WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.794 --> 00:00:28.004 Anke: Hello and welcome, Anke. 00:00:28.064 --> 00:00:30.514 I'm super happy to have you here today. 00:00:31.244 --> 00:00:31.934 Angie: Thank you. 00:00:33.774 --> 00:00:35.764 Yes, yes, the boy, yes. 00:00:37.464 --> 00:00:40.524 Anke: So why don't we start out as I always start out, let 00:00:40.524 --> 00:00:44.264 people know where you're based and so what's your business dogs? 00:00:45.994 --> 00:00:50.914 Angie: I am basically a dog parenting coach, and I'm based in Columbus, Ohio. 00:00:52.424 --> 00:00:52.804 Anke: All right. 00:00:54.604 --> 00:00:57.414 Tell me about dog parenting coach. 00:00:57.474 --> 00:00:59.414 Who do you coach, the dog or the parent? 00:01:01.094 --> 00:01:01.744 Angie: The parent. 00:01:02.944 --> 00:01:06.814 But what I coach the parent with is actually exactly how to guide your 00:01:06.814 --> 00:01:09.624 dog into happiness and good behavior. 00:01:09.724 --> 00:01:12.174 Yeah, you can't, you can't have one without the other. 00:01:12.464 --> 00:01:16.004 You know, a happy dog cannot be a well behaved dog and a well behaved dog 00:01:16.114 --> 00:01:18.064 will not be happy unless you have both. 00:01:20.254 --> 00:01:26.004 Anke: So what's the biggest mistake you feel people make that leads 00:01:26.014 --> 00:01:30.094 to, you know, problem behaviors or frustration on both ends of the leash? 00:01:31.674 --> 00:01:35.174 Angie: The main concept when we're looking at a big picture, and I've been doing this 00:01:35.174 --> 00:01:38.304 for so many decades that, you know, I've gotten to the nitty gritty and all the 00:01:38.304 --> 00:01:42.964 way to the big picture, um, which is what I cover in my book, Don't Train Your Dog. 00:01:43.244 --> 00:01:50.294 So the biggest problem and the biggest misunderstanding is viewing dogs from 00:01:50.294 --> 00:01:56.264 a dog training, training an animal type perspective, as opposed to 00:01:56.534 --> 00:02:03.134 parenting an emotional, intellectual, emotionally entangled family member. 00:02:04.374 --> 00:02:11.234 So the, the, it, it, the mistakes happen when you view them as you're trying to 00:02:12.084 --> 00:02:13.734 train a wild or domesticated animal. 00:02:13.974 --> 00:02:17.794 Because we, we, we're living with them in our homes as part of our families. 00:02:17.934 --> 00:02:19.104 They are part of our families. 00:02:19.434 --> 00:02:22.464 Um, and so we, what's missing is being able to teach them. 00:02:23.304 --> 00:02:28.404 Modern family life skills that they need in order to be happy and well behaved. 00:02:28.994 --> 00:02:31.134 And you don't get those with dog training. 00:02:32.284 --> 00:02:35.184 Anke: So what's the biggest difference in the, in the approach 00:02:35.224 --> 00:02:41.194 between, you know, dog training and, um, you know, and teaching my dog 00:02:41.224 --> 00:02:43.494 to, to live in a human household. 00:02:44.914 --> 00:02:48.154 Angie: I think the easiest way to explain it is that dog 00:02:48.164 --> 00:02:50.704 training is for teaching tricks. 00:02:51.224 --> 00:02:51.614 Okay. 00:02:51.614 --> 00:02:55.004 So it's sit for a treat, go to the spot for a treat. 00:02:55.444 --> 00:02:55.964 Off. 00:02:56.369 --> 00:02:59.279 Down, you know, those kind of things, right, for a treat. 00:02:59.769 --> 00:03:02.209 Or then you've got the harsh, super harsh, obedience. 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:10.179 So it's dog training equates to either a philosophy of fear in equals reaction out, 00:03:10.379 --> 00:03:13.529 or food in equals reaction out, right? 00:03:13.619 --> 00:03:17.349 But really, you're, that's, it's, that's like treating your dog like a simpleton. 00:03:17.609 --> 00:03:20.669 They're so much more capable of so much more than that. 00:03:20.979 --> 00:03:23.249 And they have evolved to be. 00:03:23.739 --> 00:03:28.989 Entangled with us, you know, I mean, studies show that dogs are born to 00:03:28.989 --> 00:03:33.529 look to us for guidance, to look to us, to read our facial expressions, 00:03:33.529 --> 00:03:37.629 to read our eye movements, finger pointing, to locate objects, right? 00:03:37.629 --> 00:03:38.799 And so they've already got it. 00:03:38.809 --> 00:03:39.519 They're born with it. 00:03:39.529 --> 00:03:40.329 They don't learn that. 00:03:40.349 --> 00:03:41.829 They're born with it, right? 00:03:41.829 --> 00:03:45.819 So now that gives you a clue that we're entangled with them, right? 00:03:45.819 --> 00:03:47.369 They're born entangled to us. 00:03:47.579 --> 00:03:50.479 So now you take them and then you, and then you're essentially pushing them out. 00:03:51.139 --> 00:03:54.029 And treating them like, you know, a wild or domesticated 00:03:54.029 --> 00:03:55.019 animal that you're training. 00:03:55.019 --> 00:03:58.869 Instead of using, they know exactly how to use that entanglement to communicate 00:03:58.869 --> 00:04:02.659 with us, but we don't know that because we're so, we've been taught this dog 00:04:02.689 --> 00:04:04.329 training mentality all our lives. 00:04:05.764 --> 00:04:06.834 Anke: That makes so much sense. 00:04:06.834 --> 00:04:09.764 It makes, like, it reminds me of like little Leo there. 00:04:10.134 --> 00:04:14.994 He, like, he was like, yeah, I was like, well, you're way too smart for this 00:04:15.294 --> 00:04:19.254 because he would do kind of anything. 00:04:19.254 --> 00:04:23.564 I asked him when he would see the sense of it, like he literally 00:04:23.574 --> 00:04:27.184 could see his little face, you know, when there was a treat, he'd do it. 00:04:27.224 --> 00:04:31.644 But like, if I asked him to sit, for example, he'd look at me and be like. 00:04:32.154 --> 00:04:32.574 Why? 00:04:33.004 --> 00:04:35.694 You know, and if it made sense to him, then he'd do it. 00:04:35.744 --> 00:04:38.614 If he goes, well, I don't know, you're just making me jumping up and down, 00:04:38.614 --> 00:04:40.104 that makes no sense, he wouldn't do it. 00:04:40.324 --> 00:04:44.614 So there was always, I kind of got a sense for like, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot 00:04:44.684 --> 00:04:48.424 more to, to him than, than meets the eye. 00:04:48.704 --> 00:04:52.444 So what's one to do instead? 00:04:52.444 --> 00:04:52.994 Well, 00:04:53.574 --> 00:04:56.854 Angie: so you're exactly right when you say it needs to make sense to them, 00:04:56.984 --> 00:04:58.784 because that's how dogs see things. 00:04:58.784 --> 00:05:01.694 And that's what I explain in the book, is that. 00:05:04.064 --> 00:05:07.344 Learning how to communicate with them in a way that makes sense to them, you 00:05:07.344 --> 00:05:12.834 know, not make sense to us as in treat, sit, you know, all this, this stuff. 00:05:12.834 --> 00:05:14.924 I'm not saying you never disagree with them, you guide them. 00:05:15.164 --> 00:05:18.234 No, not this, but yes, this, but there's a way you do it. 00:05:18.594 --> 00:05:21.364 And it has to make sense to them, or they don't get it. 00:05:21.734 --> 00:05:25.244 So then you're wasting your time, you're confusing them, the per the human gets 00:05:25.244 --> 00:05:30.064 frustrated, the dog gets confused and scared a lot of the time, um, but if 00:05:30.074 --> 00:05:34.124 things make sense to them according to their natural wiring, and that's how my 00:05:34.124 --> 00:05:37.574 recipes and prescriptions are approached, if it makes sense to them their national 00:05:37.574 --> 00:05:40.294 wi natural wiring, then they got it. 00:05:40.674 --> 00:05:46.124 When it ca it causes anxiety when people are asking them to do things in a way 00:05:46.134 --> 00:05:49.404 that makes no sense to them according to their natural wiring or according to 00:05:49.404 --> 00:05:51.294 mother nature, what they've been given. 00:05:52.744 --> 00:05:56.634 Anke: So, I mean, that's really funny because like Mrs, Mrs. 00:05:56.634 --> 00:06:01.714 Mastiff here, you know, has these very, you know, like she's a guard dog and boy, 00:06:01.714 --> 00:06:05.624 you know, it's like, it's really like her natural wiring is really prominent. 00:06:05.634 --> 00:06:10.184 Like when she takes her work so seriously, so, and you can't tell 00:06:10.184 --> 00:06:13.244 her not to, not to guard, you know? 00:06:13.364 --> 00:06:17.304 So it's that piece of, Hey, let's go in, okay. 00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:19.539 No, she'll come in. 00:06:19.549 --> 00:06:23.599 Like, if you try and kind of yell at her, not to, not to bark, she'll 00:06:23.599 --> 00:06:24.709 go like, what are you saying? 00:06:24.709 --> 00:06:27.309 Like, don't you see that I've got work to do here, right? 00:06:27.569 --> 00:06:32.249 So it's like, she's reacting quite differently from what the other 00:06:32.249 --> 00:06:33.429 two who are different breeds. 00:06:33.569 --> 00:06:35.829 Like, that's really, yeah. 00:06:35.869 --> 00:06:36.879 So, it's like all kids. 00:06:37.979 --> 00:06:38.369 Yeah. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:38.609 Yeah. 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:39.149 All 00:06:39.189 --> 00:06:41.759 Angie: kids are different, you know, but you can still, but there's some, still 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.309 some parenting philosophies that work. 00:06:44.864 --> 00:06:45.924 Pretty much across the board. 00:06:45.924 --> 00:06:48.864 Yes, you've got, you know, a strong willed and then you've 00:06:48.864 --> 00:06:50.154 got, you know, of human children. 00:06:50.354 --> 00:06:53.874 Well, dogs come with their own wiring too, but they're simpler, you know, they're 00:06:53.874 --> 00:06:57.424 more simple in their philosophies in life and like, well, philosophies, you know 00:06:57.424 --> 00:07:01.334 what I mean, by their view of life, um, and their view of their, their current 00:07:01.344 --> 00:07:05.584 daily life and their current families and environments are everything to them. 00:07:06.014 --> 00:07:09.589 And so when something's not according to what makes sense to them, it 00:07:09.589 --> 00:07:11.689 causes them great anxiety, right? 00:07:11.729 --> 00:07:14.939 And then you're seeing they're not understanding it, then you're seeing 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:19.129 this aggression or whatever, but you can, or mostly fear and aggression, 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.379 but you can guide your dogs. 00:07:21.379 --> 00:07:25.529 And what we do at Parenting for Dogs is guide your dogs and with 00:07:25.529 --> 00:07:30.799 these recipes and prescriptions into saying, yes, I, you know, a 00:07:30.799 --> 00:07:32.899 dog has a reaction to guard, right? 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:37.724 And only really in essence, A, uh, an action can truly replace 00:07:37.724 --> 00:07:39.134 another action for a dog. 00:07:39.374 --> 00:07:39.464 Yes. 00:07:39.464 --> 00:07:42.584 So you have to say, no, I don't want you to do this at this time, but 00:07:42.584 --> 00:07:43.934 here's what I do want you to do. 00:07:44.054 --> 00:07:45.314 But it has to make sense. 00:07:45.374 --> 00:07:48.404 It has to be a lateral move to them if you, if that makes sense. 00:07:48.404 --> 00:07:49.274 Mm-Hmm. 00:07:49.455 --> 00:07:52.574 . See, it can't just be, Hey, I want you to just sit there and not move for a second. 00:07:52.694 --> 00:07:52.934 You know? 00:07:52.934 --> 00:07:54.224 Or don't move a muscle. 00:07:54.824 --> 00:07:57.784 under, under this dress, or you know, here's a treat, here's a 00:07:57.784 --> 00:08:00.244 treat, they don't care about it, they're just still, they're, the 00:08:00.284 --> 00:08:01.934 urge to bark or whatever is smart. 00:08:02.354 --> 00:08:05.364 I like my dogs to bark, but I want to show them, bark when you go to 00:08:05.364 --> 00:08:08.984 the door, and then when I say, I'll be done, then that's enough barking. 00:08:09.174 --> 00:08:14.424 And dogs have the ability to make choices, to um, come up with ideas themselves, 00:08:14.434 --> 00:08:17.184 and everything, they're just not given that chance, and people aren't seeing it, 00:08:17.444 --> 00:08:22.184 because you cannot see the true ability of a dog, In a group training class, a 00:08:22.184 --> 00:08:25.834 laboratory, or anything, you can only see those things and those modern skills 00:08:25.834 --> 00:08:30.454 for family life can only be taught in a family environment when they're connected 00:08:30.824 --> 00:08:33.294 to a human that they trust and respect. 00:08:34.224 --> 00:08:34.534 Both. 00:08:34.534 --> 00:08:37.384 Then you see the full potential. 00:08:37.634 --> 00:08:42.184 Anke: Yes, and I think what I hear you say is that we massively underestimate them. 00:08:43.084 --> 00:08:49.324 And I think almost by asking them to do stuff that doesn't make sense, 00:08:50.004 --> 00:08:53.944 especially if you come from like training and sit and plot and treat 00:08:53.974 --> 00:08:55.534 and whatever, you know, like if you go, 00:08:58.164 --> 00:09:05.464 would it be fair to say that they don't really feel heard and understood, which 00:09:05.524 --> 00:09:07.544 probably impacts how much they trust us? 00:09:08.784 --> 00:09:12.884 Angie: Well, um, yes, they have to respect us, and in order to do that, 00:09:12.884 --> 00:09:15.664 you have to be able to communicate with them in a way that makes sense to them, 00:09:15.694 --> 00:09:19.574 that, you know, relax here, I've got this, we're fine, you know, everybody's 00:09:19.574 --> 00:09:24.424 fine, relax, um, that you're confident and firm, but with the prescriptions 00:09:24.424 --> 00:09:28.184 and the recipes, it's almost like Once you see him, you're like, everybody 00:09:28.184 --> 00:09:31.774 becomes confident because you're like, oh, I see the results of it immediately. 00:09:31.774 --> 00:09:35.024 And then, and then the parent becomes confident. 00:09:35.744 --> 00:09:39.284 And then, but the dog doesn't, what you're seeing is more like, it's not 00:09:39.284 --> 00:09:40.894 like, oh, she's underestimating me. 00:09:41.174 --> 00:09:45.834 But in dog terms, it's more like, in dog world, it's more like, she's, 00:09:46.004 --> 00:09:47.484 um, that's not making sense to me. 00:09:47.484 --> 00:09:48.674 She shouldn't be doing that. 00:09:48.734 --> 00:09:49.924 And now I'm confused. 00:09:50.204 --> 00:09:53.034 And now I thought maybe since I'm confused, I thought maybe she meant 00:09:53.034 --> 00:09:54.954 something else and she didn't, and that doesn't make sense to me. 00:09:54.954 --> 00:09:56.144 And now I'm get frightened. 00:09:56.554 --> 00:09:58.594 Maybe I get frightened of her, okay? 00:09:58.594 --> 00:10:00.964 Maybe I get frightened of something that was, you know, just happened 00:10:00.964 --> 00:10:02.424 to be happening at the same time. 00:10:02.884 --> 00:10:08.934 Um, it, it feels like, you know, this is sounding elaborate, but it's really 00:10:08.984 --> 00:10:13.194 very simple and like, once you just get it down to the, what I call the five, 00:10:13.694 --> 00:10:18.184 five big stuff rules that we want dogs to con that I concentrate on teaching 00:10:18.184 --> 00:10:23.604 dogs for modern family life, um, And then add that to that and balance 00:10:23.604 --> 00:10:25.004 that out with the full fulfillment. 00:10:25.454 --> 00:10:29.924 You know, that any kind of guidance you give, no, not this, but yes, this, as 00:10:29.924 --> 00:10:35.694 long as it's given in an emotionally, emotionally neutral state, then dogs 00:10:35.744 --> 00:10:40.874 understand it and then they, they accept it and they can understand it. 00:10:40.874 --> 00:10:45.034 And there's, you don't flip into fight or flight and you don't flip into them 00:10:45.044 --> 00:10:46.584 just ignoring you and brushing you off. 00:10:46.594 --> 00:10:48.744 Cause you, cause you're, you know, of no consequence. 00:10:49.104 --> 00:10:51.614 You've got that parenting sweet spot. 00:10:51.614 --> 00:10:55.234 Anke: I mean, it's like funny, like it feels like it's not that 00:10:55.234 --> 00:10:56.664 different from parenting kids, right? 00:10:57.464 --> 00:10:59.564 So what are the five house rules? 00:11:01.004 --> 00:11:04.804 Angie: Well, the five big, and I do want to say first, it is like parenting 00:11:04.804 --> 00:11:12.054 kids, because once I've done this for decades and decades and I've fixed My 00:11:12.054 --> 00:11:15.594 skills and my knowledge has come from just being, working with the worst of 00:11:15.594 --> 00:11:19.804 the worst cases, like fixing unfixable dogs that were, you know, giving up, 00:11:19.854 --> 00:11:26.794 giving up for, um, euthanasia or, you know, just nobody can handle them. 00:11:26.794 --> 00:11:27.814 Nobody can be in. 00:11:27.874 --> 00:11:30.204 And so when you start with that bad, that all the other just 00:11:30.204 --> 00:11:33.534 normal daily life things are teaching dogs gets, gets simple. 00:11:33.914 --> 00:11:35.594 Cause it, cause you did the worst of the worst. 00:11:35.814 --> 00:11:37.564 And then I did it for years and years and years. 00:11:37.814 --> 00:11:39.304 And so I finally realized that. 00:11:39.619 --> 00:11:44.799 I am comfortable and it is accurate to say I'm parenting the dogs because I had two, 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:46.939 two boys I was parenting at the same time. 00:11:46.969 --> 00:11:52.469 I realize I'm parenting them both because my definition of parenting is providing 00:11:52.659 --> 00:12:00.849 love, guidance, um, love and guidance to vulnerable members of a family, right? 00:12:01.009 --> 00:12:03.489 So that includes, that includes them, right? 00:12:03.569 --> 00:12:05.529 But here's where the rubber meets the road. 00:12:06.249 --> 00:12:10.029 Um, you want to give this love, support and guidance to both. 00:12:11.644 --> 00:12:13.854 But the way you give it to dogs is completely different than you 00:12:13.854 --> 00:12:16.764 give it to kids, and that's where the misunderstandings happen. 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:20.169 Anke: Okay, so what should we do then? 00:12:21.699 --> 00:12:24.619 Well, give us, give us like a one off little recipe, like give 00:12:24.619 --> 00:12:26.029 us a bit of a taste, you know? 00:12:26.659 --> 00:12:30.799 Angie: Okay, so um, it's, it's hard because even in the, in the book we talk 00:12:30.809 --> 00:12:35.269 about how the first read on the book, which is basically a workbook, but it's, 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:36.769 you know, it's got everything in it. 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:40.649 It's got, you know, family stories and life stories with dogs and, and 00:12:40.689 --> 00:12:44.959 humor and, you know, the things that you, you, you come across with just in 00:12:45.069 --> 00:12:47.139 living with dogs and these incredible. 00:12:48.014 --> 00:12:51.444 species that they are and that they picked us to be entangled with, 00:12:51.614 --> 00:12:54.054 which is, you know, a privilege. 00:12:54.534 --> 00:12:58.904 So I'm saying we want to, you know, treat that privilege correctly by 00:12:58.954 --> 00:13:03.914 teaching them rules that they can, um, use in modern family life so that they 00:13:03.924 --> 00:13:06.874 don't lose their home, they don't bite kids, they don't do all these things 00:13:06.894 --> 00:13:10.174 that they're only doing these things because they just don't understand what 00:13:10.174 --> 00:13:14.424 you're trying to teach them because dog training does not work in their mind. 00:13:14.424 --> 00:13:15.384 It teaches them tricks. 00:13:15.844 --> 00:13:20.764 So the five big stuff rules that I focus on is number one, no aggression, 00:13:21.444 --> 00:13:25.714 um, no teeth on humans because we accidentally have them touch us with 00:13:25.714 --> 00:13:29.974 their teeth and then they get bigger or something happens and then, then 00:13:29.974 --> 00:13:31.204 you're like, oh, don't bite me. 00:13:31.494 --> 00:13:34.184 Well, it's like, we've just been teaching them to bite us the whole time because we 00:13:34.214 --> 00:13:37.094 just allowed them to put their teeth on our hands and we were playing with them, 00:13:37.104 --> 00:13:38.334 playing with their mouth or whatever. 00:13:38.334 --> 00:13:40.124 That's extremely unfair. 00:13:40.424 --> 00:13:44.334 Right now we're saying, oh, don't bite, you know, or people teach, teach. 00:13:45.489 --> 00:13:50.239 Parents teach dogs to sit for a treat and then they're like, yeah, it's working. 00:13:50.249 --> 00:13:51.229 Look how smart he is. 00:13:51.619 --> 00:13:52.039 Right. 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.599 And, and then they try to teach them not to bite a kid with the same way. 00:13:56.609 --> 00:13:57.339 All right. 00:13:57.339 --> 00:14:01.259 And then, then, then it goes downhill very quickly and the dog ends up losing its 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:05.409 family and its home through no fault of its own because they thought they could 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:09.009 teach family safety rules the same way they taught the tricks and nothing could 00:14:09.019 --> 00:14:12.109 be farther from the truth, you know? 00:14:12.129 --> 00:14:15.099 So, but you asked me, what is one example? 00:14:15.839 --> 00:14:16.439 Yeah, sorry. 00:14:16.439 --> 00:14:17.199 I'm sorry. 00:14:17.199 --> 00:14:17.509 I'll go. 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.309 I'll go off the board on dogs all day long. 00:14:19.779 --> 00:14:20.239 I love it. 00:14:20.239 --> 00:14:20.719 Anke: I love it. 00:14:22.949 --> 00:14:27.129 Angie: Um, so one of the recipes, for example, is 00:14:29.489 --> 00:14:30.969 The What's Not Allowed recipe. 00:14:31.529 --> 00:14:36.739 So it doesn't, you can't involve treats in the What's Not Allowed recipe, right? 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:41.179 So, you know, you go out of your way other times and, and for other things to catch 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:44.889 them having good behavior to, to when they stop doing something you ask them not 00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:49.679 to do and, and, and did the right thing, you over praise them then, super excited. 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.919 There's certain times you can use excitement voice, certain 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.569 times you use treats, but in the What's Not Allowed, you can't. 00:14:54.859 --> 00:14:57.629 And part of it is you're not getting enough eye contact with the dog. 00:14:57.629 --> 00:15:02.624 So that recipe involves You know, um, stopping the behavior, how to stop 00:15:02.624 --> 00:15:06.574 the behavior with a neutral mindset, perfectly calm because I know the 00:15:06.574 --> 00:15:07.754 recipe so I don't have to panic. 00:15:08.189 --> 00:15:09.189 I know I'm gonna do. 00:15:09.609 --> 00:15:13.599 Um, I, you can even parents stop panicking about when their dog's gonna do something 00:15:13.609 --> 00:15:16.919 because they know here I'm watching the behavior, which we explain in the book, 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.569 look for this, look for this little behavior, look for this, you know, the 00:15:20.569 --> 00:15:24.319 way they turn their head like this, or they move a paw like this, or, you know, 00:15:24.349 --> 00:15:25.999 I teach how to look for those things. 00:15:26.339 --> 00:15:28.729 As soon as you see those, and that's called seeing the guidance moment. 00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:31.369 That's when you know you gotta step in and provide the guidance. 00:15:32.144 --> 00:15:36.834 This guidance says no, in a way that dogs can understand, which is, you know, it 00:15:36.834 --> 00:15:38.024 kind of has to be built on in the book. 00:15:38.344 --> 00:15:39.994 No, I don't want you to do this. 00:15:40.564 --> 00:15:42.944 Okay, and then a little bit of eye contact for just one second, 00:15:42.944 --> 00:15:45.594 1 1000, just let it sink in, okay? 00:15:45.854 --> 00:15:49.434 Because it's not this distraction, you can't just distract them at that point 00:15:49.434 --> 00:15:51.404 with something they don't learn, okay? 00:15:51.614 --> 00:15:55.224 So, it's the eye contact because you have this relationship with them, because they 00:15:55.224 --> 00:15:58.664 trust and respect you, you're not going overboard, you're emotionally neutral, 00:15:58.864 --> 00:16:02.534 get the eye contact and then say, we don't, so that you say, we don't, we 00:16:02.534 --> 00:16:05.874 don't ever do that, but here's what we can do, and then you immediately switch 00:16:05.874 --> 00:16:09.124 to the, it's an incomplete teaching moment not to do the what you do instead. 00:16:09.124 --> 00:16:09.404 Yes. 00:16:10.244 --> 00:16:13.974 And that doesn't, that's, people think that's being taught by distraction, like 00:16:13.974 --> 00:16:15.684 this treat with distraction, and it's not. 00:16:15.694 --> 00:16:17.454 That's why it's going off the rails. 00:16:17.614 --> 00:16:19.744 That's why your trained dog is going off the rails. 00:16:20.884 --> 00:16:21.734 Anke: That makes sense. 00:16:21.734 --> 00:16:22.304 That makes sense. 00:16:22.604 --> 00:16:30.594 So what kind of replacement behaviors, you know, especially like, okay, now let 00:16:30.634 --> 00:16:33.514 me let me use a real life example, Mrs. 00:16:33.834 --> 00:16:35.204 Guard Dog Leah, right? 00:16:35.264 --> 00:16:38.444 So she's got a front yard at night, she sits there on the porch. 00:16:39.119 --> 00:16:42.159 And, you know, she takes her job very seriously every now and then. 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:43.199 It's very cute, actually. 00:16:43.229 --> 00:16:48.309 So every now and then she comes in, she nudges everybody, like the dog, 00:16:48.729 --> 00:16:50.949 you know, people, everybody here. 00:16:50.999 --> 00:16:51.509 Okay. 00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:53.189 So I can kind of go sit there. 00:16:53.489 --> 00:16:56.769 And then all of a sudden she will charge the door because she 00:16:56.769 --> 00:16:58.289 obviously, she heard something. 00:16:58.629 --> 00:16:58.899 Right. 00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:04.179 So now when she alerts, well, fair enough, you know, obviously that's your, 00:17:04.179 --> 00:17:05.969 that's what you can do your job fine. 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:07.529 But it's almost like. 00:17:08.399 --> 00:17:13.469 When it gets like you kind of ramping yourself up, you know, when she gets like, 00:17:14.389 --> 00:17:18.629 and I'm like, if I want to step in and say, okay, I've got you, you know, like 00:17:18.659 --> 00:17:20.529 you're good now, you've done your job. 00:17:20.879 --> 00:17:22.199 It's my job now. 00:17:22.439 --> 00:17:26.729 So if I'm standing there sort of in the front yard, You know, what 00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.709 kind of replacement behavior could, I mean, could I, could I offer? 00:17:30.709 --> 00:17:34.159 And I do, in my experience, treats don't, like, when they're excited, the 00:17:34.159 --> 00:17:35.449 treat's the last thing on their mind. 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:36.919 Like, she won't even want it. 00:17:37.249 --> 00:17:40.939 So I perfectly, you know, love that you're saying, like, treat's 00:17:40.999 --> 00:17:42.439 not your answer for everything. 00:17:42.749 --> 00:17:47.630 So, you know, how can I, So, um, you know, you have to be able to communicate 00:17:47.630 --> 00:17:48.915 effectively that you've done your job 00:17:48.915 --> 00:17:50.413 Angie: and you can kind of go now. 00:17:50.413 --> 00:17:50.842 Right, right. 00:17:50.842 --> 00:17:55.674 I can tell you have experience with dogs because, you know, you 00:17:55.674 --> 00:17:58.244 understand that there's these subtleties that come in, right? 00:17:58.254 --> 00:18:00.874 You see all the subtleties and those things have to be addressed, okay? 00:18:01.154 --> 00:18:05.114 But it's so much easier than you think and it really is, you know, dogs see things 00:18:05.114 --> 00:18:07.134 in a very black and white way, right? 00:18:07.134 --> 00:18:09.484 Things are always allowed or never allowed, okay? 00:18:09.484 --> 00:18:11.724 And that's when you get to the safety rules or the five big 00:18:11.734 --> 00:18:13.494 safety rules I'm telling you about. 00:18:13.704 --> 00:18:15.184 That's, uh, this is never allowed. 00:18:15.609 --> 00:18:15.909 Right? 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:20.809 The thing you're talking about is, if you want your dog to bark at the door when 00:18:20.809 --> 00:18:25.369 somebody comes, or to do that, first, you're correct, the dogs come in and like, 00:18:25.399 --> 00:18:28.799 that's when they're always like, that's how you're addressing separation anxiety 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.959 too, is to understand that like, when you come back and to understand what drives 00:18:31.959 --> 00:18:33.979 them on that, that's how you fix that. 00:18:34.129 --> 00:18:37.459 But she's coming in and checking to make sure everybody in the family is here. 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:39.509 We're all together, because that's what they want. 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:40.569 They want it to be all together. 00:18:40.639 --> 00:18:43.119 We have to teach them that sometimes we leave, and then sometimes we 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:44.379 come back, and to be fine with that. 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:46.359 But they want us to all be together. 00:18:46.419 --> 00:18:47.459 So she's checking. 00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:50.919 So she really does believe that that's her job, is to check to make 00:18:50.919 --> 00:18:54.869 sure everybody's here, and then to confront any dangers or strangers. 00:18:55.749 --> 00:18:59.469 So what you have to communicate to her is, listen, either you 00:18:59.469 --> 00:19:00.639 want her to do that or you don't. 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.339 I don't want him to do that because that causes problems, right? 00:19:03.339 --> 00:19:06.579 I do want him to bark at the door, um, which is a little bit different 00:19:06.579 --> 00:19:09.369 because that's the hybrid, almost like a hybrid trick because I do 00:19:09.369 --> 00:19:12.999 involve a treat in that that I teach in the book to say, bark, bark, bark. 00:19:12.999 --> 00:19:13.889 Yes, go ahead and bark. 00:19:13.889 --> 00:19:17.614 But now when I say, all done, Then I give a treat for that, right? 00:19:17.624 --> 00:19:20.524 So that one does, once they're calm, I give a treat. 00:19:20.544 --> 00:19:24.594 Not when they're barking, you know, not in the middle of it, right? 00:19:24.594 --> 00:19:27.894 When they've understood, I said, that's enough, you can stop now. 00:19:28.124 --> 00:19:31.014 You know, I have, you can have the patience when you're sure 00:19:31.014 --> 00:19:33.494 about what you're doing, ask the person at the door, sorry, we're 00:19:33.494 --> 00:19:36.769 having a training moment, just one moment, everybody's happy to help. 00:19:36.979 --> 00:19:39.279 But you're trying to rush to the door and get it normally and that 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.149 causes all the, you don't get to address or do your guidance or 00:19:42.149 --> 00:19:44.769 do your parenting because you're stressed about getting the door open. 00:19:45.169 --> 00:19:49.669 But really, if you pre think these things like it says in the book, you're calm. 00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:53.349 You go there and you say, Nope, hold on just one second, just, Doing a little, 00:19:53.389 --> 00:19:57.029 we're learning something here, learning some skills and then address them 00:19:57.059 --> 00:20:00.519 when you get them completely stopped without eye contact, then all done 00:20:00.549 --> 00:20:01.689 and then you can give them a treat. 00:20:01.699 --> 00:20:05.219 So that teaches them from then on later, you do that few repetitions and then 00:20:05.219 --> 00:20:08.729 when you say they run to the door, bark, bark, bark, you say all done 00:20:08.869 --> 00:20:09.999 when they do and then they go back. 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:13.739 for their treat, you know, so that's a little pseudo one where there is a, 00:20:13.749 --> 00:20:15.369 there is a treat involved in that one. 00:20:15.739 --> 00:20:20.129 The bigger concept of what you're talking about being outside is that you would have 00:20:20.129 --> 00:20:24.139 to step between her and the, the person or the stranger, what I'm just like, ah, 00:20:24.159 --> 00:20:28.199 I don't, I don't need, I don't, I don't need you to protect me in that way, right? 00:20:28.239 --> 00:20:31.489 I, I, I protect our family so you can relax. 00:20:31.679 --> 00:20:33.039 It gives her more relaxation. 00:20:33.239 --> 00:20:36.419 It gives her be able to, she can see that she's off duty. 00:20:36.964 --> 00:20:37.274 Right? 00:20:37.274 --> 00:20:40.324 And so you have to be very clear showing them that you can be off duty 00:20:40.324 --> 00:20:45.394 on this, I take care of this, I make sure everybody's fine, you know, every, 00:20:45.464 --> 00:20:50.014 you know, no, no, no family members are hurting other family members because I 00:20:50.014 --> 00:20:53.104 make sure everybody's fine, you know, so that that's what they need to understand. 00:20:53.584 --> 00:20:57.134 And if they trust and respect you, then they'll understand, understand that. 00:20:57.134 --> 00:21:00.394 When you say, I'll handle this, right? 00:21:00.394 --> 00:21:00.454 Yeah. 00:21:00.754 --> 00:21:01.624 I mean, that makes so 00:21:01.624 --> 00:21:02.404 Anke: much sense. 00:21:02.649 --> 00:21:02.939 Angie: Yeah. 00:21:03.554 --> 00:21:06.164 So, but when you're afraid of a child or something, there's a 00:21:06.164 --> 00:21:11.964 whole, um, dog, you know, kind kids and confident canines recipe. 00:21:12.174 --> 00:21:12.474 Right. 00:21:12.474 --> 00:21:13.164 So it, it's. 00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:16.449 It's not exactly what people think it is because they think, Oh, I'm going 00:21:16.449 --> 00:21:18.539 to teach my kids to respect my dog. 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:20.449 It's, I'm not going to let them hurt my dog. 00:21:20.689 --> 00:21:21.939 And then, and vice versa. 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:23.449 But it's not as simple as that. 00:21:23.449 --> 00:21:25.679 It doesn't work that way because the dog has a different view 00:21:25.679 --> 00:21:27.269 of what is, what is happening. 00:21:27.479 --> 00:21:29.929 And the child has a different view of what's happening or a child may 00:21:29.929 --> 00:21:32.999 be a baby and can't do anything for itself, a toddler, you know? 00:21:32.999 --> 00:21:34.849 So that's a bigger subject. 00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:37.539 And I do just discuss exactly how to fix that, exactly how to 00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:38.799 make that relationship happen. 00:21:39.349 --> 00:21:42.934 But, I would say, for example, a substitute behavior like 00:21:42.934 --> 00:21:43.994 you were asking about. 00:21:44.624 --> 00:21:47.974 Um, you know, we're not gonna, you know, don't need to be scared. 00:21:48.164 --> 00:21:52.354 We're not afraid, we're not, you know, aggressive at anything around those kids. 00:21:52.774 --> 00:21:53.554 I don't want that. 00:21:53.964 --> 00:21:55.304 But I went, here's what I want you to do. 00:21:55.464 --> 00:21:56.294 Get that toy. 00:21:56.464 --> 00:21:58.094 Like, let's play with that toy around the kids. 00:21:58.104 --> 00:22:00.084 And then, but you have to get the toy and play with it. 00:22:00.104 --> 00:22:01.594 Like, it's the best thing you've ever done. 00:22:02.034 --> 00:22:02.244 Yeah. 00:22:02.244 --> 00:22:03.804 With the doll, right? 00:22:03.834 --> 00:22:06.174 And then there's this good girl playing with that instead. 00:22:06.474 --> 00:22:08.774 And then pretty soon you start seeing the choice being made. 00:22:09.129 --> 00:22:12.529 Where, when the kids start playing or getting rowdy, instead of them 00:22:13.939 --> 00:22:16.879 being afraid, then they run and get their toy and play over on the side. 00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:21.909 Or, you know, there's just so many, so many things in the book, it's hard 00:22:21.909 --> 00:22:23.339 to, it's hard to get into all of them. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.329 Anke: Do you, do you have a copy there that you can just kind of hold 00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:26.449 Angie: up? 00:22:26.889 --> 00:22:29.679 You know what, I just, the book just came out yesterday, I was just 00:22:29.679 --> 00:22:32.659 thinking this, and I was like, I gave away my last physical copy. 00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:33.839 Oh, my lord. 00:22:34.689 --> 00:22:37.159 This is the front cover, the picture of it. 00:22:37.219 --> 00:22:38.379 It's called Don't Train Your Dog. 00:22:38.379 --> 00:22:45.389 It's at Amazon now, of course, but um, our website is parentingfordogs. 00:22:45.389 --> 00:22:47.749 com with a number four, parentingfordogs. 00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:48.449 com. 00:22:48.979 --> 00:22:50.099 So I'm 00:22:50.169 --> 00:22:52.319 Anke: just going to have to kind of go get that right now because 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.019 I'm totally intrigued because a lot of the stuff I actually, um, 00:22:59.489 --> 00:23:02.729 I'm like, yeah, that's kind of like, that's my experience because when 00:23:02.729 --> 00:23:06.729 I go with those two big girls, when I'm out, That's exactly what I do. 00:23:06.729 --> 00:23:10.859 It's like when there's sort of another dog or somebody's coming and I will 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:14.169 just kind of literally like no, you go over here and I've just got a, I'm 00:23:14.169 --> 00:23:18.959 between them and they go, okay, whatever, you know, so it's like, I've got you. 00:23:19.289 --> 00:23:24.879 This is like, I don't, you know, so it's, it's, um, It's just like when 00:23:24.879 --> 00:23:29.659 they actually hear and they sort of hear something like another dog outside. 00:23:29.699 --> 00:23:33.439 It's almost like when there's nobody inside, you know, so it's that, it's 00:23:33.449 --> 00:23:37.839 that, um, yeah, but I'm sort of now really curious, like this is really 00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:41.679 interesting because now I'm kind of really curious to find out, you know, 00:23:41.679 --> 00:23:43.799 what are the signals that I'm missing? 00:23:43.819 --> 00:23:45.029 And actually the other one is. 00:23:45.254 --> 00:23:48.984 Is she, like, I always have a toy with me. 00:23:48.984 --> 00:23:53.304 I never take treats because none, neither of them are interested in treats on walks. 00:23:53.304 --> 00:23:53.544 Right. 00:23:53.694 --> 00:23:54.864 But I always have a toy. 00:23:55.714 --> 00:23:55.814 Right. 00:23:55.814 --> 00:23:59.384 Because like this other one, she is literally, when she gets 00:23:59.384 --> 00:24:04.244 excited, first thing she does, she turns around and grabs the toy. 00:24:04.314 --> 00:24:07.544 So that's like, you know, that's what I taught her when she was little. 00:24:07.544 --> 00:24:08.984 And that's what she does to this day. 00:24:09.304 --> 00:24:13.044 You know, her reaction is get the toy. 00:24:13.044 --> 00:24:14.004 So it's really easy. 00:24:14.004 --> 00:24:18.549 And then And I can almost gauge her excitement level by how she, if she's 00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:21.809 like, uh, okay, so she's not even excited. 00:24:22.029 --> 00:24:24.569 If she's really excited, she just fully goes for it. 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:24.819 Right. 00:24:24.819 --> 00:24:27.779 But it's like, you can level her, you can gauge her excitement level. 00:24:28.229 --> 00:24:32.589 And it's also really easy to, to re, to redirect because she'll go for 00:24:32.619 --> 00:24:37.439 the toy and then whatever the cat or whatever kind of excites her, it's 00:24:37.439 --> 00:24:38.788 just like no longer of interest. 00:24:38.788 --> 00:24:38.986 Right. 00:24:38.986 --> 00:24:39.184 Right. 00:24:39.624 --> 00:24:43.064 Angie: Right, so what, so you saw a piece of what I'm talking about, right? 00:24:43.074 --> 00:24:46.584 So you're, you're, like a lot of people who have worked with dogs and, you know, 00:24:46.584 --> 00:24:48.764 a lot of people have their hearts in the right place saying, you know, I'm going 00:24:48.764 --> 00:24:50.944 to just distract them or try to give them a treat all the time and those are 00:24:50.944 --> 00:24:55.044 involved, but the timing of when you're doing those and, and, and expecting those 00:24:55.054 --> 00:24:59.419 to do it solely by themselves, treats and distractions by themselves will not do it. 00:25:00.259 --> 00:25:05.389 Fear and harsh obedience will not do it, only this, you know, parenting for dogs, 00:25:05.389 --> 00:25:07.099 mental guidance, sweet spot will do it. 00:25:07.909 --> 00:25:10.639 So you've experienced some of what I'm saying. 00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:14.059 And, and you're like, you're almost there. 00:25:14.109 --> 00:25:18.799 Like there's just like 20 percent that like, say people who have 00:25:18.879 --> 00:25:22.179 experience with dogs like you, they're, they're almost there usually. 00:25:22.199 --> 00:25:25.319 And there's about 20 percent that though is so different that it's 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.509 just, it'll put you over the edge to what you're like, Oh, okay. 00:25:28.509 --> 00:25:30.049 This has been what's missing. 00:25:30.494 --> 00:25:30.864 Right? 00:25:31.564 --> 00:25:32.724 Is when what's missing. 00:25:32.724 --> 00:25:35.304 I'm almost there and you can feel, and you can see some things work and then 00:25:35.304 --> 00:25:38.544 then they don't work and then other things don't work, but this does, why 00:25:38.544 --> 00:25:42.554 does it work on one dog and not on the other, you know, there's just 20 percent 00:25:42.554 --> 00:25:46.384 about missing from what, what you need to know to, to bring it all the way home. 00:25:46.704 --> 00:25:46.984 Right. 00:25:47.024 --> 00:25:55.564 And, and this, this, you can't find this anywhere else because I developed this. 00:25:56.234 --> 00:26:00.784 over, over 25 years that I've been working with it and I just kept 00:26:00.794 --> 00:26:02.314 constant notes and constant video. 00:26:02.314 --> 00:26:05.504 So there's a video companion, a digital companion that goes with this book. 00:26:05.724 --> 00:26:10.724 So in the introduction, you don't have to use the videos, um, but people who 00:26:10.724 --> 00:26:14.124 want to use the videos, there's a QR code and it comes free with the book and you 00:26:14.124 --> 00:26:17.174 just scan the QR code with your phone if you'd like to, if you're reading the 00:26:17.174 --> 00:26:19.574 first chapter, if you'd like to see what I talked about in the real chapter or 00:26:19.574 --> 00:26:21.264 see me doing it in real life with dogs. 00:26:21.919 --> 00:26:24.739 Um, you can go to that, or, but everything's really self contained in 00:26:24.739 --> 00:26:28.329 the book, you don't have to do that, but digital companion if people don't want to. 00:26:28.629 --> 00:26:31.879 But also there's a lot of other resources will be at the website, um, 00:26:31.889 --> 00:26:35.509 the Parenting for Dogs website too, that has like, you know, a community of, 00:26:35.669 --> 00:26:39.339 of tell your, tell your dog parenting stories and, and how you work this out. 00:26:39.339 --> 00:26:41.909 You know, I read the book and then I worked this out that I didn't have, 00:26:41.909 --> 00:26:43.579 and then that helps other dog parents. 00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:47.039 So just like parenting kids that we all learn from. 00:26:47.264 --> 00:26:49.744 What we've learned from other moms and dads. 00:26:50.354 --> 00:26:51.684 So it's like that. 00:26:51.704 --> 00:26:56.954 And, but the problem is, and the, you know, especially even after COVID, 00:26:57.014 --> 00:27:00.874 even before that, dog behavioral problems were skyrocketing, you know, 00:27:00.894 --> 00:27:04.884 and, and their dogs are being given up in record numbers to shelters. 00:27:05.729 --> 00:27:09.619 And it's all because of what's missing in this book, and so I could, had to 00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:13.029 make the book, I couldn't stop, and you know, that's why it's taken decades. 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.909 I've had videos and stuff before that, and I've been working on it 00:27:15.909 --> 00:27:19.889 forever, but now I had to exclusively go to putting everything from my, 00:27:20.189 --> 00:27:24.749 all my decades of work into this one place, so that I can finally push it 00:27:24.749 --> 00:27:26.699 over the line and get people to see. 00:27:27.379 --> 00:27:31.549 And then, and stop this problem that's happening that it's completely avoidable. 00:27:32.549 --> 00:27:34.709 Anke: I think that almost makes it worse, right? 00:27:34.709 --> 00:27:39.839 When you kind of see that it is actually fixable, you know, so it's almost like, 00:27:39.859 --> 00:27:44.369 well, then, you know, part of this conversation and any other conversations 00:27:44.369 --> 00:27:49.839 we, I hope we have, uh, to really get this in as many hands as, uh, people we 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:54.929 can, because like, you know, every dog parent who understands their dog better, 00:27:54.929 --> 00:28:01.604 you know, You know, will basically diminish or like eliminate the risk 00:28:01.704 --> 00:28:03.854 of that dog ending up in your house 00:28:04.564 --> 00:28:05.354 Angie: or kids being bit. 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.319 And, um, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's haunted me ever since I've, you know, 00:28:10.389 --> 00:28:13.349 I've, I've started, I started figuring it out and I was like, Oh man, this 00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:15.519 is just a colossal misunderstanding. 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:17.899 And we're, you know, we're seeing them from this dog training standpoint, 00:28:17.919 --> 00:28:22.379 instead of what they actually are, um, and what they're actually capable of 00:28:22.379 --> 00:28:25.679 and what they're thinking and, and, and reading us and what we're, we're, we're 00:28:25.679 --> 00:28:27.539 totally missing it on most regards. 00:28:27.879 --> 00:28:32.059 And then I see dogs just losing their homes and, and suffering and, and, and 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:33.949 dogs are paying a brutal price for this. 00:28:35.014 --> 00:28:38.514 Misunderstanding what I, what I say is like, you know, you've 00:28:38.524 --> 00:28:41.084 got the harsh obedience or would never use treats or anything. 00:28:41.084 --> 00:28:43.464 And then you've got the only treats and distractions, and then they're 00:28:43.484 --> 00:28:47.264 battling each other and all these parents are being caught in the crossfire. 00:28:47.714 --> 00:28:50.234 And so then you're afraid to make a move. 00:28:50.414 --> 00:28:54.754 And what I talk about in the book is this parental paralysis by 00:28:54.754 --> 00:28:59.534 analysis has made our, our dogs are paying a brutal price for that. 00:28:59.969 --> 00:29:00.269 Anke: Yes. 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:00.689 Angie: Right? 00:29:00.699 --> 00:29:01.559 It's not Terrence's fault. 00:29:01.589 --> 00:29:03.819 It's not our, it's not their fault because the information 00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:05.569 just not out there until now. 00:29:05.889 --> 00:29:10.399 Um, so imagine if you were in my spot and I knew I could stop it and I knew I 00:29:10.399 --> 00:29:12.899 could save all these dogs and I've been saving dogs this whole time, but now I 00:29:12.899 --> 00:29:15.079 got to save millions instead of thousands. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.429 Then, you know, I don't, I don't, I, I don't sleep at night. 00:29:19.904 --> 00:29:20.104 I bet. 00:29:20.534 --> 00:29:21.154 I bet. 00:29:22.694 --> 00:29:25.214 Anke: Yeah, I think it's It's the only reason why. 00:29:25.584 --> 00:29:29.994 Angie: You know, it's crazy to continue doing something against all odds for 28 00:29:30.274 --> 00:29:35.654 years, but if you knew you could stop this suffering you couldn't stop either, right? 00:29:35.654 --> 00:29:37.364 And I knew I could, so I couldn't stop. 00:29:38.649 --> 00:29:40.719 It's been quite the, quite the journey. 00:29:41.179 --> 00:29:44.369 Anke: I think, well, you do, it's like, I love your energy around this. 00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:45.739 And I love the passion behind it. 00:29:45.739 --> 00:29:48.349 As I'm almost like, I'm going to turn around and get that book right now. 00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:53.689 I think I would love to have you back because it's, um, you know, 00:29:53.689 --> 00:29:57.989 it's definitely, you know, the, the, the, the impact, the massive, 00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:00.339 you know, because it's, it's. 00:30:00.974 --> 00:30:05.324 The dogs are the ones on the receiving end, but I think, you know, the, the 00:30:05.654 --> 00:30:10.124 people who wanted the dog for the connection and don't manage to, to kind 00:30:10.124 --> 00:30:12.134 of find this place of understanding. 00:30:12.314 --> 00:30:14.114 So it's kind of bad for everyone, right? 00:30:14.324 --> 00:30:18.434 So it's, you know, but what's, if there is a solution, then let's make 00:30:18.434 --> 00:30:19.904 sure everybody gets their hands on it. 00:30:20.144 --> 00:30:21.494 Angie: There's absolutely a solution. 00:30:21.674 --> 00:30:22.394 Absolutely. 00:30:22.394 --> 00:30:24.404 And it's not hard what people think. 00:30:24.404 --> 00:30:27.224 There isn't just, you know, there aren't, there's no magic and mystery. 00:30:27.224 --> 00:30:29.324 It's like, it's, if you read the book and you see you're like. 00:30:30.734 --> 00:30:33.284 You know, I'm, you, you're led to believe. 00:30:34.159 --> 00:30:37.209 Like typical dog training shows and books and things like that, 00:30:37.209 --> 00:30:40.839 you know, tend to water things down and make them look easier or more 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:42.379 effective than they really are, right? 00:30:42.379 --> 00:30:45.759 Because it's a show, you know, it's entertainment, right? 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:50.129 And then the whole time it's killing me because that's not gonna help, 00:30:50.139 --> 00:30:52.209 you know, that's making you think something's, oh, well, I've got 00:30:52.209 --> 00:30:53.779 the only dog that can't be fixed. 00:30:54.049 --> 00:30:56.779 I've got the one with the problem that can't do this because everybody 00:30:56.779 --> 00:30:59.099 else seems to be able to fix it with this, when really they're not. 00:30:59.199 --> 00:31:01.819 They're struggling as much as you are as a dog parent. 00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:03.759 So that's what's. 00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:08.539 So heart wrenching about it is that, is that I'm, you know, I've watched 00:31:08.539 --> 00:31:13.179 all this happen and, and knowing that I'd be able to fix it, but you got to 00:31:13.179 --> 00:31:16.699 get it, I had to get it into a form because it's got to be easy enough. 00:31:16.779 --> 00:31:18.509 It's got to be usable in daily life. 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.159 It's got to fit right into your family life, whether you, whether your family 00:31:22.159 --> 00:31:25.659 is you and your dog or, you know, what we say, or you're a member of a, the 00:31:25.659 --> 00:31:30.399 Brady Bunch, you know, it's all, it works in all environments, all families. 00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:33.779 And so it's one thing for me to know how to do it. 00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:37.429 But it's a whole nother thing for, I had to get it simple enough. 00:31:38.144 --> 00:31:41.624 Easy enough, effective enough that everybody can do it, right? 00:31:41.634 --> 00:31:42.874 That it's not a mystery. 00:31:43.124 --> 00:31:46.104 There's no like just some certain people who can, people see me do it 00:31:46.104 --> 00:31:47.954 and they're like, oh, that's just because you're great with dogs. 00:31:48.174 --> 00:31:49.644 It's like, I learned this. 00:31:49.794 --> 00:31:50.404 I learned it. 00:31:50.434 --> 00:31:52.854 I figured out how to do it and then I learned it and then I teach other 00:31:52.854 --> 00:31:54.394 people and they're effective too. 00:31:54.554 --> 00:31:55.144 Yes. 00:31:55.324 --> 00:31:58.084 I mean, I've worked with the worst of the worst cases that most dog 00:31:58.084 --> 00:31:58.804 parents are never going to see. 00:31:58.804 --> 00:31:58.944 I mean, 00:31:59.094 --> 00:32:01.514 Anke: look, I was going to, like, I know I'm going to sort of mess 00:32:01.564 --> 00:32:03.794 up the timing here, but I just couldn't, can't help myself. 00:32:04.134 --> 00:32:06.444 Like, how did you get to a place? 00:32:06.989 --> 00:32:09.739 Like, nobody would trust the most difficult cases to me. 00:32:09.749 --> 00:32:12.079 Like, you know, it's almost an I'm not like a newbie, right? 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.909 But it's like, how did you get into a situation where you ended up working with 00:32:16.909 --> 00:32:19.539 these really difficult, you know, cases? 00:32:20.249 --> 00:32:24.269 Angie: Yeah, it started out, I mean, I was not, this was not intending to be my life. 00:32:24.289 --> 00:32:28.269 I was, you know, raising two young boys and I started volunteering. 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.119 I knew, you know, I'd always done some dog training. 00:32:30.129 --> 00:32:32.539 And then I realized when I realized a couple of things like that dog 00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.389 training doesn't work for that when it was like, you know, my dog was 00:32:35.389 --> 00:32:37.019 sort of became afraid of my toddler. 00:32:37.434 --> 00:32:38.384 And it didn't work. 00:32:38.444 --> 00:32:39.924 The other stuff doesn't work. 00:32:39.924 --> 00:32:41.294 And I'm not getting rid of my dog. 00:32:41.484 --> 00:32:43.264 And I'm not letting my child get bit either. 00:32:43.544 --> 00:32:47.234 So I was, I was forced into figuring it out. 00:32:47.244 --> 00:32:48.624 Like I had to figure it out. 00:32:48.634 --> 00:32:49.794 I was, I was desperate. 00:32:50.144 --> 00:32:52.324 And then I just kept like, there wasn't anything to read. 00:32:52.324 --> 00:32:53.124 I kept looking for it. 00:32:53.124 --> 00:32:54.434 No, no answers there. 00:32:54.434 --> 00:32:54.704 You know? 00:32:54.704 --> 00:32:57.904 So then I just started figuring it out by tiny pieces of things I would 00:32:57.904 --> 00:32:59.524 learn or just about animal behavior. 00:32:59.524 --> 00:33:02.984 I've, my whole childhood, I, I spent, You know, basically outside 00:33:02.984 --> 00:33:04.234 with animals, watching animals. 00:33:04.234 --> 00:33:07.474 I've always been, you know, interested in animal behavior and drawn to that. 00:33:07.474 --> 00:33:08.844 My whole life has been about that. 00:33:09.164 --> 00:33:13.064 Um, and, you know, I 00:33:13.784 --> 00:33:17.504 Anke: But being in a situation where you needed to find a situation, I 00:33:17.524 --> 00:33:18.904 think that's a powerful rival, right? 00:33:19.044 --> 00:33:20.754 Yes, 00:33:20.754 --> 00:33:21.214 Angie: it was. 00:33:21.244 --> 00:33:24.664 And so then I just started, when I figured out how to do a lot of it, I was like, 00:33:24.664 --> 00:33:26.044 oh, that dog training doesn't even work. 00:33:26.044 --> 00:33:27.944 What everybody thinks is going to work doesn't work. 00:33:27.944 --> 00:33:29.484 And that's why all this is happening. 00:33:29.834 --> 00:33:32.224 And then I'm, I'm, I'm watching in these rescues. 00:33:32.364 --> 00:33:33.654 I didn't work for one rescue. 00:33:33.654 --> 00:33:35.104 I volunteered to help. 00:33:36.249 --> 00:33:42.489 train, at that time, um, dogs that, um, you know, couldn't be adopted yet 00:33:42.489 --> 00:33:44.809 because they weren't so, you know, because I had figured out some things. 00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:49.419 Then I, then I saw, and I just saw this epidemic of dogs, you know, 00:33:49.419 --> 00:33:52.739 developing all these behavioral issues, fears, aggression, and, you 00:33:52.739 --> 00:33:56.539 know, basically our whole society's inability to prevent or cure them. 00:33:57.029 --> 00:33:59.579 And then I became, I was just, I was distraught. 00:33:59.899 --> 00:34:01.639 So then I thought, there has to be answers. 00:34:02.084 --> 00:34:04.514 There are answers to things that make sense. 00:34:04.524 --> 00:34:05.844 There's a natural order of things. 00:34:05.844 --> 00:34:07.734 There's a natural thing, you know, things can be just because we 00:34:07.734 --> 00:34:10.014 don't know the answer yet doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist. 00:34:10.284 --> 00:34:13.924 So since I couldn't find it, I had to, I couldn't find it out there already. 00:34:14.164 --> 00:34:15.754 I had to figure it out myself. 00:34:16.054 --> 00:34:19.874 So then I started taking worse and worse and worse cases and then pretty soon 00:34:19.884 --> 00:34:25.604 vets or other rescues started, you know, knowing it's like, you know, Angie, 00:34:25.814 --> 00:34:28.654 let's see if we can get it to Angie, but I can only do so many dogs at a time. 00:34:29.054 --> 00:34:31.784 So, you know, I have that dilemma all the time. 00:34:32.054 --> 00:34:37.364 But then I, I started recording it, the behavior, um, just so that I 00:34:37.364 --> 00:34:39.744 could help the rescue folks here. 00:34:39.744 --> 00:34:43.534 If you, if you come upon this, help this, well then it just snowballed 00:34:43.544 --> 00:34:47.194 until I did case after case, after case, after case, you know, hundred dogs. 00:34:47.784 --> 00:34:53.584 So then by the time you've done that many and you've done it for that many years, I 00:34:53.584 --> 00:34:56.159 Anke: had 00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:00.499 Angie: a file of notes like that big, you know, from just like a five year 00:35:00.499 --> 00:35:03.139 period, and then another five years, and then another five years, and then 00:35:03.139 --> 00:35:06.339 video, and then I started turning it into systems, and then I started 00:35:06.389 --> 00:35:10.929 turning it into videos with systems, and then I turned it into the book. 00:35:11.664 --> 00:35:15.314 Um, and got it all into the forms of recipes and prescriptions. 00:35:15.804 --> 00:35:19.814 So it's a 25 year journey, but the part that is missing about that, 00:35:19.814 --> 00:35:23.244 and that's a way longer story for it, is that I was struggling during 00:35:23.244 --> 00:35:26.484 that period of time with a, with a, a devastating medical condition. 00:35:26.484 --> 00:35:29.514 And, and, and I, I basically lost my life. 00:35:29.514 --> 00:35:35.214 I was on the last hours of my life and I was a recipient of a miracle. 00:35:35.714 --> 00:35:37.384 And it's a long story. 00:35:37.474 --> 00:35:41.404 And then I woke up and I realized that dogs are the reason why I got to live. 00:35:41.879 --> 00:35:42.789 My work with dogs. 00:35:42.789 --> 00:35:45.279 And so I said, I've spent my entire life. 00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:50.139 Since that moment, trying to repay them for everything they did for me. 00:35:51.469 --> 00:35:54.229 Everything they taught me and everything they do for humanity. 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:57.999 So that's the reason why I've done this for 28 years because I can't stop. 00:35:58.539 --> 00:35:59.679 I don't, I owe it to them. 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:01.249 Anke: Love it so much. 00:36:01.879 --> 00:36:05.819 Do you want to repeat the, I'm all teary now, so thanks mate. 00:36:08.069 --> 00:36:10.539 Do you want to repeat the name of the book one more time? 00:36:11.609 --> 00:36:12.489 Angie: Don't Train Your Dog. 00:36:13.284 --> 00:36:16.864 It's a parenting to teaching good behavior, calming fear 00:36:16.864 --> 00:36:18.114 and raising happy dogs. 00:36:18.824 --> 00:36:19.214 Anke: Love it. 00:36:19.594 --> 00:36:20.704 Well, thank you so much. 00:36:20.744 --> 00:36:25.584 I think we definitely have at least another conversation or a masterclass. 00:36:25.584 --> 00:36:28.734 So please let this not be the last time we speak. 00:36:29.354 --> 00:36:29.974 Absolutely. 00:36:29.994 --> 00:36:30.504 For today. 00:36:31.254 --> 00:36:31.804 Angie: Thank you. 00:36:31.834 --> 00:36:32.594 Thanks for having me. 00:36:34.044 --> 00:36:35.274 Thanks so much for listening. 00:36:35.794 --> 00:36:40.094 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:36:40.194 --> 00:36:41.974 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:36:42.764 --> 00:36:46.254 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:36:46.684 --> 00:36:52.254 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:36:52.354 --> 00:36:54.724 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:36:54.724 --> 00:36:58.454 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:36:58.874 --> 00:37:00.014 I'd love an introduction. 00:37:00.494 --> 00:37:02.324 Email me at Anke. 00:37:02.594 --> 00:37:06.829 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.