Unknown: Hey, welcome back to circling the drain podcast. It's
the show that wants to try to keep the entertainment world and
the radio world all of that from going into the garbage disposal.
And I think we're kind of getting there. And my partner
right over here, brother, Jay. Partner, yeah, how you doing,
Jay? I'm doing fine. Partner, thank you, partner, thank you,
partner, I got an email from a young lady.
Oh, young lady, what? So you're already attracting? Young lady,
no,
no, it's you. It's you. She wants to know if that is a
wallet in your pocket, or if you're glad to see going back to
a previous five years, a little callback there. And the guy that
keeps us running. Jim McCarthy, Jim, how you doing? My brother?
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. Well, you know, we
were talking before the every all the cameras came on and
everything, we thought we'd invite you guys into this
discussion. We were talking about story songs, because they
used to be pretty popular in the music world, yeah.
You know, especially in the country music genre, Oh, yeah.
But, you know, even in the in the pop world as well, well,
we were just talking about the one that I liked it. It didn't
seem like you guys were as wild about us as I was, but the wreck
of the Edmund Fitzgerald, I always loved that song.
Yeah, I understand I wasn't a big
no, I I totally agree with you, though. I mean, I was certainly
captivated by that song, even though the melody just kind of
went over and over. Well, yeah, and the song was, it was three
days long. Also it
was very long, but it was a great three business days, yes,
but it has some great
line, absolutely. I mean, Gordon Lightfoot, you know, sadly, he
passed away here, what about a year or so back? And, yeah, he,
you know, he was one of those artists that people under seem
to under appreciate, as is the case with many artists. I guess
people in general, after he passed, people came out of the
woodwork about how great he was, well,
and that always the case, yeah, yeah, that's always the and why
is that? I always wonder why all of a sudden, records just take
off. When these guys it was when, like, Eddie Van Halen
died, the Van Halen catalog just went nuts,
yeah, and the best career move was death, yeah, it really is.
You know, remember when Michael Jackson passed crazy with with
his records. But you know that happened recently with Ozzy,
yeah, did you know? Oh, really did Black Sabbath stuff?
I think when people die early, you know, Kurt Cobain,
unexpected, Jimmy Hendrix, right? They're, they're, they're
just, you know, the 27 club, yeah, it's, they're basically
put up on a pedestal, for
sure. Yeah, they are.
Janis Joplin, yeah, legendary. Morrison, yeah, Brian Jones of
the stone. But it seemed like, boy, there were a bunch of them
there in the 60s and early 70s. Van Gogh, yeah. Van Gogh, he van
went.
That was very good. In fact, he started the my late friend Phil
Valentine started on his show. If anybody wasn't quite
listening as closely as they should, he'd always call them a
Van Gogh listeners. And for those that don't know the Van
Gogh story, he cut off an ear and didn't he send it to a lover
or girl that he was Yeah, yeah. Didn't quite work out. That's
kind of
he did not. He didn't see that he was friend zoned, yeah? She
put, she put him in the friend zone.
Yeah, she did, yeah. We could still be friends, right? But,
you know, there's so many great story songs out there. One guy
that was really good, I thought, in writing story songs was Guy
Clark. What a great I mean, yeah, homegrown tomatoes, yeah,
Randall knife about his father. I mean, very, very good song.
But you guys aren't the first person people that talked about
the need for the story song, the concept of the story song to
make a comeback. My brother is of the same opinion.
Well, we're right there with him, yeah, right there with you,
bro, yeah. But, I
mean, you know, the songwriting industry, and the whole music
industry is, like, you know, even Neil Thrasher talks about
AI being the best co writer right now, and that's going to
be a thing.
Boy, AI, boy, that's going to be an, what we talked about, that's
going to be, you talk about a death nail the radio, well,
radio talent, and it's and it's troubling for the music
business. Yeah, it is very troubling. Well, in fact, we're
already seeing it. If you, if you look at social media,
they're putting out a lot, and especially like on Facebook, I
noticed it more so than any other. They're putting up AI
images that aren't real, and they're also putting stories to
it that, yeah, that are BS. Yeah, they are. I mean, they're
not even true. There's one out now that says there's going to
be a big 2026, tour with stones and Springsteen and, oh, really,
oh yeah, all these acts are getting together. And I'm
thinking, that's not happening. Yeah, no, it's not gonna
happen. I did it. I always thought like a good collab.
Collaboration would have been with Eddie Van Halen and Ricky
Skaggs. That would have been, I think you actually I put the
picture up and you, I think you commented on it, yeah, as well
as Mike fucel Fussel, yeah, was the tree. He was a die hard
Eddie Van Halen fan. I said that would have been a collaboration
just for us nerds.
Well, yeah, it would. And you talk about two guys that can
play, yeah, oh my gosh, yeah. I love Ricky Skaggs. I mean that
dude
can play anything. It's got strings on it. Son of a gun, can
play. Yes, he can.
And, and, plus a big Beatles fan, yeah, big Beatles fan. In
fact, he always wanted to get a when I met him, he wanted to get
together with me and talk Beatles, which I always will
with people.
Well, you know what? Maybe we get to bring him on the show. I
think that would be
great. The Beatles, yeah. Let's talk Beatles, really, yeah.
You know, getting back to AI, with respect to music, I'm sure
you guys have seen there was an and there been a couple of them,
but there was one act in particular that had many, many
live streams, was kind of on the charts, quote, unquote, and it
was total AI, and even the photos of the band members were
AI created. It was all AI, and the public had no clue until
they came out. That sounded weird, yeah, until they until
they made themselves, you know, public in the sense that, hey,
this is all BS. There are no live musicians here. This is all
totally, totally AI, well,
you know, that's kind of a sad thing with music for me right
now. I was just thinking about this the other day. You know,
when you listen to a lot of the records from I'll take Dave
Clark, five, for example, glad all over. If you listen to that
song. I mean, it's got power, but it's not perfect. There are
mistakes in that song and but the sound of it, the sound of
that record, I think that's missing in today's music,
because everything's so damn perfect
well. And you know when Jimmy Bowen came along into into
Nashville, you know, when I worked for him at MCA, brilliant
dude. You know, he brought the whole digital thing to Music
City and got him off of analog and got him off the tape. And,
you know, the community, the, you know, the old guard, if you
will, just went ballistic, claiming that kind of what
you're saying, that it became too pristine, yeah, clean, too
cold. It was, it lost its warmth.
Well, you know, with country music, I don't know it didn't,
it didn't bother me as much, because I did like some of the
production on Jimmy Bowen's. I thought he was great producer.
Absolutely, the guy was brilliant, yeah, because, I
mean, waylons career, when he got a hold of Waylon. Waylon had
been sticking with the same sound for so long that it kind
of lost its, you know, it's allure. And then when he did,
will the wolf survive with Jimmy Bowen, that was a great, great,
great album in his version of that, oh yeah, just kicked butt
man with the mandolins, that hot mandolin there, yeah,
but with rock and roll music, I think a lot of the best rock and
roll music was made, I mean, was done in the studios and and,
like I said, Dave Clark, five is a great example. Glad all over
if you've never heard that song, if you're a youngster out there,
listen to the song and listen to the energy that record
that, that's the word for me, energy. I mean, you go back to a
lot of that old rare earth, oh yeah, stuff, man, just sizzles
needles, the stones, the energy on that, those records, you
know, just sounds like hey, and I'm sure it was, you know, they
just all piled in a studio, and, you know what? 2123, and, you
know, in a way, they went, Man,
yeah, Dave Clark was not the greatest drummer. I mean, I
think you can back me up on that, but there was something
about his sound. People will say the same
thing about Ringo. Oh, Ringo was perfect for the beat. He was
absolutely perfect. And the thing is that, and Greg
Bissonette identified this. He says, you take the music out of
and you just listen to the drums on any Beatles song, you could
tell what it is. You could tell what song it is. Yes, he was
that good in terms of making it identifiable. And you could say
a lot of these guys came up with their own sound. Alex Van Halen,
for sure, you know, you could tell he's playing. You could
tell Neil's playing. You could tell just a lot of guys are some
for most drummers, they don't really come up with their own
sound, but I will say I did when I when I had to play with the
Huey band a couple months ago. Yeah, I wanted to put a click
track just to because they had different, like tracks we were
playing with, but I wanted to have the actual music as a
reference when I was practicing right? That was a chore, because
those guys didn't record with a click,
yeah, well, and when you try to, because I have a friend, Todd
Austin, who is known as Todd Zilla in Nashville, great guitar
player. He was playing with a prince tribute band, and they
were really good. But. He said, Man, trying to replicate. He
said that dude was a brilliant guitar player, yeah, and try and
Todd also, it was big Van Halen fan, and that's who Todd kind of
reminds me of. Is Prince, a combination of Prince and Van
Halen, right? That's the kind of sound that I think he brings
out.
And my point being is that with those old records here, they are
having a lasting impact, almost, standards. Yes, you know, cross,
not from genre, but you know, generation, multi, generation
hits. You know, don't stop believing. What are the don't
stop believings being written today. You know what I mean?
No, exactly. And I think one thing that's hurting it too, is
the concert prices, right? Because when we were growing up,
it didn't cost that much to go to a concert, seven or eight
bucks maybe, and you were in, you know. But nowadays, I mean,
you're talking, it's getting up to $500,000
to, well, to go to a show,
yeah. I mean, what? McCartney here in Nashville, oh, man, you
know, over 1000 bucks just to, you know, of course, a smaller
venue as well, that affects things, yet it does, yeah,
but yeah, that's what's I think that, and I think that's what's
kind of killing rock music right now, is that, where are the kids
going to get their inspiration from if they can't afford to go
to these shows, because a lot of the musicians that we really dug
like Van Halen brothers, for example, they were not, they
didn't grow up wealthy, no, and they wouldn't have been able to,
you know, put together $500 to go to a show.
They also grew up in an age, and an age, a time and a location
that was lightning in a bottle. Oh, was
it ever? Yeah, and talk about perfect, yep. I mean, getting
David Lee Roth, getting Michael Anthony, just the Sunset Strip
that whole night. Oh, it was. And the sad thing about Michael
Anthony, I think that guy gets a real he's kind of like Ringo. He
gets a short shrift. You know, people say, well, he wasn't that
great of a bass player. He was, but very he was, he was
underrated. But what he really brought to the band was the
sound of vocal sound, because David's vocals would have really
sucked without, without that high. Michael, Anthony,
well, kind of like, uh, Buck Owens and Don rich, exactly, you
know, after Don rich, sadly, you know, was killed in that
motorcycle wreck. I think he was like 34 Yes, when he passed
buck, Owen's career was never the same. No, it
really wasn't. He added a lot to his sound, yeah. So, yeah,
there's a lot of but, yeah, I wish it's not that I want to go
back so much, but I think they're trying too hard to make
every record just perfect. And Perfection doesn't always mean
the greatest musical ever heard. Sometimes you take Deep Purple's
made in Japan, for example, that was a great record, and there
were no overdubs, no overdubs done at all, and you can hear
mistakes in it. Blackmore makes mistakes. In fact, Blackmore
used to drive me crazy because he never replicated the the
total solo he did on Highway star, which was one of my
favorite Deep Purple songs, but he always screwed around in I
think he's a great guitar player. Was like, play the solo
like you recorded, come on.
Well, you know, when it was recorded, it was probably just
free form, you know? And, well, yeah, they're trying to recreate
that any given night kind of that's true, that's
true. And plus, they recorded it in a hotel,
which is how they came up with Smoke on the Water.
You know, live albums,
to me, you know, way back when, just the sound of them, the I
don't know, just the audio quality of a lot of live albums,
way back when, I never really liked live albums for that
reason, until Elton John's 1117, 70. That was a great record
where they just kicked ass. Three guys, man, Dee Murray on
bass. Oh yeah, Nigel Olsen on drums. I had, I had dinner with
Nigel Olsen. Did you really way back when? Anyway, and and then,
of course, Elton on piano. And there were mistakes in that. I
mean, it was live that, I think the Troubadour in LA, yes, is
where that was recorded. And just that, you know, going back
to the word energy, yeah, I mean the energy and passion. I mean
Elton was smoking back then. Oh yeah, he was, you know, I think
that was his best period from about 70 till about 7475 when he
started the caribou album, with all the drugs and stuff, is
where he just, kind of, you know, started to write, to go
downhill, but mad man across the water. Tumbleweed, connection,
honky chateau, my favorite, you know, I mean, just great stuff.
Stuff. And again, it was all about just the passion and the
energy of those albums. And I don't know, I don't sense that
in some of the the newer stuff. Now, of course, things are now
so electronic. Yeah, that's that kind of for me. Anyways, a turn
off. Well, they also overdub now, I mean, if there's a
mistakes made on live show. They'll overdub now. Van Halen
last live Record Tokyo dumb and concert. You know, they didn't
overdub anything on that because their mistakes and plus Dave's
voice, you know, nowadays is God
not stellar. Yeah. Did you guys watch the Billy Joel documentary
that came out? No, I've yet
to see that. Oh, it's incredible. Is that right here?
Is that a Netflix thing? Ah, there might be primer Netflix,
one of the two. But, you know, just following his career and
everything, speaking of getting back the story songs, you know,
piano, man,
yeah. I mean, right? Billy Joel, I mean, a number of his big hits
were story songs.
Oh yeah, the entertainer. What a great, great, great tune.
Italian restaurant, yes, yeah. The Entertainer was a an angry
song, because he's like,
we're getting this off. Yes. Let me write about Well, see, I like
those. I kind of like them. I like the tunes that where people
take well, I David Allen co had
one boy, he did a lot of those screw you mentality, oh yeah.
Sense of
humor was a good one, yeah.
But there was, comes when you're pissed off, yeah,
but, but when he wrote one that I loved, it was kind of directed
toward the music industry, and he dedicated it to Bob Dylan.
Was called castles in the sand. Yes, I remember. And that was a
great and talk about a great story song. And we'll have this
guy on with us, actually, the guy that wrote the ride where he
meets the ghost of Hank Williams.
David Allen co David, you know, with the big hit, yeah, but it'd
be Gary Gentry. He's a great songwriter, and has written a
lot of but we'll have him in, yeah, he's, he had a lot of
great story songs, like 1959
John Anderson, yeah, yeah. Some good, good stuff. So yeah,
looking forward to to meeting him. So he's a cool guy.
It's funny, because I think the allure of a story song still
exists, especially amongst the young population. Believe it or
not, like my daughter, who's still a teenager, she's 19, she
was into a play. She's very big into Broadway shows, especially
contemporary ones. They were very big into Hamilton. Yeah, it
really kind of piqued my interest when she got into a
show called Dear Evan Hansen. And the music in that is really
good. And of course, you know, Broadway plays tell a story, and
the musicality of them to help to tell those stories. But it
was, yeah, I mean, it's so there's something there, you
know that if you're, if you're a songwriter in town, give
it a shot. Oh, yeah, I'll tell you who another guy that did a
great job with story songs, and it may engage guys. May not
agree with me, but Alice Cooper, yeah, great, great story song.
Oh, I know just, you know, I had a friend of mine, or is actually
a friend of my father's. He did it. He had a rock station in
Kansas, and Alice Cooper played. He was about the only him, and
there were only a few bands that came through my hometown of
Wichita. Alice played there every year, right? And this guy
was going, he took every act out for dinner, and had a lot of
interesting stories. He said Alice Cooper totally blew him
away, because he said, I go to pick this guy up, and I'm
expecting a real freak show. He said he was like Fred McMurray,
you know, my three sons. Yeah. He said he was just very
straight down the drank a lot of beer, but, yeah, but he said,
very normal, nothing like what he was expecting.
Yeah, Budweiser was his sponsor back then. Yeah, it was Yeah.
And I think he personally kept Budweiser in business the way he
for a long time. Yeah, he was a practitioner, yes. But, you
know,
it was kind of like me and Jack Daniels. You know, I drank so
much Jack Daniels that when I went to visit the Jack Daniels
distillery here in Tennessee, they had a new walkway that they
had just put in. I swear to God, I probably paid for that.
Well, when you walked in there, it was like norm on cheers, you
know,
thank you for keeping us in business for so many years. That
was the worst thing. Whenever I quit drinking, I think they
quiet the blues at Jack Daniels, oh, man, he's oh no, oh no. He
lost Johnny.
Yeah, Alice now, all totally
Christian, yeah, totaler, yeah. Oh hey, man, good for him.
You're not kidding, man, yeah, I saw him at a send amphitheater
when he, you know, here in Nashville, I guess it's been a
couple of years ago now, and, you know, still entertaining as
can be with all of the theatrics and and whatnot. You know.
Well, he brought back the old band too, which I'm glad,
because I've missed that band, to be honest, I like the other
musicians he's had. It, but it didn't have the magic that those
guys had together. And so now they brought it back with the
revenge of Alice Cooper. So I'm anxious to hear the whole album.
I've heard some of it.
You know, he'll be here next month with Judas Priest. Yes, he
will first think,
all right, yeah, yeah. The venue that's impossible to get in and
out. Have you been there? Yeah, the last time I was there, I sat
there longer than I wanted to, trying to get in and out of
there. It was just one lane. They had, you know, to get in
and out.
I just Uber in and out. Man,
you're the smart man. That's why Jim is our guy. He's really the
brains of this old right, you
know, and that's troubling. But you know
that we talk about venues. We used to have a place here called
Starwood.
Oh, yep, saw many great acts there. Yeah,
it was, oh, I had a great time down there. But yeah, trying to
leave that place, because, as always, it could be a challenge.
Oh, it could be. Everybody was Murfreesboro Road, yeah, then
they were inebriated. A lot of people, that is true. Yeah,
don't get behind
the wheel if you're when did they build that place? That was
before I moved here.
Oh, man, that had to be the 80s. Well, I moved here in 85 and it
was here then, yeah, well,
it was rolling
by then, because the amphitheater, I guess they were
one of the first model amphitheater that came out,
because the amphitheater model took off in the 90s, because we
had the in Hartford, Connecticut. We had the big
amphitheater up there. It's, you know, it was like the CT
now.com, it was initially called the meadows, and, you know, as a
ct now.com, meadows music. That was such a mouthful to say on
the radio.
Oh, I know
I'm hearing rumors that they're trying to revive Starwood,
really, that'd be kind of cool, because I enjoyed Starwood.
I don't know if, I don't know what is there anything in its
old location? Now, I've, now, I haven't been out there, you
know, Antioch. I haven't,
no, I haven't either, yeah, I don't know if it's not a desired
place to go,
yeah, yeah. It can be a little rough, yeah. But, you know, the
story songs, many of them also seem to transcend genres. Yes,
you know, I mean, the gambler, that thing was played everywhere
in the same thing with Marty Robbins El Paso, that was a big
pop hit as well back in 1960 Yeah. And Kenny Rogers had
another one called Lucille. Yeah, Lucille and coward of the
county. I mean, he really rolled with those stories, songs there,
you know. And let's face it, those kicked his career into
another gear. I mean, you know, he was just kind of languishing
with that whole first edition thing.
Oh, yeah. He was country music really. I mean, Larry Butler
should be, yeah, the really commended for bringing him back
from, yeah.
And then, you know, that period there in the mid 80s where Kenny
Rogers kind of sort of announced that he was a pop star, you
know, he was doing a lot of that lush, orchestra laden stuff, you
know, Lady and, oh yeah, when he got with Lionel Richie, Lionel
Richie. And then, you know, kind of disowned, dissed country
radio to a certain degree. Yeah, and there were a lot of country
stations. I remember it well. It's like, Hey, Kenny, just
remember us, yes, see this yeah, see this thing.
Yeah.
Tell us how you really Yeah, yeah.
So he did himself no favors doing that, but, but, yeah,
Kenny Rogers, you know, I, I got to be around Kenny a bit. I was
stage managing a TV special that was filmed in Branson, and Kenny
Rogers was one of the, well, he was kind of a presenter on the
on the show and, you know, teleprompter and all that stuff
at a podium. And they ran into some technical problems. I mean,
it was a live taping thing with an audience and whatnot, yeah,
and Kenny Rogers, you know, I went and, you know, he said,
Hey, we're ready for Kenny. So I run back to the dressing room,
you know, you know Mr. Rogers, you know time for you know, I
didn't sound like that, but you know what I mean, Hey, Kenny,
we're ready for you.
So, like an old school lucky
strikes, that's right, yeah.
But so anyway, I grabbed Kenny, you know, and we go into the
wings there, and we're waiting. And then they're like, oh, hold
up. Well, you know, delay. So I'm standing there with Kenny.
We're shooting the breeze a little bit. And then finally,
you know, we kind of the delay got a little longer, a little
longer, and, you know, we're keeping this clean, but he
probably said more F words, waiting on, you know, what the f
is taking so effing, you know, FF and ballistic, you know, it
was like Tony Montana in Scarface, you know. But, yeah,
he grew very, very impatient, you know? Yeah, well. Was going
on. And finally, when everything was clear, you know, he pops out
on the stage and, you know, good evening and never, you know,
just missed, you know, he turned it on. You know,
see, that's what I love about Pete. There was a, and I won't
say who it was, but I was told about someone that was on local
TV here, the newscaster female, and they said that and that,
they said that she was just blowing a gasket. I mean,
cussing everybody out, yelling nothing was right. And they were
count and they were counting her down and when, when they got to
where she was on camera. Hi, I'm
Little Miss Sunshine.
See, I couldn't do that because I remember when I worked with
Phil Valentine, if I was really having a bad day, and Phil would
always do this. I think he did it on purpose because he wanted
me to lose it on the air. But he'd go everything, all right,
in there. And instead of going, everything's great, Phil, we're
having a great time. Instead, it was, you know, no,
who's asking?
But yeah, Branson, Missouri, that's another I remember Johnny
Cash. Johnny Cash had the, I think he said this to his
daughter. I read this in a book that Robert Hilbert did on on
Johnny Cash. But apparently, when Johnny Cash went to went to
Branson, come on in, dude, come on in, because you're going to
be on the show, on our next on our next podcast. Yeah, we're,
we're doing one right now, but Gary Gentry has joined us. He's
gonna be good to see you, bro. But we're talking about story
songs. This guy actually wrote some great ones. Yeah, some
classics. But I was gonna tell you about Johnny Cash, right
with Branson, Missouri. He apparently told his daughter. He
said, You know the difference between Jurassic Park and
Branson, Missouri? Blue hair.
I so which daughter was that? John? It was Kathy. It was,
again, it was a cat.
John Carter, wouldn't there, you know,
but, yeah, again, you know, getting back to the crossing
over to different formats and stuff, I mean, story songs have
more of a propensity to do that than, you know, any other types
of songs, certainly too, you know, because, I mean, people
from whether you're a rock fan, pop fan, country, bluegrass,
whatever it may be, you can still relate to these story
songs. Oh yeah, death. You know, regardless of the quote, unquote
style of the song itself. Can't forget about Harry Chapin, man,
oh yeah, the master
cats in the cradle. What a great song, W O L D, oh yeah. That was
a great song. W O L D, I'm all about Harry Chase.
He had a lot of good songs he did, yeah, I guess that's like
that. That's the only death that happened that didn't really have
the effect, you know, it kind of, I mean, his music may be
kind of the cats in the cradle, of course, had longevity, but
the rest of the songs are just, you got to really like my wife
introduced me to a lot of his music because her parents used
to listen to it. And, you know, we used to listen to it when we
dated, when we got married, and cleaning the apartment, and it
just gets embedded, yeah, it's just good
stuff, yeah, yeah. I mean, it seems like just about everything
he did was a story song, taxi. Oh yeah, I forgot about that
one. Yeah. How are you, Harry? So, yeah, that that, yeah, and,
but where are those types of songwriters again, you know,
Gary Gentry, just walking in, you'll be joining us here in a
podcast. And, yeah, you know, I would love to kind of ask him,
you know, what he thinks about, you know, where is this other?
Where is the new generation that has the ability, or the desire,
perhaps, to write those songs? You know,
yeah, we need more of those, because there was such great
writers. Very true.
But, I mean, even,
to be fair, a lot of the hits in the 80s, the rock hits and stuff
like that, you know, jump wasn't a story song, not at all. What
would you what kind of a song would you call that? Though?
Jump, yeah,
that's a great question.
It's inspirational,
believe. Well, I thought it was, I thought it kind of, I
understood it. I've asked, kind of the way David Lee Roth, you
know, had written it, that it's trying to tell you to jump and,
you know, to go, like, say, if you're, if you're trying to
reach a goal of some kind, jump for it, right? Or if you're
trying to ask a girl out and you're afraid to jump, make it
happen, even if everything goes wrong, at least you jumped. At
least you you tried to reach the brass ring, so to speak,
like presently conceptual, I guess would be,
wow, man, that's too heavy.
That's really deep. Yeah. Up. I always loved what he the story
he told of what inspired him to write it. He always said that he
was in his car in LA and that somebody was threatening to
jump. Oh, really, off a bridge.
Go ahead, jump.
Have you read the book The brothers
book yet? Yeah, I have, yeah, very good, yeah, very good book.
I was just surprised. There were nothing about the Hagar years or
anything of that nature.
Yeah, Alex is holding on to that anger. Well, there's
the Van Halen brothers as a talent as they are. They know
how to hold a grudge. I know they do that better than they
do. They're even they're playing, I know they're very
dedicated to that.
It's like, you know, it's a double, double edged sword with
the sharper side of it pointed towards you, yeah? Living on
anger like that. Yeah, it is. That's ridiculous. But you know,
Bon Jovi living on a prayer. It's kind of a story song, yeah,
it is. Well, Tommy and Gina
and what was the other one that he had? He did, I think it was a
solo Bon Jovi. Was it glory? Was laser glory? Yeah, that was kind
of a story song,
right?
And there was a song that Mark chestnut cut that was, I
believe, a Bon Jovi song, really. And it was, it was a
single in chest. I, you know, we used to play it on the the
classic country station, yeah, and I'm drawing a blank on the
title of the thing, but at the time, chestnut said it was a
mistake that he recorded that. But it still gets played, you
know, on, on classic country,
yeah, there's some, there's some country covers that probably
should have never been done. You know, far as
rock Conway Twitty, slow hand. What did you think of that? Or
heartache tonight? You know, Conway,
heartache tonight was a little. I actually liked his version of
slow hand. I thought it was okay. The Rose, yeah, that's a
little
Yeah, yeah. Conway was in that period there on Warner Brothers
where he just was like, Mr. Cover, you know,
the one that really came to my mind when we were talking about
this. And Gary, I'm sorry if you're a fan of this song, but
Garth Brooks version of fever by Aerosmith I couldn't get
in. Yeah, or, what about shameless, what did you think of
that? It was all right, you know the Billy Joel.
It was our I see, I'm not a,
truth be told, I'm just not a big Garth fan.
Yeah, honey. You and I've talked about that. I am not either. I
mean, I'm just really indifferent.
I mean, well, I am too. It's not that I dislike him, right? Yeah,
he's just not my cup of tea.
Yeah, yeah, that. But, you know, you got to give him credit
there, though,
oh my gosh. I mean, the guy changed 8990,
when he came along, you know, the pendulum started swinging
back. A little more traditional. Well, I
think he did what Steve Earle was trying to do. He was, I
think that Garth actually made the country music shows more of
a rock event. Yeah, true, and crossed him over to an audience
that, yeah, didn't get into country music
instead of a guy just standing there, wooden with the guitar.
Here's a song I wrote back in, you know. Well, okay, thank you.
Well, as much as I love Alan wrote,
as much as I love Alan Jackson, the only stage presence that
dude has is, you know, the moving the leg, yeah,
the sizzle and the stick, yeah, he did. Well, you know,
there are certain artists who can get away with that. I mean,
George Strait, just, you know, stood there and smile, you know,
well,
Waylon Jennings and well, first time I saw Waylon, I couldn't
believe how entertained I was. And I thought this guy never
said anything to you, yeah, never said a word. Never said
only thing I think he said was, hello. Yes, he was he could
entertain you just by being up there. Well, come over here, if
you will, have you on early
this man just landing.
Yeah, we'll put you on early because you're such a good
friend anyway. Well, I gotta tell a story before he gets on
here.
Yeah, I'll let you tell
that Butler's building. His building was next door. Yeah. He
came in one night and Ed Hudson, the engineer, said, Hey, Gary,
you always wanted to meet Waylon. Here come. Oh boy, yeah.
He walked in the door. He went in the bath. I went upstairs to
co write with a buddy. Waylon was in the studio, Larry Butler
studio, yeah, and when I came down three hours later, Ed said
he's still in there. I said, What's he doing? He didn't have
the band. He didn't have any back. He's listening to drum
beats and bass lips. And Ed Said he does that. He was all about.
Music. Oh, yeah, he was Waylon. It was very interesting, because
the only time I met him, and I really goofed it, because I, for
one, I didn't think he'd talk to me because I wasn't supposed to
be there. This was a, this was a meeting that my father had with
a gentleman that produced waylands Rec. In fact, Wayland,
it was ALCAR T. He used car T studios a lot, but they were
going to build a big hotel for artists that would also have,
you know, staging to produce television shows and all this.
And they really didn't think Wayland and Waylon and Johnny
Cash were supposed to be at this meeting. So when, when I get
there, and I'm not even supposed to be there, my dad just said,
Do you want to come? You can just sit in there and listen to
everything. He said, I know you dig Waylon and Johnny Cash. So I
get in there, and Jesse Coulter's sitting across from
me, and then Jim Carter's over here. I love June Carter,
because I thought this gal doesn't care about any, you
know, she doesn't care about any kind of decorum. She's got her
feet up on the desk. She's wearing these slippers that are
really, I don't know they're gaudy, but what was really cool
is Jesse coltra. And man, Was she beautiful. I mean, I
couldn't shake my eyes out of this woman, but she was sitting
there, and all of a sudden, and you couldn't see the door to the
outer office, but the door the outer office opens, and Jessie
goes, well, there's Wayland. And I said, How do you know that's
Waylon? She goes, I just know. And sure enough, in with a
members only jacket. Here it is, in the middle of summer, got the
members only jacket on the cowboy hat on. There he is,
Waylon Jennings, and it was very interesting to watch because I
was more impressed with Johnny Cash because Waylon was so quick
to sign his name to anything like I'm thinking, you know, I
really don't know if these guys can pull it off, and they
didn't. Because I knew that my father, at the time, was not
financially where he could get this done himself. But Johnny
Cash was really cool, because he said, I'll have to look it over
my financial advisor before I sign my name. But he looked at
me, and he goes, I know you from somewhere. And I thought, What
do I say? Yes, you do where I don't know. Yeah, we were
picking up some goods, if you know what I mean,
gave us sinus trouble.
But yeah, it would be good to see the story song come back
like this gentleman wrote, and we're going to get into that in
our in our next future, our next podcast, right? We're going to
talk about all the great songs he wrote. But I would like to
see the stories.
I also got to say, you know, in the 90s Pearl Jam and Jeremy was
a story song. Yes, that. I think of it, yeah, because I'm, like,
racking my brain, what did I grow up with? And what was a,
you know, similar to that? You know, we talked about the
Sullivan so I think we stood before we started recording,
right? I can't remember the band that did that song. I'll look it
up, but they wrote a song about similar to the concept of Saving
Private Ryan, when the military would put three brothers just to
keep them together because of what happened with the Sullivan
brothers. They all died on a naval ship. I want to say,
right? They stopped that practice. So because, I mean,
you know, three quarters of their kids were wiped out in one
fell swoop. And the band did a story about that, a song about
that
story. Well, what I have your gym. It was a band called
Carolina's spine. That's right. Caroline spine, yeah. Caroline
spine, yeah.
1995 Yep. Return. Turn your blue star to gold. Was a powerful
line,
I tell you. And I just think about another one that was a
story song with Motley Crue Dr field, good, yeah? Because when
you listen to that song, when it's tells a story well, and
especially, it was covered by the Mavericks, if you listen to
their version of it, it's more of a, I don't know, kind of like
a big band sound to it. Then you read more the story. Yeah, you
hear more of the story. And it's, I'm thinking, Man, that's
a heck of a story, actually, because with Motley Crue. So you
know, you're listening to the guitar. It's a badass song. Oh,
it was, but when you hear I, I asked you to listen to Mavericks
version of it. It is really good. It, in fact, I fell in
love with it more than I did the original, the crew version.
Yeah, the crew and I love Motley Crue,
actually, I will say Zach Brown does a good job of story songs.
Yes, you know, he has some categories like presently, I
guess more label them presently conceptual, but he's got a song
that came on. We were doing a lighting job a couple of years
ago, and I was eight days away from my family. And I'm a former
electricians approach. On us. So I'm, you know, we're, we have a
multitude of businesses here, so including podcasts, really,
yeah, so we went up there, we did a lighting job up in
Cleveland area. And I'm, you know, away from my kids, my
family and everything like that, I'm listening to music. Just
keep myself and you get into the rhythm of work, and this one
song comes on, and and it's going to be, if my, my daughter
gets married, it'll be the one we dance to. But my, I was a
sobbing mess. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah,
story songs can get to you, like,
well, empty chair by trace Adkins, if you've ever heard
that, it is really very well done.
There goes my life. Yeah, yeah. That was written by Neil
Thrasher and somebody else who I can't think of, but he said
he'll tell you. He's like, Yeah, that was about my daughter, blue
eyes and bouncing.
Wow. Steve Earle actually wrote one about his son that passed
away, Justin towns. Earl called last words, man, I can't listen
to that. I listened to that one time, and that was it. I
couldn't do anymore.
Kelly Lovelace, he wrote the Brad Paisley hit. Didn't have to
be that about the dad who became a stepdad, yeah. And it's a
beautiful song. And then when I met him for the first time, I'm
like, you wrote that? And he goes, Yeah. And I said, you sob.
He kind of like real back. I said, You freaking got me with
that one? I remember when I heard it, yeah, and I was, oh,
gosh, hit you right in the fields.
That's when, you know, you got a good writer, when they can make
you Yeah. And the
unfortunate thing is, Neil even said thing. He says, I recently
he had said, I've written some of the best stuff in the last
five years. It'll never get cut.
Wow. That crazy.
So he was sob. He was the same old boy, right, right. Gary.
Hey, man, man, I tell you, it's great to see Gary. And I've
never met, but I'll tell you, I was so excited. I'm Jay Harper,
by the way. But Gary, I was so excited, you know. Man, I played
your records. Man, you know the sob, you know, same old boy,
I've always been. Man, I've always thought
that positions wouldn't play itself a little risk game, no.
Man, well, I can tell you w, I N, K, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, we
played the fire
when well, when we when we get to our next podcast with Gary,
I'm gonna have to tell you all a story about a song that Gary
wrote that I loved by Johnny paycheck, called drinking and
driving. Drinking and driving that woman right out of my mind.
Well, I got, I
had so much trouble out of that song? Yeah, I will tell you.
We'll tell the story when we get to our next podcast, which will
be coming up, yeah, little tease for you, little tease for you.
But yeah, it, I mean, it was a battle, because I love the song.
Oh yeah. But yeah, I had, I had, there was a program director.
His wife was a big member of Matt, right, right. Oh, man, she
gave me, oh, man, it was a battle, and I lost. Yeah, I
ended up losing. So we'll tell that story on the next podcast.
I think we should encourage the listeners in the comments make
sure that you any songs we're missing that are Star Story
songs, and maybe we can revisit this topic.
Yeah, please do. And in fact, if there's ever anything you want
us to talk about that you would like to to let us know about.
Please, do you know? Please let us know. Comment to us and and
we'll read them. There we go. Yeah, a lot of people don't, but
we do. We read them. We read them. It may not look like if we
know how to read.
Yes, yeah. So soul radio guys do have a another skill or two?
Yeah? We do. Yeah. So skilled.
We are so skilled, multifaceted
under underratedly skilled, but skilled, we even know where to
put our
water, underpaid skills. Yes, right.
We just don't really negotiate too well for ourselves.
Well, that's the truth, man, tell me about it. I needed an
agent. I needed you. Back in those days, you
know, I needed me to I just didn't know
it took me getting into the sales game to be like, Oh,
that's how it works. You actually got to negotiate with
people and understand your value proposition.
Well, shall we call this to a close, my friends? Well,
circling the drain. We really appreciate you joining us
circling the drain with Johnny B Jay Harper and, of course, Jim
McCarthy. And we're going to be back next time you see us with
this gentleman right here. Yeah, good friend and a great
songwriter. Gary Gentry,
thank you, and look forward to it.