Welcome back to the PJ Players Podcast.
Thanks for joining today.
We have two gentlemen from 360 Privacy, Ben Barine and Nick Bush.
Thanks for being here guys.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, excited for the conversation today.
Uh, a lot of the conversations we have on this podcast are around the best
players in the world, on the golf side, but also the best athletes in the world.
How are they converting and creating talent into value?
And what we want to talk about today is more on the continue of their,
their talent and value set, uh, side.
And what we're gonna talk about is security.
Um, maybe not as fun as some of the other conversations we've had, but
probably the most important it can be.
Yeah, actually some of the conversations we've had, some of the drills
we've done have been pretty fun.
So, um, but it's probably the most important conversation we're
gonna have on here today, and I think it's gonna resonate with.
People that are on the PJ tour, whether it's the player, the wife,
the agent, um, the family, they understand what's at risk these days.
But I think it's gonna be great to have you two give us some context of maybe like
the behind the scenes of what happens.
So.
Why don't one of you guys give me a little background on 360
Privacy, how y'all started?
That'd be great.
Yeah, so we've been around for about five years now, six years.
What we do, in short, we remove people from the internet, right?
So we remove, and not from Facebook, not from Wikipedia, but if you look up Nic
Bush on Google Home Address, you know, there's all these websites where it,
you're just, our information is just.
Hemorrhaging, right?
Yeah.
On, on Google.
And so part of our core flag, our flagship, uh, program
is we remove you from those.
It's called 360 Deletes.
Um, we remove from about 500 websites every single day
just so that someone can't.
Just as easy, easily Google where you live, right?
Because, and we'll kind of get into it later, but that there's
this whole convergence now of physical and cybersecurity.
Yeah.
Because, you know, someone can find your front door by just doing
a Google, a Google search now.
Um, and so we do that.
We go through, um, we remove you from the internet.
Um, we do dark web, deep web, social media monitoring for
doxing, hyper-focused on doxing.
Right.
We'll get into that a little bit later too, what that means.
Um, but then it, you know, in short, we, we kind of reduce the risk, right?
Your personal risk, um, whether it's an organization or a person, we're
reducing the risk of someone doing physical harm to the person, right?
Yeah.
To, you know, and that's kind of where, what it all boils down to.
Um, but we actually, you know, we're all special operations
veterans for the most part.
Uh, we kind of got into this business because we were the
bad guys at one point in time.
I've, you know, targeted people like I, I've been on the other side
of it where we're, we're trying to find the information on it so
we have this unique perspective of how would the bad guy do it?
Yeah.
You know, what is, what are the, the, the, um, the bad guys doing now?
Best practices for us and just kinda reverse engineer it.
Um, 360 Privacy actually started as a physical security
company here in Nashville.
Okay.
Uh, for, you know, musicians and high profile individuals.
And we actually used what are now competitors of us trying to stitch
'em all together 'cause they're, you know, they're really good programs
for, for me, honestly, and my mom, you know, I'm not famous or anything.
Um, but for the high profile people, there was not a solution.
Where, you know, one, you didn't have to do, do like a power of
attorney or driver's license.
Mm-hmm.
It was super cumbersome to get enrolled.
But then also, you know, the, they would only remove from a quarter of the sites.
You know, they would kind of do that top layer, very consumer base.
And so we started stitching a bunch of other.
Solutions together just to kind of see if we can, you know,
we, we needed this to happen.
Um, and in, uh, 2019, Adam, our CEO and founder, he kind of just said, screw it.
You know, let's, let's just build it, you know, build our own nice.
And so we built our own algorithm.
We built our own solution.
DevEd everything in house.
Everything's here in Nashville.
And it's purely because we've sat in your seat as the manager, whether it's
physical security, you know, whatever.
We, we moved into the digital space.
And created a solution because there just wasn't anything out there.
Right?
Yeah.
Needed to be end to end, needed to be, have like high touch customer service.
Um, and it's just, we've been rocking and rolling ever since.
That's, that's great.
I mean, that's, you see some of the best companies built that way where you're
endemic to this space, but you see the problem set or, Hey, how do we put
these three or four companies together?
But there's still a missing link there, right?
Yeah.
Why don't we build something that encompasses everything together?
Mm-hmm.
One point of clarification, you said you guys were on the bad guy side.
Yeah.
To be very clear, the bad guy side for the United States.
Yes, that's right.
Going after the opposite.
We were the bad guys.
Targeting the bad guys.
Yes, exactly.
Okay.
Just wanted to clarify that.
A good clarifying statement there.
Uh, um, and I've heard some really cool stories that we won't get
into here 'cause we probably can't say it publicly, but, uh, yeah.
If you ever get in a room with these guys, they, they can tell a story.
So, um, that's great.
I mean, just hearing the background of how it started from the physical
to now, like kind of the digital side.
Uh, how about now, like, what is the, the main focus, if you're gonna go
have a conversation with a new, let's say, let's be very specific, right?
I know you work on the, the corporate side as well, and that's
a big part of your guys' business.
But for who we're talking to today, the, the professional athlete.
You start working with a professional athlete family, like
what does that service look like?
Like what are you physically and digitally doing for them that's
going to help protect them?
I think the conversation immediately starts with, you know, we help
keep them their private lives.
Private.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, that's kind of the, the step in the door without getting
into the weeds and the technology.
Um, but it's making sure that their lives stay private and
they, they keep ownership of it.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, we will get into it a little bit later too, of how we live in this life of,
you know, resentment and how, you know, and entitlement and our, our information.
It's not ours anymore, right.
It's, it's in the ether.
It's on, on the internet, social media, whatever it may be.
But then you have, you know, Nick here who actually works with
the athletes and gets down into, like, puts hands on devices Yeah.
And kind of talk through some of the stuff that we do for the, for our clients.
Yeah.
So a lot of it is, uh, focused around education, like educating
the client on best practices, uh, some trends that we're seeing as far
as, uh, the threat landscape goes.
Okay.
Um, but a lot of it is focused on reducing their digital footprint.
Yeah.
Which reduces the attack surface.
So.
Uh, providing the, the best practices, uh, showing them, for example, the phone
going through the hardening on the phone.
Um, the intent is not to turn this phone into a paperweight.
It's a smart phone.
We want it to do the smart things, uh, but there's a better way, uh, in a safer
way to carry it around your pocket.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then just some online tendencies and habits that.
Especially a family.
Yeah.
With teenagers maybe that have a device now.
Um, some things that they can change a little bit.
That's not necessarily a lifestyle change, but it's an easy enough adjustment that's
gonna keep the family a lot safer online.
Yeah.
No, that, I mean, when you guys showed, walked us through some of the
security settings on the phone and like what gets tracked by different apps,
it's, it's mind blowing to see it is.
I think by fault, they're just, they're designed to share as
much data as they possibly can.
Yeah.
Maybe go through a little bit of like, what if that information
falls into the wrong hands?
What can happen?
Well, so specifically speaking to professional athletes, their, their
schedules are public information.
Yeah.
Right.
So if I, um, know, for example, a neighborhood that they
are potentially living in.
Maybe, I don't know the exact house.
Um, for, for my piece, when I show, you know, go visit these clients,
the education part that I was talking about, identifying, making sure they
understand like, hey, if you have your network as your name and I don't know
which house is yours, but I slow roll through the neighborhood, and then that
wifi network pops up with your name.
Now I know exactly where you live.
Yeah.
Um, but.
The the PII removal piece, that, that personal information, the home address,
the phone number, the email, all of those data points are things that
somebody can aggregate and then show up to the house on the front porch.
Show up while the athlete is gone for, you know, a week or two at a time.
Yeah.
Depending on the schedule.
And it's not a risk elimination, right?
No, it's, it's mitigation minimization because we are, I
mean, it's 2025, almost 2026.
Like there's, there are things on the internet that's just
not gonna be able to take down.
Right.
Yeah.
We all have had social media.
There's, but.
We can definitely take back control of your data, right?
To where, again, someone can't just Google where your house is or walk through the
neighborhood and look for what the wifi, if it's your last name, or, um, you
know, we had a very unfortunate incident.
You talk about the family, right?
Yeah.
There's a lot, oftentimes with athletes, there's, it's always focused
on the athlete, but really the, the, the victims are oftentimes the
families because maybe they're not on the road, they're back at home.
Um, and so focusing some of what we do here on the holistic family mm-hmm.
As a unit, um, it was a very unfortunate incident where, uh, an individual, you
know, their phones were set up improperly.
They, they were using, you know, a very easily guessable password.
Um, and, and someone was able to gain access to, uh, this individual's phone.
Um, and you know, as Apple, we all, I love Apple 'cause it
all, it talks to one another.
It's an ease.
It's always like this, this balance of, of, of, uh, usability and, and security.
But because, uh, this person's child had a MacBook, uh, that was issued
by the school, well then it was on the family share plan on the phone.
Well then that individual now knows where the kid goes to school.
Yeah.
And showed up to the school and.
Gave the, the, the child a note saying like, Hey, make
sure you give this to your dad.
Right?
Like it's, it's just mind blowing how these things, just because you know,
you don't have two factor on you have an easy password or if you, you know, one
of my favorite, you know, the security questions, um, one I've seen over the,
over the years is, you know, what was my least favorite vegetable as a child?
You know what, what, what can you imagine?
Take a guess.
I mean, I'd say 80% of people are gonna say broccoli.
Broccoli.
Yeah.
Boom.
That was literally the answer.
And they were, you know, it wasn't hacking these days isn't like this, you
know, this super spy type thing, like that broccoli, like that's hacking.
You know?
And so social engineering, uh, is much more prevalent now than anything else.
And so it's just being able to put up walls mm-hmm.
And protect your, your family, uh, from.
Little bitty things like that.
Yeah.
'cause it's, it's kind of like a, you know, a lock on
your bike, you know the chain.
Right.
If someone really wants to steal your bike, they're just gonna go cut the chain.
Yeah.
And so you just wanna make sure that it's tough enough to where
that person, you know, maybe just too much time and resource, he's
just gonna go to the next bike.
Yeah.
Right.
So that's kind of, you know, where we're focusing on and building plans around
is one, giving back, you know, control of your information to the client.
But then two, putting up actual safeguards so that someone can't just roll up to
your house or give your child a note.
Right.
So, yeah, I mean that's an extremely scary, uh, situation, obviously.
Yeah.
And we wanna prevent that or do everything you can to mitigate that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, are there other situ, I mean, that's the physical side, like Right.
What about talking 'em through like stealing social security numbers?
Yeah.
And like, uh, I don't know, opening up bank accounts or trying
to make, you know, fraudulent.
Yeah.
Charges, that type of thing.
Yeah.
So we have, we talked about doxing earlier a little bit, right?
So we, you know, every week now there's a new data breach, right?
There's a new this, new that.
And so this doxing or this, this, uh, the ability to get your information
on, on the dark web, deep web or when the breaches, all that information
is stuff that you would use to fill out a credit requests, right?
Or fill out for a new credit card.
And so it's just as easy.
Now with AI to be able to either spoof somebody's name or face or, and if you
just have just enough information, you're gonna be able to beat some of these
security questionnaires or the person on the phone who, you know, it's not
malicious, they're just doing their job.
Yeah.
And then the next thing you know, you're out however much money or, and oftentimes.
What we've seen, especially with athletes, you know, there, there are things in
place to either prevent it or they're gonna get their money back eventually,
but it's just, it's the reputational harm.
It is a, you know, kind of a pain in the butt to, to do,
and so that it's just a hassle.
And so there's, yes, to your point, there's the physical security
aspect of it, but then there's, you know, what is your, you the asset?
Is it, what are you worried about?
Is it reputation?
Is it financial?
All of these things stem from.
You know, your information being out there.
Yeah, I mean I think that reputation's one thing and obviously we all wanna
be aware of that, but the, the time and headache, I mean, big part of like
my job, a big part of the job around a professional athlete is really high
level of expertise, but also really high level of convenience to let that
person perform at the highest level.
And if they're dealing with, you know, they got a hundred thousand
dollars fraudulent charge that yeah, hopefully we get it back or they
get it back, that type of thing.
But it might take six months.
Yeah.
Like the amount of.
Yeah, just brain capacity that's being used for that to deal with it.
It's just that much less focus on performing at the highest level
where they might make 10 x that.
Exactly.
Um, and that's the difference.
So yeah.
I mean, I guess you brought up a good point when it's not just the
specific athlete, it's the whole family and the surrounding people
that are in their inner circle.
Mm-hmm.
I remember, you know, some of the stories you've told me in the past, like.
When you guys were going after a high level target or asset mm-hmm.
Back in the military, it was typically somebody in their inner circle.
Yeah.
You get to them through not necessarily that exact person.
Mm-hmm.
Um, how, how big, tight, or big of a circle should that security.
Uh, sped or like bolded for, I'll let you jump in there.
I usually, what I say is whatever they're comfortable with Yeah.
They're their immediate ecosystem.
Yeah.
Spouse, kids.
There's a live-in grandmother, you know.
Mm-hmm.
An executive assistant or personal assistant, somebody
that has access to your records.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, you know, are is just as important as the, the individual because what I,
what I've found over the years is, you know, whether it's the athlete or the.
High profile individual, they're usually much more aware and cautious
and they know what they're doing.
But there's someone in that ecosystem who their awareness is very low.
Right?
Yeah.
And that's, they're the soft target.
That's the weekly, yeah.
And you know, typically it's, it's an EA or it's an estate manager or
somebody like that that has access to everything, but they don't have the
awareness, like Ben said, or, um, the training or you know, the, just the.
Yeah.
Understanding that the threat is there and they are probably the, the issue that
a lot of people run into is that they think like, oh, I'm not important enough.
Yeah.
So nobody's coming after me.
Um, but that's exactly why we would go after that person.
Yeah.
Because they have that mindset.
Yeah.
Or if I had a nipple for every time someone said, I don't have Facebook.
I'm not on the internet.
Yeah.
You know?
It's like, well, you have a phone, you have a credit card.
You know, every time you swipe your credit card, that data is being sold on the
back end, not maliciously for additional revenue from all of these companies.
And so, and it is not illegal.
Right.
And that's what's crazy.
That's what's crazy about it.
It's just, you know, data is the new oil and it is a thriving business.
Um, and so if it's left on checks, it can be very dangerous.
Yeah.
I think, you know, and I'm not trying to jump.
Around too much.
But this is, it's, it all relates, you know, what we've seen in the news,
a lot of the break-ins at mm-hmm.
You know, N-F-L-M-L-B-N-B-A Player Houses, and I think it's in the news because
these guys all do press conferences after their games or midweek press conferences.
And so it comes out, you know, from the inner circle.
A lot of golfers have had the same issue lately.
Mm-hmm.
Over this past year, two years.
What can they, you know, we've talked a little bit about, hey, how do we
get our, our home address off the web?
You know, from our standpoint, like we, anytime a player or one of our
clients is gonna buy a new home, like we're setting up privacy trust or
making sure that it's bought within an LLC that doesn't tie back to them.
What are some other things they can do when, hey, the whole world knows if.
Let's say they live in Florida and the whole world knows they're
playing in California that week.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and they're playing signed up to play the next two weeks.
So, hey, they might be gone for a month.
What can they be doing to make sure that they're mitigating
their risks as much as possible?
Um, one,
people tend to find this funny, it's, you know, with Uber or GrubHub
or any of these delivery services.
Which you use when you're out.
You don't have to put your real name.
Yeah, right.
That's people, you know.
There's not like, you know, and even security questions, you know, people,
there's not a security question.
Police, like, you don't have to tell the truth on those.
You just have to have the answer.
Same thing with, you know, these apps and things that you're
getting delivered or using.
You know, you don't need to put, I highly suggest all of our ultra high-net-worth
and high profile individuals do not put your first name, last name, or anything.
And one, it's going to sever that tie on the data brokers and mm-hmm.
You know, all that.
But just from a, just from a personal standpoint, you know, if you put.
You know, insert Hall of Famer, household name.
Yeah.
On the delivery or, or whatever it may be.
That person delivering it is looking at it, thinking like,
oh my gosh, I'm about to meet.
Yeah.
Tom Brady or, or whoever, tiger Woods, whatever it may be.
You know, you, you don't have to do that.
I actually, we, I gave a class to one of our, our, our athletes, and
now I'm on my phone at the autofill.
I actually put Batman on it and had something delivered to the
office while we were talking.
I actually forgot to change it.
And then it was a couple days later, I had something delivered and the
guy was like, this is for, uh, Mr.
Batman.
So, you know, you don't have to have it on there.
And that's something that's so easy for people to, to change and then it
directly affects their day to day.
But yeah, I think, um, just trying to anonymize mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The aspects of their life in any way.
Is extremely helpful and extremely beneficial.
Having a healthy sense of skepticism as well.
Yeah, so like not connecting your phone to open wifi, um, just, uh,
understanding that not everything out there is for your, in your best interest.
Right.
If it's free, it's typically not.
Yeah.
This is America.
If it's free, you are the product.
Right.
They're taking something from you, uh, generally and so, like for instance,
when athletes are, are, are traveling.
You know, um, almost every phone and, uh, cellular, uh, uh, network and, and
subscription comes with wifi, right?
Yeah.
You know, like you create a hops hotspot.
Um, and so one, you know, treat your, your devices like you would
the keys to your house, right?
Yeah.
You would not go to some random person on the street that you didn't
know and say, Hey, here's my keys.
Can you hold these for an hour?
Don't plug your phone in to something that you don't own or
know to charge or to use the wifi.
Right.
But think of the damage you can do just from logging into things.
And that's one of the mindset shifts I try to get all of our clients.
Mm-hmm.
Is like, you need to treat your phone and your devices like an
extension of you and your family.
And be like, your keys to your car, you know, you wouldn't leave the
house and not only leave the door unlocked, but leave it wide open.
Yeah.
Right.
So you wanna kind of have that same mentality with, with all of your devices
because it's, everything's there.
Yeah.
One of the things you guys showed us was even, like, I never really thought
about plugging to charge my phone.
Mm-hmm.
The USB stick into something when really that the reason that USB outlet is made
is the transfer data not to change.
Yep.
And so just even having like a, an adapter to remove the data transmission part
of it, and it's, it that's a little bit more down, you know, the tinfoil hats
of, you know, everyone's out to get me.
However, the reality is is, you know, the, that is a very easy targeting vector
for people, especially at airports.
Yep.
Around hotels where you have transient people.
You know, I just, I just wouldn't trust it.
Right.
You know, there, there are data, um, blockers that you can use.
Um, but just like the best thing is just use the traditional plug, you know?
Yeah.
Um, because to your point, you know that that's meant to transfer data
and you don't know what's coming in or out of, behind that wall, so Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of these guys and families, they're either staying
in hotels for weeks at a time.
Yeah.
Or a lot, a lot more Airbnbs.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the initial trust is, oh, once I'm inside that door, it's safe.
Right.
That's not necessarily the case.
And again, to be very clear, like we're not trying to scare everybody.
Right.
We're trying to like No, absolutely.
Just awareness.
This is like 98% of the time you're in a good spot.
Yeah.
But being realistic that as a high profile athlete you are at
a bigger, higher target risk.
Mm-hmm.
And so, yeah, we don't need to put the tinfoil hat on.
Yeah.
We don't need to wrap ourselves in bubble tape.
Yeah.
But we do need to make sure that if there's little things we can be doing
to protect ourselves and not be.
As you say, like metaphorically handing our house keys.
Yeah.
To anybody that's walking around.
Then let's try and take those steps.
And there's this study too, I think it's called the Truth Default Method, or TR
Truth Default Theory, where like humans, we trust people more than we should, and
we also lie more than we think we do.
And so there's this weird gray area where, to your point, like
as soon as you walk into that Airbnb, you're like, oh, I'm safe.
Yeah.
You know, like, oh.
No one would, you know, why would someone target me?
Or, you know, we just, you don't get in that mindset and you trust that person and
you, we just really shouldn't, especially in those, in those situations, because
unfortunately, the, the harsh reality is there's, you know, unstable people out
there that do, you know, crazy things.
Maybe it may not be malicious too, maybe it may have good intentions, but
still, you know, you just wanna have a good, healthy sense of skepticism
and awareness when you're traveling.
Um, just because our life is, you know, meant everything around us is meant to
take data and to take things, right?
Yeah.
Where we don't really have to.
Yeah.
I mean, to your point, it may not be, that person may not think
they're doing it maliciously.
Right.
It may just be a super fan.
Exactly.
It really wants to meet you and really wants to be around you and like, thinks
that, to your point earlier, like the entitlement factor of like, hey, he's a,
he's a professional golfer, he's on tv.
I should be allowed to go up to him and say hi and shake his hand and it
doesn't matter, there's a rope up and he's in the middle of his practice run.
Right.
Or that he just walked into his hotel and expects to have some sense of privacy.
Yeah.
I watched him come in, I'm gonna follow him up the elevator
and go knock on his door.
Like not okay.
Yeah, obviously, but it's some of those things that we're
trying to be able to Yeah.
You know, use an alias like kind of, and a little bit goes a long way,
fictitious story that, you know, like almost an alternate truth.
Mm-hmm.
Of like, Hey, here's the fake.
Alias and story that I can use for all the security profiles and that type of thing.
And this is, I mean, 100% is like, you can scratch this as long as you want.
It's just gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Yeah.
Um, but you know, just to have some, anything you do is gonna
be better than 99% of America.
Right?
Yeah.
Like just these individ, like if you just switched up the apps on your
phone, or two factor authentication, like that little bit of effort goes
so far because nine times out of 10.
To your point, it's not malicious, maybe a super fan, but as soon as
they feel resistance and they're like, oh, this person, it's too
hard to, to get close to 'em.
Yeah.
They're just going to pivot to someone who doesn't have anything in place.
Right?
Yeah.
So this, the smallest amount of effort actually goes the longest way because 99%
of the time, they're going to choose the path of lease resistance when it comes
close to gaining access or getting close.
What, what, at least what I found.
Yeah.
And, and most of those little changes that can be made are essentially
unnoticeable to, to the user, you know, to the, to the individual.
Yeah.
So because our, our whole intent is always to, um, provide the least amount
of disruption in their day to day.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not require any necessarily lifestyle changes or anything like that.
Just very simple little changes that can be made that most likely the
person next to them hasn't done.
Yeah.
Um, so they're all automatically gonna be a harder target Yeah.
Than the person, you know, their neighbor, for example.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I think your, your metaphor or your example of the bike, like if
you have a locked bike and there's a bike next to that's not locked.
Yeah.
They're probably just gonna take the other bike, right?
They're not gonna take the time to go get bolt cutters, come back, risk the
chance of getting caught, like let's, you know, path of least resistance.
So trying to just make it a little bit more difficult.
Yeah.
All the heavy lifting, you know, to, we do, you know, the removal,
uh, all of that, you know, that's kind of the reason why we do it, is
because again, we sat in your shoes.
We've been on the other side from a management perspective.
You know, as soon as something becomes cumbersome.
Yeah.
Especially with high profile individuals, they're just not gonna do it.
And so one money well spent and then two, just getting in that mindset of
like the little things that matter and then let us take on those big
projects while the athlete goes back to doing what they get paid for.
Right.
You know?
Yeah, exactly.
Giving them back not only the the, the mental space and clarity.
But also it's going to immediately impact whatever they're doing, you
know, they're getting paid to do.
Yeah.
I think we've, like with our clients that, and you know, working with
you guys with some of our clients over the years, like we've had some
interesting to say the least stories.
Yes, yes.
Um, I think maybe even just share a little bit of like, in certain situations,
like what's the best thing to do?
Like I.
Hm.
Won't name client, but they thought they were getting, you know, they
thought they had an intruder.
Mm-hmm.
Call the cops first, right?
Yeah.
First line of defense.
Yeah.
Like, let's be very clear, unless you have private security,
like, yeah, call the cops first.
Um, but what about like, you get a weird text or a weird phone call.
Mm-hmm.
That's like kind of stalker-ish, that type of thing.
What, what are kind of some best practices there?
So again, if I could encourage people, just get into the mindset of, of.
Holding on and controlling your information, because what'll happen
is, you know, you get this cognitive tunneling where you'll get on a call
and they're gonna start asking you these questions, and then you don't have time
to, to think, or, and it's just easier.
Uh, my, my, my birthday is, yeah, oh four, you know, you know, and before
you know it, you've started giving this information, and that is a tactic, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so what I tend to tell people is take a breath.
Um, if it is a sense of urgency, whether it's a phone call or a text message
and they're gonna try to scare you into it, that's kind of a red flag, right?
Never give out your information if you get a random phone call that you're not
expecting, um, also ask for the reference number and then hang up, and then go
to the website and call their number and say, Hey, I just got a phone call.
Nine times outta 10.
You'll be able to find out if it's a real conversation or not.
Um.
And then, you know, I think too from, you know, from our mutual clients and,
and, and others in this world, uh, social media is a big part of their lives.
Yeah.
Right?
Um, and so there's some very small things you can do.
We were talking about before we've started recording Yeah.
Of, you know, if you're doing an interview and it's being broadcast
to millions of people, ensure that whatever's behind you isn't.
You know, personal, right?
If there's families of your, or photos of your family or you know, whatever
background, or if you're doing something on social media for content, just be aware
that there are people out there that will pay attention to the backyard or the fence
posts and be able to, you know, put that together and, and find you physically.
So there's just some little bitty things to be aware of that can
make again, the biggest difference.
Yeah.
Um, and again, when those phone calls, it's like, take a breath.
Right.
Unless it is an intruder in your house, for sure.
Call the cops.
Yeah.
But other than that, generally take a breath and then take an action.
Right?
Yeah.
Don't, if there's a sense of urgency, that's what they want.
Take a breath, call you guys, call us, whatever.
Find a trusted resource Yep.
Um, to take that print on.
And that's, you know, nine times outta 10 that's gonna clear everything up.
Yeah.
And always, always verifying through a separate.
Source, you know?
Right.
So whether it's the phone call or the text message, um, maybe it seems
legitimate, maybe it's just kind of weird, you know, not really sure.
Um, just take a different avenue to, to confirm, uh, whether that's going
through, go directly to the website or if you get the text message, call,
whatever the, the, the number is, you know, through, uh, official sources not.
Don't go through the text message.
Yeah.
Don't click the the link.
Don't click the link in the message.
So, and worst case scenario, take a screenshot and send it to a bus.
Yeah.
Like that's, I mean, there, it's getting pretty creative the way that it, they're
sending stuff out and I, AI for Yeah.
I mean, the days of, of getting an email that looks like a 5-year-old
wrote the email or long gone, um, you know, AI has changed the game
dramatically when it comes to phishing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they're, they're doing massive.
Phishing campaigns now where they're sending the same text message to
thousands of numbers at the same time, just to see what sticks, you know?
Yeah.
Hoping somebody will bite.
Absolutely.
They're, they're waiting for you to present yourself as a soft target, right?
Yeah.
You know, you're not, it's not you, you, they don't know who you are.
You're just a number on a spreadsheet.
But if you reply to that and you engage with it, and you present yourself
as being a soft target, you're now gonna make it to the next level.
And that's when it will get more personal.
Yeah.
You know, and so if you, again, just the bare minimum, you know, you're, they're,
they're gonna focus on other people.
I think to your point, a lot of times they try to make it look semi-urgent.
Yes.
Or semi like, not dangerous from the message, but like, hey, like
this needs to be responsible.
Yeah.
Responded to you, otherwise you're gonna get some sort of penalty or owe a
lot more money or something like that.
It's like, oh shoot.
Like I need to act.
Right now, from March to May, the amount of phone calls that
go out saying this is the IRS.
Yep.
Talking about your taxes, you're just like, oh my goodness, I
thought I, you know, whatever.
Yeah.
But they're, what they're doing is they're hoping that they're gonna call somebody
who's, you know, driving down the road.
There's four kids crying, you know, they're, you're like the cognitive
tunneling, and they're just like, and so, you know, we just need,
can you verify this information?
And you got everything else going on, and you're like, yeah, here's my day
to like, what, what is this again?
Yeah.
You know, that's what they're hoping for.
And it's, again, if you can just take a break, take a pause, verify it
through either a third party or you know, the, the actual app, you know,
that's gonna go the night and it's gonna make a night and day difference.
Yeah.
The, the advancement of like, the technology to do, I mean, I,
this is crazy, like 15 years ago.
Mm-hmm.
And trust me, I was not a high profile at Target based on my talent, but.
When I was playing, my grandmother got a phone call mm-hmm.
Of, Hey, Aaron's stuck in jail in Mexico.
I was actually in a different country, but we need $10,000
wired right now to get 'em out.
And like I'm sure that was a very popular one and I don't think it even
had anything to do with who I was.
It was just that random, you were on a list that was on the same
a thousand text message thing.
It was just what they used to do.
That scenario is still relevant today.
Yeah.
But it's, it's even enhanced because of ai.
Now they're cloning voices.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they're cloning phone number, they're cloning everything.
So when grandma looks down, maybe your name is popping up on the caller ID
because they've cloned your phone number.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when she answers and it's your voice, why would she not believe it's you?
Yeah.
Um, but it's all AI driven.
Crazy.
Yeah.
Uh, one thing you brought up in that last example that I
think we should touch on is.
You know, in this more like social media marketing age.
Mm-hmm.
Like especially on the golf side, a lot of their income comes from endorsements
and there's an expectation of being a good partner with your sponsors.
And some of that has to do with a little bit of like inside
look at their personal lives.
Mm-hmm.
But I think there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.
And like you can give an inside look your personal life without
giving up any of your privacy.
Uh, may gimme the example we were talking about before of like a green screen or
like even just not showing, like if you're gonna, it's okay to maybe show a little
bit of the inside of your house, but don't show them like the a hundred thousand
dollars hard piece you have or, yeah.
Or don't something.
Do TikTok video in their front yard with your mailbox.
Or like little bitty things like that where you, you can make it again, the
biggest difference in the small things.
Um, a green screen, making sure that if you're doing a video inside the home,
that there's nothing, you know, there's nothing of value, there's nothing just
gonna make, present yourself as a, as a soft target, but then just whatever
your level of comfortability is.
Right?
Yeah.
'cause some people, some people are a lot more comfortable with having
the inside of their homes and maybe family photos, but if, if that's
something to you that you're worried about, just taking those additional
steps and making sure that your team.
Prioritizes that when they're building out the content.
Yeah.
Or you know, whatever drip campaign like is.
I think nine times out 10, if the athlete or the person just expresses
that, Hey, I do wanna maintain some sort of privacy, no team's gonna look
at 'em and say like, well, sorry.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, I just think that oftentimes people just don't bring it up
because they don't want to feel.
Like they, um, you know, whether it's demanding or, you know,
they, they want to, they want to do it for the brand, right?
Yeah.
They just feel bad for asking.
But again, nobody on that side of the house is gonna look the other way.
If like you just say, Hey, I'd like to have some sort of privacy.
Yeah.
Some sort of security.
Um, 'cause we work with a lot of those teams where it is a balance of
security versus access to the family.
Um, but again.
You know, just being cognizant when you turn your camera on that there's
probably something behind you.
You know, have a wall behind you, or if you're making a video, just look at
the, before you post it, look at the background and see what's, what's there.
Yeah.
If you want it to be like your office, your trophy, yeah, that's totally fine.
Sure.
Like it's, you know, don't have your watch cabinet standing there
with your three Rolex, whatever.
Like, just don't, don't show the targets and Yeah.
And make it that much more of a like.
Gold mine of like, Hey, this is something that I want to go after
TV trips if I'm the bad guy.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, it's something as simple as like a custom fireplace mantle can give away or
can help someone find where that house is.
Um, just by, by reverse it, searching that image and you know, I mean there's
actually an example where it did happen.
Because of the fireplace mantle.
Yeah.
Uh, and my past real estate photo, like Yeah, yeah.
Home sale.
There was a, they, this person posted a photo inside their home and it was up, it
was like around Christmas or something.
It was like stockings or whatever.
Harmless photo.
But it was, you know, a very ornate fireplace.
And so they just took that photo, did a reverse image search, and there was a,
like a real estate posting to your point.
From previously and all of a sudden now you know where the person lives.
You know, it's just little bitty things that, yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah.
I think it's more the, Hey, we're gonna come to a video shoot for the whole day.
Like they're pretty got, people are trained a little bit better
now of like, Hey, let's make sure the privacy stuff needs.
Yeah.
I think the awareness is definitely there.
Yeah.
It's more the like.
The things they're nothing about the quick like, Hey, I'm gonna do a five
minute interview with the golf channel.
Yeah.
I just need to set up for five minutes.
Or you know, hey, some YouTube mm-hmm.
Influencer, I agreed to do 30 minutes of like how I get ready for the day.
That type of going live do.
Yeah.
And it's like, oh, not that many people watch that.
Yeah.
Well that's probably exactly what the, exactly that guys are looking for because
your guard's down that type of thing.
So That's exactly right.
It shows the backyard shows.
Oh, I'm on a golf course.
Okay.
What golf courses is it that that's pretty.
Easy to figure out.
Now all of a sudden, I know what your backyard looks like and oh, I can
just pop that fence and get right in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, and it's, you know, in this age now where you are expected
to give out all that information and, and put all it out there.
Just again, if I could, if I've said it once, I'll say until we end the show,
you know, for anyone listening, it's in that, that high profile category.
Just having the smallest amount of effort of checking the videos,
checking your background, not.
Putting your, you know, the anonymizing certain things when
you're ordering, like, that's gonna make the biggest difference in life.
Yeah, no, that's a good point.
Um, I mean, we could go hours on this Yeah.
And probably scare people.
Yeah.
Straight.
Um, where they never wanna leave their house and, you know, put up a blockade.
That's not the point.
Again, don't wanna do that.
No.
What, let's, let's give like three quick, I kind of summarize three
action items, like other than.
You know, if you work with a WM, like, and you know us, you know, anything
on the finance side is coming from us.
Like, you ever get that random text or call, your instructions are basically
like, hang up, call me, call whoever your person is that you deal with directly.
If you're working with 360 privacy, it's very similar.
Like you get something weird like that, you hang up, you call Nick, or you call
Ben and hey, what should we be doing here?
But for those that aren't necessarily working with either of us yet, and that's
what they, you know, Hey, I'm interested.
Other than going to like, reach out to you guys and we'll put
your contact in the show notes.
Yeah.
And, and ours as well.
What's like, what are three quick summarization of like action items?
Like hardening the phone?
Yeah.
I would say one mindset shift of just getting the mindset of it.
It's not expected that you have to give your information out all the time
on every app doing all the things.
One.
And that's super easy to do.
And that's free of charge, right?
Yeah.
Just changing your mindset.
The second thing that I try to tell everybody is when your phones start
treating your phones like it, the keys to your car, keys to your house,
because of the access that it has.
And when you are connecting, whether it's Bluetooth, wifi, or a physically
connecting it to something, ask yourself these three questions.
Is it yours?
Is it secure?
Is it free?
Right?
If it's free, what did we say?
You wrote the product one time more often than not.
Is it secure?
Does it have a, does it need a password?
Is it yours?
Like, is it your wifi?
If you can, uh, confidently answer those, then by all means, that's
something that you should connect your phone to and be comfortable.
If you cannot, then do not do it right.
There's, there's really no room for error there.
Um, and then I'll, you know, if you kick in one Yeah.
And just, uh, it, it's, it's kind of a blanket thing,
but anonymize where you can.
Yeah.
Um, so whether it's online ordering or your home network, having the
SSID as your name, like Yeah.
Try to get, get away from, um, tying every piece of your life to who you are.
Um, and it is just because it's just, it's gonna go a long way.
Yeah.
Um, trying to, trying to cut those, those ties.
Yeah.
I, that brings, I mean, even personally, like, I'm gonna change
it before this podcast goes live.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm okay saying this, but like, I don't think I ever even
changed the password on my route.
Wifi router.
Yeah.
It came outta the box.
Like it was pretty basic and just, but it was weird.
So I was like, all right, we'll just leave it and no one's gonna guess that.
Well, guess what?
I'm sure it's on some database somewhere.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, yeah, but it'll be changed in the next 24 hours.
There we go.
As soon as I get home.
Um, and the other thing you were talking about, Uber Eats and, and
like delivery, that type of thing.
I didn't even think about this, but like, same with Amazon.
Like, oh, everybody's getting Amazon packages, everybody
multiple a day probably.
And it's like, yeah, you need to pay for it with something, but that doesn't
mean that has to be the delivery name.
Exactly.
Yeah.
No, and it's oftentimes the, when, you know, even when you're buying things, and
I know there's gonna be some outliers, but when you purchase things online,
most of the time it just has to like your, it's either the name and zip code
or like the, you don't have to bill out everything absolutely correctly.
We did a whole experiment on it.
Um, but, but yeah, like little bitty things like that where you just, you know,
don't put your real information out there.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Uh, and one thing that we can do as well is we have hardening guides.
You know, we talked about the phone hardening.
We have a link to the hardening guides, whether you have like a Samsung or an
iPhone or whatever it may be, that we can also link, uh, that people want
to go through and, and harden their phones, you know, after the show.
That'd be awesome.
Yeah, we'll, we'll definitely attach that and put that out there.
'cause I could probably use a refresh too, even what we were talking about earlier.
Every time Apple does an update.
Yeah, yeah.
Your settings get reset.
Yeah.
Like that blew my mind.
I was like, oh, I already hardened my phone two years ago.
Yeah.
Probably not very hard anymore.
Yeah.
So, well, well, thank you guys.
Appreciate you being on, this is super important and I know it's
gonna generate a lot of conversation, so look forward to hopefully,
uh, troubleshooting some things.
That's right.
And most importantly, preventing Absolutely any, you know.
God forbid any physical security breaches, but even the digital ones
that we wanna try to prevent and protect everybody's, uh, privacy
and finances and everything else.
So yeah.
Thanks for being on.
Yeah, thanks for having us.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
See you in soon.