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Welcome to the

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Honest Money Show.

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Thanks to our sponsor, Bitaroo

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for making today's

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episode possible.

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Australia's biggest Bitcoin

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on the exchange.

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John, I have waited

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this for you. John.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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I know I do.

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Great to be with you.

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And, congratulations

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on getting this,

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getting your new podcast

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up and running.

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Yeah.

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If if it wasn't

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for the support

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from the community,

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I never would have done it

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because there were

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so many moments

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that I wanted to back out,

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and it was everyone's spirit

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that carried me through.

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It got to push through it.

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Yep. Yeah.

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So I wanted to

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chat to you about.

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I noticed that

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on your social media

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you posted recently

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that you did

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a talk at a crypto event.

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I wanted to know

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how that went. I did.

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So originally I was

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contacted by a young member

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of the University

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of New South Wales,

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cryptocurrency club.

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I apologize,

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I haven't got the exact

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words of the acronym correct,

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but you get the idea.

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They don't. Most of these.

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This is probably true

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of all universities,

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and it's been true of

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people outside of our

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Bitcoin community

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for a long time.

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Does it

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they're almost allergic

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to the word bitcoin.

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And so they're always

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using the word crypto

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which means that they can

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then really

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what they end up talking about

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is really nothing

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to do with Bitcoin at all.

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It's all of these

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other kind of Rube

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Goldberg machines

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and other things

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that rode on

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Bitcoin's coattails,

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pretending to be innovative

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and useful

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and claiming

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to have the features

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that Bitcoin has but doesn't.

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But anyway,

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he got in touch with me.

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I think it was

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basically sort of

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Bitcoin alive

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and my role in that.

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And

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he and I'd

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spoken to him before

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just before Bitcoin alive.

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And I'd managed

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to sort of essentially

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explain what Bitcoin

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was to him.

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And he very quickly, smart guy

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very quickly understood

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how much he'd

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essentially been

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deceived

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by the whole blockchain

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crypto type narrative

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and that bitcoin was the far

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more interesting thing

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to be looking at.

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And so he and a few of his,

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friends from, from university,

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from the university

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crypto group

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came to Bitcoin live.

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So my talk there

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and more recently

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got in touch with me

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and said that there's,

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an event that

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that they're running.

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They're it was an

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it was in combination

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with that

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in conjunction with the new,

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bitcoin exchange that's

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launching locally

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and wanted me to be the,

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the speaker there.

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And so and essentially,

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you know, he

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he knows what I'm all about.

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It's no mystery

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that I'll be there to talk

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about Bitcoin.

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And actually

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it's also make sure

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that I highlighted

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those differences.

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And so

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going along to that

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I kind of had expectations

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that be some

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a degree of apprehension

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or a degree of wailing

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and gnashing of teeth,

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as I put in the tweet,

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about the

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some of the things

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that I would be saying

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about Bitcoin

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as opposed to and,

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and about crypto,

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which wouldn't be necessarily

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particularly flat

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towards the crypto side.

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But before

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I even gave the talk

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I arrived

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in, before

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I even gave the talk,

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the people I spoke to,

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they were very receptive

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to the message.

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In fact,

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even the Ethereum speaker

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admitted that,

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yeah, I've got like, yeah,

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I love bitcoin.

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I've got one more

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Bitcoin and Ethereum. And so,

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and it's almost as though,

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and this is a big change

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from my years in this space,

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because it's not

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the first time

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I've spoken to crypto people.

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In fact,

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although I've never

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sort of really like,

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traded bitcoins

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and all of that sort of thing

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I did when it first

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when the narrative

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first emerged

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that these alternative things,

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I did go along to blockchain

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and crypto type events

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to see what it was all about.

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Now, I never found any

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of a convincing

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because I'd already understood

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the game theory behind Bitcoin

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and why trying to change

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that wouldn't work,

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but I nevertheless

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went along and

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and would often speak

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to a great many crypto

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quote unquote crypto people.

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But often.

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But they were still back

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then, much more,

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you know, way more,

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sure of themselves

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and way more argumentative,

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I think, and way more,

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way more defensive

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at their position

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than, than what

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I found

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this group of people to be

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when I went and gave my talk,

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I even even the exchanges,

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admittedly, it's

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it wasn't a bitcoin

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only exchange.

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This was essentially

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a crypto exchange. And,

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they knew they had my slides.

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They did their credit.

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I mean, they didn't object

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to what I would be saying.

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I did do another talk,

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at another group,

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a few months ago,

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I was at a golf club where

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there was a

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degree of apprehension

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from the crypto

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exchange sponsor

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who wanted me to refrain

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from saying anything

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negative about, crypto.

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The way

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we managed

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to figure out

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a good compromise there.

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But this exchange.

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Not if they didn't try

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to like, you know,

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they didn't

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try to lean on me

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or put any pressure

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of what I should say

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and whether or not, you know,

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I should,

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you know, back down from my,

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you know,

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bitcoin maximalist message.

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Nothing like that.

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I gave the talk and,

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and as I said

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already before

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I even gave the talk,

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people were like,

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you know,

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these are

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things that are sort of

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like common knowledge

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almost among the

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Bitcoin community

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and not common knowledge

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among the crypto communities.

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Right.

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And, and it's

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it doesn't take long

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to sort of start

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putting some

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of the fundamentals

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of Bitcoin to them.

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And they, they come to see

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why the crypto

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narrative is very misguided

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and ultimately isn't working.

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Not that it's

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I can say that it won't work.

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But now after like

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7 or 8 years of this narrative

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going on,

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I can say it isn't working.

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Every narrative they've tried,

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has, has, has failed.

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And I think now

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the the general impression

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I took away

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and what

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a couple of other Bitcoin

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is that that

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came along and supported me.

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Tatum.

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Marcus.

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They were like

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also struck by just how,

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it's almost like

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a degree of capitulation.

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There was in the,

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the very that

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the whole that whole

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as I said,

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I keep using

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that expression,

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that narrative has really,

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it's just not what it was

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and for good reason.

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I mean, like,

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how long can

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people keep getting?

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Absolutely, like curb

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stomped by reality?

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Until you just

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have to accept that

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it is what it is.

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Yep. Yep. Yeah.

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It's so funny

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because as you were speaking,

306
00:06:25,583 --> 00:06:28,041
I was remind myself of the,

307
00:06:28,041 --> 00:06:29,291
there's a tweet that says,

308
00:06:29,291 --> 00:06:30,208
how do you know

309
00:06:30,208 --> 00:06:31,708
which side is in the right?

310
00:06:31,708 --> 00:06:33,083
And then,

311
00:06:33,083 --> 00:06:33,750
or which side

312
00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:34,625
is telling the truth.

313
00:06:34,625 --> 00:06:35,625
It's like usually the,

314
00:06:35,625 --> 00:06:36,083
the side

315
00:06:36,083 --> 00:06:37,333
that's not trying to censor

316
00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:39,500
the other party is. Broadly.

317
00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:40,833
Speaking, the truth. Yeah.

318
00:06:41,875 --> 00:06:42,750
But it's interesting.

319
00:06:42,750 --> 00:06:45,833
I had no idea that, that

320
00:06:45,833 --> 00:06:48,833
the crypto community has,

321
00:06:49,375 --> 00:06:50,791
thinks of, like, you know,

322
00:06:50,791 --> 00:06:52,333
Bitcoin is a dirty word.

323
00:06:52,333 --> 00:06:54,291
I know that in our community,

324
00:06:54,291 --> 00:06:56,083
we don't like the word

325
00:06:56,083 --> 00:06:56,791
expression.

326
00:06:56,791 --> 00:06:57,208
I mean, it's

327
00:06:57,208 --> 00:06:58,041
just that they seem to

328
00:06:58,041 --> 00:06:59,416
just like they

329
00:06:59,416 --> 00:07:00,666
they can't bring themselves

330
00:07:00,666 --> 00:07:02,166
to use it. And I'm trying.

331
00:07:02,166 --> 00:07:03,291
And whenever I talk to them,

332
00:07:03,291 --> 00:07:04,208
I always try to break them

333
00:07:04,208 --> 00:07:05,916
out of the habit by sort of

334
00:07:05,916 --> 00:07:06,750
it sounds like I'm

335
00:07:06,750 --> 00:07:07,708
being pedantic,

336
00:07:07,708 --> 00:07:08,666
but it's very it's

337
00:07:08,666 --> 00:07:10,000
a very important distinction,

338
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:10,541
which I think,

339
00:07:10,541 --> 00:07:11,166
you know,

340
00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:12,500
we in the Bitcoin community

341
00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:13,666
all understand very well,

342
00:07:13,666 --> 00:07:14,500
but they don't.

343
00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:15,333
And so they keep

344
00:07:15,333 --> 00:07:16,500
even when they're describing

345
00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:17,458
what it is that,

346
00:07:17,458 --> 00:07:18,583
that I'm there to talk about.

347
00:07:18,583 --> 00:07:19,166
They keep saying

348
00:07:19,166 --> 00:07:20,125
crypto and I keep having

349
00:07:20,125 --> 00:07:20,958
to convert

350
00:07:20,958 --> 00:07:23,041
correct them back inside.

351
00:07:23,041 --> 00:07:24,583
No it's bitcoin.

352
00:07:25,625 --> 00:07:28,083
And yeah I know like

353
00:07:28,083 --> 00:07:29,750
and people could argue that.

354
00:07:29,750 --> 00:07:30,125
Yes.

355
00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:31,458
Taxonomic

356
00:07:31,458 --> 00:07:34,000
bitcoin is a cryptocurrency.

357
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:34,375
And that's

358
00:07:34,375 --> 00:07:36,333
what crypto is short for.

359
00:07:36,333 --> 00:07:39,166
But we don't call other human

360
00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:41,291
beings animals,

361
00:07:41,291 --> 00:07:43,333
even though taxonomically

362
00:07:43,333 --> 00:07:44,041
human beings

363
00:07:44,041 --> 00:07:44,333
are part

364
00:07:44,333 --> 00:07:46,791
of the animal kingdom.

365
00:07:46,791 --> 00:07:48,833
We only use the word animals

366
00:07:48,833 --> 00:07:50,000
when we're talking about,

367
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:50,333
you know,

368
00:07:50,333 --> 00:07:51,958
all of the non-human animals.

369
00:07:51,958 --> 00:07:52,791
If we're talking about people,

370
00:07:52,791 --> 00:07:54,125
we just say people.

371
00:07:54,125 --> 00:07:54,958
And so therefore,

372
00:07:54,958 --> 00:07:55,583
if you get to

373
00:07:55,583 --> 00:07:57,000
and if you talk about crypto,

374
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:57,666
well,

375
00:07:57,666 --> 00:07:58,250
what you really

376
00:07:58,250 --> 00:07:59,250
then wanting to talk about

377
00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:00,166
is all this extra shit

378
00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:01,000
and all that extra shit

379
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,041
doesn't matter.

380
00:08:02,041 --> 00:08:03,208
Only bitcoin matters.

381
00:08:03,208 --> 00:08:04,041
And therefore

382
00:08:04,041 --> 00:08:05,208
Bitcoin is the only word

383
00:08:05,208 --> 00:08:07,250
you need to use.

384
00:08:07,250 --> 00:08:08,416
Yeah, yeah.

385
00:08:08,416 --> 00:08:09,000
Well I've had

386
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:09,791
a lot of guidance

387
00:08:09,791 --> 00:08:10,875
from the start

388
00:08:10,875 --> 00:08:12,458
from Bitcoin maximalist.

389
00:08:12,458 --> 00:08:14,583
So I avoided that whole

390
00:08:14,583 --> 00:08:17,666
crypto saga all together.

391
00:08:17,666 --> 00:08:17,916
And

392
00:08:19,708 --> 00:08:20,541
I'm interested

393
00:08:20,541 --> 00:08:23,541
to know.

394
00:08:23,958 --> 00:08:25,000
I guess how do I say this.

395
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,666
So in my mind

396
00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:28,250
ultimately I thought

397
00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:28,500
was thinking

398
00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:29,291
about this last night.

399
00:08:29,291 --> 00:08:30,125
And I think

400
00:08:30,125 --> 00:08:32,791
that maybe the crypto

401
00:08:32,791 --> 00:08:34,833
necessarily wasn't a bad thing

402
00:08:34,833 --> 00:08:36,750
because early on in the day,

403
00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:38,750
in the Bitcoin days, people,

404
00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:39,083
you know,

405
00:08:39,083 --> 00:08:40,000
didn't really understand

406
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,166
the protocol very well,

407
00:08:41,166 --> 00:08:41,875
didn't understand

408
00:08:41,875 --> 00:08:43,250
technology very well,

409
00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:45,208
and they sort of

410
00:08:45,208 --> 00:08:45,750
thought that

411
00:08:45,750 --> 00:08:47,125
the slowness of Bitcoin

412
00:08:47,125 --> 00:08:48,791
ease is a is a bug.

413
00:08:48,791 --> 00:08:50,333
And they wanted to

414
00:08:50,333 --> 00:08:51,291
see if they can make

415
00:08:51,291 --> 00:08:52,916
make an improvement on it.

416
00:08:52,916 --> 00:08:55,125
So is it almost like

417
00:08:55,125 --> 00:08:56,250
it's not until

418
00:08:56,250 --> 00:08:58,166
you try to improve and realize

419
00:08:58,166 --> 00:08:59,625
that it fails

420
00:08:59,625 --> 00:09:00,500
spectacularly,

421
00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:02,166
that you realize that.

422
00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:02,541
Yeah,

423
00:09:02,541 --> 00:09:04,083
I get what you're saying, but,

424
00:09:04,083 --> 00:09:05,416
yeah, but the thing is, is

425
00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:05,833
none of that

426
00:09:05,833 --> 00:09:06,875
was ever really true.

427
00:09:06,875 --> 00:09:07,708
I mean,

428
00:09:07,708 --> 00:09:08,916
where the crypto people,

429
00:09:08,916 --> 00:09:09,625
what the crypto

430
00:09:09,625 --> 00:09:10,750
people actually did is made

431
00:09:10,750 --> 00:09:12,083
that whole situation worse.

432
00:09:12,083 --> 00:09:12,833
They spread

433
00:09:12,833 --> 00:09:14,333
that misunderstanding.

434
00:09:14,333 --> 00:09:15,500
They amplified it.

435
00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:15,958
In fact,

436
00:09:15,958 --> 00:09:17,541
they essentially traded

437
00:09:17,541 --> 00:09:18,833
on ignorance

438
00:09:18,833 --> 00:09:19,500
of Bitcoin

439
00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:19,875
in order

440
00:09:19,875 --> 00:09:20,500
to push

441
00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:22,750
their alternative solutions.

442
00:09:22,750 --> 00:09:23,458
It was never a

443
00:09:23,458 --> 00:09:24,541
particularly no.

444
00:09:24,541 --> 00:09:25,916
I mean, in some cases,

445
00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:26,458
people might have

446
00:09:26,458 --> 00:09:27,416
been genuinely,

447
00:09:27,416 --> 00:09:29,250
you know, misguided.

448
00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:30,625
But no, it was a

449
00:09:30,625 --> 00:09:31,375
there were deliberate,

450
00:09:31,375 --> 00:09:32,541
disingenuous attempts

451
00:09:32,541 --> 00:09:33,708
to muddy the waters,

452
00:09:34,791 --> 00:09:36,125
not clarify anything.

453
00:09:36,125 --> 00:09:36,541
And, and

454
00:09:36,541 --> 00:09:37,583
and so the crypto

455
00:09:37,583 --> 00:09:39,416
community itself,

456
00:09:39,416 --> 00:09:40,333
or at least the,

457
00:09:40,333 --> 00:09:41,958
the leaders in that community,

458
00:09:41,958 --> 00:09:42,666
were themselves

459
00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:44,291
responsible for a great deal

460
00:09:44,291 --> 00:09:45,833
of that confusion,

461
00:09:45,833 --> 00:09:46,500
because what they

462
00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:48,041
never admitted was that, yeah,

463
00:09:48,041 --> 00:09:48,875
they would say things

464
00:09:48,875 --> 00:09:50,166
like Bitcoin is slow

465
00:09:50,166 --> 00:09:51,708
because it can only do

466
00:09:51,708 --> 00:09:53,541
seven transactions per second,

467
00:09:53,541 --> 00:09:55,583
but our blockchain can do this

468
00:09:55,583 --> 00:09:57,000
many thousands of transactions

469
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:57,500
per second.

470
00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:57,875
But of course,

471
00:09:57,875 --> 00:09:58,375
that just leaves

472
00:09:58,375 --> 00:09:58,916
you open to

473
00:09:58,916 --> 00:09:59,875
some other blockchain

474
00:09:59,875 --> 00:10:00,833
coming along and say, well,

475
00:10:00,833 --> 00:10:01,500
we could do 100,000

476
00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:02,541
or 1 million.

477
00:10:02,541 --> 00:10:05,000
It's like that thing,

478
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,958
that the hitchhiker sailing.

479
00:10:06,958 --> 00:10:08,208
There's something about Mary

480
00:10:08,208 --> 00:10:08,833
where you know,

481
00:10:08,833 --> 00:10:09,625
that the eight minute

482
00:10:09,625 --> 00:10:10,333
abs, you know,

483
00:10:10,333 --> 00:10:11,500
and then the guy says, well,

484
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:11,833
what about

485
00:10:11,833 --> 00:10:12,500
if someone comes up

486
00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:13,375
with seven minute abs,

487
00:10:13,375 --> 00:10:14,083
then what are you going to do?

488
00:10:14,083 --> 00:10:15,250
And the guy just did

489
00:10:15,250 --> 00:10:16,541
they try to just glitches out.

490
00:10:16,541 --> 00:10:17,958
He can't, you know,

491
00:10:17,958 --> 00:10:18,416
that blows

492
00:10:18,416 --> 00:10:19,500
a fuze can't deal with it.

493
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:20,166
But that's kind of

494
00:10:20,166 --> 00:10:22,750
like the thing he you

495
00:10:22,750 --> 00:10:23,750
what they don't tell you

496
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:24,541
though, when they say

497
00:10:24,541 --> 00:10:25,708
that thing about Bitcoin

498
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:26,708
is they don't admit

499
00:10:26,708 --> 00:10:28,041
to the trade offs

500
00:10:28,041 --> 00:10:29,083
that their own project

501
00:10:29,083 --> 00:10:31,375
had to make in order to,

502
00:10:31,375 --> 00:10:32,875
to get that extra,

503
00:10:32,875 --> 00:10:34,000
number of transactions

504
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:34,625
per second.

505
00:10:34,625 --> 00:10:36,500
What they ended up trading off

506
00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:38,250
was the most important thing,

507
00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:39,083
the very thing

508
00:10:39,083 --> 00:10:40,375
that made Bitcoin unique

509
00:10:40,375 --> 00:10:41,708
in the first place.

510
00:10:41,708 --> 00:10:42,291
There's nothing

511
00:10:42,291 --> 00:10:43,250
particularly unique

512
00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:43,958
about being able

513
00:10:43,958 --> 00:10:45,000
to do a million, millions

514
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,458
of transactions a second.

515
00:10:46,458 --> 00:10:48,708
The fiat system does

516
00:10:48,708 --> 00:10:49,916
millions of transactions

517
00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:50,583
per second.

518
00:10:50,583 --> 00:10:51,291
Perfectly fine.

519
00:10:51,291 --> 00:10:53,000
We don't need something else

520
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,958
that can do transactions

521
00:10:54,958 --> 00:10:56,833
at that, at that speed.

522
00:10:56,833 --> 00:10:57,833
But what we did need

523
00:10:57,833 --> 00:10:58,375
and this is the

524
00:10:58,375 --> 00:10:59,416
this is the problem

525
00:10:59,416 --> 00:11:01,583
that Bitcoin actually solved,

526
00:11:01,583 --> 00:11:02,375
was to be able

527
00:11:02,375 --> 00:11:04,166
to actually create consensus

528
00:11:04,166 --> 00:11:05,125
in a network

529
00:11:05,125 --> 00:11:07,208
without a trusted third party.

530
00:11:08,583 --> 00:11:10,041
But what these what these

531
00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:10,583
guys of these

532
00:11:10,583 --> 00:11:11,333
projects are doing

533
00:11:11,333 --> 00:11:12,583
because they are necessarily

534
00:11:12,583 --> 00:11:13,500
centralized projects,

535
00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:13,875
they have

536
00:11:13,875 --> 00:11:15,083
they have CEOs,

537
00:11:15,083 --> 00:11:15,416
they have

538
00:11:15,416 --> 00:11:16,416
marketing departments,

539
00:11:16,416 --> 00:11:17,458
they have budgets

540
00:11:17,458 --> 00:11:18,583
and all these sorts of things.

541
00:11:18,583 --> 00:11:19,500
They put that

542
00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:20,583
central third party

543
00:11:20,583 --> 00:11:22,125
right back in there

544
00:11:22,125 --> 00:11:23,958
and and all the whole

545
00:11:23,958 --> 00:11:24,416
time, it's

546
00:11:24,416 --> 00:11:25,625
not as like Bitcoin has.

547
00:11:25,625 --> 00:11:26,750
The Bitcoin community

548
00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:27,250
has been under

549
00:11:27,250 --> 00:11:28,541
any illusions that

550
00:11:28,541 --> 00:11:29,333
that somehow

551
00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:30,000
we're going to build

552
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,250
a whole financial system

553
00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:32,666
with only seven transactions

554
00:11:32,666 --> 00:11:33,458
per second.

555
00:11:33,458 --> 00:11:34,791
But the way in which

556
00:11:34,791 --> 00:11:36,208
and this is the other thing,

557
00:11:36,208 --> 00:11:37,708
the crypto community

558
00:11:37,708 --> 00:11:39,291
doesn't seem to

559
00:11:39,291 --> 00:11:40,625
under like they

560
00:11:40,625 --> 00:11:41,666
they keep or

561
00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:42,416
although whether or not

562
00:11:42,416 --> 00:11:43,333
they get to still keep doing

563
00:11:43,333 --> 00:11:43,916
that due

564
00:11:43,916 --> 00:11:44,666
to what I said before.

565
00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:46,583
But for years

566
00:11:46,583 --> 00:11:47,375
they've always tried

567
00:11:47,375 --> 00:11:48,500
to pretend as though things

568
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:49,541
like the Lightning Network

569
00:11:49,541 --> 00:11:50,333
doesn't exist,

570
00:11:50,333 --> 00:11:52,000
which is the Bitcoin

571
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:52,583
solution

572
00:11:52,583 --> 00:11:53,458
to the scaling problem.

573
00:11:53,458 --> 00:11:55,708
So you keep keeping the bottom

574
00:11:55,708 --> 00:11:56,791
layer of the protocol

575
00:11:56,791 --> 00:11:58,375
sacrosanct, that is,

576
00:11:58,375 --> 00:11:59,166
those features

577
00:11:59,166 --> 00:11:59,833
that you can't

578
00:11:59,833 --> 00:12:00,916
get anywhere else.

579
00:12:00,916 --> 00:12:02,666
The trustless decentralization

580
00:12:02,666 --> 00:12:03,708
that I talked about before,

581
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,625
but then doing the scaling

582
00:12:06,625 --> 00:12:08,000
on a level above that

583
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000
so you can make your

584
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000
compromises there

585
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,375
without compromising the,

586
00:12:11,375 --> 00:12:12,833
the lower level.

587
00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:14,750
And, and so you can kind of it

588
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:16,166
that way,

589
00:12:16,166 --> 00:12:17,625
both because blockchains

590
00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:18,500
have that, that,

591
00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:20,416
that they have that trilemma

592
00:12:20,416 --> 00:12:21,166
where you have to make

593
00:12:21,166 --> 00:12:22,500
a compromise somewhere.

594
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,166
And so

595
00:12:24,166 --> 00:12:25,291
Bitcoin is choosing

596
00:12:25,291 --> 00:12:26,458
to make its compromise

597
00:12:26,458 --> 00:12:27,833
on the Bitcoin blockchain

598
00:12:27,833 --> 00:12:28,708
makes its compromise

599
00:12:28,708 --> 00:12:29,416
on scaling,

600
00:12:29,416 --> 00:12:30,750
but then essentially farms

601
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:32,208
that out to the layer above,

602
00:12:32,208 --> 00:12:32,625
but again

603
00:12:32,625 --> 00:12:33,625
in the crypto community

604
00:12:33,625 --> 00:12:34,250
to bring it back.

605
00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:34,875
They're either

606
00:12:34,875 --> 00:12:36,291
unaware of that or with

607
00:12:36,291 --> 00:12:36,708
they are

608
00:12:36,708 --> 00:12:38,125
where they conveniently

609
00:12:38,125 --> 00:12:38,708
pretend as though

610
00:12:38,708 --> 00:12:39,458
it doesn't exist,

611
00:12:39,458 --> 00:12:40,583
so that they can keep pushing

612
00:12:40,583 --> 00:12:43,500
their narrative as faster.

613
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:44,000
Yeah, like

614
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,083
as a faster blockchain,

615
00:12:45,083 --> 00:12:46,416
because a lot of

616
00:12:46,416 --> 00:12:47,666
the whole reason

617
00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:48,333
for these things

618
00:12:48,333 --> 00:12:49,416
existing is to,

619
00:12:49,416 --> 00:12:50,875
is to address

620
00:12:50,875 --> 00:12:51,541
some kind of

621
00:12:51,541 --> 00:12:53,541
perceived deficiency

622
00:12:53,541 --> 00:12:55,375
in Bitcoin,

623
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:55,875
perceived

624
00:12:55,875 --> 00:12:57,750
or fabricated deficiency

625
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:59,125
in many cases in Bitcoin.

626
00:12:59,125 --> 00:12:59,750
Yeah,

627
00:12:59,750 --> 00:13:00,500
that's interesting

628
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:01,541
because if I'm hearing

629
00:13:01,541 --> 00:13:02,041
what you're saying

630
00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:03,625
correctly, it's almost like

631
00:13:03,625 --> 00:13:04,458
there were Bitcoin

632
00:13:04,458 --> 00:13:05,458
is all along.

633
00:13:05,458 --> 00:13:06,083
Very early

634
00:13:06,083 --> 00:13:07,291
on, if you had the foresight

635
00:13:07,291 --> 00:13:08,583
that none of these projects

636
00:13:08,583 --> 00:13:09,833
were going to work

637
00:13:09,833 --> 00:13:11,125
and there was hindsight, yeah,

638
00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:12,708
I'm more of a hindsight person

639
00:13:12,708 --> 00:13:13,541
and think like, oh,

640
00:13:13,541 --> 00:13:14,250
you know, great.

641
00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:15,500
We tested this with this

642
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:16,541
and now it doesn't work.

643
00:13:16,541 --> 00:13:17,458
And we know

644
00:13:17,458 --> 00:13:18,916
not to go back to that.

645
00:13:18,916 --> 00:13:20,125
But it's interesting

646
00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:21,250
that they have been people

647
00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:22,791
all along who

648
00:13:22,791 --> 00:13:24,208
saw had the foresight

649
00:13:24,208 --> 00:13:26,500
to see Bitcoin for what it is.

650
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:27,000
Yeah.

651
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:27,833
I mean it's amazing

652
00:13:27,833 --> 00:13:28,833
technical experts,

653
00:13:28,833 --> 00:13:29,416
the people that

654
00:13:29,416 --> 00:13:30,083
have been doing

655
00:13:30,083 --> 00:13:30,750
who had been

656
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:31,833
working on this stuff

657
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:32,875
even before Bitcoin

658
00:13:32,875 --> 00:13:34,958
existed, all understood

659
00:13:34,958 --> 00:13:37,291
that Bitcoin was a very,

660
00:13:37,291 --> 00:13:38,083
very carefully

661
00:13:38,083 --> 00:13:39,291
balanced set of,

662
00:13:39,291 --> 00:13:41,250
you know, components

663
00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:42,958
with very with very carefully

664
00:13:42,958 --> 00:13:44,541
devised game theory

665
00:13:44,541 --> 00:13:45,208
that you couldn't

666
00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:46,375
just, you know,

667
00:13:46,375 --> 00:13:47,916
pluck bits out of

668
00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:49,750
and hope would somehow work

669
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:50,541
on their own

670
00:13:50,541 --> 00:13:52,375
or with completely different

671
00:13:52,375 --> 00:13:53,166
sets of

672
00:13:53,166 --> 00:13:54,583
incentives and parameters.

673
00:13:55,666 --> 00:13:56,458
Because that's the key thing

674
00:13:56,458 --> 00:13:57,000
that Bitcoin,

675
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:57,958
at the end of the day, it's

676
00:13:57,958 --> 00:13:58,791
just a

677
00:13:58,791 --> 00:13:59,750
just it's just

678
00:13:59,750 --> 00:14:01,250
a bunch of incentives

679
00:14:01,250 --> 00:14:02,083
that work

680
00:14:02,083 --> 00:14:05,083
really, really well together.

681
00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:06,958
Essentially addressing

682
00:14:06,958 --> 00:14:07,583
the tragedy

683
00:14:07,583 --> 00:14:10,583
of the commons type problems.

684
00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:12,083
So for those listeners

685
00:14:12,083 --> 00:14:13,125
that might not be familiar

686
00:14:13,125 --> 00:14:13,916
with the tragedy

687
00:14:13,916 --> 00:14:15,625
of the commons problems,

688
00:14:15,625 --> 00:14:18,083
they are problems whereby the,

689
00:14:18,083 --> 00:14:19,333
interests of the

690
00:14:19,333 --> 00:14:20,458
individual actor

691
00:14:20,458 --> 00:14:21,500
do not align

692
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:22,833
well with the interests

693
00:14:22,833 --> 00:14:24,041
of the community overall.

694
00:14:24,041 --> 00:14:26,333
And it comes from the idea of,

695
00:14:26,333 --> 00:14:28,916
of a, a shared common

696
00:14:28,916 --> 00:14:30,833
grazing area

697
00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:32,791
and all of the participants

698
00:14:32,791 --> 00:14:34,583
that were grazing cattle

699
00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:35,458
or sheep or whatever

700
00:14:35,458 --> 00:14:36,750
it was on that area

701
00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:37,416
would agree

702
00:14:37,416 --> 00:14:38,083
that they would put

703
00:14:38,083 --> 00:14:40,750
no more than ten animals,

704
00:14:40,750 --> 00:14:42,291
on into the space,

705
00:14:42,291 --> 00:14:43,708
because if people

706
00:14:43,708 --> 00:14:44,458
were just able

707
00:14:44,458 --> 00:14:45,416
to put as many animals

708
00:14:45,416 --> 00:14:46,500
as they wanted into the space,

709
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:47,666
it would overgrazed the area

710
00:14:47,666 --> 00:14:48,458
and destroy the land

711
00:14:48,458 --> 00:14:49,791
for everybody.

712
00:14:49,791 --> 00:14:51,500
So by all agreeing

713
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:52,375
to only maybe

714
00:14:52,375 --> 00:14:53,750
put a maximum of, say,

715
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:54,625
5 or 10 or whatever

716
00:14:54,625 --> 00:14:56,541
it is on there, then then

717
00:14:57,666 --> 00:14:58,416
the that

718
00:14:58,416 --> 00:15:00,000
the land wouldn't get ruined.

719
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,916
However,

720
00:15:01,916 --> 00:15:03,416
as a selfish individual,

721
00:15:03,416 --> 00:15:04,500
you could say, you know,

722
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:04,875
particularly

723
00:15:04,875 --> 00:15:05,583
if there were like,

724
00:15:05,583 --> 00:15:06,250
you know,

725
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:07,500
dozens of other farmers,

726
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:08,166
you could sort of

727
00:15:08,166 --> 00:15:09,000
push that number up

728
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,333
if you just put 20 on there

729
00:15:10,333 --> 00:15:10,916
and everyone else

730
00:15:10,916 --> 00:15:12,291
is following the rules,

731
00:15:12,291 --> 00:15:12,750
presuming

732
00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:13,583
everyone else is following

733
00:15:13,583 --> 00:15:14,625
the rules,

734
00:15:14,625 --> 00:15:15,125
the land will

735
00:15:15,125 --> 00:15:15,958
probably be okay.

736
00:15:15,958 --> 00:15:17,250
But you'll get to,

737
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:18,291
you'll get to graze twice

738
00:15:18,291 --> 00:15:18,958
as many cattle.

739
00:15:18,958 --> 00:15:19,833
So it's in your interest

740
00:15:19,833 --> 00:15:21,083
to try to get as many

741
00:15:21,083 --> 00:15:22,916
cattle on there as possible.

742
00:15:22,916 --> 00:15:23,916
But that doesn't align

743
00:15:23,916 --> 00:15:25,000
with the interests of the

744
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,458
of the group overall.

745
00:15:26,458 --> 00:15:27,166
So with Bitcoin

746
00:15:27,166 --> 00:15:28,083
on the other hand, again,

747
00:15:28,083 --> 00:15:29,333
all the incentives are

748
00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:30,916
is is like everything is

749
00:15:30,916 --> 00:15:31,541
is looked at as

750
00:15:31,541 --> 00:15:32,750
how do we align everything?

751
00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:33,500
How do we make it

752
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:34,166
so that everything

753
00:15:34,166 --> 00:15:34,791
that happens in the

754
00:15:34,791 --> 00:15:35,916
way the network works,

755
00:15:37,375 --> 00:15:38,791
only has to trust

756
00:15:38,791 --> 00:15:39,291
that all of

757
00:15:39,291 --> 00:15:40,333
the participants

758
00:15:40,333 --> 00:15:41,500
in that network

759
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:43,750
are going to behave

760
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:44,458
in their most

761
00:15:44,458 --> 00:15:46,583
rational self-interest.

762
00:15:46,583 --> 00:15:47,500
Yeah.

763
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:48,208
You know,

764
00:15:48,208 --> 00:15:48,958
I'm still I'm

765
00:15:48,958 --> 00:15:49,916
still happily baffled.

766
00:15:49,916 --> 00:15:50,833
The more I learn about

767
00:15:50,833 --> 00:15:51,833
Bitcoin's design,

768
00:15:51,833 --> 00:15:54,125
the more I just can't believe

769
00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:55,208
that a single person

770
00:15:55,208 --> 00:15:56,166
or a group of people,

771
00:15:56,166 --> 00:15:57,958
whoever it was,

772
00:15:57,958 --> 00:16:00,958
designed something so pristine

773
00:16:01,791 --> 00:16:04,708
and yeah, like, it just works.

774
00:16:04,708 --> 00:16:06,583
It doesn't.

775
00:16:06,583 --> 00:16:07,250
And that's the thing.

776
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:07,375
Well,

777
00:16:07,375 --> 00:16:07,791
you mentioned

778
00:16:07,791 --> 00:16:09,833
the hindsight thing before.

779
00:16:09,833 --> 00:16:11,125
It's so many people have tried

780
00:16:11,125 --> 00:16:11,458
to, like,

781
00:16:11,458 --> 00:16:12,291
change a little bit

782
00:16:12,291 --> 00:16:13,375
and then realize later

783
00:16:13,375 --> 00:16:14,375
on, oh, that's

784
00:16:14,375 --> 00:16:15,833
why Satoshi did it that way.

785
00:16:15,833 --> 00:16:16,500
I see now

786
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:17,083
because they

787
00:16:17,083 --> 00:16:17,750
actually had to do it

788
00:16:17,750 --> 00:16:19,041
and watch it fail.

789
00:16:19,041 --> 00:16:20,375
Whereas Satoshi,

790
00:16:20,375 --> 00:16:22,250
whoever he or they were,

791
00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:24,500
was very, very prescient.

792
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:25,500
In being able

793
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,916
to sort of almost game

794
00:16:26,916 --> 00:16:28,375
out how all of these things,

795
00:16:29,791 --> 00:16:32,000
would go.

796
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:32,750
It's also important

797
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:34,708
to remember that

798
00:16:34,708 --> 00:16:36,166
as elegant as as it

799
00:16:36,166 --> 00:16:37,708
is, it's not like

800
00:16:37,708 --> 00:16:38,291
it's not like

801
00:16:38,291 --> 00:16:39,166
it wasn't invented

802
00:16:39,166 --> 00:16:43,041
sort of whole cloth in 2008

803
00:16:43,041 --> 00:16:44,958
or and 2009

804
00:16:44,958 --> 00:16:45,166
being

805
00:16:45,166 --> 00:16:45,625
when the first

806
00:16:45,625 --> 00:16:46,708
block was mined,

807
00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:47,500
it wasn't invented

808
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:47,916
whole cloth.

809
00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:49,375
There's a whole history

810
00:16:49,375 --> 00:16:51,500
of technology

811
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:53,250
going right back to the,

812
00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:53,791
you can go back

813
00:16:53,791 --> 00:16:54,500
as far as you want,

814
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:55,583
but in terms of computing

815
00:16:55,583 --> 00:16:56,083
at least, it's

816
00:16:56,083 --> 00:16:57,208
sort of the 60s,

817
00:16:57,208 --> 00:16:59,125
the 70s, the 80s and 90s,

818
00:16:59,125 --> 00:16:59,750
different things,

819
00:16:59,750 --> 00:17:00,625
like different kinds of,

820
00:17:00,625 --> 00:17:00,833
you know,

821
00:17:00,833 --> 00:17:02,666
encryption protocols,

822
00:17:02,666 --> 00:17:03,416
proof of work

823
00:17:03,416 --> 00:17:05,375
was something that, that,

824
00:17:05,375 --> 00:17:06,458
that existed beforehand.

825
00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:06,833
I first

826
00:17:06,833 --> 00:17:07,916
remember hearing about that

827
00:17:07,916 --> 00:17:09,208
as a form of,

828
00:17:09,208 --> 00:17:10,666
spam mitigation,

829
00:17:10,666 --> 00:17:12,166
whereby every piece of email

830
00:17:12,166 --> 00:17:13,750
you got, it wouldn't be like

831
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:15,208
it wouldn't be accepted,

832
00:17:15,208 --> 00:17:16,791
except if it could show

833
00:17:16,791 --> 00:17:17,916
it cryptographically

834
00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:18,625
that a certain amount

835
00:17:18,625 --> 00:17:19,958
of computational power

836
00:17:19,958 --> 00:17:21,000
had been expended.

837
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:21,750
And that would mean that

838
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:22,458
if you just wanted to send

839
00:17:22,458 --> 00:17:23,708
a few emails,

840
00:17:23,708 --> 00:17:24,833
the amount of computation

841
00:17:24,833 --> 00:17:25,500
would be trivial.

842
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:26,166
But if you're sending

843
00:17:26,166 --> 00:17:26,916
bulk email,

844
00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:28,375
then that would really add up

845
00:17:28,375 --> 00:17:29,666
to some significant

846
00:17:29,666 --> 00:17:31,125
amount of computational power.

847
00:17:31,125 --> 00:17:32,708
That would have to be,

848
00:17:32,708 --> 00:17:34,166
did you have to prove you did?

849
00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:34,625
And that would

850
00:17:34,625 --> 00:17:36,000
then throttle back

851
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,250
any spammers ability

852
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:38,166
to send out

853
00:17:38,166 --> 00:17:40,375
billions of email messages?

854
00:17:40,375 --> 00:17:41,166
That was in the air.

855
00:17:41,166 --> 00:17:41,875
That was around

856
00:17:41,875 --> 00:17:44,875
like 2000, 2001 blockchain

857
00:17:45,458 --> 00:17:46,000
that came.

858
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,208
And this

859
00:17:47,208 --> 00:17:47,833
this is the thing

860
00:17:47,833 --> 00:17:48,500
about blockchain.

861
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:49,625
That was the big buzzword

862
00:17:49,625 --> 00:17:51,583
in 2002 thousand

863
00:17:51,583 --> 00:17:54,750
and, 17 blockchain.

864
00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:56,541
It was around in

865
00:17:56,541 --> 00:17:58,666
I think, 1991,

866
00:17:58,666 --> 00:17:58,916
you know,

867
00:17:58,916 --> 00:18:00,125
it was a paper by Harper

868
00:18:00,125 --> 00:18:00,625
and Stone

869
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:01,750
era proposed

870
00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:02,416
how you could get

871
00:18:02,416 --> 00:18:03,166
a chunk of data

872
00:18:03,166 --> 00:18:05,166
and then basically do a thing

873
00:18:05,166 --> 00:18:05,750
called a hash,

874
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:06,333
which takes like

875
00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:07,500
a unique number from that

876
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:09,125
that you can't reverse.

877
00:18:09,125 --> 00:18:09,416
You can't

878
00:18:09,416 --> 00:18:10,708
reversibly calculate,

879
00:18:10,708 --> 00:18:11,916
add that to the next block.

880
00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:12,958
The idea being

881
00:18:12,958 --> 00:18:14,791
is that if you tried to change

882
00:18:14,791 --> 00:18:16,791
any data in that system,

883
00:18:16,791 --> 00:18:17,666
you'd have to change

884
00:18:17,666 --> 00:18:18,458
like everything

885
00:18:18,458 --> 00:18:20,125
that came later

886
00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:22,500
and that is

887
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:23,833
very, very difficult to do.

888
00:18:23,833 --> 00:18:24,500
If you combine

889
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:25,375
that with proof of work,

890
00:18:25,375 --> 00:18:26,208
because then you have to

891
00:18:26,208 --> 00:18:26,875
not only

892
00:18:26,875 --> 00:18:27,416
you have to do

893
00:18:27,416 --> 00:18:28,166
all the proof of work.

894
00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:29,625
Calculations for every block

895
00:18:29,625 --> 00:18:30,333
where it doesn't

896
00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:32,208
work is on its own,

897
00:18:32,208 --> 00:18:33,166
because you could

898
00:18:33,166 --> 00:18:34,083
trivially change

899
00:18:34,083 --> 00:18:34,708
all of the data

900
00:18:34,708 --> 00:18:35,666
that's stacked on top.

901
00:18:35,666 --> 00:18:36,458
If you don't have to do

902
00:18:36,458 --> 00:18:36,958
any proof of

903
00:18:36,958 --> 00:18:38,250
work calculations.

904
00:18:39,583 --> 00:18:40,458
In the process, a

905
00:18:40,458 --> 00:18:42,083
computer could very easily.

906
00:18:42,083 --> 00:18:42,500
If you want to

907
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:43,208
change something

908
00:18:43,208 --> 00:18:44,166
that in the data base

909
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:44,416
that was

910
00:18:44,416 --> 00:18:46,208
put there years ago with

911
00:18:46,208 --> 00:18:47,625
thousands of blocks on top,

912
00:18:47,625 --> 00:18:48,083
you could very

913
00:18:48,083 --> 00:18:49,000
easily recompute

914
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:49,625
all of the blocks

915
00:18:49,625 --> 00:18:50,541
that sit on top.

916
00:18:50,541 --> 00:18:51,125
But if you've got

917
00:18:51,125 --> 00:18:52,583
proof of work there

918
00:18:52,583 --> 00:18:54,291
that require ten minutes

919
00:18:54,291 --> 00:18:55,208
of calculations

920
00:18:55,208 --> 00:18:56,875
of the most of the combined

921
00:18:56,875 --> 00:18:59,625
computing power of, of,

922
00:18:59,625 --> 00:19:00,625
thousands of miners

923
00:19:00,625 --> 00:19:01,375
all over the world,

924
00:19:01,375 --> 00:19:02,333
then that you cannot

925
00:19:02,333 --> 00:19:03,333
you can't even roll one

926
00:19:03,333 --> 00:19:04,708
block back little line,

927
00:19:04,708 --> 00:19:06,083
let alone dozens or hundreds

928
00:19:06,083 --> 00:19:06,708
that you might need

929
00:19:06,708 --> 00:19:07,875
if you wanted to

930
00:19:07,875 --> 00:19:08,541
change something

931
00:19:08,541 --> 00:19:10,250
that occurred,

932
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:11,958
earlier on in the history.

933
00:19:11,958 --> 00:19:12,583
Yeah.

934
00:19:12,583 --> 00:19:14,541
But this is the that.

935
00:19:14,541 --> 00:19:15,666
So I love that.

936
00:19:15,666 --> 00:19:17,125
I love that you said that, JP

937
00:19:17,125 --> 00:19:18,500
because as you were speaking,

938
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:19,291
I was smiling

939
00:19:19,291 --> 00:19:20,291
because I remembered

940
00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:22,916
I recently saw on Instagram,

941
00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:25,458
Mark Boris did a podcast with,

942
00:19:25,458 --> 00:19:27,208
with the CEO of

943
00:19:27,208 --> 00:19:29,333
crypto exchange in Australia.

944
00:19:29,333 --> 00:19:30,500
And I noticed

945
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:31,625
in the notes that he said

946
00:19:31,625 --> 00:19:32,750
it was a paid partnership.

947
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:34,833
I found that very interesting.

948
00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:36,083
But I just

949
00:19:36,083 --> 00:19:37,000
watched this short

950
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,250
little sound bite and

951
00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:39,500
from what I could see,

952
00:19:40,541 --> 00:19:41,708
the message was very much

953
00:19:41,708 --> 00:19:42,666
that blockchain

954
00:19:42,666 --> 00:19:44,250
is a technology that allows

955
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:45,500
for decentralization

956
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:46,375
of finance.

957
00:19:46,375 --> 00:19:48,041
And I'm like,

958
00:19:48,041 --> 00:19:49,500
No no no no no no.

959
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:50,500
Yeah.

960
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:53,458
No, no, this is the problem.

961
00:19:53,458 --> 00:19:54,625
Yep.

962
00:19:54,625 --> 00:19:55,166
Yep.

963
00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:56,416
And, I naturally

964
00:19:56,416 --> 00:19:57,166
I couldn't help myself.

965
00:19:57,166 --> 00:19:58,583
So I commented just to clear

966
00:19:58,583 --> 00:20:01,583
up, the confusion for any,

967
00:20:01,750 --> 00:20:03,250
people who stumble upon it

968
00:20:03,250 --> 00:20:04,583
and may want to know

969
00:20:04,583 --> 00:20:05,750
that there is a little bit

970
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:08,750
more that requires,

971
00:20:08,916 --> 00:20:09,291
for us

972
00:20:09,291 --> 00:20:11,000
to achieve decentralization.

973
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:11,875
Just have to ask

974
00:20:11,875 --> 00:20:12,750
as well as if it

975
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:14,916
if it's blockchain again,

976
00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:15,291
you know,

977
00:20:15,291 --> 00:20:16,625
without without Bitcoin's

978
00:20:16,625 --> 00:20:17,375
proof of work

979
00:20:17,375 --> 00:20:18,000
and without a whole lot

980
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,083
of this other stuff,

981
00:20:19,083 --> 00:20:20,750
if it was so revolutionary,

982
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:21,625
why didn't anyone do

983
00:20:21,625 --> 00:20:22,166
anything with it?

984
00:20:22,166 --> 00:20:25,166
Between 1991 and the,

985
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,500
the development of Bitcoin in,

986
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:29,791
2008?

987
00:20:29,791 --> 00:20:31,166
Yeah, it does it

988
00:20:31,166 --> 00:20:32,000
it just becomes

989
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,166
in an idiosyncratic

990
00:20:33,166 --> 00:20:33,958
data structure.

991
00:20:33,958 --> 00:20:34,833
That's it.

992
00:20:34,833 --> 00:20:35,750
You know, an append

993
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:37,458
only database.

994
00:20:37,458 --> 00:20:39,541
Not that useful.

995
00:20:39,541 --> 00:20:40,916
And what did they talk about?

996
00:20:40,916 --> 00:20:41,875
Oh, but it allows us to

997
00:20:41,875 --> 00:20:42,458
you can have this,

998
00:20:42,458 --> 00:20:42,708
you know,

999
00:20:42,708 --> 00:20:43,375
we can have this system

1000
00:20:43,375 --> 00:20:45,083
where the data is all

1001
00:20:45,083 --> 00:20:46,250
decentralized, right?

1002
00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:47,250
You already have that.

1003
00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:48,625
I mean, when you log on to

1004
00:20:48,625 --> 00:20:49,750
your social media

1005
00:20:50,833 --> 00:20:52,625
that is stored simultaneously

1006
00:20:52,625 --> 00:20:54,000
on servers all over the world,

1007
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,833
you could a nuke

1008
00:20:54,833 --> 00:20:56,041
could take out a country

1009
00:20:56,041 --> 00:20:56,750
holding part

1010
00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:57,541
of that infrastructure,

1011
00:20:57,541 --> 00:20:58,625
and you'll still be able

1012
00:20:58,625 --> 00:20:59,000
to log in.

1013
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,291
It'll file over to another

1014
00:21:00,291 --> 00:21:01,958
copy of the of the data

1015
00:21:01,958 --> 00:21:02,625
and the and the

1016
00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:03,541
and the

1017
00:21:03,541 --> 00:21:03,875
system

1018
00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:04,500
will reroute

1019
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:07,208
around the problem.

1020
00:21:07,208 --> 00:21:08,083
So there's nothing new

1021
00:21:08,083 --> 00:21:09,041
about a decentralized

1022
00:21:09,041 --> 00:21:10,375
database, but

1023
00:21:10,375 --> 00:21:11,041
but it is

1024
00:21:11,041 --> 00:21:12,500
ultimately blockchain.

1025
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:13,708
And this is kind of

1026
00:21:13,708 --> 00:21:15,500
gets back to the presentation

1027
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,208
I did at the university.

1028
00:21:17,208 --> 00:21:18,750
It was one of the early

1029
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:20,541
marketing buzzwords,

1030
00:21:20,541 --> 00:21:22,416
essentially really became it's

1031
00:21:22,416 --> 00:21:22,958
really more

1032
00:21:22,958 --> 00:21:24,291
of a marketing term than it is

1033
00:21:24,291 --> 00:21:26,833
any it's still around.

1034
00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:27,333
Well, yeah.

1035
00:21:27,333 --> 00:21:27,958
But and

1036
00:21:27,958 --> 00:21:29,666
and it's kind of metastasized

1037
00:21:29,666 --> 00:21:30,333
into other things.

1038
00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:31,125
Like there was sort of

1039
00:21:31,125 --> 00:21:33,000
this like, well then it was

1040
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:34,291
it was

1041
00:21:34,291 --> 00:21:35,250
blockchain and then it

1042
00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:36,500
then it was sort of rebranded

1043
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:39,500
last thing last, cycle to DeFi

1044
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:40,291
and then

1045
00:21:40,291 --> 00:21:40,708
and now

1046
00:21:40,708 --> 00:21:42,750
they're calling it Web3.

1047
00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:43,375
That's

1048
00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:44,375
because that's ultimately

1049
00:21:44,375 --> 00:21:45,875
what the topic of the thing

1050
00:21:45,875 --> 00:21:47,416
that I went and spoke

1051
00:21:47,416 --> 00:21:48,666
at last week was, was

1052
00:21:48,666 --> 00:21:49,583
it was essentially a web

1053
00:21:49,583 --> 00:21:51,958
three day and,

1054
00:21:51,958 --> 00:21:53,250
and so I sort of rather

1055
00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:54,083
cheekily titled

1056
00:21:54,083 --> 00:21:55,791
my presentation,

1057
00:21:55,791 --> 00:21:57,291
Why Bitcoin

1058
00:21:57,291 --> 00:21:58,666
is the only blockchain with a

1059
00:21:58,666 --> 00:21:59,458
with a cross out

1060
00:21:59,458 --> 00:22:00,833
through it, crypto

1061
00:22:00,833 --> 00:22:03,125
with a cross out through it,

1062
00:22:03,125 --> 00:22:04,333
a bunch of other

1063
00:22:04,333 --> 00:22:06,083
and then I think it was,

1064
00:22:06,083 --> 00:22:06,791
DeFi with

1065
00:22:06,791 --> 00:22:07,625
a cross app through it

1066
00:22:07,625 --> 00:22:10,333
and then Web3 that matters,

1067
00:22:10,333 --> 00:22:10,708
you know,

1068
00:22:10,708 --> 00:22:11,250
in other words,

1069
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:12,583
to show how you know,

1070
00:22:12,583 --> 00:22:13,291
this is just

1071
00:22:13,291 --> 00:22:14,541
the latest iteration

1072
00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:15,291
of a whole series

1073
00:22:15,291 --> 00:22:16,208
of marketing terms

1074
00:22:16,208 --> 00:22:17,541
that have come and gone

1075
00:22:17,541 --> 00:22:19,333
as each of the narratives

1076
00:22:19,333 --> 00:22:20,166
that were associated

1077
00:22:20,166 --> 00:22:21,291
with that market,

1078
00:22:21,291 --> 00:22:22,625
with that marketing term,

1079
00:22:22,625 --> 00:22:24,083
have failed in the market.

1080
00:22:25,291 --> 00:22:26,375
Although, of course, it has a

1081
00:22:26,375 --> 00:22:27,416
it didn't fail in the market

1082
00:22:27,416 --> 00:22:28,291
for everybody.

1083
00:22:28,291 --> 00:22:29,208
It just failed it

1084
00:22:29,208 --> 00:22:30,583
it just failed in the market

1085
00:22:30,583 --> 00:22:31,666
for everyone

1086
00:22:31,666 --> 00:22:33,500
that that system failed

1087
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:35,250
the client care about.

1088
00:22:35,250 --> 00:22:35,666
It worked

1089
00:22:35,666 --> 00:22:38,291
very well for a few insiders

1090
00:22:38,291 --> 00:22:42,041
that created tokens and, and,

1091
00:22:43,125 --> 00:22:45,750
you know, spun up like things

1092
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:47,000
like venture capital pump

1093
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
like what is it

1094
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,125
with these serial

1095
00:22:49,125 --> 00:22:50,041
entrepreneur types

1096
00:22:50,041 --> 00:22:51,000
that all they ever do is

1097
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,416
like continually

1098
00:22:52,416 --> 00:22:53,458
spin up ideas,

1099
00:22:53,458 --> 00:22:54,166
but they can't wait

1100
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,708
to flog them off.

1101
00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:56,458
And it's almost

1102
00:22:56,458 --> 00:22:57,500
like they build these things

1103
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:58,375
for that purpose.

1104
00:22:58,375 --> 00:23:00,208
It's not really built with any

1105
00:23:00,208 --> 00:23:01,125
with any kind of long

1106
00:23:01,125 --> 00:23:02,750
term vision. And they know it.

1107
00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:04,125
They building this thing to be

1108
00:23:04,125 --> 00:23:04,500
something

1109
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:07,208
that they can flog off,

1110
00:23:07,208 --> 00:23:09,625
to either to raise

1111
00:23:09,625 --> 00:23:10,750
the venture capitalists

1112
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:12,541
can flog off to,

1113
00:23:12,541 --> 00:23:14,791
to mug punters, to retail,

1114
00:23:14,791 --> 00:23:16,250
and this time, really

1115
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:18,458
retail isn't really showing up

1116
00:23:18,458 --> 00:23:19,250
at the moment, like,

1117
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:20,666
because the the narratives

1118
00:23:20,666 --> 00:23:21,375
have gotten kind of

1119
00:23:21,375 --> 00:23:22,458
sillier in cilia.

1120
00:23:23,875 --> 00:23:24,833
In the beginning, there was

1121
00:23:24,833 --> 00:23:26,750
a degree of sort of,

1122
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:27,833
you know, if you didn't

1123
00:23:27,833 --> 00:23:28,708
scratch too deeply,

1124
00:23:28,708 --> 00:23:30,708
there was a degree of,

1125
00:23:30,708 --> 00:23:31,583
a plausibility

1126
00:23:31,583 --> 00:23:32,333
to the narratives.

1127
00:23:32,333 --> 00:23:32,875
But what's the

1128
00:23:32,875 --> 00:23:33,833
latest thing now?

1129
00:23:33,833 --> 00:23:34,583
It's just like it's

1130
00:23:34,583 --> 00:23:35,875
just like meme coins.

1131
00:23:35,875 --> 00:23:36,708
It's all left.

1132
00:23:36,708 --> 00:23:38,333
You know,

1133
00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:39,333
they they just literally

1134
00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:40,125
call the main coin.

1135
00:23:40,125 --> 00:23:40,375
I mean,

1136
00:23:40,375 --> 00:23:41,583
at least that's more honest.

1137
00:23:41,583 --> 00:23:42,500
At least you can just say,

1138
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:43,291
yeah, look,

1139
00:23:43,291 --> 00:23:44,541
we've we've given up.

1140
00:23:44,541 --> 00:23:45,333
They've given up

1141
00:23:45,333 --> 00:23:46,333
on any pretense

1142
00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:47,875
of these things being useful.

1143
00:23:47,875 --> 00:23:49,666
You are just buying a meme.

1144
00:23:49,666 --> 00:23:50,250
That's it.

1145
00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:52,333
And and now we see how

1146
00:23:52,333 --> 00:23:52,791
there's like

1147
00:23:52,791 --> 00:23:54,208
the same curve of that.

1148
00:23:54,208 --> 00:23:55,083
I think they get pumped

1149
00:23:55,083 --> 00:23:56,208
by the insiders.

1150
00:23:56,208 --> 00:23:58,916
They start selling boom dump.

1151
00:23:58,916 --> 00:23:59,666
Yeah.

1152
00:23:59,666 --> 00:24:00,666
Rinse and repeat.

1153
00:24:00,666 --> 00:24:03,291
There's no,

1154
00:24:03,291 --> 00:24:04,000
there was never

1155
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,041
any kind of long term

1156
00:24:05,041 --> 00:24:06,208
deal with any of this stuff.

1157
00:24:06,208 --> 00:24:06,708
And but

1158
00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:08,041
and that's what bitcoin

1159
00:24:08,041 --> 00:24:09,125
have been very good at doing.

1160
00:24:09,125 --> 00:24:10,000
Bitcoin is a here

1161
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:10,875
for the long term.

1162
00:24:11,875 --> 00:24:12,958
And yeah this

1163
00:24:12,958 --> 00:24:13,791
is reflected

1164
00:24:13,791 --> 00:24:14,625
as well

1165
00:24:14,625 --> 00:24:17,583
in our made up numbers.

1166
00:24:17,583 --> 00:24:18,958
It used to be that

1167
00:24:18,958 --> 00:24:20,541
during bear markets

1168
00:24:20,541 --> 00:24:21,750
when it was all just sort of

1169
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:22,833
when there was no bitcoin

1170
00:24:22,833 --> 00:24:24,916
crypto distinction is that,

1171
00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:25,583
everyone would

1172
00:24:25,583 --> 00:24:26,416
would show up

1173
00:24:26,416 --> 00:24:27,416
in massive numbers,

1174
00:24:27,416 --> 00:24:27,958
like he could get

1175
00:24:27,958 --> 00:24:28,708
hundreds of people

1176
00:24:28,708 --> 00:24:29,583
at these made ups

1177
00:24:29,583 --> 00:24:31,458
during that bull markets.

1178
00:24:31,458 --> 00:24:32,541
And then as soon as

1179
00:24:32,541 --> 00:24:33,416
three months later

1180
00:24:33,416 --> 00:24:34,166
when the bear market

1181
00:24:34,166 --> 00:24:35,250
was around,

1182
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:35,750
literally

1183
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:36,958
we'd be like five people,

1184
00:24:36,958 --> 00:24:38,291
if that like it was,

1185
00:24:38,291 --> 00:24:40,291
it would just drop to nothing.

1186
00:24:40,291 --> 00:24:41,500
With the Bitcoin community.

1187
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,333
Now, our events are equally

1188
00:24:44,333 --> 00:24:45,333
well attended

1189
00:24:45,333 --> 00:24:46,666
regardless now of what

1190
00:24:46,666 --> 00:24:47,875
part of the cycle

1191
00:24:47,875 --> 00:24:49,166
that we're in.

1192
00:24:49,166 --> 00:24:51,625
Yeah, consistency is key.

1193
00:24:51,625 --> 00:24:54,041
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1194
00:24:54,041 --> 00:24:55,250
I wanted to ask you

1195
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:56,250
if you can simply

1196
00:24:56,250 --> 00:24:57,833
explain, like,

1197
00:24:57,833 --> 00:24:58,291
I think there's

1198
00:24:58,291 --> 00:24:58,875
a lot of people

1199
00:24:58,875 --> 00:25:00,041
in Northern Rivers area

1200
00:25:00,041 --> 00:25:00,708
that are sort of

1201
00:25:00,708 --> 00:25:02,333
dabbling in crypto space.

1202
00:25:02,333 --> 00:25:03,333
And I do get this

1203
00:25:03,333 --> 00:25:04,416
question a lot.

1204
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:06,500
You know, Bitcoin

1205
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:07,500
versus crypto.

1206
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:08,958
How would you explain it

1207
00:25:08,958 --> 00:25:12,541
to complete beginner as to why

1208
00:25:13,083 --> 00:25:14,208
they should not be

1209
00:25:14,208 --> 00:25:15,750
investing in crypto?

1210
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:16,416
One of the

1211
00:25:16,416 --> 00:25:17,750
interesting distinctions

1212
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:18,208
I think

1213
00:25:18,208 --> 00:25:18,625
very well,

1214
00:25:18,625 --> 00:25:18,916
I think it's

1215
00:25:18,916 --> 00:25:19,833
a very clear distinction

1216
00:25:19,833 --> 00:25:21,208
you can join is to draw

1217
00:25:21,208 --> 00:25:22,875
other is to us

1218
00:25:22,875 --> 00:25:23,833
before even

1219
00:25:23,833 --> 00:25:25,375
to ask of all of these things,

1220
00:25:25,375 --> 00:25:26,708
including Bitcoin,

1221
00:25:26,708 --> 00:25:29,333
what problem does it solve

1222
00:25:29,333 --> 00:25:30,750
now Bitcoin

1223
00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:31,166
right

1224
00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:32,083
from the very first part.

1225
00:25:32,083 --> 00:25:32,666
In fact,

1226
00:25:32,666 --> 00:25:34,041
the problem that it solves

1227
00:25:34,041 --> 00:25:35,000
is embedded

1228
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,500
in the very first Bitcoin

1229
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:37,083
block itself.

1230
00:25:37,083 --> 00:25:38,125
Satoshi put it in there.

1231
00:25:38,125 --> 00:25:38,750
He says.

1232
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:39,958
You stay in that line

1233
00:25:39,958 --> 00:25:41,708
that says,

1234
00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:44,000
governor on the brink of

1235
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,500
second bailout for banks.

1236
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:46,791
Okay,

1237
00:25:46,791 --> 00:25:47,833
so what's the problem there?

1238
00:25:47,833 --> 00:25:49,625
Is that money printing, right?

1239
00:25:49,625 --> 00:25:50,958
This idea that insiders

1240
00:25:50,958 --> 00:25:52,166
can keep breaching

1241
00:25:52,166 --> 00:25:52,708
the trust

1242
00:25:52,708 --> 00:25:53,666
of the monetary system

1243
00:25:53,666 --> 00:25:54,750
by printing money

1244
00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:56,375
to bail out their friends

1245
00:25:56,375 --> 00:25:57,791
at the expense of everybody

1246
00:25:57,791 --> 00:25:59,125
who holds that money,

1247
00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,500
who gets diluted.

1248
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:01,375
All these other guys

1249
00:26:01,375 --> 00:26:02,458
take the risks.

1250
00:26:02,458 --> 00:26:03,750
I'm just. I earned my money.

1251
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:04,500
I hold my money,

1252
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:05,583
and I'm just getting diluted

1253
00:26:05,583 --> 00:26:07,916
by these people that that,

1254
00:26:07,916 --> 00:26:08,333
that took

1255
00:26:08,333 --> 00:26:09,625
risks and don't

1256
00:26:09,625 --> 00:26:10,541
seem to have to suffer

1257
00:26:10,541 --> 00:26:11,500
the consequences

1258
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,125
when that risk goes wrong

1259
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:13,916
because their mates

1260
00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:15,250
at the money printer

1261
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:16,208
are going

1262
00:26:16,208 --> 00:26:16,958
to print more of them

1263
00:26:16,958 --> 00:26:18,416
and bail them out.

1264
00:26:18,416 --> 00:26:19,125
So that's embedded

1265
00:26:19,125 --> 00:26:20,291
in the blockchain

1266
00:26:20,291 --> 00:26:21,791
as well as that.

1267
00:26:21,791 --> 00:26:22,708
He also writes in

1268
00:26:22,708 --> 00:26:23,791
some very early posts,

1269
00:26:23,791 --> 00:26:25,333
he explicitly says the problem

1270
00:26:25,333 --> 00:26:27,416
with traditional fiat currency

1271
00:26:27,416 --> 00:26:29,291
is the,

1272
00:26:29,291 --> 00:26:30,958
the amount of trust

1273
00:26:30,958 --> 00:26:31,833
that it requires

1274
00:26:31,833 --> 00:26:33,250
in central third parties.

1275
00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:36,583
And I'm paraphrasing, and the

1276
00:26:36,625 --> 00:26:37,833
and how history is

1277
00:26:37,833 --> 00:26:39,125
full of repeated

1278
00:26:39,125 --> 00:26:41,583
breaches of that trust.

1279
00:26:41,583 --> 00:26:44,083
It's pretty close.

1280
00:26:44,083 --> 00:26:44,833
Yeah, that's

1281
00:26:44,833 --> 00:26:45,666
pretty actually close

1282
00:26:45,666 --> 00:26:47,541
to the original quote.

1283
00:26:47,541 --> 00:26:48,833
So you did really well

1284
00:26:48,833 --> 00:26:50,583
remembering that. Yeah. So,

1285
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:52,791
so you couldn't define

1286
00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:53,875
the problem more clearly.

1287
00:26:53,875 --> 00:26:55,625
Start out with the problem

1288
00:26:55,625 --> 00:26:57,708
now, here's the solution.

1289
00:26:57,708 --> 00:26:58,166
And by the way,

1290
00:26:58,166 --> 00:26:59,458
it wasn't the first attempt

1291
00:26:59,458 --> 00:27:00,958
at such a solution.

1292
00:27:00,958 --> 00:27:01,833
There were

1293
00:27:01,833 --> 00:27:03,250
precursors to Bitcoin

1294
00:27:03,250 --> 00:27:04,916
which probably involved

1295
00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:06,125
to date involved

1296
00:27:06,125 --> 00:27:07,375
many of the same

1297
00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:08,666
technological components.

1298
00:27:08,666 --> 00:27:09,500
Just that Bitcoin

1299
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:10,250
was the first one

1300
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:11,708
to kind of get it all,

1301
00:27:11,708 --> 00:27:12,666
to get everything

1302
00:27:12,666 --> 00:27:13,583
decentralized, like

1303
00:27:13,583 --> 00:27:14,750
there was things before

1304
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:16,000
that had attack

1305
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,750
that is still like certain

1306
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:18,958
central attack vectors

1307
00:27:18,958 --> 00:27:20,458
that that the

1308
00:27:20,458 --> 00:27:21,791
that the legacy system

1309
00:27:21,791 --> 00:27:22,791
could, could go for

1310
00:27:22,791 --> 00:27:24,833
and take down.

1311
00:27:24,833 --> 00:27:25,791
And it's kind of

1312
00:27:25,791 --> 00:27:26,458
like what happened

1313
00:27:26,458 --> 00:27:27,625
with, with file

1314
00:27:27,625 --> 00:27:28,166
sharing in the

1315
00:27:28,166 --> 00:27:30,958
very early days.

1316
00:27:30,958 --> 00:27:32,125
Some of your older listeners

1317
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:33,208
would remember,

1318
00:27:33,208 --> 00:27:34,916
things like Napster,

1319
00:27:34,916 --> 00:27:36,000
and that was pretty much

1320
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,000
completely stole

1321
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,583
it had a big

1322
00:27:37,583 --> 00:27:38,750
centralized server.

1323
00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:39,833
You'd be old enough

1324
00:27:39,833 --> 00:27:41,666
to remember the other name.

1325
00:27:41,666 --> 00:27:42,583
But there was a central

1326
00:27:42,583 --> 00:27:44,791
kind of mediating server.

1327
00:27:44,791 --> 00:27:45,333
And that,

1328
00:27:45,333 --> 00:27:45,666
of course,

1329
00:27:45,666 --> 00:27:47,458
as soon as that was shut down,

1330
00:27:47,458 --> 00:27:48,458
and then there were ones

1331
00:27:48,458 --> 00:27:49,583
that sort of took

1332
00:27:49,583 --> 00:27:50,833
more of the central points

1333
00:27:50,833 --> 00:27:51,250
out of it.

1334
00:27:51,250 --> 00:27:52,208
Eventually it got to what

1335
00:27:52,208 --> 00:27:52,916
we have.

1336
00:27:52,916 --> 00:27:53,541
It didn't take long.

1337
00:27:53,541 --> 00:27:54,041
It all happened

1338
00:27:54,041 --> 00:27:55,166
within a few years.

1339
00:27:55,166 --> 00:27:55,708
BitTorrent.

1340
00:27:56,833 --> 00:27:59,000
And so the only things that

1341
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,208
now can get taken down,

1342
00:28:00,208 --> 00:28:01,166
I like the websites

1343
00:28:01,166 --> 00:28:02,125
that hold the actual

1344
00:28:02,125 --> 00:28:03,750
like torrent link,

1345
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:04,625
but you could just have

1346
00:28:04,625 --> 00:28:05,500
those people

1347
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,500
could just hold those

1348
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:07,083
like you could have

1349
00:28:07,083 --> 00:28:08,291
those links everywhere.

1350
00:28:08,291 --> 00:28:09,083
You could keep putting

1351
00:28:09,083 --> 00:28:09,750
those links around

1352
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:10,833
as long as you could send

1353
00:28:10,833 --> 00:28:11,916
those links around.

1354
00:28:11,916 --> 00:28:12,541
The data

1355
00:28:12,541 --> 00:28:13,375
now just moves

1356
00:28:13,375 --> 00:28:14,500
between all of the peers

1357
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:15,791
in the network in the total,

1358
00:28:15,791 --> 00:28:17,375
totally decentralized swarm.

1359
00:28:17,375 --> 00:28:17,875
And that's why

1360
00:28:17,875 --> 00:28:18,500
we still have

1361
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:19,916
BitTorrent to this day.

1362
00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:21,500
That protocol is essentially

1363
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,083
the underpinnings of of,

1364
00:28:24,083 --> 00:28:25,250
still have all online

1365
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:25,833
file sharing

1366
00:28:25,833 --> 00:28:26,666
and that this is

1367
00:28:26,666 --> 00:28:28,041
we're going back,

1368
00:28:28,041 --> 00:28:30,625
what, 20, 25 years now.

1369
00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:31,833
And so Bitcoin is kind of like

1370
00:28:31,833 --> 00:28:33,750
the equivalent of BitTorrent.

1371
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:34,916
Except now for money.

1372
00:28:34,916 --> 00:28:36,541
It's like it just it

1373
00:28:36,541 --> 00:28:38,000
it took out by that.

1374
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,708
It was the thing

1375
00:28:38,708 --> 00:28:39,583
that no longer

1376
00:28:39,583 --> 00:28:40,375
had anything in it

1377
00:28:40,375 --> 00:28:42,125
left that, that that could be,

1378
00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:43,916
that could be attacked

1379
00:28:43,916 --> 00:28:44,875
and and

1380
00:28:44,875 --> 00:28:46,583
and prevented from working.

1381
00:28:48,583 --> 00:28:49,833
And, I forget what

1382
00:28:49,833 --> 00:28:50,250
the beginning

1383
00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:50,958
of the question was.

1384
00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:51,625
Where did I get off?

1385
00:28:51,625 --> 00:28:52,500
What was the side of that?

1386
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:52,750
Yeah.

1387
00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:54,083
If we're talking about,

1388
00:28:54,083 --> 00:28:56,041
crypto versus bitcoin, right.

1389
00:28:56,041 --> 00:28:56,833
It's about the hope

1390
00:28:56,833 --> 00:28:57,458
that it's solved.

1391
00:28:57,458 --> 00:28:58,791
So it's solved that problem.

1392
00:28:58,791 --> 00:28:59,625
And once it was solved,

1393
00:28:59,625 --> 00:29:00,000
it was solved.

1394
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,375
Now, the thing with crypto

1395
00:29:01,375 --> 00:29:02,875
is that they have

1396
00:29:02,875 --> 00:29:03,750
they're always it's

1397
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:04,166
like they've got

1398
00:29:04,166 --> 00:29:04,666
this solution.

1399
00:29:04,666 --> 00:29:05,041
They've got this

1400
00:29:05,041 --> 00:29:06,041
blockchain tech.

1401
00:29:06,041 --> 00:29:06,791
They thought

1402
00:29:06,791 --> 00:29:07,958
it was what it is.

1403
00:29:07,958 --> 00:29:08,750
And they're always trying

1404
00:29:08,750 --> 00:29:10,208
to find, oh,

1405
00:29:10,208 --> 00:29:10,958
what's a problem

1406
00:29:10,958 --> 00:29:12,833
that this could solve.

1407
00:29:12,833 --> 00:29:14,000
And and they have

1408
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,000
even hackathons

1409
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,916
that attempt to sort of

1410
00:29:15,916 --> 00:29:16,916
come up with problems

1411
00:29:16,916 --> 00:29:17,875
that you could solve with it.

1412
00:29:17,875 --> 00:29:18,958
And it's the complete

1413
00:29:18,958 --> 00:29:20,083
wrong way

1414
00:29:20,083 --> 00:29:22,500
you should do things. It's

1415
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:23,458
and of course, that's why

1416
00:29:23,458 --> 00:29:24,291
all of these things failed,

1417
00:29:24,291 --> 00:29:24,791
because these

1418
00:29:24,791 --> 00:29:25,708
were never problems.

1419
00:29:25,708 --> 00:29:26,333
And so when you're

1420
00:29:26,333 --> 00:29:27,625
looking at these things,

1421
00:29:27,625 --> 00:29:28,541
you have to ask yourself,

1422
00:29:28,541 --> 00:29:29,458
what problem is it

1423
00:29:29,458 --> 00:29:30,583
actually solving?

1424
00:29:30,583 --> 00:29:31,791
So when someone comes up

1425
00:29:31,791 --> 00:29:32,041
and says,

1426
00:29:32,041 --> 00:29:33,250
oh, look, you know, I could

1427
00:29:33,250 --> 00:29:33,750
we could have

1428
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:35,041
a, a virtual pat

1429
00:29:35,041 --> 00:29:35,791
on the internet

1430
00:29:35,791 --> 00:29:37,375
and I can sell this

1431
00:29:37,375 --> 00:29:38,750
cat and I can do this,

1432
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:39,916
I could feed this

1433
00:29:39,916 --> 00:29:40,875
cat and I could do all this.

1434
00:29:40,875 --> 00:29:41,916
Okay, well, that's

1435
00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:43,916
nice, but like,

1436
00:29:43,916 --> 00:29:44,541
what probably is

1437
00:29:44,541 --> 00:29:45,916
it's always yeah.

1438
00:29:45,916 --> 00:29:47,458
And then this may work.

1439
00:29:47,458 --> 00:29:47,916
And then there's

1440
00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:49,541
things like the,

1441
00:29:49,541 --> 00:29:50,250
that these things

1442
00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:51,083
have been put forward

1443
00:29:51,083 --> 00:29:52,208
as digital collectibles.

1444
00:29:52,208 --> 00:29:52,500
Well,

1445
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:53,708
they could solve the puzzle.

1446
00:29:53,708 --> 00:29:55,000
I don't know, that collectible

1447
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,500
were a problem

1448
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:56,666
that needed solving.

1449
00:29:56,666 --> 00:29:58,000
But one thing

1450
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:58,833
about collectibles

1451
00:29:58,833 --> 00:29:59,458
I can tell is

1452
00:29:59,458 --> 00:30:00,500
if you look at my background

1453
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,583
here, I do a

1454
00:30:01,583 --> 00:30:03,000
little bit about collecting

1455
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,458
is that if you have

1456
00:30:04,458 --> 00:30:06,000
if you try to create something

1457
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,916
for the purposes of

1458
00:30:06,916 --> 00:30:07,916
being a collectible,

1459
00:30:08,958 --> 00:30:09,500
it's there.

1460
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:11,000
It's never collectible.

1461
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,208
Think of your grandmother's

1462
00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:14,000
Franklin Mint brick gum

1463
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,125
plates or, you know,

1464
00:30:16,125 --> 00:30:17,583
royal Royal,

1465
00:30:17,583 --> 00:30:19,166
you know, royal crockery,

1466
00:30:19,166 --> 00:30:20,083
all that sort of stuff

1467
00:30:20,083 --> 00:30:21,083
that was explicitly

1468
00:30:21,083 --> 00:30:22,958
created to be collectible.

1469
00:30:22,958 --> 00:30:24,833
It never is, but it is.

1470
00:30:24,833 --> 00:30:27,000
It's,

1471
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,291
this,

1472
00:30:28,291 --> 00:30:29,291
what is collectible

1473
00:30:29,291 --> 00:30:30,625
as things that were sort of

1474
00:30:30,625 --> 00:30:31,833
in sort of

1475
00:30:31,833 --> 00:30:33,208
relatively normal use

1476
00:30:33,208 --> 00:30:34,375
but then become scarce

1477
00:30:34,375 --> 00:30:34,833
and people

1478
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:36,916
then want to study the history

1479
00:30:36,916 --> 00:30:38,625
of whatever that thing is and,

1480
00:30:38,625 --> 00:30:39,750
and, collect

1481
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:41,666
and collect examples of it.

1482
00:30:41,666 --> 00:30:42,958
But Franklin Mint stuff,

1483
00:30:42,958 --> 00:30:43,708
that's the good

1484
00:30:43,708 --> 00:30:44,416
example of that.

1485
00:30:44,416 --> 00:30:45,750
Those things are just

1486
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:46,541
there's no limit.

1487
00:30:46,541 --> 00:30:48,541
There's no,

1488
00:30:48,541 --> 00:30:49,250
what's the word?

1489
00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:52,083
It's,

1490
00:30:52,083 --> 00:30:53,333
I forget the expression now,

1491
00:30:53,333 --> 00:30:54,291
but it's,

1492
00:30:54,291 --> 00:30:57,000
the idea that, you can't fake

1493
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,916
the amount of effort that made

1494
00:30:58,916 --> 00:31:00,291
that went into creating it.

1495
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:03,083
Start saving in Bitcoin with

1496
00:31:03,083 --> 00:31:03,833
BitTorrent,

1497
00:31:03,833 --> 00:31:05,500
Australia's biggest bitcoin

1498
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:06,958
on the exchange.

1499
00:31:06,958 --> 00:31:08,625
Beta offers easy tools

1500
00:31:08,625 --> 00:31:10,250
and advanced features.

1501
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:12,125
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1502
00:31:12,125 --> 00:31:13,500
making their first Bitcoin

1503
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:14,666
purchase today.

1504
00:31:14,666 --> 00:31:16,583
Download the app or visit

1505
00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:17,500
beta Dot.

1506
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:20,500
Today you.

1507
00:31:20,541 --> 00:31:21,291
When you mentioned

1508
00:31:21,291 --> 00:31:21,958
collectibles,

1509
00:31:21,958 --> 00:31:22,916
I was just thinking

1510
00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:24,375
I feel like the bullish case

1511
00:31:24,375 --> 00:31:25,000
for Bitcoin

1512
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,416
has become a klepto

1513
00:31:26,416 --> 00:31:27,500
because when I went to buy

1514
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:28,041
the book, it's

1515
00:31:28,041 --> 00:31:29,958
like $600 or something.

1516
00:31:29,958 --> 00:31:30,250
I was like,

1517
00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:32,541
you can buy it with cheap.

1518
00:31:32,541 --> 00:31:33,666
Oh, really? Okay.

1519
00:31:33,666 --> 00:31:34,583
Yeah. Like, I mean.

1520
00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:34,916
It's just

1521
00:31:34,916 --> 00:31:35,166
it's like

1522
00:31:35,166 --> 00:31:36,000
gold was never

1523
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,250
to be collectible,

1524
00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:39,083
but it's not. That's right.

1525
00:31:39,083 --> 00:31:39,958
It wasn't created. Is that.

1526
00:31:39,958 --> 00:31:40,916
But now that Bitcoin

1527
00:31:40,916 --> 00:31:42,416
has become popular

1528
00:31:42,416 --> 00:31:44,041
and and that's from a time

1529
00:31:44,041 --> 00:31:44,875
when Bitcoin wasn't

1530
00:31:44,875 --> 00:31:45,416
that well known,

1531
00:31:45,416 --> 00:31:45,916
I didn't print

1532
00:31:45,916 --> 00:31:46,583
that many copies.

1533
00:31:46,583 --> 00:31:47,458
People that are interested

1534
00:31:47,458 --> 00:31:48,625
in bitcoin

1535
00:31:48,625 --> 00:31:50,208
want to want to create

1536
00:31:50,208 --> 00:31:51,083
to create.

1537
00:31:51,083 --> 00:31:51,750
So to complete

1538
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:52,625
their Bitcoin library

1539
00:31:52,625 --> 00:31:53,583
with that book, perfect

1540
00:31:53,583 --> 00:31:54,375
example of stuff

1541
00:31:54,375 --> 00:31:55,750
that becomes collectible

1542
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:57,333
because it was never intended

1543
00:31:57,333 --> 00:31:58,375
if it was intended to be

1544
00:31:58,375 --> 00:31:59,541
collectible from the start.

1545
00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:01,708
Yeah.

1546
00:32:01,708 --> 00:32:03,500
It wouldn't have it.

1547
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:04,041
It wouldn't

1548
00:32:04,041 --> 00:32:04,916
have been addressing

1549
00:32:04,916 --> 00:32:05,708
any real problem.

1550
00:32:05,708 --> 00:32:06,750
That's the one thing.

1551
00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:09,416
And, and I would add, there

1552
00:32:09,416 --> 00:32:09,958
probably wouldn't

1553
00:32:09,958 --> 00:32:11,166
be any reason why you couldn't

1554
00:32:11,166 --> 00:32:11,916
just create

1555
00:32:11,916 --> 00:32:12,666
unlimited numbers

1556
00:32:12,666 --> 00:32:13,500
of the thing.

1557
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:14,041
Yeah.

1558
00:32:14,041 --> 00:32:15,458
Which is also kind of

1559
00:32:15,458 --> 00:32:16,416
like the same reason

1560
00:32:16,416 --> 00:32:17,583
why they will never be

1561
00:32:17,583 --> 00:32:19,583
another Bitcoin.

1562
00:32:19,583 --> 00:32:21,416
You can't replicate the events

1563
00:32:21,416 --> 00:32:23,166
that took place

1564
00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:25,208
to make it what it is today.

1565
00:32:25,208 --> 00:32:26,250
Exactly. Yeah.

1566
00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:27,541
It's it's described

1567
00:32:27,541 --> 00:32:28,375
in it's described

1568
00:32:28,375 --> 00:32:28,958
as Bitcoin's

1569
00:32:28,958 --> 00:32:31,458
immaculate conception in that,

1570
00:32:31,458 --> 00:32:32,000
it's it

1571
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:32,916
the whole purpose of

1572
00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:35,333
was of Bitcoin was,

1573
00:32:35,333 --> 00:32:37,625
resistance to replicability.

1574
00:32:37,625 --> 00:32:39,208
And so

1575
00:32:39,208 --> 00:32:40,791
if you can't therefore

1576
00:32:40,791 --> 00:32:41,583
if you replicate

1577
00:32:41,583 --> 00:32:42,875
the whole thing,

1578
00:32:42,875 --> 00:32:43,958
then you no longer

1579
00:32:43,958 --> 00:32:45,375
have digital scarcity either.

1580
00:32:45,375 --> 00:32:46,375
You're going to have a world

1581
00:32:46,375 --> 00:32:47,083
in which the idea

1582
00:32:47,083 --> 00:32:49,250
of digital scarcity exists

1583
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:50,458
or you don't.

1584
00:32:50,458 --> 00:32:52,500
Now, if you do have that world

1585
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,166
and that's the world

1586
00:32:53,166 --> 00:32:55,041
that we're betting on,

1587
00:32:55,041 --> 00:32:56,791
then there can only be one,

1588
00:32:58,666 --> 00:33:00,250
because if there are more,

1589
00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:00,833
you don't have

1590
00:33:00,833 --> 00:33:01,666
digital scarcity

1591
00:33:01,666 --> 00:33:02,791
anymore, in which case, well,

1592
00:33:02,791 --> 00:33:03,416
then you might as well

1593
00:33:03,416 --> 00:33:04,208
not be involved

1594
00:33:04,208 --> 00:33:05,333
in any of them.

1595
00:33:05,333 --> 00:33:07,041
So it becomes essentially

1596
00:33:07,041 --> 00:33:09,625
a bitcoin or nothing argument.

1597
00:33:09,625 --> 00:33:10,125
Yeah.

1598
00:33:10,125 --> 00:33:11,000
And so when people

1599
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,208
are looking at the differences

1600
00:33:12,208 --> 00:33:13,916
here,

1601
00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:14,666
it's necessary

1602
00:33:14,666 --> 00:33:15,833
to understand what problem

1603
00:33:15,833 --> 00:33:18,375
solving, how it solves it

1604
00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:18,916
and the

1605
00:33:18,916 --> 00:33:19,666
and the game theory

1606
00:33:19,666 --> 00:33:20,208
involved with that

1607
00:33:20,208 --> 00:33:22,791
which isn't present in crypto.

1608
00:33:22,791 --> 00:33:23,541
It's also

1609
00:33:23,541 --> 00:33:24,708
you have to look at Bitcoin's

1610
00:33:24,708 --> 00:33:26,000
immaculate conception,

1611
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,833
which again, no, cryptos

1612
00:33:27,833 --> 00:33:28,791
do not have that.

1613
00:33:28,791 --> 00:33:30,041
They're they're created

1614
00:33:30,041 --> 00:33:31,208
by central parties

1615
00:33:31,208 --> 00:33:32,666
that issue unlimited

1616
00:33:32,666 --> 00:33:34,791
number of numbers of tokens.

1617
00:33:34,791 --> 00:33:36,458
And usually people,

1618
00:33:36,458 --> 00:33:37,083
they just sell

1619
00:33:37,083 --> 00:33:39,041
those to the public.

1620
00:33:39,041 --> 00:33:40,208
So there's no unaffordable

1621
00:33:40,208 --> 00:33:41,750
cost limits there.

1622
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:43,500
They're highly centralized.

1623
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:44,791
They could make claims

1624
00:33:44,791 --> 00:33:45,916
of immutability

1625
00:33:45,916 --> 00:33:47,208
like as

1626
00:33:47,208 --> 00:33:48,416
Ethereum claims

1627
00:33:48,416 --> 00:33:49,125
that its

1628
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:51,166
monetary policy is now

1629
00:33:51,166 --> 00:33:52,375
makes it more scarce

1630
00:33:52,375 --> 00:33:53,000
than Bitcoin.

1631
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:53,458
You might have heard

1632
00:33:53,458 --> 00:33:53,958
this claim.

1633
00:33:53,958 --> 00:33:54,333
You know,

1634
00:33:54,333 --> 00:33:55,416
you know, with our

1635
00:33:55,416 --> 00:33:56,208
monetary policy.

1636
00:33:56,208 --> 00:33:58,083
Now what's our issuance?

1637
00:33:58,083 --> 00:33:59,541
Right. A

1638
00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:01,166
is it

1639
00:34:01,166 --> 00:34:02,708
a better stop to flow

1640
00:34:02,708 --> 00:34:05,041
ratio than what Bitcoin is?

1641
00:34:05,041 --> 00:34:06,500
But that's meaningless

1642
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:08,583
if your monetary policy itself

1643
00:34:08,583 --> 00:34:09,500
is not immutable

1644
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:10,125
and it's gone

1645
00:34:10,125 --> 00:34:11,750
through more changes

1646
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:14,291
of monetary policy than its

1647
00:34:14,291 --> 00:34:15,166
than its founders

1648
00:34:15,166 --> 00:34:15,958
have probably

1649
00:34:15,958 --> 00:34:17,166
had changes of underwear.

1650
00:34:17,166 --> 00:34:18,958
I mean, it's, it's it's,

1651
00:34:18,958 --> 00:34:20,000
and so it's not it's

1652
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,750
not a meaningful claim

1653
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:23,125
when, when it can,

1654
00:34:23,125 --> 00:34:24,208
when it can be changed

1655
00:34:24,208 --> 00:34:25,583
as easily as big

1656
00:34:25,583 --> 00:34:27,083
as Ethereum, for example.

1657
00:34:27,083 --> 00:34:27,666
I don't want to pick on

1658
00:34:27,666 --> 00:34:28,041
a theorem.

1659
00:34:28,041 --> 00:34:28,375
It's true

1660
00:34:28,375 --> 00:34:30,666
of all of them have had their

1661
00:34:30,666 --> 00:34:31,125
they have had

1662
00:34:31,125 --> 00:34:32,333
their monetary policy change

1663
00:34:32,333 --> 00:34:33,791
throughout the histories.

1664
00:34:33,791 --> 00:34:35,916
You know plus pre mine.

1665
00:34:35,916 --> 00:34:36,625
That well that's right.

1666
00:34:36,625 --> 00:34:38,125
The pre mine too. Yeah.

1667
00:34:38,125 --> 00:34:40,166
Which 70% pre-modern.

1668
00:34:40,166 --> 00:34:40,708
Yeah.

1669
00:34:40,708 --> 00:34:42,083
And they only ever like

1670
00:34:42,083 --> 00:34:42,541
the Ethereum

1671
00:34:42,541 --> 00:34:43,375
Foundation for example

1672
00:34:43,375 --> 00:34:44,500
has only ever sold

1673
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:45,500
theorem support.

1674
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:46,791
It's only ever sold it

1675
00:34:46,791 --> 00:34:48,291
to the public.

1676
00:34:48,291 --> 00:34:49,541
That's the totally opposite

1677
00:34:49,541 --> 00:34:49,916
message.

1678
00:34:49,916 --> 00:34:50,875
You get from the Bitcoin

1679
00:34:50,875 --> 00:34:51,958
community. It says that

1680
00:34:53,208 --> 00:34:53,833
the mission that

1681
00:34:53,833 --> 00:34:54,458
you want to be on at

1682
00:34:54,458 --> 00:34:54,958
the moment

1683
00:34:54,958 --> 00:34:56,416
is understanding

1684
00:34:56,416 --> 00:34:58,833
that this thing is finite

1685
00:34:58,833 --> 00:35:00,833
and it's meaningfully finite.

1686
00:35:00,833 --> 00:35:01,833
It's not just finite

1687
00:35:01,833 --> 00:35:02,541
because someone said

1688
00:35:02,541 --> 00:35:04,333
it is meaningfully finite.

1689
00:35:04,333 --> 00:35:05,458
It there's

1690
00:35:05,458 --> 00:35:06,875
there is actually no way

1691
00:35:06,875 --> 00:35:08,000
that anyone can change

1692
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,125
the numbers of Bitcoin

1693
00:35:09,125 --> 00:35:10,541
that we can divide it into.

1694
00:35:10,541 --> 00:35:11,583
Just before anyone says

1695
00:35:11,583 --> 00:35:12,958
about satoshis and all that,

1696
00:35:12,958 --> 00:35:14,000
you could divide it up

1697
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,916
into thinner slices.

1698
00:35:15,916 --> 00:35:17,750
But you can't increase

1699
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:20,750
the overall, money supply.

1700
00:35:22,125 --> 00:35:24,875
And, and so this is a very,

1701
00:35:24,875 --> 00:35:26,166
very important distinction.

1702
00:35:26,166 --> 00:35:28,041
And,

1703
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:28,875
and a lot of what

1704
00:35:28,875 --> 00:35:29,791
when I again,

1705
00:35:29,791 --> 00:35:31,000
going back to the sort of talk

1706
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,833
I gave at the university,

1707
00:35:32,833 --> 00:35:33,750
a lot of that talk

1708
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:35,125
was explaining how

1709
00:35:35,125 --> 00:35:36,208
all of these great things

1710
00:35:36,208 --> 00:35:36,875
that I'm telling you

1711
00:35:36,875 --> 00:35:38,458
about Bitcoin,

1712
00:35:38,458 --> 00:35:39,625
the crypto, the

1713
00:35:39,625 --> 00:35:40,708
of which a group is named

1714
00:35:40,708 --> 00:35:41,791
after all these other things,

1715
00:35:41,791 --> 00:35:43,458
they don't necessarily

1716
00:35:43,458 --> 00:35:44,666
share any

1717
00:35:44,666 --> 00:35:45,458
or certainly not

1718
00:35:45,458 --> 00:35:47,083
all of those attributes.

1719
00:35:47,083 --> 00:35:47,750
And it's important

1720
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:48,166
that that has

1721
00:35:48,166 --> 00:35:49,041
all of those attributes.

1722
00:35:49,041 --> 00:35:49,833
It might have some of them.

1723
00:35:49,833 --> 00:35:50,958
But in order for it

1724
00:35:50,958 --> 00:35:51,500
to do

1725
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:52,333
to solve the problem

1726
00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:53,166
that Bitcoin solves,

1727
00:35:53,166 --> 00:35:54,708
that needs to have all of them

1728
00:35:54,708 --> 00:35:56,375
and indeed to solve

1729
00:35:56,375 --> 00:35:56,708
to be

1730
00:35:56,708 --> 00:35:57,375
a meaningfully

1731
00:35:57,375 --> 00:35:58,250
decentralized thing

1732
00:35:58,250 --> 00:35:59,208
that is okay,

1733
00:35:59,208 --> 00:36:00,083
to do something better

1734
00:36:00,083 --> 00:36:01,000
than other technology

1735
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:01,833
would do,

1736
00:36:01,833 --> 00:36:02,666
it needs to have all

1737
00:36:02,666 --> 00:36:04,041
of those attributes.

1738
00:36:04,041 --> 00:36:05,208
I don't

1739
00:36:05,208 --> 00:36:06,458
I'm not against the idea

1740
00:36:06,458 --> 00:36:06,833
of, yes,

1741
00:36:06,833 --> 00:36:07,375
you could use

1742
00:36:07,375 --> 00:36:09,416
blockchain to do,

1743
00:36:09,416 --> 00:36:09,666
you know,

1744
00:36:09,666 --> 00:36:11,458
people could store land

1745
00:36:11,458 --> 00:36:12,625
titles and things on there.

1746
00:36:12,625 --> 00:36:13,541
Okay.

1747
00:36:13,541 --> 00:36:14,500
But the moment

1748
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:15,541
you start doing that,

1749
00:36:16,541 --> 00:36:17,541
you have to bring

1750
00:36:17,541 --> 00:36:19,125
in again, third parties

1751
00:36:19,125 --> 00:36:20,583
say with Bitcoin

1752
00:36:20,583 --> 00:36:22,833
everything that Bitcoin is

1753
00:36:22,833 --> 00:36:23,458
it's just

1754
00:36:23,458 --> 00:36:24,541
is on the blockchain.

1755
00:36:24,541 --> 00:36:25,125
It's purely

1756
00:36:25,125 --> 00:36:26,541
within the digital realm.

1757
00:36:26,541 --> 00:36:27,708
If you have your own

1758
00:36:27,708 --> 00:36:28,875
private keys,

1759
00:36:28,875 --> 00:36:29,458
then only

1760
00:36:29,458 --> 00:36:30,000
you are

1761
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,041
the you're the only one

1762
00:36:31,041 --> 00:36:31,875
putting information

1763
00:36:31,875 --> 00:36:32,458
on the blockchain

1764
00:36:32,458 --> 00:36:32,875
in the moment.

1765
00:36:32,875 --> 00:36:33,750
You do that, that's it.

1766
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:34,833
That's the end of it.

1767
00:36:34,833 --> 00:36:36,083
You make your transaction,

1768
00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:37,000
that's it.

1769
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,000
But if you want to do things

1770
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,458
like storing land titles

1771
00:36:39,458 --> 00:36:39,916
or something

1772
00:36:39,916 --> 00:36:40,541
on the blockchain,

1773
00:36:40,541 --> 00:36:41,291
yeah, you can store

1774
00:36:41,291 --> 00:36:42,416
information there.

1775
00:36:42,416 --> 00:36:43,041
But in order to

1776
00:36:43,041 --> 00:36:43,791
make that action

1777
00:36:43,791 --> 00:36:44,291
meaningful,

1778
00:36:44,291 --> 00:36:45,125
it has to link back

1779
00:36:45,125 --> 00:36:45,875
with the real world

1780
00:36:45,875 --> 00:36:47,041
some some way.

1781
00:36:47,041 --> 00:36:47,708
You need someone

1782
00:36:47,708 --> 00:36:50,291
to enforce that contract.

1783
00:36:50,291 --> 00:36:51,875
So why not just trust

1784
00:36:51,875 --> 00:36:52,333
that guy to

1785
00:36:52,333 --> 00:36:53,458
run the whole blockchain?

1786
00:36:54,666 --> 00:36:56,625
You haven't because it's like,

1787
00:36:56,625 --> 00:36:58,375
well, what all you

1788
00:36:58,375 --> 00:36:59,125
you can say, well,

1789
00:36:59,125 --> 00:37:00,041
I own this property

1790
00:37:00,041 --> 00:37:00,625
because I have

1791
00:37:00,625 --> 00:37:02,125
this ledger entry

1792
00:37:02,125 --> 00:37:04,875
on this blockchain.

1793
00:37:04,875 --> 00:37:05,250
Yeah,

1794
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:06,208
but that's like saying

1795
00:37:06,208 --> 00:37:07,208
you own the territory

1796
00:37:07,208 --> 00:37:10,125
because you want in the map.

1797
00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:12,458
Like having owning that

1798
00:37:12,458 --> 00:37:14,000
transaction on that blockchain

1799
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:14,750
says that you

1800
00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:15,958
just own the land.

1801
00:37:15,958 --> 00:37:16,375
It gives you all

1802
00:37:16,375 --> 00:37:17,833
the shape of the map.

1803
00:37:17,833 --> 00:37:18,958
It does to me, enforced

1804
00:37:18,958 --> 00:37:20,166
in the real world,

1805
00:37:20,166 --> 00:37:20,708
the ownership

1806
00:37:20,708 --> 00:37:22,375
of the actual territory.

1807
00:37:22,375 --> 00:37:23,541
The difference with Bitcoin

1808
00:37:23,541 --> 00:37:24,625
is that those things are one

1809
00:37:24,625 --> 00:37:25,416
and the same.

1810
00:37:25,416 --> 00:37:26,666
The map and territory

1811
00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:27,500
are the same.

1812
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:28,791
There's no separate territory,

1813
00:37:28,791 --> 00:37:29,583
it's just the map

1814
00:37:29,583 --> 00:37:30,291
is the thing.

1815
00:37:30,291 --> 00:37:31,166
I pass you the map.

1816
00:37:31,166 --> 00:37:32,250
Now you have that,

1817
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:32,875
you have that.

1818
00:37:32,875 --> 00:37:33,958
You have that economic

1819
00:37:33,958 --> 00:37:34,791
potential energy,

1820
00:37:36,208 --> 00:37:36,833
to, to

1821
00:37:36,833 --> 00:37:38,958
to spend wherever you wish.

1822
00:37:38,958 --> 00:37:40,250
There's no other entities

1823
00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:41,458
needed to enforce anything

1824
00:37:41,458 --> 00:37:42,000
that's going on.

1825
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,000
It's all happening

1826
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,708
within the digital realm.

1827
00:37:44,708 --> 00:37:47,166
But that's again the big,

1828
00:37:47,166 --> 00:37:48,708
the stake with the game theory

1829
00:37:48,708 --> 00:37:49,458
and the incentives

1830
00:37:49,458 --> 00:37:50,458
that the blockchain crowd

1831
00:37:50,458 --> 00:37:52,125
still doesn't understand.

1832
00:37:52,125 --> 00:37:53,125
They, they

1833
00:37:53,125 --> 00:37:54,000
by linking it in

1834
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,000
with the real world,

1835
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,625
if they're doing things

1836
00:37:56,625 --> 00:37:58,916
that, that

1837
00:37:58,916 --> 00:37:59,416
where, that,

1838
00:37:59,416 --> 00:37:59,875
where that,

1839
00:37:59,875 --> 00:38:00,833
where the incentives

1840
00:38:00,833 --> 00:38:02,625
do not align.

1841
00:38:02,625 --> 00:38:03,041
Like it

1842
00:38:03,041 --> 00:38:03,916
very importantly

1843
00:38:03,916 --> 00:38:05,666
lines in bitcoin.

1844
00:38:05,666 --> 00:38:06,416
Yeah.

1845
00:38:06,416 --> 00:38:07,333
I do want to ask you

1846
00:38:07,333 --> 00:38:08,750
a more about game theory

1847
00:38:08,750 --> 00:38:09,708
because I'm very interested.

1848
00:38:09,708 --> 00:38:10,625
I've never gone down that

1849
00:38:10,625 --> 00:38:11,291
rabbit hole.

1850
00:38:11,291 --> 00:38:12,666
But before I do

1851
00:38:12,666 --> 00:38:14,125
I just want to sort of

1852
00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:15,958
go back to the crypto versus

1853
00:38:15,958 --> 00:38:16,916
bitcoin debate,

1854
00:38:16,916 --> 00:38:17,958
because I think

1855
00:38:17,958 --> 00:38:18,958
most normal people

1856
00:38:18,958 --> 00:38:20,916
who are crypto curious

1857
00:38:20,916 --> 00:38:22,166
and have an interest

1858
00:38:22,166 --> 00:38:23,458
in, in this,

1859
00:38:23,458 --> 00:38:24,625
like as an investment

1860
00:38:24,625 --> 00:38:26,333
class, they,

1861
00:38:26,333 --> 00:38:27,916
looking at making money

1862
00:38:27,916 --> 00:38:28,541
like they're not

1863
00:38:28,541 --> 00:38:29,458
thinking about what

1864
00:38:29,458 --> 00:38:30,500
the value proposition,

1865
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:31,250
what the purpose

1866
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:32,250
of Bitcoin is.

1867
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:34,541
They're more thinking

1868
00:38:34,541 --> 00:38:35,750
how how do I make money?

1869
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:36,958
And I think a lot of

1870
00:38:36,958 --> 00:38:37,625
them as well

1871
00:38:37,625 --> 00:38:38,833
think like, okay, Bitcoin's

1872
00:38:38,833 --> 00:38:40,916
the most established one.

1873
00:38:40,916 --> 00:38:41,583
But I'm not going

1874
00:38:41,583 --> 00:38:42,458
to get the gains

1875
00:38:42,458 --> 00:38:43,916
in Bitcoin anymore

1876
00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:45,000
that I might get

1877
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,041
in some

1878
00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:48,833
other speculative token.

1879
00:38:48,833 --> 00:38:49,750
So I think there's

1880
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:51,750
an element of, I guess, greed

1881
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:53,416
where they are hoping

1882
00:38:53,416 --> 00:38:55,000
they're going to get like

1883
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,333
17 x gains

1884
00:38:56,333 --> 00:38:57,458
from, from something else

1885
00:38:57,458 --> 00:38:58,416
because they,

1886
00:38:58,416 --> 00:38:59,125
they know that

1887
00:38:59,125 --> 00:38:59,875
they can't get that

1888
00:38:59,875 --> 00:39:01,125
in Bitcoin anymore.

1889
00:39:01,125 --> 00:39:01,791
Oh they believe.

1890
00:39:01,791 --> 00:39:03,375
I mean well I mean not not

1891
00:39:03,375 --> 00:39:04,250
I mean that's the thing.

1892
00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:04,458
I mean

1893
00:39:04,458 --> 00:39:05,541
but remember that

1894
00:39:05,541 --> 00:39:06,083
when you risk

1895
00:39:06,083 --> 00:39:08,625
adjust these things though

1896
00:39:08,625 --> 00:39:10,250
it all in fact

1897
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:11,333
it dips in Bitcoin's

1898
00:39:11,333 --> 00:39:12,125
favor in my view

1899
00:39:12,125 --> 00:39:12,666
when you risk

1900
00:39:12,666 --> 00:39:13,458
adjusted because,

1901
00:39:14,875 --> 00:39:15,750
the thing with these

1902
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:16,416
other tokens is.

1903
00:39:16,416 --> 00:39:17,250
Yeah, you can.

1904
00:39:17,250 --> 00:39:17,791
Yeah.

1905
00:39:17,791 --> 00:39:18,625
Like, I'm not going to die.

1906
00:39:18,625 --> 00:39:19,375
People have made,

1907
00:39:19,375 --> 00:39:19,958
you know, hundreds

1908
00:39:19,958 --> 00:39:21,500
of X on these things,

1909
00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:23,750
but that you are

1910
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:24,208
if you're going

1911
00:39:24,208 --> 00:39:24,833
to try to think

1912
00:39:24,833 --> 00:39:26,166
that you're going to do that,

1913
00:39:26,166 --> 00:39:27,083
you are competing

1914
00:39:27,083 --> 00:39:27,666
against people

1915
00:39:27,666 --> 00:39:29,000
who've got far more insider

1916
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:29,666
knowledge than you.

1917
00:39:29,666 --> 00:39:30,500
They know exactly what

1918
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:31,083
the pins are about

1919
00:39:31,083 --> 00:39:32,666
to be pulled you down.

1920
00:39:32,666 --> 00:39:34,250
And in aggregate,

1921
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:35,541
all of the people attempting

1922
00:39:35,541 --> 00:39:36,583
this are actually down

1923
00:39:36,583 --> 00:39:37,541
on their money.

1924
00:39:37,541 --> 00:39:38,500
The reason being is

1925
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:39,250
because think about it

1926
00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:39,625
for a minute.

1927
00:39:39,625 --> 00:39:40,583
I mean, the

1928
00:39:40,583 --> 00:39:41,166
is taking

1929
00:39:41,166 --> 00:39:42,208
whatever their percentage

1930
00:39:42,208 --> 00:39:44,166
that their trading fees

1931
00:39:44,166 --> 00:39:46,916
or their, owed and the spread.

1932
00:39:46,916 --> 00:39:49,041
So when you add that up,

1933
00:39:49,041 --> 00:39:49,833
if you actually

1934
00:39:49,833 --> 00:39:51,000
put the aggregate

1935
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,166
of all of those crypto

1936
00:39:52,166 --> 00:39:54,000
trading people together,

1937
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:54,833
they're actually down

1938
00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:56,875
by a couple of percent

1939
00:39:56,875 --> 00:39:57,791
because of the trading

1940
00:39:57,791 --> 00:39:58,791
fees on the exchanges.

1941
00:39:58,791 --> 00:40:00,000
These are zero sum

1942
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,916
or slightly negative

1943
00:40:00,916 --> 00:40:01,750
sum gains,

1944
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:03,000
or at least zero some gains

1945
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,375
when you put

1946
00:40:03,375 --> 00:40:04,708
the exchange in there

1947
00:40:04,708 --> 00:40:06,458
and when you and

1948
00:40:06,458 --> 00:40:07,916
and yeah, between traders

1949
00:40:07,916 --> 00:40:09,041
they're actually in aggregate

1950
00:40:09,041 --> 00:40:10,125
down on their money.

1951
00:40:10,125 --> 00:40:11,958
And then it gets even worse.

1952
00:40:13,083 --> 00:40:14,541
When you consider that it's

1953
00:40:14,541 --> 00:40:15,166
only a very,

1954
00:40:15,166 --> 00:40:15,750
very small

1955
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:16,625
percentage of traders

1956
00:40:16,625 --> 00:40:18,666
that make all of the gains

1957
00:40:18,666 --> 00:40:19,541
and everyone else

1958
00:40:19,541 --> 00:40:20,458
who naively sort of

1959
00:40:20,458 --> 00:40:21,500
jumped in on the pump,

1960
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:22,041
they're the ones that

1961
00:40:22,041 --> 00:40:23,791
get dumped on the 90.

1962
00:40:23,791 --> 00:40:24,625
More than 90

1963
00:40:24,625 --> 00:40:25,791
plus percent of these people

1964
00:40:25,791 --> 00:40:26,833
don't make any money.

1965
00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:28,166
And it all gets concentrated

1966
00:40:28,166 --> 00:40:30,208
on those few insiders

1967
00:40:30,208 --> 00:40:32,666
that have the advantages that

1968
00:40:32,666 --> 00:40:33,833
the the,

1969
00:40:33,833 --> 00:40:35,250
the sort of neat people,

1970
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:35,875
naive people

1971
00:40:35,875 --> 00:40:36,541
just sitting at home

1972
00:40:36,541 --> 00:40:38,500
on their trading platform

1973
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,291
just don't have.

1974
00:40:40,291 --> 00:40:41,875
So it's a mug's game, really,

1975
00:40:41,875 --> 00:40:43,791
at the end of the day, like

1976
00:40:43,791 --> 00:40:44,916
if you just want to say

1977
00:40:44,916 --> 00:40:45,833
what they say exactly,

1978
00:40:45,833 --> 00:40:46,791
say that gambling.

1979
00:40:46,791 --> 00:40:48,000
Look at my,

1980
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,541
libertarian, relatively

1981
00:40:49,541 --> 00:40:50,500
libertarian views.

1982
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:51,458
I don't think these things

1983
00:40:51,458 --> 00:40:53,041
should be banned.

1984
00:40:53,041 --> 00:40:54,416
I just in favor

1985
00:40:54,416 --> 00:40:55,500
of being honest about them

1986
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:56,125
and calling them out

1987
00:40:56,125 --> 00:40:57,333
for what they are.

1988
00:40:57,333 --> 00:40:58,541
If people want to gamble

1989
00:40:58,541 --> 00:40:59,125
and they know that's

1990
00:40:59,125 --> 00:40:59,875
what they're doing,

1991
00:40:59,875 --> 00:41:00,625
good luck to them.

1992
00:41:02,333 --> 00:41:03,583
But let's stop pretending

1993
00:41:03,583 --> 00:41:04,375
that these things

1994
00:41:04,375 --> 00:41:05,041
are innovative

1995
00:41:05,041 --> 00:41:06,000
and new and are going to,

1996
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,041
you know, and

1997
00:41:07,041 --> 00:41:08,000
going to change the world

1998
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,541
and all of this.

1999
00:41:08,541 --> 00:41:11,541
No, they're just gambling and

2000
00:41:11,708 --> 00:41:12,500
it is a little bit

2001
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:13,166
disappointing that

2002
00:41:13,166 --> 00:41:13,708
when you see

2003
00:41:13,708 --> 00:41:14,375
sort of people

2004
00:41:14,375 --> 00:41:16,166
promoting this idea of, of,

2005
00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:17,875
of, of gambling,

2006
00:41:17,875 --> 00:41:19,041
and then to be honest,

2007
00:41:19,041 --> 00:41:20,000
there was a degree of that

2008
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,125
at the disappointed

2009
00:41:21,125 --> 00:41:22,041
to hear a little bit.

2010
00:41:22,041 --> 00:41:23,125
One of the speakers there

2011
00:41:23,125 --> 00:41:25,000
who was

2012
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,000
I don't want to sort of

2013
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,000
I don't want to call him out,

2014
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:28,333
I think

2015
00:41:28,333 --> 00:41:28,750
I don't think

2016
00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:29,375
his motives

2017
00:41:29,375 --> 00:41:32,125
were nefarious, but,

2018
00:41:32,125 --> 00:41:33,375
he was actually at like a

2019
00:41:33,375 --> 00:41:34,625
they do actually do not do

2020
00:41:34,625 --> 00:41:37,250
bitcoin and slash crypto,

2021
00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:38,208
courses at,

2022
00:41:38,208 --> 00:41:39,333
at the university now.

2023
00:41:39,333 --> 00:41:40,333
And it was actually literally

2024
00:41:40,333 --> 00:41:41,333
one of the professors

2025
00:41:41,333 --> 00:41:41,875
who was talking

2026
00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:42,625
about his history

2027
00:41:42,625 --> 00:41:43,958
of sort of essentially

2028
00:41:43,958 --> 00:41:45,041
trading these tokens

2029
00:41:45,041 --> 00:41:45,416
and saying

2030
00:41:45,416 --> 00:41:46,583
how you can dabble in them

2031
00:41:46,583 --> 00:41:47,333
and you'll yeah,

2032
00:41:47,333 --> 00:41:47,833
you could wake

2033
00:41:47,833 --> 00:41:48,625
up, up your money

2034
00:41:48,625 --> 00:41:50,500
or wake up broke, you know,

2035
00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:51,125
and it sort of

2036
00:41:51,125 --> 00:41:52,250
seemed to be a kind

2037
00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:53,500
of a sketchy thing

2038
00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:55,041
at a university to be kind of

2039
00:41:55,041 --> 00:41:55,791
I don't know whether it is

2040
00:41:55,791 --> 00:41:57,125
encouraging it, but even

2041
00:41:58,458 --> 00:41:59,208
he certainly wasn't

2042
00:41:59,208 --> 00:41:59,875
condemning it.

2043
00:41:59,875 --> 00:42:00,833
He certainly wasn't

2044
00:42:00,833 --> 00:42:01,791
giving any kind of

2045
00:42:01,791 --> 00:42:02,791
warning against it.

2046
00:42:02,791 --> 00:42:03,833
And I sort of felt like say,

2047
00:42:03,833 --> 00:42:04,541
well, you know, okay.

2048
00:42:04,541 --> 00:42:04,750
Yeah,

2049
00:42:04,750 --> 00:42:05,291
you could dabble

2050
00:42:05,291 --> 00:42:06,250
in this stuff.

2051
00:42:06,250 --> 00:42:07,208
I mean, what's next?

2052
00:42:07,208 --> 00:42:08,791
I mean, you know,

2053
00:42:08,791 --> 00:42:11,125
heroin dabbling that drugs.

2054
00:42:11,125 --> 00:42:11,375
I mean,

2055
00:42:11,375 --> 00:42:11,583
you know,

2056
00:42:11,583 --> 00:42:12,416
the heroin addiction,

2057
00:42:12,416 --> 00:42:13,166
I mean, you can dabble

2058
00:42:13,166 --> 00:42:14,166
in all these sorts of things.

2059
00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:14,750
I mean,

2060
00:42:14,750 --> 00:42:15,958
gambling and drugs

2061
00:42:15,958 --> 00:42:17,333
and all these things are very,

2062
00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:19,458
very destructive behaviors.

2063
00:42:19,458 --> 00:42:21,583
Yeah.

2064
00:42:21,583 --> 00:42:22,708
Now, gambling might not be

2065
00:42:22,708 --> 00:42:23,458
as damaging

2066
00:42:23,458 --> 00:42:24,291
to your physical health

2067
00:42:24,291 --> 00:42:26,333
as drugs, but,

2068
00:42:26,333 --> 00:42:29,333
it absolutely destroys lives.

2069
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:30,625
It rips.

2070
00:42:30,625 --> 00:42:31,916
It destroys families.

2071
00:42:31,916 --> 00:42:34,375
I mean, it's,

2072
00:42:34,375 --> 00:42:36,375
it just like it.

2073
00:42:36,375 --> 00:42:37,833
And depending on city.

2074
00:42:37,833 --> 00:42:39,166
Yeah,

2075
00:42:39,166 --> 00:42:40,583
to varying degrees,

2076
00:42:40,583 --> 00:42:43,166
it can be a very, very,

2077
00:42:43,166 --> 00:42:44,958
destructive addiction

2078
00:42:44,958 --> 00:42:46,458
to many people particularly.

2079
00:42:46,458 --> 00:42:47,625
And a lot of this

2080
00:42:47,625 --> 00:42:49,416
thing, it does attract people

2081
00:42:49,416 --> 00:42:50,083
with potential

2082
00:42:50,083 --> 00:42:51,083
gambling addictions.

2083
00:42:51,083 --> 00:42:52,416
And so I think as

2084
00:42:52,416 --> 00:42:53,750
responsible people, we should

2085
00:42:54,875 --> 00:42:55,583
always catch

2086
00:42:55,583 --> 00:42:56,416
it in those terms.

2087
00:42:56,416 --> 00:42:57,791
Just make sure that we say,

2088
00:42:57,791 --> 00:42:58,166
you know,

2089
00:42:58,166 --> 00:42:59,708
how just remind people

2090
00:42:59,708 --> 00:43:01,333
that how damaging gambling

2091
00:43:01,333 --> 00:43:02,458
behaviors can be

2092
00:43:02,458 --> 00:43:04,333
and that that ultimately is,

2093
00:43:04,333 --> 00:43:06,291
is what's going on here.

2094
00:43:06,291 --> 00:43:07,208
Not banning me,

2095
00:43:07,208 --> 00:43:08,375
not trying to tell people

2096
00:43:08,375 --> 00:43:08,791
what to do.

2097
00:43:08,791 --> 00:43:10,041
Just just be clear

2098
00:43:10,041 --> 00:43:11,333
about what it really is.

2099
00:43:11,333 --> 00:43:11,750
Yeah.

2100
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:13,083
Because Bitcoin is obviously

2101
00:43:13,083 --> 00:43:14,041
a lot more predictable

2102
00:43:14,041 --> 00:43:14,666
and stable

2103
00:43:14,666 --> 00:43:16,791
than these other tokens

2104
00:43:16,791 --> 00:43:17,541
because it has.

2105
00:43:17,541 --> 00:43:18,500
That long term view.

2106
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:19,000
It is it's

2107
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,750
not trying to sort of like

2108
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:20,958
you're

2109
00:43:20,958 --> 00:43:22,000
not trying to dabble in it

2110
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:23,000
just so you can get more of

2111
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,416
something else. Yeah.

2112
00:43:24,416 --> 00:43:25,666
But even then

2113
00:43:25,666 --> 00:43:26,208
involved in

2114
00:43:26,208 --> 00:43:26,916
crypto ever

2115
00:43:26,916 --> 00:43:29,291
wants to have more of of

2116
00:43:29,291 --> 00:43:30,500
if it wants to own more

2117
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,041
come rocket right.

2118
00:43:32,041 --> 00:43:33,000
No one is is

2119
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:35,125
is about that.

2120
00:43:35,125 --> 00:43:36,208
They think that they could

2121
00:43:36,208 --> 00:43:37,000
the whole point of

2122
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:37,833
it is to buy it

2123
00:43:37,833 --> 00:43:38,875
and then to dump it

2124
00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:39,791
at the optimal point

2125
00:43:39,791 --> 00:43:40,291
at the top,

2126
00:43:40,291 --> 00:43:41,666
so they can get more

2127
00:43:41,666 --> 00:43:43,291
or more Bitcoin.

2128
00:43:43,291 --> 00:43:44,000
Yeah, it's true.

2129
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:44,750
A lot of these people

2130
00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:45,666
actually they do

2131
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:46,458
believe in bitcoin

2132
00:43:46,458 --> 00:43:47,208
and they try to do it

2133
00:43:47,208 --> 00:43:49,625
to get more bitcoin.

2134
00:43:49,625 --> 00:43:50,291
You know I feel sorry

2135
00:43:50,291 --> 00:43:51,333
for some of these people

2136
00:43:51,333 --> 00:43:51,750
who think that

2137
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:52,791
some of these other tokens

2138
00:43:52,791 --> 00:43:54,500
have actually got a future.

2139
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:55,708
And that's where it gets,

2140
00:43:55,708 --> 00:43:56,666
you know, and

2141
00:43:56,666 --> 00:43:57,500
and when you've got

2142
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,000
I have nothing but contempt

2143
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,291
for these sort of influencers

2144
00:44:00,291 --> 00:44:00,750
that got the

2145
00:44:00,750 --> 00:44:01,791
crypto influencers.

2146
00:44:01,791 --> 00:44:02,666
And we've had a few of them

2147
00:44:02,666 --> 00:44:04,708
in Australia,

2148
00:44:04,708 --> 00:44:05,750
some of them that have got

2149
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:06,500
very big

2150
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:07,250
and then have had

2151
00:44:07,250 --> 00:44:09,000
spectacular falls

2152
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:09,708
when it's

2153
00:44:09,708 --> 00:44:11,541
when they've ended up,

2154
00:44:11,541 --> 00:44:11,875
you know,

2155
00:44:11,875 --> 00:44:12,750
having too much

2156
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:14,583
of their own, product

2157
00:44:14,583 --> 00:44:15,958
and ended up coming undone

2158
00:44:15,958 --> 00:44:17,125
very badly, leaving,

2159
00:44:18,291 --> 00:44:20,333
huge amounts of debt.

2160
00:44:20,333 --> 00:44:22,708
And,

2161
00:44:22,708 --> 00:44:23,708
in this particular case

2162
00:44:23,708 --> 00:44:24,333
that I have in mind,

2163
00:44:24,333 --> 00:44:25,041
some of your listeners

2164
00:44:25,041 --> 00:44:25,500
will know who I'm

2165
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:28,500
talking about.

2166
00:44:28,833 --> 00:44:29,500
Investors

2167
00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:31,166
ripped off and,

2168
00:44:31,166 --> 00:44:33,083
not to mention,

2169
00:44:33,083 --> 00:44:35,541
they use that their sort of,

2170
00:44:35,541 --> 00:44:37,208
prominence to sort of shill

2171
00:44:37,208 --> 00:44:38,375
tokens, they claim.

2172
00:44:38,375 --> 00:44:39,208
Oh, I don't have

2173
00:44:39,208 --> 00:44:40,041
I'm not getting paid

2174
00:44:40,041 --> 00:44:41,583
any kind of endorsement

2175
00:44:41,583 --> 00:44:42,291
or anything like that.

2176
00:44:42,291 --> 00:44:43,041
But if you've seen

2177
00:44:43,041 --> 00:44:44,250
these people's communications

2178
00:44:44,250 --> 00:44:45,333
behind the scenes,

2179
00:44:45,333 --> 00:44:45,750
there is

2180
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:46,791
definite self-interest

2181
00:44:46,791 --> 00:44:47,125
in there.

2182
00:44:47,125 --> 00:44:47,833
They've got

2183
00:44:47,833 --> 00:44:48,541
they do have an

2184
00:44:48,541 --> 00:44:49,791
allocation of tokens

2185
00:44:49,791 --> 00:44:51,458
or they'll talk about things

2186
00:44:51,458 --> 00:44:52,041
that they've given,

2187
00:44:52,041 --> 00:44:52,791
that they've been given

2188
00:44:52,791 --> 00:44:54,500
an incentive to talk about.

2189
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:56,000
The incentives for them align

2190
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:56,541
very well

2191
00:44:56,541 --> 00:44:57,791
as the kind of insiders

2192
00:44:57,791 --> 00:44:59,291
that I've warned about before

2193
00:44:59,291 --> 00:45:00,166
who are in the position

2194
00:45:00,166 --> 00:45:01,166
to dump on you

2195
00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:02,000
with the very things

2196
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:02,250
that they're

2197
00:45:02,250 --> 00:45:03,666
telling you to buy.

2198
00:45:03,666 --> 00:45:04,583
Well, then I'll tell you them.

2199
00:45:04,583 --> 00:45:05,458
So they're very careful

2200
00:45:05,458 --> 00:45:05,750
in the way

2201
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:06,333
they do what they say,

2202
00:45:06,333 --> 00:45:08,500
not financial advice.

2203
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:09,458
And then they go on and give

2204
00:45:09,458 --> 00:45:10,666
a load of financial advice.

2205
00:45:12,958 --> 00:45:14,208
Yeah.

2206
00:45:14,208 --> 00:45:15,666
And

2207
00:45:15,666 --> 00:45:16,291
but ultimately the

2208
00:45:16,291 --> 00:45:17,083
point of getting it

2209
00:45:17,083 --> 00:45:18,416
is no one wants,

2210
00:45:18,416 --> 00:45:19,000
no matter what

2211
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,208
they say about it,

2212
00:45:20,208 --> 00:45:21,791
no one ultimately wants to own

2213
00:45:21,791 --> 00:45:22,583
more of any of this

2214
00:45:22,583 --> 00:45:23,000
other stuff.

2215
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,041
It's only a vehicle

2216
00:45:24,041 --> 00:45:24,791
for getting more

2217
00:45:24,791 --> 00:45:26,083
of some other thing.

2218
00:45:26,083 --> 00:45:27,166
And that is also

2219
00:45:27,166 --> 00:45:28,250
your distinction between

2220
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:30,208
what is the Ponzi scheme

2221
00:45:30,208 --> 00:45:31,458
and what's the actual

2222
00:45:31,458 --> 00:45:33,208
real money?

2223
00:45:33,208 --> 00:45:34,166
Because people don't

2224
00:45:34,166 --> 00:45:34,916
buy bitcoin

2225
00:45:34,916 --> 00:45:36,291
just so they oh, some people,

2226
00:45:36,291 --> 00:45:37,291
some people buy bitcoin,

2227
00:45:37,291 --> 00:45:37,791
they just want to

2228
00:45:37,791 --> 00:45:38,875
get more dollars.

2229
00:45:38,875 --> 00:45:39,750
But the point is though,

2230
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:41,250
that there's a huge number,

2231
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:42,291
that there's a vast

2232
00:45:42,291 --> 00:45:43,500
number of people that aren't

2233
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:44,791
that are actually

2234
00:45:44,791 --> 00:45:45,750
using Bitcoin

2235
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:47,500
as their unit of account

2236
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:48,291
and are trying

2237
00:45:48,291 --> 00:45:49,708
to accumulate more bitcoin

2238
00:45:49,708 --> 00:45:51,750
because it is this it is fine.

2239
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:52,750
They are using it as money.

2240
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:53,250
It's not

2241
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:54,625
and therefore it's

2242
00:45:54,625 --> 00:45:55,958
not a Ponzi scheme.

2243
00:45:55,958 --> 00:45:56,833
Certainly not.

2244
00:45:56,833 --> 00:45:57,791
And not in the way

2245
00:45:57,791 --> 00:45:58,791
these other things are where

2246
00:45:58,791 --> 00:45:59,250
they're just trying

2247
00:45:59,250 --> 00:46:00,208
to get more of

2248
00:46:00,208 --> 00:46:01,666
of something else with it.

2249
00:46:01,666 --> 00:46:02,708
I don't know anyone who's

2250
00:46:02,708 --> 00:46:03,666
trying to get more,

2251
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:06,541
of pretty much any other token

2252
00:46:06,541 --> 00:46:07,125
you can think of.

2253
00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:07,875
It's always about

2254
00:46:07,875 --> 00:46:09,083
how you can trade that thing

2255
00:46:09,083 --> 00:46:10,250
to get more of a trade.

2256
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:11,833
The Bitcoin will say it.

2257
00:46:11,833 --> 00:46:13,708
Yeah, yeah.

2258
00:46:13,708 --> 00:46:15,000
Sorry, I just forgot

2259
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:15,583
what the point

2260
00:46:15,583 --> 00:46:16,916
I was going to make was

2261
00:46:16,916 --> 00:46:17,541
we were talking

2262
00:46:17,541 --> 00:46:19,791
about earlier on,

2263
00:46:19,791 --> 00:46:21,583
about, you know, gambling

2264
00:46:21,583 --> 00:46:23,833
with these speculative tokens.

2265
00:46:23,833 --> 00:46:24,333
And then I was just

2266
00:46:24,333 --> 00:46:26,125
going to make the point that,

2267
00:46:26,125 --> 00:46:26,458
you know,

2268
00:46:26,458 --> 00:46:27,625
even with Bitcoin, like,

2269
00:46:27,625 --> 00:46:29,291
if you receive advice

2270
00:46:29,291 --> 00:46:30,416
from a Bitcoin,

2271
00:46:30,416 --> 00:46:31,541
it's never to like

2272
00:46:31,541 --> 00:46:32,500
try to time

2273
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:34,750
the market or speculate

2274
00:46:34,750 --> 00:46:35,208
when you're going

2275
00:46:35,208 --> 00:46:36,000
to reach the top

2276
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:36,416
or when you're going

2277
00:46:36,416 --> 00:46:37,166
to reach the bottom.

2278
00:46:37,166 --> 00:46:38,625
It's always buy and hold.

2279
00:46:38,625 --> 00:46:39,500
The closest you get to

2280
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:40,458
it is like dollar cost

2281
00:46:40,458 --> 00:46:41,750
averaging type of advice,

2282
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:42,791
like which is the opposite

2283
00:46:42,791 --> 00:46:43,875
of trying to time the market.

2284
00:46:43,875 --> 00:46:44,458
It's a

2285
00:46:44,458 --> 00:46:45,750
yeah, just use it

2286
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:46,916
like you put your savings.

2287
00:46:46,916 --> 00:46:48,083
It's a savings account.

2288
00:46:48,083 --> 00:46:48,708
That's all it is.

2289
00:46:48,708 --> 00:46:50,208
Don't get rich quick scheme

2290
00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:51,583
at a not get poor

2291
00:46:51,583 --> 00:46:53,333
slowly scheme is someone

2292
00:46:53,333 --> 00:46:54,458
else coined that expression.

2293
00:46:55,708 --> 00:46:57,000
And

2294
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,041
and so you just treat it

2295
00:46:58,041 --> 00:47:00,208
like a savings account.

2296
00:47:00,208 --> 00:47:01,500
It wasn't always something

2297
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:03,750
that you could,

2298
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:04,708
as safely do that

2299
00:47:04,708 --> 00:47:05,750
with as you can now.

2300
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:06,458
I think now

2301
00:47:06,458 --> 00:47:07,583
that it's reached a size

2302
00:47:07,583 --> 00:47:10,000
whereby it's,

2303
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:10,958
it's not like it's

2304
00:47:10,958 --> 00:47:11,666
so entrenched

2305
00:47:11,666 --> 00:47:12,625
now in the, in

2306
00:47:12,625 --> 00:47:14,458
everything that

2307
00:47:14,458 --> 00:47:15,625
the prospect of it

2308
00:47:15,625 --> 00:47:17,000
going to zero

2309
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,250
is no longer a meaningful one,

2310
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:20,500
like the legacy

2311
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:21,291
system has a far

2312
00:47:21,291 --> 00:47:21,958
greater chance

2313
00:47:21,958 --> 00:47:23,500
of taking, of wiping you out

2314
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:25,791
now than Bitcoin does. Yeah.

2315
00:47:25,791 --> 00:47:26,750
But it could have been argued

2316
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:28,750
ten years ago that

2317
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:29,791
you were taking a risk,

2318
00:47:29,791 --> 00:47:31,250
not necessarily a risk in that

2319
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:32,666
this thing was any good.

2320
00:47:32,666 --> 00:47:33,208
I think anyone

2321
00:47:33,208 --> 00:47:33,791
who understood it

2322
00:47:33,791 --> 00:47:34,375
realized that

2323
00:47:34,375 --> 00:47:35,541
this thing works.

2324
00:47:35,541 --> 00:47:36,916
And solves the problem,

2325
00:47:36,916 --> 00:47:39,041
but the risk that

2326
00:47:39,041 --> 00:47:39,791
there wouldn't be

2327
00:47:39,791 --> 00:47:41,166
a significant number

2328
00:47:41,166 --> 00:47:42,208
of other people in the world

2329
00:47:42,208 --> 00:47:42,708
that would come

2330
00:47:42,708 --> 00:47:44,375
to the same realization,

2331
00:47:44,375 --> 00:47:45,416
because you need to have that

2332
00:47:45,416 --> 00:47:46,375
if you're going to have money,

2333
00:47:46,375 --> 00:47:47,750
it has to be something

2334
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:49,041
that enough other people

2335
00:47:49,041 --> 00:47:51,166
are willing to put value into,

2336
00:47:53,041 --> 00:47:54,500
in order for it to

2337
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:57,208
hold value for you.

2338
00:47:57,208 --> 00:47:58,041
The menu.

2339
00:47:58,041 --> 00:47:58,708
If you're going to put

2340
00:47:58,708 --> 00:47:59,791
your money in there,

2341
00:47:59,791 --> 00:48:00,833
you have to be able to.

2342
00:48:00,833 --> 00:48:02,416
Ideally, you would want

2343
00:48:02,416 --> 00:48:03,958
someone else down the line

2344
00:48:03,958 --> 00:48:05,750
to be able to give you back.

2345
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:06,708
So if you've

2346
00:48:06,708 --> 00:48:07,833
if you've created a certain

2347
00:48:07,833 --> 00:48:08,125
you've done

2348
00:48:08,125 --> 00:48:09,041
a certain amount of work

2349
00:48:09,041 --> 00:48:10,000
or you've created a certain

2350
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,166
amount of economic output

2351
00:48:12,166 --> 00:48:13,541
and you want to hold that

2352
00:48:13,541 --> 00:48:14,333
for the future,

2353
00:48:14,333 --> 00:48:15,083
that economic

2354
00:48:15,083 --> 00:48:15,875
potential energy,

2355
00:48:15,875 --> 00:48:18,000
as I describe it, you,

2356
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,250
at least in the future,

2357
00:48:19,250 --> 00:48:19,708
would hope

2358
00:48:19,708 --> 00:48:20,458
that you could at least

2359
00:48:20,458 --> 00:48:21,833
get that amount of energy back

2360
00:48:21,833 --> 00:48:22,541
out of the system

2361
00:48:22,541 --> 00:48:24,250
to benefit you at some,

2362
00:48:24,250 --> 00:48:27,250
some faraway point.

2363
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:28,250
Bitcoin.

2364
00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:29,041
While it's growing, though,

2365
00:48:29,041 --> 00:48:29,708
it's going to do a

2366
00:48:29,708 --> 00:48:30,833
hell of a lot better than that

2367
00:48:30,833 --> 00:48:31,791
because it's

2368
00:48:31,791 --> 00:48:32,875
it's still growing.

2369
00:48:32,875 --> 00:48:34,166
But as long as it does

2370
00:48:34,166 --> 00:48:34,750
at least that.

2371
00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:36,291
But, you know, if

2372
00:48:36,291 --> 00:48:37,541
if it had never caught on,

2373
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:40,541
then, and no one had

2374
00:48:40,541 --> 00:48:41,416
just ever come around

2375
00:48:41,416 --> 00:48:44,416
to the realization then,

2376
00:48:44,416 --> 00:48:44,875
that, yeah,

2377
00:48:44,875 --> 00:48:45,875
you would have it, that

2378
00:48:45,875 --> 00:48:46,375
you would have

2379
00:48:46,375 --> 00:48:47,291
essentially lost

2380
00:48:47,291 --> 00:48:47,958
the economic

2381
00:48:47,958 --> 00:48:48,708
potential energy

2382
00:48:48,708 --> 00:48:51,500
that you put in.

2383
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:52,375
That's why now

2384
00:48:52,375 --> 00:48:53,000
when people talk

2385
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,416
about getting into Bitcoin,

2386
00:48:54,416 --> 00:48:54,833
they talk about,

2387
00:48:54,833 --> 00:48:55,250
well, they can

2388
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:55,916
they put all that,

2389
00:48:55,916 --> 00:48:56,875
they they talk about

2390
00:48:56,875 --> 00:48:57,875
all that's put every space

2391
00:48:57,875 --> 00:49:00,875
if they have some of the more,

2392
00:49:01,666 --> 00:49:02,541
adventurous people

2393
00:49:02,541 --> 00:49:03,750
talk about getting loans

2394
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:04,375
and that sort of thing,

2395
00:49:04,375 --> 00:49:06,958
this is not what people said.

2396
00:49:06,958 --> 00:49:08,000
Back in the early days,

2397
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,416
even the most, ardent

2398
00:49:09,416 --> 00:49:10,250
Bitcoin bulls

2399
00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:10,791
would say things

2400
00:49:10,791 --> 00:49:11,833
like, don't invest

2401
00:49:11,833 --> 00:49:12,291
more than you

2402
00:49:12,291 --> 00:49:13,208
can afford to lose.

2403
00:49:13,208 --> 00:49:15,291
It was yeah, maybe put it.

2404
00:49:15,291 --> 00:49:16,916
And now it's.

2405
00:49:16,916 --> 00:49:18,625
Their money savers.

2406
00:49:18,625 --> 00:49:19,750
Yeah.

2407
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:21,000
Say let's go to saying

2408
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,416
which is the inverse of that.

2409
00:49:22,416 --> 00:49:24,000
Do you know what it is like.

2410
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:24,583
Don't know.

2411
00:49:24,583 --> 00:49:26,125
Right. Don't you don't like.

2412
00:49:26,125 --> 00:49:27,166
Keep out of it.

2413
00:49:27,166 --> 00:49:27,708
Don't keep it.

2414
00:49:27,708 --> 00:49:28,166
Say it bull

2415
00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:28,791
that you can afford to

2416
00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:30,958
or don't. Yeah. Or.

2417
00:49:30,958 --> 00:49:31,791
Yeah. That's right.

2418
00:49:33,208 --> 00:49:35,000
Put in what only put.

2419
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:35,208
Yeah.

2420
00:49:35,208 --> 00:49:36,333
Put in what you,

2421
00:49:36,333 --> 00:49:38,250
What you can't afford to lose.

2422
00:49:38,250 --> 00:49:39,250
Yeah, exactly.

2423
00:49:39,250 --> 00:49:39,541
And that,

2424
00:49:39,541 --> 00:49:40,583
that is the mindset

2425
00:49:40,583 --> 00:49:42,375
that I have as well.

2426
00:49:42,375 --> 00:49:43,875
Like, for me, it's,

2427
00:49:43,875 --> 00:49:44,875
buy and hold.

2428
00:49:44,875 --> 00:49:46,041
Forget I have it.

2429
00:49:46,041 --> 00:49:48,208
Right. Those storms.

2430
00:49:48,208 --> 00:49:50,250
And then if I get emotional

2431
00:49:50,250 --> 00:49:51,625
about the drawbacks,

2432
00:49:51,625 --> 00:49:52,166
reach out

2433
00:49:52,166 --> 00:49:55,166
to a friendly org for support.

2434
00:49:56,666 --> 00:49:56,958
Because it

2435
00:49:56,958 --> 00:49:57,208
all of

2436
00:49:57,208 --> 00:49:57,833
the other things

2437
00:49:57,833 --> 00:49:59,250
you had to do all this stuff,

2438
00:49:59,250 --> 00:50:00,583
like you've got to stake it

2439
00:50:00,583 --> 00:50:01,250
in order to

2440
00:50:01,250 --> 00:50:02,666
so you don't get deluded.

2441
00:50:02,666 --> 00:50:03,416
You got to do all this

2442
00:50:03,416 --> 00:50:04,750
and you've got to keep it in a

2443
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:06,291
in wallets that are for,

2444
00:50:06,291 --> 00:50:06,833
you know,

2445
00:50:06,833 --> 00:50:07,375
typically are

2446
00:50:07,375 --> 00:50:10,375
online connected.

2447
00:50:10,666 --> 00:50:11,208
And yeah.

2448
00:50:11,208 --> 00:50:11,875
So you can't

2449
00:50:11,875 --> 00:50:12,833
it can't just be

2450
00:50:12,833 --> 00:50:13,833
you can't just simply

2451
00:50:13,833 --> 00:50:15,750
save your money.

2452
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:16,750
You have to jump

2453
00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:17,333
through all sorts

2454
00:50:17,333 --> 00:50:18,166
of other hoops to,

2455
00:50:18,166 --> 00:50:18,625
to keep

2456
00:50:18,625 --> 00:50:19,166
because you've got to keep

2457
00:50:19,166 --> 00:50:19,750
trading it

2458
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:20,500
or turning it over

2459
00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:21,916
into the next big thing.

2460
00:50:21,916 --> 00:50:22,583
This is what they do.

2461
00:50:22,583 --> 00:50:23,708
That is this is dying.

2462
00:50:23,708 --> 00:50:24,291
So you've got to move it

2463
00:50:24,291 --> 00:50:25,083
into the next one

2464
00:50:25,083 --> 00:50:25,458
and the next

2465
00:50:25,458 --> 00:50:26,791
speculative thing.

2466
00:50:26,791 --> 00:50:27,791
Meanwhile bitcoins,

2467
00:50:27,791 --> 00:50:28,875
they're just humming along.

2468
00:50:28,875 --> 00:50:29,666
All you had to do

2469
00:50:29,666 --> 00:50:30,708
is just buy it.

2470
00:50:30,708 --> 00:50:31,333
Every shit

2471
00:50:31,333 --> 00:50:32,708
coin, is it that ever was.

2472
00:50:32,708 --> 00:50:33,333
No matter how much

2473
00:50:33,333 --> 00:50:34,041
they might have made,

2474
00:50:34,041 --> 00:50:34,500
they still would

2475
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:35,458
have done better in the end

2476
00:50:35,458 --> 00:50:37,083
if they just put that time

2477
00:50:37,083 --> 00:50:37,666
and effort

2478
00:50:37,666 --> 00:50:38,750
and money

2479
00:50:38,750 --> 00:50:39,458
into bitcoin

2480
00:50:39,458 --> 00:50:40,666
right in the start.

2481
00:50:40,666 --> 00:50:41,291
We'll have to wait

2482
00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:43,166
for ten years to go outside.

2483
00:50:43,166 --> 00:50:45,083
I told the students, is this

2484
00:50:45,083 --> 00:50:45,500
you guys

2485
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:46,666
sitting behind computers

2486
00:50:46,666 --> 00:50:47,416
because all you're doing

2487
00:50:47,416 --> 00:50:48,208
is like you're

2488
00:50:48,208 --> 00:50:48,708
you're sitting

2489
00:50:48,708 --> 00:50:49,375
at your computer.

2490
00:50:49,375 --> 00:50:50,125
The other guys

2491
00:50:50,125 --> 00:50:50,458
person

2492
00:50:50,458 --> 00:50:51,625
sitting at their computer,

2493
00:50:51,625 --> 00:50:52,916
they're trying to take

2494
00:50:52,916 --> 00:50:53,333
they're trying

2495
00:50:53,333 --> 00:50:54,083
to take your money.

2496
00:50:54,083 --> 00:50:54,500
You're trying to

2497
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:55,750
take their money.

2498
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:57,750
Nothing's been created here,

2499
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:58,583
just the other guy

2500
00:50:58,583 --> 00:50:59,166
trying to take the

2501
00:50:59,166 --> 00:50:59,958
other guy's money.

2502
00:51:00,958 --> 00:51:02,541
And you're spending.

2503
00:51:02,541 --> 00:51:03,000
And how

2504
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,500
many hours you guys have spent

2505
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:05,791
both at the end

2506
00:51:05,791 --> 00:51:07,208
to try to do this,

2507
00:51:07,208 --> 00:51:08,250
which is the number of hours

2508
00:51:08,250 --> 00:51:08,666
that are spent

2509
00:51:08,666 --> 00:51:10,708
staring at charts and

2510
00:51:10,708 --> 00:51:11,875
working out positions

2511
00:51:11,875 --> 00:51:12,666
and doing all of this

2512
00:51:12,666 --> 00:51:13,541
when the whole time

2513
00:51:13,541 --> 00:51:14,625
all you had to do

2514
00:51:14,625 --> 00:51:15,583
was just put your money

2515
00:51:15,583 --> 00:51:16,750
into bitcoin,

2516
00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:17,666
hold the private keys

2517
00:51:17,666 --> 00:51:19,458
yourself, keep it safe

2518
00:51:19,458 --> 00:51:20,875
and just go outside.

2519
00:51:20,875 --> 00:51:22,250
Touch grass too.

2520
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:23,458
Whatever you got to do,

2521
00:51:23,458 --> 00:51:25,666
not worry about it.

2522
00:51:25,666 --> 00:51:27,166
I know you have some.

2523
00:51:27,166 --> 00:51:28,083
And you'd have done,

2524
00:51:28,083 --> 00:51:29,750
you know, in the last

2525
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:30,458
you'd have done

2526
00:51:30,458 --> 00:51:33,375
no 100 X in the last,

2527
00:51:33,375 --> 00:51:35,333
you know, 7 or 8 years.

2528
00:51:35,333 --> 00:51:37,750
That was. Yeah.

2529
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:39,208
Yeah. Yeah.

2530
00:51:39,208 --> 00:51:40,458
It was that and it

2531
00:51:40,458 --> 00:51:41,750
and and the

2532
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:43,041
and you know, nothing

2533
00:51:43,041 --> 00:51:44,208
none of these things ever.

2534
00:51:44,208 --> 00:51:45,083
These are the things

2535
00:51:45,083 --> 00:51:45,375
by the way.

2536
00:51:45,375 --> 00:51:45,833
They all had their

2537
00:51:45,833 --> 00:51:47,041
peak in 2017.

2538
00:51:49,166 --> 00:51:50,500
Ethereum

2539
00:51:50,500 --> 00:51:51,833
is great chart

2540
00:51:51,833 --> 00:51:53,166
from Jane's check.

2541
00:51:53,166 --> 00:51:53,666
Pointed out

2542
00:51:53,666 --> 00:51:54,291
that Ethereum

2543
00:51:54,291 --> 00:51:55,916
has now been down

2544
00:51:55,916 --> 00:51:56,791
70, I think

2545
00:51:56,791 --> 00:51:58,375
73% of all the days

2546
00:51:58,375 --> 00:51:59,083
that it's existed.

2547
00:51:59,083 --> 00:52:01,166
It's been in the red 20, 73%

2548
00:52:01,166 --> 00:52:02,666
of the time against Bitcoin.

2549
00:52:02,666 --> 00:52:03,583
So there's therefore there's

2550
00:52:03,583 --> 00:52:04,083
only something

2551
00:52:04,083 --> 00:52:05,750
like 27%

2552
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:07,166
of the days of Bitcoin

2553
00:52:07,166 --> 00:52:08,791
of, of Ethereum's existence

2554
00:52:08,791 --> 00:52:09,500
that if you bought

2555
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:12,500
that you would be ahead,

2556
00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:14,875
on your Bitcoin investment.

2557
00:52:14,875 --> 00:52:16,083
And as and the longer

2558
00:52:16,083 --> 00:52:17,375
it goes on the,

2559
00:52:17,375 --> 00:52:18,416
the the smaller

2560
00:52:18,416 --> 00:52:19,583
that percentages of days

2561
00:52:19,583 --> 00:52:20,750
ahead in the Etherium

2562
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:21,625
there are because it's

2563
00:52:21,625 --> 00:52:22,208
a continuing

2564
00:52:22,208 --> 00:52:23,708
to trend downwards

2565
00:52:23,708 --> 00:52:24,666
against Bitcoin

2566
00:52:24,666 --> 00:52:25,958
as we said it always would.

2567
00:52:25,958 --> 00:52:27,583
Because not only

2568
00:52:27,583 --> 00:52:28,708
is it sort of essentially

2569
00:52:28,708 --> 00:52:29,666
trying to solve problems

2570
00:52:29,666 --> 00:52:31,500
that don't exist,

2571
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:32,541
it's also gets

2572
00:52:32,541 --> 00:52:33,541
because it's the second

2573
00:52:33,541 --> 00:52:34,375
and third and fourth

2574
00:52:34,375 --> 00:52:35,250
or whatever thing alone,

2575
00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:36,125
it has no shelling

2576
00:52:36,125 --> 00:52:37,333
point around it.

2577
00:52:37,333 --> 00:52:38,333
There's no reason

2578
00:52:38,333 --> 00:52:39,958
why you have

2579
00:52:39,958 --> 00:52:41,250
to remain loyal to a

2580
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:41,750
if you

2581
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:42,958
if you think that those

2582
00:52:42,958 --> 00:52:43,791
smart contracts

2583
00:52:43,791 --> 00:52:44,875
are interesting.

2584
00:52:44,875 --> 00:52:45,458
But he might

2585
00:52:45,458 --> 00:52:46,083
genuinely think

2586
00:52:46,083 --> 00:52:46,625
that there are things

2587
00:52:46,625 --> 00:52:47,666
that you can do on those

2588
00:52:47,666 --> 00:52:49,583
on those platforms.

2589
00:52:49,583 --> 00:52:49,916
Well,

2590
00:52:49,916 --> 00:52:50,750
you don't need to do them

2591
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:51,250
on Ethereum.

2592
00:52:51,250 --> 00:52:52,166
If as soon as Ethereum

2593
00:52:52,166 --> 00:52:53,083
gets too expensive,

2594
00:52:54,250 --> 00:52:55,458
you could do them on

2595
00:52:55,458 --> 00:52:57,083
numerous other smart

2596
00:52:57,083 --> 00:52:58,125
contract blockchains

2597
00:52:58,125 --> 00:53:00,750
like Solana, roll, NEM

2598
00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:01,500
or whatever,

2599
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:02,416
I mean, and these

2600
00:53:02,416 --> 00:53:03,500
and these are all

2601
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:04,250
coming in there

2602
00:53:04,250 --> 00:53:05,125
and cannibalizing

2603
00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:05,875
the same market

2604
00:53:05,875 --> 00:53:07,375
share of people,

2605
00:53:07,375 --> 00:53:07,916
so they are

2606
00:53:07,916 --> 00:53:08,875
genuinely unlimited.

2607
00:53:08,875 --> 00:53:09,416
That's why they

2608
00:53:09,416 --> 00:53:10,125
they could never

2609
00:53:10,125 --> 00:53:10,833
ultimately go up,

2610
00:53:10,833 --> 00:53:12,291
because they just get to keep

2611
00:53:12,291 --> 00:53:15,541
getting cannibalized by faster

2612
00:53:15,541 --> 00:53:16,416
and better smart

2613
00:53:16,416 --> 00:53:17,416
contract blockchains

2614
00:53:17,416 --> 00:53:18,625
because they again.

2615
00:53:18,625 --> 00:53:19,875
And then also

2616
00:53:19,875 --> 00:53:20,958
they're also trying to compete

2617
00:53:20,958 --> 00:53:22,000
on that tech perspective.

2618
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:22,583
I just want to make

2619
00:53:22,583 --> 00:53:23,250
this other point

2620
00:53:23,250 --> 00:53:25,166
about the distinction as well.

2621
00:53:25,166 --> 00:53:26,333
A lot of people

2622
00:53:26,333 --> 00:53:28,166
make the mistake of looking

2623
00:53:28,166 --> 00:53:29,875
at this whole thing,

2624
00:53:29,875 --> 00:53:30,708
looking at Bitcoin

2625
00:53:30,708 --> 00:53:31,625
in particular as a

2626
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:33,583
as a tech phenomenon,

2627
00:53:33,583 --> 00:53:34,541
when it's

2628
00:53:34,541 --> 00:53:35,541
it is to some extent,

2629
00:53:35,541 --> 00:53:36,875
but it's primarily

2630
00:53:36,875 --> 00:53:38,541
a monetary phenomenon.

2631
00:53:39,875 --> 00:53:40,708
Now, if you had

2632
00:53:40,708 --> 00:53:41,875
made the mistake

2633
00:53:41,875 --> 00:53:42,666
of looking at it

2634
00:53:42,666 --> 00:53:43,666
as primarily

2635
00:53:43,666 --> 00:53:45,708
a tech phenomenon,

2636
00:53:45,708 --> 00:53:46,541
you would have made

2637
00:53:46,541 --> 00:53:48,500
the false pattern match

2638
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,791
between,

2639
00:53:50,791 --> 00:53:53,458
Bitcoin and things like,

2640
00:53:53,458 --> 00:53:53,791
you know,

2641
00:53:53,791 --> 00:53:55,916
the Betamax video recorder.

2642
00:53:55,916 --> 00:53:57,458
That's probably

2643
00:53:57,458 --> 00:53:58,666
dating me a bit there,

2644
00:53:58,666 --> 00:53:59,791
but there's other

2645
00:53:59,791 --> 00:54:02,791
examples of like, you know,

2646
00:54:02,875 --> 00:54:03,166
you know,

2647
00:54:03,166 --> 00:54:05,750
when you've had a, a system

2648
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:06,875
that was the earlier one

2649
00:54:06,875 --> 00:54:08,125
and then it gets made obsolete

2650
00:54:08,125 --> 00:54:09,958
by a better one.

2651
00:54:09,958 --> 00:54:12,166
And if you looked at it

2652
00:54:12,166 --> 00:54:13,250
as a tech phenomenon,

2653
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:14,250
you would very easily

2654
00:54:14,250 --> 00:54:15,083
try to say, well,

2655
00:54:15,083 --> 00:54:15,916
you know, like it's

2656
00:54:15,916 --> 00:54:16,708
all the better one.

2657
00:54:16,708 --> 00:54:17,541
They kept saying is

2658
00:54:17,541 --> 00:54:19,708
Bitcoin is my space.

2659
00:54:19,708 --> 00:54:21,416
And Ethereum

2660
00:54:21,416 --> 00:54:22,000
or these other

2661
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:22,708
things are like,

2662
00:54:22,708 --> 00:54:22,916
you know,

2663
00:54:22,916 --> 00:54:25,000
the the newer social networks

2664
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,000
that came along afterwards

2665
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:26,708
that were,

2666
00:54:26,708 --> 00:54:27,208
that were much

2667
00:54:27,208 --> 00:54:27,958
more successful,

2668
00:54:27,958 --> 00:54:29,125
where my space

2669
00:54:29,125 --> 00:54:31,041
is essentially irrelevant.

2670
00:54:31,041 --> 00:54:32,333
That turned out to be

2671
00:54:32,333 --> 00:54:32,875
and we always said

2672
00:54:32,875 --> 00:54:34,458
it was was a false

2673
00:54:34,458 --> 00:54:35,500
pattern match.

2674
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:35,833
It was a

2675
00:54:35,833 --> 00:54:38,791
it was a false analogy. Yeah.

2676
00:54:38,791 --> 00:54:39,875
And that only came about

2677
00:54:39,875 --> 00:54:40,875
because you were looking at it

2678
00:54:40,875 --> 00:54:41,833
as a tech phenomenon,

2679
00:54:41,833 --> 00:54:42,250
because that's what

2680
00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:43,000
tech does, right?

2681
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:43,916
It's like a new tech

2682
00:54:43,916 --> 00:54:44,666
that gets better

2683
00:54:44,666 --> 00:54:46,250
and replaces the old tech.

2684
00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:47,666
But if you believe that,

2685
00:54:47,666 --> 00:54:48,000
you would have

2686
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,958
also had to believe that

2687
00:54:48,958 --> 00:54:49,708
whatever tech

2688
00:54:49,708 --> 00:54:51,833
came along to replace Bitcoin

2689
00:54:51,833 --> 00:54:52,666
would itself

2690
00:54:52,666 --> 00:54:53,541
get replaced by

2691
00:54:53,541 --> 00:54:54,875
something else,

2692
00:54:54,875 --> 00:54:55,666
and that would have

2693
00:54:55,666 --> 00:54:56,833
just gone on forever.

2694
00:54:56,833 --> 00:54:58,583
And you'd be back to the point

2695
00:54:58,583 --> 00:54:59,083
of not having

2696
00:54:59,083 --> 00:55:00,958
digital scarcity anymore,

2697
00:55:00,958 --> 00:55:01,666
you know?

2698
00:55:01,666 --> 00:55:02,625
And that's exactly

2699
00:55:02,625 --> 00:55:04,041
what has happened to Ethereum,

2700
00:55:04,041 --> 00:55:04,583
because the very

2701
00:55:04,583 --> 00:55:05,333
same arguments

2702
00:55:05,333 --> 00:55:06,250
that it tried to make

2703
00:55:06,250 --> 00:55:07,666
against Bitcoin

2704
00:55:07,666 --> 00:55:09,000
were made against it

2705
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,166
by these other smart

2706
00:55:10,166 --> 00:55:11,125
contract blockchains.

2707
00:55:11,125 --> 00:55:12,125
So they're going to continue

2708
00:55:12,125 --> 00:55:12,666
to come along

2709
00:55:12,666 --> 00:55:13,375
and add more of them

2710
00:55:13,375 --> 00:55:14,208
all the time

2711
00:55:14,208 --> 00:55:14,458
that they're

2712
00:55:14,458 --> 00:55:15,958
going to cannibalize

2713
00:55:15,958 --> 00:55:17,000
its market share.

2714
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:19,958
So it's not going

2715
00:55:19,958 --> 00:55:21,166
to end up being

2716
00:55:21,166 --> 00:55:22,583
so all of these things

2717
00:55:22,583 --> 00:55:25,583
ultimately will trend to zero

2718
00:55:25,625 --> 00:55:26,541
against Bitcoin.

2719
00:55:26,541 --> 00:55:27,833
I'm not going to say

2720
00:55:27,833 --> 00:55:28,291
that they're going

2721
00:55:28,291 --> 00:55:29,375
to be worthless.

2722
00:55:29,375 --> 00:55:30,791
They'll always be in anything,

2723
00:55:30,791 --> 00:55:32,000
even in the stupidest thing

2724
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:32,875
you can imagine.

2725
00:55:32,875 --> 00:55:33,666
There will always be

2726
00:55:33,666 --> 00:55:34,500
some diehards

2727
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:35,125
that will ascribe

2728
00:55:35,125 --> 00:55:36,416
some value to it

2729
00:55:36,416 --> 00:55:37,250
and keep

2730
00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:39,875
the bid just above zero.

2731
00:55:39,875 --> 00:55:42,083
But I say they will trend

2732
00:55:42,083 --> 00:55:43,041
towards zero

2733
00:55:43,041 --> 00:55:44,541
as as Bitcoin continues

2734
00:55:44,541 --> 00:55:45,583
to be adopted

2735
00:55:45,583 --> 00:55:46,416
and these other things

2736
00:55:46,416 --> 00:55:48,208
continue to essentially

2737
00:55:48,208 --> 00:55:49,291
cannibalize each other

2738
00:55:49,291 --> 00:55:50,000
for the fewer

2739
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:50,791
and fewer people

2740
00:55:50,791 --> 00:55:53,166
that remain committed.

2741
00:55:53,166 --> 00:55:54,291
You know, to whatever they,

2742
00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,000
whatever they think

2743
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:55,791
these things could do

2744
00:55:55,791 --> 00:55:57,541
for them.

2745
00:55:57,541 --> 00:55:59,541
Yeah. You know,

2746
00:55:59,541 --> 00:56:00,625
as a Bitcoin elder,

2747
00:56:00,625 --> 00:56:02,750
I actually want to ask you

2748
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:03,666
on, on something

2749
00:56:03,666 --> 00:56:04,583
because I want to validate

2750
00:56:04,583 --> 00:56:06,416
if my assumptions or the story

2751
00:56:06,416 --> 00:56:07,875
that I'm telling myself

2752
00:56:07,875 --> 00:56:08,708
has merit

2753
00:56:08,708 --> 00:56:10,500
or it's completely way off.

2754
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:11,333
You mentioned that,

2755
00:56:11,333 --> 00:56:12,125
you know, Bitcoin

2756
00:56:12,125 --> 00:56:13,166
is a monetary

2757
00:56:13,166 --> 00:56:13,791
phenomenon,

2758
00:56:13,791 --> 00:56:14,750
not a tech phenomenon.

2759
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:16,250
But on in my head,

2760
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:18,416
I am telling myself

2761
00:56:18,416 --> 00:56:21,583
the story that up until 2017,

2762
00:56:21,791 --> 00:56:23,166
the Bitcoin discussions

2763
00:56:23,166 --> 00:56:24,958
were largely dominated

2764
00:56:24,958 --> 00:56:27,250
by the tech crowd.

2765
00:56:27,250 --> 00:56:29,958
And then just say it's not.

2766
00:56:29,958 --> 00:56:30,500
It's not.

2767
00:56:30,500 --> 00:56:31,333
It is a kind of

2768
00:56:31,333 --> 00:56:31,750
it is a

2769
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:32,250
I'm not saying

2770
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:32,875
it's not a tech,

2771
00:56:32,875 --> 00:56:34,333
it's just not primarily

2772
00:56:34,333 --> 00:56:35,125
a tech phenomenon.

2773
00:56:35,125 --> 00:56:35,958
That's the thing.

2774
00:56:35,958 --> 00:56:37,125
Yes, yes,

2775
00:56:37,125 --> 00:56:38,625
obviously it involves a great

2776
00:56:38,625 --> 00:56:40,541
deal of tech. Yeah, a lot

2777
00:56:41,625 --> 00:56:42,958
is is doing that.

2778
00:56:42,958 --> 00:56:44,333
It's. Yeah.

2779
00:56:44,333 --> 00:56:44,666
Yeah.

2780
00:56:44,666 --> 00:56:45,041
Is it,

2781
00:56:45,041 --> 00:56:46,166
is it almost like Sophie?

2782
00:56:46,166 --> 00:56:47,750
Then came a moose. Sorry.

2783
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:49,125
The safety

2784
00:56:49,125 --> 00:56:51,375
and a moose came along and,

2785
00:56:51,375 --> 00:56:52,041
you know, released

2786
00:56:52,041 --> 00:56:53,333
the Bitcoin standard

2787
00:56:53,333 --> 00:56:55,250
and introduced

2788
00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:57,458
sort of the world to this,

2789
00:56:57,458 --> 00:56:57,875
you know,

2790
00:56:57,875 --> 00:57:00,875
reintroduced the world to,

2791
00:57:01,416 --> 00:57:02,458
Austrian economics

2792
00:57:02,458 --> 00:57:03,625
because it was

2793
00:57:03,625 --> 00:57:06,000
in my mind again,

2794
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,708
forgotten science.

2795
00:57:08,708 --> 00:57:09,500
And then he

2796
00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:10,208
basically made

2797
00:57:10,208 --> 00:57:10,791
the case for it.

2798
00:57:10,791 --> 00:57:11,791
No, this is actually

2799
00:57:11,791 --> 00:57:12,958
really hard money.

2800
00:57:12,958 --> 00:57:14,125
This is why this thing

2801
00:57:14,125 --> 00:57:16,083
is going to succeed.

2802
00:57:16,083 --> 00:57:18,083
Is that what happened?

2803
00:57:18,083 --> 00:57:19,375
Well, as influential

2804
00:57:19,375 --> 00:57:20,958
as influential as, safe.

2805
00:57:20,958 --> 00:57:23,500
Dean's book has been.

2806
00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:24,750
I wouldn't say

2807
00:57:24,750 --> 00:57:25,791
I wouldn't suggest

2808
00:57:25,791 --> 00:57:26,875
that it was the thing

2809
00:57:26,875 --> 00:57:27,500
that, like,

2810
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:28,541
suddenly crystallized

2811
00:57:28,541 --> 00:57:29,291
this idea

2812
00:57:29,291 --> 00:57:30,833
in, in everyone's mind,

2813
00:57:30,833 --> 00:57:31,625
Bitcoin from

2814
00:57:31,625 --> 00:57:34,541
its very beginnings, was,

2815
00:57:34,541 --> 00:57:35,125
posited

2816
00:57:35,125 --> 00:57:36,916
as an Austrian economic

2817
00:57:36,916 --> 00:57:38,291
by system.

2818
00:57:38,291 --> 00:57:39,791
And that's

2819
00:57:39,791 --> 00:57:40,958
because of its finite supply,

2820
00:57:40,958 --> 00:57:41,958
like it was designed

2821
00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:42,791
from the outset

2822
00:57:42,791 --> 00:57:43,916
with Austrian economic

2823
00:57:43,916 --> 00:57:45,250
principles in mind that were,

2824
00:57:46,750 --> 00:57:47,666
that were well known

2825
00:57:47,666 --> 00:57:49,916
to the earliest of, of,

2826
00:57:49,916 --> 00:57:51,083
earliest of, of people

2827
00:57:51,083 --> 00:57:52,875
involved in it.

2828
00:57:52,875 --> 00:57:53,541
I believe,

2829
00:57:53,541 --> 00:57:54,291
I think

2830
00:57:54,291 --> 00:57:55,583
some of the early writings

2831
00:57:55,583 --> 00:57:56,375
of the Mises

2832
00:57:56,375 --> 00:57:57,416
Institute, like

2833
00:57:57,416 --> 00:57:58,583
Bitcoin was spoken

2834
00:57:58,583 --> 00:58:00,625
about in, Austrian

2835
00:58:00,625 --> 00:58:01,625
economics circles

2836
00:58:01,625 --> 00:58:04,625
almost from day one.

2837
00:58:04,791 --> 00:58:06,041
The contribution saved

2838
00:58:06,041 --> 00:58:08,291
made, of course, is in writing

2839
00:58:08,291 --> 00:58:09,041
the Bitcoin standard.

2840
00:58:09,041 --> 00:58:09,666
That was perhaps

2841
00:58:09,666 --> 00:58:11,041
some popularizing

2842
00:58:11,041 --> 00:58:11,791
those concepts

2843
00:58:11,791 --> 00:58:13,000
to, to the,

2844
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,083
the very wide

2845
00:58:14,083 --> 00:58:14,458
not the,

2846
00:58:14,458 --> 00:58:15,000
the very

2847
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,041
large number of people that

2848
00:58:17,041 --> 00:58:17,708
were introduced

2849
00:58:17,708 --> 00:58:20,041
to those ideas through

2850
00:58:20,041 --> 00:58:20,541
his book.

2851
00:58:20,541 --> 00:58:21,625
That sold very well.

2852
00:58:21,625 --> 00:58:22,875
But that was

2853
00:58:22,875 --> 00:58:23,708
yeah, it was

2854
00:58:23,708 --> 00:58:24,375
that was quite

2855
00:58:24,375 --> 00:58:24,958
a number of years.

2856
00:58:24,958 --> 00:58:25,916
I'm not sure what year

2857
00:58:25,916 --> 00:58:27,083
the bitcoin stand.

2858
00:58:27,083 --> 00:58:28,708
I think it's 2017.

2859
00:58:28,708 --> 00:58:29,333
That's vaguely

2860
00:58:29,333 --> 00:58:30,541
what I remember saying that.

2861
00:58:30,541 --> 00:58:31,916
That sounds about right.

2862
00:58:31,916 --> 00:58:32,875
So yeah.

2863
00:58:32,875 --> 00:58:34,291
So that's

2864
00:58:34,291 --> 00:58:35,625
many, many years after

2865
00:58:35,625 --> 00:58:37,291
these ideas were already quite

2866
00:58:37,291 --> 00:58:39,291
the solid know already formed

2867
00:58:39,291 --> 00:58:40,708
the solid foundations for,

2868
00:58:40,708 --> 00:58:41,750
for not only Bitcoin,

2869
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:43,666
but also

2870
00:58:43,666 --> 00:58:44,750
many people's interest

2871
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:45,458
in Bitcoin

2872
00:58:45,458 --> 00:58:47,458
as a monetary phenomenon.

2873
00:58:47,458 --> 00:58:47,833
Yeah.

2874
00:58:47,833 --> 00:58:49,250
No, I've never heard of the

2875
00:58:49,250 --> 00:58:50,416
the Austrian economics

2876
00:58:50,416 --> 00:58:51,166
before of it,

2877
00:58:51,166 --> 00:58:52,250
the Bitcoin standard.

2878
00:58:52,250 --> 00:58:53,250
So that was

2879
00:58:53,250 --> 00:58:54,500
a very interesting. Yeah.

2880
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:55,125
So yeah.

2881
00:58:55,125 --> 00:58:55,625
So credit

2882
00:58:55,625 --> 00:58:56,750
to to safety and smoke

2883
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:57,083
if that's

2884
00:58:57,083 --> 00:58:57,833
what brought it to you.

2885
00:58:57,833 --> 00:58:59,000
But but it can say though

2886
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:00,458
that those ideas were,

2887
00:59:00,458 --> 00:59:01,416
were before that.

2888
00:59:02,791 --> 00:59:04,583
Well-established in, in

2889
00:59:04,583 --> 00:59:05,125
in people

2890
00:59:05,125 --> 00:59:06,291
in the circles of people

2891
00:59:06,291 --> 00:59:07,333
interested in

2892
00:59:07,333 --> 00:59:08,666
not only Austrian economics

2893
00:59:08,666 --> 00:59:09,250
but Bitcoin.

2894
00:59:09,250 --> 00:59:09,916
And the

2895
00:59:09,916 --> 00:59:12,083
marriage of the two was,

2896
00:59:12,083 --> 00:59:13,125
was appreciated

2897
00:59:13,125 --> 00:59:14,625
almost from day one.

2898
00:59:14,625 --> 00:59:16,708
Yeah.

2899
00:59:16,708 --> 00:59:18,291
Nice.

2900
00:59:18,291 --> 00:59:19,208
I wanted to ask you

2901
00:59:19,208 --> 00:59:20,541
about game theory.

2902
00:59:20,541 --> 00:59:21,666
This is a rabbit hole

2903
00:59:21,666 --> 00:59:22,875
I've never gone down.

2904
00:59:22,875 --> 00:59:23,666
How would you

2905
00:59:23,666 --> 00:59:26,666
explain it to a complete noob?

2906
00:59:27,666 --> 00:59:30,666
Oh,

2907
00:59:31,041 --> 00:59:31,916
I would explain it

2908
00:59:31,916 --> 00:59:34,916
in terms of.

2909
00:59:35,250 --> 00:59:37,041
People ultimately act

2910
00:59:37,041 --> 00:59:39,500
on incentives,

2911
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:41,125
and

2912
00:59:41,125 --> 00:59:42,208
the idea here is

2913
00:59:42,208 --> 00:59:44,833
that you are trying to predict

2914
00:59:44,833 --> 00:59:45,875
what the other guy

2915
00:59:45,875 --> 00:59:46,708
is going to do

2916
00:59:46,708 --> 00:59:49,708
based on what you think.

2917
00:59:50,583 --> 00:59:53,583
He is going to want to do,

2918
00:59:53,666 --> 00:59:56,250
to maximize

2919
00:59:56,250 --> 00:59:57,666
his own positive outcomes.

2920
00:59:57,666 --> 00:59:59,500
That's not

2921
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:02,500
very eloquent, but,

2922
01:00:02,875 --> 01:00:03,958
No, it makes sense.

2923
01:00:03,958 --> 01:00:04,500
There's a

2924
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:04,958
and there's

2925
01:00:04,958 --> 01:00:06,333
also a sort of second order

2926
01:00:06,333 --> 01:00:07,583
to that as well in that

2927
01:00:08,916 --> 01:00:10,416
an even more sophisticated

2928
01:00:10,416 --> 01:00:11,333
player in this,

2929
01:00:11,333 --> 01:00:12,166
because it is a kind of a

2930
01:00:12,166 --> 01:00:13,500
game, is also going to be

2931
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:14,333
not only thinking of

2932
01:00:14,333 --> 01:00:15,083
what's best for him,

2933
01:00:15,083 --> 01:00:16,208
but he's also

2934
01:00:16,208 --> 01:00:17,083
going to be thinking of what

2935
01:00:17,083 --> 01:00:18,958
he thinks you're going to do,

2936
01:00:18,958 --> 01:00:19,666
which means that

2937
01:00:19,666 --> 01:00:21,083
he's also thinking.

2938
01:00:21,083 --> 01:00:22,500
So it could go back and forth

2939
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:24,208
a bit like that as well.

2940
01:00:24,208 --> 01:00:25,916
And,

2941
01:00:25,916 --> 01:00:27,083
and so it's ultimately

2942
01:00:27,083 --> 01:00:27,750
all of the people

2943
01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:28,750
in, in a, in a,

2944
01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:31,750
in essentially a system.

2945
01:00:32,500 --> 01:00:34,875
Optimizing

2946
01:00:34,875 --> 01:00:35,875
their own outcomes.

2947
01:00:35,875 --> 01:00:36,333
And there's many

2948
01:00:36,333 --> 01:00:36,958
different ways

2949
01:00:36,958 --> 01:00:37,958
you could set up.

2950
01:00:37,958 --> 01:00:38,666
And you can set up

2951
01:00:38,666 --> 01:00:40,125
different systems

2952
01:00:40,125 --> 01:00:42,041
with different rules.

2953
01:00:42,041 --> 01:00:43,000
And they're going to lead

2954
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,875
to different outcomes

2955
01:00:44,875 --> 01:00:45,750
because of the way

2956
01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:46,791
in which it affects

2957
01:00:46,791 --> 01:00:47,833
people's behavior.

2958
01:00:47,833 --> 01:00:48,541
Assuming that

2959
01:00:48,541 --> 01:00:50,833
people in that system

2960
01:00:50,833 --> 01:00:51,833
are going to be acting

2961
01:00:51,833 --> 01:00:53,875
according to their own

2962
01:00:53,875 --> 01:00:55,875
rational self-interest,

2963
01:00:55,875 --> 01:00:57,208
the whole system breaks down.

2964
01:00:57,208 --> 01:00:58,375
If participants

2965
01:00:58,375 --> 01:00:59,333
are irrational.

2966
01:01:00,416 --> 01:01:01,375
So a good example of

2967
01:01:01,375 --> 01:01:02,750
game theory would be the idea

2968
01:01:02,750 --> 01:01:03,458
of mutually

2969
01:01:03,458 --> 01:01:04,375
assured destruction.

2970
01:01:04,375 --> 01:01:05,250
This is quite topical,

2971
01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:06,000
I think, like

2972
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,333
in the last week,

2973
01:01:07,333 --> 01:01:08,291
the doctrine of

2974
01:01:08,291 --> 01:01:10,958
mutually assured destruction.

2975
01:01:10,958 --> 01:01:13,041
And the idea is, is that,

2976
01:01:13,041 --> 01:01:13,791
if we have a whole

2977
01:01:13,791 --> 01:01:15,416
bunch of people that have got,

2978
01:01:15,416 --> 01:01:16,625
a whole bunch of superpowers

2979
01:01:16,625 --> 01:01:18,625
that have got nuclear weapons,

2980
01:01:18,625 --> 01:01:20,625
then it kind of ensures

2981
01:01:20,625 --> 01:01:21,458
a degree of peace

2982
01:01:21,458 --> 01:01:22,583
because

2983
01:01:22,583 --> 01:01:24,166
no one is going to want

2984
01:01:24,166 --> 01:01:27,166
to, like, increase the,

2985
01:01:28,791 --> 01:01:29,791
increase attention

2986
01:01:29,791 --> 01:01:31,750
to the point where,

2987
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:32,875
as soon as one guy,

2988
01:01:32,875 --> 01:01:33,875
one country drops

2989
01:01:33,875 --> 01:01:35,000
a nuclear weapon on the other,

2990
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,583
then that the retaliation

2991
01:01:36,583 --> 01:01:38,250
will destroy them as well.

2992
01:01:38,250 --> 01:01:39,666
So no one wants to escalate

2993
01:01:39,666 --> 01:01:41,791
the situation.

2994
01:01:41,791 --> 01:01:42,375
To the point,

2995
01:01:42,375 --> 01:01:43,250
because as soon as one

2996
01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:44,708
person launches a nuke,

2997
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:46,375
they're going to get

2998
01:01:46,375 --> 01:01:47,000
destroyed, too,

2999
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:47,541
because there's like,

3000
01:01:47,541 --> 01:01:48,291
enough power there

3001
01:01:48,291 --> 01:01:49,791
just to wipe out everybody

3002
01:01:49,791 --> 01:01:50,375
and so on.

3003
01:01:50,375 --> 01:01:51,500
And so what it ends up

3004
01:01:51,500 --> 01:01:53,000
doing is deterring

3005
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:53,541
that, gives them

3006
01:01:53,541 --> 01:01:55,708
that deterrence.

3007
01:01:55,708 --> 01:01:58,041
From anyone from,

3008
01:01:58,041 --> 01:01:59,333
from launching a nuke at all.

3009
01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:00,750
So but you sort of have them,

3010
01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:01,916
but you don't use them.

3011
01:02:01,916 --> 01:02:02,750
The having of them

3012
01:02:02,750 --> 01:02:03,416
kind of prevents

3013
01:02:03,416 --> 01:02:05,750
people from ever using them.

3014
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:07,041
That assumes that the,

3015
01:02:07,041 --> 01:02:08,666
the act as a rational,

3016
01:02:08,666 --> 01:02:10,583
the argument against allowing

3017
01:02:10,583 --> 01:02:12,833
someone like an Iran

3018
01:02:12,833 --> 01:02:13,791
to have

3019
01:02:13,791 --> 01:02:15,541
nuclear weapons is weird,

3020
01:02:15,541 --> 01:02:16,916
is that if there's

3021
01:02:16,916 --> 01:02:18,291
if you believe

3022
01:02:18,291 --> 01:02:18,875
that they are

3023
01:02:18,875 --> 01:02:21,333
a religious theocracy,

3024
01:02:21,333 --> 01:02:23,458
that may

3025
01:02:23,458 --> 01:02:26,458
that may believe that the,

3026
01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:28,000
second coming of Christ

3027
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:28,416
or the

3028
01:02:28,416 --> 01:02:29,875
or that's not the right word

3029
01:02:29,875 --> 01:02:31,375
for Islamic technocracy,

3030
01:02:31,375 --> 01:02:31,708
of course.

3031
01:02:31,708 --> 01:02:33,083
But if you believe that

3032
01:02:33,083 --> 01:02:34,333
they are not rational actors,

3033
01:02:34,333 --> 01:02:35,250
let's just leave it at that.

3034
01:02:35,250 --> 01:02:36,166
Let's not try to pick up.

3035
01:02:36,166 --> 01:02:36,541
Let's not

3036
01:02:36,541 --> 01:02:37,666
make this theological.

3037
01:02:37,666 --> 01:02:38,333
Let's just say that

3038
01:02:38,333 --> 01:02:39,250
if you didn't believe

3039
01:02:39,250 --> 01:02:39,583
that they were

3040
01:02:39,583 --> 01:02:41,166
rational actors,

3041
01:02:41,166 --> 01:02:42,333
then you wouldn't want them

3042
01:02:42,333 --> 01:02:42,958
holding nukes,

3043
01:02:42,958 --> 01:02:43,500
because they would.

3044
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:44,250
They would bomb

3045
01:02:44,250 --> 01:02:45,916
you and not necessarily

3046
01:02:45,916 --> 01:02:47,750
care about the consequences

3047
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:48,541
to themselves.

3048
01:02:49,625 --> 01:02:50,541
So game theory is

3049
01:02:50,541 --> 01:02:51,666
based on the idea that the

3050
01:02:51,666 --> 01:02:53,250
that the act is irrational,

3051
01:02:53,250 --> 01:02:54,041
that they've got to try

3052
01:02:54,041 --> 01:02:54,833
to optimize

3053
01:02:54,833 --> 01:02:56,500
their own outcomes.

3054
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:57,833
And so therefore

3055
01:02:57,833 --> 01:02:59,083
with knowledge of that

3056
01:02:59,083 --> 01:02:59,958
and the system

3057
01:02:59,958 --> 01:03:02,958
you, you it's, it's

3058
01:03:03,791 --> 01:03:04,958
you want to design things

3059
01:03:04,958 --> 01:03:06,750
in such a ways that,

3060
01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:07,708
it affects you

3061
01:03:07,708 --> 01:03:08,333
as an individual,

3062
01:03:08,333 --> 01:03:09,083
as your behavior,

3063
01:03:09,083 --> 01:03:09,708
as to how you're going

3064
01:03:09,708 --> 01:03:11,958
to behave in the system.

3065
01:03:11,958 --> 01:03:12,833
Because you're also going

3066
01:03:12,833 --> 01:03:13,500
to have to think of what

3067
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:15,416
the other guy's going to do.

3068
01:03:15,416 --> 01:03:16,416
But it also affects

3069
01:03:16,416 --> 01:03:18,833
like how you design systems

3070
01:03:18,833 --> 01:03:19,708
in terms of

3071
01:03:19,708 --> 01:03:20,958
if you want them to work,

3072
01:03:20,958 --> 01:03:24,166
then you want the, the, the,

3073
01:03:25,125 --> 01:03:25,708
the, the,

3074
01:03:25,708 --> 01:03:26,458
the interests

3075
01:03:26,458 --> 01:03:27,541
of all of the individuals

3076
01:03:27,541 --> 01:03:28,375
in the system

3077
01:03:28,375 --> 01:03:29,666
to align

3078
01:03:29,666 --> 01:03:30,250
with what's

3079
01:03:30,250 --> 01:03:30,875
also best

3080
01:03:30,875 --> 01:03:32,000
for the system overall.

3081
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,208
So,

3082
01:03:33,208 --> 01:03:34,791
I refer back to the tragedy

3083
01:03:34,791 --> 01:03:35,833
of the Commons example,

3084
01:03:35,833 --> 01:03:36,500
like I said before,

3085
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:37,208
where the systems

3086
01:03:37,208 --> 01:03:38,583
didn't align very well.

3087
01:03:39,583 --> 01:03:40,041
And so

3088
01:03:40,041 --> 01:03:41,541
people would cheat

3089
01:03:41,541 --> 01:03:42,333
and so you'd have to

3090
01:03:42,333 --> 01:03:43,500
then have enforcement

3091
01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:44,083
to come in there.

3092
01:03:44,083 --> 01:03:45,166
And,

3093
01:03:45,166 --> 01:03:46,458
we can't have enforcement

3094
01:03:46,458 --> 01:03:47,000
with Bitcoin.

3095
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,250
There is no central authority

3096
01:03:48,250 --> 01:03:49,708
to enforce anything.

3097
01:03:49,708 --> 01:03:50,875
So all we've got left

3098
01:03:50,875 --> 01:03:51,416
is to trust

3099
01:03:51,416 --> 01:03:52,041
that everyone will

3100
01:03:52,041 --> 01:03:54,291
behave selfishly.

3101
01:03:54,291 --> 01:03:55,250
So you got to make sure

3102
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:56,333
that that selfish action

3103
01:03:56,333 --> 01:03:58,125
also happens to line up

3104
01:03:58,125 --> 01:03:59,125
with what's best

3105
01:03:59,125 --> 01:04:00,291
for the system overall.

3106
01:04:00,291 --> 01:04:01,708
And Bitcoin it does.

3107
01:04:01,708 --> 01:04:02,666
But in most other things

3108
01:04:02,666 --> 01:04:03,791
in the world,

3109
01:04:03,791 --> 01:04:04,583
the two

3110
01:04:04,583 --> 01:04:05,958
those things don't align.

3111
01:04:05,958 --> 01:04:06,875
And so you get people

3112
01:04:06,875 --> 01:04:09,000
that cheat. Yeah.

3113
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,375
And they benefit themselves.

3114
01:04:10,375 --> 01:04:10,708
But it

3115
01:04:10,708 --> 01:04:12,416
but to the detriment

3116
01:04:12,416 --> 01:04:13,958
of the greater good.

3117
01:04:13,958 --> 01:04:14,750
And this is why I

3118
01:04:14,750 --> 01:04:16,083
will never have more than 21

3119
01:04:16,083 --> 01:04:17,708
million coins.

3120
01:04:17,708 --> 01:04:19,416
Well technically

3121
01:04:19,416 --> 01:04:20,083
yeah that's right.

3122
01:04:20,083 --> 01:04:20,458
The game

3123
01:04:20,458 --> 01:04:21,708
theory says that like.

3124
01:04:21,708 --> 01:04:21,833
Yeah.

3125
01:04:21,833 --> 01:04:22,125
Again,

3126
01:04:22,125 --> 01:04:22,666
a good example

3127
01:04:22,666 --> 01:04:23,250
of the game theory.

3128
01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:24,125
Like why would any

3129
01:04:24,125 --> 01:04:24,875
of the participants

3130
01:04:24,875 --> 01:04:25,791
in the network agree

3131
01:04:25,791 --> 01:04:27,041
to increase it?

3132
01:04:27,041 --> 01:04:28,333
Yeah, because everyone.

3133
01:04:28,333 --> 01:04:30,000
Could do it. But yeah.

3134
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:30,250
Yeah.

3135
01:04:30,250 --> 01:04:31,083
But like yeah,

3136
01:04:31,083 --> 01:04:32,208
why would I want to like

3137
01:04:32,208 --> 01:04:33,416
why would I want to debase

3138
01:04:33,416 --> 01:04:35,000
the money that I hold.

3139
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,291
I've got fiat for that.

3140
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:39,291
And take something like

3141
01:04:39,291 --> 01:04:40,291
Ethereum though

3142
01:04:40,291 --> 01:04:41,000
with that proof

3143
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:41,583
or I don't know

3144
01:04:41,583 --> 01:04:42,541
pick on Ethereum anything

3145
01:04:42,541 --> 01:04:43,083
with like a proof

3146
01:04:43,083 --> 01:04:43,958
of stake mechanism.

3147
01:04:43,958 --> 01:04:45,333
The game theory doesn't align.

3148
01:04:45,333 --> 01:04:47,666
This is what happens.

3149
01:04:47,666 --> 01:04:48,500
All of the people

3150
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:50,041
that have got

3151
01:04:50,041 --> 01:04:51,208
the have

3152
01:04:51,208 --> 01:04:51,791
all of the people

3153
01:04:51,791 --> 01:04:53,250
who actually have the result.

3154
01:04:53,250 --> 01:04:53,708
In this case,

3155
01:04:53,708 --> 01:04:56,708
the token can decide that,

3156
01:04:57,708 --> 01:04:58,000
well,

3157
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,000
what if we just make it

3158
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,750
that everyone who has

3159
01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:02,375
more than this

3160
01:05:02,375 --> 01:05:04,583
number of tokens gets extra?

3161
01:05:04,583 --> 01:05:05,625
They could do that, right?

3162
01:05:05,625 --> 01:05:07,041
They could do it. They could.

3163
01:05:07,041 --> 01:05:07,500
If you had a

3164
01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:08,666
controlling supply,

3165
01:05:08,666 --> 01:05:09,625
you could all get together

3166
01:05:09,625 --> 01:05:10,625
and just make a rule

3167
01:05:10,625 --> 01:05:11,166
that benefits

3168
01:05:11,166 --> 01:05:14,166
only those people that have,

3169
01:05:14,541 --> 01:05:17,541
the controlling supply.

3170
01:05:18,416 --> 01:05:19,583
Whereas with Bitcoin

3171
01:05:19,583 --> 01:05:20,000
there is

3172
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,041
no it doesn't allow

3173
01:05:22,041 --> 01:05:23,000
any kind of tyranny

3174
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:23,875
of the majority.

3175
01:05:24,916 --> 01:05:26,500
So you're, it's

3176
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:27,083
it's like a

3177
01:05:27,083 --> 01:05:27,958
kind of like a system

3178
01:05:27,958 --> 01:05:28,250
that it's

3179
01:05:28,250 --> 01:05:29,541
a constitutional republic.

3180
01:05:29,541 --> 01:05:30,458
There's a constitution

3181
01:05:30,458 --> 01:05:33,458
of 21 million and it's

3182
01:05:34,416 --> 01:05:34,958
those.

3183
01:05:34,958 --> 01:05:35,500
And if you've

3184
01:05:35,500 --> 01:05:36,583
and even if you've got

3185
01:05:36,583 --> 01:05:37,708
a very small

3186
01:05:37,708 --> 01:05:40,500
part of the supply with,

3187
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:41,791
you can't get trampled on

3188
01:05:41,791 --> 01:05:42,291
by the people

3189
01:05:42,291 --> 01:05:43,166
that have the majority

3190
01:05:43,166 --> 01:05:46,166
of the money,

3191
01:05:46,250 --> 01:05:47,458
through any, any,

3192
01:05:47,458 --> 01:05:48,208
anything that might

3193
01:05:48,208 --> 01:05:48,875
just benefit

3194
01:05:48,875 --> 01:05:49,625
those people

3195
01:05:49,625 --> 01:05:50,875
to the detriment of the poorer

3196
01:05:50,875 --> 01:05:52,500
people in the system.

3197
01:05:52,500 --> 01:05:53,333
Yeah.

3198
01:05:53,333 --> 01:05:54,333
Proof of stake systems

3199
01:05:54,333 --> 01:05:55,666
don't have that. You.

3200
01:05:55,666 --> 01:05:56,791
Because it's like the whole

3201
01:05:56,791 --> 01:05:57,625
the whole way.

3202
01:05:57,625 --> 01:05:58,250
Those things are

3203
01:05:58,250 --> 01:05:59,875
literally voted on by.

3204
01:05:59,875 --> 01:06:00,583
By how much

3205
01:06:00,583 --> 01:06:03,583
of that thing that you have?

3206
01:06:04,375 --> 01:06:06,000
So those systems don't

3207
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,791
align very well for everybody.

3208
01:06:08,791 --> 01:06:09,625
That's not a system

3209
01:06:09,625 --> 01:06:10,500
that if you were coming

3210
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:11,541
in, knew

3211
01:06:11,541 --> 01:06:12,333
that you should feel

3212
01:06:12,333 --> 01:06:13,125
very comfortable

3213
01:06:13,125 --> 01:06:13,916
about

3214
01:06:13,916 --> 01:06:15,000
getting on board with you

3215
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,875
don't think that there's no

3216
01:06:16,875 --> 01:06:17,250
you are

3217
01:06:17,250 --> 01:06:17,875
only got you've

3218
01:06:17,875 --> 01:06:18,833
just got to trust

3219
01:06:18,833 --> 01:06:19,875
that the people

3220
01:06:19,875 --> 01:06:21,000
that own the majority.

3221
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:21,416
But again,

3222
01:06:21,416 --> 01:06:22,916
they do the right thing.

3223
01:06:22,916 --> 01:06:25,041
Yeah, but that's not aligning

3224
01:06:25,041 --> 01:06:26,041
with their incentive

3225
01:06:26,041 --> 01:06:28,041
to do the wrong thing. Yeah.

3226
01:06:30,125 --> 01:06:30,958
So I hope by at least

3227
01:06:30,958 --> 01:06:32,166
by example it might,

3228
01:06:32,166 --> 01:06:32,583
might, might,

3229
01:06:32,583 --> 01:06:34,750
but it's not an easy subject.

3230
01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:35,791
Yeah.

3231
01:06:35,791 --> 01:06:38,000
But it is a very important one

3232
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,083
to at least have a basic

3233
01:06:39,083 --> 01:06:40,208
understanding of

3234
01:06:40,208 --> 01:06:41,000
to see why

3235
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,833
Bitcoin differs and works,

3236
01:06:43,833 --> 01:06:45,250
versus,

3237
01:06:45,250 --> 01:06:46,750
many other things that,

3238
01:06:46,750 --> 01:06:47,250
that, that

3239
01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:48,750
try to change the game

3240
01:06:48,750 --> 01:06:50,500
theoretic model around.

3241
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:51,208
Yeah, yeah.

3242
01:06:51,208 --> 01:06:51,833
The incentives

3243
01:06:51,833 --> 01:06:53,250
in different places.

3244
01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:54,416
Yeah. Nice. Very interesting.

3245
01:06:54,416 --> 01:06:55,500
I wish I learned about it

3246
01:06:55,500 --> 01:06:56,708
when I worked in like

3247
01:06:56,708 --> 01:06:58,916
did service design.

3248
01:06:58,916 --> 01:06:59,708
I always thought

3249
01:06:59,708 --> 01:07:01,041
incentives were important,

3250
01:07:01,041 --> 01:07:01,916
but I feel like,

3251
01:07:01,916 --> 01:07:02,958
could I have gone a little

3252
01:07:02,958 --> 01:07:05,125
bit deeper?

3253
01:07:05,125 --> 01:07:05,750
But anyway,

3254
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:07,916
I want to pivot a little bit

3255
01:07:07,916 --> 01:07:09,791
and

3256
01:07:09,791 --> 01:07:11,208
I was thinking I wanted to ask

3257
01:07:11,208 --> 01:07:13,333
if you personally know

3258
01:07:13,333 --> 01:07:14,500
of any Bitcoin

3259
01:07:14,500 --> 01:07:15,208
I that's also a

3260
01:07:15,208 --> 01:07:16,500
central banker.

3261
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:16,791
I know

3262
01:07:16,791 --> 01:07:17,291
that's a very

3263
01:07:17,291 --> 01:07:18,375
specific question,

3264
01:07:18,375 --> 01:07:19,500
but I'm asking

3265
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:20,375
because I feel like there's

3266
01:07:20,375 --> 01:07:22,250
so many people in Australia

3267
01:07:22,250 --> 01:07:24,125
as well as globally

3268
01:07:24,125 --> 01:07:25,625
that work in banking.

3269
01:07:25,625 --> 01:07:26,125
They work in

3270
01:07:26,125 --> 01:07:27,708
traditional finance

3271
01:07:27,708 --> 01:07:28,333
and they're full

3272
01:07:28,333 --> 01:07:29,833
blown Bitcoiners.

3273
01:07:29,833 --> 01:07:31,416
I haven't come across one yet.

3274
01:07:31,416 --> 01:07:32,958
That's a central banker.

3275
01:07:34,416 --> 01:07:36,416
I don't know that I that's,

3276
01:07:36,416 --> 01:07:37,250
I know,

3277
01:07:37,250 --> 01:07:37,500
I mean,

3278
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:38,750
I know of central bankers,

3279
01:07:38,750 --> 01:07:39,333
but I mean,

3280
01:07:39,333 --> 01:07:40,375
how many central bankers

3281
01:07:40,375 --> 01:07:41,333
can most people name?

3282
01:07:41,333 --> 01:07:42,583
I'm not sure.

3283
01:07:42,583 --> 01:07:43,500
And it's very kind.

3284
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:44,625
Of like

3285
01:07:44,625 --> 01:07:45,291
the question

3286
01:07:45,291 --> 01:07:45,583
doesn't

3287
01:07:45,583 --> 01:07:46,375
exactly pop up

3288
01:07:46,375 --> 01:07:48,750
with the pub trivia.

3289
01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:50,583
You know, it's

3290
01:07:50,583 --> 01:07:51,541
nine, nine

3291
01:07:51,541 --> 01:07:52,708
five central bankers.

3292
01:07:52,708 --> 01:07:55,708
I mean, like, yeah, I,

3293
01:07:55,708 --> 01:07:56,958
it's the sort of thing,

3294
01:07:56,958 --> 01:07:57,458
I think that

3295
01:07:57,458 --> 01:07:58,500
if they did own it,

3296
01:07:58,500 --> 01:07:59,666
they probably wouldn't

3297
01:07:59,666 --> 01:08:00,250
want to be too

3298
01:08:00,250 --> 01:08:02,208
public about it.

3299
01:08:02,208 --> 01:08:02,666
Do you know what?

3300
01:08:02,666 --> 01:08:03,500
I find that

3301
01:08:03,500 --> 01:08:04,708
with a lot of people.

3302
01:08:04,708 --> 01:08:05,541
So when I came

3303
01:08:05,541 --> 01:08:06,333
out of the closet

3304
01:08:06,333 --> 01:08:07,625
on LinkedIn last year

3305
01:08:07,625 --> 01:08:08,125
and started

3306
01:08:08,125 --> 01:08:09,875
talking about Bitcoin,

3307
01:08:09,875 --> 01:08:11,250
I've had colleagues,

3308
01:08:11,250 --> 01:08:12,208
like ex colleagues

3309
01:08:12,208 --> 01:08:14,041
that I've worked in the past

3310
01:08:14,041 --> 01:08:15,291
sheepishly come up to me,

3311
01:08:15,291 --> 01:08:15,916
said, by the way,

3312
01:08:15,916 --> 01:08:17,208
I'm really not Bitcoin

3313
01:08:17,208 --> 01:08:19,250
or I really like Bitcoin.

3314
01:08:19,250 --> 01:08:20,541
I've been in it for years

3315
01:08:20,541 --> 01:08:21,250
and they just keep it

3316
01:08:21,250 --> 01:08:21,833
very quiet.

3317
01:08:21,833 --> 01:08:22,333
They don't like

3318
01:08:22,333 --> 01:08:23,125
any of my posts

3319
01:08:23,125 --> 01:08:23,541
because they don't

3320
01:08:23,541 --> 01:08:24,500
want to be associated.

3321
01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:24,875
It's like their

3322
01:08:24,875 --> 01:08:25,916
dirty little secret.

3323
01:08:26,875 --> 01:08:27,541
I think that's going

3324
01:08:27,541 --> 01:08:29,458
to change soon.

3325
01:08:29,458 --> 01:08:30,458
You know, even Jerome

3326
01:08:30,458 --> 01:08:31,875
Powell said that he's

3327
01:08:31,875 --> 01:08:34,583
becoming a mainstream thing.

3328
01:08:34,583 --> 01:08:35,333
So.

3329
01:08:35,333 --> 01:08:36,208
But I was curious

3330
01:08:36,208 --> 01:08:37,000
to ask that question.

3331
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:38,625
I'll tell you why

3332
01:08:38,625 --> 01:08:39,083
is because

3333
01:08:39,083 --> 01:08:40,083
I really want to know

3334
01:08:40,083 --> 01:08:41,125
about the mindset

3335
01:08:41,125 --> 01:08:44,125
of these people.

3336
01:08:44,125 --> 01:08:44,750
You know what I mean?

3337
01:08:44,750 --> 01:08:45,666
Like, I want

3338
01:08:45,666 --> 01:08:46,250
I want to know

3339
01:08:46,250 --> 01:08:48,125
their mindset of, of like,

3340
01:08:48,125 --> 01:08:48,708
I want to get

3341
01:08:48,708 --> 01:08:49,583
inside their brains

3342
01:08:49,583 --> 01:08:50,250
and understand

3343
01:08:50,250 --> 01:08:52,416
what they think of Bitcoin.

3344
01:08:52,416 --> 01:08:52,625
Like,

3345
01:08:52,625 --> 01:08:53,500
what do they think of it?

3346
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:54,666
I'm sure they've heard of it.

3347
01:08:54,666 --> 01:08:55,375
I'm sure they have

3348
01:08:55,375 --> 01:08:56,791
an opinion on it.

3349
01:08:56,791 --> 01:08:57,875
Do they still think

3350
01:08:57,875 --> 01:08:58,708
it's a scam?

3351
01:08:58,708 --> 01:09:01,500
Do they think it's disruptive

3352
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:02,541
or are they scared of it.

3353
01:09:02,541 --> 01:09:05,250
Like I want to know.

3354
01:09:05,250 --> 01:09:05,916
Yeah I don't know.

3355
01:09:05,916 --> 01:09:07,125
I mean I'm sure opinions

3356
01:09:07,125 --> 01:09:08,250
vary between them.

3357
01:09:09,416 --> 01:09:10,250
But you might

3358
01:09:10,250 --> 01:09:11,250
you will find that

3359
01:09:11,250 --> 01:09:11,958
if you've got

3360
01:09:11,958 --> 01:09:13,041
if you do get inside the head

3361
01:09:13,041 --> 01:09:13,791
that there's just there's

3362
01:09:13,791 --> 01:09:15,416
quite a wide spectrum

3363
01:09:15,416 --> 01:09:16,208
of views on it.

3364
01:09:16,208 --> 01:09:18,083
I think

3365
01:09:18,083 --> 01:09:19,291
they probably ask some people

3366
01:09:19,291 --> 01:09:19,916
very nicely

3367
01:09:19,916 --> 01:09:20,541
that think that it's

3368
01:09:20,541 --> 01:09:21,375
some sort of scam,

3369
01:09:21,375 --> 01:09:22,791
but that's an

3370
01:09:22,791 --> 01:09:24,208
incredibly obtuse position

3371
01:09:24,208 --> 01:09:25,250
to be taking after this

3372
01:09:25,250 --> 01:09:26,291
length of time.

3373
01:09:26,291 --> 01:09:27,250
You'd have to literally

3374
01:09:27,250 --> 01:09:28,416
have not even like

3375
01:09:28,416 --> 01:09:29,833
looked at the first one thing

3376
01:09:29,833 --> 01:09:31,000
to think that this,

3377
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:31,666
that after this

3378
01:09:31,666 --> 01:09:32,875
length of time,

3379
01:09:32,875 --> 01:09:33,541
all these years,

3380
01:09:33,541 --> 01:09:34,041
that you couldn't

3381
01:09:34,041 --> 01:09:36,750
get off, that that's the most

3382
01:09:36,750 --> 01:09:38,458
rudimentary kind of objection

3383
01:09:38,458 --> 01:09:39,291
that you could make.

3384
01:09:39,291 --> 01:09:40,250
I would think

3385
01:09:40,250 --> 01:09:41,166
even central bankers

3386
01:09:41,166 --> 01:09:41,625
would be a little bit

3387
01:09:41,625 --> 01:09:42,500
more sophisticated

3388
01:09:42,500 --> 01:09:43,291
in their objections

3389
01:09:43,291 --> 01:09:46,291
than that at this point.

3390
01:09:46,666 --> 01:09:49,291
I, I think the main objection

3391
01:09:49,291 --> 01:09:49,750
is, is that

3392
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:50,791
they would consider it.

3393
01:09:50,791 --> 01:09:52,166
They would probably say things

3394
01:09:52,166 --> 01:09:53,333
like if they did

3395
01:09:53,333 --> 01:09:53,666
things like,

3396
01:09:53,666 --> 01:09:53,916
well, it's

3397
01:09:53,916 --> 01:09:55,166
not backed by anything.

3398
01:09:55,166 --> 01:09:56,666
And they just sort of again,

3399
01:09:56,666 --> 01:09:57,916
these are just as tired

3400
01:09:57,916 --> 01:09:59,708
and these are just

3401
01:09:59,708 --> 01:10:00,583
bad arguments.

3402
01:10:00,583 --> 01:10:01,916
But they're

3403
01:10:01,916 --> 01:10:03,083
but they're a little bit more

3404
01:10:04,416 --> 01:10:05,791
they're a little bit,

3405
01:10:05,791 --> 01:10:06,875
take a little bit more nuance

3406
01:10:06,875 --> 01:10:07,333
to defeat

3407
01:10:07,333 --> 01:10:08,458
than just saying to scare.

3408
01:10:08,458 --> 01:10:08,791
Like, it's

3409
01:10:08,791 --> 01:10:09,375
very easy to say

3410
01:10:09,375 --> 01:10:09,833
this in the sky.

3411
01:10:09,833 --> 01:10:10,375
Okay, where's the

3412
01:10:10,375 --> 01:10:10,875
where's that,

3413
01:10:10,875 --> 01:10:11,666
where's the entity

3414
01:10:11,666 --> 01:10:12,333
that like this,

3415
01:10:12,333 --> 01:10:13,041
putting this out.

3416
01:10:13,041 --> 01:10:13,791
Like where's the

3417
01:10:13,791 --> 01:10:15,958
okay, who's the you know,

3418
01:10:15,958 --> 01:10:17,000
who's the thing behind it

3419
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:17,625
that's doing it?

3420
01:10:17,625 --> 01:10:18,333
It's a scam.

3421
01:10:18,333 --> 01:10:19,375
You know, like it

3422
01:10:19,375 --> 01:10:21,708
has that, you know,

3423
01:10:21,708 --> 01:10:22,583
I think at this point

3424
01:10:22,583 --> 01:10:25,208
it's more of like that.

3425
01:10:25,208 --> 01:10:25,958
A lot of what

3426
01:10:25,958 --> 01:10:27,000
blockchain was about

3427
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,000
was the attempt to kind of,

3428
01:10:31,166 --> 01:10:32,000
that's kind of actually

3429
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:32,833
where blockchain

3430
01:10:32,833 --> 01:10:34,083
actually really came in.

3431
01:10:34,083 --> 01:10:34,583
Like when,

3432
01:10:34,583 --> 01:10:35,458
when that came in,

3433
01:10:35,458 --> 01:10:36,083
there were

3434
01:10:36,083 --> 01:10:37,375
a lot of central bank

3435
01:10:37,375 --> 01:10:39,291
types and fiat money types

3436
01:10:39,291 --> 01:10:40,166
that really jumped

3437
01:10:40,166 --> 01:10:41,500
on that blockchain,

3438
01:10:41,500 --> 01:10:43,375
not Bitcoin bandwagon,

3439
01:10:43,375 --> 01:10:44,041
because that's how

3440
01:10:44,041 --> 01:10:45,208
it was originally presented.

3441
01:10:45,208 --> 01:10:46,166
They they would say

3442
01:10:46,166 --> 01:10:47,166
this was their kind of way

3443
01:10:47,166 --> 01:10:48,541
of dealing with it.

3444
01:10:48,541 --> 01:10:49,333
If you want to really

3445
01:10:49,333 --> 01:10:50,500
get in their heads and this is

3446
01:10:50,500 --> 01:10:52,041
this is makes perfect sense.

3447
01:10:52,041 --> 01:10:52,416
Yeah.

3448
01:10:52,416 --> 01:10:53,125
Because they want to keep.

3449
01:10:53,125 --> 01:10:54,166
That was actually their way

3450
01:10:54,166 --> 01:10:54,750
of dealing with it.

3451
01:10:54,750 --> 01:10:55,708
They would say that.

3452
01:10:55,708 --> 01:10:57,458
Oh well you know

3453
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:59,458
the technology underlying

3454
01:10:59,458 --> 01:11:00,916
Bitcoin is interesting.

3455
01:11:00,916 --> 01:11:02,208
We just don't think that

3456
01:11:02,208 --> 01:11:03,541
that currency is valid,

3457
01:11:03,541 --> 01:11:04,125
that we don't need

3458
01:11:04,125 --> 01:11:04,916
that currency.

3459
01:11:04,916 --> 01:11:05,500
And so that's

3460
01:11:05,500 --> 01:11:06,916
why you've got

3461
01:11:06,916 --> 01:11:08,916
the central banking types,

3462
01:11:08,916 --> 01:11:10,166
taking an interest in,

3463
01:11:11,125 --> 01:11:11,791
things that they

3464
01:11:11,791 --> 01:11:12,541
could somehow

3465
01:11:12,541 --> 01:11:13,166
they might be able

3466
01:11:13,166 --> 01:11:14,958
to leverage,

3467
01:11:14,958 --> 01:11:15,833
some of this

3468
01:11:15,833 --> 01:11:17,375
blockchain technology,

3469
01:11:17,375 --> 01:11:18,625
the use in central bank

3470
01:11:18,625 --> 01:11:20,416
digital currencies.

3471
01:11:20,416 --> 01:11:21,458
So if you think for a minute,

3472
01:11:21,458 --> 01:11:22,208
like a lot of people

3473
01:11:22,208 --> 01:11:22,625
tried this, oh,

3474
01:11:22,625 --> 01:11:23,625
we're all on the same side.

3475
01:11:23,625 --> 01:11:25,291
No we're not.

3476
01:11:25,291 --> 01:11:27,708
A lot of the blockchain crowd

3477
01:11:27,708 --> 01:11:29,208
is very much interested in

3478
01:11:29,208 --> 01:11:29,750
how they could

3479
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:31,583
apply blockchain.

3480
01:11:31,583 --> 01:11:32,291
But it isn't even

3481
01:11:32,291 --> 01:11:33,250
necessarily blockchain.

3482
01:11:33,250 --> 01:11:34,625
It's just fintech.

3483
01:11:34,625 --> 01:11:35,291
But they

3484
01:11:35,291 --> 01:11:36,208
they're in this sort

3485
01:11:36,208 --> 01:11:37,125
of blockchain communities.

3486
01:11:37,125 --> 01:11:38,750
How they can use it

3487
01:11:38,750 --> 01:11:40,166
to be the bedrock of

3488
01:11:40,166 --> 01:11:40,708
of government

3489
01:11:40,708 --> 01:11:42,250
mandated central bank

3490
01:11:42,250 --> 01:11:44,291
digital currencies.

3491
01:11:44,291 --> 01:11:46,000
That is so the

3492
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:46,583
so the so

3493
01:11:46,583 --> 01:11:47,375
the central bank

3494
01:11:47,375 --> 01:11:49,000
types are quite interested

3495
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:49,791
in potentially

3496
01:11:49,791 --> 01:11:51,416
interested in blockchain

3497
01:11:51,416 --> 01:11:52,083
and have been for

3498
01:11:52,083 --> 01:11:53,666
a very long time.

3499
01:11:53,666 --> 01:11:56,666
And and even like Ethereum

3500
01:11:56,833 --> 01:11:59,333
for all of its origins,

3501
01:11:59,333 --> 01:12:01,791
it for a long time has its,

3502
01:12:01,791 --> 01:12:03,625
its, its proponents

3503
01:12:03,625 --> 01:12:05,791
have been vying for it to be,

3504
01:12:05,791 --> 01:12:06,291
as I say,

3505
01:12:06,291 --> 01:12:07,791
the bedrock of government

3506
01:12:07,791 --> 01:12:09,250
mandated central bank

3507
01:12:09,250 --> 01:12:10,208
digital currencies.

3508
01:12:10,208 --> 01:12:11,333
They would love that.

3509
01:12:12,958 --> 01:12:14,000
Because it's just got it.

3510
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:15,625
It's

3511
01:12:15,625 --> 01:12:17,000
again, it's a, it's a,

3512
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:17,875
it's a centralized

3513
01:12:17,875 --> 01:12:20,208
enough thing for the, for the,

3514
01:12:20,208 --> 01:12:20,916
for them to be able to,

3515
01:12:20,916 --> 01:12:21,666
to try doing

3516
01:12:21,666 --> 01:12:22,583
something like that on it.

3517
01:12:22,583 --> 01:12:23,500
So these are

3518
01:12:23,500 --> 01:12:23,958
the things

3519
01:12:23,958 --> 01:12:26,625
could not be more antithetical

3520
01:12:26,625 --> 01:12:28,375
to what Bitcoin was

3521
01:12:28,375 --> 01:12:30,416
was created to avoid the need

3522
01:12:30,416 --> 01:12:31,291
for in the first place.

3523
01:12:31,291 --> 01:12:33,416
We don't need central banks.

3524
01:12:33,416 --> 01:12:35,291
Central banks are the problem

3525
01:12:35,291 --> 01:12:37,500
that we are solving for

3526
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:38,458
not here to be

3527
01:12:38,458 --> 01:12:39,750
something that like

3528
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:40,833
makes central

3529
01:12:40,833 --> 01:12:42,250
banking more effective

3530
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:43,916
or more or more,

3531
01:12:43,916 --> 01:12:45,375
at what it does.

3532
01:12:45,375 --> 01:12:47,000
I don't want central banking

3533
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,041
to become more effective.

3534
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:48,708
It's a it's

3535
01:12:48,708 --> 01:12:49,666
effective enough

3536
01:12:49,666 --> 01:12:50,791
in terms of what it can do

3537
01:12:50,791 --> 01:12:51,208
in terms

3538
01:12:51,208 --> 01:12:52,916
of censoring people,

3539
01:12:52,916 --> 01:12:55,000
in terms of locking down,

3540
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,333
controlling people,

3541
01:12:56,333 --> 01:12:56,958
doing all of

3542
01:12:56,958 --> 01:12:57,833
those things that,

3543
01:12:58,958 --> 01:12:59,625
that we saw

3544
01:12:59,625 --> 01:13:00,625
of actually try to do,

3545
01:13:00,625 --> 01:13:01,708
like we saw them

3546
01:13:01,708 --> 01:13:03,666
actually flex this power

3547
01:13:03,666 --> 01:13:04,791
throughout the,

3548
01:13:04,791 --> 01:13:06,333
throughout the Covid,

3549
01:13:06,333 --> 01:13:08,125
hysteria period.

3550
01:13:08,125 --> 01:13:09,416
They flex this on people.

3551
01:13:09,416 --> 01:13:11,166
They even after the,

3552
01:13:11,166 --> 01:13:13,916
January 5th,

3553
01:13:13,916 --> 01:13:15,500
business in the Capitol

3554
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:17,291
in, at the Capitol building

3555
01:13:17,291 --> 01:13:18,625
in Washington, DC.

3556
01:13:18,625 --> 01:13:19,166
They even tried

3557
01:13:19,166 --> 01:13:20,250
to, like, shut down

3558
01:13:20,250 --> 01:13:21,416
Donald Trump's

3559
01:13:21,416 --> 01:13:22,375
banking accounts

3560
01:13:22,375 --> 01:13:23,125
that literally tried

3561
01:13:23,125 --> 01:13:23,750
to get the guy,

3562
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:25,791
like to remove the guard

3563
01:13:25,791 --> 01:13:26,166
if they

3564
01:13:26,166 --> 01:13:27,625
take the guy's whole ability

3565
01:13:27,625 --> 01:13:29,666
away to operate in the,

3566
01:13:29,666 --> 01:13:30,666
in the banking system,

3567
01:13:30,666 --> 01:13:31,458
and they could try to

3568
01:13:31,458 --> 01:13:32,875
do something like that to him.

3569
01:13:32,875 --> 01:13:34,333
Imagine what they would do

3570
01:13:34,333 --> 01:13:35,208
to, to

3571
01:13:35,208 --> 01:13:36,541
just an ordinary citizen

3572
01:13:36,541 --> 01:13:37,250
or someone who didn't

3573
01:13:37,250 --> 01:13:37,833
toe the line,

3574
01:13:37,833 --> 01:13:38,875
who didn't agree

3575
01:13:38,875 --> 01:13:40,041
with the whatever

3576
01:13:40,041 --> 01:13:40,958
the latest prevailing

3577
01:13:40,958 --> 01:13:41,583
narrative was.

3578
01:13:41,583 --> 01:13:43,291
I wouldn't be surprised

3579
01:13:43,291 --> 01:13:45,708
if those attempts to remove

3580
01:13:45,708 --> 01:13:46,375
Donald Trump

3581
01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:47,750
from the banking system

3582
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:48,958
were potentially an orange

3583
01:13:48,958 --> 01:13:49,750
killing moment for

3584
01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:50,875
Donald Trump himself.

3585
01:13:52,083 --> 01:13:54,541
Oh, 100%, I think even,

3586
01:13:54,541 --> 01:13:56,333
I think even Eric,

3587
01:13:56,333 --> 01:13:56,958
said that

3588
01:13:56,958 --> 01:13:58,583
that he got debunked.

3589
01:13:58,583 --> 01:13:59,583
And that was

3590
01:13:59,583 --> 01:14:00,875
one of the main reasons

3591
01:14:00,875 --> 01:14:04,125
why he got into Bitcoin.

3592
01:14:04,708 --> 01:14:06,041
I do it on the.

3593
01:14:06,041 --> 01:14:08,208
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3594
01:14:08,208 --> 01:14:08,875
A lot of these things.

3595
01:14:08,875 --> 01:14:09,375
That's the point

3596
01:14:09,375 --> 01:14:09,833
I made before

3597
01:14:09,833 --> 01:14:10,291
all of the other.

3598
01:14:10,291 --> 01:14:10,916
Not at that thing

3599
01:14:10,916 --> 01:14:11,291
I said

3600
01:14:11,291 --> 01:14:12,041
all of these things

3601
01:14:12,041 --> 01:14:13,708
that that have happened on

3602
01:14:13,708 --> 01:14:14,833
crypto and are happening

3603
01:14:14,833 --> 01:14:17,000
in the financial world,

3604
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,000
these bad things,

3605
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:18,666
terrible things.

3606
01:14:18,666 --> 01:14:19,541
You can't do it

3607
01:14:19,541 --> 01:14:21,625
on a, on a Bitcoin standard.

3608
01:14:21,625 --> 01:14:21,833
Yeah.

3609
01:14:21,833 --> 01:14:23,083
Because those bad things

3610
01:14:23,083 --> 01:14:24,083
were the very problems

3611
01:14:24,083 --> 01:14:24,916
that, that Bitcoin

3612
01:14:24,916 --> 01:14:26,250
was solving for.

3613
01:14:26,250 --> 01:14:27,333
Yeah.

3614
01:14:27,333 --> 01:14:28,833
Important problems.

3615
01:14:28,833 --> 01:14:29,625
Yeah.

3616
01:14:29,625 --> 01:14:30,750
Do you think it's easier

3617
01:14:30,750 --> 01:14:34,125
to get crypto

3618
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:36,208
people to switch to bitcoin

3619
01:14:36,208 --> 01:14:38,708
or complete no coin is

3620
01:14:38,708 --> 01:14:39,291
who do you think

3621
01:14:39,291 --> 01:14:42,291
who is easier to grasp?

3622
01:14:42,791 --> 01:14:43,166
I see

3623
01:14:43,166 --> 01:14:44,166
I see a crypto people

3624
01:14:44,166 --> 01:14:46,041
because crypto people yeah.

3625
01:14:46,041 --> 01:14:47,250
And I know coin is of

3626
01:14:47,250 --> 01:14:48,833
like have taken a kind of

3627
01:14:48,833 --> 01:14:49,875
a no coin or is a

3628
01:14:49,875 --> 01:14:50,875
is a fairly extreme

3629
01:14:50,875 --> 01:14:52,625
position actually. Yeah.

3630
01:14:54,083 --> 01:14:54,291
There's

3631
01:14:54,291 --> 01:14:57,291
actually two extremes.

3632
01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:58,833
The there's the extreme.

3633
01:14:58,833 --> 01:15:00,750
No coin, the position

3634
01:15:00,750 --> 01:15:02,000
that's the

3635
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:02,541
those people

3636
01:15:02,541 --> 01:15:03,416
don't believe that there's

3637
01:15:03,416 --> 01:15:04,375
anything here at all.

3638
01:15:04,375 --> 01:15:05,166
They don't believe in

3639
01:15:05,166 --> 01:15:06,750
bitcoin crypto, blockchain.

3640
01:15:06,750 --> 01:15:07,375
None of it.

3641
01:15:07,375 --> 01:15:08,166
There's nothing here at all.

3642
01:15:08,166 --> 01:15:09,000
It's like to them

3643
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,041
it's like it's gold bars.

3644
01:15:11,041 --> 01:15:12,041
It's like

3645
01:15:12,041 --> 01:15:12,833
which they somehow

3646
01:15:12,833 --> 01:15:13,750
still most of them

3647
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:15,875
still think somehow backs

3648
01:15:15,875 --> 01:15:16,916
the fiat currency

3649
01:15:16,916 --> 01:15:18,500
that they love.

3650
01:15:18,500 --> 01:15:19,500
Yeah. But then there's that.

3651
01:15:19,500 --> 01:15:20,375
They're the no coins.

3652
01:15:20,375 --> 01:15:21,625
They just can't get themselves

3653
01:15:21,625 --> 01:15:22,458
around the idea

3654
01:15:22,458 --> 01:15:23,000
that there could be

3655
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:24,333
another unit of account.

3656
01:15:24,333 --> 01:15:24,833
They're going to be

3657
01:15:24,833 --> 01:15:25,708
permanently stuck

3658
01:15:25,708 --> 01:15:26,500
in that kind of dollar

3659
01:15:26,500 --> 01:15:29,041
fiat mindset. Yeah.

3660
01:15:29,041 --> 01:15:29,750
Then there's the

3661
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:30,625
other extreme,

3662
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,666
which I actually put

3663
01:15:31,666 --> 01:15:32,458
to be the blockchain,

3664
01:15:32,458 --> 01:15:33,208
crypto and people,

3665
01:15:33,208 --> 01:15:34,416
they think that this stuff

3666
01:15:34,416 --> 01:15:35,625
could do anything.

3667
01:15:35,625 --> 01:15:36,666
You know, not only is it,

3668
01:15:37,708 --> 01:15:38,875
it can polish your shoes and

3669
01:15:38,875 --> 01:15:40,791
wipe your ass, you know, like

3670
01:15:40,791 --> 01:15:42,000
they haven't run out of ways

3671
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:42,416
of thinking

3672
01:15:42,416 --> 01:15:43,291
about what it could do.

3673
01:15:43,291 --> 01:15:44,250
They're always sitting down,

3674
01:15:44,250 --> 01:15:45,125
trying to

3675
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:46,166
trying to find, try

3676
01:15:46,166 --> 01:15:48,750
to think of more,

3677
01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:50,250
trying to find more problems

3678
01:15:50,250 --> 01:15:51,583
for this, that this solution

3679
01:15:51,583 --> 01:15:52,500
that they've got to solve.

3680
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:53,041
I put them at

3681
01:15:53,041 --> 01:15:54,000
the other extreme.

3682
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:54,708
I've always said that

3683
01:15:54,708 --> 01:15:55,666
Bitcoin was

3684
01:15:55,666 --> 01:15:56,333
the sensible

3685
01:15:56,333 --> 01:15:58,041
moderate position.

3686
01:15:58,041 --> 01:15:58,583
It wasn't

3687
01:15:58,583 --> 01:16:00,541
the maximalist position.

3688
01:16:00,541 --> 01:16:03,208
Although we say Bitcoin Maxes,

3689
01:16:03,208 --> 01:16:04,416
the maximalist position

3690
01:16:04,416 --> 01:16:04,875
was to say

3691
01:16:04,875 --> 01:16:05,791
that somehow

3692
01:16:05,791 --> 01:16:07,916
this tech was like,

3693
01:16:07,916 --> 01:16:08,750
you could pull bits

3694
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:09,916
and pieces of this tech apart

3695
01:16:09,916 --> 01:16:12,208
and use it for anything.

3696
01:16:12,208 --> 01:16:13,416
We make the relatively

3697
01:16:13,416 --> 01:16:14,750
modest position,

3698
01:16:14,750 --> 01:16:16,166
the relatively modest proposal

3699
01:16:16,166 --> 01:16:17,333
that it could be used to

3700
01:16:17,333 --> 01:16:19,625
solve for money and make it,

3701
01:16:20,708 --> 01:16:21,500
essentially,

3702
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:22,500
essentially finish

3703
01:16:22,500 --> 01:16:23,458
the idea of what

3704
01:16:23,458 --> 01:16:25,208
money is like with many ways

3705
01:16:25,208 --> 01:16:25,791
of doing money

3706
01:16:25,791 --> 01:16:27,166
throughout history

3707
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:29,750
that have improved upon it,

3708
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:30,833
some of which is improved

3709
01:16:30,833 --> 01:16:33,458
on earlier versions.

3710
01:16:33,458 --> 01:16:34,916
Now in the 21st century,

3711
01:16:34,916 --> 01:16:36,625
what we need is we want,

3712
01:16:36,625 --> 01:16:37,166
we want,

3713
01:16:37,166 --> 01:16:38,416
we need it to be electronic

3714
01:16:38,416 --> 01:16:39,500
so that it can be passed down

3715
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:40,500
a wire.

3716
01:16:40,500 --> 01:16:41,500
But anything electronic

3717
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:43,041
can be infinitely replicated.

3718
01:16:43,041 --> 01:16:43,375
It can't.

3719
01:16:43,375 --> 01:16:44,458
It's not

3720
01:16:44,458 --> 01:16:45,291
can't be

3721
01:16:45,291 --> 01:16:47,125
guaranteed to be scarce.

3722
01:16:47,125 --> 01:16:48,416
So people then say,

3723
01:16:48,416 --> 01:16:49,291
oh, we'll have to go back

3724
01:16:49,291 --> 01:16:50,583
to a gold standard,

3725
01:16:50,583 --> 01:16:51,875
but a gold standard

3726
01:16:51,875 --> 01:16:53,333
because it's physical

3727
01:16:53,333 --> 01:16:54,833
and cumbersome,

3728
01:16:54,833 --> 01:16:55,291
is what

3729
01:16:55,291 --> 01:16:56,041
led to a Fiat

3730
01:16:56,041 --> 01:16:58,541
standard in the first place.

3731
01:16:58,541 --> 01:16:59,125
If you go back

3732
01:16:59,125 --> 01:16:59,875
to a gold standard,

3733
01:16:59,875 --> 01:17:00,208
you're just going

3734
01:17:00,208 --> 01:17:00,583
to get enough.

3735
01:17:00,583 --> 01:17:01,416
I could say that again,

3736
01:17:01,416 --> 01:17:02,250
because you need to have

3737
01:17:02,250 --> 01:17:02,875
because you can't

3738
01:17:02,875 --> 01:17:04,083
send gold down a wire,

3739
01:17:04,083 --> 01:17:05,083
so you have to represent it

3740
01:17:05,083 --> 01:17:05,375
with a

3741
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:06,333
with a ledger entry

3742
01:17:06,333 --> 01:17:07,416
in a database.

3743
01:17:07,416 --> 01:17:08,416
Then you start trading

3744
01:17:08,416 --> 01:17:09,708
ledger entries

3745
01:17:09,708 --> 01:17:11,666
and ledger entries.

3746
01:17:11,666 --> 01:17:12,416
You can make up

3747
01:17:12,416 --> 01:17:13,375
whatever number you want

3748
01:17:13,375 --> 01:17:14,958
and put it in the ledger.

3749
01:17:14,958 --> 01:17:16,125
Bitcoin combines

3750
01:17:16,125 --> 01:17:17,125
the scarcity of gold

3751
01:17:17,125 --> 01:17:18,208
with the electronic nature

3752
01:17:18,208 --> 01:17:19,458
of fiat money

3753
01:17:19,458 --> 01:17:20,291
and finally

3754
01:17:20,291 --> 01:17:21,416
marrying the two together.

3755
01:17:21,416 --> 01:17:22,333
And now money is all

3756
01:17:22,333 --> 01:17:23,166
it needs to be.

3757
01:17:23,166 --> 01:17:24,666
It doesn't need to be.

3758
01:17:24,666 --> 01:17:25,250
Don't need any

3759
01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:26,083
further improvement.

3760
01:17:26,083 --> 01:17:27,625
It's like the ballpoint pen.

3761
01:17:27,625 --> 01:17:28,500
How many different types

3762
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:29,541
of writing implement

3763
01:17:29,541 --> 01:17:31,041
did we go through?

3764
01:17:31,041 --> 01:17:32,416
Ballpoint pen was invented

3765
01:17:32,416 --> 01:17:33,750
in like the 1950s.

3766
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,583
Still

3767
01:17:36,583 --> 01:17:37,375
still here.

3768
01:17:37,375 --> 01:17:38,041
You know,

3769
01:17:38,041 --> 01:17:39,291
that's the 1950s

3770
01:17:39,291 --> 01:17:40,958
that was done.

3771
01:17:40,958 --> 01:17:41,375
Yeah.

3772
01:17:41,375 --> 01:17:41,916
And there's lots

3773
01:17:41,916 --> 01:17:43,750
of other examples.

3774
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:44,750
And so,

3775
01:17:44,750 --> 01:17:46,416
and so to again, going back

3776
01:17:46,416 --> 01:17:47,291
to looking at Bitcoin

3777
01:17:47,291 --> 01:17:48,291
as the monetary phenomenon

3778
01:17:48,291 --> 01:17:49,000
rather than the tech

3779
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,541
phenomenon,

3780
01:17:50,541 --> 01:17:51,416
it's done apart

3781
01:17:51,416 --> 01:17:52,000
from tinkering

3782
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:52,708
around the edges,

3783
01:17:52,708 --> 01:17:53,250
it's done

3784
01:17:53,250 --> 01:17:53,625
there doesn't

3785
01:17:53,625 --> 01:17:55,041
need to be another

3786
01:17:55,041 --> 01:17:56,916
another totally new system.

3787
01:17:56,916 --> 01:17:58,458
They'll just be some minor

3788
01:17:58,458 --> 01:18:01,083
refinements made to bitcoin.

3789
01:18:01,083 --> 01:18:03,375
But the Bitcoin is eager.

3790
01:18:03,375 --> 01:18:04,875
So hold that's that's it.

3791
01:18:04,875 --> 01:18:07,875
Now that's the money.

3792
01:18:08,875 --> 01:18:09,958
I have another question.

3793
01:18:09,958 --> 01:18:10,500
Are you

3794
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:11,541
because you've been in Bitcoin

3795
01:18:11,541 --> 01:18:13,416
for a while

3796
01:18:13,416 --> 01:18:15,750
and you've learned so much

3797
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:16,500
along the years.

3798
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:17,458
But do you find that

3799
01:18:17,458 --> 01:18:18,750
you still learning a lot

3800
01:18:18,750 --> 01:18:19,583
about Bitcoin

3801
01:18:19,583 --> 01:18:22,458
even after many, many moons.

3802
01:18:22,458 --> 01:18:23,250
Oh yeah. Yeah.

3803
01:18:23,250 --> 01:18:24,375
Look there's always this

3804
01:18:24,375 --> 01:18:25,166
there's there's

3805
01:18:25,166 --> 01:18:26,791
there's so much to learn and

3806
01:18:26,791 --> 01:18:28,333
and there's so much

3807
01:18:28,333 --> 01:18:29,333
I still need to learn.

3808
01:18:29,333 --> 01:18:30,166
I mean, I,

3809
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:32,958
certainly on the more

3810
01:18:32,958 --> 01:18:33,875
technical levels.

3811
01:18:33,875 --> 01:18:34,208
Yeah.

3812
01:18:34,208 --> 01:18:34,791
I mean,

3813
01:18:34,791 --> 01:18:35,958
you know, that that's that,

3814
01:18:35,958 --> 01:18:38,000
this, this and and this.

3815
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,291
I don't think,

3816
01:18:40,291 --> 01:18:40,958
one person

3817
01:18:40,958 --> 01:18:42,000
can even really cover it

3818
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,166
now, like there are now

3819
01:18:43,166 --> 01:18:44,541
has to be specialization

3820
01:18:44,541 --> 01:18:45,833
within Bitcoin,

3821
01:18:45,833 --> 01:18:46,583
let alone

3822
01:18:46,583 --> 01:18:47,541
Bitcoin is

3823
01:18:47,541 --> 01:18:47,958
people told

3824
01:18:47,958 --> 01:18:48,708
that Bitcoin was

3825
01:18:48,708 --> 01:18:51,708
a specialty in itself in

3826
01:18:52,583 --> 01:18:53,541
a wider

3827
01:18:53,541 --> 01:18:54,666
range of different things.

3828
01:18:54,666 --> 01:18:55,583
But but now

3829
01:18:55,583 --> 01:18:56,125
you have to

3830
01:18:56,125 --> 01:18:57,416
have specializations

3831
01:18:57,416 --> 01:18:59,416
within Bitcoin.

3832
01:18:59,416 --> 01:19:02,416
And in order to be sort of,

3833
01:19:03,375 --> 01:19:04,708
to sort of get any kind of

3834
01:19:04,708 --> 01:19:05,500
if you were going to try

3835
01:19:05,500 --> 01:19:06,041
to have any kind

3836
01:19:06,041 --> 01:19:08,458
of career in Bitcoin or,

3837
01:19:08,458 --> 01:19:10,291
if you really have to have

3838
01:19:10,291 --> 01:19:12,291
a niche in Bitcoin

3839
01:19:12,291 --> 01:19:12,916
and be good

3840
01:19:12,916 --> 01:19:13,875
at just that niche,

3841
01:19:13,875 --> 01:19:14,458
if you could be good

3842
01:19:14,458 --> 01:19:15,791
at just that one thing,

3843
01:19:15,791 --> 01:19:16,791
that that one niche

3844
01:19:18,083 --> 01:19:21,083
you can do well in Bitcoin,

3845
01:19:21,083 --> 01:19:21,833
that has been leading

3846
01:19:21,833 --> 01:19:22,333
to that like,

3847
01:19:22,333 --> 01:19:23,875
yeah, this, this is still

3848
01:19:23,875 --> 01:19:24,958
and that will never end

3849
01:19:24,958 --> 01:19:25,791
like for everybody.

3850
01:19:25,791 --> 01:19:27,750
It's like that Dunning-Kruger

3851
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:28,375
like what is it

3852
01:19:28,375 --> 01:19:30,291
the Dunning-Kruger. Yeah.

3853
01:19:30,291 --> 01:19:30,750
You know like

3854
01:19:30,750 --> 01:19:31,500
you get to go up,

3855
01:19:31,500 --> 01:19:31,916
you're going to have

3856
01:19:31,916 --> 01:19:34,000
that mountainous mount stupid.

3857
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:35,333
And then as you come down

3858
01:19:35,333 --> 01:19:36,833
on the other side.

3859
01:19:36,833 --> 01:19:38,458
I'm at the bottom.

3860
01:19:38,458 --> 01:19:40,166
I learned so much last year

3861
01:19:40,166 --> 01:19:40,875
and in the beginning

3862
01:19:40,875 --> 01:19:41,458
of this year

3863
01:19:41,458 --> 01:19:42,666
and I'm like, well,

3864
01:19:42,666 --> 01:19:44,000
I just don't know anything.

3865
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:45,250
There is so much to learn.

3866
01:19:45,250 --> 01:19:45,875
Eat delicious.

3867
01:19:45,875 --> 01:19:46,166
Yeah, I'm

3868
01:19:46,166 --> 01:19:47,000
not really like that.

3869
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:47,416
You've come

3870
01:19:47,416 --> 01:19:48,208
to that realization.

3871
01:19:48,208 --> 01:19:49,500
That means you actually do

3872
01:19:49,500 --> 01:19:50,958
understand, like

3873
01:19:50,958 --> 01:19:52,250
at least the extent of the

3874
01:19:52,250 --> 01:19:53,458
of the information out there.

3875
01:19:53,458 --> 01:19:54,500
The most ignorant position

3876
01:19:54,500 --> 01:19:55,166
is actually thinking

3877
01:19:55,166 --> 01:19:56,000
that like, yeah,

3878
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:56,750
this is all there is

3879
01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:57,666
and I know all that now.

3880
01:19:57,666 --> 01:19:59,500
So that's it. I know,

3881
01:20:01,083 --> 01:20:01,916
that's where,

3882
01:20:01,916 --> 01:20:02,250
you know, a

3883
01:20:02,250 --> 01:20:03,208
lot of these people like you,

3884
01:20:03,208 --> 01:20:04,000
Senator, rednecks

3885
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:04,791
and things like that,

3886
01:20:04,791 --> 01:20:06,041
go back to him.

3887
01:20:06,041 --> 01:20:07,166
That guy has.

3888
01:20:07,166 --> 01:20:08,875
Made today.

3889
01:20:08,875 --> 01:20:10,291
Stupid on any topic

3890
01:20:10,291 --> 01:20:12,375
his entire life.

3891
01:20:12,375 --> 01:20:13,375
I messaged him

3892
01:20:13,375 --> 01:20:16,375
earlier on today on Instagram.

3893
01:20:16,791 --> 01:20:17,791
I mean, I posted,

3894
01:20:17,791 --> 01:20:18,833
I commented on

3895
01:20:18,833 --> 01:20:19,625
because he posted

3896
01:20:19,625 --> 01:20:20,250
another thing.

3897
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:21,208
He was ripping

3898
01:20:21,208 --> 01:20:23,000
at banks and talking

3899
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,166
about how the ownership behind

3900
01:20:25,166 --> 01:20:25,833
the big four

3901
01:20:25,833 --> 01:20:27,000
is all inclusive

3902
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:28,458
and and I was like,

3903
01:20:28,458 --> 01:20:29,791
commented on that post.

3904
01:20:29,791 --> 01:20:30,750
I was like,

3905
01:20:30,750 --> 01:20:31,791
I really think you need

3906
01:20:31,791 --> 01:20:33,208
to give Bitcoin a chance.

3907
01:20:33,208 --> 01:20:34,375
I'm like trying to

3908
01:20:34,375 --> 01:20:35,375
let him know

3909
01:20:35,375 --> 01:20:36,291
every single judge.

3910
01:20:36,291 --> 01:20:37,541
He thinks he already knows.

3911
01:20:37,541 --> 01:20:39,083
I know I've studied bitcoin.

3912
01:20:39,083 --> 01:20:39,375
I'm a

3913
01:20:39,375 --> 01:20:40,916
I have this degree

3914
01:20:40,916 --> 01:20:42,083
this and I went to.

3915
01:20:42,083 --> 01:20:42,958
So I already know

3916
01:20:42,958 --> 01:20:44,250
all there is about that.

3917
01:20:44,250 --> 01:20:44,958
That's the peak

3918
01:20:44,958 --> 01:20:45,583
of Mount Street.

3919
01:20:45,583 --> 01:20:46,375
He does not

3920
01:20:46,375 --> 01:20:46,875
He doesn't need

3921
01:20:46,875 --> 01:20:47,666
to look at Bitcoin

3922
01:20:47,666 --> 01:20:48,291
because he's already

3923
01:20:48,291 --> 01:20:48,750
looked at it.

3924
01:20:48,750 --> 01:20:49,416
He knows everything.

3925
01:20:49,416 --> 01:20:50,583
He knows the whole thing.

3926
01:20:50,583 --> 01:20:51,375
There's nothing.

3927
01:20:51,375 --> 01:20:51,916
There's nothing

3928
01:20:51,916 --> 01:20:52,625
you can tell it.

3929
01:20:53,916 --> 01:20:54,500
He can

3930
01:20:54,500 --> 01:20:56,416
see the Financial Times.

3931
01:20:56,416 --> 01:20:57,541
Sorry.

3932
01:20:57,541 --> 01:20:58,250
He read about

3933
01:20:58,250 --> 01:20:59,666
in the Financial Times

3934
01:20:59,666 --> 01:21:00,250
whatever.

3935
01:21:00,250 --> 01:21:01,791
Yeah I mean he knows

3936
01:21:01,791 --> 01:21:02,666
he knows everything.

3937
01:21:02,666 --> 01:21:03,541
That's nothing more,

3938
01:21:03,541 --> 01:21:04,250
nothing more.

3939
01:21:04,250 --> 01:21:05,500
You can tell him.

3940
01:21:05,500 --> 01:21:07,458
And is my favorite week.

3941
01:21:07,458 --> 01:21:08,000
Yeah. Sorry.

3942
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:09,000
That was my favorite week

3943
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,208
in Australia with like,

3944
01:21:11,208 --> 01:21:13,791
it's like I did this

3945
01:21:13,791 --> 01:21:14,708
weird global.

3946
01:21:14,708 --> 01:21:16,083
It was just circulated

3947
01:21:16,083 --> 01:21:16,625
in Denver

3948
01:21:16,625 --> 01:21:19,541
and so many different,

3949
01:21:19,541 --> 01:21:21,166
like, media companies

3950
01:21:21,166 --> 01:21:22,083
published it

3951
01:21:22,083 --> 01:21:22,791
and it was just

3952
01:21:22,791 --> 01:21:23,583
it was so funny.

3953
01:21:23,583 --> 01:21:24,000
And Pete

3954
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:25,791
Rizzo as well retweeted it.

3955
01:21:25,791 --> 01:21:26,458
It was just

3956
01:21:26,458 --> 01:21:27,625
it was the best week

3957
01:21:27,625 --> 01:21:30,500
in Bitcoin Australia I am

3958
01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:31,875
I should take some screenshots

3959
01:21:31,875 --> 01:21:33,208
before it's all taken down.

3960
01:21:33,208 --> 01:21:34,500
So.

3961
01:21:34,500 --> 01:21:35,916
Oh yeah. Yeah I guess so.

3962
01:21:35,916 --> 01:21:37,291
I suppose it's mostly yeah.

3963
01:21:37,291 --> 01:21:38,458
Let's people delete the tweets

3964
01:21:38,458 --> 01:21:39,500
but I won't be.

3965
01:21:39,500 --> 01:21:40,291
I'll leave mine up

3966
01:21:41,750 --> 01:21:43,875
because I think it's

3967
01:21:43,875 --> 01:21:45,583
I wasn't that upset

3968
01:21:45,583 --> 01:21:46,333
to have someone like

3969
01:21:46,333 --> 01:21:47,500
that though

3970
01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:48,291
necessarily not

3971
01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:49,083
be on our side,

3972
01:21:49,083 --> 01:21:50,333
because

3973
01:21:50,333 --> 01:21:51,875
if you had heard that guy

3974
01:21:51,875 --> 01:21:54,875
ever speak on other things,

3975
01:21:55,791 --> 01:21:57,125
yeah.

3976
01:21:57,125 --> 01:21:58,166
It wouldn't

3977
01:21:58,166 --> 01:21:58,708
it wouldn't

3978
01:21:58,708 --> 01:21:59,958
bring us great credit

3979
01:21:59,958 --> 01:22:01,041
to be at a point and say,

3980
01:22:01,041 --> 01:22:02,458
oh, look, this guy agrees.

3981
01:22:02,458 --> 01:22:04,000
Yeah, but that guy's an idiot.

3982
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,291
Like, yeah, I want,

3983
01:22:06,291 --> 01:22:06,666
you know,

3984
01:22:06,666 --> 01:22:07,541
there needs to be like,

3985
01:22:07,541 --> 01:22:08,291
if you heard this guy

3986
01:22:08,291 --> 01:22:09,375
speak on other matters,

3987
01:22:09,375 --> 01:22:10,000
it's like

3988
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,000
there's a Senate inquiry.

3989
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:11,541
Like, look,

3990
01:22:11,541 --> 01:22:12,291
I might agree

3991
01:22:12,291 --> 01:22:13,583
with his political positions

3992
01:22:13,583 --> 01:22:14,750
on a few things,

3993
01:22:14,750 --> 01:22:15,708
but the arguments

3994
01:22:15,708 --> 01:22:16,500
he deployed in

3995
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:17,791
defense of that position

3996
01:22:17,791 --> 01:22:20,541
was so laughably ignorant

3997
01:22:20,541 --> 01:22:21,750
that they actually argued

3998
01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:23,250
against the position

3999
01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:24,125
that he was taking

4000
01:22:24,125 --> 01:22:24,625
because they were

4001
01:22:24,625 --> 01:22:26,833
just so easily shot down,

4002
01:22:28,541 --> 01:22:31,541
by opponents of that position.

4003
01:22:31,708 --> 01:22:33,041
So you don't want someone

4004
01:22:33,041 --> 01:22:33,583
like that

4005
01:22:33,583 --> 01:22:35,125
arguing in favor of Bitcoin

4006
01:22:35,125 --> 01:22:36,833
and putting forth completely

4007
01:22:36,833 --> 01:22:38,375
stupid, boneheaded,

4008
01:22:38,375 --> 01:22:40,708
absurd type arguments for it

4009
01:22:40,708 --> 01:22:42,875
make us all look stupid.

4010
01:22:42,875 --> 01:22:43,791
Well, he was yeah,

4011
01:22:43,791 --> 01:22:44,875
he wasn't reelected,

4012
01:22:44,875 --> 01:22:45,791
so he's going to

4013
01:22:45,791 --> 01:22:47,000
think this is he's lost.

4014
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:47,416
Irrelevant.

4015
01:22:47,416 --> 01:22:48,833
That's exactly. Irrelevant.

4016
01:22:48,833 --> 01:22:49,791
And hopefully

4017
01:22:49,791 --> 01:22:52,250
the conversation.

4018
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:53,458
So

4019
01:22:53,458 --> 01:22:55,208
but, I liked him.

4020
01:22:55,208 --> 01:22:55,791
I liked the

4021
01:22:55,791 --> 01:22:56,416
he question

4022
01:22:56,416 --> 01:23:00,500
rba on on gold audits.

4023
01:23:00,750 --> 01:23:01,166
Like.

4024
01:23:01,166 --> 01:23:01,916
Yeah I feel

4025
01:23:01,916 --> 01:23:03,291
like he did a few good things.

4026
01:23:03,291 --> 01:23:05,333
So absolutely I agree.

4027
01:23:05,333 --> 01:23:06,750
But

4028
01:23:06,750 --> 01:23:07,625
it's not going to be a,

4029
01:23:07,625 --> 01:23:08,125
it's not going to be

4030
01:23:08,125 --> 01:23:09,416
an effective champion

4031
01:23:09,416 --> 01:23:10,291
of any of the causes

4032
01:23:10,291 --> 01:23:11,666
he stands for, though,

4033
01:23:11,666 --> 01:23:12,416
because unfortunately,

4034
01:23:12,416 --> 01:23:14,875
that doesn't have the ability.

4035
01:23:14,875 --> 01:23:15,458
But he get

4036
01:23:15,458 --> 01:23:16,166
and that's course it.

4037
01:23:16,166 --> 01:23:17,625
And the tragedy of all that is

4038
01:23:17,625 --> 01:23:18,208
he thinks he

4039
01:23:18,208 --> 01:23:19,166
already knows everything.

4040
01:23:19,166 --> 01:23:20,750
So he's never going to he's

4041
01:23:20,750 --> 01:23:22,333
never going to improve,

4042
01:23:22,333 --> 01:23:23,083
on his knowledge

4043
01:23:23,083 --> 01:23:24,291
if a topic because he's delved

4044
01:23:24,291 --> 01:23:24,833
his deepest

4045
01:23:24,833 --> 01:23:26,208
deeply is he thinks

4046
01:23:26,208 --> 01:23:27,166
there is to go,

4047
01:23:28,458 --> 01:23:29,250
one of the but

4048
01:23:29,250 --> 01:23:29,750
however, I

4049
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:30,666
don't necessarily

4050
01:23:30,666 --> 01:23:32,458
think it's futile

4051
01:23:32,458 --> 01:23:33,750
arguing against such people

4052
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:34,208
because remember,

4053
01:23:34,208 --> 01:23:34,666
whenever you're

4054
01:23:34,666 --> 01:23:36,208
getting into a debate online

4055
01:23:36,208 --> 01:23:38,291
with somebody about something,

4056
01:23:38,291 --> 01:23:39,166
your aim shouldn't

4057
01:23:39,166 --> 01:23:40,750
necessarily be

4058
01:23:40,750 --> 01:23:42,208
to convince that other person,

4059
01:23:42,208 --> 01:23:42,958
because quite often

4060
01:23:42,958 --> 01:23:43,708
that other person

4061
01:23:43,708 --> 01:23:45,125
is completely,

4062
01:23:45,125 --> 01:23:47,791
yeah, immune to reason,

4063
01:23:47,791 --> 01:23:49,708
allergic to reason? Almost.

4064
01:23:49,708 --> 01:23:50,458
But remember that

4065
01:23:50,458 --> 01:23:51,333
there could be thousands

4066
01:23:51,333 --> 01:23:53,125
of other people reading it

4067
01:23:53,125 --> 01:23:54,500
so that back and forth,

4068
01:23:54,500 --> 01:23:55,250
that argument,

4069
01:23:55,250 --> 01:23:56,333
there's a whole lot of people

4070
01:23:56,333 --> 01:23:57,041
that really don't know

4071
01:23:57,041 --> 01:23:58,375
where to sit.

4072
01:23:58,375 --> 01:23:59,208
I do that too.

4073
01:23:59,208 --> 01:23:59,625
I, I don't

4074
01:23:59,625 --> 01:24:00,750
when I don't know something.

4075
01:24:00,750 --> 01:24:01,291
I just often

4076
01:24:01,291 --> 01:24:01,833
sit back

4077
01:24:01,833 --> 01:24:03,000
and read the arguments

4078
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:04,166
backwards and forwards

4079
01:24:04,166 --> 01:24:05,541
and eventually,

4080
01:24:05,541 --> 01:24:06,583
like you read it

4081
01:24:06,583 --> 01:24:07,250
backwards and forwards

4082
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:07,791
and eventually

4083
01:24:07,791 --> 01:24:08,916
a position emerges

4084
01:24:08,916 --> 01:24:10,041
that's clearly

4085
01:24:10,041 --> 01:24:11,250
makes more sense

4086
01:24:11,250 --> 01:24:12,625
than the other one.

4087
01:24:12,625 --> 01:24:13,750
And so you can learn a lot

4088
01:24:13,750 --> 01:24:15,083
just from reading the debates

4089
01:24:15,083 --> 01:24:16,250
and staying well out of it

4090
01:24:16,250 --> 01:24:18,125
while you make your mind up.

4091
01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:18,833
And so

4092
01:24:19,791 --> 01:24:21,500
that therefore, having those

4093
01:24:21,500 --> 01:24:22,250
debates with someone

4094
01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:23,125
whose mind you know

4095
01:24:23,125 --> 01:24:25,291
you're not going to change

4096
01:24:25,291 --> 01:24:27,458
is still performing a service

4097
01:24:27,458 --> 01:24:28,166
for the audience.

4098
01:24:28,166 --> 01:24:28,500
It's now

4099
01:24:28,500 --> 01:24:29,416
the audience you're

4100
01:24:29,416 --> 01:24:30,583
trying to convince,

4101
01:24:30,583 --> 01:24:32,250
not your opponent.

4102
01:24:32,250 --> 01:24:33,916
Yeah, yeah,

4103
01:24:33,916 --> 01:24:35,125
there was some great, really?

4104
01:24:35,125 --> 01:24:35,916
And soon as we

4105
01:24:35,916 --> 01:24:36,625
in this call, I'm

4106
01:24:36,625 --> 01:24:37,500
going to be taking

4107
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:38,500
some screenshots

4108
01:24:38,500 --> 01:24:39,958
of the rebuttals

4109
01:24:39,958 --> 01:24:41,458
before they take you down.

4110
01:24:41,458 --> 01:24:42,000
I'll put them

4111
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,416
in the history book of

4112
01:24:43,416 --> 01:24:44,708
Australian Bitcoin

4113
01:24:44,708 --> 01:24:45,625
because yeah,

4114
01:24:45,625 --> 01:24:46,041
I've got to give

4115
01:24:46,041 --> 01:24:47,458
some credit to cons as well.

4116
01:24:47,458 --> 01:24:48,375
He has some really good

4117
01:24:48,375 --> 01:24:48,791
come back.

4118
01:24:48,791 --> 01:24:49,708
See him is like

4119
01:24:49,708 --> 01:24:52,333
do you know what money is.

4120
01:24:52,333 --> 01:24:54,416
Oh

4121
01:24:54,416 --> 01:24:56,541
yeah.

4122
01:24:56,541 --> 01:24:57,500
What else.

4123
01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:58,583
Oh my gosh okay

4124
01:24:58,583 --> 01:24:59,666
I kind of just realized

4125
01:24:59,666 --> 01:25:00,833
what time it is as well.

4126
01:25:00,833 --> 01:25:03,833
So

4127
01:25:04,666 --> 01:25:07,041
Where can we go from here, JP.

4128
01:25:07,041 --> 01:25:08,000
Well,

4129
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,250
maybe I could just

4130
01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:10,000
point out,

4131
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:10,916
maybe just a quick

4132
01:25:10,916 --> 01:25:12,625
shill of the made ups.

4133
01:25:12,625 --> 01:25:13,291
That sort of

4134
01:25:13,291 --> 01:25:14,166
Bitcoin activities.

4135
01:25:14,166 --> 01:25:14,750
Let's do that.

4136
01:25:16,166 --> 01:25:17,875
So, many of

4137
01:25:17,875 --> 01:25:19,000
you Australian listeners

4138
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:19,833
probably already

4139
01:25:19,833 --> 01:25:20,666
heard me mention

4140
01:25:20,666 --> 01:25:21,791
this on other,

4141
01:25:21,791 --> 01:25:23,166
other podcasts as well.

4142
01:25:23,166 --> 01:25:26,125
But, I host the Bitcoin Sydney

4143
01:25:26,125 --> 01:25:26,500
made up.

4144
01:25:26,500 --> 01:25:28,833
So, we've had that going for.

4145
01:25:28,833 --> 01:25:30,208
Oh it's been going since

4146
01:25:30,208 --> 01:25:31,833
Stefan Lavera

4147
01:25:31,833 --> 01:25:32,375
and Harry

4148
01:25:32,375 --> 01:25:33,750
Rob and myself established

4149
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:36,208
that back in 2018.

4150
01:25:36,208 --> 01:25:36,958
I think it was as a

4151
01:25:36,958 --> 01:25:37,375
as I said

4152
01:25:37,375 --> 01:25:38,500
explicitly, Bitcoin

4153
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:41,416
only made up in the face of

4154
01:25:41,416 --> 01:25:42,625
the fact that everything else

4155
01:25:42,625 --> 01:25:44,333
had gone to the crypto

4156
01:25:44,333 --> 01:25:47,041
and, and blockchain.

4157
01:25:47,041 --> 01:25:48,375
So this was the first of

4158
01:25:48,375 --> 01:25:49,416
the explicitly Bitcoin

4159
01:25:49,416 --> 01:25:50,250
only made ups.

4160
01:25:50,250 --> 01:25:52,500
That was in Australia and

4161
01:25:52,500 --> 01:25:53,416
relatively early

4162
01:25:53,416 --> 01:25:54,916
for the world as well.

4163
01:25:54,916 --> 01:25:56,458
We realized that was necessary

4164
01:25:56,458 --> 01:25:57,958
to fix the scene as you know,

4165
01:25:57,958 --> 01:25:59,458
because it was, you know, the

4166
01:25:59,458 --> 01:26:00,250
the conversation

4167
01:26:00,250 --> 01:26:01,208
had gotten very derailed,

4168
01:26:01,208 --> 01:26:02,000
not just with crypto,

4169
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,125
but with Bitcoin forks

4170
01:26:03,125 --> 01:26:04,166
and things like that as well.

4171
01:26:05,541 --> 01:26:06,541
And that has proven

4172
01:26:06,541 --> 01:26:07,166
to be a model

4173
01:26:07,166 --> 01:26:08,208
that others that have gone on

4174
01:26:08,208 --> 01:26:09,000
and created Bitcoin

4175
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:09,583
only made ups

4176
01:26:09,583 --> 01:26:10,291
around the country.

4177
01:26:10,291 --> 01:26:10,958
But then there's now

4178
01:26:10,958 --> 01:26:12,666
a sort of a full,

4179
01:26:12,666 --> 01:26:14,541
lot of Bitcoin made up,

4180
01:26:14,541 --> 01:26:14,875
meaning

4181
01:26:14,875 --> 01:26:15,916
not just in the,

4182
01:26:15,916 --> 01:26:17,041
in the capital cities,

4183
01:26:17,041 --> 01:26:18,083
but I think you mentioned

4184
01:26:18,083 --> 01:26:19,541
as well, Regional.

4185
01:26:19,541 --> 01:26:20,708
Northern Rivers.

4186
01:26:20,708 --> 01:26:22,791
Yep.

4187
01:26:22,791 --> 01:26:24,291
And so Australian bitcoin

4188
01:26:24,291 --> 01:26:25,500
body lists

4189
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:26,666
all the locations

4190
01:26:26,666 --> 01:26:27,750
around Australia.

4191
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:29,125
But rather than round them

4192
01:26:29,125 --> 01:26:30,041
all off the Geary

4193
01:26:30,041 --> 01:26:31,000
strike perfect bit

4194
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:32,666
Australian Bitcoin in the body

4195
01:26:32,666 --> 01:26:35,791
I host also the pox Bush bash.

4196
01:26:36,208 --> 01:26:38,000
So there is four bush bashes

4197
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:38,375
a year

4198
01:26:38,375 --> 01:26:39,208
which are events

4199
01:26:39,208 --> 01:26:40,875
that all bitcoin Bitcoin

4200
01:26:40,875 --> 01:26:42,416
is from all around Australia

4201
01:26:42,416 --> 01:26:43,583
joining on.

4202
01:26:43,583 --> 01:26:45,208
And the New South Wales

4203
01:26:45,208 --> 01:26:46,833
one is held in Parkes.

4204
01:26:46,833 --> 01:26:47,541
It'll be on again

4205
01:26:47,541 --> 01:26:49,916
at the end of November.

4206
01:26:49,916 --> 01:26:52,250
So I hosting that and

4207
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:55,875
and what else.

4208
01:26:55,875 --> 01:26:56,875
I think

4209
01:26:56,875 --> 01:26:57,416
and of course

4210
01:26:57,416 --> 01:26:58,166
as far as the Sydney

4211
01:26:58,166 --> 01:26:58,791
meetups are concerned,

4212
01:26:58,791 --> 01:26:59,750
we also have socials

4213
01:26:59,750 --> 01:27:01,958
around the,

4214
01:27:01,958 --> 01:27:04,041
around the Northern Beaches,

4215
01:27:04,041 --> 01:27:04,833
western suburbs,

4216
01:27:04,833 --> 01:27:05,625
southern suburbs,

4217
01:27:05,625 --> 01:27:06,625
again, as you mentioned.

4218
01:27:06,625 --> 01:27:08,000
Any at all on the Australian

4219
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:09,500
bitcoin industry body website.

4220
01:27:09,500 --> 01:27:10,375
And he does a great job

4221
01:27:10,375 --> 01:27:11,125
with that.

4222
01:27:11,125 --> 01:27:11,541
And he's

4223
01:27:11,541 --> 01:27:12,541
also the host up there

4224
01:27:12,541 --> 01:27:13,666
at the Northern Beaches,

4225
01:27:13,666 --> 01:27:16,041
as well as co-host down in,

4226
01:27:16,041 --> 01:27:17,000
down in Sydney here.

4227
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:18,958
So yeah, so plenty of things

4228
01:27:18,958 --> 01:27:20,166
if people are not,

4229
01:27:20,166 --> 01:27:20,958
just watching this

4230
01:27:20,958 --> 01:27:21,500
and you haven't

4231
01:27:21,500 --> 01:27:23,000
gotten yourself

4232
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,041
on around to a made up,

4233
01:27:25,041 --> 01:27:27,500
don't be intimidated.

4234
01:27:27,500 --> 01:27:28,083
Particularly

4235
01:27:28,083 --> 01:27:28,958
I think we were talking about

4236
01:27:28,958 --> 01:27:29,291
as well

4237
01:27:29,291 --> 01:27:30,500
about the women in Bitcoin

4238
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:31,166
things earlier on

4239
01:27:31,166 --> 01:27:33,708
before the podcast. Anyway,

4240
01:27:33,708 --> 01:27:35,000
I'll let you maybe

4241
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:36,291
talk about that, but,

4242
01:27:36,291 --> 01:27:37,375
yeah, the fires

4243
01:27:37,375 --> 01:27:38,250
that may that's a concern

4244
01:27:38,250 --> 01:27:38,708
that they may

4245
01:27:38,708 --> 01:27:40,125
they're not like intimidating

4246
01:27:40,125 --> 01:27:41,541
like technical type things.

4247
01:27:41,541 --> 01:27:42,583
We have separate things

4248
01:27:42,583 --> 01:27:42,833
for that.

4249
01:27:42,833 --> 01:27:43,541
If you want to go down.

4250
01:27:43,541 --> 01:27:43,875
That tech

4251
01:27:43,875 --> 01:27:44,750
group is also a bit

4252
01:27:44,750 --> 01:27:46,875
that that, Alex Hanley

4253
01:27:46,875 --> 01:27:48,208
and Sydney here is somewhere

4254
01:27:48,208 --> 01:27:48,791
it was that

4255
01:27:48,791 --> 01:27:49,708
to one of those over

4256
01:27:49,708 --> 01:27:50,583
at Chatswood last night.

4257
01:27:50,583 --> 01:27:52,250
So there is that small groups

4258
01:27:52,250 --> 01:27:53,583
focusing on technical stuff.

4259
01:27:55,375 --> 01:27:56,541
But these are designed to

4260
01:27:56,541 --> 01:27:57,958
be for new people and or,

4261
01:27:57,958 --> 01:28:00,208
and, and seasoned bitcoiners

4262
01:28:00,208 --> 01:28:01,083
to all

4263
01:28:01,083 --> 01:28:03,166
get something out of it.

4264
01:28:03,166 --> 01:28:04,416
Yeah.

4265
01:28:04,416 --> 01:28:05,916
But on the women in Bitcoin.

4266
01:28:05,916 --> 01:28:06,916
Yeah, we spoke about that

4267
01:28:06,916 --> 01:28:07,583
earlier on

4268
01:28:07,583 --> 01:28:09,125
and I wanted to mention

4269
01:28:09,125 --> 01:28:10,750
like since I started hosting

4270
01:28:10,750 --> 01:28:12,208
some women in Bitcoin

4271
01:28:12,208 --> 01:28:14,000
events, we've had,

4272
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:15,291
you know, a lot more women

4273
01:28:15,291 --> 01:28:16,458
join the scene.

4274
01:28:16,458 --> 01:28:17,708
And I describe myself

4275
01:28:17,708 --> 01:28:18,958
as like the gateway drug

4276
01:28:18,958 --> 01:28:21,958
to bitcoin quite often.

4277
01:28:21,958 --> 01:28:22,208
You know,

4278
01:28:22,208 --> 01:28:23,541
women will be part

4279
01:28:23,541 --> 01:28:24,708
of the online chats

4280
01:28:24,708 --> 01:28:25,583
or the community,

4281
01:28:25,583 --> 01:28:26,375
but they don't actually

4282
01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:27,208
go out to meetups

4283
01:28:27,208 --> 01:28:28,583
because I don't know,

4284
01:28:28,583 --> 01:28:29,666
sometimes it's

4285
01:28:29,666 --> 01:28:30,708
a practical reason,

4286
01:28:30,708 --> 01:28:31,833
like they've got kids in

4287
01:28:31,833 --> 01:28:32,416
a family

4288
01:28:32,416 --> 01:28:33,166
to look after

4289
01:28:33,166 --> 01:28:36,000
and can't make it to,

4290
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,958
devs being on a pub, in a pub,

4291
01:28:38,958 --> 01:28:40,166
but other times,

4292
01:28:40,166 --> 01:28:40,958
like if they just find it

4293
01:28:40,958 --> 01:28:41,708
a lot easier

4294
01:28:41,708 --> 01:28:42,875
to sort of break through

4295
01:28:42,875 --> 01:28:43,666
if a woman is

4296
01:28:43,666 --> 01:28:44,541
hosting an event,

4297
01:28:44,541 --> 01:28:45,333
or if a woman is

4298
01:28:45,333 --> 01:28:46,125
organizing an event

4299
01:28:46,125 --> 01:28:47,333
because

4300
01:28:47,333 --> 01:28:48,583
they will come

4301
01:28:48,583 --> 01:28:49,250
see that it's

4302
01:28:49,250 --> 01:28:50,666
a really friendly crowd.

4303
01:28:50,666 --> 01:28:51,625
Everyone wants to help

4304
01:28:51,625 --> 01:28:52,166
you learn.

4305
01:28:52,166 --> 01:28:53,708
Everyone wants to,

4306
01:28:53,708 --> 01:28:54,375
you know, offer

4307
01:28:54,375 --> 01:28:55,125
as much knowledge

4308
01:28:55,125 --> 01:28:56,541
for free as possible

4309
01:28:56,541 --> 01:28:58,791
because that's how we like,

4310
01:28:58,791 --> 01:29:01,333
and yeah, I

4311
01:29:01,333 --> 01:29:01,666
so that's

4312
01:29:01,666 --> 01:29:02,833
one of the things women

4313
01:29:02,833 --> 01:29:03,291
end up

4314
01:29:03,291 --> 01:29:04,541
joining the main meetup,

4315
01:29:04,541 --> 01:29:05,125
just because.

4316
01:29:05,125 --> 01:29:05,916
I think that was,

4317
01:29:05,916 --> 01:29:06,791
as I was saying before,

4318
01:29:06,791 --> 01:29:07,500
I thought, was that

4319
01:29:07,500 --> 01:29:08,250
because there's been a few

4320
01:29:08,250 --> 01:29:08,666
ideas like,

4321
01:29:08,666 --> 01:29:09,208
why have we got

4322
01:29:09,208 --> 01:29:10,833
to have separate women, things

4323
01:29:10,833 --> 01:29:11,583
like all the

4324
01:29:11,583 --> 01:29:12,458
like no one's ever

4325
01:29:12,458 --> 01:29:13,708
nothing's ever happened to it

4326
01:29:13,708 --> 01:29:15,250
like bad to a woman

4327
01:29:15,250 --> 01:29:16,125
and didn't like a normal

4328
01:29:16,125 --> 01:29:16,875
mix made up.

4329
01:29:16,875 --> 01:29:17,458
What's the problem?

4330
01:29:18,458 --> 01:29:19,333
I guess, though, from my

4331
01:29:19,333 --> 01:29:19,875
point of view,

4332
01:29:19,875 --> 01:29:20,458
from the

4333
01:29:20,458 --> 01:29:21,500
point of view of people

4334
01:29:21,500 --> 01:29:21,958
who haven't

4335
01:29:21,958 --> 01:29:22,875
been to the same before,

4336
01:29:22,875 --> 01:29:23,291
they don't know

4337
01:29:23,291 --> 01:29:24,291
where to start.

4338
01:29:24,291 --> 01:29:25,916
It provides that initial thing

4339
01:29:25,916 --> 01:29:26,541
and then they realize,

4340
01:29:26,541 --> 01:29:27,625
okay, I've come to that now.

4341
01:29:27,625 --> 01:29:28,791
I can just come.

4342
01:29:28,791 --> 01:29:30,416
It's not not so intimidating.

4343
01:29:30,416 --> 01:29:31,208
I could just come now

4344
01:29:31,208 --> 01:29:32,166
to the normal meetup.

4345
01:29:32,166 --> 01:29:34,708
We don't, you know,

4346
01:29:34,708 --> 01:29:36,083
it's always a way of,

4347
01:29:36,083 --> 01:29:37,041
of potentially

4348
01:29:37,041 --> 01:29:38,125
getting people involved

4349
01:29:38,125 --> 01:29:38,541
that might have

4350
01:29:38,541 --> 01:29:40,250
had trepidation,

4351
01:29:40,250 --> 01:29:42,000
beforehand because,

4352
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:42,500
and by the way,

4353
01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:43,416
I don't think the

4354
01:29:43,416 --> 01:29:43,708
the point

4355
01:29:43,708 --> 01:29:44,750
we were talking about before

4356
01:29:44,750 --> 01:29:45,416
is how

4357
01:29:45,416 --> 01:29:46,500
the people that sort of say,

4358
01:29:46,500 --> 01:29:46,916
oh, you know,

4359
01:29:46,916 --> 01:29:48,125
why are we having separate

4360
01:29:48,125 --> 01:29:48,583
women?

4361
01:29:48,583 --> 01:29:49,791
Things like,

4362
01:29:49,791 --> 01:29:51,208
I don't think those people

4363
01:29:51,208 --> 01:29:53,000
have anything against,

4364
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:54,583
women having their own events.

4365
01:29:54,583 --> 01:29:55,333
It's just that

4366
01:29:55,333 --> 01:29:56,875
our society has made it

4367
01:29:56,875 --> 01:29:57,916
sort of taboo

4368
01:29:57,916 --> 01:29:58,791
for there to be male

4369
01:29:58,791 --> 01:30:00,208
only spaces. And so it's.

4370
01:30:00,208 --> 01:30:00,791
Yeah. Therefore.

4371
01:30:00,791 --> 01:30:02,000
Well, if why, why,

4372
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:03,083
why can't we have I think,

4373
01:30:03,083 --> 01:30:04,041
I think people are all

4374
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:06,000
the people that have

4375
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:06,541
sort of said

4376
01:30:06,541 --> 01:30:07,583
that they don't like the idea

4377
01:30:07,583 --> 01:30:07,833
of sort

4378
01:30:07,833 --> 01:30:08,708
of these separate women,

4379
01:30:08,708 --> 01:30:09,666
things are perfectly fine

4380
01:30:09,666 --> 01:30:09,875
with it.

4381
01:30:09,875 --> 01:30:11,666
If they could also weren't

4382
01:30:11,666 --> 01:30:13,583
being frowned upon by

4383
01:30:13,583 --> 01:30:14,583
by the existence

4384
01:30:14,583 --> 01:30:15,458
of male spaces,

4385
01:30:15,458 --> 01:30:15,916
which has all

4386
01:30:15,916 --> 01:30:18,500
been essentially,

4387
01:30:18,500 --> 01:30:20,125
been many cases drawn there.

4388
01:30:20,125 --> 01:30:21,875
And I think there was this

4389
01:30:21,875 --> 01:30:22,791
there are situations

4390
01:30:22,791 --> 01:30:25,791
due to the inherent and

4391
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:26,583
differences

4392
01:30:26,583 --> 01:30:27,416
between men and women,

4393
01:30:27,416 --> 01:30:28,416
that we shouldn't

4394
01:30:28,416 --> 01:30:29,458
feel awkward

4395
01:30:29,458 --> 01:30:31,041
about acknowledging.

4396
01:30:31,041 --> 01:30:31,833
Yeah.

4397
01:30:31,833 --> 01:30:33,000
That means there are times

4398
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:34,250
when you want to have

4399
01:30:34,250 --> 01:30:35,250
potentially separately

4400
01:30:35,250 --> 01:30:35,750
just I'd

4401
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:37,000
say that it's okay for one,

4402
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:38,166
but not I think the other.

4403
01:30:38,166 --> 01:30:38,416
I think.

4404
01:30:38,416 --> 01:30:39,125
Exactly.

4405
01:30:39,125 --> 01:30:40,833
No double standards, please.

4406
01:30:40,833 --> 01:30:42,958
Yeah, yeah.

4407
01:30:42,958 --> 01:30:44,000
No, I have had that

4408
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:44,916
question before

4409
01:30:44,916 --> 01:30:45,625
and it's like

4410
01:30:45,625 --> 01:30:46,541
I just kind of answered

4411
01:30:46,541 --> 01:30:47,250
honestly, you know,

4412
01:30:47,250 --> 01:30:48,833
sometimes it's easier

4413
01:30:48,833 --> 01:30:50,333
to speak to other women. Some

4414
01:30:51,958 --> 01:30:52,916
women come to those things.

4415
01:30:52,916 --> 01:30:54,083
I find there's no problem.

4416
01:30:54,083 --> 01:30:54,750
You can come along

4417
01:30:54,750 --> 01:30:55,791
like the normal made up

4418
01:30:55,791 --> 01:30:56,541
says no. Yeah.

4419
01:30:56,541 --> 01:30:57,583
They're not intimidating.

4420
01:30:57,583 --> 01:30:58,500
There's they're not

4421
01:30:58,500 --> 01:30:58,958
there's not going to be

4422
01:30:58,958 --> 01:31:01,416
like creeps there or whatever.

4423
01:31:01,416 --> 01:31:02,625
Whatever other creeps

4424
01:31:02,625 --> 01:31:05,625
in Bitcoin I promise you.

4425
01:31:07,500 --> 01:31:08,458
But I did remember

4426
01:31:08,458 --> 01:31:09,416
while we were speaking,

4427
01:31:09,416 --> 01:31:10,750
I also wanted to ask you,

4428
01:31:10,750 --> 01:31:11,333
you traveled

4429
01:31:11,333 --> 01:31:12,916
recently to South Korea.

4430
01:31:12,916 --> 01:31:13,708
You went to Seoul,

4431
01:31:13,708 --> 01:31:14,916
did like a conference.

4432
01:31:14,916 --> 01:31:16,083
You were on a panel like,

4433
01:31:16,083 --> 01:31:16,833
tell me about that.

4434
01:31:16,833 --> 01:31:18,500
Yeah. Yeah, that was great.

4435
01:31:18,500 --> 01:31:19,583
So, yeah, again,

4436
01:31:19,583 --> 01:31:20,041
thank you

4437
01:31:20,041 --> 01:31:20,458
to the

4438
01:31:20,458 --> 01:31:22,250
to the organizers, of that,

4439
01:31:22,250 --> 01:31:23,250
I was,

4440
01:31:23,250 --> 01:31:24,583
so we had a member,

4441
01:31:24,583 --> 01:31:27,000
in, in Sydney, was, specter.

4442
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:28,166
His name is a screen name.

4443
01:31:28,166 --> 01:31:29,666
Is is,

4444
01:31:29,666 --> 01:31:30,875
developing a thing,

4445
01:31:30,875 --> 01:31:32,458
a way of he's

4446
01:31:32,458 --> 01:31:33,458
part of a development team

4447
01:31:33,458 --> 01:31:34,583
that's trying to

4448
01:31:34,583 --> 01:31:36,500
to make the Bitcoin node

4449
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,583
essentially run on a phone

4450
01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:38,666
by having a sort of hash

4451
01:31:38,666 --> 01:31:39,916
of the blockchain on there.

4452
01:31:39,916 --> 01:31:40,708
I don't want to get

4453
01:31:40,708 --> 01:31:41,791
too deeply technical.

4454
01:31:41,791 --> 01:31:42,458
I'm not exactly

4455
01:31:42,458 --> 01:31:43,166
sure how it works,

4456
01:31:43,166 --> 01:31:44,333
but that's the

4457
01:31:44,333 --> 01:31:44,875
the project

4458
01:31:44,875 --> 01:31:45,791
that he was in Sydney,

4459
01:31:45,791 --> 01:31:47,791
and he was also up

4460
01:31:47,791 --> 01:31:48,625
in very close

4461
01:31:48,625 --> 01:31:49,333
with the organizers

4462
01:31:49,333 --> 01:31:50,083
of Bitcoin Soul

4463
01:31:50,083 --> 01:31:51,791
and invited me like to

4464
01:31:51,791 --> 01:31:52,791
to speak at sold.

4465
01:31:52,791 --> 01:31:53,958
So I haven't

4466
01:31:53,958 --> 01:31:55,000
been to Korea before.

4467
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,250
What better way to

4468
01:31:56,250 --> 01:31:57,833
to experience

4469
01:31:57,833 --> 01:31:58,958
in the country than do it

4470
01:31:58,958 --> 01:32:00,291
and you know,

4471
01:32:00,291 --> 01:32:00,833
with a bunch of

4472
01:32:00,833 --> 01:32:01,583
other bitcoiners

4473
01:32:01,583 --> 01:32:02,541
and so

4474
01:32:02,541 --> 01:32:03,000
was it all

4475
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:03,750
going to be in town.

4476
01:32:03,750 --> 01:32:04,541
And so,

4477
01:32:04,541 --> 01:32:05,250
I went along to that,

4478
01:32:05,250 --> 01:32:05,416
and I

4479
01:32:05,416 --> 01:32:06,625
basically hosted the panel

4480
01:32:06,625 --> 01:32:08,250
on the first VIP day

4481
01:32:08,250 --> 01:32:09,666
about Bitcoin community.

4482
01:32:09,666 --> 01:32:11,875
So I was had a conversation.

4483
01:32:11,875 --> 01:32:12,750
We had a conversation

4484
01:32:12,750 --> 01:32:13,583
with representatives

4485
01:32:13,583 --> 01:32:15,458
from El Salvador.

4486
01:32:15,458 --> 01:32:16,041
There was another one

4487
01:32:16,041 --> 01:32:17,875
from, Indonesia.

4488
01:32:17,875 --> 01:32:19,333
It's Caitlin from Indonesia.

4489
01:32:19,333 --> 01:32:20,750
Oh yeah. Keep playing.

4490
01:32:20,750 --> 01:32:21,500
Keep up. Yeah.

4491
01:32:23,833 --> 01:32:24,583
He was,

4492
01:32:24,583 --> 01:32:25,583
from Indonesia and we

4493
01:32:25,583 --> 01:32:27,000
had and,

4494
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:27,958
Arthur from the

4495
01:32:27,958 --> 01:32:29,250
Bitcoin Association

4496
01:32:29,250 --> 01:32:29,708
of Hong Kong

4497
01:32:29,708 --> 01:32:30,708
and I think it was a

4498
01:32:30,708 --> 01:32:32,958
Roman forum.

4499
01:32:32,958 --> 01:32:33,833
From El Salvador.

4500
01:32:33,833 --> 01:32:35,750
So yeah, three terrific

4501
01:32:35,750 --> 01:32:36,791
Bitcoin communities.

4502
01:32:36,791 --> 01:32:37,208
And with me

4503
01:32:37,208 --> 01:32:40,125
from Bitcoin Sydney

4504
01:32:40,125 --> 01:32:40,750
and we went

4505
01:32:40,750 --> 01:32:41,833
yeah we just discussed

4506
01:32:41,833 --> 01:32:42,458
ideas of

4507
01:32:42,458 --> 01:32:42,750
you know

4508
01:32:42,750 --> 01:32:43,833
the various ways in which

4509
01:32:43,833 --> 01:32:45,958
some are creating,

4510
01:32:45,958 --> 01:32:48,083
circular economies and,

4511
01:32:48,083 --> 01:32:48,833
the challenges

4512
01:32:48,833 --> 01:32:49,416
they face in

4513
01:32:49,416 --> 01:32:50,458
terms of how they,

4514
01:32:50,458 --> 01:32:51,541
you know, keep shit

4515
01:32:51,541 --> 01:32:52,000
country

4516
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:52,916
out of their community.

4517
01:32:52,916 --> 01:32:54,416
That came up,

4518
01:32:54,416 --> 01:32:55,166
a bunch of other things.

4519
01:32:55,166 --> 01:32:55,708
But overall,

4520
01:32:55,708 --> 01:32:57,416
it was a great experience.

4521
01:32:57,416 --> 01:32:58,375
It was in a,

4522
01:32:58,375 --> 01:32:59,833
a magnificent location

4523
01:32:59,833 --> 01:33:02,208
on the 76th floor of,

4524
01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:03,458
of the tallest

4525
01:33:03,458 --> 01:33:05,083
building in Korea, which was,

4526
01:33:05,083 --> 01:33:07,000
I think, the signal

4527
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:07,916
signal tower.

4528
01:33:07,916 --> 01:33:08,916
I think it was called

4529
01:33:08,916 --> 01:33:10,791
Massive Building.

4530
01:33:10,791 --> 01:33:11,500
So it was over

4531
01:33:11,500 --> 01:33:12,625
three days and had a chance

4532
01:33:12,625 --> 01:33:13,083
to check out

4533
01:33:13,083 --> 01:33:14,375
a few of the other.

4534
01:33:14,375 --> 01:33:17,166
I usual tourist sites in,

4535
01:33:17,166 --> 01:33:18,166
in, Seoul,

4536
01:33:18,166 --> 01:33:19,375
but very impressive country,

4537
01:33:19,375 --> 01:33:19,791
very much

4538
01:33:19,791 --> 01:33:20,750
like what I,

4539
01:33:20,750 --> 01:33:21,708
I haven't been to Japan,

4540
01:33:21,708 --> 01:33:22,833
but what I would expect

4541
01:33:22,833 --> 01:33:23,750
I've heard lot

4542
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:26,250
Japan is like very high trust,

4543
01:33:26,250 --> 01:33:27,500
very clean.

4544
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:28,625
Everything works.

4545
01:33:28,625 --> 01:33:29,208
Everything is

4546
01:33:29,208 --> 01:33:31,166
really well-thought through

4547
01:33:31,166 --> 01:33:31,916
people very,

4548
01:33:31,916 --> 01:33:33,458
you know, courteous and polite

4549
01:33:33,458 --> 01:33:34,500
as a, as a whole.

4550
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:35,250
You know, it's like that,

4551
01:33:36,750 --> 01:33:37,125
I guess

4552
01:33:37,125 --> 01:33:37,916
it's like what you get

4553
01:33:37,916 --> 01:33:38,166
when you go

4554
01:33:38,166 --> 01:33:38,666
to sort of

4555
01:33:38,666 --> 01:33:39,583
homogenous, high

4556
01:33:39,583 --> 01:33:42,000
trust society,

4557
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:43,166
where you genuinely do

4558
01:33:43,166 --> 01:33:45,958
have a sense of community.

4559
01:33:45,958 --> 01:33:46,666
I remarked,

4560
01:33:46,666 --> 01:33:47,291
when coming back

4561
01:33:47,291 --> 01:33:48,708
to Australia is very much

4562
01:33:48,708 --> 01:33:50,666
you don't really feel

4563
01:33:50,666 --> 01:33:51,791
now in Australia

4564
01:33:51,791 --> 01:33:52,708
that there is

4565
01:33:52,708 --> 01:33:54,166
an Australian community

4566
01:33:54,166 --> 01:33:57,166
or an and Australian culture.

4567
01:33:57,500 --> 01:33:59,458
We are now just essentially

4568
01:33:59,458 --> 01:34:00,916
a random collection

4569
01:34:00,916 --> 01:34:03,916
of tangible economic units

4570
01:34:04,041 --> 01:34:05,000
replaceable

4571
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,250
with more fundamental,

4572
01:34:07,250 --> 01:34:08,458
fungible economic units.

4573
01:34:08,458 --> 01:34:09,250
It can just be keep

4574
01:34:09,250 --> 01:34:10,625
being imported from overseas

4575
01:34:10,625 --> 01:34:12,166
in order for the government

4576
01:34:12,166 --> 01:34:13,416
to prop up the GDP

4577
01:34:13,416 --> 01:34:14,708
at the expense of the per

4578
01:34:14,708 --> 01:34:16,000
capita GDP.

4579
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:16,625
And everybody

4580
01:34:16,625 --> 01:34:19,000
who already lives. See,

4581
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:19,833
that's all we are.

4582
01:34:19,833 --> 01:34:20,666
We're just.

4583
01:34:20,666 --> 01:34:21,875
No, we're not citizens.

4584
01:34:21,875 --> 01:34:22,750
We're just fungible

4585
01:34:22,750 --> 01:34:24,083
economic units.

4586
01:34:24,083 --> 01:34:26,125
You walk out your door.

4587
01:34:26,125 --> 01:34:26,750
I don't

4588
01:34:26,750 --> 01:34:27,333
I imagine

4589
01:34:27,333 --> 01:34:27,958
what goes through

4590
01:34:27,958 --> 01:34:28,791
the head of tourists

4591
01:34:28,791 --> 01:34:29,500
who come in now,

4592
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:30,250
they probably want to, like,

4593
01:34:30,250 --> 01:34:32,166
where is this? Australia?

4594
01:34:32,166 --> 01:34:32,750
It's like this.

4595
01:34:32,750 --> 01:34:33,750
It's just like it's it's

4596
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:34,458
a generic.

4597
01:34:34,458 --> 01:34:35,500
It's like

4598
01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:37,000
there's no discernible,

4599
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:37,750
you know,

4600
01:34:37,750 --> 01:34:38,958
culture of people here

4601
01:34:38,958 --> 01:34:41,958
or national traits whatsoever.

4602
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:42,625
Yeah.

4603
01:34:42,625 --> 01:34:43,541
I think you need to come

4604
01:34:43,541 --> 01:34:45,625
to northern Rivers because.

4605
01:34:45,625 --> 01:34:46,708
That still exists. Now.

4606
01:34:46,708 --> 01:34:47,750
I agree, it still exists.

4607
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:49,125
Like I love it.

4608
01:34:49,125 --> 01:34:50,166
It's like Australia.

4609
01:34:50,166 --> 01:34:51,958
Yeah. 30 years ago.

4610
01:34:51,958 --> 01:34:52,250
Yes.

4611
01:34:52,250 --> 01:34:52,791
It's like

4612
01:34:52,791 --> 01:34:54,000
I remember what before

4613
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:54,500
I decided

4614
01:34:54,500 --> 01:34:55,500
to come and live here,

4615
01:34:55,500 --> 01:34:56,875
I was impressed to see

4616
01:34:56,875 --> 01:34:58,291
so many families

4617
01:34:58,291 --> 01:34:59,250
like dad

4618
01:34:59,250 --> 01:35:00,791
with two kids riding a bicycle

4619
01:35:00,791 --> 01:35:02,500
with no helmet down the road.

4620
01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:03,750
It's like it's optional.

4621
01:35:03,750 --> 01:35:04,708
You can choose a helmet,

4622
01:35:04,708 --> 01:35:05,458
you can choose not

4623
01:35:05,458 --> 01:35:06,208
to wear a helmet.

4624
01:35:06,208 --> 01:35:08,250
No one's going to police you.

4625
01:35:08,250 --> 01:35:09,583
The people are very freedom

4626
01:35:09,583 --> 01:35:10,125
minded.

4627
01:35:10,125 --> 01:35:11,708
They're very,

4628
01:35:11,708 --> 01:35:13,000
the government

4629
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:14,333
here feels like they're here

4630
01:35:14,333 --> 01:35:15,416
to serve the people,

4631
01:35:15,416 --> 01:35:17,541
not the other way around.

4632
01:35:17,541 --> 01:35:18,541
It's just it's

4633
01:35:18,541 --> 01:35:19,708
just a beautiful place, like.

4634
01:35:19,708 --> 01:35:20,625
You know, I.

4635
01:35:20,625 --> 01:35:22,666
Understand without a permit.

4636
01:35:23,958 --> 01:35:24,333
Yeah.

4637
01:35:24,333 --> 01:35:24,583
What?

4638
01:35:24,583 --> 01:35:24,833
I said

4639
01:35:24,833 --> 01:35:25,375
that, of course, it's

4640
01:35:25,375 --> 01:35:26,708
a very much a capital city

4641
01:35:26,708 --> 01:35:28,666
centric view.

4642
01:35:28,666 --> 01:35:29,208
But you had,

4643
01:35:29,208 --> 01:35:30,291
I think even in Brisbane,

4644
01:35:30,291 --> 01:35:30,833
it's probably

4645
01:35:30,833 --> 01:35:32,250
still much like the.

4646
01:35:32,250 --> 01:35:34,875
It was, decades ago.

4647
01:35:34,875 --> 01:35:36,416
But how long that will last?

4648
01:35:36,416 --> 01:35:38,083
I don't know, because the

4649
01:35:38,083 --> 01:35:39,958
the present government

4650
01:35:39,958 --> 01:35:40,916
that we have. Indeed.

4651
01:35:40,916 --> 01:35:41,750
I don't think it matters

4652
01:35:41,750 --> 01:35:43,416
which side you vote for.

4653
01:35:43,416 --> 01:35:45,083
They're on the side of

4654
01:35:45,083 --> 01:35:45,708
the people

4655
01:35:45,708 --> 01:35:47,583
that donate to their coffers,

4656
01:35:47,583 --> 01:35:48,958
which are businesses,

4657
01:35:48,958 --> 01:35:50,166
large businesses

4658
01:35:50,166 --> 01:35:51,166
who the only way

4659
01:35:51,166 --> 01:35:51,541
when you

4660
01:35:51,541 --> 01:35:52,375
when you're a business

4661
01:35:52,375 --> 01:35:54,291
like a Wesfarmers and a Coles

4662
01:35:54,291 --> 01:35:55,583
and between you you've already

4663
01:35:55,583 --> 01:35:57,291
pretty much got 100% of

4664
01:35:57,291 --> 01:35:59,583
the market share

4665
01:35:59,583 --> 01:36:01,083
of the country,

4666
01:36:01,083 --> 01:36:02,250
then how do you increase

4667
01:36:02,250 --> 01:36:04,708
the size of your business,

4668
01:36:04,708 --> 01:36:05,375
increase the size

4669
01:36:05,375 --> 01:36:07,250
of the population

4670
01:36:07,250 --> 01:36:08,083
you don't like?

4671
01:36:08,083 --> 01:36:08,875
That's all you got,

4672
01:36:08,875 --> 01:36:10,708
and you take as many people,

4673
01:36:10,708 --> 01:36:11,666
you will be pushing

4674
01:36:11,666 --> 01:36:13,041
for as much immigration

4675
01:36:13,041 --> 01:36:14,666
as you can and

4676
01:36:15,666 --> 01:36:16,416
and you want.

4677
01:36:16,416 --> 01:36:17,208
And it doesn't

4678
01:36:17,208 --> 01:36:17,875
matter to you

4679
01:36:17,875 --> 01:36:19,041
how you know that

4680
01:36:19,041 --> 01:36:19,416
the people

4681
01:36:19,416 --> 01:36:20,333
that already live here now

4682
01:36:20,333 --> 01:36:21,375
can't buy a home

4683
01:36:21,375 --> 01:36:22,541
because you have

4684
01:36:22,541 --> 01:36:23,833
the demand side

4685
01:36:23,833 --> 01:36:24,833
pressure that you've put

4686
01:36:24,833 --> 01:36:26,416
there,

4687
01:36:26,416 --> 01:36:27,625
has so greatly exceeded

4688
01:36:27,625 --> 01:36:30,625
the supply side.

4689
01:36:30,625 --> 01:36:32,375
Because the average person

4690
01:36:32,375 --> 01:36:33,000
looking to buy a

4691
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,875
home is not a political donor.

4692
01:36:34,875 --> 01:36:35,541
It's not donating

4693
01:36:35,541 --> 01:36:36,500
to the liberal fact

4694
01:36:36,500 --> 01:36:37,083
it's political.

4695
01:36:37,083 --> 01:36:38,208
Just a and it's

4696
01:36:38,208 --> 01:36:39,541
maybe a lot of people

4697
01:36:39,541 --> 01:36:40,208
probably know this,

4698
01:36:40,208 --> 01:36:42,125
but the people that about

4699
01:36:42,125 --> 01:36:44,291
the political donor class

4700
01:36:44,291 --> 01:36:45,291
don't just donate

4701
01:36:45,291 --> 01:36:46,833
to like their preferred party,

4702
01:36:46,833 --> 01:36:47,583
they don't donate

4703
01:36:47,583 --> 01:36:48,500
to Liberal or Labor,

4704
01:36:48,500 --> 01:36:50,333
they donate equally to both.

4705
01:36:50,333 --> 01:36:53,333
And then they threaten both.

4706
01:36:54,125 --> 01:36:55,583
They then threaten to withdraw

4707
01:36:55,583 --> 01:36:56,750
funding from one of them

4708
01:36:56,750 --> 01:36:57,791
if they don't get

4709
01:36:57,791 --> 01:36:58,708
what they want out of

4710
01:36:58,708 --> 01:36:59,875
whoever it is that wins.

4711
01:37:01,333 --> 01:37:02,416
Again, a terribly

4712
01:37:02,416 --> 01:37:03,791
bad bit of game theory.

4713
01:37:03,791 --> 01:37:04,583
They're in a system

4714
01:37:04,583 --> 01:37:06,000
designed that way.

4715
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,333
Again, very

4716
01:37:08,333 --> 01:37:09,125
because that's the thing.

4717
01:37:09,125 --> 01:37:10,041
So you donate to both

4718
01:37:10,041 --> 01:37:11,000
and then withdraw,

4719
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:11,625
then leaving,

4720
01:37:11,625 --> 01:37:13,166
then only the of yeah,

4721
01:37:13,166 --> 01:37:13,791
the other side

4722
01:37:13,791 --> 01:37:14,708
can then ask many.

4723
01:37:14,708 --> 01:37:15,416
So therefore

4724
01:37:15,416 --> 01:37:16,125
whoever gets in

4725
01:37:16,125 --> 01:37:17,916
will do what you say and it's.

4726
01:37:17,916 --> 01:37:19,208
Yeah.

4727
01:37:19,208 --> 01:37:20,416
And it just kind of sucks

4728
01:37:20,416 --> 01:37:21,416
for everybody else.

4729
01:37:21,416 --> 01:37:22,083
Yeah.

4730
01:37:22,083 --> 01:37:24,666
I, saw a start the other day.

4731
01:37:24,666 --> 01:37:25,458
It's it's

4732
01:37:25,458 --> 01:37:27,166
a really broad problem.

4733
01:37:27,166 --> 01:37:30,708
So abs released, a report

4734
01:37:30,708 --> 01:37:33,000
basically they said that in

4735
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:33,791
Western Australia

4736
01:37:33,791 --> 01:37:34,500
in particular,

4737
01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:36,791
since 2019, rents

4738
01:37:36,791 --> 01:37:39,791
have increased by 75%,

4739
01:37:39,833 --> 01:37:42,833
75% in six years.

4740
01:37:43,875 --> 01:37:44,583
I didn't see what

4741
01:37:44,583 --> 01:37:46,291
the other states were, but.

4742
01:37:46,291 --> 01:37:48,500
It's, Yeah, yeah.

4743
01:37:48,500 --> 01:37:51,500
That we're in price control,

4744
01:37:52,125 --> 01:37:53,000
territory.

4745
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:54,875
It's it's like I don't.

4746
01:37:54,875 --> 01:37:55,708
And then that.

4747
01:37:55,708 --> 01:37:57,291
Needs to happen for things.

4748
01:37:57,291 --> 01:37:58,333
Yeah.

4749
01:37:58,333 --> 01:37:59,208
I really don't know

4750
01:37:59,208 --> 01:38:00,791
what needs to happen,

4751
01:38:00,791 --> 01:38:01,708
to fix

4752
01:38:01,708 --> 01:38:03,291
to fix the country from here,

4753
01:38:03,291 --> 01:38:04,791
but I'm very concerned

4754
01:38:04,791 --> 01:38:05,458
about where it

4755
01:38:05,458 --> 01:38:06,708
where it's headed.

4756
01:38:06,708 --> 01:38:07,625
That is a whole debate

4757
01:38:07,625 --> 01:38:08,541
within the Bitcoin.

4758
01:38:08,541 --> 01:38:09,250
I can speak to it

4759
01:38:09,250 --> 01:38:10,166
like a lot of Bitcoin

4760
01:38:10,166 --> 01:38:10,750
as I speak to.

4761
01:38:10,750 --> 01:38:11,500
And some say, look,

4762
01:38:11,500 --> 01:38:11,875
they cannot

4763
01:38:11,875 --> 01:38:12,458
they're not just going

4764
01:38:12,458 --> 01:38:13,500
to surrender their country

4765
01:38:13,500 --> 01:38:14,250
to the Communist.

4766
01:38:14,250 --> 01:38:15,583
They're going to stick around.

4767
01:38:15,583 --> 01:38:16,666
And others are saying

4768
01:38:16,666 --> 01:38:17,500
screw this.

4769
01:38:17,500 --> 01:38:19,375
You know, I've got Bitcoin.

4770
01:38:19,375 --> 01:38:20,583
It's portable wealth.

4771
01:38:20,583 --> 01:38:21,916
I could just pull up stumps

4772
01:38:21,916 --> 01:38:23,250
and take it all with me

4773
01:38:23,250 --> 01:38:25,166
and, and and spend.

4774
01:38:25,166 --> 01:38:27,958
Just one day on your way out.

4775
01:38:27,958 --> 01:38:28,916
Right? Yeah.

4776
01:38:28,916 --> 01:38:29,666
Yeah.

4777
01:38:29,666 --> 01:38:30,958
Potentially,

4778
01:38:30,958 --> 01:38:32,750
unless they defer it.

4779
01:38:32,750 --> 01:38:33,291
Yeah.

4780
01:38:33,291 --> 01:38:33,916
In which case

4781
01:38:33,916 --> 01:38:35,083
it potentially be deferred

4782
01:38:35,083 --> 01:38:37,166
to the the the never, never.

4783
01:38:37,166 --> 01:38:38,666
Yeah. I'm 20 people have.

4784
01:38:38,666 --> 01:38:39,500
You'll do your own

4785
01:38:39,500 --> 01:38:40,458
and some people

4786
01:38:40,458 --> 01:38:41,875
may even decide that

4787
01:38:41,875 --> 01:38:43,041
if they don't intend to ever

4788
01:38:43,041 --> 01:38:44,250
return to the country, then

4789
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:48,416
just leave, you know, like,

4790
01:38:48,416 --> 01:38:49,458
I don't know, like, I'm

4791
01:38:49,458 --> 01:38:50,250
not suggesting I'm

4792
01:38:50,250 --> 01:38:51,500
not suggesting people do this,

4793
01:38:51,500 --> 01:38:52,458
but I'm just

4794
01:38:52,458 --> 01:38:53,166
trying to imagine

4795
01:38:53,166 --> 01:38:54,708
what some people might say

4796
01:38:54,708 --> 01:38:55,666
they would do is just,

4797
01:38:55,666 --> 01:38:56,250
well, I'm not

4798
01:38:56,250 --> 01:38:56,875
going to come back.

4799
01:38:56,875 --> 01:38:57,833
What they buy

4800
01:38:57,833 --> 01:38:59,666
Bitcoin and leave.

4801
01:38:59,666 --> 01:38:59,875
Yeah.

4802
01:38:59,875 --> 01:39:00,750
What are they going to do?

4803
01:39:00,750 --> 01:39:02,916
It's like

4804
01:39:02,916 --> 01:39:03,833
they could potentially

4805
01:39:03,833 --> 01:39:05,125
like they did with Paul Hogan.

4806
01:39:05,125 --> 01:39:06,750
Like if you, if you didn't

4807
01:39:06,750 --> 01:39:08,458
declare a capital gain

4808
01:39:08,458 --> 01:39:10,791
upon exiting,

4809
01:39:10,791 --> 01:39:12,541
they could get you when you

4810
01:39:12,541 --> 01:39:13,625
go back into the country.

4811
01:39:13,625 --> 01:39:14,333
So, you know,

4812
01:39:14,333 --> 01:39:15,208
you got to think of that.

4813
01:39:15,208 --> 01:39:16,250
But otherwise

4814
01:39:16,250 --> 01:39:16,958
some people may

4815
01:39:16,958 --> 01:39:19,541
well just decide to say,

4816
01:39:19,541 --> 01:39:20,750
screw this, I'm going.

4817
01:39:20,750 --> 01:39:22,791
And they go. And living

4818
01:39:22,791 --> 01:39:23,708
in a better,

4819
01:39:23,708 --> 01:39:24,708
much more favorable

4820
01:39:24,708 --> 01:39:26,458
tax jurisdiction.

4821
01:39:26,458 --> 01:39:26,750
Yeah,

4822
01:39:26,750 --> 01:39:27,166
hopefully

4823
01:39:27,166 --> 01:39:27,958
there will be some game

4824
01:39:27,958 --> 01:39:28,458
theory there

4825
01:39:28,458 --> 01:39:29,208
that'll make governments

4826
01:39:29,208 --> 01:39:30,750
decide, hey, we're losing.

4827
01:39:30,750 --> 01:39:31,666
And that's not happening

4828
01:39:31,666 --> 01:39:32,000
as well.

4829
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,291
And other countries are losing

4830
01:39:33,291 --> 01:39:35,750
millionaires. UK UK is now.

4831
01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:36,375
Let me see.

4832
01:39:36,375 --> 01:39:36,875
This is not

4833
01:39:36,875 --> 01:39:37,708
the first isn't happening.

4834
01:39:37,708 --> 01:39:38,458
Many other countries

4835
01:39:38,458 --> 01:39:39,708
are losing it.

4836
01:39:39,708 --> 01:39:40,541
And these are the people

4837
01:39:40,541 --> 01:39:41,583
that are already

4838
01:39:41,583 --> 01:39:42,833
shouldering the majority

4839
01:39:42,833 --> 01:39:44,041
of the tax burden.

4840
01:39:44,041 --> 01:39:45,833
So you lose those people

4841
01:39:45,833 --> 01:39:47,250
and you have to increase taxes

4842
01:39:47,250 --> 01:39:48,750
even more on those who remain,

4843
01:39:48,750 --> 01:39:49,958
which then incentivizes

4844
01:39:49,958 --> 01:39:51,291
more people to leave.

4845
01:39:53,666 --> 01:39:54,916
So there's,

4846
01:39:54,916 --> 01:39:56,375
an ideal point on the,

4847
01:39:56,375 --> 01:39:57,333
the level curve,

4848
01:39:57,333 --> 01:39:58,041
I think it's called

4849
01:39:58,041 --> 01:39:59,208
where they say

4850
01:39:59,208 --> 01:40:00,208
the ideal amount

4851
01:40:00,208 --> 01:40:01,125
you can tax before

4852
01:40:01,125 --> 01:40:03,291
you disincentivize people from

4853
01:40:03,291 --> 01:40:04,250
creating anything

4854
01:40:04,250 --> 01:40:04,958
that can be taxed

4855
01:40:04,958 --> 01:40:06,458
in the first place.

4856
01:40:06,458 --> 01:40:07,875
But, yeah,

4857
01:40:07,875 --> 01:40:08,583
these are problems

4858
01:40:08,583 --> 01:40:09,375
that I think

4859
01:40:09,375 --> 01:40:10,875
Bitcoin can help us solve.

4860
01:40:10,875 --> 01:40:13,875
I think once,

4861
01:40:14,833 --> 01:40:17,125
Bitcoin, you can

4862
01:40:17,125 --> 01:40:20,000
it is very hard to confiscate

4863
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:21,000
from people.

4864
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:22,125
It's not, confiscated.

4865
01:40:22,125 --> 01:40:24,708
Well, you could be held

4866
01:40:24,708 --> 01:40:25,708
and then if there's a

4867
01:40:25,708 --> 01:40:26,250
they've got you,

4868
01:40:26,250 --> 01:40:27,583
they can potentially coerce

4869
01:40:27,583 --> 01:40:28,750
you into.

4870
01:40:28,750 --> 01:40:30,208
That's where sort of

4871
01:40:30,208 --> 01:40:31,041
trading Bitcoin

4872
01:40:31,041 --> 01:40:31,833
privacy is very

4873
01:40:31,833 --> 01:40:34,833
important being,

4874
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:35,875
that's a whole topic

4875
01:40:35,875 --> 01:40:36,708
that we often deal with.

4876
01:40:36,708 --> 01:40:38,000
It made ups.

4877
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:39,625
You can maybe in future

4878
01:40:39,625 --> 01:40:41,083
podcasts get people on to talk

4879
01:40:41,083 --> 01:40:41,708
more deeply

4880
01:40:41,708 --> 01:40:44,708
about those aspects.

4881
01:40:45,041 --> 01:40:46,041
But there are many

4882
01:40:46,041 --> 01:40:47,208
tools available to help

4883
01:40:47,208 --> 01:40:48,750
increase your privacy.

4884
01:40:48,750 --> 01:40:49,583
Bitcoin because you,

4885
01:40:50,708 --> 01:40:51,833
there are many reasons why

4886
01:40:51,833 --> 01:40:52,583
not just that

4887
01:40:52,583 --> 01:40:54,208
you might not want all

4888
01:40:54,208 --> 01:40:55,916
and sundry knowing,

4889
01:40:55,916 --> 01:40:56,666
what your bitcoin

4890
01:40:56,666 --> 01:40:58,125
holdings are,

4891
01:40:58,125 --> 01:40:58,875
not the least of

4892
01:40:58,875 --> 01:40:59,833
which is your own

4893
01:40:59,833 --> 01:41:01,625
personal safety.

4894
01:41:01,625 --> 01:41:03,291
Yeah.

4895
01:41:03,291 --> 01:41:04,666
And, there are certainly tools

4896
01:41:04,666 --> 01:41:06,916
that will enable that.

4897
01:41:06,916 --> 01:41:07,791
I think that's a whole.

4898
01:41:07,791 --> 01:41:08,333
Yeah. You're right.

4899
01:41:08,333 --> 01:41:09,208
That's a whole other

4900
01:41:09,208 --> 01:41:10,833
podcast episode.

4901
01:41:10,833 --> 01:41:13,375
Yeah.

4902
01:41:13,375 --> 01:41:14,333
All right, well,

4903
01:41:14,333 --> 01:41:15,750
let's wrap up here.

4904
01:41:15,750 --> 01:41:16,875
Thanks so much for coming

4905
01:41:16,875 --> 01:41:17,791
on, JP.

4906
01:41:17,791 --> 01:41:18,500
I've really enjoyed

4907
01:41:18,500 --> 01:41:19,166
having you on.

4908
01:41:19,166 --> 01:41:20,250
I've learned a lot from you,

4909
01:41:20,250 --> 01:41:23,000
so I'm very excited.

4910
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:24,375
I think we'll go all the best

4911
01:41:24,375 --> 01:41:26,208
with the future podcasts and,

4912
01:41:26,208 --> 01:41:27,625
looking forward to seeing

4913
01:41:27,625 --> 01:41:29,083
who else is going to be on.

4914
01:41:29,083 --> 01:41:30,208
That's it for this week

4915
01:41:30,208 --> 01:41:31,916
on the Honest Money Show.

4916
01:41:31,916 --> 01:41:34,250
Big thanks to be to check out

4917
01:41:34,250 --> 01:41:35,166
why more Aussies

4918
01:41:35,166 --> 01:41:36,500
are choosing them at future

4919
01:41:36,500 --> 01:41:37,375
Root.com Dot

4920
01:41:37,375 --> 01:41:38,708
Edu and shout

4921
01:41:38,708 --> 01:41:39,750
out to our listeners

4922
01:41:39,750 --> 01:41:40,916
and found to where you can

4923
01:41:40,916 --> 01:41:43,375
earn subs just by tuning in.

4924
01:41:43,375 --> 01:41:44,875
If you appreciate the way

4925
01:41:44,875 --> 01:41:46,250
we cut through the noise,

4926
01:41:46,250 --> 01:41:47,125
you can support us

4927
01:41:47,125 --> 01:41:48,000
directly via

4928
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:48,916
the QR code

4929
01:41:48,916 --> 01:41:50,458
in the episode notes.

4930
01:41:50,458 --> 01:41:51,583
Until next week,

4931
01:41:51,583 --> 01:41:52,875
take care of yourself

4932
01:41:52,875 --> 01:41:53,583
and your money.