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Morgan Franklin: Earlier this
week, I was in between

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recordings for a podcast that I
do on location at an office

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building, and a man walks in for
the regular business this office

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conducts, and he's asking about
the podcast equipment and what

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we're doing. And this happens,
I'd say, a few times a day when

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we're recording the podcast in
office, so I usually don't think

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that much of it. But this guy
sits down, and after he asked me

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about the equipment, he says, So
do you make any money off of it?

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And of course, this made me
laugh, not because of the actual

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question, but because, usually
we're not so straightforward

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about asking people how we're
making money. I live in the

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south, and usually this is not
something that someone would ask

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the first time that they meet
you. So naturally, I'm laughing,

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and I say, you know, most of the
money that we make goes back

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into producing the show and
trying to grow it. So then, of

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course, as this conversation
pretty much always goes, he

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launches into a 10 minute pitch
to me about the podcast that he

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has been brooding on over the
past five years. This

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conversation inspired me to make
this episode because while most

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of us understand the possibility
of making money podcasting, we

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don't fully understand the kind
of podcast that makes money.

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According to captivate.fm only
35% of podcasters will ever make

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a dime from podcasting, and
honestly, I thought that it

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would be way lower in this
episode. We'll talk about the

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two different kinds of podcasts
that actually make money. How to

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better align your podcast with
one of these two strategies and

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why so many podcasters are never
able to monetize their podcast.

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Hello and welcome to podcast for
profit. My name is Morgan

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Franklin. I'm a Podcast
Producer, strategist and

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educator. This podcast will help
you create and grow a podcast

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that cuts through the noise of
social media and speaks directly

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to your target audience. If
you're ready to create a podcast

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that will align you with the
experts in your industry,

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position yourself as a trusted
leader and create another source

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of revenue for your business.
You're in the right place. I

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live in a smallish town in
Tennessee. I'd say about 40,000

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residents, give or take. Growing
up, we had several different

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locally owned grocery stores, a
few big name stores, but we all

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more or less lived in harmony
together. Over the past 10

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years, I've seen almost every
mid sized, locally owned grocery

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store close expansion of our big
name grocery stores, and, you

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know, the entrance of a few
micro farm to table markets,

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those boutique, kind of tiny
little grocery stores, basically

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either big and cheap stores that
have everything you would need,

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or small and expensive and very
selective options. And to me,

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this is the perfect comparison
to podcasts that make money you

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have your big name, broad
coverage, podcasts like Joe

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Rogan, call her daddy, Mel
Robbins, and then you have much

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more niche, specialized
podcasts, like, for example, the

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podcast that you're listening to
right now. All these podcasts

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make money, but they make money
for different reasons and appeal

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to much different audiences.
Normally, there are two kind of

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podcasts that make money. The
first is the commercially

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popular mainstream podcast that
is reaching a broad audience,

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and I'd say, gets at least
100,000 downloads on new

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episodes in the first 24 hours.
Again, that's podcasts like new

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heights with Travis, Kelce,
Conan O'Brien Huberman lab

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podcast consistently ranking in
the top 200 of the all category

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on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Basically the celebrities of

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podcasting, the other kind of
podcast that makes money besides

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these really well known
podcasts, are the specific niche

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industry or interest specific
podcast. For example, I think

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about all the marketing podcasts
that I love to listen to,

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especially as someone who works
in marketing and digital media,

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these podcasts are very
important to me. I like them

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just as much as the big name
podcasts, but they're probably

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never going to be on the Apple
top 200 All Categories list,

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right? And that's okay. They're
probably never gonna get 100,000

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downloads in 24 hours. And
again, that's okay. That doesn't

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stop them from making a full
time income and growing a team

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around this podcast. Let me use,
for example, one of my favorite

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podcasts about learning how to
market and grow your business on

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Pinterest. It's called simple
pin podcast with Kate all and

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Kate is incredible. If you guys
don't listen to this podcast,

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you should, especially if you
want to get into Pinterest. But

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she has so many ways that she
monetizes her podcast, and this

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is just by me listening to her
podcast, knowing this and. Not

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really. I mean, I've never
bought a service through her,

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but I know that she has digital
products. I know she has

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education, templates,
worksheets, workbook coaching.

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You can hire her team to manage
your Pinterest or to run ads on

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your Pinterest. They do it all.
And I'm sure that she has a very

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lucrative business and podcasts
that work in tandem together.

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The story that I was telling you
earlier in the episode about the

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guy that came into the office
where I was recording that

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podcast isn't connected to a
business. It gets about 40,000

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downloads per month and doesn't
have any kind of business or

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service that we could sell.
However, we've been very

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intentional about knowing our
audience and keeping that

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audience local and specific. We
know exactly who is listening to

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this podcast every week, and
that's why we're able to sell ad

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slots to advertisers and make
money off this podcast, even

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though it's not as big as those
big name ones, and we're not

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selling anything through a
business. You either need to

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have a wide enough audience that
brands want to advertise with

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you because you have a big
audience, or you need to have a

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specific enough audience that
brands see the value in knowing

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exactly who listens to your
podcast. You know, if I could

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tell every podcaster who wanted
to make money podcasting one

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thing, it'd be that either you
work hard enough and get lucky

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enough to have a huge podcast
where you need to be specific

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enough to know exactly what kind
of audience you have. This is

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why, when people tell me that
they want to start a podcast

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because they think they're
funny, or their friends have

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tons of stories, or whatever it
may be, my first question always

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is, who will listen to this
podcast. That's the reverse

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engineering practice that every
podcaster and content creator

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needs to exercise. So let's talk
about strategy number one, which

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is basically the rock star
approach. You're going to grow a

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big enough following and have
enough people listening to your

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podcast that brands want to have
blanket advertisements with you.

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Great. The first thing that you
need to do is focus on at least

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four social media outlets, and
whether that's Facebook,

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LinkedIn, Tiktok, Instagram,
whether it's x, Pinterest,

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substack, YouTube, I don't
really care, but I'd be working

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and building on those platforms,
posting every day, multiple

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times a day, trying to get as
many followers and engagement as

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you can. If you want a podcast
with a big following, you need

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to either have a full time
content creator or be a full

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time content creator yourself.
And I know that that's not easy

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and it's not cheap, but there is
no one, except maybe someone

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that was already recognized as a
celebrity that can start a

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podcast and grow that podcast
without having any other way to

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promote it. You have to use all
the tools in your tool belt. The

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second prong of this approach is
guesting on other shows and

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getting the best possible guest
you can get on your show if I

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was going to try to get a top
ranking show, I would be

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reaching out to PR teams
managers, trying to get any kind

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of celebrity or celebrity
adjacent person that would give

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me the time of day. You need
star power and you need name

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recognition. This is not a time
for having your friends as

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guests. Lastly, even if I was
trying to get a wide audience, I

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would still be niching down.
Let's see. For example, Candace

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Owens, on the day that I'm
recording this episode, she's

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eighth on the Apple podcast
overall chart. If you don't know

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who Candace is, she's a
conservative podcaster. She

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talks about politics and pop
culture and conservative

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ideologies, she never misses an
opportunity to capitalize on

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political friction here in the
United States, she is trying to

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reach a wide audience, but she's
making her opinions and

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interests well known. I've said
this many times, but a friend to

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all is a friend to none. And if
you want to grow quickly on

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social media or digital media,
share your opinions now, that's

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much easier said than done, and
if you're sharing political

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opinions, you are going to get
backlash, no matter which side

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it's coming from. But if you
want to speak directly to an

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audience like you, share what
you think going for the broader

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reach podcast approach is the
most difficult, and isn't one

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that I normally recommend to
clients, unless you have an

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audience following you from
somewhere else, or you are a

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celebrity in some capacity, it's
like saying that you're going to

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be an influencer, and it might
happen, but there is a much

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greater probability that it will
not so what would I recommend to

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you, if you aren't a celebrity
of some kind already, I'd

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recommend that reverse
engineering approach, where you

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ask yourself who your listeners
are and why they're listening.

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Why are they coming back every
week? What value are you?

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Providing for them. What
specific interest or industry do

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you want to represent through
your podcast? What do you want

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to be known for? All these
questions can be answered of a

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new or existing podcast, and I
don't want you to think because

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you already have a podcast
that's not serving a specific

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audience, that you can't become
a podcast that answers all these

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questions well, because you
absolutely can, and I would love

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to help you. I'll include the
information for working with me

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in the episode description, but
I have strategy calls that are

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made for this exact reason. As I
said in the beginning of the

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episode, 65% of podcasters never
make a dime from podcasting, and

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I'd say most of them go into
debt making the podcast. You

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will never just make money from
podcasting. And I think that's a

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really big misconception that's
never going to just magically

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happen. I think the day and age
we're living in, we think if we

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just make enough content that
eventually it will be worth

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money. But that's just not true.
There's no build it, and they

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will come guarantee. And you
know, all that being said, I

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truly believe that every
podcaster can make money

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podcasting, every podcast can be
a success if you know how, and

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you stay persistent in trying,
if you want to work with me, one

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on one to see how your podcast
could monetize, or what you need

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to do to start building an
audience that's monetizable. My

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contact information is in the
episode description. Or you can

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send me a message at Morgan, at
Morgan Franklin, dot media, I

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love to hear from you, and as
always, I can't wait to listen

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to your podcast. Hey, thank you
so much for joining me on this

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episode. If you enjoyed the
podcast and you'd like to hear

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00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:49,230
more episodes like this one, go
ahead and subscribe to the show.

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New episodes air every Monday
morning. And if you found this

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episode valuable and you want to
help other business owners and

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00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:58,260
podcasters, will you leave me a
five star review. It helps the

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show rank higher in the charts
and brings more entrepreneurs

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the information they need to
start making money on their

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podcast.