WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:11.040 I'm Travis Bader, and this is the 00:00:11.040 --> 00:00:12.540 Silver Core Podcast. 00:00:13.950 --> 00:00:16.290 Silver Core has been providing its members 00:00:16.290 --> 00:00:18.840 with the skills and knowledge necessary to be 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:21.750 confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 00:00:21.750 --> 00:00:24.390 20 years, and we make it easier for people to 00:00:24.390 --> 00:00:26.820 deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.690 --> 00:00:30.570 If you enjoy the positive and educational content 00:00:30.570 --> 00:00:34.140 we provide, please let others know by sharing, 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:37.350 commenting, and following so that you can join 00:00:37.350 --> 00:00:39.630 in on everything that Silver Horse stands for. 00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:42.540 If you'd like to learn more about becoming 00:00:42.540 --> 00:00:44.580 a member of the Silver Core Club and 00:00:44.580 --> 00:00:47.810 community, visit our website at Silvercore.ca 00:00:52.275 --> 00:00:54.644 I'm joined today by Dan Fritter of 00:00:54.644 --> 00:00:57.705 caliber, meg.ca and Nicholas Johnson 00:00:57.735 --> 00:00:59.985 of the gun blog.ca. 00:01:00.045 --> 00:01:03.585 And we were requested to put together 00:01:03.589 --> 00:01:07.065 something talking about the proposed bill C 00:01:07.065 --> 00:01:09.854 21, what that means, what it looks like. 00:01:09.914 --> 00:01:11.775 Uh, hopefully answer some questions that 00:01:11.775 --> 00:01:13.065 are out there from our perspective. 00:01:13.065 --> 00:01:17.055 Anyways, Nicholas, Dan, welcome. 00:01:17.115 --> 00:01:19.354 Thank you for availing, availing yourself 00:01:19.354 --> 00:01:22.335 to this happy Travis for hosting this. 00:01:23.325 --> 00:01:26.685 So Bill C 21, we're getting a whole bunch of 00:01:26.690 --> 00:01:27.735 questions coming through. 00:01:27.740 --> 00:01:30.345 We're seeing some information, some 00:01:30.345 --> 00:01:33.134 misinformation, a lot of panic. 00:01:33.255 --> 00:01:35.235 Uh, we're seeing how it's already 00:01:35.235 --> 00:01:38.445 affecting businesses even though it hasn't 00:01:38.445 --> 00:01:39.525 been implemented yet. 00:01:40.005 --> 00:01:41.445 Uh, and we're seeing. 00:01:41.955 --> 00:01:44.625 Uh, some businesses, some organizations using 00:01:44.625 --> 00:01:48.795 it as a marketing tool and some political games 00:01:48.795 --> 00:01:49.725 as well being played. 00:01:50.205 --> 00:01:52.604 Hopefully, you know, the politics side of 00:01:52.664 --> 00:01:54.345 has never been my forte. 00:01:55.155 --> 00:01:57.345 I know you guys have more background 00:01:57.350 --> 00:01:58.725 there, more insight. 00:01:58.725 --> 00:02:01.065 Hopefully we can answer some of these questions 00:02:01.065 --> 00:02:03.435 and maybe, maybe shed a little bit of light 00:02:03.435 --> 00:02:04.395 on what's going on. 00:02:05.804 --> 00:02:10.995 Uh, Dan, you've been doing a lot of work 00:02:11.715 --> 00:02:14.025 with your magazine, putting together 00:02:14.025 --> 00:02:15.105 information for people. 00:02:15.105 --> 00:02:17.445 I know we put a link in our last, uh, newsletter 00:02:17.445 --> 00:02:19.035 that went out for people and some of the 00:02:19.035 --> 00:02:20.084 action that they can do. 00:02:20.475 --> 00:02:21.945 What have you been seeing? 00:02:22.605 --> 00:02:24.075 Where do you see things going? 00:02:24.285 --> 00:02:25.275 What can people do? 00:02:26.644 --> 00:02:26.935 I. 00:02:28.350 --> 00:02:30.030 To, to break from tradition. 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:32.340 Um, I'm gonna sound like a bit of an optimist 00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:34.200 and say it, it looks like it's working. 00:02:34.920 --> 00:02:35.670 Um, mm-hmm. 00:02:36.510 --> 00:02:39.240 , because what I saw over the weekend and 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.670 growing into Monday with all the other 00:02:41.670 --> 00:02:43.350 stuff that was going on, like you referenced 00:02:43.350 --> 00:02:46.230 the organizations and whatnot, was, uh, with 00:02:46.235 --> 00:02:49.140 the most important of 'em, the NDP liberals. 00:02:49.140 --> 00:02:51.660 And the block is we started to see 00:02:51.660 --> 00:02:53.160 some splits come up. 00:02:53.250 --> 00:02:55.570 Um, we started to see Charlie Angus 00:02:55.575 --> 00:02:56.490 from the ndp. 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:57.900 We started to see. 00:02:59.130 --> 00:03:00.870 You blache from the block actually respond 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:03.420 directly to a journalist on Twitter saying they 00:03:03.425 --> 00:03:05.850 do take issue with some of these amendments. 00:03:05.850 --> 00:03:08.550 Now, obviously as a gun owner, we wish 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:10.440 that they would've taken a a similar 00:03:10.440 --> 00:03:11.760 issue with Bill C 21. 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:14.160 Since the foundation problem is the same, 00:03:14.165 --> 00:03:15.780 it only impacts licensed gun owners. 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:18.420 But nonetheless, um, as a gun owner, you 00:03:18.690 --> 00:03:20.160 have to learn to take what you can get to 00:03:20.165 --> 00:03:21.120 a certain degree. 00:03:21.480 --> 00:03:23.550 Um, and in that particular regard, 00:03:23.550 --> 00:03:24.750 we're starting to see the NDP and the 00:03:24.755 --> 00:03:25.620 block come around. 00:03:25.710 --> 00:03:28.200 Uh, and I think that is probably. 00:03:28.585 --> 00:03:31.435 Direct result of a lot of the advocacy we've 00:03:31.440 --> 00:03:32.635 seen gun owners do. 00:03:32.635 --> 00:03:35.245 We've seen people sending out masses of 00:03:35.245 --> 00:03:36.565 three, 400 letters. 00:03:36.655 --> 00:03:40.705 Um, I know Offa has laid claim to a half a million 00:03:40.705 --> 00:03:42.385 letters going to On. 00:03:42.865 --> 00:03:43.165 Yeah. 00:03:43.555 --> 00:03:46.195 To, and when you consider that of a's Scope, offa 00:03:46.375 --> 00:03:48.685 clarified their scope and said they've sent a 00:03:48.685 --> 00:03:49.615 half a million letters. 00:03:49.615 --> 00:03:51.205 Their members have sent a half million letters 00:03:51.505 --> 00:03:54.625 to Ontario MPS and MPPs. 00:03:55.285 --> 00:03:58.075 So that's a huge footprint for 00:03:58.075 --> 00:04:00.145 a relatively small audience. 00:04:00.475 --> 00:04:02.575 And I think probably they're seeing similar 00:04:02.575 --> 00:04:04.495 things happen in the NDP and the block. 00:04:04.495 --> 00:04:06.505 So that pressure that's going out 00:04:06.505 --> 00:04:08.545 there, that, that, I think it's working. 00:04:08.545 --> 00:04:10.704 I think we're starting to see, um, hopefully 00:04:10.704 --> 00:04:12.235 some pushback taking form of that. 00:04:12.235 --> 00:04:14.485 Now, obviously it helps when Carrie Price 00:04:14.485 --> 00:04:16.375 steps into the ring and goes, Hey, this doesn't 00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:17.245 make a lot of sense. 00:04:17.245 --> 00:04:19.135 But I don't think gun owners should, 00:04:19.195 --> 00:04:21.055 should sell themselves short on this either. 00:04:21.055 --> 00:04:22.615 Like the NDP and the Block, were 00:04:22.615 --> 00:04:24.415 already starting to walk this back. 00:04:24.719 --> 00:04:27.390 Before Carrie Price ever made his, his post that 00:04:27.390 --> 00:04:28.140 was already happening. 00:04:28.140 --> 00:04:30.570 We, we were seeing that happening on Friday. 00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:33.210 So they're starting to feel the pressure. 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:35.760 Um, and I think that is the, the fracture 00:04:35.765 --> 00:04:37.170 that gun owners should be looking for. 00:04:37.175 --> 00:04:39.539 We should be making guns a nonpartisan issue. 00:04:39.545 --> 00:04:41.370 We should be looking for practical solutions, 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:42.360 not political ones. 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:45.090 Um, and this is a great step towards that. 00:04:45.150 --> 00:04:46.890 I think personally, you know, that's the, 00:04:47.190 --> 00:04:49.950 that's the, the silver lining in this not very 00:04:49.950 --> 00:04:52.080 good cloud, but that's what I'm looking for. 00:04:53.039 --> 00:04:55.289 So if we back it up for the listeners, cuz 00:04:55.289 --> 00:04:57.840 some people will be following this day by 00:04:57.844 --> 00:05:00.390 day watching as new advancements happen. 00:05:00.690 --> 00:05:02.039 Some people are just getting into the 00:05:02.039 --> 00:05:03.870 fray right now and they're saying, hold 00:05:03.870 --> 00:05:04.680 on, what's going on? 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.620 I heard they're coming after my hunting shotgun 00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:08.700 or my hunting rifle. 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:13.590 Um, if we back this up a little bit of where C 21 00:05:13.594 --> 00:05:15.390 kind of started and what it looked like and kind 00:05:15.390 --> 00:05:17.669 of what advance, what would that look like for 00:05:17.669 --> 00:05:18.659 the average individual? 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:21.510 What do you mean? 00:05:22.724 --> 00:05:25.995 ? Well, I, so C 21 initially started off 00:05:25.995 --> 00:05:29.474 with, uh, as an amendment for some Oh, gotcha. 00:05:29.505 --> 00:05:29.685 Okay. 00:05:29.685 --> 00:05:30.855 So C 21 started. 00:05:32.025 --> 00:05:33.285 Introduced, I mean, this is the second 00:05:33.285 --> 00:05:35.475 version of C 21 that's been introduced even 00:05:35.475 --> 00:05:37.185 so we could walk it back way farther, but 00:05:37.185 --> 00:05:39.345 for practical reasons, it was introduced as a 00:05:39.345 --> 00:05:41.715 bill aimed at freezing handgun sales primarily. 00:05:42.135 --> 00:05:43.725 Um, all, to be quite honest, it was a bill 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:46.365 aimed at getting votes because freezing handgun 00:05:46.370 --> 00:05:48.555 sales doesn't really have any public safety 00:05:48.555 --> 00:05:51.345 aims whatsoever anymore than adding more red 00:05:51.345 --> 00:05:53.145 flag laws does when you've got existing ones. 00:05:53.150 --> 00:05:56.265 So it was largely a political bill looking 00:05:56.265 --> 00:05:59.205 for political solutions to political problems. 00:06:00.195 --> 00:06:02.115 And now they've added what is fundamentally 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:03.975 the largest gun control act in 00:06:03.975 --> 00:06:04.995 Canadian history to it. 00:06:05.025 --> 00:06:07.455 It's a, it's a ban on all semiautomatic rifles. 00:06:07.875 --> 00:06:09.675 It doesn't include all Semitic shotguns 00:06:09.675 --> 00:06:11.655 by any stretch, but absolutely, pretty much 00:06:11.655 --> 00:06:13.725 any semiautomatic rifle is center fire unless 00:06:13.725 --> 00:06:15.915 you happen to be one of maybe the six people that 00:06:15.915 --> 00:06:19.785 own a sour S 3 0 3 with a two round integral meg 00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:22.335 and semiautomatic action, unless you own that one. 00:06:23.605 --> 00:06:24.985 You're kind of stuck with this. 00:06:24.985 --> 00:06:26.695 Yeah, so this is huge. 00:06:26.695 --> 00:06:29.515 I mean, C 68, all that other stuff, it 00:06:29.515 --> 00:06:31.045 didn't impact nearly as many rifles. 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:32.875 Imagine if in C 68 they just said it's 00:06:32.880 --> 00:06:34.015 a Semitic rifle band. 00:06:34.405 --> 00:06:36.955 It would've been, it would've been way bigger. 00:06:36.985 --> 00:06:38.005 And that's what they're doing now. 00:06:38.005 --> 00:06:41.605 So they've bolted on, you know, to what was 00:06:41.610 --> 00:06:42.655 effectively a mouse. 00:06:42.655 --> 00:06:43.775 They've added an elephant. 00:06:43.985 --> 00:06:45.235 Um, and they're just trying to sneak 00:06:45.235 --> 00:06:45.745 it in that way. 00:06:45.745 --> 00:06:50.665 It's, it's, um, but I think also too that that 00:06:50.670 --> 00:06:53.185 sneaking it in is also kind of the weakness. 00:06:53.245 --> 00:06:54.655 Like you have to kind of pull back 00:06:54.655 --> 00:06:56.155 if you take yourself outta the equation. 00:06:56.155 --> 00:06:58.525 And if you were to say as a, as an objective 00:06:58.530 --> 00:07:00.355 observer, and this is the first time I've done 00:07:00.355 --> 00:07:02.185 this particular thought, observe experiment. 00:07:02.185 --> 00:07:04.975 But if you thought academically, if you 00:07:04.975 --> 00:07:09.085 bypass all the democratic institutions, um, and you 00:07:09.090 --> 00:07:12.600 bypass all the normal, the rules, Bringing an 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:14.790 amendment like this in which normally it does 00:07:14.790 --> 00:07:17.760 meet some of the rules, but normally this would 00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:19.770 be asked, the minister would at least be asked 00:07:19.770 --> 00:07:22.110 to approach the committee and say, Hey, we wanna 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:22.890 change some stuff. 00:07:22.890 --> 00:07:24.540 Here's why they didn't do that at all. 00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:27.720 Um, it gives you a bit of faith in that, you know, 00:07:27.750 --> 00:07:28.200 that's again, mm-hmm. 00:07:28.440 --> 00:07:29.580 . If you're looking for silver linings, 00:07:29.580 --> 00:07:30.780 you look at this and you go, their biggest 00:07:30.785 --> 00:07:33.420 weakness was they didn't consult, they didn't 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:34.530 follow any process. 00:07:34.530 --> 00:07:36.390 And the process is what makes good law. 00:07:36.750 --> 00:07:38.970 The process is what creates consultation, 00:07:38.970 --> 00:07:40.320 creates committees, creates weaknesses, 00:07:40.530 --> 00:07:41.760 creates friction. 00:07:42.030 --> 00:07:43.980 So that one party in charge has a bit 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:45.840 of friction, has to automatically. 00:07:46.980 --> 00:07:49.380 Make some concessions to the other people. 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.600 Um, they didn't do that cuz they didn't want 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.500 any of that friction. 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.030 And now we're seeing that it kind of works. 00:07:54.030 --> 00:07:55.170 So I guess on the upside, you gotta 00:07:55.175 --> 00:07:57.000 think that maybe this is the system working 00:07:57.005 --> 00:07:58.740 in a really perverse and backwards way. 00:07:59.190 --> 00:08:01.560 Um, it, it shouldn't have to work this way. 00:08:01.890 --> 00:08:03.690 This feels like the safety net underneath 00:08:03.695 --> 00:08:05.220 the bridge that you already jumped off of 00:08:05.225 --> 00:08:07.740 catching you, um, more than it does any kind 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:08.700 of real safety thing. 00:08:08.700 --> 00:08:11.970 But, uh, I think, you know, it's, it's 00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:13.890 quite the progression if anyone's looking 00:08:13.890 --> 00:08:15.960 at it and going, how did C 21 go from not 00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:18.450 affecting me to, I can't take my bar outside? 00:08:18.450 --> 00:08:21.780 Well, a Tuesday, a couple weeks ago, 00:08:21.780 --> 00:08:22.380 that's how it happened. 00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:25.710 at, at the last moment there. 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:27.990 So C 21 essentially was, they're 00:08:27.990 --> 00:08:30.060 approaching pens now. 00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:32.390 C 21 hasn't been enacted into a. 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:35.731 No, it's, but the hand freeze in the committee 00:08:35.736 --> 00:08:37.260 phase, clause by clause. 00:08:37.260 --> 00:08:38.130 That's when they brought this in. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:39.450 Okay. 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:41.580 So it's the hand and freeze has 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:43.830 reached Royal Ascent according to the web? 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:43.980 No. 00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:47.490 So C 21 as a bill, it's gone through first 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:49.230 and second reading in the House of Commons. 00:08:49.680 --> 00:08:51.150 Um, generally untouched. 00:08:51.150 --> 00:08:53.130 So they first reading is when they just 00:08:53.130 --> 00:08:55.020 introduce it and it's the basic, like, I wanna 00:08:55.020 --> 00:08:56.370 make a law and this is what I'm thinking. 00:08:56.375 --> 00:08:57.570 And everyone goes, okay, that sounds like 00:08:57.570 --> 00:08:58.830 a good sentiment maybe. 00:08:58.830 --> 00:08:59.310 Sure, yeah. 00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:00.870 Then they do second reading where it gets 00:09:00.870 --> 00:09:01.710 a bit more serious. 00:09:01.710 --> 00:09:02.970 It's supposed to be more formal. 00:09:03.180 --> 00:09:04.290 They do that reading and then it's like, 00:09:04.295 --> 00:09:05.550 okay, we've adopted that, that's what 00:09:05.550 --> 00:09:06.510 they've done so far. 00:09:06.630 --> 00:09:07.680 Then it goes to committee. 00:09:07.770 --> 00:09:09.360 And the committee is comprised, the 00:09:09.365 --> 00:09:11.820 committee is, you'll hear it colloquially 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:13.080 referred to as secu. 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:15.210 It's the standing Committee on Public 00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:16.290 Safety in the house. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.000 Uh, there's another similar committee in 00:09:18.005 --> 00:09:19.440 the Senate that does the exact same job. 00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:21.330 The bill then went to the committee. 00:09:21.335 --> 00:09:22.260 The committee discussed it. 00:09:22.260 --> 00:09:23.400 They had a bunch of witnesses. 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:26.370 Called Forward for two weeks, I think. 00:09:26.430 --> 00:09:27.870 Was it, it was a relatively lengthy 00:09:27.870 --> 00:09:28.470 witness period. 00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:29.610 Nick would probably no longer cause he 00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:30.450 covered that at length. 00:09:30.450 --> 00:09:31.680 Mm-hmm. 00:09:31.681 --> 00:09:32.760 , um, Couple weeks. 00:09:32.910 --> 00:09:33.330 Yeah. 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:34.770 Maybe even worth, I think, yeah, 00:09:34.890 --> 00:09:35.910 maybe three length. 00:09:35.910 --> 00:09:38.520 It was a length, not as long as C 71 a 00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:40.950 few years ago, but a lot of witnesses. 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:41.670 Yeah. 00:09:41.670 --> 00:09:43.770 So it was out there for a couple weeks with 00:09:44.260 --> 00:09:45.570 everyone out there kind of chatting about it. 00:09:45.570 --> 00:09:48.120 And then, then after the committee goes forward 00:09:48.125 --> 00:09:49.650 with it, they, they finalize what's called 00:09:49.650 --> 00:09:51.540 clause by clause where they go through the 00:09:51.540 --> 00:09:53.130 bill, literally clause by clause, and they 00:09:53.130 --> 00:09:54.540 propose amendments to it. 00:09:54.540 --> 00:09:57.120 And that's where we're at now, where they've 00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:58.170 called all the witnesses. 00:09:58.175 --> 00:09:59.980 Everything has been discussed, and they're 00:10:00.260 --> 00:10:02.400 supposed to be kind of like, it's an amendment. 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:04.350 It's supposed to be a, a whittling, if you 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:05.490 will, not a complete. 00:10:05.714 --> 00:10:06.615 Restructuring. 00:10:07.844 --> 00:10:09.795 They kind of had all these witnesses and 00:10:09.795 --> 00:10:11.985 they went, well, you know, handgun free 00:10:11.985 --> 00:10:13.094 sounds great, but you know, it'd be better 00:10:13.185 --> 00:10:14.985 if we just ban all semiautomatic firearms. 00:10:14.985 --> 00:10:16.185 That'd be way cooler. 00:10:16.694 --> 00:10:20.145 . And, and now they're really, I mean from a 00:10:20.145 --> 00:10:22.425 democratic perspective, we can't go witnesses. 00:10:22.515 --> 00:10:24.225 So the SEC committee, if you wanted to view 00:10:24.285 --> 00:10:25.694 it from this really naive perspective, that 00:10:25.694 --> 00:10:27.314 these parliamentarians that are in the secu 00:10:27.525 --> 00:10:29.745 are, are truly coming at it from an open mind. 00:10:30.225 --> 00:10:31.365 They can't call witnesses anymore. 00:10:31.370 --> 00:10:33.405 So if they wanted to discuss this stuff with 00:10:33.405 --> 00:10:36.584 you, me, Nick, rod, whoever, they couldn't, 00:10:36.645 --> 00:10:37.937 they couldn't ask us to come up there and be 00:10:37.942 --> 00:10:39.584 like, Hey, let's, let's chat about this cuz let's 00:10:39.584 --> 00:10:42.165 restart the witness phase cuz we're completely 00:10:42.165 --> 00:10:44.355 rebuilding this bill and we need to revisit 00:10:44.355 --> 00:10:45.224 it from the ground up. 00:10:45.615 --> 00:10:47.685 And actually, one of the big things that's really 00:10:47.685 --> 00:10:51.135 been concerning to me is that from a parliamentary 00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:52.755 standard, when you bring a bill about, you have 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:55.574 to do various studies to make sure that it 00:10:55.574 --> 00:10:57.795 doesn't contravene the, the charter of 00:10:57.795 --> 00:10:58.515 rights and freedom. 00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:02.580 Um, a charter study was done on Bill C 21 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:03.450 was first introduced. 00:11:03.690 --> 00:11:05.550 It was determined to not break the charter 00:11:05.550 --> 00:11:07.170 because you don't have a right to a handgun. 00:11:07.170 --> 00:11:11.040 So of course it didn't, um, they didn't do 00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:12.330 another charter study. 00:11:12.660 --> 00:11:14.640 They haven't commissioned any consultation with 00:11:14.640 --> 00:11:15.600 indigenous people. 00:11:15.930 --> 00:11:17.340 They haven't done any of the things you would 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:20.460 have to do when you write a new law, when they 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:23.310 introduce this amendment, which effectively 00:11:23.310 --> 00:11:24.360 constitutes a new law. 00:11:24.870 --> 00:11:29.190 And in that regard, you know, it's if you, if 00:11:29.195 --> 00:11:31.350 you take a tiny law that does almost nothing, 00:11:31.355 --> 00:11:33.540 and you add a giant component that does so 00:11:33.545 --> 00:11:35.460 much more and you don't study whether or not 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:37.740 that that additional component contravenes 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.510 the charter, contravenes the digits rights. 00:11:40.110 --> 00:11:41.970 I mean, Dan Lloyd and the committee's 00:11:41.970 --> 00:11:43.560 made very good points that this entire 00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:45.600 law might contravene the UN declaration 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:46.080 of indigenous. 00:11:46.975 --> 00:11:49.755 the right smid people like it's cause cuz they 00:11:49.755 --> 00:11:51.135 have to be consulted on this stuff and 00:11:51.135 --> 00:11:52.005 they just were right. 00:11:52.125 --> 00:11:55.215 Like it was just no, we, we, we, and the comical 00:11:55.215 --> 00:11:57.255 part is like, to put in perspective, this is the 00:11:57.255 --> 00:11:59.415 government that won on this perspective of them 00:11:59.415 --> 00:12:02.564 being the champions of all these Rights Day. 00:12:02.564 --> 00:12:04.574 And Lloyd asked the committee, has anyone in 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:06.915 the liberal government asked anyone in the 00:12:06.915 --> 00:12:08.535 indigenous community if this law is gonna work 00:12:08.535 --> 00:12:10.335 or if it, you know, nevermind a full study. 00:12:10.335 --> 00:12:11.265 Has anyone even asked? 00:12:11.835 --> 00:12:13.935 And the witnesses from the Justice department 00:12:14.475 --> 00:12:18.074 who I say worked for the government, had the, had 00:12:18.074 --> 00:12:21.135 the gall, uh, to say no. 00:12:21.140 --> 00:12:24.555 We kind of decided for them in 2022 after all 00:12:24.555 --> 00:12:25.725 of this that's gone on. 00:12:25.755 --> 00:12:25.935 Wow. 00:12:26.564 --> 00:12:27.944 They literally said, well we kinda looked 00:12:27.944 --> 00:12:30.045 at it objectively, wrote a report as a 00:12:30.045 --> 00:12:32.175 bunch of white people that aren't indigenous. 00:12:32.865 --> 00:12:34.395 We kind of decided this was probably in 00:12:34.395 --> 00:12:35.265 their best interest. 00:12:35.819 --> 00:12:37.920 And it's like, wow, God. 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:41.310 The hypocrisy, it's, it's, it is truly galling 00:12:41.339 --> 00:12:44.010 in that Oxford dictionary sense of the word. 00:12:44.010 --> 00:12:47.280 Like stainless screw, aluminum metal kind of 00:12:47.285 --> 00:12:49.750 galling . Just painful. 00:12:50.250 --> 00:12:51.239 No one likes it. 00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:52.770 It's awful. 00:12:53.430 --> 00:12:55.859 Okay, so you go in the public safety website 00:12:55.859 --> 00:12:58.349 and they talk about the different items of 00:12:58.349 --> 00:13:00.839 the amendment, and some are gonna be coming in 00:13:00.839 --> 00:13:03.719 through oic, through ordering counsel and some 00:13:03.719 --> 00:13:04.949 through Royal Ascent. 00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:07.589 So since we've established that, 00:13:07.589 --> 00:13:09.329 they're trying to approach us by Royal 00:13:09.329 --> 00:13:11.369 Ascent, but it has yet to reach Royal Ascent. 00:13:11.400 --> 00:13:13.050 One of the questions that came up was, 00:13:13.979 --> 00:13:15.660 how come the handgun freezes in effect right 00:13:15.660 --> 00:13:16.530 now if it hasn't gone? 00:13:17.985 --> 00:13:20.055 , can I, uh, can I offer an opinion? 00:13:20.055 --> 00:13:20.745 Of course, Nicholas. 00:13:20.745 --> 00:13:20.805 Yeah. 00:13:20.985 --> 00:13:23.025 So, uh, first of all, I wanna, I wanna commend 00:13:23.055 --> 00:13:26.865 Daniel on his incredible, uh, optimistic tone 00:13:26.865 --> 00:13:28.305 and looking for the positive here. 00:13:28.305 --> 00:13:31.155 I I, and if I get down in negative, 00:13:31.365 --> 00:13:32.265 bring me back, man. 00:13:32.265 --> 00:13:32.925 Bring me back. 00:13:34.125 --> 00:13:37.095 . The, the, to your question about Bill C 21 00:13:37.095 --> 00:13:38.925 and the origins, there were, there were a few 00:13:38.925 --> 00:13:41.985 things that happened on May 30th, 2022. 00:13:42.045 --> 00:13:44.055 That's when the government announced 00:13:44.265 --> 00:13:46.214 their intentions of the current version 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:47.145 of Bill C 21. 00:13:47.535 --> 00:13:49.725 Part one was the intention for an order 00:13:49.725 --> 00:13:52.005 in counsel to kill the handgun market to make, 00:13:52.005 --> 00:13:54.915 to criminalize buying, selling, transporting, 00:13:55.005 --> 00:13:56.625 uh, bequeathing handguns. 00:13:56.865 --> 00:13:58.935 So they we're gonna do that by ordering counsel. 00:13:59.190 --> 00:14:00.540 That means executive decree. 00:14:01.140 --> 00:14:03.120 And part part two of that was they were going 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.570 to do it in legislation that's Bill C 21. 00:14:06.750 --> 00:14:08.220 So they announced both of those three 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:09.210 things on May 30th. 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:12.000 They also announced a third thing on May 30th 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.780 that they would add an amendment to expand 00:14:15.785 --> 00:14:18.510 their confiscations of shotguns and rifles. 00:14:19.260 --> 00:14:21.240 Remember back in May of 2020, they announced a 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.200 big confiscation on, uh, I'll call it AR fifteens 00:14:25.260 --> 00:14:28.740 and other, a lot of other semi-auto center fire mag 00:14:28.745 --> 00:14:30.390 fed rifles and shotguns. 00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:32.475 They said, so that, they did that in May, 00:14:32.475 --> 00:14:33.480 2020 on May 30th. 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.910 The third component of, of the confiscations 00:14:35.910 --> 00:14:37.350 was they're going to expand that 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:38.100 through an amendment. 00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:40.470 And that's what we're talking about now, is 00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:45.630 that giant, uh, amendment of, of uh, who knows 00:14:45.630 --> 00:14:47.220 how many hundreds of thousands I've seen 00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:50.040 numbers over a million of rifles and shotguns. 00:14:50.045 --> 00:14:51.900 So it's the expansion through that amendment, 00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:54.180 but that order in council to kill the 00:14:54.180 --> 00:14:56.040 handgun market that's already gone through. 00:14:57.314 --> 00:14:59.444 and now we're seeing into law the ordering 00:14:59.444 --> 00:15:01.635 council of May 20, 20 plus this huge expansion. 00:15:02.204 --> 00:15:02.744 Got it. 00:15:02.805 --> 00:15:03.944 It's a little misleading when you read the 00:15:03.944 --> 00:15:05.114 public safety website. 00:15:05.265 --> 00:15:07.005 It's, it's really, well, also, this is 00:15:07.005 --> 00:15:07.724 really interesting. 00:15:07.724 --> 00:15:10.604 I, I, I think that it's to, to, to expand 00:15:10.604 --> 00:15:12.135 on or add to what Daniel was just saying. 00:15:12.135 --> 00:15:15.555 It's, I think this is, it's devious, it's sneaky 00:15:15.614 --> 00:15:18.584 this last minute stuff, whether it's legal or 00:15:18.584 --> 00:15:21.584 not, because I think it probably is legal by some 00:15:21.584 --> 00:15:24.734 interpretations, but even if it's le, even if it 00:15:24.734 --> 00:15:26.564 is legal, it's sneaky. 00:15:26.864 --> 00:15:28.364 This is not how it should be. 00:15:28.844 --> 00:15:31.064 And I also want to, to commend you again, for, 00:15:31.069 --> 00:15:33.795 for bringing this to your podcast, because just to 00:15:33.795 --> 00:15:36.915 give an anecdote on, on page views@thegunblog.ca 00:15:37.635 --> 00:15:40.125 I was just looking at this after the May 30th 00:15:40.125 --> 00:15:43.005 announcement in the week after, I looked 00:15:43.005 --> 00:15:44.925 at the page views and my page views after 00:15:44.925 --> 00:15:47.204 this announcement of, uh, November 22nd when 00:15:47.204 --> 00:15:49.214 they unleashed the, they published the, 00:15:49.219 --> 00:15:50.234 uh, the amendment. 00:15:51.074 --> 00:15:52.844 I've got four times as many page views 00:15:52.844 --> 00:15:53.444 this time around. 00:15:53.810 --> 00:15:54.229 Wow. 00:15:54.229 --> 00:15:56.099 So just as an indicator of how broad the 00:15:56.099 --> 00:15:58.079 interest is, how broad the concern is. 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:00.360 And another point that Wes Winkle made 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:02.310 of the, the president of the Canadian 00:16:02.314 --> 00:16:04.500 Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association. 00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:04.860 Mm-hmm. 00:16:05.104 --> 00:16:07.439 , he pointed out that the May 30th announcement, 00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:09.180 that was the Prime Minister, that was a, 00:16:09.180 --> 00:16:10.860 that was a Telegraph media announcement. 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.120 There were press releases. 00:16:12.390 --> 00:16:14.459 The Prime Minister had lined up the media. 00:16:14.670 --> 00:16:16.079 They were all there with their cameras 00:16:16.079 --> 00:16:17.880 and their notepads to, to broadcasts. 00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:19.619 There was huge media coverage of the May 00:16:19.619 --> 00:16:21.869 30th announcement, the November 22nd 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:22.770 announce announcement. 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:24.240 There was practically no media. 00:16:24.540 --> 00:16:26.880 So this huge interest that we're seeing is 00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:28.530 predominantly grassroots. 00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:30.300 It's people reading Caliber. 00:16:30.300 --> 00:16:31.770 It's the gun blog, it's Silver Core, 00:16:31.770 --> 00:16:33.209 it's it's Iko. 00:16:33.209 --> 00:16:35.490 It's, it's, it's, it's this grassroots and the 00:16:35.490 --> 00:16:38.339 organizations, you know, the other gun orgs, it's 00:16:38.339 --> 00:16:42.329 completely grassroots and the level of interest. 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.660 Uh, the half the a h right, the half 00:16:45.660 --> 00:16:47.010 million letters to mps. 00:16:47.010 --> 00:16:47.880 It's, it's just staggering. 00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:51.180 It's unlike anything that I have ever 00:16:51.180 --> 00:16:51.900 seen personally. 00:16:51.900 --> 00:16:53.460 I've only been following this a few years, but 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:55.080 from what I'm hearing, it's unlike anything 00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:56.340 anyone has ever seen. 00:16:57.210 --> 00:16:59.610 And this is where like I'll interject and say 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.650 like, it's interesting as someone that's been 00:17:03.650 --> 00:17:04.800 follow us for a long time, because I mean, 00:17:04.800 --> 00:17:07.470 Nick can probably attest and, and you as 00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:09.611 well, Travis from your background, that in a lot 00:17:09.616 --> 00:17:12.240 of these things, when we see these bad policies 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.150 come out or we see these mistakes happen more 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:16.260 often than not, it's. 00:17:17.564 --> 00:17:18.944 To be quite honest, it's usually something 00:17:18.944 --> 00:17:22.514 attributable to ignorance where it's, it's someone 00:17:22.514 --> 00:17:24.675 that's a, and I don't mean this, like people 00:17:24.675 --> 00:17:26.234 are gonna hear this misinterpret that I've 00:17:26.234 --> 00:17:28.125 got some like, I mean, no animosity, this is just 00:17:28.129 --> 00:17:29.084 people doing their jobs. 00:17:29.594 --> 00:17:32.445 You have a public sector employee who has worked 00:17:32.445 --> 00:17:34.094 their way through maybe agriculture, any other 00:17:34.094 --> 00:17:36.645 department, and they see an opening in the next 00:17:37.125 --> 00:17:38.115 classification of job up. 00:17:38.115 --> 00:17:39.794 Cuz I mean all these public sector stuff is 00:17:40.205 --> 00:17:42.554 incredibly hierarchical so they just kind of 00:17:42.584 --> 00:17:45.225 plug them into the next module up in the, in 00:17:45.225 --> 00:17:46.365 the earnings category. 00:17:46.365 --> 00:17:48.074 And it's over in public safety and it happens 00:17:48.074 --> 00:17:49.514 to be in the policy shop and it happens 00:17:49.514 --> 00:17:50.354 to be with firearms. 00:17:50.834 --> 00:17:51.495 Do you have any experience? 00:17:51.495 --> 00:17:53.594 Well no, but you've been in the, to be quite 00:17:53.594 --> 00:17:55.905 honest in the situation, I've never worked for 00:17:55.905 --> 00:17:58.304 the government, but I, I can see a situation 00:17:58.304 --> 00:17:59.774 where like, it's more important that you have 00:17:59.774 --> 00:18:01.514 knowledge of how the government works than 00:18:01.514 --> 00:18:03.735 how guns work to work for the government on 00:18:03.735 --> 00:18:05.594 guns, if that makes sense to people. 00:18:06.014 --> 00:18:06.104 Mm-hmm. 00:18:06.530 --> 00:18:08.594 , um, cause probably maybe the government 00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:10.334 thinks it's easier to teach guns than it 00:18:10.334 --> 00:18:12.885 is to teach the very complicated bureaucracy 00:18:12.885 --> 00:18:14.024 of it is public policy. 00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:17.310 And then you get these people to get into these 00:18:17.310 --> 00:18:20.160 roles that don't have the experience and they're 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.320 being told various things by various people 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:23.520 and they come up with something they think 00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:25.410 meets these goals, which is to be quite blunt, 00:18:25.415 --> 00:18:26.640 what I think this was. 00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:27.960 Um mm-hmm. 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:29.340 and the politicians go, yeah, okay, 00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:31.200 well the experts say this will work. 00:18:31.205 --> 00:18:32.820 And I think basic group thing happens where 00:18:32.820 --> 00:18:35.040 the, the bureaucrats on the inside are referred 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:35.790 to as the experts. 00:18:35.790 --> 00:18:37.320 For long enough, the politicians believed 00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:38.880 them, forgetting that these people 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.230 were promoted in through agriculture 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:42.810 and don't really have expertise per se. 00:18:43.410 --> 00:18:44.340 And then everyone just goes, yeah, 00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:44.850 this looks good. 00:18:44.850 --> 00:18:45.600 The experts say, so. 00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.650 And that's what we see in committee. 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.030 I mean that last committee hearing, 00:18:48.360 --> 00:18:51.270 um, last week where we started to see Murray 00:18:51.275 --> 00:18:53.790 Smith and justice witnesses effectively, 00:18:53.790 --> 00:18:57.030 directly kind of going against what one another 00:18:57.030 --> 00:18:58.830 were saying with what would or would not be 00:18:58.830 --> 00:19:01.530 banned, where justice was saying, well, it's, if 00:19:01.530 --> 00:19:03.660 the gun was originally designed with a five 00:19:03.665 --> 00:19:06.719 round magazine, Which is not how Murray Smith 00:19:06.719 --> 00:19:08.310 has been interpreting these words, right, 00:19:08.399 --> 00:19:09.629 for his entire career. 00:19:10.139 --> 00:19:10.439 Right. 00:19:10.590 --> 00:19:13.230 You start to go, this doesn't, I know there's, 00:19:13.230 --> 00:19:15.030 and again, there's treads on some people. 00:19:15.034 --> 00:19:16.679 There's a lot of people who think there's 00:19:16.679 --> 00:19:18.780 victimhood and animosity and acrimonious. 00:19:19.110 --> 00:19:21.240 I think it's just the government kind of being 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:22.919 dumb, to be quite blunt. 00:19:23.219 --> 00:19:25.320 I think they kind of went, Hey, bureaucrats, 00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:26.580 come up with a solution to help 00:19:26.580 --> 00:19:27.659 us ban these guns. 00:19:27.870 --> 00:19:28.980 This was the solution. 00:19:29.159 --> 00:19:31.110 They rolled with it and they never looked 00:19:31.110 --> 00:19:32.879 at it, quite honestly. 00:19:32.899 --> 00:19:35.730 Okay, so maybe, maybe, maybe let's, let's say 00:19:35.730 --> 00:19:38.370 being dumb, but this amendment that came on 00:19:38.370 --> 00:19:41.550 is what, 300, like 30 or 13, something like that. 00:19:41.554 --> 00:19:43.169 Pages long. 00:19:44.129 --> 00:19:45.540 That would take a while to put together. 00:19:46.274 --> 00:19:49.425 And the execution of putting that forward 00:19:49.665 --> 00:19:51.705 doesn't sound like it was coming from a 00:19:51.705 --> 00:19:52.695 place of ignorance. 00:19:53.024 --> 00:19:55.425 Like the idea of that we'll just tag this 00:19:55.425 --> 00:19:57.435 on at the very end where we can bypass. 00:19:57.585 --> 00:19:59.205 But I guess that depends on who you're, who 00:19:59.205 --> 00:20:00.855 you, depends on who you call an expert. 00:20:00.855 --> 00:20:03.885 Cause I mean that the 330 pages is largely based 00:20:03.889 --> 00:20:05.415 on if we're being honest. 00:20:05.415 --> 00:20:07.034 Cause I also think that as gun, we've 00:20:07.034 --> 00:20:08.295 gotta be honest, it's a huge amendment. 00:20:08.325 --> 00:20:09.195 Three 30 pages. 00:20:09.284 --> 00:20:10.425 It's really easy to say they planned 00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:12.615 this out forever cuz the length, sure. 00:20:12.615 --> 00:20:15.375 We could distill this down to 10 pages if 00:20:15.375 --> 00:20:16.365 you wanted to, right? 00:20:16.365 --> 00:20:18.645 Like you take out all the AR 15 variance, 00:20:18.645 --> 00:20:19.725 you probably left to the document 00:20:19.730 --> 00:20:20.625 that's maybe 50 page. 00:20:20.629 --> 00:20:22.665 You take out the French side, that's 50% of it 00:20:22.665 --> 00:20:24.555 and while you're left to 20 and you take out 00:20:24.555 --> 00:20:28.125 all the other, you know, well Visa 58 known as 00:20:28.155 --> 00:20:31.155 you maybe got two pages, you know of an actual 00:20:31.155 --> 00:20:33.075 synopsis of here's what we're looking at banning. 00:20:33.855 --> 00:20:35.565 That's obviously Murray's head list. 00:20:35.565 --> 00:20:38.115 We've all known that it's from the 2020 thing, 00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:39.075 it's been circulated. 00:20:39.315 --> 00:20:40.245 It's also. 00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:42.540 Very much parallel to the list that's been 00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:45.000 circulated by Poly and the Coalition 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:45.600 for Gun Control. 00:20:45.870 --> 00:20:49.530 The notable gun on the list that you gotta look 00:20:49.530 --> 00:20:52.379 for to draw that parallel is the Robinson Arms Xcr. 00:20:52.889 --> 00:20:54.179 It's never been involved in a shooting. 00:20:54.689 --> 00:20:55.950 It's, they're not common. 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:57.210 They're, they're pretty uncommon. 00:20:57.210 --> 00:20:58.030 Even back in the day, they weren't common, 00:20:58.810 --> 00:21:00.960 um, never been involved in high profile 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:01.560 shooting whatsoever. 00:21:01.560 --> 00:21:02.939 It's been involved in all of these bands 00:21:02.939 --> 00:21:04.770 ever since, and it's been on poly's lists 00:21:04.770 --> 00:21:07.260 and gun controls lists since day one. 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:10.260 When you hear Marco Medino say things where 00:21:10.260 --> 00:21:12.689 he says like, oh, mark Lapine was captured 00:21:12.689 --> 00:21:15.540 by a gun registry at Polytechnic, no he 00:21:15.540 --> 00:21:17.909 wasn't, but that's what Poly San S had told him. 00:21:18.330 --> 00:21:20.280 So you can kind of just use some pretty 00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:22.860 elementary deductive reasoning skills. 00:21:22.860 --> 00:21:24.120 Go well, they're just consulting with Poly 00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:27.240 Scania, which is not an expert on guns or an 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.280 expert on what happened at Polytechnic, which 00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:31.500 doesn't necessarily, you know, everything 00:21:31.504 --> 00:21:33.179 about a car crash is making a car expert. 00:21:33.510 --> 00:21:34.139 Exactly. 00:21:34.145 --> 00:21:35.939 I've used used that one before, just cuz they've 00:21:35.939 --> 00:21:36.629 been hit in the face. 00:21:36.629 --> 00:21:37.860 It doesn't make me a boxer. 00:21:37.919 --> 00:21:38.250 Right. 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:38.460 It's, yeah. 00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:42.360 Um, So what about the prankster? 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:43.800 I understand I haven't read through 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:44.640 the whole list. 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.320 There is the prankster, not a little 22. 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:46.920 Is that on the list? 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.970 There it is. 00:21:48.060 --> 00:21:50.070 That was on the May that was already listed 00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:51.180 in May, 2020, I think. 00:21:51.300 --> 00:21:52.860 The Mossberg 7 0 2 Prankster. 00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:54.450 So the 7 0 2. 00:21:54.455 --> 00:21:57.600 The seven 15 The Blaze previously, cuz that's 00:21:57.630 --> 00:22:00.600 essentially a prankster with a, um, AK style 00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.380 plastic wrapper. 00:22:01.860 --> 00:22:03.330 Yeah, I just put a plastic wrapper on the 00:22:03.330 --> 00:22:05.250 thing I, from what I understand, the very 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:07.580 original ones that came to, I've actually 00:22:07.585 --> 00:22:08.850 seen photos of 'em where they've taken 00:22:08.850 --> 00:22:09.720 'em apart in videos. 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.360 And you've had a 7 0 2 plink, sir, in the 00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:15.390 middle or, yeah, it's, its like every other 22. 00:22:15.540 --> 00:22:17.070 You just, what do they, what do they have 00:22:17.070 --> 00:22:18.240 against that rifle? 00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:20.820 Now this rim fires are on there. 00:22:21.750 --> 00:22:23.970 Well, and I gotta say some credit goes to 00:22:23.970 --> 00:22:25.980 Tim thoroughly over on Twitter, who's done 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:28.020 some extensive work on the definition of 00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:30.450 variant and filed his own AIPs and whatnot. 00:22:30.850 --> 00:22:31.340 Okay. 00:22:31.345 --> 00:22:33.000 Um, so credit goes to Tim on that variant. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.440 Apparently can include guns that 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:35.060 look like other guns. 00:22:35.595 --> 00:22:36.495 It's as simple as that. 00:22:36.795 --> 00:22:38.205 The government has decided that the 00:22:38.205 --> 00:22:40.035 ver variant includes guns that look 00:22:40.040 --> 00:22:40.695 like other guns. 00:22:40.755 --> 00:22:42.915 So if gun A looks like gun B, well I 00:22:42.915 --> 00:22:44.025 guess they're variance of one another. 00:22:44.565 --> 00:22:47.055 So, and Murray Smith's testimony in the federal 00:22:47.060 --> 00:22:49.215 court case is also from, I think October of, I 00:22:49.215 --> 00:22:51.795 think it's 20, gosh, I'm having a unsure 00:22:51.795 --> 00:22:53.085 if it's 2021 or 2020. 00:22:53.085 --> 00:22:55.035 But his testimony under cross-ex examination, 00:22:55.515 --> 00:22:58.545 like Daniel's saying like variant is anything 00:22:58.545 --> 00:23:01.125 that Murray Smith and his colleagues want it to be. 00:23:01.125 --> 00:23:01.395 Right. 00:23:01.755 --> 00:23:03.285 It's not, you remember that, that huge issue 00:23:03.285 --> 00:23:06.225 that we've been dealing with for, uh, for years. 00:23:07.305 --> 00:23:07.455 Yeah. 00:23:07.455 --> 00:23:08.175 There was two terms. 00:23:08.175 --> 00:23:10.065 What was a variant and the other one was a 00:23:10.070 --> 00:23:12.375 modified version of, I think were the two terms. 00:23:12.375 --> 00:23:12.585 Okay. 00:23:12.885 --> 00:23:15.585 That would never be, uh, can't be defined. 00:23:16.035 --> 00:23:17.355 They can't be defined and they won't be 00:23:17.355 --> 00:23:19.035 defined because they wanna leave it open 00:23:19.035 --> 00:23:22.065 to, but I think like, and this is again, not 00:23:22.065 --> 00:23:24.555 to interrupt, but like no screw to interrupt 00:23:24.555 --> 00:23:25.035 cuz I'm doing it. 00:23:25.035 --> 00:23:25.665 I'll own it anyways. 00:23:25.725 --> 00:23:26.115 Go ahead. 00:23:26.265 --> 00:23:28.335 Like this definitions thing, people get 00:23:28.335 --> 00:23:29.775 hung up on this cuz I know it's very. 00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:32.340 Common in the gun community to get hung 00:23:32.340 --> 00:23:33.570 up on the variant thing. 00:23:33.570 --> 00:23:35.669 People very, very insensitive in 00:23:35.669 --> 00:23:36.300 the gun community. 00:23:36.540 --> 00:23:39.659 I would ask people to also recognize like 00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:41.970 these definitions, the definition of 00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:44.129 the term hunting gun is equally nebulous. 00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:46.439 Like it is a gun that you hunt with. 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:47.909 So when they say, oh, well it's banning 00:23:47.909 --> 00:23:49.320 hunting guns, well of course it is. 00:23:49.530 --> 00:23:51.780 Because any gun that you could legally take into a 00:23:51.780 --> 00:23:54.570 field and shoot an animal with is a hunting gun. 00:23:55.139 --> 00:23:55.439 Like it. 00:23:55.439 --> 00:23:56.730 It's as simple as that. 00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:58.200 Like when, when people say, well, what's 00:23:58.200 --> 00:23:58.770 an assault rifle? 00:23:58.770 --> 00:24:01.500 Well, assault rifle does have a canonized 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.649 definition, a rifle intended for military 00:24:04.655 --> 00:24:06.360 uses primarily with a fully automatic 00:24:06.365 --> 00:24:08.550 fire switch that is a assault rifle. 00:24:08.790 --> 00:24:10.560 You detach a magazine, typically 30 rounds, 00:24:10.560 --> 00:24:11.159 et cetera, et cetera. 00:24:11.159 --> 00:24:12.780 If you look it up in the Oxford English Language 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.270 Dictionary, it's there most crucially, if you 00:24:15.270 --> 00:24:18.659 look it up in the APA or the um, journalist 00:24:18.659 --> 00:24:19.950 one, what's that one? 00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:21.360 Canadian Press or Associated Press? 00:24:21.419 --> 00:24:22.350 Associated Press, yeah. 00:24:22.350 --> 00:24:23.294 Associated Press has a definition 00:24:23.820 --> 00:24:24.570 for assault rifle. 00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:26.500 It is a fully automatic rifle period. 00:24:27.135 --> 00:24:27.675 That's it. 00:24:27.825 --> 00:24:29.985 Hunting rifle has no such definition. 00:24:30.615 --> 00:24:32.775 And I guess the crucial thing, like when they 00:24:32.775 --> 00:24:34.335 say this is an assault weapon ban, we're not 00:24:34.335 --> 00:24:35.175 banning hunting rifles. 00:24:35.475 --> 00:24:37.485 There's no freaking difference. 00:24:37.545 --> 00:24:39.525 They're all semiautomatic rifles. 00:24:39.645 --> 00:24:40.365 The end. 00:24:40.715 --> 00:24:42.855 I, I would also suggest that we not 00:24:43.095 --> 00:24:46.925 use those terms unless as acceptance specific 00:24:46.930 --> 00:24:51.965 circumstances, because today in 2022, now you 00:24:51.965 --> 00:24:53.085 guys are the technicians, so I'm stepping 00:24:53.085 --> 00:24:54.015 outside my lane here. 00:24:54.015 --> 00:24:58.185 But the, the idea that some firearms are 00:24:58.185 --> 00:24:59.385 different than other firearms, there's, 00:24:59.415 --> 00:25:00.375 well, I guess what I'm trying to say is 00:25:00.375 --> 00:25:01.845 they're all made in the same factories. 00:25:02.055 --> 00:25:03.945 They're all designed by the same engineers. 00:25:04.245 --> 00:25:07.245 They all come through the same, uh, well, 00:25:07.245 --> 00:25:09.345 factories, retail channels or I guess 00:25:09.345 --> 00:25:12.075 even who, um, and the people who use it 00:25:12.075 --> 00:25:12.795 might be different. 00:25:13.095 --> 00:25:14.955 But to make a distinction that, oh, 00:25:14.955 --> 00:25:15.915 this is a military gun. 00:25:15.915 --> 00:25:16.665 This is a hunting gun. 00:25:16.665 --> 00:25:17.835 This is a ranching gun, this is a 00:25:17.835 --> 00:25:19.575 farming gun, this is a self-defense gun. 00:25:20.175 --> 00:25:23.265 I don't think that type of language 00:25:23.295 --> 00:25:25.185 serves us or, or even. 00:25:26.639 --> 00:25:29.340 It might be useful for some purpose, but 00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:31.410 it, it doesn't have a, it's not, it's not 00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:32.910 a useful distinction, I don't think. 00:25:34.770 --> 00:25:37.530 No, and I think, again, to expand on that, I 00:25:37.530 --> 00:25:39.240 don't like the, this discussion around what 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.310 guns are has been one that's been kind of 00:25:41.310 --> 00:25:42.030 problematic for me. 00:25:42.030 --> 00:25:44.800 It's been frustrating for me because, um, 00:25:45.810 --> 00:25:48.060 what guns are designed to do is to launch a 00:25:48.060 --> 00:25:49.560 projectile full stop. 00:25:49.590 --> 00:25:51.720 And I think a lot of gun owners, if anyone's 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.100 listening to this, whenever someone brings 00:25:53.100 --> 00:25:54.629 that up and says, well, what's a, you know, 00:25:54.635 --> 00:25:55.440 we got a ban ease. 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.760 They're designed to do blank. 00:25:57.450 --> 00:26:00.510 If whatever blank is is not throw a rock at 00:26:00.510 --> 00:26:02.610 high speed down range accurately and reliably, 00:26:02.850 --> 00:26:03.990 the answer is incorrect. 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:06.270 Cause that's all, like, I know, I literally 00:26:06.270 --> 00:26:08.610 have talked to people that design guns. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.190 And if you go to Colt Canada, they say that, 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:12.960 no, we don't design these to do anything 00:26:12.965 --> 00:26:16.110 other than go bang, make the, the bullet 00:26:16.110 --> 00:26:18.450 hit where it's aiming and do it reliably. 00:26:18.629 --> 00:26:20.190 And then the other added. 00:26:20.715 --> 00:26:23.685 Design parameters or things like light, like 00:26:23.715 --> 00:26:25.845 whether or not it's lightweight, is it heavy? 00:26:25.965 --> 00:26:26.985 How long is the barrel? 00:26:26.985 --> 00:26:27.945 It's basic stuff. 00:26:27.945 --> 00:26:30.915 But guns are designed to go bang and shoot. 00:26:31.125 --> 00:26:31.665 That's it. 00:26:31.725 --> 00:26:32.625 Guns are designed to shoot. 00:26:33.075 --> 00:26:35.175 What you shoot at is where the person 00:26:35.175 --> 00:26:35.835 enters into it. 00:26:35.835 --> 00:26:37.905 And that's, that's a whole different metric. 00:26:37.905 --> 00:26:40.545 And I think this whole assault, assault 00:26:40.545 --> 00:26:43.785 style hunting gun, these definitions do 00:26:43.785 --> 00:26:45.705 a tremend disservice to distract from that, 00:26:45.705 --> 00:26:47.115 that they are just guns. 00:26:47.445 --> 00:26:48.765 They can be tremendously dangerous 00:26:48.765 --> 00:26:49.395 in the wrong hands. 00:26:49.395 --> 00:26:50.235 Absolutely. 00:26:50.475 --> 00:26:52.335 That's why we invested heavily in this massive 00:26:52.335 --> 00:26:54.015 system to keep them out of the wrong hands. 00:26:54.255 --> 00:26:55.755 Why are we now investing heavily in 00:26:55.755 --> 00:26:57.975 specific kinds of guns in the right hands? 00:26:57.975 --> 00:26:58.755 It doesn't make sense. 00:26:59.715 --> 00:27:01.125 They call it an assault vehicle. 00:27:01.185 --> 00:27:02.685 This one's an assault vehicle cuz it was 00:27:02.685 --> 00:27:04.985 used or it's got X weight or capacity, 00:27:05.235 --> 00:27:06.495 it's painted black. 00:27:06.765 --> 00:27:07.365 Mm yeah. 00:27:07.370 --> 00:27:08.985 Or like we've got leadership style 00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:10.905 government doesn't necessarily mean we've 00:27:10.910 --> 00:27:12.765 got a functioning government either. 00:27:14.325 --> 00:27:14.715 Travis. 00:27:14.715 --> 00:27:17.175 I'd also like to come, uh, just to also to zoom 00:27:17.175 --> 00:27:20.880 out here to, um, , I think a lot of gun owners 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.610 were surprised by what happened, uh, when the, 00:27:23.610 --> 00:27:26.340 when this amendment to Bill C 21 was introduced 00:27:26.370 --> 00:27:27.150 or, or published. 00:27:27.550 --> 00:27:31.470 And I think that's also unfortunate because we 00:27:31.470 --> 00:27:33.810 had huge signs, both, both in the short term. 00:27:33.810 --> 00:27:35.850 We have a government under the Justin Truda, 00:27:35.850 --> 00:27:38.820 liberals and Justin Truda himself, who is very, uh, 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:41.640 clearly obviously hostile to, uh, to gun owners. 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:43.050 He's campaigned three times now. 00:27:43.050 --> 00:27:44.190 He's won three elections with a 00:27:44.190 --> 00:27:46.710 message of prohibitions and confiscations. 00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:48.840 So the, the fact that this happened 00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:49.860 shouldn't be a surprise. 00:27:50.310 --> 00:27:52.140 On May 30th, the government said they 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.850 were planning an amendment to expand the 00:27:53.855 --> 00:27:55.830 confiscations, so it shouldn't be a surprise 00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:56.820 from that point of view. 00:27:57.270 --> 00:28:00.240 And bigger picture, back in C 68 of the 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.270 ninth of 1995, the the Firearms Act, the the 00:28:03.270 --> 00:28:05.670 Anti Firearms Act has. 00:28:06.870 --> 00:28:07.919 Or let me rephrase that. 00:28:07.919 --> 00:28:09.959 C 68 has, uh, an amendment to the criminal 00:28:09.959 --> 00:28:13.530 code that allowed cabinet to ban any gun that it 00:28:13.530 --> 00:28:16.110 wants any time if cabinet doesn't think it's 00:28:16.110 --> 00:28:18.240 reasonable for hunting or sporting purposes. 00:28:18.689 --> 00:28:22.469 So the minute that was in the law, we should 00:28:22.475 --> 00:28:24.209 have known, and a lot of guys who paid attention 00:28:24.209 --> 00:28:26.600 back then did That's way before my time, way 00:28:26.600 --> 00:28:27.270 before I was interested. 00:28:27.270 --> 00:28:29.699 But I'm, I'm relying on stories that have 00:28:29.699 --> 00:28:30.479 been related to me. 00:28:30.959 --> 00:28:32.729 Anybody who was paying attention should know 00:28:32.729 --> 00:28:34.560 that, that the fact that that was in the criminal. 00:28:35.745 --> 00:28:37.665 And the fact that all gun owners are regulated 00:28:37.665 --> 00:28:40.095 by the criminal code meant it was not a 00:28:40.095 --> 00:28:41.685 matter of if, it was a matter of when. 00:28:42.075 --> 00:28:42.225 Right. 00:28:42.225 --> 00:28:44.415 So that plus Trudeau saying he's, uh, 00:28:44.685 --> 00:28:46.725 cracking down, he's adding prohibitions 00:28:46.725 --> 00:28:47.685 and confiscations. 00:28:48.465 --> 00:28:50.295 So I can understand people would be upset 00:28:50.295 --> 00:28:52.515 or angry about what happened, uh, on 00:28:52.515 --> 00:28:55.335 November and November 22nd, 2022 when the 00:28:55.335 --> 00:28:56.085 amendment came out. 00:28:56.085 --> 00:28:57.945 But nobody should be surprised. 00:28:58.035 --> 00:28:58.245 Right. 00:28:58.245 --> 00:28:59.205 The writing's on the wall. 00:28:59.235 --> 00:28:59.415 Yeah. 00:28:59.445 --> 00:29:01.845 It's been on the wall for, for either decades 00:29:01.845 --> 00:29:02.835 or months, but mm-hmm. 00:29:03.075 --> 00:29:03.135 . Yeah. 00:29:03.705 --> 00:29:05.085 There's also another thing that I just 00:29:05.090 --> 00:29:06.525 want to add to that, that, and, and this 00:29:06.525 --> 00:29:07.605 is being positive. 00:29:07.605 --> 00:29:09.795 I think that what we're seeing now, the 00:29:09.795 --> 00:29:11.835 thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands 00:29:11.835 --> 00:29:15.195 who are watching the SEC U committee in the 00:29:15.195 --> 00:29:18.225 House of Commons debate this bill and who are 00:29:18.225 --> 00:29:19.635 paying attention to the policy at all. 00:29:19.635 --> 00:29:21.405 Cuz there I think there are a lot of people who 00:29:21.405 --> 00:29:22.185 are paying attention. 00:29:22.190 --> 00:29:24.045 It's serving as a very valuable. 00:29:24.899 --> 00:29:29.460 Political education about how policy is made, how 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:33.659 the legislative process works, and going back 00:29:33.810 --> 00:29:35.520 right to the beginning of the things Daniel was 00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:37.590 mentioning about this last minute amendment. 00:29:37.590 --> 00:29:39.510 After all the witnesses has come in, snuck 00:29:39.514 --> 00:29:42.000 in under the wire, all this stuff, um, 00:29:42.060 --> 00:29:45.260 introducing a massive amendment that was not 00:29:45.260 --> 00:29:46.260 presented to parliament. 00:29:46.710 --> 00:29:51.360 All this stuff is making people very suspect of 00:29:51.970 --> 00:29:54.600 this government and about government ethics and 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:55.649 the political system. 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.080 And I think that's actually dangerous 00:29:58.080 --> 00:30:00.600 because we need trust in politicians. 00:30:00.605 --> 00:30:02.970 We need trust in the system to function 00:30:02.970 --> 00:30:03.690 as a society. 00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:04.710 That's, that's my opinion. 00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.960 And this kind of stuff, the way it's being 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.210 done, nothing to do with firearms, just 00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:12.180 purely the procedural aspect is undermining 00:30:12.185 --> 00:30:14.520 trust in politicians and the political system. 00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:16.170 I think that's dangerous. 00:30:16.830 --> 00:30:17.850 Well said, Nicholas. 00:30:17.909 --> 00:30:21.389 I, I want to talk about the, the terms, 00:30:21.450 --> 00:30:22.860 uh, hunting guns and. 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:25.170 A assault weapon a little bit. 00:30:25.170 --> 00:30:27.490 But you know, one point on what you were 00:30:27.490 --> 00:30:30.270 just saying there, C 21 encompasses 00:30:30.270 --> 00:30:31.590 more than just firearms, doesn't it? 00:30:33.810 --> 00:30:36.390 I, the only aspect I paid attention to is firearms. 00:30:36.395 --> 00:30:37.680 But it sounds like you, it sounds like 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:38.430 you know something. 00:30:39.780 --> 00:30:41.730 Well, I know very, very little on this, 00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:43.290 but I think Daniel probably has a little 00:30:43.290 --> 00:30:45.480 bit more information covers before Airsoft. 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:46.650 You talk of the Airsoft. 00:30:48.510 --> 00:30:50.880 Yeah, I mean, it, it's obviously impacting 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:54.810 Airsoft and then broader reaching kind of brackets 00:30:54.810 --> 00:30:56.910 or, or parenthesis around firearms is the 00:30:56.910 --> 00:30:58.770 red flag laws and all the additional work 00:30:58.775 --> 00:31:02.220 around, um, exemptions for things like nuclear 00:31:02.250 --> 00:31:04.770 facility guards to carry AR fifteens 00:31:04.770 --> 00:31:05.550 and stuff like that. 00:31:05.550 --> 00:31:08.010 Because apparently AR fifteens are the 00:31:08.015 --> 00:31:10.350 only tool that is acceptable for our 00:31:10.355 --> 00:31:11.970 nuclear facilities to be defended with. 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:13.080 But you can't have one. 00:31:13.800 --> 00:31:16.170 Um, yeah, the biggest thing is airsoft. 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.400 Um, it bans airsoft. 00:31:17.629 --> 00:31:18.120 Okay. 00:31:18.125 --> 00:31:18.720 That's all there is to it. 00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:19.650 There's no other way to put it. 00:31:19.800 --> 00:31:20.639 I mean, it doesn't ban it. 00:31:20.639 --> 00:31:23.190 I mean, being a big glib there, but, um, it 00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:24.330 basically bans anything. 00:31:24.360 --> 00:31:25.590 It's a replica firearm. 00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:27.930 And if anyone's familiar with Airsoft, uh, 00:31:27.930 --> 00:31:30.210 airsoft is all about, for most people, about 00:31:30.210 --> 00:31:32.760 Milsom, it's about the simulation aspect. 00:31:32.970 --> 00:31:33.060 Mm-hmm. 00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:36.930 . Um, but you can't really simulate, uh, those 00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:40.230 situations if you've got some funky nerf 00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:44.490 looking space do da that you, you stick the, the 00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:46.770 BBS in the side of, or something like it's, you 00:31:46.770 --> 00:31:47.760 know, kind of ruins it. 00:31:47.760 --> 00:31:50.400 So, and plus too, this is something that Canadian 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.379 gunners have to realize cuz it's, it's where 00:31:52.385 --> 00:31:55.740 airsoft and gun owners overlap significantly. 00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:57.150 We're not a big market. 00:31:58.020 --> 00:31:59.220 Canada is not a significant 00:31:59.220 --> 00:31:59.879 airsoft market. 00:31:59.879 --> 00:32:01.170 We are not a significant gun market. 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.100 Full stop. 00:32:02.760 --> 00:32:03.900 There's no other way to put it. 00:32:04.060 --> 00:32:05.730 I, I used to argue this point when I 00:32:05.730 --> 00:32:07.800 was 10 years ago and doing the industry, I 00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:09.540 was gung ho Canada's big, no we're not. 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:11.580 Like they sell more guns in Texas than 00:32:11.580 --> 00:32:12.330 they do in Canada. 00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:12.930 Mm-hmm. 00:32:13.340 --> 00:32:15.450 . And in terms of Airsoft globally, there are other 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:16.920 bigger markets by far. 00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:20.100 Um, what the liberals are looking at doing 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:22.350 ostracizes, the Canadian market for both. 00:32:23.070 --> 00:32:25.410 Uh, it requires Canadian airsoft people to find 00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:27.330 a product that does not currently exist 00:32:27.540 --> 00:32:30.900 on the market today to practice Airsoft 00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:32.100 as they currently do. 00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:33.570 So they're either gonna have to change their 00:32:33.570 --> 00:32:36.300 behavior to, to meet the law, not that their 00:32:36.305 --> 00:32:37.890 behavior's currently criminal, they're gonna 00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:40.560 have to change their currently law abiding 00:32:40.590 --> 00:32:43.020 currently entirely unharmful behavior 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:46.410 to be unharmful and law abiding some more 00:32:46.770 --> 00:32:49.170 with different stuff because no one's gonna 00:32:49.170 --> 00:32:50.010 build guns for them. 00:32:50.190 --> 00:32:51.180 And it's the same as Canada. 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:54.000 I've seen a few people kinda say on social 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.320 media, well, I guess we're gonna have to 00:32:55.325 --> 00:32:56.250 redesign Mag Wells. 00:32:56.255 --> 00:32:58.350 We're gonna have to, no, it's not gonna happen. 00:32:58.350 --> 00:32:58.770 Guys. 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:01.800 Like, like designing a magazine. 00:33:02.205 --> 00:33:03.735 Is one of the most expensive parts 00:33:03.735 --> 00:33:06.195 of designing a gun cuz it's sees a ton 00:33:06.195 --> 00:33:06.945 of wear and tear. 00:33:07.215 --> 00:33:09.525 It's very diverse in terms of your metrics 00:33:09.525 --> 00:33:11.115 where things have to line up, measurements, 00:33:11.115 --> 00:33:11.535 you name it. 00:33:11.535 --> 00:33:13.035 It's very, very complicated. 00:33:13.335 --> 00:33:14.895 Like to the point where a lot of gun designers 00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:17.265 say designing a reliable gun is as important as 00:33:17.265 --> 00:33:18.375 designing a reliable mag. 00:33:18.380 --> 00:33:19.605 Then you wrap a gun around it. 00:33:20.055 --> 00:33:20.175 Mm-hmm. 00:33:20.505 --> 00:33:22.425 , you're gonna really expect people to go out 00:33:22.430 --> 00:33:25.815 there and design a whole new magazine format that 00:33:25.815 --> 00:33:27.915 cannot be replicated anywhere in the world 00:33:27.915 --> 00:33:30.885 to hold more than five rounds for a market 00:33:30.885 --> 00:33:32.445 of 2.2 million people. 00:33:32.775 --> 00:33:32.955 Mm-hmm. 00:33:33.825 --> 00:33:35.355 , how many of those 2.2 million people are buying 00:33:35.355 --> 00:33:36.195 new guns every year? 00:33:36.255 --> 00:33:37.485 Well, not all 2.2. 00:33:37.515 --> 00:33:37.695 Okay. 00:33:37.695 --> 00:33:38.895 So let's take those people. 00:33:38.895 --> 00:33:40.305 Now you're getting to the market size, 00:33:40.605 --> 00:33:41.535 it just won't happen. 00:33:41.805 --> 00:33:42.015 Right? 00:33:42.015 --> 00:33:43.665 These laws will not be adapted. 00:33:44.610 --> 00:33:47.040 By the market, they will meet their objectives 00:33:47.040 --> 00:33:49.379 in that goal of ever greening legislation that 00:33:49.379 --> 00:33:51.810 will prevent gun owners from circumventing it 00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:53.490 because there's no point. 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:54.030 Mm-hmm. 00:33:54.270 --> 00:33:55.830 , but that's just the death nail of it. 00:33:55.889 --> 00:33:57.990 It doesn't, it's not, it's not like Airsoft 00:33:57.990 --> 00:33:59.680 is adapting, it's dying. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:33:59.960 Mm-hmm. 00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:00.810 , it's over. 00:34:00.840 --> 00:34:03.540 Like no one will make a semiautomatic rifle 00:34:03.540 --> 00:34:04.379 for the Canadian market. 00:34:04.560 --> 00:34:04.710 Yeah. 00:34:05.100 --> 00:34:07.050 If you're rich enough, you can go buy a 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:09.719 sour S 3 0 3, someone will sell you one. 00:34:09.989 --> 00:34:10.889 They're custom mate. 00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:13.259 You call 'em up, give 'em your name, they'll put it 00:34:13.264 --> 00:34:14.100 on the side of the gun. 00:34:14.370 --> 00:34:14.460 Mm-hmm. 00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.909 . But if you don't have five grand, well, 00:34:18.389 --> 00:34:19.739 I don't know, go buy something else. 00:34:19.745 --> 00:34:21.210 I guess that's what your dad would say. 00:34:21.330 --> 00:34:24.210 Like it's something else that's equally 00:34:24.210 --> 00:34:25.080 good but worse. 00:34:25.259 --> 00:34:26.580 You know, like follow up shot with 00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:27.449 a bolt action rifle. 00:34:27.570 --> 00:34:31.320 Never as good , you know, as an animal 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.969 advocate guy, this pisses me off to. 00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:36.000 . I think also, Dan, what you're saying is 00:34:36.940 --> 00:34:39.420 incredibly important and it answers the question 00:34:39.930 --> 00:34:42.300 that, that I've seen on social media that, that 00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.710 some people are asking and say, oh, I don't 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:45.390 have any guns that are on the list, so therefore 00:34:45.390 --> 00:34:46.470 this doesn't affect me. 00:34:47.220 --> 00:34:49.560 And that's, that's false. 00:34:49.560 --> 00:34:52.200 You might not be targeted by the confiscations 00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:53.160 directly yet. 00:34:53.160 --> 00:34:53.460 Yeah. 00:34:54.120 --> 00:34:55.380 But how are you affected? 00:34:55.385 --> 00:34:57.150 Well, every gun owner in Canada is affected 00:34:57.150 --> 00:35:01.080 because as the market shrinks, well, some 00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:02.670 manufacturers are going to simply 00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:03.450 say, you know what? 00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:05.700 The Canadian market is not worth it to us. 00:35:05.700 --> 00:35:07.650 That's gun manufacturers and that's ammo 00:35:07.650 --> 00:35:08.550 manufacturers. 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:09.870 So what does that mean? 00:35:09.875 --> 00:35:12.150 Well, you're a gun owner who, who shoots whatever. 00:35:12.150 --> 00:35:14.160 Well, you're used to buying your ammo at 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:15.120 your local gun store. 00:35:15.570 --> 00:35:17.040 Well, is your gun store gonna be able to 00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:18.030 make it through this? 00:35:18.540 --> 00:35:19.590 Maybe, maybe not. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.270 And let's say your local gun store 00:35:21.275 --> 00:35:21.900 makes it through it. 00:35:21.905 --> 00:35:23.550 And let's say you're used to going the day 00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:25.740 before you, before a hunt or the day before 00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:27.870 a a range event. 00:35:27.870 --> 00:35:29.970 A range day and, and stocking up on 00:35:30.060 --> 00:35:32.190 a couple boxes or, or dozens of boxes. 00:35:32.190 --> 00:35:36.150 Well, are the ammo manufacturers still gonna 00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:39.480 serve the country the way they do now because, and 00:35:39.540 --> 00:35:43.290 so we're talking about, um, some gun stores 00:35:43.290 --> 00:35:44.310 disappearing and dying. 00:35:44.490 --> 00:35:46.319 We're talking about gun clubs eventually 00:35:46.319 --> 00:35:47.250 disappearing and dying. 00:35:47.640 --> 00:35:49.620 So this, this confiscation is 00:35:49.620 --> 00:35:53.370 suppressing the, a huge gu there, the relatively, 00:35:53.569 --> 00:35:55.560 that's suppressing the Canadian gun market. 00:35:55.590 --> 00:35:57.180 And that has ramifications on 00:35:57.240 --> 00:35:59.970 everybody who is in the Canadian gun market. 00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:01.710 Every gun store, every gun club, 00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:02.549 every gun owner. 00:36:03.509 --> 00:36:05.040 I mean, to put that in perspective, if 00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:07.710 anyone's wanting to noble context on that 00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:10.950 from an industry side, imagine going to the 00:36:10.950 --> 00:36:12.840 range with a Lee Enfield. 00:36:13.770 --> 00:36:15.450 How many rounds are you probably taking 00:36:15.750 --> 00:36:16.500 for an afternoon? 00:36:16.529 --> 00:36:16.890 Let's see. 00:36:16.895 --> 00:36:18.299 You get there after lunch, you're gonna 00:36:18.299 --> 00:36:18.900 leave before dinner. 00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:20.310 You probably, if you're me and you're 00:36:20.310 --> 00:36:22.620 taking, let's say my K 31, I'm gonna 00:36:22.620 --> 00:36:23.880 call 50 rounds ample. 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.130 That's, I probably come home with half 00:36:26.130 --> 00:36:27.870 of them cuz I'm, I'm just there to. 00:36:28.395 --> 00:36:30.195 Plink away and, and practice breathing 00:36:30.195 --> 00:36:30.585 and all that. 00:36:31.125 --> 00:36:33.165 Now imagine you go into the range with an AR 00:36:33.165 --> 00:36:35.535 or WK 180 to practice three gun matches. 00:36:35.535 --> 00:36:36.345 How many rounds have you taken? 00:36:37.275 --> 00:36:37.725 Hundreds. 00:36:37.730 --> 00:36:37.935 Right? 00:36:37.995 --> 00:36:39.105 A lot more, right? 00:36:39.105 --> 00:36:39.165 Yeah. 00:36:39.585 --> 00:36:41.235 That's what the retailers are seeing. 00:36:41.745 --> 00:36:43.695 When you worry, when, when, when Nicholas 00:36:43.695 --> 00:36:45.465 says this is gonna affect your retailers. 00:36:45.645 --> 00:36:46.245 Think about that. 00:36:46.515 --> 00:36:46.815 Think what? 00:36:46.815 --> 00:36:48.075 Every gun owner, if you're listening to 00:36:48.075 --> 00:36:50.115 this in a big city like Toronto and you're 00:36:50.115 --> 00:36:52.215 talking about Al Fla or you're listening 00:36:52.215 --> 00:36:53.505 to in Red Deer and you're talking about 00:36:53.505 --> 00:36:55.125 a small shop there doesn't matter. 00:36:55.455 --> 00:36:57.495 Maybe the powder keg and Camloops could 00:36:57.495 --> 00:36:58.155 be Reliable Gun. 00:36:58.305 --> 00:37:01.035 This is a huge reduction in volume 00:37:01.935 --> 00:37:03.405 and that's gonna have dramatic effects. 00:37:03.525 --> 00:37:05.535 So even if you don't shoot these guns, let's 00:37:05.540 --> 00:37:07.335 say you're that guy that only shoots the lean 00:37:07.335 --> 00:37:11.025 field, well your box 3 0 3 is gonna go a hell of 00:37:11.245 --> 00:37:14.475 a lot more in terms of price because the lease 00:37:14.535 --> 00:37:17.085 that reliable gun, the powder, okay, everyone 00:37:17.085 --> 00:37:18.945 else has to pay, which has gone up tremendously 00:37:18.945 --> 00:37:21.165 cuz real estate under Trudeau, that lease 00:37:21.170 --> 00:37:22.005 still has to be paid. 00:37:22.395 --> 00:37:25.305 Except instead of being paid for on thousands 00:37:25.305 --> 00:37:27.705 of rounds of 2 23 or 7 62 like it normally 00:37:27.710 --> 00:37:30.165 would be, it's gonna be carried by guys shooting 00:37:30.255 --> 00:37:31.395 20 rounds of 3 0 3. 00:37:31.995 --> 00:37:32.235 Got it. 00:37:32.235 --> 00:37:34.365 Every one of those rounds is gonna go from one 00:37:34.365 --> 00:37:35.325 to maybe five bucks. 00:37:35.325 --> 00:37:37.605 Even like we are looking at effectively, 00:37:37.605 --> 00:37:39.855 if people wanna know where this goes, the 00:37:39.860 --> 00:37:42.825 European gun culture where if you can afford 00:37:42.830 --> 00:37:44.535 it, it's a great sport. 00:37:45.015 --> 00:37:48.075 And if you can't try baseball, 00:37:48.135 --> 00:37:49.575 tough, tough . Yeah. 00:37:49.575 --> 00:37:51.015 Like, uh, fishing. 00:37:51.105 --> 00:37:52.695 Like it's really that there's no other 00:37:52.695 --> 00:37:53.265 way around this. 00:37:53.265 --> 00:37:56.205 It's, they're moving it into that for the rich. 00:37:56.565 --> 00:37:58.935 And if you're Joe Blow blue collar 00:37:59.025 --> 00:38:01.155 hunts for your food, you're Sol man. 00:38:01.665 --> 00:38:03.600 And I've spoken with numerous gun stores. 00:38:04.095 --> 00:38:06.015 You've listed off a few of them right there 00:38:06.855 --> 00:38:08.655 about the effects that they're seeing currently. 00:38:09.135 --> 00:38:11.655 And the same thing keeps coming back. 00:38:11.655 --> 00:38:13.905 The people who want to buy new kit and buy 00:38:13.910 --> 00:38:15.975 lots of ammo, those are handgun shooters, 00:38:16.485 --> 00:38:18.225 sport shooters, people who are shooting 00:38:18.225 --> 00:38:19.335 the semi-automatics. 00:38:20.055 --> 00:38:22.395 The handgun when that announcement came in, 00:38:22.455 --> 00:38:24.255 there was a surge on buying, but there's no 00:38:24.255 --> 00:38:25.515 new guns being bought. 00:38:25.515 --> 00:38:26.745 This has all been addressed before. 00:38:26.745 --> 00:38:27.735 It's the same number that would 00:38:27.740 --> 00:38:28.665 be sold over a year. 00:38:28.665 --> 00:38:30.495 It's just sold over a condensed period of time. 00:38:30.915 --> 00:38:33.855 Yeah, it was an untenable thing for the stores 00:38:34.635 --> 00:38:38.055 and now they're seeing the repercussions 00:38:38.115 --> 00:38:38.955 very quickly. 00:38:39.195 --> 00:38:42.615 If C 21 goes through, Dan, what you're saying 00:38:43.425 --> 00:38:45.675 will come into effect, is already largely 00:38:45.675 --> 00:38:46.575 coming into effect. 00:38:46.575 --> 00:38:49.095 You're gonna see layoffs, you're gonna see small 00:38:49.095 --> 00:38:51.255 stores shut down or really niche down 00:38:51.255 --> 00:38:52.410 and prices go way up. 00:38:53.685 --> 00:38:56.625 Um, one thing that we talked about earlier 00:38:56.625 --> 00:38:59.025 was about terms, and I know the lawyers were 00:38:59.025 --> 00:39:01.125 really keen on pushing, let's say Murray Smith 00:39:01.195 --> 00:39:03.525 on, on saying what a variant was or what a 00:39:03.955 --> 00:39:04.545 modified version was. 00:39:04.550 --> 00:39:06.345 I know earlier we had mentioned maybe not, 00:39:06.405 --> 00:39:08.715 let's not get hung up on these terms cuz there's a 00:39:08.715 --> 00:39:09.765 double edged sword there. 00:39:10.455 --> 00:39:13.305 Uh, legally sometimes if there's no legal 00:39:13.305 --> 00:39:15.165 definition of what, let's say, what an assault. 00:39:15.720 --> 00:39:18.750 Weapon is, or an assault rifle is, uh, they 00:39:18.750 --> 00:39:20.850 will, they'll go to the Oxford dictionary or 00:39:20.850 --> 00:39:21.870 they'll look at US law. 00:39:21.930 --> 00:39:23.279 They'll look at other places where it's 00:39:23.285 --> 00:39:25.440 kind of been defined and, and lean on that. 00:39:26.009 --> 00:39:28.379 Uh, I think the lawyers really wanted a 00:39:28.379 --> 00:39:31.710 definition of a variant to constrain future, 00:39:32.490 --> 00:39:35.310 uh, prohibitions and put a box around what it 00:39:35.310 --> 00:39:36.089 is they're looking at. 00:39:36.089 --> 00:39:37.919 And the very telling point is, is that 00:39:37.919 --> 00:39:39.930 nobody wants to put that definition on. 00:39:40.560 --> 00:39:42.509 If we move forward, and we're talking about, 00:39:42.509 --> 00:39:44.759 like you say, this is a hunting rifle or 00:39:44.759 --> 00:39:47.669 going after the hunting rifles, I don't know. 00:39:47.669 --> 00:39:48.960 I look at this two ways. 00:39:49.080 --> 00:39:52.350 Uh, number one, it's giving some, uh, 00:39:52.355 --> 00:39:55.680 context to those who are outside of the firearms 00:39:56.140 --> 00:39:57.180 industry and saying, well, that doesn't 00:39:57.180 --> 00:39:58.109 really make sense. 00:39:58.109 --> 00:40:01.290 Why would they go after, uh, indigenous 00:40:01.290 --> 00:40:03.509 groups who use this firearm predominantly? 00:40:03.509 --> 00:40:05.640 Why would they go after the farmer or the hunter? 00:40:06.044 --> 00:40:09.765 And I can see some value into leaning on that. 00:40:09.825 --> 00:40:12.464 I do understand the gun owner standpoint 00:40:12.464 --> 00:40:14.535 of saying, the second we define hunting 00:40:14.535 --> 00:40:16.634 rifles, everything else is gonna be gone. 00:40:16.634 --> 00:40:18.464 And these are the only few until they whittle 00:40:18.464 --> 00:40:19.305 it down further. 00:40:19.875 --> 00:40:22.665 I, I, I'm torn on the two sides of that. 00:40:22.669 --> 00:40:24.044 It's kind of like saying, never call it a 00:40:24.075 --> 00:40:25.484 weapon, it's a firearm. 00:40:25.515 --> 00:40:27.565 Well, the criminal code actually 00:40:27.569 --> 00:40:28.245 calls it a weapon. 00:40:28.245 --> 00:40:28.515 Right. 00:40:28.515 --> 00:40:30.345 Even the receiver, a weapon isn't, anything 00:40:30.345 --> 00:40:32.865 that is used can be used, designed to be used to 00:40:32.870 --> 00:40:35.174 threaten, intimidate, or cause bodily harm 00:40:35.174 --> 00:40:35.955 to somebody else. 00:40:35.955 --> 00:40:37.995 And without precluding, the generality 00:40:37.995 --> 00:40:40.665 of the forego includes a firearm. 00:40:41.745 --> 00:40:42.944 Words are important. 00:40:43.544 --> 00:40:45.225 Where should people stand on this one? 00:40:45.225 --> 00:40:48.615 Should we be doubling down and saying, , look 00:40:48.615 --> 00:40:50.174 at what they're doing to the hunting firearms? 00:40:50.865 --> 00:40:51.944 Or should they try and distance 00:40:51.950 --> 00:40:52.725 themselves from that? 00:40:53.535 --> 00:40:54.825 I'd like to respond to that. 00:40:55.125 --> 00:40:55.365 Okay. 00:40:55.815 --> 00:40:58.484 I would say I agree with you and that it's, it is 00:40:58.484 --> 00:41:00.075 a double edged sword and there's, there's pros 00:41:00.075 --> 00:41:01.095 and cons to each one. 00:41:01.455 --> 00:41:02.384 I think the. 00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:05.609 The advantage of using phrases like farming, gun 00:41:05.609 --> 00:41:08.160 hunting, gun ranching, guns, uh, target gun, 00:41:08.430 --> 00:41:11.580 is that it, it makes it sound nice and 00:41:11.580 --> 00:41:14.400 it's maybe appealing to certain people. 00:41:14.790 --> 00:41:17.730 The risk is that we forget that it's the 00:41:17.734 --> 00:41:22.020 same guns that are used by military, 00:41:22.025 --> 00:41:24.279 uh, self defenders, home defenders. 00:41:24.299 --> 00:41:26.339 It's, it's exactly the same tool. 00:41:27.060 --> 00:41:27.810 That's the first thing. 00:41:27.810 --> 00:41:31.319 The second thing is I, I've chosen to, in, in my 00:41:31.325 --> 00:41:33.720 coverage@thegunblog.to, in my, in my 00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:36.779 presentations and, and discussions, focus on the 00:41:36.785 --> 00:41:38.580 confiscation from people. 00:41:38.759 --> 00:41:41.430 Cuz we have to remember, we, it's, it's simpler 00:41:41.430 --> 00:41:43.680 to say that they're going after X Ys at 00:41:43.680 --> 00:41:46.049 guns, but we have to remember that the 00:41:46.055 --> 00:41:49.109 confiscations are always targeting certain people. 00:41:49.710 --> 00:41:49.980 Right. 00:41:50.190 --> 00:41:51.839 At the end of the day, it's, it's not the gun 00:41:51.839 --> 00:41:52.920 that's legal or illegal. 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.810 It's the possession, the purchasing, the 00:41:54.810 --> 00:41:57.330 acquisition, the, the, the, having 00:41:57.330 --> 00:41:58.470 buying, owning. 00:41:59.025 --> 00:42:00.255 And that's a human activity. 00:42:01.275 --> 00:42:03.435 It's to bring the people back into this 00:42:03.435 --> 00:42:06.075 and remember that they're not, I even 00:42:06.075 --> 00:42:07.634 prefer to say they're not going after guns. 00:42:08.025 --> 00:42:09.105 They're going after people. 00:42:09.195 --> 00:42:11.145 And Daniel said this for me in his opening 00:42:11.145 --> 00:42:14.415 sentences, government licensed firearm users. 00:42:16.065 --> 00:42:17.415 This is where we get to the coincide. 00:42:17.415 --> 00:42:18.645 That's a, that's a mouthful. 00:42:18.645 --> 00:42:19.875 That like, what the heck is the government 00:42:19.875 --> 00:42:20.865 licensed firearm user? 00:42:20.865 --> 00:42:22.215 It's much easier to call it. 00:42:22.245 --> 00:42:23.415 They're going after hunting guns. 00:42:23.415 --> 00:42:24.884 So rhetorically, if you have to make 00:42:24.884 --> 00:42:26.715 an ad or a meme, they're going after. 00:42:26.715 --> 00:42:29.355 Hunters is much, it's conceptually much 00:42:29.355 --> 00:42:30.495 center, much simpler. 00:42:30.495 --> 00:42:31.965 So there's a huge advantage there. 00:42:32.475 --> 00:42:35.415 Does it come back to bite us in the bum in our, in 00:42:35.415 --> 00:42:36.435 our policy discussions? 00:42:36.435 --> 00:42:37.395 I think it does. 00:42:37.965 --> 00:42:40.904 So, pros and cons, man, pros and cons. 00:42:42.015 --> 00:42:44.025 And I think, like from my perspective, 00:42:44.415 --> 00:42:46.755 I, I echo Nick's sentiment entirely. 00:42:46.755 --> 00:42:48.015 Like I agree with everything he said. 00:42:48.525 --> 00:42:52.710 Um, I, I have no, there's nothing really to add 00:42:52.710 --> 00:42:55.170 beyond, like, I think maybe gun owners maybe 00:42:55.170 --> 00:42:56.850 just get too hung up on the terminology. 00:42:56.910 --> 00:42:59.040 Yeah, because I used to, I, I've 00:42:59.045 --> 00:42:59.730 been guilty of it. 00:42:59.730 --> 00:43:01.140 I think a lot of us have been at various 00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:03.330 junctures and at this point I can say like, 00:43:03.330 --> 00:43:05.520 my background is, is primarily in writing and 00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:07.890 English literature, so I kind of rely more on 00:43:07.890 --> 00:43:10.110 the, the language purity. 00:43:10.110 --> 00:43:11.490 A gun is absolutely a weapon. 00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:13.110 It can also be a tool. 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.000 It can also be a fishing weight. 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:16.710 It can also be a hunting rifle. 00:43:16.710 --> 00:43:18.900 It can be whatever you want it to be, you know, 00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:20.880 like you can strap it to the tire of a car 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:22.770 and use it as a ski in the snow if you want to. 00:43:22.770 --> 00:43:25.200 It's, it's just a metal implement, right? 00:43:25.205 --> 00:43:28.410 Like it is a thing that's commonly called a gun. 00:43:28.620 --> 00:43:30.750 What you add to that is kind of secondary and 00:43:30.755 --> 00:43:33.660 is more projection, and this is how I viewed it 00:43:33.790 --> 00:43:35.040 and I think gun owners would be beneficial, is 00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:38.370 maybe get caught up on how other people refer 00:43:38.375 --> 00:43:42.030 to it less and correcting them less and maybe infer 00:43:42.035 --> 00:43:43.470 from their usage more. 00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:45.480 Like if someone refers to a gun as a weapon 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.730 constantly, maybe instead of correcting 00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:49.170 them and being like, no, they're not weapons. 00:43:49.965 --> 00:43:52.005 Maybe in further, that person has a little bit 00:43:52.005 --> 00:43:53.265 of hesitancy around guns. 00:43:53.295 --> 00:43:55.725 They have a little bit of an acrimonious attitude. 00:43:55.725 --> 00:43:56.865 They're a little bit nervous. 00:43:56.985 --> 00:43:58.995 And the best way to address nervousness 00:43:58.995 --> 00:44:00.915 or ignorance, which is commonly what that 00:44:00.915 --> 00:44:03.135 comes out as, is not by just steamrolling 00:44:03.135 --> 00:44:04.245 over them being like, no, you're wrong. 00:44:04.665 --> 00:44:04.815 Right? 00:44:05.565 --> 00:44:06.555 So I just don't get caught up. 00:44:06.560 --> 00:44:07.815 And if someone's, cuz I've done tons of 00:44:07.815 --> 00:44:09.555 interviews or people call on weapons, rifles, 00:44:09.555 --> 00:44:12.165 guns, you name it, it doesn't matter If you've 00:44:12.165 --> 00:44:13.605 been in the army and someone calls it a gun, 00:44:13.605 --> 00:44:15.945 they'll bitch slap you back and say, no, that's, 00:44:15.945 --> 00:44:17.535 that's an artillery piece, that's a rifle. 00:44:17.595 --> 00:44:17.805 You know? 00:44:17.805 --> 00:44:17.895 Mm-hmm. 00:44:18.135 --> 00:44:21.225 So it's names are, are really more about who's 00:44:21.225 --> 00:44:24.525 using it than, than, than what it actually is. 00:44:24.525 --> 00:44:25.695 And I think gun owners get too caught 00:44:25.695 --> 00:44:26.415 up in that stuff. 00:44:26.415 --> 00:44:28.425 And I think we let our politicians get 00:44:28.425 --> 00:44:29.145 caught up in it too. 00:44:29.205 --> 00:44:32.085 Cuz it, and this is where this hunting gun thing, 00:44:32.805 --> 00:44:36.435 it exposes a bit of a mutual flank for both 00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:37.155 the conservatives and. 00:44:38.415 --> 00:44:40.875 because the liberals have to kind of admit 00:44:41.235 --> 00:44:44.055 that an AR 15 is just a semiautomatic rifle no 00:44:44.055 --> 00:44:46.154 different than a Browning B AR at some point. 00:44:46.365 --> 00:44:46.395 Mm. 00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:48.285 And at some point someone, and believe me, 00:44:48.285 --> 00:44:50.805 I'm sure that there is someone in a liberal war 00:44:50.810 --> 00:44:53.475 room, it's a little bit worried about someone 00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:56.775 holding up an AR 15 round and holding up a b 00:44:56.805 --> 00:44:59.415 ar 30 odd six round and going, oh, this rifle 00:44:59.415 --> 00:45:02.205 shoots these four of 'em as fast as you want. 00:45:02.205 --> 00:45:03.105 The other one shoots these. 00:45:03.525 --> 00:45:05.055 Um, so they're worried about that. 00:45:05.654 --> 00:45:07.125 The conservatives on the other hand are also 00:45:07.125 --> 00:45:09.075 worried about it because they want to be seen as 00:45:09.075 --> 00:45:10.875 defending hunting guns cause that's socially 00:45:10.875 --> 00:45:11.985 acceptable in Canada. 00:45:12.465 --> 00:45:13.755 But they also have to accept 00:45:13.755 --> 00:45:14.745 someone eventually. 00:45:14.745 --> 00:45:17.265 Reality has to accept that there's 00:45:17.265 --> 00:45:18.075 no difference. 00:45:18.465 --> 00:45:21.465 A semi-automatic AR 15 and 2 23 is just as good 00:45:21.465 --> 00:45:23.835 at hunting coyotes as a semiotic b ar, and 30 00:45:23.835 --> 00:45:25.245 odd six s at hunting elk. 00:45:25.545 --> 00:45:26.654 They're just guns. 00:45:27.495 --> 00:45:30.255 And uh, we should, by that, I agree also that 00:45:31.005 --> 00:45:32.895 we should be calling, um, in certain cases 00:45:32.900 --> 00:45:34.154 that we should be referring to the AR 00:45:34.154 --> 00:45:35.715 15 as a hunting gun. 00:45:36.255 --> 00:45:37.944 Because in it's most popular hunting gun in 00:45:37.944 --> 00:45:38.685 America in the world. 00:45:38.805 --> 00:45:40.515 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:45:40.515 --> 00:45:41.895 I guess cuz it's the largest hunting market. 00:45:41.984 --> 00:45:43.665 So, so the ar all popular in the world. 00:45:43.665 --> 00:45:46.245 So we've, we've, we've, we've, uh, I I've, I 00:45:47.234 --> 00:45:49.305 I avoid referring to firearms as weapons 00:45:49.310 --> 00:45:51.105 because I think, uh, philosophically 00:45:51.105 --> 00:45:51.734 they are not. 00:45:51.734 --> 00:45:53.685 But I also agree, Dan wholeheartedly with you, 00:45:53.685 --> 00:45:55.964 that that's, that's, they can be's like that. 00:45:55.995 --> 00:45:57.734 That's a, that's a discussion that 00:45:57.734 --> 00:45:59.055 about three people are interested in. 00:45:59.055 --> 00:46:01.484 I'm people who like to splice hairs and three 00:46:01.484 --> 00:46:04.944 of us are interested in the, the, but, but all 00:46:04.944 --> 00:46:07.634 three of us are in this one pot is, oh my God. 00:46:07.640 --> 00:46:08.805 And that's, and that slippery, 00:46:08.805 --> 00:46:09.555 what are the odds? 00:46:09.765 --> 00:46:11.535 I think you're also pointing to a slippery 00:46:11.535 --> 00:46:14.355 slope of, of how this policy is, is 00:46:14.355 --> 00:46:15.555 being rationalized. 00:46:15.855 --> 00:46:18.015 First they say, oh, you can't use it for hunting. 00:46:18.075 --> 00:46:18.404 Oh. 00:46:18.705 --> 00:46:20.835 And part two, since you can't use it for hunting, 00:46:20.835 --> 00:46:21.525 you don't need it. 00:46:21.585 --> 00:46:21.825 Oh. 00:46:21.825 --> 00:46:23.295 And so let's just confiscate them. 00:46:23.714 --> 00:46:25.035 So the, it's, it's a minute. 00:46:25.065 --> 00:46:26.535 That's where those people who say No, 00:46:26.625 --> 00:46:28.995 we draw the line at the, the first step is 00:46:28.995 --> 00:46:29.924 where we draw the line. 00:46:30.495 --> 00:46:32.384 Cuz once they go take that first step, there's 00:46:32.384 --> 00:46:34.335 always the second and then the third. 00:46:34.335 --> 00:46:35.295 And that is, and the fourth. 00:46:35.850 --> 00:46:36.810 Absolutely true. 00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:39.450 Like in committee, I remember vividly last 00:46:39.450 --> 00:46:41.580 week, justice Witness, and this is a, this 00:46:41.580 --> 00:46:45.740 is a non-political public sector employee 00:46:45.745 --> 00:46:48.390 working for the Justice Department who had, 00:46:48.395 --> 00:46:51.450 again, the gall, when the benellis were brought 00:46:51.455 --> 00:46:53.490 up to simply say, well, they were banded 92. 00:46:53.490 --> 00:46:54.870 So obviously they don't have any practical 00:46:54.870 --> 00:46:56.910 reason cuz they've been illegal since 92. 00:46:56.910 --> 00:46:57.000 Right. 00:46:57.510 --> 00:47:01.380 Like that somehow, like being banned 92 prevents 00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:03.960 them from being useful and, and Nick's right, 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:04.860 they're gonna do this. 00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:06.210 They're gonna say these guns, they're 00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:06.870 gonna ban them. 00:47:06.870 --> 00:47:09.360 If they do ban them today, these guns will 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:11.580 never be considered viable hunting rifles 00:47:11.580 --> 00:47:12.960 in the future because they'll simply say, well 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:13.620 no, they're illegal. 00:47:13.680 --> 00:47:15.300 They have been, you have kinda like the air 00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:17.010 15 in Canada is not a viable hunting rifle 00:47:17.010 --> 00:47:18.570 cause you're not legally allowed to hunt with it. 00:47:18.660 --> 00:47:19.620 It becomes a self-fulfilling 00:47:19.620 --> 00:47:20.550 prophecy effectively. 00:47:20.555 --> 00:47:20.940 That's right. 00:47:22.350 --> 00:47:23.490 Same with handguns in the bush. 00:47:23.490 --> 00:47:24.690 You can't, yeah. 00:47:24.750 --> 00:47:25.470 Yeah, exactly. 00:47:26.790 --> 00:47:28.710 I always figured Alberta, Alberta should come in 00:47:28.740 --> 00:47:30.330 because the only thing that stops people from 00:47:30.335 --> 00:47:32.370 shooting a handgun in the, in the woods is 00:47:32.370 --> 00:47:34.970 that your att, which allows you to transport 00:47:34.970 --> 00:47:37.020 it to a range, not out into the woods. 00:47:37.770 --> 00:47:39.390 And ATTs are given up. 00:47:39.390 --> 00:47:41.670 Provincially, although you'd know more about 00:47:41.670 --> 00:47:44.460 this being the, the hunting and guy. 00:47:44.790 --> 00:47:46.380 The hunting, well definitely more than 00:47:46.380 --> 00:47:49.500 me like is could you be able to hunt in 00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:51.390 Alberta with a handgun if the CFO said so? 00:47:52.140 --> 00:47:52.470 Yeah. 00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:53.940 I mean, they do it in the States. 00:47:53.940 --> 00:47:55.740 I remember being down at the, well, I, 00:47:55.745 --> 00:47:58.200 Massachusetts legally like could, oh, I see 00:47:58.205 --> 00:48:00.780 the CFO of Alberta legally without rewriting 00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:03.030 the f the firearms act like with the current 00:48:03.030 --> 00:48:05.310 framework issue, an at t to someone for like a, 00:48:05.550 --> 00:48:09.240 a 44 meg and then that person have a, a tag 00:48:09.240 --> 00:48:12.030 for a deer and go get a deer with a, a handgun. 00:48:12.030 --> 00:48:12.750 Would that be legal? 00:48:13.060 --> 00:48:15.420 So we have federal and provincial laws 00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:16.560 and provincial laws. 00:48:16.650 --> 00:48:18.930 Uh, if your province says you're good to 00:48:18.935 --> 00:48:21.000 go and use a handgun, then the federal laws 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.435 say, I kick in mind you ATTs, and this would 00:48:24.435 --> 00:48:26.715 be great to have Ian on because I'm no lawyer, 00:48:26.745 --> 00:48:30.045 but the, uh, ATTs are issued provincially. 00:48:30.375 --> 00:48:31.875 From my understanding, that's one of the things 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:34.545 we're trying to, uh, to change and have a federal 00:48:34.545 --> 00:48:37.035 oversight on all ATTs as as we move forward. 00:48:37.065 --> 00:48:41.265 ATCs Well, and ATC is also something that you 00:48:41.265 --> 00:48:43.575 can bring out, but it'll have conditions attached. 00:48:44.715 --> 00:48:47.105 I think they're moving the ATCs to the RCMP 00:48:47.110 --> 00:48:49.065 federally for ATCs for Protection of Life. 00:48:49.305 --> 00:48:51.165 But the ATTs, I think that's part of C 21. 00:48:51.165 --> 00:48:51.885 Isn it, yeah. 00:48:51.945 --> 00:48:52.155 Yeah. 00:48:52.155 --> 00:48:54.135 But the ATTs, I believe are staying are, I 00:48:54.140 --> 00:48:56.535 don't think that the, the, the regulatory 00:48:56.540 --> 00:48:58.815 body for ATTs changes as, as far as I know. 00:48:58.815 --> 00:49:00.675 Again, hashtag not a lawyer. 00:49:01.335 --> 00:49:04.065 Um, the tribe on that question though, is, 00:49:04.065 --> 00:49:06.525 isn't it the, isn't it, and I'm not a hunter, not 00:49:06.525 --> 00:49:07.365 a lawyer, not a hunter. 00:49:08.355 --> 00:49:09.135 Is it not? 00:49:09.225 --> 00:49:11.115 Um, my understanding was that it's illegal 00:49:11.115 --> 00:49:14.565 in Canada federally to hunt or to use a quote 00:49:14.565 --> 00:49:16.155 unquote prohibited or quote, unquote 00:49:16.155 --> 00:49:18.645 restricted firearm for hunting, you can only 00:49:18.645 --> 00:49:20.415 use a non-restricted, and therefore handguns 00:49:20.415 --> 00:49:21.315 are automatically out. 00:49:22.005 --> 00:49:23.475 So that would be a provincial rule, 00:49:23.835 --> 00:49:25.095 depending, I don't, I don't, I don't know 00:49:25.095 --> 00:49:27.555 every province, but the provinces govern the, 00:49:27.555 --> 00:49:31.035 uh, the use of implements for hunting, whether 00:49:31.035 --> 00:49:34.755 that be a spear or a bow or, uh, a firearm that 00:49:34.755 --> 00:49:36.285 would, that would fall under provincial rule. 00:49:36.285 --> 00:49:36.945 Municipally. 00:49:36.945 --> 00:49:39.075 They can put extra rules in place as well. 00:49:39.615 --> 00:49:41.265 But um, like they can say, well, 00:49:41.265 --> 00:49:41.925 not in our city. 00:49:41.925 --> 00:49:44.475 You ain't, you can't, no firearms or no single 00:49:44.475 --> 00:49:46.575 projectiles, for example, corporation of Delta. 00:49:46.695 --> 00:49:46.785 Mm-hmm. 00:49:47.025 --> 00:49:48.615 guess for a city now, city of Delta. 00:49:49.305 --> 00:49:53.235 And, but from the use of a firearm would 00:49:53.235 --> 00:49:55.995 come down to can you legally discharge it? 00:49:56.025 --> 00:49:57.615 Well, you can discharge a firearm anywhere. 00:49:57.615 --> 00:49:58.755 It's lawful to do so. 00:49:58.815 --> 00:50:02.655 Well That's then brings into, you know, 00:50:02.655 --> 00:50:03.285 have a loaded fire. 00:50:03.290 --> 00:50:05.055 Anywhere you're allowed to lawfully discharge it. 00:50:06.255 --> 00:50:07.935 Can I lawfully discharge my handgun 00:50:07.940 --> 00:50:08.685 out in the woods? 00:50:08.865 --> 00:50:10.635 And this is getting perhaps a 00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:11.385 little off topic. 00:50:11.390 --> 00:50:13.875 If ATTs, if, if what you're saying is that 00:50:13.875 --> 00:50:16.365 ATTs aren't gonna be affected, it's the ATCs. 00:50:16.695 --> 00:50:17.895 I must have misread that part. 00:50:18.629 --> 00:50:21.390 . But, um, the, from my understanding, not a 00:50:21.390 --> 00:50:23.520 lawyer, the only thing stopping you from using 00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:27.029 your firearm out in the woods would be an a t 00:50:27.060 --> 00:50:29.939 which is why many law enforcement can go out 00:50:29.939 --> 00:50:32.069 in the woods and shoot their pistols just fine. 00:50:32.549 --> 00:50:32.759 Mm-hmm. 00:50:32.759 --> 00:50:34.589 Because they've got that blanket transport. 00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:36.209 I have, I have a different understanding 00:50:36.214 --> 00:50:37.649 the opportunity for Alberta there. 00:50:37.649 --> 00:50:37.919 Yeah. 00:50:38.220 --> 00:50:38.339 Mm-hmm. 00:50:39.450 --> 00:50:40.859 , I mean, given they've been pretty clear. 00:50:40.859 --> 00:50:42.000 I mean, that's the other thing that I think we 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.680 haven't talked about is probably the provincial. 00:50:44.430 --> 00:50:45.600 Like we were already seeing that you think 00:50:45.600 --> 00:50:47.370 back to, it's, it's funny now how, how 00:50:47.370 --> 00:50:50.279 thoroughly this shatters your, like there was, 00:50:50.285 --> 00:50:53.040 there's the before C 21 Amendment times, and then 00:50:53.040 --> 00:50:54.180 there's the after times 00:50:54.450 --> 00:50:56.640 Because before we oh's huge, the big 00:50:56.640 --> 00:50:59.100 talk was Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba. 00:50:59.370 --> 00:50:59.459 Mm-hmm. 00:50:59.700 --> 00:51:01.470 all saying, we're not gonna do this by. 00:51:02.325 --> 00:51:04.785 Um, Yukon and, and New Brunswick. 00:51:04.785 --> 00:51:05.805 Aren't they jumping on too? 00:51:06.134 --> 00:51:06.825 Yeah, that's true. 00:51:06.825 --> 00:51:06.975 Yeah. 00:51:06.975 --> 00:51:07.964 It was five total, isn't it? 00:51:07.964 --> 00:51:12.464 And now, like this, this ban, I mean it's the, 00:51:12.470 --> 00:51:13.185 the, the compensate. 00:51:13.185 --> 00:51:15.254 Cuz justice has been pretty unequivocal by 00:51:15.259 --> 00:51:17.625 saying that if these ban goes through, these 00:51:17.625 --> 00:51:19.725 prohibited firearms will not be available for use. 00:51:19.915 --> 00:51:22.365 They've been, they've repeated that ad 00:51:22.365 --> 00:51:23.895 nauseum, so it doesn't sound like it'll be 00:51:23.895 --> 00:51:24.884 like a grandfathering. 00:51:24.975 --> 00:51:26.325 Like if you got a bar, you'll still be able 00:51:26.325 --> 00:51:27.705 to hunt with it until you die kind of thing. 00:51:27.705 --> 00:51:28.365 No, you won't. 00:51:29.024 --> 00:51:31.154 Um, so I think from that perspective, it's 00:51:31.154 --> 00:51:31.725 very interesting to. 00:51:32.834 --> 00:51:34.214 . And that's why we've included on some of 00:51:34.214 --> 00:51:36.254 the form letters that, you know, people should 00:51:36.254 --> 00:51:38.475 be emailing their provincial ministers of 00:51:38.481 --> 00:51:41.325 public safety because the bill to pay for 00:51:41.325 --> 00:51:44.234 this will probably most be felt by those 00:51:44.234 --> 00:51:45.314 provincial authorities. 00:51:45.705 --> 00:51:46.964 And it, there's so many wedges. 00:51:46.964 --> 00:51:48.915 Like it's funny that this one wedge, it's very 00:51:48.915 --> 00:51:51.285 obviously a, an attempt to create a liberal wedge 00:51:51.285 --> 00:51:54.345 for likely an election next spring has created, 00:51:54.524 --> 00:51:56.354 I think, probably a lot more wedges than 00:51:56.354 --> 00:51:57.225 they anticipated. 00:51:57.225 --> 00:51:58.814 So, I mean, Nick's saying, don't 00:51:58.814 --> 00:51:59.444 be surprised. 00:51:59.444 --> 00:52:00.884 I think, uh, he's right. 00:52:01.095 --> 00:52:02.145 But I think it might have surprised some 00:52:02.145 --> 00:52:04.274 people that it probably really shouldn't have 00:52:04.274 --> 00:52:06.404 surprised, like the people that wrote it. 00:52:07.785 --> 00:52:10.095 I'd like to add to, to that if I made that 00:52:10.185 --> 00:52:14.115 the, um, this bill is also quite nefarious 00:52:14.115 --> 00:52:16.875 because even though it's a federal, it would be 00:52:16.875 --> 00:52:21.555 a federal law ordering confiscation essentially 00:52:21.555 --> 00:52:23.205 because you won't be able to buy, sell, or, 00:52:23.209 --> 00:52:24.645 or pass on to your heirs. 00:52:25.545 --> 00:52:27.585 It's, it's offsetting the cost of that 00:52:27.585 --> 00:52:28.335 confiscation. 00:52:28.335 --> 00:52:29.475 There's no mention of who's gonna do 00:52:29.475 --> 00:52:30.194 the confiscating. 00:52:30.194 --> 00:52:31.815 Well, who's gonna do the confiscating is your 00:52:31.815 --> 00:52:33.285 municipal police force. 00:52:33.555 --> 00:52:37.004 So when Hunter Bill or, or Hunter Joe, uh, 00:52:37.065 --> 00:52:38.774 dies and someone has to come and collect 00:52:38.774 --> 00:52:40.245 the guns, well, who's gonna do that? 00:52:40.245 --> 00:52:42.795 Well, that's presumably gonna be the municipal 00:52:42.795 --> 00:52:43.234 police force. 00:52:43.815 --> 00:52:46.274 Well, municipal police forces keep saying, 00:52:46.305 --> 00:52:47.595 we don't have the budgets for this. 00:52:47.865 --> 00:52:50.055 There's, there's, this is a massive, 00:52:50.055 --> 00:52:52.004 massive, uh, we're talking about millions 00:52:52.004 --> 00:52:53.685 at this point between the handguns and the, 00:52:53.685 --> 00:52:55.194 the rifles and shotguns that are involved. 00:52:55.424 --> 00:52:56.504 Millions of firearms. 00:52:56.509 --> 00:52:59.234 It would be a nonstop job just to go around 00:52:59.234 --> 00:53:01.845 the provinces or the, the municipality and 00:53:01.845 --> 00:53:02.805 collect this stuff. 00:53:02.944 --> 00:53:06.734 Well, they don't, that's not no police 00:53:06.734 --> 00:53:08.355 force at the moment. 00:53:08.415 --> 00:53:10.484 I mean, it wants to do that or has the 00:53:10.484 --> 00:53:12.555 budget to do that, or they're responding 00:53:12.560 --> 00:53:13.365 to 9 1 1 calls. 00:53:13.365 --> 00:53:13.515 Right. 00:53:13.515 --> 00:53:14.924 They're, they're busy fighting bad guys. 00:53:14.930 --> 00:53:16.634 They don't, they don't wanna turn into, they 00:53:16.640 --> 00:53:18.555 don't wanna be turned into confiscation agents. 00:53:19.095 --> 00:53:19.214 Mm-hmm. 00:53:19.455 --> 00:53:20.865 . So this is, again, federally. 00:53:21.240 --> 00:53:23.460 Who's going to, whose defacto is my 00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:25.440 understanding is gonna be charged with execution. 00:53:25.830 --> 00:53:29.190 It's the municipalities and no one's 00:53:29.190 --> 00:53:30.060 talking about that. 00:53:30.629 --> 00:53:32.460 Well, the really interesting one for me, 00:53:32.730 --> 00:53:34.770 for example, Alberta, when they came out and 00:53:34.770 --> 00:53:38.339 they said, okay, we've got the RCMP here, 00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:39.930 we've got their tasks. 00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:40.950 They're under contract. 00:53:41.009 --> 00:53:44.970 We're not gonna use our money to fund the RCMP 00:53:45.420 --> 00:53:47.910 to do this extra duty outside of their normal 00:53:47.910 --> 00:53:50.279 policing duties to go confiscate the firearms. 00:53:50.549 --> 00:53:51.549 That was interesting. 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.520 But they went further and they said, we're looking 00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:56.609 at enacting legislation to prevent the federal 00:53:56.615 --> 00:53:59.460 government from funding the RCMP or allowing 00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:01.140 them to confiscate these firearms. 00:54:01.319 --> 00:54:04.770 How do we have federal laws in Canada that 00:54:04.859 --> 00:54:07.710 provincially can be opted out of that 00:54:07.859 --> 00:54:09.690 I, you know, that's an interesting one. 00:54:09.750 --> 00:54:11.609 It's an untenable situ. 00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:14.160 Well, what I understand from Alberta and 00:54:14.160 --> 00:54:15.780 Saskatchewan is they're preparing their own. 00:54:16.050 --> 00:54:17.790 I just took a very brief look at this stuff in 00:54:17.790 --> 00:54:18.510 the past few days, right. 00:54:18.510 --> 00:54:21.660 They're planning their own firearms acts to 00:54:22.050 --> 00:54:24.960 require licensing of any confiscation agent. 00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:26.970 So they're gonna, they're, I guess they're 00:54:26.975 --> 00:54:29.250 gonna have lawyer people who are actual lawyers, 00:54:29.250 --> 00:54:33.000 not, not some blogger, but who are finding 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.280 very creative ways to say, we're not having 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.450 your confiscations here. 00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:37.290 Mm-hmm. 00:54:38.790 --> 00:54:40.410 . Well, I mean, that's a brilliant one because 00:54:40.410 --> 00:54:44.100 that, that licensing thing, I mean, you first 00:54:44.105 --> 00:54:45.360 read it and you think it sounds pretty harmless, 00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:47.790 but I mean, who, who currently administers 00:54:47.795 --> 00:54:48.480 those licenses? 00:54:48.690 --> 00:54:50.430 If you wanted to take a course, who would 00:54:50.430 --> 00:54:50.910 you take it from? 00:54:50.970 --> 00:54:51.540 Travis. 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:51.960 Mm-hmm. 00:54:52.290 --> 00:54:53.250 . It's private individuals. 00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:54.360 Private sector businesses. 00:54:54.390 --> 00:54:56.820 They can refuse customers for various reasons. 00:54:56.850 --> 00:54:56.940 Mm-hmm. 00:54:57.570 --> 00:54:59.400 . So it'd be very easy for the instructors in 00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:00.990 Alberta to go, well, we're just not gonna 00:55:00.990 --> 00:55:03.870 take any potential confiscation agents on 00:55:03.870 --> 00:55:06.120 as potential students so they can't get licensed. 00:55:06.125 --> 00:55:07.500 And that kind of stalls it there. 00:55:08.430 --> 00:55:08.730 I love that. 00:55:08.730 --> 00:55:11.055 Which again, It all, you can be otherwise 00:55:11.055 --> 00:55:12.675 designated by a firearms officer. 00:55:12.675 --> 00:55:14.295 They do have a section in their That's true. 00:55:14.295 --> 00:55:14.625 Yeah. 00:55:15.585 --> 00:55:18.195 But I, which has happened, but I mean, the 00:55:18.195 --> 00:55:20.085 Alberta Chief Firearms Officer ain't a boat 00:55:20.085 --> 00:55:20.955 to appoint anyone. 00:55:21.105 --> 00:55:22.485 Right, right. 00:55:22.485 --> 00:55:26.295 Like it's, it's Fortress Alberta as a, as a BC or 00:55:26.295 --> 00:55:28.185 that's halfway between Vancouver and Calgary. 00:55:28.445 --> 00:55:31.065 Um, it's basically Fortress Alberta. 00:55:31.065 --> 00:55:32.625 Like they, they've, they've got a pretty 00:55:32.625 --> 00:55:35.025 decent amount of buttress against it there. 00:55:35.385 --> 00:55:35.625 Mm-hmm. 00:55:35.865 --> 00:55:38.745 . Um, and I've heard for a long time people that 00:55:38.750 --> 00:55:41.714 have been around, For probably seven plus 00:55:41.714 --> 00:55:44.595 years might know that like non-compliance, 00:55:44.595 --> 00:55:46.694 when Trudeau was first elected, non-compliance 00:55:46.694 --> 00:55:48.375 was always discussed as the thing that the 00:55:48.375 --> 00:55:49.395 liberals feared most. 00:55:49.725 --> 00:55:49.904 Mm-hmm. 00:55:50.145 --> 00:55:51.525 . Um, we heard it from liberal party 00:55:51.525 --> 00:55:53.984 insiders back then that anything they looked 00:55:53.984 --> 00:55:55.575 at passing, they were always concerned that 00:55:55.580 --> 00:55:57.285 compliance would be low because the long gun 00:55:57.285 --> 00:55:59.895 registry compliance was never greater than 50%. 00:56:00.045 --> 00:56:01.185 And that was always what killed them 00:56:01.185 --> 00:56:01.875 on the costing. 00:56:02.055 --> 00:56:02.295 Mm-hmm. 00:56:02.745 --> 00:56:04.845 , way back when we went through all that, and 00:56:04.845 --> 00:56:07.755 I remember it vividly, it was you, you spent 00:56:07.755 --> 00:56:09.975 billions of dollars and you got 50% of the guns. 00:56:09.975 --> 00:56:10.935 It's pointless, right? 00:56:10.995 --> 00:56:11.115 Mm-hmm. 00:56:11.595 --> 00:56:13.305 . Um, so they're still sensitive about that and 00:56:13.305 --> 00:56:16.395 I think, you know, with C 21 and what's going on 00:56:16.395 --> 00:56:20.055 in Alberta, this, this semi-automatic ban is 00:56:20.565 --> 00:56:22.484 really stolen all the air out of the room for sure, 00:56:22.484 --> 00:56:24.134 for obvious reasons, cuz it's massive. 00:56:24.464 --> 00:56:24.555 Mm-hmm. 00:56:24.915 --> 00:56:27.176 . Um, but when you view it, when you kind of 00:56:27.315 --> 00:56:29.565 pull back and view the forest for the trees and 00:56:29.565 --> 00:56:31.335 you contextualize that this is an amendment 00:56:31.339 --> 00:56:34.185 to a bill that was already being opposed 00:56:34.185 --> 00:56:36.015 openly by the entire. 00:56:36.420 --> 00:56:38.310 Prairie provinces, Yukon, new Brunswick. 00:56:39.120 --> 00:56:41.340 Um, it does change the perspective a 00:56:41.340 --> 00:56:42.690 bit if people are starting to panic. 00:56:42.690 --> 00:56:43.860 Well, I don't know. 00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:45.120 It kind of changes the math a bit for me 00:56:45.125 --> 00:56:46.940 personally, like I work in the industry, it's a 00:56:46.940 --> 00:56:47.790 game changer for sure. 00:56:48.029 --> 00:56:48.120 Mm-hmm. 00:56:48.390 --> 00:56:50.759 . But looking at all those things, it does at least 00:56:50.759 --> 00:56:52.020 gimme a little bit of hope of going, yeah, 00:56:52.020 --> 00:56:54.420 you know what there is, the system might 00:56:54.424 --> 00:56:55.680 kind of work maybe. 00:56:55.710 --> 00:56:55.799 Mm-hmm. 00:56:56.040 --> 00:56:57.779 , there's enough pushback, enough feedback, 00:56:57.779 --> 00:56:58.920 enough political pressure, enough 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:01.290 friction that maybe this won't go through. 00:57:02.160 --> 00:57:03.509 You feel they got a little too greedy, 00:57:03.570 --> 00:57:04.980 they threw too much on that boat and it's 00:57:05.259 --> 00:57:05.700 starting to sink? 00:57:06.870 --> 00:57:08.130 Or do you think it was by design? 00:57:08.250 --> 00:57:08.940 Perhaps? 00:57:09.870 --> 00:57:11.850 I worry because I think that we can all conclude 00:57:11.850 --> 00:57:13.290 that the liberal party has access to better 00:57:13.290 --> 00:57:14.380 data than any of us have. 00:57:14.380 --> 00:57:14.940 Mm-hmm. 00:57:15.190 --> 00:57:17.700 , um, they are incredibly efficient. 00:57:18.270 --> 00:57:20.279 They have won two elections now by 00:57:20.279 --> 00:57:22.740 losing them, as in they get less votes 00:57:22.745 --> 00:57:24.500 than other people, but they win the election. 00:57:24.505 --> 00:57:25.320 That's efficiency. 00:57:26.970 --> 00:57:28.230 And I worry about that cuz this 00:57:28.230 --> 00:57:29.430 stuff does play in. 00:57:29.430 --> 00:57:32.970 And if anyone's, again, people gotta step, if 00:57:32.970 --> 00:57:35.220 you're, if you haven't step out of your echo 00:57:35.220 --> 00:57:38.190 bubble and just Google carry price on Twitter. 00:57:38.520 --> 00:57:41.700 Just Google it and look at not, not the results 00:57:41.700 --> 00:57:43.620 that you wanna see, but just scroll through 00:57:43.620 --> 00:57:44.310 'em and read 'em all. 00:57:44.310 --> 00:57:45.779 Cuz you'll find that it's probably about 00:57:45.779 --> 00:57:47.380 50 50 that mm-hmm. 00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:48.390 , there's a lot of people of Oh yeah. 00:57:48.450 --> 00:57:50.009 You know, happy to stand with him, happy to see 00:57:50.009 --> 00:57:51.810 him standing up for, for all that stuff. 00:57:52.529 --> 00:57:54.630 And there's a lot of people saying they're 00:57:54.630 --> 00:57:55.980 gonna throw his jersey in the garbage and 00:57:55.980 --> 00:57:56.580 stuff like that. 00:57:56.700 --> 00:57:58.200 So it's, it's pretty even. 00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:00.720 Um, and I think people should probably keep 00:58:00.725 --> 00:58:01.680 that in context. 00:58:02.100 --> 00:58:04.470 Um, so I, I don't know. 00:58:04.529 --> 00:58:09.690 I mean, I wanna say, so, um, ultimately I guess 00:58:10.620 --> 00:58:12.360 the, the pragmatist in me wants to say that 00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:14.870 on exit polling, gun politics never actually 00:58:14.875 --> 00:58:16.830 cracks the top 10 on why people cast a ballot. 00:58:17.160 --> 00:58:17.509 Mm. 00:58:17.640 --> 00:58:21.660 Um, so will this be the reason people vote for 00:58:21.660 --> 00:58:23.040 Justin Trudeau or don't? 00:58:23.415 --> 00:58:23.834 No. 00:58:24.825 --> 00:58:27.584 Will this be the reason that people volunteer 00:58:27.584 --> 00:58:28.785 for a political party? 00:58:28.845 --> 00:58:29.564 Yes. 00:58:30.104 --> 00:58:34.484 Will this probably create more, does this 00:58:34.490 --> 00:58:36.314 create exponentially more leverage within the 00:58:36.314 --> 00:58:38.444 NDP and the block way be wha for gun owners 00:58:38.444 --> 00:58:41.055 to create change within those party structures? 00:58:41.060 --> 00:58:41.754 Absolutely. 00:58:42.555 --> 00:58:43.484 That's the big takeaway. 00:58:43.814 --> 00:58:45.495 I think if gun owners are looking at this 00:58:45.495 --> 00:58:48.395 for the absolute, like what is the absolute 00:58:48.399 --> 00:58:49.544 best thing that could happen from this? 00:58:49.549 --> 00:58:52.995 It would be gun owners liaising with the NDP 00:58:53.115 --> 00:58:56.595 and the block and, and effectively taking guns 00:58:56.595 --> 00:58:59.834 off the political table by doing so by, by using 00:58:59.839 --> 00:59:01.515 this as an opportunity to recognize liberals 00:59:01.515 --> 00:59:03.734 of open the door for us to have a conversation 00:59:03.734 --> 00:59:06.165 here and for us to have that conversation 00:59:06.584 --> 00:59:08.504 with all of the other parties that want to, 00:59:09.165 --> 00:59:12.254 um, and clarify that, like I said, we license 00:59:12.259 --> 00:59:14.415 the people, we don't, we license who has. 00:59:15.540 --> 00:59:17.370 I wouldn't want to be in a room with someone 00:59:17.370 --> 00:59:18.810 with criminal intent, whether they were armed 00:59:18.810 --> 00:59:20.400 with a 22 or a 50 cow. 00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:20.910 It wouldn't matter. 00:59:20.970 --> 00:59:22.800 I'm probably not getting outta the room alive. 00:59:23.220 --> 00:59:24.960 So we control the people. 00:59:25.170 --> 00:59:26.760 Let's spend a lot less effort controlling 00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:27.570 the individual things. 00:59:27.570 --> 00:59:29.010 A lot less time, a lot less money. 00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:33.750 Um, I think that that could probably work for 00:59:33.750 --> 00:59:34.710 the block in the ndp. 00:59:35.370 --> 00:59:36.840 Those parties wanna spend a lot of money, 00:59:37.200 --> 00:59:39.960 um, which means they probably need to look at 00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:40.710 saving money right now. 00:59:40.710 --> 00:59:41.880 It's one of those things where you gotta look, 00:59:41.885 --> 00:59:43.560 the economy is kind of a perfect storm, or they 00:59:43.560 --> 00:59:44.280 gotta look at saving. 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:46.740 If they wanna spend Trudeau's opened 00:59:46.740 --> 00:59:48.390 the door with this semiautomatic ban. 00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:50.700 I think that's the, that is the big thing. 00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:52.440 I'd love to see the NDP shift back to 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:56.280 a jack, late gun agnostic perspective. 00:59:56.760 --> 00:59:56.910 Mm-hmm. 00:59:57.210 --> 00:59:58.440 , I think it'd be the best, honest to 00:59:58.440 --> 00:59:59.460 God for gun owners. 00:59:59.465 --> 01:00:00.480 I think it'd be the best for Canada. 01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:01.440 It'd be the best for the ndp. 01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:02.550 I voted for the NDP in the past. 01:00:02.550 --> 01:00:04.980 I'm not like it's, I voted for every party in 01:00:04.985 --> 01:00:06.000 the past at some points. 01:00:06.005 --> 01:00:07.560 Like it's, it's very important that we have 01:00:07.565 --> 01:00:09.390 a three party system and the health of that is, 01:00:10.410 --> 01:00:13.200 it relies on the NDP not being the liberals laps. 01:00:14.850 --> 01:00:17.820 So you bring up a good point about the 01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:20.070 communication carry price, getting up there 01:00:20.070 --> 01:00:22.020 and everyone's like, you know, I stand behind him. 01:00:22.020 --> 01:00:25.800 And I, it was gonna be one of the questions I'm 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:29.130 saving, uh, to the end, but we're into it now. 01:00:29.610 --> 01:00:31.290 You guys are both media professionals. 01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:36.570 From your perspective, uh, how should those 01:00:36.570 --> 01:00:39.000 who are affected be communicating 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.520 their concerns and communicating through 01:00:41.520 --> 01:00:44.820 social media, through their, uh, MLA's, 01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:45.900 through their mps? 01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:47.400 Like, what, what should, what should 01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.120 be happening on a communication standpoint? 01:00:52.740 --> 01:00:55.950 Because I, I see some groups, some businesses, 01:00:56.160 --> 01:00:58.800 some individuals even are trying to make 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.650 hashtags popular, so it's used as a marketing 01:01:01.650 --> 01:01:02.670 tool for themselves. 01:01:03.495 --> 01:01:06.345 Which I guess is great for them to, to market 01:01:06.345 --> 01:01:09.315 in their way unless they come under some form of 01:01:09.315 --> 01:01:12.345 censure and everyone can make that association 01:01:12.345 --> 01:01:15.105 The, uh, the attacking point, which is what's 01:01:15.110 --> 01:01:17.535 happening right now with the ccfr and, and 01:01:17.595 --> 01:01:20.355 the, uh, the hashtag we sent with them and they 01:01:20.355 --> 01:01:22.275 didn't like the, uh, the code that was used. 01:01:22.275 --> 01:01:23.805 I just got some information on that. 01:01:23.805 --> 01:01:25.275 I don't know all the ins and outs, but I 01:01:25.275 --> 01:01:28.395 guess there is some, uh, hue in Christ saying 01:01:28.395 --> 01:01:31.065 they use a distasteful discount code. 01:01:31.305 --> 01:01:35.535 And, um, now the message is disappearing and 01:01:35.540 --> 01:01:39.705 everyone's focusing on the, that, I guess, 01:01:39.705 --> 01:01:40.905 marketing aspect of it. 01:01:41.115 --> 01:01:42.735 Should people be staying away from that? 01:01:42.765 --> 01:01:44.205 How, how should we be communicating? 01:01:46.665 --> 01:01:49.875 I mean, does it change? 01:01:49.875 --> 01:01:50.265 It's tough. 01:01:51.285 --> 01:01:52.065 I don't know if it changed. 01:01:52.065 --> 01:01:53.685 That's kind of what I'm at is I think 01:01:53.685 --> 01:01:57.255 Carrie's Carrie price's point is unchanged. 01:01:57.295 --> 01:01:57.905 Mm-hmm. 01:01:57.985 --> 01:02:01.365 , I think, um, The discount code's. 01:02:01.365 --> 01:02:02.415 Unfortunate there's all you can do. 01:02:02.475 --> 01:02:04.575 Like, just to be blunt, cuz we can't, I'm not 01:02:04.575 --> 01:02:06.015 gonna dance around this subject for the 01:02:06.015 --> 01:02:07.004 entire conversation. 01:02:07.004 --> 01:02:08.774 I think the discount code was unfortunate. 01:02:09.314 --> 01:02:10.455 I see how they did it like it 01:02:10.455 --> 01:02:11.265 was two weeks ago. 01:02:11.265 --> 01:02:12.734 It was long before the anniversary. 01:02:12.740 --> 01:02:15.044 And, and in that sort of situation, poly say, 01:02:15.049 --> 01:02:17.834 and Su has taken the name obviously of kind 01:02:17.839 --> 01:02:19.964 of poly technique, which is where the shooting 01:02:19.964 --> 01:02:22.995 occurred, the similar component being poly. 01:02:23.055 --> 01:02:24.884 Um, so I can see both sides. 01:02:24.884 --> 01:02:26.354 I can see why the Ccfr used it. 01:02:26.354 --> 01:02:27.944 I can see why people think it's distasteful. 01:02:28.395 --> 01:02:30.944 Um, I don't think it distracts from any of 01:02:30.944 --> 01:02:34.095 this though, just like, I don't think like gun 01:02:34.095 --> 01:02:36.765 owners like this, gun owners love the drama. 01:02:37.064 --> 01:02:38.024 We just follow the drama. 01:02:38.444 --> 01:02:39.734 The Trudeau does the band. 01:02:39.734 --> 01:02:40.515 We love the drama. 01:02:40.544 --> 01:02:41.564 Then it's the organizations, the 01:02:41.564 --> 01:02:44.265 drama just distract from all that human nature. 01:02:44.265 --> 01:02:44.805 6 21. 01:02:44.834 --> 01:02:47.984 The problem with it was in day one, it only 01:02:47.984 --> 01:02:49.185 impacted licensed gun. 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:51.870 Gary Price makes a tweet saying they're banning 01:02:51.870 --> 01:02:52.680 a bunch of hunting guns. 01:02:52.680 --> 01:02:55.259 Again, the problem is fundamentally 01:02:55.410 --> 01:02:57.690 it only impacts licensed gun owners. 01:02:58.020 --> 01:03:00.000 No criminals are losing any of their guns. 01:03:00.150 --> 01:03:02.730 If you are a criminal without a gun license, 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:05.670 you cannot be charged with the contravention 01:03:05.674 --> 01:03:06.750 of any of these laws. 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.270 You just can't, you're not actually contravening 01:03:09.275 --> 01:03:11.100 these laws, so they can't charge you with it. 01:03:11.790 --> 01:03:13.230 All of this stuff is a distraction. 01:03:14.340 --> 01:03:14.460 Wow. 01:03:14.970 --> 01:03:18.299 And I think in, in that regard, like people are 01:03:18.299 --> 01:03:20.880 gonna make a lot of hay of the and, and I think 01:03:21.060 --> 01:03:23.009 from what the rumors are, we're gonna see it 01:03:23.009 --> 01:03:24.900 probably continue for the next little bit, 01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:27.000 that things are gonna continue to go poorly 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:28.529 with this discount code and whatnot. 01:03:29.160 --> 01:03:32.070 Um, again, it doesn't really matter. 01:03:32.100 --> 01:03:35.610 Like we're supposed to be a country of serious 01:03:35.610 --> 01:03:37.290 people with a serious government spends a 01:03:37.290 --> 01:03:40.110 bunch of serious amounts of money on this stuff. 01:03:40.590 --> 01:03:43.710 Um, I'm a little bit personally, I'm actually 01:03:44.009 --> 01:03:45.420 like, again, Big. 01:03:45.720 --> 01:03:47.279 I'm not a hockey guy, so when I say I'm a big 01:03:47.279 --> 01:03:49.050 carry price fan, I'm a carry price fan for him 01:03:49.050 --> 01:03:50.910 standing up the way he has, I have tremendous 01:03:50.910 --> 01:03:53.580 amount of respect for the manner in which that 01:03:53.580 --> 01:03:55.259 man has stood up for mental health and gun 01:03:55.265 --> 01:03:56.070 rights in this country. 01:03:56.310 --> 01:03:56.400 Mm-hmm. 01:03:56.915 --> 01:03:59.220 . Um, for men, it's incredibly important. 01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:04.320 Um, but I'm also a bit insulted that this 01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:06.840 government produces a law that doesn't 01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:07.620 do anything good. 01:04:08.029 --> 01:04:10.259 Everyone says from police officers, 01:04:10.259 --> 01:04:13.310 chiefs, lawyers, gun advocates, industry 01:04:13.315 --> 01:04:16.350 members, even people that have had, you know, 01:04:16.355 --> 01:04:18.930 victims groups say, this won't work, government 01:04:18.935 --> 01:04:19.620 doesn't do anything. 01:04:19.830 --> 01:04:21.810 Anti-gun, criminal defense, lawyers, 01:04:21.815 --> 01:04:23.490 anti-gun groups say it's not gonna work. 01:04:23.495 --> 01:04:24.840 Government keeps going. 01:04:24.930 --> 01:04:26.430 They add a bunch of semi-automatic 01:04:26.430 --> 01:04:27.029 hunting guns to it. 01:04:27.830 --> 01:04:29.250 Everyone that's involved goes, this is banning a 01:04:29.250 --> 01:04:29.820 bunch of hunting guns. 01:04:30.120 --> 01:04:31.590 The government's response, you're lying, 01:04:32.310 --> 01:04:35.130 and NHL goal tenderer makes an Instagram post, 01:04:35.370 --> 01:04:37.259 and now the government takes it seriously. 01:04:37.350 --> 01:04:38.370 I find that, yeah. 01:04:38.460 --> 01:04:40.110 To use some extreme language, 01:04:40.230 --> 01:04:41.160 fucking insulting. 01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:41.790 Mm-hmm. 01:04:42.420 --> 01:04:44.850 because, , I count as much as he 01:04:44.850 --> 01:04:46.779 does, like mm-hmm. 01:04:46.950 --> 01:04:48.000 , I'm a citizen of Canada. 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:49.350 I pay taxes just like he does. 01:04:49.350 --> 01:04:51.029 I own a business, just like I'm assuming Carrie 01:04:51.029 --> 01:04:52.589 Price probably owns a business at this point. 01:04:53.129 --> 01:04:53.220 Mm-hmm. 01:04:53.625 --> 01:04:55.920 , why is it that he makes an Instagram post and 01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:58.470 Justin shows suddenly has to reconsider his list. 01:04:58.890 --> 01:05:01.950 But when countless witnesses, countless 01:05:01.950 --> 01:05:04.109 police officers, countless lawyers and 01:05:04.109 --> 01:05:05.910 countless stakeholders stand up and say 01:05:05.910 --> 01:05:07.650 the exact same fucking thing to him. 01:05:08.190 --> 01:05:10.529 He doesn't say a goddamn word except, oh, 01:05:10.535 --> 01:05:11.430 that's misinformation. 01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:12.120 That's lying. 01:05:12.150 --> 01:05:12.960 Don't believe the hype. 01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:15.390 We're not banning hunting guns like that is 01:05:15.390 --> 01:05:16.799 fundamentally offensive. 01:05:16.805 --> 01:05:18.960 And again, the drama around this promo 01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:21.089 code, the drama on the organizations, it's 01:05:21.089 --> 01:05:22.200 just a distraction. 01:05:22.560 --> 01:05:24.420 We got a government that is literally governing 01:05:24.420 --> 01:05:27.480 by Instagram and it's freaking bullshit. 01:05:27.900 --> 01:05:27.990 Right? 01:05:27.995 --> 01:05:29.700 Like, gun owners should be pissed about that, 01:05:29.970 --> 01:05:31.049 not about this stuff. 01:05:31.379 --> 01:05:32.790 They should be pissed at the fact that an 01:05:32.790 --> 01:05:35.700 Instagram post is what made Trudeau take notice. 01:05:35.759 --> 01:05:36.690 That's the world. 01:05:36.690 --> 01:05:37.740 That's I totally agree. 01:05:37.830 --> 01:05:40.500 And unfortunately, that's the world we live 01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:41.779 in of, it's a, it's a. 01:05:42.270 --> 01:05:45.030 We live in a world of circus and superficial 01:05:45.090 --> 01:05:47.670 and appearances, right? 01:05:47.670 --> 01:05:49.170 So if we're gonna be governed by public 01:05:49.170 --> 01:05:51.930 perception, how do we comport ourselves or 01:05:51.935 --> 01:05:55.680 use that in order to be able to achieve an 01:05:55.685 --> 01:05:57.690 end that's gonna be beneficial for everybody? 01:05:58.500 --> 01:05:59.490 I think so. 01:05:59.490 --> 01:06:01.290 All just a pine here that the, the one 01:06:01.290 --> 01:06:04.680 thing is that I've done is I've written 01:06:04.680 --> 01:06:08.040 to my member of, um, federal parliament and 01:06:08.040 --> 01:06:10.530 my member of provincial parliament legislature 01:06:10.710 --> 01:06:13.140 to say, I oppose this. 01:06:13.170 --> 01:06:14.700 I urge you to vote against this or to, 01:06:14.700 --> 01:06:16.560 to, in the case of provincial, they're not 01:06:16.565 --> 01:06:17.370 gonna vote against it. 01:06:17.370 --> 01:06:18.870 But to say, you know, thank you for, for 01:06:18.900 --> 01:06:20.190 what you're doing in standing up for gun 01:06:20.190 --> 01:06:21.990 owners, or basically to communicate with them 01:06:21.990 --> 01:06:24.000 to say that, Hey, this issue matters to me 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.140 and I vote based on it. 01:06:25.650 --> 01:06:25.740 Mm-hmm. 01:06:25.980 --> 01:06:27.960 . So letters, I think letters are, are 01:06:27.965 --> 01:06:30.690 polite and, and, you know, professional 01:06:30.690 --> 01:06:31.530 letters are useful. 01:06:32.190 --> 01:06:35.250 I think also for me, another silver lining 01:06:35.250 --> 01:06:39.240 here is that Bill C 21 is unenforceable. 01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:42.540 There is no enforcement mechanism to confiscate 01:06:42.600 --> 01:06:43.530 all these firearms. 01:06:43.590 --> 01:06:45.509 And that is a sign of hope. 01:06:45.870 --> 01:06:48.570 It's risky because any single person can 01:06:48.570 --> 01:06:50.070 be targeted and your house can be raided 01:06:50.070 --> 01:06:51.900 and they can, they'll find what they find. 01:06:52.259 --> 01:06:55.230 But the mass confiscation is absolutely, is 01:06:55.230 --> 01:06:56.220 just unenforceable. 01:06:56.220 --> 01:06:59.640 It's entirely reliant on the goodwill of 01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:04.050 individuals, and I think that a lot of individuals 01:07:04.050 --> 01:07:05.730 don't have that goodwill at this point. 01:07:05.730 --> 01:07:08.130 And so they will, if they will, defacto become 01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:10.680 outlaws, not because of what they've done 01:07:10.680 --> 01:07:13.080 or any kind of harmful intent, but simply 01:07:13.085 --> 01:07:15.300 because they've been standing on one side of 01:07:15.300 --> 01:07:17.340 the line, they've played the bargain, they got 01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:18.720 all their paperwork, they follow all the 01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:22.110 laws, and the government arbitrarily capriciously, 01:07:23.009 --> 01:07:25.200 perhaps even with malice, redrew the 01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:28.140 boundaries, repositioned the line and put us on 01:07:28.140 --> 01:07:28.920 the other side of it. 01:07:29.100 --> 01:07:32.520 So it's unenforceable and I take hope from that. 01:07:33.240 --> 01:07:34.620 Your earlier point though, of this 01:07:34.620 --> 01:07:36.300 legislation being incredibly harmful from 01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:37.030 the perspective of. 01:07:38.775 --> 01:07:40.545 It's ability to disillusion people. 01:07:40.755 --> 01:07:40.845 Mm-hmm. 01:07:40.845 --> 01:07:41.865 And the, the division that it 01:07:41.865 --> 01:07:42.795 causes and whatnot. 01:07:42.825 --> 01:07:46.215 Cuz I think the fracturing that 01:07:46.215 --> 01:07:48.225 all this is causing amongst society, the 01:07:48.225 --> 01:07:51.015 vitriolic, this didn't exist like for, for 01:07:51.015 --> 01:07:51.765 any new gun owners. 01:07:51.765 --> 01:07:53.955 Cause I, I forget that like, I am, I'm 01:07:54.165 --> 01:07:55.245 37, I'm not that old. 01:07:55.245 --> 01:07:58.485 I've been in guns for 12 or 14 years I guess now. 01:07:59.265 --> 01:08:01.365 Um, long enough that I remember the old Long Gun 01:08:01.725 --> 01:08:03.915 registry fight and back then there was not this 01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:05.175 sacrimonious attitude. 01:08:05.355 --> 01:08:09.255 If you were a gun owner, it would be maybe, maybe 01:08:09.255 --> 01:08:12.495 one in 10 Canadians would be like really anti-gun. 01:08:12.555 --> 01:08:13.695 You know, like most of 'em were kind of 01:08:13.700 --> 01:08:15.465 just like, yeah, okay. 01:08:15.465 --> 01:08:17.325 Like if that's, I'm not really into it, but Cool. 01:08:17.355 --> 01:08:19.215 You know, that was the majority of people. 01:08:19.575 --> 01:08:19.605 Mm. 01:08:19.605 --> 01:08:21.615 Cause we kind of accepted that we didn't have 01:08:21.615 --> 01:08:22.904 the US' gun problem. 01:08:22.904 --> 01:08:24.375 That was the, that was Canada. 01:08:24.375 --> 01:08:26.145 If you think about growing up under crutch 01:08:26.145 --> 01:08:29.145 and then under Harper, most people would think, 01:08:29.150 --> 01:08:30.555 oh yeah, we used to think of ourselves as a 01:08:30.555 --> 01:08:32.715 country that didn't have America's gun problem. 01:08:33.225 --> 01:08:35.085 And now Canadians do think we have 01:08:35.085 --> 01:08:35.525 that problem, but. 01:08:36.045 --> 01:08:37.335 The number hasn't changed. 01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:37.715 Right? 01:08:37.935 --> 01:08:39.045 The homicide rate has remained 01:08:39.045 --> 01:08:39.765 largely the same. 01:08:40.515 --> 01:08:42.045 So it becomes more when you say like, 01:08:42.045 --> 01:08:43.125 how do we combat this? 01:08:43.125 --> 01:08:45.795 It's, is it, is it a case of public perception? 01:08:46.005 --> 01:08:47.654 Do we need to get more people to carry price 01:08:47.654 --> 01:08:49.455 on side to support us? 01:08:49.545 --> 01:08:54.015 I don't know, because we haven't really changed, 01:08:54.465 --> 01:08:56.955 like the perception has shifted for no reason. 01:08:57.435 --> 01:08:57.555 Mm-hmm. 01:08:57.855 --> 01:08:59.415 , and unfortunately I think gun owners kind 01:08:59.415 --> 01:09:00.194 of have to accept that. 01:09:00.194 --> 01:09:02.115 Like when I say no reason, we all know the 01:09:02.115 --> 01:09:04.425 reason the government has shifted the perspective 01:09:04.485 --> 01:09:06.944 by continuing to make guns sound more dangerous 01:09:06.944 --> 01:09:07.694 at every juncture. 01:09:08.985 --> 01:09:11.775 And I think you gotta be realistic as a gun 01:09:11.775 --> 01:09:13.095 owner go, how do you fight the government? 01:09:13.785 --> 01:09:17.415 How can we possibly beat the government at pr? 01:09:18.135 --> 01:09:19.845 Well, that's pretty tough. 01:09:20.325 --> 01:09:22.035 So you have to look at other alternatives. 01:09:22.154 --> 01:09:24.345 And I think that's the realistic option that is 01:09:24.755 --> 01:09:26.895 confronting gun owners now is it's not a case 01:09:26.900 --> 01:09:29.654 of we need to make guns acceptable in Canadian 01:09:29.654 --> 01:09:32.295 society because that's never gonna happen. 01:09:32.610 --> 01:09:33.990 Let's just get that right out the window. 01:09:34.260 --> 01:09:35.490 Let's, why do I say that? 01:09:35.490 --> 01:09:37.110 Well, let's look at the most gun accepting 01:09:37.110 --> 01:09:37.860 country in the world. 01:09:37.950 --> 01:09:38.550 America. 01:09:39.150 --> 01:09:40.590 Are guns controversial in America? 01:09:40.650 --> 01:09:41.190 Yes. 01:09:41.730 --> 01:09:46.050 Okay, so in the most gun contented world 01:09:46.110 --> 01:09:48.150 like country, with the most guns, it's 01:09:48.155 --> 01:09:49.260 still controversial. 01:09:49.470 --> 01:09:51.360 It doesn't seem likely that we're going to 01:09:51.360 --> 01:09:53.160 move from a gun that, or a country that 01:09:53.160 --> 01:09:57.030 generally is mediocre to disliking guns, to a 01:09:57.030 --> 01:09:59.010 country that loves guns, that seems unlikely. 01:10:00.030 --> 01:10:01.860 We're much better off just using our 01:10:01.860 --> 01:10:02.760 political leverage. 01:10:03.420 --> 01:10:05.610 The dairy farmers of Canada have been proudly 01:10:05.615 --> 01:10:08.070 propping up supply management for decades 01:10:08.070 --> 01:10:10.020 through nothing other than political will. 01:10:10.650 --> 01:10:12.600 They don't go out there and try and make people 01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:13.590 feel great about milk. 01:10:13.590 --> 01:10:15.180 That's actually the dairy Farmers of America with 01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:15.960 their milk campaign. 01:10:16.230 --> 01:10:17.640 They just quietly go about and do 01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:18.960 the political work they have to do. 01:10:19.770 --> 01:10:21.570 And I, and some people may hear this and 01:10:21.575 --> 01:10:23.220 go, well, that sounds like nefarious gun 01:10:23.225 --> 01:10:24.540 lobby backroom stuff. 01:10:24.540 --> 01:10:24.690 No. 01:10:24.695 --> 01:10:27.090 What I mean by that is just be freaking honest. 01:10:27.240 --> 01:10:28.170 Yeah, just stand up and go. 01:10:28.170 --> 01:10:28.350 Yeah. 01:10:28.350 --> 01:10:29.580 We're serious about public safety. 01:10:29.585 --> 01:10:30.110 Absolutely. 01:10:31.019 --> 01:10:31.890 This is what we want. 01:10:31.890 --> 01:10:34.500 We are the experts on public safety with guns 01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:35.519 cuz we own them all. 01:10:35.790 --> 01:10:36.750 We're the ones that keep them. 01:10:36.750 --> 01:10:39.030 We know the licensing regime because 01:10:39.030 --> 01:10:40.050 we have them. 01:10:40.410 --> 01:10:41.850 Nobody wants to keep you lean on all those things. 01:10:41.855 --> 01:10:43.320 Families, nobody wants to keep our, 01:10:43.320 --> 01:10:45.840 our husbands wives, kids safer than we do. 01:10:46.650 --> 01:10:49.350 And, and to be honest, if you take it back 01:10:49.355 --> 01:10:52.200 to, to gain, cuz people like to use analogies. 01:10:53.220 --> 01:10:56.460 This whole convince the entire public is, is 01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:58.440 kind of the equivalent of like trying to run like 01:10:58.660 --> 01:11:01.019 a student union election when you're trying 01:11:01.019 --> 01:11:03.150 to convince the, the principle of something. 01:11:03.540 --> 01:11:03.750 Mm-hmm. 01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:06.570 like two separate entities here. 01:11:06.575 --> 01:11:06.660 Mm-hmm. 01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:08.280 , like we can convince the public the 01:11:08.280 --> 01:11:08.820 guns are great. 01:11:08.820 --> 01:11:09.120 Yeah, sure. 01:11:09.120 --> 01:11:11.519 Or we could convince 338 people to not 01:11:11.519 --> 01:11:12.120 fuck with them. 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:12.750 Mm-hmm. 01:11:13.320 --> 01:11:13.980 , that's it. 01:11:14.430 --> 01:11:18.465 There's 338 people on one side and 36 01:11:18.465 --> 01:11:19.380 million on the other. 01:11:19.620 --> 01:11:21.660 Which one would you rather convince? 01:11:21.660 --> 01:11:23.730 Like it is literally less of 338. 01:11:23.730 --> 01:11:26.400 People like to be very clear, the gun community 01:11:26.490 --> 01:11:30.180 needs to convince 338 people in Ottawa. 01:11:31.050 --> 01:11:33.179 That the licenses they hold and the gun system 01:11:33.179 --> 01:11:35.160 we have works 338 people. 01:11:35.219 --> 01:11:36.960 There's 2.3 million of us. 01:11:36.990 --> 01:11:37.980 There's 3 38 of them. 01:11:39.059 --> 01:11:42.630 We used to work on that math and it used to work. 01:11:43.230 --> 01:11:45.360 Now we've got this whole, well, let's convince 01:11:45.360 --> 01:11:47.070 the public first and let it trickle down where 01:11:47.070 --> 01:11:49.320 we tell the public and then slowly over time, 01:11:49.320 --> 01:11:50.790 carry price hears about it and carry price 01:11:50.790 --> 01:11:51.599 makes Instagram post. 01:11:51.690 --> 01:11:53.400 And Carrie Price makes it and Trudeau sees it and 01:11:53.400 --> 01:11:54.240 then he changes the law. 01:11:54.510 --> 01:11:57.210 We were better off just talking to Trudeau when 01:11:57.210 --> 01:11:59.910 he used to get 6,000 emails and letters in one 01:11:59.910 --> 01:12:01.230 day go, oh Jesus Christ. 01:12:01.230 --> 01:12:02.400 No, nevermind. 01:12:02.460 --> 01:12:03.330 I'm backing off. 01:12:03.990 --> 01:12:04.800 That was better. 01:12:05.580 --> 01:12:08.849 So if we're governed by public opinion, how do 01:12:08.849 --> 01:12:14.040 we, how do we make this something that those who 01:12:14.040 --> 01:12:17.880 are unaffected, who don't own firearms or have no 01:12:18.320 --> 01:12:20.460 interest in firearms, how do we bring this on 01:12:20.465 --> 01:12:23.670 the table so that they actually have a stake 01:12:23.670 --> 01:12:25.679 in their interested in conveying their 01:12:25.679 --> 01:12:27.269 concerns to government? 01:12:27.929 --> 01:12:29.760 I don't think this should be to be clear. 01:12:30.675 --> 01:12:32.055 If you don't have a stake in firearms and you 01:12:32.055 --> 01:12:33.525 don't have the knowledge and you haven't taken 01:12:33.525 --> 01:12:35.985 it upon yourself to go and learn the existing 01:12:35.985 --> 01:12:38.475 infrastructure of laws and regimes, storage 01:12:38.475 --> 01:12:41.865 rules, regulations, I don't really give 01:12:41.870 --> 01:12:43.065 a shit what you're feeling on guns is 01:12:43.065 --> 01:12:43.755 cuz it's a feeling. 01:12:44.145 --> 01:12:48.105 It's not knowledge, it's a feeling like I'm 01:12:48.110 --> 01:12:49.245 scared of small spaces. 01:12:49.245 --> 01:12:50.725 There's nothing wrong with them, I'm 01:12:50.725 --> 01:12:51.645 just scared of them. 01:12:51.645 --> 01:12:52.215 It's a feeling. 01:12:52.785 --> 01:12:55.755 I think we can, um, educate, and I don't 01:12:55.755 --> 01:12:57.645 mean pre-chat, I'm guilty of preaching that, 01:12:57.645 --> 01:13:00.735 but educate, uh, share information with our, 01:13:01.245 --> 01:13:03.435 uh, family and friends and colleagues about, 01:13:03.435 --> 01:13:05.115 and we don't even have to mention the word guns. 01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:05.415 Oh. 01:13:05.955 --> 01:13:07.515 And I don't know how this would come up, uh, 01:13:07.665 --> 01:13:10.245 but there are people in my own garage. 01:13:10.575 --> 01:13:12.075 I'm thinking of the person I live with. 01:13:12.975 --> 01:13:15.015 Really care about guns or know much about them. 01:13:15.045 --> 01:13:18.255 But she understands that a lot of everything 01:13:18.255 --> 01:13:20.025 Daniel just said, she would agree with that. 01:13:20.025 --> 01:13:23.175 It's, it's, um, not about the 338 01:13:23.295 --> 01:13:25.815 individuals, but about the wrong headedness. 01:13:25.815 --> 01:13:28.485 The nefarious, the sneakiness of what is 01:13:28.485 --> 01:13:30.405 happening legislatively. 01:13:30.585 --> 01:13:31.965 Now, maybe this is a little very, again, 01:13:31.965 --> 01:13:33.705 back to this small self-selecting sample. 01:13:33.705 --> 01:13:35.265 Most people don't give a hoot about 01:13:35.265 --> 01:13:37.875 legislative policy or regulatory affairs. 01:13:37.935 --> 01:13:38.895 That's just not their thing. 01:13:38.895 --> 01:13:41.985 So to your question, how do you reach people? 01:13:42.135 --> 01:13:45.765 How does a non-gun person or someone who 01:13:45.765 --> 01:13:49.125 doesn't have, um, for whom guns don't really 01:13:49.125 --> 01:13:50.565 matter in their day to day life, how do 01:13:50.565 --> 01:13:51.585 we reach those people? 01:13:52.485 --> 01:13:54.675 I don't know, other than the old faithful, take 01:13:54.675 --> 01:13:56.145 them to the range and put a smile on their. 01:13:57.525 --> 01:13:59.595 . What, what about from the perspective of 01:13:59.625 --> 01:14:02.775 like Canadian Taxpayers Federation talking about 01:14:02.780 --> 01:14:04.215 the price involved and people say, well, I 01:14:04.215 --> 01:14:05.865 don't care about guns, but geez, that's a 01:14:05.865 --> 01:14:08.145 lot of money we could put elsewhere or, yes. 01:14:08.175 --> 01:14:10.455 Uh, people saying they're confiscating property 01:14:10.905 --> 01:14:11.865 doesn't, doesn't matter. 01:14:11.865 --> 01:14:12.585 It's not mine. 01:14:12.585 --> 01:14:15.495 But if there's a, uh, analogy that could be 01:14:15.495 --> 01:14:17.625 made that say, well, maybe your property 01:14:17.630 --> 01:14:20.955 could be confiscated like in real estate or 01:14:22.155 --> 01:14:23.205 without compensation. 01:14:23.625 --> 01:14:24.735 Without compensation. 01:14:24.735 --> 01:14:26.685 I mean, may, maybe talking about the 01:14:26.690 --> 01:14:28.995 firearm issue is ancillary, although 01:14:28.995 --> 01:14:31.245 of high importance of those who are affected, 01:14:31.250 --> 01:14:32.205 who own firearms. 01:14:32.565 --> 01:14:34.905 But maybe the bigger conversation is for 01:14:34.995 --> 01:14:36.855 the populace to be writing their letters 01:14:36.855 --> 01:14:39.225 in is something that's going to be how 01:14:39.225 --> 01:14:40.185 this is being enact. 01:14:40.860 --> 01:14:42.750 Well, the, the example, one example, maybe it 01:14:42.750 --> 01:14:44.340 was one of you guys who, who mentioned it, so 01:14:44.970 --> 01:14:45.810 credit where credits due. 01:14:46.170 --> 01:14:47.460 But people have used the example of 01:14:47.460 --> 01:14:48.870 cars or, uh, cars. 01:14:48.875 --> 01:14:50.100 You know, let's say the government says we're 01:14:50.105 --> 01:14:52.500 banning, uh, we're, we're confiscating, um, 01:14:52.620 --> 01:14:53.940 fossil fuel engines. 01:14:54.270 --> 01:14:57.240 Cars with fossil fuel engines we're, um, date 01:14:57.245 --> 01:14:58.470 acts, let's say 2035. 01:14:58.470 --> 01:15:00.500 We're confiscating them all and we're not 01:15:00.500 --> 01:15:01.200 gonna compensate you. 01:15:01.650 --> 01:15:03.030 Is is that on the dock? 01:15:03.030 --> 01:15:03.930 I don't think so. 01:15:03.930 --> 01:15:05.460 Is it, is it imaginable? 01:15:05.460 --> 01:15:07.200 Well, it's not crazy. 01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:08.820 Or any object. 01:15:09.480 --> 01:15:12.030 Any object that the government decides we 01:15:12.030 --> 01:15:15.510 don't like these, we're confiscating them and 01:15:15.510 --> 01:15:17.370 we're gonna do it in a sneaky, devious way. 01:15:17.375 --> 01:15:19.290 Running a disinformation campaign saying that 01:15:19.290 --> 01:15:20.790 people who own these objects are evil 01:15:20.790 --> 01:15:23.790 people and past laws sneaking amendments 01:15:23.790 --> 01:15:24.540 at the last minute. 01:15:25.500 --> 01:15:28.860 It's, it's not, um, it's not hard to 01:15:28.860 --> 01:15:31.170 imagine this happening for other objects. 01:15:31.200 --> 01:15:32.550 Maybe that's a way to go. 01:15:33.240 --> 01:15:33.690 I don't know. 01:15:35.550 --> 01:15:36.960 It's tough though, cuz you always think 01:15:37.259 --> 01:15:38.340 on the opposite side. 01:15:38.344 --> 01:15:40.200 Like if you do the old red team thought 01:15:40.200 --> 01:15:43.290 experiment thing, that there's gonna 01:15:43.290 --> 01:15:45.990 be like when you do that, you think, let's 01:15:45.990 --> 01:15:47.490 try and do the public sentiment thing. 01:15:47.490 --> 01:15:49.710 Let's try and get people frustrated with the 01:15:49.715 --> 01:15:51.870 process that this is an amendment instead 01:15:51.870 --> 01:15:53.040 of like the OIC thing. 01:15:53.040 --> 01:15:54.360 I tried that so hard to try and 01:15:54.365 --> 01:15:55.050 impress on people. 01:15:55.050 --> 01:15:56.759 This was not a democratic solution. 01:15:56.790 --> 01:15:58.469 It was effectively an executive order. 01:15:58.800 --> 01:15:59.250 No one cared. 01:15:59.280 --> 01:16:02.040 Um, it went exactly nowhere, unfortunately. 01:16:02.040 --> 01:16:02.130 Mm-hmm. 01:16:02.429 --> 01:16:02.490 . Yeah. 01:16:02.519 --> 01:16:04.860 Which might color my response here, but 01:16:05.429 --> 01:16:11.610 um, with, I think also to, from a political 01:16:11.615 --> 01:16:15.960 analyst perspective, true to, has ushered in 01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:19.019 a new era in much the same way as the Fords. 01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:22.410 Um, with the Ford government in Toronto 01:16:22.410 --> 01:16:24.900 and Ontario, they've run incredibly effective 01:16:24.900 --> 01:16:26.730 grassroots social media campaigns that 01:16:26.730 --> 01:16:28.620 have been marked with incredibly low costs. 01:16:28.860 --> 01:16:30.929 If anyone follows politics, like they spend 01:16:30.929 --> 01:16:33.090 very little and they have incredibly large 01:16:33.090 --> 01:16:34.889 reach on social media and it's very popular 01:16:34.889 --> 01:16:37.590 and effectively is in some ways very similar 01:16:37.590 --> 01:16:38.519 to the Trudeau campaign. 01:16:38.969 --> 01:16:40.920 And that's why I say it's a new era because 01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.590 he's entered this era of efficient politics 01:16:44.160 --> 01:16:47.309 that is only attainable by social media because 01:16:47.309 --> 01:16:49.710 you have to have the ability to pull very 01:16:49.715 --> 01:16:53.309 tight geographic areas on very specific issues 01:16:53.309 --> 01:16:55.170 to get data that allows you to extrapolate 01:16:55.170 --> 01:16:55.769 this stuff out. 01:16:55.775 --> 01:16:59.040 And I worry that if gun owners try and 01:16:59.040 --> 01:17:00.210 do this political. 01:17:00.745 --> 01:17:02.205 I'm like, try and change everyone's 01:17:02.210 --> 01:17:03.525 mind thing first. 01:17:04.155 --> 01:17:06.255 That effectively will kind of be in a game 01:17:06.255 --> 01:17:08.745 of whackable against the opposition. 01:17:09.105 --> 01:17:11.055 And as much as we're constantly trying to 01:17:11.055 --> 01:17:13.575 whack the anti-gun mos down, be like, Nope, 01:17:13.605 --> 01:17:14.595 nope, nope, nope, nope. 01:17:15.224 --> 01:17:16.695 There's gonna be a strategist out there 01:17:16.695 --> 01:17:19.514 constantly finding new populations of people in 01:17:19.514 --> 01:17:22.065 writings that we're gonna have to go and find. 01:17:22.065 --> 01:17:23.985 So until you kind of get like, you're kind of 01:17:23.985 --> 01:17:27.165 gonna need to get a, a decent, like, you know, 01:17:27.165 --> 01:17:30.555 a 20% message incursion into every given writing 01:17:31.785 --> 01:17:32.865 for that to be effective. 01:17:32.925 --> 01:17:34.485 And that's where these strategies 01:17:34.490 --> 01:17:35.055 start to fall down. 01:17:35.059 --> 01:17:36.795 I think this is where this gets into the 01:17:36.795 --> 01:17:39.165 larger discussion of gun owner politics 01:17:39.165 --> 01:17:41.955 in Canada where it's incredibly frustrating 01:17:41.985 --> 01:17:45.165 cuz 2.3 million people with gun licenses in 01:17:45.165 --> 01:17:49.815 Canada constitute one of absolutely one of the 01:17:49.815 --> 01:17:52.665 largest identifiable vote blocks in the country. 01:17:53.175 --> 01:17:55.215 Like if you can say there's a single thing 01:17:55.215 --> 01:17:57.735 that ties everyone together, that and 01:17:57.735 --> 01:17:59.355 Ford pickup truck ownership are kind of 01:17:59.360 --> 01:18:00.285 the two big ones, right? 01:18:00.285 --> 01:18:01.365 Like those are the big ones. 01:18:02.025 --> 01:18:06.045 But unfortunately because our country's so big, 01:18:06.375 --> 01:18:08.955 2.3 million people spread out across 338 01:18:08.955 --> 01:18:13.455 ridings does not equate to enough votes to sway 01:18:13.514 --> 01:18:15.434 most electoral outcomes. 01:18:16.125 --> 01:18:17.445 And especially, especially in this era of 01:18:17.445 --> 01:18:18.675 new efficient politics. 01:18:19.065 --> 01:18:21.644 Where I think unfortunately, unless 01:18:21.644 --> 01:18:23.625 there's a way, unless someone can come up 01:18:23.625 --> 01:18:27.705 with a PR campaign in the next three years 01:18:27.705 --> 01:18:30.644 is going to convert urban Toronto and GV RD 01:18:30.644 --> 01:18:33.644 voters to pro gun, like straight up more than 01:18:33.650 --> 01:18:38.595 50% pro gun, um, I think that's effectively a 01:18:38.595 --> 01:18:40.514 waste of money to invest in, to be quite honest. 01:18:40.905 --> 01:18:42.375 Kinda like, cuz again, this. 01:18:43.525 --> 01:18:44.685 To add some context. 01:18:45.495 --> 01:18:47.115 Social media plays into all this stuff 01:18:47.115 --> 01:18:48.705 in a dramatic way, but social media is also 01:18:49.115 --> 01:18:51.735 incredibly censored for guns like all of us. 01:18:51.740 --> 01:18:53.805 Nick, you, Travis, we've all talked about Sure. 01:18:53.865 --> 01:18:56.175 That you try and put stuff on Facebook or 01:18:56.175 --> 01:18:57.945 Instagram and it's incredibly restricted 01:18:57.945 --> 01:18:59.505 by being gun content. 01:18:59.925 --> 01:19:00.135 Yeah. 01:19:00.405 --> 01:19:01.995 Even if you're not gun content that 01:19:01.995 --> 01:19:04.065 you're putting up, but you're a gun business. 01:19:04.485 --> 01:19:06.255 I just got notice back from TikTok 01:19:06.260 --> 01:19:06.795 the other day. 01:19:06.855 --> 01:19:09.105 I said, sorry, you're not gonna be shown 01:19:09.105 --> 01:19:10.125 to the same audience. 01:19:10.305 --> 01:19:11.445 And I'm looking through what I have. 01:19:11.445 --> 01:19:13.635 There's, there's one video of me walking 01:19:13.635 --> 01:19:17.925 with a rifle over and one of a scope and not 01:19:17.925 --> 01:19:20.025 talking about guns, not promoting guns. 01:19:20.145 --> 01:19:22.215 The one that was looking at being promoters on 01:19:22.215 --> 01:19:23.085 survival equipment. 01:19:23.175 --> 01:19:24.015 They said, Nope, sorry. 01:19:25.635 --> 01:19:26.205 And I think that. 01:19:27.765 --> 01:19:30.225 And that's like I get, I get, I used to run 01:19:30.225 --> 01:19:31.965 Father, my biggest one was Father's Day sales. 01:19:32.055 --> 01:19:33.645 I'd run Father's Day sales from magazine 01:19:33.645 --> 01:19:35.025 subscriptions, used to make a good 01:19:35.030 --> 01:19:36.165 amount of money off the Facebook ads. 01:19:36.165 --> 01:19:37.965 Now I can't even get the ad approved and we 01:19:37.965 --> 01:19:40.335 don't sell guns I guess, you know, but we promote 01:19:40.335 --> 01:19:42.135 the sale of firearms and ammunition apparently, 01:19:42.135 --> 01:19:42.765 so we're banned. 01:19:43.755 --> 01:19:46.515 When you consider like again, pulling back in 01:19:46.515 --> 01:19:49.095 five or 10 years time, where do we want to be? 01:19:49.125 --> 01:19:50.805 Well, we're probably not gonna be allowed on 01:19:50.805 --> 01:19:53.955 social media straight up the way things are going. 01:19:53.955 --> 01:19:56.025 It's very unlikely that based on its current 01:19:56.030 --> 01:19:57.705 ownership change, Twitter may be an exception, 01:19:57.705 --> 01:19:59.265 but Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, there will 01:19:59.265 --> 01:20:01.515 probably be no gun content allowed, right? 01:20:01.515 --> 01:20:03.285 I mean there used to be a gun emoji. 01:20:03.405 --> 01:20:04.605 If you doubt that there was a straight 01:20:04.605 --> 01:20:06.435 up gun emoji, it's now a squirt gun, right? 01:20:06.615 --> 01:20:08.595 So we are getting kicked out of the 01:20:08.595 --> 01:20:10.695 social media circus where politics will be 01:20:10.700 --> 01:20:13.005 more and more important again, leading against 01:20:13.010 --> 01:20:14.475 the end conclusion that gun owners really 01:20:14.475 --> 01:20:16.695 need to invest in the politics side of things 01:20:16.845 --> 01:20:19.485 cuz we unfortunately have to confront 01:20:19.490 --> 01:20:20.355 the stacked deck. 01:20:20.595 --> 01:20:24.045 That winning the public debate is to 01:20:24.045 --> 01:20:26.325 be quite blunt, I think impossible. 01:20:27.555 --> 01:20:29.685 Uh, if the gun ownership, if, if gun 01:20:29.685 --> 01:20:32.355 ownership in Canada is going to become widely 01:20:32.355 --> 01:20:34.515 acceptable, it's going to do so organically. 01:20:35.055 --> 01:20:37.395 And I say that by way of like it's going to be, 01:20:38.355 --> 01:20:39.945 uh, to be quite honest in a circumstance that 01:20:39.945 --> 01:20:40.785 probably none of us want. 01:20:41.655 --> 01:20:41.925 Hmm. 01:20:42.105 --> 01:20:43.965 Through circumstances like a war breaking out 01:20:43.965 --> 01:20:46.335 or some sort of unrest where people feel so 01:20:46.905 --> 01:20:49.035 insecure that they feel that their only way of 01:20:49.065 --> 01:20:50.835 being secure is having a gun of their own. 01:20:50.865 --> 01:20:52.725 And some people may think that's a great thing. 01:20:52.725 --> 01:20:53.925 I personally don't. 01:20:54.345 --> 01:20:55.485 I think it'd be a bad situation. 01:20:55.490 --> 01:20:55.545 Yeah. 01:20:55.635 --> 01:20:55.725 Mm-hmm. 01:20:56.745 --> 01:20:59.310 . Um, but I don't think Canada, with our 2.3 01:20:59.310 --> 01:21:01.395 million licensed gun owners and all the money 01:21:01.395 --> 01:21:03.675 that we donate to any organization is going 01:21:03.705 --> 01:21:06.765 to be able to sway the court of public opinion 01:21:06.915 --> 01:21:08.685 to 50% in favor of guns. 01:21:09.255 --> 01:21:09.345 Mm-hmm. 01:21:09.585 --> 01:21:11.325 . So if you view that as the outcome, then 01:21:11.325 --> 01:21:12.615 you have to go What are alternatives? 01:21:12.615 --> 01:21:15.405 Well, the alternatives are to work directly 01:21:15.405 --> 01:21:17.685 on the political actions, work directly 01:21:17.690 --> 01:21:19.005 with politicians, work directly with 01:21:19.010 --> 01:21:20.355 parties, and I don't. 01:21:20.745 --> 01:21:22.635 Again, it's not partisan, cuz this shouldn't 01:21:22.635 --> 01:21:23.865 be a partisan issue. 01:21:23.865 --> 01:21:25.935 We should be availing ourselves to every party 01:21:25.940 --> 01:21:27.915 to say, Hey, I'm here to provide you with 01:21:27.915 --> 01:21:31.485 the expert knowledge you need to know about 01:21:31.875 --> 01:21:33.795 gun stuff so that you can pass good policy 01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:34.655 and keep people safer. 01:21:34.655 --> 01:21:34.935 Mm-hmm. 01:21:35.415 --> 01:21:39.075 . And so it's really, it's, it's almost naively 01:21:39.075 --> 01:21:41.925 altruistic to say so, but I, I just don't see, 01:21:41.925 --> 01:21:43.455 I think we have to be realistic about our, 01:21:43.455 --> 01:21:45.644 our, you know, the first thing, whenever you have 01:21:45.644 --> 01:21:46.455 a plan, have a goal. 01:21:46.785 --> 01:21:48.105 What is our goal with this public? 01:21:48.285 --> 01:21:50.325 What is our goal with the, like, if someone 01:21:50.325 --> 01:21:52.455 can tell me what the goal is, like maybe you 01:21:52.455 --> 01:21:53.235 can, what's the goal? 01:21:53.235 --> 01:21:54.945 If we're trying to reach out to the, how, what is 01:21:54.950 --> 01:21:55.965 the goal of this public? 01:21:56.805 --> 01:21:58.455 Can we convince 50%? 01:21:58.695 --> 01:21:59.875 What's the percentage we're reach. 01:22:01.050 --> 01:22:02.820 I think, how many do we need to reach? 01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:04.350 How do you change a conversation? 01:22:04.350 --> 01:22:05.700 How do you find a public trend? 01:22:05.700 --> 01:22:09.270 That's something that you can jump on that is 01:22:09.540 --> 01:22:11.610 trending if we're gonna use the social media. 01:22:11.820 --> 01:22:15.870 Um, but if you jump on a trend, how, how resilient 01:22:15.870 --> 01:22:16.560 does that change? 01:22:17.160 --> 01:22:18.420 Like this carry price thing, for 01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:18.900 example, right? 01:22:18.900 --> 01:22:19.950 Like a lot of people might be shifting 01:22:19.950 --> 01:22:21.270 their views, maybe some people have shifted 01:22:21.270 --> 01:22:23.220 their views going, oh, he's, he's my idol. 01:22:23.220 --> 01:22:24.480 And he says It's i'll changed my view. 01:22:24.750 --> 01:22:26.340 If that's all it took, it's not a 01:22:26.340 --> 01:22:27.240 very entrenched view. 01:22:27.245 --> 01:22:28.710 You'll probably shift back. 01:22:29.100 --> 01:22:31.200 I, I guess it's depends on what the trend is. 01:22:31.260 --> 01:22:33.540 I mean, like the, the trend of when we talk 01:22:33.540 --> 01:22:36.180 about hunting or, uh, selfsufficiency 01:22:36.510 --> 01:22:39.480 through C people wanted to protection. 01:22:39.480 --> 01:22:40.890 They wanted to be self sufficient. 01:22:41.340 --> 01:22:45.090 Uh, I, I think framing the conversation a 01:22:45.090 --> 01:22:46.920 little bit differently and having firearms 01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:48.600 just happen to be a part of it as opposed 01:22:48.600 --> 01:22:50.460 to from my cold dead. 01:22:50.925 --> 01:22:53.445 Hands and having the gun front and center might 01:22:53.445 --> 01:22:55.785 be the way, cuz you're right Meta, which owns 01:22:55.845 --> 01:22:58.005 Facebook and Instagram and Google, which owns 01:22:58.005 --> 01:23:00.825 YouTube and they're, they're not allowing 01:23:01.665 --> 01:23:03.915 gun content in the way they have in the past. 01:23:04.095 --> 01:23:06.315 But there are, there is other content that they 01:23:06.320 --> 01:23:08.895 will want to see on there because it's trending 01:23:08.900 --> 01:23:11.205 and because that's how they make their money 01:23:11.205 --> 01:23:12.225 is through the views. 01:23:12.645 --> 01:23:14.445 Uh, maybe there's a way to just have 01:23:15.135 --> 01:23:16.815 the conversation change a little bit. 01:23:16.845 --> 01:23:19.665 Not that we want to, but just from a realistic 01:23:19.665 --> 01:23:20.805 standpoint, like you say. 01:23:22.335 --> 01:23:23.025 Oh, I think it could. 01:23:23.175 --> 01:23:24.525 And I think that's one of those, it has to be 01:23:24.525 --> 01:23:25.395 reactive, like you said. 01:23:25.395 --> 01:23:27.945 It's gotta be, you gotta see the trends and 01:23:27.945 --> 01:23:29.865 respond to 'em, kind of grab 'em when you can. 01:23:30.375 --> 01:23:33.525 Um, and I think react to, to trends that 01:23:33.525 --> 01:23:34.455 are occurring in the real world and 01:23:34.455 --> 01:23:35.445 reflect them back. 01:23:35.865 --> 01:23:38.505 Um, I think that's kind of like maybe a 01:23:38.505 --> 01:23:40.185 bit antithetical to my personal nature. 01:23:40.245 --> 01:23:42.225 I tend to be a bit more like, I just kind of 01:23:42.225 --> 01:23:45.165 wanna plan and, and just get on those tracks and 01:23:45.165 --> 01:23:47.355 roll down 'em rather than kind of react. 01:23:47.355 --> 01:23:49.245 And, and that's probably where I do view a bit 01:23:49.245 --> 01:23:53.235 of the like, There are a lot of things that I 01:23:53.235 --> 01:23:55.875 think public sentiment is counter to what our 01:23:55.875 --> 01:23:59.835 politicians do, that our politicians just don't 01:23:59.835 --> 01:24:02.625 let get raised to the issue of any kind of 01:24:02.625 --> 01:24:03.705 debate because mm-hmm. 01:24:03.945 --> 01:24:04.455 , it's been settled. 01:24:04.485 --> 01:24:06.405 I mean, supply management is one. 01:24:06.825 --> 01:24:08.505 Most Canadians don't like supply management. 01:24:08.565 --> 01:24:11.155 It raises prices, you name it. 01:24:11.575 --> 01:24:14.505 But it's just a non-starter for the ndp, 01:24:14.565 --> 01:24:16.965 the liberals, and the conservatives because 01:24:16.965 --> 01:24:18.765 those people that are involved in SP punishment 01:24:18.765 --> 01:24:20.415 have effectively communicated their 01:24:20.415 --> 01:24:21.795 interest to politicians. 01:24:21.795 --> 01:24:23.445 And now the politicians have those interests in 01:24:23.445 --> 01:24:24.285 their best heart too. 01:24:24.290 --> 01:24:27.495 So, you know, we, we see a road there and it's 01:24:27.495 --> 01:24:30.495 kind of, I guess I also must say perhaps there's 01:24:30.495 --> 01:24:33.675 a bit of, um, unknown bias that I haven't 01:24:33.675 --> 01:24:34.665 recognized before this. 01:24:34.670 --> 01:24:37.335 But as a gun industry member, perhaps I simply 01:24:37.335 --> 01:24:39.675 draw more parallels with the dairy industry than. 01:24:40.545 --> 01:24:42.015 The ability to sway public 01:24:42.015 --> 01:24:43.695 opinion . Sure, sure. 01:24:44.355 --> 01:24:46.845 There's a couple aspects also that I think we 01:24:46.845 --> 01:24:48.405 haven't mentioned yet that I, that I think 01:24:48.405 --> 01:24:51.435 are worth mentioning, and one is that guns 01:24:51.435 --> 01:24:55.035 are, uh, unfortunately a terrible political. 01:24:56.519 --> 01:24:59.219 Um, thing like we don't align on gun ownership of 01:24:59.219 --> 01:25:00.809 those 2.3 million voters. 01:25:01.860 --> 01:25:03.839 There's, I suspect, as many who vote 01:25:03.839 --> 01:25:06.599 NDP as liberal, as conservative as other 01:25:06.599 --> 01:25:08.969 parties that I suspect the popularly the vote 01:25:08.969 --> 01:25:12.210 distribution is roughly equal to party votes. 01:25:12.210 --> 01:25:14.429 And there are lots of gun owners who voted 01:25:14.460 --> 01:25:17.639 for the liberals three times in a row and even 01:25:17.639 --> 01:25:20.070 after Trudo promised mass, confiscations voted 01:25:20.070 --> 01:25:21.900 for them because guns are not their number 01:25:21.900 --> 01:25:23.490 one voting interest. 01:25:23.849 --> 01:25:25.910 So one is a lot of gun owners actually 01:25:25.915 --> 01:25:27.960 vote liberal or for other prohibitionist. 01:25:28.530 --> 01:25:32.250 The second thing is in terms of convincing I, 01:25:32.255 --> 01:25:35.759 this is a, a complaint, uh, with a smile. 01:25:36.630 --> 01:25:38.580 Forget about convincing Joe Voter. 01:25:38.700 --> 01:25:41.910 We have gun owners who are in denial. 01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:44.160 And the, the gun clubs, just, just an example 01:25:44.160 --> 01:25:46.860 that was related to me in the spring, perhaps 01:25:46.860 --> 01:25:49.320 a few weeks before the May 30th announcement, 01:25:49.710 --> 01:25:52.380 uh, handgun Club near Toronto, the board is 01:25:52.380 --> 01:25:54.000 coming up for election or planning the year 01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:56.700 ahead, and they are in complete denial after the 01:25:56.700 --> 01:25:58.740 Prime Minister has said repeatedly, repeatedly 01:25:58.740 --> 01:26:01.110 for years, he wants to confiscate handguns. 01:26:01.470 --> 01:26:03.750 This handgun club was not doing anything different. 01:26:03.750 --> 01:26:04.470 Not stepping up. 01:26:04.470 --> 01:26:05.670 Its recruiting efforts, not 01:26:05.670 --> 01:26:06.510 budgeting differently. 01:26:06.514 --> 01:26:08.940 Hey, what if we get shut down, no change. 01:26:09.210 --> 01:26:11.519 Not talking about handguns, not promoting 01:26:11.519 --> 01:26:13.410 handgun ownership or handgun sports. 01:26:13.889 --> 01:26:14.820 Total denial. 01:26:15.360 --> 01:26:16.500 Total head in the sand. 01:26:16.679 --> 01:26:19.830 Total old school game of if we just keep quiet, 01:26:19.830 --> 01:26:20.880 they'll leave us alone. 01:26:21.300 --> 01:26:21.809 Doesn't work. 01:26:22.470 --> 01:26:24.750 And here's again, it's find that 01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:25.889 terribly frustrating. 01:26:26.309 --> 01:26:26.429 Mm-hmm. 01:26:26.700 --> 01:26:28.380 , real world examples of what Nick is 01:26:28.380 --> 01:26:29.099 talking about. 01:26:30.330 --> 01:26:31.769 You got two, let's say you're Joe Gun owner, 01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:32.790 you got two options. 01:26:32.910 --> 01:26:34.860 You belong to that Toronto Gun Club, right? 01:26:35.269 --> 01:26:36.300 You can. 01:26:36.885 --> 01:26:39.435 And again, I feel like I'm, I'm going to have 01:26:39.435 --> 01:26:40.995 to take it easy cuz I'm beginning to preach. 01:26:41.025 --> 01:26:43.755 But , we've done really well. 01:26:43.815 --> 01:26:43.965 Preach. 01:26:45.615 --> 01:26:47.985 You can try and convince the public and if you 01:26:47.985 --> 01:26:49.965 do so, you'll probably turn to social media 01:26:50.055 --> 01:26:52.245 cuz that's how most people broadcast right? 01:26:52.275 --> 01:26:52.935 These days. 01:26:53.475 --> 01:26:55.425 And you'll make your Facebook post and 01:26:55.425 --> 01:26:57.315 you may, if you're a popular person, 01:26:57.315 --> 01:26:59.595 get a couple hundred people interacting 01:26:59.595 --> 01:26:59.985 with you, right? 01:27:00.915 --> 01:27:03.405 Of those couple hundred, probably none 01:27:03.405 --> 01:27:05.745 of them will actually communicate if they 01:27:05.750 --> 01:27:06.705 have your concerns. 01:27:06.705 --> 01:27:08.175 None of them will communicate that to 01:27:08.175 --> 01:27:10.515 the legislator who's going to Ottawa, right? 01:27:10.965 --> 01:27:12.525 They'll all just give their happy faces 01:27:12.525 --> 01:27:13.875 and they'll say, this sucks, or That's too 01:27:13.875 --> 01:27:14.715 bad, or you suck. 01:27:14.715 --> 01:27:15.135 You name it. 01:27:15.675 --> 01:27:20.385 Um, if you went to your gun club with 01:27:20.385 --> 01:27:22.395 a hundred pieces of paper with letters 01:27:22.395 --> 01:27:26.385 pre-printed to the MP of that gun club and you 01:27:26.385 --> 01:27:28.785 just said, sign this, I'll mail it for you. 01:27:29.265 --> 01:27:29.915 You just sign it. 01:27:30.675 --> 01:27:31.065 That's it. 01:27:31.305 --> 01:27:32.775 I'll put the gun club's return address 01:27:32.775 --> 01:27:33.675 on it, so it's fine. 01:27:34.065 --> 01:27:35.085 You just sign it there. 01:27:35.175 --> 01:27:36.495 You're a constituent, you're good to go. 01:27:36.825 --> 01:27:39.285 Now the MP of that area has a hundred 01:27:39.285 --> 01:27:42.255 pieces of communication saying This law is bad. 01:27:43.185 --> 01:27:46.095 What's the actual, what is more likely to 01:27:46.095 --> 01:27:47.835 create the actual change we're looking for here? 01:27:49.485 --> 01:27:52.155 Because ultimately you can say that the 01:27:52.155 --> 01:27:53.805 end result of the social media campaign 01:27:53.810 --> 01:27:55.425 is that those people have commented may 01:27:55.425 --> 01:27:57.435 change their vote in the next election. 01:27:57.440 --> 01:28:00.075 Maybe it's pretty tenuous because we interact 01:28:00.075 --> 01:28:01.455 with social media a million times a day. 01:28:01.455 --> 01:28:02.276 So no remembers it. 01:28:02.535 --> 01:28:04.545 If you sign a letter, you remember it. 01:28:05.205 --> 01:28:06.735 So even if you've got a gun owner, like Nick 01:28:06.735 --> 01:28:08.445 said, that's maybe a little bit wishy-washy 01:28:08.445 --> 01:28:09.675 and he walks into that gun club going, 01:28:09.675 --> 01:28:10.845 well, we're just gonna approve the same budget 01:28:10.845 --> 01:28:11.595 cause nothing changed. 01:28:11.775 --> 01:28:13.245 Then you hold a letter up and they go, wow, like 01:28:13.245 --> 01:28:14.835 you actually took the time to print a hundred. 01:28:14.985 --> 01:28:15.975 This is a real thing. 01:28:16.245 --> 01:28:16.575 Oh yeah. 01:28:16.575 --> 01:28:18.255 Look at the law, you show them. 01:28:18.675 --> 01:28:20.820 Well now you've got a hundred votes and letter. 01:28:22.184 --> 01:28:24.465 Like that's where it comes into the, we gotta 01:28:24.465 --> 01:28:26.655 stop thinking about the public and stop thinking 01:28:26.655 --> 01:28:28.934 about social media and the media to be quite 01:28:28.934 --> 01:28:31.184 honest at large, and start thinking about 01:28:31.785 --> 01:28:33.945 are there letters on my gun club counter? 01:28:34.455 --> 01:28:37.514 Because if your gun club doesn't have three piles 01:28:37.514 --> 01:28:40.394 of letters for people to take sign and mail in 01:28:40.400 --> 01:28:42.224 with instructions printed right there saying you 01:28:42.224 --> 01:28:44.295 don't need postage, hell, they should have a bin 01:28:44.295 --> 01:28:45.644 right there where you just put the letter in, 01:28:45.644 --> 01:28:46.514 they mail it for you. 01:28:46.644 --> 01:28:47.165 Mm-hmm. 01:28:47.245 --> 01:28:49.634 . If your gun club and your gun stores don't have 01:28:49.634 --> 01:28:52.184 that, you shouldn't be posting anything about 01:28:52.184 --> 01:28:53.054 guns on social media. 01:28:53.054 --> 01:28:54.465 You should be taking letters to your gun 01:28:54.465 --> 01:28:56.715 club and you should be telling em by envelopes 01:28:56.835 --> 01:28:59.764 because in their best interests, like that's 01:28:59.925 --> 01:29:01.065 the real change here. 01:29:01.094 --> 01:29:02.985 Like that's, and and I'm starting to see it like, 01:29:03.014 --> 01:29:04.575 to be clear, like I'm sounding about ranty, but 01:29:04.575 --> 01:29:05.085 I'm starting to see it. 01:29:05.085 --> 01:29:06.585 I go on Reddit, I see the big stacks and like, 01:29:06.590 --> 01:29:08.384 to be very honest, I wanted a chance to say 01:29:08.384 --> 01:29:11.384 like, as someone's in the industry whose entire 01:29:11.384 --> 01:29:12.825 family, my livelihood is tied to this. 01:29:12.825 --> 01:29:14.625 Like it's a huge. 01:29:15.405 --> 01:29:18.525 Huge boost to see, to go on Reddit and see people 01:29:18.525 --> 01:29:19.875 with stacks of letters. 01:29:19.875 --> 01:29:19.965 Mm-hmm. 01:29:20.434 --> 01:29:21.855 being like, I'm gonna go bomb the mailbox, 01:29:21.855 --> 01:29:23.955 like 400 letters and it's mm-hmm , it's 01:29:23.955 --> 01:29:25.724 the senates, the mps, and all proud of it. 01:29:25.724 --> 01:29:28.875 Like it takes me right back to early long gun 01:29:28.875 --> 01:29:31.724 registry days, like when we were effective 01:29:31.724 --> 01:29:32.264 and it's awesome. 01:29:32.474 --> 01:29:35.865 And I think that's where people gotta 01:29:35.865 --> 01:29:38.144 like stop being distracted, you know? 01:29:38.205 --> 01:29:38.684 It's great. 01:29:38.684 --> 01:29:40.005 The carry price stands with us. 01:29:40.005 --> 01:29:40.485 That's great. 01:29:40.485 --> 01:29:41.325 Now go print a letter. 01:29:41.804 --> 01:29:43.455 Like that's what it comes down to in politics, 01:29:43.455 --> 01:29:45.345 they always talk about knock a door cuz door 01:29:45.345 --> 01:29:48.195 knocking is the basic, fundamental, grassroots 01:29:48.195 --> 01:29:48.974 political effort. 01:29:49.184 --> 01:29:51.224 So the running joke is, that's a great idea. 01:29:51.224 --> 01:29:52.125 Have you knocked a door? 01:29:52.575 --> 01:29:53.745 Gun owners be the same thing. 01:29:53.775 --> 01:29:54.285 It's a great idea. 01:29:54.285 --> 01:29:54.945 Have you sent a letter? 01:29:55.605 --> 01:29:57.585 It's free, it's a piece of freaking and paper. 01:29:57.945 --> 01:29:59.235 Your boss won't miss it if you print 01:29:59.240 --> 01:29:59.894 it off at work. 01:30:00.105 --> 01:30:00.644 They'll never know. 01:30:00.855 --> 01:30:03.405 Like, just print 'em off and get 'em in the mail. 01:30:03.434 --> 01:30:04.425 Like, it's that simple. 01:30:04.485 --> 01:30:06.554 You just, it's that easy, you know? 01:30:06.945 --> 01:30:08.894 Um, and that's where the change comes in. 01:30:08.894 --> 01:30:10.095 So I think that's, that's the big 01:30:10.095 --> 01:30:10.955 thing is really I. 01:30:11.685 --> 01:30:13.545 really impressing upon people that like, they 01:30:13.575 --> 01:30:14.895 can change things. 01:30:14.895 --> 01:30:17.475 They just gotta stop thinking about, you 01:30:17.475 --> 01:30:19.725 know, just talking to social media and Facebook 01:30:19.725 --> 01:30:21.335 posts and Twitter and all this and actually 01:30:21.340 --> 01:30:22.815 talk like, there are only three, again, 01:30:23.265 --> 01:30:26.985 there are 338 people who make these decisions. 01:30:27.435 --> 01:30:33.645 There are 2.3 million of us like this. 01:30:33.735 --> 01:30:33.975 Yeah. 01:30:33.980 --> 01:30:34.845 This shouldn't be difficult. 01:30:34.905 --> 01:30:36.825 This really shouldn't even be on the table if 01:30:36.825 --> 01:30:39.015 we were at all effective as a lobbying entity. 01:30:39.015 --> 01:30:40.275 When it's almost comical when these 01:30:40.280 --> 01:30:41.625 anti-gun groups talk about the strength of 01:30:41.625 --> 01:30:44.835 the pro gun lobby, cuz I mean, 2.3 billion. 01:30:44.840 --> 01:30:45.055 Yeah. 01:30:45.055 --> 01:30:45.655 It is comical. 01:30:46.185 --> 01:30:46.515 Yeah. 01:30:46.725 --> 01:30:48.315 What do, people are in the dairy industry, 01:30:48.465 --> 01:30:50.145 how do you, how do you respond to the 01:30:50.145 --> 01:30:52.545 people who say, and I I think it's legitimate. 01:30:52.545 --> 01:30:54.675 I understand this, uh, this response. 01:30:55.215 --> 01:30:58.035 I, I'm not, no one's getting my guns. 01:30:58.455 --> 01:31:00.195 I don't wanna send a letter, I don't want 01:31:00.200 --> 01:31:02.745 to go on the record as flagging myself 01:31:02.745 --> 01:31:04.785 as being a concerned party or, you know, 01:31:05.205 --> 01:31:06.075 that I own anything. 01:31:06.345 --> 01:31:07.935 I just want, I'm just gonna go dark. 01:31:08.595 --> 01:31:10.245 I'm just gonna quietly not comply. 01:31:10.575 --> 01:31:12.945 What do you, uh, what's a good response to to, 01:31:13.095 --> 01:31:16.935 to tell those people that you can quietly, 01:31:16.935 --> 01:31:21.555 non comply and voice your concern mutually. 01:31:22.065 --> 01:31:23.415 Like, they're not mutually exclusive 01:31:23.415 --> 01:31:24.075 whatsoever. 01:31:24.285 --> 01:31:26.235 There's no legal, like if you sign a letter, 01:31:26.235 --> 01:31:27.465 if you write a letter to the Prime Minister 01:31:27.465 --> 01:31:30.135 saying, I don't agree with this law, there's no 01:31:30.135 --> 01:31:34.095 legal thing saying that you're in contravention 01:31:34.095 --> 01:31:34.725 of it whatsoever. 01:31:34.725 --> 01:31:37.395 Like, and, and moreover, like, I'd almost kind 01:31:37.400 --> 01:31:39.735 of say like, that's a really weird moralistic 01:31:39.735 --> 01:31:40.665 perspective to take. 01:31:40.725 --> 01:31:44.535 Like, it's a very, like Anne Frank isn't 01:31:44.535 --> 01:31:46.925 my daughter kind of perspective to take like, 01:31:47.205 --> 01:31:49.365 like it's very like, but, but I understand 01:31:49.365 --> 01:31:50.865 it because if they, if you don't trust the 01:31:50.865 --> 01:31:52.695 government, if you think that this government, if 01:31:52.695 --> 01:31:56.805 these, if this 300 they 30, they're making social 01:31:56.805 --> 01:31:58.635 media post saying, I'm not sending a letter. 01:31:58.755 --> 01:31:58.875 They. 01:32:00.075 --> 01:32:00.675 Absolutely. 01:32:00.675 --> 01:32:01.815 But so that, that's why they say 01:32:01.845 --> 01:32:02.445 we're staying off. 01:32:02.445 --> 01:32:04.725 So I guess, I guess I can understand it, people 01:32:04.725 --> 01:32:07.395 who say that if you don't trust these politicians 01:32:07.400 --> 01:32:09.015 and you believe that they are some 01:32:09.020 --> 01:32:11.775 version of nefarious, malicious, evil, bad, 01:32:12.075 --> 01:32:14.025 uh, disingenuous, dishonest, they're, 01:32:14.335 --> 01:32:14.985 they're up to no good. 01:32:15.585 --> 01:32:17.625 You're just gonna, quietly, you have a 01:32:17.625 --> 01:32:20.175 bunch of non-restricted guns that are now 01:32:20.205 --> 01:32:21.105 to be confiscated. 01:32:21.105 --> 01:32:23.835 You're just gonna quietly do your thing 01:32:23.835 --> 01:32:26.475 and, and not make, not essentially go dark, 01:32:26.565 --> 01:32:28.275 not send a letter, not go on social media 01:32:28.275 --> 01:32:30.165 and advertise the fact that you oppose this. 01:32:30.525 --> 01:32:32.925 I, I, I understand it and I wish I 01:32:32.925 --> 01:32:34.125 had a, a response. 01:32:34.125 --> 01:32:34.815 And I agree with you. 01:32:34.815 --> 01:32:35.835 You can still send a letter. 01:32:35.895 --> 01:32:37.485 If we live in a country where you cannot, where 01:32:37.485 --> 01:32:38.775 you're too scared to send a letter to your 01:32:38.775 --> 01:32:43.065 politician, then we are in deep trouble. 01:32:43.155 --> 01:32:44.175 I don't think we're there yet. 01:32:44.175 --> 01:32:45.195 I hope we never get there. 01:32:45.555 --> 01:32:47.295 Um, but I just also know that when I 01:32:47.295 --> 01:32:48.795 say that to people, they're not convinced. 01:32:49.485 --> 01:32:50.595 They, yeah. 01:32:51.375 --> 01:32:52.395 And I guess that's where you get into 01:32:52.395 --> 01:32:54.075 the, like, you can't convince everyone, right? 01:32:54.285 --> 01:32:55.875 I mean, and I think. 01:32:56.505 --> 01:32:57.735 And I, Travis and I have talked about this 01:32:57.735 --> 01:33:00.705 before in, in the past podcast of, of like 01:33:00.710 --> 01:33:02.625 social media, is the tempest in a teapot, 01:33:03.285 --> 01:33:05.025 like I keep saying it's 2.3 million licensed 01:33:05.025 --> 01:33:05.655 gun owners out there. 01:33:05.660 --> 01:33:07.545 There's 5 million gun owners in Canada, and 01:33:07.545 --> 01:33:09.345 I'll say non-criminal gun owners is in 01:33:09.345 --> 01:33:11.235 like, they've never committed an actual 01:33:11.240 --> 01:33:12.915 crime in contravention the criminal code as 01:33:12.915 --> 01:33:14.505 in like violence or injuring someone, but 01:33:14.505 --> 01:33:16.125 they're in possession of a firearm illegally 01:33:16.425 --> 01:33:18.455 because they got it back in the FAC days. 01:33:18.460 --> 01:33:20.895 And I say it's 50% because the registry 01:33:20.895 --> 01:33:22.035 only captured 50%. 01:33:22.040 --> 01:33:24.765 So if you go with, well, let's go with even 01:33:24.765 --> 01:33:26.535 4.5 million gun owners out there that aren't 01:33:26.540 --> 01:33:27.315 committing crimes. 01:33:27.945 --> 01:33:30.195 You know, it's just kinda like, I don't 01:33:30.195 --> 01:33:33.165 know, like we know that statistically 01:33:33.165 --> 01:33:34.005 speaking, they're older. 01:33:34.770 --> 01:33:34.860 . Yep. 01:33:34.920 --> 01:33:37.020 We know that the majority of 'em are over 45. 01:33:37.020 --> 01:33:38.730 We know the majority of people on social 01:33:38.730 --> 01:33:39.840 media are under 35. 01:33:40.110 --> 01:33:43.410 We know the people over 55 spend like five, 01:33:43.410 --> 01:33:45.630 two, and 5% of all social media traffic 01:33:45.630 --> 01:33:46.800 is people over 55. 01:33:47.280 --> 01:33:49.800 So the vast majority of our gun owners that 01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:51.420 we're relying on to said letters and be 01:33:51.425 --> 01:33:53.970 that grassroots are not on social media. 01:33:53.970 --> 01:33:55.410 So when, when that one guy goes, well, 01:33:55.410 --> 01:33:57.000 I'm not gonna send a letter, my response 01:33:57.000 --> 01:33:57.930 is like, I don't care. 01:33:58.320 --> 01:33:59.670 I got a hundred of 'em down at the gun shop. 01:33:59.940 --> 01:34:00.090 Right? 01:34:00.150 --> 01:34:01.380 I guarantee you they'll be gone. 01:34:01.770 --> 01:34:05.580 So one guy, like, and, and again, this is kind 01:34:05.580 --> 01:34:07.500 of the thing where gun owners have to get a bit 01:34:07.500 --> 01:34:10.980 more, I don't know, I don't know if it's like 01:34:10.980 --> 01:34:13.050 a business perspective or a capital's perspective 01:34:13.080 --> 01:34:14.691 of think about where you're expending your 01:34:14.696 --> 01:34:16.380 effort and your assets and your resources 01:34:16.470 --> 01:34:17.520 and do it efficiently. 01:34:17.550 --> 01:34:20.130 If some guy is, if you're spending four hours of 01:34:20.370 --> 01:34:23.340 your day arguing, or God knows, two years 01:34:23.340 --> 01:34:25.320 of your life, arguing with people on Twitter, 01:34:25.710 --> 01:34:28.200 like various well known anti-gun Twitter 01:34:28.200 --> 01:34:29.820 names, just block them. 01:34:30.300 --> 01:34:31.650 It's a waste of your time. 01:34:31.860 --> 01:34:32.340 Like literally. 01:34:32.955 --> 01:34:34.125 Go whittle a canoe. 01:34:34.125 --> 01:34:36.285 It's a better use of, don't do nothing about 01:34:36.285 --> 01:34:38.205 guns, be a better child to your, or 01:34:38.205 --> 01:34:39.045 father, your children. 01:34:39.045 --> 01:34:40.965 Do anything other than argue with people 01:34:40.965 --> 01:34:41.655 on social media. 01:34:41.715 --> 01:34:43.755 The good news there, I think for I on Twitter, 01:34:43.755 --> 01:34:45.945 I'm not on Facebook or Instagram, but, but 01:34:45.945 --> 01:34:47.385 I think the good news there is that there's 01:34:47.390 --> 01:34:49.635 very, like the Twitter is is, I'm gonna say 01:34:49.635 --> 01:34:51.405 it's insignificant in terms of the gun debate. 01:34:51.405 --> 01:34:54.585 It's, it's, it's, uh, when I look at the 01:34:54.585 --> 01:34:57.495 retweets, likes follows, it's insignificant. 01:34:58.125 --> 01:34:58.395 Yeah. 01:34:58.845 --> 01:35:00.285 The numbers are just, the numbers 01:35:00.285 --> 01:35:00.945 are insignificant. 01:35:00.945 --> 01:35:01.155 Yeah. 01:35:01.185 --> 01:35:02.865 It's, it's a very lively discussion. 01:35:02.895 --> 01:35:05.745 I think that's, , it gets confused for the 01:35:05.745 --> 01:35:07.605 actual discussion cuz there's a few people 01:35:07.605 --> 01:35:09.315 that really, you know, it's a small community. 01:35:09.315 --> 01:35:10.095 People like talking about it. 01:35:10.095 --> 01:35:10.575 I like it. 01:35:10.825 --> 01:35:13.035 But it's definitely, I'm, I'm there too. 01:35:13.185 --> 01:35:15.045 But in terms of, I guess it, it's insignificant I 01:35:15.045 --> 01:35:16.095 guess in terms of reach. 01:35:16.335 --> 01:35:18.345 We're very smart people who are on Twitter 01:35:18.495 --> 01:35:20.895 posting very infor important messages. 01:35:21.135 --> 01:35:23.505 But we're, we're not reaching things and 01:35:23.505 --> 01:35:24.945 that's where the Carrie Price thing comes in. 01:35:24.945 --> 01:35:26.505 Why was Carrie Price so remarkable? 01:35:26.505 --> 01:35:29.325 Because instead of reaching five or 50 or 01:35:29.325 --> 01:35:31.275 500 people he reached, I don't know what 01:35:31.275 --> 01:35:33.285 the numbers are now, but, but thousands 01:35:33.285 --> 01:35:34.065 or tens of thousands. 01:35:34.065 --> 01:35:35.985 So it's, and the media pick on it, 01:35:36.135 --> 01:35:38.085 is it millions on his, oh, I think his 01:35:38.085 --> 01:35:39.345 Instagram post, I think he's got millions of 01:35:39.345 --> 01:35:40.215 followers on Instagram. 01:35:40.245 --> 01:35:40.935 He's a popular guy. 01:35:41.055 --> 01:35:41.355 Okay. 01:35:41.355 --> 01:35:43.665 So he, he, he reached, he reached a lot of people. 01:35:43.670 --> 01:35:44.835 That's why it's, that's why it's 01:35:44.835 --> 01:35:45.585 quite significant. 01:35:45.885 --> 01:35:47.745 But I can, I can, I guarantee you that nobody 01:35:47.750 --> 01:35:49.275 in my own garage has ever heard of Carrie. 01:35:51.884 --> 01:35:54.495 Well, my best friend would absolutely kill 01:35:54.495 --> 01:35:55.245 for his autograph. 01:35:55.245 --> 01:35:56.655 So Care, if you're listening, by all 01:35:56.655 --> 01:35:58.304 means, you can sign a coffee of the menu. 01:35:58.934 --> 01:36:00.735 . I had never heard of him before two days ago. 01:36:01.724 --> 01:36:04.094 Um, well, he got flack for those that, again, 01:36:04.184 --> 01:36:05.474 those that don't remember, he got flack 01:36:05.474 --> 01:36:07.485 years ago for, uh, a picture he posted 01:36:07.490 --> 01:36:09.795 on Instagram flying, tying a fly with his 01:36:09.795 --> 01:36:12.764 daughter, uh, with Anfa flag in the background. 01:36:13.304 --> 01:36:16.514 This would be four or five years ago. 01:36:16.905 --> 01:36:19.065 Might longer, it was maybe even the Sean 01:36:19.065 --> 01:36:20.415 Bevins days of the nfa. 01:36:20.474 --> 01:36:23.144 But yeah, it was, he, he was quite outspoken then. 01:36:23.205 --> 01:36:25.035 He took flack for it then, and he stuck. 01:36:25.215 --> 01:36:25.875 He stood by it. 01:36:25.875 --> 01:36:27.525 That's why I think this is an honest to God. 01:36:27.585 --> 01:36:29.355 He, he he does believe this. 01:36:29.384 --> 01:36:29.565 Yeah. 01:36:29.625 --> 01:36:29.804 Yeah. 01:36:29.804 --> 01:36:32.955 And I think, I mean, I, and to, to correct what 01:36:32.955 --> 01:36:34.665 I just said, I, I have heard his name before, 01:36:34.665 --> 01:36:36.525 but I'm not, uh, I'm not a hockey guy, so I 01:36:36.525 --> 01:36:38.835 don't, uh, he's maybe the only hockey player that 01:36:38.840 --> 01:36:40.424 I could name now, Sid. 01:36:41.590 --> 01:36:42.390 I've heard of him too. 01:36:42.480 --> 01:36:42.600 Yeah. 01:36:42.630 --> 01:36:44.250 Now you got two, you go two now you got two. 01:36:44.730 --> 01:36:46.260 So, and if you're from Vancouver, everyone 01:36:46.260 --> 01:36:48.000 knows Pav and, and Wayne Gretzky. 01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:49.860 And, I mean, you know, I've, I've heard 01:36:49.860 --> 01:36:50.550 of Wayne Gretzky. 01:36:50.550 --> 01:36:52.830 So, so let's just name hockey players for the 01:36:52.830 --> 01:36:53.310 rest of the podcast. 01:36:53.725 --> 01:36:54.180 . There'll be a lot. 01:36:56.040 --> 01:36:57.690 So we've gone through a number of 01:36:57.690 --> 01:36:58.440 different things. 01:36:58.470 --> 01:37:01.200 Um, we've put the question out through 01:37:01.200 --> 01:37:02.100 social media. 01:37:02.590 --> 01:37:05.190 A number of the questions that have been asked 01:37:05.190 --> 01:37:07.500 have been answered throughout this podcast. 01:37:07.800 --> 01:37:10.350 There is one here from Brock Fisher. 01:37:10.380 --> 01:37:13.080 He says, what will be involved in amending this 01:37:13.085 --> 01:37:15.750 bill or dissolving it if conservatives get in? 01:37:16.290 --> 01:37:19.980 So what, let's say they get in politically, 01:37:21.060 --> 01:37:23.310 everyone's on the side of getting rid of it. 01:37:23.670 --> 01:37:24.540 What would that look like? 01:37:25.280 --> 01:37:27.180 Probably not something that happens overnight. 01:37:27.600 --> 01:37:29.640 Not overnight, but they would need a major. 01:37:30.150 --> 01:37:31.679 The conservatives would need a majority. 01:37:31.679 --> 01:37:33.570 And I would say that's, that's perhaps a hope 01:37:33.570 --> 01:37:35.940 that pr pev, I've, I think there's an 01:37:35.940 --> 01:37:37.860 incredible political movement around him. 01:37:38.429 --> 01:37:39.450 I'm gonna mark that. 01:37:39.650 --> 01:37:40.139 Okay. 01:37:40.139 --> 01:37:42.240 So coming back to that one would need a majority 01:37:42.240 --> 01:37:46.980 to be able to undo legislation and, and, 01:37:46.980 --> 01:37:49.380 and certainly not a, not a short term thing, but 01:37:49.380 --> 01:37:52.349 also I'm not, I'm not, um, I don't have much 01:37:52.349 --> 01:37:54.420 hope in the political process because whether 01:37:54.420 --> 01:37:56.670 this thing goes through or not, the liberals 01:37:56.674 --> 01:37:59.400 have shown their hands, and, and Daniel has said, 01:37:59.519 --> 01:38:01.650 uh, publicly, on, on, in an interview with me a 01:38:01.650 --> 01:38:04.679 few months ago, we're, we're some number of 01:38:04.679 --> 01:38:07.920 election cycles away from mass confiscations and 01:38:07.920 --> 01:38:10.650 perhaps an irrevocable end to mainstream 01:38:10.650 --> 01:38:11.969 firearm ownership in this country. 01:38:12.240 --> 01:38:13.860 Uh, that was at the time. 01:38:13.860 --> 01:38:15.330 Maybe things have changed dramatically now, but 01:38:15.330 --> 01:38:18.900 I think we know where this thing is headed 01:38:18.929 --> 01:38:21.719 without a major cultural, political, social change. 01:38:22.200 --> 01:38:24.420 We know where this gay ends and it's 01:38:24.420 --> 01:38:25.440 not good for us. 01:38:27.240 --> 01:38:28.830 Now, I said there was a bookmark. 01:38:29.865 --> 01:38:30.945 And I agree with everything Nick's saying. 01:38:30.945 --> 01:38:33.135 So not, not disputing cuz again, we all 01:38:33.135 --> 01:38:33.945 get along famously 01:38:34.700 --> 01:38:36.855 Um, we actually do, that's not actually, 01:38:36.855 --> 01:38:38.415 that sounded like sarcasm and we actually do 01:38:38.415 --> 01:38:39.105 get along really well. 01:38:39.405 --> 01:38:40.245 You said it man. 01:38:40.245 --> 01:38:41.655 You said I'm stealing your words. 01:38:42.495 --> 01:38:44.205 We get along great and agree on pretty 01:38:44.205 --> 01:38:44.625 much everything. 01:38:44.955 --> 01:38:45.045 Yeah. 01:38:45.105 --> 01:38:46.875 Um, what I think is really interesting 01:38:46.875 --> 01:38:48.945 though is to game out. 01:38:49.035 --> 01:38:50.805 Cause I agree it needs a majority, like 01:38:50.865 --> 01:38:52.545 conventional thinking Absolutely needs a 01:38:52.545 --> 01:38:54.495 majority to, to rescind. 01:38:55.095 --> 01:38:57.375 Um, it'll take a full legislative act. 01:38:57.555 --> 01:38:58.785 This is one of the interesting things 01:38:58.785 --> 01:39:01.995 is, um, some of the previous stuff, littles 01:39:01.995 --> 01:39:04.215 did C 71, you name it, rescinded cuz people have 01:39:04.220 --> 01:39:06.435 forgotten, took away the ability for the governor 01:39:06.435 --> 01:39:08.805 in council to declare a firearm non-restricted. 01:39:08.865 --> 01:39:11.745 So we're can o I see things. 01:39:11.925 --> 01:39:12.945 So it's a one way trip. 01:39:12.945 --> 01:39:15.285 So effectively the liberals have almost 01:39:15.285 --> 01:39:18.555 forced pr poly's hands into a full firearms 01:39:18.555 --> 01:39:21.585 act rewrite because if he comes into office 01:39:22.515 --> 01:39:24.585 buoyed by a bunch of people going, well 01:39:24.645 --> 01:39:26.745 this act is bad and we want this rescinded. 01:39:27.285 --> 01:39:29.685 The only way to really give us back these guns, 01:39:29.685 --> 01:39:32.055 the, to be quite honest, the easiest way to give 01:39:32.055 --> 01:39:33.735 us back these guns at this point, because 01:39:33.735 --> 01:39:37.485 the law has been so, it's like a broken down 01:39:37.485 --> 01:39:39.195 car that people have fixed on the road and 01:39:39.200 --> 01:39:41.145 rolls into the service station with 14 different 01:39:41.145 --> 01:39:42.135 brands of parts on it. 01:39:42.135 --> 01:39:43.695 And the mechanic goes, this is gonna take 01:39:43.700 --> 01:39:44.505 a significant work. 01:39:44.510 --> 01:39:45.405 You should just buy a new car. 01:39:45.975 --> 01:39:47.865 Um, that's what Poly's walking into at the 01:39:47.865 --> 01:39:51.315 Firearms Act is this Jap of a broken down junker. 01:39:51.825 --> 01:39:53.445 And his easiest solution is to blow 01:39:53.450 --> 01:39:54.525 it all up and go, no, we're just gonna start 01:39:54.530 --> 01:39:56.865 from scratch and we're gonna get definitions. 01:39:56.870 --> 01:39:58.605 We're gonna throw this variant crap out. 01:39:58.635 --> 01:39:59.865 We're getting rid of this F frt, we're 01:39:59.870 --> 01:40:00.825 starting from scratch. 01:40:01.365 --> 01:40:03.705 Um, so I think it's interesting liberals 01:40:03.705 --> 01:40:06.675 of force hand's more interesting to me and 01:40:06.675 --> 01:40:10.215 again, why I've been so on gun owners to 01:40:10.220 --> 01:40:11.985 get involved in the party politics side. 01:40:11.985 --> 01:40:14.445 If you have any inclination to join 01:40:14.450 --> 01:40:20.325 the ndp, do so because we're probably looking 01:40:20.330 --> 01:40:22.185 at a spring election, that's the common rumor. 01:40:22.185 --> 01:40:23.205 Spring 2023. 01:40:24.015 --> 01:40:26.445 And what I'm about to say holds true regardless of 01:40:26.445 --> 01:40:27.315 when the election occurs. 01:40:27.315 --> 01:40:29.025 But for the reason of the conversation's, the 01:40:29.025 --> 01:40:29.895 easiest to have a time. 01:40:30.885 --> 01:40:32.925 Let's say an election happens in March of 2023. 01:40:33.225 --> 01:40:34.305 We don't know the outcome of that. 01:40:34.705 --> 01:40:34.865 Election. 01:40:35.535 --> 01:40:37.665 Polls will have all kinds of things, whatever. 01:40:38.115 --> 01:40:40.485 What we do know after that election is it 01:40:40.485 --> 01:40:43.995 is very unlikely that the next liberal and 01:40:44.025 --> 01:40:46.575 NDP mandates end with the same leader that 01:40:46.575 --> 01:40:49.575 they currently have is very unlikely that no 01:40:49.580 --> 01:40:51.375 matter if the NDP or the liberals, if the 01:40:51.375 --> 01:40:53.565 NDP won even, I mean, if they won Jag Med, 01:40:54.025 --> 01:40:55.545 probably stay, but that'd be the only way. 01:40:55.995 --> 01:40:57.765 Even if the liberals win, it's highly 01:40:57.765 --> 01:40:59.625 likely the Trudeau will probably step down. 01:40:59.685 --> 01:41:01.065 He's kind of intimated. 01:41:01.065 --> 01:41:02.595 This is the last one he runs in. 01:41:02.595 --> 01:41:03.015 You name it. 01:41:04.185 --> 01:41:06.435 Much like when Harper left the conservative. 01:41:07.665 --> 01:41:10.245 Trudeau will leave the liberals effectively 01:41:10.245 --> 01:41:12.375 rudderless when he steps down because it's 01:41:12.375 --> 01:41:14.714 not the liberal party that we all have known 01:41:14.714 --> 01:41:15.434 through our childhood. 01:41:15.434 --> 01:41:16.815 It is the Trudeau party at this point. 01:41:16.815 --> 01:41:18.495 It is much like the conservative party 01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:19.365 was the Harper party. 01:41:19.424 --> 01:41:21.044 It took on the personality leader. 01:41:21.584 --> 01:41:23.054 There's gonna be a massive change when 01:41:23.059 --> 01:41:24.705 a new leader steps in and that massive 01:41:24.705 --> 01:41:26.804 change brings with it massive opportunity. 01:41:27.105 --> 01:41:28.544 And I think both within the liberal party and 01:41:28.544 --> 01:41:31.905 the NDP gun owners would be very well to both 01:41:31.905 --> 01:41:34.424 communicate with if they have a liberal and NDP 01:41:34.815 --> 01:41:37.815 MP to communicate with them that no matter 01:41:37.815 --> 01:41:40.035 what happens in the next election, they're 01:41:40.040 --> 01:41:43.245 going to be facing an internal party election. 01:41:43.934 --> 01:41:45.794 And where they come down on this issue 01:41:45.855 --> 01:41:47.144 may be very important. 01:41:47.804 --> 01:41:50.115 Because if you are a member, again, I know 01:41:50.115 --> 01:41:52.544 I'm kind of spiraling here a bit, but the NDP 01:41:52.544 --> 01:41:53.504 does not have a large. 01:41:54.705 --> 01:41:56.505 So as gun owners, if you were to join the 01:41:56.505 --> 01:41:58.995 ndp, you could have a massively outsized 01:41:58.995 --> 01:42:01.155 impact on NDP policy. 01:42:01.545 --> 01:42:04.065 Like literally 10,000 gun owners could dictate NDP 01:42:04.065 --> 01:42:07.575 policy to the NDP because they're very small. 01:42:07.580 --> 01:42:09.165 Just like a hundred gun owners could 01:42:09.165 --> 01:42:11.025 dictate policy to a municipal election. 01:42:11.115 --> 01:42:12.825 It's very, everything changes. 01:42:12.830 --> 01:42:13.175 Mm-hmm. 01:42:13.455 --> 01:42:14.565 gun owners gotta think about this. 01:42:14.565 --> 01:42:15.975 Think not about the election's. 01:42:15.975 --> 01:42:16.275 Very important. 01:42:16.275 --> 01:42:17.655 We should all work very hard to make sure we 01:42:17.655 --> 01:42:20.595 get a majority, but also keep in mind that there 01:42:20.595 --> 01:42:22.845 is a goal beyond this election, and the goal 01:42:22.845 --> 01:42:25.185 beyond the selection is to take guns out of 01:42:25.185 --> 01:42:26.085 the political hands. 01:42:26.085 --> 01:42:27.735 And the only way to do that start interacting. 01:42:27.740 --> 01:42:31.365 And as the leaders of Jag Meat and Trudeau 01:42:31.365 --> 01:42:33.765 step down, these parties are going to 01:42:33.765 --> 01:42:36.195 be doing some serious internal reflection. 01:42:36.825 --> 01:42:39.555 And I think when you say a majority, I think there 01:42:39.555 --> 01:42:42.075 is an opportunity here to get the NDP at least 01:42:42.555 --> 01:42:45.405 back to a gun agnostic, or perhaps even pro 01:42:45.410 --> 01:42:47.235 gun side, because they are the party of blue 01:42:47.240 --> 01:42:48.375 collar union workers. 01:42:48.765 --> 01:42:51.945 This policy wastes a ton of money that would be 01:42:51.945 --> 01:42:53.535 better spent on numerous. 01:42:54.015 --> 01:42:55.725 Social supports that the NDP would 01:42:55.725 --> 01:42:56.715 otherwise support. 01:42:56.955 --> 01:42:58.815 I mean a billion dollars towards this 01:42:58.815 --> 01:43:00.645 gun ban goes a long way towards expanding 01:43:00.645 --> 01:43:01.545 that dental program. 01:43:02.775 --> 01:43:04.275 Yeah, these are very real points that people can 01:43:04.275 --> 01:43:07.035 be making and I think if gun owners think about, 01:43:07.040 --> 01:43:08.805 okay, the election is the next big thing, but 01:43:08.805 --> 01:43:10.815 there's going to be party elections after and start 01:43:10.820 --> 01:43:13.925 thinking about the role that cuz this election 01:43:13.930 --> 01:43:16.215 and the roll guns play in it will have a way 01:43:16.215 --> 01:43:19.845 bigger impact on how the parties shape up for 01:43:19.845 --> 01:43:22.335 the next four years than it probably actually 01:43:22.335 --> 01:43:23.245 will on the election. 01:43:23.250 --> 01:43:24.495 And what I mean by that, it'll have a larger 01:43:24.500 --> 01:43:26.235 impact on whether or not the NDP and the block K 01:43:26.235 --> 01:43:29.595 back are, the liberals are anti-gun program, 01:43:29.595 --> 01:43:31.695 the degree to which their anti-gun or program. 01:43:31.695 --> 01:43:33.075 Cuz we might see a liberal party come 01:43:33.075 --> 01:43:36.705 out this next election that is not the 01:43:36.710 --> 01:43:40.605 Trudeau urban centric, efficient Toronto. 01:43:40.605 --> 01:43:41.685 And they, they go, yeah, you know, we're, 01:43:41.775 --> 01:43:43.365 we're not really, we got creamed on, we're 01:43:43.365 --> 01:43:43.965 stepping back from. 01:43:44.745 --> 01:43:46.785 You know, we, we don't think, we don't have a 01:43:46.785 --> 01:43:47.785 lot of gun homicides. 01:43:47.785 --> 01:43:49.485 The liberals could entirely, it's within 01:43:49.485 --> 01:43:50.835 the realm of possibility. 01:43:51.045 --> 01:43:53.175 Dare I say, it's more realistic than changing 01:43:53.175 --> 01:43:54.615 50% of Canadian's minds. 01:43:54.895 --> 01:43:55.505 Mm-hmm. 01:43:56.055 --> 01:43:57.045 , it would be nice. 01:43:57.795 --> 01:43:59.295 And we are going to be confronting 01:43:59.295 --> 01:44:01.545 the opportunity for that within the next 01:44:01.545 --> 01:44:02.715 year, realistically. 01:44:03.735 --> 01:44:05.145 And that's what I think we need to start working 01:44:05.145 --> 01:44:06.555 around now, is the election's one thing, 01:44:06.555 --> 01:44:09.075 but that, that's the larger issue, is to 01:44:09.075 --> 01:44:10.185 start recognizing that. 01:44:11.985 --> 01:44:13.365 Nicholas, you have anything to add? 01:44:14.595 --> 01:44:16.635 Uh, that message gives me hope, actually. 01:44:16.845 --> 01:44:19.905 The, it makes, it, it's, I agree. 01:44:19.905 --> 01:44:21.885 It's, it's plausible, it's possible. 01:44:21.915 --> 01:44:23.445 It's, I don't know if it's probable, but it 01:44:23.445 --> 01:44:26.835 gives me hope that, uh, change is possible. 01:44:30.785 --> 01:44:33.045 If we don't have anything else to add, we've been 01:44:33.045 --> 01:44:34.605 at this for a little bit of time, I'm sure 01:44:34.605 --> 01:44:36.285 there'll probably be more questions that 01:44:36.285 --> 01:44:38.385 come down the pipe after this podcast 01:44:38.385 --> 01:44:40.965 and we can probably address 'em through 01:44:40.965 --> 01:44:43.335 social media or perhaps through, uh, future 01:44:43.335 --> 01:44:44.565 podcasts like this. 01:44:45.285 --> 01:44:47.085 If we don't have anything else to add, perhaps 01:44:47.090 --> 01:44:48.195 we, uh, wrap it up here. 01:44:48.225 --> 01:44:51.765 What do you say to Travis? 01:44:51.765 --> 01:44:53.325 Thank you very much for, for organizing 01:44:53.325 --> 01:44:54.495 this, for what you do and for having 01:44:54.495 --> 01:44:55.425 me on as your guest. 01:44:56.775 --> 01:44:59.025 I would agree with Nick as always. 01:44:59.025 --> 01:45:00.885 With everything he says, I am in agreement. 01:45:00.915 --> 01:45:03.915 Uh, cause he got a lot cause we get along. 01:45:03.915 --> 01:45:06.345 It's been a great, it's been a great podcast. 01:45:06.345 --> 01:45:09.165 I've really enjoyed, um, always great with 01:45:09.165 --> 01:45:11.085 you Travis and it's fun to have, uh, Nick as 01:45:11.085 --> 01:45:12.765 well cuz I like talking with both of you guys. 01:45:12.765 --> 01:45:15.465 So having both you on one is, it's like a, it's 01:45:15.465 --> 01:45:17.265 like a threesome that I've always dreamed of. 01:45:19.245 --> 01:45:20.625 . Well, I don't know if I'd phrase it 01:45:21.705 --> 01:45:22.425 quiet like that. 01:45:22.425 --> 01:45:25.965 One note, I, I do always enjoy speaking with 01:45:25.965 --> 01:45:27.045 you, your perspectives. 01:45:27.045 --> 01:45:28.755 Both of you are fantastic. 01:45:28.815 --> 01:45:29.495 I, and. 01:45:30.480 --> 01:45:32.970 Nicholas, I mirror your sentiments on 01:45:33.060 --> 01:45:34.200 what Dan said there. 01:45:34.890 --> 01:45:36.930 It leaves me with some optimism and there 01:45:36.930 --> 01:45:38.400 is some direction that we can go. 01:45:38.730 --> 01:45:39.690 Thank you very much.