5-MeO-DMT, Ego Death, and a Medicine Without a Lineage | Joel Brierre
Joel Brierre took LSD before school at 13. By 18 he had been through addiction to heroin, crack and crystal, had run with Washington, DC's criminal underworld, and had been in and out of jail. His first experience with 5-MeO-DMT came in a dope house where eleven people shared a two-bedroom apartment. In his words, there was no container.
Today Joel is the founder and CEO of Tandava, a 5-MeO-DMT retreat center in Tepoztlán, Mexico, and of the F.I.V.E. Institute, which works on education, harm reduction, practitioner training and research.
Devin and Joel trace the path between those two lives. It runs through yoga and meditation, teachers in the Caribbean, India and Mexico, and an ayahuasca ceremony with the Shipibo in which Joel was told the medicine wasn't his to serve, then shown 5-MeO-DMT as "a medicine without a lineage." They explore what makes 5-MeO different from every other psychedelic, why the last thing the mind asks before letting go is whether it's safe to lose control, and why the people who can hold that space have usually been through crucibles of their own.
IN THIS EPISODE
• Growing up biracial with seeker parents, and why he says lighter skin kept him out of prison
• Peyote ceremonies, a Wirrárika fire circle, and a rain ceremony in a drought
• How 5-MeO-DMT differs from DMT, and what it means that there is no observer
• The invented history of the "ancient" toad ritual
• Why low-dose vape pens aren't safe
• Raising capital during the psychedelic bubble
• What a safe container looks like: screening, preparation, two facilitators, and integration that isn't damage control
• Pairing ibogaine and 5-MeO, Eli Lilly's 5-MeO program, and the road to legal access
• How to vet a facilitator
CHAPTERS
00:00 Cold open
01:34 Meet Joel
02:34 Seeker parents and a multicultural childhood in DC
04:19 Early non-ordinary states and LSD at 13
06:04 Addiction, jail and the underworld
07:58 Yoga, meditation and a book that "changes lives"
11:08 San Pedro in Peru at 18
12:04 A ceremony that brought his father back
18:34 Peyote, the Wirrárika and the rain ceremony
23:00 Moving between cultures, and racial imposter syndrome
25:34 Crucibles and holding space
30:43 5-MeO-DMT vs DMT
33:52 The fabricated toad origin story
39:10 A medicine without a lineage
44:41 Vape pens and harm reduction
45:25 Founding Tandava and the dance of Shiva
48:50 Raising capital in the psychedelic bubble
54:53 Non-hallucinogenic analogs and brain health
58:10 Inside a Tandava program
1:10:54 Ibogaine and 5-MeO
1:19:42 Why Mexico
1:22:03 Eli Lilly, the FDA and the church pathway
1:23:59 How to choose a facilitator, and books to read
RESOURCES MENTIONED
• Tandava: https://tandavaretreats.com/
• The F.I.V.E. Institute: https://www.fiveinstitute.com/
• The Ego Trip by Kimon de Greef
• Tryptamine Palace by James Oroc
• The Toad and the Jaguar by Ralph Metzner
• Way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman
• How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan
CONNECT
• Personal Kosmology: https://personalkosmology.com
• Devin Martin, executive coaching: https://lifestyleintegrity.com
This episode includes discussion of psychedelics and past drug use. It is for educational purposes only and is not medical advice. 5-MeO-DMT carries serious medical risks and contraindications, and its legal status varies by country.