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Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Badder,
and this is the Silvercore Podcast.

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Silvercore  has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

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we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

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know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on

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everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club  and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

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he's a true legend in the
hunting and outdoor world.

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A renowned conservationist, award-winning
television host, and a passionate

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adventure With over four decades of
experience exploring the most remote and

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pristine landscapes around the globe.

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This man is a wealth of
knowledge to share with us.

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Welcome to the one and only Jim Shockey.

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Jim Shockey: No way to go now.

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I've gotta live up to that
for the next, uh, yep.

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Let's just end it right there.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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It's been nice here.

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They really, I figured

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Travis Bader: I'd front
load that one a little bit.

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I, I, I always figure, you know, if you're
gonna have somebody into your house, you

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don't get them to introduce themself.

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So thank you for being on
the Silvercore Podcast.

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You know, the podcast, our core values
are primarily about positivity and

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sharing people's passion with others,
and you have passion in spades.

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I have been doing some research
and preparing for this podcast.

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And holy crow, the number of
interests and pursuits that you

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have endeavored on in your lifetime
thus far are kind of mind boggling.

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And I, I'm looking down, I mean,
you've, you're, you're obviously, you

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enjoy hunting and fishing, but you
also enjoy literature and philosophy.

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You're a musician, you're an inventor.

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I don't know if many people know that,
but, uh, a photographer, an author,

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you've got an upcoming book called
Call Me Hunter, which I have already

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on the pre-order list for, which looks
amazing, which I want to be able to

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talk about in this podcast as well.

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But, um, my hope was to be able to
talk about things that maybe haven't

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been covered in as great as depth and.

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You know, with the Silvercore Podcast,
we're always trying to find different

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ways to not necessarily preach to
the choir or talk to the choir,

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but to find people outside of that.

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And I get the sense that's what
you're doing with your book as well.

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Am I, am I on the right track with that?

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Jim Shockey: Yeah, a hundred percent.

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Uh, I mean, we, we can preach
to the converted all day long.

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We, we have a similar,
we're kindred spirits.

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Our mindset's the same.

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We common sense is, is common with us.

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So, you know, there, there's a lot of
people that don't, they, they would

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appreciate it and they would recognize it.

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They would relate to it, but they
don't hear our message because

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we're always talking to each other.

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So, so the novel, the, the number
one purpose isn't to make money.

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I mean, we're giving everything away.

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My wife and I, you know, to a foundation,
everything we're, what are you gonna do?

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Bury yourself with a pot
full of dollar bills.

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So, so, hmm.

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You know, the purpose of the novel
was, was to reach outside of our

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core audience that, um, that already
know how we feel, how we think.

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Hopefully, you know, that
audience will also appreciate it.

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But, uh, you know, we, we've had
doors closed to us for 60 years now.

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We've been vilified, marginalized
in the mainstream media.

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Stereotyped.

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I mean, we're, you know,
buffoons that spit on the

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floor, no higher sensibilities.

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And, and that's just not true.

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We all know that's not
true, but that is bad news.

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It sells for $2.

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You know, good news sells for $1.

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They're not gonna say, yeah, these guys
are actually sentient human beings.

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And, and they're, you know, they,
they do have higher sensibilities.

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So, you know, I felt the only way to reach
out there is to play their game in their

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world, which means, you know, literature,
they, they appreciate that, um,

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fictional thrillers, commercial fiction.

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I mean that these are the hardest.

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Genres to actually break into.

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And, and I mean, ask Jock car, he, you
know, he's broken into it in spades.

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He's opened the door crack and
thankfully, you know, he's, you

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know, ushering some of us in as well
as many as, as, uh, you know, he

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feels he wants to put his name on.

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And he did that with me.

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He got me where I, you know, I mean, go
try and get a, an agent in that world

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to, to represent your work, your, your
creative novel manuscript, and then try

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and get a publisher, a big publisher
like Simon and Schuster is the biggest.

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Try and get him to read it.

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They get a thousand
unsolicited manuscripts a week.

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You know, when I was told, I mean, to
try and get your novel read by anybody.

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Anyway, uh, Jack was instrumental
in opening that door and, you

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know, sliding me through it.

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And now I'm gonna open that door
a little wider, hopefully, if

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this, if this novel is a success.

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So, so it is to reach out to
open doors to be able to tell our

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story what, what that we all know.

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Is a good story that needs to be a told
and represented in know what we do,

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conservation, the, the, you know, the fact
that we care about the wildlife around

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the world, that that needs to be told.

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So, so that's why I wrote the
novel to get into their world,

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give me a voice in their world.

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You know, as

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Travis Bader: Shane Mahoney,
he, he said something to me,

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which really kind of stuck.

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And he says, you know, just
because you're right, right?

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You can jump into that river and you can
be going in the right direction where

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you need to go, but you're fighting the
river the entire way with your hands up.

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You're never gonna win.

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He says, if you can find something
that's floating down the river, something

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that's got the public consciousness,
that's got the attention of everybody

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else, and jump on that and maybe grab
a paddle and be able to steer that in a

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direction that's gonna be beneficial to
everybody, you're much further ahead.

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And he looked at it from the, the food
connection with hunting and nature and.

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And the, uh, the amount that food is
in the zeitgeist and whatever that 20

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mile diet and all the rest, and how
foraging is, um, gaining in popularity.

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And he says, you know, if we can tell the
story through food, then that's one way

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we can grab that public, um, attention
and say, you know, there's also this

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story of hunting on the side over here.

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How, how are you looking at doing

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Jim Shockey: that?

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Yeah.

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You know, the, I think the, the food is
a, is a, a, a partial, a partial solution.

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I, it's very difficult to defend
food is the reason we're hunting.

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And it'll get you out of an argument at a
cocktail party with, with a certain crowd.

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I only hunt.

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But I do it for food.

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And that's the only reason I hunt.

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You know, I eat everything.

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I kill that, that works to a degree, like
I say, at a cocktail party level, but it,

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it doesn't stand the test of, of scrutiny.

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Um, you know, it, it would be
disingenuous for any of us to say we

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hunt for food, we do hunt for food.

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Yes.

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But that's, it is not because we
have to, it's because we choose to.

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And, and the cost.

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I mean, economically, you don't
fly down to Mexico to hunt COOs,

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deer, um, you know, for food.

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I mean, it just, but it, but you
can also say it's not for trophy

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because you're eating the food.

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Right.

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So, so, yes, it's true.

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And because we may want to spend
$8,000 a pound for our food, you

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know, that's our choice, you know?

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So, so again, it's, but, but it, it, it,
it doesn't, it won't stand close scrutiny.

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Not nowadays.

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I think you have to have a, um,
A spiritual connection with the

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animals, the, um, with the wildlife,
you know, you have to show that

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we have a responsibility, a, a,
a philosophy that includes it.

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And again, I, I'll bring it back
to a religion, you know, where the

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outdoors is, our cathedral, the forest,
the mountains, the hanging valleys.

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And I think that's, that will
stand the test of, of close

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scrutiny because we all feel it.

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We just may not be able to articulate it.

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And from someone looking outside at
what we do, we're, we're smiling, we're

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holding an animal, and we're smiling.

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How can you be happy?

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You're happy cuz you killed something.

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But no, no, that's not it at all.

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We're happy because we've,
we've, um, touched our ancestral

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soul and, and that mm-hmm.

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That's an argument or that's at least
a, a philosophy that it can be argued,

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it, it can be defended, uh, um, far more
to, to somebody that really looks at it.

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Deeply than, than just, it's a,
it's the food, food, food works.

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You know?

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Like I said, it'll get you out
of a, an argument at a party.

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But it's not, it, it, it, it
also, it throws a bunch of

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the hunters under the bus.

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It implies that I'm okay,
but they're not okay.

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Which, you know, I, I've used the
analogy, it's like a, a three toed

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dinosaur talking to a for toed
dinosaur dinosaur and saying, you

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know, I'm far more involved than you.

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I have three toes.

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You know, meanwhile, the, the comics
coming up, both of them, you, no,

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you're just argu, you're both dinosaurs.

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So, and I don't mean that in a derogatory
sense, dinosaurs lasted for Oh, I like it.

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Yeah.

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A hundred million years.

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So, so, so that, that's why when someone
says, we just, I only hunt for food.

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They only eat what I kill.

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Oh, that's great.

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What about wildlife management then?

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What about predators?

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You know, you're saying that you don't
kill a wolf, even though the wolves are

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decimating the population of ungulates to
the point where it crashes the population.

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Mm-hmm.

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Nature works on boom and bust.

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That's the counter argument.

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And then, you know, you
say, well, wait a minute.

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You know, we've created logging roads.

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You know, you look at British Columbia
where I'm talking to you from right now.

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Look at it, 60, 80 years ago
there was, you know, a few

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logging roads, main, main lines.

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Look at it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Now, compared to a, an
overlay map, it's like veins.

00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:25.350
It's everywhere.

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Well, as soon as you do that,
you create uber predators.

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The wolves become uber predators.

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They run the roads.

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Now they don't have to go over dead
falls and around cliffs and cut

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banks and, and, uh, rock bluffs.

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They, you know, they now have to
just go down the road until they hit

00:10:41.460 --> 00:10:45.480
a track where a deer that's out in
the field or out in the bushes, you

00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:49.490
know, across the road to go find more
food, the wolves hit that track, boom.

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Kill the animal.

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Come back up, run the road again.

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Now, You know, is there
scientific proof of that?

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Not really.

00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:56.490
Is is there common sense?

00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:56.850
Oh yeah.

00:10:56.850 --> 00:10:59.310
A whole lot of it, you know,
that that's what's happening.

00:10:59.400 --> 00:11:03.630
So for someone that says, back to
the argument that they only kill

00:11:03.630 --> 00:11:06.930
something they, you know, to eat
it and would never kill a wolf

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and never deined to kill a wolf.

00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:10.470
Well, that again, gets em
out of the ar you know, the

00:11:10.470 --> 00:11:11.401
argument at a cocktail party.

00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:18.390
But it doesn't answer what we should be
doing or doesn't accept responsibility,

00:11:18.390 --> 00:11:22.230
which is management of the wildlife
species on a scientific basis.

00:11:22.230 --> 00:11:24.810
So you're gonna have to
manage the predators.

00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.180
Well, I don't eat wolves Well,
okay, so the wolves kill all the

00:11:27.180 --> 00:11:28.320
ungulates and what do you eat?

00:11:28.950 --> 00:11:29.100
Yeah.

00:11:29.130 --> 00:11:30.570
Well, nature works on boom and bust.

00:11:30.570 --> 00:11:36.120
I mean, you get this constant circling
around of, of, um, the simple truth

00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:40.470
is that there, every wildlife species
in this world is managed nowadays.

00:11:41.310 --> 00:11:46.410
From whales on down and, and to
think otherwise is, is utopia utopic?

00:11:46.410 --> 00:11:48.180
It doesn't, it's not the reality.

00:11:48.329 --> 00:11:49.709
And, and we have to manage.

00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:54.510
You can't let nature do boom and bust
because there's 8 billion of us, us

00:11:55.530 --> 00:11:57.750
25 billion chickens in this world.

00:11:57.755 --> 00:12:03.810
There's 6 billion goats, 6 billion head of
cattle, 6 billion sheep y you know, that's

00:12:03.810 --> 00:12:06.270
where the wildlife biomass is turned into.

00:12:06.630 --> 00:12:08.280
We have to manage wildlife now.

00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:11.280
We have to, because it's not nature.

00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:15.420
When they wrote this boom and bus
cycle over hundreds of thousands

00:12:15.425 --> 00:12:18.569
of years, and you know, they go
up, they go down populations and

00:12:18.810 --> 00:12:20.790
the animals build up, predators.

00:12:20.790 --> 00:12:21.209
Build up.

00:12:21.329 --> 00:12:21.720
Yeah.

00:12:21.750 --> 00:12:21.990
Boom.

00:12:21.990 --> 00:12:24.030
And bust works when we're not around.

00:12:24.540 --> 00:12:25.829
But, but, right.

00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:30.510
So I, I, I just think it's a far more
complicated issue than just saying food.

00:12:30.930 --> 00:12:32.130
You know, it's, it's food.

00:12:32.189 --> 00:12:34.020
I, it's not defensible in the long run.

00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:35.820
I

00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:36.210
Travis Bader: agree.

00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.490
And you can't stick your finger
in the bowl of water without

00:12:38.490 --> 00:12:39.780
expecting to see some ripples.

00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:42.150
And we've stuck our finger in
it a pretty big way, and now we

00:12:42.150 --> 00:12:43.620
have to manage how that works.

00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:44.490
That's,

00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:46.530
Jim Shockey: um, eight, 8 billion of us.

00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.780
That's, you know, there's
8 billion, 8 billion of

00:12:48.780 --> 00:12:49.020
Travis Bader: us.

00:12:50.070 --> 00:12:54.170
So I thought it kind of interesting
you're talking about the spiritual aspect.

00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:58.590
You talked to any hunter out there and
that always ends up coming up Mo That's

00:12:58.595 --> 00:13:04.080
something that most non-hunters might not
think about is that connection to nature.

00:13:04.380 --> 00:13:10.230
That somebody who's out there in the
environment hunting has that deep sort

00:13:10.230 --> 00:13:14.730
of connection and that that spirituality
side of things seems to be in high

00:13:14.730 --> 00:13:18.810
demand nowadays with people seeking
answers and seeking, you know, since

00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.310
Covid and everyone got locked up and
they're, uh, stuck in front of social

00:13:23.310 --> 00:13:26.640
media and watching all this different
stuff coming in, something I found

00:13:26.645 --> 00:13:28.170
really interesting is a number of public.

00:13:29.325 --> 00:13:34.065
Uh, figures, reaching out, talking about
mental health, talking about spirituality,

00:13:34.335 --> 00:13:42.615
talking about, um, talking about how, just
getting outside, how beneficial that is

00:13:42.615 --> 00:13:48.765
for people to, whether that's, uh, on the
crystal ball, uh, side of things where

00:13:48.765 --> 00:13:53.295
they're talking about grounding and being
out in, in nature and, uh, grounding their

00:13:53.385 --> 00:13:55.365
electrical magnetic feel to other people.

00:13:55.365 --> 00:14:01.305
Just talking about the, the, just
the calming and the, um, the mental

00:14:01.305 --> 00:14:03.315
health benefits to being outside.

00:14:03.555 --> 00:14:05.365
I, I think that's an interesting area.

00:14:05.385 --> 00:14:08.955
That's a multi-billion
dollar industry in itself.

00:14:08.985 --> 00:14:14.910
The whole mental health area, which I
don't know if it's been properly, um, Are

00:14:14.910 --> 00:14:16.890
fully addressed in, in the hunting world.

00:14:17.250 --> 00:14:18.870
Jim Shockey: No, it absolutely has not.

00:14:18.930 --> 00:14:20.900
I mean, we, we, we know it.

00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:22.080
We feel it.

00:14:22.110 --> 00:14:24.210
So do I need to tell you about it?

00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.050
You, we know when we're sitting in a camp
over a campfire and the sparks are going

00:14:28.050 --> 00:14:32.310
up and the Northern Lights are above
us, and you know, we have our cup of

00:14:32.310 --> 00:14:36.600
coffee, whatever it is, you know, cowboy
coffee, and, and we've had a good meal.

00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.280
We've worked hard all day, fresh air.

00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:41.460
We know it, but, and we'll talk about it.

00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:42.720
We feel it there.

00:14:43.140 --> 00:14:48.720
But how does that translate to talking
to everybody else that's not out there?

00:14:48.725 --> 00:14:53.910
The ones chasing a second car, a bigger
TV screen, a, you know, a fancier

00:14:53.910 --> 00:15:00.510
restaurant, they, they've, they don't
understand because they're not doing it.

00:15:00.900 --> 00:15:04.590
And now when they're faced with
their mo own mortality, say, holy

00:15:04.590 --> 00:15:09.940
cow, my, you know, this construct
of my world is, is actually, you

00:15:10.210 --> 00:15:11.790
know, it's an upside down pyramid.

00:15:11.790 --> 00:15:13.050
It, it's really tippy.

00:15:14.040 --> 00:15:15.210
Again, 8 billion of us.

00:15:15.210 --> 00:15:18.840
It's a, it's a tippy world we've created
and, and when it goes, you know, tips

00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:23.610
over, or at least shakes, they, they
suddenly realize, whoa, you know,

00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:27.030
these constructs that I've been working
for that I think are so important.

00:15:27.030 --> 00:15:32.330
Uh, you know, uh, Oscar Delo,
Renta designer dress, I mean,

00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:34.110
I don't even know any of these.

00:15:34.110 --> 00:15:35.670
I know you sound Lorena.

00:15:35.670 --> 00:15:37.770
It's terrible that I can
actually name a couple of them.

00:15:38.345 --> 00:15:42.270
Chan Coco Chanel, you know, when
you, when you're striving for that,

00:15:42.270 --> 00:15:43.770
and that's the most important thing.

00:15:44.190 --> 00:15:48.420
And, and you know, you have your
poodle and you take it down to Central

00:15:48.420 --> 00:15:54.180
Park and look at my view of all the
buildings, but then that, that starts

00:15:54.180 --> 00:15:59.100
to wobble a little bit and suddenly
that, you know, penthouse Suite becomes

00:15:59.400 --> 00:16:02.220
a tomb, a jail first, and then a tomb.

00:16:02.225 --> 00:16:05.520
Because you can't go down the elevators,
you can't go down the stairwells.

00:16:05.850 --> 00:16:07.530
You're encased in this.

00:16:07.935 --> 00:16:12.705
This jail of, you know, people that you're
not supposed to be able to touch and see.

00:16:12.705 --> 00:16:14.085
And, and it's not natural.

00:16:14.835 --> 00:16:16.125
It shakes up their world.

00:16:16.515 --> 00:16:20.115
And so that's why of course, they're
going to turn back to something that's

00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:24.465
real, that they can touch, that they
can breathe, that they can feel,

00:16:25.365 --> 00:16:31.905
uh, I gu I I guess feel sated, feel
satisfied that they're living a life

00:16:32.445 --> 00:16:38.805
that is, is got value because it's
not value to have a a, a $3,000 suit.

00:16:39.435 --> 00:16:42.645
It, you know, it is, if you live with
a bunch of other people that all think

00:16:42.645 --> 00:16:47.565
the 300 or $3,000 suit is important,
but when something like Covid comes

00:16:47.565 --> 00:16:50.955
along and Covid was a joke compared
to what's coming down the tubes for

00:16:50.955 --> 00:16:52.605
us, you know that that's coming.

00:16:52.695 --> 00:16:53.625
That, that's nature.

00:16:53.985 --> 00:16:57.015
Na you know, nature gave a shot
across our bow on this one earlier.

00:16:57.015 --> 00:17:01.275
I don't know nature, what, you
know, I mean, we're, we are part of

00:17:01.275 --> 00:17:02.716
nature, we're instruments of nature.

00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:09.180
So if we constructed this virus, you
know, we are acting at the behest of

00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:11.370
nature and, and it's an experiment.

00:17:11.610 --> 00:17:14.550
A again, you, you start getting
into a big philosophical

00:17:15.540 --> 00:17:17.339
talk, uh, talk on this stuff.

00:17:17.370 --> 00:17:21.510
Um, but it, it covid shook up a
lot of people's world and that's

00:17:21.510 --> 00:17:22.550
why they needed something real.

00:17:22.610 --> 00:17:27.630
That's why prices out in the country
went up for land because people wanted

00:17:27.630 --> 00:17:32.190
to, the ability to walk out their door
and, and eat a radish from their garden.

00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:34.920
You know, they didn't have
to rely on somebody far away.

00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.500
They could, you know, get a
chicken and have it lay an egg.

00:17:38.070 --> 00:17:42.750
Um, that, that's a pretty
alluring life when, pardon the

00:17:42.750 --> 00:17:44.070
language shit hits the fan.

00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:44.630
Mm-hmm.

00:17:44.970 --> 00:17:45.590
And, and that's mm-hmm.

00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.780
That's what happened, you know,
and, and it didn't really, but

00:17:48.785 --> 00:17:52.110
they thought it did and that was
enough to, to shake up their world.

00:17:52.590 --> 00:17:54.420
So, so yeah.

00:17:54.420 --> 00:18:00.000
I, I, I think it's a good thing
that people are starting to

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.470
reach out into the outdoors, but.

00:18:02.295 --> 00:18:03.885
We have to be careful
what we wish for too.

00:18:03.945 --> 00:18:05.805
The flip side of that is 8 billion people.

00:18:05.805 --> 00:18:07.215
Again, I keep coming back to that.

00:18:07.235 --> 00:18:07.655
Mm-hmm.

00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:08.775
You know, that's the issue.

00:18:08.895 --> 00:18:12.135
So 8 billion people living in
the outdoors and wild and free.

00:18:12.135 --> 00:18:13.365
Is it wild and free anymore?

00:18:13.365 --> 00:18:16.665
Is there just 8 billion people from
New York City living where we used to

00:18:16.665 --> 00:18:21.495
go and, and commune with nature, you
know, and then who, like I say, the

00:18:21.495 --> 00:18:25.125
deeper you go down this rabbit hole,
okay, then, then who gets to do that?

00:18:25.635 --> 00:18:27.795
You know, who does, who
gets to be a hunter?

00:18:27.795 --> 00:18:29.685
Because you can't have 8
billion hunters out there.

00:18:29.835 --> 00:18:31.395
We never did historically.

00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:32.775
Not even percentage wise.

00:18:32.775 --> 00:18:33.435
We never did.

00:18:33.795 --> 00:18:38.475
10% of us were hunters and 90% of
us were support for the hunters.

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.975
Basically, we sup we supplied food and
we were good at it to varying degrees.

00:18:43.485 --> 00:18:46.965
Um, you know that 10% and, and
the others tried when they had to

00:18:46.965 --> 00:18:48.765
and they gathered when they could.

00:18:49.155 --> 00:18:52.005
But really they were support
for, for what we were doing.

00:18:52.005 --> 00:18:53.205
We were the ones that were providing.

00:18:53.535 --> 00:18:55.275
So there there 8 million people.

00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:56.445
There weren't 8 billion hunters.

00:18:56.795 --> 00:19:00.345
So, you know, the whole tribe
wasn't hunters and, and.

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:03.030
Yeah, we're, we're gonna have to, it.

00:19:03.030 --> 00:19:04.350
It's gonna be an interesting future.

00:19:04.350 --> 00:19:07.110
I mean, talk to me in
10,000 years, I'll be that.

00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:08.820
That'll be an interesting conversation.

00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:13.350
You know, we saw it coming and we
didn't do anything about it, or

00:19:13.355 --> 00:19:14.700
we couldn't do anything about it.

00:19:14.820 --> 00:19:19.081
And in which case, is there
something that can be done about it?

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:19.531
I don't know.

00:19:19.536 --> 00:19:22.350
I don't know what the solution take
a lot smarter person than me, but

00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:27.000
I think we have to look at this
whole picture in, in a, um, not only

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:31.650
more worldly terms, but in, in, uh,
temporal terms in thousands of years.

00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:33.900
What's, what's really happening out there?

00:19:34.560 --> 00:19:35.250
8 billion people.

00:19:35.250 --> 00:19:35.340
Mm-hmm.

00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.370
If anybody thinks we're gonna be able
to maintain this population growth for

00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:42.030
another thousand years, a thousand years.

00:19:42.030 --> 00:19:43.740
I mean, a thousand years
ago wasn't that long ago.

00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:45.210
I mean, 800 years ago,
it wasn't that long.

00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:45.840
No.

00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:47.790
Gangas Khan was running
around 800 years ago.

00:19:47.790 --> 00:19:53.040
Only we're talking not a big long time
in, in, uh, certainly geological time.

00:19:53.045 --> 00:19:55.770
It, it's a nothing so,
but a thousand years.

00:19:55.770 --> 00:19:56.341
Let's talk about it.

00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:57.330
We can't maintain this growth.

00:19:58.080 --> 00:19:58.800
It's impossible.

00:19:59.625 --> 00:20:00.764
The resources aren't here.

00:20:00.764 --> 00:20:02.475
We're already, like I
say, how many chickens?

00:20:02.475 --> 00:20:03.915
How 25 billion chickens?

00:20:04.365 --> 00:20:08.264
Arguably the, the most adaptive
creature in the world is chickens.

00:20:08.825 --> 00:20:13.514
So, so anyway, like I say, you, you,
you, if you start me on that, we, it

00:20:13.514 --> 00:20:18.524
gets, it gets deep and it's not as
simple and facile as just, uh, you

00:20:18.764 --> 00:20:21.284
know, going outdoors for fresh air.

00:20:21.495 --> 00:20:25.425
There, there's a far, like I say,
our, we have our ancestral souls

00:20:25.425 --> 00:20:29.595
inside us, and, and when our world
gets rocked, that's what we turn to.

00:20:30.345 --> 00:20:34.965
And that belief structure, that,
that peace and freedom and, and

00:20:35.445 --> 00:20:41.865
serenity, a sense of why, answering
why that's, that's important to us.

00:20:41.865 --> 00:20:42.764
And that's what Covid did.

00:20:42.764 --> 00:20:44.685
It, it shook up people's world.

00:20:46.425 --> 00:20:46.785
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:20:46.815 --> 00:20:51.945
Even if it was in sort of an
illusionary way, the prospect of death

00:20:51.975 --> 00:20:55.935
re real or perceived the prospect
of everything changing on them.

00:20:56.925 --> 00:21:01.695
I, you know, a friend of mine and
he's a philosophy student, and he

00:21:01.695 --> 00:21:04.695
says, Trav, the only thing, the only
thing that gives life value is death.

00:21:05.445 --> 00:21:06.195
I'm like, what do you mean?

00:21:06.195 --> 00:21:07.815
He says, well, think about it.

00:21:07.815 --> 00:21:11.865
If you had infinite resources,
infinite money, that money's

00:21:11.865 --> 00:21:13.245
not gonna have the same value.

00:21:13.305 --> 00:21:13.725
Right?

00:21:13.755 --> 00:21:17.835
That finite level to it is
what gives that item value.

00:21:18.105 --> 00:21:23.095
And so many people, I think, will
go through their entire life and not

00:21:23.165 --> 00:21:27.195
contemplate their own mortality until
it's smack dab right in front of them.

00:21:27.405 --> 00:21:33.225
Um, hunters on the other hand, deal
with life and death and have a very.

00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:40.800
Honest and intimate relationship with
it, which I think is one of the areas

00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:42.990
that is possibly missing in society.

00:21:42.990 --> 00:21:46.590
I know, um, Lieutenant Colonel
Dave Grossman in the States here

00:21:46.889 --> 00:21:50.280
who wrote on Combat, on Killing
on Hunting or a recent one.

00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.710
Um, but he talks about how death
being behind closed doors and

00:21:55.710 --> 00:21:57.450
the effects it has on society.

00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:04.170
Um, that's one full tangent that that
came to mind when you're talking there.

00:22:04.170 --> 00:22:07.350
But the other one that I think
might be a more positive way to

00:22:07.350 --> 00:22:11.700
even look at is if only 10% of the
people out there were hunters and

00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:13.470
the other 90% were supporting them.

00:22:14.385 --> 00:22:18.015
How do we celebrate those 90%
so that they feel valued for the

00:22:18.015 --> 00:22:20.475
support that they're doing, and
they're a part of that conversation.

00:22:20.535 --> 00:22:24.645
When I was in Germany recently, I was
talking, uh, with a fellow, he's the

00:22:24.650 --> 00:22:28.335
head of firearms training and hunter
education for the Bavarian region.

00:22:28.725 --> 00:22:33.855
And one of the things he's talking about
is, you know, a guy goes out and, uh, he's

00:22:33.855 --> 00:22:40.005
successful on, on his haun guy or a girl,
and it's then incumbent on them to come

00:22:40.005 --> 00:22:44.925
back and they're buying, buying drinks
and buying rounds for the rest of the crew

00:22:44.925 --> 00:22:47.715
because they wouldn't have been successful
if they didn't have the camp cook, if

00:22:47.715 --> 00:22:51.585
they didn't have the person helping, uh,
set things up with logistics and all the

00:22:51.585 --> 00:22:53.355
other people who play that integral role.

00:22:53.865 --> 00:22:55.155
So two different tangents.

00:22:55.155 --> 00:22:58.515
I'll leave, I'll leave it for
you to, uh, go wherever interests

00:22:58.515 --> 00:22:58.755
Jim Shockey: you.

00:22:58.935 --> 00:23:04.635
Yeah, I, you know, a relationship
is based on communication and

00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:09.185
when, and, and arguably respect
is, is the true basis of love.

00:23:11.115 --> 00:23:17.205
When you lose respect, when you've,
you're not communicating anymore, you

00:23:18.105 --> 00:23:19.665
take the other person for granted.

00:23:19.845 --> 00:23:25.304
And, and therein lies a fundamental
problem with, with marriages when,

00:23:25.334 --> 00:23:27.284
and that's just on a one-to-one level.

00:23:27.794 --> 00:23:29.965
But the same thing goes
with our greater community.

00:23:30.885 --> 00:23:34.635
When, when there's no
conversation, and, and I'm gonna

00:23:34.784 --> 00:23:36.375
now flip it into urbanization.

00:23:36.375 --> 00:23:41.145
We've urbanized over the last 60 years,
we've urbanized and, and things have come

00:23:41.145 --> 00:23:42.885
pretty easy to the people in the city.

00:23:43.334 --> 00:23:49.814
So it's really simple to take for
granted where their food comes from.

00:23:49.814 --> 00:23:54.074
For, as a, for instance, you
know, farmers, ranchers, you know,

00:23:54.074 --> 00:23:57.225
before we were, we were agrarian,
we, we were hunter gatherers.

00:23:57.225 --> 00:24:00.105
So that food came from hunting
wildlife, and it still does

00:24:00.110 --> 00:24:01.245
in many parts of the world.

00:24:02.625 --> 00:24:08.004
So the, the, the people, the urban
urbanized majority have, have.

00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:12.405
Lost respect for, for our skills.

00:24:12.885 --> 00:24:16.514
The, the ones that provided the,
the ranchers farmers, I mean they,

00:24:17.324 --> 00:24:22.635
you know, they'll shut down ranching
because cows, you know, make gases.

00:24:22.635 --> 00:24:26.715
I mean, it's absurd, but, but
it, you know, what they're doing

00:24:26.715 --> 00:24:28.665
is, that's a lack of respect.

00:24:28.774 --> 00:24:35.685
It's all, it's all a lack of communication
and um, and ultimately it, it results in

00:24:35.685 --> 00:24:40.635
entitlement and, and, and a separation.

00:24:40.905 --> 00:24:42.074
And that, that's what we've had.

00:24:42.074 --> 00:24:46.695
We, you know, the urban center,
the, and I'm not saying every single

00:24:46.695 --> 00:24:47.865
person, cuz I'm not gonna stereotype.

00:24:48.195 --> 00:24:48.975
We've been stereotyped.

00:24:48.975 --> 00:24:50.475
We know what it feels like.

00:24:50.885 --> 00:24:57.465
And, and, but, but generally they've lost
touch with what brought them to the table.

00:24:57.465 --> 00:24:58.665
And it's only 60 years ago.

00:24:58.665 --> 00:24:59.715
We go back 60 years ago.

00:24:59.715 --> 00:25:04.185
Yeah, there was big centers, but the vast
majority of the people are, a majority

00:25:04.185 --> 00:25:06.465
of the people were in the rural areas.

00:25:07.725 --> 00:25:12.345
With chickens, with goats, with their
cows, planting their gardens, anything

00:25:12.345 --> 00:25:13.755
access they took to the market.

00:25:13.755 --> 00:25:16.605
So the city people and the city
people provided what they provided.

00:25:16.735 --> 00:25:17.825
Accountants, lawyers.

00:25:17.825 --> 00:25:18.185
Mm-hmm.

00:25:18.685 --> 00:25:19.625
All those important things.

00:25:19.875 --> 00:25:22.755
I'm sure there's a lot of accountants
and lawyers right now that are

00:25:23.175 --> 00:25:24.615
throwing stones at my picture.

00:25:24.620 --> 00:25:25.757
I'm ducking and weaving right now.

00:25:26.575 --> 00:25:29.325
They, they're accountants and
lawyers I, they're gonna miss anyway.

00:25:29.985 --> 00:25:35.715
Uh, that's, so it's, I, I, I,
and I'm so, I'm sorry, but you

00:25:35.715 --> 00:25:38.295
know, I mean, I, I I love life.

00:25:38.325 --> 00:25:39.795
You said at the beginning, passion.

00:25:39.825 --> 00:25:40.215
Yes.

00:25:40.665 --> 00:25:43.485
I, even, even this that we're
going through is a challenge

00:25:43.485 --> 00:25:46.395
and it's, it's an amazing, yeah.

00:25:46.395 --> 00:25:47.145
I mean, wow.

00:25:47.145 --> 00:25:48.705
Look, look at what we're
going through right now.

00:25:48.705 --> 00:25:51.975
Look at the challenge we're faced
and the accomplishment is directly

00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:53.145
proportional to the challenge.

00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:54.975
The greater the challenge, the
greater the accomplishment.

00:25:54.980 --> 00:25:57.645
So when we come out of this
and, and figure it out, I'm

00:25:57.650 --> 00:25:59.385
hoping we do, uh mm-hmm.

00:25:59.775 --> 00:26:01.575
We, we can stand proud at that point.

00:26:02.175 --> 00:26:07.935
Uh, going backwards to your second, Your
second point about hunters understanding

00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:11.595
your, your buddy, the philosopher that,
you know, life is given value by death.

00:26:12.165 --> 00:26:13.965
That's 100% true.

00:26:13.965 --> 00:26:18.555
And, and any of us that are, are
myopically going through this world

00:26:18.555 --> 00:26:22.274
thinking that they're a cosmic event
and it's never gonna happen to them.

00:26:22.280 --> 00:26:25.845
It is, you know, it's,
and, and hunters know it.

00:26:25.875 --> 00:26:30.105
We, you know, goodness sakes, if anybody
knows about life and death and under

00:26:30.165 --> 00:26:34.365
and has a sense of an, an understanding
of how important it is, it's a hunter.

00:26:34.845 --> 00:26:37.245
I mean, I, I've seen it over
and I've augmented death.

00:26:37.365 --> 00:26:42.665
You know, it's, it's, it's, um, we
understand it and, you know, it, it,

00:26:43.455 --> 00:26:49.245
it, understanding it though, and putting
it into a personal, you know, I guess

00:26:49.845 --> 00:26:54.165
under personal relationship with it is
a different thing, you know, and, and,

00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:59.535
uh, you know, right now in my own life,
I, you know, I'm my soulmate 39 years.

00:26:59.535 --> 00:27:03.495
I mean, literally head over heels
and love the first date with this.

00:27:04.115 --> 00:27:08.970
Beautiful woman and, and healthiest,
you know, dancer, yoga instructor,

00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:14.490
never ate a deep fried anything in
her life, 66 years old and, and, um,

00:27:15.179 --> 00:27:18.810
suddenly diagnosed with terminal cancer.

00:27:19.350 --> 00:27:19.800
No hope.

00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:22.310
Three months to live,
maybe nine if you do chemo.

00:27:22.409 --> 00:27:23.970
And, you know, it's
been a year and a half.

00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:31.649
So I'm, you know, so I am, here's me now,
me, and, you know, suddenly this life

00:27:31.649 --> 00:27:37.560
and death that I've, I've understood my
whole life is right here, close to me.

00:27:37.800 --> 00:27:39.330
Clo can't be closer.

00:27:39.389 --> 00:27:41.370
Your child, my soulmate.

00:27:41.375 --> 00:27:44.760
You know, my job was to protect
my soulmate and, and our family.

00:27:44.760 --> 00:27:48.840
And you know, it, it's not easy.

00:27:49.379 --> 00:27:50.129
It's not easy.

00:27:50.310 --> 00:27:56.070
And, and I can't tell you whether, you
know, back to your point, you know,

00:27:56.129 --> 00:27:57.990
being a hunter, we have a sense of it.

00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:02.669
But, you know, we went to the
palliative care team the other day and.

00:28:04.095 --> 00:28:05.295
You know, they were trying to help me.

00:28:05.395 --> 00:28:09.015
But, but, uh, you know, I mean,
I basically said to the, you

00:28:09.015 --> 00:28:10.155
know, there's five or six of 'em.

00:28:10.155 --> 00:28:14.505
They're younger, so if any of
you gone through this, well, no.

00:28:14.535 --> 00:28:15.555
Well, you've seen other people.

00:28:15.555 --> 00:28:17.925
You've observed it, but have
you ever felt it and no.

00:28:18.885 --> 00:28:21.135
So you're trying to help me
that's going through it right now.

00:28:21.135 --> 00:28:22.215
That's much older than you.

00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:24.255
That's seen death, seen life.

00:28:24.255 --> 00:28:26.835
And I'm trying to try not
to be disrespectful cuz they

00:28:26.835 --> 00:28:27.795
know they're doing their best.

00:28:28.095 --> 00:28:28.245
Right.

00:28:29.085 --> 00:28:32.685
But I don't think that what they had
to offer was going to help me because

00:28:32.685 --> 00:28:41.235
I think as a hunter, knowing life and
death, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping

00:28:41.495 --> 00:28:46.095
that, that we do have a, a sense of
that and that this isn't, doesn't

00:28:46.095 --> 00:28:50.025
need to be locked up behind a door
and feared, you know, fear of death.

00:28:50.030 --> 00:28:50.835
I have no fear of death.

00:28:50.835 --> 00:28:54.135
I never have had a fear of death
or I wouldn't have done most of

00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:55.335
the things I've done in my life.

00:28:55.335 --> 00:28:57.285
It's, it's death is just part of it.

00:28:57.285 --> 00:29:00.825
With, without that, it's again,
your, to your, to your buddy's

00:29:00.825 --> 00:29:02.445
statement, the philosopher.

00:29:03.540 --> 00:29:05.340
It doesn't, your, your life
doesn't have any value.

00:29:05.340 --> 00:29:08.970
If you've taken away death as an
option, now you don't seek it.

00:29:09.450 --> 00:29:13.440
And the whole, I I saw a thing
recently where the, there was a hunter.

00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.190
I faced death.

00:29:14.190 --> 00:29:15.450
I'm gonna, you know,
I'm not afraid of death.

00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:20.850
I, well, no, you know, that's not right
because you, you should be following the

00:29:20.855 --> 00:29:24.840
five rules of being a hunter, which is
safety, safety, safety, safety and safety.

00:29:25.260 --> 00:29:27.690
Because the whole purpose of
hunting was to go bring something

00:29:27.690 --> 00:29:32.340
back to your family to begin with,
and then your greater community,

00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:35.100
uh, to, so that all of us survive.

00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:37.470
So you shouldn't be seeking out death.

00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:38.940
There's no beauty in that.

00:29:38.945 --> 00:29:39.370
There's no romance.

00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:44.399
There's no honor in that
at all to go seek death.

00:29:44.399 --> 00:29:46.139
And you know, I'm gonna face death.

00:29:46.139 --> 00:29:46.800
No, you're not.

00:29:47.070 --> 00:29:48.060
You should be avoiding it.

00:29:48.060 --> 00:29:52.050
You should be doing everything in
your possible power to not go there.

00:29:52.260 --> 00:29:53.970
But when it happens, you
should never fear it.

00:29:54.540 --> 00:29:55.680
And, and I, I don't know.

00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.195
I'm in this situation right now
where, You know, and I'm, I'm trying

00:30:00.195 --> 00:30:02.205
to look from outside in at this.

00:30:02.264 --> 00:30:03.585
Um hmm.

00:30:03.855 --> 00:30:07.425
It, it's gonna be, it's gonna be an
interesting, it has been an interesting

00:30:07.425 --> 00:30:12.945
time for the last 18 months and, and I,
you know, the, the future is gonna hold

00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:18.245
greater challenges and, and I will see,
we'll see if, you know, I consider myself

00:30:18.554 --> 00:30:23.264
a true hunter, um, on the spiritual
side of it for field to table living

00:30:23.270 --> 00:30:30.225
for every, you know, I've, I've u used
my life, you know, endeavoring to,

00:30:30.284 --> 00:30:34.155
to, to be that, that hunter in every.

00:30:35.054 --> 00:30:37.125
Way, well-rounded in every way.

00:30:37.544 --> 00:30:39.075
And that means being a theologian.

00:30:39.075 --> 00:30:40.514
It means being a scientist.

00:30:40.514 --> 00:30:42.615
It, it means being an explorer.

00:30:43.155 --> 00:30:45.495
Uh, you know, it means being an artist.

00:30:45.645 --> 00:30:48.495
You know, these are all things that
people go off in their little worlds

00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:52.385
and, uh, you know, never the twain
shall science and, and religion meet.

00:30:52.695 --> 00:30:56.175
Well, you know, 500 years ago,
we were all of those things.

00:30:56.175 --> 00:31:00.165
We were theologians, we were artists,
we were musicians, we were scientists,

00:31:00.165 --> 00:31:02.054
explorers, we were all of it.

00:31:02.264 --> 00:31:05.355
And, and now we've, you know, now
we don't talk because I'm this

00:31:05.355 --> 00:31:09.375
and they're that, and we explorers
and separated from scientists.

00:31:09.375 --> 00:31:11.895
So, and then hunters separated
from explorers and, you

00:31:11.895 --> 00:31:13.544
know, we just dichotomized.

00:31:13.544 --> 00:31:19.455
And so, so I, it'll be interesting to
see, back, back to your comment as I go

00:31:19.455 --> 00:31:26.625
through this, whether it'll stand the test
of, of a, of true, the deepest challenge.

00:31:26.629 --> 00:31:29.086
I can imagine, you know,
myself facing death, I, I.

00:31:29.895 --> 00:31:32.415
I mean, I, like I say it
because I'm, I'm facing it.

00:31:32.415 --> 00:31:33.975
I mean, I know you're facing it.

00:31:33.975 --> 00:31:35.085
Everybody listen,

00:31:35.985 --> 00:31:37.155
Travis Bader: the grand leveler of human

00:31:37.155 --> 00:31:37.635
Jim Shockey: greatness.

00:31:37.695 --> 00:31:37.905
Yeah.

00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:40.245
And, and we're just ignoring it, you know?

00:31:40.245 --> 00:31:40.805
But, but it, mm-hmm.

00:31:40.885 --> 00:31:42.585
When you can't ignore
it, it's right there.

00:31:43.025 --> 00:31:44.505
It, it's, it's a different thing.

00:31:44.505 --> 00:31:49.245
And I, uh, I'll, you know, talk to me
when I've gone through this, God willing,

00:31:49.935 --> 00:31:54.255
I, I get through it, you know, it's,
it's, uh, you know, and I know right

00:31:54.255 --> 00:31:58.515
now it's, it's living day to day, and
then it'll be hour to hour, then it'll

00:31:58.515 --> 00:32:00.885
be minute to minute, second to second.

00:32:01.515 --> 00:32:02.865
I, I think I'll get through that.

00:32:03.885 --> 00:32:07.635
It's afterwards, you know, cuz you're
starting now second to second, again, can

00:32:07.875 --> 00:32:09.825
you get it up to living minute to minute?

00:32:10.305 --> 00:32:15.225
Can you get it up to living hour to
hour and, and be able to live, uh,

00:32:15.315 --> 00:32:17.265
you know, day to day in the future?

00:32:17.265 --> 00:32:17.565
Maybe.

00:32:17.715 --> 00:32:20.655
That's my greatest hope is just
to get day to day down the road.

00:32:20.985 --> 00:32:21.555
But we'll see.

00:32:21.705 --> 00:32:27.255
D does a hunter have, have a better
ability to cope with this and not fear it?

00:32:28.020 --> 00:32:31.260
Um, I'm not saying you have to
embrace it, but you know, not fear

00:32:31.260 --> 00:32:35.580
it not to run my life and, and
object, fear, afraid of tomorrow.

00:32:36.810 --> 00:32:37.170
I don't know.

00:32:37.270 --> 00:32:40.920
You know, like I say, we'll, we'll
talk again in, in, uh, in the

00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:45.930
future and, and I'll hopefully be
able to answer those things and

00:32:45.935 --> 00:32:49.800
Travis Bader: that's a fellow I
know he manages a funeral home and

00:32:49.800 --> 00:32:55.350
he says something similar to that
and he says, um, you know, at the

00:32:55.350 --> 00:32:59.970
event, after the event shortly
thereafter, there's a lot of support.

00:33:00.030 --> 00:33:01.290
There's a lot of people there.

00:33:01.470 --> 00:33:05.040
That's not the time that he's
really concerned about individuals

00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:06.270
who've been affected by death.

00:33:06.270 --> 00:33:07.560
He says it's three months later.

00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:09.210
That's when they need their support.

00:33:09.270 --> 00:33:10.440
That's when they need people around.

00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:16.590
If the advice and counsel that the
palliative care people who work in

00:33:16.590 --> 00:33:21.780
that industry was providing was kind
of not, not coming up to a level

00:33:21.810 --> 00:33:25.500
that was, uh, of value for someone
like yourself, what sort of value?

00:33:26.685 --> 00:33:31.335
Or what sort of advice would you give to
somebody else in a similar circumstance?

00:33:32.175 --> 00:33:36.675
Jim Shockey: Well, you know, the same
thing I told them, and, you know, I don't

00:33:36.795 --> 00:33:44.445
try and help me right now, you know, help
my soulmate because their, their help

00:33:44.450 --> 00:33:48.435
was truly a deeply appreciated by Louise.

00:33:49.005 --> 00:33:52.155
Like, and it's something I can't
give because I'm so close to her.

00:33:52.155 --> 00:33:57.585
I mean, you know, so, so, you know, I'm
not, this isn't about me at this point.

00:33:57.945 --> 00:34:01.965
This is about Louise and, and
this is, you know, her journey.

00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:05.505
And I'm there a hundred percent to
supporter as they should be as well.

00:34:06.045 --> 00:34:07.065
I don't need support.

00:34:07.065 --> 00:34:12.375
I'm, you know, I'm, I, I don't,
it's not right now, like I say,

00:34:12.375 --> 00:34:16.875
living day to day, um, I don't, I
don't, you know, that's not for me.

00:34:16.875 --> 00:34:18.525
So they shouldn't use their time up.

00:34:18.525 --> 00:34:23.670
So my advice to anybody going
through this is well, In terms

00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:26.130
of palliative cares, absolutely.

00:34:26.670 --> 00:34:30.840
You know, take what they have
to give, but make sure that it's

00:34:30.844 --> 00:34:32.219
pointed in the right direction.

00:34:32.225 --> 00:34:35.759
And maybe there's people out there that
need it themselves that are the caregiver.

00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.409
Maybe they need it.

00:34:37.469 --> 00:34:42.179
Um, you know, I, I'm well aware of my
situation and I understand life and

00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:48.270
death, and I'm, you know, I, I'm not
faking trying to be strong or anything.

00:34:48.270 --> 00:34:48.540
I'm not.

00:34:48.540 --> 00:34:49.739
I just, it just is.

00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:51.029
And I accept it.

00:34:51.029 --> 00:34:53.580
And, and I, I've always
accepted knowing it's coming.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.489
There's no avoiding, I'm
goodness sakes, no regrets.

00:34:56.489 --> 00:34:58.890
So, what, what's, what's
the worry about it?

00:34:58.890 --> 00:34:59.819
But it's my soulmate.

00:35:00.279 --> 00:35:00.819
Um, mm-hmm.

00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:05.910
So, so again, accept what they have
to give, and if you need it, then

00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:10.950
certainly reach out and, and embrace
what they're, what they're giving, uh,

00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:15.810
for, in our particular case, this is,
you know, it's for Louise afterwards,

00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:18.210
I don't know, not never been there.

00:35:18.215 --> 00:35:20.310
It's, it'll be uncharted territory for me.

00:35:20.310 --> 00:35:26.234
And, and, uh, And, you know, life
is, is this amazing, amazing journey.

00:35:26.234 --> 00:35:28.545
And it ends the same way
for every single one of us.

00:35:29.415 --> 00:35:35.505
So if we live life and you live
till you die, why wouldn't you

00:35:35.895 --> 00:35:40.156
be passionate about every single
day and do what you love to do?

00:35:40.275 --> 00:35:44.505
And every single hour, if that comes
down to it, every minute, you know, every

00:35:44.505 --> 00:35:48.795
second, just love and, and be passionate.

00:35:49.395 --> 00:35:53.924
Uh, and, and not embrace it,
but, but don't be afraid of it.

00:35:54.464 --> 00:35:58.154
And, and just, you know, I think
fear is a waste of emotion.

00:35:58.185 --> 00:36:02.115
It, it, it binds you up in a
situation where you need to react.

00:36:02.775 --> 00:36:04.904
It, it's, it's, uh, it's not a good thing.

00:36:04.904 --> 00:36:06.884
It it, it's anticipatory.

00:36:07.154 --> 00:36:08.145
Yeah, exactly right.

00:36:08.150 --> 00:36:09.525
You, you know what to avoid.

00:36:09.944 --> 00:36:11.384
You know, that's what it's telling you.

00:36:11.390 --> 00:36:14.205
It's, but it's not something
you should never fear, fear.

00:36:14.759 --> 00:36:17.205
I think there's somebody, I have
nothing to fear, but fear itself.

00:36:17.325 --> 00:36:20.415
But truth, whoever said that I,
I'm, I should be able to pull

00:36:20.415 --> 00:36:21.944
that quote out or whoever said it.

00:36:21.944 --> 00:36:24.705
But it's, it's, it's the absolute truth.

00:36:25.064 --> 00:36:28.424
You never fear, fear, and,
and fear is just a warning.

00:36:28.424 --> 00:36:30.975
It's a, you know, it's spidey senses.

00:36:31.004 --> 00:36:31.995
It's, it is.

00:36:32.234 --> 00:36:36.225
And then that means, okay,
switch on because you're alive

00:36:36.225 --> 00:36:37.845
right now and know you're alive.

00:36:38.595 --> 00:36:44.444
And whatever's inside you is telling
you, uh, you may not be in the future.

00:36:44.984 --> 00:36:47.924
And, and we, you know, although
nowadays I think we fear

00:36:47.930 --> 00:36:49.115
discomfort more than we fear.

00:36:49.225 --> 00:36:51.714
Fear, we just can't even
see past discomfort.

00:36:51.774 --> 00:36:53.595
We, we we're afraid of that.

00:36:54.285 --> 00:37:00.314
Travis Bader: So it sounds like finding
value in being of service to others is

00:37:00.314 --> 00:37:05.265
something that, uh, Victor Frankl, the
fodder father of modern local therapy

00:37:05.714 --> 00:37:09.355
as one of the areas that he looked
at in his bookman search for meaning.

00:37:10.375 --> 00:37:15.540
Um, In doing my research on you.

00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:17.190
It was interesting.

00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:18.240
So Jesse reared it.

00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:19.830
I had him on the podcast before.

00:37:19.950 --> 00:37:20.790
What a great guy.

00:37:20.910 --> 00:37:25.380
And I don't know what you have on
him, but it must be good because I

00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:27.630
couldn't get any dirt on you from him.

00:37:27.870 --> 00:37:29.790
Everything that was
coming outta his mouth.

00:37:30.120 --> 00:37:33.930
I mean, it just sounded like,
uh, family sound like there's

00:37:33.990 --> 00:37:36.060
a, a family relationship.

00:37:36.090 --> 00:37:37.350
I'm in doing my research.

00:37:37.350 --> 00:37:39.780
I'm looking through government records.

00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:42.660
I've, I'm looking at
things that you've done.

00:37:42.690 --> 00:37:47.850
Uh, you've, you speak at engagements
around the world on conservation topics.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:54.720
All of the ones that I looked at,
I was surprised and not surprised.

00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:59.910
I, I was, I, I don't know if I'd
say surprised because it, it had

00:37:59.910 --> 00:38:02.670
confirmed a suspicion from my research.

00:38:03.150 --> 00:38:05.040
I look in like I wonder how
much he charged for that event.

00:38:05.925 --> 00:38:06.555
Zero.

00:38:06.885 --> 00:38:07.455
Nothing.

00:38:07.575 --> 00:38:09.105
You donate your time to others.

00:38:09.105 --> 00:38:12.255
You don't donate your time to
conservation over and over again

00:38:12.465 --> 00:38:16.005
in being of service to something
that's, that's larger than yourself.

00:38:16.005 --> 00:38:19.005
And that's what I hear when you're talking
about this, when you're talking about

00:38:19.005 --> 00:38:24.245
the palliative care, when you're talking
about, um, your passion in life is, seems

00:38:24.245 --> 00:38:30.765
to be derived from living life to the
fullest and having something meaningful

00:38:30.765 --> 00:38:31.905
and worthwhile that you're leaving

00:38:31.905 --> 00:38:32.355
Jim Shockey: behind.

00:38:32.925 --> 00:38:33.315
Yeah.

00:38:33.375 --> 00:38:33.645
Yeah.

00:38:33.650 --> 00:38:36.375
I, I mean a, a correct part of it.

00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:37.245
I do charge

00:38:38.655 --> 00:38:42.075
Travis Bader: not the ones that I, I
researched on the, on the, I I get that.

00:38:42.075 --> 00:38:42.265
You would

00:38:42.945 --> 00:38:44.205
Jim Shockey: Well, I, I do it.

00:38:44.985 --> 00:38:47.625
Uh, you know, supply and
demand is an interesting thing.

00:38:47.625 --> 00:38:54.615
If, if you make the, the supply so
expensive, the, the, it's funny how

00:38:54.615 --> 00:39:00.795
the demand goes down and, and that's, I
hate saying no to someone when they ask.

00:39:00.795 --> 00:39:01.685
And it's a good cause and I.

00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:05.520
I would love to be able to
fly to Pennsylvania and do,

00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:06.840
you know, do this appearance.

00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.910
But I mean, it's gonna take
me two days to get there.

00:39:09.450 --> 00:39:13.080
Um, and it's not fun, you know, I
mean, it's not, I can keep myself busy.

00:39:13.590 --> 00:39:18.150
Um, then I'll speak at the event
and then two days to get back.

00:39:18.150 --> 00:39:22.410
So it's five days of my life taking
a, you know, and I love the idea of

00:39:22.410 --> 00:39:25.530
being able to, if I was next door,
I would do it 100% for nothing.

00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:29.580
Um, I just spoke at the BC Wildlife
Federation here a couple weeks ago,

00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:33.780
the same night we had a hospital
foundation event, um, to raise

00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:36.350
money for our hospital, well, the
hospital foundation here locally.

00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:42.300
So I went, drove up, spoke at the
BC Wildlife Federation, no charge,

00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:46.320
and came back down, uh, in time to
see the auction item that Louise and

00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:50.160
I donated for the auction, which,
which raised the most money of, uh,

00:39:51.015 --> 00:39:52.515
Of any other auction item that night.

00:39:52.515 --> 00:39:54.855
It was a night at the museum
for 20 people or whatever it is.

00:39:55.395 --> 00:39:57.555
Um, you know, $5,800.

00:39:57.555 --> 00:40:00.615
So I was there and Louisiana went there
first, and she's not feeling well.

00:40:00.615 --> 00:40:04.605
So to her it's also important to, you
know, even though she's not feeling

00:40:04.605 --> 00:40:08.175
well, to make the appearance for
the community, to set an example.

00:40:08.685 --> 00:40:16.275
Um, and, and it, yeah, it, I think
it, it it for us at this point in

00:40:16.275 --> 00:40:19.815
our lives, I mean, I worked hard my
whole life to, to get ahead, you know,

00:40:19.815 --> 00:40:21.075
quote unquote, whatever that means.

00:40:21.080 --> 00:40:21.145
Mm-hmm.

00:40:21.605 --> 00:40:23.085
But we're giving it all away now.

00:40:23.205 --> 00:40:24.885
You know, that, that's,
we can give it back.

00:40:24.885 --> 00:40:29.385
We we're creating a foundation to give,
this museum that I'm sitting in right now

00:40:29.775 --> 00:40:31.695
are Handman Museum, and it's a big place.

00:40:31.695 --> 00:40:33.225
So it's 17,000 square feet.

00:40:33.225 --> 00:40:36.795
It, it's all renovated, you know,
state-of-the-art, everything in here.

00:40:37.245 --> 00:40:41.385
Um, we're donating the land, the
building, the contents, which is.

00:40:41.730 --> 00:40:44.250
I don't know, millions and
millions of dollars worth of stuff.

00:40:44.850 --> 00:40:46.710
Uh, natural history, cultural arts.

00:40:47.250 --> 00:40:51.120
Um, and we're, you know, planning
to sell our ranch in Saskatchewan,

00:40:51.120 --> 00:40:54.240
put all that money into an endowment
that goes into the foundation as

00:40:54.245 --> 00:40:56.160
well to cover expenses for 40 years.

00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:59.160
And that way it can always
be donation only at the front

00:40:59.160 --> 00:41:00.240
entrance, which it is right now.

00:41:00.270 --> 00:41:01.379
It has been since we opened.

00:41:01.770 --> 00:41:02.580
I grew up in a trailer.

00:41:02.730 --> 00:41:02.819
Wow.

00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:05.640
So I, I've never, yeah, I could
never have come in if there was a

00:41:05.640 --> 00:41:09.240
cover charge, but if it was donation,
I could have brought a, a tooth.

00:41:09.299 --> 00:41:13.770
You know, I found this tooth, you
know, the curator, a pretty rock here,

00:41:13.950 --> 00:41:17.460
iconic of Grasshopper today, you know,
and, and I would've been the curator's

00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:19.740
nightmare, but it's donation, right?

00:41:19.740 --> 00:41:23.790
So from, uh, here's the, here's
a quote, Carl Marks from, from

00:41:23.790 --> 00:41:26.940
those according to their ability
to those according to their need.

00:41:27.450 --> 00:41:28.649
And you know, he got that right.

00:41:29.009 --> 00:41:29.700
He did on that.

00:41:29.705 --> 00:41:29.990
He did.

00:41:30.210 --> 00:41:31.919
You know, that's both the end of Right.

00:41:31.919 --> 00:41:34.169
But, but he, that part was right.

00:41:34.290 --> 00:41:36.950
You know, if we can, we should
give back to the community because

00:41:37.540 --> 00:41:39.960
what are you gonna do, you know?

00:41:41.355 --> 00:41:45.045
In this museum, have a giant grass sale,
sell everything and have a big pot full

00:41:45.045 --> 00:41:49.005
of money and, and then bury yourself
with it, you know, like a feral Mm.

00:41:50.145 --> 00:41:52.665
You know, or or worse, give it to Eva.

00:41:53.025 --> 00:41:53.685
Oh my goodness.

00:41:53.685 --> 00:41:54.525
Our, our daughter.

00:41:54.645 --> 00:41:55.405
That's, yeah.

00:41:55.785 --> 00:41:57.765
She, she would have
the most Chanel purses.

00:41:57.770 --> 00:41:58.665
I'm throwing her outta the purse.

00:41:59.985 --> 00:42:00.345
Blessing.

00:42:01.065 --> 00:42:02.595
But, you know, they're,
they're doing well.

00:42:02.595 --> 00:42:06.885
You, you, you don't do a service to
your children by giving them so much

00:42:06.885 --> 00:42:10.815
that you take away their opportunity
to, to succeed in their own right.

00:42:11.115 --> 00:42:13.095
And to be proud of
something that they created.

00:42:13.605 --> 00:42:14.535
So to give I agree.

00:42:14.865 --> 00:42:16.275
You know, we, we tend to do that.

00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.125
Our generation, you know, like I
say, I grew up in a trailer park.

00:42:19.305 --> 00:42:23.025
A conversation every night when I was
young was whether dad would get laid out,

00:42:23.055 --> 00:42:27.855
laid off, and, and could we afford to, to
pay the mortgage when we did get a house.

00:42:27.885 --> 00:42:32.145
Uh, you know, that, that's, I don't want
my children to have to worry about that.

00:42:32.145 --> 00:42:34.456
So I did everything to make sure
they were protected from it.

00:42:35.234 --> 00:42:38.430
I don't know if it's the right
thing, you know, it made me reach

00:42:38.430 --> 00:42:40.350
and try and push to my limits.

00:42:40.740 --> 00:42:45.359
And it, you know, made me found
a find a, a soulmate, uh, that we

00:42:45.365 --> 00:42:49.109
were partners in that, you know, we
did this, I did this, she did that.

00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.560
But together we always worked
towards that common goal.

00:42:53.009 --> 00:42:55.259
That's something I'm very proud of.

00:42:55.259 --> 00:42:59.669
And my wife, every day this morning,
we sat there having coffee, watching

00:42:59.669 --> 00:43:03.899
outside, you know, the, the, the quail
and the rabbits and the squirrels.

00:43:03.904 --> 00:43:09.270
There was deer in our field, and, you
know, we're very proud of what, what we've

00:43:09.270 --> 00:43:11.490
accomplished because we accomplished it.

00:43:11.910 --> 00:43:12.589
No one gave it to us.

00:43:13.049 --> 00:43:17.700
And, and so when you give something, you
sometimes take away the A, the motivation,

00:43:17.700 --> 00:43:22.529
and, and B, you steal the, the person's
life, you know, that child's life.

00:43:22.535 --> 00:43:26.250
If you don't let them actually go
out there and challenge themselves,

00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:27.330
see what they're capable of.

00:43:27.750 --> 00:43:29.580
So, I don't know, we're,
we're giving everything away.

00:43:29.580 --> 00:43:33.270
And that's, uh, and I speak
as much as I can for free.

00:43:33.750 --> 00:43:38.400
But there's expenses sometimes, and
sometimes the places I speak at are, are,

00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:41.940
uh, you know, they're doing good causes,
but they're also making good money.

00:43:41.944 --> 00:43:43.170
And, and it's, yeah.

00:43:43.170 --> 00:43:47.580
You know, I have to be responsible
financially, so, so I do charge, I

00:43:47.580 --> 00:43:51.540
know there's people, wait a minute, he
charged us to speak, but I, if I can do

00:43:51.545 --> 00:43:54.299
it for nothing, I, I do it for nothing.

00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:54.720
You know?

00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:55.560
I, not for nothing.

00:43:55.650 --> 00:43:58.350
I do it because it's a good
cause and because Right.

00:43:58.620 --> 00:44:00.120
I can, you know?

00:44:00.125 --> 00:44:00.130
Mm-hmm.

00:44:00.210 --> 00:44:03.420
So, cause I can, I should
and, and so I, I do my best.

00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.960
It, it doesn't mean that, you
know, trust me, you know, good

00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.160
from far, but far from good.

00:44:08.160 --> 00:44:12.630
Don't look too close because, you
know, I have an ego too, and I, I have,

00:44:12.630 --> 00:44:14.850
uh, ambitions and that takes money.

00:44:16.215 --> 00:44:18.825
Travis Bader: Well, you know, one
of our instructors, and he is a damn

00:44:18.825 --> 00:44:22.185
good instructor, and he says every
good instructor should have an ego.

00:44:22.245 --> 00:44:24.825
I mean, they should care if
they're disappointing the class.

00:44:24.830 --> 00:44:27.015
They should care if they're
not living up to a standard

00:44:27.015 --> 00:44:28.125
that they set for themselves.

00:44:28.125 --> 00:44:30.705
So ego is not necessarily a bad thing.

00:44:31.425 --> 00:44:34.816
Jim Shockey: Um, I think if it's
justifiable ego, it's, it's a good thing.

00:44:35.175 --> 00:44:36.615
I mean, that's, that's confidence.

00:44:36.945 --> 00:44:37.185
Yeah.

00:44:37.215 --> 00:44:37.995
Confidence is, yeah.

00:44:37.995 --> 00:44:42.195
And, and it's perceived as ego
from someone that maybe lacks that.

00:44:42.735 --> 00:44:43.725
But it, it's, I agree.

00:44:43.935 --> 00:44:47.595
If, if you can back up your
accomplishments with your accomplishments,

00:44:47.595 --> 00:44:51.525
your, your, I don't know, I don't wanna
call it arrogance, but your confidence,

00:44:51.975 --> 00:44:53.395
you know, with actual accomplishments.

00:44:54.035 --> 00:44:58.125
I, I, I gimme that any day over
somebody who's spouting off, but

00:44:58.125 --> 00:44:59.775
has actually done really nothing.

00:45:01.105 --> 00:45:05.265
I, I, I won't, I won't name names,
but I, I could probably, for the

00:45:05.265 --> 00:45:09.495
rest of this podcast, I could come
down names not in our industry,

00:45:09.525 --> 00:45:10.875
but, but outside of our, yeah.

00:45:12.540 --> 00:45:12.960
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:19.290
You know, it's funny how often people
who've had that struggle in their youth

00:45:19.620 --> 00:45:26.490
go on to achieve great things in the
eyes of others as, as they get older.

00:45:27.089 --> 00:45:31.620
And I wonder, well, I guess
there's two, two wonders in here.

00:45:32.819 --> 00:45:37.799
Like three wonders now part of
having ADHD is your head just goes

00:45:37.805 --> 00:45:38.939
in a million different directions.

00:45:38.939 --> 00:45:42.210
And it was actually, it was one
of the things I looked at when I

00:45:42.214 --> 00:45:43.439
looked through all of your hobbies.

00:45:43.470 --> 00:45:47.731
I'm like, I wonder if it, I wonder if
you've ever, uh, been diagnosed with

00:45:47.879 --> 00:45:54.660
adhd cuz your, your attention and your
hobbies are so diverse and so all, all in

00:45:54.660 --> 00:45:59.939
so many different areas that it's, it's
one of the ADHD sort of, uh, factors.

00:46:00.629 --> 00:46:00.839
Jim Shockey: Yeah.

00:46:00.839 --> 00:46:07.799
It, but, um, adhd, I think, uh, You have
a lack of, of ability to focus long term.

00:46:07.799 --> 00:46:09.540
I, I can set a goal for myself.

00:46:09.779 --> 00:46:10.230
I did.

00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.960
I was 10 years old when I
set the goal of this museum.

00:46:13.319 --> 00:46:17.549
I was 10 years old when I said, when I
decided I was gonna be a novelist someday.

00:46:17.790 --> 00:46:20.340
I started my first novel, then
started collecting for this

00:46:20.345 --> 00:46:21.750
museum when I was 10 years old.

00:46:22.290 --> 00:46:28.319
Um, I have no, I have no problem
focusing for decades on, on achieving

00:46:28.410 --> 00:46:32.279
goal and just, you know, grinding
it out to the end because Yep.

00:46:32.520 --> 00:46:37.110
You know, I, I wasn't gifted with,
you know, my wife has more talent

00:46:37.799 --> 00:46:42.870
in, in every way in her little
finger than I have on my entire body.

00:46:42.870 --> 00:46:46.200
But what I have is the
ability to focus for decades.

00:46:46.620 --> 00:46:51.240
And, and if you, you know, you might
be the world's crappiest singer,

00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:54.690
but if you keep singing your entire
life, all your competition kind of

00:46:54.690 --> 00:46:56.670
dies off, figuratively speaking.

00:46:56.670 --> 00:46:56.759
Mm-hmm.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:00.069
And that's, you know, that's how
really I've succeeded in everything

00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.640
I've done is just, you know, hard.

00:47:03.045 --> 00:47:08.865
Just nose to the grindstone and, and,
and focused on that goal in the end.

00:47:08.865 --> 00:47:10.665
And now I, I do have several goals.

00:47:10.665 --> 00:47:14.325
I'll be working on this one while
I'm working on this one, and I'm, you

00:47:14.325 --> 00:47:16.065
know, running our little empire here.

00:47:16.515 --> 00:47:19.305
Mind you, I've got great people
now that handle everything.

00:47:19.575 --> 00:47:20.865
You just can't do it all yourself.

00:47:21.205 --> 00:47:24.645
And, you know, I'm standing on
their shoulders obviously, but, uh,

00:47:25.335 --> 00:47:26.355
but yeah, I don't, I don't know.

00:47:26.355 --> 00:47:30.884
I, I, you know, I, I don't have
a problem When I get passionate

00:47:30.890 --> 00:47:35.444
about something I, I'm interested
in it truly, we get one life.

00:47:35.475 --> 00:47:36.404
We get one life.

00:47:36.404 --> 00:47:37.295
So I.

00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.230
You know, I'm, I see a
grasshopper, I'm excited.

00:47:40.230 --> 00:47:43.440
A rabbit, you know, if I'm
hunting, you know, I don't care

00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.180
if it's a rabbit or a moose.

00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:46.950
I, I'm excited about it.

00:47:46.950 --> 00:47:49.710
And look, look, look around us music.

00:47:49.710 --> 00:47:50.670
Holy cow.

00:47:50.670 --> 00:47:53.160
If you looked at guitars, I
mean, in our museum, we've got a

00:47:53.520 --> 00:47:56.009
guitar collection here, Gibson's
from the forties and fifties.

00:47:56.319 --> 00:47:56.610
Nice.

00:47:57.630 --> 00:48:01.020
As late as the sixties, but
they're fabulous instruments, the

00:48:01.020 --> 00:48:03.870
sound that comes from them, you
know, I'm passionate about that.

00:48:03.875 --> 00:48:09.840
I, I wrote a song, um, how With Me went
to number one on the iTunes blues charts.

00:48:10.290 --> 00:48:12.299
That's why, yeah.

00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.610
Back in October, 2018.

00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:21.150
But it was because the instrument,
it was a southern jumbo, um, Gibson

00:48:21.150 --> 00:48:25.049
from 1953, an acoustic, and I, I
mean, I strummed it once and it was

00:48:25.055 --> 00:48:28.634
just, You're, you're inspired by that.

00:48:29.625 --> 00:48:31.395
And I wrote the song and recorded it.

00:48:31.545 --> 00:48:35.115
Uh, obviously I had some
session musicians and people on

00:48:35.115 --> 00:48:36.495
our team are great musicians.

00:48:36.944 --> 00:48:39.884
Um, and yeah, I went to number
one on the iTunes blues charts.

00:48:39.915 --> 00:48:41.984
Well, that's the instrument inspiring.

00:48:41.990 --> 00:48:43.545
Well, you know, that's
a passion for music.

00:48:43.904 --> 00:48:44.265
Yes.

00:48:44.265 --> 00:48:50.205
But it's, it's, um, it's just a joy
of allowing myself to, to look in

00:48:50.205 --> 00:48:55.125
this world that musicians holy cow,
they get to sit there and create

00:48:55.185 --> 00:49:00.254
beauty out of their fingers and their
brain and, and a, a work of art.

00:49:01.035 --> 00:49:05.595
I, I, I just, I just, to even be
able to touch, like I say, there's

00:49:05.745 --> 00:49:09.615
musicians in this room right now that
are a thousand times better than I am.

00:49:09.620 --> 00:49:12.435
And, and, uh, and, and that's the truth.

00:49:12.435 --> 00:49:17.895
And, but, you know, just to be passionate
about and, and love these things that

00:49:17.899 --> 00:49:21.975
we're, we're given, it's, um, Yeah.

00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:26.535
It, it, it, it's not d h adhd,
it's just, just a love of life.

00:49:26.595 --> 00:49:28.065
This one life we get to live.

00:49:28.065 --> 00:49:33.615
And I, from the very beginning,
once I was about 10, I, I intended

00:49:33.620 --> 00:49:39.884
to live that life at 100 miles an
hour and never stray from that path

00:49:39.890 --> 00:49:41.565
that I'd set for living this life.

00:49:41.915 --> 00:49:45.225
And, and I say you drive for
half a century in one direction

00:49:45.555 --> 00:49:50.685
with no, no side turns, you
know, you, you end up somewhere.

00:49:51.105 --> 00:49:54.075
And this is where I've ended up
with my life, totally satisfied and,

00:49:54.404 --> 00:49:58.154
and still loving the idea of, of
challenges like writing this novel.

00:49:58.694 --> 00:49:59.836
You know, I, I wanted to do that.

00:49:59.984 --> 00:50:02.444
So I started when I was a kid,
but I had no story to tell.

00:50:02.955 --> 00:50:03.105
Yeah.

00:50:03.109 --> 00:50:07.935
I, I hid the, my manuscript behind the
loose brick on our, on our, our house.

00:50:08.355 --> 00:50:10.065
And, and I was gonna write,
be a novelist, you know?

00:50:10.065 --> 00:50:11.085
Well, page eight.

00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:14.069
I realized, holy cow, I don't
even hardly know how to spell.

00:50:14.069 --> 00:50:18.210
I don't, I don't have any, you know,
we played hide and go seek today,

00:50:18.210 --> 00:50:22.109
you know, cowboys and Indians,
whatever we played that day, it, I

00:50:22.109 --> 00:50:23.460
really don't have a story to tell.

00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:24.690
So I, I filed it.

00:50:24.690 --> 00:50:29.671
I tried in 96 or 91, 91 93, I
wrote a novel called the Lord Lee.

00:50:30.060 --> 00:50:33.450
And it was okay, you know, but
my skill wasn't good enough.

00:50:33.450 --> 00:50:39.270
I wasn't, I hadn't honed that craft, the
right, the actual, being able to tell a

00:50:39.270 --> 00:50:41.700
story through words on a piece of paper.

00:50:42.180 --> 00:50:44.609
Uh, and, and so it's good,
you know, I still have it.

00:50:44.670 --> 00:50:46.049
I never published it.

00:50:46.680 --> 00:50:48.750
Um, why, why'd you hide it?

00:50:49.379 --> 00:50:49.589
Travis Bader: Hmm?

00:50:49.759 --> 00:50:51.120
Why'd you hide it behind a brick

00:50:51.120 --> 00:50:51.690
Jim Shockey: as a child?

00:50:51.750 --> 00:50:51.990
Yeah.

00:50:51.990 --> 00:50:56.730
It was actually in our, in our, um, we
had a den when we finally bought a house.

00:50:56.730 --> 00:50:59.970
It was a little 1100 square foot
house, but it had a little den

00:50:59.975 --> 00:51:04.379
with cork floors, and it had a, it
had a real fountain in that den.

00:51:04.379 --> 00:51:06.950
The people that originally built
a house in the early fifties.

00:51:07.710 --> 00:51:10.980
And, and so this, but, but
the, uh, fountain didn't work.

00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:16.080
Somebody put tadpoles in the, in the
little concrete fountain in her house.

00:51:16.080 --> 00:51:16.890
I don't know who it was.

00:51:17.250 --> 00:51:20.040
And they went into the, and they
plugged it up and then it rusted.

00:51:20.550 --> 00:51:24.060
Um, but the, there was loose
bricks actually on the side of it.

00:51:24.390 --> 00:51:27.210
And if I pulled those loose bricks and
nobody knew just me, I could pull the

00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:28.860
bricks out and hide it in behind it.

00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:30.030
So it wasn't outside the house.

00:51:30.270 --> 00:51:33.990
It was inside the house in, in
these bricks on that, that, uh,

00:51:34.830 --> 00:51:36.420
just a quick side story on that.

00:51:36.990 --> 00:51:40.590
Um, my mom and dad, when they got a
little bit older, they sold the house.

00:51:41.070 --> 00:51:45.430
Um, and they moved into a condominium
when they were in their late seventies.

00:51:46.200 --> 00:51:47.370
The people that bought the house.

00:51:47.370 --> 00:51:50.700
Just recently, someone got ahold of
me through Instagram or something,

00:51:50.700 --> 00:51:55.080
dms message and, and said the people
across the street were tearing.

00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:56.790
You know, or doing a renovation.

00:51:56.819 --> 00:52:00.089
And they found one of my time
capsules that I'd put back then

00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:01.799
with, with the important things.

00:52:01.805 --> 00:52:05.520
And, and I've been trying to get ahold of
those people to find out if, if it was, if

00:52:05.520 --> 00:52:08.069
I put my manuscript in that time capsule.

00:52:08.069 --> 00:52:09.569
Cause that's how my brain worked.

00:52:09.600 --> 00:52:11.279
Always thinking ahead, thinking ahead.

00:52:11.549 --> 00:52:12.480
It's gonna be important.

00:52:12.484 --> 00:52:16.109
Somebody, someone's gonna find this
and I'll be famous and I'll, you know,

00:52:16.109 --> 00:52:18.990
they'll, that'll be so cool when they
find that I was thinking of them.

00:52:19.470 --> 00:52:22.109
That, that, you know, how cool would
it be to find, you know, whatever

00:52:22.109 --> 00:52:26.520
Mark Twain's time capsule he put in
a, the wall of a house when he was,

00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:28.230
you know, when he was 10 years old.

00:52:28.799 --> 00:52:33.930
Um, of course I didn't quite get to be
Mark Twain, but, uh, you know, I was

00:52:33.930 --> 00:52:35.310
thinking that way when I was young.

00:52:35.339 --> 00:52:39.810
That was my, my ambition, my, my goals
were, were lofty even at that age.

00:52:40.140 --> 00:52:45.240
Travis Bader: Well, the, to me, the
thought of hiding the work that you were

00:52:45.240 --> 00:52:49.439
working on inside your house, behind a
brick would suggest that it's something

00:52:49.439 --> 00:52:51.660
that's probably deeply personal to you.

00:52:52.410 --> 00:52:53.100
Would this.

00:52:53.430 --> 00:52:56.190
Call me Hunter Book, be
a reflection of that.

00:52:56.399 --> 00:53:00.390
Jim Shockey: It's, if you read Call
Me Hunter, it starts with a little boy

00:53:00.390 --> 00:53:03.600
who's 10 years old, um, in a place.

00:53:03.600 --> 00:53:09.509
I don't wanna give it all away, but,
um, let's just say that, you know,

00:53:09.509 --> 00:53:12.720
to the second part of your, your
statement there, the, the call me

00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:15.390
Hunter is based on a lot of truth.

00:53:15.839 --> 00:53:18.810
I, I did not have to make up
very much and call me Hunter.

00:53:19.319 --> 00:53:24.299
Uh, and what I'll tell people is that
it's 80% truth and the 20% that'll put

00:53:24.305 --> 00:53:26.069
anybody in jail, that's all fiction.

00:53:26.670 --> 00:53:32.430
So it'll be up to everybody,
figure out I like that.

00:53:32.879 --> 00:53:36.660
And that, that truly is what
the, um, that's why they took

00:53:36.660 --> 00:53:37.920
the novel of Simon and Schuster.

00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:39.870
They, they haven't seen
anything quite like that.

00:53:39.870 --> 00:53:43.470
I wrote in second person for parts
of it, which isn't done in a novel.

00:53:43.475 --> 00:53:48.290
And, and, and third person, I mixed
them up and, and, uh, it, it's.

00:53:49.515 --> 00:53:51.765
Because it's so close to the truth.

00:53:51.795 --> 00:53:53.205
I mean, I didn't have to make it.

00:53:53.235 --> 00:53:56.475
I, I've lived a life that I didn't
have to make a whole bunch up.

00:53:56.475 --> 00:54:01.725
So it'll be, they, they loved it because
they couldn't tell, like they, by the

00:54:01.725 --> 00:54:05.747
time you're reading it, you don't know if
it's well, you know, and, and even Mark

00:54:05.747 --> 00:54:09.615
Sullivan wrote it or read it, mark, he
got one of the advanced reader copies.

00:54:09.975 --> 00:54:14.925
Mark Sullivan, fabulous, uh, bestselling
number one bestseller twice at least on

00:54:14.925 --> 00:54:16.875
the New York Times, uh, bestseller list.

00:54:17.445 --> 00:54:24.105
Um, he, and, and he, he emailed
me from, uh, Dubai, I think,

00:54:24.105 --> 00:54:25.575
or Arab and somewhere up there.

00:54:25.575 --> 00:54:29.325
And, and, uh, he said, he said, I've
been reading it on the airplane.

00:54:29.595 --> 00:54:31.815
He said, you've, you've, what was it?

00:54:31.875 --> 00:54:36.615
Uh, you've captivated me something,
something to that effect.

00:54:36.620 --> 00:54:38.355
And he said, that's
what a good novel does.

00:54:38.355 --> 00:54:41.625
And he said, I, I put it on my cell
phone so I can keep reading it in the,

00:54:41.955 --> 00:54:43.455
you know, for the rest of the day here.

00:54:43.905 --> 00:54:47.295
And, and he said he, you know,
if I, if it's his quote, they,

00:54:47.295 --> 00:54:48.165
as he was reading it, he.

00:54:49.020 --> 00:54:51.255
It was difficult to tell what's real.

00:54:51.255 --> 00:54:54.735
There's so much real in there
that he knows is real what isn't.

00:54:54.885 --> 00:54:55.005
Mm-hmm.

00:54:55.995 --> 00:54:56.145
Yeah.

00:54:56.145 --> 00:54:56.895
That, that's the beauty.

00:54:56.895 --> 00:55:02.835
But it does, does start back when I was,
or no, the character in the book, whose

00:55:02.895 --> 00:55:07.605
name is Hunter, it starts at, um, the
age of 10 for that character in the book.

00:55:08.295 --> 00:55:14.055
Um, yeah, so, so, you know, as far
as hiding it and, and it wasn't

00:55:14.475 --> 00:55:18.855
close to home, I I probably hid
it because it, uh, it wasn't that

00:55:18.855 --> 00:55:22.185
good and I didn't want anybody, my
sister, particularly, to get it.

00:55:22.755 --> 00:55:27.345
My younger sister is a great writer,
you know, truly talented and librarian

00:55:27.365 --> 00:55:31.065
in her life and read, has read
more novels than anybody I know.

00:55:31.545 --> 00:55:36.225
Um, you know, I probably didn't want
it to fall in her hands and, uh, and

00:55:36.230 --> 00:55:40.005
then be critically panned before I even
got the darn thing past page eight.

00:55:40.665 --> 00:55:42.435
So that, that's more, more, more likely.

00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:43.815
The reason that it was personal.

00:55:44.674 --> 00:55:46.305
Travis Bader: So I'm, I'm
looking at the time, and I'm

00:55:46.305 --> 00:55:47.865
very conscious of your time here.

00:55:48.524 --> 00:55:52.634
I have a whole ton of other things
that I'd have loved to be able to,

00:55:52.634 --> 00:55:56.084
uh, go on, but I realize you do have
other appointments you gotta be at.

00:55:56.384 --> 00:55:58.725
I've got some stuff on your
handwritten journals, your mentorship,

00:55:58.725 --> 00:56:00.555
you do bird watching, charitable

00:56:00.560 --> 00:56:00.975
Jim Shockey: work.

00:56:01.274 --> 00:56:02.625
Um, well, we'll answer 'em real quickly.

00:56:02.955 --> 00:56:04.754
We'll, you know what, we'll
go into 'em another time too.

00:56:04.754 --> 00:56:09.584
We can go in more in depth, but,
um, just your, your list there.

00:56:09.645 --> 00:56:14.294
My journals, I just, my journals
from my travels in Africa

00:56:14.384 --> 00:56:15.884
were over a million words.

00:56:16.455 --> 00:56:21.495
Uh, a long novel is 130,000 words,
so I had over a million words, just

00:56:21.495 --> 00:56:23.564
my, just my journals from Africa.

00:56:24.105 --> 00:56:26.145
Um, we're going through those right now.

00:56:26.654 --> 00:56:28.334
Uh, someday they'll be published.

00:56:28.334 --> 00:56:31.845
I'm not sure if they'll be posthumously
or when they'll be published, but, but

00:56:31.845 --> 00:56:36.254
they, they are being, I, I, I think
we've got it down to 180,000 words.

00:56:36.884 --> 00:56:40.154
Ken Bailey is a dear
friend of mine and, and a.

00:56:41.370 --> 00:56:43.440
Great writer and technician.

00:56:43.470 --> 00:56:48.840
I mean, he's, he's my go-to guy when it
comes to cleaning up that kind of work.

00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:49.170
Mm-hmm.

00:56:49.340 --> 00:56:50.580
He's, he's just good at it.

00:56:51.120 --> 00:56:54.960
Um, so yeah, my hand, those
journals are, that's just Africa.

00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:58.430
Then there's North America and South
America, south Pacific, Europe.

00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:00.870
I mean, they're, they're, uh, Asia.

00:57:01.830 --> 00:57:04.080
There, there, there's a
lot of words in those.

00:57:04.170 --> 00:57:05.520
I kept journals religiously.

00:57:05.525 --> 00:57:12.750
Obviously I'm obsessive compulsive, maybe
not adhd, but, uh, you know, again, I

00:57:12.750 --> 00:57:13.950
thought it would be important someday.

00:57:13.950 --> 00:57:16.250
So, so I, I kept journals
for that purpose.

00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:21.030
I, I've, and waiting in the wings,
I've got five books as well that

00:57:21.030 --> 00:57:22.710
are, call Me Hunter is my most.

00:57:22.770 --> 00:57:25.020
That's the one I really care about.

00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:27.840
That's, uh, not Care about, but
that's the one that I need to

00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:28.591
put out for a second poster.

00:57:28.596 --> 00:57:29.880
Your October.

00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:30.150
Yeah.

00:57:30.750 --> 00:57:33.840
Um, and, and I think we, you, you
know, you can pre-order it already.

00:57:33.845 --> 00:57:35.070
Just Google call me Hunter.

00:57:35.520 --> 00:57:38.610
But I have, I've got four other books.

00:57:39.015 --> 00:57:41.175
That are done, four or five, four.

00:57:41.745 --> 00:57:45.615
Um, the one's on bear guiding
stories that, you know, just

00:57:45.915 --> 00:57:47.245
stream of consciousness stories.

00:57:47.805 --> 00:57:51.705
It's all done, ready for copy
edited, ready for design.

00:57:52.185 --> 00:57:57.285
Um, there's another one, there's two
humor books that, um, if I have any

00:57:57.285 --> 00:57:58.306
talent writing, it's probably humor.

00:57:58.695 --> 00:58:02.265
And that's, I did that for u
under pseudonyms for a long time.

00:58:02.835 --> 00:58:03.405
Ace Toddler.

00:58:03.555 --> 00:58:03.735
Yeah.

00:58:03.740 --> 00:58:04.045
There you go.

00:58:04.435 --> 00:58:05.325
Yeah, you knew it.

00:58:05.905 --> 00:58:09.675
Um, yeah, so those books are
ready for design as well.

00:58:09.675 --> 00:58:10.065
They're done.

00:58:10.065 --> 00:58:15.295
And then another one of family one
I wrote this last year, 53 stories.

00:58:15.915 --> 00:58:20.775
Um, they're questions that I answer,
you know, as we're going through this

00:58:20.775 --> 00:58:25.245
journey, Louise and I, over this last
year, and about her past and my past,

00:58:25.245 --> 00:58:29.355
and even our grand, our parents and
grandparents, you know, that to tie it all

00:58:29.355 --> 00:58:33.795
in for our kids along with photographs,
um, that's a 480 pages and it's,

00:58:34.275 --> 00:58:36.615
it's, uh, being copy edited right now.

00:58:37.170 --> 00:58:39.029
Um, you know, then plus my journal.

00:58:39.029 --> 00:58:40.740
So those are all waiting
in the wings to come out.

00:58:40.740 --> 00:58:43.470
But call me Hunter is the
most important right now.

00:58:43.470 --> 00:58:46.470
That's the, that's the one that's looming.

00:58:47.040 --> 00:58:47.880
Um hmm.

00:58:48.060 --> 00:58:50.310
What was your, your second, was it poetry?

00:58:50.310 --> 00:58:51.180
You asked Poetry.

00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:52.890
Travis Bader: Oh, we have poetry.

00:58:52.890 --> 00:58:55.880
We didn't talk about a U F O encounter,
brain teasers, puzzles, magic.

00:58:56.790 --> 00:59:01.200
Um, all, all of these other things that
I've researched on here, but we, we've got

00:59:01.205 --> 00:59:07.589
a lot of material for, um, uh, possibly
a future podcast, but I, like I say, very

00:59:07.620 --> 00:59:09.330
conscious of the timings that you have

00:59:09.330 --> 00:59:09.540
Jim Shockey: here.

00:59:09.569 --> 00:59:09.690
Yeah.

00:59:10.170 --> 00:59:12.089
Believe it or not, I'll tell you why.

00:59:12.270 --> 00:59:16.470
I'm on a timeline today about last July.

00:59:16.770 --> 00:59:17.670
What are we right now?

00:59:17.670 --> 00:59:19.950
We're, we're in, um, almost June.

00:59:20.549 --> 00:59:21.060
Um hmm.

00:59:21.330 --> 00:59:22.859
So it's been almost a year now.

00:59:23.310 --> 00:59:26.730
I, I was playing golf one day
and my knee hurt, so I, you know,

00:59:26.730 --> 00:59:27.810
I go, oh, that's kind of weird.

00:59:27.810 --> 00:59:30.799
And I always carried my clubs,
did it, you know, and, and, um,

00:59:31.575 --> 00:59:34.335
It's my knee got swollen and sore.

00:59:34.335 --> 00:59:35.115
I couldn't sleep.

00:59:35.115 --> 00:59:37.815
I, uh, after a month, I
had it operated on her.

00:59:37.815 --> 00:59:42.135
Scoped out, and I played in our, I
didn't play golf for that whole time.

00:59:42.525 --> 00:59:44.835
Played in our golf tournament,
our club championship.

00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:47.265
I came third, by the way,
with two braces on my knee.

00:59:48.045 --> 00:59:52.335
Uh, and I may have been pushing
it a little bit, but it, it, um, a

00:59:52.335 --> 00:59:55.695
week after that I started getting
all, like, just couldn't move.

00:59:55.695 --> 00:59:56.655
I mean, there's video of me.

00:59:56.655 --> 00:59:59.385
I, I mean, I literally
couldn't get up one step.

00:59:59.385 --> 01:00:02.805
I, I just, every joint was like,
never felt pain like that in my life.

01:00:03.435 --> 01:00:04.035
Um hmm.

01:00:04.335 --> 01:00:09.135
So they stuck me on prednisone, which
is a wonder drug and a horrible, it's

01:00:09.135 --> 01:00:13.005
a devil's candy, you know, it, it
got outta that pain but made you feel

01:00:13.005 --> 01:00:14.295
like cropping, it's gonna kill you.

01:00:14.685 --> 01:00:18.555
So for this last year, they've
been working on solutions and

01:00:18.555 --> 01:00:22.515
just today is the first day that
they start a new type of infusion.

01:00:22.515 --> 01:00:25.545
Cuz I, I still can't work my,
I can type with my fingers,

01:00:25.545 --> 01:00:27.075
but I can't hold anything.

01:00:27.080 --> 01:00:27.145
Can't.

01:00:27.735 --> 01:00:30.975
Anybody shakes my hand, I just
will hit the roof, uh, shoulders.

01:00:31.005 --> 01:00:32.955
Ooh, I can't lift my arm above there.

01:00:33.404 --> 01:00:35.595
Uh, certainly can't, haven't
been able to golf for a year.

01:00:35.595 --> 01:00:39.525
So it's quality of life is a little
down on the physical side, uh,

01:00:39.525 --> 01:00:40.785
you know, pain on everything I do.

01:00:40.785 --> 01:00:44.715
But, uh, today they're giving me
an infusion of some new wonder drug

01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:48.795
that'll, I'm sure in 10 years they'll
find out that it makes people grow a

01:00:48.795 --> 01:00:50.295
third eye on their forehead, whatever.

01:00:50.299 --> 01:00:52.424
But, but that, that's
what I have to go do.

01:00:52.424 --> 01:00:55.965
And I, I couldn't even have a, well,
I wasn't supposed to have a coffee

01:00:55.965 --> 01:00:57.735
this morning, but I did have one.

01:00:57.735 --> 01:00:59.835
Cuz I think they're, they probably
just don't want you to go to the

01:00:59.835 --> 01:01:02.805
bathroom while you're sitting
there for hours getting infusion.

01:01:03.195 --> 01:01:04.306
So, so that's what I have to do.

01:01:04.665 --> 01:01:06.165
I mean, how pathetic is that?

01:01:06.170 --> 01:01:11.295
I have to run up to a hospital an hour
north of here and, uh, and get stabbed

01:01:11.295 --> 01:01:12.825
and injected with a bunch of chemicals.

01:01:13.215 --> 01:01:15.435
So, but I mean, you know,
what the heck right?

01:01:15.435 --> 01:01:16.904
It's just, it's all part of it, right?

01:01:16.910 --> 01:01:17.715
It's all part the game we play.

01:01:18.075 --> 01:01:19.275
It's, it's part of the journey.

01:01:19.279 --> 01:01:24.134
And, and, uh, you know, it is the
price we pay for the privilege

01:01:24.134 --> 01:01:25.965
of being this age 65 years old.

01:01:25.965 --> 01:01:26.445
So it's.

01:01:27.090 --> 01:01:29.850
You know, it, it's a privilege
to get to this age and, and,

01:01:29.910 --> 01:01:32.640
you know, lucky that I got here.

01:01:32.820 --> 01:01:36.630
Uh, actually when you look at the,
the various situations I've been

01:01:36.630 --> 01:01:41.340
in, so, you know, if it means taking
whatever, trying, I mean, what the heck?

01:01:41.610 --> 01:01:45.400
You know, it's just this one,
you know, 40 years knowing it's

01:01:45.630 --> 01:01:46.590
not gonna make any difference.

01:01:46.595 --> 01:01:47.970
Whatever is going on today.

01:01:47.970 --> 01:01:51.690
So it it, it is just, like I
say, you just embrace life.

01:01:51.690 --> 01:01:52.530
You get one life.

01:01:52.530 --> 01:01:57.870
I mean, live it, live it with passion
and, and, and love to, you know, that

01:01:57.870 --> 01:02:03.210
degree, you know, do what you love doing
and, and, uh, yeah, live with passion.

01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:07.680
I, I couldn't, couldn't give
anybody better advice on that.

01:02:08.475 --> 01:02:11.415
Travis Bader: Thank you so much
for being on the core Podcast.

01:02:11.415 --> 01:02:15.525
We will have links in the bio
in YouTube for people can order

01:02:15.555 --> 01:02:18.795
Call Me Hunter, and I really

01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:19.905
Jim Shockey: enjoyed this conversation.

01:02:19.935 --> 01:02:20.895
Yeah, it was my, my pleasure.

01:02:20.900 --> 01:02:21.525
It's always fun.

01:02:21.525 --> 01:02:23.895
I, I love a, a good podcast interviewer.

01:02:23.900 --> 01:02:27.115
It's, it, it, it's an honor
every single time and, uh, again,

01:02:27.175 --> 01:02:29.415
really enjoyed the podcast today.