WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:06.030 CJ: What's up, Colin? 00:00:06.030 --> 00:00:06.539 How's it going? 00:00:06.539 --> 00:00:06.710 What's 00:00:06.829 --> 00:00:08.259 Colin: Hey, how's it going, CJ? 00:00:08.319 --> 00:00:09.409 We are back. 00:00:09.479 --> 00:00:10.419 Build and learn. 00:00:11.140 --> 00:00:11.939 How's your week looking? 00:00:12.864 --> 00:00:13.384 CJ: Pretty good. 00:00:13.734 --> 00:00:17.427 It looks like you dropped in a link to an exciting announcement. 00:00:17.527 --> 00:00:18.777 What's what's the deal? 00:00:19.137 --> 00:00:22.667 Colin: it looks like you're wearing a celebration t shirt, but 00:00:22.707 --> 00:00:23.217 CJ: Yes. 00:00:23.697 --> 00:00:28.157 Colin: CJ is wearing his postman shirt today probably from some sort 00:00:28.157 --> 00:00:30.377 of DevRel collaboration or events. 00:00:30.427 --> 00:00:35.717 But my former startup Orbit appears to have been acquired by postman. 00:00:35.717 --> 00:00:37.817 So congrats to the team over there. 00:00:39.382 --> 00:00:42.812 And it sounds like they're going to be working on the Postman API 00:00:42.832 --> 00:00:47.612 network kind of more shifting gears towards Postman's developer community 00:00:47.612 --> 00:00:49.222 of APIs and things like that. 00:00:49.302 --> 00:00:50.522 But long time coming. 00:00:50.522 --> 00:00:55.132 So kudos to the team and Josh and Patrick for leading that effort. 00:00:57.537 --> 00:01:02.597 CJ: Yeah, it's it's been an interesting couple of years for Orbit, for sure. 00:01:02.707 --> 00:01:07.027 And yeah, it's good to see that everyone landed at a pretty cool spot. 00:01:07.027 --> 00:01:08.447 I, I like Postman a lot. 00:01:08.447 --> 00:01:10.737 I've been using it way more recently. 00:01:11.347 --> 00:01:17.247 And yeah, I think I have been surprised at how much it's increased my productivity. 00:01:17.247 --> 00:01:23.387 And I think like a big part of it is just like, staying organized with collections 00:01:23.397 --> 00:01:24.917 for all the different API integrations. 00:01:24.917 --> 00:01:29.477 And then under that, like having folders that automatically sync and 00:01:29.477 --> 00:01:30.757 then having different environments. 00:01:30.767 --> 00:01:33.207 So you got like your production environment, your local environment and 00:01:33.217 --> 00:01:39.507 variables and writing, like, I don't actually use the tests feature of postman 00:01:39.507 --> 00:01:44.987 for for testing, but I use it for like saving and writing variables that were 00:01:44.987 --> 00:01:46.657 the result of like a previous request. 00:01:46.667 --> 00:01:51.417 So you can say like, yeah, with Twilio, maybe you make an API call. 00:01:51.587 --> 00:01:56.627 That creates a conversation and in that response, Jason, you want to save 00:01:56.627 --> 00:02:00.447 off the conversation ID in a variable, like a postman variable that you can 00:02:00.447 --> 00:02:02.467 then use in other requests later. 00:02:03.047 --> 00:02:04.957 So yeah, I've been, I've been loving it. 00:02:04.997 --> 00:02:10.367 I think for a while I jumped between insomnia and a couple other different 00:02:10.367 --> 00:02:16.187 rest clients, but have you, yeah, have you been a postman postman user for 00:02:16.262 --> 00:02:17.172 Colin: I've, I've, 00:02:17.172 --> 00:02:18.862 had an account for a long time. 00:02:18.962 --> 00:02:23.832 I've been using it more because we have the API spec from discord that's 00:02:23.842 --> 00:02:26.092 feeding into the collection there. 00:02:26.972 --> 00:02:30.392 And I'm going to actually be at post con at the end of this month. 00:02:30.392 --> 00:02:30.742 So. 00:02:31.417 --> 00:02:33.167 Probably right when this episode comes out. 00:02:33.577 --> 00:02:37.637 So if you're going to be at post con come find me, but yeah, we'll just be 00:02:37.637 --> 00:02:41.357 geeking out on API as I imagined at post con and learning more about, you 00:02:41.357 --> 00:02:46.587 know, best practices around APIs, but we've been, I think we have like 1. 00:02:46.587 --> 00:02:48.257 7 I guess, 1700. 00:02:48.572 --> 00:02:51.372 People who are subscribed to updates to the API through Postman. 00:02:51.372 --> 00:02:56.512 That's kind of another feature as, as, as we update the spec, it updates the 00:02:56.512 --> 00:03:01.072 collection, and if you're subscribed to changes and you can see that downstream 00:03:01.072 --> 00:03:04.832 and we, we aren't using any of the test suite things or like the runners. 00:03:04.832 --> 00:03:08.122 I've been really curious to check out the runner feature and 00:03:08.122 --> 00:03:09.382 just see what else we can do. 00:03:09.892 --> 00:03:10.952 We have a bunch of different. 00:03:11.392 --> 00:03:14.382 Auth tokens and we need to document those better in there. 00:03:14.382 --> 00:03:19.192 And sometimes specs are like the technical thing, but not the how to use this thing. 00:03:19.602 --> 00:03:23.222 So we're trying to just figure out how best to show that, make that 00:03:23.222 --> 00:03:27.302 show up in postman so that you know what goes where and how to 00:03:27.302 --> 00:03:28.602 go get it and all of that stuff. 00:03:28.602 --> 00:03:29.102 So. 00:03:29.412 --> 00:03:31.432 Yeah, pretty cool. 00:03:31.592 --> 00:03:36.382 I use I use paw, which is, I guess now also was acquired, I guess a few years 00:03:36.382 --> 00:03:42.002 ago, but it's the rapid API client locally, but I only use it for myself. 00:03:42.042 --> 00:03:46.752 And I think the benefit of postman is that like figma style multiplayer 00:03:46.762 --> 00:03:52.297 of like, you know, back when I think figma has won the game on most 00:03:52.297 --> 00:03:53.567 things because it's multiplayer. 00:03:54.077 --> 00:03:58.797 What was the other one that was really popular before figma sketch. 00:03:58.997 --> 00:03:59.487 Yeah. 00:04:00.007 --> 00:04:04.482 And You know, Figma kind of ate their lunch because it just wasn't 00:04:04.482 --> 00:04:08.752 as multiplayer, and I'm sure Sketch is today, but Postman's got that, 00:04:08.922 --> 00:04:12.572 that it's great for teams, so having workspaces and all of that. 00:04:14.117 --> 00:04:14.507 CJ: Yeah. 00:04:14.957 --> 00:04:17.997 Did I read correctly that orbit is basically going to 00:04:17.997 --> 00:04:20.507 shut down like the existing. 00:04:21.032 --> 00:04:21.472 Colin: It looks 00:04:21.472 --> 00:04:21.692 like 00:04:21.947 --> 00:04:24.037 CJ: yeah, orbit's closing down. 00:04:24.837 --> 00:04:27.877 They're pivoting, but I think like there's, there's pretty good 00:04:27.877 --> 00:04:31.947 alignment between the audience that orbit was going after and the 00:04:31.947 --> 00:04:33.507 audience that postman is serving. 00:04:33.557 --> 00:04:38.317 And so like basically just continuing to grow developer communities, making it 00:04:38.317 --> 00:04:40.487 easier for people to connect with other. 00:04:40.487 --> 00:04:40.517 Yeah. 00:04:41.397 --> 00:04:42.917 Folks that are using your API, 00:04:43.762 --> 00:04:44.652 Colin: Yeah, and I 00:04:44.877 --> 00:04:45.157 CJ: to make a lot of, 00:04:45.392 --> 00:04:49.042 Colin: I just have what's in Patrick's announcement email here. 00:04:49.042 --> 00:04:52.262 So I don't know anything beyond the, the blog posts that are public, 00:04:52.292 --> 00:04:56.152 but yeah, the Orbit team will be working on the Postman API network. 00:04:56.502 --> 00:05:00.752 If you're using Orbit, Orbit users have 90 days to wind down export 00:05:00.752 --> 00:05:03.282 their data, so no more new data. 00:05:03.292 --> 00:05:05.482 There won't be new data ingested and things like that. 00:05:05.482 --> 00:05:09.182 So, which there's a lot, there's a lot of data flown through. 00:05:09.312 --> 00:05:10.902 I think we talked about it on the show. 00:05:11.112 --> 00:05:15.522 Some of the things that that I spoke on at RailsConf around that whole 00:05:15.632 --> 00:05:19.882 network integration suite of how we would integrate data and pull that in. 00:05:19.882 --> 00:05:22.362 I imagine they'll probably use some of that. 00:05:22.392 --> 00:05:22.812 We'll see. 00:05:23.142 --> 00:05:23.772 It's pretty cool. 00:05:25.517 --> 00:05:30.547 CJ: it, it also like just taking a step back and looking at this acquisition, 00:05:31.027 --> 00:05:36.147 it's another data point that building a company around like lots of API 00:05:36.147 --> 00:05:39.467 integrations still does not seem to. 00:05:40.502 --> 00:05:42.552 Work like perfectly right. 00:05:42.552 --> 00:05:44.212 Like which is disappointing. 00:05:44.212 --> 00:05:46.552 Cause that's like the favorite kind of thing that I like to build. 00:05:47.722 --> 00:05:48.822 So I don't know. 00:05:48.892 --> 00:05:53.942 It's what, do you have a sense of like the trend there or the pattern there, 00:05:53.942 --> 00:05:57.692 or like things that people ought to look out for if they want to go down 00:05:57.692 --> 00:06:02.622 the road of numerous or, you know, building an API integration company, 00:06:02.702 --> 00:06:03.022 Colin: Yeah. 00:06:03.022 --> 00:06:06.682 I think, I think like you and I have more experience than that, than the normal 00:06:06.712 --> 00:06:10.562 engineer, I think, or not the normal engineer, but the, you know, the average 00:06:10.562 --> 00:06:14.142 engineer has probably dealt with some APIs, but you and I have had to integrate 00:06:14.142 --> 00:06:16.832 with dozens and dozens in one app. 00:06:16.872 --> 00:06:17.202 Right. 00:06:17.202 --> 00:06:17.632 Okay. 00:06:18.197 --> 00:06:22.407 What I like about the acquisition is that it's proving and showing that there 00:06:22.417 --> 00:06:27.277 are startups still being acquired by the companies that are not the Microsoft's 00:06:27.277 --> 00:06:34.027 Googles, but that tier below that Postman has a great user base, great community. 00:06:34.027 --> 00:06:36.547 They have the ability to buy companies. 00:06:36.987 --> 00:06:38.707 So things like that are great. 00:06:38.707 --> 00:06:41.267 Cloudflare has been buying a bunch of companies, things like that. 00:06:41.267 --> 00:06:43.537 So it makes for a healthy ecosystem. 00:06:43.537 --> 00:06:46.517 If people are still wanting to start something, I think, which is great. 00:06:47.647 --> 00:06:48.527 You're right. 00:06:48.812 --> 00:06:53.712 In that if you focus on the integrations, you can spend all your time there. 00:06:54.212 --> 00:06:57.462 and lose sight of the problem that you were trying to solve for 00:06:57.462 --> 00:06:58.832 the customer in the first place. 00:06:59.472 --> 00:07:05.012 And there's this long tail of integrations that like, is the, the nth next 00:07:05.042 --> 00:07:09.752 integration really going to add product market fit, or do you need to solve the 00:07:09.752 --> 00:07:14.732 problem for people who use one or two of those integrations and just say like, 00:07:15.092 --> 00:07:17.612 yeah, we are the best tool for this. 00:07:18.142 --> 00:07:19.262 And I've thought about that. 00:07:19.262 --> 00:07:21.762 Like if I ever did build co working software. 00:07:22.307 --> 00:07:26.067 I would say it's the best co working software for Stripe users, period. 00:07:26.117 --> 00:07:30.317 Like, I would not want to touch PayPal or any of the other 00:07:30.427 --> 00:07:32.117 hundred payment providers. 00:07:32.667 --> 00:07:35.667 And people will probably then give you reviews of like, oh, they don't 00:07:35.667 --> 00:07:37.667 support X, so I'm not going to do it. 00:07:37.667 --> 00:07:40.707 And it's like, yeah, but it's just a really, really long bridge to 00:07:40.727 --> 00:07:43.917 nowhere when you're integrating every single thing under the sun. 00:07:45.167 --> 00:07:48.177 Because then you got to support them all, maintain them all, 00:07:48.317 --> 00:07:49.717 answer questions on all of them. 00:07:49.727 --> 00:07:51.227 You got to learn them all really well. 00:07:52.712 --> 00:07:53.072 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:07:53.142 --> 00:07:54.372 Colin: that's kind of where I'm thinking about it. 00:07:54.412 --> 00:07:58.472 I still love integrations and APIs and all of that, but I do think 00:07:58.492 --> 00:08:02.212 quality over quantity is probably the winning formula going forward. 00:08:03.462 --> 00:08:03.852 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:08:04.582 --> 00:08:04.852 Yeah. 00:08:04.852 --> 00:08:10.412 It also seems like at some point, Orbit was encouraging people to 00:08:10.412 --> 00:08:12.812 build their own integrations, right? 00:08:12.812 --> 00:08:15.502 And just like use the Orbit API, but build your own integration. 00:08:16.892 --> 00:08:22.607 I am struck by the fact that like Zapier, Make. 00:08:22.847 --> 00:08:26.697 com you know, if this than that, like these types of companies where it is 00:08:26.737 --> 00:08:31.627 purely like the integration platform that those they're able to be successful. 00:08:32.497 --> 00:08:37.267 And I wonder if it's because they've reached some sort of critical mass 00:08:37.287 --> 00:08:41.747 where they have enough integrations where they can get people to use it. 00:08:41.747 --> 00:08:44.717 And then by people using it, that encourages third 00:08:44.717 --> 00:08:45.837 parties to build their own. 00:08:46.677 --> 00:08:47.787 Apps like on top of it. 00:08:47.787 --> 00:08:53.707 And that just like creates a network effect that continues to drive more 00:08:53.717 --> 00:08:56.277 integrations from third parties. 00:08:56.307 --> 00:08:56.707 I don't know. 00:08:56.717 --> 00:09:01.757 Like, how do you, yeah, basically, how do you reach that that critical 00:09:02.007 --> 00:09:02.347 Colin: Yeah. 00:09:02.857 --> 00:09:03.677 CJ: to get people to use 00:09:03.817 --> 00:09:07.367 Colin: Well, and with Zapier, like the Orbit Zap, we had to 00:09:07.367 --> 00:09:09.617 maintain it, not, but right. 00:09:09.617 --> 00:09:10.147 So like. 00:09:10.532 --> 00:09:13.862 They don't have to learn if someone wants it, someone's going to 00:09:13.872 --> 00:09:16.952 build it and it doesn't have to be that company that builds it. 00:09:17.012 --> 00:09:19.692 Sometimes, sometimes it can be a third party dev. 00:09:20.382 --> 00:09:20.822 You're right. 00:09:20.842 --> 00:09:25.762 Make a lot of this is like user generated or third party supported integrations, 00:09:25.762 --> 00:09:26.982 which come with their own issues. 00:09:27.787 --> 00:09:32.007 Right, like if you release a new feature and then it's not in the third party 00:09:32.007 --> 00:09:36.567 thing then that can be harder and you can't go make a third party go add a new 00:09:36.577 --> 00:09:39.767 feature or something Or maybe they don't implement it the way you want them to 00:09:39.767 --> 00:09:44.237 or how you would do it make is a good example There is another announcement 00:09:44.237 --> 00:09:48.377 that i'll share in in the show notes too, which is that auto code is shutting down 00:09:48.987 --> 00:09:54.572 and They are one of these similar tools, like API integrate with all the things, 00:09:54.572 --> 00:09:57.652 but it was also like kind of replete. 00:09:57.672 --> 00:10:01.502 Like you could write code in the browser and do chat bots and things like that. 00:10:02.172 --> 00:10:06.492 And when you dig into it, it was run by a very small team. 00:10:07.032 --> 00:10:08.832 I know about them because of discord. 00:10:08.832 --> 00:10:12.242 There's a lot of discord bots or rather a lot of people learned how 00:10:12.242 --> 00:10:14.032 to build discord bots using this. 00:10:14.542 --> 00:10:17.832 And they even talked about this on Twitter at auto code. 00:10:18.252 --> 00:10:22.742 A lot of people learned to use the APIs and build bots here, but then they 00:10:22.812 --> 00:10:24.972 went, they graduated off of auto code. 00:10:25.052 --> 00:10:28.712 Like as soon as they were, they learned it, they would go spin up their own 00:10:28.712 --> 00:10:31.552 Heroku or their own box somewhere, and then they would have their own app. 00:10:32.062 --> 00:10:34.372 And the person who ran this. 00:10:34.617 --> 00:10:38.177 is going over to OpenAI because there were a lot of GPT bots 00:10:38.177 --> 00:10:39.157 that were built with this. 00:10:39.537 --> 00:10:42.807 So, as far as I can see from the announcement, AutoCode is going to get 00:10:42.807 --> 00:10:46.397 shut down but they have this really cool project that's called Instant. 00:10:46.617 --> 00:10:51.377 dev that they run, so I'm curious to see It's an open source thing. 00:10:51.387 --> 00:10:54.517 They basically have said, like, if you want to take your auto code projects, 00:10:54.707 --> 00:10:56.207 you can spin them up with instant. 00:10:56.377 --> 00:11:00.847 dev on CloudFlare or wherever you really want to host it. 00:11:01.467 --> 00:11:02.817 I don't know if it actually is CloudFlare. 00:11:03.217 --> 00:11:07.157 There's like a bunch of acquisitions that I'm now kind of getting crossed 00:11:07.157 --> 00:11:10.347 in my head because the other one that I'm kind of excited about, 00:11:10.347 --> 00:11:11.467 this is just the acquisition show. 00:11:12.057 --> 00:11:13.717 Is partykit. 00:11:13.777 --> 00:11:16.277 io is being acquired by CloudFlare. 00:11:16.957 --> 00:11:21.117 And this is like a really cool way of adding multiplayer and 00:11:21.117 --> 00:11:22.727 collaboration, like, like y. 00:11:22.737 --> 00:11:26.787 js auto merging of documents and things like Google Docs style. 00:11:27.227 --> 00:11:28.727 And if you go to partykit. 00:11:28.727 --> 00:11:31.437 io right now, CJ, you see my cursor and I see your cursor. 00:11:31.917 --> 00:11:35.317 So this powers that like Figma style multi thing. 00:11:35.317 --> 00:11:38.117 And I think if you hit slash, it doesn't work on the website. 00:11:38.117 --> 00:11:38.137 Okay. 00:11:38.647 --> 00:11:42.057 But they had the ability to type and then the, the typing would happen. 00:11:42.057 --> 00:11:44.697 And even in that background you can see that the, the background 00:11:44.697 --> 00:11:46.977 is changing based on your cursor. 00:11:47.457 --> 00:11:51.847 So, this like multiplayer state is handled by PartyKit. 00:11:52.017 --> 00:11:54.847 And so, they just got acquired by Cloudflare. 00:11:55.227 --> 00:11:58.287 So like, there's a theme here of APIs. 00:11:59.727 --> 00:12:00.507 State. 00:12:01.557 --> 00:12:02.607 multiplayer. 00:12:02.737 --> 00:12:07.657 So if you're building something out there, think about, you know, how you can build 00:12:07.657 --> 00:12:12.037 that like network that you plug into all these other things, because maybe one 00:12:12.037 --> 00:12:16.817 day when you do want to get acquired, you now have this like rich relationship 00:12:16.817 --> 00:12:22.167 with a bunch of companies that will be like, Hey, like half of our, half of our 00:12:22.167 --> 00:12:23.667 users are coming from your tutorials. 00:12:23.667 --> 00:12:25.007 Maybe we should just buy you. 00:12:28.157 --> 00:12:28.827 CJ: Interesting. 00:12:29.747 --> 00:12:33.117 Yeah, I have, I've been really impressed with how well Repl. 00:12:33.117 --> 00:12:41.117 it has been able to, like, go from kind of a toy browser thing where you 00:12:41.117 --> 00:12:46.987 can write a little bit of code and run it To like now they're pretty legit 00:12:46.987 --> 00:12:51.157 like hosting company that starts with browser, like a browser editor that 00:12:51.157 --> 00:12:52.767 is multiplayer and collaborative. 00:12:52.857 --> 00:12:56.357 And yeah, I, they've been doing a really, really good job. 00:12:56.357 --> 00:13:02.877 I think of just continuing to build insanely fast and releasing features 00:13:02.907 --> 00:13:04.887 and like really, really fast. 00:13:04.987 --> 00:13:10.017 Especially for like younger and newer junior devs, apparently like 00:13:10.367 --> 00:13:15.727 a lot of Audiences, folks who are graduating from like scratch and they 00:13:15.727 --> 00:13:18.037 want to run something and they don't want to set up their environment. 00:13:18.037 --> 00:13:21.157 And so they just throw it up on replit and off to the races. 00:13:21.797 --> 00:13:23.657 So yeah, interesting to hear that. 00:13:24.177 --> 00:13:26.777 Autocode is shutting down this party kit thing. 00:13:26.777 --> 00:13:32.157 I think I heard about this on a syntax FM episode, but I never 00:13:32.157 --> 00:13:33.127 went and played around with it. 00:13:33.127 --> 00:13:33.717 It looks really 00:13:33.937 --> 00:13:38.787 Colin: think I first found it as a way of adding a Stripe like customer 00:13:38.787 --> 00:13:44.947 satisfaction type thing to the bottom of every docs page where you could 00:13:44.987 --> 00:13:49.137 technically do it with like a key value stored anywhere, but you still need that. 00:13:49.137 --> 00:13:53.027 Like you click the thing and then it updates the counter and it would 00:13:53.027 --> 00:13:55.977 actually update across to everyone who was on the docs at the same time. 00:13:55.977 --> 00:13:59.357 And kind of like giving an Instagram post, like a heart. 00:13:59.987 --> 00:14:03.457 Right, you can add that interaction and the cool thing is if you're on the docks 00:14:03.457 --> 00:14:08.607 when someone likes it, you see the little animation pop up and just a little bit 00:14:08.607 --> 00:14:12.717 of surprise and delight, but also just like, if you're reading a thing and you're 00:14:12.717 --> 00:14:15.017 like, Oh, I'm getting a lot of value out of this and then you see all these 00:14:15.027 --> 00:14:18.707 hearts pop like popping up, you might also be inclined to click it as well. 00:14:21.477 --> 00:14:21.867 CJ: Yeah. 00:14:21.917 --> 00:14:26.147 This is all stuff too, that you can achieve with, 00:14:27.567 --> 00:14:28.057 uh, 00:14:29.117 --> 00:14:29.797 Colin: Tell us more. 00:14:29.927 --> 00:14:31.447 CJ: and rails. 00:14:31.477 --> 00:14:32.067 Yeah. 00:14:32.117 --> 00:14:35.707 Like we've been learning a ton about turbo. 00:14:36.332 --> 00:14:40.552 At craftwork and most of the team comes from a react background. 00:14:40.562 --> 00:14:44.772 And so they want to make the application like they have a lot 00:14:44.772 --> 00:14:48.152 of expectations around how the application can be built in a very 00:14:48.632 --> 00:14:51.132 front end, like single page appy way. 00:14:51.162 --> 00:14:54.402 And so there's features that we're adding that really. 00:14:54.802 --> 00:14:59.842 Would typically lend themselves more to a react based application. 00:15:00.352 --> 00:15:04.742 But we have made it really, really far with just hot wire and turbo 00:15:04.742 --> 00:15:06.112 streams and things like that. 00:15:06.112 --> 00:15:08.672 And so we have a lot of. 00:15:09.357 --> 00:15:14.727 A lot of pieces of the application now that will make a request as a turbo 00:15:14.727 --> 00:15:19.047 stream to the server, the turbo stream web components come back to the client, 00:15:19.057 --> 00:15:24.607 and then we'll update or replace or move certain things on the page instead of 00:15:24.607 --> 00:15:30.777 reloading the entire page and an example of that is as part of our messaging 00:15:30.777 --> 00:15:38.592 feature, if we receive a message from a customer, It will go and like live 00:15:38.832 --> 00:15:43.452 up, like live broadcast and update notification counters and things like 00:15:43.452 --> 00:15:46.362 that on anyone who's currently active. 00:15:46.882 --> 00:15:50.462 So yeah, like everything that you kind of like know and love from a 00:15:50.462 --> 00:15:53.492 Slack application or discord, right. 00:15:53.522 --> 00:15:57.142 Marking something as unread and telling you that it's unread through 00:15:57.332 --> 00:15:58.702 these turbo streams is pretty. 00:15:58.952 --> 00:15:59.562 Pretty sweet. 00:15:59.682 --> 00:16:01.442 Colin: Across multiple clients. 00:16:01.442 --> 00:16:04.912 If you're on, if you have a desktop app, does Kraftwerk have 00:16:04.912 --> 00:16:06.572 or plan to have a desktop type? 00:16:07.867 --> 00:16:08.087 Or 00:16:08.097 --> 00:16:08.292 sorry, 00:16:08.292 --> 00:16:09.012 CJ: We call it crap. 00:16:09.012 --> 00:16:09.142 We're 00:16:09.307 --> 00:16:10.737 Colin: or I guess mobile rather. 00:16:11.292 --> 00:16:14.452 CJ: yeah, we do have, so we have a react native app that is mobile, 00:16:14.462 --> 00:16:18.572 but we don't have any web sockets integrations yet with that. 00:16:18.582 --> 00:16:27.192 So it's, it's on our mind and we've got sort of the the cable. 00:16:27.532 --> 00:16:31.782 Action cable stuff working so we can broadcast Jason when things 00:16:31.782 --> 00:16:33.452 are updating and then use that. 00:16:34.382 --> 00:16:37.902 You can kind of like listen on any device for those broadcasts or any 00:16:37.902 --> 00:16:39.202 device that can run JavaScript. 00:16:39.242 --> 00:16:41.582 You can listen for those broadcasts on certain channels and then 00:16:42.192 --> 00:16:43.802 update the UI based on those. 00:16:43.812 --> 00:16:48.222 So yeah, we've got a few little hooks in place, but yeah, party 00:16:48.222 --> 00:16:49.862 kit maybe we need to build like. 00:16:50.167 --> 00:16:51.637 The turbo party kit. 00:16:52.087 --> 00:16:53.167 There's probably something like that. 00:16:53.167 --> 00:16:53.317 All right. 00:16:53.477 --> 00:16:53.717 I bet. 00:16:53.767 --> 00:16:57.607 Colin: I think the, the advantage of party kit for like a static site 00:16:57.617 --> 00:16:59.867 generated site is there was no backend. 00:16:59.967 --> 00:17:00.277 Right. 00:17:00.297 --> 00:17:02.377 And so party kit is the backend. 00:17:02.377 --> 00:17:04.687 You are building your backend. 00:17:04.837 --> 00:17:08.007 And so I think you already have what you need. 00:17:08.067 --> 00:17:11.917 There might be some patterns and some cool, like if you look at their examples, 00:17:12.357 --> 00:17:13.687 you can be like, how would we build this? 00:17:14.152 --> 00:17:18.142 In rails with turbo, and I think that would be the equivalent, but you know, 00:17:18.162 --> 00:17:21.572 with a lot of people doing thing and on all these like static deployed 00:17:21.572 --> 00:17:25.342 sites and cloudflare and all that, oftentimes you don't want to, you 00:17:25.342 --> 00:17:27.262 know, mind doing some of this stuff. 00:17:27.682 --> 00:17:32.122 I think they're more intense stuff was the YJS, the like, we're going to both edit 00:17:32.122 --> 00:17:36.452 the same sentence and there's going to be a merge and a diff and who's going to win. 00:17:36.462 --> 00:17:36.482 Yeah. 00:17:36.887 --> 00:17:39.057 Those kinds of things are painful to do. 00:17:39.057 --> 00:17:43.827 So sometimes it's nice to just let Yjs or PartyKit or the integration 00:17:43.827 --> 00:17:44.987 between both handle that. 00:17:45.737 --> 00:17:46.207 So, 00:17:47.292 --> 00:17:47.732 CJ: Got it. 00:17:47.802 --> 00:17:48.142 Okay. 00:17:48.142 --> 00:17:49.412 This makes a lot of sense. 00:17:49.737 --> 00:17:52.457 Colin: I could also be getting some of this wrong, but that's, that's 00:17:52.457 --> 00:17:54.287 my interpretation of PartyKit. 00:17:55.002 --> 00:17:55.492 CJ: okay. 00:17:56.472 --> 00:17:56.802 Yeah. 00:17:56.802 --> 00:17:59.262 It seems like you do have to have like for Yjs. 00:17:59.262 --> 00:18:01.012 It's expecting that you have some server. 00:18:01.512 --> 00:18:06.142 So maybe there's like a, a rails version where you implement the, 00:18:06.397 --> 00:18:07.977 Colin: and then you have a Yjs front end. 00:18:08.907 --> 00:18:10.977 You can build your own Google sheets, Google docs. 00:18:11.562 --> 00:18:16.312 CJ: Yes, which we've talked about, we've rebuilt so many things at craftwork. 00:18:16.362 --> 00:18:18.402 It's like, okay what, what's next? 00:18:18.432 --> 00:18:19.492 What are we going to do next? 00:18:19.572 --> 00:18:24.332 I think next is calendaring, which is funny because I know you've got 00:18:24.332 --> 00:18:25.692 some more updates about the calendar. 00:18:26.172 --> 00:18:30.332 One, one thing before we move on from party kit, I noticed that TL draw is 00:18:30.332 --> 00:18:34.662 one of their kind of like Late, like logos that they have is in terms of 00:18:34.662 --> 00:18:37.032 like, who's using party kit and TL draw. 00:18:37.072 --> 00:18:42.472 com is the site that had that really epic demo where you can put 00:18:42.472 --> 00:18:46.682 in your open AI key and then you can just tell it like generate a 00:18:46.682 --> 00:18:48.252 game that does blah, blah, blah. 00:18:48.252 --> 00:18:50.102 And then it'll just spit out a drawing. 00:18:50.602 --> 00:18:51.042 Colin: I see. 00:18:51.042 --> 00:18:54.682 Yeah, I'm assuming I can share this project and then I bet both of our 00:18:54.682 --> 00:18:56.282 cursors would show up on TLDraw. 00:18:56.292 --> 00:19:00.942 So, you know, most apps, we kind of expect that these days. 00:19:00.952 --> 00:19:04.782 Figma is, I don't know if Figma is the one that really moved the needle on that, but 00:19:04.782 --> 00:19:06.522 it's the one that comes to mind the most. 00:19:07.522 --> 00:19:12.312 In terms of like everyone should just be able to join and see things party kit 00:19:12.322 --> 00:19:15.352 has a cool little demo that's just called cursor party And that's the thing that 00:19:15.352 --> 00:19:19.392 powers all the cursors on your screen I'm working on bringing that into discord 00:19:19.392 --> 00:19:23.422 just as an example app But it's unclear like what's going to happen with party 00:19:23.422 --> 00:19:29.512 kit as part of the acquisition So i'm waiting to see where that lands first So, 00:19:29.997 --> 00:19:30.397 CJ: Got it. 00:19:30.657 --> 00:19:31.157 Got it. 00:19:31.777 --> 00:19:32.337 Very cool. 00:19:32.947 --> 00:19:33.177 Let's 00:19:33.192 --> 00:19:34.552 Colin: What are you doing with calendars 00:19:35.927 --> 00:19:38.667 CJ: yeah, so we're, we're just now starting to figure out like 00:19:39.017 --> 00:19:44.097 how to algorithmically schedule crews and painters onto projects. 00:19:44.477 --> 00:19:48.817 So as the crew continues to grow, like, I don't know, I can't remember 00:19:49.357 --> 00:19:50.812 how big, but let's just say. 00:19:51.462 --> 00:19:56.732 Once we get to 50 plus painters it becomes really challenging for a single person 00:19:56.732 --> 00:20:02.022 to keep in their head, like who's out sick, who's on PTO, who can hang drywall, 00:20:02.022 --> 00:20:05.802 who can, you know, who, who knows how to work the pressure washer, who knows how 00:20:05.802 --> 00:20:08.542 to handle asbestos, et cetera, et cetera. 00:20:08.572 --> 00:20:09.082 And then. 00:20:10.512 --> 00:20:12.732 matching that up with projects. 00:20:13.092 --> 00:20:16.222 So like maybe there's a project we want to send the A team and we 00:20:16.222 --> 00:20:20.262 want to make sure that they have like an epic experience with a very 00:20:20.262 --> 00:20:22.562 specific crew or painter or whatever. 00:20:23.562 --> 00:20:28.282 So we're trying to build out like these different features that you can 00:20:28.282 --> 00:20:35.842 attach to a like a painter or in, Even down to like leveling them, marking 00:20:35.842 --> 00:20:42.222 up their skills, having a bio avatars, like a bunch of statistics about them. 00:20:42.242 --> 00:20:46.952 And then on the other side, like, how do we figure out based on what 00:20:46.952 --> 00:20:50.112 we know about a project, what are going to be the skills that are 00:20:50.112 --> 00:20:51.802 required to execute on this project? 00:20:51.802 --> 00:20:54.442 Like from the estimate, can we tell. 00:20:54.612 --> 00:20:58.552 This is going to need a pressure washer, or this is going to need to have one 00:20:58.722 --> 00:21:03.342 of those tools that like vacuum cleans the popcorn ceilings off or something. 00:21:03.392 --> 00:21:08.982 And then based on that, try to algorithmically people to places. 00:21:10.132 --> 00:21:12.402 So gnarly calendar problem. 00:21:12.662 --> 00:21:15.012 But we'll see, it should be fun. 00:21:15.752 --> 00:21:16.262 Colin: Nice. 00:21:16.332 --> 00:21:18.802 CJ: What's going on with yeah, what's going on with the conference room 00:21:18.802 --> 00:21:20.572 booking stuff at the collective. 00:21:20.862 --> 00:21:25.612 Colin: So I played around with trying to build some of this with open AI and just 00:21:25.612 --> 00:21:26.982 sitting down and just banging it out. 00:21:26.992 --> 00:21:29.032 And it's just, it's doable. 00:21:29.072 --> 00:21:31.152 The surface area is just immense. 00:21:31.692 --> 00:21:33.362 Like all the edge cases. 00:21:33.362 --> 00:21:35.772 And I don't want to solve for all of them because it's just for us. 00:21:36.432 --> 00:21:39.422 But then I have been tinkering, as I mentioned, like, do I build this 00:21:39.432 --> 00:21:42.452 so that I can just, like, put it out there as a SaaS type thing that's 00:21:42.522 --> 00:21:47.592 just, add your rooms, add your iPads to each room, and it goes, and there's 00:21:47.592 --> 00:21:51.662 no, it's not co working specific, you could use it in a yoga studio, a gym. 00:21:52.567 --> 00:21:56.207 I still, I think, want to do that because there's just like so many fun things in 00:21:56.207 --> 00:22:01.437 there, like, and like getting my hands on, like, it would mostly run itself, I think. 00:22:01.787 --> 00:22:05.777 I could drop the link in some co working groups that I'm in that they're always 00:22:05.777 --> 00:22:07.577 fighting over what software they use. 00:22:07.867 --> 00:22:10.217 There's enough gyms and yoga studios that I think would pick it 00:22:10.217 --> 00:22:15.352 up organically, but Four days from now is when ours stops working. 00:22:15.552 --> 00:22:21.212 So it's like, I have a lot of things going on and part of me is just wondering 00:22:21.212 --> 00:22:25.082 if we just pull the trigger on paying for it for another year, use it. 00:22:25.592 --> 00:22:29.292 I just checked it ends up being about 125 a month. 00:22:29.322 --> 00:22:32.232 And that's where it's like, it's, it's worth that obviously. 00:22:32.562 --> 00:22:37.582 So we'll probably just do that and it'll give us another year. 00:22:38.172 --> 00:22:42.492 And I need to not wait until 11 months from now to revisit it. 00:22:43.642 --> 00:22:46.282 Which I don't think I will, because I have a pretty good start of it. 00:22:46.392 --> 00:22:49.232 And it would just be like, it's a React native app that runs a 00:22:49.232 --> 00:22:51.812 React, checks the Google APIs. 00:22:51.812 --> 00:22:55.772 And this is an example of, we would only support the Google API. 00:22:55.832 --> 00:22:58.582 Like I'm not doing this for Microsoft calendars and 00:22:59.527 --> 00:22:59.807 CJ: hmm. 00:23:00.102 --> 00:23:00.962 Colin: else is out there. 00:23:00.982 --> 00:23:03.572 No, I don't even know what people are using anymore. 00:23:03.612 --> 00:23:05.762 But Yeah, so I think that's where we're at. 00:23:05.762 --> 00:23:09.922 We'll probably just pull the trigger on it, get it, get it set up again. 00:23:09.932 --> 00:23:12.282 I mean, it's still set up, so we'll just keep everything working 00:23:12.282 --> 00:23:13.552 and then we can add people to it. 00:23:13.552 --> 00:23:16.522 And yeah, they're, like I mentioned in our previous episode, they're really 00:23:16.522 --> 00:23:21.052 pushing this upsell of like having people book desks before they come in. 00:23:21.062 --> 00:23:25.462 And so it's really designed for this hybrid work environment type 00:23:25.462 --> 00:23:27.072 thing, which we're really not. 00:23:28.287 --> 00:23:31.507 So like the first screen you log into on the mobile app is 00:23:31.527 --> 00:23:32.747 book your desk for the day. 00:23:33.167 --> 00:23:35.747 We have to teach everybody, like go down here to the calendar, 00:23:35.977 --> 00:23:38.767 like the conference room page, and then book your room and all that. 00:23:39.347 --> 00:23:40.687 So we'll just do that. 00:23:40.767 --> 00:23:44.557 I think that decision made commit to it. 00:23:44.677 --> 00:23:46.527 And yeah, we'll see how it goes from there. 00:23:46.587 --> 00:23:50.767 We'll see if that whole like cow wind idea from last episode becomes the thing and 00:23:51.627 --> 00:23:52.287 bake it in there. 00:23:53.982 --> 00:23:54.352 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:54.742 --> 00:23:58.442 Are there pretty good support for calendaring? 00:23:58.787 --> 00:24:01.387 UI packages for react native on iPad. 00:24:02.317 --> 00:24:05.297 Colin: So I was just looking at turning all the calendars that 00:24:05.297 --> 00:24:11.707 Tailwind UI has into actual, like, they're beautiful, but they're static. 00:24:12.077 --> 00:24:15.907 And so you need to go in and create all the hooks for moving 00:24:15.917 --> 00:24:17.387 events around on the screen. 00:24:18.047 --> 00:24:22.877 For mobile, it would be more of a different UI of like, just tell us what 00:24:22.877 --> 00:24:24.687 day, we'll show you what's available. 00:24:24.697 --> 00:24:28.187 So it will be a little bit different on phones, but I think most people 00:24:28.187 --> 00:24:29.797 would book through the website. 00:24:31.052 --> 00:24:35.242 Maybe we make like a slack thing that lets you just like slash book. 00:24:35.262 --> 00:24:40.872 And we just launch us, launch a temporary screen that you use. 00:24:40.872 --> 00:24:44.352 And then it knows who you are based on your slack and all of that. 00:24:44.422 --> 00:24:44.662 But. 00:24:47.937 --> 00:24:48.407 CJ: Cool. 00:24:48.757 --> 00:24:49.617 That'd be awesome. 00:24:49.837 --> 00:24:56.727 And I, yeah, there's, there's been a few things where recently we're moving 00:24:56.727 --> 00:25:00.817 off of services and that just creates a lot of pressure to get something 00:25:00.967 --> 00:25:02.847 completed and shipped and out the door. 00:25:03.427 --> 00:25:04.507 We're shutting down. 00:25:04.967 --> 00:25:07.397 One of our communication channels. 00:25:07.927 --> 00:25:13.707 And so that was like, we have to have like our new communication channel 00:25:13.717 --> 00:25:18.337 set up and running and like tested and everyone moved over by X day. 00:25:18.907 --> 00:25:21.267 And it was a good forcing function. 00:25:21.307 --> 00:25:23.907 It's like, okay, like we've got to hurry up and like, make 00:25:23.907 --> 00:25:25.797 sure this is live and working. 00:25:25.907 --> 00:25:26.247 Colin: It makes 00:25:26.247 --> 00:25:26.987 sense when it's your 00:25:27.027 --> 00:25:27.747 CJ: can be stressful. 00:25:27.907 --> 00:25:30.957 Colin: but for the co working space It's like this needs to not 00:25:30.957 --> 00:25:33.427 take up more of my mental space 00:25:33.987 --> 00:25:35.307 CJ: Yes, absolutely. 00:25:35.427 --> 00:25:35.707 Yep. 00:25:35.747 --> 00:25:35.997 Yep. 00:25:36.007 --> 00:25:36.277 Yep. 00:25:36.357 --> 00:25:36.637 A hundred 00:25:36.717 --> 00:25:39.907 Colin: Which leads into just more of a recommendation and we can talk about 00:25:39.907 --> 00:25:44.272 this more in depth in the future But I was listening to a podcast where 00:25:44.492 --> 00:25:49.772 Where the guest was Cal Newport of like deep work and digital minimalism. 00:25:50.342 --> 00:25:53.242 And they have a new book out called slow productivity. 00:25:53.302 --> 00:25:58.072 And this is for anyone who feels like there's just a lot going on right now. 00:25:58.072 --> 00:26:03.632 Like if you feel like your day is dictated by Swiss cheese of meetings, 00:26:03.682 --> 00:26:09.627 pings, slacks and discords and text messages and social media a lot of 00:26:09.627 --> 00:26:13.697 really refreshing takes and we'll, we'll put a link to the podcast because it's 00:26:13.697 --> 00:26:15.847 like a really fast introduction to it. 00:26:16.347 --> 00:26:17.457 And more of an interview style. 00:26:17.457 --> 00:26:21.977 And then if you're on Spotify premium, it's free as an audio book there. 00:26:21.977 --> 00:26:24.997 I've, I've started listening to more books there and getting 00:26:24.997 --> 00:26:26.657 rid of my audible subscription. 00:26:27.947 --> 00:26:29.767 The subscription fatigue continues. 00:26:30.532 --> 00:26:34.272 But trying to consolidate that and the big, the kind of the overarching 00:26:34.272 --> 00:26:37.442 theme is they actually are rooted most of their stories and talking. 00:26:37.492 --> 00:26:41.562 They're not talking to, but referring to the stories of, of people who 00:26:41.572 --> 00:26:44.442 have made these huge accomplishments in their life, like Marie Curie 00:26:44.842 --> 00:26:47.192 Jane Austen, Benjamin Franklin. 00:26:47.202 --> 00:26:48.832 And it's like a lot of stuff's out there. 00:26:48.832 --> 00:26:50.952 Like you should have the same schedule as Ben Franklin. 00:26:50.952 --> 00:26:52.842 And it's just like uber productive schedule. 00:26:53.262 --> 00:26:57.782 His is this, alternate take where if you zoomed in on any one day of their lives, 00:26:58.052 --> 00:26:59.722 you might catch them just at a park. 00:27:00.072 --> 00:27:04.072 The next day, they're just on a walk and they're thinking about and 00:27:04.092 --> 00:27:08.472 observing and focusing on like this problem that they've focused on for 00:27:08.472 --> 00:27:13.182 years in their head, but they're taking vacations and they're living life. 00:27:13.757 --> 00:27:16.737 And then there's this intense season where they publish, right? 00:27:16.737 --> 00:27:18.437 Or they create this thing. 00:27:18.447 --> 00:27:21.537 So like day to day, there's not this hundred percent hustle 00:27:21.567 --> 00:27:22.877 culture and productivity. 00:27:23.307 --> 00:27:27.197 In fact, you have to take those breaks to let things just run 00:27:27.197 --> 00:27:28.267 in that background thread. 00:27:28.867 --> 00:27:30.127 So really refreshing. 00:27:30.177 --> 00:27:35.067 There's a lot of tactical things of like you work for a company and you might 00:27:35.067 --> 00:27:39.847 not be able to take off Fridays, but here's how you can kind of simulate like, 00:27:40.177 --> 00:27:42.297 like blocking, tackling your schedule. 00:27:42.637 --> 00:27:47.677 If you can't use like the base camp cycles thing of six weeks on and two 00:27:47.677 --> 00:27:51.757 weeks off, he's like, you could probably work hard for six weeks and then coast 00:27:51.757 --> 00:27:55.017 for two weeks and people will remember you for the six weeks and not the two 00:27:55.017 --> 00:27:56.927 weeks where you were slacking off. 00:27:56.927 --> 00:27:59.647 So a lot of really good tactical things if you're looking for 00:27:59.647 --> 00:28:01.007 like, okay, that sounds great. 00:28:01.007 --> 00:28:02.087 How do I do this? 00:28:02.087 --> 00:28:03.697 How do I take time off? 00:28:04.097 --> 00:28:07.607 So it hit me right where I, when I needed to hear it. 00:28:07.627 --> 00:28:10.287 So I was like, okay, let's go binge this. 00:28:11.562 --> 00:28:13.322 CJ: Yeah, I know you shared it. 00:28:13.322 --> 00:28:16.042 I haven't listened to it yet, but I, I really want to get into it. 00:28:16.042 --> 00:28:18.322 Cause it also is like perfect timing for me. 00:28:18.772 --> 00:28:25.192 I was just telling Mike this week that like, I owe everyone something 00:28:25.192 --> 00:28:29.262 right now, like, you know, I, I've like promised things to everyone 00:28:29.802 --> 00:28:31.442 and it's a tough spot to be in. 00:28:31.752 --> 00:28:35.632 So thankfully he jumped in and helped a lot. 00:28:35.702 --> 00:28:37.012 Colin: That's a big part of it, right? 00:28:37.102 --> 00:28:40.972 Sometimes we, we, we care a little too much and put it on ourselves. 00:28:40.972 --> 00:28:44.672 And so yeah, let's both finish, let's listen to that podcast 00:28:44.672 --> 00:28:47.202 at least, and we can chat about it more in depth in the future. 00:28:47.202 --> 00:28:50.802 And honestly, I would not be surprised if we could get Cal 00:28:50.802 --> 00:28:52.302 Newport to come talk to us too. 00:28:52.372 --> 00:28:52.602 So 00:28:53.167 --> 00:28:53.687 CJ: Yeah. 00:28:53.837 --> 00:28:54.267 Be great. 00:28:54.422 --> 00:28:56.755 Colin: he's doing the book tour right now. 00:28:56.755 --> 00:28:57.718 So 00:28:57.912 --> 00:28:58.152 CJ: Yeah. 00:28:58.152 --> 00:28:59.292 Deep work was huge. 00:28:59.352 --> 00:28:59.792 So 00:29:00.232 --> 00:29:01.572 Colin: you're struggling with it, definitely check it, 00:29:01.572 --> 00:29:01.772 out. 00:29:01.772 --> 00:29:04.572 I think the other thing you want to talk about, make it all. 00:29:05.942 --> 00:29:06.382 CJ: Sure. 00:29:06.412 --> 00:29:10.132 I mean, this is, this goes back to the integration stuff a little bit, like make. 00:29:10.342 --> 00:29:11.962 com similar to Zapier. 00:29:12.242 --> 00:29:13.902 It's just like another version. 00:29:14.302 --> 00:29:18.072 I was working with a client who reached out for some. 00:29:18.492 --> 00:29:20.982 Questions about a Stripe integration they were building. 00:29:21.022 --> 00:29:25.702 And they built like this really sophisticated Stripe connect flow 00:29:26.922 --> 00:29:34.802 in make like entirely with like no code click and set up HTTP calls 00:29:34.802 --> 00:29:40.632 and built like this giant series of like 20 API calls to onboard like 00:29:40.632 --> 00:29:43.032 an indie person onto their platform. 00:29:43.092 --> 00:29:47.652 And so I was inspired to use it for some nurture campaigns that we're going to do. 00:29:48.182 --> 00:29:54.232 And We've been looking at it with the team just to set up like some simple triggers 00:29:54.272 --> 00:29:58.952 based on events that happen inside of the Kraftwerk backend, basically. 00:29:59.122 --> 00:30:03.322 And then some simple end points where you can fetch information about 00:30:03.452 --> 00:30:07.462 customers to know whether or not you should we should message them. 00:30:07.687 --> 00:30:12.977 And then you can build like some surprisingly sophisticated workflows 00:30:13.037 --> 00:30:17.597 directly and make one thing that I've like, that I like about Zapier that 00:30:17.597 --> 00:30:20.257 I haven't been able to figure out and make I'm sure it's possible is that 00:30:20.657 --> 00:30:25.737 is using timers, like, okay, you get this trigger, wait a day, check to 00:30:25.737 --> 00:30:30.797 see if you can send them a message, if so, send the message, and then start 00:30:30.827 --> 00:30:32.797 another timer that lasts however long. 00:30:33.247 --> 00:30:36.447 And it's kind of a pattern that I've noticed. 00:30:37.712 --> 00:30:39.432 At lots of different companies that I've worked at. 00:30:39.432 --> 00:30:41.472 And maybe this is like a potential startup somewhere. 00:30:42.262 --> 00:30:43.442 Someone can take the idea. 00:30:43.962 --> 00:30:50.932 The problem is there is some event that's happening or some major thing 00:30:50.932 --> 00:30:53.352 that's happening and you want to trigger. 00:30:53.892 --> 00:30:58.702 Automations that are time based that surround that event. 00:30:59.122 --> 00:31:02.082 So in our case, we're going to have a paint project. 00:31:02.362 --> 00:31:06.702 And two days before the project happens, we want to send an email. 00:31:06.732 --> 00:31:10.372 That's like, Hey, we're coming in two days, one hour before the start time 00:31:10.372 --> 00:31:13.012 on the first day, we want to send a, Hey, here's the crew that's coming. 00:31:13.022 --> 00:31:15.112 Here's a picture of the crew, whatever. 00:31:15.767 --> 00:31:19.067 During the event, every single day, we want to send like these daily updates. 00:31:19.217 --> 00:31:23.327 After the event, we want to send a request for reviews, very similar 00:31:23.327 --> 00:31:28.017 to in vacation rentals, where you have a booking that's coming up 00:31:28.017 --> 00:31:29.257 and you want to message the guest. 00:31:29.687 --> 00:31:32.527 And you'll say like, Hey guest, here's the wifi password. 00:31:32.527 --> 00:31:34.497 And here's the like lock code. 00:31:34.957 --> 00:31:37.557 And then after they check in, you want to say, Hey, how's it going? 00:31:37.557 --> 00:31:38.417 Do you need anything? 00:31:38.847 --> 00:31:41.937 And after they check out similarly, you want to say, Hey, can you send a. 00:31:42.217 --> 00:31:45.817 Send us a review or like, you know any feedback about your stay. 00:31:46.267 --> 00:31:48.037 So these like I don't know. 00:31:48.037 --> 00:31:51.337 I feel like there's, there's a platform probably where you can build 00:31:52.017 --> 00:31:56.367 just a series of events that happen around a start date and end date. 00:31:56.457 --> 00:32:00.117 And those can act as like a template that will fire off triggers that 00:32:00.117 --> 00:32:01.827 happen at all those different points. 00:32:02.467 --> 00:32:05.617 Colin: Because the edge cases are what happens if we move it out a day. 00:32:05.617 --> 00:32:08.407 If we cancel, we don't want the other things to happen. 00:32:08.417 --> 00:32:13.087 Like if it's downstream, if someone isn't going to be home to let in the 00:32:13.087 --> 00:32:16.937 crew, so it needs to shift by hours, but then it can't be on a weekend. 00:32:16.937 --> 00:32:20.907 Like there's so many little things where it's like, actually, if my house 00:32:20.907 --> 00:32:24.177 is being painted on Friday and Monday, I probably do want the Saturday email. 00:32:24.577 --> 00:32:28.882 But if the job ends on Friday, Maybe all the emails go out on 00:32:28.882 --> 00:32:30.732 Friday or maybe it's still Saturday. 00:32:30.732 --> 00:32:36.002 And I see this with e commerce, less like subscriptions to like, I, I do 00:32:36.002 --> 00:32:38.842 a subscription box for food delivery. 00:32:38.842 --> 00:32:43.062 And like, I have to pick my meals on a certain day and sometimes I'm not going 00:32:43.062 --> 00:32:45.022 to be here on a Tuesday, so I have to. 00:32:45.262 --> 00:32:46.842 change it to a different day. 00:32:47.472 --> 00:32:50.612 And I can only imagine, I mean, that one's a little bit simpler cause we're not 00:32:50.622 --> 00:32:53.962 trying to coordinate people's, like you were mentioning all those calendars too. 00:32:53.972 --> 00:32:58.882 Like now do we even have the crew available to do those things? 00:32:59.512 --> 00:32:59.842 Yeah. 00:32:59.872 --> 00:33:01.832 I wonder if there is a service out there for that. 00:33:02.442 --> 00:33:06.112 Immediately I start thinking about, cause I think sidekick has this 00:33:06.112 --> 00:33:11.472 concept of like groups of tasks and so you could cancel the entire group. 00:33:11.992 --> 00:33:15.562 And you can schedule them too, but then you got to make sure 00:33:15.562 --> 00:33:16.912 you get your time zones, right? 00:33:17.382 --> 00:33:19.872 There's so many things that can go wrong and if you did everything 00:33:19.872 --> 00:33:23.552 relatively then it kind of works But time zones will still be there 00:33:25.347 --> 00:33:31.257 CJ: Yeah, we are using sidekicks like scheduling for some stuff, like 00:33:31.257 --> 00:33:32.697 you can send a scheduled message. 00:33:33.237 --> 00:33:38.487 And we're using it for like debouncing a couple of things and I don't know, we've 00:33:38.487 --> 00:33:42.737 got like a couple of features in there, but yeah, maybe we should look into that. 00:33:43.317 --> 00:33:46.457 I like that idea of like, okay, as soon as a project is scheduled and 00:33:46.457 --> 00:33:50.617 locked in, then we just like schedule a template that has like series of. 00:33:51.322 --> 00:33:52.142 Jobs. 00:33:52.452 --> 00:33:57.322 And at any point you can just like cancel the whole group and then, or 00:33:57.322 --> 00:33:59.982 like update the entire group, basically just like delete them all and then 00:33:59.992 --> 00:34:01.522 generate them again or something. 00:34:01.712 --> 00:34:02.052 Colin: Yeah. 00:34:02.442 --> 00:34:03.582 CJ: yeah, that's a good idea. 00:34:03.642 --> 00:34:09.752 We built it basically from scratch using DJ celery, like the Django Cron job tool 00:34:09.872 --> 00:34:13.182 and a bunch of database calls at my VR. 00:34:13.192 --> 00:34:13.472 But 00:34:13.902 --> 00:34:14.482 Colin: that's more of 00:34:14.482 --> 00:34:14.672 like 00:34:14.672 --> 00:34:16.442 a polling and should I send something? 00:34:16.442 --> 00:34:17.352 Should I send something? 00:34:17.852 --> 00:34:22.772 I really like the evented way of doing this, but then there's a lot that 00:34:22.772 --> 00:34:23.702 could go wrong too. 00:34:23.712 --> 00:34:27.992 So you almost have to event and then verify that this should still 00:34:27.992 --> 00:34:30.422 be sent before you send anything. 00:34:30.662 --> 00:34:32.002 Like, am I still valid? 00:34:33.692 --> 00:34:38.372 CJ: Yeah, the way that we built it there was like, we built the polling, like the, 00:34:38.492 --> 00:34:40.672 we built the event, the eventing on top 00:34:40.682 --> 00:34:41.262 Colin: Mm hmm. 00:34:41.712 --> 00:34:44.532 CJ: So like we had a job that ran like every minute 00:34:44.542 --> 00:34:45.322 Colin: Event emitter. 00:34:45.442 --> 00:34:45.752 Yeah. 00:34:45.792 --> 00:34:46.212 CJ: would check. 00:34:46.642 --> 00:34:47.442 Yeah, exactly. 00:34:47.452 --> 00:34:50.792 It would check the database, like, and then based on the statuses of 00:34:50.792 --> 00:34:55.072 different things and the timelines of things, it would just fire events. 00:34:55.532 --> 00:34:55.832 Yep. 00:34:55.902 --> 00:34:57.352 And then those events were. 00:34:57.892 --> 00:35:01.632 Then everywhere else in the entire application, you can build it as like, 00:35:01.672 --> 00:35:06.682 just like a subscriber or consumer of all the events and say like, Oh, you know, 00:35:06.722 --> 00:35:11.442 this happened, let me go fire off these emails or Slack messages or whatever 00:35:11.807 --> 00:35:12.267 Colin: Nice. 00:35:13.022 --> 00:35:13.502 CJ: later on. 00:35:13.682 --> 00:35:14.012 Yeah. 00:35:14.487 --> 00:35:14.757 Colin: Yeah. 00:35:14.757 --> 00:35:16.777 These are the things they don't teach in bootcamps. 00:35:17.982 --> 00:35:18.352 CJ: Yes. 00:35:19.177 --> 00:35:23.107 Colin: These are the things that only experience can can do. 00:35:23.107 --> 00:35:27.847 But I think these are like kind of fun questions for like more 00:35:27.847 --> 00:35:29.267 real world interview questions. 00:35:29.267 --> 00:35:32.947 I would think like, Hey, you need to send an email when a job is done. 00:35:32.947 --> 00:35:34.497 Like, what are the ways you could do it? 00:35:34.537 --> 00:35:35.617 What are the trade offs? 00:35:36.177 --> 00:35:36.747 I like that. 00:35:39.962 --> 00:35:40.262 CJ: Yep. 00:35:40.332 --> 00:35:41.092 And then what happens? 00:35:41.092 --> 00:35:41.312 Yeah. 00:35:41.332 --> 00:35:43.092 What happens when it moves and yeah. 00:35:43.627 --> 00:35:44.507 Colin: I think that's much better 00:35:44.507 --> 00:35:45.117 than like, 00:35:45.237 --> 00:35:48.367 you know, reverse this binary tree that you'll never do in this job ever. 00:35:49.662 --> 00:35:50.132 CJ: right. 00:35:50.332 --> 00:35:50.732 Yeah. 00:35:50.812 --> 00:35:51.132 Yeah. 00:35:51.977 --> 00:35:54.977 Colin: Proof to me that you've written, that you've written all the leak 00:35:54.977 --> 00:35:56.637 code problems and all that stuff. 00:35:57.912 --> 00:35:58.162 CJ: Yeah. 00:35:58.802 --> 00:36:01.632 Speaking of leak code, you're learning game engines. 00:36:01.652 --> 00:36:02.232 What's going on with 00:36:02.337 --> 00:36:02.747 Colin: Yeah. 00:36:02.747 --> 00:36:06.067 So for work, I'm trying to figure out, we have a good sense of which 00:36:06.077 --> 00:36:07.727 game engines are most popular. 00:36:08.072 --> 00:36:11.612 With game developers, but then you always have those, again, the long tail 00:36:11.612 --> 00:36:13.762 of game and, you know, just like APIs. 00:36:14.732 --> 00:36:18.922 And so I'm trying to decide how we're gonna do integration, 00:36:18.932 --> 00:36:21.372 like, tutorials, mostly. 00:36:21.432 --> 00:36:26.142 We're not, do we create like a starter for Unity, a starter for PlayCanvas? 00:36:26.152 --> 00:36:28.352 There's a lot of these HTML5 ones. 00:36:29.077 --> 00:36:31.437 Play canvas kaboom, things like that. 00:36:31.437 --> 00:36:35.057 So just looking to kind of make it easier for people to get started. 00:36:35.087 --> 00:36:39.147 We released the docs at GDC and then it's been fun to watch in discord. 00:36:39.147 --> 00:36:42.647 Like a lot of people just figuring it out and figuring out what they can do. 00:36:42.647 --> 00:36:46.067 And I'm going to be taking all of that and compiling it into the next 00:36:46.067 --> 00:36:49.887 series of tutorials of like, yeah, we forgot to tell you how to do this, 00:36:49.887 --> 00:36:51.077 even though it's just right there. 00:36:51.097 --> 00:36:53.007 Like it's in, it's in the SDK. 00:36:53.327 --> 00:36:56.217 People have figured it out, but we could do a tutorial around it. 00:36:56.217 --> 00:36:56.437 Yeah. 00:36:56.707 --> 00:36:58.967 I'm excited to do a bunch of video content around it. 00:36:59.337 --> 00:37:04.457 So part of that is learning Unity because Unity requires not only our 00:37:04.457 --> 00:37:09.517 SDK, but you also have to drop something into Unity to talk back and forth and 00:37:09.537 --> 00:37:14.457 almost actually event, you have to omit the events from discord into Unity, 00:37:14.467 --> 00:37:18.147 into your game and then catch them and then respond to them and vice versa. 00:37:18.177 --> 00:37:20.957 So we don't currently give you that. 00:37:21.067 --> 00:37:25.907 And I'm trying to think through like, what do we do in our Unity games that we can. 00:37:26.312 --> 00:37:27.532 Kind of open source. 00:37:27.982 --> 00:37:30.872 And then we want to talk, like, we're going to talk to unity too 00:37:30.872 --> 00:37:32.842 and say, Hey, dev rel over unity. 00:37:32.842 --> 00:37:36.962 Like, what do we want to do together so that they can maintain the unity piece? 00:37:36.962 --> 00:37:38.312 We can maintain the discord piece. 00:37:38.322 --> 00:37:42.092 So I don't have to become, again, it's this exact same problem with the API. 00:37:42.092 --> 00:37:45.032 It's like, we cannot be experts in all of these all the time. 00:37:46.767 --> 00:37:50.577 Maybe this is where some of our partners like we have some of our partner 00:37:50.717 --> 00:37:56.687 activities are built in play canvas Cocos there's there's there's a lot out 00:37:56.687 --> 00:38:01.657 there good dough It was cool at GDC to like go and see what people are using 00:38:01.657 --> 00:38:05.467 for all these different things, too But yeah, mostly just having fun with it. 00:38:05.477 --> 00:38:10.627 My first unity game is a cube that spins in 3d space That's it's all it does 00:38:10.667 --> 00:38:15.327 but it's a it's a start I think the goal is to like every person who joins 00:38:15.702 --> 00:38:18.822 Should get their own cube and we'll just see if we can get that to run. 00:38:19.262 --> 00:38:23.932 And then you run into the party kit problem of, now CJ's cube moves, how do 00:38:23.932 --> 00:38:27.132 we tell the other cubes that CJ has moved? 00:38:27.232 --> 00:38:27.412 CJ: Mm Hmm. 00:38:29.292 --> 00:38:32.072 Colin: turns out all these problems are the same at the end of the day. 00:38:33.182 --> 00:38:33.512 CJ: Yep. 00:38:33.802 --> 00:38:34.222 Yep. 00:38:34.912 --> 00:38:35.262 Yeah. 00:38:35.282 --> 00:38:36.332 We're putting boxes. 00:38:36.762 --> 00:38:39.752 Usually we're putting boxes on the page, but you put a cube on 00:38:39.772 --> 00:38:41.352 Colin: true, 3D boxes. 00:38:41.472 --> 00:38:42.482 CJ: this is the future. 00:38:42.667 --> 00:38:45.057 Colin: cameras, I mean that is the biggest difference, right? 00:38:45.057 --> 00:38:47.757 It's like you're like rendering cameras and then moving the camera 00:38:47.757 --> 00:38:52.477 versus moving the cube yeah, it's it's fun at the end of the day. 00:38:52.597 --> 00:38:53.927 We're getting to make some games. 00:38:53.927 --> 00:38:55.187 So I think that's gonna be fun 00:38:56.922 --> 00:39:00.962 CJ: What a cool opportunity to, to just learn lots of different game engines. 00:39:00.962 --> 00:39:04.912 Like I, I assume you'll come away with just like if nothing else, like a hello 00:39:04.972 --> 00:39:08.232 world level understanding of all the different game engines and like how to, 00:39:08.422 --> 00:39:12.302 you know, from supporting people and answering questions and building tutorials 00:39:12.302 --> 00:39:14.242 and demos, like what a cool opportunity. 00:39:14.302 --> 00:39:18.612 Colin: I won't steal Shae's thunder, but she's working on a really cool series 00:39:18.642 --> 00:39:23.812 as she's the other dev rel at discord Around gaming so that's all I'll say for 00:39:23.812 --> 00:39:29.912 now, but for the actual Like tutorials, I'm trying to decide like it feels 00:39:29.912 --> 00:39:31.602 like it falls under my job description. 00:39:31.622 --> 00:39:35.777 So I'm trying to figure out like Does it make sense for me as DevRel at 00:39:35.777 --> 00:39:39.937 Discord to be releasing like a little tutorial or video on each of these? 00:39:40.437 --> 00:39:45.397 Or do I go maybe stream on my own and, you know, in my own time and 00:39:45.397 --> 00:39:49.257 do the Colin learns all the game engines, you know, late night 00:39:49.257 --> 00:39:51.517 edition and do it off, off work time. 00:39:51.517 --> 00:39:55.307 So, yeah, maybe a little bit of both. 00:39:55.337 --> 00:39:55.727 We'll see. 00:39:56.647 --> 00:39:57.007 CJ: Yep. 00:39:58.747 --> 00:40:01.507 Opportunity to strike a balance and and also, like, network 00:40:01.507 --> 00:40:03.187 and connect with other teams. 00:40:03.257 --> 00:40:03.927 That'll be cool. 00:40:04.157 --> 00:40:04.407 Colin: Yeah. 00:40:04.407 --> 00:40:07.607 This is the how do you avoid burnout when you're chronically online? 00:40:09.397 --> 00:40:09.727 CJ: yeah. 00:40:09.967 --> 00:40:10.227 Yeah. 00:40:10.367 --> 00:40:11.107 Exactly. 00:40:11.387 --> 00:40:11.727 Colin: cool. 00:40:12.067 --> 00:40:12.477 Awesome. 00:40:13.629 --> 00:40:14.369 CJ: Good episode. 00:40:14.509 --> 00:40:15.399 Let's wrap it there. 00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:16.699 Colin: Sounds good. 00:40:16.759 --> 00:40:18.969 Where can people find notes for the show? 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:20.339 CJ: yeah. 00:40:20.349 --> 00:40:22.149 Head on over to buildandlearn. 00:40:22.149 --> 00:40:24.839 dev to check out the links and resources that we mentioned. 00:40:25.524 --> 00:40:30.814 And yeah, if you're feeling generous, why don't you head over to your podcast player 00:40:30.844 --> 00:40:33.274 of choice and drop in a five star review. 00:40:33.654 --> 00:40:36.634 And if you leave a review, let us know let us know how we're doing. 00:40:36.984 --> 00:40:38.064 Give us some feedback. 00:40:38.124 --> 00:40:39.114 We'd love to hear from you. 00:40:39.674 --> 00:40:45.834 And yeah, we are just over 40 episodes now, so we have been pretty consistent. 00:40:46.284 --> 00:40:46.874 It feels good. 00:40:47.299 --> 00:40:47.919 Colin: 1 percent 00:40:47.954 --> 00:40:48.334 CJ: yeah, I guess. 00:40:48.334 --> 00:40:51.086 And yeah, until next time 00:40:51.086 --> 00:40:52.056 Colin: Alright, we'll see you next time. 00:40:53.501 --> 00:40:54.061 CJ: bye friends.