Introduction: Welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse, a podcast
dedicated to promoting financial literacy to firefighters.
I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,
and also a certified financial planner.
With me, I have the other co-host of the fiscal firehouse, Louis Barella, executive
Board member of Local 1309 ambulance driver, and want to be financial expert.
Together, John and I hope to bring clarity to the world of personal finance,
specifically relating to firefighters.
Firefighting is a difficult job making sound.
Financial decisions shouldn't be.
Introduction EF: In today's episode of the fiscal firehouse, John and
Louie discuss emergency funds.
What are they?
What constitutes an emergency?
How do I fund an emergency fund?
And lastly, what's the best account for an emergency fund?
Don't let the lack of an emergency fund be your financial mayday.
Without further ado, let's kick it over to local 1309 studios and the
recording of the fiscal firehouse.
Jon: Welcome back to the Fiscal Firehouse.
I'm your co-host John Beatty.
I sound a little bit under the weather.
I apologize.
I'm fighting something, but, this is something that's not gonna stop.
We're gonna continue.
We guaranteed one episode a month and we're gonna keep producing.
So we're delivering That's right on the mic.
as always.
the fan favorite Louis Barilla in his Michigan blue, as always
represent, are they playing today?
Louie: They're number one seed,
Jon: number one seed.
Do they play today or
Louie: playing today.
Yeah.
Jon: who's the big opponent?
Louie: our first opponent will be decided.
Today.
Jon: Oh.
So they don't even know yet.
Oh, okay.
Louie: do the playing, so Yeah,
Jon: know my badgers are facing the, high point.
Dude, I don't even know what mascot they are.
at noon today.
Okay.
So we'll see their 12 seed.
12 five is always like a bracket buster.
Oh,
Louie: yeah.
That's always a fun one.
I filled down my bracket and I'm a homer.
I'm going Michigan.
I'm riding.
Let's
Jon: you get, well,
Louie: year
Jon: Do you think so?
Okay.
I do.
they didn't bring it in the Big 10
Louie: That's good.
That's good.
'cause then that has some motivation there.
Like you struggle at the Big 10 tournament and then the coach gets
on you and motivates you, tells you like this is your future if
you don't get your shit straight.
So
Jon: guys do something that threes for a bracket or are you
just doing like the generic ESPN?
We have
Louie: a, we do a dual bracket, so you can submit two entries and then we have this.
Complex payout that Reed came up with in terms of who gets paid like winner
gets some, we get, we have a, an award for the worst bracket as well.
So if you have the fewest points scored, you can get some cash there too.
So it's
Jon: So it's a win-win.
I mean, you either really ratted high or just auger it in.
Auger it
Louie: Augered in.
Jon: So do you find that you guys, is there someone that like really picks
a bunch of crap just so they try to
Louie: get, I think someone did that last year.
Jon: year and they didn't end up losing,
Louie: they didn't lose, they were just like media, the, this guy who
was trying the hardest, I think got the worst bracket last year.
So we'll see, man.
Jon: There's a lot of studies that show exactly that.
you know, the infamous one is people that pick, pick the team based on mascots and
like what mascot is like the coolest one.
And they've done better than Diehard, like analytical people that know
injuries, rosters, you know, who's all the other things and all the inside
info and they still can't beat it.
Yeah.
Speaking about
Louie: it's a crap shoot.
Jon: speaking about can't beat it.
There's, have you seen what Calci is doing?
So Calci is one of the prediction markets.
So them in poly market are like the two big ones where you
can basically bet on anything.
it's
Louie: yeah.
Jon: degens are us, you know, so if you wanna bet on it, I mean long,
as long as there's someone that'll take the other side, they'll.
They'll throw up some cash and some wagers.
$1 billion if you call out a perfect bracket, when we went back and did the
lottery episode, we talked about math and the chances, I think it was one and 9.1
or two Quinn trillion,
Um,
Louie: never pay it out.
Basically,
Jon: they said it was the same odds of winning the Powerball.
31 times what of
Louie: getting a perfect
Jon: Of getting a perfect bracket.
That's why once again, these companies would never offer that kind of thing if
they thought it was actually achievable.
that'd be an interesting factoid to see who's actually had gone the furthest, like
with the perfect bracket, has it gone all the way down to the championship game?
Has it made it to
Louie: final.
No.
Jon: eight?
Like any of that stuff?
I don't know.
I
Louie: I think I heard one point someone got to the Sweet 16 with a
perfect bracket, but I could be wrong.
I thought someone at one point
Jon: the sweet 16.
Yeah.
It's normally
Louie: it was year, it was years ago.
Jon: Yeah.
It's normally always the first round, right?
Thursday and Friday there's someone that just, you know, 16 falls to a one
or a one falls to a 16 or whatever.
Like I said, the five twelves always a hot pick for upsets and
Louie: And eight nine's a crap
Jon: eight, nine, and literally coin toss.
On the odds.
Louie: I think more nines win than eight.
It seems like a lot of years.
Jon: that's what I picked this go around.
So it's always fun.
it keeps people entertained.
Louie: It's great.
Jon: great.
I also have the fun factoid.
Don't you know what this is?
What I love about our job so much is all the useless information that
I've gained around this circular table in the kitchen is, this is
the number one week for urologists.
Do you know why?
No,
Louie: people get their vasectomy and then they sit and watch basketball.
Jon: You can't make this up, dude.
You can't, dude, this is the Super Bowl for the urologist.
Oh my God.
so all our urologist friends out there that are hopefully
listening, you know, here's to you,
Louie: that's, I'm doing it next year
Jon: and there might be more people signed up after listening
to last month's episode of the kids that might be on board for this.
Louie: like, you know what?
I don't wanna deal with that headache.
I'm just gonna go get snipped and then I
Jon: don't have time
Louie: Sit and watch
Jon: of which, man, I got some really good feedback.
Yeah, I do too.
From last month's episode.
Yeah.
a lot of different people thought it was, useful for one, but like things that
they hadn't considered and other things.
kudos to, Benny for kind of giving us that.
Um, softball, that softball up there.
I just wasn't on my radar, so keep 'em coming, man.
If there's more things that will resonate with you guys, we're all about it.
Louie: Love it.
Speaking of, you know, firehouse, you're talking about cool facts and stuff.
We have a tradition at threes.
I don't think I've talked about this yet, but it's pretty cool.
We,
Jon: I'm scared
Louie: have a no Google.
Rule on day one.
So we can't settle debates with everyone pulling out their phone and searching
chat GPT or the Googles for the answer
Jon: to, okay,
Louie: So if we don't know the answer to something and we're not sure what the.
What the right answer to whatever topic is.
We have to just debate it like men used to in the firehouse before they
Jon: like the founding fathers had to get up on
Louie: It's the best
Jon: on the dice and speak your argument.
Louie: The best arguer is wins the debate and we're like, oh, maybe he's right.
And then we find out later that he's full of shit and he
didn't know what he was talking
Jon: But you know what, that's a lost art, I think.
I think the art of being able to converse and disagree or make
your point because it's so easy to be like, dude, you're wrong.
So you look at this.
Exactly.
Look at this thing.
You're wrong.
You're
Louie: Yeah.
And that takes away the fun out of it.
Like now let's just argue and debate.
So we'll debate all these topics on day one, and then we have a whiteboard
in the kitchen and we write down the topic that we were all arguing about
and debating about throughout the day.
Yeah.
And then on the morning of day two, we all wake up, you know, everyone
goes, has their coffee, sits around.
At the kitchen table and then we pull out the Google machines and start figuring out
who was right, like you were full of shit.
You convinced me that this answer was right and you had no idea
what you were talking about.
And people are like, yeah, I didn't know.
I thought that was
Jon: But I, yeah, I was really convinced, like I thought I knew and I didn't.
Louie: fun.
It's a fun
Jon: I actually think there should be, that should be instituted more often.
Yeah.
You know, I love that thought of that exercise of like actually having
to make an argument, stand by it.
Debate it and then sit on it.
Yeah.
And then, you know, 24 hours later you can figure out whether or
not you're really right or wrong.
And that's besides the point at that point.
'cause half the fun is in the argument aspect of it.
And getting people spooled up and really just on edge.
man, I think that's a great rule.
So maybe a challenge to the other stations out there listening.
Louie: our engineer Josh Peterson is a good arguer.
So there's a lot of guys at the station, not me, Josh, but a lot of guys at
the station want him to be wrong.
Sure.
so they're like, you know, as long as Josh is wrong, that's all that matters to me.
Jon: Everyone knows someone at the station that's got a talent
a gift for being able to argue.
Yeah.
You can name 'em, we can rattle 'em off.
So yeah, here's to you.
Yeah, all the arguers out there.
Louie: the Josh Petersons of the world.
Jon: That's great.
That's great.
what are we gonna get into today?
Lb, what should we, what should we chat on?
Louie: this is a fun one because, you know, we work with a bunch of dudes
who like to run into burning buildings every opportunity that they get.
And so we like to be part of emergencies.
We respond to emergency funds, but how many of these dudes have emergency funds?
My
Jon: Oh, I like that.
Play on words there.
Look at you.
Louie: guess is very few.
So today we are gonna talk about the emergency fund.
Jon: Yeah.
And this is one that I think, you know, anecdotally and just talking
with people, obviously we are sought out a lot on our department for advice
or guidance on a lot of these things.
and this is one that I think gets overshadowed quite a bit.
Like people don't even really have this on their radar or something like.
Should be in place?
Or like how much or what does this look like?
You know, I think they just have a savings account with some money in it, and I
think they just think that's satisfactory and like that box has been checked
and then they move on with their life.
They don't really think about what is the purpose of an emergency fund?
Why would you even have it?
Why is that different than just having money in a savings
account or a checking account?
Louie: I never get asked that question.
Like the only question I get asked, and I get asked fairly often about, one topic
with emergency funds, and that's always, Hey, how do I get some money on this?
How do I earn some money?
Where can I keep it?
I do get those questions, but really not about The methodology, like
how do I save an emergency fund?
How do I build it?
Why do I need it?
What can I, what should I spend an emergency fund on?
Yeah.
So I think it might be nice to just have a quick conversation about emergency
fund, and especially because in the United States there's like a, it's
hard for Americans to save a dedicated.
Reserve fund that is only used for emergencies and the
statistics bear that out.
So John, one kind of interesting statistic that I saw, or a couple I guess, is
that according to the Federal Reserve, only 63% of Americans can cover a $400.
Emergency using cash.
Jon: Okay?
Louie: Okay.
So a lot of times people will go, I'll just use a credit
card as my emergency fund.
Sure.
I got a $10,000 credit limit.
I'll just use that bad boy.
Yeah.
Which can lead to a slew of problems.
And let's be real, $400 is an emergency.
It's not a lot.
that's not a huge emergency.
In some ways that's like a very modest emergency.
and, bank rate did a survey that showed about 60% of Americans can't cover.
A $1,000 emergency using cash.
So that's, you know, almost two thirds of Americans don't have the ability
to cover a thousand dollars emergency,
Jon: which once again, to your point, is not a lot of money to go
around when you think of all the things that can consider what you'd
want to use an emergency fund for.
You know, a thousand dollars is a pretty low barrier as far as you
know, what an emergency would actually cost in a lot of different context
is whether that's medical or homes or autos and all those other things.
So that's interesting.
I'd be really curious to see what.
The firefighters would look like, and as opposed to this, I feel like we would
be able to maybe cover a little bit more than this, but maybe I'm optimistic.
I don't know.
Maybe we fall right in line with the general population
when it comes to being able
Louie: know either.
My gut was telling me, eh, we, we probably can't cover.
Jon: cover that.
we
Louie: We're probably at least in line with it, but I don't know, man.
it's, for risk taking individuals, which firefighters tend to
be, I can see them going.
I don't know if there's an emergency.
I'll figure it out later.
Jon: And I also see with this is, you know, so the flip side
of that, we talked about how many people could or couldn't cover it.
You also have that, 21% of Americans have no savings at all.
Louie: One in five Americans have no emergency
Jon: so you can't even cover, you know, 30 bucks.
Yeah.
Or whatever you're always digging.
and then 25% or a quarter of those folks, o of Americans had to dip into emergency
funds to cover basic living expenses.
Yeah.
Louie: and that's over the last year.
So over the last year, about a quarter of Americans had a dip into their fund
to cover some kind of emergency expense.
Okay.
Which is a lot.
I think that shows like you probably need it in any given year.
If you have a 25% chance of having a dip into your fund, that means
you probably should have something.
Sure.
Jon: Yeah, no, I definitely get that.
So I guess, you know, maybe we start with, the definition kind.
It's always good to start with a defining of what we're actually talking about.
'cause once again, I think this is a topic that is at the edges is always
talked about in kind of a, an aloof way or an ambiguous way in which
people just I've got some money in savings, or I have a credit card so if
something comes up I can pay for it.
It's not like I have to go without.
But we really wanna talk about what is the essence of an
Louie: emergency.
Mm-hmm.
Jon: Why do you want to have one?
and then what are some of those ways to fund it?
So an emergency fund is a dedicated cash reserve that is set aside
specifically for unexpected expenses.
All right?
So a couple keywords with that is, first of all, it's dedicated, all right?
So you have a separate account, you have a separate bucket, something else
like this that is earmarked, ef, or whatever you want to call it, right?
Whatever your pet name for that.
Fund is, but that's its sole purpose.
Louie: and it's, you know, you mentioned dedicated, but it's also a cash reserve.
So we are not gonna consider your ability to draw on your credit
lines as an emergency fund.
We're saying cash reserves something in cash or cash equivalence
is what an emergency fund is.
Jon: That's good because I think a lot of times those things get convoluted.
So yeah, you want to have the money set aside and we'll talk about where you can
set that money aside, but not relying on revolving credit or credit access in order
to pay for these unexpected expenses.
Super important, small detail, but a very important, so what could it include?
Once again, it says unexpected expenses.
So thinking about things with your vehicle, you know, you
have a transmission that gets.
Blown out and you need a new transmission or anything with that.
Most of the time those things happen unexpectedly.
Home repairs.
Dude,
Louie: one.
Oh yeah.
this is it, right?
This is it.
Home repairs.
if your, furnace goes out in the winter, you're, probably this
year in Colorado you'd be fine,
Jon: be fine.
Yeah.
When your AC blows up because it's, 85 degrees outside and it's March.
Yeah.
This is a, that's an emergency man.
You got, you're married, you got little kids, dude.
they ain't handling a high heat.
Louie: no.
you gotta have your home repairs in order and sometimes that means
dipping into your emergency fund to cover those kind of home expenses.
wife wants a new kitchen, that's not an emergency fund.
I think as important as what is considered an emergency is what's
not considered an emergency.
So emergencies are home repairs.
Vehicle repairs.
'cause you gotta get to work.
We get it.
You gotta have reliable transportation.
medical bills,
Jon: Yeah.
Think about that.
Medical bills.
So once again, you would think, and most people listening to this, right?
a lot of our members and, you know, the fire service in general,
whether you're working for a district or you mean to set up.
Municipality have pretty good insurance, right?
Yeah.
So you're thinking about man, really.
But one of the things that I don't think gets talked about enough is, people that
are on high deductible health plans, you know, where you can be shelling out a
couple grand before you hit that minimum.
so everything that you're incurring in those costs is all coming
out as a deductible right away.
So it's definitely really possible that you can have good health insurance, right?
What's considered good health insurance, but you're on like
a high deductible health plan.
You know, especially for a family dude, it can be in the thousands of dollars that,
that you're gonna be shelling out before you're even meeting your deductible.
I don't think this is beyond the scope of what, you know, the membership and
firefighters in general would experience.
Yeah.
Louie: And then, you know, also equally important is if you lose a job, whether
you're a firefighter or not, if you are outta work and you lose your job,
your living expenses is an emergency.
Food is absolutely an emergency.
That's like the old school emergency, right?
Is you gotta put food on the table for you, for your family.
So you could dip into your emergency fund if you are out of a job and
you can't cover those basic needs.
Jon: Yep.
And I think that's something that, once again, for most of us, like this job is
secure for the most part in the sense of you're probably not gonna get laid off.
You never say never.
I'm knocking on wood right now.
but there are circumstances where you get injured, you know, and once again,
we have a very, Really good modified duty policy here at our organization,
but there's a lot of places where you either have to go into short-term
disability or something else, and there's always that offset in the
amount of money that you're bringing in.
So there's a lot of different ways that you can really carve this thing
up that are completely applicable to a.
To firefighters.
So it not just has to be about, you know, your spouse or your loved
one that's got a regular corporate job or something that like that.
that might be more susceptible to job loss, but, it can definitely happen as
a firefighter, not in that you lose your job, but some of that income is gone
away because you get sick or injured and you have to make up for that.
So not lost on us at that.
That affects everyone.
Louie: Yep.
Yep.
And now let's ruffle some feathers and talk about what are not emergencies.
All right.
Even though a lot of firefighters will probably tell you this is an
emergency for me, I need that side by side, the trailer and the side
by side that you need to buy so that you can, justify your $70,000 truck.
That's not an emergency.
You don't need that this year.
I know you think you do, but you don't.
Uhhuh,
Jon: you talked about vacations,
Louie: Vacation, family
Jon: this one's hard 'cause I feel like it's a need, like for mental health
and all these other things, in the whole scheme of things, you know, back
to what the purpose of this is and if it's the difference between paying
your rent or paying your mortgage or putting food on the table or.
Getting a needed procedure.
Like I think we can all take a step back and be like, okay, I get it.
there's other things that are bigger than just this I want versus I need,
and that's really what it comes down to.
Is this something that you want or is this something that you need?
And so many of those things are just their, they seem like their needs.
Louie: And I get it.
you don't need a $10,000 Disney vacation.
You don't, I, you might think it's so necessary for your mental health.
there are humans that have existed for thousands of years
that have not had a vacation.
All right.
Jon: Yeah.
You tell that to my 6-year-old.
All right, Louie, you're gonna come over and tell little Easty look that.
Sorry, uncle Louie says, this is not a
Louie: a no go.
Jon: This is a want.
And, sorry.
We're just gonna have to, we're gonna have to wait on that.
Louie: I get it.
It's hard, but that's how it is.
and on a related note is, any kind of shortfall in your budget, whether it's
a vacation shortfall, a vacation budget shortfall, or a nice to have, you know,
dining out kind of budget category.
Just because you don't have enough to cover those doesn't mean you should dip
into your emergency fund to make your.
Budget hole that generally requires cutting or moving money around
somewhere else, but we don't think you should dip into your emergency
fund willy-nilly just because you've been overspending in certain areas.
That's a lack of discipline, probably not a good practice to get into.
And if you start developing that kind of little cheat, that little habit,
you're eventually gonna blow through any kind of hard work that you've
done to accumulate an emergency fund.
Jon: You, beat me to the punch on that one.
I think it is.
Once again, Louis and I have said so much about what, so much of what we
talk about is creating good habits and behaviors associated with those habits.
And this is a slippery slope.
'cause you go in there for just one thing.
And then all of a sudden it ends up being something and every time you're
justifying, because maybe at some point you're working overtime or something
else like that and you replenish it so you're like, you're fine.
Yeah.
But it's just going to the well so many times where it's just gonna create
that cognitive habit where it's just gonna become so normal that you do it.
And that's one of the things I think, you know, when you think
about the emergency fund is.
Really should not be that normal where you're having to go into these things now.
Get it dude.
Life happens.
Some people are cursed.
You know, some things is just dude, it's just a shit sandwich and you're
just, there's a lot of things come in for a lot of different angles.
if you extrapolate that out over a longer period of time, the frequency in which
that happens should be less and less.
So it shouldn't be something that you're having to dive into a lot,
hopefully, unless you're cursed.
And we talked about why are emergencies.
Emergency funds important.
So life happens Murphy's Law.
All right.
it's a nice little safety net.
So I would actually, as we're talking about this, I would've loved to see,
you know, and so much of this is, because of the access of credit in our.
Society.
Whether that's through home equity loans, whether that's through
credit cards, whether that's through personal loans from the bank.
You know, this was really a necessity before credit existed.
Like you had to have an emergency fund.
There was no other IOU or I have to borrow, you know, whatever from whoever.
So now just the ease of which credit is accessible, I think as.
Made us maybe a little bit lazy when it comes to thinking about
having an emergency fund, because now you know, like I said, everyone
just puts it on the credit card.
Yeah.
Or they have some other mechanism to fund these things and it doesn't
really create that necessary.
Yeah.
Hey, I've got a whole separate account because I don't have access to this,
Louie: and I'll say this, I think most people probably at one time or another
have used a credit card for an emergency for something that they couldn't
cover because they didn't have it.
The problem is, and you could do that, but I think the price you pay
in addition to a really high interest rate, and then another bill that you
just have to Pay off in the future.
I think the thing that robs from you is peace of mind.
if you are doing that, if you're putting money on high interest credit,
now you're stressed about that.
Now you're thinking about that.
Now you feel guilty about that and you have a problem.
Whereas if you had a cash reserve fund that you can dip into you, you have that
peace of mind of I had to use my emergency fund for what it was intended for.
And sure it sucks that I don't have whatever that amount is for you, which
we'll talk about $10,000, $15,000 anymore 'cause I had to spend some of it.
At least you have the peace of mind of knowing that you use the money
in a way that it was intended for.
And if you don't use it, guess what?
You have peace of mind too, and you can sleep well knowing Hey, if
something does happen tonight, if I do have a leak in my roof and I
know I need to fix it right away.
I have the money to be able to do that.
Jon: Yeah, I think that's a good point.
And something that gets often overlooked.
And what you're describing, Louie, is something that they call
bucketing or mental accounting.
Where you have a certain fund or whatever, but you only envision
it being used for this one thing.
So for a lot of people it might be like a job loss or something else like that,
and that's what they're gonna use it for.
what's hard about that when you bucket it to such a stringent thing is a lot
of people won't use it for what is.
Probably considered an emergency, and what they end up doing is they
end up putting it on a credit card.
Yeah.
Alright, so what would you do to this firefighter?
So you're sitting around the kitchen table having a conversation and they're talking
about their credit card debt and that they got eight grand in credit card debt.
All right.
So you're like, oh, okay, we can talk about how to waste.
To pay that off.
But now they're also talking to you about how they have a $5,000 emergency
fund set aside for emergencies.
how would you go about counseling that firefighter?
Louie: Oh yeah, sure.
Jon: it better to keep that truly for emergencies?
Louie: Yeah.
Jon: Or should we start tackling something that is, you know, considerable amount
of interest, whether that's, you know, probably best case scenario, 20%.
Worst case scenario might be closer to 30%.
and I, dude, this is one that I've actually had some conversations with,
and this is not an easy conversation for one, first, someone's gotta
be pretty trusting and vulnerable to open up about debt, right?
Yeah.
Not everyone is so forthcoming about that, but then it really is okay, now
you as a trusted person who understands finance and understands numbers like.
How do you counsel on how to make that decision?
Louie: Yeah, I, that really depends on the person because there are certain
people who are like, yeah, I have $8,000 of credit card debt that I want to pay
off and I want to get on the right path.
And I have a secure job and I know that I can work some overtimes if I need to.
So basically I'm talking about firefighters, right?
is it okay for me to dip into my emergency fund to, to cover this high interest debt?
I would say that, I would say that it could be okay to dip some in, dip
into your emergency fund to a certain extent, but I still think that you
want to keep a dedicated fund set aside, whether that's $5,000 or.
$2,000 or even a thousand dollars just to fall back on so that you don't have
to put more money on a credit card that you've been working hard to pay off.
Yeah.
So I'm actually a fan of kind of keeping it separately and say, look,
if you have a, let's just say you had that, I think you said 8,000
or $5,000 emergency fund, an $8,000 credit card, I would probably say.
Stop saving for your emergency fund.
Don't put any more money into that $5,000 emergency fund, and instead, every
paycheck that you get, start attacking that credit card and paying it off, but
don't necessarily deplete your, your emergency fund in order to pay that debt.
My gut.
That's what my gut's telling me.
Yeah.
What do you think,
Jon: man?
I totally agree with you.
It really is gonna depend on it.
So I think the first thing that you have to peel back with some of
these things is how did we get to this place to begin with the $8,000?
And not once again a, a assigning fault or shame, unless you can
change the behavior of that person, we're just gonna end up right back
Louie: here.
Mm-hmm.
Jon: you know, kinda the first order of business is a little, let's cut
up the credit card 'cause we can't.
Use that anymore.
'cause we're not using it responsibly to some degree.
So we have to do that.
and then I think you have to go back through a case by case basis.
I think, you know, when you start to figure out how much do you
need for a true emergency fund, I think you start there, right?
And figure out what your costs are, what your living expenses are.
So worst case scenario, what happens, how much.
Would we anticipate you need, and work there?
It might be where we dip into it a little bit, but we keep enough
of a reserve where we still sleep well at night, we feel good.
And then like you said, we go full blown Dave Ramsey and
just go right at this thing.
And every dollar that we have, we go to achieving, paying off that thing.
And basically just.
putting away the credit cards until we can, you know, use 'em in a manner
that's not gonna put us in this position.
'cause so many times, like credit card debt is a lot like dieting.
I've seen this happen a lot where they'll be really good, you know, they'll put on a
lot on a credit card, just like the, maybe they eat a lot around the holidays, right?
Louie: They binge,
Jon: and then they spend, you know, 5, 6, 7 months really working hard
at it and really cutting away at that debt and that credit card.
And then they get to almost zero balance.
Yeah.
But then once again, behaviorally, they just get back in this place
where they then purge again and on another binge and get right back.
And then it's really unhealthy, like high, low, high low kind of thing.
And I think that's just one of those things that you have
to once again get to the root.
Of where we're at now.
Once again, maybe this was something where it was a medical condition or something,
or an automobile thing, you know, and they decided to put the $8,000 on a credit card
instead of using their emergency fund.
You know, I think this is probably a teachable moment to be like, Hey, man.
You know, maybe in the future that's exactly what you should
have used that emergency fund for.
That's a true emergency.
pay off that and then if you still have a little bit more on the credit
card, that's much more manageable than putting all $8,000 on that.
But you know so much it, so much of this comes down to people wanna make it a meth.
Solution, the math says, yeah, dummy this interest rate's this high.
But there's so much psychology involved with all of that stuff, and you really
have to start to unpack that and figuring out how you got to where you are and then
what's the best pathway moving forward.
it's, you're talking to two different people here and you're
gonna get two different answers.
And it really is gonna depend on the person themselves and
what they are comfortable with.
'cause once again.
You know, Louie and I can give you guys solutions and guidance all day
long, but you gotta be on board for it.
you gotta be
Louie: uhhuh
Jon: one carrying that torch.
Yeah.
We can't do that for you.
but this is one, I see this a lot where I see people get pretty
extended on their credit cards and a lot of it is, you know, they just.
We, dude, firefighters love to, do things.
They like to go places, they like to have experiences.
they typically have some toys associated with those things.
Just an expensive lifestyle.
It is, you know, and it's very easy because the get outta jail free card
is, if I just work, you know, if I go on one wild wildland deployment,
if I just work three or 4 24 hour shifts, or I go work down at the
training center and pick up some overtime, then I can pay this off and.
It just, it's something I see come in day in
Louie: oh, when you talk about it, when you build your extra
duty shifts onto your, into your budget as part of your spending.
I, that it's just, it's tricky.
'cause then when you don't get those overtimes, if it's drying up
or if it's hard, now you're behind
Jon: you're behind.
It's a slippery slope too.
And the other part is, man, like you, we work here enough, 48
hours, you know, 56 hours a week.
Should be enough.
and I think
Louie: enough for me.
Jon: I think all the evidence really points to like, you know, trying to get
away from this place as much as you can is really healthy from not only just
a physical perspective, you actually getting restorative sleep and all
those other things, but relationships and emotional and all those other
things, and you just get shit full man.
Louie: It's totally agree.
Shit full.
Yep.
Jon: You know, but this is one though when we're talking about emergency funds
and what classifies as a true emergency, like I've definitely seen people try
to walk a fine line with this one.
Yeah.
Where they have some money in savings, but they don't want to touch it
because they have it earmarked for like true, like catastrophic things.
so they end up putting a lot of things on the credit card where,
you know, once again, I think this probably was an un unexpected expense,
but it's something that you need, once again, whether it's medical.
Auto home, something like that.
it's okay.
It's okay to dip into that emergency fund.
You didn't lose like that is the whole purpose for that thing being there.
Yeah.
And then we just work on shoring it back up.
But dude, I'm just telling you, it's like loss aversion people really, man, they
like to see that number and they never want to see a drop below that number.
Yeah.
I don't know, man, psychology's, it's very interesting to see how the human mind
thinks and how it accounts for things.
yeah.
And it's not a math problem anymore.
No.
People do not want to pull out of that
Louie: It's very rarely a math problem.
And as much as we pick on Dave Ramsey, he does say that, he goes, you didn't get
into this debt situation because of math.
You got into it because of behavior.
Correct.
And so you gotta fix that first.
and then we could start arguing about the optimization of.
Paying off your debt with your emergency fund, you know we're not gonna beat you up
if you've fixed the behavioral problems.
We're
Jon: Yeah.
100%.
So what, so how much should we have?
So I already talked about what it is, right?
We talked about why you need to have one, why you should have one.
but now how much should we have in an emergency
Louie: fund?
Yeah.
This is a much debated topic I've heard anywhere from one month to
two years depending on, what, where we're at in the economic cycle.
And, you know, if you ask people in 2009 how much they should have had,
they've been like, you should have had three years of emergency fund savings.
but when the times are good and you know, the.
People flying high, the economy's burning hot people will be
like, ah, I just have a month.
No big deal.
Jon: get another job.
No problem.
Louie: can get any job you want.
I would say though, that most experts congeal around a three to six month
emergency fund that consists of your.
Basic living expenses.
So a good way to do this exercise is to figure out how much it costs you to
live you or and your family to live.
So that would include things like your rent or your mortgage payment.
It would include your grocery bill, it would include all of those fixed
costs, utilities, you know, you gotta pay excel, you gotta have heat in the
winter, and maybe AC in the summer.
Those fixed living expenses.
Take that number, that monthly number, and multiply it by three to
six, and that will give you a good idea of what your emergency fund is.
So let's say, you are able to get your budget and take away all the
unnecessary items that you don't need.
You don't need Netflix when you're, when you've lost a job.
You don't need, dining out money when you've lost a job.
but you do need groceries.
You do need rent.
You do need those things.
So take your basic fundamental budget, multiply it by.
Three and say, that's what I need.
If that's $5,000 a month, that means you need a $15,000 emergency fund if
you're a big spender, 'cause you're spending everything you get and that
things are just tight and you're spending $8,000 a month on your basic
living expenses, that means you need $24,000 at least in an emergency fund.
And I know that's a lot of money.
I know people are cringing.
Just hearing like you're saying, I need to have 20, about $25,000 just set aside for.
No purpose except for the eventual emergency.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying,
Jon: and I think that's part of why it's hard for some people to
wrap their head around this because it just seems like it's such a.
Louie: tough and
Jon: Ill achievable goal at the very beginning when you're only putting a
couple hundred bucks a month or a paycheck away, you're like, dude and Lou, you're
telling me this is gonna take me eight
Louie: Mm-hmm.
Jon: at, you know, a hundred dollars per month to get to my emergency fund.
that ain't gonna happen.
and that is the reality of this.
And, you know.
We haven't even got into how is this more important than funding your
4 57 and all these other things.
And that's for a whole other topic of conversation.
But really this is one that man, you wanna have an emergency fund, you
just do because life is gonna happen.
Things are gonna come up, and you're gonna want to be able to have that cash reserve.
You're gonna have peace of mind and you're gonna be able to pay that off.
And, you know, three months seems a lot more achievable for
a lot of folks in six months.
And that's been the rule of thumb is if you have two, two incomes, right?
So if you work and your spouse works probably closer to the three months,
if it's just you, that's the sole income provider, maybe six months.
But once again, we talked about job security for us and you know, the fact of.
Completely getting laid off is pretty rare.
so maybe it's even for the single income households out there.
Firefighters, you're the breadwinners, right?
maybe three months is okay.
And I think that's a start.
Yeah.
You know, I think at the end of the day, you know, we're not, you know,
we're just trying to get you guys there or something to think about.
So
Louie: I like to, in
Jon: months does not seem to achievable three months, let's make that our goal.
Louie: Yeah.
and six months is such an overwhelming number and it takes so long that I
just like to tell people three months.
I, so I fall more on like the, I guess the liberal side of emergency fund.
And I'm just like, just have, just get to three months.
That's gonna take a while.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of effort.
But you will sleep better and you will be able to cover a lot of
emergencies if you have three months of your living expenses, six months.
If you're really conservative, you're really nervous, I get it.
I don't think you really need more than that for emergency, but.
I like three.
I think three's a great number
Jon: how do you start building it up?
you know, just like everything else, it's, you know, how do you eat an elephant?
It's one bite at a time.
So once again, it's just this is just setting up a habit or a process.
So whether that's funneling some of your money from your payroll.
To go into an account that's earmarked for emergency funds.
So whether that's a couple hundred bucks a month or you know, 150, $200 a paycheck,
and just start building it up small.
So Dave Ramsey always starts with the small E fund.
The baby E fund, right?
Louie: Yep.
Jon: So start with a thousand bucks.
Now you got a thousand bucks.
I think that gives you some momentum to start getting going.
I'm like, okay, cool.
I am still living in my means.
I've got the thousand bucks.
All right, maybe I can add a little bit more.
And you just keep chopping away at it at that point.
Louie: I think you gotta consider it a bill.
I think you gotta just say look, I have a, this emergency fund bill
that I have to pay every month.
or twice a month when I get paid, when I get my paycheck in, it automatically goes
from my checking account to a dedicated.
Savings account, which we'll talk about in just a minute.
And I don't even look at the money.
I don't even pretend that it's there.
I don't even assume that I could spend that money on something else.
It just, every time I get paid the money, a certain portion of it
just goes away into my emergency fund and I forget about it.
I think that's how you have to look at it.
Jon: Yeah.
No, I like that.
I like that framework.
it just, it's one of those things though, and the hardest part is once
you start getting some traction on this and start, you know, putting
some money away, boy, it's just so tempting to want to get in there.
It's just it's like getting your little hand in the cookie jar, man.
You just, you got that vacation coming up.
Do you?
Trying
Louie: can I use this for, man?
Jon: man.
Discipline.
So much of this is just me having some discipline and just knowing what that
job is and just setting it and letting it go, and then you're good to go.
So you know that, that's the thing to think about the e fund and just know,
you know, especially for firefighters, like you guys have the ability, even if
you're new and you're starting off, or if you've been here for a while, you know.
Overtimes can definitely boost this thing up in a hurry.
Oh yeah.
You start putting a couple overtime checks in there and really setting
yourself up for success, man, you can really start to gain some momentum.
So this does not have to be an arduous process where it does take you five years
to build it up, like you can build up.
I believe most people around here can build up a solid
three month emergency plan.
Louie: And if you commit to paying your holiday pay or your, your extra
duty, your overtime shift into your emergency fund, it will build up quick.
Jon: will build up quick.
And then maybe after two years, 18 months, you're now gonna have a fully
funded emergency fund and you never have to touch that thing ever again.
Like it's great.
It's a great achievable thing that's gonna just give you a lot of, peace of mind.
And, inevitably when something comes up, man, there's something really nice
about just something happening to you.
You just cut a check or you just give cash or whatever.
You put it on a card, but you have it paid off and you're good to go.
Man.
Louie: Feels good.
Jon: good.
It feels real good.
Feels real
Louie: Feels real good.
Yeah.
So the final aspect of this that, we need to talk about, and this is like I
mentioned earlier, the one that I get asked most when it comes to emergency
funds, and that's how do I make money?
Or where do I keep my emergency fund?
Is there any way I can make money on this or should I invest it?
I get asked that
Jon: question.
Mm-hmm.
Louie: should I put this in a brokerage account?
In a taxable brokerage that you guys were just talking about a couple episodes
Jon: Oh yeah.
Love me some fidelity,
Louie: some 8% a year on this bad boy, let's grow this emergency
fund that way then I don't have to contribute more to it.
so let's address that real quick, John.
What are your thoughts on the best places or where a firefighter should
keep his or her emergency fund?
Jon: Yeah.
So once again, getting back to what is the definition or what is the purpose?
The purpose of the emergency fund is to have Liquidity, alright.
So you have to have access immediately.
And this is the problem where people get involved with the stock market.
they're like, dude, I have access.
I can just sell it.
Yeah.
But the problem is we don't know what the value of that stock is gonna be.
So we don't wanna sell stock if it's gone down.
We don't wanna, have a real loss on that.
So it's gotta be something that's liquid.
Yeah, first and foremost.
So most people would argue, and I'm in full agreement, that
putting it in a high yield savings account is gonna be your best part.
You know,
Louie: the uns Sexiest of Savings Methods Right, is just a standard high yield
Jon: Yeah.
not a regular savings account.
So this is not this checking account or the savings account
you have in your bank, all right?
'cause most of the time those are not high yield.
They're paying you literally pennies on the dollar, put it into, and trust
me, they're very good at marketing this, from the banking perspective
in a high yield savings account where they will be able to call you out
what the annual percentage radar is.
The APRs so you can actually compare.
Yeah, You can compare different things and there's a lot of different vendors
out there and a lot of different businesses that you can choose.
I personally use, ally Bank for my high yield savings
Louie: that's a good one.
Jon: it's something that's super easy.
It's completely electronic and virtual, right?
They dot, to my knowledge, they don't have any physical stores.
I set it up, I funnel everything through there.
And you know, currently now I think it's probably in the mid threes.
Yeah.
I think is somewhere that's getting, 18 months ago it was closer to
four and a half, which is great.
Five.
but, and I just set it there and it just sits in that little account
and I don't really touch it.
Yeah.
they made me put in a certain amount of money minimum to start,
and then you just go with it.
So you can really shop around on this
Louie: Yeah.
the reason why we say high yield savings is because even though we're
not saying that the purpose of the emergency fund is to make money.
If you can offset inflation a little bit, especially for an account that's
just gonna sit there for hopefully years and you never have to touch,
if you can get a little bit of interest on it, that would be great.
So I like to use deposit accounts.com.
Jon: Never heard of that
Louie: Yeah, it's, it's almost like bank rate.
it's very similar to that, or, NerdWallet is another one.
I just like deposit accounts better.
I feel like they have more different, like credit unions and
stuff as well that are high yield.
So you can filter it for high yield savings accounts and you can
go check the rates, but they're generally gonna pay about three or 4%.
Not earth shattering, not gonna be something that's gonna
make you able to retire early.
you'll have to listen to other episodes.
Of the fiscal firehouse to figure out how to do that, but it will
just offset inflation a little bit.
High yield savings account, I believe is probably the way
to go for most firefighters.
just put your money in a high yield savings account, put your
emergency fund there and forget about
Jon: Yeah.
another one that is commonly referenced is a money market account.
All right.
So it sounds very similar.
It's a little bit different though in the logistics of how it's set up
because, you know, typically you'll go through a brokerage firm, like
a taxable account brokerage firm.
So Fidelity, vanguard, they can do a money market in that concept.
once again, it's.
Safe.
and it's a liquid.
Yeah.
it's just, the way that they invested is a little bit different.
and sometimes there's actually a little bit more costs associated
with a money market fund than there is a high yield savings account.
But either one of those, you're gonna be fine.
Like you're gonna have direct access to cash.
you can get it within the day or within the 24 or 48 hours that you would need it.
It's definitely the best way.
So things to avoid are other long-term fixed income things.
So don't put it in bonds, don't put it in stocks, don't put it in these
other things that, you're gonna have to suffer some illiquidity and you
might have to sell it at a discount.
And that goes against the, excuse me, the purpose for having emergency fund to begin
Louie: yeah, for sure.
Jon: I think it's high yield savings or nothing at all.
Yeah.
Which is super easy.
And the other thing is don't beat yourself up.
don't go shopping for, you know, 18 different banks to try to save you
an eighth of a hundredth of a point.
Yeah.
you know, if we got 25 grand in there, dude, the difference between 3.25
and 3.3
is not.
Is not gonna move the
Louie: needle, it's not gonna move.
Jon: don't.
Your time is more valuable doing something else with that.
So find a place that you like.
and honestly, I actually like to do it, at a completely separate bank.
So like my emergency fund is that, that's the only thing I have my Ally account for,
Louie: Okay.
Okay.
That's a good way to do it.
I
Jon: have it under my other, credit union account.
Or my fidelity count.
I like to have it completely out in right field.
Yeah, because what also you'll find out is the more you have things commingled,
I've noticed this behaviorally, like the more things you have commingled,
the easier it is for the tendency to kind of want to go in there and
like just take a little bit out.
Just take a little something out of there and just move it over here.
Louie: I'll never notice.
I'll never notice if I take
Jon: But if I have to be like, dude, I can't even remember what my
stupid ally account login is because it's been, I don't know, 18 months
since I've looked in this thing.
that's good.
That's actually really good for your emergency fund.
'cause that means you haven't touched it.
it's been doing its thing, it's safe over there and you're just good to go.
So behaviorally, once again, if you guys can't figure out my mantra and what I
really try to think about is creating good behaviors, dude, I just, that thing
sits over there and I never even touch it.
Louie: Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
I think simplifying and automating your emergency fund
are the two biggest takeaways.
Put in the high yield savings account, have it deduct from your bank account
once a month or twice a month, your checking account, and just have it sit
in that high yield savings account and.
Hopefully you won't have to touch it.
Jon: Yeah, and I think the big thing with this is if you guys have larger
emergency funds just 'cause you have more expenses or whatever, then
you probably can get more into the minutia about which rates paying the
highest and all these other things.
'cause at some point there will be those incremental changes where it will start
to move the needle and it will, you know.
It will be in your best interest to shop around.
But for the majority of us, if you're putting in 20, 25, 30 grand in there,
like just find something that you like, something that works for you,
something that's accessible, right?
And just go with there and then just don't worry about it.
And that's just one other thing.
Louie: So John, I'll just share this little kind of cool anecdote
that's related to emergency funds, but it's just more about financial
responsibility and budgeting in general.
I guess.
And it's this, I have not had to touch my emergency fund in about.
Nine years, eight or nine years.
And the reason why is because I'm, as you know, I'm a big advocate of budgeting, of
giving every dollar a job and making sure you know where all your money is going.
And I have built budget categories for all the different things that most people
would consider emergencies, for example.
New tires on my car is not an emergency.
That's something that I need to plan for, just like oil changes
and even car repairs in general.
I know I have a depreciating asset that I'm driving around and I might need
to pay for some work done to that car.
So in my budget, I have a car maintenance fund that I fund every
month, just a little bit every month, and I've been doing it for years.
Home improvement is the same way.
I know that I have a bunch of depreciating.
Things in my house, like a furnace, like an AC unit, you
know, whatever in your house.
So I have a home improvement category or a home repair
category that I fund every month.
So when there is what a lot of people would call an emergency, like
my furnace goes out, guess what?
I've been saving money in that for years and years.
And now instead of having to reach into my emergency fund, I reach into
my home improvement fund and I fix my.
House that way, or if I, have a medical category for medical bills and things like
that, that my insurance doesn't cover.
So when we have to have, when my middle son had to have a procedure
done earlier this year, I didn't have to reach into emergency fund for that.
I reached into our medical category budget and I have.
Paid for it that way.
It's just something to think about.
And this is like advanced, this is not necessarily personal finance 1 0 1.
Maybe this is like a 3 0 1 or 4 0 1 kind of thing.
But eventually, if you set up your budget correctly and you start anticipating your
future needs, a lot of the things that you might consider an emergency are not really
an emergency because those are things that you know you're gonna need to replace at
some point, and you can plan for those.
On a long time scale.
Jon: Do you ever get to a point with your kind of, your budget and the way
it's set up where you're like, okay, cool, I've got this much in reserves,
I'm not gonna funnel anymore into that, or is this kind of something where
Louie: for the emergency fund, yes.
So I've capped that and I'm like, I don't wanna put anything more
in there 'cause I don't need it.
but in general I know my home.
Repair and home maintenance category, there's always gonna be something.
So even if it's a fairly big category, I know that at some point we're gonna need
it to replace whatever it is, a toilet or a water heater or an ac, and tho those,
you know, those cost 10,000, $15,000.
So I just keep falling, funneling money into those categories, knowing
that at some point I'll use it.
And if I ever get.
To the point where I have so much money in there that I'll never,
ever possibly conceivably touch it.
I've won, that's a great thing.
I guess I could take money from that 'cause it's not an emergency fund.
So I guess I could take some of the funds from that and put it
into my Disney vacation fund if I wanted to or something like that.
But since I've been doing that for so long, I've realized like
I, it doesn't seem like I have a need for an emergency fund now.
I still have one.
Yeah.
Just in case.
But I have tried to anticipate all these other needs that we said are emergencies.
And that is what I draw on when I have a quote unquote emergency.
Jon: So did you have to increase your emergency fund when you
moved into your new house?
Probably some more costs associated with this from like a living expense
or because you've budgeted in a manner for all these other things that you
know at some point are gonna come do.
You just kinda left that emergency
Louie: I left it.
And I don't know, maybe a lot of financial experts would've said, oh
man, you're going into a bigger house.
There's gonna be more stuff.
you gotta have that set aside.
But we really looked into it, we really talked about it a
lot, and we said, we have.
Enough in these other budget categories that even with the bigger house, we
think that we are going to be fine.
And sure enough, so far we have, we've dipped into some home repairs
and stuff like that, that category.
But, yeah, it's worked really well for us.
And that's just a way to show you guys, not that you don't need an emergency fund,
it's just to show you that eventually your emergency fund becomes like this little
thing that you have out there in the.
in the cloud that kind of protects you, but it doesn't
really impact your daily life.
It's a great goal to have and not everyone's gonna get there,
especially not right away.
But, it's been something that has been cool for our peace of
mind and something that I think is a cool thing to work toward.
Jon: Yeah, and I think, you know, this is just a case of point is everyone does
finance a little bit different and you have to figure out what works for you.
and whether that's through budgeting software or some other kind of
accountability tracking, whatever, or if you just know that, hey, because
of all the things in my lifestyle, I know that this is what my.
Basic living costs are every month, even with some of these repairs and
everything else, and you just know and you can round up to about that number.
You're still getting to the same place and everyone's just gonna
do it a little bit different.
It just depends on how your brain works and how you like to think about things.
And I know you really like things in a nice.
Orderly manner and like to categorize things and be
like, okay, this is for this.
And you're definitely a big kind of bucket guy and just allocating it that way.
And I get a lot of our other folks who are just like, Hey man, I just wanna know
how much am I gonna cost me every month?
what's my averages?
And as long as I've got that much money set aside, then I'm good.
and it all works out in the end.
Yeah.
so just do what works for you.
these are just other things to consider or try if you are.
Not as successful as you want to be when it comes to some of the budgeting and the
funding and whether or not these things are truly emergencies or not, it's all
gonna be in the eye of the beholder.
but just things to consider.
Yep.
So not always like a super sexy topic.
We get that thing, but man, this is definitely one though.
if you get ahead of the curve on this one, we've always tried to set our folks
up for success and really let them become financially secure and independent.
And this is like step one, like when I'm meeting with people and we're going
through things and talking about other things and funding things and whatever.
This is the first one, man.
This is in my top.
Two questions I'll ask.
Yeah.
Is, how much money do you have in an emergency fund?
Or what does that look like?
And I'll be honest, it's all over the board.
But this is one for a man, if you really wanna set yourself up for
success, you gotta have this one.
Because if not, you're gonna end up.
Naturally putting things on credit cards and you're not gonna be able to pay 'em
off and you're just gonna be paying a high interest rate when you don't have to.
Yeah.
And it's just prioritizing and just doing it, but it's really hard to, 'cause it's
like you said, a lot of times you get to a point where you won't need this thing and
now you just have this like money sitting there and you feel like obligated, like
somehow you're missing out on something.
you're being almost financially irresponsible for not having
this money go to work.
Like I should be like.
Growing
Louie: Hey, that's a problem that we'll deal with when you get there.
All right.
When everyone gets there, that's a good problem to have
and we can figure it out later.
Jon: 100%.
100%.
So yeah, let us know, guys, what you guys think.
about the emergency funds, once again, I don't think this is gonna
blow anyone's hair back, but, hopefully once again, it demystifies.
What is the purpose?
You're not a failure.
If you have an emergency fund and you don't step and you
don't use it, that's great.
Louie: That's wonderful.
Yeah,
Jon: It's having life insurance and never having to file a claim,
like that's just a great thing to
Louie: do.
Boom.
Jon: Mm-hmm.
All right.
All right, so best of luck to everyone's brackets out there.
Mm-hmm.
March Madness.
Louie: the guys at Station three on the A shift.
Bad luck to you guys.
All right.
Jon: luck to you.
it's, it's always a very fun time of your, people that don't
even really enjoy basketball.
They do enjoy the, spirits and the upsets and all the emotions
that go with March Madness.
yeah, cheers.
And, best of luck to everyone out there that's, watching or got
some friendly wagers on there.
please don't use your emergency fund to go all in on whoever.
Please,
Louie: don't do that.
Jon: That was another topic, that was brought up at a, at an event that
Louis and I went to on Monday, where one of the firefighters was talking
about like, man, you guys should really talk about sports betting and
what's that like at the fire hall,
Louie: We were like, we were like, Hey, we don't wanna lose our subscribers,
man, if we start going after sports betting, there's gonna be a revolt.
We'll get zero listeners.
Exactly.
Jon: exactly.
But, no, thanks for the support guys and everyone out there.
And, we'll, we'll be queuing up another episode here in the, in the near future.
But,
Louie: got big things coming too, so stay tuned.
Jon: We do, we're not gonna quite let the cat out of the bag for this
episode, but just know, in the near future, the fiscal firehouse is gonna
have a little bit different feel.
Yeah.
All right.
and we will just, we'll just leave it at that.
So
Louie: It's
Jon: be good.
It'll be good.
So stay safe out there, everyone.
thanks for listening.
Louie: Keep saving.
Disclosure: The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is a podcast curated
specifically for local 1309 members.
This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only,
and should not be construed as professional financial advice.
Should you need professional advice, consult a licensed
financial advisor or tax advisor.
The opinions of John Beatty, Louis Barilla and their castmates are
solely their own, and don't reflect that of West Metro Fire Rescue.