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In each episode of Sustainability Insiders, Kevin Hegarty speaks to business leaders to find out how they're making their companies more sustainable. In season two, Camilla Smith, from specialist sustainability recruiter Sustii, shares what candidates and employers are looking for in this fast‑growing talent marketplace. Ian O’Donnell MBE, from the Federation of Small Businesses, talks about the challenges - and opportunities - small businesses face in operating sustainably. And one of the sector’s standout leaders, Mary Aladegbola, breaks down how she navigates net-zero challenges across NHS England. Other guests include ESG lead Ewan Donald from engineering business Ipsum, and Graham Duxbury, Chief Executive of Groundwork. Hopefully each of their stories will inspire you on your sustainability journey, and give you the ideas and tools you need to make your own company more sustainable in the very near future.
Hi, and welcome to Sustainability Insiders, the podcast that talks to business leaders to find out how they're making their companies more sustainable. I'm Kevin Hegarty.
Libby Drabble:And I'm Libby Drabble. And we both work for Cadent, a UK utility business that's on its own sustainability journey.
Kevin Hegarty:Cards on the table, we are not experts on this. But perhaps like you, we're eager to learn. Join us on our journey as we chat to business leaders who are finding the answers right now to some of the biggest sustainability challenges.
Libby Drabble:In this episode, we speak to Simon Rutledge from Biffle Waste Services, an established leader of sustainable waste management in The UK, which provides end to end waste and recycling solutions for thousands of businesses and millions of households each day.
Kevin Hegarty:In our chart, Simon tells us why he and Biffer are on a mission to get everyone to change the way they think about waste, how the waste industry as a whole is reducing fuel usage, and he gives his top tips for businesses for how to reduce emissions. Simon, welcome to Sustainability Insiders. I'm really pleased that you've agreed to join Libby and I on this because it's such an interesting topic, waste. We've all got it in any business that we're working in and how we deal with it is obviously a big part of that sustainability journey. But could I ask you first about why a company like Bifa, a company that exists to deal with waste is actually on a bit of a mission to reduce waste.
Simon Rutledge:Yeah, no, really pleased to be here, thank you for that and thank you for the invite. We're on an absolute mission to change the way people think about waste and designing waste out of processes is one of the key focuses that we have. I guess it's all part of being a sustainable business. We wouldn't exist in ten, fifteen, twenty years' time if we didn't have regard to the future of the planet and the future of the businesses we serve. So it's absolutely a key priority looking and working with businesses to look at what they produce and to make the best use out of what they produce and to try and avoid materials being wasted in the first place.
Kevin Hegarty:So let's talk about Bifa itself and what Bifa doing, Bifa Waste Services is doing in relation to its own waste. What sort of things can you tell us that you're introducing as kind of best practice models or perhaps innovating in this area?
Simon Rutledge:Yes I guess as a business we work very closely with our customers. We've been looking at the model of the business as a whole. And we've been trying to apply the waste hierarchy to what we do. So starting off with the waste hierarchy, at the top of the waste hierarchy is reducing the amount of waste we produce and reducing the amount of waste our customers produce. So we have an arm of the business called Company Shop Group.
Simon Rutledge:Company Shop Group is a recent acquisition probably two years ago. And Company Shop Group is aimed at redistributing surplus materials and surplus stock. So in essence, we work with suppliers in both the retail and food production chain and we work on the basis of the materials that they would have previously produced that might have gone into a bin, that might have gone to landfill where there is a secondary use for them or where they're not at the end of their life. For for many reasons, it could be, I don't know, it could be that the labeling on the item is is wrong or incorrect. It's been printed wrong.
Simon Rutledge:So we'll work with those companies to to relabel those items and then put them through our chain of 14 retail outlets. The retail outlets work on a membership basis, so we can offer membership to members of the emergency services, to various different supply chain actors and people on low incomes. And those members can then visit one of our retail outlets and purchase the items at a heavily discounted price. It could be things, for instance, historically, I guess, where a distribution center might have had pallet loads of bottles, glass bottles, and one of those glass bottles is broken or several of those glass bottles are broken. Historically, that might have been disposed of.
Simon Rutledge:The rest of the items are absolutely perfectly drinkable and there's no particular issue there but people from a health and safety view might have thought that there's an issue around glass there. So we'll take that back into our distribution center near Barnsley. We'll depalletize it. We'll wash all the bottles, relabel where necessary and pack those up again for distribution to the 14 stores. So all of that is really helping our customers reduce the amount of waste that they produce.
Simon Rutledge:But also working with non food and non drinks businesses, we'll offer consultancy services. So consultancy services on packaging, we've got packaging experts. And we'll work with businesses. So one example in the last year, we've been working with a leading supplier of plumbing and heating equipment. And they wanted to look at their supply chain to reduce their emissions and to reduce the amount of materials that they they were they were wasting and to make their materials more recyclable.
Simon Rutledge:So what we've done with them working in conjunction with them is is to put together a a simple guide that their their the procurement team and their their warehousing team can can work with to identify opportunities for for them to work with the supply chain to reduce to to reduce the waste, to reduce the the amount of materials, But then also to make sure that the packaging that they are buying on the on the products that they're getting is recyclable. So for instance, cardboard is is is really easily recyclable in the in The UK. But if you stick lots of polythene on it or tape on it, it becomes more difficult and there's more waste in the recycling process. Just for things like plastics, plastics are a really a really key useful packaging material. But if those plastics are multilayer and multipolymer or multiple types of plastics and they're laminated together then they become more difficult to separate out and recycle.
Simon Rutledge:So, again, the the the guidance note that we worked with with with this large business was absolutely focusing their attention, working for to to help them work with their suppliers to to reduce the amount of packaging they use, but also probably more keenly keenly look at the packaging and and make it really easy to recyclable. We can then collect it, and we'll separate it and sort it at one of our sortation facilities and ensure that it deciphers off to a real recycling outlet. And the the amount of waste in those recycling systems is then reduced by removing those extraneous nonrecyclable items, And we're getting a good clean stream of recyclate out of those those screens of those waste streams. So there's a couple of examples of where we're working with with customers, both from a retail perspective. And just from the retail perspective, we last year, we handled 107,000,000 products for redistribution.
Simon Rutledge:45,000 tonnes of food and drink were processed, and we relabeled 20,000,000 items to make them perfectly usable and perfectly good for sale. And that's a real sort of key aspect, really working with those customers and suppliers in partnership to to reduce the amount of waste they produce. It does sound slightly counterintuitive that we would do that as a as a waste management business, but we're we're getting more value out of the products by keeping them in the circular economy for longer.
Libby Drabble:It sounds like Biff is doing a lot then to sort of change the way that people are thinking about what actually does need to be legitimate waste what can be re reused and recycled. I'd love to know a bit more as well about what you're doing in terms of recycling within Wales. So I think we spoke about previously about the the the lot of works being done Wales when it comes to recycling. So how does that translate over into Belfa?
Simon Rutledge:Yeah. So the Welsh government have been really proactive on leading the way when it comes to waste and recycling and the circular economy as a whole, and they built in into their strategies of and government plans some real positive steps to reduce the amount of waste they produce and make sure that what waste they do produce is is collected. So they funded their local authorities, and their local authorities collect more materials segregated. So we operate one contract in in the in the North Of Wales on behalf of the island of Anglesey local authority. And there, we collect materials segregated on a single truck that go back for recycling.
Simon Rutledge:That avoids the need to sort those out quite so much. It also really makes the householder really keenly aware of any contamination. Because if they're throwing, you know, the bean can in into the recycling bin, you know, if if it's if it's in a separate container with and they've got a food waste container alongside it where they can scrape the the contents, the waste contents out, It's really you you end up getting two really nice clean recycling streams. And from April, earlier on in April, they they they enacted a similar sort of process for businesses. So putting a legal requirement on all businesses to segregate out more materials.
Simon Rutledge:So all businesses in Wales require a food waste recycling system, which, again, mirrors what the people are doing in their households. And it's it's just simpler because it you know, people are doing at work exactly what they're doing at home. So the food waste recycling is separate. There's a separate collection of of glass. There's a separate collection of plastics and cartons and metal tins, and then there's a separate collection of paper and card.
Simon Rutledge:So, again, we still need to sort those cartons, metals, and plastics out, but they're they're cleaner recyclates because people are more aware of the the the need to segregate materials. But, also, you then look at, you know, the quantity of materials you're wasting. So that can then feed back into a business decision to change their procurement processes or to, you know, promote people at work using re reusable drinks containers, for instance. So instead of having single use drinks containers or coffee cups that are thrown away, You can you can promote people using washable reusable drinks containers. I have a I'm I'm on the road quite a lot.
Simon Rutledge:I do travel quite a lot. I was on the train up to up to Glasgow on Monday. I was quite happy to take my chilled metal drinks flask, and I had a really nice cold drink on the way and also a nice thermally insulated teacup. So, again, you know, it's it's it's preventing waste. It's it's preventing me having to go to a a coffee outlet and and buy buy materials.
Simon Rutledge:That then helps businesses reduce their their costs both by buying in the raw materials and and paying for for someone to to come and collect them. It improves their sustainability and moves materials up the hierarchy. So it's really positive. In Wales, some of their local authorities have moved to less frequent residual waste collections. So households potentially have recyclates of food every every week or every other week and then recyclates every other week and then residual waste collections potentially around about every three weeks or even in some local authorities, four weeks.
Simon Rutledge:And people are finding that if you put in all the alternatives, and and some have have got nappy collection schemes, for instance, where where some small where families have small children, and that offensive waste might be problematic to keep for four weeks. If you can use an alternative, then it means that the the overall collection system really does work. And they've seen some really good results with their recycling rates absolutely rise. And Scotland have been doing a similar thing for for a number of years. 2015, they introduced the the legal requirement to have food waste collections and the legal requirement to have segregated recycled collections.
Simon Rutledge:But in Scotland, the majority of small businesses co collect the recycler as long as the glass waste is is kept separate. England, we're we're looking to the the the last government introduced a policy of simpler recycling. And in England, we're looking to replicate somewhere in between the two. So, again, we're gonna end up having segregated food waste collections for all for for all businesses, and that's gonna come in just next year. So March, April next year, businesses will will will require segregated food collections and a a segregated recycler collection, but those recyclers can be collected under under the the English Simple Recycling System.
Simon Rutledge:At the moment, the proposal is that those could be collected in a in a coaming cold format. Operators might want materials to be collected separately, so we we will be looking for producers that produce a lot of glass, for instance, as a as a really heavy material, which when it gets broken, can cause health and safety issues, but also can cause contamination issues in in other materials like paper and fiber. We'd be looking for for producers of large quantities of that to provide a separate collection. So things like hospitality and and those sorts of outlets, we we we might look to offer that as a as a as a as a potential solution for their for their materials. But the rest of the materials are are likely to be co mingled and and collected.
Simon Rutledge:So again, the idea is you have a simple system that's similar to that which will be rolled out the following year in 2026 by local authorities. Most local authorities already have something along those lines. It's very few now that don't have some segregated collection, but very few have food waste collection. So that'll be new for householders to for for many householders to adopt food segregated food waste collections. And, again, my my just just my mother who lives in the next in about 20 miles away from me, they've been trialing food waste collections in Northwest Leicestershire for a little while.
Simon Rutledge:And to start with, she thought it was gonna be a little bit icky, but they've they've adapted to it. You know, the the food waste caddy is is is stored in an appropriate place in a shed, and they they utilize it, and it gets collected. And, yeah, they don't waste as much food. I hasten to add they're of a generation where they they they will make food last and and reuse it in different recipes, which again is something that we'd absolutely promote.
Kevin Hegarty:So I'm thinking that, you know, I'm a business, know, a small business let's say that's desperate to do more in relation to waste management, you know, and sees it as an important thing I've got to do as a as a business. What sort of tips can you provide an organization? It sounds like different countries. Wales has got a great system by the sound things. Scotland's doing really well.
Kevin Hegarty:England in a way, you know, catching up as opposed really, you know, but but as a as a business that wherever I am in in within this country, what are the what are the key tips that you would perhaps offer, Simon, in relation to how how weak people can manage waste in it and making it more sustainable?
Simon Rutledge:No. Absolutely. Well, the key starting point, I guess, is from a compliance perspective, understand what the local regulatory requirements are. And, again, approach your waste contractor, and they can absolutely provide advice. There are there there's advice on government websites as well, which relevant government websites, which will give independent advice on on those requirements.
Simon Rutledge:But then I'd I'd really advise that you start looking at the materials that you are producing, what waste you are absolutely producing. And, again, try and start quantifying that. So keep records of the amount of materials that you're producing. Again, you can approach your waste contractor, and they they can advise on that and and potentially give templates and and and pro formas. But by measure starting to measure the amounts of materials that you're producing, the amount of paper, the amount of card that you're producing, and the wider range of materials that you're producing, you can really start to drill into making sure that those materials are are collected in a in a way that can be recycled, or you can look at further up the supply chain and see whether or not you can engineer those out of the out of the system.
Simon Rutledge:So talk to your suppliers about the materials that they're packaging their products in. Packaging is really key. You've got to package materials to prevent the actual item becoming destroyed because there's usually a lot more carbon in in embedded in the actual items themselves than there is in the packaging. So making sure that the product gets used properly and arrives safely and undamaged is is the key purpose of the packaging. But as I suggested earlier, just really looking into the recyclability of that.
Simon Rutledge:And you do get examples of of of overpackaging. I I bought a a memory card recently for for my work phone. The memory card is the size of my little fingernail, and it was was an it was I bought it in an online store and it was delivered in a in a in a large padded envelope that was actually slightly too big to fit through my my my door flap. So I ended up having to rearrange the collection, which wasn't ideal. I then opened the envelope and inside there's actually another envelope and inside that there was a cardboard square with a sort of blister pack in it.
Simon Rutledge:You rip open that and inside that is a plastic folding item. Finally you get to the actual memory card which is, as I say, the size of my fingernail. So in those sorts of examples, and that's clearly an extreme example, you know, you can talk to your suppliers and and make sure that the materials you you you are buying are appropriately packaged. But also really drilling down to, you know, are you buying stuff that is going to waste, isn't getting used, and making sure that, you know, the key resources that you're acquiring are are acquired in a in a timely manner so that they don't go off if they're perishable, and they can get used and they're they're they're right for the purpose you intend to use them. So, again, that can actually save you money in making sure you're only buying what you need.
Simon Rutledge:You're only buying the the packaging that you need to get the product to you in a in a usable format, and you're then potentially looking at the the types of packaging and making sure that that is easily recyclable. You're then measuring that when it does become a waste and looking at it and and working that back through the chain. And then you're making sure that you're compliant with the recycling schemes in your area to ensure that you're legally compliant, but also from a sustainability point of view to make sure that you're maximizing the opportunity for that material to be recycled. Even if it can't be even if materials can't be recycled, what we end up seeing is the majority of the remainder of the residual waste is processed into refuse derived fuel, so RDF. And that RDF goes to an energy from waste plant where we recover energy from the burning of that material.
Simon Rutledge:So but, again, you know, we wanna keep the materials in the circular economy for as long as possible. So avoiding materials being wasted is is absolutely key. And and and having a a quick look at what you're what you're buying, what you're producing, how you're getting your materials collected is is is a good first step. And hopefully, saves you costs as well as making your your business more sustainable.
Kevin Hegarty:And Libby and I are both fascinated having done our research into this around some of the things that Biffer is doing from an innovations perspective. And I'm gonna have to ask you about black fly larvae because it it was the one thing that stood out to me when I was when I was looking into this, and both Libby and I talk to us about that and what what what what sort of perhaps some of the other innovations that are happening within Biffer to to help us all manage waste going forward?
Simon Rutledge:Yeah. No. It's we're we're as a business, we have a small innovation team that are looking constantly what's out there and how we can improve what we do. When I started the business almost thirty years ago, you know, waste was very low on everyone's priority, and and the waste collection systems were quite basic, landfill predominated. We've moved rapidly away from that over the years.
Simon Rutledge:We still have landfill for some difficult to handle materials, things like asbestos that are inert anyway, but hazardous and harmful to health. Putting that in a sealed contained landfill site makes absolute sense. But, yeah, the innovation teams are are are out there constantly looking at at at things too. So for things like food waste, clearly, our preference is to avoid the material becoming waste. So we'll we'll work with suppliers feeding materials through our company shop group to to redistribute that that material where it's surplus.
Simon Rutledge:Where it is absolutely you know, it's it's no longer suitable for safe or suitable for for consumption. We'll collect those materials. And and what we do with that at the moment is is put that through an anaerobic digestion plant, which is a large biological process which breaks down the food in in water and heats it up to to to sanitize the material. There's there's bugs in the tanks that digest the material. Those bugs produce a methane rich gas.
Simon Rutledge:That methane rich gas is then utilized to to generate electricity. And and there is a compost like output, a fibrous output that's been sanitized that comes out of that and a liquid output that can be used as a fertilizer. So that's currently what we do. But, again, we're then looking further up the supply chain to see whether there's something additional we can do. And there's some research going on at the moment with a particular type of fly larvae, which could potentially be utilized to digest the material.
Simon Rutledge:And the the protein that they produce in their their larvae can then potentially be used as animal feed. It would only work for for vegetable matter at the moment because there are concerns around making sure that, you know, disease spread is is because it's gonna end up in animal feed, disease spread is minimized, so it would only use for vegetable matter. But it's it's just one of those innovation pieces that we're we're working on. It may not come to anything. You know, the a a good chunk of the innovation items we look at don't necessarily make it to market, but we have to keep looking at those sorts of innovations to make sure that we're, as a business, providing those new and slightly odd things that have caught your imagination there.
Simon Rutledge:Certainly, Kevin. And, yeah, it's it's it's interesting.
Kevin Hegarty:Yeah. It's such a big topic, isn't it? But I think it would be remiss of us not to ask around the simplicity of this and simplicity of of managing waste. You know, for for a business, big or small, and perhaps here now I'm thinking of the smaller business that might feel it's another task that you've got to do. Could I just ask you about the stress and the importance of of dealing with waste and and why it is such a big part of of any businesses plan, that it's got a good strategy in place and a good process in place that I suppose is as simplistic as it can be to make it easy for any employee to get involved in.
Simon Rutledge:Yeah. I guess it's it's relatively easy for a larger business like our own. We employ a small team of sustainability experts who've driven forward and and developed a strategy, and we put a strategy in place for our business. We we published it back in 2020. We will be reviewing it next year.
Simon Rutledge:And within that, we've we've set sort of emissions reduction targets. So we want to reduce our our emissions. That that then becomes slightly more difficult for for for for small producers. But it should be relatively straightforward because they're closer to the actual nuts and bolts of the business. You know, they may only have a small number of sites.
Simon Rutledge:They may be closer to to the actual data. So measuring the as suggested earlier, measuring the the the materials that they're wasting is is key. And, also, measuring the materials they're buying is key, making sure that that's absolutely minimizing the the the wastage. Talking to your talking to your waste waste contractor and and getting some ideas of them, it's their it's our specialism. It's it's what we do.
Simon Rutledge:It's it's what I live and breathe. I I dislike waste, and I want to engineer it out of the systems, but I I I you know, I'm passionate about that. And it's slightly infectious. I I was out at the weekend, and I took some pictures of of Biffer bins just because that's what kind of what you do. And the site I was at had some excellent segregation for mixed recycling glass and residual waste and also for problematic materials.
Simon Rutledge:So they had a a sort of a a container for for for hot materials like barbecue ashes, which, again, we've had problems with historically causing fires in in in waste, especially when we moved away from what used to be the ash can collections forty, fifty years ago with a metal bin to the plastic bins of of of today. So, yeah, measuring the the sorts of materials that you're producing is absolutely key and then focusing on the important things. So what are you what are what what's what's the biggest impact that you have? So if you're a transport business looking at, you know, the the the fuel burn and what you can do about that is is really key. So that was a material aspect of of of our business.
Simon Rutledge:We we have a large number of trucks and 3,200 odd trucks collecting people's materials. So if you've got a you know, a reasonable amount of trucks, what can you do to to change driver behavior to to drive more safely and more sustainable? But, also, you know, are the journeys really necessary? We're talking remotely today. You know, is is it necessary to to drive long distance to to a location?
Simon Rutledge:So it's it's all about identifying what's material and important to to you as a business. So, again, you know, a a food retailer or or a a restaurant or a cafe should look to get food separate waste food collected, and that then avoids that material going into potentially landfill or or energy from waste, which can improve the the overall sustainability. But then if you've measured the amount of food waste, you know, you're producing, you can then look at why you produce that and what you can do to avoid its production in the first place. So, yeah, it's it's really about looking at what's material to you as a business, and and we undertook a materiality assessment when we were putting together the original strategy back in prior to publication. We did the materiality assessment in 2019.
Simon Rutledge:And we absolutely reached out to lots of our stakeholders. We we talked to our suppliers. We talk to our customers. We talk to regulators, so the environment agencies, and we talk to NGOs who are, you know, some wildlife trusts and and Greenpeace and and the like. So getting a wide spread of ideas so that you're not just focusing down in specific areas.
Simon Rutledge:And we asked them what was important from a sustainability perspective, and they fed back. So, again, having a talk to your suppliers and your customers, Many many many customers are really getting the bug and really promoting sustainability within their supply chains. So we have lots of conversations with our customers who are wanting to do things differently and reduce the amount of waste they produce. So we're we're working with them to to assist that and and trying to make sure that where waste is produced, it's it's directed into a recycling outlet, a reuse or recycling outlet. And, again, it really helps them not just get a badge to say they're more sustainable.
Simon Rutledge:It really helps them to to have a real impact on the environment in which they work. You should also remember your people. We can't forget our people. So we talked earlier about one of the examples where we're we're trying to make things safer for our our workforce. Again, people are a key asset to a business.
Simon Rutledge:They're they're key to the success of a business. And training them to make them more more aware of their their own health and safety, but also the the the social impact of what the business is doing and the environmental impact of what the business is doing is really key. And it can be really straightforward as a little toolbox talk with some pictorial diagrams that go near the bins that say what goes in which bin. And it's amazing. Even most consumers these days are getting more savvy about making sure the the the right waste goes in the right bin.
Simon Rutledge:So we're gonna see more of that as SimpleRecycling rolls out in England and local authorities change their recycling systems and and coalesce with a a type of recycling system. And in Wales, absolutely, with with their segregated recycling systems, there's a lot of information. The the Welsh government actually ran adverts, and I've not seen sort of government adverts on that sort of scale since, you know, the Green Cross cross code was was released forty thirty thirty, forty years ago. So educating educating your staff to make sure that they're doing the right thing is a is a real key, easy win. And that, again, should help produce wastage, which then really does hit your bottom line and make sure that you're you're not wasting materials that that should be either sold as products.
Simon Rutledge:In the case of a restaurant, making sure that the the right orders are taken and the the right materials are the right food is cooked and that the portion size is right. And only if it's only if it does become waste does it go into a food waste collection bin. So all those really simple ideas. But number one, measure it. If you don't measure it, you don't know what the the scale of the issue is.
Simon Rutledge:And if you measure it, you you'll almost certainly focus in. And then setting targets to produce that that waste that's that's in line with your business objectives as well. So you might still be wanting to grow your business, but you look at the amount of waste you have per, I don't know, item of product you're producing or or turnover of your business. So, you know, you you're still allowing yourself to grow, and there might be an increase in waste, but you're reducing the amount of waste per per per per product that you're you're producing or or per plate of food that you're serving up. So, yeah, those are the those are those are a couple of really key easy steps.
Libby Drabble:Oh, brilliant. Thanks, Simon. So it sounds like there's there's a lot that businesses small and big can do then to to reduce their their impact on their waste and then that big bit about as well data, like knowing a bit more about your products and what's available and talking to waste management consultants as well just to know exactly what what they can do. So I just wanted to thank you for your time today. It's been really interesting speaking to you.
Simon Rutledge:Thank you very much. It's been it's been an absolute pleasure.
Kevin Hegarty:Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of Sustainability Insiders, please give the show a follow and a review in your podcast app.
Libby Drabble:If you've got a story to share about how you're making your business or industry more sustainable, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email using media.relations@cadentgas.com. Speak to you again soon.