1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,791 [MUSIC] 2 01:00:17,500 --> 01:00:18,958 Well, hello and welcome to another 3 01:00:18,958 --> 01:00:21,125 episode of Undercooled. 4 01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:23,916 Today, we're here with Professor Willie 5 01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:26,250 Rockward from Morgan State University. 6 01:00:26,916 --> 01:00:28,916 I've known Willie for many, many years 7 01:00:28,916 --> 01:00:29,916 when I started to go 8 01:00:29,916 --> 01:00:31,791 down to Morehouse College 9 01:00:32,041 --> 01:00:33,291 to recruit students from 10 01:00:33,291 --> 01:00:35,291 my research experience for 11 01:00:35,291 --> 01:00:37,208 undergraduates program in France, the 12 01:00:37,208 --> 01:00:38,541 optics in the city of late. 13 01:00:39,416 --> 01:00:41,583 And I got to sit in and watch Willie 14 01:00:41,583 --> 01:00:45,041 teach physics to his students at an HBCU. 15 01:00:45,291 --> 01:00:46,666 And it was amazing. 16 01:00:47,416 --> 01:00:49,875 I've since maintained a relationship with 17 01:00:49,875 --> 01:00:51,333 Willie for many years, and 18 01:00:51,333 --> 01:00:53,708 we've even had a student from Morgan 19 01:00:53,708 --> 01:00:54,708 State who went to our 20 01:00:54,708 --> 01:00:56,166 program last summer. 21 01:00:57,041 --> 01:00:59,208 But I've really seen what he's done to 22 01:00:59,208 --> 01:01:01,708 the National Society of Black Physicists, 23 01:01:01,708 --> 01:01:03,250 how he helped revive the whole 24 01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:05,208 organization that was in 25 01:01:05,208 --> 01:01:06,916 pretty severe financial shape. 26 01:01:07,333 --> 01:01:08,250 And now they're in pretty 27 01:01:08,250 --> 01:01:10,000 amazing financial shape and 28 01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:11,833 probably partially because 29 01:01:11,833 --> 01:01:13,166 of Willie and his vision. 30 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,541 And when he talks, it's great. 31 01:01:16,083 --> 01:01:17,750 So Willie, why don't you tell us a little 32 01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:18,958 bit about your background? 33 01:01:19,208 --> 01:01:20,666 How did you get into physics? 34 01:01:20,666 --> 01:01:21,916 How did you start teaching 35 01:01:21,916 --> 01:01:23,416 and what are you doing now? 36 01:01:24,291 --> 01:01:26,208 Wow, wow, well, Steve, thank you first 37 01:01:26,208 --> 01:01:27,041 and foremost for 38 01:01:27,041 --> 01:01:29,250 inviting me to participate in 39 01:01:29,250 --> 01:01:29,833 this podcast. 40 01:01:30,250 --> 01:01:32,083 And this is share, share in 41 01:01:32,083 --> 01:01:33,833 my pathway and things I do. 42 01:01:35,083 --> 01:01:36,458 Yes, we did meet a while back. 43 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,500 And I think you have 44 01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:42,208 very fruitful engagement. 45 01:01:43,333 --> 01:01:44,291 Well, a little bit about me. 46 01:01:44,708 --> 01:01:48,666 I'm a Louisiana boy born 47 01:01:48,666 --> 01:01:50,375 in the bayous of Louisiana, 48 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,708 South Louisiana below New Orleans. 49 01:01:53,375 --> 01:01:54,000 Believe me, there's a 50 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000 city below New Orleans. 51 01:01:56,333 --> 01:01:57,875 But then also did my 52 01:01:57,875 --> 01:01:59,083 undergrad and all that stuff. 53 01:01:59,083 --> 01:02:01,000 Well, how I got into 54 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,250 physics was very strange. 55 01:02:03,583 --> 01:02:04,291 Okay, I got into 56 01:02:04,291 --> 01:02:05,500 physics through football. 57 01:02:06,166 --> 01:02:08,583 I was a football player, high school 58 01:02:08,583 --> 01:02:10,000 football star running back, 59 01:02:10,375 --> 01:02:12,208 receiver, kickoff return, punt return, 60 01:02:12,208 --> 01:02:13,125 all that kind of stuff. 61 01:02:14,375 --> 01:02:18,000 And but my real, so my passion really was 62 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,166 football at the time. 63 01:02:19,208 --> 01:02:22,125 But I wanted to play for Grambling, a 64 01:02:22,125 --> 01:02:24,041 very famous coach, Eddie Robinson, 65 01:02:24,583 --> 01:02:25,208 at Grambling State 66 01:02:25,208 --> 01:02:26,333 University in Louisiana. 67 01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:28,291 That's in the northern part of Louisiana. 68 01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:30,875 And I just, anyway, I 69 01:02:30,875 --> 01:02:31,833 tried on and made the team. 70 01:02:32,083 --> 01:02:32,916 All they offered me was 71 01:02:32,916 --> 01:02:33,875 a physics scholarship. 72 01:02:34,333 --> 01:02:35,083 But I tried on and 73 01:02:35,083 --> 01:02:35,916 made the football team. 74 01:02:36,250 --> 01:02:39,500 And I made it and played for Coach Rob 75 01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:40,666 for about maybe two, 76 01:02:40,666 --> 01:02:41,791 three weeks in practice. 77 01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:44,333 Cuz the linebacker hit me so hard, I was 78 01:02:44,333 --> 01:02:45,416 like, okay, yeah, I 79 01:02:45,416 --> 01:02:46,166 can't keep doing this. 80 01:02:47,041 --> 01:02:48,958 [LAUGH] But nevertheless, and since then, 81 01:02:48,958 --> 01:02:50,875 I've been in the physics hot and heavy. 82 01:02:53,166 --> 01:02:55,500 But anyway, we were at Morehouse. 83 01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:58,125 I was a professor at Morehouse about six 84 01:02:58,125 --> 01:03:01,416 years ago, about 20 years. 85 01:03:02,333 --> 01:03:04,958 And now I'm at Morgan State, chair of the 86 01:03:04,958 --> 01:03:06,416 Department of Physics here, and 87 01:03:06,583 --> 01:03:07,541 we're having a great time. 88 01:03:08,791 --> 01:03:12,833 So that's a quick, very snippet of me. 89 01:03:13,875 --> 01:03:18,083 But I'm engaged in all levels of 90 01:03:18,083 --> 01:03:19,541 mentorship with students. 91 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,416 My expertise is in the 92 01:03:22,416 --> 01:03:24,000 area of optics and lasers. 93 01:03:25,458 --> 01:03:27,916 Did the research more in diffractive 94 01:03:27,916 --> 01:03:29,875 optics, lithography, 95 01:03:29,875 --> 01:03:31,416 nano lithography, things of that nature. 96 01:03:31,708 --> 01:03:34,041 And been doing a little bit recent 97 01:03:34,041 --> 01:03:37,458 research in some metamaterials and 98 01:03:37,458 --> 01:03:38,333 things like that, so. 99 01:03:39,666 --> 01:03:39,958 Fantastic. 100 01:03:41,500 --> 01:03:44,250 So one of the things that I think our 101 01:03:44,250 --> 01:03:46,416 materials community would love to hear 102 01:03:46,791 --> 01:03:50,083 from you is what do we need 103 01:03:50,083 --> 01:03:52,458 to know at our primarily white 104 01:03:52,666 --> 01:03:54,875 institutions about 105 01:03:54,875 --> 01:03:56,458 African American students? 106 01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,458 And we get students from Africa, and 107 01:04:01,458 --> 01:04:02,375 they're different than 108 01:04:02,375 --> 01:04:03,750 students from America. 109 01:04:05,250 --> 01:04:07,833 And so I know that 110 01:04:07,833 --> 01:04:09,333 you've primarily focused 111 01:04:10,625 --> 01:04:12,750 on African Americans. 112 01:04:13,625 --> 01:04:16,083 So what do we need to know 113 01:04:16,083 --> 01:04:17,916 about African American students? 114 01:04:18,666 --> 01:04:20,333 Because where I wanna go with this is I 115 01:04:20,333 --> 01:04:23,458 wanna learn how we can do the best 116 01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:26,333 possible job to support them, make sure 117 01:04:26,333 --> 01:04:27,666 they feel like they belong. 118 01:04:28,125 --> 01:04:30,583 And make sure that we meet 119 01:04:30,583 --> 01:04:32,250 them wherever they are and 120 01:04:32,250 --> 01:04:34,166 bring them forward so they're successful. 121 01:04:34,958 --> 01:04:37,708 So what should we need to know about 122 01:04:37,708 --> 01:04:39,500 African American students? 123 01:04:40,041 --> 01:04:42,791 Okay, that's a good 124 01:04:42,791 --> 01:04:44,166 question, that's a solid question. 125 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,416 I mean, in a sense to me, it's both. 126 01:04:49,875 --> 01:04:51,250 Yes, you need to know about African 127 01:04:51,250 --> 01:04:52,375 American students and 128 01:04:52,375 --> 01:04:54,625 some distinguishing factors, okay? 129 01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,208 And history makes a big, history lays out 130 01:05:01,208 --> 01:05:02,916 a lot too of your culture and 131 01:05:03,041 --> 01:05:04,000 your situation and your 132 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,416 perspective, all right? 133 01:05:06,333 --> 01:05:08,000 And what African Americans do, you gotta 134 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,875 understand they all don't come with 135 01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:12,500 a standard background, right? 136 01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:14,916 They don't come all prepared for physics 137 01:05:14,916 --> 01:05:16,541 or material science. 138 01:05:17,916 --> 01:05:22,750 They come as raw material, okay? 139 01:05:22,875 --> 01:05:26,791 Meaning like, okay, in the raw, but if 140 01:05:26,791 --> 01:05:29,958 you're able to process this some and 141 01:05:30,041 --> 01:05:30,791 deal with this some, 142 01:05:30,791 --> 01:05:32,666 you'll be able to refine it and 143 01:05:32,666 --> 01:05:34,208 get it to where it needs to be in. 144 01:05:34,833 --> 01:05:35,541 And that means, okay, 145 01:05:35,791 --> 01:05:37,875 some have other issues, 146 01:05:38,791 --> 01:05:40,291 non-academic issues that 147 01:05:40,291 --> 01:05:42,500 affect their academics, okay? 148 01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,166 And then there's some come 149 01:05:44,166 --> 01:05:46,583 just solid, straightforward. 150 01:05:48,541 --> 01:05:50,166 But a good thing you need to know is that 151 01:05:50,166 --> 01:05:54,708 we are relational people, all right? 152 01:05:55,416 --> 01:05:56,416 African Americans are 153 01:05:56,416 --> 01:05:57,375 relational mean like, 154 01:05:58,333 --> 01:05:59,791 I'm not gonna really get to know you or 155 01:05:59,791 --> 01:06:04,166 feel belong unless I feel you out for 156 01:06:04,166 --> 01:06:06,250 my good, for my 157 01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:07,833 improvement, my betterment. 158 01:06:08,958 --> 01:06:11,458 And that takes an opportunity to get to 159 01:06:11,458 --> 01:06:13,500 know you more than just in the classroom, 160 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:14,125 okay? 161 01:06:14,541 --> 01:06:17,166 But I begin to know you from the 162 01:06:17,166 --> 01:06:18,916 classroom, your classroom dynamics, 163 01:06:19,083 --> 01:06:20,750 from your classroom perspectives, from 164 01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:22,666 your classroom assignments, 165 01:06:23,041 --> 01:06:26,333 from how you would engage with me as I'm 166 01:06:26,333 --> 01:06:27,833 watching you engage with other students 167 01:06:28,041 --> 01:06:28,833 too, okay? 168 01:06:29,791 --> 01:06:32,125 Are you just being, are you giving me a 169 01:06:32,125 --> 01:06:33,416 special kind of way and 170 01:06:33,625 --> 01:06:34,708 giving other students 171 01:06:34,708 --> 01:06:35,708 another kind of way? 172 01:06:35,708 --> 01:06:37,916 No, no, if you're gonna, if all of us are 173 01:06:37,916 --> 01:06:39,875 your students, give us all the same way, 174 01:06:40,375 --> 01:06:42,375 okay? If you're gonna be hard on me, 175 01:06:42,375 --> 01:06:43,500 you'd be hard on everybody. 176 01:06:43,916 --> 01:06:46,000 You're gonna be, give this 177 01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,375 student some opportunities, 178 01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:48,875 give all your students opportunities. 179 01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:54,500 So just come with a consistent approach 180 01:06:54,500 --> 01:06:55,833 and a consistent year. 181 01:06:56,208 --> 01:06:58,000 And that begins to open, allows me as an 182 01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,791 African American student to wanna open up 183 01:07:00,583 --> 01:07:02,250 and get to know you more as a professor 184 01:07:02,250 --> 01:07:04,916 and respect you in that regard. 185 01:07:05,583 --> 01:07:09,833 So, yes, it's not as 186 01:07:09,833 --> 01:07:11,416 difficult as it sounds. 187 01:07:12,125 --> 01:07:16,583 It really is being consistent and being 188 01:07:16,583 --> 01:07:18,958 genuine to all students, 189 01:07:19,166 --> 01:07:20,291 and especially African 190 01:07:20,291 --> 01:07:21,208 American students too. 191 01:07:21,250 --> 01:07:24,083 And that way we will see that we're part 192 01:07:24,083 --> 01:07:25,916 of your group of students, period. 193 01:07:28,666 --> 01:07:29,041 That's great. 194 01:07:29,708 --> 01:07:33,041 And so you've been at Morehouse and now 195 01:07:33,041 --> 01:07:34,750 you're at Morgan State. 196 01:07:35,625 --> 01:07:38,708 And you've been dealing with students who 197 01:07:38,708 --> 01:07:40,041 come from, like you said, 198 01:07:40,041 --> 01:07:42,750 a very wide range of backgrounds. 199 01:07:43,541 --> 01:07:46,625 Some of these backgrounds are really 200 01:07:46,625 --> 01:07:48,041 backgrounds that are pretty tough. 201 01:07:48,583 --> 01:07:49,916 Students who come from very 202 01:07:49,916 --> 01:07:54,125 underprivileged economically and also 203 01:07:54,125 --> 01:07:57,666 dangerous childhoods with... 204 01:07:59,333 --> 01:08:03,500 So how do you help the students who come 205 01:08:03,500 --> 01:08:05,166 from the worst backgrounds? 206 01:08:06,291 --> 01:08:07,958 How do you, do you engage the other 207 01:08:07,958 --> 01:08:09,291 students to help you? 208 01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:14,541 From what I saw, the whole ethos of the 209 01:08:14,541 --> 01:08:17,791 institution is all around helping others. 210 01:08:18,416 --> 01:08:19,916 I'll never forget the first 211 01:08:19,916 --> 01:08:23,083 NSBE meeting I went to at AUC. 212 01:08:23,583 --> 01:08:24,458 There's a woman from 213 01:08:24,458 --> 01:08:27,291 Spelman who is the president. 214 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,833 The room was packed and 215 01:08:29,833 --> 01:08:31,333 they started by saying, 216 01:08:31,333 --> 01:08:33,625 "Well, we're gonna start this by standing 217 01:08:33,625 --> 01:08:35,500 up and reciting our mission." 218 01:08:36,208 --> 01:08:37,958 And I'm like thinking, "Oh my God, that's 219 01:08:37,958 --> 01:08:39,375 ridiculous. Who cares 220 01:08:39,375 --> 01:08:40,416 about mission statements?" 221 01:08:40,791 --> 01:08:43,916 And then I heard it and I was so moved. 222 01:08:43,958 --> 01:08:47,458 It was almost religious because their 223 01:08:47,458 --> 01:08:48,416 mission statement was 224 01:08:48,416 --> 01:08:49,916 all about reaching down 225 01:08:50,208 --> 01:08:51,833 and helping their brothers and sisters 226 01:08:51,833 --> 01:08:54,625 have the opportunities that they've been 227 01:08:54,625 --> 01:08:56,250 blessed to have themselves. 228 01:08:57,583 --> 01:08:58,875 It's like, that was powerful. 229 01:08:59,666 --> 01:09:00,666 Now this doesn't happen. 230 01:09:01,291 --> 01:09:02,916 I mean, it might happen at NSBE meetings 231 01:09:02,916 --> 01:09:06,791 here, but it's not part of our ethos the 232 01:09:06,791 --> 01:09:08,750 way it is at an HBCU. 233 01:09:10,333 --> 01:09:12,958 So maybe at an HBCU, how you leverage 234 01:09:12,958 --> 01:09:15,875 that to help the students with the most 235 01:09:15,875 --> 01:09:17,250 disadvantaged backgrounds, 236 01:09:17,250 --> 01:09:18,625 the students who are further 237 01:09:18,625 --> 01:09:20,958 behind in your physics class. 238 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,416 Well, you hit some of the good points in 239 01:09:28,416 --> 01:09:29,083 bringing them along. 240 01:09:29,375 --> 01:09:32,291 Part of it is to bring someone along, 241 01:09:32,291 --> 01:09:34,291 they need to belong, to 242 01:09:34,291 --> 01:09:35,458 bring them along, right? 243 01:09:36,041 --> 01:09:41,333 And to do so, you gotta see what areas 244 01:09:41,333 --> 01:09:42,833 that they would fit in. 245 01:09:42,833 --> 01:09:45,000 What areas they seem to 246 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,458 have some connection to. 247 01:09:47,958 --> 01:09:50,875 And so one of the things I always do to 248 01:09:50,875 --> 01:09:52,333 help my students with 249 01:09:52,333 --> 01:09:53,625 different backgrounds, 250 01:09:54,750 --> 01:09:56,500 the worst ones and even some with the 251 01:09:56,500 --> 01:09:57,750 better ones, you can say, 252 01:09:58,333 --> 01:09:59,791 I always pull them into my 253 01:09:59,791 --> 01:10:01,000 office and have a one-on-one. 254 01:10:01,958 --> 01:10:03,875 A one-on-one and I 255 01:10:03,875 --> 01:10:04,916 listen to them carefully. 256 01:10:05,125 --> 01:10:06,125 I ask my basic 257 01:10:06,125 --> 01:10:09,166 question, what's your passion? 258 01:10:10,458 --> 01:10:11,708 Where do you see yourself? 259 01:10:12,291 --> 01:10:16,000 You 18, 19, maybe 20, add 10 years to 260 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,125 yourself and what do 261 01:10:17,125 --> 01:10:19,000 you see yourself doing? 262 01:10:20,333 --> 01:10:21,708 So I try to drive home, 263 01:10:21,708 --> 01:10:22,958 find out what their passion is. 264 01:10:22,958 --> 01:10:24,500 And then I say, okay, well then once they 265 01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:26,583 start talking and some of 266 01:10:26,583 --> 01:10:27,916 them may say, I don't know. 267 01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:30,125 I say, okay, but what do you like? 268 01:10:31,041 --> 01:10:33,708 Okay, so I keep the 269 01:10:33,708 --> 01:10:35,916 question around them, okay? 270 01:10:36,208 --> 01:10:39,291 And as they engage with me, I listen 271 01:10:39,291 --> 01:10:41,666 intently and I make mental notes, 272 01:10:41,666 --> 01:10:44,125 mental notes, what is unique with them. 273 01:10:44,625 --> 01:10:46,708 And so therefore, as I'm 274 01:10:46,708 --> 01:10:47,916 going into the classroom, 275 01:10:49,291 --> 01:10:52,041 I try to make sure I'm pointing certain 276 01:10:52,041 --> 01:10:53,375 opportunities and certain, 277 01:10:55,458 --> 01:10:57,958 even some certain material that may 278 01:10:57,958 --> 01:11:00,208 overlap their background. 279 01:11:00,250 --> 01:11:01,916 So I don't necessarily call them out on 280 01:11:01,916 --> 01:11:03,333 the spot, but I give them 281 01:11:03,333 --> 01:11:05,625 opportunity to respond to me. 282 01:11:06,125 --> 01:11:07,916 So when we are talking 283 01:11:07,916 --> 01:11:09,416 one-on-one in my office, 284 01:11:10,708 --> 01:11:12,625 I also share with them some of my 285 01:11:12,625 --> 01:11:13,708 personal challenges. 286 01:11:14,333 --> 01:11:15,958 I have to keep reminding them, like, 287 01:11:15,958 --> 01:11:16,541 look, you're seeing 288 01:11:16,541 --> 01:11:18,666 me at a refined state. 289 01:11:19,125 --> 01:11:20,875 I wasn't always this way. 290 01:11:21,541 --> 01:11:24,083 We go through a growth patterns and all 291 01:11:24,083 --> 01:11:26,125 of us, I say, everyone, the professors, 292 01:11:26,583 --> 01:11:28,291 all of us have had our 293 01:11:28,291 --> 01:11:29,583 challenging point too. 294 01:11:29,625 --> 01:11:32,875 I say, but every last one of us also has 295 01:11:32,875 --> 01:11:35,833 someone who was like a champion for us, 296 01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:38,625 someone who helped us along and they 297 01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:39,708 didn't have, they didn't have, 298 01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:40,625 it was, they didn't 299 01:11:40,625 --> 01:11:41,708 have nothing behind it. 300 01:11:41,708 --> 01:11:42,708 You know, they didn't have any hidden 301 01:11:42,708 --> 01:11:43,791 agendas or anything. 302 01:11:44,208 --> 01:11:46,458 They wanted to help you, they wanted to 303 01:11:46,458 --> 01:11:49,291 help me and help us become the best 304 01:11:49,291 --> 01:11:50,291 people we can become. 305 01:11:51,125 --> 01:11:51,250 Okay. 306 01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:53,125 And I say, and that's the same thing I'm 307 01:11:53,125 --> 01:11:54,000 trying to do for you. 308 01:11:54,416 --> 01:11:56,791 I want to give you my support. 309 01:11:57,041 --> 01:11:59,666 I say, but I'm also, I'm also expecting 310 01:11:59,666 --> 01:12:02,458 you to put forth your best effort. 311 01:12:03,083 --> 01:12:05,500 I'm expecting you to let me know when you 312 01:12:05,500 --> 01:12:06,875 need some help or you, 313 01:12:06,875 --> 01:12:08,666 you feel like you can't quite make it or 314 01:12:08,666 --> 01:12:09,833 you just don't know, 315 01:12:09,833 --> 01:12:10,708 or you just want to sit 316 01:12:10,708 --> 01:12:11,791 down and just want to chat. 317 01:12:12,291 --> 01:12:12,500 Okay. 318 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,500 So I make sure that they're engaged and 319 01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:16,875 they don't see me as this. 320 01:12:16,875 --> 01:12:18,958 I'm the one, you know, some savior to 321 01:12:18,958 --> 01:12:20,333 solve all their problems, 322 01:12:20,333 --> 01:12:22,500 but I also help them to see that, hey, I 323 01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:24,833 am a resource for you to be here, 324 01:12:24,875 --> 01:12:25,791 to help you out. 325 01:12:26,666 --> 01:12:28,000 And you got to take advantage of it, you 326 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:29,208 know, as best as we can. 327 01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:32,041 And so when they start feeling that after 328 01:12:32,041 --> 01:12:33,250 a couple of meetings, 329 01:12:33,958 --> 01:12:35,666 they begin to start really, I mean, I saw 330 01:12:35,666 --> 01:12:36,708 some, I saw seeing 331 01:12:36,708 --> 01:12:37,666 them really, really grow. 332 01:12:39,333 --> 01:12:40,083 That's awesome. 333 01:12:41,125 --> 01:12:44,708 And when I saw you teach in the 334 01:12:44,708 --> 01:12:45,875 classroom, you were 335 01:12:45,875 --> 01:12:47,541 tough on those students, 336 01:12:47,833 --> 01:12:48,500 really tough. 337 01:12:48,708 --> 01:12:50,125 And it was uniform, all of them. 338 01:12:50,166 --> 01:12:53,291 But when I walked out and talked to the 339 01:12:53,291 --> 01:12:55,166 students, they all loved you 340 01:12:55,166 --> 01:12:57,708 and they loved you because you love them. 341 01:12:58,625 --> 01:13:00,833 And so I walked, what I got from that is 342 01:13:00,833 --> 01:13:03,541 you had this pedagogy of tough love. 343 01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:06,958 And I just think that was amazing. 344 01:13:07,291 --> 01:13:09,666 And I wish I could do what you did. 345 01:13:10,625 --> 01:13:12,958 And so any advice for how 346 01:13:12,958 --> 01:13:15,000 to be tough on your students 347 01:13:15,291 --> 01:13:16,541 and still make sure that they 348 01:13:16,541 --> 01:13:18,291 love you, that you love them. 349 01:13:18,416 --> 01:13:20,583 How do you communicate that you love 350 01:13:20,583 --> 01:13:21,541 them, even though 351 01:13:21,541 --> 01:13:22,833 you're being tough on them? 352 01:13:23,791 --> 01:13:27,250 Oh, I don't know my secret sauce yet on 353 01:13:27,250 --> 01:13:30,583 that one, but I give you some tough love. 354 01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:33,250 Well, to me, it's like, you know, I try 355 01:13:33,250 --> 01:13:34,416 to make sure they know. 356 01:13:35,250 --> 01:13:36,666 Okay, this one thing I always tell them 357 01:13:36,666 --> 01:13:39,125 too, is I tell them I have a motto. 358 01:13:39,625 --> 01:13:41,666 I say my motto from all of 359 01:13:41,666 --> 01:13:44,958 my classes is hard, but fair. 360 01:13:46,083 --> 01:13:47,166 I say hard, but fair. 361 01:13:47,208 --> 01:13:48,291 And I say really, I'm 362 01:13:48,291 --> 01:13:49,458 not really that fair. 363 01:13:50,583 --> 01:13:51,583 And they were like, what you mean? 364 01:13:51,583 --> 01:13:52,916 I said, well, you really want me to be 365 01:13:52,916 --> 01:13:55,125 fair to you because if I be fair, fair, 366 01:13:55,666 --> 01:13:57,333 that means I only give you what you made 367 01:13:57,333 --> 01:14:01,625 or what it is or what the facts say. 368 01:14:01,625 --> 01:14:04,000 I say, but I also look at, you know, I 369 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,875 weigh in you as a person. 370 01:14:07,291 --> 01:14:07,625 Okay. 371 01:14:07,625 --> 01:14:08,541 I weigh in your effort. 372 01:14:08,541 --> 01:14:09,833 I weigh in all those things, those 373 01:14:09,833 --> 01:14:11,791 factors that, you know, 374 01:14:12,666 --> 01:14:13,958 I say, and to be honest with you, a lot 375 01:14:13,958 --> 01:14:15,083 of professors do that. 376 01:14:15,125 --> 01:14:17,250 We look at our students, you 377 01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:18,875 know, from where you've come, 378 01:14:18,875 --> 01:14:20,791 we look at your trend and how you've 379 01:14:20,791 --> 01:14:22,500 grown in this class. 380 01:14:24,333 --> 01:14:25,708 So I say, but I say, but 381 01:14:25,708 --> 01:14:27,083 what I will do for one of you, 382 01:14:27,666 --> 01:14:29,791 I will do for every last one of you all. 383 01:14:30,375 --> 01:14:31,500 But that also means I 384 01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:33,083 will not do for one of you. 385 01:14:33,500 --> 01:14:34,708 I won't do for nobody. 386 01:14:35,250 --> 01:14:35,458 Okay. 387 01:14:35,708 --> 01:14:37,500 I say, so you can count on me being that. 388 01:14:38,083 --> 01:14:38,291 Okay. 389 01:14:38,750 --> 01:14:42,083 And I say, and then I try to help them 390 01:14:42,083 --> 01:14:43,166 also grow out of their, 391 01:14:43,208 --> 01:14:44,791 out of their, the me, the 392 01:14:44,791 --> 01:14:46,375 me myself and I mindset. 393 01:14:47,250 --> 01:14:48,333 But I say, I said, okay. 394 01:14:48,791 --> 01:14:49,708 I say, you got to remember this. 395 01:14:49,708 --> 01:14:51,416 I say, you got, you got to learn to 396 01:14:51,416 --> 01:14:53,041 follow the lead of your 397 01:14:53,041 --> 01:14:54,541 professor or the lead of 398 01:14:54,541 --> 01:14:57,208 whoever's in charge or responsible for 399 01:14:57,208 --> 01:14:59,500 this class or whatever it may be. 400 01:14:59,500 --> 01:15:00,541 It may be on your job. 401 01:15:00,541 --> 01:15:00,791 Okay. 402 01:15:01,375 --> 01:15:03,833 I say, you got to understand, especially 403 01:15:03,833 --> 01:15:06,208 in the class, that we as professors, 404 01:15:06,958 --> 01:15:07,583 first of all, this is 405 01:15:07,583 --> 01:15:09,333 not our first rodeo. 406 01:15:09,333 --> 01:15:10,416 This is not our first time teaching this 407 01:15:10,416 --> 01:15:11,375 class in most cases. 408 01:15:12,166 --> 01:15:13,708 I said, but the bottom line, even if it 409 01:15:13,708 --> 01:15:15,083 is our first time teaching the class, 410 01:15:15,666 --> 01:15:16,500 we know what we're 411 01:15:16,500 --> 01:15:17,333 going to put on the exam. 412 01:15:19,125 --> 01:15:20,416 We know what we know what 413 01:15:20,416 --> 01:15:22,041 the class is going to look like 414 01:15:22,083 --> 01:15:23,916 from the, for the whole length of the, of 415 01:15:23,916 --> 01:15:25,083 the, of the semester. 416 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:27,625 I say, you don't. 417 01:15:27,625 --> 01:15:28,958 I say, so what you gotta 418 01:15:28,958 --> 01:15:30,291 do, you got to lean on mine. 419 01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,083 Okay. 420 01:15:31,083 --> 01:15:31,750 You on that. 421 01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:31,958 Okay. 422 01:15:32,625 --> 01:15:33,625 So you got to get in my 423 01:15:33,625 --> 01:15:35,000 mindset as a professor. 424 01:15:35,708 --> 01:15:37,416 I say, so when you start thinking about 425 01:15:37,416 --> 01:15:38,500 it from that perspective, 426 01:15:40,250 --> 01:15:41,833 you will be able to start listening to me 427 01:15:41,833 --> 01:15:43,416 and picking up on me and picking up on 428 01:15:43,416 --> 01:15:44,083 stuff that I'm really 429 01:15:44,083 --> 01:15:46,208 emphasizing and things like that. 430 01:15:46,208 --> 01:15:47,041 And some stuff that I'm 431 01:15:47,041 --> 01:15:48,958 telling you, Hey, go and finish that. 432 01:15:49,166 --> 01:15:50,791 You know, that's, that's like a hint 433 01:15:50,791 --> 01:15:52,666 saying you're going to see that again. 434 01:15:53,375 --> 01:15:56,375 And so, so, um, so I kind of 435 01:15:56,375 --> 01:15:57,416 coached them along the way. 436 01:15:58,791 --> 01:16:00,250 And when, when we outside of the 437 01:16:00,250 --> 01:16:02,375 classroom, they see the same guy. 438 01:16:03,250 --> 01:16:05,500 They don't see somebody who I, I look 439 01:16:05,500 --> 01:16:06,875 down on them, um, or anything like that. 440 01:16:06,916 --> 01:16:09,500 You know, I, I mean, I keep 441 01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:10,583 them in the proper perspective. 442 01:16:11,166 --> 01:16:12,375 They do address me by my 443 01:16:12,375 --> 01:16:14,583 title, doc, you know, you know, Dr. 444 01:16:14,583 --> 01:16:14,916 Rockward. 445 01:16:15,250 --> 01:16:16,375 Well, most of them can't 446 01:16:16,375 --> 01:16:17,583 call me by my last name. 447 01:16:17,791 --> 01:16:19,833 You know, so they just call me Dr. 448 01:16:20,083 --> 01:16:20,291 Rock. 449 01:16:20,541 --> 01:16:20,833 Okay. 450 01:16:20,833 --> 01:16:21,666 And I told them that's fine. 451 01:16:21,666 --> 01:16:22,541 That's fine like that. 452 01:16:22,541 --> 01:16:25,750 But, you know, and we, we have a mutual 453 01:16:25,750 --> 01:16:28,208 respect, a professional mutual respect, 454 01:16:28,666 --> 01:16:29,708 both in the classroom 455 01:16:29,708 --> 01:16:30,750 and outside the classroom. 456 01:16:30,750 --> 01:16:32,833 Now, yes, in the classroom, I got some 457 01:16:32,833 --> 01:16:34,375 rules and regulations and like one of my 458 01:16:35,375 --> 01:16:37,875 rules, especially at Morehouse and even 459 01:16:37,875 --> 01:16:40,125 brought up here at Morgan in our 460 01:16:40,125 --> 01:16:40,833 physical class, you 461 01:16:40,833 --> 01:16:41,833 can't write in a pencil. 462 01:16:42,666 --> 01:16:44,583 They know if I see a pencil hanging out 463 01:16:44,583 --> 01:16:46,000 your book bag, I'm going 464 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:47,000 to kick you out my class. 465 01:16:48,458 --> 01:16:49,208 And they're like, what? 466 01:16:49,583 --> 01:16:50,208 I say, yes. 467 01:16:50,541 --> 01:16:52,666 I said, because in the physics arena, we, 468 01:16:52,875 --> 01:16:54,375 we've learned to write things down. 469 01:16:54,375 --> 01:16:55,958 So we, we learn to be intentional in our 470 01:16:55,958 --> 01:16:58,208 thoughts and we try to be careful. 471 01:16:58,208 --> 01:17:00,625 And then so we, so when we write in pen, 472 01:17:01,291 --> 01:17:03,083 if we make a mistake, we just draw a line 473 01:17:03,125 --> 01:17:05,208 through it and it's all right to the left 474 01:17:05,208 --> 01:17:06,125 or to the right, because 475 01:17:06,125 --> 01:17:08,916 sometimes we think we were 476 01:17:08,916 --> 01:17:09,166 right. 477 01:17:09,458 --> 01:17:11,583 We were doing something wrong, but we 478 01:17:11,583 --> 01:17:12,708 actually was doing it right. 479 01:17:13,041 --> 01:17:14,541 But if you scratch it out and you use a 480 01:17:14,541 --> 01:17:15,333 pencil, you're going to 481 01:17:15,333 --> 01:17:16,333 erase and you won't have 482 01:17:16,333 --> 01:17:17,291 nothing to compare it to. 483 01:17:17,958 --> 01:17:18,916 I said, so in physics, we're 484 01:17:18,916 --> 01:17:20,000 not afraid to make mistakes. 485 01:17:20,833 --> 01:17:22,166 We learn from our mistakes. 486 01:17:22,791 --> 01:17:23,833 I said, and that's what we want to keep 487 01:17:23,833 --> 01:17:25,666 driving home, driving with you. 488 01:17:25,916 --> 01:17:27,375 Don't be afraid to make mistakes. 489 01:17:27,375 --> 01:17:28,666 Now some mistakes you shouldn't be making 490 01:17:28,666 --> 01:17:29,541 because you saw them. 491 01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:30,833 Other people make those mistakes. 492 01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:31,791 Right. 493 01:17:32,166 --> 01:17:33,708 I say, so some stuff you should not be 494 01:17:33,708 --> 01:17:34,750 doing, but there's some, 495 01:17:34,750 --> 01:17:35,791 there's some new mistakes 496 01:17:35,791 --> 01:17:37,458 to be made because there's some new 497 01:17:37,458 --> 01:17:38,500 problems to be solved. 498 01:17:39,250 --> 01:17:40,875 And so, and so when they start seeing 499 01:17:40,875 --> 01:17:42,000 that perspective and I 500 01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:43,541 even share with them some 501 01:17:43,541 --> 01:17:44,541 of the mistakes that I've 502 01:17:44,541 --> 01:17:46,333 even made in my personal life. 503 01:17:46,625 --> 01:17:47,000 Okay. 504 01:17:47,833 --> 01:17:50,333 Along the way where I'm at now and 505 01:17:50,333 --> 01:17:51,583 they're like, wow, Dr. 506 01:17:51,583 --> 01:17:52,000 Rock, right? 507 01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,166 I said, no, I'm not perfect. 508 01:17:53,958 --> 01:17:55,208 I'm human like you. 509 01:17:55,708 --> 01:17:56,708 I still make mistakes. 510 01:17:56,708 --> 01:17:58,166 And I said, but I said, that's just some 511 01:17:58,166 --> 01:17:59,416 stuff I've grown past. 512 01:18:00,125 --> 01:18:02,416 And, and so they, they, they opens them 513 01:18:02,416 --> 01:18:03,166 up and they get the 514 01:18:03,166 --> 01:18:04,541 chance to see me as a human, 515 01:18:05,291 --> 01:18:07,666 a human as I've grown and matured on my 516 01:18:07,666 --> 01:18:08,875 pathway and that 517 01:18:08,875 --> 01:18:10,000 they're more, they're more 518 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,000 susceptible and willing to jump on their 519 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,458 pathway, which may not be a common one. 520 01:18:15,833 --> 01:18:18,583 So I try to, so I'm trying to motivate 521 01:18:18,583 --> 01:18:20,916 them as I also, you know, push them. 522 01:18:21,333 --> 01:18:22,833 And I think that, I think that's that 523 01:18:22,833 --> 01:18:23,666 mixture of tough love. 524 01:18:24,041 --> 01:18:26,333 So they, they, they're willing to, 525 01:18:26,333 --> 01:18:26,916 they're willing to 526 01:18:26,916 --> 01:18:28,750 receive the correction and the 527 01:18:29,041 --> 01:18:29,958 toughness of behind me 528 01:18:29,958 --> 01:18:31,541 because they know I love them. 529 01:18:32,208 --> 01:18:32,416 Right. 530 01:18:32,625 --> 01:18:33,125 You know what I'm saying? 531 01:18:33,125 --> 01:18:34,041 They not care about them. 532 01:18:34,458 --> 01:18:38,750 So, and you reveal your human side and 533 01:18:38,750 --> 01:18:39,666 you don't do that unless 534 01:18:39,666 --> 01:18:41,166 you really love somebody. 535 01:18:41,583 --> 01:18:41,958 Yes. 536 01:18:42,375 --> 01:18:42,500 Yes. 537 01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:45,166 So that's, that's really awesome. 538 01:18:45,208 --> 01:18:52,833 So, at our institution, you know, we're 539 01:18:52,833 --> 01:18:55,916 involved in a new DEI effort. 540 01:18:56,583 --> 01:18:58,541 I actually was on a listening panel 541 01:18:58,541 --> 01:19:03,500 talking about their new DEI 2.0. 542 01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:06,166 And I got a little upset at people 543 01:19:06,166 --> 01:19:08,000 because it's written 544 01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,000 like "administratium." 545 01:19:11,208 --> 01:19:12,625 It's like, here's what we're 546 01:19:12,625 --> 01:19:14,041 going to do for recruiting. 547 01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:15,625 Here's what we're 548 01:19:15,625 --> 01:19:16,875 going to do for retention. 549 01:19:17,875 --> 01:19:20,583 And I'm like, wait a minute, hold on. 550 01:19:21,500 --> 01:19:22,916 You know, first of all, and then the 551 01:19:22,916 --> 01:19:24,458 pathway for each of these 552 01:19:24,458 --> 01:19:27,791 things was talks and training. 553 01:19:28,416 --> 01:19:30,458 And I'm like, why is the knee jerk 554 01:19:30,458 --> 01:19:33,375 reaction for academia to solve every 555 01:19:33,375 --> 01:19:34,750 problem with a lecture? 556 01:19:36,541 --> 01:19:38,875 It's like, why are you even doing that? 557 01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:41,500 Why don't you focus on what is the 558 01:19:41,500 --> 01:19:44,000 problem and how are we going to solve it? 559 01:19:44,583 --> 01:19:47,291 I said, how can you talk about recruiting 560 01:19:47,291 --> 01:19:49,375 when we have a large 561 01:19:49,375 --> 01:19:50,833 number of African-American 562 01:19:51,041 --> 01:19:53,666 students who have told us that they don't 563 01:19:53,666 --> 01:19:54,750 feel like they belong? 564 01:19:56,375 --> 01:19:58,125 Don't we have to work on that first? 565 01:19:59,625 --> 01:20:02,416 Because who's the best people to recruit? 566 01:20:03,291 --> 01:20:04,125 It's students. 567 01:20:04,625 --> 01:20:04,958 Yes, that's true. 568 01:20:04,958 --> 01:20:07,666 Right now, we've been told that sometimes 569 01:20:07,666 --> 01:20:09,208 some students will go to 570 01:20:09,208 --> 01:20:10,833 NSBE, and NSBE students will 571 01:20:10,833 --> 01:20:11,833 say, "Oh, don't come here. 572 01:20:12,333 --> 01:20:13,625 This is not a good environment." 573 01:20:14,791 --> 01:20:16,416 It used to be better. It used to be 574 01:20:16,416 --> 01:20:18,333 really good. And we're struggling. 575 01:20:18,625 --> 01:20:21,916 And so I stood up and said, you need to 576 01:20:21,916 --> 01:20:23,125 solve this problem first. 577 01:20:24,083 --> 01:20:27,750 You need to understand why they don't 578 01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:28,833 feel like they belong, 579 01:20:28,833 --> 01:20:30,833 and we need to correct that. 580 01:20:31,375 --> 01:20:32,791 And you shouldn't give faculty 581 01:20:32,791 --> 01:20:35,208 credit for going to DEI talks. 582 01:20:35,875 --> 01:20:37,833 You should give faculty credit for doing 583 01:20:37,833 --> 01:20:39,291 direct action things. 584 01:20:40,250 --> 01:20:42,666 How many underrepresented minorities are 585 01:20:42,666 --> 01:20:45,791 they including in their research lab? 586 01:20:46,875 --> 01:20:47,666 How many recruiting 587 01:20:47,666 --> 01:20:49,541 trips are they going on? 588 01:20:50,666 --> 01:20:52,958 How many students are they mentoring who 589 01:20:52,958 --> 01:20:54,125 are underrepresented? 590 01:20:54,125 --> 01:20:55,958 This is true for all... It's not just 591 01:20:55,958 --> 01:20:58,000 African-Americans. It's all of our 592 01:20:58,708 --> 01:21:01,083 underrepresented minorities. It's also 593 01:21:01,083 --> 01:21:02,333 our transfer students. 594 01:21:02,333 --> 01:21:04,083 They're really at risk. They come in and 595 01:21:04,083 --> 01:21:05,083 they don't know anybody. 596 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:09,833 And so I've been trying to focus them on 597 01:21:09,833 --> 01:21:10,875 doing things that I think 598 01:21:10,875 --> 01:21:12,250 are important, which is, 599 01:21:13,041 --> 01:21:14,458 what can we do to make our 600 01:21:14,458 --> 01:21:16,083 students feel more welcome? 601 01:21:17,291 --> 01:21:22,791 And this is kind of a problem for us that 602 01:21:22,791 --> 01:21:24,625 you don't really have, I don't think, 603 01:21:25,291 --> 01:21:27,541 at an HBCU, because the whole institution 604 01:21:27,541 --> 01:21:29,000 is focused on making 605 01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:30,708 everybody feel welcome. 606 01:21:31,583 --> 01:21:35,625 But then they come here and we blow it. 607 01:21:37,125 --> 01:21:38,625 So what advice do you have 608 01:21:38,625 --> 01:21:40,666 for us so we don't blow it? 609 01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:45,166 How can we make our students feel welcome 610 01:21:45,166 --> 01:21:47,166 across the whole institution? 611 01:21:48,750 --> 01:21:52,750 Wow. Wow. That's... Okay. That's gonna 612 01:21:52,750 --> 01:21:53,833 take up the rest of this podcast. 613 01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,041 But I can give you a couple of nuggets. 614 01:21:58,416 --> 01:22:02,375 And you kind of hit one major nugget is 615 01:22:02,375 --> 01:22:04,416 that it has to be intuitionized. 616 01:22:05,541 --> 01:22:08,000 The institution has to see that all of 617 01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:09,708 its students... Okay. 618 01:22:09,708 --> 01:22:11,375 Yes, yes, underrepresented minorities, 619 01:22:11,375 --> 01:22:13,083 but everybody is important. 620 01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:15,875 All of my students are important and my 621 01:22:15,875 --> 01:22:17,500 faculty is important and my 622 01:22:17,500 --> 01:22:19,000 staff is important, right? 623 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,125 Because if we don't have the 624 01:22:21,125 --> 01:22:22,625 infrastructure and support structure, we 625 01:22:22,625 --> 01:22:23,750 can't get our students through. 626 01:22:24,166 --> 01:22:26,083 So all of us are important. All right. 627 01:22:27,583 --> 01:22:29,666 And so one of the biggest things I've 628 01:22:29,666 --> 01:22:31,500 always tried my best to do 629 01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:33,500 and I share with them is okay. 630 01:22:35,125 --> 01:22:37,875 To really help a student feel belong, 631 01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:44,208 it's gonna take extra time. 632 01:22:44,875 --> 01:22:47,458 It's gonna take extra exposure. 633 01:22:48,041 --> 01:22:51,000 It's gonna take you... 634 01:22:51,041 --> 01:22:55,000 You know, they're gonna take a whole 635 01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,208 village to kind of do... 636 01:22:56,875 --> 01:22:58,541 You can't... No one person can do it all, 637 01:22:59,125 --> 01:23:00,500 but as a village, a 638 01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:03,791 collective, we can get it done, right? 639 01:23:04,125 --> 01:23:06,166 Because there's some areas like say you, 640 01:23:06,166 --> 01:23:07,625 Steve, you're very good. 641 01:23:07,625 --> 01:23:10,500 You're very encouraging. You're very 642 01:23:10,500 --> 01:23:12,958 motivational in the sense you... 643 01:24:04,291 --> 01:24:05,333 and not helping me to 644 01:24:05,333 --> 01:24:06,333 understand anything. 645 01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,125 So you're also making ways 646 01:24:08,125 --> 01:24:09,625 and resources for me to help. 647 01:24:10,083 --> 01:24:14,875 So providing resources, provide insight. 648 01:24:15,666 --> 01:24:16,625 And like you say, 649 01:24:16,625 --> 01:24:19,041 sometimes structuring opportunities 650 01:24:19,458 --> 01:24:21,000 for them to get into study groups. 651 01:24:21,833 --> 01:24:22,875 Because if you come 652 01:24:22,875 --> 01:24:24,083 as a transfer student, 653 01:24:24,083 --> 01:24:25,208 or you come in as a dual degree 654 01:24:25,208 --> 01:24:26,375 engineering student who 655 01:24:26,958 --> 01:24:28,958 spent two or three years 656 01:24:28,958 --> 01:24:29,958 at another institution, 657 01:24:29,958 --> 01:24:32,916 now you come into this major institution. 658 01:24:32,916 --> 01:24:34,791 Or even as an undergrad 659 01:24:34,791 --> 01:24:36,041 going to graduate school 660 01:24:36,041 --> 01:24:38,000 at your institution in Michigan. 661 01:24:39,416 --> 01:24:40,750 I'm going to a whole new culture. 662 01:24:40,750 --> 01:24:42,000 I'm going to a whole new environment. 663 01:24:42,500 --> 01:24:45,416 And it's good to have somebody there 664 01:24:45,416 --> 01:24:48,041 who I can relate to and connect to. 665 01:24:48,333 --> 01:24:50,416 And it always has to look like me. 666 01:24:51,416 --> 01:24:52,666 But it'd be good to have something 667 01:24:52,666 --> 01:24:54,958 that does look like me, but also to know 668 01:24:54,958 --> 01:24:56,291 that everyone don't have 669 01:24:56,291 --> 01:24:57,750 to look like you to want you 670 01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:58,625 to be a part of the community. 671 01:25:00,625 --> 01:25:02,666 Yeah, we're just starting some programs. 672 01:25:02,666 --> 01:25:04,875 So in our literature 673 01:25:04,875 --> 01:25:07,000 sciences and arts college, 674 01:25:07,666 --> 01:25:08,875 they have some very 675 01:25:08,875 --> 01:25:11,875 good study group systems 676 01:25:12,041 --> 01:25:14,500 where people can sign up for a time. 677 01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:17,125 And once you have 15 678 01:25:17,125 --> 01:25:19,666 people, that one's closed. 679 01:25:20,750 --> 01:25:23,416 Then they pay a student who 680 01:25:23,416 --> 01:25:25,458 did well in the course, who's 681 01:25:25,500 --> 01:25:26,875 now an upperclassman, 682 01:25:27,833 --> 01:25:29,125 they pay that student 683 01:25:29,208 --> 01:25:31,583 to mentor that study group. 684 01:25:32,250 --> 01:25:33,208 And they do it on Zoom. 685 01:25:33,708 --> 01:25:34,833 So you have no idea 686 01:25:34,833 --> 01:25:36,083 who's in the study group 687 01:25:36,083 --> 01:25:37,125 until you first meet. 688 01:25:37,875 --> 01:25:39,500 But the benefit is you 689 01:25:39,500 --> 01:25:41,708 actually get a student, someone 690 01:25:41,708 --> 01:25:44,291 your age, who knows the material, who 691 01:25:44,333 --> 01:25:47,333 can help drive the conversation. 692 01:25:48,166 --> 01:25:49,291 And I think this is great. 693 01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:50,333 So I've asked if we can 694 01:25:50,333 --> 01:25:51,333 do that in engineering. 695 01:25:51,625 --> 01:25:52,916 And I've actually 696 01:25:52,916 --> 01:25:54,541 gotten a lot of support. 697 01:25:54,541 --> 01:25:56,458 I think the dean's like this idea. 698 01:25:56,916 --> 01:25:58,125 It's not that expensive. 699 01:25:58,916 --> 01:26:01,708 And I actually found out that 700 01:26:01,708 --> 01:26:02,958 some of the other departments 701 01:26:02,958 --> 01:26:04,666 are already doing things like this. 702 01:26:05,125 --> 01:26:06,291 And we're going to do it. 703 01:26:07,375 --> 01:26:08,541 We're just going to use-- 704 01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:10,916 what's that tool called? 705 01:26:12,916 --> 01:26:18,083 My wife did it for when my 706 01:26:18,083 --> 01:26:19,250 kids were in high school. 707 01:26:20,958 --> 01:26:21,750 Signup Genius. 708 01:26:22,708 --> 01:26:24,791 With a free Signup Genius account, 709 01:26:25,166 --> 01:26:25,958 you can have students 710 01:26:25,958 --> 01:26:27,333 sign up for different times. 711 01:26:27,875 --> 01:26:29,166 And it doesn't cost anything. 712 01:26:29,166 --> 01:26:30,583 We just pay the student. 713 01:26:31,041 --> 01:26:35,250 And I love paying undergrads $18 an hour 714 01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,625 to teach other students. 715 01:26:37,625 --> 01:26:38,291 Because it's like the 716 01:26:38,291 --> 01:26:39,375 first time in their life 717 01:26:39,916 --> 01:26:42,208 they ever got paid for what they just 718 01:26:42,208 --> 01:26:43,333 paid all that money for. 719 01:26:43,958 --> 01:26:46,166 And they're actually using what they just 720 01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:48,125 learned and making money. 721 01:26:48,125 --> 01:26:49,708 I think that's a wonderful thing. 722 01:26:50,416 --> 01:26:52,250 And so I do that in my class. 723 01:26:52,250 --> 01:26:53,416 And I'm not going to 724 01:26:53,416 --> 01:26:54,916 convince the other faculty 725 01:26:54,916 --> 01:26:55,791 to do what I do. 726 01:26:55,791 --> 01:26:57,166 But I use team-based teaching. 727 01:26:57,583 --> 01:26:58,833 In all of my classes. 728 01:26:59,541 --> 01:27:01,875 And so I make the teams. 729 01:27:02,166 --> 01:27:04,625 And I make the teams based on the 730 01:27:04,625 --> 01:27:06,000 diversity in the classroom. 731 01:27:06,625 --> 01:27:09,250 Making sure I don't strand a URM. 732 01:27:09,958 --> 01:27:10,541 Make sure there's at 733 01:27:10,541 --> 01:27:11,833 least two or two women. 734 01:27:12,458 --> 01:27:13,291 But we have so much 735 01:27:13,291 --> 01:27:14,583 diversity in our classes. 736 01:27:15,250 --> 01:27:19,041 I teach a class where I have first year 737 01:27:19,083 --> 01:27:20,041 through fourth year. 738 01:27:20,666 --> 01:27:22,583 I teach a class where I have all these 739 01:27:22,583 --> 01:27:23,458 different departments. 740 01:27:24,166 --> 01:27:24,833 This term I'm 741 01:27:24,833 --> 01:27:26,416 teaching an archaeology class 742 01:27:26,625 --> 01:27:28,000 with an archaeology professor. 743 01:27:28,625 --> 01:27:29,666 And so we have people who 744 01:27:29,666 --> 01:27:31,208 are sociology majors, who 745 01:27:31,208 --> 01:27:32,250 are business majors. 746 01:27:32,625 --> 01:27:33,875 Last year I even had one 747 01:27:33,875 --> 01:27:37,166 of the hockey team players 748 01:27:37,500 --> 01:27:39,333 who left in the middle of the term. 749 01:27:39,583 --> 01:27:40,500 Because he got drafted 750 01:27:40,500 --> 01:27:41,708 by the New Jersey Devils. 751 01:27:43,625 --> 01:27:46,083 But when you have all 752 01:27:46,083 --> 01:27:47,208 those different voices, 753 01:27:47,875 --> 01:27:49,000 not only will people 754 01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,416 start to understand and value 755 01:27:51,875 --> 01:27:53,333 diversity for what it can 756 01:27:53,333 --> 01:27:55,083 bring to the success of a team, 757 01:27:55,708 --> 01:27:58,125 it also creates built-in study groups. 758 01:27:58,583 --> 01:28:00,375 Because the team has to stick together. 759 01:28:00,708 --> 01:28:02,583 And I teach them. 760 01:28:02,958 --> 01:28:05,166 And then I hire instructional aides, 761 01:28:05,166 --> 01:28:06,583 which are undergrads, to 762 01:28:06,583 --> 01:28:07,833 help mentor these teams. 763 01:28:08,333 --> 01:28:09,541 And I quickly realized 764 01:28:09,541 --> 01:28:12,083 they should rename it. 765 01:28:12,708 --> 01:28:15,333 IA shouldn't mean instructional aid. 766 01:28:15,333 --> 01:28:17,916 It should be inclusion ambassador. 767 01:28:18,958 --> 01:28:20,125 And what they do is 768 01:28:20,125 --> 01:28:21,500 they watch these teams. 769 01:28:21,958 --> 01:28:22,833 And they're their age. 770 01:28:23,208 --> 01:28:23,958 And I tell everyone 771 01:28:23,958 --> 01:28:24,875 they're going to do this. 772 01:28:25,541 --> 01:28:26,875 If you're an introvert 773 01:28:26,875 --> 01:28:28,041 and you just sit there 774 01:28:28,041 --> 01:28:29,375 and don't say anything, 775 01:28:29,791 --> 01:28:31,500 you're not helping yourself. 776 01:28:32,291 --> 01:28:33,708 No one's going to know that 777 01:28:33,708 --> 01:28:35,041 you have something of value 778 01:28:35,041 --> 01:28:36,875 to give to the rest of the team. 779 01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:39,958 And it goes right back 780 01:28:39,958 --> 01:28:41,208 to your football roots. 781 01:28:42,541 --> 01:28:45,208 We had our coach, Beau Schembechler, 782 01:28:45,791 --> 01:28:47,458 who painted famously on the 783 01:28:47,458 --> 01:28:50,125 tunnel, the team, the team, 784 01:28:50,458 --> 01:28:51,000 the team. 785 01:28:53,250 --> 01:28:54,333 Nothing matters except 786 01:28:54,333 --> 01:28:55,833 the success of the team. 787 01:28:56,375 --> 01:28:56,750 And guess what? 788 01:28:56,791 --> 01:28:57,666 That's where all of our 789 01:28:57,666 --> 01:28:59,125 students end up in industry. 790 01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:01,541 It's all about the team. 791 01:29:01,791 --> 01:29:03,416 And so you have to help the 792 01:29:03,416 --> 01:29:04,833 other members of your team 793 01:29:05,500 --> 01:29:07,083 be the best they can so the 794 01:29:07,083 --> 01:29:08,833 team can be the best they can. 795 01:29:09,958 --> 01:29:11,333 And so they pull the 796 01:29:11,333 --> 01:29:13,375 introverts aside and say, hey, 797 01:29:13,375 --> 01:29:14,833 I know this is tough. 798 01:29:15,458 --> 01:29:16,916 But later on, I'm 799 01:29:16,916 --> 01:29:18,208 going to be calling on you. 800 01:29:18,208 --> 01:29:18,791 And it's not because 801 01:29:18,791 --> 01:29:19,708 I'm trying to be mean. 802 01:29:20,208 --> 01:29:22,625 I just need you to let others know. 803 01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:24,625 You have something valuable to say. 804 01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:26,666 And we do the same with the extroverts. 805 01:29:26,875 --> 01:29:27,875 We tell them, you have 806 01:29:27,875 --> 01:29:28,833 to learn how to listen. 807 01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,625 You can't-- I had a student once. 808 01:29:33,333 --> 01:29:36,125 He got marked down on a project because 809 01:29:36,125 --> 01:29:36,916 all of his teammates 810 01:29:37,041 --> 01:29:37,708 hated him. 811 01:29:38,125 --> 01:29:39,541 And he came up to me. 812 01:29:39,875 --> 01:29:42,833 He goes, I did everything for that team. 813 01:29:42,833 --> 01:29:44,000 It was my idea. 814 01:29:44,416 --> 01:29:45,625 I did all the research. 815 01:29:45,625 --> 01:29:47,041 I built the project. 816 01:29:47,291 --> 01:29:48,750 I was the one who did everything. 817 01:29:49,291 --> 01:29:50,791 And I said, I hear you. 818 01:29:51,041 --> 01:29:51,875 I hear you. 819 01:29:52,208 --> 01:29:52,875 And you didn't let 820 01:29:52,875 --> 01:29:54,500 anyone else do anything. 821 01:29:55,041 --> 01:29:56,791 And they were pretty upset about that. 822 01:29:57,291 --> 01:29:58,833 And so that's why you got marked down 823 01:29:58,833 --> 01:30:00,000 because you didn't let 824 01:30:00,041 --> 01:30:01,166 others have a chance. 825 01:30:01,666 --> 01:30:02,625 And so I'm sorry. 826 01:30:02,625 --> 01:30:04,458 That's a tough lesson to learn this way. 827 01:30:04,458 --> 01:30:06,583 But that's how we do it. 828 01:30:07,666 --> 01:30:10,541 So anyway, there's lots of techniques. 829 01:30:11,375 --> 01:30:13,583 And I wish more faculty were open to-- 830 01:30:13,791 --> 01:30:16,083 I mean, it comes down to what you said. 831 01:30:16,791 --> 01:30:18,500 The institution has to change. 832 01:30:19,083 --> 01:30:19,250 Yes. 833 01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:21,291 How do I convince my 834 01:30:21,291 --> 01:30:23,916 colleagues to do this? 835 01:30:26,208 --> 01:30:29,333 So we get accredited by a group called 836 01:30:29,333 --> 01:30:31,750 ABET for engineering. 837 01:30:32,625 --> 01:30:33,833 And I have a good friend 838 01:30:33,833 --> 01:30:35,750 who's way up high in ABET. 839 01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:39,333 And they're now going through diversity 840 01:30:39,333 --> 01:30:42,333 DEI criteria for ABET. 841 01:30:42,333 --> 01:30:43,333 It's very difficult. 842 01:30:44,333 --> 01:30:45,708 So they haven't quite done it. 843 01:30:46,458 --> 01:30:48,291 But what he told me was really valuable. 844 01:30:48,375 --> 01:30:50,791 He says, listen, it's not 845 01:30:50,791 --> 01:30:54,416 about so much giving people 846 01:30:54,416 --> 01:30:56,500 an unfair advantage or any of that. 847 01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:57,958 It's about the fact 848 01:30:57,958 --> 01:30:59,166 that our students are going 849 01:30:59,166 --> 01:31:00,083 to get an industry. 850 01:31:00,583 --> 01:31:01,208 And they're going to 851 01:31:01,208 --> 01:31:03,125 work with diverse teams. 852 01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:05,500 They have to learn in school 853 01:31:05,500 --> 01:31:08,791 how to work with a diverse team 854 01:31:09,041 --> 01:31:09,958 so they hit the ground 855 01:31:09,958 --> 01:31:11,625 running when they go to industry. 856 01:31:12,166 --> 01:31:13,416 I just thought that was 857 01:31:13,416 --> 01:31:14,750 an interesting perspective. 858 01:31:15,333 --> 01:31:15,625 Yeah. 859 01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,041 That's a full perspective. 860 01:31:17,375 --> 01:31:18,666 You actually look at it. 861 01:31:20,041 --> 01:31:22,041 And diversity of the team 862 01:31:22,041 --> 01:31:24,583 is becoming more than just 863 01:31:24,708 --> 01:31:25,500 national now. 864 01:31:25,708 --> 01:31:26,333 It's global. 865 01:31:27,041 --> 01:31:27,416 Oh, yeah. 866 01:31:27,708 --> 01:31:31,041 You know, the most successful teams 867 01:31:31,833 --> 01:31:34,250 are being very effective 868 01:31:34,250 --> 01:31:36,291 not just in their regional 869 01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,541 or national area. 870 01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:40,125 They're being effective globally in a 871 01:31:40,125 --> 01:31:41,250 variety of countries 872 01:31:41,250 --> 01:31:42,333 and things like that. 873 01:31:42,333 --> 01:31:42,833 So you're right. 874 01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:44,416 He has something. 875 01:31:44,416 --> 01:31:44,958 We got it. 876 01:31:44,958 --> 01:31:46,583 We have to train ourselves, which means 877 01:31:46,708 --> 01:31:48,875 we have to retrain ourselves sometimes. 878 01:31:49,625 --> 01:31:50,083 That's right. 879 01:31:50,916 --> 01:31:52,791 But you just look at football again. 880 01:31:53,583 --> 01:31:54,541 Why did we win the 881 01:31:54,541 --> 01:31:56,166 national championship this year? 882 01:31:56,750 --> 01:31:59,625 We won because we had an amazing defense 883 01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,125 and we had an amazing offense. 884 01:32:02,833 --> 01:32:04,958 And we had all these different players 885 01:32:05,125 --> 01:32:06,833 that had all these different strengths, 886 01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,250 who's incredibly-- you win football games 887 01:32:10,250 --> 01:32:11,708 by having tremendous 888 01:32:11,708 --> 01:32:13,500 diversity where you need it. 889 01:32:14,875 --> 01:32:16,000 And then you make 890 01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,375 sure you play as a team. 891 01:32:19,250 --> 01:32:20,166 That's true. 892 01:32:20,166 --> 01:32:20,583 That's true. 893 01:32:22,791 --> 01:32:24,208 And you just got to 894 01:32:24,208 --> 01:32:25,958 continue to stay at it 895 01:32:26,500 --> 01:32:28,500 and look at the variety that everyone 896 01:32:28,500 --> 01:32:29,458 brings to the table. 897 01:32:30,291 --> 01:32:30,916 I just believe the 898 01:32:30,916 --> 01:32:32,916 institution is going to make a big-- 899 01:32:32,916 --> 01:32:33,833 it has to come from the top. 900 01:32:34,666 --> 01:32:36,708 I think there's going to be 901 01:32:36,708 --> 01:32:38,666 a grassroots movement, too. 902 01:32:40,458 --> 01:32:41,958 But they have to be 903 01:32:41,958 --> 01:32:43,541 able to see that, OK, our-- 904 01:32:43,958 --> 01:32:45,625 at the top, they're 905 01:32:45,625 --> 01:32:48,958 just in support of it, 906 01:32:49,250 --> 01:32:50,083 as well as we're 907 01:32:50,083 --> 01:32:51,083 going through grassroots. 908 01:32:52,625 --> 01:32:54,000 They're making it institutionalized. 909 01:32:54,625 --> 01:32:57,541 And I hope that's happening in Michigan. 910 01:32:58,375 --> 01:33:00,250 I think our new president 911 01:33:00,250 --> 01:33:02,208 is very focused on this. 912 01:33:03,083 --> 01:33:06,125 He's an Asian-American. 913 01:33:06,750 --> 01:33:08,041 And when he was living 914 01:33:08,041 --> 01:33:09,625 and when he was growing up, 915 01:33:10,375 --> 01:33:12,500 he felt lots of racism. 916 01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,791 And it hurt him personally. 917 01:33:14,791 --> 01:33:15,958 And he talks about it. 918 01:33:16,208 --> 01:33:18,000 And so I know he's really committed. 919 01:33:18,916 --> 01:33:21,541 But it's really hard to 920 01:33:21,541 --> 01:33:22,541 change an institution. 921 01:33:25,166 --> 01:33:26,291 It's still really hard. 922 01:33:26,833 --> 01:33:30,041 And I wonder, maybe by 923 01:33:30,041 --> 01:33:32,750 being more engaged with faculty 924 01:33:32,958 --> 01:33:37,166 at HBCUs would help teach our faculty. 925 01:33:38,208 --> 01:33:40,375 I know I learned so much 926 01:33:40,375 --> 01:33:41,833 by going and visiting him 927 01:33:42,333 --> 01:33:44,541 and the other faculty who are down there. 928 01:33:47,125 --> 01:33:48,541 It was really important for 929 01:33:48,541 --> 01:33:50,708 my growth as a human being 930 01:33:51,458 --> 01:33:54,125 to see how powerful that 931 01:33:54,125 --> 01:33:56,000 kind of an institution can be. 932 01:33:57,166 --> 01:33:58,250 And that's one reason I 933 01:33:58,250 --> 01:33:59,541 asked you to be on this podcast, 934 01:33:59,875 --> 01:34:01,791 because hopefully we 935 01:34:01,791 --> 01:34:03,041 can give that to others. 936 01:34:03,625 --> 01:34:07,208 But how can more faculty from 937 01:34:07,208 --> 01:34:09,375 primarily white universities 938 01:34:10,125 --> 01:34:12,291 get involved with faculty there? 939 01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:13,500 And I know there's been 940 01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:16,583 a lot of abuse of white-- 941 01:34:17,875 --> 01:34:20,416 primarily white institutions trying 942 01:34:20,416 --> 01:34:22,666 to get money by at the last minute 943 01:34:22,666 --> 01:34:23,916 partnering on a research 944 01:34:24,041 --> 01:34:25,083 grant and all of that. 945 01:34:25,333 --> 01:34:27,083 And that's not helpful to anybody. 946 01:34:27,625 --> 01:34:29,291 And hopefully our funding institutions 947 01:34:29,541 --> 01:34:30,416 will figure that out. 948 01:34:31,125 --> 01:34:36,958 But how can faculty and especially 949 01:34:36,958 --> 01:34:38,166 materials programs-- 950 01:34:38,541 --> 01:34:39,791 because guess what 951 01:34:39,791 --> 01:34:40,833 kind of graduate students 952 01:34:40,833 --> 01:34:41,791 we love the most? 953 01:34:42,250 --> 01:34:43,000 We love physics 954 01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,458 graduate students or physics 955 01:34:45,541 --> 01:34:47,000 undergrads who can come 956 01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:48,583 in because all the concepts 957 01:34:48,583 --> 01:34:50,041 in material science are either 958 01:34:50,041 --> 01:34:51,958 physics or chemistry concepts. 959 01:34:52,916 --> 01:34:55,541 So most of us come from different fields. 960 01:34:55,541 --> 01:34:56,458 I was a math major. 961 01:34:56,666 --> 01:34:57,625 I was not a material 962 01:34:57,625 --> 01:34:58,625 science undergraduate. 963 01:34:59,500 --> 01:35:01,083 And most of our faculty were 964 01:35:01,083 --> 01:35:02,958 not material science majors. 965 01:35:02,958 --> 01:35:04,791 We were all chemistry or physics. 966 01:35:05,875 --> 01:35:10,875 And so I think we need 967 01:35:10,875 --> 01:35:12,291 really good students. 968 01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:15,833 How can they get engaged 969 01:35:15,833 --> 01:35:17,166 with, say, Morgan State? 970 01:35:19,166 --> 01:35:21,375 I would say that's 971 01:35:21,375 --> 01:35:22,500 something Morgan State is doing. 972 01:35:24,250 --> 01:35:25,791 We made it recently. 973 01:35:26,291 --> 01:35:27,083 Well, the past couple of 974 01:35:27,083 --> 01:35:30,083 years, our president, actually 975 01:35:30,333 --> 01:35:36,125 is into institutional partnerships, where 976 01:35:36,125 --> 01:35:40,333 we're partnering with Purdue University 977 01:35:40,333 --> 01:35:42,791 across institutions. 978 01:35:43,666 --> 01:35:45,875 Not just, say, in our physics departments 979 01:35:45,875 --> 01:35:47,416 or in our engineering departments, 980 01:35:47,416 --> 01:35:50,166 but literally across the institutions 981 01:35:50,166 --> 01:35:51,125 where they're doing a lot 982 01:35:51,125 --> 01:35:52,875 of dual degree programs, 983 01:35:54,791 --> 01:35:55,708 two-way exchanges, 984 01:35:56,500 --> 01:35:57,625 because many of the students 985 01:35:57,625 --> 01:35:58,916 at a predominantly white institution 986 01:35:59,125 --> 01:36:01,125 would love to spend a semester or two 987 01:36:01,416 --> 01:36:04,791 or even do a degree program at an HBCU. 988 01:36:06,416 --> 01:36:08,541 And so things of that nature 989 01:36:08,541 --> 01:36:11,083 is making it much more real 990 01:36:11,500 --> 01:36:12,958 and engaging for the 991 01:36:12,958 --> 01:36:14,541 faculty, because the faculty 992 01:36:14,541 --> 01:36:15,708 at both institutions 993 01:36:15,708 --> 01:36:17,458 need to be in partnership. 994 01:36:18,041 --> 01:36:21,875 We are the infrastructure for our 995 01:36:21,875 --> 01:36:23,083 students that comes in. 996 01:36:23,583 --> 01:36:24,458 The new student comes 997 01:36:24,458 --> 01:36:25,458 into the institution. 998 01:36:26,208 --> 01:36:26,708 They're going to meet 999 01:36:26,708 --> 01:36:28,125 pretty much the same faculty 1000 01:36:28,291 --> 01:36:29,000 within good reason. 1001 01:36:29,833 --> 01:36:30,791 And so the faculty need 1002 01:36:30,791 --> 01:36:34,708 to be connected to HBCUs 1003 01:36:34,708 --> 01:36:37,000 and likewise to PWIs so 1004 01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,416 that we can form a good-- 1005 01:36:39,791 --> 01:36:46,583 I call it a good pipe, a good pipe for a 1006 01:36:46,583 --> 01:36:48,041 very robust pipeline. 1007 01:36:48,625 --> 01:36:49,708 You want a pipeline of students. 1008 01:36:49,916 --> 01:36:51,083 That means in order to 1009 01:36:51,083 --> 01:36:51,833 get the students flowing, 1010 01:36:52,250 --> 01:36:53,458 you need to have a pipe. 1011 01:36:53,708 --> 01:36:55,250 And the pipe is the faculty. 1012 01:36:55,916 --> 01:36:57,541 And so we can continue to 1013 01:36:57,541 --> 01:36:58,791 work together like that. 1014 01:37:00,625 --> 01:37:01,750 We'll be able to give 1015 01:37:01,750 --> 01:37:02,875 our students a lot more 1016 01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:03,458 opportunities. 1017 01:37:04,041 --> 01:37:05,750 And they'll get a sense of belonging. 1018 01:37:06,666 --> 01:37:07,750 Say, like I said, 1019 01:37:08,083 --> 01:37:09,041 underrepresented minority 1020 01:37:09,333 --> 01:37:11,208 coming from HBCU, we get a 1021 01:37:11,208 --> 01:37:12,625 greater sense of belonging 1022 01:37:13,291 --> 01:37:17,416 by already being connected to the PWI 1023 01:37:17,791 --> 01:37:18,958 before they even get there. 1024 01:37:19,208 --> 01:37:19,416 OK. 1025 01:37:19,666 --> 01:37:21,833 And that's how their 1026 01:37:21,833 --> 01:37:24,208 productivity level really 1027 01:37:24,333 --> 01:37:25,208 goes off the roof. 1028 01:37:25,583 --> 01:37:26,500 I mean, you just see 1029 01:37:26,500 --> 01:37:27,666 them really, really blossom. 1030 01:37:28,958 --> 01:37:30,291 Now, NSF has some 1031 01:37:30,291 --> 01:37:31,875 very interesting programs 1032 01:37:31,875 --> 01:37:33,583 to help facilitate some of 1033 01:37:33,583 --> 01:37:34,958 this with our PREM program. 1034 01:37:35,583 --> 01:37:35,791 Yes. 1035 01:37:37,041 --> 01:37:39,041 How does a PWI get 1036 01:37:39,041 --> 01:37:42,583 involved with a minority serving 1037 01:37:42,708 --> 01:37:45,625 institution to start a PREM? 1038 01:37:45,875 --> 01:37:47,250 I presume it's first you 1039 01:37:47,250 --> 01:37:48,791 need good relationships 1040 01:37:49,083 --> 01:37:49,791 with the faculty. 1041 01:37:50,583 --> 01:37:50,791 Yes. 1042 01:37:51,041 --> 01:37:52,000 Yes, that's true. 1043 01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:53,541 I mean, that's what's going 1044 01:37:53,541 --> 01:37:54,833 on with us in Morgan right now. 1045 01:37:54,833 --> 01:37:58,500 We have a PREM grant in materials. 1046 01:38:00,291 --> 01:38:05,875 And so we actually connect with PWIs, 1047 01:38:05,875 --> 01:38:07,375 John Hopkins, Penn State, 1048 01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,375 things like that in different areas. 1049 01:38:40,666 --> 01:38:42,583 and go out and win a lot more grants. 1050 01:38:43,458 --> 01:38:44,125 - That's great. 1051 01:38:44,625 --> 01:38:46,125 Well, we actually-- 1052 01:38:46,125 --> 01:38:46,291 - And they actually gained 1053 01:38:46,291 --> 01:38:47,708 their students a lot too. 1054 01:38:47,708 --> 01:38:48,166 - That's right. 1055 01:38:48,666 --> 01:38:52,333 So we just got a MRSEC that just started 1056 01:38:53,375 --> 01:38:54,333 at three weeks ago. 1057 01:38:54,958 --> 01:38:55,375 - Wow. 1058 01:38:55,375 --> 01:38:57,875 - And it's run by Rachel Goldman. 1059 01:38:59,041 --> 01:39:00,541 And one of Rachel's 1060 01:39:00,541 --> 01:39:04,333 students is Jared Mitchell. 1061 01:39:04,791 --> 01:39:05,250 Remember Jared? 1062 01:39:06,208 --> 01:39:07,750 - Jared Mitchell, yeah. 1063 01:39:07,750 --> 01:39:08,000 - Yeah. 1064 01:39:08,916 --> 01:39:10,625 - He was one of your students. 1065 01:39:10,625 --> 01:39:11,250 - Yes, yes. 1066 01:39:11,250 --> 01:39:11,833 - Who went to the 1067 01:39:11,833 --> 01:39:13,208 optics in the city of L.A.T. 1068 01:39:13,208 --> 01:39:14,625 and he's about to graduate. 1069 01:39:14,958 --> 01:39:15,833 What an amazing student. 1070 01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:20,250 And so I will be calling 1071 01:39:20,250 --> 01:39:22,625 you in a very short time 1072 01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:23,750 to ask about how we 1073 01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:25,166 might write a prem together. 1074 01:39:25,583 --> 01:39:26,625 - Okay, okay. 1075 01:39:26,625 --> 01:39:27,583 I'm looking forward to it. 1076 01:39:27,583 --> 01:39:28,541 I'm looking forward to it. 1077 01:39:28,541 --> 01:39:29,375 I'm looking forward to it. 1078 01:39:29,375 --> 01:39:30,458 I'm looking forward to it. 1079 01:39:30,458 --> 01:39:32,291 - But I think, you know, 1080 01:39:32,291 --> 01:39:36,041 that's a good, important message 1081 01:39:36,500 --> 01:39:37,541 to other materials 1082 01:39:37,541 --> 01:39:40,083 programs of how they can start 1083 01:39:40,250 --> 01:39:43,708 to develop a relationship with an HBCU. 1084 01:39:44,250 --> 01:39:46,083 But I think it has to be 1085 01:39:46,083 --> 01:39:48,875 predicated on mutual respect. 1086 01:39:49,833 --> 01:39:51,791 You know, we can't just write it and say, 1087 01:39:51,791 --> 01:39:53,375 "Hey, will you put your name on this?" 1088 01:39:53,625 --> 01:39:55,083 You know, we have to sit 1089 01:39:55,083 --> 01:39:57,666 down and do it collaboratively 1090 01:39:58,041 --> 01:39:59,791 to say, "What can we do 1091 01:39:59,791 --> 01:40:00,833 that'll be really unique 1092 01:40:00,833 --> 01:40:02,291 for both of our institutions? 1093 01:40:03,166 --> 01:40:06,625 And what's gonna match with the passions 1094 01:40:06,625 --> 01:40:08,333 of the people who are actually involved?" 1095 01:40:11,250 --> 01:40:13,166 - Yeah, that is so true. 1096 01:40:14,333 --> 01:40:18,541 And also, it'd be a two-way street. 1097 01:40:19,500 --> 01:40:21,625 As you bring proposals to me, 1098 01:40:21,625 --> 01:40:22,833 I bring proposals to you and 1099 01:40:22,833 --> 01:40:24,750 say, "Hey, can you help me, 1100 01:40:24,750 --> 01:40:26,541 you know, strengthen this proposal? 1101 01:40:26,833 --> 01:40:28,000 Can we work together with this 1102 01:40:28,125 --> 01:40:30,291 and see how we can put 1103 01:40:30,291 --> 01:40:32,458 together a strong proposal?" 1104 01:40:33,166 --> 01:40:36,291 That we may win too, so 1105 01:40:36,291 --> 01:40:39,166 it's a two-way street, yeah. 1106 01:40:40,541 --> 01:40:42,416 - So I had one last question, 1107 01:40:42,416 --> 01:40:44,375 but I think you kind of answered it. 1108 01:40:44,958 --> 01:40:47,958 So I was gonna ask, you know, 1109 01:40:47,958 --> 01:40:49,625 how should materials programs make sure 1110 01:40:49,625 --> 01:40:50,166 we're supporting 1111 01:40:50,166 --> 01:40:51,541 African-American students 1112 01:40:51,916 --> 01:40:53,375 in guaranteeing their success? 1113 01:40:54,166 --> 01:40:55,750 And what does success look like? 1114 01:40:56,500 --> 01:40:57,708 I think you answered that. 1115 01:40:58,291 --> 01:40:59,041 Success is what the 1116 01:40:59,041 --> 01:41:01,208 student wants success to be. 1117 01:41:01,208 --> 01:41:02,500 And we need to ask the student, 1118 01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:04,708 what do you view as success? 1119 01:41:07,125 --> 01:41:08,541 - Now, but you gotta also keep in mind 1120 01:41:08,541 --> 01:41:10,416 that sometimes they don't know. 1121 01:41:10,416 --> 01:41:11,583 - Yeah, of course. 1122 01:41:12,125 --> 01:41:15,166 - So, but it's also good when, you know, 1123 01:41:15,166 --> 01:41:16,125 but allowing them to 1124 01:41:16,125 --> 01:41:18,666 first engage, you know, 1125 01:41:18,666 --> 01:41:21,083 and come to the realization that they 1126 01:41:21,083 --> 01:41:22,375 don't quite know yet, 1127 01:41:23,333 --> 01:41:24,166 then you can start 1128 01:41:24,166 --> 01:41:25,583 feeding them some ideas. 1129 01:41:26,208 --> 01:41:27,250 Say, "Hey, have you tried this? 1130 01:41:27,250 --> 01:41:28,291 Have you considered this?" 1131 01:41:28,291 --> 01:41:31,750 You know, for this 1132 01:41:31,750 --> 01:41:33,083 student, it looked like this, 1133 01:41:33,083 --> 01:41:34,583 you know, and then, you 1134 01:41:34,583 --> 01:41:35,833 know, sometimes, you know, 1135 01:41:35,833 --> 01:41:37,375 you ask yourself, "Well, 1136 01:41:37,375 --> 01:41:38,625 where do I really wanna be?" 1137 01:41:38,791 --> 01:41:40,708 Okay, and you let them know 1138 01:41:40,708 --> 01:41:43,458 that you don't have to know right now. 1139 01:41:43,750 --> 01:41:44,708 - Okay. - Not always. 1140 01:41:45,083 --> 01:41:45,583 That's fine. 1141 01:41:45,875 --> 01:41:47,083 - Okay. - Many of us, 1142 01:41:47,375 --> 01:41:48,291 I mean, I didn't know I 1143 01:41:48,291 --> 01:41:49,583 wanted to be a physicist 1144 01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:51,916 until after, really until 1145 01:41:51,916 --> 01:41:54,208 after my junior senior year. 1146 01:41:54,833 --> 01:41:56,208 Okay, junior senior year undergraduate. 1147 01:41:57,416 --> 01:41:57,916 I know I wasn't gonna 1148 01:41:57,916 --> 01:41:58,750 be a football player 1149 01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:00,000 by my freshman year, 1150 01:42:00,666 --> 01:42:01,166 but I didn't really 1151 01:42:01,166 --> 01:42:02,750 get the physicist part 1152 01:42:02,750 --> 01:42:04,083 until I was about, you know, 1153 01:42:04,083 --> 01:42:07,125 in my fourth year as a senior. 1154 01:42:07,500 --> 01:42:10,875 I spent five years in my undergrad, 1155 01:42:10,875 --> 01:42:12,333 which I tell students, you 1156 01:42:12,333 --> 01:42:15,000 know, it's all right, okay? 1157 01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:15,625 It's all right. 1158 01:42:15,625 --> 01:42:17,541 It's good to have another 1159 01:42:17,541 --> 01:42:20,041 year if you can as an undergrad 1160 01:42:20,166 --> 01:42:22,000 because it helps strengthen, you know, 1161 01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:26,625 broaden your knowledge base, so, yeah. 1162 01:42:26,666 --> 01:42:28,458 I was gonna be a dentist 1163 01:42:29,125 --> 01:42:30,291 because my dad was a dentist 1164 01:42:30,291 --> 01:42:32,000 and I would just take over his practice. 1165 01:42:33,083 --> 01:42:33,291 - Wow. 1166 01:42:33,500 --> 01:42:34,625 - But then I went to the 1167 01:42:34,625 --> 01:42:36,625 exam, the pre-dental exam, 1168 01:42:36,625 --> 01:42:37,625 and I saw these people 1169 01:42:37,625 --> 01:42:39,250 throwing airplanes at each other, 1170 01:42:39,541 --> 01:42:40,250 little paper hair, 1171 01:42:40,250 --> 01:42:42,500 and it was just so lame. 1172 01:42:42,500 --> 01:42:43,958 I just, I'm like, "Wait a minute. 1173 01:42:44,791 --> 01:42:46,375 I can't go to school with these people." 1174 01:42:46,791 --> 01:42:48,250 I got up, walked out, 1175 01:42:49,541 --> 01:42:51,250 and started looking at 1176 01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:52,375 engineering programs. 1177 01:42:52,958 --> 01:42:54,541 - Wow, okay, okay. 1178 01:42:54,541 --> 01:42:55,458 - So you're right. 1179 01:42:55,625 --> 01:42:56,250 You never know. 1180 01:42:56,791 --> 01:43:00,791 And it's important to make 1181 01:43:00,791 --> 01:43:02,416 sure people keep options open 1182 01:43:02,791 --> 01:43:04,583 and explore and get experience. 1183 01:43:04,833 --> 01:43:06,416 So I'm our undergraduate advisor. 1184 01:43:07,250 --> 01:43:07,833 You know, I tell all 1185 01:43:07,833 --> 01:43:08,708 the students, you know, 1186 01:43:08,708 --> 01:43:10,416 your summers are, you 1187 01:43:10,416 --> 01:43:11,875 should be getting internships. 1188 01:43:11,875 --> 01:43:12,875 You're gonna make a lot of money, 1189 01:43:13,333 --> 01:43:14,708 but more importantly, you're gonna learn 1190 01:43:14,708 --> 01:43:16,708 what it's like in industry. 1191 01:43:17,458 --> 01:43:19,125 And you should try some big industries 1192 01:43:19,375 --> 01:43:20,708 and some small industries. 1193 01:43:21,291 --> 01:43:22,708 And even if you go for a PhD, 1194 01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:24,083 where do you think you're gonna work 1195 01:43:24,083 --> 01:43:25,166 when you finish your PhD? 1196 01:43:25,416 --> 01:43:26,041 You're gonna probably 1197 01:43:26,041 --> 01:43:27,125 work in an industry. 1198 01:43:28,333 --> 01:43:29,750 And so, you know, we have 1199 01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:32,666 all sorts of career fairs 1200 01:43:32,666 --> 01:43:33,541 and we have a weekly 1201 01:43:33,541 --> 01:43:35,125 lunch where we bring people in 1202 01:43:35,166 --> 01:43:37,625 from industry and graduate schools. 1203 01:43:38,291 --> 01:43:39,541 And I tell them, "You gotta go to these. 1204 01:43:39,916 --> 01:43:41,541 These are really important to go to 1205 01:43:42,125 --> 01:43:44,541 because this is giving you information 1206 01:43:45,291 --> 01:43:47,166 so when you graduate, and 1207 01:43:47,166 --> 01:43:48,125 you don't have to decide 1208 01:43:48,375 --> 01:43:49,541 till the very last minute, 1209 01:43:50,166 --> 01:43:51,708 but you might apply 1210 01:43:51,708 --> 01:43:53,125 to companies to go to. 1211 01:43:53,416 --> 01:43:55,416 You might apply to PhD programs. 1212 01:43:55,666 --> 01:43:56,541 You might do what you need 1213 01:43:56,541 --> 01:43:58,541 to get a one year master's. 1214 01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:00,125 And you don't have to decide 1215 01:44:00,250 --> 01:44:01,625 which of those you're gonna do 1216 01:44:02,333 --> 01:44:04,166 until one month before you graduate. 1217 01:44:05,750 --> 01:44:07,208 So keep your options open. 1218 01:44:07,625 --> 01:44:08,875 And then won't it be wonderful 1219 01:44:09,041 --> 01:44:10,500 if you have to make a hard decision?" 1220 01:44:12,500 --> 01:44:13,291 (laughing) 1221 01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:15,541 - Which echoes, which to 1222 01:44:15,541 --> 01:44:16,791 me, I always echo to them, 1223 01:44:16,791 --> 01:44:18,750 there are some problems you like to have. 1224 01:44:18,750 --> 01:44:19,541 - That's right. 1225 01:44:20,166 --> 01:44:21,625 Yeah, because it's a tough problem 1226 01:44:21,708 --> 01:44:23,666 to choose what your path is gonna be, 1227 01:44:23,666 --> 01:44:25,833 but that's why I think every student 1228 01:44:25,833 --> 01:44:27,041 needs to do research. 1229 01:44:27,833 --> 01:44:28,916 They might hate it. 1230 01:44:28,916 --> 01:44:29,708 They might think it's 1231 01:44:29,708 --> 01:44:31,000 terrible and that's okay. 1232 01:44:31,333 --> 01:44:32,458 They learned, you know? 1233 01:44:33,916 --> 01:44:34,791 But it might also 1234 01:44:34,791 --> 01:44:36,291 completely change their lives. 1235 01:44:36,625 --> 01:44:37,541 It changed mine when 1236 01:44:37,541 --> 01:44:38,625 I got to do research. 1237 01:44:39,666 --> 01:44:41,041 I think you told me a great story 1238 01:44:41,041 --> 01:44:41,833 when you went to Bell 1239 01:44:41,833 --> 01:44:42,916 Labs to do research. 1240 01:44:43,791 --> 01:44:45,708 - Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. 1241 01:44:45,833 --> 01:44:46,791 I mean, that's how you 1242 01:44:46,791 --> 01:44:48,333 open up my eyes quite a bit. 1243 01:44:49,541 --> 01:44:51,333 And I always tell my students who, 1244 01:44:51,333 --> 01:44:52,666 plus doing research, 1245 01:44:52,666 --> 01:44:53,791 especially during the summer, 1246 01:44:55,041 --> 01:44:56,166 you get to see all the 1247 01:44:56,166 --> 01:44:57,000 stuff that you've learned 1248 01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:58,458 in the class, in class, 1249 01:44:58,458 --> 01:44:59,625 how it really applies. 1250 01:45:00,166 --> 01:45:00,958 I mean, this stuff that 1251 01:45:00,958 --> 01:45:02,083 we're teaching you all, 1252 01:45:02,083 --> 01:45:04,208 it really has some true, strong, 1253 01:45:04,208 --> 01:45:05,583 practical applications. 1254 01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:06,583 Okay? - Oh yeah. 1255 01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,125 - And sometimes they don't 1256 01:45:08,125 --> 01:45:09,291 get a chance to really see that. 1257 01:45:09,666 --> 01:45:10,041 - Right. 1258 01:45:10,750 --> 01:45:13,208 We're not just applying gratuitous 1259 01:45:13,208 --> 01:45:14,666 violence to our students. 1260 01:45:15,375 --> 01:45:16,708 It's actually useful. 1261 01:45:18,583 --> 01:45:21,250 - Well, also, I've 1262 01:45:21,250 --> 01:45:22,708 been told by some people 1263 01:45:22,708 --> 01:45:23,208 in our physics 1264 01:45:23,208 --> 01:45:24,875 department that our application 1265 01:45:25,125 --> 01:45:28,541 is progressing to host National Society 1266 01:45:28,541 --> 01:45:30,958 of Black Physicists in 2026. 1267 01:45:31,750 --> 01:45:33,375 Hoping that comes through, 1268 01:45:33,375 --> 01:45:33,958 because it'll be 1269 01:45:33,958 --> 01:45:36,708 fantastic to see you come up here 1270 01:45:36,708 --> 01:45:39,416 to Michigan and have that whole group. 1271 01:45:39,416 --> 01:45:40,625 Because what a great group that is. 1272 01:45:40,625 --> 01:45:43,208 I've really enjoyed going to those 1273 01:45:43,208 --> 01:45:45,625 meetings and it's great. 1274 01:45:46,458 --> 01:45:51,166 - Well, I'd like to tell you, man, 1275 01:45:51,458 --> 01:45:53,541 that has been confirmed now. 1276 01:45:53,916 --> 01:45:54,791 We will be helping the 1277 01:45:54,791 --> 01:45:56,625 University of Michigan in 2026. 1278 01:45:56,833 --> 01:45:57,041 - Oh, it has. 1279 01:45:57,083 --> 01:45:58,000 - That's awesome. 1280 01:45:58,625 --> 01:45:59,541 So I hope everybody 1281 01:45:59,541 --> 01:46:00,666 who's listening to this 1282 01:46:00,666 --> 01:46:02,416 comes to that meeting. 1283 01:46:02,958 --> 01:46:04,708 Because even if you think 1284 01:46:04,708 --> 01:46:06,083 you're doing material science, 1285 01:46:06,541 --> 01:46:07,333 this is where you're gonna 1286 01:46:07,333 --> 01:46:10,666 find amazing physics undergrads. 1287 01:46:11,500 --> 01:46:13,166 They have money to bring, 1288 01:46:13,916 --> 01:46:14,500 how many undergrads do you typically have? 1289 01:46:14,541 --> 01:46:18,625 - Around 350 to 400. 1290 01:46:19,416 --> 01:46:22,958 - Yeah, 350 to 400 students, 1291 01:46:23,291 --> 01:46:24,291 undergraduate physics 1292 01:46:24,291 --> 01:46:26,083 students come to this meeting 1293 01:46:26,083 --> 01:46:27,708 and you can buy a booth 1294 01:46:27,708 --> 01:46:30,875 and advertise your program. 1295 01:46:31,208 --> 01:46:33,208 And it's really, really rewarding. 1296 01:46:33,625 --> 01:46:36,416 So I hope, I mean, you don't have to wait 1297 01:46:36,416 --> 01:46:37,375 till we have it at Michigan. 1298 01:46:37,666 --> 01:46:38,250 You can do it. 1299 01:46:38,583 --> 01:46:39,500 Where's it gonna be next year? 1300 01:46:39,750 --> 01:46:40,666 - I would encourage 1301 01:46:40,666 --> 01:46:42,000 you to come this year. 1302 01:46:42,791 --> 01:46:44,291 Well, the next two, three years, we're gonna have to do it next year. Well, the next two, three years, 1303 01:46:44,291 --> 01:46:45,208 we're gonna be doing it. 1304 01:46:45,458 --> 01:46:50,041 A special one, 2024, 25 and 26, 1305 01:46:50,666 --> 01:46:51,958 we'll be doing it in conjunction 1306 01:46:52,166 --> 01:46:53,166 with the National Society 1307 01:46:53,166 --> 01:46:54,458 of Hispanic Physics too. 1308 01:46:55,458 --> 01:46:57,500 So both organizations, we 1309 01:46:57,500 --> 01:46:58,458 decided to come together, 1310 01:46:59,041 --> 01:47:01,083 work, collaborate on a 1311 01:47:01,083 --> 01:47:02,166 conference for three years, 1312 01:47:02,458 --> 01:47:03,500 three consecutive years. 1313 01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:05,875 And we're looking forward to it. 1314 01:47:05,875 --> 01:47:07,666 We're gonna be in Houston in 2024. 1315 01:47:08,916 --> 01:47:10,208 It looks like we're 1316 01:47:10,208 --> 01:47:12,166 gonna be in San Jose in 2025. 1317 01:47:12,958 --> 01:47:14,833 And we are definitely locked in 1318 01:47:15,125 --> 01:47:17,500 for the University of Michigan in 2026. 1319 01:47:18,625 --> 01:47:19,083 - Fantastic. 1320 01:47:20,916 --> 01:47:23,041 Anything else you'd like to mention 1321 01:47:23,041 --> 01:47:24,291 that you think is important 1322 01:47:24,291 --> 01:47:25,666 for our materials programs 1323 01:47:25,666 --> 01:47:27,208 to hear before we close out? 1324 01:47:28,750 --> 01:47:31,083 - I think we covered the gamut. 1325 01:47:31,833 --> 01:47:33,416 There's one thing I did wanna mention. 1326 01:47:34,916 --> 01:47:36,041 You and I had a chance to talk, 1327 01:47:36,416 --> 01:47:37,375 I think the pre-talk about some 1328 01:47:37,375 --> 01:47:38,500 sensitivity training. 1329 01:47:39,791 --> 01:47:43,833 To me, that would be a 1330 01:47:43,833 --> 01:47:45,750 great thing for, yes, 1331 01:47:46,083 --> 01:47:49,750 for say majority faculty 1332 01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:52,500 to get an understanding 1333 01:47:53,291 --> 01:47:55,416 of underrepresented 1334 01:47:55,416 --> 01:47:57,000 minorities and things like that. 1335 01:47:57,500 --> 01:47:58,833 But I believe really 1336 01:47:58,833 --> 01:48:00,500 it's good for everyone. 1337 01:48:01,083 --> 01:48:03,250 Because what I've been 1338 01:48:03,250 --> 01:48:04,791 trying to expose my students to 1339 01:48:05,125 --> 01:48:05,875 is that, hey, you gotta 1340 01:48:05,875 --> 01:48:07,291 understand the environment 1341 01:48:07,458 --> 01:48:08,875 you're going into, right? 1342 01:48:09,125 --> 01:48:09,750 It's a combination. 1343 01:48:10,333 --> 01:48:11,208 Everybody won't be able to 1344 01:48:11,208 --> 01:48:12,500 adjust the whole world to you. 1345 01:48:13,375 --> 01:48:14,291 So that's it. 1346 01:48:14,333 --> 01:48:16,458 You gotta also learn the culture 1347 01:48:17,166 --> 01:48:18,458 of a predominantly white institution. 1348 01:48:19,583 --> 01:48:21,333 They focus a lot more on research and 1349 01:48:21,333 --> 01:48:22,666 learning new things. 1350 01:48:23,250 --> 01:48:25,083 And sometimes we take out 1351 01:48:25,083 --> 01:48:27,583 the relational side of things, 1352 01:48:28,166 --> 01:48:30,291 but we realize that we have to pull it in 1353 01:48:30,541 --> 01:48:31,166 within good reason. 1354 01:48:32,416 --> 01:48:34,458 So I do think it's great to have that 1355 01:48:34,458 --> 01:48:35,416 sensitivity training 1356 01:48:37,083 --> 01:48:37,458 for both. 1357 01:48:37,958 --> 01:48:40,791 But primarily, if I'm at a 1358 01:48:40,791 --> 01:48:42,250 predominantly white institution, 1359 01:48:42,666 --> 01:48:43,625 I do need to have some 1360 01:48:43,625 --> 01:48:45,666 sensitive training about HBCU 1361 01:48:45,666 --> 01:48:47,041 or about African-Americans. 1362 01:48:47,333 --> 01:48:52,500 So I can at least be equipped to be, 1363 01:48:53,125 --> 01:48:54,333 I would say on the 1364 01:48:54,333 --> 01:48:55,666 positive side of things 1365 01:48:55,833 --> 01:48:56,916 instead of the negative side. 1366 01:48:58,416 --> 01:48:58,916 - Fantastic. 1367 01:49:00,208 --> 01:49:01,375 Well, thank you so much. 1368 01:49:01,708 --> 01:49:04,916 And so thank all of you who tuned in 1369 01:49:04,916 --> 01:49:06,750 and are listening or watching on YouTube. 1370 01:49:08,000 --> 01:49:08,875 I understand that 1371 01:49:08,875 --> 01:49:11,125 transcripts are coming to podcasts now. 1372 01:49:11,458 --> 01:49:13,208 Apple has announced that 1373 01:49:13,208 --> 01:49:16,083 we can put transcripts in 1374 01:49:16,083 --> 01:49:17,041 so people can read 1375 01:49:17,041 --> 01:49:18,916 this, they can listen to it. 1376 01:49:19,416 --> 01:49:20,666 And I think it's great. 1377 01:49:21,291 --> 01:49:22,916 So thank you so much, Willie, 1378 01:49:22,916 --> 01:49:24,291 and thank all of you for listening 1379 01:49:24,291 --> 01:49:26,000 and we'll see you next time. 1380 01:49:26,708 --> 01:49:27,208 - Thank you, Steve. 1381 01:49:27,375 --> 01:49:30,000 (upbeat music)