FAITH: I have a confession to make. Oh, okay. This is gonna be a good one. 

MELODY: I don't know if it's a good one. I often feel like a really bad person. I know. 

FAITH: Okay, you need to elaborate. 

MELODY: Why? [laughs] Anyway, yeah, so basically, there are people who, there are people I love, there are people who love me, there are people who I have good relationships with, right? But sometimes they do things that trigger me. And by triggering, I mean, I don't, you know, go and sit in a corner and start being traumatised and re-traumatised. By trigger, I mean that I get these feelings of irritation bubbling up in me with things that they do. And in that few seconds that it takes to feel that irritation and that anger, right, I get overwhelmed by another feeling, which is guilt. Guilt for being irritated by someone who is so precious to me. Guilt for, you know, the ungracious thoughts that go through my head on how I would react. And so, I don't feel like a good person. 

FAITH: Well, that sounds relatable. I think you're not the only person who experiences that. I am curious though, when the irritation shows up, what do you think it means about you in that moment? Like, what does your mind tell you who you are or what you are? 

MELODY: Okay, it's interesting that you've asked two questions. But my answer seems to be an answer to both questions at the same time. But alright, before I do that, I'm going to introduce ourselves and this podcast. This not good person and this better person. 

So yeah, if you're listening for the first time, this is Life in the Grey. I mean, if you're not listening for the first time, this is also Life in the Grey. It's a Mums At The Table podcast where we grapple with the psychological factors that shape how we relate to others. I'm Melody, a writer, a communicator and project leader for Mums At The Table. 

FAITH: And I'm Faith. I produce content for a media ministry that's focused on healing, hope and meaningful connection. 

MELODY: So, back to your question about how it makes me feel as a person, and as well as you were saying that it's something that's normal that everybody feels. This is the thing. I don't think it's normal. I think that when I feel that way, right, the value that I have as a person reduces. Like, I feel like other people are good people who react to other people with kindness, with patience, with compassion. And then here I am thinking unkind thoughts about that person, getting irritated about it. And so, that's how I feel. I don't feel like a good person. 

FAITH: So, it sounds to me like there's this unspoken “rules”. And I put rules in quotation marks, right? Because it's maybe like an unspoken rule, like a good person. Because you mentioned the word good person. A good person never feels negative emotions towards the people that they love. Or, if I'm a loving person, then I will never get triggered. 

MELODY: That's how I feel. It's just like, well, if I'm a nice person, why would I get annoyed by what you're doing? Especially because you are not a stranger to me. You are someone that I respect. You're someone that I love. You're someone whose relationship I treasure. So, why would you . . . even as I say this, I realise that I'm contradicting myself. Because I know that in relationships we have conflicts, right? And it's normal to have conflict. So, if I have conflict with someone, that feels normal. But, I don't know, it's the thoughts that run through my head. I guess maybe because it's like when the person is trying to . . . the person is being nice. Or the person is trying to do something nice. Or something, maybe even not nice. Something just completely innocent. And yet, I'm annoyed by it. It's like, why are you doing it this way? Why are you doing it like that? 

FAITH: I mean, it's like a really heavy tension to carry, right? Because it sounds like, on the one hand, you want to be loving. But there's also something that feels like a contradiction for you happening inside. And what do you think makes feeling loving and feeling irritated mutually exclusive? 

MELODY: Even as I think about it, as I mentioned, there is a . . . yeah, I realise the contradiction. Because I feel like it needs to be exclusive. Because when you love someone, it's like you accept them, right? You accept them for who they are. They belong with you. Not they belong to you, because we're not talking about ownership here. But they belong with you. And so, if they belong with you, they need to be safe with you. Why are you irritated by them for the fact that they're just existing and being themselves? 

FAITH: I feel like what you're saying is, I can relate to it. And I don't know if this would apply in your situation. But for me, the way that I handle these feelings of guilt is to separate between, is it guilt or because I did something wrong, right? I really did something wrong. The keyword being did. Like I had an action to it. Or is it guilt because my behaviour was not in alignment with my values? Or is it that I think it's guilt, but it's really I'm just feeling someone else's feelings? Because I just . . . I mean, we're empathetic creatures, right? So being able to feel what other people or imagine what other people feel is a form of communication in some ways. And one of the ways that that can mess up our mental health is when we think that other people's feelings are our responsibility when it's not. And yes, there is a certain extent of we are responsible for how we behave, which is why is it guilt because we did something that is not in alignment with our values? Or is it just the feeling responsible for someone else's feelings masquerading as guilt? Does that make sense? 

MELODY: Well, I guess in a way with what you've just said, right? I've interpreted it. This is how I'm interpreting it, right? Is that because I haven't acted out on it, the other person doesn't know how I feel. And so how I feel is different to how I would have acted, like how I would behave. And so those two are different. One, I should probably feel guilty about. But the other one, a feeling is just a feeling. But if I don't act on it, if I don't behave on that feeling, then it will never get here. So . . . 

FAITH: What do you mean by behave? Because there's kind of different ways of behaving on something, right? Like if we don't say, okay, let's not say we, let's just say me. Okay, so say I'm in a situation where I really have assessed that my boundaries have been crossed. Not acting up on that feeling of frustration or that feeling of helplessness. It's like if what we repress will somehow leak out in other ways, right? 

MELODY: Well, that's why I'm not talking about boundaries crossing. Because I'm not talking about something that has been wronged. I'm talking about an innocent act, a thoughtful measure. Like there's no boundaries crossed at all. It's just me reacting to something that is completely innocent. But it's just because of my own past experience, my own feelings, whatever it is that I've had, my baggage is the one that's causing me to react and feel a certain way. That's the part that I feel that I'm talking about, I'm guessing. 

FAITH: And what have you, I mean, have you tried like unpacking that baggage a little bit? To find out like what's driving it? What's filling it up? Why is that button still there? I'm mixing metaphors right now. I think unpacking it sometimes is a little bit tricky because it depends. If it's a consistent thing that happens, then yes, you can unpack it. But if it's not right, it just happens for the moment. It's not something that you might want to unpack for every single thing. But just with talking about this, right? I'm just thinking about there's something that I'm thinking. It's something that I practice with my son as well. It's called emotional regulation, right? Where basically for those who don't really know what it means, it's basically when you start feeling out of sorts in whichever manner, negative, positive, you're emotionally dysregulated. So to get emotionally regulated back, it's so where you're centred again, that's emotional regulation, right? And that doesn't happen straight away. And that takes time. And the thing that I tell my son when he is emotionally dysregulated, which he acts out on, is that feelings are feelings. And it's fine to have those feelings. So if I'm telling him that it's fine to have those feelings, then it's fine for me to have my feelings too, right? And it's a matter of the question then is, it's fine for me to have the feelings. It's what I do with the feelings that counts. So going back to what you're saying, and it's all just kind of, it's still something that I kind of need to figure out. But from what I'm gathering is that feelings are just feelings. And when things happen to you, no matter how well-meaning, no matter how well-intentioned, no matter whatever it is, you can still get triggered. And that is fine because feelings are still feelings. It's how you, what you do with the feelings. Do you then get those feelings and you try to calm down and not react and hurt someone? Or do you react instinctively and hurt someone? So going back to, I'm just solving my own problems. But no, actually, I'm not saying, because it is actually spurred on by what you were saying. It's that going from that, right? Just feeling irritated, it's not an issue. It's how I act out from it that it is. And we've talked about it many, many times before in our various conversations. Take the pause. It's always important to take the pause. So when I feel irritated, I don't act out straight away. I take the pause. Even if it's just for a few seconds and not react straight away and decide why am I feeling this way. And I'm not saying go into a deep dive for five hours into why I'm feeling this way, then react to that person. But just take the pause and go, is this out of line? 

FAITH: Guilt can be a moral compass. But it sometimes also masquerades as a moral compass in order to protect us from our deeper fears, maybe behaviours or emotions or thoughts that we don't believe match the image that we have of ourselves or who we think we should be. So this whole thing about I feel guilty about something is like, wow, it's definitely a lot to unpack and have a conversation about. That's more than just in this podcast. But I like what you said. I like what you said that there is a pause. And when we talk about taking the pause, we talk about recognising that feelings are sometimes just feelings. And here's the thing about feelings though. Our brain is not always honest with us. Sometimes it's just as simple as just saying, you know what, this conclusion that I've made about what this person did is making me feel irritated. But that's my brain just telling me a story. My brain just spilling a story. And I can put it one side. I mean, it's not like you have to deep dive at the moment. You can put it one side. And if it becomes a pattern, then maybe that's something that we have to go through and dig deeper and just uncover and sit with it. But oftentimes, you're right. Feelings are just feelings. And the feelings can come up because of our past, because of the experiences, the previous patterns. But going back to the thing about guilt, I think we have to be careful with guilt. Guilt is not always necessarily—and it's still a feeling—which is why when we say the feelings that we get from our brain may not always be the truth, but sometimes it could be just a story that our brain tells. And guilt is one of those things, one of those feelings, where when we feel guilty, is it truly because we've done something? Or is it because this guilt is masquerading as something else in order to protect us? And sometimes, our brain may want to protect us not from real harm, but from imagined harm that comes from unresolved issues, that we will need time to slowly unpack. 

MELODY: I like what you said as well about that. The guilt comes because it's masquerading, because it's making me feel like I'm not the person that, you know, the ideal me that I should be. So yes, I'm imagining myself as this, I don't know, statue of marble, where I'm just calm and I'm, you know, perfect, right? And so that's why there's that feeling of guilt that comes because I'm like, in my image, I'm meant to be this person. And I'm not. I know I'm not because I know of all the thoughts that run through my head. But I guess that's why, you know, many of us have intrusive thoughts, but it doesn't mean that we act out on them or they become real. 

FAITH: Sometimes the thoughts that we have are just, you know, it doesn't . . . okay, I'm having a bit of a struggle here because there is this, there's almost this swing right now to like, oh, I am dysregulated or I need to be right. And I wonder if sometimes, right, that becomes a code, right? Where we tell ourselves we're only allowed to have one baseline, like we are just one colour. But are we really dysregulated or are we just feeling our feelings sometimes? And when we feel our feelings, when we say don't act out on them or is it more like we're saying we can feel our feelings and we can choose what we do with these feelings. We can choose how these feelings are enacted in our choices, in our actions, whether internally or externally, right? Towards others or not. Like sometimes I feel feelings and I think, you know what? How I'm going to deal with them right now, the action that I'm going to take about these feelings is just keep quiet and just smile and we can have a conversation later. When I'm more, when I've thought it through and I have better words for it, better language. Or sometimes I feel these feelings and I think, you know, now is the time that I need to really stand up for myself and I need to say, stop, no, this is wrong. And yeah, it's . . . 

MELODY: I guess that's true. And that's why it's like there is this thing as well where they say, and it's something that I say to my son as well, which I should say to myself, feelings, like I've said it before, feelings are feelings. But in extension of that is that it's not a good or bad feeling. Like we don't give it a moral value. Feelings are just feelings and just ride it and see what happens. But also, you know, decide what you want to do with it and the consequences of what you do with that feelings. But I'm going to finish up here because, you know, we ain't got time for fluff. But not that what we're saying is fluffy, but I know we're short on time. So I'm just going to say this, that feelings are feelings and yes, it's what you do with them that matters. But there is this concept that I've learned as well, where, you know, just because if you've acted badly on a feeling, right, and the consequences are bad, there is a blow out from it. It doesn't mean that you've gone into irreversible territory. There's this concept called rupture and repair. And that is a very healing kind of concept in which where you actually make a mistake, have that rupture in a relationship. But there is always opportunity for repair. And I guess that's what I want to leave with people is that, you know, if you've known that you've crossed the boundary somewhere, that if I know that I've crossed the boundary somewhere and I have caused hurt and I didn't want to and I've ruptured a relationship, come up and say, I'm sorry, repair the relationship. And that heals a relationship and that can heal. So there is hope, there is grace, and there isn't a, I've done an irreversible damage kind of thing. 

So I guess to our Life in the Grey community, I just wanted to say, what about you? What do you do when you feel triggered? What do you do when you have feelings? Like, how do you make sure that you don't react in a way that hurts others, especially those close to you? And do you ever stop feeling guilty? Do you have a way to stop feeling that kind of guilt? Like, I want to know. Share your thoughts in the comments or reach out to us by emailing hello@mumsatthetable.com or through any of the Mums At The Table socials. 

In February, that's two episodes from now, we're planning to do a special recording where we read through everybody's responses. So please do send them in or we'll have nothing to talk about. And next episode for the new year, we're going to do a recap of our previous episodes. What have we learned since then? What has changed? Did we put anything new into practice? Not all the episodes, of course, because, you know, that's going to take all year. But yeah, make sure you come back next month and the month after next for our two special episodes. Life in the Grey is a Mums At The Table podcast and we'll catch you next month.