FINAL Return of the Jedi === Katie Marinello: [00:00:00] Hey guys, this is Katie from the Future. I just wanted to let you know that this episode is going to be the last of season one. We decided to take a short break now that the Star Wars era of Carrie's life is over, so that we can catch up on some movies and keep bringing you hopefully even better episodes. Katie Marinello: Uh, we hope you'll use this time to catch up on our backlog, follow us on social media, recommend us to friends, and leave a review on whatever platform you're currently listening to. Okay. Onto the show. This might be my favorite one so far. Claire Fisher: Hey Katie. Katie Marinello: Hey, Claire. Oh my God. Wait. Me too. Claire Fisher: We all got drunk in honor of Brian's birthday. Katie Marinello: my God. No. I was gonna tell you, I have a big announcement. Claire Fisher: What's that? Katie Marinello: I've decided to start drinking again. Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: The world is awful and I don't know why I stopped drinking by myself. It's not like the world got less awful. Claire Fisher: All right, Katie Marinello: is awesome. Claire Fisher: now we're both tipsy. Would you like to do tonight's? Uh, hello and welcome. Katie Marinello: Am [00:01:00] I editing this one? Claire Fisher: You are, Katie Marinello: We Katie Marinello: hello and welcome to Carried Far, far Away the show where we watch and read everything Carrie Fisher did in her short life and story career. My name is Katie Marine. Claire Fisher: I am Claire Fisher. Katie Marinello: And today we are discussing. Claire Fisher: Star Wars, episode six. Return of the Jedi. Katie Marinello: Yay. So I actually felt a little melancholy starting this movie. Claire Fisher: Oh yeah. Katie Marinello: I feel like we just started this podcast, even though I know it's been like almost six months that we've been recording and we're done with the Star Wars season. Yes. We know that there will be more, but we didn't know that in 1983. Claire Fisher: We Claire Fisher: didn't know that. Claire Fisher: As late as 2014, right? Katie Marinello: exactly. So Claire Fisher: They announced it a few years before it came Katie Marinello: did they announce it a few years before? Yeah. Anyway, there's a reason we were so excited by 2015. Right?[00:02:00] Claire Fisher: Yes. We are so hyped. Katie Marinello: So hype. Um, then I was thinking about how she must have Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: let's be honest, all these other movies that she's been doing, not Star Wars level Equality. Claire Fisher: Some hits though. I mean, the Blues Brothers was a hit, Katie Marinello: Yes, that's true, Claire Fisher: uh, shampoo was a hit. Katie Marinello: weirdly, yes, but she's what, like 24 at this point? Claire Fisher: Well, let's see. She was 19 when she made the first one. It was six years later. 25. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. 25. That's a weird time to feel like your biggest work is behind you. Claire Fisher: But she got married the same year to Paul Simons, so you know, she still had some hope for the future. Katie Marinello: Yeah. But then they got divorced like a year Claire Fisher: A year later. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: so, and then they got back together and then. Claire Fisher: They were off and on for 12 years. Yes. Katie Marinello: Plus, we know she's struggling with a whole lot of other things. Claire Fisher: So at this point in her life, she had yet to be diagnosed with bipolar [00:03:00] disorder. buT she was definitely showing symptoms Katie Marinello: It's coming soon. Claire Fisher: self-medicating. Uh, so, you know, it's possible. She just wasn't really thinking that hard about the future. Um. We know she was doing a lot of LSD Claire Fisher: we. Katie Marinello: When we get to postcards from the Edge, I think we're gonna learn that she was thinking very hard about the future. Claire Fisher: Oh, was she? Katie Marinello: Yeah. 'cause postcards from the Edge, I've read it before. I know you haven't. Um, it's not autobiographical, but yes it is. And it's about it. An actress who just finished a. Highly popular science fiction franchise that is trying to figure out what the rest of her life is and is addicted to drugs and has bipolar. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Well write what you know. Katie Marinello: Yes, exactly. Claire Fisher: All right. Shall I do a 54 second summary Claire Fisher: of Return of the Jedi? Claire Fisher: All right, you, you ready to time? Katie Marinello: No, hold on and go. Claire Fisher: Princess Leia and her friends infiltrate the criminal organization of Job of the hut in [00:04:00] order to rescue Han Solo, who is still frozen in Carbonite. After she's captured and forced to wear a revealing outfit, she slays the hut. Later she han Luke at Chewy and the droids go to Endor to lead a ground assault against a shield generator, shenanigans ensue, involving chase scenes, and being mistaken for God's and or food. Eventually, Leia recruits. The Ewok as allies slash allegories for pro-American Vietnamese and Cambodian people. Claire Fisher: Luke then peels off to fight Darth Vader in person while Lando Kian leads an aerial assault against the newly reconstructed death star. Thanks to the power of teamwork and friendship, as well as Darth Vader's, truly last minute rebellion against Emperor Palpatine. Claire Fisher: The good guys prevail Q, the dance number? Katie Marinello: Yes, the dance number. Is the dance number shorter than it used to be? Claire Fisher: Yes, Katie Marinello: Okay, Claire Fisher: because ' Katie Marinello: cause they added in the scenes from the other planets, but I didn't think that meant they had to reduce the dancing. Claire Fisher: The people who make special edition DVDs live in a a special world. Katie Marinello: Liga certainly does. Claire Fisher: mm-hmm. [00:05:00] Brian was inspired while watching to say, now I really wanna see what the original looked like. 'cause we've never seen the Katie Marinello: I was having that feeling a lot during this movie, and I don't really know why, because I did not have that feeling during Star Wars or Empire Shakes back, but. I just was like, I'm curious what changed. And part of me at this point, you know, we had the re-release version, so the 1997 re-release or eight whatever, whenever, this movie was re-released, we had them all on VHS. I think we've only watched, I've only watched the DVD re-release maybe once with you when we were living together and we did like a whole series rewatch. So part of me was like, am I forgetting this or is this new in certain places, you know? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Well, we've only seen the original, original. When we were over at our friend's, the Mahoney's Claire Fisher: house and watching their eighties era home video releases. Claire Fisher: My, the main thing I remember [00:06:00] is the SAR lock, not having a mouth Claire Fisher: in the older version. Katie Marinello: And I did remember that because I remember in our special edition VHS, you know, the gold box that had Darth Vader's face on it. Katie Marinello: They had like comparisons of Claire Fisher: They had a making Claire Fisher: of the remaster. Katie Marinello: So I remember like the windows and the cloud city were more like vibrant, like you could see more of the city. Katie Marinello: And I remember the, a lot of the monsters had been. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: Redone Claire Fisher: In return of the Jedi, it's probably most noticeable 'cause they completely redid some of the scenes in Java's Palace. Katie Marinello: I Thoughts. Okay. All right. Claire Fisher: Okay. So I said I'd do one trivia fact every 10 minutes. So Claire Fisher: you want me to do, I'll do one now and then we'll start the clock. Okay. Katie Marinello: Yeah, sounds good. Claire Fisher: All right. There's exactly one. actor who had to reprise their role for the special edition. The Jabba's as palace sequence was heavily, edited and extended for the special edition, including adding a shot of, the slave dancer that [00:07:00] he kills, the one Claire Fisher: he drops into the ranker pit. In the original release, she just drops through the trap door, end of sequence in the re-release they want to show her in the ranker pit. They got the same dancer back Claire Fisher: 15 years later. , her name is Femi Taylor. Claire Fisher: It only ha happened because a friend of her son was involved in doing the new updated special effects, and he was like, oh Claire Fisher: yeah, my mom was in that Katie Marinello: her? Claire Fisher: And then they were like, oh, okay. So yeah, they, the one person that they brought back is that random dancer who dies in Java's Palace. Katie Marinello: Yes, Claire Fisher: Um, okay, I'll now start my clock and we won't share another trivia fact for 10 minutes. That's, but I can tell you about the times if you're Katie Marinello: yes. Let's do it. Let's talk about the times. Claire Fisher: All right, so this movie was originally released May 25th, 1983, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and it has some interesting records. It grossed $23 million domestically in its opening weekend, which was then the biggest opening weekend gross in history. Claire Fisher: But it broke a record that was only 1-year-old. [00:08:00] And do you know what movie from 1982 had previously held the opening weekend record? Katie Marinello: No. Claire Fisher: Star Trek to the Wrath of Kahan Claire Fisher: now. Katie Marinello: the Star Wars. Claire Fisher: Exactly. Yeah. Return to The Jedi was the first movie to gross over $20 million domestically in its opening weekend. And it went on to make $475 million in 1980 $3 against a $32 million budget. So, you know, very respectable, very healthy, but just goes to show this was an event. Claire Fisher: People were camping out, people were going more than once, right? Claire Fisher: Because by 1983, they knew there'd be a home video release, but not everybody had a VCR. So if you wanted to see it, you saw it in theaters, right? Um, in pop culture, the Disney Channel had launched on April 18th. So, you know, they would one day all be owned by the same people, right? Um, five days before this movie [00:09:00] came out on May 20th, two separate research groups published a set of findings in the same issue of the journal science. The separate research groups had independently declared that a novel retrovirus was probably the etiology behind, uh, what is now called hiv aids eights. Katie Marinello: Ist that so interesting. I, I remember hearing about that. Like, and it's not the only time that's happened where like two groups of scientists will discover the same thing around the same time. Claire Fisher: Well, they were working from the same inputs, right? Katie Marinello: Right. Yeah. But still, to be ready to publish on that exact timeline is interesting. Claire Fisher: Yeah, there's a whole behind the scenes story, uh, which was made into a book and a movie called, and the band played on. But, um, so AIDS had been clinically described for the first time in June of 1981. Took two years for an etiology to be confirmed. Uh, compare that to how quickly we got COVID, Claire Fisher: like identified, known to be novel, DNA sequenced, uh, and a vaccine already having safety studies done within, I think it was like 45 days of it first [00:10:00] being identified. Claire Fisher: Right? So, you know, two years seems like a, a long time compared to Katie Marinello: Well, especially because the scientific community and the government had been ignoring it for several years before that. Claire Fisher: . We now know it had been circulating since at least the late fifties, but had flown under the radar because many of the things that people who are infected with HIV could die from were things that could be mistaken for pneumonia Claire Fisher: or cancer or anything like that. And meanwhile, 1983 was an important year for the media that we used to record, edit, distribute, and listen to this podcast in two important ways. Number one, on January 1st, the migration of the Arnet to TCP slash IP was officially completed. If that means nothing to you, this is the beginning of the true internet Katie Marinello: Oh, okay. Claire Fisher: Time's gone by when you could really only connect from like one of seven computers in the world. Claire Fisher: And it was called Amp ANet, right? The TCP IP protocol is [00:11:00] what it made it possible for us to eventually build up to the worldwide web, Claire Fisher: which of course didn't come online till the nineties. And second, the first commercial cell phone call was placed. October 13th, 1983. , phone company representative stood in the parking lot of Soldier Field in Chicago and called Alexander Graham Bell's. Great grandson in Germany. Katie Marinello: Aw. Claire Fisher: Cellular phone technology had first been demonstrated, way back in 1973, but without, supporting infrastructure of cell networks. Claire Fisher: There was no commercial market Claire Fisher: for it. So they spent 10 years like setting up, networks in various countries and then brought out a commercially available model in late 1983. Katie Marinello: It's so nice that there's been no ill effects from either of those inventions at all. Claire Fisher: Absolutely none. We're fine. Right? Yeah. But if you're listening to this on your phone right now, Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: 1983, Katie Marinello: we're so happy that you have the internet [00:12:00] and the cell phone. Exactly. Claire Fisher: Exactly. Yeah. All right. So with that in mind, shall we, um, dive into what we think about Return of the Jedi, which I know we loved it when we were kids. Katie Marinello: you not interested in actors who aren't Carrie Fisher? Claire Fisher: Oh, they added more actors this time. I hardly noticed. I, Katie Marinello: okay. That's actually a really good point. 'cause I was scraping the bottom of the barrel to find some, but I did. So just a few. We'll go over just a few. Uh, first of all, I had forgotten that this movie was. Were directed by yet another person, Claire Fisher: yes. Katie Marinello: Marquon. And he was like, Lucas's, like seventh choice apparently. Katie Marinello: According to Wikipedia, he asked Spielberg, but they were both in disputes with the Director's Guild. He asked, , the guy who did the second one, whatever. Katie Marinello: Anyways, so he only really directed about seven feature films total. Richard Mark, because he died four years after this movie was released, Katie Marinello: Lucas said he chose him because he was good with actors, um, which we [00:13:00] know Lucas very much was not. Um, but Lucas was on the set a lot, more so than he was with Empire Strikes Back. Um, he said it was because Markon didn't have as much experience with special effects. Mark. Is quoted as saying it is rather like trying to direct King Lear with Shakespeare in the next room. Claire Fisher: Uhhuh. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Ian McDermott, Katie Marinello: um, Claire Fisher: Ah, Ian Mc Claire Fisher: Durbin Katie Marinello: So he Katie Marinello: plays the em, Claire Fisher: joins. Katie Marinello: yes. Finally joins. He plays the Emperor. He's from Scotland. He joined the Royal Shakespeare Company in 1974. Have you noticed that a lot of these actors got their start on Shakespeare? I just think that's interesting. Katie Marinello: Um, Claire Fisher: gets their start on Shakespeare. Katie Marinello: I guess, I don't know. Katie Marinello: Not everybody gets their start in the Royal Shakespeare Company. Katie Marinello: He has received an Olivier Award for best actor and a Tony Award for best featured actor in a play. , he'd only had one other film role when he was cast, or at least that's what he says. And then so he was cast as the emperor. Katie Marinello: Then [00:14:00] 16 years later, boy if anyone's grateful for the prequels, right? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Because 16 years. So after this like kind of a bit part, you know, he has like a couple of scenes in the last movie, he reprised the role as the characters younger incarnation of, of Senator and later Chancellor Palpatine and Sith Lord Darth Sidious in the prequel films. Katie Marinello: He has a voiced or appeared as the emperor in every movie that the emperor has appeared in. And most of the TV shows that wasn't true at first, but he was retconned into Empire strikes back in the . So yeah, so he is voiced sidious in several. Star Wars TV shows and movies that I've never heard of. Katie Marinello: So that's how prolific he is. CNN named him fourth in their top 10 British villains. Claire Fisher: CNN will make a listicle out of literally anything Katie Marinello: breaking news? Breaking news. Claire Fisher: What is there, like, are there like Jordanian villains and like, you know, uh,[00:15:00] Katie Marinello: I know Katie Marinello: I had to check that several times to be like, why is CNN doing Katie Marinello: British villains? Claire Fisher: villains, Peruvian villains, Claire Fisher: top 10 Katie Marinello: villains from TI Taiwan, I mean. Sebastian Lewis Shaw played Anakin Skywalker. He was an English actor, theater director, novelist, playwright, and poet. He had a seven decade career where he appeared in dozens of stage performances and more than 40 film and television app appearances. He also got his start in Shakespeare, including a decade run in the Royal Shakespeare Company. Katie Marinello: He was also a writer, and this sounds like. Something that could only happen by someone named Sebastian Lewis Shaw, and not like Sandra Lewis Shaw. He sometimes only took parts in movies under the condition that he would be allowed to write all his own lines. Uh, he wrote one novel called The Christening, which has a description you have to read on your own because I cannot handle it in my own brain. Katie Marinello: So obviously he's only in the one scene where, Luke takes the mask off of [00:16:00] Darth Vader. But because it was emotional climax of the film, the casting crew did want an experienced actor. The scene lasts two minutes and seven seconds. Katie Marinello: He himself only says 24 words of dialogue. He received more fan mail and autograph requests from that scene than for any role he had in the rest of his career. Katie Marinello: He knew Ian McDermott. There was some like rumor that he hadn't seen the first two Star Wars movies. Katie Marinello: That's not actually true. I think that rumor came to be, because when he saw Ian McDermott and was like, Hey, what are you doing here? And he was like, oh, I don't know, something Sci-fi e. Um, but that's because he had to keep it a secret Claire Fisher: Ah. Katie Marinello: Timothy D. Rose is an American actor and puppeteer, best known for playing Admiral Admiral Akbar. Katie Marinello: He reprised his role in the Force Awakens and the Lash Jedi. He also puppeteered the characters of Si noodles, who's one of the musicians in the, Jabba the Hut, palace and salacious crumb. The Court gesture of job of the hu He gets an awful lot of screen time. Uh, [00:17:00] exactly. Katie Marinello: Eric Bowers Field was an American radio dramatist and voice actor. Um, and he actually played, played the Voices of Admiral Akbar and Bib for tuna. Who is the guy who escorts them in Jabba's palace Claire Fisher: I know the name of his species because I'm a geek. Katie Marinello: yes. I just had to throw Caroline Georgina Blackton in here because she plays mamma, AKA, the other woman in the entire universe. Katie Marinello: This is probably, yes, this is probably what she's known for best internationally. But in England, she's known for her role in the British Television Comedy series Brass. And she also played an Agatha in the BBC adaptation of Polder from 2015 to 2018. And then because I recognize this name, Warwick Davis, Claire Fisher: Mm. Katie Marinello: British actor and television presenter. Katie Marinello: He was 12 years old when he played wicket one of the. Ewok. And then he was went on [00:18:00] to be the title character in Willow, the Leprechaun film film series and Professor Philia Litwick and the Goblin Grip Hook in the Harry Potter film series. So he's like kind of a big name Claire Fisher: I Claire Fisher: actually have a piece of trivia about him on this movie. Katie Marinello: oh yeah. Claire Fisher: yeah. Claire Fisher: if you don't mind. After Carrie Fisher's death, he reported that, he remembered he was in a very hot. Thick Ewok costume and between takes, she would bring him cookies and chocolate milk to keep up his blood sugar and his Claire Fisher: strength. And he said quote, she was everything an 11-year-old Ewok could possibly wish Katie Marinello: aw. And then just one more note. You may remember back when we talked about the original Star Wars, we discussed how Kenny Baker almost didn't take the role of R 2D two because his musical act called the mini tone reached, the final on the talent show opportunity knocks. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: So it turns out his partner Jack Purvis. Katie Marinello: His partner in that musical act had gone to the audition with him and they kind of like negotiated so that they could both be hired. And so [00:19:00] Jack, played a different alien in each of the original trilogy, including Tebo, who's one of the Ewoks. Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: Yep. So that is the bottom of the barrel, last minute additions to the Star Wars universe. But you know, some, I mean, especially Ian McDermott, some pretty key characters. Oh, I did wanna say that Sebastian Lewis Shaw died in 1994, so he did not live to see his likeness replaced by Hayden Christensen in the 2004 DVD re-release. Claire Fisher: Hayden Christensen has said he, he didn't fully understand what they were gonna do, like that they were gonna replace the other guy until he saw what they did with the footage he shot. And he was like, dude, how rude to the late Sebastian Shaw? Katie Marinello: It's rude, but it's also like, I mean, Sebastian Shaw looked nothing like, Claire Fisher: No, no. Katie Marinello: like hating Christian and he's not the right age [00:20:00] as what he would've been. So I understand why they did what they did. I thought I had heard that they replaced it when they pulled the, um, when they pulled the helmet off. Katie Marinello: So I'm glad that that didn't happen. Claire Fisher: no, Claire Fisher: no. That would be all wrong. Claire Fisher: All wrong, Katie Marinello: All right. Claire Fisher: all right. Katie Marinello: into return to the Jenna. Yes. This was our favorite when we were growing up. Claire Fisher: For a really important reason. Katie Marinello: Harrison Ford comes back. Claire Fisher: Alright, so before comes back, you were, you were distraught after we watched Empire Strikes Back. Absolutely. Distraught, Katie Marinello: Okay. But we, I think we talked about this on our Empire Stripes back episode. It is genuinely scary Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: scary thing that happens. Claire Fisher: Yeah. But like, we were at home and you were like, two days later you were still upset. And finally I said like, Claire Fisher: mom, what, what day did we see Empire Strikes Back? This is how young I was. I didn't know how to use a calendar. I said, mom, what day did we see Empire Strikes Back? And she said, Sunday, why? Claire Fisher: And I said, I think we should go see Return to the Jedi next Sunday. [00:21:00] And we did. And Katie Marinello: Yeah. We saw this one in theater, so I remember we, we saw Star Wars, as we've said at home and then in theaters. We saw Emperor Strikes back at home only, and then we saw this one in theaters during its re-release. Claire Fisher: So if we wanna divide this up a little bit into chunks I called Act one from opening scene where Darth Vader is dealing with a contractor who's behind schedule up through when Dad said, okay guys, the movie's over, let's go home. Because Java's, barge had just blown up. Katie Marinello: I thought it was over. I was like, oh, that was great. Claire Fisher: Yeah. The heck with the empire. As long as we get Harrison Ford back, we're Katie Marinello: Harrison Ford's back. Everything's fine. Claire Fisher: This first act is the only one that Boba Fe is in. So if you are a Boba fan, if you came back to see Boba fat, you got, you Katie Marinello: There you go. You got to see him die. Claire Fisher: You got to see him tickle, the chin of a girl who's enslaved in Java Palace. Claire Fisher: You got to see him nod [00:22:00] approvingly while a, a bounty hunter is negotiating with Java. Claire Fisher: And then you got to see him die because, uh, Hansel accidentally punctured his jet pack while they were above a very dangerous pit. Katie Marinello: Yes, Katie Marinello: which is fine cause he was gonna die anyway 'cause they killed the entire gang Katie Marinello: of Java people. Claire Fisher: Including all the slaves I might note. Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: yeah, not great. To be fair, it seemed like in this rewatch, Luke goes out of his way. To try to get jaba to not make him kill everybody in the palace. Luke Skywalker: You can either profit by this or be destroyed. It's your choice, but I warn you not to underestimate my power. Claire Fisher: He does Claire Fisher: say this is, Katie Marinello: and over and over. Bargain. Katie Marinello: This is your last chance. Java. This is your last chance. Free us or die. Katie Marinello: Bargain. Bargain. Bargain. Bargain. Claire Fisher: this is the last mistake you'll ever Claire Fisher: make. Claire Fisher: Bargain environment. But [00:23:00] also I think, I think I said this once before, Luke's plan Claire Fisher: to have everybody infiltrate Katie Marinello: Oh my God. It's so stupid. Claire Fisher: one by one by one it okay. Sending your droids in so that they can smuggle your lightsaber in. Alright, I'll Claire Fisher: give him that one. Even though sending three po, I don't know, Katie Marinello: Why don't they ever tell three po the plan, Claire Fisher: because three po never shuts up and he'd tell everyone the plan. Katie Marinello: I guess, but like, he's so for clumped the whole time he can't even do his job. What's to keep Java from disintegrating him while they wait for Luke Skywalker to come rescue him? Claire Fisher: So here's my problem with it. You know, I actually, I like the recorded elevator pitch that Luke sends in. Fine. Luke Skywalker: Greetings exalted. One. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Luke Skywalker Jedi Knight and friend, captain Solo. I know that you are powerful, mighty joba and that your anger with solo must be equally powerful. [00:24:00] I seek an audience with your greatness to bargain for SO'S life Luke Skywalker: with your wisdom. I'm sure that we can work out an arrangement which will be mutually beneficial and enable us to avoid any unpleasant confrontation. As a token of my goodwill, I present to you a gift. These two droids, what did he say? Both are hardworking and will serve you well. Claire Fisher: I've actually used that in ESL classes. This is an example of an elevator pitch and forced my students to critique Luke Skywalker before they start critiquing each other. It's very useful. Don't know why he sent Lando in, I don't know why they needed chew. He sent in, when Leia gets there, she unfreezes Han. So presumably the goal was to have Han walk the heck back out again. Claire Fisher: Which, if he could do that, why didn't you just send Chewy and have Chewy on, free him, sling him over his shoulder and run. Claire Fisher: Right. Katie Marinello: right, right. Claire Fisher: I don't know what Lando does. I still don't know what Katie Marinello: I think Lando had to actually go [00:25:00] find Java, right? So there's not any like indication that they knew exactly where Java's Palace is and it's tattooing, which everything looks the same. So I what I get now that I understand that they leave at the end of the Empire shakes back to find ha is that he had to infiltrate for that. Katie Marinello: However, he appears to have given them no other information, such as there is a secret pit in front of Java's throne or, Claire Fisher: He might not have realized that. Katie Marinello: uh, I mean it appears that Java used it fairly generously. Claire Fisher: I mean, he uses it twice in a day when Katie Marinello: Exactly, exactly. Do we really believe And that and some other, like min of his just falls in there and nobody thinks to do anything about that, so. Claire Fisher: But no, here's my problem with it. When Luke finally shows up, he just mind tricks his way in, Claire Fisher: and then he tries a mind trick on Java Claire Fisher: and he force chokes the guards. If Luke could do all of [00:26:00] that, why didn't they try that Katie Marinello: Start. Start there. Yeah, Katie Marinello: And why, why? I mean so I will say I like Princess Leia in this first act a lot. I like her agency. I mean, obviously she is the hut slayer in this. Katie Marinello: But even when she comes in as a bounty hunter, I feel like she starts from a pretty strong position. However, there's no way she wouldn't have known that that was a trap Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: to walk in there. Katie Marinello: And it's unguarded and there's nobody around. Like, where does she think they are? Katie Marinello: It doesn't appear that jab of the hut can move from his, throne. You know? He clearly naps there. We see that when Luke comes in. So to then unfreeze someone who's gonna be disabled, Katie Marinello: right? Like it makes more sense to grab the slab and go. Katie Marinello: And then unfreeze him when he can recover somewhere that he's not in danger. And when Java shows up and catches them, it's like from behind a [00:27:00] curtain. It's not like they Claire Fisher: He Katie Marinello: had to do anything particularly Yeah, sneaky. Exactly. So, or to believe that she was just blinded by love. Is this part of the plan? Katie Marinello: Luke acts like this is all part of the plan, and I just don't believe that he could have possibly predicted all of these different scenarios. What's going on? Luke? Luke's crazy. He can't even take care of himself much less rescue anybody. Claire Fisher: The relative nonsensical miss of this. Act though I will note three strong moments from it. First of all, lay out Unfreezing Han and saying it's someone who loves you. Katie Marinello: Mm. Who are you? Someone who loves you. Claire Fisher: Very Claire Fisher: touching reunion. Yeah. Second, uh, my personal scariest moment. When I was a kid, I was less affected by the Carbonite than you were, but when Luke fights that fights that ranker [00:28:00] underneath Java throne. Terrifying. Terrifying. Master Luke, you are standing on. Katie Marinello: And our first, lesson in moral relativity. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Ethical relativism was introduced to us when the ranker keeper starts crying and mom said he doesn't wake up every day thinking he's bad. He thinks it's just his job to take care of that rancor. And yes, we now know that there's a sympathetic backstory in the extended universe, Claire Fisher: but we were six and eight and we had to take the movie as a, a text standing on its Claire Fisher: own and Katie Marinello: we'd never seen anyone be sad when a villain died before. Claire Fisher: Right. Well, so it goes to show bad guys don't always know they're bad guys. Claire Fisher: Sometimes they do, Claire Fisher: but sometimes they just think Claire Fisher: they're doing their job Katie Marinello: this guy did know because he knew what the ranker was eating. Claire Fisher: well. Claire Fisher: Because otherwise, why is he crying? Bad guys don't cry. Claire Fisher: Bad guys definitely Katie Marinello: Bad guys definitely cry Claire Fisher: all the time. And then the third epic moment, [00:29:00] Leia slays the Hu Katie Marinello: slay slays the hut. Leia slays the hut, Claire Fisher: Slay queen. Katie Marinello: slay queen. I mean, it's just amazing. Katie Marinello: again, no way that they could have predicted this. Did they know that Leia was gonna end up as a sleigh? Claire Fisher: I don't think they thought they necessarily needed to kill Java. Katie Marinello: right, right. Claire Fisher: Or they thought that maybe that he'd just die when they blew up the barge Katie Marinello: [00:30:00] Yes. 'cause he was trying really hard not to have to kill Java. Right. So he comes off to me, and I think this might be intentional as somebody who's like, read a couple books on Jedi and like. You know, like he studied abroad for a couple of days with Yoda, and now he acts like he's an expert. Katie Marinello: And this is definitely something that has been discussed at length in the literature, what is the gap between Empire shakes back and return to the Jedi. Now, Wikipedia says it's a year, Claire Fisher: But he doesn't go back to Katie Marinello: he doesn't go back to Jaga bus. So what is Katie Marinello: he doing and how does he get so much more powerful that now Yoda says his training is complete Claire Fisher: Yeah. All right, trivia. Katie Marinello: trivia. Go ahead. Claire Fisher: The gold bikini was actually held together by a metal framework, so it didn't move with Carrie Fisher's body and her breasts kept popping out and ruining takes despite this, allegedly, the costume designer created this after Carrie Fisher joked that nobody could tell she was a woman in the first two movies because she wasn't eye [00:31:00] candy. Katie Marinello: Yeah. So there has been a lot of talk about whether she specifically asked for a more really revealing outfit. I mean, I would argue that the white suit that she wears in Empire Shakes back is well fitted to a woman. Claire Fisher: Yeah, but Claire Fisher: it's a snowsuit. Katie Marinello: It's cute though. She looks cute. Katie Marinello: Yeah, so the slaves let, let, should we talk about the slave suit just a little bit? Claire Fisher: Tiny bit. Yeah. Claire Fisher: um, Claire Fisher: a has a presence in the fantasies of quite a few humans. Katie Marinello: what is the, I don't wanna go into this too much because slavery is bad. What is the purpose of having a human sex slave when you are a giant slug? Claire Fisher: Okay, two things. First of all, there is extended universe material that, um, suggests Java is just like that. And the other huts all judge him for effectively being into best reality. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: Two until recent months, I had never read God Emperor of Dune, which is [00:32:00] the fourth book in the Dune series, in which a, human who merged with a sand worm Katie Marinello: Yep. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: is now a long slug like creature with like arms and head. Um. And is probably why Frank Herbert was so convinced George Lucas was ripping him off. 'cause remember, job of the hut did not appear until Return of the Claire Fisher: Jedi. He gets reconned into the first Claire Fisher: one. He was not there until the return of the Jedi. So God, emperor of Dune came out in 1981 and then suddenly in 1983, here's this race called the Huts, which look like slugs, but with arms and a head. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: And in God, emperor of Dune, he falls in love 'cause he used to be a human. And he falls in love with a human woman. Claire Fisher: And every time he says he's going to get married, everybody glances down his body looking for a penis to the point where when one character does it, he says, no, I don't have a penis. [00:33:00] Uh, the point in that book being that he loves her for her mind, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and he says to her, if you require, you know, children. You can have a, a male lover of a human male, but like I'm still in love with you. So A, they're kind of ripping off dune and B, there's more to life than just sex. Katie. Katie Marinello: Yeah, obviously. I guess, I guess it could be seen as like getting a really cute dog. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. People put their poodles in like pirate Katie Marinello: Exactly, exactly. Okay. Yeah, if you look at it that way, Claire Fisher: he puts Leia in Claire Fisher: a bikini. Katie Marinello: yes. Claire Fisher: And Han is blind at this point in the narrative, and notably, Luke makes a point of not saying aloud, what the hell does he have you wearing? Claire Fisher: Right. You see him like, want to, Claire Fisher: and then he doesn't. Claire Fisher: So [00:34:00] that the blind man won't know what this is happening. Claire Fisher: 'cause this is disturbing no matter how you slice it. Claire Fisher: Either she's his dressed up poodle or he's planning on committing bestiality. Right? Katie Marinello: Right. Or she could be entertainment for his guests. You know, we see the other slave dancing Claire Fisher: Yeah. There Claire Fisher: isn't, Katie Marinello: see, uh, we see BBA fat kind of flirt with one of them. So there's that. Claire Fisher: there is a, at least one short story, I, I don't believe it's canonical anymore, but there's at least one short story where like, she's offered to Boba f as like a overnight company. Katie Marinello: Okay. We've officially talked about this more than I want to. Katie Marinello: All right. Claire Fisher: drop the subject. It it, it might just be that they were ripping off God ever, let's hope they were just ripping off dune Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: and that they weren't really looking at the mechanics of this Katie Marinello: So there's like not actually any reason for her to kill Java necessarily 'cause he is [00:35:00] about to die and R 2D two probably could have let her off that chain regardless. But boy is it cool. Claire Fisher: She, yeah. A battle breaks out and she takes advantage of the fact that she is chained to Java to throw that chain around his neck and choke the life out of Claire Fisher: his Katie Marinello: the most graphic death we have in this, in the series. 'cause Katie Marinello: most of them are Claire Fisher: Evil. Katie Marinello: pew, pew. And I do think it causes like more chaos, which is probably what was the goal at that point. Right. And once, once the boss is dead, people start jumping ship and whatever, whatever. Claire Fisher: And then she turns the barges gun on itself Katie Marinello: Which is so cool. Claire Fisher: and blows it to kingdom. Come. Katie Marinello: Technically I did take note that Luke is the one who actually sets it off, but whatever he says, get the, get the gun, she gets the gun and They Katie Marinello: make their triumph. They make their triumphant escape. Claire Fisher: they swing safety clinging to each other in a clawback to the Claire Fisher: movie, uh, from six years earlier. Katie Marinello: Then that's it. That's act one. And it seems like it [00:36:00] could be its own movie, but Claire Fisher: So, act two I said is more or less from like then when Luke goes off to Deba, up through when Mamma explains the plan and that many Hans died to bring us this information. Katie Marinello: Right. Okay. Claire Fisher: Brian said, this is more fuel to the Jedi or incompetent dicks unquote fire Katie Marinello: Because they just disappear. Claire Fisher: because Katie Marinello: on his own. Claire Fisher: Yoda was written into this movie because Lucas was worried, most people would just assume Dar Vader was lying about being Luke's father. Claire Fisher: And so it had to be confirmed by a reliable witness. So they go back to Claire Fisher: Diggaba Katie Marinello: not, but okay. Claire Fisher: and they, he says, is Star Vader my father? Claire Fisher: And Yoda says, which we can cut in. Told you. Did he Unexpected. This is an unfortunate, oh, okay. Hang on. Why in the galaxy far, far away? Would Darth Vader not tell Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: the person he's [00:37:00] trying to manipulate the manipulation, be the, y'all super should have seen this coming even without the Space Wizard, psychic powers that you are supposed to have. That is what hundred, let's present a thing that a manipulative bastard would do. Katie Marinello: right. Also, it's a thing that a father would do. Why are you really gonna come face to face with your long ass son and not tell him? Yeah. I mean, Claire Fisher: Yeah. I mean especially if you think your enemies have been specifically hiding your long last son to the point that they faked his death. Right. Katie Marinello: right. And blamed you for it. Claire Fisher: Exactly. Yeah. I mean Claire Fisher: in, Katie Marinello: getting into prequel lo, but still, Claire Fisher: okay. This is comics between the comics released before the sequels came out. Lore that he had to track down the mortician who prepared pod me's body to find out that she actually hadn't been pregnant when she died. Katie Marinello: oh, Claire Fisher: he spent 20 years thinking Claire Fisher: she died. That, that he killed her while she was [00:38:00] pregnant and that's why he never looked for his kids. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Well, kid, he thought it was one kid, it was two. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: right. Because there were no sonograms in a galaxy far, far away. Claire Fisher: and you can't force sense, the presence of babies. You, yourself created. Katie Marinello: Right, right. Yeah. Katie Marinello: Psychic, but not that psychic. Claire Fisher: or maybe he just wasn't listening. Claire Fisher: Like he seems like the kind of person where like maybe Pad Bay tried to tell him it was twins. Katie Marinello: That's true. That's possible. Claire Fisher: On the same note, like Wan's Ghost pops in again, hi Wan's Ghost and Katie Marinello: why are you here? Everyone's ghost. Claire Fisher: Um, he says things are true from a certain point of view that the most infamous line, which I will defend a certain, to a certain extent, because the Anakin he knew is dead. He cut off Anakin's limbs and then threw him in lava where he promptly caught fire. That is the last he saw of the Anakin he raised who had been a good soldier and a good Jedi ish, uh, and then, and [00:39:00] then went bad, went evil. The sick he killed was an evil guy, Darth Vader. I think possibly in order to live with that. He had to convince himself that Anakin had already been dead when he chopped off the limbs of Dar Vader and threw him into lava, where again, cannot stress this enough, he caught fire. So Obiwan probably left thinking that was him, that was the end of him. Claire Fisher: It is not his fault that it turned out to be, that he could drain the life force from other people to stay alive. Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: Um, anyway, I'll defend to the end that Obiwan is like, eh, sort of justified in his convincing himself that Anakin is dead, Claire Fisher: but. Katie Marinello: Bullshit. He called, he says, Darth Vader killed your father. He doesn't say that your father died. He doesn't say your fa, you know, unfortunately, like he says, there was a young Jedi named Darth Bader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned evil, and he betrayed and murdered your father. [00:40:00] That is not. Katie Marinello: Oh, well, last time I saw him he was dying. Situation. He knows, he knows what he became. Claire Fisher: Let the record reflect that. Katie just recited that from memory. Katie Marinello: did. And I'm quite proud of myself. , I will cut in the actual scene so you can see how good I just did. How did my father die? A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Katie Marinello: I have the same problem with OB one that I have with Yoda, which if you guys didn't see our, we listen and we don't judge video that we posted on Instagram. Check that out. Katie Marinello: 'cause I have an epic rant about Yoda. Katie Marinello: Honestly, I have a problem with the entire Jedi ordered right down to the apparent kidnapping of children to raise them into. Peace warriors, quote unquote, Claire Fisher: Peaceful monks [00:41:00] with laser Katie Marinello: With laser swords. Yeah. Mm-hmm. As all peaceful monks have. Um, so yeah, I find this whole thing stupid. Katie Marinello: The fact that Yoda spends so much time avoiding talking to Luke about these, really essential things that he needs to say. Like, there's another Skywalker. He doesn't bother to say that until his last breath. He is 900 years old, Claire Fisher: He could have written that down Katie Marinello: written it down men. I don't know, maybe when they finally, he finally reveals his, his, true identity to Luke, he could have sat him down and told him the whole damn story. Katie Marinello: That Claire Fisher: That would've, Claire Fisher: been a good time. Katie Marinello: it would've been a good time and also like a great time for Luke, like leaving him. In the dark about all these different secrets, leaves him very vulnerable to the, the dark side of the Katie Marinello: force because it allows him to have anger, hate, betrayal, all that good stuff. Claire Fisher: A sense that he has never once in his life had a positive male role model who wasn't [00:42:00] lying to him about everything. Katie Marinello: right. Yeah. I mean, honestly, Anaan falls, I mean, again, this is prequel lore, 1983, we didn't know all this, but Anakin falls to the dark side for kind of a lot less. Claire Fisher: Well, is the death of your pregnant wife less or more than Katie Marinello: He doesn't fall to, he doesn't fall to the dark side because of his wife's death. He's already on the dark side for that. Katie Marinello: He falls to the dark side because he wants to protect, protect her. Claire Fisher: Yeah, exactly. Okay. So it's protecting your pregnant wife. Katie Marinello: falls, he falls to the dark side because of some bad dreams by this, Katie Marinello: by this, uh, logic, I should be arresting the cast of summer house because of that dream I had the other night. Where they perpetuated the the holocaust. Claire Fisher: I dreamed that mom and dad wanted us to move into a house with 32 roommates. Katie Marinello: and neither of us is evil yet. Claire Fisher: Okay. Well, yeah, that's a good point. I was gonna say. The big [00:43:00] thing, the, the, the thing to me that cements, that obiwan might be like deluding himself, not just lying, is him saying that your sister had to stay, quote, safely anonymous. Leia has not been safely anonymous. Leia has been a thorn invader side since she was old enough to talk. Claire Fisher: He has taken her prisoner twice. Claire Fisher: He has tortured her twice. So it's more like y'all dangled her out as bait, hoping that if she ever got noticed, Vader would think, oh, Claire Fisher: I had a daughter. Katie Marinello: And Katie Marinello: it does not make sense that Darth Vader would be that close to her so many times and not have any idea. Claire Fisher: I mean, except maybe he's just the kind of father who wasn't really paying attention to his children. Katie Marinello: Well, but, but it's well established that he can sense Luke's presence no matter where he is in the universe. Claire Fisher: Okay, now he can, Claire Fisher: he couldn't do that last time. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: So he's developed that, he's leveled up. He, he Claire Fisher: collected some Katie Marinello: So maybe because [00:44:00] he suddenly thought that he existed, so he didn't know that. Okay. Fine, Claire Fisher: He didn't, he he didn't have that power until they had fought each other and he had cut off Luke's hand. Katie Marinello: fine. Um, I did have one little, uh, note about not this, but um, at what point does Han learn that Lando has been working for the good side? Claire Fisher: Yeah, that, that happens off screen. Like while Luke's on Deba. And then when we get back to the fleet. Must point, um, Katie Marinello: it happens even before that. It happens. It, I think it must have happened in the cell with, chewy because he saves Land's Life at the Katie Marinello: end of Act one. I, I forgot to mention this in Act one, but he saves Land's Life. Lando iss about to fall into the Slac pit. He hears his voice 'cause he can't see anything. Katie Marinello: He hears his voice and says Lando, Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: and it goes to great lengths to save him. So [00:45:00] I guess that Katie Marinello: whole betrayal thing is Katie Marinello: just like water under the bridge. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Let's just, uh, be the giants and step over that mountain. Katie Marinello: Also, this, the opening scroll for this movie calls them a small band of rebels, which, I'm sorry, it just looks like a lot of rebels for it to be a small band. And Lando who nobody presumably because he leaves straight from the cloud city to go find Han. Nobody at the base has ever heard of him. Met him, seen him, he gets promoted to general. Katie Marinello: If you were the guy who's next in line to be promoted, how would you feel? Claire Fisher: Well, you know, rank in a rebel alliance can sometimes be a somewhat informal matter. Katie Marinello: I know. Claire Fisher: Okay, so then the, this brings us to the briefing scene Claire Fisher: with, , the famous, , many Bhan died to bring us this information. A woman speaking. Katie Marinello: A woman. Yep. Claire Fisher: To make a long story short, they summarize what the plan [00:46:00] will be. Claire Fisher: Okay. Can I give us some trivia now? All right. So, unlike some sci-fi franchises, we might name Star Wars, never hired a linguist to invent languages with full vocabularies and syntax for its alien characters. Claire Fisher: Instead, it felt to sound designer Ben Burt, to source sounds from real world languages to make up. Gibberish that would sound like alien languages as a result. Hatis that we hear Java speak is mainly, which is a Peruvian inkin language. Claire Fisher: It's also spoken by Guido in the first movie. Interestingly, the Ewoks whom we are about to meet in the next act are speaking of mashup of Tagalog from the Philippines Tibetan, and, and I apologize, I I've tried to figure out how to pronounce this using the international phonetic alphabet, but I've never been any good at the international phonetic alphabet, Cali Mc Orand or, [00:47:00] or, which is a language spoken by a single nomadic community in Mongolia, which Ben Burt happened to hear in A BBC documentary, after which he tracked down an 80-year-old Kali Mc refugee woman and recorded her telling some folk tales, then played the tape for the Ewok actors and had them imitate some of the. Um, phonemes that they heard. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: And in our final act we're going to meet a very minor character who became an unexpected breakout Ian, who co-pilots the Millennium Falcon during the final battle. He has like big Katie Marinello: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yep. Claire Fisher: Yeah. He was played by Kipsang Rodich, a Kenyan student who was living in London at the time, and Kipsang Rodich, , just was told to speak his native language of Kian, which is a high, dialect. 18% of the population of Kenya speaks this language. So [00:48:00] he just put in some lines that were appropriate for the situation, like saying what's going on with the shield? And then Lando saying, Hano, get that shield down. You've just gotta give him more time. Right? Claire Fisher: Because of this, his character became really famous in Africa. Katie Marinello: That's awesome, Claire Fisher: As a result, the character made many, many appearances in the extended universe, now known as Star Wars Legends. Claire Fisher: And Rodich was invited to reprise his role in two of the sequel Trilogy films as n um, grown 30 years older. So, Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: There are things to be said for inventing languages, uh, but I think this also leads to some cute moments too, where like, actually you can be like, oh, hey, I recognize Claire Fisher: that word if you know any of the Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: All Right. so let us come now to Act three, Claire Fisher: which I said Act three is kind of from when the group leaves for Endor up through when Luke leaves to go confront Vader, Katie Marinello: Okay. Katie Marinello: And this is exciting because we've never really seen them all kind of [00:49:00] together except for like. The flight from the Death star to the rebel Katie Marinello: base in the fourth movie, first movie. So I remember being very excited that, oh, Han, Luke and Leia and Chewy and C3 PO and R 2D two are all gonna be together on this mission. Claire Fisher: Doesn't make sense 'cause RTG two's an ASEC droid. What were they hoping to do with it? Katie Marinello: it makes no sense. Well, I guess they were hoping to break into the bunker or whatever. 'cause he does, they do have him do that Anyway, none of it makes sense because also we're all was their whole team on that tiny little ship? Claire Fisher: No, just the command crew for the shuttle is Claire Fisher: the people we know, Katie Marinello: No, I know, but like all the rest of the people, so they, because there's this whole scene where they're Katie Marinello: trying to like, get past the empire. Claire Fisher: the rest of them snuck in with supply deliveries. It's vaguely suggested. Katie Marinello: Oh, okay. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So, that sequence [00:50:00] is also where we find out that Luke Vader can sense each other's presence on ships across open space. Claire Fisher: This is not explained. Claire Fisher: Ask no more questions. You'll be told No more lies. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And then there's speeder chase, which looked so cool when I was a kid. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. I was like, wow. I'm sure that there's like a thousand video games of this, but it would be so cool to try to do this. Katie Marinello: Wait, how do we get to the speeder chase? Claire Fisher: They land and then they get caught by a storm trooper patrol and they leave to go report in Katie Marinello: Right. And they try to get them to not report Ed. Claire Fisher: which they, they do, they don't report in Leia. We've seen Leia shoot at Storm Troopers back in the first movie, but Claire Fisher: Leia actually kills a couple of people in Claire Fisher: this chase. She tricks 'em into crashing. She hits one with a branch. She shoots one. Uh, yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: But in so doing, she gets. Separated from Claire Fisher: the men. Katie Marinello: so Luke, Luke and Le are on the same speeder. Luke jumps onto a speeder that already has [00:51:00] the storm trooper on it, throws him off, cuts the something off of the, the wings off of one of the other Claire Fisher: Stabilize their wings. Katie Marinello: Sure. And yeah, then she passes out, which is interesting because when they all fall out of a tree later on, they don't all pass out Claire Fisher: Well, she befriends an Ewok who finds her passed out, and it's probably better not to ask why the Ewoks have a full outfit in her size back at their base, Claire Fisher: the Ewoks who. Katie Marinello: she does change. It's true. Claire Fisher: They have set traps for humanoids all over this planet, presumably in hopes of getting the storm troopers because they've been invaded by storm Claire Fisher: troopers and like, dude, rude. Um, but like did they capture a female storm trooper in her nightgown? Claire Fisher: Is that why LAIs suddenly wearing a flimsy white dress? Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: Where did the hair ribbons come from? Katie Marinello: Well, hair ribbons I could see. Anyway. Since this is a Carrie Fisher podcast, let's talk about the scene between her [00:52:00] and is that Wicked, the one who finds her? Claire Fisher: Yes, that's, the one played by Warwick Davis. Katie Marinello: Little bit of trivia that I found that I knew, I think, but I forgot the word. Ewok is never uttered in this movie, and none of the characters are named except into the, in the credits. So we'll call him Wicked, but she never calls 'em anything. Claire Fisher: She doesn't speak his language. Katie Marinello: So what do you think about this scene? What are we to learn about Leia and about the Ewoks? Katie Marinello: Start from the scene. Claire Fisher: Um, she gives him some Claire Fisher: food, which is like the universal given alien some food Claire Fisher: and pray they don't have allergies. Claire Fisher: Uh, that's, I mean, that's et that's one scene in Stargate. Um, I mean, just if you meet a stranger, offer them some of your food and she takes a bite of it to prove it's Claire Fisher: okay. right. Claire Fisher: And then gives it to him. 'cause she intuits that he is poking her with a spear, not to be aggressive, but because he's afraid. Claire Fisher: [00:53:00] And in all fairness, his planet has been invaded by storm troopers and those are the first humanoids they've probably ever seen. Right? Katie Marinello: Possibly. Yeah. Though, I mean, they have no problem eating them, so who knows? Yeah. Yeah. 'cause he is very jumpy and she's very much like, I'm not gonna hurt you. Claire Fisher: And she notices, oh, you're a little guy, aren't you? And I mean, I guess it's implied. He's like a teenage Ewok. 'cause he's even shorter than the other Ewoks. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I mean, it would be hard to hurt something with those big eyes. Claire Fisher: the Ewoks are adorable. Katie Marinello: They're so cute. Claire Fisher: how awesome did that Tree City look when we were Katie Marinello: So Claire Fisher: Wouldn't you have wanted to live there Katie Marinello: And The little itty bitty baby Ewa Ewoks when they're telling Claire Fisher: Oh, I'm, to this day, I'm very impressed by the level of detail they went into for the Ewoks. Who could, who could totally be a throwaway plot device. Katie Marinello: easily. Yeah. Katie Marinello: and I know that, that the Ewoks are controversial amongst the sci-fi [00:54:00] bros who claim this movie as their own. I literally see no problem with that. Claire Fisher: There's no problem with, I mean, Han says Short helps better than no Claire Fisher: help. Like. They for once in the whole series, they acknowledged that humans landing on strange planets that are already inhabited by c races are gonna have to make some alliances. Claire Fisher: right. There's also, I mean, there's a very, very dark real world subtext, which is the way that the US Infantalized, the Hmong and other tribes that sided with us during the Vietnam War Claire Fisher: and then sold them out completely and left them behind to be slaughtered. Claire Fisher: This is almost an opportunity to try to rewrite that, to have a happy ending. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: And for a franchise that has been so technologically driven this whole time, it's, in my opinion, very cool [00:55:00] to see kind of a more sticks and stones and spears and, bows and arrows. You know, I, I wouldn't even call it primitive, just not futuristic, Claire Fisher: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's also the Ewoks did not set this up all in one night. I was thinking as I watched some of the like contraptions, they Claire Fisher: have that with like multiple logs loaded. So like the Ewoks were already like arming themselves to get the empire off their F and moon. Claire Fisher: Right. , and it just so happens that that means they get to, you know, be on the same side as the Rebel Alliance. Claire Fisher: But if the Rebel Alliance hadn't shown up Storm troopers were still going down baby. Right. Katie Marinello: have some questions about their religion. Like, uh, why don't you listen to a God when he says, please don't eat these people who are my friends? And also, I have some questions about their dietary habits because, um, how are they gonna eat R 2D two? Claire Fisher: I don't know if they knew how they were gonna get RTD too, honestly. Katie Marinello: I gotta say one of my favorite Harrison [00:56:00] Ford moments is when he tries to blow out The Claire Fisher: the torch that they're Katie Marinello: torch that they're using to set Katie Marinello: the Claire Fisher: cook? Yeah. Katie Marinello: And boy do they forgive them quickly. Claire Fisher: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So three po and Han handle a tactical conversation with the Ewoks, like three po tells the story, and then Han like asks a bunch of questions like about how the Ewoks can help. Meanwhile, Luke and Leia are having a much more personal, conversational, along the lines of, do you realize you're my sister? Katie Marinello: I sort of forgot this entire scene happened. I mean, I re Katie Marinello: I mean, no, that's not true, but there's something about it that I was like, huh, I don't know. Like, yes, obviously I remember him telling her he is a sister. I remember the whole, do you have any memories of your mother? I remember when I was little being like, oh, look at that. Katie Marinello: They finally acknowledged that if Jeff Bader's their father, there must have been a mother at some point. They don't really ever explain that Aleah knew she was adopted. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: And of course, [00:57:00] in retrospect, how could she possibly have any memories of her mother? Claire Fisher: She had memories of her adoptive mother. Katie Marinello: Right. But he said, he says, your real mother. Claire Fisher: yeah, Claire Fisher: that's, her adoptive father remarried, so she thought he was talking about Claire Fisher: her first adoptive mother, is the explanation you get if you ask too many questions. Katie Marinello: right. Yeah. Let's, let's take the extended universe out of this. Katie Marinello: Let's, let's read the text. Claire Fisher: Reading the text. They both remarkably quickly accept this. Katie Marinello: they've always known, which does make the making out a little strange. Claire Fisher: Yeah. But the making out was performative, so Katie Marinello: The first time, Claire Fisher: Yeah. Claire Fisher: No, they didn't make out again, they just kissed the second Katie Marinello: okay. Well, the second time she still kisses him on the lips. She doesn't have to, Claire Fisher: Okay. But I mean, you can, like, a quick peck is not like inherently a sexual Katie Marinello: I guess. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Anyway, then they have a weird conversation where like he, he says he [00:58:00] has to go confront Vader and if he fails, it's gonna be up to her to come and confront Vader, with uh, no further tactical planning. So, you know, you'll be on your own. And she says, why don't we just run away instead? Claire Fisher: Which to be fair. There may be some sense of that. Claire Fisher: Um, Katie Marinello: say, let's run away. She says he should run away. Claire Fisher: yeah, Katie Marinello: Leia Organic does not run away. She Katie Marinello: says, Claire Fisher: thinks maybe if he runs away Katie Marinello: away. If he can sense you, then just leave this place and go away. She never says she's gonna run away. Claire Fisher: but then she says, I wish I could go with you. Katie Marinello: To confront Badder. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Right. So I, I just got the sense that whatever Luke decided in this moment, she wishes Katie Marinello: Oh, no. Katie Marinello: no. Claire Fisher: She wishes she could help him. Katie Marinello: She wishes she could help him. Absolutely. But I don't Katie Marinello: believe she would ever run away from the Rebel alliance. This is, her whole life Katie Marinello: has been this re rebellion[00:59:00] Claire Fisher: yeah, Katie Marinello: and continues to be, as we know for the rest of her life. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Claire Fisher: She has to stay. He's gonna go see if he can take down Vader and then Han walks in. And is a Katie Marinello: honestly, this is the most like realistic scene. I think that there is between the three of them. Claire Fisher: No, no, no, no, no. It's realistic, but it's depressing Katie Marinello: Yeah, Claire Fisher: walks in and is immediately a jealous, insecure jerk. Claire Fisher: And there has been no sign that Leia has any interest in Luke Claire Fisher: in this entire movie. She risked heaven and earth to get Han out Claire Fisher: and repeated how much she loved him. When he gets freed from almost being eaten by an Ewok, she immediately runs to kiss him. Claire Fisher: She snuggles with him by the campfire, Claire Fisher: and then like 15 minutes later, she has to go have a private conversation with someone else with whom she has a fully separate relationship. And Han Freaks out. Could you tell Luke? Is [01:00:00] that who you could tell? I find insecure men so irritating, Katie Marinello: irritating. But again, I just felt it was a very human moment for them, and, Claire Fisher: too human. Katie Marinello: he does immediately regret it. I do remember when I was little, not understanding what he was so mad about, but I get it now, and I, I don't even know that he thought, well, I guess later we know that he thought that they were gonna end up together, but it's, it seemed to be more like, oh, well you can tell your secrets to your friend, but you can't tell them to me. Katie Marinello: And I don't know. It's just a very human moment. Again, not in a, like a good way. Claire Fisher: All right. Before Act four, one more piece of trivia. Although David PRUs and James Earl Jones share once again shared the role of Darth Vader in the climactic dual in the, throne room, the Emperor's throne room, he was actually played by Sword Master Bob Anderson in Platform Shoes. Since that accounts for most of his screen time in this movie, that means that Bob Anderson played Darth Vader for like a [01:01:00] lot of this movie. Katie Marinello: Much of it. Yeah. Claire Fisher: All right. Which brings us to Act four, which is a very, very cool act. Katie Marinello: Is it, tell me more. Claire Fisher: Well, it's a three-way war Katie Marinello: Uh, Claire Fisher: because Luke Luke's, okay, so Luke, the setup is, Luc is surrender. Sue's father have a little, like, you know, I feel the good in you. Come back to the light side, like, you know, don't do this. Don't keep doing this, I guess. 'cause he's already been bad for a long Claire Fisher: long Katie Marinello: long time Claire Fisher: and I will not Claire Fisher: turn, you'll be forced to kill me, blah, blah, blah. Lando not knowing all that's gone down with the ewoks and the getting captured and the being mistaken for Gods, and the being nearly eaten and the blah, blah, blah, Lando hopes. That Hans team has gotten that shield down, the shield generator down. So Lando comes to lead the aerial attack, run on the new death star. Meanwhile, there's a ground assault going on by Han Leia, Ewoks at all, because they ain't got that shield down yet. Claire Fisher: [01:02:00] Right? And third, there's a battle for the soul where Luke Darth Vader and the Emperor are having a philosophical conversation, missionary meeting slash sword fight. Which is interesting because the emperor makes pretty clear only two of them are leaving this room, right? Like Katie Marinello: Eventually. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. either Luke's gonna fall to the dark side or Luke's gonna die. Claire Fisher: And if he falls to the dark side, his first act is gonna have to be to kill either the Emperor or Darth Vader. This is later explained that the STH Only ever operate Katie Marinello: Only ever of two. Yeah. Katie Marinello: I think he doesn't really mention, like, he doesn't really make that clear, I think until like towards the end he says, Katie Marinello: take your father's, take your father's place. Claire Fisher: he says, pick up your lights saber and strike me down with it. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And he says, kill your father. Take his place at separate Claire Fisher: times. But it, it's pretty clear they aren't all coming out of this on their [01:03:00] own feet. Claire Fisher: So Katie Marinello: So I see a lot of parallels between Luke and the emperor here in that both of them act like they've seen it all. Right? That they like, well, Luke in the beginning acts like everything has gone according to his plan. And the emperor throughout the entire movie and especially here, says everything is happening as I foreseen. Katie Marinello: And I'm like, I'm sorry, you saw all of this like, like. Claire Fisher: including the part where you lose. Katie Marinello: You planned all of this. Are you sure? And they're just like watching this battle happen Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: and I don't know if I were the emperor of the entire, galaxy, I, even though I think I'm safe, I probably would've evacuated. Katie Marinello: But Claire Fisher: No, no, no. You're not enough of an egotistical Katie Marinello: No, that's true. I'm not. And yeah, I mean, again, with the lore that we know now, why wouldn't he think that he was ordained by the force to be emperor forever? Claire Fisher: All right. [01:04:00] Many, many years ago when we were small Claire Fisher: and watching this, you said to me, the dark side is too mean to have friends. The emperor says at this point, your faith in your friends is your weakness To, to Luke. This final act is very cool because it's a win for the power of teamwork, Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: hate Claire Fisher: friendship, Katie Marinello: It is, however, however, did Luke have to go face Darth Vader? Claire Fisher: for his own peace of mind, maybe uh, but not necessarily, not inherently. Katie Marinello: Like I don't really feel like he had anything to do with this battle because Claire Fisher: No, no, no. He's not in a battle. He's not in the battle for destroying the death star. He's in the battle for destroying the sth. If he can Claire Fisher: bring, if he can get the emperor dead and anaan back to the good side, the Jedi win. Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: So he is [01:05:00] winning a, he's on a battle for the soul. He is not trying to get the death star Katie Marinello: Right. But regardless, they're all gonna be blown up soon. So I'm not sure that it really Claire Fisher: he Katie Marinello: matters, except that perhaps you could argue that he distracted the Emperor and Darth Vader so that they couldn't see that they were losing the battle. Claire Fisher: No. Luke says, soon I'll be dead. And you with me? Luke went Claire Fisher: into that Katie Marinello: I know. That's what I'm saying. Claire Fisher: he, thought they were all three going to get blown up, Katie Marinello: Yeah, I know. Claire Fisher: But he thought it was worth it if he could save their souls. Katie Marinello: that makes no sense. Claire Fisher: I know that's where it falls apart, but it's looks super cool. It is. I mean, they are sword fighting up and down stairs. Claire Fisher: He kicks Darth Vader in the chest. Katie Marinello: all very, very Katie Marinello: cool. And then he go, they play a little bit of, they play a little bit of hide and seek. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Katie Marinello: can't hide forever, Luke. Claire Fisher: you have a twin sister and you know, I, I, Katie Marinello: No. Claire Fisher: that line. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I just feel that he, I mean, I guess, yeah, his, [01:06:00] his whole, his destiny is never really to be a part of the rebellion. His destiny is to bring back the Jedi. Claire Fisher: Yeah, this plan works 'cause they all work on their own thing but with the common goal of overthrowing the empire, right? Claire Fisher: So like Han's getting that shield generator blown up, Han et al Lando at Katie Marinello: Whoa, whoa, Whoa, whoa, Leia getting that. Claire Fisher: But like Lando keeps saying, Han will get that shield Claire Fisher: down. We've gotta give 'em more Katie Marinello: right. But this is a Carrie Fisher podcast Claire Fisher: All right. So Leia, Katie Marinello: at all. Claire Fisher: cetera are work at, are getting that shield generator blown Claire Fisher: up. Lando is holding off the entire star fleet. To give some time to buy some time for that to Katie Marinello: This is, in my opinion, a more interesting battle than the first death start battle because there's, like you said, more tactics to it, right? Like, draw the fire out, try and, and everybody doesn't die. Katie Marinello: Right? It's not like the whole, like with Luke, you know, it's like the whole fleet is wiped out. Katie Marinello: That's not the case here.[01:07:00] Claire Fisher: No, uh, well, yeah. And, wedge, anes, becomes the only guy to Claire Fisher: survive both attack runs. Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: I don't know when I was a kid and now the last 40 minutes of this movie are like the coolest part 'cause it's just they're all fighting and they've all got some fire lines in. Claire Fisher: He'll have that shield down in no time or this will be the shortest offensive of all time. Not bad for a little fur ball, et cetera, et cetera. Katie Marinello: Yeah. And the Ewok battle is just so cool. Claire Fisher: The Ewok battle, I mean, talk about, you have the tech, but we know the land, Claire Fisher: right? Katie Marinello: And, when they get caught yet again by the storm troopers and Leia shows Han that she has a gun Claire Fisher: mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: and he says, I love you. So it's Katie Marinello: not so she gets to say her I know, but also it's because she's being clever. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: being smart and tactical and gonna get them out of this mess. Katie Marinello: It's not for any, you know, physical or other reason. Claire Fisher: [01:08:00] Okay, so. Then the final ending. Trivia alert, according to Gary Kurtz, who produced the first two movies, but then parted ways with George Lucas of there are conflicting reports as to why. Um, but he says that he was with the production long enough to see the original treatment for Return of the Claire Fisher: Jedi. Claire Fisher: And he says the original treatment was going to be Luke Skywalker walking off alone and exhausted like the hero in a spaghetti western going into seclusion in the tattoo desert. But according to him, George Lucas wanted a happier ending to encourage higher merchandise sales. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Yep. I read that. Claire Fisher: But I think it's interesting that by the time of the sequel trilogy, we find Luke exhausted and Claire Fisher: living in seclusion Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: and not selling any merchandise. So the ending then. Okay. That's the other thing. When know I was a little kid who doesn't love a good dance party with Claire Fisher: all their Katie Marinello: party is fabulous. Claire Fisher: and Katie Marinello: I actually, I'm, I'm gonna say something [01:09:00] controversial. I actually really like seeing all the other planets celebrating Claire Fisher: Oh Katie Marinello: of the empire. Claire Fisher: yeah. Claire Fisher: I mean, cool. Katie Marinello: well, it's not controversial for you. It's controversial I think in the fandom because it was yet another thing. I don't like that they, shortened the dance party for it, because, like you said, the dance party is epic. Katie Marinello: Oh, by the way, shout out to Nora yet again. I ran into her today at a protest and I said to her, you know, it took me decades to realize that the Ewoks ate the, storm troopers. And she said. I think I'm just learning that now, Claire Fisher: Okay. Uh, was I the only 6-year-old who, Claire Fisher: no, I know I'm not the only one. 'cause last summer I taught a kid like a 22-year-old Russian kid that, the bad guy from Highlander and the voice of Mr. Krabs are the same person. Claire Fisher: And he said, wow, I knew this class was gonna be life changing, but not that life changing. Claire Fisher: And I said. Next you gonna tell me you didn't know the OX eight storm troopers and he said, no, of course. The OX eight to the [01:10:00] storm troopers. He's like, they're using , their helmets for drums. Claire Fisher: Like where else do they Claire Fisher: end up? Yeah. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Never really, I honestly didn't occur to me to think too much about it, but yeah. That makes sense Katie Marinello: because they, Claire Fisher: the Ewoks have definitely cooked and eaten the storm troopers and are serving them up at the dance party with the rebels. Katie Marinello: so do we think the rebels ate the storm troopers? Claire Fisher: Almost certainly. Yeah. Um, PO Damon's mother is canonically at that party too. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah, Claire Fisher: Yeah. Claire Fisher: She's one of, you know, the women in the briefing where mamma explains the plan. Claire Fisher: There are several female, X-Wing pilots seen in the background, but then they're not shown during the battle sequence. Katie Marinello: of course Claire Fisher: ,at least one woman filmed a scene for it, but it was cut and for unclear reasons. Uh, but canonically, one of them is the mother of Oscar Isaac's character in the sequel trilogy. So she totally ate Storm Troopers at that dance party while Han and Layo were in one of [01:11:00] the bathrooms conceiving Kylo run. This is now Can, and I will take no questions. Katie Marinello: bathroom. God, there were huts everywhere, Claire Fisher: Yep. But okay. You all know anyone who's been to even one dance knows that people hook up in the bathrooms. Katie Marinello: of course. Um, okay. And then the final scene is when. Yoda and Obi One, and whichever version of Anakin Skywalker you wanna see, show up and kind of smile and approve at Smile Approvingly at Luke, who then goes back to join the party. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Having burned Katie Marinello: Yeah, we didn't talk about burning the, the, um, armor, Katie Marinello: but nor did we talk about the, you were right about me. Claire Fisher: Oh yeah. That two minute scene that Sebastian Shaw's so famous for. Katie Marinello: Let's back up, Claire Fisher: Let's back up. Katie Marinello: because we actually didn't talk about the big moment of redemption for Dy Vader either. Claire Fisher: [01:12:00] All right. Yeah. Okay. We have to talk about that. I know because, Katie Marinello: Very important, very important question. Is it enough, right? Claire Fisher: well, the dark side is too mean to have friends. As you have Claire Fisher: said, Vader has far fewer reasons to be loyal to Palpatine than he has reasons to care about his son's life. Even if those reasons are entirely selfish, like, oh, my son is part of me, blah, blah, blah, right? Or he's the last part of his mother, Claire Fisher: or whatever. And in fact, Palpatine has by this point made it clear that only two of them are leaving this throne room and he doesn't care which two. And the force Ghost of Vatican Skywalker decides it's gonna be me and my son, not me, and the guy who pulled me to the dark side. So he picks up Palpatine and in the original, he doesn't say a word in the remake. Claire Fisher: He shouts, no, Claire Fisher: no dramatic. Okay. In the original, without another word, he scoops up palpatine and flings him [01:13:00] over a railing to his death, apparent death. Anyway, I Katie Marinello: Yeah. Really should have just split 'em in two, but I guess that wouldn't have worked either because of other prequel, Laura, that we won't talk about. Claire Fisher: entirely, he does this apparently because Luke shouts Father, please. Katie Marinello: Nevermind that Luke has been begging him for, I don't know how long this whole thing lasts, but from the moment he gets to Darth Vader, you know, you're not gonna kill me father. You can't kill me. You're good. Blah, blah, blah. Then they go through this whole fight scene. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Katie Marinello: it's just like watching him being electrocuted to death was the final straw for you. Katie Marinello: And by Katie Marinello: the way, I was thinking about this Katie Marinello: in 1983 and in 1997, you don't know that forced lightning is a thing. It's gen. It's genuinely scary. Claire Fisher: the first time I saw the turn of the jet, I was like, oh my God, he's shooting lightning out of his hands. Claire Fisher: I had nightmares about it. Katie Marinello: I think with the addition of the prequels, [01:14:00] it maybe has less of an impact because they do use it in the prequels. Katie Marinello: But yeah, it's, it's scary Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: and yeah. I mean, it is a very dramatic, like, death scene, Claire Fisher: And Luke is in Claire Fisher: terrible pain, obviously. And Vader who was burned alive as a young man, sees the son burning alive, kills Palpatine, and then has a touching reconciliation with his son. Luke actually tries to get Darth Vader off the Death Star, Claire Fisher: like he thinks he's gonna take Anakin. Claire Fisher: I don't know what explanation he's gonna offer to Claire Fisher: the rest of the universe, right. Katie Marinello: , and like, have a relationship with this man who has repeatedly tried to kill both him and his sister Claire Fisher: Yeah, I Claire Fisher: mean, I guess Katie Marinello: the entire universe. Yeah. Claire Fisher: he could take him to be tried. I don't know. But he, he does try to, you see him trying to, in his weakened state, try to lift him and get him to a shuttle where he can take him off the Death [01:15:00] Star. But Darth Vader Anakin, right? Says, no, let me look at you with my own eyes. So take my, my helmet off and then leave me behind. So Anakin doesn't think that killing Palpatine was enough. Like he doesn't think he can go back and have a life again. Katie Marinello: Well, I think that's objectively true, but he's also dying, Claire Fisher: Well, he got hit with the forced lightning when he picked Palp up. And since he lives in an iron lung, Claire Fisher: the EMP was a bad thing. Yeah. Katie Marinello: I mean, he, he, he dies in front of him. That's why he has the armor. Tell your sister, you were right about, you. Were right about me. And then he dies, Claire Fisher: But before that, he says, go, leave Claire Fisher: me. Just tell your sister I you were right. So he knows he's dying. He just wants to have some last words as himself instead of as the man in the iron mask. Claire Fisher: Right, Katie Marinello: it's not enough, in my opinion. It is a beautiful, very like Christian moment, you know, if you're looking at this as an allegory [01:16:00] that you can be saved at the last moment. But mean, he's destroyed entire planets. And the more we build out the universe, the more comic books and TV shows and all the stuff that there's, the more and more and more truly horrific things that he's shown to do. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Saving your son, who, like you said, is part of you. Katie Marinello: Right. I'm not sure that that, or, and killing the emperor who's, yes, that would be great, but he's likely to die anyway. I dunno. It's so, it's never quite sat right with me, I don't think. And as I get older and older, I'm like, really? If he wanted to redeem himself, he should have gone and faced trial. Katie Marinello: Right? Like he Katie Marinello: should have been able to go and, and reconcile. But that doesn't make for a very good movie. Claire Fisher: Dying is easy. Living is harder, right? Uh, Katie Marinello: to that. Yeah. Claire Fisher: yeah. Um, redemption equals death. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: I should have looked [01:17:00] this up. I didn't. I, but I have at some point heard that Jediism was not meant to be based on Christian ideals. It was meant to be based, based more on Buddhism. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. No, I don't think Jedi ideals are, but the, you know, 12 step. Cycle of the hero, which is not necessarily a Christian thing, but has that kind of moment of redemption Claire Fisher: Yeah. But I think the reason why he might appear in the afterlife is that the Jedi might have the Buddhism thing going on where like you go to the afterlife and then you'll come back as like, you, you, you'll have another chance to Claire Fisher: live a better life. I maybe, Claire Fisher: I don't know. I mean, there, there's some very extended lore on, on the philosophy of the Jedi and how the living force and force ghost work. Claire Fisher: Uh, none of which we're gonna discuss here because frankly we don't remember what it is. So, um, Katie Marinello: in my defense, I never knew what it was. Claire Fisher: yeah. There's a cryptic line in revenge of the sth. I guess it's only cryptic if you try to take the [01:18:00] movies of standalone texts and don't bother to read all of the supplemental materials. But apparently not everybody can become a forest ghost. Claire Fisher: But one of the people who knew how to become a forest ghost was Claire Fisher: quite a GaN Gin. who discovered Anakin in the first place. And we know from the sequels that Palpatine knows how to become a force ghost and bring himself back to life. So if anybody has a hack for getting to the afterlife, it might be the kid who was taught by the two of them, AKA outta a kids Skywalker, Katie Marinello: yeah. Whatever. I'm, I'm fine Katie Marinello: with him standing next to, you know, I'm fine with it. It's fine. It, I don't love it, but it's fine. I do like that they made it. Hayden Christensen. Claire Fisher: mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: It is what it is. Can we just say, I hope Hayden Christiansen is having a nice day. Claire Fisher: And I hope Jake Lloyd is having a nice day. Katie Marinello: Um, Katie Marinello: 'cause [01:19:00] we're, we're not gonna be discussing the prequels again, so we might Katie Marinello: as well say it now. Claire Fisher: Uh, for those of, Katie Marinello: We, will defend the prequels at a different time, in a different life, in a different podcast because Carrie Fisher is not in them. But we do, we both feel, and I, I'll speak for myself, feel that there are redeeming qualities to the prequels that we're not maybe noticed or celebrated in their time. Katie Marinello: But with hindsight, there's some interesting parts. Actually, we liked them when we saw them, so we can't even say that Claire Fisher: well, we were the target audience Claire Fisher: for liking them when we saw them. I was eight. But, um, I will say just for the audience listening at home. That my sister will not allow mention of the prequels to pass without us pausing to say that we hope Hayden Christensen and Jake Lloyd are having a nice day wherever they are. Katie Marinello: Because this, those movies ruined their lives, especially Jake Lloyd. Claire Fisher: I mean, Jake Lloyd really ruined his life Claire Fisher: to be a child star that way. Claire Fisher: So, um, Katie Marinello: So the, the backlash against [01:20:00] those movies is not only unwarranted, it has had real harm, Katie Marinello: so. Claire Fisher: And so we hope that they're both safe and among friends. One more piece of trivia before we do the Hots sl. Katie Marinello: Go for it. Claire Fisher: Okay. In some early teaser posters, the subtitle was Revenge of the Jedi. This inspired the producers of Star Trek two to change the subtitle of their movie From Revenge of Khan to Wrath of Khan. But then after Wrath of Khan came out, but before Return to The Jedi came out, the producers of Star Wars reconsidered and thought, oh, Jedi aren't really like the vengeance types and made it return to the Jedi. Ironically, Kahan really is the vengeance type, Claire Fisher: so he or he earned the revenge of Kahan. Right. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: But wrath of Kahan is good Katie Marinello: Raton is an epic name and I think that was the right decision. But I had read that it was Return of the Jedi, and then somebody had said it was like not a very strong title, so they made it Revenge of the the Jedi, and then they moved, they changed it back. I don't know if that's [01:21:00] true. Katie Marinello: Who knows? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Well, I remember when Revenge of the STH came out, everybody's like, oh, Claire Fisher: don't you mean return of the sth Katie Marinello: right. They finally got that that word back in there. Claire Fisher: Revenge, revenge. Katie Marinello: All right. Let us, let us. Rate the hut slayer because I think there can only be one answer to this. Claire Fisher: Five. Katie Marinello: Fives across the board baby. She slays a hut. And I actually think, especially because I was going into a very on edge after seeing the big step back and characterization that she takes in Empire Sha back. Katie Marinello: I think this movie did her justice. I think she gets her own moments, her own agency. And yes, she ends up with the guy in the end, but it's not like, like he clearly loves her for her tactical brilliance in addition to her. And he never saw her, never saw her in the gold bikini. So he can't say it was that. Claire Fisher: Everybody else saw in the gold bikini though, and whew.[01:22:00] Katie Marinello: and boy, did that become a thing? Yes. Claire Fisher: I think those of us who have any amount of attraction to women, had thoughts about that gold bikini Claire Fisher: when we were Terri Gross: know at the time why I was intrigued by the gold bikini, but oh boy. Was I, , we should probably cut in the clip of Carrie Fisher talking about that guy who said he's, he thought, thought of her every day from the ages 12 to 16 or whatever, As you've pointed out in Star Wars, you were the only girl in an all boy fantasy. When did you start realizing that you were part of boys' sex Fantasy? Carrie Fisher: Not until way later, and I'm very glad of that. Carrie Fisher: Like about, I don't know, maybe eight years ago, some guy said to me, I thought about you every day from when I was 12 to when I was 22, and I said, every day. And he said, well, four times a day. Carrie Fisher: And you know, what do you say to that? Thank you. Claire Fisher: [01:23:00] Four times a Katie Marinello: four times a day. Anyway, she's a sex symbol. Sure. She has some, uh, I, I wouldn't say control of her sexuality, but she is a sex symbol for part of this movie, but she is. Katie Marinello: Herself and herself is a badass as she is. Five huts layers for me. Claire Fisher: Hus, LAER, Ewok, BeFriender, crasher of Speeders Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Warrior and, diplomat, which she has been since the beginning Claire Fisher: and Lover. Katie Marinello: and love her, and soon mother, but not for another Woo boy. Several, Claire Fisher: Nine months and 32 years. Katie Marinello: several other movies we have to get through before we can get there. Claire Fisher: So what are we talking about next time? Katie Marinello: We are talking about Garbo [01:24:00] talks. Claire Fisher: Never heard of it. Katie Marinello: Me neither. So we will find out what that's about for next time. But in the meantime, Just Katie Marinello: remember, Katie Marinello: if my life weren't funny, it would just be true. Claire Fisher: and that's unacceptable. Katie Marinello: Good night, Claire Fisher: May the force be with you. Katie Marinello: and also with you. Katie Marinello: Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod You can email us at awaycarriedpod@gmail.com You can follow Claire deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie katiedaway We are proud to be part of the 12 24 network. You can join fans and creators from the Network on Discord by clicking the link in the show notes. Katie Marinello: All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week, and may the force be with you.​[01:25:00] And now our space Grandma, wisdom of the week. Terri Gross: Um, so you, you, you describe yourself as having a pattern of being obsessed with inaccessible men for Carrie Fisher: I know, but I'm 19 at that time. Terri Gross: Right. Carrie Fisher: I have no pattern. I had one boyfriend when I read that I, I felt so sorry for myself at that age. I mean, how can I have a pattern if I had one boyfriend? Carrie Fisher: But that's, I guess, how it felt to me. You know, it was as intense as a pattern instead of as a choice. I don't know. ​