AK!: On today's episode of ADHD20, I hope I'm wearing fireproof pants, cause
Matt's about to haul me into the hot seat!
Hehehehe!
Matt: Oh no, Not again.
AK!: Hi, Mattie.
Matt: how
much did that pack of hands cost?
AK!: Like, $7!
Matt: How much joy received?
AK!: Endless!
Like you don't even know how much fun my life is now that I have
beaucoups of tiny hands, okay?
Matt: man.
I just
AK!: Welcome to ADHD20, a podcast that sits at the intersection of ADHD.
Matt: TTRPGs.
My name is Matt, And I have ADHD.
AK!: And my name is Alison and I have very little hands.
Matt: dude, I was hoping you were gonna say that.
AK!: Tiny hands, one might even say.
Matt: We know each other and we do the things.
Um, hey Alison, how
AK!: It's, it's, it's been a while.
Matt: been a while.
since I've been Yes.
AK!: How am I?
Scared.
Matt: Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I bet you are.
I bet you are.
This is a very, important
AK!: This is a very, you know, you have, you have really done, done
so well to take feedback and ideas and new information in stride.
But now it's my turn and I'm, I'm so scared.
I
Matt: so
AK!: There's
Matt: some good news.
There's some good news.
Uh, I don't know that you need to be scared, scared.
Uh, but, um, you know, this is going to be, this is going to be a, a, an
intervention of sorts, but it's going to be, as always, a safe space as well.
Today, we're going to be talking about something that plagues so many
of us, not just people with ADHD,
uh, but really ever since, I mean, at the very least, 2007
when the iPhone came out, uh,
AK!: I love that you know the year.
Nerd.
Matt: Uh, of course I do.
Uh, You know, when, when cell,
when cell phones became mobile phones became,
you know.
Pocket Oracles, or whatever billions we have for them.
AK!: Pocket Oracles.
Matt: Yes, Pocket oracles.
Ever since 2007, I, um,
there has been an increased,
an increasing, you know,
ability to vanish in plain sight.
AK!: Did you ever have a Blackberry?
Matt: never had a
AK!: Oh Man, that was my like gateway drug.
Matt: Ah,
AK!: man, I got that Blackberry and nobody ever saw the front of my face ever again.
It was just
Matt: Wow,
AK!: top of my head
Matt: This a long time coming.
AK!: is a long time coming.
Matt: Okay.
Look, we've talked about stimming.
We've talked about things that sometimes we do that are surprising to other
people that actually help us focus.
I know that some of it is stimming for you.
I know that.
However, uh, the reason that I felt like I maybe should, it could be a good topic
for many is that you have been caught a few times not knowing what's happening.
And look, the two of us are friends.
And then everybody listening to this with ADHD and other
brains also friends, right?
So We wouldn't have this podcast if Alison wasn't okay with it.
Let's put it that way.
We would not be, we'd not be talking right now if you were not, okay,
in fact, you were the one that suggested I go to your friends
AK!: did do that.
I said, listen, these are the people that have spent time in person with me lately.
Go, go get the dirt from them.
Um, I also, because of how often you have put yourself up for discussion,
uh, that's what we do here at ADHD20 and that's, that's the interesting
part of being an adult, right?
Is that like, there's parts of myself that I just know, fundamentally, I'm
never going to change whether or not I want to, and then there are parts
of myself that I'm like, especially if it is hurting other people,
I want to change, you know, if it's, if I, if my, you know, phone use and,
you know, inability to not scroll social media for 17 hours a day
is making people feel like I don't value their time, that's a problem.
And we need to talk about it.
So,
Matt: Yeah.
So, that is what we're going to be talking about on today's episode.
Uh, Alison's quote unquote addictions.
Addiction to phones.
But before we do
AK!: But before we do that.
Matt: There's something that we always have to start the show with.
I think it's your, it's your turn to roll
AK!: Okay, I'll roll.
I, I never need to be like coaxed into rolling.
How about What
Matt: What is, your ADHD tell?
AK!: My, my, my, my, my inability to stay off my phone.
No I mean, sometimes the comedy just writes itself, but that's my
honest answer is that I am so easily distracted, most often by my phone.
Matt: Yes, yes, and We're gonna get into this,
AK!: get it.
That was the Dice Gods, man.
They were listening for this one.
Whoo.
Uh
Matt: listening, But the fun thing about it is, is that, as we've
mentioned many times, you and I have a very different strain
AK!: Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Matt: Uh and maybe, maybe that's why you allow yourself to be,
um, um, distracted by your
AK!: Mm hmm.
Matt: Because it, it, distraction ness is not as strong within you.
Impulsiveness is not
as strong within me.
So, we'll get into it.
But I, I kind of love this.
That is kind of magic.
AK!: And you?
Matt: Uh, Oh man, I mean,
AK!: Where's your fidget spinner?
Is it there?
Matt: on.
I mean, literally, right, I was using it just, just before I pulled
up this, this chart, but there?
I feel like there's so many ADHD tells for me.
I feel like I wear it far more visual, visibly than you do.
I don't know.
AK!: Really?
Matt: I mean, I, please, please convince me
AK!: I, I, yeah, I don't, I mean, I, I don't think that you don't wear it
visually, but I, like, I feel like, For both of us, like, anybody spends 5
minutes in either of our presence and is armchair diagnosing either of us.
The thing is, they don't have to, because we have both made
ADHD our entire personality.
We're basically vegans like that.
Um, but like, it's there's CrossFit, there's being vegan and there's ADHD
and like, that those are the 3 things that you don't ever have to ask anybody
about, because they will tell you.
It's funny because I'm realizing as you were answering that question, as
I was answering that question, that we made this list up back in Season 1.
Matt: Right.
AK!: It's,
Matt: it is,
AK!: it's probably time to, like, you know, refresh the list, but because
it has, I mean, it really has been a beautiful, wonderful thing, but, like,
it's so, because back when we were first beginning this podcast, Matt,
we, we did, like, maybe not everybody was as familiar with our tells.
Maybe we weren't as familiar with our tells, but, like, three seasons
later, like, I think that's a very laughable question to ask either of us.
My, how we've grown
Matt: exactly, I totally agree.
I feel like I've only learned more tells in last
AK!: Every day.
Every day I'm like, how did we not know?
Matt: How did we not
AK!: Well, we?
did know,
but
Matt: Well,
AK!: we?
knew
Matt: We, yeah, we did Uh, but yes, I mean, specifically, the obvious way
that my brain is ahead of my mouth, and I don't start with a subject of
sentences many, many, many times, and therefore, in my mind, I've already
finished the sentence that I've just said out loud, and then everyone's like,
what are you, what are you fucking saying, Another tell that, that I'm,
I'm actually embarrassed about and I'm trying really hard to work on because,
you know, because I do film myself so much more and I watch my, is the rocking.
That's, You're
AK!: a rocker and I'm a twister.
Matt: Yeah, so many tells.
AK!: what are you, what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
All right.
That's me.
stalling.
Let's
Matt: So, you've been called into the principal's office because
AK!: take some deep breaths together, everybody.
Matt: I'll start off by telling a story.
AK!: Yep.
Matt: Possibly because, number one, I, the distractible,
for those of you that are not watching this, Alison has just got
these plastic baby hands on her face.
Okay, perfect, perfect example.
Uh, because the inattentive type of ADHD is mine it has been a challenge
for me my entire life with and without medicine, definitely with and without
diagnosis, I have developed, ways that I could possibly minimize at least
the appearance of being distracted.
Does that make sense?
So, it takes a lot of energy and time and focus.
But, for an example, when watching a television show or a movie, I am
the guy who has to have it quiet.
And it's not because I'm not interested in what the person next to me is saying.
It's not that at all.
I am interested, and that's the problem.
If there's a commercial, and everybody gets up and goes
to the kitchen to get food,
AK!: mm hmm,
mm
Matt: I could just go.
AK!: mm
hmm,
Matt: somewhere else.
I could just go elsewhere, right?
And so when phones started happening, when phones started to become the
distraction that they are for everybody, when they became the dopamine machines
that ruled the world, Uh, and on top of that, social media, of course.
Right?
Because we're not just talking about we're not just talking about iPhones, right?
We're we're also talking about what in the iPhone is the thing
It's the notifications, right?
It's the bleeping and the, the attention grabbing stuff.
That's what it is.
Uh, and social media is to blame.
I blame social media for a lot of things, but that is definitely
one that you can't deny.
So, those two points together, I have been able to, for the most part, not
be distracted by my phone in the way that I've seen my friends be, right?
I'm not, I'm not saying I'm cool for that.
I'm just saying it also makes me more aware, right?
So I'd like to start this podcast with that.
Like, I am very much aware of people.
You are not the only one.
everybody knows someone, and it's okay.
It is now a part of our culture, it's a part of our society.
My only thing, and your friends, also chime in.
Our only thing is, can there be ways that we help you to be there with us, in
times that you quote unquote should be.
And we're not talking about hanging out in your house,
everybody doing their own thing.
We're not talking about that.
We're not talking about, uh, I mean in certain situations we're not
even talking about dinner, right?
Like how many, how many restaurants do you go to and you walk in and
everybody's just on their phone?
Or certainly like in a subway, right?
You know, it's like, we're We're talking about some very specific situations
that I feel like, in the past, you have, you know, that are not as
precious as they are to others around you.
I don't know what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying.
Okay, so, obviously the biggest example for me is playing role playing games.
And We've talked about it, and I know what it is for you, and at the
same time, I can't distance, I can't stop the visual of it, too, you know?
Wow this is really difficult to say, this is, it's a difficult thing to
say, because it's hard to relay a feeling you With also an incredible
amount of understanding, right?
Of something that bothers you, or something that you could talk to your
friend about and ask them How could we, how could we help you improve this,
but also totally understand, right?
And so, all I can do is talk about the situation where, as a Game Master, if
I am, if I am Game Mastering, it's not that I need everyone to be perfectly
rapt at everything that I'm saying.
It's just that I do know when people are not in the room, right?
and I feel it, and therefore it takes me out of the game, whether or not you're
out of the game, which is so weird, So I was just wondering, like, since we
know, since we know why the phone is a big, uh, focus point, and we know that
it's a comfort thing, and we know that it's a stim device, and let's also add on
top of this, you are a marketing person.
You work in the world of marketing.
there's a lot of, a lot of videos that I did some research on before
this podcast that were like, yeah, just remove social media.
You can't do that, right?
Alison can't do that.
I mean, I'm in the same way.
I don't, I don't use social media very often, but the second that
I try to delete all the apps off
my phone, I need it.
I have to put it.
back on So all we're actually talking about, really, is
how do you feel about certain situations,
I would imagine, like, dinnertime with a uh, certainly gaming,
uh, and what other situation?
Theaters?
I don't know.
Movies?
AK!: Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt: Okay, Even if we could find something that could not make you less
relaxed, but make the people around you at least feel like you're more engaged, too.
There were so many eggshells walking,
AK!: I
don't.
Well, let me, let me say just as you have gone to great lengths
to assure me that I am safe.
I want to extend the same to you.
Anything that you say here I know is coming from a place of love,
coming from, I think the, the, the point of this whole podcast, both
this episode and then like ADHd20 on a whole is about curiosity, right?
It's about curiosity of like, what's good, like, just explain to me, like,
what's going on in there so we can kind of reach this understanding.
And ultimately what you're asking is, is there something because, and that's how
we kind of started the episode, right?
Is that like, if something I am doing is making somebody
else feel some kind of way,
Let's have a conversation about it.
Matt: Right.
AK!: While also being like, because that's that's a relationship.
That's a friendship.
You know, it's like, there's this, there's things that we all do that other
people wish we didn't do, but then they do things that we wish they didn't do.
And so there's just
this kind of, like, give and take here.
So anything that you want to say, Matt, like, carte blanche, like,
please say it, it will, it will make me slash us slash this better.
And there might be an actual answer that I can give you as to why I do that.
I already have some answers based on the things you've already said.
Um, it might be worth a conversation to see if there is a level of
compromise that could make both parties somewhat equally comfortable.
Uh, it might mean aha moments for other people, which has always, you know, long
been that it's not just about me and Matt here, but rather how everybody that we
are lucky enough to be in community with,
Matt: Yes.
AK!: touch and reach and engage with the world around them.
So, um, you can say whatever you want.
Matt: There's a gentleman that I found online, his name is Reagan Rose, and
I feel like he put it very well, and I also feel like it's appropriate for
this podcast as it involves a sword.
And he says that these mobile devices that we now rely on, their
use of them, the power of them, has become a double edged sword.
On the one hand, you have something that could actually
sharpen your life, your productivity.
It allows you to in some ways, be more present.
It allows you to communicate with people who don't have the ability to
communicate, uh, you know, otherwise.
Or, you can do things that we've never been able to do.
But on the, on the other side, the, the, the double edge
is, it dulls our attention.
It dulls everybody's attention.
AK!: Can I give an example of, like, something happening right now,
real time that I've noticed, um, specifically about social media and
the double edged sword of it all.
So we have just, Southeast has just been through two major hurricanes, Helene
and Milton, in the last two weeks.
Devastating.
So, but the way that social media has kind of come to its aid and come to its rescue
and people were organizing ways to airlift supplies and rescue efforts was a really
incredible, amazing use of social media.
On the other hand, there are people who put their lives and the lives of
others in danger because they wanted the satisfaction of becoming an
influencer because they wanted the views.
So they weathered a hurricane and didn't heed, you know, the advice
of the authorities and the experts in the situation so they could watch
their follower count and views go up, which can then hopefully lead to
new and in their, you know, mind's eye, better ways to make money.
If that's not the epitome of a double edged sword of social media,
you know,
Matt: example.
Yeah.
AK!: So I get it.
I get absolutely all of that.
Um, I may have cut you off though, in that excitement to share that.
Matt: No, I think, I think that was a really good point.
towards the argument of even those influencers, like, we are trying
to build a community, right?
We are trying to build a community, we love our community, and we count on you
to be a voice, that is an important thing.
is your job.
It is a part of who you are.
so I think that if we're talking about any kind of quote unquote
fixes, they're, they're so simple.
I think they're just so simple.
Because what we've already agreed upon is that you're using your phone
in the way that it is meant to be right, both personal and professional.
But I think also, like you've been saying, it's, it's, we're getting older, we're
learning, we, we are trying to grow.
I consider us to be, self aware, sometimes too self aware, but we, but sometimes, but
a lot of times that's really, really good.
AK!: If I, if I may defend myself on a couple of counts, not that you're
asking me to, but I do want to just give the full context for the people here
who don't know me as well as you and Sarah, for example, and I've had this
conversation to varying degrees with a lot of different people over the years.
1, um, Social media makes me happy.
It's why I kind of attempted to go into it as a career and then went, well, maybe
not everything we love has to be our career and started to back back out of it.
But to your point, I still do use it as kind of the primary
face on several platforms.
So a lot of times when I'm on my phone, especially when we're talking about like
a conference or something like that, like I'm using it in two different ways and
don't like, so I'm using it twice the amount of other people, but you have to
give me my fun time too since the other time I was using it for the purpose of
posting stories, reaching out to people, leaving comments, because that's the
thing that people a lot of times don't understand about social media management.
It's very little coming up with the perfect reel and very much about,
especially, and I read a really great report that actually who it was Tumblr
of all things put out like just this week about basically the ways that Gen
Z wants to be engaged in community.
And, and how essentially Gen Z needs community for the sake of community, not
community for the sake of being sold.
So they want to be invited to a community by any given brand just to be in the
presence of, of, of talking about that thing that they might all like.
Whereas millennials and Gen Xers, I won't lump the Boomers into this.
It's like, they understood that the communities were more like, let me
ask questions about this platform.
Let me da da da da da da da da
So like.
The more that we use social media, and that's the thing that's, this
is interesting to me, just like you have this hunger, this thirst, this
quest, this drive for your tools and always want to be on the, like,
the best, greatest, next platform.
I have that same hunger for social media.
I, you know, got on Friendster in college.
Basically, the day that Facebook went global and you did because
I just missed by 1 year.
I just missed being able to join Facebook in college.
Um, yeah, because I graduated college in 2004.
Facebook went global in 2006, not needing a, you remember the iPhone dates.
I remember the Facebook dates.
It was in September of 2006, because it was right after I moved to New
York and that's why I remember it.
Because I remember a friend texting me saying, get on Facebook.
You finally don't need a college email address.
Because back when I was in college, your email address was
cut off after you graduated.
Um, and so I remember like lamenting for a few months, like I can't get on Facebook
and I want to be on Facebook and like borrowing my friend's Facebook account
so I could like sneak on and like spy.
I remember spending a lot, you know, way too much time in my, you know,
figuring out my top eight on MySpace.
And then, but like, so all of this pivots into early in my career, I was
managing a team of hotel concierges and realizing that we could use
platforms like Foursquare and Twitter to engage with potential clients
to potential brands we wanted.
And this was way before anybody, I mean, this was Blackberry days.
This is before anybody was talking about like influencers
as a career and things like this.
So this is something that has always interested me.
And then like from a, you know, social person aspect, who's Southern.
So I'm a little bit nosy, you know, like it's fun.
I enjoy social media.
And, and, in the times in my life where I've stopped enjoying social media has
been when I have taken myself off, like, you know, like, shut down my profile
for a minute, taken a step back, you know, and like, I've gone through, like,
detoxes and cleanses and things like that.
I actually purposefully do not have notifications on my phone
for any social media apps.
Matt: Mm
hmm.
AK!: Uh, so I don't get, I do not get a notification if you message
me on Facebook or Instagram or like my post because it was too much.
Matt: And you've
AK!: And I've kept that off.
Yeah, because that was too much.
So, it becomes intentional for me to go to the platform.
Now, do I go to the platform too much because it's a form of stimming?
Yes, but I don't get notifications for that very reason because
the impulse gremlin in me was I gotta go like the comment.
I gotta go interact, you know, for both brands as well as personal stuff.
Matt: Well, and let, let me, let me side note real quick too and say that
I also respect the power, of social media because of, you know, because
of my time on the early internet, even Friendster, where we built our own thing.
And I saw, oh my god, wow.
This
is, This is a real community.
This, this really, these, these are people I care about.
These are, this is real, so I, I don't want to, I don't want to downplay
that either, which I think a lot of people do, and I think they shouldn't,
AK!: Well, it's,
it's,
Matt: I don't, I really don't think they should,
AK!: it's, what you and have always talked about on this podcast where anytime
you feel the need to start a sentence.
Well, why don't you just why don't you just...?
Just stop just stop talking at that point?
Because you're about to belittle someone, even if you mean well.
Matt: point.
AK!: and so when people give me the, why don't you just
take off your notifications?
Well, I've already done that, you know, like, and again, you're taking
away from the fact that I like it.
I enjoy it.
It's a hobby.
Like, I enjoy learning about it.
I enjoy when you guys ask me questions and I can give you answers.
You know, and so we all have our things.
It's just that, like, I feel like sometimes social media has gotten such
a bad rep over the years that people do want to kind of belittle that.
Nobody would ever go to somebody who knows a great deal about coding or a
great deal about, you know, like any of the things that I feel like a lot
of my contemporaries know a lot about.
But there's something about social media that makes people want
to kind of, like, write it off.
That does hurt my feelings.
And then that's when the gremlin really rises and I double down and get
really
Matt: And you double down.
Yeah,
So, yeah, So we've, we've already said, yes, you're, you are not wrong.
You are using it as correctly as possible.
I'm not active on social media, not for the reasons.
I mean, my problem is I just can't control it, right?
Like I can't.
I don't like the chaos, and I can get, I will dive into
rabbit holes that are just apps.
I've got so many things, other things that I want to do, but it doesn't make me
happy, and it does make you happy, right?
Uh, another reason, a quick plug for our incredible Discord that,
uh, I do love that, and it is, it is so similar to my first days on the
AK!: yeah,
Matt: Where we built our own.
And it is so much like that and it's just, yeah,
I love it.
I, I may not be on it every single day, most days, but I do love it.
then I'll just pose this as a question.
Would you be willing to find ways to simply manage the timing?
I mean, I think you started with the notification thing, probably, but I wonder
if there are ways, ways that I use too, that might be for the next three hours
I'm gonna press a button and it is going to hide everything and it is gonna dim
everything and it is going to make it so much harder for me to check phones.
I mean does that even sound, I mean I know, I know it's difficult, but
is that, does that even sound like something that you would be willing to
AK!: So here, here's, here's the thing.
Matt: hmm.
AK!: I sound like I'm about to be defensive and I'm not.
I'm, I'm like, posing because I hear you and I want to, like, get
to a place that we both feel good.
The thing that distracts me.
And when I pick up my phone and start, like, whatever, and honestly, a lot
of the time I'm playing Home Escapes.
If you look at me and I'm on my phone, and especially if it's
sideways, I'm playing Home Escapes.
I'm not on Facebook.
I'm not actively talking to anybody.
I'm moving colored blocks around a screen because I'm stimming.
Like, when, when I watch TV, I realized this a couple of weeks ago,
like, when I was growing up, my mom was always like, cross stitching or
knitting or like, doing something with her hands while she watched TV.
That's what I'm like, so I'm not like, actively doing
anything is this very passive.
I don't enjoy just sitting and watching TV.
And so when people that's a time when people say, why don't you just like,
why don't you put your phone down?
Relax.
Matt: Yeah,
AK!: This isn't relaxing to
me.
Like, now I feel like I'm being forced into doing something.
So that's understanding what I'm doing.
8 times out of 10, when I pick up my phone, it's not me reacting to
a notification or a text or a call.
It's me saying, I have some extra energy in my body right now,
and it needs to go somewhere.
Otherwise, it's going to become disruptive in game.
That's what I'm doing.
Matt: Yeah.
So,
yeah.
let's put that on the table to all of your friends and anybody
who is in a similar boat, right?
And let's be sure that we, we are making the message clear that Alison
is not trying to insult anyone.
You know, she is not bored.
She does not wish that she should be doing something else.
She does want to be here.
And she, she simply this is a way that helps her focus.
Okay, so we've got that.
And we're good with that.
But what can we do to
Meet in the
AK!: Yeah.
Matt: So if my way is to be super stoic and say you can't speak
during the, you know, like, again,
AK!: That's your way.
Okay.
Matt: That's my way.
Yeah, that's mine.
I mean, I'm very, it's intense because I, I, I get annoyed because
I'm trying so hard, you know, like, that's not the way to be.
How can we find those middle grounds?
You know, as we've said a billion times, it all starts with communication.
It all starts with playing people this podcast so they understand.
Because it's hard.
And then Yeah.
so what do we
AK!: Well, that's what I'm wondering, like, what's, you know, because I
hear you and I absolutely want to give you the space to, to like...
I am always having fun when I'm playing D&D.
It's just the fact that, like, you know, it's like the difference of this podcast.
You and I are the only two on it.
So it's a direct conversation back and forth.
My, my camera is my phone.
So I actually can't play on my phone during this.
But also, but like, I don't expect or need to be constantly engaged.
I understand that D&D is a collaborative thing, and everybody deserves their
time in the sun, you know, their time in the spotlight, so I would never
want to rob anybody of that, nor would I want anybody to think that
I'm uninterested because I'm listening intently, but I happen to be looking down.
So I don't know, like, because I want to solve it, right?
Like, do I, I mean, do I need to try knitting?
Just so you guys can see me, like, leaning back here with my,
I don't know, you know, like, I'm, I'm, I'm in this with you, Matt.
I want, I want to solve for this, but, like, I also want to recognize,
you know, like, my needs too, and that's, that's the hard part is that,
like, your needs in this are very, very valid, especially to your point,
like, your type is inattentiveness.
So there's things that I'm doing that are taking you out of the moment.
My type is impulsivity.
So I need to be stimulated at all given times.
I need the energy to go somewhere.
So, how do we find a place that my energy can go that then doesn't
detract your inattentiveness?
Like, that's not fair.
Is it me saying like, hey, everybody, I am picking up my iPad so I can open my
coloring app because I want to because that's the thing is sometimes that repeat
activity does help me listen better.
Matt: yeah.
AK!: be less of a chaos gremlin,
Matt: Yes.
Yes.
AK!: you know?
Matt: I absolutely get it.
And, and I, and there are situations where I do it too.
And so, uh, this, you know, this podcast may be one of
those situations where we don't
AK!: Yeah.
Matt: but here's one question that I have.
So you have no notifications.
But I wonder if, if I knew that you definitely weren't
engaged in something else.
Like, sometimes sometimes you will laugh, and I know that you're
laughing at social media, even, even if you have been playing the
AK!: Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt: So, I wonder how much of a, is a, pull If, If we agree that
playing the game is, is is normal.
It's stimming.
Social media can't possibly belong to that same
AK!: No, that's yeah, that's something I need to, yeah, that's
something I'm willing to give up
for
sure.
Yeah.
Matt: And I think that is like a freaky easy fix.
We create a focus mode for you.
And all it does is,
AK!: all my apps that are not Home Escapes.
Matt: Just, and you can set it for one hour, you can set it
for you could it D&D.
And it's just It'll give you the game, but it'll make it really hard
to access any of the social media
AK!: Yeah, I also wonder too, like, again, like, is there a way to give
a cue without taking you or anybody else out of game of like, uh, I'm here
and I'm having fun, but my eyes are going to wander for a minute or like,
because that thing is like, is it, is it better for me to go off camera?
And those like, sometimes I get the wiggles and that's when I go off camera.
And like, and like in the room, but I'm just like marching in place or like
having a little dance party because like, I am, I mean, like, we talked at
the top of the episode about, like, my ADHD tells I am a 7 year old boy with
attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Okay.
Like, I literally have to move energy out of my body in a very physical way.
A lot of the times.
Um, but I wonder, you know, there's like reactions on Zoom and things like that.
If I put, like, if we assign certain reactions, you know, where it's like
the heart eyes react, if I, and you can see it at the top of my screen
that says, I'm here, I'm paying attention, but I'm looking down
because I need a stim, you know, like, could we try something like that?
Matt: Absolutely.
I think that's a great idea.
And, and the, and the mindfulness of it could be really
AK!: Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.
Matt: We all could be
AK!: Because that sets the upfront contract of like, I'm going to look
at my phone now, but I'm not going to look at social media, because I
respect you, my Dungeon Master, I respect my fellow players, now is not
the time to be scrolling Facebook.
Matt: Uh huh.
I gotta stim, I gotta stim, you guys, I gotta stim!
I mean, when we're playing in person, those beautiful times, very few of them,
but when we get to, and you stand up and start dancing around, never bothers me.
Never takes me out.
Never distracts me.
Because you are dancing, but you're still looking at us.
You're there.
I can tell.
You know, it's
AK!: yeah,
Matt: uh, Another thing that I will say, this is, this is a more costly situation,
but one thing that I think helped me enormously, and especially virtual
experiences, is getting a teleprompter.
Because I'm looking at you.
I am looking at you right now.
I'm
AK!: Yeah, see, I'm having to look down and then up to my camera,
okay.
Matt: You're looking down and you could look at any
AK!: my dice are all down here and they are so damn pretty.
And every second I look down is an exercise and not picking
up my dice and rolling them.
It's so hard.
Matt: But, under the table, this thing has been spinning for, how long have
we been, for 56 minutes and 48 seconds.
This has just been spinning.
Right?
That, that's fine.
But I know, I know that I'm respecting you by looking into my camera
because of this, this teleprompter.
And I'm just like, and it really helps me.
AK!: Yeah.
Because I'll say this too,
like, I know for a fact that, like, For me, a lot of it, especially
the social media aspect of it has to be kind of cold turkey.
This is why when I go for walks, I don't take my phone at all.
It's why I stopped wearing an Apple watch because like, that was in my brain, like,
the 1 time of day that, like, I can't, but I can't be trusted when I'm on a walk
to not pull my phone out of my pocket.
I can't be trusted to not see if I have any notifications.
So the only way, that's why when I've needed breaks from social media, I've
had to just remove myself from the platforms temporarily because I can't
be trusted to only use it for, you know, and so it was like, use the timer.
I'm like, no, because I'm an adult, so I'll go around the timer.
So like, so I would say this, there's, there's, I think
we've come up with some ways.
I like the teleprompter idea, manifest some money for that
to come sit on top of my,
um, yeah, please join our Patreon so Alison can afford
a ding ding teleprompter.
Yes.
Um, I, let's, let's practice hopefully as soon as a Sunday with like, using
reactions as statuses, almost just to kind of give you a, you know, I'm
getting fidgety versus like, I'm paying attention, but just need to look down.
And then, um, you know, the other, I would say this just to you, Matt,
as my friend, and any of my friends who may be listening, or anybody
who this episode has resonated with and wants to know how to approach
the subject with someone they love
If we need to have a no phone dinner.
Like, you just have to tell me that.
Because a lot of, like, and that's the thing, I know I am not the only one who
just, like, without even realizing it, pulls up their phone and starts scrolling.
A lot of times I will purposefully have my phone in my pocket at dinner or on
the table, but like you, the second I see somebody else pull out their phone, that
is an invitation for me to do the same.
And then it's hard to to peel it away.
And I know, like, none of us ever want to, like, come down on each other and be
like, Alison, you can't be on your phone.
But, If it's important to you that you have my rapt attention.
I'll do it.
I just need to know about it.
And I need you to be willing to go there with me.
I'm not saying that to you, Matt.
I know you will always have a no phone dinner with me, but
but my
Matt: I mean, look, if you're in a marriage, or if you're in a relationship
of any kind, and it does not in any way distract or bother each other that
you're on your phones, I have no problem.
I've just, yeah,
AK!: have a friend and I won't name names, but I remember at
one point we were hanging out.
I realized we were just like, sitting, I think we were like, traveling somewhere,
but we were like, we'd had like a day of doing and seeing and eating and exploring.
And we were like, in our room before dinner, just playing
on like, both on our beds.
Just
Matt: mhm.
AK!: and at one point, like, I felt the need to apologize.
I was like, and she was like, girl, my favorite friends are the ones I can
sit around and scroll my phone with.
There is some level of comfort of being with the people that you can't, you
don't need to, it's, it's, it's the new, you know, kind of soft silence
where we don't need to be entertained.
All that's like, you scroll your phone, I scroll my phone.
So, I know you're not saying any of that, but I think you've raised some excellent
points in, like, the ways that it can be harmful and the ways that we can't
help each other, um, in the moment.
Um,
Matt: think, Okay, so I'll tie this back to D&D and I'll tie this back,
you know, just really the one situation where I have ever felt as a friend
to say something to you, right?
That, playing a game the way that I like to play the games, because
Lord knows there's a billion ways to play Dungeons & Dragons, okay?
But the way that I know we all love to play is is kind of a performance, and
I think that's a part of it for me.
It's like a beautiful combination of a performance, like an improv show
without any of the stress and strain caring about an audience But it is
a for me, and I'm like trying to do all these things, and it applies to
you too, because you do the same work.
Like, to me, it just feels like I need to, I need to live in this
world for the next three hours, hours
AK!: You're method, baby.
Matt: Yeah.
I'm method, baby.
So that's the only time that I would want to see if, if it's
possible to make some changes.
To even be able to say that to your friends.
And I'm saying now to people listening, like, if, if you're in a situation
and there's things that just really,
AK!: Mm hmm.
Matter.
Matt: feel strongly about.
Just talk to them and allow them to be as cool as AK is, right?
And, and to say, Yeah.
Yeah.
I know it's a thing.
I also love it.
but I respect you and also I love you.
So, like, whatever.
Let's, let's work it out.
AK!: Hey, Matt, guess what?
Matt: What?
AK!: Even with you calling me into the principal's office today to have
a very serious conversation with me,
Matt: Mm
AK!: going behind my back to my friends with my express idea and permission,
Matt: With your
AK!: to be clear, Everybody that Matt went to, he was given permission and it
was my idea for him to poll my friends.
But anyways, I
Matt: I, I mean, here's the best news, your friends do love you.
AK!: They do and I love my friends.
I hit the jackpot.
Matt: You, have a loyal
AK!: I'll take them all day every day.
I am so thankful and grateful for them and you are in that number.
did good.
Another intervention
Matt: We're putting ourselves into the hot seat
AK!: for you.
Um, well, thank you for doing the work, doing the research, coming
here, ready to be part of the active solution to our problems,
Matt: Yeah.
AK!: um, and for greeting me in the spirit that I know you meant it of,
like, collaboration and harmony.
Time
Matt: it really is.
It really is.
It is a journey, everybody, and I am happy to be on that journey with everybody.
Yesterday was World Mental Health Day, and I really truly was grateful
to so many people in my life.
Uh, yes, I've made ADHD my personality and TTRPGs, but,
uh, I am so happy that I have.
And it is a journey.
I mean, I don't know how I lasted this long without doing
so, because it's, it's so great.
AK!: is a weird soup though, man,
Matt: It sure is.
Time, time, only, one
AK!: you know, time, wibbly wobbly, timely wimely, um, but we got here and
now it seems like we never weren't.
Matt: It's true.
So, until next episode.
AK!: Da da da
da
daaa, and now we make some
weird mouth noises, and we dance
with our tiny hands, la la la la.
Matt: ADHD20 is a creation from the Pocket Dimension, a multiverse
where we explore neurospice,
Alison: rolling dice,
Matt: and so much more.
Come chat with us in our Discord server, open to all.
The join link is in our show notes.
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Check out
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Matt: The best way you can help us, though, is just to share the
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Alison: We love that you're here.
Thank you for entering The Pocket Dimension.