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Good morning Grid connections listeners today.

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We're diving into the realities of urban EV ownership with Robert Hoffman, host of the
urban EV podcast.

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If you've ever wondered what it takes to own an electric vehicle in a city like New York
from charging challenges to infrastructure innovations, this episode is packed with

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firsthand insights.

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You won't want to miss Robert shares his journey from investing in Tesla stock in 2016 to
finally making the leap to an electric vehicle while living in Brooklyn.

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He opens up about the real world experiences of public charging, the ongoing struggles
with range anxiety and why misinformation is still holding many drivers back from making

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the switch.

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We also get into the role of plug-in hybrids, how rideshare drivers are shaping urban
charging demand and the promising future of curbside charging solutions like it's

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electric.

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Beyond the daily challenges, we discuss how emerging networks like Iona are working to
improve

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non-Tesla fast charging reliability and why level 2 charging could be the key to
widespread adoption in major cities.

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If you're curious about the future of electric vehicle infrastructure, or just looking for
an honest take on what it's really like to go electric in an urban environment, this

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episode is for you.

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If you enjoy the episode, we'd love for you to share with at least one other person who
might find it valuable.

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And don't forget to leave us a review.

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Your feedback helps us reach more listeners who are passionate about the future of
transportation.

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Plus, we're launching a brand new grid connections and newsletter.

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Stay ahead of the curve with expert insights, industry updates, and exclusive content from
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Sign up now using the link in the show notes.

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With that, enjoy.

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Hey, I'm excited to be here, Chase.

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Thanks for having me.

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You know, I would say, you know, obviously we're going to file this under great minds
think alike.

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We have similar podcasts here in similar interests.

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Do you want me to dig down deep into how I got to where I am today?

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Well, we got hours, so let's let's let's use it.

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Well, you know, I think there's an overriding theme of a lot of people that are attracted
to EVs.

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There is sustainable green energy and there's a bigger sort of holistic picture of what
kind of drew us here.

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Now, sometimes it could just be, could be techie geek and it's just fun, exciting stuff
playing with electrons.

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And that's certainly an element of it as well.

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But, you know, I think this is one of those things that way back when I saw

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you living here in the northeast of the United States, you really, think this is the front
row seat to climate change here.

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I think it's been a lot worse than lot of other parts of the planet.

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But, when I grew up, know, winters were winter, you know, it iced over, it was cold over
here.

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And, you know, I remember the first time, you know, it was, you know, 60, 70 degrees in
February.

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like, what's going on?

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Like, this is, this never, ever, ever happened.

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And when you kind of...

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lift the veil if you feel like it and really dig deep into what's going on and human's
contribution to carbon and how things are our fault and this is specifically human manmade

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climate change.

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You can't unsee that.

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looking ahead towards people who are potentially going to embrace EVs, that's not a good
marketing tool.

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Scare tactics don't work and a lot of people have their heads in the sand.

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And that was part of my motivation here is actually starting the podcast was how can I
deliver this message to people who just aren't interested or just don't want to know that

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EVs are going to save the planet and they're not going to save the planet by driving EV.

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You're not going to per se save the planet, but this is sort of a step, brick in the wall
of the whole sustainable energy process.

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And with scale and the embracing of green energy networks,

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and infrastructure also by driving EVs, it's going to help mankind get to a better place.

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So that was part of my motivation.

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And I just think EVs are cool.

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I think they're fast and they're awesome.

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And I do love tech.

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It's a hot button topic right now, but I invested in Tesla in 2016 before Musk completely
lost his mind.

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You know, I saw I'm like I think this company's is on to something and I really want to
get behind them But it's also taken me years to actually get behind the wheel of an EV

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because I do live in New York City I live in Brooklyn, New York and There are a lot of
challenges and hence the urban EV podcast that we have here in cities as opposed to where

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most of America living a home with the driveway in the garage have with charging and
there's a lot of realities that that sort of

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come into play here when you say, I'd really love to get an EV, but how am going to do
this?

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And it finally took for me anyway.

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I had a nice powered vehicle before, and that served me well.

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And I was just like, all right, well, I bought it.

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paid for.

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And I'll keep driving until the wheels fall off.

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And that's exactly what happened.

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And here we were last year in 2024.

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It's time for a new car.

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And I'm like, you

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I don't know, do I dare the dream?

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Can I get an EV?

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I mean, I still live in the city here.

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It's like, I can't get this done.

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So I started having conversations with my wife about this and she's like, no way, uh-uh,
this is your deal.

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You're going to have to charge it.

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Good luck.

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Figure it out.

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I'm like, all right, you know, she's probably right.

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This is pie in the sky for me.

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It's not realistic.

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So I started looking into plugin hybrids and...

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Really, you know, I do believe there's a place for plug-in hybrids.

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think right now, in my opinion, it's an EV with a range extender.

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I think it's the way they really need to be marketed.

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And they're kind of evolving in that direction.

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You when you look at the Scout, the new Scout that's coming out, it's much more, you know,
it's got a, you know, I'm not quite sure of how many kilowatts those batteries are, but

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they're pretty big.

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I think you're going to get like up to 150 miles of range with them.

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And then you've got a very small motor that's capable of powering that battery.

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So, you know, for people who are just completely freaked out by range anxiety, we can get
into all of that as well.

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You've got that.

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think that's a great marketing tool.

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The plugin hybrids that exist today, though, when I kind of started really looking into
them, there is a sort of still a big compromise with the amount of space they take up in

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the boot of the of the car with the amount of range you actually get.

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The fact that you can't fast charge a plugin

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you know, a plug-in hybrid.

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I was not aware of that at first.

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I'm like, oh, you can only level two charge these things.

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So on top of all that, I actually still was like, you know, I still think I want to do it.

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And then I went and I test drove a Sorento, Kia Sorento.

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And unfortunately, why also it's got like a 1.6 liter engine with a turbo and it's the
performance was weird.

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It was kind of like sluggish and fast.

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It wasn't consistent.

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I just didn't like the way it drove.

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It didn't speak to me.

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It was the right size for me.

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We needed a third row.

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That was the directive my wife gave me.

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goes, all right, fine.

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You do your thing here.

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You give me a third row because we got kids to play soccer and we need that.

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She's like, I'll begrudgingly agree to this folly that you're following right now.

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I'm like, OK, so we did the Sorento thing, did the test drive.

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I'm like, this is not working.

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But then.

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Once I had my eyes on Kia, I saw the EV9, which was just released last year.

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And it checked a lot of boxes.

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And then when I started doing further research in my area, I did realize there is a public
charger about four or five blocks away.

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How does that work?

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Is that something I can actually get in on and use?

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I wasn't quite sure.

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And how busy is it?

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And these are flow chargers in New York City.

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There's a pilot program.

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I think it was 2021 or something like that, that these things were launched.

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They're not in every neighborhood, but there is one in my neighborhood.

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And I was like, I don't know, can I do this?

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Can I, you know, I actually even, you know, I was on some forums.

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I was like, yeah, I'm thinking of getting a, uh, an EV, but I don't have any at home
charging.

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And everyone's like, good luck.

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Don't do it.

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You're crazy.

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You know, better you than me.

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I got a lot of that.

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You know, this is insane.

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There's no way this, no way this is going to work out.

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And lo and behold, I'm

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here to share with you, Chase.

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It worked out pretty well, actually.

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It was not that big of a deal.

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I would say on average, the way I drive, I need to charge up once every two weeks or so.

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And these Flow chargers are really reasonably priced.

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It's super cheap when you charge overnight, and that's exactly what I do.

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So when I'm running low, for the most part, when I'm using the car regularly around town,
I'll drive over to those chargers.

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You can see when they're available online.

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even here in this congested city, they're open often enough that maybe not always the
first time I want to go that it's going to be available.

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But typically on the second time I take a peek at the app, it's available.

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So I've been charging on those.

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You charge up to 100%.

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It's reasonable.

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It's still cheaper than gas.

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And so far, so good.

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So the experience was actually really positive.

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It's the road tripping where things started getting a little challenging.

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Chase, what EV are you driving right now?

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We have two, so we have a Tesla Model Y and a Tesla Model 3.

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Nice.

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And originally, I was like, I'm only going to get Tesla.

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only going to a Tesla.

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And then the X was out of our budget.

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And the Y, they offer that third row, but it's kind of like baby seats back there.

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It's not a real third row.

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So we kind of checked off, crossed off Tesla from our list.

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And in retrospect now,

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I'm not quite sure if that was the right move.

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And I'll tell you why.

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So this is one of those realities, I think, and this is stuff I talk about on my podcast.

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I'm certainly gonna talk about it on yours as well.

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And I love EVs.

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I wanna set the table here.

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I am a supporter of EVs, but there are growing pains and there are some realities that not
everyone is aware of when they get an EV.

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And while I was aware of a lot of these things in IRL,

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There's certain other things you sort of discover.

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Now I always knew the power of Tesla, forget the AI and the self-driving is really the
supercharger network.

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And I knew that by getting a Kia, I was going to be reliant on the others out there.

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Even though technically speaking, is opening up its, Tesla and Kia have opened up the
doors.

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We were supposed to be on the supercharger network already.

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It still hasn't happened.

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So I guess it's any day now, but.

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I purchased the vehicle last year, so they give you 500 hours of Electrify America.

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I'm like, I've heard some iffy things about Electrify America, and it's a reputation
that's well deserved.

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I had a lot of challenges.

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Now, sometimes it's operator error.

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The first time you go up to a charger, you're still not quite sure how to this thing.

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I press this button, do I plug it in first?

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These are all simple things.

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part of a learning curve.

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For sure, but this is actually part of reason I'm really glad to have you on because I
think a lot of people, especially if they've been driving EVs for a while and if they're

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non-Tesla, they kind of played out, the electrify America's got a lot better.

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Oh, the public charges are better.

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This isn't an issue.

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And my whole kind of mental philosophy has always been with electrification, even before
supercharging was a thing, was just that if, and this is true with like really any

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technology space, but if a technology is gonna replace what it is,

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What is already there?

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It has to be not just as good.

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It has to be better.

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And that I think it was really the supercharger that at least got that you plug it and
walk away.

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You don't have to swipe a card.

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And obviously now we got plug-in plug-in charge and some of these other technologies taken
off, but it's really fascinating to hear someone.

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And I think this is something that more people need to hear about like, no, it's not
completely solved yet.

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And even as someone such as yourself, that's like gung ho to try and do it for people who
just

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want the positives, but don't want to don't have the ability sometimes to invest the time
and figure out all this stuff.

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It really does need to be figured out.

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It does.

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And we're all early adopters here.

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that's, once again, it's attracting the gung-ho types.

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Plug and charge, I know the technology is out there, but I don't believe there's a
standard, I believe, that's been agreed to from the manufacturers, the CPOs, the

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ChargePoint operators.

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By the way, I was corrected by a friend of mine goes, use a lot of acronyms on your show.

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It's like, we don't get them all.

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Make sure you explain what they are every time you use them for the first time.

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So I know there's a standard.

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that's out there, but not everyone has basically implemented.

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I don't know if anyone has out, maybe not my area anyway.

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the plug and charge concept really needs to take off.

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It's really important because it's another, the credit card reader is another point of
failure.

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There's the initialization and there's the credit card reader where I feel like often
there's something along the ways there where something goes wrong.

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the biggest...

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challenge which I've had now for you know this range anxiety concept.

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I understand why now this is a thing.

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It's like you've got all the route planning software that's out there.

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There's Chargeway.

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00:13:43,918 --> 00:13:47,278
I've had Matt Teske on the...

221
00:13:47,278 --> 00:13:49,238
Was it Matt Teske or Matt Teske?

222
00:13:49,758 --> 00:13:50,718
Matt Teske.

223
00:13:50,718 --> 00:13:53,058
Sorry about that Matt if you're listening.

224
00:13:53,058 --> 00:13:58,552
So we've had Matt Teske on the show there and you know it's just terrific sort of deep
dive into

225
00:13:58,552 --> 00:14:01,583
how this all works and how it can be so simplified.

226
00:14:01,824 --> 00:14:03,285
And that part's great.

227
00:14:03,285 --> 00:14:10,149
So you know where I'm going to go from point A to point B and blah, blah, blah, blah.

228
00:14:10,169 --> 00:14:13,621
And the route planning app is connected to my car and it knows what my state of charge is.

229
00:14:13,621 --> 00:14:16,613
you have to stop here and here to get to where you're going.

230
00:14:16,613 --> 00:14:17,633
That's great.

231
00:14:17,633 --> 00:14:23,277
But the problem is, I know you live out in Oregon, in the high desert over there.

232
00:14:23,277 --> 00:14:25,678
And here in New York, obviously, it's a very urban area.

233
00:14:25,678 --> 00:14:30,438
But you get up, you go up a little north and you're in the aileron axis can be pretty
desolate out there as well.

234
00:14:30,438 --> 00:14:30,738
All right.

235
00:14:30,738 --> 00:14:34,298
So the route planning software is telling me stop at this charger.

236
00:14:34,298 --> 00:14:37,738
It's like that last last chance gas station kind of thing.

237
00:14:37,738 --> 00:14:38,998
So it's like, this is it.

238
00:14:38,998 --> 00:14:43,798
And then you're go another hundred miles until there's another one, maybe even not 100,
but possibly.

239
00:14:44,298 --> 00:14:46,638
Yeah, you're gonna go decent distance.

240
00:14:47,278 --> 00:14:48,642
What if that's not working?

241
00:14:48,642 --> 00:14:50,372
What if that charger is not working?

242
00:14:50,372 --> 00:14:50,683
All right.

243
00:14:50,683 --> 00:14:54,243
So I'm arriving there with a 12 % state of charge, ready to go.

244
00:14:54,243 --> 00:14:54,704
Perfect.

245
00:14:54,704 --> 00:14:55,773
Let's bring it to 80.

246
00:14:55,773 --> 00:14:56,383
Easy peasy.

247
00:14:56,383 --> 00:14:57,646
I'm going get to where I'm going to go.

248
00:14:57,646 --> 00:14:59,426
What if there's a problem there?

249
00:14:59,667 --> 00:15:00,927
And that happens.

250
00:15:00,927 --> 00:15:03,508
And that's where things get very, very stressful.

251
00:15:03,508 --> 00:15:04,105
Like, you know what?

252
00:15:04,105 --> 00:15:07,540
I don't trust that that last charger is going to work.

253
00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:09,611
It probably will, but it may not.

254
00:15:09,611 --> 00:15:12,552
So now I'm going to charge, stop at the charger before.

255
00:15:12,552 --> 00:15:16,153
And now that's going to kind of break up my trip in the wrong manner.

256
00:15:16,153 --> 00:15:18,382
And now I'm going have to charge one extra time.

257
00:15:18,382 --> 00:15:20,262
by the time I get home.

258
00:15:20,322 --> 00:15:22,082
And that still kind of sucks.

259
00:15:22,082 --> 00:15:31,682
That's still not that, like you said there, when the technology, when the ease of use is
as good, if not better than what people are used to, that's when you're going to get full

260
00:15:31,682 --> 00:15:35,022
embracing from the general public of EVs.

261
00:15:35,022 --> 00:15:41,542
It's got to be, it doesn't matter how many extras, how many things you gain from driving
an EV.

262
00:15:41,542 --> 00:15:47,374
You know, the silence, the acceleration, you know, there's the

263
00:15:47,374 --> 00:15:52,814
passing power of my car, know, this, my car is a family hauler.

264
00:15:52,814 --> 00:15:54,974
It's a third row family hauler.

265
00:15:54,974 --> 00:15:58,514
It does zero to 60 in 4.7 seconds.

266
00:15:58,514 --> 00:16:06,534
Now I'm old enough to remember when the Buick Grand National came out and it could do zero
to 60, I believe in 4.7 seconds.

267
00:16:06,534 --> 00:16:08,414
And that was mind blowing.

268
00:16:08,414 --> 00:16:11,934
A sports car, well, it was kind of like this cool sedan.

269
00:16:12,134 --> 00:16:15,630
It was like a wolf in sheep's clothing that was this fat.

270
00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:17,770
as fast, not faster than a Corvette.

271
00:16:17,770 --> 00:16:20,410
That was a bad ass number to be able to accelerate like that.

272
00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:21,610
And here I am, my family hauler.

273
00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:23,030
can do that in my EV as well.

274
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:23,830
And it's cool.

275
00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:24,450
It's awesome.

276
00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:27,970
It's a really neat thing to have that kind of passing power.

277
00:16:27,970 --> 00:16:28,810
And it's usable.

278
00:16:28,810 --> 00:16:33,490
Listen, even when I'm driving with my family, some people will think, well, you're not
going to use it.

279
00:16:33,490 --> 00:16:34,450
You you don't need it.

280
00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:36,390
You you're going to freak your family out.

281
00:16:36,390 --> 00:16:41,650
But if nothing else, when you're merging onto a highway and you see there's an open spot
there, it's mine.

282
00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:42,952
I'm just going to take it.

283
00:16:42,952 --> 00:16:45,194
first first week or two of like EV ownership.

284
00:16:45,194 --> 00:16:48,647
Yeah, you may be driving a little bit more carelessly.

285
00:16:48,647 --> 00:16:50,359
Yeah, you're you're having fun.

286
00:16:50,599 --> 00:16:53,792
But yeah, usually by month in you don't you kind of forget about it.

287
00:16:53,792 --> 00:16:54,453
It doesn't really matter.

288
00:16:54,453 --> 00:16:58,306
But yeah, there's those moments where it's like, I need to get past this vehicle.

289
00:16:58,306 --> 00:17:00,829
I need to get into that spot when I'm on the highway.

290
00:17:00,829 --> 00:17:03,381
And it's, it's a look it is kind of luxury.

291
00:17:03,381 --> 00:17:04,702
It is really nice.

292
00:17:04,702 --> 00:17:05,322
neat.

293
00:17:05,322 --> 00:17:09,222
Like I said, there's just so many positives that come with the car.

294
00:17:09,502 --> 00:17:12,182
And obviously, me and you were willing to deal with some of these negatives.

295
00:17:12,182 --> 00:17:15,882
Now, with the learning curve, you get better at it.

296
00:17:15,882 --> 00:17:18,462
I know that it's funny.

297
00:17:18,462 --> 00:17:22,942
I just spoke to my wife just earlier this morning.

298
00:17:22,942 --> 00:17:25,806
I'm going to bring her on to the show with me.

299
00:17:25,806 --> 00:17:27,846
because it's gonna be the point counterpoint, right?

300
00:17:27,846 --> 00:17:30,146
At least right now, Chase, you and I are like-minded, right?

301
00:17:30,146 --> 00:17:34,386
So in a certain way, we're agreeing, we're finishing each other's sentences.

302
00:17:34,906 --> 00:17:39,646
But I think she's a great example of, I think, a lot of people out there.

303
00:17:39,646 --> 00:17:49,206
And she's the first person to tell me, and will tell you as well, like, it was up to me,
no way, no how, I'd never even consider it an EV.

304
00:17:49,686 --> 00:17:53,146
Because it doesn't matter all this cool stuff that you're telling me.

305
00:17:53,198 --> 00:17:57,081
is you're going to add to my life, you're subtracting something from my life.

306
00:17:57,081 --> 00:18:00,724
And she's also dealt with the issues we've had with the chargers.

307
00:18:00,784 --> 00:18:10,031
And in one infamous case, we were coming back from a ski trip.

308
00:18:10,492 --> 00:18:14,315
once again, this is kind of not even a fully remote area.

309
00:18:14,656 --> 00:18:16,647
But it was a shopping center.

310
00:18:16,647 --> 00:18:17,748
like, all right, you know what?

311
00:18:17,748 --> 00:18:18,269
We can stop here.

312
00:18:18,269 --> 00:18:19,580
We do some shopping.

313
00:18:19,580 --> 00:18:20,991
I knew I'd charged there before.

314
00:18:20,991 --> 00:18:22,882
It was Electrify America.

315
00:18:23,052 --> 00:18:29,266
The last time I went there, it was not communicating with the route planning app, but it
was there and it worked.

316
00:18:29,266 --> 00:18:30,634
And the same thing happened again.

317
00:18:30,634 --> 00:18:32,037
So I'm like, all right, I'm sure it'll be fine.

318
00:18:32,037 --> 00:18:33,588
No, of course it was not fine.

319
00:18:33,588 --> 00:18:40,352
was the whole, I think they were actually installing new stalls, which was so, that's a
positive, but they were down.

320
00:18:40,652 --> 00:18:44,995
And then I was like, now this is a problem because we're really low on charge.

321
00:18:44,995 --> 00:18:49,057
And the route planning software was suggesting it'll backwards half an hour.

322
00:18:49,797 --> 00:18:51,022
this is after, you know.

323
00:18:51,022 --> 00:18:55,041
four hour trip, I'm like, oh my God, I want to do that.

324
00:18:55,041 --> 00:19:03,022
And then there was another charger, you know, the 45 minutes away in the direction we were
going, but it was at a car dealership.

325
00:19:03,022 --> 00:19:06,502
And another thing here, here's a little Intel for everyone else.

326
00:19:06,502 --> 00:19:13,442
When you see a charger at a car dealership, sometimes they just park the dealership will
just park their own cars in there.

327
00:19:13,442 --> 00:19:15,590
You it loves just using as a parking spot.

328
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:19,043
and sometimes you can't access it unless the dealership's open too.

329
00:19:19,322 --> 00:19:21,063
Sometimes it's in the garage.

330
00:19:21,063 --> 00:19:21,563
Yeah.

331
00:19:21,563 --> 00:19:22,104
Yeah.

332
00:19:22,104 --> 00:19:22,684
Yeah.

333
00:19:22,684 --> 00:19:26,896
And sometimes it's out and it's public and like, I don't know, do I believe what this
says?

334
00:19:26,896 --> 00:19:30,364
It says that, that, you know, it says there's two stalls and one's available.

335
00:19:30,364 --> 00:19:31,498
So I'm like, all right, that's a good sign.

336
00:19:31,498 --> 00:19:37,410
That means there's some dynamic going on there and there, there it's, it's, it's, it's,
guess it's being used.

337
00:19:38,231 --> 00:19:45,654
and it worked, you know, but I literally had to go there at, you know, was traveling at 45
miles an hour on the highway with the heat off.

338
00:19:46,158 --> 00:19:47,858
My wife was not happy about that.

339
00:19:47,858 --> 00:19:50,038
My kids were not happy about that.

340
00:19:50,598 --> 00:19:55,718
My daughter started getting, my 10 year old daughter was like kind of getting stressed
out.

341
00:19:55,718 --> 00:19:56,898
like, it's fine, it's no big deal.

342
00:19:56,898 --> 00:19:58,958
We're gonna make it, it's gonna be okay.

343
00:19:59,298 --> 00:20:09,058
And I also knew that once you hit zero, there's still, you see a lot of YouTubers out
there that run EVs to the ground, right?

344
00:20:09,058 --> 00:20:12,778
They go into turtle mode eventually until like the thing just dies, which is neat.

345
00:20:12,778 --> 00:20:14,646
They do it so you don't have to.

346
00:20:14,646 --> 00:20:19,538
And I do know there's an extra 10 % with the EV9 after it hits zero.

347
00:20:19,538 --> 00:20:23,911
yeah, stress, but it wasn't that stress.

348
00:20:23,911 --> 00:20:28,503
still, my kids in the back were kind of freaking out a little bit.

349
00:20:28,503 --> 00:20:29,633
So not great.

350
00:20:29,633 --> 00:20:35,356
And once again, as an experience from my wife, she's like, this is the reason why.

351
00:20:35,356 --> 00:20:37,997
This is the reason why I would never get an EV.

352
00:20:39,014 --> 00:20:42,327
Yeah, it's the the wife factor just stings when you're already down.

353
00:20:42,327 --> 00:20:46,436
It's just got to kick you kick you right when you're trying to already

354
00:20:46,814 --> 00:20:48,234
experienced that in a car?

355
00:20:48,234 --> 00:20:49,754
I mean, guess it's happened.

356
00:20:50,654 --> 00:20:56,954
But that being said, so I think we've kind of, I think I've chimed on a lot of negatives
here.

357
00:20:56,994 --> 00:21:02,334
But, you know, I speak to a lot of infrastructure people on my show.

358
00:21:02,654 --> 00:21:03,594
I do look at the future.

359
00:21:03,594 --> 00:21:06,654
It's about the user experience and where we're heading.

360
00:21:06,654 --> 00:21:09,094
And I'm sure you do as well.

361
00:21:09,434 --> 00:21:10,894
And the future is bright.

362
00:21:10,894 --> 00:21:13,044
know, IANA in particular.

363
00:21:13,044 --> 00:21:16,536
is something here which I'm super excited and bullish about.

364
00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:22,079
It is the counterpoint to the supercharging network.

365
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:23,500
They've got some big funds.

366
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:30,514
I imagine they're probably relying on some Nevi infrastructure funds, but at the same
time, what is it?

367
00:21:30,514 --> 00:21:34,099
Stellantis, BMW, Hyundai, they're all behind it.

368
00:21:34,099 --> 00:21:38,680
well known large brands with pretty decent reserves to back it up.

369
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:50,280
they've got some deep pockets and you know, took them a while to figure out like, the EV
strategy here, if you build it, they will come no Tesla figured this out a long time ago,

370
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,542
you build a supercharging network, and then you build it.

371
00:21:54,183 --> 00:22:02,249
And then when people know that there is actually a place to a reliable place to charge,
then once again, all the stuff we're talking about here, it goes out the window doesn't

372
00:22:02,249 --> 00:22:03,490
exist anymore.

373
00:22:03,872 --> 00:22:06,233
And IANA is doing some really interesting stuff here.

374
00:22:06,233 --> 00:22:10,735
They're all about the user experience at the rechargeries.

375
00:22:10,735 --> 00:22:14,886
There's amenities there, really clear labels, high-speed chargers.

376
00:22:14,886 --> 00:22:19,628
Someone's on site all the time, so they can nip a problem in the bud.

377
00:22:19,628 --> 00:22:24,110
So they should have some serious uptime reliability.

378
00:22:24,130 --> 00:22:28,392
And if that works, then that's great.

379
00:22:28,392 --> 00:22:33,334
And if you can double the amount of superchargers out there, or high-speed chargers, I
should say.

380
00:22:33,730 --> 00:22:38,976
then I think that's gonna really solve a lot of these issues that we're talking about
today.

381
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,511
No, I totally agree.

382
00:22:40,511 --> 00:22:49,844
And I think one thing to kind of follow up on just like how you were talking about with
your quite a few things actually, but your experience with like the Tesla center, like,

383
00:22:49,844 --> 00:22:51,850
they just have the supercharging network.

384
00:22:52,111 --> 00:22:55,773
And I think that is something that's like, it's just the hardware.

385
00:22:55,954 --> 00:23:03,100
And one of the things they did do a really good job of, and we're seeing this now from
Riv, you know, a couple more of the kind of software focused startups, but it's like

386
00:23:04,121 --> 00:23:07,654
having that information as to one, it's like

387
00:23:07,654 --> 00:23:11,786
Real-time and actually true as what's at the station?

388
00:23:11,786 --> 00:23:13,207
Who's actually there?

389
00:23:13,207 --> 00:23:14,587
Is there a way?

390
00:23:15,568 --> 00:23:24,953
And Tesla has just had that delved in for years and just like kept pushing the the data
you get in the car to really make that effect and I think that's something that Is just so

391
00:23:24,953 --> 00:23:33,658
underrated I'm hoping that as more and more of these other brands are put on the more of
the state is kind of shared to help other EV drivers start to kind of you do have to think

392
00:23:33,658 --> 00:23:37,062
about a little bit different than gas but now that there are so many

393
00:23:37,062 --> 00:23:42,040
You can start to kind of optimize and not have to make it's like such a ration.

394
00:23:42,582 --> 00:23:44,905
or account come come from a point.

395
00:23:45,988 --> 00:23:46,569
Yeah.

396
00:23:46,569 --> 00:23:47,650
Yeah.

397
00:23:48,773 --> 00:23:49,694
Yeah.

398
00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:50,886
Right.

399
00:23:50,886 --> 00:23:52,946
real time live data.

400
00:23:52,946 --> 00:23:53,586
No big deal.

401
00:23:53,586 --> 00:23:59,512
Just like you don't think that this gas station is gonna run a gas, you know, it's like
it's, of course, gonna have gas.

402
00:23:59,512 --> 00:24:01,734
there's been a couple of times where it's really nice to see that live data.

403
00:24:01,734 --> 00:24:10,562
Like, I tried to avoid driving or road tripping on like national holiday weekends, but
there's been a couple of times where we had to, and you can see like, okay, these three

404
00:24:10,562 --> 00:24:12,294
are just swamped and I have enough range.

405
00:24:12,294 --> 00:24:14,356
I can just go like another 20 miles.

406
00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:15,557
There's no one there.

407
00:24:15,557 --> 00:24:17,589
And just like kind of having that, how to think critically.

408
00:24:17,589 --> 00:24:22,173
And with that kind of visibility, you can start traveling faster than, mean,

409
00:24:23,432 --> 00:24:30,325
I don't want to say necessarily faster always than a gas station, but there have
definitely been times where I like people go for the cheapest gas and you're waiting for

410
00:24:30,325 --> 00:24:31,878
the Costco for 30 minutes or something.

411
00:24:31,878 --> 00:24:34,221
I've been there myself, but

412
00:24:34,221 --> 00:24:42,216
it's, know, what, what, what, there's no question just, to do a sort of like a double tap
here on, on Tesla and their technology.

413
00:24:42,216 --> 00:24:51,661
And this is one of those things which I realized of, of, I did a, I drove a, model three,
rented through Turo before I purchased my car.

414
00:24:51,661 --> 00:24:55,123
I just kind of wanted to drive an EV for the first time.

415
00:24:55,864 --> 00:25:00,046
and it was interesting even just to get a little taste of Tesla for the first time.

416
00:25:00,046 --> 00:25:01,806
super excited to check everything out.

417
00:25:01,806 --> 00:25:03,486
And then hopping into the Kia.

418
00:25:03,646 --> 00:25:08,886
And you realize here, is this sort of, know, everyone's beaten this drum for years.

419
00:25:08,886 --> 00:25:10,306
Tesla is not a car manufacturer.

420
00:25:10,306 --> 00:25:11,846
They're a tech company.

421
00:25:11,866 --> 00:25:13,166
But you know what?

422
00:25:13,166 --> 00:25:19,226
They are a tech company and their tech is light years ahead of everyone else.

423
00:25:19,226 --> 00:25:27,926
You can just tell that the awareness of the car and its surroundings is so much more
superior than anyone else.

424
00:25:27,926 --> 00:25:29,376
My Kia is great.

425
00:25:29,376 --> 00:25:39,596
It feels like an audio it's a it's a high end car that Kia is like not known for that and
they really kind of punching above their weight.

426
00:25:39,596 --> 00:25:41,082
It's got so many cool things.

427
00:25:41,082 --> 00:25:42,890
It's got a lot of buttons and people like buttons, right?

428
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:45,492
They want the physical buttons and I like buttons too.

429
00:25:45,492 --> 00:25:45,643
get.

430
00:25:45,643 --> 00:25:47,394
And I think they make some great products.

431
00:25:47,394 --> 00:25:55,739
It is just like, I think they Tesla approaches it from like the epitome of like the
digital first digital mindset.

432
00:25:55,739 --> 00:26:01,733
And I think he has more much more like the analog mindset and how they approach it, which
pro and con to that.

433
00:26:01,733 --> 00:26:02,423
Yeah.

434
00:26:02,659 --> 00:26:04,480
You want tactile feel while I'm driving.

435
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,360
I want to be able to grab something without looking at it.

436
00:26:07,521 --> 00:26:08,971
And that's correct.

437
00:26:08,971 --> 00:26:13,922
That's better in a lot of instances, but you're also beholden to that now.

438
00:26:13,922 --> 00:26:18,354
And when I go through the, Kia, you UI, it's okay.

439
00:26:18,354 --> 00:26:19,954
It's just not great.

440
00:26:19,954 --> 00:26:26,186
You know, it reminds me of a sort of like a, you know, when Nokia.

441
00:26:26,370 --> 00:26:29,513
was the leader in cell phone technology.

442
00:26:29,513 --> 00:26:32,816
And then this iPhone thing came around and you're like the Nokia was super cool.

443
00:26:32,816 --> 00:26:33,857
It did a lot.

444
00:26:33,857 --> 00:26:37,981
But all of a sudden you're like, my God, this is what a phone really can do.

445
00:26:37,981 --> 00:26:45,127
And that's where we are with Tesla and there's still, and even all these great EVs out
there that offer all this really neat stuff.

446
00:26:45,188 --> 00:26:50,553
They're still that far away, I believe, from Tesla's technology.

447
00:26:50,553 --> 00:26:52,205
And that's a big advantage.

448
00:26:52,205 --> 00:27:01,253
yeah, I think just the lesson is sad this one of the analogies I've always used is it kind
of reminds me The Nokia one is funny, but what it reminds me at least for me personally is

449
00:27:01,253 --> 00:27:16,467
like I used to have this old film rebel can't Got him drawn blank the word but a rebel
cannon camera that was film DSLR that's what think of and With that it is you can do so

450
00:27:16,467 --> 00:27:17,298
many cool things

451
00:27:17,298 --> 00:27:20,250
But you have to kind of know, like I gotta do the exposure.

452
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:21,191
gotta do this.

453
00:27:21,191 --> 00:27:28,256
And I kind of feel like that is a little, that's the pro and con to the Kia is like, I
gotta get to the charger just at the right thing.

454
00:27:28,256 --> 00:27:32,779
So I don't have to deal with it like cold gating or not charging at optimal speeds.

455
00:27:32,779 --> 00:27:39,764
kinda, I, I, maybe this has changed, but I know like you kind of have to heat up the
battery or manually precondition all this stuff.

456
00:27:39,764 --> 00:27:40,644
Yeah.

457
00:27:40,718 --> 00:27:41,698
Yeah, of course.

458
00:27:41,698 --> 00:27:48,638
It's like, because I can't trust the route planning app on the Kia because it's, it's, I
don't want to say it's garbage.

459
00:27:48,638 --> 00:27:49,598
That's an exaggeration.

460
00:27:49,598 --> 00:27:50,558
It's just not great.

461
00:27:50,558 --> 00:27:51,558
It's just not great.

462
00:27:51,558 --> 00:27:57,858
It's, it's made a bunch of mistakes and done weird things and offered weird routes and I
just don't like it.

463
00:27:57,858 --> 00:28:05,738
Um, so if you're not using the internal app, now have to remind yourself to precondition
the battery on a road trip.

464
00:28:05,738 --> 00:28:06,702
Another step.

465
00:28:06,702 --> 00:28:08,342
I don't mind it.

466
00:28:08,342 --> 00:28:10,142
It's most people are like, what?

467
00:28:10,142 --> 00:28:10,662
You know, I forgot.

468
00:28:10,662 --> 00:28:11,582
Oh, now I pulled up.

469
00:28:11,582 --> 00:28:12,682
There's a cold battery.

470
00:28:12,682 --> 00:28:13,622
It's a cold day.

471
00:28:13,622 --> 00:28:17,342
It's going to take a lot longer now to, to charge.

472
00:28:17,522 --> 00:28:19,822
And you know, now I've got a whole system in place.

473
00:28:19,822 --> 00:28:27,922
You know, when I, soon as I set the destination, I'll set a reminder on my phone, you
know, alarm to go off or a timer at a certain time.

474
00:28:27,922 --> 00:28:28,582
Okay, fine.

475
00:28:28,582 --> 00:28:29,822
That's preconditioning.

476
00:28:29,822 --> 00:28:30,222
Boom.

477
00:28:30,222 --> 00:28:31,602
Let's do this.

478
00:28:31,602 --> 00:28:34,633
Yeah, it's, uh, you know, it's not elegant.

479
00:28:34,633 --> 00:28:36,865
the, camera analogy is so funny to me is cause.

480
00:28:36,865 --> 00:28:38,246
Yeah.

481
00:28:38,246 --> 00:28:40,148
Cause I used to use this SLR all the time.

482
00:28:40,148 --> 00:28:40,618
I loved it.

483
00:28:40,618 --> 00:28:49,105
And I just, really enjoyed the kind of the process and it was fun, but then eventually my
iPhone camera got good enough and it kind of killed me inside to be taking phone or

484
00:28:49,105 --> 00:28:52,388
cameras, taking pictures with my phone of all things.

485
00:28:52,388 --> 00:28:55,910
But sometimes you just have to go with the thing that's right there.

486
00:28:55,910 --> 00:28:57,001
You don't have to take out of a bag.

487
00:28:57,001 --> 00:28:59,233
You don't have to do all these, like the finicky part of it.

488
00:28:59,233 --> 00:29:00,594
just works.

489
00:29:00,875 --> 00:29:02,845
And exactly.

490
00:29:02,845 --> 00:29:04,138
And that wins the day.

491
00:29:04,138 --> 00:29:04,881
Yeah.

492
00:29:04,881 --> 00:29:12,966
as they always say, the best camera is the camera you have with you and just being able to
pull out your phone real quick and boom, there's, there is advantage that I think that is

493
00:29:12,966 --> 00:29:15,017
something that Tesla has done and understood really well.

494
00:29:15,017 --> 00:29:17,788
But the thing I kind of take a step back about that.

495
00:29:17,788 --> 00:29:25,773
What you're discussing is so fascinating to me and I think is a hundred percent true is
the outward kind of optics.

496
00:29:25,773 --> 00:29:32,326
And what a lot of people think is, well I live in minutes rural Minnesota, or I live
somewhere else.

497
00:29:32,398 --> 00:29:33,529
I can't go there.

498
00:29:33,529 --> 00:29:34,839
There's no EV charges.

499
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:35,519
Well, you start looking.

500
00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:40,652
Yeah, there's usually in a lot of ways I find it's usually easier, especially if you can
charge at home.

501
00:29:40,853 --> 00:29:42,234
That's a decent caveat.

502
00:29:42,234 --> 00:29:53,380
But if you live in a more rural area or even a suburb and you have sometimes even just
level one charging, but can do some form of level two, the day to day especially becomes

503
00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:54,180
so much easier.

504
00:29:54,180 --> 00:30:01,664
In my opinion, it's only maybe when you go on a road trip that you start to like think
about some things, but data, you just forget about it.

505
00:30:01,746 --> 00:30:05,244
Whereas being in a, in your, yeah.

506
00:30:05,244 --> 00:30:07,015
the best thing you could do.

507
00:30:07,015 --> 00:30:13,088
If you could charge, if you can plug in at home, 99 % of the time, that's it.

508
00:30:13,088 --> 00:30:25,585
You never have to charge at a public charger or a level three charger on the road because,
once again, cars typically now have two, 300 plus miles of range and yeah, and you're back

509
00:30:25,585 --> 00:30:30,894
at home and you, that's another of these marketing message thing is, you know, when
there's

510
00:30:30,894 --> 00:30:36,894
get into these discussions with people, you know, I need to guess I need this, I need
that, you know, range anxiety, blah, blah, blah.

511
00:30:36,894 --> 00:30:40,674
You know, this is the reason why, you know, Evie sucking my gas car is better.

512
00:30:40,674 --> 00:30:41,754
I'm like, I pull.

513
00:30:41,754 --> 00:30:44,034
I don't because I don't live at home.

514
00:30:44,034 --> 00:30:47,113
But I'm having these arguments with people or discussions, people that do have homes.

515
00:30:47,113 --> 00:30:53,574
like, you're pulling out of your driveway with a full tank of electrons every single day.

516
00:30:53,614 --> 00:30:57,624
You know, and you've already discounted the fact that you do have to stop

517
00:30:57,624 --> 00:31:03,277
for five to 10 minutes to fill up for gas at the most inopportune moment on a regular
basis.

518
00:31:03,338 --> 00:31:10,422
You've eliminated that out of the equation if you can charge at home and you primarily
drive around town.

519
00:31:10,703 --> 00:31:19,099
But none of that really matters because even for people who only road trip two, three
times a year, it's like they still want that convenience.

520
00:31:19,099 --> 00:31:26,958
I could just say, all right, listen, I've crunched the numbers here and if you're gonna
road trip three times a year, it's gonna cost you, you know,

521
00:31:26,958 --> 00:31:35,678
an hour and 30 minutes more in the light, in a span of a year, more for charging on that
road trip.

522
00:31:35,678 --> 00:31:35,878
Sure.

523
00:31:35,878 --> 00:31:36,798
So you lost an hour.

524
00:31:36,798 --> 00:31:39,878
So you lost half an hour per road trip.

525
00:31:39,878 --> 00:31:48,678
those are 30 minutes per road trip that you won't get back unless you start talking about
all the five minute Phillips you did over the course of the year, which ended up costing

526
00:31:48,678 --> 00:31:50,918
you five hours of time.

527
00:31:50,958 --> 00:31:52,678
So it's a net gain.

528
00:31:52,678 --> 00:31:54,018
It doesn't matter.

529
00:31:54,018 --> 00:31:55,510
All they see is

530
00:31:55,510 --> 00:31:59,892
My road trip's gonna be a half hour longer, therefore, EVs are not for me.

531
00:32:00,262 --> 00:32:07,794
And I think there's even going back to your conversation, the conversation we kind of had
first at where you time that would kind of forced you to get it.

532
00:32:07,994 --> 00:32:15,466
And you had the environmental belief, which I have, I've always kind of believed in scene
two, but I know for a lot of people that maybe they're like, eh, come on the fence or not

533
00:32:15,466 --> 00:32:16,017
sure.

534
00:32:16,017 --> 00:32:23,659
I think just inherently, if you have the ability to charge at home, and especially if
you're fortunate enough to like solar or something, what's really cool is it's

535
00:32:23,659 --> 00:32:28,260
independence that, and I think that is a messaging thing that would

536
00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:37,414
So with more people, if it's positioned that way, but with, think what's really
interesting is given your situation where you do have to like kind of go to the charging

537
00:32:37,414 --> 00:32:43,627
station, it's, it's a more analogous experience day to day with a traditional combustion
vehicle.

538
00:32:43,627 --> 00:32:45,107
And that has its pros and cons.

539
00:32:45,107 --> 00:32:49,469
And I think it's really cool to kind of hear the way you're going about it.

540
00:32:49,469 --> 00:32:50,760
You're just being completely honest.

541
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,581
It's like when it works, it's great, but having that kind of inconvenience and like,

542
00:32:55,581 --> 00:32:57,472
the flow chargers nearby work every time.

543
00:32:57,472 --> 00:33:00,984
That is a gas station-like experience.

544
00:33:00,984 --> 00:33:02,204
They're wonderful.

545
00:33:02,204 --> 00:33:07,816
I really am pulling for them, and I hope they expand throughout this city and throughout
the country.

546
00:33:08,077 --> 00:33:09,837
It was a pilot program.

547
00:33:10,358 --> 00:33:15,540
I know that New York is evaluating other players right now for the expansion.

548
00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:19,501
And the way New York moved, it's probably going to be still a few more years away.

549
00:33:20,202 --> 00:33:21,612
But actually,

550
00:33:21,676 --> 00:33:24,008
I do want to shift gears here for a second.

551
00:33:24,008 --> 00:33:26,309
It's along the lines of what we're talking about right now.

552
00:33:26,309 --> 00:33:30,272
And I'm talking about level two charging in a city in an urban environment.

553
00:33:30,472 --> 00:33:31,663
And this is a big thing, right?

554
00:33:31,663 --> 00:33:39,219
Because no matter what, rationally speaking, most people who live in the cities are really
challenged to own an EV.

555
00:33:39,219 --> 00:33:42,461
And there just aren't enough public chargers right now.

556
00:33:44,442 --> 00:33:46,164
yeah.

557
00:33:46,164 --> 00:33:49,528
Any big city where there's apartment buildings or even

558
00:33:49,528 --> 00:33:52,120
condos, know, it could still even be the suburbs.

559
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,802
There's some challenge, there's a lot of challenges to that.

560
00:33:55,083 --> 00:33:58,145
There's a local company here called It's Electric.

561
00:33:58,145 --> 00:33:59,786
Are you familiar with them at all?

562
00:34:00,110 --> 00:34:01,293
I'm not sure.

563
00:34:01,516 --> 00:34:04,237
So there, it's an amazing concept here.

564
00:34:04,237 --> 00:34:12,030
And I know there's a few other players out here that have different sort of ways of trying
to bring electricity to the masses in urban environments.

565
00:34:12,030 --> 00:34:19,393
But I think the holdup for flow is these charges are still pretty expensive, rip up the
sidewalk, plugging into a substation.

566
00:34:19,393 --> 00:34:21,294
Some people want to do lampposts.

567
00:34:21,394 --> 00:34:27,326
But lampposts are apparently single-phase electricity in the United States.

568
00:34:27,326 --> 00:34:29,047
And they need two-phase electricity.

569
00:34:29,047 --> 00:34:31,438
So there's still going to be a lot of infrastructure.

570
00:34:31,438 --> 00:34:32,698
work that needs to be done.

571
00:34:32,698 --> 00:34:33,518
So it's electric.

572
00:34:33,518 --> 00:34:37,558
Their concept is let's just go to where the electricity is already.

573
00:34:37,558 --> 00:34:51,598
And that is in your apartment building, a storefront commercial, that's on curbside, that
building has electricity and they probably have excess electricity.

574
00:34:51,758 --> 00:34:55,318
So what they're doing, there is still a piloting right now.

575
00:34:55,398 --> 00:35:00,318
What they're doing is they'll say, hey, I happen to live in a condo here.

576
00:35:00,714 --> 00:35:02,776
I've actually put my name on the list.

577
00:35:02,776 --> 00:35:05,097
So they're like, all right, you have a condo.

578
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:10,622
Particularly if it's a modern building, if it's an older one, you may have more
challenges.

579
00:35:11,483 --> 00:35:12,504
I live in a condo.

580
00:35:12,504 --> 00:35:20,290
There's X amount of electricity that's kind of when they lay down the lines, pipe in, it's
supposed to handle the max load of what this building needs, right?

581
00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:21,591
It's up to spec.

582
00:35:21,591 --> 00:35:25,870
But of course, you're not using max electricity.

583
00:35:25,870 --> 00:35:26,730
all the time.

584
00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:30,970
Now, I'm sure in the summer when all air conditions are humming, that might be a different
story.

585
00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:36,890
There's a lot of times here, especially at night, where you're using a very small
percentage of the electricity available.

586
00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:47,310
So they say, Hey, we'll tap in, we're going to handle all the infrastructure, we're going
to handle all of the, you know, we're going to handle all the finances, going to tap into

587
00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:50,022
your electricity, we're going to install these sort of

588
00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:52,410
It's not even a kiosk.

589
00:35:52,410 --> 00:35:54,430
It's these sort of curbside accessories.

590
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:57,090
It looks like a square fire hydrant.

591
00:35:57,090 --> 00:36:00,330
And it's a bring your own cable type of concept.

592
00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:09,010
So if these things are dotted throughout the city, and basically they split the profits
with the building that's providing the electricity.

593
00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:13,010
from the building's perspective, it's like, I don't have to pay for anything.

594
00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:14,550
You're maintaining this thing.

595
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:15,830
I don't have to do anything.

596
00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:18,508
And you're going to give me a small revenue.

597
00:36:18,508 --> 00:36:20,699
share from people are plugging in.

598
00:36:20,699 --> 00:36:26,122
if these things are dotting the city, it's a lot easier because they're plugging into the
infrastructure already exists.

599
00:36:26,122 --> 00:36:28,843
It shouldn't be nearly as expensive to install these things.

600
00:36:28,843 --> 00:36:31,954
It's a really novel concept that could really take off.

601
00:36:31,954 --> 00:36:38,257
I do, when I'm looking at the future, I put my futurist hat on, like, how is this going to
work in an urban center?

602
00:36:38,257 --> 00:36:42,889
How are we going to get full mainstream adoption of EVs?

603
00:36:42,969 --> 00:36:44,450
That to me is the

604
00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:48,075
the path of least resistance and it's something that in theory should work.

605
00:36:48,075 --> 00:36:53,702
So I'm really bullish on them, but it's also probably gonna be quite a few more years
until you see one on every street corner.

606
00:36:54,344 --> 00:37:01,737
But I think that, I mean, that's great to hear there's solutions for it, but I think
that's also one of the things I like just cause it's still years out.

607
00:37:01,737 --> 00:37:03,448
It just means it's going to get better.

608
00:37:03,448 --> 00:37:07,710
There's still opportunity for people to do it now today, but I agree with you.

609
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:09,271
It's like more options, the better.

610
00:37:09,271 --> 00:37:18,315
And we, even when you go to Europe, you're, you're kind of right where there's a lot of
existing systems that have been leveraged to kind of be modernized to equip with the V's.

611
00:37:18,315 --> 00:37:21,684
I think that sounds like a great option for exactly that.

612
00:37:21,684 --> 00:37:23,315
Europe's ahead of the curve.

613
00:37:23,315 --> 00:37:25,276
China's way ahead of the curve.

614
00:37:25,276 --> 00:37:27,477
We are definitely the laggards over here.

615
00:37:27,477 --> 00:37:29,438
There's no question about it.

616
00:37:29,718 --> 00:37:43,626
and you know, with the Trump administration basically freezing all of these, you know,
federal funds, you know, for, you know, the build out, it's gonna take longer.

617
00:37:43,626 --> 00:37:45,057
You know, it's still happening.

618
00:37:45,057 --> 00:37:49,549
The momentum is not stopping, but it is gonna slow down a little bit.

619
00:37:49,549 --> 00:37:51,790
You know, those federal funds.

620
00:37:51,992 --> 00:37:59,225
commingled with private funds, we're going to really accelerate infrastructure growth and
it's going to take a little longer right now.

621
00:37:59,265 --> 00:38:03,647
They've got their ulterior motives behind it.

622
00:38:03,647 --> 00:38:04,208
I get it.

623
00:38:04,208 --> 00:38:07,909
There's a lot of oil money that backed the Trump administration.

624
00:38:08,290 --> 00:38:17,974
I think everyone was hoping that having must there, there'd be some net positive for the
EV industry and in a certain way it's like, actually.

625
00:38:17,974 --> 00:38:25,975
Elimination of federal subsidies for purchase actually probably helps Tesla more than
anyone else because they're the most efficient, you know, electric automaker.

626
00:38:25,975 --> 00:38:27,057
They make more money.

627
00:38:27,057 --> 00:38:29,717
They make money on their on their EVs.

628
00:38:29,817 --> 00:38:31,858
Everyone else loses money on them.

629
00:38:31,858 --> 00:38:33,598
So they're like, fine, whatever.

630
00:38:33,598 --> 00:38:36,539
It's it's we're still going to do better than everyone else.

631
00:38:36,539 --> 00:38:44,221
This is besides the fact of all the stuff that Musk has been doing and turning people off
and really turning people off to Teslas.

632
00:38:44,221 --> 00:38:47,022
But, you know, that's a whole nother.

633
00:38:47,042 --> 00:38:48,264
ball of wax.

634
00:38:48,264 --> 00:38:56,018
But no, I think we were all I think I was hoping that having them there would be a more EV
friendly administration, you know, they're saying one thing, but now in reality, it's

635
00:38:56,018 --> 00:39:00,271
gonna they're still gonna be backing EV infrastructure rollout.

636
00:39:00,271 --> 00:39:01,162
overly optimistic.

637
00:39:01,162 --> 00:39:11,761
I'll just say it's only been one month Maybe the best is yet to come but I agree that does
it not seem to be I to be honest with you was never unfortunately very I I kind of like

638
00:39:11,761 --> 00:39:13,042
yeah, there's a lot of oil money behind this.

639
00:39:13,042 --> 00:39:27,630
I unfortunately don't see this being as Good of an outcome as it could be Maybe that'll
change but we'll Yeah, that's true That's a fair point actually

640
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:30,630
maybe even he has deeper pockets in the oil industry.

641
00:39:30,890 --> 00:39:33,110
Maybe he does, but certainly close.

642
00:39:33,692 --> 00:39:34,062
Yeah.

643
00:39:34,062 --> 00:39:44,670
And I mean, that, that could easily be its own podcast to itself, but I think it is really
interesting just kind of looking at the current state of things and not even politics

644
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:56,449
aside, but I mean, what are some of the conversations you have with people like day to day
that are kind of where you live or just like on the street and that, like, do you find

645
00:39:56,449 --> 00:39:58,620
that it's kind of like a positive curiosity?

646
00:39:58,620 --> 00:40:01,422
Do you find like, it's like kind of almost shock?

647
00:40:01,794 --> 00:40:10,482
I, whenever I've got like into road trips in the Midwest and gun with some really rural
places, people always assume that like I'd begin cold rolled and all these things.

648
00:40:10,482 --> 00:40:12,754
And I was consistently surprised.

649
00:40:12,754 --> 00:40:17,148
Everyone was really like polite and I, I never had like a native experience.

650
00:40:17,148 --> 00:40:21,842
I maybe had one or two like, okay, that's probably not for me, but good on you.

651
00:40:22,253 --> 00:40:25,666
and so I'm, just kind of curious, what your experience has been.

652
00:40:25,666 --> 00:40:26,797
I'm sure it's probably similar.

653
00:40:26,797 --> 00:40:28,047
I always find the,

654
00:40:28,412 --> 00:40:34,745
the disconnect between reality and social media to be pretty much night and day when it
comes to this.

655
00:40:35,123 --> 00:40:43,308
Well, I can tell you here in New York, I mean, I still remember what's gonna told you, you
invested in Tesla a long time ago, man, I still remember seeing like the first like, model

656
00:40:43,308 --> 00:40:44,619
X driving down the street.

657
00:40:44,619 --> 00:40:45,889
like, my god.

658
00:40:45,889 --> 00:40:51,332
And even the cyber truck the first time like, holy smokes, there's one for real in the
wild.

659
00:40:51,332 --> 00:40:53,373
But there's actually a lot of EVs in New York.

660
00:40:53,373 --> 00:40:58,706
And they've incentivized New York City's incentivize all the Uber drivers to buy EVs.

661
00:40:58,706 --> 00:41:00,267
So they're kind of like, everywhere.

662
00:41:00,267 --> 00:41:02,418
They're just mainstream here.

663
00:41:03,675 --> 00:41:08,317
there's still, it's still the minority, but seeing them around is easy.

664
00:41:08,317 --> 00:41:09,678
It's interesting.

665
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:13,747
there's no kind of, you don't hear, there's no cold rolling.

666
00:41:13,747 --> 00:41:17,903
There's none of that stuff here and no one's talking smack about your EV.

667
00:41:17,903 --> 00:41:18,933
It's like, it's whatever.

668
00:41:18,933 --> 00:41:20,274
It's just a car over here.

669
00:41:20,274 --> 00:41:23,625
It's just, just part of the mosaic of New York city.

670
00:41:23,686 --> 00:41:31,750
But it is interesting how, since I started the podcast, a lot of people.

671
00:41:31,904 --> 00:41:36,136
what I call, and you probably call them that as well, the EV curious.

672
00:41:36,136 --> 00:41:39,708
I don't think I, I know I didn't coin that phrase, but I use it all the time.

673
00:41:40,619 --> 00:41:46,722
is, you know, all of a sudden out of the woodwork, friends of mine and acquaintances, my
brother in law is thinking of getting an EV.

674
00:41:46,722 --> 00:41:49,189
Could he talk to you and other friends of mine?

675
00:41:49,189 --> 00:41:49,794
So what's it like?

676
00:41:49,794 --> 00:41:53,324
Tell me more, you know, and my lease is coming up soon.

677
00:41:53,324 --> 00:42:01,999
So get a lot more of those conversations, but still there's a massive hesitancy and still
a lot of people who are even the EV curious, they get gun shy.

678
00:42:01,999 --> 00:42:05,060
They still at the moment of truth, they chicken out.

679
00:42:05,641 --> 00:42:13,365
And that's because there's been so much misinformation that's out there and it's really
hard to combat.

680
00:42:14,486 --> 00:42:19,208
I had an interesting conversation also this morning and this is another side note here.

681
00:42:19,208 --> 00:42:22,872
my EV9 and this is a whole nother story.

682
00:42:22,942 --> 00:42:26,185
It is actually, I love my EV9.

683
00:42:26,185 --> 00:42:27,785
It's a great car.

684
00:42:27,826 --> 00:42:31,768
There's a known issue with front end vibration on these cars.

685
00:42:32,289 --> 00:42:35,111
It's sort of, some cars have it.

686
00:42:35,111 --> 00:42:40,055
Most do not, but I don't think Kia knows how to resolve the issue.

687
00:42:40,055 --> 00:42:47,451
And so, or I actually pulled the lemon law card and said, Hey, you guys tried three times
already to fix this.

688
00:42:47,451 --> 00:42:49,792
The dealership's like, we give up.

689
00:42:50,450 --> 00:42:51,861
And so, Key is really good.

690
00:42:51,861 --> 00:42:55,712
They hook you up with Better Business Bureau and they go, okay, fine, no problem.

691
00:42:55,712 --> 00:42:59,623
You can speak to them and we'll go into arbitration, which is nice.

692
00:42:59,623 --> 00:43:00,913
And that's where we are right now.

693
00:43:00,913 --> 00:43:03,014
So they may be buying it back.

694
00:43:03,014 --> 00:43:06,335
I'm gonna get another EV to be determined which one it is.

695
00:43:06,335 --> 00:43:08,336
I still love the EV9 very well, maybe.

696
00:43:08,336 --> 00:43:11,856
If they just offer me new one, I'll just probably take a new EV9.

697
00:43:12,157 --> 00:43:16,686
But I had to have the inspector come in here and verify the issue of this front end
vibration.

698
00:43:16,686 --> 00:43:21,426
It's just a regular dude that lives here in New York City, Brooklyn resident.

699
00:43:22,426 --> 00:43:25,206
And so of course, we're talking about EVs.

700
00:43:25,566 --> 00:43:29,806
And he's just like, yeah, I don't know.

701
00:43:29,806 --> 00:43:31,606
I think I'm waiting for hydrogen.

702
00:43:32,006 --> 00:43:37,826
And it's like, these are the sort of conversations you hear, whether it's the range
anxiety, I hear these things.

703
00:43:38,566 --> 00:43:43,726
I'm like, no, it's like, hydrogen's not coming for your car.

704
00:43:43,746 --> 00:43:46,382
10 years, you're going to be waiting 100 years, probably.

705
00:43:46,382 --> 00:43:52,222
Uh, hydrogen is for airplanes, possibly for fleet electrification.

706
00:43:52,222 --> 00:43:55,222
Maybe it will in the whole ecosystem.

707
00:43:55,222 --> 00:43:57,982
There is a place for hydrogen, but it's not going to be your EVs.

708
00:43:57,982 --> 00:44:05,802
They, for most, the layman, the lay person does not understand what's going on behind the
scenes that we do because we geek out on this stuff.

709
00:44:05,802 --> 00:44:15,950
And there's all that misinformation, you know, people, uh, another friend of mine, his
wife, she has family up in Ithaca, New York, and that's about a three hour.

710
00:44:15,950 --> 00:44:18,630
drive from here, three to four hour drive from here.

711
00:44:18,990 --> 00:44:24,530
so, know, he's also, you know, with my EVs kind of always, oh, I kind of like to tell you
more about it.

712
00:44:24,530 --> 00:44:25,830
He's one of those guys as well.

713
00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:29,330
I'm like, you know, and his car is quite a few years old.

714
00:44:29,330 --> 00:44:31,590
I'm like, you know, and it's starting to have problems.

715
00:44:31,590 --> 00:44:35,110
I'm like, why don't you, you know, why don't you think about getting one yourself?

716
00:44:35,110 --> 00:44:42,610
And he's like, Oh, no, my wife, he, she says she goes out, she drives up to Ithaca to see
her family like, you know, twice a year, there's no charges up there.

717
00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:45,910
You know, there's no way she could never make it there and back again.

718
00:44:46,126 --> 00:44:50,418
I'm like, all right, this is a simple Google search away.

719
00:44:50,418 --> 00:44:52,066
But it doesn't matter.

720
00:44:52,066 --> 00:44:54,321
I pulled up my route planning app.

721
00:44:54,321 --> 00:44:58,973
And I go, you can almost make it there and back on one charge, first of all, if you got a
Tesla.

722
00:44:58,973 --> 00:45:03,335
And number two, here's like a million chargers that are literally in Ithaca.

723
00:45:03,335 --> 00:45:06,277
You could charge overnight or get fast charge here if you wanted.

724
00:45:06,277 --> 00:45:08,078
That's not an issue.

725
00:45:08,078 --> 00:45:09,049
But it doesn't matter.

726
00:45:09,049 --> 00:45:11,380
His wife is like, these things don't work.

727
00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:13,421
This is too much of a headache.

728
00:45:13,421 --> 00:45:14,051
This is too much.

729
00:45:14,051 --> 00:45:15,502
I don't want to deal with this.

730
00:45:15,566 --> 00:45:17,906
I don't want to deal with learning something new.

731
00:45:18,546 --> 00:45:22,086
All of these things come into play.

732
00:45:22,546 --> 00:45:29,506
People don't want to, you know, they want to, they already have been conditioned to
understand how a gas car works.

733
00:45:29,506 --> 00:45:32,486
You want to get into a new gas car, a nice vehicle.

734
00:45:32,806 --> 00:45:36,846
It's, it's going to do pretty much the same thing that the last one did.

735
00:45:36,846 --> 00:45:38,694
And, you know,

736
00:45:38,914 --> 00:45:42,847
When I got into my Kia, by the way, like I already told you, the UI is OK.

737
00:45:42,847 --> 00:45:43,618
It's not great.

738
00:45:43,618 --> 00:45:44,639
It's complicated.

739
00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:45,600
It's a little clunky.

740
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,030
It's good.

741
00:45:46,030 --> 00:45:47,641
It's not great.

742
00:45:48,062 --> 00:45:57,490
It took me like two weeks to really, you know, I mean, was taking the app or the user
manual, taking it home with me and just studying it like it was a college course.

743
00:45:57,490 --> 00:45:58,931
You know, I wanted to learn.

744
00:45:58,931 --> 00:46:01,273
I would just go out in the car, just hit buttons.

745
00:46:01,273 --> 00:46:04,685
You know, after I, you know, my wife's like, are you coming back in?

746
00:46:04,685 --> 00:46:07,277
I'll see you another hour over here.

747
00:46:09,108 --> 00:46:10,759
Not everyone wants to do that.

748
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:26,690
that's, once again, back to your original question, all of these things, the consensus I'm
getting from everyone around me is X, Y, Z, whatever it is, too complicated.

749
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:28,351
I don't want to deal with it.

750
00:46:28,472 --> 00:46:33,855
And the saving the planet card, it doesn't work.

751
00:46:33,855 --> 00:46:37,777
It's absolutely, positively pointless to...

752
00:46:38,050 --> 00:46:46,323
to for rational people who are still like, yeah, I know climate change is real and we need
to do something, but it's going to make my life more complicated.

753
00:46:46,323 --> 00:46:49,913
And what difference does make if I just change?

754
00:46:50,774 --> 00:46:53,555
If I change to an EVA, it's not going to change anything.

755
00:46:53,895 --> 00:46:55,215
And they're right.

756
00:46:55,295 --> 00:46:56,486
It's a macro thing.

757
00:46:56,486 --> 00:47:00,177
We all have to change.

758
00:47:00,377 --> 00:47:04,014
But that's the constant, constant thing that I'm.

759
00:47:04,014 --> 00:47:07,826
hearing all around is for people who are not totally, totally into it.

760
00:47:07,826 --> 00:47:13,319
The complication of, installing a home charger.

761
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:15,201
I don't know.

762
00:47:15,201 --> 00:47:16,741
Those things are expensive.

763
00:47:16,872 --> 00:47:20,423
Well, and this is kind of this kind of comes back to two earlier things.

764
00:47:20,423 --> 00:47:32,758
One, you mentioned Matt Teske and Chargeway and I think they do really good job of like, I
mean, Matt said for years, like the messaging around electrification and charging, just

765
00:47:32,758 --> 00:47:33,609
call electric.

766
00:47:33,609 --> 00:47:35,279
Just keep it simple.

767
00:47:35,380 --> 00:47:37,620
The messaging has just been god awful.

768
00:47:37,620 --> 00:47:46,934
But the second part to that too is like when you're talking about like plug and hybrids,
cause that's also like, well, maybe I'll just do a plug and hybrid.

769
00:47:47,184 --> 00:47:57,408
And the funny thing that I've seen personally is both my mother-in-law and then my own
mother, their husbands both had EVs first and they do a lot of driving.

770
00:47:57,408 --> 00:48:00,390
And so they're like, well, I'll get a plug-in hybrid.

771
00:48:00,390 --> 00:48:08,072
They are the only people I have seen with plug-in hybrids who actually charge them because
there's already an EV charger at the house.

772
00:48:08,233 --> 00:48:09,413
And in that case, yeah.

773
00:48:09,413 --> 00:48:09,753
Okay.

774
00:48:09,753 --> 00:48:10,474
They're doing it.

775
00:48:10,474 --> 00:48:16,092
They are pretty, consistent about it, but yeah, I mean, I think.

776
00:48:16,092 --> 00:48:20,854
the use case of in theory and like selling the idea of a plugin hybrids nice.

777
00:48:20,854 --> 00:48:25,804
But like when it comes like once you have like, I got to pay like two grand or something
to install it.

778
00:48:26,336 --> 00:48:26,874
whatever.

779
00:48:26,874 --> 00:48:28,937
No, I'll never I'll do.

780
00:48:28,937 --> 00:48:33,039
And so maybe you go to like the grocery store or somewhere there's a level two or
something else.

781
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:35,606
And then you see it's taken by someone in a plugin hybrid.

782
00:48:35,606 --> 00:48:36,960
I've seen that quite a bit.

783
00:48:37,041 --> 00:48:45,524
But I think I think that's one of the interesting things too, is just like going fully V
is that forcing function to actually make

784
00:48:45,798 --> 00:48:52,672
the kind of commitment to actually using it to actually having a battery electric, and
like offsetting a lot of your fuel costs.

785
00:48:52,672 --> 00:49:00,356
Obviously I'm still big fan of just going either go full electric or go like full
combustion and just get a nice like weekend classic car.

786
00:49:00,357 --> 00:49:10,763
But, I, do think it's, still just such an interesting dichotomy of what the messaging is
leading up to a purchase and like how it's positioned where it's like, okay.

787
00:49:10,763 --> 00:49:13,094
I guess I could just do a, a plugin.

788
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:21,426
Electric hybrid but then once you actually have to use the day-to-day it's like, I got to
install that also and That'll be my next car Yeah, exactly

789
00:49:21,426 --> 00:49:23,466
all right, I'll install it eventually.

790
00:49:23,466 --> 00:49:25,226
And then you don't.

791
00:49:25,306 --> 00:49:30,346
And I'm sure some people do it right, much like your family does.

792
00:49:30,346 --> 00:49:37,026
And there are plenty of people who I'm sure are using the plugin hybrids correctly and
have to fuel up once every two months.

793
00:49:37,026 --> 00:49:37,986
And it's wonderful, right?

794
00:49:37,986 --> 00:49:40,146
I mean, it can work.

795
00:49:40,406 --> 00:49:48,246
And this range extender concept, which is basically the same thing, if that technology
really can kind of catch on.

796
00:49:48,366 --> 00:49:53,606
I guess that's going to be a solution that's going to help a lot of people.

797
00:49:53,606 --> 00:49:57,046
I've always got the emergency pack in my car.

798
00:49:57,086 --> 00:50:00,506
There's just another conversation I have with a friend of mine.

799
00:50:00,506 --> 00:50:02,586
wants to the Scout when it comes out.

800
00:50:02,586 --> 00:50:09,286
So he's another EV curious guy who's getting a little more serious than some of my other
friends.

801
00:50:09,326 --> 00:50:10,546
He's like, all right, I got my eye the Scout.

802
00:50:10,546 --> 00:50:14,062
I really like the Scout, even though there's comparable vehicles out right now.

803
00:50:14,062 --> 00:50:15,863
but he's got the Scout and the Scout is marketing.

804
00:50:15,863 --> 00:50:18,964
One of their models will have that range extender.

805
00:50:18,964 --> 00:50:27,647
And he's even telling me, he's like, did you ever think about having like an emergency
battery pack in the back of your car just in case?

806
00:50:27,868 --> 00:50:34,750
And I'm like, that would take up, anything that would be worthwhile would take up all of
this space at all of this weight.

807
00:50:34,851 --> 00:50:39,262
And he's like, yeah, but isn't it nice to know you've got this emergency extra range?

808
00:50:39,262 --> 00:50:43,234
I'm like, yeah, do you have an extra?

809
00:50:43,234 --> 00:50:48,376
gas tank in your car, you know, it's like, no, you look at the at the gas gauge.

810
00:50:48,376 --> 00:50:51,037
And when the light comes on, you take it very seriously.

811
00:50:51,037 --> 00:50:53,398
And that's when you start really looking for a gas station.

812
00:50:53,398 --> 00:51:04,733
And I got listen, my emergency pack is that extra 10 % after it goes to zero, you know,
I'm like, you that I but from him, who's never driven an EV before, like the range

813
00:51:04,733 --> 00:51:06,784
anxiety, this is how you combat it.

814
00:51:06,784 --> 00:51:11,598
And these range extenders, it's the same thing when I look at a car with a range extender
is

815
00:51:11,598 --> 00:51:21,738
Now I got a gas engine in my car that's going to require all of this maintenance
eventually that I don't want to deal with, you know, when the car is a lot older.

816
00:51:22,258 --> 00:51:25,258
And stale gas sitting in the tank.

817
00:51:25,258 --> 00:51:31,932
It's just more complication no matter how big the vehicle is, and how efficient they get,
it's still going to cobble up a lot of useful space.

818
00:51:31,932 --> 00:51:34,252
is like one of the big reasons I got rid of it.

819
00:51:34,252 --> 00:51:35,652
Got rid of driving combustion.

820
00:51:35,652 --> 00:51:38,772
It's just, I drive so much at a lot of oil changes.

821
00:51:38,772 --> 00:51:48,172
And then I think the other thing that's always been so fascinating, I don't know for sure
about all of these irrev style like the scout, but I would imagine it must be is with so

822
00:51:48,172 --> 00:51:56,941
many of the plug-in hybrids, the gas stick is actually under pressure to help prevent the
gas from essentially decaying.

823
00:51:56,941 --> 00:51:57,466
Yeah.

824
00:51:57,466 --> 00:52:00,037
like, that, was kind of the issue with like the Chevy volt.

825
00:52:00,037 --> 00:52:08,611
And so there's like, to me, it's like from an engineering perspective, not only do you
have the concerns that people have that are usually way overplayed when it comes to like

826
00:52:08,611 --> 00:52:16,105
an electric vehicle and the battery in the accident, you now have a gas tank, but you also
have a guesting that's actually under pressure.

827
00:52:16,105 --> 00:52:19,726
And so to me, it's like everything that could go wrong.

828
00:52:19,726 --> 00:52:21,827
You've really just amped up a lot.

829
00:52:22,628 --> 00:52:24,248
and I mean, to me, that's always.

830
00:52:24,384 --> 00:52:29,726
You can engineer around it, but, and same with like hydrogen, but those were always the
things that I would just like this.

831
00:52:29,726 --> 00:52:33,518
You're really overcomplicating it if you're really worried about like concern and that
stuff.

832
00:52:33,518 --> 00:52:36,104
But I do understand.

833
00:52:36,104 --> 00:52:46,353
I feel like when you're going into the purchasing experience and thinking and justifying
of buying an EV or plug and hybrid, that's where range anxiety comes in.

834
00:52:46,353 --> 00:52:54,216
What changes once you have it, depending on the vehicle and just situation is then the
charger society actually in the practice.

835
00:52:54,508 --> 00:52:56,069
And I think that's really the difference.

836
00:52:56,069 --> 00:52:58,230
Cause really now the range isn't the issue.

837
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:59,779
It's usually is the charger.

838
00:52:59,779 --> 00:53:02,251
I'm going to have to go to working.

839
00:53:02,251 --> 00:53:04,352
Fortunately, I haven't ran into that issue.

840
00:53:04,352 --> 00:53:07,153
I've gotten some pretty random remote places.

841
00:53:07,153 --> 00:53:15,687
Well, I mean, even when I've like, even when I went to electrify American, a couple other
ones, but they were all ones I could go through an app and check that they're allegedly

842
00:53:15,687 --> 00:53:18,358
live, which I have been let down by in the past.

843
00:53:18,358 --> 00:53:23,570
But, yeah, no, I was driving through very rural parts of Nevada that had chargers that
said they were live.

844
00:53:23,570 --> 00:53:24,580
And I was like, well,

845
00:53:24,882 --> 00:53:30,757
This is either going to be a one way trip or I'm going to tell the tale and it was fine.

846
00:53:30,757 --> 00:53:34,298
it's like things are definitely getting better, but yeah.

847
00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:35,099
yeah.

848
00:53:35,099 --> 00:53:37,780
But as we discussed, it's not there yet.

849
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:39,701
An interesting little side note here.

850
00:53:39,701 --> 00:53:48,035
So as I mentioned before, KIAs are supposed to be the whole NAC standard, North American
Charging Standard, Phil.

851
00:53:48,035 --> 00:53:51,326
So now I spelled out that acronym as well.

852
00:53:52,047 --> 00:53:57,509
So the NAC standard, as we all know, is the standard plug-in style that we're all going to
use.

853
00:53:57,509 --> 00:53:59,598
That's what are on the Teslas.

854
00:53:59,598 --> 00:54:09,064
chargers they use next and now even Kia's now they're manufactured here in the US are
having next plug everyone's going next that's that's the future CCS is what the legacy

855
00:54:09,064 --> 00:54:18,391
cars like mine have so all you need is an adapter it doesn't really matter you can you
know if the supercharging networks open all you need is adapter I can still plug into a

856
00:54:18,391 --> 00:54:28,187
supercharger but there's a little thing here that no one is mentioning unless you once
again geek out and go in the forums and start speaking the engineering types and do you

857
00:54:28,187 --> 00:54:29,380
know where I'm going with this?

858
00:54:29,380 --> 00:54:32,030
I think I have something to do with voltage.

859
00:54:32,030 --> 00:54:32,658
Yeah.

860
00:54:32,658 --> 00:54:45,358
EGMP of the the Hyundai's and the Kia's, which is a more modern architecture for an EV
than what the Tesla Model 3 and Y have, 400 volt architecture.

861
00:54:45,378 --> 00:54:57,638
So what happens is when you pull up to a supercharged with an 800 volt architecture car,
it they have to have the time it or should I say it doubles the amount of time it takes to

862
00:54:57,638 --> 00:54:57,998
charge.

863
00:54:57,998 --> 00:54:59,358
So suddenly now

864
00:54:59,628 --> 00:55:00,754
for charge time.

865
00:55:00,754 --> 00:55:01,662
Yeah, exactly.

866
00:55:01,662 --> 00:55:13,312
So you get the reliability but but although although there's v4 cabinets coming out for
the superchargers which are capable of powering up an 800 volt

867
00:55:13,312 --> 00:55:16,332
be changing over time in the greater scheme of everything.

868
00:55:16,432 --> 00:55:17,312
But yet you're right.

869
00:55:17,312 --> 00:55:18,892
It is yet to be seen.

870
00:55:18,892 --> 00:55:22,012
I think Tesla has their own reason for doing it.

871
00:55:22,012 --> 00:55:32,852
And to be honest with you, I don't know this for a fact, but it is part of the reason I
think that Tesla hasn't been in a rush to make more 800 volt vehicles other than the cyber

872
00:55:32,852 --> 00:55:38,152
truck, because that was kind of a one-off luxury thing that those buyers will be happy
just to have it.

873
00:55:38,152 --> 00:55:41,266
If they're inconvenienced every now and then by a slower charger, they probably

874
00:55:41,266 --> 00:55:42,418
They're going to be first adopters.

875
00:55:42,418 --> 00:55:43,581
won't mind as much.

876
00:55:43,581 --> 00:55:44,502
Yeah.

877
00:55:45,365 --> 00:55:47,279
And they, did do some engineering around it.

878
00:55:47,279 --> 00:55:48,652
So it kind of splits the pack.

879
00:55:48,652 --> 00:55:51,457
So it's not as effective, but it is effective.

880
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:52,550
And.

881
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:56,653
the Lucid does some weird stuff where it knows how to split the power as well.

882
00:55:56,653 --> 00:56:03,208
And so you actually can get a full speed charge, even on an older Tesla supercharger.

883
00:56:04,190 --> 00:56:05,411
I believe so.

884
00:56:05,411 --> 00:56:08,137
You're more of the engineering type, Chase, than I am.

885
00:56:08,137 --> 00:56:17,617
haven't I haven't played enough with the lucid as I want to but from everything I've seen
Yeah, I think that thing's really cool I would love to play with one of those and kind of

886
00:56:17,617 --> 00:56:25,824
see one more in person but From what I've heard and seen of people in real life again it

887
00:56:26,152 --> 00:56:30,432
It does some clever engineering to kind of help that, but there's still a pretty big
Delta.

888
00:56:30,432 --> 00:56:35,272
mean, um, the pro and con of going to like super high.

889
00:56:35,272 --> 00:56:40,472
I mean, and the problem is with like this whole 400, 800 volt thing, most cars aren't even
800 volt.

890
00:56:40,472 --> 00:56:44,852
Like all the new Porsches are not all of them, but like the McCons like 600 volt
technically.

891
00:56:44,852 --> 00:56:47,132
So there's all sorts of kind of weird things that can happen.

892
00:56:47,132 --> 00:56:53,772
So if like you have a 400 volt, uh, location, but it actually puts out at 500, 600.

893
00:56:53,852 --> 00:56:54,892
Some cars won't be affected.

894
00:56:54,892 --> 00:56:55,572
Others.

895
00:56:55,740 --> 00:57:00,101
But that's a whole nother and even some of the cues are more like high sixes, sevens.

896
00:57:00,741 --> 00:57:13,245
but once again, this is like getting too geeky and then there's so many like different, if
this, then that, but on Tuesday when it's 35 degrees, yada, yada, yada.

897
00:57:13,305 --> 00:57:23,468
And so I am hopeful that the V four cabinets that Tesla is going to do, they really lean
into it just because from what they're saying, who knows what actually happens.

898
00:57:23,468 --> 00:57:25,636
They're saying they're going to have more 800 volt.

899
00:57:25,636 --> 00:57:35,994
vehicles coming out soon and I think that is probably part of the justification to
actually make the experience more consistent with what traditional Tesla drivers have been

900
00:57:35,994 --> 00:57:44,630
used to because if they start running into that I don't think that's gonna be positive and
with the with opening the supercharger network it is in their best interest to make sure

901
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:53,006
that other vehicles that do charge aren't there for a long time to kind of have that
throughput so cautiously optimistic we'll see what happens there

902
00:57:53,098 --> 00:57:59,558
Yeah, I mean, listen, there's the whole thing also with charging curves as well, which
Teslas aren't great with.

903
00:57:59,778 --> 00:58:00,898
Keys are.

904
00:58:00,898 --> 00:58:07,458
They can hold a high throughput for longer, much longer than a Tesla.

905
00:58:07,458 --> 00:58:14,908
Just out of curiosity, what's your kind of average time for 10 % to 80 % stay-to-charge
with Tesla?

906
00:58:14,908 --> 00:58:15,689
That's a great question.

907
00:58:15,689 --> 00:58:17,691
I usually don't charge that long.

908
00:58:18,053 --> 00:58:20,206
or if I do, it's like, went to go do something else.

909
00:58:20,206 --> 00:58:23,851
I'm, I'm, I would love to see it be more in the realm.

910
00:58:23,851 --> 00:58:25,914
it's somewhere in the 20 minutes.

911
00:58:25,914 --> 00:58:27,928
I would imagine probably high twenties.

912
00:58:27,928 --> 00:58:28,350
Yeah.

913
00:58:28,350 --> 00:58:30,130
it's for me.

914
00:58:30,130 --> 00:58:32,270
It's it's also the chargers.

915
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:35,130
There's such variants and you don't trust them.

916
00:58:35,130 --> 00:58:37,510
And even when they're rated, this one's rated at 350.

917
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:38,230
This one's rated.

918
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:39,250
It's hyper fast.

919
00:58:39,250 --> 00:58:40,810
This one's 180.

920
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:43,750
It's kind of like maybe it is.

921
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:45,870
Maybe this is not what I'm seeing.

922
00:58:45,966 --> 00:58:48,017
at a certain voltage versus amperage.

923
00:58:48,017 --> 00:58:51,809
And this one's a different amperage and voltage to get to that three 50.

924
00:58:51,809 --> 00:58:59,752
And I think this is one of those growing pains that will change soon, especially not just
what does like Alpie tronic that supplying the law of the chargers to Iona, like you

925
00:58:59,752 --> 00:59:04,314
mentioned, and others that just have really high performance across the bar.

926
00:59:04,314 --> 00:59:08,566
So it really shouldn't matter what architecture that people,

927
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:20,589
Bring to charge it but I think that I've the whole 800 volt thing has some perks for sure
and I think more and more vehicles will go that way for sure But I think it was overhyped

928
00:59:20,589 --> 00:59:31,379
as being a cure all For I mean, there's I once again, I think there's really cool stuff on
the efficiency side especially but like efficiency and range really is king and then If

929
00:59:31,379 --> 00:59:33,360
it's got good charting even better

930
00:59:33,966 --> 00:59:34,726
Yeah.

931
00:59:34,726 --> 00:59:42,706
And, you know, and kind of once again, tying everything together with what we discussed,
you know, all of these variables, all of these inconsistencies, all of these lack of

932
00:59:42,706 --> 00:59:43,626
standards.

933
00:59:43,686 --> 00:59:49,466
This is the reason why things this is what causes people gives people pause.

934
00:59:49,466 --> 00:59:52,646
They're like, I'm not sure I've heard this.

935
00:59:52,646 --> 00:59:53,666
I've heard that.

936
00:59:53,666 --> 00:59:58,566
And even from us who are the real world experience of it, it's like they're kind of right.

937
00:59:58,726 --> 01:00:00,386
It's still an inconsistent experience.

938
01:00:00,386 --> 01:00:02,086
If you're a road tripper.

939
01:00:02,272 --> 01:00:05,049
if you're not, that's once again, if this, then that.

940
01:00:05,049 --> 01:00:05,516
So.

941
01:00:05,516 --> 01:00:11,276
if, if you're a family that has a house and you need a second car, I don't know why you
wouldn't do electric.

942
01:00:11,456 --> 01:00:13,416
Um, if, yeah.

943
01:00:13,976 --> 01:00:14,379
Yeah.

944
01:00:14,379 --> 01:00:19,285
know, if you're like, OK, I'm concerned about those three road trips here, OK, we'll take
the SUV or the bigger one.

945
01:00:19,285 --> 01:00:20,787
And that's it.

946
01:00:21,028 --> 01:00:26,675
It makes perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect sense already right now today.

947
01:00:27,897 --> 01:00:28,573
But yeah, these.

948
01:00:28,573 --> 01:00:32,556
and there's, are still these edge cases, but they're getting much, much better.

949
01:00:32,697 --> 01:00:45,396
And I am sure they will be solved, but I think in this kind of media realm and just what
people's recent experiences with gas are, they think it's like, this, this needs to be

950
01:00:45,396 --> 01:00:46,666
fixed now.

951
01:00:46,807 --> 01:00:53,739
And I'm always reminded, this is kind of just a fun automotive trivia is like when diesel
first was offered in a lot of vehicles, you

952
01:00:53,739 --> 01:00:54,989
that blue tech, right?

953
01:00:54,989 --> 01:00:56,017
Volkswagen.

954
01:00:56,017 --> 01:01:00,064
Well, yeah, no, no way before this like in the 50s 60s.

955
01:01:00,876 --> 01:01:01,600
Yeah.

956
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:07,934
I remember when these old Mercedes diesels came out and you know, chugging with this black
smoke coming out of the rear.

957
01:01:07,934 --> 01:01:11,249
Yeah, that was supposed to be the future.

958
01:01:11,249 --> 01:01:23,473
is when they first started rolling out cars in the U S that had diesel or ran on diesel,
they actually gave you a map with the car to show you which gas stations around the U S

959
01:01:23,473 --> 01:01:24,974
offered diesel.

960
01:01:25,214 --> 01:01:26,975
And it's so it's like, and it took a decade.

961
01:01:26,975 --> 01:01:30,935
took decades to get this all figured out, to have all of them, to have diesel at these
locations.

962
01:01:30,935 --> 01:01:32,576
was obviously the infrastructure was there for the truck.

963
01:01:32,576 --> 01:01:34,127
So on the highways, it was never an issue.

964
01:01:34,127 --> 01:01:37,539
Ironically, it's the exact opposite that you have with EVs now.

965
01:01:37,539 --> 01:01:40,821
So highway driving was easy with the diesel.

966
01:01:40,821 --> 01:01:42,302
And I had one, by the way.

967
01:01:42,302 --> 01:01:47,184
I had a Volkswagen VW It was used.

968
01:01:47,645 --> 01:01:48,975
It was one of my first cars.

969
01:01:48,975 --> 01:01:52,107
It was a 1980 Volkswagen Rabbit diesel.

970
01:01:52,608 --> 01:01:56,210
And so it got 50 miles to the gallon.

971
01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:57,140
It could

972
01:01:58,511 --> 01:01:58,966
Yeah.

973
01:01:58,966 --> 01:02:00,166
hour with a headwind.

974
01:02:00,166 --> 01:02:00,786
That was it.

975
01:02:00,786 --> 01:02:01,966
You're stuck it.

976
01:02:01,966 --> 01:02:05,246
If you had a slight, if you had a slight grade, you could get it to 70.

977
01:02:05,246 --> 01:02:08,586
It was slow as a four speed stick.

978
01:02:08,686 --> 01:02:13,166
Um, and I kind of loved it also, but yeah, that, that, that fuel gauge just didn't move.

979
01:02:13,166 --> 01:02:14,466
It just stayed there forever.

980
01:02:14,466 --> 01:02:15,766
It was kind of amazing.

981
01:02:15,766 --> 01:02:21,606
But yeah, when you got off the highway and you went into towns, you learned she's way
before the internet, right?

982
01:02:21,606 --> 01:02:22,506
I didn't have a map either.

983
01:02:22,506 --> 01:02:23,406
I bought that thing used.

984
01:02:23,406 --> 01:02:24,686
You just learned.

985
01:02:24,814 --> 01:02:29,314
here's in my college town, here's where that one gas station that sells diesel is in you.

986
01:02:29,314 --> 01:02:33,934
And the good news, once again, is that the car probably had about 500 miles of rain.

987
01:02:33,954 --> 01:02:43,614
you you learned, you learned not to go to eat, you learned, you know, if you were in
unfamiliar territory, by the time you got to a quarter tank, still plenty left, you

988
01:02:43,614 --> 01:02:46,982
started kind of looking around for a place to fill up.

989
01:02:47,304 --> 01:02:51,336
So it's the, it's kind of just looking at the history of it is why I stay optimistic.

990
01:02:51,336 --> 01:02:55,510
This isn't the first time that there have been these in the scheme of things.

991
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:57,951
This isn't a very wild technological thing.

992
01:02:57,951 --> 01:03:02,874
Not only are you having to figure out all the gas infrastructure, you literally just need
electricity.

993
01:03:03,095 --> 01:03:08,839
And I've been doing this more this past year, just because of moving and having a rental.

994
01:03:08,839 --> 01:03:12,362
We've been level one charging way more than I expected to be.

995
01:03:12,362 --> 01:03:13,572
And it's been totally fine.

996
01:03:13,572 --> 01:03:15,864
And we still drive between,

997
01:03:15,964 --> 01:03:17,767
Bend and Hood River, Hood River and Portland.

998
01:03:17,767 --> 01:03:21,714
So doing 100, 150 mile trips regularly.

999
01:03:22,417 --> 01:03:24,750
and it's been fun just on level one charging.

1000
01:03:24,768 --> 01:03:28,257
Yeah, and truly you're the perfect case of that you get away with it.

1001
01:03:28,257 --> 01:03:32,418
So for everyone that doesn't know what level one is.

1002
01:03:32,488 --> 01:03:36,571
I mean, there's, there's ways to hack it, but it just shows that it is doable.

1003
01:03:36,590 --> 01:03:44,450
Yeah, so just for everyone who's also uninitiated, level one is just your AC outlet, 110.

1004
01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:49,330
And it's going to, it's sort of like a, what does it give you, like a mile an hour or
something like that?

1005
01:03:49,330 --> 01:03:50,950
Is that the speed?

1006
01:03:51,130 --> 01:03:53,464
Maybe two or three miles per hour of charge?

1007
01:03:53,464 --> 01:03:54,764
I think it's like five or something.

1008
01:03:54,764 --> 01:03:59,184
And then it's like, I never use the miles per the mile rating.

1009
01:03:59,184 --> 01:04:00,424
Cause that I was just thinking that's BS.

1010
01:04:00,424 --> 01:04:04,344
So just go off percent and that's like one to one and a half percent per hour.

1011
01:04:04,344 --> 01:04:09,524
But at the same time, I mean, and that, kind of goes to the beauty of just like having a
really efficient vehicle.

1012
01:04:09,524 --> 01:04:18,224
It just means you add that much more charge faster, even all of these things, but I'm
still blown away by the fact that I can plug my car into the same outlet.

1013
01:04:18,224 --> 01:04:22,351
I put my electric toothbrush in and it still charges it.

1014
01:04:23,615 --> 01:04:28,588
It doesn't, mean, even if it's slow, it's, it's kind of wild that that little power can
power my car.

1015
01:04:28,588 --> 01:04:30,479
And as you mentioned, you drive a lot.

1016
01:04:30,479 --> 01:04:34,001
And when you have a Tesla and you have a reliable supercharger network, all right, fine.

1017
01:04:34,001 --> 01:04:35,972
So for this trip, it's not going to work.

1018
01:04:35,972 --> 01:04:41,064
So I guess I'll have to stop and plug in on the way towards my destination.

1019
01:04:41,064 --> 01:04:46,226
And it won't be a big deal, because I have full faith that the charging experience is
going to be a good one.

1020
01:04:46,226 --> 01:04:54,210
And yeah, and you're a perfect example of why you don't even necessarily need to even
install that level two charger, which, by the way,

1021
01:04:54,328 --> 01:05:02,198
Ford now and I think one other manufacturer is starting to offer like basically a free
level two charger with the purchase because they understand that's a friction.

1022
01:05:02,198 --> 01:05:03,561
and made it like, this is the challenge.

1023
01:05:03,561 --> 01:05:06,124
This needs to be solved and we'll help buyers do it.

1024
01:05:06,124 --> 01:05:11,240
Yeah, it's another marketing thing, which I think is a really smart move.

1025
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:12,562
It's one less thing to worry about.

1026
01:05:12,562 --> 01:05:15,524
And with level two, once again, you're getting a full charge overnight.

1027
01:05:15,545 --> 01:05:20,170
just in case that's a problem, you're too concerned about that, it solves that issue as
well.

1028
01:05:20,488 --> 01:05:24,248
You know, Rob, I, know, I, I appreciate all this and this has been a really great
conversation.

1029
01:05:24,248 --> 01:05:34,328
realize we've kind of come up to time, but one thing I wanted to ask you, especially being
the urban Evie, uh, podcast man himself and living in New York, we, talked about a little

1030
01:05:34,328 --> 01:05:37,888
bit around ride share drivers and kind of Evie charging.

1031
01:05:38,068 --> 01:05:39,548
That's been kind of a common topic.

1032
01:05:39,548 --> 01:05:49,064
I feel like for quite a few of the last episodes is like Evie go, I forget how many
quarters ago released this data saying that 25 % of their public charging.

1033
01:05:49,064 --> 01:05:51,964
is actually due to ride share drivers.

1034
01:05:51,964 --> 01:05:56,584
And I'm kind of curious just in your experience, like you have this fortunately really
close to you.

1035
01:05:56,584 --> 01:06:04,404
Is that, do you see as that being kind of a combative thing or an issue you run into as
like when you're trying to get that charger, it is usually a ride share driver or someone

1036
01:06:04,404 --> 01:06:07,726
visiting from out of the city or a local also charging their EV.

1037
01:06:07,726 --> 01:06:09,186
It's a valid question.

1038
01:06:09,186 --> 01:06:17,686
Ironically, I don't see that many rideshare chargers on the level two charges because they
need to because unless they happen to live right next door, they're going to have to keep

1039
01:06:17,686 --> 01:06:19,386
it on that charger for hours.

1040
01:06:19,386 --> 01:06:21,746
So it's not it's it's not worth their while.

1041
01:06:21,746 --> 01:06:24,546
They're going to all the you they're going to the fast chargers.

1042
01:06:24,546 --> 01:06:26,386
And that's where it's a mob scene.

1043
01:06:26,386 --> 01:06:31,926
And I've heard horror stories like near the airport where all the taxi drivers congregate.

1044
01:06:31,926 --> 01:06:33,106
Big lines.

1045
01:06:33,106 --> 01:06:34,726
I know some of the chargers there.

1046
01:06:34,726 --> 01:06:36,166
It might be Electrify America.

1047
01:06:36,166 --> 01:06:37,746
I can't remember which which.

1048
01:06:37,998 --> 01:06:43,718
which charge point operator is, they sent out some message saying, hey, 80 % you're cut
off.

1049
01:06:43,718 --> 01:06:49,258
You're not allowed to sit here and charge to 100 anymore because there's too long of a
line.

1050
01:06:49,278 --> 01:06:59,778
So there are these challenges in urban centers where the high speed chargers are, where
you are going to be competing with the ride share drivers.

1051
01:06:59,778 --> 01:07:05,758
But once again, within the urban center, if you do live in an urban center,

1052
01:07:05,782 --> 01:07:14,750
If you're solely relying on high speed charging, which by the way, it's comparable to gas
as far as how much it costs per kilowatt hour.

1053
01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:20,655
So you're not, it's already a little more expensive to buy the EV and now the fuel is
basically the same thing.

1054
01:07:20,655 --> 01:07:23,798
You're probably, you don't have access to a level two.

1055
01:07:23,798 --> 01:07:28,872
You're probably, you're an edge case and you probably should not be getting an EV at this
moment.

1056
01:07:28,872 --> 01:07:33,580
You should have at the very least access to a public level two charger.

1057
01:07:33,580 --> 01:07:37,031
So I find the ride share drivers are pretty much in the urban areas.

1058
01:07:37,031 --> 01:07:41,343
But if you do have public level two charging nearby, it's worth your while.

1059
01:07:41,343 --> 01:07:48,336
But if you want to compete with the, with the level threes, you, you may have some
challenges depending on where you are.

1060
01:07:48,336 --> 01:07:49,777
It depends on what part of the city.

1061
01:07:49,777 --> 01:07:56,119
know some, there's a charger near me where, it's near where my son plays soccer, where
I've topped off over there.

1062
01:07:56,119 --> 01:08:00,641
And it's, it's, it's been full, you know, quite a few times.

1063
01:08:00,641 --> 01:08:01,101
It's funny.

1064
01:08:01,101 --> 01:08:01,542
It's interesting.

1065
01:08:01,542 --> 01:08:02,414
Just, just in the.

1066
01:08:02,414 --> 01:08:05,694
Last two years I drove by even before I had an EV, it used to be empty.

1067
01:08:05,694 --> 01:08:08,254
Empty every time, like they're going out of business.

1068
01:08:08,874 --> 01:08:18,234
It's actually, I didn't realize this is a part of micro grids, which they're sort of,
their main business is battery storage.

1069
01:08:18,234 --> 01:08:22,494
So they're store of like supplementary storage for the grid.

1070
01:08:22,494 --> 01:08:26,954
So they have these big massive battery packs and they're like, all right, we might as well
put a charger here while we're at it as well.

1071
01:08:26,954 --> 01:08:30,834
But I didn't know what that at the time, I'm driving by, I'm like, they're going out of
business.

1072
01:08:30,834 --> 01:08:32,574
Slowly but surely over two years,

1073
01:08:32,916 --> 01:08:35,008
my God, I see someone charging in there.

1074
01:08:35,008 --> 01:08:40,023
And I actually made a social media post about this about three or four months ago.

1075
01:08:40,023 --> 01:08:42,655
This is the first time I saw it full and a line.

1076
01:08:42,655 --> 01:08:45,958
The first time I saw it full and then the next day I saw a line to get in there.

1077
01:08:45,958 --> 01:08:50,321
And they were all and now every time I drive by it's almost always full and it's ride
share drivers.

1078
01:08:50,321 --> 01:08:54,315
Yeah, they've discovered that that charger now it's obviously where it's gotten out.

1079
01:08:54,315 --> 01:09:00,654
So yeah, you're you're you're there are challenges in some urban areas for level three
charging.

1080
01:09:00,654 --> 01:09:07,214
But to be quite honest with you, most people who live in these areas, you really don't use
them.

1081
01:09:07,214 --> 01:09:12,956
You almost never use them because you do have access to the level twos, if you have access
to level twos.

1082
01:09:12,956 --> 01:09:16,696
about where we just compare it to the traditional fueling industry.

1083
01:09:16,696 --> 01:09:21,476
it's like, well, most taxi drivers don't go to a gas station or fleet vehicles.

1084
01:09:21,476 --> 01:09:22,296
Don't go to the gas station.

1085
01:09:22,296 --> 01:09:24,596
There is commercial fueling location.

1086
01:09:25,656 --> 01:09:27,856
I mean, it's not uncommon.

1087
01:09:27,856 --> 01:09:36,136
They might have a fueling car, but in a lot of times, a lot of places, even in large
cities, they'll usually have a commercial fueling station or location, or even at the taxi

1088
01:09:36,136 --> 01:09:38,896
place itself that they get discounted gas.

1089
01:09:38,896 --> 01:09:39,410
So.

1090
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:45,863
There's things like that that I'd love to see that would help kind of maybe pull some of
that off of these for that experience.

1091
01:09:45,863 --> 01:09:46,344
But you're right.

1092
01:09:46,344 --> 01:09:53,007
Like the more hotels or other places, especially for people visiting that can have that
level too, you really don't need it.

1093
01:09:53,007 --> 01:09:54,628
Or even easy level one.

1094
01:09:54,628 --> 01:09:54,975
Yeah.

1095
01:09:54,975 --> 01:09:56,056
is a big thing here.

1096
01:09:56,056 --> 01:10:00,358
And I've kind of made the argument that hopefully eventually it's going to be the
continental breakfast and the free coffee.

1097
01:10:00,358 --> 01:10:05,601
If the hotel doesn't offer it, you just go to the next one because that one is offering it
and I need it.

1098
01:10:05,601 --> 01:10:07,643
And I think there's going to be a critical mass.

1099
01:10:07,643 --> 01:10:08,942
It has not happened yet.

1100
01:10:08,942 --> 01:10:13,054
I'm just kind of amazed at how few hotels offer level two charging.

1101
01:10:13,054 --> 01:10:19,409
Obviously there's still some upfront capital costs, but I know these big chains can afford
it they just have to see the value proposition.

1102
01:10:19,409 --> 01:10:21,144
And eventually when everyone has it,

1103
01:10:21,144 --> 01:10:25,058
then the value proposition will be there because they'll be losing business when they
don't have it.

1104
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,712
But yeah, that's for another day.

1105
01:10:28,412 --> 01:10:30,204
Rob, no, thank you so much for coming on today.

1106
01:10:30,204 --> 01:10:31,695
This was a great conversation.

1107
01:10:31,695 --> 01:10:32,732
Pleasure to meet you.

1108
01:10:32,732 --> 01:10:35,117
I'm looking forward to having more on here.

1109
01:10:35,118 --> 01:10:42,890
For anyone that is listening, what's the best way to keep up and learn about your podcast
and the other of the services that you're offering right now.

1110
01:10:42,890 --> 01:10:47,113
Well, you can well, well, I'm a video producer by trade.

1111
01:10:47,634 --> 01:10:49,845
So that is sort of my thing.

1112
01:10:49,845 --> 01:10:51,106
I like producing podcasts.

1113
01:10:51,106 --> 01:10:53,618
I like producing video content as well.

1114
01:10:54,619 --> 01:10:57,101
But you can find me.

1115
01:10:57,101 --> 01:11:03,165
You can find my podcast, the Urban EV podcast on Spotify, on Apple podcasts.

1116
01:11:03,166 --> 01:11:04,547
Pretty active on LinkedIn.

1117
01:11:04,547 --> 01:11:07,079
That's my main social media channel.

1118
01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:08,710
Once again, Urban EV.

1119
01:11:09,123 --> 01:11:13,558
The websites are in eevee.co, but does that even matter anymore?

1120
01:11:13,558 --> 01:11:15,926
anyone go to websites?

1121
01:11:15,926 --> 01:11:20,115
be sure to have links to all of them in today's show notes for people just have that
direct link, but

1122
01:11:21,644 --> 01:11:22,148
Yes.

1123
01:11:22,148 --> 01:11:22,697
show.

1124
01:11:27,822 --> 01:11:30,103
That wraps another episode of Grid Connections.

1125
01:11:30,103 --> 01:11:38,509
A huge thanks to Robert Hoffman for sharing his experiences in shedding light on what it
truly takes to own and charge an electric vehicle in a dense urban environment.

1126
01:11:38,509 --> 01:11:46,853
From the challenges of fast charging reliability to the exciting potential of curbside
solutions, we hope this episode has given you fresh insights into the evolving electric

1127
01:11:46,853 --> 01:11:48,314
vehicle landscape.

1128
01:11:48,314 --> 01:11:53,558
If you found today's conversation valuable, be sure to share this episode with someone who
might enjoy it as well.

1129
01:11:53,558 --> 01:11:54,722
And while you're at it,

1130
01:11:54,722 --> 01:12:01,825
Leave us a quick review on your favorite podcast platform and really helps us reach more
EV enthusiasts and industry leaders.

1131
01:12:01,865 --> 01:12:04,686
And don't forget to sign up for our new Grid Connections newsletter.

1132
01:12:04,686 --> 01:12:09,167
Get expert insights, exclusive content, and the latest updates straight to your inbox.

1133
01:12:09,208 --> 01:12:13,049
The signup link and all of today's content can be found in today's show notes.

1134
01:12:13,049 --> 01:12:17,181
Thanks for tuning in and this is the Grid Connections Podcast signing off.