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< Intro >

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– Welcome back to Count Me In.

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In this episode, we have the privilege
of interviewing Yerbol Orynbayev.

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Who shares his extraordinary

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leadership journey, and the
impactful lessons he's learned.

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Yerbol's experiences range

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from serving as Deputy
Prime Minister of Kazakhstan,

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to transforming the Jusan Bank

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from near bankruptcy to
achieving $1.2 billion in profit.

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Throughout the episode,

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Yerbol sheds light on the
crucial decisions and strategies

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that were pivotal in
leading the bank to success.

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His insightful advice on leadership,

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vision, investing in people,

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and embracing failures
provides valuable lessons

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for aspiring leaders.

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Join us as Yerbol shares his
invaluable wisdom and experiences,

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on navigating crisis and driving change.

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< Music >

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Yerbol, we're really excited
to have you on the podcast.

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I'm just really excited to chat with you,

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about your leadership journey and
the different paths you've taken,

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and you've had quite
the leadership journey.

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What drew you to the different
positions that you've taken,

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and what are some of the lessons
you've learned along the way?

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you've learned along the way?

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– Adam, first of all, thank you
very much for this opportunity

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to share my experience
about Jusan Bank story,

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with you, with your program.

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I worked for the government of 
Kazakhstan for quite a long time.

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I resigned in 2015.

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Before that time, before my resignation,
I served as the deputy prime minister

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and handled economic and
then social responsibilities.

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And, so, in 2018, when I was
already with the private sector,

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working on my own business.

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I received an invitation
from the university,

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which asked me to help them to set up

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the investment division
of the endowment fund.

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So it was a very exciting proposal.

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I believe they decided to focus on me

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and then send this invitation to me

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because during my time
with the government,

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I served as a board member of
the National Bank of Kazakhstan.

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The board member of
the Agency for Supervision

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of the financial organizations.

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I also, successfully, set up a
western-type university in Kazakhstan.

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So a lot of people knew me very well.

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So they said, "Okay, why not,
after one successful story,

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one successful project, let's
offer him this opportunity."

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So in 2018, I started this journey,
the Jusan Bank with other banks,

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and I had this great opportunity
to create the investment division

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of the endowment fund.

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So that's how I started this
particular journey with the Jusan Bank,

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with its restructuring,

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creating a new business
model based on the ecosystem.

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In terms of the lessons,
actually, it was very interesting

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and enriching experience.

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I learned very valuable lessons.

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One of them is that you should
really understand your business,

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and then your customers.

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And, then, currently, there is a great shift,

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all over the world, in terms
of the customers behavior.

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New technologies like AI, digitalization,

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increased computational capacities, and
also the new generation of customers,

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they have completely
different preferences.

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So these two trends kind of
changed the whole landscape.

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So you have to understand your clients,

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you have to understand
your business within/out,

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know your customers.

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Because if you don't
know you cannot lead,

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and you cannot restructure
or do some right things

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without this really deep
knowledge and understanding

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the main foundations of your business.

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The second lesson I
would say that, dream big.

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What I learned, in reality, with
great vision, with the right team,

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with the right strategy, with
the right implementation plan,

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you can achieve a lot.

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So dreaming big it's very important.

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The third lesson I would say that
always have an exit strategy,

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especially when you're
dealing with the big structures.

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Together, the whole system,

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I managed about 10,000 employees.

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So this is quite big, the price of
the mistake could be very high,

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but you cannot stop
development, you have to innovate,

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You still should align your
business, product, services,

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in line with the current demands.

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So you should innovate,
you should do something new,

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but exit strategy is very important.

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This is your hedge, that makes
sure that the whole structure

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won't collapse if something
goes wrong, this is very important.

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Trust your team, I think
team is very important.

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The quality of the people
you are working with,

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their professionalism, their
ethics are very important.

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So as soon as you set up your team,

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you know that you can trust
your people, just let them perform.

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And in the banking sector, this is
more important than even others

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because teamwork is incredible.

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This is very important.

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I didn't see a person who
can just, in one phase,

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cover all requirements of the banking.

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You need a strong CFO, you
need a strong risk manager,

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you need a strong
chief information officer,

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so you see this is very complex.

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And then you can, together, compile
the team, or the professionals,

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who can work together, who
can share the same vision,

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who has very good ethics, only
with this one you can proceed.

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So this is a very important lesson.

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If you are unsure about
your team, don't start.

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Because alone you cannot
perform, you cannot achieve.

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So I would say these are
very important lessons

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I learned from my journey with Jusan.

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– I think those are
some amazing lessons.

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And maybe as we have this conversation,

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we'll be able to see how you
came to those lessons at Jusan,

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as we talk through that journey.

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So when you first
stepped into that challenge,

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they said, "Hey, we want to
bring you on the Jusan Bank."

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What was the atmosphere like?

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What were some of the challenges

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and the immediate hurdles that
you saw that you had to jump over,

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as you started that
new part of your journey?

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– This, actually, was very interesting.

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So when I took the reins of the bank,

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the situation was pretty horrible.

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So I had a feeling like
starring into the beast.

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I just give you one example.

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The bank's auditors, KPMG, they came
to us, after we purchased the bank,

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and then told us that they won't
be able produce any audit report.

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They said, "We have
access to the accounts,

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but the accounts are a mess,
documentation is such a mess,

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so we just even cannot interpret them."

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And the bank did not have people
who can interpret and work on this one.

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So can you imagine?

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So 2018, the year they audited,

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was completely a failure,
and according to the regulation

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you still proceed because the public,
the regulator, would like to know.

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So this is one of the example
how the bank was managed.

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Also in terms of the business
and the morale of the employees,

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it was a complete mess.

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Two years' worth of the
efforts by the government

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and the bank administration
failed to turn things around.

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So it seemed like the
hope was completely lost.

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So this was the overall landscape
and the atmosphere, environment,

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at the time we entered the bank.

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Then we faced, I would say,
major three challenges.

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The first one is the lack
of the professionals,

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and we didn't have a lot
of time to search for people,

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but we had to address this
issue almost immediately.

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So to fill in the gaps in terms of the
management was very important,

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so we successfully did it.

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– Those are some amazing challenges

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that you had to face,
and I can only imagine

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what it took to gain the
trust of your employees.

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And how did you navigate
those waters of gaining trust;

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stakeholders, employees,
customers, trying to win back.

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Because getting an audit like that from
KPMG, and having to turn that around

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and turn the company
around is not an easy task.

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So what steps did you take

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to try to gain that trust from your team?

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– First of all clear communication,
so you should be as transparent

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and honest as possible.

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Because in this critical situation, and
this mostly was crisis management,

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you should be communicating
almost daily, which we did.

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Then we also came up
with the smart strategy,

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which we called—quick successes.

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So we wanted to demonstrate
that things are in terrible shape,

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but that we were able to produce,

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even in the short run,
some positive outcomes.

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So we came up with this
strategy of the short successes,

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and within three, four months, we
already produced new products.

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We produced even some small app, which
addressed the disadvantages of this bank,

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so it was very successful.

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Doing this, we also bought some
time to focus on our longer strategy,

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restructuring, recovering
from the junk assets,

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and in parallel building
our ecosystem model.

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So this short successes
strategy helped a lot.

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– Now, there's something you mentioned,

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the ecosystem model.

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I remember reading about that,

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and it's not something that everybody 
appreciates, in the banking sector.

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Maybe you can talk a little bit
about what the ecosystem model is,

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and some of the challenges and
criticism you faced when implementing it.

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because I know not everybody
is a fan of that type of model.

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– The ecosystem models they're
about bundling different services,

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traditional banking services,
with non-banking services.

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So you bundle them, and then
introduce on some digital platforms.

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So in a nutshell, this is
the essence of this model.

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Behind this business
model are two trends.

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One is the change preferences.

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So the new generations, they don't
like the traditional way of banking.

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So with the introduction
of the smartphones,

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everybody spends most
of the time over there.

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So they would like digital way
of interacting with the banks,

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receiving loans, making payments.

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So the new generation,
they're the drivers of this trend.

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And the second one, of course, the
increased computational capacities,

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which allow these things to
happen on the digital platforms.

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And then the first year we introduced this
model, we actually started implementing

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at the end of the 2019, 

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And then 2020 was the most busiest year,

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In terms of the implementation and
introduction of this, that our branches,

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all over the country, and the Jusan Bank

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used to have more than 150
branches, across the country.

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The business model of these
branches changed significantly.

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So when, initially, we introduced,

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people mostly visited our branches
to learn how to use our app,

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and then how to use our browser.

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So we just trained,
every day, our customers,

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and they came by themselves.

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They just wanted to use it,

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but they had some reservations or
some questions, so mostly we spent...

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By the end of the 2020, we saw that
we don't need any branches anymore

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because people stopped
visiting branches.

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And, so, we managed to rationalize
the whole system of our branches,

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which we ended up with a
lot of the savings, actually.

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– Mh-hmm, so it was
used to take the bank

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from how banking has always
been done to modern banking,

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which is kind of what you see now, today.

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I can't remember the last time
I was at a branch, for my bank.

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It's probably been a year or
so since I've been at the bank,

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so I think everybody's used to that now.

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But 10 years ago you did
everything at the branch.

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And, so, it shows the sector
has changed so much,

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but it was obviously very successful.

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– Absolutely, it was very successful.

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It was very reasonable to do, it
was the requirements of the time.

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But by the time we implemented
it was still emerging.

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So now it's more or less established,

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at least in Kazakhstan, in the
former CIS countries, in China.

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In a nutshell, the banking still is the
same, as traditionally we understand it.

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This is the intermediary
which accepts deposits,

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and then makes loans, and then
facilitate transition of the savings

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into productive investments, but the
way how you do it, completely different.

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– I mean that's amazing.

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It's public record, but you
guys were near bankruptcy

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and it went up to $1.2 billion in
profits, and that's no small feat.

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And it took a lot of leadership
decisions, and the leadership positions 

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that you've been in, I'm sure that there
are moments of very intense pressure.

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And maybe you can share some of
the specific high-stake decisions

240
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,360
that you've had to make, and how
you approach those decisions.

241
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,827
Because not everybody is built to
make those high-stakes decisions,

242
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,661
especially, in intense situations, and
it's very difficult to walk through that.

243
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,661
So I'd love to hear your insight.

244
00:14:12,161 --> 00:14:15,327
– Thank you, Adam, I think
this is a very good question.

245
00:14:15,327 --> 00:14:20,327
So to make this transformation
successful, at the beginning 

246
00:14:20,327 --> 00:14:25,161
we split the bank into the
bad and the good divisions.

247
00:14:25,161 --> 00:14:28,161
Because we dealt with
some great garbage,

248
00:14:28,161 --> 00:14:30,994
I would say a mess;
so how to deal with it?

249
00:14:30,994 --> 00:14:35,680
So we decided to split the
good part and the bad part.

250
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,280
And, actually, when we
implemented this exercise,

251
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,600
and we set up two different teams.

252
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,327
So one team was
focused on the bad bank.

253
00:14:44,327 --> 00:14:49,560
So the main purpose was the
recovery of the assets over there,

254
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,920
and the good banks team was
focused on the new model,

255
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,400
ecosystems, bundling
services, digitalization,

256
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,494
and then this perspective stuff, and
actually when we implemented it.

257
00:15:01,494 --> 00:15:07,327
We run this exercise through all our
clients, and then guess how many clients

258
00:15:07,327 --> 00:15:10,327
ended up in the good and the bad bank?

259
00:15:10,327 --> 00:15:12,494
Only two clients, existing clients,

260
00:15:12,494 --> 00:15:15,494
from corporate clients, they
ended up in the good bank.

261
00:15:15,494 --> 00:15:16,660
So can you imagine?

262
00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:19,160
And this used to be
the second biggest bank,

263
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,760
in terms of the corporate
financing, in Kazakhstan.

264
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,680
So most clients went to the bad bank.

265
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,400
So this is, I think, systematically,
was the most important decision.

266
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,160
Because it allowed us to
focus on different priorities.

267
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,327
What, I found out it's impossible to 

268
00:15:36,327 --> 00:15:38,660
simultaneously focus on these two,

269
00:15:38,660 --> 00:15:42,880
in a way, contradictory tasks,
at least, in terms of the one team.

270
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,120
So this split allowed us to create
the framework to proceed.

271
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,000
And then what is important,

272
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,660
we proposed non-restructuring
policy, which was very important.

273
00:15:55,660 --> 00:16:00,827
It meant that the board of directors
said no to any form of the restructuring,

274
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,720
other than the early repayment.

275
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,560
Given the Kazakhstani banking practices,

276
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,493
it was very new and innovative.

277
00:16:09,493 --> 00:16:14,826
Because it was a strong stand
against any type of corruption,

278
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,326
and ensure that everything is transparent.

279
00:16:17,326 --> 00:16:19,993
At first, most of the borrowers,

280
00:16:19,993 --> 00:16:24,800
they tried their luck with us,
they tried to approach us.

281
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,326
They offered some proposals
trying to bend this rule,

282
00:16:29,326 --> 00:16:31,826
which is pretty common in Kazakhstan,

283
00:16:31,826 --> 00:16:35,520
and restructuring may
have very tricky forms.

284
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,326
So you may just increase, for another
10 years, the tenure of the loan.

285
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,120
You may say, "Okay, given
the situation with the business,

286
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,960
let's lower the interest rate."

287
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,993
Or "Make payments by
the end of the maturity, 

288
00:16:49,993 --> 00:16:54,493
not monthly but let's
say once in six months."

289
00:16:54,493 --> 00:16:56,000
So it was very tricky.

290
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,993
It looked very reasonable on the
surface, and then you always can justify

291
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,159
why you are doing this one,
but you end up with corruption.

292
00:17:04,159 --> 00:17:07,659
So we said and we agreed
on the decision makers,

293
00:17:07,659 --> 00:17:11,080
on the management side, that no way,

294
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,826
because if you do one favor to
somebody, then you cannot control.

295
00:17:15,826 --> 00:17:20,326
And, then, as soon as you restructure
and somehow involved in this type of

296
00:17:20,326 --> 00:17:25,326
questionable type of the practices, then,
a borrower knows that he might not return

297
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,760
because he's, in a way, in
the agreement with the bank.

298
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,826
They have this kind of friendly
relationship, so it was very important.

299
00:17:33,826 --> 00:17:37,826
So, we said no to these practices,
and surprisingly it worked.

300
00:17:37,826 --> 00:17:42,280
After people realized that
we meant this business,

301
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,826
they miraculously found some
resources to repay the loans.

302
00:17:47,492 --> 00:17:50,640
Because we told them,
"Either stick to the agreements—"

303
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,826
We didn't sign this, we
were new people here,

304
00:17:52,826 --> 00:17:55,240
you signed it before with
the previous administration.

305
00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,492
So either stick to this one,
or repay and leave us,

306
00:18:00,492 --> 00:18:02,760
or if we found that you're doing wrong,

307
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,240
you're defaulting, we
bring you to the court,

308
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,280
and we'll proceed with the bankruptcy

309
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,600
or other type of legal cleansing.

310
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,992
So most of them preferred
to repay and leave us.

311
00:18:13,992 --> 00:18:15,360
They said, "This is something—"

312
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,159
And then my team, we ended up with
a lot of retention with some people,

313
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,492
which we perceived as friends.

314
00:18:21,492 --> 00:18:25,560
Politician, judges, members
of the parliament, so they said,

315
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:31,659
"Okay, you personally didn't like us,
this has nothing to do with personal,

316
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,200
this is just the corporate policy."

317
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,825
But somehow it worked,
and people respected it,

318
00:18:36,825 --> 00:18:39,640
and they understood that
this is the way to do business.

319
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:40,880
We did it transparently.

320
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,680
We announced it, and we stick to this one,

321
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:49,200
we meant it, and we never
allowed this type of restructuring.

322
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,720
We hired young professionals,
as I mentioned, was very important.

323
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,240
Because some of the traditional bankers,

324
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,159
even in the younger stages,
they opposed many changes,

325
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,992
particularly the artificial intelligence
initiatives, this type of the restructuring, 

326
00:19:03,992 --> 00:19:05,325
I explained to you.

327
00:19:05,325 --> 00:19:08,992
We hired some professionals, maybe
even not with the banking background,

328
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,492
but with the financial,

329
00:19:10,492 --> 00:19:15,840
particularly from telecom industry,
we found a lot of great people.

330
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,200
Then we also restructured the
whole organizational structure,

331
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,640
and this was a very big change.

332
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:28,000
Just to give you a flavor, we
had more than 150 branches,

333
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,080
across the country, we ended up with 119,

334
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,658
so almost 1/3 we managed to
optimize, it was a lot of savings,

335
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,825
Just bank by itself, employed about 5,000
people, we also managed to downsize.

336
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:47,658
We had 2.7 million individual
clients, customers, so you have to,

337
00:19:47,658 --> 00:19:51,158
when you restructure, when you set
up a new organizational structure,

338
00:19:51,158 --> 00:19:54,080
you should be very
careful not to lose them.

339
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,240
And, then, about 176,000
small and medium enterprises.

340
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,040
So it was kind of the big restructuring,

341
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,650
it's not the final list, but
just to tell you straight.

342
00:20:06,991 --> 00:20:08,825
– No, I appreciate that.

343
00:20:08,825 --> 00:20:11,320
You had to make some really tough calls,

344
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:12,840
especially, when it comes to downsizing

345
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,760
and restructuring, and it's difficult.

346
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,360
But based on the success of the bank,

347
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:19,680
they were the right decisions,

348
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,560
and it's not always easy
to make those decisions.

349
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,325
And maybe as we
wrap up the conversation,

350
00:20:24,325 --> 00:20:27,824
you can offer just some advice for
people who are saying, "You know what?

351
00:20:27,824 --> 00:20:29,320
I'm looking to get into leadership roles."

352
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,520
And sometimes leadership
roles can be very challenging,

353
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,840
especially, in business environments

354
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,658
that you're restructuring things,
you're trying to change up things.

355
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,040
And maybe based on your experiences,

356
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,991
you can give just some advice to
the folks who are listening to this

357
00:20:39,991 --> 00:20:42,040
and saying, "You know what?
If I find my little situation,

358
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,700
I can apply some of the
lessons that you learned."

359
00:20:45,491 --> 00:20:50,320
– This is a great question, and
then just to bring one example,

360
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,991
you have to be ready if
you start this journey.

361
00:20:53,991 --> 00:20:57,000
When things go fine, they're okay,

362
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,824
usually, this is because of your boss

363
00:20:59,824 --> 00:21:02,640
and the board of trustees
or the management board.

364
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:08,658
But when things go wrong, usually, it's on
you, so you have to be ready to accept it,

365
00:21:08,658 --> 00:21:11,491
somehow it's unfair but this is the reality.

366
00:21:11,491 --> 00:21:15,480
So this is the prerequisite for
somebody who would like to try.

367
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,360
In terms of the lessons for leadership
and successful implementation.

368
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,157
You need to have a vision, a strong vision.

369
00:21:24,157 --> 00:21:28,120
Based on the knowledge
of your business customers,

370
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,824
if you don't have this vision, don't start
your journey, this is very important,

371
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,720
it's not sufficient.

372
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,491
As soon as you have your vision,
you have to clearly communicate

373
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,320
and build a shared vision,
both with your employees,

374
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,991
with your team, top managers, and also
articulate this one to the customers,

375
00:21:49,991 --> 00:21:51,991
it's very important.

376
00:21:51,991 --> 00:21:55,324
It's in a way like the social contract,

377
00:21:55,324 --> 00:21:59,657
in the words of the French
philosopher, Rousseau,

378
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,840
around this one you can build something.

379
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,824
But if there is no vision, if it's
not shared with your team,

380
00:22:06,824 --> 00:22:09,490
you're kind of doomed to fail.

381
00:22:10,157 --> 00:22:14,324
So to create this vision, actually,
we created, setup Jusan club,

382
00:22:14,324 --> 00:22:17,080
and then the Jusan club
was very instrumental.

383
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,324
It was the monthly
gathering of executives.

384
00:22:20,324 --> 00:22:25,990
So we could informally discuss, share our
success stories, learn from each other,

385
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:28,324
and in this way you create this oneness

386
00:22:28,324 --> 00:22:31,657
It's not like words people read, but
people are usually very skeptical.

387
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,200
You need some examples,

388
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,840
you need some informal
type of the communication,

389
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,680
which make them believe
into what you are saying.

390
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,160
And then when peers share, this
is very important, both mistakes

391
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,240
and the successful stories.

392
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,657
Investing in the people, very important,

393
00:22:49,657 --> 00:22:52,323
particularly now our case
because it was, in a way,  

394
00:22:52,323 --> 00:22:58,157
a completely new business model based
on the new technologies, digitalization,

395
00:22:58,157 --> 00:23:00,800
so we introduced the chief learning officer.

396
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,823
She got a PhD in education
from Cambridge University.

397
00:23:04,823 --> 00:23:09,490
So she was very successful,
in terms of the assessing needs

398
00:23:09,490 --> 00:23:13,360
and training the whole staff,
based on the different levels.

399
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:20,157
And we even set up two educational
centers to train our own IT personnel.

400
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,490
In IT mostly you need some writers
of the Python or some coders,

401
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:28,800
and you don't need most
of them to be a bachelor

402
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,480
or master degrees from universities.

403
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,990
Of course, we would tap
potential of our universities, also,

404
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,156
we'd take the first in the line, in terms
of our computing schools graduates

405
00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:43,490
so we hired most of them,
particularly for the IT department.

406
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:49,156
But in the lower value-added activities,
you usually don't need this qualification.

407
00:23:49,156 --> 00:23:51,800
So you need somebody,
even after high school,

408
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,160
with good skills in the mathematics.

409
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,156
So you just train them and then
usually three, six months is sufficient,

410
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,000
and it's very difficult to find
them in the market, actually.

411
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,920
So we trained our IT
personnel by ourselves.

412
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,320
So learning, investing, in
the people is very important.

413
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,823
Clear KPIs, very important.

414
00:24:10,823 --> 00:24:14,520
Try to stay away from the shadow zones.

415
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,360
Try to articulate them
as clear as possible,

416
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,440
leave no room for misinterpretation.

417
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,960
Address all this gray area
because this is your contract

418
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,600
and this is your expectation.

419
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,823
So people must be very clear
in terms of the expectation,

420
00:24:28,823 --> 00:24:30,800
in terms of their duties.

421
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:36,989
Embrace failures, it's inevitable, in such
type of the new disruptive models.

422
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Nobody did it before,
so you experiment usually.

423
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,323
So don't be very tough on the people,

424
00:24:43,323 --> 00:24:45,323
they're learning because
you are learning, too.

425
00:24:45,323 --> 00:24:49,720
So learn from their failures
and their mistakes, don't punish.

426
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,822
Talent focus, I used to have
a rule which I called 90 days,

427
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,822
usually three months
is sufficient to understand.

428
00:24:56,822 --> 00:25:00,489
Because some resumes are, sometimes,
reading very difficult to understand,

429
00:25:00,489 --> 00:25:05,156
whether it's artificial intelligence
prepared it, or people, somehow,

430
00:25:05,156 --> 00:25:09,322
in the fancy way, prepared it, but
unless you really try them in the field.

431
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,680
So usually 90 days is sufficient

432
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,600
to understand whether
a person can deliver.

433
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,840
Usually if you have some doubts,

434
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:22,989
I provide another 30 days, but
by six months it will be sufficient.

435
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,822
And then you have a clear understanding,
whether you're okay with the guy or not.

436
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,156
Or maybe you did a wrong decision 

437
00:25:30,156 --> 00:25:35,560
in terms of the qualification, so
maybe just to send to other division.

438
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,322
But if not, if it doesn't work,

439
00:25:37,322 --> 00:25:40,960
allow this person to leave
or do something else.

440
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,489
Motivation is very important.

441
00:25:43,489 --> 00:25:48,400
Focus is people can perform
when they are on the stage.

442
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,822
It requires a lot of attention
which you cannot do all the time.

443
00:25:52,822 --> 00:25:54,920
So monetary, non-monetary,

444
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,880
building the system of incentives,

445
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,822
so that is part of the culture,

446
00:25:58,822 --> 00:26:01,120
new business culture, very important.

447
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:02,960
So they understand right signals,

448
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,655
they know how to proceed.

449
00:26:04,655 --> 00:26:06,822
Monetary incentives, also very important,

450
00:26:06,822 --> 00:26:10,655
and then hard work, there is no
substitute for the hard work.

451
00:26:10,655 --> 00:26:12,320
There is no silver bullet.

452
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,155
As long as you understand your business,

453
00:26:14,155 --> 00:26:17,988
you have a great team, then
the hard work is indispensable.

454
00:26:17,988 --> 00:26:20,822
So this is, in a nutshell, the lessons,

455
00:26:20,822 --> 00:26:23,000
in terms of the leadership,

456
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,800
I learned and wanted to share
based on the Rousseau story,

457
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,155
and I think people can
learn something from this.

458
00:26:29,488 --> 00:26:32,322
– I agree, and Yerbol, I just
want to really thank you

459
00:26:32,322 --> 00:26:34,640
for sharing your story, on the podcast.

460
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,480
I know that the audience
can learn so much,

461
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,322
and thank you so much for coming on.

462
00:26:38,988 --> 00:26:39,720
– Thank you, Adam.

463
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,155
Thank you for this opportunity

464
00:26:41,155 --> 00:26:44,988
to share my experience,
and thank you for having me.

465
00:26:44,988 --> 00:26:47,155
< Outro >

466
00:26:47,155 --> 00:26:48,822
– This has been Count Me In,

467
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,988
IMA's podcast, providing you with the
latest perspectives of thought leaders,

468
00:26:52,988 --> 00:26:54,880
from the accounting
and finance profession.

469
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,488
If you like what you heard,
and you'd like to be counted in

470
00:26:57,488 --> 00:26:59,960
for more relevant accounting
and finance education,

471
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:06,988
visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.