1 00:00:01,260 --> 00:00:04,292 Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious. 2 00:00:04,292 --> 00:00:06,073 I am Hamish, your host. 3 00:00:06,173 --> 00:00:10,496 This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life. 4 00:00:10,496 --> 00:00:19,833 Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is 5 00:00:19,833 --> 00:00:22,024 not aligned to values and purpose. 6 00:00:22,024 --> 00:00:23,025 You are not alone. 7 00:00:23,025 --> 00:00:25,246 You can get through this, promise you. 8 00:00:25,246 --> 00:00:27,868 Life is far more beautiful on the other side. 9 00:00:29,209 --> 00:00:29,789 Hi everybody. 10 00:00:29,789 --> 00:00:31,551 Today we are talking with Kate. 11 00:00:31,551 --> 00:00:37,975 Kate and I first met about a year ago on a shamanic practitioners course in the middle of Ireland. 12 00:00:38,015 --> 00:00:43,279 It was the most incredible experience and yeah, we got to know each other. 13 00:00:43,279 --> 00:00:54,156 We got chatting and over the four months that we were doing that, we had an incredible time learning about new ways of living and being and tapping into what was really 14 00:00:54,156 --> 00:00:54,926 important to us. 15 00:00:54,926 --> 00:00:57,952 So Kate, thank you so much for being here today. 16 00:00:57,952 --> 00:00:59,199 Thanks for having 17 00:00:59,491 --> 00:01:04,343 And can you tell me a little bit about your journey that got you to where you are now? 18 00:01:05,053 --> 00:01:23,613 So yeah I was very pleased to meet you Hamish on the shamanic course because that was a real turning point in my life and it was the point where I went from having worked 19 00:01:23,613 --> 00:01:27,973 psychically for nearly 30 years 20 00:01:28,020 --> 00:01:46,114 And so really the whole awakening and the whole point of me talking today is just coming to that point of being proud of my sensitivity, proud of my intuitive ability, delight in 21 00:01:46,114 --> 00:01:48,335 finding the shamanic world. 22 00:01:48,475 --> 00:01:58,165 And kind of it's my spiritual coming out on this podcast, you know, and it's the first time that I would have talked. 23 00:01:58,165 --> 00:02:01,463 publicly about all the things that I've experienced in my 24 00:02:01,863 --> 00:02:20,382 I grew up seeing spirits travelling through my dreams, remembering past lives, all kinds of crazy stuff and my mum's dad, my grandfather, he was schizophrenic, he died before I 25 00:02:20,382 --> 00:02:22,153 was born and I didn't know him. 26 00:02:22,295 --> 00:02:32,728 but my mum would have heard all the crazy stuff that came out of my mouth and thought, my god, she's just like her granddad. 27 00:02:32,728 --> 00:02:40,569 So from an early age, I really had a fear that I was just bananas. 28 00:02:41,130 --> 00:02:50,992 so I learnt just to keep everything quiet, all the stuff about spirits and past lives and... 29 00:02:51,504 --> 00:02:53,706 travelling through space and dreams. 30 00:02:53,706 --> 00:02:58,207 I've kept all my sensitive 31 00:03:02,389 --> 00:03:09,535 as quiet as possible, all my psychic stuff is quiet as possible and I've been ashamed of it most of my life. 32 00:03:10,496 --> 00:03:25,408 I'm a really curious person, I love science, really into science and all the people that I really respect in the scientific world, you know, wouldn't respect anything about my life 33 00:03:25,408 --> 00:03:30,802 now and it's really upsetting and has been really upsetting. 34 00:03:32,327 --> 00:03:36,147 I've worked with spirits since I was 19. 35 00:03:36,727 --> 00:03:45,854 I was really lucky to meet a doctor, she was a medical doctor and she had given up 36 00:03:45,854 --> 00:04:04,203 her medical practice because she observed that some people got better even if their diagnosis was awful and then other people that weren't so ill went rapidly downhill and 37 00:04:06,245 --> 00:04:10,917 got very bad and died and she was really curious to how that happened. 38 00:04:10,917 --> 00:04:11,567 So 39 00:04:14,589 --> 00:04:36,749 went completely left of centre and did an aura diagnosis, which is work healing spirits of the dead, to feel through the layers of your aura to see what the core issues were of that 40 00:04:36,749 --> 00:04:37,729 illness. 41 00:04:37,729 --> 00:04:40,989 And so from the age of 19, I learnt from her. 42 00:04:40,989 --> 00:04:44,409 So from 19, that's what I've done. 43 00:04:44,809 --> 00:05:01,453 I feel through the layers of people's auras, go right deep into people's true core natures and work with spirits of the dead to help them cross over. 44 00:05:03,954 --> 00:05:13,262 Now, I'm a really curious person, I love learning, I love science, so that idea of them really being spirits, it just didn't. 45 00:05:13,262 --> 00:05:17,643 wash of me at all and it was really helpful. 46 00:05:17,643 --> 00:05:24,975 really liked it but I just couldn't accept the fact that they were spirits. 47 00:05:25,115 --> 00:05:30,896 Finding shamanism and you know that the course with Martin Duffy was really amazing. 48 00:05:32,297 --> 00:05:42,339 It really helped me land in the life of a shamanic way. 49 00:05:43,107 --> 00:05:48,670 which is a totally decolonised way of thinking. 50 00:05:48,670 --> 00:05:53,492 It is not the way of thinking in a Western mind. 51 00:05:54,573 --> 00:06:07,800 It's an animistic, so the philosophy of animism where everything is alive, every rock, every stone, every, the stars, the sun, the... 52 00:06:10,422 --> 00:06:12,643 everything, everything, everything is... 53 00:06:12,737 --> 00:06:35,145 alive and has a spirit and now living in that world from that way has changed everything for me and so from there I decided to sell my business, start a new life and just 54 00:06:35,145 --> 00:06:41,329 completely devote myself to the shamanic healing and me doing my 55 00:06:42,255 --> 00:06:42,921 readings. 56 00:06:42,921 --> 00:06:48,084 So it was that recent. 57 00:06:48,084 --> 00:07:00,171 Talk to me about this concept of guiding people over, so people who've died and moving on, because I know that is an integral part of shamanism, 58 00:07:00,171 --> 00:07:19,277 Yeah so it wouldn't be for somebody that is in the process of dying to leave them be for a while because we are all met by a completely loving force. 59 00:07:19,597 --> 00:07:23,978 Now if we live our lives 60 00:07:24,686 --> 00:07:30,127 mostly not aware of that and feeling very alone and isolated as a lot of people do. 61 00:07:30,547 --> 00:07:53,053 Sometimes when you die it's really hard, sometimes people don't even know they're dead, especially if it's a shock or in a tragic way, and two, if you don't have that connection 62 00:07:54,199 --> 00:08:07,412 spirit you can just stay in the mode that you were in life so if you were you know constantly busy and you're completely disconnected you can still remain like that after 63 00:08:07,412 --> 00:08:22,247 you're dying so when so when i'm working with the spirits of the dead that doesn't have to be any family member or a person in transition it's it's never like that it's always 64 00:08:22,247 --> 00:08:30,411 either people having spirits attached to them or spirits attached to a place. 65 00:08:30,411 --> 00:08:31,822 you know, we're 66 00:08:37,643 --> 00:08:45,436 So our natural state of being is to be radiant. 67 00:08:46,876 --> 00:08:51,838 So our life force comes up, flows through us, flows out. 68 00:08:51,838 --> 00:08:53,599 That's our natural state. 69 00:08:54,279 --> 00:09:07,594 Most of us forget that because we're just in life mode and we have our defensive behaviour patterns and we just go along life on whichever automatic pilot we've got going 70 00:09:08,704 --> 00:09:25,491 So then parts of our energy is out and full, but a lot of our energy through a lot of the day is depressed in certain areas or we have holes or we have gaps where we're not very 71 00:09:25,491 --> 00:09:29,532 robust and we're not very free flowing. 72 00:09:29,612 --> 00:09:32,663 And so it just creates vacuum space. 73 00:09:32,663 --> 00:09:34,694 So any... 74 00:09:37,067 --> 00:09:44,109 that's around and there's lots of spirits that are around and the lust don't know that there's help. 75 00:09:44,270 --> 00:09:51,192 A lot of us in life don't know that there's help, we don't know that we're supported and we're totally supported all the time. 76 00:09:52,833 --> 00:09:55,114 But we don't feel, we don't feel it. 77 00:09:56,494 --> 00:09:59,595 So we can get spirits attached to us and attached to the land. 78 00:09:59,595 --> 00:10:05,517 So what I would do is if you had a spirit attached to you 79 00:10:07,027 --> 00:10:22,878 we would just, I can either do it remotely or all I would do is just hold your hand and I'd wait for my feeling to change into another feeling and then I would talk as the spirit 80 00:10:23,118 --> 00:10:32,424 and then I would talk through one, letting the person know that they've died. 81 00:10:32,565 --> 00:10:34,486 That's always a good starting point. 82 00:10:35,730 --> 00:10:36,981 A lot of them don't know. 83 00:10:36,981 --> 00:10:43,702 And you make them aware. 84 00:10:43,702 --> 00:10:46,573 It's the same as how I would work with a living person. 85 00:10:46,793 --> 00:10:52,675 You feel through their feelings until you get to their true core nature. 86 00:10:53,435 --> 00:10:58,016 And from our true core natures we know that we are connected. 87 00:10:58,016 --> 00:11:04,756 We have access to spirit, we have access to support and then there can be a good transition. 88 00:11:04,756 --> 00:11:06,368 So it's a healing. 89 00:11:06,730 --> 00:11:10,535 It's a healing, but the clients are dead and they don't pay very well. 90 00:11:11,268 --> 00:11:12,448 Okay. 91 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:24,680 So your belief structure is we are spiritual, So what are your, what's your comprehension around who we are as humans or what we are as humans? 92 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:26,280 Because we're not just a sack of meat. 93 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:37,126 No we're not and this is the whole knub of the matter and the whole knub of my awakening is that we're not just a meat suit. 94 00:11:38,767 --> 00:11:46,691 So Buddhists would say that suffering is a belief in separation and 95 00:11:47,736 --> 00:11:59,144 you just believe in the meat suit, which it's very easy to do and even so even from me being able to see spirits, being able to travel distances from when I was a very small 96 00:11:59,144 --> 00:12:12,133 child and having experiences that are exactly the same as ancient shamans that have been recorded for centuries of millennia. 97 00:12:13,394 --> 00:12:15,495 There's really, there's 98 00:12:16,164 --> 00:12:25,550 the same experiences go round and around again you see it in different cultures, different histories, different parts of the world. 99 00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:31,914 It's just amazing there's so many similar journeys and similar experiences. 100 00:12:31,914 --> 00:12:38,709 So from a child without being exposed to any of that and you know there'll be a lot of people listening that would have had those experiences too. 101 00:12:38,709 --> 00:12:42,801 You're not alone, find shamanism. 102 00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:44,262 Go check it out. 103 00:12:47,821 --> 00:13:02,643 So if even having all those experiences and being aware of spirit, still I couldn't believe, still I couldn't accept any of the idea of talking to spirits. 104 00:13:02,643 --> 00:13:08,667 just, know, Eastern West mind just didn't meet anywhere. 105 00:13:09,608 --> 00:13:17,493 But now having the experience, I can really truly understand 106 00:13:17,986 --> 00:13:30,401 the Buddhists are talking about when they say that suffering is a belief in separation because if we are just the meat suit and it is just you as a meat suit with a horrible 107 00:13:30,401 --> 00:13:44,357 environment then it's really easy to have defensive behaviour patterns to have to put on all this armour to 108 00:13:45,867 --> 00:13:49,159 you know, go for the material all the time. 109 00:13:50,480 --> 00:14:09,453 But if we're not just a meat suit, if we are connected into this spirit world, all of a sudden you feel the people around you, you feel your ancestors, you feel the love, you 110 00:14:09,453 --> 00:14:14,316 feel the oneness, and it's not just you as a meat suit and the world, 111 00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:20,013 you as a flow of everything. 112 00:14:20,013 --> 00:14:25,918 You are totally part of the infinity of existence. 113 00:14:25,918 --> 00:14:27,559 You you're vast. 114 00:14:28,460 --> 00:14:43,092 And through the shamanic journeys I just kept getting a sense of that oneness, that belonging, being part of a family because being part of a family 115 00:14:43,424 --> 00:14:47,406 The real world is quite difficult, most people's families are quite difficult. 116 00:14:47,586 --> 00:14:50,488 It's a challenge and a half. 117 00:14:50,488 --> 00:15:11,638 to find that working ancestrally, which is also part of Shamanism, that I'm entirely surrounded by a loving family that goes back to the beginning, to pre -human. 118 00:15:13,137 --> 00:15:17,540 and that's some feeling of belonging. 119 00:15:17,540 --> 00:15:22,553 Now I'm curious, how did you manage to make sense? 120 00:15:22,553 --> 00:15:32,609 Because there was a big disconnect, as you said, there was this spiritual aspect which you just couldn't bring together and you put so much shame into it. 121 00:15:32,609 --> 00:15:36,418 How did you manage to eradicate that shame? 122 00:15:36,418 --> 00:15:55,496 The answer to question is a lot of damn fucking hard work and finding very safe places repeatedly because you can't do any healing work without finding safe spaces and like you 123 00:15:55,496 --> 00:16:04,184 said you found that your superpower was creating safe spaces and that is such a huge gift and a huge contribution to the world. 124 00:16:04,184 --> 00:16:10,008 because you can't, like finding a safe space, that is job number one. 125 00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:19,756 Because you can talk to family, can talk to friends, but they can't really hold a true safe space. 126 00:16:19,997 --> 00:16:27,623 You really need professionals that are, that it is their gift to hold safe spaces. 127 00:16:27,623 --> 00:16:32,626 Because you do need, you need a safe space, need a cushion of love around. 128 00:16:32,626 --> 00:16:33,847 From there, 129 00:16:33,973 --> 00:16:40,867 you can go in and you can look at shame but you can only look at shame if you're held. 130 00:16:41,288 --> 00:16:47,292 So it's finding a wonderfully held safe space. 131 00:16:47,472 --> 00:17:01,542 So I've done lots of different work in lots of different aspects and I've been very lucky to work with people that are really good at holding safe spaces and then relentlessly 132 00:17:01,602 --> 00:17:03,143 going in and going 133 00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:08,632 and the more, as you know, the more you can unearth shame. 134 00:17:09,373 --> 00:17:14,215 Shame is hidden, shame survives, shame is out in the open. 135 00:17:14,396 --> 00:17:27,203 It doesn't exist anymore because once it's unearthed and you're feeling the shame but you're also feeling loved and held, shame disappears and you just have to do that again 136 00:17:27,203 --> 00:17:30,444 and again and again and again and again. 137 00:17:30,804 --> 00:17:32,185 So yeah, it's a 138 00:17:32,447 --> 00:17:41,881 It's a long journey, but feeling loved and held, not judged, that's the work. 139 00:17:41,881 --> 00:17:42,483 and nature, 140 00:17:42,483 --> 00:17:46,646 nature has that safe space intrinsically in it. 141 00:17:46,887 --> 00:18:05,151 So again it just comes back to the same thing with the animistic way of living because if you're in nature, you're respecting nature, you're feeling part of nature, you've got the 142 00:18:05,151 --> 00:18:10,265 flow going out of you, flowing, come back in, that's the safe space. 143 00:18:10,406 --> 00:18:12,267 But also it's all 144 00:18:12,639 --> 00:18:25,782 relationships so you have a relationship with the element of earth, have a relationship with the element of fire, with air, you know have a relationship now with the directions 145 00:18:25,802 --> 00:18:42,106 you know east now feels like you know each each direction feels like a friend so you know east is has is new beginnings is fresh you know has the element wind 146 00:18:43,091 --> 00:18:47,733 It's the friend that you'd ask for greater perspective. 147 00:18:48,975 --> 00:18:52,387 It brings in a freshness, brings a newness. 148 00:18:52,387 --> 00:18:57,210 It's like one of those friends that would open all the doors and windows in your house and goes, right, come on then, let's go. 149 00:18:57,210 --> 00:19:00,222 I love South. 150 00:19:00,222 --> 00:19:02,043 South is a great friend. 151 00:19:02,043 --> 00:19:05,746 South is a friend I'd go to element of fire. 152 00:19:07,527 --> 00:19:12,059 It could be that warm, gentle push to remind you of your passions. 153 00:19:12,059 --> 00:19:24,772 or it can be a total burning transformation where all the old shit just gets burnt up and it can be intense but you know that it's... 154 00:19:25,793 --> 00:19:28,974 you're just getting rid of all the crap. 155 00:19:29,454 --> 00:19:31,875 West I work with a lot. 156 00:19:31,875 --> 00:19:33,515 West is like... 157 00:19:33,535 --> 00:19:36,216 I've been in love with West. 158 00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:39,977 It's endings, it's healing, 159 00:19:40,415 --> 00:19:45,588 death but the beautiful aspect of death where you can just let things go. 160 00:19:46,589 --> 00:19:58,328 It's the element of water where all connected, it's that purity, that cleansing, it's that sparkly pure. 161 00:19:58,468 --> 00:20:04,152 And then north, God love north, that solid rock, that earth 162 00:20:06,213 --> 00:20:15,577 or the practical, I love earthy practical things and so that's north, so north would have your back. 163 00:20:16,817 --> 00:20:28,082 And then so that's the way my life goes now, having the connection with the ancestors, having the connection with the elements, with the directions, with nature. 164 00:20:28,502 --> 00:20:35,758 So then my life now feels totally held and there's always 165 00:20:35,758 --> 00:20:38,206 sense of oneness and working with. 166 00:20:39,013 --> 00:20:40,147 So that's them. 167 00:20:40,147 --> 00:20:49,747 It's a total 180 on the more scientific rational way that I used to think. 168 00:20:51,786 --> 00:20:54,481 Nothing like having your life turned around is there? 169 00:20:54,481 --> 00:21:03,966 I was really nothing like like shake and then yeah, I Love that and I I love how you describe the the four directions 170 00:21:03,966 --> 00:21:10,662 absolutely agree that groundedness, that sense of purpose and nothing is going to stop you when you're looking north. 171 00:21:10,662 --> 00:21:13,724 That just resilience and all the other ones. 172 00:21:13,724 --> 00:21:15,426 think it's, yeah, I really like that. 173 00:21:15,426 --> 00:21:21,210 think you've allowed me to look at it slightly differently and I think that's fabulous. 174 00:21:23,593 --> 00:21:27,115 Let's wind back probably quite a lot 175 00:21:29,228 --> 00:21:44,821 How has going through that transition, going through being highly attuned and seeing spirits and all this kind of stuff, which obviously was distressing and peculiar and all 176 00:21:44,821 --> 00:21:47,093 that, how did that affect relationships? 177 00:21:47,093 --> 00:21:50,586 How did people, did you tell people about things like that? 178 00:21:50,586 --> 00:21:53,249 Was it, know, you'd confined with people? 179 00:21:53,249 --> 00:21:57,362 What was people's senses around that when you dared to share? 180 00:21:57,362 --> 00:22:15,167 Yeah I had a split life really so I had the life where I had all the friends that you know like so you go to a shamanic course and you have friends or you meet people there and it's 181 00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:18,619 like yeah you see spirits, we all see spirits. 182 00:22:20,429 --> 00:22:25,109 and know, ugh, boring, you and everyone else. 183 00:22:25,229 --> 00:22:31,909 And so there was one group of people where spirits were just so normal, it was really boring. 184 00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:34,429 And then that would be a small group of people. 185 00:22:34,429 --> 00:22:44,049 And then there'd be the rest of everybody else in the whole world who I just wouldn't mention it to whatsoever. 186 00:22:44,049 --> 00:22:49,189 So I've lived in a small town now in Ireland for 21 years. 187 00:22:49,196 --> 00:22:59,296 and there's people that I've done readings for, you know, 20 years ago and then there's people I've known for 20 years that wouldn't have a clue of the work that I do because I 188 00:22:59,296 --> 00:23:03,096 would never mention it, I would largely not mention it. 189 00:23:04,096 --> 00:23:17,136 Yeah, so, you know, when I was little and I was seeing all the fairies and spirits and travelling through my dreams and my mum was just getting concerned and thinking that I was 190 00:23:17,136 --> 00:23:19,356 like her dad who was schizophrenic. 191 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:37,752 and I didn't end too well for him so I always had a belief that I was totally crackers and I was really worried, was afraid my whole life of just going that bit too far and not ever 192 00:23:37,752 --> 00:23:42,515 being able to come back and get a grasp on reality. 193 00:23:42,736 --> 00:23:49,470 So still my family don't really know, they largely don't know what I... 194 00:23:49,605 --> 00:23:52,676 do and it's becoming a bigger bigger part of my life. 195 00:23:54,196 --> 00:24:11,080 So yeah, so relationships would have definitely had a separation and just it would be that secret part of me and then the part that would get everything done, be practical, you know 196 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,981 run the show and yeah nobody would know. 197 00:24:14,981 --> 00:24:16,661 But it leaves... 198 00:24:18,396 --> 00:24:32,846 if you live like that it makes you, it leaves you feeling very lonely and isolated so I would always have felt very alone and then of course if nobody can see you nobody can love 199 00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:47,245 you so you, I've spent most of my life feeling ashamed of the way I think the way I behave in the world 200 00:24:48,276 --> 00:24:56,390 feel very alone, know, yeah, it's a lonely, shameful existence largely, 201 00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:58,070 I think it's remarkable. 202 00:24:59,712 --> 00:25:02,273 It shows that resilience of humans as well, doesn't it? 203 00:25:02,273 --> 00:25:05,315 That we can, we can wear that mask of shame. 204 00:25:05,336 --> 00:25:11,760 And yet when we actually decide it's enough, we can just take it off and then become true to ourselves. 205 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,396 And it's never too late to do that. 206 00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:15,098 Never too late, never. 207 00:25:15,098 --> 00:25:26,587 Because shame, most people have it and it really is, I think, the deepest and hardest to get to. 208 00:25:27,088 --> 00:25:31,352 Because you hide it, you can become identified with it. 209 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:40,306 so much and it's hard to separate yourself from that feeling of shame from who you are. 210 00:25:40,306 --> 00:25:43,708 It gets really ingrained as part of your personality. 211 00:25:45,090 --> 00:25:53,248 it's remarkable work when you feel it lifting. 212 00:25:53,248 --> 00:25:57,131 And then it opens up the space for all the love. 213 00:25:57,569 --> 00:25:57,879 Doesn't it? 214 00:25:57,879 --> 00:26:00,971 Yeah, absolutely. 215 00:26:01,471 --> 00:26:07,517 And it's, you know, I've not seen you since September, October, September when we finished the course. 216 00:26:08,258 --> 00:26:15,604 But I mean, everything about your demeanor is so much more grounded, so much more peaceful, so much stronger. 217 00:26:16,285 --> 00:26:21,829 And it's, you know, obviously, it's a joy to see a friend change so much. 218 00:26:21,829 --> 00:26:23,491 But it's also peaceful, isn't it? 219 00:26:23,491 --> 00:26:26,453 You know, you've you've able to take that mask off and go. 220 00:26:26,593 --> 00:26:27,244 This is me. 221 00:26:27,244 --> 00:26:29,976 And yeah, there is, you do lose people. 222 00:26:29,976 --> 00:26:34,560 When I left Cape Town after the drinking, I lost all sorts of people. 223 00:26:35,301 --> 00:26:36,592 As you said, it makes space for love. 224 00:26:36,592 --> 00:26:39,625 It makes space for new people, new opportunities. 225 00:26:41,327 --> 00:26:44,640 And who knows what's gonna happen next? 226 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:51,704 It's also uncertain, but it's a kind of excited and not a scary excitement, isn't it? 227 00:26:51,704 --> 00:27:07,985 absolutely yeah because the way I would have you know most of my relationships before were you know I'm a very I'm a very loving person but for me love translated into doing. 228 00:27:07,985 --> 00:27:19,236 I had to do, do, cater to everybody, make sure you know that everybody felt loved, you had to anticipate everybody's desire before they even knew that they they had 229 00:27:19,236 --> 00:27:21,048 and always concerned with other people. 230 00:27:21,048 --> 00:27:22,959 That's so exhausting, my god. 231 00:27:22,959 --> 00:27:26,591 That's just energy out the whole time. 232 00:27:29,254 --> 00:27:47,329 So I just sold my business, I had a busy shop and I looked after everybody in the shop and it was just busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, doing, yeah, you lead to burnout and codependent 233 00:27:47,329 --> 00:27:49,310 relationships that just go. 234 00:27:49,602 --> 00:28:10,199 one way and since you know leaving the shop I feel like I've taken off a weight a lead jacket and like I said with the shame gone feeling the love come in I don't feel like I 235 00:28:10,199 --> 00:28:19,206 have to do for other people anymore I feel that I can be loved I can let that love flow out 236 00:28:20,204 --> 00:28:33,871 and hopefully it's just nice to be around a person that feels warm and loved and relaxed and hopefully that comes out to other people you know then other people can feel in a safe 237 00:28:33,871 --> 00:28:36,314 space around me. 238 00:28:37,198 --> 00:28:37,508 Yep. 239 00:28:37,508 --> 00:28:39,129 I think you've I love that. 240 00:28:39,129 --> 00:28:41,239 I think you've you've nailed that on the head. 241 00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:45,661 Which is you've actually done that really nicely because you've also started again. 242 00:28:47,762 --> 00:28:49,003 That makes complete sense. 243 00:28:49,003 --> 00:28:54,375 And I love the way that you've you've realized that you were that codependent. 244 00:28:54,375 --> 00:28:56,726 You were putting everyone else needs first. 245 00:28:56,726 --> 00:29:03,935 You mentioned at the beginning of the chat where you were frightened about being 246 00:29:03,935 --> 00:29:05,746 you know, this attachment to spirituality. 247 00:29:05,746 --> 00:29:11,668 you put that mask on to become what other people you thought other people were. 248 00:29:12,069 --> 00:29:15,360 Explain codependency because obviously that is a huge part of it. 249 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:16,521 Not everyone understands it. 250 00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:21,493 I mean, I had no idea what it was until I was diagnosed and had to make sense of it in rehab. 251 00:29:21,493 --> 00:29:30,667 But explain to me what your thought process as a child to be liked then became that codependency. 252 00:29:31,466 --> 00:29:53,260 Yeah well I mean codependency can often go along with addiction or addictive addictive parents so you know I would have had that experience growing up but for me codependency 253 00:29:55,105 --> 00:30:01,714 The way it presents in me is that the belief is I am not loved as I am. 254 00:30:01,714 --> 00:30:11,776 I am only loved if I am useful or I am only loved if I am loving another person. 255 00:30:12,669 --> 00:30:23,397 not to have intrinsic worth, but to only have worth if you're doing what the other person wants of you. 256 00:30:23,998 --> 00:30:35,286 then, you know, and like I said, I'm a very loving person and if that gets translated into a codependent way, you've kind of gone off the rails in the whole wrong direction. 257 00:30:35,286 --> 00:30:39,029 So I spent a lot of my life thinking that 258 00:30:39,195 --> 00:30:50,388 that it's good not to have any boundaries, that it's good not to reference what I want, that it's good to always feel out and see what the other person wants first. 259 00:30:50,708 --> 00:30:57,410 And so I would have been very close to my mom, very close to my dad, but I would have known them so well. 260 00:30:57,410 --> 00:31:06,753 I would have anticipated all my mom's needs and just done whatever she wanted, then anticipated my dad's needs, just done exactly what he wanted, 261 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:25,289 then there's a fear that if you're not anticipating everybody's needs and then you're not being loving, you're not worth anything, you're a terrible person, back to the shame. 262 00:31:25,289 --> 00:31:35,514 So any thought of being myself or referencing inwards automatically led to shame. 263 00:31:37,685 --> 00:31:53,539 and the loving of the other person seemed nice, but it comes with anxiety and fear that you have to love, have to be, that's the only way you're gonna be wanted. 264 00:31:53,539 --> 00:32:04,043 So really what you're emitting in that instance is that we're not loved, we're not loved, panic, panic, find how you can be loved. 265 00:32:04,043 --> 00:32:04,823 And 266 00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:12,904 even though you're doing a loving act, really what you're doing is just filling the world out with more panic and more panic panic panic panic. 267 00:32:13,685 --> 00:32:34,159 So now, like I said, the difference with then feeling connected to spirit is that I always feel loved, always feel connected and therefore love and connection comes 268 00:32:34,721 --> 00:32:39,042 Emitting love, emitting safety, it's the complete opposite. 269 00:32:39,585 --> 00:32:41,408 I wish I'd have gotten that sooner. 270 00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:46,032 it just takes a minor life crisis or two, doesn't it? 271 00:32:46,032 --> 00:32:47,853 First of all, you realize these things. 272 00:32:49,475 --> 00:32:50,366 I love that. 273 00:32:50,366 --> 00:32:57,502 I experienced it slightly differently and like you, I've been making sense of it. 274 00:32:57,702 --> 00:33:02,766 For me, very much it was that I need to be what other people want me to be, so I'm liked. 275 00:33:04,408 --> 00:33:05,999 That's the attachment side of it. 276 00:33:05,999 --> 00:33:09,212 I was attached myself to them, whereas from the other side 277 00:33:09,316 --> 00:33:15,540 I can still be loving and kind and supportive and this, that and the other, but I'm doing that from authenticity, from you. 278 00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:17,321 I'm doing it from inside. 279 00:33:18,182 --> 00:33:21,434 Because for a while as I made sense of it, I was a bit of a shit. 280 00:33:21,434 --> 00:33:27,359 I wasn't nice because I thought I used to be loving and kind and that was co -dependent. 281 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:29,410 So I'm not going to be loving and kind. 282 00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:34,053 And I wasn't, and it was horrible because I wasn't being true to myself and I was being unkind. 283 00:33:34,053 --> 00:33:38,168 But when I sort of like you, I've did that work and realized 284 00:33:38,168 --> 00:33:48,734 I can still be loving and kind and all those things which I am, but I just do it from authenticity rather than from need or from fear or looking for love from other people, 285 00:33:48,734 --> 00:33:52,416 from spirit, from source, from, and what a difference. 286 00:33:52,416 --> 00:33:57,459 I can still be nice, but I'm not requiring anything from anybody else. 287 00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,742 And there's a boundary. 288 00:33:59,742 --> 00:34:06,586 So it is that thing of really, even if it's a nice action, what is the feeling that's coming off? 289 00:34:06,586 --> 00:34:11,148 And if it's fear, if it's fear, can feel it, you know, it goes like that. 290 00:34:12,489 --> 00:34:21,894 And everybody can pick it up, you know, I mean, everybody is psychic, everybody is intuitive, everybody can feel all these things. 291 00:34:21,914 --> 00:34:25,076 And it's just much better if 292 00:34:25,670 --> 00:34:34,463 totally clear and aware aware of that you know we can always feel it you know it doesn't feel it doesn't feel comfortable when you know you can feel somebody's you know panic or 293 00:34:34,463 --> 00:34:41,503 need or you know and it yeah it doesn't doesn't feel good doesn't feel good to anybody you can smell it a mile 294 00:34:42,735 --> 00:34:43,655 Absolutely. 295 00:34:43,655 --> 00:34:49,750 Yeah, yeah, and there again, when you're genuine, when you're authentic, that also can be felt. 296 00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:59,687 you know, then people will want to be, you know, it's a pleasurable feeling, it's a pleasurable feeling to be around. 297 00:35:01,695 --> 00:35:05,327 Yeah, so yeah, makes all relationships completely different. 298 00:35:05,894 --> 00:35:06,315 doesn't it? 299 00:35:06,315 --> 00:35:11,370 Because you're just, you're just experiencing things differently and living things differently. 300 00:35:12,392 --> 00:35:20,982 But it does mean you've, but, but it does mean you've got to have boundaries, you know, you no longer want, I'm to start that again. 301 00:35:24,044 --> 00:35:27,805 It is so much nicer when we are authentic and living like that. 302 00:35:28,825 --> 00:35:37,668 What I've noticed though, you've got to have boundaries and you've got to better protect yourself because otherwise you're going to be loving and giving and people are going to 303 00:35:37,668 --> 00:35:38,278 exploit that. 304 00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:45,070 So how do you then put yourself in a place where you're going to still be authentic, but you're not going to get walked over. 305 00:35:45,070 --> 00:35:52,772 You're not going to be manipulated or bullied or coerced by other people because that seems to be a common problem with people who 306 00:35:53,404 --> 00:35:59,090 kind, certainly empathic, they're easily manipulated if they're not sensible or clever. 307 00:35:59,090 --> 00:36:00,020 Yeah, absolutely. 308 00:36:00,020 --> 00:36:01,511 yeah. 309 00:36:01,591 --> 00:36:08,093 I mean, boundaries is the key issue. 310 00:36:08,114 --> 00:36:13,335 Even just the thought that you can have boundaries. 311 00:36:14,416 --> 00:36:26,940 I mean, for me, as I was growing up, if I had boundaries, again, that was seen as a non -loving act to have boundaries. 312 00:36:28,757 --> 00:36:47,228 just the idea of having a boundary for me was unthinkable and when I was married I had zero boundaries and could never figure out what was my part in the relationship not 313 00:36:47,228 --> 00:36:56,765 working and as you know which is often the the case is well I'll just give more and I'll just 314 00:36:56,765 --> 00:37:02,690 keep giving and I'll try extra hard but that was not the way to... 315 00:37:03,711 --> 00:37:05,392 I was giving too much. 316 00:37:05,392 --> 00:37:15,150 What was my part in the relationship was that I didn't have boundaries and if you don't have boundaries you do things that you don't want to do you end up getting resentful, you 317 00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:20,605 get very passive aggressive, you know never clear communicating. 318 00:37:20,986 --> 00:37:24,308 It is not a good way to be you know and that is a huge 319 00:37:26,439 --> 00:37:32,753 part of the relationship that you have to become aware and responsible of. 320 00:37:32,753 --> 00:37:48,253 It was only when I realised that that was my part in the relationship dynamic did things start to change for me because I thought boundaries were bad and giving was good. 321 00:37:48,253 --> 00:37:52,416 So if I wanted to be good and do my part in a relationship I just had to give more. 322 00:37:52,416 --> 00:37:56,118 That is not the way, you know, the thing. 323 00:37:56,332 --> 00:38:10,466 do is in a relationship is I mean it's really good to there's a great exercise to do where you just you you close your eyes and you scan around and you imagine what your boundary 324 00:38:10,466 --> 00:38:21,399 looks like you know do you have a brick wall as a boundary do you have spikes as a boundary or do you have giant gaping holes because sometimes you know if you're if you're 325 00:38:21,399 --> 00:38:24,492 like you're saying you've been a bit of a shit you might have a bit of 326 00:38:24,492 --> 00:38:32,087 brick wall or you might have spikes then you might know okay got too much of a boundary need to soften it up there. 327 00:38:32,087 --> 00:38:43,235 So for me, mine, I just have big gaping holes in the in the front of me like right well that needs that needs stitching up so first it's good to just do close your eyes and just 328 00:38:43,235 --> 00:38:53,741 check around yourself and see what kind of boundaries you have because if they're too much you need to soften them up if they're 329 00:38:54,456 --> 00:39:12,002 weak you need to strengthen them so it's just good to know where you personally are at and then boundaries then are loving a good boundary is loving because 330 00:39:14,307 --> 00:39:35,231 when I am too loving I am taking the responsibility of the other person that is very insulting that is not a loving act so good boundaries is loving so that's that's that's 331 00:39:35,231 --> 00:39:43,138 that's how I would see boundaries and it's that's really it's a great place to start any work 332 00:39:43,138 --> 00:39:53,994 with yourself if you're just exploring things for the first time, looking at your own boundaries and starting there and exploring from there you'll get a lot of insight from 333 00:39:53,994 --> 00:39:54,954 yourself. 334 00:39:55,955 --> 00:39:58,816 You can change a lot of relationship dynamics that way too. 335 00:40:00,282 --> 00:40:06,507 I think that's interesting because obviously the codependent male, his would be fairly different. 336 00:40:06,507 --> 00:40:10,180 I mean, I'm looking at mine and looking at them ruefully. 337 00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:11,301 Yeah, I'll do that for you. 338 00:40:11,301 --> 00:40:11,942 I'll do that. 339 00:40:11,942 --> 00:40:12,422 I'll do that. 340 00:40:12,422 --> 00:40:12,873 I'll do that. 341 00:40:12,873 --> 00:40:13,323 I'll do that. 342 00:40:13,323 --> 00:40:14,084 I'll do that. 343 00:40:14,084 --> 00:40:17,346 Disempower, disempower, disempower, disempower. 344 00:40:17,346 --> 00:40:20,339 And it was that and then I wouldn't do them anyway. 345 00:40:20,339 --> 00:40:25,173 yeah, the best will in the intention, you know, I'll do it, don't worry. 346 00:40:25,173 --> 00:40:27,707 And it was horrendously disempowering. 347 00:40:27,707 --> 00:40:33,271 Yeah and if you look behind that again, fear, I'll do that then I'll be great, I'll be a good boy, you'll love me. 348 00:40:33,492 --> 00:40:34,352 No? 349 00:40:34,353 --> 00:40:41,339 It's just so, so basically it's going fear, fear, fear, you're not responsible, you're not responsible. 350 00:40:41,740 --> 00:40:46,103 So, so yeah it's then we wonder why it all goes wrong. 351 00:40:46,608 --> 00:40:47,368 Yeah. 352 00:40:47,409 --> 00:40:49,702 And it's the other person's fault because they did it. 353 00:40:49,702 --> 00:40:50,412 They didn't love me. 354 00:40:50,412 --> 00:40:51,203 They didn't respect me. 355 00:40:51,203 --> 00:40:56,039 It's like, Yeah, it's a minefield. 356 00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:57,400 It really is. 357 00:40:58,762 --> 00:41:03,869 And then the shame comes in and then you suddenly realize that I was doing the best I could. 358 00:41:03,869 --> 00:41:04,970 I didn't know better. 359 00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:05,930 And now. 360 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,382 Exactly, bring it back, bring it back, bring it back to the safe place. 361 00:41:09,382 --> 00:41:11,732 Bring it back to the safe place. 362 00:41:11,913 --> 00:41:14,394 You just know, like you're saying, you're doing your best. 363 00:41:14,694 --> 00:41:16,555 Bring it back to the safe place. 364 00:41:16,635 --> 00:41:17,806 You start to build up again. 365 00:41:17,806 --> 00:41:23,719 Then you're not coming from that fear, you're coming from that loved part. 366 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,879 You just try again. 367 00:41:24,879 --> 00:41:27,541 Sure, we're gonna fuck it up straight away, we're gonna fuck it up. 368 00:41:27,541 --> 00:41:30,542 But you know, maybe a bit longer each time it'll 369 00:41:31,913 --> 00:41:32,843 I think I think so. 370 00:41:32,843 --> 00:41:36,445 yeah, you know, and we try and change our behavior. 371 00:41:36,445 --> 00:41:38,676 And some days we do some days we don't. 372 00:41:40,618 --> 00:41:42,468 That's just part of the human experience, isn't it? 373 00:41:42,468 --> 00:41:44,139 We don't always get it right. 374 00:41:44,139 --> 00:41:47,581 But we can learn from it, we can go, hmm, that doesn't work. 375 00:41:47,581 --> 00:41:52,520 So I will put that down as a brick, I can stand on and I can look over it a bit more and see what happens. 376 00:41:52,520 --> 00:42:06,774 I mean for me I love information, love feeling through, like I always do readings on myself and I feel through what's behind that defence or what's behind that collapse or 377 00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:11,375 what's behind that feeling and I love getting the information and going all the way back. 378 00:42:11,375 --> 00:42:21,638 But then really the work that has actually been transformative is more of 379 00:42:22,814 --> 00:42:33,170 sensing work and like I said I found it through shamanism but it doesn't have to be shamanism you know if praying is your thing and you feel a connection with God great go 380 00:42:33,170 --> 00:42:42,086 there if meditation is your thing and you connect to the one that's brilliant if you love swimming or walking or whatever your thing is where you feel if you're out in nature and 381 00:42:42,086 --> 00:42:47,959 you feel totally connected do that do all the time do it every day because 382 00:42:48,731 --> 00:43:00,979 It's really in those moments when that shame is actually met with love, is met with connection, that is where the healing happens. 383 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:15,549 know, awakenings are great and you know, having those bursts of revelation, know, I love my information, that's all fantastic, but really that deep healing comes from being 384 00:43:15,549 --> 00:43:18,452 repeatedly held and repeatedly. 385 00:43:18,452 --> 00:43:22,797 and yeah sorry 386 00:43:23,033 --> 00:43:24,315 It's a bit like buying a house. 387 00:43:24,315 --> 00:43:25,547 That's the easy bit, isn't it? 388 00:43:25,547 --> 00:43:27,610 I mean, yes, it's expensive, but that's easy bit. 389 00:43:27,610 --> 00:43:31,745 Then you've got to live there, pay the bills, do the renovation. 390 00:43:33,148 --> 00:43:34,358 Yeah, I've heard about that one. 391 00:43:34,358 --> 00:43:37,720 Yeah, it happens sometimes. 392 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:49,404 Yeah, it's the everyday work, but not just the work, it's the everyday connection. 393 00:43:49,404 --> 00:44:08,625 If you can have some kind of beautiful connection every day with that reminder that you're part of this big wide oneness, that you have a part in it, you have a belonging in it, 394 00:44:09,506 --> 00:44:10,446 that's... 395 00:44:10,837 --> 00:44:15,640 That's the consistent healing, that's the everyday healing. 396 00:44:16,281 --> 00:44:19,144 So in whichever way, anybody has to get there. 397 00:44:19,144 --> 00:44:20,816 You get there, you're away. 398 00:44:20,816 --> 00:44:23,171 What would be some good ways to get there? 399 00:44:23,171 --> 00:44:27,529 Let's say I'm listening to this and I've had my brain blown with all sorts of things. 400 00:44:27,529 --> 00:44:28,701 like, well, I want some of that. 401 00:44:28,701 --> 00:44:30,585 I want that sense of peace. 402 00:44:30,585 --> 00:44:32,359 What could I start to do to... 403 00:44:32,359 --> 00:44:44,255 spot, spot where I can do what I'm doing, what can I find out around my environment and me, how can I sort of start to tap into that change that I want. 404 00:44:45,149 --> 00:44:48,690 Well, first step always, find a safe place. 405 00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:51,151 I mean that is the biggest, hugest thing. 406 00:44:51,151 --> 00:45:09,559 We're, you know, we're, you know, humans that are around other humans that are mostly just in a state and we're around these other humans and our heads are wrecked and we often just 407 00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:12,840 don't feel safe ever and maybe... 408 00:45:12,988 --> 00:45:14,989 your childhood you didn't feel safe. 409 00:45:14,989 --> 00:45:23,665 So maybe you've gone through childhood, didn't feel safe, became an adult, still didn't feel safe, made relationships that you don't feel safe in, in a work environment that's 410 00:45:23,665 --> 00:45:25,476 stressful, you don't feel safe in. 411 00:45:25,476 --> 00:45:34,703 I mean, we live in busy places that are anxiety ridden and it's a chronic state. 412 00:45:34,703 --> 00:45:36,554 We also feel chronically lonely. 413 00:45:36,554 --> 00:45:41,947 So chronically stressed, chronically lonely, largely in a Western society. 414 00:45:42,875 --> 00:45:55,896 So the first thing to do is find some quiet and find, seek out a safe space and I would suggest a professional safe space, whether that's a really good yoga teacher, meditation 415 00:45:55,896 --> 00:46:04,063 teacher, whether that's counselling, whether that is I really love somatic experiencing, I'm going to be training in that next year. 416 00:46:04,063 --> 00:46:07,565 Things that make your body feel safe 417 00:46:08,508 --> 00:46:16,281 place that you can begin to relax in because once you relax you just naturally come out. 418 00:46:17,002 --> 00:46:27,026 So the work mostly is finding safe spaces and somebody to hold that safe space in a really loving way and just do that repeatedly. 419 00:46:28,006 --> 00:46:36,650 So whichever way that is like I said if praying does it for you, if meditating does it for you, walking, swimming, being in nature, if cooking does it for 420 00:46:37,210 --> 00:46:50,716 you do that thing but it's good to find somebody that can hold a group well or hold a one -to -one session really well but somebody that you feel entirely comfortable and safe with 421 00:46:50,716 --> 00:47:02,281 and just do that on a regular basis and that would be that would be a starting point because you need the pressure to be taken off we just were in defence mode most of the 422 00:47:02,281 --> 00:47:04,581 time we're kind of looking around 423 00:47:06,054 --> 00:47:14,077 Yeah, we just need somebody just to hold that safety and be reminded that, you know, somebody does have our back. 424 00:47:14,077 --> 00:47:15,451 Yep, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? 425 00:47:15,451 --> 00:47:17,264 Yeah. 426 00:47:17,968 --> 00:47:20,344 And what about things like journaling and gratitude? 427 00:47:20,344 --> 00:47:22,129 Are those part of your toolkit? 428 00:47:22,129 --> 00:47:29,352 Not so much journaling, you know, you can get too thinky and I'm quite thinky. 429 00:47:31,814 --> 00:47:45,501 I mean when I do a reading for myself I always write it down and like I said I love information but really the healing has come more from those deeper more somatic 430 00:47:47,183 --> 00:47:49,664 experiences and 431 00:47:49,976 --> 00:47:57,018 try shamanic journey because getting a relationship with... 432 00:47:58,498 --> 00:48:09,491 so your spirits they're real they're here guys there is if you want if you want help there's an abundance back there and nobody can tell you which way to do it shamanism is 433 00:48:09,491 --> 00:48:19,574 really good for finding your own way your own connection it is the path of direct revelation so find a good shamanic teacher 434 00:48:19,828 --> 00:48:35,996 a good shamanic practitioner and find your own guides, get to know your ancestors, you've got whole line of buddies back there, you know they're around all the time, you know I 435 00:48:35,996 --> 00:48:46,993 find it much better having a good you know being part of a team instead of going solo the whole time and yeah then you know get to know your directions even the directions can be 436 00:48:46,993 --> 00:48:48,563 your buddies, everything. 437 00:48:48,563 --> 00:48:50,584 everything ends up being your body. 438 00:48:51,225 --> 00:48:58,890 so yeah shamanic journeying that's definitely that would be a huge toolkit. 439 00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:01,732 Meditation, yoga, some kind of body movement. 440 00:49:02,192 --> 00:49:04,424 Yeah all those. 441 00:49:04,424 --> 00:49:05,905 So it is movement. 442 00:49:05,905 --> 00:49:10,149 Okay, I'm not gonna go there for a second. 443 00:49:10,149 --> 00:49:13,002 There was something I really wanted to pick up, but I can't remember what it was. 444 00:49:13,002 --> 00:49:14,396 It's obviously gone for a 445 00:49:16,704 --> 00:49:17,905 This is brilliant, by the way. 446 00:49:17,905 --> 00:49:19,806 I'm loving this. 447 00:49:19,806 --> 00:49:21,767 is, yeah. 448 00:49:23,369 --> 00:49:25,230 Yeah. 449 00:49:25,230 --> 00:49:25,951 Good. 450 00:49:25,951 --> 00:49:28,972 That's just the way it should be. 451 00:49:28,993 --> 00:49:29,533 That's right. 452 00:49:29,533 --> 00:49:30,753 I know what it was. 453 00:49:34,276 --> 00:49:42,022 you've, Kate, you've talked about, sorry, Kate, you've talked about ancestors. 454 00:49:42,022 --> 00:49:45,600 Talk to me about that because there's a lot of stuff. 455 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:51,165 certainly in the new age and around like, you know, the ancestors, your parents taught you this, your grandparents taught you this. 456 00:49:51,165 --> 00:49:56,470 And there's a lot of negativity around ancestors, ancestral healing, ancestral belief. 457 00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:58,412 But it's not all negative, is 458 00:49:58,598 --> 00:50:01,138 It's totally not, it's not negative at all. 459 00:50:01,138 --> 00:50:04,838 Your ancestors, they're the ones that hold you. 460 00:50:04,838 --> 00:50:08,058 They're completely held by your ancestors. 461 00:50:08,078 --> 00:50:22,018 Now, if you have a tricky family, which has got to be like 99 .99 % of people, you might balk at the idea of contacting your ancestors because they might not have been very nice 462 00:50:22,018 --> 00:50:23,138 in life. 463 00:50:23,258 --> 00:50:26,798 But what you do is you... 464 00:50:28,133 --> 00:50:28,834 contact. 465 00:50:28,834 --> 00:50:33,887 You go as far back as it takes until you find an ancestor. 466 00:50:33,887 --> 00:50:43,365 So you don't have to do this cognitively, you can do it in a kind of a dream or a shamanic journey or just in a letting your mind wander. 467 00:50:43,365 --> 00:50:48,529 And you go back as far as it takes to find an ancestor that is wise and well. 468 00:50:48,529 --> 00:50:57,870 So those are the ancestors that you're talking to is the wise and well ancestors, not the ancestors that are still trying to figure it all out because they can still be a mess. 469 00:50:57,870 --> 00:51:01,181 So you go all the way back, all the way, all the way, all the way. 470 00:51:01,181 --> 00:51:09,394 And there's loads, there's a whole heap of information and love and support and abilities and qualities and strengths. 471 00:51:09,394 --> 00:51:14,895 Every bit that you have in your body is all thanks to your ancestors. 472 00:51:14,895 --> 00:51:21,957 So we just live in immense gratitude of the gifts our ancestors gave us. 473 00:51:23,098 --> 00:51:24,638 So you go all the way back. 474 00:51:24,638 --> 00:51:27,939 find a really good egg, contact them. 475 00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:38,742 If you're doing the ancestral healing then you work from the good egg back towards you and you start cleaning the line. 476 00:51:39,102 --> 00:51:43,883 And then can do that for the different, say your mother's mother's mother's and your father's father's father's. 477 00:51:44,123 --> 00:51:50,385 And I've found that really beneficial. 478 00:51:50,425 --> 00:51:53,766 And in the readings, the way I came to ancestral healing, 479 00:51:53,808 --> 00:52:05,194 was through some of the readings, always I see the person's parents and then in some cases I started to see their parents and their parents' parents and their parents' parents' 480 00:52:05,194 --> 00:52:11,557 parents' parents and I could see that there was an issue along that line. 481 00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:22,523 And I had a client and I was not aware of ancestral healing at the time and so I was explaining this and I was like, I don't know what the story is. 482 00:52:22,583 --> 00:52:37,567 and she said, yeah, I've just started doing ancestral healing and there's an issue going back in that direction and I was really curious so looked into that myself and now it's 483 00:52:37,567 --> 00:52:51,935 largely ancestors that I work with and yeah, they have all the knowledge, they've been there, they've done that, they've got several t -shirts and yeah, it's all good. 484 00:52:51,935 --> 00:52:57,479 all positive and again it would be something I'd recommend to everybody because we all have ancestors. 485 00:53:00,150 --> 00:53:01,641 I suppose, well, I don't suppose. 486 00:53:01,641 --> 00:53:15,296 And I suppose that all the ancestors that we have have all grown up, had children, obviously, passed on their genetic material, passed on their stories, their beliefs, their 487 00:53:15,537 --> 00:53:17,808 healthy traits, and some of the unhealthy ones. 488 00:53:17,808 --> 00:53:20,799 So, you know, they've all, they're all survivors. 489 00:53:20,799 --> 00:53:27,462 They've all gone through their life, made sense of it, and have come out the other side and then passed 490 00:53:29,734 --> 00:53:36,142 Talk to me about this cleaning bit, you can simplistically, because I don't understand what that means. 491 00:53:36,916 --> 00:53:58,415 Okay so like you said we inherit everything obviously from our ancestors, our skills and our gifts but also traumas so there's an experiment that people talk about with the rats 492 00:53:58,415 --> 00:54:00,756 and they give the rat 493 00:54:01,353 --> 00:54:04,785 smell of cherry blossom and then give it a lovely electric shock. 494 00:54:04,785 --> 00:54:07,657 It's not lovely, it's horrible. 495 00:54:08,118 --> 00:54:20,836 So that rat has children and they give the children the smell of cherry blossom without the electric shock but they still react as if they've had the electric shock because 496 00:54:20,836 --> 00:54:26,010 they've inherited that fear from the parent rat. 497 00:54:26,871 --> 00:54:30,773 But that can go on for seven generations of rats. 498 00:54:32,646 --> 00:54:48,940 So here I am, I had a relatively nice childhood but both myself and particularly my brother have huge PTSD symptoms. 499 00:54:48,940 --> 00:55:00,212 Now there's nothing traumatic, hugely traumatic that happened to us but in both my parents' lives they would have had 500 00:55:00,212 --> 00:55:09,658 huge traumatic childhoods and their reactions and fears just get passed down. 501 00:55:09,658 --> 00:55:14,080 They get passed down implicitly and explicitly. 502 00:55:15,841 --> 00:55:17,902 Some are just in a felt sense. 503 00:55:17,902 --> 00:55:27,138 But the next generation, like the next generation of rat doesn't know why it's freaking out at the smell of cherry blossom, it just knows that cherry blossom is anxiety 504 00:55:27,138 --> 00:55:28,138 -provoking. 505 00:55:28,366 --> 00:55:40,164 So this is what happens in humans too, that we have lots of fears or trauma responses that don't come from anything in our direct experience, but they would have come from parents 506 00:55:40,164 --> 00:55:42,365 and sometimes the parents' parents. 507 00:55:42,786 --> 00:55:56,975 And then that can carry on all the way down so you can have a long lineage of a particular type of defensive behaviour pattern or relationship dynamic or addiction. 508 00:55:58,916 --> 00:56:03,057 infinite varieties but it can be passed down. 509 00:56:03,298 --> 00:56:14,243 Now those parents or those grandparents they could be living and you might be able to work with them directly or they might be deceased and your only way to work with them then is 510 00:56:14,243 --> 00:56:17,184 in an energetic capacity. 511 00:56:17,644 --> 00:56:24,527 So like I said you wouldn't want to just go straight to the traumatised parent or grandparent you'd want to 512 00:56:24,799 --> 00:56:29,080 all the way back till you find your good egg, to find your wise and well ancestor. 513 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:42,384 And then you help bring in the authentic true qualities and abilities to meet the traumas of the present. 514 00:56:42,424 --> 00:56:47,105 So it's a bit similar to what you do in counselling or any kind of therapy. 515 00:56:47,365 --> 00:56:53,367 You would have the anchor of your authentic true self, 516 00:56:53,397 --> 00:57:05,924 the part that feels supported and loved and you'd bring that up against the trauma, your fear response, your defensive behaviour patterns and you just slowly introduce them again 517 00:57:05,924 --> 00:57:20,732 and again and again so that the trauma meets the love and the support and then eventually it's calmed down until they can go together and the trauma can be supported by the love or 518 00:57:23,005 --> 00:57:24,846 authentic true qualities. 519 00:57:24,866 --> 00:57:37,141 So it's the same with the ancestors, you bring in your wise and well ancestors to come and meet your trauma ancestors and they meet and healing can take place. 520 00:57:37,141 --> 00:57:45,474 And then you can kind of clean the line from all the way back into the future. 521 00:57:45,935 --> 00:57:52,417 And then you find big things release in yourself, relationship dynamics change. 522 00:57:53,045 --> 00:58:08,315 Yeah, it's quite amazing actually when I was I was doing that myself, you know, I worked I don't talk to my family about this and and my I just done a huge healing on my mother's 523 00:58:08,315 --> 00:58:12,388 dad's line and My aunt rang me up. 524 00:58:12,388 --> 00:58:14,690 She said I saw my brother today. 525 00:58:14,690 --> 00:58:22,805 He just gave me a hug He's never given me a hug in my whole life, and then he started telling me all these things 526 00:58:22,823 --> 00:58:36,178 about his about the childhood and I didn't realise all these different things and telling me about things about about his dad and I was just on the phone and it worked so yeah and 527 00:58:36,178 --> 00:58:37,020 that's often the 528 00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:46,378 And for anyone who thinks that's completely woo woo, our cells, our DNA does pass down all this stuff. 529 00:58:46,378 --> 00:58:48,530 know, science has proved this. 530 00:58:48,530 --> 00:58:52,173 This is not crazy. 531 00:58:52,214 --> 00:58:53,144 Science proves it. 532 00:58:53,144 --> 00:58:55,997 And then I think that's what remarkable. 533 00:58:55,997 --> 00:59:00,661 And if science doesn't have to prove it, it's your aunt who's out of the blue. 534 00:59:00,661 --> 00:59:04,064 You know, if there's no proof, it's that. 535 00:59:04,516 --> 00:59:09,798 And as you were describing that, it's almost like that story that my dad beat me. 536 00:59:10,778 --> 00:59:11,918 You know, it's the same as that. 537 00:59:11,918 --> 00:59:15,299 That's not actually true, but that's the story I've carried. 538 00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:19,421 And so then the old ancestor can actually say, no, that's not true. 539 00:59:19,421 --> 00:59:22,461 And then I can go, yeah, I'm lying. 540 00:59:22,522 --> 00:59:23,782 So that's the kind of healing. 541 00:59:23,782 --> 00:59:30,790 It's taking that trauma, that story, whatever it is, actually just giving it truth, giving it love. 542 00:59:30,790 --> 00:59:44,840 or if your dad actually did beat you, you know, the feeling that he had, you know, he, I mean, and it's different in each line, you know, he might have felt terrified to be 543 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:50,574 himself and saw something in you and that be passed down from generations. 544 00:59:50,574 --> 00:59:52,535 And then if he can get rid of that, 545 00:59:54,154 --> 01:00:05,578 or if you can begin to heal that fear, if you can begin to heal that shame in him, that then sends the healing all the way down the line and frees you up too. 546 01:00:07,442 --> 01:00:08,944 It's definitely a complicated... 547 01:00:08,944 --> 01:00:10,926 Is it complicated? 548 01:00:10,926 --> 01:00:14,559 It's definitely a subject that needs a bit more understanding from my side. 549 01:00:14,921 --> 01:00:17,833 Yeah, no, I don't see it as complicated. 550 01:00:17,833 --> 01:00:25,097 It's just because, you know, we inherit stuff, you know, our parents held it in their bodies, then we held it in our bodies. 551 01:00:25,097 --> 01:00:38,023 If we can begin to release it from our bodies and connect backwards, we can get that ripple effect of relief where everybody then gets to take off the lead weight. 552 01:00:38,344 --> 01:00:40,425 The person behind you takes off their lead weight. 553 01:00:40,425 --> 01:00:43,016 The person behind them takes off their lead weight. 554 01:00:43,324 --> 01:00:50,722 and you can, instead of inheriting all the trauma, you can do your healing and pass the healing 555 01:00:52,850 --> 01:00:54,291 and you can go any which way. 556 01:00:54,291 --> 01:01:00,516 You can either bring the healing from back and have it yourself or you do your healing, pass it backwards. 557 01:01:00,816 --> 01:01:01,958 And that's the good thing. 558 01:01:01,958 --> 01:01:13,988 Again, being in that connected way, your healing is my healing, my healing is your healing, my healing is the person next to me healing, it's the ancestor behind me, their 559 01:01:13,988 --> 01:01:16,760 healing, my ancestor's healing is my healing. 560 01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,130 We all get healed. 561 01:01:18,351 --> 01:01:19,792 It's the better way. 562 01:01:20,573 --> 01:01:21,733 And it's shared. 563 01:01:23,304 --> 01:01:24,296 It is shared, isn't it? 564 01:01:24,296 --> 01:01:28,853 And the whole experience, just that positive energy, just... 565 01:01:28,874 --> 01:01:29,715 Yeah. 566 01:01:29,715 --> 01:01:30,082 Wow. 567 01:01:30,082 --> 01:01:31,533 and it's not just positive energy. 568 01:01:31,533 --> 01:01:37,467 There's real changes in your body. 569 01:01:37,467 --> 01:01:39,788 Genes can get turned off and on. 570 01:01:40,049 --> 01:01:42,150 You can make physical changes. 571 01:01:42,250 --> 01:01:46,493 You can see that the life circumstances change. 572 01:01:48,415 --> 01:01:51,636 The ripple effect is huge. 573 01:01:52,738 --> 01:01:59,662 Which is why now I just want to devote my life that way because... 574 01:02:00,666 --> 01:02:05,221 it's the thing that feels best and has had the best results. 575 01:02:07,937 --> 01:02:08,580 Kate, thank you. 576 01:02:08,580 --> 01:02:11,021 I think this has been a fantastic conversation. 577 01:02:11,021 --> 01:02:13,689 Now, where can people find out more about 578 01:02:14,257 --> 01:02:22,271 You can visit my website which is lifemanualreadings .com or on Instagram at life manual readings. 579 01:02:22,271 --> 01:02:29,594 My work is described more in depth on the website but there's also nice pictures on Instagram. 580 01:02:31,185 --> 01:02:35,689 and there's some lovely pictures on your website and tell me who drew those pictures? 581 01:02:35,689 --> 01:02:43,598 yeah, I drew those pictures because I just love art and all things creative I'm always at something. 582 01:02:45,737 --> 01:02:46,843 Brilliant, thank you. 583 01:02:46,843 --> 01:02:50,078 Now I think you've got a special gift for my listeners, haven't you as well? 584 01:02:50,078 --> 01:02:53,731 Yep, there's a free downloadable PDF that you can get on the website. 585 01:02:55,213 --> 01:03:09,457 You can also email me, but it's on the website and it's a PDF for an exercise that you can tune into your true self at the start of every day and meet the energy of the day so that 586 01:03:09,457 --> 01:03:12,730 you can consistently be yourself throughout the day. 587 01:03:13,671 --> 01:03:14,482 I love that. 588 01:03:14,482 --> 01:03:16,523 think that is great. 589 01:03:16,523 --> 01:03:20,606 I'm looking forward to download that off your website as well. 590 01:03:21,528 --> 01:03:22,078 Thank you. 591 01:03:22,078 --> 01:03:23,940 And then one last question, Kate. 592 01:03:23,940 --> 01:03:28,193 What is your superpower that you have gained from your awakening? 593 01:03:28,550 --> 01:03:42,797 my superpower is the thing that I was always ashamed of which is my sensitivity and it's the sensitivity that make me aware of all the beautiful things that exist in the in the 594 01:03:42,797 --> 01:03:48,073 world and help to navigate them and that's what it's all about. 595 01:03:50,002 --> 01:04:00,076 I Think that is lovely and what as you said that what I really felt was that is the biggest piece of self -forgiveness that you can do you've forgiven yourself for that shame 596 01:04:00,076 --> 01:04:00,986 for 597 01:04:01,708 --> 01:04:03,645 being unable to make sense of your life. 598 01:04:03,645 --> 01:04:06,185 So I think that is really, really precious. 599 01:04:06,185 --> 01:04:08,220 So thank you ever so much. 600 01:04:08,268 --> 01:04:09,169 Thank you. 601 01:04:09,169 --> 01:04:10,841 It's been lovely talking to you, Hamish. 602 01:04:11,588 --> 01:04:15,948 Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious. 603 01:04:15,948 --> 01:04:24,588 If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for 604 01:04:24,588 --> 01:04:25,528 their own journey. 605 01:04:25,528 --> 01:04:32,108 I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast platform as well, that helps me reach more people. 606 01:04:32,108 --> 01:04:35,568 All the important links and information are in the show notes below. 607 01:04:35,568 --> 01:04:38,652 Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.