WEBVTT [this transcript auto-generated] 00:01:04.868 --> 00:01:09.148 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Two Tusks podcast. I'm Bryce. Hello, Jeff. 00:01:09.348 --> 00:01:09.508 Hello. 00:01:09.848 --> 00:01:10.308 Welcome back. 00:01:10.548 --> 00:01:10.968 Yes. 00:01:11.148 --> 00:01:15.088 It is side D. We are here on the fourth side of- Final side. 00:01:15.228 --> 00:01:16.228 Tusk. It's our final side. 00:01:16.348 --> 00:01:16.488 Yeah. 00:01:16.488 --> 00:01:20.128 How do you feel after this, like, two-month project? 00:01:21.068 --> 00:01:28.448 I was actually thinking the other day about how I really want to take Tusk and make the Jeff. 00:01:28.448 --> 00:01:29.508 Version of. 00:01:29.508 --> 00:01:31.708 Tusk that only is like 10 songs. 00:01:31.708 --> 00:01:32.628 And mostly. 00:01:32.628 --> 00:01:35.508 Just the ones that I really like because there was there been some real bangers 00:01:35.508 --> 00:01:36.428 on here that i've enjoyed. 00:01:36.428 --> 00:01:37.348 Yeah but. 00:01:37.348 --> 00:01:41.768 I will say that side d is not it probably only has one song. 00:01:41.768 --> 00:01:44.468 I feel you on 00:01:44.468 --> 00:01:47.268 both of both counts yeah like i've been thinking over the 00:01:47.268 --> 00:01:50.468 past few weeks like what if you rearranged this into its 00:01:50.468 --> 00:01:53.968 three pieces among the three songwriters as 00:01:53.968 --> 00:01:56.808 three solo albums like three lps or something 00:01:56.808 --> 00:01:59.588 um but i also think that they might be 00:01:59.588 --> 00:02:02.388 they would each be too lopsided yeah i think there's 00:02:02.388 --> 00:02:05.548 something about all of them being really different and weird that's good 00:02:05.548 --> 00:02:08.908 and also yeah this is definitely the miscellaneous side of 00:02:08.908 --> 00:02:14.188 this album um but it also has some of my favorite musical moments there you. 00:02:14.188 --> 00:02:18.288 Go so there we go uh you want to jump into our first track here honey high jump 00:02:18.288 --> 00:02:23.708 right in honey high honey high honey hi honey hi let's uh listen to a little 00:02:23.708 --> 00:02:27.588 preview of honey high sure how could you forget honey high i couldn't, 00:04:02.454 --> 00:04:03.214 Honey High. 00:04:03.434 --> 00:04:03.934 Honey High. 00:04:04.034 --> 00:04:10.594 The first track off of Side D. How do we feel about Honey High? It's kind of slight. 00:04:10.974 --> 00:04:14.534 I listened to this one, and there was something that was, like, 00:04:14.594 --> 00:04:19.054 pulling at my brain, saying, what is it about this song? 00:04:19.094 --> 00:04:22.714 And I finally realized what it was today, the last time that I listened to it. 00:04:23.994 --> 00:04:28.514 You talked before about the Beach Boys influence. This sounds like a Beach Boys song. 00:04:28.734 --> 00:04:29.154 Like. 00:04:29.254 --> 00:04:31.394 Between the bongos and the—. 00:04:31.394 --> 00:04:34.154 The little wood— wood um wood blocks yep. 00:04:34.154 --> 00:04:39.094 It's got a very light kind of yacht rock tropical kind of vibe to it. 00:04:39.094 --> 00:04:42.734 Yeah um in that way it sits alongside 00:04:42.734 --> 00:04:45.354 um never make me cry right kind of 00:04:45.354 --> 00:04:48.274 the watery beachy imagery of it 00:04:48.274 --> 00:04:51.314 sure um in uh in get 00:04:51.314 --> 00:04:54.494 tusked the uh memoir about recording this by ken 00:04:54.494 --> 00:05:00.234 calais and ernan rojas they uh described this as uh christine actually christine 00:05:00.234 --> 00:05:06.254 had described it at the time as the island love groove song and when i found 00:05:06.254 --> 00:05:10.574 that quote earlier today i had to write it down because at no point did i think 00:05:10.574 --> 00:05:13.014 it was an island groove song that. 00:05:13.014 --> 00:05:14.334 That lines up perfectly with. 00:05:14.334 --> 00:05:15.234 My impression and. 00:05:15.234 --> 00:05:17.354 This was a christine joint okay. 00:05:17.354 --> 00:05:17.934 Yeah i. 00:05:17.934 --> 00:05:24.174 Thought that it was so sweet and saccharine i was like i'm pretty sure this is christine. 00:05:24.174 --> 00:05:31.274 Yeah though i do think you can piece out the the other voices and backup voices here. 00:05:31.434 --> 00:05:35.694 I think you can hear Stevie a good bit and a little bit of Lindsay in the backing vocals. 00:05:37.274 --> 00:05:41.714 This is kind of a strange song. I didn't get the island-y thing until I saw 00:05:41.714 --> 00:05:43.034 that. I legitimately didn't. 00:05:43.474 --> 00:05:45.634 I think I have... 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:49.440 Paint a lot of this album as country. 00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:50.240 And i. 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.720 Think in my head this was a this is a country song. 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:58.460 You know it it possibly could be but i think that it was like the third time 00:05:58.460 --> 00:06:02.780 that listened to it that the the bongos i think that's what really like leans 00:06:02.780 --> 00:06:08.140 it more into that like kokomo kind of and you know i. 00:06:08.140 --> 00:06:14.560 Think i was stuck on um there's a little uh ding sound uh right after. 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:15.820 That Yeah. 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:19.480 And for some reason, yeah, I thought like, oh, it's kind of triangly. 00:06:19.640 --> 00:06:22.740 It's kind of giving farm triangle. 00:06:24.840 --> 00:06:29.700 But I, I have, I have like a really hot and cold relationship with the song. 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:34.680 I think it's super catchy. Yeah, I think this is another song where by the time 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.660 you get to the end of it, where it's doing this three or four part canon, 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:42.760 basically, you're kind of locked in like, 00:06:43.340 --> 00:06:46.040 honey, honey, hi, daddy, I'm here to tell. 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.660 Oh, I'm far away from like it's it's it's it that vocal interplay is so good. 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:53.340 You just need all of this warm-up to 00:06:53.340 --> 00:06:59.900 get into it between a really strangely structured song yeah there's a lot of 00:06:59.900 --> 00:07:06.760 like um six measure phrases almost you know a lot of beats like why do you have 00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:10.460 this line here when you could just go right into the second chorus like a lot 00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:11.980 of little things like that it's. 00:07:11.980 --> 00:07:16.160 Kind of awkward i mean that's the thing that differentiates to me between this 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.620 and a beach boy song is that beach boy songs are usually very smooth right. 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:20.420 They're Very easy. 00:07:20.420 --> 00:07:24.340 To listen to. Whereas this one is a little bit disjointed. 00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:31.620 You're caught flat-footed when those structures are not in four measures. 00:07:31.780 --> 00:07:36.400 When there's six measures, I don't know. I think in other pop songs when there's 00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:40.540 a six-measure phrase, it's usually like, it sounds good. 00:07:45.579 --> 00:07:46.099 You. 00:07:46.099 --> 00:07:52.799 Don't it's rather rather you don't get this like like starting and stopping almost. 00:07:52.799 --> 00:07:53.239 Yeah of. 00:07:53.239 --> 00:07:55.899 Like wait are we nope okay now we're going into. 00:07:55.899 --> 00:07:58.679 There's a i mean this and i think this 00:07:58.679 --> 00:08:01.719 whole side like has a lot of this to it i think it's somewhat endemic 00:08:01.719 --> 00:08:04.679 of how a lot of this album 00:08:04.679 --> 00:08:07.999 has some really interesting ideas that i almost want 00:08:07.999 --> 00:08:11.479 to see yet another pass over yeah 00:08:11.479 --> 00:08:14.199 because like this one like a lot of the songs on 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:19.599 this album i also feel like it doesn't have enough of a change like where a 00:08:19.599 --> 00:08:24.699 lot of these songs end up kind of just oozing together into one big verse right 00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:28.139 even if they do have chorus type of stuff that there's not much of a musical 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:32.319 change or anything to signal that we're moving to a different part of the song. 00:08:32.319 --> 00:08:35.319 It's kind of this one droning tale. 00:08:35.839 --> 00:08:39.199 Yeah, that's a lot, especially on this side, for sure. 00:08:39.359 --> 00:08:42.839 Yeah. Also, this one might have the longest fade in. 00:08:43.719 --> 00:08:44.279 It's so long. 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:46.139 I don't know, Tusk might have a longer fade in. 00:08:46.139 --> 00:08:52.219 It's so long, and it sounds really bad. I think it sounds so—they don't need 00:08:52.219 --> 00:08:55.459 it, because the instruments don't start at the same time fucking either. 00:08:55.599 --> 00:09:00.059 Yep. When I got in my car and I was driving over here, and I turned on, 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.319 I usually listen to the side right before we record. 00:09:03.439 --> 00:09:07.519 And my phone was connected to my Bluetooth and I was like, did I not hit play? 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.539 Did I not start? And then I heard it like really faintly. 00:09:10.599 --> 00:09:12.499 I felt the same thing when we were playing it here. I was like, 00:09:12.599 --> 00:09:16.259 I hit play, right? I don't want to like, oh my gosh. Yeah. 00:09:17.199 --> 00:09:19.159 Also, can we talk a little bit about daddy? 00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:23.019 Daddy, all I'm trying to tell you. This is... 00:09:23.987 --> 00:09:30.027 The third, if you look at the Fleetwood Mac's discography, so we're here on Tusk. 00:09:30.147 --> 00:09:30.267 Yeah. 00:09:30.587 --> 00:09:35.387 But Christina V has two other daddy songs up to this point. Fleetwood, 00:09:35.547 --> 00:09:36.987 on Fleetwood Mac, she has Sugar Daddy. 00:09:37.287 --> 00:09:37.527 Okay. 00:09:37.847 --> 00:09:44.327 Which is, you know, if he wants to pour me whiskey, he can pour it neat, but he can't love me. 00:09:44.527 --> 00:09:44.747 Yeah. 00:09:45.127 --> 00:09:47.347 And then Rumors, which had Oh Daddy. 00:09:47.667 --> 00:09:47.847 Okay. 00:09:47.927 --> 00:09:52.967 Which was kind of about Mick Fleetwood going through his own divorce. 00:09:53.987 --> 00:09:56.067 And so we also get daddy here in Honey High. 00:09:56.247 --> 00:09:57.707 Yeah, I think it's. 00:09:57.887 --> 00:10:02.727 So it's a part of this that like really has aged poorly or really weirdly for 00:10:02.727 --> 00:10:06.487 me, because I'm not into daddy imagery at all. I'm not for it. 00:10:06.727 --> 00:10:09.627 Well, yeah, I was I was thinking about like I was actually thinking a lot about 00:10:09.627 --> 00:10:13.747 this when I listened to this side because I was just kind of trying to find something to hang on to. 00:10:13.747 --> 00:10:17.847 But a lot of it was the idea that like this is from a different time and there 00:10:17.847 --> 00:10:22.387 probably has been an evolution of the way that that word is treated in popular 00:10:22.387 --> 00:10:27.467 culture that now makes it like stand out like a big bright light to me when I hear it in a song. 00:10:27.587 --> 00:10:31.827 And I'm like, oh, oh, oh, hello, daddy. Hello, daddy. Yeah. 00:10:32.167 --> 00:10:39.227 That's why. Go listen to Oh, daddy. From rumors. Oh, daddy. You know, you make me cry. 00:10:39.787 --> 00:10:42.167 Oh, goodness. Daddy. No. Oh, boy. 00:10:44.167 --> 00:10:50.747 Um another fun story from the get test book about this uh at one point they 00:10:50.747 --> 00:10:55.327 are they recorded a fencing match in the studio okay, 00:10:56.907 --> 00:11:02.967 for honey hot percussion yeah uh they recorded a fencing match that was in time 00:11:02.967 --> 00:11:06.447 with the song okay i don't know what that means they. 00:11:06.447 --> 00:11:08.747 Invented beat saber so early. 00:11:08.747 --> 00:11:13.487 They were the first stomp The first Beat Saber. A quote from Irnan, 00:11:13.727 --> 00:11:17.407 it was a lot of fun and it sounded great, but eventually we had to erase it 00:11:17.407 --> 00:11:20.287 when we ran out of tracks while recording the background vocals. 00:11:21.487 --> 00:11:25.927 What a weird reason to remove something so interesting and experimental. 00:11:26.587 --> 00:11:31.767 It sounded good, but, you know, the suits made us get ruined. 00:11:31.767 --> 00:11:34.847 Do we have another tape anywhere in here? Do we have any more? 00:11:35.067 --> 00:11:38.727 Now, granted, at the time, that's a real excuse. 00:11:38.887 --> 00:11:39.027 Sure. 00:11:39.027 --> 00:11:45.427 You know, mixing consoles, I think, that they were using in that studio was probably 24 tracks. 00:11:46.367 --> 00:11:50.547 And then I think they had like a 16 track second guy. 00:11:50.727 --> 00:11:54.507 They had a little fella over in the corner. That's the quickest way for me to describe it. 00:11:54.507 --> 00:11:58.087 I'm trying to imagine what that would sound like. Because this song is so chill. 00:11:58.727 --> 00:12:06.147 And having this kind of like, it might have been the spice that I needed to jazz it up a little bit. 00:12:06.807 --> 00:12:13.767 Well, let's listen to the alternate version of Honey High. This one is going to be different. 00:12:14.067 --> 00:12:14.287 Okay. 00:12:15.707 --> 00:12:16.507 Here we go. 00:15:22.368 --> 00:15:25.568 The alternate Honey High. It sounds more like a demo. 00:15:26.288 --> 00:15:31.948 Just guitar, keyboard, and Christine's vocal track. Probably a scratch vocal 00:15:31.948 --> 00:15:34.148 from the actual recording of it. 00:15:34.628 --> 00:15:40.088 And so you don't get the canon part at the end with the multiple voices. No background vocals. 00:15:41.228 --> 00:15:47.668 Something about this version of this song makes Honey High catchier to me. 00:15:47.908 --> 00:15:52.108 Something about just the Honey Honey High... 00:15:52.368 --> 00:15:54.888 At the end is all i need. 00:15:54.888 --> 00:15:55.708 Like that's. 00:15:55.708 --> 00:16:04.168 That's such enough of a hook that it kind of outperforms the studio that portion of the studio version. 00:16:04.168 --> 00:16:07.208 Well i did notice that daddy isn't with us anymore no daddy 00:16:07.208 --> 00:16:10.268 um no i agree that uh the 00:16:10.268 --> 00:16:13.308 thing is that i think that that the lyrics 00:16:13.308 --> 00:16:16.508 seem like they've been simplified in a way that that does just kind 00:16:16.508 --> 00:16:21.548 of cut to the heart of the sweet little song that we've got here um i think 00:16:21.548 --> 00:16:26.868 that though it loses a lot by simplifying the the music right by only having 00:16:26.868 --> 00:16:28.608 the couple of instruments yeah 00:16:28.608 --> 00:16:33.688 like i mean you know maybe adding add the fencing back in or it definitely. 00:16:33.688 --> 00:16:39.808 Goes from feeling like a band's song to christine's song. 00:16:39.808 --> 00:16:40.388 Yes in. 00:16:40.388 --> 00:16:43.648 In in so many words um i, 00:16:44.476 --> 00:16:50.076 I think it's interesting also in those last honey, honey highs at the end is 00:16:50.076 --> 00:16:55.456 you hear without the backing vocals and without, you know, the the the sheen 00:16:55.456 --> 00:16:57.056 of getting a perfect take. 00:16:57.276 --> 00:17:02.636 You hear her voice cracking as she's trying to hit those high notes and kind 00:17:02.636 --> 00:17:07.916 of similar to what we talked about in in the earlier Lindsay song. 00:17:07.916 --> 00:17:10.756 Uh and i know i'm not wrong i 00:17:10.756 --> 00:17:13.736 think where uh you just have 00:17:13.736 --> 00:17:16.776 where you he where that cracking as kind 00:17:16.776 --> 00:17:23.496 of the voice shifts along the windpipe it cracks um it feels like that's here 00:17:23.496 --> 00:17:29.116 too the intention almost the intentionality of it but instead of leaving it 00:17:29.116 --> 00:17:33.776 so raw yeah in invisible i I guess, and I know I'm not wrong. 00:17:34.236 --> 00:17:40.436 It gets kind of smoothed out by having a nicer take, multiple background tracks. 00:17:41.276 --> 00:17:46.136 Well, it's kind of strange because this version seems more like something, 00:17:47.096 --> 00:17:50.356 the arrangement seems like it was made for a more impactful song. 00:17:50.596 --> 00:17:54.456 Like not to insult Christine, I like pop songs or stuff, but this seems like 00:17:54.456 --> 00:17:58.316 the sort of thing where if you took this and you put in a bass line and a normal 00:17:58.316 --> 00:17:59.616 drums, not even the bongos, 00:17:59.896 --> 00:18:03.216 this would be the sort of song I wanted to hear really smoothed out 00:18:03.216 --> 00:18:07.996 really produced really because then it would be very just very catchy earworm 00:18:07.996 --> 00:18:14.016 i don't need to really be zoned in on the lyrics when most of them are just 00:18:14.016 --> 00:18:18.916 the word words honey high like i don't need to hear every intonation of your 00:18:18.916 --> 00:18:22.716 voice as you soulfully channel the honey high because because. 00:18:22.716 --> 00:18:27.396 Unlike um never make me cry which is a like a vocal showcase. 00:18:27.396 --> 00:18:29.376 Right this is not yeah um. 00:18:29.376 --> 00:18:34.736 And even maybe those two songs are similar in like the depth of their lyrics 00:18:34.736 --> 00:18:42.136 but but at the same time never make me cry is much more read read readable. 00:18:42.136 --> 00:18:43.876 You can read into it yeah more. 00:18:43.876 --> 00:18:48.136 Than lord i really love you love you love you honey honey honey. 00:18:48.136 --> 00:18:55.036 You know like it's it's like a reminiscent the lyrical content is reminiscent 00:18:55.036 --> 00:19:01.636 of like a like a 60s song like a doo-wop song or like early Beatles of just like very simple. 00:19:02.116 --> 00:19:03.656 Love you, baby. Yeah. 00:19:04.136 --> 00:19:05.836 Uh, candy with one flavor. 00:19:07.556 --> 00:19:07.996 Um, 00:19:08.784 --> 00:19:11.424 a funny bit in get tusked so get tusked is 00:19:11.424 --> 00:19:14.424 written by ken and ernan and uh when ken 00:19:14.424 --> 00:19:17.744 is talking about honey high they don't talk about honey high very much in in 00:19:17.744 --> 00:19:21.204 the book other than like the whole band put it together they use a lot of little 00:19:21.204 --> 00:19:26.684 instruments and they had a fun time jamming it out but um so ernan kind of talks 00:19:26.684 --> 00:19:32.764 about that process and in ken's uh short section talking about it instead of 00:19:32.764 --> 00:19:37.444 talking anything about like the recording of the song he mentions that uh. 00:19:37.964 --> 00:19:40.924 Christine gets dropped off by dennis wilson who she's dating at 00:19:40.924 --> 00:19:44.084 the time sure the beach boy who he likes to party he's 00:19:44.084 --> 00:19:46.944 drinking and drugging yep and he drops her off in 00:19:46.944 --> 00:19:49.744 his new uh shelby cobra a sports car 00:19:49.744 --> 00:19:53.684 and uh ken uh 00:19:53.684 --> 00:19:56.724 kind of sees you know sees her get out and 00:19:56.724 --> 00:19:59.504 dennis ends up giving him a ride offers like hey do you 00:19:59.504 --> 00:20:03.564 want to take a ride in my fucking shelby cobra uh and 00:20:03.564 --> 00:20:06.944 he does yeah and uh he 00:20:06.944 --> 00:20:09.784 realizes that the jug of orange juice that dennis 00:20:09.784 --> 00:20:13.544 is drinking in the car is not just orange juice and that 00:20:13.544 --> 00:20:16.604 dennis really likes this car yeah and the 00:20:16.604 --> 00:20:21.044 streets of los angeles do not okay so 00:20:21.044 --> 00:20:24.284 just a fun little a fun little uh side journey 00:20:24.284 --> 00:20:30.744 there uh in honey high i i i honestly don't have too anything else to say about 00:20:30.744 --> 00:20:37.184 this because it does feel like a pretty big departure from where the studio 00:20:37.184 --> 00:20:42.024 version ended up but at the same time i see a straight line between these two things it's. 00:20:42.024 --> 00:20:46.744 Also i mean just i mean and because of the time between us recording these i 00:20:46.744 --> 00:20:49.104 you know kind of wipe my memory of some. 00:20:49.104 --> 00:20:49.584 Of the previous. 00:20:49.584 --> 00:20:53.304 Stuff and dig back in but the one thing i think that this side and this just 00:20:53.304 --> 00:20:59.944 goes for everything is that the the previous sides have had at least a few places 00:20:59.944 --> 00:21:02.304 where we've had some really raw emotional. 00:21:02.304 --> 00:21:03.344 Content and. 00:21:03.344 --> 00:21:07.684 This being more of kind of a just an easy going you know. 00:21:07.684 --> 00:21:11.224 Yeah you're great song uh is. 00:21:11.224 --> 00:21:15.264 Is very much a departure from that i could i could see it being i don't know 00:21:15.264 --> 00:21:18.924 i could see somebody turning that disc over and being like Wait, where am I now? 00:21:19.084 --> 00:21:21.224 When is it going to start? When is it starting? 00:21:21.464 --> 00:21:22.084 That's right. 00:21:24.564 --> 00:21:30.764 Well, why don't we take a real hard dog leg left and move on to the second song, why don't we? 00:21:30.864 --> 00:21:31.044 Okay. 00:21:31.284 --> 00:21:34.704 Let's listen to a little bit of Beautiful Child before we talk about it. 00:21:34.804 --> 00:21:35.084 All right. 00:23:50.219 --> 00:23:51.099 Beautiful Child. 00:23:53.779 --> 00:23:56.299 That's maybe my favorite song on the album. 00:23:56.439 --> 00:23:56.619 Yum. 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.139 Beautiful Child. It's really, it's great to sing to. I mean, 00:24:02.379 --> 00:24:04.439 that's going to be my number one with a bullet. 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:10.159 It's amazing to sing to. If this is in your vocal range and you have a car with 00:24:10.159 --> 00:24:12.999 a sound speaker system, you should try singing Beautiful Child. 00:24:13.179 --> 00:24:13.379 Okay. 00:24:13.499 --> 00:24:15.539 Because you will go 95 miles per hour in your car. 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:17.199 Oh, this makes you go really fast. 00:24:17.219 --> 00:24:18.059 It makes you go very fast. 00:24:18.199 --> 00:24:18.539 Okay. 00:24:18.939 --> 00:24:20.219 I'm not a child! 00:24:22.639 --> 00:24:24.379 How do you feel about Beautiful Child? 00:24:24.479 --> 00:24:28.499 I'm very confused by this song. Like, I think that when I first listened to it. 00:24:28.539 --> 00:24:29.499 Oh, yes, I forgot. 00:24:30.939 --> 00:24:34.299 No, continue. Yeah, when I first listened to it, I thought it was, 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:39.779 like, you know, it's a Stevie Nicks, like, showcase, right? 00:24:39.879 --> 00:24:43.659 We're hearing her kind of do another one of these big kind of tone poem songs. 00:24:43.819 --> 00:24:47.599 The musically speaking, there's not a lot here. It's mostly just kind of backing her up. 00:24:48.159 --> 00:24:52.799 Um, and then I started kind of catching these snippets of the lyrics and I, 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:58.639 I really, I think that I may not have the proper framework to, 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.919 because there's a lot in here, you know, there's a part at the beginning about 00:25:01.919 --> 00:25:05.639 how you fell in love with me when I was 10 and, 00:25:06.439 --> 00:25:11.519 like, there's a read of this song that I don't know if this is like, 00:25:11.719 --> 00:25:14.619 like a, a person talking 00:25:14.619 --> 00:25:17.439 about getting into a relationship with somebody with a 00:25:17.439 --> 00:25:20.899 big age difference or something i don't know um 00:25:20.899 --> 00:25:23.919 i know that there are some a lot 00:25:23.919 --> 00:25:29.119 of the lyrics i really like i really like the your eyes say yes but you don't 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:34.039 say don't say yes yeah because you know you you that common phrase is like your 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:41.199 eyes say yes but your ankles say no way buddy uh but having that kind of inversion of that. 00:25:41.379 --> 00:25:41.519 Yeah. 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.739 But I don't really know. I listened to this song like four or five times reading 00:25:45.739 --> 00:25:48.539 the lyrics trying to be like, what is this about? 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:53.139 Because the vibes that I was getting, it was like, this could be a song about, 00:25:53.139 --> 00:25:56.039 about, um, falling in love young. 00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:59.699 You know, there's nothing that says there's an age difference in the song, but. 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:00.179 Sure. 00:26:00.579 --> 00:26:03.739 I don't know. I was hoping that you might have some insight for me on this. 00:26:03.739 --> 00:26:05.179 I do, I do. So. 00:26:06.174 --> 00:26:10.674 This is one where, because of the sensitivity of the lyrics, 00:26:10.794 --> 00:26:15.554 the band did not really ask Stevie to explain it at the time. 00:26:16.474 --> 00:26:21.134 Though, as described in Get Tusk, it did come out later what the song was about. 00:26:21.254 --> 00:26:25.814 So the song was about Stevie's relationship with Derek Taylor. 00:26:26.134 --> 00:26:31.974 He was the press officer for the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Birds, and some other folks. 00:26:32.194 --> 00:26:40.774 And he was indeed much older than her. And so I think that's probably where 00:26:40.774 --> 00:26:44.994 most of that comes from, is that he was just significantly older. 00:26:46.694 --> 00:26:50.794 You could maybe add a reading of. 00:26:51.974 --> 00:26:59.754 Of maybe she's addressing Lindsay because they were like, I want to say like 00:26:59.754 --> 00:27:03.114 high school sweethearts, they they knew they were together for a long time. 00:27:03.114 --> 00:27:03.354 Yeah. 00:27:03.654 --> 00:27:07.314 Since they were children, though, maybe not 10 years old. 00:27:07.494 --> 00:27:07.694 Right. 00:27:08.394 --> 00:27:09.814 Um, cause it, I mean. 00:27:10.314 --> 00:27:14.534 The, the read, I mean, I don't really know, but the read that I get when I hear 00:27:14.534 --> 00:27:19.074 this is that it's almost like a song about somebody who is younger that is dating 00:27:19.074 --> 00:27:23.234 somebody older, but who wants to do that. 00:27:23.414 --> 00:27:26.274 And that like, then as the song goes on, we kind of get into the second love 00:27:26.274 --> 00:27:30.634 you from afar stuff where it's almost like, well, this was something that happened 00:27:30.634 --> 00:27:36.574 and everybody was on board with it, but it was so tumultuous that it ended up kind of falling apart. 00:27:36.574 --> 00:27:41.154 And that the singer has made their peace with that sort of thing. 00:27:41.274 --> 00:27:43.894 And I don't know if that's right, 00:27:43.954 --> 00:27:47.934 but that was just what I got after listening to it a bunch of times. 00:27:48.194 --> 00:27:55.094 Yeah. I think the other thing that I picked up is that I think if you were to 00:27:55.094 --> 00:28:00.834 think of a time and place for the lyrics, I believe that they're meant to represent 00:28:00.834 --> 00:28:02.514 maybe their last day together. 00:28:02.714 --> 00:28:03.134 Yeah. 00:28:04.883 --> 00:28:09.003 And I think you see that in some of the lyrics, right? You say it'll be harder 00:28:09.003 --> 00:28:11.643 in the morning. I wait for you to say just go. 00:28:12.803 --> 00:28:19.363 Like, those are very much like the morning after sort of messages. 00:28:20.923 --> 00:28:23.843 I think it's interesting because I do think that there's just like, 00:28:23.983 --> 00:28:30.043 there's like four lines in here that if you changed them would make this an entirely different. 00:28:30.043 --> 00:28:33.743 Like the, the, the very specific age call out at the beginning, 00:28:33.743 --> 00:28:38.743 I think does some strange, like it kind of, it, it points the song in a different 00:28:38.743 --> 00:28:41.043 direction that I think, um, 00:28:41.483 --> 00:28:45.663 a lot of the CB songs are a little bit more poetic and nebulous and stuff, 00:28:45.743 --> 00:28:49.923 but I think that kind of like having that lyric in there, I don't know. 00:28:49.923 --> 00:28:53.803 And it could just be like we were talking about the time difference of different 00:28:53.803 --> 00:28:55.823 social mores and stuff like that. 00:28:55.923 --> 00:28:56.043 Yeah. 00:28:56.323 --> 00:29:01.643 That it could just be that it comes off differently to me here in 2025 than it did when it came out. 00:29:01.863 --> 00:29:07.183 Absolutely. And I think we talked about this a little bit where Stevie's, 00:29:07.283 --> 00:29:10.663 the writing of Stevie's songs is intentionally. 00:29:14.563 --> 00:29:15.123 There's an. 00:29:16.163 --> 00:29:17.043 Ethereal airy. 00:29:18.403 --> 00:29:20.043 She writes about a lot of things. 00:29:20.203 --> 00:29:20.303 Right. 00:29:20.443 --> 00:29:23.183 She writes about a lot of things. And I think there's even a word where you 00:29:23.183 --> 00:29:25.743 can read Beautiful Child similarly 00:29:25.743 --> 00:29:30.863 to Sarah of like, okay, maybe this is also about like a lost child. 00:29:32.703 --> 00:29:33.103 And... 00:29:35.211 --> 00:29:38.511 And I'm putting some silence there. 00:29:38.951 --> 00:29:49.991 Apparently, when UNESCO, UNESCO and UNICEF in 1979, they called it the year 00:29:49.991 --> 00:29:53.571 of the child or the year of the international year of the child or something. 00:29:53.871 --> 00:29:54.211 Interesting. Okay. 00:29:54.211 --> 00:30:03.231 And apparently Stevie donated the royalties of this song to that foundation, to that campaign. 00:30:03.471 --> 00:30:13.631 And so I don't think you're far afield to say that it also might actually just be about a child, 00:30:13.811 --> 00:30:19.731 about losing a child or a child disappearing from your life. 00:30:22.071 --> 00:30:23.191 It's also, you know. 00:30:23.291 --> 00:30:23.771 It's many things. 00:30:23.771 --> 00:30:27.871 I've thought about this too, where like, um, this whole album, 00:30:27.991 --> 00:30:31.571 a lot of the songs, uh, like we talked about this when we, 00:30:31.951 --> 00:30:37.131 with going from what makes you think you're the one to storms where like the 00:30:37.131 --> 00:30:40.551 previous song will prime you in a way. 00:30:40.871 --> 00:30:45.351 And I think that there's a good possibility. I actually thought about just rearranging 00:30:45.351 --> 00:30:48.271 my little track list and listening, trying to listen to a song without listening 00:30:48.271 --> 00:30:51.791 to honey high first, because that's such a romantic song. 00:30:51.791 --> 00:30:55.791 And then it comes right into this that really starts out with that lyric that 00:30:55.791 --> 00:31:00.271 it was hard for me to see this as anything but a song about a romance. 00:31:01.131 --> 00:31:04.431 And it's very possible that it's just that's just happening because my brain 00:31:04.431 --> 00:31:08.351 is trying to make these sides into a narrative or a story. Yeah. 00:31:08.491 --> 00:31:10.671 Or the thing before has me thinking about that. 00:31:11.011 --> 00:31:17.351 And I think we talked about it briefly, but that tonal whiplash was intentional 00:31:17.351 --> 00:31:21.811 that at least at least on a high level, 00:31:21.951 --> 00:31:28.651 the idea of creating contrast between these these wildly different sounding songs, 00:31:28.911 --> 00:31:33.371 wildly different messaging of songs that that was intentional. 00:31:33.751 --> 00:31:33.871 Yeah. 00:31:35.675 --> 00:31:42.955 But I think the intentionality was as the opposite, right? 00:31:43.035 --> 00:31:48.515 I think it was intentional to make a bit of chaos and mess, not necessarily 00:31:48.515 --> 00:31:54.175 to say, this is the best version of our story that is from here to here to here to here to here. 00:31:54.295 --> 00:31:54.455 Yeah. 00:31:54.535 --> 00:31:58.415 It's just, everyone thinks we're going to go here, so we're going to zag on them. 00:31:58.555 --> 00:31:58.775 Right. 00:31:58.895 --> 00:31:59.155 You know? 00:31:59.355 --> 00:32:01.735 Yeah. The contrast. 00:32:02.135 --> 00:32:08.615 Yeah. Well, before I guess let's get into the alternate beautiful child. Okay. 00:32:09.315 --> 00:32:15.575 But I will say a few things before it. Similar to some of the other alternates that we've had. 00:32:15.755 --> 00:32:17.815 This one was also previously released. 00:32:18.055 --> 00:32:25.795 And so I'm just putting an asterisk here on what the like providence of this take might be. 00:32:25.935 --> 00:32:30.315 Only only because I think there's a world where they took. I think what we're 00:32:30.315 --> 00:32:34.175 going to listen to is a slightly earlier take or a slightly earlier mix of this. 00:32:37.395 --> 00:32:44.075 And I don't know how much from the initial time it was re-released to this current 00:32:44.075 --> 00:32:51.035 re-release for The Alternate Tusk if it was what that process looked like, right? 00:32:51.255 --> 00:32:53.195 Oh, okay. What happened between the two? 00:32:53.195 --> 00:32:56.795 Right. You know, I mean, granted, I don't know enough about the alternate test 00:32:56.795 --> 00:32:59.835 to say this was the philosophy of this recording either. 00:32:59.975 --> 00:33:00.115 Right. 00:33:00.735 --> 00:33:03.475 Or to say that that would be different than what they did with Beautiful Child. 00:33:03.675 --> 00:33:07.115 Anyway, this version makes me mad. 00:33:07.495 --> 00:33:07.935 Okay. 00:33:08.055 --> 00:33:09.655 This version makes me really mad. 00:33:10.195 --> 00:33:11.375 Makes you drive even faster. 00:33:11.615 --> 00:33:15.655 I drive 105 miles per hour. Here is the alternate Beautiful Child. 00:38:56.663 --> 00:39:00.783 It's like an experience. I'm chiming out over here. 00:39:01.883 --> 00:39:03.623 I thought this was the one that made you mad. 00:39:03.883 --> 00:39:05.083 It does make me mad. 00:39:05.203 --> 00:39:05.343 Yeah. 00:39:06.143 --> 00:39:13.023 I've not approached the alternate versions in a sense of you took this from me. 00:39:13.163 --> 00:39:17.223 At no point during the other 19 songs do I listen to the alternate task and 00:39:17.223 --> 00:39:19.843 go like, we were robbed of this. 00:39:19.963 --> 00:39:22.803 You robbed us of the good version of Sarah. 00:39:22.803 --> 00:39:28.063 Like, I generally want to be like, this is what they ended up with. 00:39:28.223 --> 00:39:32.303 These were the decisions, but this alternate version of Beautiful Child with 00:39:32.303 --> 00:39:37.783 the electric guitars, with just the really soft kick drum, no snare at all. 00:39:37.783 --> 00:39:41.783 Yeah i i it's 00:39:41.783 --> 00:39:44.763 not as shined up as the the 00:39:44.763 --> 00:39:47.923 studio version is but the emotion 00:39:47.923 --> 00:39:51.623 and the drama in this version are just like 00:39:51.623 --> 00:39:56.463 a different like a completely different galaxy compared 00:39:56.463 --> 00:40:01.043 to the original take it's just even 00:40:01.043 --> 00:40:04.583 the vocals like that is i'm pretty sure that's almost the 00:40:04.583 --> 00:40:07.503 entire like vocal take from the 00:40:07.503 --> 00:40:10.403 studio version yeah like the only like the background vocals are 00:40:10.403 --> 00:40:13.283 different some of the vocals that she doesn't hear 00:40:13.283 --> 00:40:16.223 are a little different but generally that's the take that they use yeah 00:40:16.223 --> 00:40:19.183 and um i think 00:40:19.183 --> 00:40:25.603 it's one where addition by subtraction did not work um compared to pretty much 00:40:25.603 --> 00:40:29.243 any of the other examples on this album and that's what makes me mad is the 00:40:29.243 --> 00:40:38.323 sense that like damn you almost hit a perfect game on some level but you made me see your missteps. 00:40:39.003 --> 00:40:40.863 Uh i was very confused. 00:40:40.863 --> 00:40:43.563 Because when you told me that this version made you mad i. 00:40:43.563 --> 00:40:47.603 Thought it was because it was so terrible so i was listening to it i was like i kind of like. 00:40:47.603 --> 00:40:54.083 The way the guitar kind of comes in like it's good like that there's very little 00:40:54.083 --> 00:41:00.523 electric guitar in the studio version and it's pulling its weight and then summon this version. 00:41:00.623 --> 00:41:00.763 Yep. 00:41:01.083 --> 00:41:05.503 You know, it's not as poppy. It's not as poppy. I'll give it. 00:41:05.583 --> 00:41:09.883 It's not as poppy of an arrangement as the studio version, but God, like... 00:41:10.707 --> 00:41:14.107 I think it's, I don't know. I think it's one guitar track away from being like 00:41:14.107 --> 00:41:17.567 an 80s ballad, like the, you know, the. 00:41:17.647 --> 00:41:18.447 Some power chords. 00:41:18.627 --> 00:41:24.067 Right. Well, though, like the, like every rose has its thorn. 00:41:24.387 --> 00:41:24.447 Right? 00:41:24.747 --> 00:41:28.847 Like that electric guitar really makes it sound a lot more like an 80s song 00:41:28.847 --> 00:41:30.767 than something from before. 00:41:31.727 --> 00:41:36.347 Um no i i really i do think i like that version better the only thing is i i 00:41:36.347 --> 00:41:40.307 didn't because we didn't get that far down the lyrics i'd forgotten that there's 00:41:40.307 --> 00:41:46.567 one lyric in this that like there's one line in this thing that drives me up the damn wall is. 00:41:46.567 --> 00:41:48.167 It too trusting yes but then women usually. 00:41:48.167 --> 00:41:51.427 Are yes there are like three more words in that in that 00:41:51.427 --> 00:41:54.767 line than there need to be and it makes it really awkward where 00:41:54.767 --> 00:41:58.007 it has to all be kind of women usually are 00:41:58.007 --> 00:42:01.207 like yeah you know why is there yes too trusting 00:42:01.207 --> 00:42:04.307 but women usually are like that's 00:42:04.307 --> 00:42:07.427 a lot shorter but then women usually 00:42:07.427 --> 00:42:10.647 are and then that too trusting yes but then women 00:42:10.647 --> 00:42:16.507 i'm like no just trim it down because and it would it it wouldn't stick out 00:42:16.507 --> 00:42:20.667 in my mind except for the fact that like in a in a song where i have a hard 00:42:20.667 --> 00:42:25.147 time hearing lyrics a lot of times and i can make out just about every lyric 00:42:25.147 --> 00:42:29.647 to this song but that is like a run on sentence in the middle of a very interesting yes. 00:42:29.647 --> 00:42:34.367 But yeah it is it does almost have like a musical vibe cadence. 00:42:34.367 --> 00:42:37.587 Like too trusting yes well like you 00:42:37.587 --> 00:42:43.367 can a little expository like every line kind of is its own thing so i understand 00:42:43.367 --> 00:42:46.227 why you wouldn't want to break it into two lines it should be broken into two 00:42:46.227 --> 00:42:50.307 lines or they should cut out two or three of those words and just squeeze it 00:42:50.307 --> 00:42:55.167 together a little bit because out of all the lyrics here you know every line is like, 00:42:55.787 --> 00:42:57.827 very much its own thing. It's all out. 00:42:57.907 --> 00:43:01.627 It's all stark. You can hear it. You can get it. You know what the idea is. 00:43:01.747 --> 00:43:10.627 But that one line just like, I don't know, it bugs me grammatically and lyrically and musically. 00:43:11.787 --> 00:43:14.787 If anything, I think I, yeah, I... 00:43:16.074 --> 00:43:19.714 I do feel a little bit of a twinge with that line because it does feel, 00:43:19.914 --> 00:43:23.094 again, I think it's comforative sensibilities. 00:43:23.274 --> 00:43:23.394 Yeah. 00:43:23.634 --> 00:43:29.734 Like, I would probably not want to say women are too trusting in the lyrics of a song. 00:43:29.734 --> 00:43:32.454 Well, then there's that part of it, too. Yes. 00:43:33.174 --> 00:43:42.274 Um but i um some of the other stuff here on the alternate is by not having that snare. 00:43:44.674 --> 00:43:47.754 Um going back and listening to the studio version 00:43:47.754 --> 00:43:51.474 makes you realize how forward that snare is and 00:43:51.474 --> 00:43:54.954 uh and i think it also creates more 00:43:54.954 --> 00:43:58.014 space for the bass by having less electric guitar 00:43:58.014 --> 00:44:00.714 it's another kind of song where the bass is doing a lot 00:44:00.714 --> 00:44:04.834 of work yeah um for what 00:44:04.834 --> 00:44:09.574 is another song where it kind of doesn't change the it 00:44:09.574 --> 00:44:12.494 feels like it doesn't like the lyrics change like there's enough 00:44:12.494 --> 00:44:15.154 structural change between okay this is a verse and a 00:44:15.154 --> 00:44:18.434 chorus we've got a verse and like a chorus a and a chorus b like okay 00:44:18.434 --> 00:44:21.674 there's a lot changing but at 00:44:21.674 --> 00:44:24.474 the same time musically we're kind of 00:44:24.474 --> 00:44:27.414 keep bouncing around what feels 00:44:27.414 --> 00:44:30.094 like some of this just the same couple of chords over and over 00:44:30.094 --> 00:44:33.254 again um which we'll fucking get into 00:44:33.254 --> 00:44:38.334 next with walk up in line too um and 00:44:38.334 --> 00:44:41.754 i also thought it was interesting that uh this 00:44:41.754 --> 00:44:51.574 has basically the final vocal take um because it's good in fact i I think part 00:44:51.574 --> 00:44:59.774 of what makes me think that this is an early take of the final cut is that the piano, 00:45:00.074 --> 00:45:05.714 right in the beginning, there's that bit where the piano is like a little late on a note. 00:45:06.254 --> 00:45:08.134 And it does that in this one, too. 00:45:09.054 --> 00:45:12.334 And there would be another one of these things where the piano track kind of 00:45:12.334 --> 00:45:15.374 got baked into the to the to the hole. 00:45:15.614 --> 00:45:18.774 Or did that mistake get baked in? 00:45:19.534 --> 00:45:22.454 There are other songs on tusk where there are 00:45:22.454 --> 00:45:25.794 bits that seem like a mistake are completely like 00:45:25.794 --> 00:45:28.534 in uh it's not that funny right we talked about 00:45:28.534 --> 00:45:31.374 the symbol the muting at the end of 00:45:31.374 --> 00:45:35.454 right of of not that funny and you 00:45:35.454 --> 00:45:38.514 know that sounds different in those two takes 00:45:38.514 --> 00:45:42.094 which to me signals that that's intentional 00:45:42.094 --> 00:45:45.094 that's written into the song right play a crash and 00:45:45.094 --> 00:45:49.294 then mute the middle love it for a brief period and 00:45:49.294 --> 00:45:54.154 and maybe that's just what it is here is like kind of lag on that seventh note 00:45:54.154 --> 00:46:00.054 maybe just like actually make it seem like oh it you know yeah um it's not perfect 00:46:00.054 --> 00:46:07.054 it's imperfect okay uh any other thoughts here on beautiful child the alternate. 00:46:08.583 --> 00:46:14.323 Um, I, there's a, something that I've felt a lot of times and I feel, uh, 00:46:14.563 --> 00:46:20.543 I feel it a lot on this alternate take, uh, which is that I sometimes wish that 00:46:20.543 --> 00:46:25.483 there was a version that had kind of even more instrumentation where we kind of, 00:46:25.683 --> 00:46:30.163 there, there's a, there's an idea in here about using some of the stripped down 00:46:30.163 --> 00:46:33.043 instrumentation to really like punctuate some of the lyrics. 00:46:33.043 --> 00:46:38.403 And I think that sometimes with Stevie songs, I can get, they can become a little 00:46:38.403 --> 00:46:41.703 monotonous because they're long and they're there. 00:46:41.843 --> 00:46:44.643 You got to really like Stevie Nicks for a lot of these songs. 00:46:44.823 --> 00:46:47.083 And so I do appreciate that electric guitar. 00:46:47.283 --> 00:46:50.603 And I kind of wish that we would see more of that, of like the rest of the band 00:46:50.603 --> 00:46:55.923 getting to to kind of help out, you know, we express some emotions in the background 00:46:55.923 --> 00:46:57.023 while these things are happening. 00:46:57.103 --> 00:47:02.223 I think I made a similar was the one about the underbook of the water imagery. 00:47:02.223 --> 00:47:03.443 Oh, Never Make Me Cry. 00:47:03.883 --> 00:47:08.043 Yeah, well, thinking about having more, you know, a less stripped down version 00:47:08.043 --> 00:47:09.923 that had a little bit more production. 00:47:10.123 --> 00:47:13.623 But then, again, I think that that's, I mean, you know, that's just my personal 00:47:13.623 --> 00:47:15.723 taste wish casting kind of stuff. 00:47:16.703 --> 00:47:24.103 But, I mean, that's probably some amount of reaction that people had listening to the original. 00:47:24.263 --> 00:47:28.343 It's like, why is this so weird? Couldn't you have just made a regular rock song? 00:47:28.503 --> 00:47:28.983 Right, right. 00:47:30.403 --> 00:47:36.903 All right, well, let's jump into another track here. Why don't we go to Walk It In Line, huh? 00:47:37.343 --> 00:47:39.643 This is another Lindsey Buckingham song. Here we go. 00:49:10.441 --> 00:49:15.081 All right, that's Walk a Thin Line. How do you feel about Walk a Thin Line? 00:49:15.201 --> 00:49:19.041 Oh, poor Lindsay. Poor Lindsay. He's out there all alone. He's got to walk that line. 00:49:19.601 --> 00:49:23.501 Nobody's listening. No one wants to listen to his wisdom. It's not. 00:49:25.241 --> 00:49:29.681 He's not subtle. I like Lindsay, but his songwriting is a little flat. 00:49:29.861 --> 00:49:32.981 I agree. I like this song. 00:49:33.141 --> 00:49:39.981 I do. It's very, it's like I like it, but I mean, it's like it does the, 00:49:40.441 --> 00:49:45.101 I like it, but there's nothing too notable about it. There's nothing that really stands out. 00:49:45.281 --> 00:49:51.101 It doesn't seem very experimental. It just seems like a very kind of basic song. The lyrics are basic. 00:49:51.601 --> 00:49:55.081 The instrumentation is very, I don't know, just regular. 00:49:55.481 --> 00:50:00.241 Like, I liked it, and I kept coming back to it trying to figure out if the only 00:50:00.241 --> 00:50:03.081 reason I liked it was because I just didn't have anything bad to say about it. 00:50:03.621 --> 00:50:06.561 Like, there's a difference between being inoffensive and actually being, 00:50:06.561 --> 00:50:08.781 like, you know, excited about a thing. 00:50:08.781 --> 00:50:13.341 It feels kind of like the opposite of Save Me a Place from Side A, 00:50:13.601 --> 00:50:20.221 where Save Me a Place is also kind of slow and tender and accompanied with this 00:50:20.221 --> 00:50:25.401 big vocal dubbing of multiple voices in the chorus, 00:50:25.621 --> 00:50:30.081 kind of giving this big pop. 00:50:30.081 --> 00:50:33.161 Where here on Walk a Thin Line, 00:50:34.621 --> 00:50:39.381 similarly, you know, it goes from one voices to many in a really interesting, 00:50:39.581 --> 00:50:47.401 cool interplay, especially on that, like, I walk a thin line, line. And, 00:50:48.515 --> 00:50:53.195 Because it sounds softer, it's not. 00:50:54.715 --> 00:51:01.075 I mean, for as like kind of obtuse as the song is, Save Me a Place is even more obtuse. 00:51:02.515 --> 00:51:08.055 And I think in that case, like the sentimentality to me plays a little stronger 00:51:08.055 --> 00:51:12.495 on Save Me a Place versus Walk a Thin Line, even though they both are impressive, 00:51:12.955 --> 00:51:16.555 slower Lindsay songs with impressive tracked vocals. 00:51:17.255 --> 00:51:21.475 I mean, I will say that this one, again, I don't want to repeat myself too much, 00:51:21.595 --> 00:51:26.375 but this is another one where it's just like, there's this kind of verse cadence 00:51:26.375 --> 00:51:29.975 and it's repeated five times and then the song is over. 00:51:30.135 --> 00:51:33.195 There's not like a appealing guitar solo. There's not even like, 00:51:33.295 --> 00:51:37.055 I think it would have been nice to have seen like a key change to emphasize 00:51:37.055 --> 00:51:39.255 like one of these verses or just, 00:51:39.395 --> 00:51:43.695 it's such a basic song that it's like, boy, put some gravy on this thing, 00:51:43.895 --> 00:51:45.215 like put some pepper on there. 00:51:45.215 --> 00:51:48.295 They talk about that in the book too of like 00:51:48.295 --> 00:51:51.635 it's just kind of two chords back and forth and we 00:51:51.635 --> 00:51:55.675 try you know we zhuzhed it up and we did all the vocal harmony interplays um 00:51:55.675 --> 00:52:03.155 uh who is this ken uh talks about this initially um it had started a little 00:52:03.155 --> 00:52:09.095 bit as a faster demo probably a little over 120 bpm that's always. 00:52:09.095 --> 00:52:10.655 70 seconds long. 00:52:10.655 --> 00:52:14.315 So they slowed it down to about 69 bpm 00:52:14.315 --> 00:52:17.535 sure uh ken described it as a dreamy 00:52:17.535 --> 00:52:20.195 trance-like stoner ballad oh that 00:52:20.195 --> 00:52:23.875 makes a lot of sense yeah i do and i think 00:52:23.875 --> 00:52:28.815 we talked last time about the beach boys and their um smile album i believe 00:52:28.815 --> 00:52:33.015 smile is a big influence here on this i can see it um one of the stories about 00:52:33.015 --> 00:52:40.315 i believe it's this track is the the drumming on it this is this is one this 00:52:40.315 --> 00:52:41.775 is a drumming story this is yay, 00:52:44.155 --> 00:52:47.515 you want to let's let's listen back in just for another brief second here of 00:52:47.515 --> 00:52:49.375 the drums of walk a thin line, 00:53:16.284 --> 00:53:17.004 Did you catch it? 00:53:17.384 --> 00:53:18.404 I don't know that I did. 00:53:20.424 --> 00:53:23.324 Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it's kind of a Sarah situation. 00:53:25.304 --> 00:53:31.704 So Lindsay held a lot of control over his songs, would go and record, 00:53:31.924 --> 00:53:33.164 do a lot of recordings at his home. 00:53:33.384 --> 00:53:37.004 Some of the final tracks on Tusk are just straight recordings from Lindsay's home. 00:53:38.104 --> 00:53:46.544 Um this song uh mick fleetwood was very annoyed at the drumming that lindsey 00:53:46.544 --> 00:53:53.364 did on the song oh because he was really obsessed with this kind of military 00:53:53.364 --> 00:53:55.564 style march drum pattern that he learned, 00:53:58.104 --> 00:53:59.484 when i. 00:53:59.484 --> 00:54:04.024 When i took drum lessons like we started with like this would be the sort of 00:54:04.024 --> 00:54:08.324 thing that you would practice to like in year one because it's so just like 00:54:08.324 --> 00:54:12.784 and it just it's very basic it's the sort of. 00:54:12.784 --> 00:54:13.144 Thing that. 00:54:13.144 --> 00:54:15.804 I think anybody that's starting out on trap kit could be able to do. 00:54:15.804 --> 00:54:23.004 But that that fill that is in in this whole thing i think lindsey was really into that fill and, 00:54:24.564 --> 00:54:28.144 liked his drumming and mick 00:54:28.144 --> 00:54:31.824 didn't like it and so the uh this 00:54:31.824 --> 00:54:35.004 is not actually covered in get tusked but is part 00:54:35.004 --> 00:54:38.404 of the story of this so i don't know if this comes from mick's biography 00:54:38.404 --> 00:54:41.164 um from the 80s which i skimmed through but 00:54:41.164 --> 00:54:45.264 i didn't actually look into for this podcast um but 00:54:45.264 --> 00:54:50.824 uh mick did not like how much um lindsey's drum playing was like out of time 00:54:50.824 --> 00:54:55.864 and said like hey if we put this out it's gonna make me look bad yeah people 00:54:55.864 --> 00:55:01.804 are gonna think i did the drumming right so the drums on And this studio track are actually doubled. 00:55:02.224 --> 00:55:03.284 One is Lindsay. 00:55:03.544 --> 00:55:03.864 Oh. 00:55:04.164 --> 00:55:05.224 One is Mick. 00:55:05.484 --> 00:55:05.724 Okay. 00:55:05.884 --> 00:55:07.364 Playing the fixed drums. 00:55:07.824 --> 00:55:13.184 Okay. It works. There's doubled? Okay. Listen again. Yeah, yeah. 00:55:13.184 --> 00:55:14.784 We'll go back and listen to that same thing. 00:55:14.924 --> 00:55:15.664 Let me just see here. 00:55:18.764 --> 00:55:19.664 Left and right. 00:55:45.538 --> 00:55:47.138 Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. 00:55:47.598 --> 00:55:48.098 Left and right. 00:55:48.338 --> 00:55:48.518 Yeah. 00:55:48.638 --> 00:55:50.378 No, just like the Sarah pianos. Actually. 00:55:50.398 --> 00:55:55.098 I think that, I think that the reason it didn't stand out is because when you 00:55:55.098 --> 00:55:58.698 do that kind of double up, what it just sounds like is it sounds a little echoey, right? 00:55:58.738 --> 00:56:01.018 When you have two tracks that are similar right on top of each other, 00:56:01.138 --> 00:56:04.478 it can just make it sound like it's in, it was recorded in a larger room, 00:56:04.898 --> 00:56:07.298 you know? Uh, so I wasn't getting that at first. 00:56:07.438 --> 00:56:10.818 But, but you listen closely and they're not the same. They're not the same recording. 00:56:11.158 --> 00:56:16.958 Um, well, I don't know. So I've maintained through this entire project that 00:56:16.958 --> 00:56:21.718 I think that I don't know what Mick Fleetwood and John McVie did to be relegated 00:56:21.718 --> 00:56:24.658 to these studio musicians for a lot of this album. 00:56:24.898 --> 00:56:31.178 Like, I was so happy and tusked to hear Mick Fleetwood just get to go crazy on the drums. 00:56:31.578 --> 00:56:34.718 Like, wow. Okay. 00:56:35.118 --> 00:56:35.418 Yeah. 00:56:35.818 --> 00:56:35.998 Wow. 00:56:36.218 --> 00:56:36.598 Yeah. 00:56:36.898 --> 00:56:40.878 Lindsay, come on. And you get, if you want to, you know, sounds like people 00:56:40.878 --> 00:56:43.558 wanted to walk that thin line with you, Lindsay, and that you didn't want to. 00:56:43.838 --> 00:56:48.598 Well, before we get into the alternate for walk a thin line, just briefly. 00:56:48.818 --> 00:56:53.938 So I guess they tracked a version of walk a thin line. And then over a period 00:56:53.938 --> 00:56:58.998 of months, Lindsay would go in and overdub more and more into it. 00:56:59.158 --> 00:57:02.518 He would go and add something or replace a track. 00:57:02.518 --> 00:57:05.818 Um so there's some talk of like the 00:57:05.818 --> 00:57:08.918 the the version that we listen to the studio version doesn't 00:57:08.918 --> 00:57:13.558 have any hi-hats um it's again another kind of kick and snare as far as the 00:57:13.558 --> 00:57:18.198 drumming goes um there's some instances where like acoustic guitar has been 00:57:18.198 --> 00:57:23.758 put in to kind of replace the hi-hat um and so what we'll get here is a little 00:57:23.758 --> 00:57:28.598 truer to an i guess an early version of this slower, 00:57:29.018 --> 00:57:33.478 the still, you know, pre-slowdown, or post-slowdown walk-out-thin line. 00:57:33.618 --> 00:57:33.798 Okay. 00:57:34.098 --> 00:57:36.698 All right, here we go. The alternate. Walk-out-thin line. 01:00:57.871 --> 01:01:01.771 The alternate walk a thin line wow very different 01:01:01.771 --> 01:01:05.831 yeah um there uh i 01:01:05.831 --> 01:01:09.051 talked a bit just before about that a lot of this got overdubbed 01:01:09.051 --> 01:01:12.311 um and a lot of what's on here uh 01:01:12.311 --> 01:01:15.171 is what got overdubbed things like the toy piano in 01:01:15.171 --> 01:01:18.431 the second half okay the uh the hi-hat the 01:01:18.431 --> 01:01:25.011 rhythm guitar um a lot of pieces from this to the studio album kind of ship 01:01:25.011 --> 01:01:29.971 a theseist got changed right um and then of course all those backing backing 01:01:29.971 --> 01:01:35.671 vocals and interplay is not here yeah um how do you feel about this alternate version um. 01:01:35.671 --> 01:01:39.531 I love it when we were able to get to this point on this. 01:01:39.531 --> 01:01:40.331 Podcast where. 01:01:40.331 --> 01:01:45.631 Uh i i think i like the vocal track from the studio album better i don't like 01:01:45.631 --> 01:01:49.971 it being it's a little more ethereal here i think i like it being a little bit 01:01:49.971 --> 01:01:52.891 more grounded um but musically, 01:01:53.531 --> 01:01:55.331 uh i love this this is. 01:01:55.331 --> 01:01:55.951 What like. 01:01:55.951 --> 01:01:57.051 I'm looking for more. 01:01:57.051 --> 01:01:58.891 Really you know uh. 01:01:58.891 --> 01:02:05.851 I i did want to ask do we know if these are lindsey drums are these mick drums. 01:02:05.851 --> 01:02:09.931 That's a good question i would because. 01:02:09.931 --> 01:02:13.851 There's a lot of interesting stuff going on with the drums i mean the most of 01:02:13.851 --> 01:02:19.411 the hi-hat like it's in the right channel uh there's a lot of times where the 01:02:19.411 --> 01:02:24.971 hi-hat is being dropped like for a beat there's points where it's being opened and then closed. 01:02:24.971 --> 01:02:25.631 There's points. 01:02:25.631 --> 01:02:28.151 We're going to like a ride cymbal or something like that for. 01:02:28.151 --> 01:02:28.631 Like two. 01:02:28.631 --> 01:02:33.111 Beats and then back it sounds like we got brushes in play that are doing some 01:02:33.111 --> 01:02:36.631 of the i mean i don't know if that's the case or not but there's just a there 01:02:36.631 --> 01:02:37.951 was a lot more complexity. 01:02:37.951 --> 01:02:39.111 Yeah and. 01:02:39.111 --> 01:02:42.371 It's something that i've been yearning for is like if you're going to do something 01:02:42.371 --> 01:02:45.411 experimental wow this sounds like a ride on a ufo. 01:02:45.411 --> 01:02:46.751 Like give. 01:02:46.751 --> 01:02:47.351 Me the experiment. 01:02:47.351 --> 01:02:54.131 And so with this one i don't exactly know um because yeah this drum track, 01:02:55.671 --> 01:02:59.231 doesn't totally doesn't totally seem to follow the 01:02:59.231 --> 01:03:02.251 track on the studio album but this 01:03:02.251 --> 01:03:05.231 is also a way less compressed track i could 01:03:05.231 --> 01:03:08.311 totally see a world where if you especially with in 01:03:08.311 --> 01:03:11.431 a recording studio where you've got all of the different microphones micing 01:03:11.431 --> 01:03:14.291 a drum kit where you just took the 01:03:14.291 --> 01:03:17.491 drum and kick and then um you 01:03:17.491 --> 01:03:20.411 kind of went with the timing on those and maybe those 01:03:20.411 --> 01:03:25.311 were the sloppiness that we see in the studio album but again like you said 01:03:25.311 --> 01:03:30.491 there's a lot of technique in here that may have been mick so i don't i don't 01:03:30.491 --> 01:03:33.771 know the answer to that well but that it does it there are some things in there 01:03:33.771 --> 01:03:35.111 that do sound interesting like 01:03:35.111 --> 01:03:38.791 the hi-hat one One thing they talk about is that they would process... 01:03:40.122 --> 01:03:44.222 How they would process the vocal different tracks and i think what they did with a hi-hat. 01:03:45.742 --> 01:03:48.762 Is you it's just that hi-hat but you hear it 01:03:48.762 --> 01:03:52.142 have that um kind of not phasing 01:03:52.142 --> 01:03:55.342 but sort of this in and out effect um it 01:03:55.342 --> 01:03:58.162 sounds like the hi-hat is being fed through like 01:03:58.162 --> 01:04:01.462 a leslie speaker um if if your 01:04:01.462 --> 01:04:04.222 listeners are not aware a leslie speaker often used 01:04:04.222 --> 01:04:08.022 with an organ um like a hammond organ um 01:04:08.022 --> 01:04:10.782 it's a little speaker box that has a 01:04:10.782 --> 01:04:13.942 speaker in it but that speaker cone is on like 01:04:13.942 --> 01:04:19.502 a lazy susan it's on a rotating platform okay and it spins you turn it on and 01:04:19.502 --> 01:04:24.702 you run and it has to spin up and when it gets to speed it's all of the sound 01:04:24.702 --> 01:04:28.842 is coming out of that speaker but because it's changing direction and the microphone 01:04:28.842 --> 01:04:32.962 that's recording it is not you get this in and out um, 01:04:34.502 --> 01:04:41.262 hmm it's it's not phasing it's not doppler effect but you hear it kind of going 01:04:41.262 --> 01:04:47.722 the like like it's being swung around like on a rope almost like that's what 01:04:47.722 --> 01:04:51.562 that hi-hat sound is in this where it's like see. 01:04:51.562 --> 01:04:55.382 Now what i what i thought was it sounded like so it's interesting because there's 01:04:55.382 --> 01:04:56.542 a lot of different ways that you could take. 01:04:56.542 --> 01:04:57.002 This right. 01:04:57.002 --> 01:05:02.282 To me what it sounded like is is somebody hitting the hi-hat and then letting it open a little. 01:05:02.282 --> 01:05:02.562 Bit. 01:05:02.822 --> 01:05:05.602 Because when you have it clamped shut, it's a very tight sound. 01:05:05.722 --> 01:05:09.982 But you can just release it a little bit and get a little bit more of that, 01:05:10.622 --> 01:05:14.662 a little bit more of the dis-like part of it, as opposed to being a real quick 01:05:14.662 --> 01:05:18.622 snap and having it open and then close, which is why I was asking, 01:05:19.342 --> 01:05:25.982 there's a lot of this stuff that, in my mind, sounds like a jazz drummer doing 01:05:25.982 --> 01:05:29.382 interesting improvisational, not necessarily fills, 01:05:29.662 --> 01:05:34.822 but more like, you know, like I said, dropping things, switching for two beats 01:05:34.822 --> 01:05:36.462 to something else and then coming back. 01:05:36.662 --> 01:05:39.622 But that could also be what you were talking about, 01:05:40.182 --> 01:05:45.802 James Lindsay adding like track after track after track, 01:05:46.042 --> 01:05:52.482 like continuing to layer on individually recorded drum tracks that have been 01:05:52.482 --> 01:05:56.862 very specifically created to make that same style of effect so it's hard to 01:05:56.862 --> 01:05:58.002 say whether this is like a. 01:05:58.002 --> 01:06:02.802 Man or a machine that's like 01:06:02.802 --> 01:06:07.722 um to kind of go back to what you were talking about earlier that you prefer 01:06:07.722 --> 01:06:12.662 the i guess you know the instrumentation of this alternate version yeah more 01:06:12.662 --> 01:06:21.262 than the studio one um i i think i disagree there's something about the toy piano So... 01:06:23.064 --> 01:06:29.624 That I'm glad is not in the final studio mix. Like, I don't think I have anything against Toy Piano. 01:06:32.284 --> 01:06:38.684 But I think by this part of the album, even though it's not everywhere on here, 01:06:38.824 --> 01:06:40.684 I hear and I go like, oh, okay. 01:06:41.384 --> 01:06:48.064 I don't know. So after the kind of simplistic tracks on Honey High and Beautiful 01:06:48.064 --> 01:06:53.004 Child, and then given how interesting Tusk is, I think that it would have made 01:06:53.004 --> 01:06:54.544 for an interesting kind of transition up. 01:06:54.704 --> 01:07:00.124 We're moving between the kind of static or the kind of just basic arrangements 01:07:00.124 --> 01:07:04.364 in something a little bit more experimental than, OK, here's something that's very different. 01:07:07.024 --> 01:07:09.324 Hey, everyone, just a quick intermission and we'll get back to the music. 01:07:09.564 --> 01:07:13.064 Thanks for listening to Two Tusks. This mini-series was made possible by all 01:07:13.064 --> 01:07:16.904 of the support over at patreon.com slash lfgx. 01:07:17.064 --> 01:07:21.584 They got all of Two Tusks before anyone else with full song previews and enhanced audio quality. 01:07:21.764 --> 01:07:26.604 If you're interested in what's next, visit patreon.com slash lfgx. 01:07:27.064 --> 01:07:30.064 My name is Bryce Castillo. Check out the Marbles racing streams I do at the 01:07:30.064 --> 01:07:35.704 website marbles.win, or follow me on Twitch at brycas, B-R-Y-C-A-S, 01:07:35.844 --> 01:07:38.144 to join in on the fun every Thursday night. 01:07:38.544 --> 01:07:41.564 My co-host is Jeff S. Thank you to him for joining me, and please show him some 01:07:41.564 --> 01:07:45.664 love over on Rage Select on YouTube, where he's been covering new video game 01:07:45.664 --> 01:07:47.184 releases for over a decade. 01:07:47.424 --> 01:07:51.544 That's Rage Select on YouTube, or go to rageselect.com. You're listening to 01:07:51.544 --> 01:07:55.264 Two Tusks, hosted by Bryce C. and Jeff S., produced by Bryce Castillo. 01:07:55.644 --> 01:08:00.064 Fleetwood Mac's music, including Tusk Deluxe, The Dance, and Fleetwood Mac Live 01:08:00.064 --> 01:08:05.164 in Boston, are available everywhere from Warner Records. Now, back to the Tusks. 01:08:11.504 --> 01:08:17.924 All right, let's jump into song number four on Side D, the titular Tusk. 01:08:18.064 --> 01:08:18.404 Finally. 01:08:18.764 --> 01:08:19.624 Finally, we're here. 01:08:19.804 --> 01:08:20.144 Finally. 01:08:20.284 --> 01:08:25.124 It feels so weird talking about the song Tusk, 19 songs into Tusk. 01:08:25.164 --> 01:08:25.904 The title track? 01:08:26.064 --> 01:08:26.264 Yeah. 01:08:26.524 --> 01:08:29.584 Like one song from the end of the entire album. I know. 01:08:31.764 --> 01:08:34.764 Let's listen to the preview of Tusk because there's a lot to talk about Tusk. 01:08:34.824 --> 01:08:34.924 Sure. 01:11:42.729 --> 01:11:45.009 Okay. TUSK! 01:11:45.169 --> 01:11:45.769 TUSK! 01:11:46.409 --> 01:11:47.009 TUSK! 01:11:49.029 --> 01:11:53.229 It's wholly different than most everything else on the album. 01:11:53.349 --> 01:11:53.649 Absolutely. 01:11:54.449 --> 01:11:58.209 The very experimental song, TUSK. 01:11:58.389 --> 01:12:02.969 There's so many places to start, but I'd like to start on your impressions, 01:12:02.969 --> 01:12:09.329 because I have to imagine that if you listen to 18 of the songs on TUSK and 01:12:09.329 --> 01:12:13.369 then TUSK starts playing, you might go, what the fuck is this. 01:12:13.369 --> 01:12:17.349 Um yeah it 01:12:17.349 --> 01:12:20.829 it should come as no surprise that of these 01:12:20.829 --> 01:12:23.729 songs i don't know this this is 01:12:23.729 --> 01:12:28.769 definitely in like the top songs that i've heard on this album um it's definitely 01:12:28.769 --> 01:12:33.569 my favorite of this side okay it's what i've kind of wanted this entire time 01:12:33.569 --> 01:12:37.889 of something that's really out there it sounds completely different than everything 01:12:37.889 --> 01:12:41.989 else um more than anything i just to come to the end of the song. 01:12:42.009 --> 01:12:43.549 And I'm like, I want more of this. 01:12:43.669 --> 01:12:48.309 Like, I wish that there had been, there's been a longer song that it had a little bit more to it. 01:12:48.389 --> 01:12:52.129 Because after the drum solo, there's nothing. 01:12:52.549 --> 01:12:52.689 Yep. 01:12:53.149 --> 01:12:58.629 There's just shouting tusk and kind of jamming and some little vocal vamps and 01:12:58.629 --> 01:13:00.249 different like percussion additions. 01:13:00.529 --> 01:13:03.869 Like there's enough production-wise going on that from that point to the end 01:13:03.869 --> 01:13:08.029 of the song, like it's kind of changing and keeping things alive. 01:13:08.249 --> 01:13:09.909 But yeah, it's not like there's... 01:13:10.269 --> 01:13:11.749 A chorus to this fucking thing. 01:13:11.749 --> 01:13:12.509 Right is. 01:13:12.509 --> 01:13:13.209 That like what. 01:13:13.209 --> 01:13:16.029 It sounds like it's from a completely different band like it 01:13:16.029 --> 01:13:19.109 really does um it doesn't have any of the 01:13:19.109 --> 01:13:28.029 uh simple uh uh christine or lindsey kind of stuff and it's not lyrical like 01:13:28.029 --> 01:13:33.689 stevie song like it's it's very much a music forward track in a way that a lot 01:13:33.689 --> 01:13:38.609 of this has been lyrical focused and i think that's what i like so much about it. 01:13:38.689 --> 01:13:41.229 I love the, I love the drum solo of the marching band. 01:13:41.589 --> 01:13:45.069 You know, um, I love the fact that even before the marching band starts to come 01:13:45.069 --> 01:13:50.269 in, there's just like a, like a kind of a crowd noise behind the entire track 01:13:50.269 --> 01:13:56.129 that just makes it feel, I don't know, more like, like you're dirty and alive. 01:13:56.669 --> 01:14:00.429 You're filing into the arena and the gladiators are about to take their place. 01:14:00.589 --> 01:14:04.009 Right. It just, it just, it gives it an entirely different different tone. 01:14:04.009 --> 01:14:05.269 And i. 01:14:05.269 --> 01:14:06.269 Love it i love it. 01:14:06.269 --> 01:14:10.589 Um tusk is has 01:14:10.589 --> 01:14:13.629 a lot of interesting stories okay we'll start from where tusk 01:14:13.629 --> 01:14:16.949 starts which was on stage tusk 01:14:16.949 --> 01:14:21.029 actually started off as a stage riff so uh 01:14:21.029 --> 01:14:23.909 the touring element of fleetwood mac 01:14:23.909 --> 01:14:27.209 was uh it's kind 01:14:27.209 --> 01:14:30.589 of described as a paramilitary operation you get 01:14:30.589 --> 01:14:33.529 in get to the place we perform the songs and 01:14:33.529 --> 01:14:36.389 we go um you know fleetwood 01:14:36.389 --> 01:14:39.429 mac has been a band for a long time touring is something that they've done for 01:14:39.429 --> 01:14:46.389 a long time um and so uh that's that's part of it and to tell the to hear the 01:14:46.389 --> 01:14:50.789 story that occasionally in the few times where the band couldn't get a proper 01:14:50.789 --> 01:14:53.589 sound check in they would play a stage riff, 01:14:54.789 --> 01:14:59.409 as the audience was starting to come in or before the show would start. 01:14:59.589 --> 01:15:04.189 That way they could get levels and the stage riff that they would do, 01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:09.480 was dusk okay or was uh kind 01:15:09.480 --> 01:15:14.380 of a a drum a kind of a sure um 01:15:14.380 --> 01:15:18.600 and then a little bit of guitar strumming and so like in the original demo that 01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:22.720 they cut it really only just had the why don't you ask him if he's gonna stay 01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:27.100 or if he's going away line right and it would there wasn't even really the like 01:15:27.100 --> 01:15:32.280 big tusk moment it was just kind of that and then kind of that lindsey thing. 01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:39.600 And you're just kind of like, and you're just filling the words for something later. 01:15:40.500 --> 01:15:45.200 I mean, it does seem like a song, especially if you take the marching band aspect 01:15:45.200 --> 01:15:48.000 out of it, that could just go as long as you want it to. 01:15:48.240 --> 01:15:51.280 Right. Like it could just kind of keep repeating over and over again. 01:15:51.540 --> 01:15:59.300 If you listen to the on the re-release for Rumors, they're one of the discs is live, live tracks. 01:15:59.480 --> 01:16:02.700 And the intro to that, you can hear the stage riff. 01:16:04.320 --> 01:16:04.760 Just. 01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:06.900 A little it's still it doesn't sound like tusk. 01:16:06.900 --> 01:16:07.460 Yeah but. 01:16:07.460 --> 01:16:11.220 You hear that riff in this little like rock ditty rock jingle that they're doing. 01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.180 So that's. 01:16:12.180 --> 01:16:15.520 Kind of a funny uh funny little bit of providence there. 01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:19.020 Can i ask you a question about the song yes okay i don't know if you have any 01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:25.940 background information maybe uh i like um i like just screaming tusk but it 01:16:25.940 --> 01:16:30.440 also doesn't really have any context and it's also the name of the album and 01:16:30.440 --> 01:16:35.060 i'm curious if there's some kind of story about what Tusk, like, 01:16:35.280 --> 01:16:38.520 were we at the Natural History Museum and he had an idea for Fleetwood Mac album 01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:41.700 or go to the aquarium? Like, was there a... 01:16:44.400 --> 01:16:49.260 So, so, so they're, they're tracking the song and they're messing with the stage 01:16:49.260 --> 01:16:52.060 riff. It's still just kind of called stage riff at this point. 01:16:52.900 --> 01:16:58.720 And Lindsay realizes that every time he says Tusk, it gets a giggle out of the 01:16:58.720 --> 01:16:59.480 people who are listening. 01:16:59.660 --> 01:17:00.000 Okay. 01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.540 Because back then... 01:17:02.988 --> 01:17:13.448 Tusk, the word, tusk, the song, tusk, the meaning behind the song is penis. 01:17:17.828 --> 01:17:18.468 Okay. 01:17:18.908 --> 01:17:20.248 It's very penile. 01:17:20.628 --> 01:17:24.828 Good job, Lindsay. I would expect no less. 01:17:25.248 --> 01:17:27.808 And so, TURUS! 01:17:28.388 --> 01:17:31.528 I'm trying to think of a version of this song where it's just like... 01:17:37.688 --> 01:17:41.788 And so that uh with tusk 01:17:41.788 --> 01:17:44.708 becoming the title track it was 01:17:44.708 --> 01:17:49.528 uh it was slightly contentious choosing 01:17:49.528 --> 01:17:54.928 tusk to be the title track to be the image for the visual for it yeah um apparently 01:17:54.928 --> 01:17:59.988 before tusk was decided on the band had told stevie you were going to be on 01:17:59.988 --> 01:18:01.928 that cover they we fought we shot 01:18:01.928 --> 01:18:05.528 a photo of you like twirling a baton or something yeah it's gonna beat you, 01:18:06.048 --> 01:18:12.648 and then as they're making tusk the either the band or the record label hires someone to, 01:18:13.288 --> 01:18:16.728 like take photos and um there 01:18:16.728 --> 01:18:19.668 are multiple people working on photo photography projects around this album but 01:18:19.668 --> 01:18:22.308 one of them is to like take these photos for some sort 01:18:22.308 --> 01:18:25.308 of like african inspired like a collage of images 01:18:25.308 --> 01:18:28.728 which leads to the photo 01:18:28.728 --> 01:18:31.748 of scooter the dog biting at 01:18:31.748 --> 01:18:39.668 ken clay's leg his owner and uh that ended up being the task you can see his 01:18:39.668 --> 01:18:45.668 teeth bearing as he bites on the pant leg and uh bob was your uncle from that 01:18:45.668 --> 01:18:49.468 point on wow that decision uh, 01:18:51.073 --> 01:18:54.033 stevie was not a fan of oh i can imagine. 01:18:54.033 --> 01:18:58.293 That that most of the women in this band given the contentious nature of the 01:18:58.293 --> 01:19:02.133 songs and everything and then it's like you kind of have these back and forth 01:19:02.133 --> 01:19:05.713 so people kind of tell on their side of the story and expressing their emotions and then. 01:19:05.713 --> 01:19:06.053 They're just. 01:19:06.053 --> 01:19:08.133 Like i'm gonna call this album. 01:19:08.133 --> 01:19:12.933 Penis yeah we're gonna call this one penis and i. 01:19:12.933 --> 01:19:16.113 Can imagine everybody just going like oh god really. 01:19:16.113 --> 01:19:19.293 Yeah um stevie was very against 01:19:19.293 --> 01:19:23.153 it at the time um i don't 01:19:23.153 --> 01:19:26.173 know if this is apocryphal but i placed a 01:19:26.173 --> 01:19:30.533 curse on scooter oh no scooter or 01:19:30.533 --> 01:19:33.473 little scooter um and also 01:19:33.473 --> 01:19:36.113 ken posits a little more seriously in the 01:19:36.113 --> 01:19:39.513 book that probably the mixture of like of 01:19:39.513 --> 01:19:42.533 this action of calling the album tusk going with 01:19:42.533 --> 01:19:45.593 the picture of the dog alongside what happened 01:19:45.593 --> 01:19:49.193 at the end of rumors which was one of stevie's songs got cut 01:19:49.193 --> 01:19:51.853 at kind of the last second and it was a 01:19:51.853 --> 01:19:54.673 very meaningful song for her it comes back 01:19:54.673 --> 01:19:58.053 in their career later but um ken kind 01:19:58.053 --> 01:20:01.553 of posits that okay this is probably where stevie 01:20:01.553 --> 01:20:04.493 really kind of the straw 01:20:04.493 --> 01:20:07.333 broke the camel's back of like no i'm i'm going to really 01:20:07.333 --> 01:20:10.113 put in the effort to do a solo career right 01:20:10.113 --> 01:20:13.173 and then as we'll talk about later but that that 01:20:13.173 --> 01:20:16.013 would be pretty uh successful for stevie 01:20:16.013 --> 01:20:19.973 yeah where here um she's 01:20:19.973 --> 01:20:26.913 kind of noodling around and kind of stuck in this band where she uh seemingly 01:20:26.913 --> 01:20:31.673 was like not able to advocate for her songs in in a particularly healthy environment 01:20:31.673 --> 01:20:37.033 yeah um well that sucks it it does kind of suck um, 01:20:38.918 --> 01:20:41.258 But it's not Stevie's song, so we kind of have to move on. 01:20:41.378 --> 01:20:41.538 Sure. 01:20:42.538 --> 01:20:50.798 We talked a little bit, two episodes ago, about comedy and about smash cuts. 01:20:50.978 --> 01:20:51.058 Yeah. 01:20:51.118 --> 01:20:55.078 About the smash cut as a technique. And this is the track with the smash cut 01:20:55.078 --> 01:20:59.038 with the drum solo in the middle of it from Mick Fleetwood. 01:21:00.658 --> 01:21:06.038 This is where we get into the part where I am questioning a little bit of Gip Tusk to the book. 01:21:06.038 --> 01:21:08.878 Because it was written in the in the in the 01:21:08.878 --> 01:21:12.158 20s fuck me it was it was written after the 01:21:12.158 --> 01:21:15.178 pandemic hit um and so you 01:21:15.178 --> 01:21:18.198 know 40 some years after the events occurred 01:21:18.198 --> 01:21:22.438 so i i think that there are some pieces um that don't 01:21:22.438 --> 01:21:25.518 that may not track for example the story 01:21:25.518 --> 01:21:28.278 that i understood before reading get 01:21:28.278 --> 01:21:31.158 tussed was that that drum solo that they 01:21:31.158 --> 01:21:33.918 use from mick was a drum solo that was 01:21:33.918 --> 01:21:37.078 intended for a different song which is why this which is 01:21:37.078 --> 01:21:41.038 why it is at a different speed okay um but 01:21:41.038 --> 01:21:48.558 in get tusk ken uh says that uh that was all intentional and that that drum 01:21:48.558 --> 01:21:54.818 solo was like intentionally recorded at 167 bpm and then spliced in and then 01:21:54.818 --> 01:21:57.818 spliced in in intentionally for this track okay Okay. 01:21:58.618 --> 01:22:04.318 And there are a few other little things, little quibbles that just make, just remind me. 01:22:04.518 --> 01:22:07.578 And I guess it's worth reminding the audience that this is a prior, 01:22:07.738 --> 01:22:09.598 this is a quotation marks primary source. 01:22:09.718 --> 01:22:09.878 Sure. 01:22:09.998 --> 01:22:11.378 This is an air quotes primary source. 01:22:11.918 --> 01:22:14.918 So wait, I'm sorry. Do you, are you, are you saying that you don't quite believe 01:22:14.918 --> 01:22:16.618 that, that it was intentional? 01:22:16.858 --> 01:22:17.078 I don't. 01:22:18.056 --> 01:22:22.176 I just am not sure which story it is, whether it was a drum solo for another 01:22:22.176 --> 01:22:25.216 song or whether it was written for this song. 01:22:25.356 --> 01:22:29.736 Because I can see, I mean, just what occurs to me is that by the point where 01:22:29.736 --> 01:22:32.696 that comes in, you've got the marching band that you can hear very clearly. 01:22:33.176 --> 01:22:40.176 And unlike a lot of other types of music, the marching band is like very rhythmic in their own right. 01:22:40.236 --> 01:22:42.816 So it's almost like an inversion of what you would normally have instead of 01:22:42.816 --> 01:22:47.476 a steady drum and a more freeform instrument. You have these very regimented 01:22:47.476 --> 01:22:50.456 instruments with a big freeform drum solo over the top of it. 01:22:50.616 --> 01:22:50.716 Yeah. 01:22:50.896 --> 01:22:54.696 And I really wouldn't be surprised. Again, this is just my drummer blood coming 01:22:54.696 --> 01:22:59.056 up of just having McFleet going like, well, you've done this entire damn album 01:22:59.056 --> 01:23:02.776 and you got me playing on Kleenex boxes and you got me playing in a closet. 01:23:02.776 --> 01:23:04.676 You're playing your own drums over me. 01:23:04.836 --> 01:23:08.656 I want one damn second to just do something. 01:23:08.956 --> 01:23:09.596 Kill it. Yeah. 01:23:10.976 --> 01:23:13.776 And that wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was the case. 01:23:13.996 --> 01:23:19.376 Yeah. So we did talk about it. This has the USC marching marching band, 01:23:19.516 --> 01:23:21.516 the University of Southern California marching band. 01:23:22.176 --> 01:23:29.216 This was a whole ordeal to include this marching band. So they track Tusk, they record Tusk. 01:23:29.416 --> 01:23:34.816 And I think there's a short holiday break over the winter. 01:23:34.956 --> 01:23:38.396 And I think that this is when this moment happens where Mick is on vacation 01:23:38.396 --> 01:23:40.596 in like northern France. 01:23:40.596 --> 01:23:45.936 He's like sitting at a cafe and all of a sudden a big, 01:23:46.716 --> 01:23:53.056 village band starts parading down the street and it's this fertility festival 01:23:53.056 --> 01:23:59.176 and everyone's involved and it's this big beautiful thing and Mick's idea is 01:23:59.176 --> 01:24:03.376 we're going to do that no we're going to do that, 01:24:05.236 --> 01:24:11.996 so there we'll come back to that briefly So they contact the USC marching band, 01:24:11.996 --> 01:24:15.076 and they record it at Dodger Stadium. 01:24:15.096 --> 01:24:19.016 If you see the music video for Tusk, that is documenting this process. 01:24:19.196 --> 01:24:19.596 Mm-hmm. 01:24:21.157 --> 01:24:23.517 Looking at this process it's. 01:24:23.517 --> 01:24:25.517 A variety of scenes from the process. 01:24:25.517 --> 01:24:30.197 It's a whole first off john mcphee is not there he is on his boat in like the 01:24:30.197 --> 01:24:36.817 fucking atlantic ocean and so they have a cardboard cutout of john oh that's. 01:24:36.817 --> 01:24:37.937 What that was okay. 01:24:37.937 --> 01:24:41.897 And they're just carrying around his cardboard cutout doing his little smirky 01:24:41.897 --> 01:24:45.037 grin yeah because he wasn't there for that um, 01:24:46.457 --> 01:24:52.537 did you know that when you hire a marching band they probably won't tell you 01:24:52.537 --> 01:24:57.417 until the day of that the band must march oh. 01:24:57.417 --> 01:25:02.017 That makes a lot more sense that makes a lot more. 01:25:02.017 --> 01:25:04.917 Sense so yeah so the band like they 01:25:04.917 --> 01:25:07.797 have to march that's how they keep time right and 01:25:07.797 --> 01:25:10.857 everyone's like what the fuck you should have said something and so 01:25:10.857 --> 01:25:14.157 there is dodger stadium and already 01:25:14.157 --> 01:25:17.917 they're having this trouble there's 112 musicians on 01:25:17.917 --> 01:25:21.237 the field okay and at one 01:25:21.237 --> 01:25:24.537 point they're like how are they gonna hear if we play it over the speakers it's 01:25:24.537 --> 01:25:27.357 gonna have too much bleed on the microphones they're just gonna hear the the 01:25:27.357 --> 01:25:34.357 drum so how do we even do that well just get headphones just rent 120 headphones 01:25:34.357 --> 01:25:40.757 and we'll make it work which they were going to do yeah until the band had to march, 01:25:41.949 --> 01:25:49.349 And so ultimately they say, OK, I'm the I'm the conductor. Give me headphones. 01:25:50.109 --> 01:25:54.149 And then I think there's some there's some small speaker system that they set 01:25:54.149 --> 01:25:58.469 up where some people can hear something, but they ultimately have it kind of going to the conductor. 01:25:58.689 --> 01:26:01.849 OK, like I'm the conductor. I will do it fine. 01:26:02.049 --> 01:26:02.189 Yeah. 01:26:02.529 --> 01:26:06.229 Then they record it. And actually they end up coming back. Do you know a VSO? 01:26:07.109 --> 01:26:08.189 No, I don't know what that is. 01:26:08.189 --> 01:26:15.269 So it comes up a lot in the talking about this album and a good bit in rumors 01:26:15.269 --> 01:26:17.229 because it was used to kind of save rumors. 01:26:17.409 --> 01:26:21.289 But a VSO is a variable speed oscillator. 01:26:22.409 --> 01:26:25.129 Goodness. I'm going to cut this way short. 01:26:26.769 --> 01:26:30.849 If you wanted to change the speed of something, you would use a VSO for this. 01:26:30.989 --> 01:26:31.149 Okay. 01:26:31.469 --> 01:26:36.369 And think of it like when you're watching a movie and let's say you had a button 01:26:36.369 --> 01:26:37.809 to kind of offset the sync. 01:26:38.429 --> 01:26:43.449 This is kind of like that imagine you had a knob and you could kind of change the timing, 01:26:44.209 --> 01:26:47.269 very kind of on the fly okay um that's 01:26:47.269 --> 01:26:50.769 kind of what the vso is i i 01:26:50.769 --> 01:26:53.889 recommend going and looking up what it actually is because 01:26:53.889 --> 01:26:56.749 i in my head i can see how it works i 01:26:56.749 --> 01:26:59.949 know how it works it you're tweening it's tweening 01:26:59.949 --> 01:27:02.969 it's just tweening but i can't describe it technically 01:27:02.969 --> 01:27:07.129 so i'm not going to but uh apparently they record the brass band and then have 01:27:07.129 --> 01:27:12.869 to vso the whole recording because they're not in time okay they're almost in 01:27:12.869 --> 01:27:19.389 time but they're not in time um but i think that also leads to a characteristic 01:27:19.389 --> 01:27:22.749 where the horns maybe are, 01:27:23.329 --> 01:27:29.349 maybe a little perfect i mean you talked uh you're not on the stand counselor 01:27:29.349 --> 01:27:35.509 but um But you said earlier that the horns are very clean and that the drums 01:27:35.509 --> 01:27:39.009 and all the other pieces around it are a little sloppier. 01:27:39.169 --> 01:27:43.609 And so that VSO process may have ironed it out. 01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:47.780 Ironed that out i guess to just get the what they got the 01:27:47.780 --> 01:27:51.260 hand to make the horns like really solid in fact um another 01:27:51.260 --> 01:27:53.940 thing on the tusk re-release if you go 01:27:53.940 --> 01:27:57.620 and listen to the b disc of demos and sessions uh 01:27:57.620 --> 01:28:00.700 we talked about how i know i'm not wrong has 01:28:00.700 --> 01:28:03.400 a lot of takes yeah on that disc tusk also has 01:28:03.400 --> 01:28:07.720 a lot of takes that kind of track like okay here is a recording of it as a stage 01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:12.080 riff here are a few different like in the processes and then one of the last 01:28:12.080 --> 01:28:18.160 ones there is an instrumental version just with presumably just the marching 01:28:18.160 --> 01:28:22.000 band and so it's just it's you got the horns wait a minute. 01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.760 You told me they taken they took out the hooga haga. 01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:27.680 But the hooga haga the best part 01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:31.720 so they record the the 01:28:31.720 --> 01:28:35.560 brass and they get in the song very cool we're not 01:28:35.560 --> 01:28:38.620 done there okay mick was so taken 01:28:38.620 --> 01:28:43.120 in france that let's keep 01:28:43.120 --> 01:28:46.000 doing it when this is 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:49.580 this is mick speaking on our upcoming tour let's 01:28:49.580 --> 01:28:52.940 go and reach out to the local high school bands and have 01:28:52.940 --> 01:28:56.200 them learn the song and they'll come in during tusk 01:28:56.200 --> 01:28:59.820 and it'll be this huge moment it'll 01:28:59.820 --> 01:29:02.540 be this this gigantic moment for us right when 01:29:02.540 --> 01:29:05.300 the brass comes in and suddenly you have the the people of the 01:29:05.300 --> 01:29:11.480 town right you know so when 01:29:11.480 --> 01:29:15.360 i talked earlier about the accuracy of the get tusked book okay this is one 01:29:15.360 --> 01:29:23.000 of my quibbles see ken says that fleetwood mac would go and look at local marching 01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:30.360 bands and get them to to uh be a part of the concerts and he asserts that they actually did that. 01:29:32.060 --> 01:29:35.040 And i don't believe that's true 01:29:35.040 --> 01:29:37.900 okay rather i think there are a 01:29:37.900 --> 01:29:43.440 few instances where fleetwood mac did perform with them with a band usually 01:29:43.440 --> 01:29:51.480 the usc marching band um but not on tour i have not seen any evidence that actually 01:29:51.480 --> 01:29:55.640 it uh there was a marching band on tour on any of these dates well. 01:29:55.640 --> 01:29:58.800 No matter no matter how you slice it up it sounds like a logistical nightmare you're. 01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:00.740 Either taking an entire uh. 01:30:00.740 --> 01:30:04.860 Uh you're taking an entire band with you on tour you're gonna get like four 01:30:04.860 --> 01:30:08.820 more buses or you're trying to get the local high schools at every place that 01:30:08.820 --> 01:30:10.800 you go to to learn this song. 01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:11.420 Right well. 01:30:11.420 --> 01:30:12.420 Enough to play. 01:30:12.420 --> 01:30:17.880 On to just walk in for one song right yeah so i don't think that happened but 01:30:17.880 --> 01:30:22.940 ken is like ken is kind of confident that that it does happen mm-hmm, 01:30:23.847 --> 01:30:28.367 I'm not saying he's wrong, but there are many instances, including the one that 01:30:28.367 --> 01:30:33.207 we'll talk about at the end of the show, where a band does come on stage and perform with them. 01:30:33.287 --> 01:30:37.007 And so I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm saying just little, 01:30:37.087 --> 01:30:39.487 little, little inconsistency. 01:30:39.787 --> 01:30:42.227 It's very possible that it could have happened once or twice. 01:30:42.387 --> 01:30:42.707 Right. 01:30:42.747 --> 01:30:46.507 But probably you would have a lot more documentation if it was a thing that 01:30:46.507 --> 01:30:48.327 happened through the entire tour. 01:30:48.867 --> 01:30:50.147 If it happened ever. 01:30:50.687 --> 01:30:50.807 Yeah. 01:30:50.807 --> 01:30:54.027 Honestly like the only times that i 01:30:54.027 --> 01:30:57.227 am really aware of them playing is with the 01:30:57.227 --> 01:31:01.507 usc band in california so um that's 01:31:01.507 --> 01:31:05.487 that's tusk um it's 01:31:05.487 --> 01:31:08.167 there's even a longer story we that i 01:31:08.167 --> 01:31:10.907 don't even technically can't entirely wrap my head around 01:31:10.907 --> 01:31:13.787 but when they're recording this the drum beat 01:31:13.787 --> 01:31:17.467 that they're using is actually a loop but loop 01:31:17.467 --> 01:31:20.367 again there's not digital technology at the 01:31:20.367 --> 01:31:23.507 time to make a loop and so it was 01:31:23.507 --> 01:31:26.607 it was some duct tape 01:31:26.607 --> 01:31:30.467 sort of solution where they had a magnetic tape that they 01:31:30.467 --> 01:31:33.207 had able they were able to dub with this like 01:31:33.207 --> 01:31:36.207 same like measure or four measures 01:31:36.207 --> 01:31:39.227 of a drum uh recording and then 01:31:39.227 --> 01:31:42.247 that tape like winds around the 01:31:42.247 --> 01:31:45.047 room and it has to stay taut so 01:31:45.047 --> 01:31:49.147 it will get read and dubbed on the machines but 01:31:49.147 --> 01:31:55.227 then like it's confusing i kind of don't get it but tusk um before we jump into 01:31:55.227 --> 01:31:58.807 the alternate yeah just to kind of prime you i guess for the alternate here 01:31:58.807 --> 01:32:05.407 this is a just a different mix of tusk okay um so. 01:32:05.407 --> 01:32:08.287 It's not going to be significantly different than what we heard on the album. 01:32:08.287 --> 01:32:12.007 I'd like to see if you can you i'd like to see you point out the things that 01:32:12.007 --> 01:32:16.367 are different because i think you will um but yeah in general it is the same 01:32:16.367 --> 01:32:20.727 takes i believe it's pretty much the same audio information yeah but it's a 01:32:20.727 --> 01:32:25.447 slightly different remix okay all right well let's jump into that alternate tusk, 01:35:51.540 --> 01:35:53.560 the alternate task definitely. 01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:56.180 More uh definitely more silliness uh. 01:35:56.180 --> 01:35:59.600 In the alternate task for 01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:02.540 some reason that's the version that they put 01:36:02.540 --> 01:36:06.600 on this is one that is almost the almost 01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:12.740 exactly the final cut but with a little bit more of those vocals in the in the 01:36:12.740 --> 01:36:17.700 second half yeah and then like the brass you can hear it a little earlier you 01:36:17.700 --> 01:36:24.340 can hear like a phrase or two earlier other than that it's pretty similar you know maybe there's, 01:36:25.280 --> 01:36:29.200 slight you know maybe the compression's different maybe there are some smaller 01:36:29.200 --> 01:36:36.720 mixing things here but in general tusk is tusk yeah um but it may also speak to, 01:36:38.200 --> 01:36:41.560 the the way that that song was made you 01:36:41.560 --> 01:36:45.800 know like we think about the recording process for it right where they had to 01:36:45.800 --> 01:36:49.420 record it and then they had to go you know record it with the band and then 01:36:49.420 --> 01:36:55.320 with the bro the marching band and then mix it all together and versus something 01:36:55.320 --> 01:36:59.320 like you know we talked about like think about me which was they get in the 01:36:59.320 --> 01:37:01.200 studio and they play the second song, 01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:07.220 and bob is your uncle because it's just a rock song um and so maybe that's why, 01:37:08.580 --> 01:37:14.000 what we get here is so close to the final product just because um Hmm... 01:37:15.360 --> 01:37:20.500 There aren't a lot of like alternate takes right you know this is it well. 01:37:20.500 --> 01:37:24.160 I mean yeah once you add that that marching band component in it's like you're 01:37:24.160 --> 01:37:26.220 kind of locked in with that like. 01:37:26.220 --> 01:37:26.700 Yeah i. 01:37:26.700 --> 01:37:32.400 It's it's actually i don't know if uh in those other versions i would be interested 01:37:32.400 --> 01:37:36.120 because i can't really imagine this song as without that. 01:37:36.120 --> 01:37:36.860 Marching band. 01:37:36.860 --> 01:37:42.960 Like it sounds like it'd be very simple and kind of just sort of a loop without that i don't know. 01:37:42.960 --> 01:37:46.600 Yeah it leans a lot on that drum loop yeah um when 01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:49.800 you listen to the to the to those demos you know 01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:53.680 it's definitely drum loop forward um there's 01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:56.780 also not the the album there 01:37:56.780 --> 01:38:00.600 the i guess both of these versions of tusk have a lot of like percussion 01:38:00.600 --> 01:38:03.480 overdubs right like even if this 01:38:03.480 --> 01:38:08.220 is a song that is centered around this drum loop there are other percussive 01:38:08.220 --> 01:38:13.700 things that go on top of it yeah that make it not just be a loop you know there's 01:38:13.700 --> 01:38:18.720 a lot of like yeah you know or there but i mean more than just like the vocal 01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:23.020 bits there's a lot of bits where they kind of are improvising and changing it up without, 01:38:24.660 --> 01:38:33.400 always making it sound different um tusk tusk well. 01:38:33.400 --> 01:38:38.560 I i'm glad that mick uh got to see that band because, again, 01:38:38.720 --> 01:38:42.840 I think this is one of the more singular, like this one stands out from a lot 01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:43.680 of the other stuff around it. 01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:49.760 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we're going to wrap up the album here with another softer 01:38:49.760 --> 01:38:51.500 jam. Let's never forget. 01:38:51.940 --> 01:38:56.100 Let's listen to a little preview here of The Christine Closer. 01:40:38.003 --> 01:40:40.983 Never forget kind of a sweet little 01:40:40.983 --> 01:40:44.463 damn like more fucking whiplash yeah 01:40:44.463 --> 01:40:48.003 after tusk though yes um like 01:40:48.003 --> 01:40:54.163 tusk not being the closer and instead of being never forget and i think maybe 01:40:54.163 --> 01:41:02.323 alluded it alluded to it inside a but um there's a bit of it feels like continuity 01:41:02.323 --> 01:41:04.743 between never forget and over and over. 01:41:05.543 --> 01:41:11.783 Aesthetically, they're both kind of softer. They both are a little rambly, 01:41:11.803 --> 01:41:16.803 or maybe they're kind of, a little repetitive. 01:41:18.923 --> 01:41:21.163 I don't know. What do you feel about Never Forget? 01:41:21.523 --> 01:41:25.883 I, this is the most challenging song for me on this entire album, 01:41:25.943 --> 01:41:29.683 because this is such a, I don't know. 01:41:29.823 --> 01:41:33.203 This just seems like it was, this seems like it was, 01:41:33.203 --> 01:41:37.063 okay say it okay i don't want to i don't want to be mean but like this seems 01:41:37.063 --> 01:41:41.543 like uh you know killer you you went to chat gpt you typed in write me the lyrics 01:41:41.543 --> 01:41:46.163 to a soft rock song that could be that no one could find offensive ever in the 01:41:46.163 --> 01:41:48.723 history of all mankind and then you listen to it, 01:41:49.423 --> 01:41:55.383 musically you go is there anything to talk about no what's going on musically no and listening. 01:41:55.383 --> 01:41:59.223 To it even just now i was like oh this doesn't nothing changed. 01:41:59.223 --> 01:42:00.483 Yep like. 01:42:00.483 --> 01:42:02.063 There's a slight chord change. 01:42:02.063 --> 01:42:05.163 But it has a you know it has a chorus but 01:42:05.163 --> 01:42:08.743 like this is sometimes um 01:42:08.743 --> 01:42:11.543 a nice pop song my nice 01:42:11.543 --> 01:42:14.783 inoffensive pop song yeah is catchy and 01:42:14.783 --> 01:42:18.283 it works and there's a lot of christine songs that i like i can't 01:42:18.283 --> 01:42:21.243 find anything to grab onto with this it's not like 01:42:21.243 --> 01:42:24.563 yeah it's it's just it's so kind of 01:42:24.563 --> 01:42:28.583 a nothing burger you know come on baby let's 01:42:28.583 --> 01:42:31.563 get you know don't you be cold don't you be cold love 01:42:31.563 --> 01:42:34.663 is gold like i i could see this in the hands of a 01:42:34.663 --> 01:42:37.703 um like a blues band who could 01:42:37.703 --> 01:42:41.903 who could lyrically or musically oomph it up even with the same lyrics even 01:42:41.903 --> 01:42:46.803 with some of the same stuff but the way it is here it's just it's such a vanilla 01:42:46.803 --> 01:42:53.523 cake with buttercream frosting that i'm just like okay do i eat it no i don't 01:42:53.523 --> 01:42:56.443 have anything to say about it's like. 01:42:56.443 --> 01:43:02.643 I think it's a I think it's catchy in a way that I think... 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:14.960 Pop songs have to be bad to be catchy hold on hold on uh i don't think katie 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:19.940 perry is a good singer i think her voice is not particularly good sure for singing 01:43:19.940 --> 01:43:22.340 yeah her timbers not my preference, 01:43:23.180 --> 01:43:30.340 and i think that's partly why she's successful because it's not bad i just don't like it. 01:43:31.280 --> 01:43:32.260 I i don't know. 01:43:32.260 --> 01:43:34.940 And and and so i i guess where what i'm getting at it 01:43:34.940 --> 01:43:41.340 here is like i think this is fine and there are a few like almost like uncanny 01:43:41.340 --> 01:43:47.780 valley bits like the way she says stroll and the like two different ways she 01:43:47.780 --> 01:43:53.860 says it are like strange yeah we don't say stroll in America to begin with. 01:43:54.020 --> 01:43:57.480 We definitely don't say stutroll. I don't know. 01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:01.000 But it is catchy. 01:44:01.400 --> 01:44:01.840 I don't know. 01:44:02.020 --> 01:44:02.720 Never forget. 01:44:03.240 --> 01:44:08.420 The thing is that I go to Katy Perry. I've been known when doing projects to 01:44:08.420 --> 01:44:12.460 sometimes listen to the exact same song on repeat, like just for six hours at 01:44:12.460 --> 01:44:17.200 a time as just like a kind of a something to keep my motor running. 01:44:17.820 --> 01:44:22.920 And I have done that with specifically Hot and Cold by Katy Perry which is a 01:44:22.920 --> 01:44:28.700 much more dynamic song like is it the best song no but it's really catchy I mean with this it's like, 01:44:29.940 --> 01:44:35.760 the tempo is just low enough that it's a foot tapper but not like a getting 01:44:35.760 --> 01:44:42.800 you going foot tapper it's a it's a warm bath yeah on a mild afternoon I. 01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:47.600 Think I think if this song was on Rumors or the White Flea with Mac album, 01:44:47.820 --> 01:44:51.580 I think it would fit really well because I think there's a folk, 01:44:52.680 --> 01:44:56.340 a folk genre element to this that... 01:44:58.340 --> 01:45:04.700 Across the rest of the album i think is more succumbed to like country influence 01:45:04.700 --> 01:45:13.040 and i think between this and like honey high i feel like there's enough of a folky element to it. 01:45:13.040 --> 01:45:13.640 That. 01:45:14.360 --> 01:45:17.880 Like that's why i didn't feel any tropical elements to honey high because to 01:45:17.880 --> 01:45:19.080 me that's like a folk song. 01:45:19.080 --> 01:45:20.300 Yeah um. 01:45:20.300 --> 01:45:24.440 And the folks don't have palm trees are you kidding me no they would never in this economy. 01:45:24.440 --> 01:45:30.740 Also i i i think that i'm also just i'm judging this song harshly because like, 01:45:32.060 --> 01:45:34.800 tusk was the perfect end to this album of 01:45:34.800 --> 01:45:37.820 being the title track and the way that it kind of fades out 01:45:37.820 --> 01:45:40.820 and the way that it's so different it's such an excellent it's like an exclamation 01:45:40.820 --> 01:45:45.360 point tusk exclamation point yeah and then you have this come along and it's 01:45:45.360 --> 01:45:49.600 just like like i don't think i would be as irritated with this if it was pushed 01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:53.780 back into some of the other places that we were yeah But it doesn't seem to 01:45:53.780 --> 01:45:57.240 have the raw emotional element of some of the other songs. 01:45:57.240 --> 01:46:00.960 It's not lyrically as interesting as even some of the other Christine songs. 01:46:01.340 --> 01:46:07.440 Again, it's not that I hate it. It's just that it doesn't evoke much to me at all. 01:46:07.720 --> 01:46:13.560 So I feel like I'm going to look at the Christine songs on this album over and over. Think about me. 01:46:14.720 --> 01:46:16.360 I really did like think about me. 01:46:17.180 --> 01:46:21.560 Brown eyes. Never make me cry. Oh. 01:46:22.920 --> 01:46:27.940 I think this is a song where I think Christine needed to be challenged more. 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:35.200 Like, I think Never Make Me Cry, we heard, you know, a huge shift between its 01:46:35.200 --> 01:46:39.660 earlier version, which would have been like a very piano forward, 01:46:39.680 --> 01:46:42.560 like Songbird 2 type song. 01:46:43.060 --> 01:46:51.120 And that song got challenged into being this very vocal forward kind of soundscape. Yeah. 01:46:51.400 --> 01:46:56.260 And for like Never Forget or over and over, I don't think there was as much 01:46:56.260 --> 01:46:59.020 challenging of like, can't this... 01:47:01.508 --> 01:47:05.168 I'm not gonna imagine i had a better word than this but can't this be better 01:47:05.168 --> 01:47:08.768 like can't we do more can't we do more with this because hit. 01:47:08.768 --> 01:47:09.728 It with the spice weasel. 01:47:09.728 --> 01:47:10.868 You would you would think that 01:47:10.868 --> 01:47:17.868 would be what you would find in this band that is defined by the way it, 01:47:18.348 --> 01:47:24.788 collaborates yeah and maybe this is part of the excess kind of coming back full 01:47:24.788 --> 01:47:29.528 circle of this was christine's song this is what she wanted and what she wanted 01:47:29.528 --> 01:47:33.648 was this very basic sense of a song there's. 01:47:33.648 --> 01:47:38.768 Also i mean i i again this could be me reading into stuff but you do i mean 01:47:38.768 --> 01:47:41.868 the one thing i like about a lot of the christine songs is that there's a lot 01:47:41.868 --> 01:47:43.908 of like emotional tumult between. 01:47:43.908 --> 01:47:45.428 The stevie nicks. 01:47:45.428 --> 01:47:51.228 Songs and uh lindsey's songs and so the idea of like giving the entire band 01:47:51.228 --> 01:47:52.768 just to sort of a little bit of a. 01:47:52.768 --> 01:47:54.028 Break let's just have. 01:47:54.028 --> 01:47:58.408 A let's just have some little basic let's just have a chicken and potatoes dinner 01:47:58.408 --> 01:48:03.228 and then we can go back to freebasing jalapenos tomorrow like. 01:48:03.228 --> 01:48:06.708 I mean yeah I mean that's the story about Think About Me right is like the band 01:48:06.708 --> 01:48:10.988 kind of came together and it was like oh yeah we're a fucking rock band we can 01:48:10.988 --> 01:48:18.028 just do this yeah I see that I it's also another track, 01:48:19.468 --> 01:48:26.028 with kind of a rim click that's been double tracked was it Brown Eyes Yeah, 01:48:26.148 --> 01:48:28.468 it was brown eyes. That's also got that click, that rim click. 01:48:29.448 --> 01:48:30.728 So I'm sure that was fun. 01:48:31.608 --> 01:48:36.888 I didn't really get that. But as I said, this song kept just flowing over my brain. 01:48:37.028 --> 01:48:38.308 I didn't get it to go inside. 01:48:40.668 --> 01:48:44.148 One... I have two more things here on Never Forget. One of them... 01:48:44.148 --> 01:48:47.788 There's a sound that you hear near the end of Never Forget. 01:48:47.988 --> 01:48:52.908 This like kind of whooshing, warbling sort of sound. 01:48:53.028 --> 01:48:53.388 Okay. Okay. 01:49:09.971 --> 01:49:15.711 I'm kind of stuck on this because it's in the alternate, but it's such a weird 01:49:15.711 --> 01:49:23.451 warbling sound that you would have to do a lot of work to make that sound. 01:49:23.451 --> 01:49:30.651 But it's also in the demo I don't it's just it's strange it's one of those things where I feel like, 01:49:31.751 --> 01:49:35.011 part of the idea of 01:49:35.011 --> 01:49:41.571 this album was to make strange sounds to make new sounds that people may not 01:49:41.571 --> 01:49:45.291 be used to hearing before I mean there are sounds that you hear in a studio 01:49:45.291 --> 01:49:51.611 all the time that are not interesting when you're in a studio but if you're 01:49:51.611 --> 01:49:53.091 not in a studio all the time then, 01:49:53.611 --> 01:49:59.211 holding down pressing down on a turntable to make it stop and go right is is 01:49:59.211 --> 01:50:03.811 something that people is novel to people especially in 1979 and so there's like 01:50:03.811 --> 01:50:08.971 this warbling effect with i it sounds like it's with a guitar but i don't know 01:50:08.971 --> 01:50:11.071 how else to describe it other than this like, 01:50:12.091 --> 01:50:19.451 wind whooshing sort of sound um but i but i i can't describe it any better than 01:50:19.451 --> 01:50:23.271 that and i I don't know how you would make that sound. 01:50:23.411 --> 01:50:28.271 Yeah. Maybe the air conditioning was on. Maybe there was a fan. 01:50:28.751 --> 01:50:33.291 Yeah, this grand studio, there's like a little window unit. 01:50:33.431 --> 01:50:34.271 Yep, yep. 01:50:36.871 --> 01:50:42.291 The last thing on Never Forget, I want to say this was probably a slightly earlier 01:50:42.291 --> 01:50:43.431 song that they recorded. 01:50:43.671 --> 01:50:43.831 Okay. 01:50:43.971 --> 01:50:47.231 I think the original title of it was Come On Baby. 01:50:48.811 --> 01:50:52.571 Um and come on baby they 01:50:52.571 --> 01:50:55.311 saw beautiful china said no we gotta 01:50:55.311 --> 01:51:01.691 change it um but the kind of what we talked about is like tusk probably should 01:51:01.691 --> 01:51:05.871 have been the closer for this album yeah and it was an intentional choice by 01:51:05.871 --> 01:51:14.411 the group to quote stifle expectations um the album was about the ups and downs of relationships. 01:51:14.731 --> 01:51:19.551 So by ending on never forget, you were ending on a more positive, 01:51:20.191 --> 01:51:21.331 slightly optimistic tone. 01:51:21.571 --> 01:51:25.911 I had thought of that when I first listened to this, of the idea of doing that. I don't know. 01:51:26.931 --> 01:51:28.711 I mean, it's there, but... 01:51:28.711 --> 01:51:34.191 I mean, but then you go back to this question of like, are you trying to challenge me or not? 01:51:34.351 --> 01:51:37.851 Like, if you're trying to challenge me, then get me out of my comfort space 01:51:37.851 --> 01:51:41.471 and let's go through this raw emotional journey that you've got going on and 01:51:41.471 --> 01:51:44.631 let's end with the lead singer of your band screaming penis into a microphone 01:51:44.631 --> 01:51:46.031 while the marching band is behind him. 01:51:46.231 --> 01:51:48.391 Like, you know, let's challenge it. 01:51:49.291 --> 01:51:51.571 Because so much of the rest of this album is challenging. 01:51:51.751 --> 01:51:51.911 Right. 01:51:52.011 --> 01:51:55.211 It is intentionally like being kind of a... 01:51:57.954 --> 01:52:00.434 A contrarian yeah a little bit of like. 01:52:00.434 --> 01:52:03.034 Just fuck you i'm gonna record in my bathroom. 01:52:03.034 --> 01:52:03.574 And we're. 01:52:03.574 --> 01:52:06.994 Gonna make a replica of my bathroom fuck you i'm gonna be on record saying that 01:52:06.994 --> 01:52:09.934 1927 bathrooms are better than what we've got now. 01:52:09.934 --> 01:52:13.274 I mean fuck you i guess it's just a question because i think that the second 01:52:13.274 --> 01:52:17.274 time i listened to the song i thought of it as like i don't know this kind of 01:52:17.274 --> 01:52:22.934 feels like a like a nice gender neutral hug from somebody that you trust and 01:52:22.934 --> 01:52:25.574 it was like oh that's nice But then the more I thought about it, 01:52:25.674 --> 01:52:28.154 the more I started to get mad at it, where I was like, no, 01:52:28.634 --> 01:52:32.174 like you dragged me through all of your emotional turmoil and all of these weird 01:52:32.174 --> 01:52:34.954 songs full of all these strange ideas. 01:52:35.194 --> 01:52:37.814 You know, you're prone in the bathroom screaming. 01:52:38.954 --> 01:52:39.614 Fuck you! 01:52:40.114 --> 01:52:46.734 Screaming at me about this stuff. Don't give me a cookie and a pat on the back. But maybe. 01:52:47.634 --> 01:52:50.174 Maybe we're still human. Maybe we're not animals. 01:52:50.174 --> 01:52:55.834 Like, march off into the sunset with your crazy-ass band after you've had this 01:52:55.834 --> 01:53:00.734 frenetic drum solo and screamed the word Tusk at me inexplicably several times. 01:53:00.894 --> 01:53:03.734 Like, I think that that would be a more fitting end. And again, 01:53:03.914 --> 01:53:06.814 I want to say that it's not that I dislike this song, and I think that it might 01:53:06.814 --> 01:53:08.394 have worked in a different place. 01:53:08.534 --> 01:53:12.734 But I think that there is weight to how do you end the story, 01:53:12.994 --> 01:53:17.194 you know? It's like you can end a story in an interesting way, 01:53:17.194 --> 01:53:19.254 or you can make sure that when you get to the end of the story, 01:53:19.374 --> 01:53:23.014 it's all wrapped up in a nice bow and everybody feels fine. And those are two different things. 01:53:23.274 --> 01:53:27.694 And for this one, I think I just would have preferred the whole album was messy. 01:53:27.894 --> 01:53:33.254 Take your messiest song and your most experimental song and leave me with that 01:53:33.254 --> 01:53:37.694 to go like, wow, what a way to go out. because i. 01:53:37.694 --> 01:53:44.074 Mean i and i hear what you're saying too like it's an it's it's an interesting 01:53:44.074 --> 01:53:48.014 concept on paper but there's not a lot of other concepts that it sits next to 01:53:48.014 --> 01:53:48.994 that are that intentional. 01:53:48.994 --> 01:53:51.694 Yeah it feels like like mentally i'm sorry i don't want to keep 01:53:51.694 --> 01:53:54.974 harping on this but mentally in my head it's like the idea you talked about 01:53:54.974 --> 01:53:58.334 the concert thing of going through all of these songs which are all these different 01:53:58.334 --> 01:54:02.534 things and imagine if you're watching this as an audience and then tusk comes 01:54:02.534 --> 01:54:05.854 on and they're they're you know why don't you tell me that you won't go away 01:54:05.854 --> 01:54:10.694 And then suddenly a marching band streams down the hallways of the concert, 01:54:10.854 --> 01:54:12.994 playing this incredible thing. 01:54:13.154 --> 01:54:16.574 And then they stream up onto the stage and everybody screams Tusk. 01:54:16.634 --> 01:54:18.874 And then they all kind of wander off. 01:54:19.074 --> 01:54:24.774 And then the house lights come up, right? It just totally makes more sense to me. 01:54:25.894 --> 01:54:27.914 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean... 01:54:29.299 --> 01:54:30.939 I'm belaboring a little bit at this point. 01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:37.199 Well, we talked previously that it seemed like there was an idea going around 01:54:37.199 --> 01:54:40.439 through a lot of the recording sessions that this might be two projects. 01:54:40.639 --> 01:54:40.719 Right. 01:54:40.779 --> 01:54:44.139 Or this might be two separate disks or two separate products. 01:54:44.619 --> 01:54:50.059 And maybe that's a consequence of that, of we didn't really have anywhere else 01:54:50.059 --> 01:54:54.919 to put Never Forget, or we had to change tack so late in the project that nothing 01:54:54.919 --> 01:54:57.939 else can respond except the track listing. 01:54:57.939 --> 01:55:01.859 But then like either way you have to take that on the chin. 01:55:01.859 --> 01:55:05.019 Yeah because i don't know in looking at this last side it's like if we just 01:55:05.019 --> 01:55:09.119 try to find a place for never forget on this last side i don't think that it 01:55:09.119 --> 01:55:13.159 works well after beautiful child because that's such an impactful song and i 01:55:13.159 --> 01:55:17.399 don't know that it would work after walk a thin line um because it would just 01:55:17.399 --> 01:55:20.059 be kind of too much of the same back to back so and. 01:55:20.059 --> 01:55:25.799 Then what do you put on this side if you're replacing never forget to make room for it. 01:55:25.799 --> 01:55:27.959 I don't know i mean i would have to go it's. 01:55:27.959 --> 01:55:29.499 A longer it's a longer conversation. 01:55:29.499 --> 01:55:32.659 Like you would you could probably you could probably 01:55:32.659 --> 01:55:37.259 make a case for taking never forget somewhere back in like side one and then 01:55:37.259 --> 01:55:41.059 taking another one of christine's songs like think about me that is that does 01:55:41.059 --> 01:55:45.039 contrast more with what's on this last side and swap them out but then i feel 01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:49.159 like putting never forget on side one takes away that nice little uplifting 01:55:49.159 --> 01:55:52.499 pop song that you get after the first two kind of experimental things. 01:55:52.959 --> 01:55:54.799 So anyway, I mean. 01:55:54.959 --> 01:56:00.419 It's it's it's obviously not an easy problem to solve, you know, 01:56:00.619 --> 01:56:05.259 tracking out, you know, one album that is kind of three little albums, 01:56:05.359 --> 01:56:08.319 but then making everyone feel good. 01:56:08.439 --> 01:56:08.719 Right. 01:56:08.879 --> 01:56:11.559 You know, at the end of the day, you actually have to make the band feel good. 01:56:11.699 --> 01:56:13.139 Otherwise, they're not going to want to do it. 01:56:14.259 --> 01:56:19.219 Well, let's jump into the alternate. Never forget here. Not much to say about it. 02:00:04.725 --> 02:00:06.805 There we go. A little bit of organ. 02:00:07.165 --> 02:00:07.305 Yeah. 02:00:07.445 --> 02:00:09.085 Got a tambourine instead of the click. 02:00:09.305 --> 02:00:09.445 Yep. 02:00:12.185 --> 02:00:18.065 Better. Yeah. I mean, I thought musically a little bit more interesting. 02:00:18.445 --> 02:00:19.605 It had a little bit more character. 02:00:20.765 --> 02:00:24.145 I'm still not the biggest fan of the lyrics, but they were even sung in a little 02:00:24.145 --> 02:00:28.205 bit more expressive. Yeah, a little bit looser. 02:00:30.905 --> 02:00:35.685 I would be less. it's another slight yeah like. 02:00:35.685 --> 02:00:40.165 It does sound different enough compared to the studio cut. 02:00:40.165 --> 02:00:41.025 Yes but. 02:00:41.025 --> 02:00:47.425 Out of all of them it's like i don't even know they don't even talk about this 02:00:47.425 --> 02:00:53.445 one in the book um no they do talk about just briefly but like it's like yeah it's. 02:00:55.345 --> 02:01:00.645 It's a basic song it's a very basic song yeah like i i it kind of goes back to some of the, 02:01:01.405 --> 02:01:04.605 when i've talked in the past about lindsey's guitar where 02:01:04.605 --> 02:01:07.685 i'm like if you know if you guys are 02:01:07.685 --> 02:01:13.045 artists that like give it to me give it to me like full throttle yeah and so 02:01:13.045 --> 02:01:17.825 again the christine stuff is kind of hit or miss for me because sometimes it 02:01:17.825 --> 02:01:23.325 feels real out of place sometimes it seems like a nice respite um this one just 02:01:23.325 --> 02:01:26.105 doesn't seem to have as much to grab onto as a lot of the other ones yeah. 02:01:26.105 --> 02:01:33.165 Yeah um yeah i mean i don't even really have whatever. 02:01:33.165 --> 02:01:35.865 Like you know i. 02:01:35.865 --> 02:01:37.125 Think i don't like this song. 02:01:37.125 --> 02:01:40.725 I'm not coming around i think i'm not liking this song yeah well i mean it seems 02:01:40.725 --> 02:01:43.905 like the thing that you're most focused on is like what is that aquarium noise 02:01:43.905 --> 02:01:49.465 like that's all you've got what is it because it's not like there's anything 02:01:49.465 --> 02:01:53.585 about the lyrical content that's worth talking about. I mean, it's fine. 02:01:53.765 --> 02:01:54.245 It's fine. 02:01:54.245 --> 02:01:57.025 It's fine. My mom could listen to this song. It would be fine. 02:01:57.365 --> 02:01:58.905 Your mom probably did listen to this song. 02:01:58.925 --> 02:02:00.405 I probably did listen to this song. It was fine. 02:02:00.945 --> 02:02:08.565 And I think if you're in the band and this is one of the Christine songs that she's got, well... 02:02:09.052 --> 02:02:14.232 That's how Christine made her hits, writing simple songs. 02:02:15.852 --> 02:02:23.632 So I think, yeah, there probably just isn't, there's just not as much challenging going on of this track. 02:02:23.972 --> 02:02:26.132 And I mean, there's another thought that I've had about this, 02:02:26.212 --> 02:02:30.612 but it might be better saved if we're going to do like kind of end thoughts about the entire album. 02:02:30.712 --> 02:02:31.112 Yeah, we will. 02:02:31.432 --> 02:02:35.112 Because I did have a thought that I'd like to put in there that's kind of about. 02:02:35.312 --> 02:02:37.852 Well, let's jump into that because I don't fucking want to talk about Never Forget anymore. 02:02:38.112 --> 02:02:38.272 Okay. 02:02:38.272 --> 02:02:41.712 How did you feel now that we are at the end of this experience, Jeff? 02:02:43.572 --> 02:02:49.652 It was interesting. I don't think, like, I think that if I had just come to 02:02:49.652 --> 02:02:52.832 this album, if I just said, I'm going to listen to this Tusk album, 02:02:52.872 --> 02:02:55.552 I don't think I would have liked it. 02:02:55.652 --> 02:02:59.952 I think that it was one of those things where, like, I think that there's some 02:02:59.952 --> 02:03:06.812 music you like right away and some music you're ambivalent about and you don't like it. 02:03:06.812 --> 02:03:09.532 And some music you're ambivalent about, and then as you listen to it more, 02:03:09.852 --> 02:03:11.392 you start to appreciate it. 02:03:11.732 --> 02:03:15.372 And I think that I've appreciated this, especially with your insight and the 02:03:15.372 --> 02:03:19.012 alternate tracks. I didn't know anything about Fleetwood Mac coming into this. 02:03:20.472 --> 02:03:23.332 We have to do a follow-up episode where you just listen to rumors. 02:03:24.092 --> 02:03:26.492 Just you reacting to listening to rumors. 02:03:26.692 --> 02:03:29.292 Like, where is this guy been? 02:03:30.212 --> 02:03:34.212 But, you know, one of the things that I did think about that I think is worth 02:03:34.212 --> 02:03:39.032 pointing out is that I think that I've been a little bit of a harsher critic 02:03:39.032 --> 02:03:44.072 on this throughout this process, because a lot of these aren't really for me. 02:03:44.212 --> 02:03:47.112 But yesterday when I was thinking about this side, I was desperately trying 02:03:47.112 --> 02:03:49.292 to kind of dig into it. Yeah. 02:03:50.762 --> 02:03:55.942 I had to something that I think a lot of times we forget is that I'm listening 02:03:55.942 --> 02:03:58.062 to this from 2025 perspective. 02:03:58.342 --> 02:04:02.722 I came up and for the first time and for the first time, a lot of the music 02:04:02.722 --> 02:04:06.222 that I like tends to be more complex. It tends to be more produced. 02:04:06.402 --> 02:04:12.102 It tends to be faster. But all of that is a result of the evolution of music over the years. 02:04:12.442 --> 02:04:17.362 Like this could have an entirely different effect listening to it at the time. 02:04:17.362 --> 02:04:20.482 Like it may have come off as very experimental when it came out. 02:04:20.762 --> 02:04:25.262 Whereas nowadays, having heard the results of that experiment and then seen 02:04:25.262 --> 02:04:30.502 people iterate and iterate and iterate that, like, I guess I just want to give 02:04:30.502 --> 02:04:34.402 the band credit for, like, they wanted to try something and they did. 02:04:34.662 --> 02:04:38.762 And that's going out on a limb is a hard thing, especially, I mean, 02:04:38.802 --> 02:04:42.682 like what you just said, like, if their previous albums were a lot easier to 02:04:42.682 --> 02:04:45.782 digest, and this is more complex and challenging, 02:04:46.162 --> 02:04:50.122 like, it may not be my thing, but that's okay. 02:04:50.122 --> 02:04:53.022 Like um because it 02:04:53.022 --> 02:04:56.042 probably i don't know i don't know if this one of those albums where 02:04:56.042 --> 02:04:58.882 you know you hear about that stuff from time to time where there 02:04:58.882 --> 02:05:05.462 are less popular albums that then become like major influences like people talk 02:05:05.462 --> 02:05:10.422 about like oh the first time i listened to tusk it just changed my whole thoughts 02:05:10.422 --> 02:05:15.622 about how music could be created yeah um so there's a very good possibility 02:05:15.622 --> 02:05:18.602 that i'm missing out a little bit of that just because of where i'm coming from. 02:05:19.502 --> 02:05:24.242 But I just I guess I wanted to temper a little bit of my my harsh critiques 02:05:24.242 --> 02:05:28.662 of this album by saying that, like, you know, I'm coming to this from an entirely different viewpoint. 02:05:28.662 --> 02:05:37.502 Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's part of what I want to do with this is to say like, hey, what? 02:05:38.942 --> 02:05:43.902 I mean, it doesn't help the listener much, I guess, if we are able to like perfectly 02:05:43.902 --> 02:05:49.402 replicate what people would have reacted to in the late 70s. 02:05:49.402 --> 02:05:55.682 But, yeah, I have felt kind of that way about this album, 02:05:56.022 --> 02:06:01.042 similar to how I feel about almost like the individual tracks of like, 02:06:01.282 --> 02:06:08.082 it doesn't leave a good first impression and it's tough to make it through. 02:06:08.082 --> 02:06:11.982 But if you get to the end of it what 02:06:11.982 --> 02:06:15.542 you'll find is a thought that 02:06:15.542 --> 02:06:18.442 has been like executed on 02:06:18.442 --> 02:06:21.342 well you know a lot of these songs like 02:06:21.342 --> 02:06:24.282 don't have good beginnings and so i think that's something i'm i'm 02:06:24.282 --> 02:06:27.602 like constantly having this friction with of like if 02:06:27.602 --> 02:06:30.862 you just did this today you would have just done this and you 02:06:30.862 --> 02:06:36.562 wouldn't have even needed to change much of anything just do this do you know 02:06:36.562 --> 02:06:41.382 you this thing that I really actually don't like when other people do I'm trying 02:06:41.382 --> 02:06:45.042 not to do it of like oh this movie would have been good if you just cut this 02:06:45.042 --> 02:06:48.962 scene sure and it's and so it is it's. 02:06:49.917 --> 02:06:53.317 I mean, it's a difference between taking it as it is, right? 02:06:53.557 --> 02:06:57.277 And I mean, you know, in my other stuff where I get into video games, 02:06:57.417 --> 02:07:00.597 a lot of times people will judge a product based on something that that product 02:07:00.597 --> 02:07:03.617 never said that it was going to do, never gave me an impression it was going 02:07:03.617 --> 02:07:06.517 to do, and yet it's being judged harshly for not doing something. 02:07:06.517 --> 02:07:10.797 And that is irritating. But by the same token, there's also, 02:07:11.157 --> 02:07:15.737 I think, an instinct in a lot of people who make art and who have been in production, 02:07:15.737 --> 02:07:20.017 especially editing, which I've both done a lot where you say, 02:07:20.177 --> 02:07:24.477 oh, man, I can just see some places where if you just had just. 02:07:24.477 --> 02:07:25.597 Do this and move this. 02:07:25.597 --> 02:07:28.597 Up and you just move this down here, you put this course over here, 02:07:28.757 --> 02:07:31.797 it would have it would have been a lot more. 02:07:32.957 --> 02:07:35.177 And those two things are hard to square. 02:07:35.437 --> 02:07:35.837 Absolutely. 02:07:38.617 --> 02:07:53.097 I hope that the listeners at least can take away some sense of the thought process at the time. 02:07:53.917 --> 02:07:58.417 I think that's probably the most objective goal I can try to have on this. 02:07:58.417 --> 02:08:04.317 It's like, I hope we can at least create some sort of a line between point A 02:08:04.317 --> 02:08:08.777 and point B of how these people thought, how they acted, 02:08:09.157 --> 02:08:16.117 and what their headspace was when making this music. 02:08:16.117 --> 02:08:25.457 Because i don't i don't think that it represents it doesn't represent a modern, 02:08:27.337 --> 02:08:32.377 sensibility this is not the way you make an album now but it also wasn't really the way you made an, 02:08:35.220 --> 02:08:44.200 So I just want to try to understand why I'm getting away from being objective. But why did you do this? 02:08:44.660 --> 02:08:48.440 Well, that's okay, too, because this is, I mean, music is about taste, 02:08:48.640 --> 02:08:52.560 right? Everybody has a different taste. There's just such thing as like an objectively perfect song. 02:08:53.200 --> 02:08:53.560 Yeah. 02:08:53.820 --> 02:08:58.880 Like, you know, you can probably play this entire album at 1.5x for me, 02:08:59.000 --> 02:09:00.660 and I would have maybe enjoyed it more. 02:09:00.700 --> 02:09:01.680 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 02:09:01.800 --> 02:09:02.560 Just because I like hierarchy. 02:09:02.560 --> 02:09:10.640 That would have made you like the ledge, just a little bit. yeah i um i just 02:09:10.640 --> 02:09:16.580 think it's it's so fascinating and with all of the stories i mean there are i i, 02:09:17.340 --> 02:09:20.220 think it's kind of also self-evident like why 02:09:20.220 --> 02:09:24.600 this band is attracts attention just 02:09:24.600 --> 02:09:30.460 because these stories are not primal 02:09:30.460 --> 02:09:36.620 but they do feel primary like 02:09:36.620 --> 02:09:39.540 rumors is about you know people who broke 02:09:39.540 --> 02:09:45.080 up and it's about your headspace and if you could say something to the person 02:09:45.080 --> 02:09:52.880 who broke up with you yeah and that's so enticing you know i mean it's no i 02:09:52.880 --> 02:09:56.920 don't think it's a mistake that the band even... 02:09:56.920 --> 02:10:01.840 The image of the band and even the band will accept the image that they are 02:10:01.840 --> 02:10:05.680 the musical soap opera. But you know what? They are. 02:10:06.340 --> 02:10:08.120 And they made some good songs. 02:10:09.640 --> 02:10:10.160 And... 02:10:13.348 --> 02:10:17.128 End of thought process, I guess. And I would like to make content. 02:10:17.328 --> 02:10:22.008 No, I definitely, that is something that's unique about this. 02:10:22.148 --> 02:10:24.228 And in thinking about it while you were just talking, it was like, 02:10:24.368 --> 02:10:29.948 I don't necessarily think that I, like, listening to Sgt. 02:10:30.068 --> 02:10:33.348 Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, I don't feel like I know anything about what 02:10:33.348 --> 02:10:37.888 was going on in, you know, John Lennon's personal life based on those tracks. 02:10:37.888 --> 02:10:43.228 Whereas this is like a reality TV show where we're throwing drinks at people's faces. 02:10:43.388 --> 02:10:45.488 We got, we're going back and forth. 02:10:45.788 --> 02:10:50.688 We've got, you said, we got, she said, um, and there is, there is an attraction there. 02:10:50.788 --> 02:10:54.708 I think that it would be interesting to get the impression of somebody who had 02:10:54.708 --> 02:10:59.548 never listened to this before, who knows about the personal lives of the band, 02:10:59.688 --> 02:11:01.408 but then hasn't listened to this album. 02:11:01.568 --> 02:11:06.048 And then what did, what is their impression from just listening to this with 02:11:06.048 --> 02:11:09.208 a deeper, uh understanding of those. 02:11:09.208 --> 02:11:12.568 Relationships so i mean and i think that's 02:11:12.568 --> 02:11:16.408 another place where like this band is really poised 02:11:16.408 --> 02:11:19.888 to look flea 02:11:19.888 --> 02:11:25.108 and mac charted a few years ago yeah because of like a tiktok trend that went 02:11:25.108 --> 02:11:32.508 viral like there's still some magic in that old top hat sure sure even if lindsey's 02:11:32.508 --> 02:11:38.388 not even in the band anymore like there's something about it that that, 02:11:39.868 --> 02:11:48.888 attracts attention and i think it's very noble that the music is also good yeah you know um, 02:11:49.688 --> 02:11:53.268 in high school i listened to 02:11:53.268 --> 02:11:56.108 a lot of japanese pop music and a lot of these like 02:11:56.108 --> 02:12:01.508 girly girl groups like idol groups yeah and i 02:12:01.508 --> 02:12:07.108 look back at that time now and maybe 02:12:07.108 --> 02:12:10.068 maybe i'm finding some shades here that most people won't 02:12:10.068 --> 02:12:16.708 but um the the groups that like the big group that i liked there's a big like 02:12:16.708 --> 02:12:20.708 umbrella group around it part of why i liked them was because the guy who made 02:12:20.708 --> 02:12:26.668 their music was a rock star he like legitimately wrote tons of songs he wrote 02:12:26.668 --> 02:12:29.428 hundreds of songs for these bands um. 02:12:33.089 --> 02:12:38.169 And whatever you felt about the singers or the outfits or the like the end of 02:12:38.169 --> 02:12:40.469 the day, there was also so good music under there. 02:12:40.549 --> 02:12:40.729 Sure. 02:12:40.869 --> 02:12:46.009 You know, this is the guy who does the music for Rhythm Heaven, by the way. 02:12:46.109 --> 02:12:46.309 OK. 02:12:46.469 --> 02:12:49.409 It's that like, oh, like, like there's something there. 02:12:49.409 --> 02:12:54.929 And so I feel strangely, just to go from like the fucking purity of Japanese 02:12:54.929 --> 02:13:02.509 idols to fucking 79 Fleetwood Mac, I feel a similar sense of like the music is here and it's whole. 02:13:02.969 --> 02:13:10.109 Even if the music itself isn't experimental, this is a five-piece band that gave it their whole. 02:13:10.109 --> 02:13:17.589 I um when when i was looking up um like what to name this album i almost called 02:13:17.589 --> 02:13:24.789 this um a noble failure because there's like a whole thing about like what a noble failure is and, 02:13:25.849 --> 02:13:29.149 i think potentially tusk falls 02:13:29.149 --> 02:13:33.409 under that of like uh this band trying to make the most of their opportunity 02:13:33.409 --> 02:13:41.989 fully committing to everything that they do um and even if the results are relatively 02:13:41.989 --> 02:13:47.309 only 4 million copies oh only 4 million only 4. 02:13:47.309 --> 02:13:50.689 Million copies geez why even bother at that point. 02:13:50.689 --> 02:13:58.589 Um any other thoughts on tusk as a whole piece of text before we go into some other stuff no. 02:13:58.589 --> 02:14:04.369 I think that that kind of wraps it up an interesting i i think an interesting mess is maybe how i. 02:14:04.369 --> 02:14:05.469 Would say. 02:14:05.469 --> 02:14:11.169 There's a lot of ups and downs and some of it is great and some of it bored me to tears but uh. 02:14:11.169 --> 02:14:12.329 That's music yeah. 02:14:12.329 --> 02:14:13.209 That's how it is. 02:14:13.209 --> 02:14:16.529 So so after tusk comes out in 1979 02:14:16.529 --> 02:14:19.249 um the band ends up going on the 02:14:19.249 --> 02:14:22.169 tusk tour okay um the video that making 02:14:22.169 --> 02:14:24.989 of comes out even later they were like 02:14:24.989 --> 02:14:27.789 technical issues or something so it doesn't come out 02:14:27.789 --> 02:14:31.049 around the same time um and that 02:14:31.049 --> 02:14:36.309 tour i suppose really um 02:14:36.309 --> 02:14:39.749 really maybe permanent 02:14:39.749 --> 02:14:43.489 finalizes some of the the frustrations 02:14:43.489 --> 02:14:46.749 in the band some of the resentment or 02:14:46.749 --> 02:14:50.969 anger um they've members 02:14:50.969 --> 02:14:54.589 of the band have talked after the fact later that you know 02:14:54.589 --> 02:14:58.789 recording the albums is really difficult and 02:14:58.789 --> 02:15:06.609 going on tour is like five times as difficult um and i absolutely see why you're 02:15:06.609 --> 02:15:14.449 constantly in a new place you you're in the band that has as much drugs and 02:15:14.449 --> 02:15:18.029 drink as they want at all times um, 02:15:19.059 --> 02:15:26.159 Not to mention, there's probably a good amount of fucking going on in a band 02:15:26.159 --> 02:15:28.659 with people who fucking hate each other. 02:15:28.839 --> 02:15:28.919 Right. 02:15:28.999 --> 02:15:31.299 So, like, that's also really stressful. 02:15:31.599 --> 02:15:36.839 Also, I can't, I mean, interject, I can't imagine what it's like to then have 02:15:36.839 --> 02:15:41.779 to get up night after night and sing some of these emotionally raw songs. 02:15:41.779 --> 02:15:46.839 And there's got to be, I don't know, but there's got to be some kind of emotional 02:15:46.839 --> 02:15:54.039 calculus about like, do I keep poking at this wound to get a good rendition of this emotional song? 02:15:54.139 --> 02:16:00.699 Or do I let it become this degraded version because I've squeezed all the emotion 02:16:00.699 --> 02:16:02.679 out of it and we're just kind of going through the motions? 02:16:02.679 --> 02:16:07.019 Like, how do you sing what makes you think you're the one like three times a 02:16:07.019 --> 02:16:10.539 week with the with with the emotion of what's going on on this album? 02:16:10.759 --> 02:16:10.959 Yeah. 02:16:11.299 --> 02:16:17.219 And not like and then like those wounds that begat these songs that never heal 02:16:17.219 --> 02:16:20.659 because you just keep opening them up night after night for a big group of people 02:16:20.659 --> 02:16:21.779 screaming and cheering. 02:16:22.219 --> 02:16:26.959 And then, yeah, then go back and do a bunch of drugs and have weird sex or whatever. 02:16:26.959 --> 02:16:33.419 Yeah, I mean, because you go through all of this and the reward is you continue 02:16:33.419 --> 02:16:36.119 to have your lavish lifestyle of excess. 02:16:36.399 --> 02:16:42.179 People tell you that you're still geniuses, even when you make like the funky weird art album. 02:16:42.339 --> 02:16:42.459 Yep. 02:16:45.579 --> 02:16:48.399 So that kind of happens. 02:16:48.499 --> 02:16:53.539 A lot of the recording during the Tusk tour becomes Fleetwood Mac Live, 02:16:53.699 --> 02:16:55.619 which we've heard pieces of. 02:16:55.619 --> 02:16:59.019 Um tusk and sarah are 02:16:59.019 --> 02:17:02.919 singles and they are moderately successful i 02:17:02.919 --> 02:17:07.559 think there's a small fun fact that in the uk tusk at 02:17:07.559 --> 02:17:11.619 the time maybe still but at the time because 02:17:11.619 --> 02:17:15.199 it charted in the uk it was like the 02:17:15.199 --> 02:17:21.079 song with the most number of musicians in it to chart okay because there's 120 02:17:21.079 --> 02:17:28.199 20 some people sure um after tusk the band doesn't put out another album until 02:17:28.199 --> 02:17:31.799 1982's barrage um but in that meantime, 02:17:33.128 --> 02:17:37.028 uh stevie nicks goes and has her solo career bella donna comes out and is a 02:17:37.028 --> 02:17:43.208 pretty big hit lindsey releases an album called law and order um and those are 02:17:43.208 --> 02:17:45.948 more tepidly received yeah, 02:17:46.568 --> 02:17:52.828 lindsey's got um this song called trouble which is kind of a kind of a hit but 02:17:52.828 --> 02:17:59.308 it's also this very like kind of watery song so whatever um the band would get 02:17:59.308 --> 02:18:01.148 together to do mirage they, 02:18:02.068 --> 02:18:06.208 they got back to do like a pop album we're going to get richard dash it back 02:18:06.208 --> 02:18:10.488 from rumors he's going we're going to make a pop album and we're going to do 02:18:10.488 --> 02:18:11.908 it in france for some reason i'm. 02:18:11.908 --> 02:18:13.788 Going to recapture the magic of our youth. 02:18:13.788 --> 02:18:14.828 It's going to be great. 02:18:14.828 --> 02:18:16.908 It's going to be just exactly like it was. 02:18:17.408 --> 02:18:26.888 And mirage is a fine album yeah it's a fine album um then eventually uh uh you know it'd be a few 02:18:27.038 --> 02:18:29.738 years and they the band would be working on tango in the 02:18:29.738 --> 02:18:33.378 night after tango is done lindsey ends 02:18:33.378 --> 02:18:36.578 up leaving the band right before they go on tour like two 02:18:36.578 --> 02:18:39.458 weeks before they go on like they're the band have gotten together to 02:18:39.458 --> 02:18:42.178 sign the contracts to go on tour and he 02:18:42.178 --> 02:18:44.898 says i'm not going to go on tour i'm leaving the band which leads 02:18:44.898 --> 02:18:47.918 to like a a fucking brawl like stevie 02:18:47.918 --> 02:18:50.938 attacks him and chases him outside it's a it's a 02:18:50.938 --> 02:18:54.818 fucking wow whole thing um 02:18:54.818 --> 02:18:58.018 and so he doesn't go on that tour they 02:18:58.018 --> 02:19:02.938 end up getting these other two guitarists to replace him um the band goes on 02:19:02.938 --> 02:19:12.138 tour the band tries to cover without him then 1994 or 93 bill clinton is on 02:19:12.138 --> 02:19:16.778 the campaign trail and is using Fleetwood Mac's Don't Stop as his campaign song, 02:19:16.938 --> 02:19:21.098 which leads to a small reunion in 94 of the band performing Don't Stop. 02:19:21.718 --> 02:19:27.978 And then their big reunion would be in 1997 for The Dance, where Lindsay would come back. 02:19:28.138 --> 02:19:32.178 They produced this live video and album. 02:19:33.538 --> 02:19:38.038 You may have seen it, honestly, for some of the ubiquity of it at the time. 02:19:38.998 --> 02:19:42.818 Um and then they end up going on tour again kind 02:19:42.818 --> 02:19:46.218 of in this new reunited uh mac okay 02:19:46.218 --> 02:19:49.678 um christine leaves a little bit after that um and 02:19:49.678 --> 02:19:52.818 then and then say you will comes out in 2003 and then 02:19:52.818 --> 02:19:58.958 that's kind of the fleetwood mac story um there's there's i mean i gave that 02:19:58.958 --> 02:20:03.778 was even longer than i expected that to go but um this is a band with a lot 02:20:03.778 --> 02:20:08.438 of story and it is a musical soap opera but I just wish there were better words 02:20:08.438 --> 02:20:10.278 to describe it like that, 02:20:10.398 --> 02:20:13.318 because it just feels unfortunately cheap. 02:20:13.538 --> 02:20:20.158 If you call it that. I guess maybe something to just, as we talk about this chaotic period, 02:20:21.158 --> 02:20:25.978 I don't really, you know, of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks is really the only 02:20:25.978 --> 02:20:28.658 person I was familiar with before we started this. 02:20:30.358 --> 02:20:31.958 Was Lindsay Buckingham considered... 02:20:33.015 --> 02:20:35.875 Talented, like a, like a, like a talented, cause I mean like, 02:20:35.935 --> 02:20:41.195 yeah, he seems experimental, but he doesn't seem as experimental as some of 02:20:41.195 --> 02:20:43.555 the other acts that I've been able to think of. 02:20:43.815 --> 02:20:43.955 Yeah. 02:20:44.535 --> 02:20:48.555 Um, and then when he does the kind of basic stuff, he seems fine at it, 02:20:48.615 --> 02:20:54.515 but at no point does his guitar seem as good as some of the big notable guitarists that are out there. 02:20:54.715 --> 02:20:58.635 His vocals aren't, are fine, but they're not like, you know, something. 02:20:58.635 --> 02:20:59.615 That a. 02:20:59.615 --> 02:21:03.835 World-class musician that everybody knows like i be honest with you there's 02:21:03.835 --> 02:21:08.355 a lot of these songs where it was like christine and lindsey i could i had a 02:21:08.355 --> 02:21:11.315 hard time telling between the two of them so. 02:21:11.315 --> 02:21:15.995 I would say that he uh 02:21:15.995 --> 02:21:19.255 i would say that lindsey's like saddest right now 02:21:19.255 --> 02:21:22.515 is like as an underappreciated guitarist okay 02:21:22.515 --> 02:21:25.955 um that said like i 02:21:25.955 --> 02:21:29.955 think if you look at this this whole resume 02:21:29.955 --> 02:21:33.075 of his time in fleetwood mac that there's 02:21:33.075 --> 02:21:35.915 probably enough points where you go like that does 02:21:35.915 --> 02:21:43.375 seem questionable that maybe on a technique on technical reasons you would like 02:21:43.375 --> 02:21:50.195 not have him be you know some sort of like mount rushmore type figure like i 02:21:50.195 --> 02:21:55.175 think tusk probably does a lot of damage to the idea that he's a great guitar player well. 02:21:55.175 --> 02:21:58.875 And then also it seems like i mean just from the chronology that you laid out 02:21:58.875 --> 02:22:03.655 that like i again i don't know if i'm just making stuff up but what it sounds 02:22:03.655 --> 02:22:07.955 like is that he thought he was a genius himself and. 02:22:07.955 --> 02:22:09.455 You know oh. 02:22:09.455 --> 02:22:13.455 You guys are just holding me back and then you go out and don't actually manage 02:22:13.455 --> 02:22:16.475 to put anything out that that manages to wow people that. 02:22:16.475 --> 02:22:17.235 His strength. 02:22:17.235 --> 02:22:18.655 Was more as a part of this band. 02:22:18.655 --> 02:22:19.575 And not necessarily. 02:22:19.575 --> 02:22:23.855 As a solo entity in the way that like stevie nicks um. 02:22:23.855 --> 02:22:27.615 I could see that i mean it's definitely his assertion here 02:22:27.615 --> 02:22:34.475 by the time they're making tusk that what he can bring to the band is not just 02:22:34.475 --> 02:22:41.775 guitar playing but is in studio skills you know i don't just play the guitar 02:22:41.775 --> 02:22:47.575 i help everyone finish their songs i help make sure the albums sound good now. 02:22:47.575 --> 02:22:48.575 Build my bathroom. 02:22:50.695 --> 02:22:54.715 And and i don't i don't think that that's, 02:22:57.335 --> 02:23:02.095 even inherently wrong i don't think that there's anything that says that that's 02:23:02.095 --> 02:23:07.015 not true you know i think it's very possible that lindsey had a very big help 02:23:07.015 --> 02:23:17.075 a big hand in the production of rumors and parlayed that into a stronger hand in Tusk. Um... 02:23:19.617 --> 02:23:28.037 But I think he also has to be the one to take all of the response on the chin. Right. 02:23:28.097 --> 02:23:32.957 If you're going to be in charge, then when the plane comes down, 02:23:33.217 --> 02:23:34.617 it's going to come to you. 02:23:34.797 --> 02:23:40.657 So much so that on Tusk, on the actual printing of Tusk, it's on the vinyls. 02:23:41.237 --> 02:23:44.997 And I think you probably have it on the CD if I'm thinking about it. 02:23:44.997 --> 02:23:53.937 But um so they're you know uh tusk by fleetwood mac and every copy of tusk i've 02:23:53.937 --> 02:23:57.837 seen including the alternate tusk has another line says special thanks from 02:23:57.837 --> 02:24:02.377 the band to lindsey buckingham my goodness yeah wow yeah uh. 02:24:02.377 --> 02:24:07.597 I i'm starting to uh i'm starting to uh empathize with stevie dicks chasing 02:24:07.597 --> 02:24:08.757 him out in the parking lot. 02:24:08.757 --> 02:24:09.717 The ego. 02:24:09.717 --> 02:24:15.137 On this guy which i mean i don't know the the problem with this is that like 02:24:15.137 --> 02:24:19.497 it would be interesting to get into the you know the what if machine and. 02:24:19.497 --> 02:24:19.857 Be like. 02:24:19.857 --> 02:24:22.897 What what would tusk sound like without lindsey right. 02:24:22.897 --> 02:24:25.997 Oh may there there are 02:24:25.997 --> 02:24:29.497 what ifs maybe not the tusk one though um 02:24:29.497 --> 02:24:32.597 this one is a wild hair i'll leave to the audience yeah 02:24:32.597 --> 02:24:36.417 um in some point in get tusked 02:24:36.417 --> 02:24:40.517 i only caught this today but um the studio 02:24:40.517 --> 02:24:43.137 or i don't know if the record label or someone went back in and 02:24:43.137 --> 02:24:45.937 made a like 5.1 surround sound mix 02:24:45.937 --> 02:24:49.037 of tusk and i it sounded like there was 02:24:49.037 --> 02:24:52.157 a good amount of work from the engineering team 02:24:52.157 --> 02:24:55.197 to kind of maybe re-smooth tusk 02:24:55.197 --> 02:24:58.417 again in those 5.1 mixes okay 02:24:58.417 --> 02:25:01.337 but i don't i don't know enough about those 02:25:01.337 --> 02:25:05.357 to say to say more um just fascinating 02:25:05.357 --> 02:25:08.417 just because i mean 02:25:08.417 --> 02:25:11.297 not i i also 02:25:11.297 --> 02:25:14.477 think that like i've worked in plenty of collaborative 02:25:14.477 --> 02:25:18.817 and creative scenarios and i 02:25:18.817 --> 02:25:22.157 think i feel a certain amount of kinship to 02:25:22.157 --> 02:25:25.677 the scenarios and the stories of tusk of 02:25:25.677 --> 02:25:28.617 dealing with personalities dealing with outside 02:25:28.617 --> 02:25:32.357 voices dealing with technology and outside 02:25:32.357 --> 02:25:42.337 influences um and even uh you know at the time they had the they had the run 02:25:42.337 --> 02:25:48.617 of the land because they you know they had all this huge success yeah and even then. 02:25:50.036 --> 02:25:55.716 All that huge success was not an indicator that if you do it your way, 02:25:55.976 --> 02:25:58.956 it will be even more of the same. 02:25:59.196 --> 02:25:59.336 Sure. 02:25:59.576 --> 02:26:07.136 You know, it's complicated. Like this album, there's not necessarily one moral. 02:26:07.156 --> 02:26:12.396 It's just a lot of vignettes of what it's like to be dealing with a relationship. 02:26:12.716 --> 02:26:13.476 It's like life. 02:26:13.736 --> 02:26:14.316 It's like life. 02:26:17.136 --> 02:26:20.796 Before we head out, I want to do one last quick thing. We're going to send people 02:26:20.796 --> 02:26:27.076 out with a performance of Tusk from 1997 from The Dance. 02:26:27.276 --> 02:26:32.616 This is that big reunion where Lindsay came back and they're touring again. 02:26:32.756 --> 02:26:32.996 All right. 02:26:33.156 --> 02:26:38.396 So we're going to listen to a little bit of the live Tusk. 02:26:38.656 --> 02:26:38.776 Okay. 02:26:40.156 --> 02:26:43.976 Now imagine that in every city across America. 02:26:44.376 --> 02:26:48.276 It's very impressive. It's very impressive. And was that Lindsay? 02:26:48.756 --> 02:26:48.936 Yeah. 02:26:49.096 --> 02:26:49.456 Oh, okay. 02:26:49.596 --> 02:26:53.016 Yeah. So that was 1997, about 18 years after Tusk. 02:26:53.176 --> 02:26:56.796 Okay. I like that, Lindsay, more than what I heard on this album. 02:26:57.076 --> 02:27:01.576 Yeah. Even though I did miss a little bit of the kind of everybody's singing 02:27:01.576 --> 02:27:04.796 together, but I did appreciate the accordion. 02:27:05.096 --> 02:27:05.256 Yeah. 02:27:05.396 --> 02:27:08.536 And then I felt bad for Stevie because she didn't really have anything to do with it. 02:27:08.576 --> 02:27:12.816 She was going to shake, she was going to shake, and then her tambourine is not being picked up at all. 02:27:12.936 --> 02:27:13.076 Yep. 02:27:14.076 --> 02:27:18.856 Yeah. So that's a clip from The Dance, which they got a Grammy for that. 02:27:19.036 --> 02:27:19.396 Oh, okay. 02:27:19.396 --> 02:27:22.196 So like, hey, you know what? Maybe there's some magic in that hat. 02:27:22.356 --> 02:27:22.576 Sure. 02:27:24.016 --> 02:27:28.756 All right. Well, that's going to do it here for PsyD. And I think that'll do it here for Two Tusks. 02:27:28.876 --> 02:27:28.956 Cool. 02:27:29.096 --> 02:27:32.216 Unless we find some reason to come back again. But thank you, 02:27:32.296 --> 02:27:33.316 Jeff, for joining me on this journey. 02:27:33.456 --> 02:27:33.916 Yeah, no problem. 02:27:34.196 --> 02:27:36.716 Thank you to the listeners for joining us. And we are going to send you out 02:27:36.716 --> 02:27:40.656 with the dance version of Tusk. Thank you. Have a good one.