1 00:00:00,390 --> 00:00:01,330 And I like Millei. 2 00:00:02,410 --> 00:00:03,630 Who doesn't? 3 00:00:05,510 --> 00:00:07,590 Okay, you guys are stars in the podcast 4 00:00:07,590 --> 00:00:07,930 now. 5 00:00:33,420 --> 00:00:33,900 Out! 6 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:38,420 Sorry for the poor sound quality. 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,100 In the first recording, I didn't want the 8 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:41,960 mic to fully cooperate with the background noise, 9 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:43,700 so it's a bit messy, but it'll get 10 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:44,060 better later. 11 00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:47,600 I say, I call them in Norwegian, Sofa 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:48,260 Kommunister. 13 00:00:50,060 --> 00:00:52,700 Glory, glory, my people. 14 00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:55,540 Your enemies are coming. 15 00:00:55,980 --> 00:00:57,580 God is with you. 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,520 You will win. 17 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:02,020 I mean, definitely not the New York Times. 18 00:01:05,420 --> 00:01:05,940 Liberty! 19 00:01:06,580 --> 00:01:06,840 Liberty! 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:14,600 Liberty! 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,440 It's very easy to be a communist in 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:21,280 a free country. 23 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:23,720 Try being free in a communist country, and 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:24,800 then we'll talk about it. 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:26,540 Can I ask why you're here? 26 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:30,280 We're here to support Maria Corina, of course. 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,260 Do you have any thoughts about anti-demonstrations? 28 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:35,120 No, I don't. 29 00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:37,100 We're used to it. 30 00:01:40,940 --> 00:01:42,680 I've been interested in it every year. 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:43,580 Have you been here many years? 32 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:44,320 Many years, yes. 33 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:44,900 In Oslo Freedom. 34 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Can you briefly explain what you're here for? 35 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:49,940 Oslo Freedom Forum is a conference on human 36 00:01:49,940 --> 00:01:53,960 rights, democracy, but also technology, art, everything. 37 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,340 It's a conference in Oslo every year. 38 00:01:57,340 --> 00:02:01,220 It's been here since 2009, and there are 39 00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:03,040 about 1,500 people in the conference. 40 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:08,160 Do you think this is a good Freedom 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:08,300 Forum? 42 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:10,100 I think it's a very good conference. 43 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:15,140 I was also on the TV show, and 44 00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:19,880 I think the committee leaders held a fantastic 45 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:20,220 conference. 46 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,260 They really said everything. 47 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,280 Ola Elveston, Freedom Forum. 48 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,660 What do you think of the opposition to 49 00:02:27,660 --> 00:02:28,140 this Freedom Forum? 50 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:30,000 It's completely incomprehensible. 51 00:02:30,660 --> 00:02:33,940 They're going to support the Maduro dictatorship in 52 00:02:33,940 --> 00:02:34,260 Venezuela. 53 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,060 This is a very valuable Freedom Forum winner. 54 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,820 It's about supporting freedom and democracy in Venezuela, 55 00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:47,940 and it needs stronger international support, because the 56 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:51,560 demonstrations that have been against it are quite 57 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,080 incomprehensible. 58 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,580 Maduro is already actively used in his speeches. 59 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,080 In many ways, they're being used by the 60 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,360 dictator to support himself, and it shouldn't be 61 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:07,460 that simple. 62 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,000 Here we need to support the Freedom Forum 63 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,520 winner and the fight for freedom and democracy. 64 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:17,820 It seems like there's a political dividing line. 65 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:23,560 It's the far left, perhaps, which is more 66 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,220 represented in the demonstrations against the Freedom Forum, 67 00:03:26,580 --> 00:03:28,960 and which has shown support for the regime 68 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,320 before. 69 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:31,920 This has been a longer problem, that the 70 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,640 far left in Latin America has supported the 71 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,680 oppressive regime. 72 00:03:37,780 --> 00:03:41,100 They've done it in Cuba, in Venezuela, for 73 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:43,180 a longer time, in Caracas. 74 00:03:43,180 --> 00:03:46,900 Here we need a clearer line. 75 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,000 What we need to support is a development 76 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,840 of freedom and democracy in Latin America in 77 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,180 general, and we need to support the process 78 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:58,700 and the free elections, even if you disagree 79 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:00,560 with who you vote for. 80 00:04:00,860 --> 00:04:02,420 Do you have any thoughts about... 81 00:04:02,420 --> 00:04:04,840 There are several leaders from South America who 82 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:05,900 are here today. 83 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Among others, if you listen to NRK, there's 84 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,840 also the far right president in Argentina, Javier 85 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,260 Milei, and it's the crazy people who have 86 00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:17,339 come to support this. 87 00:04:17,660 --> 00:04:19,680 There are four presidents who have voted for 88 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,240 me on the right, but there's no doubt 89 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,120 that all four have voted for free elections, 90 00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:29,180 and that's the development we need to support 91 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:34,980 in Venezuela, and to support it also in 92 00:04:34,980 --> 00:04:36,120 Latin America. 93 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,200 There's no doubt that these countries, if you 94 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,820 look over time, are also in a democratic 95 00:04:42,820 --> 00:04:46,140 development, and the important thing is not to 96 00:04:46,140 --> 00:04:49,780 have a very strong position on who they 97 00:04:49,780 --> 00:04:51,440 are, but to support and hope that there 98 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,120 will also be free elections in the future. 99 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,120 We're standing here by the torchlight, hanging outside 100 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,760 Grand Hotel, waiting for the balcony doors to 101 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:01,980 open. 102 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:03,060 The torches are burning. 103 00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:04,940 There's quite a lot of space here. 104 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,660 Yes, there's a lot of space in the 105 00:05:06,660 --> 00:05:08,720 hallway, and in the front. 106 00:05:09,260 --> 00:05:10,400 The torches are burning everywhere. 107 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:13,240 This is actually a bit stylish, don't you 108 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:13,460 think, Arne? 109 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,640 I got to see it. 110 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:19,080 When I got the news that the peace 111 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,940 council didn't want to arrange a torchlight this 112 00:05:20,940 --> 00:05:23,940 year, I saw that it sounded very sad. 113 00:05:24,380 --> 00:05:27,320 But here it's full of people, and not 114 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:28,940 least we're standing up. 115 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Are you sad to say that the peace 116 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,280 council didn't make a difference in the world 117 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:34,700 at some point? 118 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,280 No, I agree. 119 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:42,320 It's worth underlining liberalism as a movement for 120 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:42,420 freedom. 121 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,620 Freedom, love, freedom. 122 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:05,140 Is there a large population of Venezuelans in 123 00:06:05,140 --> 00:06:05,400 Norway? 124 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:35,120 Are there, in general, amongst the Venezuelans, support 125 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,020 for the peace price? 126 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:38,840 Or are you sort of on the other 127 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:39,280 side of that? 128 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:39,780 No, no, no. 129 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,780 I am thinking, in general, for most of 130 00:06:42,780 --> 00:06:44,880 the opinion in Venezuela. 131 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,400 The majority in Venezuela think that this price 132 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,520 is very acceptable, in any case. 133 00:06:55,740 --> 00:06:56,480 Yes, for sure. 134 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,020 It's a good price. 135 00:06:58,020 --> 00:06:59,180 It's a good price. 136 00:06:59,620 --> 00:07:00,460 It's a deserving nominee. 137 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,080 Yes, for sure. 138 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,260 It shows that the fighting is still ongoing, 139 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:08,620 and we work with the same target. 140 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:11,880 It's very important for the Venezuelan population. 141 00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:12,640 Yes, for sure. 142 00:07:12,740 --> 00:07:15,380 Do you have any particular reactions to the 143 00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:17,140 counter-demonstrations? 144 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,720 Now they're not very present today, but there 145 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,860 were some demonstrations yesterday against the nomination. 146 00:07:24,860 --> 00:07:27,500 OK, you know, in any case, we have 147 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:30,320 people in favor and people against. 148 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:32,920 It's a normal situation. 149 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,840 And that is democracy, when you can accept 150 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,400 both sides. 151 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,480 It's acceptable, but both sides have to respect 152 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:42,660 the other side. 153 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,140 It's the condition for me. 154 00:07:44,580 --> 00:07:48,660 It's important, but everybody can think according to 155 00:07:48,660 --> 00:07:50,300 his opinion or whatever. 156 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:51,640 But it's OK for me. 157 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,200 But now we have other demonstrations that support 158 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,000 the celebration for Maria Corina Machado. 159 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:02,180 Yesterday was the other concentration, a parade, for 160 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:05,220 encountering Maria Corina. 161 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,080 But this, for me, is democracy. 162 00:08:08,260 --> 00:08:10,660 What is your own view on Maria Corina? 163 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:14,520 For sure, Maria is a good leader. 164 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:19,540 She represents all the opinions for Venezuela. 165 00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:23,700 Not now, but maybe in the future she 166 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:25,500 will be the president of Venezuela as well. 167 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:26,480 It's important. 168 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,840 She is a very good leader and also 169 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,640 has keeping the spirit and the target for 170 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,220 the most of the Venezuelan population. 171 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,559 She is already elected, after all. 172 00:08:39,020 --> 00:08:41,080 OK, it's El Mundo González. 173 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:42,460 You're right. 174 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,360 It's her proxy. 175 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:46,360 Yes, for sure. 176 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:48,120 Thank you so much. 177 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,720 Thank you for giving me the opportunity for 178 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,020 talking. 179 00:08:51,460 --> 00:08:55,580 Who are you? 180 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:57,100 I am Johan. 181 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:57,800 Johan? 182 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:58,260 Yes. 183 00:08:58,620 --> 00:08:59,560 Why are you here today? 184 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,060 I have lived in Venezuela. 185 00:09:01,460 --> 00:09:01,780 Oh, you have? 186 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:02,400 Yes. 187 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:03,340 That's great. 188 00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:06,560 I have lived there when Chavez had power. 189 00:09:07,780 --> 00:09:13,000 And I have a good relationship with Venezuela. 190 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,340 That's why I say that I am extremely 191 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:21,140 critical of the regime. 192 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,580 In your own opinion, for a good reason. 193 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:26,000 Yes, for a very good reason. 194 00:09:26,860 --> 00:09:30,280 Can I ask what you think about the 195 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,100 demonstrations yesterday? 196 00:09:33,460 --> 00:09:34,260 Yes. 197 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,840 Do you have any thoughts about that? 198 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:49,460 I have never been to Venezuela and I 199 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:53,460 have never experienced living in such a country. 200 00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:57,600 If I had, I would not have participated 201 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,660 in such a demonstration. 202 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:00,080 This is a joke. 203 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:10,040 You are very concerned about getting Maria Machado 204 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,860 to say that she is keeping a distance 205 00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:21,000 from the Americans bombing boats. 206 00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:25,080 This is a total detour. 207 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:27,020 Of course she is against it. 208 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:29,460 But it is very difficult for her to 209 00:10:29,460 --> 00:10:32,760 express something that is critical today. 210 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,080 It's a bit strange to ask people to 211 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,660 keep a distance from the Piranhas when there 212 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:41,060 is a shark attacking you. 213 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:41,860 Yes, that's right. 214 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,020 In Maduro. 215 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:44,180 Yes. 216 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,060 It looks like someone has arrived on the 217 00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:46,340 balcony. 218 00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:47,440 It's probably the daughter. 219 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:48,700 Yes, it's the daughter. 220 00:10:49,340 --> 00:10:52,280 Do you have any relationship with Maria Corinna? 221 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:53,560 Not at all. 222 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,600 But do you have any impression of her? 223 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,160 I think she is a tough lady. 224 00:10:58,780 --> 00:11:01,720 And I think you have to be if 225 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:08,380 you want to be an opponent to the 226 00:11:08,380 --> 00:11:08,480 regime. 227 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:10,280 I think she is smart. 228 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,180 And I think she is tactically smart. 229 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:16,800 But she is incredibly demanding. 230 00:11:19,180 --> 00:11:21,520 So, may I ask what your name is? 231 00:11:21,820 --> 00:11:22,420 Ivana. 232 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:23,100 Ivana. 233 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:25,280 So, I stopped by you because you have 234 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,680 this beautiful dress in Venezuelan colors. 235 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:28,980 Yes. 236 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:30,660 Very striking. 237 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:31,080 Yes. 238 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:33,300 May I ask why you are here tonight? 239 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:34,540 Yes. 240 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,180 Well, I live in Trondheim. 241 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,200 I moved from Venezuela in 2009. 242 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,380 And I have lived in this beautiful country 243 00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:46,980 that has given me education and good working 244 00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:47,320 opportunities. 245 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,240 But I had to flee my country because 246 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,360 of the situation. 247 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,780 Not only the political, because what I can 248 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:58,100 say now looking back is that it's not 249 00:11:58,100 --> 00:11:58,920 left or right. 250 00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:03,360 It's just criminal people against defenseless people. 251 00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:04,960 That's what is happening to us. 252 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,620 And that's why I had to leave my 253 00:12:06,620 --> 00:12:07,300 beautiful country. 254 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,300 Because I come from the northeast Venezuela. 255 00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:15,380 It's one of the most beautiful areas in 256 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:15,980 the Caribbean. 257 00:12:15,980 --> 00:12:18,480 You cannot imagine how beautiful that is. 258 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:21,480 You see the sea and you see the 259 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,040 green. 260 00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:27,820 Do you have any impression of the Peace 261 00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:28,580 Prize winner? 262 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:29,580 Oh, yes. 263 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:30,020 Do you like her? 264 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,980 Is she a unifying force for Venezuelans? 265 00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:40,220 Or is she polarizing like some people are 266 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:41,220 claiming these days? 267 00:12:42,060 --> 00:12:44,020 Well, for me, what I see from her 268 00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:49,340 is that she's a relentless fighter for democracy 269 00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:50,440 and for liberty. 270 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,880 As I say, this is not like polarizing 271 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,060 or being from this side or this side. 272 00:12:57,180 --> 00:13:00,360 It's defending your freedom against criminals. 273 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,080 And she's been fighting for it to a 274 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,600 level that is indescribable. 275 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:13,560 She has sacrificed her family, her career opportunities. 276 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:14,780 She's an engineer. 277 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,460 She could also leave Venezuela, as I did, 278 00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:23,000 and have a nice job in another country, 279 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:23,740 in a free country. 280 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:24,360 A better life. 281 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,120 But she sacrificed everything she had for the 282 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,040 freedom of Venezuela. 283 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:33,340 She could have chosen differently, but she chose 284 00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:33,720 to fight. 285 00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:34,500 Yes. 286 00:13:35,180 --> 00:13:41,100 And to a level that is out of 287 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:43,240 anyone can imagine. 288 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,580 May I ask about your circumstances when you 289 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:47,820 left? 290 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:52,080 What were the direct causes that made you 291 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,480 feel like you had to leave? 292 00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:55,680 I suffered an express kidnap. 293 00:13:57,060 --> 00:14:00,180 So it's like a situation where people take 294 00:14:00,180 --> 00:14:03,480 you as a hostage. 295 00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:07,080 And then it's not like a long, it's 296 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,000 an express kidnap. 297 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,100 They have a name for it. 298 00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:12,500 So it's like a short term. 299 00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:15,000 It's just to take away your car and 300 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,020 your credit cards. 301 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,140 But for a person like me at the 302 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:21,240 time, it was something horrible. 303 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,980 I haven't experienced something like that. 304 00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:25,520 And it was becoming worse and worse. 305 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,680 The anarchy in Venezuela is unimaginable. 306 00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:33,060 Now, what you are describing is back in 307 00:14:33,060 --> 00:14:34,780 2009 and before. 308 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:38,440 No, that was in 2006. 309 00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:40,140 Yeah. 310 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:41,820 End of 2005. 311 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,100 But that was kind of the beginning for 312 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,260 me to say, because I didn't want to 313 00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:46,940 leave my country. 314 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:48,380 If I show you the pictures of where 315 00:14:48,380 --> 00:14:49,880 I lived in my country, it was a 316 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:50,220 paradise. 317 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,880 It's something like, it cannot get better than 318 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,180 that. 319 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,800 It's the Caribbean part. 320 00:14:57,140 --> 00:14:59,600 You have the mountains, you have the beaches. 321 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:04,620 You have all the forests getting into the 322 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:04,940 beach. 323 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:07,220 So it's like the green and the blue 324 00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:07,760 combined. 325 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,880 It's like something that even when I was 326 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,800 born there, I didn't take it for granted. 327 00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:17,860 I was thankful every day about where I 328 00:15:17,860 --> 00:15:19,340 lived and where I was. 329 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:22,300 And that's not easy to leave behind. 330 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:24,260 No, and I'll grant you, it's worse here. 331 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,400 No, Norway is extremely beautiful and scenic. 332 00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:30,120 Yeah, but it's cold and wet. 333 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:32,340 It is, but you have the freedom and 334 00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,520 that doesn't have a price. 335 00:15:33,820 --> 00:15:36,780 She thought snow was like 5 Celsius hot. 336 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,220 Yeah, I always tell my kids that when 337 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:42,360 I was a little girl, I didn't imagine 338 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:42,620 that. 339 00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:45,640 I saw the snow on the TV and 340 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,780 I thought it was just such a beautiful 341 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:49,400 thing. 342 00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:53,060 Because I was imagining it to be like 343 00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:55,000 warm in a way, because I had no 344 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:55,320 idea. 345 00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:56,020 I see. 346 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,100 Can I ask you one more thing? 347 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,620 So 2006, 2009, that's still Chavez. 348 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:03,840 Yes. 349 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:07,120 So it seems you left the country under 350 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,040 the rule of Chavez. 351 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:08,300 Yes. 352 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:12,180 And it got too bad while Chavez was 353 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:12,280 running things. 354 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,980 Yeah, Chavez destroyed our country. 355 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:17,280 He was the first one destroying our country 356 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,880 and setting the fundament for all these disasters 357 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:22,980 that happened afterwards. 358 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,520 So that was the plan all along, with 359 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,720 Chavez or without him. 360 00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:29,480 So the reason I ask is because in 361 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,180 the debate in Norway, there's a tendency to 362 00:16:33,180 --> 00:16:35,820 say that Chavez meant well. 363 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:37,900 And then Maduro came and everything went to 364 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:38,160 shit. 365 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:39,780 Well, in my opinion, no. 366 00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:42,760 In my opinion too. 367 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,140 And then the facts back up my opinions 368 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:48,620 also. 369 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,560 But it's difficult. 370 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,380 So I think the Nobel Prize Committee have 371 00:16:55,380 --> 00:17:03,480 done an extremely well job in kind of 372 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,119 explaining what happened in Venezuela, how we came 373 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,400 to this point. 374 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:10,619 Because it's difficult. 375 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:11,760 It's difficult to explain. 376 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:12,380 For sure. 377 00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:17,119 I talked to a Norwegian politician before and 378 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,160 he was crystal clear that being against this 379 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,700 is madness. 380 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:25,119 Yeah. 381 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:28,340 Because there is no comparison between the two 382 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:28,800 sides here. 383 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:29,840 It's not sizes. 384 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:30,960 It's not sides. 385 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,560 It's like being free, having democracy. 386 00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:40,800 I have not been to my country in 387 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:41,460 12 years. 388 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,180 Because I'm too afraid. 389 00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:48,940 And even when I have lived in Norway 390 00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:51,620 for all these years, I still don't feel 391 00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:53,240 like I am a free person. 392 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,340 And I haven't been in Venezuela since never. 393 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,560 Yeah, because you were born here. 394 00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:58,840 Yeah. 395 00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:03,040 So what's it like for you as the 396 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,220 son of a refugee, really? 397 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:05,900 Yeah. 398 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:08,980 And you've grown up here, you've heard the 399 00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:13,480 stories from Venezuela, from your native lands? 400 00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:13,980 Yeah. 401 00:18:14,860 --> 00:18:16,620 My dad is from Oslo, though. 402 00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:17,340 Oh. 403 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:17,840 Yeah. 404 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,960 But he also lived in Venezuela. 405 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:20,680 Yeah. 406 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:22,220 Your father? 407 00:18:22,420 --> 00:18:22,560 Yeah. 408 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:23,940 My father. 409 00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:30,300 But the thing is that I want to 410 00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:35,480 see us recovering our freedom and democracy so 411 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,340 we can at least go on vacation. 412 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:37,820 Yeah. 413 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,180 You're going to show your son the country, 414 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:40,600 right? 415 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,200 I would be proud to see it, but 416 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,520 not in the case now. 417 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:45,400 But now it's... 418 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,240 Yeah, now it's... 419 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,660 While those criminals are there, we are not 420 00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:49,120 going back. 421 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:49,520 Oh. 422 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:51,940 So may I ask your name? 423 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:52,720 David. 424 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:53,320 David. 425 00:18:53,540 --> 00:18:53,680 Yeah. 426 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,340 So David, as a son of a refugee, 427 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,800 in reality, you've been born here. 428 00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:03,240 Yeah. 429 00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:04,400 You've grown up here. 430 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,300 May I ask if you feel sort of 431 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,740 more Norwegian or Venezuelan? 432 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,540 I feel more Norwegian, yeah. 433 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,900 Because that is part of the problem, right, 434 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:17,600 with this crisis? 435 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:21,400 Because I imagine that doesn't feel perfect to 436 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:21,600 you. 437 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:22,660 No, it's... 438 00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:24,040 That your son feels Norwegian. 439 00:19:24,140 --> 00:19:26,740 The reality is that he has lived his 440 00:19:26,740 --> 00:19:27,740 whole life here. 441 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,740 But he... 442 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,920 But at least I'm doing my best to 443 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,020 teach him the language and to teach him 444 00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:38,760 the culture. 445 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,180 So maybe we can go back. 446 00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:44,320 Maybe he can live some years when we 447 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,320 recover our freedom. 448 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,700 Yeah, get to know the country of your 449 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:49,340 forefathers. 450 00:19:49,340 --> 00:19:52,360 And maybe feel more Venezuelan at some point. 451 00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:57,740 But it's sort of illustrating the evil of 452 00:19:57,740 --> 00:19:58,660 bad regimes. 453 00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:00,660 But we are the lucky ones. 454 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:01,380 Yeah. 455 00:20:01,620 --> 00:20:03,460 We are the lucky ones that we... 456 00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:04,160 In a sense. 457 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:04,440 Yeah. 458 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:05,760 But you're still oppressed. 459 00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:07,500 Yeah, it's... 460 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:08,780 You can't go back to where you were 461 00:20:08,780 --> 00:20:09,100 born. 462 00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:12,820 And your son doesn't even know your country 463 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:13,120 of origin. 464 00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:14,580 No, he's only seen the pictures. 465 00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:16,140 Yeah, he saw my pictures. 466 00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:17,100 Yeah. 467 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:18,040 Yeah. 468 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,240 So what are you thinking? 469 00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:22,860 May I ask how old you are? 470 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:23,420 Twelve. 471 00:20:23,740 --> 00:20:24,620 You're twelve years old. 472 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:24,840 Yeah. 473 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:29,280 So what's your... 474 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,860 Do you want to experience Venezuela? 475 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,220 Do you want to live there? 476 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,720 Do you want to get to know the 477 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,580 culture and the language and all of those 478 00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:36,800 things? 479 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,300 Yeah, I'd like to go to vacation and 480 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:40,100 learn some things. 481 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,880 I speak Spanish very well. 482 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,380 Oh, that's cool. 483 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:44,900 Yeah. 484 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:46,040 That's very useful too. 485 00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:46,680 Yeah. 486 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:48,000 I speak Norwegian. 487 00:20:48,420 --> 00:20:49,320 That's completely useless. 488 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,060 I speak all three languages that I know 489 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:53,660 very well. 490 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:54,940 Yeah. 491 00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:56,840 I mean, you speak perfect English as well. 492 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:57,440 Thank you. 493 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,300 So that's awesome. 494 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,120 I did not speak more than one and 495 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:04,680 a half languages when I was twelve. 496 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,100 Well, I think I learned my third language 497 00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:10,360 like around eight or so. 498 00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:10,820 Yeah. 499 00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:11,160 I don't know. 500 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,420 Now your mother is being taken a picture 501 00:21:14,420 --> 00:21:15,920 of because of her beautiful dress. 502 00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:16,400 Yeah. 503 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,760 She has gotten many pictures. 504 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,380 Yeah, I can imagine. 505 00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:21,000 Yeah. 506 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,200 And she got interviewed by Swedish television. 507 00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:27,420 By Swedish television, yeah. 508 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:28,660 Yeah. 509 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:31,100 I'm actually going to steal a picture of 510 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:33,240 her also before we leave. 511 00:21:33,460 --> 00:21:35,580 I do prefer you than Swedish, by the 512 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:35,800 way. 513 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,960 Yeah, those Swedes are bad, huh? 514 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:40,320 Yeah. 515 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,180 So, do you have anything you'd like to 516 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:47,540 say about Venezuela that we haven't talked about 517 00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:49,360 from your perspective? 518 00:21:49,660 --> 00:21:53,340 Yeah, I don't like that the regime is 519 00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:56,720 autocratic, communist, whatever you'd like to call it. 520 00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:57,140 Yeah. 521 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,400 So, I'd wish to like go to a 522 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,240 vacation there. 523 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,600 It seems really nice. 524 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,260 So, we're in the crowd with a few 525 00:22:09,260 --> 00:22:12,680 people with beautiful Venezuelan flags. 526 00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:16,220 Do I take it correctly that you are 527 00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:17,620 Venezuelan of origin? 528 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:18,940 Yes, we are. 529 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:19,760 Yes, we are. 530 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,820 Do you feel proud tonight? 531 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:26,660 We feel extremely proud tonight. 532 00:22:27,460 --> 00:22:29,580 This is an epic moment for us. 533 00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:31,820 And I live in Norway. 534 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,280 And I am really proud of the Norwegians 535 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,600 as well, and Venezuelans, and the whole world 536 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,700 is now looking at us in Venezuela. 537 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,620 And this is really an important and historical 538 00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:48,240 moment for us because we need this attention 539 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:56,380 to finally make things happen towards a democratical 540 00:22:56,380 --> 00:22:57,360 change in Venezuela. 541 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:00,540 It is a historical night. 542 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,300 The support of the Norwegian Institute for the 543 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:09,360 Noble has been clear. 544 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:14,120 I think there was no space for interpretation 545 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,200 in today's speech. 546 00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:19,340 And I think that was very important. 547 00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:23,120 It was a very beautiful surprise. 548 00:23:24,620 --> 00:23:27,580 Sometimes institutes can be more diplomatic. 549 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,600 Today they were clear to the point and 550 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,160 they went as far as to demand Maduro 551 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,120 to step down, accept defeat, accept that he 552 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,140 stole the election and let Venezuelans live in 553 00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:42,500 peace. 554 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,820 I was very positively surprised that Amnesty also 555 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:50,060 were very clear before. 556 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:52,680 Because they have been a little wishy-washy 557 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,720 on some things here and there. 558 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,880 They have been a little more political than 559 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,820 human rights focused, in my opinion. 560 00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,700 But I also, by accident, talked to a 561 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:05,060 politician in the crowd before. 562 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:08,960 And he was also fully clear about what's 563 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,080 right and what's wrong in this situation. 564 00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:15,340 So I was pleasantly surprised by that. 565 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:21,740 I think it's been 27 long years. 566 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,460 And I think finally everybody is clear. 567 00:24:25,580 --> 00:24:27,720 I think that is due to Maria Corina's 568 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,500 determination. 569 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,200 She is a very straightforward leader. 570 00:24:31,460 --> 00:24:33,100 She has never changed her position. 571 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,640 She has always led with the truth. 572 00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:40,400 And along the way many leaders have come 573 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,840 and gone. 574 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,900 Maria Corina has always stayed. 575 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,540 And she finally got the recognition that she 576 00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:46,020 deserved. 577 00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:49,040 The Nobel is undoubtedly hers. 578 00:24:50,180 --> 00:24:53,900 And also part of every Venezuelan. 579 00:24:54,540 --> 00:24:56,160 I've talked to many people today. 580 00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:58,660 And they are just eager to tell their 581 00:24:58,660 --> 00:25:00,440 little part in the story. 582 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,820 And she inspired all of that. 583 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:05,980 I can certainly share in that. 584 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,080 Because I've also talked to a few Venezuelans 585 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,400 today. 586 00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:11,320 And they are unanimous in their support for 587 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,100 Maria Corina. 588 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:16,820 Do you guys have any reaction to the 589 00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:20,800 sort of counter-demonstrations that took part or 590 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,520 happened yesterday? 591 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:31,780 I think it's a space for both sides. 592 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,480 But it's important to respect. 593 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:36,920 And when it's facts that are so clear. 594 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:38,800 And they have presented today. 595 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,240 As you say, it was clear. 596 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,280 No room for interpretation. 597 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:48,220 Then it's just to go to the right 598 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:49,340 side of the story. 599 00:25:49,580 --> 00:25:52,100 To be at that part where there is 600 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:56,040 no more room for autocratical and dictatorial regimes. 601 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,520 Narco regimes. 602 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:00,260 We don't need that. 603 00:26:00,380 --> 00:26:01,660 We need democracy. 604 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,500 We need freedom. 605 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:03,580 We need love. 606 00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:07,120 It is clear what is the right place 607 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:07,780 to be. 608 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,360 And the right side to be in this 609 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,900 chapter of the story. 610 00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:16,700 I think that they are very privileged to 611 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:19,200 be in a country that allows free speech. 612 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:22,380 And that they were allowed to tell their 613 00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:22,860 message. 614 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,820 I would invite them to check the facts. 615 00:26:26,020 --> 00:26:28,280 And to actually listen to Venezuelans. 616 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,860 Instead of buying into misinformation. 617 00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:34,680 And it's very easy to be a communist 618 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:35,780 in a free country. 619 00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:38,020 Try being free in a communist country. 620 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,280 And then we'll talk about it. 621 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:48,440 I like to say that people don't know 622 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,700 how is the reality in those countries. 623 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,560 That communism is everyday. 624 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,660 I call them in Norwegian sofa kommunister. 625 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,920 You are out in your sofa and your 626 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,240 couch. 627 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,460 Just saying, oh this is wonderful. 628 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:09,080 The rigdom. 629 00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:10,820 Prosperity. 630 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,500 Is distributed equally. 631 00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:15,480 No, sorry. 632 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,000 It's not. 633 00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:20,300 It is a lot of corruption. 634 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760 A lot of things happening that have been 635 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,400 shown with facts today. 636 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,120 And then it is very easy to talk 637 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,680 from a very pleasant place. 638 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,140 You just have to travel there and see 639 00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:33,700 the real thing. 640 00:27:34,060 --> 00:27:35,760 So may I ask, because you live in 641 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,020 Norway. 642 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:36,480 Yes. 643 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,840 Have you lived here for long? 644 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:38,360 Yes. 645 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,580 25 years. 646 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,480 25 years? 647 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:40,760 Yes. 648 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:46,060 So do you have an impression of the 649 00:27:46,060 --> 00:27:49,440 press coverage of Venezuela? 650 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,780 Is it fair? 651 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:51,860 Is it biased? 652 00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:56,180 Does it give the right picture of how 653 00:27:56,180 --> 00:27:57,940 you feel as a Venezuelan? 654 00:27:58,180 --> 00:27:59,740 Or are there some pieces missing? 655 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,340 Pieces missing the whole way. 656 00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:04,140 And that is what is difficult. 657 00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:07,640 For example from Venezuela it is difficult because 658 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,320 the press is not neutral. 659 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,420 All the press is shut down. 660 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,460 Controlled by the regime. 661 00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:21,320 In Venezuela. 662 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:21,660 In Venezuela. 663 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,460 And here you have this conservative or maybe 664 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:29,400 trying to get neutral. 665 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,860 And then it is difficult for the people 666 00:28:33,860 --> 00:28:36,920 outside the country to understand the magnitude. 667 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:38,360 And then there is a lot of things 668 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,820 happening in the world. 669 00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:44,240 And we haven't got any attention as we 670 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:44,900 have today. 671 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,780 So a lot of things happening and they 672 00:28:47,780 --> 00:28:51,340 are prioritized to another wars or another problems 673 00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:51,820 in the world. 674 00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:53,840 And then right now it is the moment 675 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,840 to show what is really happening through the 676 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,920 25 or 27 years up to now. 677 00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,620 So right now we are really showing the 678 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:07,020 truth of the situation that we have been 679 00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:08,660 living for a long time. 680 00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:09,820 This is not new. 681 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,660 And you feel that Maria Corina is a 682 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:18,780 good representative of the democratic movement in Venezuela? 683 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:19,420 Yes. 684 00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:20,260 Totally. 685 00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:24,220 And her daughter today, she represents us. 686 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,760 People that are really prepared to do the 687 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:28,200 change. 688 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:31,620 And to really just do the right things 689 00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:37,860 to have a beautiful free country with property 690 00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:38,760 and good values. 691 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,380 She represents us. 692 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,800 I had this like the demonstrations yesterday. 693 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,320 So one of the front figures were one 694 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,540 of the high up people in the communist 695 00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:50,280 party in Norway. 696 00:29:51,460 --> 00:29:53,260 And you know it is quite predictable. 697 00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:56,920 But it is also quite pointed that that 698 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,700 party supported Chavez and the Maduro regime. 699 00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:04,340 And now the peace price goes to the 700 00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:06,260 people suppressed by these people. 701 00:30:06,260 --> 00:30:08,160 And they demonstrate against it. 702 00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:10,880 And then Maria Corina can't really come here 703 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,900 on the night because of the danger to 704 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:13,340 her life. 705 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,360 It is quite pointed, I have to say. 706 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:18,480 Yes. 707 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:25,660 The day after the price, the first peace, 708 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,240 they closed the embassy in Oslo. 709 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,900 The Venezuelan embassy in Oslo. 710 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,080 After they announced the price. 711 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,280 The embassy in Oslo is closed. 712 00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:39,320 Maduro's embassy. 713 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,300 And that affects a lot of people. 714 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,800 Because it is not only for Venezuelans living 715 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,220 in Norway. 716 00:30:45,380 --> 00:30:47,040 But also people from Finland. 717 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,680 They have to come here to do the 718 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,380 documentation. 719 00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:50,360 And now it is closed. 720 00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:52,760 There is only one embassy in the Nordics. 721 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:53,500 In the Nordics. 722 00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:55,000 I wasn't aware of that. 723 00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:57,140 And then it is closed. 724 00:30:57,380 --> 00:30:58,100 The day after. 725 00:30:58,540 --> 00:30:59,320 As a protest. 726 00:30:59,620 --> 00:31:00,380 Because they are against. 727 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:04,280 That is the way they act. 728 00:31:05,260 --> 00:31:10,280 I think Norway acted accordingly. 729 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:16,140 They offered to be part of the negotiation 730 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:16,680 process. 731 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,420 They helped arrange for the Barbados agreement. 732 00:31:24,260 --> 00:31:28,220 And they managed to not comply with not 733 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:30,500 even one point of that negotiation. 734 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,200 I think that made it very clear for 735 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:33,580 Norway. 736 00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:39,100 The regime stands on this issue. 737 00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:41,500 And I think the Nobel Peace Prize is 738 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,340 a result of that as well. 739 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:44,940 It was like the last drop. 740 00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:49,180 I think we have been denied justice for 741 00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:50,880 the past 27 years. 742 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,240 We have gone to the UN. 743 00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:54,400 We have gone to the International Court of 744 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:54,780 Justice. 745 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,540 We have gone to every instance available. 746 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,960 For these things not to happen. 747 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,440 And they have all failed us. 748 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,900 Today the Nobel recognized our cause. 749 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,380 Recognized the suffering of every Venezuelan. 750 00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:09,920 And we will be forever grateful. 751 00:32:10,060 --> 00:32:12,100 Norway again made history. 752 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,980 As you did in World War II. 753 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:18,580 And we will be grateful again for bringing 754 00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:20,920 democracy to another part of the world. 755 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,820 So that is very beautiful. 756 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:24,880 And I would like to point out that 757 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,920 my favorite part of the speech today. 758 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,960 Was when Anna Corinna said. 759 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,940 We lived in a democracy. 760 00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:33,760 We enjoyed the rights. 761 00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:35,540 But we forgot our duties. 762 00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:39,360 And that is a reminder for every democracy 763 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,220 around the world. 764 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,160 We love our freedoms. 765 00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:44,440 But they come with a lot of responsibilities. 766 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:47,580 And sometimes we take them for granted. 767 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,860 I have been positively surprised myself by the 768 00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:52,720 Norwegian government. 769 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,220 Because like Støre and Bartheide and the foreign 770 00:32:57,220 --> 00:32:57,600 minister. 771 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,700 Tends to be a little sympathetic to let's 772 00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,060 say left wing pet causes. 773 00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:05,860 So you could suspect that they wouldn't be 774 00:33:05,860 --> 00:33:06,400 as clear. 775 00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:08,400 And they have been very clear. 776 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,180 Which is a relief for me. 777 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:12,920 No doubt. 778 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,240 We will be eternally grateful with this. 779 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,460 And I would like to point something. 780 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,860 For me it is something that goes beyond 781 00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:20,420 politics. 782 00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:21,440 It is something. 783 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,880 It is just about respect, dignity and values. 784 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,120 Human freedom. 785 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Human freedom. 786 00:33:26,540 --> 00:33:27,980 So it is not about politics. 787 00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:30,760 And that is the common ground for every 788 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:31,580 one of us. 789 00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:32,680 In every country. 790 00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:35,560 And that is what we are fighting for. 791 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:36,140 Definitely. 792 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,720 I would invite everybody to learn more about 793 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:41,320 Venezuela. 794 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,720 We have curiosity. 795 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:43,160 Yes. 796 00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:49,080 And I mean this crisis created one of 797 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,880 the worst diaspora problems in the world. 798 00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:55,180 In the history of the world. 799 00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:58,740 And at least something beautiful came out of 800 00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:01,160 all that struggle. 801 00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:04,700 Because now you see Venezuelans all around the 802 00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:05,100 world. 803 00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:08,500 And in every corner they shine a light. 804 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,500 For freedom. 805 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,940 In their jobs. 806 00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:15,020 And I think we have all been part 807 00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:17,420 of finally getting to here tonight. 808 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,540 And that is beautiful. 809 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,040 It was worth it. 810 00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:22,659 All the sacrifices. 811 00:34:23,260 --> 00:34:23,420 Yes. 812 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,780 I can say from my perspective. 813 00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:26,239 I am very happy for you guys. 814 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:26,960 Thank you. 815 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,520 That this happened. 816 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,780 And that there wasn't any counter demonstrations or 817 00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:31,080 any bullshit. 818 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,320 Yes. 819 00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:32,780 I was afraid about it. 820 00:34:33,020 --> 00:34:33,139 Yes. 821 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,040 I was very. 822 00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:36,780 And I am happy that didn't happen. 823 00:34:37,219 --> 00:34:40,179 And may I ask you one final thing. 824 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,699 If anyone wants to follow the situation in 825 00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:44,120 Venezuela. 826 00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:46,600 From a sort of a neutral perspective. 827 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,219 Are there any news sources in English. 828 00:34:49,620 --> 00:34:53,320 Or somewhere you should go to seek out 829 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:53,980 this information. 830 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,820 Well I would invite them to try to 831 00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:59,060 follow local journalists. 832 00:34:59,780 --> 00:35:01,960 Obviously they are not in Venezuela anymore. 833 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:02,940 They had to leave. 834 00:35:03,140 --> 00:35:05,740 But try to find Venezuelan journalists around the 835 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:06,080 world. 836 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,800 That tell the stories of the diaspora. 837 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,260 And ask if you meet a Venezuelan. 838 00:35:12,460 --> 00:35:13,800 Ask them why they are here. 839 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,440 Why they are not back at home. 840 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:21,520 I think the free press has been doing 841 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,820 a good job of covering the news lately. 842 00:35:27,820 --> 00:35:33,240 I think the Wall Street Journal. 843 00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:41,820 I can't remember. 844 00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:44,280 I mean definitely not the New York Times. 845 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,040 Definitely not. 846 00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:48,420 Yes. 847 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:52,520 So try to find local independent media. 848 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,340 Or independent journalists. 849 00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:58,200 And usually if you are reading a news. 850 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,580 Ask are they telling me something. 851 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,540 Or are they trying to make me feel 852 00:36:02,540 --> 00:36:03,100 something. 853 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,600 And if they are trying to make you 854 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,340 feel something. 855 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:06,700 It is usually manipulation. 856 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:08,180 So dig deeper. 857 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,820 This is sound advice. 858 00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:11,220 Thank you so much. 859 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:11,740 Thank you. 860 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:13,560 Thank you. 861 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:15,620 We are still here. 862 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,060 Hello again. 863 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,920 Hello again. 864 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,920 So interesting to hear the stories. 865 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,560 So you were telling me about all the 866 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,060 people coming from different places. 867 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,920 And a couple of you are not really 868 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:30,940 living in Norway. 869 00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:33,500 May I ask first where you guys have 870 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:33,920 come from? 871 00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:36,000 I have come all the way from Mexico. 872 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:36,920 From Mexico? 873 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:37,540 Yes. 874 00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:37,760 Wow. 875 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,100 Just from Spain. 876 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:40,720 From Madrid. 877 00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:41,300 From Spain. 878 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,520 That doesn't count. 879 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,320 I know. 880 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,980 You should have started with me. 881 00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:46,520 Yeah. 882 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:48,020 Bad dream. 883 00:36:48,260 --> 00:36:48,420 Bad dream. 884 00:36:48,980 --> 00:36:49,500 No. 885 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,460 But as me there has been so many 886 00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:54,100 other people. 887 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,100 I read the news about a person who 888 00:36:58,100 --> 00:36:58,680 did a GoFundMe. 889 00:36:59,340 --> 00:37:01,320 So she could come all the way here. 890 00:37:01,820 --> 00:37:02,780 And she made it. 891 00:37:03,220 --> 00:37:05,140 Another person who came from Japan. 892 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,260 And had to take many many flights. 893 00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:16,100 And a journalist that was awarded the opportunity 894 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,720 to come here to cover the news and 895 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:19,300 the event. 896 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,420 And we have seen political prisoners. 897 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:23,600 Not only from Venezuela. 898 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,620 There is plenty of political prisoners around the 899 00:37:26,620 --> 00:37:26,960 world. 900 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:28,080 From Nicaragua. 901 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:29,400 From Nicaragua. 902 00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:31,960 I met two from Nicaragua. 903 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:33,700 Many from Venezuela. 904 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,560 And also I was very excited. 905 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,480 I was a little bit star struck yesterday 906 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,420 when I met Masi Alina Jed. 907 00:37:43,660 --> 00:37:46,660 And I think her story is amazing. 908 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,320 And for her to be here. 909 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,580 And what she told us last night. 910 00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:51,780 That she had to be here. 911 00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:53,280 She had to be with Maria Corina. 912 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:55,060 That was very exciting. 913 00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,560 So to see the support from all over 914 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:57,920 the place. 915 00:37:57,940 --> 00:37:59,840 I just talked to a Japanese reporter. 916 00:38:00,380 --> 00:38:02,120 And she came all the way from Japan. 917 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:05,060 And she was also very excited to be 918 00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:05,340 here. 919 00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:06,940 So every story. 920 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,760 Everybody telling us the little bits and pieces 921 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:11,860 that they did. 922 00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:15,420 To be able to count all the ballots. 923 00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:19,500 There was this man that had to hide 924 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:21,640 the ballots in his wig. 925 00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:22,820 Under his wig. 926 00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:24,920 And he was so nervous and sweating. 927 00:38:25,060 --> 00:38:25,420 And he was like. 928 00:38:25,540 --> 00:38:27,100 The ink is going to get ruined. 929 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:28,400 The ink is going to get ruined. 930 00:38:28,620 --> 00:38:29,140 And I was like. 931 00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:31,060 And these are all the anonymous heroes. 932 00:38:31,060 --> 00:38:36,980 And to be able to find all these 933 00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:37,680 different pieces. 934 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,780 Tell him about the girl who took my 935 00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:40,240 hat. 936 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,320 So after the speech we were coming back. 937 00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:46,820 And she dropped her hat. 938 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,540 And then this young lady grabbed it and 939 00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:50,780 said. 940 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,720 Excuse me ma'am. 941 00:38:51,820 --> 00:38:52,840 And she turned around. 942 00:38:53,060 --> 00:38:53,560 And she was like. 943 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,460 Why are you calling me ma'am? 944 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:56,560 So we started laughing. 945 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,160 And then we started talking. 946 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,920 Because that's how Venezuelans we are. 947 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,240 And then we started talking. 948 00:39:05,460 --> 00:39:06,200 And it got serious. 949 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:06,740 She was like. 950 00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:08,340 This is so important for me. 951 00:39:08,860 --> 00:39:10,200 You can't tell. 952 00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:13,720 But my head is covered with bullets. 953 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,800 Perdigones we say in Spanish. 954 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,120 And she told me her story of being 955 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:22,960 an activist. 956 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,220 A student activist. 957 00:39:25,220 --> 00:39:29,040 And being persecuted by the regime. 958 00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:32,240 And it was just so moving to have 959 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:32,380 her. 960 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,820 To have met her. 961 00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:37,780 She was there just like one of us. 962 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,320 Exactly. 963 00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:41,760 She was just here to be present. 964 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,280 I think it means so much to so 965 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,040 many of us. 966 00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:47,620 And it's personal to everyone. 967 00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:50,460 How do you guys interpret. 968 00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:53,500 That there's a few heads of state from 969 00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:54,380 South America. 970 00:39:54,380 --> 00:39:56,340 It was Malay. 971 00:39:58,020 --> 00:39:58,580 Ecuador. 972 00:39:58,980 --> 00:39:59,460 Panama. 973 00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:00,600 Honduras. 974 00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:01,580 No. 975 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,020 Paraguay. 976 00:40:02,260 --> 00:40:04,800 And coming here to support the Peace Prize. 977 00:40:05,180 --> 00:40:05,660 It seems to me. 978 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,300 Happy with that? 979 00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:07,860 Yes. 980 00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:08,900 That was very important. 981 00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:09,700 Not only happy. 982 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,080 Grateful. 983 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:10,880 Yes. 984 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:11,560 Very grateful. 985 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:13,760 And also it means a lot. 986 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,220 Because the freedom of Venezuela. 987 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,440 Means the freedom of the whole continent. 988 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,760 When Maduro's regime is over. 989 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,080 Because it will be over. 990 00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:25,980 Sooner rather than later. 991 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,140 Many will fall. 992 00:40:28,540 --> 00:40:30,400 I think Nicaragua will fall. 993 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,000 Hopefully Cuba will fall. 994 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,360 And I think the continent is starting to 995 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:35,840 wake up. 996 00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:37,560 And realize the dangers. 997 00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:39,680 Of this radical ideology. 998 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,440 From my perspective. 999 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:44,440 As a Norwegian. 1000 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,900 And as a. 1001 00:40:45,980 --> 00:40:48,780 Let's say an avid watcher of news. 1002 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,880 And I like Malay. 1003 00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:54,500 Who doesn't? 1004 00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:56,660 Okay. 1005 00:40:56,860 --> 00:40:58,820 You guys are stars in the podcast now. 1006 00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:03,300 But I mean. 1007 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,180 There was no one from Nicaragua here. 1008 00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:05,920 No one from Cuba. 1009 00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:06,860 No one from Brazil. 1010 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,520 No one from Colombia. 1011 00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:10,700 No one from Colombia. 1012 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:11,320 First of all. 1013 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,580 Seems to me. 1014 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,160 There's a left. 1015 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:15,840 Right. 1016 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:16,680 Somewhat. 1017 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,040 Distinction here. 1018 00:41:18,340 --> 00:41:18,720 Definitely. 1019 00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:19,520 I mean. 1020 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,220 It is. 1021 00:41:21,220 --> 00:41:22,420 It is definitely. 1022 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:23,760 There shouldn't be. 1023 00:41:24,140 --> 00:41:25,240 There shouldn't be. 1024 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,700 Because this is. 1025 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:27,340 This is. 1026 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,680 More than. 1027 00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,560 This is not. 1028 00:41:30,860 --> 00:41:31,920 We've said it many times. 1029 00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:33,560 This is not about left and right. 1030 00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:35,700 This is about principles and human rights. 1031 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:36,720 And there should be. 1032 00:41:36,980 --> 00:41:37,640 Human rights. 1033 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:39,400 Across all political spectrum. 1034 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,520 We've seen a radicalization of the left. 1035 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,860 That I find it very dangerous. 1036 00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:46,440 And it's very hypocritical. 1037 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:47,440 When you have. 1038 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,000 Protesters in a free country. 1039 00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:52,240 Defending a dictator. 1040 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,620 Who's oppressing people. 1041 00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:55,280 In a not free country. 1042 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:55,960 So. 1043 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:57,020 How do you. 1044 00:41:57,420 --> 00:41:58,620 How do you go home. 1045 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,220 And make sense of all of that. 1046 00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:02,560 So it's obviously. 1047 00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:03,960 It's not. 1048 00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:05,380 I don't find it spontaneous. 1049 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,100 I think it is organized. 1050 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,040 And paid for. 1051 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,740 We've seen. 1052 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,720 Reporting from Nate Friedman. 1053 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:12,960 Where he's exposed. 1054 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:14,980 Many of the protesters. 1055 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:16,480 And. 1056 00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:18,240 I. 1057 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:19,940 I think. 1058 00:42:20,460 --> 00:42:21,900 That we have to open our eyes. 1059 00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:23,520 And understand that this is not. 1060 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,100 This is not spontaneous. 1061 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:25,820 This is. 1062 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,660 This is strategized. 1063 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,100 So are you. 1064 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:32,780 Guys. 1065 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:33,860 Because you have. 1066 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,960 At least you have come really far. 1067 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:37,600 You've come a way as well. 1068 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:38,440 Spain. 1069 00:42:39,260 --> 00:42:40,440 Are you staying for a few days. 1070 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:40,860 Yeah. 1071 00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:42,300 Enjoying the city and all that. 1072 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:42,860 Until. 1073 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,440 I will stay until Friday. 1074 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:46,540 Just until Friday. 1075 00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:48,520 Yeah I will stay for a few days. 1076 00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:50,420 Hopefully we'll be able to see Maria Corina. 1077 00:42:50,420 --> 00:42:51,700 So we're excited. 1078 00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:53,100 Yeah I'm staying too. 1079 00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:54,200 I'm trying to be late. 1080 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,260 But I haven't seen him yet. 1081 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,340 Grand Hotel is the place. 1082 00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:01,480 I'm going to sneak in and see if 1083 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:01,780 I can. 1084 00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:03,640 He's a very interesting. 1085 00:43:05,140 --> 00:43:06,440 Interesting person really. 1086 00:43:06,820 --> 00:43:07,380 Quite the character. 1087 00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:08,800 And he is trying to fix. 1088 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,360 Fix the communist. 1089 00:43:12,580 --> 00:43:13,060 Prior. 1090 00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:13,840 Yeah. 1091 00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:14,440 I mean. 1092 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,520 That's the good thing about communists. 1093 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,420 They make it really easy to fix. 1094 00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:18,760 Yeah. 1095 00:43:19,180 --> 00:43:19,780 There you go. 1096 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:20,480 It is. 1097 00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:22,120 There's a smart point there. 1098 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:24,240 But this. 1099 00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:25,000 Is the. 1100 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:25,800 The. 1101 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,760 The overgang. 1102 00:43:26,940 --> 00:43:27,420 How do you call it. 1103 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,120 The phase. 1104 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:29,640 The transition. 1105 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,680 The transition is very difficult. 1106 00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:31,980 Right. 1107 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:32,240 From. 1108 00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:32,980 From. 1109 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,760 Maybe ruins. 1110 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:35,920 You get the country. 1111 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:36,840 You have to. 1112 00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:37,700 Repair it. 1113 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:38,600 And it. 1114 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:39,440 It takes time. 1115 00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:39,760 Yeah. 1116 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:40,540 It takes some time. 1117 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:41,200 So. 1118 00:43:41,740 --> 00:43:42,000 It. 1119 00:43:42,140 --> 00:43:44,360 It won't be easy for Maria Corina. 1120 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:45,240 To. 1121 00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:46,100 To. 1122 00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:47,300 To make the transition. 1123 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,460 But. 1124 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,540 She have the support of. 1125 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:51,900 The majority. 1126 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:52,340 Really. 1127 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:53,220 And it. 1128 00:43:53,340 --> 00:43:54,160 It was shown. 1129 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,500 In the last presidential. 1130 00:43:55,780 --> 00:43:56,240 Election. 1131 00:43:56,740 --> 00:43:57,580 She have the majority. 1132 00:43:58,180 --> 00:43:58,340 We. 1133 00:43:58,420 --> 00:43:59,000 If the people. 1134 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:00,080 Outside Venezuela. 1135 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:01,700 Had the. 1136 00:44:01,780 --> 00:44:02,200 The. 1137 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:02,820 The possibility. 1138 00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:04,680 Because we didn't have the right to. 1139 00:44:04,980 --> 00:44:05,240 To. 1140 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:06,360 To vote. 1141 00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:07,280 It will be. 1142 00:44:07,620 --> 00:44:08,080 Triple. 1143 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:08,920 I mean. 1144 00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:10,060 We had the right to vote. 1145 00:44:10,140 --> 00:44:11,040 But we weren't allowed. 1146 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:11,860 We weren't allowed. 1147 00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:12,180 Right. 1148 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:12,620 Right. 1149 00:44:12,860 --> 00:44:13,500 We couldn't. 1150 00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:15,040 They made the impossible. 1151 00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:17,100 So. 1152 00:44:17,620 --> 00:44:18,380 What do you. 1153 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,100 But we were denied. 1154 00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:19,780 Our right to vote. 1155 00:44:19,860 --> 00:44:20,080 Right. 1156 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:20,300 Yes. 1157 00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:21,020 Denied the right. 1158 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:21,580 That is the. 1159 00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:22,080 The right. 1160 00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:22,520 Yeah. 1161 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:23,360 So. 1162 00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:24,600 What do you guys think. 1163 00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:25,860 Are the chances now. 1164 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:26,180 That. 1165 00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:27,740 The Maduro regime. 1166 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,380 Will fall. 1167 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:29,180 Sooner. 1168 00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:29,900 Rather than later. 1169 00:44:30,220 --> 00:44:30,700 And. 1170 00:44:31,140 --> 00:44:31,320 That. 1171 00:44:31,620 --> 00:44:32,160 Maria Corina. 1172 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,540 Will get the opportunity. 1173 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:35,300 We do think. 1174 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:36,260 That the change. 1175 00:44:36,420 --> 00:44:36,760 Will come. 1176 00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:37,280 Soon. 1177 00:44:38,340 --> 00:44:38,820 But. 1178 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,220 We have to remember. 1179 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:42,000 That this is an urgent. 1180 00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:42,780 Matter for us. 1181 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:43,640 We still have. 1182 00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:43,940 Yeah. 1183 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,700 A thousand political prisoners. 1184 00:44:46,060 --> 00:44:46,680 Being tortured. 1185 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,420 Every day. 1186 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:48,520 So. 1187 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,320 We need to get them out. 1188 00:44:50,420 --> 00:44:51,220 As soon as possible. 1189 00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:53,360 There was this podcast. 1190 00:44:53,380 --> 00:44:53,800 In Norway. 1191 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,120 Yesterday. 1192 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,040 Or the day before. 1193 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:57,680 Interviewed a Swede. 1194 00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:58,580 That had been working. 1195 00:44:58,820 --> 00:44:59,400 In Venezuela. 1196 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:01,100 And working along the opposition. 1197 00:45:02,140 --> 00:45:03,740 And he made a few claims. 1198 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:04,800 That were. 1199 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,640 Let's say. 1200 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:06,620 Eyebrow raising. 1201 00:45:07,660 --> 00:45:08,200 One of the claims. 1202 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:09,580 Was that. 1203 00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:12,060 A quarter of a million people. 1204 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:12,860 Were killed. 1205 00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:13,800 In Venezuela. 1206 00:45:14,620 --> 00:45:15,180 And. 1207 00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:16,740 Not killed by being. 1208 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,440 Strangled with piano wire. 1209 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:20,780 Starved to death. 1210 00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:22,040 But deliberately. 1211 00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:23,320 Does that sound. 1212 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,320 True to you. 1213 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,620 Does it sound. 1214 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:26,540 Plausible. 1215 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,220 Or does it sound like. 1216 00:45:28,780 --> 00:45:29,140 Pokerful. 1217 00:45:30,700 --> 00:45:31,120 Well. 1218 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:31,980 I haven't heard that. 1219 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:32,580 Podcast. 1220 00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:33,520 But I. 1221 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:34,460 I heard. 1222 00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:35,580 The title. 1223 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:35,980 But. 1224 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:37,420 I think it's. 1225 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:38,220 A strategy. 1226 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:39,060 To. 1227 00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:40,000 Oppress. 1228 00:45:41,220 --> 00:45:41,760 People. 1229 00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:42,380 By. 1230 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:43,120 Starving. 1231 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,900 Doing blackouts. 1232 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:46,180 The basics. 1233 00:45:46,460 --> 00:45:46,940 Are denied. 1234 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:47,820 Right. 1235 00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:48,700 That is a way to. 1236 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:49,440 Dominate. 1237 00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:50,680 Not for party members. 1238 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:51,500 No. 1239 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,120 Never for party members. 1240 00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:53,740 Of course not. 1241 00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:54,680 That would be silly. 1242 00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:55,020 So. 1243 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:55,740 That is. 1244 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:56,720 That is. 1245 00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:58,100 Like a. 1246 00:45:58,460 --> 00:45:58,800 Model. 1247 00:45:59,240 --> 00:45:59,920 Used in. 1248 00:46:00,420 --> 00:46:01,260 A lot of country. 1249 00:46:01,260 --> 00:46:01,720 That one. 1250 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:02,660 Want to. 1251 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:05,400 How do you call it. 1252 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:05,620 The. 1253 00:46:05,820 --> 00:46:05,960 Control. 1254 00:46:06,220 --> 00:46:06,620 Control. 1255 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:07,760 The people. 1256 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,580 It will be a zombie society. 1257 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,400 As I call it. 1258 00:46:10,820 --> 00:46:11,020 Right. 1259 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:11,420 Because. 1260 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,680 Your basics. 1261 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:14,320 Are not. 1262 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:15,520 Covered. 1263 00:46:15,780 --> 00:46:15,980 Then. 1264 00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:17,140 You don't have. 1265 00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:18,060 Any. 1266 00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:18,460 And it. 1267 00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:19,300 Is like the. 1268 00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:19,920 The. 1269 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:20,400 The. 1270 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:21,680 Pyramid. 1271 00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:24,060 Maslow's. 1272 00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:24,540 Pyramid. 1273 00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:24,760 Right. 1274 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,280 Pyramid. 1275 00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:25,520 Yeah. 1276 00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:26,420 When the basics. 1277 00:46:26,420 --> 00:46:26,840 Are not. 1278 00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:27,700 Covered. 1279 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:28,800 Needs. 1280 00:46:29,620 --> 00:46:30,100 Then you are. 1281 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:30,560 You don't have. 1282 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,180 Time to. 1283 00:46:31,780 --> 00:46:32,020 Think. 1284 00:46:32,220 --> 00:46:32,500 Or. 1285 00:46:32,660 --> 00:46:33,060 Or like. 1286 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:33,720 Fight for your. 1287 00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:34,980 Your. 1288 00:46:35,180 --> 00:46:35,480 Rights. 1289 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:35,740 Or. 1290 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:36,720 Realizations. 1291 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:37,140 Or. 1292 00:46:38,020 --> 00:46:38,380 It's. 1293 00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:38,860 It's like. 1294 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:39,320 The way. 1295 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:39,860 To control. 1296 00:46:40,060 --> 00:46:40,520 Very easy. 1297 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:40,860 The way. 1298 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:41,380 To control. 1299 00:46:41,540 --> 00:46:41,840 The. 1300 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,380 The population. 1301 00:46:43,060 --> 00:46:43,240 Yeah. 1302 00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:44,440 Okay. 1303 00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:45,220 We'll hope. 1304 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,080 For better times. 1305 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:46,500 But. 1306 00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:54,530 But. 1307 00:46:55,390 --> 00:46:56,130 But. 1308 00:47:03,630 --> 00:47:04,950 But. 1309 00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:11,770 But. 1310 00:47:12,510 --> 00:47:12,630 But. 1311 00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:14,970 But. 1312 00:47:15,490 --> 00:47:15,750 But. 1313 00:47:18,290 --> 00:47:18,390 But. 1314 00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:19,030 But. 1315 00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:20,070 But. 1316 00:47:20,450 --> 00:47:20,730 But. 1317 00:47:20,730 --> 00:47:20,830 But. 1318 00:47:20,830 --> 00:47:20,970 But. 1319 00:47:20,970 --> 00:47:21,250 But.