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This file was generated by Descript 

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Michele: Hey Colleen.

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Colleen: Hey, Michelle.

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Michele: Hey Aaron.

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Aaron: Hey, Michelle.

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Michele: Aaron is this first
time, you've actually like,

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come on here, with  me here.

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Like I

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Aaron: Yeah.

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I've heard the last, yeah, the last two
or three weeks, y'all have said my name

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a whole lot and I've wanted to talk
back, but yeah, this is the first time.

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Michele: That's how I feel when I'm
listening to the hammer stone podcasts.

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Like I was listening to it while
I was working the other day.

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And like, there's something she's
like, Michelle had this great idea.

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And I was like, Ooh, I had a great idea.

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Like, um, so we are all
at the edge of our seats.

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How did it go at rails?

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Colleen: Well, what is
Aaron's favorite phrase?

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Not ideal.

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He says that a lot.

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It was not ideal.

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Aaron: It was definitely not ideal.

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Michele: Oh, no.

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Colleen: I've picked that up from
Aaron which is, I feel like a

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phrase, that you can, um, co-op to
me, not terrible, but not perfect.

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Michele: Let's, uh,
let's get detailed here.

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In what ways was it not.

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Colleen: So, as we had talked about, I
think on the last episode we did together,

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I had built the workshop in such a way
where you had the stepped branches.

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So the idea was they would check
out a branch, they would do the

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work, they would get the solution.

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And I thought I was quite clever
by getting the cloud IDE set up

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on git pod, which was wonderful.

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And Aaron and I get up there and there
must've been 180 people in that room.

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I

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Michele: Well.

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Colleen: Yeah, it was.

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Aaron: It was huge.

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Colleen: People were sitting on the
floor, they were standing on the walls.

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Michele: Dude, sold-out crowd.

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Colleen: It was a sold-out crowd.

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And we get up there and we started strong
cause I had made some slides beforehand.

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So I had plenty of slides like before
the workshop was like the intro.

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I feel like we started really strong.

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And then we get to the part where they
have to open the repo and git pod.

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And there was no internet.

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Like The wifi just
straight up did not work.

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Michele: Wait, so it like, had it been
working the rest of the conference and

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then it died at this point, or like,
had it been spotty the whole time as

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conference wifi kind of tends to be.

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Colleen: I have no idea.

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Aaron: It was working fine
when no one was in the room.

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So when we were in the room beforehand,
we were getting Colleen's computers

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set up and it was working just fine.

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And then when it was time to do it live,
not only would it not work for other

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people, it wouldn't work for Colleen.

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Colleen: Oh, right.

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Aaron: Colleen's up there telling
everyone to go to git pod and

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she's trying to do the same thing.

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And meanwhile, I'm like standing
off to the side and watching her

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computer and it is not loading.

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Like not even slow, it's
just not loading at all.

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Michele: So, what did you do?

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Like

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Colleen: So what did we do?

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So it was good.

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We were there together because.

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Michele: Moral support

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Colleen: I was about to just be like,
okay, we're done,  throw up your hands.

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I wasn't really, but I did cross
my mind for a minute and Aaron

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was like, we just have to keep.

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He's like, we're just going to keep going.

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We're just not going to do the exercises.

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Aaron: Somebody from the
audience shouted, do it live.

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Colleen: That's right.

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So it was super, I had it locally
and I was eventually able to get

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it up and running mostly locally.

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So I basically, our two hour workshop
turned into An hour long talk.

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Um, It was not good.

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Aaron: An hour long improv

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Colleen: Improv with live coding.

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That's

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Aaron: With live coding, because
suddenly, at one point, Colleen was

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like, okay, so now do this and we'll
give you 10 minutes to do this part.

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And I said, no,  we got to keep
moving that, nobody has it open.

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We can't give them 10
minutes to do anything.

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Cause people are just going to leave.

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There's nothing for them to do.

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And people are just going to leave.

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And so I kept saying to Colleen, while
I'm miced so everyone can hear it.

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Right.

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I kept saying, Nope, keep going.

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Nope.

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Forget about it.

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Keep moving.

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Nope.

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Move on.

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Just move on.

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Michele: Is there a video.

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Aaron: What I was saying.

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No praise the Lord, no.

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Michele: Not ideal for those of
us who would like to relive this.

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Aaron: Not ideal.

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Michele: God.

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I mean, did you like, could you get a
person from the conference in and be

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Colleen: Dude, Get this.

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Okay.

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So.

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Michele: I have wifi?

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Colleen: The person who was supposed
to be overseeing the workshop track,

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just, I don't know the details, but
he didn't show up to the conference.

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So we didn't have like an advocate.

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So Ernesto was giving a
workshop in the room next door.

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So in the middle of his workshop,
he got on the speaker slack and

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was like, we can't do anything.

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The wifi is out.

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We cannot like no one can upgrade rails.

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So he tried to reach out in the
middle of his workshop, but like

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no one was able to do anything.

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So

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Michele: Ah.

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Colleen: It was, it was really.

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I told Aaron so after it happened,
I was really mad and I was like,

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I'm gonna give myself 24 hours to be
pissed and then I'm gonna let it go.

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Clearly retelling you the story right now.

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I haven't quite let it go.

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Michele: I think that's
understandable, cause you have

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been working on this for months.

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Colleen: Work Michelle, right.

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The other thing that was really cool is,
the interesting thing about Aaron and

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I having a business together is like,
we know each other pretty well, but we

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have not been to a conference together.

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We've never tried to speak together
before, so you didn't really

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know how that was going to go.

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It was going really well.

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We had, I feel like, we
were doing really good.

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It felt like very natural and
like, it felt really good.

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And then we got to that point and
it was just like, oh, I just felt

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like the whole thing was ruined.

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So yeah.

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Michele: God.

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I mean, so like, how did the
people in the workshop react to it?

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What did they say about the workshop
afterwards or while it was going on?

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Colleen: Well actually people
were really gracious and kind.

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Several people, even we were having
dinner that night and some guy stopped

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by us at the dinner table and was
like, was he the audio guy, Aaron?

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Didn't he say he used to be in theater or

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Aaron: Yeah.

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He said he used to be like in
audio production for, I think

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like proper bands and stuff.

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And he stopped by, he was Colleen
and I were eating in the hotel

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lobby and he stopped and said,
Hey, I used to do audio production.

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I know that stuff  goes wrong.

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And I've seen people
totally freeze and crumble.

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And I just want to say
that you guys did amazing.

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I was like, wow, thank you for saying
that because it felt pretty horrible.

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That's it, you know, to have people and
he wasn't the only one, but to have people

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stop and say, Hey, I just want to tell
you, we were all feeling the pain and

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you guys did incredible, like way to go.

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So some comfort.

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Colleen: Yeah.

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A lot of people, no one said anything,
mean like a lot of people were very

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kind and said, you know, it was great.

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And you did the best you could
with a crappy situation and,

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you know, et cetera, et cetera.

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Michele: So for all the people
listening, who run developer conferences

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with spotty, wifi, Colleen and
Aaron, they just, they are a lock.

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They can handle it when
your wifi goes out.

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Because, like, honestly, I feel like
the wifi is usually, I feel like

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you get thousands of people in one,
like concentration of rooms, all

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of them trying to use the internet.

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And it very often goes through.

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Colleen: Yeah.

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And it's kind of a catch 22 because no
one, what I have learned from workshops

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of time passed is you can tell people
how to get the stuff locally, but

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like almost no one's going to do it.

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We had one guy who had it locally.

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He sat in the front row.

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So I appreciated that.

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Aaron: And he was giving us life.

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He was the only one that had it and he
was just making eye contact and thumbs

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up the whole time we, we relied on.

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Michele: You always need
somebody who's sitting in the

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front row who's smiling at you.

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Like if they're giving any kind of talk
or workshop,  that just goes so far.

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Colleen: He was great, but I don't know.

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I was incredibly frustrated because
you know, the thing about conference

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speaking and conference talks
is you're given a stipend that

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does not even cover your travel.

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You are not paid.

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There's a huge opportunity
cost to building these things.

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Like it's tremendous.

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And as both of, you know, this was time
away from my family, on top of my job,

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like on top of  my product business,
like it was just, it was just, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I dunno.

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I dunno if the cost benefit analysis of
this, if the benefit was worth the cost.

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Michele: Did you guys sell anything?

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Did you wait, hold on, did you get the,
the pre-order landing page up before

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the conference that we talked about?

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Oh, okay.

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Did you sell it?

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Colleen: No.

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Well, let me tell you.

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Michele: Okay.

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Colleen: No, we didn't sell
anything at the conference.

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Michele: Okay.

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You're burying a lead here.

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Like I feel like there's
something else behind this.

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You just sitting there sipping your
seltzer, like just looking at me.

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Colleen: I don't know.

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Right.

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We have sold two licenses to presales
since we have gotten back yes, to rails.

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Michele: Are they from
people you knew previous.

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Colleen: One person.

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I know one person I don't know at all.

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Michele: money.

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Colleen: Yes.

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Michele: Strange or money.

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Colleen: And Michelle, what I wanted
to talk to you about, as well, as

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aaron and I, while we were at rails
conf, we had a big talk about sales.

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Cause last time you and I talked, we
talked, you were like, okay, marketing

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is one thing, but sales is another thing.

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So we had a big talk about
how we're going to be making a

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sales push going forward here.

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Michele: So what are you going to do?

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What does that look like?

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Aaron: Uh, We're going to ask.

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We, I mean, I, I think it was
good, Colleen and I had many

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talks after our terrific workshop.

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Um, and I think it was good cause I
think we've both realized that we're

00:10:02.125 --> 00:10:07.454
kind of hiding behind, I think first
maybe development and then marketing.

00:10:08.004 --> 00:10:10.494
Because with marketing, you can just
like, oh, I'm going to, you know,

00:10:10.494 --> 00:10:12.294
do a landing page and send an email.

00:10:12.294 --> 00:10:14.064
And I never really have
to talk to anybody.

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And that feels like progress, right?

00:10:17.184 --> 00:10:18.684
That feels like I'm doing marketing.

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I'm so proud of myself.

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Which is good.

00:10:20.812 --> 00:10:26.412
But I think one step further is we've
decided the only thing that matters

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is sales and the only way to do that
is to talk to people, one-on-one and

00:10:32.562 --> 00:10:36.852
I think there's been some, like maybe
fear on both of our parts about doing

00:10:36.852 --> 00:10:39.342
that, but the new plan is reach out.

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We have this whole list of people and,
you know, we've been sending them an email

00:10:43.752 --> 00:10:46.632
being like, Hey, come buy the thing that
you don't really know anything about.

00:10:47.082 --> 00:10:50.652
And the new strategy is to email them
one by one and say, the thing is.

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Do you want to buy it?

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Do you want to get on a call?

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Let's get on a call.

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Do you want to buy it?

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No.

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Why not?

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Tell me why not.

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Let's figure this out.

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So we had this, you know, emotional
awakening, and then at rails

00:11:01.744 --> 00:11:03.214
conf, we did, we did one of those.

00:11:03.214 --> 00:11:06.574
We, tracked down well Colleen tracks
down a guy who was like, I think

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I'm kind of interested in this.

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And Colleen was like, okay,
I'm going to freaking do this.

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And we're like followed him
around and finally found him.

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Colleen: I did in fact follow him.

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Thanks Andy, if you're
listening, I appreciate you.

00:11:19.924 --> 00:11:21.004
Chase this guy around.

00:11:21.214 --> 00:11:25.534
He was like casually interested and
I was like, all right, let's talk.

00:11:25.984 --> 00:11:26.284
Anyway.

00:11:26.284 --> 00:11:31.564
So I chased him down and we gave
him a demo slash sales pitch.

00:11:32.066 --> 00:11:32.426
Michele: Nice.

00:11:33.771 --> 00:11:34.311
Colleen: No.

00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.269
Michele: He didn't Oh, he didn't buy

00:11:36.269 --> 00:11:36.389
it.

00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:38.679
Aaron: It didn't not go well.

00:11:38.849 --> 00:11:40.289
Michele: Better than the workshop?

00:11:40.319 --> 00:11:41.969
Did the wifi work?

00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:43.709
Colleen: Than the workshop.

00:11:44.729 --> 00:11:46.409
Michele: I feel like that's
the, that's the bar now?

00:11:46.409 --> 00:11:49.979
Like did the wifi work
when you gave the demo?

00:11:50.483 --> 00:11:52.133
Anything from there is gravy.

00:11:52.268 --> 00:11:52.778
Colleen: Right.

00:11:52.808 --> 00:11:55.388
Like I was telling Aaron, I
think now that we're a little

00:11:55.388 --> 00:11:56.738
bit removed from the workshop.

00:11:57.098 --> 00:12:01.328
It's good, that that happened because
if the workshop had been awesome, that

00:12:01.328 --> 00:12:04.328
would have been our win and we would
have been like, Oh, we're so great.

00:12:04.328 --> 00:12:08.588
We just gave this kick-ass workshop
when reality would be, we still

00:12:08.588 --> 00:12:10.088
wouldn't have had sold any licenses.

00:12:10.268 --> 00:12:10.628
Right.

00:12:10.628 --> 00:12:14.948
Like the goal here is so, so I think
the workshop not going so well, forced

00:12:14.948 --> 00:12:17.618
us to sit down and like, reevaluate.

00:12:17.618 --> 00:12:18.248
Like what do we do?

00:12:18.933 --> 00:12:19.923
W what are we doing?

00:12:19.976 --> 00:12:20.846
Are we going to do this?

00:12:20.846 --> 00:12:23.396
Are we just going to do
all these other things?

00:12:23.396 --> 00:12:23.826
What is it?

00:12:23.876 --> 00:12:27.266
It's the James clear thing
work versus we action versus

00:12:27.651 --> 00:12:30.321
Michele: versus motion, right?

00:12:30.351 --> 00:12:30.591
Yeah.

00:12:30.621 --> 00:12:35.798
Like what, like what feels like a
sort of you're doing things, but

00:12:35.798 --> 00:12:39.858
then what is actually productive
towards doing it, I guess motion is.

00:12:40.038 --> 00:12:40.788
Aaron: Motion versus

00:12:40.848 --> 00:12:41.358
Michele: action.

00:12:41.438 --> 00:12:41.958
Aaron: I think.

00:12:43.483 --> 00:12:45.013
Colleen: Anyway, you know

00:12:45.078 --> 00:12:45.468
Michele: Yeah.

00:12:45.738 --> 00:12:46.098
Yeah.

00:12:46.164 --> 00:12:48.954
Yeah, it sounds like it was
like, the workshop was almost

00:12:48.954 --> 00:12:50.694
like a productive failure.

00:12:51.196 --> 00:12:52.216
Aaron: Yes, absolutely.

00:12:52.716 --> 00:12:53.226
Colleen: it was good.

00:12:53.726 --> 00:12:56.426
Michele: It was kind of, I don't know
if you guys recorded this after you came

00:12:56.426 --> 00:12:59.036
back or what, but I feel like you guys
were talking on the Hammerson podcast

00:12:59.036 --> 00:13:03.146
recently about, this kind of like
marketing and sales thing and how like,

00:13:03.176 --> 00:13:08.240
Aaron, I mean, I think marketing is in
your job title if I remember correctly.

00:13:08.755 --> 00:13:09.115
Aaron: It is.

00:13:09.443 --> 00:13:14.773
Michele: So, and like this kind
of like shift from, from marketing

00:13:14.852 --> 00:13:21.045
to, to sales which is, it's
kind of like a big shift, right.

00:13:21.045 --> 00:13:22.365
And how you're thinking
about selling this.

00:13:22.865 --> 00:13:25.445
Aaron: Yeah, it's a big shift for me.

00:13:25.535 --> 00:13:30.944
I think I am prone to, one
wanting to develop things, to

00:13:30.944 --> 00:13:32.684
wanting to do things in bulk.

00:13:32.684 --> 00:13:39.104
And so transitioning to like a one-on-one
sales model is a huge shift for me.

00:13:39.607 --> 00:13:41.467
I think it's going to be super valid.

00:13:41.497 --> 00:13:45.337
Even the conversation we had with
Andy was really helpful because

00:13:45.367 --> 00:13:50.119
he kept saying things that almost
were a surprise to both of us, you

00:13:50.119 --> 00:13:51.319
would be so proud of us, Michelle.

00:13:51.319 --> 00:13:54.199
We did the whole, we like
customer interviewed and Colleen

00:13:54.199 --> 00:13:56.839
asked a question and then tried
to fill some awkward silence.

00:13:56.839 --> 00:13:57.499
And I told her.

00:13:57.759 --> 00:13:59.859
Colleen: Aaron, like we was
like, stop, I mean, you were.

00:14:00.139 --> 00:14:02.539
Aaron: I reached out and put
my hand on her arm and I said,

00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:04.039
no, no, no, let him talk.

00:14:05.535 --> 00:14:07.095
Michele: It's good to
have an interview partner.

00:14:07.135 --> 00:14:07.305
It

00:14:07.475 --> 00:14:07.835
Colleen: It yeah.

00:14:07.835 --> 00:14:08.445
Aaron: It was great.

00:14:08.855 --> 00:14:09.515
Colleen: I thought that was good.

00:14:10.015 --> 00:14:10.315
Aaron: Yeah.

00:14:10.315 --> 00:14:15.405
So I think, I think this is going to be
hugely valuable for us one, hopefully,

00:14:15.405 --> 00:14:19.459
because  we make sales, obviously that
would be goal number one, but it's

00:14:19.459 --> 00:14:23.449
also going to make our marketing a
lot better because we're going to know

00:14:23.629 --> 00:14:28.729
what, like what words the customers are
using and what pains they actually have.

00:14:29.239 --> 00:14:32.209
And Michelle, you probably are
unfamiliar with all of this.

00:14:32.209 --> 00:14:35.449
I'm telling you this for the
first time, um, talking to

00:14:35.449 --> 00:14:36.859
your customers is a good thing.

00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:38.209
Michele: You didn't hear it

00:14:38.209 --> 00:14:38.569
from me.

00:14:38.569 --> 00:14:39.814
You heard it from Aaron.

00:14:40.024 --> 00:14:40.714
Aaron: Yeah, that's Right.

00:14:40.714 --> 00:14:41.104
Yeah.

00:14:41.604 --> 00:14:47.354
So, and it, I don't emotionally, it feels
better, cause it feels like something new.

00:14:47.444 --> 00:14:52.837
It feels like, okay, we can try this
new thing and we can make some progress

00:14:52.837 --> 00:14:55.807
because I do feel like we've been in,
I don't know what it has been in motion

00:14:55.807 --> 00:14:59.677
a lot, but haven't been making a lot of
progress and this feels like progress.

00:15:00.412 --> 00:15:03.972
Michele: Um, I think it's also like,
you know, if you start out on it like a

00:15:03.972 --> 00:15:08.982
one-on-one sales model, like you're not
committing to that forever, like, right.

00:15:09.035 --> 00:15:14.075
You could do that for a while until,
you know, you get enough feedback

00:15:14.075 --> 00:15:18.804
doing this sort of combination
sales, interview type conversations,

00:15:18.804 --> 00:15:20.383
which is, you know, pretty common.

00:15:20.888 --> 00:15:24.111
You can't dive too deep emotionally,
but you can get a lot of really

00:15:24.111 --> 00:15:25.191
good information from it.

00:15:25.695 --> 00:15:27.525
But like, you don't
have to do that forever.

00:15:27.525 --> 00:15:30.803
You just need to do that until
the point where, you know, you're

00:15:30.803 --> 00:15:34.163
growing enough where, you know, the
landing pages have the right words

00:15:34.163 --> 00:15:35.963
on them,  the pricing model is right.

00:15:35.963 --> 00:15:39.383
Like, the delivery that like, you
know, you've kind of ironed out

00:15:39.383 --> 00:15:44.665
all of those different barriers
that people have to, to purchasing.

00:15:44.665 --> 00:15:48.911
And so like this could be, you know,
a couple of months or six months or

00:15:48.976 --> 00:15:52.876
whatever, like it's not forever that
you're going to have to do one-on-one.

00:15:53.581 --> 00:15:53.941
Colleen: Right.

00:15:54.461 --> 00:15:54.741
Michele: Colleen.

00:15:54.741 --> 00:15:57.748
What are you thinking about this
after doing that, I guess also

00:15:57.778 --> 00:16:03.525
unsuccessful, but  productively
unsuccessful sales demo  in the hotel

00:16:03.525 --> 00:16:05.375
lobby,  what was that like for you?

00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:07.260
Colleen: Well, I'm not gonna lie.

00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:07.800
What was that?

00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:09.340
Last week we were at rails conf.

00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.990
It was not awesome because we
give the sh crappy workshop and

00:16:12.990 --> 00:16:14.340
then Andy's like, yeah, I'm not.

00:16:14.430 --> 00:16:16.050
Like he, he liked the product.

00:16:16.050 --> 00:16:16.830
He was like, that's cool.

00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:23.269
But his need profile didn't match up
with we were trying to sell him, I guess.

00:16:23.772 --> 00:16:27.712
And basically the reason that was is
because he has a co-founder and they have

00:16:27.712 --> 00:16:31.852
a successful business, and we were leaning
in, one of the things we've been leaning

00:16:31.852 --> 00:16:38.332
into is like this concept of, we enable
you as the developer, no longer to have

00:16:38.332 --> 00:16:42.172
to write these custom SQL reports that
your marketing, your customer success

00:16:42.172 --> 00:16:44.032
team, your co-founder is asking for.

00:16:44.782 --> 00:16:46.939
And so, andy we've said his name.

00:16:46.939 --> 00:16:51.799
So the person we were discussing this
with is the technical co-founder, and

00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:55.359
he made the interesting point that he
was like, you're trying to sell this to

00:16:55.359 --> 00:17:00.849
me, but  I need to know if my co-founder
is going to be happy with the product.

00:17:01.352 --> 00:17:03.362
And so it was interesting.

00:17:03.412 --> 00:17:04.132
So it was really

00:17:04.272 --> 00:17:07.632
Michele: Oh, because the end user
is actually not the developer.

00:17:07.692 --> 00:17:13.142
It's the non-technical or non,
you know, the non-developer right.

00:17:13.192 --> 00:17:17.987
Like the like, oh, but it's the developer
who's aware of the problem that they're

00:17:17.987 --> 00:17:19.247
annoyed dealing with all of these.

00:17:19.522 --> 00:17:19.852
Colleen: Right.

00:17:20.092 --> 00:17:22.852
So the developer has the problem
because they have to build the

00:17:22.852 --> 00:17:27.112
reports, but the end user of the
product is the non-technical team.

00:17:27.612 --> 00:17:28.122
Michele: right?

00:17:28.627 --> 00:17:30.397
Colleen: So it's kind of an
interesting, so it was actually a

00:17:30.397 --> 00:17:32.017
really useful piece of information.

00:17:32.497 --> 00:17:33.007
Um,

00:17:33.509 --> 00:17:36.059
Michele: I mean, cause you've kinda
talked about this at like the manager,

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.577
you know, that like developers don't
necessarily value their time, as

00:17:39.577 --> 00:17:42.367
much as they should like, and like,
oh, I could build this in a week.

00:17:42.864 --> 00:17:43.434
Whatever right.

00:17:43.434 --> 00:17:45.834
You know, we've all seen the, you
know, the thing about Dropbox,

00:17:45.834 --> 00:17:46.824
like, oh, this is trivial.

00:17:46.824 --> 00:17:49.314
You just spin it up and Linux
and then do these 10 steps.

00:17:49.314 --> 00:17:51.354
That'll like take you like
two days and then it's easy.

00:17:51.894 --> 00:17:52.314
Right?

00:17:52.314 --> 00:17:54.726
We also got one of those comments
when we launched you geocodio.

00:17:54.826 --> 00:17:55.206
Thank you.

00:17:55.206 --> 00:17:55.836
Hacker news.

00:17:56.256 --> 00:18:00.156
Um, but like, it's, you know, it's
the manager, who's like, dude, you

00:18:00.156 --> 00:18:02.016
cannot spend a week doing that.

00:18:02.016 --> 00:18:04.403
Let's just pay for
something, that'll do that.

00:18:04.966 --> 00:18:08.543
And so we interestingly like re those
people, especially if, I mean, a

00:18:08.543 --> 00:18:12.346
lot of your list is like people who
were at lara conf on like that's the

00:18:12.346 --> 00:18:15.826
developers themselves, not their manager.

00:18:16.326 --> 00:18:19.506
Colleen: I think as we do more and more
of these one-on-one calls, we're going to

00:18:19.506 --> 00:18:22.176
get better exposure to that because, okay.

00:18:22.176 --> 00:18:26.586
So I have this experience and like
he's interested, but not totally sold.

00:18:27.189 --> 00:18:29.439
But then we get back and
then two people buy it.

00:18:30.009 --> 00:18:33.409
So I think people like this
guy we talked to at rails conf

00:18:33.429 --> 00:18:35.169
is not our customer right now.

00:18:35.489 --> 00:18:38.459
There are people out there who
are excited, who are pre-buying

00:18:38.459 --> 00:18:40.289
it before it is even done.

00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:44.819
I think we need to lean into those people,
and that's our first set of customers.

00:18:44.894 --> 00:18:46.064
Michele: Talk to them first.

00:18:46.409 --> 00:18:46.739
Colleen: Right,

00:18:47.054 --> 00:18:47.504
Michele: them

00:18:48.004 --> 00:18:48.424
Colleen: Right.

00:18:48.674 --> 00:18:51.874
Michele: And figure out like, what
is leading them to pre-buy it?

00:18:51.874 --> 00:18:52.984
What are those problems?

00:18:53.533 --> 00:18:56.123
Who is the decision maker on buying it?

00:18:56.213 --> 00:18:59.273
You know, like how did that process
go internally to even say that

00:18:59.273 --> 00:19:01.763
they could pre-order it right.

00:19:02.266 --> 00:19:03.226
Set up interviews with.

00:19:03.929 --> 00:19:04.289
Colleen: Yeah.

00:19:04.469 --> 00:19:06.079
So I don't know.

00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.469
I feel like that was
really good information.

00:19:08.679 --> 00:19:11.169
And now we can really dive
into these customer interviews.

00:19:11.169 --> 00:19:14.543
Aaron and I have a goal of doing a
call a week and we're going to be more

00:19:14.543 --> 00:19:16.073
aggressive about finding those people.

00:19:16.103 --> 00:19:20.563
We have 500 people on our email list, so
should be able to have plenty of calls.

00:19:20.998 --> 00:19:21.388
Michele: Yeah.

00:19:22.249 --> 00:19:29.376
But hold on before we go, we need to thank
our wonderful supporters of this podcast.

00:19:29.879 --> 00:19:31.589
I guess I'll do the read today.

00:19:31.589 --> 00:19:32.459
I think you did it last time.

00:19:32.754 --> 00:19:33.234
Colleen: I did.

00:19:33.324 --> 00:19:33.774
Yes.

00:19:33.874 --> 00:19:34.234
Michele: Okay.

00:19:34.289 --> 00:19:37.215
So we want to give a huge thanks to
all of our listeners who've become

00:19:37.215 --> 00:19:39.075
software socialites and support our show.

00:19:39.555 --> 00:19:42.825
You can become a supporter for $10
a month or a hundred dollars a year

00:19:42.825 --> 00:19:45.345
at software social.dev/supporters.

00:19:46.185 --> 00:19:49.845
Chris, from chipper CI, the
daringly handsome, Kevin Griffin.

00:19:49.845 --> 00:19:52.245
I still can't believe
he has me reading that.

00:19:52.275 --> 00:19:57.765
But, um, Mike from gently used
domains, Dave from Recut, max of online

00:19:57.765 --> 00:19:59.625
or not, Stefan from talk to Stefan,

00:20:00.126 --> 00:20:04.866
Brendan Andre of bright bits,
Aaron from Tuple, who is that?

00:20:05.436 --> 00:20:08.093
Uh, that sounds like a cool guy.

00:20:08.093 --> 00:20:09.353
Maybe we should have him on the show.

00:20:09.851 --> 00:20:14.766
Alex Hillman from the tiny MBA, Ramy from
memo.fm, Jane and Benedikt from userlist,

00:20:14.796 --> 00:20:17.196
Kendall Morgan, Ruben Gomez of signwell,

00:20:17.196 --> 00:20:19.386
Corey Haynes of swipewell,

00:20:19.386 --> 00:20:24.186
Mike Wade of crowd sentury,
Nate Ritter of room steals, and

00:20:24.186 --> 00:20:25.716
Anna Maste of subscribed sense,

00:20:25.746 --> 00:20:27.156
Geoff Roberts from outseta,

00:20:27.921 --> 00:20:32.751
Justin Jackson from MegaMaker, Jack
Ellis and Paul Darvis from fathom

00:20:32.751 --> 00:20:38.151
analytics, Matthew from appointment
reminder, Andrew Culver at bullet train,

00:20:38.651 --> 00:20:43.931
John Koster, Alex of corso
systems, Richard from stunning, Josh,

00:20:43.961 --> 00:20:49.391
the annoyingly pragmatic founder,
Ben from consent kit, John from

00:20:49.391 --> 00:20:54.311
credo and editorninja, cam Sloan,
Michael Koper of nusii proposals,

00:20:54.581 --> 00:21:00.941
Chris from URL box, Caeli from tosslet,
Greg park from traitlab, Adam from

00:21:00.941 --> 00:21:04.061
rails autoscale, Lana and Alex of Recapsy,

00:21:04.061 --> 00:21:07.866
Joe Masilotti of railsdev.com,

00:21:08.226 --> 00:21:14.826
Arvid Kahl, James Sowers of Castaway.fm,
Nathan of develop your UX,

00:21:15.006 --> 00:21:20.309
Jessica Malnik, Damian Moore of
audio audit podcast checker,

00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:23.839
and Elden from nodlestudios.

00:21:24.336 --> 00:21:28.706
Thank you so much to all of
our supporters, and Aaron,

00:21:29.056 --> 00:21:31.016
Colleen wraps us up for.

00:21:31.769 --> 00:21:32.849
Aaron: Thanks for having me on.

00:21:33.351 --> 00:21:33.571
Michele: See yah.