WEBVTT 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:09.680 Zannat Reza: We've all heard people accusing other generations of being the source of society's problems. 00:00:09.910 --> 00:00:13.120 That they're entitled, or lazy, or they've had an easy ride. 00:00:13.555 --> 00:00:15.705 And these accusations come from all sides. 00:00:15.705 --> 00:00:21.824 But we all share this world, so what if solving our problems is more than just about tolerating each other? 00:00:22.155 --> 00:00:27.585 What if collaboration rather than competition is the key to overcoming today's biggest challenges? 00:00:27.885 --> 00:00:33.690 So how do we set aside our differences and tap into the hidden opportunity of generations working together? 00:00:33.690 --> 00:00:35.585 I'm Zannat Reza. 00:00:35.625 --> 00:00:42.914 Welcome to The Future Age Podcast, where we explore bold ideas and creative solutions in reimagining life as we get older. 00:00:43.410 --> 00:00:49.269 In this episode, we're going to explore the power of different age groups working together to build a better future. 00:00:49.580 --> 00:00:52.390 It's not just about mentorship or passing the baton. 00:00:52.620 --> 00:00:57.590 It's about the ways that older and younger adults can benefit by tackling challenges together. 00:00:57.850 --> 00:01:00.370 From the housing crisis to climate change. 00:01:02.910 --> 00:01:15.510 I spoke to Eunice Lin Nichols, one of the founders of CoGenerate, an organization in the US that's dedicated to finding ways for older and younger people to solve problems together, bridge divides, and co-create the future. 00:01:15.969 --> 00:01:23.710 I also spoke to Akaya Windwood, a celebrated activist and transformational leader with more awards and accolades that I can mention here. 00:01:24.024 --> 00:01:31.175 She's currently the lead advisor at Third Act, an organization that mobilizes older adults to advocate for a better world. 00:01:31.674 --> 00:01:36.685 She'll share insights about how generations can push for positive social change together. 00:01:37.065 --> 00:01:44.615 We'll start with my conversation with Eunice, where I ask her, what are some common misconceptions people have about generations working together? 00:01:45.345 --> 00:02:00.775 Eunice Lin Nichols: Well, I'd say one of the biggest misconceptions that we come across is, uh, when we cast this vision for olders and youngers coming together to make change happen in the community, is I'll have people say, well, but do younger people really want to work with us if I'm talking to an older crowd? 00:02:01.035 --> 00:02:06.825 Or the opposite will be true, where people who are younger will say, do older people really want anything to do with us? 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:13.390 We had been saying this for quite a while, and we thought we should just go out and get the data to see if it's true. 00:02:13.410 --> 00:02:21.099 And so about two years ago, we launched a major research project, a national opinion research project, with the University of Chicago. 00:02:21.579 --> 00:02:32.795 And we asked over fifteen hundred people of all ages what they thought about this idea of co-generation, of older and younger having a reason to make change happen in society together. 00:02:32.994 --> 00:02:42.264 What was surprising was that while everybody said it was a good thing and that they wanted it, young people, Gen Z, actually reported wanting it at the highest levels. 00:02:42.710 --> 00:02:49.990 I've talked to so many older adults over the twenty plus years that I've been in this role, are really wanting to connect with young people. 00:02:49.990 --> 00:02:52.279 It's part of what makes them feel alive. 00:02:52.330 --> 00:02:57.560 There's a lot of the two-way mentoring and teaching of new language, new ideas that happens. 00:02:57.709 --> 00:02:59.170 It's really a beautiful thing. 00:02:59.545 --> 00:03:05.475 The other thing that was interesting was when we said, well, if it's such a good idea, everybody wants it, why isn't it happening more? 00:03:05.875 --> 00:03:10.415 And it turns out that society is really structured in ways that silo us. 00:03:10.435 --> 00:03:21.285 And so younger and older people don't actually have a lot of practice being in conversation with each other, as they're aware that they're in quite different life stages, have different language, different views sometimes of the world. 00:03:21.835 --> 00:03:33.635 Zannat Reza: So sounds like organizations need to be more intentional about creating spaces for generations to interact, connect, and learn through their differences so together they can make good things happen in their communities. 00:03:34.549 --> 00:03:43.739 Eunice Lin Nichols: I'll say the other one is that sometimes when we use the word intergenerational connection or collaboration, the response we get is, oh, that's so sweet. 00:03:43.739 --> 00:03:44.489 Or that's so nice. 00:03:44.489 --> 00:03:46.670 You almost get that sense of like, let me pinch you on the cheeks. 00:03:46.670 --> 00:03:47.820 It's so, it's so cute. 00:03:48.334 --> 00:03:51.144 And while I get that, I think that's a big misconception. 00:03:51.144 --> 00:03:56.345 I think that intergenerational collaboration is both urgent and necessary. 00:03:56.394 --> 00:04:08.050 Anytime I think you have the intersection of incredible diversity with incredible siloing of that diverse population, there's just potential for a powder keg moment to happen. 00:04:08.140 --> 00:04:15.480 And we've seen that play out in the media around a lot of narratives of generational warfare and tensions, finger pointing, name calling. 00:04:15.569 --> 00:04:22.420 Our research with University of Chicago shows actually the appetite and desire is completely opposite of the narratives we're hearing. 00:04:22.664 --> 00:04:27.895 This moment is a time when we actually have equal numbers, when we have this true diversity of ages. 00:04:27.925 --> 00:04:34.834 This is the moment for intergenerational collaboration to be the centerpiece of how we design, how we operate. 00:04:35.205 --> 00:04:47.125 If we can do that in the next decade and kind of reset the narratives we have and the ways of being, and give people a chance to practice being together, that's, I think, what will set us up to function in a much more healthy way as a society. 00:04:47.655 --> 00:04:52.855 Zannat Reza: I like what you're saying about we need to break down age silos and create those shared spaces. 00:04:52.875 --> 00:04:54.505 So how do we do that? 00:04:54.705 --> 00:04:58.384 How do we foster meaningful connections between people of all ages? 00:04:58.445 --> 00:05:03.344 Eunice Lin Nichols: There are amazing things that can happen out of that connection and collaboration, but it's also messy. 00:05:03.385 --> 00:05:09.065 Then we have to be comfortable sitting in the messiness of building relationships across difference. 00:05:09.509 --> 00:05:16.599 We love thinking about how we use three P's, proximity, purpose, and problem solving to help us bridge these generational divides. 00:05:16.609 --> 00:05:22.249 One is in the places where we live, where we work, where we go to school to learn, where we serve. 00:05:22.529 --> 00:05:25.759 Our society has naturally been designed to keep generations apart. 00:05:25.799 --> 00:05:29.289 We have younger people at schools, older people in retirement communities. 00:05:29.419 --> 00:05:41.315 You know, the workplace is actually probably one of the few places where there can be five or six generations working at one time, where we can tap into the natural reality of a multigenerational team. 00:05:41.425 --> 00:05:55.515 So in the places where older and younger are already coming together, how can we actually do more intentional training and coaching around communication and relationship building in places where older and younger exist but are completely siloed programmatically? 00:05:55.755 --> 00:05:59.335 How do we actually design to bring those elements together? 00:05:59.565 --> 00:06:10.789 I think a lot about our community centers, places where younger and older people both go, but the programming is designed where the older person might have, you know, like an eight AM exercise class. 00:06:10.789 --> 00:06:14.890 And then young people have a completely different class in a different part of the building. 00:06:15.130 --> 00:06:15.989 They never meet. 00:06:16.289 --> 00:06:24.030 It would not take much to actually say how might we, on occasion, experiment with joint programming and see what they could bring to one another. 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:26.450 So that's sort of the proximity piece. 00:06:26.950 --> 00:06:29.360 On the purpose, bringing people together is wonderful. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.900 Relationship building always needs to be the number one anchor point. 00:06:33.140 --> 00:06:39.659 But the stickiness of older and younger coming together is really increased when they have a shared sense of purpose. 00:06:39.790 --> 00:06:47.349 If they have a shared sense of purpose, why they want to be there, and then actually feel like coming together can solve a real shared community problem. 00:06:47.665 --> 00:06:55.135 We often like to think about how you can stack relationship, add on purpose, and then have people work together for the common good. 00:06:55.375 --> 00:07:00.645 Zannat Reza: So what are some of those real world issues that people from different generations can work on together? 00:07:01.015 --> 00:07:07.525 Eunice's group asked people that, and one thing that came up from both younger and older people was climate change. 00:07:07.635 --> 00:07:12.225 Eunice Lin Nichols: So this is a natural area where older and younger could become real allies to one another. 00:07:12.414 --> 00:07:17.154 We love to tell the story of Bill McKibben who launched something called Third Act. 00:07:17.505 --> 00:07:24.615 It's an organization that's designed to mobilize older adults to be allies to young people in the fight to safeguard our climate. 00:07:25.564 --> 00:07:29.804 It's built on the idea of bringing older and younger people together around relationship building. 00:07:30.045 --> 00:07:37.585 And then looking at the unique assets and resources that each generation has, young people are very activated in this space. 00:07:37.795 --> 00:07:41.325 For them, it is about their, their future and whether or not they'll have one. 00:07:41.495 --> 00:07:48.394 Older people have access to a lot of the resources, to money, to relationships with policymakers. 00:07:48.514 --> 00:07:51.025 They have the power in many ways that young people need. 00:07:51.250 --> 00:07:54.000 Zannat Reza: You'll hear more about Third Act later in this episode. 00:07:54.070 --> 00:07:58.160 Another problem that generations can address together is housing affordability. 00:07:58.370 --> 00:08:05.370 There are a variety of programs across the country focused on creating co-living situations between younger and older adults. 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:07.099 That's win win for everyone. 00:08:07.450 --> 00:08:15.940 One example is Canada HomeShare, a not for profit that matches post secondary students looking for a place to stay with older homeowners who have a spare room. 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.320 The students can get cheaper rent, and the homeowners can get a bit of extra cash. 00:08:20.705 --> 00:08:24.295 The added benefit is reducing social isolation for both of them. 00:08:24.515 --> 00:08:32.385 There are other similar programs like the Canadian Alliance for Intergenerational Living in the Calgary area and SpacesShared in Ontario. 00:08:32.784 --> 00:08:38.015 Since we're talking about shared spaces, I also wanted to get Eunice's perspective on the workplace. 00:08:38.354 --> 00:08:44.925 I mean, workplaces are one of those spaces where people of different ages come together every day to work on shared problems. 00:08:45.385 --> 00:08:50.355 So, how can organizations leverage that to encourage cooperation between age groups? 00:08:50.795 --> 00:08:52.735 Eunice says it starts with language. 00:08:53.005 --> 00:08:57.155 That's why she uses the word co-generational instead of intergenerational. 00:08:57.234 --> 00:09:01.655 Eunice Lin Nichols: We wanted a word that was more centered on taking action together. 00:09:01.695 --> 00:09:13.635 So my first piece of advice would be, to be intentional about how you can center co-generation in your work, in your community, in places where you interact with others. 00:09:14.085 --> 00:09:16.215 Our workplaces will need to be redesigned. 00:09:16.225 --> 00:09:18.355 So we have to have strategies to prepare for it. 00:09:18.855 --> 00:09:29.365 I think a good place to start is to think about, many of us have started to lean into the importance of having a really robust diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging initiative in our organizations. 00:09:29.670 --> 00:09:31.670 Age diversity is often left out of that. 00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:34.890 The places where we bring people together can be a place to start to combat that. 00:09:34.959 --> 00:09:44.419 So how can we add multigenerational, intergenerational collaboration into the places where we're really trying to center inclusion, belonging, and diversity? 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:55.230 Zannat Reza: There's actually a group called the Age-Friendly Institute that's developed certification for organizations that have policies to create a supportive workplace for people over the age of fifty. 00:09:55.650 --> 00:10:02.600 These organizations can apply to get designated as a Certified Age Friendly Employer, also known as the CAFE program. 00:10:03.040 --> 00:10:11.820 In Canada, Aging Proactively, an affiliate of the Institute, is working with twenty organizations that are part of the Tourism Industry Association of Nova Scotia. 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:18.560 As an aside, SE Health is the first healthcare organization in Canada to get the CAFE designation. 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:26.950 If you're interested in hearing more about the benefits of age diversity in the workplace, you should check out episode two of this podcast called The Future of Work. 00:10:27.470 --> 00:10:28.919 Back to Eunice's advice. 00:10:29.219 --> 00:10:38.869 Eunice Lin Nichols: Another piece of advice I would have is, we did a report about a year ago on what young leaders want and don't want from older allies. 00:10:39.380 --> 00:10:41.030 It was sponsored by in part by AARP. 00:10:41.699 --> 00:10:54.000 So we sat and listened to a group of young people just talk about the experiences they'd had working with older adults, and what they need in order to be successful in a collaborative, generationally collaborative space. 00:10:54.579 --> 00:10:58.819 One thing that young people said is, relationship has to come first. 00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:02.169 They are wanting authentic, vulnerable relationships. 00:11:02.670 --> 00:11:06.119 We started earlier in our conversation talking about climate change. 00:11:06.129 --> 00:11:11.655 For young people, there's a sense of unknowableness about their future and what it will look like. 00:11:11.695 --> 00:11:14.405 So there's an urgency to make things happen now. 00:11:14.605 --> 00:11:19.705 We like to remind baby boomers and many olders that there was a moment when it felt that way for them too. 00:11:19.954 --> 00:11:29.735 It is like the legacy of our civil rights, women's rights, many of these movements felt like there was an urgency of we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but it's so easy to forget that. 00:11:30.265 --> 00:11:40.960 I was just in a town hall meeting where an older LGBTQ advocate said, sometimes it feels like with young people, we just think, oh, they need to wait their, their time. 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:43.560 They need to learn from all the work that's come before. 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:52.440 And then he said, and then I reminded myself when I started advocating for LGBTQ rights during the midst of the HIV crisis, he's like, I was twenty-four. 00:11:52.610 --> 00:11:56.000 And I felt fully ready to lead that because nobody else was leading it. 00:11:56.469 --> 00:12:04.829 This idea that leadership can be co-generational, that older and younger can be a team with equal power. 00:12:05.260 --> 00:12:13.199 Working from different areas of expertise, but can bring that lived experience to the table, I think is going to be one of the biggest moves that we can make. 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:23.870 Proactively tapping young people, not to have a token role on the side on an advisory committee, or just to like be the one person in the room so we can kind of check the box. 00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:30.279 But to say how might we actually help olders and youngers come together in equal numbers, share in the problem solving. 00:12:30.430 --> 00:12:38.300 I think if we're able to do that, then you'll have younger people who really start to care about the issues that are impacting older adults and vice versa. 00:12:38.310 --> 00:12:40.970 And we have a shot at solving some of these things together. 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:46.620 Zannat Reza: We've been talking about real and tangible ways to bring generations together, which benefits everyone. 00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:48.909 So what exactly is standing in the way? 00:12:49.190 --> 00:12:53.100 Eunice has thought a lot about these obstacles and how we can overcome them. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:13:02.620 Eunice Lin Nichols: The work of co-generation falls into three categories, imagination, innovation, and investment in leaders. 00:13:02.899 --> 00:13:12.299 It points to where we feel there's a deficit, this kind of failure of imagination in society to see a different path other than generations divided or a zero sum game. 00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:21.360 The way to combat that is to tell new and better stories that are about the fact that people are coming together across these generational divides everywhere. 00:13:21.420 --> 00:13:22.930 We're not prioritizing those stories. 00:13:22.939 --> 00:13:25.510 So how might, you know, I think we all have a role in doing that. 00:13:25.959 --> 00:13:30.099 On the innovation side, that gets at the fact that we are so age segregated. 00:13:30.420 --> 00:13:31.870 I think there's something everybody can do. 00:13:31.949 --> 00:13:38.349 If you look around and you see somebody of a different generation, we just have to like step across the divide and say, how might I actually say hello? 00:13:38.349 --> 00:13:41.150 And then offer to do something with that person. 00:13:41.329 --> 00:13:44.810 Then the last one is really this failure of investment. 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:51.170 So few people are actually funding or putting resources towards an intergenerational approach. 00:13:51.439 --> 00:13:53.670 Our funding streams are also siloed. 00:13:54.009 --> 00:14:00.659 Funding for young people versus funding for older people without a real view that if we could bring those two together. 00:14:00.839 --> 00:14:05.249 The Eisner Foundation, which is the only funder in the country focused on intergenerational programming. 00:14:05.545 --> 00:14:08.524 Uh, Trent Stamp will often say, it's like every dollar spent twice. 00:14:08.984 --> 00:14:14.384 Zannat Reza: When you talk about the power of storytelling, are there specific stories that stand out for you? 00:14:14.524 --> 00:14:23.719 Eunice Lin Nichols: At the heart of the pandemic, there was an op-ed that came out calling young people to step up and help support getting people educated about the getting the COVID vaccine shot. 00:14:23.849 --> 00:14:43.769 We ended up writing an op-ed that said this is a great call to action, but let's not forget about all of these retired medical professionals who could be called back into service to collaborate with young people, to help safeguard our nation during this critical time, and tap into the experience of people who actually are skilled and have been trained in how to give shots. 00:14:44.245 --> 00:14:51.395 Right now, we are experiencing that around voter registration as we come up on a really important time in our country's history. 00:14:51.585 --> 00:15:03.604 There are a number of older organizations, Third Act being one of them, CoGenerate being another, that are forming new partnerships with organizations that are all about young people, 18by Vote, um, Do Something, New Voters. 00:15:03.904 --> 00:15:10.195 They're actually really eager to have older adults in the room to share stories of like, what was it like for you the first time you voted? 00:15:10.390 --> 00:15:18.979 How do you hear stories of older immigrants who have come here, and that the right to vote, to be given that in this country, means something deep and profound? 00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:24.840 I think young people need to be reinspired on why to be involved in our country's democratic process. 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:28.939 You can't do that if you just have a room of young people trying to get people registered to vote. 00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:35.740 You need the olders in the room too, that there is no expiration date on giving back and engaging in the community. 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:41.390 Zannat Reza: Eunice mentioned the organization Third Act a couple of times when she talked about finding shared purpose. 00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:46.730 Third Act's mission is to mobilize people over the age of sixty to get involved in advocacy. 00:15:47.140 --> 00:15:50.649 That work involves engaging with younger generations as well. 00:15:50.869 --> 00:15:54.440 I got in touch with the Lead Advisor at Third Act, Akaya Windwood. 00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:58.050 She calls herself an author, a coach, and a rabble rouser. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.880 She has an impressive background in advocacy. 00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:08.509 In fact, she recently joined forces with Jane Fonda and Bernie Sanders to get the vote out for the Kamala Harris presidential campaign. 00:16:08.950 --> 00:16:19.020 Among her many accolades, she was an Ella Award recipient from the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights and was one of Conscious Company's thirty world changing women in 2018. 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:24.730 We talked about what she learned about working with younger people and how to push for change together. 00:16:24.939 --> 00:16:29.410 But first, I wanted to hear more about her fascinating background that led her to this work. 00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:31.850 Akaya Windwood: I'm literally born an activist. 00:16:31.870 --> 00:16:38.110 My parents were both presidents of the NAACP way back in the sixties. 00:16:38.530 --> 00:16:43.659 I was on the first bus to integrate San Bernardino city schools here in California. 00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:48.299 And it didn't occur to me to think otherwise, right? 00:16:48.390 --> 00:16:52.240 And at the time there were only eight of us on that bus. 00:16:52.310 --> 00:16:56.199 So we were dropped off, two black kids per white school. 00:16:56.560 --> 00:17:06.880 I remember how lonesome I was because I'd come from a very active black community, and here I was in this white community that had no interest in any of us being there. 00:17:07.059 --> 00:17:10.619 And we persisted and life is different now. 00:17:11.550 --> 00:17:18.019 So I don't remember a time when I wasn't an activist, even though I would never have called myself such a thing. 00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:19.899 And I still don't really. 00:17:20.139 --> 00:17:23.970 Rabble rouser is a much better, better term for what I do. 00:17:25.040 --> 00:17:25.730 Zannat Reza: I love that. 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:46.290 So maybe if you could tell me a little bit about Third Act, cause it's a organization that you've co founded and, you know, when I was looking at, uh, your YouTube clip with the Bioneers conference in 2023, the one part that really resonated with me was when you talked about we need to re engage in social activism. 00:17:46.290 --> 00:17:48.669 And this is for folks over the age of sixty. 00:17:48.999 --> 00:17:56.440 But the part that I loved was when you talked about re engaging through kindness, music, art, community, and healing. 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:02.309 And I thought that is so beautiful and that really transcends generations. 00:18:02.875 --> 00:18:03.625 Akaya Windwood: It does. 00:18:03.975 --> 00:18:24.775 I mean, when I think about the soundtrack of my teenage years in, you know, the sixties and seventies, still it's very bright and so, you know, disco and Crosby, Stills, and Ashton Young and all the, you know, hopeful songs that we were listening to, that were in some, many ways, uh, you know, background to the, the times. 00:18:25.370 --> 00:18:37.870 This was when the anti war movement was going on and the women's movement and the American Indian movement and civil rights and the beginning of the LBGTQ queer movement. 00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:44.740 I mean, there were so many movements that were happening at that time and music was a huge part of it. 00:18:45.065 --> 00:18:46.965 And art was a big part of it. 00:18:47.045 --> 00:18:55.545 So that seems to have stayed somewhat steady, even as the movements have changed quite a bit over the years. 00:18:55.864 --> 00:19:10.275 How we go about organizing, how we go about our activism, the mechanisms by which that happens, have changed drastically, whereas, you know, we would put a poster on a, on a wall and hope that enough people saw it. 00:19:10.605 --> 00:19:16.725 And now it's online and in many venues and that's part of why Third Act actually came into being. 00:19:16.905 --> 00:19:26.885 Part of the reason that we have some of the values that we have around kindness and welcoming, celebration, well that's been really important to me my whole life. 00:19:27.505 --> 00:19:38.239 I believe deeply that if we're going to have successful social movements, they've got to include the part of us that is joyous and human and celebratory. 00:19:38.710 --> 00:19:41.540 Otherwise, it's kind of a drag. 00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:42.439 Why bother? 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.159 I wish that our social movement celebrated more. 00:19:46.709 --> 00:19:49.050 That we could take a breath and go, wow, that happened. 00:19:49.409 --> 00:19:52.939 That is a key cultural component to Third Act. 00:19:53.570 --> 00:20:03.340 That we do witness and pause and celebrate and, you know, be grateful for the contributions that everybody's making. 00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:08.810 Zannat Reza: One of the things you talk about is working with other generations. 00:20:09.429 --> 00:20:18.990 And it's a matter of stepping beside those generations versus in front of generations to say, hey, we are the elders, we have all the answers. 00:20:19.050 --> 00:20:24.070 Maybe you could speak to some of that intergenerational work that is happening and needs to happen. 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:25.889 Akaya Windwood: My favorite work right now. 00:20:26.650 --> 00:20:34.280 I love talking with the next generations because you all are thinking very differently than, than we are. 00:20:34.419 --> 00:20:41.340 For those of us who are over sixty, we were raised in a particular cultural timeframe. 00:20:41.409 --> 00:20:55.610 I like to joke that we were the first generation to ever go through, through puberty, and the very first generation to ever have children and, or get homes or any of that, and we're probably going to be the first generation to ever die, right? 00:20:56.150 --> 00:21:04.340 We kind of got taught that the world begins and ends with us, and we're the smart generation, and we're the big generation, and all the things. 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.010 Well, it's not true. 00:21:06.110 --> 00:21:09.920 We are smart, we are a big generation, and there's a lot we don't know. 00:21:10.810 --> 00:21:16.340 I was talking with a young friend of mine several years ago, and I said, maybe it's time for us to step aside. 00:21:16.540 --> 00:21:23.140 And she said, no, it's not time for you to step aside, it's time for you to step beside us. 00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:31.630 So that we can count on you, we can lean on you, we can, you know, have access to your wisdom, but it's time for you to get out from in front of the room. 00:21:31.950 --> 00:21:32.860 And I said, you're right. 00:21:33.385 --> 00:21:34.685 That's absolutely right. 00:21:34.755 --> 00:21:43.235 So that's part of why I love these cross generation conversations, because I can get out from in front of the room and actually learn some things. 00:21:43.334 --> 00:21:45.455 It's so much fun. 00:21:45.565 --> 00:21:49.065 Sometimes I'm uncomfortable because I like to feel like I'm right, right? 00:21:49.105 --> 00:21:51.465 That I'm wise and I know a lot. 00:21:51.505 --> 00:21:53.245 Well, that's true. 00:21:54.855 --> 00:22:10.764 And it's also true that I can't quite figure out how to get my earphones working with my computer, and I know that the kids across the street who are in their thirties could handle that in like two seconds, right? 00:22:10.924 --> 00:22:22.440 So to be able to laugh at my, the limitations of my thinking, and then open my mind, and open my heart for new ways of thinking. 00:22:22.450 --> 00:22:24.730 That's been both a gift and a challenge. 00:22:25.679 --> 00:22:30.500 Zannat Reza: So picking up on that, you talk about the joy of working with people of different ages. 00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:33.990 What are some ways to foster that kind of collaboration? 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:39.255 Akaya Windwood: First of all, we need to have some humility, right? 00:22:39.375 --> 00:22:41.415 It's on all sides, right? 00:22:41.415 --> 00:22:45.415 And, and the kind of, oh, okay, boomer, that's not gonna be helpful. 00:22:45.485 --> 00:22:49.045 Or if I'm, if I'm bringing my, oh, millennials are, you know, slackers. 00:22:49.135 --> 00:22:49.975 None of that. 00:22:50.185 --> 00:22:55.895 Setting that aside so that I can say, oh, here I am in conversation with this amazing person. 00:22:56.425 --> 00:22:57.955 What will we learn from one another? 00:22:58.275 --> 00:23:01.585 And to allow myself to get uncomfortable. 00:23:02.095 --> 00:23:09.765 Zannat Reza: When we're thinking about mobilizing people of different ages towards activism, what role does storytelling play? 00:23:10.154 --> 00:23:15.114 Akaya Windwood: I think it is about creating the, the circumstances by which we can hear each other's stories. 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:23.360 I've had and hosted a number of conversations over the last several years, across generations, and they've been fascinating. 00:23:23.529 --> 00:23:30.190 I'm fortunate in that I'm in a role where I can do that, but we can do that in our families, right? 00:23:30.250 --> 00:23:36.760 To actually deliberately create space and time where we can listen to one another. 00:23:36.945 --> 00:23:44.775 And not correct one another and not say, that's the right way to think about things, but to just go, wow, I, I don't think about it that way. 00:23:44.785 --> 00:23:45.835 Here's how I think about it. 00:23:46.244 --> 00:23:56.695 And to interrupt any patterns of competition of who's got the righteous way to think about something or do something, and to step into more curiosity. 00:23:57.435 --> 00:24:00.155 Zannat Reza: We've heard this idea now from both Eunice and Akaya. 00:24:00.385 --> 00:24:03.564 We can redefine our world by changing the stories we tell. 00:24:04.130 --> 00:24:06.180 That's something I'm familiar with in my work. 00:24:06.350 --> 00:24:17.260 At SE Health, we launched an initiative with Covenant Health called Courage Action for Better Aging, where we invite current and future older adults to work together so they can age on their own terms. 00:24:17.690 --> 00:24:23.170 A key element is making sure people feel a sense of self worth and connection to their communities. 00:24:23.639 --> 00:24:26.409 Third Act has excelled at building that sense of purpose. 00:24:26.770 --> 00:24:32.250 So I wanted to get Akaya's perspective on how they've been so successful at mobilizing older adults. 00:24:33.010 --> 00:24:37.790 Akaya Windwood: I think what we did was tap into an unmet need that we didn't know. 00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:40.050 Because it shocked us, I have to say. 00:24:40.330 --> 00:24:40.750 What? 00:24:40.820 --> 00:24:42.140 How did this happen so quickly? 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:47.179 And I want to lift up the staff right now because they've done an amazing job. 00:24:47.180 --> 00:25:06.470 I think more than anything we gave, we offered, an opportunity for people over sixty to either come back to activism or become part of an activist organization for the first time in their lives, some for some, right? 00:25:06.840 --> 00:25:09.020 Because we are a generation that cares. 00:25:09.574 --> 00:25:16.725 And I think because of generational issues, we didn't have ways to actually engage in social movements that are happening now. 00:25:16.895 --> 00:25:20.064 Um, and so we said, well, here's a platform. 00:25:20.084 --> 00:25:21.865 Let's all go do something amazing. 00:25:21.865 --> 00:25:23.544 And everybody, and people started going, yes. 00:25:23.784 --> 00:25:31.400 And people began to self organize in regions and professions and made working groups. 00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:35.700 We actually help the working groups organize themselves. 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:36.840 That's a lot of what we do. 00:25:37.060 --> 00:25:39.720 So if we're going to, you know, march in the streets, let's dance. 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.580 I think in many ways, a lot of folks are isolated because of age. 00:25:44.650 --> 00:25:52.535 And so this became a way for people who had been isolated to interrupt that and become part of things again. 00:25:53.155 --> 00:25:56.735 Zannat Reza: I love what you said in terms of, we're gonna march, might as well dance. 00:25:57.435 --> 00:25:58.505 I can totally picture that. 00:25:58.505 --> 00:26:04.105 Can you give some specific examples of success, and particularly around climate change? 00:26:04.435 --> 00:26:10.405 Akaya Windwood: We are in conversation with the four major banks around divesting from fossil fuel. 00:26:10.515 --> 00:26:12.715 And, you know, they're listening. 00:26:12.805 --> 00:26:15.935 People over sixty in this country own seventy percent of the wealth. 00:26:16.225 --> 00:26:18.014 That's a lot of imbalance. 00:26:18.014 --> 00:26:19.985 As a generation, we have a lot of resources. 00:26:19.985 --> 00:26:20.935 We also have time. 00:26:21.175 --> 00:26:32.985 If I'm the CEO of Citibank, for instance, and I, we've got a bunch of people over sixty with a whole lot of money saying, we want you to rethink your investment in fossil fuels. 00:26:33.225 --> 00:26:37.644 I'm going to pay a little more attention, I think, than perhaps I might to other folks. 00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:41.590 Zannat Reza: Do you think ageism plays a role in creating change? 00:26:41.610 --> 00:26:48.580 Because on the one hand, you're saying people are paying attention because seventy percent of the wealth is held by people over the age of sixty. 00:26:48.699 --> 00:26:54.409 You know, I was having conversations with a group of older adults around organizing for a social movement. 00:26:54.439 --> 00:26:59.029 And they said, well, gotta get younger people involved because no one's really listening to us because of our age. 00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:02.570 Akaya Windwood: That's definitely a piece without a doubt. 00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:06.960 But I'm also, I would argue that we're not listening very well either. 00:27:07.145 --> 00:27:09.625 We can get very judgmental. 00:27:09.735 --> 00:27:14.335 And when people get judgmental, other people tend to tune out. 00:27:14.565 --> 00:27:16.065 So, is ageism real? 00:27:16.125 --> 00:27:16.935 Absolutely. 00:27:17.325 --> 00:27:30.195 I think it's really about having the conversations that are necessary now, across generations, that will interrupt some of the ageism that we experience, but also we can be disparaging of the next generation. 00:27:30.245 --> 00:27:34.094 So, being able to be a good elder is important. 00:27:34.275 --> 00:27:37.712 And many, very many of us did not get good eldering. 00:27:37.712 --> 00:27:40.564 Zannat Reza: So, how do people become good elders? 00:27:40.565 --> 00:27:41.035 Akaya Windwood: Listening. 00:27:41.224 --> 00:27:43.034 Opening up our, our minds. 00:27:43.295 --> 00:27:45.425 Being willing to support. 00:27:45.814 --> 00:27:50.764 I think that's probably the biggest gift we as elders can offer, to say, what do you need from me? 00:27:50.764 --> 00:27:51.705 How can I help? 00:27:52.405 --> 00:27:53.675 You can count on me. 00:27:54.865 --> 00:27:55.625 I'm here. 00:27:55.904 --> 00:27:58.715 As opposed to let me, let me be out in front of everything. 00:27:58.725 --> 00:28:01.554 Let me still be the mouthpiece for everything. 00:28:01.795 --> 00:28:03.564 No, it's not time for that anymore. 00:28:04.065 --> 00:28:14.115 And so part of the challenge, I think, is for those of us who are over sixty, to stop being ego invested in our work or who we are. 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:23.860 But to be more invested in our role as making sure the next generations have what they need in order to create a world that we're not going to be part of. 00:28:26.939 --> 00:28:30.649 Zannat Reza: At the end of every episode, we ask all of our guests the same question. 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:37.749 If you could wave a magic wand and make one radical but realistic change to improve our society's well being, what would it be? 00:28:37.850 --> 00:28:40.469 We'll hear from Eunice first, and then Akaya. 00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:50.760 Eunice Lin Nichols: There are so many things I would wish, but okay, if I could do one, the broadest category is, I would say, I would want to make cogeneration the norm in society, our default position. 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:57.749 We have spent so much time, for the sake of efficiency, pulling the generations apart. 00:28:58.430 --> 00:29:04.560 And if I could wave a wand, I would fast forward us to the point where we've put those pieces back together. 00:29:05.565 --> 00:29:06.545 Akaya Windwood: I love that question. 00:29:06.765 --> 00:29:18.195 I would take at least half of the military budget that is used to kill people and use those resources to help people live. 00:29:18.375 --> 00:29:20.465 In the US that's a huge sum of money. 00:29:20.765 --> 00:29:27.045 Imagine if we invested in our schools and we invested in the wellbeing of our older people. 00:29:27.235 --> 00:29:31.755 And we had education for everybody who wanted it for free. 00:29:31.885 --> 00:29:36.155 And healthcare were free and we had universal basic income. 00:29:36.225 --> 00:29:39.145 And these are all things that would absolutely be possible. 00:29:39.185 --> 00:29:41.865 Small thing, perhaps, but, no, it's not a small thing. 00:29:41.885 --> 00:29:45.105 If I could wave my, my wand, it would start there. 00:29:45.215 --> 00:29:46.635 And that would be year one. 00:29:46.815 --> 00:29:50.175 Year two would be having it again. 00:29:50.425 --> 00:30:03.730 Year three, we would slowly reprioritize our collective intelligence and commitment to one another toward creating the conditions for life. 00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:07.050 Both for humans and the rest of all life on the planet. 00:30:08.490 --> 00:30:17.290 Zannat Reza: A big thank you to Eunice Lin Nichols and Akaya Windwood for sharing why it's important for generations to work together and the ways in which they can create a better future. 00:30:17.340 --> 00:30:19.270 Thanks for joining us for this episode. 00:30:19.765 --> 00:30:23.695 To learn more and for transcripts, go to TheFutureAge.ca. 00:30:24.015 --> 00:30:27.885 Listen to new episodes by following us wherever you get your podcasts. 00:30:28.065 --> 00:30:35.205 And if you're liking our podcasts, leave a review on Apple or Spotify and be sure to share it with your friends, family, and colleagues. 00:30:35.615 --> 00:30:45.785 The Future Age is brought to you by SE Health, a not-for-profit social enterprise that provides the best care inspires innovation and impacts how people live and age at home.