WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.770 --> 00:00:01.290 Hey, it's Mark. 00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:06.370 This is a podcast for coaches and I'm doing a thing now where 00:00:06.380 --> 00:00:10.985 in order to, Make the experience of the podcast a little richer. 00:00:10.985 --> 00:00:13.805 I'm just gonna have my friends come on occasionally and we just chat. 00:00:14.015 --> 00:00:14.435 Oh, fun. 00:00:15.335 --> 00:00:16.115 That's what this is. 00:00:16.115 --> 00:00:17.645 This is gonna be tough for you and I to chat. 00:00:17.765 --> 00:00:18.095 Oof. 00:00:18.155 --> 00:00:20.015 Yeah, we, we, we barely ever do. 00:00:21.485 --> 00:00:24.425 So everybody, this is Jesse Mecom, my very good friend. 00:00:24.455 --> 00:00:27.155 Friend since 2008. 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:28.235 Eight, yeah. 00:00:29.015 --> 00:00:29.975 That's getting up there. 00:00:29.975 --> 00:00:29.976 Yeah. 00:00:30.065 --> 00:00:31.715 A lot of the audience already knows you, I think. 00:00:31.895 --> 00:00:32.075 Oh. 00:00:32.490 --> 00:00:33.900 Some of them listen to beginning balance. 00:00:34.250 --> 00:00:37.170 Jesse and I have a podcast together called beginning balance. 00:00:37.190 --> 00:00:42.790 We started it in 2021 Okay, at which time I just hefted it onto my shoulders 00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:45.700 and I've been carrying it ever since you're you've carried that podcast 00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:50.080 Yeah, yeah, I've told this audience that that podcast is the most consistent 00:00:50.090 --> 00:00:54.050 thing I've ever done That's pretty awesome because I'm not in charge of it. 00:00:54.230 --> 00:00:57.055 Yeah And acknowledging that is a win. 00:00:57.205 --> 00:00:58.035 It is such a win. 00:00:58.485 --> 00:01:00.535 I'm trying to figure out how to work that into other areas of my life. 00:01:00.795 --> 00:01:04.105 Jesse is the founder of a company called YNAB, which 00:01:04.115 --> 00:01:05.585 used to mean you need a budget. 00:01:05.605 --> 00:01:06.855 Now it means you're not a budget. 00:01:08.715 --> 00:01:10.555 Don't relegate yourself to such things. 00:01:10.575 --> 00:01:11.505 You are not a budget. 00:01:11.515 --> 00:01:16.925 You are so much more spend, save and give joyfully without guilt or second guessing. 00:01:17.035 --> 00:01:18.625 That's I've been saying that a lot. 00:01:18.635 --> 00:01:19.665 Oh, that's so good. 00:01:19.685 --> 00:01:19.925 Yeah. 00:01:19.945 --> 00:01:21.645 I got oohs and ahs at a thing. 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:23.070 It was fun. 00:01:23.150 --> 00:01:23.430 Yeah. 00:01:24.260 --> 00:01:26.690 Oh, you know what I should say on this recording to this audience, 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:31.550 if anyone appreciates the work I do today, they need to thank you because 00:01:31.550 --> 00:01:36.480 in 2013, when I was limping away from my first attempt at self employment. 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:38.619 That was, that was pretty good though. 00:01:38.630 --> 00:01:39.730 Like it wasn't limping. 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:40.150 No. 00:01:40.995 --> 00:01:43.315 I mean, what I can tell you is that I had a lot of personal debt 00:01:43.335 --> 00:01:44.885 and I owed the IRS a lot of money. 00:01:45.465 --> 00:01:46.475 I'll, we'll stand by the limb. 00:01:50.044 --> 00:01:52.245 It at least felt like a twisted ankle. 00:01:52.345 --> 00:01:53.215 I was like, yeah, okay. 00:01:53.235 --> 00:01:53.635 I'll give it to you. 00:01:54.065 --> 00:01:55.494 I may not be very good at this. 00:01:55.494 --> 00:02:02.215 After all, you gave me a job as the YNAB staff writer, about a year after 00:02:03.265 --> 00:02:05.875 starting as the staff writer, I came to you and said, I need to make more money. 00:02:05.875 --> 00:02:06.975 I want to make more money. 00:02:07.885 --> 00:02:10.105 Which I only knew because of your software. 00:02:10.625 --> 00:02:11.215 Yes. 00:02:11.275 --> 00:02:13.115 You were on a mission during that year. 00:02:13.125 --> 00:02:13.875 I was on a mission. 00:02:14.085 --> 00:02:14.955 That was like a Mark 2. 00:02:15.165 --> 00:02:16.324 0 to 3. 00:02:16.324 --> 00:02:16.544 0 to 4. 00:02:16.544 --> 00:02:17.234 0. 00:02:18.385 --> 00:02:19.255 , we made some changes. 00:02:19.305 --> 00:02:21.315 Kate was very patient in the process. 00:02:21.585 --> 00:02:23.715 There were comments on the YNAB blog, which is where I would 00:02:23.715 --> 00:02:26.865 write every day where people would say, I feel bad for Mark's wife. 00:02:27.425 --> 00:02:28.955 You were just, you were just in it. 00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:33.145 I was, it was such good writing, , material to have you just like 00:02:33.145 --> 00:02:34.765 blogging your personal transformation. 00:02:34.765 --> 00:02:34.855 Yeah. 00:02:35.010 --> 00:02:39.475 I was basically live blogging my, it was reality TV . It's reality tv. 00:02:40.225 --> 00:02:43.135 So anyway, anybody who appreciates what I'm doing now should thank Jesse 00:02:43.140 --> 00:02:47.965 because you gave me the softest possible landing from my self-employment. 00:02:48.790 --> 00:02:51.970 You'd built, I mean, you had started building a coaching business inside YNAB. 00:02:52.160 --> 00:02:53.600 You start, you were like, yeah, that's the thing. 00:02:53.600 --> 00:02:55.390 I said, I want to make some more money. 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:58.240 And I said, I think we could do this coaching thing. 00:02:58.249 --> 00:03:00.940 You were very supportive of it, which is amazing. 00:03:00.940 --> 00:03:05.750 I think within six months, the coaching practice inside YNAB was paying for itself 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:08.050 because it was paying more than I cost. 00:03:09.500 --> 00:03:12.430 And, , but then you realize that you're not a coaching company. 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:12.770 Yeah. 00:03:13.210 --> 00:03:18.800 It's just, it was a, we were just, you could sniff the, , The focus fade. 00:03:18.810 --> 00:03:20.210 You know, you just, it just wasn't right. 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:20.600 Yeah. 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:21.130 Wasn't right. 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:21.830 You were right. 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:22.790 And you were right to say that. 00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:26.570 But then again, you gave me another very soft landing out of your 00:03:26.570 --> 00:03:31.990 company back into self employment and anybody who's felt served by 00:03:32.010 --> 00:03:33.810 me in the last 10 years, 10 years. 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:35.160 That's amazing. 00:03:35.250 --> 00:03:35.530 Yeah. 00:03:35.620 --> 00:03:37.190 So that's the most consistent thing you've done. 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:38.750 I mean, you, yeah. 00:03:39.100 --> 00:03:44.800 And it's, well, what's good for you is you get to kind of It's, it feels 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:47.600 almost new every day in the sense of like you get to do your favorite thing, 00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:50.760 which is figuring out why people think the way they do what they're doing. 00:03:51.410 --> 00:03:53.750 You get to do it in a space that I think you enjoy, which is kind of 00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:55.560 the money business intersection. 00:03:56.180 --> 00:03:59.290 It just, I think it checks a lot of boxes and migrating toward now. 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:01.530 Oh, let's not forget. 00:04:01.540 --> 00:04:03.670 You get to set your own schedule and be an entrepreneur. 00:04:03.670 --> 00:04:08.105 I forgot those two things that are really important from Tik TOK. 00:04:11.265 --> 00:04:11.635 Yeah. 00:04:12.055 --> 00:04:14.885 I hate, I hate, I hate when people talk about entrepreneurs, 00:04:14.915 --> 00:04:16.085 like it's some romantic thing. 00:04:16.095 --> 00:04:16.805 Oh, I refuse. 00:04:16.825 --> 00:04:19.455 When people are, when people tell me, Oh, you're entrepreneurial. 00:04:19.455 --> 00:04:20.515 I always say, no, I'm not. 00:04:20.585 --> 00:04:21.215 Don't say that. 00:04:21.225 --> 00:04:21.525 Yeah. 00:04:21.795 --> 00:04:22.365 I own a business. 00:04:22.375 --> 00:04:23.005 Which is funny. 00:04:23.075 --> 00:04:24.325 A person listening to this would be like, why? 00:04:24.325 --> 00:04:25.245 What's your beef with that? 00:04:25.285 --> 00:04:25.695 I don't know. 00:04:25.695 --> 00:04:27.015 It's, it's, it's yeah. 00:04:27.025 --> 00:04:28.745 First of me, it's too much of a meme. 00:04:29.265 --> 00:04:29.545 Yeah. 00:04:29.615 --> 00:04:30.865 It's way too much of a meme. 00:04:31.175 --> 00:04:35.015 And also I actually, for me, the word entrepreneur means something specific. 00:04:35.025 --> 00:04:39.165 An entrepreneur takes capital and puts it at risk in hope of creating greater value. 00:04:39.835 --> 00:04:42.575 I don't do that for the most, I don't really do that. 00:04:42.595 --> 00:04:47.245 What I do is I operate as a self employed person, a technician, and I 00:04:47.245 --> 00:04:48.785 get paid well for being a technician. 00:04:48.955 --> 00:04:51.585 I'm in that sense, highly risk averse. 00:04:52.505 --> 00:04:56.865 I'm not going to borrow a million dollars and go do something or, or that, or am I? 00:04:57.365 --> 00:04:58.635 I would call that. 00:04:59.370 --> 00:04:59.960 Entrepreneurship. 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:00.310 Yeah. 00:05:00.580 --> 00:05:01.820 I'm a self employed technician. 00:05:01.830 --> 00:05:02.690 Even as a coach. 00:05:02.710 --> 00:05:03.900 I'm a self employed technician. 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:04.190 Yeah. 00:05:04.280 --> 00:05:05.820 Cause it's just another kind of technical work. 00:05:06.670 --> 00:05:10.620 So anyway, you've been very supportive and , it's, yeah, it's been, it's 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:15.380 been fantastic, but I brought you on the show today because, 00:05:15.390 --> 00:05:20.150 You run a company with how many employees were one, one 70, maybe one 70. 00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:27.370 I want you to free associate about the idea of coaching and how you, you would 00:05:27.380 --> 00:05:29.160 or wouldn't use it in your company. 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:32.360 I'm not saying about coaching, like, Oh, a manager coaches, a team member. 00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:32.400 Right. 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:32.660 Right. 00:05:33.015 --> 00:05:33.615 That's great. 00:05:33.675 --> 00:05:34.015 Okay. 00:05:34.345 --> 00:05:35.405 We could talk about that. 00:05:35.585 --> 00:05:38.945 I'm actually curious to get your perspective because so many people in my 00:05:38.945 --> 00:05:44.915 audience, I think would love, for example, to say, why NAB hired me to coach? 00:05:45.145 --> 00:05:51.475 Oh, I got you a team member or to coach a division, a team or something. 00:05:51.485 --> 00:05:55.845 And I just want you to kind of free associate about why, why not, in what 00:05:55.845 --> 00:05:59.685 circumstances, how you think about it as as the owner of the company, 00:05:59.785 --> 00:06:01.965 if at all higher level coaching. 00:06:02.570 --> 00:06:06.050 The higher the level, the more the coaching is just like, yeah, it's 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:10.030 irresponsible for you not to be coached by someone external to the organization. 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:10.330 Really? 00:06:10.330 --> 00:06:10.630 Okay. 00:06:10.630 --> 00:06:11.540 Say more about this. 00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:15.470 , Todd, , has a coach Todd is the CEO of YNM. 00:06:15.520 --> 00:06:15.750 Yep. 00:06:15.880 --> 00:06:17.240 Todd has a coach now. 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:19.620 He has a coach meets with her. 00:06:20.020 --> 00:06:22.630 I don't know how often, but, , she's external. 00:06:22.630 --> 00:06:23.870 I've never spoken with her. 00:06:24.190 --> 00:06:25.620 She has Todd's back. 00:06:26.250 --> 00:06:27.760 She couldn't give a rip about me. 00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:30.670 I don't think, and that's, I'm saying that in a very positive way. 00:06:30.700 --> 00:06:30.970 Yeah. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:32.910 She has Todd's back like that. 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:39.480 Her job is to make Todd the best he can be, how did Todd End up in a 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.060 coaching relationship with his coach. 00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:47.000 He was referred by, I think the then CEO of help scout, , service we use similar 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:49.110 software company size, that kind of thing. 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:53.520 They had a relationship just like, Hey, we're both, you know, leaders in 00:06:53.690 --> 00:06:55.890 similar size oriented software companies. 00:06:56.390 --> 00:07:02.220 And I think it was when I was pitching him the idea of being CEO he might've 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:05.540 gone to Nick and who was a CEO. 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:07.350 And I've been like, so I'm, I want to get some. 00:07:07.425 --> 00:07:09.175 Instruction. 00:07:09.635 --> 00:07:10.545 I want to get some coaching. 00:07:10.545 --> 00:07:12.505 And then Nick said, Oh, I recommend these guys. 00:07:12.505 --> 00:07:15.325 And I honestly couldn't tell you the name. 00:07:15.945 --> 00:07:19.195 It's just, I think like kind of a small little coaching operation. 00:07:19.295 --> 00:07:21.775 Oh, it's like it's a firm, a firm, a few people. 00:07:21.775 --> 00:07:22.125 I don't know. 00:07:22.155 --> 00:07:23.475 I really don't know the size. 00:07:23.795 --> 00:07:24.495 It doesn't matter. 00:07:24.495 --> 00:07:26.235 Cause he just works with one woman there. 00:07:27.025 --> 00:07:28.515 So, okay. 00:07:28.515 --> 00:07:29.595 A referral from a friend. 00:07:30.035 --> 00:07:31.995 Do you have any sense of the structure? 00:07:34.170 --> 00:07:39.790 Some regular phone call Okay, yeah But you don't know whether it's weekly monthly. 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:43.780 I don't yeah, that's okay It doesn't that doesn't really matter so much But you 00:07:43.820 --> 00:07:47.760 from what you know of it todd that's the setting in which todd can say anything. 00:07:47.880 --> 00:07:52.610 Yeah get support around Do you think do you do you know 00:07:52.610 --> 00:07:56.440 whether it's ceo I think it is. 00:07:56.620 --> 00:07:56.830 Yeah. 00:07:56.980 --> 00:08:00.430 Yeah Ynab pays the bill. 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:02.660 Yeah How do you feel about that? 00:08:02.790 --> 00:08:03.100 Great. 00:08:03.320 --> 00:08:04.920 Did you ever feel any resistance to it? 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:05.190 No. 00:08:06.960 --> 00:08:11.060 He said if you weren't willing to pay for coaching for the 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:12.670 CEO, I wouldn't take the job. 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:15.390 So this was in the transition to CEO. 00:08:15.390 --> 00:08:15.550 Yeah. 00:08:15.550 --> 00:08:17.730 I was like, well, if I do this, I want coaching. 00:08:17.730 --> 00:08:18.630 It's like, absolutely. 00:08:18.670 --> 00:08:19.140 Oh, good. 00:08:19.140 --> 00:08:22.740 And he's just like, if you don't do this, like Tim, Tim, that was a signal of I 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:24.960 don't want to put words in his mouth, but he said something to that effect. 00:08:25.320 --> 00:08:26.940 And it was just like, that would be a signal to that. 00:08:26.940 --> 00:08:30.340 You don't think this is that valuable position, you know? 00:08:30.830 --> 00:08:32.530 And I was just like, no, yeah, do it. 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:36.240 We, you know, YNAB has a training and development budget for 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.430 every team member for Todd. 00:08:37.430 --> 00:08:40.220 It's obviously larger than it is for someone that just started, , cause 00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:41.480 we're trying to develop people. 00:08:41.670 --> 00:08:43.520 What are some ways that people use the training and 00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:45.280 development budget conferences? 00:08:45.290 --> 00:08:48.350 A lot of the time, especially if they can all go to the same conference or 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:50.530 a lot of them go, and then you kind of have a little bit of a twofer. 00:08:50.530 --> 00:08:52.110 It's like we get to have a team meetup. 00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:53.120 We're all remote, right? 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:54.450 So team meetup bonding. 00:08:55.060 --> 00:08:57.770 And you get to go, you know, learn up your game. 00:08:58.370 --> 00:09:00.680 Some of them have ended up speaking at those conferences. 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.250 Like that's, that's a sign of development, right? 00:09:03.310 --> 00:09:03.560 Yep. 00:09:05.110 --> 00:09:08.850 Yeah, our support team, they've gone to a conference, I think pretty regularly where 00:09:08.850 --> 00:09:10.630 they've, that's kind of leveled them up. 00:09:10.630 --> 00:09:13.750 Some lots of books and things like that. 00:09:14.930 --> 00:09:19.160 I don't think there are formal coaching relationships 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:21.170 except at the exec team level. 00:09:22.355 --> 00:09:23.725 If there are I'm unaware of them. 00:09:24.475 --> 00:09:27.975 How long ago did you establish a training and development budget? 00:09:28.185 --> 00:09:29.805 I don't I don't know that we've ever talked about it. 00:09:30.965 --> 00:09:34.625 Gosh, maybe 2015 It's eight years ago nine years ago. 00:09:34.655 --> 00:09:35.785 Do you have any memory of what? 00:09:36.555 --> 00:09:37.465 Was the catalyst? 00:09:37.805 --> 00:09:42.265 Yeah, probably someone being like hey if I buy a book for My job like does 00:09:42.265 --> 00:09:46.545 wine i'm cover it and we would just be like, oh that seems reasonable But 00:09:46.545 --> 00:09:50.950 then it's obviously like well we can't Just, you know, cover everything. 00:09:52.310 --> 00:09:53.580 So yeah, I think that's where we carved it out. 00:09:53.780 --> 00:09:55.460 Chance would be able to give you all the details on that 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.080 because that's an ops thing. 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:58.810 So he, he's over that. 00:09:59.530 --> 00:10:03.530 Does chance, do you and chance is the, what is chances title? 00:10:04.170 --> 00:10:08.220 Head of operations, head of operations, which is essentially people. 00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:14.420 Do you and chance have conversations about The size or an intended use of 00:10:14.420 --> 00:10:15.530 the training and development budget. 00:10:16.350 --> 00:10:17.290 Todd and Chance do. 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:18.900 Todd, of course, Todd's CEO. 00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:24.090 And do you, as the person who ultimately is signing checks, well, first of 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:25.010 all, do you think of it that way? 00:10:25.060 --> 00:10:25.330 No. 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:27.320 Todd thinks, you think of Todd doing that? 00:10:27.330 --> 00:10:28.030 Yeah, he signs the checks. 00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:28.790 Good job. 00:10:28.790 --> 00:10:29.730 Good job being a leader. 00:10:29.950 --> 00:10:30.170 Yeah. 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.170 Because I still totally think of it being like, well, Jesse's, it's Jesse's money. 00:10:33.330 --> 00:10:34.330 I, it is my money. 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:35.700 I and Taylor's. 00:10:35.770 --> 00:10:40.160 I've on my Colby index, I found out that I am very happy to have 00:10:40.160 --> 00:10:41.280 other people do things for me. 00:10:42.185 --> 00:10:43.505 Yeah, I can attest to that. 00:10:44.205 --> 00:10:49.265 So Todd and Chance talk about how big the training development budget is 00:10:49.265 --> 00:10:52.275 and should be and what it should do. 00:10:52.405 --> 00:10:52.665 Yeah. 00:10:52.855 --> 00:10:52.975 Yeah. 00:10:52.975 --> 00:10:53.775 You have some guidelines. 00:10:53.775 --> 00:10:56.385 Hey, we, we mean it for it to be used for things like this. 00:10:56.625 --> 00:11:01.475 Someone wants to like, I don't know, some QA specialists is like, I want 00:11:01.475 --> 00:11:04.445 to up my game on writing this kind of code or this, this, you know, whatever. 00:11:04.445 --> 00:11:06.575 And it's just like, Oh yeah, go take that course, do that thing. 00:11:07.765 --> 00:11:10.705 So you, you have to let them decide. 00:11:11.015 --> 00:11:14.765 , I always like to push decisions down as local as you can get them, you know? 00:11:14.875 --> 00:11:18.795 So, but then there have been times where we've decreed things like in 00:11:18.795 --> 00:11:24.875 2013 or 14, we decreed that we would use , Gino Wickman's traction, which is 00:11:24.885 --> 00:11:27.965 in effect coaching via a book, right? 00:11:28.935 --> 00:11:30.915 And We just decreed it. 00:11:31.335 --> 00:11:33.825 But you never worked with a traction implementer, for example. 00:11:33.825 --> 00:11:34.665 I tried once. 00:11:35.325 --> 00:11:38.065 He gave me his pitch and I was like, that is not a cultural fit. 00:11:38.335 --> 00:11:39.365 Like this would not fly. 00:11:39.375 --> 00:11:40.625 Oh, I think I was in the room. 00:11:40.665 --> 00:11:41.105 Yeah. 00:11:41.165 --> 00:11:41.395 Yeah. 00:11:41.395 --> 00:11:42.665 He just, the vibe wasn't right. 00:11:42.715 --> 00:11:43.225 It wasn't. 00:11:43.275 --> 00:11:43.505 Yeah. 00:11:43.675 --> 00:11:45.845 Like obviously your coach has to, you got to have a vibe. 00:11:45.845 --> 00:11:46.715 It's like a therapist. 00:11:47.215 --> 00:11:47.965 Just as important. 00:11:47.995 --> 00:11:48.875 You got to find the right one. 00:11:49.035 --> 00:11:49.355 Yep. 00:11:49.825 --> 00:11:54.075 So we, we rolled it and I do think if I would have found the right person, 00:11:54.235 --> 00:11:56.995 it would have been so much better to have an external implementer. 00:11:57.370 --> 00:11:59.530 So it's not Jesse with some new harebrained idea because he 00:11:59.530 --> 00:12:03.130 happened to read a book, you know Which is a thing that happens. 00:12:03.130 --> 00:12:06.560 Yeah, it's I I didn't read a read books for a year just to prove a point to 00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:10.990 the execs And I stuck to it to be clear because the exact execs kept coming 00:12:10.990 --> 00:12:15.240 to you and saying oh great Just chill out with the books You guys got to 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:22.570 hear this this is so amazing okay, so You're happy to see this money being 00:12:22.570 --> 00:12:24.090 spent on training and development. 00:12:24.180 --> 00:12:24.490 Yeah. 00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:26.820 Do you have any feedback from Todd about how it's helped? 00:12:26.910 --> 00:12:27.610 I actually don't. 00:12:27.650 --> 00:12:28.890 I guess I could, I could ask Todd. 00:12:28.890 --> 00:12:29.740 I have access to Todd. 00:12:29.780 --> 00:12:30.730 Yeah, I should ask him. 00:12:30.750 --> 00:12:33.090 Just be like, so how's, how's the, like, what have you gotten from it? 00:12:33.450 --> 00:12:35.050 I mean, Todd is a Zen teacher. 00:12:35.050 --> 00:12:37.600 , literally, he is a Zen teacher. 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:43.060 So he's very used to having someone, guide him. 00:12:43.515 --> 00:12:44.185 We'll say that. 00:12:44.675 --> 00:12:48.485 And I think he sees it as valuable when he was a principal of a school, when he was 00:12:48.485 --> 00:12:52.645 assistant superintendent,, he regularly talks about this mentor of his and I 00:12:52.645 --> 00:12:57.175 cannot remember his name, but he quotes him at least once in every quarterly 00:12:57.175 --> 00:13:00.455 meeting we have where he's just like, you know, so and so said, and it's this, 00:13:00.515 --> 00:13:02.645 it's this mentor of his very meaningful. 00:13:02.645 --> 00:13:06.105 Now that wasn't a formal coaching relationship, but you can see that Todd 00:13:06.115 --> 00:13:09.215 really appreciates guidance from a mentor. 00:13:09.665 --> 00:13:11.805 from a wise person that has his back. 00:13:13.215 --> 00:13:16.355 So maybe he's just wired to kind of, kind of want it. 00:13:16.855 --> 00:13:22.545 I've, I tried harder with our head of marketing to have her get some 00:13:22.545 --> 00:13:25.625 coaching and it took a couple of years. 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.320 For it to finally, finally find someone where she's like, 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.900 Oh yeah, this is clicking. 00:13:29.900 --> 00:13:30.470 I like this. 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:33.410 Was she quote unquote dating in the meantime? 00:13:33.800 --> 00:13:35.270 Yeah, in a sense, but off and on. 00:13:35.270 --> 00:13:36.430 Cause it's like, Hey, are you going to do this? 00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:37.830 Oh yeah, I need to. 00:13:38.790 --> 00:13:41.490 So what I'm asking is, did she meet with coaches and then be 00:13:41.490 --> 00:13:42.500 like, ah, that's not a fit. 00:13:42.510 --> 00:13:44.550 That's not, yeah, I think she tried a Vistage meeting 00:13:44.550 --> 00:13:46.690 once, which is peer coaching. 00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:47.370 Oh, that's hilarious. 00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:49.450 I, I would not imagine Lindsay liking it. 00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:54.510 Yeah, it didn't go well, you know, Fresno of all places, her energy. 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:56.650 She's probably laughing all the time. 00:13:57.100 --> 00:13:58.560 She's like, that was not funny. 00:13:58.560 --> 00:13:59.090 I love that. 00:13:59.110 --> 00:13:59.750 She's a great time. 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:01.540 So she, yeah. 00:14:01.540 --> 00:14:04.360 So I think she finally found someone that just, I think it's an 00:14:04.370 --> 00:14:09.070 informal and they've just, they agreed like, yeah, I'll help you out 00:14:09.350 --> 00:14:11.620 and we'll, we'll do this regularly. 00:14:12.690 --> 00:14:14.530 And she's liking it. 00:14:15.380 --> 00:14:19.380 Taylor joined a Vistage for a while and got some mileage out of that. 00:14:20.170 --> 00:14:25.020 Taylor's part owner in YNAB and our tech, technical fellow. 00:14:25.130 --> 00:14:26.560 Now he used to be head of technology. 00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:27.720 He's a technical fellow. 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.990 And that is his real title. 00:14:31.540 --> 00:14:31.650 Yeah. 00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:35.250 He gets to dig deep on things that are kind of cutting edge and figure 00:14:35.250 --> 00:14:37.670 out how YNAB will be affected slash. 00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:39.280 So he was in Vistage. 00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:42.330 He was in Vistage for a few years and then bowed out just what didn't feel 00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:43.600 like he was getting value out of it. 00:14:44.110 --> 00:14:46.690 And now he has joined an EO group. 00:14:47.985 --> 00:14:51.235 And he's really liking that it's pure, it's small. 00:14:51.535 --> 00:14:52.785 It's very strict. 00:14:54.605 --> 00:14:57.255 Like if you're late, you owe the money. 00:14:57.795 --> 00:15:00.345 Like there's, there's some things just like, you need to respect our time. 00:15:00.345 --> 00:15:04.095 If your phone goes off, like mine did when we were recording, that's a problem. 00:15:04.395 --> 00:15:10.245 If you miss a meeting, one meeting next one, you're out and that kind of thing. 00:15:10.245 --> 00:15:13.440 Like it's serious, but they're serious because they're, They 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.920 want the investment to pay. 00:15:15.930 --> 00:15:18.810 So he's been using EO for members of the audience who don't know 00:15:18.810 --> 00:15:23.500 what EO or EO are pretty similar organizations or similar intent. 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:23.830 Yeah. 00:15:24.010 --> 00:15:25.300 I call them CEO clubs. 00:15:25.380 --> 00:15:25.670 Yeah. 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:26.310 Yeah. 00:15:26.380 --> 00:15:28.460 Taylor's not a CEO, but it's, it's a place where. 00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:32.180 Key, key people in organizations can go. 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.520 And in our world, we would call it masterminding. 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:34.890 Yeah. 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:36.980 Collaborating. 00:15:37.020 --> 00:15:37.170 Yeah. 00:15:37.170 --> 00:15:40.700 It's probably more formal than what people call masterminds or how I've 00:15:40.710 --> 00:15:43.190 heard them because people are like, Oh, I'm in a couple of masterminds. 00:15:43.640 --> 00:15:45.610 And I'd be like,, how can you have the time to do that? 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:46.100 You know? 00:15:46.140 --> 00:15:46.410 Yeah. 00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.280 But it's cause it might mean like a once a month call or something. 00:15:50.030 --> 00:15:51.330 What does Vistage cost? 00:15:53.825 --> 00:15:54.675 A couple thousand a month? 00:15:54.895 --> 00:15:55.805 Yeah, it kept going up. 00:15:56.625 --> 00:15:58.815 It might be 2, 500 a month or something. 00:15:58.875 --> 00:15:59.805 Is EO comparable? 00:16:00.525 --> 00:16:01.675 I don't know on EO. 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:02.850 Yeah. 00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:06.460 Vistage also gives you, you're the chair of the Vistage group 00:16:06.460 --> 00:16:11.180 in your area also meets with you for a couple hours once a month. 00:16:11.190 --> 00:16:13.050 So you do get coaching from the chair. 00:16:13.370 --> 00:16:14.290 You still do that? 00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:15.300 No, I don't anymore. 00:16:15.300 --> 00:16:18.240 I I think I was done with Vistage a year and a half ago. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.160 Oh, you don't do Vistage? 00:16:19.210 --> 00:16:19.510 I don't. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:20.530 I didn't know you stopped. 00:16:20.710 --> 00:16:20.980 Yeah. 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:24.620 I, so this, the Vistage format is you meet all day, once a month. 00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:26.950 First half of the day is a speaker. 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.000 And then the second half of the day you're at processing issues, 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.570 talking through things always depends on your group, you know, why did 00:16:34.570 --> 00:16:36.140 you, you were in that for years? 00:16:36.350 --> 00:16:36.660 Yes. 00:16:36.660 --> 00:16:39.040 And I think I was in that for nine, nine years. 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:40.800 Why did you stop? 00:16:41.670 --> 00:16:44.515 I felt like I had gotten what I needed out of it. 00:16:44.575 --> 00:16:45.995 And it really. 00:16:46.410 --> 00:16:47.990 change when I was no longer CEO. 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.450 Cause then I just was like a lot of that, that you're learning from 00:16:52.450 --> 00:16:55.800 the speakers or whatever is like how to do this, how to do that. 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.870 And it's just like, I'm not, I'm not boots on the ground anymore doing that. 00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:00.480 You know? 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:04.820 My chair, Dwayne, he still invites me to stuff. 00:17:04.820 --> 00:17:07.590 I, Hey, maybe you'd like the speaker, you know, maybe just 00:17:07.600 --> 00:17:08.780 pop in, listen to the speaker. 00:17:10.320 --> 00:17:12.620 And it does give you a little bit of whipsaw sometimes, sometimes. 00:17:13.060 --> 00:17:16.690 This speaker says you should, you know, do this, this speaker says you should 00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:19.530 do this and all of them are great, super polished presentations and you're 00:17:19.530 --> 00:17:21.750 like, Oh my gosh, content overload. 00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:25.690 Yeah, it is a little bit of content overload in companies that do Vistage the 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:30.580 staff on that in those companies regularly caught day after Vistage, meaning like 00:17:30.580 --> 00:17:33.090 what's, what's coming down a little bit like day after Jesse finished a book. 00:17:33.110 --> 00:17:33.420 Yeah. 00:17:34.450 --> 00:17:35.660 So you got to be careful with that. 00:17:35.730 --> 00:17:41.930 You know man, a great speaker that spoke that I remembered was his name's Cujo. 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:43.490 That's his call sign, not his name. 00:17:43.730 --> 00:17:46.980 He was a fighter pilot,, high functioning fighter pilot. 00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:51.910 And he spoke for three hours about the power of briefing and debriefing. 00:17:52.290 --> 00:17:53.270 It was so good. 00:17:53.270 --> 00:17:54.340 It was so good. 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:59.260 So you'll get these, I mean, some of those speaking engagements that I went to 00:17:59.290 --> 00:18:01.420 Edgar Parker spoke about true alignment. 00:18:01.790 --> 00:18:04.600 His book is not good to read. 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:09.630 It's so dry, but his speaking, how, your core values express your brand 00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:13.330 and that expresses to your customers, that changed YNAB trajectory. 00:18:13.620 --> 00:18:16.960 Like that helped us, helped us realize we were much more like an 00:18:17.030 --> 00:18:21.500 Oprah Winfrey vibe than we were a personal finance management. 00:18:21.620 --> 00:18:23.430 You know, like we started learning, , Oh, we're, we're 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:25.060 helping people self actualize. 00:18:25.080 --> 00:18:26.910 We aren't helping them manage money. 00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:29.060 It was a breakthrough for us. 00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:31.610 So I'm very grateful. 00:18:31.610 --> 00:18:35.490 I did all those a lot of people in my audience would 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:37.280 want to be those vista speakers. 00:18:37.290 --> 00:18:37.880 Yes. 00:18:38.610 --> 00:18:39.050 Yes. 00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:39.940 What's that like? 00:18:40.690 --> 00:18:42.670 You need to get endorsed. 00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:43.780 You need to get approved. 00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:46.570 You need to buy Vistage the company. 00:18:47.170 --> 00:18:47.510 Yeah. 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.680 But do you go through Vistage the company? 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:50.480 Yeah. 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.750 You would need to contact chairs. 00:18:52.770 --> 00:18:54.590 And I think chairs actually. 00:18:54.955 --> 00:18:57.505 They protect chairs quite a bit from solicitation. 00:18:57.595 --> 00:18:57.805 Yeah. 00:18:57.805 --> 00:18:58.355 Essentially. 00:18:58.645 --> 00:19:01.855 I remember, Oh, I don't know how many years, five, six, seven years ago, 00:19:01.855 --> 00:19:05.035 Dwayne reached out to me, the chair of your Vistage Group, fantastic guy. 00:19:05.635 --> 00:19:07.185 And he said,, let's work together. 00:19:07.235 --> 00:19:08.885 I'll help you prepare your presentation. 00:19:08.885 --> 00:19:10.045 I want you to be on the circuit. 00:19:10.045 --> 00:19:11.295 I think you have a lot of value to add. 00:19:11.575 --> 00:19:13.755 It wasn't a fit for my business model. 00:19:13.925 --> 00:19:14.105 Yeah. 00:19:14.155 --> 00:19:16.695 That kind of marketing wasn't really going to serve me now. 00:19:16.695 --> 00:19:19.780 Interestingly, as I'm moving more and more into coaching, I'm starting to As it's 00:19:19.780 --> 00:19:22.790 become a bigger part of my life It would probably make more sense for me to look 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:28.070 back at the potential there but People didn't solicit in their presentations. 00:19:28.310 --> 00:19:29.030 No, you are not. 00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:30.030 You're not allowed to. 00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:30.390 Yeah. 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:35.270 You need to add value from your presentation requiring no sale, you know, 00:19:35.310 --> 00:19:39.630 but there are a lot of speakers that were, that is their, their sole lead gen. 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:40.850 I would have to be. 00:19:40.910 --> 00:19:41.140 Yeah. 00:19:41.190 --> 00:19:44.920 And they've done a thousand of them, you know, it takes a special kind of person 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.440 that enjoys the road warrior thing. 00:19:46.510 --> 00:19:50.090 So these chairs will come together and be like, Hey, listen, I've got 00:19:50.360 --> 00:19:52.820 six vista groups in salt Lake city. 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:53.810 And we can do it. 00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:54.270 Boom, boom, boom. 00:19:54.310 --> 00:19:56.210 And then the speaker's like, okay, you have my attention. 00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:57.730 Cause they don't have to do the back and forth as much. 00:19:58.050 --> 00:20:01.000 So there's this interesting little economy market forms. 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:07.410 Vistage pays you, I mean, a pittance for the speaking, I think maybe 500 bucks. 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:09.100 So it probably doesn't even cover your travel. 00:20:09.130 --> 00:20:10.220 Well, they'll cover your travel. 00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:10.640 Oh, they will. 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:11.020 Yeah. 00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:13.420 But it is not, it is not a moneymaker. 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:17.230 No, you know so Vistage knows that it's lead gen. 00:20:17.410 --> 00:20:17.750 Yes. 00:20:17.770 --> 00:20:20.640 They just don't want you pitching in your presentation. 00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:23.410 They would, they want to protect the integrity of the experience. 00:20:23.470 --> 00:20:23.680 Yeah. 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:27.390 It's interesting for me to make that clear to my audience, because I 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:31.390 think my audience is often under the impression that they have to have a 00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:36.270 directly transactional intent with almost anything that they do, but in 00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:39.710 Vistage and in many other scenarios, you actually don't have to go in. 00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:44.130 With a very transactional intent, you can just trust the whole thing 00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:46.180 to produce transactions naturally. 00:20:46.230 --> 00:20:50.160 A lot of the speakers will obviously have some kind of a lead gen Follow up thing 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:54.935 so they'll say hey I can send you x Just you know, so they're allowed to do that. 00:20:55.025 --> 00:20:55.555 Absolutely. 00:20:55.565 --> 00:20:56.615 Give me your email address. 00:20:56.645 --> 00:20:57.985 I'll follow up with this and this. 00:20:58.055 --> 00:21:01.525 I didn't experience one even medium pressure kind of a sales. 00:21:01.525 --> 00:21:03.525 Well, it doesn't have to, because if you think about the 00:21:03.525 --> 00:21:04.785 environment that creates that. 00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:08.030 In this, in our community, we talk about high trust. 00:21:08.330 --> 00:21:13.790 That's an extremely high trust environment where the speaker is vetted. 00:21:14.500 --> 00:21:17.270 The speaker has skin in the game because if they don't do a 00:21:17.270 --> 00:21:18.970 good job there, they get rated. 00:21:19.610 --> 00:21:20.350 They're going to get rated. 00:21:20.350 --> 00:21:24.620 They potentially lose the lead stream, the lead flow from Vistage. 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:30.335 You have, High value targets sitting in that room I mean 14 CEOs sitting 00:21:30.335 --> 00:21:32.945 there for three hours and you can't be in Vistage unless your top line 00:21:32.945 --> 00:21:35.225 revenue is above a certain point Yeah, pretty pretty good size. 00:21:35.315 --> 00:21:39.655 So you've got a three hour opportunity to build trust with people who can absolutely 00:21:39.655 --> 00:21:44.265 pay your fee Yeah, so the incentives are all set up to make those pretty great. 00:21:44.505 --> 00:21:47.375 , that's a good example of the kind of marketing that I would encourage a 00:21:47.375 --> 00:21:53.670 coach to think about where I would say You You could wisely spend two years 00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:59.770 preparing yourself to be a Vistage speaker and have nothing happen in 00:21:59.770 --> 00:22:02.230 those two years, but that's worth it. 00:22:02.330 --> 00:22:04.090 Yeah, I don't think it'd take two years. 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:04.540 Yeah. 00:22:05.550 --> 00:22:09.140 But yeah, you need to become, somehow become friends with a Vistage speaker. 00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:12.330 And you're going to do it pro bono three or four times. 00:22:12.350 --> 00:22:14.680 You're going to get rated and then you can be approved. 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:18.330 And then you need to actually be selected by the chairs. 00:22:18.620 --> 00:22:21.320 They have to reach out to you and say, Hey, are you available these dates? 00:22:21.650 --> 00:22:23.740 You can't go to chairs and say, Hey, I'm available. 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:24.590 Oh, you can't. 00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:24.920 No. 00:22:24.930 --> 00:22:26.650 So it's truly wait to be reached out to. 00:22:26.650 --> 00:22:27.590 It's just wait to be reached out. 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:28.480 Oh, that's interesting. 00:22:28.890 --> 00:22:32.610 And so when I would get them, I mean, I just didn't, for me, I was 00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:35.775 talking to him about remote work and why that would be, a good thing. 00:22:35.775 --> 00:22:40.895 And I was talking to a lot of pretty old school CEOs and it was, it was 00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:44.245 a fun presentation because I got to make them very uncomfortable, but it 00:22:44.245 --> 00:22:47.955 didn't directly translate into , Hey, YNAB offers financial wellness. 00:22:47.975 --> 00:22:51.815 You know, I would have to give a presentation to CEOs that's about how 00:22:51.815 --> 00:22:53.655 their kids could do better with money. 00:22:54.335 --> 00:22:56.665 That maybe would start to do it. 00:22:56.685 --> 00:22:59.835 But to go there and give a presentation about how financial wellness affects 00:22:59.835 --> 00:23:05.560 the bottom line of their company, it just, It just wasn't, yeah, it 00:23:05.580 --> 00:23:06.880 certainly wasn't worth your time. 00:23:07.320 --> 00:23:07.590 No. 00:23:07.590 --> 00:23:10.700 And if I could give that presentation, I would, but I don't think 00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:12.100 it's attractive to the chairs. 00:23:12.130 --> 00:23:13.770 It's too narrow, you know? 00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:17.150 There's a lot on sales, how to sell. 00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:20.310 There's a lot on legacy planning. 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:26.960 I think you can go in and kind of see what the, what the topics are in, in 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.730 vestige maybe, but it would be worth. 00:23:31.345 --> 00:23:33.765 Taking a vicious chair out to lunch and asking them. 00:23:34.975 --> 00:23:36.115 Does EO do anything similar? 00:23:36.115 --> 00:23:37.085 Do they do guest speakers? 00:23:37.485 --> 00:23:38.645 I don't think so. 00:23:38.675 --> 00:23:41.465 I went and spoke at an EO group once, but it was like friend of a friend. 00:23:41.465 --> 00:23:42.885 He's just like, Hey, you should come talk to us. 00:23:42.905 --> 00:23:44.155 And I did for an hour. 00:23:45.785 --> 00:23:46.875 It was totally informal. 00:23:47.265 --> 00:23:51.125 I think EO does more like you have those, those meetings and then they do trips. 00:23:51.145 --> 00:23:53.505 I think they're more like travel oriented. 00:23:53.575 --> 00:23:54.095 Interesting. 00:23:54.105 --> 00:23:54.285 Yeah. 00:23:54.285 --> 00:23:55.475 Where you'll go on these big trips. 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:00.710 So you said at the highest level, so maybe the executive team, but would there be 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:04.860 any other scenario in which someone I don't know what the best way to, you 00:24:04.860 --> 00:24:08.470 know, rank and file another YNAB team member would come and say, I'd like to 00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:10.000 get some coaching around X, Y, or Z. 00:24:10.260 --> 00:24:11.570 What do you think YNAB would say about that? 00:24:12.070 --> 00:24:14.640 I think it's been the T and D budget and it makes, it kind of, 00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:16.320 you know, passes the sniff test. 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:17.400 I think a manager. 00:24:17.950 --> 00:24:18.950 Probably be okay with it. 00:24:19.850 --> 00:24:20.150 Yeah. 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:26.770 I'm not sure what individual T and D budgets are, you know it would, 00:24:27.790 --> 00:24:31.720 yeah, we've, I don't know if we've ever been approached like that. 00:24:31.850 --> 00:24:35.000 I've wondered about a company like YNAB having. 00:24:36.225 --> 00:24:40.905 A staff, it's essentially a staff therapist, just sort of like, Oh 00:24:40.905 --> 00:24:43.655 yeah, I'm going to go meet with, I'm going to go meet with Mark, right? 00:24:44.215 --> 00:24:46.845 What do you, what comes to your mind when I say that? 00:24:46.955 --> 00:24:51.775 If it was the same therapist that to me would start to be kind of problematic. 00:24:51.815 --> 00:24:52.415 Oh yeah. 00:24:52.485 --> 00:24:52.995 Okay, good. 00:24:52.995 --> 00:24:53.195 Why? 00:24:53.215 --> 00:24:53.575 Yeah. 00:24:53.625 --> 00:24:56.525 I think they would start to kind of cross pollinate a little bit. 00:24:56.535 --> 00:25:01.345 Like, if you're talking about family stuff,, Maybe it's okay, but if 00:25:01.345 --> 00:25:04.105 you're, you're like, Hey, I'm coming to this therapist for work things 00:25:04.905 --> 00:25:06.395 or we should say coach, by the way. 00:25:06.405 --> 00:25:07.315 I mean, yes, coach. 00:25:07.845 --> 00:25:11.385 Then the coach, it's like, I'm having a problem with my manager and then 00:25:11.385 --> 00:25:14.195 that manager is saying, I'm having a problem with this team member and, 00:25:14.235 --> 00:25:16.635 and the, the coach kind of knows both. 00:25:17.125 --> 00:25:21.835 And so I think it would be hard to be above the fray. 00:25:21.885 --> 00:25:22.875 Yeah, you're totally right. 00:25:23.295 --> 00:25:24.425 No, I can tell you this. 00:25:24.465 --> 00:25:25.575 No therapist would ever do it. 00:25:26.050 --> 00:25:26.380 Yeah. 00:25:26.560 --> 00:25:29.140 Well, yeah, they would probably, 'cause they'd be like, I can't, 00:25:29.260 --> 00:25:29.985 ethically they can't do that. 00:25:29.985 --> 00:25:34.030 Like, I can't give, I, yeah, I, I think ethically, I, I remember, I, 00:25:34.030 --> 00:25:37.960 I have a great therapist and I was like, oh, you need to see so-and-So, 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:40.270 and it was all about like, well, what kind of a relationship do you 00:25:40.270 --> 00:25:41.560 have with so-and-So like, what? 00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:43.000 Because they just don't want it close. 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.910 Like they don't want any, where like they know something about 00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:46.870 you that you didn't tell them. 00:25:47.475 --> 00:25:50.465 I have not had that insight They don't want to know something about 00:25:50.465 --> 00:25:51.645 you that you didn't tell them. 00:25:51.805 --> 00:25:54.575 That's so good I don't know how that's never that's never occurred to me. 00:25:54.985 --> 00:25:57.915 I don't know It was I was surprised how many walls Flory 00:25:57.915 --> 00:25:59.275 my therapist was throwing up. 00:25:59.275 --> 00:26:00.175 I was like, what is the deal? 00:26:00.175 --> 00:26:01.525 I'm trying to refer somebody. 00:26:01.525 --> 00:26:04.295 Yeah It's like she was playing hard to get in a big way. 00:26:04.325 --> 00:26:07.755 I said to Ann once, and my therapist that I've worked with, I said, I 00:26:07.755 --> 00:26:08.845 would love it if you'd meet with Kate. 00:26:08.855 --> 00:26:09.675 She just shook her head. 00:26:09.795 --> 00:26:09.995 Yeah. 00:26:10.035 --> 00:26:12.735 She didn't even, she just, she's like, cause she knew that I knew. 00:26:12.825 --> 00:26:13.105 Yeah. 00:26:13.495 --> 00:26:15.455 She said, she's got to go find her own therapist. 00:26:15.455 --> 00:26:15.655 Yeah. 00:26:17.085 --> 00:26:18.025 Interesting. 00:26:18.625 --> 00:26:24.175 So my my thesis for this, by the way, folks, is that sometimes coaches 00:26:24.175 --> 00:26:26.895 fall into the trap of believing that there isn't a market for coaching. 00:26:27.195 --> 00:26:27.765 Oh, no. 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.330 And I just wanted to bring in a civilian here and be like, 00:26:32.330 --> 00:26:33.600 no, there's money being spent. 00:26:34.010 --> 00:26:34.390 Absolutely. 00:26:34.410 --> 00:26:40.650 I would guess that for example, Todd's coach is not an expensive, not cheap. 00:26:40.820 --> 00:26:41.410 Oh, not at all. 00:26:41.560 --> 00:26:41.820 Yeah. 00:26:42.150 --> 00:26:45.010 I couldn't tell you exactly, but not cheap. 00:26:45.110 --> 00:26:45.390 Yeah. 00:26:45.390 --> 00:26:51.100 If she has 10 Todd's, she's doing great. 00:26:51.985 --> 00:26:52.235 Yeah. 00:26:52.785 --> 00:26:56.815 I love that you said that because I often tell this audience, it 00:26:56.825 --> 00:26:58.225 doesn't take a lot of relationships. 00:26:58.335 --> 00:27:02.565 It doesn't take a, in this particular business model, I may never have 00:27:02.565 --> 00:27:04.285 more than a hundred clients total. 00:27:04.475 --> 00:27:05.455 Yeah, absolutely. 00:27:05.465 --> 00:27:06.245 In my career. 00:27:06.315 --> 00:27:06.545 Yeah. 00:27:06.890 --> 00:27:08.480 Because that's the nature of the model. 00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:11.470 There's, there's an interesting thing about the person that wants 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:13.020 coaching and can't afford it. 00:27:13.070 --> 00:27:13.870 I get that. 00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:20.050 But when you're dealing with someone that has the means they do 00:27:20.050 --> 00:27:22.180 start to kind of look everywhere. 00:27:22.535 --> 00:27:28.455 For that up level they look for the therapist, they look for the tutor for 00:27:28.455 --> 00:27:32.295 their kid, they look for, I mean, if I wanted to get into long rifle shooting 00:27:32.295 --> 00:27:37.545 where you want to hit something a mile away, which is absolutely worthwhile, I 00:27:37.555 --> 00:27:41.725 would find, I would find someone that's like, just teach me how much, like when I 00:27:41.725 --> 00:27:43.195 wanted to learn how to butcher a chicken. 00:27:43.685 --> 00:27:47.515 I just found the guy, the chicken coach, if you will. 00:27:48.225 --> 00:27:50.715 But you, you're like, I'm not going to mess around with YouTube. 00:27:50.875 --> 00:27:51.555 That, that's the thing. 00:27:51.555 --> 00:27:53.425 It's like, I'm not going to mess around with YouTube. 00:27:53.505 --> 00:27:54.775 Let's cut to the chase. 00:27:54.985 --> 00:27:58.145 There are a lot of people like me that maybe aren't quite as neurotic, but a 00:27:58.145 --> 00:28:02.045 lot of people like me, they're like, I want to get the best I can get. 00:28:02.305 --> 00:28:03.795 I don't want to waste my time. 00:28:03.795 --> 00:28:04.665 I don't want to spend my wheels. 00:28:04.905 --> 00:28:06.705 I mean, I'm really good at lifting weights. 00:28:06.705 --> 00:28:07.645 I know all the movements. 00:28:07.665 --> 00:28:09.845 I totally have a coach and will never not. 00:28:10.185 --> 00:28:12.015 It's just outsourcing. 00:28:12.025 --> 00:28:12.855 That is. 00:28:13.375 --> 00:28:18.045 Is fantastic, you know, and like again and again and again, you get 00:28:18.045 --> 00:28:22.575 those kinds of people that just, yeah, like let's cut to the chase 00:28:22.575 --> 00:28:25.025 and find someone great and get there. 00:28:25.045 --> 00:28:27.025 Well, it's another thing I've said on this podcast and I will 00:28:27.025 --> 00:28:28.245 say it a million more times. 00:28:28.285 --> 00:28:31.965 The people who buy coaching are the people who are already converted to coaching. 00:28:31.985 --> 00:28:32.355 Yes. 00:28:32.765 --> 00:28:34.965 Your job is not to convert someone to coaching. 00:28:35.065 --> 00:28:37.095 Yeah, you don't want to coach that person. 00:28:37.095 --> 00:28:39.215 I caught a clip of Noah Kagan. 00:28:39.215 --> 00:28:43.325 You know who Noah Kagan is He was, he's early at mint. 00:28:43.495 --> 00:28:45.495 com and early at Facebook. 00:28:45.495 --> 00:28:46.865 And now he has, he owns app sumo. 00:28:46.935 --> 00:28:47.865 He's hard to track. 00:28:47.875 --> 00:28:50.285 Cause he just kind of keeps, he just does a lot of stuff. 00:28:50.515 --> 00:28:52.405 I think he decided he wanted to be a YouTube creator. 00:28:52.425 --> 00:28:53.115 A little while ago. 00:28:53.285 --> 00:28:55.365 That's how I, I, I funny guy. 00:28:55.505 --> 00:29:00.105 I caught him on Tim Ferriss's podcast, a YouTube clip of him on Tim Ferriss's 00:29:00.145 --> 00:29:04.905 podcast, and they were talking about coaching and Noah Kagan was like, 00:29:04.905 --> 00:29:08.115 yeah, I just have a bunch of people that I can pay a thousand dollars 00:29:08.115 --> 00:29:11.725 an hour for, Whatever it is I need. 00:29:11.815 --> 00:29:12.065 Yeah. 00:29:12.095 --> 00:29:14.375 So if it's a people issue, I go to this person and pay him a thousand 00:29:14.375 --> 00:29:19.985 bucks an hour I want my audience to know that that is the real world. 00:29:20.145 --> 00:29:20.365 Yeah. 00:29:21.375 --> 00:29:22.505 That's out there. 00:29:23.015 --> 00:29:25.835 , I'm not saying it's easy to become that person but it exists. 00:29:25.845 --> 00:29:26.755 The market is there. 00:29:27.275 --> 00:29:29.025 We're not trying to make a market that isn't there. 00:29:29.025 --> 00:29:29.435 It's there. 00:29:29.485 --> 00:29:30.585 No, yeah, absolutely. 00:29:31.795 --> 00:29:33.345 Folks, that's Jesse Mecham from YNAB. 00:29:33.915 --> 00:29:34.515 Thanks for having me. 00:29:35.015 --> 00:29:35.655 Thanks for being here. 00:29:35.665 --> 00:29:36.815 Everyone should use YNAB. 00:29:37.005 --> 00:29:37.725 Absolutely. 00:29:37.835 --> 00:29:39.105 You got to love how you spend your money. 00:29:39.885 --> 00:29:41.255 Spend all this time earning it. 00:29:41.435 --> 00:29:44.065 Let's also love it when we spend it. 00:29:44.995 --> 00:29:45.415 Awesome. 00:29:46.205 --> 00:29:48.105 That's a podcast for coaches and we'll talk to you next time.