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Hey, it's Matt from the WP minute
different kind of episode today.

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I'm sharing a segment.

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Of Josepha, Haden trompo, C's
recent, presentation or meeting,

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at the midterm goals for WordPress.

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That she joined us on the,
media Corp team, which is,

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an initiative@wordpress.org.

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if you're a media outlet or considering
yourself a WordPress media outlet, you can

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knock on the door of the media Corp team.

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And I guess apply question mark.

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I'm not really sure actually.

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I believe it's open.

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I just, I just don't know what the
process is for, for joining that team.

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On a more official level.

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But I found it a fascinating update.

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There's a bunch of write-ups that I
think I'll do from this interview.

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I just wanted to get it out there
for those who are like really

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deeply interested in this stuff.

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And you can hear.

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from Josepha directly in this recording,
and this is an open recording.

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This is not a private thing.

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You can go to WordPress, YouTube channel.

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I'll link it up in the description.

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And you can tune in and listen to her.

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And the, especially the question and
answers from other folks that attended.

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Unfortunately, I did miss this meeting
because I had some prior work duties.

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but I really wanted to join in
and throw in some questions,

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but I still thought it was good.

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You know, the, the general
consensus is slow as it goes.

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WordPress is continuing to improve.

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It seems like there.

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Hitting the marks that they wanted
to this year, there's nothing.

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That they've like urgently
said, boy, we've taken the

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ship in the wrong direction.

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there's a lot of investment
coming to, well I say investment.

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I mean, time and effort.

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probably money, but I'm
not in the general sense.

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to the playground to WordPress playground.

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And I think that is literally,
I've done a video about this, that

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WordPress playground is the future.

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Maybe even wrote a post about this.

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I'm going to double
down on that statement.

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That, especially as we go into 2025
playground will play a pivotal role in

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folks experiencing WordPress, whether
that's your, whether you're a developer.

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And you're like, Hey, I just want to try
this new GitHub PR that just came through.

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and I want to test it out
and see what it's like.

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or if you're a WordPress product.

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Creator plugins themes.

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You know, get getting yourself
familiar and, and working with that

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platform is going to be important.

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And if you're an end user, simply spinning
up a WordPress site to test it out.

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I mean, playground, I think is
going to be the future of how we all

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start to interact with WordPress.

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In some degree.

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so I find that rather interesting.

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It's funny.

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I also did a video about Drupal.

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comparing Drupal, custom fields
and their views methodology.

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And they have a sort of click to
install and run a Drupal site.

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And it takes forever.

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Like, you know, you, you click on it.

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It says, okay, let's start this up.

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And I, and I think it almost
builds like a whole Linux.

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Environment, W, you know, in
the browser and it takes like, I

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don't know, three, four minutes
for the whole thing to boot up.

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whereas playground that
wordpress.net is instant.

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Like you instantly go and
everyone has their own unique.

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Version of WordPress while they're
in it, it just runs in your browser.

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so it is fascinating as much.

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As, you know, folks have been, you know,
giving it back to automatically lately.

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They're doing some great things.

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especially the playground.

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I can't say it enough.

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So here we go.

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We're going to dive into Joseph a segment.

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Remember.

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Click the link in the show notes.

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If you want to watch the full
YouTube video, so you can see the

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entirety of this meeting and also
hear the questions and answers.

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From the folks that were live on
the panel, I'll be at work camp us.

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Be sure to say hi.

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As always, thanks to all of
our sponsors and supporters who

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have joined the slack community.

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You can support us@thewpminute.com slash.

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Support.

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Josepha: It's me.

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Hi.

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I'm Josefa and I'm here with WordPress.

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yeah, so I wanted to talk a little
bit about our midterm goals.

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So WordCamp Europe, obviously Matt
showed up with his 11 opinions,

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about, about what WordPress
needs to do, what it needs to be.

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and after that, I ended up having
quite a few conversations with

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folks about like, what is WordPress?

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How does this fit with the overall
big pictures that we put out there?

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big the big picture, posts that we that
I put out and fortunately everything

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almost everything that showed up in those
11 points are still Absolutely relevant

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to the big picture posts that I put out
now the Biggest change, obviously, this

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year is around the CMS, so we had hoped
to get phase three kind of prototyped

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and built out and put out in front of
the community, but early on in the year.

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It became pretty clear that one of the,
more pressing items for user facing, I

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don't know, user satisfaction of WordPress
is to maybe make our admin a little bit

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more modern looking and probably get
all of our, you know, five different

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interfaces kind of looking the same,
which I think is actually part of what

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that design system that, you know, when
published is about, and so the work on

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phase three, the active, like everybody.

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Focused diligently on phase three work
sort of paused early in the year while

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we took a look at the admin and what
we wanted to be in the future, how

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blocks will work in there, and then
ended up doing a bunch of foundational

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work, which is not user facing a lot
of, major backend elements and APIs to

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make sure that we can get that done.

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and so I've been really excited to see
that design system get out, because

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I think that one, it does kind of.

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Pull together some visual elements
of what we are aiming for.

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And then also gives a common
design language to WordPress.

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That is the hope is that we can
improve the user experience by having

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a more consistent look and feel
across our admin, and then also having

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the dashboard and the admin areas.

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Just be more modern and more
in line with what the software

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actually is capable of doing now.

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So that is probably the biggest
shift from that big picture post,

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but it happened a long time ago.

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And so there are, however, four
things in those 11 points that

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Matt brought up at WordCamp.

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Europe that I think really commit to that
and, and support that change in direction.

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Obviously the first one being that simple
things should be easy and intuitive

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and complex things should be possible.

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the admin area, along with just kind of
having a massive influx of notifications

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has gotten more and more complex as we
have gotten through WordPress as a whole.

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and so.

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Getting that into a state that's a
little bit easier to kind of fall

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into and understand is going to be
really important, and then there were

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three other things in there as well.

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One, that WordPress should be more
opinionated and quirky, that people

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who are building WordPress should be
using WordPress and a bunch of the,

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Gutenberg engineers recently did a ton
of user, user, what is this called?

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Sorry for the recording.

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I am sick.

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And so I can't get my words.

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Sometimes user testing.

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That's it.

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A bunch of user testing.

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not only to check flows for onboarding,
which I know have been an ongoing concern

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for, the project or for the software,
but then also for like any basic activity

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that you want to accomplish so that
you can feel successful and have the

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desire, to learn those bigger concepts.

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Just trying to make those a lot easier,
a lot clearer, and a lot quicker.

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And so, that goes into that.

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And then, if we get all of those things
kind of back into an easy, comfortable

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state, then the, the part that Matt
shared about blogging and commenting and

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pingbacks being more fun, and allowing
websites to be more dynamic again, I

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think that that shows up over time in it.

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the second element from the second
goal from our big picture post was

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around the community, continuing to
support, our community as a whole

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through learning events and mentorship.

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and that would be for current
and future contributors early on

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this year as well, the community
facing teams, the event folks.

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had a big shift toward, less focus on
bringing in new contributors, which

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has been our lifelong focus, and more
focus on bringing in new users with

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the belief that everything that we've
done to enable contribution will

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still function as, as it always has.

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so the work that is going in now
is to get better feedback from.

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People who are attending our workshops and
our events and making the online learning

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as clear and important and valuable as
all of the business stuff and networking

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that you can do at meetups and WordCamps
and then also all of our flagship events.

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We have the dashboards coming, which
Ray has mentioned, and that's part

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of the reason we're doing that.

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Like we're working to standardize
the questions that we ask new and

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returning attendees to our events
so that our organizers can have

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some clearer and better information
to make decisions that are helpful

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for them and impactful for them.

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We also are foregoing the
giant annual survey this year.

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We're going to take advantage of the giant
annual survey that, Stack Exchange does.

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We're included in it, again this year,
and so we're going to take advantage of

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that information because they get more
people from outside of the WordPress

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space, to give us some better information,
more accurate information about future

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users of WordPress as opposed to current
users of WordPress, so that we can kind

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of get some, some indications of what
our opportunities are for future growth,

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but then also, Making space for those
kind of ad hoc polls that we see popping

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up on LinkedIn and Twitter and anywhere
else where people can just say like,

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Hey, do you use it for this or this?

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If you were doing this activity today,
would you choose this or this, and

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get kind of more timely feedback for
the features that we're trying to

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experiment and build toward, that way.

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And so the things from Matt's 11 points
that fit in with that are that we should

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have better feedback loops in general.

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Agreed.

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Hard agree.

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it doesn't help us to be
moving forward with speed.

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If the direction that we're moving
forward in is not something that

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our, users need or want from us.

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and then also one of his call outs was
to be a supporter by going to meetups,

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events, and other things that help us
stay close to users, because we are

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the people who are building WordPress.

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And so, if we are building
it, we should be using it.

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And that includes if we're
building it, we should be talking

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to the people who are using it.

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In ways that we expect, and
ways that we don't expect.

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And the best ways to do that is to get
to those events, either as organizers

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or just regular old attendees.

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I'm headed toward Camp U.

00:11:06.933 --> 00:11:07.103
S.

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and I'm going to do my best to be a
regular old attendee, sitting in some

00:11:10.703 --> 00:11:12.343
sessions, seeing what's happening and not.

00:11:12.873 --> 00:11:14.893
and that'll be a change
of pace for me as well.

00:11:15.103 --> 00:11:18.033
So that's a, that's a kind
of one of those changes that

00:11:18.033 --> 00:11:20.943
occurred on our second big goal.

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And then our third one actually
has not changed too much.

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The third big goal that we had was around
the ecosystem and especially focusing on

00:11:30.688 --> 00:11:37.338
the data liberation project to make the
process of getting from one non WordPress

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space to a WordPress space easier, and
then WordPress to WordPress, as required.

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That has been ongoing all year.

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We had a few prototypes at
the start of the year that.

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We're kind of okay, but not
quite what we were looking for.

00:11:51.773 --> 00:11:57.063
and it was around WordCamp Europe that
we had gotten a pretty viable, concept

00:11:57.313 --> 00:12:01.693
of what could work and what will
work, I think for easier migrations.

00:12:02.043 --> 00:12:07.193
And the hardest parts of that, the, the
parts that require, you know, you to

00:12:07.203 --> 00:12:09.583
be as brilliant as Adam Zielinski are.

00:12:10.683 --> 00:12:11.233
Almost done.

00:12:11.243 --> 00:12:15.043
We're ready to start, to, to start
hooking into it and extending it

00:12:15.043 --> 00:12:17.573
like we do any other WordPress thing.

00:12:17.693 --> 00:12:23.783
And so for that, actually, we're kind
of get gearing up for an adoption phase

00:12:23.813 --> 00:12:31.533
of it, of all of the, like, top hundred
plugins that exist in the WordPress repo.

00:12:32.413 --> 00:12:34.193
I think only 12 of them.

00:12:34.563 --> 00:12:40.113
Use blueprints so that when you are
testing a plugin inside playground,

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it gives you some information,
some, some fake data so that it's

00:12:44.783 --> 00:12:48.183
clear what it's trying to do versus
what you are hoping it will do.

00:12:48.643 --> 00:12:51.173
and also so that it
functions correctly in there.

00:12:51.173 --> 00:12:55.253
And so that's going to be our next
phase for that, is to get the hardest

00:12:55.263 --> 00:13:01.988
parts built so that, so that every
In the WordPress ecosystem can make

00:13:02.018 --> 00:13:03.678
a blueprint and put it in there.

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And so their users know, is
this solution, something that's

00:13:07.888 --> 00:13:08.998
going to solve my problem.

00:13:09.398 --> 00:13:14.068
as we have been gearing up for
that, we also are really nearing.

00:13:14.298 --> 00:13:15.148
I believe it.

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I feel it in my bones nearing the time
when we can just put a try out WordPress

00:13:19.328 --> 00:13:25.268
now button on the homepage that takes
you to a playground instance that has.

00:13:25.718 --> 00:13:27.348
valuable, not valuable.

00:13:28.918 --> 00:13:35.258
A useful theme, a theme that looks like
what we want, a good first timer site

00:13:35.268 --> 00:13:39.318
to look like, and a couple of plugins,
so you get a sense for like what a theme

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is, how it works, what plugins are, and
how they work, and really can, can test

00:13:44.498 --> 00:13:46.238
drive your site before you get into it.

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We're really close to
that, I'm pretty sure.

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And so the things that
Matt had brought up, this

00:13:53.168 --> 00:13:53.618
summer.

00:13:54.128 --> 00:13:58.118
If you're in the northern hemisphere
about that in his 11 points

00:13:58.118 --> 00:13:59.858
were wikis for documentation.

00:13:59.858 --> 00:14:04.348
We are actually prototyping
a playground driven wiki

00:14:04.348 --> 00:14:06.138
experience for our documentation.

00:14:06.848 --> 00:14:11.008
And that looks like it's going
well, I don't understand it, but

00:14:11.008 --> 00:14:14.818
there is a post out that we can get
a link for and share with you all.

00:14:17.023 --> 00:14:22.893
Getting forums back into kind of a
front and center space so that people

00:14:22.893 --> 00:14:28.243
can have not only conversations, but
also like see who else around them is

00:14:28.243 --> 00:14:33.303
having the same issues or the same,
excitements, the same extending,

00:14:33.363 --> 00:14:37.323
opportunities that they are having,
and a lot of work is going into that.

00:14:37.323 --> 00:14:42.073
We have a bug smashing event
for it at WordCamp US coming

00:14:42.073 --> 00:14:43.653
up, which should be pretty fun.

00:14:44.233 --> 00:14:48.673
and the call to having plugins
and themes, having mirror.

00:14:49.068 --> 00:14:52.828
Infrastructure to the WordPress
project is still ongoing

00:14:53.138 --> 00:14:57.138
better theme previews obviously
playground is going to drive that.

00:14:58.068 --> 00:15:02.448
And the work with data liberation
is playground driven at the moment.

00:15:02.468 --> 00:15:07.808
And so as we are building out all of
these things for the data liberation

00:15:07.808 --> 00:15:09.228
project powered by playground.

00:15:09.488 --> 00:15:13.758
I'm pretty sure the rest of these, holes
that we have in the new user experience

00:15:13.768 --> 00:15:18.118
when they're trying to just decide whether
WordPress works for them or not will

00:15:18.118 --> 00:15:21.958
also, get a few bridges over those gaps.

00:15:22.008 --> 00:15:26.418
And at that point can only be made
better by our plugin authors and

00:15:26.418 --> 00:15:30.678
our theme authors, really embracing
that new tool and making sure

00:15:30.678 --> 00:15:32.508
that their tools work inside it.

00:15:32.948 --> 00:15:33.398
And so.

00:15:34.108 --> 00:15:34.718
A little bit.

00:15:34.968 --> 00:15:39.838
Matt's 11 points show up almost as
like tactical elements that live

00:15:39.838 --> 00:15:43.278
inside the goals that we have for
the WordPress project this year.

00:15:44.338 --> 00:15:45.968
We pulled together.

00:15:46.443 --> 00:15:53.613
A whole list of projects that we either
have shipped or are about to ship that

00:15:53.943 --> 00:15:58.883
specifically relate to all of those 11
tactics that go along with the three

00:15:58.883 --> 00:16:02.343
goals that we have, and I'm going to try
to get it published before WordCamp U.

00:16:02.343 --> 00:16:02.593
S.

00:16:02.633 --> 00:16:06.363
so that we all kind of have the same
sort of thing that we're looking at.

00:16:06.763 --> 00:16:08.563
and I, I think maybe.

00:16:08.893 --> 00:16:13.533
Reyes can get you all an early, an
early copy of it, before, before it

00:16:13.533 --> 00:16:17.283
gets out there, so that if you have
questions around that, we can get those

00:16:17.313 --> 00:16:20.483
answered, or if there are anything that
doesn't really make sense to you all,

00:16:20.483 --> 00:16:21.853
you can let us know about that too.

00:16:22.413 --> 00:16:25.123
but that's kind of the, that's
kind of the long and short of

00:16:25.123 --> 00:16:26.453
how those all fit together.

00:16:26.873 --> 00:16:31.103
and in the post that we pulled together
about the work that's been done just

00:16:31.113 --> 00:16:36.143
kind of in the last quarter around
those, tactical elements for our goals.

00:16:36.378 --> 00:16:37.998
I was tired looking at it.

00:16:38.008 --> 00:16:39.308
It was like four pages long.

00:16:39.318 --> 00:16:41.078
And so we're going to try
and make it a little shorter.

00:16:41.508 --> 00:16:47.008
but it's just a continuing testament to
the work that the community does toward

00:16:47.498 --> 00:16:51.238
the things that we think are going to make
WordPress be able to grow in the future.

00:16:51.548 --> 00:16:54.328
And so I'm really excited to be able
to get that post out for you all.

00:16:54.468 --> 00:16:58.808
Like I said, depending on how fast my
brain continues to work, well, I'm sick.

00:16:58.818 --> 00:17:00.718
I'll get that out before WordCamp US.

00:17:00.918 --> 00:17:02.188
I believe that we can do it.

00:17:02.628 --> 00:17:03.893
and so, yeah, that's, that's it.

00:17:04.353 --> 00:17:07.823
Kind of the lightning tour
of where we are with that.

00:17:07.933 --> 00:17:12.723
And I'll pause for questions
on that or anything else.

00:17:12.723 --> 00:17:13.033
I guess