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Society Builders pave the way
To a better world, to a better day

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A united approach to building a new society.

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Join the conversation
For social transformation

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Society Builders.

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Society Builders with your host Duane Varan.

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(Duane) Welcome to another exciting 
episode of Society Builders and thanks

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for joining the conversation, 
for social transformation.

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In our last episode we began our journey 
of summarizing what we ve been learning

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about the science of depolarization over 
the past few episodes and then working to

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understand what Baha i-inspired approaches 
to such depolarization might look like.

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And, of course, the challenge of 
sharing all of this is something

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that was too much to cover in a 
single episode, so we re exploring

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this theme across a series of episodes. And today 
s episode is the second part of this series.

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In our last episode we started with the first 
theme we ll be exploring in this context and

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that focused on what we can do to both limit the 
effects of polarized content in our own lives and

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how we should be on guard to not further propagate 
such content. Remember, polarization is a social

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pollutant. If we live in society if we interact 
with society we re going to be breathing polarized

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content every day. So in the same way that we have 
become more aware of what we eat in recent years,

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looking at counting our calories and scrutinizing 
ingredients in this same way, we also have to

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become more aware of the content we consume and 
limit the toxic polarized content in our diet.

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But we also need to be sensitized to the fact 
that because we breathe in such social pollutants,

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we are also often transmitters of polarized 
content, despite our best intent. And so we also

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need to become more aware of our own expression 
working towards what the Universal House of

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Justice frames as an etiquette of expression 
becoming guarded in the content, volume,

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and style of our expression, while exercising 
tact, wisdom and timeliness in our response.

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So depolarization starts with us.

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Today, we continue our journey as we explore 
a few more themes reflected in Baha i-inspired

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approaches to depolarization. Specifically, 
we ll explore how polarization dehumanizes the

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other and what we can do to help rehumanize that 
equation. And we ll explore how we can enhance

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our capacity to listen and understand others, 
which are critical to effective depolarization.

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So there s a lot of exciting gems 
there for us to discover today.

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(musical interlude)

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A key feature of toxic polarization is that 
it often dehumanizes the other. We become

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desensitized to the other. It s like we don t 
really care how they feel and this isn t a view

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we form after critical reflection we re operating 
in auto pilot. We re guided by our impulse and

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so unconsciously we prejudge the other and treat 
them different to how we would like to be treated.

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Now I emphasize that all of this is happening 
at a subconscious level. And this is precisely

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why it s so easy for us to fall in this trap 
and become a victim to it. I say victim here

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because we don t want this outcome we don t 
want to be perpetrators of polarization - so

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even as perpetrators, we are victims too because 
it conflicts with the person we truly want to be.

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Addressing this issue is simple on one hand 
and complex on the other. It s relatively

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easy to help people become aware of their 
propensity to dehumanize another but it

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s much harder getting them to rehumanize the 
other. And this is our particular challenge.

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Now to start our exploration, let s go back 
to episode 20 and listen to Amanda Ripley as

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she shares this delightful story about how 
Nelson Mandela approached this challenge.

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(Amanda Ripley) So over time, he learned to really

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resist those impulses, and he in particular, 
got really good at learning to never,

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ever humiliate your opponent to the contrary, 
to actually speak to them in their language.

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I think the anecdote you're referencing is after 
he got out of prison, while he was in prison,

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he learned Afrikaans, he learned how 
to speak the language of his oppressor,

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which was hugely and is hugely controversial. 
Right. Among yeah. So fascinating.

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Yeah, because it's like, why should he have 
to there's a million things you could say

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about that. But anyway, he very purposefully 
wanted to speak their language. And he has

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another quote, which is basically, you can 
speak to a man's head if you speak to him in

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a language you understand, but if you speak to 
him in his language, you can speak to his heart.

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But when this high ranking official came to 
his home, as is, after he's out of prison,

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and they wanted to negotiate something, and this 
particular official was a known overt racist,

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it was not implicit. And Mandela had invited 
him into his home, and when he got there,

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he started speaking to him in his own language, 
which takes the official by surprise, of course.

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And then he asked him if he'd like some tea.

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He says, 'yes', and then he 
begins to prepare the tea for him.

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Now, Mandela had staff at this point, 
right. There were people there who

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could do that sort of thing, but he 
very intentionally did it himself.

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And it was these small things he did in order 
to interrupt the dance that they were in of

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high conflict, to take him by surprise, so 
that there was a little bit of humanity.

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And when you see your opponent as a human and vice 
versa, it is harder to dehumanize them. Right.

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(Duane) I think this is a great starting point for

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our conversation. It helps 
us visualize the challenge.

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And similarly, I think the whole story that 
Rabbi Roly Matalon shares with us in episode

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23 about the exchange he facilitated between 
members of his congregation and people who

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s views were at the other extreme of his 
own, really highlights the value of this

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kind of rehumanization. Just to remind you 
his congregation was deeply left-leaning,

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progressive liberals and they were distraught 
when Trump was first elected. So he organized

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an exchange with a group of prison-guards 
who were deep Maga Republicans where his

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group spent almost a week living with them in 
rural Michigan and then they came up to New

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York to live with his congregation all part 
of an effort to better understand the other.

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And Rabbi Roly explains in our interview how 
this act of trying to appreciate the other

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is a spiritual principle. Let s listen in as 
he explains why this is a spiritual problem:

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(Rabbi Roly)
It is a spiritual

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problem because it is a problem about 
discovering another person's humanity.

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Humanity and the human soul are spiritual 
issues, right? So just to hear somebody else,

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to understand, to relate, not just to 
dismiss because you have different political

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ideas, but just to try to understand, 
number one, that's a spiritual issue.

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And look at the effect this all had. Rabbi 
Roly summarizes this impact in telling the

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story about how shortly after an atrocity in which 
members of a Jewish congregation were killed in a

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synagogue in Pittsburg, how these deep red Maga 
Republicans that he had facilitated the exchange

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with then sent a delegation to express their 
solidarity. Again, let s listen in on his story:

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(Rabbi Roly)
So two days later

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we are on a phone call and they said, we 
are so shocked by what happened because

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now we know Jews and we feel you're 
our family. And so an attack on a

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synagogue is an attack on all of us, on our 
family. I am so moved as I'm saying this.

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(Duane) Amazing!

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(Rabbi Roly) Right!
(Duane) Yeah.

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(Rabbi Roly) Before we knew you Jews were Jews. 
After we met you, you're our family. So we are

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outraged. We are going to write a statement and 
so on. We would like to come to the synagogue

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to send a delegation to the synagogue the 
following week to express our solidarity

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and to read a statement before the congregation 
and to denounce the anti-semitism in our country.

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(Duane) I mean, this story is 
so incredibly moving, right?

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Rabbi Roly s congregation didn t 
go Maga. The Republicans didn t go

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Democrat. Their fundamental views hadn 
t changed. But what did change was that

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they came to view the humanity in 
each other they were rehumanized.

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And I want to take this now to its extreme. Even 
when you re interacting with people who have done

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terrible, terrible thing IF you want to see 
a path forward if you want to see progress

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towards depolarization then you have to 
be able to see that person s humanity.

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You have to be able to see the best in 
them. And clearly this is no easy feat.

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I think Andrea Bartoli really illustrated 
this when he was talking about the process

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of building peace in civil war-torn Mozambique. 
That task required him and others to sit and

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mediate with people who had committed the 
most horrific acts possible but to find a

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path forward he had to accompany them. Now this 
wasn t easy for him in fact, he positions this

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as the most challenging part of his work but 
it s critical to navigating a journey forward.

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And this is all about helping a person 
in THEIR journey accompanying them in

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expanding the horizons associated 
with their own aspirations. And

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this is the challenge for both friend 
and foe alike to help accompany them.

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Let s listen to him as he describes 
this journey of accompaniment:

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(Andrea Bartoli) So there is an interesting 
gift in accompaniment that enriches our

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lives tremendously, because those who 
accompany are not guiding. Those who

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are accompanying are not imposing. Those 
who are accompanying are not oppressing.

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Those who are accompanying are really 
accompanying. They are the space we

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need to be who we are. They are the 
presence we need to be who we are.

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So what we saw over and over again 
with the elderly, with the immigrants,

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with the kids, really with everybody. That 
accompaniment is fundamentally transforming.

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And of course, it transforms both. It 
transforms the one that is accompanied,

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but also the one that accompanies. Right. There 
is a very strong, natural bond in accompaniment.

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(Duane) And, of course, Baha is will 
immediately recognize this as so much

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effort over the past 25 years has been placed 
in helping us learn to accompany others.

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This challenge of re-tuning our framework of 
rehumanizing the other of learning to accompany

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the other - is one of the greatest challenges 
in depolarization. So how do we do this?

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And here, one of the most effective strategies 
is to awaken a different identity within us. We

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all live with multiple identities. When we go to 
a sporting match cheering for our favorite team,

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we awaken an identity. At home, we awaken 
another. At work, yet another. In each of

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these environments, there are norms and we are 
constantly engaged in a negotiation between who

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we believe ourselves to be who we want to be 
- and who others in our midst expect us to be.

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And this was a theme that Amanda Ripley 
shared with us in episode 20 about how

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people become entrenched in the identities 
tied to their conflicts and how a big

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part of getting out was to awaken other latent 
identities from within. Like how Sandra,

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a FARC rebel, had to rediscover her identity 
as a mother to help escape her conflict.

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The path to rehumanization often requires us 
to awaken a different identity in ourselves

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so we can reframe how we conceptualize the other.

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So in the same way that the FARC rebel needs 
to awaken her identity as mother in her path to

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rehumanizing the other, we too need to awaken an 
identity in this task and what identity is that?

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You guessed it it s our spiritual identity 
it s our identity as a Baha i. And this is

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a theme that the Universal House of Justice 
has been emphasizing in its recent messages:

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a focus on identity and reinforcing and 
cultivating our spiritual identity on

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finding coherence in our lives a balance 
between our material and spiritual selves.

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And part of that Baha i identity is this business 
of learning not to judge others. Of seeing the

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humanity in others. Remember that story when 
someone asked Abdul-Baha how He could be kind

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to everyone and He replied that in every face 
He looks into, He sees the face of His Father.

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And this isn t just a Baha i thing. It s a 
spiritual thing. To me, one of the clearest

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indicators of whether a person s faith is a 
positive or negative influence is whether it is

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a source of a person judging themselves or whether 
it s a yardstick for judging others. When it s a

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tool for judging yourself it s amazing you become 
a better person every day. But when it s a vehicle

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for judging others, it s a harmful influence 
in my opinion at least. For me that s the acid

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test. Is your faith a yardstick for judging 
yourself or a yardstick for judging others?

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So this business of not judging 
others, I think, is key to how

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Baha is should approach depolarization it 
s critical to the path of rehumanization.

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And one more thing here. One of the main 
strategies used by activists these days

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to promote even very positive causes 
is cancel culture putting pressure on

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others to not interact with a specific person 
because their views are at odds with yours.

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Now I appreciate the noble intent here. It 
s a way that people are promoting what are

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often very worthy principles principles 
we often agree with and want to promote

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too. And it s easy to see how we 
might resort to this tactic in our

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interaction with like-minded people taking 
a stand on an issue which we also uphold.

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But despite the noble intent behind 
this we need to see cancel culture

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for what it really is at it s core it s a path to

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dehumanization. Because YOU disagree with 
someone, because you are in the right,

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you are willing to brand THEM as an outcast. 
Personally, I think that sounds dehumanizing.

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Again I appreciate the intent but I worry that 
it only adds fuel to the fire of polarization.

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But hey, that s just my view you should 
reflect on this for yourself and ask

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yourself what cancel culture does in this path 
of polarization. And if you agree with me here,

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then you ll want to have heightened awareness 
again in your own media consumption. So you

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re guarded against resorting to getting 
sucked into the gravity of cancel culture.

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So rehumanizing is not easy. It requires 
critical reflection on our own actions,

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it requires awakening our spiritual identity, 
it requires not judging others and seeing the

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humanity in them, it requires accompaniment, and 
it requires critical reflection on the strategies

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which others might employ in their pursuit 
of noble causes but which we need to question

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because it might prove to be counter-productive.

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Now that s a lot to reflect 
on. But it all starts with an

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aspiration an aspiration to rehumanize the other.

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(musical interlude)

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Now another key tool for improving our ability 
to help depolarize is found in our capacity

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to listen and understand others. And this is 
a skill a skill we can develop and perfect.

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When people don t feel listened to when 
they don t feel understood they often

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need to escalate speaking louder resorting to 
more aggressive language even more aggressive

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means. Much of this is about something 
incredibly simple the need to be heard.

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Now listening and understanding doesn t mean that 
you ll necessarily agree with their views. It

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just means that people feel that you weighed their 
arguments that you gave it your due consideration.

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Remember as Dr. Schirch helped us understand 
so much of this path to depolarization is

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about neurophysiology. It s 
about the battle between our

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reptile brain and our rational brain 
between our emotional self and our

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rational self between our lower or material 
nature and our higher or divine nature.

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So listening and understanding helps 
elevate conversation to a more rational

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level where we can disagree with 
each other but disagree with respect.

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And we were incredibly fortunate to be 
given a gift through the experience of

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world-famous mediator, Gary Friedman, and 
that was in episode 22. And this was the

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tool he shared which he calls looping a tool for 
helping us better listen and understand others.

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Now looping is about actively listening to what 
a person says and then saying it back to them

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in your own words and asking them whether you 
understood them correctly. And if you didn t,

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looping back and getting them to explain it 
again until you re able to recite it back to

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them to their satisfaction. That s a clear sign 
that you actually understand what they re saying.

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And as Gary explains, this need 
to explain, in our own words,

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what the other person says, ensures 
that we listen properly. He says this:

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(Gary Friedman). You can't loop unless you 
listen, and you can't listen unless you've

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turned your attention to now what's 
happening before you in this moment.

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Learning to listen to others is an incredibly 
important skill for Baha is to develop in fact,

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I think it s the one of the most important 
qualities in learning to share the Faith with

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others. Many people think that effective 
teaching is about learning to perfect a

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pitch about being a good public speaker 
about crafting good arguments. But in my

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experience it s about learning to listen hear 
and understand a person s needs so that you

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can guide them to fulfilling their aspiration 
so you can answer THEIR questions so you can

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direct them to the wonderful and precious gifts 
in our Faith that intersect with their journeys.

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I remember one learned Baha i once told me 
that Abdul-Baha once said that we should

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reflect on why God gave us two ears but only 
one mouth. I ve never found that reference,

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but it s such an interesting idea, right. That 
we should listen twice as much as we talk.

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But clearly, Abdul-Baha was a master in the art of

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listening. Here s a story that Colby Ives 
shares in his book, Portals to Freedom,

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about his interaction with Abdul-Baha 
which illustrates this. He says:

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I have heard certain people described as 
"good listeners," but never had I imagined

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such a "listener" as Abdu l-Bah . It was more 
than a sympathetic absorption of what the ear

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received. It was as though the two individualities 
became one; as if He so closely identified Himself

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with the one speaking that a merging 
of spirits occurred which made a verbal

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response almost unnecessary, superfluous. As 
I write, the words of Bah u ll h recur to me:

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"When the sincere servant calls to Me 
in prayer I become the very ear with

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which He heareth My reply That was just it! 
Abdu l-Bah seemed to listen with my ears.

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How incredible, right! We have to listen with 
the other person s ears. I love that metaphor.

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And, of course, listening is something 
we can actually train for. Amanda Ripley,

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for example, recommended the 
research of Dr. Graham Bodie who,

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among other things, found that people only 
feel listened to 5% of the time. Just 5%!

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And researchers like Dr. Bodie offer courses 
to help people improve their listening skills.

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You can search for his courses or for hundreds of 
others often called training for active listening.

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So improving our capacity to 
listen and understand others

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is another example of how we should 
approach depolarization as Baha is.

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(musical interlude)

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So we ve covered a lot of ground 
today as we explore Baha i-inspired

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approaches to depolarization. But 
we still have more ground to cover.

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In our next episode, we ll explore two 
more strategies toward depolarization

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based on the scientific literature and 
we ll reflect on how Baha i principles

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might further contribute to these approaches:

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First, how to help break binaries 
narratives that reduce problems to

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conflict between two opposing forces. 
And finally, we ll explore how we can

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enhance the environments under which contact 
between antagonistic groups are facilitated.

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Wow! That s going to be an exciting discussion.

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So don t miss out!

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Join me again next time as we continue our 
conversation for social transformation.

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That s next time on Society Builders.

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(Music). Society Builders pave the way
To a better world to a better day

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00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,920
A united approach to buil-ding a new society

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00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,080
There s a crisis facing humanity
People suffer from a lack of unity

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00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:53,000
It s time for a bet-ter p-ath to a new society

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00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,680
Join our conversation
For social transformation

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00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,440
Society Builders

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00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:18,720
So engage with your local communities
And explore all the exciting possibilities

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00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,440
We can elevate the atmosphere in which we move

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00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,400
The paradigm is shifting
It is so very uplifting

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00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,480
It s a new beat, a new song, a brand new groove

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00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,160
Join our conversation
For social transformation

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00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,840
Society Builders

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00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,800
The Baha i Faith has a lot to say
Helping people to discover a better way

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00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,800
With discourse and social action framed by un-i-ty

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00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,320
Now the time has come to lift our game

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00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:13,840
And apply the teachings of the Greatest Name
And rise to meet the glory of our destiny

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00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,397
Join our conversation
For social transformation

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00:27:16,397 --> 00:27:16,414
Society Builders

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00:27:16,414 --> 00:27:18,560
Join our conversation
For social transformation

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00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:23,240
Society Builders