1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,640 Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa. 2 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:21,400 And my name's Bri. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. 3 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,560 We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,760 Word. And apparently that's controversial. 5 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,760 Get comfy. 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Hello. 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,760 Hello. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:47,760 Welcome to episode eight. 9 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,040 We've got to stop making this joke. It's not a joke. 10 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,000 I think it is episode eight, but it's part two. 11 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Yes. 12 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,640 Continuation. Dreams come true. 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,760 I was literally about to say that. 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:10,160 Submission part two. Dreams come true. 15 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,000 Things get better from here. 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Unknown. 17 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Maybe this part will be less rage. 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,560 Maybe. I doubt it. 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Probably not. 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:26,000 So last week we talked about the big S. 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,000 Stacey. 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:33,360 We talked about submission, which is one that we have been ready to kind of get into for 23 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:34,360 a while. 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,840 It's a tough topic. 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,040 It's tough and yet it's like the most important thing. 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,000 It's the most important and I think it's so misunderstood. 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:51,920 Amongst the Christian community because a lot of people believe in it, but don't live 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:52,920 it. 29 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Right. 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:02:00,120 Well, we've talked about that before with our parents where they would have preached 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,120 it. 32 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,800 Like they would have said, yeah, this is what you're supposed to do as a Christian couple, 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Christian woman. 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:12,400 But really like we never saw our mom was not any sort of submissive wife. 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,120 Mom was just as much of a leader as dad was. 36 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,120 Right. 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,760 And I think that is kind of what shaped you and I into who we are today. 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,040 We're strong, confident ladies. 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,280 She'll like to hear that. 40 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,120 You're welcome, mom. 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,120 Yeah. 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:33,520 I mean, because we saw an example of that, but at the same time, because it was preached 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,440 to us in our home and at church, like not just for mom and dad. 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,440 Yeah, for sure. 45 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,720 From most of the female influences in our lives and a lot of the male influences in 46 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,640 our lives too. 47 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:55,520 I think at least for me, that's what shaped how I approached relationships and marriage 48 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,560 in the beginning anyway, before I kind of started to branch off on my own. 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Yeah. 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,120 So last week was a little bit of a downer because we just were full of, as Taylor such 51 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,680 as a female rage, the musical. 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,240 She's trying to trademark that. 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,240 She should. 54 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:13,240 That's pretty good. 55 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,120 If she does though, we might have to cut that part out. 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,120 Sorry, Taylor. 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,720 I'm sure she's listening. 58 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,760 I'm sure she is. 59 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:29,120 So we talked through a little bit, kind of the main complimentarian points, I think. 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,200 For arguments that submission was pre-fault. 61 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,960 Right. 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:42,000 So the submission started like God was, when God planned out the human race, that he planned 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,600 it with female submission in the perfect order of things. 64 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:54,000 And really in order, I really think in order for the whole argument of wives should submit 65 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:02,040 to their husbands in everything all the time, only works if it did precede the fall. 66 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:08,480 So again, churchy terms, but if it happened before sin entered the world. 67 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,120 So we just kind of went through a lot of the main arguments. 68 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,080 We worked through a specific article, but it addressed all of the main things that we've 69 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,080 heard at least, right? 70 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:19,080 Yeah. 71 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,000 So today we're going to go from the opposite perspective. 72 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure if this is a two parter episode or a three parter 73 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,240 episode. 74 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,080 I think it's an ongoing conversation. 75 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:37,400 So these will be the two first introductions to the topic maybe on the podcast, but I think 76 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,160 that's a topic that is going to spend the lifetime of you and I talking about this nonsense. 77 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:47,280 I think it's going to spend our lifetime. 78 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,000 And anyone who chooses to interact with us. 79 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Sorry. 80 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Prepare yourselves. 81 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Anyone who is obnoxious. 82 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:03,040 So one of the, I guess, bloggers that I follow on Facebook, I'm actually not sure which one 83 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,040 it was. 84 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,000 I'll just pick that up and maybe post it on the Insta. 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:14,880 If you're not following us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, I was going to say like 86 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,240 Carrier Pigeon, Smoke Signal. 87 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,240 You should! 88 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,280 Yeah, you should definitely follow us on Carrier Pigeon. 89 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:21,280 We're great at that. 90 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:25,520 Very occasionally we post something very funny or inspirational. 91 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,640 Mostly it's funny. 92 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,960 But yeah, any of those we are more of a dot podcast, right? 93 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,040 And then TikTok is... 94 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:37,040 It's confusing. 95 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,000 I'm sure if you looked up like we are more podcasts, we'd pop up, but it's like we dot 96 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,000 more... 97 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,000 Nope. 98 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,000 Did that? 99 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,080 This is the second time I've heard that. 100 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:47,520 I think it is. 101 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,520 We dot are dot more four. 102 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,320 Okay, I think it's technically the name. 103 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,020 And Bri posts some good stuff over there. 104 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:55,020 So definitely check it out. 105 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:58,360 We post previews there a lot. 106 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,360 So that's always fun. 107 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:06,000 You can kind of see what insanity we're about to see before you jump in. 108 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,680 Or you could see our faces. 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,760 Our beautiful, beautiful faces. 110 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,520 They're so beautiful. 111 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,280 Mostly my face on TikTok. 112 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:16,080 I haven't figured TikTok out yet. 113 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,080 I'm a little vain. 114 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,400 Yeah, well, we know that. 115 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,040 They've been listening. 116 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,920 If you haven't been listening, go back and you can see how vain Bri is. 117 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:26,920 I think we both are. 118 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,560 I don't know what you're talking about. 119 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,240 I am humble as much as you possibly could be. 120 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,760 God hears your lies and he will smite you. 121 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:43,040 So today anyway, I feel like every time I try and get us back on track, I say, so... 122 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,040 So today! 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,520 I think you should try. 124 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Get us back on track, Bri. 125 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,620 If I were a train, what would I do? 126 00:06:52,620 --> 00:06:59,880 So today, we're going to go over a different article that argues that submission was not 127 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,560 God's perfect design for humanity. 128 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:09,440 Yeah, that women specifically submitting to their husbands wasn't God's perfect plan. 129 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:10,960 Well, there you go. 130 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Because I think, you know, when we talk... 131 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,480 The word submission is a rough one in general. 132 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,280 It just doesn't come across very well. 133 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,180 But when you look at that, at the section in Ephesians that we're about to go through, 134 00:07:24,180 --> 00:07:32,120 you can see that before God tells women to submit to their husbands, he tells couples 135 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,440 to submit to one another. 136 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:40,440 So I think that's where you really can see, for lack of a better phrase, God's perfect 137 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,120 plan for humanity is to both submit to one another. 138 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:50,720 And we've put... there's a lot to this, and we'll get into it, but we've put a paragraph 139 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:57,000 break in there between submit to one another and then the section about God's instructions 140 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,140 to women and God's instructions to men. 141 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:01,520 But the paragraph break was not there before. 142 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,280 There's something that we added. 143 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,240 Yeah, translators added it. 144 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:06,240 And you have to ask... 145 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,240 That we, you and I. 146 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,240 That's true. 147 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,840 But you have to ask the question, what was the motivation behind adding a paragraph break 148 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,360 there, adding a chapter break there? 149 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Because all of the chapters and the verse numbers and things like that, we put in. 150 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,640 Again, not you and I. 151 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,240 I don't think I'm quite that educated. 152 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,240 I'm not. 153 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,480 I was an art major. 154 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,520 But there's going to be certain motivations there. 155 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,480 And depending on who is translating, you're going to get different biases. 156 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,480 Biases? 157 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,480 Again, I was an art major. 158 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:39,920 You were the English major. 159 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,640 Sorry, I still don't know. 160 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:48,040 All right, so this article, I want to give you the website name, but again, I don't know 161 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,680 how to say her name. 162 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:51,320 It looks like Marge. 163 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,600 It's Marge, but then I think it's Mausko. 164 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,280 Is what I'm going to go with. 165 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,280 Okay. 166 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:58,760 We can link it. 167 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:04,600 The title of it is The Chiastic Structure of Ephesians 5, 22 to 23. 168 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,640 Or to 33, I'm sorry. 169 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:07,640 About a mouthful. 170 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:08,640 Holy cow. 171 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:09,800 It is quite. 172 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:17,880 But essentially she is talking about Ephesians 5, which is, I think they call them the household 173 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:18,880 codes. 174 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:19,880 That sounds right. 175 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:20,880 Yeah. 176 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:26,320 So it's essentially like Paul, because it wasn't Jesus talking here, it's Paul talking 177 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:35,040 here to the Ephesian church and he's telling husbands and wives what they should be doing. 178 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,240 Now preface all of that by saying husbands and wives in Roman society. 179 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,920 So this is the segment where Paul is telling husbands and wives how they should behave 180 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,960 towards one another, what God's plan is for them and what he wants from them. 181 00:09:52,960 --> 00:10:00,440 However, Paul is talking to people in the Roman world, to people in first century Roman 182 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,640 societies, which again are very patriarchal. 183 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:11,200 There are actual laws telling women you better do what your husband says or literal death 184 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,200 penalty. 185 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,200 Right. 186 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,660 So keep that in mind. 187 00:10:14,660 --> 00:10:19,480 So I'm going to read the segment here. 188 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,880 So this is Ephesians 5, 22 through 33. 189 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:30,080 And so this does cut out the part where it says to submit to one another, but it's important 190 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,440 to read it like this in the context of her blog, because she's talking about something 191 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:40,160 called chiastic structure, which is super interesting. 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:41,680 I had not heard about this before. 193 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:46,000 And again, I was an English major, so maybe I just failed that class. 194 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:53,520 Marge says that Paul in this section is using a common literary device that can be found 195 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,880 in the Hebrew Bible and in the New Testament, and that he uses it several times throughout 196 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:58,880 his writing. 197 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,080 I think Haiku. 198 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,440 Yeah. 199 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,880 And this to me informs a lot of why Paul seems confusing. 200 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,640 I'm gonna be honest, Paul is a confusing man. 201 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:11,640 Yeah. 202 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,800 But I think a big part of it is what she's saying here is Paul is writing in a structure 203 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:21,040 that's common for them that day that we're not using now. 204 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,040 No. 205 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,440 So it's called a chiasm. 206 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,880 And essentially it formed like the sentence, it's hard to explain over podcasts where I 207 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:34,820 can't just like show you a piece of paper, but the sentences form an X shaped pattern. 208 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:40,240 So the thoughts are stated sequentially up until the main point. 209 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,540 So you'll have like thought, thought, thought kind of going up a pyramid, then you hit the 210 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:47,500 main point, and then you come back down the pyramid. 211 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:49,600 So the main point is like the cross of that. 212 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:50,600 Yeah. 213 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,960 So it's like the middle, the middle of it. 214 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,800 So she says that in a chiasm, the main point or highlighted idea is often at the center 215 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,000 of a passage. 216 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,320 So that's what's happening here. 217 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,160 So we're going to read specifically from this. 218 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:10,720 So it says, wives submit or commit yourselves depending on your translation to your own 219 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:17,840 husbands to your own husbands, not your siblings, husbands, not your neighbor's husbands, not 220 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,800 that guy down the street that makes you feel weird. 221 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,800 Thank you. 222 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,480 As to the Lord for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ also is the head of 223 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:27,480 the church. 224 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:32,600 He himself is the savior of the body, but as the church submits slash commits herself, 225 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,200 herself, herself to Christ. 226 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,960 So also the wives to their husbands and everything. 227 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:44,040 Husbands love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for her 228 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,360 that he mates, he might sanctify her having cleansed her by the washing of water with 229 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:49,600 the word. 230 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:56,000 So this now we've hit the main point and that is that he might present to himself the church 231 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,080 in all her glory. 232 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,840 So the he in this situation is Christ. 233 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,840 Hmm. 234 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:01,840 Christ. 235 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Yes. 236 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,640 Not that guy down the street that makes you feel weird. 237 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:06,640 Nope, not that guy. 238 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:07,640 Oh, all right. 239 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,000 So now we're coming back down the pyramid and it says having no spot or wrinkle or any 240 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,000 such thing, but that she would be holy and blameless. 241 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,360 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. 242 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,600 He who loves his own wife loves himself for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes 243 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:30,320 and cherishes it just as Christ also the church because we are members of his body for this 244 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,760 cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall 245 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,720 become one flesh. 246 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,900 And then she has another main point because it does another little bloop. 247 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:46,920 This mystery is great, but I am speaking concerning Christ and to the church. 248 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,360 Nevertheless, let each individual among you also love his own wife as himself and the 249 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,520 wife is to respect her husband. 250 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,960 So the way that this pyramid functions, so you've got that main point in the center, 251 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,200 but then the others line up with each other. 252 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:11,880 So point one on the pyramid lines up with the last point on the other side of the pyramid. 253 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,280 Point two lines up with the next one. 254 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,280 Between bricks and the ones directly across from each other line up so they can kind of 255 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,520 inform each other. 256 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:29,280 Which again is a big part of why this passage is confusing. 257 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,600 Because it jumps back and forth from talking to wives and then suddenly talking to husbands 258 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,400 and then suddenly talking about Christ and the church. 259 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:41,920 And then like it feels disorganized to us here in 2024. 260 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,440 Is that what year we're in? 261 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,240 Is it 2024? 262 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,240 It's unclear to me. 263 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,280 I'm pretty sure. 264 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,040 So she says that when you can see the structure of the passage, you can see the points a little 265 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,780 bit more clearly. 266 00:14:55,780 --> 00:15:00,500 So it again informs everything and helps you to understand. 267 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:06,880 So first of all, Christ lowered himself down to our level because it says he became human, 268 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:12,400 gave himself up for the church, died on the cross, all the things. 269 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:19,840 Now if this passage is saying to men, do as Christ did, Christ lowered himself. 270 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,600 I just want to like pause on that for a minute. 271 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,040 These people are living in a very patriarchal society. 272 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:32,680 Men have a much, much higher status than women. 273 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:39,280 And Christ, who you're supposed to be exemplifying, lowered himself. 274 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,200 Let's just put a pin in that. 275 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,320 Yeah, the god of the creation. 276 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,360 He created you, me, that guy down the street. 277 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:59,480 And brought himself down to our level in human form. 278 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:00,480 And we'll circle back to that. 279 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:06,400 But I just want you to like, you know, keep that little thought right there in your head. 280 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,400 And think about that in context to, I don't know, certain pastors, certain men in your 281 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:12,400 life. 282 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:19,520 So she says, but even more than that, even more than lowering himself, which I mean, 283 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:27,080 yes, they were living in a very patriarchal society and men had a higher status, but the 284 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,440 chasm between men and women is a lot less than the chasm between Christ and us. 285 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,120 So remember that Christ lowered himself a whole bunch more. 286 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:46,400 But beyond that, she says that more than lowering himself, Christ elevates the church. 287 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,280 So yes, Christ came to where we are. 288 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,940 He met us where we are, even though he had so much more authority, so much more power, 289 00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:59,280 so much more, he brought himself to where we are. 290 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,840 And then from there, he put us up on his shoulders and lifted us up as high as we could go. 291 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,760 I like that visual. 292 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,840 And he did that by sanctifying, cleansing and glorifying the church, right? 293 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,000 So that's what Paul is talking about. 294 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:24,580 And Paul is comparing husbands to this story right here. 295 00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:29,040 Now one thing that I've heard, and this is a little bit of an offshoot, but I hear this 296 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,800 all the time. 297 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,400 These biblical wonderful men will say, well, I would die for my wife. 298 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,400 I would die for the church. 299 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,760 Oh yes, I would love to dive into it. 300 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,040 It's just, it's the dumbest argument. 301 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,200 I was actually thinking, this is one of my shower thoughts this morning. 302 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:52,460 It is so much easier to think like, of course I would die for you. 303 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:53,920 That is the easy way out. 304 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:54,920 Oh yeah. 305 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,520 To end it all and be done. 306 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,000 It is so much harder to live for someone. 307 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,720 You can't care for someone, like for example, on the plane, put on your own oxygen mask 308 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,120 before you put on someone else's. 309 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:14,120 It's a lot harder because you can't care for someone else without caring for yourself and 310 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:15,120 making sure you're okay. 311 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,120 Does that make sense? 312 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,600 I think we bounced to do a different topic for a second there. 313 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Oh well, you can cut that part out. 314 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,080 That was my shower thought. 315 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:29,660 But your point is super valid because living for someone is really difficult. 316 00:18:29,660 --> 00:18:37,040 Just like with my kids, I can tell you that I love my kids enough that if a bus is barreling 317 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,920 down the road towards them, I'm going to shove them out of the way even if it means I'm going 318 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,920 to get hit by the bus. 319 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:47,080 However, that's not, it's a one moment thing. 320 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:54,240 It's a one moment decision as opposed to every day when they wake me up at seven o'clock, 321 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,760 not getting frustrated with them and letting them climb in my bed and climb on top of me 322 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,360 and say, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, 323 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:07,000 and living every day with them in mind, with their best interests in mind. 324 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:14,040 So I think the point there and on top of that, what a stupid thing to say. 325 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,360 I would die for you. 326 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,840 In what scenario are you being asked to die? 327 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,160 Alyssa, I would catch a grenade for you. 328 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,880 Throw my head on a blade for you. 329 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,240 I don't think people are going to know that song anymore. 330 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,240 I was from high school. 331 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,240 It's Bruno Mars. 332 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,240 Look it up. 333 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,040 Don't though, because he's kind of the worst. 334 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,640 He is the worst. 335 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,800 But it's just how often are you being asked to jump in front of a bullet for somebody 336 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,800 else? 337 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,800 No, rarely. 338 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,800 You're just not. 339 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,880 And you know that. 340 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:53,000 The husbands who are saying, well, I'm fulfilling my calling from God because I'm willing to 341 00:19:53,000 --> 00:20:01,280 die for my wife, have simplified it to a level that is blasphemous. 342 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,620 I mean really. 343 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:10,400 That's asking absolutely nothing of you because you know and I know and your wife knows and 344 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:16,880 the creepy guy down the street knows that you're not going to be asked to die for her. 345 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:24,480 Maybe like maybe in some random 1% chance scenario. 346 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:30,120 But 99.99999999% of the time. 347 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:31,120 That's not happening. 348 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,920 So stop being stupid. 349 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,400 Don't offer to die for your wife. 350 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,280 Live for her. 351 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,280 Every day. 352 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Live for her best interest. 353 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,560 Wake up and think, how can I show up for this person more? 354 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,520 How can I serve her today? 355 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,520 And that goes for wives too. 356 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,560 I'm not saying this specifically for two men. 357 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,120 Well it says submit to each other. 358 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,120 Exactly. 359 00:20:56,120 --> 00:21:00,120 It's just kind of the point that we're making here is wake up and serve one another because 360 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:06,480 Christ spent his life in humble service to the church. 361 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,360 And if that's what we're supposed to compare ourselves to, if that's what we're supposed 362 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:10,580 to be. 363 00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:11,840 And also offshoot. 364 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,280 I don't mean to say like, well I did the dishes for her. 365 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,280 Right. 366 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:17,280 No. 367 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,280 It's not her job. 368 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,120 It's both of yours job. 369 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,120 Both of your jobs. 370 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:25,120 Be a partnership. 371 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,120 Yeah. 372 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,120 Work together. 373 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:28,120 A little tit for tat. 374 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:29,120 I'm gonna cut that part out. 375 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:32,120 That's a quote from the Corpse Bride. 376 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:33,120 Great. 377 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,840 So anyway that was us just chatting. 378 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,880 Let's reel it back in. 379 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,640 Got a little off topic there. 380 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,520 So what she says is that when you interpret this passage through traditional gender roles, 381 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:57,280 so the expectation of like Christian conservative gender roles, the message of Christ lowering 382 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,000 himself and elevating the church really gets lost. 383 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,620 And I love how she says it because she says this glorious message is lost or overshadowed. 384 00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:13,180 So we've heard and we mentioned this in the last podcast, men will say things about a 385 00:22:13,180 --> 00:22:19,900 submissive wife and a submissive marriage like, oh it's this beautiful picture of Christ 386 00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:21,960 and the church. 387 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:29,740 But here she's turning that completely on its head and she says here is a glorious message 388 00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:39,180 of Christ and the church, Christ lowering himself and elevating the church, not Christ 389 00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:46,320 staying at his high societally expected position and expecting the church to stay where she 390 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,760 is. 391 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:54,080 Sizzle. 392 00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:04,080 So think about that, he's elevating the church, making all their dreams come true, right? 393 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:10,800 Rather than saying like, you might have dreams but mine are more important and you actually 394 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,400 don't get to achieve your dreams, you get to help me achieve mine. 395 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,400 Yep. 396 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:23,520 Might be thinking about Harrison Bucker. 397 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,360 So I just think that's a beautiful point. 398 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:34,240 I think we've heard that traditional stereotype so many times and I just absolutely love how 399 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,860 she words it. 400 00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:42,520 So she talks through a little bit of Ephesians and then making the church holy and blameless, 401 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,080 things like that. 402 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:51,520 And I think we've talked through a lot of this just in our random chatting. 403 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:57,440 But she says that you need to note that Paul doesn't ask husbands to give up their lives 404 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,440 for their wives. 405 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,880 Like just make that little note. 406 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,600 I know we kind of made that point a second ago but Paul doesn't make that point either. 407 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,040 Right, it's something that we've just made up on our own. 408 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,720 Because we will say, well Christ did give up his life for the church. 409 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:12,720 Okay. 410 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,880 Well it's like that toxic masculinity. 411 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,880 They love talking about death. 412 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,840 Yay, death. 413 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,400 That makes me more manly if I'm willing to die. 414 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,080 But she does talk about that. 415 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:34,960 She says neither death or dying or the crucifixion or the cross are explicitly mentioned in Ephesians 416 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,960 5. 417 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:41,880 And there are enough explicitly mentioned things that Paul would have said that if that 418 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,160 was the point. 419 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,160 And he doesn't. 420 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:51,880 He gives them actual, humble, real instructions of like here's who Christ was. 421 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,540 I knew him. 422 00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:57,220 You knew him from his writings, his teachings, his whatever. 423 00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:59,480 Do that. 424 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,760 Stop being dumb. 425 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,000 She also quotes Ephesians 5, 2. 426 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,040 So that's a little bit earlier in the passage but it's important to read the whole passage. 427 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,840 I would encourage you to open up Ephesians, read the whole chapter. 428 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:17,600 But Ephesians 5, 2, Paul tells the Ephesians to walk in love as Christ also loved us and 429 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,680 gave himself for us a sacrificial and fragrant offering to God. 430 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,220 I think that's such an important message too because you look at the message of wives submit 431 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,640 to your husbands all of the time. 432 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,180 There's very little love in that. 433 00:25:33,180 --> 00:25:35,120 Love never gets mentioned. 434 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,120 No. 435 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:41,920 It says love your wives like Christ loved the church but the message is more geared 436 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,380 towards women. 437 00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:47,020 Put aside your dreams. 438 00:25:47,020 --> 00:25:49,440 Pick up the broom. 439 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,680 And that's your life and that's all you're ever going to amount to is less than. 440 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,840 This is kind of an offshoot and we might cut this but I've had this conversation with 441 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,640 many, many family members. 442 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,840 But one of them that sometimes we agree on these things, sometimes we don't. 443 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:15,240 But he had said that it's never a man's job to tell a woman what her job is, what God 444 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,240 is telling her to do. 445 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,160 I find that so interesting because it's always, not always, but often male pastors getting 446 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,640 up and talking about submission and telling a wife what she is supposed to be doing. 447 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,520 Pointing out the speck in someone else's eye instead of looking at their own. 448 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,960 You're supposed to submit, you're supposed to do this. 449 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,520 And not saying like, hey let's just keep to ourselves and whatever God tells me to do 450 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,240 I'll do and whatever God tells you to do you should do. 451 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,420 Because I believe that I have a relationship with God and you have a relationship with 452 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:53,000 God and I respect both of our relationships separately. 453 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,080 And that they can be different. 454 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,880 That my reality isn't everybody's reality. 455 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,360 And we say that all the time. 456 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,840 It's so important to remember. 457 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,240 I feel like I say that four times an episode. 458 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,480 She gets tattooed on our chest. 459 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,240 That wouldn't be weird at all. 460 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,880 But one of the really important, so she makes a footnote on this and we can circle back 461 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,880 later, but she says an important note is that husbands cannot cleanse or sanctify their 462 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,560 wives. 463 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,560 I love that. 464 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,400 Say it again for the people in the back. 465 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,200 So I'm just going to read this directly. 466 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,600 I just love it. 467 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,980 Note also that husbands cannot cleanse or sanctify their Christian wives. 468 00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:32,880 That's the work of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. 469 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,640 Husbands are not Jesus. 470 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,080 If you guys could, I'm like gesturing with my hands. 471 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:47,120 Which I think so often in the conservative world, men forget that. 472 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,120 Oh yeah. 473 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:51,320 They would never say it, but they forget it. 474 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,060 But some of them do say it. 475 00:27:53,060 --> 00:27:58,440 So she posts a video on this article and I will do my best to link this article. 476 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:05,240 But she posts a video where this man directly says that the husband's role is to sanctify 477 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,340 his bride and make her presentable before Christ. 478 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:09,880 You cannot. 479 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:10,880 If that's right. 480 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,080 And she makes this point. 481 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,400 If that's right. 482 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,920 If that's really true. 483 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,920 What about single women? 484 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,920 Yeah. 485 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,440 What does that mean for me? 486 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,440 You can't be sanctified. 487 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,440 You are screwed. 488 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,440 Find a man. 489 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,440 I'm going down. 490 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:32,600 And what does it mean about widowed women? 491 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:39,160 What does it mean about women who marry non-Christian men? 492 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,080 Because we've had examples of that in our lives. 493 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,080 Absolutely. 494 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:50,920 Or what about men who seemed like they were following God and then didn't? 495 00:28:50,920 --> 00:29:00,120 She says that the Bible teaches that Jesus is the savior and sanctifier of both men and 496 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,120 women. 497 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,120 And I mean, you can see that throughout the whole world. 498 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,120 Yeah. 499 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,600 Jesus is the savior of the world. 500 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,960 Not that creepy guy down the street. 501 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,880 Or the creepy guy you married. 502 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,600 If you married a creepy guy. 503 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,560 Or the nice guy that you married. 504 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Yeah. 505 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,560 It doesn't matter. 506 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,560 It doesn't matter. 507 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,480 But frankly, let's flip it on its head a little bit. 508 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,920 Do you want that responsibility? 509 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,440 I think we brought up this point in the last podcast too. 510 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:38,680 Men, do you want that responsibility of sanctifying your wife for Christ? 511 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:45,600 Because I can tell you the only way that that happened for humanity was Jesus coming down, 512 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,520 getting off his throne, or your high horse. 513 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,520 Completely blameless. 514 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,520 Sinless. 515 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,520 Yep. 516 00:29:53,520 --> 00:30:01,720 Living a life, living a full entire life in service to his people, with zero other priorities. 517 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,600 No other work. 518 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,760 No spouse. 519 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:05,760 No kids. 520 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,880 No other priorities. 521 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:08,880 And then dying for it. 522 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,880 Say your thought. 523 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,600 Why is it okay for Jesus to be single but not me? 524 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,880 Well, the church, you're a girl. 525 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,880 I don't know. 526 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,480 I got nothing for you. 527 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,360 That's a different podcast, Brianna. 528 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,600 That is one that we should do. 529 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,600 Yes, it is. 530 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,320 Well, we wanted to do Single Women in the Church. 531 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:35,800 So this footnote, honestly, I could do a whole podcast. 532 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,800 I could do a whole podcast on the things in this footnote. 533 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,720 I think we really could. 534 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,720 But one of the other points that she makes, and I just want to bring it up, it kind of 535 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,680 is a little bit of a different thought. 536 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:57,720 She says that the idea that the husband is the final decision maker has no biblical basis. 537 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,720 Tell me more, Alyssa. 538 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,200 I would love to, Brianna. 539 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,480 Thank you for asking. 540 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800 You're welcome. 541 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,420 She says the only biblical precedent that she can find is in 1 Corinthians 7.5. 542 00:31:09,420 --> 00:31:11,040 So let's look that up real quick. 543 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,040 She links to it. 544 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,440 And I just want to point out the difference between this article and the article that 545 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,200 we read from on the last podcast. 546 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680 The amount of references. 547 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,960 And research. 548 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:23,960 So much. 549 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,120 There are so many different biblical passages here. 550 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,120 She's got so much research. 551 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,640 I mean, this woman, this is a research essay. 552 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,360 If she turned this in, she'd get an A. 553 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,520 Yeah, it's not just like, here's a verse, but this is what I got from this verse. 554 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:47,160 No, it's like, here's the biblical research and history behind this verse. 555 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,160 Exactly. 556 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,040 And the other article just, it just didn't have any of it. 557 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,240 He would reference an occasional verse, and I think we talked about the verses that he 558 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,680 did reference, but it was mostly specifically from this passage in Ephesians. 559 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,520 And it's all just his thoughts about it. 560 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:03,520 Yeah. 561 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,440 This is what I interpreted, and this is what I think. 562 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,920 Which again, if this works in your life, like I guess, have a great time if your wife is 563 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:20,200 chill with it, but don't put it on an entire gender. 564 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,200 No. 565 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,120 And certainly don't put it on an entire gender and then say it was God's idea. 566 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,880 Because that's a recipe for abuse. 567 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,680 Cough, cough, cough, cough. 568 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,080 So do you need a Kleenex? 569 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,080 Yeah. 570 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,080 People need for coughs, right? 571 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,880 Kleenexes. 572 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,760 So she says the only reference that she can find for that is 1 Corinthians 7 and 5, and 573 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,640 I'm going to read that for you. 574 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,480 It says, do not deprive one another except when you agree for a time to devote yourself 575 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,280 to prayer, then come together again. 576 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,160 Otherwise Satan may tempt you because of your lack of control, of self control. 577 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,160 So I'm pretty sure this, I'm just talking about sex. 578 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,560 Oh, baby. 579 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,320 I actually want to look this up though in like the NLT. 580 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:11,040 I actually love what that says though, like, because just for me personally, like being 581 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:18,800 in small groups with women who were married, they would say, well, if we get into an argument 582 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,840 and we can't come to a decision, submission to me means that my husband gets just the 583 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:25,840 final say. 584 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,840 Mm-hmm. 585 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,640 Rather than stopping that argument right there and both praying about it. 586 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:31,640 Absolutely. 587 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,200 That's a really good point. 588 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,560 And assuming that God is not the God of confusion and that you both have good relationships 589 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,560 with him and that he will lead you to the same conclusion. 590 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,560 Right. 591 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,560 That's a really good point. 592 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,560 Yeah, thank you. 593 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:45,560 I thought about that. 594 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:46,560 It is about sex. 595 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,560 Baby. 596 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:48,560 This verse. 597 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,680 The NLT says, do not deprive each other of sexual relations unless you both agree to 598 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,760 refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely 599 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,120 to prayer. 600 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:05,320 But the reason that she references that verse in particular is that it's talking about husbands 601 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,920 and wives making a mutual decision together. 602 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,320 So whatever it's about, it's not necessarily, I mean, it is specifically talking about that, 603 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:21,680 but another big S. But coming together and making a decision together. 604 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:31,320 However, make a note, it says together, not and husbands tell your wives they're going 605 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,420 to do this, which again could lead to abuse. 606 00:34:35,420 --> 00:34:38,320 Literally is abuse. 607 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,440 So that's kind of a little bit of that footnote and that's a good one to go into. 608 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,440 I really like it. 609 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,440 Okay. 610 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,880 So going back to that chiastic structure that we talked about earlier. 611 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,880 Full circle. 612 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:51,880 Are you proud? 613 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,880 No. 614 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,880 You should probably be. 615 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,640 I'm actually offended. 616 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,040 So that means that, and it's hard to, again, it's hard to explain without like having a 617 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,040 visual. 618 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,720 If we had an actual like YouTube video, I'd pop up a slide. 619 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,520 Oh, like a real professor. 620 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,520 Yeah. 621 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,520 I was impressed. 622 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:16,520 Yes. 623 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,520 They love slides. 624 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:29,120 Anyway, you can tell when we're being foolish. 625 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,320 It gets loud. 626 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:38,000 So she, she letters the sections so that you can kind of see them ascending and descending 627 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,880 so that you can see which verses are kind of matched up in that chiastic structure. 628 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:49,640 So she says that Paul links submission with respect in those, the first like the A, she 629 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:50,640 calls them the A sentences. 630 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,880 So that's those first kind of pillar blocks there. 631 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,360 So then that means that submission and respect are connected. 632 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:07,440 Now she points out that the word for submit is not always in all of the ancient manuscripts 633 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,560 that contain Ephesians 522. 634 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,080 Tell me more, Alyssa. 635 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:20,560 That's really all I know a whole lot about that, but it's just an interesting point that 636 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,360 again, it calls translators into question because they're pulling from all kinds of 637 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,360 ancient manuscripts. 638 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:35,360 But also you think like the different translations are all like, they all have a, there's an 639 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,720 agenda. 640 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,040 They're skewed a little differently. 641 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Yeah. 642 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:46,840 Like KJV, ESV, they're all, they have an agenda to some degree. 643 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,480 And you can look that up and actually prove that. 644 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:57,600 So the King James version was written because King James needed a Bible that held up the 645 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,560 monarch. 646 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:05,000 Just knowing this from history classes and my Bible classes in college, the Bible, there 647 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,680 was a study Bible at the time. 648 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,880 I think it was the Geneva Bible. 649 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,400 I'm not a hundred percent sure. 650 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,560 That was the most popular choice at the time. 651 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,220 And it was very down on like the government, monarchy, whatever. 652 00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:22,120 And so he needed something that was going to religiously tell people that they had to 653 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,320 follow him. 654 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,040 So he had the KJV commissioned. 655 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,920 It's a great way to manipulate people. 656 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,920 Absolutely. 657 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:30,920 Religion always has been. 658 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,780 Tell people that God wants this of you rather than I want this of you. 659 00:37:36,780 --> 00:37:39,560 You're going to get a lot more pull that way. 660 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:45,160 And then you can look at the ESV as well, which was written in response to the NIV, 661 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,320 I believe. 662 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,840 The NIV was written and put a lot of more gender neutral terms because it was, they 663 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,560 were translating it that way because they were looking at the original manuscripts and 664 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,780 they're saying, oh, hey, this doesn't mean a masculine term or a feminine term. 665 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:04,400 It means both. 666 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,240 So the NIV translators wrote it that way. 667 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:15,120 The ESV was written because they looked at the NIV and they said, no, absolutely not. 668 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,200 You're taking gender out of the Bible. 669 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,720 How dare you? 670 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:26,440 And so they wrote it in a much more extreme male based way. 671 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,400 So you can see that happening all over the place. 672 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,240 So that's just kind of what she's saying here is like in a lot of the ancient manuscripts, 673 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,200 the word submit is not there. 674 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:41,160 So it's just, that's why when she quotes it up here, she says submit slash commit yourselves 675 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,800 because that would be the other translation. 676 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:53,000 I just really wish that in all of this, people would look at each other and say, God created 677 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,540 you and God created me in love. 678 00:38:57,540 --> 00:38:59,200 So let's just love each other. 679 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:06,560 Let's quit trying to put each other down, trying to argue for who's more in power. 680 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,480 It's just really frustrating because I don't think that's what Jesus would want. 681 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,560 No, but that's even how we structure our whole churches. 682 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,380 You've got the pastor up here and then you've got the elders and you've got the deacons 683 00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:22,200 and then you've got the volunteers, but only these volunteers are the important volunteers. 684 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,320 And then it's a show. 685 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,960 It is oftentimes. 686 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,200 And not only like the leaders of the church, but even people who go to church, it's about 687 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,560 like what car are you driving? 688 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,880 What are you wearing to church? 689 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,360 How many sports are your kids in? 690 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,160 How many kids do you have? 691 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,160 Are you single? 692 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,160 Are you married? 693 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,740 Are you with someone? 694 00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:44,720 There's just so many ways to judge people. 695 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:52,680 Well, as people, we love to be the most in power, the most influential. 696 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,800 And unfortunately that seeps into our churches and we don't even, I don't want to say we 697 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,520 don't realize that, we don't want to admit to it. 698 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,400 I guess is better. 699 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:10,600 So anyway, so she says that the reason that you'll see submit in pretty much every translation, 700 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:15,400 not every translation, but a lot of them is because their translators are inferring it 701 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:23,800 from the preceding verse, so 21, where Paul calls for mutual submission among all believers, 702 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,120 meaning Christian brothers and sisters, etc. 703 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:36,360 And then she says that the entire household code is introduced by a call to mutual submission. 704 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,480 So submit slash commit yourselves to one another out of reverence to Christ. 705 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,440 I just want to make it clear as a single woman. 706 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:50,400 I have no problem submitting to Christ who died for my sins, who made it heaven available 707 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,560 to me. 708 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:58,720 I do not want to replace that submission directly to God when and if I get married to a human 709 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,440 man. 710 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,400 I don't. 711 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,420 And unfortunately, this is like kind of off topic too, but like, I look at the different 712 00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:14,540 people that I've dated and I've dated both Christian men and non-Christian men. 713 00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:19,920 And I got more love and respect from the non-Christian people. 714 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,360 How sad. 715 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,560 Yeah. 716 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,600 Because the Christian men that I've dated were interested in power. 717 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,040 Whereas like the non-Christian guy that I dated, he just took my feelings into consideration 718 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,440 way more than the Christian men ever have. 719 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:41,000 Well, because I mean, you would hope and society at large, particularly from what I've heard 720 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:48,920 in online dating can definitely be very like toxic masculinity stuff going on there. 721 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:58,120 But at the same time, like the not crappy guys are now being taught, hey, respect women, 722 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,560 hey, take their feelings into account, hey, be not a jerk. 723 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,560 Women like humans. 724 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,520 But then you contrast that with men in the church who are being taught that they need 725 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,560 to be the leader. 726 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,560 And dominant. 727 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,560 Yeah. 728 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,560 They need to take charge. 729 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,840 They need to make all the decisions. 730 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,360 And if they don't, they are not following God's plan for them. 731 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,360 Right. 732 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,360 Right. 733 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,360 Which is a lot of pressure on them too. 734 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:31,240 And even the ones that, and you know, we talked about people preaching this, but not living 735 00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:38,480 it maybe, and this is just totally me in my own head, so no research based at all. 736 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,840 But maybe for men in that situation, the reason why they're preaching it is because if they 737 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:49,160 don't, then they feel like they're not fulfilling God's plan for them. 738 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,160 Right. 739 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,480 Very true. 740 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:58,800 And I think that's an important point to make too, is that we recognize that like men struggle 741 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,800 with a lot of this stuff too. 742 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,960 Sure. 743 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:10,320 This is not, I mean the submission one is kind of female based, but dealing with persecution 744 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:17,480 within the church, dealing with manipulation within the church, and the changing of God's 745 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,640 word and things like that, this is not specific to women. 746 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:26,560 That'd actually be a great idea to have Nathan come on the podcast one time, or your husband 747 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:27,560 come on the podcast. 748 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,920 We've said his name before. 749 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:36,400 Because I don't know what men go through, I just know what me as a woman, what I go 750 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,400 through. 751 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:44,040 Well and it's super important to say, I don't understand your experience. 752 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,720 I have not been there. 753 00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:52,280 Well even like someone who was listening to our podcast, her and her husband, he was saying 754 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,600 I didn't know women were being taught that. 755 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,200 I don't know what the men are being taught either. 756 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,200 Exactly. 757 00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,200 Well we don't get to go to the men's conference. 758 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,200 Well we're not invited. 759 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,720 We don't get to go golfing and shooting and… 760 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,200 Have strippers on stage apparently. 761 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,200 I was going to say taxidermy. 762 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,200 I don't know. 763 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,240 What do men do? 764 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:18,960 So Brianna's idea of traditional man and womanhood, women embroider. 765 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,600 Men do taxidermy. 766 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,600 Is that not right? 767 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:23,600 What? 768 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:29,640 I found a book the other day at the book sale that was all about embroidery. 769 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:30,640 I wanted to… 770 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,240 I think that would be a great podcast, just me reading that book. 771 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,040 Yeah I think people would love that. 772 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,040 Traditional womanhood. 773 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,160 I don't think anyone's arguing that traditional womanhood means embroidery. 774 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,600 I think that's just you. 775 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:46,600 Women love to do that. 776 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,600 No they don't. 777 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:48,600 No one loves to embroider. 778 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,600 Did you ever see Bride and Prejudice? 779 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,240 They sit there and they're like why are we doing this? 780 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:58,600 Because women embroider and they play piano and they do… 781 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,880 We're at 53 minutes and I've got more points to make. 782 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:01,880 Not bad. 783 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,560 So then she says in the B statements so that next block up on either side, ascending and 784 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:13,920 descending, Paul links the husband is the head of the wife with a verse from Genesis 785 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,140 2. 786 00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:19,840 So that's where it says the man shall leave his father and mother shall leave his wife, 787 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:20,840 etc. 788 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:29,760 And she said that a lot of people, and rightfully so, would read the word head and interpret 789 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:36,280 it as a metaphorical meaning for a leader or someone in authority or the person making 790 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,320 the decision, the brains of the operation. 791 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:50,640 But in ancient Greek, which of course is where this is coming from, the word head would rarely 792 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,200 have meant that. 793 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,320 Would rarely have meant authority. 794 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,480 And she has a whole article on this and I would really love to do a whole episode on 795 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:06,400 it's the Greek word is actually kafele for the Greek word for head. 796 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,120 And she talks about this metaphor. 797 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,760 But as a very basic explanation, it means unity. 798 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,760 Oh! 799 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:18,760 Unity. 800 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,800 I've never heard it interpreted that way. 801 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,520 Well, it's because we don't hear about it in context. 802 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:26,520 No. 803 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,400 And we're not taught to look into the original Greek. 804 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,600 Not at all. 805 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,040 Or the original translations at all. 806 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:41,520 However, I would like to point out that our pastors as a rule who have been educated in 807 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,080 this have studied the ancient Greek, have studied the ancient Hebrew, and they should 808 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,880 know this crap and they should be able to inform you about it. 809 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:57,160 The fact that the two of us are sitting here being the first ones to tell this to you is 810 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,560 a little sad. 811 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:04,840 Like I'm really glad that we can have this time with you and that you trust us to... 812 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:05,840 You're welcome. 813 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:11,040 ...to talk about these things and hopefully make you laugh a little bit. 814 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,400 But your pastor should be telling you this stuff. 815 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,720 It shouldn't just be us. 816 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,360 So demand better, I guess is what I'm saying. 817 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,920 Demand better. 818 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,160 So then she talks about how Paul uses the head-body metaphor previously also in Ephesians 819 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,160 1. 820 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,640 Ephesians is a really interesting book. 821 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:36,080 And she says that he uses it when he talks about how amazingly God has endowed the church. 822 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:41,720 So the verses are Ephesians 1, 18 through 19, and then she moves on to verse 23 and it says, 823 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:46,280 "...the riches of his glorious inheritance and his holy people and his incomparably great 824 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,000 power for us who believe." 825 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:53,480 And then we jump to verse 23 because it says, "...as his body, we the church are the fullness 826 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,400 of him, Christ the head, who fills everything in every way." 827 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,720 So again, we've got Christ in here. 828 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:03,720 Look, he keeps bringing God in. 829 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:04,720 What? 830 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:05,720 In the Bible? 831 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:06,720 In the Bible. 832 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:07,720 It's shocking. 833 00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:09,880 I'm baffled. 834 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:16,640 So he's using this in his illustration to husbands and wives to yet again say, hey, 835 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:24,800 look, Christ took himself from the authority that he was given, brought himself to where 836 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,800 we are. 837 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:26,800 He is the three in one. 838 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:27,800 He could be himself. 839 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:28,800 That's true. 840 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,080 To where we are and raised the church up. 841 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,240 So we're just essentially like making the same point, but in a different, more poetic 842 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:37,240 way. 843 00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:41,600 They say that if something is truly important, it's said about three times. 844 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:42,600 Yeah. 845 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,960 They also say if you're going to buy something online, you have to put it in front of someone 846 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,320 like three to five times before they'll actually click purchase. 847 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:53,120 I am telling you those shoes have been everywhere. 848 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,960 They are like, you need to buy these shoes on Instagram, on Facebook and my dreams. 849 00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:57,960 Because they know. 850 00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:58,960 I know. 851 00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,960 They got me. 852 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:00,960 You're going to buy them. 853 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,960 I know. 854 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:08,880 So one point I just do want to circle back to and I hope that I've made this clear, but 855 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,760 we're not saying that like men are so superior to women that they have to lower themselves 856 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:13,760 to our level. 857 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:14,760 No. 858 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,740 What we're saying is that in the Roman world, in the Greek world, men had so much more authority 859 00:49:20,740 --> 00:49:23,240 than women, so much more power than women. 860 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:27,720 Yes, there were some women that were able to break free of that, but as a whole. 861 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:28,720 Yeah. 862 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:32,440 And we're reading this with our 2024 hats on. 863 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,760 You got to think about this in ancient Roman or ancient Greek, whatever time. 864 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:38,760 Right. 865 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:46,120 So what's being asked of these men, of these husbands is take that authority that you have 866 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,820 and toss it to the side. 867 00:49:47,820 --> 00:49:50,440 You don't need it anymore because God's your authority. 868 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:51,440 Right. 869 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:52,440 Because God's your authority. 870 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:53,440 Yeah. 871 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,440 Be different than the society that's around you. 872 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:03,320 I think it's used, you hear that a lot arguing against Christian feminism to say like, well, 873 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,520 we need to be different than society and society is so feminist. 874 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:07,520 Well, yeah. 875 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,720 Not the society back then. 876 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:10,720 No. 877 00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,160 Paul calls us to be different than society. 878 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,480 Absolutely. 879 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,800 But he called us to be different than his society. 880 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:17,800 Right. 881 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,800 That he knew. 882 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:19,800 Right. 883 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:20,800 Not the society that we're sitting in. 884 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,040 I think that's such an important point and if you want to rewind it, listen to it again. 885 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,280 I think we've also made that point before. 886 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,280 We have. 887 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,280 Hey, if something's important, you say it more than once. 888 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,880 So yeah, I think that this is a good, a good starting point. 889 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,680 We've hit an hour at this point. 890 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,520 You guys might be bored of us. 891 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,240 Expect a part three because this is just something that we're super passionate about and that 892 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:49,800 you think is really important. 893 00:50:49,800 --> 00:51:00,440 We've seen too many stories where women get told that this section of Ephesians means they 894 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:01,680 have no authority. 895 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,640 They have no brain of their own. 896 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,040 Yeah. 897 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,840 When God gave you and I both a brain. 898 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:10,840 Yeah. 899 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,480 Now I don't use mine very often. 900 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:22,360 Or just this is, I think this is of critical importance to the future of the church. 901 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:28,040 If we don't get this right, I don't know how we stand before God at the end and say, 902 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,040 God, look what we did. 903 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:35,520 Or I don't know how I can go on to tell like other people, yeah, you should definitely 904 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:40,260 follow this church or follow this religion. 905 00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:47,840 So let's try again guys, as a church, as a community of believers, let's take another 906 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:56,200 pass at what Paul is saying and really think it through. 907 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:01,640 Really dig super deep, not just let's do a quick Google search and let's find the highest 908 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,680 rated things because let me tell you, they're bad. 909 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:07,680 But really dig in. 910 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:13,320 It's really difficult to find quality research on this topic and I'm glad that we're able 911 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,360 to share this with people. 912 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:16,360 Yeah. 913 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,400 So we will see you again in two weeks. 914 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,040 However, we are super excited. 915 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:26,040 We're going to start doing something a little bit new because we need to make this a priority 916 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,040 in our lives and in yours. 917 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:33,520 We are your priority. 918 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,120 You need to hear our voices more often. 919 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,800 We're a great time, okay guys? 920 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:47,660 So on our off weeks, so right now we are, we post bi-weekly and we would love to get 921 00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:54,600 to a point where we are posting full episodes weekly, but we both have jobs and yeah. 922 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,540 So that's just not practical for us right now. 923 00:52:56,540 --> 00:53:01,800 So what we are really excited to start doing is on our off weeks, we're going to do a mini 924 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:08,080 episode and we're going to try and record those more kind of in real time so that we 925 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,160 can talk about things that are happening right now. 926 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,760 Hot button current events. 927 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:14,760 Absolutely. 928 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,800 For example, the Harrison Butker speech. 929 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,800 Yes. 930 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,800 I'm very passionate about that. 931 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,160 We're going to record that, but probably tonight because we got to get ready to go. 932 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,120 So that'll be a shorter episode. 933 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,320 It's just going to be less research based and more just us chatting about what's going 934 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:31,320 on in the world. 935 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,320 We love it. 936 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:33,320 We love to chat. 937 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:34,320 I don't know what you're talking about. 938 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:35,320 We haven't been talking for an hour. 939 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:41,760 I'm a little sassy and she's maybe sassier? 940 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,000 I don't think so. 941 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,480 I just have no filter. 942 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,480 You have no filter. 943 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:48,480 That's true. 944 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,120 We know. 945 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,120 Mom is very upset by it. 946 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:53,120 I know. 947 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,120 Okay. 948 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:55,660 So thank you guys so much for listening. 949 00:53:55,660 --> 00:54:04,720 Please follow us on our social media accounts at wearemore.podcast or we.r.more on TikTok. 950 00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,480 And we'll see you next week. 951 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:26,840 We love you and good night.