WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.889 Khurram: I see AI as democratizing personalization. 00:00:02.889 --> 00:00:03.179 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:00:03.615 --> 00:00:06.065 Khurram: Whereas the internet democratized knowledge, you could 00:00:06.355 --> 00:00:07.945 find the information you needed. 00:00:08.225 --> 00:00:10.775 It was, you had to do a lot of the legwork, it wasn't 00:00:10.775 --> 00:00:14.345 personalized to your, what you were exactly trying to understand. 00:00:14.369 --> 00:00:14.909 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:00:14.910 --> 00:00:15.840 Mm 00:00:16.005 --> 00:00:18.105 Khurram: helps you personalize all of that information and 00:00:18.105 --> 00:00:20.135 knowledge and service, right? 00:00:20.375 --> 00:00:24.205 And so if I think about what requires a lot of personalization very high on 00:00:24.205 --> 00:00:26.665 that list, is learning and education. 00:00:27.605 --> 00:00:30.205 Right, like that is probably the epitome of something where 00:00:30.205 --> 00:00:31.475 we think about personalization. 00:00:31.755 --> 00:00:35.155 Personalized learning has always been a north star for us, and it's where 00:00:35.155 --> 00:00:39.585 we've really leveraged the community, the mentors that I was talking about 00:00:39.615 --> 00:00:43.675 earlier, to be able to personalize the learning for the individual versus 00:00:43.675 --> 00:00:46.585 just lectures and content, for example, which aren't very personalizable. 00:00:47.839 --> 00:00:48.479 Raphaël: that makes sense. 00:00:48.985 --> 00:00:52.825 Khurram: Um, so I do see AI and we've leveraged AI quite a bit internally 00:00:52.909 --> 00:00:53.569 Raphaël: Oh, cool. 00:00:53.605 --> 00:00:55.355 Khurram: for exactly that. 00:00:55.405 --> 00:01:00.735 How do students get help way faster than they could before and in a different way? 00:01:01.355 --> 00:01:05.165 How do they personalize what they're consuming within our 00:01:05.165 --> 00:01:06.215 learning management system? 00:01:06.895 --> 00:01:10.535 And you know internally we've even been leveraging AI operationally, 00:01:10.535 --> 00:01:13.235 uh, generative AI that is, to help us iterate on curriculum. 00:01:13.245 --> 00:01:15.615 I talked about our curriculum being code. 00:01:15.975 --> 00:01:19.545 Well, we all know AI can work quite well with text and code. 00:01:19.825 --> 00:01:24.455 And so we actually have things like a curriculum healing bot that monitors 00:01:24.465 --> 00:01:29.865 for student feedback and then adjusts and suggests changes to curriculum based 00:01:29.865 --> 00:01:33.285 on feedback in a learning management system to existing activities or 00:01:33.285 --> 00:01:37.245 lessons in the LMS as GitHub pull requests that can then be reviewed by 00:01:37.255 --> 00:01:39.485 humans such as myself to be merged in. 00:01:39.685 --> 00:01:43.215 So it allows us to again, yeah, that flywheel effect is just fantastic. 00:01:43.436 --> 00:01:47.336 Raphaël: Hey folks, and welcome to this latest episode of 00:01:47.336 --> 00:01:49.376 the sustainable tech podcast. 00:01:49.376 --> 00:01:54.589 I'm your host Raph and today we are going to be talking to Khurram Virani 00:01:54.669 --> 00:01:58.299 co-founder and CTO of lighthouse labs. 00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:03.939 Canada's largest tech career accelerator based in Vancouver, BC. 00:02:03.939 --> 00:02:06.639 I've known Khurram for quite a few years now. 00:02:06.689 --> 00:02:10.109 We met probably for the first time, many years ago. 00:02:10.359 --> 00:02:11.619 But didn't chat too much. 00:02:11.619 --> 00:02:16.009 And then in the past few years we started chatting a lot more and hanging out and 00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:17.959 we're always talking a lot about tech. 00:02:17.989 --> 00:02:22.539 Like that's what we connected over is frameworks and how to organize code, how 00:02:22.539 --> 00:02:28.279 to teach people, how to code how to make software development more accessible to 00:02:28.279 --> 00:02:32.179 people but it's been very much about code. 00:02:32.839 --> 00:02:34.819 'cause that's a lot of what I do. 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:39.739 And that's where our interests intersected a lot I really wanted to 00:02:39.739 --> 00:02:44.509 dig into lighthouse labs and Khurram's journey to building this thing. 00:02:44.509 --> 00:02:47.719 I've actually hired a couple of people from my house labs in the past. 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:51.829 And so I already had a sense of how the organization operates to some extent. 00:02:52.489 --> 00:02:54.949 But I really wanted to get into the meat of it. 00:02:54.949 --> 00:02:56.989 What drives the people behind it? 00:02:56.989 --> 00:02:58.099 And how it all started. 00:02:58.099 --> 00:02:59.749 So I hope you enjoy the episode. 00:02:59.749 --> 00:03:02.199 I learned a lot from it and it was just a fun chat. 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:03.419 Here's my interview with Khurram 00:03:03.449 --> 00:03:03.949 Hi Khurram. 00:03:04.309 --> 00:03:04.969 How are you? 00:03:05.290 --> 00:03:06.250 Khurram: Hey, Raph, I'm good. 00:03:06.250 --> 00:03:06.870 Thanks for asking. 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:07.380 Raphaël: Awesome. 00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:09.510 So I'm just gonna dive right into it. 00:03:09.600 --> 00:03:13.840 Uh, and I just kind of want to know, how you started Lighthouse Labs and like 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:17.680 what led you to the point where you were like, yeah, let's do this thing. 00:03:17.730 --> 00:03:19.050 Khurram: Yeah, that's a great question. 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.220 So Lighthouse Labs was started by myself and a few others out in Vancouver 00:03:23.230 --> 00:03:26.880 initially, 11 years ago now, in 2013. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:31.410 Yeah, and I'd moved just specifically for that reason from 00:03:31.410 --> 00:03:34.600 Toronto to Vancouver living on a couch for the first three months. 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:37.860 And so it was a wild time in terms of startup. 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:42.977 It's a, you know, it's not funded by big VCs or angels or anything like that, so 00:03:42.977 --> 00:03:47.807 it's very bootstrapped and continues to feel like a startup, even 11 years in. 00:03:48.747 --> 00:03:53.347 Um, but at its heart, Lighthouse Labs is more of an education 00:03:53.347 --> 00:03:54.807 company than a tech company, right? 00:03:54.807 --> 00:03:56.077 It's tech education, 00:03:56.146 --> 00:03:56.586 Raphaël: Mm hmm. 00:03:56.647 --> 00:04:01.717 Khurram: people to enter into technology by going through a very quick and 00:04:01.717 --> 00:04:06.437 short amount of bootcamp like education whether it's three months or six months. 00:04:07.112 --> 00:04:10.462 Um, and so that they can actually be technical professionals like 00:04:10.462 --> 00:04:14.635 software developers, data scientists, or cyber security, professionals. 00:04:14.635 --> 00:04:20.335 And the impetus for it was actually many years before then. 00:04:20.925 --> 00:04:25.255 I guess maybe I need to give you a little bit of what my journey, a 00:04:25.255 --> 00:04:29.345 little bit to actually fully answer the question of how Lighthouse came about. 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:30.109 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:34.020 Khurram: I've been a technologist and an educator for most of my life since 00:04:34.020 --> 00:04:35.500 I was probably around 10 years old. 00:04:35.669 --> 00:04:36.149 Raphaël: Oh, cool. 00:04:36.350 --> 00:04:39.390 Khurram: And so this kind of goes back to Pakistan where I was born and grew up. 00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:43.760 But of course at the time it was my parents that made that decision of 00:04:43.760 --> 00:04:45.270 let's bring a computer into the house. 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:48.400 And when I was getting really, really involved with it, let's 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:51.590 ask him to volunteer at the local library to teach adults how to 00:04:51.590 --> 00:04:53.310 use MS DOS and Windows and all 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:53.959 Raphaël: I love it. 00:04:54.425 --> 00:04:57.045 Khurram: So this is going back into the early mid 90s, you 00:04:57.045 --> 00:04:59.205 know, dealing with 386 or 486. 00:04:59.205 --> 00:05:02.345 I don't know if the audience is going to be able to relate to these words. 00:05:02.395 --> 00:05:04.895 Pre pentium, if that means anything to anybody. 00:05:05.425 --> 00:05:08.985 Uh, you know, pretty much pre internet for me anyway. 00:05:08.985 --> 00:05:15.795 And it was a kind of falling backward into my passion of tech and education. 00:05:15.845 --> 00:05:19.715 Without realizing it, and that followed me through all the way to today, 00:05:19.945 --> 00:05:24.215 where I, even in high school and other schooling, would always put my hand up 00:05:24.215 --> 00:05:27.745 to help build curriculum for computer science, or teach the computer science 00:05:27.745 --> 00:05:29.829 programs, or TA, or what have you. 00:05:29.829 --> 00:05:34.283 Um, and so that was like a big part of, you know, what I saw myself getting 00:05:34.283 --> 00:05:36.117 into in my later stages in life. 00:05:36.117 --> 00:05:40.628 I guess I always thought I would be a part time instructor at a career 00:05:40.628 --> 00:05:45.118 college or something later in life as a retirement thing, but coding boot 00:05:45.118 --> 00:05:51.568 camps happened and I actually had the opportunity to work as a consultant for 00:05:51.568 --> 00:05:55.388 one of the first ones in Canada, the first one for in Canada, out east in Toronto 00:05:56.068 --> 00:05:59.948 and I helped build their curriculum, was their lead instructor, taught with 00:05:59.948 --> 00:06:04.278 them for a few cohorts and realized how I'd want to do things a little bit 00:06:04.278 --> 00:06:08.158 differently and have more control over the experience for students and the outcomes. 00:06:08.683 --> 00:06:13.593 And took a step back from them and started my own while moving out west to Vancouver. 00:06:13.953 --> 00:06:17.903 But then quickly also a year later expanding it out to the East Coast. 00:06:18.208 --> 00:06:18.828 Raphaël: All right. 00:06:18.898 --> 00:06:19.228 And 00:06:19.233 --> 00:06:19.723 Khurram: of Canada. 00:06:20.138 --> 00:06:20.778 Raphaël: Nice. 00:06:20.878 --> 00:06:21.768 Yeah, that's epic. 00:06:22.068 --> 00:06:24.788 And so why Vancouver? 00:06:24.818 --> 00:06:26.648 Why did you move from Toronto? 00:06:26.698 --> 00:06:29.848 Khurram: I found that Vancouver's tech community was more nascent. 00:06:29.906 --> 00:06:30.416 Raphaël: Okay. 00:06:30.891 --> 00:06:33.161 Khurram: Toronto already had a similar offering. 00:06:33.731 --> 00:06:37.991 Vancouver's was, it seemed ripe for There's a need here that hasn't 00:06:38.001 --> 00:06:41.341 really been accomplished yet, but also with the goal of going back. 00:06:41.351 --> 00:06:44.361 Also, personally, I wanted to move out, my wife and I wanted to 00:06:44.361 --> 00:06:46.321 move out to the West Coast anyway. 00:06:46.641 --> 00:06:49.831 So it was a little bit of a selfish decision, and honestly, I had to strong 00:06:49.831 --> 00:06:53.301 arm my other co founders because they were also asking the same question, why are we 00:06:53.301 --> 00:06:55.211 not doing this in a bigger market first? 00:06:55.781 --> 00:06:59.241 Um, but we did move out to Toronto within a year as well, 00:06:59.261 --> 00:07:00.541 a year and a half of starting. 00:07:01.626 --> 00:07:03.376 Raphaël: And how did you meet your co founders? 00:07:03.534 --> 00:07:07.264 Khurram: Uh, actually, so one of them, uh, Josh Borts, I've been, I've had other 00:07:07.264 --> 00:07:10.484 startups with I had a software agency, even actually while we started Lighthouse 00:07:10.484 --> 00:07:14.321 Labs, we were operating another business together to provide software consultancy 00:07:14.321 --> 00:07:18.621 to startups and mid sized companies, and we had clients like, Fasken on the law 00:07:18.621 --> 00:07:23.471 side, and TD on the banking side, and some healthcare companies as well, so it was 00:07:23.471 --> 00:07:28.281 going pretty well, but I was also getting in A little bit tired of doing consulting 00:07:28.501 --> 00:07:33.341 and not having a product or something that was our own that was longer term. 00:07:33.641 --> 00:07:38.061 But when I broached the idea with him a little bit after kind of doing a 00:07:38.061 --> 00:07:42.051 little bit of that part time teaching with the other bootcamp, he liked the 00:07:42.051 --> 00:07:43.891 idea but didn't want to move out west. 00:07:43.941 --> 00:07:47.881 I said I wanted to move out west and so that was a little bit of a contention. 00:07:48.171 --> 00:07:50.281 And then we agreed that we would need more co founders. 00:07:50.291 --> 00:07:52.991 So actually initially we started off with six co founders. 00:07:53.436 --> 00:07:56.416 Which, in hindsight, was a pretty big mistake. 00:07:56.836 --> 00:07:59.886 Um, that would be my first advice to anybody looking to start something, is 00:07:59.896 --> 00:08:03.076 maybe don't have so many co founders. 00:08:03.901 --> 00:08:04.311 Raphaël: Yep. 00:08:04.551 --> 00:08:06.251 What do you think is the ideal number? 00:08:06.261 --> 00:08:08.051 What's the perfect number of co founders? 00:08:08.866 --> 00:08:11.206 Khurram: I'd say three is probably ideal. 00:08:11.316 --> 00:08:12.626 Two is also great. 00:08:13.386 --> 00:08:16.386 And, you know, people worry about even numbers and tiebreakers. 00:08:16.426 --> 00:08:18.046 Honestly, there's so many ways around that. 00:08:18.656 --> 00:08:20.706 Uh, and it rarely is gonna be an issue. 00:08:20.706 --> 00:08:23.416 If you're gonna have contention, it'll be with more people, so likely 00:08:23.416 --> 00:08:27.176 my guess is three is more contentious than two, is more contentious than 00:08:27.176 --> 00:08:30.596 one, right, in terms of difference of opinions and values and so on. 00:08:30.811 --> 00:08:31.331 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:08:31.357 --> 00:08:31.787 Nice. 00:08:32.097 --> 00:08:33.977 What were your, like, tangible steps? 00:08:33.977 --> 00:08:37.407 Like, how did you first actually start building this thing? 00:08:37.817 --> 00:08:40.817 did you just go out and find a space and say, all right, let's 00:08:40.827 --> 00:08:42.367 shove some students in here and 00:08:43.053 --> 00:08:43.823 Khurram: So we all moved. 00:08:43.823 --> 00:08:48.173 There was, there was actually like five of us that, four and a half if 00:08:48.173 --> 00:08:49.413 you will, that moved from Toronto. 00:08:49.413 --> 00:08:50.623 We were all East Coast based. 00:08:50.623 --> 00:08:52.273 Not a single one of us lived in Vancouver. 00:08:52.673 --> 00:08:56.093 My, my co founders to this day make fun of me that I forced them to 00:08:56.093 --> 00:08:57.633 move to Vancouver, some of them. 00:08:57.983 --> 00:09:00.783 Or to start a business in Vancouver, and I had never visited Vancouver 00:09:00.922 --> 00:09:02.162 Raphaël: that's so funny, 00:09:02.213 --> 00:09:05.043 Khurram: how are you going there and moving there without at least visiting it? 00:09:05.753 --> 00:09:08.373 I find, you know, Google Maps Street View is good enough, but, um, 00:09:09.022 --> 00:09:09.132 Raphaël: yeah, 00:09:09.303 --> 00:09:09.953 Khurram: it's Canada. 00:09:10.503 --> 00:09:14.583 but it was, a bunch of them came here earlier, went to a lot of meetups. 00:09:14.603 --> 00:09:20.953 There was, this type of company, this type of school, needs a lot of inroads 00:09:21.233 --> 00:09:25.483 and conversation because of it, especially at the time, progressive, different. 00:09:25.548 --> 00:09:27.887 Change in model approach to education. 00:09:27.887 --> 00:09:32.259 You need a lot of conversation with especially employers to get the word 00:09:32.269 --> 00:09:36.459 out, but also get their buy in as the early employers for our grads. 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.179 And then of course in that process, meet with people who are looking to enter tech, 00:09:40.189 --> 00:09:41.809 who are maybe also going to those meetups. 00:09:42.229 --> 00:09:46.859 So it was a lot, every week we would go to five to six meetups. 00:09:47.419 --> 00:09:49.959 Sometimes double down on meetups every night and then of course, a 00:09:49.959 --> 00:09:52.609 lot of meetings that would follow from there that were one on ones, 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:56.619 very much in person in the Gastown and Yaletown area of Vancouver. 00:09:57.049 --> 00:09:58.879 Raphaël: And how did you develop your curriculum? 00:09:59.146 --> 00:10:02.526 Khurram: Yeah, so, um, although we had a lot of co founders, I 00:10:02.526 --> 00:10:05.836 was the only one focused on the product side of things at the time. 00:10:06.406 --> 00:10:11.056 Everybody else was focused on, sales, marketing and those kind of initiatives, 00:10:11.056 --> 00:10:14.636 admissions, et cetera, whereas I was focused on building the curriculum. 00:10:15.116 --> 00:10:18.166 Of course, I had some inspiration or already had my preconceived 00:10:18.166 --> 00:10:20.196 ideas from having done it before 00:10:20.385 --> 00:10:20.906 Raphaël: mm hmm, 00:10:21.116 --> 00:10:22.526 Khurram: and having taught a lot before. 00:10:22.856 --> 00:10:24.806 So I brought a lot of those values into it. 00:10:25.036 --> 00:10:28.666 One of those values, for example, being community driven education, 00:10:29.026 --> 00:10:31.896 where a big emphasis for how we did things, very different than anybody 00:10:31.896 --> 00:10:35.226 else even in the US that was doing this, was around bringing community 00:10:35.246 --> 00:10:39.379 into the school instead of you join the community after you graduate the school. 00:10:39.629 --> 00:10:43.539 When you come to Lighthouse Labs, you are already part of the tech community. 00:10:43.844 --> 00:10:46.894 Because there's so much of the tech community already involved not just 00:10:46.894 --> 00:10:48.614 inception, but in its operation. 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:52.189 Raphaël: yeah, I have to say As someone, you know, I didn't 00:10:52.339 --> 00:10:56.309 do any of your programs, but I hired someone from your programs. 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:58.299 This was in 2015. 00:10:58.929 --> 00:11:03.579 And I felt like Lighthouse Labs had this like, draw to it. 00:11:03.609 --> 00:11:06.809 Like, I just felt like people were like, Oh yeah, let's go check out like the 00:11:06.809 --> 00:11:08.299 stuff that the students are building. 00:11:08.309 --> 00:11:11.579 And I would meet other people from like the tech sector who were 00:11:12.004 --> 00:11:14.564 Khurram: We were at one point in the first year only around ten people. 00:11:15.004 --> 00:11:17.024 And whenever people would meet us, they would assume we were 00:11:17.024 --> 00:11:18.294 like a hundred person company. 00:11:18.634 --> 00:11:23.154 And that is thanks to actually my co founder, Jeremy Shackey, who is our 00:11:23.164 --> 00:11:25.394 head of marketing, CEO and all of that. 00:11:25.664 --> 00:11:28.344 And he's just a brilliant growth hacker marketer. 00:11:28.664 --> 00:11:31.414 Especially with how we did the first two years. 00:11:31.749 --> 00:11:36.379 Where even companies like Telus, et cetera, just assumed that Lighthouse 00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:39.329 Labs was like 50 to 100 people and had been around for a long 00:11:39.329 --> 00:11:43.169 time just in the way that we did our marketing and conversations. 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.509 But another part of that is, again, that bringing that community into the company 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:51.039 made the company feel a lot more already integrated even in its first few months. 00:11:51.449 --> 00:11:51.989 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:11:52.359 --> 00:11:53.419 That makes a lot of sense. 00:11:53.829 --> 00:11:58.569 I'm curious if you can tell me a bit more about like how, like, okay, so you, 00:11:58.579 --> 00:12:02.349 you were saying how you were kind of sick of consulting, and you wanted like 00:12:02.349 --> 00:12:03.989 a product, a thing to call your own. 00:12:04.359 --> 00:12:08.264 I do feel like in some of our like previous conversations, you do 00:12:08.264 --> 00:12:12.418 sort of frame like Lighthouse as, uh, like it feels like a product. 00:12:12.468 --> 00:12:17.118 It is in a way a service, like education is a service, but I feel like some of you 00:12:17.118 --> 00:12:20.518 are thinking about it and the way that you've described things, even down to the 00:12:20.518 --> 00:12:26.048 fact that if I understand correctly, you have a custom platform that you build for 00:12:26.058 --> 00:12:28.888 your students to engage with the material. 00:12:28.898 --> 00:12:31.778 Um, so yeah, can you tell me more about that? 00:12:31.788 --> 00:12:32.828 Like how do you think about it? 00:12:33.218 --> 00:12:34.908 Education as a product. 00:12:35.248 --> 00:12:37.758 How does tech actually fit into that? 00:12:37.788 --> 00:12:38.268 Why? 00:12:38.288 --> 00:12:39.738 Why build your own platform? 00:12:39.978 --> 00:12:41.158 I don't know all of that stuff. 00:12:41.208 --> 00:12:42.248 I'm really curious. 00:12:42.844 --> 00:12:44.044 Khurram: Yeah, that's a great question. 00:12:44.044 --> 00:12:48.244 But from day one, we've seen, despite being an education company, we also 00:12:48.244 --> 00:12:49.584 see ourselves as a tech company. 00:12:50.254 --> 00:12:53.454 We are constantly working with technologists that are teaching with us, 00:12:53.504 --> 00:12:57.854 that are mentoring with us, and that are studying with us to become professionals. 00:12:58.224 --> 00:13:02.874 And actually, we made the decision early on to build a lot of the software and the 00:13:02.874 --> 00:13:07.304 curriculum in house instead of licensing or procuring things from external, which 00:13:07.324 --> 00:13:10.624 was always an option, and many others have pursued that, even for curriculum. 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:15.489 Um, we've built almost all our curriculum, especially in the early days, from 00:13:15.489 --> 00:13:20.889 scratch, uh, using proprietary, home grown, and actually, by the way, mostly 00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:24.909 the software that we built was built by our alumni, with oversight from seniors 00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:29.632 like myself, and a lot of how we actually build our curriculum is very different. 00:13:29.682 --> 00:13:32.452 We build it using the software development mindset. 00:13:32.452 --> 00:13:35.622 So we actually write curriculum as code, for example, where it's 00:13:35.632 --> 00:13:37.032 all written in markdown files. 00:13:37.512 --> 00:13:42.522 And all stored on GitHub with, you know, GitHub pull requests 00:13:42.532 --> 00:13:44.662 for each change and being tracked. 00:13:44.722 --> 00:13:49.712 And we allow our part time teachers, who are the mentors, 00:13:49.912 --> 00:13:51.312 to actually contribute changes. 00:13:51.342 --> 00:13:54.072 And it allows our curriculum to move extremely rapidly. 00:13:54.672 --> 00:13:59.642 Instead of, you know, Google Docs or your traditional WordPress like 00:13:59.972 --> 00:14:03.502 content management system where multiple people can't be contributing 00:14:03.502 --> 00:14:06.552 change, version history, all of these things are problematic we've 00:14:06.552 --> 00:14:07.992 kind of really streamlined that. 00:14:08.442 --> 00:14:11.142 So thinking about our curriculum as our product allowed us to 00:14:11.142 --> 00:14:13.542 really focus on, well, what does the authoring workflow look like? 00:14:13.752 --> 00:14:17.602 And believe me, we've used other more common industry standard authoring 00:14:17.602 --> 00:14:21.322 tools and they have their advantages. 00:14:21.492 --> 00:14:24.032 They're what you see is what you get type editors, but they're not 00:14:24.042 --> 00:14:27.702 good for technologists who want to move fast and follow best practices 00:14:27.702 --> 00:14:30.102 on how you manage content and code. 00:14:30.587 --> 00:14:31.407 Raphaël: That's cool. 00:14:32.037 --> 00:14:37.107 I'm maybe digging a little too much into tech things, but I'm kind of 00:14:37.107 --> 00:14:38.697 curious, like, what, what is the app? 00:14:38.697 --> 00:14:39.717 Like, how's it built? 00:14:39.717 --> 00:14:43.647 I assume, I think it's Ruby on Rails because that's what 00:14:43.647 --> 00:14:45.637 you used to focus on, I think. 00:14:45.647 --> 00:14:47.957 Khurram: Yeah, we, we definitely eat our own dog food. 00:14:47.967 --> 00:14:51.957 So a lot of the curriculum, of course it's changed a lot in the past 10 years. 00:14:51.957 --> 00:14:56.187 You know, the focus on Ruby is less, the focus on JavaScript, Node, and React are 00:14:56.197 --> 00:14:58.497 way heavier, at least on the web dev side. 00:14:58.517 --> 00:15:01.227 We have data scientists that we graduate that learn Python 00:15:01.717 --> 00:15:03.627 and work on data lakes, etc. 00:15:03.657 --> 00:15:05.957 And actually we're also hired at Lighthouse to help build 00:15:05.957 --> 00:15:07.237 out our data infrastructure. 00:15:07.997 --> 00:15:11.057 Um, but yes, our tech stack, although it's very Intricate, as 00:15:11.057 --> 00:15:14.897 I mentioned, there's some Python and you know, heavy SQL in there. 00:15:15.197 --> 00:15:20.367 On the web application side, it's a lot of Node, Ruby, Ruby on 00:15:20.367 --> 00:15:22.537 Rails, and a lot of React as well. 00:15:22.537 --> 00:15:25.967 We even have some Angular in there from the good old days that we haven't changed 00:15:25.967 --> 00:15:27.997 over, old Angular code, I should say. 00:15:28.397 --> 00:15:30.897 So it depends on which app we're talking about, but there is definitely 00:15:30.897 --> 00:15:32.457 a heavy reliance on Ruby on Rails. 00:15:32.867 --> 00:15:35.647 It's something we still continue to teach, although a lot less than 00:15:35.647 --> 00:15:37.387 we did in our first few years. 00:15:37.712 --> 00:15:38.172 Raphaël: Okay. 00:15:38.562 --> 00:15:41.782 I'm curious, speaking to that, how do you see, both like the 00:15:41.782 --> 00:15:45.522 evolution of, like, the tools and the technologies that people are using? 00:15:45.682 --> 00:15:47.312 What do students want to learn? 00:15:47.312 --> 00:15:48.592 Like, what do you see in the market? 00:15:48.592 --> 00:15:51.072 Like, what are people looking for? 00:15:51.072 --> 00:15:51.952 Khurram: It's a great question. 00:15:51.985 --> 00:15:55.205 I think there's um, definitely it's a shifting landscape right now. 00:15:55.785 --> 00:15:59.015 Um, I don't think it'll be a surprise to anybody listening, if they're listening 00:15:59.015 --> 00:16:03.465 in the same year or thereabouts, that the market is a little bit, is quite 00:16:03.465 --> 00:16:05.205 different than it was even a year ago. 00:16:05.895 --> 00:16:11.035 Where there's a lot of questions about tech, and are there jobs, and what's 00:16:11.035 --> 00:16:14.645 happening with all the layoffs, and if I go to a school, no matter what 00:16:14.645 --> 00:16:20.955 length it is is there enough, supply of jobs out there for me to make a dent. 00:16:21.125 --> 00:16:21.515 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:16:21.515 --> 00:16:25.925 Khurram: We are seeing, um, of course, students taking a little bit longer to 00:16:25.925 --> 00:16:29.225 be able to, or graduates taking a little bit longer to be able to find employment. 00:16:29.545 --> 00:16:33.865 There are good outcomes, but it does take more work on our side and on 00:16:33.865 --> 00:16:38.055 the student side and more patience to be able to enter the workforce. 00:16:38.085 --> 00:16:39.305 I would say especially. 00:16:39.755 --> 00:16:43.525 On the web development side right now, although it's constantly, every 00:16:43.525 --> 00:16:48.665 month is very different, I find we are seeing an increase in uptick again. 00:16:49.265 --> 00:16:53.305 so my prediction is that next year, starting hopefully in Q1, we're 00:16:53.305 --> 00:16:57.835 going to start to see a fairly big increase in hiring again. 00:16:58.445 --> 00:17:00.685 Whereas this year has been more on a downward trend. 00:17:00.974 --> 00:17:01.364 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:17:01.504 --> 00:17:01.754 That makes 00:17:02.145 --> 00:17:06.775 Khurram: I would say cyber is our biggest program in terms of interest and in 00:17:06.775 --> 00:17:09.785 terms of Canada's employment demands. 00:17:09.845 --> 00:17:14.685 There's thousands of jobs that are unfilled that are either for cyber 00:17:14.685 --> 00:17:19.945 managers or analysts or pen testers, forensics, those types of things, 00:17:19.975 --> 00:17:23.925 digital forensics of course, those types of roles are very there's 00:17:23.925 --> 00:17:25.245 quite a bit of demand for that. 00:17:25.704 --> 00:17:29.344 Raphaël: Is that specific to Canada or is that across like the whole industry? 00:17:29.414 --> 00:17:31.724 Khurram: Definitely a whole industry sort of thing, because a lot of the 00:17:31.724 --> 00:17:37.474 Canadian employers end up being service companies for global markets and the US. 00:17:38.234 --> 00:17:38.684 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:17:38.734 --> 00:17:39.384 Interesting. 00:17:39.384 --> 00:17:39.694 Khurram: Yeah. 00:17:39.793 --> 00:17:42.533 Raphaël: I wonder what's prompting that, I mean, you know, I guess we 00:17:42.533 --> 00:17:48.233 see some pretty high profile attacks that maybe are leading some people to 00:17:48.263 --> 00:17:51.783 think like, maybe we should take this security thing a bit more seriously. 00:17:52.514 --> 00:17:52.924 Khurram: Yeah. 00:17:53.004 --> 00:17:54.544 You know, we, what's that saying? 00:17:54.544 --> 00:17:56.604 Software is eating the world? 00:17:56.644 --> 00:17:57.694 Joel Spolsky, I think, 00:17:57.813 --> 00:17:58.123 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:17:58.394 --> 00:17:59.324 Khurram: from many years ago. 00:17:59.634 --> 00:18:03.554 Well, anytime there's software and even writing a single line 00:18:03.554 --> 00:18:07.164 of code, you're introducing surface area for cyber attacks. 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.109 And so I like to think of myself as the person who's providing those jobs to the 00:18:11.109 --> 00:18:15.429 cyber security people because I see myself more as a coder versus a cyber expert. 00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:19.809 And so I always joke with them about how I'm helping get them employed 00:18:19.819 --> 00:18:21.539 by introducing more and more cyber 00:18:21.773 --> 00:18:22.123 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:23.479 Khurram: attack vectors. 00:18:24.003 --> 00:18:24.553 Raphaël: I love it. 00:18:24.613 --> 00:18:24.803 That's 00:18:24.899 --> 00:18:27.859 Khurram: But yeah, as the world gets more and more software, as these non 00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:31.639 tech companies employ more and more tech, well, they have to start thinking 00:18:31.639 --> 00:18:36.249 about cyber attacks and security, especially as data sovereignty. 00:18:36.654 --> 00:18:40.714 And data security and these bigger attacks come to the limelight, right? 00:18:40.714 --> 00:18:43.784 Like we don't even necessarily know all of the attacks that happen and the data 00:18:43.784 --> 00:18:46.914 leaks that happen, just the ones that are reported by the bigger companies. 00:18:47.644 --> 00:18:52.370 And so, you know, there's a lot of opportunity in helping shore 00:18:52.370 --> 00:18:54.210 that up and defend as well. 00:18:54.505 --> 00:18:55.365 Raphaël: Yep, totally. 00:18:55.365 --> 00:19:01.085 What's your take on AI, how that fits into education, how that fits into software 00:19:01.085 --> 00:19:05.315 development, how that fits into, I don't know, just things in general, but yeah, I 00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:06.620 Khurram: Yeah, I think so. 00:19:06.620 --> 00:19:08.570 I know there's a lot of camps for AI. 00:19:08.600 --> 00:19:12.260 I think I was going to say that actually in your last question as well, because 00:19:12.310 --> 00:19:15.900 AI is obviously another big demand point from students and employers. 00:19:16.810 --> 00:19:23.120 And I am pretty excited about, although of course, cautiously optimistic, about 00:19:23.330 --> 00:19:27.730 a lot of the buzz right now with all the major companies pushing AI into 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:29.360 all of their platforms and hardware. 00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:34.990 But we are seeing a lot of excitement and demand from 00:19:34.990 --> 00:19:36.220 students and employers about it. 00:19:36.620 --> 00:19:38.170 I think there's a lot of opportunity. 00:19:38.540 --> 00:19:43.730 And the reason I think it really impacts our sector is because I see 00:19:43.730 --> 00:19:45.910 AI as democratizing personalization. 00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:46.200 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:19:46.636 --> 00:19:49.086 Khurram: Whereas the internet democratized knowledge, you could 00:19:49.376 --> 00:19:50.966 find the information you needed. 00:19:51.246 --> 00:19:53.796 It was, you had to do a lot of the legwork, it wasn't 00:19:53.796 --> 00:19:57.366 personalized to your, what you were exactly trying to understand. 00:19:57.390 --> 00:19:57.930 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:19:57.930 --> 00:19:58.860 Mm 00:19:59.026 --> 00:20:01.126 Khurram: helps you personalize all of that information and 00:20:01.126 --> 00:20:03.156 knowledge and service, right? 00:20:03.396 --> 00:20:07.226 And so if I think about what requires a lot of personalization very high on 00:20:07.226 --> 00:20:09.686 that list, is learning and education. 00:20:10.626 --> 00:20:13.226 Right, like that is probably the epitome of something where 00:20:13.226 --> 00:20:14.496 we think about personalization. 00:20:14.776 --> 00:20:18.176 Personalized learning has always been a north star for us, and it's where 00:20:18.176 --> 00:20:22.606 we've really leveraged the community, the mentors that I was talking about 00:20:22.636 --> 00:20:26.696 earlier, to be able to personalize the learning for the individual versus 00:20:26.696 --> 00:20:29.606 just lectures and content, for example, which aren't very personalizable. 00:20:30.860 --> 00:20:31.500 Raphaël: that makes sense. 00:20:32.006 --> 00:20:35.846 Khurram: Um, so I do see AI and we've leveraged AI quite a bit internally 00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:36.590 Raphaël: Oh, cool. 00:20:36.626 --> 00:20:38.376 Khurram: for exactly that. 00:20:38.476 --> 00:20:43.806 How do students get help way faster than they could before and in a different way? 00:20:44.426 --> 00:20:48.236 How do they personalize what they're consuming within our 00:20:48.236 --> 00:20:49.286 learning management system? 00:20:49.966 --> 00:20:53.606 And you know internally we've even been leveraging AI operationally, 00:20:53.606 --> 00:20:56.306 uh, generative AI that is, to help us iterate on curriculum. 00:20:56.316 --> 00:20:58.686 I talked about our curriculum being code. 00:20:59.046 --> 00:21:02.616 Well, we all know AI can work quite well with text and code. 00:21:02.896 --> 00:21:07.526 And so we actually have things like a curriculum healing bot that monitors 00:21:07.536 --> 00:21:12.936 for student feedback and then adjusts and suggests changes to curriculum based 00:21:12.936 --> 00:21:16.356 on feedback in a learning management system to existing activities or 00:21:16.356 --> 00:21:20.316 lessons in the LMS as GitHub pull requests that can then be reviewed by 00:21:20.326 --> 00:21:22.556 humans such as myself to be merged in. 00:21:22.756 --> 00:21:26.286 So it allows us to again, yeah, that flywheel effect is just fantastic. 00:21:27.020 --> 00:21:31.090 Raphaël: So do, okay, so like a student submits some feedback and 00:21:31.090 --> 00:21:34.960 then this bot responds to the feed, or like sees that feedback come in. 00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:40.460 It has the whole curriculum available and it'll just make suggestions as PRs 00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:42.450 that someone can then review or update. 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:42.640 And. 00:21:43.301 --> 00:21:46.721 Khurram: Yeah, so we have basically tens of PRs being merged in a week that are 00:21:46.721 --> 00:21:51.731 just a bot created by our curriculum healing bot that we call ShipWrite, 00:21:51.791 --> 00:21:53.401 because we like to use the nautical names. 00:21:53.801 --> 00:21:56.261 It does write the ship, you know, it corrects a lot of the 00:21:56.261 --> 00:21:59.951 mistakes, typos, but also adding more clarity to the instruction 00:21:59.971 --> 00:22:02.331 where the feedback is unanimous. 00:22:02.761 --> 00:22:06.961 And it allows us to constantly not worry about making changes 00:22:07.491 --> 00:22:11.341 quickly, because then there is the refinement process that follows very, 00:22:11.341 --> 00:22:12.781 very quickly thereafter as well. 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:14.420 Raphaël: Yeah, that's really cool. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.380 I'm just gonna add one little thing for all of the people 00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:19.090 listening who are non technical. 00:22:19.090 --> 00:22:25.270 A PR is a pull request, which is when you submit a change that you want someone 00:22:25.270 --> 00:22:27.780 else to, yeah, review and merge into 00:22:27.871 --> 00:22:28.241 Khurram: Yeah. 00:22:28.281 --> 00:22:29.241 I should have clarified that. 00:22:30.350 --> 00:22:31.610 Raphaël: Yeah, that's super cool. 00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:35.400 I guess you've got a whole sort of product development workflow, both 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:40.450 around the curriculum and around the tech that helps you manage the curriculum. 00:22:40.830 --> 00:22:44.880 Are they split or is it, I mean, in a way, it's like one product. 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:46.510 How do you, yeah, how do you treat that? 00:22:46.510 --> 00:22:49.760 Khurram: I would say the main thing that we look at as our product is what 00:22:49.770 --> 00:22:51.670 students and employers interact with. 00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:52.830 Raphaël: Yeah, that makes sense. 00:22:53.271 --> 00:22:57.921 Khurram: Our end users are people that go through our program, interact with our 00:22:57.921 --> 00:23:01.551 mentors, interact with our curriculum, yes, and our software, but I would see 00:23:01.551 --> 00:23:05.191 the product as what the experience, the whole experience, not just the content, 00:23:05.375 --> 00:23:05.885 Raphaël: Mm hmm. 00:23:06.831 --> 00:23:09.221 Khurram: that students go through in their three to six month 00:23:09.221 --> 00:23:10.871 journey to becoming a technologist. 00:23:11.115 --> 00:23:11.675 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:23:12.031 --> 00:23:14.821 Khurram: There's also the career services side, of course, which I would call 00:23:14.831 --> 00:23:16.381 very much part of the product, right? 00:23:16.381 --> 00:23:20.471 Like, after you graduate, after three to six months, depending on your program, 00:23:20.921 --> 00:23:24.091 you're then on the job hunt for three to six months at least, right, usually? 00:23:24.481 --> 00:23:28.501 And we have a very strong career services team that has been 00:23:28.501 --> 00:23:29.721 a big reason for our success. 00:23:30.516 --> 00:23:35.916 And their connections with employers and the white gloving, the coaching and the 00:23:36.066 --> 00:23:39.756 connections that they provide to students, the network that they provide, right? 00:23:40.176 --> 00:23:43.746 So that whole experience from, you know, admissions all the way to 00:23:43.746 --> 00:23:46.356 getting a job is the product, right? 00:23:46.686 --> 00:23:47.676 It's also a service. 00:23:47.736 --> 00:23:49.626 Of course there's services elements to the product. 00:23:50.046 --> 00:23:54.306 And then you can also argue, and I would agree with you, that the employers also. 00:23:54.971 --> 00:23:57.651 Can be viewed as end users because they are hiring our grads. 00:23:57.661 --> 00:24:01.601 So we are constantly in conversation with, when I say community, also the employers 00:24:01.601 --> 00:24:05.081 about how things are going, what trends they're seeing shifting, what do they 00:24:05.081 --> 00:24:08.631 wish we had taught more to our grads for all three of our major programs. 00:24:08.825 --> 00:24:12.205 Raphaël: As an organization, how do you frame like your mission? 00:24:12.205 --> 00:24:16.875 And how do you frame, like, how do you think about, uh, I guess sort of 00:24:16.875 --> 00:24:20.715 like KPIs, like how do you measure the impact that you're having against 00:24:20.715 --> 00:24:22.765 like your desired impact in the world? 00:24:22.815 --> 00:24:23.705 If that makes sense. 00:24:24.311 --> 00:24:25.841 Khurram: That's a great, that's a great question. 00:24:26.421 --> 00:24:27.951 It's funny you talk about mission and vision. 00:24:27.951 --> 00:24:33.681 It took us, I think, five years to realize that we really need to think and spend 00:24:33.681 --> 00:24:36.411 time and lock ourselves into a room and come up with the mission and vision, 00:24:36.411 --> 00:24:38.071 which honestly wasn't quick and easy. 00:24:38.071 --> 00:24:42.411 It sounds like an easy thing, especially because we had a solution and a product 00:24:42.461 --> 00:24:46.911 to begin with on day one, and we had product market fit right away as well. 00:24:47.191 --> 00:24:47.481 Right? 00:24:48.031 --> 00:24:49.321 Uh, we were lucky in that way. 00:24:49.671 --> 00:24:52.281 But, I'm pretty proud of the mission and vision that we created. 00:24:52.441 --> 00:24:56.071 Took us, I would say, a lot of conversation, maybe around a half a 00:24:56.071 --> 00:25:00.851 year of lots of different meetings and iteration and workshopping it. 00:25:00.851 --> 00:25:05.351 Um, but we did kind of reverse engineer it from why we started 00:25:05.381 --> 00:25:08.581 and we have to really ask ourselves why we started many years later. 00:25:09.131 --> 00:25:12.331 Um, but yeah, I would say our, our vision is to make technological 00:25:12.331 --> 00:25:15.661 change a source of opportunity for everyone and not just a select few. 00:25:16.245 --> 00:25:17.115 Raphaël: I love that. 00:25:17.115 --> 00:25:17.775 That's awesome. 00:25:18.371 --> 00:25:21.971 Khurram: Our mission to accomplish that vision is to effectively train individuals 00:25:22.291 --> 00:25:27.191 in the necessary skills and technology and data to succeed in constantly, 00:25:27.241 --> 00:25:28.861 in the constantly evolving workforce. 00:25:29.811 --> 00:25:30.091 Right? 00:25:31.285 --> 00:25:31.675 Raphaël: Cool. 00:25:31.831 --> 00:25:34.131 Khurram: So, it really is about that effective, efficient, 00:25:34.141 --> 00:25:35.471 just in time learning, 00:25:35.605 --> 00:25:35.755 Raphaël: Mm-Hmm? 00:25:36.711 --> 00:25:40.261 Khurram: right through a lot of heavy mentorship and community integration. 00:25:40.621 --> 00:25:44.521 But really the end goal is about making sure that a large swath of 00:25:44.521 --> 00:25:49.461 the population, and not just a select few who can afford private education, 00:25:49.461 --> 00:25:51.311 for example, uh, have access. 00:25:51.681 --> 00:25:55.291 So, the next question should be, well, but you are a private 00:25:55.551 --> 00:25:56.651 career college in a way, right? 00:25:57.131 --> 00:25:59.271 You have pretty expensive tuition. 00:25:59.391 --> 00:26:00.871 We have a lot of value for that tuition. 00:26:01.201 --> 00:26:05.061 So how do people then get access to that who are more equity deserving 00:26:05.061 --> 00:26:06.391 but don't necessarily have the funds? 00:26:06.515 --> 00:26:07.055 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:26:07.711 --> 00:26:08.841 Khurram: And this is where we're most proud. 00:26:08.841 --> 00:26:12.561 The last five years, it took us a while to convince not just employers 00:26:12.591 --> 00:26:16.691 of, look, people can go through this kind of very short, intense program 00:26:16.931 --> 00:26:21.561 and come out, not just technologists, but also people that can contribute 00:26:21.561 --> 00:26:24.981 from week one, month one of their job. 00:26:25.906 --> 00:26:30.236 As an, as an employee, but it took a while for, of course, government to start 00:26:30.246 --> 00:26:35.376 seeing Lighthouse Labs as a very impactful player in the tech ecosystem, not just 00:26:35.376 --> 00:26:40.086 in Vancouver, not just in Toronto, but we had satellite locations before going 00:26:40.086 --> 00:26:43.926 fully remote, of course, uh, during COVID, we had satellite locations in Victoria 00:26:43.956 --> 00:26:46.846 and Ottawa, Halifax, Calgary, et cetera. 00:26:47.656 --> 00:26:52.226 And, you know, once we had that presence and that footprint, we 00:26:52.226 --> 00:26:54.496 started conversing with government and. 00:26:54.851 --> 00:26:58.951 I'm pretty proud of what, uh, Jeremy, my co founder, and many others in the 00:26:58.951 --> 00:27:02.141 company, have been able to accomplish with our government partnerships. 00:27:02.141 --> 00:27:05.671 I think even universities and colleges that have been established here in Canada 00:27:06.251 --> 00:27:11.141 are, they not only know about Lighthouse, but they see us as very good channels 00:27:11.481 --> 00:27:17.001 into, and good partners for going into big government grants and proposals. 00:27:17.011 --> 00:27:22.591 So as an example, most recently we just finished a near, just north of 20 million. 00:27:23.131 --> 00:27:30.281 Um, we were given that money to work with various different partners, universities, 00:27:30.381 --> 00:27:33.681 we worked with hundreds of different community partners in Canada to give 00:27:33.711 --> 00:27:39.821 equity deserving groups, BIPOC, LGBTQ, Indigenous First Nations, women in 00:27:39.821 --> 00:27:44.771 tech, access to our education or similar education to enter the technology field 00:27:44.771 --> 00:27:46.321 without having to pay those dollars. 00:27:46.321 --> 00:27:50.811 So a lot of that, most of that money was, wage subsidies and tuition subsidies 00:27:51.031 --> 00:27:52.791 to be able to actually get access. 00:27:53.091 --> 00:27:55.961 And so, when you look at our vision from that perspective, and a lot of many 00:27:55.971 --> 00:28:00.941 other government partnerships that we've done for soldiers, for black youth, etc. 00:28:01.411 --> 00:28:03.211 It's been actually amazing. 00:28:03.221 --> 00:28:04.841 That's been the most rewarding part of this. 00:28:05.381 --> 00:28:08.831 Is the individual stories, as well as the impact to equity deserving groups that 00:28:08.831 --> 00:28:12.571 we've been able to do, despite being a for profit private education company. 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.600 Raphaël: Well, yeah, thanks for, for sharing all of that and, 00:28:16.610 --> 00:28:20.450 uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's time for you to share that product. 00:28:21.050 --> 00:28:24.640 What product have you brought us on this small tech podcast? 00:28:25.296 --> 00:28:27.986 Khurram: Yeah, so actually, funny enough that you ask, I've, for the 00:28:27.986 --> 00:28:30.766 last few weeks, only discovered this product very recently. 00:28:30.766 --> 00:28:33.246 It's a mobile app that I use on my Android, I'm pretty 00:28:33.246 --> 00:28:34.276 sure they have an iOS app. 00:28:34.596 --> 00:28:35.476 It's called Yuka. 00:28:35.716 --> 00:28:36.426 Have you heard of Yuka? 00:28:36.790 --> 00:28:37.360 Raphaël: Yuka? 00:28:37.590 --> 00:28:38.716 Khurram: Y U K A 00:28:38.970 --> 00:28:41.970 Raphaël: I think someone, someone has told me about that. 00:28:42.066 --> 00:28:44.696 Khurram: You might have seen my post, because I actually like it 00:28:44.696 --> 00:28:46.726 so much, and I rarely ever do this. 00:28:46.756 --> 00:28:49.176 A, I post it on threads, okay? 00:28:49.541 --> 00:28:52.371 And I posted about a mobile app that everybody should try, 00:28:52.371 --> 00:28:54.821 like, when was the last time I did either of those two things? 00:28:54.851 --> 00:28:57.311 It's pretty rare, but I was so excited about it. 00:28:57.651 --> 00:29:01.251 So what this does is, it's been around for 10 plus years. 00:29:01.711 --> 00:29:04.881 Um, it only fell on my radar recently, but it allows you to scan 00:29:04.901 --> 00:29:07.191 any basically consumable product. 00:29:07.681 --> 00:29:10.441 So anything you really see at a grocery store, I'm always out with 00:29:10.441 --> 00:29:12.011 my phone now with the app open. 00:29:12.401 --> 00:29:15.011 And I'm scanning products to see what their score out of 100 is 00:29:15.021 --> 00:29:16.381 in terms of health impact to me. 00:29:16.776 --> 00:29:18.426 What are the chemical additives? 00:29:18.426 --> 00:29:19.466 What's the sugar level like? 00:29:19.466 --> 00:29:21.806 And it gives it a score like, oh, this is a 38 out of 100. 00:29:22.006 --> 00:29:24.746 Here's other products that are similar to this ramen that are 00:29:24.796 --> 00:29:26.586 better for your health, right? 00:29:26.836 --> 00:29:28.266 So I love, I love using that. 00:29:28.366 --> 00:29:29.736 It's really changed how I shop. 00:29:30.375 --> 00:29:30.755 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:29:30.765 --> 00:29:33.665 I feel like I could definitely see myself using something like that. 00:29:33.685 --> 00:29:34.305 That'd be really 00:29:34.506 --> 00:29:36.346 Khurram: And a really cool founder story as well. 00:29:36.356 --> 00:29:40.296 I think there's two founders and they've come a long way and they have 00:29:40.296 --> 00:29:45.366 a really cool blog as well as a lot of health related, like how to be a better 00:29:47.446 --> 00:29:48.716 eater, for the most part, 00:29:49.225 --> 00:29:49.865 Raphaël: That's awesome. 00:29:50.245 --> 00:29:50.695 Sweet. 00:29:51.235 --> 00:29:51.615 Cool. 00:29:52.095 --> 00:29:52.755 Thanks, Kram. 00:29:52.865 --> 00:29:53.865 It's been, uh, 00:29:54.236 --> 00:29:57.666 Khurram: I hope I didn't, uh, I hope I didn't talk my ear off or talk too fast. 00:29:57.755 --> 00:29:58.695 Raphaël: No, this is great. 00:29:58.696 --> 00:29:59.205 No, no, no. 00:29:59.205 --> 00:30:00.445 This is, this is awesome. 00:30:00.445 --> 00:30:02.025 And I feel like I, it was fun. 00:30:02.035 --> 00:30:05.835 Like, it's always fun to, to, to learn about what, uh, what people 00:30:05.835 --> 00:30:07.925 do, but it's also like interesting. 00:30:08.395 --> 00:30:11.685 For me to speak to people who I already know 00:30:12.175 --> 00:30:12.745 Folks. 00:30:12.775 --> 00:30:16.155 That was my interview with Khurram Virani. 00:30:16.225 --> 00:30:19.435 Co-founder and CTO of lighthouse labs. 00:30:19.915 --> 00:30:24.815 Everything from, crashing on a couch for his first three months in Vancouver 00:30:24.845 --> 00:30:29.405 and how to develop curricula and how to bring tech education to people 00:30:29.405 --> 00:30:31.505 who haven't had access to it before. 00:30:31.505 --> 00:30:33.515 I really loved learning about his journey. 00:30:33.565 --> 00:30:35.455 It's always fun for me too. 00:30:35.522 --> 00:30:39.902 Learn about these things From people that I know, but whose journey I 00:30:39.902 --> 00:30:41.462 don't really know in that much depth. 00:30:41.492 --> 00:30:42.842 So I thought it was awesome. 00:30:43.152 --> 00:30:49.552 I care very, very deeply about expanding access to technology and getting more 00:30:49.552 --> 00:30:53.842 and more people building tech that serves their own needs their own purposes. 00:30:53.842 --> 00:30:55.132 I think that's really important. 00:30:55.192 --> 00:30:57.142 So I think lighthouse is doing something awesome. 00:30:57.142 --> 00:31:00.272 If you are not yet subscribed to the podcast, you can do that 00:31:00.272 --> 00:31:02.762 at sustainabletechpodcast.com. 00:31:03.092 --> 00:31:06.272 You can find us on YouTube on your favorite podcast app. 00:31:06.572 --> 00:31:11.192 Any sort of rating review all of that stuff helps us out a lot. 00:31:11.192 --> 00:31:12.812 So please do it. 00:31:12.812 --> 00:31:16.562 Yeah, we're a small team and, uh, everything you can do really helps us out. 00:31:16.562 --> 00:31:18.362 And we would really love any feedback. 00:31:18.392 --> 00:31:21.322 If there's anything you would like to hear about, like basically 00:31:21.322 --> 00:31:23.112 any feedback, shoot us a message. 00:31:23.382 --> 00:31:24.612 We'll take it into account. 00:31:24.712 --> 00:31:24.922 Yeah. 00:31:24.952 --> 00:31:25.972 We'd love to hear from you. 00:31:26.452 --> 00:31:30.852 If you want to show up on the podcast, let us know, shoot us an email at 00:31:30.852 --> 00:31:33.412 hello@sustainabletechpodcast.com. 00:31:33.472 --> 00:31:34.942 And we will get back to you. 00:31:34.942 --> 00:31:38.092 Especially if you're doing something in tech, something innovative to help 00:31:38.092 --> 00:31:40.282 create a more sustainable future. 00:31:40.282 --> 00:31:42.562 Economically socially, environmentally. 00:31:42.562 --> 00:31:45.322 In the meantime, we all want to do something good in the world. 00:31:45.322 --> 00:31:48.622 So go out there and build something good folks. 00:31:48.622 --> 00:31:50.422 I will see you in the next one. 00:31:50.692 --> 00:31:51.062 See ya.