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[MUSIC]

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Hello and welcome to this special edition of the EduTalks podcast.

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We have a live episode waiting for you.

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[MUSIC]

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Hello and welcome to the EduTalks podcast.

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This series, the visionary sessions is already special,

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but this episode today is even more special.

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You could almost call this special education.

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Today we're recording this episode with a live audience.

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And this is first of all a warm welcome to all of you for joining in.

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And we are sitting here in the learning and teaching lab in the middle of the campus,

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looking out over the O&O Square, the heart of education.

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It's been a little over a year since the vision on learning and teaching was introduced.

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And today we're going to talk to the writers about the content of it,

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and if any questions from the audience about this vision here.

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But first of all, let's introduce them.

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The three of them work together with a group of all sorts of stakeholders,

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students, teachers, colleagues to shape this vision on learning and teaching.

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And let's start out with the man that needs no introduction,

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the University of Twente's Rector Magnificus, Tom Veldkamp.

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Yes.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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We have the Vice Dean on Education from the Faculty of BMS,

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and also a full professor of Philosophy of Technology, Chano Aydin.

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Thank you.

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Welcome.

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And the Director of the Center of Educational Support, not service, I've learned my lesson,

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and the former Educational Director of the Leiden University College, Lieke Scheeuw.

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Good morning.

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Good morning. Welcome.

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So let's start out with the vision itself.

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We have 16 pages in this document that gives an outline of what education at our wonderful campus is like.

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When did this whole process get started, first of all?

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Maybe I can answer it.

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Actually, already when I was appointed as a Rector,

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there was the issue about vision on our master education.

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And during the process in developing this,

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there was a lot of interaction also with stakeholders.

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Actually, there was a clearly felt need that we need an overall vision on education.

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So it's in a way a step back.

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Instead of focusing on our master education, we started to focus on our education in general.

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So, and I think it's a more logical thing because it turned out we didn't have a clear vision.

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We had a lot of documents touching upon elements of the vision,

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but one integrated vision was lacking.

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But now we have one.

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Now we have one.

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And how did the others get involved in this?

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I think it was kicked off at the University Committee on Education.

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And that's why we had a lot of discussions.

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And both of them are a member.

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And they were initially we asked Siano to take the lead on this process.

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And then later Lieke joined.

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And then, of course, other people were involved.

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So it's actually, you could say it started off at the University Committee on Education.

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And how long did it take before we now finally had this vision last year presented to us?

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Maybe, I think less than maybe a one year, something like that.

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Something like that, yeah.

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I think a little bit over a year.

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And then we have the Borromean knot, did I pronounce it correctly?

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Yes.

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Being interconnected with three rings that you had a nice description on Monday, Lieke.

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How did you describe it again?

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There's three, a Borromean knot consists of three rings that are interconnected.

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And you cannot cut one loose without losing the hole.

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So if you cut one loose, all three will fall apart.

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Exactly.

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And you go by the title, Learning by Interacting, with all sorts of elements

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and different properties of how it's described and how it's emphasised.

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There's rings, there's elements.

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And I must say the nerd in me gets a bit of a fantasy vibe at that point.

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Lord of the Rings, those sort of things.

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That's why some of you already looked at it.

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I have a card game with me today.

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Each of you has a deck of four cards with part of my visionary quest.

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You may look at it as you now have different elements of the vision

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on learning and teaching.

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And I had my wonderful friend AI generate fantasy game cards for it.

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Now, what we're going to do to discuss the elements of this vision on learning

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and teaching, we won't be able to discuss all 10 elements in the three rings today.

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But what I will do, I have one card, Learning by Doing.

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I'll play that.

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Then it's over to Lieke on how you want to go about it.

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Is there an element that you have on your deck that you think is very important

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to get to this Learning by Doing?

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Then we'll discuss about it.

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- Okay, so now you want me to choose one of my four cards that's connected?

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- I'll play this card if you put it in the middle.

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Learning by Doing.

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And what card do you reply with it?

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- Of my four cards, I think Problem and Challenge-based Learning.

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- Okay.

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- Or Student Engagement.

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I'll go with Problem and Challenge-based Learning.

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- Why?

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- Why?

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Because that is a didactical method that forces almost students to learn by doing.

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So that's our educational model, right?

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Our students learn the theory, they go to the classes, they have the lectures,

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and things like that.

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But then in their projects or in challenge-based learning,

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they actually apply that to real-world situations, life situations,

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increasingly real as they progress through the program.

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And I think it's a very strong learning environment for our students because you

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understand how important the things are that you learn and you understand the

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context in which you can use that knowledge.

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And that will mean that it will settle much more in their brains and they will be able

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to use it much easier in the future.

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- Okay.

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- Yeah.

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And if you talk about Learning by Doing, I think that that is the strongest element

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from our didactical approaches.

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- To really tackle with challenges and problems to really put a foundation

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in the education there.

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- Yes.

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- All right.

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Let's get to the next card.

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How do you want to reply to challenge-based learning, Tom?

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- Well, I agree with engineering and design.

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I think that's actually the more traditional approach with many of the programs here at

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this university had before.

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But it's now more enriched because it's not only solving a problem and learning,

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so it's also learning by doing.

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But at the same, the reflection element is important.

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I think we actually, in the current education system,

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reflection is even more important.

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It's not only about the problem, but also about the impact in society

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and relevance in society.

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And that's also, if you scale it up, it's actually challenge-based learning is

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even more challenging because you actually have stakeholders involved

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in the process.

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And then, okay, and then I can even play more cards.

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I think that's a good step to add on to Likes story.

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- Let's continue the game.

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- Yeah.

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- Yeah, I'm hesitant a bit, actually.

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I consider teacher professionalization, but also self-development.

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Self-development is the other kind of main ingredient of the vision,

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but I go for teaching professionalization because both actually the engineering

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approach and the design approach and the learning by doing is something also

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that you need to learn.

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So teachers also need to acquire kind of new skills, new competences to be able

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to also teach their students learning by doing.

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And again, the idea is that you have a kind of a symmetrical relation with your

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students and also respond adequately to the environment in such a way that you

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take a problem or a challenge as a starting point and then together,

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in interaction with one another, try to kind of first understand what you're

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dealing with and you already then have different kind of approaches and

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perspectives and then together also try to contribute to this challenge,

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to this problem.

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And in the short and long run, of course, you also want to contribute to society.

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And I think that's also main kind of characteristic of our vision.

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- I think that's interesting because you are the scientific director of the

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BMS Teaching Academy and we have Lieke here as head of CES and therefore also

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CELT, the Center of Expertise in Learning and Teaching.

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How do you feel that's part of the vision then, those departments?

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I think those can help with professionalization.

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- Yeah, exactly.

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So just like I think in research, we continuously try to kind of improve our

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skills, our competences, go to conferences, maybe find even coaches that can,

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in one way or another, in different way, help us to develop ourselves.

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The same applies to teachers.

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So we want to teach a professionalization to become kind of an integral and

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structural part also of teacher developments and an infra kind of

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structure as the teaching academy can contribute to that.

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So it tries to also have an eye for educational developments and then

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sometimes tailor-made, sometimes more generic also respond to the needs and

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demands of teachers and help them to kind of make the necessary steps to also

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provide a state-of-the-art teaching that is required today.

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- And I think that ties in very well with what CELT does.

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We have our educational consultants who can, you know, assist teachers in very

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many areas and ideas and thoughts that they have, help them structure a curriculum,

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try out a new tool, work with the people in CELT if you find some technology

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enhanced learning that you want to implement.

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So I think it's a great combination and I think we also fully agree with Siano.

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And we have to keep in mind that even if the material that we teach,

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I think I said it on Monday as well, that, you know, gravity will continue to be

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gravity, that won't change.

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But the way we teach it can change and the students that we teach change as well.

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So you have to adapt your teaching methods to the students that are always to your audience.

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So I think the teaching academy in BMS and CELT can work very well together in that.

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- Okay.

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Then we're going to go around again and see how do you want to respond to the

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teacher professionalization, Lieke?

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- I'll go with reflexivity.

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- That's interesting because we just spoke about reflection earlier on.

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- Exactly. Yeah.

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I think reflection is essential in any kind of learning that you do,

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whether it's learning to ride a bike or learning something very complex that all

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our colleagues do here that I have no idea about.

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But reflect on your own behavior, your own learning, your own mistakes especially.

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Learn to make mistakes, take a risk, you know, hit your head in the wall,

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it's fine as long as you can reflect on what went wrong.

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And I think that's true for students and we should offer an environment in which they

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can make those mistakes and can learn from them, that's the most important thing.

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But it also applies to our teaching staff.

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They should also reflect on what they're doing and whether they're still teaching the

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right material, whether the situation around them and the demands from the labor market

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are changing, what the students demand, the programs demand, etc.

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So reflection I think is essential for indeed self-development,

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building inclusive communities and learning by doing.

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- We'll go on to the next part.

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- Yes, I play the building inclusive communities because I mean it's already

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shared before.

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I mean it's not about students, students and teachers, but also they can learn from

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each other and also not only within the program but also outside the program.

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So you build also links to society, other universities, other programs,

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and I think that's also one of the main things how you can do, you develop your

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reflexivity because do it on your own is very tough.

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But a lot of students actually learn from each other.

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Did you understand this?

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Can you explain this to me?

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That's sometimes more important than the teacher explaining it again.

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And of course the reflection should go both ways.

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Just like Lekke says, teachers should also reflect on the program.

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Am I still doing the right things?

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Are the students actually learning the things they should learn?

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And the students change and that's the only way to get into the program is actually

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actively work on these inclusive communities.

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The students we have now have other views on the world than the students 10 years

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and 20 years ago.

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So the program should be adaptive.

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And we see this, specifically since COVID, our society has changed.

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The priorities of our students are different than the students before COVID.

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How are they then?

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Sorry?

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How are they different then?

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What sort of aspects do students now like differently?

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Yes, I think they need more me time and also they are much more used to being

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involved in online communities.

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So there's a lot of interactions between students.

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Some students really had to learn again how to interact physically with peers

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instead of going online and doing lectures.

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And the other thing is, of course, that society is changing.

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You know, there's a lot of pressure felt by, let's say, the younger generation,

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the formal fear of missing out.

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And that's also why well-being and also stress-related issues are increasing.

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It's not only because of the study program, it's actually the whole society and the

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way they live in the society and perceive society, why our students are having,

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in that sense, a tougher time with well-being than the students before.

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It's also one of the elements that the well-being, I don't know who has the

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specific card, but I don't.

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We know which one you'll play after this.

244
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Let's go to Tjano.

245
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Yeah, that comes very easy, actually, because if you say inclusive communities

246
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and reflexivity, then self-development becomes very, very important.

247
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So I go for self-development, which is also the third kind of main goal of the vision.

248
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So it's learning by doing, inclusive communities, building inclusive

249
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communities and self-development.

250
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And it also relates to reflexivity because one of the goals of self-development,

251
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and you could say that reflexivity is kind of a means to realize that goal,

252
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is that you continuously kind of develop yourself in a particular direction and

253
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develop certain skills because we know that the world of tomorrow might be very

254
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different than the world of today.

255
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So also you need to work on yourself.

256
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You need to make yourself resilient in a particular way.

257
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And sometimes, and this is a possibility, maybe it's a cliche,

258
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we say that the jobs that we have today may not exist tomorrow.

259
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So you need to prepare yourself for tomorrow, which means that you need to

260
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develop yourself in such a way that you can kind of quite effectively respond to

261
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new situations and acquire knowledge, embody knowledge in a very quick way to

262
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adapt to new situations and new contexts.

263
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So that, and then self-reflexivity is very important.

264
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It also relates to building inclusive communities.

265
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And maybe I can say a bit more about that because when we start writing the vision,

266
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actually we consider Vista's triangle.

267
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But what we see in Vista is that he sees kind of the community tradition and

268
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self-development almost as animus in a certain sense because self-development,

269
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subjectivation as you call it, means that you need to detach yourself from,

270
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yeah, your kind of tradition almost to become fully autonomous.

271
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And we believe that self-development is only possible within kind of an adequate

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community so that also helps you to develop yourself and the other way around.

273
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So we see self-development and communities, so inclusive communities as

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kind of necessary conditions for one another.

275
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So that's really something that we deliberately chose as also a different

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approach than Vista, for example.

277
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Yeah, and it also relates to after finishing your studies, lifelong learning

278
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because it gives you the tools and the attitude to actually do lifelong learning

279
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in a much more effective way instead of, so lifelong learning is not going back to

280
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and follow lectures or something.

281
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It's actually very specific.

282
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What do you need for your self-development to develop yourself to the new needs of society?

283
00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:09,100
And I think this gives the students a foundation for successful lifelong development.

284
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:10,700
Yeah.

285
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:15,200
Let's see if the audience maybe has any questions about the topic so far on

286
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,600
visual learning and teaching.

287
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,600
Don't see anyone raising their head yet.

288
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:28,500
And we'll do a short intermezzo actually because it's time for some data-driven education.

289
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:33,200
We've let our specially trained machine learning algorithm analyze the visual learning

290
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,600
and teaching to see which words are most used apart from, of course,

291
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,800
function words like D and N.

292
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,600
And of course, the most used word is UT, University of Twente.

293
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,300
But which do you think is number two?

294
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:48,200
Is that students or learning?

295
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,900
Exactly as I frame it, so not student or learning by doing,

296
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:56,600
just the word learning or the word students?

297
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,600
I think students.

298
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:58,200
You think students?

299
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,000
I think learning.

300
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,200
You think learning?

301
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,800
I hope students, but I think it's learning.

302
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,800
But I do hope students because that's what we are doing it for.

303
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,400
Yeah.

304
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,000
So, raise hands if you think students is the most used word.

305
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000
You think students?

306
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,300
The other thing is learning.

307
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:16,800
The audience is right.

308
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,500
It's learning.

309
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:19,800
Learning is the most important, well, most important,

310
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,300
most used word in this vision on learning and teaching.

311
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,900
Well, that shows that we actually wrote it ourselves, right?

312
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:29,900
So, this is not AI generated.

313
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,700
This is a lot of hard work that we put into it.

314
00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:39,600
But does it go back to student-driven learning then?

315
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,000
Yes, certainly.

316
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,800
Yeah, so, yeah, that relates I think to all kind of components

317
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,300
and ingredients of the vision that, yeah,

318
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:55,700
the students also take his own kind of course of learning,

319
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:59,900
its own process in its own hands become responsible for it.

320
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:05,000
Of course, you gradually kind of you help the students to do

321
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,600
that by initially also setting goals.

322
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,500
But gradually you even want the students to almost,

323
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:16,600
of course, that is a very kind of radical form of student-driven

324
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,200
learning to even choose his own goals to contribute,

325
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,400
of course, larger kind of goals.

326
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,100
But the idea is that, yeah, the relation between student

327
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:30,600
and teacher is, as I indicated earlier, symmetrical.

328
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:36,600
So, we take also students as kind of as partners in an

329
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,400
endeavor that needs kind of different perspectives.

330
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,900
And sometimes the student perspective is as kind of

331
00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:51,200
valuable often it is and innovative than the teacher perspective.

332
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,400
And I think it's also nice to stress that we call this

333
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,200
division on learning and teaching and not teaching

334
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,000
and learning what you see often.

335
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,400
Why is that then?

336
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,600
Because you have to have an idea about how people learn

337
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,000
before you can decide how you teach.

338
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,300
The learning is essential.

339
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,800
And the teaching follows the learning,

340
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,400
how you think that your students will learn.

341
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,700
Yeah, and maybe also the teachers learn.

342
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:17,800
So, that of course relates to the teacher professionalization.

343
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,300
Yeah, it's learning together.

344
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:20,800
Learning together, yeah.

345
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,000
That's interesting.

346
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,600
We counted, it was 72 times the word learning was used

347
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,500
in 16 pages as a standalone word.

348
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,900
The plural word students, 56.

349
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:34,200
And then we have teachers indeed.

350
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,600
Of course, that's also used in combination words like

351
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,700
teacher professionalization, but purely the plural word

352
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:41,000
teachers 11 times.

353
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,100
So, that's really, I see the student-centered part and this

354
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:48,700
learning-centered part as a core piece of the vision.

355
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:50,400
We'll go back to our card game.

356
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,500
In Dutch, we use the phrase playing open card,

357
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,400
but crudely translated, which means to come clean and

358
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,800
just show the cards you're about to play.

359
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:04,600
I would like to ask you to put all the cards on the table.

360
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,200
I don't know which. All of them?

361
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,800
All of them, and make sure all of you three can try and

362
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:10,800
see them a bit.

363
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,600
Of course, with a full table with microphone wires and

364
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,200
everything there.

365
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,100
And small letters.

366
00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,100
And small letters.

367
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,700
They were fine for me.

368
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,900
Thank you.

369
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,700
Take from that what you want.

370
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:28,400
They are very nice cards, by the way.

371
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,800
You should check them out after.

372
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:30,900
Yeah.

373
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,300
As you've defined yourself, these are interconnected rings

374
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,800
and there's always going to be one connected to the other.

375
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,700
But I do want to ask if there's, for each of you, one card

376
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,500
you'd like to emphasize in a way forward with this vision

377
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,600
on learning and teaching.

378
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:46,400
What would it be?

379
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,800
Could be from your role as vice dean or as director or as

380
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,800
rector or something that you think is really, with these

381
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,500
sort of urgent times we're in now, are important.

382
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,100
So for each of you three, think it over.

383
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:02,700
Which do you think you want to pick as an important one to

384
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:06,600
really bring this vision further?

385
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,900
Well, maybe to kick off, I mean, somewhat longer term

386
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:13,500
vision, it's the digital unblended campus.

387
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:18,400
Because I think our teaching will change because it's too expensive.

388
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,800
I mean, we are faced already with budget cuts, but it seems

389
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,000
that society is also not willing to invest as much in teaching

390
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,300
and financial wise, but they still want the same output.

391
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:31,000
So one way to solve this, like I said, the new generation

392
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,200
is much more used on being in a digital environment,

393
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,500
is actually pushing towards a different kind of balance

394
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:42,300
between digital and physical learning and also do it

395
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,200
more together instead of every university by its own.

396
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,800
So I think in the long term vision, we are moving that way.

397
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,800
Think about every university has the same math courses.

398
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,700
Why do we have to duplicate everything?

399
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:01,000
Can we not work more efficiently together and then have

400
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,800
different ways of teaching math instead of just copying

401
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,300
the same way of teaching math between the different universities?

402
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:12,300
But that requires an open attitude instead of seeing each other

403
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,000
as competition.

404
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,000
You really work, then have to work towards one big university

405
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,500
in the Netherlands/Europe.

406
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:24,200
But that's again, it's a long vision, but I think we are pushed

407
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,000
in that direction.

408
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,300
And is it, you feel it's being pushed?

409
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,000
Do you also feel it's something that we as university really

410
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:31,800
want to do as well?

411
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,300
I think it has a lot of pros and cons.

412
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,000
We are pushed at the moment.

413
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000
So I think the changes will be more rapidly than we would like to.

414
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,600
But then of course academic institutions are quite conservative.

415
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,200
So changes are not going very fast.

416
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,600
We tend to spend a lot of time having all kinds of internal

417
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,300
discussions and making small steps.

418
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:58,400
Sometimes you have to make big steps and that's tough.

419
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,400
Going to the others, what card would you pick?

420
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,400
I think, of course, I mean, if you talk about the Borromean

421
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,700
North, you cannot choose.

422
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:06,900
They are all interconnected.

423
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:09,300
So they cannot do without each other.

424
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,300
But also because I do not have my glasses on, I take the closest

425
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,000
one, but it's also not completely kind of random.

426
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:23,000
I'll go for multi-inter and transdisciplinary because I do think

427
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,900
that if you take as a starting point grand challenges, big

428
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,300
problems, and we are facing grand challenges and big problem.

429
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:34,700
I mean, and this is also what makes I think the UT unique is

430
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:38,400
that multi-inter and transdisciplinary is just kind of, yeah,

431
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,000
you cannot do without.

432
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,600
At the same time, it's quite a challenge to do multi-inter and

433
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:45,800
transdisciplinary work.

434
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,700
It's something that you really need to kind of also learn to

435
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:54,000
do and our kind of unique position at the UT is that we have

436
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,700
both an engineering faculty and a social science faculty, large

437
00:23:58,700 --> 00:23:59,800
social science faculty.

438
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,700
So it is also possible to do really kind of balanced multi-inter

439
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,500
and transdisciplinary work because we have both expertises

440
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:13,700
here and lucky students you could say because they can profit

441
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:17,200
from both approaches and of course more than two.

442
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,200
I mean, they are also within the faculties and between the

443
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,600
faculties a lot of other kind of disciplines and this does not

444
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,400
mean that a disciplinary approach is irrelevant.

445
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,600
That remains also important, but it becomes even more important

446
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,000
if it's kind of able to interact with other disciplines and

447
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,400
other and then I mean again, we cannot kind of face and tackle

448
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,200
the problems, large global problems that we are facing with

449
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,100
and the main aim, the final aim of the university is making

450
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,300
the world a better place without multi-inter and transdisciplinary

451
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:56,300
work, something really that we need to invest in.

452
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,900
And then Ligge?

453
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:01,000
Yeah, I had the same problem as Ciano.

454
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,400
Any of the three that are in the Baromeo not, I can't pick

455
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,900
one, that's just impossible.

456
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:07,500
So I'll go with students and teacher well-being.

457
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:12,700
As Tom already said, we're facing huge budget cuts and I know

458
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:14,800
it's putting a lot of pressure on our teaching staff.

459
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,100
They have to do a lot of work and then the Dutch tracks have

460
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:23,600
to come in and all kinds of other exercises.

461
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,800
We have to do more with less or the same with less is a big

462
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:27,300
challenge.

463
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,500
So we really have to look after our teaching staff and make

464
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:32,600
sure that they can handle this and they have to deal with

465
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,300
students who are also struggling in a world that is changing

466
00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:36,800
rapidly.

467
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,000
It's changing every day.

468
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,900
There's conflicts, there's wars, there's natural disasters,

469
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:45,300
there's political instability, changing geopolitical factors

470
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:45,800
a lot more.

471
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,100
So the grand challenge is basically what Ciano was talking

472
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:51,300
about and we see that our students suffer from that.

473
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:53,900
There's so much uncertainty for them for their future and

474
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:56,900
that affects the way they study and they question what they

475
00:25:56,900 --> 00:25:58,100
study and whether it's relevant.

476
00:25:58,100 --> 00:25:59,200
Will they be able to get a job?

477
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,900
Will they be able to find a house to live or place to live?

478
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,100
Where will they live? Climate change.

479
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:08,000
And I think that that's a part where we really have to pay

480
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:08,400
attention.

481
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,100
So both to our teaching and also support staff, I should

482
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,400
say, because they are essential in our teaching process as

483
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,600
well to ensure that we can continue teaching with the same

484
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,300
aims, but perhaps in a different manner, but also make sure

485
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:25,900
that our students are equipped to deal with everything that

486
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:27,800
the world will continue to throw at them.

487
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,600
I think I see a question popping in from the audience.

488
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,100
Can you shortly introduce yourself?

489
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:37,600
Yes, my name is Marika, Marika Poldervaart and I'm partly

490
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,100
responsible for supporting the implementation of the vision,

491
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:45,200
although we do not want to drop it on everyone because it

492
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,100
comes from bottom up.

493
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:53,900
I have both a commercial break and a question because we

494
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:57,700
were talking about student well-being, teacher well-being

495
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,200
and next week, I don't know when this podcast is going to

496
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,800
be broadcasted, but next week on the 19th, we're having a

497
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:17,200
great event in the U hotel on campus in the context of the

498
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,100
Slimmer Collegiar, which is an experiment that is organized

499
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:27,700
by OCD and it's especially about making the study year, our

500
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:33,600
college years, more efficient for both teachers and students.

501
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,600
So that's all in the context of the vision.

502
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:42,500
But my question is whether there is something in the vision,

503
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:45,500
if you can name something in the vision besides the things

504
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:51,400
that were already mentioned, that really is inspiring for

505
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,900
other universities as well.

506
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,900
What happens in Twente that is, yeah.

507
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:01,500
So what's really unique about our university?

508
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,400
Student engagement.

509
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,400
Because I mean, this goes beyond the programs.

510
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,800
We really stimulate students to do a lot of student activism

511
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,300
activities, either in study programs, but also we have

512
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:15,000
the student union.

513
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,100
We're the only university in the Netherlands who have

514
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:18,000
the student union.

515
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,400
Gives them opportunities to organize, to have real world

516
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,800
experience in managing parts of university and of course

517
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:25,400
to kick in.

518
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,100
I mean, the main event every year for the new students is

519
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:31,600
organized by the students, for the students, and then our

520
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,400
staff is only supporting this.

521
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,000
So the students here are really in the lead in a lot of

522
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,600
activities to the student teams.

523
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,100
Solar team is an example.

524
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:43,900
These are typically, I think, related to student engagement.

525
00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:47,400
So that's both within the programs and outside of programs.

526
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200
So it's a integrated approach.

527
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:53,800
But I think this is a unique aspect of Twente, although

528
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,100
it's not well known.

529
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:56,100
Yeah.

530
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:57,600
How do we make it more known?

531
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,700
Yeah, I don't.

532
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:01,200
Yeah, that's another thing.

533
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,100
I mean, we have a lot of secrets for the rest of the country.

534
00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:09,500
Yeah, again, we are not like other universities shouting

535
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:10,600
all the time what we are doing.

536
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,200
So that's part of our culture to be a little bit more modest.

537
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,100
So very humble.

538
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:15,400
Maybe too humble.

539
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,800
At the same time, and in this digital time, I think sharing

540
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,800
and I really hope that the more online presence will increase

541
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,900
and give a lot of insight.

542
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,200
Also, a lot of students just sharing their experiences to

543
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,200
others actually might stimulate a lot of students to come

544
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,500
here, if they fit in, of course.

545
00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:35,600
Some students just like to learn.

546
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:36,400
That's fine.

547
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,900
But if you want to have more activism, please come to Twente.

548
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:41,000
You're welcome.

549
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,900
And I think if I interpret Marijke's question a bit differently,

550
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,900
what is different about our vision, I think is that we have

551
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:49,300
the baromea not at the center.

552
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,100
That we really thought about why are we teaching?

553
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,800
What is our purpose in teaching these students?

554
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,900
And other visions that I've seen also include some of the

555
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:01,500
other aspects that we have, but that why so centrally at

556
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:05,800
the center of it is I think what sets our vision apart.

557
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,400
Yeah, and maybe for me, of course, student engagement is

558
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,700
I think, I mean, that's the starting point.

559
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:15,900
But the reason why I came to the UT is, and I already mentioned

560
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:20,200
it kind of implicitly, is this connection, this relation

561
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,900
and collaboration between on the one hand, social behavioral

562
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:26,100
management sciences and on the other hand, engineering sciences.

563
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,100
Because I mean, of course, we are a technical university,

564
00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:33,300
but just to be a bit less modest than we are, usually are,

565
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:36,500
I think we are a better technical university because of

566
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:41,700
this kind of two approaches and that we try to also not

567
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:45,300
detach them from one another, but really see that they need

568
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,400
one another. You cannot do kind of good engineering if you

569
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,100
do not also take into account kind of the social environment

570
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:56,900
and what is going on there and how people respond to it

571
00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:01,600
and all kind of ethical kind of political issues.

572
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,900
And that's kind of quite a luxury that we have here.

573
00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,700
And I think we could also make that stronger to the outside

574
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:10,700
world that we really have something unique and special here.

575
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:13,300
So that's what that was, at least for me, the reason why

576
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:18,200
I really wanted to come here and work at the University of Twente.

577
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,300
And the campus.

578
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:22,400
And the campus.

579
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:23,500
I'll just throw the campus in.

580
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:24,200
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,000
That's fantastic.

582
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:25,700
It's fabulous.

583
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:28,500
We're nearing the end of this episode, but I'm curious

584
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:32,900
with all the elements, indeed, with the ideas, of course,

585
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:34,100
to bring this vision further.

586
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,400
Is there some element that you would like maybe to have

587
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,500
the input from this audience on, on how we can bring this further?

588
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:43,300
Yeah.

589
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:44,700
Go ahead.

590
00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:49,000
Now, maybe it is a bit political sensitive, but I will mention

591
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,600
it because I was looking at it actually all the time, international

592
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,800
connections, because I mean, of course, there is the whole

593
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,700
political debate about international students, but I do think

594
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:06,000
that and this is just part of and already implied in what

595
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,600
we said.

596
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,800
So the University of Twente cannot kind of exist in a vacuum.

597
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,500
So it is part of a larger milieu, larger ecosystem.

598
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:20,200
And although, of course, we take all kind of practical issues

599
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,900
into account, but we do not want to make distinctions that

600
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:25,700
are irrelevant.

601
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,800
So we believe in equality and we believe also that kind of

602
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:31,600
diversity.

603
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,200
So we are talking about inclusive communities could really

604
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,300
contribute also to what we are doing here.

605
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,400
So although it is kind of a difficult balancing because

606
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,800
sometimes you have practical kind of issues and considerations,

607
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,200
but also you have to know your own principles.

608
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,900
And I think it is an ongoing debate.

609
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:55,800
So the larger audience also should I think contribute to

610
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,100
that debate and we could also learn from them.

611
00:32:58,100 --> 00:33:01,200
So how to deal with the whole international kind of

612
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,900
internationalization debate is something

613
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:11,100
that I think also others could help us with and contribute

614
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:14,300
to. Is there anyone in the audience who wants to respond

615
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:14,700
to that?

616
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:15,600
We have one.

617
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,900
Can you shortly introduce yourself as well?

618
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:20,800
Yes, Jes from the UT, obviously.

619
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,600
Yes, internationalization I think is important, but sometimes

620
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,000
I think it's a little too narrow if we only focus on

621
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:28,900
internationalization.

622
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:31,300
What I think is valuable for the education is sort of a

623
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:36,100
diversity of thought in the groups, amongst the teachers

624
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:38,900
and sometimes internationalization doesn't give you a diversity

625
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:39,500
of thought.

626
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:43,600
If you take sort of the high socio-economical layers of Germany

627
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,300
and the Netherlands, it's not very diverse in thought.

628
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:49,600
So but for the education, I think the diversity of thought

629
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,300
is more important than diversity of nationalities or whatever.

630
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:54,700
Yeah, but I agree.

631
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:55,200
Yeah.

632
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,000
Yeah, I agree.

633
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,500
But I mean the point is that we do not want to make, for example,

634
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:06,300
borders that are actually for what we do irrelevant, kind

635
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:09,400
of relevant in the sense that we discriminate on the basis

636
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,100
of that.

637
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:13,600
But we do believe that if you talk about also diversity

638
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,400
of thought, if you look outside your own country, chances

639
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,100
are that you will find more diversity of thoughts.

640
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:23,600
And so that's a bit kind of the line of thought.

641
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,100
That leads us to some final Q&A with the audience.

642
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:29,100
Any final questions to our guests?

643
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:30,900
Yes, you're back.

644
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:32,500
Yes, we're back.

645
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:32,800
Yeah.

646
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,300
So yes, to implement this, we need, you know, you want

647
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:43,900
a high interaction between students and staff and we think

648
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:46,500
that's needed for one of, it's one of our rings that we want

649
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:47,400
to disconnect.

650
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,800
But at the same time, we are in a financial, you know, bit

651
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,400
of a pickle.

652
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:55,500
And I do believe, I agree with you Tom, that there could

653
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,000
be a way across it if we go to a more blended environment

654
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,100
type, so we sort of make cheaper what can be very well

655
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:04,200
made cheaper and then spend that time and money on what

656
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:04,500
it is there.

657
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:06,500
But that then requires that we cooperate.

658
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:10,100
And because of the financial pickle, we all sort of tend

659
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,300
to withdraw into the smallest units because then we're

660
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:16,700
now sort of in a financial competition on campus between

661
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:17,800
small units.

662
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,000
We shouldn't be, but that is the sort of the situation

663
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:21,300
we're in.

664
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:25,900
So I'm very curious on if there is a strategy to get past

665
00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:28,700
that to get to that, what could be a solution?

666
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:32,600
Yeah, one way to do it is actually to give the program

667
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,200
directors a little bit autonomy and actually designing

668
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,300
and also monitoring the program.

669
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:39,700
So what is actually done, which courses are offered and

670
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:40,300
by whom.

671
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:43,900
So then, and of course, then I expect them to operate on

672
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,000
behalf of the program, not behalf of the faculty they

673
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,000
are actually based from to make sure that the collaboration

674
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,500
between the faculties continues.

675
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:56,300
And I think it's also important to be, it's not only the

676
00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:58,500
activities you do in your program are relevant.

677
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:03,200
So for example, I think we do too many testing and examinations.

678
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,600
Just cutting back on that will also give you time actually

679
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,300
to really focus on what is really important is the interaction

680
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:11,000
with the students.

681
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,300
In the end, it's about the learning outcome of the project

682
00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:18,200
and not about what we actually, and that's tested at the

683
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,300
moment a lot, what we teach the students instead of what

684
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:21,900
they learn.

685
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:26,400
I think that we can still make big steps, but it's tough.

686
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,700
I know, I mean, traditionally we are trained and the way

687
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:34,400
we operate is actually making exams, but what we teach

688
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,800
has been understood, but we don't always check whether

689
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,600
they actually learned what they should learn.

690
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,800
Okay.

691
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,000
I mean, that's, I think.

692
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:46,500
Yeah.

693
00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:50,100
Looking in the audience for any final Q&A.

694
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:51,600
No.

695
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,100
Yes.

696
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:57,600
Yes, maybe from, I'm Niels, from the Center for Educational

697
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,700
Support, maybe from a different point of view.

698
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:04,900
I'm a communication science alumnus and I graduated in 2012.

699
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:08,900
How much has the education changed for students since then?

700
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:12,700
Because we adopted a new educational model and now we're

701
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:14,500
looking at the future of education.

702
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,700
So in a practical sense, how much is education for students

703
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:20,300
going to change?

704
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:25,200
Yeah, I personally can't tell you because then we should

705
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,200
actually check how much it has changed.

706
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,900
But I do know that when the TOM model was introduced, I was

707
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:35,700
then a Dean of a faculty at ITC, this really created a lot

708
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:40,900
of, let's say, yeah, discussions because things were really

709
00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:44,700
changing and people had to collaborate who were not used

710
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:45,400
to collaborate.

711
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,300
So, I mean, so this shaking up is always good to do.

712
00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:52,600
I'm not saying we should shake up for shaking up, but it's

713
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,600
good people are, should look outside the routines and think

714
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,000
a little bit outside the scope of their programs or of their

715
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,700
topics. And that's still in a master education.

716
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:08,000
We can still do a little bit more shaking up because that's

717
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,500
still very traditional.

718
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:11,800
Not much has changed in the master education.

719
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,100
Yeah, because sometimes from fellow students from back in

720
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:18,700
the day, I get questions like how much has the education

721
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:22,100
changed? And of course I can tell what the situation is right

722
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:26,800
now, but I was just curious about the future based on this

723
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:32,300
vision. I think maybe what has changed is that we became

724
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:37,600
more and more aware of the fact that our education is part

725
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,900
of a larger kind of ecosystem so that we really also want

726
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:45,900
to respond and interact with what is going on kind of outside

727
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:49,100
of us. And maybe one example is challenge based learning,

728
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:52,200
which is also something that we are integrating more and

729
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,400
more in our education, which takes us a starting point that

730
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,700
you take a problem, an issue, challenge that we even sometimes

731
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:06,600
do not completely understand and then try to use your tools,

732
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,000
your kind of skills and competences together to deal with

733
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,600
that. And then of course also communication, but also

734
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,200
inter and multidisciplinarity becomes very important.

735
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,300
So that awareness I think is something that has changed

736
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:22,600
our education.

737
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,500
And I think if we look to the future, I think flexibilization

738
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,400
is going to be a big thing, not only within programs, but

739
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,300
also cooperating with other universities.

740
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,300
So I'm going to take that course at that university and

741
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:36,800
let's contribute to my degree here.

742
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,700
For example, digitalization that Tom was already talking

743
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:43,200
about and the student centeredness that actually is at the

744
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,500
core of Tom, I think will further continue because our

745
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:49,400
students just change and they're more focused on their own

746
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,800
development and their own well-being.

747
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,100
And that means that we may have to change our educational

748
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:55,200
model as well to compensate for that.

749
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It's also a result of Corona where students could learn

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00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,900
at the moment that suited them best.

751
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So some of them are evening people and will listen to a

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00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:06,800
lecture, an online lecture in the evening, a recording,

753
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rather than having to be in a classroom here at nine o'clock.

754
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But I won't absorb what's being said.

755
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,000
So I think that kind of flexibilization is definitely part

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of the future of education.

757
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:19,200
Thank you Niels.

758
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,200
We're there.

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It's time to close off this recording.

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Thank you all first of all for joining me with the recording

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00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,300
of this podcast.

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00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:27,900
Can I have a short round of applause for them?

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00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:34,900
Thank you for listening to the special series of EduTalks.

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00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:37,800
This podcast was produced by the video team in collaboration

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00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,400
with the Strategy and Policy, Center of Explanation Learning

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00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,400
and Teaching, Technology Enhanced Learning and Teaching

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00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,500
Teams, and the BMS Teaching Academy.

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00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:46,800
We hope you listen along next time as well and don't forget

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00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,300
to subscribe and rate this podcast on your choice of platform.

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00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:51,400
Do you have ideas or you want to be featured in the next

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00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,600
episode? You can contact us through EduTalks@uTwenty.nl.

772
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,600
Thank you very much.

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[APPLAUSE]