WEBVTT

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Hi everyone, I'm Kali from Mixing Light and I'm

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here today talking to Peter Postma

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who's the Managing Director

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for the Americas at Film Light.

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Thank you so much for joining me

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Peter, it's such a pleasure to have you on.

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Yeah, thanks for having me.

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So you've had such an interesting career.

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I met you in your capacity as

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Managing Director at Film Light, but

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you have worked at Kodak as a

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colour engineer prior to that.

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And you are an alumni of

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Rochester Institute of Technology.

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So I just wanted to begin by talking to you about

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this career trajectory moving

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from Rochester to Kodak and then to Film Light.

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These are three real staples of our industry.

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So can you tell me a little bit

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about what you studied at Rochester and

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how that led you to Kodak?

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Yeah, I mean some of it was just kind of being in

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the right place at the right time,

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I guess.

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But initially, my interest was actually more in

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just kind of computer graphics and

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video games in particular.

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So I initially was

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studying computer science at RIT.

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But I quickly found that on the technical side of

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things, I wasn't learning

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anything in school that I couldn't, I kind of

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quickly learned myself just by

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reading textbooks and

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playing around and stuff like that.

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It was the creative side of making images and

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making movies that I needed

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feedback on.

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So after a year in computer science, I actually

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switched to the Department of

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Film and Animation and ultimately

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graduated with a Bachelor's of Fine Arts

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in Film and Animation.

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But as part of kind of my electives, of course, we

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have the Center for Imaging

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Science right next door to the School of Film and

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Animation says, "Oh, there's

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some interesting classes about

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colour and vision over there."

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So I started taking those and then, yeah, just kind

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of saw how I could kind of

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really tie together my interests on

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the technical side of things and my

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interests on the creative side of things by really

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focusing on colour for our

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industry.

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Because a lot of the resources out there for

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learning about colour and stuff like

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that are much more focused on print press work and

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stills and stuff like that.

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There wasn't a lot focused on

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the motion picture industry.

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So it's kind of an exciting area to study.

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Definitely.

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And it still feels a little bit like that.

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I mean, I think, like you

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said, right place, right time.

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Rochester is one of the only universities that I'm

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aware of that does teach colour

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science and imaging science

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in a really meaningful way.

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I certainly know that here

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locally, we don't have anything like it.

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And so after that, like Rochester and Kodak have a

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bit of a crossover of some

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kind.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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I mean, Rochester is an interesting town because it

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is kind of in the middle of

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nowhere, upstate New York, but it's the

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headquarters for Kodak, the headquarters

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for Xerox, the headquarters for Bausch & Loem,

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which is a big lens company of

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Corning who makes glass for

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all kinds of optical devices.

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So it really is this kind of hub of kind of optics

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and colour science and stuff

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like that.

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So, yeah, luckily, it was actually one of my

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professors in my last year at RIT who

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worked for Kodak and was just working as an adjunct

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professor who said, "Hey,

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there's this opportunity at

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Kodak you might want to apply for."

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And so I did.

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And yeah, I ended up being

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with Kodak for five years.

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But my first job there actually as just kind of an

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intern was actually looking at

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different kind of digital image processing

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techniques for their laboratory because it

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was really right at that cusp where things were

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starting to go from film to digital and

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what kind of tools that they want to have just for

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their own internal team to kind of

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assess and process images.

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Oh my goodness, that's

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fascinating to be on during that transition.

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And without implying anything about your age, can

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you tell me what year it was then?

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Yeah, this was around 2000.

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Yeah, around 2000.

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OK, so like a good 12 years before it kind of that

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that change to digital really

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happened in a sort of commercial way.

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Yeah, so it was actually 2001 that I moved out to

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Los Angeles with Kodak because I

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was initially just in Rochester.

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And I worked I was still officially in Kodak, but I

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worked right next door to

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Cinecite, which was the place

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where some of the first DIs were done.

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So it was right after 'O Bropther, Where Art Thou?'

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and one or two other films had

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been finished. So really right at

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the forefront of that whole DI thing.

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And I remember, yeah, I was on the team that helped

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build and deploy the first hardware

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that could apply a 3D lookup table in real time.

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So it was this crazy sun microsystems computer with

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all these FPGAs in it just to be

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able to process a 3D LUT in real time so the colorist

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could see what the film would look

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like once they went to record and print it out.

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So which is such a simple thing that every color

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corrector does now you apply LUTs all

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the time, you apply three or four.

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But yeah, back at the time, that was quite novel.

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So that's unreal.

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I mean, we really take it

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for granted now, don't we?

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And was it during that time that you were part of

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the ASE committee to develop the CDL?

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Yep. So right when the ASE Technology Committee

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formed, luckily, the first meeting just

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happened to be on Kodak property.

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So I managed to get in the room, so

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to speak, and start talking about it.

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And yeah, because I already had some experience

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supporting digital intermediate at that

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point. Yeah, I was part of those early discussions

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as to building the CDL because it

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was quite clear at that time

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that things were going digital.

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But also just for supporting film, you know, it

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used to be you would actually have

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you'd either rent out a movie theater on location

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or have like a trailer with a

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projector and it's actually do film dailies.

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And so this is around the time when film dailies

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were going away and digital dailies were

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starting to take over.

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So you were scanning the

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film on a telecine every day.

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But the directors of photography saw that they were

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kind of losing a key bit of

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feedback that they got from the lab because it used

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to be, you know, you could look at

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what your printer lights were every day and know

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kind of how things are going if you

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needed to like overexpose a little more underexpose

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a little more just if the film

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from the last day was good.

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But when you just get, you know, a DVD or something

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with your dailies on it, you don't

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really know, did the telecine operator have to do a

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whole bunch of work to make those

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dailies look good or were they just, you know,

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sliding right into place as they should.

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So the CDL was originally kind of thinking as a way

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to be able to give feedback to DPs

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to say, here's some specific numbers so you can see

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if it is in fact being consistent

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every day or if something changed and then, oh,

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maybe there's a problem with the film or

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a problem with the camera or something else with

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exposure, we need to go back and check

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to provide that kind of key bit of feedback.

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I love that idea that the CDL isn't, you know, it's

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so much of a grade as it is a

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communication tool between the departments because,

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you know, that kind of ties into

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how CDLs are used now throughout the whole process.

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They're communicating that idea from set through to

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VFX and through to DI if you want

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to if you want to start there.

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And to have people who could look at those numbers

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and say, oh, this is what they must

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have done, you know, it just never occurred to me

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that that was happening on the camera

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side. So, yeah, that's really cool.

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I mean, with printer lights, it does seem a little

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bit more straightforward to say, oh,

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they put in, you know, a stop of red or took out a

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stop of blue or what have you.

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But, you know, being only 10 numbers on a CDL, you

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could you could look at it and say,

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oh, yeah, they changed the

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contrast and they offset it up a bit.

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So. Right.

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Well, and that's actually one of the reasons why we

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went with a slope offset power for

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CDL rather than lift gamma gain is because in

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normal like lift gamma gain controls, there

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is no straight offset.

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So if you wanted to do just printer lights, you

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actually need to combine, you know, two

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or three controls to do that.

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But when you have offset,

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that can be your printer light.

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So if you if you do want to kind of stay more in

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that kind of printer light mode, only

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have three numbers to work about.

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You can just use the offset part of the CDL.

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And so you only have to track three numbers still.

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So that would all still work.

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And the beauty of that as well,

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that it's completely invertible.

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You know, anything that goes up can

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just come down again or vice versa.

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So you maintain the linearity of the negative,

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which is, you know, just a really great and

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useful thing to have for other departments anyway.

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Right. Yeah.

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Yeah. So it's interesting to me that you've kind of

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been a part of these committees along

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the way that have in a really large way shaped the

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workflows and the way that we work

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every day.

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And yet you're sort of not like

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a household name, so to speak.

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But you've certainly been there and kind of

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developed the way that we work today digitally.

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And you're continuing to do that.

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And I know I was skipping ahead a little bit, but

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you're part of the ACES project at the

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moment as well, aren't you?

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Can you tell me a little bit about that?

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Yeah, I mean, actually, I started with ACES again

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very early on, probably over 16 years ago.

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I mean, when the first seeds of ACES were planted.

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So it was actually while I was still at Kodak.

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And there was already this recognition that, again,

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things are going digital.

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We should have some kind of industry

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standard for how to process images.

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And it took a good I think it was close to 10 years

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before ACES 1.0 finally came out and

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everyone could agree on, OK, this is kind of at

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least a good first step, if not, you know,

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everything we wanted it to be.

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So, yeah, that was really just kind of

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encapsulating some of the best practices of the

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industry at the time to how to

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set up a color managed workflow.

267
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.458
And that work continues because, again, when ACES

268
00:09:33.458 --> 00:09:35.875
started, it was still very, very film

269
00:09:35.875 --> 00:09:38.000
centric. It was keeping in mind, like a lot of time

270
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:39.666
was spent on, OK, how do we bring film

271
00:09:39.708 --> 00:09:41.208
scans in to ACES and how

272
00:09:41.208 --> 00:09:42.208
do we get back out to film?

273
00:09:42.958 --> 00:09:44.833
And of course, these days, that's not so much of a

274
00:09:44.833 --> 00:09:47.166
concern as dealing with all the different

275
00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:49.250
digital cameras, dealing with high dynamic range

276
00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:50.916
display devices and all that kind of

277
00:09:50.916 --> 00:09:53.916
stuff. So, yeah, the ACES committee is getting

278
00:09:53.916 --> 00:09:56.958
pretty close to releasing ACES 2.0, which is

279
00:09:56.958 --> 00:09:59.166
a kind of major upgrade that more directly takes on

280
00:09:59.166 --> 00:10:01.625
those concerns of, yes, super wide

281
00:10:01.625 --> 00:10:04.333
gamut devices, both on the camera and the display

282
00:10:04.333 --> 00:10:06.125
end and dealing with different dynamic

283
00:10:06.250 --> 00:10:07.166
ranges and all that kind of

284
00:10:07.166 --> 00:10:08.833
stuff in an even better way.

285
00:10:09.583 --> 00:10:11.416
And that would be I mean, there's recent

286
00:10:11.416 --> 00:10:16.375
developments in LED walls, you know, and Unreal

287
00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.500
Engine and, you know, utilizing backgrounds that

288
00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:23.333
have very saturated and potentially like out of

289
00:10:23.333 --> 00:10:26.000
gamut kind of luminosity and colors to them.

290
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:27.458
Is that part of what you're

291
00:10:27.458 --> 00:10:29.333
looking at with ACES 2.0 as well?

292
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.791
Yes, I mean, ACES was always designed to be able to

293
00:10:34.791 --> 00:10:37.166
kind of accommodate any possible color.

294
00:10:37.625 --> 00:10:40.708
So any color the human eye can see, you know, is

295
00:10:40.708 --> 00:10:42.833
able to be put in an ACES container.

296
00:10:44.083 --> 00:10:46.041
And there's certain issues that,

297
00:10:46.041 --> 00:10:47.833
you know, ACES can't solve for you.

298
00:10:47.833 --> 00:10:49.458
But certainly it could be, again, that good

299
00:10:49.458 --> 00:10:51.750
foundation, that color managed

300
00:10:51.750 --> 00:10:53.416
workflow that things then fit into.

301
00:10:53.791 --> 00:10:56.500
So it's not going to have like a push button simple

302
00:10:56.500 --> 00:10:58.833
fix to make your screen match

303
00:10:58.833 --> 00:11:00.000
your camera and stuff like that.

304
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.000
But it's part of the workflow you set up that makes

305
00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.708
that stuff easier and should make

306
00:11:03.708 --> 00:11:05.375
it consistent so that you can use the

307
00:11:05.375 --> 00:11:07.625
same approach no matter which LED wall you're

308
00:11:07.625 --> 00:11:08.791
shooting with or which camera you're shooting with.

309
00:11:08.791 --> 00:11:14.250
That I think is the biggest thing is to not have to

310
00:11:14.250 --> 00:11:16.541
be dependent on like, you know, different specific

311
00:11:16.541 --> 00:11:18.708
manufacturer solutions so that like,

312
00:11:18.708 --> 00:11:21.458
OK, if I'm shooting with a Samsung wall one day and

313
00:11:21.458 --> 00:11:23.208
a Sony wall the other, I have to do like completely

314
00:11:23.208 --> 00:11:24.750
different techniques just to bring it

315
00:11:24.833 --> 00:11:27.250
again to a basic industry standard, then you could

316
00:11:27.250 --> 00:11:28.791
put your special sauce on top of that.

317
00:11:28.791 --> 00:11:30.541
But at least the basic workflow is the same no

318
00:11:30.541 --> 00:11:31.166
matter what you're doing.

319
00:11:32.166 --> 00:11:34.916
It's fascinating, like the complexity of that and

320
00:11:34.916 --> 00:11:36.541
just trying to deal with all of the variations.

321
00:11:37.416 --> 00:11:39.750
Has there been anything particularly challenging

322
00:11:39.750 --> 00:11:43.125
technology technology wise along the way, like, you

323
00:11:43.125 --> 00:11:45.333
know, in terms of film going out and

324
00:11:45.333 --> 00:11:48.250
digital coming in or any particular technologies

325
00:11:48.250 --> 00:11:50.291
that have been tough nuts to crack?

326
00:11:52.375 --> 00:11:53.500
That's a good question.

327
00:11:53.791 --> 00:11:57.958
I mean, I consider myself very lucky to have

328
00:11:57.958 --> 00:12:00.666
started my career when film was still around so

329
00:12:00.666 --> 00:12:04.375
that I could learn like a lot from the limitations,

330
00:12:04.625 --> 00:12:07.625
really, of the photochemical process, but how much

331
00:12:07.625 --> 00:12:10.666
the engineers at Kodak were able to do to get like

332
00:12:10.666 --> 00:12:12.291
great looking images out of that.

333
00:12:14.250 --> 00:12:17.041
And to me, you know, being the young guy in the

334
00:12:17.041 --> 00:12:18.833
room, a lot of times in those days, it was quite

335
00:12:18.833 --> 00:12:20.166
clear that digital was the future.

336
00:12:20.166 --> 00:12:22.541
That film only had so much life left on it.

337
00:12:22.541 --> 00:12:24.500
But there were a lot of lessons learned that could

338
00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:27.166
then be applied in digital and

339
00:12:27.166 --> 00:12:29.958
digital should be a lot simpler because,

340
00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.583
you know, there's so much intricacy involved in the

341
00:12:33.583 --> 00:12:35.666
photochemical process for film.

342
00:12:36.208 --> 00:12:37.958
You know, there's this whole industry that supports

343
00:12:37.958 --> 00:12:42.125
all the different technologies that you need to be

344
00:12:42.125 --> 00:12:44.000
able to lay down the chemicals

345
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:45.750
on a strip of film to expose it.

346
00:12:45.750 --> 00:12:48.333
But then also the laboratories which can then

347
00:12:48.333 --> 00:12:50.000
develop it and turn that into

348
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.000
an actual image and everything.

349
00:12:51.208 --> 00:12:53.583
You know, if someone were to try to build that

350
00:12:53.583 --> 00:12:55.500
infrastructure today, it would just be impossible.

351
00:12:56.083 --> 00:12:57.750
Whereas digital is supposed to.

352
00:12:57.750 --> 00:12:59.166
I thought digital was going to be a lot simpler.

353
00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:00.583
You know, it's just like you've

354
00:13:00.583 --> 00:13:01.958
got pure numbers you can look at.

355
00:13:01.958 --> 00:13:03.166
You can go back to those same numbers.

356
00:13:03.375 --> 00:13:04.166
You know, you have that magical

357
00:13:04.166 --> 00:13:06.125
undo button that we have in in digital.

358
00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:10.500
But yeah, because as you say, there's constant

359
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:12.125
technology changes, there's new sensor

360
00:13:12.125 --> 00:13:14.083
technologies, there's new display technologies.

361
00:13:14.833 --> 00:13:16.625
That's, I think the trickiest part really is not

362
00:13:16.625 --> 00:13:20.000
any one particular device that has or technology

363
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.500
that's that's presented a problem.

364
00:13:23.666 --> 00:13:25.916
It's just you have to keep up with all these

365
00:13:25.916 --> 00:13:27.541
different things that are being produced in all

366
00:13:27.541 --> 00:13:29.250
these different corners of the workflow that then

367
00:13:29.250 --> 00:13:31.083
keep pushing it and evolving it.

368
00:13:32.416 --> 00:13:34.458
And I think the biggest change, obviously, in the

369
00:13:34.458 --> 00:13:36.375
last few years has been high dynamic range

370
00:13:36.375 --> 00:13:39.291
displays, both, you know, laser projectors in the

371
00:13:39.291 --> 00:13:40.750
theater that can get a lot brighter and a lot

372
00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:41.750
darker, so much better

373
00:13:41.750 --> 00:13:45.166
contrast and HDR displays in the home.

374
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.333
And we did some very early work with Filmlight with

375
00:13:50.333 --> 00:13:53.583
Dolby, you know, on their early HDR kind of

376
00:13:53.583 --> 00:13:55.208
technology and stuff like that.

377
00:13:56.458 --> 00:13:59.583
But the biggest hurdles, I think, for HDR actually

378
00:13:59.583 --> 00:14:01.875
ended up not being technical.

379
00:14:02.750 --> 00:14:04.541
They ended up being creative. It's like, OK, we now

380
00:14:04.541 --> 00:14:06.166
have this widely expanded palette.

381
00:14:06.541 --> 00:14:08.208
How are we going to take advantage of it?

382
00:14:08.458 --> 00:14:09.791
And I think that's something we're still kind of

383
00:14:09.791 --> 00:14:11.333
figuring out as an industry is,

384
00:14:11.333 --> 00:14:13.291
yeah, what's the best way to use HDR?

385
00:14:13.541 --> 00:14:14.833
And that answer is often

386
00:14:14.833 --> 00:14:16.083
different for every project.

387
00:14:16.083 --> 00:14:18.375
You know, how much of that extended highlight

388
00:14:18.375 --> 00:14:20.166
range, how much of that extended saturation range

389
00:14:20.166 --> 00:14:21.250
do you want to take advantage of?

390
00:14:21.666 --> 00:14:23.708
And when do you know when to kind of be reserved

391
00:14:23.708 --> 00:14:25.750
and not pushed it just because it's there?

392
00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:29.458
Yeah, those aesthetic, you know, the aesthetics of

393
00:14:29.458 --> 00:14:30.666
standard dynamic range have

394
00:14:30.666 --> 00:14:32.166
been around for 100 years.

395
00:14:32.166 --> 00:14:35.041
And, you know, we we kind of have a sense of where

396
00:14:35.041 --> 00:14:38.333
culturally we think skin tones should see it and

397
00:14:38.333 --> 00:14:40.000
where highlights should sit.

398
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.791
But we're kind of like you say,

399
00:14:41.791 --> 00:14:44.375
it's a new frontier creatively as well.

400
00:14:45.041 --> 00:14:47.583
And I think another level of complexity, which I'd

401
00:14:47.583 --> 00:14:50.250
love to understand as well, is that, you know,

402
00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:53.000
working for companies like Kodak and now Filmlight,

403
00:14:53.583 --> 00:14:55.541
you're in a position to be

404
00:14:55.541 --> 00:14:58.208
supporting and contributing globally.

405
00:14:59.125 --> 00:15:02.375
And, you know, different cultures and different

406
00:15:02.375 --> 00:15:03.833
locations have different standards.

407
00:15:04.125 --> 00:15:06.791
So, you know, sometimes I forget that there are a

408
00:15:06.791 --> 00:15:09.750
whole other workflows out there and whole other

409
00:15:09.750 --> 00:15:13.125
displays, you know, in China and in,

410
00:15:13.125 --> 00:15:15.708
you know, the East and other places.

411
00:15:17.291 --> 00:15:21.666
Can you comment at all about dealing with those

412
00:15:21.666 --> 00:15:23.416
kinds of different cultural

413
00:15:23.416 --> 00:15:25.666
culturally used technologies as well?

414
00:15:25.875 --> 00:15:28.541
I don't know how to say that properly, but yeah,

415
00:15:28.541 --> 00:15:31.333
no, I think, you know, because I

416
00:15:31.333 --> 00:15:33.333
am more on the technology side,

417
00:15:33.458 --> 00:15:35.291
you know, helping the creatives do what they do.

418
00:15:35.875 --> 00:15:39.875
My biggest thing is just to provide the tools that

419
00:15:39.875 --> 00:15:42.708
people can take it so they can take advantage of

420
00:15:42.708 --> 00:15:46.000
those new technologies and kind of guide them a

421
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.416
little bit as to how we think

422
00:15:47.416 --> 00:15:48.291
they're supposed to be used.

423
00:15:48.291 --> 00:15:50.375
But then listening to the creatives once they say,

424
00:15:50.375 --> 00:15:52.041
oh, I like this, I don't like this and just

425
00:15:52.041 --> 00:15:53.250
constantly evolving that.

426
00:15:54.125 --> 00:15:55.041
And yeah, you're right. It can be

427
00:15:55.041 --> 00:15:56.666
very different for different cultures.

428
00:15:57.041 --> 00:15:59.416
I mean, even if you look at just like stereoscopic,

429
00:15:59.958 --> 00:16:03.000
you know, which had a big resurgence a couple of

430
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.083
years ago, it's still actually quite huge in China.

431
00:16:06.083 --> 00:16:07.791
For whatever reason, in China, they really like

432
00:16:07.791 --> 00:16:09.333
their stereoscopic 3D movies.

433
00:16:09.333 --> 00:16:11.833
So we still have to maintain our 3D tools, even

434
00:16:11.833 --> 00:16:15.125
though it's much less common, you know, in the US

435
00:16:15.125 --> 00:16:16.833
and Europe and some other parts of the world.

436
00:16:18.666 --> 00:16:20.708
So, but yeah, so we maintain all those tools.

437
00:16:20.708 --> 00:16:23.250
And if, you know, someone in our sides of the world

438
00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:24.291
wants to take advantage of it,

439
00:16:24.291 --> 00:16:25.333
they're there to take advantage of it.

440
00:16:25.375 --> 00:16:26.833
But if they don't, they don't have to.

441
00:16:27.583 --> 00:16:32.375
So we've talked about being at Rochester and Kodak.

442
00:16:32.583 --> 00:16:34.000
What was the work that you were

443
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.958
doing at Kodak as a color engineer?

444
00:16:36.166 --> 00:16:38.375
Like, what would a day look like in that role?

445
00:16:40.083 --> 00:16:42.166
So initially, as I said, it was kind of just

446
00:16:42.166 --> 00:16:45.000
evaluating software tools that were in the industry

447
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.166
for people at the research lab at Kodak to use.

448
00:16:48.583 --> 00:16:51.375
So it was because Kodak, of course, had developed

449
00:16:51.375 --> 00:16:54.000
the the Cineon software, which was on the first

450
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.458
digital compositing software.

451
00:16:55.916 --> 00:16:56.583
And that used to be their

452
00:16:56.583 --> 00:16:58.000
own internal tool as well.

453
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.291
But once Kodak abandoned that, you know, again,

454
00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:01.791
technology and industry moved on.

455
00:17:01.791 --> 00:17:03.875
So they need to needed to move on to.

456
00:17:03.875 --> 00:17:05.750
So I was helping them evaluate, OK, what can they

457
00:17:05.750 --> 00:17:07.666
do with Shake, which is another compositor or

458
00:17:07.666 --> 00:17:08.916
Raise, which was a new compositer

459
00:17:08.916 --> 00:17:10.083
at the time that was coming out.

460
00:17:11.208 --> 00:17:12.625
And also just different tools for

461
00:17:12.625 --> 00:17:14.791
dealing with digital still cameras.

462
00:17:15.958 --> 00:17:18.791
And so actually, once I had kind of done my initial

463
00:17:18.791 --> 00:17:20.875
evaluation, those different devices, that's when I

464
00:17:20.875 --> 00:17:23.666
got involved in a project which eventually be

465
00:17:23.666 --> 00:17:26.250
called the Kodak Look Management System, where you

466
00:17:26.250 --> 00:17:29.416
could take an image with a digital still camera and

467
00:17:29.416 --> 00:17:31.416
then put that through a film emulation to see,

468
00:17:31.791 --> 00:17:32.791
well, what would this look like if I

469
00:17:32.791 --> 00:17:34.583
shot with, you know, 5218 negative?

470
00:17:34.583 --> 00:17:35.666
Or what would it look like if I

471
00:17:35.666 --> 00:17:37.541
shot with a slower speed film?

472
00:17:37.875 --> 00:17:39.125
What would it look like if I did a

473
00:17:39.125 --> 00:17:40.500
bleach bypass or things like that?

474
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.583
So we had these digital emulations

475
00:17:42.583 --> 00:17:44.083
of all these photochemical processes.

476
00:17:45.583 --> 00:17:48.916
And so when the director and the DP are on set

477
00:17:48.916 --> 00:17:51.416
deciding, you know, what stock they want to go to,

478
00:17:51.416 --> 00:17:52.750
what film process they want to use, they could

479
00:17:52.750 --> 00:17:55.583
shoot an image with a digital still camera on the

480
00:17:55.583 --> 00:17:57.166
day, put it through the software and

481
00:17:57.166 --> 00:17:58.291
emulate all those different things.

482
00:17:59.291 --> 00:18:01.458
So for a couple of years, I was involved in that

483
00:18:01.458 --> 00:18:04.958
project and managing, yeah, kind of profiling

484
00:18:04.958 --> 00:18:07.750
different SLR cameras to get them into that

485
00:18:07.750 --> 00:18:09.583
software and then making sure we're accurately

486
00:18:09.583 --> 00:18:11.708
emulating those different different processes.

487
00:18:13.250 --> 00:18:15.833
What kind of tools did you use to do that?

488
00:18:16.125 --> 00:18:19.500
Were you like, you know, looking at things through

489
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:21.583
a microscope or, you know,

490
00:18:22.208 --> 00:18:23.583
like how does one do that?

491
00:18:24.291 --> 00:18:27.125
It really is a mix of things.

492
00:18:27.916 --> 00:18:30.166
And a lot of it was kind of just homegrown by some

493
00:18:30.166 --> 00:18:32.791
of the color scientists I work with and just kind

494
00:18:32.791 --> 00:18:33.833
of evolved over the years.

495
00:18:34.208 --> 00:18:36.541
So a lot of it was just standard densitometry.

496
00:18:36.791 --> 00:18:38.541
So, you know, like you record out a bunch of film

497
00:18:38.541 --> 00:18:41.291
patches or different densities on film and then

498
00:18:41.291 --> 00:18:42.458
measure that with a densitometer.

499
00:18:42.666 --> 00:18:44.958
And you take that information and or you measure it

500
00:18:44.958 --> 00:18:46.750
with a spectrophotometer so you can get the full

501
00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:48.750
spectrum of the light that's shining through the

502
00:18:48.750 --> 00:18:50.875
film and capture that and put it into your model.

503
00:18:52.041 --> 00:18:54.458
For profiling like the digital still cameras, we

504
00:18:54.458 --> 00:18:56.916
actually came up with this little device that had a

505
00:18:56.916 --> 00:18:59.666
piece of dichroic glass in it that you could slide

506
00:18:59.666 --> 00:19:00.750
up and down to basically

507
00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:02.583
capture the full spectrum of light.

508
00:19:02.583 --> 00:19:04.666
So we had a full spectrum white light behind this

509
00:19:04.666 --> 00:19:07.000
dichroic glass that you could shift in like exact

510
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.666
increments and basically take a

511
00:19:08.666 --> 00:19:10.458
whole bunch of stills to profile.

512
00:19:10.958 --> 00:19:12.750
So basically how it was seeing each wavelength of

513
00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:15.166
light and get a full profile then of how the

514
00:19:15.166 --> 00:19:18.375
sensor, how that digital sensor reproduced light,

515
00:19:18.708 --> 00:19:21.166
match that up with your measurements of the film.

516
00:19:21.166 --> 00:19:22.416
And that's how you kind of got

517
00:19:22.416 --> 00:19:23.583
the emulation between the two.

518
00:19:24.166 --> 00:19:27.041
So that's unreal. I mean, that kind of physical

519
00:19:27.041 --> 00:19:30.458
thing, you know, I just I don't think a lot of us

520
00:19:30.458 --> 00:19:32.958
actually take into account that there are like

521
00:19:32.958 --> 00:19:34.875
prisms and bits of glass.

522
00:19:35.041 --> 00:19:36.500
Like, you know, that feels like something that

523
00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:39.291
happened in like the 1800s when they were first

524
00:19:39.291 --> 00:19:40.458
learning about the different

525
00:19:40.458 --> 00:19:42.041
colors of light and things, you know.

526
00:19:42.458 --> 00:19:45.833
But obviously it's still a part of practice today,

527
00:19:45.833 --> 00:19:48.000
just in a more sophisticated way.

528
00:19:48.708 --> 00:19:51.875
But I've never once in my life, you know, gotten a

529
00:19:51.875 --> 00:19:54.833
prism and looked at looked at light through it.

530
00:19:54.833 --> 00:19:56.583
I just think, wow, that's really interesting.

531
00:19:57.875 --> 00:20:00.791
And so what when you moved over to FilmLight, were

532
00:20:00.791 --> 00:20:02.708
you doing similar kinds of work there

533
00:20:02.708 --> 00:20:05.041
or was that a bit of a shift for you?

534
00:20:05.458 --> 00:20:08.583
It was a bit of a shift, but not not radically.

535
00:20:08.583 --> 00:20:12.041
So my first job at Filmlight was supporting our

536
00:20:12.041 --> 00:20:13.541
Truelight color management software.

537
00:20:13.958 --> 00:20:14.875
And it was going in and

538
00:20:14.875 --> 00:20:17.333
helping people calibrate their D.I.

539
00:20:17.333 --> 00:20:19.916
Theaters to match, you know, what they were

540
00:20:19.916 --> 00:20:21.666
ultimately going to see on film, because at that

541
00:20:21.666 --> 00:20:23.708
time film was still considered

542
00:20:23.708 --> 00:20:25.583
the hero deliverable for most shows.

543
00:20:25.791 --> 00:20:27.625
Digital cinema was already starting to roll out.

544
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.000
But since most people were seeing theater, most

545
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.041
directors were used to seeing film in a theater,

546
00:20:32.458 --> 00:20:33.583
they kind of considered film

547
00:20:33.583 --> 00:20:35.250
their main primary deliverable.

548
00:20:35.250 --> 00:20:37.125
So they wanted to make sure when they're color

549
00:20:37.125 --> 00:20:39.291
grading in D.I. that they're seeing as close as

550
00:20:39.291 --> 00:20:40.291
possible with the film is

551
00:20:40.291 --> 00:20:41.291
ultimately going to look like.

552
00:20:42.333 --> 00:20:44.333
So that was, again, yeah, measuring film with 

553
00:20:44.333 --> 00:20:46.750
densitometers to make sure we're accurately profiling

554
00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:50.000
the output of, you know, that facility specific

555
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.208
film recorder and the lab

556
00:20:51.208 --> 00:20:52.125
that they were working with.

557
00:20:52.916 --> 00:20:57.333
And then measuring with a probe the projector to

558
00:20:57.333 --> 00:20:58.833
see how it's reproducing light.

559
00:20:58.833 --> 00:21:00.500
And again, you know, meshing those two together to

560
00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:01.666
make the digital projector

561
00:21:01.666 --> 00:21:03.875
look as close as possible to film.

562
00:21:04.958 --> 00:21:06.666
So, yeah, there's a lot of running around.

563
00:21:06.666 --> 00:21:09.583
It was just fun, as you know, Filmlight is a very

564
00:21:09.583 --> 00:21:11.291
international company and there are a lot of

565
00:21:11.291 --> 00:21:12.625
different corners of the world

566
00:21:12.625 --> 00:21:13.916
that were starting to get into D.I.

567
00:21:13.916 --> 00:21:15.916
So I traveled around quite a bit,

568
00:21:15.916 --> 00:21:17.250
just going into these different D.I.

569
00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:18.333
Theaters, helping them calibrate

570
00:21:18.333 --> 00:21:20.666
their their rooms and set them up for D.I.

571
00:21:21.291 --> 00:21:23.541
I bet they looked good, you know, like once they'd

572
00:21:23.541 --> 00:21:25.000
all been calibrated, I bet they were

573
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.333
looking the best they'll ever look.

574
00:21:27.375 --> 00:21:29.500
Yeah, of course, the trickiest thing with film is

575
00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:31.750
that because it's a photochemical process, you

576
00:21:31.750 --> 00:21:34.000
know, it's not 100 percent locked down.

577
00:21:34.333 --> 00:21:36.375
So that was always a frustrating thing, is that,

578
00:21:36.375 --> 00:21:37.791
you know, we could always exactly

579
00:21:37.791 --> 00:21:39.208
match what the lab did yesterday.

580
00:21:39.958 --> 00:21:41.000
The question is, is that what's

581
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.125
going to come out of the lab tomorrow?

582
00:21:42.416 --> 00:21:45.000
So sometimes you have these awkward conversations

583
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.416
where you have to say, like, I know what I'm doing

584
00:21:47.416 --> 00:21:49.833
in the lab is that fault here or, you know, kind of

585
00:21:49.833 --> 00:21:51.208
figure out or are we doing something?

586
00:21:51.250 --> 00:21:55.125
And so, yeah, it's kind of funny that in those

587
00:21:55.125 --> 00:21:57.583
days, again, towards the end of D.I., like, I think

588
00:21:57.583 --> 00:21:59.416
film laboratories are at their absolute best

589
00:21:59.416 --> 00:22:02.500
because, you know, you have this rock solid digital

590
00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:03.875
projector to compare it to now.

591
00:22:04.125 --> 00:22:05.666
So the post house could say, you

592
00:22:05.666 --> 00:22:07.708
know, hey, the lab was a little off today.

593
00:22:07.708 --> 00:22:08.583
We got to reprint this. You

594
00:22:08.583 --> 00:22:09.541
got to fix what you're doing.

595
00:22:09.541 --> 00:22:11.333
So the labs actually got better.

596
00:22:11.333 --> 00:22:13.250
They were doing it much tighter controls as well.

597
00:22:13.625 --> 00:22:15.041
So yeah. Yeah.

598
00:22:15.291 --> 00:22:16.375
Oh, that's so interesting to

599
00:22:16.375 --> 00:22:17.750
be able to side by side it.

600
00:22:17.791 --> 00:22:21.875
You know, I find today that I'm I'm constantly

601
00:22:21.875 --> 00:22:25.041
hearing back from clients that, oh, we just watched

602
00:22:25.041 --> 00:22:27.541
the DCP and it's not looking the

603
00:22:27.541 --> 00:22:29.083
same as it did in the grade suite.

604
00:22:29.416 --> 00:22:31.541
And then you have to say, well, you

605
00:22:31.541 --> 00:22:33.500
know, have you measured the screen?

606
00:22:33.791 --> 00:22:35.666
Do you know if the lamps that it's full brightness?

607
00:22:36.083 --> 00:22:39.166
You know, you've got so many questions and

608
00:22:39.166 --> 00:22:40.708
commercial cinemas, I don't think,

609
00:22:40.708 --> 00:22:42.291
are doing that level of calibration.

610
00:22:42.666 --> 00:22:44.791
But it's that thing of just, you know, being able

611
00:22:44.791 --> 00:22:47.208
to say to somebody, look, when we looked at it

612
00:22:47.208 --> 00:22:51.000
during the D.I., it was correct there.

613
00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:53.291
And if it's deviating, at least we

614
00:22:53.291 --> 00:22:55.041
know where where it's deviating from.

615
00:22:55.083 --> 00:22:56.708
Right. Right.

616
00:22:57.125 --> 00:22:59.000
Because you can't control every screen.

617
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:00.625
But wouldn't it be nice to be able to send someone

618
00:23:00.625 --> 00:23:02.708
out and say, OK, it's going to get calibrated

619
00:23:02.708 --> 00:23:04.041
before you screen for the

620
00:23:04.041 --> 00:23:05.458
short film festival or something?

621
00:23:06.291 --> 00:23:09.791
Well, I'm lucky enough to live in Los Angeles where

622
00:23:09.791 --> 00:23:11.416
some facilities for certainly

623
00:23:11.416 --> 00:23:12.750
for larger titles will do that.

624
00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:13.833
You know, if they're going to have a big film

625
00:23:13.833 --> 00:23:15.666
premiere or, you know, they know

626
00:23:15.666 --> 00:23:17.458
that it's it's an important screening,

627
00:23:17.458 --> 00:23:19.208
they will actually send someone out to measure the

628
00:23:19.208 --> 00:23:21.250
screen and make sure it's properly set up because,

629
00:23:21.583 --> 00:23:23.750
yeah, that is one of the most frustrating things I

630
00:23:23.750 --> 00:23:25.125
think about what we do is

631
00:23:25.125 --> 00:23:27.041
that you can always trust that an

632
00:23:27.083 --> 00:23:29.041
calibrated environment is going to look great.

633
00:23:29.291 --> 00:23:31.250
But once it gets onto someone's screen in their

634
00:23:31.250 --> 00:23:32.416
home, who knows if they'll actually

635
00:23:32.416 --> 00:23:34.000
be seeing what you intended or not.

636
00:23:34.291 --> 00:23:37.083
So, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I do joke that it

637
00:23:37.083 --> 00:23:39.666
would be nice to send my Sony monitor out for

638
00:23:39.666 --> 00:23:42.041
everyone to look at things on and just ditch their

639
00:23:42.041 --> 00:23:43.666
iPads and phones and TVs.

640
00:23:44.125 --> 00:23:46.250
But unfortunately, we can't

641
00:23:46.250 --> 00:23:47.375
provide everyone with that.

642
00:23:49.291 --> 00:23:51.500
At the same time, one of my favorite anecdotes was

643
00:23:51.500 --> 00:23:53.208
from a DP I talked to who

644
00:23:53.208 --> 00:23:54.708
watched digital dalies on his laptop.

645
00:23:55.333 --> 00:23:56.041
And he said it was great

646
00:23:56.041 --> 00:23:57.125
because he could grade him himself.

647
00:23:57.125 --> 00:23:58.333
If he wanted him a little darker,

648
00:23:58.333 --> 00:23:59.708
he just tilt his laptop that way.

649
00:23:59.708 --> 00:24:00.333
If he wanted it brighter

650
00:24:00.333 --> 00:24:01.541
just tilt his laptop that way.

651
00:24:01.541 --> 00:24:03.583
So he'd just grade his dailies by tilting a screen.

652
00:24:04.083 --> 00:24:06.833
Oh, my goodness. Oh, that gives me

653
00:24:06.833 --> 00:24:09.375
the chills. I don't like that at all.

654
00:24:09.875 --> 00:24:11.458
For dailies, that's fine, I think. But yeah,

655
00:24:11.791 --> 00:24:13.250
certainly when you get to the final, you don't want

656
00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:14.583
to be leaving it to that.

657
00:24:15.125 --> 00:24:17.875
It worries me, especially in short form, what some

658
00:24:17.875 --> 00:24:20.041
people are watching things on on their phones, you

659
00:24:20.041 --> 00:24:21.208
know, at the pub or something.

660
00:24:22.416 --> 00:24:26.458
Yeah. So going all over the world and calibrating

661
00:24:26.458 --> 00:24:28.375
things and using the true light system.

662
00:24:29.458 --> 00:24:32.750
I mean, was the true light system sort of in

663
00:24:32.750 --> 00:24:36.583
existence before base light was was that like?

664
00:24:37.416 --> 00:24:40.250
Before Baselight or part of, how did that work?

665
00:24:40.916 --> 00:24:44.583
So film light actually got started as kind of like

666
00:24:44.583 --> 00:24:46.291
the R&D group from Computer Film Company

667
00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:50.000
and all our first three main products, the

668
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:51.625
Northlight scanner, the base light

669
00:24:52.541 --> 00:24:54.250
color correction system and true light color

670
00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:55.416
management are early

671
00:24:55.416 --> 00:24:57.250
versions of that all existed in CFC

672
00:24:57.375 --> 00:24:59.666
before it split off and became a separate company

673
00:24:59.666 --> 00:25:00.458
called Filmlight, where we

674
00:25:00.458 --> 00:25:01.541
said, hey, we can, you know,

675
00:25:02.333 --> 00:25:04.041
bring these tools to the industry at wide.

676
00:25:04.041 --> 00:25:05.166
It doesn't have to be, you know,

677
00:25:05.166 --> 00:25:06.958
just for this one, one company.

678
00:25:08.166 --> 00:25:10.666
So Northlight was actually our scanner was the

679
00:25:10.666 --> 00:25:13.125
first product that really kind of took off.

680
00:25:13.583 --> 00:25:17.000
True light and base light kind of came out at

681
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.000
around the same time, but true light definitely got

682
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.875
traction a lot quicker because true light would

683
00:25:20.875 --> 00:25:23.000
work with, you know, any color

684
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.083
correction set up any any kind of theater.

685
00:25:26.041 --> 00:25:27.500
And obviously, you know, if you don't have that

686
00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:29.500
basic color correction in place, you can't even

687
00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:31.166
start to begin to do to do a DI.

688
00:25:32.291 --> 00:25:33.916
So yeah, actually, when I joined Filmlight, I

689
00:25:33.916 --> 00:25:35.625
didn't really know much about base light at all.

690
00:25:35.625 --> 00:25:36.458
I said, oh, well, this true

691
00:25:36.458 --> 00:25:37.458
light stuff is rock solid.

692
00:25:37.458 --> 00:25:38.541
I've seen it before. I'm

693
00:25:38.541 --> 00:25:40.583
happy to go out and utilize it.

694
00:25:41.083 --> 00:25:42.041
This base light thing is kind of

695
00:25:42.041 --> 00:25:43.208
interesting, but I haven't seen it.

696
00:25:43.208 --> 00:25:44.041
I don't know what it does.

697
00:25:44.041 --> 00:25:46.833
And but as I was working with the other people at

698
00:25:46.833 --> 00:25:48.333
Filmlight, I said, wow, there's actually, you know,

699
00:25:48.333 --> 00:25:49.833
something something really great here.

700
00:25:50.125 --> 00:25:53.083
And and yeah, so base light was kind of the last

701
00:25:53.083 --> 00:25:56.041
product to grow up and get widespread adoption.

702
00:25:56.541 --> 00:25:58.416
But and you hadn't done color

703
00:25:58.416 --> 00:26:00.875
correction yourself prior to that.

704
00:26:01.541 --> 00:26:04.625
Only only technical kind of color correction.

705
00:26:04.666 --> 00:26:07.750
So I knew how to like drive a DaVinci 2K and how to

706
00:26:07.750 --> 00:26:12.125
drive a Pogle, but mostly just for how to set up a,

707
00:26:12.125 --> 00:26:14.333
you know, a Telecine the right way.

708
00:26:14.625 --> 00:26:15.250
Another one of the

709
00:26:15.250 --> 00:26:17.875
projects I worked on at at Kodak.

710
00:26:20.458 --> 00:26:22.916
I've actually forgotten the name of it, but it was

711
00:26:22.916 --> 00:26:28.125
a product to to to again kind of make the film

712
00:26:28.125 --> 00:26:30.416
transfer process more consistent and set up a

713
00:26:30.416 --> 00:26:31.875
Telecine more like a scanner.

714
00:26:32.333 --> 00:26:34.750
So you could take, you know, whether it's a spirit

715
00:26:34.750 --> 00:26:39.291
scan Telecine or I.T.K. or whatever, we we

716
00:26:39.291 --> 00:26:43.000
developed some reference calibration film that

717
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.166
you'd put on the Telecine with specific targets

718
00:26:45.166 --> 00:26:46.083
that you'd have to, you

719
00:26:46.083 --> 00:26:47.416
know, adjust the knobs to to hit.

720
00:26:47.833 --> 00:26:50.583
And then you would know that your Telecine was

721
00:26:50.583 --> 00:26:54.125
actually making kind of standard Cineon scans much

722
00:26:54.125 --> 00:26:56.583
more like a film scanner that would

723
00:26:56.583 --> 00:26:58.083
be used for VFX and things like that.

724
00:26:58.708 --> 00:27:00.416
So I knew how to, you know, drive the controls to

725
00:27:00.416 --> 00:27:01.583
do that kind of technical grading,

726
00:27:01.583 --> 00:27:02.916
but never never creative grading.

727
00:27:03.708 --> 00:27:06.583
Did you ever sort of get the bug for creative color

728
00:27:06.583 --> 00:27:10.208
grading or have you always felt felt more like the

729
00:27:10.208 --> 00:27:12.750
technology was was who you are?

730
00:27:13.416 --> 00:27:16.375
Yeah, I'm very cognizant of the fact that, you

731
00:27:16.375 --> 00:27:19.083
know, being a colorist, a huge part of your job is

732
00:27:19.083 --> 00:27:20.791
kind of client management and client communication.

733
00:27:21.125 --> 00:27:23.750
You know, it's figuring developing that that

734
00:27:23.750 --> 00:27:25.750
language with them about what does it mean when

735
00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:27.666
they say they want something redder or brighter or

736
00:27:27.666 --> 00:27:28.833
darker or that sort of stuff.

737
00:27:29.708 --> 00:27:31.083
And I fully respect that.

738
00:27:31.875 --> 00:27:33.833
And I kind of decided that that that's interesting,

739
00:27:33.833 --> 00:27:35.000
but that's not what I want to do.

740
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.958
I want to focus more on kind of

741
00:27:36.958 --> 00:27:38.083
what's going on under the hood.

742
00:27:38.833 --> 00:27:40.583
And, yeah, certainly like one of the great things I

743
00:27:40.583 --> 00:27:43.083
think about BaseLight is that there's strong color

744
00:27:43.083 --> 00:27:44.666
science underpinning all our

745
00:27:44.666 --> 00:27:45.875
tools and everything we do.

746
00:27:46.125 --> 00:27:49.250
And that's part of why I think we can explain why

747
00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:50.916
the tools are the way they are is because we've

748
00:27:50.916 --> 00:27:53.333
really thought through, like, we don't just want to

749
00:27:53.333 --> 00:27:55.750
make some knob that makes the image looks zazzy.

750
00:27:55.750 --> 00:27:56.750
And, you know, sometimes it

751
00:27:56.750 --> 00:27:57.958
works and sometimes it doesn't.

752
00:27:58.041 --> 00:27:59.708
It's actually like, why are we

753
00:27:59.708 --> 00:28:01.166
doing the image processing this way?

754
00:28:01.166 --> 00:28:02.416
Is this the best way to do that?

755
00:28:02.583 --> 00:28:05.125
That's going to give you the most control over the

756
00:28:05.125 --> 00:28:07.041
image and keep things looking natural and not just

757
00:28:07.041 --> 00:28:09.458
like, you know, all electronic and weird.

758
00:28:10.708 --> 00:28:12.750
So, yeah, I really like being a part of that

759
00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:17.416
process of developing those creative tools and then

760
00:28:17.416 --> 00:28:19.333
handing them over to people who can get inside

761
00:28:19.333 --> 00:28:21.083
other people's heads and figure out how to actually

762
00:28:21.083 --> 00:28:22.625
get the images they want out of it.

763
00:28:23.375 --> 00:28:26.166
Yeah, it is such a different, like, discipline,

764
00:28:26.458 --> 00:28:29.166
isn't it, to understand the technology that

765
00:28:29.166 --> 00:28:30.833
underpins it as opposed to being

766
00:28:30.833 --> 00:28:32.791
able to deploy it in a session.

767
00:28:33.083 --> 00:28:35.833
But you've trained a lot of colorists.

768
00:28:35.833 --> 00:28:37.458
I'd be surprised if you couldn't sit

769
00:28:37.458 --> 00:28:39.291
down and grade something pretty well.

770
00:28:39.833 --> 00:28:41.208
Yeah, I could.

771
00:28:41.208 --> 00:28:43.333
I've done a few, like, indie projects and for

772
00:28:43.333 --> 00:28:44.791
friends and stuff like that.

773
00:28:44.791 --> 00:28:46.833
But, yeah, again, I just decided

774
00:28:46.833 --> 00:28:48.208
that wasn't what I wanted for my career.

775
00:28:48.583 --> 00:28:51.375
So when I spent some time with you and you trained

776
00:28:51.375 --> 00:28:55.541
me, you showed me through the current features as

777
00:28:55.541 --> 00:28:57.166
well as some of the new features that are coming

778
00:28:57.166 --> 00:28:59.375
out in version six of Baselight.

779
00:29:00.208 --> 00:29:02.791
And I just wanted to talk about a few of them

780
00:29:02.791 --> 00:29:06.666
because it's actually quite fascinating to me

781
00:29:06.666 --> 00:29:09.666
because prior to that, I hadn't had such a huge.

782
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.625
Kind of interaction with Baselight and I was kind

783
00:29:12.625 --> 00:29:15.291
of taken aback by just how, like you

784
00:29:15.291 --> 00:29:17.583
said, thought through the tools were.

785
00:29:18.250 --> 00:29:21.625
So one thing which I really enjoyed were the tools

786
00:29:21.625 --> 00:29:24.625
that worked in the perceptual color space.

787
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.208
Can you talk to me about those?

788
00:29:26.208 --> 00:29:29.458
That was base grade mainly in version five.

789
00:29:30.208 --> 00:29:30.708
Yeah.

790
00:29:30.708 --> 00:29:33.166
So, I mean, the big evolution, I think, in

791
00:29:33.166 --> 00:29:36.375
Baselight over the past few years has been focused

792
00:29:36.375 --> 00:29:39.458
on tools that really emulate

793
00:29:39.625 --> 00:29:40.958
the physics of light and the

794
00:29:40.958 --> 00:29:42.708
way our eye reacts to light.

795
00:29:43.166 --> 00:29:46.625
So as opposed to like our early tools like film

796
00:29:46.625 --> 00:29:49.541
grade tried to emulate what happens in a film lab

797
00:29:49.541 --> 00:29:53.291
when you adjust printer lights or, you know, vary

798
00:29:53.291 --> 00:29:55.125
the processing a little bit to adjust contrast.

799
00:29:56.083 --> 00:29:57.708
And video grade emulates what happened in a

800
00:29:57.708 --> 00:29:59.833
telecine, which, of course, was originally kind of

801
00:29:59.833 --> 00:30:01.375
analog voltage adjustments.

802
00:30:02.375 --> 00:30:07.250
So really just trying to work with the limited

803
00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:09.458
tools they had at the time to adjust the color.

804
00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:12.541
So with base grade, which debuted a few years ago,

805
00:30:12.541 --> 00:30:15.083
that was really one of our first major attempts to

806
00:30:15.083 --> 00:30:17.250
say, okay, we have this

807
00:30:17.250 --> 00:30:18.833
color management in place now.

808
00:30:19.250 --> 00:30:22.541
We can know what the original light

809
00:30:22.541 --> 00:30:23.875
coming into the camera looks like.

810
00:30:24.250 --> 00:30:25.625
We know how the human eye works.

811
00:30:25.625 --> 00:30:27.791
So let's make a grading tool that acts more like a

812
00:30:27.791 --> 00:30:29.458
camera does and more like the human eye does.

813
00:30:29.791 --> 00:30:33.375
So instead of grading in some RGB space, whether

814
00:30:33.375 --> 00:30:35.625
that's, you know, based on the camera sensitivity

815
00:30:35.625 --> 00:30:38.583
to RGB or your displays reproduction of RGB.

816
00:30:39.041 --> 00:30:41.375
Let's say we'll just work in human perceptual space

817
00:30:41.375 --> 00:30:43.416
because that's that's what color is.

818
00:30:43.416 --> 00:30:44.666
It's the name we give to

819
00:30:44.666 --> 00:30:45.958
how the human eye sees light.

820
00:30:45.958 --> 00:30:46.916
So let's focus on that.

821
00:30:48.125 --> 00:30:49.458
And so, yeah, we brought it into this human

822
00:30:49.458 --> 00:30:52.333
perceptual space and we just made

823
00:30:52.333 --> 00:30:55.083
the tools work consistently to the way

824
00:30:56.458 --> 00:31:00.375
DPs and other filmmakers think about color in terms

825
00:31:00.375 --> 00:31:02.625
of, you know, stops of exposure or color

826
00:31:02.625 --> 00:31:04.916
temperature rather than just kind of like, you

827
00:31:04.916 --> 00:31:07.166
know, arbitrary RGB numbers.

828
00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:07.500
So.

829
00:31:08.375 --> 00:31:10.833
And so in order to do that, because there has been

830
00:31:10.833 --> 00:31:14.416
a lot of research into how the eye sees, did you

831
00:31:14.416 --> 00:31:18.625
take that research and translate it into like a

832
00:31:18.625 --> 00:31:21.750
digital map of some kind?

833
00:31:22.041 --> 00:31:23.833
Like, how did that happen?

834
00:31:24.875 --> 00:31:25.583
Yeah, yeah.

835
00:31:25.583 --> 00:31:27.541
I mean, there's there is a lot of research done on

836
00:31:27.541 --> 00:31:29.833
on human vision and still there still is stuff that

837
00:31:29.833 --> 00:31:31.458
we don't really completely understand.

838
00:31:31.458 --> 00:31:33.541
I think like we have a complete, you know, physical

839
00:31:33.541 --> 00:31:36.000
model of the eyeball and how the cells and our

840
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.125
retina work and all that.

841
00:31:37.166 --> 00:31:39.583
But then there's this big squishy brain behind it.

842
00:31:39.583 --> 00:31:41.541
And that's the part that you can't exactly, you

843
00:31:41.541 --> 00:31:43.291
know, just like pick a pick apart.

844
00:31:43.291 --> 00:31:45.583
So there's still some stuff that happens in our

845
00:31:45.583 --> 00:31:47.625
visual processing that we're not quite sure why it

846
00:31:47.625 --> 00:31:49.500
happens or what part of the brain

847
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:50.875
it happens in and that sort of stuff.

848
00:31:50.875 --> 00:31:53.375
But certainly for the initial part of the eye,

849
00:31:53.375 --> 00:31:54.583
that's all very well modeled.

850
00:31:55.458 --> 00:31:57.500
And so, yeah, we were able to take some academic

851
00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:00.166
research papers that that model that behavior and

852
00:32:00.166 --> 00:32:03.041
kind of trim the bits we didn't need to simplify it

853
00:32:03.041 --> 00:32:04.666
to get it running in real time and that kind of

854
00:32:04.666 --> 00:32:06.583
stuff to actually do the conversion

855
00:32:06.833 --> 00:32:08.166
into the visual space and

856
00:32:08.166 --> 00:32:10.083
then adjust the colors in there.

857
00:32:11.041 --> 00:32:13.666
And so you were talking about color management and

858
00:32:13.666 --> 00:32:15.666
color management workflows have been really

859
00:32:15.666 --> 00:32:17.250
important to you throughout your whole career.

860
00:32:17.625 --> 00:32:19.500
And one thing which I was interested in in

861
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:20.416
BaseLight was that you're

862
00:32:20.416 --> 00:32:21.916
always working color managed.

863
00:32:22.458 --> 00:32:24.250
You can't get outside of that.

864
00:32:25.125 --> 00:32:25.291
Right.

865
00:32:25.708 --> 00:32:28.500
So within that color management system, you have

866
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.750
like another little bubble for this tool.

867
00:32:31.375 --> 00:32:33.833
So it's working within another color space, but

868
00:32:33.833 --> 00:32:36.333
that's all handled automatically within BaseLight.

869
00:32:36.375 --> 00:32:37.000
Is that right?

870
00:32:38.416 --> 00:32:38.625
Yeah.

871
00:32:38.666 --> 00:32:41.166
So of course, the way the color management system

872
00:32:41.166 --> 00:32:43.916
works is at first have to know like what camera was

873
00:32:43.916 --> 00:32:45.458
used to acquire the image.

874
00:32:45.750 --> 00:32:47.708
So most of the time for camera original footage,

875
00:32:47.708 --> 00:32:50.041
you know, we'll know if it was shot on RED or Sony

876
00:32:50.041 --> 00:32:52.666
or ARRI or GoPro or what have you.

877
00:32:53.166 --> 00:32:56.625
So we've profiled all those cameras and can bring

878
00:32:56.625 --> 00:32:59.500
them from that camera native color space into

879
00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:01.083
whatever color space you want.

880
00:33:02.083 --> 00:33:04.625
And yeah, for what I call like our legacy tools

881
00:33:04.625 --> 00:33:07.041
like video grade for lift gamma gain or film grade

882
00:33:07.041 --> 00:33:08.250
or stuff like that, you can choose

883
00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:09.708
what color space you want to work in.

884
00:33:09.708 --> 00:33:11.291
So you could say, you know, I'm

885
00:33:11.291 --> 00:33:14.500
primarily in ARRI show shooting Alexa.

886
00:33:15.041 --> 00:33:17.541
So even though there's a few shots done on Canon

887
00:33:17.541 --> 00:33:19.333
camera or a few shots done on RED, I can actually

888
00:33:19.333 --> 00:33:20.833
bring them all into the ARRI

889
00:33:20.833 --> 00:33:22.375
color space and grade with it there.

890
00:33:22.375 --> 00:33:23.750
So my tools feel consistent.

891
00:33:24.583 --> 00:33:26.250
But then beyond that, yeah, when you get to 

892
00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:27.625
Base Grade and some of our new

893
00:33:27.625 --> 00:33:29.541
tools like Xgrade and ChromaGen,

894
00:33:30.625 --> 00:33:32.791
they work in their own internal color space, which

895
00:33:32.791 --> 00:33:34.375
is that human perceptual space.

896
00:33:37.250 --> 00:33:40.708
And so, yeah, that basically lets us emulate those

897
00:33:40.708 --> 00:33:43.000
those real world processes, regardless of what

898
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.208
camera you shot with at the start.

899
00:33:44.791 --> 00:33:47.000
In terms of the way that it looks, you know, it's

900
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:50.000
hard to describe it, talking about it.

901
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.250
But when you're actually using it as a colorist, I

902
00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:57.458
was so, so happy with how like

903
00:33:57.458 --> 00:34:01.041
mainly saturation was mapped.

904
00:34:02.250 --> 00:34:05.708
If you saturate an image in base grade, you never

905
00:34:05.708 --> 00:34:08.458
get into those kind of electric colors that you can

906
00:34:08.458 --> 00:34:09.750
reach when you've got Rec.

907
00:34:09.750 --> 00:34:12.375
709 primaries controlling your saturation.

908
00:34:12.916 --> 00:34:14.875
So it's definitely something

909
00:34:14.875 --> 00:34:17.125
that's worth every colorist.

910
00:34:17.125 --> 00:34:19.833
If you're no matter what system you use, just

911
00:34:19.833 --> 00:34:24.041
jumping in to the Baselight Look software, which

912
00:34:24.041 --> 00:34:26.083
is now available, you can you can

913
00:34:26.083 --> 00:34:28.541
just download it to learn and play.

914
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.333
It is worth jumping in and just seeing what base

915
00:34:31.333 --> 00:34:34.083
grade does and how it reacts, because it is a

916
00:34:34.083 --> 00:34:35.958
slightly different experience when you're grading.

917
00:34:36.250 --> 00:34:40.583
You know, you might be used to offset grading, but,

918
00:34:40.583 --> 00:34:42.041
you know, to have these

919
00:34:42.041 --> 00:34:45.333
controls like Flair and the ranges,

920
00:34:45.875 --> 00:34:50.458
like you've got Bright and Dim and Dark and Light,

921
00:34:50.458 --> 00:34:51.833
I think it is on the two panels.

922
00:34:52.166 --> 00:34:54.250
I hope I got that right. Yeah.

923
00:34:55.125 --> 00:34:57.875
They all operate just a little bit differently from

924
00:34:57.875 --> 00:34:59.833
other tools we might be used to using and

925
00:34:59.833 --> 00:35:01.208
especially the Flair control.

926
00:35:01.833 --> 00:35:03.250
I mean, it's just worth having a play.

927
00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:06.208
Well, thanks. Yeah, I mean, that's that's good to

928
00:35:06.208 --> 00:35:07.625
hear. It means we we did our job.

929
00:35:07.958 --> 00:35:10.083
So it is super good fun.

930
00:35:10.125 --> 00:35:12.583
And you also mentioned another couple of tools that

931
00:35:12.583 --> 00:35:15.583
work in that perceptual color space, which is X

932
00:35:15.583 --> 00:35:20.333
grade and chromogen, which are these six tools that

933
00:35:20.333 --> 00:35:22.291
are coming out there in beta at the moment.

934
00:35:22.291 --> 00:35:23.750
Is that right? That's correct.

935
00:35:24.291 --> 00:35:26.083
Can you tell me about those

936
00:35:26.083 --> 00:35:28.166
because they are just something else?

937
00:35:30.041 --> 00:35:35.916
Yeah, so X grade is a tool that's, again, kind of

938
00:35:35.916 --> 00:35:38.916
plots all the colors in a human perceptual space.

939
00:35:38.958 --> 00:35:42.416
So it's not exactly the same as the space that base

940
00:35:42.416 --> 00:35:44.916
grade uses, actually, but it kind of plots the

941
00:35:44.916 --> 00:35:49.125
colors out so that an equal amount of change in

942
00:35:49.125 --> 00:35:52.208
that tool will be perceived the same as your eye,

943
00:35:52.208 --> 00:35:55.291
because we're, for instance, more sensitive to

944
00:35:55.291 --> 00:35:58.666
changes in like blue and purple hues than we are in

945
00:35:58.666 --> 00:36:01.375
green hues or for saturation the same way.

946
00:36:01.375 --> 00:36:02.208
We're more sensitive to

947
00:36:02.208 --> 00:36:03.833
saturations in some color than another.

948
00:36:03.875 --> 00:36:06.125
So that color space, first of all, kind of smooths

949
00:36:06.125 --> 00:36:07.541
everything out so that you know, if you're making

950
00:36:07.541 --> 00:36:11.416
the same amount of change in X grade, you're going

951
00:36:11.416 --> 00:36:12.958
to see this perceive the same

952
00:36:12.958 --> 00:36:14.750
amount of change with your eye.

953
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.791
And it basically when we built it, we looked at,

954
00:36:19.791 --> 00:36:23.500
you know, other tools which allow you to manipulate

955
00:36:23.500 --> 00:36:25.750
the full color space as kind of a mesh to be able

956
00:36:25.750 --> 00:36:27.625
to like, you know, basically just push color colors

957
00:36:27.625 --> 00:36:29.458
around and mold them like clay.

958
00:36:30.250 --> 00:36:32.500
And we found it was a really interesting way to

959
00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:34.666
adjust colors, but also a really quick way to

960
00:36:34.666 --> 00:36:36.375
destroy the image because you can quickly get

961
00:36:36.375 --> 00:36:38.291
images crossing over with each other causing

962
00:36:38.291 --> 00:36:39.708
banding artifacts and tearing

963
00:36:39.708 --> 00:36:40.833
and noise and stuff like that.

964
00:36:41.791 --> 00:36:44.083
So we said, how could we do this, you know, more

965
00:36:44.083 --> 00:36:44.708
smoothly and more

966
00:36:44.708 --> 00:36:46.125
consistently to get a good result?

967
00:36:46.625 --> 00:36:49.000
And the first was moving it from an RGB color space

968
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.958
into this human perceptual space where everything

969
00:36:50.958 --> 00:36:52.375
is evenly weighted for all the colors.

970
00:36:53.333 --> 00:36:55.625
And then the second was rather than, you know, like

971
00:36:55.625 --> 00:36:58.416
just manipulating a 3D lookup table directly, let's

972
00:36:58.416 --> 00:37:00.625
make it so you have kind of areas of influence

973
00:37:00.625 --> 00:37:02.916
almost like you are molding clay and pushing stuff

974
00:37:02.916 --> 00:37:04.916
around so that, you know, when you push really hard

975
00:37:04.916 --> 00:37:07.208
in the green and then you push, you know, the red

976
00:37:07.208 --> 00:37:08.291
direction in another way, it kind

977
00:37:08.291 --> 00:37:09.625
of pulls a little bit of it with it.

978
00:37:09.625 --> 00:37:11.000
So you don't get that tearing, you're just

979
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.375
constantly kind of molding the colors around.

980
00:37:14.166 --> 00:37:15.625
And yeah, just ended up kind of being this really

981
00:37:15.625 --> 00:37:18.625
organic way to quickly do what would normally be

982
00:37:18.625 --> 00:37:19.791
secondary color correction.

983
00:37:19.833 --> 00:37:21.875
So normally, if you wanted to make, you know, your

984
00:37:21.875 --> 00:37:24.000
reds a little bit more orange and make your greens

985
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.125
more saturated and make your, you know, blues

986
00:37:26.125 --> 00:37:28.500
darker, you'd have to do three different keys and a

987
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.333
bunch of windows and stuff to protect for exactly

988
00:37:30.333 --> 00:37:32.041
what you want it to affect.

989
00:37:33.166 --> 00:37:35.291
But with X-grade, you just kind of grab that part

990
00:37:35.291 --> 00:37:36.958
of the color space, push it the direction you want

991
00:37:36.958 --> 00:37:39.000
to go and do the same in the three other color

992
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.750
spaces and basically automatically interpolates and

993
00:37:41.750 --> 00:37:43.125
smooth between them so that you're

994
00:37:43.125 --> 00:37:44.500
not getting any of those artifacts.

995
00:37:45.583 --> 00:37:48.833
Yeah, I mean, I've tried pushing it every way you

996
00:37:48.833 --> 00:37:51.875
can imagine. And like you say, like one point will

997
00:37:51.875 --> 00:37:55.208
always affect the others and it'll protect you from

998
00:37:55.208 --> 00:37:57.208
from going into crazy town.

999
00:37:57.958 --> 00:38:00.708
Another feature that I really like about it is the

1000
00:38:00.708 --> 00:38:02.583
neutral line that runs through the center.

1001
00:38:03.250 --> 00:38:05.166
So it did take me a little while to get my head

1002
00:38:05.166 --> 00:38:06.666
around exactly what that was doing.

1003
00:38:06.666 --> 00:38:07.875
But it looks almost like

1004
00:38:07.875 --> 00:38:10.083
degrees Kelvin running through.

1005
00:38:10.916 --> 00:38:13.500
Yeah, exactly. We kind of highlight where the

1006
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:15.916
standard black body white points are so that, you

1007
00:38:15.916 --> 00:38:18.833
know, if you do want to keep stuff more neutral, of

1008
00:38:18.833 --> 00:38:21.791
course, there's nothing as no such thing as being

1009
00:38:21.791 --> 00:38:23.791
truly neutral because you're always neutral with

1010
00:38:23.791 --> 00:38:24.875
respect to some white point.

1011
00:38:25.708 --> 00:38:27.583
So you can decide kind of what that white point is.

1012
00:38:27.958 --> 00:38:29.916
But we also have, yeah, kind of like an anchor so

1013
00:38:29.916 --> 00:38:31.875
that it keeps stuff that is

1014
00:38:31.875 --> 00:38:33.166
close to neutral more neutral.

1015
00:38:33.166 --> 00:38:34.750
So when you're pushing other stuff around, you're

1016
00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:37.000
not suddenly pushing, you know, your grays towards

1017
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.875
red, your grays towards green and stuff like that.

1018
00:38:38.916 --> 00:38:41.291
So that was kind of another key component we

1019
00:38:41.291 --> 00:38:43.708
realized early on is that normally you want to keep

1020
00:38:43.708 --> 00:38:46.083
your your neutral scale kind of grounded and be

1021
00:38:46.083 --> 00:38:47.166
pushing the colors around it

1022
00:38:47.166 --> 00:38:48.833
rather than shifting the whole image.

1023
00:38:49.083 --> 00:38:51.208
But you can take that pin out if you do want to go

1024
00:38:51.208 --> 00:38:52.750
crazy and push everything around.

1025
00:38:52.750 --> 00:38:55.000
You can do that, too. So it's also really nice to

1026
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.291
just have that representation on screen because it

1027
00:38:58.291 --> 00:39:01.291
can show like I was playing with it the other day

1028
00:39:01.291 --> 00:39:04.791
and looking at, you know, I wanted to grab this

1029
00:39:04.791 --> 00:39:06.041
warm color and which

1030
00:39:06.041 --> 00:39:07.458
direction do I want to push it in?

1031
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.166
Well, if I push it down the neutral line, it's

1032
00:39:10.166 --> 00:39:12.333
cleaning up and becoming neutralized.

1033
00:39:12.333 --> 00:39:13.083
If I push it the other

1034
00:39:13.083 --> 00:39:14.416
way, it's getting more orange.

1035
00:39:14.791 --> 00:39:17.916
So, you know, for me, it's like almost a part of a

1036
00:39:17.916 --> 00:39:20.625
map for me to to know where I am in space as well.

1037
00:39:21.125 --> 00:39:24.916
And it's also got ranges, which which I was having

1038
00:39:24.916 --> 00:39:26.875
a play with and discovering the other day as well.

1039
00:39:27.208 --> 00:39:31.166
So you can do a little bit of work more so in your

1040
00:39:31.166 --> 00:39:32.541
dim zone or more so in your

1041
00:39:32.541 --> 00:39:35.208
bright zone if you switch it over.

1042
00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:38.416
So I think there's like like any of these tools,

1043
00:39:38.416 --> 00:39:39.541
they start off looking quite

1044
00:39:39.541 --> 00:39:41.458
simple, like, OK, it's color warper.

1045
00:39:41.916 --> 00:39:44.125
And then you start to change a few parameters and

1046
00:39:44.125 --> 00:39:46.375
you're like, oh, wow, OK, this can really do some

1047
00:39:46.375 --> 00:39:48.916
pretty, pretty cool stuff in terms of look.

1048
00:39:50.750 --> 00:39:54.625
But yeah, definitely the, you know, utilizing it,

1049
00:39:54.625 --> 00:39:55.916
that's that's another thing which I really like

1050
00:39:55.916 --> 00:39:58.041
about the tools in Baselite as a whole,

1051
00:39:58.958 --> 00:40:02.208
is that there are a lot of tools in the main

1052
00:40:02.208 --> 00:40:05.541
grading options that can save

1053
00:40:05.541 --> 00:40:07.500
you from going to secondaries.

1054
00:40:08.958 --> 00:40:12.458
So Hue Shift is one that I would use every time.

1055
00:40:13.125 --> 00:40:14.750
It might be my favorite tool.

1056
00:40:15.458 --> 00:40:19.250
Being able to alter the value of a hue and, you

1057
00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:21.958
know, brighten skin tone a little bit and perhaps

1058
00:40:21.958 --> 00:40:24.791
darken a background a bit rather than adding a

1059
00:40:24.791 --> 00:40:26.958
window for a face or darkening

1060
00:40:26.958 --> 00:40:28.208
off a background with a vignette.

1061
00:40:28.250 --> 00:40:29.250
You know, I can just do that

1062
00:40:29.250 --> 00:40:30.541
right there in the main page.

1063
00:40:30.791 --> 00:40:34.416
So, you know, is that something that you guys are

1064
00:40:34.416 --> 00:40:36.000
interested in particularly is

1065
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.041
keeping away from the secondaries?

1066
00:40:39.625 --> 00:40:42.083
Yeah, that was definitely a thing we consciously

1067
00:40:42.083 --> 00:40:44.458
worked on, because any time you do a secondary,

1068
00:40:44.833 --> 00:40:47.250
you're literally like carving out a part of the

1069
00:40:47.250 --> 00:40:49.666
image, treating it totally differently and then

1070
00:40:49.666 --> 00:40:51.708
trying to slap it back into that original image.

1071
00:40:51.708 --> 00:40:53.583
So that's always going to be problematic.

1072
00:40:53.875 --> 00:40:56.916
That's why, yeah, any time you pull a key, you have

1073
00:40:56.916 --> 00:40:59.208
to go in and watch it through, check for noise,

1074
00:40:59.416 --> 00:41:00.875
smooth it out, blur it, you

1075
00:41:00.875 --> 00:41:01.750
know, throw a window on it.

1076
00:41:01.750 --> 00:41:02.625
So it's only affecting the

1077
00:41:02.625 --> 00:41:03.541
part of the image you want.

1078
00:41:03.541 --> 00:41:04.791
You know, there's all these kind of extra steps you

1079
00:41:04.791 --> 00:41:06.125
have to do that eats up a lot of time.

1080
00:41:06.958 --> 00:41:08.458
And again, it's just not the best thing for the

1081
00:41:08.458 --> 00:41:11.500
image because you're really now kind of taking

1082
00:41:11.500 --> 00:41:12.875
things down a different path.

1083
00:41:12.875 --> 00:41:14.333
And that's something that, you know,

1084
00:41:14.333 --> 00:41:17.375
ideally you should never have to do.

1085
00:41:17.416 --> 00:41:19.875
You know, if you're able to capture an image you're

1086
00:41:19.875 --> 00:41:23.375
happy with, you should be able to just kind of mold

1087
00:41:23.375 --> 00:41:24.666
it to what you want to do

1088
00:41:24.666 --> 00:41:25.708
without having to tear it apart.

1089
00:41:27.250 --> 00:41:29.458
So, yeah, we're not going to completely replace

1090
00:41:29.458 --> 00:41:30.583
secondary color correction.

1091
00:41:30.583 --> 00:41:32.416
There were always be those times where you do want

1092
00:41:32.416 --> 00:41:35.833
to be super isolated with what you do or do have to

1093
00:41:35.833 --> 00:41:38.250
attack a very specific part of the image where they

1094
00:41:38.250 --> 00:41:39.375
weren't able to get light in on

1095
00:41:39.375 --> 00:41:41.041
the day on set or that sort of thing.

1096
00:41:41.041 --> 00:41:43.916
But for the vast majority of stuff, you know, if

1097
00:41:43.916 --> 00:41:45.458
it's lit pretty well, you shouldn't

1098
00:41:45.458 --> 00:41:47.000
have to carve up the image like that.

1099
00:41:48.291 --> 00:41:50.583
And not having to worry about that to constantly

1100
00:41:50.583 --> 00:41:51.833
have to go back and check,

1101
00:41:51.833 --> 00:41:53.041
oh, is the key noisy here?

1102
00:41:53.041 --> 00:41:53.833
Oh, is it tracking through

1103
00:41:53.833 --> 00:41:54.875
the whole length of the shot?

1104
00:41:54.875 --> 00:41:56.541
Just saves a tremendous amount of time in color

1105
00:41:56.541 --> 00:41:59.083
correction because you quickly with these primary

1106
00:41:59.083 --> 00:42:01.416
tools, you quickly develop the trust that, OK, if I

1107
00:42:01.416 --> 00:42:03.333
grade it well on this frame, that's going to

1108
00:42:03.333 --> 00:42:04.625
translate well to all these

1109
00:42:04.625 --> 00:42:05.583
other versions of the shot.

1110
00:42:05.958 --> 00:42:08.166
And you don't necessarily have to carefully QC them

1111
00:42:08.166 --> 00:42:09.666
all when you're setting the look, you just know

1112
00:42:09.666 --> 00:42:11.000
it's, you know, it's going to work.

1113
00:42:11.541 --> 00:42:14.500
So you're definitely time savers for sure.

1114
00:42:14.500 --> 00:42:16.375
I can see X grade adding a lot of

1115
00:42:16.375 --> 00:42:18.291
productivity to people's workflows.

1116
00:42:19.458 --> 00:42:23.000
ChromaGen is another new tool in V6,

1117
00:42:23.791 --> 00:42:26.458
which to me is just like its own beast.

1118
00:42:26.458 --> 00:42:27.666
It could be its own program.

1119
00:42:29.458 --> 00:42:30.833
Can you tell me a bit about chromagen?

1120
00:42:31.708 --> 00:42:34.083
Yeah, so chromagen is a look development tool.

1121
00:42:34.083 --> 00:42:37.083
So as opposed to X grade, which is very much for

1122
00:42:37.083 --> 00:42:39.000
kind of shot by shot grading, you know, adjusting

1123
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.666
each shot individually, chromagen is a set of tools

1124
00:42:41.666 --> 00:42:44.708
to help you develop a look that you might apply to

1125
00:42:44.708 --> 00:42:46.375
a whole sequence or even to a whole show.

1126
00:42:48.666 --> 00:42:53.083
And we developed the tools again in a human

1127
00:42:53.083 --> 00:42:55.666
perceptual space so that when you're manipulating

1128
00:42:55.666 --> 00:42:57.750
colors, you're doing it based on sound

1129
00:42:57.750 --> 00:42:59.291
photochemical photographic

1130
00:42:59.291 --> 00:43:01.083
principles and the way the human eye works.

1131
00:43:02.500 --> 00:43:06.166
And it's specifically designed to kind of be broad

1132
00:43:06.166 --> 00:43:09.375
enough strokes that they do translate well across a

1133
00:43:09.375 --> 00:43:10.125
variety of different

1134
00:43:10.125 --> 00:43:11.625
shooting conditions and images.

1135
00:43:12.041 --> 00:43:15.458
So you can't be too isolated with the controls.

1136
00:43:16.333 --> 00:43:18.083
Like you can't do what you would do with a color

1137
00:43:18.083 --> 00:43:19.875
key or stuff like that specifically so that it will

1138
00:43:19.875 --> 00:43:23.000
hold up to a wide range of shots.

1139
00:43:23.583 --> 00:43:27.166
But what we found was that even with all the color

1140
00:43:27.166 --> 00:43:30.250
tools in Baselight, there are some color operations

1141
00:43:30.250 --> 00:43:32.708
which are often a part of look development that

1142
00:43:32.708 --> 00:43:35.375
aren't easy to emulate with current color tools.

1143
00:43:35.666 --> 00:43:37.791
So particularly when you think about like emulating

1144
00:43:37.791 --> 00:43:40.708
a film look, there's a lot of crosstalk that

1145
00:43:40.708 --> 00:43:42.500
happens between the color channels.

1146
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.916
So like when you expose something that's green on

1147
00:43:46.916 --> 00:43:49.291
film, it's not just affecting the magenta dye

1148
00:43:49.291 --> 00:43:50.666
layer, which is where green is recorded.

1149
00:43:50.708 --> 00:43:53.125
It's actually bleeding into the

1150
00:43:53.125 --> 00:43:55.625
cyan  layers as well, a little bit.

1151
00:43:56.875 --> 00:44:00.083
So we developed matrices and things like that which

1152
00:44:00.083 --> 00:44:02.166
can emulate that process on a technical level.

1153
00:44:02.166 --> 00:44:04.000
But artistically, that wasn't something there was

1154
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:05.958
really a tool in the color

1155
00:44:05.958 --> 00:44:06.833
correction that can handle.

1156
00:44:07.083 --> 00:44:08.958
So we specifically want to make sure, OK, we can

1157
00:44:08.958 --> 00:44:12.208
adjust those kind of crosstalk

1158
00:44:12.208 --> 00:44:13.750
effects between the color channels.

1159
00:44:14.750 --> 00:44:16.750
But then also just kind of where

1160
00:44:16.750 --> 00:44:18.291
do you put the bumpers on your look?

1161
00:44:18.291 --> 00:44:22.375
So like if you want to be able to know that the

1162
00:44:22.375 --> 00:44:27.541
look for this show has a certain red quality to it.

1163
00:44:27.541 --> 00:44:29.333
Like you always want to skew towards a certain red.

1164
00:44:29.791 --> 00:44:31.916
And that could be for a commercial where it's like

1165
00:44:31.916 --> 00:44:33.291
a particular brand color you

1166
00:44:33.291 --> 00:44:34.416
want to make sure you're staying on.

1167
00:44:34.750 --> 00:44:36.708
Or it could be just when you're developing a

1168
00:44:36.708 --> 00:44:38.708
feature film or TV show or something like that.

1169
00:44:38.708 --> 00:44:39.416
Like there's certain kind of

1170
00:44:39.416 --> 00:44:42.000
signature colors you want that look to have.

1171
00:44:42.291 --> 00:44:44.583
And that's something you can do shot by shot with

1172
00:44:44.583 --> 00:44:46.416
Hue Shift and tools like that to kind of

1173
00:44:46.416 --> 00:44:48.166
consistently push things towards the same

1174
00:44:48.208 --> 00:44:50.291
flavor of red or towards the same flavor of blue.

1175
00:44:51.291 --> 00:44:53.791
But ChromaGen lets you do that as part of your

1176
00:44:53.791 --> 00:44:55.875
basic look development to say, OK, I

1177
00:44:55.875 --> 00:44:57.250
want all my reds to look like this.

1178
00:44:57.250 --> 00:44:59.750
And I want my dark reds to be this way and my

1179
00:44:59.750 --> 00:45:01.083
brighter reds to be this way.

1180
00:45:01.333 --> 00:45:02.833
Or I don't want to allow my reds to be too

1181
00:45:02.833 --> 00:45:04.083
saturated, but I do want my

1182
00:45:04.083 --> 00:45:05.500
blues and greens to be saturated.

1183
00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:07.166
So you kind of can define the color

1184
00:45:07.166 --> 00:45:08.750
space on which you're going to grade.

1185
00:45:09.166 --> 00:45:10.958
And then once you've set that look for the show,

1186
00:45:10.958 --> 00:45:12.833
you're just kind of grading, doing your adjustment

1187
00:45:12.833 --> 00:45:14.166
shot to shot underneath that.

1188
00:45:14.333 --> 00:45:16.416
But the broad strokes of the look are then set.

1189
00:45:17.375 --> 00:45:20.000
But yeah, it did end up becoming almost a color

1190
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.708
corrector within a color corrector because it's got

1191
00:45:21.708 --> 00:45:23.625
a whole bunch of tools for how you set up that

1192
00:45:23.625 --> 00:45:25.708
color space that you're going to work within or

1193
00:45:25.708 --> 00:45:26.875
that color palette really that

1194
00:45:26.875 --> 00:45:28.041
you're defining for your show.

1195
00:45:29.208 --> 00:45:30.041
But the idea is that these

1196
00:45:30.041 --> 00:45:31.791
are the stages, aren't they?

1197
00:45:31.791 --> 00:45:34.375
The stage that you have with all of the different

1198
00:45:34.375 --> 00:45:35.791
sort of would you call them

1199
00:45:35.791 --> 00:45:39.041
tools within the stages or options?

1200
00:45:40.541 --> 00:45:42.500
Well, I mean, we could we could just as easily call

1201
00:45:42.500 --> 00:45:44.291
them layers, but we didn't want to confuse them

1202
00:45:44.291 --> 00:45:46.875
with the layers that are already within your your

1203
00:45:46.875 --> 00:45:48.791
main grading stack in baselight.

1204
00:45:49.083 --> 00:45:51.250
So that's what we opted to call them stages.

1205
00:45:51.666 --> 00:45:53.750
And each one of those operators, I guess you could

1206
00:45:53.750 --> 00:45:58.041
say, just kind of a slightly different way of

1207
00:45:58.041 --> 00:46:00.083
tweaking the color and you can combine them in

1208
00:46:00.083 --> 00:46:01.291
different ways to kind of cover the

1209
00:46:01.291 --> 00:46:02.500
whole color space you want to cover.

1210
00:46:03.375 --> 00:46:07.041
Yeah, so I suppose, you know, where you might

1211
00:46:07.041 --> 00:46:11.833
otherwise use a look or perhaps a LUT or, you know,

1212
00:46:12.125 --> 00:46:15.166
create some curves that you're going to put across

1213
00:46:15.166 --> 00:46:18.083
everything, you would use ChromaGen instead.

1214
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:23.166
And using those stages, insert different tools that

1215
00:46:23.166 --> 00:46:25.958
are meaningful to the project you're on, like color

1216
00:46:25.958 --> 00:46:28.458
cross talk or contrast or...

1217
00:46:29.958 --> 00:46:33.000
There's a few that I'd never heard of before.

1218
00:46:33.375 --> 00:46:35.625
Like, can you talk me through, do you remember off

1219
00:46:35.625 --> 00:46:37.750
the top of your head what the stages are?

1220
00:46:38.708 --> 00:46:40.750
Because there's I'm putting on the spot here, but

1221
00:46:40.750 --> 00:46:43.750
there was some that I was like, I wouldn't know

1222
00:46:43.750 --> 00:46:45.750
what that was if I hadn't seen it here.

1223
00:46:46.583 --> 00:46:47.958
Well, yeah, some of them are named just because we

1224
00:46:47.958 --> 00:46:51.208
had to come up for the terminology, which isn't

1225
00:46:51.208 --> 00:46:52.791
something that regularly gets talked about.

1226
00:46:53.041 --> 00:46:56.000
So in some ways we're choosing the terms.

1227
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.125
They're not, you know, industry standard terms.

1228
00:46:58.375 --> 00:46:59.416
I thought I'd missed a memory.

1229
00:47:00.875 --> 00:47:03.291
No, but yeah, a lot of it came out of, you know,

1230
00:47:03.291 --> 00:47:06.125
for a long time in Baselite, we've had this look

1231
00:47:06.125 --> 00:47:08.208
tool which allows you to apply preset looks.

1232
00:47:08.208 --> 00:47:11.041
So if you want a Kodak film look or a Fujifilm look

1233
00:47:11.041 --> 00:47:13.708
or a reversal as negative look or a bleach bypass

1234
00:47:13.708 --> 00:47:14.750
look, you could apply those.

1235
00:47:15.250 --> 00:47:17.208
But they were like look up tables.

1236
00:47:17.208 --> 00:47:18.125
They were kind of, you

1237
00:47:18.125 --> 00:47:19.166
know, could turn them on or off.

1238
00:47:19.166 --> 00:47:20.416
You could vary the strength a little bit.

1239
00:47:20.416 --> 00:47:21.416
But that that was it.

1240
00:47:21.416 --> 00:47:22.916
Like, if you really like the film look, but you

1241
00:47:22.916 --> 00:47:25.208
just didn't like the way the greens came out, you

1242
00:47:25.208 --> 00:47:26.875
wanted the greens to be, you know,

1243
00:47:26.875 --> 00:47:28.291
more yellow or less yellow or whatever.

1244
00:47:28.333 --> 00:47:30.458
It was kind of hard to tweak that look because

1245
00:47:30.458 --> 00:47:33.875
everything is all tied together in this one LUT,

1246
00:47:33.875 --> 00:47:35.333
basically that gets applied or not.

1247
00:47:36.916 --> 00:47:38.750
So with ChromaGen, we're able to

1248
00:47:38.750 --> 00:47:40.375
reproduce those same kind of looks.

1249
00:47:40.375 --> 00:47:41.833
We can produce different film looks.

1250
00:47:41.833 --> 00:47:44.166
We can produce different photochemical processes or

1251
00:47:44.166 --> 00:47:45.666
just, you know, other other creative looks.

1252
00:47:46.041 --> 00:47:48.208
But now they're broken down into steps so you can

1253
00:47:48.208 --> 00:47:49.500
tweak just the part you want.

1254
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:51.250
So you can say, yeah, I love the Kodak film look,

1255
00:47:51.541 --> 00:47:54.666
but I don't want my highlights to be warmer.

1256
00:47:54.666 --> 00:47:55.416
I want them to stay neutral.

1257
00:47:56.416 --> 00:47:58.750
Or I do want my greens to be a little more green

1258
00:47:58.750 --> 00:47:59.750
and a little less yellow.

1259
00:47:59.750 --> 00:48:01.541
So you can tweak just those parts of the look that

1260
00:48:01.541 --> 00:48:03.916
you want rather than it being kind of all or

1261
00:48:03.916 --> 00:48:05.375
nothing thing that you would get with a LUT.

1262
00:48:06.041 --> 00:48:07.375
And are they going to be presets?

1263
00:48:07.875 --> 00:48:10.208
Because I feel like if it was a preset, I'd be

1264
00:48:10.208 --> 00:48:12.166
reaching for it all the time.

1265
00:48:12.916 --> 00:48:14.833
That's that's the way actually I recommend most

1266
00:48:14.833 --> 00:48:17.083
people introduce themselves to ChromaGen is, yeah,

1267
00:48:17.083 --> 00:48:17.958
we have a set of presets.

1268
00:48:19.208 --> 00:48:20.250
Some of them match the

1269
00:48:20.250 --> 00:48:22.041
existing looks in base light.

1270
00:48:22.041 --> 00:48:23.375
Some of them are totally new.

1271
00:48:24.125 --> 00:48:27.166
But yeah, I think that's that's certainly the way I

1272
00:48:27.166 --> 00:48:29.166
learn and am able to wrap my head around things

1273
00:48:29.166 --> 00:48:32.041
often is just by kind of just looking at examples

1274
00:48:32.041 --> 00:48:33.250
of what works and then picking it

1275
00:48:33.250 --> 00:48:35.208
apart and seeing how it got there.

1276
00:48:35.541 --> 00:48:37.500
So yeah, I definitely recommend people look at the

1277
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:39.625
presets and then just kind of just turn things on

1278
00:48:39.625 --> 00:48:40.958
and off, adjust the knobs,

1279
00:48:40.958 --> 00:48:41.958
see what each step is doing.

1280
00:48:41.958 --> 00:48:42.750
And then you start to

1281
00:48:42.750 --> 00:48:44.041
really wrap your head around it.

1282
00:48:44.708 --> 00:48:45.625
I mean, that's another one

1283
00:48:45.625 --> 00:48:47.291
that's well worth having a play with.

1284
00:48:47.291 --> 00:48:50.000
I know it's still in beta, but there are various

1285
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.041
places that are running the beta that you may be

1286
00:48:52.041 --> 00:48:53.833
able to get your hands on it or, you know,

1287
00:48:53.875 --> 00:48:55.958
of course, there's a lot of materials out there on

1288
00:48:55.958 --> 00:48:57.958
the FilmLight website about, you

1289
00:48:57.958 --> 00:48:59.208
know, showing you what it's going to do.

1290
00:48:59.708 --> 00:49:02.625
And who made that one?

1291
00:49:02.833 --> 00:49:04.041
Whose baby was that?

1292
00:49:04.875 --> 00:49:06.250
It's Daniele Siragusano.

1293
00:49:06.583 --> 00:49:09.458
Siragusano. So it's Daniele Siragusano, who's

1294
00:49:09.458 --> 00:49:12.875
one of our image pipeline

1295
00:49:12.875 --> 00:49:14.166
engineers based out of Germany.

1296
00:49:14.916 --> 00:49:17.125
He was really the chief architect on that working

1297
00:49:17.125 --> 00:49:19.041
closely with Richard Kirk, who's another one of our

1298
00:49:19.041 --> 00:49:20.041
color scientists in London.

1299
00:49:20.541 --> 00:49:21.041
So, yeah.

1300
00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:24.750
Wow. Okay. So I imagine that he's got a range of

1301
00:49:24.750 --> 00:49:26.500
resources that you could look at.

1302
00:49:26.500 --> 00:49:29.541
Is that I seem to have seen a couple of things

1303
00:49:29.541 --> 00:49:30.958
flowed into my inbox that

1304
00:49:30.958 --> 00:49:32.791
he's doing talks about it.

1305
00:49:33.458 --> 00:49:35.541
Yes. Yeah. So there's a number of videos already.

1306
00:49:35.916 --> 00:49:38.791
And certainly once version six launches, there'll

1307
00:49:38.791 --> 00:49:40.875
be a bunch more resources out there for to kind of

1308
00:49:40.875 --> 00:49:41.958
explain what all those different

1309
00:49:41.958 --> 00:49:43.583
different steps in the tool do.

1310
00:49:44.333 --> 00:49:46.541
And you mentioned Richard Kirk as well.

1311
00:49:46.541 --> 00:49:49.791
And just a side note, if anyone is interested in

1312
00:49:49.791 --> 00:49:51.625
color science at all, which you probably are, if

1313
00:49:51.625 --> 00:49:54.875
you're listening to this interview, his book, Color

1314
00:49:54.875 --> 00:49:57.291
Sense and Measurement is well worth a read.

1315
00:49:57.291 --> 00:49:57.958
And I believe you can

1316
00:49:57.958 --> 00:49:59.833
actually get a PDF of it online.

1317
00:50:01.583 --> 00:50:02.375
So, yeah, there's information

1318
00:50:02.375 --> 00:50:04.625
on that on the Filmlight website.

1319
00:50:04.625 --> 00:50:06.791
And it's definitely a great read because, yeah,

1320
00:50:06.791 --> 00:50:09.375
there's very few, as I said, early on kind of

1321
00:50:09.375 --> 00:50:12.625
resources for color in our industry.

1322
00:50:12.666 --> 00:50:15.958
You know, a lot of them are focused on pre-press

1323
00:50:15.958 --> 00:50:17.375
and photography and stuff like that.

1324
00:50:17.625 --> 00:50:19.875
So it's great that he wrote a book that's very

1325
00:50:19.875 --> 00:50:21.333
focused on color

1326
00:50:21.333 --> 00:50:22.958
management for film and television.

1327
00:50:23.458 --> 00:50:24.708
And it's actually really readable.

1328
00:50:25.250 --> 00:50:27.208
Like I was surprised. I thought, oh, my goodness,

1329
00:50:27.416 --> 00:50:28.500
what am I getting myself into?

1330
00:50:29.541 --> 00:50:31.000
You know, I'm going to be hit with a bunch of

1331
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:32.208
equations and my eyes are

1332
00:50:32.208 --> 00:50:33.291
going to glaze over real quick.

1333
00:50:33.291 --> 00:50:35.250
But it was actually a page turner.

1334
00:50:35.250 --> 00:50:38.250
So he's got a really good

1335
00:50:38.250 --> 00:50:40.791
kind of personality behind it.

1336
00:50:40.833 --> 00:50:43.083
I think it's not dry at all. So

1337
00:50:43.083 --> 00:50:44.375
it's so well worth a check out.

1338
00:50:45.041 --> 00:50:51.083
And I saw that recently you did some talking about

1339
00:50:51.083 --> 00:50:54.458
cloud grading, grading in the cloud.

1340
00:50:55.916 --> 00:50:58.333
Is that something that's new for version six?

1341
00:50:58.333 --> 00:50:59.791
They're going to be new tools for that.

1342
00:51:01.041 --> 00:51:02.666
Because I haven't actually watched it, so I'd be

1343
00:51:02.666 --> 00:51:05.458
really interested to have a recap on that one.

1344
00:51:06.291 --> 00:51:07.625
Yeah, no, it's not new for version six.

1345
00:51:07.666 --> 00:51:09.750
So, yeah, we've been able to run Baselight in the

1346
00:51:09.750 --> 00:51:11.041
cloud for a little while now.

1347
00:51:12.041 --> 00:51:13.750
Initially, it was just the render engine.

1348
00:51:13.958 --> 00:51:15.750
So if you just wanted to render or transcode a

1349
00:51:15.750 --> 00:51:17.375
bunch of media in the cloud,

1350
00:51:17.375 --> 00:51:18.833
that's been available for a long time.

1351
00:51:19.583 --> 00:51:22.458
The new thing that we partnered with Amazon almost

1352
00:51:22.458 --> 00:51:24.625
a year and a half ago now was to be able to run

1353
00:51:24.625 --> 00:51:25.875
actually a fully interactive

1354
00:51:25.875 --> 00:51:27.541
Baselight session in the cloud.

1355
00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:30.375
So all the storage, all the image processing,

1356
00:51:30.375 --> 00:51:32.000
everything was done in the cloud and you're just

1357
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.166
getting the output streamed down to you.

1358
00:51:34.916 --> 00:51:36.791
And of course, the big challenge for color

1359
00:51:36.791 --> 00:51:38.041
correction is that it

1360
00:51:38.041 --> 00:51:39.375
needs to be super interactive.

1361
00:51:39.750 --> 00:51:42.416
If you're adjusting a trackball or a knob, you need

1362
00:51:42.416 --> 00:51:44.166
to see the change to the image right away.

1363
00:51:44.583 --> 00:51:48.125
If you're spinning a dial and then a second or two

1364
00:51:48.125 --> 00:51:49.666
later, the image changes, you're going to

1365
00:51:49.666 --> 00:51:52.083
constantly be like overshooting or undershooting or

1366
00:51:52.083 --> 00:51:53.416
not knowing what you're doing.

1367
00:51:53.708 --> 00:51:56.291
So that was the biggest thing we really had to

1368
00:51:56.291 --> 00:51:59.000
overcome was getting that latency down.

1369
00:52:00.583 --> 00:52:02.125
And we basically done it.

1370
00:52:02.125 --> 00:52:04.041
So we now have high quality image streaming with

1371
00:52:04.041 --> 00:52:05.791
very low latency out of the cloud.

1372
00:52:08.791 --> 00:52:10.416
Color grading in the cloud on its

1373
00:52:10.416 --> 00:52:12.166
own, I think, doesn't make much sense.

1374
00:52:12.166 --> 00:52:14.083
Like you wouldn't do a production the traditional

1375
00:52:14.083 --> 00:52:15.833
way and then push everything up with

1376
00:52:15.833 --> 00:52:17.166
the cloud just to color correct it.

1377
00:52:17.791 --> 00:52:19.791
The economics and the time involved

1378
00:52:19.791 --> 00:52:21.291
to do that doesn't make any sense.

1379
00:52:21.291 --> 00:52:23.875
But as studios are looking at doing more and more

1380
00:52:23.875 --> 00:52:25.916
of their work in the cloud already, there is a lot

1381
00:52:25.916 --> 00:52:27.250
of VFX work done in the cloud.

1382
00:52:27.250 --> 00:52:28.083
That's pretty standard.

1383
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.458
But if you're also doing your editing and your

1384
00:52:31.458 --> 00:52:33.000
sound mixing and everything else, then it makes

1385
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.375
sense to keep it in the cloud for color correction

1386
00:52:35.375 --> 00:52:36.583
because it's possible now.

1387
00:52:37.083 --> 00:52:38.750
And ultimately to the colorist, it

1388
00:52:38.750 --> 00:52:40.041
shouldn't really feel any different.

1389
00:52:40.958 --> 00:52:44.125
They shouldn't know the difference between whether

1390
00:52:44.125 --> 00:52:45.958
they're working on a baselight that is in the

1391
00:52:45.958 --> 00:52:48.583
machine room down the hall or in some cloud data

1392
00:52:48.583 --> 00:52:49.875
center hundreds of miles away.

1393
00:52:50.833 --> 00:52:52.500
And so that's what we worked on is just making it

1394
00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:55.708
possible that you could work either way.

1395
00:52:56.541 --> 00:52:58.291
And that's pretty much all working.

1396
00:52:58.291 --> 00:53:00.791
So there's definitely, again, some economic things

1397
00:53:00.791 --> 00:53:02.375
you have to consider with how you deploy the

1398
00:53:02.375 --> 00:53:03.541
resources in the cloud and

1399
00:53:03.541 --> 00:53:05.041
the time to set it all up.

1400
00:53:05.041 --> 00:53:06.833
But, yeah, the technology is there and ready.

1401
00:53:07.708 --> 00:53:11.291
That's amazing. I just do use a virtual machine to

1402
00:53:11.291 --> 00:53:13.625
color grade seems like another another world.

1403
00:53:14.500 --> 00:53:18.958
I mean, one thing which is unique to base light is

1404
00:53:18.958 --> 00:53:22.458
that it's turnkey system and you've got certain

1405
00:53:22.458 --> 00:53:24.458
configurations that you support and

1406
00:53:24.458 --> 00:53:26.791
you know that that is going to work.

1407
00:53:26.833 --> 00:53:28.208
So so those are the ones that you

1408
00:53:28.208 --> 00:53:31.458
sell. Is it the same in the cloud?

1409
00:53:31.458 --> 00:53:32.916
You found the configuration now

1410
00:53:32.916 --> 00:53:34.458
that works and that's the one.

1411
00:53:35.458 --> 00:53:37.541
Yeah. So it's still kind of preset configurations.

1412
00:53:37.833 --> 00:53:39.791
And a big reason for that is really just for the

1413
00:53:39.791 --> 00:53:42.333
support so that we know if there's something that's

1414
00:53:42.333 --> 00:53:43.916
not working right, it's on us.

1415
00:53:44.208 --> 00:53:45.875
Whether it's a hardware issue, a software issue, a

1416
00:53:45.875 --> 00:53:48.208
config issue, you know, you have one number to call

1417
00:53:48.208 --> 00:53:49.750
and we'll we'll sort it out.

1418
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:53.291
So I mean, that support is pretty incredible.

1419
00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:56.791
While I was in the office with you that week, I was

1420
00:53:56.791 --> 00:54:00.333
seeing the phone ringing all the time and you were

1421
00:54:00.333 --> 00:54:01.666
plugged into the community

1422
00:54:01.666 --> 00:54:03.541
and helping people in real time.

1423
00:54:03.791 --> 00:54:07.041
And the experience of using a base light is is

1424
00:54:07.041 --> 00:54:10.916
having that plug in to this community of people

1425
00:54:10.916 --> 00:54:12.291
who, you know, you're not

1426
00:54:12.291 --> 00:54:13.875
talking to somebody who's selling it.

1427
00:54:13.875 --> 00:54:16.083
You're talking to someone who's actually made it

1428
00:54:16.083 --> 00:54:17.625
and who has a stake in it.

1429
00:54:18.083 --> 00:54:20.250
You know, like I remember actually an anecdote of

1430
00:54:20.250 --> 00:54:22.541
one of my friends saying, oh, I was complaining to

1431
00:54:22.541 --> 00:54:24.708
Bob about something to do with the control surface.

1432
00:54:24.708 --> 00:54:26.833
And he's like, oh, I actually did some of the

1433
00:54:26.833 --> 00:54:27.916
electronics and now what

1434
00:54:27.916 --> 00:54:29.875
is it that what's going on?

1435
00:54:29.875 --> 00:54:33.500
You know, can you talk to me at all about that

1436
00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:37.083
support aspect and just being there for people?

1437
00:54:37.791 --> 00:54:39.958
Yeah, I mean, that's a huge part of what we do and

1438
00:54:39.958 --> 00:54:42.333
a huge part of why I like working for Filmlight is

1439
00:54:42.333 --> 00:54:44.708
we are, you know, a relatively small company who's

1440
00:54:44.708 --> 00:54:45.958
focused on color correction

1441
00:54:45.958 --> 00:54:47.000
and focused on this industry.

1442
00:54:47.333 --> 00:54:51.708
And it's it is a very innovative industry.

1443
00:54:51.708 --> 00:54:53.750
So as we said, there's new cameras, new display

1444
00:54:53.750 --> 00:54:55.125
devices coming out all the time.

1445
00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:57.791
But also filmmakers are looking to push things in

1446
00:54:57.791 --> 00:54:59.291
different directions and different ways.

1447
00:54:59.666 --> 00:55:03.291
So we're constantly involved in new projects and

1448
00:55:03.291 --> 00:55:05.916
new things and new ways of doing things.

1449
00:55:06.416 --> 00:55:09.791
And yeah, so it's great that we can be a resource

1450
00:55:09.791 --> 00:55:12.875
there to filmmakers or, oh, hey, someone just

1451
00:55:12.875 --> 00:55:14.250
walked in the door with this camera.

1452
00:55:14.250 --> 00:55:15.125
I've never seen it before.

1453
00:55:15.166 --> 00:55:16.958
Is there anything I need to know, any kind of

1454
00:55:16.958 --> 00:55:18.625
caveats to what we could tell them?

1455
00:55:18.625 --> 00:55:19.416
Well, here's our experience

1456
00:55:19.416 --> 00:55:20.291
here that we've discovered.

1457
00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:21.791
And, you know, if you learn

1458
00:55:21.791 --> 00:55:23.166
anything new, let us know, too.

1459
00:55:23.166 --> 00:55:25.250
So sometimes we are acting as kind of like a little

1460
00:55:25.250 --> 00:55:28.583
bit of a middleman to be able to get firsthand

1461
00:55:28.583 --> 00:55:30.583
experience with with new cameras and new display

1462
00:55:30.583 --> 00:55:32.708
devices and then share that with other people who

1463
00:55:32.708 --> 00:55:35.166
are who are working on them later down the line.

1464
00:55:36.125 --> 00:55:38.250
And also, like, you've got all of these backwards

1465
00:55:38.250 --> 00:55:39.791
compatible tools, like you've got

1466
00:55:39.791 --> 00:55:41.583
all of these legacy tools there.

1467
00:55:41.625 --> 00:55:45.166
So, you know, I imagine that it's not just the new

1468
00:55:45.166 --> 00:55:46.666
technology that you're supporting.

1469
00:55:46.666 --> 00:55:49.041
Like, if I was to unarchive something from 10 years

1470
00:55:49.041 --> 00:55:52.125
ago now and try to get my head around it,

1471
00:55:52.125 --> 00:55:53.083
especially if it was somebody

1472
00:55:53.083 --> 00:55:56.125
else's job, I think I'd go crazy.

1473
00:55:56.583 --> 00:55:58.916
So, you know, is that also something that you're

1474
00:55:58.916 --> 00:56:02.500
supporting people unarchiving old jobs as well?

1475
00:56:02.500 --> 00:56:05.208
Yeah, that's kind of one of the founding principles

1476
00:56:05.208 --> 00:56:07.375
with the way Baselite was built, is that you can go

1477
00:56:07.375 --> 00:56:09.500
back to any Baselite you've seen, no matter how

1478
00:56:09.500 --> 00:56:11.166
many years ago, and upgrade it.

1479
00:56:11.208 --> 00:56:13.375
And it'll still work and produce the same image in

1480
00:56:13.375 --> 00:56:14.500
the current release of Baselite.

1481
00:56:15.541 --> 00:56:16.958
So, yeah, I was actually just talking to someone a

1482
00:56:16.958 --> 00:56:19.500
few days ago who had an archival project from I

1483
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:21.666
think it's 12 or 13 years ago, they wanted to bring

1484
00:56:21.666 --> 00:56:23.333
back online and they were able to.

1485
00:56:23.333 --> 00:56:25.791
So they were able to recover that job, see exactly

1486
00:56:25.791 --> 00:56:28.250
what was done to the image and then tweak it from

1487
00:56:28.250 --> 00:56:30.541
there for the new new pass that they wanted to do.

1488
00:56:30.625 --> 00:56:35.125
Wow. And is it true that they would be able to use

1489
00:56:35.125 --> 00:56:39.291
the databases saved undo's to go back and undo

1490
00:56:39.291 --> 00:56:41.791
everything in that 12 year old job?

1491
00:56:42.375 --> 00:56:44.500
Yeah, exactly. Again, that's just the way Baselite

1492
00:56:44.500 --> 00:56:46.041
stores its project files.

1493
00:56:46.250 --> 00:56:48.333
It's basically a history of every key press and

1494
00:56:48.333 --> 00:56:49.291
every change you've done.

1495
00:56:49.291 --> 00:56:51.583
So you can literally hit undo and see every step

1496
00:56:51.583 --> 00:56:54.291
that was made to get to where you were.

1497
00:56:55.125 --> 00:56:56.791
And that could be great for us in support too,

1498
00:56:56.791 --> 00:56:58.833
because if someone kind of paints themselves in a

1499
00:56:58.833 --> 00:57:00.125
corner, we can actually undo and

1500
00:57:00.125 --> 00:57:01.875
see every step they went to get there.

1501
00:57:01.875 --> 00:57:02.750
So we can actually pick it

1502
00:57:02.750 --> 00:57:03.791
apart and see what was done.

1503
00:57:05.291 --> 00:57:07.833
So what does your typical day look like? Are you

1504
00:57:07.833 --> 00:57:10.250
fielding support calls a lot of the time?

1505
00:57:10.250 --> 00:57:12.666
Are you working on special projects?

1506
00:57:14.625 --> 00:57:16.083
Yeah, all of the above. I mean, I think I'm pretty

1507
00:57:16.083 --> 00:57:18.208
lucky in that I don't have a typical day.

1508
00:57:19.625 --> 00:57:21.666
Sometimes I'm doing training with the colorist.

1509
00:57:22.083 --> 00:57:24.625
Sometimes I'm just kind of jumping in on support

1510
00:57:24.625 --> 00:57:26.041
calls, picking up the phone with

1511
00:57:26.041 --> 00:57:27.916
my background in color science.

1512
00:57:27.916 --> 00:57:30.416
Like I tend to focus more on the support calls that

1513
00:57:30.416 --> 00:57:33.541
are much more kind of color workflow oriented or

1514
00:57:33.541 --> 00:57:34.666
color calibration oriented,

1515
00:57:34.791 --> 00:57:37.208
where we have other people on the support team who

1516
00:57:37.208 --> 00:57:40.250
will focus more on technical issues integrating

1517
00:57:40.250 --> 00:57:41.958
with storage or things like that.

1518
00:57:43.125 --> 00:57:44.083
And then sometimes it's

1519
00:57:44.083 --> 00:57:45.291
just completely new projects.

1520
00:57:45.291 --> 00:57:47.750
I actually just got back. I was in Las Vegas last

1521
00:57:47.750 --> 00:57:50.708
weekend for the premiere of Deron Aronosky's

1522
00:57:50.708 --> 00:57:52.958
Postcard from Earth at the Sphere in Las Vegas,

1523
00:57:53.583 --> 00:57:55.958
which is this giant LED wall.

1524
00:57:56.291 --> 00:57:58.416
That's I forget how many stories, but it's like a

1525
00:57:58.416 --> 00:58:02.666
16000 seat venue with a giant LED wall that

1526
00:58:02.666 --> 00:58:03.958
completely surrounds your vision.

1527
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:07.041
So there were some unique challenges in getting

1528
00:58:07.041 --> 00:58:09.541
that project over the finish line for color

1529
00:58:09.541 --> 00:58:11.541
calibration and also just dealing with the geometry

1530
00:58:11.541 --> 00:58:13.458
of the space and the screen and all that.

1531
00:58:14.250 --> 00:58:17.291
So yeah. Wow. Oh, can you tell me more about that?

1532
00:58:17.291 --> 00:58:19.791
What was your involvement in the sphere?

1533
00:58:19.791 --> 00:58:20.708
Because everyone's talking

1534
00:58:20.708 --> 00:58:22.625
about it with U2 playing there.

1535
00:58:23.666 --> 00:58:25.833
Yeah. Yeah. So some of it under

1536
00:58:25.833 --> 00:58:27.625
NDA therefore, I can't go into too much detail.

1537
00:58:27.916 --> 00:58:28.583
Of course. Of course.

1538
00:58:29.750 --> 00:58:33.791
But yeah, so the colorist for the first kind of

1539
00:58:33.791 --> 00:58:36.541
traditional film that was produced for the sphere

1540
00:58:36.541 --> 00:58:39.125
was Tim Sippen and Andre Rivas

1541
00:58:39.125 --> 00:58:40.500
was the assistant colorist on that.

1542
00:58:41.083 --> 00:58:44.458
So he's supporting those guys and what Sphere

1543
00:58:44.458 --> 00:58:46.958
Studios, because they built a studio specifically

1544
00:58:46.958 --> 00:58:49.208
to produce content for this this venue,

1545
00:58:49.916 --> 00:58:52.750
Sphere Studios built their own camera called the

1546
00:58:52.750 --> 00:58:56.291
Big Sky Camera, which had a fisheye lens on it to

1547
00:58:56.291 --> 00:59:00.916
be able to capture an 18K by 18K source image to

1548
00:59:00.916 --> 00:59:02.625
put into the into the sphere.

1549
00:59:03.541 --> 00:59:06.250
So, yeah, there was making sure that the color from

1550
00:59:06.250 --> 00:59:08.125
that camera was coming into base light correctly

1551
00:59:08.125 --> 00:59:11.583
and then developing the color profiles for the

1552
00:59:11.583 --> 00:59:14.541
venues so that when they project itself on the

1553
00:59:14.541 --> 00:59:15.750
screen, it had all the right colors.

1554
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:19.541
And of course, we can't do so that the ultimately

1555
00:59:19.541 --> 00:59:22.875
the playback in that venue is a 16K

1556
00:59:22.875 --> 00:59:25.041
by 16K image at 60 frames per second.

1557
00:59:25.375 --> 00:59:26.666
So it's a huge amount of data

1558
00:59:26.666 --> 00:59:28.000
being thrown up on that screen.

1559
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:28.833
Obviously, you can't color

1560
00:59:28.833 --> 00:59:29.916
correct that in real time.

1561
00:59:30.416 --> 00:59:33.458
So most of the time, Tim and the team were working

1562
00:59:33.458 --> 00:59:35.000
off of proxies just on a

1563
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:38.000
standard Sony X310 monitor.

1564
00:59:38.916 --> 00:59:40.833
So again, the color calibration, making sure that

1565
00:59:40.833 --> 00:59:44.458
that monitor matched the color of the venue and

1566
00:59:44.458 --> 00:59:46.291
then also just dealing with the spherical mapping

1567
00:59:46.291 --> 00:59:48.166
to be able to look at the image in different ways

1568
00:59:48.166 --> 00:59:50.250
on that flat square to get an idea of what it would

1569
00:59:50.250 --> 00:59:51.291
look like when you're

1570
00:59:51.291 --> 00:59:52.333
surrounded by it in the sphere.

1571
00:59:52.666 --> 00:59:53.708
So, yeah, a lot of fun and

1572
00:59:53.708 --> 00:59:54.708
fun new challenges in that.

1573
00:59:54.791 --> 00:59:56.375
Wow, I can't imagine.

1574
00:59:57.208 --> 00:59:59.916
Just I just had this like image in my mind of them

1575
00:59:59.916 --> 01:00:03.083
just grading and looking at the sphere, just like

1576
01:00:03.083 --> 01:00:07.083
standing out there in, you know, Las Vegas on the

1577
01:00:07.083 --> 01:00:10.541
strip and with a little desk in front of them.

1578
01:00:11.833 --> 01:00:14.166
Yeah, we we we hope to get to that

1579
01:00:14.166 --> 01:00:16.541
point at some further down the road.

1580
01:00:16.541 --> 01:00:20.083
But also, you know, of course, that that the sphere

1581
01:00:20.083 --> 01:00:21.041
is now very much in demand.

1582
01:00:21.041 --> 01:00:22.166
There are U2 concerts in there.

1583
01:00:22.166 --> 01:00:23.791
They're playing the film regularly there.

1584
01:00:23.791 --> 01:00:25.541
So it's not unfortunately a space you can just kind

1585
01:00:25.541 --> 01:00:28.250
of take over for a few days and do what you want.

1586
01:00:28.250 --> 01:00:30.083
And it's it's a, you know, it's a live venue.

1587
01:00:30.541 --> 01:00:31.958
So, yeah, it's just

1588
01:00:31.958 --> 01:00:33.375
building the workflow around it.

1589
01:00:33.791 --> 01:00:35.291
It seems like something that belongs in Dubai.

1590
01:00:36.125 --> 01:00:39.291
It's just such a bizarre, such a bizarre thing.

1591
01:00:39.666 --> 01:00:42.750
Was it interesting to see in in life, in real life?

1592
01:00:42.750 --> 01:00:45.125
Like what what did it look like as a viewer?

1593
01:00:45.875 --> 01:00:48.750
Yeah, no, it's definitely it's a very immersive

1594
01:00:48.750 --> 01:00:50.250
environment, very unique.

1595
01:00:50.541 --> 01:00:53.000
You know, in some ways, it's an evolution of

1596
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:57.166
previous dome projections like OmniMax.

1597
01:00:57.166 --> 01:00:57.916
IMAX have this.

1598
01:00:58.625 --> 01:01:00.833
They still do actually have an OmniMax, which is

1599
01:01:00.833 --> 01:01:03.541
basically IMAX film projected on a dome or, you

1600
01:01:03.541 --> 01:01:05.500
know, some planetariums will have

1601
01:01:05.500 --> 01:01:07.041
digital shows that they can project.

1602
01:01:07.416 --> 01:01:09.458
So in some ways, it's an evolution of that.

1603
01:01:09.458 --> 01:01:13.958
But because it's a LED wall, you know, there's no

1604
01:01:13.958 --> 01:01:16.541
optical artifacts or anything about

1605
01:01:16.541 --> 01:01:17.708
you have to deal with in projection.

1606
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.958
It's just the light directly coming at you.

1607
01:01:19.958 --> 01:01:22.208
It's much higher dynamic range so it can get much

1608
01:01:22.208 --> 01:01:23.666
deeper blacks, much brighter whites.

1609
01:01:23.666 --> 01:01:26.083
And of course, the resolution is pretty insane.

1610
01:01:27.333 --> 01:01:30.250
So, yeah, when you're sitting in that venue and

1611
01:01:30.250 --> 01:01:32.291
it's completely filling your peripheral vision,

1612
01:01:32.291 --> 01:01:33.250
like any time the camera

1613
01:01:33.250 --> 01:01:34.666
moves, you feel like you're moving.

1614
01:01:36.083 --> 01:01:38.291
Yeah, it's just totally immersive that way.

1615
01:01:38.291 --> 01:01:41.125
And when you're yeah, when the so Postcard from Earth

1616
01:01:41.125 --> 01:01:43.666
 has shots from all over the world and all

1617
01:01:43.666 --> 01:01:44.541
these different environments.

1618
01:01:44.916 --> 01:01:46.291
So, yeah, like when you're in the underwater

1619
01:01:46.291 --> 01:01:48.791
sequences and the waves are over your head and the

1620
01:01:48.791 --> 01:01:49.791
fish are down in front of you.

1621
01:01:49.791 --> 01:01:52.708
It really is, you know, much more immersive than a

1622
01:01:52.708 --> 01:01:54.333
traditional theatrical experience.

1623
01:01:54.333 --> 01:01:55.041
So it's really unique.

1624
01:01:55.541 --> 01:01:57.333
I'll definitely be heading to

1625
01:01:57.333 --> 01:01:58.958
check it out next time I'm over.

1626
01:01:58.958 --> 01:02:02.000
That's for sure. And you guys have a system that

1627
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:04.375
can deal with that that large file.

1628
01:02:04.875 --> 01:02:05.916
Yeah. So, I mean, that

1629
01:02:05.916 --> 01:02:07.500
actually was nothing new for baselight.

1630
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.791
We had always architected baselight to be kind

1631
01:02:09.791 --> 01:02:11.750
of resolution independent and we'd always, you

1632
01:02:11.750 --> 01:02:13.375
know, so whatever resolution image you could throw

1633
01:02:13.375 --> 01:02:14.875
at it, you know, we can't

1634
01:02:14.875 --> 01:02:16.166
promise how fast that it will be.

1635
01:02:16.166 --> 01:02:17.416
But it will at least, you

1636
01:02:17.416 --> 01:02:18.458
know, produce an image and work.

1637
01:02:18.541 --> 01:02:20.375
So, again, a lot of the real time

1638
01:02:20.375 --> 01:02:22.000
adjustments had to be done off proxies.

1639
01:02:22.416 --> 01:02:24.041
But, you know, there are 4K proxies.

1640
01:02:24.041 --> 01:02:26.666
So 4K is the proxy and 16K was

1641
01:02:26.666 --> 01:02:28.166
ultimately what was what was rendered.

1642
01:02:28.916 --> 01:02:30.666
Wow. I bet that took a

1643
01:02:30.666 --> 01:02:31.750
while to render, but it's OK.

1644
01:02:31.750 --> 01:02:33.041
You don't have to tell me how long.

1645
01:02:34.958 --> 01:02:37.958
Well, look, I reckon I've probably covered most of

1646
01:02:37.958 --> 01:02:40.041
most of the questions that I had for you.

1647
01:02:40.041 --> 01:02:42.916
But I just find it super interesting what you've

1648
01:02:42.916 --> 01:02:46.041
been able to do in your career and how much

1649
01:02:46.041 --> 01:02:48.416
everyday stuff that we take

1650
01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:51.916
for granted, you know, has actually been the result

1651
01:02:51.916 --> 01:02:55.041
of committees and companies

1652
01:02:55.041 --> 01:02:56.750
that you that you've worked in.

1653
01:02:56.750 --> 01:03:00.166
And I think really it's it's, you know, people who

1654
01:03:00.166 --> 01:03:03.125
are doing all of this work in the background to

1655
01:03:03.125 --> 01:03:04.958
make sure that things really

1656
01:03:04.958 --> 01:03:06.291
look the best that they can.

1657
01:03:06.291 --> 01:03:08.125
That gives us colorists the

1658
01:03:08.125 --> 01:03:09.458
ability to do what we do.

1659
01:03:09.458 --> 01:03:11.458
So I can't thank you enough for your contribution

1660
01:03:11.458 --> 01:03:15.083
to the craft and just for for being available and

1661
01:03:15.083 --> 01:03:17.208
having a chat and, you know,

1662
01:03:17.208 --> 01:03:18.208
being at the other end of the phone

1663
01:03:18.333 --> 01:03:20.208
support. It's it's awesome.

1664
01:03:21.250 --> 01:03:23.208
So thanks a lot. Well, thanks.

1665
01:03:23.208 --> 01:03:24.958
Yeah, that's really nice to hear. And yeah, like I

1666
01:03:24.958 --> 01:03:28.500
said, it's I if, you know, the creative process is

1667
01:03:28.500 --> 01:03:29.625
just able to go smooth and you

1668
01:03:29.625 --> 01:03:30.916
don't even think of that technology.

1669
01:03:30.916 --> 01:03:32.041
Then, you know, then we've won.

1670
01:03:32.041 --> 01:03:33.166
That's that's really our goal.

1671
01:03:33.166 --> 01:03:35.708
So yeah, it feels a bit like that in coloring, too.

1672
01:03:35.708 --> 01:03:36.875
It's like if no one notices what

1673
01:03:36.875 --> 01:03:38.791
we've done, then we've done a good job.

1674
01:03:39.041 --> 01:03:41.791
So we're very self-effacing in this field.

1675
01:03:43.041 --> 01:03:44.833
Yeah. Well, thank you so much.

1676
01:03:45.208 --> 01:03:47.291
Peter Postma, I'm Kayleigh Bateman from Mixing

1677
01:03:47.291 --> 01:03:48.791
Light, and I'll see you next time.