Intro: checking in on Boz's heart,
atrial fibrillation, going to the doctor.
Interview: We talk to
Kat Phillips about fire pet rescue, being a Commissioner on
Human Rights in Sonoma County, coming to Chicago for the first time from Indiana, competition vs lifting each other up, seeing life as an improv game, almost not getting the role and working with Mel Gibson on
Payback, subverting the dominant paradigm by playing punk rock Juliet, the
Hothouse, gibberish operatic improv, the upcoming director's cut of
But I'm A Cheerleader, and the lovely surprise of finding all kinds of people you know on TV!
FULL TRANSCRIPTSpeaker 1: (
00:08)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? I mean, you know, it's all good, right? It's all,
Speaker 2: (
00:34)
It's fine. As long as my heart keeps beating, you know, I'm fine. I know when you wake up in the morning, do you have that, like one of your first thoughts? Like is my heart. Okay. Yeah. It's more, it's interesting. So [inaudible] happens more at night when you lay down. If you're going to have it at that's the time, because your heart usually sends your brain sensing most to your heart, we're going to sleep calm down. And if you have a fib, it doesn't calm down. So I'm always like, is it? But I am okay. And I'm on medicine to slow it down. So, um, I know I'm covered and the other thing, but yes, the answer is yes to that question, but I also then can calm myself down because they did so many tests on my heart while I was there. That I, they know it's fine.
Speaker 2: (
01:16)
There's no sign of heart disease. So it's more like, um, yeah, it's just anxiety. That's what it is. It's it's hard anxiety. All right. Well, since we S we tend to do so many, um, you know, public service announcements for our adoring public, tell us what it is like to get your heart tested. Like what do they do? Okay. So it's really, it's quite crazy. Um, so first of all, they just take tons of blood and you realize that it's true. What they say, that you could fill up three bathtubs with your blood, or to ask Aaron, ask Erin, I couldn't make that up, but my nurse said that, but, you know, she said, I guess it depends on how big you are. But she said that she said that, um, I think she said two or three bathtubs of blood. If you emptied out a person.
Speaker 2: (
02:03)
And I was like, uh, cause, cause they took 10 vials of blood over two days, like big vials. And I was like, am I gonna bleed my going to bleed to death? And she was like, no, honey, but she may have been using what hyperbole or whatever. I don't know. But the point is we have a lot of blood in there, but anyway, so first they did a battery of blood tests and everything was fine. So that didn't freak me out. But what is freaky is the echo-cardiogram. So the echocardiogram is where it's basically an ultrasound of your heart. However, they shoot you with dye so they can see it. And you have to lay in these weird positions and they're literally like moving your ribs out of the way, moving your organs out of the way to get to the heart on the outside.
Speaker 2: (
02:50)
So they don't go inside anywhere. Um, but it's like late lean here in, and at that time I was and puking. So I was like, lady, I was like, can we she's like, you're really sweaty. I'm like, no I've been, I'm like having some kind of problem here. And she's like, Oh, but she doesn't care. Her job is to get the tests done. She right. He was funny since she was doing a heart test, but she was literally the most caring one. And I understand she's got to get these pictures of the heart. And at one point I made the mistake. I should've never done this, but I said, how's it looking?
Speaker 2: (
03:32)
She goes, I can't tell you that it will be read by your cardiologist. I'm not allowed to say anything. And I said, Oh, I don't know why it just came out of my mouth because I was so nervous. And I was like, what does she see? Is she seeing well, I, my only, I think I can relate to it. That is when you go to get your ultrasound, when you're having a baby, you know, you are kind of trying to read the person's face, but they do say, I mean, just to be, they always say like, well, you know, obviously everything has to be interpreted by your doctor, but it's like, it's looking good. It's looking good to me just to say like, they're not like, wow. Well, she goes, she, she did. She helped me out because I was like, Oh my God, she's not going to say anything.
Speaker 2: (
04:15)
But then she goes, but you know, she goes, I can't say anything, but at the same time, I'm not running out of here. Call getting ICU on the phone or whatever, or like the heart doctor on the phone. So that made me feel better. And I did know already that my heart was beating irregularly. So I thought, well, maybe she's just talking about that, that it, but I thought, Oh, what if she see something else? Cause that's where they can really see if there's heart disease. If there's, um, valve problems, clogged arteries, they can see that with the, with the ultrasound. Um, um, and they take, I always forget with, with ultrasounds and with MRIs, I didn't have an MRI this time, but it's, it takes forever. They, they, they, because they're measuring each function of the heart, but so basically half naked on your side, but then being told to contort and then being told to hold your breath, when you feel nauseous and have to puke and you're sweating just to hold your breath.
Speaker 2: (
05:07)
And I was like, Oh, I'm going to, this is not going to end well, like we, it is going to be, but I made it because you weren't sick. You had a virus. I had a virus and heart was beating. It re it was the worst. That was the low point of my stay was Monday morning when she was like, and hold your breath. I was like, Oh my God. She goes, how you doing? I said, I'm dripping with sweat. I have a fever. I don't feel well. And she would, and I didn't say it rudely, but I was just like, I'm not feeling well. And she goes, okay, we're almost done. And they say that, and they're never almost done. So, um, and she, then she had to inject more die, whatever. So the point is, it's a weird thing. And also I am so grateful.
Speaker 2: (
05:45)
I I'm telling you, I don't. I consider myself a pretty positive person, but I I'm really grateful that it happened so that I know my baselines for my heart functioning. So another PSA for our listeners go to the Dr. Le listen, I know if you're shamed about, if you feel something's wrong, go, if you think they're going to shame you go anyway, it, they probably will shame you because our medical system is kind of screwy, but it doesn't matter go for you and go, if you feel there is a problem, and you're afraid to go bring someone with you, if, when it's not COVID times, or if you can have someone that support, but don't wait because it's, um, I feel like it's better to, I do feel like, and I felt like this was my mom with her cancer journey and everything. It's better to know what the heck is going on with yourself or who you love that way when it happens.
Speaker 2: (
06:39)
If it happens again, you're like, no, no, no. I know what this is. I know how to, I have a team, get yourself a team that you trust and you can call your team and say, whether it's doctors and support people and say, Hey, my heart's doing that weird thing again. So just don't be alone in the thing. But do you go to the doctor? I hate going to the doctor, but you know, when you've heard that thing about the bathtub full blood, that reminds me of like, when they tell you, if you connected all your neurons or no, your, your nerve Synopsys, they would go around, but wait, no, that CA that's. How is that even? How is that, uh, how does something that fit inside your body that doesn't make any sense? Crazy? I mean, I, I, someone said our intestines are happening.
Speaker 2: (
07:32)
Let's lay them out and find out they did that. They did that in torture times, but easy. So anyway, it was a weird experience. I feel really grateful. I, I, you know, I've changed my diet significantly. We'll see how it, how it works. Like I, I have, I'm just eating a tremendous amount of fish. It's unbelievable. Um, wow. Wow. Okay. That's pretty, that's a huge commitment because my thing with fish is I only ever order it in restaurants. Cause I hate cooking it in my house. They hate the way it smells. Do you have some cool tips, eating fish at home? The fish, yes. The fish you want to get is salmon or tilapia. Smell the least. And also you want to just crank your fan on, but also you want to keep, if you keep the lid on it, it doesn't smell as bad.
Speaker 2: (
08:23)
So I don't bake it. I pan I pan sear it or I, and I have a lid on at all times. It's when it's in the oven or exposed that it like permeates everything. So that, but really, yeah, it just gets kind of, it does get kind of fishy, but it goes away. I, I, uh, I'm a weirdo and burn a tremendous amount of Sage in the house. So, so fishy Sage, but you know, whatever, I wouldn't do it. If it's saving your heart, like it can smell like whatever, whatever. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'm really happy that, cause I think if I were in your position, I would find it really difficult to make so many changes. All of a sudden. Yes. I think it's easier when you don't have children to be on. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. But I am doing something in solidarity with you, which is that I realized that I, since the pandemic have been drinking alcohol every single night, so I stopped drinking alcohol.
Speaker 2: (
09:27)
Yeah. And it's great. Like it's, I'm realizing like, Oh, this was just a terrible habit. One that doesn't negatively impacts your sleep. Um, actually weirdly I think creates more anxiety in a weird way. I don't, I don't really know how that works, but I feel less anxious. That's fantastic. What was the other thing I was noticing? That's really good. Um, how were you, how much were you drinking? Well, I would always have a glass of wine and then something else like before bed, like a whiskey or a, you know, like a spirits. Yeah. And it was, you know, you just talk yourself into like, this is fine. Everybody does this. This is totally fine. Uh, not to mention, like I have enormous family history for addiction, so it was never a smart idea for me to begin with. And, and you know, and as much as I'd like to say, Oh, I'll probably go to a point where I can drink.
Speaker 2: (
10:38)
Occasionally. I'm not S I think what happens to me is that I just it's habits. It's like what? I do, something that I like, it could be eating cookies or drinking alcohol, or not that I would ever do this, but snorting cocaine, if I do it and I like it, then I just want to do it every day. Yeah. I think that that's so right. And then I just might get stuck in routines. I relate to that a hundred percent. And for me, um, since I don't really, I don't drink any, you know, I haven't, I don't really do that, that, but I, but McDonald's is the same thing. So people think, how can you, how can you eat? McDonald's it's so gross. Haven't you seen those haven't you seen those things where they leave the burger and the fries out. I don't care about any of that to me.
Speaker 2: (
11:23)
It's good. It is a treat to be celebrated when you want to celebrate something or when you're in a hurry and you don't have time, you just want cramps something in it is all those things. So I, I, I, and I haven't obviously had that since I've, since I've been in the hospital, but I, um, I think it's delicious. I don't care what people say, filet of fish and people, and people are like, you, you know, and someone's like, well, after a while, it'll be gross. You I'm like, no, it won't, but I, I still won't do it because I know that the thing about McDonald's too is actually the thing that gets you is the sodium. So, so my doctor was like, it's, it's look, it's the, of course it's the fat and carbs and all that crap. But the thing that's really dangerous for your heart with McDonald's is the amount of sodium that's in it and your blood pressure here.
Speaker 2: (
12:12)
So he's like, what they don't tell you is that is the secret things. That'll kill you from these fast food places. People are thinking, Oh, it's bad for you, but why is it bad? Well, it's bad because the amount of sodium in a, in a, uh, like a quarter pounder with cheese is your daily is your intake for two weeks. You're supposed to have yeah. And a quarter pounder. Yeah. So it's, it's, so you'd have to eat zero other salt for two weeks to make, to get it level again. And I'm like, well, that's crap. I can't do that. And he's like, right. So I don't eat at McDonald's and it's because of the sodium. And I'm like, Oh, you're a chair. He's like, no, I just see the effects of people. 22 year olds have had McDonald's every day who have the blood pressure of an 89 year old that has, you know, an 89 year old heart.
Speaker 2: (
13:01)
And I'm like, did you ever watch that? And I, and I know this guy is like problematic or weird, whatever, that guy, Morgan Spurlock. And he did that thing that was so creepo that it's called supersize me. Right. Um, now there's an argument to be made for, like, you shouldn't eat the same thing every day, no matter what it is, unless it's like wheat, grass and salmon, I guess. Uh, but it was profound. He, he, he, he, you could see, it was only 30 days and you could see the way he looked. It was just like doughy and greasy and just pay and just gross. But it tastes at the time it tastes delicious. And you know, when I take comfort in for better or worse, is that the fact that, you know, we are a fast food nation and I am not the only one with this problem makes me feel like he's like, you know, which actually makes me feel better.
Speaker 2: (
14:00)
Cause I'm like, okay. Yeah. He's like, I'm having this conversation that I'm having with you at least 10 times a day with patients. And I'm like, just talk to them about diet and food and the exercise and heart health. He's like, we don't learn about heart health. Nobody knows about heart health. It's just, we should all be on a heart healthy diet. We just aren't, you know, and I, and it made me feel less, um, less alone to know that like, well, clearly, you know, every, everyone is in this boat, you know, and it's just degrees. Yeah. And, and honestly, like you deserve so much credit for breaking a particular cycle, which is that you're w you learned after your father's death, that he was coping in a way that was unhealthy for him. He probably knew that it was unhealthy. He probably worried that it was going to kill him.
Speaker 2: (
14:54)
He probably had shame about admitting that or going to the doctor. So he just suffered in silence, kept the secrets to himself and just died and left you and your sister and your mother, and like a lot to deal with the aftermath. So true. And he was afraid he didn't go to the dentist for 17 years. And then they had to pull all his teeth. I mean, he was that kind of a guy. I can't live like that. Mostly. I just, I mean, I could, but I choose not to cause my, I can't take the worrying. Like he was able to be in denial so much. I mean, he was probably very worried, like you say, but he was able, the worrying wasn't enough to drag his butt to the doctor. Also, my mother was totally, totally unsupportive of him. She was like, I don't care if you don't want to go on it.
Speaker 2: (
15:44)
You know, like that's not right. That's not a good way. And it's you're you made your bed lie in it kind of a thing. So thank gosh, I, I have a partner too. That's like, Nope, let's go to the emergency room. Your heart's freaking out. Let's go. Um, so I don't feel, I don't feel alone, which is good. Um, that's wonderful. I'm, I'm happy. I couldn't be happier that you're here today on the podcast. We have the cat Phillips who, you know, from just a ton of TV shows too many to list here as well as one of my favorite movies called, but I'm a cheerleader with Natasha Leon, which is coming up on its anniversary and have a all new director's cut. Anyway, she's also a human rights advocate and a fire pet rescue angel and an all around lovely human being. So please enjoy our interview with cat Phillips. Congratulations. You survived theater school. I sure did. Yes, we all did. And that's, that's why we're all here. So it's great to see you pauses, right? You do sound exactly the same and I don't think I've spoken to you or seen you since the late nineties and you've been up to a lot you've, uh, right now your work is not acting related. I don't think,
Speaker 3: (
17:21)
Um, or is it no, um, I've been writing poetry and then also, um, I'm a commissioner for human rights, Sonoma County, third district, and a member of the human trafficking task force. Wow. And, um, I've just been really involved in the community. Um, I'm also a fire pet rescue. Uh, Oh, wow. Person. It's been, um, crazy here with the fires, uh, ever since 2017 is when I joined, um, a month after the Tubbs fire, which was, it got up to about four minutes away. And that's the one that took out thousands of homes. And, um, I was on Facebook and I saw this picture come up and it was this woman going down a, a storm drain to get a cat. And I was like, these people need help.
Speaker 2: (
18:35)
Yeah.
Speaker 3: (
18:37)
And so, um, that's when I joined and we've been active in every single, um, fire incident since,
Speaker 2: (
18:45)
Oh, is it dangerous? I mean, what do you put yourself in danger?
Speaker 3: (
18:49)
Sure. Um, during the Kincade fire, we were going to be deputized to go behind the fire line, um, because they were like, if, if we can get in there sooner, we can actually save more animals, you know? And, um, because the hardest part is cats there, um, like a dog, you literally just throw some food down, a dog comes to you and you're like, okay, let's find your home. Right. Cats are like, bye. See ya. And, um, yeah, it was crazy. We found, I mean, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of, of animals, and most of them got returned to their owners.
Speaker 2: (
19:34)
How did you end up at the theater school? I mean, that's a sort of a large question, but I mean, were you an actor as a kid? Did you,
Speaker 3: (
19:44)
Um, I've been acting since I was about nine or 10 and, um, I had already been accepted at several different colleges. Um, one of them was a full ride scholarship to this day. I kicked myself. Yeah. Um, but uh, in high school in Indiana, we had took a trip to Chicago to go to the art museum in my senior year. And as we were driving into the city, I was like, wow, what a beautiful city. And so we had an assignment, I can't remember what the assignment was, but it was something like I had to go study a certain painting and then write a paper on it. So I went and I found the painting. I, I just like took notes real quick. And then I bolted, I, I left and I explore the by myself, um, got lost, got on. My owl was like eight hot dogs. And, um, I just fell in love with Chicago. And so I made it back to the bus just in time to get back to Indianapolis. All my friends were like, where the hell are we? Where are you? I was like, well, my goal, the studio.
Speaker 3: (
21:11)
And, um, so then I just studied, it started studying schools in Chicago for, for acting. And the theater school came up as, as, uh, an amazing school. And so I auditioned and was so surprised that I got in and it was weird because I was one of the very few people from my high school that actually left the state. Wow. And I was like, I'm outta here,
Speaker 2: (
21:44)
Surprising to me because usually you think in cities, I mean, you're from Indianapolis, right.
Speaker 3: (
21:50)
Um, I went to high school there.
Speaker 2: (
21:52)
Okay. You bet you're, you're from a more, a smaller place.
Speaker 3: (
21:57)
Um, I'm army brat. So I was all over. I was actually born in Massachusetts and moved to New Zealand and moved to Germany and then moved to Indiana. Whoa.
Speaker 2: (
22:12)
So did you, do you remember your audition at the theater school? Cause we've been asking, first of all, I want to just say that people have said similar things. Most people say I was shocked. I got in it's interesting and very talented people and I consider you very talented. I remember you as being very, and people have said, I'm shocked. I got in. And so do you remember your audition?
Speaker 3: (
22:35)
Um, yeah, I was just so scared. Um, I remember my mother traveled to Chicago with me and that's when she learned that I, I smoked cigarettes because I was so nervous that I was like, I just, I can't even hide this from you. So, and she was like, give me one. And I just remember, well, as a lot of times when, when I would act, I don't really remember my actual performance. Um, I don't know if you guys have that experience too, where it's just kind of like this blank space and then all of a sudden you're like holding hands and bowing
Speaker 2: (
23:30)
Out of body situation. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (
23:32)
So I, I really don't. I remember just being really nervous, really scared. And then just being like, they're either going to say yes or they're going to say no, so go out there and do your, so
Speaker 2: (
23:48)
Then get starting school there. I mean, we know you were really excited to be living in Chicago, but regarding the program, how did it match up with what you expected it to be?
Speaker 3: (
24:01)
I was overwhelmed. Um, I didn't realize the program was going to be that intense. Um, I felt very alone. Um, you know, acting is a very, um, what do you call it? Everybody's trying to be the best. Everybody's trying to out shine the other person, um, competitive, very competitive. And it was, thank you. Um, I felt for quite a while, like how are we supposed to truly make something beautiful when we're always in competition with each other? That's yeah. You know, because for me the best amazing part about theater is the connection to the other people. That's the brilliance of, of theater, you know, like I remember, uh, yellow boat with the both of you and we, because of the way that we were, especially with the, um, the process of how we got there with alcohol. It, um, it was very natural. It was very firm. It was very, I know that I can lean on you guys and you guys could lean on me. Um, we had trust and that mainly I think in class was kind of missing because I don't know.
Speaker 2: (
25:51)
Perfect. Yeah. That makes perfect sense to me. And how did you deal with that competitiveness? Cause we were talking to people and people do all kinds of things to get through. And I'm just wondering, how did you, how did you manage, how did you get through?
Speaker 3: (
26:05)
Um, I just stayed in my own uniqueness. Um, I realized very early on that I was not in any way, shape or form to be compared to anybody in my class. And that is not a, a boastful thing. It has nothing to do with talent. It was, it was kind of like I had to find my own strength and um, and so I was like, we're, we're all completely different. And so I was, and I just tried to be as supportive as possible to my classmates and um, whether they were supportive of me or not.
Speaker 2: (
26:47)
That's yeah. It's interesting. The whole thing about competition, because that comes up almost to everybody with everybody that we talk to. And I, so like in the rear view, I can say, yes, it was competitive or I felt competitive or, and my version of feeling competitive was always just feeling less than, so it was really just doing it kind of all inside, inside. But do we think that the school itself propagated this whole idea about competition or is it just inherent to this type of work where millions of people want to be an actor and there's only so many paid positions?
Speaker 3: (
27:32)
Um, I, at first I thought it was the school at first. I thought, you know, wow, that was, that was really rough and it felt like bootcamp. And I don't think I've ever been so busy in my life. Um, except now that's weird. I'm really busy right now. Um, but the, the pressure they put on you, um, was exorbitant. And then when I left Chicago and went to Hollywood, I was very thankful for the training that I received because I was like, wow, this is competitive. And you know, and now I've got the six skin and, and I just, I wasn't scared at all. So the training that I received from the school was exactly what I needed because Hollywood is like, Oh my God, like swimming with sharks. It's crazy. You know, you could walk into an audition and see a friend of yours and be like, Hey, what's up? Never like, don't talk to me. I'm like, okay, we'll talk later. I guess, are you up for the same part as me? I'm like, Oh, break a leg.
Speaker 2: (
29:17)
I bet that gave you a big, I bet your attitude about it gave you a competitive edge, ironically, you know what I mean? You're, you're, you're sort of refusal to participate in the, uh, you know, cause what it ends up being at that level at the entry level, let's say with the competition is it ends up being like something that cannibalizes itself and doesn't, doesn't really propel anybody to the next.
Speaker 4: (
29:42)
But I imagine your approach probably did, uh, propel you.
Speaker 3: (
29:46)
Um, I, I don't know. I always just try to be as supportive as possible because I mean, it doesn't matter. We're all still trying to get to the same goal and if I don't get it and I hope you get it,
Speaker 2: (
30:03)
That's something that I remember about you is actually your, the attitude that you had, um, from my perception was one of common good and, and kindness and, um, yeah. And, and, and wanting the best for people. And I'm wondering, where do you think that came from?
Speaker 3: (
30:27)
Uh, probably the way I grew up. Um, my dad used to always say like, when me and my siblings were fighting, he'd be like, Hey, stop it. Look at, look at each other. This is what, this is who you are. This is who you are. This is what you have. This is all you have. And so wherever I am in life, whoever's around me. I feel the same feel the same way. Like right now at this moment, this is what you have. This is all you have. Like, it's like living in the now, you know what I mean? Like I see, I see life as a, just one giant improv show. And so, you know, it's, it's always about saying yes and it's always about being there and supporting and helping. And if, you know, if I don't get the funniest line in, can I actually lead it up and let you get it? Yeah, because maybe tomorrow I'll get the funny line who cares. Right.
Speaker 4: (
31:41)
A rising tide raises all ships. So did you go to LA right after you graduated?
Speaker 3: (
31:47)
No, I was in Chicago for a couple of years. Um, I did a lot of theater. Um, I got my first movie there. Um, and that was a hilarious, hilarious audition. Um, immature cheerleader though. It was for payback. Oh, Oh, that's right. With Mel
Speaker 4: (
32:11)
Gibson. Yeah. Yeah. Very little
Speaker 3: (
32:13)
Role. But, but it was with Mel and the audition was hilarious because it was Jane alderman. And, uh, so I had, I had like six callbacks for, I mean this big of a role and I was like this
Speaker 3: (
32:37)
And I go in for the final callback and Jane's like, well, Kat it's between you and one other person. And I'm like, Jane, don't, you have to say that, you know, I wasn't nervous now I'm nervous. She was like, just remember what I've taught. And I'm like, no, I can't remember anything. I didn't even remember my lines. She get up there, she's got the video, literally a video camera. And she's like, uh, when you slate, can you, can you please also add in how tall you are? And I'm like, sure. And I'm like, hello. My name is Katrina, Phillips slate. And as I'm turning around, I'm like, and I am, and it occurred to me why she asked me how tall I was because Mel Gibson's short. And I went, I am four foot nine and I bet my knees and James like Katrina, stop it.
Speaker 3: (
33:50)
And I'm like, stop what? And she's like, Katrina, stand up. I'm like, I'm standing. Can we please just get along with this? And she was like, she was like, Katrina, you're embarrassing me. And you're embarrassing yourself. I'm like, I'm not embarrassed. So I don't know what you're talking about. Can we please be professional and just keep going? And she was like, fine action. And so would you the same? And I'm, I'm literally like squatting and, uh, we, we end the scene and she turns off the camera and she tells me, she's like, I can't believe that you just did that. You just blew it, blew it. And I was like, what? And she goes, do you know, who's getting the final, uh, answer who gives the final answer on every role? What, who Mel Gibson? And I was like, Oh, she was like, he's going to see this.
Speaker 3: (
34:51)
And I was like, should we go again? She goes, no goodbye. I'm going to call your agent. And I was like, that's like, I'm going to call your dad. And my agent got called and I got chewed out. And I remember going to SBL and being like, guys, I messed up. And I told everyone that I worked with what happened. And they were like, here's a shot. And then all of a sudden, my pager goes off. It's my agent, my pager, a beeper. And, uh, and I, I call and they're like, we're sorry, we yelled at you. And you got the part. And so I had to meet him and I, I was just like, hello, Mr. Gibson. Hello. And he was like, where are you bending down? I was like, I was like, what do I do?
Speaker 4: (
36:00)
Because you're quite tall. You're, you're like five 10 or something
Speaker 3: (
36:03)
Like five, nine. Yeah. And, uh, it was really funny because I was the bank teller and they had me in a ditch and him on an Apple box,
Speaker 5: (
36:16)
Of course, these things that you can solve. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: (
36:20)
And so we would be doing the scene and, and he was he's really, he was really flat on set and we would just be joking around. And like, for that little tiny scene, it took eight hours because he just kept joking around. And then like, when they'd say like, okay, uh, let's take five minutes, a little break. He'd be like, Hey, I'm going to go outside. And then I'd be like, sure. And so we'd be walking, he's on one side of the, the bank thing and I'm on the other. And so he's like up here, I'm down here. And then as we're walking, it just slowly went like this.
Speaker 5: (
37:02)
That's a great story.
Speaker 4: (
37:04)
That's hilarious. I, I, you're the first person to, um, say something like that about Jane alderman. And yeah, I'm so happy to hear it because I, I hated Jane alderman, may she rest in peace? And I, uh, felt, uh, you know, very alone in that everybody else seemed to really love her, but she had a way, I mean, talk about competition. She was competing with all of us in this. It was so bizarre. I mean, since her I've experienced casting directors to be, they are your champions. They want you to do well. They want you to make the job of casting this role easier. Um, whereas I felt like Jane, if she didn't personally, like you, she really wanted you to fail.
Speaker 3: (
37:54)
It was, yeah. They were, there were times, especially in that class where I just kind of, I don't know. I got this a lot though in different classes with different teachers of them wanting to make me something that I wasn't, and I really just wouldn't stand for it. And, um, I remember once in Shakespeare class, they're like, I can't remember her name, but teacher Susan Lee. No, not Susan.
Speaker 2: (
38:38)
The red-headed one Trudy Kessler, not Trudy it's. I know who you're talking about. Chris, Christine, Christina Derry.
Speaker 3: (
38:48)
Um, yes, she, she was like, you're gonna your, for your final, your final, the monologue you're doing is Juliet. And I was like, when would I ever be auditioning for Juliet? That's not me. And she was like, you need to, you need to find it in you. And I'm like, I would never get even cast as Juliet. I wouldn't even audition for Juliet. I would just wouldn't. And she was like, well, that's your final. And I was like, going out of my mind, I was like, how am I going to even do this? And so then she was like, and you have to wear a skirt and you have to, I was like, I don't do that. You know? And so I, I got the skirt that looked kind of like, um, camouflage and I wore combat boots.
Speaker 2: (
39:52)
I think I remember this, I think I do too.
Speaker 3: (
39:55)
And a tank top. And I was like, I was like, I was like the busiest Juliet in the world. I was like, Romeo, Romeo, what?
Speaker 2: (
40:12)
No.
Speaker 3: (
40:16)
And I look over and like, Christina, there's just like in the corner and this is the final. So like, all the professors are right there and, uh, yeah.
Speaker 2: (
40:29)
Oh, yes. We had to do our finals in front of everybody. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (
40:34)
Yes. Don Elko was like,
Speaker 2: (
40:42)
He'll be doing in front of each other too. Or was it just the teacher? Oh my gosh. I remember John Jenkins had a, like a
Speaker 3: (
40:50)
Don Jenkins. Loved it. He was like,
Speaker 2: (
40:57)
He had like a code, how he took notes, because if you were sitting next to him, he, you know, so he had this certain way that he took notes where you couldn't read what he was saying until this moment. I completely forgot about doing finals and in front of the faculty. And was it that we always had to do a scene on a monologue? Or we had showcased, we had like a secret.
Speaker 3: (
41:20)
Yeah, we had, sometimes it was scenes. Sometimes it was monologues. Um, and I know Christine wanted to fail me on that one. And I think that, uh, other faculty members were like, well, I thought that was very ingenious. No, no. As soon as you can feel me. And, um, but she was, she was quite upset with me, but I liked that. I was like, well, you're going to make me do Juliet. This is my Juliet. Yep.
Speaker 4: (
41:54)
Yeah, no, that was, I mean, and another thing that's always been true about using you've always been very self-possessed and that comes up a lot in this podcast too. Like how, how the, how the school itself dealt with people who already knew themselves before they came into the school because a boss and I both feel that we didn't know ourselves at all until way, way, way after graduating. And that, that, um, quality in us worked for them because they liked supplicants. Um, and, but, but it didn't help us, you know, ultimately what wasn't, wasn't very helpful to us.
Speaker 3: (
42:39)
That's interesting that you say that because what I remember of you too is especially you, Jen, uh, I mean, you would walk into a room and just be like, yeah, like you were like, do this and Gina, you were always like, I know what I'm doing. Wow. That's how I saw you guys. I thought you guys were very, very powerful people, which you are, Oh,
Speaker 4: (
43:16)
It could be that you are a person who just sees right through to the middle of somebody, you know, whereas I think, um, and acting is not, not really about that. It's not really seeing right through to the middle of somebody. It's more absurd, you know, doing what what's being observable on the outside. Um, so yeah, maybe that's one of your special,
Speaker 2: (
43:40)
I think that's your super power. I think you're able to see past the weirdness of the outside and to what is really happening with the person, which makes sense, based on the work you do now, and with both humans and animals, um, it's sort of seeing the essence of people and believing the, sort of the core goodness of them or the core power that they have, you know, the power inside that they have because yeah, yeah. That, that's your superpower, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (
44:11)
Oh, wait. I used to work with, um, homeless teenagers, um, as a counselor and even with them, they you're, I'm talking like kids that have been living on the street five years, you know, um, been foster homes and abused and all this. And I think what I really loved about that job was to, was exactly that. So to find that peace inside of them, that was so brilliantly them and just bring that out and let them have something to shine because they, they didn't believe that they had anything. And I'm like, and it was like my competition with myself. Like, no, you're going to find it in every single one. Wow. And, um, even the ones that you don't like,
Speaker 4: (
45:15)
It was very hard to do.
Speaker 3: (
45:17)
And I was like, no, I will find the positive in you. And I try to do that with, with everyone is like, everyone's got something very, very special. And so if I can concentrate on what's special and beautiful and unique about you, then I can't help it. Like you.
Speaker 4: (
45:37)
Yeah. I think I got you derailed viewer when you, because when you told the Mel Gibson story, I think you were going to tell us that was your first movie. That was your first experience. That, is that what led you to LA or how did that work?
Speaker 3: (
45:53)
Yep. Um, well I did that and then, um, I had a breakup relationship breakup and, um, I just felt like it was, it was time to give it a shot because, um, I got scared when we did our showcase in LA, um, because I did get a lot of calls and, and then someone, someone made a very racist remark, um, someone in my class and, uh, it was, uh, I won't say any names, but she hadn't gotten any calls. And so like, we were all pitched in for a rental car and we were helping each other, you know, like, no, I'll drive you here and this and that and this and that. And I was going out a lot and she got very upset and she said, well, the only reason that she's getting so many calls is the same reason that she never got any warnings in school cause she's black.
Speaker 3: (
47:09)
And I was like, okay. And then I got an offer that they said, we want to write you into this show. You're going to play the leads best friend. I was like, the part's not even, they're like, no we're writing you in. You don't have to audition. You don't have to do anything. I was like, well, what about what I really? And they were like, Nope, we're going to get you an apartment. And um, you know, give us all your contact information in Chicago. We'll have everything packed up for you and moved out. And I was just like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. And then the part of me that is not secure, made up a reason in my head to not take it. Totally. I was like, that's a stupid show and it's not going to last very long. Well, they went on for nine seasons. Again, another reason why, you know, when you have those things that you think back on and you're like, wow.
Speaker 4: (
48:26)
Yes, yes I do.
Speaker 3: (
48:29)
Yeah. So I did that.
Speaker 4: (
48:32)
Would you have wanted to be on the show? I mean, did, did you really think it was stupid or yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (
48:39)
I did think it was stupid. You know, that's not, that's not made up. I did think it was stupid. And so I look back on it and I either have days where I just want to kick myself, but then I also have other times when I look back on it and I'm really proud of myself because I don't think I would have been happy,
Speaker 4: (
49:05)
But you did do a lot of TV. Right. And they, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know that you were a serious regular for nine years on anything, but you did, I've done a lot of, a lot of television. Do you still?
Speaker 3: (
49:20)
No. No. I got really tired of television. Um, it's so bland, like in my opinion, um, it's all about, you know, hitting your Mark and finding your light and literally like a piece of tape down on the floor. And they're more concerned about that piece of tape then if you can actually act and, um, it's mainly about what something looks like versus what can you really bring to the script? Um, and again, it's so like cookie cutter, it has to be done the same way every single time that it dah, dah, dah. And, um, there's no, I just felt like there's not life in it. Um, much prefer the stage.
Speaker 4: (
50:23)
Have you done theater in the, since since theater?
Speaker 3: (
50:29)
Yeah, we, um,
Speaker 5: (
50:33)
Okay.
Speaker 3: (
50:34)
I did a lot of theater in Chicago and then I did a lot of theater in LA. Um, I did work at the hot house with app Callie and Rob Adler. And, um, I don't know what that is. What's the hot house the hot house was, or is, I don't know if it's still running. Probably no, it's still running. Um, so I've colleague actually, David F Collie flew out to Los Angeles. He moved to Los Angeles and he started an improv school called the hot house. And, um, I know Rob was one of the instructors. There was about five different levels. And he had me in there. He had me in there as a mole because he was like, I can't stand Los Angeles actors in their ego. And he was like, I need someone to go into the classes.
Speaker 3: (
51:37)
Like you're like a new student. And when I say something like, okay, I need somebody to get up there and be a German giraffe, get, do, go up there and do it. And I was like, so you want me to be your dancing monkey? And he was like, I just need somebody to get in there and show people like, this is not about what you look like. This is not about, you know, he's like, I want, I want these actors to be better. And that's why he started the hothouse because in the Hollywood, as I said, that machine is about what you look like. And it's like, this was fun. And, um, I ended up doing like, at the end of your, your class, like your graduation, you get to do, uh, I think it was like two weekends of shows and, uh, the group that I ended up sticking with, um, I think we went for a year and a half.
Speaker 3: (
52:48)
Wow. And it was, it was so much fun, so much fun. Um, I think that, that was by far, probably one of my favorite shows I've ever done. And it was all just the kind of improv that we learned at school, all organic, you know? And, um, we would just have the, the craziest times it was, it was awesome. And the, um, I think there was one show where we did the whole thing in jibberish and opera. Oh my God. And none of this was thought up beforehand. It just happened. And people were like, when you were singing about your dying grandmother and I'm like, I guess, okay, you can interpret whatever, you know, it was cheaper.
Speaker 2: (
53:50)
That's great. I have to ask you about, um, but I'm a cheerleader. I love that movie. And I just wanted to hear about your experience working.
Speaker 3: (
54:00)
Oh wow. Thank you. It's um, it was a lot of fun and we're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary, 20th year anniversary. And, um, it's going to be interesting to watch because they're putting in deleted scenes. Wow. Wait,
Speaker 2: (
54:20)
So this is something that other people can see.
Speaker 3: (
54:23)
Oh yeah. They're, they're coming out with a director's cut for that. That's awesome. So I was all excited and I was like telling my parents, I was like, they're coming out with the new version. And then they were like, Ooh, we want to see it. And I've thought about it. I was like, Oh wait. I know some of these deleted scenes that's the reason they were taken out was because they tried to give us a rated X. Oh, the sex scenes that got cut out. Not just that. So, um, so I'm, I'm going to be really interested to see it. And it's really funny because a group of my rescue friends are like, I think we should have a viewing party. And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe you should watch it on your own and then not talk to me for a little while, but that's still
Speaker 2: (
55:30)
To have your youth, you know, captured for eternity. I'm, I'm envious of people who did film and their youth, because then you, you always have a reference point. I mean, one of the things that we're finding is that we forget so much about this time period. And one of the amazing things about talking to people is different. People have different little pieces of the puzzle and it's helped us reconstruct a lot of, because when we first started talking about this, basically we didn't remember anything about anything we remembered like this teacher and that play and graduating case. And that was kind of it still we're kind of,
Speaker 3: (
56:14)
You don't know. Yeah. I have vague memories of being in that, in the Merle reskin
Speaker 2: (
56:20)
The whole, but it was like a lot, it was like the, it wasn't just the theater school anyway. Yes. But we're getting talking to you like hearing that. Oh yes. We had to do it in front of teachers. We had to do our Shakespeare monologues. I remember in costume and Oh, so it's been so good to, to hear that you're providing answers for us. Yeah. You're filling in the blanks.
Speaker 3: (
56:44)
So a lot about school. Um, a lot. I remember freezing my off. Um, and half of those classrooms, cause there was no heat. I remember, um, you know, movement to music. I used to call it spontaneous sex on sweaty mats.
Speaker 2: (
57:06)
Right.
Speaker 3: (
57:09)
I remember teachers that hated me and we're not in any way, shape or form afraid to show it. Um, I remember actually kind of wrestling one of them and flipping it, but like literally yeah.
Speaker 2: (
57:32)
In what context
Speaker 3: (
57:34)
And movement to music. Oh, Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Movement to music with teachers. Well, he joined in,
Speaker 2: (
57:45)
Was it, I know who it was
Speaker 3: (
57:47)
And he came after me like this and got on top of me. And I was like, I remember cause I, he was like pinning me down. And I, I remember looking over and the whole class was like, I remember KB Kiernan's face. She was like, Oh no, don't do that to Kat. And I just flipped SAS.
Speaker 2: (
58:15)
Wow. That's amazing. What are some of the other shows that you remember fondly
Speaker 3: (
58:27)
There's Marisol the love, the yellow boat that was so much fun. Um, and you guys were so supportive. Cause I remember my grandmother died and I was like, Oh wow. This is where the phrase, the show must go on. Really kicks into play. And you guys were just like, we got you and we're going to get through this. And so thank you again. And yeah, that was a good experience. All about. Yeah. Um, what other places did I do? The women you were in the women? Oh yes. I was in the women. That was hilarious. Like I was like, I was always like, Oh, I can't believe I have to the little short shorts that they made me wear as the physical fitness instructor. I was like, Oh my God. Um, yeah, the women, um, I can't remember. Okay. Now I'm losing my
Speaker 2: (
59:41)
That's. Okay. It happens. I'm telling you, it happens. We're telling you, it happens. People are like once, once the door opens and people get into this conversation, it becomes this weird thing of remembering, not remembering things, memories coming in and out. It's like this strange dance that we've in store too, you know? So you had teachers who didn't appreciate you let's say, but then did you also have champions?
Speaker 3: (
01:00:11)
Yes, definitely. Um, Phyllis is like, I just feel like she's somehow related to me. Um, it was amazing to have a teacher of color, um, in a very white school. Um, there was, I remember Dorcas Johnson. Um, I don't know if you guys ever met Dorcas. Um, sorry. I get sad every time I talked to her about her cause, um, but she did, uh, a play. She, um, and it was all done in poetry, different poets that she had masterminded different poems and put them together in a certain way that it made a play and it was for black history. Um, and it was all the black students in the school, like all six of us. And Phyllis actually was the one who, because I was a freshman at the time, so I wasn't supposed to be in any place. And um, she was like, no, it's, it's important for a few do this.
Speaker 3: (
01:01:44)
And so I got to perform with some really amazing people and Phyllis was, um, extremely supportive and um, and strangely enough, David [inaudible] loved me. Yes. I remember that. And he was a hard-ass on me. The meanest thing he ever said to me was, uh, in class I had forgotten about a homework assignment. And so he called on me to get up and do the assignment and I just made it up on the spot and he, he went like this, stop the was that. And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, sit down, don't ever do that again. And I was like, okay. And so I was like, Oh, he's gonna, he's gonna ring me. Right. So I sat down in his office and he's like going through papers, writing notes and I'm sitting there and I'm like, and he goes, you're fine. Get out. And I was like, wow. Okay. I was like, what is that to me? Yeah.
Speaker 4: (
01:03:17)
Was his jam. He really liked manipulating people into having extreme, emotional experience
Speaker 3: (
01:03:25)
A little bit, just a little bit.
Speaker 4: (
01:03:28)
But you and the end, it was a positive. I mean he,
Speaker 3: (
01:03:32)
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then I got to work with him in LA and that was great. So many times like somebody will say, Oh, have you seen this TV show? It's so great. And they sh they put it on for me. Cause I don't have a TV. You put it on for me. And I'm like, Oh, that's my friend. Oh, that's my friend too. Oh, I worked with that person and it it's so cool too. I just feel so proud of everyone. Like I don't even, it doesn't matter if you're not acting anymore. Right. I love to see your lives.
Speaker 4: (
01:04:09)
I have a funny story to tell, uh, my kids make fun of me because I'm always, like I went to college with that person. I went to college with that person and we were watching the super bowl. And I had just seen somebody in a commercial that I don't remember now who it was. And, and then the commercial changed and my son said, did you go to school with him too? And it was John Hogan acre doing the bare dilly dilly actually. Yes,
Speaker 3: (
01:04:45)
Actually. Yes, yes I did. Yes I did. Yeah. There was one time that I started crying actually because, uh, somebody who's like never seen the show heroes and I was like, no, they're like, Oh, I think you would love that show. So we're watching it. And then the episode comes on where there was like three or four people that I knew in the same episode. And I was just like,
Speaker 4: (
01:05:11)
Leonard, Leonard Roberts is in that show. Right.
Speaker 3: (
01:05:16)
And, uh, Kim was in it, um, like all these people that I knew. And I was just, I mean, literally I, I felt like I wanted to jump into the TV and just play with them. And that was like, you know, it's like, um, I don't know. It made me really miss acting. And I don't know, but I mean, I guess we're always acting so
Speaker 1: (
01:05:43)
In a way, yeah. I survived theater school,
Speaker 3: (
01:05:57)
Undeniable in production, Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina [inaudible] are the co-hosts this episode was
Speaker 1: (
01:06:03)
Produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina. [inaudible]
Speaker 3: (
01:06:06)
Follow us on Instagram at undeniable writers or on Twitter.
Speaker 1: (
01:06:11)
W R I T Y that's undeniable. Right without the [inaudible]. Thanks.