Alright, we're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. Brought to you by Sky's magazine and RCAF today. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. With me today is my good friend from flight training days, Sky Simpson. Sky, welcome to the show and thanks so much for being here.
Thanks for having me, Brian.
Before we start, let's go over Sky's bio. Sky graduated from flight training in 2012 and was posted to four three six transport squadron in Trenton, Ontario, flying the CC 130 J super Hercules. While awaiting training on that aircraft, she flew the B 200 Super King Air as VIP domestic transport. After completing her training in 2014 on the CC 130 J, she filled subsequent roles as an operational First Officer, aircraft Commander, instructor, pilot, instrument check pilot, chief check Pilot, and finally as Chief of Air Crew Training. During that time, sky conducted domestic deployments, flew in support of several international operations and deployed to Op, impact Kuwait, Iraq as an aircraft commander in 2018, she was posted to four two six transport training squadron in 2021 as the Deputy Commanding Officer and as of summer 2023 is posted to the Air staff in Ottawa and Air Force plans focusing on capability based planning. So sky, where did aviation start for you?
So it was completely by accident. I was in university taking engineering when I was 17 and I wanted a summer job. So I just went to a job fair and started talking to some folks in uniform about the Army Reserves. And it sounded like a really cool opportunity for a summer job. So I ended up joining the Army Reserves in Thunder Bay as an EMI officer, electrical, mechanical engineering officer, and I did a year of that. I thought it was amazing. I had so much fun. So the following year, I went to the recruiting center and said, sign me up guys, I'm good to do this as a career. And at the time I really just wanted to be a combat engineer because they got to play with explosives and do all that fun stuff. So I put down my two choices on my application to the Reg Force as combat engineer, and then second choice was EMI. And then I handed it in and the woman working there looks up at me and she says, well, I can't accept this because you need three choices and you only have two. So she said, here's this binder, just flip through, pick a job and put um, it in and then we can accept and process your application. I'm m like, okay, cool. So flip it, flip pilot, yeah, whatever. Put it down and hand it back. And then I got a call from her about a week later and said, okay, your flights are booked for Trenton for your cruise selection. And I was like, Where's Trenton? I don't want to be a pilot. And she's like, well, you put it down, so we have to send you on air cruise selection. So anyway, I went and I passed, and that was 17 years ago, so.
It was really an afterthought. It was basically because you had to put down a third choice.
Yeah, totally. I had no desire to be a pilot, but here we are.
You had nothing leading up to that, where you were going to like, air shows or you were in air cadets or anything like that?
No, nothing at all. I mean, I had been to a couple of air shows, but I never, uh, really considered it being, uh, a path that I would take. I had, uh, a vision in my mind of where I would be going, and it was just so tangent to that, that yeah, I didn't really think about it, but at the time when I got the offer, I said, okay, whatever, well, let's just go with it and see where it goes. And I was 18 and just kind of rolling with things, so it sounded cool on paper, so I figured to go with it. And like I said, that was a while ago now. It worked out. It was amazing how much my life depended on that 20 seconds.
At what point did you start getting serious about flying? Like, at what point did you go from like, well, I'll go to air cruise selection because I have to, to I'm going to make this my career.
So I remember kind of being in for a real culture shock, if I can call it that, when I started the first couple of weeks in Portage, because they give you that study package, or at least they did back then. This was in 2009 when I did Phase One, where it talks about the very basics of flying, like what is lift, what is drag, and I remember reading it and going, okay, this is real now, this is a real thing. But yeah, it wasn't really until I was physically on course that I was in the mindset of, okay, this is really happening. I'm going to be a pilot now. Or at least I'm going to give her a go and see if I'm successful.
That's so funny to think that this all started out as a bid to become a combat engineer and because your recruiter made you put down a third choice. Here we are.
Yeah, pretty wild.
So once you were in, you mentioned being on Phase One. How did you find your flight training experience in the forces overall?
Uh, it was such a fun time. I, um, think that I showed up with a pretty good attitude and then I was fortunate enough to be surrounded by just such good people. I mean, really had very few folks on the courses that were kind of running at the same time as mine that I, uh, didn't really get along with. I mean, I went in with like a really kind of social attitude, and I found that to pay off, it was kind of like being in high school where everybody has the same interests and everybody's kind of like the same personality and everyone's there for a good time, but also really serious about schoolwork. Yeah, it was frustrating at times. I mean, it was definitely challenging. There was a tremendous amount of new information coming at you every day, and it really prompted a lot of self reflection. And given the average age, I think at least when I went through it was probably everybody was, uh, early 20s, like 20 to 23, I would say. I think it prompted a level of self reflection that wouldn't necessarily normally naturally happen in your life until you're a little bit older. So I think that was really cool in that it kind of develops you more as an emotional adult as well. Going through the training system. It challenged me in ways where I had to really hone my ability to focus hyper focus on taking in information, effectively learning not just reading things and then kind of dumping them, but really taking them in, processing them, and then filing them in whatever part of my brain. I'm going to need them next time. So I feel like it was all in all, kind of like a growth experience. I don't want to say coming of age, but really growing up in a short amount of time yeah, you're taking.
A lot more personal responsibility and it's pretty much all up to you, right? Sink or swim.
Absolutely. And the other thing is kind of funny realizing that this is how I described it at the time. You're going to school every day and somebody's going to tell you in some way how you sucked that day at something. So you just have to kind of learn to take that and do something positive with it. Because if you can't sit there and listen to everyone or at least an instructor telling you how you sucked that day and then be better the next day, then you're not going to do very well. And then eventually they tell you that you suck less and less. But it's never a perfect flight. At the end of the day, did.
You ever have a big flight that comes to mind that just went really bad? It doesn't matter if you failed or not, but something that sticks in your mind is a flight that really threw you off, that you had to kind of overcome.
So I remember in the form phase of phase two, I was struggling with, it just made me really anxious being that close to another aircraft.
Like flying in formation?
Yeah, formation flying. So I remember I went up on a flight with my instructor and he suggested to me in the middle of that flight because he could tell that he could tell that I was anxious because he says, simpson, you're breathing like a horse up there. What's going on? I'm just trying to relax. And he's, uh, like, you know what helps me? Just sing a song. So I started singing on the intercom ah alouetta Jean Dialloetta, uh, and I don't know if he appreciated it or not because he's a Franco guy, but he made me feel a lot better. And at that point, I realized, like, I really have to figure out a way where I can just calm myself down in the middle of a flight. That's what I took from that flight is this is something that I have to work on. Just some sort of little thing like a trigger or to each their own. You figure out what your own thing is. Like, take a couple of breaths or whatever is a standard.
But what was yours?
It wasn't singing, because now that I fly a crew, aircraft probably drive everybody nuts. But this is, uh, my secret hack, I guess, is I never go anywhere on any flight without a pack of gum in my pocket. And every single time throughout my career that something's been really spicy or it's gotten really, uh, interesting in flight, I just take a second and grab a piece of gum and chew my worries away. And then it, uh, helps me really focus on the situation, uh, at hand. I'll swear to I'll do that till I die, for sure.
I like that. That's a new one for me, but that's great. So once you got through your flight training and you got selected, found out you're going on the J model, how did that feel? Was that what you wanted to fly?
It was awesome. I was so excited because, uh, I spent about a year in 2010, 2011 at Four Three Six Squadron. So I had some experience already with exposure to taxable airlift, kind of what the J and at that point, the H still at Four Three Six was doing. So I was really interested in the mission set, but I was still, while I was a Moose Jaw before selection, I was really torn between jets and multi mhm. And then I remember I was talking to my mom towards the end of phase two, like, nearing selection, and I was fortunate enough to be doing pretty good on course. So I kind of had the option to go either way. And I realized when I was talking to her, I was like, I think I just want to go jet. So I could say I'm a jet pilot and that's the wrong way to make decisions.
Totally. Especially the wrong reason to go jets.
Exactly. Yeah, that's a real quick way to set yourself up for huge burning failure, uh, on the course. So once I realized the why, I was like, okay, I'm going to set myself up for multi. I think just what I was looking for as far as lifestyle and the experiences that I really wanted to set myself up for. It really fit the bill. And then once I got selected multi, I was just hyper focused on getting back to Four Three Six and the J and that community. And I felt like since I had been there for an entire year, I had already built those relationships and it was almost like kind of coming back to a family.
That's awesome.
After I finished flight training and uh, yeah, it worked out so well, I was really, really lucky.
Yeah, that sounds great. To come back to people you knew and a place you'd already established working relationships and had lived for a while. Like coming home a little bit.
Yeah, totally. I mean, it takes the fear factor out of it a little bit, right? There's a lot of new things, there's a lot of change that's happening at that point in your career and in your life. Uh, so to have even an ounce of that familiarity, it really kind of eases the transition.
Yeah, no doubt. So while you were in Trenton waiting for training, you flew for the multi engine utility flight known as Muff Flight. How did that come about?
So just one of the connections that I had made at Four Three Six while I was there on OJT, he ended up running the Muff Flight and I gave him a shout, letting him know that I was posted back to Trenton and then he immediately wanted to pick me up for that. Just at the time, the wait for the Otu on the J, it was going to be like a year plus. It's just like a perfect stepping stone for new first officers or new ingrads.
What a great opportunity.
Well, that I think, was one of the main pushes for standing up that capability because at the time and it kind of goes up and down as you know, with the training system. But at the time there were several fleets in Trenton that were experiencing massive delays when getting guys from their wings course to their OTUs. And as, uh, you know, the skill fade is so real and magnified that early in your career. So it was hugely beneficial to get new ing grads on this platform. You keep the hands and feet for sure, but it gets you in the books again. You tighten up your RT, like simple things like that for the listeners.
RT stands for Radio Telephony, which is a shorthand way of referring to speaking and listening on the radio, which is a critical skill for pilots.
You learn the local, uh, flying procedures as well. So by the time I got to the Otu, there was so much less to put actual brain power into.
It gives you a chance to pick up some airmanship and to get some real world experience and really deal with ATC and flight planning outside the bubble that you've done in just central canada and like one trip to the States.
Yes, exactly. We flew well, I wouldn't say all over Canada, because the range wasn't tremendously good on that aircraft. I think the farthest we went out to was Alberta and on the East Coast and did some stuff in the States too. So you were exposed more to different, like, the FAA flight procedures and stuff like that. So it was really awesome. Plus, it was VIP transport, so, I mean, you just get to chat with generals and shoot the, uh breeds. Yeah, with some important people. And actually, I meant to tell you this. My first flight on the Muff, we're picking somebody up in Winnipeg and then flying to Ottawa or something like that. And it turned out to be, um, General Natinschuk while he was CDs. So I was flying the CDs on my first mission ever as a winged pilot. And the weather was total garbage in Ottawa to the point where the AC that I was flying with briefed me on what a continue call was. I'm like, okay, this sounds fun. So anyway, we got into Ottawa and sure enough, had to use a continue call. It was like, visible at plus or minus one. Ah hundred and 50ft, I guess, for argument's sake. So, anyway, we rolled into the FBO and General Natinship came up and he puts his huge hand on my shoulder and he goes, Good job, sky. And then he takes me out of the cock, out of the cockpit and shakes my hand on the tarmac and gives me a coin, the CDs coin for my first trip. I thought that was pretty awesome. I was pretty chuffed after that.
I remember that happening for you. Actually. I still remember you posted about it on Facebook. And I remember that very clearly. And I was 99% sure you would tell that story. And I'm glad you did, because it's such a good one.
Well, it was kind of funny too, because after that point in my career, I just assumed that flights to minimums was a normal and frequent occurrence. And I don't think I had to use a continue call again for like another two and a half years.
Can you explain for the audience what a continue call is?
Sure thing. So, when you're flying, uh, an approach in weather, so you're relying on your instruments to come in and land. You have minimum altitudes that you need to make decisions by. So if you hit that minimum altitude and you can't see the runway or the runway environment, you have to initiate a go around. So you have to get away from the ground as soon as possible because you're really close to it. But a continue call allows you one extra potato to kind of assess your situation. So if you reach minimums, then you can tell the other pilot, continue. If you have some cues of the runway environment so you can kind of see some lights or you can see the ground, but not necessarily the runway. So you can say continue. Just give me another second, and then I'll figure out if this is safe or not. And then you either land or you, uh, initiate a go around.
Yeah, and I think the criteria for when you can call a continue is usually laid out in your standard maneuver manual or SMM, right?
Yeah, you got it.
So let's bounce back to the J model. Can you tell us what exactly the J model does? Our listeners will remember that we've done an episode on the C 17. How does the role of the J model differ from that?
So the J model takes stuff or people from one place to another in various different ways. So on paper, it's a tactical airlifter. But we, in practice, do tactical and strategic airlift, and then we deliver stuff in different ways. So we either do air land, where we fly to a place, land offload it in various different ways, and then take off again, or we can do air drop. So any cargo or people in the back will be rigged up with chutes, and then we'll, uh, fly to a point in space, open up the back, and kick everybody out. So that's kind of the very general purpose of this aircraft. But in practice, we do both tactical and strategic. So when I say that, tactical would be typically intra theater airlift. So, for example, if you're in Afghanistan, then it would go from main, uh, operating base to all the smaller forward operating bases within that theater of operations, whereas a strategic airlifter would be more along the lines of take all that stuff from Canada and then fly it to an international theater of operations.
Okay, so theoretically, that would be the difference between you guys and a C 17 as well. On paper, like you said, they would handle more of the strategic and you would do more of the tactical.
Yeah, I mean, when it comes down to the aircraft capabilities, of course, just by virtue of size, the C 17 payload is larger and the range is greater. But if we're talking about, like, an economy of use, the C 17 costs were to operate. So you'll hear a lot about a hub and spoke kind of set up where you would get a strategic airlifter like the C 17 to fly a bunch of stuff from whatever your starting point is into theater. And then a smaller platform like the J would then distribute it to the smaller outward bases or Fobs.
So you would picture basically that the place where the C 17 goes is the hub of, like, a wagon wheel. And then the spokes leading out from there are all the spots where the J model would take, in theory, take the cargo to.
Exactly. But the way Canada operates is pretty interchangeable. Our fleet sizes are so relatively small to compared to the US, for example, they've got, I think, like 130 J models, and they've got even more C, think it's somewhere around 150, whereas we've got 17 J's and five C 17s. So the way we employ them is just whatever makes sense at the time for whatever tasking comes up. I, uh, would say that they do a lot of overlap, but they're both pretty impressive aircraft in their own rights. That's kind of how it's different when Canada operates them. But as far as what those two aircraft can physically do, as far as airlift goes, they're very similar. However, I will say this, I'm pretty sure the C 17 in Canada does not do AirDrop right now.
Oh, interesting.
So that's, I guess, one advantage that we have on the J. I'm, um.
Sensing some friendly competition between no.
Yeah. All in the same team, right, Brian?
Yeah, for sure. Can you take me through a normal day for a pilot at four, three, six quadrant? Let's say it's a day where you have a training flight. How would that day go?
Okay, so, um, for our local training missions, they're usually three hour flights, so show up a couple of hours before to start a planning. The local training that we do is tactical airlift and like low level formation flying. So there's a lot of pre planning route study briefings that have to happen in order to keep everybody safe, obviously. So you'd show up in the morning, you'd get going on planning your route as a first officer, assess any threats or towers because we're in the low level environment and when I say low level, we fly a, uh, 200ft min separation distance from any obstacles. So we usually fly off of our radar ultimate. So, yeah, you don't want to be any lower than 200, especially when our wingspan is 134ft and we're pulling 60 degree turns. It gets kind of low. Um, yeah, it is. It's awesome. It's so fun.
On the Aurora, we do 200ft over the water and it feels low. I can't imagine. Over land. That's crazy. Yeah.
Uh, it's so much fun. So, yeah, a lot of route study is really important. Everybody needs to know exactly what the role is and what the plan is. And just so there are no surprises, surprisers aren't usually everybody's friend. So once all the briefing is done, you head out and you'll do your rip around our tactical training area, which is to the north of Trenton, which is kind of basically like Ottawa River south to Highway Seven. It's an absolutely massive chunk of Ontario, which is great because we can fly around the majority of it at 200ft and ATC basically blocks off, uh, a portion of airspace when we activate that area. So we're protected at least from IFR traffic. So if there's like a Cessna or whatever flying around, we have to keep our eyes open for it. But it's definitely a good area to go and play around and learn some cool stuff.
Do you ever have bug smashers in the area? Bug smashers being what we jokingly call small aircraft when you're flying around in something big in the military?
Yeah, loads of them. I mean, we can Usually, uh, pick them up on TCAs, so if they.
Have a transponder TCAs is Traffic Collision Avoidance System, M. So basically that works with transponders to give you a warning when there's something in the area and if the other person Has A proper TCAs system as well, it'll even give you deconfliction if you need it.
Yeah, so we'll do that. But I mean, for the most part, when we're flying around at 200ft, most bug smashers are higher than that. So there's not a tremendous amount of conflict. And we're really big too. Right. And typically we fly around as a package of two aircraft so we're relatively easy to spot and um, we just keep a lot of comms going, like constantly chattering on whatever frequencies are in the area. We make traffic calls all the time. So it's all about just kind of see and be seen when we're doing that kind of training. Yeah. So we'll come back from that, we'll typically do a debrief of about an hour and tell everybody what they did great and what they didn't and then call it a day. So it's pretty standard eight hour day, except you're doing a whole lot of stuff in that 8 hours.
I think it's worth noticing too that even for well qualified pilots on squadron, there's still that debrief every time. You're still going to get pointers on what you can do better next time. You pointed out that in every flight, uh, as student, you're going to have somebody saying, hey, you need to work on this, you need to work on this. And that does get less with time, but it's still going to be happening because flying is an art and you're always working to perfect it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So how many times can you expect to fly in a week at, uh, four, three, six?
Well, that depends on your role. I mean, if you're an instructor, you're probably flying three to four times a week. I would say if you're a student, you would be doing training flights ideally once or twice a week. But that would change just based on what kind of operational taskings are happening or if the units, how many crews are deployed, uh, at any given time. So you would definitely be flying a lot. I've heard of guys recently getting 500, 600 hours a year.
That's quite good.
It's very good. And I shouldn't say good, it's very high. Um, and that's just based on how busy the unit is at this point. Uh, and when I was there, when I left, it was kind of ramping up at that point. Yeah. So I would say that's quite busy. And you can expect to be away a lot of the time. So when I was pretty actively flying before I got pregnant with my first daughter, I was gone, I would say three to four months of the year. Just cumulatively. That's not really like deployments. That's just trips a week or two here, a couple of days here, and then just all added up. It was hard. We didn't have any pets, we didn't have any plants. I remember one time I had to dust my couch.
I was just going to say, I remember one time you guys saying that there was cobwebs on your couch.
Yeah, I looked at it, I'm like, Whoa, that's disgusting. When was the last time I sat down and just watched Netflix or something? Uh, I remember having to dust it. It was weird. Yeah, it was definitely busy, dynamic, and especially with my husband, um, also being an operational pilot, we would kind of just pass each other in the kitchen once in a while, give a high five and tell each other how things were going. And then you go your separate routes again. Uh, it was very dynamic. It's a very challenging world to be a part of. It's hard to keep appointments. There's a lot of different things going on. But the time of my life that I was living, that I thrived on that kind of, um, pace.
Yeah. Depending on where you are in life, that kind of lifestyle can be really exciting for a while.
For a while, yeah.
Can you tell me about the training and upgrade process for a J model pilot?
So, the Otu, which is the operational training unit that, um, new ingredients or people that are coming from other fleets to learn how to fly the J. The Otu is, uh, five, six months long. You do about 200 hours in the SIM. So we have two Cat D sims that are full motion. They're like the exact replica of the aircraft or the at least a cockpit. They have the same flight computers in them. So it's very real. We actually don't train guys on the actual airframe, like the actual aircraft until after they have their tickets to fly. Uh, yeah, we do everything up to qualification so they legally can fly that aircraft without ever having physically touched the aircraft.
That's wild.
Yeah. Uh, it speaks to the quality of the sims and the quality of training.
Impressive.
Yeah. So by the time guys and girls actually get to the flight line, they've got about 200 hours of SIM time and they already hold a ticket on the aircraft. And it's a pretty crazy feeling, actually. I remember the first time I got into the plane and the one thing that's sort of different from the SIM to the actual aircraft is taxiing. And I remember taxiing off the line for the very first time, going, whoa, this is crazy because I hadn't experienced that before. But I'm. Going up. I'm fully qualified, and we're going for our first flight. So, um, that was a trip, for sure.
I think that's common because it was similar in the Aurora. They're not a car simulator, right? Like, they're not a driving simulator. They're a flight simulator. And they do their best in terms of the physics of it in very short strokes of a landing or taxiing. But that's where the fidelity is not perfect.
Yeah, exactly. But it's very effective. So after the Otu is finished, like I said, 200 hours of SIM, and I would say probably about 20 hours in the aircraft, then you're blessed. There you go. You're good to go. Here's your pat on the back and your course completion certificate. And then you shoot over to four three six as an operational line pilot. And then you would start your Ogtp, or on the job training package to upgrade from a first officer to an aircraft commander. And the goal of that package is to be completed from start to finish under two years. Whether, uh, or not that actually happens in practice, it kind of depends on a lot of different factors. I can't even tell you how many waivers I had to sign as a chief training to go past that, just because not necessarily the guys or girls weren't flying, but it was okay. Well, you're deploying for four months, and during that four months, for safety's sake, we're not going to be doing any Ogtp. So we're just kind of put a pin in it. Right. So it's just really like a, uh, laundry list of items that you have to be exposed to while being assessed by an instructor. Yeah, we get these little books, like, you call it like your yearbook. So can you sign my yearbook, please, Mr. Instructor Who Just Witnessed me do, I don't know, an NBG formation flight. And then you'd go through these several hundred ticks, and then at the end of it, hopefully, you're an all singing, all dancing aircraft commander, uh, two ship formation mission commander.
So you guys are flying formation flights with night vision goggles?
Yeah, we do.
That's crazy.
Yeah, it's cool. I mean, the aircraft has a lot of different tools, though, to make it quite straightforward. So we have this really cool system called Capsky, which is computer assisted position station keeping Equipment. So essentially what it is is a system on board that can link a master aircraft with another aircraft, or up to 32 total aircraft, which, yeah, maybe we'll get there one day. Um, but, uh, it can link all these planes together. So once you're fully capped up, you can just essentially push a button and then fly off of leads autopilot. So we can do that in IMC conditions and then pretty much be hands off. And then you're sort of a systems manager at that point, just monitoring what your aircraft is doing and making sure that everything makes sense. There are a lot of tools, like I said, on board, that make formation flying easier. We don't do that when we're at 200ft. Obviously, it's visual at that point, but it's also reflected on your instruments, like how close you are to, uh, the other aircraft, your constant communication. The reason why we do it all the time in training is because, like I said, the skill fade is very real. So, yeah, we do that as a standard for any local training that we're doing. If there's any issue with serviceability or availability of other aircraft, we would revert to a single ship training. But for the majority of the time that you're doing any kind of force generation flights, it's going to be information. Wow.
Uh, so you were talking about getting your yearbook signed and getting all that stuff done. So basically, once you get your Ogtp signed off, there must be a check flight at the end to upgrade.
We do two check rides or check flights. One of them is a strategic flight. So that would be flying like an operationally tasked mission that is essentially from A to B or A to B to C to D kind of thing. So we typically try and, um, line those up with international missions. Or if it's just like a standard run to a couple of different places, we would use those as a strat check. I think that one of the pretty popular strat checks is, uh, an 85 86. So that's referring to the call signs that we use canforce 85 and Can Force 86. And what those are are the alert resupply missions. So we'll leave Trenton, we'll head up to a staging base like Frobisher Bay or Tule in Greenland, and then we'll pop into Alert and download whatever they need, like fuel or cases of beer or whatever they need. And then, um, we'll come back as canforce 86. So the 85 86 is a kind of perfect strat check in the sense that you're dealing with the Arctic, which is in itself a very dynamic situation with weather or just the craziest things always happen in the Arctic. So, um, it's a really good test of someone's ability to think on the fly.
A difficult spot to operate.
Totally. Yeah. So that's a pretty good example of a cookie cutter strat check. A tat check or a tactical checkout is generally done locally in the same format that we do most of our training missions. So we would go out with a goal of doing some AirDrop for the day because we do tons of live AirDrop locally. We practice that often as well. So the pilot being evaluated would create a training scenario to achieve this mission. So it would be a two ship formation, typically day, where there would be a few different things that would have to happen during that mission. It would be a simulated threat environment. So there has to be that kind of consideration. So it's typically a two ship tactical formation flight where they perform at least one AirDrop event, one air land event, and then come back home and complete the debrief themselves as if they were the mission commander. And that in itself is the tactical checkout.
All right. And then that's it. Then you're, uh, an AC?
Then you're an AC. Get out the door and do some things. Yeah, do it for real. Yeah, exactly.
You were talking about time away on the J model, and you mentioned that on your busier years, you were averaging, like, three to four months away. Do you think that's a good estimate now for how long someone can expect to be away per year?
I mean, I think it's ballpark, it fluctuates, depending on what kind of operations are happening around the world. But I would think if you were there for several years, that would be a pretty reasonable estimate of what your life would be like at that squadron.
That must be pretty difficult to be away that much. Did you find that it made family life difficult?
No, but my family life was very simple when I was in the thick of it at four three Six. So it was just me, and like I said, my husband, we were both flying frequently. We had no kids, no pets, so it was a very easy, uh, situation. But a lot of the people that I flew with, with families and other responsibilities outside of work, it's definitely a challenge. It takes a very supportive family network or spouse or whatever you have in your life. In order to facilitate our pilots and other air crew members being away that much, I was posted to four two Six after my first child. So I actually never had my kids while I was flying operationally at four three six.
Okay.
Um, I don't think it would have worked. I can't see the obligations and responsibilities that I have now as a mother. I can't see it working in the capacity that I was working at four three Six at the time.
Is that particularly because you also have your spouse as a pilot, too?
Uh, yeah. I mean, I do know other mothers who are pilots who make it work. It's a challenge for everybody. But there definitely has to be somebody, be it a parent or a spouse or someone who is a constant that they can fall back on for support of your kids or your dog or whatever it is, in order to make that functional.
What was the hardest part of the job when you started?
I think I've always kind of struggled a little bit with impostor syndrome. So when I showed up at the unit, I'm like, this young. I'm, um, the only female pilot there. And there are all these guys, and I'm saying guys because they're guys. There are all these guys with this ton of experience, really kind of like hardened. The unit has spent the last seven years at that .8 years in Afghanistan. So you look around and you go, okay, I really have to have my act together here, because you want to bring something useful to the table. So at the beginning, I felt like I was almost a little bit out of place. But once I got some reps in and realized that I was a, uh, trained, qualified pilot who could do all the things that I needed to do in order to bring value to whatever mission we were doing, that point, I kind of relaxed and thought, okay, I do belong here, and I'm useful. And then it started to really be able to enjoy myself at that point. Just once, uh, you kind of take a breath and say, okay, I'm where I should be. This is good.
You found that with some training and some experience came confidence as well.
Oh, yeah, totally. And I think that's a perfect way to put it is once the confidence caught up to the competence, once I found that balance, it was a lot better. But I did have some struggles at the beginning, for sure. It was hard. Um, so I started maybe a little shakily, but I think I finished strong. There's hope for everyone. I had a lot of good instructors and support and a lot of good friends there. And like I said, it was really more of, like, a family environment once I learned to relax a little bit. So that was huge. But just getting settled in and realizing, yeah, okay, you're where you're supposed to be. That helped.
Yeah. Where do you think most pilots tend to struggle on the J model.
Okay, so this is me speaking from an instructor perspective. I would typically find that people who were inherently more indecisive struggled, because I found that in a lot of situations where you have to make quick decisions if you have a tendency to overthink, and I'm not saying don't think enough, like, you got to think enough, but don't overdo it, because, I mean, TikTok right. So I found that people who were really good at talking themselves out of decisions that I had already made caused for the most struggle. So, again, going back to the gum thing, like, take a piece of gum, pop it in, have a couple chews, and then decide on something that you think is the best course of action based on what you know. And I always really kind of push the time, knowledge, attention triangle, too. It's like in human performance, in military aviation, there's this triangle, and one side is time, one side is knowledge, one side is attention. If you don't have time, you need more knowledge and attention. If you don't have knowledge, then you need more time and attention. Kind of, you have to pull. There's always, like, a balance between what you have there. So I've always kind of impressed upon people that the one thing that you have control over is the knowledge piece. So I find that the pilots who are more frequently in the books always revisiting that technical knowledge, that they're a lot stronger when you get into the aircraft and something goes wrong, because they don't have to dwell on recalling that information. That's going to make their lives a lot easier. They don't have to pull out like a binder or whatever. Look up the reference on the iPad. It happens a lot. Like, I did that frequently. But in the really sticky situations, you can't be pulling out references and it just doesn't work like that.
That's where that knowledge is going to allow you to take less time to exactly.
It's like a cheat code. You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.
I know how to fix this because I just read the chapter on hydraulics. I know what the problem is.
Yeah. Uh, you'll hear that over and over again, how important it is to stay in the books. You need to be really well informed on your systems.
It's just all levels. Knowledge is key, all levels of experience. And as an instructor, it's so obvious when a guy or a girl isn't in the books. And sometimes it's pretty funny actually try and kind of talk around it. But there's no faking when you don't know what you're talking about. It's so obvious. So my advice to people out there is don't fake it. It's better always to say to your instructor, I don't know, instead of trying to make up this weird and wonderful story about, uh, whatever you come up with, just admit it, you don't know. Whatever. Move on.
What would you say makes the J model unique amongst Canada's aircraft?
I would say it's versatility. It can operate in almost any environment, it can land almost anywhere. Uh, and the level of training that all of our crews have as a standard is unbiased. But it's pretty incredible. I mean, if you look at the mission sets that we're able to undertake anything from, like I said, like a low level night formation, to high Arctic resupply in any weather condition, to operating in various types of threat environments to deliver whatever we need to do. That's pretty cool. Again, uh, going back to the C 17 thing yes, that aircraft has a very impressive capability. However, I think the versatility of the J is really what makes it stand apart.
I'll, ah, buy that. What is the coolest or strangest cargo you've ever had on the J model?
I once flew filing cabinets into Central Africa. Um, it was an extremely complicated mission to get in there. It was like around the time that Ebola was a super big deal.
Oh, yeah.
And yeah, we needed all these diplos and handling was really challenging.
Diplos being diplomatic clearances.
And then we got in there and I didn't even realize what we were dropping off at that specific location because we had seven or eight spots that we had to go and drop various things off to, like, smaller missions. We called that small mission Sustainment at the time. Now, uh, we call it all present. And, yeah, as we went through this super challenging day and the weather was terrible and the handlers were really difficult and just, uh, planning the flight itself was challenging. The airport was incredibly busy with all these it was just total chaos. I asked the loadmaster what we were dropping off, and she's like, Filing cabinets. I'm like, cool. Now, they were, like, super fancy filing cabinets, like those FastCo or whatever they're called. Filing cabinets.
Like the ones for secret documents and stuff?
Yeah, you got it. They were special filing cabinets, but they were filing cabinets nonetheless. I was thinking to myself, okay, filing cabinets. Yeah, exactly.
That's the mission sometimes, right?
Yeah, exactly. I wish it was cooler, but, uh, that's the only one that really comes to mind that kind of stood out.
Well, I bet you've got a good one for this. What is the coolest location you've ever flown into? Or you can pick a couple if you have a couple.
Yeah, I do have a couple. So from, like, a whole man, it's so awesome perspective. I remember we were flying into Nairobi International Airport, and immediately to the south of that airport is, uh, this massive game preserve. And we were probably like, 500ft altitude, like, a mile or less from touchdown. And the loadmaster in the back goes, oh, uh, giraffe. Totally disregard everything that's going on in front of me. And I go where? Looking out. And then kind of gets suddenly snapped back to reality. I was not pilot flying at that exact moment, just for the record. But that was really cool because I did totally see a giraffe. Another really amazing location that we fly into is Goma in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And this runway, the first time that I went in there had just freshly been repaired because a lava flow from the volcano that's entirely active at the end of the runway had actually erupted and damaged a bunch of the runway. So that was pretty amazing. Flying into this runway that's basically like, abutted on one end by a volcano. That was really crazy. And then the, uh, final one that comes to mind, and I wasn't flying. I was actually a passenger with the Argentinian air force. But we went in in a hurk. We flew to an operating base that they have in Antarctica. I got to be an observer for that flight. I was sitting in the cockpit on an overturned milk crate as we landed. But, uh, yeah, it was pretty amazing. I think anything in the Arctic or Antarctic, for that matter, is just breathtaking. I mean, the ruggedness of the terrain up there and just the wild variation in weather and any kind of environmental factor you can think of is so dynamic. I think anybody that goes to the Arctic for the first time is struck and just goes, holy crap, I can't believe that I'm doing this. I always get excited to go up.
There and from an aviation perspective, it's so, um, harsh and challenging at times. And it's a very unforgiving place, too.
Oh, yeah, totally.
Wow, what a cool experience.
Military interpreter. Oh, it was amazing. It, uh, was very cool. I'm really thankful for that opportunity.
What is the craziest situation you've ever found yourself in on the J model?
So it was probably one of the one of the craziest situations I would say would have been in 2017 with the Alberta Wildfires. So we were trying to get into Williams Lake, Alberta, which is like one of the most affected areas in that fire season. So the highest levels of authority had given us all these waivers to load up hundreds of people into the back. And the C 17 was there as well. And we had a bunch of rotary wing support on top of that. And we were trying to get into Williams Lake. I'm pretty sure the C 17 wasn't there yet, but there were fire active fires burning, uh, on either end of the runway. So the tree line was separated from the threshold by, I would say, no more than a few hundred feet. We tried to get in on one end and couldn't because it was just really tremendously thick smoke immediately prior to touchdown. And I didn't feel comfortable flying through it because engines need oxygen to live. So I'm like, well, maybe not, we'll just stay out of that. So we had to do a go around because it tried to kind of get it in. And we have stabilized approach criteria that, uh, you have to have the aircraft in a certain state at a certain point prior to touchdown in order to make sure that you keep everybody safe. We were not stable, so we did a go around and we're really driving the controllers nuts because it's a very dynamic environment. There is a ton of fire support, there's non military aircraft everywhere. There's a lot of helicopters. So we did a go around. I knew that we were driving the controller crazy, so we came back around in sort of like a dumbbell. So we pulled like a 180 and then tried to come back at the other end of the runway. And we had a pretty decent tailwind. It wasn't outside of our limits, but it was aggressive. Yeah, we ended up making it work, but it was more aggressive than I usually like to be. But in this case, we have to get in. Right.
And that was for evacuation purposes.
Yeah. So we were there to be ready as an aid to the civil power, uh, in case there were a tremendous amount of civilians that needed to be evacuated. So it was kind of funny, actually, because at the end of the day, we were there. The C 17 was there, and like I said, a couple of helicopters. And it turned out that the expectation was that the one main escape route or highway was about to get closed by the fire.
Oh, wow.
But fortunately, that highway ended up staying open, so we really actually didn't have to evacuate anyone at all. They all just left my vehicle. So hooray. But, uh, we were there. We were ready to go.
Well, you guys did do evacuations from Fort Mac, didn't you?
Yeah, well, we did several evacuation flights from other locations peppered around Alberta. We typically do that every time it's applantis. So applantis is a domestic operation in response to an environmental disaster, a disabled power. So we've done a lot of that. I've personally done a huge amount of people civilian evacuations from domestic locations, but, um, just that particular one, we didn't actually take anybody out that day.
So you deployed to the Middle East in support of Op impact. How was that experience as a whole, and did you have any moments that were frightening or exciting?
So, as a whole, I thought it was amazing. I felt like I was at the top of my game. We were doing a ton of flying. We were super sharp. I had a fantastic crew. We all got along really well. And that definitely makes a difference when you're, uh, deployed for an extended period of time. I was over there for four months, and I just loved the people that I was flying with. Definitely some exciting moments. A lot of it was very new. Obviously, you're flying in, like, a very dynamic environment because, uh, everything is controlled in different ways than it would be domestically, because you're in a theater of our operations. So it's controlled by you mean because.
It'S controlled by military controllers versus civilian air traffic control.
Yeah. So there is a lot of civilian air traffic control, but it's a blended environment, um, between civilian and military. So, um, that was sort of a new experience for me. I had experienced it just a little bit in the past, not over a longer period of time. So learning that, uh, was good, but it was also exciting in the sense that you had this air picture of kind of knowing different types of operations that were happening at, uh, any given time around you, and you had to be aware of that in order to avoid them. So there would be stuff happening on the ground, like the army that you had to avoid for your own safety, too.
Right.
So that was pretty cool. Definitely. One of my most poignant experiences in my entire career was in Iraq. I was brand new to theater. It was probably like my third day or second or third mission, and we were flying into a smaller airfield in northern Iraq. And it was just at dusk. And, uh, I had been in there once before, I remember that now. And there were only like a couple sort of dusty pink sandbags at the landing touchdown zone, like where we had to touch down doing a short field landing or a tactical arrival. And everything before those sandbags or those dusty panel markers was runway. It was a 10,000 foot runway, but 6000ft of, uh, that runway had been destroyed by Is. So they had dug these huge trenches on either side of Center Line in order to prevent any coalition forces from using that subsequently.
That was a really common thing too. And when we were flying there in the Aurora, and we'd have a look at airfields, most of the major airfields in Iraq had had their runways destroyed in some way, basically, to deny them to coalition aircraft.
Yeah, exactly. It's, uh, denying use of these really incredibly important infrastructure pieces. Right. So anyway, going in there for the second time, it's kind of dusk. Ah, it was a decision to not be on NVGs. That was the wrong decision on my part. And I, um, ended up landing on the destroyed part of the runway. We were short from the touchdown zone by about 1500ft. And as soon as we touched down, I knew that we were not where we were supposed to be. It was pretty bumpy, but luckily we were on Center Line, so the nose wheel didn't get damaged, there was no damage to the aircraft, nobody was hurt. But that was a very rude awakening. And it took me actually, several years to be able to talk about that incident without getting extremely upset and emotional about it, just because you're given a supreme amount of trust as an aircraft commander. And I had 40 something passengers in the back and it was just so close of a call. It was the closest call that I ever had in my entire career to things going terribly, terribly wrong. That was actually the start of my deployment. And I'm, uh, happy to say that it was only kind of uphill, or whatever the term is you want to use from there. But yeah, that was definitely the most frightening moment in my entire career.
So I think most pilots have a time where they do something, it turns out to be the wrong call, and they scare the crap out of themselves. How did you bounce back from that? Because you still had a tour to fly.
Yeah. So I talked to the crew immediately and I was very frank with them and I said, look, I need to know how everybody feels about me being your aircraft commander. Do you still trust me? And everybody said, yeah, whether or not they really felt that, or they felt they had to say that, or they truly did feel that. Um, but I thought that it was really important to give them the opportunity to speak up. But after speaking to the crew, I uh, was reassured that everybody felt the same way in the aircraft. Like really, it was bumpy but it was relatively benign, I think. Yeah, not everybody knew and I tried to explain how I was feeling about it, but once I had the confidence of the crew, or at least they assured me that they had confidence in me, that really kind of helped me bounce back quite quickly in order to keep doing what we were doing.
I think when you have a close call, part of it is that the people who weren't responsible, they just see what happened, which was, it was only a close call. So really nothing happened. But you as the person making the decisions and in control, you see what could have happened, you see what almost happened and that can be really scary.
Yeah, I mean, revisiting the worst case scenario in my head was probably the worst thing that I could do and I did that for many years. I also realized after the fact my husband and I went to Barbados on vacation after I got back from my deployment and I was laying on the beach in Barbados thinking about this landing over and over and over again, I couldn't stop thinking about it. I told my husband and I was like, I cannot believe still that I did that. And like I said, it took a few years for me to be able to talk about it. But what I found helped was just being open and honest about it and really hoping that sharing it with other people in whatever state or level of experience that they're in is always like, hey, trust but verify. There's such a thing as overconfidence in yourself to be aware of your limitations and kind of take a breath and think that this can happen. Uh, it's not that it's never going to happen. It can and it will and it has. And I just wanted to kind of share that with as many people as I could in order to remind us all that not everything goes as planned all the time and it definitely can happen. Just keep a heightened level of awareness and complacency is a thing. And I was so new in the deployment that I didn't really consider it as complacency.
Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, right?
Yeah.
You're brand new and you're doing your best and you're trying to make use of all the information you have, but you only have so much and there's a steep learning curve when you get to theater, it's a totally alien environment. Everything looks different, everything feels different, the aircraft performs different because you're at, ah, a way different temperature than you're used to being in. Everything is different. Yeah.
And I often think back to it and I was obviously not flying by myself. There was another pilot with me and he was quite new. As an Fo. And here's me flying with a new Fo. And I ask him like, hey, are you visual with the box? And he's like, yeah. And of course he's going to say that because he's flying with the Chief Check pilot. You know what I mean? There's, uh, maybe a little bit too much trust there too. So yeah, it was just a really interesting experience in what can go wrong in HPMA, um, from a personal perspective, but also a crew perspective. And um, yeah, once I kind of accepted that that happens to not everybody but me, it happens to everybody that, uh, I was kind of okay with moving forward with that.
Yeah. And that's like HPMA the human performance and military aviation. That's what sky was talking about earlier. And those are those things that we do studies on every year as pilots, as air crew, you have to do, ah, a study on it every year where you take a case study of one that's happened, you go through it, you identify what went wrong, what could they have done to not run into this? And it happens to everybody. Like, I've been on a flight that became a subject of one of those, these things happen and that's why there's cases to study, that's why we study them. And you have to realize that you're not immune to these situations arising for you as well.
Yeah. Ah, well put.
What would you say are the most memorable flights you've had on the J model?
So definitely my most memorable flight was a part of the Open Skies mission. And Open Skies is basically a treaty based mission where western nations and Eastern bloc nations could fly over each other's airspace and take pictures. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Definitely worth a Google if you've never heard of it before. But we were doing a practice route in the UK. And essentially we went there as a Canadian team, but there was an international contingent on board, lots of observers, and we were treated like we were a, uh, visiting nation. So the Brits really kind of wind and dined us and it was very diplomatic. But what we were able to do was choose the route that we flew over. The UK. Low level, it's a very busy airspace, but Open Skies is very, very high level diplomatic clearance. We could go anywhere we want, essentially with a very small list of places that were no goes for public safety reasons. So one of the places that we flew over was my grandmother's house in remote western Scotland, the Isle of Isla. I had asked kind of like subtly, I said, hey, can I slip this waypoint? And do you think anybody would mind if we went and buzed my grandma's house? She's 93 and she lives on her own in this island. I see her once a year. It would be the coolest thing ever for her. And, uh, they're like, yeah, that's so cool. Let's do it. So it was actually hilarious because there was like a colonel briefing to this large international group of what our flight was going to look like. And all points were numbered. One, two, three. And then he got to briefing 0.9. And then after that it was grandma's house, point eleven. So we flew up the coast of my grandma's island. I saw my cousins waving flags on their front lawn and I saw people in the little village that my grandma lived in waving tea towels on the ground. And then I just put in a really steep bank and just buzed right over her garden. I saw her sitting out there in a little red sweater waving to me. Um, it was cool. Something I will never, ever forget. And now I'm actually a little bit of a celebrity in that tiny little village.
What an amazing experience.
It was great. Uh, I'll cherish it forever.
That's so cool. Can I tell you my most memorable flight that you did?
Oh, yeah, sure.
So when I was on my first tour in the Middle East, it was actually sky that flew us home from Kuwait. So I was probably the most exhausted I've ever been in my life. Our, uh, first tour, we changed schedule every week, so you never really got a chance to settle into a sleep pattern. I was just totally wiped. So we load up onto this Herc and who's flying but my friend sky. So they let me sit in the jump seat up in the cockpit and I'm watching them kind of do all their stuff. And that was a cool experience because a lot of the systems on the Herc are similar because they have similar, uh, engines to the Aurora. The J model has some differences, obviously, but I could see some similarities in how you guys were doing things and that was really cool. But I just remember being so exhausted and trying to stay awake for as much as I could, but I kept falling asleep. But it was just like so cool to get picked up. You're going home and who's bringing you home but a close friend. So it was just so neat to have somebody that I knew and trusted bringing us back. And you go back into the back of the Herc and everybody everywhere you look, people are just stretched out wherever there was room. There wasn't like a ton of room, but everybody was stretched out in all available space. People were passed out. And it was just such a cool thing to be able to watch you do your thing and to know we could trust you to bring us home safely. It was really neat.
I can't believe I didn't offer you the bunk. I feel terrible about that now.
I didn't know there was a bunk, but that was, uh, my memorable flight with sky.
That's cool. I'm glad you remember that?
Oh, yeah. I'll never forget it. What would you say is the most fulfilling part of your job?
So we do a lot of things, but once in a while, you do things that make you feel like you're making a significant difference. And those are the flights that really matter. They resonate and you hold them close, like any kind of humanitarian lift that we do. Or like I talked about the evacuations, just seeing the looks of relief on people's faces when you're bringing them on board, that just makes everything worth it. So, yeah, once in a while, you feel like you're doing some good stuff.
In 30 seconds or less. If I'm a pilot in training, why should I want to fly the J model? What makes it unique and who would it appeal to?
I would say that in my own experience, I feel like I have lived multiple lifetimes of experiences within a very short span of a few years. So you'll form these memories and experiences that you'll keep with you forever. And it's things that you do on a relatively regular basis that are once in a lifetime that most people would never see. You also develop an appreciation for Canada that it's such a great country to live in, because you travel around the world and you see how things are so different and definitely not necessarily better. And, um, I think that I've developed more of an appreciation for being Canadian and living in Canada after having traveled across the world and seeing just how very different it is and can be across the planet. So I think it would appeal to anyone who has an open heart, uh, an open mind, a willingness to experience some adventure and see some cool, uh, stuff.
For this next question, it requires a little bit of explanation. Sky's here because she is a great pilot and a great friend, and I really want to hear her perspectives. But when I do have somebody on the show who is part of a less represented group, such as being a woman, I like to ask them about their experiences in the forces. So, sky, how has your experience been in the RCAF as a woman?
So, overall, it's been very positive. I mean, if I have to do it all over again, I certainly would. But it does present some challenges, and I think as a micro society in the Air Force, we're getting a lot better at it. But I certainly have had some challenges being particularly only woman for the majority of my time doing this. A lot of that comes down to just people kind of feeling you out a little bit more than they normally would with a man in this situation. So another thing that I've kind of noticed over the years is it can be a little bit lonely in the sense that if you're on the road with a crew and you have pretext to spend time with each other because you're on the road as a crew. Let's all go for drinks. But by the time you get home, I would say eight times out of ten, I'm not going to get a, uh, call or a text from one of those crew members saying, hey, you want to grab a beer or hang out? Because it's weird. For some reason, I think that it's not necessarily a problem for people working and I say people, I mean men working with females in this industry. But there is just still somewhat of a barrier when it comes to how we interact socially and what kind of bonds are developed. Because I think that a lot of time there's still this mentality of keeping somewhat of an arm's length between genders. And sometimes I get that maybe some guy's wife is like, why are you calling up this girl to go for a drink? That's weird. Whereas if it was a coworker who's the same gender, there would be no question. Right. I think when I go back to the element of loneliness, there's not a lot of women still on the cruise. Pilots loadmasters whatever other trade you want to throw in there. So, yeah, it can be lonely sometimes.
Uh, do you think there's been an improvement over the years you've been in, in the experience of being a woman in the RCAF and how you're treated by others?
I mean, I think that comes inherently just from experience, because you get to know people and people get to know you and they all realize that you're just a normal person and you're really easy to hang out with. But I think the challenge comes, and I guess would apply for everyone, is when you're new or you're different and however that wants to be labeled, there's always this extra psychological barrier. I don't know if it's for you or for the group that's accepting you that you kind of have to step past. So that takes time. It just doesn't happen immediately. Yeah, I don't want it to sound like it's this really terrible island that I live on, but I also think that it's important to know that it's still kind of a dynamic that would happen sometimes. I still have made friends that I consider brothers. They're more than coworkers. They're brothers to me. And I'll cherish that piece of this job until I die. But, yeah, I think it's important to talk about the good and the not so good.
I totally agree.
Have have people prepared right when they're coming into this. It's a massive pool of unknown information. Yeah, that's what I got.
What is the most important thing you do to keep yourself ready for your job?
Stay in the books. Stay self aware, which I've learned through hard experiences and, um, know your limits.
When you say self aware, can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the same thing as know your limitations, but I've learned to self reflect a lot better and know that I'm extra tired or I may not be reacting to a situation how I normally react because of whatever reason, whether something's going on.
In your life or some kind of extra factor or whatever.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, if we're talking about readiness for your job, self awareness should be knowing where you're lacking and where you're succeeding and what you need to do to be better. It's just a, uh, self evaluation. Maybe a consistent self evaluation.
Okay. What do you think makes a good pilot?
I think, again, I touched on this before, but my two buzwords are competence and confidence, but both inappropriate doses. They have to be balanced. If you have too much of one or too little of one, it doesn't work that way.
I really like that answer. It's very close to the answer that I have in my own head, which I never give, because I like to hear, what other people?
What's yours?
For me, it's the right blend of confidence and humility. Competence I really like the addition of, because obviously that's critical. But I think that as a pilot, you need to be confident. You have to be able to make decisions. You have to have an air of confidence that breeds calm and confidence in others, that will give them a confidence in you. But you also need to be humble because that's what prevents you from overextending yourself or thinking, oh, it can't happen to me, or putting yourself in a situation that's way beyond your ability.
Yeah, that's well put.
That's my secret answer. And now my secret is out. Okay, final question. Let's say you're in the mess, and you run into a pilot who is in our training system, and they're looking for advice. What would your advice be to this new pilot?
So my advice, which I would really wish that I had gone back in time and told myself this, would be to take more pictures, keep a journal, because you're literally living the good old days.
Yeah, I love the idea of a journal, especially.
I did keep a journal for a little bit. I don't know why I stopped. It was probably a period of about a year. And I read that now, and it's just totally wild. It brings back such vivid memories, so much more than, like, what a line in your logbook would. And even if it was just a paragraph or something weird or something that went wrong on the flight or something that was awesome, it brings me right back so fresh, and it's like, the best favor that you could do for your future self in, uh, order to preserve that portion of your life.
I love this answer. And honestly, like pilots out there, I know you're busy, but you are living the adventures of a lifetime right now. And it is so hard when you go back and you look through your logbook and you remember, oh, yeah, I was operating here. Well, what happened there? I went there five or six times. Which time was it that this thing happened? And eventually somebody might come to you like I am, or for whatever reason. Air Canada Interview. Looking for your stories, looking for, hey, what's the time you had a big challenge that you had to overcome? What's the time when you had an, uh, interpersonal conflict that you had to solve and keep the flight going? These are standard interview questions, and you can look back and remember, oh, yeah, that was really tough that time, and how did I get through that? But even beyond things like that, beyond, like, a pragmatic reason, just to be able to look back and relive those adventures is huge. The journal I kept, I kept through my tours in the Middle East. And not only did it aid in my diagnosis, I love reading through it and just reliving the adventure. Because like I said to you, the feelings of that time are obviously kind of mixed, but it's still my life's great adventure. So to be able to look back on that is huge.
Totally. And what an amazing gift you can give to your kids one day, too, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, sky, that's going to wrap up the interview. I just want to thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. I know you guys have a move coming up, and you've got two kids, so life is pretty busy. So thanks so much for the chat.
Thank you, Brian.
Okay, that's going to wrap up our chat about tactical airlift and the CC 130 J Super Hercules with sky. For our next episode, we'll be sitting down with Brigadier General John Alexander, commander of two Canadian air division. We gathered questions from you, the community, through the Canadian forces subreddit about the deo pilot hiring freeze, why it's happening, and what we hope to achieve with it, plus a few others. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard on the show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest? Then you can reach out to us, uh, at thepilotprojectpodcast at, uh@gmail.com, or on all social media at Atpodpilotproject. Have you noticed something new in our intro? That's right. We're now presented to you by Skies magazine and RCAF. Today, we're so excited for what this partnership will bring. We want to assure you that the show's format will not change, but this partnership should bring us new growth opportunities, as well as, um, some awesome guests for you to listen to. Speaking of growth, we want to thank you again. Last month, we had more listeners in one month than we have ever had before. But we still need your help with the big three that's like and follow on social media. Share with your friends and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.