Christian Napier 00:12 - 00:25 Hello, everyone, and welcome to Teamwork a Better Way. I'm Christian Apier, and I am joined by my incredible, incredible co-host, Spencer Horn. Spencer, how are you doing on this wonderful Friday morning? Spencer Horn 00:25 - 00:33 Oh, it's so good. Good to be with you, Christian. I always look forward to seeing you and being with you. Well, good things are happening. Spencer Horn 00:35 - 00:36 Life is good. Christian Napier 00:36 - 00:41 Yeah, well, you got to tell me about it. What's the latest? Spencer Horn 00:41 - 00:55 Oh, well, I just got my tickets to Doha. That should be fun. Could be in the middle of a warm situation with Iran. Of course, I'm not going to be staying on a military base. Spencer Horn 00:55 - 00:58 I'll be in town, so I should be pretty safe, don't you think? Christian Napier 00:59 - 01:13 I totally agree. I mean, I worked in Doha for a fair bit of time on the Asian games when they hosted them back in 2006. And everybody was concerned because of the whole thing that was going down in Iraq. But it is super safe there. Christian Napier 01:13 - 01:16 It's a great city. You're going to have a wonderful time. Spencer Horn 01:17 - 01:24 Yeah, so excited. And before that, you and I need to, before I go, we need to go grab some mole at the Red Iguana. Christian Napier 01:25 - 01:32 Yeah, we do. It's overdue. And we need to inaugurate the new year with some Mole for sure. So let's get it on the calendar. Christian Napier 01:33 - 01:39 Got it. Okay. Well, okay. We've had enough talk here because I can't wait. Christian Napier 01:40 - 01:49 I cannot wait. I'm serious. Like I'm on pins and needles because we've got an amazing guest and his topic is right up my alley. So Spencer, why don't you do the honors and introduce him? Spencer Horn 01:49 - 02:22 Absolutely. We've got Bill Blankson today from Story Builders, which he is the founder of, and the chief story architect there. And he's a creative team of storytellers who share their passion for helping people live a story worth telling and serving them with excellence and genuine high trust relationships. And Storybuilders Christian tells stories that makes the world a better place by creating compelling books and learning experiences that turn ideas into greater impact, influence, and income. Spencer Horn 02:22 - 03:01 And Bill himself is a multiple New York Times and USA best-selling writer. And Bill and his team work with a variety of influencers like John C. Maxwell at Maxwell Leadership, Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank, Lewis Howes, Dean Graziosi, if you know who that is, big names, Michael Hyatt from Full Focus, Zig Ziglar and Family, Jeff Allen, Jason Wilson, entrepreneurs and corporate leaders and business coaches and consultants, political figures, cultural voices, athletes, comedians, fitness gurus, psychologists, and even faith leaders. Spencer Horn 03:01 - 03:28 And some of the largest churches of America, those faith leaders are using these tools to really write their books and really develop the resources and experiences that this team has to help them create an impact on millions of people around the world. And this team, led by Bill, is just getting started. Bill, welcome to Teamwork a Better Way. Bill Blankschaen 03:28 - 03:38 Oh, Spencer, Christian, my privilege to be here. I love talking to you guys. I'd love to get in on that lunch action you've got going on, too, on your account. It sounds delicious. Christian Napier 03:38 - 03:42 Yeah, next time you're out here skiing or whatever, come pay us a visit. Spencer Horn 03:42 - 03:53 I travel all over the world. I've had Mexican food in many places around the world. And for some reason, nobody does a mole. They have like, what, eight different kinds of moles, Christian? Christian Napier 03:53 - 03:58 Yeah, and then they, you know, periodically have some seasonal ones or some special ones. Spencer Horn 03:58 - 04:09 But nobody does it like these folks. And of course, you know, Abuela in Mexico would probably do it better. It's hard for us to find that. Anyway, you're welcome anytime. Spencer Horn 04:09 - 04:30 And I'm so excited. When I got introduced to you, you and I had an opportunity to talk. And one of the things that we really talked about is the impact of storytelling from a leadership and team development perspective. But before we jump to that, let's just set a little groundwork, if you don't mind. Spencer Horn 04:30 - 04:48 Talk to us about what, What inspired you to create storytellers? Or even write, I've got your book that you sent me and I'm so grateful for that. What inspired you to write your story advantage? And I've been reading this and have some questions out of that, but where did this start? Spencer Horn 04:48 - 04:49 What's the genesis? Bill Blankschaen 04:49 - 05:13 Well, there was a time in my previous life where I was leading a private school, helped found a private school, was leading that K4 through 12. And I was doing good work. I was getting hugs from kindergartners every day and guiding teenagers through life choices and doing those things. But at the same time, I'd always thought of myself as a writer, but I wasn't writing. Bill Blankschaen 05:13 - 05:45 I always thought of myself as a storyteller, but I wasn't telling stories. And so eventually I had to reach the place where I realized if I don't do something with that passion within me and that skill, that I'm going to look back years from now and regret it. And so I chose to step away from that school, step out into this space, really driven by passion of doing what I love to do. And we went we had six kids at the time we went a year with no income but i never worked harder in my life. Bill Blankschaen 05:46 - 06:13 And you know i talked to people in the publishing industry everybody who knew anything in storytelling i put together a book proposals and shop those and got feedback on those really became a student of the science and the art of storytelling. And it wasn't easy, that's for sure. You know, I remember one time I was sitting out, this was in Ohio, I was sitting out in a beautiful spring day, sun shining, birds chirping. And I'm writing some ideas for a book. Bill Blankschaen 06:13 - 06:27 And on the outside is a beautiful setting. And on the inside, though, I got to tell you, every fear I could imagine was roiling over there. Is this going to work? Are we going to fall flat on our face? Bill Blankschaen 06:27 - 06:43 Are we going to end up all these kids sleeping in cardboard boxes under a freeway bridge somewhere? But I kept moving forward. And as I did so, in fact, the book I was working on at that time ended up getting picked up by a publisher. I wrote the book, and I realized I'm actually really good at this. Bill Blankschaen 06:44 - 06:58 Other people began asking me for help, began helping them with their books and their stories. And one thing led to another. And before you know it, StoryBuilders came to life. And as you said, we work with all sorts of big names and names you haven't heard of yet, people who are building brands and businesses and identities. Bill Blankschaen 06:59 - 07:32 But what I learned from that My big takeaway was that my breakthrough began when I started with my story. And I think that's true for everyone, that your breakthrough begins when you have the courage to start with your story and tap into your story. And from that, then learn how to tell your story and stories well. to build your brand, to build your business as a speaker, whatever that might look like, whatever your calling is, stories empower everything to move faster. Bill Blankschaen 07:32 - 07:36 So that's a little bit of kind of how I got started going in this direction. Spencer Horn 07:37 - 07:50 You know, sorry, one one follow up, if you don't mind, Christian, you know, there's a lot of people listening to this thing. Great, how does this apply to me? Because I never had a story in my life that I think's worth telling. I've never climbed Mount Everest. Spencer Horn 07:51 - 08:04 I never got stuck in a canyon and had to cut off my arm. I never had to run a marathon with prosthetic legs. Do you understand what I'm saying? I mean, so many of us think that our stories are pedestrian. Spencer Horn 08:05 - 08:11 Our stories are everyday life. What do you think is holding people back from telling their stories? Bill Blankschaen 08:11 - 08:38 Well, I think there's a number of things that hold people back, but to your question, I call it the connection continuum. So if you think about this, this continuum from left to right, A lot of people think if my story isn't radically fresh, if it isn't something shocking and full of awe, then it's not a good story. But in fact, we have a hard time connecting to people who have those stories. Somebody who, you know, had to cut their arm off on Mount Everest, right? Bill Blankschaen 08:38 - 08:50 I'm like, I'm like, I am never going to climb Mount Everest. So I don't know why you would. So I have immediate disconnect. On the other hand, though, you've got stories that are very familiar. Bill Blankschaen 08:50 - 09:11 And what happens is when the story is too fresh, you feel a disconnect. But when the story is too familiar, you feel like it's just duplication. And what you need is to find that just right place in the middle, a little bit fresh, a little bit familiar. And so people need to realize that You don't have to have something nobody's ever heard of. Bill Blankschaen 09:11 - 09:26 In fact, you need something that does feel like people have heard of it. And yet it has your unique twist, your unique story, your unique experiences with that. And this is the advantage that everybody has because all of us have that. All of us have that unique advantage. Bill Blankschaen 09:27 - 09:49 And so it feeling familiar is actually a good thing because it promotes connection with other people. And I think a lot of times people hold back because they think it feels too normal. I call this the normalcy trap. You know, we tend to think my story feels normal to me, so nobody else will value it, my body of wisdom that I've accumulated over the years and so forth. Bill Blankschaen 09:50 - 10:10 But in fact, that's the very thing that will help someone when we put that out there, right? So we, we have to, we overcome that by just being willing to share that and make that point. And then when you see the light bulbs come on, people and they connect with you, then you realize, you begin to realize that there's something of value there that opens the door for learning and growth. Christian Napier 10:12 - 10:48 Alright, so at risk of derailing the conversation, I want to go back to you and your story. So you mentioned You were in this situation and running a school, a private school, but your passion was for writing. I'm curious where it came from. Where did this passion and storytelling, this desire to share through the written word stories, where did that come from originally for you? Christian Napier 10:48 - 11:09 And then the second part of the question is, What gave you the strength or the courage to make the pivot? Because that's a scary thing for people to do. You know, especially when you have obligations, you mentioned, I've got six children, I have a family that relies on me. That's not always an easy decision. Spencer Horn 11:09 - 11:12 So it's kind of what you- Six children at a time, we don't know how many he has now. Christian Napier 11:13 - 11:27 Yeah, where did that originate from? This desire to write, to document, share stories, where did that come from originally? And then what was it that gave you the courage to take the leap off the cliff? Bill Blankschaen 11:28 - 11:44 Yeah, well, when I was growing up, I was always the weird kid who read everything. At the breakfast table, I'm literally turning the breakfast cereal box around five times, reading every word on it. And I just thought that was normal. I would absorb books, and then I would write stories. Bill Blankschaen 11:44 - 11:57 And I just thought everybody can do that. And as I got older, I did my undergrad in English and history. What are the stories, and how do we tell them? But then life happened, right? Bill Blankschaen 11:57 - 12:08 And it was like, all right, I'm getting married. I've got to pay the bills. And so I went into education, helped start the school, and so forth. And so there was always this kind of hardwired into me. Bill Blankschaen 12:08 - 12:24 Now, it took me a long time to realize that's what it was. And I think all of us have that. All of us have these unique hardwirings that are into us. Some of it has been shaped by the relationships we've had as well and encouraged or discouraged, as the case may be. Bill Blankschaen 12:24 - 12:57 Um, and so for me, it was really coming to the realization of, I did a deep dive into who I was. You know, I took every assessment I could find Marcus Buckingham, strength finder and disc and all these different tools and really came to understand some of my strength areas, my unique value that I brought to the world. And out of that came this realization that I was at my best when I was creatively questioning, connecting, and communicating, often in the context of my beliefs. But I realized I wasn't really doing it that much. Bill Blankschaen 12:58 - 13:18 And that goes to your second part of your question. I think that's where the courage to do that came from. It was, well, if this is who I am, then I need to live in a way that's consistent with who I am. I've always been, I've always strove for authenticity, that what you see is what you get, and it's real, and it's genuine. Bill Blankschaen 13:18 - 13:51 And so if this is who I am, and this is the best value I can bring to the world, I didn't feel comfortable with leaving that value out there, like and doing something else and just running out the clock, as it were. So I think I think it came from, I think whenever we make significant changes, there's both push factors and pull factors. And the push factors for me was kind of, I was in a situation where in the education cycle, it's the same thing every year. You know, you actually want consistency. Bill Blankschaen 13:51 - 14:01 You want to do that. And that was getting kind of boring for me, actually. And at the same time, there was the pull factor. I want to be a writer. Bill Blankschaen 14:01 - 14:09 I want to be a storyteller. I want to do those things. That's pulling me. And I didn't feel like, hey, kids' lives are on the line. Bill Blankschaen 14:10 - 14:18 And so anybody in that position should not be feeling bored, right? You can't afford to be bored. You need to be vigilant. You need to be on the ball in that. Bill Blankschaen 14:18 - 14:31 And so I really felt like, all right, this isn't a great place to be for any of us. I need to step out and go this new direction, even though I didn't have any idea how it was all going to turn out at the time. Spencer Horn 14:34 - 14:46 So those are just taking a leap. And when you have that passion and you're so excited about it, it helps you to push through and be excited. So I apologize. Bill Blankschaen 14:47 - 14:57 Yeah, I would add to that, Spencer. It isn't just taking a leap, not for me. It was, I think I see a path that I can follow. And so I stepped out in that path. Bill Blankschaen 14:57 - 15:06 Now, once I got down that path a little bit, I realized, that's not the path, actually. There's another path and there's another path, but that's important. Spencer Horn 15:06 - 15:10 You didn't, you didn't wait till the path was completely clear. Yeah. Bill Blankschaen 15:10 - 15:14 You know, I've said this to step out and take the first day. Christian Napier 15:14 - 15:14 Yeah. Spencer Horn 15:14 - 15:25 I've said this many, many, many times, those World War II historians, you know, Patton said, a good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan next week. Christian Napier 15:25 - 15:29 So take action and you can adjust and go in a different direction as you need to. Spencer Horn 15:30 - 15:51 So how do you define storytelling really? Story worth telling, you know, let's talk about that. How do you define a story worth telling? You know, we talk about people need to find that story that's fresh and at the same time that is somewhat relatable to other people. Spencer Horn 15:51 - 16:09 But how do you define that? How do I start taking my stories that are happening to me that I feel I can make a difference, and especially in the context of leadership and business? And that's really where we want to transition to here. Yeah. Bill Blankschaen 16:09 - 16:33 Well, when we think about it, Mark Twain said something. His opinion was that we're all like soap bubbles. And we are like bubbles that sparkle in the sun for a minute and then we pop and that's it. And first of all, I would suggest don't invite Mark Twain to your party because he's kind of a downer in that perspective. Bill Blankschaen 16:34 - 16:56 But I feel like a lot of people live soap bubble lives. They kind of drift and they float and then it's over. And I think leaning into our story positions us to live a story worth telling and lead others to do great good in the world as well. So it's about being intentional in many ways about that story. Bill Blankschaen 16:56 - 17:42 And when we do that, especially as leaders, We kind of harness this superpower because all of us are wired to be drawn to storytelling. It's innately in the human DNA, if you will, of being captivated by a story. And so when leaders learn how to harness that well, not only are they making the world a better place and pulling people toward a better vision, But they're actually increasing their chances of success, increasing chances for their business success, because they're tapping into something very deep within humanity. And they're opening doors for people to be more receptive to their message that often we're not even realizing that are closed. Bill Blankschaen 17:42 - 18:02 I think a lot of leaders approach sharing a message or communicating something, and they think, this is the message I want to share. I'll just share it. Without any context of, am I giving a story in which to give context to the people I'm leading, to understand the value of that? Am I giving any attention to the people I'm leading? Bill Blankschaen 18:03 - 18:09 What matters to them? This message matters to me, but does it matter to them? Have I even thought through that? Have I laid that out in that way? Bill Blankschaen 18:10 - 18:24 And that's why I really created the storytelling structure. I almost feel like I didn't create the storytelling structure. It kind of revealed itself to me as I studied story after story after story after story and wrote all these. It kind of percolated at the top of this. Bill Blankschaen 18:24 - 18:37 This is a five-part structure that anybody can use to make any message matter that weaves story into that message to make it more powerful, more connectable, and truly to make the world a better place. Spencer Horn 18:50 - 19:11 Well, you've, you know, you talked about this five steps and we'll come back to that in a minute. I would love for you to give an example of what you're talking about, of a leader just blurting out. And what went through my mind when you were talking about that, as I said, you know, that's me as a leader. What happens is I'm like, I have this thought I need to share right now. Spencer Horn 19:11 - 19:35 And quite often, I share it, and it's out of context, and people are not getting the perspective that I actually want them to get. So immediately, I get resistance and pushback. And in my mind, what I want to share is clear. And what I'm thinking is people are saying, well, I have something I need to share because I'm in a hurry to get things done. Spencer Horn 19:35 - 19:48 It's about efficiency and productivity. I don't have time to stop and analyze every message I want to share with some five-point program. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm being devil's advocate. How do you respond to the leader that's hearing that? Bill Blankschaen 19:49 - 20:03 Yeah, well, I think, first of all, once you begin practicing the five-point program, it becomes second nature. You begin thinking, all right, well, it really is simple. It's thinking through these big points. Let me give you an example from my own leadership experience. Bill Blankschaen 20:04 - 20:32 There have been some seasons in our growth that we knew that, all right, we're going to have to, we're preparing for growth before the growth gets here. And I could just say that to the team and say, Hey, guys, we're anticipating some growth, we're gonna be hiring some things, we're doing some changes, it's going to be a little bit uncertainty what that's going to happen, but we need to step out and try our best. But instead, I stepped back and said, Alright, what is it that they are wanting? What is it that that's concerning them? Bill Blankschaen 20:32 - 21:01 And then what are the challenges they're facing? And then what is there a story from my own experience that I could pull into this to help them understand I've been here, I've done this, I know the way forward. And in that situation, I often turn to a story that was part of that that year, when I had left the school and was working harder than ever, but not making any money yet. And the story is this, we had a John Deere backhoe tractor, a huge tractor that was in our backyard across a creek. Bill Blankschaen 21:01 - 21:09 And it had been left there by the previous owner. I'm not mechanical. I couldn't get it to work. And so we were trying to get money any way we could. Bill Blankschaen 21:09 - 21:21 And I was literally sitting out there one day thinking about that, looking at that, and actually praying that God would help us to sell that thing for $1,000. I thought, I don't know anything about this stuff. I'm like, it'd be great to get $1,000. But I had a problem. Bill Blankschaen 21:21 - 21:41 It didn't run, and it had to get across this creek, and I had no way of doing that. This was on a Thursday. I'm sitting out there praying about that, thinking about that, and I had this thought impressed upon me. If you want that thing to get out of here in two days, it's going to have to go over a bridge that we had that went over the creek. Bill Blankschaen 21:42 - 21:58 That bridge was not strong enough to bear the weight of that going over there. I'm like, if you want that, you're going to have to brace that bridge. And so I actually went out there in the water. We braced it, got rocks under it and supports under it. Bill Blankschaen 21:58 - 22:21 Again, I had no idea how this tractor was going to get across. I had no idea. But I'm like, if that's the objective I want, I have to do the work now to prepare for that to take place. Long story short two days later that thing left our property for a thousand dollars and it went across that bridge that i had braced it had to be dragged across but it went across and i always share that with the team and i'm sure that so many times Bill Blankschaen 22:21 - 22:32 we call it the brace the bridge story so it's like hey when we're preparing for growth. And we know that's going to happen. All I have to say is, well, I think we need to brace the bridge. And immediately, that story connects. Bill Blankschaen 22:32 - 22:38 And it becomes alive to them that, ah, yes, that's what we need to do. All right, let's get our hands dirty. Let's do the work. Let's get prepared for this. Bill Blankschaen 22:38 - 22:58 Because it's wishful thinking to think about growth in this direction. But what that really means is we have some work to do. Prepare for that to come. And so that's just one example of, I think, leaders developing the habit of thinking, Uh, well, first of all, flipping it around, we can talk more about this, flipping it around to think, who am I talking to? Bill Blankschaen 22:58 - 23:04 And then what story can I pull in to bring this to life, to illustrate my message, to show, not tell. Spencer Horn 23:13 - 23:38 I love that example because you're actually saving time in the long run once you've told the story because you use that as an anchor for culture development and how we do things around here. The story actually frames our actions and our behavior. If you put the time in to say, how do I want people to behave around here? That speaks to your focusing on your audience. Spencer Horn 23:38 - 23:46 And so for those of you who are listening and thinking, this is going to take me a lot of time, it's actually going to save you time based on your example. Bill Blankschaen 23:46 - 23:51 Exactly, because my thought is if you don't provide the story context, people will provide their own story context. Spencer Horn 23:51 - 23:52 Oh, yes. Bill Blankschaen 23:52 - 24:03 Instead of having a shared story, you've got 10, 15, 20 different stories, depending on the size of your team that they're plugging that into rather than here's our shared story that we're gathered around. Spencer Horn 24:03 - 24:06 Well, now we're talking to teamwork here, right, Christian? Absolutely. Christian Napier 24:06 - 24:14 OK, I've been waiting for this. So now I'm going to ask it. I've building blocks here to stories. Right. Christian Napier 24:14 - 24:29 So You kind of teased a little bit earlier, but I'd like to get into the meat of it now. What are these five kind of building blocks or facets or whatever dimensions, whatever you want to call it, to effective storytelling? Bill Blankschaen 24:30 - 24:45 Yeah, well, the storytelling structure breaks down to these five elements. And again, they're not complicated. We just need to remember them. All of them are built around the premise that your story is about you, but your story is not for you. Bill Blankschaen 24:45 - 25:06 And so the storytelling structure begins with taking the lens off myself as the speaker, as the voice, as the messenger, and putting it on the audience, the customer, the team, whoever it is I'm speaking to. So it begins, step one is attention. How do I get their attention? And the way you get anybody's attention is to tap into what do they really want. Bill Blankschaen 25:07 - 25:17 And so actually giving intentional thought around that, what does my team want? What do my customers really want? What does my audience really want? Whatever that looks like, what do they really want? Bill Blankschaen 25:18 - 25:31 And after you give some thought to that and get clarity on it, the next question, next step is tension, attention, tension. This is where the problems enter. What's holding them back from getting what they want? What are the challenges they have? Bill Blankschaen 25:31 - 25:44 What are the barriers they have? And any good story has to have tension or it's not a good story. That story, even the story I shared a minute ago with the Brace the Bridge story, it was, all right, I'm in this predicament. How am I going to? Bill Blankschaen 25:44 - 25:47 I want this. I want that. I'm stuck. What am I going to do? Bill Blankschaen 25:48 - 26:09 And then I found the way forward. So tension is about the problem. And I think as leaders, we tend to want to avoid problems or not talk about problems or gloss over them. Instead, we have to be real with ourselves and realize what are those challenges, and then be able to communicate effectively to our audience that we understand those challenges. Bill Blankschaen 26:09 - 26:24 This is the third point that comes in, connection. This is when you, as the messenger, the voice, the storyteller, are now connecting with your audience and what they want and what their challenges are. First of all, establishing that empathy. I know I get it. Bill Blankschaen 26:24 - 26:29 And I could do that with my team in that situation. I could say, I get it. I've been there. I've done that. Bill Blankschaen 26:29 - 26:56 I know what it's like to feel that uncertainty, to not know how it's all going to turn out, and still have to get in and do the work. And then but i found a way forward this is that credential side i can actually show you a way forward to this. So now the people listening to your story are know that you get what i want you know what my problems are and you understood it and you found a way forward what is the way forward and this leads us to number four which is solution what is my solution. Bill Blankschaen 26:56 - 27:24 Now this is where most people start they started step four with their this is my solution this is my message this is my idea this is my whatever i'm trying to put whether i'm in a brand story for my business from writing a book i'm building out other assets they start here. I think everybody cares about what i have to say. No, no, you have to establish the context, establish the story, bring it to that point where they are now open to hearing it and wanting to hear it. Bill Blankschaen 27:24 - 28:05 And then you can share that in an intentional way that it still needs to be designed to resonate with your audience. I remember i was working in a workshop with an entrepreneur business that had a second generation business very successful and they had a solution frame they had all that kind of stuff laid out but what they didn't have. And the light bulb came on for them was they weren't talking about their solution in language that aligned with what their audience and customers really wanted. And so having that thought and they were able to retool and rename it so their customers would resonate more quickly with their solution so that solution partisan before the final step is action. Bill Blankschaen 28:05 - 28:14 What do you want people to do with what you shared. So that's the story that I shared about bracing the bridge. What do I want people to do with that? Well, I've called them to action. Bill Blankschaen 28:14 - 28:19 Let's come together and let's brace the bridge. This is our strategy. Here's what we're going to do. Let's roll it out. Bill Blankschaen 28:20 - 28:42 But you don't want to just assume that people know what to do with what you share. They're now looking to you as the expert, the voice of expertise. And when we guide people through that process, we then can leverage our wisdom to point them in the direction that they need to go to do what needs to be done. And this structure can be used, again, a simple messaging. Bill Blankschaen 28:42 - 29:07 We actually have a free resource that's just a one pager that someone can say, hey, I want to make my message matter. And it just gives them a quick framework to work through in a couple minutes to lay that out before they communicate something. But it can be used with your brand story your books we use it we use it everywhere to really create compelling storytelling because this is how we tend to think of storytelling anyways we tend to think of. Hey i wanted something and then i couldn't get it there is a problem. Bill Blankschaen 29:07 - 29:28 But then this person was able to help me these people came along and help me do this and i saw a solution i went for it and i achieve the success cuz i took the action to get it there right so. This is a whole body of storytelling distilled down to what I think is kind of its bare essence of actually something we can actually use on a regular basis. Spencer Horn 29:42 - 30:09 As you're walking through those five steps, I was sharing a story in my mind about how I understand that and why it's important. Christian talks about all the time what makes music exciting to listen to. And there's actually tension in music where there's discord, right? And that's the tension that you're talking about in step three. Spencer Horn 30:10 - 30:28 But what makes music so pleasing is the resolve of that tension. You've got this music and then all of a sudden you've got a dissonance and then a resolve. And that makes people, oh, let's get to that resolution. It seems like it makes it more accepting. Spencer Horn 30:28 - 30:30 Is that an equivalent? Christian Napier 30:30 - 30:33 I mean, Christian, did I say that right? Bill Blankschaen 30:35 - 30:52 Yeah, it certainly is. And when you put those ideas together as a body of work, it becomes a symphony, you know, and suddenly now you have, you know, Beethoven's fifth. You know, now you're branded. Now when I say that, we know what that is, right? Bill Blankschaen 30:52 - 31:18 We have an understanding of what that is. That is really a good example in the musical space of what I call intellectual property. I mean, that's putting these ideas, putting them together in a way that's tension resolved, putting them in a cohesive system, and then getting them labeled as something that can be presented to the world. That's where I think a lot of entrepreneurs, business leaders, they have these ideas within them and these messages within them, but they're kind of scattered. Bill Blankschaen 31:18 - 31:28 And that's what we love to do is help them get clear on those and then find ways to communicate them effectively, that people then look at it as a body of work that I want to hear more from this person about it. Spencer Horn 31:28 - 31:47 So I mean, I could see the value of an organization, leaders within an organization saying, what are our stories? What are the stories that our team says about us? And being intentional about creating internal stories. Is that something that you work with or do? Spencer Horn 31:47 - 31:48 It is. Bill Blankschaen 31:49 - 32:04 Getting back to, first of all, their origin story. Does everyone on the team know the origin story? And is it the same story, or is it told differently every time and no one's really sure what it is exactly? But capturing that origin story, and then internally, what are the internal stories that we tell ourselves? Bill Blankschaen 32:04 - 32:11 Those could then get used in onboarding. Those get used on a regular basis for culture building. That's part of that. That's the internal side. Bill Blankschaen 32:11 - 32:41 But then the external side is, how do you present that to customers? Again because things that are important on the inside might not be important customers right so your stories about you but not for you and you have to go through this this constant editing process this is where i think. My experience as a writer and editor really help in this because a lot of times the most important thing is not what you say but what you leave out. What gets edited to to really focus it and a good book is one that has been well edited. Bill Blankschaen 32:41 - 33:09 Working on a project right now a lot of good content right now the author so passionate about all the different parts and pieces of it i gotta keep telling him hey that's great i love it but that's not what the reader wants in this book let's put that aside and save it for another venue or some other way to talk about that because it's just going to distract. from what the reader really needs to hear in this book to make the most impact. So if our goal is impact with our team, with our customers, then I think we have to get intentional about story. Bill Blankschaen 33:09 - 33:11 And yeah, absolutely, that's what we help people do all the time. Christian Napier 33:12 - 33:46 Yeah, one of the things that I was struck by, not only as you were talking about the five structural elements here, was the efficiency with which you personally share a story. You shared the bridge story in probably 60 seconds. I mean, that went really fast. So you basically went through the five steps in a minute in sharing that story. Christian Napier 33:46 - 34:38 And one of the things that came to my mind as you were going through the five steps is, relates to what you just said, which is I have so much to share. And you may get attention at the beginning, you may have the tension thing in there, but we as individuals get distracted and then that connection, that third part never happens. because we start wandering down all of these paths, these tangents, they really aren't germane to the story. I mean, you could have, if you wanted, you could have spent 10 minutes on the backstory of how you bought the tractor, and how long you used the tractor, and stories about the family using the tractor. Christian Napier 34:38 - 35:02 But at the end of the day, that was probably, I mean, it's relevant to you, but probably doesn't really matter to us as the audience. I'm curious, you know, about the process that you use to go through with leaders to focus on the things that really matter. I actually think this goes beyond storytelling. I think this goes beyond running an organization, leading a team, whatever it is. Christian Napier 35:03 - 35:33 How do you keep your aspiring authors, your entrepreneurs, your leaders focused on the things that really matter and not getting distracted. You talked about it from an editing standpoint, like here I got this book and you've got 2,000 pages of ideas here and that's not gonna work. So I'm just curious about that process a little bit because I think it's relevant not just from a storytelling perspective but also just from a leadership perspective. We spend a lot of time on the things that really don't matter in the end. Bill Blankschaen 35:33 - 35:48 Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And anybody who's on a team who has a leader, whenever I talk about this in workshops and so forth, I say, does anybody have leaders that like to tell stories? And every hand goes up. I said, how effective are they at telling stories? Bill Blankschaen 35:48 - 35:57 And eyes start to roll. They tell the same story 100 times. And every time, it goes off course. It goes into the weeds. Bill Blankschaen 35:57 - 36:17 And everybody's just kind of yawning and wondering, all right, here we go again. But there has to be a conciseness to the stories. And I think it does come down to this being willing to self-edit, not just your stories, but your leadership. We talk a lot about how leadership is about service, servant leadership, and serving others, and so forth. Bill Blankschaen 36:17 - 36:30 But we don't always practice that. And when we are telling a story, we have to be actively editing that. Is this relevant to them? Like you said, it may be relevant to me. Bill Blankschaen 36:30 - 36:41 Maybe I had a special memory with my son around that and so forth. But it didn't support the story. And so therefore, if I'm going to serve the audience well, I have to cut that out. I have to leave that to the side. Bill Blankschaen 36:41 - 36:58 And so in order to do that, though, I think we actually, first of all, we have to be intentional on the front end. Because if we don't go in with a plan, That's when we get very, very, oh, I'm distracted by this, or I'm gonna go down this road, or I'm gonna talk about this. And that reminds me of Uncle Joe. He had a tractor too, you know? Bill Blankschaen 36:59 - 37:28 And we could easily end up far afield. But giving intentional thought ahead of time, this is where that one pager that we created, Can help people to really just pencil that out ahead of time and then stick to the script not not word for word but stick to the plan stick to it and now that i know i've been intentional about it. I feel comfortable staying true to that because i know i've thought through why i'm sharing what i'm sharing what i'm not sharing. Bill Blankschaen 37:28 - 38:04 A lot of times with leaders we don't go into it, we tend to wing it and then we end up all over the place and scattered and wondering why our message didn't resonate and land. Because you introduced a thousand different elements that every person in that room ran with each one of those and all kinds of directions by the time you got your main point they weren't even listening. It may be looking like it but they were they were thinking about their own memories of uncle joe and their tractors and who knows what right so keeping it focused i think there's tremendous power in that for our leadership in our storytelling of course but even broader in our in our leadership. Spencer Horn 38:05 - 38:20 So you've given some great advice. You've given us a five-step framework for a good story. What makes a good story? You've actually shared with us a mistake that a lot of storytellers do, and that is start with the payoff or the resolve right at the beginning. Spencer Horn 38:20 - 38:39 And so stop doing that and frame it properly. My question is, how do we find the stories? You know, you talked about the tractor, but I mean, can all stories be relevant? I mean, how do we start choosing the stories and at what point? Spencer Horn 38:39 - 38:57 I mean, we have an issue that we need to share with our team. Do we go back in our file somewhere? that we've created, or do we say, okay, what's the story that I can write? Or do we just find any story and say, how can I make this story make sense with the situation? Bill Blankschaen 38:58 - 39:23 Does my question make sense? It certainly does. I mean, you could, one thing, like John Maxwell, for example, has famously kept meticulous files of stories on paper over the decades as he's come across a story, files it, and then he has his own system for When I need a story about that topic, I'll cross-reference. I used to do some of that with Evernote and different apps and things like that, and it just got too cumbersome for me. Bill Blankschaen 39:23 - 39:58 It might work for somebody else. But I would say this, because this is the same process we use when we're actually creating a book and we need to find a story. And it begins with this is what is the main message that you want to share get clear on that first gets that succinctly this is if i if i could only in fact i take this question this is one of our book starter questions. If someone read my book and listened to my message and walked away and forgot everything but one thing, what would I want that one thing to be? Bill Blankschaen 39:58 - 40:02 What would I want to stick? And that usually- That's in the book, folks. Spencer Horn 40:02 - 40:04 That question right there is in the book. Bill Blankschaen 40:05 - 40:17 Absolutely, absolutely. But leaders can use it not just for writing books, but their message. What is the one thing? And if they forget everything else I'm about to say, they remember that one thing, then you can go to the next step. Bill Blankschaen 40:17 - 40:31 Once you get clear on that one thing, you think, all right, what is a story that would illustrate that one thing, that would bring that one thing to life? Has there been something that has happened to me? Have I seen something? Have I had an experience? Bill Blankschaen 40:31 - 40:46 Have I heard a story that lands that one point that illustrates that one point. We call that your signature story, right? So in a book concept, right? So your main message, your signature story needs to bring that to life. Bill Blankschaen 40:46 - 41:01 And sometimes it could be a personal one. Sometimes it could be another one. Now, the reality is most stories, they can be bent and molded in different directions to emphasize different points. Any given story You know, that story about the tractor, I could have made it about, oh, that's about the power of prayer. Bill Blankschaen 41:02 - 41:18 It's the power about reflective thinking or the power of taking action. Or we could have gone different ways with a whole bunch of different things. But that main message is going to determine it. And then you can reach into your story vault, if you will, or recollection of stories or anything like that. Bill Blankschaen 41:18 - 41:37 And if all else fails at that point, we have this wonderful tool called AI. And if you say, hey, I'm looking for a story that illustrates this point, generate, you know, a bunch of ideas for me. This is what, you know, pastors often do in their sermons in churches and so forth, right? There's whole entire repositories about stories that are out there to illustrate this. Bill Blankschaen 41:38 - 41:51 So it doesn't have to if you think if you're thinking, I'm not a great storyteller, I don't have this. But first of all, you have more stories than you think, because you have a life of experiences to tap into. And those are valuable. A lot of leaders undervalue those stories. Bill Blankschaen 41:51 - 42:15 but you can include those stories, but then you can also just do some searches with some basic tools to get ideas. And often, even when you do that, that'll help spark other ideas and recall things that have actually happened to you or your company or your business to be able to put that into motion. But it begins with getting clear on that message, because if you don't know what you're trying to bring to life, then any old story, I guess, will do because it won't accomplish what you want. Christian Napier 42:26 - 42:47 Okay, so one of the questions that I've got for you on the five steps is how do you find balance between tension and solution? One of the things, Spencer mentioned the thing that I missed out on in Cyprus and Lebanon. I ended up having to do the presentation virtually, but one of the things, the presentation was on story. Spencer Horn 42:47 - 42:51 That was off screen, folks. We were talking in the green room. Christian Napier 42:54 - 43:08 Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the point is, if you kind of boil it down to its very simplest point, story is about struggle and solution. And if all you're doing is talking about struggle, you're complaining. Christian Napier 43:08 - 43:24 And if all you're doing is talking about solution, then you're bragging. And both of those are kind of me first focused. And people can tell that right away. And what that shows is that maybe that person's not really genuine, authentic. Christian Napier 43:24 - 43:38 You mentioned authenticity being so important. So I feel like you have to strike the right balance between tension and solution. And so what advice do you give to people to strike that balance so they're not focusing too much on the struggle and they're not focusing too much on the solution? Bill Blankschaen 43:39 - 44:14 Well, I don't know that I would use the word balance because that implies almost like you need half and half, equal value, equal amounts. But I think it entirely depends on the circumstances of how much you need and so forth. So for example, if I'm writing a book in chapter one, I'm gonna talk more about the tension, more about the challenges because I want people to begin to feel some of that pain of, oh yeah, I am feeling that. And then i'm gonna talk about the solution but they're gonna feel more little almost more more half and half in the opening chapter. Bill Blankschaen 44:15 - 44:38 But as we go through the book i'm gonna be leaning more into the solution and less into the tension because i've already established the problem that we're trying to solve that will go into micro problems and so forth and micro tensions and so forth as we go through but. So it kind of depends on when we're talking about it and who we're talking to and what setting. So again, it comes back to keep the focus on your audience. Bill Blankschaen 44:38 - 44:51 Who are you talking to? What do they need? Right? If you're in a workshop where they have shown up, somebody has shown up because it's like, this workshop is about dealing with this problem. Bill Blankschaen 44:51 - 45:01 All right, well, I'll spend a few minutes at the outset talking about affirming the problem and making sure we're on the same page. But the bulk of the workshop, I'm going to spend on the solution. How do you fix this? How do we do that? Bill Blankschaen 45:01 - 45:11 And I'll set it up and frame it. But at the same time, I'll focus more on that. So I think the answer, I think, depends on the context. And again, it causes we have to think about who are we talking to? Bill Blankschaen 45:11 - 45:18 What do they want? What do they need? What are the challenges they face? How do I connect with them in order to establish that? Bill Blankschaen 45:18 - 45:32 So there isn't an answer to that. But in every situation, do this, this. You have to actually evaluate the situation and think, what actually works for my audience? Again, flipping that around. Bill Blankschaen 45:32 - 45:41 Your story's about you, but it's not for you. Flip that around and think of them first. How am I serving them well? And let that be your guiding principle. Spencer Horn 45:44 - 46:07 My team, we do a team diagnostic with organizations all around the world. And we assess the team. And based on their own evaluation of the team, behaviors that show up that have to do with, you know, that relate to productivity on the team. And then the other behaviors are what allow that productivity to sustain, which are the positivity measures. Spencer Horn 46:08 - 46:39 And what happens that that gets in the way of those positivity measures are what Dr. John Gottman called toxins, right? Team toxins, you know, blame and defensiveness and contempt and all those kinds of things. And so instead of just talking about them, Christian and Bill, we actually do an exercise and those behaviors automatically come out and they're like, oh my gosh, we just did all those things and then we actually We have those four toxins and we actually flavor them. We sample them. Spencer Horn 46:39 - 46:53 What do we feel like? What's our body language? So we physically embody what it is that we're doing when we're blaming or showing contempt or stonewalling or whatever it is. And then we're like, how does this feel? Spencer Horn 46:53 - 47:06 Are you guys ready to get out of this? And then we give the antidote. Here's the antidote and here's how you resolve that. But sometimes sitting in that for a while, helps people really understand the impact they're having as a leader. Spencer Horn 47:07 - 47:12 And I think that's really, really powerful. And you're right, I don't know what that balance is, but I sure like the question. Bill Blankschaen 47:14 - 47:20 I'm really struggling with, go ahead, sorry. Well, I was gonna say, I think the important thing is you're asking the question. Spencer Horn 47:20 - 47:21 Yeah. Bill Blankschaen 47:21 - 47:30 And a lot of leaders don't even ask the question, right? Right. And to being, again, having that story- That's how thoughtful Christian is, Bill. He's just, he- I know, oh, that's amazing. Spencer Horn 47:31 - 47:52 As you're talking about doing a book writing, I have a 10-year, this is not an exaggeration, I have a 10-year process for my book. It's basically written. And for the last two years, I am struggling with it in edited form and not getting the blankety blank thing done because it's hard. I've tried to focus. Spencer Horn 47:52 - 48:16 Anyway, I'm glad you're creating a framework that really helps people. I know you're actually going to come talk to a group of mine about how to find their story. My last question before hopefully yours, Christian, and that is, how does someone start to craft their story to really have them stand out? Because you talk about, I mean, the title of this is influence through personal narrative. Spencer Horn 48:16 - 48:27 How do I start to create my brand, my Beethoven's Fifth, my personal brand that helps me to stand out in a crowded marketplace? Bill Blankschaen 48:27 - 48:36 Yeah, well, first thing you do is get the book, Your Story Advantage. I mean, that's why it's designed for people to walk through, build your story ecosystem as a whole process. Spencer Horn 48:36 - 48:39 And can we get that worksheet you talked about? Bill Blankschaen 48:39 - 48:52 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um, well, first of all, there's links in the book to get it, but you can also get it by just going to your story advantage.com forward slash free resources. And there's a bunch of free resources on there. Bill Blankschaen 48:52 - 49:04 And one of those is the worksheet. So absolutely. Um, but I think here's where it begins. I think the starting point, if you're asking about a starting point, it begins on getting clear on what I call your meaningful message. Bill Blankschaen 49:04 - 49:35 Think about that, that, uh, story focus question I shared a minute ago, what's the one thing And if someone's thinking, oh, I just want to get started, maybe people have told me I should write a book or I'm building my brand or whatever that looks like, give some thought to what is the one thing that if I left this world five years from now, what would I want people to have remember from me? What's the one thing that, man, if you forget everything else, don't forget this. And that is often just such a, that's the tip of the arrow, the tip of the spear. Bill Blankschaen 49:35 - 49:50 It's the guiding principle around which you can build your entire message. And so I think that's where it begins, frankly, Spencer. I think it begins with getting clear on that meaningful message. And from that, you can then build out your entire story ecosystem. Christian Napier 49:53 - 50:18 Last question for me before we get to Spencer's lightning round. Sure. I'm wondering if you can share an example or a story of where a leader or an organization took this to heart, created this framework. How did it end up impacting the organization by being able to craft their story? Bill Blankschaen 50:20 - 50:50 Yeah. What I turn to is my first thought goes to, Actually go to an entrepreneurial friend of mine he has a b2b service. And so he works in a lot of different organizations touching very very deep level with leadership and so forth and walking with them and when he first came to us he had a bunch of ideas. He had he had messages he had messages you trying to share and get out there what we help them do is really. Bill Blankschaen 50:50 - 51:18 Still them down to their essence and then build them back up in the package of stories in the compelling books. No from the books that we helped him create great workshops learning experiences around that he could take back into these companies and equip them. And eventually we turned one of them into a digital service as well, a digital product, a digital course that he could roll out to Planet Fitness and many others are using it now. And now we're working on a third book with him as well, right? Bill Blankschaen 51:18 - 51:57 But what he was after was a way to get his messages that he had inside of them to bring them to life, make them sticky and shareable in these organizations. And so now, By helping him do that, those messages are getting into, some of these are Fortune 50 companies, they're rolling these out, they're talking about them, and I always look at it as the exponential reach of those, like there's a multiplication impact. We helped one person do this in a way and present it in a way and package it in a way that it could be shared with many, and now it's literally touching thousands, tens of thousands, even more than that, lives around the globe. to make the world a better place. Bill Blankschaen 51:57 - 52:07 And that's really why we do what we do, is at the end of the day, if what we do is making the world a better place and telling stories that do that, then I think we've made some progress. Christian Napier 52:19 - 52:21 All right, Spencer, get us to the lightning round. Spencer Horn 52:22 - 52:26 All right, bill. Very quick, short answers. Um, a book that changed your life. Bill Blankschaen 52:28 - 52:37 Um, I would say, uh, who, not how, or no, I'm sorry. Who, not how is a good one. Uh, 10 X is easier than two X. Uh, Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy. Spencer Horn 52:37 - 52:43 I just heard that, uh, some from somebody, I gotta, I gotta get that the best storyteller you've ever heard. Bill Blankschaen 52:46 - 53:01 Oh man, that's a whole lot of competition there. Best storyteller I've ever heard. Wow, there's so many good ones. This was supposed to be a lightning round, Spencer. Bill Blankschaen 53:04 - 53:06 There's only like a couple thousand I could throw out there. Spencer Horn 53:07 - 53:18 Do you know who Jeannie, who's that gal from North Carolina, the grandma, she used to sit on her rocking chair. Oh my gosh, what is her name? Jeannie, come on, people help me out. Bill Blankschaen 53:18 - 53:40 I haven't heard that the person I went to was a garrison keeler, you know, with his Lake will be gone days. He was such a, he did such a great job of from an audio standpoint of just bringing middle America to life. And, and he had a great feel for the story in a very subdued way, right? It wasn't flashy. Bill Blankschaen 53:40 - 53:44 It was let the story carry it. So that's who I would turn to on the spot. Spencer Horn 53:45 - 53:52 Love it. One word to describe your leadership style. Authentic. Something that people often misunderstand about storytelling. Bill Blankschaen 53:55 - 54:09 Uh, I, I think they, one of the big things is they feel like they have to do it alone. You know, that they've got to carry this burden and maybe people now are listening to what we've talked about and they're like, Oh, all right. All right. Now I've got a massive to do on my plate and I've got to figure it all out myself. Bill Blankschaen 54:09 - 54:15 And that's simply not the case. You can collaborate with others. In fact, I like to say, if you want to elevate, you must collaborate. Spencer Horn 54:16 - 54:22 Oh man, that just, that was my next question. What's your favorite quote from story advantage? Bill Blankschaen 54:22 - 54:23 That's certainly one of them. Christian Napier 54:24 - 54:24 Yeah. Bill Blankschaen 54:24 - 54:41 If you want to elevate, you must collaborate. Because that's, that's, that's a thought, a paradigm-shifting thought. And it goes with 10x is easier than 2x, even, right? If you want to, if you want to do something, you want to get something bigger than yourself accomplished, you're gonna have to work with people who can help you do that, leverage expertise to make that happen. Spencer Horn 54:42 - 54:48 Yeah. Coffee or tea? Coffee. Biggest leadership lesson you've learned from failure? Bill Blankschaen 54:51 - 54:57 that learning from mistakes is the only path to success. So there's no avoiding them. Spencer Horn 54:58 - 55:01 Right. One trade every great storyteller shares. Bill Blankschaen 55:04 - 55:06 Care and concern for their audience. Spencer Horn 55:09 - 55:12 What's your story in five words or less? Bill Blankschaen 55:13 - 55:18 Hmm. I believe every story matters. Christian Napier 55:19 - 55:51 Brilliant, Christian. Okay, to conclude, before we wrap this thing up, I want to emphasize the last point that you made there. Spencer, you know very well a person in that National Speaker's Association chapter, Kathy Loveless. Kathy asked me to come and do a workshop in her church organization on family history and personal stories. Christian Napier 55:52 - 56:19 And right as that happened, Queen Elizabeth passed away. And if you recall at the time, there were tributes like all around the clock on all of the television stations and social media with people sharing their stories about Queen Elizabeth II. And I was curious about something. So I looked up online and I did some calculations. Christian Napier 56:19 - 56:56 And it's estimated that the day that Queen Elizabeth II passed away, another 680,000 people passed away on the same day. And every single one of those people had a story, and they matter, and they deserve to be preserved and shared. And so I commend you, Bill, for the work that you're doing to help people surface and articulate and share these stories because they are important. So I'm very grateful to you for spending an hour sharing your story with us. Christian Napier 56:56 - 57:07 And if people want to reach out and connect with you to learn a little bit more about how you could help them craft and share their story, what's the best way for them to do so? Bill Blankschaen 57:08 - 57:17 Well, we love to talk story. We love to hear story. We love to chat about stories. Mystorybuilders.com forward slash story will give you a direct scheduling link. Bill Blankschaen 57:17 - 57:35 If you just want to schedule a call, let's, let's talk. I'd love to hear your story. Mystorybuilders.com forward slash story or mystorybuilders.com has all about our services and who we are and what we're about. And of course your story advantage, the book, yourstoryadvantage.com get the book, get the free resources and start telling better stories. Christian Napier 57:37 - 57:46 Thank you so much, Bill. That's fantastic, Bill. People reach out to Bill. And Spencer, you've been helping teams and leaders build high-performing organizations for decades. Christian Napier 57:46 - 57:52 And if people want some help in that regard, how should they connect with you? Spencer Horn 57:52 - 58:10 reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love when I have a chance to chat with you and just connect and talk about your opportunities to perform it to the next level. And Bill, do you see why I mean Christian is really the glue that holds this show together? Isn't he great? Spencer Horn 58:10 - 58:27 He has so much to offer organizations, and I'm always excited and honored to introduce him. So Christian, how can people find you and identify the wisdom that you can help them uncover in their organizations? Christian Napier 58:28 - 58:36 You're laying it on thick here, Spencer. Anything for free Mexican food, I'm sure. Yeah, no, that's not. I appreciate it sincerely. Christian Napier 58:37 - 58:41 LinkedIn as well. Just look up Christian Napier on LinkedIn. You'll find me there and happy to connect with folks. Spencer Horn 58:41 - 58:46 And hang on after, just till we close, if you don't mind, Bill, just if you don't mind. Christian Napier 58:46 - 58:55 Yeah, so we are closing now. So listeners and viewers, thanks for spending an hour of your day with us. We really appreciate it. And please like and subscribe to our podcast. Christian Napier 58:55 - 58:58 We'll catch you again soon. See you later.