Welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse, a podcast dedicated to promoting
financial literacy to firefighters.
I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,
and also a certified financial planner.
With me, I have the other co-host of the fiscal firehouse, Louis Barella, executive
Board member of Local 1309 ambulance driver, and want to be financial expert.
Together, John and I hope to bring clarity to the world of personal finance,
specifically relating to firefighters.
Firefighting is a difficult job making sound.
Financial decisions shouldn't be.
Lombardi Intro: in today's episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.
John and Louie, welcome a special guest.
Fire Chief Don Lombardi of West Metro Fire Rescue Chief Lombardi will share his
wisdom and experiences gained throughout his 33 years in the fire service,
including the last 14, as the fire Chief Chief Lombardi opens up about his
experiences between labor and management, the importance of having a financial
literate workforce, how firehouse culture can influence financial behaviors, and
lastly, what he's looking forward to the most regarding his upcoming retirement.
Without further ado.
Let's kick it over to local 1309 studios and the recording of the fiscal firehouse.
Jon: welcome back to another episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.
I believe this is episode number 10.
I'm your co-host John Beatty.
with me as always.
I have, really the fan favorite, the one that I was always
really carry in the show.
Louis Barilla lb.
How's it going today, brother?
Good
Louie: Good man.
Really good.
Really excited for today.
I think the podcast has been doing really good things.
We've been getting a lot of growth.
We're hearing from people even outside of the state of Colorado that
they're listening to the podcast.
So we're just really excited that we found something that we
feel like firefighters are into.
There's a thirst for that kind of knowledge.
The financial knowledge.
So the podcast is going great.
And now we have a really special guest on, so
Don: it's gonna
Louie: even better.
Jon: That's right.
That's a soft little intro.
A little teaser as they say in the business.
Right.
We got a little teaser.
So we normally do a recording at Local 1309 studios, which is at our old union
station, but we've gone mobile, we've made our way up to the second floor, the corner
office at 4 33 South Allison Parkway.
So those of you from West Metro definitely know what office we're chatting about.
But we're in the office of the Fire Chief of West Metro Chief Don Lombardi.
Chief, good to see you.
Thanks for agreeing to come on the podcast.
I know it took a long time to get the schedulers, you know, all fixed.
You got a busy schedule, sir.
So thank you for making the time for us.
Don: No, I appreciate it.
it means a lot that, that we can get together and chat.
This is super, super important, so I appreciate that.
Jon: Yeah, absolutely.
So we would be remiss if we didn't give you a little bit of a bio, a little
cv for those of you, for those of the listeners unfamiliar with Chief Lombardi.
And you're probably looking at me like, I can't believe you're gonna
do this to me, but we have to.
It's always appropriate to introduce, a special guest.
You gotta give them their cv.
Louie: do it.
Don: say, I can't believe you're doing this to me.
Jon: you can exactly say you didn't know this was a trap, this
Don: Yeah, exactly.
Like,
Jon: oh, we had these questions prepared and now you guys
are just bait and switching.
Yeah, we'll have some further conversations
Don: so it'll be one sentence long
Jon: That's, that is not true.
And I will fact check this.
So, I definitely have some good resources that I used to procure this cv, but I also
fact checked it with chat GPT and I don't know if you guys have played around with
AI very much, but the, what this thing came out with was very impressive, like
almost line for line, what I had lined out, minus a couple things here and there.
So you are definitely well known as far as whatever large language models they
use to get this in sources information.
So if you're, someone that's considering going into research, a PhD student,
Mike Minnie, I would say maybe you should probably rethink this because
this, I mean this software is gonna
Louie: start.
And it was all about you chief, a lot
Don: of, well, it was my $5 donation to Google, so I appreciate that.
Jon: got your own Wiki
Don: paper.
Well, exactly, yeah.
Jon: uploaded that.
So no, chief Lombardi has served the citizens of west
Metro honorably for 33 years.
He became our fire chief, the chief of West Metro in 2011.
under his tenure.
West Metro has received accreditation along with an ISO
Class one, which is pretty special.
There's only 117 departments in the whole world that have done
that, so that's a huge achievement.
He helped introduce, and facilitate Camp Ember, which helps young
women gain awareness and exposure to a career in the fire service.
this is something that's really near and dear to a lot of our hearts.
known pun intended, help draft legislation.
To form the heart circulatory cancer and behavioral health trust here in
the state of Colorado, you've held a multitude of leadership positions as the
president of the Metro Denver Fire Chiefs Association, also the president of the
Colorado State Fire Chiefs Association, and then the big chiefs, the president
of the Metro Fire Chiefs Association.
So really not only just at the state level, but all the way up to the
national level, you've held those leadership positions and because of
that, you've received certain leadership awards, including the, fire Chief of
the Year, presented by the Division of Fire Prevention and Control.
You're also awarded the Russell L.
Sanders Lifetime Achievement Award by the Metro Fire Chiefs Association.
and then recently you were acknowledged at the state for your service, to
the assistance here of West Metro.
And the one thing that I'm most proud of, out of all of that stuff, which is
quite a list, and this is something that chat GPT did not find out, and that is
your, knowledge and awareness and really advocacy for the labor management.
Relationship.
That is the one thing it didn't pick up on at all.
And that's something that we are very proud of here at West Metro and
especially as a union sponsored podcast.
Local 1309 is just our relationship that we've had through the year.
So that is quite the, that's quite the CV
Louie: is that it, you're already gonna retire and that's all you've done.
Don: all I've done.
Yeah.
Jon: is just a
Don: I do have one correction.
Russell E.
Sanders.
Jon: Oh, I put Russell L.
Oh my
Don: That's okay.
No, thank you for that's, I have to acknowledge that because he's probably
one of the top two or three people in the fire service, so that's a great honor.
But Russell E.
Sanders,
Jon: Okay.
No, thank you for
Don: And then the reason you needed, didn't find anything
in chat, GGTP about GPTG.
Jon: Yep.
GPT.
Don: Yeah.
about our labor management is we try to keep that quiet,
Jon: Well, the secret's
Don: Yeah.
Mostly it started with, Mike Veneer and he wanted to, you know, not let anybody know
that he gets along with the fire chief,
Jon: It would ruin his street cred.
Don: Yeah, exactly.
Jon: and start beating
Don: up
Jon: on management.
Don: No, I appreciate
Louie: Thanks.
And since we just talked about that union side of things, I know we have some
financially minded questions for you since this is a financially, oriented podcast,
but, just because of the relationship that you've built, with the union, you
know, you and the union have accomplished a lot of good things together.
and I know you've learned a lot during that partnership, so.
I kind of want to know, what do you think has been your key to success with
that relationship and how would you help guide your successor to maintain
that kind of a good relationship?
Don: So, you know, my relationship with the union has gone back, when I first
started, I mean before that, but really when I started as the administrative
chief here at West Metro and, Mike Ner and I, who is the president, then we
worked really hard from a collaborative, standpoint on, how we do things.
and our fire chief at the time, wasn't as involved, organizationally
as we thought he should be.
and he came from an outside agency.
And so Mike and I worked a lot to keep things at that level, at my level from a
disciplinary standpoint, from budgetary type things, all of those things.
So we developed, a relationship then, and Mike was starting out as
the union president, then as well.
So we both were kind of growing up together and we relied on each other.
greatly for a lot of things.
And you know, where people talk about labor management, you know, they typically
see, you know, people butting heads or really being at odds with each other.
And not to say that Mike and I weren't, 'cause we've yelled at each other a lot.
These walls could talk.
yeah.
And, but we always had a mutual respect for each other that we would do that
behind closed doors and then typically we would come out and be on the same page.
a lot had to do with, and I'm thinking of one time when I was at
the National Fire Academy when I was going through my executive fire officer
and we had a problem with one of our members from a paramedic standpoint.
And I, so I'm back there for two weeks and I'm in class and we get breaks
every single break for two weeks.
I'm on the phone with Mike going back and forth, and finally it was
on, I think the second to last day.
I said something to Mike and Michael.
That, that's what I'm saying.
And we both went, we both stopped and said, you mean we've been saying
the exact same thing for two weeks?
We just were yelling at each other that yes.
So my point is, so we developed this relationship, but I try to treat
it as, and I say this with great respect, it's like being married
that we work really hard at this relationship and it's very fragile.
And so, like in most marriages, although I know people get divorced
and those things, but we don't get to walk away from each other.
We have to continue to do what we do and we can't just walk away.
And some days, you know, the union president might give 120% and I, as a
fire chief might give 10% just 'cause of circumstances and vice versa.
it's a relationship that we work at a lot.
And then when Mike Veneer, moved on to be the Ninth District vp, or it's
the state, president and then the Ninth District VP and Mike Mulkey.
Mike's a much different personality than Mike Veneer, and yet we have a really
deep connection and we work really hard to, again, to try to do what's best for,
the organization do best, what's for, best for our firefighters, and ultimately
what's best for, our, community.
And so when we have that, when we have that understanding, and collaboration
like that, it's not hard to win.
Yeah.
It's not hard to be successful with all that.
Louie: Yeah, well, you've accomplished a lot of great things with them,
so it's been awesome to come into that as a younger firefighter,
younger in my career anyway.
I'm not really young, but younger in my
Don: career.
Louie: and just seeing the things that you guys have done together over the time that
you've been here, I think it's awesome.
I think it's really cool, and it's been a great thing to be a firefighter at
such a great department that has a good relationship between labor and management.
so I just wanna say kudos to that,
Don: I appreciate that.
And, you know, one of the things that I've been accused of, and both from a
good and bad standpoint, you know, they go, I've been accused of, you're in bed
with the fire, with the, firefighters.
You're in bed with the union.
It's like, yeah, I am.
But for all the right reasons.
And I ask people, you know, especially when you look at, from a fairness
standpoint, when we look at do we treat our, membership fairly
and with respect, you know, as accountability goes, things like that.
I can always say yes.
And has anybody ever, been.
has our relationship taken away from anything that this organization
does or, does it take away from any of the values people have?
And the answer is, at least from my perspective, is no.
Right.
So, so when I say I'm in bed, I'm in bed with them for all the right reasons.
Yeah.
and that makes a little bit, I think, better sense as we go
along with this of how we work.
Louie: Well, John and I will go to these conferences and we'll hear
these horror stories from these union leaders about their relationship with
their management, with their chief.
And I mean, it just sounds so, abrasive.
And they'll be like, well, that's just how it is.
Like, that's just how all departments are, right?
Like everyone has to just struggle with that, and we just kind of
look at each other like, no, it doesn't have to be that way.
It shouldn't be that way.
And we can aspire to work closely and have the same goals and the same, you know,
even the same ways to reach those goals.
That's a good thing.
And so we have a good culture of that here.
and I, you know, I hope it never changes.
Like it's been so conducive to our relationship and the things
that we've accomplished here that I, I hope it never changes.
Don: I don't think it will.
I think that people understand what great looks like.
And when I say great, what it looks, you know, that's an, that's a tribute
to the entire membership here at West Metro and how we do stuff and what they
allow us to do and, what they want us to do, what their expectations are.
And so when you look from that perspective, I don't think
that we'll fall backwards.
I think that people will, at the very minimum, when I say demand, that's not
the right way to say it, but they'll expect that from the new chief coming in.
And I think the new chief will give that because he sees, you know,
how that's, been a such an asset.
And, what you guys have experienced with, at your, labor conferences.
I've experienced at my fire chief conferences when I was the
metro president, I would talk about labor management and I had.
Chiefs come to me from large fire departments and go, how do you do this?
How do you do that?
and I talk about, building relationships and collaboration and trusting each
other and empowering people to do things.
And they go, I can never do that.
I just can't.
and so it's a different perspective.
I've finally realized it's just a different perspective they have.
But you're right, it's, I will say this from my perspective, it
is way hard being the fire chief.
It is a very hard position within our organization.
if I had to battle the union on top of being the fire chief It would be that
much harder and it would be so much we couldn't, if you look at the successes at
West Metros because of our relationship that allows us to have those successes,
I, we couldn't have it any other way.
And if you don't mind, I want to go back just a little bit on how
meaningful that relationship is.
When we, back in 2012, when we lost out that election, to raise our
mill levy, we had to cut service.
And my first call wasn't to any of our chiefs.
Nor to the board of directors, my first call was Tom to, Mike Verne.
as the union president, said, Mike, we've got a lot of work to do.
And I said, as yucky as this gonna be, you and I have to pop our
heads up above each other and look at each other and understand that
we're on the same page with stuff.
And so the union jumped in at that leadership role to help
shape of what we are today.
So that's very important to me that they took that on and
that, again, is a norm here.
And I've had a lot of chiefs go, I want your relationship.
And I go, okay, take about try.
Yeah, exactly.
Louie: You gotta work
Don: that, and you can't have it overnight.
this is working really hard for as long as I've been in the fire
chief and then as the admin chief.
So since 2004, you know, you look at all that.
So,
Jon: And as a history, as a person that loves history, our
history wasn't always that way.
Back in the day, there was very adversarial relationships where we
had to use the union attorney on speed dial for all of these disciplinary
cases and all this other stuff.
So it's like we have learned as well, and it wasn't always this way.
It took some right people at the right time with the right mindset to
start to create a culture that would help, you know, facilitate better
labor management relationships.
And we, I think that's really important that we continue to pass
down those history lessons as we continue to look towards the future.
But I think that's a great lesson for all of us to
Don: take.
And I think from our board of directors perspective, they take
a cue off of that as well too.
And I think that they're very collaborative and wanna work with you.
And when you look at some other agencies around us where they're either
their city council or their board of directors go, now that you guys are
hands off, I don't want to talk to you.
there's no, nothing good comes from that.
Yeah, nothing good at all comes from that, so.
Louie: Well, that's really cool.
I think it's awesome.
And one thing that we like to brag about is that you and your chiefs are
all dues paying members of local 1309.
Like you guys still do that as a way of being like, Hey,
we're all in this together.
We're still firefighters at heart, and so we're gonna, continue to
support and contribute to that.
'cause that's important to us.
And that's not something that is universal or even common among
Jon: definitely not common and
Louie: So that's pretty cool.
But
Don: But it's not hard.
And so I look at that and I know that for a fact, but it just
throws me that's not the norm.
Yeah.
That we are the exception to that.
And it's, and it means a lot to still have, my, you know, union card and
that I'm still part of the union.
and that I'm from Labor's perspective is I'm still a valued member of that
union, even though I'm a fire chief.
And it, and so when you look from those perspectives, that's not.
That's not how it is.
It's an us and them thing.
And that's never been in my wheelhouse and really, you know, is
to educate our chiefs along the way.
Through my years as a fire chief, I've had to pull some of those chiefs along.
as well because they thought that's how it should be, that we're us and them.
And it's not.
it's we do this together and that's why we accomplish all the things we do.
Cool.
Jon: Yeah, that's great.
So we're gonna, pivot a little bit and start to focus on really the theme
that Louis and I when we're sitting and thinking about how we're gonna have this
conversation with you, chief Lombardi was, really marrying that concept of, financial
independence and financial literacy, with like overall firehouse culture
and how sometimes that can be super beneficial and how that can also be a
huge detractor as well, just depending on where you sit on that side of the fence.
So one of the questions we have is, how would you describe the overall
financial challenges that firefighters face throughout their careers?
Obviously you've been in the fire service for a long time, you have
a lineage, you have kids that are in the fire service as well.
So this is probably meaningful for you, well beyond just your
tenure here as the fire chief, and then your service to West Metro.
But what do you think about, what are some of those challenges that they face?
Don: Well, you know, I think that, you know, from when I first started out, to
where we are today has been, we're leaps and bounds above what we feed both from a
pay perspective and a benefit perspective.
And I remember when I first got on, I was a school teacher and my pay as
a tenured school teacher, so I'm up four years on almost was to the dollar
of what I was getting as a brand new firefighter here at West Metro.
And so that was interesting to me.
but again, it was like $19,000 is what we made.
And during that time, you know, it just, we thought we had good pay,
we thought we had good benefits, and yet we were still, my wife and I.
You know, she stayed at home with her kids, was still like poor as church mice.
So we got, or I got to see a lot of different things
from a different perspective.
'cause we had kids and such.
and what I found is that, and me included, 'cause my first captain that I had my
first shift, he sat me down and got out the I the ICMA form for our 4 57
and said, okay, you're putting $25 in.
I said, I can't afford that.
He goes, I don't care.
He goes, you're putting $25 into ICMA starting today.
And that was my, that and good for him
Louie: I'm gonna start doing that to all the new guys that come
through, just forcing him to do it.
I like that idea.
Don: yeah, he, no, he did and he was a scary guy.
he was my captain of training, captain Donal.
And he was
Jon: infamous for exactly that,
Don: For exactly what you're saying.
and, but yeah, he, so he's my training captain scared us all there.
And then I always.
I always made fun and said, oh, my luck is I'm gonna have, is my
captain when I go to the station.
And I did.
But he sat me down and he said he wasn't, there was no option and he wasn't.
When I say nice about it, he said, you are doing this.
And I knew he cared because he, he told me why after you know that this is you
may not be able to afford it today, but you won't, you're not gonna miss
this money if it's gonna come out now.
And so that's what the kind of the thinking was.
So today, now I have a pretty good chunk in my ICMA because of him and always doing
that, just never deviating from that.
But what I think from a, from our firefighters now, what their
perspective, and that's why I am loving what you guys are doing is
because you give different perspective.
They don't understand, retirement.
and so I'm getting ready to retire.
I now know, oh my gosh, all those decisions I made way back when
have a great effect on me today.
But at the time, I'm going, my gosh, every and everybody talks
about it, they go, oh, you know, you gotta plan for retirement now.
And, you know, our jobs in this and we look at retirement, blah, blah.
We do, but we don't.
and so, so I think our folks are uneducated about, really
what's available to them.
And then in turn, by putting dollars away today or figuring out what you can do with
your dollars today helps you long term.
The other thing too is I see this a lot and I don't know how to get around.
It is, and I see it in, in, Athletes and professional athletes, they all of
a sudden, like here at West Metro, when you become a firefighter here at West
Metro, you're making pretty good money and you've got really super good benefits.
and so people think that, oh, I'm gonna go out and buy this really
cool truck, or I'm gonna buy
Louie: truck baby.
Yeah.
The 1309, the Ford F 1309.
Yeah.
Jon: And
Don: that, or get, jet skis or get a big huge cool trailer,
which I think is all awesome.
I still look at some of the toys that some of our folks have.
I go, I can't afford that today.
How are you affording that?
Yeah.
And so I want, I want people to think, you know, what's practical today and
then long term of what they can sure.
Afford.
and so I go back to what they expect me as the fire chief
from a budgeting perspective.
You all want me to provide long-term.
Fiscal sustainability that we can manage what we're doing today.
That I can still do that five years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now.
I ask, I go back to ask the same thing for our firefighters.
'cause I see it a lot is think about your fiscal or your financial
stability today and how are you gonna maintain that down the road?
Because things happen, you know, illness happens, kids happen, life happens.
All these things happen where you go, oh shoot, now I've got to
pay more for something on that.
And so always try to, when I look at our firefighters again, I want them to
enjoy the dollars that they're making.
But some of the stuff I look and go, I don't know how you afford that.
Louie: yeah.
Well, so speaking of that, in all your experience, I'm sure you've seen
this and we were kind of even talking about, before the recording started, we
were kind of talking about some of the stresses that come with that financial
insecurity or financial irresponsibility.
But have you observed situations where a lack of financial knowledge negatively
impacted a firefighter's performance on the job or wellbeing or just mental,
whatever, alertness, mental health while on the job as a firefighter?
Don: Yeah.
and that's a great question and the answer is yes.
And so when you look at, I think that finances and how we do finances and our
ability to, pay for things or have some stability with our dollars, I think
it leads to a lot of different things.
Meaning I've seen people that have been stressed out and have probably not done
a great job of managing their money and they get into a jam in turn that causes.
marital problems, and then, or family type problems, which in turn can
cause, mental health problems, can cause anxiety, can cause other things.
And then in turn, they feel like they may not have an out because
they've spiraled so much in and haven't taken care of their dollars.
Sometimes it can lead, I've seen to dependency problems either
with substance abuse or with alcohol, those types of things.
So I think that when we look at a, and again, just take the job itself
of what we do and a lot, all the stressors of just our job that has, that
compounds that, I think that having.
financial difficulties or financial angst, also contributes greatly to that.
And I had a chance to talk, with the general president, ed Kelly about this,
that we, he thinks the same thing.
He goes, if we could come out with a way to educate our firefighters on finances
and give them some financial footing, because we do it with, here at West
Metro, we do it from, fire training.
We do, EMS training.
And you go through paramedic school and you go through our academies.
You do all these things and we're very much, on how we train you to do stuff.
And if we had an avenue, and that's why I'm so happy, what you guys do, an avenue
to educate people on, finances and.
Fiscal responsibility.
not to say that you can't have fun, and not to say you can't use your
dollars for fun things, but if you've got everything else taken care of,
then you, then it's okay to do those.
But I think that would take away, if we had some better responsibility
with our dollars, that would take away one of those, problems of
creating other things that, stressors that we have from firefighters.
and so I think that's a big thing that we need to do and
we need to educate better on.
and this is how, and I love our firefighters.
I do, but sometimes they, I, they cause me pause.
And the reason is this'll give a good example of that.
one of our, when we went from our money purchase plan and we got
into our defined benefit plan, and.
We had to switch things over and they said FPPA, the, our defined
benefit said if you don't switch over, we're just gonna put your money,
purchase dollars into this account.
It was like a money
Jon: Marney market account.
Yeah.
The safest account there is there.
You're not gonna earn any money, but it's not gonna grow at all.
Don: Yeah.
So one of our firefighters did just that, didn't think he had to do
anything, didn't listen, none of that.
All of his dollars went into the money market.
He comes up and he goes, okay, I'm ready to retire.
HR looked at his stuff and said, not only can you not retire, you have to
stay and put this much money away and do all these things to get your years
so that you have a good defined benefit.
And I looked at him and I said, what do you think?
He goes, I just didn't know.
And I went.
This is your life.
Yeah.
This is, your, we all talk about it, make sure you know, can't you do
all these things to protect yourself so that you have a good retirement.
And then he had nothing.
He had to stay for three more years, put money away, buy a bunch of years, all of
these things to get to a point where he was, and I don't think it was even close
to whole of what he should have been.
Had he put it away or had he directed Yeah.
Directed it the correct way.
And so that was a big eyeopener to me of going, we need to educate our
people better on what's available to them and then how to use it.
and people have different, you guys know this, different temperatures of what they
want to do from an investment standpoint.
Some are really aggressive risk.
Yeah.
Really aggressive.
And some people are going, nah, I want to be a T toller.
Which is totally cool, but just have it in something where
you know that it's going to.
And then also the other stuff that we have available either through our RHS,
I think has been super good for us.
Louie: And that's the retirement health savings account for those of you that have
ignored that or don't realize what that
Don: Thank you.
Jon: very little.
Yeah.
Don: Yeah.
And so benefit, well, but I'm telling you now is, when we had
retiree health and the district was paying, we were paying half, of that.
And so when people didn't have to worry, they were paying
the half of their premiums.
And now when we reverted over to retirement health savings, RHS, we
also now have to think, okay, how much is too much in there in your account?
Because now I'm finding out, when I talked to my financial advisors, they
said, how much do you have in your RHS?
And I told them, and they went.
Oh my gosh.
Louie: how are you gonna use
Don: Yeah.
Yeah.
And the good thing about from West Metro's perspective is the board of directors, and
this goes back to relationships, had the board of directors, you know, so the RHS
dollars, if I die, don't go to my family, technically they go back to the district.
So the district board of directors has said they will take that money
and give it to the survivors.
Louie: Write a check out
Don: Yeah.
And so when I explained that to 'em, they went, okay, that makes great sense,
because not many fire districts do that.
You know, they just say, look, we put that money in and helped you out.
Now we're gonna get it back if you pass.
And so, so when you look at all of those avenues that we have, You know,
for, like I talked about 4 57 and some other things, we have opportunities
to put yourself in a good spot, but you have to be active about that.
You have to understand what they're, and it's not rocket surgery.
It really isn't.
Just if you know what, if you know what all of the options that we
have and just take somewhat of an active role in that, I think you'll
probably be way ahead of the game.
Yeah, and
Jon: something that I think is back to the culture aspect of it.
And you talked about Captain Donal, Leah, more or less, I don't wanna
say coercing you, but be like, I know this is in your best interest.
You gotta do that.
And that's something that we have a pretty strong culture here.
I think last time I checked with hr, it's like 90, 95% of our, I.
Our members contribute to the 4 57 plan, which is an amazing uptake ratio.
There's a department that's close by a similar, profile as far as our
size, and there's those with like 60%.
So a lot of that just
Louie: and they consider that good.
They consider
Don: that good and they consider
Jon: that not bad.
Pretty good.
So a lot of this is just the culture that you maintain at the
firehouse and the conversations that you have at the kitchen table.
And that's where we all have a certain level of accountability, personal
accountability, but also responsibility for who you're working with.
And as new folks come on, or even people that have been here for a while, just
checking in, and Louie and I always talk with the recruits about this,
it's a sacred profession in that.
The, the knowledge and the information that you're gonna share.
The personal, you know, the intimacy that you will have is unlike many
other industries out there, a lot of people can play or kinda like the
military and some of these other close knit, tight unit teamwork type things.
So that's just something that we all have a responsibility to check in and
make sure people are doing fine on that.
And when things start going off the rails is, there's plenty of resources out there
in which we can help, course correct.
But it does.
100% starts with education.
So one of the things that the the IAFF is looking at, or they have
implemented, and this took place back in when we had the Ottawa convention,
it's initiative called the 15 by five.
So basically they want every IAFF member.
By the time that they have are in their fifth year service to have
15% of their salary saved in their deferred comp plan, their 4 57 plan.
And you do it incrementally.
So you start with five and then it's just 2% every year thereafter.
Hopefully raises and everything else are kind of gonna take that
raise and just put it over there.
if our members were able to put away 15% of their salary every
year, ever since five years, we would all be in a much better shape.
Louie: we are doing great.
Jon: Yep.
So it's just little things like that, it's little nudges here and
then incrementally just keeping up.
It really moves the needle on that.
So I'm happy that you got to have that conversation with GP Kelly and,
probably secretary, treasurer Frank Lima, and having those, 'cause it's
important not just at our level at West Metro, but statewide and the
nationally as well, to have those and carry on those conversations.
So
Don: when you look from those perspectives too, is what people don't realize is
that when you start earlier in your career, when you start earlier and start
putting, you know, X amount of dollars away for those types of things, then.
by the time you retire my age, you look back and you go, oh my gosh.
You know how much you have that helps you out.
and so I think that it's went from a cultural perspective, you're
right, that we need to educate our folks and put our arms around them
and show them all of these things.
I think that's incumbent upon all of us to be able to do, you know, if we talk
about that we're in this, brother and sisterhood of taking care of each other,
and here at West Metro, we really pride ourselves on having this family that
I think it's incumbent upon all of us.
And like you guys do that we put our arms around somebody and say,
look, you need to be looking at these types of things, and not only
for your future, but even for today.
You go and, because we all talk about, I'm gonna go buy this,
and what do you think about that?
this boat and all the, I think that, just having that candid conversation of saying,
are you sure you're able to afford that?
Or if you get in over your head and you've, you're, you've leveraged
yourself to the hilt on loans or whatever it might be, does that.
Does that, is that feasible?
Does that make sense to you?
Yeah.
long term.
And the other thing too is, through the, through a lot of years, we built a lot
of good relationships, especially, I sit on the board right now for the Foothills
Credit Union and, they've been worked really well with us, but they give a
lot of information to our firefighters.
They come out, at the academy and give information.
So there's different portals that we have that, it doesn't have to be just
through ICMA or it doesn't have to be, through some of the other stuff we have,
since we've built these relationships, now our firefighters can go and their
families can go and save to Foothills and get a better rate on loans or get,
better savings, CDs and things like that, that I think gives us different options.
Jon: Yeah, I wanted to give, a huge plug and a huge shout out to, our
HR department here at West Metro.
they really do go above and beyond with what is required, quite frankly,
and one of the recent things they did, and if there's members or.
People listening in the audience outside of West Metro, potentially something
you should bring to your organization.
Your department is making sure that beneficiaries are updated yearly.
because we know life happens, divorces, all sorts of things.
And we've unfortunately had several members here that did not have
their beneficiaries aligned with their wishes or their latest wishes.
And, the funds ended up going to someone that they didn't want it to go to.
And it's not required from the depart from the department standpoint, it's
not some kind of law they're following.
Once you get that form, they don't have to continue to update that.
This is something that our organization values, our HR department and it's a
heavy lift for them to update that.
Every year we get members that call in and they're trying to figure the login
account and they're just constantly trying to keep our members up to date.
And when you look at, I don't know, even you as the fire chief, if you realized
all the forms that are maintained with all of our benefits, like it, it blew
me away when I looked at all that stuff.
I was like, and I.
Try to keep up to date on all that stuff.
And there was even a couple, lapses in some of my stuff that, could have
put my family in a bad position.
Don: and you talk about that, and that's a huge statement because
we had, we have had examples of that, and from a, the district's
perspective, I can't do anything.
HR came down to me and said, Hey, can we, this is going to, an ex-wife
that they haven't been married for 20 years and he's got another family
and, kids and all this other stuff.
And I said, we have no choice by law,
Jon: by law, by contract,
Don: contract.
We have to do it that way.
That's
Louie: That's heartbreaking.
Don: you make a great point.
Is we, it's, again, it's not rocket.
It's not hard.
Time it takes diligence, takes responsibility on all of our parts to
make sure that those are up to snuff.
'cause if not us, no one else can.
Like you said, HR can't change beneficiaries, they can't
do these types of things.
We have to be proactive with all of those things.
And in, and if I was to give advice to anybody, that would be one of my
main things is to say, be proactive on what your benefits are, who's getting
benefits if something happens to you?
Those types of things.
And keep up on those.
Louie: Yeah.
Don: That's cool.
Louie: we kind of want to now shift a little bit and talk about, maybe,
drawing on your extensive knowledge and
Jon: that's a really nice way of saying you've been here for a
Don: Yeah, I'm old.
Louie: you're, you're old and you got some
Jon: Salt and pepper.
Don: Yeah.
Louie: but what, you know, if you could kind of go back 33 years ago,
you clearly contributed to a 4 57 as you were strong armed by your officer.
But what would you have done differently, or what do you look back
now from a financial perspective?
What do you wish that you would've done to maybe change the course
of your financial future or your current financial situation?
Not that you're in a rough financial situation.
No.
But knowing what you know now,
Don: so interestingly, we have two kids and so, we were just, we were in
a position where I, we couldn't put a lot of dollars away for college.
And so, I'm proud to say that we put our two kids one through the University of
Denver and then one through Colorado State University, which is hard for me to say
as a buffalo, but, without any loans.
But that was, that's awesome.
Well, it is, but it isn't, we.
We, refinanced our house several times, to pay for all that.
Now, I can say that our houses, our mortgages paid off and we
did it be earlier than 30 years.
So it all worked out, but it was a stressful time, and my wife's parents
helped out and my parents helped out a little bit on those, but not a ton.
so I guess going back, I, although I put money into a 4 57, I wish that
I had done it better incrementally, meaning as I got raises, and again,
we were, so, I understand when people say, look, I'm in the moment, we
were truly as poor as church mice.
again, my wife stayed home, to take care of the kids.
We had a little small business out of the house, where we did
first aid and CPR training.
And so every either promotion that I got or every raise that we got, we gobbled up.
And you know, people that lived paycheck to paycheck, we did.
and so, one of the things that, and I, it has zero to do with me.
It has everything to do with my wife, Vicki, is before we got married,
we were getting right about, we're getting married and she goes,
okay, this is how it's gonna be.
She goes, you're gonna have your account.
I'm gonna have my account and then we'll have a joint account.
I said, no honey, come on.
let's have one account.
She goes, absolutely not.
And so we had, we started off that way and she goes, if we'll put money into a
joint account that to cover all of our expenses together and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And then she goes, whatever's left over, you gotta keep yours and I'll keep mine.
'cause we were both employed at the time and she goes, if you want to go out
and, you know, play golf or drink beer with your friends, I won't say anything.
And if I want to go out and do whatever I do, you don't get a.
You know, bitch about that.
Can I say bitch in
Jon: yeah,
Don: yeah.
Okay.
you don't get a bitch then.
Yeah.
And so, and so it, it morphed a little bit after that when she
stayed at home with the kids and she couldn't contribute as much.
So then I got an allowance and stuff.
but nonetheless is, I still have my account, she has her account
and we have a joint account and it has saved our marriage Sure.
Because we don't argue about money ever.
Nice.
And so I tell that to people a lot is, consider those things because I
have a lot of friends here and they either try to hide money from, you
know, of saying, you know, I can't
Jon: it's a little slush
Don: Yeah.
Exactly.
That or other, and there's none of that with us.
and or they say.
I went out and, we went to Vegas and gambled a little bit more than we thought.
Had a little bit too much fun.
And so my wife now gets that much to go out and do whatever she wants.
We've never had those problems.
so I would suggest that to a lot of people.
Like I said, it was wonderful for us.
in fact, I remember when I was a captain of Station 12, and Dr.
Phil had a show specifically on that same thing we're doing, and I grabbed Kevin
Warren, one of my engineer at the time and said, you need to be, because you
get married, you need to be doing that.
Yeah.
And I think he did.
but anyway, so back to what I wish I, I wish that I had,
enough, I'll just say guts to.
It when I got raises or when I got promoted is to put more money away.
I've got a pretty good, you know, the 4 57 now is okay, but you think
over, 30 years it would be a lot more
Louie: all that compound interest.
yeah,
Don: so I would suggest as people look at that as is to take, put money
in there and do the pre-tax stuff so that you look at that and say, okay,
I, I don't, I'm not getting that.
Yeah.
And I'm not, I don't, write a check every time.
I think it's easier that you get that taken out and then
you don't worry about that.
I, and
Louie: I, man, that's, that, those are great pieces of advice.
two things I'll say about that, John, this is really good for us because we're
always looking for, recommendations.
We're always asking the membership like, what do you guys want us to talk about?
What do you guys have questions on?
And I know one thing that I don't think it's on our list of like future
episodes, but I think, how couples handle finances I think is super important.
And that's a great idea.
And I know, Caitlyn and I have some pretty advanced budgeting software
that we do, but we do the same.
Yeah, nerds, but we do the same thing.
She has her own account and I have mine, we call her discretionary funds.
And those are things that we can spend that money on whatever we want,
whether it's go golfing, drinking with my buddies or whatever it is.
And she could do the same thing.
She buys fabric and sewing machines or whatever, and we don't have
to clear it with each other.
Hey, I thought that money was for our family vacation, or I thought that
money was for the mortgage payment.
it's all set up so that she knows what is in her account.
her budget line item is for her to do whatever she wants.
I think we can have a really good episode where we talk about that.
That's a fantastic idea.
Don: Yeah.
I like that a lot.
and I agree.
and if you, with your experiences, and it's interesting.
Vic and I have different, looks on purchasing.
She's very much a remorseful buyer.
We'll go out and buy a couch and the next she goes, do you
think we really can afford this?
I said, yes, we can.
And I'm the opposite way.
I always say, we'll figure out how to right pay for this.
And we always have.
And the thing is, and again, now that we're doing, from fire chief's,
wages are doing okay for us.
But I remember again, when things weren't, were difficult for us
when we had the kids at home.
we were famous for going out and buying, something that had, no payments,
no interest for X amount of time.
We put the money away knowing that in 36 months or whatever it was,
we'd have to pay those things.
And we, we did that every time, which in turn helped our credit.
So then we could get better, loans or things like this if we needed.
But, But it was interesting.
We were very famous for that, but she is very much a,
Jon: she's kinda like a spend thrift.
Like she just doesn't,
Louie: and you're not, you don't care.
You're just like, whatever, man, that money's gone.
Yeah,
Don: is.
I, we'll go out.
we just bought couches the other day and I said, we need to get a new couch.
And she said, she goes, we've got some pretty big expenses coming up.
We've gotta wait.
And I'm going, no, we don't.
And so fix it.
I know.
Yeah.
and then, so then when we went and bought it, and we, it was the, it was like the
memorial day or whatever it was, deal.
And so she goes, at least we got this much off.
and I was just like, my gosh,
Jon: looking for a deal.
so one of the courses that I took, that was actually my favorite course, was a
course called Money and Relationships.
I mean it was more or less, how to be a therapist.
'cause there's actually a subspecialty within financial planning that
specifically focuses on financial therapy.
And that's, you've already alluded to it, where a lot of the sources of
conflict come from in a relationship.
it's not about the money, like the money is the symptom.
There's something more deep seated about where the resentment or
wherever that is coming from.
But until you actually talk about this stuff openly is where you can
really start to make some headway.
And what I've.
Heard from both of you.
It seems like although your styles are different, at the end of the
day, you guys are operating as one and you guys are aligned.
And even though people have different feelings about what that spending or lack
of spending may be, you guys are on the same train heading down the same tracks.
And the minute that those things start to bifurcate is when
there can be some friction.
So I think there's a lot of useful tools out there, but I think that
would be a fun episode to have.
and that's something that, you know, just around the firehouse table is
always a source of comedy for one, but also friction and real friction.
And if we can help alleviate some of that friction and give people some
strategies and some tools to help mitigate that, all for the better.
So I like that idea.
Louie: I just want our listeners to also take note is, one thing that
John and I always preach to new firefighters, to people at the station,
to whoever we talk to, is about putting money away in your 4 57 or your IRA.
and you just heard the fire chief say the same thing.
if I had to do over again, I would put more money, I'd
make the sacrifice earlier.
I try to put more money in that 4 57.
And that is something that we always say is, look, you think that someday
it's gonna be easier and it will be in some ways, but there's always gonna be
demands for your money, whether it's kids or college or, HVAC systems or new
trucks or boats or toys or whatever it is, you're gonna have demands for your
money that are always going to tempt you away from contributing to your 4 57.
But I've heard people at every single level of this organization,
from firefighters who retired as a firefighter to now the chief about to
retire saying, one, one thing that I could have done differently or that
I would've considered doing earlier is putting more money in my 4 57.
So I just want that to be a specific thing that we highlight in this episode
is every level of the organization, people that have retired, have said,
man, that 4 57 put money into it.
Keep socking it away.
Even if it's uncomfortable, do it and you won't regret it.
No one has ever come to me, John, I know about you.
No one's ever come to me.
What about you chief?
And said, you know what, man?
I really wish that I don't, I didn't have as much money as I do in my 4 57.
I really wish that I would not have saved as much as I did in retirement.
Man, what was I thinking?
I've never heard that.
Don: Nope.
Jon: No.
If they, anything they're complaining about being in a higher tax bracket, then
Don: That's mostly it.
I,
Jon: air to the IRS and everyone else about the unfortunateness of that.
Don: yeah,
Jon: that's, and the one other thing I really picked up on it, and it
just hit me there, is where you were describing kind of your challenges at
the beginning, especially, you know.
33 years ago.
I know a lot of our newer members feel like, some of the dreams of the American
dreams have vanished because of high cost of living and all these other things.
But it seems like in every generation it's always been that way where there
has been a certain amount of sacrifice and scraping together a certain amount
money in order to achieve certain life goals or whatever that is.
So whether that was 30 years ago or five years ago, it seems like
there's always that underpinning of theme that most people, especially
at the very beginning, you're young, you just got outta college or your
education, you're starting a family.
There's just like a lot of those needs are trying to go all sorts of other places.
So it's not lost on the three people around the microphones here,
about what a challenge that is.
But it's been that way for a lot of folks in a lot of different generations
and not just here in Colorado housing is more expensive, but also our
compensation is higher than other places.
So if you level the playing field, a lot of that, It's, there has been things that
have changed, but there's also things that, the themes are very similar, but
I'm just curious, chief does that worry you at all about some of the, just some
of the at least perceptions of a high cost of living area like Colorado and,
a recruitment aspect and continuing to get, attract the most talented
people here to this organization, does that ever sit in the back of your
mind about being a limiting factor?
That people are just gonna feel like, just even the perception of
me not even being able to afford a home, like why would I wanna live in
a place that I can't achieve that?
Is that something that you think about?
Don: It's not in the back of my mind.
It's in the front of mind.
Because when you think about that, like you said, from a recruiting
perspective, we've done a lot of things to take away barriers, to get
people to apply here at West Metro.
And so one of the things that I can't get away from is what housing is, what the
cost of living is, those types of things.
And one thing that we've articulated to our board of directors, and really from
the union perspective in collaboration, is that we want to have the best
firefighters here, the best trained.
And to do that, it costs dollars.
we have to retain really good people, otherwise, they would go to other places.
or now when you look at all the stuff, and rightly so, we talk about
the risks of being a firefighter from, our cardiac problems to cancer
problems, to mental health problems.
And people going, why in the heck would I wanna do that?
So I now recently been competing now with the private sector
as well, on getting people.
I've had people, some minorities say to me, why would I.
Do all of that when I can work over here, have less stress and make pretty close
to the same amount of dollars and stuff.
So we have to look at it from a different perspective of the service
and why you want to do these things.
But again, if we don't, if we're not attractive enough from a, from a
dollar perspective and from a benefit perspective, but then also then you
look at the intrinsic things, what Mike Benny's been doing from a sleep
perspective on is there a better schedule that we could be on or a
better time start that we could be on?
the bottom line is this, we have to protect our
community, that's our business.
Yeah.
And so we have to have people here 24 hours, seven days a week
to go on calls all the time.
Yeah.
But are there different ways that we can meet some of those needs
that might help our workforce?
Meaning is there an ability to have a surge, engine or a surge medic unit or a
surge, whatever it is to help alleviate some of our busyness and do that on
a different schedule where typically we're on a 24 hour schedule and for
us being on the 48 96 turns into a 56 hour work week, are we able to look
at a surge where we say, okay, you're gonna work this shift of, and just to
throw things out a 10 hour shift and you work three and a half, days or four
days for this to get to that 40 hours.
Is that more beneficial for you from a family perspective,
from a life perspective?
All of those things where people go, they value.
Me as a, as an employee here, as a worker here, they understand the difficulties
of everything I want to be with them and as opposed to another place.
So we have to look at those types of things.
And if we were looking at, just as something, when I say as
simple, 'cause it's not simple, a shift schedule, time change.
Where we started 7:00 AM do you know why we started?
Seven?
Am you two?
Jon: always done
Don: Yeah.
Just 'cause I remember that's what it always was.
Started 7:00 AM And so through the fabulous research that Mike Benny's
done, we know that our best time is probably to gain the best amount of sleep.
Both coming to work and being at work is probably a 10:00 AM to a two-ish pm.
time start.
Okay?
and so we get, we gain almost two hours of sleep for our firefighters, but then
I have to then look from that and say, okay, how does that's great if that
was the only pure thing that we had to do, but then I have to look, okay,
how does that integrate with training?
How does that integrate with building inspections?
How does that integrate with everybody else around us on stuff, community events,
blah, blah, blah, all of those things.
And so when you look from that perspective is how then can we, from a leadership,
can we fit that in to make that right?
And then in turn, where I may not be able to because of revenue sources and because
we live off taxes here, where people might say, I don't wanna pay you as much in
taxes anymore, and they limit us on taxes.
How do I make it that we get more people and we get highly skilled people, highly
committed people with a big heart that says, I want to be part of West Metro.
How do I do that?
And if it's something as simple as.
Man, they start at 11:00 AM That'd be great for my home life.
That'd be great for, me working.
Yeah.
All of those things, when you look from those perspectives, how can we do that?
So, so when we look and retain, it's also, dollars is a driver, don't get me wrong.
Yeah.
Benefits are a driver.
But those other things, now I think are as important, if not more important
to a lot of our newer workforce today.
And again, going back to, if we're able to do those types of things and
that value that we show from a, just being human, probably goes a long way.
and then the other thing, I meant to talk about this a little bit earlier too.
The other thing too is we have to remember that our firefighters have, a
certain amount of life as a firefighter, meaning the demands of the job.
And the stressors of the job limit us.
we don't see, you know, somebody that's, gonna be here till they're
65, a retirement age, or 70 or some, where you look out and you see that
accountant that's been out there and he's 74 years old and still thriving.
Not to say that we can't, and we don't, but that's not very typical.
We have a shelf life here as firefighters because of the demands of the job.
And so that's why it's more important that we put dollars away and we work
on those things because our time.
Getting those dollars is shortened and people need to realize that.
'cause we have this mindset of, of retirement, well, I'm
gonna be real old when I retire.
Well, no you're not.
Yeah.
and then when you look from that perspective of life after.
being a firefighter is insurance and all those other things you're
gonna have to be paying for.
So that's why it's important that you capitalize.
I get the truck is really cool.
I really do.
And I'm not harboring on trucks.
But also too, as remembers you've got a finite time.
Jon: And
Don: we talk about life happens, we've had people that have had injuries that
have ended their career, medical issues, that have ended their career early.
And while we have a benefit to help out with that, it's.
It's not unbelievably great.
So we have to protect ourselves and do it early enough and put those
things away because again, we only have a finite amount of time here to
be able to accumulate those dollars.
And that's one thing I try to explain to our board of directors.
And one thing I try to explain to our civilian support staff, because, they're
on a different, system than we are from a benefits and things where I can keep
our folks that, do our EMS billing.
I can keep them till they're 70.
I rarely can keep a firefighter, and you guys all know this, that they're,
we have people that are retiring, in their fifties and early sixties.
Rarely do we have short of, Gary Armstrong, where they're
gonna be here till they're, 68.
Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
Don: types of thing that,
Jon: that career longevity is, I think, an often overlooked point of view.
and you just don't think about it when you're in your young twenties.
Don: you
Louie: an office job and you have a bad back or bad knees, that's okay.
You're, you can still do your job.
You can still go to meetings and sit in a chair, but you can't drag someone out
of a fire or, do all the other demands.
So, you're right.
that's a good point to
Don: And then you look from our physical fitness perspective, because it is a.
physically demanding job that we put all the ERs through for our firefighters.
It doesn't matter if you're 22 or 62, you still have to
Jon: the standard is the same.
Don: the standards the same, so your body gets beat up over that.
So I, I guess another thing is if I, you say it's often overlooked, I think
it is the most overlooked thing is that is longevity and our shortness of time.
We have to accumulate our wealth, if you will, from a retirement standpoint.
I want everybody to retire here and I want them to call me from
The Bahamas with a ma tie in their hand and ask how things are going.
I want everybody to do that's as a firefighter.
but we have to be smart about those things and remember that
we have that compressed time.
Louie: It's cool to hear you say that chief.
'cause that's really, that's the whole reason why John and I are partners doing
this podcast and teaching the recruits and stuff, is because we realize that
we have that passion and we want people to get outta here when they want to get
outta here, when they feel like it's time.
We don't wanna see people that have to work because they haven't
saved enough or that they're trying to fight through injuries.
'cause they're getting older and they don't have anything in their 4 57.
So the whole reason we're doing this is for exactly what you said.
We have a short amount of time we wanna educate people and get them
on that right track so that they can get outta here when they want.
We've joked about this before, but John almost named this podcast 55 and out.
Like, let's get you outta here at 55 if you want to, because
we want you to get outta here when you want to get outta here.
So it's cool to hear you say that because that's our whole goal.
that's literally why John and I are doing this podcast and doing this whole thing.
So it's cool to see that you are in agreement with that.
You're in alignment with that.
I think that's really cool.
Don: and to educate.
I have to educate our public on that.
I have to educate our board of directors on that.
'cause they don't think through that.
Correct.
They don't think that way.
being able to do those things and when they finally see that and they realize
that, they go, oh, you are right.
That it is a limited amount of time.
Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
So Chief Lombardi is what I'm hearing is he's comparing
us to, professional athletes
Louie: right.
We got a shortened earning
Jon: our career, timeline there.
Time horizon is shortened because, and that's just the nature of
the physicality of the job.
Don: But no signing
Jon: But no signing bonus.
No.
Are we gonna get, for an next deal negotiation?
Some NIL money?
Can we get a little NIL money over here
Don: for the fiscal firehouse.
as buff.
I can say this.
you may have fallen as far as sha Sanders.
Louie: Oh, ouch.
Ouch.
Brutal.
Well, hey, let's shift gears one more time and ask some fun questions now.
Yes.
Because we've, you've given us some good advice and things to think about
from a financial perspective, but now we know that you are about to ride into
that sunset, which congratulations.
Super exciting.
and let's just assume that the couch behind the couches is not gonna
Jon: You're not gonna have to extend
Louie: not gonna have to pull your papers.
Let's assume you actually retire.
Can you tell us what kind of activities or hobbies or passions that you are going
to pursue now that you're gonna have a few more hours of free time, every week?
Don: So, my wife has said, when I told her, retirement, you know, we're,
it's, we're gearing towards that.
She looked at me as we got closer and she says, you know,
that's a lot of together time.
Jon: lot of together
Don: time.
Yeah.
So she's.
She's, worried that I'm gonna watch.
'cause I watching Andy Griffith.
Jon: you love the old school TV shows.
Yeah,
Louie: I've never heard of that.
What is that?
Don: Wow.
Louie: I'm just kidding.
I know.
It's a black and white
Jon: It's
Don: black
Jon: white
Don: thing.
Louie: Mayberry,
Don: right?
Yeah.
she thinks I'm gonna watch that all day, every day.
So I said I may watch that one day all day, but not every day.
I think there's gonna be some opportunities where if someone called up
and said, Hey, would you come out and from a leadership perspective talk about this?
Or, do something like that.
I would do those things.
I don't think I'm gonna run out and like.
Ask people, Hey, would, do you want me to do this?
Do you want me?
Not that I can be content being retired.
I really can't.
People said, you got too much stuff going on.
You're, you've gotta go 60 miles an hour at the time.
I go, nah, I don't think so.
I
Jon: you were getting ready to, endorse your candidacy for some type of,
political, I was like, this is great.
We
Louie: Oh, breaking news.
Breaking news.
Jon: Yep.
Yep.
New state senator coming your way.
Don: one bit.
I like playing golf and then, Vicky and I wanna travel a
little bit, but then we have any
Jon: places you guys
Don: Well, we're gonna, we are gonna go to, in March,
we're gonna go to, Costa Rica.
Louie: Oh, nice.
Don: you guys been
Louie: I've always wanted to go.
Never
Jon: going in a month.
Don: Where are you going to?
Jon: right outside of Tamarindo.
So on the Pacific side,
Don: yeah, I have no idea.
my daughter and her husband went there for, their honeymoon to Los Catalinas.
I don't know where it's at.
Okay.
But there's this over the top.
Resort there.
And so I'm gonna take Vicki to go over the top.
So this goes back to us being, porous church mice.
we didn't take a ton of vacations every year.
like my friend across the
Jon: oh, you're shooting at me.
I mean, come
Louie: He's not talking about me buddy.
I don't go anywhere.
Jon: all those union negotiated benefits.
All right.
I mean,
Don: Yeah.
And so, yeah, mine revolve around conferences or something like that.
But anyway, so, so we're gonna, I'm gonna take my wife on a trip to Costa Rica, but,
we like Vegas a lot too, so, we'll she'll do that and dabble in probably, gamble all
of my retirement away, all my ICMA stuff or my 4 57, but no, so we'll do something
like that and play a little bit of golf.
If I get for near to get me to go to, Ravenna, that would always be good.
But, and then we have our little grandkids.
Oh, yeah.
So, Avery's 10 months and, Nico's six weeks old.
All of a sudden being a grandparent, you found a new love in your life.
It's pretty cool.
Everyone
Jon: talked to says it's always better the second time around.
just from the way that you view at life things, like all the things that you were
so in it at the beginning and you're just worried about not messing up or you're
just worried about all these small things.
You kind of miss, like the little things that really matter.
And the second time you get to appreciate all those little things
that much more because for one, it's gonna be okay, but now you've
got this parenting skill already.
Like, oh, it's not that bad.
This is gonna be
Don: okay.
Yeah, it will be okay
Jon: get to spoil 'em and all these other
Louie: my mom is a completely different person.
She used to be like, I don't care if you want this for dinner,
this is what you're eating.
Or you go to bed hungry.
And then she'll, I see her how she interacts with my children
and she's like, oh, that's okay.
I'll, yeah, I'll eat, I'll.
Take the, you know, this sandwich away and make you a brand new one with this on it.
Or I'll change this around for you.
It's okay.
You don't have to eat that.
And I'm like, who are you?
Like, that's not how you
Don: Oh, it raise
Jon: Yeah, it's you get the opportunity to maybe improve what you would've
done before, or you just look at things through a different lens and
if this is the littlest thing that's gonna make this person happy, then by
Don: all means.
Oh yeah.
Trust me.
I, they both have me around their little finger.
they've got their papa around a little, their little fingers.
But yeah, it's, they are, they can do no wrong.
And we've already had, even at 10 months and six weeks, we've already had
the chat that I'll take care of 'em.
Don't worry.
Jon: That'll
Louie: Oh yeah.
Nice.
Don: Nice.
Jon: And I hope your kids appreciate just how much of a blessing that
is to have immediate family nearby to help step in and whatever life
brings at you, it's an amazing gift.
we've had some of that flexibility to some degree.
but it is an amazing gift.
I know there's a lot of people that are envious of that position to be in there.
And I'm really happy that you get the opportunity to spend some time
on, quite frankly, really matters.
And you get to, make up.
'cause you've been, you've missed a lot of things, being in this
job for one as firefighters and holidays and all the other things,
and especially at the beginning, you don't have a ton of time off.
And then obviously as you've moved up, to the fire chief, like the level of
responsibility and you've taken it to a whole nother level, is always being
on call, answering that phone twenty four seven, all that other stuff.
I know you talked about a little bit, but are you worried at all.
Not that your identity is tied up as being the fire chief, but are you worried
about just, I have to imagine there has to be a certain amount of reset
time where you are not constantly going to be looking at your phone or going
through something just because that has been such a large part of your license,
especially for the last 14 years.
not that you're gonna feel irrelevant, but just like that constant of always
being on, or do you feel like you've got some pretty good outlets and
you're just ready for that transition?
Don: When I say a thought about this a lot, I don't think about,
you know, how many days I have left.
Yeah.
'cause I'd be a mess.
and so I don't think from that perspective, but what I do think about
is that so a lot of that goes about, it goes back to, the organization in essence
needing me, that if I go, it's gonna fall apart and all this other stuff.
and so I've really thought about this a lot is, I couldn't be, I couldn't
be more proud of who West Metro is, what they are, what we've all become.
And I say that because we've worked really well together for so many
years to build what we have today.
And somebody said, as we were looking for the new fire chief, they go, God,
I, we need to find another Don Lombardi.
And I said, please, no, I.
Absolutely not.
We need to find someone that understands all the things we went through.
So if you think of when I became the fire chief that, we had the two suicides and,
Mike Miller's death that, was sudden.
That kind of came really quick.
And then, and then right after that, the financial difficulties that the
district had and the reorganization we did from that, and then we
merged up and did all these things.
And so I want someone to understand all of the things that we went through to
get to this point of greatness that we are today, and then build upon that.
And so that's where, from my perspective, I don't, I'm not worried about that.
I think that we, the organization is in a unbelievably great spot
when you look at our culture here.
Can we get better?
The answer is yes.
I mean, we all, that's what we all, we always look for continuous improvement.
But if you look at it.
I think, I really do think that we are a family here.
And interestingly enough, I got an article the other day from somebody
that's a high level in the fire service and the article was about how family
is a bad, thing for the fire service.
Jon: don't wanna analogize it like that.
Like somehow that's not
Don: correct, that it was bad.
Like, so if you think of a, if you've got a brother that's got a drinking problem
that we, that as a family member, we try to, we, try to coddle them and don't take
care of them and try to, condone what they do and, and not do the tough love
stuff or from, from other perspectives of not facing up to problems we have.
And I.
And so I fired, it was a group email, and I fired back and I said, I absolutely
disagree with this because here at West Metro we do, I, and this is me
speaking, I think that we do believe that we are a family, truly a family
that where we do take care of each other, but in the right way, if we see
somebody struggling or if we see somebody needs help or someone's not meeting
the expectations that we have, that we help them along to either get better
or meet or exceed those expectations.
I think that we may have some instances, but rarely do they
fall through the cracks here.
Yeah.
And that we, that people know that we can grab you and say,
Louis, I see you're struggling.
Can I help you out?
Or.
if they see something that's good's happening, that we acknowledge
that and we praise that and that we celebrate those types of things.
So I think for us, from a family perspective is such, is that's really a
hallmark of who we are here at West Metro.
So when I tell people, the people go, oh, are you really sad about leaving?
I'm, yeah, sad 'cause I'll miss people, but not sad.
I'm so proud of what this place is and all of the work that we've
all done to get to this point.
and I'm thrilled and I'll call you all from.
the Caribbean beach with the, my tie in my hand and say how proud I am of
Jon: Los Catalinas.
Here we are.
Yeah.
Don: years from now and stuff.
No, just to tell, because I think that there's the trajectory that we're on,
but all the, that you guys all demand from the organization and what you demand
from leadership here and then you are a part of leadership here to understand
what those responsibilities are, I think is gonna put us in such a good spot.
So for me is, people go, are you sad about this?
I go, no, I'm really not.
And I, and people go, well, can you disassociate?
I think I can.
We'll see when it happens.
I don't think I'm gonna look at Pulse point every single minute or run
over to my computer to pull up CAD to see what's happening on that a,
that abandoned building fire at at the service station that we've been
20 times, those types of things.
And so, so I don't, I think we'll be good.
Louie: Yeah.
I, and I think we all can disagree with that.
in terms of that email, this is a family, and I think a lot of companies will
use that as like a generic tagline.
It's like, oh, we're like family here.
But I mean, the difference in the fire service and with our fire
department is that we are a family.
We live together.
we cook together, we do everything together.
We know each other.
really well.
We know about our struggles, our financial situation.
I'll, just a personal example of that.
I like, there's a guy that I work with now at Station three.
His name is TJ Rashi, and he,
Don: yeah, shout out to
Louie: but he and I, we went to the academy together.
I know his wife and his three girls, he knows my wife and my three sons.
we just know each other really well and we are like family.
And I think that's important for our families to know that because if he's
ever in a bad situation, which in our job, we sometimes we go into bad situations
with each other, and his family needs to know that I will do everything that I
can to make sure that he comes home safe and that he will do everything to make
sure I get to go home safe to my family.
And that's the kind of family you want.
That's the kind of work family you want when you are going there that, hey, I
don't know if he's gonna go into bad situation today, but I know that he's got
guys that love him, that care about him and that will do everything that they can.
It's the same thing with Reed.
Norwood, our captain, he was the same way.
Like he knows our families and he knows that he's gonna get his home to them.
I, you gotta have that If you don't have that culture, I wouldn't
wanna work in that kind of a.
Fire
Jon: And there's a certain level of dysfunction in every family.
Right.
Don: No,
Jon: the part
Louie: put the fun, we put the fun in
Don: that's
Jon: what makes it true.
I mean, we have some dysfunction as well, and that is part of that family
environment that through thick and thin at the end of the, at the end of the day,
it's really measuring what your heart's about and what your true feelings are.
and advocating for people and supporting them and respecting them
and getting them across whatever proverbial finish line that may be.
But, yeah, to say that, that is not a good analogy.
Don: I think there'd be a lot of people that would,
Jon: that would,
Don: yeah.
It just, it, and I, and I tell people this a lot.
I said, I say, as a family, we do have some funny uncles and we
do have some quirky aunts, but we all love each other 'cause we
all will take care of each other.
And when you look at that, I try to explain to, people outside of our
organization, I said, just like you said, we work together, we sleep together.
I'm sorry, we,
Jon: He's like, can you edit that
Don: out?
Yes.
We, we lived together at
Louie: we lived together.
Yeah.
Don: Live together.
and then for some odd reason, we all play together.
And so we're together a lot.
And that's why that family thing is very important.
I did it with the, with the chiefs here.
To get them back in a place where they understood each other.
We did that.
Simon Sinek start with Why, and we did it organizationally.
Simon Sinek, start with Why Do you remember that?
And so very clearly, one of the things, the, in the, and if you have, if
again, to the podcast world, if you get a chance to look at the, Ted Talk,
Simon Sinek start with why is to watch that and answer questions in there.
But one of the things they ask is, what drives you?
What gets you up in the morning?
we brought everybody together from, we had what, 40 some odd
people in each group and did Yeah.
And did this together.
And I, we put up all their answers.
And so what got people up in the morning?
the main thing was their family at home.
What was oddly close in numbers.
within one or two of each group was their, west Metro family and their crew.
what that said to me was that, and it was interesting 'cause people would
say, I was at station three on a shift and we were as close could be.
And then I got promoted, I moved over to, station four on C shift.
And you know what, we were just as close.
So what that told me was that as a mature organization we were very much closely
connected and that's allowed us to do a lot of our workplace respect, and to.
To understand that and to cultivate our workplace respect, which in
turn makes us that much closer.
Because if people feel like this is their place, west Metro is my place.
I belong there.
This is who I am, this is what I believe in, and that they feel safe here to do
all those things, then in turn, that makes that family even more tight.
And then in turn, we can provide better service to our citizens
because we trust each other.
We get along with each other, we know each other.
we, anticipate each other.
All of those things gives us a better ability to serve our community
while still being tight here.
it's a funny circle.
Jon: we're gonna wrap up here, but I think it's, we wanna give you the
opportunity, chief Lombardi, last word.
So we're, you're imparting 33 years of wisdom in the fire service and
really a subject matter expert when it comes to kind of all things chiefly.
but is there anyone that you want to acknowledge that has helped you per
either personally or professionally along your 33 years as a firefighter
and getting ready for retirement?
I'm sure the list is long, but I'm sure there's probably a few people that
you would say, without their support this would not have been possible.
Boy, I hope I get when I say this.
I have to think, obviously, building a base was, you know, when was I growing up?
My parents, built a base.
and my parents and my dad especially, supported us loudly
of being an Italian family.
we would, I would, every sporting event that I had, my dad was there
and it was the loudest and people would go, does that embarrass you?
Go, no, I feel like someone's there supporting me, and maybe that's why
I feel like we're supported here.
But, as we go along, obviously my family, my wife has been super,
super supportive of what I've done.
I couldn't be the fire chief without her.
and, but you couldn't be a lieutenant here, and you couldn't be a
firefighter here to do all this stuff without, your family support
to allow you to do what you do.
Louie: Amen.
Of that.
Don: You know?
and Vicky's been, when I say times, yesterday was Mother's Day.
I had to get up in the middle of Mother's Day and go take a call for
something that was going on within the organization just because it
needed, and she doesn't mind that.
And my kids growing up, understood that too, that I may have to go in the
middle of the night to a second alarm fire or that I couldn't go to a school
thing because of what's going on here.
They understood the importance of that.
So having that support have allowed me to do those things.
Made it easier to be the fire chief here at West Metro.
And then, when you look at, people that have influenced me along the
way, I will say this, I think it, the people that have influenced
me the greatest are members here.
because, I saw, I mean, and not that when.
When we got on, when I got hired here at Lakewood Bancroft.
But you know, we were going through the merger at the time and they were
thinking of splitting up and, there wasn't too much of an identity.
And as we, as I grew up within this organization and saw the leadership
that we had, and you look at, labor leaders like we had, that, that
really professed collaboration.
And so when you look at somebody like a Greg Strauss Heim, that was union
president from Bancroft that really said, we need to do more togetherness
as opposed to punching each other.
we saw that, that worked.
And then I look as we grew up, people that, helped me create a path
or, Mike Verne and Scott Rogers, and, all of those folks really.
help develop a lot what we do here at West Metro.
And then I'd be re remiss to say, looking at somebody like Gary Armstrong, so full
disclosure, who's my brother-in-law, had he not called me up and said, I know
you always wanted to be a firefighter.
we're looking to hire.
And I was a school teacher teaching kindergarten through second grade PE
that had he not called up and said, Hey, do you want to come over and put
a lot of faith in me to say, I want you to be part of my organization.
I'll never be able to repay him for that of him doing that with me.
And we all know, if you don't know Gary Armstrong, look him up.
But here in the, yeah, here in West Metro, you look at somebody
that's got great humility, but it's got so much confidence in what he
does and the respect that he has.
he's always been really a guiding light for me as we go along.
But I go back to the membership in general, that.
Really, I've learned so much of how to be a leader because
of the membership that we have.
I talk about this when I promote folks, I talk, we talk about stewardship and
I know there's organizations around us.
and I get to see around the country that have these people
that, that go above and beyond.
I get calls and emails.
I got an email that said from this lady that said, I saw that you were
over at my elderly neighbor's house.
She said, before I could yell at my husband to go shovel
snow to get you guys in.
You guys had already done it.
or a lady you picked up my dad.
He went to the grocery store.
He lives by himself.
You picked him up 'cause he had a seizure and he knocked his head
and she said, I would've never known you were there, had he.
Told me that, that you guys were there.
She said you put away his groceries and you cleaned up the mess.
at Station one, which is in our busiest part of our district, they went on
a guy, they see a lot, And they, his only mode of transportation was a bike.
And he would go to work using this bike while he got in an auto bike accident
and it mangled up his bike station.
One crew, realized that 'cause they knew him, they transported to
the hospital, the engine went over to Walmart and bought him a bike.
They pulled all their money, bought a bike.
I don't stand up here and thanks for coming mobile to my office in
this really cool office with all these windows and pound my chest
and say, you guys have to be nice.
You all do that.
And it's not, like I said, there's other organizations
that have people that do that.
We do that.
Across the board and that shows what's in your heart.
That's who you are.
and we could easily go on these calls, a medical call, transport hard stop, go
back to the station, and I wanna say, do training and, look up protocols and
do all these things and play pickleball.
Yeah.
Jon: we got some cards to play.
Let's be honest.
dish has gotta be done.
Louie: It's gotta do it.
Jon: we got some cards
Don: play, which by the, which, by the way, I did really well at Station 10
the other day on Kings in the Corner.
Yeah.
Did great.
Shout out to Kings in the Corner.
we do this all the time.
I hear people that put up lights, 'cause somebody fell while they're putting up
their Christmas lights, trim trees, Andy debell, finishing, mowing the lawn, those
types, you all do this across the board.
And it's not because of me, it's because of you all and what's in your heart.
So what I get outta being a leader here at West Metro and being the fire chief is.
I see all of you and how you all lead, and that inspires me greatly every single day.
That's what I think sets us apart from all other organizations is, that you all
believe, you all get why you're here.
just one really quick thing, if, have you guys read Good To Great.
the book Good to Great.
So do you remember the flywheel concept in Good to Great, flywheel's this big, huge
piece of machinery and it's, it's hard to move, but once it's moving what happens?
It has great momentum.
And so when I first became the Fire Chief, I felt like I was pushing the flywheel
by myself and it was hard, really hard.
And then I look over and I see, Firefighters and chiefs and civilian
staff, all of a sudden they're pushing and they're pushing harder than I am.
And that flywheel now has that momentum where I think we're in a good spot.
So that's cool.
from a leadership perspective, I feed off of all of you and what you all do.
Jon: That's a great, that's a great way to leave it.
Those are some good closing statements, if you will.
thank you Chief for your time.
You're a tough man to track down, but thank
Don: you
Jon: for giving us this hour and a half roughly of, really some good knowledge and
some good education, some good experience.
you've been here for a long time.
We're surely gonna miss you, but we know that your next venture is gonna
be all the better the next chapter.
So thank you sir for your time.
Louis.
Louie: Yeah, I just wanna say, and this is not an insult.
This is probably the best compliment you can get once you retire.
This department is gonna be just fine without you, and that's because
we're strong and we're healthy.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for setting us up for that.
We appreciate it.
And like my partner said, we appreciate your time and your effort to this podcast.
It's been great.
Don: So can I ask, can I just have one ask?
Jon: Yeah, absolutely.
Don: So two years from now, we'll do two years from now will you call me up
and see how retirement is and see if all the planning that I did made sense?
Jon: we will follow up.
And actually, so there was two, I think there's two good segments
that we got as far as next episodes or potential episodes.
So kind of money relationships I think is one, but I think one that is often
overlooked and something that you and Vicki have discussed is just like
that reentering into we're gonna be spending a lot of time with each other.
So not just, you know, we were married and you're going off to work, but now
that you're now retired and coming back to the home where I'm used to you being
gone for two days is a real transition.
And that's something that we can probably find some educated guests that can give
us some of their lived experiences.
But I think that would be another great, episode in edition.
So we've got two
Louie: we'll check in on you though, we'll check in.
Don: We'll,
Jon: gonna be in Costa Rica
Don: Yeah.
I'll call you from there.
Call me and, and to see, how it is to be out a fixed income.
Jon: There you go.
A true pensioner.
All right, so that's gonna wrap it up.
Thanks for everyone for listening to a, another episode of the fiscal Firehouse.
Louis, how do they get ahold of us?
Louie: if you have any questions or if you have any ideas for future podcast
episodes, you can always email us at Ask fiscal firehouse@gmail.com,
and you can also find us on Instagram at, at fiscal Firehouse, and we'll
take your messages from there too.
Jon: Beautiful, everyone stay safe out there and
Louie: keep saving.
Disclosure: The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is a podcast curated
specifically for local 1309 members.
This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only,
and should not be construed as professional financial advice.
Should you need professional advice, consult a licensed
financial advisor or tax advisor.
The opinions of John Beatty, Louis Barilla and their castmates are
solely their own, and don't reflect that of West Metro Fire Rescue.