WEBVTT

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the Privacy Guides community and

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this week's top stories in the data

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privacy and cybersecurity space,

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including Meta's AI glasses are getting

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creepier somehow,

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vulnerabilities in popular cloud-based

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password managers,

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reminders about the privacy concerns of

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AI, and more.

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I'm Nate,

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and with me this week is Jordan.

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Hello, Jordan.

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How are you?

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I'm good, thanks.

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Ready to dive into this week's top stories

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in data privacy and cybersecurity.

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All righty.

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Before we do that,

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for those of you just joining us,

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Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

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researches and shares privacy-related

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information and facilitates a community on

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our forum and matrix where people can ask

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questions and get advice about staying

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private online and preserving their

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digital rights.

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One more quick piece of business before we

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jump in.

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We want to thank misanthropic forty two on

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YouTube for becoming a member.

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If you become a member on YouTube,

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you get videos a week early.

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It gets you a little badge in the

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chat.

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And if you want to support us and

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you don't use YouTube,

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we will talk about how to do that

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a little bit later.

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But first,

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we're going to jump into our story about

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Meta's facial recognition glasses.

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Jordan,

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why don't you go ahead and take it

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away?

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Yes,

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so for anyone who's sort of out of

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the loop,

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Meta has been creating a new smart glasses

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brand for the last couple of years now.

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And now they've announced their plans to

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add facial recognition to its smart

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glasses.

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Basically how these glasses worked before

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was that they had a camera built in

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and they allowed you to record and do

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sorts of

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you know, smart activities on them.

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But now they're planning to add facial

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recognition.

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So quoting from this article by The New

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York Times here, five years ago,

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Facebook shut down the facial recognition

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system for tagging people in photos on its

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social network,

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saying it wanted to find the right balance

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for a technology that raises privacy and

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legal concerns.

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Now it wants to bring facial recognition

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back.

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Meta, Facebook's parent company,

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plans to add the feature to its smart

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glasses,

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which it makes with the owner of Ray-Ban

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and Oakley.

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As soon as this year,

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according to four people involved with

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plans who are not authorized to speak

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publicly about confidential discussions,

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the feature, internally called NameTag,

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would let wearers of smart glasses

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identify people and get information about

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them via Meta's artificial intelligence

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assistant.

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Meta's plans could change.

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The Silicon Valley company has been

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conferring since early last year about how

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to release a feature that carries safety

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and privacy risks,

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according to an internal document viewed

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by the New York Times.

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The document from May described plans to

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first release name tag to attendees of a

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conference for the blind,

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which the company did not do last year

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before making it available to the general

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public.

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Meta's internal memo said the political

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tumult in the United States was good

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timing for the feature's release.

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Really?

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Really?

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I don't know about that.

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We will launch during the dynamic

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political environment where many civil

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society groups that would expect to attack

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us would have their resources focused on

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other concerns,

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according to the document from Meta

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Reality Labs, which works on hardware,

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including smart glasses.

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So I guess this is sort of,

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we should say from a privacy perspective,

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having glasses that you can just basically

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walk around and record people.

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It does have, you know,

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protections against recording people,

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obviously.

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Like there are...

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a single light on one side of the

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glasses,

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which is meant to alert somebody if

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they're being recorded.

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But it's extremely common for people to

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basically do a DIY hack to disable the

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light so they can record people without

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their consent.

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And I think this would also be quite

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a huge problem if we are using facial

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recognition on

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glasses because, again,

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you would be able to use the glasses

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to identify people without their consent

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and they wouldn't know that they're being

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recorded or being identified.

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I think it goes without saying, though,

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this is definitely meta glasses were

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already creepy and this is just a move

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to make them even more creepy and invade

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people's privacy.

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So there was,

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I don't know if people remembered,

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but there was a

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a video floating around a couple of years

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ago,

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and just quoting from the New York Times

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article here,

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MetaSmart glasses have been used to

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identify people before.

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In twenty twenty four,

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two Harvard students used Ray-Ban Metas

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with a commercial facial recognition tool

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called PMIs to identify strangers on the

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subway in Boston,

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and then they released a viral video about

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it.

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At the time,

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Meta pointed to the importance of a small

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white LED light on the top right corner

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of the frames that indicates to people

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that the user is recording.

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So I think this is an extremely flimsy

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response,

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especially because of how easy it is to

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disable and cover.

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I think

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That's a little bit ridiculous that that's

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the only protection that the company is

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sort of pointing to.

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So yeah,

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basically this is what they're saying,

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the AI assistant.

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So metasmart glasses require a wearer to

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activate them to ask the AI assistant a

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question or to take a photo or video.

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The company is also working on glasses

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internally called super sensing that would

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continually run cameras and sensors to

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keep a record of someone's day,

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similar to how AI note takers summarize a

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video call meetings,

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three people involved with the plan said.

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And they're saying that the facial

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recognition would be a key feature for

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super sensing glasses.

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So they could, for example,

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remind wearers of tasks when they saw a

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colleague.

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Mark Zuckerberg has questioned if the

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glasses should keep their LED light on to

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show people that they are using the super

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sensing feature or if they should use

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another signal.

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One person involved with the plan said,

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I think this is

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Obviously there needs to be more

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protections,

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but I think this sort of tool shouldn't

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actually be allowed, right?

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Because I feel like a lot of the

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laws we have around like photography and

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recording in public spaces is it's based

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on very old things, right?

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Like back,

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fifty years ago when people were

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journalists.

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The only people that had cameras were

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journalists taking photos for, you know,

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newspapers and stuff like that.

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That obviously makes sense,

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but basically recording every single

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person you interact with and then using

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facial recognition on them is clearly an

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invasion of not only that person's

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privacy,

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but everyone you're interacting with,

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so...

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I can't believe that uh they would

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actually consider putting this out it kind

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of makes sense because you know like they

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said they're trying to push it out at

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a time when people aren't as fully engaged

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on this stuff and I'm sure this is

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what a lot of companies do when they're

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pushing out a lot of these um awful

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stuff so yeah that's sort of what I

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was those were my primary thoughts on this

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but um Nate do you have any thoughts

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um after having a look at this article

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I have several as usual, um,

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where to begin, uh,

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I guess just to add a little bit

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more, um,

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a little bit more of the facts to

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the context of this, actually, no,

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let me start with this.

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This is a solution in search of a

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problem.

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And the reason I say that, uh,

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for people who disagree with me for some

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reason, um,

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the reason I say that is because.

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Meta this article details basically that

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this plan is super early in development.

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And meta is really trying to figure out

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what this is going to look like.

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And basically what's happening is open AI

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has announced that they're going to

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release their own glasses for some reason.

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Um,

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cause they keep like any great company,

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they keep adding things.

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Nobody asked for it to a product that

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everybody was perfectly happy with.

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And then I think snap has been wanting

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to release glasses for years as well.

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And, um,

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who I think there's someone else,

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but basically the space is starting to

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have competitors.

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And so they realize like, well,

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we need something that makes us stand out.

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And so now they've literally thrown around

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the facial recognition,

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I think is the leading idea,

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but I want to say there were other

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ideas they were tossing around too.

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And so, yeah,

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there's a lot of different like

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there's a lot of different discussions

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that they're still having internally.

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Like what is this facial recognition gonna

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look like?

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Like, for example,

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they say here in the article,

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possible options include recognizing

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people a user knows because they are

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connected on a meta platform.

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So like, for example,

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if you're friends with somebody

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on Instagram and you're out shopping and

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they walk past you in the grocery store,

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your glasses will ping and be like, Oh,

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Hey, that's that person.

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Which to me is ridiculous because like,

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I don't necessarily need to know every

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time one of my friends walks past me.

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And also like,

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what if you're really not that close?

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Like there's just,

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there's so many problems with this.

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And, um,

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I've actually had this happen to me.

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Not obviously not with this, but, uh,

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years and years and years ago,

00:09:58.354 --> 00:10:01.716
I befriended somebody on Tumblr and yes,

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I used to use Tumblr once upon a

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time.

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And then

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I think we ended up like texting or

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something.

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And then they showed up on my people

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you may know on Facebook.

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And this was years before I ever cared

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about privacy.

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I think this was even before Snowden.

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And even back then I was like,

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that feels really creepy.

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And that feels like too much.

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And I'm really uncomfortable with that.

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And just, I don't know, like, and that's,

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again, these are people, you know,

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these are people, quote unquote,

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these are people you're somehow connected

00:10:28.099 --> 00:10:28.239
to.

00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:29.799
And how long before Meta just starts

00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:30.860
rolling this out in general,

00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.280
where it goes into like, it's not just,

00:10:33.341 --> 00:10:34.581
you know, you're connected on Facebook.

00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:36.041
It's because that's how it started, right?

00:10:36.081 --> 00:10:37.841
Like Facebook was your feed of people you

00:10:37.861 --> 00:10:38.201
follow.

00:10:38.562 --> 00:10:39.942
And then it became, you know,

00:10:40.562 --> 00:10:42.822
somebody you tangentially know,

00:10:43.003 --> 00:10:44.123
like a friend of a friend.

00:10:44.163 --> 00:10:46.062
And now you're seeing posts that people

00:10:46.143 --> 00:10:47.403
liked that you don't even follow that

00:10:47.423 --> 00:10:47.724
page.

00:10:47.764 --> 00:10:49.504
And how long before this turns into that?

00:10:49.794 --> 00:10:53.275
where people are showing up in your little

00:10:53.336 --> 00:10:55.356
glasses HUD, your heads up display,

00:10:55.397 --> 00:10:56.897
just because you're tangentially connected

00:10:56.956 --> 00:10:57.336
somehow.

00:10:58.677 --> 00:10:59.298
So yeah,

00:10:59.798 --> 00:11:01.177
I just wanna point that out first.

00:11:03.479 --> 00:11:04.818
I also, I need to point out,

00:11:04.918 --> 00:11:06.399
I wanna point this out every single time.

00:11:08.681 --> 00:11:11.802
They invented or discovered, I don't know.

00:11:11.822 --> 00:11:13.241
I don't know if they invented it,

00:11:13.282 --> 00:11:16.163
but they workshopped facial recognition

00:11:17.101 --> 00:11:19.724
years ago, years and years and years ago.

00:11:20.124 --> 00:11:21.605
And they shelved it because it was too

00:11:21.625 --> 00:11:22.565
creepy, even for them.

00:11:23.225 --> 00:11:24.885
And then once clear view AI came along,

00:11:25.005 --> 00:11:25.986
suddenly they were cool with it.

00:11:26.567 --> 00:11:27.567
And so I just need to point that

00:11:27.628 --> 00:11:29.869
out that like meta has no moral compass,

00:11:30.269 --> 00:11:32.129
which that quote was probably indicative.

00:11:32.149 --> 00:11:32.990
I'll get to the quote again in a

00:11:33.051 --> 00:11:33.250
second.

00:11:33.650 --> 00:11:36.332
Meta has no moral compass and they

00:11:36.373 --> 00:11:37.754
basically just wait for something to

00:11:37.774 --> 00:11:40.975
become socially acceptable enough that

00:11:41.034 --> 00:11:41.796
it's okay.

00:11:41.995 --> 00:11:42.135
Okay.

00:11:42.355 --> 00:11:44.035
Like meta would probably popularize the

00:11:44.076 --> 00:11:45.236
Hunger Games if they thought they could

00:11:45.256 --> 00:11:45.717
get away with it.

00:11:45.758 --> 00:11:46.298
They don't care.

00:11:46.337 --> 00:11:47.099
They just want a dollar,

00:11:47.658 --> 00:11:49.660
which is shown in just to state it

00:11:49.681 --> 00:11:52.243
again, that quote,

00:11:52.383 --> 00:11:53.683
I actually laughed when you read that,

00:11:53.724 --> 00:11:54.565
Jordan, in your response.

00:11:54.585 --> 00:11:55.284
You're like, really?

00:11:55.365 --> 00:11:56.206
Are you sure about that?

00:11:56.446 --> 00:11:57.047
Because like, oh,

00:11:57.067 --> 00:11:58.347
we're going to launch during a dynamic

00:11:58.368 --> 00:11:59.708
political environment where many civil

00:11:59.729 --> 00:12:01.409
liberty groups that we would expect to

00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:02.610
attack us would have the resources.

00:12:02.871 --> 00:12:04.092
Like they literally said the quiet part

00:12:04.133 --> 00:12:04.432
out loud.

00:12:04.472 --> 00:12:04.913
Like, hey,

00:12:05.192 --> 00:12:06.474
now's the perfect time to do this because

00:12:06.514 --> 00:12:08.015
we know that nobody's going to like this

00:12:08.316 --> 00:12:09.297
and they're going to be busy paying

00:12:09.317 --> 00:12:11.357
attention to everything else that is wrong

00:12:11.378 --> 00:12:11.839
in the world.

00:12:12.259 --> 00:12:13.340
And we can do our evil thing.

00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.782
It's like cartoon villains are less

00:12:17.082 --> 00:12:18.644
cartoonishly evil than that.

00:12:18.764 --> 00:12:19.004
I just,

00:12:19.125 --> 00:12:20.265
I don't know how else to put it.

00:12:21.886 --> 00:12:22.847
But the last thing I want to touch

00:12:22.908 --> 00:12:25.169
on is you mentioned that story that was

00:12:25.190 --> 00:12:26.471
originally covered by four Oh four,

00:12:26.530 --> 00:12:28.312
where when metal launched their Ray-Ban

00:12:28.332 --> 00:12:28.812
glasses,

00:12:29.413 --> 00:12:30.595
they didn't have facial recognition

00:12:30.634 --> 00:12:31.796
hooked, hooked into them originally.

00:12:32.336 --> 00:12:33.918
And some researchers hooked it up to PIM

00:12:34.018 --> 00:12:34.238
eyes and,

00:12:34.644 --> 00:12:36.145
and started identifying random people on

00:12:36.166 --> 00:12:36.647
the subway.

00:12:37.147 --> 00:12:39.950
And Meta got super pissed about this

00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:42.211
coverage because they told four oh four,

00:12:42.272 --> 00:12:44.033
they're like, well, that's not us.

00:12:44.092 --> 00:12:45.114
The researchers did that.

00:12:45.193 --> 00:12:46.875
We have this quote unquote safety feature

00:12:46.916 --> 00:12:48.638
built in, which is a little light.

00:12:48.677 --> 00:12:50.519
That's apparently super easy to bypass it.

00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:51.360
To be fair,

00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:52.880
it's a little bit more advanced than like

00:12:52.900 --> 00:12:53.881
just put a piece of tape over it.

00:12:53.902 --> 00:12:55.123
Apparently you can tell when you do that,

00:12:55.182 --> 00:12:56.264
but it's not hard to do.

00:12:56.303 --> 00:12:57.846
There's tutorials online everywhere.

00:12:58.446 --> 00:12:58.846
And, you know,

00:12:58.886 --> 00:13:00.888
we've got safety features and we don't do

00:13:00.927 --> 00:13:01.187
that.

00:13:01.227 --> 00:13:01.808
And, you know,

00:13:01.828 --> 00:13:03.289
there's always going to be bad people who

00:13:03.330 --> 00:13:04.270
do things with technology.

00:13:04.311 --> 00:13:06.732
Like they were so defensive and like,

00:13:06.812 --> 00:13:10.134
how dare you accuse us of doing something

00:13:10.235 --> 00:13:11.096
so nefarious?

00:13:11.416 --> 00:13:12.777
And now they're doing the exact same

00:13:12.797 --> 00:13:13.018
thing.

00:13:13.498 --> 00:13:15.318
And how long before somebody finds a way

00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:16.620
to jailbreak this?

00:13:17.400 --> 00:13:19.783
And now it doesn't just show people you

00:13:19.842 --> 00:13:20.183
know.

00:13:20.703 --> 00:13:22.485
Now it does exactly what those researchers

00:13:22.505 --> 00:13:22.686
did,

00:13:22.765 --> 00:13:24.006
except you just made it a thousand times

00:13:24.047 --> 00:13:25.288
easier because the capability is already

00:13:25.307 --> 00:13:25.568
there.

00:13:25.908 --> 00:13:27.009
They just have to jailbreak it.

00:13:27.450 --> 00:13:27.791
And I mean,

00:13:28.991 --> 00:13:29.952
I hope we don't have to say the

00:13:29.993 --> 00:13:30.452
obvious here,

00:13:30.493 --> 00:13:32.355
but like this will be used for stalkers.

00:13:32.654 --> 00:13:34.236
This will be used for, you know,

00:13:34.956 --> 00:13:35.157
I mean,

00:13:35.177 --> 00:13:36.278
mainly I think that's the big one.

00:13:36.378 --> 00:13:37.458
I'm sure it'll be used for all kinds

00:13:37.479 --> 00:13:38.059
of other things.

00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:40.101
And it's, I don't know,

00:13:40.142 --> 00:13:41.123
this is just so like,

00:13:42.836 --> 00:13:43.996
don't even know what to say this this

00:13:44.017 --> 00:13:46.038
just to me seems like such an obviously

00:13:46.077 --> 00:13:49.538
bad idea and an overstep and again just

00:13:49.558 --> 00:13:51.000
that quote the fact that they just said

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.600
the quiet part out loud i don't even

00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:53.942
know where to go from there it's like

00:13:53.981 --> 00:13:55.701
they they've shown their true colors as

00:13:55.743 --> 00:13:59.083
being downright evil um real quick they

00:13:59.283 --> 00:14:01.946
they actually let me share this real quick

00:14:02.066 --> 00:14:05.788
eff did notice despite despite meta's best

00:14:05.827 --> 00:14:08.749
efforts eff noticed and uh they wrote this

00:14:08.769 --> 00:14:10.470
blog post called seven billion reasons for

00:14:10.509 --> 00:14:12.030
facebook to abandon space recognition

00:14:12.071 --> 00:14:12.350
plans

00:14:12.964 --> 00:14:14.304
And what did they say at the,

00:14:14.365 --> 00:14:15.365
I think it was at the end here.

00:14:16.846 --> 00:14:17.066
Yeah.

00:14:17.365 --> 00:14:18.625
Meta's conclusion that it can avoid

00:14:18.686 --> 00:14:20.287
scrutiny by releasing a privacy invasive

00:14:20.307 --> 00:14:21.787
product during a time of political crisis

00:14:22.047 --> 00:14:23.988
is craven and morally bankrupt.

00:14:24.869 --> 00:14:26.129
And that was like such a good way

00:14:26.149 --> 00:14:26.548
to put it.

00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:29.710
Like there is absolutely no way anyone at

00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:31.711
Meta can pretend to have a shred of

00:14:31.811 --> 00:14:34.292
ethics right now because nobody with a

00:14:34.331 --> 00:14:35.491
moral compass would do this.

00:14:35.513 --> 00:14:37.173
It's just, yeah,

00:14:37.273 --> 00:14:38.453
I think those are all my thoughts.

00:14:38.514 --> 00:14:39.333
That's just so crazy.

00:14:41.601 --> 00:14:44.043
yeah it is kind of surprising especially

00:14:44.083 --> 00:14:45.845
because like i know there's a lot of

00:14:45.884 --> 00:14:48.186
stuff people already concerned about um

00:14:48.326 --> 00:14:51.128
ice agents wearing meta smart glasses and

00:14:51.148 --> 00:14:53.009
then it's like now they're planning on

00:14:53.048 --> 00:14:55.490
adding facial recognition i don't know it

00:14:55.510 --> 00:15:00.453
just seems very like dystopian very creepy

00:15:01.094 --> 00:15:02.975
um i think people need to be a

00:15:02.995 --> 00:15:04.655
little bit more loud about this because

00:15:04.696 --> 00:15:05.856
there's people that are

00:15:07.557 --> 00:15:09.037
I don't know if we're reading the,

00:15:09.336 --> 00:15:11.238
I was reading through information about

00:15:11.278 --> 00:15:13.057
these meta smart glasses,

00:15:13.337 --> 00:15:15.198
like in preparation for this episode.

00:15:15.339 --> 00:15:17.178
And it seems like they're actually selling

00:15:17.298 --> 00:15:17.938
more than ever.

00:15:18.158 --> 00:15:19.899
Like they sold triple the amount that they

00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:20.799
did in twenty three,

00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:21.820
twenty three and twenty,

00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.500
twenty four and twenty, twenty five.

00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.480
So it's kind of concerning how popular

00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:27.301
these things are getting,

00:15:27.341 --> 00:15:29.682
because I think the worst possible outcome

00:15:29.701 --> 00:15:33.442
here is these products are like become a

00:15:33.503 --> 00:15:33.822
very

00:15:36.567 --> 00:15:38.408
popular like thing that a lot of people

00:15:38.447 --> 00:15:40.629
have and that would basically almost

00:15:40.669 --> 00:15:42.530
create like a dragnet surveillance.

00:15:42.591 --> 00:15:44.732
Like we talked about this last week with

00:15:45.273 --> 00:15:48.115
Amazon's, uh, pet searching, uh,

00:15:48.215 --> 00:15:50.356
Amazon rings, uh, pet searching system,

00:15:50.697 --> 00:15:52.378
search party, search party.

00:15:52.498 --> 00:15:52.999
Yes.

00:15:53.339 --> 00:15:55.580
Um, so I think it's, you know,

00:15:55.721 --> 00:15:56.721
it's a similar thing.

00:15:56.780 --> 00:15:57.802
It's like Nate said,

00:15:57.841 --> 00:15:59.363
it's going to always be used for like

00:15:59.442 --> 00:16:01.043
the most nefarious purposes,

00:16:01.304 --> 00:16:04.527
like stalking people or, you know, just,

00:16:05.191 --> 00:16:06.832
I think the fact that if someone could

00:16:06.952 --> 00:16:10.157
identify your name and other information

00:16:10.177 --> 00:16:14.142
about you without your consent is kind of

00:16:14.201 --> 00:16:15.823
going against the whole idea of privacy,

00:16:15.884 --> 00:16:16.043
right?

00:16:16.083 --> 00:16:18.006
Because you should be able to control who

00:16:19.828 --> 00:16:20.809
knows that information.

00:16:21.871 --> 00:16:23.332
And it kind of blurs the line.

00:16:25.486 --> 00:16:25.807
Yes,

00:16:25.886 --> 00:16:27.688
I think it's great that the EFF has

00:16:27.729 --> 00:16:30.191
come out with a like, I guess,

00:16:30.292 --> 00:16:31.673
statement against this.

00:16:31.972 --> 00:16:34.716
And we're really big fans of the EFF.

00:16:34.735 --> 00:16:35.937
So I hope they keep up the great

00:16:35.976 --> 00:16:36.537
work on that.

00:16:36.657 --> 00:16:38.259
And yeah, I mean,

00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.263
I hope that this doesn't become a reality

00:16:42.363 --> 00:16:43.583
because like we said,

00:16:43.624 --> 00:16:44.745
it was part of a plan.

00:16:45.065 --> 00:16:46.606
So I mean, it's still not...

00:16:48.388 --> 00:16:50.772
actually implemented so we can only hope

00:16:50.831 --> 00:16:53.395
that people like Meta will get the idea

00:16:53.475 --> 00:16:55.057
once a lot of this stuff is leaked

00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.860
that this is a really bad idea and

00:16:56.941 --> 00:16:59.345
people really don't want it but I'm kind

00:16:59.365 --> 00:17:01.187
of afraid that some people just

00:17:02.761 --> 00:17:04.123
don't seem to see the issue with a

00:17:04.163 --> 00:17:06.285
lot of this stuff like just how popular

00:17:06.325 --> 00:17:09.048
these smart glasses are already is kind of

00:17:09.107 --> 00:17:14.573
indicative of the climate of people's like

00:17:14.692 --> 00:17:16.595
I guess people caring about their privacy

00:17:16.954 --> 00:17:21.179
so it's kind of a little bit unfortunate

00:17:21.419 --> 00:17:23.641
um but I guess with that being said

00:17:24.662 --> 00:17:26.103
we should move on to the next article

00:17:26.124 --> 00:17:26.584
here Nate

00:17:29.436 --> 00:17:30.017
Alrighty.

00:17:30.357 --> 00:17:30.817
Yeah.

00:17:30.897 --> 00:17:33.038
Let's go ahead and head over to our

00:17:33.118 --> 00:17:33.858
next article,

00:17:33.878 --> 00:17:36.401
which I believe is about password

00:17:36.441 --> 00:17:36.921
managers.

00:17:36.961 --> 00:17:38.182
Yes, it is.

00:17:38.301 --> 00:17:39.422
Let me get this pulled up here.

00:17:40.163 --> 00:17:40.782
Alrighty.

00:17:41.363 --> 00:17:43.443
So several popular, well,

00:17:43.463 --> 00:17:44.244
three specifically,

00:17:44.285 --> 00:17:46.205
three popular password managers fall short

00:17:46.266 --> 00:17:48.106
of quote unquote zero knowledge claims.

00:17:48.686 --> 00:17:50.907
So this came from researchers at ETH

00:17:51.048 --> 00:17:51.508
Zurich,

00:17:52.449 --> 00:17:53.808
which we have seen them do quite a

00:17:53.828 --> 00:17:55.289
bit of good research in the past on

00:17:55.369 --> 00:17:56.750
cryptography and cybersecurity.

00:17:57.471 --> 00:17:59.991
And they did audits with permission of

00:18:00.152 --> 00:18:02.192
Bitwarden, LastPass, and Dashlane.

00:18:02.853 --> 00:18:06.554
And so they basically had a – I

00:18:06.574 --> 00:18:07.575
thought I saw it in here somewhere.

00:18:07.934 --> 00:18:08.674
They had a –

00:18:09.451 --> 00:18:10.511
Yeah, in controlled tests,

00:18:10.551 --> 00:18:12.272
the team was able to recover passwords and

00:18:12.313 --> 00:18:13.814
tamper with vault data,

00:18:14.134 --> 00:18:15.755
challenging longstanding zero-knowledge

00:18:15.775 --> 00:18:17.756
encryption claims made by vendors.

00:18:18.257 --> 00:18:19.817
And then the findings were published in a

00:18:19.857 --> 00:18:21.638
technical paper and disclosed to vendors

00:18:21.739 --> 00:18:23.359
under a coordinated nine-day process.

00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:26.561
So usually the way these audits work is

00:18:26.602 --> 00:18:28.063
the vendor will set up

00:18:29.344 --> 00:18:30.845
basically like a parallel environment,

00:18:30.884 --> 00:18:32.665
but it won't actually have any user data.

00:18:33.145 --> 00:18:33.567
So that way,

00:18:33.646 --> 00:18:34.867
if they do find any problems,

00:18:34.907 --> 00:18:36.429
it's like nobody's actually exposed,

00:18:36.808 --> 00:18:38.170
but now we know these problems exist.

00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:39.570
So they probably did something similar

00:18:39.590 --> 00:18:41.452
here where they set up like a test

00:18:41.472 --> 00:18:44.375
server and ETH Zurich found some pretty

00:18:44.434 --> 00:18:45.236
troubling stuff.

00:18:45.895 --> 00:18:47.676
So unfortunately, Bitwarden did the worst.

00:18:47.717 --> 00:18:49.679
They had twelve attacks against Bitwarden,

00:18:50.078 --> 00:18:51.940
seven against LastPass and six against

00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:52.480
Dashlane.

00:18:52.560 --> 00:18:53.080
And real quick,

00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:55.163
why those three is because apparently

00:18:55.222 --> 00:18:57.564
those three are the most popular password

00:18:57.584 --> 00:18:58.765
managers out there currently.

00:18:59.445 --> 00:19:00.987
And they account for more than sixty

00:19:01.007 --> 00:19:02.728
million users and about twenty three

00:19:02.768 --> 00:19:03.689
percent of the market.

00:19:03.709 --> 00:19:05.990
So those three account for about a quarter

00:19:06.150 --> 00:19:08.332
of all password manager users.

00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:11.681
Um, yeah, if you're watching,

00:19:11.721 --> 00:19:12.421
you can see here,

00:19:12.441 --> 00:19:14.803
there's like a list of the type of

00:19:15.042 --> 00:19:15.903
attacks they found.

00:19:16.063 --> 00:19:17.403
And you can kind of tell the BW

00:19:17.443 --> 00:19:18.003
is Bitwarden.

00:19:18.023 --> 00:19:19.144
The LP is LastPass.

00:19:19.184 --> 00:19:20.345
The DL is Dashlane.

00:19:20.964 --> 00:19:22.006
Um, Bitwarden,

00:19:23.707 --> 00:19:26.147
I should say Bitwarden and Dashlane have

00:19:26.188 --> 00:19:28.328
fixed most of these, I believe.

00:19:29.108 --> 00:19:32.431
Uh, LastPass is working on fixing them.

00:19:32.691 --> 00:19:33.991
The fact that LastPass is still in the

00:19:34.031 --> 00:19:36.133
top three at this point makes me sad.

00:19:37.173 --> 00:19:38.473
But anyways, um,

00:19:39.778 --> 00:19:42.919
Yeah, so it's, well, real quick,

00:19:42.939 --> 00:19:44.358
let me just say, so Bitwarden,

00:19:44.838 --> 00:19:46.558
I personally found their blog post to be

00:19:46.598 --> 00:19:49.180
the best because they did actually give a

00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:51.339
full explanation of all twelve

00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.140
vulnerabilities.

00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:54.480
I believe that they said all of them

00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:56.080
were medium or low impact,

00:19:57.161 --> 00:19:58.780
required an attacker to already have full

00:19:58.800 --> 00:20:00.301
server control, which is worth noting,

00:20:00.321 --> 00:20:04.541
but at the same time, it's, in theory,

00:20:04.602 --> 00:20:05.781
we would hope that these are designed in

00:20:05.821 --> 00:20:06.863
such a way where it doesn't matter.

00:20:06.923 --> 00:20:07.042
Like,

00:20:07.063 --> 00:20:08.482
that's kind of why they did this research

00:20:08.522 --> 00:20:08.603
is,

00:20:10.375 --> 00:20:12.757
Products like Bitwarden, Signal,

00:20:14.959 --> 00:20:15.719
I'm trying to think of some others,

00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.920
Proton, in theory.

00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:17.859
In theory,

00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:19.280
the way these products are designed is

00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:21.122
that it doesn't matter if the server is

00:20:21.162 --> 00:20:22.843
malicious because everything happens on

00:20:22.863 --> 00:20:24.423
device, everything is really secure,

00:20:24.943 --> 00:20:27.025
and the server being malicious is more

00:20:27.065 --> 00:20:29.166
kind of like a bummer than an actual

00:20:29.207 --> 00:20:29.626
problem.

00:20:30.887 --> 00:20:31.988
And that was not the case here.

00:20:32.608 --> 00:20:33.909
So again,

00:20:33.929 --> 00:20:35.349
getting back to the vendor response,

00:20:35.630 --> 00:20:36.570
Bitwarden did fix...

00:20:37.897 --> 00:20:39.878
I think nine of them and three of

00:20:39.898 --> 00:20:42.420
them, they, uh,

00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:43.641
I guess the term is they accepted it.

00:20:43.681 --> 00:20:45.020
They basically said like, we hear you,

00:20:45.040 --> 00:20:45.622
we acknowledge it.

00:20:45.642 --> 00:20:46.842
And here's why we're not fixing it.

00:20:46.862 --> 00:20:49.564
Um,

00:20:49.584 --> 00:20:51.625
they did the reasons they gave made sense

00:20:51.644 --> 00:20:52.125
in my opinion.

00:20:52.144 --> 00:20:54.465
Like one of them was, uh,

00:20:54.486 --> 00:20:55.346
they basically said like,

00:20:55.385 --> 00:20:57.166
we need this functionality for shared

00:20:57.207 --> 00:20:57.807
vaults to work.

00:20:57.948 --> 00:20:59.228
Like if you share with another user or

00:20:59.248 --> 00:21:01.429
a family member, which I hear,

00:21:01.449 --> 00:21:02.190
but at the same time,

00:21:02.529 --> 00:21:03.710
all three of them that they didn't fix,

00:21:03.730 --> 00:21:04.550
they also said like,

00:21:05.345 --> 00:21:06.566
We'd be open to looking into this in

00:21:06.586 --> 00:21:07.026
the future,

00:21:07.965 --> 00:21:09.126
which I appreciate the humility.

00:21:09.146 --> 00:21:10.227
But at the same time, it's like,

00:21:11.288 --> 00:21:12.288
why not just fix it now?

00:21:12.429 --> 00:21:12.909
I don't know.

00:21:13.028 --> 00:21:14.088
I just I don't like that they left

00:21:14.128 --> 00:21:14.609
stuff open,

00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:15.910
even though I understood their answers.

00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:17.330
It's like, but can you fix it anyways?

00:21:17.810 --> 00:21:18.632
There's got to be a way to do

00:21:18.692 --> 00:21:18.771
it.

00:21:21.208 --> 00:21:24.128
Dashlane was a lot less open on their

00:21:24.148 --> 00:21:24.769
blog post.

00:21:25.249 --> 00:21:26.608
They said that they did fix some stuff,

00:21:26.628 --> 00:21:27.930
but they didn't really give that same

00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:30.930
detailed breakdown that Bitwarden did,

00:21:30.990 --> 00:21:32.151
which makes sense because Dashlane and

00:21:32.191 --> 00:21:33.550
LastPass are not open source.

00:21:33.590 --> 00:21:36.151
So they're just not as transparent,

00:21:36.191 --> 00:21:36.431
I guess.

00:21:37.132 --> 00:21:39.051
And LastPass, like I said,

00:21:39.392 --> 00:21:40.751
I think they fixed one of the issues.

00:21:41.412 --> 00:21:44.232
And I think they've got a couple others

00:21:44.252 --> 00:21:45.633
that they've got the fixes ready for,

00:21:45.653 --> 00:21:46.712
but they haven't rolled out yet.

00:21:46.813 --> 00:21:47.753
And then they've got a few more that

00:21:47.794 --> 00:21:48.614
are still in progress.

00:21:49.904 --> 00:21:50.905
Um, although again,

00:21:51.205 --> 00:21:52.307
personal biased opinion,

00:21:53.207 --> 00:21:54.407
I would not use last pass if you

00:21:54.448 --> 00:21:56.990
paid me after their last big data breach.

00:21:57.670 --> 00:21:59.111
So yeah.

00:21:59.191 --> 00:21:59.510
And I,

00:21:59.611 --> 00:22:00.832
I think this is really disappointing

00:22:00.872 --> 00:22:03.933
because again, the,

00:22:04.114 --> 00:22:06.434
the idea of an attack like this is

00:22:06.494 --> 00:22:08.916
we want to make sure that your,

00:22:10.958 --> 00:22:13.019
your vaults are protected no matter what,

00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:14.359
like that is the whole point of a

00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.602
password manager is that you can trust

00:22:16.622 --> 00:22:16.862
this.

00:22:17.721 --> 00:22:18.182
And again,

00:22:18.904 --> 00:22:20.585
It's very frustrating when that is not the

00:22:20.605 --> 00:22:21.865
case and that does not turn out to

00:22:21.905 --> 00:22:23.566
be true.

00:22:23.665 --> 00:22:24.705
I really don't have an excuse for that.

00:22:24.726 --> 00:22:25.425
It's very frustrating.

00:22:25.445 --> 00:22:26.727
But at the same time, I think,

00:22:27.747 --> 00:22:30.686
because I know already there's probably

00:22:30.727 --> 00:22:32.847
some of our more hardcore veteran

00:22:32.887 --> 00:22:33.928
listeners or viewers,

00:22:34.448 --> 00:22:35.167
they're thinking like, oh, well,

00:22:35.188 --> 00:22:36.108
this is why I use KeePass.

00:22:36.128 --> 00:22:37.568
This is why I use offline password

00:22:37.588 --> 00:22:38.709
managers, which is great.

00:22:38.788 --> 00:22:40.308
If you have the kind of organizational

00:22:40.328 --> 00:22:42.130
skill to do that, that's fantastic.

00:22:42.150 --> 00:22:43.329
And I'm totally in favor of it.

00:22:43.809 --> 00:22:46.751
We do recommend KeePass on KeePass XC

00:22:46.932 --> 00:22:49.192
specifically, I think, on privacy guides.

00:22:50.074 --> 00:22:51.434
But for a lot of people,

00:22:52.915 --> 00:22:54.757
offline password managers are

00:22:55.208 --> 00:22:55.847
too much work.

00:22:55.968 --> 00:22:59.048
And the problem with security is security

00:22:59.108 --> 00:23:00.470
requires you to trade convenience,

00:23:01.150 --> 00:23:02.550
but everybody has a different threshold of

00:23:02.590 --> 00:23:03.111
convenience.

00:23:03.270 --> 00:23:04.111
And for a lot of people,

00:23:04.191 --> 00:23:05.050
when for everybody,

00:23:05.432 --> 00:23:07.211
once something becomes too inconvenient,

00:23:07.592 --> 00:23:09.113
they're going to stop doing it because

00:23:09.133 --> 00:23:10.333
it's just too much work and it's not

00:23:10.373 --> 00:23:10.692
worth it.

00:23:11.153 --> 00:23:12.233
And everybody has a different level.

00:23:12.294 --> 00:23:13.673
You know, some people don't mind key pass.

00:23:13.693 --> 00:23:14.355
Some people do.

00:23:14.934 --> 00:23:16.755
So that's kind of the concern or the

00:23:16.835 --> 00:23:17.895
unfortunate side of key passes,

00:23:17.915 --> 00:23:18.976
because yes, in a perfect world,

00:23:19.016 --> 00:23:19.675
that would be great.

00:23:20.277 --> 00:23:21.777
But for a lot of people that requires

00:23:21.797 --> 00:23:23.478
you to manually sync up across multiple

00:23:23.498 --> 00:23:24.077
devices and

00:23:24.337 --> 00:23:26.059
that requires you to manually keep really

00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:26.760
good backups.

00:23:27.201 --> 00:23:28.663
And the nice thing about cloud-based

00:23:28.682 --> 00:23:30.744
password managers is it's just easy.

00:23:30.805 --> 00:23:32.406
Bitwarden syncs across every device.

00:23:32.748 --> 00:23:33.548
It looks really clean.

00:23:33.669 --> 00:23:34.690
I don't have to worry about keeping it

00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:35.150
updated.

00:23:35.230 --> 00:23:36.070
Well, I mean,

00:23:36.090 --> 00:23:37.112
I have to keep the app updated,

00:23:37.152 --> 00:23:38.453
but you know what I mean?

00:23:38.913 --> 00:23:40.096
It's just such a seamless,

00:23:41.196 --> 00:23:42.538
easy user experience.

00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:45.382
So it is really unfortunate to see

00:23:46.345 --> 00:23:47.305
when these kind of things happen.

00:23:47.325 --> 00:23:48.945
And I'm really glad that Bitwarden

00:23:48.986 --> 00:23:50.645
especially took this to heart and they

00:23:50.665 --> 00:23:51.965
took the criticism and they fixed it.

00:23:52.546 --> 00:23:53.906
I hope that they will fix the remaining

00:23:53.946 --> 00:23:55.227
vulnerabilities if possible,

00:23:55.946 --> 00:24:00.048
because I feel like it's one thing when

00:24:00.067 --> 00:24:01.548
there's a vulnerability and you say like,

00:24:01.669 --> 00:24:02.608
okay, we hear you,

00:24:02.669 --> 00:24:04.628
but the odds of that are pretty low.

00:24:04.669 --> 00:24:05.630
It's kind of out of scope.

00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:06.589
It's very unlikely.

00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:07.710
But this is, again,

00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:08.930
this is like the whole thing the product

00:24:08.950 --> 00:24:10.570
is supposed to do is keep your vault

00:24:10.611 --> 00:24:12.330
safe, even if the server is compromised.

00:24:12.351 --> 00:24:13.211
So I feel like this one's a pretty

00:24:13.230 --> 00:24:13.631
big deal.

00:24:14.491 --> 00:24:15.271
And the last thing I want to throw

00:24:15.291 --> 00:24:15.991
in there real quick is

00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:18.752
Uh, one password was not audited,

00:24:19.032 --> 00:24:20.214
but they went ahead and released a blog

00:24:20.234 --> 00:24:21.435
post and basically said like,

00:24:21.496 --> 00:24:23.058
this wouldn't impact us because they have

00:24:23.098 --> 00:24:23.239
that.

00:24:23.278 --> 00:24:25.080
Like, I,

00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.462
I still don't fully understand one

00:24:26.502 --> 00:24:27.704
password structure,

00:24:27.884 --> 00:24:29.067
even though I've read about it like a

00:24:29.086 --> 00:24:29.606
million times,

00:24:29.646 --> 00:24:31.430
but they basically have some kind of, um,

00:24:33.086 --> 00:24:37.928
like a two-password system where you sign

00:24:38.008 --> 00:24:40.169
up and it's not quite your recovery key,

00:24:40.189 --> 00:24:40.848
but it kind of is.

00:24:40.969 --> 00:24:41.230
I don't know.

00:24:41.329 --> 00:24:41.670
Either way,

00:24:42.210 --> 00:24:43.450
the way that they have their setup,

00:24:43.770 --> 00:24:44.810
they said that this would not have

00:24:44.830 --> 00:24:45.290
affected them.

00:24:45.330 --> 00:24:46.531
So if you are a one-password user,

00:24:47.311 --> 00:24:48.492
go ahead and pat yourself on the back.

00:24:48.813 --> 00:24:50.333
And as usual,

00:24:50.413 --> 00:24:51.713
one-password continues to have great

00:24:51.733 --> 00:24:53.234
security.

00:24:53.295 --> 00:24:54.535
And ProtonPass, I don't think,

00:24:54.575 --> 00:24:56.715
has released a blog post, surprisingly,

00:24:56.895 --> 00:24:59.576
and they were not part of this audit,

00:24:59.596 --> 00:25:00.857
so I don't know how they fare, but...

00:25:01.909 --> 00:25:02.990
I think those are my thoughts.

00:25:03.029 --> 00:25:04.191
Did you have any additional takeaways from

00:25:04.211 --> 00:25:04.590
that, Jordan?

00:25:06.413 --> 00:25:06.752
Yes.

00:25:06.833 --> 00:25:09.174
So I did end up putting together a

00:25:09.615 --> 00:25:12.116
post on our social media channels and I

00:25:12.156 --> 00:25:14.338
did a little bit more research into this

00:25:14.439 --> 00:25:16.881
article and sort of like the timelines of

00:25:16.921 --> 00:25:17.320
things.

00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:19.603
And one interesting thing that I did find

00:25:19.682 --> 00:25:23.085
was LastPass was sort of

00:25:23.826 --> 00:25:27.391
downplaying some of the severity risks of

00:25:27.451 --> 00:25:29.413
these vulnerabilities that were found by

00:25:29.432 --> 00:25:30.354
ETH Zurich.

00:25:30.914 --> 00:25:32.196
So they said,

00:25:32.497 --> 00:25:34.680
our own assessment of these risks may not

00:25:34.779 --> 00:25:36.883
fully align with the severity ratings

00:25:36.982 --> 00:25:39.125
assigned by ETH Zurich team.

00:25:40.094 --> 00:25:42.415
And I think the interesting thing to think

00:25:42.435 --> 00:25:44.896
about here is I don't think we should

00:25:44.916 --> 00:25:46.198
be trusting LastPass,

00:25:46.278 --> 00:25:48.480
especially because in twenty twenty two,

00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.060
they basically had a breach which impacted

00:25:51.161 --> 00:25:52.962
one point six million of their users

00:25:53.002 --> 00:25:56.144
because they didn't adequately secure

00:25:56.164 --> 00:25:57.125
their infrastructure.

00:25:57.746 --> 00:25:59.686
And it also showed that a lot of

00:25:59.707 --> 00:26:02.249
the fields in LastPass weren't actually

00:26:02.269 --> 00:26:04.869
encrypted and was stored in plain text,

00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:07.271
which basically allowed for, you know,

00:26:08.618 --> 00:26:09.980
there was a breach of the server like

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.243
we're talking about in this circumstance

00:26:12.704 --> 00:26:14.528
if something is zero knowledge then you

00:26:14.548 --> 00:26:17.412
know you should expect that every single

00:26:17.471 --> 00:26:20.655
piece of data is actually protected right

00:26:20.796 --> 00:26:20.936
so

00:26:22.696 --> 00:26:25.660
Zero knowledge needs to cover every single

00:26:25.701 --> 00:26:26.340
data field.

00:26:26.381 --> 00:26:29.104
It needs to cover metadata.

00:26:29.325 --> 00:26:30.685
It needs to cover everything, right?

00:26:30.726 --> 00:26:33.048
Otherwise there's information that the

00:26:33.088 --> 00:26:34.891
provider has and it's no longer zero

00:26:34.931 --> 00:26:35.291
knowledge.

00:26:35.372 --> 00:26:37.114
I think there's definitely been an

00:26:37.213 --> 00:26:39.215
interesting debate that we've been having.

00:26:41.505 --> 00:26:42.826
on the team about, you know,

00:26:43.507 --> 00:26:47.069
it's becoming zero knowledge, zero access,

00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:49.192
all these buzzwords that a lot of

00:26:49.231 --> 00:26:51.753
companies like to throw around is,

00:26:51.933 --> 00:26:53.454
you know,

00:26:53.595 --> 00:26:55.757
they're becoming the military grade

00:26:55.817 --> 00:26:58.640
encryption sort of, you know,

00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.121
thing that we always kind of make fun

00:27:00.141 --> 00:27:02.482
of because it doesn't really mean anything

00:27:02.583 --> 00:27:04.344
unless the implementation is actually

00:27:04.384 --> 00:27:04.884
correct.

00:27:05.045 --> 00:27:08.768
So I think one thing as a takeaway

00:27:08.807 --> 00:27:09.548
from this is

00:27:10.382 --> 00:27:12.086
If you're still using LastPass,

00:27:12.346 --> 00:27:14.451
please stop.

00:27:15.013 --> 00:27:16.738
There's so many great options now,

00:27:16.837 --> 00:27:18.101
especially because, you know,

00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:21.401
you've got all sorts of options that you

00:27:21.421 --> 00:27:21.780
can pick.

00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:23.080
Like Nate was saying,

00:27:23.141 --> 00:27:25.082
if you're not sort of,

00:27:26.241 --> 00:27:27.521
if you don't need that high level of

00:27:27.582 --> 00:27:29.563
security of a local password manager,

00:27:29.583 --> 00:27:30.482
like KeePass,

00:27:30.962 --> 00:27:32.624
then you can also use a bunch of

00:27:32.644 --> 00:27:34.923
these reputable cloud-based ones.

00:27:34.983 --> 00:27:36.865
And I think the way that Bitwarden handled

00:27:36.904 --> 00:27:38.805
this was incredibly professional.

00:27:39.285 --> 00:27:40.945
It showed that they have a good

00:27:42.785 --> 00:27:45.906
understanding of how to disclose fixes,

00:27:46.248 --> 00:27:48.288
how to actually show and be transparent

00:27:48.328 --> 00:27:49.369
about fixing things.

00:27:49.789 --> 00:27:51.551
So I think they had a great response

00:27:52.112 --> 00:27:52.752
and, you know,

00:27:52.853 --> 00:27:55.355
one password wasn't affected and Dashlane

00:27:55.414 --> 00:27:56.435
also had a good response,

00:27:56.796 --> 00:27:58.517
but I think we should try and center

00:27:58.537 --> 00:28:00.258
this back on some of the recommendations

00:28:00.278 --> 00:28:01.199
that we have on the site.

00:28:01.358 --> 00:28:04.602
So we do recommend ProtonPass,

00:28:04.662 --> 00:28:06.123
which Nate talked about a little bit.

00:28:06.222 --> 00:28:07.263
They weren't included in this,

00:28:07.324 --> 00:28:08.765
so we're not sure if that affects them

00:28:08.825 --> 00:28:09.204
or not,

00:28:09.445 --> 00:28:09.645
but

00:28:11.007 --> 00:28:13.189
It's another password manager that we

00:28:13.249 --> 00:28:13.630
recommend.

00:28:13.650 --> 00:28:14.510
They've been audited.

00:28:15.230 --> 00:28:17.133
They've passed rigorous checks from our

00:28:17.173 --> 00:28:19.236
community members and our staff members to

00:28:19.276 --> 00:28:21.298
be recommended on privacy guides.

00:28:21.938 --> 00:28:24.260
And we also recommend Bitwarden because

00:28:24.280 --> 00:28:25.162
they're open source.

00:28:25.541 --> 00:28:26.682
They're transparent.

00:28:26.863 --> 00:28:29.185
They offer a high level of security.

00:28:31.438 --> 00:28:32.679
There's a couple of other ones that we

00:28:32.699 --> 00:28:35.020
do recommend such as one password,

00:28:35.101 --> 00:28:36.903
which is like Nate said it does have

00:28:36.942 --> 00:28:38.825
great security but does come with the

00:28:39.605 --> 00:28:40.945
unfortunate side effect of being

00:28:41.007 --> 00:28:45.891
proprietary and there's also the Sono

00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:47.152
password manager,

00:28:47.192 --> 00:28:49.294
which is a German password manager.

00:28:49.314 --> 00:28:50.734
It's definitely more of a niche

00:28:51.315 --> 00:28:52.435
recommendation because

00:28:53.356 --> 00:28:54.978
It's less popular in Bitwarden,

00:28:55.077 --> 00:28:56.598
OnePassword and ProtonPass,

00:28:57.098 --> 00:28:58.859
but it still meets all of our criteria

00:28:58.900 --> 00:28:59.299
as well.

00:28:59.859 --> 00:29:00.520
And of course,

00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:02.181
when we move on to the local password

00:29:02.221 --> 00:29:04.122
managers, there's KeePassXC,

00:29:04.142 --> 00:29:06.323
which is basically the gold standard of

00:29:06.363 --> 00:29:07.644
KeePass clients,

00:29:07.804 --> 00:29:10.045
and it's available on all desktop

00:29:10.404 --> 00:29:11.086
platforms,

00:29:11.145 --> 00:29:11.486
which is

00:29:11.905 --> 00:29:12.406
Great.

00:29:13.027 --> 00:29:14.868
And there's also KeePass DX,

00:29:14.909 --> 00:29:16.190
which is available on Android,

00:29:16.210 --> 00:29:18.593
which allows you to access your KeePass

00:29:18.653 --> 00:29:20.914
databases on your Android device.

00:29:21.055 --> 00:29:23.336
And we also recommend KeePassium,

00:29:23.376 --> 00:29:26.180
which is available on iOS and macOS to

00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.242
access your KeePass databases there.

00:29:30.904 --> 00:29:33.145
So I think this is a great opportunity

00:29:33.205 --> 00:29:36.807
to push people towards safer tools that

00:29:37.127 --> 00:29:37.688
respect,

00:29:38.368 --> 00:29:41.450
like they follow proper security

00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:42.471
protocols, right?

00:29:44.209 --> 00:29:46.049
I think that's all we can kind of

00:29:46.069 --> 00:29:47.310
take away from this.

00:29:47.971 --> 00:29:50.532
I think every service is gonna have people

00:29:50.573 --> 00:29:51.413
that find issues.

00:29:53.595 --> 00:29:54.875
The best thing we can hope for is

00:29:54.955 --> 00:29:56.777
how quickly these companies respond,

00:29:57.037 --> 00:29:58.417
how well they respond and how

00:29:58.458 --> 00:29:59.818
transparently they respond.

00:29:59.858 --> 00:30:02.000
So I think the gold standard there was

00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:02.560
Bitwarden.

00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:04.221
They took it very seriously.

00:30:04.842 --> 00:30:05.623
They actually,

00:30:06.502 --> 00:30:07.804
implemented all the changes.

00:30:08.263 --> 00:30:09.365
Most of the changes, actually,

00:30:09.424 --> 00:30:09.924
I should say,

00:30:10.266 --> 00:30:11.586
there's a couple that they weren't able to

00:30:11.625 --> 00:30:11.987
fix.

00:30:12.287 --> 00:30:14.788
But I think that is what we should

00:30:14.807 --> 00:30:16.348
be looking for when these things happen,

00:30:16.388 --> 00:30:19.111
because every tool is going to have an

00:30:19.171 --> 00:30:19.510
issue,

00:30:19.651 --> 00:30:21.011
it's always going to have vulnerabilities,

00:30:21.051 --> 00:30:22.452
it's going to always have issues.

00:30:22.873 --> 00:30:25.075
It's just the way the company treats these

00:30:25.095 --> 00:30:25.775
vulnerabilities.

00:30:26.215 --> 00:30:27.636
That is the most important thing.

00:30:27.936 --> 00:30:32.318
So I think this is, I guess,

00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:32.839
a great

00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:39.973
a great time to kind of segue into

00:30:40.095 --> 00:30:41.496
our next story here.

00:30:41.557 --> 00:30:42.217
Unless, Nate,

00:30:42.237 --> 00:30:43.398
you have anything else you want to add?

00:30:45.922 --> 00:30:46.982
I just wanted to say I'm really glad

00:30:47.303 --> 00:30:49.444
you mentioned that about LastPass.

00:30:50.506 --> 00:30:52.667
I didn't really notice that their response

00:30:53.147 --> 00:30:53.608
contradicted.

00:30:53.669 --> 00:30:54.890
I just skimmed it real quick to see

00:30:54.910 --> 00:30:56.671
if they were like, here's what we found,

00:30:56.691 --> 00:30:57.372
here's what we fixed,

00:30:57.412 --> 00:30:58.692
here's what kind of like Bitwarden did.

00:30:59.233 --> 00:30:59.794
So yeah,

00:31:00.375 --> 00:31:02.876
they are not the most trustworthy.

00:31:04.999 --> 00:31:06.880
Yeah, that's crazy for them to be like,

00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:08.561
oh, this isn't as bad.

00:31:08.602 --> 00:31:09.462
And it's like, yeah,

00:31:09.623 --> 00:31:10.884
let's take your word for it.

00:31:11.443 --> 00:31:13.404
Yeah.

00:31:14.224 --> 00:31:15.346
So I guess with that being said,

00:31:15.405 --> 00:31:18.186
we can move into some exciting iOS based

00:31:18.287 --> 00:31:18.906
news here.

00:31:19.106 --> 00:31:19.787
And after that,

00:31:19.826 --> 00:31:21.688
we'll talk a little bit about Microsoft

00:31:22.087 --> 00:31:25.088
co-pilot sending confidential files,

00:31:25.449 --> 00:31:26.809
but first let's dive into the iOS.

00:31:28.334 --> 00:31:29.295
news here.

00:31:29.315 --> 00:31:31.276
So iOS twenty six point three adds a

00:31:31.436 --> 00:31:34.077
unique new privacy feature and it's Apple

00:31:34.157 --> 00:31:34.778
at its best.

00:31:35.038 --> 00:31:37.279
This is an article from nine to five

00:31:37.381 --> 00:31:37.721
Mac.

00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:40.021
And basically this is an update that

00:31:40.782 --> 00:31:44.505
allows people to have additional privacy

00:31:45.006 --> 00:31:46.606
against their cellular provider,

00:31:46.767 --> 00:31:47.646
which is like, you know,

00:31:47.686 --> 00:31:49.469
the company you pay for your mobile plan.

00:31:50.148 --> 00:31:52.390
And basically it's because of this new C

00:31:52.470 --> 00:31:55.670
one X modem in Apple's new products.

00:31:55.710 --> 00:31:57.411
So basically before they were using like

00:31:57.471 --> 00:32:00.832
Qualcomm modems instead of having their

00:32:00.852 --> 00:32:01.892
own custom Silicon,

00:32:01.912 --> 00:32:04.173
but now Apple's developed their own custom

00:32:04.212 --> 00:32:04.613
modem,

00:32:05.173 --> 00:32:06.752
which I guess may means that they

00:32:06.813 --> 00:32:08.733
decoupled from a third party company and

00:32:08.753 --> 00:32:11.275
they're keeping more things inside.

00:32:11.914 --> 00:32:12.035
Um,

00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:16.611
So I think that's it's definitely an

00:32:16.671 --> 00:32:18.071
interesting move from Apple.

00:32:18.112 --> 00:32:20.633
And I think this sort of feature is

00:32:21.653 --> 00:32:23.153
basically I can quote from the article

00:32:23.193 --> 00:32:23.374
here.

00:32:23.913 --> 00:32:25.494
Cellular networks can determine your

00:32:25.515 --> 00:32:27.816
location based on which cell towers your

00:32:27.855 --> 00:32:28.715
device connects to.

00:32:29.355 --> 00:32:31.857
The limit precise location setting

00:32:31.999 --> 00:32:34.540
enhances your location privacy by reducing

00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:37.042
the precision of location data available

00:32:37.083 --> 00:32:38.284
to cellular networks.

00:32:38.765 --> 00:32:40.006
With this setting turned on,

00:32:40.105 --> 00:32:41.807
some information made available to

00:32:41.886 --> 00:32:44.009
cellular networks is limited.

00:32:44.549 --> 00:32:45.190
As a result,

00:32:45.230 --> 00:32:47.231
they might be able to determine only a

00:32:47.332 --> 00:32:49.773
less precise location, for example,

00:32:49.834 --> 00:32:51.375
the neighborhood where your device is

00:32:51.415 --> 00:32:51.955
located,

00:32:52.376 --> 00:32:54.597
rather than a more precise location such

00:32:54.638 --> 00:32:55.839
as a street address.

00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:58.541
The setting doesn't impact signal quality

00:32:59.002 --> 00:33:00.223
or user experience.

00:33:00.785 --> 00:33:03.047
So not entirely sure how this feature

00:33:03.167 --> 00:33:04.348
works, I guess.

00:33:06.070 --> 00:33:07.311
I guess it's not super clear,

00:33:07.392 --> 00:33:09.815
especially because this is

00:33:11.371 --> 00:33:13.373
basically a brand new feature like I was

00:33:13.794 --> 00:33:15.015
only just came out last week.

00:33:15.816 --> 00:33:19.098
Um, so it's basically it's,

00:33:19.278 --> 00:33:20.740
it's important to remember though,

00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.541
with this feature is that it's only

00:33:22.561 --> 00:33:24.604
available on very specific devices,

00:33:24.624 --> 00:33:26.125
which have the C one X modem.

00:33:26.586 --> 00:33:29.608
So that would be the iPhone air,

00:33:29.808 --> 00:33:30.329
the iPhone,

00:33:31.790 --> 00:33:34.272
and the iPad Pro with cellular connection.

00:33:34.792 --> 00:33:35.394
And of course,

00:33:35.493 --> 00:33:37.494
it's only supported by very specific

00:33:37.535 --> 00:33:38.095
carriers.

00:33:38.335 --> 00:33:40.477
So in Germany, Telecom is supported.

00:33:40.557 --> 00:33:41.557
In the United Kingdom,

00:33:41.798 --> 00:33:43.259
EE and BT are supported.

00:33:43.778 --> 00:33:44.720
In the United States,

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:46.300
Boost Mobile is supported.

00:33:46.461 --> 00:33:47.260
And in Thailand,

00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.063
AIS and True are supported.

00:33:51.144 --> 00:33:51.384
So

00:33:52.950 --> 00:33:56.615
It's basically an additional privacy

00:33:56.654 --> 00:33:58.297
setting that Apple has added to their

00:33:58.317 --> 00:33:58.798
devices.

00:33:58.877 --> 00:34:01.582
I think this is definitely a positive,

00:34:01.622 --> 00:34:04.005
especially because now with five G

00:34:04.045 --> 00:34:05.067
connections,

00:34:05.968 --> 00:34:07.769
it enables much closer tracking of your

00:34:07.789 --> 00:34:08.291
location.

00:34:10.112 --> 00:34:11.472
Especially because the towers have to be

00:34:11.512 --> 00:34:12.293
closer together.

00:34:13.094 --> 00:34:17.813
It's much easier to identify your location

00:34:17.833 --> 00:34:19.175
based on your cellular signals.

00:34:19.235 --> 00:34:21.735
So I think this is definitely a step

00:34:21.755 --> 00:34:23.295
in the right direction that I think we

00:34:23.315 --> 00:34:25.755
should see other companies also following

00:34:25.795 --> 00:34:28.096
suit because this is sort of an issue

00:34:28.135 --> 00:34:29.335
that some people deal with.

00:34:30.197 --> 00:34:33.157
And reducing the amount of data points

00:34:33.177 --> 00:34:35.476
that your carrier has is definitely a

00:34:35.556 --> 00:34:37.177
benefit.

00:34:37.217 --> 00:34:38.257
What are you thinking about this one,

00:34:38.277 --> 00:34:38.458
Nate?

00:34:41.740 --> 00:34:42.380
No, I agree.

00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.081
I think this is really, really cool.

00:34:45.121 --> 00:34:45.501
To me,

00:34:45.541 --> 00:34:48.242
this reminds me a lot of how in

00:34:48.742 --> 00:34:52.963
modern smartphone OSs, Android, iOS,

00:34:53.643 --> 00:34:55.463
you can... Maybe not Android,

00:34:55.503 --> 00:34:56.563
but I know iOS for sure.

00:34:57.063 --> 00:34:59.505
You can tell an app if you want

00:34:59.525 --> 00:35:02.184
it to have precise location or coarse

00:35:02.224 --> 00:35:02.684
location.

00:35:03.206 --> 00:35:06.246
C-O-A-R-S-E, coarse, like rough location.

00:35:06.846 --> 00:35:09.646
And I think that's amazing because...

00:35:10.664 --> 00:35:11.184
I mean, first of all,

00:35:11.204 --> 00:35:12.425
I think a lot of apps shouldn't require

00:35:12.445 --> 00:35:13.547
you to have location anyways.

00:35:13.586 --> 00:35:16.088
Like a lot of, you know,

00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:18.050
rewards apps for fast food.

00:35:18.070 --> 00:35:18.590
They're like, oh,

00:35:18.610 --> 00:35:19.612
what's your precise location?

00:35:19.632 --> 00:35:20.253
Just to function.

00:35:20.293 --> 00:35:20.793
And it's like, no,

00:35:20.913 --> 00:35:22.014
I don't want to find the nearest store.

00:35:22.054 --> 00:35:23.135
I know what store I'm going to.

00:35:24.456 --> 00:35:26.739
And so it's really cool to see them

00:35:26.818 --> 00:35:27.679
roll out this feature.

00:35:29.501 --> 00:35:30.641
The one thing I didn't find that I'm

00:35:30.661 --> 00:35:32.623
a little curious about is if it

00:35:33.635 --> 00:35:35.896
if it will be bypassed for emergency

00:35:35.936 --> 00:35:36.396
services,

00:35:36.416 --> 00:35:37.697
like if you call here in the U

00:35:37.836 --> 00:35:38.496
S nine one one,

00:35:38.597 --> 00:35:40.318
I know it's something else in other

00:35:40.358 --> 00:35:40.737
countries,

00:35:41.217 --> 00:35:42.679
but if you call emergency services,

00:35:42.739 --> 00:35:45.039
will that bypass it and give precise

00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:47.581
location or will it continue to only give,

00:35:47.902 --> 00:35:48.902
um, rough location?

00:35:48.942 --> 00:35:50.643
I have to assume it's, it'll,

00:35:50.722 --> 00:35:53.724
it'll bypass it, but yeah, I, I'm also,

00:35:54.885 --> 00:35:56.445
I guess I'm curious to see what exactly

00:35:56.485 --> 00:35:57.405
this defends against.

00:35:57.485 --> 00:35:59.286
My money says probably things like geo

00:35:59.306 --> 00:36:00.527
fence warrants and stuff like that.

00:36:01.327 --> 00:36:01.527
Um,

00:36:02.768 --> 00:36:03.608
But yeah, I don't know.

00:36:03.708 --> 00:36:04.028
Overall,

00:36:04.068 --> 00:36:07.329
I think this is a really cool feature.

00:36:07.389 --> 00:36:09.050
And the thing I'm excited about is that

00:36:10.130 --> 00:36:11.110
in my experience,

00:36:11.391 --> 00:36:14.753
phones are always an arms race, right?

00:36:15.132 --> 00:36:16.052
We've seen that a lot,

00:36:16.092 --> 00:36:17.313
especially with the privacy stuff.

00:36:17.353 --> 00:36:18.994
Like Apple rolled out,

00:36:19.635 --> 00:36:20.835
I think it was Apple that first rolled

00:36:20.914 --> 00:36:22.476
out granular app permissions.

00:36:23.175 --> 00:36:25.297
And then Android came in later.

00:36:25.436 --> 00:36:25.737
And then

00:36:26.536 --> 00:36:28.577
Apple rolled out the privacy dashboard and

00:36:28.597 --> 00:36:29.476
then in screen time,

00:36:29.577 --> 00:36:31.137
and then Android rolled out the same

00:36:31.177 --> 00:36:31.277
thing.

00:36:31.297 --> 00:36:32.699
And I think Android actually beat Apple to

00:36:32.898 --> 00:36:33.219
one of them.

00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:34.059
I can't remember which one,

00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:35.800
but even Graphene OS, you know,

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.742
Graphene OS rolled out storage scopes and

00:36:37.782 --> 00:36:38.581
contact scopes.

00:36:38.981 --> 00:36:39.882
And then it took a couple of years,

00:36:39.922 --> 00:36:42.164
but Apple rolled out contact scopes now

00:36:42.204 --> 00:36:43.563
ever, or not cause storage scopes.

00:36:43.603 --> 00:36:44.664
I think contact is still coming,

00:36:45.164 --> 00:36:45.686
but you know,

00:36:45.726 --> 00:36:46.925
and now everybody gets to benefit from

00:36:46.945 --> 00:36:47.085
that.

00:36:47.126 --> 00:36:48.887
So this is to me,

00:36:50.188 --> 00:36:52.048
this is one of those things where a

00:36:52.108 --> 00:36:53.389
rising tide lifts all ships.

00:36:54.050 --> 00:36:54.750
And so it's,

00:36:56.643 --> 00:36:58.523
We obviously would prefer for people to

00:36:58.623 --> 00:37:00.063
use like Graphene OS or something,

00:37:00.563 --> 00:37:01.764
but we've covered this many times.

00:37:01.784 --> 00:37:03.264
There's a lot of countries where pixels

00:37:03.284 --> 00:37:04.025
are not available.

00:37:04.824 --> 00:37:06.166
Pixels are expensive, whatever the case.

00:37:06.206 --> 00:37:07.706
Maybe you just bought a brand new phone

00:37:07.726 --> 00:37:08.766
and this is when you decided to get

00:37:08.786 --> 00:37:09.387
into privacy.

00:37:09.867 --> 00:37:11.427
And I totally don't blame you for throwing

00:37:11.467 --> 00:37:12.586
away a brand new phone and running out

00:37:12.608 --> 00:37:13.168
to buy another one.

00:37:13.208 --> 00:37:15.168
So privacy is for everybody,

00:37:15.208 --> 00:37:16.748
regardless of what phone OS they're using.

00:37:16.809 --> 00:37:17.989
Some make it easier than others.

00:37:18.568 --> 00:37:20.449
And it's really cool when we see features

00:37:20.489 --> 00:37:21.349
like this roll out

00:37:21.829 --> 00:37:23.092
that help everybody.

00:37:23.173 --> 00:37:24.717
And my hope is that now Android will

00:37:24.737 --> 00:37:26.481
be forced to copy this and we'll get

00:37:26.501 --> 00:37:27.864
something similar on the Android side as

00:37:27.905 --> 00:37:28.085
well.

00:37:28.326 --> 00:37:29.929
So I think that's my main thought with

00:37:29.949 --> 00:37:30.210
that one.

00:37:31.992 --> 00:37:34.333
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely interesting.

00:37:34.454 --> 00:37:35.815
I think with Android,

00:37:36.175 --> 00:37:39.018
they don't have the same level of control

00:37:39.057 --> 00:37:41.099
that Apple does because they are doing

00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:42.981
this through their new Conex modem.

00:37:43.222 --> 00:37:45.423
I think a lot of Android devices,

00:37:45.463 --> 00:37:47.925
they're all reliant on these massive

00:37:47.985 --> 00:37:50.668
silicon companies like Qualcomm, Broadcom,

00:37:51.068 --> 00:37:51.989
et cetera, et cetera.

00:37:53.050 --> 00:37:54.451
So I think the chances of seeing it

00:37:54.490 --> 00:37:56.552
are definitely lower because, you know,

00:37:56.652 --> 00:37:58.913
Apple is in this position of control here

00:37:58.932 --> 00:38:00.773
where they have the ability to basically,

00:38:01.335 --> 00:38:02.614
I think this is one of the benefits

00:38:02.655 --> 00:38:03.396
of Apple really,

00:38:03.476 --> 00:38:05.257
because they have such control over

00:38:05.317 --> 00:38:05.737
everything.

00:38:06.878 --> 00:38:09.318
They can make these bespoke solutions that

00:38:09.478 --> 00:38:11.199
other companies just wouldn't be able to

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:11.481
do.

00:38:12.521 --> 00:38:13.322
So it's definitely,

00:38:14.981 --> 00:38:17.184
it's good that they're using this new chip

00:38:17.844 --> 00:38:20.885
for additional privacy protection.

00:38:22.643 --> 00:38:23.164
But yeah,

00:38:23.324 --> 00:38:25.206
I feel like that's that story out.

00:38:25.447 --> 00:38:26.489
Do you want to talk a little bit

00:38:26.548 --> 00:38:28.552
more about some more upcoming iOS features

00:38:28.572 --> 00:38:28.952
here, Nate?

00:38:31.445 --> 00:38:31.925
Sure.

00:38:32.405 --> 00:38:33.405
Let's talk about,

00:38:33.525 --> 00:38:34.547
this will be pretty quick,

00:38:34.646 --> 00:38:37.849
but the iOS twenty six point four beta,

00:38:38.409 --> 00:38:39.929
the first version has already been

00:38:39.969 --> 00:38:40.369
released.

00:38:41.130 --> 00:38:41.771
And like I said,

00:38:41.791 --> 00:38:42.831
we'll keep this quick because there's

00:38:42.871 --> 00:38:43.992
really just a couple of things that we

00:38:44.032 --> 00:38:45.072
have talked about in the past.

00:38:46.074 --> 00:38:47.253
The first one we'll go ahead and talk

00:38:47.273 --> 00:38:49.255
about is end to end encryption for RCS.

00:38:49.315 --> 00:38:50.735
So I want to say Jonah and I

00:38:50.775 --> 00:38:52.237
talked about this a few episodes ago.

00:38:53.818 --> 00:38:54.878
RCS is.

00:38:56.266 --> 00:38:57.827
the new standard that's supposed to be

00:38:57.867 --> 00:38:59.168
replacing SMS,

00:38:59.387 --> 00:39:01.568
and it brings a lot of really fun

00:39:01.588 --> 00:39:02.429
little features.

00:39:02.989 --> 00:39:04.050
All the same stuff you enjoy with

00:39:04.150 --> 00:39:05.971
iMessage, really bigger attachment sizes.

00:39:06.291 --> 00:39:08.052
You can emoji react to messages,

00:39:08.072 --> 00:39:09.512
like you can give a thumbs up reaction.

00:39:10.833 --> 00:39:11.594
I think give support,

00:39:11.614 --> 00:39:12.474
but don't quote me on that.

00:39:12.835 --> 00:39:14.115
It's just all around a better user

00:39:14.155 --> 00:39:14.576
experience.

00:39:14.596 --> 00:39:15.556
But one of the cool things it brings

00:39:15.597 --> 00:39:17.197
with it is the ability to have end-to-end

00:39:17.217 --> 00:39:17.938
encrypted messages.

00:39:18.838 --> 00:39:20.358
However, comma,

00:39:20.378 --> 00:39:22.460
people need to enable that.

00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:23.141
So originally,

00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:24.842
Apple said that they were not going to...

00:39:26.572 --> 00:39:28.974
to support end-to-end encryption with

00:39:29.094 --> 00:39:29.536
Android.

00:39:29.655 --> 00:39:30.757
And I'm told, uh,

00:39:30.777 --> 00:39:31.918
I didn't look into that too closely

00:39:31.958 --> 00:39:32.358
admittedly,

00:39:32.777 --> 00:39:34.679
but I'm told from multiple people that's

00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:36.882
because Google was trying to force like

00:39:36.902 --> 00:39:38.302
their proprietary version of it.

00:39:38.402 --> 00:39:39.304
And Apple was like, no,

00:39:39.324 --> 00:39:40.324
this is an open standard.

00:39:40.364 --> 00:39:41.545
We're not going to play ball with you.

00:39:42.126 --> 00:39:43.728
And eventually Google backed down and they

00:39:43.768 --> 00:39:44.909
went with the open standard again.

00:39:44.929 --> 00:39:45.710
That's just what I'm told.

00:39:46.090 --> 00:39:46.990
But either way, uh,

00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:49.313
Apple has since changed course and said,

00:39:49.353 --> 00:39:49.572
yes,

00:39:49.592 --> 00:39:51.614
we will support end-to-end encrypted RCS.

00:39:52.335 --> 00:39:54.536
And I believe the code for this originally

00:39:54.577 --> 00:39:56.398
showed up in this last beta that just

00:39:56.438 --> 00:39:58.059
came out, the twenty six point three.

00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:00.260
But even at the time,

00:40:01.201 --> 00:40:01.940
whoever I was hosting,

00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:02.880
I'm pretty sure it was Joan I was

00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:03.322
hosting with.

00:40:04.081 --> 00:40:05.222
They pointed out it's like this isn't a

00:40:05.242 --> 00:40:05.782
guarantee.

00:40:05.882 --> 00:40:07.364
It's just, you know, it's coming.

00:40:07.403 --> 00:40:08.043
It may be this one.

00:40:08.063 --> 00:40:08.864
It may be the next one.

00:40:09.505 --> 00:40:10.625
And now it's looking like it's going to

00:40:10.644 --> 00:40:11.105
be the next one.

00:40:11.144 --> 00:40:12.085
Twenty six point four.

00:40:12.565 --> 00:40:15.206
We are seeing actual code for encrypted

00:40:15.307 --> 00:40:16.608
RCS, which is fantastic.

00:40:18.389 --> 00:40:19.949
The drawback is that.

00:40:21.302 --> 00:40:23.804
This still has to be enabled by the

00:40:23.844 --> 00:40:26.166
carrier as well, from what I've been told.

00:40:26.365 --> 00:40:32.650
So just like with this location thing we

00:40:32.670 --> 00:40:33.811
were just talking about for cell phones,

00:40:34.251 --> 00:40:35.532
the capability will be there,

00:40:36.333 --> 00:40:37.914
at least a lot more widely than the

00:40:37.954 --> 00:40:38.514
cell phone thing.

00:40:38.534 --> 00:40:39.554
The capability will be there,

00:40:40.036 --> 00:40:42.077
but the carriers will have to choose to

00:40:42.117 --> 00:40:42.516
support it.

00:40:44.355 --> 00:40:45.034
And unfortunately,

00:40:46.496 --> 00:40:47.876
I don't know if there's enough incentive

00:40:47.916 --> 00:40:48.536
for them to.

00:40:48.677 --> 00:40:49.657
I don't know how much they're going to

00:40:49.677 --> 00:40:49.998
care.

00:40:50.137 --> 00:40:52.619
I hope they will, but no guarantees.

00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:53.759
Fingers crossed.

00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:55.719
And then the other thing that's really

00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:56.661
cool is Apple.

00:40:57.141 --> 00:40:58.621
Again, Apple and Google, arms race.

00:40:58.661 --> 00:40:59.681
They're always copying each other.

00:41:00.501 --> 00:41:01.922
Apple has this thing called stolen device

00:41:01.963 --> 00:41:02.342
protection,

00:41:02.422 --> 00:41:04.023
which is supposed to protect your phone if

00:41:04.083 --> 00:41:05.063
it gets stolen,

00:41:05.324 --> 00:41:06.525
if it gets snatched out of your hand

00:41:06.565 --> 00:41:06.985
or something.

00:41:07.666 --> 00:41:10.487
And it basically does a lot of like...

00:41:11.637 --> 00:41:11.938
I think, uh,

00:41:12.358 --> 00:41:14.001
like you requires additional

00:41:14.163 --> 00:41:16.987
authentication to access like Apple pay or

00:41:17.007 --> 00:41:18.630
your iCloud account, things like that.

00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:19.672
If it detects that it's not in a

00:41:19.693 --> 00:41:21.376
familiar location, things of that nature.

00:41:21.396 --> 00:41:21.695
So it's,

00:41:21.757 --> 00:41:22.838
it's a pretty neat little feature if

00:41:22.858 --> 00:41:23.559
you're an iPhone user.

00:41:24.541 --> 00:41:26.222
I think it requires iCloud,

00:41:26.242 --> 00:41:27.023
but don't quote me.

00:41:27.882 --> 00:41:28.762
But anyways, up until now,

00:41:28.782 --> 00:41:30.864
that has been an opt-in feature.

00:41:30.923 --> 00:41:31.764
You have to go enable it,

00:41:32.025 --> 00:41:34.284
and now it will be enabled by default.

00:41:34.385 --> 00:41:35.166
It will become opt-out,

00:41:35.186 --> 00:41:37.545
which normally we are not fans when things

00:41:37.626 --> 00:41:38.407
are opt-out,

00:41:38.806 --> 00:41:40.186
but I think this is kind of one

00:41:40.206 --> 00:41:42.708
of the good times where something should

00:41:42.728 --> 00:41:44.148
be that way by default.

00:41:46.193 --> 00:41:47.934
And there's some other stuff in that

00:41:47.974 --> 00:41:48.574
article as well,

00:41:48.635 --> 00:41:49.416
if you guys are interested,

00:41:49.456 --> 00:41:50.876
but this is a podcast about privacy.

00:41:50.958 --> 00:41:53.599
So that's kind of what we focused on.

00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:55.202
Do you have anything you want to add

00:41:55.222 --> 00:41:56.143
to those, Jordan?

00:41:57.518 --> 00:41:57.797
Yeah,

00:41:57.878 --> 00:42:00.018
I think this is the I especially want

00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:01.398
to talk about the stolen device

00:42:01.418 --> 00:42:01.878
protection,

00:42:01.918 --> 00:42:04.820
because what we were seeing with that is

00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:07.201
some people would basically look over

00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:09.222
people's shoulders and see them entering

00:42:09.242 --> 00:42:09.762
their pin.

00:42:09.862 --> 00:42:11.181
And basically that would allow them to

00:42:11.222 --> 00:42:13.362
take full control of someone's device.

00:42:13.443 --> 00:42:13.663
Right.

00:42:13.682 --> 00:42:16.804
Because there was no restrictions on

00:42:17.003 --> 00:42:17.983
accessing a device.

00:42:18.023 --> 00:42:18.724
It would basically

00:42:21.606 --> 00:42:24.389
It would allow if you had the pin,

00:42:24.429 --> 00:42:25.829
you could change iCloud settings,

00:42:25.869 --> 00:42:27.391
you could drain someone's bank account

00:42:27.451 --> 00:42:28.411
using the Apple Pay.

00:42:28.931 --> 00:42:30.893
It was a little bit ridiculous.

00:42:31.474 --> 00:42:34.916
But someone in the chat, Lucas Truman,

00:42:35.317 --> 00:42:36.938
said it exists on Samsung.

00:42:37.018 --> 00:42:38.639
So the stolen device protection

00:42:40.541 --> 00:42:42.842
on Google devices is different to Apple's

00:42:42.882 --> 00:42:43.682
implementation.

00:42:44.284 --> 00:42:46.304
The stolen device protection on Android

00:42:46.324 --> 00:42:48.867
devices actually uses like proximity

00:42:48.907 --> 00:42:51.548
sensors and stuff like that to basically

00:42:51.668 --> 00:42:53.831
identify if someone is running away with

00:42:53.851 --> 00:42:55.592
your phone and then it will lock the

00:42:55.612 --> 00:42:56.592
phone automatically.

00:42:56.992 --> 00:42:59.474
Whereas Apple's implementation is actually

00:43:00.074 --> 00:43:02.177
more that it just requires a security

00:43:02.237 --> 00:43:04.018
delay if you start to try and make

00:43:04.398 --> 00:43:06.019
sensitive changes on your device,

00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:06.860
like Nate was saying,

00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:09.583
like changing your iCloud password,

00:43:09.643 --> 00:43:10.923
disabling Find My,

00:43:11.023 --> 00:43:12.585
these sort of sensitive things,

00:43:12.905 --> 00:43:14.226
it adds a security delay.

00:43:14.766 --> 00:43:16.548
I think this is really important to be

00:43:16.628 --> 00:43:18.891
enabled by default because this is the

00:43:18.911 --> 00:43:21.132
sort of thing that is basically destroying

00:43:23.994 --> 00:43:27.577
Because if they have this extra barrier

00:43:27.617 --> 00:43:29.458
that they now have to worry about to

00:43:29.478 --> 00:43:33.402
basically break into someone's device to

00:43:33.422 --> 00:43:34.242
steal their money,

00:43:34.543 --> 00:43:36.525
they're going to be much more like they're

00:43:36.545 --> 00:43:38.565
much less likely to actually steal

00:43:38.606 --> 00:43:39.146
devices.

00:43:39.186 --> 00:43:40.668
And I think that's why it's so important

00:43:40.708 --> 00:43:42.590
that these features are enabled by

00:43:42.630 --> 00:43:43.050
default,

00:43:43.090 --> 00:43:43.471
because

00:43:44.130 --> 00:43:47.036
It's a great way to basically stop thieves

00:43:47.097 --> 00:43:49.782
from deciding to do this and steal

00:43:49.802 --> 00:43:50.443
people's phones.

00:43:50.583 --> 00:43:52.065
I don't understand why people do that.

00:43:52.106 --> 00:43:53.869
It's like a literal tracking device.

00:43:53.929 --> 00:43:55.291
I'm not really sure why people are still

00:43:55.311 --> 00:43:55.753
doing this,

00:43:55.833 --> 00:43:56.054
but

00:43:57.376 --> 00:43:59.637
I guess you can drain people's bank

00:43:59.677 --> 00:44:00.117
accounts,

00:44:00.418 --> 00:44:02.798
but I guess after iOS twenty six point

00:44:02.838 --> 00:44:03.018
four,

00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:04.559
it's going to be a lot more difficult

00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:05.500
to do these things.

00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.981
I would also just mention that this isn't

00:44:10.001 --> 00:44:10.641
a silver bullet.

00:44:10.681 --> 00:44:11.161
Obviously,

00:44:11.221 --> 00:44:13.702
it gives you thirty minutes after you're

00:44:13.722 --> 00:44:15.322
in a not familiar location.

00:44:15.422 --> 00:44:17.182
I would set this to always just in

00:44:17.222 --> 00:44:17.623
case.

00:44:19.563 --> 00:44:20.603
So it always activates.

00:44:20.724 --> 00:44:21.864
I would I would not leave it on

00:44:21.943 --> 00:44:23.644
always from familiar locations.

00:44:24.661 --> 00:44:26.023
it makes it a little bit more annoying

00:44:26.063 --> 00:44:26.923
to change things.

00:44:27.643 --> 00:44:28.204
It's fine.

00:44:28.405 --> 00:44:29.344
I don't think it's a problem.

00:44:30.226 --> 00:44:32.666
Most people, I think, you know, if you're,

00:44:32.686 --> 00:44:33.987
you're probably not making sensitive

00:44:34.007 --> 00:44:35.409
changes on your phone very often.

00:44:35.869 --> 00:44:37.110
And I think it's better to have that

00:44:37.150 --> 00:44:38.371
protection because, you know,

00:44:39.032 --> 00:44:40.393
if someone did steal your device,

00:44:40.552 --> 00:44:42.793
they could just follow you home and then

00:44:42.914 --> 00:44:44.275
unlock your device and steal all your

00:44:44.295 --> 00:44:44.574
money.

00:44:44.655 --> 00:44:46.076
It doesn't really make that much sense,

00:44:46.135 --> 00:44:46.797
but it could be,

00:44:47.637 --> 00:44:50.619
and I would stop them from getting quicker

00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.420
access to your device.

00:44:52.481 --> 00:44:52.960
So yeah,

00:44:54.146 --> 00:44:55.628
I think this is why this is quite

00:44:55.668 --> 00:44:56.748
an important feature.

00:44:56.907 --> 00:44:58.409
I don't really have anything more to add

00:44:58.429 --> 00:44:59.489
on the RCS front.

00:44:59.550 --> 00:45:02.050
I think Nate did a pretty good job

00:45:02.090 --> 00:45:02.971
of covering that.

00:45:03.451 --> 00:45:05.672
But I think this stolen device protection

00:45:05.713 --> 00:45:11.275
thing is pretty important.

00:45:11.295 --> 00:45:11.454
Cool.

00:45:11.474 --> 00:45:13.795
Okay.

00:45:14.097 --> 00:45:16.418
Well, before we jump into our next story,

00:45:16.458 --> 00:45:17.717
which I think is about AI,

00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:20.340
we're actually going to take a quick pause

00:45:20.380 --> 00:45:21.019
and a detour.

00:45:21.943 --> 00:45:24.063
And we're going to talk about some updates

00:45:24.443 --> 00:45:26.284
here behind the scenes at Privacy Guides.

00:45:27.945 --> 00:45:30.547
We have been chugging along a lot behind

00:45:30.586 --> 00:45:31.307
the scenes lately.

00:45:32.168 --> 00:45:34.548
And we have a bunch of new videos

00:45:34.608 --> 00:45:35.989
for one to share with you guys.

00:45:36.610 --> 00:45:38.490
So if you are not subscribed to us

00:45:38.550 --> 00:45:39.030
on YouTube,

00:45:40.331 --> 00:45:41.192
a lot of you are already watching.

00:45:41.351 --> 00:45:43.052
Actually, whatever platform you're on,

00:45:43.112 --> 00:45:44.293
whatever platform you're watching on,

00:45:44.373 --> 00:45:45.094
except maybe Twitch.

00:45:45.875 --> 00:45:47.715
But go ahead and subscribe and follow us

00:45:47.735 --> 00:45:48.715
because we do post about

00:45:49.248 --> 00:45:50.902
new releases, news, and stuff like this.

00:45:52.085 --> 00:45:53.306
So definitely.

00:45:53.346 --> 00:45:55.708
But on YouTube, on PeerTube,

00:45:55.847 --> 00:45:58.190
we now have our private browsing video

00:45:58.389 --> 00:45:58.570
out.

00:45:58.670 --> 00:45:58.891
Actually,

00:46:00.032 --> 00:46:01.333
I think the private browsing one is still

00:46:01.353 --> 00:46:02.173
syncing to PeerTube.

00:46:03.014 --> 00:46:04.235
But that one should be up on PeerTube

00:46:04.396 --> 00:46:04.896
any day now.

00:46:04.956 --> 00:46:06.157
But that is out to the public now.

00:46:06.797 --> 00:46:09.280
And it's all about private browsing.

00:46:10.300 --> 00:46:10.561
Again,

00:46:10.681 --> 00:46:11.922
I want to reiterate for a lot of

00:46:11.942 --> 00:46:12.762
the veterans in the crowd,

00:46:12.802 --> 00:46:13.684
you already know this stuff.

00:46:13.764 --> 00:46:14.364
But believe it or not,

00:46:14.403 --> 00:46:15.505
there are people who still think that

00:46:15.605 --> 00:46:17.005
incognito mode is actually private.

00:46:17.927 --> 00:46:19.128
So this is a great video to share

00:46:19.148 --> 00:46:19.809
with people and

00:46:20.349 --> 00:46:23.070
explain to them like why it's not and

00:46:23.931 --> 00:46:25.231
in addition to that we go through a

00:46:25.251 --> 00:46:26.992
lot of the other popular browsers Vivaldi

00:46:27.112 --> 00:46:29.894
Opera Safari we talk about how they

00:46:29.914 --> 00:46:32.436
measure up and then of course our top

00:46:32.476 --> 00:46:34.697
recommendations which I think you guys

00:46:34.998 --> 00:46:36.498
probably know but I'm going to go ahead

00:46:36.518 --> 00:46:38.139
and pretend it's a secret not spoil it

00:46:38.260 --> 00:46:38.400
so

00:46:40.081 --> 00:46:42.063
And then our smartphone privacy and

00:46:42.103 --> 00:46:44.286
security course is still going strong.

00:46:44.867 --> 00:46:47.349
The intermediate level just published to

00:46:47.409 --> 00:46:48.110
everybody as well.

00:46:48.210 --> 00:46:48.871
It is now public.

00:46:49.351 --> 00:46:50.913
And that is iOS and Android.

00:46:51.052 --> 00:46:52.695
So again, whichever phone you're on,

00:46:53.275 --> 00:46:53.996
go ahead and check that out.

00:46:54.036 --> 00:46:55.818
That's all about how to replace the stock

00:46:55.898 --> 00:46:57.539
apps with much more privacy respecting

00:46:57.579 --> 00:46:58.019
versions.

00:46:58.141 --> 00:47:00.123
So like calendars, email, browsers.

00:47:00.882 --> 00:47:02.083
And if you're on Android,

00:47:02.164 --> 00:47:03.706
how to get those apps in a much

00:47:03.746 --> 00:47:04.585
more private fashion.

00:47:05.447 --> 00:47:05.887
Unfortunately,

00:47:05.907 --> 00:47:08.570
that same option does not currently exist

00:47:08.650 --> 00:47:11.152
on iOS, at least outside of Europe.

00:47:11.771 --> 00:47:13.172
But yeah.

00:47:13.293 --> 00:47:15.775
And then one more thing before I turn

00:47:15.835 --> 00:47:19.217
it over to Jordan is we did make

00:47:19.257 --> 00:47:20.539
some updates to the website.

00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:22.762
We removed Yachty,

00:47:22.782 --> 00:47:24.563
which is a YouTube front end for iOS

00:47:24.603 --> 00:47:26.766
because it appears that it's no longer

00:47:26.806 --> 00:47:27.527
being maintained.

00:47:28.128 --> 00:47:29.369
According to the comments and the issue

00:47:29.409 --> 00:47:30.010
that was opened,

00:47:30.130 --> 00:47:31.472
it doesn't work very well.

00:47:31.532 --> 00:47:32.853
It's even been removed from the app store.

00:47:33.952 --> 00:47:34.653
Which is a shame.

00:47:35.434 --> 00:47:37.635
We have removed Dataveria from a list of

00:47:37.675 --> 00:47:38.777
people search websites.

00:47:39.898 --> 00:47:43.942
We have updated about uBlock Origin Lite's

00:47:44.061 --> 00:47:44.762
capabilities.

00:47:45.603 --> 00:47:46.724
So definitely check that out.

00:47:47.445 --> 00:47:49.407
And the BitLocker command line workaround

00:47:49.586 --> 00:47:51.128
no longer works in Windows Home.

00:47:51.387 --> 00:47:53.789
So we have updated our instructions on

00:47:53.829 --> 00:47:54.050
that.

00:47:54.530 --> 00:47:56.032
as well as some stuff about Firefox.

00:47:56.052 --> 00:47:56.992
And then I think the rest of it

00:47:57.012 --> 00:47:58.512
is kind of like code behind the scenes

00:47:58.532 --> 00:47:58.853
stuff.

00:47:59.672 --> 00:48:02.414
But that is all in the show notes.

00:48:02.894 --> 00:48:03.914
And actually,

00:48:04.454 --> 00:48:05.436
that was a last minute edition.

00:48:05.476 --> 00:48:06.476
So it's not in the newsletter yet,

00:48:06.496 --> 00:48:07.476
but I will make sure to add it

00:48:07.836 --> 00:48:10.617
after this episode.

00:48:10.637 --> 00:48:10.958
Jordan,

00:48:10.978 --> 00:48:12.219
did you have anything to add to this

00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:12.559
section?

00:48:14.092 --> 00:48:16.735
yes thank you uh so basically we also

00:48:16.896 --> 00:48:18.556
there was some people asking whether the

00:48:18.797 --> 00:48:22.059
ios um and android advanced sections for

00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:23.782
our smartphone security guide are coming

00:48:23.882 --> 00:48:27.023
out and i can say that the ios

00:48:27.065 --> 00:48:29.527
advanced video is pretty much done it's in

00:48:29.547 --> 00:48:32.048
like the pre pre-production stage right

00:48:32.088 --> 00:48:34.251
now it just needs some more small edits

00:48:34.271 --> 00:48:34.891
to make sure it's

00:48:35.711 --> 00:48:37.992
ready to go up and then the android

00:48:38.092 --> 00:48:41.373
one is also at a similar um draft

00:48:41.454 --> 00:48:43.675
level i guess it still needs some changes

00:48:43.715 --> 00:48:45.596
before it goes up so i'm hoping to

00:48:45.635 --> 00:48:47.637
work on that a bit today and also

00:48:47.677 --> 00:48:49.958
tomorrow and then we can also get that

00:48:50.498 --> 00:48:53.219
out for everybody to our members next week

00:48:53.659 --> 00:48:55.820
um that's the plan on that um but

00:48:57.099 --> 00:48:59.380
I think there's also a,

00:49:00.041 --> 00:49:02.623
we had some more news articles going out.

00:49:02.663 --> 00:49:05.965
So Freya was working on posting those on

00:49:06.025 --> 00:49:08.327
Ghost and that gets shared to our forum

00:49:08.387 --> 00:49:08.867
and stuff.

00:49:09.248 --> 00:49:11.088
So if you haven't been catching those,

00:49:11.128 --> 00:49:13.451
there was one that they wrote about

00:49:13.992 --> 00:49:15.393
Project Toscana,

00:49:15.413 --> 00:49:18.014
which is basically an upgraded Google Face

00:49:18.094 --> 00:49:18.534
Unlock.

00:49:19.396 --> 00:49:21.117
They're basically planning to upgrade the

00:49:21.157 --> 00:49:22.858
Face Unlock system on Google Pixel

00:49:22.898 --> 00:49:23.418
devices.

00:49:23.958 --> 00:49:26.539
They also had another one about iOS,

00:49:26.579 --> 00:49:28.902
twenty six point four beta RCS.

00:49:28.922 --> 00:49:30.782
So if you're interested in reading more

00:49:30.802 --> 00:49:31.322
about that,

00:49:31.422 --> 00:49:33.903
definitely check out those articles from

00:49:33.983 --> 00:49:34.403
Freya.

00:49:34.744 --> 00:49:36.224
And there's also another one going up

00:49:36.304 --> 00:49:36.706
soon,

00:49:36.885 --> 00:49:37.106
which

00:49:39.139 --> 00:49:40.820
is about AI.

00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:43.501
So definitely check that out.

00:49:43.521 --> 00:49:45.481
Make sure you follow our news feed because

00:49:45.541 --> 00:49:48.181
we do keep Priyas managing that as well

00:49:48.202 --> 00:49:48.481
as Nate.

00:49:48.501 --> 00:49:50.762
Nate does some great posts there like data

00:49:50.782 --> 00:49:52.762
breach roundups and all sorts of stuff

00:49:52.802 --> 00:49:53.182
like that.

00:49:53.222 --> 00:49:55.302
So if you're interested in keeping up to

00:49:55.322 --> 00:49:56.643
date on the latest news,

00:49:57.262 --> 00:49:59.903
definitely check out the Privacy Guys news

00:49:59.943 --> 00:50:00.344
page.

00:50:01.523 --> 00:50:01.844
But yeah,

00:50:01.884 --> 00:50:03.204
that's sort of everything we're working

00:50:03.264 --> 00:50:03.344
on.

00:50:04.184 --> 00:50:06.324
We're hoping to work on some more

00:50:07.663 --> 00:50:10.083
less course-related stuff and move into

00:50:10.123 --> 00:50:12.144
some more, you know,

00:50:12.284 --> 00:50:14.266
I think we had a private email video

00:50:14.306 --> 00:50:14.786
planned.

00:50:15.286 --> 00:50:17.248
So we're looking at that.

00:50:19.429 --> 00:50:20.208
And yeah,

00:50:20.228 --> 00:50:21.409
we're sort of finishing out all the

00:50:21.429 --> 00:50:24.070
projects that we had going so far.

00:50:24.291 --> 00:50:26.532
So that's sort of where we are at

00:50:26.672 --> 00:50:30.574
on the video front.

00:50:30.653 --> 00:50:32.494
Awesome.

00:50:32.514 --> 00:50:34.996
Do you want to take this next story

00:50:35.036 --> 00:50:36.536
or would you like me to jump into

00:50:36.556 --> 00:50:36.856
that one?

00:50:38.856 --> 00:50:39.577
Yes.

00:50:39.657 --> 00:50:40.318
This next story,

00:50:40.358 --> 00:50:41.438
like we were talking about before,

00:50:41.478 --> 00:50:42.398
we hinted on it.

00:50:42.539 --> 00:50:43.380
Microsoft says,

00:50:43.579 --> 00:50:45.961
bug causes co-pilot to summarize

00:50:46.061 --> 00:50:47.282
confidential e-mails.

00:50:47.762 --> 00:50:48.603
Microsoft says,

00:50:48.744 --> 00:50:51.105
a Microsoft three sixty-five co-pilot bug

00:50:51.204 --> 00:50:53.186
has been causing the AI assistant to

00:50:53.246 --> 00:50:54.907
summarize confidential e-mails,

00:50:55.367 --> 00:50:56.949
since late January,

00:50:57.349 --> 00:51:00.130
bypassing data loss prevention policies

00:51:00.451 --> 00:51:03.092
that organizations rely on to protect

00:51:03.311 --> 00:51:04.532
sensitive information.

00:51:05.213 --> 00:51:07.353
According to a service alert seen by

00:51:07.393 --> 00:51:08.193
Bleeping Computer,

00:51:08.253 --> 00:51:10.494
this bug tracked under CW.

00:51:10.755 --> 00:51:13.155
One, two, two, six, three, two, four.

00:51:13.836 --> 00:51:14.556
That's a mouthful.

00:51:14.956 --> 00:51:17.177
And first detected on January twenty first

00:51:17.277 --> 00:51:20.159
affects the copilot work tab chat feature.

00:51:20.780 --> 00:51:22.539
which incorrectly reads and summarizes

00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.201
emails stored in users' sent items and

00:51:25.240 --> 00:51:26.260
draft folders,

00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:28.181
including messages that carry

00:51:28.222 --> 00:51:31.001
confidentiality labels explicitly designed

00:51:31.501 --> 00:51:34.342
to restrict access by automated tools.

00:51:34.902 --> 00:51:36.043
Copilot Chat,

00:51:36.362 --> 00:51:39.563
or short for Microsoft Office,

00:51:39.724 --> 00:51:42.324
is the company's AI-powered content-aware

00:51:42.405 --> 00:51:42.764
chat

00:51:43.405 --> 00:51:45.666
that lets users interact with AI agents,

00:51:45.786 --> 00:51:47.929
Microsoft began rolling out co-pilot chat

00:51:47.969 --> 00:51:50.070
to Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook,

00:51:50.791 --> 00:51:53.233
and OneNote for paying Microsoft three

00:51:53.273 --> 00:51:56.576
sixty five business customers in September

00:51:56.916 --> 00:51:58.237
twenty twenty five.

00:51:58.476 --> 00:52:00.978
So the problem was that the user's email

00:52:00.998 --> 00:52:03.320
messages with a confidential label applied

00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:05.722
were being incorrectly processed by

00:52:05.762 --> 00:52:07.945
Microsoft three sixty five co-pilot chat.

00:52:08.844 --> 00:52:10.646
Microsoft said when it confirmed this

00:52:10.746 --> 00:52:11.007
issue.

00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.342
So this is obviously a major problem.

00:52:15.461 --> 00:52:16.842
And I think this is sort of the

00:52:16.983 --> 00:52:19.344
issue with integrating AI into so many of

00:52:19.485 --> 00:52:20.266
these things, right?

00:52:20.306 --> 00:52:21.907
If you don't implement these things

00:52:21.967 --> 00:52:22.527
correctly,

00:52:23.168 --> 00:52:26.411
you're basically just sharing confidential

00:52:26.490 --> 00:52:29.393
or private stuff with an AI chat company,

00:52:29.492 --> 00:52:31.275
which, you know,

00:52:31.974 --> 00:52:33.496
their policies around what they're using

00:52:33.536 --> 00:52:34.476
to train their models,

00:52:34.697 --> 00:52:36.199
their policies around the chats that

00:52:36.219 --> 00:52:38.501
you're sending are somewhat vague.

00:52:38.601 --> 00:52:38.760
So

00:52:40.472 --> 00:52:43.233
This is like a breach of confidentiality

00:52:43.554 --> 00:52:44.293
agreements.

00:52:45.295 --> 00:52:46.936
A lot of companies utilize these

00:52:46.976 --> 00:52:49.936
confidentiality labels to make sure that

00:52:49.956 --> 00:52:52.918
people aren't sending these emails outside

00:52:52.958 --> 00:52:53.518
the company.

00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:56.820
And the fact that Microsoft Copilot was

00:52:56.860 --> 00:53:01.003
just scanning and summarizing this is

00:53:01.063 --> 00:53:01.324
just...

00:53:02.135 --> 00:53:03.096
absolutely ridiculous.

00:53:03.197 --> 00:53:05.297
I'm sure that a lot of companies who

00:53:05.478 --> 00:53:08.179
had specifically super sensitive stuff

00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:10.000
they were discussing are probably really

00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:11.679
mad at Microsoft right now because,

00:53:12.161 --> 00:53:12.561
you know,

00:53:12.581 --> 00:53:14.762
they now have technically they've sent all

00:53:14.782 --> 00:53:16.422
of their confidential information to

00:53:17.143 --> 00:53:18.083
copilot chat.

00:53:20.264 --> 00:53:22.425
So it's just a kind of fail by

00:53:22.465 --> 00:53:23.126
Microsoft.

00:53:23.266 --> 00:53:24.646
This should have been caught.

00:53:24.806 --> 00:53:26.047
I think the fact that we've got all

00:53:26.067 --> 00:53:28.088
these AI chat bots that are like

00:53:28.148 --> 00:53:30.389
summarizing people's entire inboxes is

00:53:31.514 --> 00:53:32.934
kind of bad.

00:53:32.994 --> 00:53:33.454
Like it's,

00:53:33.916 --> 00:53:35.376
this is sort of inevitable when you

00:53:35.416 --> 00:53:38.338
basically grant entire access to inboxes.

00:53:39.278 --> 00:53:41.500
I think we should try and avoid these

00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.641
sort of tools because this is sort of

00:53:43.702 --> 00:53:45.001
an outcome of, you know,

00:53:45.563 --> 00:53:48.244
unless someone sets it up perfectly or it

00:53:48.625 --> 00:53:50.485
ends up sending things to an AI server

00:53:50.565 --> 00:53:51.547
that it wasn't supposed to,

00:53:52.146 --> 00:53:54.447
I think there's not really a good way

00:53:54.467 --> 00:53:55.929
to implement these sort of tools.

00:53:56.349 --> 00:53:57.050
What do you think, Nate?

00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:03.590
I think my favorite part of that that

00:54:03.751 --> 00:54:05.271
I somehow missed when I was reading that

00:54:05.311 --> 00:54:08.233
article is the part where it summarizes

00:54:08.293 --> 00:54:09.793
the scent and the drafts.

00:54:10.393 --> 00:54:13.114
So not only was it doing something that

00:54:13.135 --> 00:54:15.175
it explicitly was not supposed to,

00:54:15.635 --> 00:54:17.117
it wasn't even being useful in the

00:54:17.137 --> 00:54:17.597
process.

00:54:18.476 --> 00:54:18.617
Like,

00:54:18.697 --> 00:54:20.597
I don't need you to summarize my sent

00:54:20.677 --> 00:54:22.798
and draft emails when I'm the one writing

00:54:22.818 --> 00:54:22.998
them.

00:54:23.418 --> 00:54:24.159
Or, I don't know,

00:54:24.259 --> 00:54:25.159
I guess maybe a lot of people are

00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:26.460
using Copilot to write their emails

00:54:26.500 --> 00:54:26.880
nowadays.

00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:29.380
So, like, it's Copilot reading Copilot.

00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:30.742
But to me,

00:54:30.762 --> 00:54:31.842
that was the moment where I was just

00:54:31.882 --> 00:54:33.182
like, oh, my God, are you serious?

00:54:33.242 --> 00:54:34.382
Like, again,

00:54:34.463 --> 00:54:36.764
not only are you putting users' data at

00:54:36.804 --> 00:54:37.143
risk,

00:54:37.465 --> 00:54:39.304
you're not even doing a good job while

00:54:39.324 --> 00:54:40.005
you're at it.

00:54:40.025 --> 00:54:40.445
That's just...

00:54:42.128 --> 00:54:43.230
Oh, classic.

00:54:43.831 --> 00:54:45.132
What are the kids calling it these days?

00:54:45.192 --> 00:54:45.751
Microslop.

00:54:47.474 --> 00:54:49.094
So yeah, that cracked me up.

00:54:49.135 --> 00:54:51.978
But yeah, there it is.

00:54:52.057 --> 00:54:53.059
Lucas at Microslop.

00:54:53.179 --> 00:54:53.898
Yep.

00:54:53.938 --> 00:54:54.480
Ten out of ten.

00:54:55.701 --> 00:54:56.382
No, it's just, yeah.

00:54:56.402 --> 00:54:59.824
And that's, I don't understand how,

00:55:00.005 --> 00:55:00.625
like you said, yeah,

00:55:00.644 --> 00:55:02.327
that should have been something you would

00:55:02.347 --> 00:55:03.226
catch in testing.

00:55:03.487 --> 00:55:04.528
And it's just so...

00:55:06.094 --> 00:55:06.434
I don't know.

00:55:06.514 --> 00:55:08.097
Cause I, I, I, I want to be,

00:55:08.996 --> 00:55:09.998
I want to be fair and I want

00:55:10.018 --> 00:55:11.259
to acknowledge that like, okay,

00:55:11.318 --> 00:55:12.500
there's always going to be bugs.

00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:13.780
There's always going to be mistakes,

00:55:14.121 --> 00:55:15.802
but there's certain bugs and mistakes that

00:55:15.822 --> 00:55:16.362
it's just like,

00:55:16.702 --> 00:55:18.344
how did it get that far through the

00:55:18.384 --> 00:55:18.963
life cycle?

00:55:19.065 --> 00:55:20.085
And no one caught it.

00:55:20.105 --> 00:55:21.706
Like we see that with all kinds of

00:55:21.726 --> 00:55:23.967
like product names and ads and slogans.

00:55:24.007 --> 00:55:25.168
We see that all the time where it's

00:55:25.188 --> 00:55:25.349
like,

00:55:25.668 --> 00:55:27.090
how did this get all the way from

00:55:27.130 --> 00:55:30.432
the boardroom to the TV and not one

00:55:30.472 --> 00:55:31.434
person spoke up?

00:55:32.054 --> 00:55:33.775
which I'm sure usually somebody did,

00:55:33.815 --> 00:55:34.675
but they were told to shut up and

00:55:34.695 --> 00:55:35.177
do your job.

00:55:35.217 --> 00:55:36.378
And maybe that's what happened here.

00:55:36.458 --> 00:55:39.039
So yeah, that's just crazy.

00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:41.882
But yeah, I mean,

00:55:41.902 --> 00:55:43.264
the privacy aspect of this is very

00:55:43.324 --> 00:55:43.643
obvious.

00:55:43.724 --> 00:55:46.085
What if you're sending sensitive medical

00:55:46.126 --> 00:55:47.527
data, sensitive national secrets?

00:55:47.568 --> 00:55:49.188
The government uses Microsoft for reasons

00:55:49.208 --> 00:55:50.349
that are completely beyond me at this

00:55:50.389 --> 00:55:50.630
point.

00:55:50.690 --> 00:55:53.853
But the government uses Microsoft Windows

00:55:53.913 --> 00:55:56.496
and Outlook and Azure and all kinds of

00:55:56.516 --> 00:55:56.775
stuff.

00:55:56.815 --> 00:55:57.315
And so like...

00:55:58.498 --> 00:55:59.958
It's bad enough we've got our own

00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:01.681
government officials adding journalists to

00:56:01.722 --> 00:56:02.322
signal chats.

00:56:02.382 --> 00:56:04.684
Now we've got Microsoft itself is training

00:56:04.806 --> 00:56:06.007
on sensitive war plans.

00:56:06.047 --> 00:56:07.528
It's just – it's crazy.

00:56:07.588 --> 00:56:10.952
This is so not good for anybody.

00:56:10.994 --> 00:56:11.353
So –

00:56:11.733 --> 00:56:12.032
Yeah.

00:56:12.112 --> 00:56:13.114
I think it also goes,

00:56:13.313 --> 00:56:14.974
it's like the double whammy, you know,

00:56:14.994 --> 00:56:16.775
we're like burning down forests and

00:56:16.815 --> 00:56:19.918
building like power plants to fund all of

00:56:19.938 --> 00:56:20.217
this.

00:56:20.378 --> 00:56:20.657
And like,

00:56:20.838 --> 00:56:22.838
it's like an endless money pit of like

00:56:23.019 --> 00:56:24.599
AI data centers.

00:56:24.721 --> 00:56:26.561
And then it's just being used for like

00:56:26.641 --> 00:56:28.382
the most unnecessary stuff,

00:56:28.422 --> 00:56:31.184
like summarizing people's scent and draft

00:56:31.204 --> 00:56:31.603
folders.

00:56:31.643 --> 00:56:32.284
Like what?

00:56:32.364 --> 00:56:33.505
It's just so ridiculous.

00:56:34.525 --> 00:56:35.726
I think this timeline is,

00:56:36.581 --> 00:56:37.501
It's very scuffed.

00:56:38.282 --> 00:56:39.262
I mean, yeah,

00:56:39.282 --> 00:56:40.664
I don't really have too much more to

00:56:40.784 --> 00:56:41.184
add on it.

00:56:41.204 --> 00:56:41.423
Like,

00:56:41.523 --> 00:56:44.085
I feel like we've kind of talked about

00:56:44.126 --> 00:56:45.527
this for quite a bit, but I think,

00:56:46.186 --> 00:56:47.688
you know, obviously no one here,

00:56:47.768 --> 00:56:49.728
please don't use Microsoft products.

00:56:49.869 --> 00:56:51.070
I think it goes without saying.

00:56:52.231 --> 00:56:54.612
It would probably be interesting to see if

00:56:54.652 --> 00:56:54.791
you,

00:56:55.271 --> 00:56:58.153
a lot of companies use these at their

00:56:58.193 --> 00:56:58.755
businesses.

00:56:59.295 --> 00:57:00.014
So, you know,

00:57:00.074 --> 00:57:01.675
if you work for a company that uses

00:57:01.695 --> 00:57:05.338
these tools, I'd probably look at,

00:57:06.427 --> 00:57:10.210
Maybe letting them know that there might

00:57:10.230 --> 00:57:12.771
be a confidentiality breach because this

00:57:12.811 --> 00:57:13.952
is probably pretty common, right?

00:57:13.992 --> 00:57:15.672
A lot of companies are using Microsoft

00:57:15.713 --> 00:57:16.112
tools.

00:57:16.313 --> 00:57:17.293
It's extremely common.

00:57:17.373 --> 00:57:18.574
So, yeah,

00:57:18.753 --> 00:57:21.416
there might be some massive breaches in

00:57:21.436 --> 00:57:23.876
the future from someone accidentally

00:57:23.916 --> 00:57:26.617
sending their war plans to Microsoft

00:57:26.677 --> 00:57:28.878
Copilot or something.

00:57:28.898 --> 00:57:29.300
I don't know.

00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:29.760
We'll see.

00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:32.740
I just want to add real quick,

00:57:32.780 --> 00:57:33.561
you reminded me of,

00:57:33.581 --> 00:57:34.742
I don't know if you've seen that meme

00:57:34.782 --> 00:57:35.222
going around.

00:57:35.262 --> 00:57:36.784
It's like a cartoon,

00:57:37.284 --> 00:57:38.606
like the kind they draw in newspapers,

00:57:39.146 --> 00:57:40.146
where the guy is like, oh,

00:57:40.226 --> 00:57:41.829
we've invented this machine that answers

00:57:41.849 --> 00:57:42.329
questions,

00:57:42.768 --> 00:57:44.231
but you have to feed it twelve giraffes

00:57:44.271 --> 00:57:44.710
per day.

00:57:45.231 --> 00:57:46.291
And the other guy is like, wow,

00:57:47.012 --> 00:57:47.954
that's a lot of giraffes,

00:57:48.054 --> 00:57:50.335
but you said it answers questions, right?

00:57:50.456 --> 00:57:51.177
And it's like, oh, no.

00:57:51.617 --> 00:57:53.057
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:57:53.117 --> 00:57:53.297
no.

00:57:54.925 --> 00:57:56.367
And that's just, yeah,

00:57:56.447 --> 00:57:57.588
that's what came to mind when you talked

00:57:57.608 --> 00:57:59.108
about burning forests and stuff.

00:57:59.630 --> 00:58:01.030
Yeah, the cost is insane.

00:58:01.050 --> 00:58:02.032
And it doesn't even do the thing it's

00:58:02.052 --> 00:58:03.373
supposed to do well.

00:58:03.452 --> 00:58:03.713
Anyways.

00:58:06.074 --> 00:58:07.836
Yeah, it is kind of frustrating.

00:58:07.856 --> 00:58:11.139
And that's kind of the atmosphere at the

00:58:11.179 --> 00:58:11.639
moment.

00:58:14.902 --> 00:58:15.202
All righty.

00:58:15.342 --> 00:58:18.184
And then we had one more AI story.

00:58:19.945 --> 00:58:20.987
I guess I'll go ahead and take this

00:58:21.106 --> 00:58:21.186
one.

00:58:22.969 --> 00:58:23.250
Yeah.

00:58:23.269 --> 00:58:24.871
So this, this kind of tying in with,

00:58:25.030 --> 00:58:26.172
uh,

00:58:26.331 --> 00:58:29.034
AI and remembering the AI is a privacy

00:58:29.074 --> 00:58:29.534
invasion.

00:58:29.715 --> 00:58:30.695
So the headline,

00:58:30.715 --> 00:58:31.916
this comes from four or four media.

00:58:31.996 --> 00:58:34.077
It says Grok explores exposed a porn

00:58:34.117 --> 00:58:34.538
performers,

00:58:34.597 --> 00:58:35.998
legal name and birth date without even

00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:36.780
being asked.

00:58:36.940 --> 00:58:38.840
And I think, um, sorry guys,

00:58:38.860 --> 00:58:39.782
I didn't sign in before,

00:58:40.342 --> 00:58:40.983
before we recorded,

00:58:41.003 --> 00:58:41.702
but I remember this one,

00:58:41.762 --> 00:58:42.824
I was going to show you the screenshot,

00:58:43.264 --> 00:58:46.085
but literally, so somebody, um,

00:58:46.146 --> 00:58:47.347
I guess somebody posted a picture of this

00:58:47.367 --> 00:58:49.068
girl online and she is,

00:58:49.128 --> 00:58:50.088
she's an adult performer.

00:58:50.869 --> 00:58:51.010
Um,

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:53.463
But they posted a picture and somebody

00:58:53.503 --> 00:58:55.608
else replied and they asked Rock, like,

00:58:55.648 --> 00:58:56.168
who is this?

00:58:57.150 --> 00:58:57.931
And that was literally it.

00:58:57.990 --> 00:58:58.931
It was like, who is this?

00:58:59.592 --> 00:59:01.913
And Grok said like, oh, that's a,

00:59:01.932 --> 00:59:03.373
what is her stage name?

00:59:03.474 --> 00:59:04.815
Siri Dahl, I guess.

00:59:05.376 --> 00:59:06.655
And that's like, oh, that's Siri Dahl.

00:59:06.695 --> 00:59:07.677
She's an adult performer,

00:59:08.097 --> 00:59:09.858
but her legal name is this and her

00:59:09.898 --> 00:59:10.858
birthday is this.

00:59:10.998 --> 00:59:12.019
And it's just so like,

00:59:12.380 --> 00:59:13.161
like on the one hand,

00:59:13.521 --> 00:59:15.882
I understand how AI doesn't really

00:59:15.902 --> 00:59:18.443
understand what you're asking because just

00:59:18.483 --> 00:59:19.824
in case anybody's under the delusion out

00:59:19.864 --> 00:59:21.065
there, AI is not sentient.

00:59:21.166 --> 00:59:22.686
I don't care how convincing it looks.

00:59:23.226 --> 00:59:24.708
I'm certainly not anywhere remotely

00:59:24.748 --> 00:59:25.088
convinced.

00:59:26.148 --> 00:59:26.630
But it,

00:59:27.550 --> 00:59:28.650
I understand the concept of like,

00:59:28.731 --> 00:59:30.452
it didn't know if you were asking like,

00:59:30.512 --> 00:59:31.813
who is this person for real?

00:59:31.853 --> 00:59:32.893
Who is this person's name?

00:59:33.414 --> 00:59:34.655
But just the fact that it threw that

00:59:34.715 --> 00:59:35.014
out there,

00:59:35.074 --> 00:59:36.976
and especially this goes back to, again,

00:59:37.016 --> 00:59:38.356
we mentioned this in previous episodes,

00:59:38.918 --> 00:59:41.760
the idea that AI just trains on everything

00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:43.280
indiscriminately without consent.

00:59:43.721 --> 00:59:44.561
And I guarantee you...

00:59:45.842 --> 00:59:46.864
In some kind of world,

00:59:47.463 --> 00:59:49.286
I can see a world where this woman

00:59:49.306 --> 00:59:50.887
may have said like, sure,

00:59:51.306 --> 00:59:53.427
it can know who – like my stage

00:59:53.467 --> 00:59:53.708
name.

00:59:53.748 --> 00:59:54.789
It can know the sites I've been on.

00:59:54.809 --> 00:59:56.070
It can know the videos I've been in.

00:59:56.570 --> 00:59:57.130
I don't mind that.

00:59:57.471 --> 00:59:58.452
But I think she would have been like,

00:59:58.592 --> 01:00:00.293
I would prefer it not tell people my

01:00:00.353 --> 01:00:01.273
legal name, right?

01:00:01.414 --> 01:00:03.574
Like that's why so many performers use

01:00:03.614 --> 01:00:05.257
stage names is to give themselves a little

01:00:05.277 --> 01:00:06.277
bit of a layer of privacy.

01:00:06.878 --> 01:00:07.057
Yeah.

01:00:07.804 --> 01:00:09.206
just the fact that it is scooped that

01:00:09.266 --> 01:00:10.407
up and just threw it out there.

01:00:10.547 --> 01:00:13.150
And you know, your personal morals aside,

01:00:13.192 --> 01:00:13.711
like that's fine.

01:00:13.751 --> 01:00:15.393
You can, it's not fine,

01:00:15.454 --> 01:00:16.835
but your personal morals aside,

01:00:16.856 --> 01:00:17.556
you can say like, well,

01:00:17.577 --> 01:00:18.777
she's an adult performer, whatever.

01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:20.159
I'm using a fake name.

01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:21.521
Nate is not my real name.

01:00:21.581 --> 01:00:22.782
I'm very open about that fact.

01:00:23.163 --> 01:00:24.744
And what happens when you ask the AI,

01:00:24.784 --> 01:00:25.565
like, Hey, who's this?

01:00:25.847 --> 01:00:26.527
And it doxes me.

01:00:27.068 --> 01:00:28.710
Like anybody, any of you,

01:00:28.730 --> 01:00:30.010
like every single one of you in the

01:00:30.030 --> 01:00:32.052
chat right now are using like fake names.

01:00:32.233 --> 01:00:32.632
I'm hoping,

01:00:32.672 --> 01:00:34.014
I'm hoping Lucas Trauman isn't your real

01:00:34.054 --> 01:00:35.356
name, but maybe it is.

01:00:37.637 --> 01:00:39.900
We have handles and we have usernames and

01:00:39.940 --> 01:00:41.081
we have those for a reason.

01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:42.762
And the whole point of privacy is that

01:00:42.782 --> 01:00:44.664
you're supposed to have that...

01:00:45.905 --> 01:00:48.686
that consent to be able to say who

01:00:48.706 --> 01:00:50.068
you want to share data with and what

01:00:50.088 --> 01:00:51.068
data you want to share with them.

01:00:51.528 --> 01:00:53.670
And when AI scrapes all that up,

01:00:54.311 --> 01:00:55.692
even if it never shares it like it

01:00:55.731 --> 01:00:56.211
did here,

01:00:56.612 --> 01:00:58.474
it's still taking away that agency from

01:00:58.514 --> 01:01:00.014
you and it's taking away your right to

01:01:00.054 --> 01:01:01.775
privacy and your control over that

01:01:01.815 --> 01:01:02.295
information.

01:01:03.356 --> 01:01:03.637
Yeah,

01:01:03.976 --> 01:01:05.458
I wanted to throw this one into our

01:01:05.557 --> 01:01:06.918
AI section because I felt like that was

01:01:06.938 --> 01:01:08.117
a really important reminder.

01:01:08.777 --> 01:01:09.358
And just, again,

01:01:09.398 --> 01:01:10.579
the fact that it did so without being

01:01:10.619 --> 01:01:10.998
prompt.

01:01:11.378 --> 01:01:13.659
GROK has been completely insane from the

01:01:13.699 --> 01:01:14.119
get-go.

01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:16.440
Some people like that for some reason,

01:01:16.501 --> 01:01:18.300
but the fact that it just threw that

01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:20.402
out there completely unchecked really blew

01:01:20.422 --> 01:01:20.802
me away.

01:01:20.902 --> 01:01:21.802
And I was like, wow,

01:01:22.981 --> 01:01:24.023
we should talk about this.

01:01:25.643 --> 01:01:26.543
That one, I think, was pretty quick.

01:01:26.563 --> 01:01:27.782
That's all I had on that one.

01:01:27.884 --> 01:01:29.623
Do you have any thoughts on that, Jordan?

01:01:32.739 --> 01:01:33.001
I mean,

01:01:33.141 --> 01:01:35.061
I think this is sort of a case

01:01:35.362 --> 01:01:40.023
of a very unfortunate case of AI doing

01:01:40.063 --> 01:01:42.606
something that you don't intend,

01:01:42.686 --> 01:01:44.306
which seems to be very common with these

01:01:44.346 --> 01:01:44.726
tools.

01:01:44.746 --> 01:01:45.166
Like it's,

01:01:46.496 --> 01:01:48.237
I guess I'm kind of interested to know

01:01:48.277 --> 01:01:50.958
like I also don't have access to this

01:01:50.998 --> 01:01:53.179
full article so I think I might need

01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:56.001
to reload it or something but I think

01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:57.902
you brought up some good points like I

01:01:57.922 --> 01:02:00.983
think you know the whole point of these

01:02:01.063 --> 01:02:02.804
adult performers using these like

01:02:02.844 --> 01:02:06.766
pseudonyms or like stage names and you

01:02:06.786 --> 01:02:08.887
know trying to have some level of privacy

01:02:08.927 --> 01:02:09.286
because

01:02:10.184 --> 01:02:12.226
Obviously, when you're in that industry,

01:02:12.307 --> 01:02:14.130
I think the chances of, you know,

01:02:14.190 --> 01:02:18.193
stalking and doxing and swatting is

01:02:19.014 --> 01:02:20.998
substantially higher and your safety

01:02:21.038 --> 01:02:23.320
concerns would be much worse than the

01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:24.001
average person.

01:02:24.041 --> 01:02:26.103
Like, you would need much more security.

01:02:27.144 --> 01:02:29.206
So it's very concerning that there's

01:02:29.226 --> 01:02:30.188
basically been...

01:02:32.403 --> 01:02:34.724
breach of you know this person's

01:02:34.766 --> 01:02:37.947
information against their consent that's

01:02:37.987 --> 01:02:39.789
probably causing them a bunch of issues

01:02:39.849 --> 01:02:44.670
right now so that's really unfortunate but

01:02:44.690 --> 01:02:45.891
yeah I don't really have too much more

01:02:45.911 --> 01:02:46.893
to add I think this is

01:02:48.217 --> 01:02:50.679
just a very unfortunate and sad story

01:02:50.838 --> 01:02:51.840
because, yeah,

01:02:51.860 --> 01:02:54.702
I think many people wouldn't like their

01:02:54.762 --> 01:02:56.342
personal name being connected to their

01:02:56.402 --> 01:02:56.983
activities.

01:02:57.443 --> 01:02:59.844
And I think this is also especially

01:02:59.864 --> 01:03:00.706
important with, like,

01:03:00.786 --> 01:03:02.766
adult performers because, you know,

01:03:03.588 --> 01:03:06.829
there's stigma around that industry and I

01:03:06.849 --> 01:03:08.951
think some people don't want to deal with

01:03:08.971 --> 01:03:09.172
that.

01:03:09.311 --> 01:03:10.612
So, yeah,

01:03:11.092 --> 01:03:12.114
that's kind of my take on it.

01:03:13.815 --> 01:03:16.617
It's understandable that somebody...

01:03:17.987 --> 01:03:18.126
Yeah,

01:03:18.146 --> 01:03:20.148
there's a tweet that Nate's showing on the

01:03:20.168 --> 01:03:20.449
screen.

01:03:20.489 --> 01:03:23.271
So someone asked Grok, who is she?

01:03:23.331 --> 01:03:24.193
What is her name?

01:03:24.532 --> 01:03:27.034
And Grok appears to have responded,

01:03:27.434 --> 01:03:29.237
she appears to be Siri Dahl,

01:03:29.317 --> 01:03:32.519
an American adult film actress,

01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:34.322
and then all the information about her.

01:03:35.342 --> 01:03:38.945
So it's kind of unfortunate that...

01:03:41.010 --> 01:03:43.773
this AI tool could identify somebody so

01:03:43.853 --> 01:03:44.173
easily?

01:03:44.273 --> 01:03:47.117
I guess it is somebody whose face is

01:03:47.318 --> 01:03:49.621
pretty widely shared on the internet,

01:03:49.681 --> 01:03:52.483
but still connecting that back to an

01:03:52.543 --> 01:03:53.706
actual person's name.

01:03:53.846 --> 01:03:55.246
How exactly did that happen?

01:03:55.266 --> 01:03:58.190
That's kind of my question.

01:03:58.251 --> 01:03:59.592
Where did it get this information?

01:04:01.405 --> 01:04:03.067
I guess it's, you know,

01:04:03.527 --> 01:04:06.068
possible that there was data brokers with

01:04:06.108 --> 01:04:09.472
her information that were listed and an AI

01:04:09.532 --> 01:04:11.514
scraped up that information and associated

01:04:11.594 --> 01:04:12.255
it or something,

01:04:12.815 --> 01:04:14.516
or doxing sites that found this

01:04:14.556 --> 01:04:16.597
information and then basically just

01:04:16.659 --> 01:04:17.278
published it.

01:04:17.478 --> 01:04:23.704
I'm not really sure how that, you know,

01:04:25.947 --> 01:04:26.407
happened.

01:04:27.047 --> 01:04:27.666
Do you have any,

01:04:28.447 --> 01:04:30.047
did you see anything in the article that

01:04:30.088 --> 01:04:32.608
like suggested that or explained how that

01:04:32.628 --> 01:04:32.987
happened?

01:04:33.027 --> 01:04:36.148
Because it seems pretty, pretty terrible.

01:04:37.648 --> 01:04:37.909
No.

01:04:38.028 --> 01:04:40.309
And that's scrolling through the article

01:04:40.349 --> 01:04:40.528
again.

01:04:40.568 --> 01:04:42.849
That's what's horrifying is she said that

01:04:42.949 --> 01:04:43.570
up until now,

01:04:43.610 --> 01:04:45.210
she's been able to keep her real name

01:04:45.510 --> 01:04:47.331
kind of unknown.

01:04:48.030 --> 01:04:49.311
And it says she's been paying for like

01:04:49.331 --> 01:04:52.291
data removal services for years and stuff

01:04:52.311 --> 01:04:52.692
like that.

01:04:52.751 --> 01:04:54.972
And it's, it's unfortunate that

01:04:56.010 --> 01:04:56.489
You know,

01:04:56.510 --> 01:04:58.291
the thing that got me into privacy was

01:04:58.690 --> 01:05:00.192
it was actually Michael Basil's podcast

01:05:00.251 --> 01:05:01.512
back when there were two of them,

01:05:02.233 --> 01:05:03.094
like him and his co-host.

01:05:03.653 --> 01:05:06.375
And they said they were talking about why

01:05:06.414 --> 01:05:08.396
they split up their data instead of like,

01:05:08.556 --> 01:05:09.456
you know,

01:05:09.476 --> 01:05:10.797
because I will admit I was that guy

01:05:10.818 --> 01:05:12.177
that I use Gmail, Google search,

01:05:12.217 --> 01:05:13.918
Google Chrome, Google Drive,

01:05:13.958 --> 01:05:14.639
Google Calendar.

01:05:14.739 --> 01:05:15.599
I used Google everything.

01:05:16.099 --> 01:05:17.201
And they were talking about that and they

01:05:17.221 --> 01:05:17.780
were like, yeah,

01:05:18.161 --> 01:05:19.762
but the defender needs to get it right

01:05:19.862 --> 01:05:20.682
every single time.

01:05:21.143 --> 01:05:22.423
The attacker only needs to get it right

01:05:22.643 --> 01:05:22.844
once.

01:05:23.523 --> 01:05:24.664
And that was the moment it clicked for

01:05:24.704 --> 01:05:24.885
me.

01:05:24.965 --> 01:05:25.666
And I'm like, wow,

01:05:25.746 --> 01:05:27.507
like not obviously like all of us,

01:05:27.606 --> 01:05:29.228
I have nothing to hide, but I'm like,

01:05:30.148 --> 01:05:31.949
if my Google account gets breached,

01:05:32.829 --> 01:05:33.891
that's my entire life.

01:05:33.990 --> 01:05:35.132
That's again, my calendar,

01:05:35.251 --> 01:05:37.092
my browsing history, my searches,

01:05:37.132 --> 01:05:39.514
my YouTube, like everything, my files,

01:05:39.675 --> 01:05:40.135
everything.

01:05:40.715 --> 01:05:41.815
And so that's when I kind of started

01:05:41.835 --> 01:05:43.177
to diversify a little bit.

01:05:43.297 --> 01:05:45.539
And when I did, I realized I'm like,

01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:45.659
oh,

01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:47.159
this is actually a lot easier than you

01:05:47.179 --> 01:05:47.699
would think it is.

01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:48.800
And that's kind of what got me started

01:05:48.820 --> 01:05:49.300
in privacy.

01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:49.501
But

01:05:51.121 --> 01:05:51.722
It's unfortunate.

01:05:52.043 --> 01:05:54.244
So when we think about that phrase,

01:05:54.384 --> 01:05:54.563
you know,

01:05:54.864 --> 01:05:55.943
the defender needs to get it right every

01:05:55.963 --> 01:05:56.445
single time,

01:05:56.885 --> 01:05:57.925
we think about it in terms of like

01:05:57.965 --> 01:05:58.724
data breaches, right?

01:05:58.826 --> 01:06:00.505
And so we want to like data,

01:06:00.525 --> 01:06:01.306
or at least I do,

01:06:01.626 --> 01:06:02.706
I guess I shouldn't speak for everybody,

01:06:02.746 --> 01:06:03.626
but I think of it in terms of

01:06:03.668 --> 01:06:04.128
data breaches.

01:06:04.188 --> 01:06:05.327
We want to minimize how much data we

01:06:05.347 --> 01:06:05.788
put out there.

01:06:05.827 --> 01:06:07.289
We want to make sure we're diversifying so

01:06:07.309 --> 01:06:08.590
that the fallout is reduced.

01:06:09.289 --> 01:06:09.489
But

01:06:11.784 --> 01:06:12.965
it also goes for this stuff.

01:06:12.985 --> 01:06:14.965
It also goes for these data removal

01:06:15.005 --> 01:06:15.505
services.

01:06:15.545 --> 01:06:17.746
It goes for, and it's unfortunate because,

01:06:17.766 --> 01:06:18.646
you know, you were asking, like,

01:06:18.666 --> 01:06:19.965
do we know how that got out there?

01:06:22.606 --> 01:06:24.347
Throw a coin and take your pick, right?

01:06:24.407 --> 01:06:26.288
Or like throw a rock and, you know,

01:06:26.367 --> 01:06:27.668
it's like, there's so many ways,

01:06:27.708 --> 01:06:29.507
especially in America where our data laws

01:06:29.527 --> 01:06:30.108
can best be,

01:06:30.307 --> 01:06:31.688
or our privacy laws can best be described

01:06:31.708 --> 01:06:32.369
as LOL.

01:06:32.829 --> 01:06:35.268
Like there's just so many opportunities

01:06:35.748 --> 01:06:38.070
and it's impossible to defend against them

01:06:38.210 --> 01:06:38.389
all.

01:06:38.429 --> 01:06:39.789
We try our best, you know, which is,

01:06:40.971 --> 01:06:42.231
One of the reasons we recommend like data

01:06:42.271 --> 01:06:43.932
removal services and Michael Basil's

01:06:43.952 --> 01:06:45.934
workbook and Yale Grauer's big ass data

01:06:45.954 --> 01:06:46.775
broker opt out list.

01:06:46.835 --> 01:06:48.157
And whether you want to do it automated,

01:06:48.177 --> 01:06:50.039
whether you want to do it personally,

01:06:50.059 --> 01:06:51.079
whether you want to do a hybrid,

01:06:51.641 --> 01:06:53.342
it's just there's so much to defend

01:06:53.362 --> 01:06:54.884
against and it can be so exhausting.

01:06:55.543 --> 01:06:56.045
And unfortunately,

01:06:56.144 --> 01:06:57.987
I've personally seen some people burn out

01:06:58.047 --> 01:06:59.628
and quit because it is so much work

01:06:59.648 --> 01:07:00.469
and it's so exhausting.

01:07:00.509 --> 01:07:01.750
And it's just, yeah,

01:07:01.789 --> 01:07:02.670
who knows where they got it from?

01:07:02.710 --> 01:07:04.112
There's a million places they could have

01:07:04.132 --> 01:07:04.612
gotten it from.

01:07:04.632 --> 01:07:05.414
And it's really hard.

01:07:06.596 --> 01:07:08.197
just horrendously unfortunate.

01:07:08.757 --> 01:07:09.637
Um,

01:07:09.717 --> 01:07:11.577
especially when somebody seems to be doing

01:07:11.657 --> 01:07:13.239
everything right and trying their best and

01:07:13.338 --> 01:07:14.239
using the data services.

01:07:14.318 --> 01:07:15.338
And I don't know which ones she used.

01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:17.380
Maybe she was using, but I mean,

01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:18.900
we just got that study from consumer

01:07:18.940 --> 01:07:19.541
reports, right?

01:07:19.581 --> 01:07:21.382
Like a couple of years ago where we

01:07:21.402 --> 01:07:23.143
finally got some transparency about which

01:07:23.202 --> 01:07:24.143
ones work and which ones don't.

01:07:24.422 --> 01:07:25.402
And that was one study.

01:07:25.983 --> 01:07:27.184
And we really need a lot more of

01:07:27.224 --> 01:07:28.364
them because like,

01:07:28.425 --> 01:07:29.925
we still don't really know for sure which

01:07:30.005 --> 01:07:31.385
ones are the most effective and

01:07:32.065 --> 01:07:32.425
And yeah,

01:07:32.445 --> 01:07:33.746
this could have come from so many,

01:07:33.806 --> 01:07:34.527
so many places.

01:07:34.547 --> 01:07:36.208
And it's just so unfortunate that somebody

01:07:36.228 --> 01:07:38.570
is trying to do everything right and still

01:07:38.590 --> 01:07:38.931
failing.

01:07:38.971 --> 01:07:40.893
And now they're it says in this article,

01:07:40.913 --> 01:07:42.213
they're like making a game out of it,

01:07:42.333 --> 01:07:43.054
asking Grok, like,

01:07:43.074 --> 01:07:44.315
what kind of car does she drive and

01:07:44.396 --> 01:07:45.155
what's her address?

01:07:45.195 --> 01:07:46.836
And she's like, yeah,

01:07:46.958 --> 01:07:48.237
how long before Grok guesses?

01:07:48.398 --> 01:07:50.760
They said so far it hasn't been able

01:07:50.780 --> 01:07:52.141
to reply accurately yet,

01:07:52.181 --> 01:07:53.302
but she worries it's only a matter of

01:07:53.362 --> 01:07:53.583
time.

01:07:53.842 --> 01:07:56.244
And it's like, cool, that's awesome.

01:07:56.284 --> 01:07:57.965
So I don't know.

01:07:58.045 --> 01:07:59.507
Yeah, that's that's a depressing story.

01:07:59.686 --> 01:08:00.588
I feel so sorry for her.

01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:02.559
Yeah,

01:08:02.780 --> 01:08:04.201
I think it's like I was saying before,

01:08:04.262 --> 01:08:07.144
this leads to, you know,

01:08:07.264 --> 01:08:08.346
this can lead to violence,

01:08:08.365 --> 01:08:09.347
it can lead to abuse.

01:08:09.387 --> 01:08:10.088
Like it said,

01:08:10.989 --> 01:08:13.311
almost instantly harassers started opening

01:08:13.351 --> 01:08:15.414
Facebook accounts in her name and posting

01:08:15.514 --> 01:08:17.377
stolen photos.

01:08:18.466 --> 01:08:20.568
adult clips with a real name on sites

01:08:20.627 --> 01:08:23.488
for leaking OnlyFans content so you know

01:08:23.507 --> 01:08:25.529
there's people I think these people that

01:08:25.569 --> 01:08:28.529
post on you know adult websites I think

01:08:28.550 --> 01:08:31.170
they're at much higher risk of receiving

01:08:31.210 --> 01:08:34.751
harassment and abuse so I think it's

01:08:34.791 --> 01:08:36.752
especially important for someone like this

01:08:36.851 --> 01:08:38.671
to have this protection but I think when

01:08:38.712 --> 01:08:40.832
it comes back to the the data broker

01:08:40.853 --> 01:08:41.512
stuff I think

01:08:42.372 --> 01:08:44.833
that the tools it doesn't it doesn't

01:08:44.873 --> 01:08:47.033
matter so much about the tools and stuff

01:08:47.134 --> 01:08:48.635
i think there really needs to be a

01:08:48.694 --> 01:08:50.654
change where that data doesn't isn't

01:08:50.675 --> 01:08:52.255
allowed to be collected in the first place

01:08:52.274 --> 01:08:53.636
because you're basically just playing like

01:08:53.676 --> 01:08:55.916
a cat and mouse game um plenty of

01:08:55.956 --> 01:08:59.077
countries it's this information is not

01:08:59.157 --> 01:09:01.618
allowed to be used for this purpose like

01:09:01.637 --> 01:09:03.137
that's the whole point of a lot of

01:09:03.158 --> 01:09:05.398
data protection laws is they stop this

01:09:05.438 --> 01:09:07.418
sort of thing happening and

01:09:09.556 --> 01:09:09.837
you know,

01:09:10.077 --> 01:09:14.301
maybe it was great back in eighteen twenty

01:09:14.341 --> 01:09:16.481
five when everyone needed to have access

01:09:16.502 --> 01:09:18.583
to the public records of everyone because,

01:09:18.623 --> 01:09:18.863
you know,

01:09:18.884 --> 01:09:20.425
they needed to work out where to go

01:09:20.465 --> 01:09:22.686
to, I don't know, find someone.

01:09:23.027 --> 01:09:23.828
That's great.

01:09:23.887 --> 01:09:25.849
But we live in the interconnected like

01:09:25.948 --> 01:09:26.770
Internet age,

01:09:26.810 --> 01:09:31.012
like people are instantly able to access

01:09:31.073 --> 01:09:31.673
information.

01:09:31.713 --> 01:09:34.275
They can find out things significantly

01:09:34.296 --> 01:09:34.815
faster.

01:09:34.956 --> 01:09:36.117
You don't have to go down to like

01:09:36.136 --> 01:09:36.756
a courthouse.

01:09:36.777 --> 01:09:38.018
You don't have to go down to like

01:09:38.217 --> 01:09:38.238
a

01:09:39.789 --> 01:09:41.193
government building to access this

01:09:41.252 --> 01:09:42.916
information it's readily available on the

01:09:42.956 --> 01:09:46.963
internet it shouldn't be um and it

01:09:46.984 --> 01:09:48.728
shouldn't be allowed to be used to like

01:09:49.405 --> 01:09:51.948
advertising for like all these like creepy

01:09:51.988 --> 01:09:54.788
stuff like training ai and stuff like that

01:09:54.988 --> 01:09:58.190
um i honestly wouldn't be surprised if you

01:09:58.371 --> 01:10:00.573
know i feel like grok has the least

01:10:00.733 --> 01:10:03.994
amount of ethical like guidelines set for

01:10:04.034 --> 01:10:05.735
it like it'll just answer absolutely

01:10:05.796 --> 01:10:07.957
everything and it won't have any concern

01:10:08.016 --> 01:10:10.177
over like the ethics like where does this

01:10:10.217 --> 01:10:12.139
person live what's their address it'll

01:10:12.158 --> 01:10:12.619
just be like

01:10:13.582 --> 01:10:15.564
certainly here's the address of blah,

01:10:15.583 --> 01:10:15.984
blah, blah.

01:10:16.003 --> 01:10:18.266
It's just like, it's, you know,

01:10:18.747 --> 01:10:20.969
AI is basically the guy,

01:10:20.988 --> 01:10:23.190
the guardrails are not very great.

01:10:23.211 --> 01:10:24.752
Like we talked about with the Microsoft

01:10:25.193 --> 01:10:26.054
copilot issue,

01:10:26.073 --> 01:10:27.694
the guardrails are very thin.

01:10:29.157 --> 01:10:30.518
People can use them for malicious

01:10:30.557 --> 01:10:31.078
purposes.

01:10:31.118 --> 01:10:32.279
Like we saw with this, you know,

01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.023
finding out a person's identity or finding

01:10:36.082 --> 01:10:37.283
out where they live, you know,

01:10:37.304 --> 01:10:38.746
this is all concerning stuff.

01:10:38.926 --> 01:10:39.065
And,

01:10:40.904 --> 01:10:43.065
I think it's like a combination of things.

01:10:43.987 --> 01:10:46.689
AI tools don't have really any ethical

01:10:46.729 --> 01:10:47.429
frameworks.

01:10:47.929 --> 01:10:49.970
They can be used for like really abusive

01:10:50.011 --> 01:10:50.390
stuff.

01:10:50.990 --> 01:10:53.313
And also just like the US's lack of

01:10:53.393 --> 01:10:55.793
any national privacy laws restricting

01:10:56.515 --> 01:10:58.636
companies to use people's information.

01:10:59.176 --> 01:11:00.516
And I'm sure that, you know,

01:11:00.636 --> 01:11:04.819
these AI chatbots have also been trained

01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:04.899
to

01:11:05.319 --> 01:11:07.340
like a bunch of personal information has

01:11:07.380 --> 01:11:10.202
been sucked up by these chatbots, right?

01:11:10.242 --> 01:11:12.002
Like, I'm sure that, you know,

01:11:12.021 --> 01:11:15.283
if you asked Grok about where Elon Musk

01:11:15.323 --> 01:11:16.524
lives, it probably wouldn't say,

01:11:16.585 --> 01:11:18.466
but I'm sure if you said some other

01:11:18.506 --> 01:11:20.386
famous person whose address is somewhat

01:11:20.447 --> 01:11:20.806
public,

01:11:20.867 --> 01:11:22.467
it would come up and tell you exactly

01:11:22.488 --> 01:11:23.047
where they live.

01:11:24.128 --> 01:11:27.029
So it's, you know,

01:11:27.489 --> 01:11:28.430
I don't think this is

01:11:29.176 --> 01:11:29.676
great,

01:11:30.356 --> 01:11:33.177
especially because it's so accessible now.

01:11:33.278 --> 01:11:35.259
Like it's basically available to anyone.

01:11:35.658 --> 01:11:37.600
Like you can use an AI chatbot for

01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:37.899
free.

01:11:37.979 --> 01:11:39.240
Anyone can access this.

01:11:39.801 --> 01:11:42.762
So it becomes really concerning when it's

01:11:43.802 --> 01:11:45.503
used to dox people.

01:11:46.323 --> 01:11:48.145
So I think we'll only continue to see

01:11:48.185 --> 01:11:50.386
more of this unless some changes are made,

01:11:50.485 --> 01:11:53.287
which is kind of unfortunate, but yeah,

01:11:54.314 --> 01:11:56.036
You can only protect yourself as much as

01:11:56.095 --> 01:11:56.496
possible.

01:11:56.536 --> 01:11:57.317
Like Nate was saying,

01:11:57.377 --> 01:12:00.099
using all these data removal tools and

01:12:00.878 --> 01:12:02.699
getting DMCA requests and all sorts of

01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:03.000
stuff,

01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:05.582
there's only so much you can do to

01:12:05.601 --> 01:12:06.403
protect yourself.

01:12:06.582 --> 01:12:10.284
And if the laws and the country doesn't

01:12:11.626 --> 01:12:13.886
prioritize people's privacy,

01:12:13.926 --> 01:12:16.208
then there's only so much you can do.

01:12:16.309 --> 01:12:18.289
You're basically just removing stuff for

01:12:18.310 --> 01:12:19.511
them to add it back again.

01:12:20.886 --> 01:12:20.926
Um,

01:12:20.947 --> 01:12:22.547
so I can definitely understand why someone

01:12:22.587 --> 01:12:24.868
might feel worn out after they've just

01:12:25.109 --> 01:12:27.689
constantly been removing the information

01:12:27.949 --> 01:12:29.791
from the same sites over and over again.

01:12:30.270 --> 01:12:34.212
Um, it definitely makes sense.

01:12:34.252 --> 01:12:34.431
Yeah.

01:12:34.471 --> 01:12:35.912
Thank you for completing my thought there.

01:12:35.972 --> 01:12:37.073
Cause that's what I was going towards and

01:12:37.113 --> 01:12:38.413
I forgot to like close the loop on

01:12:38.453 --> 01:12:38.753
that is.

01:12:40.305 --> 01:12:42.087
We shouldn't need to pay for these data

01:12:42.127 --> 01:12:42.988
removal services.

01:12:43.028 --> 01:12:45.649
We should just have strong data privacy

01:12:45.689 --> 01:12:45.970
laws.

01:12:46.090 --> 01:12:47.431
And I know this is really not the

01:12:47.452 --> 01:12:48.131
best example,

01:12:48.693 --> 01:12:51.996
but it makes me think of years ago,

01:12:52.395 --> 01:12:53.537
somebody tracked...

01:12:55.253 --> 01:12:56.475
I think it was a journalist at Wired.

01:12:56.975 --> 01:13:00.016
They got the phone records of every phone

01:13:00.537 --> 01:13:02.399
that went in and out of Epstein's Island

01:13:02.458 --> 01:13:04.199
for like a year or a month or

01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:04.579
something.

01:13:05.319 --> 01:13:08.002
And the ones that went back to Europe,

01:13:08.082 --> 01:13:09.722
as soon as they hit European airspace,

01:13:10.363 --> 01:13:12.604
the record stopped because GDPR is so

01:13:12.684 --> 01:13:13.385
strong there.

01:13:13.965 --> 01:13:15.485
that they just basically stopped keeping

01:13:15.506 --> 01:13:16.747
the records or they had been deleted by

01:13:16.787 --> 01:13:17.707
that point or something.

01:13:18.027 --> 01:13:18.488
Um,

01:13:18.528 --> 01:13:19.948
like everywhere else we could track the

01:13:19.969 --> 01:13:21.488
phones right back to their front door.

01:13:21.550 --> 01:13:23.050
But that was the only one that like,

01:13:23.371 --> 01:13:24.690
as soon as they hit European airspace,

01:13:24.711 --> 01:13:25.212
they stopped.

01:13:25.292 --> 01:13:28.092
And so like, it's laws are,

01:13:28.172 --> 01:13:29.673
I know laws are really contentious in the

01:13:29.713 --> 01:13:30.314
privacy space.

01:13:30.335 --> 01:13:31.375
Cause some people are like, Oh,

01:13:31.775 --> 01:13:32.855
nobody pays attention to laws.

01:13:32.876 --> 01:13:33.697
They just don't work.

01:13:33.737 --> 01:13:34.796
And, and yeah, some,

01:13:34.957 --> 01:13:36.537
some companies will bypass them.

01:13:36.637 --> 01:13:37.658
And then when that happens,

01:13:38.099 --> 01:13:39.500
you have the right to sue them.

01:13:39.779 --> 01:13:41.180
Hopefully if they're well-written laws and

01:13:41.201 --> 01:13:42.502
you have private right of action, like,

01:13:43.222 --> 01:13:44.564
It's not a perfect bullet.

01:13:44.604 --> 01:13:45.904
We definitely need all these layers.

01:13:45.944 --> 01:13:48.307
We need the technical layers that enforce

01:13:48.368 --> 01:13:48.847
the laws,

01:13:49.168 --> 01:13:51.671
but we also need the laws that give

01:13:51.711 --> 01:13:53.052
you that protection in the first place.

01:13:53.113 --> 01:13:55.836
And I would be – I'm not going

01:13:55.855 --> 01:13:56.555
to say I guarantee you.

01:13:57.037 --> 01:13:58.557
I would be very shocked for something like

01:13:58.578 --> 01:13:59.559
this to happen in Europe.

01:14:00.640 --> 01:14:01.662
I don't believe she was European.

01:14:02.701 --> 01:14:04.341
Because they just have stronger privacy

01:14:04.362 --> 01:14:04.662
laws.

01:14:05.542 --> 01:14:06.463
Yeah, it said she was American, right?

01:14:06.484 --> 01:14:07.944
Yeah, an American film actress.

01:14:07.965 --> 01:14:11.507
So yeah, that's definitely that.

01:14:11.587 --> 01:14:13.349
And actually one more thing that occurred

01:14:13.368 --> 01:14:14.529
to me real quick while you were talking

01:14:14.569 --> 01:14:17.372
is the article says that the reason she

01:14:17.471 --> 01:14:19.333
and a lot of other adult actors use

01:14:20.335 --> 01:14:21.534
fake names and try to protect their

01:14:21.576 --> 01:14:24.618
privacy is because they don't want their

01:14:24.698 --> 01:14:26.939
family being harassed, which is a thing.

01:14:27.853 --> 01:14:29.073
that I could absolutely see terrible

01:14:29.094 --> 01:14:29.573
people doing.

01:14:30.675 --> 01:14:31.595
You don't have to like porn.

01:14:31.715 --> 01:14:32.115
That's fine.

01:14:32.155 --> 01:14:33.176
I'm not here to convince you that you

01:14:33.195 --> 01:14:33.416
should.

01:14:34.296 --> 01:14:35.478
But a lot of people will take it

01:14:35.637 --> 01:14:36.978
way too far and say,

01:14:37.378 --> 01:14:39.279
I'm going to call your family and send

01:14:39.300 --> 01:14:41.180
them pictures of you naked, clips of you,

01:14:41.701 --> 01:14:44.802
and basically just harass them because

01:14:44.842 --> 01:14:45.563
it'll guilt you.

01:14:45.783 --> 01:14:49.485
And I think that's something I see more

01:14:49.626 --> 01:14:51.386
in authoritarian governments, I think,

01:14:52.127 --> 01:14:53.247
or at least that I read about more,

01:14:53.747 --> 01:14:55.109
is there was a human rights lawyer in

01:14:55.128 --> 01:14:55.989
Iran that...

01:14:56.899 --> 01:14:58.962
her daughter was basically arrested one

01:14:59.002 --> 01:14:59.243
time.

01:14:59.262 --> 01:15:00.604
Um, I read this book years ago,

01:15:00.644 --> 01:15:01.845
so I may have the finer details wrong,

01:15:02.365 --> 01:15:03.988
but like her daughter was arrested coming

01:15:04.007 --> 01:15:04.689
in and out of the country.

01:15:05.670 --> 01:15:06.270
And she,

01:15:06.788 --> 01:15:07.248
Basically,

01:15:07.288 --> 01:15:08.789
the government was trying to pressure the

01:15:08.890 --> 01:15:10.912
author, the actual lawyer, the mom.

01:15:11.332 --> 01:15:12.552
They were trying to pressure her to quit

01:15:12.592 --> 01:15:14.113
her job and stop being a lawyer.

01:15:15.095 --> 01:15:16.855
And she told her daughter straight up.

01:15:16.876 --> 01:15:17.275
She's like,

01:15:17.997 --> 01:15:19.358
I have to pretend like I don't care

01:15:19.938 --> 01:15:22.579
because if I bend and I give in

01:15:22.600 --> 01:15:23.341
to their demands,

01:15:23.921 --> 01:15:25.261
every time they want to pressure me,

01:15:25.301 --> 01:15:26.842
they're going to go straight to you and

01:15:26.863 --> 01:15:27.684
they're going to harass you.

01:15:28.614 --> 01:15:29.655
And it took months,

01:15:30.055 --> 01:15:31.516
but finally the government stopped

01:15:31.556 --> 01:15:33.677
harassing her daughter and left her alone

01:15:33.738 --> 01:15:34.998
and they've never bothered her since.

01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:39.462
And that's something that, I don't know,

01:15:39.481 --> 01:15:40.943
that's just a thought I guess I'm trying

01:15:40.962 --> 01:15:41.582
to get at is like,

01:15:41.944 --> 01:15:43.043
we tend to think of privacy as a

01:15:43.083 --> 01:15:45.426
very individual thing.

01:15:45.546 --> 01:15:46.867
And a lot of the work is,

01:15:47.006 --> 01:15:48.188
you have to download Signal,

01:15:48.328 --> 01:15:50.649
you have to sign up for the services,

01:15:50.748 --> 01:15:52.090
you have to be mindful what data you

01:15:52.109 --> 01:15:52.591
put out there,

01:15:53.070 --> 01:15:54.612
but it is important to think about the

01:15:54.712 --> 01:15:56.172
impact of the people around you as well.

01:15:56.212 --> 01:15:56.872
And yeah.

01:15:56.974 --> 01:15:57.173
Yeah.

01:15:57.829 --> 01:15:58.951
I don't know if that necessarily applies

01:15:58.970 --> 01:15:59.451
to everybody,

01:15:59.511 --> 01:16:00.972
but I thought that was an interesting

01:16:01.012 --> 01:16:05.055
thing that the article pointed out.

01:16:05.355 --> 01:16:07.016
I think we've talked about that story

01:16:07.077 --> 01:16:07.537
plenty,

01:16:07.637 --> 01:16:11.980
unless you have any more thoughts to add.

01:16:12.020 --> 01:16:12.702
No, I'm good.

01:16:13.002 --> 01:16:15.083
I guess we could move on here to

01:16:15.543 --> 01:16:15.783
some,

01:16:15.804 --> 01:16:17.706
we got some quick stories here just to

01:16:17.725 --> 01:16:19.006
quickly cover because

01:16:19.649 --> 01:16:21.171
We've talked about this every week.

01:16:21.251 --> 01:16:24.493
There's more of these age verification

01:16:24.573 --> 01:16:26.493
laws for children coming out.

01:16:26.673 --> 01:16:28.074
It's really unfortunate.

01:16:28.454 --> 01:16:29.636
More countries are doing it.

01:16:30.676 --> 01:16:36.180
There was even some movement in the US

01:16:36.220 --> 01:16:36.739
as well.

01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:39.041
I saw today, this morning from Politico.

01:16:40.582 --> 01:16:42.182
I think the governor of California was

01:16:42.262 --> 01:16:43.023
considering it.

01:16:43.144 --> 01:16:45.225
So there's definitely movement in the US

01:16:45.244 --> 01:16:45.564
as well.

01:16:45.585 --> 01:16:46.685
This doesn't apply just to...

01:16:47.662 --> 01:16:51.125
Australia and uh Europe it's now happening

01:16:51.905 --> 01:16:53.926
uh in the United States well it's moving

01:16:53.967 --> 01:16:55.908
to happen we'll see how that happens but

01:16:56.609 --> 01:16:59.072
um so yeah Newsom backs social media

01:16:59.112 --> 01:17:02.194
restrictions for teens under so he didn't

01:17:02.515 --> 01:17:05.277
entirely say this was going to happen he

01:17:05.317 --> 01:17:09.640
just was less against it than usual um

01:17:09.820 --> 01:17:09.980
so

01:17:11.662 --> 01:17:12.963
I'm not really certain about this.

01:17:12.984 --> 01:17:14.466
I don't really know much about this guy,

01:17:14.546 --> 01:17:17.988
but, um, I think this is basically,

01:17:18.309 --> 01:17:18.989
he said that, uh,

01:17:20.770 --> 01:17:22.171
he was convinced that this was a good

01:17:22.231 --> 01:17:24.875
idea by some of the Australian, uh,

01:17:24.895 --> 01:17:26.555
movements from Australia where we

01:17:26.636 --> 01:17:28.658
basically implemented a social media ban

01:17:28.677 --> 01:17:29.618
for under sixteens.

01:17:30.338 --> 01:17:30.800
Personally,

01:17:30.979 --> 01:17:34.722
I think it has been largely pretty bad.

01:17:35.042 --> 01:17:36.144
It hasn't worked that well.

01:17:36.805 --> 01:17:36.925
Um,

01:17:38.515 --> 01:17:39.716
So basically now they're having,

01:17:40.516 --> 01:17:41.597
according to this article,

01:17:41.818 --> 01:17:44.500
they're now having a debate over whether

01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:47.641
this would be a good idea to implement.

01:17:48.203 --> 01:17:51.185
And there's also another article that we

01:17:51.265 --> 01:17:53.006
have here, which covers basically,

01:17:53.466 --> 01:17:54.466
it's from TechCrunch,

01:17:55.228 --> 01:17:57.349
and it's basically covering all the

01:17:57.649 --> 01:17:59.990
countries that are moving to implement

01:18:00.030 --> 01:18:02.653
social media bans and age verification and

01:18:02.733 --> 01:18:04.573
identity verification.

01:18:04.795 --> 01:18:06.095
So Australia, obviously,

01:18:06.115 --> 01:18:07.756
we talked about that when it happened.

01:18:08.795 --> 01:18:11.657
Denmark is set to ban social media for

01:18:11.957 --> 01:18:13.859
platforms for children under fifteen.

01:18:14.779 --> 01:18:17.841
And France is also pushing for it for

01:18:17.862 --> 01:18:18.943
kids under fifteen.

01:18:19.823 --> 01:18:22.546
So it needs to get through the Senate,

01:18:22.565 --> 01:18:24.627
though, before it actually gets passed.

01:18:25.108 --> 01:18:25.768
In Germany,

01:18:25.927 --> 01:18:28.690
there's also a movement to add a social

01:18:28.730 --> 01:18:30.832
media ban for under sixteens.

01:18:32.052 --> 01:18:32.934
There's still, you know,

01:18:34.301 --> 01:18:35.822
it still needs to go through and be

01:18:35.862 --> 01:18:37.963
approved before it actually happens.

01:18:38.024 --> 01:18:40.587
Greece is also close to announcing a

01:18:40.627 --> 01:18:42.167
social media ban for children under

01:18:42.188 --> 01:18:42.729
fifteen.

01:18:43.288 --> 01:18:45.610
Malaysia is also considering one for under

01:18:45.671 --> 01:18:46.551
sixteen year olds.

01:18:46.813 --> 01:18:49.555
Slovenia is also drafting legislation to

01:18:49.595 --> 01:18:51.596
prohibit people under the age of fifteen

01:18:51.636 --> 01:18:53.319
from accessing social media.

01:18:53.878 --> 01:18:55.461
Spain has also announced

01:18:56.121 --> 01:18:58.021
But they plan to ban social media for

01:18:58.061 --> 01:18:59.762
children under the age of sixteen.

01:19:00.283 --> 01:19:03.505
And the United Kingdom is weighing a ban

01:19:03.645 --> 01:19:05.426
on social media for children under

01:19:05.485 --> 01:19:06.006
sixteen.

01:19:06.646 --> 01:19:08.988
So the UK, I would assume,

01:19:09.007 --> 01:19:10.488
would be pretty likely just because

01:19:10.529 --> 01:19:12.489
they've had the Online Safety Act for a

01:19:12.529 --> 01:19:14.490
while, which kind of required this stuff.

01:19:16.292 --> 01:19:18.854
So it's pretty much a...

01:19:21.023 --> 01:19:22.604
it's just a continuation of what we've

01:19:22.623 --> 01:19:23.965
been saying before here.

01:19:24.685 --> 01:19:26.447
This is not great for people's privacy.

01:19:26.947 --> 01:19:28.948
There's no way that you do this without,

01:19:29.288 --> 01:19:30.649
you know, identifying people.

01:19:31.430 --> 01:19:33.412
And not everyone has ID as well.

01:19:33.511 --> 01:19:35.332
So you're locking people out of platforms.

01:19:35.773 --> 01:19:38.614
And I think you're also locking children

01:19:38.715 --> 01:19:40.636
out of communities that they, you know,

01:19:40.676 --> 01:19:42.417
some people have very niche interests.

01:19:42.478 --> 01:19:46.659
They're from a minority group.

01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:50.363
They find solace in, you know, these,

01:19:52.492 --> 01:19:53.512
these platforms,

01:19:53.632 --> 01:19:56.533
these online platforms to talk and meet

01:19:56.594 --> 01:19:56.953
people.

01:19:57.054 --> 01:19:59.994
So taking away that access is probably

01:20:00.015 --> 01:20:01.274
going to be pretty detrimental.

01:20:01.935 --> 01:20:02.916
I think we're going to see that in

01:20:02.935 --> 01:20:03.956
the next couple of years,

01:20:04.497 --> 01:20:06.256
but it doesn't seem to have been super

01:20:06.277 --> 01:20:06.777
effective.

01:20:06.837 --> 01:20:07.757
At least in Australia,

01:20:07.837 --> 01:20:09.597
a lot of people are still bypassing it,

01:20:10.097 --> 01:20:12.658
but it could be that further restrictions

01:20:12.698 --> 01:20:14.039
need to be put in place before it

01:20:14.060 --> 01:20:15.060
becomes effective.

01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:17.240
So we can only hope that that won't

01:20:17.280 --> 01:20:20.221
happen because we probably don't want,

01:20:20.322 --> 01:20:20.542
you know,

01:20:23.305 --> 01:20:25.606
people tap to upload their ID in every

01:20:25.646 --> 01:20:25.987
case,

01:20:26.027 --> 01:20:27.247
because right now they're using age

01:20:27.287 --> 01:20:28.347
assurance technology,

01:20:28.408 --> 01:20:29.689
which we've talked about and said,

01:20:29.729 --> 01:20:31.189
you know, that doesn't work very well.

01:20:31.229 --> 01:20:32.230
It's kind of racist.

01:20:32.832 --> 01:20:34.932
It's not great at determining people's

01:20:35.052 --> 01:20:35.252
age.

01:20:35.332 --> 01:20:36.974
And you basically have to send a biometric

01:20:37.014 --> 01:20:37.975
scan of your face.

01:20:39.235 --> 01:20:39.676
But yeah,

01:20:39.796 --> 01:20:40.777
do you have anything you want to add

01:20:40.796 --> 01:20:41.216
here, Nate?

01:20:41.296 --> 01:20:42.637
I feel like we've definitely talked about

01:20:42.677 --> 01:20:43.118
this a lot.

01:20:43.158 --> 01:20:45.659
We probably don't need to go into super

01:20:45.699 --> 01:20:47.921
detail.

01:20:48.521 --> 01:20:50.222
Yeah, I don't really have anything to add.

01:20:50.302 --> 01:20:50.923
I just, it's,

01:20:52.429 --> 01:20:53.770
like you said, and, and I mean,

01:20:53.871 --> 01:20:55.774
I'm not Australian, but from what I hear,

01:20:55.954 --> 01:20:58.198
Australia's ban has not really been that

01:20:58.217 --> 01:20:58.979
much successful.

01:20:59.720 --> 01:20:59.961
Um,

01:20:59.980 --> 01:21:01.542
the UK is online safety has been a

01:21:01.563 --> 01:21:03.746
downright catastrophe, but you know,

01:21:03.827 --> 01:21:05.448
politicians are going to be politicians

01:21:05.488 --> 01:21:06.751
and they're going to, who, who was it?

01:21:06.850 --> 01:21:06.951
Um,

01:21:08.143 --> 01:21:09.203
I should know this one is American.

01:21:09.684 --> 01:21:10.625
George Bush Jr.

01:21:11.244 --> 01:21:12.726
Like there's that famous picture of him

01:21:12.766 --> 01:21:14.228
standing on the aircraft carrier saying

01:21:14.268 --> 01:21:16.409
mission accomplished like three days into

01:21:16.430 --> 01:21:17.210
the Iraq war.

01:21:17.390 --> 01:21:18.470
And we were there for another twenty

01:21:18.490 --> 01:21:18.711
years.

01:21:18.890 --> 01:21:21.132
So or maybe it was three months,

01:21:21.172 --> 01:21:22.895
but it was like still it was.

01:21:22.954 --> 01:21:24.416
And that's that's just what comes to mind

01:21:24.475 --> 01:21:24.935
when, you know,

01:21:24.996 --> 01:21:27.318
all these politicians are like, oh, yeah,

01:21:27.358 --> 01:21:28.578
we should do what Australia did.

01:21:28.599 --> 01:21:31.020
And it's like, OK, come on, guys, like.

01:21:32.547 --> 01:21:33.188
Yeah, I don't know.

01:21:33.347 --> 01:21:35.708
Changing your mind is not cool these days,

01:21:35.769 --> 01:21:36.088
I guess.

01:21:36.149 --> 01:21:37.590
But yeah, from what I've seen,

01:21:37.630 --> 01:21:39.131
it does not seem to have been successful

01:21:39.951 --> 01:21:41.051
anywhere at all.

01:21:41.832 --> 01:21:45.953
And I cannot imagine that that's going to

01:21:45.972 --> 01:21:47.373
bear out any different for anybody else.

01:21:47.394 --> 01:21:48.373
I don't know why they think it's going

01:21:48.394 --> 01:21:49.533
to work better for them.

01:21:49.573 --> 01:21:52.755
But yeah, it is.

01:21:53.055 --> 01:21:54.296
I will echo real quick.

01:21:56.016 --> 01:21:59.257
Somebody said in our private signal chat

01:21:59.398 --> 01:21:59.778
is like,

01:22:00.662 --> 01:22:02.284
it's really concerning how much this is

01:22:02.305 --> 01:22:03.287
spreading like wildfire.

01:22:03.327 --> 01:22:04.389
So I can sit here and laugh at

01:22:04.408 --> 01:22:05.130
them and I can be like, God,

01:22:05.149 --> 01:22:05.831
they're so stupid.

01:22:06.371 --> 01:22:07.011
And I'm going to do that.

01:22:07.432 --> 01:22:08.875
But also it's, you know,

01:22:08.914 --> 01:22:10.056
it's one of those things where like,

01:22:10.618 --> 01:22:11.097
we can't,

01:22:12.819 --> 01:22:14.819
we can't take it not seriously because

01:22:14.920 --> 01:22:16.461
unfortunately even stupid people are

01:22:16.480 --> 01:22:19.203
dangerous in the right situations and

01:22:19.462 --> 01:22:21.625
they're gonna push this through if nobody

01:22:21.664 --> 01:22:22.164
stops them.

01:22:22.324 --> 01:22:24.247
And it's really important that we keep

01:22:24.266 --> 01:22:24.686
trying to like,

01:22:24.707 --> 01:22:25.887
this is why we keep sharing this every

01:22:25.908 --> 01:22:26.068
week,

01:22:26.087 --> 01:22:27.148
even though we don't really have anything

01:22:27.188 --> 01:22:27.689
new to add.

01:22:28.189 --> 01:22:29.569
It's just to remind you guys that like,

01:22:29.609 --> 01:22:30.371
this is happening.

01:22:30.791 --> 01:22:31.891
And especially if you live in one of

01:22:31.912 --> 01:22:33.212
these countries or one of these States,

01:22:33.592 --> 01:22:35.394
you need to like contact your politicians

01:22:35.434 --> 01:22:36.675
and speak up and be like, Hey,

01:22:36.715 --> 01:22:37.375
this is bad.

01:22:38.036 --> 01:22:39.195
And you know,

01:22:39.216 --> 01:22:40.296
I'm not going to get too far into

01:22:40.317 --> 01:22:41.217
the whole thing, but like,

01:22:41.917 --> 01:22:44.900
Try not to come at them like they're

01:22:44.980 --> 01:22:45.320
idiots.

01:22:45.421 --> 01:22:46.402
I know I was just making fun of

01:22:46.421 --> 01:22:46.902
politicians,

01:22:46.942 --> 01:22:48.163
but try not to come at them and

01:22:48.184 --> 01:22:49.264
be like, oh, you guys are so dumb.

01:22:49.925 --> 01:22:51.166
Try to come at them in good faith

01:22:51.185 --> 01:22:52.247
because if nothing else,

01:22:52.266 --> 01:22:53.228
you're probably going to win them over

01:22:53.528 --> 01:22:54.248
better that way.

01:22:54.988 --> 01:22:56.130
You certainly stand a better chance.

01:22:57.351 --> 01:22:57.792
Yeah,

01:22:57.832 --> 01:22:59.233
we really need to fight back against this

01:22:59.273 --> 01:23:00.872
and educate everyone on why this is a

01:23:00.912 --> 01:23:03.533
terrible idea and get people to understand

01:23:03.573 --> 01:23:05.555
that so that there's pushback because

01:23:05.635 --> 01:23:06.795
otherwise they're just going to rush it

01:23:06.854 --> 01:23:08.735
right through and everybody's going to be

01:23:08.775 --> 01:23:10.095
like, yeah, the children, sure.

01:23:10.655 --> 01:23:12.356
And it's going to hurt everyone in the

01:23:12.377 --> 01:23:12.697
long run.

01:23:12.997 --> 01:23:15.318
So yeah, that's all I got.

01:23:19.257 --> 01:23:20.137
And with that,

01:23:20.417 --> 01:23:22.198
if you don't have anything else to add

01:23:22.219 --> 01:23:22.559
to that,

01:23:23.180 --> 01:23:26.060
we are actually going to move into our

01:23:26.100 --> 01:23:26.881
forum updates.

01:23:26.921 --> 01:23:28.283
So in a minute,

01:23:28.722 --> 01:23:30.163
we will be taking viewer questions.

01:23:30.344 --> 01:23:31.264
So if you're watching,

01:23:32.284 --> 01:23:33.225
go ahead and be sure to...

01:23:34.987 --> 01:23:36.006
to go ahead and leave those.

01:23:36.868 --> 01:23:37.167
There we go.

01:23:37.188 --> 01:23:39.829
That's the one I was trying to do.

01:23:39.850 --> 01:23:40.810
Be sure to go ahead and leave those

01:23:40.869 --> 01:23:41.570
in the live chat.

01:23:41.671 --> 01:23:42.612
Or if you're on the forum,

01:23:42.652 --> 01:23:43.731
you can leave them on the forum too.

01:23:43.792 --> 01:23:44.672
We will be checking that.

01:23:45.673 --> 01:23:46.134
But for now,

01:23:46.354 --> 01:23:47.375
we are going to go to the forum

01:23:47.534 --> 01:23:49.536
and we're going to talk about a few

01:23:49.636 --> 01:23:51.197
of the hot topics that people have been

01:23:51.216 --> 01:23:52.037
discussing this week.

01:23:52.797 --> 01:23:53.698
And the first one,

01:23:53.719 --> 01:23:55.359
this actually came in pretty last minute.

01:23:55.399 --> 01:23:56.280
So I don't know if you had a

01:23:56.301 --> 01:23:57.502
chance to look at this one, Jordan,

01:23:57.582 --> 01:23:58.942
but it says,

01:23:59.002 --> 01:24:00.884
I verified my LinkedIn identity and here's

01:24:00.904 --> 01:24:02.204
what I actually handed over.

01:24:04.707 --> 01:24:05.948
We thought this one might be a good

01:24:06.028 --> 01:24:07.828
one to discuss in light of all this

01:24:07.890 --> 01:24:08.909
age verification stuff.

01:24:09.131 --> 01:24:10.532
This is not the forum post,

01:24:10.572 --> 01:24:11.072
but real quick,

01:24:11.131 --> 01:24:12.412
I am going to share what it links

01:24:12.453 --> 01:24:12.792
to.

01:24:13.213 --> 01:24:14.475
This is like a blog post that somebody

01:24:14.515 --> 01:24:14.734
wrote.

01:24:16.019 --> 01:24:17.860
Um, so this person says that, uh,

01:24:17.900 --> 01:24:19.042
they wanted the blue check mark on

01:24:19.082 --> 01:24:19.502
LinkedIn.

01:24:20.003 --> 01:24:21.364
The one that says this person is real

01:24:21.425 --> 01:24:23.046
in a sea of fake recruiters, bot accounts,

01:24:23.067 --> 01:24:24.167
and AI generated headshots.

01:24:24.228 --> 01:24:25.328
It seemed like the smart thing to do.

01:24:25.689 --> 01:24:26.610
So I tapped verify.

01:24:26.711 --> 01:24:27.572
I scanned my passport.

01:24:27.631 --> 01:24:28.932
I took a selfie three minutes later,

01:24:29.033 --> 01:24:30.135
done badge acquired.

01:24:30.574 --> 01:24:32.016
Then I did what apparently nobody does.

01:24:32.136 --> 01:24:33.398
I went and read the privacy policy in

01:24:33.438 --> 01:24:34.139
terms of service,

01:24:34.479 --> 01:24:36.001
not LinkedIn's the other company.

01:24:36.301 --> 01:24:36.421
Um,

01:24:37.422 --> 01:24:40.246
Which I know this author probably did this

01:24:40.305 --> 01:24:41.065
on purpose,

01:24:41.086 --> 01:24:42.307
but I think it's funny that they did

01:24:42.328 --> 01:24:43.429
the thing and then read the privacy

01:24:43.469 --> 01:24:43.809
policy.

01:24:45.050 --> 01:24:46.070
But yeah,

01:24:46.091 --> 01:24:47.972
so apparently LinkedIn uses this company

01:24:48.012 --> 01:24:48.773
called Persona,

01:24:48.873 --> 01:24:50.154
which I believe is the same one that

01:24:50.175 --> 01:24:51.155
Discord is going to be using.

01:24:51.655 --> 01:24:52.396
Don't quote me on that.

01:24:53.074 --> 01:24:54.695
But yeah, you can see here,

01:24:55.036 --> 01:24:57.096
they went and read the privacy policy and

01:24:57.157 --> 01:24:58.978
basically Persota collects full name,

01:24:59.018 --> 01:25:01.899
passport photos, selfie, facial geometry,

01:25:02.079 --> 01:25:03.220
NFC chip data.

01:25:03.659 --> 01:25:05.240
I do want to point out a lot

01:25:05.261 --> 01:25:08.222
of the time privacy policies say they may

01:25:08.262 --> 01:25:09.002
collect this stuff.

01:25:09.143 --> 01:25:11.524
So like, for example, he says like,

01:25:12.444 --> 01:25:12.765
where is it?

01:25:12.805 --> 01:25:13.565
Postal address?

01:25:14.565 --> 01:25:15.926
I don't know how they would get that

01:25:15.947 --> 01:25:17.649
from just his passport because U.S.

01:25:17.668 --> 01:25:20.430
passports do not have your postal address

01:25:20.490 --> 01:25:20.671
on them.

01:25:20.712 --> 01:25:21.932
I think most passports don't.

01:25:23.014 --> 01:25:24.515
But maybe they ask for it during signup

01:25:24.574 --> 01:25:25.496
or maybe it's one of those like if

01:25:25.515 --> 01:25:26.657
you submit a driver's license,

01:25:26.697 --> 01:25:27.898
we'll read the address off that.

01:25:28.198 --> 01:25:29.279
So I just want to point out like

01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:30.680
maybe not everything was taken.

01:25:31.240 --> 01:25:32.962
And obviously we know things like IP

01:25:32.981 --> 01:25:33.262
address.

01:25:33.283 --> 01:25:35.784
You can obfuscate by by using a VPN.

01:25:35.805 --> 01:25:37.345
But then like Mac address,

01:25:38.386 --> 01:25:39.648
OS version language,

01:25:39.929 --> 01:25:41.210
all of this is completely insane.

01:25:41.890 --> 01:25:42.351
Um, he said,

01:25:42.372 --> 01:25:43.634
here's the weirdest of hesitation,

01:25:43.673 --> 01:25:45.538
detection, copy and paste detection.

01:25:46.340 --> 01:25:48.123
Um, which quick unrelated note,

01:25:48.203 --> 01:25:49.606
if you run a website and you disable

01:25:49.667 --> 01:25:50.328
copy and paste,

01:25:50.408 --> 01:25:52.153
you suck because password managers are a

01:25:52.193 --> 01:25:52.353
thing.

01:25:53.228 --> 01:25:54.347
I hate when companies do that.

01:25:54.988 --> 01:25:55.828
Um, but yeah, it's,

01:25:55.889 --> 01:25:57.088
and then they shared all this stuff with

01:25:57.109 --> 01:25:58.349
their quote unquote global trust,

01:25:58.469 --> 01:26:01.050
global network of trusted third-party data

01:26:01.090 --> 01:26:01.689
sources.

01:26:02.449 --> 01:26:04.251
And they use it for training AI,

01:26:04.291 --> 01:26:04.990
I think he said.

01:26:05.030 --> 01:26:06.791
And yeah, right there, uh,

01:26:06.831 --> 01:26:07.872
to train their AI,

01:26:07.931 --> 01:26:08.912
where does my face go?

01:26:08.992 --> 01:26:09.971
Here's what LinkedIn gets.

01:26:09.992 --> 01:26:13.512
Here's what persona gets and the company

01:26:13.573 --> 01:26:15.573
that they, good God.

01:26:16.434 --> 01:26:17.094
Oh man.

01:26:17.253 --> 01:26:17.493
Yeah.

01:26:17.554 --> 01:26:18.673
This is just really crazy.

01:26:18.774 --> 01:26:19.934
And, um,

01:26:19.953 --> 01:26:22.074
just on the topic of all this, like,

01:26:22.175 --> 01:26:22.395
uh,

01:26:23.256 --> 01:26:24.738
like age verification stuff.

01:26:24.899 --> 01:26:26.100
It's, it's really worth,

01:26:26.579 --> 01:26:27.902
and he does have some actionable stuff

01:26:27.921 --> 01:26:28.922
towards the end for the record.

01:26:29.002 --> 01:26:29.342
Like, you know,

01:26:29.382 --> 01:26:31.404
if you can try to contact these companies,

01:26:31.444 --> 01:26:32.886
tell them to delete your data because

01:26:32.907 --> 01:26:33.787
they've already verified you.

01:26:33.807 --> 01:26:34.988
There's no reason they should be holding

01:26:35.048 --> 01:26:37.271
onto it in theory, but, um,

01:26:37.351 --> 01:26:38.112
and he's European.

01:26:38.131 --> 01:26:39.274
So this is very much written for the

01:26:39.314 --> 01:26:40.595
perspective of like, you know,

01:26:40.635 --> 01:26:42.317
the GDPR says this and you can contact

01:26:42.356 --> 01:26:43.238
this person, but, um,

01:26:43.969 --> 01:26:45.489
um it's just very eye-opening because i

01:26:45.510 --> 01:26:47.911
think a lot of us especially those of

01:26:47.951 --> 01:26:50.011
us who are people who aren't really more

01:26:50.030 --> 01:26:52.212
into privacy they kind of think especially

01:26:52.231 --> 01:26:53.512
when the company says like discord you

01:26:53.533 --> 01:26:54.672
know it's like oh you'll submit it and

01:26:54.693 --> 01:26:55.873
we'll delete it as soon as we're done

01:26:56.814 --> 01:26:58.555
but they don't all say that and there

01:26:58.614 --> 01:27:00.354
are situations where they won't do that

01:27:00.534 --> 01:27:01.796
and so yeah it's just kind of a

01:27:02.815 --> 01:27:04.417
it's kind of a very crazy thing um

01:27:04.497 --> 01:27:06.337
i thought it was a good read uh

01:27:06.356 --> 01:27:07.518
do you have anything you wanted to add

01:27:07.537 --> 01:27:07.778
to that

01:27:09.453 --> 01:27:11.774
So, yeah, you're right about Discord.

01:27:11.814 --> 01:27:14.356
So Discord was using KID originally.

01:27:14.856 --> 01:27:17.198
And because people kept bypassing it,

01:27:17.238 --> 01:27:18.498
they switched to Persona.

01:27:18.619 --> 01:27:22.242
So the benefit of KID is allegedly,

01:27:22.942 --> 01:27:24.503
in massive quotation marks,

01:27:25.323 --> 01:27:27.546
the picture doesn't leave your device and

01:27:27.786 --> 01:27:29.266
the scanning process is done on your

01:27:29.306 --> 01:27:29.926
device, right?

01:27:29.947 --> 01:27:31.568
That allowed people to bypass it.

01:27:31.648 --> 01:27:31.788
So...

01:27:32.529 --> 01:27:33.090
persona,

01:27:33.490 --> 01:27:35.373
you actually are sending it to them,

01:27:36.135 --> 01:27:36.975
the image to them.

01:27:37.636 --> 01:27:39.761
And people looked a little bit more into

01:27:39.820 --> 01:27:41.382
persona, which I didn't even know.

01:27:42.003 --> 01:27:42.625
Unfortunately,

01:27:43.706 --> 01:27:45.787
it's very common persona.

01:27:46.027 --> 01:27:47.927
It's like a very common, like, uh,

01:27:48.167 --> 01:27:49.108
age verification,

01:27:49.208 --> 01:27:50.509
identity verification thing.

01:27:51.029 --> 01:27:53.130
Um, so people are bringing up, uh,

01:27:53.951 --> 01:27:54.690
basically this,

01:27:54.871 --> 01:27:58.032
this persona service actually has links to

01:27:58.493 --> 01:28:00.333
Peter Thiel's Palantir.

01:28:00.394 --> 01:28:01.634
So if you don't know Palantir,

01:28:01.654 --> 01:28:05.576
they make like spyware and like mass

01:28:05.595 --> 01:28:06.756
surveillance technology.

01:28:07.497 --> 01:28:08.077
Um, so yeah,

01:28:08.755 --> 01:28:11.475
It's kind of concerning that there was a

01:28:11.536 --> 01:28:12.136
link here.

01:28:12.516 --> 01:28:15.177
I'm reading this article from Kotaku,

01:28:15.898 --> 01:28:21.341
and it says that one of Persona's biggest

01:28:21.381 --> 01:28:28.463
investors was Peter Thiel.

01:28:28.524 --> 01:28:29.564
So I'm not really sure.

01:28:29.804 --> 01:28:31.225
I don't know.

01:28:31.704 --> 01:28:33.586
This is very sus, obviously.

01:28:33.926 --> 01:28:35.127
It seems like there's some...

01:28:37.078 --> 01:28:37.859
connection here.

01:28:38.180 --> 01:28:40.201
I'm not entirely sure what the whole

01:28:40.240 --> 01:28:42.703
context is for that, but, you know,

01:28:42.823 --> 01:28:44.623
I think it's also great that this person

01:28:44.644 --> 01:28:46.286
was able to put together a list of

01:28:46.985 --> 01:28:51.248
all of these data points that Persona is

01:28:51.288 --> 01:28:51.789
collecting,

01:28:52.210 --> 01:28:53.530
because I feel like a lot of people

01:28:53.711 --> 01:28:56.172
just assume that this data is

01:28:58.100 --> 01:28:59.581
probably collected,

01:28:59.640 --> 01:29:01.402
but it's good to get a validation that

01:29:01.702 --> 01:29:03.363
they are collecting passport photos,

01:29:03.422 --> 01:29:05.023
selfies, facial geometry.

01:29:05.644 --> 01:29:07.805
I'm not sure about NFC chip data.

01:29:07.885 --> 01:29:09.125
I feel like you would have to scan

01:29:09.164 --> 01:29:09.945
the chip itself,

01:29:09.985 --> 01:29:11.306
which as far as I know,

01:29:11.327 --> 01:29:12.266
it doesn't ask you to do.

01:29:13.106 --> 01:29:15.548
National ID number, nationality, sex,

01:29:15.609 --> 01:29:16.889
birth date, et cetera.

01:29:17.930 --> 01:29:19.930
So a lot of that does make sense

01:29:19.951 --> 01:29:21.291
for the service they're providing,

01:29:21.372 --> 01:29:21.572
but

01:29:22.542 --> 01:29:23.003
Obviously,

01:29:23.064 --> 01:29:25.168
you shouldn't need to provide this in the

01:29:25.208 --> 01:29:26.171
first place.

01:29:26.211 --> 01:29:27.935
This is a lot of sensitive information.

01:29:28.256 --> 01:29:29.899
Someone could steal your identity with all

01:29:29.918 --> 01:29:30.621
this information.

01:29:34.323 --> 01:29:37.145
Yeah, so Draken Blacklight said,

01:29:37.886 --> 01:29:40.689
Peter Thiel is evil, and yeah,

01:29:41.009 --> 01:29:41.609
I would say so.

01:29:41.708 --> 01:29:44.792
Like, yeah, evil CEO vibes, definitely.

01:29:44.811 --> 01:29:47.153
I don't really know too much about him,

01:29:47.212 --> 01:29:50.175
but I know quite a bit about Palantir,

01:29:50.336 --> 01:29:51.576
and it's, like,

01:29:52.476 --> 01:29:54.018
one of the worst companies to ever exist.

01:29:54.037 --> 01:29:54.198
Like,

01:29:54.257 --> 01:29:56.300
why would you name your company Palantir?

01:29:56.479 --> 01:29:57.220
Like, it's, like...

01:29:58.427 --> 01:30:00.689
That's like, are we the baddies?

01:30:01.548 --> 01:30:02.229
You know what I mean?

01:30:03.989 --> 01:30:04.970
So yeah, Nate,

01:30:05.010 --> 01:30:06.090
did you have anything you want to add

01:30:06.690 --> 01:30:09.291
there?

01:30:09.350 --> 01:30:11.311
No, no, I don't think so.

01:30:13.231 --> 01:30:14.313
I love that sketch for the record.

01:30:14.332 --> 01:30:15.653
That's one of my favorite sketches of all

01:30:15.672 --> 01:30:16.613
time.

01:30:16.634 --> 01:30:17.894
Are we the baddies?

01:30:18.734 --> 01:30:19.014
Yeah.

01:30:19.814 --> 01:30:20.814
No, that's all I got on that one.

01:30:21.875 --> 01:30:22.774
I think we can move on to,

01:30:22.814 --> 01:30:24.615
we had one other quick forum post,

01:30:24.676 --> 01:30:25.095
I think.

01:30:26.176 --> 01:30:27.136
Did you have a chance to look at

01:30:27.176 --> 01:30:28.016
that one at all or?

01:30:29.963 --> 01:30:32.806
No, you can take it for sure.

01:30:32.907 --> 01:30:33.646
Okay.

01:30:33.667 --> 01:30:35.109
Yeah, it's just Entei.

01:30:36.210 --> 01:30:37.390
I swear I never pronounce it right.

01:30:37.430 --> 01:30:38.030
I think it's Entei.

01:30:38.051 --> 01:30:38.771
It might be Entei.

01:30:39.412 --> 01:30:39.932
I think it's Entei.

01:30:40.653 --> 01:30:42.215
Entei, the popular photo manager.

01:30:42.234 --> 01:30:44.095
They also have a password manager.

01:30:44.537 --> 01:30:45.717
No, not a password manager.

01:30:46.438 --> 01:30:47.158
Authenticator app.

01:30:47.238 --> 01:30:48.920
They have a two FA authenticator app.

01:30:49.900 --> 01:30:51.122
But Entei, really cool people.

01:30:51.722 --> 01:30:53.944
They have released Entei Locker.

01:30:54.672 --> 01:30:57.618
which let me go...

01:30:58.520 --> 01:31:01.224
I can go ahead and share the blog

01:31:01.264 --> 01:31:02.246
post here real quick.

01:31:02.867 --> 01:31:04.229
So this is kind of...

01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:07.421
This is kind of like a very low,

01:31:08.604 --> 01:31:09.725
I haven't played with it myself and I

01:31:09.744 --> 01:31:11.827
feel bad I should have because admittedly

01:31:11.948 --> 01:31:13.048
I did get an email from them like

01:31:13.088 --> 01:31:14.390
two weeks ago that was like, Hey,

01:31:14.911 --> 01:31:16.372
we're giving people early access.

01:31:16.533 --> 01:31:17.394
Like, cause you know,

01:31:17.914 --> 01:31:19.216
I'm an influencer and they're like,

01:31:19.537 --> 01:31:21.458
just don't release it until this day.

01:31:21.599 --> 01:31:22.760
And I've just been so busy.

01:31:22.841 --> 01:31:24.122
I haven't looked at it at all.

01:31:24.202 --> 01:31:24.762
And I feel bad.

01:31:25.203 --> 01:31:25.922
because I want to.

01:31:26.103 --> 01:31:29.404
But it's supposed to be like a little

01:31:29.463 --> 01:31:32.265
vault to organize and store your important

01:31:32.305 --> 01:31:32.704
documents.

01:31:32.725 --> 01:31:33.284
So for example,

01:31:33.345 --> 01:31:34.904
he cites like medical records,

01:31:34.925 --> 01:31:36.586
insurance policies, identity cards,

01:31:37.105 --> 01:31:38.185
passwords, and notes.

01:31:39.725 --> 01:31:41.546
They say that you can share them with

01:31:41.606 --> 01:31:42.266
trusted people.

01:31:42.306 --> 01:31:43.646
You can set up trusted contacts.

01:31:43.787 --> 01:31:45.287
So kind of like a lot of password

01:31:45.307 --> 01:31:48.467
managers these days have legacy contacts

01:31:48.488 --> 01:31:49.788
where they can request access to your

01:31:49.828 --> 01:31:50.109
vault.

01:31:50.149 --> 01:31:50.729
And if you don't,

01:31:51.269 --> 01:31:52.551
reject it in a certain amount of time,

01:31:52.570 --> 01:31:54.012
like three days or seven days and they

01:31:54.033 --> 01:31:54.573
get access.

01:31:54.592 --> 01:31:56.515
And the idea is God forbid,

01:31:56.536 --> 01:31:57.697
you step outside tomorrow,

01:31:57.716 --> 01:31:58.578
you get hit by a bus,

01:31:58.618 --> 01:32:00.079
then somebody can still get access to your

01:32:00.100 --> 01:32:01.442
passwords and, you know,

01:32:01.462 --> 01:32:02.804
make sure the bills are paid or whatever.

01:32:02.844 --> 01:32:04.045
I think it's really more for, um,

01:32:04.905 --> 01:32:06.467
like head of household kind of scenarios

01:32:06.507 --> 01:32:07.189
or caretakers.

01:32:07.569 --> 01:32:07.649
Um,

01:32:08.786 --> 01:32:09.827
They say it's free for up to a

01:32:09.867 --> 01:32:11.408
hundred items, all features included.

01:32:11.768 --> 01:32:12.569
If you're a subscriber,

01:32:12.628 --> 01:32:14.189
you can store up to a thousand items.

01:32:14.609 --> 01:32:15.831
It's fully end-to-end encrypted,

01:32:15.911 --> 01:32:16.891
fully open source.

01:32:17.693 --> 01:32:19.333
Uh, I don't know if this is self-hostable,

01:32:19.373 --> 01:32:19.753
but honestly,

01:32:19.793 --> 01:32:20.975
I wouldn't be surprised if it is in

01:32:20.994 --> 01:32:23.096
the future because I know Entei Photos is

01:32:23.136 --> 01:32:25.377
already self-hostable and they even have a

01:32:25.398 --> 01:32:26.658
blog post about how to do that.

01:32:26.819 --> 01:32:28.440
So yeah.

01:32:28.701 --> 01:32:29.801
Um,

01:32:29.862 --> 01:32:30.981
I think the question I've been seeing a

01:32:31.002 --> 01:32:33.104
lot of people ask and one I admit

01:32:33.224 --> 01:32:34.324
I will ask and, uh,

01:32:35.457 --> 01:32:36.759
I might email them back and ask this

01:32:36.798 --> 01:32:37.338
question, actually.

01:32:37.359 --> 01:32:38.319
But basically,

01:32:38.399 --> 01:32:40.140
why would I use this instead of something

01:32:40.180 --> 01:32:41.841
like NextCloud or ProtonDrive?

01:32:41.881 --> 01:32:42.442
Well,

01:32:42.502 --> 01:32:44.382
I think NextCloud is obvious for several

01:32:44.403 --> 01:32:44.663
reasons.

01:32:44.724 --> 01:32:47.725
But something like ProtonDrive or one of

01:32:47.744 --> 01:32:50.426
the other cloud-based encrypted clouds

01:32:50.447 --> 01:32:51.688
that we would normally recommend.

01:32:52.368 --> 01:32:54.909
And I think in my personal opinion,

01:32:55.109 --> 01:32:56.490
I would say maybe the answer there is

01:32:56.530 --> 01:32:56.751
like,

01:32:58.416 --> 01:33:01.497
maybe it's like simpler or maybe it's kind

01:33:01.537 --> 01:33:03.198
of a more, a more minimal version.

01:33:03.217 --> 01:33:03.838
Let me put it that way.

01:33:03.899 --> 01:33:06.760
Cause I will admit if my password manager,

01:33:06.899 --> 01:33:08.461
as much as I preach digital minimalism and

01:33:08.501 --> 01:33:09.220
I try to live by it,

01:33:09.641 --> 01:33:15.623
it still has hundreds of, of, of entries.

01:33:16.145 --> 01:33:16.965
It's cause you know,

01:33:16.984 --> 01:33:19.086
there's all kinds of things that like I

01:33:19.166 --> 01:33:20.106
use a couple times a year,

01:33:20.146 --> 01:33:22.368
like my medical portal I'm in,

01:33:22.448 --> 01:33:23.667
I'm relatively healthy right now.

01:33:23.768 --> 01:33:24.828
So I don't,

01:33:25.310 --> 01:33:27.273
really log into the doctor's office a lot

01:33:27.353 --> 01:33:29.435
other than like to schedule physicals and,

01:33:29.456 --> 01:33:30.317
you know, stuff like that.

01:33:31.859 --> 01:33:33.240
What else am I, I don't even know,

01:33:33.261 --> 01:33:34.483
but there's things that I just don't log

01:33:34.523 --> 01:33:35.283
into very often,

01:33:35.323 --> 01:33:36.485
but I have accounts for them.

01:33:36.685 --> 01:33:39.850
And so, you know, if again, God forbid,

01:33:39.871 --> 01:33:40.612
if I were to get hit by a

01:33:40.631 --> 01:33:40.931
bus,

01:33:41.032 --> 01:33:41.252
I think

01:33:42.563 --> 01:33:43.965
I could see how it'd be stressful for

01:33:44.005 --> 01:33:45.726
my wife to have to go through hundreds

01:33:45.787 --> 01:33:47.628
of entries and try to figure out like,

01:33:48.170 --> 01:33:48.750
you know, okay,

01:33:48.810 --> 01:33:50.011
which one is where we pay the rent,

01:33:50.051 --> 01:33:51.212
which she should have access to that too.

01:33:51.252 --> 01:33:51.493
But you know,

01:33:51.514 --> 01:33:52.335
which one's where we pay the rent,

01:33:52.354 --> 01:33:53.095
which one's utilities,

01:33:53.115 --> 01:33:54.337
which one's insurance,

01:33:54.356 --> 01:33:56.319
which one's banking this, that,

01:33:56.338 --> 01:33:56.859
and the other.

01:33:57.341 --> 01:33:59.262
And I could definitely see it being really

01:33:59.342 --> 01:34:00.744
useful where there's a space where like,

01:34:00.784 --> 01:34:01.425
look, here's like,

01:34:02.099 --> 01:34:04.460
the ten or fifteen things you need to

01:34:05.119 --> 01:34:07.300
keep a roof over our head, keep groceries,

01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:09.900
and just figure everything else out later.

01:34:09.980 --> 01:34:11.341
So I think for me,

01:34:12.100 --> 01:34:15.042
or maybe if you don't use the cloud,

01:34:15.082 --> 01:34:16.582
if you just keep really steady backups,

01:34:16.622 --> 01:34:18.603
this could be the one minimal cloud you

01:34:18.722 --> 01:34:18.863
use,

01:34:18.903 --> 01:34:20.042
especially if you're already an Entei

01:34:20.122 --> 01:34:20.382
user.

01:34:21.644 --> 01:34:21.944
I don't know.

01:34:21.984 --> 01:34:22.804
Those are kind of my thoughts,

01:34:22.884 --> 01:34:23.703
just off the cuff.

01:34:23.944 --> 01:34:26.465
But do you have any thoughts on this

01:34:26.505 --> 01:34:27.005
product, Jordan?

01:34:28.965 --> 01:34:29.786
I mean, yeah.

01:34:29.865 --> 01:34:30.746
I kind of see it as...

01:34:32.085 --> 01:34:32.364
I guess,

01:34:32.385 --> 01:34:34.726
an extension to a password manager or just

01:34:34.766 --> 01:34:36.569
like an alternative, I guess.

01:34:36.868 --> 01:34:38.329
I don't know.

01:34:39.091 --> 01:34:42.234
I think this is an interesting idea.

01:34:43.154 --> 01:34:45.716
I'm not sure if this sort of,

01:34:46.917 --> 01:34:48.118
I feel like there's been a couple of

01:34:48.179 --> 01:34:49.800
companies that have tried to do a similar

01:34:49.819 --> 01:34:50.319
product.

01:34:52.181 --> 01:34:53.783
I guess it's nice to have everything in

01:34:53.802 --> 01:34:54.944
a separate spot.

01:34:55.425 --> 01:34:56.685
It kind of makes sense that

01:34:58.788 --> 01:35:01.029
Entei is kind of trying to have like

01:35:01.069 --> 01:35:02.791
a drive-ish sort of thing.

01:35:02.810 --> 01:35:04.851
I guess it's more like,

01:35:05.231 --> 01:35:06.551
I feel like it's more like a password

01:35:06.591 --> 01:35:10.634
manager, but yeah, I mean,

01:35:10.673 --> 01:35:11.914
this is a password manager.

01:35:11.975 --> 01:35:12.994
I think if, if we,

01:35:13.375 --> 01:35:14.435
if we're being honest,

01:35:14.456 --> 01:35:16.095
like this is basically just like a

01:35:16.136 --> 01:35:17.117
password manager.

01:35:18.216 --> 01:35:18.658
So, I mean,

01:35:19.097 --> 01:35:20.917
it'll be interesting to see how this

01:35:21.878 --> 01:35:24.220
product works in like, you know,

01:35:25.385 --> 01:35:26.966
I haven't personally tried it out.

01:35:27.126 --> 01:35:30.228
It says it is available right now in

01:35:30.628 --> 01:35:32.569
the app stores, any popular app stores.

01:35:32.609 --> 01:35:37.132
So it could be an interesting alternative,

01:35:37.172 --> 01:35:39.895
but I think we'll have to watch it

01:35:40.395 --> 01:35:41.015
closely.

01:35:41.115 --> 01:35:43.216
It seems like it's less about

01:35:43.377 --> 01:35:43.898
auto-filling,

01:35:43.917 --> 01:35:46.800
like it's more just like a specific place

01:35:46.819 --> 01:35:49.280
to store private documents and stuff.

01:35:50.805 --> 01:35:52.847
So I'm not sure if this needed to

01:35:52.887 --> 01:35:54.409
be a separate product or not.

01:35:54.510 --> 01:35:56.032
I feel like there's already products that

01:35:56.072 --> 01:35:56.511
do this.

01:35:56.652 --> 01:36:01.458
But I think if they build out the

01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:03.421
features to really cover a lot of these

01:36:03.461 --> 01:36:06.604
important things that people need a

01:36:06.645 --> 01:36:08.186
separate app for, for instance,

01:36:09.314 --> 01:36:10.836
Compartmentalization is good.

01:36:11.077 --> 01:36:11.657
I think, you know,

01:36:11.936 --> 01:36:13.479
not having all those documents in your

01:36:13.519 --> 01:36:14.298
password manager,

01:36:14.338 --> 01:36:16.400
but instead in this separate app would be

01:36:17.162 --> 01:36:18.842
a security benefit to some people.

01:36:19.063 --> 01:36:19.684
So, I mean,

01:36:19.783 --> 01:36:22.265
I don't think it's a terrible idea.

01:36:22.345 --> 01:36:24.087
I think it's something we'll have to watch

01:36:24.127 --> 01:36:26.989
because right now it does look relatively

01:36:27.050 --> 01:36:27.550
basic,

01:36:27.791 --> 01:36:29.752
but it is kind of expected considering

01:36:29.931 --> 01:36:31.573
they only just released the product.

01:36:32.774 --> 01:36:36.114
So yeah, overall, pretty interested in it.

01:36:36.914 --> 01:36:38.255
But I think it will need some extra

01:36:38.295 --> 01:36:38.755
testing,

01:36:38.814 --> 01:36:41.195
and we'll see how the development process

01:36:41.235 --> 01:36:44.115
goes.

01:36:44.216 --> 01:36:45.275
Yeah, I'm with you.

01:36:45.336 --> 01:36:46.837
I'll be interested to see where they take

01:36:46.896 --> 01:36:47.016
it.

01:36:48.117 --> 01:36:49.256
I will say, to me,

01:36:49.277 --> 01:36:50.617
it doesn't strike me as a password

01:36:50.657 --> 01:36:52.398
manager, because the photos they show,

01:36:52.417 --> 01:36:55.297
the screenshots are like, there's a JPEG,

01:36:55.318 --> 01:36:56.498
there's a couple of PDFs.

01:36:58.591 --> 01:36:59.052
I don't know.

01:36:59.373 --> 01:37:00.938
This one here looks interesting.

01:37:01.018 --> 01:37:03.684
It says thing, and then the subtext is...

01:37:05.094 --> 01:37:07.355
uh, save location of real world items.

01:37:08.036 --> 01:37:08.336
So like,

01:37:08.376 --> 01:37:09.997
I guess you could drop like a GPS

01:37:10.037 --> 01:37:10.677
pin, like, Oh,

01:37:10.698 --> 01:37:12.139
this is the storage unit or something,

01:37:12.179 --> 01:37:13.198
which I mean, for the record,

01:37:13.679 --> 01:37:14.680
of course there's workarounds.

01:37:14.699 --> 01:37:15.621
Like you could put that in the note

01:37:15.661 --> 01:37:16.862
section of your password manager.

01:37:16.902 --> 01:37:17.141
Right.

01:37:17.242 --> 01:37:18.202
But I don't know.

01:37:18.221 --> 01:37:18.823
That's interesting.

01:37:18.842 --> 01:37:20.024
I kind of like that.

01:37:20.043 --> 01:37:20.923
I think I do want to dig into

01:37:20.944 --> 01:37:21.503
this a little more.

01:37:21.904 --> 01:37:22.324
I'm interested.

01:37:22.345 --> 01:37:23.506
I'm not, like you said,

01:37:23.525 --> 01:37:24.466
I'm not totally sold.

01:37:24.725 --> 01:37:25.226
Um,

01:37:25.266 --> 01:37:26.707
but I would be interested to know what

01:37:26.747 --> 01:37:28.609
they think the use cases for this and

01:37:29.155 --> 01:37:29.756
And yeah,

01:37:30.077 --> 01:37:30.978
I think I'll shoot him an email this

01:37:31.018 --> 01:37:32.439
weekend, because I do like it.

01:37:32.738 --> 01:37:36.483
It's just, yeah.

01:37:36.603 --> 01:37:37.804
And real quick, actually,

01:37:38.083 --> 01:37:39.805
I think that does take us to our

01:37:39.845 --> 01:37:40.386
questions.

01:37:42.033 --> 01:37:43.975
So I was going to mention Lucas here.

01:37:44.055 --> 01:37:44.636
Lucas said,

01:37:45.617 --> 01:37:47.978
would a one thousand password mean one

01:37:48.018 --> 01:37:48.878
thousand items?

01:37:49.519 --> 01:37:51.140
Like a one thousand character password?

01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:51.980
I hope not.

01:37:54.962 --> 01:37:55.804
But yeah, I mean,

01:37:55.923 --> 01:37:57.364
I think a password would count as an

01:37:57.484 --> 01:37:58.465
item, to be honest.

01:38:00.652 --> 01:38:02.653
So yeah,

01:38:03.092 --> 01:38:06.073
let's go ahead and transition to our Q&A

01:38:06.134 --> 01:38:06.934
section here.

01:38:09.494 --> 01:38:09.935
Unfortunately,

01:38:09.954 --> 01:38:11.494
it does not look like we have any

01:38:11.534 --> 01:38:12.676
questions on the forum.

01:38:13.015 --> 01:38:14.115
Might be kind of a light week.

01:38:15.337 --> 01:38:18.757
But were there any questions you

01:38:18.837 --> 01:38:20.278
specifically noticed, Jordan,

01:38:20.297 --> 01:38:22.259
or any comments you wanted to shout out?

01:38:23.998 --> 01:38:26.319
Someone said, floating head,

01:38:26.539 --> 01:38:27.340
question mark.

01:38:29.100 --> 01:38:29.341
Yeah.

01:38:30.579 --> 01:38:31.340
You know, it's good.

01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:32.980
You need to protect your privacy.

01:38:33.001 --> 01:38:33.280
You know,

01:38:33.421 --> 01:38:36.002
everyone has certain requirements.

01:38:36.042 --> 01:38:38.141
So that's just my requirement.

01:38:39.743 --> 01:38:41.222
I feel like everyone can understand that

01:38:41.243 --> 01:38:43.123
in this community, you know.

01:38:43.163 --> 01:38:45.724
So not really surprising, I don't think.

01:38:47.725 --> 01:38:49.104
Is it a locked note app or a

01:38:49.164 --> 01:38:51.506
password manager, Lucas says.

01:38:52.466 --> 01:38:53.046
I guess it's...

01:38:53.485 --> 01:38:55.247
I feel like it's in between that because

01:38:55.266 --> 01:38:57.228
it does store passwords technically and it

01:38:57.287 --> 01:38:57.967
also stores...

01:38:58.948 --> 01:38:59.748
like Nate was saying,

01:38:59.788 --> 01:39:01.270
like that other information.

01:39:02.291 --> 01:39:03.230
If you watch the actual,

01:39:03.310 --> 01:39:05.653
like there's like a one minute intro video

01:39:06.354 --> 01:39:07.795
from the CEO, Vishnu.

01:39:08.815 --> 01:39:09.496
If you watch that,

01:39:09.576 --> 01:39:11.818
it was the reason he decided to create

01:39:11.837 --> 01:39:13.878
it was because his dad was struggling with

01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:17.122
like storing documents securely and having

01:39:17.141 --> 01:39:18.262
a way to access it.

01:39:19.684 --> 01:39:21.164
So it does seem like, you know,

01:39:22.815 --> 01:39:24.960
It is a tool that is applicable to

01:39:25.020 --> 01:39:25.621
some people,

01:39:27.003 --> 01:39:29.809
maybe not as much for people who are

01:39:29.850 --> 01:39:31.872
really into privacy and security stuff,

01:39:31.974 --> 01:39:33.777
but I think, you know,

01:39:35.029 --> 01:39:37.572
It's clear that they've thought out this

01:39:37.612 --> 01:39:38.592
product quite a lot.

01:39:39.792 --> 01:39:40.993
So I don't know.

01:39:41.094 --> 01:39:43.275
I think it's worth downloading it and

01:39:43.315 --> 01:39:45.216
trying it yourself if it fits for what

01:39:45.237 --> 01:39:45.676
you need,

01:39:45.978 --> 01:39:47.318
if you need this sort of app.

01:39:47.417 --> 01:39:47.618
I mean,

01:39:47.679 --> 01:39:49.340
I don't need every single app that you

01:39:49.380 --> 01:39:49.680
need.

01:39:50.180 --> 01:39:51.520
Everyone has different needs.

01:39:51.661 --> 01:39:53.483
So if this is something you do need,

01:39:54.182 --> 01:39:55.024
maybe check it out.

01:39:55.243 --> 01:39:57.385
And maybe it might actually be something

01:39:57.425 --> 01:39:57.645
that...

01:39:59.105 --> 01:40:00.025
fits your use case.

01:40:00.126 --> 01:40:00.627
Obviously,

01:40:01.146 --> 01:40:03.368
Privacy Guides is not going to recommend

01:40:03.427 --> 01:40:06.048
this until we've had it announced by the

01:40:06.069 --> 01:40:07.969
community and it passes all of our

01:40:08.009 --> 01:40:08.630
criteria.

01:40:08.850 --> 01:40:11.591
But I would say that's pretty likely that

01:40:11.610 --> 01:40:14.190
will happen just because Entei has a

01:40:14.231 --> 01:40:16.112
couple of their products listed on Privacy

01:40:16.131 --> 01:40:17.592
Guides already because they've been so

01:40:17.613 --> 01:40:20.474
great about auditing their software and,

01:40:20.654 --> 01:40:20.873
you know,

01:40:21.823 --> 01:40:23.104
being generally proactive.

01:40:23.444 --> 01:40:27.106
So I wouldn't be surprised if the same

01:40:27.127 --> 01:40:28.828
thing happened for this new app.

01:40:28.847 --> 01:40:32.190
ANDREW FITZ GIBBONS, Yeah, for sure.

01:40:34.104 --> 01:40:36.025
Um, not really a question,

01:40:36.046 --> 01:40:37.407
but earlier when we were talking about

01:40:37.466 --> 01:40:37.947
persona,

01:40:38.106 --> 01:40:39.648
Lucas said that apparently discord has

01:40:39.667 --> 01:40:41.028
stated they will not continue to use

01:40:41.068 --> 01:40:42.788
persona for age verification because of

01:40:42.809 --> 01:40:43.529
all the pushback.

01:40:43.609 --> 01:40:45.350
So, um,

01:40:45.371 --> 01:40:46.690
I've heard a lot of conflicting things.

01:40:46.770 --> 01:40:47.310
I've heard they,

01:40:47.891 --> 01:40:49.512
they started working with persona and then

01:40:49.533 --> 01:40:50.092
they're not.

01:40:50.113 --> 01:40:51.252
And I've heard there's like you said,

01:40:51.292 --> 01:40:53.994
there's like ties to Peter Thiel and, um,

01:40:54.414 --> 01:40:54.675
yeah.

01:40:54.774 --> 01:40:56.395
So I hope they stop working with them,

01:40:56.435 --> 01:40:58.237
but I haven't done any digging on that

01:40:58.296 --> 01:40:58.676
myself.

01:40:59.914 --> 01:41:02.015
And then just one other one real quick.

01:41:02.395 --> 01:41:03.337
Hello Hello said,

01:41:03.636 --> 01:41:04.597
they're straight from Mordor.

01:41:04.618 --> 01:41:05.377
For those who don't know,

01:41:05.478 --> 01:41:07.798
because you're not a massive nerd like me,

01:41:08.139 --> 01:41:10.341
Palantir is the name in Lord of the

01:41:10.381 --> 01:41:10.740
Rings

01:41:12.250 --> 01:41:12.789
It's been a while.

01:41:12.869 --> 01:41:14.070
I'm due for a rewatch because I know

01:41:14.091 --> 01:41:15.712
it's like the twenty fifth anniversary of

01:41:15.752 --> 01:41:17.073
Fellowship of the Ring this year.

01:41:18.274 --> 01:41:19.354
I think Palantir,

01:41:19.394 --> 01:41:22.636
the Palantir is like the little orb that

01:41:23.657 --> 01:41:24.657
the bad guy Sauron,

01:41:24.697 --> 01:41:26.137
he's like the big bad guy and his

01:41:26.177 --> 01:41:27.298
like secondhand Saruman.

01:41:27.639 --> 01:41:29.479
They use it to communicate long distances,

01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:30.400
kind of like a crystal ball.

01:41:31.301 --> 01:41:32.462
Um, I could be getting that wrong.

01:41:32.502 --> 01:41:32.762
Like I said,

01:41:32.783 --> 01:41:33.743
it's been a long time and I haven't

01:41:33.764 --> 01:41:35.225
read the book since I was really young,

01:41:35.284 --> 01:41:36.466
so that's not going to save me either.

01:41:36.546 --> 01:41:37.726
But, um, yeah,

01:41:37.766 --> 01:41:39.569
but it is literally like there's a company

01:41:39.588 --> 01:41:41.690
in China that named themselves Skynet

01:41:42.171 --> 01:41:43.693
because the CEO really liked the

01:41:43.712 --> 01:41:44.554
Terminator series.

01:41:44.634 --> 01:41:45.975
And it's the exact same thing.

01:41:46.015 --> 01:41:47.697
It's just like, oh, I'm a huge,

01:41:47.997 --> 01:41:48.738
and they all do it.

01:41:48.757 --> 01:41:50.139
There's another one called Enduro,

01:41:50.298 --> 01:41:51.500
which is another Lord of the Rings

01:41:51.539 --> 01:41:51.940
reference.

01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:53.881
Um, there's others I'm forgetting,

01:41:53.921 --> 01:41:54.523
but they all do.

01:41:54.603 --> 01:41:56.104
And I feel like they do it to

01:41:56.123 --> 01:41:57.284
be like cheeky and funny.

01:41:57.324 --> 01:41:58.064
Like, Oh,

01:41:58.085 --> 01:41:59.806
we're just a bunch of harmless nerds.

01:42:00.207 --> 01:42:00.966
And it's like, okay,

01:42:01.006 --> 01:42:02.408
but that's like in a thousand years.

01:42:02.548 --> 01:42:04.369
And actually it's not like this because

01:42:04.449 --> 01:42:06.070
this actually happened, but like,

01:42:06.150 --> 01:42:07.332
imagine in a thousand years,

01:42:07.391 --> 01:42:08.472
some companies like, Oh yeah,

01:42:08.512 --> 01:42:09.854
we named ourselves like third Reich

01:42:09.913 --> 01:42:10.413
industries.

01:42:10.475 --> 01:42:10.835
It's like,

01:42:11.956 --> 01:42:13.076
what the hell is wrong with you?

01:42:13.216 --> 01:42:14.277
Like, why would you do that?

01:42:14.917 --> 01:42:15.578
Like you said, it's like,

01:42:15.798 --> 01:42:16.479
are we the baddies?

01:42:16.519 --> 01:42:17.880
Like, yes, you're trying to prove you are.

01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:19.041
It's, it's insane, but.

01:42:20.259 --> 01:42:21.920
Yeah, I digress.

01:42:22.020 --> 01:42:22.199
I mean,

01:42:22.380 --> 01:42:24.481
I personally thought that their logo

01:42:24.502 --> 01:42:25.981
looked a little bit like the Eye of

01:42:26.082 --> 01:42:28.404
Sauron a little bit, but I mean... Oh,

01:42:28.423 --> 01:42:28.823
hold on.

01:42:28.844 --> 01:42:29.805
I've never seen their logo.

01:42:30.505 --> 01:42:31.506
I have to go look this up now.

01:42:31.525 --> 01:42:32.426
I don't think I've seen their logo.

01:42:32.445 --> 01:42:33.587
I feel like it does look like the

01:42:33.627 --> 01:42:35.387
Palantir thing that you were saying.

01:42:35.948 --> 01:42:37.509
It does look like that.

01:42:38.189 --> 01:42:39.591
Yeah, it's like him holding the orb.

01:42:39.631 --> 01:42:40.011
I see it.

01:42:42.936 --> 01:42:44.537
Oh my God.

01:42:44.557 --> 01:42:44.639
Yeah.

01:42:44.658 --> 01:42:46.560
I almost wonder if they are like genuinely

01:42:46.600 --> 01:42:48.360
malicious and this is them just like

01:42:48.400 --> 01:42:48.881
trying to, like,

01:42:48.902 --> 01:42:49.983
you know how a lot of times people

01:42:50.023 --> 01:42:51.884
in conspiracy theories will be like, oh,

01:42:52.163 --> 01:42:53.824
they're leaving all these breadcrumbs and

01:42:53.845 --> 01:42:55.546
it's like, no, you're reading into it.

01:42:55.886 --> 01:42:57.127
And this almost makes me wonder if like,

01:42:57.247 --> 01:42:57.908
are they right?

01:42:58.009 --> 01:42:58.149
Like,

01:42:58.248 --> 01:43:00.189
are they genuinely leaving breadcrumbs and

01:43:00.229 --> 01:43:00.871
we're just ignoring it?

01:43:00.890 --> 01:43:03.252
Because that is so spot on.

01:43:03.313 --> 01:43:05.134
That is horrifying.

01:43:05.194 --> 01:43:06.234
I don't want to live in this timeline

01:43:06.274 --> 01:43:06.595
anymore.

01:43:06.614 --> 01:43:09.277
Okay.

01:43:09.377 --> 01:43:09.757
I digress.

01:43:11.877 --> 01:43:12.778
Do you have any other questions or

01:43:12.797 --> 01:43:16.279
comments you want to highlight?

01:43:16.319 --> 01:43:16.738
Not really.

01:43:16.798 --> 01:43:18.220
I think this has just sort of been

01:43:18.300 --> 01:43:19.720
a quiet week this week.

01:43:21.060 --> 01:43:22.021
So thanks, everybody,

01:43:22.082 --> 01:43:24.582
for chatting in the chat with us and

01:43:24.603 --> 01:43:25.262
stuff like that.

01:43:25.323 --> 01:43:25.762
But yeah,

01:43:25.783 --> 01:43:27.684
it doesn't seem like we have any questions

01:43:27.724 --> 01:43:30.305
on the forum, unfortunately.

01:43:30.364 --> 01:43:30.725
Yeah.

01:43:30.744 --> 01:43:31.164
Thank you, guys,

01:43:31.185 --> 01:43:32.065
who showed up and chatted.

01:43:32.105 --> 01:43:32.945
Thank you for the regulars.

01:43:32.985 --> 01:43:34.146
It's always nice to see you guys.

01:43:35.190 --> 01:43:35.731
Um,

01:43:35.851 --> 01:43:37.393
all the updates from this week in privacy

01:43:37.472 --> 01:43:39.113
will be shared on the blog every week,

01:43:39.134 --> 01:43:40.956
uh, which is already out now.

01:43:41.176 --> 01:43:42.337
And in case you guys didn't know,

01:43:42.738 --> 01:43:44.298
we've started sending that out right when

01:43:44.319 --> 01:43:45.019
we start streaming.

01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:45.920
So, um,

01:43:45.979 --> 01:43:46.881
if you want to go sign up for

01:43:46.900 --> 01:43:49.143
that as a newsletter or subscribe on RSS,

01:43:49.563 --> 01:43:51.024
that's a good little indicator right

01:43:51.043 --> 01:43:51.265
there.

01:43:51.324 --> 01:43:52.185
Reminder, um,

01:43:52.225 --> 01:43:54.466
to get that notification for people who

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