Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome Lisa and Dale.
I'm very excited to have you here.
Hi.
Dale: We're delighted to be here.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank
Lisa: you for inviting us.
Anke: My pleasure.
So let's just, let's just start.
We're letting people know where in this lovely world you are and you
know, what's your business with dogs?
Dale: Yeah.
Okay.
Okay, Lisa, you can go first.
Thank you
Lisa: so.
So well, I, I'm Lisa Hurd and I, I've been running, um, dog behavior
clinic as my business is called, um, in Lincolnshire in England.
You'll find out where day is.
She's quite a distance from me.
Um, so I, most of my clients come from vet referrals.
Um.
I, I take others as well.
Um, and from rescue centers, I think one of my passions is, is
rescue dogs and trying to help them, you know, find their new homes.
So that's kind of my background is, is rescue.
Um, I've been involved in canine education for many years with several different.
Course providers, um, and I from Dog Behavior Clinic, I provide
sort of CPD training for vet clinics and other professionals.
And Dale and I have known each other a number of years, shall we say.
It's quite a long time.
I'm not even gonna count.
Um.
And we've both got extensive experience in the canine behavior industry.
Obviously Dale are running hers, which she'll tell you about, um, operating
our own businesses, but we've also worked together with, in a canine
education company, and I think for us, we, we realize that and, and sort
of recognize there are gaps in, in.
Existing education and we really wanted to offer something inno innovative and have
some practical elements to that training.
Um, not just for students, but also for dog owners and dog guardians as well.
So we've kind of got two strands to our, our education.
We very much believe that sort of hands-on in-person sessions are essential, um,
for anyone seeking to work with dogs.
And practical experience allows for a much better understanding
and sort of skill development.
And let's be honest, there's always something new to learn.
Um, just because we've been doing things for a number of years
doesn't mean that we're experts.
You know, I think we need to recognize this.
Um.
And obviously practical sessions really help build up those observation
skills because yeah, we could, we could talk for hours about observation
skills, so I won't bore you with that.
But, you know, we, we believe in focusing and, and trying to foster
a strong relationship between the human and their canines and, and
helping them have a really harmonious and fulfilling relationship.
I guess that's our, our goal.
Um, probably in our own practice and, and working as without worry.
So without worry, canine education was born.
It's our brainchild, isn't it, Dale?
Yes, they baby.
Absolutely.
And it's de dedicated to promoting positive interactions with dogs
through compassion, uh, respect, uh, reward-based training, of course.
Um.
And we, we've had some fantastic feedback from, you know, from our
students, from dog owners talking about, um, our material is, you know,
really, really easy to understand.
And it, what they like about it is that it's sort of real world.
It's not this sort of fluffy thing.
Yes, we need to do theory.
Of course we need to know, you know, some of the theory behind dog behavior.
But for a dog owner, they're.
They wanna know, well, how do I do it?
How does this apply to me?
And it's not some sort of airy fairy thing, oh, well, we'll do this.
You know, we, we give practical help, um, you know, for
solving some of those problems.
Um, and I think a lot of our feedback's been around the, the
quality of the material, um, but also.
Getting them to think outside the box.
You know, it is not just this little bit of theory.
Um, I'm making hand signs.
That's a bit rubbish, isn't it?
Anke: People can watch on YouTube, they can see it.
I love that because I think that's really.
You know, you say always like, as the more you know about the subject, the more
you realize how little you actually know.
It's almost almost like the personal things.
They know everything.
They're kind of giving away.
They haven't got a clue, and I'm gonna come back to that gap you
mentioned like the gaps in the exam.
I'm gonna.
Wanna dig?
We go there.
You can
Lisa: dig into Dale's brain.
She's always good for a good,
Anke: so Dale, we've kind of teased people in enough, like people I know well.
Dale: It's not going to be a surprise, is it with a name like mine and
an accent like mine to realize where in the world I might be?
So I'm in the, I'm in Scotland, uh, the, the West of Scotland.
Um.
Which we were just talking about is the, probably the highest rainfall
in the whole of, uh, the uk.
But you know, we are hard day in Scotland, so we don't let any of that bother us.
Um, but yeah, I've run my own business, uh, is called being canine and I've
run that for quite a number of years.
Um.
And the thing for, for me was that I felt uncomfortable saying
some things to my clients.
So most of my referrals are either through the vet or they
are just people self refer.
Uh, I used to do classes as well, but I don't do so many classes nowadays.
But I used to feel quite uncomfortable saying certain things.
And one of the things that stuck with me was.
Every interaction is a training opportunity.
And I would say that because that's what I'd heard, you know, and I'm
talking about quite a few years ago that this was something that I would've
repeated and then a question myself, and I thought, right, should it be,
I mean, we're saying that, and we're saying reward the good, ignore the bad.
But what I might think is good behavior or might, I might want someone else,
would think was bad and didn't wanna, and then I thought, well, wait a minute.
I, I am now questioning some of these standard sayings.
And one of the things that I felt really uncomfortable with was, um, you know,
that idea that just because you can, doesn't mean to say that you should.
And I, I realized that yeah, we can get dogs to do a
multitude of things, can't we?
You know, get your reward right?
Have a high enough value reward.
If your timing's really, really good, you can get your dog to do
X, Y, and Z as though that was what we should be aiming for.
And the more I thought about that, I thought actually I'm seeing
things and I'm not living it.
What I would do wasn't actually tying in with what people were saying.
That's what you should see when you're a, a dog trainer
or a behaviorist or whatever.
So I just found it really interesting that actually what is being promoted, um,
was a transactional relationship, not.
Uh, a real relationship that's two-way and built on trust and
two-way communication, and it seemed to be all very person centric.
It was very much what I want my dog to do, how I want my dog to respond,
and I thought it doesn't feel right.
And then when there were gaps, so let's be honest, a dog that chooses
not to engage a dog that disengages or a dog that has a gap and isn't doing
anything that's still communication, but actually the old fashioned
view was or will get higher value.
Rewards.
Get your timing to be better.
You need to get the behavior.
And I thought, Hmm, not actually too sure why any of this is of value
and what value is it to our dogs?
They might do it and they might enjoy the reward and they might be quite
greedy dogs and would do anything, you know, for, for a tiny piece of chicken.
But is that really building a good relationship with our dogs?
And so.
When Lisa and I were involved in other education providers, um, we would talk
about this and we would, we would question some of the things that, you know, were
being said over and over and over again.
And then we started to sort of say, but you know, if I'm honest, I
don't really work that way myself.
You know, I work slightly differently.
And then we realized, actually, when you simplify it.
So if you have a simpler attitude to living with dogs, it means that actually
things come together much more easily.
So if a dog really truly believes that you've, they're seen, they've been
heard, you have noticed, you know, any kinda communication, but also that you
know how to respond appropriately, that.
Things don't rely on dogs, don't rely on being paid to do stuff for you.
And that is a, that is a, when dogs feel seen and heard and understood, very
simply it becomes a better relationship.
But it's actually a bit of a revelation to a lot of people
that if you don't coerce them.
Pay them using food or access to other rewards, not just food, but other rewards
that your dog won't do it for you.
And we talked about this often and said, well, supposing we're asking
our dogs to do reasonable things.
We're not asking them to do anything.
You know, that's not a natural thing.
Why wouldn't they do it?
And of course when you think about why they wouldn't do it, there's
may be a very, very good reason in the dog's head for why they
don't want to respond in that way.
When we ask, and once you start thinking like that, you see the
whole relationship very differently.
Mm-hmm.
Anke: I love, I love that.
And I think.
I'm just sort of in my mind, I have, I have a document in my mind when I host,
um, a cla when I invite somebody to host a class on the actual registration form,
I always ask one question, like, what are you curious to learn more about?
Right?
So I, and I then collect these answers in the document.
So I have this long, long, like, you know, and it's interesting how people phrase it.
Right.
And so currently there's one coming up that's about, um, you know,
from barking mad to calm and quiet.
So it's all about barking and every single person is like, how
can I get my dog to stop barking?
Whatever the thing is.
Right.
That really speaks to what you were saying.
Yes.
It's people, there's this like, how can I make my dog do or stop doing something?
And I think these being seen and heard, I think a lot of people probably.
Understand that intellectually they kinda hear that and go, yeah, that makes sense.
And the question is, what do people get wrong when they, because I would imagine
most people think they, they do what it takes to understand, to, to make their dog
feel seen and heard and probably don't.
So what's your experience there?
Are there gaps in what pe between, between what people think they do and what they
act, what the dog probably would think?
Dale: I think, I mean I know Elise will chip in with this as well, but, uh,
I think people are very inconsistent.
So I think they notice when they do things that work well or that they
think is the right, um, approach.
But the problem for dogs is that we change people, you know, change their
response so many times that the, that, that causes stress to lots of dogs.
They don't know which way we're going to be.
You know, today, and I don't mean about punishment or not
punishment, I mean, obviously we advocate, no punishment whatsoever.
Goes, should go without saying, shouldn't it?
But if you, if a dog shows hesitance something and
doesn't want to do something.
What people generally do is they up the, the ante.
They start encouraging the dog.
They try and lure the dog.
They try and coax the dog.
They try and coerce the dog.
Now, one of the things there is that the dog very quickly learns.
I am sure I'm not inside a dog's head, but I am sure that they learn
that they have no say in making a decision about what they either
want to do or don't want to do.
And for some dogs as well, they need.
There's a pause because they need a moment or two to consider it, process
it, but they're not given that time.
They're rushed.
Because the person has asked for them to do something and you have to
respond immediately if you're a dog.
I mean, I don't know if you know, if dogs know that, but that appears to be,
I know, but that appears to be the thing that when you say jump, your dog should
say how high and do it immediately.
Otherwise, they've not learned and they're not, you know, obedient.
We hate that, but I think the inconsistency.
Just proves that people do not really a lot of the time notice
until the dog is refused to do something or they are not getting
the response that they, uh, expect.
And that's when they start using words like stubborn
obstinate, difficult untrainable.
So they use all these words because that.
Describes the fact that the dog didn't comply immediately.
Um, Lisa, have you got a example?
You wanna, I think a lot of it
Lisa: kind of comes down to the old fashioned, traditional obedience.
There was this expectation that, well, I think there's an expectation from
the wider public sometimes as well.
Your dog should be trained, you should be able to get your dog to do X, Y, Z.
So that kind of fills people's heads.
Oh.
You know, they get embarrassed when they're out in public and so on, but there
is this expectation that I've asked my dog to do it, so they should be doing it.
And if they're not doing it, the focus isn't on, well, why
might they not want to do it?
The focus then becomes on, well, they're disobedient, they're they're
stubborn, and all the rest of it, and.
You kind of go, they go down this rabbit hole of, well, you know, as, as Dale said,
I need to find a higher motivating or higher reinforcing treat, or it must be,
um, the environment and, and, and they go through all of this and completely miss.
What the dog is trying to say to them.
And it Yeah,
Anke: that's, that's funny actually, because I've got like two of them,
the, the brown one there and, and Mrs.
Spanish massive.
And you can tell that those breeds who, I mean, the massive, like, well they're
normally, she's like the sofa tiger.
Probably the only one in Spain.
Like most of the time they live with the shape out in the country.
So they're not, they're, they have to be independent thinkers.
Right, and you can tell with her it's hilarious.
You say something and she'll go, Hmm, let me think about that.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Alright.
You know, and then she'll come around and you know, or she goes,
well no, this makes no sense at all so you can go do it yourself.
Right.
So she's definitely not an obedient, I mean, you know, like, not in
the sense of I give a command and she'll also, the thing is I've
never tried, like, I've never like.
So my partner will probably kill me if you heard this episode, but he won't.
So he's, he will quite, you know, sometimes he has this thing, oh,
you know, and all of a sudden expect something from her.
But I'm like, you've never spent a minute to actually teach her that.
Dale: Yeah.
Anke: Because then he'll go all of a sudden like, come here,
like I told you to come here.
Like, have you ever considered that?
She might not have a clue what you want from her.
You know, so there's this expectation that they could just sort of magically
know, because quite often they do seem to be able to read our minds.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I think there is that constant sort of.
Misunderstanding or, or you know, where the expectations don't quite
meet because everybody watches, you know, on television, like,
oh my God, those police docs.
Right.
It's like Uhhuh, you know?
And people will say, oh, I want that level of response and immediate, but do you
have any idea how much time they spend?
Yeah.
You know?
And it's probably also different for different breeds.
Dale: Yeah.
And some dogs.
Won't make the grade when it comes to that type of work.
And that's what people forget is that police dogs and some of these
search and rescue dogs, not all of them, they cannot take any dog.
Train the dog to that level of working.
Uh, though the dogs that don't make the grade are weed out very early on.
Yeah.
So I think that people have this misconception as well about
dog's motivation to do stuff.
So we've either got the ones who the dog should do it because they love us.
The dog should do it because they respect us or they should do it because
I'm the holder of all things good.
You know?
Um, and actually, you know, have we ever considered that
the dog is quite often making.
The right decision for themselves by not complying with what we ask.
So, I mean, I don't do everything that everybody asks of me.
I mean, I'm allowed to say, well, I thank you very much, but I'm not doing that.
Um, and that goes, doesn't it?
That goes with having intelligence supposedly and being able to weigh up.
So we value our dog's intelligence because they should be intelligent
enough to be trained, but then we don't like their intelligence when
they weigh something up and say, well, I don't really want to do that.
Thank you very much.
You know, and I think then you have to start looking at.
What your expectations are and why your expectations are of that type of response.
And that's what I'm going back to, like, when I first started in dog behavior and
dog training all those hundreds of years ago, uh, the, the expectation was this
sort of almost like military type of, I ask for something, I must get it now.
I never ever, you know.
Subscribe to the idea of force or bullying dogs into doing anything.
But I think we have this, um, still this expectation that a dog is
valued and judged on their ability.
To respond quickly to us and what we might want, plus maybe not give us any bother or
annoy us when we don't want to be annoyed.
So these poor dogs have got step up to the mark when it's expected,
go away and be quiet and not bother us when that's expected.
But also on the other hand, be thinkers and clever, but don't think.
If it means that you're not doing what I want you to do.
So we have all of this expectation, and I just think these, we dogs in the
middle must be going, what the heck?
Make your mind up.
Anke: That's so true.
That's so true.
So what was the, what was the um, thing that sparked you guys to go and
say, well actually we should put this.
Project on together because you both have your own business, so you
could just, just kind of meet at conferences and, you know, but what
made you say like, actually we wanna really create that platform together?
Dale: Lisa, I'll let you go.
Lisa: I, I think it is just the more we talk together, we, we do talk a lot.
I mean, you know, we put our hands up to that.
We do talk and, and I think just, just the more we talked and it,
you realize it's not just a.
A problem in, in our area, or it's not just a problem that we've experienced
with our clients or whatever.
You and, and students, you, we realized it's a much, much bigger problem.
And there's, we just felt there was so much we could bring to the table, really.
Um, and, and just try and offer some, I, I don't wanna say it
sounds a bit of a cliche, you know, something, something new.
You know, all, all these different methods and.
And training ideas and all the rest, let's just concentrate on the dog.
You know, it, it, people are looking for this, this new, the best method,
the best way forward, how to train dog.
And that's not what we are about.
We're trying to get people to.
To see the dog in front of them to understand there's much, much
more to, to, to dogs than the, the little bit that they're focusing on.
And, and we, we just kept talking and talking and we're like,
right, well, let's do it then.
Anke: Yes.
So what, what is it that, that you are offering, like to get, I mean, obviously
you're not in the same location, so it wouldn't be the Sunday afternoon
get together in the local park.
Yeah.
So is it training programs or like what is it that you're offering?
Lisa: Yeah, so we've kind of got, as I said, two strands.
We, we've got sort of.
The CPD courses for professionals, for people wanting to learn about
dog behavior in a, in a more, you know, sort of structured way.
And then we've got the, the kind of stream for dog owners and guardians,
which of course we are really passionate about in, you know, in our own.
Um, businesses as well, and we've got different courses, but particularly with
the students, um, or anyone wanting to learn about sort of dog behavior, we offer
an enhanced so you can do the theory, which again, we think is a bit out there.
It's a bit different.
Uh, well, I know it's different.
We know it's different, but we also offer an enhanced version
of that where they, depending where the people live, if they're.
Up in Scotland, they can go to Dale, or if they're down in England, they
can come to me in Lincolnshire.
Um, and that's, that's kind of how we work it.
So there are opportunities for in-person stuff 'cause it, it's invaluable.
Uh, and we've, we've run some practical days.
Different, you know, in each area ourselves about, um, just observation
skills and body language just for anyone to come across along to not
just, you know, dog professionals or somebody who wants to be a.
A dog behaviorist.
And I really do think the practical stuff makes such a difference.
You can't get it anywhere.
It's really difficult to, that's
Anke: interesting.
Yeah.
Because everybody is down say, oh, we're gonna just train online, you
know, and I think the, the, the body language, the observation piece,
it's like everybody says, well, you need to understand body language.
Right?
But like, yeah, but how, like what's piece?
I'm always like, yeah, but what am I missing?
You know?
Yeah.
Because if I.
The, the standard stuff that, you know, we kind of know that the wagon tail
doesn't necessarily uhhuh the dogs happy.
Right.
So what else is there that Yeah.
You know, people may understand one way when it's like a
lot more nuanced than that.
Exactly.
And I, and I don't really feel that there's a lot of, um.
Information.
It's the same old conflicting crap around, you know?
So where it's like, if I'm now there and say, I really wanna
understand body language of my dog, it's not that easy to find.
No.
On the other side of it is part of your offerings that
is really, extremely valuable.
Yeah.
Lisa: And that the important bit is, okay, you've recognized that.
What are you gonna do about it?
How are you going to respond to that?
And that's the bit, oh yeah, my dog's licking his lips.
Oh, he's stressed.
Okay.
We need to look much deeper than that.
You know, a lip, lip here, so, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's, that's kind of what we try and hone in on.
Um, yeah, and it's the
Dale: groups as well.
It's the group in the clusters of things.
So I'm afraid to say that no, that, I mean, I run daycare as well, so I spend
lots of hours every day just watching them and uh, and it's fascinating.
But if you were to look for those individual lip licks or whatever,
you know, whichever one of the things you wanted to look at, yeah, you'll
see them, you'll always see them.
But it's, it's when you, when you see them in clusters or in isolation, or
followed by an action or before an action, they're the things that matter.
It's a bit like if you buy a yellow car and you go out tomorrow and
you will see umpteen yellow cars.
So if you want to see lip licking, you will watch dogs,
and that's all you will see.
But the problem with that is that you're not then seeing what surrounds that
and it, it's fluid and it's sometimes fleeting and it's very easily missed.
And I think that when people should be observing and simply observing,
they're very quickly interpreting and jumping to conclusions.
And then, so really what we should be doing is teaching everyone to.
Be able to recognize these clusters rather than individual things that do not happen,
like a photograph or a nice drawing that says, if you see whale eye, it means this.
And of course it doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't mean anything on its own anyway.
You know, it's when it's combined with something else.
So that's the kind of thing that we, we spend a lot of time with students,
um, going over, you know, let's look at these dogs and let's look at what you
know, what is happening in front of us.
Not let's be clever and tell everyone what we think the dogs are thinking or feeling.
Because we don't know.
Anke: No, you know what?
You were just, the way you explained it, it reminds me of, uh, you
know, like lie detecting stuff.
You know, when there's somebody on LinkedIn I follow and it's almost about
deception detection is his thing, right?
Yes.
And he will exactly say that.
You know, like Wilson, somebody.
Uh, I don't know.
Like their shoulders are tense, you know?
Yeah.
And exactly that.
It's not like you can't just anybody, like I might just have kind of
on my neck in, in the yoga class.
Right, exactly.
So it doesn't mean I'm lying to you just because my shoulders a bit hunched.
So it's not in isolation.
You have to see the, see that context uhhuh, it, it seems
it's exactly the same thing.
Right?
And nobody really goes that deep with that.
Dale: No.
No, and I think that's the really important thing is that
we can jump to conclusions.
It takes us down the wrong path, uh, to the detriment of the
dog, you know, I have to say.
Um, but also to the detriment of the relationship with the
person that lives with the dog.
Uh, so we have to be really, really careful about making, you know, these.
Truth, uh, sweeping statements about dogs, all dogs, you know, when
they do this, it means X, Y, and Z.
And of course that's, you know, that's simply not, not true at all.
Um, and it's a bit like, you know, we are good generally at when we meet
someone, we can feel uncomfortable because they're, the words they're saying,
don't match with their body language.
That can make us feel uncomfortable.
Um, so when I think about that and I think about how good dogs are at reading
body language, how often must they get?
This absolutely contradiction in terms of our behavior and our body language.
Uh, and that must cause them discomfort and make them feel, you know, uh,
maybe a bit out of sorts, who knows?
But I think we have got to not just be observing dog body
language, but we have to be in.
Understand that what we bring into that changes everything for the dog.
So some of some students, you know, might be very stiff in their
behavior because they don't want to do anything wrong around the dog.
So they'll, they'll stay really sure, uh, really still, and you'll see that
the dogs are not sure of them because they're trying so hard to not give any.
Signs of, you know, I'm not uncomfortable, but I'm just gonna stay really still.
And then what happens is the dog looks at them and, and it's like, whoa.
You know, you're acting weird.
Um, and so sometimes we're not aware of what we are doing.
Um, and then so what you can, one thing that you can get is if you're
observing the dog and your dog changes their reaction, you have to think.
Did I do something?
There was that me.
Did I step forward?
Did I loom a wee bit?
Instead of thinking, oh, I've read the dog's body language.
We're part of it.
Anke: Yeah, that makes so much sense.
Actually, my, my very nice, my little kite, he, he used to growl.
I like people, you know, people always said to me, he is like, you know, that
dog wouldn't have done well with anybody.
Because he would like his, when he was kind of excited to see me, he'd
growl, like growling was his thing.
Like that's what he'd do.
And if you go by the buy the book, so all the dog growls, whatever, like, not for
this one, you know, like he never heard a fly, he never even stole a sandwich
like he was, you know, but when he gets excited, he could pull his teeth out
and, and give you that growl, you know?
Yeah.
And, and he's like little and you know, that was just his way of.
That's how emotion came out for him, you know, but you, you'd always have
to, and now on top of it, he was black, you know, it was like, yeah.
So people were always scared of him.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So, and you always have to explain like, no, he's just like very
sensitive and you just don't look at him like, just leave him alone.
Like, don't try and be nice to him, you know, just leave him alone.
But it was like a classic case.
So I think like somebody who's just.
Understands.
Oh, dog growling means they're about to bite you.
Well, they would've always felt threatened by him.
Yeah.
You know?
Exactly.
When he was just kind of like, oh my God, like nerves are ramping up.
Not quite sure here what's going on.
You know, he was quite, yeah.
Sort of this scatter cat and little like, you know, so it's, and it's
Dale: this idea that everything always escalates, you
Anke: know?
Dale: You know, a growl always leads to a bite.
You know, it's this escalation that they go up and, and you know, and
that's not true either, you know?
No, not with that one.
So it not always true.
Never.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So, and I think that's the, the, the main thing for us is, um, actually, you know,
asking people to set aside all of those preconceived notions and start to question
and start to really see what's going on.
Uh, that's quite difficult.
And Lisa and I both had students who have admitted.
That they've really found it very, very challenging to begin with
because you're having to really change, probably, you know, the way
that you believed you were working correctly, which is absolutely fine.
This is about enhancing your knowledge.
It's not about saying everything you learned before is.
You know, out the window.
It's about saying, yeah, you've learned all that, but let's move on now.
Not, let's not get stuck there just doing the same old, same old.
Let's move it along and make things even better.
Uh, and I think that that's what we've done individually in our businesses.
So it was natural, you know, wasn't it really to try and bring that together
and, and do it, you know, do it together.
Um, we still.
Do our separate things and we do things together and I think that
keeps everything fresh and it keeps it interesting, you know, rather
than for our students as well.
It isn't just, you know, we are, we are on one stream and
we, you know, we stick to that.
Anke: Yeah.
Love it.
I think
Lisa: that's something else.
Sorry.
Something else.
I'm sorry.
Didn't wanna cut you off.
That's alright.
It's just something I just thought of there.
What is good practice when you are practicing?
Any skills, any, any job role, not just sort of dog behavior or dog training
is actually getting feedback as well.
So Dale and I are so fortunate that we've got each other, you know?
Yeah.
And, and, and it's an important part of, of our work.
We, well, we've always done it this way, you know, people often to say, oh yeah.
So I, I look for, for somebody who, who's been doing it for years.
Yeah.
Well, they might have been doing it wrong for years, you know, that's no guarantee.
And I think it.
It's, it's trying to get students to look at and, and this critical,
you know, looking at yourselves and going, how was that?
Videoing yourself.
See how you're, how you're doing, what you are doing.
Oh my goodness.
And we all have habits.
We all have little things that we do.
So it's just, just trying to get students to think about, you know, these things
as well, as well as dog owners and what they're doing with their dogs.
For the students as well.
Anke: Yeah.
I'll shut that
Lisa: now.
Anke: Love that.
Love that.
No.
So where can people go and find out about your offerings?
About what you do together?
What?
What you do separately?
Where can people go find you?
Lisa: Okay.
Um, so we've got, without worry, canine education.co
uk, uh, website.
So, and you'll see on there there's CPD courses that are, you
know, for professionals or those who want to go down that line.
And we've also got them for, for you and your dog, for dog owners and guardians.
So there's kind of two streams on there.
Um, so yeah, have a look through the website and see, see what you fancy.
And then we've got our own, and we're still,
Dale: we're still on Facebook as well.
Yes.
So we, we do put a lot of stuff on there.
Um, so we try and we try and kinda keep everything up to date as best we
can, but yeah, you can find us with without worry or you can find, you know,
us individually even just search our names on, you know, were easily found.
Anke: Awesome.
Well, and obviously the links go straight below the, uh, podcast or videos.
So I'm gonna make sure you guys are easy to find.
So thank you so much for coming.
It's been an absolute delight.
That's
Lisa: been a pleasure.
Thank you.
Pleasure chatting with you.
Thank you.
Anke: Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so
other dog lovers can find the show.
If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs.
com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal
stories to warm your dog loving heart.
And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview,
I'd love an introduction.
Email me at Anke.
That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.