WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.870 --> 00:00:06.600 Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions. 00:00:07.020 --> 00:00:07.860 Let's dive in. 00:00:10.058 --> 00:00:13.928 Paul Spencer: So I was talking with a friend of mine, um, about the morality of 00:00:13.928 --> 00:00:23.378 business and really the conversation was how often do we make financial decisions, 00:00:24.188 --> 00:00:33.698 um, p and l decisions, economic decisions over the moral, um, side decision 00:00:33.698 --> 00:00:36.008 making or maybe even the humanity. 00:00:36.698 --> 00:00:37.658 Decision making. 00:00:38.048 --> 00:00:44.528 So, um, the example that he was describing was more of letting people go, right? 00:00:44.528 --> 00:00:49.568 Making an economic decision versus, uh, basically a humanity decision. 00:00:50.018 --> 00:00:52.238 And so I thought it was an interesting conversation. 00:00:52.268 --> 00:00:58.508 Um, a lot of it resonates with me when I think about Deming and in 00:00:58.508 --> 00:01:05.738 his 'cause he wrote out of crisis in 82, I believe, or 83, probably 83. 00:01:06.698 --> 00:01:13.658 And in there's got, he's got the seven deadly sins, and one of those sins is 00:01:13.658 --> 00:01:15.283 the emphasis on short term profits. 00:01:17.438 --> 00:01:21.818 He talks about how, um, that if we're, and really he's thinking 00:01:21.818 --> 00:01:25.538 of more of a corporate side, so thinking about shareholders and, 00:01:25.898 --> 00:01:30.008 and dividends and bankers, and those are the kinds of words that he uses. 00:01:30.458 --> 00:01:35.018 Um, but his, one of the deadly sins that he talks about is the emphasis 00:01:35.018 --> 00:01:37.388 of short-term profits, right? 00:01:37.898 --> 00:01:41.678 Is um, is something that we. 00:01:42.683 --> 00:01:44.363 Really focus on a lot. 00:01:44.693 --> 00:01:49.883 And at the detriment of the long term vision, the long what he calls 00:01:50.123 --> 00:01:54.593 the, the, um, the constancy of purpose, that's what he calls it. 00:01:54.803 --> 00:01:59.183 So that's in his 14 points is constancy of purpose. 00:01:59.633 --> 00:02:04.223 Um, and what that means essentially is having a vision and knowing 00:02:05.333 --> 00:02:08.513 out in front of you years. 00:02:09.203 --> 00:02:14.363 And an aim, and where am I going and why am I doing this? 00:02:14.453 --> 00:02:18.203 And that is what gets you to a destination, right? 00:02:18.412 --> 00:02:23.033 And so when you have that constancy constancy of purpose, that helps 00:02:23.033 --> 00:02:24.653 frame all your decision making. 00:02:25.882 --> 00:02:30.472 So anyway, one of the deadly sins, again, as I already said, the emphasis of short 00:02:30.472 --> 00:02:36.202 term profits means that now we're starting to look at, uh, what's the revenue 00:02:36.202 --> 00:02:38.123 projections for the end of the month. 00:02:38.152 --> 00:02:43.552 And, uh, here it is on the 27th, what are we gonna do in the next three days 00:02:43.822 --> 00:02:48.533 in order to shore up our monthly numbers and what is it that we're gonna be 00:02:48.533 --> 00:02:51.982 doing this quarter so that when we, um. 00:02:52.313 --> 00:02:57.922 Release our, uh, our earnings report that we'll get a good, uh, shareholder 00:02:58.162 --> 00:03:02.123 announcement or what are we gonna do for our dividends and right. 00:03:02.212 --> 00:03:05.992 And all of those things, if we take the timeline goes shorter 00:03:05.992 --> 00:03:06.922 and shorter and shorter. 00:03:07.072 --> 00:03:10.102 And so now we're just looking right in front of us, right in 00:03:10.102 --> 00:03:11.392 front of us, right in front of us. 00:03:11.392 --> 00:03:15.593 And his whole point is that, um, if you get into that mode. 00:03:16.463 --> 00:03:20.423 Then you get blindsided about all the things that are coming at you 00:03:20.692 --> 00:03:23.572 because you don't have constancy of purpose, you don't have a vision, and 00:03:23.572 --> 00:03:24.683 you don't know where you're going. 00:03:25.162 --> 00:03:27.683 So anyway, I thought that was interesting. 00:03:27.683 --> 00:03:32.363 The, uh, thinking for me is that we haven't really talked a lot about demming. 00:03:32.933 --> 00:03:33.953 Ha that's a joke. 00:03:34.192 --> 00:03:37.313 I know you guys, uh, you hear me talk about dimming all the 00:03:37.313 --> 00:03:41.662 time and, um, I would say that. 00:03:42.368 --> 00:03:48.128 There's really maybe only one or two of you that are really good 00:03:48.547 --> 00:03:54.968 students of Deming that you really can go inside and out of, um, all 00:03:54.968 --> 00:03:57.128 the different philosophies of Deming. 00:03:57.517 --> 00:04:02.558 Why, why those things are in place, what that means for you and how you 00:04:02.558 --> 00:04:06.547 actually wanna think and manage and govern your, your, your organization. 00:04:06.968 --> 00:04:09.428 The rest of you tend to hear me say it. 00:04:10.298 --> 00:04:12.458 Um, I speak about it. 00:04:12.668 --> 00:04:18.158 I, uh, put it in terms, maybe you could say layman's terms and terms that you 00:04:18.158 --> 00:04:23.438 can understand, but I guarantee you haven't dug up any demming and you 00:04:23.438 --> 00:04:27.188 haven't looked into it any further than maybe, maybe what Paul has told you. 00:04:27.788 --> 00:04:35.648 And, uh, you know, for me, um, I started, uh, I was trying to think of 00:04:35.648 --> 00:04:38.078 when I started using Deming explicitly. 00:04:38.078 --> 00:04:38.708 It's probably. 00:04:39.098 --> 00:04:46.568 In 2014 ish, somewhere in there, um, when I went to my first, uh, 00:04:46.568 --> 00:04:51.338 two day seminar, uh, for Deming seminar up in Dayton at at Aileron. 00:04:51.968 --> 00:04:55.478 And, uh, we were just still fairly new in PO yet. 00:04:56.198 --> 00:04:59.078 Um, and really even maybe it kind of, maybe I'll give you a 00:04:59.078 --> 00:05:00.458 little bit of a life story here. 00:05:00.758 --> 00:05:01.748 So in. 00:05:03.082 --> 00:05:07.403 And with the Agile manifesto with software development, that was 00:05:07.403 --> 00:05:11.543 all derived up, I think, I believe they were up in Detroit, maybe. 00:05:12.173 --> 00:05:16.283 Um, and it was a, it was a set of software developers who were 00:05:16.283 --> 00:05:21.113 working in, um, car manufacturing and they had taken some of these. 00:05:21.908 --> 00:05:25.808 Lean manufacturing principles and applied them to software development 00:05:26.258 --> 00:05:28.448 and that's called the Agile Manifesto. 00:05:28.508 --> 00:05:31.988 And that's really where a lot of the agile development came from. 00:05:31.988 --> 00:05:34.208 And that was around 2000. 00:05:34.898 --> 00:05:41.048 Um, and that was early on in my career, and I was blessed to be able to join 00:05:41.048 --> 00:05:47.828 a team in 2003 that really was really invested in all these ways of thinking 00:05:47.828 --> 00:05:50.558 and really a philosophy and a mindset. 00:05:51.083 --> 00:05:54.083 Um, about how we could build software in a different way. 00:05:54.533 --> 00:05:59.723 And really it was just, it was lean, it was lean manufacturing and really 00:05:59.723 --> 00:06:03.833 the roots of it, which I didn't know at the time, were all rooted in Deming. 00:06:04.373 --> 00:06:08.453 And so we had built, um, lots of different enterprise businesses. 00:06:09.683 --> 00:06:10.493 Not businesses. 00:06:10.613 --> 00:06:15.412 Um, a lot of enterprise software systems projects based on 00:06:15.412 --> 00:06:17.092 that philosophy with Agile. 00:06:17.332 --> 00:06:18.412 Did a lot of coaching. 00:06:18.412 --> 00:06:21.953 I did a lot of executive coaching, building different development 00:06:21.953 --> 00:06:25.852 teams for, I don't know, probably about 10 years, about doing that. 00:06:26.332 --> 00:06:32.183 And then we founded Pom yet around this whole concept of, um, teams 00:06:32.183 --> 00:06:38.363 as a service, which in about 2012 or 13 in there was still, um. 00:06:39.383 --> 00:06:45.983 Pretty novel idea in that, um, at that time it was very rare 00:06:45.983 --> 00:06:52.583 to allow a consulting group or a consultant who's a develop on your 00:06:52.583 --> 00:06:55.613 development team to not be on site. 00:06:56.273 --> 00:07:00.743 So even if you provided two or three developers, uh, to help you 00:07:00.803 --> 00:07:04.098 with, uh, some kind of software, uh, initiative that you have. 00:07:04.673 --> 00:07:06.293 They would be on site, typically. 00:07:06.683 --> 00:07:12.743 And so what we did is we created a teams as a service and we formed our own teams. 00:07:13.403 --> 00:07:15.143 They lived in our office. 00:07:15.353 --> 00:07:20.332 We had our own philosophy, which is where the harmonics way concepts come from. 00:07:20.783 --> 00:07:25.883 Um, we had our own way of managing our, our people, our, our software systems, 00:07:25.883 --> 00:07:29.873 how we integrated, how we built software, craftsmanship, all those things. 00:07:29.873 --> 00:07:31.133 All came out of all of that. 00:07:31.733 --> 00:07:32.152 Um. 00:07:33.068 --> 00:07:37.568 A lot of the thinking around it was from agile development. 00:07:37.568 --> 00:07:43.298 Now we were, I would say at that time, very well versed in Agile and the way it 00:07:43.298 --> 00:07:48.368 works and sometimes the way it didn't, we knew the fault, uh, the failure modes, the 00:07:48.368 --> 00:07:50.048 fault lines that were involved with that. 00:07:50.318 --> 00:07:54.428 And so we had kinda morphed into, um, our own ideal. 00:07:54.908 --> 00:07:57.098 Way of, of managing and doing it. 00:07:57.098 --> 00:08:03.218 So it wasn't, uh, scrum and it wasn't purely, uh, agile framework. 00:08:03.278 --> 00:08:06.008 Uh, there was scale and all these different crazy things 00:08:06.008 --> 00:08:07.088 that have come out of all that. 00:08:07.448 --> 00:08:11.438 Um, but we just did it in a way that just held more to the Agile manifesto 00:08:11.438 --> 00:08:15.218 and to be able to iterate and get feedback loops and have high quality. 00:08:15.668 --> 00:08:20.828 So anyway, uh, that's kind of my roundabout way is, um, Stacy. 00:08:21.682 --> 00:08:26.092 Who was our president at the time suggested that I go to a Deming seminar. 00:08:26.873 --> 00:08:30.772 Um, and that was around that 2014 15 timeframe. 00:08:31.313 --> 00:08:33.563 And, um, when I went. 00:08:34.523 --> 00:08:41.363 Um, in my head I was thinking, how can I learn more about lean manufacturing? 00:08:41.783 --> 00:08:44.693 And at that point I had studied a lot of lean manufacturing. 00:08:44.693 --> 00:08:49.643 I love going outside of, uh, at that time the software industry. 00:08:50.323 --> 00:08:54.628 Going into more physical things, which is what manufacturing is, and really 00:08:54.628 --> 00:08:58.198 taking a lot of those principles and bringing 'em back into what we were doing. 00:08:58.468 --> 00:09:00.118 I, I, to me, that's really fun. 00:09:00.598 --> 00:09:03.748 Um, and I love learning as, as you guys know, and reading. 00:09:03.748 --> 00:09:05.908 And so that's really what I was thinking about. 00:09:05.908 --> 00:09:10.078 The Deming seminar is, oh, another deep dive in the lean manufacturing 00:09:10.198 --> 00:09:15.358 and how could we, how could I think about other aspects of further 00:09:15.358 --> 00:09:17.008 improving our development processes? 00:09:18.563 --> 00:09:23.363 Um, what I didn't know is by the time I went through that two and a half days, 00:09:23.363 --> 00:09:28.463 so really three days is I had notes and notes and notes and notes, all kinds of 00:09:28.463 --> 00:09:35.543 ideas and pages on how to actually run PO yet, so not as just the development team 00:09:35.543 --> 00:09:39.383 and how we're gonna deliver software, but how we're gonna run the company. 00:09:40.058 --> 00:09:41.018 Using Deming. 00:09:41.618 --> 00:09:45.548 Um, and I had never really even considered that before. 00:09:45.548 --> 00:09:49.808 I'd never even thought of, oh, you, we could do the whole sales side, we could 00:09:49.808 --> 00:09:56.408 do the accounting side, we could do the HR side, um, using the Deming philosophy. 00:09:57.008 --> 00:10:00.968 And so, uh, that led to me coming back and obviously. 00:10:01.643 --> 00:10:04.823 I enjoy learning and thinking about these things. 00:10:04.823 --> 00:10:08.813 So I'm presenting to the, to our company about all the ideas that 00:10:08.813 --> 00:10:12.533 I have and what I learned and what we're gonna do differently and letting 00:10:12.533 --> 00:10:14.423 them explore some of those things. 00:10:14.873 --> 00:10:20.963 Um, and so what ended up happening is we built ette. 00:10:22.553 --> 00:10:26.753 Uh, through the Deming philosophy, and we were really good at it. 00:10:26.813 --> 00:10:31.103 And, uh, we were really different and unique, uh, than the other, 00:10:31.163 --> 00:10:34.433 uh, software, um, consultancies. 00:10:34.883 --> 00:10:39.203 Uh, we had a different approach to it and we had really awesome people because, 00:10:39.533 --> 00:10:42.053 uh, again, I think it was our nature. 00:10:43.013 --> 00:10:45.293 It was our nature to, to build that out. 00:10:45.293 --> 00:10:48.233 But I think with the framework of what Deming gave us. 00:10:48.773 --> 00:10:51.023 We had some things to hang him onto. 00:10:51.293 --> 00:10:57.503 And really, if, looking back on it, the, the harmonic's way, um, which wasn't Carl 00:10:57.623 --> 00:11:02.453 Harmonic's way at the time, it was just, uh, ideas and principles that Rob had came 00:11:02.453 --> 00:11:05.123 up with, um, for us to build our culture. 00:11:06.278 --> 00:11:07.988 They're very Deming focused. 00:11:08.168 --> 00:11:09.938 We didn't know they were Deming focused. 00:11:10.148 --> 00:11:12.338 They weren't derived from Deming in any way. 00:11:12.758 --> 00:11:18.068 Um, but they are tied in very, very closely to what the, the values 00:11:18.068 --> 00:11:19.298 and principles that Deming had. 00:11:19.568 --> 00:11:21.488 So we had a natural fit for all of it. 00:11:21.638 --> 00:11:26.528 Um, and so it just seemed to, to just easily mesh with us. 00:11:26.708 --> 00:11:33.398 Um, so, and the reason why I'm telling you this is because, uh, the whole 00:11:33.398 --> 00:11:35.498 idea of what Deming is all about. 00:11:36.173 --> 00:11:40.523 Um, if you can really understand what he's getting at, it's 00:11:40.523 --> 00:11:42.083 a very powerful framework. 00:11:42.083 --> 00:11:45.713 Very concise, but it fits in so many different ways. 00:11:46.253 --> 00:11:50.033 And really, he started putting these things, these things 00:11:50.033 --> 00:11:51.563 together back in the fifties. 00:11:51.803 --> 00:11:53.693 So it's an old framework. 00:11:53.993 --> 00:11:56.633 He wrote the book in the early eighties, right? 00:11:57.398 --> 00:11:58.988 This thing has been around forever. 00:11:59.648 --> 00:12:05.618 Um, but very few of you are aware of it or know of it, or you may have the bias that 00:12:05.618 --> 00:12:07.748 it's a manufacturing thing and it is not. 00:12:08.258 --> 00:12:11.798 It obviously lives in manufacturing, but uh, it is not 00:12:11.888 --> 00:12:13.718 solely a manufacturing thing. 00:12:13.958 --> 00:12:17.948 So, fast forward, um, several years probably in. 00:12:18.578 --> 00:12:21.998 Somewhere in 17, 18 or 19, somewhere in there. 00:12:22.478 --> 00:12:27.788 Um, I went back to, to my friend Kelly Allen, who was, um, at the 00:12:27.788 --> 00:12:31.238 time, he was leading those seminars for the, for the Deming Institute. 00:12:31.238 --> 00:12:38.048 And I asked him if I could join, um, being a facilitator, um, 00:12:38.078 --> 00:12:39.648 because I told him at the time that. 00:12:40.643 --> 00:12:46.043 Um, I've taken everything that I think I know about Demming and 00:12:46.043 --> 00:12:48.023 applied it to running Pom yet. 00:12:48.533 --> 00:12:54.413 Um, and that's as far as I can go with it, but I don't know if I did it right. 00:12:55.463 --> 00:12:57.263 I don't know what I don't know. 00:12:57.683 --> 00:13:02.813 And the one thing I do know is that if I teach. 00:13:03.728 --> 00:13:05.318 Then I will learn more, right? 00:13:05.438 --> 00:13:08.618 Just by the ne necessity of having to explain it to somebody 00:13:09.068 --> 00:13:10.748 and them asking good questions. 00:13:11.108 --> 00:13:16.058 And then now I have to explain why that is the way that is or why the philosophy 00:13:16.058 --> 00:13:18.158 is that way, or maybe not, I don't know. 00:13:18.338 --> 00:13:25.208 Um, so, uh, and Kelly's a good friend of mine and, uh, now many years later, and 00:13:25.208 --> 00:13:29.378 at the time we had stayed in touch through the first seminar that I had gone to. 00:13:29.948 --> 00:13:33.068 Um, and it, and it's such a beautiful thing. 00:13:33.068 --> 00:13:35.708 He said, he didn't really ask any questions. 00:13:36.038 --> 00:13:38.018 He said, why don't you come to the next seminar? 00:13:38.798 --> 00:13:40.358 Um, and then we'll see what we can do. 00:13:40.358 --> 00:13:42.398 So I, I joined as a, a participant. 00:13:42.398 --> 00:13:44.828 That was the second time I, I've been to the seminar. 00:13:45.428 --> 00:13:50.048 Um, again, learned more things just by doing that. 00:13:50.558 --> 00:13:57.428 Um, and then I got to go on a nice roller coaster ride with Kelly and we traveled. 00:13:57.433 --> 00:13:57.533 Um. 00:13:58.583 --> 00:14:03.323 Uh, did some private seminars, um, did lots of projects together. 00:14:03.413 --> 00:14:04.853 Um, still good friends. 00:14:05.483 --> 00:14:10.913 Um, and I think that that's the reason why I'm telling you all this is because, um, 00:14:11.093 --> 00:14:15.953 Deming is just not a buzzword for me, and I don't think, uh, you're giving yourself 00:14:15.953 --> 00:14:21.983 a bit of a disservice to think it's just a Paul thing or it's just a buzzword that 00:14:22.163 --> 00:14:23.843 you don't really need to think about. 00:14:23.933 --> 00:14:25.408 Um, you'll just let Paul kind of. 00:14:26.333 --> 00:14:30.863 Uh, guide you along, which is obviously why I'm here and why I work with you. 00:14:31.343 --> 00:14:36.683 Um, but the more you can jump into some of the Deming aspects, the better off 00:14:36.683 --> 00:14:40.853 you'll be because you'll be able to see the world, the whole world around 00:14:40.853 --> 00:14:43.553 you, um, in a completely different way. 00:14:44.123 --> 00:14:47.363 Um, so anyway, kind of just go back to the beginning. 00:14:47.633 --> 00:14:50.003 So when my, uh, when we're, when I'm having this 00:14:50.003 --> 00:14:52.163 conversation with my buddy, um. 00:14:52.853 --> 00:14:55.853 And he's talking about the, that moral compass and those things. 00:14:56.333 --> 00:15:01.013 And uh, I think it just naturally goes back to Deming for me is like, 00:15:01.043 --> 00:15:02.033 well, Deming talked about that. 00:15:02.633 --> 00:15:04.733 With the emphasis on short term profits. 00:15:04.913 --> 00:15:09.533 He talked about that in his, uh, system of profound knowledge around 00:15:09.593 --> 00:15:14.123 psychology, which is, uh, yes, we have processes and systems and, 00:15:14.483 --> 00:15:19.463 and, um, understanding variation within, uh, the outputs that we have. 00:15:19.673 --> 00:15:26.153 But we have humans in the system, and we have to understand our humanity, right? 00:15:26.183 --> 00:15:28.373 The psychology of how people operate. 00:15:29.318 --> 00:15:34.478 How they think, what their behaviors are, what their biases might be in or, because 00:15:34.478 --> 00:15:37.088 that's another input into the system. 00:15:37.598 --> 00:15:42.428 And I think it's just so cool that he's put all that together because 00:15:42.518 --> 00:15:48.338 when you start to put, um, uh, frame of reference through psychology. 00:15:49.538 --> 00:15:54.428 Appreciation of a system and you say, what's the moral side? 00:15:54.488 --> 00:15:57.758 What's the economic side versus the Hu humanity side? 00:15:58.058 --> 00:16:00.278 Deming gives you a framework to run through that. 00:16:00.668 --> 00:16:04.388 Now that doesn't make mean, and it's black and white and oh, the answers 00:16:04.388 --> 00:16:08.918 are right there, but it gives you a way to kinda run through, um, some 00:16:08.918 --> 00:16:10.298 of the decisions that you may have. 00:16:10.718 --> 00:16:15.248 Um, one other thing too that I think is very interesting is. 00:16:15.923 --> 00:16:21.113 Um, Deming has these 14 points and then he is got the seven deadly 00:16:21.113 --> 00:16:25.763 sins and then he is got SOPK, which is system of profound knowledge. 00:16:26.243 --> 00:16:27.683 Um, and I'm gonna repeat these. 00:16:27.953 --> 00:16:31.553 The system of profound knowledge is appreciation for a system, which 00:16:31.553 --> 00:16:36.383 we all know 'cause we've talked about it a million times, is how our 00:16:36.383 --> 00:16:41.033 processes are visible and transparent and how they connect, right? 00:16:41.243 --> 00:16:43.373 And then knowledge of variation. 00:16:43.778 --> 00:16:47.888 There's only four aspects to the, to the SOPK appreciation for a 00:16:47.888 --> 00:16:50.048 system knowledge of variation. 00:16:50.048 --> 00:16:56.588 We have to know that you can't get 25, 25, 25, 25, 25 every time. 00:16:56.798 --> 00:17:00.848 You'll get 23, you'll get 50, you'll get 18, right? 00:17:00.908 --> 00:17:02.918 And you have a natural variation. 00:17:02.918 --> 00:17:04.088 It'll go up and down. 00:17:04.298 --> 00:17:07.538 It's super important to have an understanding of that theory 00:17:07.538 --> 00:17:10.897 of knowledge is, uh, like what we talk about all the time. 00:17:11.677 --> 00:17:12.968 How do we experiment with that? 00:17:13.988 --> 00:17:18.698 In in Deming's world, he would say, what's A-P-D-S-A plan, do study act. 00:17:19.358 --> 00:17:23.978 What's the PDSA that we can run to learn to improve the system? 00:17:24.637 --> 00:17:28.088 And in my terminology, I say, let's experiment with that 00:17:28.088 --> 00:17:29.228 and how can we experiment? 00:17:29.648 --> 00:17:32.768 The last one is the psychology, which I just explained. 00:17:32.948 --> 00:17:34.838 So those four basic tenants. 00:17:35.378 --> 00:17:39.428 Um, you can hang every decision that you make across, uh, within 00:17:39.428 --> 00:17:41.828 your, within your, um, organization. 00:17:42.187 --> 00:17:47.588 Um, but you can also get a richness around, um, the confidence that you 00:17:47.588 --> 00:17:51.937 have around being okay with being wrong. 00:17:52.808 --> 00:17:55.058 Why, why, why is it okay to be wrong? 00:17:55.298 --> 00:17:58.178 Because we have a theory of knowledge and the theory of 00:17:58.178 --> 00:18:00.908 knowledge states that you don't know. 00:18:01.838 --> 00:18:06.248 It's just a theory now, you may be able to say, oh, um, I'll be 00:18:06.248 --> 00:18:09.698 able to get a million dollars this year, uh, more than last year. 00:18:09.968 --> 00:18:11.738 Okay, well, what's the percentage of that? 00:18:11.768 --> 00:18:14.048 Well, that's a 50% increase from last year. 00:18:14.078 --> 00:18:14.468 Okay. 00:18:14.798 --> 00:18:16.658 What's your theory that that'll work? 00:18:17.018 --> 00:18:17.288 Right. 00:18:17.468 --> 00:18:21.608 It's just a theory until you go prove it tomorrow and the next day and next 00:18:21.608 --> 00:18:25.298 week and the next week, uh, it's still just a theory and you have to be able 00:18:25.298 --> 00:18:29.978 to adjust and run those experiments in order to achieve your aim in that case. 00:18:30.893 --> 00:18:34.193 Um, so anyway, I thought that was an interesting topic. 00:18:34.583 --> 00:18:40.853 Um, there's so many different levels with Deming, um, 00:18:42.863 --> 00:18:48.263 that I wanna encourage you to go out and, uh, maybe explore 00:18:48.263 --> 00:18:49.733 some of the Deming website. 00:18:50.333 --> 00:18:54.383 Um, grab a Deming book and read it. 00:18:55.253 --> 00:18:57.113 Actually read it, you might enjoy it. 00:18:58.763 --> 00:19:02.723 Um, and you know, there's another thing in here too, which is, um, 00:19:02.753 --> 00:19:06.983 because I work closely with the Deming Institute, um, they have an 00:19:06.983 --> 00:19:09.023 awesome portal called Deming Next. 00:19:09.443 --> 00:19:13.673 And there's so many different training modules, different, um, 00:19:13.673 --> 00:19:18.473 it's a, it's an LMS system that, um, there's so many cool little things 00:19:18.473 --> 00:19:19.883 in there that you can do continuous. 00:19:20.198 --> 00:19:25.598 Training, um, with your staff and your executive teams. 00:19:25.928 --> 00:19:29.648 And if you're looking for something to have access to that, then just 00:19:29.648 --> 00:19:33.458 send me a note and, um, and we can get those things set up for you. 00:19:33.938 --> 00:19:38.378 Um, but anyway, uh, these things exist out there. 00:19:39.113 --> 00:19:42.803 Meaning Deming has answers to a lot of the questions you may have 00:19:42.923 --> 00:19:46.763 specifically around this one, which was what's the moral decision? 00:19:47.243 --> 00:19:51.293 And, uh, there's never gonna be, well, this is the moral decision. 00:19:51.293 --> 00:19:54.983 There's a, there's a huge variation around that, right? 00:19:55.463 --> 00:20:00.083 Um, but if you have a framework in place, it helps you to have more confidence in 00:20:00.083 --> 00:20:01.373 the types of things that you're up to. 00:20:01.673 --> 00:20:03.353 And plus, why wouldn't you do it? 00:20:03.353 --> 00:20:04.043 It's a lot of fun.