Matt Abrahams: Communication is critical to success in your
professional and personal lives.
This idea has served as the guiding principle of our
show ever since we started.
And today, we are thrilled to be celebrating our 300th episode
with a special Ask Matt Anything.
My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach Strategic Communication at
Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
It's hard to believe that this is our 300th episode.
I want to start by thanking each and every one of you for
listening and viewing our show.
We work really hard to bring you great content through our show and social
media, and we truly appreciate your input in helping us spread the word.
For this episode, we wanted to hear from you and help with your
communication issues and challenges.
We recorded this live a few weeks back.
I start with a quick lesson about a structure I find
myself using more and more.
And then we move into questions from listeners around the globe.
And as a special treat, I begin with questions from some of our amazing
team that help bring you the show.
So without further ado, let's get started.
So welcome.
This is our three hundredth episode.
We are excited that you are here, and we are thrilled that you take the time
to listen to Think Fast, Talk Smart.
Before I get started taking your questions, I would love to share
a new favorite structure of mine.
You are all very familiar with the fact that I love structure.
Structure is nothing more than a logical way of putting your points forward.
We have all heard of my favorite structure, three questions.
What?
So what?
Now what?
This structure is very useful for lots of situations.
You can use it when you're giving feedback, when you're giving an update,
when you're introducing yourself.
This structure is very useful for educating and informing.
A new structure that I find myself relying on a lot as I have to
articulate a point of view or defend a position is one I learned from
a lawyer friend of mine, PREP.
Point, reason, example, point.
This is a great structure to use when you have to put forth an
idea, when you have to support something that you're advocating for.
It works very simply.
You make a point, you give a rationale or reason supporting that
point, give a concrete example.
We tend to remember concrete examples far better than high level information.
And then we return to the point.
So point, reason, example, point.
Let me share with you an example that in the classes I teach at Stanford's
Business School we like to use as a way of getting practice with this.
And I assign my students to defend one side of this argument.
So some are for it and some are against it.
So the issue is, is a burrito sushi?
So how would you support that?
If you wanted to support it, you might use PREP.
So let's walk through this one part at a time.
The point is, a burrito is technically a type of sushi.
The reason, both are fundamentally seasoned rice fillings tight packly
together in an edible cylindrical wrapper.
An example, a burrito wraps meat and rice in a tortilla, while sushi is
fish and rice wrapped in seaweed.
So I would then restate my point.
Thus, a burrito is technically a type of sushi.
And in so doing, I have made a clear, concise point.
So I challenge each of you to think about how you could use PREP.
I'm going to give all of you a little homework.
The other issue that we debate in my class is, is soup cereal?
How would you defend that if you were to use PREP?
Point, reason, example, point.
So now you have another structure to add to your toolkit of structures.
Goes right next to what, so what, now what?
So let's get into some of your questions and challenges that
you have in your communication.
But before I take time to take your questions, I want to introduce
you to a few members of our team.
This is our 300th episode, and we work really hard to bring you the best
in careers and communication advice.
And while you get to see and hear me, there is an amazing team behind the
scenes that brings this all to you.
So I thought it would be really fun to start our Q&A with some Q&A from the team.
So it is my honor and privilege to invite to the screen Katherine Reed.
Kat is our executive producer and the brains behind all
of what you hear and see.
Kat, how are you doing?
Katherine Reed: I'm good.
How are you, Matt?
Matt Abrahams: I'm doing great.
I love these live events.
You have a question?
I'd love to hear your question.
Katherine Reed: Yes.
Very glad to be with you on this special occasion, and thank you
to all that were able to join.
So my question is about word recall.
I find for myself there are many times during conversations or discussions
when I know that there's a specific word that I want to use, but I can't
quite seem to retrieve it in the moment.
Sometimes I'll pause, and I'll give myself some grace and say something
like, "What's the word I'm looking for?" to buy myself a little time.
So my question is, do you have advice for improving word recall in those moments or
strategies for retrieving the right word when it just feels like it's out of reach?
Matt Abrahams: Well, I appreciate that question.
And as somebody who's getting older, retrieval of information of any
kind is, is getting challenging.
The first thing I would suggest, Kat, is that as you think about
this, there really is no right word.
There are certainly better words than others.
So sometimes what makes it hard to retrieve a word is you have this word
in mind, and then you say, "I want to say that right word," and then
that puts added pressure to yourself.
So I really like the fact that you take a pause, take a beat, take
perhaps a deep breath in that moment.
And when you take the pressure off of yourself of saying the right word,
actually it might come more easily.
The first thing is to not make it harder on yourself by
adding to your anxiety level.
The next piece has to do with practice, the way we practice.
Now, we don't want to memorize.
We don't want to make sure that every word is exactly the way we wanted to say it.
That adds extra pressure.
But through repetition, those words become more comfortable and easy to retrieve.
That's what practice is doing.
It's actually laying down the neural pathways that make fluency easier for you.
So part of it is the practice and the prep.
Again, not to memorize, but just to get familiar with.
And then the second part is when you have that missed moment, don't
put too much pressure on yourself.
Take a deep breath, and I hope that word will come.
And I, Kat, as somebody who talks to you many times every day, have found
that you use expert language, and I've never noticed anything other than that.
So thank you for your question.
I appreciate it.
Well, you got to meet Kat, our executive producer.
I'd like for you to meet another one of our absolutely instrumental and important
colleagues here at Think Fast Talk Smart.
I'd love for you to meet Neil McPhedran.
Neil and I have been working together almost since the inception of the show.
Neil, thanks for being with us, and I'd love to hear what question you have.
Neil McPhedran: Thanks, Matt.
Great to join you here.
So Matt, my question's about a moment as well, like Kat's, but a different moment.
So I'm curious about those first five seconds of public speaking, that
exact moment when it just feels like all the eyes suddenly turn to you.
So in fact, I just had one where one second I was sitting here listening,
and next I'm popped up on everyone's screen, asked this question.
So whether it's joining a Zoom presentation, suddenly, boom, you're
the focus or walking out onto that stage after being introduced and
the applause stops, and there's that instant where for me, it feels like
I've just jumped into cold water.
What are your favorite strategies for handling that surge of adrenaline, like
settling your nerves and ultimately starting those first few seconds strongly?
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for that question.
And, and that moment right before you start, what I call commencing,
is really powerful for many people and can be very anxiety fraught.
So it's something we really need to think about.
Let me share a few things about that moment.
One, as we practice, as we prepare, which is really important to do, we can
think about that moment knowing that that moment might be difficult for us.
We can desensitize ourselves to that moment.
So we think about what it would be like.
We can actually visualize the experience and then think about how
we might adjust and adapt in advance.
Having that contingency plan ready to go, one, can allow us to invoke it when need
be, and two, just the fact that we know we have something to do if we get that
surge of adrenaline in that moment, that can actually reduce its intensity just
by knowing that we have something to do.
So part of it is the preparation.
When that moment hits, I want to walk you through three steps.
When it comes to dealing with anxiety around speaking, we
need to think of the ABC's.
Affect, that's feeling.
B is for behavior, how you physiologically feel.
And then C is for cognition.
And we can do a management technique for each.
So let's start with the A. That emotion you feel might be dread, might be fear.
In that moment, just remind yourself that it's normal and natural.
Most people, and I mean, like eighty-five percent of people, have that surge
of anxiety that you're talking about.
So recognizing that it's normal and natural can help.
And when you do that, you acknowledge it.
You actually give yourself a little bit of space and agency, so you can
do something in that moment A great thing to do is to remind yourself that
this is normal and natural to feel anxious, and it actually is a sign that
this is important to you and valuable.
And you can get excited about something that's important and valuable.
As you well know, Neil, a frequent guest of our show is Alison Wood Brooks.
She did some groundbreaking research quite a while back now that said
if you reframe your anxiety as excitement, not only do you feel
better, but you actually perform better.
So in that moment, the affect piece, acknowledge, "Hey, this is me feeling
nervous. Makes sense I'm nervous. Most people would be, and that's a sign that
I should be excited about this." In terms of behavior in that moment, five seconds,
10 seconds before you start, best thing you can do is take a deep belly breath.
It's going to slow your heart rate down.
It's going to calm down those nerves.
Make sure your exhale is twice as long as your inhale.
It is all in the exhale that the magic happens.
And then finally, from a cognitive point of view, often in those few moments
before we start speaking, we say a lot of negative things to ourselves.
"I'm not prepared.
I should have done more.
Why am I doing this?
Why isn't this other person doing it?" Instead, let's replace that
with something positive, a positive affirmation, a positive mantra.
Doesn't have to be, "I'm the best speaker ever." Could be something simple.
This is what I do before I speak, and I get nervous, and I still do
get nervous in some situations.
I simply say, "I have value to bring. I have something of value to the
person or people that I'm speaking to." So at first you prepare.
You think about, "What will I do if I have that experience?" And
then ABC, the affective part.
It's normal and natural, typical for somebody to get nervous in this situation.
B, do some deep breathing.
That's for the behavioral piece.
And C for the cognition, reframe it and see it through the lens of
some kind of affirmation or mantra.
If you do those things, you'll be better off.
Thanks, Neil, and I'm glad everybody got to meet you and Kat.
So let's see.
We've got some questions coming in.
First question's from Ethiopia.
Wow.
Hello, hello.
Uh, I talk a lot about tell the time, don't build the clock.
Yet on the other hand, I will often say listeners tend to remember
specifics more than generalities.
So I find those two concepts contradictory.
How can you make sure that you're concise and clear and
at the same time give detail?
This is a great question because it is a contradiction, right?
It is a little bit confusing.
How can we be concise but detailed at the same time?
So this is a trade-off, and there are a number of trade-offs that we
have to make whenever we communicate.
We want to be specific and detailed, but we also want to be clear and concise.
So the question then becomes how much detail do I give?
And it really depends on your audience and the emotional
impact you're trying to have.
If I am trying to really motivate, impress upon you how important this is,
I might spend a little bit more time giving detail because in that emotional
experience you'll have of my detail, you are focusing in a way that you
don't if I'm just relaying facts, if I'm just walking through, let's say,
financial data or some technical data where there isn't as much emotion.
It really depends on what your goal is in terms of the engagement you want.
If you want engagement that's deep and perhaps emotional, over-index, spend
a little more time giving detail, which means you won't be as concise.
If you're giving details that are devoid or, or don't have a lot of
emotions, then I might really fixate on being concise and clear to allow me
to get to a point in my communication where I do want to bring emotion.
So I really appreciate the deep thinking that you had there in
terms of the advice that I give.
It is a tension between concision and depth, and you have to find your best way
of navigating that, and, and I believe it has to do with who you're speaking
to and the emotion you want to engage.
Thank you so much for that question.
Really insightful.
I appreciate it.
All right, our next question.
With a growing reliance on AI for summarization, email drafts, slides,
how do you ensure our cognitive and linguistic skills remain sharp?
Oh, wow.
This is something that I have been spending a lot of my
time recently thinking about.
AI is fundamentally changing the way we communicate.
And in fact, I believe that AI is actually making face-to-face, spontaneous,
in-the-moment communication even more important And it's more important because
that's how we authentically connect.
In theory, AI can polish and in some cases perfect our communication, but it makes
it more restrictive and blunts its emotion and reduces some of its connection.
Part of that is that we offload our cognitive effort to the AI tool.
We don't have to think as much.
And communication and critical thinking are intimately related.
You can't communicate well without critically thinking, and you
can't critically think without being able to communicate well.
And as we offload some of that critical thinking burden, we
ultimately, I fear, lessen our skills.
And we're starting to see this.
Some recent research came out that says people are speaking less.
We're just saying less.
Part of what AI does is it increases concision, so we, we speak less.
People's language and words are starting to become compressed.
In other words, we're sounding more the same because we're
relying on the same tools.
That's all just proof points to say that AI does have an
impact on our communication.
So how do we make sure to leverage AI for the many benefits it can bring to us
and not suffer some of the consequences?
Well, it has to do with when we use it and how we use it.
I think AI is a great tool to help you think through your audience, to use it as
a thought partner in terms of different ways of arguing and structuring content.
But do not rely on it to make all the decisions for you and to create
the content instead of you actually thinking through it yourself.
So use it as you would, let's say, a partner, or if you're a manager, as you
might use an intern, somebody to help you, but not to do the work for you,
because if we outsource it all the way, we actually lose some of the most precious
communication skills that we have.
So thank you for that insightful question.
This is an issue that I have been thinking about a lot, and you highlight both the
value of AI and some of the downsides.
Let's see.
In my work, I find that storytelling is important for sharing information with
others rather than academic teaching.
Do you have any takeaways for storytelling?
Oh, storytelling is so important.
First, human beings are storytelling machines.
We are wired for story.
Long before we had the written word, our species communicated
information through stories.
Think about folklore, legends.
We're wired for story.
So if we can tap into that, we can be much more successful.
Stories engage and connect, so much so that when I tell a story, my
brainwaves and your brainwaves sync up.
It's called cognitive entrainment.
And in some cases, when you look at the neurological feedback, you
can't tell who was telling the story versus who was receiving it.
Now the question becomes: how do we learn to become good storytellers?
I hope this show, Think Fast, Talk Smart, provides some of the
very important tools to do that.
We've done several episodes on storytelling.
We did one with Matthew Dicks.
We did a whole miniseries on storytelling from people who have
non-traditional storytelling jobs.
Think of a lawyer, think of a magician.
Lots of different situations where people tell stories, and
we really try to dissect them.
It is a skill.
It is a skill you can learn, and everybody has to develop their
own style around storytelling.
A great way to get started is to think about stories in your
life, things that have happened.
Create a catalog of stories that you have experienced or that you
have seen, and begin to refine them.
Think about, how can I add detail, emotion, make it relatable to people?
How can I start it in a way that's engaging?
So it is a process.
It's a process you have to practice.
Another great way to get good at storytelling is just listen
to other people's stories.
Find people that you really admire who tell good stories, and
begin to dissect what do they do.
Do they start at the beginning, or do they start in the middle and then
bring you back to the beginning?
Do they use a lot of descriptive words?
Do they lead with emotion?
All of these are really interesting tools that you can deploy
to be a better storyteller.
I encourage all of you to work on your storytelling skills.
And please, please consider Think Fast, Talk Smart as a good resource for that.
If you go to our website, fastersmarter.io, and you go to the
Resources page, you'll actually see some playlists that talk through
stories and how to tell good stories.
So thank you for that question.
Let's see.
From San Diego, one of my favorite places.
How do you know when to use lingo to relate with your
audience and to avoid jargon?
Yeah, this is a really, again, a tricky tension that we have.
Sometimes using specific terminology, lingo as you say, can actually
demonstrate your competence.
The problem is, if you use too much of it, or you use that terminology
with others who aren't in the know or don't have the experience you do,
then it tips into jargon, and jargon is wording that it can be distancing.
One of my colleagues, he's been on the show twice, Huggy Rao.
Huggy likes to talk about jargon monoxide.
It suffocates communication.
So we want to avoid using lingo, technical speak, acronyms just for the use of them.
They should serve a purpose.
So if the purpose is to demonstrate competence, to connect with your
audience on a deep level because they know the terms well, then I
would suggest using those terms.
But if you think someone in the audience might not be aware or they
don't have the depth of knowledge, at the very least, define your terms.
Maybe you show them on a slide, maybe you spell them out
the first time you use them.
There is more reputational risk, I believe, in using jargon,
terminology people don't know, than there is reputational advantage to
using lingo that people do know.
I think you are set farther back by using jargon than you are put farther
ahead by using appropriate lingo.
So I'd like to introduce you to a few more of our team members who
work tirelessly behind the scenes to help bring Think Fast, Talk Smart
to you twice a week every week.
Kylé, I'd love to have you join me on screen.
Kylé helps with so many facets of how we make our show work for all of you.
Welcome, Kylé.
I know you've got a question for me.
Would love to hear it.
Kylé McPhedran: Hi, Matt.
Nice to see you here.
I have a question about high emotion situations.
As a leader, I sometimes feel very nervous before difficult one-on-one
conversations with employees, especially when I need to ask a hard question
or give constructive feedback where they could potentially get emotional.
How do I stay calm before and during the moment, make sure I actually deliver
my point while still addressing the situation clearly, but showing care?
Matt Abrahams: Well, so Kylé, just so you all know, Kylé is a very
empathetic and kind person, and that's demonstrated in your question.
Because often as a leader, we have to give constructive feedback.
We have to give direction that might be challenging for those
that are reporting to us.
And it's really appropriate to be concerned about their
emotions, but also your emotions.
So if this is a circumstance where you actually get to plan it out in
advance, then I would be thinking through not just the messaging.
One of the many structures that we cover, what, so what now, what
is a great way to give feedback.
What is the feedback?
So what is why it's important.
Now what is what you'd like the person to do differently.
So thinking through the structure, maybe even practicing vocalizing it can help.
But also thinking through the emotions that you might feel in that
moment, and really think through what this might be like for you.
Anxiety, maybe there's a little bit of frustration with the person.
By cataloging and thinking about those emotions first, that can help
you come up with a contingency plan.
And then remind yourself, your job as a leader, as a manager,
is to help your team succeed and to help your employees succeed.
And part of that is actually giving constructive feedback.
So taking the time to plan the message and to plan for the
emotion can be really helpful.
Kylé McPhedran: That's really helpful.
Thank you very much.
Matt Abrahams: Very good.
All right, let me now take one more question from one of our
team that helps bring the show.
I'd like to bring Greg in.
Greg is so helpful, particularly on all the technical aspects of our show.
Greg, good to see you.
Thanks for being here.
I'd love to hear your question.
Gregg Oldring: Wonderful to see you, too.
Thanks, Matt, and hello, listeners.
Okay, my question is this, and I think the listeners will have
noticed this, listening to this show, that you have a superpower,
and that superpower is summarizing.
You have an incredible ability to do it.
You listen to somebody speak, and you repeat back what
they've said in your own words.
And what that does for us as listeners of the show, I think
it clarifies what's been said and helps us to understand and remember.
And having worked with you now for a couple of years, what it does for
me personally is it shows empathy.
It shows that you are listening to what I'm saying, and so it feels good as
the person receiving that summary back.
And so my question to you is this: What is going through your mind right now as
you are listening to my long, rambling, uh, preamble to my question, so that
you can summarize what I have said?
Matt Abrahams: So you're really asking about paraphrasing
and how I go about doing it.
As I listen to our guests, as I listen to you, as I will be listening and reading
the questions from others today, I am always asking myself, what's the bottom
line of what the person is saying, and why and how is it relevant, in the case of the
interviews on the show, to the audience?
As you're speaking, I'm listening intently, and I'm constantly thinking
to myself, what's the bottom line?
What's the key point the person is making?
I might get it wrong, and that's where paraphrasing actually helps because
not only does it validate you, it says, "I've heard you," but it also allows
me to validate that I got it right.
Because if I miss it, you could correct me.
Paraphrasing not only is a tool for connection, it's a fidelity check.
Fidelity is the accuracy and clarity of the transmission of the information.
It's a wonderful tool to connect, and it's a wonderful tool to make sure
I'm hearing what people are saying.
And I encourage all of you to practice.
At the end of every one of our episodes, I would love for you to
take a moment and say, what was the bottom line key takeaway from that
episode for me, you as the listener?
And then we hope you put it into practice.
But by training that skill, you can really help yourself connect and make sure
you're accurately hearing information.
How'd I do, Greg?
Did I paraphrase that well?
Gregg Oldring: You paraphrased it well.
Matt Abrahams: Greg, you do amazing work, as does the rest of the team.
Thank you for the question.
Let's take one final question, please.
Please share tips for beginning speakers to seem unplanned in using
gestures while having actually planned and rehearsed ahead.
Oh, well, I've got a little teaser for you.
Coming up actually right around the time this episode, our three hundredth
episode airs, I am interviewing Vanessa Van Edwards, and Vanessa is
an amazing researcher as well as a presenter on communication issues.
And we talked exactly about this issue.
You'll hear the dialogue and discussion there, but I'll give you a summary here.
Gestures are really important.
Gestures are, for the audience, a way that we can engage in a multimodal way.
Our brains are primarily designed to take in the world visually.
There are more parts of the human brain dedicated to vision,
seeing, than to the other senses.
So while I'm speaking, you have an area in your brain that's verbal,
but there's a lot more that's visual.
So when I'm gesturing in a consistent way, I'm actually reinforcing what I'm
saying because you're seeing it and you're hearing it, and I'm activating
a lot of brain regions for doing it.
Now, for me as a communicator, the one, in this case, speaking, gestures
actually offload cognitive load.
So when I gesture, I actually make it easier for myself to think.
So if my gestures are consistent with what I'm saying, it
actually helps me be clearer.
It increases my processing fluency.
And for you, it makes it easier to understand because I'm
engaging multiple brain systems.
So gesturing is really important.
How do we practice it though so we don't look robotic?
First, we do not want to script gestures.
I do not want to start a speech in a very scripted way because it looks scripted, it
looks disingenuous, it looks inauthentic.
So how do we practice?
For many people who are just beginning to work on gestures, my biggest bit of
advice is play charades as you speak.
Charades is a game where we don't use words to describe
things, we use our gestures.
Use what are known as descriptive gestures.
So if I'm standing up giving a, a sales pitch and say, "This is a
big opportunity," I gesture big.
I wouldn't say, "This is a big opportunity," and gesture small.
If I were saying, "Profits will likely rise," I do a gesture
that demonstrates rising.
You're mimicking or mirroring the words in your gestures.
And if you're not comfortable with gesturing or you want to learn
to gesture more, starting with descriptive gestures is easiest.
Then you graduate to what are called emphatic gestures, and
if you've ever watched me speak, you see I use a lot of these.
Emphatic gestures are gestures that add emphasis.
They don't have an immediate correlate to what I'm saying.
A former student of mine actually introduced a technique to me for
practicing this as he was preparing for a presentation he had in my class.
What he would do is he would audio record himself, do, like, a voice memo
of him presenting his presentation, not memorized, not reading it.
He would just talk it through and record it.
And then he would put earbuds in, he would stand up, and he would listen to
himself saying the words, and he would just walk around practicing the gestures
that he might say as those words were delivered, not to script them, but
to give him the cognitive bandwidth.
He didn't have to think of what to say because he was just
listening to himself say it.
He could actually think about his gestures and say, "You know, at this
point, I should probably do a really big gesture. At this point, maybe I
should move because it's a transition."
He was freeing up his brain to think about how he wanted to gesture because he
didn't need to use all of that cognitive bandwidth to think of what he was saying.
So this is a great way to practice.
It's an intermediate step.
You absolutely need to practice speaking and gesturing, but before that, you
can do this technique of recording it, listening to it while you're presenting.
So those are all ways to hone and develop gesturing.
Start with descriptive gestures, know that gestures are helping you and
your audience, and record yourself and practice listening to that recording.
With that, I will simply say, first, thank you for joining me for this.
I thoroughly enjoyed the questions.
I hope you found value in the answers.
So there you have it, our 300th episode.
Thank you again for listening and your support.
Do me a huge favor and be sure to subscribe and rate us.
Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram.
If you like celebration episodes, please take a listen to our 250th
episode all about managing conflict.
This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Shelby Merriweather,
Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
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