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hello and welcome. This is Rasheem of the counter narrative. This is episode 13, and we will be discussing natural hair. I have three fantastic guests joining me tonight, I have Angela Hardy of simple wellness day spa as well as Jennifer Taylor and Danny red wine. Each one of them will be joining telling their about their personal experiences, insights and information on their natural hair journey, their process, and kind of just what's that been like for them. Hi, Jennifer,
as
the others come in, please do introduce yourself. And the way I like to have people introduce themselves is I like to them to answer three questions, What is your name, your relationship or interest in the topic, and tell us something that you're passionate about. Great, go for it.
Okay, a little bit of a echo, but I'm Jennifer Hutchison Taylor, so I am a Certified Clinical Master Herbalist and a physiologist. And so my connection with natural hair goes pretty deep and long, because that's basically where I started my practice into the whole natural and holistic lifestyle that I live now. And so it's exciting to get on here, and I appreciate this opportunity, and it's exciting to talk about this, because I haven't talked about it in a long time. And basically my start to to change in my entire life was I started with getting natural hair. And I don't feel me tell my story now or wait, but
okay, I would like to hear a little bit more just to just to add context.
Yeah. So basically, in 2008 or so when I started with natural hair, and I did this whole transition period for 10 months. And so I can talk about that. And then what I did, you know, later on the show. But basically I transitioned for 10 months out of the relaxer, and then in 2009 I did my job. And then from, basically, from 2009 until now, I had two sets of locks, and I've rocked so many different afros. And then I had my hair. I had locks in the top, and then I had my hair shaved in the back. It was all, you know, I just tried so many different things. It was a fun experience and but that also helped me. So when I was going through that transition time, I was doing things more naturally, and so it really helped me figure out that I loved herbs and I loved using natural remedies to do stuff. So I made my own skincare and haircare products, and I use a lot of herbs in those that helped me to transition and become an herbalist. And now I, you know, am all in it. I'm a clinical herbalist now and and so I take clients, and I talk to women, especially about going natural and being natural, holistically, from top to bottom. So
no, that's kind of nutshell. A little bit more about the relationship between herbs and natural hair. You talked about being a clinical herbalist. Is that what it's so you talk to us a little bit about being a clinical, clinical herbalist, and that like getting to that path somewhere, in some ways, through your hair. Tell us more about
that, yeah, because, and I can talk about some of the herbs that I use, like early on, to help my hair, to strengthen my hair, to make it grow better, and all that, because it does. There are herbs out there that can do that and to help you to get to that point. And if you look at some products that claim that they're natural, a lot of times they have a lot of herbs in them, like aloe vera. They may have sage, rosemary, calendula, a lot of things like that you might see. And they give the give that product. They give it nutrients. So it's helpful for your hair and so getting away from using a lot of toxins, and especially the relaxer is, you know, amazing, but what do you do? You know, and that's, that's the norm that people have been grown up with and all that. So the majority of people have anyway. So for me, going to the herbs and going back to the earth and going back to my roots was really important for me, for one, and I decided to do that and learn more about herbs in a way that I could use them holistically, and use them, you know, for internal use, for medicinal use, but also for my hair and skin. And it really helped my hair and skin, because I dealt with I dealt with eczema, I dealt with dry. Skin, which is, you know, you know, the the, I guess, the precursor to eczema a lot of times anyway, even though eczema comes from, usually a just an imbalance in the digestive system. But anyway, so those are things that I dealt with, and I was able to heal and use herbs naturally and diet as well to help to grow my hair and be happy with it,
right? So that is an interesting product. I mean, that's an interesting journey, and that's an interesting experience to get there. And a lot of times when we have the conversation, we use words like, Go Natural, right? Or we're and when we're talking about, um, natural hair. Anytime I hear natural hair, always assume you're talking about black people here. Oh yeah, because a lot of white women, I don't know if they they say use terms like natural hair, um, so I'm assuming. And you know, in terms of, like, going natural, you weren't always natural. So tell me about the process between, okay, I have processed hair and now I'm going to go natural. Hmm,
well, I have to think back, you know. So for me, I wanted to go natural because I saw how beautiful it was. And whenever my hair would go, you know, I would go for a relaxer, maybe every I don't remember, gosh, it seems so long ago. It seems like I just, like, blocked out that time in my life and I had a relaxer. But, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go that often, so I will let my hair grow out, so I would have some new growth. And I like that new growth. It felt good, you know, it felt like my hair was thicker and more lively or whatever. And so I just kind of liked that so much. And something was pulling me to that, you know, it was, it was something within me that I was just and that's one thing that I can tell for myself looking back now, and this is, like I said, exciting experience, look back now, because I haven't done it in a long time to kind of recap what, what I've gone through with, with my hair and, you know, all that. So thinking back, you know, it's like something was pulling me to that natural lifestyle, something I don't even know what it was. It was within me, I assume, because I'm from small town, South Carolina, and, you know, we did things very country, and, you know, connecting with the Earth was very big, even though you didn't really talk about that. But being outside, you know, being with your shoes off, and being just a one with nature like that was how I grew up. And that kind of got away from that. And then I decided, You know what I'm going to go back to that. I might not be running around my shoes off, but I am going to go back to that and be natural and really get seriously and do it. Do it, you know, full and complete. And I started with my hair. And so I'm glad I did, because that led to an entire holistic lifestyle, basically, you know. So I'm very plant based, like the makeup, the makeup, the makeup that I'm wearing now is 100% plant based. You know, everything that I do is is plant based. And I'm really excited that that, you know, I started with my hair and and it took me to this point, hope that answers your question. But, you know, does it answer your question? Absolutely does.
And your hair is beautiful. Oh, thank you, gorgeous.
Go ahead, I will tell you, this is actually not all of my hair actually clips. These are actually clippings. So my hair is like this under there, just not as thick as and big as this. So we can talk about too, that too, if you want. That's
definitely going to be something that that we'll get to always love, though, love hearing different aspects of the like people's transition stories and really quick before I get into that, I want to shout out everyone who I could see in the room. I'm letting you guys know that I can't see all for whatever reason, we're having a little bit of technical issues tonight. So I actually can't even see everyone in the room, unless you type in the chat. And there's two other people that I want to let on. And right now, it's being a bit buggy, so I want to say hello to Angela, who is in the room. She is Angela. Angela beard, Hardy of simple wellness day spa. She's also does my hair, shatonia, shatonia, as well as Reese's Pieces, Crystal. Lee, I saw Jonathan in here earlier, and if there's more people in here that I didn't say hello to, please just type something in the chat, because it's not allowing me to actually see everyone in the room for whatever reason. So here's the thing. So I love hearing about people's transition stories, and people get to their transition to natural hair in a lot of different ways. Shatonia mentioned that she had issues with alopecia. I. Hmm, and some people have issues where they get, like, a really bad perm, and then, you know, and then something pops off. I know, when I was very young, I had, like, I had, like, spotted alopecia. And she talked, and she told me, talks about a little bit about what she did to handle her alopecia. She talked about injections from dermatologists, as well as castor oil. And while I hear a lot about castor oil, castor oil as one of, like the oils, I don't always hear about what it is to your skin, like, we just think of it as, like, about hair, but under them, we have a scalp, and we have so what has been some of your experiences, I would say, like, with scalp treatment versus and hair treatment.
Yeah, I also had some bad perm So, where I had some really thin, thinning on one side and a little bit in the top here. So, yeah, so for getting that back. And, you know, recovery for this, for the scalp, especially, what I did was use aloe vera, which was, you know, which is really an amazing herb. It has so many medicinal properties for your internal and for your skin. Especially people know it. Know of it for your skin, mostly, but it also is great for internal use. But, yeah, it's very healing. And with alopecia in particular, it's more of like an autoimmune disorder or disease kind of so your your body is basically attacking those, those hair follicles, okay, because of stress or because of some type of chemical imbalance within your body. So it can come from a lot of different areas, including the relaxers too, because your skin is very sensitive to those harsh chemicals. So using something, I mean, obviously removing those harsh chemicals the first thing, but then using something that's very restorative, such as the aloe vera, because for one, aloe vera can also get into your skin or go underneath your skin, much better than certain other, you know, things out there, like like the castor oil or new olive oil coconut oil, because it actually has some type of reaction with the skin where it can get under there, and It can help you absorb more water into your skin too. Yeah. So it's very, very healing and restorative to your to your scalp and skin. So I would recommend aloe vera over I do for my clients too. I recommend aloe vera for skin issues, whether you know your scalp or anywhere in your body. So and people, sleep on aloe vera, but it's tried and true. Yeah, it's tried and true, because so why not use that and use it on your scalp too? A lot of things you know, like the castor oil is very, very thick, and so sometimes your hair and your scalp need to breathe. It's better than using like Vaseline, because that's petroleum, and that's really detrimental and hard, harsh on your skin, but it's still very thick and very coat. I mean, it coats your skin really well. I wouldn't use it unless you have, like, a breakout or a rash or something where you want to, you know, want to kind of cover and soothe it so it won't get irritated even more. But something like aloe vera coconut oil is also really good because it's thin and it's absorbing. It absorbs very well on the skin. So those are some things that I've used and recommend. Right now, I only use coconut oil, like from head to toe. I use it, you know, in my mouth and in my cocaine. Everything coconut oil is the truth.
No, I hear that. Um, so just to hear a few things from the chat, shatonian says, Yes, it's very thick. Aloe vera is the only thing that I haven't used. She said recently, she said she made a spray of olive oil, aloe vera juice, black castor oil, water, a small amount of oils that she sprayed and works well. And sometimes, when you when you go to the store, and she Tony also says coconut oil is her life, sometimes when you go to the store and you see stuff and all of these things that you can't pronounce, sometimes you do have to, like, you can just go to your kitchen, right? It's like a lot of things are natural and they're also edible. And I think it's probably a good sign that that if you can digest it into your body, that it you know, that it can, it'll be a better, better for your hair and Reese's, he says, trial and error. And that's some of the things that kind of happened. Um, so I want to ask you Jennifer, and I want anybody in the chat also to tune in and chime in on when I asked her this question, what was your transition? What were some of your transition hairstyles? I'll say mine was. I had um micros for a period of time, and then I. Braids. I was, you know, doing the whole brandy braid thing, um, it was kind of like my transition hairstyle for a long time. What was your transition hairstyle? Jennifer and everybody in the chat, tell me about your transition hairstyle experience.
I also have braids, and I tried to do my own braids for the first time when I was transitioning, and it was like, eye opening experience. I shot big shout out, if you do braids out there, big shout out to you, because that's a lot of patience. It took me probably, like, four, six hours just do like, one side of my hair, and then I had to put the other side, you know, tie the other side up to go, you know, the next day, because I wasn't finished. Like, braiding takes some time, so a big shout out to y'all. So yes, I also did braids. I did, let me think I did regular box braids. And then also did, like, single ease twist a few times. One time I had single ease twist, like, all the way down my to my thigh, almost to my knee. So yeah, there's a lot of lot of different things. Like this is actually a protective style for me, wearing the hair hair piece in here as well. So stuff like that is what I did for protecting
Joel mentioned, he said, I love when one is able to make his or her own shampoo or oil spray conditioner. I just think it's awesome. I think so too, like the I think one of the things that natural hair, we get more invested in our hair. You know, I remember going to the hair and she would just do whatever. She would burn it. I would hear it cooking, you know, I would have a perm stay on it as long as it needed to stay on there because you wanted style. But natural hair, it seems like you get more vested into like my hair. My hair is named Frank.
Okay, yeah, about you, you're experiencing it. It's not like, and that's one thing too. When I, when I had locks, it was like, every single lock had own personality, you know, like one one side was was shorter than the other, and I was like, why is this side not growing like the other side? And then the, you know, there was some in the front that always wanted to stick a certain way. So you get to know your hair, and you know only you know it. You know and you like you say, you get invest, invested in it, invested in it. And so then you want to use the most natural and best products for it, too. You don't want your hair you know. You know changing so much or being damaged because you have put all this work into it. You've gotten to know it. You wash it and groom yourself and, yeah, it's it's an amazing experience. And I hope that more people watching this, or, you know, later on, we'll see it, will decide to to get on the get on the same road with us,
join the clubs. It's plenty of well, I know I have a friend that one of her main protective styles that she uses is she uses wigs like and it was also something she used a lot with her transition. Like she got, she got traditional locks, palm rolled lock, and when they were really short, she just wore a lot of wigs when she went to work, but kind of like wore her her hair out. So I know that everyone who is probably listening may not be kinfolk, so to speak. So when you talk about new growth, tell us what new for people who may not understand or know what new growth you because one of the thing about womanist culture is we have our own language materials. We have our own processes for things. And there's things that we can use in conversation between each other and everybody not necessarily know what that is. So tell us, what is new growth?
Well, new growth is so after you have a relaxer, basically your hair is completely straight. So the chemicals in relaxer straighten all of your hair so that natural coiled curl that you have is no longer there. So after, I would say, about three weeks, maybe you will start to see your hair grows about about six inches per year, right? I think something like that, remember. And so maybe about after three to three or four weeks or so, a few weeks, you will have some of your new hair growing. So, new growth, okay, so from your scalp, you know, you have a maybe an inch or half an inch of of hair. That's actually the coiled hair so that hasn't been processed. It hasn't been touched by the by the chemicals. And so you have that hair there, and then you have your firmed hair on the outside, so it's basically new growth from your scalp. No,
it's funny, when you talked about the coil. Little hair at the bottom, and then your straight hair, because I remember having some traumatic days, especially where it's like, not quite it's like, you know, curly, curly. And then you got this one, you know, all types of crazy things. And I also use it new growth now is my texture of when I need to go to the salon again. You know, okay for life, when I'm like, got a little new growth coming in, we'll go back to section. One person said, I stick with two strand twists, head wraps, and sometimes it grows out. I did a big job, so I didn't really transition. Another person said, I noticed that one side of my hair is thicker than the other, and crystal says my hairdresser told me the same thing a few years ago, the front side of my hair is thicker than the left side. And another person said their right side is thicker. And Reese, Reese said, I wonder if it that has anything to do which side we sleep on the most. So I will say what this is. One thing that I will say, one of the things that I noticed is like sometimes we try to assimilate to one style or one look. But what I appreciate about the beauty of natural hair is that your hair is uniquely you Jennifer, like, that's, you know what I mean, and my hair is, and I'm not doing a whole lot too. I mean, we do as much as we can to try to tame this rebellious stuff on our head. But it being thick on what this tells me is it being thicker on one side might happen. It being, you know, fuller or thinner or another side what might happen. But I love the point that Risa brought up about how we sleep and how that might impact because I have noted so some of the things that we do to tell me about, some of the things that you do when you go to sleep, to protect your hair, whether it's rapid or what do you do pre bed? What do you do after, like, what is your protective sleep style? If you have one,
yeah, definitely moisturize my hair. So putting on the coconut oil in the evenings. Um, massaging my scalp too, because that really helps to, you know, encourage growth, dodging my scalp, and it's relaxing, so it gets ready for bed and and then putting on that silk scarf. I I have probably 30 different scarfs, seriously, because I cannot go without sleeping with that scarf on, because I know that that, you know, rubbing your head on a cotton pillow will definitely start to give you more split ends and make your hair more dull, because a lot of the moisture that your hair already produces itself can be absorbed in the pillowcase, because if it's caught, it's cotton especially. And so you want to protect your hair, keep it moisturized in the evening, and that's what I do, is make sure I wrapped up. Wrap it up.
Yeah, I know sometimes another thing, like someone mentioned that they do the two strand twist before they go to bed. I have done that a few times. Say that I noticed that when I don't like so I don't know about y'all head wraps when y'all go to bed, but my head wraps sometimes be like they on a mission to come off. Yes, inspiring. It's like when you and that one stop, go missing. It's like my head wraps be conspiring against me. It's so but one of the things that I noticed, too is that, like my I sleep on this side most, and this side is also thinner, yeah, and I noticed that happens when my head start comes off.
Have you tried the sock lock or the lock stock? I think it's called, where it basically covers your hair, it covers you, and it kind of tightens up around I know I have one. I use it for my locks, but my locks weren't long long. So they're for people who have long locks, but you can still wear it because it tightens up around your open again. I think it's called a lock sock or sock lock, okay,
I'll check that out. That familiar to me, but I'll definitely check out the lock stop. So you also mentioned pieces, like you have things that you use to make your hair fuller. I know some people who have locks, and they also still get lock extensions and that sort of thing. Tell me what are some of the things that and where. And also, sometimes I'm curious like, where do where do you find the pieces that match? We have a lot of different, you know, curl patterns. So tell me about some of those things that we can do that add or enhance who we are, but not necessarily. You. Cover up, right?
So for me, I'll tell you, I'll try to find that the website and post this. People might want to be interested in where I got, where this came from. This was actually my sisters. So she found it because she was wearing it one day, and I was like, let your hair for you know, for a second I had to do a double take, because it looked just like her hair. And so, you know, she told me about this, but it's basically these snap ins, yeah, and they just like, they're like, little combs, and they they snap and so you unsnap it and put it on, and then snap it in to keep it in place. So I'll post the website where I got, where she got this from, if I can find it right quick. But your question to your question, you know, to enhance, you know, your look or whatever, to make your hair more full whatever, I think, you know, for a long time, I was so against wearing weaves, wearing extensions, you know, wearing anything but braids, because I knew that that was, that's African, and that's what I aspire, you know, that's what I am, you know, so and then so I was all about the afro or locks, and so I never wanted to, you know, change my look. Then, of course, there's a whole other story behind why I decided to start wearing this hair, but, but I love it because it does match my hair and match my personality, match my style. I don't want to have straight hair, so I wanted to have the curly hair for me. I know my hair is very kinky curly. And so this curly hair, this style, I think, is, I think it's called kinky something like the kinky hair that you buy for, like buns, for making the buzz. And so I think that's the kind of curl pattern it has. But, yeah, you can find, I mean, I think nowadays, like this hair, I don't think was around 510, years ago, when, when I was transitioning and stuff. I wish it was. But I think now people want to have that full Afro curly look, which I think is beautiful, and so I think that's what's coming out now.
Did you meet with much resistance with whether it's within yourself or with others, in terms of during your transition, whether it is, oh my gosh. I can't, like, some people like, Oh, I wish I could, you know, get locks. But, you know, one they'll either tell me their hair won't lock, which I'm like, okay, oh yeah,
grandma, everybody's hair locked. I went, so my first set of locks. And I was, like, my first set of locks, I was, I did a whole YouTube. I did my all my traditional YouTube and also did all of my lock journey on YouTube. And I really was, like, obsessed with it, basically for my for my first lock journey, and so I documented everything. I, you know, made my own stuff. I, you know, also went and got it done most of the time. I didn't do a retwist, sorry. And then my and then I decided to cut all those off, because, for one, I was having too much build up because I was using too many products. Okay, that's why I only use coconut oil. Now, using too many products, had too much build up, so I decided to cut those off, grow my afro out. So I had a huge afro, and then all of a sudden, we were moving a few times. And basically my hair started a lot because I didn't take I didn't start combing it out every morning. So my hair just your hair automatically locks, especially if you have tight coiled hair, even if you don't have tight coil hair, if you leave it along alone, excuse me, for three or four months, your hair would be locked. Okay, that's basically free form locks. And so my hair started to lock. So I said, Okay, I guess it wants to lock, so I just let it lock up. And before that, with my old set of locks, I did. My hair was shorter in the back. My locks were shorter in the back. So I decided to shake those off, like I said earlier, so I had a different style. But yeah, I mean, your hair will lock. Don't think your hair won't lock. It will. It depends on how you want it to lock. If you wanted to be a free form lock, or if you wanted to be very manicured lock, okay, if you want free form, that's easy. You can just let your hair go. Don't comb it, don't brush it. If you want to be manual, you know, manicured, then you also obviously need to go and and get it parted and locked properly. And, you know, palm palm rolled, or whatever you want to do, or sister lock like yours, or whatever. So,
no, I mean, thank you computer. I mean, yeah. And one of the things I love that that Angela beard Hardy brings up of simple wellness day spa here in Baltimore, plug. One of the things that I love that she brings up is that you can different styles with locks too. I. Um, you know, she just took out Havana twist with someone she has a sister with, with those types of locks. There's all types of styles. Because one of the things I hear from people is, I would go natural, I would get lost, but I like to change my hair too much. And it's like, I know sisters with locks who do a lot like, you could put it up, you can, you know, I flat iron my locks before I've curled, you know, did all type of styles, um, Jennifer,
mine too, yeah. And I would garlic curl them using just do like a Bantu knot. You just bantu knot them and then take them out and they'll be curled like, very easy. You have to buy anything you know, for that,
right? And I appreciate you sharing the link for people who are watching the replay, or anybody who just joined again. This is the counter narrative. I am Rasheem, today's topic is natural hair, and we are speaking right now with Jennifer Taylor. So Jennifer shared a link, and that is her given hair. That's H, E R, G, i, v, e, n, H, A, I H, A, i r.com, so it's spelled exactly how it sound. And that's a link to where she got, um, some of the pieces that are in her head that is just making it pop. And so full um, shatonia says she's trying to find some curly clips and to match her curl pattern. Maybe, if you go to that her giving hair.com site that might work for you. Joe also says, speaking of curl patterns, I would love to know the differences in each curl pattern and what it means. Sometimes understanding curl patterns can be difficult because most of us get natural hair to get that look or that certain curl pattern, which is a fantastic point that I appreciate. Joel, um, Joel bringing up, um, so can you speak on that a little bit, um, Jennifer, about curl patterns and also, Angela, can you type in the chat and tell us a little bit more about curl patterns as
well? Yeah, please, Angela, because I'm not an expert on coil patterns. I know that. I know that my mind is like a 4c I think, which is pretty tight, tight, tight curls. Because I'm I'm half Nigerian, so I'm very African, and so my hair is very, very thick and tight. And I think I'm thinking like the the smaller numbers are more loose corals. So basically, there's numbers that correspond numbers and letters that correspond to the tightness or the looseness of your curl pattern. So if your hair is very tightly, so when you wash your hair, it shrinks a lot, or either it's very loose and can be combed very easily. That's what I know from you know from the curl patterns. But yeah, you're so on point. Whoever that was, Joel that said you want that look. Well, does it match your natural hair? Because basically, either you're going to have to cover up your entire hair to get that look, or you're going to incorporate, like I did, incorporate it in and make it look more natural, like it was really your hair. So So yeah, that's a great point. You know, it's up to you and what you're comfortable with and what you're comfortable with, you know, showing, presenting how you want to present yourself to the world. So,
um, to the point that we were talking about earlier. Um, Angela says all hair locks, the variance is how long it will take. Um, someone else said, not realizing that we all have curl patterns that differ. That's what Joel said. Shatonian says she's more of a 3c, four, a curl pattern. And Angela says she has white clients who has locks. It's all about selecting the right technique and the product to aid in the process. And Joel says it is true that locks can cause thinning after Is it true that lots can cause thinning after so many years, I had lost years and noticed that this that the scalp. It look at the scalp, it looks thin. And this was for many people that I know. So you want to tackle that one. Yeah. Well, well, my
so my fiance also had locks for probably close to that long too, and so he cut his locks off because he was getting thin around the edge, so his hairline was exceeding, he says. But so I think I can relate to that, or at least, you know, from from people talking about it, and for him, from his experience too, that your hair gets so heavy that, especially, they start to get really long and thick. If you really have thick hair anyway, your hair does get heavy and it pulls and so you can have some thinning occur. But I guess what you can do is just always keep your hair up, or always wear styles that are more protective, like you're, you know, pulling it back or pulling it so it's not just hanging so much. And also, when you wash your hair, too, of course, it's going to be much heavier, right? So, you know, drying it right away, so it's not dragging down or being heavy on your on your scalp, could help. You know,
yeah, I agree. I think it's about the. Weight. I don't know how much, how many of us realize, especially if we have traditional locks, that you know, your hair naturally sheds. And so if you have locks and it's not naturally kind of coming off, as our hair does, then it just it adds weight and it starts to pull. So I think that might be some of what's leading to that. But one of the things I want to make an attempt at tackling Joel's questions around the curl pattern. So I just went to a site and looked up. It's called Black naps.org I like that name. Blacknaps.org. Is where I'm getting this from. So it says it has a list of curly hair types, and it says three, a hair has well defined loopy curls, so this one is more prone to friends. This is probably like Becky might have hair like this. So this is a very more Coily and loosely loose curl hair. It curls well, well defined, less spaces between each curl, and it curves a little bit more than three A, the texture may be a little bit more coarse. This may be picture of the woman that I'm looking at look like. She may be of Hispanic descent, like so it's a little bit more of a curl. It's a little bit less loose than the three A, but it's still curly, little bit more curly, and then 3c hair is as defined corkscrew type of hair, and has the smallest spaces between the bins in the hair. Trans of all the three types of hair, avoid heat impossible by using stretching technique braids or budding your hair. Um, it says cleanse and deep condition once per week. More moisturize, often with light botanicals. Then it talks about for a hair. I think that's you know, well, you've been to my my area, the fours. Four a hairy is defined as a curl pattern. It's almost like a S shape. Generally speaking. It retains moisture fairly well, but as with most curly hair types, it can be prone to dryness, being that this hair type has a naturally defined curl pattern. Wash and Go styles may be the best option. 4b has more of a Z pattern. It has a more fluffy cotton appearance due to the bends and the curves in the hair strand. It is highly susceptible to dryness and breakage. This hair type shrinks up to 70% you know, I'll be seeing shrinkage. And it's like, don't be, don't be sleeping on sister shrinkage, because, like this, and then she pull it, and it's like, Whoa.
That's how mine is, yeah, yeah, no,
that's, that's a lot of shrinkage too, 70% with this hair type. It says natural, Naturals. With this hair type will benefit from protective styles, buns, twists, braids, low manipulation styles. Roller says, ponytails, puff puff outs and then 4c 4c it says, look similar to 4b hair type only. It's tightly curl, coiled in its raw state, no products added and freshly watched. It does not have a defined curl pattern. Coils have to be defined either by twisting or braiding or shining, and it gives a whole lot more information around those coil and curl, different curl patterns. I hope that that was somewhat helpful. I'll say this, one of the things that I experienced with curl pattern differences is when I had my hair out, I got it straight flat iron, I got what they call it Dominican blowout, and it changed my pattern up a little bit. Has it ever happened to you? Has it ever happened to anyone in a chat where you have your natural curl pattern and then you get it blown out or flattened a lot of times, and then your curl pattern changes? Yep,
exactly. Just similar as it's the same type of situation where the chemicals, you know, from the relaxer will change your curl pattern too, and then so that high heat from, you know, the flat iron or whatever that or the blow dryer can definitely change the curl pattern, yeah, because it is, but you know, once again, you have your new growth coming back up, which is, you know, after maybe, you know, you've maybe cut your ends a few times, that New growth will start to regenerate. Yeah, I was
said the same thing happened to her. Angela said, No, it damaged your hair. So when you're getting it blown out and you have your curl pattern, you do that. She said, it's damaged that permanent, permanently breaks the bonds. So why? Does it maintain that kind of curl? Um, Quirk play says, I've heard some Dominican salons use relaxers in their shampoo.
Oh, what? Right? It's crazy.
Yeah, you can't be doing you can't be going that hard without permission, right? So I am trying to also still invite people. And it's, again, everyone. It's not showing me everybody who's in the room. So I don't know if you're in the room right now. It's only showing me three viewers, and I can see from the chat that there's way more than three people in here. So and I'm also wanting to get our guests on, and I hope at some point it allows us to get Danny red wine, as well as Angela beard, Hardy of simple wellness on. And again, if you are just tuning in, this is the counter narrative. I am Rasheem. This segment is on natural hair, and we are talking right now with Jennifer Taylor, so when it comes to trend, we talked a little bit about transition styles, protective styles, natural hair styles, all of those things that we all that we talked about with those different curl patterns and that sort of thing we all one of the things that I noticed that they all have in common is they all need moisture. What do you use to moisture? Condition, oil, wash your hair. What is your hair treatment like?
So for me, I have used probably everything under the sun when I was transitioning, when I was going to have my locks and all this different stuff. But I have basically cut it down completely to basically more things. One is, one is black, black soap. I use black soap, African black, black soap to wash my hair, because it's very cleansing and it's moisturizing at the same time, and it's natural, 100% natural, okay? And usually I buy it from somebody black, so you're supporting a black business. So anyway, so black soap and to wash conditioner, I really don't use a lot of conditioner, because I use, like, coconut oil to moisturize anyway. But if I were to do like a co wash instead of washing my hair, just do a co wash with conditioner I use, I think it's nature's gate, which is a natural brand, nature's gate, and can find it like health food stores. And I used to use some things that had a lot of biotin in them, because I thought that would help my hair grow and whatnot. But now I'll just use something that I know is very soothing and natural, and then, you know, to moisturize after that. Like I said, 100% raw organic coconut oil on my skin, I mean, on my scalp and on the hair itself, because I know that's not going to clog my pores. It's not going to be weighing my hair down. It's still going to provide a shine to the hair, and some provide nutrients to the hair as well. So I use that as far as like if I have irritated scalp or something put on my scalp, aloe vera I used to do like flax seed oil or flax seed gels. I make my own flax seed gels. I do make my own products, like my own infused oils. So I infuse herbs into oils. If I feel like I have, like, little bit of dangerous coming coming up, I do an herbal hair rinse. So I make up a herbal hair rinse with like sage, rosemary, horsetail, calendula, nettle. Those are all awesome herbs for your hair, and I can put those in the chat if anybody wants to know about those. But I use I make a hair rinse. So basically, taking those herbs together, boiling them or really infusing them in some water. And what you do is put the herbs into put the herbal infusion or tea in a big bowl, okay, and then put your head underneath a in the bathtub or the sink with another bowl down. Okay, pour the herbal infusion onto your hair, moisture, you know, really rubbing it into your hair, into your scalp, letting it fall into the other bowl and catch it and then continue, just repeat that over and over again. So that's your hair rinse. And so that really helps too, with like strengthening your hair and the follicles if you have gray hair, if you have some gray hair, the sage actually helps with darkening the gray hair. So there's herbs that can be used to help to darken the gray hair. So all of you out there. We want to get rid of those little pieces. Try some stage to do a sage rinse at least, you know, do it a few times to see if that helps with the dark and gray hair. So those are some things that I use, all very natural, nothing really expensive and out there. So
no, that's good. I know some of the things that that I heard you mention it also. That's been mentioned on the show and in the chat tonight are coconut oil, castor oil, aloe vera, sage, rosemary, a few other things, but those are the things that that are still in my mind now and then the question and I'll ask you as well. And if you have some more in the chat, then please do type it in, what are some of your favorite hair care products. So you talked about some of the ones you make. Are there some that are, you know, on the market that is just like, Yes, this is my stuff. Oh, thank you for that nettle. Oh, Jennifer, thank you for putting that say Rosemary net nettle and horsetail.
You can make an herbal rinse out of the hair, rinse. The products that I know were always good for me were, I use Giovanni sometimes a lot. So Giovanni, they make shampoos, conditioners. They also made, like this, really nice, gosh, what is it called? It's kind of like a not a gel, but it's if you want to stick back your side or your edges. It's a really nice isn't? They're all natural too. They 100% natural stuff, even though they have they look like they're not really natural. They look like they're more salon based, but they're all all natural. And so if you look for what I what I did, how I learned to get into making my own products was, I would take the back of like a Giovanni product, and the ingredients there anything that I recognize, I would buy myself and put it together in a formula, or in a, you know, I'll make it myself, and I would make it with a shea butter base or a coconut oil base or olive oil base, or I'll do all Three, okay, and just mix it together and use those herbs, and use the aloe vera and the, you know, flax seed or whatever, and make my own products. And, like someone said earlier, trial and error, you know, is it clogging your pores? For me, was kind of too clogging for me, especially when I was using when I had locks, my locks would be too sticky, basically. So you have sticky lock, what happens, you know, all the dirt and stuff, yeah, just soup right to your locks, yeah. So the shea butter was not for me. I had to go to coconut oil route. And that might not be good for some people, because if you have a softer coral pattern. Cultural oil might be too slippery and soft for you, so you might need something else. So just Yeah, trial and error. But I like Giovanni products to answer your question too. So
who says yes? Five your own product? She says yes, that's exactly how you start building your product knowledge. I So, Jennifer, some of the other products that were mentioned in the chat is as I am, Shea Moisture. Giovanni has been mentioned as well as Avino. And one of the things that you mentioned, that I appreciate is that there are some things that I think that work better depend on your natural hair style, right? Like, there are certain products that I wouldn't use, having lots that I would use if I had, if my hair was loose, just, I don't want, you know, the build up and all of these and spaces that that I'm not able to get into. Um, one of the things that I want to ask you about is we're talking about natural hair, and we're talking about natural products and all of these things and herbs. How much? And I want Angela also please do answer this while you're in the chat. Let me try to see if I can still, still can't, Nope, still can't. Get you one. Um, me too. I It's never, I have no idea what's going on tonight. Um, how much does what you eat and what you drink impact your hair, your skin and your nails? Talk a little bit about that. Yes,
yes, yes. That's my big area. That's what I help my clients to understand, that everything that you put into your body, including your energy, including your your your emotions and your thoughts and all that, it reflects back out. So I have my my business, and I'll just say it really quickly. I won't try to plug myself too much, but my business is called Beauty, or beauty and bloom, or beauty and bloom. And so I'm an herbalist and a physiologist, and so I use natural and holistic remedies and ways to help women to rediscover their true feminine beauty. And I talk a lot, or I teach basically about digestion and reductive health to women. And so I have two master's degrees, one in biology, one in physiology. And so I basically have merged the scientific approach with natural. Approach and and so, and I've become basically a spiritual herbalist. And so everything that you're just so right about that is that the things that you put in your body, the the water intake, the food you put in, it's all going to reflect back your physiology. It basically responds to everything that you eat and everything, all the energy that you take into your body. And so if you want to have long, beautiful, thick, amazing hair that has no problems, you don't have itchy scalp, you have to get your diet in order, and you have to take in fluids in your body. You cannot be dehydrated. Your hair is going to suffer. And the same goes with skin. The same goes with, you know, weight loss, or whatever it has to be, all in balance there. So, yeah, so water intake very important for your hair, especially if you're going to a salon to have your hair hair done. Because a lot of times, for me, and this is seems so trivial, a lot of times going to a salon, you feel like, okay, they're going to take care of everything. If you go regularly, you know, you feel like it's in their hands, but it's really in your hands too. You have to do the work at home. You have to get your nutrients and water intake, because they're not going to tell you a lot of times, unless you have a good you know hairdresser, they're not going to tell you how your hair is doing. They're just going to fix your hair right. So you have to do a due diligence to make sure your hair is staying healthy, and diet is a main thing. So hat for me, I tell my clients, 50% of your body weight should be rock and water, okay? Or or about one gallon of water. I, for me, I do two liters, two liter, two liter bottle of water. That's how much you
should buy day, which is a lot.
I mean, it's not really a lot, but, yeah. But a good way to do it is do like, lemon water. You have some flavor, you know, you're getting a lot of water in I do, like, you know, four or five of these, and then drinking water, you know, every meal, drinking water as soon as you wake up in the morning, if you take, like, baths and you go swimming, or if you do anything where your body is going to release a lot of water, exercise make sure you're replenishing that that will help your hair grow. And of course, like with diet, getting a lot of leafy greens, that's chlorophyll is going to help your skin glow. It's going to help your hair grow. Really important. And I can go on day for days talking about that.
So one of the things that I'm hearing also, and we're seeing also in the chat, is water, water and more water. Water is the best moisturizer I miss two or three times a day. Angela says, as a hair loss specialist, you would be surprised how many people I see whose issues are related to nutrition, I'm sure. Alright. Question, how do you guys feel about hair growing pills such as hair affinity? Hmm, I don't know what hair affinity is, but just a hair growing that just doesn't sound right to me. No, yeah,
nutrition is the hair pill. Yeah, I mean leafy greens and lots of vegetables, is the hair peel, because that is, that is the nutrient that you need to grow your hair. I mean chlorophyll, protein. I mean that stuff is what your hair is growing from. And every single cell in your body has to have that. And so why would your hair be any different? You know, you got to have those nutrients for your body to function properly, and your hair is no different from anything else.
Um, more discussions on drinking shatonia says, I love lemon or cucumber water, and says, I love you so infused in the water is the best. What is lemon water?
Oh, yeah.
Quirk play says she must try lemon water. Yes, do it. I also noticed too, because, okay, so this, this, what I'm about to say, is not good nutritionally, and it is not good for your hair. All right, I drink coffee. As a coffee drinker, one of the things that I've learned is when I have days where I substitute lemon water for my first drink in the morning, it energizes me. I know what I'm thinking. I probably think it is a placebo, but I'm telling you, my body knows the difference, and it's it definitely, it absolutely energizes me. And I also, anytime I go out, I tend to always get lemon water if I'm going out to eat, especially,
right? And yeah, the coffee. I just wrote a blog post about coffee and how I stay entered is the blog post name. Is how stay energized without drinking coffee. I don't ever drink coffee because I don't like it really, but coffee, yeah, it does bring you down rating, yeah, yeah. It actually, you know, it picks you up because it's a very strong stimulant. It is actually an herb, you know. So it's a plant. It's a natural thing, but it has a hits your adrenal glands very hard, gives you a boost of energy, and then crashes you, just like sugar does. And so you can't sustain a full day off of coffee, and it is detrimental, yeah, to your dehydrator gets you dehydrated. It is like the anti hot water, yeah. Basically, sugar is too. Sugar D is dehydrating too. So gotta cut the sugar if you want to have you know all the all we need
tell me is there before I let you go, and I want to give as well as Angela, opportunity to let people know how they could get swift with you. And what I say for Swift is, how can they connect with you? On Snapchat, your website, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, oh, cool. I like that. Probably be something different tomorrow. Who knows? I might have to say Swifty. I might have to add YouTube in there some type of way. Yeah. So I want, before we get to that part, what I want to know from you, what is it that you wish everyone who is either has natural hair and is taken care of. What is something that you want to make sure they leave with tonight, or if they are thinking about it, what is something that you feel like they should know
if you are thinking about going natural, take away any and everything that you have heard, even the stuff that we said today. I mean any and everything go within, go with your gut. Go within yourself. You know, if you even have the slightest notion that you want to do it, do it for yourself. Don't do it for anything else. Don't do it for you know, people you see that it's a trendy thing. Don't do it for all people making money on YouTube, and you want to make money too. Don't do it for those reasons. Do it because you look beautiful within you, within yourself, and you want to be confident with your natural hair that grows right your head, you know. And you can do it. And so that if you have that mentality and that mindset, you will be happy with your natural hair forever. You won't ever want to go back. Because a lot of people go natural, and they're just like, why do that? They don't know why they did it. And then they end up going back to relax a lot of times. And, you know, I say, you know, if you have that notion, just believe in it for yourself and do it for yourself, because you want you want it, and then you'll be more like you, like I said before, invested in it, and more connected to it. And you to your hair and love it even more. For people who are natural right now, just keep doing what you're doing. You are great. You're beautiful. You are inspiring other women and other people. Yes, yes. You are amazing. Rock your natural hair be beautiful, you know, encourage other women, especially this is for both women. Encourage other people to to go natural as well be as natural as you possibly can be. Get the nutrients that's going to help your hair grow by eating a healthy diet. I say plant based diet because I'm plant based. But, you know, do as best you can with your natural hair. Get the water nutrients, don't let people touch all in your hair and stuff. Do, you know, be, be strong within your natural beauty. That's all
that's good. I want to share one of the commonly, and I kind of touched on it earlier, common misconceptions about natural hair. And Jennifer, I love to hear what some of the common misconceptions you've dealt with. One of the ones is that like, there's like, you're limited. If you have here you are so like that that you are, you are restricted. Yeah, I have had several style I also get my hair. It's been a quite a few different colors. Yeah, you know, this gets curled up. Girl also. I mean, with this particular it's also easy. It doesn't take me a whole lot to decide on it, like this. I could find a way to manipulate this, and this would be a style, right? You're not limited in your options. I think sometimes we think we're limited in options because we're just so used to seeing hair done one way, right? Like, how can I get that? And maybe you won't be able to get you know that particular style. But there are some things that you could do with your hair naturally that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Why? Why?
And I think people think that they have to start with a very short fro, which you kind of you don't. I mean, you can't let your hair grow and grow and grow and grow until you ready to cut. Off the, you know, the relaxer into where you have a nice big for all the one that you, you know, saw in a magazine somewhere, so that can be your the way that you transition out. It doesn't have to be the scary thing for you. I mean, I don't know where that comes from, but it is an underlying fear that people have that they're going to look like such and such. And that doesn't have to be the case either. I mean, and a lot of people think that they're gonna look a certain way. They end up looking fantastic, you know, with that hair, and they just don't see it, because they have been brainwashed, basically by our society to thinking that long hair is more beautiful. So, yeah, I mean, a lot of people are, you know, awakening, and I think we can continue that momentum. And so, yeah, any, any, any and every style, I think, is, you know, at least reachable to the point where you can be comfortable with it. So, yeah, you there's plenty of things out there for people who want to go that route. So, right
and so, so, there, right there. So there are options. And also, again, another thing that I hear is my it won't look like it look cute on you, but it won't like now, like the hair you like, literally, like, sometimes I'm like, do you hear yourself? So what you're saying is, yeah, hair that naturally grows, grows out of your out of your scalp, right on you. Right now. Um, Plutonia says her biggest issue with natural hair is that it is so time consuming. I gotta tell you, Tonya, it is, it is sometimes drying. I gotta tell you, I don't do a lot with this. Yeah, I don't. That's a misconception,
yeah. And I think, I think people like for me, I spent a lot of time on my hair when I first became natural, because I was just so new, so new to me. But then now I don't do anything. Once you get comfortable in it, it's like, that's your hair, and it's gonna do what it wants to do. You can make it look beautiful. You can spend a lot of time on if you want to, but if you don't, it's still gonna look beautiful because it's so connected and so ingrained in you now that it's just like it just, I don't know, I don't even know how to explain it. I guess it's something you just have to experience and take our word for. But it's, it's amazing how you know your hair will just flow if you let it, if you let it flow. Uh,
Angela says, know that your hair and nails are your body's biggest cheerleader. It is changes, good and bad. That's not like your hair. Snitch, um,
I love that. I'm still that
on within your body, because it is always going through a growing cycle. It's It's sensitivity is a major communicator, right? And I guess this other response is, when I took down my hair, she says, Oh, girl, look at it. That hair is getting so long. So Angela is actually the first person that, when I first started, Sister locks after I did my so when I first started they I just had about maybe this much hair, I don't know maybe about that much. And what I did is I put it in some tiny, tiny braids, actually. So at the end of these are like itty bitty braids, and when I first needed it, sister lock or interlocked what have you. Angela is who I went to simple wellness day spot in Baltimore, Maryland. It has been retightening pretty much ever since. So tell me, Jennifer, a misconception, and then let everybody know how they can connect, connect with you. How can they get in contact? And while she's doing that, Angela, you go ahead and write how people could connect with you, and I will read that.
Okay, you want to do a misconception first, yeah, misconception first. Mm, hmm. Okay, so I think we kind of already, you know, said something else. Want to say, Yeah, but basically, you know, just that you won't look the way that you think you'll look, or you want to look, but you will, because it will just naturally flow with with your, with your whole persona, you know, because a lot of people, I mean, you can do a lot of stuff. Like I said, before I had my back of my hair shaved, I would have never thought that I would shave my head. Like, never in a million years. I was some little southern black girl from South Carolina. You don't shave your hair. So, you know, you can do and experiment with your hair so much that, you know, there's nothing that's holding you back, like who was telling you? I mean, the society is there, but you have the power to do whatever you want. If you step into that power, you can just, you know, love it and whatever. But the misconceptions are there, you know, with not looking a certain way or whatnot. So let all that go. Like I said earlier. Do you be you? You're beautiful no matter what. How to find me. So I am at your beauty and bloom.com. That's my website. Your beauty and bloom.com. I'm on Twitter as mind body bloom and I'm on Facebook, Jennifer, I'm at. Jennifer Hutchison, so that's my I'm. Um, my name on on Facebook. Jennifer Hutchison, I can type that in too, and you can find me. I have a page there, your body, your beauty in bloom, and that's my website. And also have Instagram and your beauty and bloom and all of that. So check me out. I'm on there. So if you want to know more about you know, medicinal herbs, if you want to know about nutrition, if you want to know about mindset, affirmations, visualizations, stuff like that, to really take you to the next level in holistic health. And that's, that's me.
So you're in your body and bloom everywhere, except for Facebook, for Twitter.
Yeah, and I'll type my my Facebook name
and so Angela beard party of simple wellness day spa, wasn't able to get on tonight because we have technical difficulties with our software. But I'll try to see if I can get you guys both on, because this was really good. Um, so simple wellness day spa, the number is 410483, well, or 410-483-9355, on Facebook. She is simple wellness, day spa, the website, website. The website is day spa, sw.com, and she also has within that a hair or more hair loss clinic that is also within the day spa. And Jennifer Hutchinson is Jennifer Hutchinson on Facebook, on Instagram, she is your beauty in bloom. And the website is your beauty in bloom.com. And feel free to call Angela directly at 443-622-5026, if you have any other hair questions or anything related to that, this is the counter narrative. I am Rasheem. I can be reached on Twitter. S Rasheem, Instagram, s Rasheem. And if you're nosy like me, and you like to see what's going on in people life, so you look, look at people's Snapchat, then I am s dot rushing. And you can get all up in my business and see what I'm doing on each day, my YouTube channel is also s dot Rasheem. So most places, if you put in s Rasheem or S dot Rasheem, you'll find me. If you are watching this, and you also want to know how to get more shows and see more I'm on fire, talk fire, talk com, forward slash Rasheem. Or you can actually just go to s Rasheem com, see all the shows, all the replays, or go to YouTube. Thank you so much for being here. Jennifer, I appreciate I got so we have to do this some like, what I gotta like, all of the other stuff that you were into, sounds so good in terms, you know what I mean, like, inbox, all right. Thank you so much also for being here, even though we couldn't get you in if you are still here in the chat room right now, just say hi real quick so I can shout you out. I like doing roll call and shout out. Thank you for being here. I so do appreciate you very much. Angela, thank you again for being here. Jennifer, I appreciate you. Let me go up. Joelle, thank you for providing so much good information in terms of your questions that you asked, sharing your experiences workplace. I appreciate you for being here. Who else? Who else? Shatonia, workplace. And there's probably oh and Crystal Lee. There's probably some other people who don't want to necessarily say anything, but I appreciate you, and this has been another episode of the counter narrative. Good night, everybody. Peace. You.