Introduction: Welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse, a podcast
dedicated to promoting financial literacy to firefighters.
I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,
and also a certified financial planner.
With me, I have the other co-host of the fiscal firehouse, Louis Barella, executive
Board member of Local 1309 ambulance driver, and want to be financial expert.
Together, John and I hope to bring clarity to the world of personal finance,
specifically relating to firefighters.
Firefighting is a difficult job making sound.
Financial decisions shouldn't be.
Intro Part 2: In today's episode of the fiscal Firehouse, John and Louis
will continue to discuss the defined benefit pension Plan administered
through the Fire and Police Pension Association, also known as FPPA.
In part two of today's episode, John and Louie will discuss
different retirement options.
Offered through the defined benefit plan, specifically focusing on deferred
retirement, the drop plan, also known as the deferred retirement option plan, and
also discussing the survivorship options associated with the defined benefit plan.
Without further ado, let's kick it over to local 1309 studios and the
recording of the fiscal firehouse.
Jon: Welcome back to another episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.
I'm your co-host John Beatty with me as always.
And is Michigan Attire Louis Barella lb.
How's it going today, buddy?
Louie: Good man.
Tournament's about to start
Jon: tournament.
Louie: Don't have high hopes for Michigan, but that's all right.
Jon: What's their, what's their seating, what's their ranking?
Louie: we are a six seed.
Jon: Oh, okay.
Number six.
All right, so that's not terrible.
I think old Scott's got number three and they're actually, both of our
teams are playing here in Denver.
But, we are committed to the fiscal firehouse and we're out here doing it.
Louie: First things first.
First
Jon: first.
We didn't, we didn't have the money though, 'cause we made bad financial
decisions to afford those tickets.
So, you know what, maybe that is the one really good piece of financial advice
we should give on what is probably the number one gambling holiday of
the whole year, besides maybe the Super Bowl is, how to do parlays.
Parlays.
Louie: Parlays.
Dude.
Oh my gosh.
I, you know what we have, I.
I, I don't know about you John, but I get a lot of people that will rove
through threes or, I'm interacting at training or whatever with them.
And they're like, Hey, when are you gonna do the crypto episode?
When are you gonna do the sports betting account?
I had a, I had our old friend from, from B Shift, Jackson Wagner was like, Hey,
I, do you even need a checking account if you just have a sports betting app?
that's just where I just keep my money.
Jon: Yeah.
When is my mortgage start gonna be taken outta
Louie: The old, the old one B is pretty degenerate, man.
Those guys are
Jon: oh, those are,
Louie: it's, it's worth it to do 24 hours with them just to see how they live.
It is,
Jon: yeah.
If you want to
Louie: It gives me heartburn just being there.
Jon: Yeah, they were, they were at the pinnacle of one, the GameStop, the meme
mania if you want, and all the things that went right and wrong with that.
Louie: The epicenter.
Jon: The epicenter.
The epicenter.
So yeah.
So just, the full disclosures, if you are going to bet, bet responsibly, I.
Don't, don't mortgage anything that you don't have and enable to, to, to lose.
So, but it's just become, I mean, so prominent though, it's amazing,
like people that I would've never thought that were, betting.
It just, it's become so, I don't even say like culturally
acceptable, it's just a thing.
Like a lot of people do it because it keeps them more interested in watching
sports and, if that's your source of entertainment and you like to do that, by
all means just, be responsible about it.
Please, we don't want to have any further, further issues with that.
So you don't wanna give a shout out to the CPFF.
they got us, a little advertisement.
so we've actually had a lot more increase in listenership if you will, from a
lot of different locals in the area.
So, welcome everyone, if this is new to you.
we're super excited about it.
We've had a lot of good feedback from other locals like, man, this is great.
This is totally applicable to what our members want.
We do it in some form or fashion, but the way that you guys are
doing it, it's really appreciated.
So really big shout out to all you guys and if you guys want.
More thoughts or how we're gonna proceed with this, by all means, you
know, how to get ahold of us as always.
But
Louie: Yeah.
So speaking of,
Jon: of
Louie: not keeping your money in a
Jon: in a DraftKings account,
Louie: book account, that leads us to our money saving tip of the week.
And here's, here's the truth, everyone listening to this, we
are not gonna be able to beat what John brought you guys last that
we got so much positive feedback.
That's probably gonna be the lasting legacy of the fiscal firehouse is, how
to get money back from, the government.
Yeah, the unclaimed property, money back.
We don't have anything that sexy today, but it's something that we
think you should consider because it could save you a lot of money, over
the course of a year or numerous years.
And that's banking.
So, I would, we would encourage people, we wanna encourage people to look
at their banking options and see who they're banking with and see if you
have better options available to you.
A lot of people will go with one of the big.
Mega banks like Chase or Wells Fargo.
And the truth about that is they, they charge you a lot of fees.
They have a lot of fees for, different things, not meeting minimum requirements,
overdraft fees, just things like
Jon: administrative fees, they just Yep.
Nickel and
Louie: yeah.
And there are way, way better options there.
And I would say, for, for brick and mortars, if you need an actual place
where you need to go in and deposit cash or do business with, I don't
think you can beat a credit union.
I think credit unions are better than Chase, better than Wells
Fargo, better than Bank of America.
I would set up a.
an accountant with a credit union, they generally have no fees, no minimums.
they let you do free transfers, and they give you really good customer service.
And that's something that is lacking from the big boys.
Those big boys are just so, overburdened with complaints and
customer service issues that you are not gonna get the same level of service
as if you go into a credit union.
I know we at West Metro use Foothills Credit Union.
Yeah.
we have a deal with them, to give you a really good, kickback if you're a new guy.
So if you are mm-hmm.
So if you are a new guy, you get a little cash back bonus and that could save you.
That's, I think that's a hundred dollars, either
Jon: 50 or a hundred.
I'd have to confirm with Reid what that is.
But it's, it literally is free money.
There's no strings attached.
it's just something if you open up account with them, they just
start that initial deposit.
Yeah.
I feel like it might be 50 bucks, but I'll have to double check with Reid.
But nonetheless, whether it's 50 or a hundred dollars, that's literally free
money for having an account opened up.
Louie: Absolutely.
And then I'll, I'll open the kimono a little bit and just tell you what I
do just with my own personal banking.
So I have a credit union account that I use to do actual
in-person, personal banking, but, from a face-to-face business.
and I have that credit union account.
And then I also have an online account.
And the cool thing about the online savings account and online bank accounts
is that they generally offer a much, much higher interest rate, on your
savings than you can get otherwise.
So, I was with Capital One, for my banking because they're an online only bank.
actually back east they do have brick and mortars, but in general, for the,
for the nation, they do online banking.
And I think that my savings rate with them was like about 3.8%
Jon: Mm-hmm.
Louie: something like that, which is a great return on, on uninvested savings.
and right now I've, I've consolidated everything.
I was on a.
Mission last year to put everything under one umbrella.
And I went with Fidelity 'cause I think they're a really, really good, firm.
And they have a cash management account, which is, like a checking
and savings account combined in one.
And so I earn about 4% on my cash with fidelity.
So the vast majority of my.
Money is with Fidelity earning about 4%, which is awesome.
On my, checking slash savings account.
They do free checks, they do, unlimited ATM reimbursements, which is awesome.
Any A TMI go to, even if I'm in Vegas at three in the morning at a casino,
which I would never be, but if I were and I needed to withdraw cash, they
would not, they would reimburse any fees that, that ATM charges me as well.
So they don't charge fees and if I have to spend $6 at an ATM, they
would reimburse those as well.
So yeah, free checks, free ATM reimbursements worldwide.
which is awesome.
And yeah, it's just a way, way better option.
Some of those monster mega banks, they charge you for using someone else's
ATMs, they will charge you for checks.
So we would encourage you guys to look at better banking options.
And those were just a couple off the top of my head.
Jon: Yeah, no, that's great.
It sounds like we bank similarly where I have a local bank, it's the,
it's a local credit union, right?
Actually it's the Denver Federal Credit Unions where I set up shop.
and they've always been very good customer service and definitely have more of that,
personalized experience, which is great.
So, really the credit union is more of a tie to the local community.
and what, what the local IFF affiliates are all about is like
supporting local businesses.
So whenever we do anything through the union, we always go to someone
that's got local ties and not to chain restaurants and everything else like that.
'cause it's important to us to support our community.
And that's really what you're investing in, is you're investing in the community
when you bank with the credit union.
'cause that's where the majority of the members come from.
And when they're giving out loans, it's the local businesses and everything else.
And it just keeps that, that, ecosystem if you will, local.
And that's what we're.
all about from, obviously being a, a local member.
So, all good.
And yeah, I can't, can't highlight enough though.
There's a ton of different online banks and savings accounts
and all those other things.
So if you got some cash dashed away, you can definitely get a little
bit more, return on that, on that investment by just keeping it there.
So we'll leave it some, short and simple on that one.
that does, as soon as you're starting to talk about checks, I'm like,
man, Louie, we're getting old, dude.
I know.
No one else is.
Like, when was the last time you wrote a check?
but to that point, we are going to, we've gotten actually some feedback.
credit cards are obviously a topic of conversation a lot around the firehouse.
people are into different rewards points and travel and all these other things.
So we're gonna Designate a, an episode to the credit cards, right?
And just how to use 'em responsibly.
But if you do use 'em responsibly, there are some additional benefits that you
can get if, if you use 'em appropriately.
So I know that was something that a lot of people are always scheming
on, in ways to just take advantage of, being responsible, having a
good credit history, all that stuff.
So there'll be more to come as far as the, credit card game.
Louie: We'll talk about airport lounges and rewards
Jon: rewards, churning like all the, all the buzzwords, right?
Episode that will be a fun episode.
But, so that's our quick little hit on just how to, once again, keep a little
ching in your pocket so to speak.
but we did, you know, with the Colorado great payback,
making people aware of that.
So far what I've heard the leading the person at the leaderboard, 2,800 bones
is what they got coming back to 'em.
So we just asked for a drink.
I don't know what
Louie: I know, man.
Jon: that's gonna be a Macallans 12 year or
Louie: some nice whiskey.
Jon: there's been, another one that I heard of was like a thousand bucks.
So, yeah, once again, if you didn't listen to the previous episodes, if
you're in Colorado, the great Colorado payback is what you want to Google, and
it's basically a way that you can get unclaimed property that is rightly yours.
They just have a way to find you to disseminate it and, let us know.
Send us a, send us a line on, on who's gonna be the winner of that one.
So.
We'll get rolling here.
this is part two of the, pension episode.
Part one, just rehashing what we covered in part one.
Part one was really all about, just generally speaking,
how does the pension work,
How do you get your, benefits?
How are they, calculated?
How are they accrued?
How is it funded?
all the building blocks, if you will, of the pension.
Yeah.
So now, episode number two is gonna be into some of the nuance stuff,
and that's more talking about like the deferred option, the drop plan,
survivorship options, all the other nuanced stuff that goes with that.
full disclaimer.
With all this stuff, with FPPA specifically, always reach out to
them directly for the most accurate information, We're just giving you general
overview stuff, just how we know that the plan is facilitated and what kind
of, what the plan brochures state, but really when you're talking about your
individual situation, reach out to them.
'cause they can run the most accurate calculations,
Louie: And they're pretty good about that.
They like to help, they like to run numbers for you and let you know
what your benefit would be, what your options are for early retirement.
Yeah,
Jon: they're awesome for retirement and they do, they love coming out to
the stations and doing their sites visits and all that other stuff.
So, and really before you make any decisions, obviously you consult with
FPPA, but then also consult with, if you have a financial planner or
advisor, you wanna make sure that you basically have one chance to do it right?
Yeah.
You want 'em to just make sure that you have all the information and
that you're making the best, educated decision that you have based on
the information that you currently
Louie: And if you are a younger, firefighter here, we would
encourage you or just a younger firefighter in Colorado in general.
this is gonna be a really good episode to listen to because we'll talk about, how
to set yourself up so that you might defer your pension and let it grow that way.
Or, how you can plan to do the drop or whatever.
We'll talk about some of those strategies and trade-offs and stuff like that too.
So this is good to consider as you're not only building your pension, but
hopefully building your 4 57, your IRA, and your other savings, to give you some
really cool options with your pension as you get closer towards retirement.
Jon: Perfect.
so maybe we will start with, you wanna start with deferred
or you want to go drop first?
Louie: do deferred.
Jon: We'll start with the deferred plan.
Yeah.
Louie: Yeah.
So, deferred retirement, everything we've been talking about before, this was for
like a normal retirement, but FPPA gives you the option to defer your pension.
And what that means is on the day you retire, if you want, you can
take your pensionable amount, you can get your pensionable amount.
we talked about that chart, that kind of shows you what you would be eligible for.
However, FPPA will let you, forego your pension for.
Years.
And by doing that they give you a higher pensionable amount.
So if you qualify for a normal retirement or a vested retirement, you
can delay when you collect benefits.
And by doing so, you would increase on an actuarial basis, you would increase your
pensionable amount, so that it's higher.
And this is, this is not, a hard and fast rule, but in general, if you just
wanted to do some napkin math, for every year you delay, you would get about 8.5
to 9% increase to your pensionable benefit amount.
so that's cool.
just giving a quick example of what that would look like.
Let's say you have been a fiscal firehouse listener from day one and
you have a bunch of 4 57 and Roth IRA money that you can live on.
And that is like a strong.
pillar of your financial plan, and you get to the point where you're
gonna retire and you say, you know what, I can, retire now I'm at the
rule of 80 and I can get about 57.5%
of my three highest year salary.
but because I have so much cash, so much investments, I wanna live on those
for a few years and I want to delay when I take my pension by three years.
if you do that, you would get about, 35% more in your pensionable amount than you
would if you took it the day you retired.
Correct.
Which is a pretty cool option,
Jon: is great.
Yeah, it just gives, it gives, the membership a little bit more flexibility
in how they want to do, retirement income in the future and how they,
it just gives them more options as far as controlling taxes and some of
the other things that are associated with that as soon as you retire.
So, I think, I mean, it'd be interesting.
I would love to talk to FPPA.
Like it'd be really good to get some data as far as, the average
person that retires, do they take, just take normal retirement?
Do they do the drop plan, which we'll talk about here in a minute.
Do they do deferred retirement?
I would really love to, I'm curious myself just to see what that looks like.
I'm guessing like.
Anecdotally speaking, I think the majority of people probably take normal retirement,
so as soon as they retire, they start taking that monthly income stream.
But it would be really interesting to see, just numbers wise, what that looks like.
So maybe Lou and I will reach out to FPPA and see if we can get some facts.
More than anything else.
Just curious about
Louie: just some stats.
Yeah, some stats
Jon: to help support that.
So, yeah, the deferred retirement though, this is one honestly that we
get asked a lot, differentiating between that and then the drop plan, which
we'll talk about here in a minute.
But, the deferred retirement though, I'll.
Put myself in the, the case study, if you will.
And this is something that I am gonna look at doing.
So, just because, we've been, my wife and I have been pretty aggressive
savers and have got some monies coming in, or we will have monies available
to tap as far as the 4 57 and some taxable accounts and other stuff.
it's a way that we can honestly help keep us in the lower, income bracket
when I retire, when I defer and not take this monthly income, which will
actually help with healthcare subsidies.
And there's a lot of other reasons that you want to keep yourself in a lower
tax bracket as soon as you retire.
because we're also gonna do some Roth
Louie: conversion ladder.
I knew you were gonna say that,
Jon: that we're gonna do, which we will, honestly, it's, it's
a little bit more complicated.
So that's not the intent of today's episode, but we will talk more about
when it's appropriate to consider maybe doing some Roth conversion.
So that's definitely a strategy that we're going to implement.
so there's just a lot more flexibility that you have.
With this.
so it's just something to be mindful of, just understand how it works.
So if you understand social security, which we talked about in
a previous episode, the deferred retirement is very similar.
So, social Security says that for most people, full retirement age is 67, so that
would be normal retirement age, right?
the deferred option is very similar, like delaying social security and we
know that if you delay social security every year, you basically get another
8% per year every year to defer.
And this is all math, As Louis said, this is all actuarial based.
That's all it is.
It's just moving around numbers, life expectancy, ages.
So it's just a kind of a complex math problem.
So we'll put the chart up on the Instagram post maybe just so, as a
reference point as you guys are deciding.
And, nothing really locks you in.
The only thing is, I believe, if I'm not wrong, is buy 65.
You have to start taking it right, Louis?
So if you retired at 55.
So you could delay.
I mean, if you had a huge bank, then you could delay up for 10 years and
you're talking some serious cabbage.
So what is it?
I'm just looking at the chart right now.
240%?
Louie: of your pensionable amount
Jon: So if I retired at 55 and I delayed for 10 years, it would
be instead of a hundred percent of my benefit, I would get 240%.
That's
Louie: which is pretty sweet.
That's
Jon: chunk of
Louie: a, that's a big pension.
That's a big pension.
But you, but you've given up 10
Jon: 10 years of getting those monthly draws.
So it's all it looks really good on paper, but you gotta do the math too.
And there's a lot of, Excel spreadsheets that you can do this.
And that's basically more or less with FEPA has, it's just a fancy spreadsheet
that they calculate this and they give you all the different options.
So, and they are very good at running these analysis for you.
and it's always good, obviously, the closer to retirement you are, the more
accurate these projections are gonna be.
so take that with a grain of salt.
Right now when we were looking at our salaries and you still got 15 years
to work, this is probably gonna look a little bit differently, but that is what
the, deferred retirement is all about.
Anything else you want to chat on that?
Louie: No, I think, we'll rehash maybe after we talk about the drop, but,
that is what deferred retirement is.
Jon: Perfect.
another thing that is super popular with the, with firefighters
and FPPA specifically is this concept of the drop plan.
That's how most people talk about it.
So it is the deferred retirement option plan.
So once again, it has deferred in there
Louie: know.
I hate, I hate that they use it 'cause it's the, it's the opposite
Jon: People get confused, right?
They're like, oh, okay, this is great.
So the deferred retirement option plan, AKA, the drop plan.
the way that I always explain it is basically as soon as you enter this
plan, more or less, the department says, thank you for your service.
You are now retired.
Like they, they're no longer, putting into your retirement contributions.
that's why most, employers really like the drop plan, the other.
Part of the drop plan is, is basically as soon as you enroll in the plan,
you sign a piece of paper with your employer, basically saying that you
are, are separating from service more or less because now on paper
you're more or less retired, right?
So they are no longer going to make those contributions or they might not
make those contributions on your behalf.
by signing that you basically have to cease employment within five years,
That's another reason why employers love it, like from a planning
perspective, they're like, okay, cool.
I know this person is in the drop plan.
I know within the next five years I'm gonna have to account for replacing that
person rather than other situations.
It just makes planning a little bit easier.
All right, so what happens is, so.
Once again on paper you're retired so you're no longer continuing
to accrue service credit.
So if I retire and I put myself in the drop plan, let's just
once again say 55, right?
So I've got 30 years of service and I'm 55 years old.
I'm now gonna enter the drop plan.
So I am no longer accruing any more service credit.
So my, my pension plan, my payments are gonna be based on that 30 years
of service and 55, which is 70%.
Alright?
it's account that is set up through FPPA through Fidelity,
It's a self-directed account.
So my money that my monthly pension check, rather than me receiving
it, I don't, I'm not gonna get it.
It's gonna go directly into that account, What else is, what else?
What else is going to go into the account?
Is what my.
Payments are to the pension.
So right now I'm at 14%.
That is can continue to go into the plan as
Louie: Your member
Jon: Your member, my member
Louie: is what they call that.
Jon: Yep.
Is gonna continue to go into the plan.
And then this
Louie: is into the drop
Jon: Into the drop account.
Into the drop account.
And then what has changed with legislation and FPPA within the last several years
is they are actually now allowing.
Certain, employers to continue to make that contribution on the member's behalf.
So the employer contribution can potentially also be going into that count.
Now, this is not for everyone, and to my knowledge, at least in our
area, I believe there's six-ish fire departments that currently have this
in their, in their plan documents.
And honestly, from a negotiation standpoint, this is a lot of commonly
negotiated items from the, those of you that have collective bargaining.
this is something that a lot of unions are starting to look at as
negotiating for their members as an enhanced benefit to the drop account.
So just to make things very clear, for right now, for West Metro folks, this does
not, this is currently not implemented,
You are not.
West Metro is not putting in money.
Employer contributions into your drop account.
This is potentially something down the road that could happen.
But I know for a lot of the north area fire agencies, a lot of them
have this in their contract and they are getting contributions from
the employer into the drop account.
So just something to be mindful of and a potential negotiating item.
Those of you that are listening from, from the union aspect of it, something
to consider for your membership.
Louie: Yeah.
So, just to simplify and make sure we are clear on this.
The, the day that you enter the drop, you basically stop, you freeze your
pensionable amount, that that pension amount is set for the rest of your
life, so that if it's 70% or 65% or whatever, it will stay at that forever.
You're retired from.
From A-F-P-P-A view.
So FPPA will take your pension and basically those pension checks, even
though you're still working at your department, they will start contributing
that pension check to your drop account.
And then you will also continue to get the, contribution, the member
contributions into that drop account.
And like John just said, some departments are even putting the employer
contributions into that drop account, and then that drop account grows.
That drop account is similar to a 4 57 or an IRA in the sense that you
get to choose how it's invested.
So you get to choose from an option, from a few different options for investments
and grow that account for the 1, 2, 3, 4, or five years that you're in the drop.
So, basically what you're doing in, in the simplest terms is you
are creating a, a pool of money.
You're creating a.
Cash pull of money, you think your pension benefit is gonna be high enough
that you're willing to freeze it at the point you enter the drop and instead
of increasing your pension benefit, you are increasing a cash amount.
So you do that hopefully by the end of the four or five years or however
long you're in the drop, you retire.
And then in addition to having your pension checks coming to
you, you will now also have a big pool of money that you can use.
You have the flexibility to use that to do whatever, pay off your
house or, buy a car, buy a boat, or travel, or do whatever you want.
You have this cash pull of money in addition to your pensionable amount.
So it's a cool way to, to create some cash savings in the last few
years leading up to retirement if you don't already have those.
Jon: Yeah, no, I think that's, well said.
And a good cleanup on that.
So who is, who is eligible for a drop account?
what does that look like from a criteria standpoint?
So in order to be eligible, you must be, Have normal retirement.
So at least 25 years of service and 55.
So once again, rule of 80, basically you have to hit the rule of 80, or
you have to be eligible for vested retirement, which is basically five to
24 years of service and the age of, 55.
and I honestly, we have a lot of members that are in the drop currently, so I,
Louie: I would say it's by far the more popular option versus deferring
Jon: Way more popular.
So I don't know this, both of these plans sound pretty great.
Louie, can you do both?
Can you be in the drop account but also defer retirement?
Is that something that you could do?
Louie: No, the answer to that, is no, you can't and they're,
they're, that's basically because they are the polar opposites.
Right.
Which leads to the question of, well then how do I know which one I should
do I, I get that question a lot.
I don't know if you do, but I,
Jon: a very
Louie: come to you and say, JB how do I know?
what do I, what do I use to determine whether or not I
should defer or if I should drop?
Yeah.
and that's a hard question to answer obviously, because
it's very individualistic.
but I always tell people, you should consider a few different
things when you're determining.
Whether or not you should drop or defer your retirement.
Some of those things to consider are how much cash and
other investments do you have?
If you have a really fat 4 57 and a really fat IRA because you've been
maxing those babies out, you might have enough cash that you don't need to drop.
You don't need to build that cash account.
and instead you might wanna say, well then I could live off of some
of this, these 4 57 and IRA, this IRA money and grow that pension.
So in that case, you would defer.
If you don't, if you, are late to saving in your 4 57 and IRA and you
don't have a lot of cash on hand or a lot of investments, then maybe you
should drop so that you can build up that cash account, build up those cash
equivalents, for when you retire, to have that pool of money to draw from.
So that's one thing to consider.
I would say, also you need to know how big your pensionable amount is.
If you, if you're at 57.5%
or 60% pension, is that enough?
Are you comfortable with that being your pension set when you enter the drop?
Or would you rather defer and see that amount grow by, like we said.
Eight and a half, 9% a year.
that's another thing to consider when you're determining between those two.
And then I would also say, and, and this is a harder one to qualify,
but I would say it's also important to look at market conditions.
And what I mean by that is let's say you're retiring this year, or you
are retiring, last year, since we know what that market looked like,
the market was at all time highs.
So that would've been a good time to say, Hey, I have a bunch of 4 57 and IRA money.
I'm going to sell some of it and live off of it for three years.
and in that sense, I'm selling high, which right.
We always talk about buying low and selling high in the investment community.
Well, in that case, you would be selling high and then you would be
able to live off of some of that.
Whatever, 4 57 IRA money and defer your pension in order so that it can
grow by that eight and a half or 9%.
on the flip side of that coin, if your, if the market is low, if you
happen to retire at a time when the market just, is in a recession, it
just dumped, it took a 20% nosedive.
Well, you don't, you might not wanna sell, you might not wanna sell low.
So in that case, maybe you should take your pension and, keep that
drop account or keep that, those other investments invested so that
you can wait till they recover and they can come back from the lows.
That's another thing to consider.
and the truth is though, you don't know what that's gonna be like
until you're about to retire.
Jon: You don't know.
And that's actually a good framework.
I've never really thought about it through that lens, from like the market
condition lens in, in choosing that option or, or thought, thought experiment
about, which one is a potential better.
something to be mindful of as well though once again, is as soon as you
enter the drop, right, so the deferred retirement option plan, you are now
basically locking in that pension amount.
And this is actually happening to someone that we all know very well
here, but, they are, they are in the drop plan and now they're recently
gonna get promoted to a chief, right?
Which is a pretty big step up in pay from what the captain
level is here at West Metro.
That money is not, they're not gonna get that pensionable amount
of money becoming a chief now 'cause it's your three highest years.
Right?
So now you'll continue to get that money as far as what the regular
salary is, but all the additional benefit of that, of having, the pension
plan, like you're capped out at what that, what that captain's wages were.
So if you're on one of those, fences where you're like looking to promote within the
last couple of years and you want to time it to where you basically, you just wanna,
be a captain or a chief for the last three years, you want your three highest years.
That is definitely something to be mindful of because that will change
the math as far as what you're defined benefit is gonna look like.
Because once you enter the trop, I, hopefully Lou and I have explained it
well enough, you're locking in what your pensionable amount is gonna be.
That is not, that is not gonna change, that is set in stone as
far as what your percentage is.
So, and it's gonna be off of that.
'cause now you are retired and it's not on what is.
Even though you're working, they don't calculate those salary years
anymore as part of the pension.
So a lot of, a lot of nuances with a lot of these things.
So we never say always, and we never say never.
and our favorite word is it depends, but I think Louis gave a really good
framework on potentially thinking whether or not, the deferred
retirement is your better option or the drop plan is your better option.
honestly, some of it comes down to age.
if you're a younger person and got hired younger and you can get to that rule of
80 pretty quickly, the drop plan might not be a bad idea 'cause you're still gonna
get outta here at a relatively young age.
Versus if you're not and you're going to deferred retirement and
you get, and you're, you're a little bit older, like that just changes.
And a lot of this too is we're talking about it from.
Just our perspective from the firefighter, you have to account for
what your family status looks like.
And if you're married, what that looks like if your spouse is employed, what
their career trajectory looks like, what kind of resources they have.
that's why it's a, a more complex situation.
And I wouldn't even say problem, just, any type of, financial thought should
have a holistic approach and not just try to look at one thing and oh,
on paper this makes the most sense.
'cause there's a lot of dominoes that come into effect
Louie: For sure.
Jon: But it's good.
So it's nice that we have that option and that they've enhanced that.
'cause that has not always been an option.
and the fact that it's up to five years is actually pretty generous.
I've seen other plans where it's three years.
so that five year runway, you can actually.
You can save up quite a bit of cash in that account.
Actually a lot of money.
And there's people that will leave here being like, man, I
never thought I would have that much money after just five years.
But it's basically 'cause you're with foregoing your your pension payments
'cause it's been going into this account.
So, just like with anything else.
So just be mindful of that and how you're investing that money into
that, into that self-directed fund.
I would just say holistically probably not being super aggressive because
you're only five years out, man.
And if you were planning on using that money anytime soon, I would say being
a hundred percent in equities, like that's pretty risky at that standpoint.
Like you could potentially have a lot of money, but you could potentially.
Not have a lot of money.
So always, always be, cognizant and, what that looks like from a, from,
An asset allocation standpoint.
So that is deferred retirement and that is, the drop plan.
So two of the most common things that we get asked about, 'cause they're similar,
but obviously they're different, and who does it make, the most sense for when you
should start to, start to consider that.
So now we've looked at it through the framework of okay, so we're just
talking about us, the member, and the benefits that potentially we could get.
Now we have to think about our family situation and what does that look like,
So what's really cool about our pension plan is, is there are survivorship and
once again, statistically speaking, it's more likely, the fire service is
male dominated, and males don't have.
Statistically speaking as much longevity as females do.
So as you're thinking about this, like the survivorship benefit is all about
once you pass away, what is your survivor?
Who you designate as your beneficiary to be your survivor?
what benefit potentially are they gonna get?
So there's several different options with the that.
so first and foremost, if you are not married or you do not have a spouse, or
you do not have someone that you wanted to designate as a beneficiary, you can just
take the regular full amount, if you will,
Louie: The single life
Jon: The single life benefit.
Yep.
So, and that will obviously be the highest amount.
'cause once again, from an actuarial standpoint, it's very easy to calculate
that just based on one life expectancy.
It gets a little bit more complex when you start looking at,
potential other life expectancies.
And that would be whatever your designated beneficiary are.
so that is just the single life benefit.
So when you look on the little brochure chart.
Right, and you calculate what it is.
So once again, we will, we'll make math very simple.
We'll say that we have a 55-year-old person who has got, 30 years of service.
they are going to get 70% of their benefit.
and we'll make it very easy.
We'll say the three highest years we're 70,000.
That is what the single life benefit is.
It's gonna be $70,000 and you just divide that by 12.
Your monthly benefit, that's the check you're gonna get.
That's if you have no survivorship options.
That's how that benefit chart reads.
When you look into the survivorship features, then
there is different multipliers based on what option you choose.
And that will, that will reduce what your pension amount is gonna be.
And obviously the higher you go percentage wise, the more that
multiplier is gonna take effect.
So the different, we'll just say right now, the different
survivorship options is 100%.
So your designated beneficiary would continue to get whatever pension
amount you have for the rest of not only your life, but also their life.
There's a new benefit that just got instituted this January, that's the
75% survivorship option, and then there is the 50%, survivorship option.
You wanna speak a little bit more on both of those breakdowns of that
Louie: So on, on, John said it right with the a hundred, with a hundred
percent option, your, spouse would get, or your beneficiary, generally
spouse, would get a hundred percent of your benefit upon your, death.
which is great if you're worried about your spouse's
financial security after you die.
similarly, the 75% option would give your spouse 75% of your
pensionable amount, upon your death.
And then the 50% option would give the spouse 50% upon your death.
And the, the, the thing that you're given up is, a certain
portion of your pensionable amount.
So we talked about determining your pensionable amount.
If you didn't have a sur, if you didn't have any survivorship options,
you would get a hundred percent of that pensionable amount if you chose.
Once again, just making it simple.
Let's say you retired at 55.
Let's say your your spouse is also 55, 'cause it matters on their age as well.
but let's say you're 55.
And your spouse is 55.
You guys were the, the same age.
Were high school sweethearts,
Jon: There you go.
Mm-hmm.
Louie: So if you wanted to give your spouse a 100% survivorship benefit,
meaning you die, and he or she gets the full a hundred percent survivorship
benefit, you would have to take a 10% haircut, just a, just about a 10%
Jon: the multiplier.
Louie: Mm-hmm.
With a multiplier.
So they would take your pensionable amount and then they would
say, you get 90% of that and.
In return for giving up 10%, your spouse gets that new a hundred
percent amount after you pass away, which is a great option.
The 75% option, let's say once again 55, you both are 55 and you want her
to her or him to receive, 75% of your pensionable amount upon your death, you
would be given up about 8%, of your.
Pensionable amount.
and then 50% it would be less than that.
So at a 50% rate it'd be about 5% or four point a half percent.
So those are just some, just some quick ways.
And it, like I said, it depends on the, age that you are when you retire.
It depends on your spouse's age, and then it depends on the amount that
you want your spouse to receive.
So those are just some options to be able to take care of
your spouse upon your death.
Jon: Yeah.
And that's, something to really seriously consider when you're
thinking about these elections.
'cause once again, this is not something that you can elect after the fact.
You can't be like, man, I've been in the plan for 15 years and man,
it's been a good ride, but I feel like I'm gonna tap out pretty soon.
And now my spouse is 10 years younger than me, so I wanna make,
I wanna do the a hundred percent.
And it doesn't work that way when you, when you make this election,
it's, it's irrevocable and it's a, it's a one-time election.
So just be very thoughtful when you're going through this.
And I would strongly, strongly advise, when you're making these decisions, to
have as much information as you can in totality, holistically thinking about
all the assets that you have, all your potential liabilities, all the things
that make up your financial life.
Like you wanna have all those things, considered before making any one of these.
'cause depending on where you're at in life, it can really change.
and especially there's, I've noticed.
I wouldn't say recently, but there's, some more of a, separation in spouse's
age, here at the fire department.
And I think a lot of that is, some of it is because of divorce, quite frankly, and
the second marriages or third marriages, and there's a wide variety of different
age banding that goes around there.
So be very thoughtful and considerate when making the survivorship,
decision because it's a big one,
Obviously you care about your family and, and who's going to get the, your
benefit, your heart earned benefit.
but just this should not be made in haste.
I would just, I can't encourage that nev.
Louie: I, and I, I would say there's also, if you, if you look through the, the,
pension brochure that we linked to on our Instagram pages, there's some other, more
nuanced options that you have, like pop-up provisions and last survivor benefits.
And we don't have to go into detail about a lot of those.
Just know that there are just some options that your pension will give
you that the plan will give you.
and you pay for those by taking a reduced pension amount.
I think that's the easiest way to say it.
And John, I don't know how you look at it, but I, for me, I look
at these options as insurance
Jon: That's, that's all it is.
It's an insurance contract.
That's what this is.
I mean, every annuity has the exact same things.
There's different survivorship options, there's different percentages and
popup and all these other things.
But that's basically all it is.
And once again, some very smart mathematical people
figure out the, the risks.
'cause that's what it is.
It's risk,
Louie: actuarial risks.
Yep.
Jon: And that's all they're doing with this.
And each one of those multipliers is the mathematicians basically
figuring out what's the risk that the plan is taking by doing this.
Yeah.
That's as simple.
And I think that's a good way to frame it.
It, but it is insurance.
It's insurance for those that you care about.
'cause you won't care 'cause you going.
Yep.
But for everyone else left behind, like what kinda legacy or what, how do you
want to set them up and, we can't add any.
We can't at any point begin to say one is more favorable than the other.
'cause this is truly very specific based on your circumstances.
Louie: And I'm by no means am an expert in the, in on insurance
premiums and what that would look like to do an annuity like that.
I, I haven't looked at it enough, but I could tell you that when I'm approaching
retirement, I am absolutely going to consider taking one of these options, one
of these survivors benefit options, just because I want to take care of Kaitlyn,
in the event of my untimely passing.
If I retire, if I retire at 55 and die at 58, I've, I've worked
hard for that pension and I wanna make sure that she gets.
Some portion of it.
I don't know if it's 50% or a hundred percent, but I think I'm willing to take
the haircut, during my lifetime in order to make sure that she has a pension,
my pension for the rest of her life.
So that 75% option that they just came
Jon: out.
Yeah.
It's very interesting.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Louie: looking option and I'm really looking hard at that.
and gravitating towards that, I was really thinking about the 50%, just
because I, I feel like the, the, whatever I said, the seven or 8%
haircut I would take would be worth it.
and it's even less with the 75% option that they have.
So I'm gonna look at those when I'm there, just because I've worked hard for
this pension and I want, I want her to collect on it in the event that I diary.
Hopefully that doesn't happen.
Hopefully we both live 25 years after retirement and we can
both keep taking that pension.
But I just like being able to pay for that insurance option and kind of make
sure that she's taken care of in the event that something happens to me.
Yeah.
Jon: And you should look at it through both lenses, so not only
your potential longevity, but also your spouse's potential longevity.
And if those things are well aligned, and you guys are both
the same age and you both.
Tend to, expire at the same time, then this changes.
But if, if your spouse has, all of their, people in their family live
to a hundred and you tap out at 70, just that's something to be mindful
of, of really trying to set them up for, for a long-term success.
so that's basically what the survivor benefits are all about.
So, read through the brochure, but really before making any decisions, really have
a good plan moving forward on why you're selecting what you're selecting and what
the, what the ramifications for those are.
last but not least, in wrapping up just some of the, the nuances
within our pension plan, and I hope.
What people realize is that this is a pretty robust plan.
there's been a lot of enhancements that have happened over several years
for our pension plan, and not only making it, it's, I mean, it's shored
up from a funding status, but all these other things, like it's pretty nice
that you've got all these options.
Sometimes it's.
Maybe too many options.
Louie: right?
It's overwhelming.
It overwhelms
Jon: people and they're like, oh my God, this is a lot of math, these
multipliers, all these other things.
But I mean, at the end of the day, I think that's what the, what the
plan is trying to do is just give you optionality and just seeing what
makes the most sense for you guys.
So one of the things, and we talked about this briefly, I think maybe
in one of the listener questions, was about purchasing service credit.
This is something Louis and I always give this presentation, to the
recruits as they're getting ready to hit the line on just, fi financial
independence and just raising some awareness with some financial literacy.
And we have a lot of people that did a job before they came here, and they
have either money in a 401k or they had public service credit because they worked,
as a police officer, as a firefighter in the military, something like that.
And they're always like, well, I've got this.
what should I do?
Should I buy service credit?
And this is one that we, we get asked a
Louie: a lot.
A lot.
Yep.
A lot.
Jon: What's your, what's your initial thoughts when, when
people come to you with that?
It depends.
Louie: It of course, of course.
As always, I know you guys are rolling your eyes every time we say that.
And, the reason, the reason why it's particularly true in this situation
is because there are different, different timelines that you have to
follow to purchase service credit.
sometimes they make you wait a year.
if you have public employment time in which you served in a public
employment capacity, but were not eligible for a retirement benefit.
or if you were a former military, service member, you can purchase up to
five years of service credit for that.
If you did not.
Contribute to, us
Jon: Erra
Louie: and I, I don't know, I'm, I'm over my skis here.
I, I don't know all of those ins and outs and how someone would
qualify for that and not the other.
so that's why, when we say it depends, it really depends on this situation.
but there are options to purchase service credit.
and they, they, they charge you cash.
They make you pay cash in order to buy this service credit.
And so when we get asked that question is, Hey, should I buy service credit?
Man, that's a, that's a hard thing to a, to, to answer because we want to
know, well, how, how long do you plan on being here and when do you wanna retire?
And do you need those service credits, in order to be able to hit your rule
of 80 and to receive a full benefit?
It all depends on things like that.
And then the other thing it depends on is, well, how well do you think you
would do if you, instead of purchasing service credit, invested that into a 4
57 or, or Roth IRA and I'll, I'll just say this, and this is very general advice
because I know that's what people are looking for, is like, Hey, just gimme
an idea of what to think about it.
I, I've told people, look, I, I'm not a big fan of putting
your eggs in one basket.
Yeah.
And if you're saying, Hey, I can, I can either.
Purchase service credit or I can contribute to a 4 57.
My gut would just tell me, contribute to the 4 57 because, if you invest
that well, you can earn somewhere between eight and 10% on average,
throughout the long term of your career.
And I like spreading out that risk and not just putting it all with a pension.
So I default to telling people, let's not talk about purchasing service
credit unless you are maxing out your 4 57 and your Roth IRA and you're
still looking for ways to save.
If that's the case, then yes, purchasing service credit is a great option.
and, and the truth is it might be a good option for you even if you're
not maxing out your 4 57 and Roth IRA.
I just feel like those are really, really good plans that we have.
The 4 57 and the IRA and you should consider.
starting to fill those buckets up Yeah.
Before we start purchasing service credit.
I don't know if you agree with that, John, but that's what I've been
telling people because I feel like you're, you're probably not gonna
regret putting money into a 4 57.
I don't think you're gonna be like, oh man, I wish I didn't have this 4 57 money.
I wish I would've instead bought service credit.
Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
I think that's a good way to.
Like logically frame it and think about it.
I, I tend to lean to, honestly a strong indication, whether it's public
service credit or private service credit, because once again, Louis
said there's, there's some nuances.
So after one year, which typically for most people in this region, you're still
not out at your first grade salary.
So you're at a lower, you're buying in at lower rates as far as what it's gonna cost
you to purchase those service credits.
So after, if you're purchasing public service credit, you
only have to wait one year.
After one year.
If you've got the money, that's the time to do it.
Don't wait because it's just gonna cost you more because your
salary has gone up and you're gonna be paying at a higher rate.
Private is man private.
For me, most times is almost like a non non-starter because now
you've had to wait five years.
Everyone in the region, you are now at a first grade firefighter,
which is where you peak out at minus longevity and some other stuff.
So it's gonna cost you a lot more to buy into that plan.
and I totally agree with Louis as far as risk pooling and diversifying.
I have been trained to think about, not the worst case scenario,
but all the potential what ifs.
And I always go to someone and be like, okay, what if you had whatever, we'll
just call it $150,000 in this 401k.
'cause you go, you worked at some bank for a while and then after five years
like that money has now grown to 200 grand and you're able to buy five years.
That's awesome.
Right?
So you've been on the job for five years and you're gonna buy
five years of service credit.
So basically you're in it for 10 years.
what happens if something happens?
You either get a disability or something happens where you can't
work here and now all that money is locked up into a defined benefit plan.
Like honestly.
10 years here is not great.
Like the defined benefit with the miracle of what it is and why it is
really effective and who it's really designed for is those people that
can get to that rule of 80, they can get in 25, 30 even more years.
That's really where you start to get a lot more benefit or bang for your buck.
so that's just one where I'm just always very hesitant.
Now if they wanna buy a year or two and it just makes them more at ease
or they've got a plan of they want to retire at a certain age and they seem
like they're gonna carry that out.
there is options.
And for some people it is good options.
the thing I don't like about it is you're taking a lot of risk at the beginning.
You're assuming that you're gonna be here for a long time.
You're assuming that you're gonna love this job, you're assuming a lot of things.
And when you're 25 or 30 man, there's a whole lot of life ahead of you and you
just don't know what that's gonna mean.
And I just don't wanna see our folks get of their financial assets locked
up in one plan, in one pension.
And that's just how I tended to Think of things.
So I don't want to poo poo this and I hope that's not what you guys are receiving.
Like Louis and I are completely against this.
I just think it's not as easy as oh, I've got some money in my 401k,
I'm just gonna buy some years.
think about what that money is and how potentially you could invest
that money, in order to achieve that.
'cause that's what most people are doing, is they're just rolling over one of their
retirement accounts or, other pensionable items in order to buy those years.
Yeah.
Does that make, does that kind of make sense?
Louie: Yep.
I totally agree.
I think, I hadn't really thought about what if you don't work a full career
here and you bought service credit and now you still have to take the hit
from an early retirement perspective.
Then all of a sudden it really didn't make sense for you to buy service credit.
that money would've served you better had you just kept it invested
in the market earning, somewhere between eight and 10% a year.
good point.
That's a good way to look at it.
So yes, we're not poo-pooing it for a lot of people it does make
sense, but that is why it's, it, it depends on what your service is.
When you got hired with a fire service, how long you're planning on
being here, do you really love it?
are you gonna hopefully get lucky and have a full healthy career here?
All those things go into, consideration when you're gonna purchase service credit.
Whereas if it's sitting in a 4 57 or an IRA or a 401k with a different employer.
Man, you have that regardless of what happens at the fire service, regardless
of how fruitful your career is or is not here, you're gonna have that
money invested working for you, and you're gonna be able to give yourself a
pension, if you will, from that money.
And I think that that is, that's really valuable.
And even though John and I have called the pension, the, the cornerstone of,
financial independent for firefighters, which is true, we, we look at it
as, as only one of the cornerstones, or at least I'm trying to build
my financial, picture so that it's only one of those legs of the stool.
But I also have a 4 57 and an IRA and, 401k from, my spouse.
And so we're, we're looking at all of those, and we want to, to spread out
our risk so that if one of those, one of those legs of the stool fails, we still
have money in other, in, in other legs.
So, if the pension were to go bankrupt, which we don't think it will, don't,
we're not trying to be an alarmist here.
But if it did well, we would still have money in our 4 57 and
Jon: you got other buckets to pull from.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Louie: I just like that idea.
I just feel like it gives me some security and some, diversification of
risk that makes me sleep well at night.
Jon: Yeah, I just, yeah, the, the one thing I just don't like the most is,
'cause mathematically it makes the most sense that if you are going to
purchase service credit, do it as soon as you can just from a mathematical,
I'm getting in at the cheapest rate.
and that's just asking a lot after someone's been here for
a year or even for five years.
Is this truly something that you're gonna stick out and do
for another 20 or 25 years?
And I don't know, I used to always say yeah, for the most people, but we're
starting to see a trend where people are just being more mobile or they
just want different opportunities.
And we just want you to have as many opportunities as you can
and have as many options from a financial, asset standpoint and where
you're gonna pour that money from.
So that's what we're gonna talk about for, service credit.
we also recognize, that, we're talked.
Exclusively about the defined benefit plan, That's what this
whole thing was all about.
We also know that there's other pension plans that our members have
access to or are currently enrolled.
There's the hybrid plan, which is a split between a defined
benefit and the 4 0 1 a plan.
And then we have people that are just straight money purchase plans,
That's just a straight 4 0 1 a plan.
we do recognize that and we, we don't wanna leave out that, that listenership,
on potential things that we wanna discuss.
So, Louis and I have heard you guys and we understand, at least for West
Metro, that's still about 60 of our members that are in the money purchase
component of it, and they want
Us to talk about the plan, not only how it's funded, but just things
to think about when it comes from like an investment standpoint.
So we hear you loud and clear, and I know as our podcast is growing and we're
getting a broader audience out there, there are places like South Metro,
those guys, for the most part, all their new hires are still in a 4 0 1 a plan.
They're not in the defined benefit plan, and they're one of the largest fire
departments in the state of Colorado.
So we definitely hear you guys on that one.
So we will, we'll give another episode that we'll dedicate to, probably a
mixture between not only people that are in the hybrid component, but
also in the money purchase component.
Louie: Yeah.
We just didn't want to convolute it by trying to add that in or try to make
it like a, an add-on to, oh, well, you gotta think about this if you have the
money purchased, that it deserves to be a separate conversation and not part
of the defined benefit pension plan.
Jon: No, 100%.
So we hear you guys, loud and clear on that one, and that
will be up for a future episode.
so this was, wrapping up kind of the two part series, if
you will, from the pension.
There's obviously, Louis and I, if you guys can't tell, we we really
do believe in the defined benefit.
we believe in the, the purpose behind it, the intent behind it, the safety
net where it takes a lot of the thought process out of investing out of our
members hands, which can, quite frankly, when we were talking about, DraftKings
and, all these other things, it really does and I know when West Metro elected
to go back into the pension plan, the people that were really pushing that
from that were a lot of the union.
E-board because they recognized just some of the risks that, our members
were taking by, investing, their monies themselves and quite frankly, being wiped
out after 2008 and 2009, and they just didn't want that, for the next generation.
So there's a lot to unpack there.
Louie: Yep.
Jon: All right.
Anything else you want to add for the old pension episode there?
Lb?
Louie: No, I think that was a good overview of the pension.
I think it gives, I hope it gives you guys a better.
Feel for what your pension is about, how it works, what you might get when
you retire, what your options are as you're approaching retirement.
And just know it's an awesome thing.
There's not a lot of people with pensions and there's even fewer
people with solid financial pensions, and that is what we have here.
We are very blessed to have a pension as our cornerstone
for financial independence.
And someday, I mean, what you're working for, what you're working hard for now,
just remember this during those late night calls and those lift assist when
you're getting up at two, three in the morning a couple times, is that,
someday you are going to retire and your pension is gonna be there for you.
It's gonna give you a monthly benefit and you're gonna be able to cash that check
and travel with your spouse and, have a good time and not have to worry about the
ups and downs of the market because you're gonna have this solid check that comes in.
Every month without fail.
That's a really, really cool thing that not a lot of people have.
So, we're blessed to have it.
We're, fortunate that we're working for it, and, we have a great plan.
FPPA is solid and if anything changes in that, and if we think that as the
years go by, something's wrong with that.
John.
And I will tell you, we're, we're gonna shoot straight with you.
we're big believers in the pension though, and we're really excited that we're
gonna have that someday when we retire.
Jon: Yeah.
No, that's, really well said, Louie, to wrap up this episode.
So it's, it really should, at the end of the day, just give our members
a little bit more peace of mind.
This job doesn't always offer that because of sleep deprivation and all
the other things that we have to, face.
But this is really one of the things that, we're looking out for you and
I know FPPA is looking out for you, and it's just one of those things
that should just make, the decision of whether or not to retire and how
you're gonna retire a little bit easier.
'cause it takes a lot of the, the nuances of market conditions out of it, and you
just know what your benefit is gonna be.
And then you go on with the next chapter of your life, which hopefully
is a great chapter and it's a long chapter and you get to have a lot
of different experiences with the people that you wanna experience with.
So, without further ado, another great episode.
Louis, I feel like you carried me on this one.
So, nonetheless, it's, been a pleasure.
and I really am.
humbled by a lot of the comments that we've gotten that, you know, I don't feel
like we're wasting our breath with this.
it makes a lot of sense for people.
And whether you're listening to us in your car or on a walk, or you're the new guy
cleaning the station, toilets, whatever that is, we, we take this seriously.
We wanna do a good job.
So if you guys wanna see something different right from the way that we
do this or what we talk about, you know, how to get a hold of us by now,
ask the fiscal firehouse@gmail.com
is the best, email link.
And then what's the, what's the gram handle?
Louie: just fiscal firehouse.
At Fiscal Firehouse.
You can send a direct message to us on there and we'll be able to address those.
And we do try to do those throughout episodes.
And maybe one day we'll do another specific episode where it's just answering
questions if we get enough of them.
So yeah, ask fiscal firehouse@gmail.com
or at fiscal firehouse on Instagram.
Jon: Yep.
Well, enjoy the, basketball that's about ready to ensue for
us for the next couple weeks.
They, uh, you know what the number one elective operation
that has performed this week.
Louie: a vasectomy.
Jon: The vasectomy.
The vasectomy.
That's right.
So for all
Louie: I need to get
Jon: listened to this, I'm looking at you, Louie.
Louie: I gotta do it
Jon: hopefully you've got all the things that you need in
order to take care of yourself.
enjoy sitting on the couch
Louie: Talk about money saving tips.
That's what it should have been.
It's like you wanna save some money, get a vasectomy, you'll save
Jon: are gonna lead with that next time.
Oh my god.
Hundreds of thousands.
Actually, when it calculate it all, it's probably millions.
So we kind of blew that one.
We should have opened up with that.
This is the vasectomy episode, but, no, if you got a team, good luck with your
brackets, whoever you're rooting for.
if you're actually at the, ball arena in watching the game right now,
hopefully you guys are having a great time and are rooting for the badgers
and not the big blue, but whoa, whoa.
Nonetheless, nonetheless, until, the next episode, everyone stay safe out there.
Thanks for listening.
have a wonderful weekend.
Louie: safe and keep saving.
Disclosure: The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is a podcast curated
specifically for local 1309 members.
This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only,
and should not be construed as professional financial advice.
Should you need professional advice, consult a licensed
financial advisor or tax advisor.
The opinions of John Beatty, Louis Barilla and their castmates are
solely their own, and don't reflect that of West Metro Fire Rescue.