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[CLAIRE] Now, welcome to Path to Citus Con,

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the podcast for developers who love Postgres,

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where we discuss the human side

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of open source databases, Postgres,

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and the many PG extensions.

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A big thank you to the team at Microsoft

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for sponsoring this community conversation about Postgres.

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I'm Claire Giordano, your host,

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and today's topic is the making of POSETTE:

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An Event for Postgres.

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We have two guests here today,

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and I'm really honored to announce

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and to introduce you to Teresa Giacomini,

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who works on the Postgres community team here at Microsoft,

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and previously worked at Citus Data

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prior to the Microsoft acquisition.

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Earlier in her career, Teresa worked at Oracle

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and at Sun Microsystems,

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so she's been in systems and tech for a very long time,

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was co-chair of the first two years of the POSETTE event,

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back when it was called Citus Con,

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and this year, Teresa was the chair

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of the organizing team for POSETTE.

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Welcome, Teresa.

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[TERESA] Thanks, Claire.

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I'm really excited to be here.

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It's gonna be fun to talk about this topic in depth

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with some of our hosts online

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and you as the talk selection team chair

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and everything else.

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I'm really happy to be here.

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[CLAIRE] Well, welcome.

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I also wanna introduce Aaron Wislang.

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So coincidentally, Aaron is also a co-producer

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of this very podcast,

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but this is his first time on the other chair, right?

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Also as a guest.

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Aaron is a developer who works with Cloud Native,

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Linux, and Open Source developers at Microsoft

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and in the broader open source community.

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He's the creator of this Microsoft Open Source Discord,

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loves Postgres, and served on the organizing team

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of the POSETTE conference.

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Welcome, Aaron.

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[AARON] Thank you very much for having me.

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[CLAIRE] All right, so I've got so many questions

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about the making of POSETTE to kind of get,

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to share with the world this backstage peek

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into what happened behind the curtain,

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before the event, during the event.

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There's gotta be some stories here.

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But before we dive into all that backstage visibility,

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we should just start, Teresa,

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with what is POSETTE: An Event for Postgres?

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[TERESA] So POSETTE: An Event for Postgres,

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is a free and virtual developer event

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that is organized by the Postgres team at Microsoft.

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And this is our third year.

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And yeah, it's virtual, it's online this year.

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There were four live streams,

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each with either 10 or 11 talks.

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And alongside of that, we had our virtual hallway track,

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right here on Discord.

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[CLAIRE] Okay.

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[TERESA] Claire, you know a lot about POSETTE too.

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Is there anything you would add to what is POSETTE?

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[CLAIRE] (Claire laughs)

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I know a little bit.

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Okay, so formerly called Citus Con,

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this is the third year you already mentioned.

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I think it might, like, it might be interesting

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to answer the question or talk about,

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like, why did we create Citus Con to begin with

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and now call POSETTE?

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Like, why does it even exist?

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Good question.

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[TERESA] I turned it back around to you.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, let's see, our first year was in 2022.

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We were looking at ways in which we could add something,

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we, as in Microsoft, we could add something back

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to the Postgres world.

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And one of the things that sort of,

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one of the gaps that was there was a virtual event.

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And I think we were really excited, I guess I should say,

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about putting together a virtual event

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to provide really excellent Postgres content to more people.

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Because, you know, with a virtual event,

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you don't have to get travel approval, right?

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You don't have to spend, you know,

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when we go off to PGConf EU from California,

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we spend two days traveling, well, one day each way, right?

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There's, it's much lower impact

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on the individuals, both the speakers and the attendees.

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And so we wanted to pull together an event

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that was very high caliber, had really good content,

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and make it available to a much broader audience.

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[CLAIRE] I'll also point out that Aaron was involved

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in the very first two years as well.

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So you served on the organizing team this year,

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but last year, Aaron, you were in the talk selection team

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in year two.

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And in year one, I don't remember

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what your official role is,

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but I knew you were extremely involved and helpful

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and encouraging us to use Discord

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for the hallway track as well, even in year one, right?

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[AARON] Yes, and I like to say,

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it's not a conference unless you can confer.

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So that's something we've worked very hard at,

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and I think building year over year,

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otherwise it's just a live stream, right?

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And we're looking at, you know, people don't really,

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the thing we want from conferences is the conferring,

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is the connecting with people,

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is the ability to speak to the speakers

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and speak to other attendees.

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And another thing I think is that speakers like to connect

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with other folks inside of their community.

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A lot of this comes down to our motivation

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for actually going and being involved in conferences

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in the first place, right?

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[CLAIRE] You know, you didn't just make up that saying, did you?

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It's not a conference unless you can confer,

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or do I get to credit it to you?

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[AARON] You get to credit it to me.

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I made it up before, but I'm using it now.

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[TERESA] (Teresa laughs)

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[AARON] It's open source though.

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[CLAIRE] So back to the why, if I remember correctly, Teresa,

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we started planning the year one of this event

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in probably the summer of 2021.

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[TERESA] Correct, that's right.

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[CLAIRE] And so it was still like vaccination days post COVID.

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Like, I don't even think an in-person event

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was within the realm of possibilities at that point.

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Like, we just weren't sure what the future,

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there was a lot of uncertainty still.

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So I feel like the world events forced us

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to be virtual the first year.

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And then, I mean, I'm the first one to give the pitch

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on the value of it being virtual, right?

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Because people have older parents or young kids,

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or like you said, no travel budget.

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And it's really useful to get all of this great learning

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content out there.

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But also, like you're saying, Aaron,

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that virtual hallway track, the confer part,

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and make it available to people more broadly.

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And I don't know, that's probably one of the things

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I'm most proud of, is that accessibility part

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of the equation.

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[TERESA] And accessibility goes on beyond

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just the virtual part too, Claire, right?

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One of the things, and maybe I'm jumping ahead,

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so forgive me, but one of the things that we focus on a lot

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are the captions, right?

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We spend a lot of time making sure

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that the captions are readable,

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that they are technically correct,

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that Postgres is spelled properly.

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And then we translate it into 15 more languages as well.

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So that makes it more accessible

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in addition to being online.

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[CLAIRE] Okay, so I was gonna ask you both this question,

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and I was just gonna do one of those,

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like quick answer, don't think about it.

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Captions, do you love them or hate them?

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[AARON] I love them.

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I really appreciate the importance.

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And also when you do get things

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which are technically correct, it makes a huge difference.

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[CLAIRE] Teresa?

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[TERESA] I'm just laughing.

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I love them as an audience member,

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and I don't love them very much as a conference organizer.

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[CLAIRE] Okay, why do you not love them very much

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as a conference organizer?

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And I appreciate your honesty in that answer.

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I kind of knew where your answer might land.

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[TERESA] You knew where it was gonna be.

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[CLAIRE] Well, yeah.

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I'm glad you didn't give me

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the politically correct answer.

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Thank you for that.

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Nobody wants politically correct.

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[TERESA] They're a lot of work.

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They really are.

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I mean, if you want to do a good job on captions, right?

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If you want them to be technically correct,

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and if you're not a technical person

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and you want them to be technically correct,

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you have to listen over and over again

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and look at the slides and make sure

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that you're representing the code correctly

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and the captions.

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And so there's a lot of work involved.

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And I recorded all the talks,

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and then I reviewed the edits of all the talks,

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and then I did the captions on a whole bunch of the talks

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and the bookmarks on the whole.

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So I've seen all of these things a whole bunch of times,

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and rewinding and rewinding.

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So that's why I'm not as big of a fan,

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but I would not not do it, right?

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It's important.

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It's really, really important.

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And so, yeah.

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So that's why.

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It's just mixed.

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[CLAIRE] Have you kept a list of all the different ways

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the automated caption generators spell "postgres"?

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Like, I think it would be kind of funny.

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It would make for a nice poetry.

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[TERESA] I had one.

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I wish I had done it for this,

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but you get "postgres" as two words, "posters."

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I think we had Portugal once,

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which was like, what the heck?

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There have been some that have been not mentionable.

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So, and there's capital Ps and lower case Ps

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and like just so, so many different ways.

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[CLAIRE] I just looked up one that Ari shared

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with our internal PM team at one point,

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and it was literally Azure Database for Psychos.

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[TERESA] Yes.

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[CLAIRE] So, I mean, it's just weird,

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weird spellings come out of these systems.

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And so what's cool is that you not only correct them,

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the English captions,

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but you correct them before all the translations are done.

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So that benefits and accrues across all 16 languages,

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even though I know it's a lot of work.

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[TERESA] Yeah.

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And, you know,

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"postgres" isn't the only thing that gets spelled funny.

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Coming from Citus Data, right?

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Citus is spelled at least as many ways

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as "postgres" is spelled.

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So yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's funny.

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Citus with an S, with a T, with a C,

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with sometimes citrus,

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because they can't believe that Citus would be the word.

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Right?

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Like, so lots of different ways.

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[AARON] But I will say the AI side of things

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really has improved year over year.

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[TERESA] You are right.

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[AARON] Now we have multiple options now.

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We've got things like, you know,

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OpenAI Whisper is used by some tools.

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We've got Descript.

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We've got DaVinci Resolve has a really good one.

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And Adobe Premiere,

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all of these different tools are now using AI models

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to do all of that automatic captioning.

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And they do a pretty good job for that first pass.

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One thing I'm really noticing as we go through,

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we speak very differently

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to how we might record something written down.

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And I add a lot of filler words,

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or I might repeat things and so forth.

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But these models, these AI models,

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are really good at capturing the intent

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and making something into a readable sentence,

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which I think is quite magical.

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So that's how it's been going.

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[CLAIRE] Boriss Mejias is on the chat and he just dropped in.

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And I'm gonna mispronounce this

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because I do not speak Spanish.

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But apparently, "Postres" is,

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I'm sure I botched that,

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is desserts in Spanish.

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And I know I've seen that in the captions as well.

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What were you gonna say, Teresa?

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[TERESA] Oh, I just said "Postres."

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I think I'm pretty close to pronouncing it right.

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Not exactly, but pretty close.

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Well, what I was gonna say was our speaker pool,

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we have a very diverse speaker pool

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with a lot of different accents as well.

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And so those come across very differently in captions.

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[CLAIRE] Yes, it's true.

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I helped you out.

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I mean, I wasn't on the organizing team this year.

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So I wasn't part of the team involved in,

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you know, recordings or captions or translations.

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But I did help a little bit in the end game

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with just a small handful of these.

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And it was dramatically different

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'cause I had some very different accents.

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And the caption generators seem to be better

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at some people's accents versus others.

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So there's obviously room for improvement

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in the tooling still.

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And I expect it'll be better in a year's time.

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I could be wrong, but.

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Fingers crossed, I tell ya.

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So I think before we dive into the backstage stuff too,

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the other thing that we probably should chat

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a little bit about is why did we rename this thing

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from Citus Con: An Event for Postgres,

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to POSETTE: An Event for Postgres?

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And probably because we're not gonna be doing

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a lot of the same stuff.

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And probably like, what does POSETTE even stand for?

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So let's start with the easy part.

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What does POSETTE stand for, Teresa?

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[TERESA] POSETTE stands for Postgres, Open Source,

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Ecosystem, Talks, Training, and Education.

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[CLAIRE] That's easy enough.

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[TERESA] That's easy enough.

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I mean, when you think about it,

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that's really what it is.

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That's really what we're doing, right?

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It's not just POSETTE, Postgres Talks, excuse me.

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It's things about the entire ecosystem, right?

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It's all about the open source.

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And then Talks and Training and Education

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is almost all the same thing,

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but we needed some good letters.

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And then why we renamed it,

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I'm gonna turn it back on you, Claire,

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because you really drove the renaming effort,

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which is not simple, by the way, everyone.

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It takes a tremendous amount of thought,

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lots of options and such.

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So why, Claire, why did we rename Citus Con?

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[CLAIRE] There's a piece of feedback I'd love for you to dig up

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from one of the speakers

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about how the name change influenced

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00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,800
whether they were going to submit a talk proposal or not.

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And if you don't mind going and digging that up

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and reading it out loud in a minute

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after I kind of explained,

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I think that would really just put the nail

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into the piece of wood or whatever.

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But we had been getting feedback that,

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even though it's Citus Con: An Event for Postgres,

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and even though Postgres is in the name,

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people felt like it was all about Citus.

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So if their talk didn't have some connection to Citus,

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they weren't going to submit.

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And we really wanted to kind of take that objection

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or that confusion off the table

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to make it clear that this event really is all about

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the entire Postgres ecosystem, not just Citus.

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In year one, there was a diagram that we drew.

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I don't know if we ended up using it on social media,

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but it was like a Venn diagram.

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And it was showing, back to the why question,

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that we probably didn't completely finish.

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00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,280
But what we were trying to do,

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as well as creating this virtual thing and high quality,

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00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,720
high production value talks, et cetera,

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00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,520
we were also trying to bring together

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00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,320
these different communities that we were in.

360
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,400
So the Postgres contributor community,

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00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,120
the Postgres open source user community,

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00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,880
the Citus user community, the Citus developers,

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00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,160
are people who work on other parts

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00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,360
of the Postgres ecosystem, right?

365
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,360
Patroni, pgcopydb, other Postgres extensions, et cetera.

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00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:33,520
And then the Azure Database for Postgres customers

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00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,360
and engineers as well.

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00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,360
And so we were part of all these different worlds

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00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,080
from open source to Azure,

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from extensions to the Postgres core,

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from users to developers.

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And we wanted to bring kind of all those six circles

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together.

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And the name wasn't helping us do that.

375
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,760
It was kind of getting in the way

376
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,800
because everybody only uses the nickname.

377
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:02,680
When my daughter was born, we said,

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00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,280
my husband and I decided to call her Gabriella.

379
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,440
And he said, "Okay, we can call her Gabriella"

380
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:08,920
"as long as we never call her Gabby."

381
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,760
"Let's promise to never call her Gabby."

382
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,600
Well, guess what?

383
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,360
By third grade, she was Gabby.

384
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:15,440
And she was Gabby for a decade

385
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,000
before she went back to Gabriella.

386
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,680
I mean, you just can't control it.

387
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,640
People are gonna use nicknames.

388
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,120
And so that's probably the number one reason why

389
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:27,400
is just to make that Postgres focus

390
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,920
and that ecosystem focus a little more obvious.

391
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,080
And then some people have asked,

392
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,000
like, where did we get POSETTE from?

393
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,680
And Teresa, how many names did we look at?

394
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,960
It feels like over a hundred.

395
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,640
[TERESA] There were a lot of names.

396
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,480
Just, I don't even,

397
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,600
I think there were some that you threw out

398
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,400
before I even saw the list.

399
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,240
You know?

400
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,240
[CLAIRE] Yeah.

401
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,360
[TERESA] Like there were a lot.

402
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:52,840
[CLAIRE] So the final list, probably after throwing out a lot,

403
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:53,960
probably had over a hundred.

404
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,640
And they were in all these different buckets.

405
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,560
And POSETTE, interestingly enough, was inspired by FOSDEM.

406
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,800
Because a lot of people look at the FOSDEM name,

407
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,840
they know the FOSDEM name,

408
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,200
but they don't necessarily know

409
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,880
what all those letters in that acronym stand for.

410
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,400
In other words, it may have been an acronym once upon a time,

411
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,960
but now it's just FOSDEM, right?

412
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,960
And so that's kind of what we were hoping

413
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,040
would happen with POSETTE.

414
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,840
So that it's inspired by an acronym,

415
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,920
but nobody needs to remember that necessarily.

416
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,120
[TERESA] So I found that message that you,

417
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,440
it's in one of the speakers' interviews.

418
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,600
So that's another thing that we'll talk about later.

419
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,600
What he said was, "The rebranding from Citus Con

420
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,040
made me feel less nervous that my non-Azure,

421
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,800
non-Citus talk might get rejected.

422
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,680
Thanks for selecting my talk."

423
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,800
[CLAIRE] That's very cool.

424
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:49,640
[TERESA] Yeah.

425
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,680
[AARON] And of course, FOSDEM is Free and Open Source

426
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,320
Developers European Meeting,

427
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,040
which I of course didn't just look up now.

428
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,120
[CLAIRE] Yeah, and I knew it was Free and Open Source Developer,

429
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:01,680
but it's those last couple of letters

430
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,400
that I've never known what they are.

431
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,440
Interestingly enough, as we investigated FOSDEM

432
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,160
and thought about it and chewed on that possibility

433
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,680
of being inspired by that,

434
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,560
I didn't realize that originally it was OSDEM.

435
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,000
There was no F in FOSDEM in the very beginning.

436
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,040
[AARON] I didn't know that, that's fascinating.

437
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,480
[CLAIRE] Yeah, and apparently Richard Stallman

438
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,600
was involved in lobbying for adding the F,

439
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,800
adding the Free into FOSDEM.

440
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,000
That's the urban lore that I've heard,

441
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,880
but I don't know that I've ever seen that written up

442
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,240
or I'm not 100% sure it really happened,

443
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,400
but I think it did.

444
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,320
I just dropped a link in the chat to the blog post

445
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,880
that somebody arm twisted me into writing

446
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,400
that explained the new name.

447
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:47,960
So that's a bit of a rattle though.

448
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,800
I kind of want to pull us back into the making of POSETTE,

449
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,800
although naming it is part of the making of it, I suppose.

450
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:57,960
[AARON] And one last thing on names,

451
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,760
we are here on Path to Citus Con,

452
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,440
which is also FOSDEM inspired

453
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,720
and also about to get renamed.

454
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,000
[CLAIRE] That's right, because Floor Drees,

455
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,320
who was a speaker at this year's POSETTE

456
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,200
and a co-host on livestream too with me,

457
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,000
it was so much fun working with her.

458
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,120
She originally had created,

459
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,440
back when she worked at Microsoft years ago,

460
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,000
this Path to FOSDEM series of meetups around Europe

461
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,280
in the days leading up to FOSDEM.

462
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,520
And this was back in, I think, 2020.

463
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,720
And I just loved the way that just rolled off the tongue,

464
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,480
right, Path to FOSDEM.

465
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,280
And so that's kind of was the inspiration

466
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,200
for Path to Citus Con,

467
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,080
'cause this was a pre-event, right,

468
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,840
before year two of Citus Con.

469
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,280
Right?

470
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,120
[AARON] A surprise podcast.

471
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:50,280
[CLAIRE] You got it, yeah.

472
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,560
Okay.

473
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,560
All right, so planning and execution.

474
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,560
What was it like backstage?

475
00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:59,720
Like, what's the timeframe?

476
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,200
I know that I worked on the rename

477
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,040
with my boss, Charles, and you, Teresa,

478
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,680
starting probably late last summer and into the fall.

479
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,600
What was your, and I remember running

480
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,200
the new possible names by people at PGConf New York City,

481
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,440
which was what, late September, early October of last year?

482
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,160
So we still didn't have the final, final locked

483
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,960
and loaded at that point.

484
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,440
But what about the rest of the planning?

485
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,760
What was that cycle?

486
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,400
[TERESA] So the earliest part of the planning,

487
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,400
which is kind of funny, is budget planning.

488
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,720
Because that passed, I mean, we work at Microsoft

489
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,080
and our fiscal year is July 1 to June 30.

490
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,520
And so you start planning the budgets

491
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,120
for the next, the following year,

492
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:57,520
like now, like right about now,

493
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,000
and even a little earlier.

494
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,200
So we, for example, we've already started thinking

495
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,040
about our next year's event.

496
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,760
We've already started.

497
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,120
Very early planning days, of course.

498
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,440
And then, so then after that,

499
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,520
we started thinking about the date.

500
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,520
And I personally had some things going on

501
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,480
in my personal life in April of this year,

502
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,600
March and April of this year, that was like,

503
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,440
well, if I'm going to be the chair of the event,

504
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,920
we can't have it in April like we have every year.

505
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,280
And so we had to figure out the dates for it

506
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,160
and make sure that all of the people

507
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,320
that were gonna be involved

508
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,240
would be available during that day time.

509
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,240
And then we move on to planning

510
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,720
like the structure of the event.

511
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,440
And the structure changed dramatically this year.

512
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,440
And there was a lot of thought that went into that, right?

513
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,920
How are we going to do the structure?

514
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,840
And sort of in parallel,

515
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,720
there's the beginning of getting the website ready

516
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,520
and all that kind of stuff

517
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,600
and moving into when we actually announce.

518
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,360
Now, we had chosen dates for this event

519
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,120
and then we went to PGConf EU

520
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,840
and we talked to some of our European colleagues

521
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,120
and realized, oh, we had originally planned

522
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,680
'cause that happened this week

523
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,720
and that there's a major holiday that happening this week

524
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,640
and that many of our colleagues would not be available.

525
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,960
So we pulled it in a week.

526
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,800
So even after we had done a whole bunch of planning,

527
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,840
we still were able, we had started early enough

528
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,840
that it gave us some runway to pull it in by a week.

529
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,680
And then what happens after that, Claire?

530
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,680
[CLAIRE] Well, then we launched.

531
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,760
[TERESA] Yeah, I mean, am I answering the question you asked?

532
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,000
I hope I am.

533
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,120
[CLAIRE] I asked a really broad question.

534
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:07,320
There are no wrong answers.

535
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,840
You can go anywhere you want.

536
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,720
I feel like you were working pretty intensely

537
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,200
on the combination of POSETTE and PGConf EU in December.

538
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,880
And you were working on POSETTE in November.

539
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,320
Like you were already speccing out website pages

540
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,400
and working through logistics, working through costs,

541
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,640
working through staffing.

542
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,920
Like you were intensely focused on POSETTE

543
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,680
with your only distraction really being PGConf EU,

544
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,560
even back in last November,

545
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,520
even though it didn't get announced

546
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,360
and the CFP didn't open until January, right?

547
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,040
[TERESA] January 19th, yeah.

548
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,000
[CLAIRE] Okay.

549
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,680
So yeah, there's, I don't know.

550
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,120
For people who attend wonderful Postgres conferences

551
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:56,000
but have never had to organize them are so lucky

552
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,080
because there's so much work that happens in the background.

553
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,880
And it probably takes a lot longer than anybody realizes.

554
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,920
There's just a lot to do.

555
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,200
So yeah, and I can see on the chat,

556
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,960
like Boriss Mejias is there.

557
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,160
And I know, I think he's involved in organizing

558
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,360
certainly the user group in Brussels, in Belgium.

559
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,400
And he might also be involved

560
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,560
in the organization of PGDay Lowlands.

561
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,760
I guess he'll tell us in a second.

562
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,760
[TERESA] I know he is.

563
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,240
'Cause I've heard from him about PGDay Lowlands.

564
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,760
[CLAIRE] So, okay.

565
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Well, you talked about structure

566
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,040
and I think we should be clear about what that means.

567
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,280
Like you said, the structure is dramatically different

568
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,760
this year versus last year.

569
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,000
What is structure?

570
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,120
[TERESA] So what I mean by that is

571
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,280
for the first two years of the event,

572
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,280
we had some of our talks were prerecorded

573
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,560
and went live at the beginning of the first live stream.

574
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,200
And the other, then there was a,

575
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,960
it was sort of about half and half.

576
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,160
And then another, the other half were live talks

577
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,520
where the speaker was live on camera

578
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,840
during the live stream itself.

579
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,560
And we thought long and hard

580
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,760
and we looked at that structure

581
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,080
and we realized that it caused a little bit of like

582
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,080
the playing field wasn't level for both types of speakers.

583
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,160
From a on-demand speaker, the prerecorded ones, right?

584
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,040
They never got the chance to sort of be the limelight,

585
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,120
so to speak.

586
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,200
And for the ones that were on the live stream,

587
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,680
they couldn't interact with people

588
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,080
because they were speaking on the live stream.

589
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,080
So we made the decision to make all the talks prerecorded,

590
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,480
which I think was real.

591
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080
I mean, that was absolutely the right decision.

592
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,920
I think it made a big difference

593
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,760
in terms of the liveliness of the hallway track, for example.

594
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:13,400
But it also meant that we had to have space for,

595
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,960
like if we wanted to keep the same number of total talks

596
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,840
and we actually added more talks,

597
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,840
but if we wanted to even keep the same number initially,

598
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,520
we couldn't do it with just two live streams.

599
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,160
We had to do it with more live streams

600
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,600
and we ended up landing on four.

601
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,280
So that was the biggest structural change, I would say,

602
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,120
is going to all prerecorded talks.

603
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:38,440
[AARON] And we also went from having,

604
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,680
last year we had an Americas live stream,

605
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,160
an APAC live stream and a European live stream.

606
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,280
But this year we went with the Americas, European,

607
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,200
Americas, European of roughly the same size as well.

608
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:58,880
[CLAIRE] Which Teresa wouldn't let me call Americas EMEA.

609
00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:59,760
[AARON] We just spoke about that.

610
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,960
[CLAIRE] Americas EMEA.

611
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,000
Like I kept wanting to call them that.

612
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,520
Americas live stream one and two.

613
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,520
And you were like, no, you have to call them by number.

614
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,560
We're not labeling them by time zone.

615
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,000
People might participate in the Americas live stream

616
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,560
from New Zealand or from Europe,

617
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,080
depending on like what their sleep schedule is.

618
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,280
[TERESA] You can't, right.

619
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,480
[CLAIRE] So we had a whole debate about that several times,

620
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,480
didn't we?

621
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:24,840
We did, we did.

622
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,040
[TERESA] And it wasn't just me, by the way,

623
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,320
it was, we talked about it in the organizing team

624
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,720
and pretty much everyone was like,

625
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,480
yeah, we can say Americas friendly or EMEA friendly,

626
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,760
but we wanted folks to know that anyone was welcome

627
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,320
to come to any live stream.

628
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,720
[CLAIRE] And it did happen.

629
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,080
I remember paying attention to the Discord chat

630
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,080
because the same Discord where we're having this podcast,

631
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,880
live chat while we're doing the live recording,

632
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,800
there's another channel and that's where

633
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,600
the #posetteconf conversation was,

634
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,000
that virtual hallway track.

635
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,400
Anyway, I remember seeing several people that I know

636
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,240
from Europe who were on during live streams one and three.

637
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,200
See that, I use the numbers, Teresa.

638
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,040
[TERESA] Good job, Claire.

639
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,360
[CLAIRE] Which were those Americas friendly live streams.

640
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,400
So yeah, people joined all sorts of crazy times,

641
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,000
depending on what was convenient for them.

642
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,840
[AARON] And that's the thing.

643
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,120
Some people come from work, for example,

644
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,640
have folks come in and they say,

645
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,200
well, I finished work and I'm joining this live stream.

646
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,000
So the time zone, the time slot that you're able

647
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,440
to attend a conference is very different sometimes

648
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,280
for virtual events.

649
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,120
[CLAIRE] Yeah.

650
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:44,120
Okay, so do you think that pre-recording all of the talks

651
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,360
was the right call?

652
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,000
Like, are you happy with it?

653
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:47,840
[TERESA] Oh, absolutely.

654
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Absolutely the right call.

655
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,840
[CLAIRE] Okay.

656
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,680
[TERESA] Yeah.

657
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,680
[CLAIRE] I do remember being very surprised, I think in year two,

658
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,760
when there was a speaker who had been a live stream speaker

659
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,200
in year one and this person is a fabulous speaker.

660
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,360
So they were accepted again with a total of 100 people.

661
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,960
They were accepted again with a totally different

662
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,000
talk proposal in year two,

663
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,880
because that's one of our talk selection rules.

664
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,560
Like we don't penalize people for having had

665
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,400
an accepted talk in the past.

666
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,800
I know some conferences do, they wanna have like

667
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,120
completely different sets of speakers

668
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,400
year to year to year to year.

669
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,280
So anyway, this person came in again,

670
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,840
but they were accepted for an on-demand slot.

671
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,080
And they made a comment like,

672
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,280
oh, I've been demoted this year.

673
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,480
And that was a surprise for me.

674
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,320
I'm like, you're not demoted.

675
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,440
All the speakers are great.

676
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,160
Like whether you're live stream or on-demand

677
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,320
is sometimes more of a logistical reflection,

678
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,240
not a quality assessment of your capability.

679
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,840
And yeah, but that's not how he saw it.

680
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,560
He saw it as a demotion.

681
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,640
And so I remember us talking about that.

682
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,960
And I don't know if that factored into your decision

683
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,560
to have everything be pre-recorded,

684
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,560
but it's always interesting to like try to see things

685
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,160
from the audiences.

686
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,000
[AARON] And I remember when we were first discussing it,

687
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,600
I had a slight bias.

688
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:10,920
I really enjoyed the live aspect,

689
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,480
but I also understand how high wire it can be.

690
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,120
And I was hosting one of the APAC live streams last year,

691
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,520
and I remember having to get our keynote speakers on

692
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:20,920
and all of the train of other things.

693
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080
There's a lot that can go wrong.

694
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,360
So it is very interesting.

695
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,000
But what I've noticed is it does allow everybody to be live

696
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,960
once you've got sort of set that bar

697
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,080
and everybody can be live.

698
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,160
And the people on the stream did not,

699
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,280
it didn't feel like anything was pre-recorded.

700
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,360
And I think that is the key,

701
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,160
that everything ran and we had the live hosts.

702
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,720
I do think it's very important having live hosts

703
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,880
alongside the pre-recorded content.

704
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,200
And the flow was effectively as it was last year

705
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,600
with the live talks, which was fantastic.

706
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,560
But we had comments coming through in the hallway track

707
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,040
and so forth saying, "Oh, I didn't know these weren't live."

708
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,360
And some people even assumed that the speaker who was there

709
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,040
might've been on the live stream.

710
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:12,440
[CLAIRE] Oh yeah, remember what happened with Jelte Fennema-Nio?

711
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,360
He was giving his talk and it sounded a little bit tinny,

712
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,520
which was not the case for most talks.

713
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Most talks had like fabulous acoustic sound,

714
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,360
but his was tinny, right?

715
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,200
[TERESA] Yes, and someone said,

716
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,320
"Someone should tell Jelte to do something."

717
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:30,160
Right?

718
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,080
And we're like, "We can't tell him it was pre-recorded."

719
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,960
This happened a month ago.

720
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,880
[CLAIRE] And that had to be repeated over and over again.

721
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,200
It was really interesting.

722
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,440
Like people just didn't, they did think it was live,

723
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,280
which is great.

724
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,120
It's great that the audience felt like

725
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,920
that's what they were getting, but it was also cool.

726
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,760
I mean, I was kind of disappointed

727
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,760
with the virtual hallway track in year one.

728
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,640
And I can't remember how I felt in year two.

729
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,480
[AARON] This year was an improvement.

730
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,720
I think year one was definitely quiet.

731
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,960
We were pushing very hard

732
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,320
and it was our first time up to bat on that.

733
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,000
And I think it's definitely grown very,

734
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,680
very much year over year.

735
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,960
[CLAIRE] Well, year one, remember,

736
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,280
we didn't even like get it set up and tell anybody,

737
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,160
even tell the speakers about it until late in the game.

738
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,920
So there wasn't as much expectation setting,

739
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,920
you know, preparation, creation of accounts,

740
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,520
getting on board, et cetera.

741
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,880
Anyway, and then there was that whole on-demand thing,

742
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,320
right, where they're really,

743
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,520
the on-demand speakers were like,

744
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,080
well, why should I show up?

745
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,480
Like, why no one's, my talk isn't being live streamed.

746
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,720
I'm not part of the live streams.

747
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,920
[TERESA] Yeah, I mean, I think it's gotten better every year,

748
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,520
but the difference between last year and this year

749
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,440
is more than just linear growth, right?

750
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,120
Like it really was much better.

751
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,240
[CLAIRE] Like, can we say dramatically better?

752
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,960
It was fun.

753
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,440
The chat, I know as a host, like I was completely,

754
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,040
because the talks are prerecorded and I wasn't a producer,

755
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,880
so I didn't have to worry about logistics

756
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,040
or anything like that,

757
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,400
that meant I really could pay attention.

758
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,800
When I was co-hosting with KK in live stream one

759
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,840
and Floor Drees in live stream two,

760
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,800
I could pay attention to the Discord chat.

761
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,760
And it was just a delight.

762
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,880
It was so much fun.

763
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,440
A lot of cool participation and engagement.

764
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,480
And what did you call it?

765
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,520
The confer?

766
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,240
"It's not a conference unless you can confer?" Absolutely.

767
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:32,480
And I think it also brings an energy as well.

768
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,640
I mean, just as we have folks in the live audience here,

769
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:35,480
and it'll be a smaller group

770
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,800
compared to the number of folks it goes out to

771
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,600
on Apple Podcasts and all the other place.

772
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200
It makes a real difference when you know people are there

773
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,640
listening to you and you can engage and talk.

774
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:45,760
And the other thing I see

775
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,040
with a lot of live streamed events and platforms

776
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,320
is the chat, people don't,

777
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,200
they have a very, very low bar, expectation bar from that.

778
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,320
It's very ephemeral.

779
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,000
You don't actually get to have a conversation somewhere,

780
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,680
but here when you joined a space,

781
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,840
which is like a big room where you can connect with people,

782
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,920
Boriss is right here and you can talk with him

783
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,440
and have a side conversation and things will pop up.

784
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,560
And it's been fascinating.

785
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,640
And even with this last event,

786
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,880
you as a host being able to engage during the talks

787
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,240
with the people who are there,

788
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,600
that is, it's a very cool pattern.

789
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:25,840
So before we leave the topics of planning

790
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,840
and decisions about structure and use of Discord

791
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,400
for that virtual hallway track and things like that,

792
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:38,400
I'm curious if research of other events

793
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,560
was part of your planning cycle, Teresa.

794
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,360
And yeah, I already know the answer,

795
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,880
but I think it's worth talking about here.

796
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,880
[TERESA] Well, yeah, I mean, we took a lot of inspiration

797
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,360
from the P99 event, a lot.

798
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Claire and I both worked with Bryan Cantrill

799
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,120
back at Sun Microsystems.

800
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,760
And Bryan made this comment about P99

801
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,840
that it was the best virtual conference

802
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,960
he had ever attended.

803
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,520
And so we reached out to the organizers and we said,

804
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,280
well, what did you do?

805
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,720
Why was it so great?

806
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,080
And we took a lot of inspiration from those folks.

807
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,920
I also got some inspiration from SCaLE.

808
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,760
And that was specifically for the speaker pages

809
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:27,600
that we put on.

810
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,040
I know that's not where we are yet,

811
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,280
but we added the speaker pages

812
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,840
and we didn't only put on this year's talks,

813
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,040
but if speakers had spoken the previous year,

814
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,000
we added their videos to the previous year's talks.

815
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,040
If they had been on this podcast, we added that.

816
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,480
So we created more richness for the attendees

817
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,960
to get more information.

818
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,840
And then of course we did the speaker surveys.

819
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,400
So that was long-winded, but yes, lots of research.

820
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,160
Can you remember where else

821
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,200
we got some inspiration from, Claire?

822
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,320
[CLAIRE] I mean, I think we definitely looked at

823
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,880
all of the Postgres community events that we love.

824
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,880
And even the Postgres community conference guidelines

825
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,880
POSETTE does not qualify as a Postgres community event,

826
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,160
but that's mostly because it's fully funded by Microsoft

827
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,320
and fully staffed by Microsoft people.

828
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,280
Or our designers are vendors that we pay.

829
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,640
So in that sense, they're Microsoft people too.

830
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,720
Those are the main reasons we don't qualify,

831
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,240
but we definitely paid attention

832
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,520
to all the other rules and guidelines

833
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,080
and tried to be as community-centric as possible.

834
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,720
And so I feel at least inspired

835
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,960
by all the PG events that I've been to

836
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,360
and just that all the relationships, right?

837
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,840
The amazing people you've met.

838
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:00,760
[TERESA] Absolutely.

839
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,800
Yep, absolutely.

840
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,280
[CLAIRE] I'm gonna drop a link in the chat

841
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,800
to one of the speaker pages for POSETTE

842
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,000
'cause this year is the first year

843
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,320
we had dedicated speaker pages.

844
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,800
And I'm choosing Adam Wolk

845
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,920
because he was a speaker last year.

846
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,720
So you can see a link to his video from last year.

847
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,760
And he did turn in one of the speaker interviews

848
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,520
that you mentioned earlier, Teresa.

849
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,840
And also because his name starts with an A.

850
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,160
[TERESA] (Teresa laughs)

851
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,440
[CLAIRE] So he's at the top of the list as one of the first ones

852
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,120
I'm like, "Oh yeah, he was a speaker."

853
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,960
So I'm not playing favorites here or anything like that.

854
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,800
[AARON] And Teresa mentioned earlier this week

855
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,520
that having the speaker page, for example,

856
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,760
sorry, having the speaker interviews on the speaker page

857
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,080
or having the previous talks on the speaker page

858
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:43,920
was something we got

859
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,800
from the Southern California Linux Expo.

860
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,560
So we learn a tremendous amount

861
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,520
from open source community events across the spectrum.

862
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,840
And we all have our favorites,

863
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,960
you know, go to KubeCon, SCaLE,

864
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,680
OSCON, the last one that was there,

865
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,240
GopherCon, PyCon.

866
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,320
In fact, we all met, I met the Citus Data folks

867
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,560
just after your acquisition at PyCon.

868
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,480
I remember we even had separate booths at that stage.

869
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,320
And all of these events that really care

870
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,480
about their communities have so much to learn from.

871
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,200
And we just borrow and share back across the board.

872
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:23,680
[CLAIRE] Okay.

873
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,280
We haven't talked about talk selection.

874
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,360
Because I'm hosting this podcast,

875
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,920
I'm a little sensitive to turning

876
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,760
the conversation back to me.

877
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,840
So, but I feel like we can't ignore talk selection.

878
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,800
So I don't know, what should we say about it?

879
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:39,960
Help me out.

880
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,120
[TERESA] So Claire, you were the chair of the talk selection team

881
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,320
as every, I don't know if everyone knows,

882
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,120
but everyone, Claire was the chair

883
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,480
of the talk selection team.

884
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,160
What were some of the,

885
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:57,560
what were sort of your golden rules?

886
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,480
Like when you were working on that?

887
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,000
[CLAIRE] I don't know if we have golden rules per se.

888
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,000
I definitely, when, I learned a lot

889
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,560
when I was on the PgDay SF talk selection team.

890
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,560
I think we called it a program committee.

891
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,200
And Christophe Pettus was the chair.

892
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,880
And one of the things I really liked about that

893
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,600
is he clearly, he gave us clear and crisp guidance

894
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,880
at every stage.

895
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,400
Like, and there was like a two stage decision making process.

896
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,080
The first was asynchronous, like asynchronous

897
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,840
where each person would review all of the proposals

898
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,840
and then vote on them.

899
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,880
But then we had a second stage that was synchronous

900
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,320
where we would all get together and we would look at,

901
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,920
you know, he had taken all the voting

902
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,520
and put together a proposal.

903
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,560
And then we would look at it

904
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,560
from different angles holistically

905
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,160
and try to figure out like,

906
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,840
could we make the potential schedule better?

907
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560
Like was something dropped off the list

908
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,880
that really should be added back on the schedule

909
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,120
and what kind of trade should we do?

910
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,960
Anyway, so that's kind of the high level process

911
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,800
that we used.

912
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,400
It was definitely a two stage process, asynchronous,

913
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,640
and then we'd get together.

914
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,560
Fabulous, I think probably the most important part

915
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,120
of talk selection is having a really clear CFP

916
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,560
that gives helpful guidance to potential submitters.

917
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,000
Like we have this great set of resources

918
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,640
that we link to on the CFP page on the website

919
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,160
that you maintain, that you publish, Teresa.

920
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,800
And we try to give people examples of types of talks

921
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,520
and very specific guidance.

922
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,240
So I think I'd be curious,

923
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,080
I'll be curious to see in the survey data,

924
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,160
like if you get any positive or negative feedback

925
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680
about the CFP process.

926
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,800
But that's part of the equation.

927
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,200
The other part of the equation up front

928
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,560
is just recruiting a great talk selection team.

929
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:01,480
So we have Melanie Plageman and Daniel Gustafsson

930
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,440
and Alicja Kucharczyk, did I say it right?

931
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,400
On the team.

932
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,320
And so they were fabulous to work with.

933
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,960
And we all, the four of us collaborated

934
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,080
really well together.

935
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,520
But I definitely saw my job,

936
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,360
like you think about people rowing in a skull for crew

937
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,680
and the person who's the stroke versus the coxswain

938
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,240
versus people in the other chairs,

939
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:23,840
everybody has a different role.

940
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,280
And I don't know, I do take that chair role

941
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,600
and that giving guidance role pretty seriously.

942
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,840
But we had a tough time.

943
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,880
We had 184 proposals and we could only accept 38 of them.

944
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,720
So it was hard.

945
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:37,560
Anyway.

946
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,360
[AARON] And things have become more competitive year over year.

947
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,000
And the quality of the CFP submissions that we've received

948
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,240
has just been amazing.

949
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,160
I remember from last year, there are so many talks.

950
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,440
You could have a whole other conference

951
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,840
with the talks that may not have made

952
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,600
that particular event that year.

953
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,040
[TERESA] So I can, I mean, I can share.

954
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,480
I know Pino asked for a little bit of survey data.

955
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,480
I'm quite pleased with our survey data.

956
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:15,040
I'm also, you know, I'm uncomfortable tooting my own horn

957
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,000
or whatever.

958
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,240
This is not my horn.

959
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,120
This is like the whole team's horn.

960
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,560
So please, anyway.

961
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,960
So I don't know if you all are aware

962
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,960
of what NPS scores, this is how likely are you to attend?

963
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:37,480
And that is an 81, which is pretty darn awesome.

964
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,440
Regarding the talks, people,

965
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,840
we had a question in our event survey,

966
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,320
is the collection of 42 talks useful to you

967
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,080
across all four live streams?

968
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,080
And three quarters of the people said flat out yes.

969
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,240
And the other quarter said some definitely are.

970
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,800
So I think you did an excellent job

971
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:05,400
of your talk selection, Claire, of the team.

972
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,920
When people were asked what delighted them most,

973
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,160
talks was mentioned the most often.

974
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,240
So yeah, so the talk selection, I think.

975
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,480
[CLAIRE] I know that I talked to Daniel Gustafsson

976
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,800
earlier this week,

977
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,280
and he chooses his words carefully, right?

978
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,240
And he does not compliment overly easily,

979
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,320
if that makes sense.

980
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,080
If you get a compliment from Daniel,

981
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,640
you feel good about it.

982
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,640
And he was quite pleased with the talk selection

983
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,520
and felt like we made some good choices.

984
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,200
So that was kind of cool.

985
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,080
I put a link in the show notes in the Discord

986
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,240
about our talk selection process.

987
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,440
So this was the first year that we published a post

988
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,240
that gave kind of insight behind the curtain

989
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,040
about the process we used

990
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,800
and trying to give some transparency into that.

991
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,360
And I did get feedback from a Postgres developer

992
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:15,000
on Mastodon, I think, in response to this blog post,

993
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,360
thanking me for writing it and saying that,

994
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,760
you know, they've submitted to a whole bunch of conferences

995
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,440
and sometimes, you know, do get rejected.

996
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,360
We all get rejected sometimes.

997
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,880
And that it was helpful to get a better understanding.

998
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,760
So that was kind of cool too, right?

999
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,880
Feeling like it was worth writing this blog post.

1000
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:36,960
And we're not the only ones.

1001
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,840
I think PGConfdev, Paul Ramsey, wrote a great blog post

1002
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,280
about their talk selection process this year.

1003
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,760
And I think the pgDay Paris folks also wrote something

1004
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,360
after the fact as well.

1005
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,040
Okay, so that's talk selection.

1006
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,600
Is there anything else we should say about that?

1007
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,320
[AARON] I think there's a couple of things.

1008
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,000
The encouragement of first-time speakers.

1009
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,680
I mean, this is not talk selection per se,

1010
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,400
but getting people to that point of submitting a talk

1011
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,920
has been really important.

1012
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,440
And we've encouraged a number of people

1013
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:11,520
to be first-time speakers,

1014
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,400
which I think is really, really good.

1015
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,880
And also being there, I think there is a feedback loop

1016
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,160
that you need with the community

1017
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,200
in order to get people to submit talks

1018
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,280
rather than just a certain subset of people

1019
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,680
who are already very familiar

1020
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,720
with the conference circuit, for example.

1021
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,000
And you've done talks on, and talks and blog posts, Claire,

1022
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,920
about why to give a Postgres talk, for example.

1023
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,280
And I think that is very helpful to people too.

1024
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,600
[CLAIRE] That's actually a really good point.

1025
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,320
As I talked about the components,

1026
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,920
number one, having a clear CFP,

1027
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,960
number two, recruiting a talk selection team,

1028
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,920
and then being transparent about who they are,

1029
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,800
letting everybody know upfront.

1030
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,080
But we also did a lot of work,

1031
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,160
so kind of point number three,

1032
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,040
trying to really make sure as broad

1033
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,560
and as diverse a set of people as possible

1034
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,920
knew about the CFP.

1035
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,320
Both as a public service,

1036
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,480
like there's nothing worse than finding out about a CFP

1037
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:07,880
the day after it closes,

1038
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,760
and being like, "Darn, I missed it."

1039
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,040
It's disappointing, right?

1040
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,000
But also because if people don't know about it,

1041
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,440
they're not gonna submit.

1042
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,000
And for some people, if they're not encouraged,

1043
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,920
they're not gonna submit, right?

1044
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,800
Particularly if they're new, like you said,

1045
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,080
new speakers sometimes need a little nudge.

1046
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,760
[AARON] And there are so many people out there

1047
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,440
with just fantastic things to talk about

1048
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,920
that wouldn't automatically think,

1049
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,120
"Hey, I could give a talk about this,"

1050
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,680
or "I should share this out there."

1051
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:39,880
And once you get them to it,

1052
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,640
you hear things that you wouldn't have otherwise heard.

1053
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:44,480
[CLAIRE] Yeah.

1054
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:50,440
[TERESA] Pino just asked a question about

1055
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,400
whether pre-recorded talks are friendlier

1056
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,360
to first-time speakers.

1057
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:03,000
And I think it depends on the person.

1058
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,920
What's Marco's answer to everything?

1059
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,840
It depends, Jelte, it depends.

1060
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Some folks, it was definitely easier

1061
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,440
because they were nervous, they could correct mistakes

1062
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,760
if they wanted to and things like that.

1063
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,400
And other first-time speakers found it hard

1064
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,600
because you're speaking to an empty room, right?

1065
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,160
And so they didn't get the feedback from the audience.

1066
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,720
[AARON] I know a lot of people who get that energy,

1067
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,480
and myself included, when speaking to a room of people.

1068
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,240
And that's something we continue to think about a lot,

1069
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:37,640
is how to make sure people feel that feedback.

1070
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,440
I think we've done that for the actual delivery of the talk

1071
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,560
after it's been recorded,

1072
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,120
so that people receive that feedback

1073
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:45,960
through the hallway track,

1074
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,200
'cause nobody wants to just put something out into the world

1075
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,520
and not have that feedback.

1076
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,280
But I do think we'll get to the stage

1077
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,000
where we can have places where a pre-recorded talk

1078
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,520
might be recorded with a group of other people,

1079
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,840
and you actually get that energy back,

1080
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,960
just like we do even in this podcast here.

1081
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,560
[CLAIRE] So, I heard a compliment the other day.

1082
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,440
This is not meant to be a victory lap and compliments only.

1083
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,000
Like, we probably should talk about

1084
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,960
any of the more painful parts behind the scenes

1085
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,320
in the making of POSETTE

1086
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,120
But I just want to share this compliment

1087
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,960
with the two of you and with the rest of the organizing team,

1088
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,760
including Isaac, Isaac Alvez and My Nguyen.

1089
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,480
They said that, well, I heard the compliment in two places.

1090
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,120
Once at the speaker and organizer

1091
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,120
kind of pre-event cocktail hour, social hours,

1092
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,280
what it was called at PGDay Chicago,

1093
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,560
where somebody said,

1094
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,520
"I love all of the designs and the graphics

1095
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,280
that I see associated with POSETTE"

1096
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,040
They said, "They're so delightful.

1097
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,000
They're so fun.

1098
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,080
They're so," I don't know if they said,

1099
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,280
"beautiful or enticing."

1100
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,760
I don't remember all the adjectives.

1101
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,720
I just remember the feeling that,

1102
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:01,360
and that was Elizabeth Christensen.

1103
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,040
And the feeling that she gave me of just enthusiasm

1104
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,080
that she was getting from the visual design

1105
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,400
and the branding around POSETTE

1106
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,280
So that's kind of like compliment number one.

1107
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,960
And then this week, I was in a leadership team meeting

1108
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,280
with kind of like my boss's staff

1109
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,240
and the engineering director's staff.

1110
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:26,360
And people basically talked about the professional vibe

1111
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,920
that they got from the designs, the live streams,

1112
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,280
the graphics, the webpages, whatever,

1113
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,440
the whole kit and caboodle.

1114
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,680
And so, I mean, let's talk about the visual design

1115
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,720
and branding or the pink elephant mascot that you used.

1116
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:45,800
Like, was this important or did you just throw it together?

1117
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,640
Or?

1118
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,160
[TERESA] Well, Claire, you know the answer.

1119
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,120
[CLAIRE] Yeah but the audience.

1120
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:53,760
The listeners don't know the answer.

1121
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:54,760
[TERESA] And Claire.

1122
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,480
Yeah, no, there was, you know,

1123
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,960
we knew we wanted an elephant, right?

1124
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,280
It's a Postgres event after all.

1125
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,040
Even when it was named Citus Con,

1126
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,840
we wanted an elephant, not a unicorn.

1127
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,400
And so there was, I don't, again,

1128
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:18,400
I don't remember how many options we had that first year,

1129
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:25,320
but we did end up landing on our fabulous pink elephant

1130
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,880
that I just love to death.

1131
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,040
[CLAIRE] Yeah, he's quite adorable.

1132
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,720
And I like the fact that when something has a mascot,

1133
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,800
that mascot transcends years, right?

1134
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,080
It just, it can stick with you.

1135
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,720
Like, imagine POSETTE in 10 years time or five years time.

1136
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:44,560
Like, I imagine it will still be the same pink mascot,

1137
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,800
even as other elements of the design evolve

1138
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,240
and, you know, grow older, et cetera.

1139
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:51,160
[AARON] And cute animal.

1140
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,840
[TERESA] Yeah, we added more purple to the background.

1141
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,840
[AARON] Cute animal mascots in open source communities

1142
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:58,680
is a recurring theme.

1143
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,480
When you look at all the favorite language communities,

1144
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,760
you know, Python and snakes and Rust

1145
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,400
and Ferris the crab and gophers.

1146
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,360
And for the Go community, it's obviously Postgres,

1147
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,480
the elephant, it's a lot of fun.

1148
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:14,320
People like fun.

1149
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,280
[CLAIRE] Okay, well, shout out to Teresa,

1150
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,200
you as chair of the organizing team

1151
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,800
and Isaac and My for just doing a great job

1152
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,800
on the visual design and giving us a mascot

1153
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,200
that we can all gravitate toward, I guess.

1154
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,960
So sadly, oh, go ahead.

1155
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,120
[TERESA] Yeah, and one thing,

1156
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,000
oh, I was just gonna say one other thing about design.

1157
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,040
For those of you who attended Citus Con previously,

1158
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:46,240
you'll notice that each year it changes a bit

1159
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,520
because we do want people to know where they've landed,

1160
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,000
right, that they've landed in the right place.

1161
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,480
But we did, of course, keep our pink elephant

1162
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,760
even with the name change

1163
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,520
because we wanted that connection.

1164
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,080
This is the third annual event, not the first.

1165
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,760
[AARON] And I do also think our branding

1166
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,200
is very different for this event.

1167
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,560
You know, this is an event that is community first.

1168
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,600
It's from the Postgres team at Microsoft.

1169
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,800
It's not a first party Microsoft, you know,

1170
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,880
event for our products and our things.

1171
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,120
So it's a real collaboration with the community.

1172
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,360
So it does have a truly different feel

1173
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,600
to a lot of other things that we do.

1174
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,360
We're very good at branding and other things

1175
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,360
in other contexts, but this is,

1176
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,120
it's very unique even at Microsoft, I would say.

1177
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,120
[CLAIRE] Yeah, I like the fact that on all the POSETTE webpages

1178
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,360
that I'm looking at, that you can,

1179
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,120
it's near the footer typically.

1180
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,440
It's further down the page.

1181
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,440
You have to scroll, but the attribution is there

1182
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,760
so that it's clear who the organizer is,

1183
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,520
so that that's not misleading in any way, right?

1184
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,160
You know, the Postgres team at Microsoft

1185
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,120
is proud to be the organizer of an event for Postgres.

1186
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,040
I love the inclusion of attribution,

1187
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,440
but the fact that it's not like hitting you

1188
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,160
over the head at the top.

1189
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,240
I just think that's a nice balance

1190
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:09,880
for a community first kind of event,

1191
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,520
which is probably no different

1192
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,040
than a lot of the other community events

1193
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,560
where like the sponsors are visible or they should be.

1194
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,320
They are like, go to the PG Conf EU thing.

1195
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,640
The sponsors are down a sidebar of the pages

1196
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,040
and they're quite visible, which is good.

1197
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,240
Like you want to know who's paying for this thing, right?

1198
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:29,080
Who's hosting it.

1199
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,520
I go to a friend's cocktail party.

1200
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,120
I want to go say thank you to the host and hostess

1201
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:39,120
or host and host and whoever it is that has organized it

1202
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,840
and show appreciation for it too.

1203
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,960
[TERESA] Yeah, and I think, I mean, that is something

1204
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:49,960
that we've worked hard on our Postgres community team,

1205
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,040
to do consistently.

1206
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,640
If you look at our socks that we give away

1207
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:57,840
at all of our events,

1208
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,840
and by the way, there are POSETTE socks.

1209
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,720
They, Microsoft is on the bottom, right?

1210
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,480
It's not way up high.

1211
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,400
And our activity book,

1212
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,240
we, everybody knows it was made by Microsoft,

1213
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:14,480
but it's not on the cover, it's on the back.

1214
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,480
So we worked really hard to show that community first.

1215
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,920
[AARON] I think I heard swag in there, Teresa.

1216
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,200
One of my favorite things.

1217
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,040
[TERESA] I did get the word swag in there.

1218
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:27,960
[CLAIRE] I think giving the appreciation to the community.

1219
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,240
I think this is another thing that POSETTE and Citus Con

1220
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:32,640
and your team overall,

1221
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,160
showing up to all of the community events

1222
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,600
has done extremely well.

1223
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,320
And it's fun, and I think it's very important

1224
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:40,360
to the community.

1225
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,760
Tell me some of your thoughts around swag

1226
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:47,760
and how you make it meaningful,

1227
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,320
because I know that's incredibly important.

1228
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:57,520
[TERESA] I will, but while I'm talking,

1229
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,000
I was about to go and drop in the link to the swag

1230
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,000
for any of the people here,

1231
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,600
that if you're interested in getting our sticker packs

1232
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,160
for POSETTE, would you mind dropping the link in

1233
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,680
or Ari, somebody, to our swag form?

1234
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,880
Because I am here in the San Francisco office today

1235
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,440
to ship swag.

1236
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:25,320
So when we're deciding what swag to do,

1237
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,040
first of all, we always have to do stickers

1238
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,920
because well, everyone loves stickers,

1239
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,920
but they need to be meaningful stickers

1240
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,920
and they need to have good graphic design

1241
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,240
and fun, something that each of us,

1242
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:45,280
even those who don't stick stickers

1243
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,400
would like to stick on our laptop

1244
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,960
if we were laptop sticking kinds of people, right?

1245
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,960
So this year we created two sticker sheets,

1246
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,240
one that's all about the event,

1247
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:00,440
all about POSETTE,

1248
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,520
and then the other sticker sheet is all about sort of,

1249
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,680
I will call it, Postgres and Friends

1250
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,720
or friends of Postgres.

1251
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:12,640
So there's a Slonic sticker on the sheet

1252
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,600
and a Python sticker and a VS Code

1253
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,720
and I forget all of them, GitHub on the sheet.

1254
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,120
And then of course we have a sticker

1255
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:30,120
announcing the name for this podcast right here.

1256
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,840
So that was something for a virtual event,

1257
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,560
you need to think about whether or not you can mail it,

1258
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:42,560
how easy and what the cost associated with mailing is,

1259
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:48,480
because if you send a insulated coffee mug

1260
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,880
like I'm drinking from now,

1261
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,480
it's very different than sending something

1262
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,600
flat.

1263
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,720
[CLAIRE] Aaron and I were having a conversation the other day

1264
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:00,640
because there is a philosophy out there

1265
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:02,680
among some conference organizers

1266
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,680
and reasonable people, smart people can disagree about this,

1267
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,120
but there is a philosophy that says,

1268
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:11,880
maybe we shouldn't be producing swag,

1269
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,680
maybe everything should be digital,

1270
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:18,080
maybe does a lot of the swag

1271
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:19,720
just end up in the garbage anyway,

1272
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:21,720
because people don't like it

1273
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,880
because they feel like it's just advertising.

1274
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,800
And so I know that one of the things

1275
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,560
you put a lot of thought into is,

1276
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,800
how do I create swag that won't end up in the garbage,

1277
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:35,560
that people are going to enjoy,

1278
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:36,880
they're going to use,

1279
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:41,040
and if not for themselves with their significant others,

1280
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,080
right, or somebody else in their family.

1281
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,640
And like the Postgres activity book,

1282
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:51,280
which I know wasn't part of POSETTE's swag this year,

1283
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,200
but is really popular,

1284
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:54,880
like especially for anybody with nieces,

1285
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,280
nephews, kids, cousins,

1286
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,240
and even some adults really enjoy going in

1287
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,840
and kind of therapeutically coloring in the pages

1288
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,200
or solving the puzzles.

1289
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,480
So I think it's nice that you put that thought

1290
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,280
into what people will enjoy and what they will want.

1291
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:17,480
[TERESA] Yeah, it's important.

1292
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,880
I mean, why send another thing

1293
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,800
that's just gonna go in the trash?

1294
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,200
Like, it doesn't make any sense.

1295
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,760
[AARON] I believe if you're going to do swag,

1296
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,120
you have to set a very high bar.

1297
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,120
I mean, you could go swagless and talk about other things,

1298
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,520
and that's very good and important and sustainable.

1299
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:32,920
But I think if you are gonna do swag,

1300
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,080
it needs to be meaningful,

1301
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,280
it needs to mean something to the community.

1302
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,480
It can't just be something generic

1303
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,240
with a logo thrown on the side.

1304
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:40,320
It should be practical,

1305
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:41,880
something people can actually use,

1306
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,440
not just the seventh iteration of something,

1307
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,200
and we kind of collect these things.

1308
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,120
And also valuable,

1309
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:48,640
something that's not cheap and plastic

1310
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,720
and kind of destined for the landfill.

1311
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,760
I think if you can hit one or more of those things,

1312
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,280
it makes a huge difference.

1313
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:59,760
[CLAIRE] So I've got a bunch of questions about favorite moments

1314
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,360
that I really wanna explore with you.

1315
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:02,800
And Teresa, I don't know if you know this,

1316
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,960
but we do not end on the top of the hour.

1317
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:06,480
This podcast is gonna go

1318
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,120
until we run out of things to talk about.

1319
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:10,520
But I wanna share something

1320
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,800
that just came across on the chat,

1321
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,360
'cause I just think it's pretty wonderful.

1322
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,440
And it goes back to that rename.

1323
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,800
And by the way, I'll just tell everybody right now,

1324
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:23,040
when my boss and you, Teresa, and others,

1325
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:24,760
when people brought up the possibility

1326
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,520
of renaming Citus Con, I was not a fan.

1327
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,120
I used to work at Citus.

1328
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,120
I'm positively biased toward all things Citus.

1329
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,920
I like the way Citus Con rolls off my tongue, Citus Con.

1330
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,400
It kind of reminds me of Comicon, right?

1331
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,400
And so I was not, I worked on it really hard.

1332
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,240
I was the person in charge of leading the rename,

1333
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,640
but I wasn't a fan initially.

1334
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:54,160
Anyway, it's so heartwarming to find out I was wrong

1335
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,440
and to get feedback like this.

1336
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,480
So reading from the chat from Boriss Mejias,

1337
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,080
he said he didn't put Citus Con year one

1338
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,840
in his priority to submit into the CFP

1339
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,580
because he really thought it was a conference

1340
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:10,200
around the Citus product.

1341
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,040
And he submitted to Citus Con year two

1342
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,640
only because he and I were together at FOSDEM,

1343
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,680
and apparently I persuaded him that it was a good idea.

1344
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,200
And even then almost missed the deadline,

1345
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,480
but he got it in like literally with a minute to spare.

1346
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,560
And then only after participating in Citus Con year two,

1347
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,520
did he really realize that it was something

1348
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,340
for the broader Postgres community.

1349
01:01:29,340 --> 01:01:34,000
And so, yeah, kudos.

1350
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,440
I'm glad we did the rename.

1351
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,600
In hindsight, it was the right thing to do.

1352
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,400
Thank you, Boriss, by the way.

1353
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,660
And thank you for being a co-host in year three.

1354
01:01:43,660 --> 01:01:44,500
[TERESA] Yep.

1355
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,880
Oh my, yes, a co-host with Jelte.

1356
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,280
I think that, I don't, they were so funny.

1357
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,800
One of the very funny yet insight,

1358
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,120
like observant things that Boriss said

1359
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,200
is he looked at the names of the four of us

1360
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,540
on the organizing team, right?

1361
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:12,140
And so it's Teresa, Ariana, Aaron, and Eren.

1362
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:19,520
He said, "We all have names that have vowel, R, vowel."

1363
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:23,040
So, we were the pirate team.

1364
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,560
[CLAIRE] Also got the impression.

1365
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,880
I should go back and replay exactly what he said,

1366
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,120
but I got the impression that he was suggesting

1367
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,400
that that was a requirement.

1368
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:32,900
To be on the organizing team,

1369
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:35,920
you need to have a certain phonetic sound

1370
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,540
or vibe to your name or something like that.

1371
01:02:38,540 --> 01:02:43,200
The other funny thing that happened with Boriss

1372
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,560
and with Jelte, they were the co-hosts of livestream four.

1373
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,160
And by the way, I know you published all 42 talks already

1374
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,380
and that we should drop the link to that playlist

1375
01:02:52,380 --> 01:02:55,200
of 42 talks into the show notes,

1376
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,720
but there's also a playlist of all four livestreams.

1377
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,440
So people can replay those livestreams

1378
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,160
if they wanna see some of the in-betweens

1379
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,040
and the banter between the co-hosts

1380
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:13,440
as they were introducing the various speakers and talks.

1381
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,960
But so one of the funny things they did is,

1382
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,960
well, they put on shades at one point

1383
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,280
in reaction to one of the video trailers

1384
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,420
that was promoting the talks

1385
01:03:23,420 --> 01:03:24,700
from one of the other livestreams.

1386
01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:27,000
I thought that was, that reminded me of that song,

1387
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,900
like "Future's So Bright, Gotta Wear Shades."

1388
01:03:29,900 --> 01:03:34,320
And the other thing they did is at one point

1389
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,320
to show our commitment to translations and captions,

1390
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,880
I think it was, Boriss just started speaking Spanish.

1391
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,600
And then Jelte just responded in Dutch.

1392
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,000
And that was not planned at all, apparently.

1393
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,160
Boriss told me afterwards that was completely ad-libbed.

1394
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,320
And even when Boriss did it,

1395
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,240
he didn't expect Jelte to respond in Dutch.

1396
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,120
So he was kind of pleasantly surprised by that too,

1397
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,560
which I thought was cool.

1398
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,400
[AARON] I found myself up in the early hours of the morning

1399
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,120
here in Toronto watching that livestream

1400
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:04,880
and I stayed on much longer than I intended to

1401
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:06,360
because it was just so entertaining.

1402
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,400
It was one of the most entertaining streams I've seen.

1403
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:09,320
So thank you.

1404
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:15,320
[TERESA] Well, and for someone who was very sleep deprived

1405
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,240
at that point, I was like, "What?"

1406
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,480
"What are they saying?"

1407
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:20,320
"What are they saying?"

1408
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,200
It was just so funny.

1409
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,680
[CLAIRE] Well, and Pino and Melanie, so Pino de Candia and Melanie Plageman,

1410
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,480
they were the co-hosts of Livestream 3.

1411
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,000
We'll just do this in reverse numerical order.

1412
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,400
And I did not get to watch most of that live

1413
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,080
because I had been up for 24 hours

1414
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,920
co-hosting Livestreams 1 and 2.

1415
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,200
So I've only been able to see bits of that on replay.

1416
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,440
But what I could tell

1417
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,360
is how much preparation they had done.

1418
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,000
That's all the hosts did that.

1419
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,960
They took it seriously.

1420
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,760
They did their research on the speakers, on the talks.

1421
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,200
[TERESA] Absolutely.

1422
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,920
[CLAIRE] On the pronunciations, right?

1423
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:03,000
To make sure to pronounce people's names properly.

1424
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:04,840
And...

1425
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,920
[TERESA] You know, one of the things, Claire,

1426
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:09,920
I'm sorry to interrupt,

1427
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,800
that I was so glad we did the speaker interviews

1428
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:18,600
because it gave the hosts fodder for their intros.

1429
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,680
You know?

1430
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,640
Yeah, it was, wow.

1431
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,480
I mean, everybody, all the hosts were amazing.

1432
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:25,560
[CLAIRE] Well, and I don't think we've even promoted

1433
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,120
the speaker interviews yet,

1434
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:31,320
but that's gonna give the team just like one more thing

1435
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,360
to share with the world, if you will,

1436
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,600
and hopefully then maybe drive some more traffic

1437
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,800
to that person's talk as a result.

1438
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,760
Which I think is in some sense the goal, right?

1439
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,720
Is to get these learning models, if you will,

1440
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,120
this knowledge transfer out there in the world

1441
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,840
so that people, other Postgres users, Postgres developers,

1442
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:55,840
future Postgres contributors, you know,

1443
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,040
can all learn from it.

1444
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,400
[AARON] And I've said this multiple times,

1445
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:03,440
but year over year, I find myself going back to talks

1446
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:07,120
from the previous years, 2023, 2022,

1447
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:11,280
because there's so much heavy duty learning

1448
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:12,120
to be done in there.

1449
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,920
And it's just a great asset for the entire community.

1450
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:17,640
And it's wonderful.

1451
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:23,400
[CLAIRE] Okay, so Pino and Melanie did, I think,

1452
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:24,800
a fabulous job together.

1453
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,680
And then livestream two was Floor Drees and me.

1454
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,320
I don't, it's kind of a blur in my mind.

1455
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,400
(laughs)

1456
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,440
[TERESA] No, you were awesomesauce.

1457
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,560
All of the, every single pair, I was thinking about this

1458
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:45,160
and I wish I had written it all down,

1459
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,760
but I thought about every pair of hosts

1460
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:55,040
and every pair brought something different

1461
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,440
to the host experience.

1462
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:02,440
So like KK, well, we were going reverse order,

1463
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:08,400
but oh well, KK, right, he had all of the,

1464
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,240
so much technical expertise,

1465
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,800
but also he's somewhat new coming in

1466
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,360
to doing the community aspect.

1467
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,040
So he had all of that.

1468
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,160
And you know how to host, Claire,

1469
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,600
you guide everybody on the hosting

1470
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,640
as you do here and everything else.

1471
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,800
Pino and Melanie, that combination was awesome

1472
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,280
because, well, it just was.

1473
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,200
Melanie had all of that,

1474
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,280
the committer perspective and things.

1475
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:38,720
It was just really great.

1476
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,840
[AARON] I was on with livestream three

1477
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,120
and I love the technical and the side conversations

1478
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:44,440
that were popping up in the chat

1479
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,360
where Pino was diving in and Melanie was talking about.

1480
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,120
And it was really just nice to sit there and soak

1481
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,080
and see the things that were coming up.

1482
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:56,960
[CLAIRE] So KK or Krishnakumar Ravi is his long name,

1483
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,040
but we all just call him KK.

1484
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,840
He is the engineering manager

1485
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,520
for our Postgres contributor and committer team

1486
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,080
at Microsoft.

1487
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:10,400
But he's also very knowledgeable Postgres person

1488
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:11,400
in his own right.

1489
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,760
Like you see him get up on stage,

1490
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,400
I saw him give a talk at PGDay Chicago

1491
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,200
about some very kind of low level Postgres topics.

1492
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,680
And he had a room of, I don't know how many people,

1493
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,120
70 people, 60 people, just all paying rapt attention.

1494
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,160
So like he really knows his stuff.

1495
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,840
Anyway, he and I ended up taking the same flight home

1496
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,560
from PGConfdev,

1497
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,320
which was up in Vancouver at the end of May.

1498
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,520
And he was just bubbling over with joy

1499
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,960
and having had such a great conference up there.

1500
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:43,440
And so was Jeff Davis,

1501
01:08:43,440 --> 01:08:46,140
who happened to be on the same flight too from Amazon.

1502
01:08:46,140 --> 01:08:48,720
And so it was interesting to me too,

1503
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,320
as we were hosting,

1504
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,320
as we were hosting livestream 1,

1505
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,320
at some point we ended up doing a little bit

1506
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,360
of a reflection on PGConfdev

1507
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,160
and his face ended up lighting up all over again.

1508
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,800
Like he's still really, really enjoyed that.

1509
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,880
And it's just fun to see people's faces light up

1510
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,240
when they talk about Postgres community things.

1511
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:16,000
Okay, so chickens, we need to like,

1512
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,840
what do chickens have to do with POSETTE?

1513
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:18,840
What's up with that?

1514
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:27,920
[TERESA] Okay, so what is up with that was one of the things,

1515
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,840
one of the inspirations that I got from Floor actually

1516
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,680
in my research was to have,

1517
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,080
rather than just get all the speakers together in advance

1518
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,740
and say, oh, don't wear a striped shirt

1519
01:09:44,740 --> 01:09:48,080
and be sure to leave room on your slides for captions.

1520
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,480
And all of those little things that speakers need to know

1521
01:09:51,480 --> 01:09:52,840
if they're doing a virtual event,

1522
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,180
instead of standing up in front of a room.

1523
01:09:55,180 --> 01:10:01,200
She said, have an opportunity for the speakers

1524
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,720
to introduce themselves,

1525
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,000
to have it be a bit more interactive

1526
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,720
than just a bunch of information.

1527
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,200
So that's what we did.

1528
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,060
And we renamed it to the Meet and Greet.

1529
01:10:15,060 --> 01:10:20,060
And I, but there were like 40 people on the call.

1530
01:10:20,060 --> 01:10:22,560
And if we each took a minute introducing ourselves,

1531
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,980
then 45 minutes would go by, right?

1532
01:10:24,980 --> 01:10:28,200
So I gave an example of how I wanted folks

1533
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:29,280
to introduce themselves.

1534
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,120
And I said, hi, I'm Teresa Giacomini.

1535
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,560
I'm the chair of POSETTE this year,

1536
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:37,600
and I love to garden and I have chickens.

1537
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,280
And that was my intro.

1538
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,380
And then the next person went and they said,

1539
01:10:42,380 --> 01:10:43,960
oh, I have chickens too.

1540
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,020
And someone else went and they had chickens.

1541
01:10:47,020 --> 01:10:48,880
And then somebody didn't have chickens,

1542
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,080
but they had two kids

1543
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,640
and someone else had a dog instead of chickens.

1544
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,040
And by the end of it, it seemed like, I don't know,

1545
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:01,160
I can't remember, Boriss, if you were on that first call,

1546
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,480
but by the end of it,

1547
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:07,100
it sure seemed like at least half the people

1548
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:08,820
on the call had chickens.

1549
01:11:08,820 --> 01:11:12,240
And then Newvick Lee, one of our speakers,

1550
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,060
used chickens as, or a farm with chickens

1551
01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:18,100
as the theme for his talk.

1552
01:11:18,100 --> 01:11:21,080
So it just kind of became this goofy theme.

1553
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,020
[CLAIRE] Well, and I think at the end of the day,

1554
01:11:23,020 --> 01:11:24,600
like one of the things that's so cool

1555
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,240
in the Postgres community is people are all very focused

1556
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:32,020
on either using or contributing to the technology,

1557
01:11:32,020 --> 01:11:33,940
the project, the community,

1558
01:11:33,940 --> 01:11:36,180
like sharing their knowledge, et cetera.

1559
01:11:36,180 --> 01:11:37,860
So it is about the work.

1560
01:11:37,860 --> 01:11:39,660
It is about the tech.

1561
01:11:39,660 --> 01:11:41,520
But at the same time,

1562
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,880
people give each other space to be human,

1563
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:47,360
to be goofy, to be funny, to have a real life,

1564
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,360
to share their personal experiences.

1565
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,320
And that's part of what was so cool about POSETTE is,

1566
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,520
I think, like, I think a lot of the speakers

1567
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,420
felt like they could be themselves.

1568
01:11:58,420 --> 01:12:04,640
It was so cool to see them just talking, I don't know,

1569
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,300
and sharing their expertise.

1570
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:08,160
So.

1571
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:13,020
[TERESA] Yeah, the hallway track for the meet and greet

1572
01:12:13,020 --> 01:12:14,140
was pretty lively.

1573
01:12:14,140 --> 01:12:18,580
The chatting, we were on a Teams call,

1574
01:12:18,580 --> 01:12:20,700
but the chatting in Teams.

1575
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:22,900
[CLAIRE] So there were these video trailers

1576
01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:26,260
and they were so much fun.

1577
01:12:26,260 --> 01:12:28,300
I think that is what Boriss and Jelte

1578
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:30,380
put their shades on for afterwards.

1579
01:12:30,380 --> 01:12:31,700
Like, they really were.

1580
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:34,180
Like, I was delighted every single time I watched them.

1581
01:12:34,180 --> 01:12:35,260
They're like, what?

1582
01:12:35,260 --> 01:12:40,220
Somewhere between three to four and a half minutes long each

1583
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:41,960
and you organize them.

1584
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,280
There was like a small video snippet for each talk

1585
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:46,680
and you organize them by live stream.

1586
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:47,520
Is that right?

1587
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,480
Okay.

1588
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:52,800
Anyway, I just can't wait to,

1589
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,960
anybody can go watch them now by going

1590
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,280
and watching the live stream replays,

1591
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,160
but that's a matter, you gotta kind of,

1592
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,680
like, you know, move the cursor and figure out

1593
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:03,940
where in the live stream they happened.

1594
01:13:05,140 --> 01:13:08,640
And each live stream contained a video trailer

1595
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:10,620
for the other three, right?

1596
01:13:10,620 --> 01:13:14,800
[TERESA] Correct.

1597
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,840
And then for the last two live streams,

1598
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:21,840
we actually ran the trailer for those live streams as well,

1599
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:26,680
sort of as an intro to what was gonna happen later

1600
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:27,720
in the live stream.

1601
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:29,080
We figured that out in between.

1602
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,480
Hey, we could use the introduction.

1603
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:33,720
Oh, that's a hot tip.

1604
01:13:34,620 --> 01:13:35,540
Mm-hmm.

1605
01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:37,340
It's just the hot tip for anybody

1606
01:13:37,340 --> 01:13:38,720
doing this kind of an event.

1607
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:43,720
It is totally AOK to change course

1608
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,580
to learn from live stream one

1609
01:13:46,580 --> 01:13:48,820
and do something different in live stream two

1610
01:13:48,820 --> 01:13:50,080
and learn from live stream two.

1611
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,140
And that's what we did with the trailers.

1612
01:13:52,140 --> 01:13:56,740
And so, Boriss and what happened was

1613
01:13:56,740 --> 01:13:59,420
we ran the trailer for live stream four

1614
01:13:59,420 --> 01:14:01,900
at the beginning in the welcome.

1615
01:14:01,900 --> 01:14:05,120
And when Boriss and Jelte came back on,

1616
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,520
they had sunglasses on because they were just so starstruck

1617
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:13,000
by all of the fabulousness that was going to happen later.

1618
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,680
[CLAIRE] So there were how many speakers total?

1619
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:21,680
[TERESA] Yeah, 44 speakers, 42 talks.

1620
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:26,840
And so we do have these trailers

1621
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,780
and Claire and many other people have convinced me

1622
01:14:30,780 --> 01:14:34,280
that we need to publish them for the world to see.

1623
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:35,120
[CLAIRE] Okay, hang on.

1624
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:36,800
[TERESA] So I'll be doing that in the next.

1625
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,060
[CLAIRE] In fact, I think you immediately agreed.

1626
01:14:40,060 --> 01:14:45,280
[TERESA] Well, it depends on when,

1627
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:49,360
like somebody, someone suggested it to me

1628
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:54,360
like Thursday, like after I'd been up a long time.

1629
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,480
I was like, oh, more work.

1630
01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,280
But no, it wasn't hard to convince me.

1631
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,120
They're very cool and they're fun.

1632
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,840
And hopefully they'll inspire people

1633
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:06,000
to watch some of the talks because they're inspiring.

1634
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,520
[CLAIRE] You just brought up the topic of work.

1635
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,520
Like if someone is sitting there listening to this

1636
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,560
or walking their dog listening to this podcast

1637
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,080
and has been thinking about,

1638
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:20,560
maybe they work at Microsoft and they're thinking about,

1639
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:23,000
how should I volunteer to be on the organizing team

1640
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:24,200
for a POSETTE next year?

1641
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,760
Or maybe they work at some other company

1642
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:27,860
and they're thinking about being

1643
01:15:27,860 --> 01:15:31,120
on a Postgres community events organizing team.

1644
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,240
Like is the work worth it?

1645
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,540
'Cause it's a lot of work, but is it worth it?

1646
01:15:35,540 --> 01:15:43,000
[TERESA] Oh, unequivocally yes.

1647
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,260
Absolutely yes.

1648
01:15:44,260 --> 01:15:48,880
It's inspiring work.

1649
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,200
You know, like I listened to all those talks

1650
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:56,200
and I got to be behind the scenes for all of them.

1651
01:15:56,500 --> 01:15:58,260
Behind the scenes for all of that

1652
01:15:58,260 --> 01:16:03,160
and build relationships with 44 different people,

1653
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,420
both inside and outside of Microsoft.

1654
01:16:05,420 --> 01:16:10,420
I mean, there's a long list of positives, but it is work.

1655
01:16:10,420 --> 01:16:15,500
But it is still a lot of work and a lot of time.

1656
01:16:15,500 --> 01:16:17,960
But there's a lot of like,

1657
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:24,380
there's this line from a song that I love.

1658
01:16:24,380 --> 01:16:29,380
It's like, I wanna have pride like my mama has,

1659
01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:32,520
not like the kind in the Bible that makes you bad.

1660
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:34,540
And that's how I feel.

1661
01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:36,900
I feel very, very proud.

1662
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:43,740
I want to have pride like my mama has

1663
01:16:43,740 --> 01:16:47,800
and not like the kind in the Bible that makes you bad.

1664
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:53,660
Because being, there is, you can be too proud, right?

1665
01:16:54,220 --> 01:16:57,020
You can be overly proud and that's not it.

1666
01:16:57,020 --> 01:17:01,400
I'm quite proud of POSETTE and the,

1667
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,480
what the team of people that did this.

1668
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:08,260
And the team is the speakers and the hosts

1669
01:17:08,260 --> 01:17:11,220
and the talk selection team and the organizing team

1670
01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:13,700
and the managers of the people that were

1671
01:17:13,700 --> 01:17:16,540
on the organizing team and the talk selection team

1672
01:17:16,540 --> 01:17:17,580
and the people that funded it.

1673
01:17:17,580 --> 01:17:18,420
I mean, it's big.

1674
01:17:18,420 --> 01:17:19,260
[CLAIRE] People that funded it too.

1675
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:20,080
It's big, big, big.

1676
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:20,920
That's important.

1677
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,580
We wouldn't have made it happen without the money,

1678
01:17:23,580 --> 01:17:24,420
if you will.

1679
01:17:24,420 --> 01:17:29,540
And then Ari Padilla, who's normally here.

1680
01:17:29,540 --> 01:17:32,820
She's not here today as a co-producer,

1681
01:17:32,820 --> 01:17:35,940
but she's normally a co-producer of this podcast.

1682
01:17:35,940 --> 01:17:40,660
She was on your team doing a lot, I mean, the social work

1683
01:17:40,660 --> 01:17:42,180
and the social promotion,

1684
01:17:42,180 --> 01:17:47,060
I thought was extremely well done this year.

1685
01:17:47,060 --> 01:17:49,780
We definitely had more activity than we had in past years.

1686
01:17:49,780 --> 01:17:52,820
And then Eren Basak was driving, I think,

1687
01:17:52,820 --> 01:17:55,060
the promotion on LinkedIn too, for your team.

1688
01:17:55,060 --> 01:17:58,860
[TERESA] Absolutely.

1689
01:17:58,860 --> 01:18:03,660
And Ari was there, like, through all four live streams,

1690
01:18:03,660 --> 01:18:05,340
the beginning of every single one.

1691
01:18:05,340 --> 01:18:08,340
That was not some programmed pre-scheduled tweets

1692
01:18:08,340 --> 01:18:15,060
and posts that were happening.

1693
01:18:15,060 --> 01:18:19,020
Ari was up every half an hour posting, right?

1694
01:18:19,020 --> 01:18:20,980
And making sure that-

1695
01:18:20,980 --> 01:18:23,460
[AARON] These sort of efforts, they're definitely a team sport

1696
01:18:23,460 --> 01:18:26,700
and you definitely have to be prepared to do the work

1697
01:18:26,700 --> 01:18:29,820
and so forth, but it is just so rewarding

1698
01:18:29,820 --> 01:18:30,900
to be serving the community.

1699
01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:33,580
And to the point, Claire, about funding,

1700
01:18:33,580 --> 01:18:36,420
we get to do this as our day job

1701
01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:37,940
and it's a tremendous privilege

1702
01:18:37,940 --> 01:18:40,860
and it's great that Microsoft enables us to do this.

1703
01:18:40,860 --> 01:18:43,020
And it's a wonderful time in history

1704
01:18:43,020 --> 01:18:44,620
to be able to be serving open source communities

1705
01:18:44,620 --> 01:18:45,860
a company like Microsoft.

1706
01:18:45,860 --> 01:18:48,180
[CLAIRE] Yeah.

1707
01:18:49,140 --> 01:18:51,060
My boss, Charles Feddersen,

1708
01:18:51,060 --> 01:18:53,860
who was one of the invited keynote speakers,

1709
01:18:53,860 --> 01:18:56,260
and we should pause and talk about the keynote speakers

1710
01:18:56,260 --> 01:18:57,260
for just a second,

1711
01:18:57,260 --> 01:19:03,220
but his support of our time and the funding, it was huge.

1712
01:19:03,220 --> 01:19:05,060
Like, couldn't have done it,

1713
01:19:05,060 --> 01:19:08,420
wouldn't have had the luxury of organizing this event

1714
01:19:08,420 --> 01:19:09,460
without his support.

1715
01:19:09,460 --> 01:19:14,100
So for the talk selection team, we decided on 38 talks,

1716
01:19:14,100 --> 01:19:17,660
but then I took the lead on figuring out

1717
01:19:17,660 --> 01:19:20,580
who to invite for our four keynote speakers

1718
01:19:20,580 --> 01:19:23,300
'cause each live stream had one keynoter in the beginning.

1719
01:19:23,300 --> 01:19:27,780
And I was so happy that, well, that people said yes

1720
01:19:27,780 --> 01:19:31,220
to the invitations to be a keynote speaker.

1721
01:19:31,220 --> 01:19:36,220
And with the kind of diversity of topics that we had, right?

1722
01:19:36,220 --> 01:19:38,500
I mean, Charles talked about all the Postgres things

1723
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:40,220
that we're doing at Microsoft,

1724
01:19:40,220 --> 01:19:42,580
which of course I'm quite proud of.

1725
01:19:42,580 --> 01:19:47,140
Sarah Novotny shared lessons and learnings

1726
01:19:47,140 --> 01:19:48,740
from her work in open source

1727
01:19:48,740 --> 01:19:51,220
on other projects like Kubernetes.

1728
01:19:51,220 --> 01:19:54,180
Regina Obe is a brilliant technologist

1729
01:19:54,180 --> 01:19:57,740
in the PostGIS and open source geospatial world,

1730
01:19:57,740 --> 01:20:03,100
book author, on the executive steering committee for PostGIS

1731
01:20:03,100 --> 01:20:05,900
and having her kind of try to bring together

1732
01:20:05,900 --> 01:20:07,460
the open source geospatial community

1733
01:20:07,460 --> 01:20:09,500
and the Postgres community in her keynote,

1734
01:20:09,500 --> 01:20:10,820
I thought was pretty darn cool.

1735
01:20:10,820 --> 01:20:13,300
And then I loved Thomas's walking tour

1736
01:20:13,300 --> 01:20:16,500
on the history of Postgres and PostgreSQL.

1737
01:20:16,500 --> 01:20:18,340
Like that was pretty cool too.

1738
01:20:18,340 --> 01:20:20,900
So I don't know, I was glowing.

1739
01:20:20,900 --> 01:20:24,460
I was super happy that they said yes.

1740
01:20:24,460 --> 01:20:27,020
And with what they ultimately, each of them,

1741
01:20:27,020 --> 01:20:32,020
each of Charles and Regina and Sarah and Thomas

1742
01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:35,660
and those names are in the order of the four live streams,

1743
01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:37,060
each of what they delivered.

1744
01:20:37,060 --> 01:20:40,700
Okay, am I just waxing philosophical now?

1745
01:20:40,700 --> 01:20:43,980
[AARON] Well, I think the keynotes were wonderful

1746
01:20:43,980 --> 01:20:45,580
because it was such a wonderful cross section

1747
01:20:45,580 --> 01:20:47,580
of the community and when people come to a community,

1748
01:20:47,580 --> 01:20:49,820
I know it's a technical community,

1749
01:20:49,820 --> 01:20:53,460
but in the PostGIS world, it's very much the people as well.

1750
01:20:53,460 --> 01:20:55,780
And there's so many different facets to it

1751
01:20:55,780 --> 01:20:57,420
and that's what makes it so rich.

1752
01:20:57,420 --> 01:21:00,180
[CLAIRE] One of the things I wanted to share,

1753
01:21:00,180 --> 01:21:02,340
I published this ultimate guide blog post

1754
01:21:02,340 --> 01:21:04,900
that kind of sliced and diced the talks

1755
01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:07,900
into different categories and tagged them,

1756
01:21:07,900 --> 01:21:08,860
et cetera, et cetera.

1757
01:21:08,860 --> 01:21:10,260
But what I didn't share in that

1758
01:21:10,260 --> 01:21:13,220
is some of the like speaker metrics that I calculated.

1759
01:21:13,220 --> 01:21:15,060
So I just thought I'd share them here.

1760
01:21:15,580 --> 01:21:20,260
Of the 42 talks, 48% of them had talks

1761
01:21:20,260 --> 01:21:23,220
with speakers from the Americas,

1762
01:21:23,220 --> 01:21:27,620
whereas 45% of them had talks with speakers from EMEA.

1763
01:21:27,620 --> 01:21:31,620
EMEA is Europe, Middle East, Africa.

1764
01:21:31,620 --> 01:21:36,620
And then 7% of them had talks with speakers from APAC.

1765
01:21:36,620 --> 01:21:42,300
So Asia Pacific, so whether that's New Zealand or India

1766
01:21:42,300 --> 01:21:44,740
or whatever other countries.

1767
01:21:44,740 --> 01:21:49,420
So it was fairly diverse in that sense.

1768
01:21:49,420 --> 01:21:53,940
And then of the 42 talks, 10 of the talks had female speakers

1769
01:21:53,940 --> 01:21:59,300
and yeah, I don't know, I just wanted to share that.

1770
01:21:59,300 --> 01:22:04,820
We didn't have quotas or anything

1771
01:22:04,820 --> 01:22:06,780
as we were doing talk selection,

1772
01:22:06,780 --> 01:22:09,140
but we definitely at the end, like step back,

1773
01:22:09,140 --> 01:22:13,340
you wanna know that 100% of your talks

1774
01:22:13,340 --> 01:22:15,740
should not be from a single country, right?

1775
01:22:15,740 --> 01:22:19,940
100% of your talks should not be from people

1776
01:22:19,940 --> 01:22:26,780
with a singular type of background.

1777
01:22:26,780 --> 01:22:28,020
So that was-

1778
01:22:28,020 --> 01:22:30,940
[AARON] I think the great thing about the Postgres community

1779
01:22:30,940 --> 01:22:32,460
as well as it's such a global community

1780
01:22:32,460 --> 01:22:35,860
and we're always talking about how many contributors

1781
01:22:35,860 --> 01:22:37,500
and other folks are based in Europe, for example,

1782
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:40,420
it's very hard to have a North American centered mindset

1783
01:22:40,420 --> 01:22:41,940
when you're serving a community

1784
01:22:41,940 --> 01:22:43,580
that's as diverse as Postgres.

1785
01:22:43,580 --> 01:22:47,900
And it's really been possible even in one event

1786
01:22:47,900 --> 01:22:50,900
to be able to get such a good cross section across the board

1787
01:22:50,900 --> 01:22:56,780
[TERESA] And that cross section means captions are hard.

1788
01:22:56,780 --> 01:23:01,140
[AARON] But even more useful to make it more accessible.

1789
01:23:01,140 --> 01:23:03,340
[TERESA] I'm teasing, I was teasing.

1790
01:23:03,340 --> 01:23:04,620
[AARON] But that's the wonderful thing.

1791
01:23:04,620 --> 01:23:07,420
Somebody from another region,

1792
01:23:07,420 --> 01:23:10,060
I have some Kiwi in my accent,

1793
01:23:10,060 --> 01:23:11,940
people find me hard to understand at times.

1794
01:23:11,940 --> 01:23:13,820
Some people say they need to see my lips moving

1795
01:23:13,820 --> 01:23:15,060
and all the rest,

1796
01:23:15,060 --> 01:23:16,340
but somebody who's delivering

1797
01:23:16,340 --> 01:23:18,420
some very deeply technical content

1798
01:23:18,420 --> 01:23:21,460
where you have to understand even the technical terms.

1799
01:23:21,460 --> 01:23:23,980
Maybe you're just new to that particular part

1800
01:23:23,980 --> 01:23:26,220
of the technology and you know what it is

1801
01:23:26,220 --> 01:23:29,620
because you see it on the screen as you're hearing the talk.

1802
01:23:29,620 --> 01:23:31,300
And I do think that's quite magical

1803
01:23:31,300 --> 01:23:32,380
and it's even more important

1804
01:23:32,380 --> 01:23:36,100
in these kind of community talks, which is fantastic.

1805
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:39,940
[CLAIRE] Teresa, I just wanted to ask you about that quote

1806
01:23:39,940 --> 01:23:41,500
that you shared earlier.

1807
01:23:41,500 --> 01:23:43,980
Aaron put a link into the show notes.

1808
01:23:43,980 --> 01:23:45,780
It looks like those are lyrics

1809
01:23:45,780 --> 01:23:48,460
of the "I wanna have pride like my mother has"

1810
01:23:48,460 --> 01:23:51,580
"and not like the kind in the Bible that turns you bad"

1811
01:23:51,580 --> 01:23:54,900
He says it's the The Avett Brothers.

1812
01:23:54,900 --> 01:23:55,780
So I'm just curious,

1813
01:23:55,780 --> 01:23:57,580
are you wearing an Avett Brothers brothers t-shirt right now?

1814
01:23:57,580 --> 01:23:59,020
'Cause I know you're a huge fan.

1815
01:23:59,020 --> 01:24:02,260
[TERESA] Well, I wouldn't be wearing an Avett brothers t-shirt

1816
01:24:02,260 --> 01:24:05,140
because their name is the Avett brothers.

1817
01:24:05,140 --> 01:24:06,700
[CLAIRE] Oh my goodness gracious.

1818
01:24:06,700 --> 01:24:08,380
Okay, I stand corrected.

1819
01:24:08,380 --> 01:24:11,340
[TERESA] Yeah, but no, what I am wearing today

1820
01:24:11,340 --> 01:24:16,340
is a rainbow stripe t-shirt because it is pride month.

1821
01:24:16,340 --> 01:24:19,740
So, and I'm here in the office.

1822
01:24:19,740 --> 01:24:21,860
If I were home, I would be having,

1823
01:24:21,860 --> 01:24:23,740
you know, my PJs on probably, but.

1824
01:24:23,740 --> 01:24:26,700
[CLAIRE] So the other thing I wanna thank you for

1825
01:24:26,700 --> 01:24:29,620
is actually I'm channeling Pino de Candia right now.

1826
01:24:29,620 --> 01:24:34,180
And I heard this as well from another one

1827
01:24:34,180 --> 01:24:39,180
of my colleagues here on the Azure team, Guy Bowerman,

1828
01:24:39,180 --> 01:24:42,380
that people really appreciated that there were live streams

1829
01:24:42,380 --> 01:24:44,860
in based in a few different time zones

1830
01:24:44,860 --> 01:24:48,380
that made it more accessible.

1831
01:24:48,380 --> 01:24:50,260
I've heard that from several different people.

1832
01:24:50,260 --> 01:24:51,100
So thank you for that,

1833
01:24:51,100 --> 01:24:53,380
even though it meant that, you know,

1834
01:24:53,380 --> 01:24:55,300
some of us were a bit sleep deprived,

1835
01:24:55,300 --> 01:24:56,620
especially you, Teresa.

1836
01:24:56,620 --> 01:25:01,980
[TERESA] That did come up in survey results too.

1837
01:25:01,980 --> 01:25:05,620
Like a few different people said, thank you.

1838
01:25:05,620 --> 01:25:10,620
It meant that I could watch some in my time zone

1839
01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:13,980
and that the trailers gave me an insight into others

1840
01:25:13,980 --> 01:25:15,740
that I would watch it on demand later.

1841
01:25:15,740 --> 01:25:18,300
Like, yeah, I think it's important

1842
01:25:18,300 --> 01:25:19,940
to be in multiple time zones.

1843
01:25:19,940 --> 01:25:25,420
Because the hallway track was so fun this year, right?

1844
01:25:25,420 --> 01:25:28,860
Like, sure, anybody can watch any of these talks

1845
01:25:30,500 --> 01:25:32,820
on their own time, right?

1846
01:25:32,820 --> 01:25:33,980
But-

1847
01:25:33,980 --> 01:25:35,300
[CLAIRE] 1.5x speed.

1848
01:25:35,300 --> 01:25:36,140
[TERESA] Right.

1849
01:25:36,140 --> 01:25:36,980
[CLAIRE] With captions.

1850
01:25:36,980 --> 01:25:39,740
[TERESA] Can I just tell you that some of them sound,

1851
01:25:39,740 --> 01:25:42,020
don't tell anyone, but there are a handful of them

1852
01:25:42,020 --> 01:25:45,220
that sound even better at 1.5 speed.

1853
01:25:45,220 --> 01:25:47,820
I think--than they do normally.

1854
01:25:47,820 --> 01:25:49,020
Not all of them.

1855
01:25:49,020 --> 01:25:52,020
[CLAIRE] I cannot listen to myself at normal speed.

1856
01:25:52,020 --> 01:25:54,700
At normal speed, I think I talk too slowly

1857
01:25:54,700 --> 01:25:56,660
and I get really bored.

1858
01:25:56,660 --> 01:25:57,500
So I-

1859
01:25:57,500 --> 01:25:58,580
[TERESA] Oh no, you don't talk too slowly.

1860
01:25:59,700 --> 01:26:00,660
[CLAIRE] Really?

1861
01:26:00,660 --> 01:26:01,500
[TERESA] Really.

1862
01:26:01,500 --> 01:26:04,980
But there are some, most of them, one and a,

1863
01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:07,140
I can't do, I think you can do 2x speed.

1864
01:26:07,140 --> 01:26:08,460
I can't do 2x speed.

1865
01:26:08,460 --> 01:26:11,300
I get anxious listening at 2x speed

1866
01:26:11,300 --> 01:26:12,820
because the people are talking so fast.

1867
01:26:12,820 --> 01:26:14,380
They're going like this and it makes me feel like,

1868
01:26:14,380 --> 01:26:15,540
oh my God, they're in such a hurry.

1869
01:26:15,540 --> 01:26:17,140
And it makes me anxious.

1870
01:26:17,140 --> 01:26:21,140
1.5 speed is my speed up speed.

1871
01:26:21,140 --> 01:26:26,140
But anyway, no, you mentioned the multiple time zone thing.

1872
01:26:26,540 --> 01:26:30,340
And I think it's important to have an opportunity

1873
01:26:30,340 --> 01:26:34,220
for people to participate live in some way in the Discord.

1874
01:26:34,220 --> 01:26:36,500
And that's what having the multiple time zones does

1875
01:26:36,500 --> 01:26:38,860
'cause they can watch the videos later.

1876
01:26:38,860 --> 01:26:40,420
[CLAIRE] Okay, this is the perfect,

1877
01:26:40,420 --> 01:26:42,620
you've given me a softball and this is not planned.

1878
01:26:42,620 --> 01:26:45,620
For anybody listening, Teresa doesn't know this.

1879
01:26:45,620 --> 01:26:48,260
There was a tweet last night from Kelsey Hightower

1880
01:26:48,260 --> 01:26:52,020
and I loved it and it resonated with me,

1881
01:26:52,020 --> 01:26:54,620
but I wanna hear how the two of you respond.

1882
01:26:55,780 --> 01:26:59,140
He said, "My advice for small tech conferences,

1883
01:26:59,140 --> 01:27:02,460
fewer tracks and more shared experiences.

1884
01:27:02,460 --> 01:27:05,700
It's hard to resist scheduling multiple tracks,

1885
01:27:05,700 --> 01:27:07,900
especially when the majority of speakers

1886
01:27:07,900 --> 01:27:09,940
are paying to speak."

1887
01:27:09,940 --> 01:27:11,600
And I'll explain that in a second.

1888
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,380
"Too many tracks dilutes the audience

1889
01:27:14,380 --> 01:27:17,900
and doesn't set the speakers up for success."

1890
01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:19,700
And what he means by majority of speakers

1891
01:27:19,700 --> 01:27:22,760
are paying to speak is he means that like,

1892
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,820
people have to fly themselves to the event.

1893
01:27:25,820 --> 01:27:28,740
People have to not spend their day at work

1894
01:27:28,740 --> 01:27:29,620
doing something else,

1895
01:27:29,620 --> 01:27:33,140
but instead spend their day at the conference, right?

1896
01:27:33,140 --> 01:27:36,300
So the speaking, sharing that expertise,

1897
01:27:36,300 --> 01:27:37,480
paying to get yourself there,

1898
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:40,860
like that is a contribution, if you will, right?

1899
01:27:40,860 --> 01:27:42,780
So anyway, his advice,

1900
01:27:42,780 --> 01:27:45,660
fewer tracks and more shared experiences.

1901
01:27:45,660 --> 01:27:47,380
What do you think about that?

1902
01:27:47,380 --> 01:27:49,420
[TERESA] Well, one of the structures

1903
01:27:49,420 --> 01:27:50,660
when we were trying to figure out

1904
01:27:50,660 --> 01:27:55,660
the structure for this year was to run,

1905
01:27:55,660 --> 01:27:59,960
like one option was instead of going over two days,

1906
01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:02,420
was to run two tracks,

1907
01:28:02,420 --> 01:28:07,420
you know, still have four live streams,

1908
01:28:07,420 --> 01:28:10,420
but competing against each other.

1909
01:28:10,420 --> 01:28:12,460
And we, like, I agree.

1910
01:28:12,460 --> 01:28:17,460
I think that facing it and having it

1911
01:28:18,900 --> 01:28:21,220
where we have a single thing

1912
01:28:21,220 --> 01:28:24,780
that people need to pay attention to at any one time,

1913
01:28:24,780 --> 01:28:28,100
I would agree for our size events.

1914
01:28:28,100 --> 01:28:33,100
Now, if we ultimately ended up with twice as many talks

1915
01:28:33,100 --> 01:28:41,980
and we could, what do I wanna say?

1916
01:28:41,980 --> 01:28:47,140
Categorize them by a potential audience, then maybe,

1917
01:28:47,900 --> 01:28:50,980
but for the event that we have now,

1918
01:28:50,980 --> 01:28:53,120
single track is definitely makes sense.

1919
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:57,180
[AARON] I think it's very much to do with scale as well.

1920
01:28:57,180 --> 01:28:59,580
I take the example in the Kubernetes community,

1921
01:28:59,580 --> 01:29:01,860
for example, KubeCon as it's grown.

1922
01:29:01,860 --> 01:29:04,220
I think as you get something

1923
01:29:04,220 --> 01:29:06,380
that just gets bigger and bigger and bigger,

1924
01:29:06,380 --> 01:29:08,820
and Kelsey is from the Cloud Native community

1925
01:29:08,820 --> 01:29:11,580
and has been a staple in the Cloud Native community,

1926
01:29:11,580 --> 01:29:13,780
it can just be absolutely overwhelming.

1927
01:29:13,780 --> 01:29:14,900
You go to a conference, you know,

1928
01:29:14,900 --> 01:29:16,060
you don't even know where to look.

1929
01:29:16,060 --> 01:29:18,060
People say, oh, go build your schedule.

1930
01:29:18,060 --> 01:29:19,860
You're not really building your schedule

1931
01:29:19,860 --> 01:29:21,980
and choosing between three and four different tracks

1932
01:29:21,980 --> 01:29:23,380
and saying, I'll see this one, I'll see this one,

1933
01:29:23,380 --> 01:29:24,280
I'll see this one.

1934
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,300
It really ends up being sort of almost a random

1935
01:29:27,300 --> 01:29:29,660
pull out of the pot.

1936
01:29:29,660 --> 01:29:32,940
And the track that so many people are really there for

1937
01:29:32,940 --> 01:29:34,060
is the hallway track.

1938
01:29:34,060 --> 01:29:36,300
And I think anything you can do

1939
01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:39,260
that gives that shared context to people

1940
01:29:39,260 --> 01:29:41,980
and allows them to talk about things

1941
01:29:41,980 --> 01:29:45,260
and connect around the content

1942
01:29:45,260 --> 01:29:46,780
really does help.

1943
01:29:46,780 --> 01:29:50,460
But that also means that these smaller conferences

1944
01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:53,100
are incredibly valuable.

1945
01:29:53,100 --> 01:29:54,820
The focus is valuable

1946
01:29:54,820 --> 01:29:57,460
and building those shared experiences is valuable.

1947
01:29:57,460 --> 01:29:59,220
And I remember being at PyCon some years back

1948
01:29:59,220 --> 01:30:01,860
and PyCon is the largest Python conference.

1949
01:30:01,860 --> 01:30:04,380
It's the main primary Python conference.

1950
01:30:04,380 --> 01:30:05,260
But it would be capped,

1951
01:30:05,260 --> 01:30:08,000
they were saying next year it's gonna be in this city,

1952
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,320
but it is gonna be capped at this size.

1953
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:12,580
So the only way we can scale

1954
01:30:12,580 --> 01:30:15,140
is through more regional conferences,

1955
01:30:15,140 --> 01:30:16,900
all the regional PyCons, the PyCon Canada,

1956
01:30:16,900 --> 01:30:18,740
the PyCon such and such, PyCon such and such.

1957
01:30:18,740 --> 01:30:21,260
And that is how you achieve that scale

1958
01:30:21,260 --> 01:30:22,620
without breaking community.

1959
01:30:22,620 --> 01:30:24,500
And it is definitely a feel.

1960
01:30:24,500 --> 01:30:27,060
It doesn't matter sort of how you do with it.

1961
01:30:27,060 --> 01:30:29,260
Okay, maybe you have a single track conference

1962
01:30:29,260 --> 01:30:30,540
or a multi-track conference,

1963
01:30:30,540 --> 01:30:32,580
which is small but very carefully thought out.

1964
01:30:32,580 --> 01:30:35,140
It doesn't matter how you get that connectivity,

1965
01:30:35,140 --> 01:30:37,420
you have to build that shared context

1966
01:30:37,420 --> 01:30:39,480
and make sure you're not overwhelming people.

1967
01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:42,980
But I do think that trends towards seeing more of that

1968
01:30:42,980 --> 01:30:44,700
in the smaller and more focused

1969
01:30:44,700 --> 01:30:47,300
and more community centric events.

1970
01:30:47,300 --> 01:30:50,920
[CLAIRE] All right.

1971
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,580
Well, listen, this has been a fabulous podcast.

1972
01:30:54,580 --> 01:30:59,580
Before we wrap up, I have a question for Teresa.

1973
01:30:59,580 --> 01:31:02,640
Is there anything else you wanna share

1974
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:06,340
with a potential conference organizer

1975
01:31:06,340 --> 01:31:08,940
who is thinking about either

1976
01:31:08,940 --> 01:31:12,600
joining an existing organizing team, right?

1977
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:17,120
Or starting up their own organizing event

1978
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:22,120
like you did with PgDay San Francisco a few years ago.

1979
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:26,660
You and Stacey Haysler were the two co-chairs

1980
01:31:26,660 --> 01:31:27,580
of that organizing team.

1981
01:31:27,580 --> 01:31:29,980
But any inspiration, any guidance,

1982
01:31:29,980 --> 01:31:32,360
any like what's your top recommendation?

1983
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,560
[TERESA] That's a really good question.

1984
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:38,380
I wish you had sent that to me earlier

1985
01:31:38,380 --> 01:31:40,500
so that I could like think about it a little bit.

1986
01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:43,800
But this is what popped in my head.

1987
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:45,400
So two things.

1988
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:50,400
First thing is just know that it is a lot of work

1989
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:53,360
and it's very gratifying.

1990
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:54,920
So know that going in,

1991
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,720
be ready to spend a good chunk of time on it.

1992
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:01,520
And secondly, I would say to

1993
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:09,680
build your team that is diverse

1994
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,280
in terms of skills,

1995
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:15,280
but also super flexible

1996
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:20,280
and willing to hop in on tasks

1997
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:24,880
they're not necessarily familiar with and help out.

1998
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:29,360
So yeah, the two things would be know it's work,

1999
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:33,720
know it's fun and build your team.

2000
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:35,480
Think about how you build your team.

2001
01:32:35,480 --> 01:32:37,360
[CLAIRE] All right.

2002
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:39,520
And I'm gonna drop a link into the show notes

2003
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,200
as well because as I asked the question,

2004
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:45,440
I remembered that you and Henrietta Dombrovskaya

2005
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:48,080
gave a talk at PG Conf EU last year

2006
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,240
about running a PGDay, right?

2007
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:52,560
[TERESA] We did.

2008
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:54,720
[CLAIRE] In your city. And I think I know there were a whole bunch of people

2009
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:57,180
in that session taking notes

2010
01:32:57,180 --> 01:32:58,120
and they were taking notes

2011
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,720
because they have since started their own PGDay.

2012
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,320
So I think it had a positive impact

2013
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:06,100
on those folks certainly.

2014
01:33:06,100 --> 01:33:08,920
So thank you.

2015
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:11,000
Aaron, thank you very much as well.

2016
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:12,820
Thank you, Teresa,

2017
01:33:12,820 --> 01:33:17,820
for being part of this making of POSETTE podcast discussion.

2018
01:33:17,820 --> 01:33:20,440
The next episode is gonna be recorded live

2019
01:33:20,440 --> 01:33:24,320
on Wednesday, July 10th at 10 a.m. PDT.

2020
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:28,320
The guest will be Alicja Kucharczyk.

2021
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,040
Alicja is based in Poland.

2022
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:31,280
She works at Microsoft.

2023
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:33,400
She's very active in the Postgres community

2024
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:36,880
and she is an expert at helping Postgres users

2025
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:41,800
optimize their configurations, their settings,

2026
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,160
their workflows, and their use of Postgres.

2027
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,520
And so the topic will be becoming a Postgres consultant.

2028
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,480
If you wanna mark your calendar right now,

2029
01:33:49,480 --> 01:33:54,480
you can go to aka.ms/pathtocituscon-ep17-cal

2030
01:33:54,480 --> 01:34:00,200
and you can always get to past episodes

2031
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:02,760
and get links to all the various podcast platforms

2032
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:03,900
where you can subscribe.

2033
01:34:03,900 --> 01:34:08,900
And we love subscribers at aka.ms/pathtocituscon

2034
01:34:08,900 --> 01:34:12,920
Transcripts are included on all the episode pages

2035
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:14,340
on Transistor too,

2036
01:34:14,340 --> 01:34:18,720
so you can also get to those at aka.ms/pathtocituscon.

2037
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:23,020
We do plan to rename this podcast in the July timeframe.

2038
01:34:23,020 --> 01:34:24,360
So in the future,

2039
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,380
you will find us online as Talking Postgres,

2040
01:34:27,380 --> 01:34:29,060
but we will make sure that all the links

2041
01:34:29,060 --> 01:34:31,100
I just shared with you still work

2042
01:34:31,100 --> 01:34:34,580
and take you to the new Talking Postgres name.

2043
01:34:34,580 --> 01:34:37,780
Before we leave, if you have enjoyed the podcast,

2044
01:34:37,780 --> 01:34:39,340
please rate and review us

2045
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and just it'll help other people discover the show.

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Or you can post a compliment

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on your favorite social media platform,

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whether that is X or Mastodon or LinkedIn

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or Threads or wherever.

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And a big thank you to all the wonderful people

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who joined the recording live today

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and participated in the text chat on Discord.