WEBVTT 00:00:05.010 --> 00:00:07.710 Matt Abrahams: The effort you put in, in terms of practice and 00:00:07.710 --> 00:00:12.390 preparation, have a huge impact on the quality of your communication. 00:00:13.350 --> 00:00:16.800 My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.600 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.260 Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:23.365 --> 00:00:26.304 Today I am excited to speak with Chiney Ogwumike. 00:00:26.875 --> 00:00:31.945 Chiney is a professional basketball player, an NBA and WNBA analyst 00:00:31.945 --> 00:00:35.875 for ESPN, and an advocate for gender equality in sports. 00:00:36.205 --> 00:00:40.375 She, along with her sister Nneka, were star basketball players at Stanford. 00:00:40.795 --> 00:00:43.254 Chiney, I am thrilled to have you join me. 00:00:43.315 --> 00:00:44.245 Thanks for being here. 00:00:44.695 --> 00:00:45.745 Chiney Ogwumike: Thanks for having me. 00:00:45.745 --> 00:00:48.025 This is definitely a Bucket list podcast. 00:00:48.385 --> 00:00:49.224 Matt Abrahams: Should we get started? 00:00:49.614 --> 00:00:50.060 Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, let's do it. 00:00:50.850 --> 00:00:54.600 Matt Abrahams: Unlike some sports that have time for in-game planning 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.050 and communication, think of like a football huddle, basketball 00:00:58.050 --> 00:00:59.790 is incredibly fast paced. 00:01:00.089 --> 00:01:04.349 How did you manage to communicate effectively and quickly while on the go? 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:06.810 Chiney Ogwumike: The cool thing about sports is that it forces 00:01:06.810 --> 00:01:10.380 you to communicate, whether you are someone that is vocal or not. 00:01:10.380 --> 00:01:12.960 You have to be able to use your voice, find your voice. 00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:14.789 That doesn't mean you have to talk a lot, it just means that you 00:01:14.789 --> 00:01:18.720 have to communicate the important messages because we are all one team. 00:01:19.155 --> 00:01:22.275 Communication is essential when it comes to team sports and basketball. 00:01:22.275 --> 00:01:24.585 We'll test that because it's also a cardio sport. 00:01:24.585 --> 00:01:27.735 So like you have to communicate, you have to look, you have to do nonverbal cues 00:01:27.735 --> 00:01:31.934 like all of that matters when it comes to trying to achieve your ultimate goal. 00:01:32.324 --> 00:01:35.085 Matt Abrahams: And would you work with your teammates to come up 00:01:35.085 --> 00:01:39.464 with some shorthand or ways of communicating more quickly or in that 00:01:39.464 --> 00:01:41.324 moment so you could perform better? 00:01:41.684 --> 00:01:42.375 Chiney Ogwumike: Oh, absolutely. 00:01:42.375 --> 00:01:45.255 One of the things that I learned from the greatest coach I've ever 00:01:45.255 --> 00:01:49.845 played for, iconic, Tara VanDerveer, is, she's very big on symbols. 00:01:50.145 --> 00:01:53.205 Because oftentimes there's so many things in this world that can be distractions, 00:01:53.205 --> 00:01:56.885 that can be things that can be used to sort of deflect what your goal 00:01:56.885 --> 00:01:58.325 is or what you're trying to achieve. 00:01:58.565 --> 00:02:03.335 That coach, Tara, she taught us symbols, one, two, three, four, or just, you 00:02:03.335 --> 00:02:08.195 know, shapes or just, you know, movements that can be read no matter who's 00:02:08.195 --> 00:02:12.245 in the room, whether that room is a small practice gym or Maples Pavilion. 00:02:12.545 --> 00:02:17.135 It's interesting because the best, most gratifying moments that I've had, not just 00:02:17.135 --> 00:02:21.170 in basketball, also in, as a broadcaster, is when you're able to work with someone, 00:02:21.880 --> 00:02:26.200 you're doing something at a high level and you are communicating even non-verbally. 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:29.520 Because it really shows you the essence of chemistry. 00:02:29.670 --> 00:02:32.250 And I found that on the court, and I've also found that in the studio. 00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:32.940 Matt Abrahams: Wow. 00:02:32.940 --> 00:02:37.620 So this notion of trust really underlies a lot of this, and it's multi-channel. 00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:39.900 It's not just the words you use, it's the symbols and the 00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:42.660 non-verbal that really matter, and working on it makes a difference. 00:02:42.660 --> 00:02:45.420 And I'd love that you've seen that both in your playing life, but in 00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:46.540 also in your professional life. 00:02:47.290 --> 00:02:51.430 Playing professional basketball requires performing under immense pressure. 00:02:51.430 --> 00:02:54.970 I can't imagine what it feels like to shoot a free throw with thousands 00:02:54.970 --> 00:02:56.380 of people yelling and screaming. 00:02:56.710 --> 00:03:01.030 What mental strategies do you use to stay calm and focused during high 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:04.540 pressure situations, both when you're on the court, but also when you're on 00:03:04.540 --> 00:03:06.160 the screen or in your everyday life? 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.060 Chiney Ogwumike: It sounds so corny, but it's true. 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:13.590 The older I get, the more I realize that these old adages actually make sense. 00:03:13.590 --> 00:03:16.530 People are saying it for a reason and it keeps getting passed on 00:03:16.530 --> 00:03:17.760 from generation to generation. 00:03:18.149 --> 00:03:21.030 Practice makes perfect, and I love that you brought up the free throw 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:22.424 because that was where I had my fear. 00:03:23.459 --> 00:03:26.809 I was very afraid as a freshman at Stanford University to shoot free 00:03:26.809 --> 00:03:28.260 throws because I wasn't great at it. 00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:31.290 But there is freedom on the other side of your fear. 00:03:31.679 --> 00:03:35.609 Meaning if you go in there and you practice and you do the repetition, 00:03:35.940 --> 00:03:38.850 a repetition of errors means it shows a lack of intelligence. 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:42.540 Like you keep making the same mistakes, it shows that you're not capable of 00:03:42.540 --> 00:03:45.750 retaining information so that you can be better and erase those mistakes. 00:03:45.989 --> 00:03:49.200 So for me, I was like a sixty percent free throw shooter when I came to Stanford. 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:51.119 And I'm not gonna lie, exactly what you talked about. 00:03:51.420 --> 00:03:54.450 We'd have our, you know, Maple Pavilion is just rocking. 00:03:54.690 --> 00:03:56.940 I would always tell people my hands didn't feel like my hands because I 00:03:56.940 --> 00:04:00.150 was over conscious of what I looked like, what I felt like in that moment. 00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:01.380 So what did I do? 00:04:01.590 --> 00:04:05.460 I just went, during practice, after everything was done, to the corner, 00:04:05.730 --> 00:04:08.070 and I just kept shooting free throw after free throw after free throw. 00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:11.910 And now, when I got to the pros, I was so confident in my free 00:04:11.910 --> 00:04:14.670 throws that people would say, Chiney, you know, end of practice. 00:04:14.670 --> 00:04:18.209 It's either you make it or we have to run down and back. 00:04:18.810 --> 00:04:22.029 I'd go up there and I'd knock down my free throw, and it was a mental thing. 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:24.000 My dad loves the mind over matter. 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:29.550 Giving yourself that notion that I have practiced this, I am a master of this. 00:04:29.695 --> 00:04:33.030 All I have to do is do what I do, no matter the circumstance. 00:04:33.030 --> 00:04:37.380 And so that's sort of what helped me when it came to addressing situations 00:04:37.380 --> 00:04:41.130 that I felt like were bigger than me, but I knew I could meet that moment. 00:04:41.820 --> 00:04:44.520 Matt Abrahams: So taking the time to confront the fear and 00:04:44.520 --> 00:04:45.600 practice your way through it. 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.690 I love that notion of there's freedom on the other side of fear, 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.350 but you have to to commit and do the work and it has great payoffs. 00:04:52.859 --> 00:04:56.700 And I think a lot of people listening in have fear of speaking in front of 00:04:56.700 --> 00:05:00.030 others or standing up in high stake situations and, and there are things 00:05:00.030 --> 00:05:01.590 that we can do to practice to help. 00:05:01.619 --> 00:05:05.380 Taking classes, listening to a show like this, doing Toastmasters. 00:05:05.400 --> 00:05:09.119 There are all these ways to get that practice and those reps in. 00:05:09.119 --> 00:05:10.080 Thank you for sharing that. 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.159 You have had several coaches over your career, what have you noticed that 00:05:14.159 --> 00:05:18.030 great coaches do to motivate their players and how have you taken some of 00:05:18.030 --> 00:05:21.690 those learnings into what you do when you have to motivate other people? 00:05:22.110 --> 00:05:26.130 Chiney Ogwumike: My mom has always had a saying that I have internalized, tiny 00:05:26.130 --> 00:05:28.229 drops of water make a mighty ocean. 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:33.060 And when I think about great coaches and being able to address maybe fears, whether 00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:38.310 it is communication or performance, I go to that saying, and it marries with 00:05:38.310 --> 00:05:42.465 what coach Tara, I learned by watching her for four years, is showing up as 00:05:42.465 --> 00:05:43.935 the same person each and every day. 00:05:44.295 --> 00:05:50.085 And that to me is the number one thing that we can do to be able to put ourselves 00:05:50.085 --> 00:05:53.415 in a position to have that growth. 00:05:53.415 --> 00:05:57.195 I think oftentimes the best things in life are things you work out over long periods 00:05:57.195 --> 00:06:04.305 of time, and so being in an environment where I have learned and watched so 00:06:04.305 --> 00:06:10.560 many great coaches show up as the same person, whether it's win or loss, approach 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.270 preparation at the highest levels, and then know that you give your all no 00:06:15.270 --> 00:06:17.010 matter what the outcome is gonna be, 00:06:17.430 --> 00:06:21.630 that to me is what moves the goalpost forward inch by inch, not 00:06:21.630 --> 00:06:23.610 just on those Hail Mary touchdowns. 00:06:23.640 --> 00:06:26.220 It's like those incremental things that are sustainable. 00:06:26.775 --> 00:06:29.955 Those tiny drops of water that builds an ocean that can change the 00:06:29.955 --> 00:06:31.724 tides of how you perceive yourself. 00:06:32.115 --> 00:06:37.094 Great people, great communicators, anyone that's working at something, at a skill, 00:06:37.365 --> 00:06:40.695 show up as the same person each and every day and just chip away, chip away, 00:06:40.695 --> 00:06:44.055 chip away at it, into the point where they turn that weakness into a strength. 00:06:44.325 --> 00:06:47.145 And then after turning that into a strength, they go onto another 00:06:47.169 --> 00:06:50.619 skill and harness that skillset to the point where you're a master. 00:06:51.460 --> 00:06:54.054 Matt Abrahams: I really like your mother's saying of the, the 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:55.450 drops leading into the ocean. 00:06:55.450 --> 00:06:58.390 I think that's a really powerful metaphor for what you're talking 00:06:58.390 --> 00:07:02.770 about, which is it takes time and it takes practice, and the great coaches 00:07:03.109 --> 00:07:05.780 focus on the, the little things. 00:07:05.780 --> 00:07:07.700 It's not the, the, the big thing right away. 00:07:07.700 --> 00:07:10.070 It's these little steps that get you to that greatness. 00:07:10.489 --> 00:07:13.940 I do wanna talk a little bit about your move into broadcasting. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.229 Uh, you know, broadcasting, especially sports broadcasting, is a male dominated 00:07:18.260 --> 00:07:20.000 profession, although it is changing. 00:07:20.415 --> 00:07:23.715 How have you dealt with being part of a profession where there aren't 00:07:23.715 --> 00:07:26.355 lots of people similar to yourself? 00:07:26.625 --> 00:07:30.465 Many of our listeners can relate to not being like others that 00:07:30.495 --> 00:07:33.495 they work with in terms of age, gender, experience, et cetera. 00:07:33.855 --> 00:07:37.215 How have you handled that and what have you done to help yourself 00:07:37.215 --> 00:07:42.130 feel more comfortable but also help others see the value that you bring. 00:07:42.700 --> 00:07:45.040 Chiney Ogwumike: So the biggest challenge that I had when I just 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.970 started becoming a broadcaster, and the way I sum it up, is this saying, 00:07:49.270 --> 00:07:51.020 they see you before they hear you. 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:54.280 They judge you before they know you, but they still can't stop you. 00:07:54.400 --> 00:08:00.250 And being in this field, it's very similar to playing because when I played and 00:08:00.250 --> 00:08:03.700 I miss a shot and it's on national TV, everyone saw that I missed that shot. 00:08:03.910 --> 00:08:05.410 Very similar to broadcast. 00:08:05.410 --> 00:08:09.040 If I forget a player's name or I mess up on a breakdown. 00:08:09.390 --> 00:08:10.619 Everyone's gonna see that. 00:08:10.650 --> 00:08:12.510 That's my voice, that's my face. 00:08:12.900 --> 00:08:15.359 But one thing I have found that I think people don't realize 00:08:15.359 --> 00:08:17.640 is perfection is overrated. 00:08:18.570 --> 00:08:20.789 Missing shots teach you how to make shots. 00:08:21.870 --> 00:08:25.710 Making mistakes teach you how to protect yourself from having those 00:08:25.710 --> 00:08:27.330 types of situations in the future. 00:08:27.599 --> 00:08:30.719 And also, I think there's this thing in communication that people don't realize. 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:34.890 Not many people, if any, are perfect communicators. 00:08:35.130 --> 00:08:38.100 We're gonna stutter, we're gonna stammer, we're gonna forget a 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:39.840 name, we're gonna forget a place. 00:08:40.439 --> 00:08:46.020 What you do when that happens is what defines how you are as a communicator. 00:08:46.395 --> 00:08:50.805 Those are the things where you accept your humanity, and I think that actually makes 00:08:50.805 --> 00:08:55.245 you more relatable, being unapologetically yourself, being real, being honest. 00:08:55.575 --> 00:09:01.515 As long as you believe in it and you are prepared and you have intentions 00:09:01.605 --> 00:09:05.955 in when you are trying to communicate your message, the rest is a non-factor. 00:09:06.225 --> 00:09:07.725 And so to me, that's the biggest thing. 00:09:07.725 --> 00:09:09.795 Like communication is not flawless. 00:09:10.275 --> 00:09:11.745 It's a learning exercise. 00:09:11.745 --> 00:09:13.305 It's something you continue to grow at. 00:09:13.305 --> 00:09:16.665 It's something you continue to master, but there's no one that is a absolute 00:09:16.665 --> 00:09:18.135 to the T perfect communicator. 00:09:18.525 --> 00:09:19.935 Matt Abrahams: At the end of the day, what you're really talking 00:09:19.935 --> 00:09:21.685 about is authenticity, right? 00:09:21.685 --> 00:09:26.205 The bottom line is be yourself, but this notion of there is no perfect 00:09:26.205 --> 00:09:28.515 communication and stressing out over it. 00:09:28.635 --> 00:09:30.615 Absolutely one hundred percent correct. 00:09:30.975 --> 00:09:34.245 You need to come teach my class, because that's one of the biggest messages 00:09:34.245 --> 00:09:38.870 that I try to get across to my MBA students is that there is no perfect. 00:09:38.870 --> 00:09:40.160 There's better and there's worse. 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:42.140 But as you said, we learn from that. 00:09:42.140 --> 00:09:45.740 And what I really like is, you know, the question I asked is, you're in 00:09:45.740 --> 00:09:49.580 a space where there aren't a lot of people who have your background, have 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:54.140 your experience, and yet you have carved out a space because of that 00:09:54.140 --> 00:09:57.830 authenticity, because of that willingness to just show up and be your best. 00:09:57.830 --> 00:09:59.480 And if that's not perfect, that's okay. 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:00.620 Keep working at it. 00:10:00.620 --> 00:10:02.870 And I think there's a lesson in there for all of us. 00:10:02.870 --> 00:10:05.930 Now that requires a certain degree of confidence though. 00:10:06.500 --> 00:10:10.400 And it sounds like that confidence has built in you through your preparation, 00:10:10.400 --> 00:10:13.460 through the support system you have from your coaches, your family. 00:10:13.910 --> 00:10:18.290 I'd like to talk specifically in detail about the broadcasting you do. 00:10:18.590 --> 00:10:22.460 You on a regular basis are in front of large audiences. 00:10:22.790 --> 00:10:26.930 What rules and practices have you found helpful in communicating a 00:10:26.930 --> 00:10:31.450 lot of detailed information, and yet making it accessible and engaging? 00:10:31.450 --> 00:10:35.050 It's fun to watch you break down a play or talk about something. 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.410 But when you think about it, you're covering a whole lot of 00:10:38.410 --> 00:10:40.210 really technical information. 00:10:40.420 --> 00:10:43.960 Do you rely on particular tools or strategies to do that? 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:47.410 Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, there are a couple of strategies, and so I guess the easiest 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:51.010 way to answer this is to give you a little bit of insight into my routine. 00:10:51.010 --> 00:10:55.380 So I typically come into the studio earlier than most analysts. 00:10:55.380 --> 00:10:58.110 Because one thing I've realized, especially as being a woman 00:10:58.110 --> 00:11:01.335 speaking on the MBA, people wanna be like, oh, but what do you know? 00:11:01.335 --> 00:11:02.595 You never played in the NBA. 00:11:02.805 --> 00:11:04.965 What I do know are numbers and facts. 00:11:05.205 --> 00:11:08.745 So I love sitting down with my researchers because they're the ones 00:11:08.745 --> 00:11:11.055 that help me substantiate my opinions. 00:11:11.175 --> 00:11:15.015 In a dream world, having my blanket opinion would be great, but one 00:11:15.015 --> 00:11:18.675 thing I've realized is people like opinion and also fact to back it up. 00:11:18.975 --> 00:11:22.064 And so I spend a lot of time with our researchers for every argument 00:11:22.064 --> 00:11:24.885 that I have, having numbers to substantiate what I'm gonna say. 00:11:25.525 --> 00:11:30.085 Then I go up into the studio, and this is something that I think is very important 00:11:30.085 --> 00:11:33.235 because a lot of times people think that, okay, I'm just gonna go and talk. 00:11:33.505 --> 00:11:36.535 You have to get your mind right for what you're about to do. 00:11:36.865 --> 00:11:38.395 And so I have two things that I do. 00:11:38.605 --> 00:11:41.785 I say the Serenity prayer, which is God, grant me the serenity to accept 00:11:41.785 --> 00:11:44.695 the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and 00:11:44.695 --> 00:11:46.165 the wisdom to know the difference. 00:11:46.505 --> 00:11:48.545 And then this is just something I always do too. 00:11:48.604 --> 00:11:51.064 I say the angel of God, my guardian dear, that prayer. 00:11:51.064 --> 00:11:53.675 I say that every time I get on a flight too, just because I feel 00:11:53.675 --> 00:11:54.964 like I'm entering an environment. 00:11:54.964 --> 00:11:56.285 And I did it before every game. 00:11:56.314 --> 00:11:58.625 I did those two things before every basketball game too. 00:11:58.925 --> 00:12:04.055 Just like giving my protection in this moment to my spirituality 00:12:04.055 --> 00:12:07.444 and also understanding that I have power to really help shape 00:12:07.444 --> 00:12:08.915 narratives that are my passions. 00:12:09.275 --> 00:12:10.234 So that's step two. 00:12:10.234 --> 00:12:11.314 So step one is research. 00:12:11.314 --> 00:12:14.224 Step two is getting my mind into the place where I can perform. 00:12:14.704 --> 00:12:17.940 And then step three is threes, actually. 00:12:18.270 --> 00:12:22.740 What I have found is that people can take information the best in threes. 00:12:23.130 --> 00:12:26.190 When you just have a blanket statement, people are looking for more. 00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:29.040 You know, LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time. 00:12:29.370 --> 00:12:29.730 Great. 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:30.660 Now tell me why. 00:12:31.170 --> 00:12:36.140 Now, if you have a deluge of facts, then you might get lost in the sauce. 00:12:36.290 --> 00:12:39.680 So three key points are very easy to be retained. 00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:42.979 Matt Abrahams: So like you did as a player, there was a lot 00:12:42.979 --> 00:12:44.180 of work that went into that. 00:12:44.180 --> 00:12:46.489 I really appreciate several things you said. 00:12:46.489 --> 00:12:49.430 First and foremost, you have to have your approach and mindset down, 00:12:49.430 --> 00:12:53.420 and you found a routine that works for you to help you feel empowered 00:12:53.420 --> 00:12:54.709 and to help you feel focused. 00:12:54.709 --> 00:12:55.609 And that's critical. 00:12:55.819 --> 00:12:59.949 Again, it comes down to the repetition, the practise, the learning, the detail. 00:13:00.069 --> 00:13:04.960 And then I really like that you are mindful of how you actually 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:06.490 structure the information. 00:13:06.490 --> 00:13:09.069 You don't just give people a deluge of information. 00:13:09.069 --> 00:13:12.760 You are very mindful of making a clear point and then supporting 00:13:12.760 --> 00:13:14.770 it, but not with too much detail. 00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:17.890 And that's, I think, a lesson for all of us that we have to 00:13:17.890 --> 00:13:19.150 prepare ourselves mentally. 00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:23.080 We have to know our stuff, show up authentically, and then package it in a 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:28.320 way that people can remember it, and give them what they need but not too much more. 00:13:28.515 --> 00:13:32.475 That was a great distillation of what I think makes for effective communication. 00:13:33.165 --> 00:13:36.314 Before we end, I like to ask all my guests three questions. 00:13:36.314 --> 00:13:38.895 One I create just for you, and the other two are similar 00:13:38.895 --> 00:13:40.395 across everybody I interview. 00:13:40.395 --> 00:13:41.085 Are you up for that? 00:13:41.385 --> 00:13:42.255 Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:42.255 --> 00:13:42.795 I'm down. 00:13:43.095 --> 00:13:47.070 Matt Abrahams: My first question is, if you had an opportunity to speak to young 00:13:47.070 --> 00:13:50.850 women, women coming out of college, or of that age, starting their careers for the 00:13:50.850 --> 00:13:55.230 first time, what's one bit of advice you would give them beyond what you've talked 00:13:55.230 --> 00:13:57.060 about, in terms of show up, be authentic. 00:13:57.060 --> 00:13:59.100 You know, is there something else you would share with young 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.070 women who are entering the workforce or their first career? 00:14:02.715 --> 00:14:05.865 Chiney Ogwumike: I think it's such a unique time and I don't take these moments 00:14:05.865 --> 00:14:12.225 for granted, and so what I would share to the rising generation of young women is 00:14:12.225 --> 00:14:14.805 that you belong and so does your voice. 00:14:15.075 --> 00:14:21.495 I think oftentimes in society we look at the idea of comparison being the thief of 00:14:21.495 --> 00:14:26.475 joy instead of staying true to your own path and being authentically yourself. 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:30.390 To me, that's what has changed the game. 00:14:31.140 --> 00:14:33.180 Matt Abrahams: So much richness in that response. 00:14:33.180 --> 00:14:36.444 The thing that really resonated with me is the you belong. 00:14:37.455 --> 00:14:42.585 Your voice matters, and I, I hope young women, young men, everybody 00:14:42.675 --> 00:14:44.865 listens to that and takes that advice. 00:14:45.525 --> 00:14:50.295 Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why? 00:14:50.715 --> 00:14:53.735 Chiney Ogwumike: The first person that comes to my mind is Lisa Leslie. 00:14:54.155 --> 00:14:56.895 Probably a deceptive pick or an obvious pick 'cause I come from 00:14:56.895 --> 00:14:58.095 the world of women's basketball. 00:14:58.425 --> 00:15:02.935 But communication is not just what we say verbally, it's how you carry yourself. 00:15:02.935 --> 00:15:04.905 What are you communicating to the world? 00:15:05.145 --> 00:15:08.834 You know, I think that's one of the things that I didn't understand until I 00:15:08.834 --> 00:15:13.545 had a platform and people look to me as someone that they could aspire to be. 00:15:13.935 --> 00:15:17.895 If I'm walking down the street, how I carry myself is communication. 00:15:17.975 --> 00:15:21.944 Just as much as me on the broadcast, just as much as me playing on the court. 00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:26.570 And so Lisa, in being able to have her as a mentor, the way she carried 00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:30.830 herself at the time, which was so huge at the genesis of the WNBA, coming 00:15:30.830 --> 00:15:34.790 off of the 96th Olympics, changed the game for so many women in sports. 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:40.640 And then on top of it, to pivot into being a mother, a sister, an entrepreneur, a 00:15:40.640 --> 00:15:44.000 broadcaster, an entertainer, just an icon. 00:15:44.180 --> 00:15:48.080 How you carry yourself matters just as much as what you say. 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.370 And so I, I always shout her out. 00:15:50.819 --> 00:15:52.260 Matt Abrahams: Lemme ask our final question. 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:57.300 What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe? 00:15:58.020 --> 00:15:59.200 Chiney Ogwumike: Preparation. 00:15:59.560 --> 00:16:00.630 Authenticity. 00:16:01.090 --> 00:16:01.970 And purpose. 00:16:02.650 --> 00:16:03.170 Matt Abrahams: I love it. 00:16:03.170 --> 00:16:06.300 Preparation, which doesn't surprise me based on what you've talked about, 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.950 authenticity as well, and then having a clear purpose in mind and certainly 00:16:10.950 --> 00:16:12.690 you are somebody who is purpose driven. 00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:14.940 Chiney, this has been phenomenal. 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:15.690 Thank you. 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:20.400 Not only did you teach a lot of players lessons on the court, you teach a lot 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:22.620 of people lessons in your broadcasting. 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:23.430 Thank you. 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.590 Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think 00:16:28.590 --> 00:16:30.720 Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.620 To learn more about leadership and communication from sports stars, listen 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:39.885 to episode 166 with Andrew Luck and episode 153 with Tara VanDerveer. 00:16:40.245 --> 00:16:44.415 This episode was produced by Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:16:44.685 --> 00:16:46.365 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:16:46.605 --> 00:16:48.855 With thanks to Podium Podcast Company. 00:16:49.335 --> 00:16:52.725 Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:16:53.055 --> 00:16:54.975 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:16:55.215 --> 00:16:57.605 Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. 00:16:58.005 --> 00:17:01.995 And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language 00:17:01.995 --> 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