The Modern Hotelier - Episode #9 - Travel, Hospitality & The MetaVerse | with Michael Cohen
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Michael Cohen: This is not about hardware investments.

This is not about refreshes. This is not about, I gotta wait until, better bandwidth is in the properties. This is 4g, 5g, and every one of your guests has the tool in their hand every day. That's why augmented reality for travel and hospitality is a slam dunk. You Welcome to The Modern Hotelier presented by Stayflexi. I'm your host, David Millili.

Steve Carran: And I'm Steve Carran

David Millili: steve, who do we have on the show?

Steve Carran: Yeah. David today we have on Michael Cohen. Michael's an innovative tech leader and a metaverse advisor for the global travel hospitality and retail space. 

Michael Cohen: Oh, yeah. 

Steve Carran: to reality, Michael Michael is, uh, uh,he's a metaverse advisor and managing partner at tech partner. He's also an advisor and board member for Ugo virtual and an advisor to the CEO at Messerschmitt systems.

Previously, Michael was focusing on customer facing technology and business development with companies like AT&T Interrail Angie hospitality and track and protect. So welcome to the show, Michael, we're happy to have you.

great to be here. I've really enjoyed, what you. guys have been doing for the industry, uh, in the previous podcast. So it's a, it's an honor. 

Steve Carran: Thank you.

David Millili: Thank you. So, so Michael, the format today, we're going to ask you some short questions to get to know you better. We're going to talk about your career and then we're going to get your insights into trends what's going on in the. All right. So here we go. What was your first job?

Michael Cohen: Wow. My first job was I had that, uh, starting the mail room scenario as a 21 year old. so that Was my first job and it? was in the, uh, national advertising company. I wanted to be a copywriter and it creative and they had two opportunities and one was the receptionist and one was as a mailroom clerk and I don't want it the receptionist job, but they gave me the mail.

Steve Carran: Was it? I have a follow-up was it like the mail room in elf? I don't know if you've seen that. 

Michael Cohen: Yeah, it was pretty close. It's more like the mail room in the Michael J. Fox movie and trauma. What it's called again. But yeah, it was, it.

was, I met everybody and learned how to listen, but, but back to David's quick, quick answers. Yeah, 

David Millili: Right. Some people tell me to take this out, but I'm going to continue to ask it because I find it fascinating. What's the weirdest thing you've seen in a hotel or one of the weirdest things. Yeah. could be as a guest could be. 

Michael Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I, once I, once in Korea, walked into my hotel room and there was a saber with dry blood on it, on the bed. How's 

David Millili: pretty good. I think you win the prize so far. Who did you admire growing up?

Michael Cohen: I really admired,politicians and industry leaders, even a young age who I realized we're international we're open-minded and we kind of, built bridges and it's true. And that's where a lot of what I do. And you all my father, who was one of those people, by the way, he wasn't a politician. He was a industrial 

David Millili: you could take one person dead or alive to lunch. Who would it be?

Michael Cohen: Hank Greenberg. 

David Millili: Who's was saying.

Uh, uh, he, he, he's a hall of fame, Detroit SciGirls hall of fame player. And, uh,my last name is Cohen, which you may know is of the Jewish persuasion. And he was. Uh, incredibly successful. He was the babe Ruth, another babe, Ruth of his era, but he dealt with a lot of challenges because of his background. 

David Millili: Best piece of advice you've ever received.

Michael Cohen: I try to remember it every day. It's hard to do. It's more important than listen and to talk and people who know me know that that's a challenge sometimes. 

David Millili: What's on your bucket list.

Michael Cohen: Yeah. The bucket list. has got smaller. Thank goodness. Over the years, I have to think about this. I would like to travel the world like I did when I was 19 years old, meeting with a backpack and seeing the world from that level, again, that level of granularity, because now we all, some of us traveled the world, but we don't see it at that level of impact. 

David Millili: Good point. What scares you?

the challenges of what's happening in the world, obviously. And the fact that, it seems that the divide is growing between people's religions, thoughts scares 

David Millili: what's something you wish you were better at.

Michael Cohen: pure math, like mathematics. 

David Millili: This round, this is the last one. Who would you rather be at man? Superman or Spiderman? You get. 

Michael Cohen: think Spiderman because Spiderman is the most accessible, still a superhero. Seems to get the girls more, which is cool. Less brooding. So that's probably 

why. 

David Millili: Alright, So now we're going to move to a new section. We're trying it out for the first time and it's for a good cause it's going to be a mini version of the final round of family feud. I'm going to ask you three questions. If you get the number one answer and each question stay flexi, we'll donate and myself, we'll donate a hundred dollars to the charity of your choice.

Are you ready? You got 20 seconds and you've got to answer these questions. Ready? 

Michael Cohen: Okay. 

David Millili: Name something. You might see a commercial for during a baseball game. 

Michael Cohen: Beer, 

David Millili: What's something you keep in your car. Just.

umbrella 

David Millili: Name a professional sport where players make a lot of money.

Michael Cohen: soccer. 

David Millili: Okay. Uh, what was the first answer? Steve?

Steve Carran: Beer.

David Millili: That was on the list, but that was actually four out of a hundred. People said, veer, the number one answer was car or truck. That surprised me. What was the answer for something to keep in your car? Umbrella is not on there. Number one, answer is money or coins number two's food or water. the next one is name of professional sport where players make a lot of money. The answer was

Steve Carran: Football F U T not F O O T

David Millili: Ah, okay.

Michael Cohen: Well, actually either one. whichever 

Steve Carran: one. 

David Millili: Well, how did he answer? Cause it's, they're both on there. You got to pick one. 

it's a north American focus, I would say basketball. 

David Millili: Okay. Basketball's number two, answer 27 responses. Number one, answer was American football, soccer or football. European football was 

had seven. So that's it. So that concludes that. So when have fun. So we didn't, but I personally will donate $50 to the charity of your choice. We'll we'll connect after the show.

Michael Cohen: 

Thanks. I will match that. So thank you very 

Steve Carran: look at that. Awesome. Awesome. So now, Michael, I want to get to know you a little bit better here. Find out what makes you tick, where where'd you grow up? Where were you born? 

so I'm a Canadian and I play an American on television and,I was born in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. So as you pal said, it was C, but, um, I'm an English Canadian born in the great city of Montreal. One of the greatest cities in the 

Steve Carran: How did growing up in Montreal shaped you as the human? You are. 

Michael Cohen: Well, one of the important considerations is that it is a bilingual mixed cultural city and. Probably the most European ish city in north America. So I have the op the good, fortunate opportunity to have a more, open and I had a lot of cultural inputs and influences and so on. And, uh, being multi-lingual is an interesting, it's a, it's a good thing.

Let's be clear. It's a good thing. It helps with brain development and it has never been a, a negative that I had some facility with multi languages and cultures. 

David Millili: There was one thing you could tell the 18 year old, Michael, what, what would you tell him?

Michael Cohen: Well, that's a heavy one. What I would tell him is to enjoy each experience. Sometimes not so great, but still try to get something out of them. Enjoy every experience, significant experience deeply because life moves fast. Things are, you know, things cascade, but that would, that's what I would say is, is, you know, take more time to really appreciate or digest the things that are happening in your life. And you'll, you'll have even more, um,uh, more of a rich experience. 

Steve Carran: Awesome. Awesome. And you went to the university of Toronto. 

Michael Cohen: Yeah, 

Steve Carran: were you involved in any clubs there? Any, any extracurricular activities that, that I guess you can share on the podcast? 

Michael Cohen: sure, sure. Well, I mean, Yeah.

exactly. well remember I, uh, I didn't go to ASU, So I didn't have that level of extracurricular activity. Actually got an education, but, uh, what's, really was interesting as well. I was involved in sports, which many of us are, I was a rugby player. so that was interesting because, you, know, you got the, you know, what kicked out of you and you had to learn how to adapt and survive.

And, you know, I was, the great thing is, is, I may not be, the biggest guy, but the fastest, I was one of the fastest all the time. And that's helped me in my life in many different scenarios. So really, really good. a lot of it was, um, interestingly was early tech. I wasn't in the geeky kind of tech world.

I was just really interested in tech and there was a lot of clubs and, computer clubs and chess clubs, which I had an entry into that more technical world. At an early age socially. So I was like a bridge between that world sometimes. And maybe the more socially comfortable side of the university and the experience.

Steve Carran: So you, you fit in multiple groups, you know, you had your rugby team, it looks like, and then you had kindy or tech focused friends and group as well.

Michael Cohen: And Steve that's, that's been, my entire experience is I've always been, I've always had a foot in multiple, groups, worlds scenarios, you know, that's really sort of where, how I developed who I am, hopefully in a good way. and, it's, it's, it's been really an interesting life, so.

David Millili: And we've all had them rationally. So your biggest, in your opinion, professional failure, what was it? And what did you learn from that? That's why it's better being here than 

over there. 

Michael Cohen: I've been, yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, exactly. Listen, I, you know, w what's interesting about my career and how everyone's career defines them in some way and molds them in some way is I had the opportunity to, to in multiple occasions so far, to be entrepreneur startup, senior vice-presidents directors of, you know, $10 billion a year companies, as one of the 57 directors of that company, I don't want overdo it. And what I would, the biggest learning experience of the failure was, you know, it's great when you get to grow your business, it's great. When you get to scale something, it's, you learn a lot when you sell your business, which I've had the pleasure in the past, but you learn the most when you owe your mother-in-law $375,000, because it didn't work out. you know, the good, you learn a lot, you learn a lot more from the challenge as they say, it's overused, but failure, needs to be respected And failure needs to be, you need to almost almost push for it at the right time in your life, because that's where you're going to learn the most.

And I know it's an old adage and everyone says that, but I'm one of the people like you guys, I'm sure who's lived through that challenge and the prosperity that came out of.

that 

David Millili: And it really does seem with, certain individuals, the ones who are afraid to fail often fail because of that, because they weren't able to do what they thought might be risky, even though they knew in their gut was the right thing to do, but it wasn't safe. So the mother-in-law, I borrowed money from my father, things of that nature where, you know, you got to get up the nerve to ask for.

But a lot of people don't and then they, they fail as a result is the unwillingness to take that risk.

Michael Cohen: Yeah, I think just to wrap up this thought is intelligent. Risk is a skill as well as a mindset. that's in corporate life. That's an entrepreneurial life. That's in your personal life in intelligent risks. having the ability to pull the trigger intelligent. 

Steve Carran: And, and Micah, if I came to visit you, what would we be we'd be doing on the weekend? What do you like to do? 

Michael Cohen: We would go to a ball game. We would, we would definitely go to cottage. We'd hang out on a deck. we, we drank incredible Italian beautiful wine that doesn't have to be $300 a bottle. If you know what you're doing, we would enjoy a wonderful barbecue. 

Steve Carran: I love that what's your baseball team. 

it's a San Francisco giants, even though I'm based in Toronto. And, but as an, as a Canadian player who plays an American on television, that's the 

Michael Cohen: giants baby.awesome. Now I'd like to learn a little more, we'd like to learn a little bit more about your career, uh, kind of, well, this is where we can dive into a little bit more about, the metaverse as well. First, I want to touch base, you know, you were in hospitality before for quite a few years before you kind of focus more on the metaverse, and you worked for quite a few different technology companies in that space at T and T Angie hospitality, track and protect.

Steve Carran: Are you surprised where technology is in hospitality right now? Did you think we'd be further ahead or did you think, you know, we're kind of right where we should be, or do you think. 

Michael Cohen: I'm a big proponent of it is what it is. So, all of us go to high-tech, all of us who are watching this podcast, you know, many of us know what that is. There's HF TP there's HTNG. and there's other international organizations that many of us are involved in have presented at I've spoken at some, in a mentor at some, we are aware, we are meaning that technology overall is a runaway train.

How fast the train is how slow the train is, what other mitigating factors have contributed to where the train is and its location and its path. That's a different conversation, but you know, I've been in, I'm still definitely heavily in the hospitality technology space. That's why, you know, this metaverse and XR leadership that I'm involved in now. That's very, you're right. You're right, Steve, that that's a wider portfolio. I worked with a lot of, different organizations, companies, brands that are outside of travel and hospitality perhaps. But my core, my home, my still traveling hospitality. What's wonderful. Is that everything that I am many more, more intelligent people than I, are involved in it and our commercializing, which is important, not just developing.

It's incredibly relevant to the travel hospitality space. So 20 years in general, and now hopefully the next 10 or 15 years with this hybrid blended scenario of, you know, hospitality technology with a deep focus, and facilitation of the metaverse and VR and AR within hospitality as well. 

Steve Carran: And I think you hit the nail on the head. We had Dr. Jeffrey O the CEO of St. Justine hotels and residences on, and he said, technology is like a train you're either in it, or you're in front of. If I misquoted him, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that 

Michael Cohen: That's it.

that's another 

way 

David Millili: think that's 

Michael Cohen: too. 

Steve Carran: Yeah. Yeah. So, how did you make that change or what was, was there a, was there a point where you decided to really make that transition? You know, I guess you didn't make a transition, but I guess more to focus on the metaverse this, this XR space, was there a turning point or something specific that made you kind of go in there?

Michael Cohen: Sure five years ago, so, you know, in, in the metaverse world, that's 50 years ago, so five years ago,I really identified and saw the potential, which is obvious maybe to some, but to people like me, it was quite obvious, but also the freedom and the impact and the ability to join everyone in the world.

And that sounds very, you know, professorial to say or something. You know, because I had earned my chops for 20 years in travel and hospitality. Text-based everything that we all do in that space is about connectivity. And it is it's about scale. It's about guest services. It's about organizational optimization and so on.

But then I realized this is so interesting. You know, this technology, this technology is this basket of technologies. I really kind of, it really resonated with me that it was the way to join a thousand points of light. The world is made up of thousands, thousands of points of light, whatever you want, whatever that metaphor means to you and XR technology, virtual technology, the metaverse is the foundation and the hub technology technological hub to join these thousand points of light And so that means geographic you know, disparate geographic locations and people, it means, you know, distributing content and interactive experiences. It means tele-health, it means I just spent four hours this week already in meetings. And they are very productive, very, uh, impactful. They have real results and they feel very close to being in person.

It's not the same. It doesn't have to be the same. So Steve, to answer your question, I really saw a wonderful, exciting opportunity to delve into this space where I had a lot of interests, a lot of love, some great people. I met some great people, which I'll talk about. I think I should talk about as well in hospitality, but you know, business and technology is not about products It's not even about innovation, it's still about people. And I was very lucky to be in this amazing global travel and hospitality space where I've met so many and interacted and worked with and worked for incredible people like Carson booth, Doug rice, flooring, Delaney Parmender from track and protect.

I mean, these are, these are really interesting people. and many, many more who I've had this kind of ability to dialogue with, to learn from, to, to help, with, to indicate and all that. I still feel as entirely applicable in a much wider world. Now over the last five years that I've attended to my travel and hospitality fan. 

David Millili: We're going to start a run of metaverse questions. But before that, if I were to say, Michael, I want you to pick up the phone. Here's my mother. What is, what is the Merck? Metaverse just short, quick, what is it? 

Michael Cohen: Okay. Mrs. Millili you, you brought up a wonderful son. the metaverse is simply a word, a catchall that incorporates all of the technologies and all of the content like you watch on Netflix or you experience in video in different scenarios and audio, in different scenarios. And now, you've been interacting with your grandchildren on zoom, all these things, these, these flows of information and entertainment and content and interaction. Now there's a digital twin It's a digital twin. It simulates in a very high level it's immersive, which means that you're all in. So you feel like you're there. You feel like you're interacting. That's how I would explain it.

to your 

David Millili: Okay.

Michael Cohen: mother And then I'd ask her for like her spaghetti and meatballs recipe or something. Maybe.

I don't know 

David Millili: That would be a good choice. or lasagna? 

Michael Cohen: it was on. 

David Millili: so far, how have you seen it changing travel hospitality? the metaverse, I mean, we see a lot of stuff on LinkedIn. How do you, how do you take what's happening and what how's it.

Michael Cohen: Yeah. Well, I'm going to start with a negative because that's interesting. I've also, I've seen him, we know, and people are watching this and they have the opinions and there, and that's great. We need to have dialogue. It's fascinating how it's deemed somewhat negative by some people within the travel and hospitality industry, how it's somehow going to detract from the core businesses and the core experiences and what. Feel and what I've clearly experienced and others in our industry and in the general, XR metaverse industry, the refinement of what the metal versus the refinement of what immersive VR versus augmented reality, which is a layer on the world. And I'll explain that a little bit. If, if I have time today, they are enhancing travel and hospitality.

They're expanding it, they're scaling it. And frankly, they're doing it.

in a very low asset investment, low risk scenario for traditional hospitality and travel companies interest. So I believe, and I'll talk about that this today potentially that there are obviously some scenarios, some areas of. And guest services, guest engagement in marketing and sales and in the back of the house in operations that are incredible relevant, impactful revenue generating and overhead minimizing technologies, platforms, and services that if they are well aligned with the core principles and core implementation of what travel and hospitality is for the last 75 years, it's only upside for the. 

Steve Carran: Absolutely. 

David Millili: No, it's a good, it's a good answer. I mean, I think it's, it's also just with the generations. I mean, so my 14 year old has this, you know, his Oculus headset on for whatever, for a couple hours a day, he's used to that. And I think that, you know, we're, we're an industry that we, we need people like yourself who are continually reminding people that we must adapt and change and embrace what's going on outside of hotels, because we're an old industry and we're, you know, we're behind airlines, which are behind, all tech companies.

So I think it's just, it's, it's, it's.

Michael Cohen: Yeah. And look, if this is appropriate scenario or time in this, in this podcast to talk about some specific examples, I'm 

happy to do that. So look, a brand has, is building a hotel in Chicago. The first, you know, 11 floors are the hotel and they are making their investment because the final four floors on the top of this amazing new hotel are condominiums they're upper scale, luxury condominiums. The ability to have a digital twin of these condos in an environment where this is important. Sure. A client has one of these fine. That's a mitigating gated, interaction, but they definitely got one of these. There is clear developed, well executed, well distributed technology that some leading edge people are in the travel muscle space are already utilizing where a Hong Kong family can be interacting and experiencing a.

Immersive experience in the Chicago condo of their choice and they will sign on to buy it sight unseen. Of course, it's not sight unseen. It's physically sight unseen. This is just one of 50 different scenarios of travel and hospitality that again, expands the reach drives growth and is sustainable and efficient and it's optimized.

And, you know, there are things starts to 

go. 

Steve Carran: no, I just was going to ask if people are doing that right now, are people, I mean, the real estate market is crazy as it is, right? so are people actually touring properties and buying them with only seeing them on the. 

Michael Cohen: Yes. And I'm consulting with organizations who are doing that and they've been doing it for the last 18. so That's just one, you know, I really try to do real-world examples that are relevant to your audience. Some of our peers that make it just clear that it's, you don't have to do this.

You don't have to do that. It should be in your toolbox, put it in your toolbox, the metaverse and virtual reality, and augmented reality need to be in your toolbox as a travel and hospitality, brand ownership, executive hospitality, technology, executive, someone who's involved in marketing and social media.

all these things are happening in general, but it's it's 2022 It's not 2017. In our industry, we need to sometimes remind ourselves once in a while about that. So one other scenario that I think is really important specifically to the travel hospitality space is okay, so augmented reality people, hopefully, and they will further understand this more about this, which is it's a innovative overlay of information and experience and activations on the physical world. What is tremendous, application Simon, a case study. It's like a blinding example of the obvious of how metaverse, which is more of a destination. We'll talk about that in a second, but how virtual and augmented reality and the Metaverse can impact travel and hospitality. There is technology that I'm involved in from a consulting perspective, from an advisor perspective.

And just from a, you know, love it perspective I'm a fan, which is geo located augmented reality So now we're talking about geo GPS pinpoint to the centimeter. We can pin and deploy guest experience, enhancers, promotional, marketing materials for a resort or property on property in the parking lot at the pool, in the theme park, in the, in the supermarket or the shopping mall, two kilometers away from the hotel that would drive traffic it's pinpoint, and it's all metrics and trackable.

So that's just another example of this, you know, this toolkit of which is XR of minerality rich reality. 

Steve Carran: Can you give us a specific example on that? Like how a hotel could really use that. I know you kind of gave out a few few, but just something really specific about that. Cause I really like this and I think it's such a, like the AR space I 

think is awesome. So 

Michael Cohen: yeah, I have a couple of real specific examples for that. Let's go threefold. There's literally, you know, demand gen marketing, which is location-based. Okay. Then there is front of the house, then there is back to that. Okay. So location-based is literally, I am in a high traffic area in Las Vegas, or I'm in a, you know, I'm in some area where I now, because Google said I can use this to walk around and I have much more of an immersive overlay on the strip. So that's now Google, or one of the, you know, the, the macro implementers are implementing this layer of engagement, messaging knowledge information in the general area. But I'm walking along and Bally's, or Caesars has an activation that I have the ability or I pop into it or it's sent to me because they know my location.

So I get a link and I just click on the link as long as I'm pointing at the building. And it's this incredible experience, a 3d object. It could be a marketing content that is now I'm seeing through the, my eye, which is this my 

virtual eye suddenly. I'm like, whoa, okay, I'm going here. So that's an example of geo located, outdoor hospitality, marketing demand, gen education, et cetera. Now imagine that a guest room, imagine a law, an augmented reality overlay. When I walk in the lobby or I would come my guest room and maybe it's a upper scale guestroom with a lot of hospitality technology, that's going to be as continues to be commercialized at high-tech, you know, in late June in Orlando.

And I want to see what's available and how to use it all. I walk around the room like this and all this content is popping up. This is, you know, get the most out of this amazing IP TV solution. Get the most out of, you know, this, guest room management system. Here's How you, you know, create, uh, environmental perfect for you.

join our VIP club, replacing or augmenting the printed materials inside of the guest room with, with augmented reality overlays that are triggered by either a QR code or a symbol or object in the guestroom in some sort of printed material. And everything by the way is trackable and refreshable remotely in the cloud. 

Steve Carran: how much better is . That than that giant book that sits in the hotel room that, 

you know, you can page through. Right. I 

mean, this is, this is a 

lot more sustainable.it's a lot more tech focused and it's, you know, kind of speaking to, you know, like maybe your, your current hotel.

Michael Cohen: Well, and the other thing that's super important is this is not about bleeding edge technology. This is happening in retail, in sporting, you know, arenas everywhere around the world. This is proven, absolutely proven technology that, over the last three or four years is exploding in its impact and its scalability, but it's prime time and.

I'm enjoying the ability to share that with particular clients and people like yourself in the travel and hospitality space, but it's not an experiment. It's not high risk. It's, it's very,well implemented in other vertical markets already, which is important for people in the travel hospitality space to understand the last thing I just want to say about this and specific to augmented reality for a second is this is not about hardware investments.

This is not about refreshes. This is not about, I gotta wait until, you know, better bandwidth is in the properties. This is 4g 5g, and every one of your guests has the tool in their hand every day. That's why augmented reality for travel and hospitality is a slam dunk. You just have to do it right. And you got to implement it correctly.

And it's got to be trackable on a metrics and deliver guest satisfaction and ROI like any 

Steve Carran: Yeah, 

David Millili: we talked a lot about the hotel marketing guests. I think you said it, but I don't think we really covered it. So how do you see this helping the back of the house? as far as when it comes 

Michael Cohen: Yeah. Excellent. The biggest challenge from my experience over the years of back of the house,operations is turnover staff issues, the ability to cost-effectively in an optimized way with shorter training cycles, train staff, to do things the way the brand or the operator or the Right. way, whatever the terminology to do, stuff is huge.

It's a massive evergreen. play It's incredibly relevant to the profitability, to the optimization of the property or the brand's portfolio. So, you know, virtual, virtual, immersive training, the ability to have, repetitive tasks or optimized tasks, or simply, you know, here is, David helped me out. the SOP is that right.

Standard operating at the SOP is all SOPs that are relevant, which is, most of them will be and should be transitioned into virtual SOP training. When there's some sort of, either a knowledge transfer or some experential training that has to happen. You can do that before they come to the property, you provide them with the device and they do it at a home.

And you say, please complete these training courses before you come. And we're going to find tune things when you're on property. And that's really interesting. Here's an augmented reality execution that is very powerful in hospitality, from an operations perspective engineering and so on. every hotel is a snowflake.

We've all learned that in our careers, people say, oh, I got about 300 hotel deal. It's going to go great. In six months, we're going to deploy it wrong. Every hotel is a snowflake, meaning that every hotel has its secrecies. It has its fingerprints, Joe or Sally. Who's been the engineering manager for 15 years at the Marriott.

Marquis times square knows that when the winter gets really cold in New York city, you got to go down to the boiler. You've got to kick it twice and you've got to turn the lever three times to the right, or it's not going to heat the hotel. They know that they got a new job, they transitioned somewhere else.

They retired. And that, I mean, using a pejorative example, but that knowledge has now gone with augmented reality. You can add a, a virtual sticky note or a information poster all over everywhere. The pipes, the, the whole physical plant could have all these very important kernels of organized efficient, authorized content, but it's all there.

Not in reality. It's not going to be torn. It's not going to get discolored, but it's other. So then when the new engineering manager comes, the operations manager walks them around and they go, oh, remember, and they have the whole information related to that particular nuance or idiosyncrasy as an example of the physical plan of the hotel.

It's now they're memorialized and it could be, it can have video embedded. It could have audio embedded, it's fully multimedia, but it's all driven on an amended reality.

Steve Carran: It's 

Michael Cohen: How's that? 

David Millili: That's great. So I have a personal challenge for you. So at tech, obviously the modern hoteliers as presented by stay flexi, stay flexible while have a booth there. Steve and I will be interviewing individuals, Wednesday afternoon. And, I'm sorry, Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon, I was thinking Wednesday, because I was saying, I would like for you to join us and tell us that you've identified a company that is open to using new technology in that side of it, because it seems as if, when you walk around, high-tech, it's all about just a training video and we talk about retention, but we really.

Focus on retention. We think retention is just the training piece, but these are extremely important components because again, yeah, if you're a new maid and you're in the bathroom and you're trying to remember how do I fold the towel or where do I put this or that if you can just get that information without having to go get a supervisor.

So that's my challenge to you. We'd like you to be on Wednesday afternoon and tell us that you've identified a company that you think you're going to work with and be the first to do this.

Michael Cohen: Well, I love what I do. I love high tech, and, uh, I will take 

that challenge. 

Steve Carran: Awesome. I have a follow-up question here. and this is probably more, more, I'm just curious, cause I'm I like NFTs and stuff like that, but that's a big thing right now is NFTs and I know they're not doing well. But how can NFTs play a role into this metaverse and XR space 

Michael Cohen: Sure. if it's okay. See the really fast, we haven't really talked about the metaphors too much. So let me just Go back to the metaverse and that cause it's related to NFTs and blockchain, et cetera. so for people to, if it's okay, people to understand people to, to get some, context, the metaverse is usually perceived as it's everything it's everywhere.

The metaverse can be many things. Of course, it's a destination. So it's a immersive community it's in travel and hospitality. There's significant plays in a digital twin scenario, which means that it's an upended. It's an add on it's a, it's a expanded experience that adds value pre. Present and posts really important.

The metaverse as PRI, which is, you know, but interaction with a property hotel, et cetera, location where I want to, you know, understand what I'm, what I'm, why I'm choosing it, why it's better. How is it going to be, as you said, David, you know, millennials and gen X, they pre-experience everything in their life.

There's unfortunately there's a little less mystery in life now for those consumers, but that's important for travel and hospitality to do it. So from a metrics perspective, think about digital twin. Think about that. But also it's about community. It's about a destination that's fully immersive and incorporates things like blockchain, which is, as people may know, or may not know, which is very intelligent, secure financial infrastructure that is tied around.

digital transactions, and optimization of those. And if T's non fungible tokens, we've, you've heard it everywhere because it's a craze. It's like, you know, it's the tulip investing craze in Holland in the 14 hundreds of whatever. What NFTs are great for is being the, I'm trying to get this right.

Being the bouncer at an amazing party in hospitality, meaning, you know, access, exclusivity, community membership. If I'm a loyalty member of a major brand. There, there is going to be, and there is coming in. There should be some sort of NFT experience. So if I'm a VIP, if I'm a platinum, a gold or a bronze, I have a different NFT.

As part of my experience, I get value super important. If I, if I give, if I impart anything today, from what we're talking about in the metaverse, and we're talking about native teas, we're talking about an augmented or virtual reality. it. has everything has to have utility driving engagement and expand and enhance loyalty. Everything's about utility engagement and loyalty. Now, if I said that to people in the travel and hospitality space, 25 years ago, There's a new widget coming. It's going to be very highly utilized. It's going to create a lot of efficiencies. It's going to drive engagement both on your guest engagement on your marketing, your brand portfolio.

And it's going to increase the loyalty of your customers, your guests, or your citizens. And that's an interesting word. They would say Yes, sign me up. So here's the deal. If there's a filter that everyone in the travel hospitalist space that has interest in what we're talking about today, you need to use the filter.

I do it every day and I do it with my clients as a management consultant. Does it provide utility? Does it drive engagement has increased loyalty. It's a cocktail napkin filter, but it's killer. And if it doesn't do those three things like in a. Easy to understand fairly linear process where you can communicate that to your other, you know, decision makers, the CEO, the board don't start the project. 

is there something you've seen in the metaverse that you're like mind a blown or that you just thought was so cool or else something that is maybe coming up, in the metaverse or I'll even say XR NFTs, whatever, that whole space 

Steve Carran: that 

Michael Cohen: sure. 

sure. 

Steve Carran: about.

Michael Cohen: So that's a whole, you got to sign me up for another hour. Um,here we go. I really think, holographic the ability to experience. So when I'm sitting at the pool, in Las Vegas, in one of those great pool experiences, I'm using Vegas as a. Definitely David can, the, pool experience and so on. I can, you know, message a friend they could holographic in and lie or sit next to me and we, and they can have a visual and somewhat of an experiential experience of exactly what I'm experiencing. That's, you know, so this digital twin concept, again, this ability to, travel and experience things, because here's the other thing, too, the folks who may be watching and it's respected in our industry, travel hospitality industry, who may feel again, this is hype, or this is, you know, somehow detracting from traditional business. How can it be bad when someone gets a taste of what you've invested in from a design operations, guest experience perspective. And go, you know, that was great, but I really want to be there. I want to bring my wife there. I want to, I want to be there as live and it's a differentiates your location brand and everything else, experience from others.

But that's one of the things Steve, I think it's really tough to choose one of 20 things that I think there are really exciting. That's one that I think is tremendous. I'll have more to talk about.

that at high-tech when I'm there and a couple of things and there's some meetings and people I'll be talking to, but, Yeah.

the geo location, augmented reality is tremendous.

And you know, that old adage people say, your imagination is the limit. Well in this scenario, it almost is because what you can do with all these different technologies and to create content and activations and engagement, materials is really. 

Steve Carran: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that's awesome. I, I, you know, I think you gave a great overview of the metaverse and XR and even NFTs as well. So I think, I think that's great. Moving on to the last section here, kind of just, uh, you know, your, your industry thoughts. And first of all, I just want to, what's your advice for somebody who is either starting out in the hospitality space or I'll even throw out the tech space as well? 

Michael Cohen: well?

first of all, I think that the hospitality space is probably one of the best and many people have said this before. One of the best industries for anyone who has an interest in business commerce, marketing it, it's in tremendous industry to start your career because you're not going to start your career in a glamorous environment.

You're going to start your career. As we all know, being the bellboy at the, you know, holiday in St. Louis, and, but you're going to learn. About people, how to communicate, how to listen to customers, how to stay within your SLPs and deliver great service and those kind of, um, skillsets, which are the, some of them are soft skills that people talk about or emotional intelligence with is very important in any career. Those are transferable. And those, those put you at a much higher level, in my opinion, even than someone who maybe has an MBA, who's popping out. Sure. They have, I respected and many of us have done it and, and so on. But if you can do both, that's great, but let's say you can't, it's, it's a tremendous step forward.

It provides you with a great advantage. And a skillset that will only help and expand over time. As I said earlier, you know, business is about people. It's about relationships. It's not about money. It's not about technology. It's not about services. It's not about, uh, finance, not about the board of directors.

Those are all very important components. They're they're linchpins, but it's about people, communication, empathy, execution, trust. Those are the things you learn in hospitality and the best people in hospitality. Who've been in the hospitality industry. The longest usually are Supreme. Those attributes. 

David Millili: Yeah, it's been great. It's been great for us because we've asked that question of, I think everybody we've had on and, you know, the, the core, a lot of times it just does come down to that. The people, and, you know, for me, it was always about, you know, I got to work many, many jobs in a hotel and that really kind of made me have a much better feel for the hotel as a, almost as a human being, like all the different components.

so it's. 

Michael Cohen: Yeah, it could be because, because it is, it's.

like a living entity in many ways. Right. And, and, and th the staff and the guests, so it's, it's, it's that symbiotic relationship to that's like the oxygen flowing through the property. 

David Millili: yeah, absolutely. So we've covered a lot. So if you, so when you look at metaverse AR VR, if you were sitting down with a hotel or someone who was in charge of operations for a hotel group, what would be kind of your first suggestion, the first step for them to really enhance the guest experience? Like where, you know, because you know, our industry is, nobody is usually all in.

It's usually always like, how do we pilot this? How do we test it? How do we dip our toe in the water? Yeah. What would be the first thing to improve the guest experience that you think a hotel would look should look at it, it could be any one of those. Those three are.

Michael Cohen: Okay. just a quick qualifying, suggestion. It depends on the nature of the hotel. So if it's a full service business hotel versus, you know, a limited service, consumer, or let's talk about in the full service, business oriented property, the meeting spaces, the meeting spaces, small meetings, I might, I'm talking about conventions, you know, talking about like that, that wonderful meat and potatoes of the revenue stream.

If that drives FMB and everything else, the ability to take. You know, what's happening. And, and some people may have seen on LinkedIn, I've done some videos about this whole virtual, work room meeting type environment. This is not about conventions. This is not about trade shows. This is about day to day gatherings, especially now in the distributed workforce environment, which is never going back to a hundred percent where it was before I am right now, recommending and consulting.

I will do every business, a corporate focus property. You need to upend you to add extension of virtual meeting functionality to your physical corporate meeting spaces. Today. There's straightforward ways to do that. It's a revenue generator, it's a differentiator, and it expands the impact of, of what you're delivering.

It's not impeding. It's exciting. Because it's a hybrid implementation. It's still a 70 to 80% physical, uh, focus. But with that 25%, you know, virtual VR type experience and it just drives. So this is not about a zoom, which is great too. This is a deeper immersive experience. Feel can actually really interact physically or virtually physically interact with CAD designs, products, look at 3d objects, et cetera.

So that's where I would focus right now. That's impactful today. That's that's doable today. The technology is solid state it's the prices have dropped dramatically. So I'm recommending and advising on that today on the other side of the street, which is, you know, the limited service or even full service, but more consumer or, pleasure travel scenario, absolutely geo located AR and in room a.

The examples I talked about earlier that is straightforward to execute. It's you work, I work or rework, or you would work with your digital marketing, digital communications teams already the same Photoshop and Adobe design tools. They use a lot of that same skill set is applied to the content that would be created for these, engagement And, loyalty applications.

I'm talking about apple activations, et cetera. that's where I would totally focus right now. And that's what I'm recommending, clients focus today.

Steve Carran: And, you know, I know this might be hard to believe, but I bet you there's a few people out there, maybe a couple who are a little nervous to get started in this space. Um, what what advice can you give them or, maybe a good starting point that they can, you know, at least get comfortable with this before really diving in. 

Michael Cohen: Well, here's the, here's what I'll give you a perfect example. What. I'm doing with my consulting partners is we're actually providing these headsets as part of the engagement to our travel and hospitality, corporate clients. They're meeting with us 

Steve Carran: awesome. 

Michael Cohen: If the cobbler's kids have holes in their shoes, that's not a good look. So what the, what happens is that now these, executives and decision makers have an instant comfort level and they start seeing the value. and that's just one wide sector we're talking about. I think what Steve took to be more direct to your question. I learned a long time ago that it's really, really, really, really easy to chunk up, chunk up, chunk up layer layer, layer layer, this technology, that technology super important to chunk down. So I work with clients to chunk down. Let's identify a gap. What's identify identifying opportunity. Then let's look to see if there's a, an overlay within the metaverse XR that will efficiently fill the gap in a positive way. And Steve, what does it have to do? What's the first thing has to do utility.

Second 

thing. You can do it. You wrote down. Thank you there. So if that filter is utilized, but you chunk down as a corporate executive brand executives, then it's much more bite-size then it's logical, then they can explain it. I'm not patronizing anybody. Cause it's hard to do. They can explain it in an elevator to the CEO or an investor 

Steve Carran: Yep. 

Michael Cohen: or a guest by the way, or a closely held corporate client.

Who's looking to give them their contract for $22 million to do all their meetings. Small meetings in the, you know, 35 hotels across north America. That's how you do it. Chunk down, you look for gaps and you see with hopefully, you know, some people around you who have experience in this new, technology arena to align what works and what's realistic.

And what has mitigated risks? 

Steve Carran: Absolutely. And I, I'm sorry. I have one more question here. I, sorry for taking it all, David, but, what do you think a day in the metaverse is going to be like in three years? Once I get, I guess you wake up, go to the, metaverse go to a few meetings, go to a conference, maybe play poker with your buddies at the end of the night, all on the metaverse, but you know, that's kind of what I think. 

Michael Cohen: Well look, I mean, um,The metaphors continues to be defined as we know, or hopefully we know, but, what's interesting is a lot of, did you use the digital twin? It's a great, great way for everyone listening to this. If you use the digital twin methodology in your head doesn't mean everything is going to be transitioned, but a lot of it can be right.

So creates logical pathways intellectually and actually digitally too. You know, what do I want to do? what's really efficient people will have a portion of their business day in a digital environment metaverse or otherwise there's consumer metaverse. There is private secure corporate destination metaverse there is, you know, ad hoc metaverse, which I want to drop in, drop out.

There's all these different scenarios. So, you know, Steve, five, 10 years ago, someone said that. 67%, because this is the latest quote. I softened variety, which is entertainment, entertainment, publication, 60%, 7% of all entertainment is stream all kinds of entertainment. 67% of the multi, multi, multi multi-billion dollar.

Your entertainment is streamed in some way. If 10 years ago, someone said that to you, you'd say, what are you talking about? So what I'm telling you is that what's interesting is that entertainment, which is the relaxing part of your day. High portion of that will be in a metaverse environment because you're going to be able to travel digitally experience.

The Julie, high Def is going to be higher. Def immersive technology is going to be more immersive, big, big, big thing that people are talking about enough spatial audio. The audio experience is only enhancing my audio experience at a high Def data content concert. In the metaverse is intense, but it's incredible because it is optimized.

So from an artist perspective, just, I know I'm going down the path here, but from the artist's perspective, I want the best quality delivery of my content. if it's business content like a meeting scenario, if it's, if it's an entertainment content, I want optimal delivery of content. Yes. In-person is always going to be number one, but two and soon over 10 years from now, it's going to be one a is going to be virtual metaverse XR delivery of all this.

So from a to answer your question more specifically, I totally see that half of your day would be in some way, shape or form in a immersive. Corporate experience or, or small business experience or whatever half of your day would be, you know, people saying, I need to unplug, well, we need to unplug now.

I mean, zoom fatigue or zoom fatigue. I mean, it's life. The other side is, you know, I'm going to be more selective about where I'm vest in person for entertainment, for restaurants, for experiences. I want to want to pre experience so much more and enjoy it. Okay. so I, I definitely see 50 50 on your daytime and I see 60 to 70, 30 on your evenings for some people, 

Steve Carran: All right.

Michael Cohen: because they're going to say, you know what, I'm really enjoying this and I can do it in collaboration with my friends.

It's a community. That's right.

David Millili: Yeah, it's interesting. I can see a point, you know, it's kind of funny now where it almost feels weird when somebody wants to call you and not do a video conference and you start to, you can't see their lips moving now. So sometimes it feels like it's talk, it's tougher to talk. I can't even talk tougher to talk on a phone so I could see a point where someone saying, what do you mean we're going to do a zoom or we're going to go to the metaverse or aren't we going to connect here?

Like, what are you 

Michael Cohen: Yeah.

and and by the way, in that scenario, I'm just going to use a quick analogy that I like to use a lot. it's, it's very general, but I think it's relevant 20 years ago, 20 years ago. you needed to have a bunch of maps in your car when you did, when you went to on a long distance trip or you went, you know, for four hour trip, a multi office, multi corporate, you know, meetings, next area don't need to say any more guys.

Come on. So that, that type of, efficiency, optimization and simply kind of seamlessness, and that's the word Steve and David seamlessness from that scenario is being mirrored. In other scenarios that we've talked about today, there's a seamless nature to the, metaverse a seamless nature to XR that is only going to enhance and sometimes detract.

I mean, I'm not unrealistic. There is something to be said of drinking that great glass of wine smelling, you know, the sea, experiencing a hug in person that's never going away, but virtual is here to stay. and, you know, the metaverse is something that needs to be embraced in whatever level of intensity is comfortable for you as an individual, or is important you as it is. 

David Millili: so we're up on the hour now. we're at close to the end. We actually are at the end, but is there one question that you wish we would've asked you or a question you appoint, you want to make that you think you don't think you're able to get across so far covered a lot.

Michael Cohen: No. I, I think, I think, you know, you guys gave me a really nice platform and the questions were really, they triggered a lot.

of great thoughts and I appreciate that. Well thought out. I think really that it's really important is, is that people in the industry embrace whatever. Like I said before, just embrace whatever level you feel it's appropriate for.

You don't feel pressure. I'm not trying to patronize anybody, but there's a lot of pushback on things because it's a bit of an unknown it's, it's, you know, it's another technology hype thing, It's not that it's, that the train has left the station. And one of my LinkedIn posts recently, I said, you know, this whole digital metaverse marketing engagement, guests satisfaction, experiential side of things.

It's absolutely at the station. So it sounds hacky to say, but you need to stay competitive, but you need to make decisions that fit you personally, or your career or your company. And I'm happy to help. 

David Millili: That's a great segue. So we're at the end. So this is where we ask our guests to plug away, tell us how we can contact you, how we can find you and what you're, what you're going to be doing. I know you'll be at high-tech, but tell us what else you've got going on and just give us some ways to go.

Michael Cohen: Yeah, look, I'm very, very fortunate that I've had the pleasure to work with a lot of great people today and previous, I looked forward to the future as well. Of course. So I'm a management consultant. I'm an advisor, I advise C level or VP level executives in travel and hospitality, consumer packaged goods,other more, uh, general business implementations.

I'm on a, there's a couple of podcasts coming out that I will, over the next few months that I will, share on LinkedIn. I think it's primarily LinkedIn is, uh, you know, my primary communication platform and a, and a way to interact with folks. So it's Michael C. Cohen, on LinkedIn and, uh,That's where I am.

I'm very fortunate to work with a team of great people at Ugo virtual or I'm an advisor and a board member. I'm very fortunate to work with, the great people of Messerschmitt systems as a CEO advisor to that excellent innovative company in the guest room management space. I'm continually looking for involvement as an investor or a board member, or as a consultant for, you know, appropriate, engagements where people feel they want to, have me listen, learn, and, uh, provide them with content strategies that they can be effective. 

David Millili: Well, thank you, Michael. That ends another episode of The Modern Hotelier presented by Stayflexi. We thank you for being part of it and wish you all the best.

Michael Cohen: Really appreciate it. And by the way, gentlemen, like I said earlier, this is great content overall. I really enjoyed the series. I continue to 

Steve Carran: thanks, Michael. Well,