WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:07.950 Warren Zena: The CRO Spotlight Podcast, pro Farm Production. 00:00:08.670 --> 00:00:12.960 Hi, I'm Warren Zena, founder and CEO of the CRO Collective, and 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.060 welcome to the CRO Spotlight Podcast. 00:00:15.990 --> 00:00:20.370 This podcast is for Chief Revenue Officers, aspiring CROs and 00:00:20.370 --> 00:00:23.520 CEOs who are looking to hire or support a CRO to succeed. 00:00:25.310 --> 00:00:29.390 To join me and my expert guests as we debate, discuss, and tackle today's 00:00:29.390 --> 00:00:32.540 complex revenue growth challenges, and provide practical insights 00:00:32.540 --> 00:00:33.950 to help CROs succeed in the role. 00:00:34.489 --> 00:00:36.350 We're really excited to have you with us now. 00:00:36.355 --> 00:00:36.890 Let's get to it. 00:00:43.849 --> 00:00:47.330 Okay, and welcome to this episode of the CRO Spotlight podcast. 00:00:47.330 --> 00:00:50.120 This is Warren Zena, the founder and CEO of the CRO. 00:00:51.495 --> 00:00:52.875 And, um, you know, it's been a while. 00:00:52.875 --> 00:00:55.035 I know that I just released a couple of episodes. 00:00:55.665 --> 00:00:59.655 Uh, you'll see uh, one from Steve Schmidt that just came out today. 00:00:59.655 --> 00:01:04.185 And then, uh, Rosalyn Santa Elena should be releasing next week. 00:01:04.185 --> 00:01:05.415 That's a great conversation. 00:01:05.535 --> 00:01:08.325 And, uh, I just wanna like, say a couple things cuz it's been a while since I've 00:01:08.895 --> 00:01:13.875 had, uh, an episode, but, One of the things that I'm seeing now that I find 00:01:13.875 --> 00:01:17.985 it really interesting is how many chief revenue officers don't own marketing. 00:01:18.045 --> 00:01:20.535 It's really interesting What happens is, I'm speaking to a lot of 00:01:20.539 --> 00:01:23.985 chief revenue officers, and as you probably all from hearing this, a 00:01:23.985 --> 00:01:25.785 lot, a lot of 'em own sales, right? 00:01:25.785 --> 00:01:29.895 Only maybe they're given customer success to some degree. 00:01:30.554 --> 00:01:35.384 Some own it, but very few own marketing and I it's, it's like the last. 00:01:36.515 --> 00:01:39.524 Frontier, you know, they can't seem to grab, and I have 00:01:39.524 --> 00:01:40.695 a lot of thoughts on this. 00:01:40.785 --> 00:01:44.384 Um, I'll probably get into this a lot with my great guest today, but it's 00:01:44.384 --> 00:01:48.464 a really interesting topic and it has to do a lot to do with, I would call 00:01:48.464 --> 00:01:52.964 it like a traffic jam that's happening at the C-suite that is, companies 00:01:52.970 --> 00:01:54.255 aren't really thinking this through. 00:01:54.645 --> 00:01:58.155 And also it's also because, um, there's not a lot of. 00:01:59.315 --> 00:02:02.235 Strategic thinking related to C-Suite leadership and how it 00:02:02.295 --> 00:02:05.505 implicates itself when companies grow and you end up in a situation 00:02:05.505 --> 00:02:07.875 where you have a CMO and then a c. 00:02:08.940 --> 00:02:11.370 And you sort of let them duke it out, and that never ends 00:02:11.590 --> 00:02:13.050 up winning good for anybody. 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.810 Salespeople often hate their crm. 00:02:16.050 --> 00:02:16.470 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: Why? 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:21.510 Because they are hard to use, difficult to customize, and expensive to maintain. 00:02:21.660 --> 00:02:23.070 This means leads and 00:02:23.070 --> 00:02:24.870 Warren Zena: opportunities don't get updated. 00:02:25.015 --> 00:02:28.255 Things get missed and sales can suffer in. 00:02:28.255 --> 00:02:31.165 Insightly is the modern CRM that teams love. 00:02:31.404 --> 00:02:35.605 Easy to use, flexible enough to support your unique needs and 00:02:35.605 --> 00:02:37.494 scales with you as you grow. 00:02:37.704 --> 00:02:42.295 This helps you sell smarter, grow faster, and build lasting customer 00:02:42.295 --> 00:02:46.765 relationships in Insightly is trusted by more than a million users worldwide. 00:02:47.125 --> 00:02:52.435 For more information, visit insightly.com/get insight. 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.130 I'm really excited today to have our guest, Jackie Russo Anderson. 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.040 So Jackie is the CRO of Blue Con. 00:02:59.370 --> 00:03:00.120 It's a data company. 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.990 We'll talk a bit about about that business, but, um, the reason I wanted 00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:06.720 to talk to Jackie, she has such a great background and she's a chief revenue 00:03:06.720 --> 00:03:08.520 officer and it is a really great story. 00:03:08.525 --> 00:03:11.820 So, so she was a partner, a company called Scale House. 00:03:11.825 --> 00:03:12.080 Right. 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.350 She helped data analytics companies scale there, and before that she was a 00:03:16.350 --> 00:03:18.720 Chief Client Officer at Simmons, right? 00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:21.960 Where, where she's kind of spearheaded its client first strategy. 00:03:22.365 --> 00:03:25.155 And she directed all the sales and client services and then led 00:03:25.155 --> 00:03:26.385 the custom research business. 00:03:27.015 --> 00:03:31.815 And she helped transition Simmons from like an experienced, experienced sub-brand 00:03:31.820 --> 00:03:33.315 to a standalone private equity company. 00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:34.454 That's, that's a, that's a big thing. 00:03:34.454 --> 00:03:35.115 I wanna talk about that. 00:03:35.805 --> 00:03:39.975 Uh, she was at Forrester Research for a while and JD Power and Associates. 00:03:40.484 --> 00:03:43.665 Uh, so she's done a lot of really great roles at some really big brands. 00:03:43.965 --> 00:03:44.625 Uh, she speaks. 00:03:45.745 --> 00:03:49.045 Uh, she, her expertise has been cited in the Times in the journal. 00:03:49.615 --> 00:03:53.545 Uh, she's also a member of Chief and, uh, she does a lot of, uh, work in the 00:03:53.545 --> 00:03:56.275 relation to National Association of Women and Sales Professionals, et cetera. 00:03:56.275 --> 00:03:58.705 So, without further ado, I just wanna introduce Jackie. 00:03:58.710 --> 00:03:59.965 Jackie, welcome to the show. 00:03:59.965 --> 00:04:00.805 Thanks for having me, Warren. 00:04:00.805 --> 00:04:01.615 Excited to be here. 00:04:01.615 --> 00:04:01.915 Great. 00:04:02.125 --> 00:04:06.835 So, um, I'd love you to, uh, expound a little bit on your background cuz I, you 00:04:06.835 --> 00:04:10.975 know, peppered with some things, but, you know, one of the things that the audience 00:04:10.975 --> 00:04:16.829 really likes to hear about, How somebody becomes a Chief Revenue Officer and even 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:21.659 what that role has manifested for you, specifically what Chief Revenue Officer. 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:23.160 Looks like in your world. 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:23.790 So I'd love to hear 00:04:23.790 --> 00:04:24.240 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: more about that. 00:04:24.270 --> 00:04:25.350 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:04:25.380 --> 00:04:29.790 Um, what Chief Revenue Officer has manifested for me some days 00:04:29.790 --> 00:04:33.360 is kind of an identity crisis if we're, if we're being honest. 00:04:33.365 --> 00:04:35.130 So, uh, we'll get into that. 00:04:35.130 --> 00:04:39.875 But before I took this role back in January, Um, I was a chief customer 00:04:39.875 --> 00:04:44.674 officer here, atonic, so I was overseeing everything that happened 00:04:44.674 --> 00:04:46.224 post-sale with our customers. 00:04:46.229 --> 00:04:51.125 So from onboarding and implementation into, you know, our ongoing engagements 00:04:51.125 --> 00:04:55.864 with them, partnerships, training, enablement, uh, all touch touchpoints 00:04:55.895 --> 00:04:57.034 across the customer journey. 00:04:57.465 --> 00:05:01.605 And my background before this has been really at the intersection 00:05:01.605 --> 00:05:05.805 of data analytics products, uh, with a commercial bent. 00:05:05.865 --> 00:05:11.655 So if we're being honest, I never expected to get to a CRO path. 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:14.595 That was never something I set out to do. 00:05:14.595 --> 00:05:15.265 I didn't go to. 00:05:16.495 --> 00:05:18.325 You know, business, school or anything. 00:05:18.325 --> 00:05:23.965 My degrees are actually in research analytics methods, so I pictured being 00:05:23.965 --> 00:05:25.164 in the back of the house someday. 00:05:25.164 --> 00:05:29.784 And then as I got into scenarios and got exposed to different roles, I realized 00:05:29.784 --> 00:05:35.974 that I had a passion for just the business strategy of what we do, how we do, and. 00:05:36.549 --> 00:05:38.560 Doing it in a scalable way. 00:05:38.919 --> 00:05:44.229 Um, so that kind of has led me to the CRO role and I say an identity crisis 00:05:44.229 --> 00:05:49.330 because it's interesting, uh, when you're a chief customer officer, a lot of people 00:05:49.335 --> 00:05:52.960 wanna talk to you because they wanna know what are other customers doing? 00:05:52.965 --> 00:05:57.340 You know, how can we help them, which are the conversations I love to have. 00:05:57.669 --> 00:06:02.280 And then you flip over to the CRO title and suddenly everyone 00:06:02.284 --> 00:06:03.310 assumes that you're in the room. 00:06:04.070 --> 00:06:07.070 You wanna find more money or, you know, you're having a, a tough 00:06:07.070 --> 00:06:10.669 conversation and you're gonna try to, you know, add another line item 00:06:10.669 --> 00:06:12.440 into their contract or something. 00:06:12.440 --> 00:06:15.960 So, I'm not gonna lie, I still think about things the same way and wanna 00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:19.289 help our customers, you know, be transformational in what they're 00:06:19.289 --> 00:06:20.520 trying to do in their businesses. 00:06:20.909 --> 00:06:24.210 But, uh, there are some days where I'm like, oh, wait, you don't, you 00:06:24.210 --> 00:06:26.760 know, I'm like, oh, I'll have that con conversation with the customer. 00:06:26.760 --> 00:06:28.140 I'll come in and do that presentation. 00:06:28.349 --> 00:06:31.409 And somebody's like, well, they kind of wanna talk to somebody 00:06:31.414 --> 00:06:33.030 who, you know, fill in the blank. 00:06:33.030 --> 00:06:34.320 I'm like, well, I am that person. 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:39.570 I just have this revenue that has somehow become a dirty word in a lot of instances. 00:06:39.780 --> 00:06:41.250 Warren Zena: So, so much I wanna unpack. 00:06:42.344 --> 00:06:43.065 It's so great. 00:06:43.125 --> 00:06:43.515 I love it. 00:06:43.575 --> 00:06:44.205 A couple things. 00:06:44.205 --> 00:06:48.044 One I wanted to point out, maybe we can get into a bit, is the fact that, you 00:06:48.044 --> 00:06:51.015 know, one of the reasons, aside from some of the obvious ones, but one of 00:06:51.015 --> 00:06:55.244 the other important reasons I wanted to do this with you is because you got 00:06:55.244 --> 00:06:58.484 to the path of Chief Revenue Officer, but you didn't get there through sales. 00:06:59.145 --> 00:06:59.325 Right. 00:07:00.164 --> 00:07:01.034 And that's unusual. 00:07:01.244 --> 00:07:03.465 So that's, that's interesting to me because I think there's 00:07:03.525 --> 00:07:05.025 a trending on that right now. 00:07:05.054 --> 00:07:07.155 We can get into that a bit because. 00:07:07.815 --> 00:07:12.765 Sort of like, we can talk about this idea of the sort of sales led 00:07:13.015 --> 00:07:18.044 CRO and the data or operations led CRO and they're both like different 00:07:18.044 --> 00:07:19.485 sort of, you know, creatures. 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:19.724 Right. 00:07:19.724 --> 00:07:22.005 But it, it, it, it's an interesting thing. 00:07:22.455 --> 00:07:22.515 Yeah. 00:07:22.515 --> 00:07:25.635 And the second thing was that you said some of that really I want to get into 00:07:25.635 --> 00:07:29.025 right now and I didn't think about it as much until you said it, which. 00:07:29.670 --> 00:07:32.670 It's not just the way your company perceives the word revenue, 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:35.280 but it's the way customers and clients perceive revenue. 00:07:35.820 --> 00:07:39.090 And now what's happened as a result of this confusion around the role, 00:07:39.150 --> 00:07:41.940 you're having an identity crisis where people think you're looking for 00:07:41.940 --> 00:07:46.050 money because the entire industry has been trained to think Chief Revenue 00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:47.490 Officer is someone who just does sales. 00:07:47.490 --> 00:07:49.110 So how do you manage that? 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:52.980 So you're in a room and you know, or maybe a better question would 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.320 be, not only how do you manage it, but what would your advice. 00:07:56.135 --> 00:08:00.245 To help someone else manage it when they see that possibly happening 00:08:00.245 --> 00:08:03.125 down the road, that can help maybe mitigate some of that perception. 00:08:03.275 --> 00:08:05.405 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: Yeah, so I think about it in the same 00:08:05.410 --> 00:08:09.245 way that I think about sales, which is another seemingly dirty road, 00:08:09.695 --> 00:08:11.405 especially in the SAS business. 00:08:11.770 --> 00:08:16.180 Um, you know, everybody just assumes a, that you're trying to, and this 00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:19.630 is a broad generalization, right, but that salespeople are trying 00:08:19.630 --> 00:08:24.520 to wheel and deal and, you know, especially in the SaaS world, right? 00:08:24.525 --> 00:08:26.590 I'm putting a contract in front of you. 00:08:26.590 --> 00:08:28.210 There must be some hidden Gotcha. 00:08:28.340 --> 00:08:30.250 Either, you know, you're gonna. 00:08:31.230 --> 00:08:35.549 Corner me into an agreement that actually ends up overcharging me a whole bunch. 00:08:35.549 --> 00:08:39.929 And you can't wait to hit send on that invoice for overages or 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.960 it's not gonna perform the way that you're describing it to me. 00:08:43.350 --> 00:08:47.550 So from a sales perspective, I think that that's kind of the cornerstone 00:08:47.550 --> 00:08:51.420 that, you know, at least, I'm trying to really unpack and bring back. 00:08:51.420 --> 00:08:54.000 So we talk a lot about EPE and BCAN. 00:08:54.030 --> 00:08:56.490 So it's uh, expertise, partnership, and. 00:08:57.675 --> 00:09:00.165 And that's how we show up to our customers, but it's also 00:09:00.165 --> 00:09:01.795 how we show up to our prospects. 00:09:01.965 --> 00:09:07.605 So I think it really is just showing up every day and proving and building that 00:09:07.605 --> 00:09:12.195 trust with our customers and prospects that says, this isn't, you know, a shtick. 00:09:12.255 --> 00:09:16.365 I'm not trying to be, you know, the friendly person who gained some trust 00:09:16.395 --> 00:09:20.325 and then you know, you know, pardon the language but screws you on the back end. 00:09:20.625 --> 00:09:21.045 This. 00:09:21.974 --> 00:09:23.535 Really how we operate here. 00:09:23.535 --> 00:09:28.665 And so it is just showing up in a very authentic way and not letting 00:09:29.035 --> 00:09:30.615 customers know this is how we operate. 00:09:30.915 --> 00:09:34.875 And holding the teams to the same accountability because whatever experience 00:09:35.194 --> 00:09:38.925 somebody's gonna have with a sales rep is how they're going to categorize you, 00:09:38.925 --> 00:09:40.964 or a customer success manager or whoever. 00:09:41.285 --> 00:09:44.954 They're gonna remember that experience and the adage of, you know, you, you 00:09:45.395 --> 00:09:46.964 remember more how somebody makes you feel. 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:48.890 That's what your reps are doing. 00:09:48.890 --> 00:09:53.090 So it's not a magic wand approach, but I think it has to start with how 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:57.230 you structure and the expectations you set for your team when it 00:09:57.230 --> 00:09:59.870 comes to commercial interactions. 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:02.300 And then doing the same as a revenue leader. 00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:06.290 So when I come into a room, you know, I need to show up. 00:10:06.350 --> 00:10:07.730 I need to be on top of my game. 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:10.650 I need to prove that I'm there to truly help. 00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:13.130 Prospects and customers be successful. 00:10:13.310 --> 00:10:17.150 And that means being able to talk to them about the use cases that are working or 00:10:17.155 --> 00:10:22.250 not working within our tool, being honest about what we can or can't help them with. 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:27.770 Um, and just being that leader who shows up with EPE every 00:10:27.770 --> 00:10:29.090 day and every interaction. 00:10:29.420 --> 00:10:36.500 And that begins to really kind of change the sentiment, um, and also recognizing 00:10:36.505 --> 00:10:40.040 that no matter how many times I show up, that way the team shows up the way. 00:10:40.589 --> 00:10:44.819 Unfortunately there are people have, that have had such bad experiences or have 00:10:44.819 --> 00:10:51.990 such a stigma associated with sales and revenue that they're gonna assume things 00:10:51.990 --> 00:10:53.939 and then I can't change their framework. 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.199 So all I can do is help 'em be successful in their role and hopefully 00:10:58.204 --> 00:11:02.970 eventually we kind of turn that so, I think it, I, I, I truly think it's 00:11:02.970 --> 00:11:07.710 a fundamental challenge and what I've noticed, especially, you know, a lot 00:11:07.710 --> 00:11:12.270 of Euro guests are in the same, uh, mindset when it comes to revenue that. 00:11:13.020 --> 00:11:18.000 Revenue is the byproduct of making your customer successful. 00:11:18.180 --> 00:11:21.360 So we talk about in customer success, the job was to make 00:11:21.730 --> 00:11:22.860 customer successful every day. 00:11:23.190 --> 00:11:23.760 Full stop. 00:11:24.060 --> 00:11:24.840 That's what your job is. 00:11:25.290 --> 00:11:30.570 And so if we are committed to that vision from day one in the sales journey of 00:11:30.570 --> 00:11:34.950 understanding first, what is it that my customers need in order to be successful? 00:11:35.430 --> 00:11:37.200 Does our tool help them do that? 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:38.310 How do we do that? 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:41.400 Structuring an agreement that's mutually beneficial to get them 00:11:41.400 --> 00:11:44.460 there, and then making sure that we help them execute on it. 00:11:45.510 --> 00:11:49.020 Then that should speak for itself, and then the revenue will come naturally 00:11:49.020 --> 00:11:51.000 because you're helping them be successful. 00:11:51.270 --> 00:11:53.100 And that just kind of works itself out. 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:53.190 It's 00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:54.930 Warren Zena: certainly music to my ears, you know? 00:11:54.990 --> 00:11:59.070 I mean, I love that, that philosophy, and it's one that I'm kind of pushing more. 00:11:59.130 --> 00:12:02.460 I put the customer at the center of the revenue engine, not dollars. 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:02.760 Yeah, exactly. 00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:03.660 It's very difficult. 00:12:04.530 --> 00:12:07.349 PE and VC organizations to get their arms around that. 00:12:07.410 --> 00:12:08.670 Cuz that's what they're looking at. 00:12:08.670 --> 00:12:09.870 They're looking at dollars, you know? 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:13.560 But, you know, you and I, I obviously are like-minded here and I think 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:17.430 a lot of people understand that a happy customer equals dollars. 00:12:17.430 --> 00:12:17.699 Right? 00:12:17.699 --> 00:12:19.349 So that's the goal. 00:12:19.349 --> 00:12:21.120 I, I, I think it seems to make sense. 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:25.319 The problem I think is chief revenue officers are usually 00:12:25.319 --> 00:12:28.500 led by pipeline growth. 00:12:29.265 --> 00:12:31.275 New client acquisition growth, right? 00:12:31.305 --> 00:12:34.515 Deal closes, which I, those are obviously critically important components of, 00:12:34.515 --> 00:12:36.255 of a revenue, uh, engine operation. 00:12:36.285 --> 00:12:42.945 Healthy one, but no one, I dunno, maybe they can, I don't know, maybe not 00:12:42.945 --> 00:12:46.815 successfully, but they can maybe argue the wisdom of making the customer experience 00:12:46.815 --> 00:12:47.865 the first thing you think about. 00:12:49.485 --> 00:12:52.064 As a matter of fact, I think customer experience should be a place where 00:12:52.064 --> 00:12:54.465 sales and marketing get most of their insights in terms of how they 00:12:54.465 --> 00:12:56.085 should speak to new prospects, right? 00:12:56.085 --> 00:12:58.965 Because an existing customer is gonna gimme all the information I need to 00:12:58.965 --> 00:13:02.775 make sure that I can replicate that experience through the sales process, 00:13:02.780 --> 00:13:06.875 because when someone comes into the funnel, they're a customer, essentially. 00:13:07.125 --> 00:13:07.215 Mm-hmm. 00:13:07.605 --> 00:13:07.875 Right? 00:13:08.025 --> 00:13:08.205 Yep. 00:13:08.564 --> 00:13:09.105 So, yep. 00:13:09.944 --> 00:13:11.205 A couple things I wanna ask you about this. 00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:15.210 Because it's great that you have this thought and that you also come from 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.910 a non-sales background, and here you are, you're Chief Revenue Officer. 00:13:17.910 --> 00:13:21.720 So walk me through what the process was like at your company that the decision was 00:13:21.725 --> 00:13:23.820 made to make you a Chief Revenue Officer. 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:27.150 Like how did that, what was the nexus of that decision? 00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:29.070 What was the thinking behind it? 00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:34.770 Like why did we decide to make Jackie have this title and what was the, what were the 00:13:34.770 --> 00:13:38.580 objectives associated with that change? 00:13:39.150 --> 00:13:39.689 And why? 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.120 Like what were the, what were, what were the business decisions around that? 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:42.480 I'm curious. 00:13:42.569 --> 00:13:43.020 Yeah, so 00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:44.640 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: what you were saying at the beginning and 00:13:44.640 --> 00:13:49.380 the kind of the opening, um, of the podcast is spot on to what I've seen 00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:53.130 in a lot of trends, which is companies not being strategic in how they're 00:13:53.130 --> 00:13:55.199 thinking about the C-suite structure. 00:13:55.470 --> 00:14:01.590 And so you have this mix, especially in scaling companies of legacy sea 00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:03.360 titles that maybe were there because. 00:14:04.170 --> 00:14:07.270 Somebody fell, we reached a certain level of growth and we needed to 00:14:07.300 --> 00:14:11.979 put in ACMO or we needed a chief uh, operating officer, or whatever it is. 00:14:12.219 --> 00:14:16.240 And so you have these C-suite titles that don't necessarily 00:14:16.719 --> 00:14:20.229 align to the actual strategy and future strategy of the business. 00:14:20.890 --> 00:14:21.819 So that's one piece. 00:14:21.910 --> 00:14:26.329 And I would say importantly, our business and our leaders at the 00:14:26.334 --> 00:14:30.885 time, Were on the opposite side of that scale, and they were being very 00:14:30.885 --> 00:14:33.104 strategic about what the company needed. 00:14:33.104 --> 00:14:37.214 So before this move, we had a new business sales team. 00:14:37.515 --> 00:14:42.104 Um, and BDRs, you know, at one point reported a new business team. 00:14:42.109 --> 00:14:43.694 Then they kind of moved over to marketing. 00:14:44.114 --> 00:14:48.944 Um, and then under customer success, I own the number, uh, 00:14:49.604 --> 00:14:50.655 relative to account management. 00:14:50.954 --> 00:14:53.885 So renewals and upsell, cross sell that motion. 00:14:54.584 --> 00:14:59.055 As well as, uh, all the engagements we were doing with partners and 00:14:59.505 --> 00:15:02.235 what the leaders at the time. 00:15:02.265 --> 00:15:07.995 Um, so our CEO is Corey Munch back and, um, our outgoing CEO and Co-Founder was 00:15:08.025 --> 00:15:13.110 Bart Halk and they said, You know, a lot of the same things that you were just 00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:18.430 talking about where customers aren't customers after they sign the contract. 00:15:18.689 --> 00:15:24.150 Customers are everybody that we touch in the initial conversation on, so we 00:15:24.155 --> 00:15:31.620 need to really be thinking about how we engage and serve them from day one, 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:34.980 but also how we structure agreements. 00:15:36.090 --> 00:15:39.689 Are healthy for the business, both from an initial perspective and 00:15:39.689 --> 00:15:43.530 also from an expansion perspective, and roll out the products and 00:15:43.530 --> 00:15:45.930 services that actually meet needs. 00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:47.280 You made a great point, right? 00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:50.220 If you don't, if you don't have any idea what your customers are doing 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:54.420 with your platform, your tool, your service, whatever it is, or what they 00:15:54.420 --> 00:15:59.550 need from changing market trends, actual usage, whatever, how are you 00:15:59.550 --> 00:16:02.850 gonna introduce new products and services that help drive revenue? 00:16:04.125 --> 00:16:07.275 If you have a disconnect right, then I can throw out all the products. 00:16:07.275 --> 00:16:10.545 I can, you know, slice and dice my platform and put a whole 00:16:10.545 --> 00:16:12.525 bunch of like tack on options. 00:16:12.915 --> 00:16:16.395 But if they don't actually address anybody's challenges or needs, 00:16:17.069 --> 00:16:21.750 That's such a clueless approach to, to trying to scale the business. 00:16:22.050 --> 00:16:26.430 So luckily Corey and Bart said, no, you know, we kind of recognize that 00:16:26.430 --> 00:16:30.510 from both a CX perspective and also a business health and growth perspective, 00:16:30.780 --> 00:16:32.880 we need one person that kind of. 00:16:33.165 --> 00:16:36.314 Is under the spotlight and you know, we have your, their, our thumb on 00:16:36.314 --> 00:16:39.675 that part of the business and they're responsible for making sure that thing. 00:16:39.885 --> 00:16:41.745 Now it's a very cross-functional role. 00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:42.045 Right. 00:16:42.045 --> 00:16:46.875 I'm collaborating super closely with the marketing team, with the CS team partner. 00:16:46.875 --> 00:16:47.834 I mean everybody. 00:16:48.194 --> 00:16:53.040 Um, But at the end of the day, right, when somebody's looking at, okay, 00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:54.900 where are we against revenue goals? 00:16:55.199 --> 00:16:58.560 I have to be able to speak to why things are the way they are 00:16:58.560 --> 00:16:59.400 and what we're doing about it. 00:16:59.405 --> 00:16:59.790 That's great. 00:17:00.239 --> 00:17:03.150 Warren Zena: So you, you had the benefit, by the way, if I don't mind asking you, 00:17:03.780 --> 00:17:06.000 what, at what stage were you at Yeah. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.389 When that decision was made, if you don't mind, like from a revenue a r 00:17:09.389 --> 00:17:13.889 r, like what, what was your revenue level at the, at the point that you. 00:17:14.954 --> 00:17:17.115 Very wise CEOs decided to make this 00:17:17.115 --> 00:17:17.415 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: decision. 00:17:17.534 --> 00:17:20.264 Um, I dunno if I'm allowed to say exactly, but under 50. 00:17:20.264 --> 00:17:20.954 Yeah, roughly. 00:17:20.954 --> 00:17:21.734 We were under 50. 00:17:22.185 --> 00:17:22.365 Yep. 00:17:22.425 --> 00:17:22.724 Warren Zena: Fine. 00:17:22.804 --> 00:17:23.324 That's, that's great. 00:17:23.329 --> 00:17:24.375 That's, that's very common. 00:17:24.375 --> 00:17:27.675 I'm, I'm thinking that was probably the case and I asked that question and I, 00:17:27.675 --> 00:17:30.705 I appreciate, you know, you can't be specific, but it, your answer is exactly 00:17:30.705 --> 00:17:34.784 what I wanted to hear is that, you know, what we're seeing, and I suspect you 00:17:34.784 --> 00:17:40.635 agree with this, is what happens with, uh, companies is I look at it like they, okay. 00:17:40.784 --> 00:17:42.794 So I can, I can make it like personal on this. 00:17:42.975 --> 00:17:43.754 We, we just bought a. 00:17:45.915 --> 00:17:47.595 And you know, when you buy a house, particularly like an old 00:17:47.595 --> 00:17:50.054 house, you know, you sort of have to make it your own house, right? 00:17:50.054 --> 00:17:55.935 And so there's things you have to do and invest in, in stages, right? 00:17:55.935 --> 00:17:57.735 There's the things you need when you first move in. 00:17:58.245 --> 00:17:58.395 Mm-hmm. 00:17:58.639 --> 00:18:00.764 And then there's the things you're gonna want to have later. 00:18:01.605 --> 00:18:03.044 And there's also other conditions. 00:18:03.044 --> 00:18:06.554 It's, you know, things we can do quicker and things that we can afford now. 00:18:07.620 --> 00:18:09.210 And then things that we can do later. 00:18:09.540 --> 00:18:09.690 Mm-hmm. 00:18:10.379 --> 00:18:13.800 And then there's also the time that is required to do these things. 00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:14.070 Right. 00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:15.600 There's a lot of factors that go into it. 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:20.490 And building a home or renovating a home is very much like a company in that you 00:18:20.490 --> 00:18:22.379 have to do things at the right time. 00:18:22.889 --> 00:18:24.120 Right in the stage. 00:18:24.870 --> 00:18:29.280 And I think that similarly to kind of keep the analogy is if I know that 00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:33.030 there's like a longer stage, bigger renovation that I need to do that's 00:18:33.030 --> 00:18:36.899 gonna have impact on a lot of other things, then it, it should have an 00:18:36.899 --> 00:18:38.790 impact on the decisions I make today. 00:18:38.790 --> 00:18:39.000 Right? 00:18:39.004 --> 00:18:42.240 So I'm thinking ahead and I'm planning it out, but when does it happening? 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.600 Happening? 00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:42.840 A lot. 00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:45.870 I could see how this can happen in my situation is you sort of end up 00:18:45.870 --> 00:18:48.600 with the kitchen that you built as opposed to the kitchen that you want 00:18:48.810 --> 00:18:50.940 because now you're sort of stuck with the kitchen that you built, right? 00:18:52.705 --> 00:18:54.145 You know, you, you sort of mm-hmm. 00:18:54.295 --> 00:18:55.255 Get comfortable with it. 00:18:55.285 --> 00:18:57.925 Like, all right, you know, it doesn't have the island in the 00:18:57.925 --> 00:19:01.645 middle and the refrigerator could be bigger and I don't like whatever. 00:19:01.645 --> 00:19:07.165 But you know what the cost and time associated with and disruption associated 00:19:07.165 --> 00:19:10.165 with making the kitchen that we want, we're just gonna have to live with one. 00:19:10.165 --> 00:19:12.955 We have, and companies chug along with the kitchen that 00:19:12.955 --> 00:19:15.085 they have, and Eve eventually. 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:17.490 That kitchen, it doesn't work anymore. 00:19:17.490 --> 00:19:20.730 It can't produce enough food for the noun of, you know, mouths it needs to feed. 00:19:21.330 --> 00:19:23.010 And then they come into a really bad problem. 00:19:23.340 --> 00:19:27.510 And so the companies that I see succeed really well understand that those things 00:19:27.515 --> 00:19:30.660 are sort of an inevitability in the way companies grow, but they're smart at being 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:33.630 able to make decisions to pivot out of those things and make the right decisions. 00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:34.950 And they, most of 'em don't. 00:19:35.100 --> 00:19:37.740 And what ends up happening is things like we talked about in the 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:40.710 beginning of this, which is, you know, it does make sense at this. 00:19:41.835 --> 00:19:44.115 To have somebody oversee the entire revenue function, 00:19:44.115 --> 00:19:45.405 cuz that just makes sense. 00:19:45.765 --> 00:19:48.045 The level of complexity that we've reached at the company right now 00:19:48.045 --> 00:19:51.135 requires more integration and alignment and it needs somebody to oversee it. 00:19:52.155 --> 00:20:00.285 But Steve and Bob, or you know, Jackie and Mary are gonna fight because one owns 00:20:00.285 --> 00:20:03.075 sales and one owns marketing, and I just don't know who's gonna win that battle 00:20:03.075 --> 00:20:04.275 and I'm not getting in the middle of it. 00:20:04.275 --> 00:20:06.735 Someone gonna let them figure it out and they don't figure it out. 00:20:06.795 --> 00:20:08.535 What they do is they come up with some sort of. 00:20:09.179 --> 00:20:13.290 Or structure that accommodates both of their respective survival requirements. 00:20:13.649 --> 00:20:15.449 And you end up with half a kitchen, you know? 00:20:16.139 --> 00:20:19.530 And I think great leaders just say, look, I don't care about those things. 00:20:20.070 --> 00:20:24.270 I need my customers happy, and this particular structure or arrangement 00:20:24.330 --> 00:20:28.080 is going to get the best outcome, and I'm just gonna have to make some big, 00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:29.580 bold decisions to make that happen. 00:20:29.580 --> 00:20:31.139 And the ones that do and know what they're. 00:20:32.055 --> 00:20:32.685 Succeed. 00:20:32.865 --> 00:20:37.455 It's painful, it's not easy, but you get there and your company seems to 00:20:37.455 --> 00:20:39.855 have figured out a way to advance you. 00:20:39.855 --> 00:20:43.605 They found the right person who knows how to do this had the right skillsets, and 00:20:43.605 --> 00:20:45.015 they put you in a position to do this. 00:20:45.015 --> 00:20:48.435 So what were some of the disruptions and things that had to be managed? 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.320 To move you from that position into the, from the position you 00:20:52.320 --> 00:20:53.400 had to the position that you're in. 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.810 Like, I love my, my, my audience loves to hear these transition stories because 00:20:57.810 --> 00:20:58.920 they're going through this stuff. 00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:01.710 They're trying to figure out like, how do I move into the role? 00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:01.860 Yeah. 00:21:01.860 --> 00:21:03.360 With all the disruptions that occur. 00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:07.350 Kind of almost related to that renovation analogy that I gave you before. 00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:07.980 Love to hear about that. 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:08.340 Yeah. 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:10.200 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: First of all, great analogy. 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.850 I think that's spot on. 00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:13.500 Um, and second. 00:21:14.159 --> 00:21:20.399 I mean, disruptions are core and never ending in, in a scale up or a startup or 00:21:20.520 --> 00:21:22.110 any part of the business in these days. 00:21:22.409 --> 00:21:29.669 Uh, so I think before even addressing the specifics of this situation, it's making 00:21:29.675 --> 00:21:35.010 sure that as a leader, you know, as a C E O, you've put together your C team. 00:21:36.510 --> 00:21:43.710 Smart, flexible people who are skilled, but also are there to 00:21:43.770 --> 00:21:45.450 make the business successful. 00:21:46.170 --> 00:21:49.650 And I think that's where a lot of those trade offs can happen. 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:54.320 So, I mean, to be completely transparent, when, uh, Corey and Bart first approached 00:21:54.325 --> 00:21:59.520 me about moving into the CRO position, I was a little hesitant, right? 00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:03.220 Like I said, I'd never had a career path set on being a CRO. 00:22:03.629 --> 00:22:08.520 And I'd been in the CCO role for about a year, and we had 00:22:08.520 --> 00:22:10.139 made a ton of great progress. 00:22:10.590 --> 00:22:11.940 I loved my team. 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:13.649 I was super proud of the work that we were doing. 00:22:13.889 --> 00:22:17.310 I loved being in the trenches with customers and. 00:22:17.804 --> 00:22:21.075 I also felt that we still had quite a bit of work to do, right? 00:22:21.075 --> 00:22:26.715 To kind of get to the vision of where I had seen us going in when 00:22:26.715 --> 00:22:28.215 I agreed to take the CCO role. 00:22:28.485 --> 00:22:32.895 And so there's a reflection point that comes as like, oh. 00:22:33.465 --> 00:22:38.055 Like, I see why the business needs this, but also it's hard, right? 00:22:38.055 --> 00:22:42.615 It's Molly Graham's letting go of your Legos, uh, across the scaling, and 00:22:42.675 --> 00:22:44.685 you're like, all right, I gosh, yep. 00:22:44.685 --> 00:22:46.875 I gotta give, I gotta give away this Lego. 00:22:47.445 --> 00:22:49.185 But it, it was hard. 00:22:49.515 --> 00:22:51.975 And so I did soul searching. 00:22:51.975 --> 00:22:55.425 I had lots of conversations and I guess, I don't know if. 00:22:56.159 --> 00:22:59.580 You know, a personality flaw or strength, I guess depending on the day. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.290 I'm committed to making the company and everybody in the organization, we 00:23:04.290 --> 00:23:08.820 call ourselves the blue crew, and I adore every person in our blue crew. 00:23:09.030 --> 00:23:13.620 So I knew that this was the right move to make, to set the company up for success. 00:23:13.919 --> 00:23:15.571 So I moved over and. 00:23:16.365 --> 00:23:21.225 It was a little bit, you know, it wasn't like great everything on day one and 00:23:21.225 --> 00:23:25.275 when I move into the revenue organization is, you know, I cut cords, everything 00:23:25.275 --> 00:23:29.595 that was on my brain and I was doing moved off to somebody else's plate. 00:23:29.805 --> 00:23:33.765 We kind of defined a transition period and we said, okay, for the first three months, 00:23:34.139 --> 00:23:38.520 Here's what I'm gonna begin to transition off to other people in the organization. 00:23:38.760 --> 00:23:42.180 Maybe here's some of the priorities that we're just gonna have to let go of. 00:23:42.659 --> 00:23:47.190 And then here's the way I'm gonna start to get ramped up and figure 00:23:47.195 --> 00:23:48.750 out what's going on over here. 00:23:48.750 --> 00:23:49.260 And I was. 00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:53.100 You know, clear, and we were clear with our board too, that, you know, 00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:57.870 we really needed the first half of the year to fully kind of reset and, and 00:23:57.875 --> 00:24:00.929 understand what we were doing as part of the organization, but especially 00:24:00.929 --> 00:24:02.790 during the first 90 days, right? 00:24:02.790 --> 00:24:07.590 I needed to get into the weeds of how things were operating, what 00:24:07.595 --> 00:24:11.280 was going on, all of the pieces of the puzzle to understand what 00:24:11.280 --> 00:24:12.889 was there and what wasn't There. 00:24:14.205 --> 00:24:18.855 And doing that, and also trying to, again, let go of the Legos that 00:24:18.855 --> 00:24:20.475 I had on the customer org side. 00:24:21.330 --> 00:24:22.680 But also support the team, right? 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:25.710 Cuz I didn't wanna walk away from my leaders on that side of the 00:24:25.710 --> 00:24:28.920 organization and kind of leave them to feel like they were hanging. 00:24:29.370 --> 00:24:33.540 So it, it wasn't clean, but it was a lot of communication. 00:24:33.810 --> 00:24:36.750 And then to circle back to my initial point, that's when having those. 00:24:37.155 --> 00:24:42.105 Leaders and hiring fantastic people from the director level on up is so 00:24:42.110 --> 00:24:46.005 critical because if you have the right people in all of those roles, they're 00:24:46.005 --> 00:24:49.485 gonna jump in, they're gonna help out, they're gonna flag things that might 00:24:49.485 --> 00:24:53.625 fall through the cracks, and then you just kind of triage them as as you go. 00:24:53.625 --> 00:24:54.045 That's great. 00:24:54.045 --> 00:24:54.285 Sounds 00:24:54.285 --> 00:25:00.465 Warren Zena: like what, what you're saying it's really helpful is a. 00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:05.990 Populating your leadership team with people whom have a flexible 00:25:05.995 --> 00:25:08.190 relationship to leadership, right. 00:25:08.190 --> 00:25:09.930 They're just willing to do what it takes to mm-hmm. 00:25:10.170 --> 00:25:14.130 Make the business work and as opposed to being territorial, like holding their 00:25:14.130 --> 00:25:15.720 piece of the pie or whatever it is. 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:16.320 And that's hard. 00:25:16.800 --> 00:25:17.430 It's really hard. 00:25:18.405 --> 00:25:18.765 Right. 00:25:19.095 --> 00:25:19.585 Yeah. 00:25:19.590 --> 00:25:20.355 That's competency. 00:25:20.355 --> 00:25:24.885 That's like finding people whom from day one know that I may call upon you. 00:25:24.915 --> 00:25:25.845 You know, it's like the Godfather. 00:25:25.995 --> 00:25:29.805 I may call upon you one day to, you know, do something, but you know, it's 00:25:29.805 --> 00:25:31.095 in the best interest of the business. 00:25:31.095 --> 00:25:33.615 And you know, of course I'll, I want your feedback and your input 00:25:33.675 --> 00:25:34.995 to check if I'm right or not. 00:25:34.995 --> 00:25:39.375 But if it's required, everybody needs to sort of figure out that their places 00:25:39.375 --> 00:25:42.105 might switch around here, but it's in the best interest of the business, right? 00:25:42.265 --> 00:25:42.705 That's. 00:25:44.130 --> 00:25:46.980 And the second thing you said too is, you know, kind of preparing for, and 00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:50.520 this is somewhat self-serving here, but you're speaking to, what I refer 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:53.700 to and you maybe know from listening to me, is the c r o readiness part of 00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:57.120 the whole thing, which is making your company ready for achieve revenue. 00:25:57.125 --> 00:25:57.210 Mm-hmm. 00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:58.860 That's really what we're talking about right now. 00:25:58.860 --> 00:25:59.040 Right? 00:25:59.045 --> 00:26:01.800 We're, we're creating a new position that's gonna have a, 00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:03.330 like cross-functional oversight. 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:04.880 It's very disruptive. 00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:07.800 So you mentioned something that I think is really important. 00:26:07.800 --> 00:26:09.870 I'd love to find out out more about this cuz this is the area that 00:26:09.870 --> 00:26:11.790 we're looking to help people is. 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:15.570 Getting ready for the chief revenue officer and like we put this 00:26:15.570 --> 00:26:19.320 person, we put Jackie in this job and you said it very articulately. 00:26:19.770 --> 00:26:22.230 Now you gotta like, like learn things. 00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:23.879 You gotta learn like what's going on. 00:26:23.879 --> 00:26:27.449 You gotta have access to stuff and you have to be able to assess it and, 00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:31.899 you know, know what it is and then be able to optimize it or figure out how 00:26:32.139 --> 00:26:33.810 much of it is not good or what's bad. 00:26:33.810 --> 00:26:35.250 And it's mostly data and right. 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:37.710 You know, how did you do that? 00:26:37.770 --> 00:26:38.040 Yep. 00:26:38.129 --> 00:26:40.890 Like what was the methodology and the process that you took to become 00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:44.640 smarter about what was really going on that allowed you to then 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.210 be able to be ready to start? 00:26:48.795 --> 00:26:50.505 Implementing whatever you wanted. 00:26:50.715 --> 00:26:51.195 How did you do that? 00:26:51.225 --> 00:26:51.435 Yeah, 00:26:51.435 --> 00:26:55.425 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: so, um, luckily we had a ton of reporting 00:26:55.425 --> 00:26:57.795 and data in the organization already. 00:26:58.155 --> 00:27:03.765 Um, and as you know from my background, uh, data and analytics 00:27:03.795 --> 00:27:05.655 is, you know, my happy place. 00:27:05.955 --> 00:27:11.800 So, What I did was kind of, you know, do a debrief with the kind of team 00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:13.570 on, okay, where, where are things? 00:27:13.570 --> 00:27:14.290 What are we doing? 00:27:14.770 --> 00:27:20.050 And then I basically created a research plan and I said, okay, here's 00:27:20.050 --> 00:27:24.160 all the things that I would wanna be able to look at, you know, from. 00:27:25.070 --> 00:27:29.090 You know, new business rates, conversions, what's our mql, ql, S A 00:27:29.090 --> 00:27:30.920 l, conversion rates, what's the timing? 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:35.120 What does it look like across reps, verticals, industries, every single thing. 00:27:35.510 --> 00:27:39.410 Um, and basically created a laundry list of reports that I would need to 00:27:39.410 --> 00:27:41.900 see worked with the business ops team. 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:48.560 Um, and also had to work with them because the way that I wanted to look at data and 00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:50.230 some of the reports that I wanted to look. 00:27:50.745 --> 00:27:54.705 Weren't necessarily how management had been looking at them before. 00:27:55.064 --> 00:27:58.455 So we had a ton of reports, which were really helpful, but they 00:27:58.455 --> 00:28:02.024 weren't all through the lens of how I would wanna look at the business. 00:28:02.325 --> 00:28:05.564 So I kind of had to, you know, take a step back and I was like, I know we have 00:28:05.564 --> 00:28:09.975 a lot of historical data, but I wanna look at it in this way because I need 00:28:09.975 --> 00:28:11.895 to answer these business questions. 00:28:12.345 --> 00:28:18.659 So, It literally created a sheet of here's what I'm trying to sell for and 00:28:18.659 --> 00:28:22.710 here are the ways that I need to look at the data in order to get to that. 00:28:23.159 --> 00:28:28.290 And then I spent weeks in, um, spreadsheets and analytics just going 00:28:28.290 --> 00:28:33.750 through it and then work to create, you know, a bottoms up plan for the 00:28:33.750 --> 00:28:39.570 business for our 2023 budget that I felt was actually reliable and that I could 00:28:39.570 --> 00:28:42.090 stand behind and that whole process. 00:28:42.810 --> 00:28:45.870 Helped me figure out like, okay, here's the gaps that we have. 00:28:45.899 --> 00:28:50.399 Here's where we have, you know, um, maybe a bunch of renewals coming up. 00:28:50.405 --> 00:28:53.040 So we have an opportunity over here in this particular part of the 00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:58.080 business, but you know, maybe we aren't running as many events this 00:28:58.080 --> 00:29:00.149 year because of marketing spend. 00:29:00.149 --> 00:29:03.120 So how does that impact that whole conversion cycle and 00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:04.110 play all the way through? 00:29:04.110 --> 00:29:07.139 So it really was a data and analytics led. 00:29:08.245 --> 00:29:12.745 Initiative and then conversations across marketing with the c e o, 00:29:12.745 --> 00:29:15.745 with everybody to say, okay, here's how I'm thinking about things. 00:29:15.745 --> 00:29:17.575 How does this jive with what you're doing? 00:29:18.025 --> 00:29:21.745 Um, and back to the CMO perspective, I mean, we very 00:29:21.745 --> 00:29:23.815 much had to be in sync, right? 00:29:23.815 --> 00:29:26.995 Because their goals about creating the pipeline that is gonna 00:29:27.325 --> 00:29:30.625 feed this plan, we had to be. 00:29:30.890 --> 00:29:32.540 Thinking about the numbers in the same way. 00:29:32.540 --> 00:29:34.160 We had to be speaking the same language. 00:29:34.580 --> 00:29:37.310 And I work with a fantastic cmo. 00:29:37.310 --> 00:29:39.230 I don't even wanna say his name because then somebody might 00:29:39.230 --> 00:29:40.190 try to reach out and grab him. 00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:42.860 But he, he's done this a couple times. 00:29:43.190 --> 00:29:45.050 He's phenomenal to work with. 00:29:45.410 --> 00:29:49.220 And you know, we came to an agreement of what we were looking at and 00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:53.700 dealing with, and we just stay in lockstep on making sure that. 00:29:54.070 --> 00:29:58.330 Both the assumptions that we built into that initial plan are holding, and then 00:29:58.330 --> 00:30:02.770 if something changes, then we need to make adjustments and understand like, 00:30:03.010 --> 00:30:07.450 is that a me adjustment because now I need to condense my, uh, conversion 00:30:07.450 --> 00:30:09.370 rates on the back end of the deal? 00:30:09.370 --> 00:30:11.830 Or is that a you assumption and impact because. 00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:16.709 Actually, it's taking things longer to get through from stage one to stage two. 00:30:17.010 --> 00:30:18.659 How are we gonna impact that? 00:30:18.929 --> 00:30:22.199 And it's a constant trade off and back and forth to make sure that we're 00:30:22.199 --> 00:30:24.540 still narrowing in on the same end 00:30:24.540 --> 00:30:24.810 Warren Zena: targets. 00:30:25.129 --> 00:30:25.409 That's great. 00:30:25.590 --> 00:30:26.100 Really great. 00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:28.709 So you didn't need any third party help. 00:30:28.830 --> 00:30:30.120 Uh, you did this all yourselves. 00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:32.459 It was all your own internal methodologies and stuff. 00:30:32.459 --> 00:30:33.610 You utilized your. 00:30:33.910 --> 00:30:35.500 Internal resources to do this analysis, 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:35.860 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: right? 00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:36.220 Yeah. 00:30:36.220 --> 00:30:39.790 And we have, um, so we started a partnership with Vista Equity 00:30:39.790 --> 00:30:41.800 Partners back in January of last year. 00:30:42.070 --> 00:30:46.300 So luckily we have them as a partner too, to kind of check it on. 00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:51.070 And they have some great benchmarks that we can use around, you know, how 00:30:51.070 --> 00:30:55.180 do our conversion rates look compared to others in the business, or, you know, 00:30:55.180 --> 00:31:00.010 what are the profiles of successful reps that they're seeing across other. 00:31:01.095 --> 00:31:06.705 Um, they have kind of frameworks and screenings that we can use, but if you 00:31:07.695 --> 00:31:13.784 don't have those skill sets in house right then, You absolutely should look 00:31:13.784 --> 00:31:19.784 for partners that you trust, and I think also be realistic about the CRO that 00:31:19.784 --> 00:31:25.215 you are thinking about bringing in, which is relative to your CEO and the 00:31:25.215 --> 00:31:26.774 other parts of your leadership team. 00:31:27.075 --> 00:31:30.284 So if you have a CEO who's super commercially focused 00:31:30.645 --> 00:31:32.745 and maybe has a pension for. 00:31:33.215 --> 00:31:37.394 Sales, then you might need a different profile of a CRO. 00:31:37.685 --> 00:31:41.554 If you don't have somebody who is as commercially strong, 00:31:41.554 --> 00:31:45.185 maybe your CRO needs to be, you know, more commercially focused. 00:31:45.189 --> 00:31:47.774 So I think that's important too, is just to be. 00:31:48.419 --> 00:31:51.209 Brutally honest, which not everybody is good at, right? 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.919 Of understanding what your own strengths are and weaknesses as a leader, 00:31:56.280 --> 00:31:57.899 but also within the organization. 00:31:57.899 --> 00:32:02.010 If you don't have a great biz ops team or you know, you don't have 00:32:02.010 --> 00:32:05.189 the in-house data, then you need somebody else to kind of help you 00:32:05.429 --> 00:32:08.100 figure that out and and be a resource. 00:32:08.105 --> 00:32:12.689 And I think sometimes people shy away from that because they don't want to. 00:32:13.485 --> 00:32:17.055 Maybe admit the parts of their business that aren't as far along 00:32:17.445 --> 00:32:18.615 structurally as they should be. 00:32:19.004 --> 00:32:24.315 Uh, and so they shy away from so much easier to work with consultants or 00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:27.435 anybody if you're true about what you have to work with and what you do. 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:27.845 Warren Zena: Yeah, that's so true. 00:32:28.115 --> 00:32:29.004 That's so true. 00:32:29.004 --> 00:32:32.485 So I like what you said before, it's really important is there's a, like, 00:32:32.535 --> 00:32:34.275 almost like a leadership profile. 00:32:36.270 --> 00:32:40.830 The people who are in place and they have strengths that need to be 00:32:40.830 --> 00:32:44.010 reflective of the type of c o that you bring on that has to be the right fit. 00:32:44.130 --> 00:32:46.470 You know, because I think the initial feeling is in a 00:32:46.475 --> 00:32:47.460 blank slate is that mm-hmm. 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:51.570 You're gonna hire some really commercially brilliant c o which obviously 00:32:51.570 --> 00:32:52.860 makes sense cuz that's their role. 00:32:52.865 --> 00:32:53.850 But you're right. 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.190 If, if you have a CEO who's really strong, You probably need someone who's a little 00:32:58.190 --> 00:33:00.140 bit more analytical to fill that slot up. 00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:02.770 I mean, I'm not like you, you and I are opposites. 00:33:02.775 --> 00:33:05.090 I, I'm less the analytics and data person. 00:33:05.090 --> 00:33:08.810 I'm more the, you know, business leader, you know, vision person. 00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:15.590 Um, and so, you know, I know like I think the key is here. 00:33:16.565 --> 00:33:18.965 And we're sort of, right now, you and I are speaking to like, let's 00:33:18.965 --> 00:33:21.275 say, two different people in this one part of this conversation. 00:33:21.275 --> 00:33:25.385 That is CEOs looking for chief Revenue officers and people who wanna become Chief 00:33:25.385 --> 00:33:29.165 Revenue Officers are two key constituents that are following this podcast. 00:33:29.675 --> 00:33:36.035 On the CEO's side, it's know thy self, what type of CRO is gonna compliment 00:33:36.035 --> 00:33:38.235 your leadership style best, and to your. 00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:39.980 Be honest about that. 00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:41.090 Like what really is it? 00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:43.130 Like what are you not good at, and what are you good at? 00:33:43.130 --> 00:33:46.790 And be willing to be really succinct about that because if your ego takes 00:33:46.790 --> 00:33:48.860 over and you're not willing to be succinct, you're probably gonna bring 00:33:48.860 --> 00:33:50.930 in somebody that isn't a fit and. 00:33:51.575 --> 00:33:52.265 That's not good. 00:33:52.535 --> 00:33:56.525 And then the second thing is, if you are a CRO, and I, I tell this, you, you 00:33:56.530 --> 00:34:00.125 wanna become, and I tell this to my, my clients all the time, is understand 00:34:00.125 --> 00:34:04.055 the profile of the leadership team that you're gonna be plugged into, and make 00:34:04.055 --> 00:34:08.915 sure that your skillset stack is a fit for the company that you're going into. 00:34:09.305 --> 00:34:14.345 And there's no duplication or redundancy or conflict, right? 00:34:14.765 --> 00:34:19.585 Because if you're a superpower, Is gonna be in any way impeded by somebody 00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:20.975 else's desire to want to use that thing. 00:34:21.035 --> 00:34:22.775 You're not gonna be useful there, you know? 00:34:23.585 --> 00:34:26.915 So I guess that's sort of, I want to go with the next part of this conversation 00:34:26.915 --> 00:34:30.395 is what would your, and we kind of did it already, but maybe expound on it. 00:34:30.395 --> 00:34:31.475 What's your advice to. 00:34:31.779 --> 00:34:35.680 Two people that the CEO looking to hire a chief revenue officer, let's just 00:34:35.680 --> 00:34:38.140 say for the scenario's sake, they're at the same kind of, well, you know, 00:34:38.140 --> 00:34:41.470 20, 30 million in revenues and they're ready to make that sort of jump to that 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:43.689 more scalable and aligned organization. 00:34:44.170 --> 00:34:49.540 What are the, what key ways, key criteria or uh, methodologies or ways 00:34:49.545 --> 00:34:53.949 you should be thinking about how to bring on a Chief Revenue Officer first ceo? 00:34:53.949 --> 00:34:54.159 Yeah. 00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:57.410 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: For a ceo, I would say what we were talking 00:34:57.410 --> 00:35:01.490 about being, you know, brutally honest about yourself as a CEO and the rest of 00:35:01.490 --> 00:35:03.860 your leadership team in what's truly. 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:05.300 Missing. 00:35:05.300 --> 00:35:11.000 So why is it that you need a CRO and what do you hope to get out of that role? 00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:16.070 Um, I think that one that is crystal clear and then from there you can kind of create 00:35:16.070 --> 00:35:21.410 a profile of what you think that person should bring to the table and be like. 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:29.030 Um, the second thing I would recommend is, you know, ensuring that you are really 00:35:29.030 --> 00:35:35.525 thinking about a cro r and not an SVP of sales because, You know, back to your, 00:35:35.525 --> 00:35:36.845 like one of your first comments, right? 00:35:36.845 --> 00:35:40.415 There's a lot of mix up and what is a cro r o really? 00:35:40.745 --> 00:35:44.645 And you don't need a CRO if you need an SVP of sales. 00:35:44.645 --> 00:35:45.725 This is two different things. 00:35:46.265 --> 00:35:49.595 So you could be transparent with somebody coming in and say, listen, I'm trying 00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:51.455 to fill this SVP of sales right now. 00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:54.125 Oh, I need you to get this sales house in order. 00:35:54.455 --> 00:35:58.215 And then, you know, I want to pass this to a CRO. 00:35:58.685 --> 00:36:02.345 Or you need to make sure that you've structured for. 00:36:02.690 --> 00:36:06.660 You know, that VP level of leadership across your teams and allow the 00:36:06.870 --> 00:36:12.500 CRO to really focus on the business of driving and owning the, the 00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:14.390 revenue strategy for the company. 00:36:14.900 --> 00:36:20.720 Um, and then also I think for a lot of, you know, maybe founder led 00:36:20.725 --> 00:36:27.650 or earlier stage companies being realistic on the readiness to. 00:36:28.550 --> 00:36:30.770 Take feedback from the CRO, right? 00:36:30.890 --> 00:36:35.510 Like do you want the CRO just to say you have the c r o, or are you open to them 00:36:35.510 --> 00:36:41.779 telling you that you need to change the go-to-market strategy, or that you need 00:36:41.779 --> 00:36:47.060 to make changes to whatever you know, software service product you're selling? 00:36:47.270 --> 00:36:48.500 Are you ready to give up? 00:36:49.005 --> 00:36:53.355 The pricing method that you, you know, cried in a back room building, 00:36:53.355 --> 00:36:55.815 you know, some late night when you were building up the business. 00:36:55.845 --> 00:37:01.735 All of those, like more, uh, intangible readiness factors that as a CEO, 00:37:01.755 --> 00:37:06.075 especially if you're a founder, CEO, you need to like, get real honest 00:37:06.080 --> 00:37:09.285 with yourself how many of those legos you're, you're willing to let. 00:37:10.325 --> 00:37:10.835 Warren Zena: Really great. 00:37:11.045 --> 00:37:11.465 Thank you. 00:37:12.005 --> 00:37:13.835 So now I'm a CRO, or I'm aspiring one. 00:37:13.835 --> 00:37:16.685 Let's say I'm having SVP of sales and I'm tired of it. 00:37:16.775 --> 00:37:18.545 I'm ready to get take on your role. 00:37:18.545 --> 00:37:19.865 I wanna own the whole thing. 00:37:21.335 --> 00:37:25.955 In your view, what's the way that someone should approach that role? 00:37:25.985 --> 00:37:26.505 What's the right. 00:37:28.550 --> 00:37:31.700 A someone who's running a sales organization, which frankly, and 00:37:31.700 --> 00:37:33.590 I know you and I probably would agree, this is not necessarily a 00:37:33.590 --> 00:37:36.560 good thing, but 90% of the people that become CROs are from sales. 00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:36.800 Right. 00:37:37.279 --> 00:37:39.439 Um, and I think we agree that's probably not the best thing. 00:37:39.470 --> 00:37:39.529 Yeah. 00:37:39.529 --> 00:37:43.069 Cause you, you're proving clearly that it might not be, but. 00:37:43.655 --> 00:37:46.625 What would a, uh, head of marketing or head of sales who wants to 00:37:46.625 --> 00:37:49.655 be a CRO be thinking about as they approach the marketplace to 00:37:49.655 --> 00:37:50.705 become a Chief Revenue officer? 00:37:50.765 --> 00:37:51.035 I think 00:37:51.035 --> 00:37:54.485 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: doing the same kind of self-assessment on 00:37:54.755 --> 00:38:01.875 what are your strengths and weaknesses, so what is it about this mythical CRO 00:38:01.895 --> 00:38:06.335 role that you think is gonna fulfill you in a way that your job isn't? 00:38:06.785 --> 00:38:09.080 And then, You set up best, right? 00:38:09.080 --> 00:38:13.819 Making sure that you vet the opportunities that you're going after, that they align 00:38:13.819 --> 00:38:18.140 with that because you know, especially if you're somebody who's coming up in 00:38:18.260 --> 00:38:22.340 your ranks and trying to make it into the C-suite, if you take, if you move 00:38:22.345 --> 00:38:28.910 from, you know, some other role into the CRO role, and let's say you were an 00:38:29.220 --> 00:38:33.920 SVP of sales and the particular CEO that you're going to work with wants a more 00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.390 analytical and maybe operational CRO 00:38:38.045 --> 00:38:43.925 if your superpower and your magical ability is to be phenomenal in closing 00:38:43.925 --> 00:38:49.415 deals and structuring a new business team or doing whatever, and that's not 00:38:49.415 --> 00:38:53.694 fulfilling what the CEO know wants, you're gonna feel like you're failing as a CRO. 00:38:54.515 --> 00:39:00.274 But what is actually going on is you're failing in that particular expectation of 00:39:00.274 --> 00:39:03.215 the CRO profile for that particular c e o. 00:39:03.635 --> 00:39:06.605 And you know, especially for women, you. 00:39:07.640 --> 00:39:11.600 I've coached so many women who are trying to kind of make their way up in 00:39:11.660 --> 00:39:15.740 different organizations, and I have to constantly remind them that it's, it's not 00:39:15.740 --> 00:39:18.350 that you failed being the thing, right? 00:39:18.350 --> 00:39:23.510 Whatever it is, it's that that wasn't the role for you in that context. 00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:26.180 That doesn't mean you can't be a great SVP of sales somewhere else, 00:39:26.180 --> 00:39:30.620 a CRO, like whatever you're trying to be, but you kind of have to be 00:39:30.620 --> 00:39:35.960 realistic about how much of that was your skillset for the role versus. 00:39:36.395 --> 00:39:41.194 Your skillset compared to the expectations of that particular role profile. 00:39:41.194 --> 00:39:42.875 And that's a big, big difference. 00:39:43.115 --> 00:39:46.415 That can sometimes send people spinning, quite honestly, for a while. 00:39:46.444 --> 00:39:46.595 It's 00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:49.055 Warren Zena: so, so astute, and you're so right and you 00:39:49.055 --> 00:39:50.404 have to find the right partner. 00:39:50.404 --> 00:39:50.645 Right? 00:39:50.645 --> 00:39:53.465 I mean, it's like any long-term committed relationship, right? 00:39:53.465 --> 00:39:54.154 I mean, yeah. 00:39:54.335 --> 00:39:55.295 You know, some people. 00:39:56.825 --> 00:40:00.335 Have two marriages, one ended horribly, the other one is ma massively successful. 00:40:00.335 --> 00:40:03.875 So obviously it was, you know, you need to find the right partner 00:40:03.885 --> 00:40:07.325 to, to, to fulfill on the way in which you were able to participate 00:40:07.325 --> 00:40:08.465 in that particular relationship. 00:40:08.555 --> 00:40:12.545 And you're right, uh, you know, the, the main thing I see happen with Chief 00:40:12.545 --> 00:40:15.904 Revenue Officers who don't make it is they come out thinking like, you know, well, 00:40:15.904 --> 00:40:18.845 Natalie only, they think it was their fault, but the CEO always blamed them too. 00:40:18.875 --> 00:40:20.075 Oh, it was the wrong person. 00:40:20.135 --> 00:40:21.545 God, I can't believe I hired this idiot. 00:40:21.965 --> 00:40:22.774 It was like, no, we. 00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:26.010 The person was actually incredibly qualified, just wasn't right for 00:40:26.010 --> 00:40:29.340 your company, and you didn't know that you, you did a bad job of 00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:33.600 assessing the person properly because you took a great candidate. 00:40:34.340 --> 00:40:37.250 And put them into a non-winning situation and then you kick 00:40:37.250 --> 00:40:38.600 them out and blame them for it. 00:40:39.050 --> 00:40:41.000 And you know, this is a very common thing. 00:40:41.210 --> 00:40:43.370 And so what happens is people come out of these CRO jobs, like they're 00:40:43.370 --> 00:40:46.430 all beaten up and they don't want to take the next one because they look 00:40:46.430 --> 00:40:48.680 back at, at the experience, they're like, why would I wanna do that again? 00:40:48.680 --> 00:40:50.359 It's like, well, look, you just picked the wrong partner. 00:40:50.630 --> 00:40:51.620 What did you learn? 00:40:51.620 --> 00:40:53.480 What did you learn from that engagement? 00:40:53.540 --> 00:40:55.310 That you could bring to the next opportunity. 00:40:55.310 --> 00:40:59.000 There's probably 10 additional questions that you have now that you should 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.071 ask that you could take from that experience, and you'll probably get 00:41:02.230 --> 00:41:03.680 a lot better opportunities, right? 00:41:03.710 --> 00:41:06.200 There's no like, like dating, you know, I mean, you just, you figure 00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:07.820 out how to like vet things better. 00:41:08.270 --> 00:41:13.610 And I think that, you know, what I try to tell my CEO clients is it's not about 00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:17.900 finding the perfect candidate, it's about being the company that's ready for one. 00:41:17.990 --> 00:41:21.770 And the reality is, if you're not, no one's coming in here to fix you. 00:41:21.830 --> 00:41:22.640 It doesn't work that. 00:41:23.525 --> 00:41:24.575 You've gotta be ready. 00:41:24.965 --> 00:41:26.315 You gotta know what you're looking for. 00:41:26.645 --> 00:41:29.045 You gotta have the right understanding of your environment and you gotta 00:41:29.045 --> 00:41:32.585 know how to find a person that's a good fit and make that person win. 00:41:32.885 --> 00:41:34.475 And I, I'll repeat some things I say. 00:41:34.475 --> 00:41:37.385 You have to have, you have to be able to willing to give the c r o 00:41:37.775 --> 00:41:41.735 the autonomy, the authority, and the runway and the resources to succeed. 00:41:42.904 --> 00:41:43.055 Yep. 00:41:43.475 --> 00:41:47.660 And if they have those four things, Those things don't just come because it's magic. 00:41:47.660 --> 00:41:52.040 They come because they're a fit and that those things can, you can afford to give 00:41:52.040 --> 00:41:55.430 them to that person without concern that it'll knock the ship over, you know? 00:41:55.560 --> 00:41:56.170 Mm-hmm. 00:41:56.250 --> 00:41:59.750 And when you put a stressor on a CEO that says you have to give the 00:41:59.750 --> 00:42:03.080 person these things, they're gonna vet them a lot differently than if they 00:42:03.080 --> 00:42:04.460 don't have to give them those things. 00:42:04.729 --> 00:42:07.640 So it's almost like you up the level of commitment level that 00:42:07.640 --> 00:42:10.520 they have to take, and it forces them to be a lot more scrutinizing 00:42:10.520 --> 00:42:11.630 of the kind of person they hire. 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:13.220 A lot of times, unfortunately, these. 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.520 They, they're trying to fill 'em as quickly as possible, you know, and they 00:42:17.520 --> 00:42:19.649 make some very superficial decisions. 00:42:19.649 --> 00:42:22.020 Oh, he had a job at the other company that I liked so much, 00:42:22.020 --> 00:42:23.160 or our competitor liked him. 00:42:23.160 --> 00:42:25.770 You know, it's not the right reason to hire somebody. 00:42:25.770 --> 00:42:27.930 I mean, it might be, but you know, no. 00:42:27.930 --> 00:42:30.029 How about just doing a competency assessment of your 00:42:30.029 --> 00:42:31.200 organization and match it up? 00:42:31.740 --> 00:42:32.580 That's a tough thing. 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:33.970 So I think CROs. 00:42:34.715 --> 00:42:38.825 Need to be a lot more battle worthy than CEOs do because they're the 00:42:38.830 --> 00:42:40.234 ones going into the buzz saw. 00:42:40.595 --> 00:42:41.135 So anyway. 00:42:41.135 --> 00:42:42.005 Mm-hmm. 00:42:42.035 --> 00:42:42.995 I love, love this topic. 00:42:43.385 --> 00:42:44.795 So anyway, I wanna kind of float here. 00:42:44.885 --> 00:42:48.995 So what I want to before we close up is, I know when you and I spoke pre, the 00:42:48.995 --> 00:42:52.925 pre-conversation is I know there are a couple of things that you're particularly 00:42:52.925 --> 00:42:55.654 passionate about in the role that you have, and I wanna make sure that I 00:42:55.654 --> 00:42:58.205 have an opportunity to address those so you can get a chance to talk about. 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.410 Um, you know, what, what would be like a topic that hasn't been touched on 00:43:02.410 --> 00:43:05.350 on this conversation yet that you just would love to expound on a little bit 00:43:05.350 --> 00:43:06.700 that you feel is important to you? 00:43:06.790 --> 00:43:07.180 Uh, I 00:43:07.180 --> 00:43:08.710 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: think one, you know what we were talking 00:43:08.710 --> 00:43:12.760 about with e p E, so the expertise, partnership and empathy that we 00:43:12.765 --> 00:43:19.000 bring to all of our interactions as a way to really reframe sales. 00:43:19.270 --> 00:43:20.109 Um, you. 00:43:20.830 --> 00:43:22.970 I mean, CROs are kind of like CMOs, right? 00:43:22.970 --> 00:43:25.740 I think the last Sta I heard was, you know, the average CRO 00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.830 is in seat for about 18 months. 00:43:28.130 --> 00:43:29.520 So yeah, it's about that. 00:43:29.525 --> 00:43:34.340 Yeah, I, uh, I just hope that, you know, if I'm granted 18 months, if I'm 00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:41.075 granted more than that, that when I leave, you know, At least sales won't 00:43:41.075 --> 00:43:46.295 have, you know, maybe such the, um, stigma as it does sometimes today. 00:43:46.595 --> 00:43:50.885 Like, I want to leave the industry a better place where customers feel like 00:43:51.245 --> 00:43:57.485 they can truly be honest about what they need and feel like the providers 00:43:57.485 --> 00:44:00.665 that they're collaborating with are there to help them get that done. 00:44:01.145 --> 00:44:02.455 And you. 00:44:02.870 --> 00:44:06.410 That goes back to not just having a different profile. 00:44:06.410 --> 00:44:10.340 I will never be, you know, the maybe typical salesperson who 00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:14.750 walks in and is, you know, chatting up the whole room and, you know, 00:44:14.750 --> 00:44:16.910 trying to cut deals here and there. 00:44:17.180 --> 00:44:22.010 But what I will do is listen and ask really maybe qu more qualitatively 00:44:22.010 --> 00:44:24.470 research driven questions to a customer. 00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:27.000 What is it that they're trying to achieve? 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.990 Um, because especially so our space and customer data platforms, it's 00:44:30.990 --> 00:44:32.610 a transformational technology. 00:44:32.610 --> 00:44:36.930 So, you know, you're going through a major SaaS implementation and the 00:44:36.930 --> 00:44:40.319 more honest, open, and transparent our customers are with us. 00:44:40.684 --> 00:44:44.194 During the sales process, the better we can devise solutions 00:44:44.194 --> 00:44:45.515 for them on the backend. 00:44:46.115 --> 00:44:49.925 But if there's no trust upfront, then you get through the sales process and 00:44:49.925 --> 00:44:52.984 a customer's like, oh, but I forgot to tell you that we actually need to connect 00:44:53.255 --> 00:44:55.175 these three other marketing systems. 00:44:55.625 --> 00:44:59.225 And I also forgot that one of those contracts is going 00:44:59.285 --> 00:45:00.365 to expire in three months. 00:45:00.365 --> 00:45:03.335 And so everything has to be connected, you know, before that happens. 00:45:04.025 --> 00:45:08.075 And so then our teams have to react and they're super frustrated 00:45:08.075 --> 00:45:12.485 because you've gotta condense like a four month project into six weeks. 00:45:12.815 --> 00:45:15.455 And the customer is super frustrated cuz they're like, 00:45:15.455 --> 00:45:17.075 why can't you do what I asked? 00:45:17.585 --> 00:45:20.105 And it's like the whole myth is perpetuated again. 00:45:20.255 --> 00:45:22.085 It's like, well, cuz you as. 00:45:22.375 --> 00:45:25.195 Salespeople were saying, well, you weren't transparent with us. 00:45:25.495 --> 00:45:28.345 And they're saying, you know, that's because you sold me something. 00:45:28.345 --> 00:45:29.515 That wasn't what I expected. 00:45:29.785 --> 00:45:34.165 And so again, if it's, if it's six months, 18 months, if it's five years, 00:45:34.435 --> 00:45:37.075 I just, I want people to say that. 00:45:38.555 --> 00:45:44.345 Sales chief revenue officer, whatever, could be a career for me because I'm 00:45:44.345 --> 00:45:46.415 passionate about helping customers. 00:45:46.715 --> 00:45:50.795 So that's one of the, one of the things that I'm super passionate about. 00:45:51.035 --> 00:45:56.465 And also making sure that, you know, access to revenue roles and you know, 00:45:56.465 --> 00:46:00.694 especially new business sales roles where there's a lot of upside if you do. 00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.570 That shouldn't be limited to a certain type of typical profile. 00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:09.710 Um, and like I said, I certainly never imagined myself in any kind 00:46:09.710 --> 00:46:12.200 of sales role growing, growing up. 00:46:12.680 --> 00:46:15.020 And I feel like there are a lot of people. 00:46:15.080 --> 00:46:18.020 Um, there's one woman that I mentored who was similar. 00:46:18.025 --> 00:46:19.520 She's like, I don't have a sales profile. 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.400 And I was like, well, can you do these five things? 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:23.630 And she's like, yeah, I love those. 00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:24.770 I'm like, great. 00:46:24.830 --> 00:46:27.230 You are gonna be a phenomenal salesperson. 00:46:27.260 --> 00:46:27.890 I'm like, let's. 00:46:28.805 --> 00:46:30.904 Talk about how you put this into action. 00:46:31.235 --> 00:46:34.685 So I think that that's important and I think it's really important that we 00:46:34.685 --> 00:46:40.625 introduce that to people, especially, you know, non-traditional profiles 00:46:40.715 --> 00:46:44.555 earlier in their careers to give them a shot and an exposure to that. 00:46:44.555 --> 00:46:44.915 Warren Zena: That's great. 00:46:45.005 --> 00:46:45.395 Love it. 00:46:45.545 --> 00:46:51.185 And I'm agreement, I think that the sales culture that you speak of, in 00:46:51.185 --> 00:46:53.885 my opinion, I mean, if you share the opinion, I think it's getting worse. 00:46:54.185 --> 00:46:58.370 And the reason why I think it's getting worse is because, Companies 00:46:58.370 --> 00:47:05.420 have adopted these mass messaging and automation processes, you know, 00:47:05.420 --> 00:47:08.149 SDR groups and automation platforms. 00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:13.819 It's just too easy to just spam huge groups of customers or prospects now. 00:47:14.510 --> 00:47:19.279 And um, I also think the growth at all costs, sort of cultures mm-hmm. 00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:22.850 That have pervasive in the last five or so years have resulted in 00:47:22.850 --> 00:47:24.590 deploying these sales strategies. 00:47:25.265 --> 00:47:28.654 Are so counter to customer experiences that it's so wonder 00:47:28.654 --> 00:47:29.795 people are sh turned off. 00:47:29.795 --> 00:47:34.295 You know, and I, I talk about this a lot and um, a lot of the people in my, you. 00:47:36.205 --> 00:47:39.394 Universe or ecosystem are very pro SDR groups because they are 00:47:39.394 --> 00:47:40.835 SDRs, they run them and stuff. 00:47:40.835 --> 00:47:40.894 Yeah. 00:47:40.894 --> 00:47:43.295 And I don't wanna single them out, but it's, that's a, I think 00:47:43.295 --> 00:47:44.915 it's a symptom of the issue. 00:47:45.005 --> 00:47:49.475 The SDR group, it's a, it's an outcome of an effort to try and do whatever 00:47:49.475 --> 00:47:52.805 we can to get as many people inside of a funnel as humanly possible. 00:47:52.934 --> 00:47:58.805 Because I think people have lost the focus on, well, how do customers feel about. 00:47:59.894 --> 00:48:02.314 You know, like, I dunno if anybody asked this question. 00:48:02.314 --> 00:48:03.425 I, I don't know if they do. 00:48:03.845 --> 00:48:07.625 And, and I think it's incredible to me and as a result, and I 00:48:07.630 --> 00:48:11.375 think you agree a hundred percent with this, is companies that do. 00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:15.200 They have a great opportunity, I mean a huge opportunity cuz it's 00:48:15.200 --> 00:48:18.230 refreshing for customers these days to go, wow, that was a really nice sales 00:48:18.230 --> 00:48:19.730 conversation I just had with somebody. 00:48:19.730 --> 00:48:23.450 Mason's really giving shit about me and you know, that's really bizarre, you know? 00:48:23.455 --> 00:48:23.690 Wow. 00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:25.610 I'd learned that could make a big difference. 00:48:25.610 --> 00:48:25.790 Right? 00:48:25.795 --> 00:48:27.950 Because let's face it, a lot of the products and services 00:48:27.955 --> 00:48:28.940 in the SaaS industry are. 00:48:29.160 --> 00:48:30.300 Competing with other ones. 00:48:30.305 --> 00:48:31.800 There's other platforms that do the same thing. 00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:33.120 They're just, you know, minor, you know? 00:48:33.359 --> 00:48:33.450 Yep. 00:48:33.450 --> 00:48:34.350 Little differences and stuff. 00:48:34.770 --> 00:48:37.170 So the differentiators aren't necessarily gonna be features. 00:48:37.170 --> 00:48:40.410 They're gonna be more like the way you go to market and the way that you talk to 00:48:40.410 --> 00:48:43.529 people because it's, yeah, it's, people are hiring you at the end of the day. 00:48:44.010 --> 00:48:45.090 So I just think it's great. 00:48:45.095 --> 00:48:48.540 Your, your, uh, your passions, your, your focus on those 00:48:48.540 --> 00:48:49.770 things are very similar to mine. 00:48:49.770 --> 00:48:51.540 I mean, I started this business for the same reason. 00:48:51.540 --> 00:48:55.885 I think that Chief Revenue Officers are critical because, They look at the 00:48:55.885 --> 00:48:59.845 whole thing and they, they move away from the sales function as a single 00:48:59.845 --> 00:49:02.995 spear that's targeting the market all the time and looking at more the way. 00:49:03.025 --> 00:49:03.355 Mm-hmm. 00:49:03.600 --> 00:49:06.325 You surround a customer with the right sort of experience so that you 00:49:06.325 --> 00:49:10.555 can build value and the organization shares information about that customer. 00:49:10.885 --> 00:49:12.805 So anyway, I really appreciate that. 00:49:13.215 --> 00:49:15.765 So how can people get in touch with you and tell us a little bit 00:49:15.765 --> 00:49:18.045 more about what you're doing and some of the things you're up to. 00:49:18.045 --> 00:49:20.835 So, you know, if anybody wants to reach out to you, you sound like you coach a 00:49:20.835 --> 00:49:23.715 lot of people, you mentor a lot of people and talk about a little bit about your 00:49:23.715 --> 00:49:27.645 business and um, let's make sure that you get a little opportunity to get a 00:49:27.645 --> 00:49:29.295 little bit more, you know, exposure on 00:49:29.295 --> 00:49:29.385 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: this. 00:49:29.535 --> 00:49:29.775 Yeah. 00:49:29.775 --> 00:49:34.965 So, um, LinkedIn, um, LinkedIn, Prova, it's Jackie r a or you know, 00:49:34.965 --> 00:49:36.285 find me Jackie Russo Anderson. 00:49:36.609 --> 00:49:38.710 Uh, Jackie Blue chronic.com. 00:49:38.710 --> 00:49:39.910 Shoot me an email. 00:49:39.910 --> 00:49:43.300 I'm always happy to chat, especially with folks who are thinking about 00:49:43.300 --> 00:49:45.279 this path or having questions. 00:49:45.609 --> 00:49:50.380 Um, wanna talk about, you know, building their skills as a consultative seller. 00:49:50.680 --> 00:49:53.979 Uh, or if they're already phenomenal consultative sellers and they 00:49:53.979 --> 00:49:58.000 wanna work in an environment where that is appreciated, uh, just 00:49:58.029 --> 00:49:59.260 reach out and I would be happy to 00:49:59.260 --> 00:49:59.529 Warren Zena: chat. 00:49:59.859 --> 00:50:00.069 Well, great. 00:50:00.075 --> 00:50:01.000 I learned a couple things here. 00:50:01.870 --> 00:50:02.140 Great. 00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:03.040 So thank. 00:50:03.710 --> 00:50:04.190 I mean it. 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.700 I mean, I did, I got one really great insight I got on this conversation was. 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:13.319 The profile of the CEO e o needs to match the profile of the CRO. 00:50:13.340 --> 00:50:15.350 And even though I thought about it, it's the way you articulated it, 00:50:15.350 --> 00:50:18.230 had me think about it a little bit differently, and I appreciate that. 00:50:18.770 --> 00:50:23.550 Um, and the other one was really insightful is the revenue part of the CRO 00:50:23.575 --> 00:50:26.660 role doesn't just affect the way people hire them, but it affects the people 00:50:26.660 --> 00:50:28.220 that they interact with on customer side. 00:50:28.220 --> 00:50:29.540 They think they're dealing with a sales leader. 00:50:29.540 --> 00:50:32.420 And that's, that's a really great insight and it's one that CROs need 00:50:32.420 --> 00:50:35.330 to be really mindful of, is that that perception precedes them and they have. 00:50:35.645 --> 00:50:36.725 Responsible for it. 00:50:37.175 --> 00:50:38.075 They can't just ignore it. 00:50:38.075 --> 00:50:40.865 They have to understand that that's probably what's going on and they 00:50:40.865 --> 00:50:44.435 have to speak to it so they can work through that instead of just like 00:50:44.585 --> 00:50:48.245 being perceived as someone who's gonna try and, you know, get a deal. 00:50:48.250 --> 00:50:49.415 And that's a really good insight. 00:50:49.415 --> 00:50:49.955 So thank you for that. 00:50:49.955 --> 00:50:50.045 Yes. 00:50:50.705 --> 00:50:52.625 Um, and thank you for being here. 00:50:52.685 --> 00:50:53.705 This was a great conversation. 00:50:53.765 --> 00:50:54.335 I loved it. 00:50:54.425 --> 00:50:59.555 And, um, Uh, hopefully have a chance to speak again and, um, thank you so 00:50:59.555 --> 00:51:00.845 much for taking the time to talk to me. 00:51:00.875 --> 00:51:01.145 Yeah, 00:51:01.145 --> 00:51:01.625 Jacqueline Rousseau- Anderson: anytime. 00:51:01.625 --> 00:51:02.375 Happy to come back. 00:51:02.375 --> 00:51:03.095 Happy to chat. 00:51:03.275 --> 00:51:05.585 Happy to chat with anybody who needs a support group for, 00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:07.475 you know, CRO identity crisis. 00:51:07.775 --> 00:51:09.635 Uh, reach out and I would love to 00:51:09.635 --> 00:51:10.115 Warren Zena: connect. 00:51:10.385 --> 00:51:10.805 Alright, great. 00:51:11.015 --> 00:51:11.675 Well, well, thank you.