You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Go, go, go!
what is up everybody it's the chairman of
the united states department of nerds
where we are for the people by the
people and of the people and in every
town there's a dangerous darkness people
pretend not to see a walkway they don't
walk down a story they're too afraid to
hear but sometimes a storyteller shows up
who's willing to drag that story into the
light
kicking, screaming,
and free-running off every wall in sight.
Tonight, that storyteller is Snake,
the UK writer behind Grinding Against the
Marrow, a brutal, poetic,
street-level character drama published by
Marcosia and praised for its raw honesty
and kinetic narrative energy.
The council is in session, and Snake,
welcome to the United States Department of
Nerds.
Thanks.
Thanks dude.
Cool.
Awesome.
Good to be here.
So for the people at home,
who is snake and where did your creative
journey begin?
Yeah, so I'm from the UK.
I've always written.
I worked in the film industry for a
bit of time, went to film school,
stuff like that.
I worked for the BBC for a bit
of time as a PA.
Also then as a prop man on Kick-Ass
and Black Mirror Season Two.
But, you know,
I wanted to tell my own stories.
They couldn't get you on Doctor Who?
But I wanted to tell my own stories
and like I was a script reader for
a bit of time as well.
But then that was really good because it
was breaking down stories.
So, you know,
if you want to be a storyteller,
it's a really great landscape to explore
story.
But then during and so I've always been
a story caller.
And then during lockdown,
I just I'd always read.
I read I'd read comics since I was
a kid and I was like,
I'm going to start making them.
Why not?
And fell in love with the medium,
stopped wanting to be a playwright,
stopped wanting to be a screenwriter,
stopped wanting to work in the film
industry and was just like,
I want to make comics because the
collaboration is so pure and brilliant and
the medium is so good.
And I enjoy the process of writing a
little bit more.
Each storytelling medium is slightly
different and I enjoy the way you tell
comics with an artist.
So, yeah,
I've just been trying to make comics,
and this one managed to get published.
And so, yeah, that's me at the minute,
and I'm just trying to get more things
published while I'm doing a day job.
Did you invite somebody to the show?
No, I don't think so.
Does somebody else have access to your
account?
Don't think so, no.
Somebody just popped into my stream,
a jock.
No, I don't know.
No idea who it was.
It was really weird.
Nobody has access to this link unless it
was shared.
That was just weird.
I'm thinking it might have been somebody
on the network who accidentally clicked
into my podcast while it was live,
which is wild.
But okay.
Let's keep going.
Did you invite your artists or something?
No.
I did ask him.
I did a couple of other interviews and
I asked him and he was like, no,
no, no, that's not me.
It's crazy because a lot of artists are
that way.
It took me months of coordinating
with the writers of Shock-Headed Peter to
convince Sabe from Italy to come on the
podcast to talk about his artwork on
Shock-Headed Peter.
And it was like, once he was on,
it was an amazing show.
It was so fun.
And he was like, oh, my English.
I'm like, dude,
your English is literally perfect.
I don't know what you're complaining
about.
Yeah, you have the thick Italian accent,
but I'm like, dude, you're good, man.
And his work is freaking brilliant as
well.
But
So what was that spark for grinding
against the marrow?
Was it a character, a theme,
or maybe a moment in your own life
that kind of sparked this idea?
Well, it was more a kind of,
it was less of a kind of creative
input.
The idea was that I didn't feel like
I had a big enough fan base and
I wanted to kind of get my name
more out there.
I'd made a few short comics,
a few like issue long comics.
I was going to get them published.
Problem with the publishers,
things happened.
I wanted to get myself more out there.
So my initial idea was to make a
monthly ongoing series.
web series web comic a vertical web series
and grinding against the marrow is
released every month on tapas webtoons and
uh um global comics
So for anybody wondering,
I did link the Webtoons link to the
description of this video.
It will also be linked to the video
when I re-release it on all the streaming
networks and as well when I re-release on
YouTube Live or YouTube again.
So the link is there if you want
to read the weekly or monthly comic that
he does about grinding with the marrow or
grinding –
Oh,
or where am I grinding against the mirror?
I'll get it out there.
It's grinding on just sounds like a
skateboard thing,
but this is about parkour.
I apologize for that.
And I,
at first I wanted to release it in
black and white.
And so it's, you know, it's free,
it's black and white.
And then I got picked up by my
publisher.
And I also, you know,
you can buy it on Amazon or comicology
and also drive through comics in color.
So, you know,
you can have a little taster,
see if you like it.
And then if you really like it,
you can get it.
And it's going to be published like in
print next year as a graphic novel.
But, you know,
it's just to kind of drum up that
kind of...
It was just trying to get a buzz
going, really.
And then sort of the ideas for it.
Well,
I want to do something kind of gritty
and street drama-y and social realist kind
of like... I mean...
I'm not specific to any set genre,
but for this one,
I wanted to do that.
I also wanted to marry two things that
I'm very interested by, which is A,
parkour, and B, homelessness.
Sometimes at Christmas, I will...
commit my time to helping people who are
homeless on the street at christmas things
like that i think it's you know terrible
thing anyone can have it happen to them
you're only like six degrees of separation
from being homeless if you know something
bad happens so i want to do that
and then the character i just you know
i'm not muslim and i don't really have
any friends almost yeah
That's actually where we're going next,
is your character of Soma.
Am I saying that right, Soma?
Yeah.
She is a homeless, ex-junkie,
Muslim woman who is trying to survive the
hostility of her hometown.
But she's very resilient,
and she's dangerous in a way that people
do not expect her to be.
So what inspired her?
Was it just like you were saying?
you know,
it's always interesting to go for
underdogs, you know,
instead of like having like a soldier or
something like that to have an underdog.
So like a homeless person,
I'm always very interested by that.
So I'm interested by that struggle to,
you know, just,
just she's trying to get out of her
hometown and she's having all these
obstacles stopping her from, you know,
corrupt cops,
street hooligans on the street dressed in
Halloween.
It's Halloween.
And so, yeah.
So, and then,
it's not about a character being Muslim.
She just so happens to be Muslim as
well.
I just think it would be kind of
interesting to – I always find the kind
of whole scarf and the hijab scarf really
interesting.
So I wanted to change and kind of
make the Muslim look look cool.
So she kind of looks like a ninja.
I would have never realized that she was
Muslim unless you had told me in –
When you sent me the email requesting to
come on the show,
I just would have thought it was just
a really cool, like it's cold in October,
you know,
and she's just got a face covering to
keep herself warm.
That's what I would have thought.
Because the way you designed it,
it doesn't look like a hijab, you know,
per se.
So it's very unique in that case.
I just wanted to kind of, you know,
try something new with the association of
a Muslim and put her in that kind
of... So she, you know, in my way,
in my understanding,
she's kind of like a...
silent type Clint Eastwood type very few
words and it was also so a big
inspiration for this comic I read Rick
Remender's A Righteous Thirst for
Vengeance which is so good he's so good
so good and so minimal with dialogue and
it's just panel to panel action and it
it just forced you to look at the
panels more so and i wanted that i
took that i wanted to kind of use
that and like some caption i was like
i'm not putting any captions in it and
i'm and it's gonna be kind of minimalist
dialogue and it's good i'm gonna i need
to find an artist that really kind of
is able to portray the actions I'm doing,
that panel-to-panel kinetic energy.
But then also I found,
because I'm a spoken word artist,
I do a lot of open mics and
things like that,
and I write lots of poetry,
I also kind of am interested in blending
mediums together.
And I thought it was a really good
opportunity to maybe have her voice
be a poet and use my other,
this other talent,
this other interest I have in writing and
put it into the comic.
So, you know, at the same time,
you don't,
you have this window into the character.
So, so she's running around, she's,
she's jumping off walls, things like that.
But then you have these quiet somber
moments where she's just writing in a
journal about her thoughts about,
and you get clues to the backstory and
being as a person.
I thought that would work and sort of
balance out that sort of,
yeah no it was really cool i i
enjoyed that blend that you did within
this comic because again there's not a lot
of words outside of the poetry being
spoken but with you and your artist the
way y'all collaborated on this the action
in the book you really don't need a
lot of words to understand what is going
on in the story so that was executed
brilliantly on the comic so
Big props to both of y'all on that
because it's really cool.
There's like one page, I think,
where it's just poetry and her writing her
poetry.
And I thought that was really cool that
that was just like, you know,
she had a second to catch her breath.
And the one thing she thought to do
was pull out her notebook and write down
her thoughts.
And it progresses as well.
What I really quite like to do is,
as well as the story progressing,
you have her writing this poem.
Yes, yes.
But later on,
she continues trying to write it.
And then during, like, you know,
the dark night of the soul, you know,
the bad moment,
the bit when everything's pushing down on
her in the late second act,
then you've got her just getting mad
and...
crunching up the poem and then finally at
the end you'll have sort of like finishing
the poem and you'll see that i don't
want to ruin it but i'm not doing
it but you know so it progresses with
her mental state and the story as well
i i like that and the way it's
done so this town of morrow or marrow
it feels very much alive was this place
is it based on a real place or
maybe a blend of experiences that you've
had in certain places
Yeah.
So me and my mates growing up were
from a small town in the middle of
England.
And, you know, people born there,
they die there.
Racist, small minded.
You know, me and my mates,
we would just get drunk every weekend and
just mess around and whatever.
And we're always like waiting to leave
there.
So a lot of that kind of that
resentment towards the town is is sort of.
Yeah, that's where that comes from.
I used to get that out a little
bit.
i i've i grew up in a place
similar to that and i drove through many
places like that here in the us so
i know exactly what you're talking about
and i felt a little bit of what
she was going through just from my own
experiences and growing up in places i've
traveled throughout the years so i was
kind of like man there's a marrow
everywhere there's one in every county or
parish or what have you you know
But as you keep reading the comic,
you'll kind of see... And I'll send you,
like... As the issues come out,
I'll send you the issues just so you
can keep up to date.
But, you know, it's also, like,
it's not really the town stopping her.
It's actually herself, potentially.
And it gets heavier into that as the
story progresses.
We see that she's got...
Because I base this on myself quite a
bit.
I used to have a really bad temper,
and I'm sort of dealing with that quite...
differently now,
but a temper towards myself, if anything,
a self-deprecating temper.
So I use that element in Soma's character.
She's just got this fiery,
absolute disdain for the town.
She almost wants to punish it,
if anything.
Oh, yeah.
You do get a sense that she has
some anger toward the town.
So it is...
she did it in more ways like she
didn't really have to say it it was
her actions and her absolutely the way she
did everything so you could definitely
tell um so one of the big things
that stands out in this comic book is
the choreography the parkour run in the
movement the way action flows do you have
a background in that type of stuff or
is this just a storytelling choice for
soma
It's just a storytelling choice.
I've never really done it.
I've just been interested in it.
I used to watch it a lot.
Me and my friends,
we'd put some parkour on,
put some drum and bass on and just
watch it for hours and just chill and
hang out and drink and whatever.
And it's props, to be honest,
to my artist, Mauro De Falco.
It was really important when I started
this project to find an artist that was
going to be able to execute
the action and the movement.
Cause I just, cause you're telling,
you know,
I'm not telling my story with my words
because I'm using minimal dialogue.
It really needed to work.
He nailed it.
He definitely nailed it.
Cause it does look like,
I'm trying to think there was a,
I think there was a,
you're familiar with the misfits, right?
Yeah.
The TV series.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I want to say there's a few episodes
of the misfits where you see one of
the characters doing parkour style run
into the city.
And, uh,
that was a little bit of what I
kind of like.
I just go back to that show a
lot because it's one of my favorite shows
to come out of the UK.
And I thought it deserved more love,
but Hey,
that's just my opinion of a guy looking
in from the outside.
But, um,
It was one of my favorite things about,
you know, that anytime I see,
because you don't see parkour often.
No.
At least not where I live.
It's just not something that we see.
So it was really cool to see it
in a comic book and being executed so
well.
And that's hard to do.
Movement is hard to do in a comic
book.
Yeah.
And to make it look realistic and look
cool.
So shout out to your artists for making
that look cool and making it look
realistic.
Like it was like you,
you were kind of like, you know,
get your heart beating a little bit faster
because you're like, oh man,
she's going to,
she's going to hit this jump or so.
It was definitely one of those cool
things.
I think sort of because, you know,
obviously when you're making something,
making any kind of comic,
you look to references and things like
that.
And I was like, oh, man,
I can't think.
I thought of Mark Miller's Zero Miles Per
Hour, that comic.
But then I couldn't think of anything.
And then someone was like, well,
I was chatting to someone online and they
were like, daredevil, man.
I was like, oh, yeah, of course.
That's like the pencil.
Yeah.
Look a lot of like, you know,
Alex Maliv's drawings for the Brian,
which I, you know,
I love because that's just a shout out
to Mark Miller, man.
You brought him up.
We're big fans here of Mark Miller's work.
I know he's currently off doing some
bigger projects right now.
Hopefully he'll come back to the indie
scene here before long.
Yeah.
I mean, there's this stuff that I find,
I found that him trying to make his
own universe was a bit contrived.
I don't, I didn't particularly like that,
but I do think like he's made some
incredible comics.
Like, you know, wanted is amazing.
Star star.
I can't remember what it's called.
Star something or other.
I think I know which one you're talking
about.
And then I know he had magic water,
which was really amazing.
I mean, even Kick-Ass is phenomenal.
I like the comic more than the film,
to be honest.
You and me both.
Yeah, I'm with you with that one.
And then he recently did Vatican City,
which I think he cut short to go
work on the DC project that he's working
on.
And I was just like, dude,
this had so much potential.
And I don't know if it was him,
Dark Horse, or like, hey,
I need to wrap up what I'm doing
so I can go do this over here.
This requires my hundred percent
attention.
So a really interesting interview between
him and Garth Ennis.
And they're just chatting, you know,
they're just because they kind of grown.
They come up together at the same kind
of time.
Yeah.
Really nice chat between them going
through.
I think Garth Ennis was a few years
before him,
like a lot of years before him.
I think there's like a fifteen or twenty
year age difference there.
Okay.
But, but, but you know what I mean?
Like, but their heights,
they were kind of, no,
you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
You're probably right.
I think he was, I think he was,
he was on the scene way before like
doing hit man and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And Garth Ennis is another one.
Like,
Shout out to him.
He's phenomenal.
Well, he's the reason I make comics.
Yeah, dude.
I won't believe this as well.
What was the one Garth Ennis that was
like, this is my dude?
Publisher.
I'm sorry, Preacher.
Preacher is my favorite thing of all time.
Perfect answer.
Did you watch the TV series?
No, because the thing is, right?
You can't make a TV series and I'm
going to be happy because it's my favorite
thing.
I will be honest with you right now.
It follows the comic book as closely as
TV would allow it to.
Yeah, exactly.
But it was,
you still got the entire story.
And, you know,
for those who don't know in preacher,
God is a dick.
All right.
Yeah.
In the book, he is just a pure,
unadulterated asshole of a human.
Well, not human being, but entity.
And throughout the Preacher series,
different entities have been God.
Because God just says, you know what?
I'm just going to go chill on earth
and do whatever the hell I want.
Leave heaven and hell to do as they
will.
Mm-hmm.
Which is kind of like one of those...
It's not the primary story.
The primary story, of course,
is about Preacher.
But it's just such a good series.
If you can get the Omnibuses or the
Trade Paperbats or what have you,
do yourselves a favor.
Get up to date on Preacher.
It was a phenomenal series by Garth Ennis.
And don't let ass face fool you because
the dude is...
he he does okay for himself despite
everything that's happened to him but it
was also i i went and to a
comic convention thought bubble which is
like the biggest kind of comic convention
i had uh our friend bruno catarina was
there so i see he wrote a really
nice write-up on uh thought bubble so
But yeah,
I was selling this year for the first
time.
I was selling my comics there.
And Garth Ennis was there.
And so I went up to him and
I brought, you know,
I would have loved to have brought all
my Punisher Max comics.
But instead, I couldn't do that.
So, you know,
I brought Punisher Born because I wanted
that sign.
I brought a lot of Preacher comics.
And I come up to him and I
perform a spoken word piece to him about
how much Preacher means to me.
And then I give him some of my
comics.
I say goodbye to him, whatever, and stuff.
And he seemed pretty impressed by my
spoken word.
You got it signed, though, right?
I got it signed.
But then two days later,
he emails me back and says,
I really liked your comics.
They're amazing.
You're a really good writer.
And I was like... It's just amazing.
So, yeah, I got his email.
I would have it printed out in a
frame.
And any time I come on another podcast,
I'd be like...
Garth Dennis said my shit was cool,
and I would just point to it,
be like, Garth Dennis liked my stuff.
Now I've got his email.
Every time I publish something,
I'm just going to send it over to
him, just let him have a read.
It was just really nice.
He was just a really nice guy as
well.
He was really open and chilled.
It's one of those where people always say
don't meet your heroes,
but sometimes you do meet your hero,
and your hero ends up just being a
really cool, legit dude.
because that's the way he always came off
to me.
Anytime I've seen him in interviews and
stuff like that, he's just a dude,
you know, he got lucky and,
but really tall.
Yeah.
He's a really tall dude.
Yeah.
I, you don't, you know,
when you look at someone and sitting down
with, you don't think it,
but I was like, wow, he's,
he's pretty big, tall guy, man.
I was surprised.
I know we're completely off topic right
now, but Garth Dennis is that dude.
To me,
there's very little stuff that he's done
where people can go, I didn't like that.
Did you read it?
I'm like,
it's Garth Dennis we're talking about.
Did you actually read that?
Well, I had a really interesting thing.
So I bought the first boys comic when
I went to university at twenty one.
And then it was with me for seven
years later because I was picking up each
one.
So, yeah.
that,
that to me says comics are such an
interesting thing,
especially if you can pick up singles that
they can be with you through your life
for such a long period in time.
Yeah.
It's just kind of interesting.
Seven years later at finished.
And I was like, wow,
what'd you think about the ending?
We're not going to give it away because
they're about to enter the final season of
the boys.
But what'd you think about the ending?
I really like it.
I think it... I reread The Boys recently.
And when I first read it,
I thought it was amazing, incredible.
And then I reread it and I was
like, eh,
it lulls a little bit in the middle
with the comics.
But I do like...
I like the relationship and the ending
between Huey and Butcher.
I think that's really strong.
I think that's one of the best things
about it.
I don't know what they're going to do
in a TV show because obviously they'll
probably switch it up.
I'm hoping they don't because I love the
ending.
Yeah, exactly.
There's only two people left alive.
Two.
And that's the way it should be.
It's one of those endings to me in
comic book form that
Don't fuck with it.
That one is perfect.
But I heard they already have.
I've heard the same thing,
and I'm hoping that's not the case.
I'm hoping it's one of those where...
feed you a line of yeah we're gonna
actually get the ending from the comic
book yeah because the ending from the
comic book to me is just so good
yeah yeah and going into it when it
come out and the it started and i'm
like i know how this ends i'm like
And I know they changed a lot of
stuff around.
There's characters that were men in the
comic book that are women on the show
and vice versa.
None of that bothered me because the story
was still pretty much there and intact.
The character is the character,
no matter who played the character.
They still match what they were in the
comic book for the most part.
So it didn't really bother me as much.
But.
the ending would probably bother me a lot
more if it doesn't match the comic book.
Yeah.
So,
but let's talk a little bit about
Marcosia.
Yeah.
This was your first published book.
It happened to be Marcosia,
who we're familiar with here because Ice
Grace and Zip has been on the show
before,
and they do his publishing for him on
Zip, which, oh, by the way,
is a black and gray comic book.
There's no color in it.
Beautiful, bright colors on the covers.
But the actual book itself is done in
black and gray scale,
which looks phenomenal because it takes a
phenomenal artist to make black and gray
line work look good.
And his artist for that book does a
phenomenal job.
So we're very familiar with Marcosia here.
So how did that project find its home
with them?
Sure.
The usual thing, you know, I was,
me and Murrow were releasing the comic
monthly and then it got to a certain
point where I'd done about,
got to about episode four, five.
So the first issue,
because basically you can break,
the comic is a four issue miniseries.
I mean,
it's broken up online with vertical
scrolling comics.
Each episode is about five pages.
But collected,
each comic is sort of four issues,
twenty four pages.
Yeah.
And so I sent, you know,
sent stuff out.
I sent it out to all the publishing
companies, Image, this, that, whatever.
I'd sent to Marcosia before.
And this time, you know,
Harry was interested.
He was.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Just sort of.
And he was like,
if you're looking to get any make any
money from this,
this is not going to be.
I was like, dude,
I just want my I want my story
out.
I just want people to read my stuff.
I'm not looking for that.
And they've been good.
They've been good.
I mean,
I've had mixed things from publishers.
I've had a quite rough run with
publishers,
like the most unprofessional publishers
you've ever heard.
I've heard rumors of that.
from many a people and there's some you
know when they send you the rejection
they're like they're very polite and very
nice about it i've heard there's some that
are just out there that are just
flat-out dickheads about it.
Like, Ian, know yourself as shit.
Bye.
I mean,
this is literally us signing a contract,
me working through them,
and then literally them telling me that we
need the comic in two months before,
two months before the deadline.
So I'm working towards that.
And then suddenly, out of the blue,
four months before, they go,
we need the cover now.
I'm like, you didn't tell me that.
Yeah, but we need the cover now.
I did tell you that.
I checked my emails.
they did not tell me that so i
had to just quickly rummage for and get
a cover and by the end of it
i i i had to i just i
just became a petulant child because i was
so angry they were they kept doing making
me jump yeah i just uh we we
we separated i had enough you know i
mean it's just that's horrible man you
can't do that to people yeah
And then another publisher became
bankrupt.
He was a smaller publisher.
So it's been a bit of a rocky
road,
but there's a security there and they're
good.
They have a very nice lineup.
So for anybody interested in seeing what
else they have out there beside grinding
and against the marrow from snake here in
zeal from Mike's grace,
go over and check them out on Instagram.
They do have a very nice lineup.
And I think they have a little bit
of everything over there that could be
if you're interested in comics and want to
read something,
they may have what you're looking for
because they do have a very nice lineup.
It was also the case where as soon
as I got published,
Morrow just sent me a page.
It was going to just be in black
and white.
The whole comic was just going to be
in black and white.
The first page in color.
I kind of looked at it and just
went... This is one of those books,
though,
where
color looks so good on it yeah especially
because the town and the way how gritty
it is you want that grittiness to show
through and you could have missed that if
it was in black and white
And then also his partner,
who's also like a comic book artist.
She was taking interest reading the comic
online quite a bit.
And she just messaged us one time and
said, like,
I'd love to do a cover for you
just because I just want to do a
free cover for you because I'm really
enjoying reading the series.
Is that what we're talking about?
Yeah, that was actually like.
part of the next question so i'll throw
that name out there just to get it
out there now so yeah so yeah and
then she did it and i looked at
it and was just like oh i'm so
i'm gonna have to pay you to do
all the covers to be honest and yeah
i was fine with that to be honest
because you know he's trying to focus on
the interior artwork so it took a little
bit of pressure off yeah and that's that's
uh mario doyle defalco right who's doing
the interiors yeah
And our relationship,
our work relationship has been great.
It's the best one I've ever had with
an artist.
It was interesting how he came about
because originally I had a different
artist and his style was a bit more
stylized.
So it would have been a different comic
book.
It would have been a different just like
different look to the comic.
Well, I paid him for the pages.
And I'd given him a deadline and then
two weeks passed by.
I messaged him, heard nothing back.
And then like two weeks later,
he was like, oh, here you go,
here you go, I've done this.
And I was like, dude,
I don't wish you any negativity,
but I cannot work this way because I
knew this project was going to be an
ongoing project.
Yeah.
and it's also one of those where if
they show who they are up front like
that it makes you less willing and it
makes it also makes it easier just to
to cut it right there on the spot
because you're on a deadline so therefore
you have to put him on the deadline
and those two things have to match up
and if he's just like lapsed a days
ago about his deadlines then it's just not
good business
No, I mean,
when you're doing a webcomic as well,
you've got readers who are waiting for it
on that specific day.
How often does the webtoon drop?
Every month on the seventh.
This month was the first time we were
a little bit late by a couple of
days,
so I did have to apologize to people.
Laura was trying something a bit more
extensive, a lot more detail.
Also, in that episode, more pages.
We had a few more pages this time.
Oh, nice.
So it was worth the wait, you know?
Yeah.
You know,
and I was messing with lettering as well.
So it was just, but, you know,
sent a little message out at the bottom
of the webtoon just saying, sorry,
apologies for this.
But I think it's a pretty good episode
because Soma kicks the shit.
Sorry, I lied to her.
No, no, no.
You can say shit.
I mean,
I've been saying dick for like a couple
episodes.
Soma kicks the shit out of the town,
put it that way.
Her rage bubbles up and it's pretty good.
nice i like it man she she deserves
to get that out there um are there
any moments within the art of morrow or
even the covers of valentina that
surprised you and like like that you
received the page or something i know you
just gave us your reaction to the cover
that valentina done for you but was there
a page that morrow done that where you
got it and you're like holy dude i
didn't expect you to go this hard on
this
That is the best thing in the world.
That's the reason why I make comics.
Because when you give someone a script and
they come back to you with pages,
and it's always the best part of my
day.
I bet for any comic creator,
the best part of the day is when
an artist comes back to you with pages.
And it's better than what you thought it
would be.
Like, oh yeah.
I mean,
there's been multiple occasions when
that's happened.
So this, this new one,
there's a bit when Soma just,
I don't want to ruin it, but like,
yeah,
there's like a hero shot of Soma with
fire behind her.
And I was just, I was like,
I was trying to show her like,
I was trying to show him some reference
pictures of the crow with the fire behind.
And he totally kind of did it.
He totally made it his own thing.
Yeah.
I always enjoy when artists do that.
Anytime I have a lot of writers on
here, I always open the door.
It's for creatives, for comic books.
Whether you're a writer, an artist,
lettering, colors,
we want you to come on the show
and tell us about your work and show
us your work and that kind of stuff.
So
it's one of those where I've talked to
Sabe Francisco Nilo is also very close to
me.
And, um, he,
he works on the bit of literium series
and it's always fun talking to them and
how much they appreciate when the writer
just says, Hey,
this is what I'm looking for.
Do you, you know,
especially for like Francisco, who's, um,
He's working with Nick to take the book,
Videlirium, and make it into a comic book.
So they're breaking it out like chapters
by chapters and turning it into a comic
book.
So he's had a lot of character to
design and that kind of stuff.
So it's been really cool seeing his work
in that format and how much creative
freedom that when writers give an artist
creative freedom to make something their
own,
you're going to get better products at the
end of the day.
And every single one of them always
appreciate that about writers when they
go, hey,
this is kind of what I'm looking for.
Here you go.
Make it yours from the art perspective.
so i mean at the top of my
scripts always i put a little um
disclosure
obviously like if you feel,
if at any point when reading the script,
you feel that you can do something better
and make the panels flow better,
make the story work better, then do it.
Tell me about it, do it,
try it out, whatever.
All that matters to me, ignore ego,
all that matters to me is telling the
story the best way possible.
Because, you know, you just have to.
It's putting your trust in the artist to
do what is best for the product that
you're working on.
And I know some,
like for Shockhead at Peter,
the writing team over there,
they literally made a Bible for Sabe.
It was literally everything they're
looking for for the book.
Like, hey,
we want to see the sun from this
direction, hitting the character this way.
And Sabe is one of those artists where
just give him the details and he makes
it work.
Or if it doesn't work after he's done
it, he goes back and says, hey,
this doesn't work.
How about this?
I think this looks better than what you
had in there.
And they were like, dude, yeah, no,
you were right on that one.
Let's go with that.
So they give him creative freedom,
but they also gave him like this nice,
beautiful book of like, hey,
here's here's what we're doing, you know.
which is really cool.
I think the same thing happened with Scott
Snyder when he was working with Greg
Capullo.
Greg was just like, no,
you need to calm down and relax a
little bit more.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Scott Snyder is a great teacher and he's
a really good writer.
Absolute Batman, man.
It's probably the number one comic book in
the country right now.
But he had to alter his way,
his workflow,
because that's just the way Greg needs a
little bit more freedom.
Dude, I love Capullo, and I'll show you.
That is the Batman spawn from Capullo and
Matt Farland.
That's the vinyl poster that all the comic
shops got.
Oh, wow.
I was able to get my hands on
that because I love Capullo.
Well, I love McFarlane as well, obviously,
but Capullo's Batman is probably my
favorite Batman.
Especially because it gave us like Devil
Dog or War Dog,
whatever the first Batman vs.
Spawn was where he split Spawn down the
middle with the Batarang.
And then McFarlane liked that look so much
that he just stitched Spawn's face up and
that was in the comic book for like
years.
I remember, like,
the Batarang in Spawn's face.
I remember reading that as a kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's cool.
And that's the second run of Batman Spawn,
which was really phenomenal.
But, yeah, I'm a huge fan of Capullo.
And if you're not a fan of Capullo,
I don't know what y'all are doing out
there.
He does phenomenal, phenomenal work.
Yeah.
So grinding against the marrow isn't
afraid to talk about homelessness,
addiction, prejudice, and survival.
What do you help readers walk away from
after getting to know SOMA?
I hope they're having,
they have a fun journey with it.
I mean, I hope that, you know,
I hope it's a fun journey.
It's an entertaining,
entertaining journey.
I hope, you know,
it takes you places you didn't think the
story was going to go.
I think, you know,
there's an escalation value.
I was very much when I was writing
it, thinking about the escalation value,
she gets deeper into the darker seedy side
of the city as it goes on.
And then also, you know,
getting something different out of comics,
you know,
having this poetry element to it,
just seeing things that are different and
seeing that actually the medium can also
work with all these other things.
You know,
I like being surprised by comics.
I'm currently reading like Michael
Stravinsky's bullet.
It's called bullet.
I actually love Michael Stravinsky as
well.
I just think he's so, um,
what's it called?
Um, bullet points.
It's like a world,
even though it's not because of,
it's like an elseworld thing on like
Marvel where the,
where like the person who, um,
created the serum for captain Rogers,
Steve Rogers.
So Superman, uh,
captain America doesn't exist.
So the timeline changes.
Yeah.
You know,
it's just when you're reading something
and you're just like, oh, this is good.
So if you want a good read,
Aubrey Sitterson's Free Planet.
Okay.
Yeah.
The first trade paperback just came out
for it.
I've been collecting the floppy.
So I'm just going to roll with the
floppies until they do a big Omnibus or
something.
But that book is phenomenal.
Like,
especially given everything going on in
the world currently from all viewpoints,
it fits like the mold perfectly.
And it's like,
you're reading this book and you're like,
dude, is he?
this is very familiar like this sounds
familiar and then you you flip on the
news and you're like fuck like there it
is that's why it's so familiar because
it's something actually happening right
now and you're like what the hell but
it's a phenomenal book aubrey sitterson is
absolutely nailing free planning right now
if you're not reading that everybody
Read Free Planet by Aubrey Sitterson.
The trade paperback is out.
You will not be disappointed in that book.
Sorry about that, Snake.
Now continue.
No, it's great.
It's actually great to hear because it's
on my list of things to get it
next when it was kind of coming out
because I saw it.
I thought this looks pretty good.
It was like being its image and stuff.
And I love image and stuff.
So I was like it was on my
list,
but it's great to hear a recommendation.
It was so good.
I think they're on issue seven right now.
And it has just been one of those
books where I'm excited when I go to
the comic book shop and it's the new
releases there for it.
And there's not a whole lot of books
I could say that about, you know,
but well, there is, but there isn't.
No, this is this week's polls.
Yeah.
Well, I Hate Fairylands,
another one from Scotty Young.
Yeah.
Just a fun story.
It doesn't take itself serious.
It's just really, really fun.
There's Free Planet right there.
It came out this week,
and it was issue seven.
And then the absolute Batman,
the one-shot Joker come out.
There was something else in here that kind
of stood out.
That's why I'm looking.
I'm sorry.
No, it's cool.
um oh ani press ec comments with their
shiver suspense stories if you like
anthologies phenomenal stuff geiger
anything from ghost machine i don't know
if that's on your list yet okay ah
that's it crownsville rodney barnes is
based on a real hospital and the horror
stories that came from that hospital
That's really cool.
Yeah.
Rodney Barnes, for those not familiar,
he's done Star Wars.
He's done some Marvel.
But his stuff with horror,
some of the best horror comic books you'll
read.
Like it's true events.
At least Crownsville is based on true
events and phenomenal stuff.
What's that called again?
I'm going to have a look myself, actually.
It's called Crownsville by Rodney Barnes.
Cool.
i think it's on bad idea is the
publisher on that one let me check i
don't want to i don't want to give
you bad gouge uh ordained that just come
out i read this already this met all
the hype by the way i think it's
so you know what i'm trying to do
with a lot of my comics honey press
did it
So, you know,
what I'm trying to read from writers and
what I try and do is I want
to read something that's fun and
enjoyable,
but also has meaning and some kind of
emotional connection to a reader.
You know, there's a couple of readers,
writers that I read now,
and sometimes the comics are a little,
I'm not going to mention things,
but sometimes it's a bit too cerebral and
there's just nothing involved.
I love how Garth Ennis does that balance
of it's both fun, enjoyable,
lots of violence, lots of blah, blah,
blah.
Also, it's got meaning to it.
It's not just violence to have violence.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, outside of Preacher,
Preacher was kind of like an exception to
the rule.
There was some violence in there that was
just... Especially in the earlier,
like the first five or six books from
the series, it was just like...
violence just to have violence but it was
character building for the characters who
were committing the violent acts so i
guess there was some meaning there but
again it was just violence to have
violence to build a character i mean so
i always go back to like um sin
city it's really violent but it's so well
told and it yeah kind of dropped into
this world and it's a violent horrible
stylized world and it just works and it's
you know before frank miller went nuts and
like he did do that yeah
But, you know, like, so for me,
you know, as a, as a, as a,
as a, as a, as a, as a,
as a, as a, as a,
one scene in the movie if i'm not
mistaken like it was like a a fifteen
minute slot that you could technically cut
out of the movie and the movie would
still work yeah yeah but tarantino did it
for free for robert rodriguez yeah and i
think he's also a big fan of uh
frank as well so that's kind of cool
that they were like hey quentin we'll let
you have like fifteen minutes of our movie
do whatever you want as long as it's
based on this so it's really cool
so what are some of your big influence
when you're getting the creative engines
going like what's what do you feel that
creative machine with like music i know
you do poetry and you do uh that
kind of stuff you do stand up uh
poetry and that kind of stuff let's go
what do you got what's the big influence
to get that creative juice flowing
You know, I mean,
I'm an open – I'm an empty vessel,
you know, like a jarhead.
You know, films, books.
I'm always reading comics as well,
so comics art as well, you know,
because it is the medium you're making,
so it is good to – but then
plays as well.
So I don't discriminate.
I like every medium for what it does
and what it gives you.
And, you know, they're all stories,
so it's interesting.
And then, you know,
when you come up with an idea and
stuff,
it's good to kind of dig deep and
kind of see –
what works,
what else works in that same vein.
If you've got a scene that feels similar
to a scene in a film,
watch that film and just see how it
works, why it's good,
why it resonated with you and why you're
thinking about it now.
Um, yeah, I mean, you know,
I make a lot on mood boards and
yeah, music, music.
I mean, I can't, I can't, um,
play instruments and save my life,
but I've always got headphones on,
you know?
Yeah.
That when I'm, um,
because I'm working on a secret project
right now.
So anytime I'm writing in my notebook,
I have music in the background,
just writing stuff out.
Just like an idea pops in,
got to write it down.
Idea pops in at work.
I keep an email to myself open throughout
the day.
That way when the idea hits,
I just type it up into this email.
And then at the end of the day,
I send that email to myself and then
I put it on my document.
You know,
this is a little trick that I do
at work as well because we all got
day jobs in it.
But I do the exact same thing.
It's one of the best things you can
do to yourself because you don't want to
lose it.
no absolutely not yeah so it email it
to yourself though the way it's there even
if you forget to annotate it later and
like move it over to your your document
that you're working on or to your uh
your board that you're working on because
i've done that before and i was like
like sitting here like typing stuff out
and just putting the idea down and i'm
like i'm missing something hop over to my
email like there it is that's what i'm
missing and pop it over
But yeah,
that's the best way to do it for
any creative out there.
Keep an email.
Like if you're at your nine to five
and you're into podcasting it from home or
your artist who has,
or a writer who has a day job,
keep an email open to yourself.
And then if something hits you during the
day, jot it out real quick.
At the end of the day,
just hit send.
Make sure you hit send at the end
of the day.
You don't want your computer restarting
randomly in the middle of the night and
lose everything.
I've had that happen more than once.
But I, as well,
cause you know what you're saying about
music as well.
I also think it's a cheat code.
You know, it get,
if you have the right music and obviously
it's going to put you in a certain
mood.
And so, you know,
you can just get in there quicker when
you've got a bit of music playing in
the background, the right piece, you know?
Oh, definitely.
And I've been listening to songs before
where I,
when I was working on project and I
was like, we were going there real quick.
I actually kind of like that.
I'm like, that was good.
Cool.
Got it.
So,
but what's next for Soma and for yourself?
So we're releasing the second issue of the
comic on December eighteenth.
Oh, nice.
Just in time for Christmas, man.
I like it.
Yeah.
It's going to be like one seventy nine.
So why not?
Why not?
Yeah.
Is that the digital version or is that
the paperback?
Yeah, it's just the digital.
So with the single issues,
they're only being released on DriveThru
Comics and Comicology or Amazon,
whatever you want to say.
But then, as I said,
once we've finished all the issues and
released all the issues digitally and
released the episodes all on vertical
scrolling comic platforms,
around about June time,
we'll release a graphic novel of the whole
colour thing in print.
Fulls, hundred and twenty pages,
however many...
That's cool.
I know there's Lords of the Cosmos,
John Linitz.
Is it John Linitz?
I want to say it's John Linitz.
Give me just a second.
I don't want to... Jason Linitz.
I had a John on just before him.
But it's Lords of the Cosmos.
that's their plan as well once the whole
series is done they're going to split it
into like basically two like omnibuses i
think is what he said but i always
think that's really cool is and even image
is doing it now and dark horse and
a bunch of others like once the run
finishes or if like once five or six
comic books are done they take all those
comic books and roll them up into a
trade paperback so i always enjoy that
because it's
That's what I've been doing with Geiger.
I get the singles and I read the
singles,
but once they release a hardback or a
trade paperback, I like to have that.
That way I can just grab the whole
thing and read an entire arc of a
story.
Yeah,
because you're sort of drip fed and it's
kind of nice to get the monthly,
but it's really nice to experience the
whole story together.
It really is.
And it gives a whole nother vibe to
the story because I can guarantee you
there's something you missed or something
that didn't make sense at some point in
one of those floppy issues that when you
go back and you read the trade paperback
or you read the omnibus,
that's when like the two plus two equals
five for you.
So, which is why I feel like,
you know, the comic medium is so similar,
actually not to films,
but actually similar to TV in that sense,
because it is, you know,
so the same thing happens, you know,
when you do, when you binge a show,
I remember re-binging Breaking Bad and it
was so much better watching it all
together.
I did the same thing.
Yeah.
I tried so hard to do that for
The Walking Dead.
Okay.
But once Carl was killed off the show,
because my favorite run,
my favorite arc of The Walking Dead and
comic book is old man Carl.
It's Carl as the old man telling his
grandchildren about The Walking Dead.
Yeah.
And that's how the TV series started,
essentially, is this old man Carl arc.
And then when they killed him, to me,
this is the chairman's opinion,
they killed The Walking Dead when they
killed Carl.
Because the story was literally Carl
telling his grandchildren about the events
of The Walking Dead.
Yeah, this is what I kept telling people.
So I love The Walking Dead series,
the comic series.
It took me so long to finish reading
it because it broke my heart.
There's so many arcs.
When Laurie gets killed, I was like,
I'm out.
I was like,
I put it down for like a year.
And then I went back when I was
in Australia and read it.
And yeah, I keep telling people,
I don't understand how they could have
done that because kill Carl,
because it's his story in the comic.
It's not Rick's.
It's actually his because he's the final
character telling his kids the story who,
you know?
Yeah.
So I agree.
It's wild.
And it was like, once he was gone,
To me, it was gone.
I'm like, I won't make this up.
I mean, I love Daryl.
Daryl is a phenomenal character on the
show.
Yeah, because he's not even in the comic,
is he?
No, he was made for the show,
I believe.
Yeah, because I don't remember him,
you know?
Yeah.
And it's one of those where I'm like,
and one of my favorite lines he says
is,
everybody hates rednecks until you need a
redneck.
But that's neither here nor there.
But yeah, old man Carl.
best thing the walking dead had going and
then the only thing they could have done
better during that is if he would have
been narrating the story which would have
been i think dope as hell because you
get narrations from old man carl in the
comic book so but neither here nor there
um
So... Oh, sorry,
I'll finish off the thing.
No, go ahead.
At the minute as well,
what I'm doing as well is I'm writing...
Well, I've written, actually.
So this is like...
I've had this story for like ten years.
So I've just...
gone back to it occasionally every so
often and cleaned it back up.
And it's just a,
just a two pager or it's,
it might be a full,
it might be a elongated one shot.
It's about, it's about, it's about,
it's about, it's about, it's about,
it's about,
hp lovecraft demons overhead and it's
about fairy tales and knights yeah um and
i've got a really good artist that i'm
enjoying and he's doing pages at the
minute so that's going to be the next
thing i'm going to release okay cool but
i think that's going to be it's more
graphic novel light level once you get
past you know the pages you know i
think we get into graphic novel territory
and that's cool i know um uh what's
his name i think it's
I think his name is – what is
his name?
That's his book.
It's just – I just – Reading pile.
Well, kind of.
I got a reading box actually.
Okay.
bobby campbell he he's turning tells of
the illuminatus into it's a trilogy book
but he's making it into a comic book
it's very fun very quirky but he's also
working on a graphic novel right now so
i know like he's taking a break from
tells of the illuminatus because he was
already working on a graphic novel that he
wants to finish so graphic novels are
big and i know he's working on one
right now and he'll be back on the
show eventually once that is ready to go
but um no sorry that was you mentioned
a graphic novel and that stuff popped into
my head yeah i just i'm someone working
um i work for a private healthcare company
at the minute so i'm earning quite a
bit of good money at the minute so
i was just like
I might as well pick up this extra
comic and start making that as well since
I can afford it at the minute.
And I've been off this project for ages.
So, you know, it just makes me happy.
Making comics makes me happy.
It's great.
And that's the big thing right there is
doing what makes you happy.
And this kind of stuff right here is
getting to talk to writers and artists and
bring in their work to people who may
not ever get to see their work,
especially people like you,
because you're in the UK.
Yeah.
So bringing you over to the U S
audience and introducing you to this,
this side of the pond, so to speak,
it's one of my favorite things to do,
like Sabe being from Italy and an artist
and be bringing his stuff and being like,
Hey,
here's this wonderful artist from Italy.
Who's
work is just like absolutely stunning you
know his character work the way he he
brings details to towns and just little
things like that he does so well it's
one of my favorite parts about getting to
do this is introducing you know people to
new artists new writers who they will
probably would have never seen or heard of
so cool but
You got any more conventions this year?
Or was Thought Bubble the last one for
you for the year?
Last one, really, yeah.
But next year,
I'm going to plan to – I went
to Lakes Festival,
which is like an art festival,
but it's – I mean,
Sean Phillips was there.
Yeah.
um but no no no now next year
but i'm probably going to try and go
to like three next year i'm going to
try and you know like even comic-con maybe
which is you know it's not really a
comic comic-con yeah i know the same way
in the us man yeah they've gone to
like anime and like knickknacks and yeah
it's not about comics anymore that's for
sure
But I was really – Thought Bubble I
thought was really cool.
And seeing the stuff that Bruno was
posting I thought was really cool.
You should totally go, man.
Yeah, I think you'd love it.
That's a trip across the pond.
I mean, I would love to.
I would love to.
But, yeah,
that's like eight hours on an airplane.
But, hey,
the guy on the stall next to me,
we became friends and stuff, hanging out.
He was a cool dude.
He was from your lot.
He was an American.
And he'd come all the way across to,
you know, sell his comic.
He had a graphic.
And, yeah, so it is possible.
You know,
I didn't realize Thought Bubble was such a
big event over there for artists and
writers in the comic world.
But there was huge celebrities and stuff
like that there.
I was very impressed with that.
I don't know if that's the biggest one
y'all do in the UK.
It basically is, yeah.
Okay.
It's basically... But it was very,
very impressive.
It was like...
The only thing I could think of is
New York Comic Con or San Diego Comic
Con or something like that.
That was the level it looked to me.
So... I think, though,
I think San Diego is just...
You can't beat that.
Do you know what I mean?
That's what all of us UK people are
like dreaming of.
We're like, Oh,
I'm going to get up at some point.
But that, that one is just like,
it's like absurd.
It's like four days now and it costs
you, you know, a mortgage payment to go.
Have you been?
no no because it costs a mortgage payment
to go that's on the other side of
the country so yeah no i mean i
would love to one day yeah but right
now is not that day maybe you know
in three or four years i will hopefully
be able to go but right now that
i can find better ways to spend that
money yeah fair enough cool
So let's look ahead and watch this.
I know you got the graphic novel coming
or poetry or maybe something a little
unexpected from you.
You know,
I'm always sort of trying to spit some
rhymes at open mics around Manchester.
I live in Manchester, so I do that.
But I have been working quite heavily on
comics.
I've got another comic I'm sort of writing
at the minute,
and I've got my artist prepped,
and I know,
and he's going to cost me a fortune,
but his work looks so good.
And it's kind of an interesting tale about
addiction, but black magic, and, yeah,
so that should be great.
So I've got all these things queued up.
I mean, the thing is, right,
me as a creator,
I don't know about other artists,
but you know, I mean,
lettering and publishing comics online.
It's good.
It's fun.
It's nice.
Yeah.
But I'm a writer.
I just want to be in a room
writing.
And the more you get into it,
the more you're having to do lots of
administration or the stuff you're having
to, you know,
post yourself on social media.
So when you can get just some time
to write, it's amazing.
You know, it's a godsend, you know?
Oh yeah.
Have you ever thought about doing like,
um,
like bunching your poetry into like,
into like a, not necessarily a book,
but like a, a web series with art.
Like taking your,
like your poetry and sending it to an
artist and be like, hey,
can you put art with this?
And then put in a like webtoons or
something like that.
To me, that would be kind of cool.
I was just thinking about that for some
reason.
That would be cool.
I know.
So my friend did something similar.
He was a photographer and he got writers
to write a story set behind his
photography.
Oh, that's really cool, too.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
maybe I might maybe I'll do that.
That's actually a really good idea.
It's just, you know,
not enough time in the day, unfortunately.
Yeah.
And we got to get at least eight
hours of sleep.
I know you're just a few years younger
than me, but yeah,
that eight hours of sleep means a lot.
So people who can just sleep on no
sleep, just get on with their day,
no sleep.
I'm like, I'm useless otherwise.
Yeah, dude,
I just had two cups of coffee and
I'm still wanting to go back to bed.
So for anybody now just hearing about
grinding against the marrow for the first
time and you have to sell them the
book,
give us your your sales pitch for grinding
against the marrow.
It's Halloween.
All the ghouls are out.
All the ghouls and goblins,
the horrible little kids who are causing
chaos.
And they're lighting homeless people on
fire.
And there's also Soma stuck on the street.
And she wants to escape this town.
But, however...
She can't allow another person to be lit
on fire, one of her homeless brethren.
So she steps in and read the comics,
see what happens from that.
All the pitfalls, all the obstacles.
Yeah.
But she has one skill that helps her
through this.
She's really good at parkour and running
and free running.
So that's the comic.
I like it, dude,
before I let you go tell everybody where
they can find snake and where they can
find your work.
yeah so i'm on instagram snake eight seven
smw um also facebook on my normal name
which is scott matthew watson um and yeah
you can find the work on uh on
amazon on comicology or and also um uh
drive through comics but then i've also
got work on uh webtoons um uh global
comics and tapas as well
Love to hear it, dude.
So what's coming up next for the USD?
And I will be back here Monday again.
That will go up later today or tomorrow
to announce who is going to be on
the podcast.
But stories like this don't come from
comfort.
They come from the fractures,
and sometimes it takes a creator like
Snake to show us there's beauty inside the
break.
Snake, welcome to the Council of Nerds,
and you, sir,
and Grindin' Against the Marrow are USDN
approved.
This has been the USDN Podcast,
and the Council of Nerds is adjourned.