1 00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:03,139 I had this feeling of peace come over me when 2 00:00:03,139 --> 00:00:05,300 I understood that I was going to die and there was 3 00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:07,579 nothing I could do about it. 4 00:00:08,250 --> 00:00:09,540 That was it. 5 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:16,420 And when I accepted that, this peace settled on me and 6 00:00:16,420 --> 00:00:21,040 I started thinking about my parents and my missing sister 7 00:00:21,095 --> 00:00:22,595 and how I was gonna die. 8 00:00:26,275 --> 00:00:29,335 My guest today is Peter Panagore, a bestselling 9 00:00:29,335 --> 00:00:32,065 author and past keynote speaker at the Annual 10 00:00:32,185 --> 00:00:35,035 International Association for Near-Death Studies. 11 00:00:35,395 --> 00:00:38,665 Peter's had two near-death experiences in his lifetime, 12 00:00:38,965 --> 00:00:41,665 and he'll be sharing with us the details of those today. 13 00:00:42,115 --> 00:00:44,065 Peter, welcome and thank you so much for 14 00:00:44,065 --> 00:00:44,755 coming on the show. 15 00:00:45,415 --> 00:00:47,365 Thank you Rod down there in Australia. 16 00:00:47,365 --> 00:00:49,195 I'm way up in the Northern Hemisphere here. 17 00:00:49,405 --> 00:00:49,825 It's great. 18 00:00:50,275 --> 00:00:52,690 Yeah, we were saying before that anytime I have a guest 19 00:00:52,695 --> 00:00:54,600 on from the States, it means that the future is 20 00:00:54,605 --> 00:00:57,810 definitely coming for you because it's Tuesday morning, 21 00:00:58,010 --> 00:01:01,050 8:30, and it's, what is it, 4 30, 5 30 in the afternoon 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,560 it's 6, 6 30 on Monday, six 30 in the evening. 23 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:05,880 It's pretty amazing, isn't it? 24 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:06,600 We can do this. 25 00:01:06,970 --> 00:01:07,540 It's crazy. 26 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,750 My first question is, If you wouldn't mind giving us 27 00:01:10,750 --> 00:01:13,020 a little bit of background about your life up to the 28 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:15,690 day of your first NDE, and then we can go from there. 29 00:01:16,335 --> 00:01:16,845 Sure. 30 00:01:16,845 --> 00:01:20,390 So I was raised in eastern the United States, in the 31 00:01:20,395 --> 00:01:23,310 northeast corner outside a city called Boston. 32 00:01:24,030 --> 00:01:26,910 I was raised Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic. 33 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,640 And my, my mom and my dad and I learned very early 34 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,530 that the churches hated each other and had for a 35 00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:35,630 thousand years, and both claimed to hold the truth. 36 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:37,310 And so that was a little confusing. 37 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,080 I went to Catholic school. 38 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:40,100 I was a boy scout. 39 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:41,330 I was in the ski patrol. 40 00:01:41,450 --> 00:01:43,540 I was a bit of a troublemaker. 41 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:50,545 A D H D and dyslexic, but I was dedicated to my 42 00:01:50,545 --> 00:01:53,665 interior life by the time I finished high school. 43 00:01:54,145 --> 00:01:56,575 Because when I was a little tiny kid, I had 44 00:01:56,665 --> 00:01:59,035 two mystical experiences. 45 00:01:59,035 --> 00:02:01,435 One when I was five and one when I was six that 46 00:02:01,525 --> 00:02:02,725 set me in a different path. 47 00:02:03,145 --> 00:02:05,725 And then when I was in high school, I, and I wanna say 48 00:02:05,725 --> 00:02:08,395 accidentally, but it's only accidentally took a triple 49 00:02:08,395 --> 00:02:13,525 hit of L s D and had a an end of duality experience. 50 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:15,845 This is all before my near-death experience. 51 00:02:15,850 --> 00:02:19,365 And so that last thing that happened to me, It was in my 52 00:02:19,365 --> 00:02:20,565 senior year of high school. 53 00:02:21,075 --> 00:02:23,745 And it just so happened that within a couple of 54 00:02:23,745 --> 00:02:26,805 I transformed me and just within a couple of months of 55 00:02:26,805 --> 00:02:29,145 that, my religion teacher, cuz I went to Catholic high 56 00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:32,895 school taught centering prayer at the time was called 57 00:02:32,895 --> 00:02:35,685 contemplative meditation, has a theravive Buddhist root 58 00:02:35,690 --> 00:02:37,984 to it and a contemplative Catholic root to it. 59 00:02:37,984 --> 00:02:40,814 There's a monastery nearby the school that developed 60 00:02:40,814 --> 00:02:45,854 this as a response to the 1960s and seventies young 61 00:02:45,854 --> 00:02:49,224 people discovering the east and studying meditation. 62 00:02:49,224 --> 00:02:50,634 And so they dove into their own roots. 63 00:02:50,634 --> 00:02:53,154 And so my senior high school, after I had this end of 64 00:02:53,154 --> 00:02:57,114 duality experience, I was taught meditation and I dove 65 00:02:57,114 --> 00:03:00,594 into it and I stayed with, I still meditate, but it's 66 00:03:00,714 --> 00:03:04,374 the meditation that saved me psychologically after my 67 00:03:04,464 --> 00:03:06,314 NDE just a few years later. 68 00:03:07,314 --> 00:03:07,734 Wow. 69 00:03:07,824 --> 00:03:10,104 Okay, I just have a question about the triple 70 00:03:10,104 --> 00:03:10,945 hit with the l s d. 71 00:03:10,945 --> 00:03:12,695 Were you alone or was there somebody else 72 00:03:12,695 --> 00:03:13,614 there when that occurred? 73 00:03:14,169 --> 00:03:17,909 No, I was it was something like after second 74 00:03:17,909 --> 00:03:19,349 period at the school 75 00:03:19,679 --> 00:03:24,230 and I was trying to I was trying to hurt myself and 76 00:03:24,230 --> 00:03:26,505 I didn't realize that I took this I knew I took 77 00:03:26,505 --> 00:03:28,214 three hits, but I had no, it was my first time. 78 00:03:28,214 --> 00:03:29,594 I had no idea what I was getting into. 79 00:03:29,644 --> 00:03:31,474 And I had to leave the school for the day. 80 00:03:31,474 --> 00:03:33,465 I convinced one of the brothers. 81 00:03:33,475 --> 00:03:34,165 It was a Catholic school. 82 00:03:34,165 --> 00:03:35,335 I convinced one of the brothers that I was 83 00:03:35,335 --> 00:03:37,614 really sick, cuz I'd actually been really sick. 84 00:03:37,614 --> 00:03:39,925 I'd been to a clinic the week before with something 85 00:03:39,925 --> 00:03:43,494 unrelated that I used as an excuse and I got the brother 86 00:03:43,494 --> 00:03:46,795 to convince the headmaster to let me and a buddy of 87 00:03:46,795 --> 00:03:50,004 mine go for the day because I needed to, because the 88 00:03:50,004 --> 00:03:52,435 school was a day school and it was like three towns away 89 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,014 from where I was and I was in no condition to drive. 90 00:03:55,405 --> 00:03:58,864 So we got out of there pretty quickly, and I tripped pretty 91 00:03:58,864 --> 00:03:59,974 heavily during the day. 92 00:03:59,974 --> 00:04:01,254 And then I had to work that night. 93 00:04:01,254 --> 00:04:03,264 I was on the ski patrol at the local hill. 94 00:04:03,264 --> 00:04:03,984 It was wintertime. 95 00:04:04,984 --> 00:04:08,644 And so I had to show up and be on duty. 96 00:04:08,824 --> 00:04:12,574 And I was skiing with rainbows shooting out of me. 97 00:04:12,884 --> 00:04:15,809 And and it turns out that they were chakras stacked. 98 00:04:15,809 --> 00:04:18,309 I didn't know it at the time, but I had this, the chakras 99 00:04:18,309 --> 00:04:20,349 and the colors, they're all like coming out behind me and 100 00:04:20,349 --> 00:04:21,579 de some skiing down the slope. 101 00:04:22,569 --> 00:04:25,504 And I went off on a side trail and it was evening 102 00:04:25,504 --> 00:04:26,734 cuz it was under the lights. 103 00:04:26,794 --> 00:04:29,219 And so I was off on a side trail by myself freaking out. 104 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:35,969 And suddenly the hill became a rolling wave. 105 00:04:35,999 --> 00:04:38,699 The whole hill turned into wave forms and all the 106 00:04:38,704 --> 00:04:40,019 trees started swaying. 107 00:04:40,259 --> 00:04:43,469 And every single thing that there was, the trees, the 108 00:04:43,469 --> 00:04:46,879 snow there was a stonewall that was exposed the sky, 109 00:04:47,119 --> 00:04:48,919 everything was shouting. 110 00:04:48,919 --> 00:04:48,979 I. 111 00:04:50,030 --> 00:04:50,930 I am. 112 00:04:50,930 --> 00:04:51,710 I exist. 113 00:04:51,740 --> 00:04:54,380 But it wasn't, it was like a chorus of a thousand 114 00:04:54,380 --> 00:04:56,930 voices coming from the cells of the tree. 115 00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:58,640 Coming from my own cells. 116 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,030 I was the same as everything else. 117 00:05:02,090 --> 00:05:05,570 And it was all this divine voice that had 118 00:05:05,575 --> 00:05:09,050 no sound saying, I am, in this huge roar. 119 00:05:09,530 --> 00:05:13,460 And I understood myself to be the same as everything else. 120 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,930 And that was it was mind blowing. 121 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:16,890 It totally changed me. 122 00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:19,775 My nickname at school, at my Catholic school 123 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:23,190 became Peace Panagore, like that the next day. 124 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:24,030 I'm like, peace man. 125 00:05:24,270 --> 00:05:25,140 Hey, peace. 126 00:05:25,530 --> 00:05:27,650 And and it was not a compliment. 127 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,195 So I wanna ask you about the mystical experiences 128 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:32,100 when you were young, but I think before I do that I 129 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,110 know people wanna hear about your near death experience. 130 00:05:34,110 --> 00:05:36,000 So could we fast forward to the, when 131 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:36,930 the first one occurred? 132 00:05:36,968 --> 00:05:39,158 I was, I wa I went off to what'd I do? 133 00:05:39,518 --> 00:05:42,128 I went off to university and then I wanted ex I 134 00:05:42,128 --> 00:05:45,398 went on exchange to another university my junior year. 135 00:05:45,403 --> 00:05:48,368 I was at a state school and I went to another state 136 00:05:48,368 --> 00:05:50,718 school in the United States, in Western United States, 137 00:05:50,738 --> 00:05:54,068 and a place called Montana, which is the Rocky Mountains. 138 00:05:54,128 --> 00:05:56,468 And I went there to ski on the ski patrol and to go 139 00:05:56,473 --> 00:05:59,143 backpacking and Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, go to school too. 140 00:05:59,683 --> 00:06:03,343 And so come spring break, I didn't want to go back home 141 00:06:03,373 --> 00:06:08,443 to Boston because my family situation was difficult. 142 00:06:08,443 --> 00:06:11,893 My sister had run away when I was 14 and made things 143 00:06:11,893 --> 00:06:13,483 very painful at home. 144 00:06:13,483 --> 00:06:16,013 So I was staying away from there as much as I could. 145 00:06:16,823 --> 00:06:20,273 Long story short, this is a high adventure winter 146 00:06:20,333 --> 00:06:23,228 expedition, and I need to let people know that this was not 147 00:06:23,228 --> 00:06:25,388 my first winter expedition. 148 00:06:25,388 --> 00:06:30,038 The year before I had hiked For 91 miles in March along 149 00:06:30,038 --> 00:06:32,588 the Appalachian Trail in western Massachusetts, 150 00:06:32,588 --> 00:06:33,788 which is the state I'm from. 151 00:06:34,208 --> 00:06:37,118 And I had grown up as a boy scout going winter 152 00:06:37,118 --> 00:06:37,988 camping my whole life. 153 00:06:37,988 --> 00:06:40,328 And so I had been a backpacker and a camper since I was 154 00:06:40,328 --> 00:06:43,233 a toddler not quite that young, but pretty young. 155 00:06:43,233 --> 00:06:45,318 We started in my family out into the woods hiking. 156 00:06:45,528 --> 00:06:50,028 And so when spring break came around in 1980, 157 00:06:50,028 --> 00:06:51,348 I was 21 years old. 158 00:06:51,708 --> 00:06:54,678 I didn't wanna go back to Boston and I was already 159 00:06:54,678 --> 00:06:57,408 deep into the high adventure of living out in Montana 160 00:06:57,678 --> 00:06:58,338 and in the mountains. 161 00:06:58,338 --> 00:07:03,708 So I, I found a partner in the outing club to go on a 10 162 00:07:03,708 --> 00:07:07,728 day ice climbing, snow caving back country skiing trip. 163 00:07:07,878 --> 00:07:08,748 And it was his trip. 164 00:07:09,168 --> 00:07:10,518 I was looking for something to do. 165 00:07:10,578 --> 00:07:11,388 It was his trip. 166 00:07:11,393 --> 00:07:13,878 He had this idea, he had just completed his 167 00:07:14,268 --> 00:07:17,538 course as to get certified as a lead ice climber. 168 00:07:17,838 --> 00:07:20,868 I'd been cross, I took a class on cross country skiing 169 00:07:20,868 --> 00:07:21,978 out there at this mountain. 170 00:07:21,978 --> 00:07:25,108 So I was good on my skis and I'd been skiing my 171 00:07:25,108 --> 00:07:26,098 whole life downhill. 172 00:07:26,548 --> 00:07:30,478 So we went, we compared our skills first, and we went into 173 00:07:30,478 --> 00:07:34,438 the deep wilderness in the middle of March with about 10 174 00:07:34,438 --> 00:07:36,928 feet of snow on the ground, and we went snow caving. 175 00:07:37,708 --> 00:07:39,978 So we skied into this place called Mount Assiniboine 176 00:07:39,994 --> 00:07:40,978 in British Columbia. 177 00:07:41,978 --> 00:07:43,478 And we lived in snow caves, so dug 'em out with a 178 00:07:43,478 --> 00:07:44,748 shovel and it was great. 179 00:07:45,048 --> 00:07:46,453 We had, it was really, it was great. 180 00:07:46,453 --> 00:07:48,733 Scary a little bit sometimes, but neither 181 00:07:48,738 --> 00:07:49,873 of us ever lost our head. 182 00:07:49,873 --> 00:07:51,943 We learned about each other. 183 00:07:52,003 --> 00:07:55,173 We learned to trust each other and it was fabulous. 184 00:07:55,178 --> 00:07:58,383 So we skied back out again, and then we were doing this 185 00:07:58,383 --> 00:08:01,883 one day ice climb and this one day ice climb -I'd been 186 00:08:01,983 --> 00:08:05,343 climbing on rocks with ropes and chalks and carabiners 187 00:08:05,343 --> 00:08:07,113 and all this kind of stuff, and I'd done a whole bunch 188 00:08:07,113 --> 00:08:09,063 of that, but I'd never done ice climbing before. 189 00:08:09,723 --> 00:08:12,813 But Tim was certified and there was this internationally 190 00:08:12,813 --> 00:08:16,383 famous wall called lower weeping wall north of 191 00:08:16,383 --> 00:08:18,873 Banff for all you folks who know Western Canada. 192 00:08:19,233 --> 00:08:21,543 So it's, I don't know, several hours north of 193 00:08:21,543 --> 00:08:23,043 Banff and south of Jasper. 194 00:08:23,463 --> 00:08:25,103 And it's right on the Ice Fields Parkway. 195 00:08:25,103 --> 00:08:26,633 So it's easy to get to. 196 00:08:27,633 --> 00:08:28,803 So we parked in the parking lot. 197 00:08:29,133 --> 00:08:31,233 We get all our gear, and Tim owned all the 198 00:08:31,233 --> 00:08:31,983 gear that he needed. 199 00:08:31,983 --> 00:08:33,213 He's from a very wealthy family. 200 00:08:33,213 --> 00:08:36,393 Had the car he was driving was a new car that his dad 201 00:08:36,393 --> 00:08:38,013 gave him for going to school. 202 00:08:38,463 --> 00:08:39,813 So Tim had all the gear. 203 00:08:39,843 --> 00:08:42,573 I had to borrow and find gear that I needed. 204 00:08:42,578 --> 00:08:43,143 And I did. 205 00:08:43,143 --> 00:08:46,593 I found everything I needed except two hammers. 206 00:08:46,593 --> 00:08:48,993 I found one hammer and one axe. 207 00:08:49,203 --> 00:08:51,213 And the axe is significantly longer. 208 00:08:51,213 --> 00:08:52,893 And when you swing that thing, you can 209 00:08:52,898 --> 00:08:54,243 plant that way up high. 210 00:08:54,293 --> 00:08:56,843 And then you can let go of it and dangle there's a strap 211 00:08:56,843 --> 00:08:58,733 you can support yourself on and so you don't have 212 00:08:58,733 --> 00:08:59,573 to grip it the whole time. 213 00:08:59,783 --> 00:09:01,583 But the hammer's just like a little tiny hammer. 214 00:09:01,913 --> 00:09:04,488 And so every time I swung that thing I got a shorter 215 00:09:04,488 --> 00:09:08,208 reach on it and the strap that you that so you don't 216 00:09:08,208 --> 00:09:10,158 drop it cuz it wasn't designed to climb the hammers. 217 00:09:10,368 --> 00:09:12,408 The hammers really for chipping ice and for 218 00:09:12,408 --> 00:09:13,968 putting in ice screws. 219 00:09:13,968 --> 00:09:15,168 And taking out ice screws. 220 00:09:16,168 --> 00:09:18,598 But you can climb with it cuz it's shaped similarly. 221 00:09:19,018 --> 00:09:22,168 And I convinced Tim, we both were nervous about this 222 00:09:22,168 --> 00:09:23,998 cuz we couldn't, I couldn't come up with two axes and I 223 00:09:23,998 --> 00:09:25,228 couldn't afford to buy one. 224 00:09:25,828 --> 00:09:27,708 So we're like can I do this? 225 00:09:27,918 --> 00:09:30,228 And although two weeks leading up to the trip and we 226 00:09:30,228 --> 00:09:31,398 decided that I could do it. 227 00:09:32,008 --> 00:09:35,818 And so I did do it, but the problem was that it slowed 228 00:09:35,818 --> 00:09:37,378 my climb down significantly. 229 00:09:37,708 --> 00:09:40,738 Not only because of the reach on the swing, but because 230 00:09:40,743 --> 00:09:43,498 of the exertion of having to hold onto it and never being 231 00:09:43,498 --> 00:09:45,268 able to relax my forearms. 232 00:09:46,108 --> 00:09:49,108 I did switch arms but the burned out my forearms 233 00:09:49,108 --> 00:09:51,178 very quickly cause I had to keep holding on. 234 00:09:51,178 --> 00:09:54,418 Cuz in ice, in all climbing, you need three points 235 00:09:54,418 --> 00:09:55,678 of contact at all times. 236 00:09:55,708 --> 00:09:58,678 So you need either two feet and one hand, or 237 00:09:58,768 --> 00:09:59,908 two hands and one foot. 238 00:10:00,118 --> 00:10:01,918 And so three points of contact at all times. 239 00:10:01,918 --> 00:10:06,038 So there's always some hand involved and sometimes 240 00:10:06,038 --> 00:10:06,938 it had to be the hammer. 241 00:10:07,368 --> 00:10:08,568 Half the time probably. 242 00:10:09,543 --> 00:10:12,213 All of this meant that by the time we reached the top 243 00:10:12,213 --> 00:10:15,903 of the climb, five or 600 feet, the sun was setting. 244 00:10:15,963 --> 00:10:18,153 And the other teams who had been climbing that day, and 245 00:10:18,153 --> 00:10:22,033 there had been a dozen teams other than us who were gone 246 00:10:22,063 --> 00:10:23,173 except for the final team. 247 00:10:23,173 --> 00:10:25,573 And they were leaving and they're like looking up 248 00:10:25,578 --> 00:10:28,663 at us 500 feet up going, what are you guys crazy? 249 00:10:28,663 --> 00:10:29,863 And but we were stuck. 250 00:10:29,863 --> 00:10:32,203 You can't, it's not like hiking when you go on a 251 00:10:32,203 --> 00:10:34,003 trail and you're going hiking and you're like, ah, 252 00:10:34,003 --> 00:10:35,323 it's raining and I'm tired. 253 00:10:35,323 --> 00:10:37,628 Or the fog came in and, or, I got a bur in 254 00:10:37,633 --> 00:10:38,288 my shoe or something. 255 00:10:38,288 --> 00:10:39,188 You turn around and you go back. 256 00:10:39,428 --> 00:10:40,898 You can't do that when you're ice climbing. 257 00:10:40,903 --> 00:10:43,208 You've got to go up, you've got to finish the 258 00:10:43,208 --> 00:10:45,198 climb so that you can come down on the rappels. 259 00:10:45,788 --> 00:10:49,573 So we knew halfway up the climb that we were 260 00:10:49,573 --> 00:10:50,533 in serious trouble. 261 00:10:51,263 --> 00:10:53,923 Part of being in the ski patrol is being trained 262 00:10:53,923 --> 00:10:55,273 in wilderness first aid. 263 00:10:55,633 --> 00:10:59,328 And so I, I had known that hypothermia and frostbite 264 00:10:59,568 --> 00:11:01,818 were a real possibility because at the mountain I was 265 00:11:01,818 --> 00:11:05,908 working at, there was this weekend where it was, and 266 00:11:05,908 --> 00:11:08,248 I don't know what it is in Celsius, but in Fahrenheit 267 00:11:08,303 --> 00:11:10,133 it was 40 below zero. 268 00:11:11,133 --> 00:11:12,443 That's really cold. 269 00:11:12,833 --> 00:11:15,353 And we were pulling people off the mountain with frostbite 270 00:11:15,358 --> 00:11:16,373 and with hypothermia. 271 00:11:16,373 --> 00:11:17,693 And so it was fresh in my head. 272 00:11:18,653 --> 00:11:21,283 So we got about halfway up and I, I knew we were in 273 00:11:21,283 --> 00:11:24,133 serious trouble, but I could only go as fast as I could 274 00:11:24,133 --> 00:11:26,563 go, and Tim knew it too. 275 00:11:27,028 --> 00:11:29,083 And he was very a good leader. 276 00:11:29,263 --> 00:11:30,733 He didn't pressure me. 277 00:11:30,733 --> 00:11:33,823 He just encouraged me and helped me go as quickly 278 00:11:33,823 --> 00:11:34,873 as I could, and I did. 279 00:11:35,383 --> 00:11:37,273 But by the time we reached the top of the climb, 280 00:11:37,273 --> 00:11:39,798 the sun was setting that last team was leaving, 281 00:11:39,803 --> 00:11:40,998 looking at us crazy guys. 282 00:11:41,378 --> 00:11:43,028 The sunset, the temperature dropped about 283 00:11:43,028 --> 00:11:44,468 30 degrees like that. 284 00:11:45,028 --> 00:11:48,928 The stars came out at 10 million stars of every 285 00:11:48,928 --> 00:11:49,918 color you can imagine. 286 00:11:50,428 --> 00:11:54,118 And so there was enough light to see by, but immediately we 287 00:11:54,123 --> 00:11:56,548 began to have violent shivers. 288 00:11:56,553 --> 00:12:01,338 And every muscle in my body was independently quaking. 289 00:12:02,118 --> 00:12:04,038 So my jaw was clattering. 290 00:12:04,788 --> 00:12:07,248 My hands were shaking, my body's twitching all over 291 00:12:07,248 --> 00:12:08,788 the place uncontrollably. 292 00:12:09,628 --> 00:12:13,918 And we knew that we were in serious deadly trouble cuz 293 00:12:13,918 --> 00:12:15,268 we're five or 600 feet up. 294 00:12:15,268 --> 00:12:16,978 We're in the middle, middle of the wilderness 295 00:12:17,368 --> 00:12:20,158 all night long for the, through the entire night. 296 00:12:20,878 --> 00:12:25,678 Two vehicles went by and one of them, one 297 00:12:25,678 --> 00:12:26,308 of them pulled in. 298 00:12:26,308 --> 00:12:27,748 But I'll get to that story part of the 299 00:12:27,748 --> 00:12:28,618 story in a little bit. 300 00:12:29,308 --> 00:12:31,198 So it's very isolated. 301 00:12:32,198 --> 00:12:37,618 We knew we were on our own and we understood I understood 302 00:12:37,618 --> 00:12:40,348 and told Tim that we were going to die, and if we stayed 303 00:12:40,348 --> 00:12:42,868 where we were and we talked about snuggling in because, 304 00:12:42,958 --> 00:12:45,148 and the wilderness, the first thing you do when you get 305 00:12:45,148 --> 00:12:48,538 lost or you're in trouble is you stay where you are. 306 00:12:48,838 --> 00:12:50,878 You don't keep moving because if you keep moving, 307 00:12:50,878 --> 00:12:51,868 they're never gonna find you. 308 00:12:52,498 --> 00:12:53,968 So you stay where you are. 309 00:12:54,028 --> 00:12:56,663 But we couldn't stay where we were because if we snuggled up 310 00:12:56,668 --> 00:12:59,003 against the mountain together, tried to use our body heat, 311 00:12:59,003 --> 00:13:01,733 we didn't have any body heat, and that we were gonna die 312 00:13:02,183 --> 00:13:03,443 as soon as we stopped moving. 313 00:13:04,358 --> 00:13:06,548 So the only thing that was keeping us warm was moving and 314 00:13:06,548 --> 00:13:07,658 we had drunk all our water. 315 00:13:08,408 --> 00:13:10,658 Fortunately there was ice, ice chips to suck on. 316 00:13:10,898 --> 00:13:14,438 But we had eaten all our food and nobody on, none of the 317 00:13:14,438 --> 00:13:17,498 teams on the climb that day had brought up gear to spend 318 00:13:17,498 --> 00:13:20,888 the night, cuz nobody expected us too to spend the night. 319 00:13:21,008 --> 00:13:23,488 So we were well prepared for the day, except for 320 00:13:23,488 --> 00:13:25,648 my ax hammer problem. 321 00:13:26,338 --> 00:13:27,988 But we were unprepared for the night. 322 00:13:28,798 --> 00:13:31,858 So we decided to press on, and I could tell you the whole 323 00:13:31,858 --> 00:13:34,728 story of the warden showing up because we had signed 324 00:13:34,728 --> 00:13:37,508 into the log and how our, my eyeballs were freezing. 325 00:13:37,508 --> 00:13:39,758 And I couldn't move my lips because my lips were frozen 326 00:13:39,758 --> 00:13:43,528 and I became cognitively impaired because it makes 327 00:13:43,528 --> 00:13:44,758 you make bad choices. 328 00:13:44,758 --> 00:13:45,958 Your brain freezes. 329 00:13:46,198 --> 00:13:48,358 I had frostbite all, I have all my digits, 330 00:13:48,458 --> 00:13:49,568 but I have problems. 331 00:13:49,668 --> 00:13:52,603 I have residual problems my whole life and my hands and my 332 00:13:52,603 --> 00:13:54,673 feet, my face, my whole body. 333 00:13:55,153 --> 00:13:59,733 It was imagine one of those movies or books where they're 334 00:13:59,733 --> 00:14:00,933 climbing in the Himalayas. 335 00:14:00,933 --> 00:14:04,713 It's a lower mountain, but all the terrors and the cold. 336 00:14:04,713 --> 00:14:05,463 It was like that. 337 00:14:06,123 --> 00:14:08,337 And I'll leave out most of the story because you 338 00:14:08,342 --> 00:14:11,007 probably wanna hear about the what happened when I died. 339 00:14:12,007 --> 00:14:14,767 But I will tell you this about it is that the hypothermia 340 00:14:14,767 --> 00:14:15,697 progressed through the night. 341 00:14:15,697 --> 00:14:16,897 We had three repels to go. 342 00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:18,877 The hypothermia progressed through the night and 343 00:14:18,882 --> 00:14:22,637 there was this point at which the I should mention 344 00:14:22,637 --> 00:14:24,227 that cold feels like fire. 345 00:14:24,497 --> 00:14:26,147 So if you've ever put your hands on a burner, 346 00:14:26,387 --> 00:14:27,467 that's what it feels like. 347 00:14:27,977 --> 00:14:30,547 And and my feet were frozen and my hands were frozen. 348 00:14:30,547 --> 00:14:31,477 I'm in pain. 349 00:14:32,477 --> 00:14:37,027 My mind, my brain, my drive was survival in instinct. 350 00:14:37,417 --> 00:14:40,537 And there, there came this point in my night 351 00:14:40,867 --> 00:14:45,007 when I felt like I, I drilled with my willpower 352 00:14:45,337 --> 00:14:47,167 driving forward to survive. 353 00:14:47,387 --> 00:14:50,472 I drilled into this part of my brain that 354 00:14:50,922 --> 00:14:52,692 preexisted my humanity. 355 00:14:52,932 --> 00:14:54,552 It was so deep inside me. 356 00:14:54,702 --> 00:14:55,932 It was animalistic. 357 00:14:55,932 --> 00:14:59,802 It had an animalistic desire for survival. 358 00:14:59,862 --> 00:15:02,652 It had not nothing to do with language, it had nothing 359 00:15:02,652 --> 00:15:04,122 to do with my decision. 360 00:15:04,422 --> 00:15:07,762 I was, my body was making me survive. 361 00:15:07,767 --> 00:15:10,072 My brain was making me survive. 362 00:15:10,102 --> 00:15:13,372 And one of the things, another thing about climbing and 363 00:15:13,432 --> 00:15:17,407 being hypothermic is that, in climbing, you have to 364 00:15:17,407 --> 00:15:19,447 be very intentional about every motion that you make. 365 00:15:19,567 --> 00:15:21,397 You have to plan every move cuz you don't want 366 00:15:21,397 --> 00:15:22,657 to expend extra energy. 367 00:15:22,847 --> 00:15:25,367 When you're hypothermic and on a cliff and it's 368 00:15:25,367 --> 00:15:28,587 a, 500 foot drop, you're very careful about every 369 00:15:28,587 --> 00:15:29,937 motion that you make. 370 00:15:30,297 --> 00:15:33,737 And so we were being exacting and all of that, we could 371 00:15:33,857 --> 00:15:37,907 be exacting in as we lost our cognitive ability, as 372 00:15:37,907 --> 00:15:41,267 we lost our capacity for making good decisions. 373 00:15:41,267 --> 00:15:43,637 And we made a series of bad decisions 374 00:15:43,967 --> 00:15:44,657 throughout the night. 375 00:15:45,657 --> 00:15:47,247 So cut to the chase. 376 00:15:47,847 --> 00:15:49,777 Now we're at the last rappel. 377 00:15:49,797 --> 00:15:51,417 We fought our way across the mountain. 378 00:15:51,627 --> 00:15:53,667 The moon had risen at some point, and so we 379 00:15:53,667 --> 00:15:56,797 had a three quarter moon, and we had more light. 380 00:15:57,697 --> 00:16:00,687 And we're on a ledge the size of a grand piano. 381 00:16:00,767 --> 00:16:04,967 And in the mountain, we're off the ice, there are iron pins, 382 00:16:05,117 --> 00:16:09,197 eped drilled and eped into the mountain with rings, iron 383 00:16:09,197 --> 00:16:13,277 rings on them, and carabiners and straps and a carabiner. 384 00:16:13,307 --> 00:16:14,637 And I was hooked into my harness. 385 00:16:14,827 --> 00:16:19,297 So this was the top of the practice rappel space. 386 00:16:19,477 --> 00:16:21,637 So everybody climb up the face, and then with 387 00:16:21,637 --> 00:16:24,967 these harnesses, you could repel back down as good. 388 00:16:24,967 --> 00:16:25,177 Good. 389 00:16:25,177 --> 00:16:25,837 In the summertime. 390 00:16:25,837 --> 00:16:27,307 Good in the wintertime, because this is the first 391 00:16:27,307 --> 00:16:30,127 time that we were safe from falling all night. 392 00:16:30,757 --> 00:16:31,987 So we're harnessed in here. 393 00:16:31,987 --> 00:16:32,967 I'm I'm clipped in. 394 00:16:33,267 --> 00:16:34,017 We're on the ledge. 395 00:16:34,017 --> 00:16:34,018 Tim. 396 00:16:34,023 --> 00:16:35,097 Tim is to my left. 397 00:16:35,647 --> 00:16:39,977 At some time before dawn my feet were no longer on fire. 398 00:16:40,027 --> 00:16:41,647 I lost the feeling in my feet. 399 00:16:42,267 --> 00:16:49,757 I was in a state of slow moving determination. 400 00:16:50,757 --> 00:16:53,157 And so I took off my gloves and I had the rope 401 00:16:53,277 --> 00:16:54,607 and I put my gloves down. 402 00:16:54,637 --> 00:16:57,692 I was wearing rag wool mittens with leather chaps, which 403 00:16:57,697 --> 00:17:00,962 is, something you did in the 1970s, but you would never 404 00:17:00,967 --> 00:17:03,992 do now cuz there was a lot of technology that developed 405 00:17:04,232 --> 00:17:05,582 shortly after this happened. 406 00:17:06,582 --> 00:17:08,472 So I put my gloves down and I took the end of the rope 407 00:17:08,472 --> 00:17:10,782 and I tied it very carefully and slowly to my harness. 408 00:17:10,782 --> 00:17:13,152 And then I took the other end of the rope and I tossed 409 00:17:13,152 --> 00:17:14,622 it out around the corner. 410 00:17:14,712 --> 00:17:18,192 We had turned a corner on the, on our descent and I tossed it 411 00:17:18,192 --> 00:17:21,472 out around the corner into a dark crag that I couldn't see 412 00:17:21,472 --> 00:17:22,372 cuz it was around the corner. 413 00:17:22,672 --> 00:17:25,512 And I pulled on the rope, and the rope was through another 414 00:17:25,772 --> 00:17:28,392 epoxied iron ring up above. 415 00:17:28,392 --> 00:17:30,332 It's just pull that thing right down, only when I 416 00:17:30,332 --> 00:17:33,367 grabbed it and pulled it, it must have laid into some 417 00:17:33,372 --> 00:17:37,087 kind of rock wedge and it jammed on the very first pull. 418 00:17:37,107 --> 00:17:39,242 I didn't pull it an inch or two inches. 419 00:17:39,292 --> 00:17:42,292 And it's stuck now and I pulled it again and it got 420 00:17:42,292 --> 00:17:45,482 tighter but it's up around the corner and I've only 421 00:17:45,482 --> 00:17:46,442 got one end of the rope. 422 00:17:47,012 --> 00:17:50,672 And so now we're in the situation where salvation 423 00:17:50,672 --> 00:17:53,292 for us was right at the bottom of this rappel. 424 00:17:53,312 --> 00:17:56,292 There's the tent and the food and the stove. 425 00:17:56,292 --> 00:17:57,522 Everything's right down there. 426 00:17:57,972 --> 00:18:00,912 And now we can't get to it because we can't go back 427 00:18:00,912 --> 00:18:04,507 up the climb because I'm wearing crampons and it's 428 00:18:04,507 --> 00:18:07,417 in the dark and I'm not, I don't have a rope to climb. 429 00:18:07,417 --> 00:18:10,747 And plus I've got hypothermia and I couldn't 430 00:18:10,747 --> 00:18:14,177 get the rope free, so I kept pulling on the rope. 431 00:18:14,747 --> 00:18:20,257 But as the evening, as the morning wore on I began 432 00:18:20,257 --> 00:18:22,237 to go through the last stages of the hypothermia. 433 00:18:23,167 --> 00:18:26,082 So I'm gonna, I'm gonna skip all those and come 434 00:18:26,082 --> 00:18:27,102 right to the very end. 435 00:18:27,732 --> 00:18:31,602 When I had this feeling of peace come over me when I 436 00:18:31,602 --> 00:18:35,172 understood that I was going to die and there was nothing I 437 00:18:35,172 --> 00:18:37,882 could do about it that was it. 438 00:18:38,842 --> 00:18:44,762 And when I accepted that, this peace settled on me and 439 00:18:44,762 --> 00:18:49,382 I started thinking about my parents and my missing sister 440 00:18:49,437 --> 00:18:50,937 and how I was gonna die. 441 00:18:51,567 --> 00:18:54,147 And it was going to destroy my family. 442 00:18:54,147 --> 00:18:56,547 Cuz one of the things that happens when someone is 443 00:18:56,547 --> 00:19:00,807 vanishes in your life, whether they vanish, they're gone. 444 00:19:01,367 --> 00:19:05,987 This is like a death except for there's no community 445 00:19:05,987 --> 00:19:08,987 support, there's no memorial service, there's no obituary 446 00:19:08,987 --> 00:19:11,147 in the paper, there's no recognition, there's 447 00:19:11,152 --> 00:19:13,597 only ongoing mourning. 448 00:19:13,847 --> 00:19:17,207 You can't ever move on to the next stage because 449 00:19:17,927 --> 00:19:19,097 there is no next stage. 450 00:19:19,892 --> 00:19:22,362 So it's this elongation of grief. 451 00:19:23,142 --> 00:19:27,042 And I realized that I was dying and my parents who 452 00:19:27,042 --> 00:19:31,542 had this terrible grief would really lose another 453 00:19:31,542 --> 00:19:34,482 child and it would break them, but I couldn't fix it. 454 00:19:35,482 --> 00:19:39,692 So I began to fall asleep and I would fall asleep 455 00:19:39,692 --> 00:19:41,602 and I collapsed to the rock and I'd stand back 456 00:19:41,607 --> 00:19:45,022 up again and fall asleep and stand back up again. 457 00:19:45,022 --> 00:19:48,332 And this last time I stood up, I had tunnel vision, 458 00:19:48,482 --> 00:19:51,032 which is like a big huge circle all around me. 459 00:19:51,332 --> 00:19:54,422 Blackness, just out, just on the edge of 460 00:19:54,422 --> 00:19:55,412 my peripheral vision. 461 00:19:55,652 --> 00:19:58,412 And it closed in really rapidly. 462 00:19:58,532 --> 00:20:02,316 Like, And I didn't understand what was going on. 463 00:20:02,321 --> 00:20:04,446 I was like, what is, everywhere I looked, there 464 00:20:04,446 --> 00:20:05,586 was this tunnel thing. 465 00:20:06,016 --> 00:20:08,716 And as I looked to the front, it went. 466 00:20:10,372 --> 00:20:13,072 And as it started to close down, I thought I must 467 00:20:13,072 --> 00:20:14,212 be falling asleep again. 468 00:20:14,632 --> 00:20:15,502 But it was unusual. 469 00:20:15,502 --> 00:20:17,002 I never fallen asleep like this before, and 470 00:20:17,002 --> 00:20:18,322 then it went out, boom. 471 00:20:18,862 --> 00:20:20,962 And when it went out, I expected to be 472 00:20:20,962 --> 00:20:21,862 asleep, but I wasn't. 473 00:20:21,867 --> 00:20:25,962 I was like, oh, I why am I not asleep? 474 00:20:25,962 --> 00:20:27,942 How, where, how come I'm not in pain? 475 00:20:28,722 --> 00:20:29,202 Why? 476 00:20:29,562 --> 00:20:30,702 Where'd the mountain go? 477 00:20:31,602 --> 00:20:33,012 What, where am I? 478 00:20:33,922 --> 00:20:36,262 And in front of me, where the mountain had been, 479 00:20:36,772 --> 00:20:39,742 there was this hu opening, and this opening was 480 00:20:39,742 --> 00:20:43,752 this enormous blackness. 481 00:20:44,612 --> 00:20:47,602 This, but it was blackness that was, that I could 482 00:20:47,607 --> 00:20:48,592 see the blackness. 483 00:20:48,592 --> 00:20:51,262 It's like when you're in a room and you close, like 484 00:20:51,262 --> 00:20:53,302 the room I'm in, if I shut off the lights, I've got 485 00:20:53,302 --> 00:20:56,812 a, I'm in a room that has darkening shades, if I 486 00:20:56,812 --> 00:20:59,212 could dark room darkening shades, I shut off the lights 487 00:20:59,212 --> 00:21:00,352 it's pitch black in here. 488 00:21:01,282 --> 00:21:02,962 You can't see the darkness. 489 00:21:03,607 --> 00:21:07,837 But in this darkness, I could see the darkness and 490 00:21:07,837 --> 00:21:09,617 I was confused what is this? 491 00:21:09,617 --> 00:21:12,067 I can, I can't understand what's going on and I 492 00:21:12,067 --> 00:21:12,937 don't have any more pain. 493 00:21:12,937 --> 00:21:17,252 And as I'm wondering about what's going on very far in 494 00:21:17,252 --> 00:21:23,712 the distance, a, like a cosmos away, there is a star appears. 495 00:21:23,952 --> 00:21:26,052 A single star, white star. 496 00:21:26,142 --> 00:21:29,772 And a single white star as it appears, it rushes toward 497 00:21:29,772 --> 00:21:31,662 me across this vast expanse. 498 00:21:31,872 --> 00:21:34,902 And as it comes toward me, it fills my vision. 499 00:21:34,902 --> 00:21:36,462 So it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. 500 00:21:36,772 --> 00:21:38,152 And it covers over the darkness. 501 00:21:38,872 --> 00:21:41,392 And as it comes toward me, I'm like, what is going on here? 502 00:21:42,322 --> 00:21:47,092 Communicates to me directly, but telepathically. 503 00:21:47,092 --> 00:21:48,952 And it says to me, I'm taking you. 504 00:21:49,132 --> 00:21:50,512 And I'm not afraid. 505 00:21:50,962 --> 00:21:54,032 I'm not afraid because I don't partly because I'd 506 00:21:54,032 --> 00:21:56,192 had these other two mystical experiences when I was a 507 00:21:56,197 --> 00:22:00,602 kid, and this angelic being was not fearful to me. 508 00:22:01,352 --> 00:22:03,482 And I was like, oh, I was resistant though. 509 00:22:03,482 --> 00:22:05,042 I was like, I don't know what's going on here. 510 00:22:05,252 --> 00:22:06,842 I don't know where you're taking me, but 511 00:22:06,842 --> 00:22:07,922 I'm not going anywhere. 512 00:22:08,162 --> 00:22:10,997 And so I reached down inside myself and I put up a 513 00:22:10,997 --> 00:22:13,247 shield against being taken. 514 00:22:13,457 --> 00:22:15,467 And so it rushes toward me and it communicates 515 00:22:15,467 --> 00:22:17,897 to me, telepathically, I'm taking you. 516 00:22:18,017 --> 00:22:19,487 And I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. 517 00:22:19,487 --> 00:22:21,347 And I'm, and boom, I'm gone. 518 00:22:21,707 --> 00:22:23,807 I just sucks me right into itself. 519 00:22:23,937 --> 00:22:25,647 I'm carried right inside of it. 520 00:22:25,707 --> 00:22:29,947 And it's like a, an orb of energy. 521 00:22:30,277 --> 00:22:34,287 It's a very large orb of energy and I am, I no 522 00:22:34,287 --> 00:22:35,727 longer have a physical form. 523 00:22:36,282 --> 00:22:40,392 I have a light body and my light body is, and I, and 524 00:22:40,392 --> 00:22:41,352 these are all metaphors. 525 00:22:41,352 --> 00:22:41,772 Okay? 526 00:22:42,042 --> 00:22:46,182 It's not made of photons, it's something other than photons, 527 00:22:46,392 --> 00:22:47,742 more real than photons. 528 00:22:47,742 --> 00:22:48,702 But I have a light body. 529 00:22:48,702 --> 00:22:51,732 It's still shaped and looks like a human form. 530 00:22:52,242 --> 00:22:56,172 And I'm inside this angelic being, this orb that's 531 00:22:56,172 --> 00:23:02,652 communicating to me comfort, welcome, intelligence, power. 532 00:23:03,102 --> 00:23:06,787 I had this inc sense that it was the all powerful, 533 00:23:06,817 --> 00:23:11,617 and I had this sense that it was also reduced for me. 534 00:23:12,487 --> 00:23:15,067 That it was this super positioned thing where 535 00:23:15,137 --> 00:23:18,917 it was a limited form of this infinite, but the 536 00:23:18,917 --> 00:23:22,427 limited form was immensely more powerful than me. 537 00:23:23,427 --> 00:23:26,667 And it carried me back up the direction that it came. 538 00:23:26,667 --> 00:23:29,067 And I could see through it, I could see through 539 00:23:29,067 --> 00:23:30,417 it into the darkness. 540 00:23:30,637 --> 00:23:33,397 But as I'm looking into the darkness, I can also 541 00:23:33,402 --> 00:23:38,287 see me and the angelic orb from the outside. 542 00:23:38,457 --> 00:23:39,987 I have a second vision. 543 00:23:40,417 --> 00:23:45,907 A non located non form, but I can see me 544 00:23:45,967 --> 00:23:48,067 inside of it traveling. 545 00:23:48,067 --> 00:23:51,262 And I'm, and my eye, this eye that sees me inside of 546 00:23:51,267 --> 00:23:54,232 it is paralleling the track and I can see me, but when 547 00:23:54,232 --> 00:23:58,402 I look at the eye outside from the inside, this angelic 548 00:23:58,402 --> 00:23:59,242 being, I don't see it. 549 00:23:59,947 --> 00:24:03,667 So I can see me looking at this eye, but I can't see 550 00:24:03,667 --> 00:24:06,127 the eye and I can see that I'm looking at it and I 551 00:24:06,127 --> 00:24:07,237 know that it can't see me. 552 00:24:07,747 --> 00:24:09,217 So I am bi located. 553 00:24:09,517 --> 00:24:12,847 I am both this light being, but I'm also this observer. 554 00:24:13,497 --> 00:24:16,857 And as we traveled back up this route that it had come 555 00:24:16,857 --> 00:24:22,527 down and was taking me back to, I was then unfolded like 556 00:24:22,527 --> 00:24:26,037 a, an opening of a flower and suddenly it opened, 557 00:24:26,307 --> 00:24:30,127 this angelic being opened up and I came out of it and 558 00:24:30,132 --> 00:24:33,727 maybe it expanded into this much larger space, or maybe 559 00:24:33,727 --> 00:24:35,977 it stayed, I don't really know, stayed outside, I'm 560 00:24:35,977 --> 00:24:36,997 not sure what happened. 561 00:24:37,417 --> 00:24:42,187 But I was suddenly inside of a much larger darkness that 562 00:24:42,192 --> 00:24:46,877 was extended the size of the universe in every direction. 563 00:24:47,177 --> 00:24:50,807 And it was complete darkness, but it was also 564 00:24:50,807 --> 00:24:52,037 illuminated darkness. 565 00:24:52,067 --> 00:24:55,477 And I could see vast, a vast distance in every 566 00:24:55,477 --> 00:24:56,857 direction simultaneously. 567 00:24:56,977 --> 00:24:58,687 Like I had 10,000 eyes. 568 00:24:58,987 --> 00:25:03,127 But there was a point at which my vision only saw darkness, 569 00:25:03,127 --> 00:25:05,317 and it was incredible distance away from me. 570 00:25:05,497 --> 00:25:10,277 But there was an impenetrability of, I was not 571 00:25:10,277 --> 00:25:15,147 capable of seeing into this infinity, but I was enormous. 572 00:25:15,597 --> 00:25:18,657 I was 10,000 times bigger than my human body. 573 00:25:18,927 --> 00:25:20,557 And I was a ball of energy. 574 00:25:20,827 --> 00:25:22,447 I was a consciousness. 575 00:25:22,747 --> 00:25:29,627 That was, that my thinking and my knowledge of myself and 576 00:25:29,627 --> 00:25:34,497 my physical form, which is, a misnomer because I didn't 577 00:25:34,497 --> 00:25:35,907 have any physicality at all. 578 00:25:36,057 --> 00:25:40,057 I was something other than a thing, but all of me was one. 579 00:25:40,807 --> 00:25:45,647 My thinking and my energy, myself, I was one thing. 580 00:25:45,707 --> 00:25:49,567 There wasn't like a hand and a brain and my ideas. 581 00:25:49,567 --> 00:25:51,547 My hand and my brain were all one thing. 582 00:25:51,907 --> 00:25:53,977 And I didn't have any hands, and I didn't have a brain. 583 00:25:54,627 --> 00:25:56,847 And I was thinking faster than I'd ever thought 584 00:25:56,847 --> 00:25:57,897 before in my life. 585 00:25:57,897 --> 00:25:58,857 And I was content. 586 00:25:59,247 --> 00:26:03,277 I was finally me again. 587 00:26:03,847 --> 00:26:05,947 I know myself, this is who I've always been. 588 00:26:06,217 --> 00:26:07,417 How did I not know? 589 00:26:08,417 --> 00:26:09,287 How did I forget? 590 00:26:10,287 --> 00:26:13,957 And as I'm in this form, And as I'm looking in every 591 00:26:13,957 --> 00:26:17,457 direction simultaneously, there was this like a 592 00:26:17,457 --> 00:26:22,287 waterfall of light that opened in the darkness. 593 00:26:22,292 --> 00:26:24,987 The darkness kind of parted, and as it parted, 594 00:26:24,987 --> 00:26:26,607 this light showed through. 595 00:26:26,847 --> 00:26:30,877 But it was this I was the size of a mouse and it was the size 596 00:26:30,877 --> 00:26:35,887 of the largest waterfall on earth, and it was enormous. 597 00:26:35,892 --> 00:26:37,182 And it was not next to me. 598 00:26:37,182 --> 00:26:38,712 It came toward me. 599 00:26:38,922 --> 00:26:43,542 And as it came toward me, I experienced a desire 600 00:26:44,112 --> 00:26:47,712 and a passion and a love for it I can't explain. 601 00:26:47,712 --> 00:26:53,652 It was the most beautiful, seductive energy that 602 00:26:53,712 --> 00:26:55,152 I only wanted it. 603 00:26:55,512 --> 00:26:58,417 And it was several things simultaneously. 604 00:26:58,687 --> 00:27:03,817 It was white light and it was 10 million colors. 605 00:27:04,147 --> 00:27:06,367 And it wasn't like flicking between light and color. 606 00:27:06,517 --> 00:27:07,327 It was light. 607 00:27:07,762 --> 00:27:11,302 White light and 10 million colors all at the same time. 608 00:27:11,942 --> 00:27:15,092 And these fragments made up the white light and the white 609 00:27:15,092 --> 00:27:19,292 light made up the fragments, and they were flowing like 610 00:27:19,292 --> 00:27:23,037 iridescence like fish scales, iridescent and glowing. 611 00:27:23,042 --> 00:27:25,492 And there was a solidity to the surface of it. 612 00:27:25,792 --> 00:27:27,832 And, but it was also translucent. 613 00:27:27,832 --> 00:27:31,762 I could see into its depth and I could transparent as 614 00:27:31,762 --> 00:27:35,062 well, I could see through it to a deeper darkness. 615 00:27:35,592 --> 00:27:40,332 And I wanted it and it wanted me. 616 00:27:40,782 --> 00:27:44,592 And so as it approached and I moved toward it with thought, 617 00:27:45,322 --> 00:27:46,912 I touched it with my being. 618 00:27:47,902 --> 00:27:51,292 And when I touched it with my being, I opened and 619 00:27:51,297 --> 00:27:56,002 as I opened it in flowed, and now I was inflated and 620 00:27:56,007 --> 00:27:59,122 surrounded and all these things happened at once. 621 00:27:59,332 --> 00:28:00,292 And I should add this. 622 00:28:01,282 --> 00:28:02,482 I was in a place of no thingness. 623 00:28:03,482 --> 00:28:05,522 There were no things in this place. 624 00:28:06,122 --> 00:28:08,492 There was nothing that had ever been a thing, was there. 625 00:28:08,582 --> 00:28:09,782 I was not even a thing. 626 00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:13,282 I don't know how to describe it, but, so I'm 627 00:28:13,282 --> 00:28:18,262 in this no thingness that is speaking to me love. 628 00:28:18,742 --> 00:28:22,492 It's expanding inside of me and I'm also in timelessness. 629 00:28:22,552 --> 00:28:25,882 And it wasn't just like being in the, now if you practice 630 00:28:25,882 --> 00:28:28,522 meditation, you get to touch into these moments of the 631 00:28:28,527 --> 00:28:30,657 now repeatedly or repeatedly. 632 00:28:30,927 --> 00:28:35,307 This was the now and it was also time forward and time 633 00:28:35,307 --> 00:28:37,647 passed and time inverted and time upside down. 634 00:28:37,647 --> 00:28:42,507 It was all time beyond the linear time that we talk 635 00:28:42,507 --> 00:28:44,577 about, and it was all now. 636 00:28:44,817 --> 00:28:46,437 There was no past and no future. 637 00:28:46,677 --> 00:28:48,057 It was all in the moment. 638 00:28:48,177 --> 00:28:50,067 And so all these things happened to me 639 00:28:50,067 --> 00:28:53,637 simultaneously, and I've ordered them in a story and 640 00:28:53,637 --> 00:28:54,927 I've given them language. 641 00:28:55,047 --> 00:28:57,957 That's what, so after all this happened, I, my 642 00:28:57,957 --> 00:28:59,307 life changed radically. 643 00:28:59,547 --> 00:29:02,247 I went to I didn't take the professional course I was 644 00:29:02,247 --> 00:29:04,767 gonna take into architecture and graduate school. 645 00:29:04,917 --> 00:29:08,157 I went to divinity school and I studied mysticism in 646 00:29:08,157 --> 00:29:10,617 order to try to figure out what had happened to me. 647 00:29:11,307 --> 00:29:14,667 So I created language to talk about it. 648 00:29:14,907 --> 00:29:16,052 I found language. 649 00:29:17,052 --> 00:29:21,582 So there's, I'm in timelessness and I hear 650 00:29:21,582 --> 00:29:24,372 my name being called, but it's not Peter. 651 00:29:25,032 --> 00:29:29,172 It's the Peter is, as I understand myself now, 652 00:29:29,172 --> 00:29:33,627 is just an expression of this timeline. 653 00:29:33,637 --> 00:29:34,747 I am not this thing. 654 00:29:35,257 --> 00:29:43,627 I knew myself as an eternal entity soul, and I knew as I 655 00:29:43,627 --> 00:29:45,157 was being called into being. 656 00:29:45,517 --> 00:29:49,812 So this voice is inside of me and it surrounds me and 657 00:29:49,812 --> 00:29:54,372 I can't see it, but it fills me and it's calling my name 658 00:29:54,372 --> 00:29:58,482 into being, it's speaking my soul into existence 659 00:29:58,632 --> 00:30:02,842 as it has for eons and eons, always in the now. 660 00:30:03,652 --> 00:30:08,947 And it showed me the origin of my soul self. 661 00:30:09,637 --> 00:30:14,527 It showed me the I was like a singular photon and a 662 00:30:14,527 --> 00:30:20,887 field, an energetic field of photons that were infinitely 663 00:30:20,887 --> 00:30:22,387 deep and wide and broad. 664 00:30:22,597 --> 00:30:24,337 But I was separate from them. 665 00:30:24,757 --> 00:30:28,257 I was outside of it, but I was super positioned with it. 666 00:30:28,257 --> 00:30:29,457 I was connected to it. 667 00:30:29,667 --> 00:30:34,977 I was a portion of this infinite being of light, 668 00:30:35,337 --> 00:30:38,937 and it was always calling me into existence. 669 00:30:39,237 --> 00:30:42,117 And as it's calling me into existence, I understood 670 00:30:42,477 --> 00:30:45,207 the structure of the cosmos because I was 671 00:30:45,207 --> 00:30:46,767 connected to the creator. 672 00:30:46,947 --> 00:30:49,377 I understood that I was being created. 673 00:30:49,527 --> 00:30:53,037 I understood that creator creates everything always 674 00:30:53,037 --> 00:30:56,517 in the now and is unlimited power and intellect 675 00:30:56,577 --> 00:30:58,497 and kindness and love. 676 00:30:58,777 --> 00:31:04,662 And I was, I as this soul this fragment of the fullness 677 00:31:04,662 --> 00:31:09,642 of the light was also the light, but I was somehow 678 00:31:09,642 --> 00:31:11,382 reduction, a reduction of it. 679 00:31:11,892 --> 00:31:16,812 And then I saw my, the, my next soul level down 680 00:31:17,382 --> 00:31:23,772 where I was like a big, huge, long tale of life. 681 00:31:24,132 --> 00:31:27,642 And in through this long tale of life from my 682 00:31:27,642 --> 00:31:30,362 origin always being called into being to the most 683 00:31:30,362 --> 00:31:31,772 recent incarnation, Peter. 684 00:31:32,042 --> 00:31:34,322 They were these little, they were lives that I had 685 00:31:34,322 --> 00:31:37,352 lived, and all of these incarnations that I had lived 686 00:31:37,562 --> 00:31:39,332 were all simultaneous to me. 687 00:31:40,202 --> 00:31:43,952 And I could see that none of them were the fullness of me. 688 00:31:43,952 --> 00:31:47,642 All of them were these tiny little slivers that 689 00:31:47,647 --> 00:31:50,702 they were more, more like injected into my oversoul 690 00:31:50,852 --> 00:31:55,832 as a needle as opposed to being the thing itself. 691 00:31:56,582 --> 00:32:00,236 And as I was shown this, I could see these lives and I 692 00:32:00,236 --> 00:32:05,166 was shown, I asked to be shown to look inside, and I could 693 00:32:05,166 --> 00:32:10,436 see I was inside a human being and I was on a dirt road and 694 00:32:10,436 --> 00:32:12,506 it was hot, and there were palm trees and I was with a 695 00:32:12,506 --> 00:32:15,176 bunch of people and there were people walking on this road, 696 00:32:15,176 --> 00:32:17,156 and it was I dunno a thousand years ago or something. 697 00:32:17,306 --> 00:32:20,096 And I was seeing through this person's eyes, and 698 00:32:20,101 --> 00:32:22,346 they were my eyes because I was inhabiting them. 699 00:32:22,826 --> 00:32:25,916 And then I was pulled out of this person and I was put 700 00:32:25,916 --> 00:32:27,746 into a, some kind of creature. 701 00:32:28,106 --> 00:32:30,286 And I've long thought this creature might have been 702 00:32:30,286 --> 00:32:32,926 an animal of some kind, but I don't know whether 703 00:32:32,926 --> 00:32:33,886 I was even on earth. 704 00:32:34,426 --> 00:32:35,806 I was looking through a different set of eyes, 705 00:32:35,966 --> 00:32:36,876 but not human eyes. 706 00:32:36,891 --> 00:32:39,466 And so everything I saw was shaped differently 707 00:32:39,496 --> 00:32:42,496 with different colors, and I had no idea what I was. 708 00:32:43,156 --> 00:32:45,616 And I was pulled back out again and I could see 709 00:32:45,616 --> 00:32:48,016 that I'd never been any of these, even though I had 710 00:32:48,016 --> 00:32:50,086 lived them and was living them from my point of view. 711 00:32:50,926 --> 00:32:54,346 And as all of this is going on, I'm also simultaneously 712 00:32:54,586 --> 00:32:59,326 experiencing the, this divine examination of my most recent 713 00:32:59,331 --> 00:33:03,056 human life where I can see I'm being called into being. 714 00:33:03,061 --> 00:33:05,386 I still have the same experience of always being 715 00:33:05,386 --> 00:33:08,756 called into being but also I see my human life and 716 00:33:08,806 --> 00:33:12,376 I see that I'm being seen and that there is nothing 717 00:33:12,376 --> 00:33:16,671 that I had done in my as Peter that was unseen. 718 00:33:16,671 --> 00:33:20,961 Every single aspect of me was brilliantly illuminated, no 719 00:33:20,961 --> 00:33:23,181 dark corners to hide anything. 720 00:33:23,691 --> 00:33:28,311 And as I was seeing into my own dark corners, I was went 721 00:33:28,316 --> 00:33:32,211 through a life review and my life review was a hell that 722 00:33:32,211 --> 00:33:37,191 I had created for myself as I had in my life, given away 723 00:33:37,191 --> 00:33:39,621 pain to people intentionally. 724 00:33:40,041 --> 00:33:44,181 And it, it was a chronological experience of being inside 725 00:33:44,181 --> 00:33:48,621 of every single person and every single time that I hurt 726 00:33:48,621 --> 00:33:51,861 every single person being inside of them and seeing 727 00:33:52,411 --> 00:33:56,551 experiencing the pain that I had given them from their 728 00:33:57,391 --> 00:34:01,261 emotional, psychological, chemical point of view. 729 00:34:01,441 --> 00:34:05,521 Simultaneously, I was also inside of my human 730 00:34:05,526 --> 00:34:09,071 self experiencing all of the pain that I gave them 731 00:34:09,911 --> 00:34:10,871 from my point of view. 732 00:34:11,871 --> 00:34:15,171 Why I gave it to them, what I was feeling, how I wanted them 733 00:34:15,171 --> 00:34:18,741 to hurt, and the disproportion between these two things. 734 00:34:19,131 --> 00:34:25,131 My, my weak and human, willful intention to cause suffering. 735 00:34:25,311 --> 00:34:27,611 And the, which was teeny, teeny tiny. 736 00:34:27,971 --> 00:34:31,271 But the suffering I caused each time was ginormous 737 00:34:32,261 --> 00:34:35,141 and that all the pain that I had given away had 738 00:34:35,201 --> 00:34:39,671 karmically attached to me, and that it was my pain. 739 00:34:40,481 --> 00:34:46,301 And I understood that the divine lived in inside 740 00:34:46,301 --> 00:34:48,491 of me and experienced all of this with me. 741 00:34:48,641 --> 00:34:50,501 That's why there were no hidden spots. 742 00:34:50,741 --> 00:34:52,841 That's why you could see everything about me. 743 00:34:52,931 --> 00:34:56,081 And it was true for everyone who's, who suffered the 744 00:34:56,081 --> 00:34:57,071 pain that I gave them. 745 00:34:57,251 --> 00:35:00,041 The divine is inside of them as well, and 746 00:35:00,041 --> 00:35:01,871 so knows everything. 747 00:35:02,871 --> 00:35:06,446 And as I'm going through this I realized that the 748 00:35:06,446 --> 00:35:10,126 divine, cuz I had seen the infinity, I had seen the 749 00:35:10,126 --> 00:35:13,966 edge of infinity, the edge of the power of the divine. 750 00:35:13,966 --> 00:35:18,216 The almighty non-gendered, no religion immensity 751 00:35:18,221 --> 00:35:20,526 beyond human capacity for understanding. 752 00:35:20,886 --> 00:35:23,646 Immeasurably pure, immeasurably unlimited. 753 00:35:23,886 --> 00:35:27,126 And I could see my own limitation, my own impurity 754 00:35:27,126 --> 00:35:29,016 was showing me my human self. 755 00:35:29,196 --> 00:35:33,066 And I was ashamed not for what I had done, because it 756 00:35:33,066 --> 00:35:36,006 also showed me that I was only doing what humans do. 757 00:35:36,891 --> 00:35:38,421 This is how humans are. 758 00:35:38,721 --> 00:35:41,241 It's, you don't blame the wolf for killing the lamb 759 00:35:41,541 --> 00:35:43,971 when it's in the nature of the wolf to kill the lamb. 760 00:35:43,971 --> 00:35:45,231 It's just what it is. 761 00:35:45,651 --> 00:35:48,081 And human beings, it showed me all humanity. 762 00:35:48,321 --> 00:35:51,021 And that human beings were just this way. 763 00:35:51,021 --> 00:35:53,951 It's the way that we're designed and therefore 764 00:35:54,281 --> 00:35:57,371 there's this radical equality among all human beings. 765 00:35:57,671 --> 00:36:01,361 Because I could see my own limitation in comparison 766 00:36:01,631 --> 00:36:02,591 to the unlimited. 767 00:36:02,591 --> 00:36:06,371 In my shame, I felt shame, and I felt shame and guilt, 768 00:36:06,491 --> 00:36:08,561 not because of what I had done, which was terrible, 769 00:36:08,591 --> 00:36:10,601 not terrible things, but I had hurt people. 770 00:36:11,061 --> 00:36:14,146 But the real pain came in the comparison to the 771 00:36:14,146 --> 00:36:16,606 purity and the unlimited nature of the divine. 772 00:36:17,086 --> 00:36:20,476 So simultaneously, I saw the radical equality of all 773 00:36:20,476 --> 00:36:24,416 humanity and our brokenness toward each other, which 774 00:36:25,256 --> 00:36:29,686 in my own life now is translated into don't judge 775 00:36:29,686 --> 00:36:33,136 least you be judged to put it in Christian language. 776 00:36:33,296 --> 00:36:35,786 It's, I see the other human as broken as me, 777 00:36:35,906 --> 00:36:36,716 no matter who they are. 778 00:36:37,346 --> 00:36:40,116 And even if they're enemies in my life, and I, I've 779 00:36:40,116 --> 00:36:41,076 lived the professional life. 780 00:36:41,286 --> 00:36:43,566 You live a long enough, people don't like you no 781 00:36:43,566 --> 00:36:45,546 matter what you do, cuz you cross 'em the wrong way. 782 00:36:46,086 --> 00:36:50,026 And I even in the people who were out to get me, I could 783 00:36:50,026 --> 00:36:51,436 only see light inside them. 784 00:36:51,466 --> 00:36:53,176 Doesn't mean I, I liked what they were doing 785 00:36:53,181 --> 00:36:55,556 to me, but I couldn't help but see the light. 786 00:36:55,586 --> 00:36:58,346 So I see this radical equality of all of humanity. 787 00:36:59,066 --> 00:37:03,526 I saw this my own limitation, and I went into this hell 788 00:37:03,526 --> 00:37:06,586 of, I felt this separation from the unlimited. 789 00:37:06,886 --> 00:37:09,616 But meanwhile, this voice was saying to me 790 00:37:09,616 --> 00:37:11,576 the entire time welcome. 791 00:37:11,786 --> 00:37:12,386 I love you. 792 00:37:12,386 --> 00:37:13,496 I have always loved you. 793 00:37:13,496 --> 00:37:14,546 I've always known you. 794 00:37:14,696 --> 00:37:17,786 I have always loved you as you are, even as you 795 00:37:17,786 --> 00:37:19,196 did all of these things. 796 00:37:19,466 --> 00:37:21,926 I love you as you are. 797 00:37:22,166 --> 00:37:25,576 And as I began to listen with the ear of my heart through 798 00:37:25,576 --> 00:37:28,486 the lens of love, all the love I had given away in 799 00:37:28,486 --> 00:37:31,556 my life, all the love that I had accepted in my life, 800 00:37:31,856 --> 00:37:33,266 all was with me as well. 801 00:37:33,266 --> 00:37:36,446 And as I listened with my heart or the ear of my heart 802 00:37:36,506 --> 00:37:40,516 and heard this voice of mercy and forgiveness, I was, I 803 00:37:40,516 --> 00:37:46,176 turned toward it because it's it was like being, A crab on 804 00:37:46,176 --> 00:37:50,316 the beach as a hundred foot tidal wave sucks you right 805 00:37:50,316 --> 00:37:51,516 out and crashes down on you. 806 00:37:51,566 --> 00:37:55,226 There was no like, do I swim and survive? 807 00:37:55,506 --> 00:37:57,906 Or do I just, it's just gonna crash over me. 808 00:37:58,036 --> 00:37:59,681 The light was so powerful. 809 00:38:00,221 --> 00:38:04,091 The love was so powerful that it crashed over me and 810 00:38:04,091 --> 00:38:05,651 I had no resistance to it. 811 00:38:05,651 --> 00:38:09,041 Not that I wanted resistance to it, but the, but it was so 812 00:38:10,041 --> 00:38:15,726 overwhelmingly powerful that I didn't deserve its love. 813 00:38:16,326 --> 00:38:17,796 And it came anyway. 814 00:38:18,156 --> 00:38:21,401 And as I turned toward it, and I made this I don't 815 00:38:21,401 --> 00:38:24,311 wanna say choice to turn toward it because it was, I 816 00:38:24,311 --> 00:38:25,781 couldn't not turn toward it. 817 00:38:25,961 --> 00:38:28,331 It was too powerful, like that tidal wave. 818 00:38:28,331 --> 00:38:30,791 As I turned toward it, I was inflated. 819 00:38:31,091 --> 00:38:32,976 And as I suddenly I turned toward it. 820 00:38:33,156 --> 00:38:35,716 And now my soul self inflates and inflates and 821 00:38:35,716 --> 00:38:37,786 inflates, and I get bigger and bigger and bigger. 822 00:38:37,996 --> 00:38:40,926 And I'm infilled with beauty and love and truth, bliss 823 00:38:40,926 --> 00:38:46,366 joy, adoration, understanding, compassion, knowledge wisdom, 824 00:38:47,326 --> 00:38:54,676 mathematical comprehension, just brilliant awe and wonder. 825 00:38:54,676 --> 00:39:01,276 And I was expanded to the point of almost being folded 826 00:39:01,281 --> 00:39:03,706 back into the infinity itself. 827 00:39:03,946 --> 00:39:08,806 I came to this very edge where, one more drop of 828 00:39:08,806 --> 00:39:12,316 it and I would have become awareness itself again. 829 00:39:12,736 --> 00:39:17,346 So I entered into this state of union where I saw the 830 00:39:17,346 --> 00:39:23,946 truth of myself as a soul, and then I was deflated and I 831 00:39:23,946 --> 00:39:28,896 was somehow able to remember my recent life as Peter and 832 00:39:28,896 --> 00:39:32,856 I could see my parents, and I asked about their suffering. 833 00:39:32,856 --> 00:39:34,836 I said, cuz this voice is saying, come home. 834 00:39:34,836 --> 00:39:35,226 Come home. 835 00:39:35,226 --> 00:39:36,156 It's time for you to come home. 836 00:39:36,246 --> 00:39:37,086 You've seen all this stuff. 837 00:39:37,091 --> 00:39:38,376 Now come home to me. 838 00:39:38,946 --> 00:39:40,891 And I said what about my folks? 839 00:39:40,941 --> 00:39:41,301 They're. 840 00:39:41,646 --> 00:39:42,456 They're gonna suffer. 841 00:39:42,456 --> 00:39:46,446 And as I had this thought, I was swept across heaven. 842 00:39:46,446 --> 00:39:49,446 Now, heaven is not this from my, in my experience, 843 00:39:49,451 --> 00:39:50,376 it's this no thingness. 844 00:39:51,246 --> 00:39:54,306 And it's, it is not separate from this voice that's right 845 00:39:54,306 --> 00:39:55,596 next to me and inside of me. 846 00:39:55,776 --> 00:39:58,531 It is all of this, the divine is all of this. 847 00:39:58,561 --> 00:40:01,961 And it sweeps me across itself and it pokes my head 848 00:40:01,961 --> 00:40:05,586 out, it pokes my head out through the edge of heaven. 849 00:40:06,196 --> 00:40:07,966 Into our universe. 850 00:40:08,206 --> 00:40:10,906 And, but I don't have a head, remember I'm a non thing. 851 00:40:11,116 --> 00:40:14,866 And so I have a, I have an awareness outside of heaven 852 00:40:14,866 --> 00:40:18,566 while 99% of me is still embodied inside the divine. 853 00:40:19,126 --> 00:40:21,466 But I can see I'm being shown the universe. 854 00:40:21,556 --> 00:40:23,896 And as I'm being shown the universe, I see all 855 00:40:23,901 --> 00:40:26,806 of our universe, I see all of the galaxies up 856 00:40:26,806 --> 00:40:30,866 and down and just billions of galaxies and billions 857 00:40:30,866 --> 00:40:34,046 of stars and the space between them and my vision 858 00:40:34,046 --> 00:40:35,696 is directed to the origin. 859 00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:38,766 And so I'm looking at the origin of our universe 860 00:40:39,126 --> 00:40:43,426 and the origin of our universe is this Light that 861 00:40:43,431 --> 00:40:44,806 is pervading everything. 862 00:40:45,046 --> 00:40:47,806 So as this, as there's a darkness that I can't see 863 00:40:47,806 --> 00:40:51,736 into, but there's this light that's coming out of 864 00:40:51,736 --> 00:40:53,866 it and creating all matter. 865 00:40:54,076 --> 00:40:57,076 And as it creates all this matter, all of these galaxies, 866 00:40:57,256 --> 00:40:59,506 it is woven through all of it. 867 00:40:59,746 --> 00:41:00,436 There is light. 868 00:41:00,436 --> 00:41:02,236 I can see light inside all of it. 869 00:41:02,416 --> 00:41:04,546 The light is emanating from the darkness, and there's 870 00:41:04,546 --> 00:41:07,306 no part of the universe that is not made of this. 871 00:41:07,311 --> 00:41:08,896 It's not just stars and planets. 872 00:41:09,046 --> 00:41:11,086 It's all of the material that's in between. 873 00:41:11,206 --> 00:41:12,916 It's the dark matter and the dark energy. 874 00:41:12,976 --> 00:41:15,106 All of it's made of this divine light. 875 00:41:15,766 --> 00:41:19,186 And as it's showing me this, it's also showing the other 876 00:41:19,186 --> 00:41:21,981 universes universe, after universe, it's like always 877 00:41:21,981 --> 00:41:24,711 unfolding, even though as it's powering our universe, 878 00:41:24,801 --> 00:41:26,001 it's unfolding more and more. 879 00:41:26,191 --> 00:41:29,191 And it's all of it is all of these universes 880 00:41:29,371 --> 00:41:34,141 and our universes are just filled with the love 881 00:41:34,141 --> 00:41:35,941 that is incomprehensible. 882 00:41:36,061 --> 00:41:39,961 It's the whole thing is just all this love that 883 00:41:39,961 --> 00:41:42,691 creates all of it and all of this love that creates 884 00:41:42,691 --> 00:41:46,846 all of these universes is aimed right at me. 885 00:41:47,306 --> 00:41:49,916 It's like all of this love is aimed right at me. 886 00:41:49,916 --> 00:41:52,026 And I am the most beloved. 887 00:41:52,326 --> 00:41:55,596 And as I am the most beloved, it says to me, I and the 888 00:41:55,596 --> 00:41:58,386 way that I love you now, I have always loved you 889 00:41:58,686 --> 00:42:01,836 all is, was and shall be well, because of my love. 890 00:42:01,986 --> 00:42:04,236 And my love is as large as the universe. 891 00:42:04,356 --> 00:42:05,916 Larger than the universe is. 892 00:42:06,106 --> 00:42:06,856 And I am. 893 00:42:06,946 --> 00:42:08,356 I am in bliss. 894 00:42:08,746 --> 00:42:12,536 And as this is, as I'm experiencing this, my vision 895 00:42:12,536 --> 00:42:14,216 is shifted back to earth. 896 00:42:14,636 --> 00:42:17,601 And I, I down to our galaxy, down our solar system, and I 897 00:42:17,601 --> 00:42:18,981 can see earth like a hologram. 898 00:42:19,731 --> 00:42:23,121 And I see 7 billion people on it all at once. 899 00:42:23,151 --> 00:42:24,831 Not like A to B, to C to D. 900 00:42:24,981 --> 00:42:25,671 I can see. 901 00:42:26,271 --> 00:42:28,851 Everything all at once and inside of every, and 902 00:42:28,851 --> 00:42:30,511 it's dark, it's live time. 903 00:42:30,651 --> 00:42:32,871 So it's night on half the planet and daylight 904 00:42:32,871 --> 00:42:33,651 on half the planet. 905 00:42:33,651 --> 00:42:35,901 And there are ships at sea and airplanes in the sky, 906 00:42:35,931 --> 00:42:39,411 babies being born, and wars being waged and bank 907 00:42:39,416 --> 00:42:41,151 robberies and kind acts. 908 00:42:41,151 --> 00:42:42,141 Every I can see everything. 909 00:42:42,381 --> 00:42:46,101 And inside of every single human being, there is this 910 00:42:46,101 --> 00:42:47,841 golden fleck of light. 911 00:42:48,201 --> 00:42:51,231 And this golden fleck of light is inside of every, the 912 00:42:51,231 --> 00:42:53,061 heart of every human being. 913 00:42:53,061 --> 00:42:56,571 And nobody can see it because it's all, the whole planet is 914 00:42:56,571 --> 00:42:58,371 covered with this dense fog. 915 00:42:59,121 --> 00:43:03,211 And I can see it, I see this that everybody 916 00:43:03,211 --> 00:43:04,981 is as beloved as me. 917 00:43:05,281 --> 00:43:08,161 So this experience of this belovedness that I was the 918 00:43:08,221 --> 00:43:11,881 most beloved in the whole universe is the truth of 919 00:43:11,941 --> 00:43:16,411 every single person that all of us are the most beloved. 920 00:43:16,591 --> 00:43:21,531 And I see this as clearly as as I understand my own 921 00:43:21,591 --> 00:43:27,601 self and as I see this, I zoom into one person. 922 00:43:28,021 --> 00:43:30,831 I see this ship in the middle of the Atlantic, and 923 00:43:30,871 --> 00:43:33,991 I zoom inside, and I zoom down and I'm inside this 924 00:43:33,996 --> 00:43:35,571 ship, and I'm on this deck. 925 00:43:35,841 --> 00:43:38,481 I'm inside the ship and there's a guy there, and 926 00:43:38,486 --> 00:43:41,751 this guy, I can see this light inside his chest. 927 00:43:41,931 --> 00:43:42,891 He didn't see me. 928 00:43:43,131 --> 00:43:46,101 He's just doing, he is dressed in khaki clothes and doing 929 00:43:46,101 --> 00:43:47,481 his job, whatever it was. 930 00:43:47,691 --> 00:43:51,231 But I see inside him the very thing that's inside of me. 931 00:43:51,231 --> 00:43:52,761 And then I'm pulled back out again. 932 00:43:53,451 --> 00:43:57,696 And as I'm pulled back out again I understand that all 933 00:43:57,876 --> 00:44:01,956 is well and has been well, and will be well, and that because 934 00:44:01,956 --> 00:44:07,506 of this immense love, nothing and no one is ever lost. 935 00:44:08,016 --> 00:44:09,636 There's no lost. 936 00:44:09,846 --> 00:44:12,996 The divine is all there is, and the divine 937 00:44:12,996 --> 00:44:14,346 does not lose itself. 938 00:44:15,216 --> 00:44:17,776 And so I say, No. 939 00:44:17,776 --> 00:44:21,886 And so it shows me my parents' faces and suddenly I see my 940 00:44:21,886 --> 00:44:25,381 mom and my dad and all of the suffering that they had 941 00:44:25,386 --> 00:44:27,631 endured up until that day. 942 00:44:28,631 --> 00:44:32,366 And I, it's not like I see their pain and then I see 943 00:44:32,696 --> 00:44:34,526 these two parallel lives. 944 00:44:34,526 --> 00:44:36,726 I see mom and dad on this track, and mom and 945 00:44:36,726 --> 00:44:41,916 dad on this track and on track a I am not there. 946 00:44:42,606 --> 00:44:43,206 I die. 947 00:44:43,706 --> 00:44:46,946 And I see immense brokenness. 948 00:44:47,126 --> 00:44:49,906 Like the suffering they have now is 10 times worse. 949 00:44:50,296 --> 00:44:55,816 And then I see this other track, track B and I go back 950 00:44:56,146 --> 00:44:59,416 and I see they still have immense suffering, but not 951 00:44:59,416 --> 00:45:02,926 10 times the amount had I died and they'd lost a son. 952 00:45:03,406 --> 00:45:06,181 And then I see their deaths. 953 00:45:06,601 --> 00:45:09,721 Not how they die, but what happens to them after they 954 00:45:09,721 --> 00:45:11,731 die and after they die? 955 00:45:11,731 --> 00:45:14,941 They're just like me, most beloved. 956 00:45:15,241 --> 00:45:18,691 No pain, all healing, all wholeness, all 957 00:45:18,696 --> 00:45:22,511 wellness of all repaired. 958 00:45:23,291 --> 00:45:27,671 And the voice says, no matter what you choose, alls well. 959 00:45:28,671 --> 00:45:29,151 Pick. 960 00:45:30,151 --> 00:45:36,651 And so I think to myself, timelessness, I'm beloved. 961 00:45:37,651 --> 00:45:43,141 I say if I go back to help them not suffer this loss of 962 00:45:43,141 --> 00:45:47,421 a second child, can I come back here to this bliss of 963 00:45:47,931 --> 00:45:52,011 paradise and the voice says, yes, you can come back here. 964 00:45:52,011 --> 00:45:53,781 It's time for you to come home, but if you 965 00:45:53,781 --> 00:45:55,821 choose, you can go back and come back here. 966 00:45:56,181 --> 00:45:59,331 I say, I choose to live my life, and it says, 967 00:45:59,331 --> 00:46:02,031 you want live your life and flicks me out. 968 00:46:02,646 --> 00:46:03,546 And off I go. 969 00:46:03,546 --> 00:46:07,206 And now I'm once again encased inside this angelic being. 970 00:46:07,406 --> 00:46:09,241 And I'm getting denser and denser. 971 00:46:09,421 --> 00:46:11,251 I'm being flown out of heaven. 972 00:46:11,256 --> 00:46:14,371 And as I'm being flown out of heaven, I see 973 00:46:14,371 --> 00:46:18,211 this beam of white light emitting from heaven. 974 00:46:18,211 --> 00:46:21,931 This big, huge, like big, huge laser beam of white light. 975 00:46:22,061 --> 00:46:25,061 And it's next to me and I'm above it, and I'm being 976 00:46:25,061 --> 00:46:28,291 flown and in front of me it goes into this space. 977 00:46:28,346 --> 00:46:31,796 And then there are a million doors, and it's in the center 978 00:46:31,796 --> 00:46:32,996 of these million doors. 979 00:46:33,386 --> 00:46:36,666 And all of these million doors are darker and darker 980 00:46:36,666 --> 00:46:37,626 until they get to the edge. 981 00:46:37,626 --> 00:46:40,586 But brilliantly illuminated the doors closer to the 982 00:46:40,586 --> 00:46:45,656 middle and all of them are live, they're all timelines. 983 00:46:45,746 --> 00:46:48,836 And the voice says to me, choose light. 984 00:46:49,796 --> 00:46:50,696 But choose. 985 00:46:50,786 --> 00:46:54,416 And I have to choose which door I'm going to go in 986 00:46:54,686 --> 00:46:56,096 to get back to this body. 987 00:46:56,096 --> 00:47:00,176 And I choose light, but I choose self too. 988 00:47:00,776 --> 00:47:04,376 I think to myself, I know that I'm being sent back as 989 00:47:04,376 --> 00:47:07,676 a messenger, and I choose how can I be a messenger 990 00:47:07,676 --> 00:47:10,766 of light unless I have flaw, unless I'm a human 991 00:47:10,766 --> 00:47:12,056 being like everybody else. 992 00:47:12,236 --> 00:47:15,296 I, and I wanna be creative and I wanna be a little bit of a 993 00:47:15,296 --> 00:47:18,446 bohemian, and I wanna be this and that and the other thing. 994 00:47:18,626 --> 00:47:22,076 And I, and so I choose a door in an instant with 995 00:47:22,076 --> 00:47:23,486 these very rapid thoughts. 996 00:47:23,826 --> 00:47:26,046 And it's close to the light, but it's not 997 00:47:26,136 --> 00:47:27,336 in the direct beam. 998 00:47:27,336 --> 00:47:28,476 It's off to the side. 999 00:47:28,996 --> 00:47:31,306 And as soon as I make this choice, I'm in that door. 1000 00:47:31,576 --> 00:47:33,946 And as I'm in this door and I'm traveling down 1001 00:47:33,946 --> 00:47:35,536 this tunnel, still, inside this angelic 1002 00:47:35,536 --> 00:47:38,926 being, there are a million doors inside this tunnel. 1003 00:47:39,166 --> 00:47:41,596 And every one of these doors is a choice to make. 1004 00:47:41,956 --> 00:47:44,716 I can see all the choices and all of these doors lead 1005 00:47:44,716 --> 00:47:45,946 to all the other tunnels. 1006 00:47:46,711 --> 00:47:47,791 And I could see all of that. 1007 00:47:48,221 --> 00:47:51,251 And then I get to the end of my tunnel and there's my 1008 00:47:51,251 --> 00:47:52,781 body dangling on the cliff. 1009 00:47:53,061 --> 00:47:54,901 And I'm harnessed in and there's the body 1010 00:47:54,931 --> 00:47:55,741 only, it's not me. 1011 00:47:55,771 --> 00:47:56,251 I don't know. 1012 00:47:56,371 --> 00:47:57,391 There's some body there. 1013 00:47:57,731 --> 00:47:59,976 And it's harnessed in and it's hanging off the cliff. 1014 00:48:00,126 --> 00:48:04,536 And then I am taken out of this angelic being and 1015 00:48:04,536 --> 00:48:08,166 stabbed into the center of the, my, this body's chest 1016 00:48:08,376 --> 00:48:10,206 and screwed in painfully. 1017 00:48:10,276 --> 00:48:14,176 And it opens and I'm poured shoved, stuffed inside, and 1018 00:48:14,176 --> 00:48:17,236 now I'm inside this physical form and there's a, there's 1019 00:48:17,236 --> 00:48:20,376 this little opening and I can see out this little opening 1020 00:48:20,376 --> 00:48:21,486 that's in the heart of this. 1021 00:48:21,846 --> 00:48:25,056 And I can see the white light going back into heaven. 1022 00:48:25,061 --> 00:48:28,446 I can see the darkness, I can see the angelic being, 1023 00:48:28,446 --> 00:48:29,466 and then it just closes. 1024 00:48:30,466 --> 00:48:32,711 And now ah, I'm imprisoned. 1025 00:48:33,191 --> 00:48:35,681 I'm in I'm imprisoned and I'm exiled. 1026 00:48:35,841 --> 00:48:38,181 And my, the brain, that's cuz that's not me. 1027 00:48:38,361 --> 00:48:41,921 The brain comes back online whirrs and a boots up again. 1028 00:48:41,921 --> 00:48:44,621 And all this flash of pain, this physical pain 1029 00:48:44,621 --> 00:48:46,391 that I didn't understand was like, what is this 1030 00:48:46,781 --> 00:48:48,881 painful thing that I don't understand anymore? 1031 00:48:49,031 --> 00:48:50,651 Cuz when I was dead, pain was forgotten. 1032 00:48:51,041 --> 00:48:52,331 It was like, didn't exist. 1033 00:48:52,811 --> 00:48:55,601 And now I'm in this painful body and I'm beginning 1034 00:48:55,601 --> 00:48:58,151 to hear things and sound comes back and they're 1035 00:48:58,151 --> 00:49:02,266 screaming and yelling and my resolves into language. 1036 00:49:02,316 --> 00:49:03,506 And I hear, don't die. 1037 00:49:03,686 --> 00:49:08,566 And this thing is jostling and I opened the eyes and there's 1038 00:49:09,091 --> 00:49:11,281 this face looking at me screaming and yelling at me. 1039 00:49:11,281 --> 00:49:11,641 Don't die. 1040 00:49:11,641 --> 00:49:11,911 Don't die. 1041 00:49:11,911 --> 00:49:13,336 And he's sees my eyes are open. 1042 00:49:13,336 --> 00:49:13,966 You're not dead. 1043 00:49:14,206 --> 00:49:15,166 You, I thought you were dead. 1044 00:49:15,346 --> 00:49:15,886 You were dead. 1045 00:49:15,886 --> 00:49:16,606 You, I thought you were dead. 1046 00:49:16,886 --> 00:49:18,986 And he pulls me up and he's yelling at me 1047 00:49:18,986 --> 00:49:19,676 and screaming at me. 1048 00:49:19,676 --> 00:49:21,116 And I don't know, I don't know who I am. 1049 00:49:21,416 --> 00:49:22,376 I don't know where I am. 1050 00:49:22,376 --> 00:49:23,366 I don't know who he is. 1051 00:49:23,666 --> 00:49:25,316 I'm completely lost. 1052 00:49:25,586 --> 00:49:28,766 And as he's talking to me, the brain sort of warms up. 1053 00:49:28,766 --> 00:49:29,251 And I was like, oh yeah. 1054 00:49:29,541 --> 00:49:31,521 I'm ice climbing and this is Tim. 1055 00:49:31,521 --> 00:49:34,041 And I'm Peter, and what is going, who am I? 1056 00:49:34,046 --> 00:49:35,931 What is this thing I'm stuck inside of? 1057 00:49:36,051 --> 00:49:37,161 And now I'm two people. 1058 00:49:37,461 --> 00:49:39,581 I'm the one that he the human being, but 1059 00:49:39,581 --> 00:49:42,611 I am this other entity occupying the human being. 1060 00:49:43,611 --> 00:49:46,251 And at some point he's pull the rope. 1061 00:49:46,251 --> 00:49:48,021 And I pull the rope and it comes free. 1062 00:49:48,021 --> 00:49:52,041 And we descend and we self-treat in the tent for 1063 00:49:52,041 --> 00:49:53,421 hypothermia and frostbite. 1064 00:49:53,921 --> 00:49:55,301 And the story goes on from there. 1065 00:49:55,306 --> 00:49:59,511 I, it was, We got, we spent a little time in jail. 1066 00:49:59,811 --> 00:50:01,921 We totaled the car. 1067 00:50:02,191 --> 00:50:03,931 All of this on the way home, just all terrible 1068 00:50:03,931 --> 00:50:04,681 things happened. 1069 00:50:04,681 --> 00:50:10,271 I ended up with a stutter and I was a new person. 1070 00:50:10,751 --> 00:50:13,211 I was not the same person I was before, and I've never 1071 00:50:13,211 --> 00:50:15,041 been since I came back. 1072 00:50:15,551 --> 00:50:19,451 I feel like I an alien inhabiting a life form. 1073 00:50:19,931 --> 00:50:23,471 I was mostly in heaven and I was looking out these 1074 00:50:23,471 --> 00:50:29,231 eyes and I was living inside this crude machine that I 1075 00:50:29,231 --> 00:50:33,641 was imprisoned inside of a and everything from that 1076 00:50:33,641 --> 00:50:37,631 point on, I was an entirely an am different person. 1077 00:50:38,631 --> 00:50:40,431 That's an astounding story, Peter. 1078 00:50:40,911 --> 00:50:45,141 So how long was it before you felt like you were able 1079 00:50:45,146 --> 00:50:47,171 to, were you willing to share that story with other 1080 00:50:47,171 --> 00:50:49,931 people, say to your friend Tim or any of your family? 1081 00:50:50,396 --> 00:50:51,476 I never told him. 1082 00:50:51,896 --> 00:50:52,946 I never told anybody. 1083 00:50:53,426 --> 00:50:53,846 I didn't tell. 1084 00:50:53,996 --> 00:50:57,836 I told my wife on the morning after we got married. 1085 00:50:58,336 --> 00:51:00,556 But I kept it a secret for 20 years. 1086 00:51:01,156 --> 00:51:05,036 I didn't tell anybody because I knew enough that 1087 00:51:05,536 --> 00:51:08,686 I knew enough that I didn't want to be mistaken to be 1088 00:51:08,686 --> 00:51:13,646 insane, and so I masked, I changed my career. 1089 00:51:13,986 --> 00:51:16,171 My sister was in graduate school in architecture 1090 00:51:16,171 --> 00:51:16,771 at this point. 1091 00:51:17,071 --> 00:51:19,201 My dad had a firm outside of Boston and 1092 00:51:19,681 --> 00:51:21,001 was a pretty fancy guy. 1093 00:51:21,031 --> 00:51:23,646 And I was gonna be an architect my whole life. 1094 00:51:23,646 --> 00:51:24,366 My whole life. 1095 00:51:24,366 --> 00:51:25,236 I was gonna be an architect. 1096 00:51:25,376 --> 00:51:28,366 I was pushing a pencil of the drafting board and why are 1097 00:51:28,366 --> 00:51:29,326 you being an English major? 1098 00:51:29,326 --> 00:51:29,986 How's I gonna help you? 1099 00:51:29,986 --> 00:51:31,276 I was like, I'll write about it. 1100 00:51:31,666 --> 00:51:34,316 And doing, drafting for my dad and stuff my whole life 1101 00:51:34,316 --> 00:51:36,326 and working in construction swinging a hammer all the 1102 00:51:36,326 --> 00:51:38,846 summers, cutting a board and building houses so 1103 00:51:38,846 --> 00:51:40,706 I could learn from the inside out, all that stuff. 1104 00:51:40,796 --> 00:51:44,596 And then suddenly I came home and I'm not doing that. 1105 00:51:44,956 --> 00:51:47,716 And so I went to divinity school cuz I 1106 00:51:47,716 --> 00:51:48,316 didn't know what to do. 1107 00:51:48,316 --> 00:51:51,166 I needed to study mysticism and I'd had enough cuz 1108 00:51:51,166 --> 00:51:52,066 I was an English major. 1109 00:51:52,486 --> 00:51:55,006 I'd read about he, Henry David Thoreau and Ralph 1110 00:51:55,006 --> 00:51:58,246 Waldo Emerson, the Romantics and the Transcendentalists 1111 00:51:58,576 --> 00:52:00,136 who were spiritual people. 1112 00:52:00,796 --> 00:52:03,436 And so I knew about the Upanishads and the Vedas 1113 00:52:03,441 --> 00:52:04,396 through those folks. 1114 00:52:04,666 --> 00:52:07,666 And so I decided that I had to, I needed to find a 1115 00:52:07,671 --> 00:52:10,726 peer group, but I needed to do it in such a way that I 1116 00:52:10,726 --> 00:52:13,576 didn't, that nobody would know that I was doing this. 1117 00:52:14,116 --> 00:52:16,486 So I went to Divinity, I went to Yale Divinity School 1118 00:52:16,486 --> 00:52:20,026 and I studied mysticism and I learned contemplation 1119 00:52:20,026 --> 00:52:23,736 techniques and came across Paramhansa Yogananda, and 1120 00:52:23,736 --> 00:52:25,456 the Yoga Sutras by Patanjali. 1121 00:52:25,476 --> 00:52:30,316 And I incorporated Kriya yoga into my meditation life. 1122 00:52:30,466 --> 00:52:33,646 And I practiced Hatha yoga and Kriya yoga in combination. 1123 00:52:33,826 --> 00:52:35,476 And I did that on the down low. 1124 00:52:36,146 --> 00:52:38,006 People knew that I was practicing cuz they could 1125 00:52:38,006 --> 00:52:39,716 see me standing on my head, but they didn't 1126 00:52:39,716 --> 00:52:41,546 know what I was doing with my breath and my mind. 1127 00:52:41,906 --> 00:52:46,526 I, I chose to, I was in such despair. 1128 00:52:46,946 --> 00:52:51,061 I was in darkness living in this hell hole of beauty. 1129 00:52:51,066 --> 00:52:52,561 There's a lot of beauty here and a lot of good 1130 00:52:52,561 --> 00:52:56,241 things, but it's like hell compared to heaven and 1131 00:52:56,631 --> 00:52:58,221 full of suffering and pain. 1132 00:52:58,221 --> 00:53:00,561 And I, all I wanted to do was go back. 1133 00:53:01,221 --> 00:53:04,801 And I discovered in my studies that there's a long history 1134 00:53:04,801 --> 00:53:08,521 of mystics in the world and some of them were high masters 1135 00:53:08,881 --> 00:53:11,731 and they had techniques of breath and mental focus 1136 00:53:12,091 --> 00:53:13,891 that reconnected them. 1137 00:53:14,706 --> 00:53:17,176 Or connected them to the divine presence. 1138 00:53:17,176 --> 00:53:20,476 And so I went in pursuit of that and I kept that a secret. 1139 00:53:20,506 --> 00:53:22,906 So I didn't tell, I didn't tell anybody. 1140 00:53:22,906 --> 00:53:24,196 I hid inside the church. 1141 00:53:24,316 --> 00:53:26,176 I got talked into becoming a minister. 1142 00:53:26,356 --> 00:53:28,816 I was gonna go for a graduate degree and study 1143 00:53:28,816 --> 00:53:30,226 mysticism for a doctorate. 1144 00:53:30,716 --> 00:53:33,206 But I, the dean of students who let me do this three year 1145 00:53:33,206 --> 00:53:37,026 independent study at Yale as my mentor who I also didn't 1146 00:53:37,026 --> 00:53:39,486 tell anything about what was going really going on. 1147 00:53:40,006 --> 00:53:41,656 She talked to me into becoming a minister and 1148 00:53:41,661 --> 00:53:43,786 I decided that I could hide inside the church. 1149 00:53:44,416 --> 00:53:47,206 And so I hid inside the church for 20 years and 1150 00:53:47,686 --> 00:53:48,826 continued my studies. 1151 00:53:48,826 --> 00:53:50,771 I read all of the Nag Hammadi texts and all 1152 00:53:50,771 --> 00:53:52,001 the Dead Sea Scrolls. 1153 00:53:52,001 --> 00:53:53,801 And I did a lot of research and I dove 1154 00:53:53,801 --> 00:53:54,731 deep into my practice. 1155 00:53:54,821 --> 00:53:56,921 I even had in my church contract that they had to 1156 00:53:56,921 --> 00:53:58,181 let me meditate and do yoga. 1157 00:53:58,421 --> 00:53:59,441 And they're like, why are you doing this? 1158 00:53:59,441 --> 00:54:00,916 I'm like, I don't, you don't let me do this, 1159 00:54:00,916 --> 00:54:01,696 I can't do the job. 1160 00:54:02,326 --> 00:54:04,396 And and I did a lot of social services 1161 00:54:04,566 --> 00:54:05,646 helped a lot of people. 1162 00:54:06,646 --> 00:54:08,446 But it wasn't, there was this huge embezzlement 1163 00:54:08,446 --> 00:54:10,306 in this church that I was serving, and it was after 1164 00:54:10,306 --> 00:54:12,286 that embezzlement, after they tried to destroy my 1165 00:54:12,286 --> 00:54:14,626 career, cuz we, we were finding out the truth and 1166 00:54:14,631 --> 00:54:15,976 there people went to prison. 1167 00:54:16,456 --> 00:54:17,716 So they tried to ruin me. 1168 00:54:18,316 --> 00:54:21,776 But when it was all over, I finally decided it was time 1169 00:54:21,776 --> 00:54:25,166 to tell the congregation and the town why I was able to 1170 00:54:25,166 --> 00:54:27,296 put up with all the terrible things they did to me for 1171 00:54:27,296 --> 00:54:29,966 all the years that they did because they the deacons 1172 00:54:29,966 --> 00:54:32,546 asked me, he must have had a lot of faith to put up with 1173 00:54:32,546 --> 00:54:33,626 all that we put you through. 1174 00:54:34,286 --> 00:54:36,386 I was like, I don't have any faith at all. 1175 00:54:36,506 --> 00:54:39,236 I'm not a believer, I don't believe in any of this stuff. 1176 00:54:39,726 --> 00:54:42,306 I know what the divine is. 1177 00:54:42,606 --> 00:54:44,226 I know that I am beloved. 1178 00:54:44,406 --> 00:54:45,816 I know it is my beloved. 1179 00:54:46,206 --> 00:54:48,126 And so that's where my strength comes from. 1180 00:54:48,756 --> 00:54:52,381 So it, even though I kept it a secret and didn't 1181 00:54:52,381 --> 00:54:56,401 tell anybody, it was pretty obvious to everybody that I 1182 00:54:56,401 --> 00:54:57,931 was some kind of eccentric. 1183 00:54:58,471 --> 00:55:01,831 It's like I was making choices and doing things that other 1184 00:55:01,831 --> 00:55:02,821 people just wouldn't do. 1185 00:55:02,821 --> 00:55:04,141 Certainly not clergy people. 1186 00:55:05,141 --> 00:55:06,141 Yeah, that's pretty common. 1187 00:55:06,141 --> 00:55:08,471 There's a lot of people that one, once they've had a near 1188 00:55:08,471 --> 00:55:12,231 death experience, they know what they know, and they 1189 00:55:12,231 --> 00:55:14,961 know that it's gonna be odd or eccentric to many people 1190 00:55:14,966 --> 00:55:15,831 and they just don't care. 1191 00:55:16,521 --> 00:55:18,291 That's really the only way you can deal with it, I think. 1192 00:55:18,741 --> 00:55:20,921 So I assume that you told your wife first and then 1193 00:55:20,921 --> 00:55:21,941 it was the congregation? 1194 00:55:21,941 --> 00:55:24,791 I told my wife the day after we got married when 1195 00:55:24,791 --> 00:55:27,761 I was still in divinity school, and then I told the 1196 00:55:27,761 --> 00:55:30,561 congregation 18 years later, 1197 00:55:31,191 --> 00:55:32,661 and then I didn't tell anybody in between. 1198 00:55:32,661 --> 00:55:36,341 I told one guy two, I told my best friend and I told this 1199 00:55:36,341 --> 00:55:37,901 guy who saw this thing happen. 1200 00:55:38,261 --> 00:55:40,571 One of those after effects that I had to explain to him 1201 00:55:40,571 --> 00:55:42,641 because it was too crazy. 1202 00:55:42,701 --> 00:55:44,761 And he is what was that like? 1203 00:55:45,331 --> 00:55:46,561 Okay, I gotta tell you what happened. 1204 00:55:47,131 --> 00:55:49,381 So I told the congregation after 20 years, and 1205 00:55:49,381 --> 00:55:53,461 then after I did this in my town that week, six 1206 00:55:53,521 --> 00:55:54,421 people came up to me. 1207 00:55:55,191 --> 00:55:57,591 The woman who owns the fish fry, the woman who is the 1208 00:55:57,621 --> 00:56:00,541 physical therapist, the the woman who was a nurse and all 1209 00:56:00,751 --> 00:56:03,151 three or four other people in there, they whispered to me. 1210 00:56:03,961 --> 00:56:05,131 We heard what happened to you. 1211 00:56:06,131 --> 00:56:07,121 That happened to me too. 1212 00:56:08,121 --> 00:56:09,111 Don't tell anybody. 1213 00:56:09,391 --> 00:56:11,901 And because there was all this shame. 1214 00:56:11,901 --> 00:56:15,681 This was back in 20 years ago now, when near, near-death 1215 00:56:15,681 --> 00:56:17,271 experience was still unknown. 1216 00:56:17,841 --> 00:56:20,931 And I was now out of the closet with it. 1217 00:56:21,921 --> 00:56:23,751 And which freed me because I didn't have 1218 00:56:23,751 --> 00:56:24,441 to hide it anymore. 1219 00:56:24,441 --> 00:56:26,241 I was walking around masking all the time. 1220 00:56:26,781 --> 00:56:28,631 Pretending, pretending I was a believer. 1221 00:56:28,631 --> 00:56:30,601 That was the whole, that was like the fundamental 1222 00:56:30,601 --> 00:56:31,561 thing of the job. 1223 00:56:31,591 --> 00:56:33,301 You gotta be a minister, you gotta be a believer, 1224 00:56:33,301 --> 00:56:34,291 but I'm not a believer. 1225 00:56:34,341 --> 00:56:36,421 I was like, okay, so I don't have to hide that anymore. 1226 00:56:36,871 --> 00:56:39,931 And then I got recruited into television and I 1227 00:56:39,931 --> 00:56:44,091 started working on local broadcast on two stations 1228 00:56:44,091 --> 00:56:46,751 all across our state and part of another state. 1229 00:56:46,751 --> 00:56:48,551 And I started working nationally out 1230 00:56:48,556 --> 00:56:49,451 in New York City. 1231 00:56:49,871 --> 00:56:52,781 And those people able, the TV people I was working 1232 00:56:52,781 --> 00:56:56,111 with there found out about my NDE cuz I got drunk 1233 00:56:56,116 --> 00:56:56,951 one night and I told them. 1234 00:56:57,281 --> 00:56:59,261 We were all out at this party and we're all drinking. 1235 00:56:59,261 --> 00:57:01,211 I'm like then this thing happened to me. 1236 00:57:01,211 --> 00:57:02,111 I was like, oh God. 1237 00:57:02,441 --> 00:57:06,371 And they talked me into writing a book and 1238 00:57:06,761 --> 00:57:08,081 becoming public about it. 1239 00:57:08,081 --> 00:57:08,861 And that was that. 1240 00:57:09,001 --> 00:57:11,401 I don't have one of the after effects of my 1241 00:57:11,401 --> 00:57:14,191 near-death experience is I'm pretty fearless about 1242 00:57:14,581 --> 00:57:15,451 I know where I'm from. 1243 00:57:15,451 --> 00:57:16,141 I know where I'm going. 1244 00:57:16,271 --> 00:57:17,291 You can't kill me. 1245 00:57:17,921 --> 00:57:18,941 I've been held at gunpoint. 1246 00:57:18,941 --> 00:57:21,101 I've been shot at, there's been, I've been involved 1247 00:57:21,101 --> 00:57:22,841 in arsons and murders and all sorts of crazy 1248 00:57:22,841 --> 00:57:23,681 stuff in my ministry. 1249 00:57:23,801 --> 00:57:25,741 That's what I mean when eccentric stuff. 1250 00:57:26,011 --> 00:57:29,101 I was like doing things that I didn't mean to do, but I 1251 00:57:29,101 --> 00:57:30,211 found myself in the middle of. 1252 00:57:30,901 --> 00:57:38,421 And, but coming out of the closet back in 2015 risking 1253 00:57:38,421 --> 00:57:41,381 ridicule and my career. 1254 00:57:42,381 --> 00:57:46,161 I I was nervous about that, but I did it anyway 1255 00:57:46,311 --> 00:57:48,741 cuz every, because I can't help but trust. 1256 00:57:49,071 --> 00:57:51,801 I can't all, it's trust it with a capital T. 1257 00:57:51,861 --> 00:57:54,591 All I do is trust this divine, everything that I 1258 00:57:54,591 --> 00:57:58,731 do, strip away myself, trust the Divine's presence, try to 1259 00:57:58,731 --> 00:58:01,601 stand in the crystal stream, try to get out of the way and 1260 00:58:01,601 --> 00:58:03,791 clear out the boulders that are in the way of the flow 1261 00:58:04,241 --> 00:58:08,711 and let it be what it is so that I can be with it as I am. 1262 00:58:09,711 --> 00:58:14,501 And so I came out and then I, so I'm in the hospital bed. 1263 00:58:14,841 --> 00:58:20,456 I had, in 2015, I was running 5K every day. 1264 00:58:21,371 --> 00:58:23,801 And one day, yeah, I don't feel so great. 1265 00:58:24,311 --> 00:58:26,111 The next day I go to yoga class and I'm in 1266 00:58:26,111 --> 00:58:28,841 yoga class and I was like, I don't feel good. 1267 00:58:28,846 --> 00:58:29,836 And I have a heart attack. 1268 00:58:30,166 --> 00:58:31,456 I have a heart attack in class. 1269 00:58:31,886 --> 00:58:35,066 I die in the ambulance on the way and I choose 1270 00:58:35,066 --> 00:58:37,526 to come back again this time for my granddaughter. 1271 00:58:38,096 --> 00:58:39,986 And so I was in and I had a lot of damage. 1272 00:58:40,036 --> 00:58:40,846 I live very far. 1273 00:58:40,846 --> 00:58:43,996 I live in a rural area and I live an hour and a half away 1274 00:58:43,996 --> 00:58:45,346 from the catheterization lab. 1275 00:58:45,556 --> 00:58:49,486 And by the time I even left the local urgent care center 1276 00:58:49,576 --> 00:58:51,676 to get in the ambulance to go to the catheterization 1277 00:58:51,676 --> 00:58:53,506 lab, my golden hour was up. 1278 00:58:54,226 --> 00:58:56,416 And then you only get one hour before damage 1279 00:58:56,416 --> 00:58:57,226 starts setting in. 1280 00:58:57,226 --> 00:58:59,926 And so the doc had told my family that I was 1281 00:58:59,926 --> 00:59:00,886 gonna die on the way. 1282 00:59:01,726 --> 00:59:02,776 There was nothing to be done. 1283 00:59:03,706 --> 00:59:04,336 And I did. 1284 00:59:05,116 --> 00:59:08,876 And I chose to come back for my granddaughter this time and 1285 00:59:08,876 --> 00:59:10,166 then I'm in the hospital bed. 1286 00:59:10,541 --> 00:59:13,241 And the next day, I, a bunch of my friends are there and 1287 00:59:13,241 --> 00:59:16,241 my wife and my kids, and I was like, I died yesterday. 1288 00:59:16,871 --> 00:59:19,691 And and then the TV station was purchased 1289 00:59:19,691 --> 00:59:22,271 by another corporation and my job got canceled. 1290 00:59:22,511 --> 00:59:24,901 They told me, you got a year and your job, you're done. 1291 00:59:25,081 --> 00:59:26,701 Which we, and the show that I was on. 1292 00:59:26,701 --> 00:59:26,911 Okay. 1293 00:59:26,911 --> 00:59:29,971 The other thing about this show is 91 years old when it 1294 00:59:29,976 --> 00:59:34,591 ended, I was the fifth guy and it started on AM radio and it 1295 00:59:34,591 --> 00:59:38,041 was a, it was an institution in northern New England where 1296 00:59:38,041 --> 00:59:40,081 I live, beloved institution. 1297 00:59:40,291 --> 00:59:43,081 And I had two minutes every morning on these two stations 1298 00:59:43,081 --> 00:59:47,491 to tell an inspirational story of love and hope, which I 1299 00:59:47,491 --> 00:59:51,691 did thousands of times, news stories and then my job was, 1300 00:59:51,691 --> 00:59:53,131 they're like, you, it's over. 1301 00:59:53,141 --> 00:59:56,471 And now I'm a new person again. 1302 00:59:56,471 --> 00:59:58,691 Every time I have a mystical experience, a near-death 1303 00:59:58,691 --> 01:00:01,661 experience, I become back a different person more 1304 01:00:02,361 --> 01:00:05,171 intensely, my true self. 1305 01:00:05,651 --> 01:00:09,116 And so after this second NDE that had been, I don't 1306 01:00:09,186 --> 01:00:12,586 know, pre prepped, I was prepped for it by a series 1307 01:00:12,591 --> 01:00:15,106 of previous mystical experiences in between 1308 01:00:15,556 --> 01:00:16,966 these two major things. 1309 01:00:17,966 --> 01:00:20,931 And I decided I was finally all in and I 1310 01:00:20,931 --> 01:00:24,541 was just gonna spend the rest of my life working. 1311 01:00:24,541 --> 01:00:27,511 I'd already been spending my life working for God, for the 1312 01:00:27,511 --> 01:00:30,591 Allah, for the, for Brahman, whatever you wanna call it. 1313 01:00:31,551 --> 01:00:33,471 But now I'm gonna do it in a very public way. 1314 01:00:34,471 --> 01:00:35,971 And so that's what I'm doing. 1315 01:00:35,976 --> 01:00:39,781 I'm trying my best to get other near-death experiencers 1316 01:00:40,261 --> 01:00:43,621 to have the courage to tell somebody or to talk about 1317 01:00:43,621 --> 01:00:47,436 it in public because there are tens of millions of us 1318 01:00:47,736 --> 01:00:51,696 because after cardiac care came online in the 1960s and 1319 01:00:51,701 --> 01:00:54,786 they started resuscitating people and urgent care 1320 01:00:54,786 --> 01:00:57,066 centers and hospitals and surgeries and ambulances, 1321 01:00:57,066 --> 01:00:59,206 and now at corporations they've got paddles at 1322 01:00:59,226 --> 01:01:00,726 corporations and in schools. 1323 01:01:00,906 --> 01:01:04,566 There are tens of millions of Americans who are estimated 1324 01:01:04,566 --> 01:01:08,806 400 million near-death experiences worldwide. 1325 01:01:09,496 --> 01:01:14,986 And we are a phenomenon and we're quiet cuz we, nobody 1326 01:01:14,986 --> 01:01:15,586 wants to tell anybody. 1327 01:01:15,586 --> 01:01:17,536 Nobody wants to be, it's crazy man. 1328 01:01:17,536 --> 01:01:20,321 This guy, he's he's, he sounds like a kook. 1329 01:01:20,651 --> 01:01:23,151 Which is why I kept it a secret because I come from 1330 01:01:23,151 --> 01:01:27,021 a very educated, highly intellectual family that is.. 1331 01:01:27,951 --> 01:01:29,961 they were faithful people, they all went to church, 1332 01:01:30,171 --> 01:01:34,531 but none of them, they, knew that it was crazy talk. 1333 01:01:34,801 --> 01:01:37,261 So I kept my mouth shut until I couldn't 1334 01:01:37,261 --> 01:01:38,281 keep it shut anymore. 1335 01:01:38,286 --> 01:01:40,951 And now there are so many books and movies and 1336 01:01:40,956 --> 01:01:42,801 podcasts and articles. 1337 01:01:42,806 --> 01:01:45,491 I haven't seen the latest Marvel movie with guardians 1338 01:01:45,491 --> 01:01:47,021 of the Galaxy Volume Three. 1339 01:01:47,021 --> 01:01:49,631 But apparently Rocket has a near-death experience. 1340 01:01:49,791 --> 01:01:52,501 I'm gonna see this movie cuz apparently this raccoon 1341 01:01:52,501 --> 01:01:53,881 character, he has an NDE. 1342 01:01:54,631 --> 01:01:56,166 I probably just ruined that for all of you 1343 01:01:56,466 --> 01:01:59,496 but but it's becoming, I wanna see it talked about 1344 01:01:59,496 --> 01:02:01,146 in the public square, which is why I'm doing 1345 01:02:01,146 --> 01:02:02,046 it in the public square. 1346 01:02:02,226 --> 01:02:04,446 Cuz the more of us that talk about it, the more 1347 01:02:04,446 --> 01:02:05,616 it gets normalized. 1348 01:02:06,381 --> 01:02:08,421 And the more it gets normalized, the more we can 1349 01:02:08,421 --> 01:02:10,941 talk about other people's mystical experiences. 1350 01:02:11,091 --> 01:02:12,401 Cuz they're not just NDE'ers. 1351 01:02:12,561 --> 01:02:14,271 All sorts of people have mystical experiences. 1352 01:02:14,271 --> 01:02:16,071 They have visitations from the dead that 1353 01:02:16,071 --> 01:02:17,331 Jesus shows up for them. 1354 01:02:17,336 --> 01:02:18,171 Buddha shows up. 1355 01:02:18,221 --> 01:02:19,481 There's a divine being. 1356 01:02:19,511 --> 01:02:21,611 They have a transformative, mystical experience 1357 01:02:21,821 --> 01:02:23,471 that sets them on a new course in their life. 1358 01:02:23,471 --> 01:02:26,111 And they keep it a secret because it's a shameful thing. 1359 01:02:26,291 --> 01:02:27,581 Cause it's not rational. 1360 01:02:28,451 --> 01:02:32,201 And I want it to be spoken of in the public square 1361 01:02:32,201 --> 01:02:34,811 because I think that we have an opportunity for the 1362 01:02:34,816 --> 01:02:38,621 first time in the history of the planet to nudge 1363 01:02:38,861 --> 01:02:41,171 humanity in a new way. 1364 01:02:41,391 --> 01:02:43,691 There have always been near-death experiencers. 1365 01:02:43,991 --> 01:02:48,351 There's, the Bible has a at least 5, 7, 8 of them 1366 01:02:48,351 --> 01:02:50,801 if you count Jesus maybe even nine if you count him. 1367 01:02:51,231 --> 01:02:53,121 All people being raised from the dead. 1368 01:02:53,611 --> 01:02:55,211 There have always been near-death experiencers, 1369 01:02:55,216 --> 01:02:58,121 but now we're hundreds of millions of us. 1370 01:02:58,271 --> 01:03:00,581 We have an opportunity to be influential. 1371 01:03:00,791 --> 01:03:03,831 And the two words, there was this study that was a whole 1372 01:03:03,831 --> 01:03:06,621 series of essays were written two years ago for a million 1373 01:03:06,626 --> 01:03:11,301 dollars in prizes hosted by the Bigelow Institute 1374 01:03:11,301 --> 01:03:12,801 for Consciousness Studies. 1375 01:03:13,371 --> 01:03:15,291 And the grand prize winner was a, like a 1376 01:03:15,296 --> 01:03:16,521 half a million dollars. 1377 01:03:16,851 --> 01:03:19,741 But in one of these essays that I read the research 1378 01:03:19,741 --> 01:03:25,531 project showed that 70% of all near-death experiencers 1379 01:03:25,681 --> 01:03:30,421 favor two words about their experience, love and light. 1380 01:03:30,901 --> 01:03:32,731 70%, no matter who they are. 1381 01:03:33,151 --> 01:03:38,131 And this is a phenomenal non sectarian change. 1382 01:03:38,181 --> 01:03:39,801 It doesn't have anything to do with religion. 1383 01:03:40,371 --> 01:03:43,551 It has to do with the transformation of individual 1384 01:03:43,556 --> 01:03:47,691 human hearts expressed in their own lives. 1385 01:03:47,941 --> 01:03:52,436 And in if there are 400 million of us in 400 million 1386 01:03:52,436 --> 01:03:56,606 different ways, cuz there are 400 million different DNA 1387 01:03:56,606 --> 01:04:01,136 packages, by the way, we share 99% of our dna by the way. 1388 01:04:01,646 --> 01:04:04,436 So we're, we are so much more alike than we are separate. 1389 01:04:04,766 --> 01:04:06,656 This 1% is what separates us. 1390 01:04:07,076 --> 01:04:10,476 But there are 400 million near death experiencers, 1391 01:04:10,756 --> 01:04:14,726 all with their individual experience, all knowing at the 1392 01:04:14,726 --> 01:04:18,876 very least that consciousness doesn't arise in the body, 1393 01:04:19,056 --> 01:04:20,406 that it inhabits the body. 1394 01:04:20,906 --> 01:04:22,646 When I first started this channel, I just, 1395 01:04:22,676 --> 01:04:24,296 when I saw one of these interviews, I thought, Oh 1396 01:04:24,296 --> 01:04:25,226 that's what I need to do. 1397 01:04:25,256 --> 01:04:26,966 I didn't really have an inkling of why. 1398 01:04:27,236 --> 01:04:28,646 I just knew that's what I needed to do. 1399 01:04:28,696 --> 01:04:31,096 And it's interesting, every conversation I have and yours 1400 01:04:31,096 --> 01:04:33,556 is no exception, is that I get a bit more of a inkling 1401 01:04:33,556 --> 01:04:34,846 of why it's so important. 1402 01:04:35,636 --> 01:04:38,491 I think it's really important that people get to, at the 1403 01:04:38,491 --> 01:04:39,541 very least, tell their story. 1404 01:04:39,541 --> 01:04:43,231 And it becomes just part of our sort of way of being. 1405 01:04:43,321 --> 01:04:45,751 I had a orthopedic surgeon who I interviewed last 1406 01:04:45,751 --> 01:04:47,911 week, and he was saying how they're now starting 1407 01:04:47,911 --> 01:04:51,421 to introduce the near-death experiences and what happens 1408 01:04:51,421 --> 01:04:54,931 to people in nursing courses. 1409 01:04:54,936 --> 01:04:57,471 Like in the more advanced nursing courses after 1410 01:04:57,471 --> 01:04:59,361 they've done their usual medical school, they can go 1411 01:04:59,366 --> 01:05:01,611 and do an add-on and it's to teach people about near 1412 01:05:01,611 --> 01:05:03,881 death experiences because it's becoming so prevalent. 1413 01:05:04,881 --> 01:05:05,581 Oh wow. 1414 01:05:05,781 --> 01:05:06,891 That's good news. 1415 01:05:07,206 --> 01:05:07,446 Yeah. 1416 01:05:07,446 --> 01:05:08,796 Which is a step in the right direction. 1417 01:05:09,296 --> 01:05:12,056 Yeah, because in the old days they'd be like, oh 1418 01:05:12,056 --> 01:05:14,726 honey, that's not real. 1419 01:05:15,371 --> 01:05:15,491 Yeah. 1420 01:05:15,491 --> 01:05:17,081 That was just, there was an hallucination. 1421 01:05:17,081 --> 01:05:17,771 It was your brain. 1422 01:05:17,771 --> 01:05:21,686 I think when Eben Alexander, the neuroscientist, when he 1423 01:05:21,686 --> 01:05:25,496 wrote his book, it became much harder to argue that this is 1424 01:05:25,496 --> 01:05:27,656 an hallucination because your brain is not functioning. 1425 01:05:27,686 --> 01:05:29,906 How can you have memories if it's not functioning? 1426 01:05:29,906 --> 01:05:32,186 It can't be that the seat of the consciousness 1427 01:05:32,186 --> 01:05:32,906 is in the brain. 1428 01:05:32,906 --> 01:05:34,496 It has to be something outside of that. 1429 01:05:35,386 --> 01:05:36,166 I wanted to ask. 1430 01:05:36,226 --> 01:05:37,936 I know we've been, we've covered a lot of ground. 1431 01:05:37,941 --> 01:05:38,716 It's been amazing. 1432 01:05:39,176 --> 01:05:42,716 The mystical experiences that you had when you were small, 1433 01:05:42,816 --> 01:05:44,856 if you could just touch on those what they were about. 1434 01:05:45,856 --> 01:05:46,606 Unexpected. 1435 01:05:46,606 --> 01:05:47,416 That's the first thing. 1436 01:05:47,416 --> 01:05:48,316 And undeserved. 1437 01:05:48,526 --> 01:05:49,576 I didn't do anything. 1438 01:05:49,581 --> 01:05:50,416 It just happened. 1439 01:05:50,836 --> 01:05:54,586 And so I was, the first one, I was five years old and I 1440 01:05:54,586 --> 01:05:57,496 was waiting for my sisters to come back from school. 1441 01:05:57,676 --> 01:06:01,486 And I was a morning kindergarten class and it 1442 01:06:01,486 --> 01:06:02,866 was half day kindergarten. 1443 01:06:02,876 --> 01:06:06,146 I climbed a little tiny maple tree in my side yard waiting 1444 01:06:06,151 --> 01:06:08,906 for my sisters gonna surprise them when I got off the bus. 1445 01:06:09,446 --> 01:06:11,841 And it was a, an autumn day. 1446 01:06:11,841 --> 01:06:13,761 And all the leaves were these two colors. 1447 01:06:13,766 --> 01:06:14,631 It was a maple tree. 1448 01:06:14,811 --> 01:06:16,731 I dunno if you have sugar maple trees down in 1449 01:06:16,731 --> 01:06:19,401 Australia, but they're, they get very colorful 1450 01:06:19,401 --> 01:06:21,711 in the autumn, but before they turn color, they're 1451 01:06:21,711 --> 01:06:23,481 these vibrant two-tone. 1452 01:06:23,811 --> 01:06:25,551 The top of the leaf is one color, bottom of the 1453 01:06:25,551 --> 01:06:26,361 leaf is another color. 1454 01:06:26,481 --> 01:06:28,761 And the wind was blowing and it was flipping these leaves. 1455 01:06:28,761 --> 01:06:31,071 And I got into this mesmeric state as I 1456 01:06:31,076 --> 01:06:32,331 watched at five years old. 1457 01:06:32,331 --> 01:06:34,481 And as I'm in this mesmeric state, just watching 1458 01:06:34,481 --> 01:06:38,846 these flipping leaves, I, this roar happened. 1459 01:06:38,846 --> 01:06:42,086 And behind me this very loud when I was a kid I 1460 01:06:42,086 --> 01:06:44,936 talked about it as like a whole bunch of trumpets 1461 01:06:44,941 --> 01:06:46,766 blowing behind me bra. 1462 01:06:46,986 --> 01:06:50,071 And as it blew behind me, it entered into me 1463 01:06:50,281 --> 01:06:53,461 and it grabbed me and it pulled me out of myself. 1464 01:06:53,701 --> 01:06:56,041 And I was stretched up. 1465 01:06:56,091 --> 01:07:00,021 I was inside the same angelic being, and I was pulled up out 1466 01:07:00,021 --> 01:07:03,201 of myself and I could see my human self and I was being, 1467 01:07:03,206 --> 01:07:05,211 and I was way above it, right? 1468 01:07:05,211 --> 01:07:06,381 Right through the atmosphere. 1469 01:07:06,561 --> 01:07:09,501 And then I was inside of this angelic being, and I 1470 01:07:09,501 --> 01:07:13,281 could still down this very tiny, thin cord, see my human 1471 01:07:13,281 --> 01:07:16,416 self sitting in the tree a million miles away from me. 1472 01:07:17,416 --> 01:07:20,211 But I was inside of this transparent orb 1473 01:07:20,241 --> 01:07:21,831 in this great darkness. 1474 01:07:21,921 --> 01:07:25,671 And inside this transparent orb, I had a body of light, 1475 01:07:26,091 --> 01:07:29,211 and I'm in this body of light, and there is like 1476 01:07:29,266 --> 01:07:32,146 a countertop appears a counter in front of me. 1477 01:07:32,306 --> 01:07:34,586 And then the, it's a barrier of some kind. 1478 01:07:34,856 --> 01:07:40,496 And the orb opens up and in pours a portion of the divine. 1479 01:07:40,796 --> 01:07:44,936 And this portion of the divine is morphing, changing 1480 01:07:44,936 --> 01:07:48,666 through all of these different shapes at an 1481 01:07:48,666 --> 01:07:50,016 incredible rate of speed. 1482 01:07:51,016 --> 01:07:51,496 Just change. 1483 01:07:51,686 --> 01:07:55,826 But consistently saying to me, you have a deal with 1484 01:07:55,826 --> 01:07:57,926 me and showing me itself. 1485 01:07:57,926 --> 01:08:01,736 And then it pulled me out of this orb and into the 1486 01:08:01,736 --> 01:08:08,416 darkness, and in the darkness I saw a glimpse of infinity 1487 01:08:08,486 --> 01:08:11,606 of the size of the divine. 1488 01:08:11,756 --> 01:08:16,346 I saw myself as pre-existent, and then I was back inside 1489 01:08:16,351 --> 01:08:19,651 the orb and I and it said to me, you have a. 1490 01:08:20,196 --> 01:08:23,706 This is me, Peter, making language for what happened. 1491 01:08:24,036 --> 01:08:25,596 You have a contract with me. 1492 01:08:26,116 --> 01:08:28,991 You work for me, you work for me. 1493 01:08:29,381 --> 01:08:30,191 You're mine. 1494 01:08:30,521 --> 01:08:31,511 You work for me. 1495 01:08:31,811 --> 01:08:32,297 And I was like, oh yeah. 1496 01:08:32,625 --> 01:08:33,405 I work for you. 1497 01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:34,275 I had that deal. 1498 01:08:34,335 --> 01:08:35,295 I'm, that's our deal. 1499 01:08:35,475 --> 01:08:37,935 Our deal is in this lifetime I work for you. 1500 01:08:38,205 --> 01:08:40,365 And then I'm back in my body again. 1501 01:08:40,775 --> 01:08:41,765 And I'm like, what? 1502 01:08:41,765 --> 01:08:44,545 And I jump out of the tree and I run in the house. 1503 01:08:44,550 --> 01:08:46,735 And cuz I'm a five-year-old kid going to Greek, 1504 01:08:47,065 --> 01:08:48,855 Greek school and the Catholic church. 1505 01:08:48,910 --> 01:08:50,850 And I run in the house and I say to my mom, 1506 01:08:51,180 --> 01:08:52,470 I'm gonna be a priest. 1507 01:08:52,750 --> 01:08:53,890 God talked to me. 1508 01:08:54,250 --> 01:08:56,660 And I got in trouble cuz I was not supposed to be in the 1509 01:08:56,660 --> 01:08:59,120 house cuz my, the baby was sleeping and I got kicked out 1510 01:08:59,170 --> 01:09:01,120 and I had to dust the house and all this kind of stuff. 1511 01:09:01,125 --> 01:09:04,380 It was punishment And cuz I broke the rules and I realized 1512 01:09:04,380 --> 01:09:08,490 that I should keep my mouth shut about this kind of thing. 1513 01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,080 And I didn't understand it. 1514 01:09:10,420 --> 01:09:11,020 At all. 1515 01:09:11,070 --> 01:09:13,880 But I, my mom and my dad would tell me that I 1516 01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,580 was I was a boy, right? 1517 01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:18,370 I did boy things picked on my sisters and, 1518 01:09:18,420 --> 01:09:20,310 hurt my brother and all this kind of boy stuff. 1519 01:09:20,370 --> 01:09:24,270 And, but my mom and my dad said that I was also had a 1520 01:09:24,270 --> 01:09:26,850 lot of compassion that they, the other kids didn't have. 1521 01:09:27,090 --> 01:09:28,320 And I think it came from this. 1522 01:09:28,380 --> 01:09:31,720 And then about a year later when I was six the day that my 1523 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,200 dog, my dad accidentally ran over my dog and killed him. 1524 01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:36,280 And I saw it happen. 1525 01:09:36,740 --> 01:09:41,660 And it was tragic and it was emotionally, and my parents 1526 01:09:41,660 --> 01:09:44,540 had gotten me this dog because the, it's a long story. 1527 01:09:44,540 --> 01:09:45,680 I had this special dog. 1528 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,390 And so that night as I cried myself to sleep, I 1529 01:09:50,395 --> 01:09:54,270 heard my name being called and I sat up in bed and I 1530 01:09:54,270 --> 01:09:56,500 hear this voice that it's not my mom and my dad, it's 1531 01:09:56,500 --> 01:09:58,380 not my sister, it's not my grandparents I don't know who 1532 01:09:58,380 --> 01:10:00,960 it is, but I know the voice and it's filled with love. 1533 01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,070 It's just calling my name. 1534 01:10:02,610 --> 01:10:03,720 And so I sit up in bed. 1535 01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,760 And it's calling my name and calling my name. 1536 01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,320 It's calling come to me, and I look down and my 1537 01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:10,340 body is still asleep. 1538 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:12,260 Curled up on the bed with the pillow. 1539 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,280 And I look down, I'm like what's that? 1540 01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,880 Is that me and I'm me And I looked down at my feet 1541 01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,820 and my body, and I've got this ethereal body again. 1542 01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:24,710 And I can see in the room and my baby brother has 1543 01:10:24,710 --> 01:10:25,700 got its crib in the room. 1544 01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:27,220 And it's dark in the room. 1545 01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:29,560 But the whole thing is like a sepia tone. 1546 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,230 Everything is this copper illumination. 1547 01:10:32,590 --> 01:10:34,210 But if the illumination is not coming from the 1548 01:10:34,210 --> 01:10:36,100 outside, it's coming from inside of everything. 1549 01:10:36,580 --> 01:10:37,720 And it says, come to me. 1550 01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:38,230 Come to me. 1551 01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:40,720 And so I stand up and my feet aren't on the floor. 1552 01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:41,860 I'm floating above the floor. 1553 01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:43,340 Come to me, and I get to the door. 1554 01:10:43,820 --> 01:10:45,200 And it's most, it's like love. 1555 01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:46,610 I hear this love and it's voiced love. 1556 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,680 And the door's kind of shut. 1557 01:10:48,980 --> 01:10:50,670 And it says, come to me. 1558 01:10:50,670 --> 01:10:51,030 Come to me. 1559 01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:52,410 And I reach for the knob and my hand goes through 1560 01:10:52,410 --> 01:10:56,260 the knob and it says, nah, just walk through the door. 1561 01:10:56,260 --> 01:10:57,100 You don't need a knob. 1562 01:10:57,310 --> 01:10:59,170 And so I walked through the door and I passed 1563 01:10:59,170 --> 01:11:00,155 through the solid door. 1564 01:11:00,515 --> 01:11:02,735 And at the top of the stairs, I looked down the stairs. 1565 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,230 And there was a landing, which, the stairs came down 1566 01:11:06,230 --> 01:11:07,700 and angled at a 90 degree. 1567 01:11:07,850 --> 01:11:10,820 And in the la 90 degree angle there was a little elephant 1568 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:11,840 that filled the landing. 1569 01:11:12,020 --> 01:11:15,410 And this elephant was all dressed in like sparkly 1570 01:11:15,410 --> 01:11:17,330 Indian elephant clothes. 1571 01:11:17,780 --> 01:11:21,425 And, but I, I was a Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic 1572 01:11:21,425 --> 01:11:23,195 Irish kid from Boston. 1573 01:11:23,245 --> 01:11:24,745 I didn't know nothing about Hinduism. 1574 01:11:25,165 --> 01:11:29,206 And there's this elephant and it's eyes are black and 1575 01:11:29,211 --> 01:11:33,480 it's speaking to me inside my head and it's telepathically 1576 01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:35,990 communicating to me, and it's waving me down with its 1577 01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:38,495 trunk and I float, come to me, and I go down and I'm 1578 01:11:38,495 --> 01:11:39,575 an eye to eye with this. 1579 01:11:39,580 --> 01:11:40,895 I'm like a six year old kid. 1580 01:11:40,945 --> 01:11:43,225 And my eyes are at the same level and I'm looking in one 1581 01:11:43,225 --> 01:11:47,745 of the eyes and I shrink and I fly inside the eye, pass 1582 01:11:47,905 --> 01:11:50,845 through and into the eye, and I'm into this darkness again. 1583 01:11:50,845 --> 01:11:53,335 But this darkness is, it's filled with wisdom. 1584 01:11:53,820 --> 01:11:58,990 And knowledge and comfort and I see a glimpse of myself 1585 01:11:58,990 --> 01:12:02,290 and infinity, and then I'm pulled back out again and 1586 01:12:02,290 --> 01:12:04,650 I'm in front of the little elephant and it says, go down 1587 01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:05,430 the stairs and go outside. 1588 01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:06,420 And I'm like, I can't do that. 1589 01:12:06,420 --> 01:12:08,370 My mom and dad told me never go outside at night. 1590 01:12:08,580 --> 01:12:09,110 It's no go. 1591 01:12:09,170 --> 01:12:12,200 And so it motions with its trunk down the stairs. 1592 01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:14,600 And so I float down the stairs and I go through the 1593 01:12:14,605 --> 01:12:17,945 front door and out into the road and it's upstairs in 1594 01:12:17,950 --> 01:12:20,525 the hallway still, on the stairs, but it's also with me. 1595 01:12:20,525 --> 01:12:23,465 So it's in two places at once and it's speaking to 1596 01:12:23,465 --> 01:12:24,605 me and it's says, lookup. 1597 01:12:24,765 --> 01:12:25,065 Look up. 1598 01:12:25,275 --> 01:12:29,175 So look up and there's this star filled sky and 1599 01:12:29,175 --> 01:12:31,960 this and as I look at all these stars, suddenly I 1600 01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:33,550 shoot toward them all. 1601 01:12:33,610 --> 01:12:36,730 And as I shoot toward them all, they all open up and 1602 01:12:36,730 --> 01:12:38,800 I see infinity inside them. 1603 01:12:39,020 --> 01:12:42,575 I see the origin of them all, and it's frightens me. 1604 01:12:42,815 --> 01:12:44,015 It's too much for me. 1605 01:12:44,165 --> 01:12:45,845 It's too big and too overwhelming. 1606 01:12:46,175 --> 01:12:48,815 And as soon as this happens, I am back in my 1607 01:12:48,815 --> 01:12:49,835 body again in the bed. 1608 01:12:50,835 --> 01:12:54,885 And I sit up and it's dark in the room and I'm, and I 1609 01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:58,695 spent, I don't know, an hour searching the house, even in 1610 01:12:58,695 --> 01:13:04,095 the dark, scary spider ridden cellar where I never, ever go. 1611 01:13:04,095 --> 01:13:06,015 I even went looking down there for the elephant. 1612 01:13:06,615 --> 01:13:10,490 And I, it wasn't until I was much, much older 1613 01:13:11,090 --> 01:13:12,050 after my first NDE. 1614 01:13:13,050 --> 01:13:16,020 That looking back over my shoulder of my life, I saw 1615 01:13:16,020 --> 01:13:19,440 this pattern cuz because there was another one that happened. 1616 01:13:19,470 --> 01:13:21,240 There were two that happened the year before I died. 1617 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:22,290 I haven't even told you about. 1618 01:13:22,780 --> 01:13:24,875 I, back when I was backpacking on the Appalachian 1619 01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:25,955 Trail the year before. 1620 01:13:26,465 --> 01:13:29,105 As I look back from my NDE, I see this pattern 1621 01:13:29,405 --> 01:13:32,525 that set me up for this life that I'm living. 1622 01:13:33,225 --> 01:13:34,835 And I got to choose. 1623 01:13:35,015 --> 01:13:36,995 I get to choose now. 1624 01:13:37,365 --> 01:13:39,975 I have decision making capacity now, but I 1625 01:13:39,980 --> 01:13:42,465 made my real choice before I was even born. 1626 01:13:43,335 --> 01:13:45,045 And I've been living with that ever since. 1627 01:13:45,165 --> 01:13:50,240 And I've had to live into that because I've not always 1628 01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:53,270 enjoyed it and I've not always liked the choices that I made 1629 01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,220 not have been an easy thing. 1630 01:13:56,220 --> 01:13:58,520 Peter how can people learn more about the 1631 01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:59,420 work that you do? 1632 01:13:59,420 --> 01:14:01,760 And if they wanted to get in touch or ask a 1633 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:03,620 question, what's the best way to do that? 1634 01:14:04,140 --> 01:14:05,520 I'm at peterpanagore.love. 1635 01:14:05,540 --> 01:14:07,600 You can email me peter pango.love. 1636 01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:12,340 I specialize in helping people who've had mystical 1637 01:14:12,345 --> 01:14:13,900 experiences integrate. 1638 01:14:14,540 --> 01:14:16,610 People who've had near-death experiences integrate, 1639 01:14:16,610 --> 01:14:19,550 help them understand what they've gone through. 1640 01:14:19,580 --> 01:14:21,650 I've had a lot of mystical experiences. 1641 01:14:21,650 --> 01:14:22,610 I didn't make them happen. 1642 01:14:22,610 --> 01:14:23,480 They happened to me. 1643 01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,510 And there's been a lot of them. 1644 01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:29,140 And so I have lots of unusual experience that 1645 01:14:29,140 --> 01:14:30,340 people have found helpful. 1646 01:14:30,970 --> 01:14:32,770 I run a YouTube channel: Not Church. 1647 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,700 Not Church is about mysticism, and I run a global group on 1648 01:14:37,700 --> 01:14:40,400 Sundays, on Zoom for people from all over the world, 1649 01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,460 including Australia where we talk about the things that you 1650 01:14:43,460 --> 01:14:45,680 can't talk about in public, about your mystical life. 1651 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:46,920 Excellent. 1652 01:14:47,100 --> 01:14:50,280 And do you have any last message for people before 1653 01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:51,240 we wrap the interview up? 1654 01:14:52,130 --> 01:14:52,880 Sure. 1655 01:14:52,980 --> 01:14:54,330 All you need is love. 1656 01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:56,070 That's all you need. 1657 01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:56,580 That's it. 1658 01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,845 All has been well and will be well, and you'll 1659 01:14:59,845 --> 01:15:01,795 find out for yourself the moment that you die. 1660 01:15:01,915 --> 01:15:03,955 It's not darkness. 1661 01:15:03,955 --> 01:15:04,945 It's light. 1662 01:15:05,945 --> 01:15:06,425 Trust it. 1663 01:15:07,425 --> 01:15:10,695 Peter, thank you for being the guest of my show. 1664 01:15:10,695 --> 01:15:12,555 I really appreciate you taking the time today. 1665 01:15:13,410 --> 01:15:13,930 Thanks Rod.