WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.049 --> 00:00:03.830 Robby: The Brand ED Podcast with Robby Fowler, episode 72. 00:00:04.189 --> 00:00:08.720 How to work with a designer to grow your consulting, training, or coaching 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:12.780 personal brand with special guests, Jason Clemett and Mike Brennan. 00:00:18.607 --> 00:00:22.717 Too many personal brands are stuck pitching to everybody, getting heard 00:00:22.717 --> 00:00:25.177 by nobody, and settling for anybody. 00:00:25.447 --> 00:00:30.407 This show helps high-integrity brands secure and serve-the-socks-off 00:00:30.427 --> 00:00:32.407 more of your dream clients. 00:00:32.657 --> 00:00:36.757 We'll go beyond marketing hacks and discover how to grow a thriving, 00:00:36.757 --> 00:00:41.467 personal brand business based on radical empathy for your clients. 00:00:45.949 --> 00:00:47.509 Welcome to the show today. 00:00:47.689 --> 00:00:51.889 We're going to have a good time because this is a little round table discussion 00:00:51.889 --> 00:00:56.689 that you're going to get to listen in on with two of my very good friends 00:00:56.689 --> 00:00:59.269 and phenomenal designers and artists. 00:00:59.569 --> 00:01:02.229 It's Mike Brennan and Jason Clement. 00:01:02.269 --> 00:01:06.932 And together, we're going to talk about design and what you, as a personal brand 00:01:07.062 --> 00:01:11.035 need to know when you're working with a designer to build your personal brand. 00:01:11.215 --> 00:01:13.915 So let's jump into today's episode. 00:01:14.968 --> 00:01:16.468 Welcome to the podcast. 00:01:16.518 --> 00:01:20.478 So I've got Mike Brennan who is here and I'll get him to 00:01:20.478 --> 00:01:22.038 introduce himself in a second. 00:01:22.038 --> 00:01:23.338 And Jason Clement. 00:01:23.358 --> 00:01:25.238 We all come from a design background. 00:01:25.238 --> 00:01:29.590 You guys are in the day-to-day of design more than I am currently. 00:01:29.950 --> 00:01:33.640 But I thought this would be a great time to get together talk about creativity, 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:38.020 to talk about design, and to help folks listening who aren't designers. 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:42.013 We're going to invite them into the little geek club and you guys aren't 00:01:42.013 --> 00:01:45.808 get to listen in to understand how to work with their designer at, to get 00:01:45.808 --> 00:01:49.638 the most out of their designer and what they need to be paying attention to and 00:01:49.638 --> 00:01:53.244 not paying attention to when it comes to personal branding and their design. 00:01:53.263 --> 00:01:56.413 Mike, let's start with you just go ahead and introduce yourself and tell 00:01:56.413 --> 00:01:59.203 us a little bit about what you do, and then we'll turn it over to Jason. 00:01:59.728 --> 00:02:00.058 Mike Brennan: Sure. 00:02:00.088 --> 00:02:00.328 Yeah. 00:02:00.328 --> 00:02:04.417 So Mike Brandon and I say that I am a creator and communicator who 00:02:04.417 --> 00:02:06.397 tells stories on pages and stages. 00:02:06.967 --> 00:02:08.001 And that means a couple of things. 00:02:08.001 --> 00:02:11.871 One on the creator side, obviously designer, like you said, I've been 00:02:11.871 --> 00:02:15.194 doing graphic design for years and years as well as illustration. 00:02:15.674 --> 00:02:19.184 So sometimes that illustration crosses over into design and I get to do 00:02:19.184 --> 00:02:23.384 projects where kind of both happen in logo settings or other settings. 00:02:23.413 --> 00:02:26.963 But I also do a lot of like pop culture art and things that lean a 00:02:26.963 --> 00:02:28.253 little bit more towards fine arts. 00:02:28.496 --> 00:02:32.366 And then on the communicator side, I have a podcast creative chats, and I also speak 00:02:32.366 --> 00:02:34.359 about establishing a daily creative habit. 00:02:34.389 --> 00:02:35.679 Love all things, creativity. 00:02:35.954 --> 00:02:36.404 Robby: Yes. 00:02:36.434 --> 00:02:37.004 Very cool. 00:02:37.034 --> 00:02:38.804 All right, Jason, I should let you go first. 00:02:38.804 --> 00:02:41.234 Unless you've got something that rhymes like Mike does. 00:02:41.506 --> 00:02:42.166 Oh, that was good. 00:02:42.256 --> 00:02:43.306 I kept thinking 00:02:43.361 --> 00:02:44.404 I was like, oh no. 00:02:44.427 --> 00:02:45.957 Mike Brennan: Hanging out with my copywriter, friends too 00:02:46.032 --> 00:02:46.222 Robby: yeah. 00:02:46.447 --> 00:02:49.705 So Jason, tell us a little bit about, who you are, what you do. 00:02:49.705 --> 00:02:51.748 Jason Clement: So I'm a graphic designer as well. 00:02:51.748 --> 00:02:53.218 I've done drag design my whole life. 00:02:53.218 --> 00:02:55.897 I started in I've always loved to draw and I started in high 00:02:55.897 --> 00:02:56.967 school, I had a mentor who. 00:02:57.241 --> 00:02:58.561 Introduce me to the world of design. 00:02:58.894 --> 00:03:00.844 There's an action, there's a natural extension there and 00:03:00.844 --> 00:03:01.809 I just fell in love with it. 00:03:01.841 --> 00:03:03.003 And I've been doing it every sentence. 00:03:03.003 --> 00:03:07.407 I do a lot of branding and websites for coaches, consultants, 00:03:07.557 --> 00:03:08.997 speakers, people like that. 00:03:09.392 --> 00:03:13.401 Robby: You've probably seen Mike and or Jason's work if you're in 00:03:13.411 --> 00:03:15.241 our streams or in our worlds at all. 00:03:15.291 --> 00:03:20.321 So both of you guys got started in some sort of design young would both of you. 00:03:20.321 --> 00:03:21.221 I know Mike, would. 00:03:21.221 --> 00:03:25.001 Jason, would you also consider yourself an artist? 00:03:25.226 --> 00:03:25.826 Jason Clement: I think so. 00:03:25.946 --> 00:03:30.986 I think there's a level of art to creating whether it's a business, a 00:03:30.986 --> 00:03:34.366 website for a business or a brand, or I think there's art, there's 00:03:34.366 --> 00:03:35.756 artists involved with all that. 00:03:35.786 --> 00:03:38.786 And I would definitely call myself that because that's where I started. 00:03:38.986 --> 00:03:40.216 Robby: I didn't start out as an artist. 00:03:40.216 --> 00:03:45.142 I can't draw like stick figures . So I'm the designer 00:03:45.142 --> 00:03:46.342 that the artists typically go. 00:03:46.372 --> 00:03:48.232 Ah, but you're not even an artist. 00:03:48.802 --> 00:03:52.037 I will freely admit, Nope, I am Okay. 00:03:52.037 --> 00:03:57.062 I would love to know from each one you, what's your favorite thing to do? 00:03:57.152 --> 00:03:58.892 Either art or design. 00:03:58.942 --> 00:04:02.572 What do you enjoy doing the most out of the things that you regularly get to do? 00:04:02.797 --> 00:04:03.637 Mike Brennan: I'm already doing that. 00:04:03.637 --> 00:04:07.867 So I, it's not really that hard for me to think of it's doing portraits. 00:04:08.350 --> 00:04:13.644 I do a lot of digital portraits, so I have an iPad pro and use the apple pencil. 00:04:13.644 --> 00:04:17.154 And when that thing came out and those things came together for me, 00:04:17.754 --> 00:04:19.884 it was a great experience for me. 00:04:20.161 --> 00:04:24.389 Because I had tablets in the past and that whole disconnect of looking one 00:04:24.389 --> 00:04:26.279 place and drawing in another place. 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:27.659 I could never really master that. 00:04:27.659 --> 00:04:32.279 But when the iPad pro came out and the pencil that really helped me a 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:34.079 lot, make it feel more intuitive. 00:04:34.469 --> 00:04:37.889 And so doing portraits because I just love people and I love making connections. 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:42.435 And there's just something about doing people's portraits in a loose style 00:04:42.435 --> 00:04:44.205 that really resonates with who I am. 00:04:44.615 --> 00:04:48.325 Robby: So when you do that at an event, are you, I padding that, are 00:04:48.325 --> 00:04:50.875 you good, old canvas kind of thing? 00:04:50.875 --> 00:04:54.055 How do you do that when you're doing that on a stage or something? 00:04:54.185 --> 00:04:54.485 Mike Brennan: Yeah. 00:04:54.485 --> 00:04:58.944 So most of the time, I'd say probably like 90% of the time I'm 00:04:58.944 --> 00:05:00.757 doing digital, I'm doing iPad. 00:05:00.757 --> 00:05:02.989 A lot of the canvas stuff either. 00:05:03.217 --> 00:05:05.977 If I'm selling something or doing something after the fact I'll be 00:05:05.977 --> 00:05:09.907 getting like a prints made high quality of prints on canvas. 00:05:10.177 --> 00:05:11.737 And then I can always hand embellish them. 00:05:12.172 --> 00:05:16.050 And every once in a while I have the need to get a little dirty and sloppy and 00:05:16.050 --> 00:05:19.500 sling some paint around and stuff like that, and just kinda get back to my roots. 00:05:19.515 --> 00:05:24.027 But something about because of being so much in the design world 00:05:24.027 --> 00:05:28.827 and already being in a digital platform, harnessing that stuff. 00:05:29.111 --> 00:05:34.939 More tools that, that kind of mimic analog, if you will and the messy textures 00:05:34.939 --> 00:05:38.089 and all those kinds of things, I really enjoy bringing those worlds together. 00:05:38.359 --> 00:05:41.811 And of course having undoing and not cleaning up, paint and things 00:05:41.811 --> 00:05:43.881 like that, it's really it really. 00:05:44.144 --> 00:05:48.224 And also, I don't have things piling up around me like canvases and whatnot. 00:05:48.404 --> 00:05:51.374 After a while, you can be like, I'm running out of room, but digital 00:05:51.374 --> 00:05:52.394 clutter, is a little different. 00:05:52.914 --> 00:05:57.564 Robby: Yeah, I think I could close my eyes and get the undo shortcut. 00:05:57.594 --> 00:05:58.794 No problem with the keyboard. 00:05:58.794 --> 00:06:02.694 Like I know the exact ratio from thumb to index finger for undo. 00:06:02.724 --> 00:06:03.084 Whoops. 00:06:03.474 --> 00:06:03.744 Okay. 00:06:03.744 --> 00:06:07.674 So Jason, we, Mike and I get together, we pull some money together. 00:06:07.674 --> 00:06:10.584 We send you away to some fabulous location for a week. 00:06:10.584 --> 00:06:14.334 And our only request is while you're there chilling and hanging 00:06:14.334 --> 00:06:17.374 out for a week by yourself, you got to do some designs just for fun. 00:06:17.374 --> 00:06:18.658 What would you do? 00:06:19.136 --> 00:06:21.866 Jason Clement: This is a really mixed for me because I really enjoy creating 00:06:21.866 --> 00:06:26.456 brands or identities, but that is across crossover there because that, for me, that 00:06:26.506 --> 00:06:28.946 still starts on with a pencil and paper. 00:06:29.436 --> 00:06:33.256 And so I'll I've been making the transition to iPad because of the pencil. 00:06:33.316 --> 00:06:34.156 I love it. 00:06:34.249 --> 00:06:38.742 And been doing lot more on my iPad versus a notebook, but I carry a a 00:06:38.742 --> 00:06:41.562 field notes with me all the a pencil. 00:06:41.562 --> 00:06:42.934 So I love to draw with a pencil. 00:06:43.185 --> 00:06:45.715 even like in meetings if you've ever been on a zoom call with 00:06:45.715 --> 00:06:48.895 me, except for today, I anything Oh, there's a pretty good chance. 00:06:48.915 --> 00:06:50.195 I drew a picture of you all around. 00:06:50.215 --> 00:06:52.202 It's just I just sketch, draw all the time. 00:06:52.310 --> 00:06:52.670 Cool. 00:06:52.925 --> 00:06:53.285 Okay. 00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:56.610 it's interesting that the branding starts with sketches for me. 00:06:57.056 --> 00:07:00.402 Robby: So folks listening in are likely a personal brand 00:07:00.627 --> 00:07:02.877 branding conversation comes up. 00:07:02.907 --> 00:07:03.447 They're on. 00:07:03.897 --> 00:07:09.297 Having to think about brand logo, design, all of that stuff. 00:07:09.417 --> 00:07:14.217 And for most of those folks, it's not the funnest thing for them to think about. 00:07:14.247 --> 00:07:16.587 They think about, oh, this is going to cost me a lot of money 00:07:16.947 --> 00:07:18.837 or how much money should it cost? 00:07:19.497 --> 00:07:21.027 How do I get a good one? 00:07:21.237 --> 00:07:25.827 Should I go look over here on some super cheap site and just get something for $5. 00:07:26.457 --> 00:07:27.987 So let's help folks out. 00:07:27.987 --> 00:07:29.817 We're going to bring you into the inner circle. 00:07:30.087 --> 00:07:32.367 We've got three designers here. 00:07:32.697 --> 00:07:36.417 A lot of us do design around branding and personal brands. 00:07:36.417 --> 00:07:38.727 So let's start with you, Jason. 00:07:38.727 --> 00:07:42.897 If a personal brand comes to you and they say, Jason, I need 00:07:42.897 --> 00:07:45.327 you to help me with my brand. 00:07:45.717 --> 00:07:48.327 Where do you typically start with them? 00:07:48.582 --> 00:07:48.792 Jason Clement: Yeah. 00:07:48.822 --> 00:07:49.680 I have a little questionnaire. 00:07:49.710 --> 00:07:50.500 I walk them through. 00:07:50.514 --> 00:07:53.664 But I think what I normally do is like the brand is more 00:07:53.664 --> 00:07:54.924 than just creating an identity. 00:07:55.254 --> 00:07:57.894 I think I just referred improperly previously. 00:07:57.894 --> 00:08:00.094 But, if I'm talking about a brand, I talk about. 00:08:00.664 --> 00:08:02.284 That extends multiple things. 00:08:02.284 --> 00:08:05.305 So I asked like what other areas that they're involved with. 00:08:05.305 --> 00:08:06.565 So are you doing a book? 00:08:06.775 --> 00:08:07.795 Do you have lead magnets? 00:08:07.805 --> 00:08:11.531 You have a website, all these other things, because I really like to, I, 00:08:11.531 --> 00:08:15.251 sweet spot is where I'm happy is when I can create an identity for you and help 00:08:15.251 --> 00:08:19.241 you build that But then also let that seep into all your other, all the other 00:08:19.871 --> 00:08:21.311 that you created or having created. 00:08:21.791 --> 00:08:24.734 I like to know what it is that they do what other areas that 00:08:24.824 --> 00:08:25.694 this print is going to be going. 00:08:26.267 --> 00:08:31.217 Robby: So Mike, why do to designers and why a personal brand think through that... 00:08:31.232 --> 00:08:34.164 of the different places this is going to get used? 00:08:34.164 --> 00:08:36.294 Why does that matter for you the designer? 00:08:36.744 --> 00:08:40.134 Mike Brennan: Yeah, it matters because of context, right? 00:08:40.134 --> 00:08:45.564 Context is key because you don't want to build something to find out you get on 00:08:45.564 --> 00:08:50.094 the other end of it and it's useless, or it doesn't work in a variety of contexts. 00:08:50.544 --> 00:08:54.834 And so a lot of times people haven't thought through those issues. 00:08:55.194 --> 00:08:59.724 And so for us as designers, we need to be thinking about those things because 00:08:59.724 --> 00:09:03.131 we want to be, at the end of this, we want you to be happy as a client. 00:09:03.131 --> 00:09:05.261 We want to feel good about the work that we've done. 00:09:05.891 --> 00:09:10.871 And we want to try to avoid as much as possible, any wrong turns or dead ends. 00:09:11.381 --> 00:09:15.401 And so asking as many questions up front as possible, so that there's clarity. 00:09:15.778 --> 00:09:19.438 And the other thing I've found is that many times people come and they're 00:09:19.438 --> 00:09:24.418 asking for something and it's fairly obvious early on in the conversation 00:09:24.418 --> 00:09:28.048 that they're not really sure why they're even asking what they're asking. 00:09:28.708 --> 00:09:31.198 Someone told them that they needed a logo. 00:09:31.198 --> 00:09:32.908 Someone told them that they need to visual. 00:09:33.358 --> 00:09:35.008 they don't really understand why. 00:09:35.308 --> 00:09:37.976 They just know that's part of the process that's on the list 00:09:37.976 --> 00:09:39.206 of things I need to tick off. 00:09:39.236 --> 00:09:42.386 And so I've reached out because this is something I need to have done. 00:09:42.666 --> 00:09:46.035 And so having a larger conversation around that to go, okay let's talk 00:09:46.035 --> 00:09:47.775 about what the purpose of that is. 00:09:48.285 --> 00:09:52.533 And let's try and get some clarity around that so that you're not just checking the 00:09:52.533 --> 00:09:56.016 box and saying, okay, I've got that piece done, but that you're being intentional 00:09:56.261 --> 00:10:00.121 and clear as far as what it is that you're hoping this is going to accomplish. 00:10:00.216 --> 00:10:00.718 Robby: That's good. 00:10:00.718 --> 00:10:02.188 So let's stop there. 00:10:02.188 --> 00:10:05.878 Let's summarize two things we've already just learned if you're a personal brand. 00:10:06.478 --> 00:10:11.908 One of those things is beware of, just the list somebody hands you 00:10:12.088 --> 00:10:15.688 that, Hey, you need to go get these things in order to be a personal brand 00:10:16.108 --> 00:10:17.668 and just run out there and do them. 00:10:17.668 --> 00:10:21.001 And Mike just mentioned have given zero thought as to why. 00:10:21.421 --> 00:10:23.911 I'm doing this because somebody told me to do this. 00:10:23.991 --> 00:10:26.721 And then what both of the guys mentioned, number two. 00:10:27.276 --> 00:10:31.326 When you're looking for a designer or working with a designer on your visual 00:10:31.326 --> 00:10:36.156 identity, if they don't ask you the questions that Mike and Jason just 00:10:36.456 --> 00:10:40.168 asked you or said that's where they start, then you need to keep looking. 00:10:40.198 --> 00:10:45.649 Can we agree, fellas, keep, you don't have a good visual identity brand designer if 00:10:45.649 --> 00:10:47.539 they're not asking you these questions. 00:10:47.548 --> 00:10:48.279 We've come in. 00:10:48.556 --> 00:10:50.086 You've asked me some questions. 00:10:50.086 --> 00:10:55.006 You're now helping me think about the visual identity part of my brand, how 00:10:55.006 --> 00:10:57.256 that relates to the rest of my brand. 00:10:57.946 --> 00:11:02.506 What's the next thing that you help personal brand with, or 00:11:02.506 --> 00:11:05.974 think through when it comes to now using and applying that brand? 00:11:06.224 --> 00:11:08.735 Where do you see mistakes after Jason or Mike? 00:11:08.822 --> 00:11:11.012 You turn over the visual identity assets. 00:11:11.012 --> 00:11:12.002 You say, there you go. 00:11:12.572 --> 00:11:13.982 Where do you see mistakes? 00:11:14.322 --> 00:11:17.266 What advice would you give them about how to take advantage of 00:11:17.266 --> 00:11:18.334 what you've just done for them? 00:11:18.831 --> 00:11:20.522 Jason Clement: I see this a lot. 00:11:20.542 --> 00:11:24.437 I, not so much recently, but in the past I saw a lot where people 00:11:24.647 --> 00:11:25.887 just didn't use the things that I. 00:11:26.112 --> 00:11:29.008 If I created it, if I create a brand kit for you to follow the K here's 00:11:29.008 --> 00:11:30.148 your college, here's your fonts. 00:11:30.148 --> 00:11:30.838 Here's things like that. 00:11:31.438 --> 00:11:34.468 then I go and I see a lead magnet that they created it and it looks nothing 00:11:34.468 --> 00:11:38.093 like all the rules that we set up the followup and I'm and consistency is a key 00:11:38.093 --> 00:11:41.753 thing and I'm just like, this is totally not what should have happened here. 00:11:41.933 --> 00:11:45.702 I see that a lot where people just don't follow under the rules established. 00:11:45.927 --> 00:11:47.718 Robby: So there's your tip number three. 00:11:47.981 --> 00:11:48.641 Consistent. 00:11:48.761 --> 00:11:53.891 So take what your brand designer gives you for your visual identity. 00:11:54.371 --> 00:11:55.451 Number one, use it. 00:11:55.511 --> 00:11:58.091 Jason just said, please use it like you paid me for it. 00:11:58.091 --> 00:11:58.661 Use it. 00:11:59.141 --> 00:12:03.231 Number two, if there's one time to be a Pharisee and be legalistic, 00:12:03.681 --> 00:12:05.497 this is the time to be legalistic. 00:12:05.543 --> 00:12:08.683 Use it all the time, every single time. 00:12:08.721 --> 00:12:11.451 Be consistent, Mike, anything that you would add? 00:12:11.898 --> 00:12:13.608 Mike Brennan: I would be in agreement with Jason. 00:12:13.878 --> 00:12:17.748 I don't think people think about it in terms of assessing. 00:12:17.757 --> 00:12:21.897 So they get assets and maybe they tuck them away someplace. 00:12:22.317 --> 00:12:25.941 Hopefully they know where they are because that's sometimes even Hey, 00:12:25.941 --> 00:12:27.141 can you send that to me again? 00:12:27.141 --> 00:12:29.606 I don't know what I did with the link or where the, whatever. 00:12:29.610 --> 00:12:33.022 So hopefully there's enough organization on the other side where people, again, 00:12:33.022 --> 00:12:35.752 they've invested in this and then they put it someplace where they can 00:12:35.752 --> 00:12:37.332 access it and their team can access. 00:12:37.619 --> 00:12:38.339 Easily enough. 00:12:38.739 --> 00:12:42.791 And then, like I said, really, it's adopting a mindset that there's a 00:12:42.791 --> 00:12:49.322 system around this, that whoever touches anything visually needs to go through, 00:12:49.354 --> 00:12:51.394 the style guide that's been set up. 00:12:51.528 --> 00:12:52.398 You've paid all this money. 00:12:52.970 --> 00:12:54.770 All his effort and work has gone into that. 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:59.799 Why would you have this then not being used and implemented and making sure 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:04.359 that whoever is on your team knows where it is and understands that this is 00:13:04.629 --> 00:13:06.219 everything needs to pass through this. 00:13:06.579 --> 00:13:10.509 And so having, not only the people who were in charge seeing it as 00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:13.479 a system, but then also anybody else who comes into contact or 00:13:13.479 --> 00:13:15.849 needs to see it as the system is. 00:13:16.532 --> 00:13:18.112 Robby: Let me ask you guys. 00:13:18.347 --> 00:13:21.707 How do you organize the stuff you've done for me? 00:13:21.707 --> 00:13:23.477 Like logos and that kind of stuff. 00:13:23.747 --> 00:13:28.127 And then based on that, what would you recommend to me the personal brand to say, 00:13:28.127 --> 00:13:30.567 Hey, and when I turn these over to you. 00:13:30.567 --> 00:13:34.092 Like be smart, go organize them this way, store them. 00:13:34.192 --> 00:13:36.922 I know this sounds elementary, but this is part of the problem. 00:13:36.922 --> 00:13:38.195 We get a call back a week later. 00:13:38.195 --> 00:13:39.605 Hey, can you send me my logo? 00:13:40.145 --> 00:13:43.475 I just sent that to you seven days ago, a month later. 00:13:43.625 --> 00:13:45.575 Hey, can you hit me back with those logos again? 00:13:45.965 --> 00:13:48.695 So how do you organize and what advice would you give? 00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:49.200 Jason Clement: Yeah. 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.470 what I do is I package all the files up, all the various. 00:13:52.530 --> 00:13:56.820 File types and and low back package them all up and I'll send them all the files. 00:13:56.892 --> 00:14:00.301 I normally create a brand kit, a guidelines PDF that they have that 00:14:00.301 --> 00:14:01.721 kind of walks them through everything. 00:14:01.731 --> 00:14:07.101 And so normally I send out all that to them, but I also, most in most situations 00:14:07.101 --> 00:14:08.301 I'm creating a website or something. 00:14:08.526 --> 00:14:10.356 And I also create a page on their website. 00:14:10.363 --> 00:14:15.313 I'll say, Hey, you can go to xyz.com/logo or slash brand or whatever it is. 00:14:15.547 --> 00:14:17.818 on there you can find, it's another version of your brand kit. 00:14:17.848 --> 00:14:19.318 You your local files there. 00:14:19.318 --> 00:14:20.966 So they're able to share that with other people. 00:14:21.027 --> 00:14:23.547 If they do con come back to me months later and say, Hey, can you 00:14:23.547 --> 00:14:26.157 send me a local files again and say, Hey, just go to your website slash 00:14:26.187 --> 00:14:27.217 brand and all your stuff is there. 00:14:27.599 --> 00:14:28.619 Robby: Yeah, really smart. 00:14:28.678 --> 00:14:30.328 Mike, how do you organize your stuff? 00:14:30.328 --> 00:14:32.638 And any other advice you would give to somebody? 00:14:33.012 --> 00:14:37.297 Mike Brennan: Typically there's a backup system where, so I'm emailing 00:14:37.387 --> 00:14:40.897 files, but then also I will either create a Dropbox or Google drive. 00:14:41.137 --> 00:14:44.309 And make sure that in there you have your sub folders of here's your 00:14:44.309 --> 00:14:48.281 logo and logo types different file types in different color profile. 00:14:48.331 --> 00:14:53.228 The, brand kit or style guide, any assets that need to go along with that, 00:14:53.528 --> 00:14:58.071 clearly, mark, any fonts used, if that's appropriate, all those things labeled 00:14:58.071 --> 00:15:00.561 very clearly in folders of what they are. 00:15:00.981 --> 00:15:04.043 And everything has a place where it lives and it's organized at clearly. 00:15:04.583 --> 00:15:06.434 And I do more stuff. 00:15:06.434 --> 00:15:10.590 That's print or kind of some template stuff. 00:15:10.596 --> 00:15:11.863 Not necessarily websites. 00:15:12.088 --> 00:15:15.328 So I don't have that whole fancy webpage that Jason's talking 00:15:15.328 --> 00:15:16.468 about, but I liked that idea. 00:15:16.678 --> 00:15:17.458 I like that idea. 00:15:17.908 --> 00:15:19.288 Robby: Shoot Jason at Texas. 00:15:19.348 --> 00:15:21.478 Hey, throw this on a page for me, for 00:15:21.523 --> 00:15:22.003 Mike Brennan: me up, man. 00:15:22.278 --> 00:15:25.308 Robby: So maybe we'll get some examples of what those are that 00:15:25.398 --> 00:15:26.568 we'll get Jason to share with us. 00:15:26.568 --> 00:15:28.248 You can go everyone listening. 00:15:28.248 --> 00:15:30.228 You can go look at one of those and go, oh yeah, I'm going to make 00:15:30.228 --> 00:15:33.228 sure my designer gives me one of those pages or you just are Jason. 00:15:33.228 --> 00:15:33.588 That's fine. 00:15:34.158 --> 00:15:34.668 Okay. 00:15:35.118 --> 00:15:37.068 So this is going to be a fun one. 00:15:37.518 --> 00:15:42.888 The difference between like print and web or screen, how do 00:15:42.888 --> 00:15:44.148 we break that down for folks? 00:15:44.148 --> 00:15:46.908 So they understand why are you giving me all these versions? 00:15:46.938 --> 00:15:50.298 Or if I go hire somebody cheap and they just give me one 00:15:50.298 --> 00:15:51.648 version, why is that a problem? 00:15:51.698 --> 00:15:54.008 How would you explain to folks? 00:15:54.518 --> 00:15:59.258 Look, when you hire me, I'm going to give you these files in this different formats. 00:15:59.418 --> 00:15:59.968 Here's why. 00:16:00.218 --> 00:16:03.088 Jason Clement: It's funny because I was thinking about that while Mike was talking 00:16:03.098 --> 00:16:06.038 to the number of times, and I'm sure you guys can probably all this happen when 00:16:06.038 --> 00:16:09.518 a client calls and says, I'm trying to open the EPS file on the smell opening. 00:16:09.968 --> 00:16:10.358 Yup. 00:16:10.808 --> 00:16:11.018 Yup. 00:16:11.203 --> 00:16:14.763 So I also included, and I didn't mention this, but I also include a little, a 00:16:14.783 --> 00:16:18.395 file type cheat sheet, a PDF when I packaged everything up that basically 00:16:18.685 --> 00:16:23.134 Hey, here's, I'm gonna give you a PDF and EPS, what, wherever those file types are. 00:16:23.524 --> 00:16:26.287 And this is optimal place to use these file types. 00:16:26.563 --> 00:16:28.933 You're open EPS value you're gonn an EPS file place it right. 00:16:29.383 --> 00:16:31.093 You're probably not gonna place into a document. 00:16:31.433 --> 00:16:32.908 Another designer the yeah. 00:16:33.540 --> 00:16:35.930 I have a little cheat sheet in there that kind of gets them started on that. 00:16:36.275 --> 00:16:37.145 Robby: Okay, great. 00:16:37.175 --> 00:16:39.095 Mike, what would you add to that? 00:16:39.095 --> 00:16:43.145 How do you explain to folks why you're giving them these different versions 00:16:43.145 --> 00:16:44.675 and when and where they should use. 00:16:44.941 --> 00:16:47.491 Mike Brennan: Yeah, it really comes down to educating. 00:16:47.941 --> 00:16:52.501 You don't want to get too in the weeds with people, this is rest, or this 00:16:52.501 --> 00:16:53.911 is vector, and here's what you know. 00:16:54.401 --> 00:16:59.726 But I think having them understand that there are different contexts and context 00:16:59.726 --> 00:17:02.156 is important and you don't want a file. 00:17:02.156 --> 00:17:07.646 That's too big on a website because it's going to load really slowly and people are 00:17:07.646 --> 00:17:09.356 going to not wait around for it to look. 00:17:09.628 --> 00:17:15.722 You don't want a really small and lower resolution file logo file for prints, 00:17:15.742 --> 00:17:17.312 because then it's going to print out. 00:17:17.312 --> 00:17:19.592 It's going to be a little fuzzy and pixelated, and 00:17:19.592 --> 00:17:20.364 it's not going to look Right. 00:17:20.385 --> 00:17:25.335 Where possible, if I have examples of that, I try to show that so that I 00:17:25.335 --> 00:17:28.367 say, sometimes you may have seen this, you've come across this in a magazine. 00:17:28.424 --> 00:17:30.554 Somebody had an oops, somebody got fired that day. 00:17:30.554 --> 00:17:31.844 That was not a good day for somebody. 00:17:31.863 --> 00:17:33.693 And I said, this stuff happens and this is why. 00:17:34.263 --> 00:17:36.253 This is why this stuff is important. 00:17:36.253 --> 00:17:40.482 And then also, with resolution, there's also, color profiles, understanding 00:17:40.482 --> 00:17:42.304 that, there's a printing process. 00:17:42.304 --> 00:17:46.364 And so that process requires a different type of coloring as 00:17:46.364 --> 00:17:48.144 opposed to what on a screen. 00:17:48.474 --> 00:17:51.335 And then there's always conversations. 00:17:51.335 --> 00:17:53.834 Sometimes they're a little bit difficult where it's I don't understand why 00:17:53.834 --> 00:17:55.184 this looks one way on my screen. 00:17:55.184 --> 00:17:56.744 And then another way when I print this out, 00:17:57.369 --> 00:17:58.361 What's the deal with that. 00:17:58.428 --> 00:18:02.148 And again, really, it comes down to just trying to educate a little 00:18:02.148 --> 00:18:06.371 bit more and have people understand that, you're dealing with different 00:18:06.371 --> 00:18:11.042 processes, and different, a screen is gonna interact with color very 00:18:11.072 --> 00:18:12.812 different than a piece of paper. 00:18:13.104 --> 00:18:17.859 And I think the biggest thing is just being patient and open to having 00:18:17.859 --> 00:18:19.474 those conversations on both sides. 00:18:19.474 --> 00:18:24.183 For a designer, a lot of times we have to back things up and make things 00:18:24.183 --> 00:18:27.943 more basic because our world we're dealing with this stuff all the time. 00:18:28.168 --> 00:18:29.638 So it's easy to forget that. 00:18:29.668 --> 00:18:29.968 Oh yeah. 00:18:29.998 --> 00:18:31.438 Like they don't know what that is. 00:18:31.468 --> 00:18:33.148 They don't understand the context for that. 00:18:33.388 --> 00:18:37.405 So making sure that there's patients and again just an education. 00:18:37.671 --> 00:18:38.661 The piece that's there. 00:18:38.901 --> 00:18:42.503 And then on the other side, I think it's, where obviously not, everybody's 00:18:42.503 --> 00:18:46.194 going to be interested in, to know different degrees of, exactly why 00:18:46.194 --> 00:18:49.194 and all that kind of stuff, but at least some working understanding of 00:18:49.194 --> 00:18:53.004 why there are all these different file types and what to do with them. 00:18:53.041 --> 00:18:53.971 Some reference-based. 00:18:54.485 --> 00:18:58.785 Robby: To make sure we're super clear, what the guys are saying is 00:18:58.995 --> 00:19:02.895 you really have two worlds that these live in one is something on a screen. 00:19:03.172 --> 00:19:05.362 And that's going to usually be on a website. 00:19:05.392 --> 00:19:09.052 Maybe you're using it in a PowerPoint presentation or something like that. 00:19:09.502 --> 00:19:10.732 And then there's another world. 00:19:11.092 --> 00:19:15.742 And that's the world where you work with a printer, anything from the printer, laser 00:19:15.742 --> 00:19:17.872 printer in your home office or whatever. 00:19:18.232 --> 00:19:21.592 But particularly if you're going to work with a professional printer for 00:19:21.592 --> 00:19:26.392 a business card or some sort of sales sheet that you're going to get printed. 00:19:26.842 --> 00:19:30.502 Those are two different worlds and they require a version of your logo 00:19:30.772 --> 00:19:32.782 that's appropriate for each world. 00:19:33.317 --> 00:19:36.077 Jason, if you were recommending to our audience, Hey, if you're 00:19:36.077 --> 00:19:40.667 working with a designer on your visual identity, I would recommend 00:19:40.667 --> 00:19:44.397 you at least get these file types. 00:19:44.763 --> 00:19:45.843 Can you walk us through that? 00:19:46.293 --> 00:19:49.473 Jason Clement: Yeah, it sounds really, sounds strange, but the number of 00:19:49.473 --> 00:19:52.983 people that have come to me without a vector version of their logo is 00:19:53.073 --> 00:19:56.027 insane, or they send me a 150 pages. 00:19:56.252 --> 00:19:59.012 JPEG that they got off Facebook say, here's my logo. 00:19:59.492 --> 00:20:02.043 So yeah, the number one thing is you want to affect your file. 00:20:02.073 --> 00:20:07.203 And again, I don't want to deep into it, but my vector file means you can resize 00:20:07.203 --> 00:20:08.793 it to whoever you need needed to be. 00:20:08.793 --> 00:20:10.053 It's not going to lose this quality. 00:20:10.053 --> 00:20:11.973 It's not going to get junkie quote unquote. 00:20:12.268 --> 00:20:12.488 Yup. 00:20:12.713 --> 00:20:15.773 so I think that's the number one thing is that you need to get in vector. 00:20:15.803 --> 00:20:17.500 And then from that vector file, you can. 00:20:17.728 --> 00:20:18.688 Anything else you need. 00:20:18.718 --> 00:20:22.405 So I usually give people I think I'd give five different file types 00:20:22.435 --> 00:20:25.450 and then, and I think I actually say in there you can pretty much create 00:20:25.450 --> 00:20:26.650 anything you want from this vector 00:20:27.144 --> 00:20:30.671 Robby: sure you get a vector file from your designer. 00:20:30.821 --> 00:20:35.186 That's typically going to end in dot EPS . And you probably don't have 00:20:35.186 --> 00:20:36.836 any way of opening that on computer. 00:20:36.836 --> 00:20:37.466 That's fine. 00:20:37.466 --> 00:20:37.946 That's one. 00:20:37.946 --> 00:20:42.266 That's going to go to a printer and you give that to Mike or Jason 00:20:42.266 --> 00:20:44.066 or myself, and we're good to go. 00:20:44.156 --> 00:20:47.696 We can do anything we need to do from that as well as a professional printer. 00:20:48.176 --> 00:20:53.096 Sometimes if they did it in a program like Adobe illustrator, it would be.ai. 00:20:53.546 --> 00:20:55.976 And then sometimes it's dot PDF. 00:20:56.286 --> 00:20:58.726 So you need some version that's vector. 00:20:59.176 --> 00:21:01.666 Mike, what's the other version they need for screen? 00:21:01.891 --> 00:21:02.131 Mike Brennan: Yeah. 00:21:02.161 --> 00:21:06.331 I typically steer people towards PNG files with a transparent background 00:21:06.391 --> 00:21:07.771 because it's most versatile. 00:21:08.231 --> 00:21:10.081 Sometimes people say can you give me a JPEG? 00:21:10.081 --> 00:21:10.956 And That's fine. 00:21:10.956 --> 00:21:14.230 I can give people a JPEG too, but the pitfall that people fall 00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:17.834 into sometimes is they're so used to a JPEG and they ask for that. 00:21:17.834 --> 00:21:21.895 And then I have to explain the reason why sometimes you see like your logo and this 00:21:21.895 --> 00:21:25.675 big ugly white box around it, and then the color of the website, like that's 00:21:25.675 --> 00:21:27.385 because there's no transparent background. 00:21:27.447 --> 00:21:29.756 It's fused onto a piece of paper. 00:21:29.756 --> 00:21:31.134 It's you can't do anything with that. 00:21:31.134 --> 00:21:34.426 That's why a PNG with a transparent background is really important. 00:21:34.476 --> 00:21:35.676 Robby: So those are the two. 00:21:35.676 --> 00:21:38.886 At a bare minimum you need some sort of vector file, probably 00:21:38.886 --> 00:21:40.806 dot EPS, and you're totally safe. 00:21:41.316 --> 00:21:46.086 And then if you want to use it on a screen, you probably want at least a PNG 00:21:46.086 --> 00:21:51.216 file, not a JPEG because that's the one where it's transparent around your logo. 00:21:51.216 --> 00:21:55.626 You don't get a rectangle or a square of a solid color behind your logo. 00:21:55.626 --> 00:21:59.046 At some point, you're going to want to stick your logo on some other color and 00:21:59.046 --> 00:22:01.206 not have this built-in box around it. 00:22:01.741 --> 00:22:04.471 At a bare minimum, you should be looking for those two things. 00:22:04.801 --> 00:22:05.131 Okay. 00:22:05.131 --> 00:22:08.041 Now I'm going to wait us into the deep end real quick. 00:22:08.491 --> 00:22:09.691 We all know it's coming. 00:22:10.051 --> 00:22:10.591 Okay. 00:22:10.681 --> 00:22:11.671 Here's the question. 00:22:11.701 --> 00:22:12.961 I'm a personal brand. 00:22:13.541 --> 00:22:15.823 You guys sound expensive to me. 00:22:16.153 --> 00:22:21.703 Why can't I just go over to fill in the blank Fiverr or some other place 00:22:21.703 --> 00:22:28.677 or men or my nephew's friend and just get my logo, whatever I need for $25. 00:22:28.677 --> 00:22:29.097 Come on. 00:22:29.097 --> 00:22:29.967 You guys are full of it. 00:22:29.967 --> 00:22:33.957 Why can't I just go do that, Jason, why can't I just go 00:22:33.957 --> 00:22:36.746 pay $25 or $5 and get a logo. 00:22:36.971 --> 00:22:41.013 Jason Clement: I mean for me it's about having a relationship with that client and 00:22:41.043 --> 00:22:44.763 learning that brand, knowing that brand would be able to create all the other 00:22:44.763 --> 00:22:46.610 pieces we talked about for that person. 00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:49.650 And it's about creating a relationship and, those questions. 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:53.082 We talked about getting, getting in deep with that brand to help. 00:22:53.082 --> 00:22:56.717 And I'm not sure, I don't want to throw a fight and run or the bus right? 00:22:57.257 --> 00:22:57.557 Yep. 00:22:57.732 --> 00:22:57.882 I'm 00:22:57.977 --> 00:22:58.457 Mike Brennan: Yes, you do. 00:22:58.512 --> 00:22:59.772 Jason Clement: that kind of yes. 00:23:00.222 --> 00:23:00.642 Thank you. 00:23:01.092 --> 00:23:01.302 Yeah. 00:23:01.332 --> 00:23:03.492 I'm not sure you get that kind of relationship with that kind of deep 00:23:03.582 --> 00:23:06.022 attention to detail in other situations, 00:23:06.311 --> 00:23:06.581 Robby: Yep. 00:23:06.821 --> 00:23:08.411 Mike, what would you add to that? 00:23:08.411 --> 00:23:12.431 Why can't I just go get a logo for $5, $10 or whatever? 00:23:12.881 --> 00:23:16.151 Mike Brennan: Yeah, because you're not just paying for a pair of hands. 00:23:16.467 --> 00:23:17.517 It's more than that. 00:23:17.567 --> 00:23:18.797 You're paying for brain. 00:23:18.797 --> 00:23:21.917 You're paying for someone to think through context like we talked about 00:23:21.917 --> 00:23:26.882 before and making sure that you're going to be good on the other side of this. 00:23:27.107 --> 00:23:30.197 Sometimes people just look at the final product, if you will. 00:23:30.197 --> 00:23:32.472 And they say I want something that looks professional. 00:23:32.472 --> 00:23:36.263 I want something that looks great, but how it's constructed is also very 00:23:36.263 --> 00:23:39.833 important as we talked about, because if you end up on the other side and you've 00:23:39.833 --> 00:23:43.503 been painted into a corner, spent a lot of time, energy, effort, and money. 00:23:43.953 --> 00:23:46.953 On something that all of a sudden it's useless and you need to start over or 00:23:46.953 --> 00:23:49.593 bring it to someone who can try to fix it. 00:23:49.693 --> 00:23:52.922 This happens a lot of times for us, I'm sure you get Jason's shaking is 00:23:52.922 --> 00:23:56.056 head, where people come to us and say, Hey, I had somebody else try and create 00:23:56.056 --> 00:23:57.826 something for me, but it just didn't work. 00:23:57.856 --> 00:23:59.026 Can you take a look at this? 00:23:59.026 --> 00:24:01.036 Or can we do something else with this? 00:24:01.036 --> 00:24:03.136 Because I needed to use it in this context. 00:24:03.136 --> 00:24:04.409 And now I can't. 00:24:04.409 --> 00:24:05.173 So I'm stuck. 00:24:05.503 --> 00:24:07.553 So starting the right way. 00:24:07.778 --> 00:24:09.488 It will save you a lot of headaches. 00:24:09.548 --> 00:24:11.138 It'll save you a lot of expense. 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.343 It may seem like it won't because you're thinking like if I go to 00:24:14.343 --> 00:24:17.523 Fiverr, Hey, that's a lot cheaper, but again, you're going to end 00:24:17.523 --> 00:24:19.023 up having to redo stuff anyway. 00:24:19.033 --> 00:24:20.693 So just do it right the first time. 00:24:21.423 --> 00:24:28.173 Robby: You will likely change your brand at best, maybe once every 10 years. 00:24:28.623 --> 00:24:33.707 So if you look at what it takes to swap out logos and colors and start 00:24:33.707 --> 00:24:37.602 over, put it in the category of literally legally changing your name. 00:24:37.602 --> 00:24:38.742 Can you do it tomorrow? 00:24:39.012 --> 00:24:39.552 Absolutely. 00:24:39.552 --> 00:24:39.912 You can. 00:24:40.362 --> 00:24:44.562 It's a big headache with costs and expenses and red tape and government 00:24:44.562 --> 00:24:45.372 and all that kind of stuff. 00:24:45.552 --> 00:24:47.052 Can you then change it again? 00:24:47.052 --> 00:24:49.212 Technically the week after that? 00:24:49.227 --> 00:24:52.337 You can, I don't think there's a law against how many times you can go do that. 00:24:52.937 --> 00:24:53.837 Who does that? 00:24:53.837 --> 00:24:56.267 Nobody, because it's way too big of a hassle. 00:24:56.267 --> 00:24:59.087 So we're here to tell you, put the brakes on. 00:24:59.087 --> 00:25:02.687 If there's one time to not ready, shoot, aim. 00:25:02.957 --> 00:25:07.277 This is one of those times because you can't just go swap 00:25:07.277 --> 00:25:10.397 this out every 18 months and go, yeah, I didn't really like that. 00:25:10.397 --> 00:25:11.717 So I'm going to start all over. 00:25:12.017 --> 00:25:13.307 Any thoughts you would add to that? 00:25:13.757 --> 00:25:14.387 Jason Clement: Yeah, agree. 00:25:14.387 --> 00:25:18.368 It's easy to all the parts of that extends to it's really why 00:25:18.368 --> 00:25:21.053 big brands spend millions and millions of dollars when right. 00:25:21.114 --> 00:25:24.379 I'm sure they get a knot in their stomach more Oh yeah. 00:25:25.299 --> 00:25:25.529 Robby: Yeah. 00:25:25.979 --> 00:25:29.849 And we've seen several examples of those when they do that big brand, does that. 00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:33.089 Perhaps big brand writes a very big check for that. 00:25:33.159 --> 00:25:37.023 We know that whoever they write a check to didn't do a good job 00:25:37.023 --> 00:25:38.703 of actually talking to customers. 00:25:39.183 --> 00:25:41.823 It gets in front of customers and what's the response. 00:25:41.973 --> 00:25:43.563 Customers go ballistic. 00:25:43.923 --> 00:25:44.613 They hate it. 00:25:44.973 --> 00:25:46.593 And we've seen big brands. 00:25:46.653 --> 00:25:51.093 The check's already been cashed for it to the agency that did it. 00:25:51.363 --> 00:25:55.822 And big brands literally revert right back to the old. 00:25:55.872 --> 00:26:00.112 Of the visual identity because it caused such a backlash. 00:26:00.112 --> 00:26:03.812 So these are big things you don't do them often. 00:26:04.172 --> 00:26:08.612 They do represent you like everywhere it is going to represent you. 00:26:08.912 --> 00:26:10.262 So this is one of those times. 00:26:10.262 --> 00:26:11.541 Yes it's good to do it. 00:26:11.596 --> 00:26:12.057 And do it. 00:26:12.282 --> 00:26:13.872 Okay, let's talk. 00:26:13.872 --> 00:26:18.366 Let's maybe as we look to start to land the plane here, I want 00:26:18.426 --> 00:26:20.586 to talk about two final things. 00:26:20.586 --> 00:26:24.606 One, I would love to talk briefly about websites. 00:26:24.606 --> 00:26:26.163 I know Jason, that's your pardon? 00:26:26.163 --> 00:26:27.483 The pun domain. 00:26:27.723 --> 00:26:28.233 Hello. 00:26:28.306 --> 00:26:30.766 So we'll talk just for a second about that. 00:26:30.826 --> 00:26:35.008 And then I'll circle around with one kind of final question for both of us. 00:26:35.008 --> 00:26:38.394 So Jason personal brands website. 00:26:38.844 --> 00:26:43.814 If there are one or two, tips you could give us about what do I 00:26:43.814 --> 00:26:50.094 need to either plan ahead of time before I come to you or another 00:26:50.094 --> 00:26:51.744 web designer for my personal brand? 00:26:51.964 --> 00:26:56.614 What does that web designer, what should they be asking me in order to wind up 00:26:56.974 --> 00:26:59.847 with a good personal brand websites? 00:26:59.897 --> 00:27:01.277 Jason Clement: One thing photography yet. 00:27:01.697 --> 00:27:03.047 I think photography is a huge thing. 00:27:03.507 --> 00:27:06.837 It's extremely helpful and some photos that you can talk about that are you. 00:27:07.062 --> 00:27:07.302 Yup. 00:27:07.897 --> 00:27:09.254 no, way that photos are taking. 00:27:09.854 --> 00:27:11.324 I think a photography, huge thing. 00:27:11.324 --> 00:27:14.294 The other thing that I run into a lot is people will change 00:27:14.294 --> 00:27:16.053 directions midstream, right? 00:27:16.233 --> 00:27:17.643 Oh, you've already done the word. 00:27:18.153 --> 00:27:19.953 the blueprint to my house and kitchens in the front. 00:27:19.953 --> 00:27:21.003 There's two bedrooms in the back. 00:27:21.153 --> 00:27:22.113 There's two bathrooms. 00:27:22.593 --> 00:27:24.903 then in the middle of building this house, they said, you know what? 00:27:24.903 --> 00:27:26.653 I really want the kitchen in the back now. 00:27:26.704 --> 00:27:30.640 So really important to nail those things down and have them set, make sure what 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.998 you're doing before you get weeds. 00:27:33.158 --> 00:27:35.072 Robby: Yes, that's so helpful. 00:27:35.402 --> 00:27:38.582 And I will reiterate, we all know the saying a picture 00:27:39.062 --> 00:27:41.565 is worth a thousand words. 00:27:41.790 --> 00:27:47.430 That means a mediocre picture is like paying Jason money to put a thousand 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:50.410 mediocre, put me to sleep, boring words. 00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:55.195 So Jason, you could do a killer design. 00:27:55.195 --> 00:27:56.935 This could be the one that Jason goes. 00:27:57.265 --> 00:28:00.055 This is clearly the best home page I've ever designed. 00:28:00.625 --> 00:28:03.415 And then I give you one of those mediocre. 00:28:03.865 --> 00:28:07.615 My, my wife took this picture of me on an iPhone on our beach vacation. 00:28:07.825 --> 00:28:08.965 always loved this picture. 00:28:09.175 --> 00:28:10.315 Can you use this, Jason? 00:28:10.315 --> 00:28:12.745 What does that do your Picasso? 00:28:13.195 --> 00:28:14.605 Jason Clement: Yeah, it changes the entire feel. 00:28:15.270 --> 00:28:16.470 Robby: We're not saying bad picture. 00:28:17.010 --> 00:28:22.653 We're saying one average takes Jason's 11 point design on a scale 00:28:22.653 --> 00:28:27.783 of one to 10, he hit an 11 and now you're sitting at a solid 5.25 00:28:28.293 --> 00:28:30.273 just by the one mediocre picture.. 00:28:30.783 --> 00:28:35.077 Then Mike you've seen it or experienced if not in a web design 00:28:36.007 --> 00:28:37.717 social media graphics, you've got. 00:28:37.992 --> 00:28:42.312 Great plan I'm hiring you out to do is put some social media templates for 00:28:42.312 --> 00:28:48.312 me, and you've got ideas and then I send you my mediocre to terrible logo. 00:28:48.762 --> 00:28:49.902 Oh, as designers. 00:28:50.172 --> 00:28:50.892 not the worst? 00:28:50.892 --> 00:28:53.622 You're like, how do I not their logo? 00:28:53.897 --> 00:28:56.477 I have in fact use texts in a 00:28:56.527 --> 00:28:57.157 Yes. 00:28:57.277 --> 00:28:57.637 Yeah. 00:28:57.667 --> 00:28:58.717 If you ever get 00:28:58.747 --> 00:29:00.497 Jason Clement: sick put your logo footer. 00:29:00.947 --> 00:29:03.077 Robby: and boy, is it going to be small? 00:29:03.352 --> 00:29:03.592 Okay. 00:29:03.592 --> 00:29:05.242 So that goes back to what we were just talking about. 00:29:05.272 --> 00:29:09.058 That's why don't shortcut yourself on the visual identity and the logo 00:29:09.388 --> 00:29:11.348 because we are here to tell you. 00:29:11.573 --> 00:29:15.653 you want to talk about what drags are, work on your behalf, down to 00:29:15.653 --> 00:29:20.423 the ground, fast, poor pictures, and just a mediocre or bad luck. 00:29:20.453 --> 00:29:21.743 We literally can't hide it. 00:29:21.773 --> 00:29:24.923 We've all designed around it as best we possibly could. 00:29:25.493 --> 00:29:29.663 And we still can't sleep at night because the one thing that's wrong with that 00:29:29.663 --> 00:29:34.637 design before we have a big meeting with you tomorrow is the logo you forced on us. 00:29:35.052 --> 00:29:36.535 So be very careful with that. 00:29:36.875 --> 00:29:40.434 Mike, anything else you might add to that when it comes to websites and 00:29:40.434 --> 00:29:43.327 what you would, what you've seen or what you would recommend to somebody? 00:29:43.977 --> 00:29:44.727 Mike Brennan: Yeah, I think. 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:48.563 Think about usability, and the end user, because a lot of times 00:29:48.803 --> 00:29:52.574 people get caught up in here's all the things I want to have there. 00:29:52.634 --> 00:29:53.684 Here's all the information. 00:29:53.684 --> 00:29:56.920 Here's all, and it's just, it becomes a lot of stuff and a lot of noise. 00:29:56.924 --> 00:29:59.856 But if somebody can't navigate that and they don't know where things 00:29:59.856 --> 00:30:03.546 are, then you could have even the best stuff up there, but it's 00:30:03.546 --> 00:30:05.556 useless because nobody can find it. 00:30:05.586 --> 00:30:06.756 Nobody knows what to do with it. 00:30:06.829 --> 00:30:07.569 I think having. 00:30:07.861 --> 00:30:13.431 Thought through as far as, what is your what is your menu structure look like? 00:30:13.431 --> 00:30:17.131 And how do people access things go for clear over clever. 00:30:17.181 --> 00:30:20.721 Because a lot of times, if you're too clever, you're going to lose people. 00:30:21.171 --> 00:30:23.671 And again, then it really does not serve you. 00:30:23.696 --> 00:30:28.016 It may look great or it may seem like it's a fun thing, but again, 00:30:28.196 --> 00:30:29.436 it's not doing what it's supposed to. 00:30:29.436 --> 00:30:30.801 Robby: So that's tough for us. 00:30:30.801 --> 00:30:31.821 We all admit. 00:30:32.241 --> 00:30:36.349 We're three creatives on the podcast and we're all dropping her head's 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:39.689 a little bit and admitting, if forced between the choice between 00:30:39.689 --> 00:30:41.694 creative or clear, go clear. 00:30:41.969 --> 00:30:42.209 Okay. 00:30:42.209 --> 00:30:42.839 Last question. 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:46.990 I want to ask us , what would be one piece of advice you would 00:30:46.990 --> 00:30:50.800 give a personal brand when they're about to work with a designer? 00:30:51.234 --> 00:30:53.554 Jason Clement: I think it's for me, it's about the relationship thing that 00:30:53.944 --> 00:30:55.174 talked about a couple of times today. 00:30:55.834 --> 00:30:57.604 so I want you to be honest with me. 00:30:58.084 --> 00:31:00.064 You can't really hurt my feelings. 00:31:00.424 --> 00:31:03.154 It doesn't mean I'm not going to end this zoom call and scream out. 00:31:03.388 --> 00:31:07.258 But want you to be honest with I want you to give detailed feedback. 00:31:07.258 --> 00:31:09.058 I don't want you to say, I don't like that color. 00:31:09.568 --> 00:31:11.278 I want you to say I don't like that color because. 00:31:11.368 --> 00:31:14.728 Or I don't want to say I don't like that typography because. 00:31:15.118 --> 00:31:16.348 I want detailed feedback. 00:31:16.764 --> 00:31:19.063 Because like job is created just to sell our art. 00:31:19.132 --> 00:31:21.122 Say, Hey, I did X, Y, and Z, because of these. 00:31:21.122 --> 00:31:23.852 So I can't, I need to be able to justify what I did. 00:31:23.852 --> 00:31:26.133 And if you can't tell me why you don't like something, I can't, we can't 00:31:26.133 --> 00:31:27.483 really have much conversation there. 00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:29.119 And then it just becomes a back and forth. 00:31:29.679 --> 00:31:29.979 Robby: Yeah. 00:31:30.009 --> 00:31:30.279 Okay. 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:35.619 So relationship with your designer so that you can give feedback 00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:37.509 that actually helps the designer. 00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:40.119 So just saying, I don't know, I'm not sure. 00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:41.829 I don't like that's okay. 00:31:42.489 --> 00:31:42.879 It's just. 00:31:43.168 --> 00:31:44.848 It's not particularly helpful. 00:31:44.848 --> 00:31:48.858 So have the relationship where you can go all in and say, I don't like this because. 00:31:49.308 --> 00:31:51.900 Mike what advice would you give on personal brand? 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:57.660 I'm listening in, how can I be the best client my next designer has ever hired 00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:59.580 or I've ever hired or worked with. 00:32:00.190 --> 00:32:03.215 Mike Brennan: I would come back to the whole idea of clarity because. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:08.360 While someone may not understand certain contexts and there needs to 00:32:08.360 --> 00:32:12.500 be discussion and education around design and what needs to happen. 00:32:12.950 --> 00:32:18.260 I think there's times where people aren't clear on their own goals 00:32:18.290 --> 00:32:23.390 and their own identity, or like what it is that they're doing. 00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:28.700 And they're still in process on that and they've jumped the gun to go, 00:32:28.700 --> 00:32:30.250 Hey, now I need a logo and branding. 00:32:30.635 --> 00:32:35.885 And then when you get in further down into things, they start to shift some 00:32:35.885 --> 00:32:38.435 pretty significant things can happen. 00:32:38.615 --> 00:32:42.425 And then you're like, we've already established a strategy moving 00:32:42.425 --> 00:32:43.835 forward for this and a plan. 00:32:43.865 --> 00:32:46.355 And now some pretty major things are changing. 00:32:46.355 --> 00:32:52.475 So I would say, make sure that you have thought that stuff through before you go 00:32:52.475 --> 00:32:58.590 to a designer Solid on who you are, what you do, what you know, who you serve, how 00:32:58.590 --> 00:33:03.420 you serve those things so that you can bring that to the conversation, because 00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:07.800 that is going to be key to knowing and filling in a lot of the other information 00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:09.210 that needs to happen from there. 00:33:09.294 --> 00:33:13.499 That's the right time to do that is not with the designer or as the 00:33:13.499 --> 00:33:15.437 process of design is unfolding. 00:33:15.438 --> 00:33:19.338 So do the homework upfront as sometimes it's difficult as that can. 00:33:19.965 --> 00:33:21.345 You will be better off for it. 00:33:21.345 --> 00:33:21.855 Believe me. 00:33:22.629 --> 00:33:23.169 Robby: Okay. 00:33:23.409 --> 00:33:26.969 Mike, tell us where we can find you and maybe something, a personal brand 00:33:26.969 --> 00:33:28.979 listening and can go grab right now? 00:33:29.439 --> 00:33:29.769 Mike Brennan: Yeah. 00:33:30.159 --> 00:33:36.429 So for my design stuff, it's Mike Brennan designs with an s.com and I do have social 00:33:36.429 --> 00:33:39.219 media templates that are canvas related. 00:33:39.219 --> 00:33:44.339 So I know canvas is a a good resource for people who, if they don't have 00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:48.809 the ability to hire a designer on retainer to do ongoing design, 00:33:48.809 --> 00:33:52.619 or maybe they have a certain team member that they want to task out. 00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:54.239 Kind of have it template. 00:33:54.569 --> 00:33:56.969 I have a template that they know that they can depend on. 00:33:56.969 --> 00:33:58.859 So that there's consistency we talked about before. 00:33:59.229 --> 00:34:03.091 I've created a whole bunch of those, whether it's for podcasting or for 00:34:03.361 --> 00:34:08.104 Instagram, Facebook posts for personal brands specifically you can go to digital 00:34:08.104 --> 00:34:11.944 downloads on my website that I just mentioned, Mike Brennan designs.com 00:34:12.334 --> 00:34:13.684 and I have some of those for sale. 00:34:13.684 --> 00:34:14.584 They're pretty cheap. 00:34:14.734 --> 00:34:16.594 And again, it just gives you a canvas link. 00:34:16.624 --> 00:34:21.343 That is a template that then you can plug in your own either photos, colors, 00:34:21.429 --> 00:34:24.097 anything to customize for your own needs? 00:34:24.347 --> 00:34:24.917 Robby: Awesome. 00:34:25.397 --> 00:34:28.767 Okay, Jason, where can folks find you? 00:34:28.992 --> 00:34:29.722 Jason Clement: You can find me. 00:34:29.902 --> 00:34:31.762 I want to talk about Canberra real quick. 00:34:31.762 --> 00:34:33.682 Am I the only one that fought tooth 00:34:34.032 --> 00:34:34.512 Mike Brennan: Yes. 00:34:34.572 --> 00:34:34.992 Oh my 00:34:35.032 --> 00:34:38.302 Jason Clement: had nightmares about Canva and I'm like, it's pretty 00:34:38.472 --> 00:34:38.772 Mike Brennan: Yep. 00:34:39.222 --> 00:34:39.922 Jason Clement: Really useful. 00:34:40.422 --> 00:34:41.412 Mike Brennan: It's another tool. 00:34:41.412 --> 00:34:42.222 It's another tool, 00:34:42.477 --> 00:34:44.277 Robby: you're still cool if you use canvas. 00:34:44.307 --> 00:34:44.607 Okay. 00:34:44.607 --> 00:34:45.237 Were we 00:34:45.237 --> 00:34:45.867 Jason Clement: all admitted? 00:34:45.897 --> 00:34:46.227 laugh. 00:34:46.707 --> 00:34:49.392 the links you sent, like it's super easy for people to use and I'm 00:34:49.847 --> 00:34:51.309 Mike Brennan: Yes, I oh, I'm with you, 00:34:51.554 --> 00:34:53.264 Robby: There's gotta be something wrong with this. 00:34:53.294 --> 00:34:54.734 It can't be this easy. 00:34:54.786 --> 00:34:58.323 So where can they find you in where, what could, what can they 00:34:58.323 --> 00:34:59.523 reach out to you for help with? 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.700 Jason Clement: All right, so you can find me at Jason dot com. 00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:04.546 You can find some of my work on. 00:35:04.832 --> 00:35:06.032 You can contact on there. 00:35:06.032 --> 00:35:08.886 I love personal brands and websites, awesome. 00:35:09.336 --> 00:35:11.406 but I also design all sorts of other things. 00:35:11.406 --> 00:35:11.676 So 00:35:12.081 --> 00:35:12.321 Yup. 00:35:12.366 --> 00:35:13.716 I've been of book covers lately, 00:35:13.821 --> 00:35:14.541 Robby: Yes. 00:35:14.571 --> 00:35:18.981 You're listening to the you're the brand book cover designer, Jason 00:35:18.981 --> 00:35:23.441 Clement, ladies and gentlemen on the podcast show today among other things. 00:35:23.441 --> 00:35:24.915 So I told you've seen his work. 00:35:24.915 --> 00:35:26.565 Fellas, this has been a lot of fun. 00:35:26.685 --> 00:35:30.172 It's fun to have three creatives on a podcast Hopefully this 00:35:30.172 --> 00:35:32.242 really helps folks know... 00:35:32.842 --> 00:35:36.532 what they need to look for in a designer, how they need to think about their 00:35:36.532 --> 00:35:40.282 visual identity, what to do with those files after you've paid money for them. 00:35:40.817 --> 00:35:44.147 So we'll summarize where you can find these guys in the show notes. 00:35:44.357 --> 00:35:48.107 We'll also summarize some of those key points so that you 00:35:48.198 --> 00:35:49.878 you have some clear takeaways. 00:35:50.355 --> 00:35:52.663 Jason, Mike, thanks so much for coming on the show. 00:35:53.198 --> 00:35:53.718 Mike Brennan: Thanks Robby. 00:35:54.168 --> 00:35:54.948 Jason Clement: Thanks for having me Robby. 00:35:55.223 --> 00:35:57.893 Robby: Thanks for joining me on this episode today. 00:35:58.073 --> 00:36:03.143 It's great to have two wonderful designers with me collaborating together. 00:36:03.386 --> 00:36:06.686 It's great to have their help and answer those three important questions. 00:36:06.736 --> 00:36:09.076 What do you need to look for in a designer? 00:36:09.106 --> 00:36:12.826 How do you need to think about your visual identity when working with 00:36:12.826 --> 00:36:14.416 a designer as a personal brand? 00:36:14.716 --> 00:36:18.526 And what to do with those files that you have paid money for when 00:36:18.526 --> 00:36:20.894 they give those files over to you. 00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:26.109 If you're not already subscribed to my 4 Wins on Friday email, 00:36:26.319 --> 00:36:27.969 I would invite you to do that. 00:36:27.969 --> 00:36:29.559 The feedback has been great. 00:36:29.889 --> 00:36:35.479 I'll put a link to that in the show notes, you can go to Robbyf.com/friday, 00:36:35.769 --> 00:36:40.119 and you can see all of the reviews and the feedback people are giving. 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:41.199 So I'd love to see you there. 00:36:41.229 --> 00:36:43.119 That's where I put my best effort. 00:36:43.479 --> 00:36:45.219 So I'd love to have you on that list. 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.229 You get four wins every Friday. 00:36:47.229 --> 00:36:49.209 It takes you less than two minutes to read. 00:36:49.209 --> 00:36:50.139 So join me there. 00:36:50.539 --> 00:36:52.849 If this has been helpful for you, share it with someone. 00:36:53.209 --> 00:36:58.279 And as always, if you go leave a rating or a review on apple podcast, 00:36:58.669 --> 00:37:02.209 That is a great way to get this in the hands of more folks. 00:37:02.209 --> 00:37:05.809 Until the next episode go and build a life giving brand.