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Hi, welcome to Sober Banter.

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I'm Colin.

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And I'm Rachel.

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And we have a guest today.

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We have Nathan.

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and i'm nathan and uh yeah chicago nathan well indiana tennessee chicago yeah yeah

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never never never lived in chicago but but love the love the cubs so we were there

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the year visiting um that it was like the next year that they won or that year it

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was like a vibe in the city for sure it was a vibe yeah it was a bit yeah it was

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It was either anti-Trump t-shirts or Chicago Cubs.

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Yeah, something like that.

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Those were the two vibes I remember.

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And that was it.

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I'll have to tell you my giving up story on the Cubs because the last game of the series,

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there was a rain delay and I thought they'll just reschedule this game and the Cubs

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are going to lose anyways.

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That was my mindset, right?

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Because the Cubs, that's what they're known for.

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Oh, yeah.

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They don't win the World Series.

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And so I went to bed and the rain delay lifted and the Cubs won the World Series.

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And I woke up the next morning so mad at myself because I missed it.

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Yeah, I mean, but if you've seen all the games leading up to it, I feel like.

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You still get to celebrate the win for the whole year.

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Yeah, that reminds me.

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I was 10 years old when something similar happened.

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I was trying to stay up to watch the Dallas Stars win the Stanley Cup.

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It went into, I think, three overtimes in 98, 99.

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I was 10 and fell asleep.

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My dad just woke me up on the couch and said, hey, the Stars won the Stanley Cup.

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I was like, huh?

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What?

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He just went back to bed.

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The next day, I think I was mad that he didn't wake me.

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He's like, I did wake you up.

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Yeah, I can relate a little bit.

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But like three seconds before it's over.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I just kind of equate, like, sports.

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I used to be drinking so much that I'm, like, in sobriety.

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If I got to see any of it,

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it's still,

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like,

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more than I would have remembered before I got sober.

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Because if they,

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like,

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if the Cowboys were in the playoffs,

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I mean,

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I was obliterated by that because I used that as an excuse.

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Like, oh, they're in the playoffs.

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And, you know, I couldn't even remember after half time.

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We hosted a lot of, like...

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sporting watching parties but i don't remember actually watching yeah we didn't

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watch the game and we like we like watching the game yeah but we were too busy

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hosting throwing back shots and making sure other people had shots and it was just

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kind of in the background or a reason to drink was hey come over we'll watch the

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game and never watch the game yeah so i mean i i never made it

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past the first quarter probably i mean you know of a football game you know i

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typically i would bar hop and and you know go with people and watch games and but i

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never could tell you what happened past the first quarter

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Yeah.

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And I mean, I'd be in the camaraderie because I'd be like, oh, they got a touchdown.

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Like, let's get shots.

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But it wasn't like I watched all the drives leading up to that.

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Yeah.

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And now I actually get to, like, enjoy, which we have gone to a Cowboys game sober.

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And it was so much fun.

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more fun to actually just like well it was still jerry world so it's just a lot

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going on but even just people watching watching the actual game seeing the like

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celebration of the fans like it was a lot

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I was, when I was drinking, I was like so numb to all of it, you know?

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And,

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um,

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I've since learned to,

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I have a little social anxiety,

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which again,

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drinking used to really mask or and accelerate.

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Um, until then I was no longer socially acceptable.

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I was asked, you know, to leave and, um, or I fell asleep.

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Either one, both worked.

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I used to I used to think like that that it made me a better person.

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Right.

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Like I was the more fun guy.

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And and the University of Tennessee a couple of years ago,

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I think it was two years ago,

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just legalized alcohol sales,

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beer sales in their stadiums.

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And yeah, that's the thing.

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Yeah.

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I remember going to a game when they first like were serving alcohol and thinking and,

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and watching people and thinking was,

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did I act like that?

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Like, was that, was that me?

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Because that's kind of embarrassing.

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Like,

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and not to throw shade on anybody,

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but like just,

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just thinking of,

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of how I acted and how I behaved and,

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and one just wondering,

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like,

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was it at that level or,

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knowing me, was it worse?

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Was it worse?

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Yeah.

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For the grace of God,

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there go I.

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And I mean,

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when that's why I've told like if sponsees or,

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or other people in who are sober are going to an event that they're like,

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I used to drink really heavy.

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I'm like, be of service, like do what people used to do for you.

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And you look at someone who might need a, like a,

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Water,

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you know,

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like,

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hey,

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maybe you can use a cup of water or something like because if you see someone,

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you've probably been there,

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too.

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And now it's your turn.

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So you can silently be the helper.

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And I don't know.

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It's being of service in those scenarios.

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Yeah.

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But I do want to.

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give a little uh we've kind of like i said we kind of just dive into it but um yeah

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i know your background is i'm interested i wasn't sure when he reached out if you

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yourself were sober so it's cool to see you were sober since 03 correct 2003 yeah

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In 2003.

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Wow.

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I mean,

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like speaking to teens and talking about especially the adverse childhood experiences,

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the ACEs,

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which I've learned about because I'm in school for addiction.

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And so taking like the.

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I had a high ACE score,

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so it was already it's it can get a little like I got triggered when I tried to go

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to adult children of alcoholics like.

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My therapist and I are working together until I have a little bit better base

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because I have such I have a pretty high score on that one.

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But how did you kind of get into that or what led you to going for the childhood teenage route?

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So it's it's the most random thing.

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I.

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I had had a pretty major back surgery and I couldn't keep doing the work that I was doing.

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I couldn't keep doing retail management and, um, or like working in a warehouse.

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And those are like my two go-to things that I would do.

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And, um, and so I had this friend and I, I called her and I said, Hey,

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I put in an application at a car dealership to sell cars.

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Would you be a reference for me?

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And she didn't call me back.

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Like, I just left her a message and she didn't call me back.

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And I thought, well, that that's awful.

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Like, I guess we're not friends.

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And you have to be like, can I still put you down, though?

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Maybe she'll answer their call.

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But she was actually on vacation and she shuts her phone off when she's on vacation

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to de-plug and all that stuff.

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And so when she got back,

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she said,

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Nathan,

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I know that you have worked with some kids at church and I've seen the way that you

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interact with them.

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And there's this job at a nonprofit that I'm on the board at.

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And I think you'd be a really good fit for this job.

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And so she gave me an email address and she said,

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send your,

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send your resume,

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but I'm just going to like kind of plug them in on who you are and all about you.

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And,

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and so I sent my resume and I got called for an interview and I went in and it's

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probably the easiest interview I've ever,

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I've ever been in.

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Cause she really just kind of like rolled out the red carpet,

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which was super nice,

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but also like set really high expectations for me,

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you know?

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And so I didn't know anything.

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I didn't know anything about anything.

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I learned everything about prevention, about substance misuse, about addiction, really.

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I mean, I knew my own stuff.

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I knew my own habits and I knew all of that, but I didn't know

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any of the lingo, any of the terms, how any of it worked, and how to prevent it.

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And I learned everything from the nonprofit that I worked for.

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And it was really kind of

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Kind of scary how it worked out because in my,

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in my first week,

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the person that was leaving was training me and,

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and it was Red Ribbon Week.

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Do you guys know what Red Ribbon Week is?

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Yeah, we do that.

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Yeah.

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Drug-free.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So it was Red Ribbon Week and,

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and they were like,

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Hey,

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we have an assembly scheduled at the school and I'm going to go in and I'm going to

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teach them about medication safety.

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And I was like, okay, cool.

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I'll just kind of stand up to the side and watch.

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Well,

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the day before the assembly,

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I came into work and,

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and the executive director was like,

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Hey,

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you're up.

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She quit.

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And, and I was like, what do you mean?

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I'm up.

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Like, I don't,

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I don't know what I'm doing.

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And there's like,

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here's this curriculum,

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like pick a few things out of it and just go have fun with the kids.

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And I was like, yeah, I can do that.

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Like I can, I can have fun.

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And so I, I went in and I just played a game with the kids about medication safety.

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And it went, I mean, it went well.

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I didn't like share a story.

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I didn't talk about anything,

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but that was pretty much like,

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that's what really got me excited about.

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Okay.

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I, I do want to speak to kids about my story and, and share and, and tell them like,

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how they can make better choices and how all of this begins how all of it starts

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and it's not that you just make bad decisions because you made bad decisions like

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there is there's the societal pressures there is just the pressure being a kid

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there's the adverse childhood experiences if you have those and most kids have at

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least one and so you know if i can tell you that you know it starts with those

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things and then all of a sudden you're just

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overwhelmed.

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You're completely overwhelmed.

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And then, and then here comes somebody and goes, Hey, do you want to hit this vape?

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And you're just like, Oh, thank God.

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Somebody talked to me today.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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I want to hit that vape.

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Yeah.

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How long had you been sober before you started doing that circuit in public

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speaking to the kids?

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So I really started my public speaking.

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Well, so the nonprofit was 2017.

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okay so yeah you had a real big you know uh longevity of sobriety to talk about

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okay yeah yeah it wasn't like just like a year or two years it was it was a while

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and and that's that's one one thing that i really do like about the state of

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tennessee is if you do if you are looking for a job like that or if you are going

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into the to the state to work for the tennessee department of mental health

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in substance abuse services, they're asking like, what's your sobriety date?

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Like we want to make sure that, you know, you're not just three months into this.

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Yeah.

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Because this is a stressful job.

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And, you know, you're working with people who are right behind you if you're only three months.

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So so they they look at those at those dates and,

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you know,

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they want to make sure that you're not just a fresh off the fresh off the bus newbie,

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you know.

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Well, unless you're, like, maybe your career is in that, right?

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Like, there are still people that work in the field that aren't identified as alcoholic addicts.

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Correct.

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Yes, yes.

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Yeah, unless they study.

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But a lot of people in the addiction field come from either born from addiction,

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married to addiction,

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or addiction themselves,

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I believe.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Most of the time, at least.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That doesn't mean everyone, just...

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Yeah,

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I would say it's,

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it's pretty consistent,

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you know,

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I'm sure there's,

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you know,

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there's a few that don't come from any of that,

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but I'd say it's pretty consistent.

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And then I know there was one thing and you brought it up briefly in your example,

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but just vaping because that's something we haven't talked about or that was

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brought up.

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But that is the last how many years?

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Five, six years?

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My anxiety is so ridiculous.

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Like it saved me from vaping because like... The pimp exploding?

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Yeah.

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I would just have this imagination of you take like an inhale and just goes like,

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you know,

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like the mini...

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And then you die and everything.

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It's just like the car blowing up scene, but with this little vape pen.

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And then it's like...

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and then your lip your lips are gone like i mean everything's done and yeah um i

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was like one recall was enough to one recall was enough to i've never never never

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been and i've never been the one time i did i went like like i had a double fist to

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get me away in case i needed to throw the bomb away from my face and i'm like this

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is too stressful like i don't i don't want this

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Actually, now I'm thinking about it.

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Yeah,

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I did before I was sober because I'd have friends that would have like THC vapes

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and stuff.

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So those blow up too.

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Yeah, which always seemed really sketchy on how to get in.

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Like it was.

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Yeah, the whole thing seemed very sketchy and weird.

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If the liquid inside looks like a leveler,

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like what the stuff that's inside a level,

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I don't want to smoke it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Just a rule of thumb for me.

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And I think one of the I forgot where I heard this,

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but one of the issues was like,

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you can add more nicotine into the vase.

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So it's more addicting than just your regular cigarettes.

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What if they accidentally put vegetable oil in there?

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You don't know.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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and there's no way to tell how much nicotine is in any of the disposables that are

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on the market because the FDA doesn't regulate that side of it.

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I mean, you're supposed to go to the FDA if you want to sell it.

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on the market but the truth initiative found out that 80 of the vapes on the market

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are illegal they're not going through the process of being approved to sell on the

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market and so there's no way to even tell if a zero percent nicotine disposable

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vape is actually zero percent nicotine the american

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yeah what is a disposable those are like the ones you buy at the gas station yeah

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like the little square ones i think or a rectangle they look like a hard drive okay

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yeah yeah they don't know that's what a hard drive used to look like yeah and yeah

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and i i hate that they're called disposable too because they're so bad

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for the environment and like just throwing them in the trash is so awful for our environment.

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You know, it's, it's disposable is the wrong term form.

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Like there should be,

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there should be a campaign to change that term because you can't just throw them away.

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Like you, you really have to, to figure something out some way.

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Like I know the state of Tennessee on our drug take back days,

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they will take back the disposable vapes.

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So you can drop them off and,

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and I like,

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I'm not going to tell a kid,

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well,

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just keep it disposable vapes until it's drug take back day.

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And then, you know, yeah, but, but, uh, save it for a rainy day.

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Right.

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I am going to advocate that schools are,

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you know put up like amnesty boxes and so if a student is like hey i i quit vaping

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and i've got four vapes in my car but i don't want to keep them around but i also

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don't want to throw them away because i know it's bad for the environment my

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school's got an amnesty box so if i walk through the office and i i put those in

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the amnesty box it's no harm no foul i go to class i'm good right like i'm all for

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that but how many kids are actually saying that they're not wanting to throw it

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away because the environment

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I so I get to teach these Saturday classes for the students that they get caught

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vaping in several different counties in Tennessee.

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And and when we when we start asking,

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like,

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do you like do you care about our environment and and why do you care about it?

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And they start to answer like.

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Oh,

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well,

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yeah,

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I mean,

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like I go hunting,

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I go fishing,

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I,

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you know,

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do this and,

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and then it's like,

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okay,

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so do you know that when you throw that vape away,

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and it goes into our landfills that some of that some of those chemicals can seep

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into our waterways and the the water that those deer are drinking or the water that

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those birds are swimming in and drinking and that those chemicals are getting into

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those animals and and now

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Now you have animals that can't be harvested the way that they're supposed to be harvested.

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What would it be like if you couldn't go hunting?

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Oh, I'd be devastated.

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I want to do that.

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It's one of my favorite things to do.

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What about fishing?

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Oh, gosh, I love to fish.

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I want to fish.

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I fish all the time.

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Well, what if you couldn't?

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Mm-hmm.

(00:18:38):
Like, let's reframe the mindset and let's get them thinking about what do they love doing?

(00:18:45):
And then let's question what would happen if they had to stop doing that because

(00:18:49):
they were throwing their vapes away or throwing them on the side of the road,

(00:18:53):
you know?

(00:18:54):
I try to do that because if I can get them to think about the things that they care

(00:19:00):
about more than those vapes,

(00:19:03):
because there are things they care about more than those vapes,

(00:19:06):
then I can get them to start thinking about, maybe I should quit.

(00:19:10):
Maybe I should stop.

(00:19:11):
The age group that you see, is it 14 to 18?

(00:19:16):
I mean, obviously, because you have to be, what, 18 to be able to get a cigarette or vape?

(00:19:21):
So I'm going to put even,

(00:19:23):
again,

(00:19:24):
from my own experiences,

(00:19:26):
at least from what I've even researched,

(00:19:27):
studied,

(00:19:29):
when we're asking questions like legal,

(00:19:33):
those don't always factor it.

(00:19:34):
People, kids will get their hands on what they want to get their hands on.

(00:19:38):
It's making them not want to put their hands on it.

(00:19:41):
You know, it's so being like, Oh, is it legal?

(00:19:44):
Like, I don't think they care if it's legal.

(00:19:46):
You know,

(00:19:46):
they're not as scared about that as like the feeling of having to have it,

(00:19:53):
you know,

(00:19:53):
like,

(00:19:55):
Anyone who's in an addiction is very resourceful,

(00:19:58):
whether that's being from making a friend who'll be able to get it from you,

(00:20:02):
who has an older brother or a parent.

(00:20:04):
And a lot of times I, at least again, in my experience, it's a parent that will enable.

(00:20:09):
Yeah.

(00:20:10):
Yeah.

(00:20:11):
It's so the legal age is it's 21.

(00:20:13):
You got to be 21.

(00:20:14):
I think that's for a year or two.

(00:20:17):
Yeah, it's federal.

(00:20:19):
They did that the year I turned 21.

(00:20:21):
Is cigarettes 18 or 21?

(00:20:23):
21.

(00:20:23):
All tobacco, yeah.

(00:20:26):
That turned the year I turned.

(00:20:28):
Okay, so it used to be 18.

(00:20:29):
Yeah, it used to be.

(00:20:30):
Yeah.

(00:20:32):
And a vape is considered a tobacco product because it does come from the,

(00:20:36):
there are components of it that come from the tobacco plant.

(00:20:39):
So the way that our law was written in Tennessee a few years ago,

(00:20:43):
it was very confusing because it looked like,

(00:20:46):
okay,

(00:20:47):
if I just had the device with no liquid in it,

(00:20:50):
And I was, I was under 21.

(00:20:52):
I was good.

(00:20:54):
Like I couldn't meet, I couldn't be charged, but that wasn't the case.

(00:20:59):
Yeah.

(00:21:00):
But you know,

(00:21:00):
it's what's,

(00:21:00):
you said something really interesting too,

(00:21:02):
is that's one of the questions that I will ask students in this class is where do

(00:21:07):
you get your vapes?

(00:21:08):
And, and that's after I've built rapport with them for a few hours and,

(00:21:13):
And the majority of the time, the answer is, but my mom and dad buy it for me.

(00:21:17):
Really?

(00:21:19):
Yeah.

(00:21:19):
Because they at least know where they're getting it from.

(00:21:23):
That's their response.

(00:21:25):
That's the parental.

(00:21:27):
They're trying to keep their kids safe in the best way that they can.

(00:21:33):
Or their parents are doing it too,

(00:21:34):
and they just don't care to the point where they don't want to have to...

(00:21:40):
As we talked about in our addiction with Evan,

(00:21:43):
it becomes work to maneuver us in our addiction and raising him.

(00:21:49):
And I can tell you that my dad, near the end, as his...

(00:21:53):
It was easier for him to include or say,

(00:21:57):
hey,

(00:21:58):
you can drink or whatever as long as you're with me.

(00:22:04):
It's a way of him just being able to drink or smoke the way he wants to without

(00:22:10):
having to worry about people like me.

(00:22:12):
It becomes a much easier way for the initial addict to be like,

(00:22:18):
this is how I can make everything work in my circle.

(00:22:21):
I remember hearing stories too,

(00:22:22):
like parents would be like,

(00:22:24):
well,

(00:22:24):
if you're going to drink,

(00:22:25):
I'd rather you do it in my house and stay here.

(00:22:27):
And,

(00:22:28):
you know,

(00:22:28):
and you'd hear stories with them too,

(00:22:30):
because they're drinking and they're like,

(00:22:32):
they're not wanting to have to hide their thing.

(00:22:34):
So it's like,

(00:22:35):
if I include you in it again,

(00:22:37):
drinking,

(00:22:38):
smoking addiction,

(00:22:39):
we've,

(00:22:40):
I've all learned connection.

(00:22:41):
You talked about,

(00:22:42):
you already said earlier,

(00:22:43):
Hey,

(00:22:43):
someone hasn't talked to me all day and they asked if I want to vape.

(00:22:47):
Yeah, I just want that connection.

(00:22:48):
And when you add that substance, you're putting on that blur, that film.

(00:22:54):
But it still is better than nothing, you know, at times.

(00:22:56):
And but there's other ways to make connections.

(00:22:58):
It's just, you know, especially when it's your home life.

(00:23:01):
It's so hard because you don't know any better.

(00:23:03):
Right.

(00:23:03):
Right.

(00:23:04):
You don't know.

(00:23:07):
Yeah, you you don't.

(00:23:08):
And I'm coming saying from someone who came from it.

(00:23:11):
So I'm like, yeah, I know because I was there.

(00:23:14):
Yeah,

(00:23:15):
it's it's very interesting because some of the things you mentioned,

(00:23:20):
you know,

(00:23:20):
when you when you think about parents saying like,

(00:23:23):
here,

(00:23:23):
just do this at home because I'm home,

(00:23:27):
you're home.

(00:23:28):
I've got control over it.

(00:23:30):
You know, as soon as I walk out of that door, I'm going to go do it again.

(00:23:35):
I don't care where I'm going.

(00:23:35):
I don't care if you're home or not.

(00:23:37):
I'm going to go find somewhere else to do it.

(00:23:39):
If my friends are at the park doing it,

(00:23:41):
if they're at an abandoned house doing it,

(00:23:44):
if they're at their house doing it,

(00:23:45):
I'm going to go find somewhere to do it.

(00:23:47):
And the,

(00:23:48):
and the mindset that,

(00:23:49):
that those parents have is,

(00:23:51):
well,

(00:23:52):
if they're doing it,

(00:23:52):
as long as I have control over it,

(00:23:54):
you don't have control over it.

(00:23:55):
If you are, if you're a parent and you're listening and you're thinking,

(00:24:00):
Well, I've got control over this because I make them do it at home.

(00:24:02):
No, you don't.

(00:24:03):
You do not have control over it because they are doing it everywhere else that they go.

(00:24:09):
You're just lying to yourself.

(00:24:11):
Well,

(00:24:11):
then you also have if the parents leave the house and you're there,

(00:24:16):
you're going to invite friends over to either drink or drink.

(00:24:20):
do smoke weed or do whatever when the parents out of the house and then that

(00:24:24):
becomes a liability if something were to happen to one of the kids in the house I

(00:24:28):
think again coming from and I'm telling you no one or at least most people are not

(00:24:33):
thinking about the liabilities like I don't think that when my dad would offer that

(00:24:38):
or when he you know got to that point in his alcoholism

(00:24:43):
it was all about how can i make it most convenient right now he wasn't thinking

(00:24:47):
about how he was going to set me up for the future he wasn't thinking about what

(00:24:51):
impact it was going to have on me he was in the moment he wanted to drink he had

(00:24:57):
responsibility of me how can he make both work he can offer that

(00:25:02):
you can drink here and it can be cool.

(00:25:04):
And you know, at least I know where you're getting.

(00:25:05):
It's just, it's the parent is thinking from an alcoholic mind or from an alcohol.

(00:25:12):
They're not thinking like,

(00:25:13):
that's why I'm like,

(00:25:14):
if kids have something in their car,

(00:25:15):
they're not,

(00:25:16):
might not be thinking of the environment necessarily.

(00:25:18):
That's why they're storing it or whatever.

(00:25:21):
Maybe it is.

(00:25:21):
But I mean, most of the time, it's that moment.

(00:25:25):
It's not thinking about, you know, 10 days a year from now.

(00:25:31):
It's a quick fix.

(00:25:32):
It's I want it.

(00:25:33):
It's addiction.

(00:25:33):
That's I like I find my fix now.

(00:25:36):
What solutions can I do in this moment?

(00:25:40):
And it's the empowered versus disempowered mind.

(00:25:44):
And and that's I mean, and that can go with anything.

(00:25:47):
I mean, then go with anger issues.

(00:25:49):
I can go with jealousy like it's just the empowered versus disempowered mindset.

(00:25:55):
You mentioned that it's connection, right?

(00:25:58):
Like it's connection.

(00:26:00):
And some very interesting data came out.

(00:26:04):
And I'll have to send you the link.

(00:26:07):
But it said that 78% of students or teenagers who vape owned their device.

(00:26:14):
They purchased it somehow, but they own their device.

(00:26:19):
72% of those students borrowed a device.

(00:26:29):
They're looking for social connection.

(00:26:33):
They just need positive ways to find it.

(00:26:38):
I haven't really talked about this in sobriety as much,

(00:26:42):
but one of the things I used to say as in,

(00:26:47):
I'm stepping lightly here because I don't,

(00:26:49):
and if I need to cut this,

(00:26:51):
I can,

(00:26:51):
because that's my job.

(00:26:54):
But I almost wanted to tell kids,

(00:26:56):
like I had said when I was in my teenage years,

(00:26:59):
cause I grew up two alcoholic parents and I swore I wasn't going to drink.

(00:27:03):
Or do drugs.

(00:27:03):
But I don't think I had a choice after I had the first drink because it's like so

(00:27:09):
that feeling of comfort that really did make me numb to the world.

(00:27:14):
Which is why I said if I were to give kids advice,

(00:27:17):
I would tell them don't do drugs because you're going to like it.

(00:27:20):
It's not because they're bad for you.

(00:27:22):
They are.

(00:27:23):
It's not because, you know, you're going to end up homeless.

(00:27:27):
That's not necessarily true.

(00:27:29):
It's actually better sometimes if you end up homeless because then you get help.

(00:27:32):
And so hitting like having a high bottom can almost make it last longer.

(00:27:37):
And you can be in that misery, right?

(00:27:38):
Because you think you're controlling it.

(00:27:40):
Yeah.

(00:27:42):
I would say at least I'll tell Evan,

(00:27:45):
please don't do drugs because not cause you're gonna,

(00:27:49):
not cause it's bad.

(00:27:50):
You will love it and you will love it so much.

(00:27:52):
You will let it go before anything else in your life.

(00:27:55):
And that's why I would tell kids like,

(00:27:59):
don't do like it's,

(00:28:01):
it'll be,

(00:28:01):
once you start doing it,

(00:28:03):
it becomes a part of your life.

(00:28:06):
And yeah.

(00:28:07):
I mean, I,

(00:28:11):
I agree with that.

(00:28:12):
I mean, I don't want to lie.

(00:28:15):
I reframe it.

(00:28:16):
I reframe it in a different way of saying it.

(00:28:18):
You know,

(00:28:18):
like I would say,

(00:28:20):
you know,

(00:28:21):
you know that feeling you get when you're just belly laughing,

(00:28:24):
you can't breathe,

(00:28:24):
you're laughing so hard.

(00:28:26):
And then somebody else is laughing and then you calm down for a minute and then you

(00:28:30):
both start laughing again.

(00:28:31):
You know, do you know that feeling?

(00:28:33):
That's kind of like what it is.

(00:28:34):
Yeah.

(00:28:34):
Yes.

(00:28:35):
Yeah.

(00:28:36):
That's dopamine, right?

(00:28:38):
That's a dopamine rush that's going to your brain.

(00:28:41):
That's the same thing that drugs does to our brain.

(00:28:46):
And I'm telling you, it's a feeling that you'll never be able to catch again.

(00:28:55):
You'll have that first one, but you'll never experience that first one again.

(00:28:59):
With the belly laughing,

(00:29:01):
those kind of laughter moments,

(00:29:02):
you can have those feelings again and again and again and again.

(00:29:06):
But that high that you get that first time, you'll never catch it again.

(00:29:11):
And you'll just chase it for the rest of your life.

(00:29:14):
And, you know, I'm not going to scare you.

(00:29:15):
I'm not going to tell you that if you take a drink today, you're going to die today.

(00:29:18):
I'm not going to tell you if you smoke a joint today that you're going to you're

(00:29:22):
going to die today.

(00:29:24):
No, it doesn't.

(00:29:24):
Scaring kids does not work.

(00:29:26):
And yeah.

(00:29:28):
they're just, I don't know.

(00:29:30):
They,

(00:29:30):
they can,

(00:29:31):
they can sniff out the,

(00:29:32):
the,

(00:29:33):
if you're authentic or not,

(00:29:34):
like they,

(00:29:35):
they know it right away.

(00:29:37):
And if you just go in and try to scare them,

(00:29:39):
like they're onto it,

(00:29:40):
they're just like,

(00:29:40):
all right,

(00:29:41):
next,

(00:29:42):
you know,

(00:29:42):
but if you're honest,

(00:29:44):
if you're honest with them and you're up front with them,

(00:29:47):
Then they're going to lean in and they're going to listen.

(00:29:53):
There's so many times where I've walked into a school and I've heard students say,

(00:29:58):
I don't know why you brought him in.

(00:30:00):
This ain't going to work.

(00:30:02):
And then they listen to me talk.

(00:30:05):
And then those same students are walking out and they'll stop and they'll go,

(00:30:09):
hey,

(00:30:09):
I'm really glad you came today.

(00:30:11):
You really made a difference.

(00:30:13):
And it's like, that's because I didn't come in to scare you.

(00:30:18):
I just came in to educate you and share my story with you on what I've been through.

(00:30:24):
And I didn't say,

(00:30:25):
and I always say this,

(00:30:26):
just because it happened to me doesn't mean it's going to happen to you.

(00:30:29):
No.

(00:30:29):
I always say that.

(00:30:31):
But I just want you to know that it could possibly happen.

(00:30:36):
And if you have anything like an incarcerated parent,

(00:30:42):
if you've lost a loved one to an overdose,

(00:30:45):
if there's any mental health issues in your family,

(00:30:49):
and you have all three of those at one time, you're at a much higher risk.

(00:30:54):
And if you're someone like me who has four or more adverse childhood experiences,

(00:30:58):
then you're 38 times more likely to die by suicide.

(00:31:00):
I'm not telling you that to scare you.

(00:31:03):
I'm just telling you that as the truth.

(00:31:05):
I feel like it's also to share.

(00:31:06):
If you have these types of things in your life, it doesn't make you bad or...

(00:31:13):
It's a normal brain response to a terrible event.

(00:31:19):
And typically that's, again, addiction is a disease of uniqueness.

(00:31:23):
Like I'm different.

(00:31:24):
I'll do it differently.

(00:31:26):
This isn't how everyone else's is.

(00:31:28):
It's I'm special.

(00:31:30):
I'm unique.

(00:31:30):
And you get sober and you learn, yeah, no one cares about me as much.

(00:31:35):
I'm not unique.

(00:31:36):
I'm like a lot of other people.

(00:31:38):
But there's connection in that.

(00:31:41):
You know, there's a lot of people I have a lot of things in common with.

(00:31:44):
I believe the way you flip their mindset,

(00:31:46):
though,

(00:31:47):
is is through the positive childhood experiences.

(00:31:50):
And when I look at Colin's shirt that Dallas Open,

(00:31:53):
like I would point that out,

(00:31:55):
like if you were a kid sitting in the audience and I would not make a spectrum,

(00:32:00):
I wouldn't pull you out on the like on the stage with me,

(00:32:02):
but I would go.

(00:32:04):
if you've ever been to the Dallas open,

(00:32:06):
or if you play tennis on the tennis team,

(00:32:09):
that's a positive childhood experience because it builds character.

(00:32:14):
It, it teaches you accountability, right?

(00:32:17):
It,

(00:32:17):
it teaches you to,

(00:32:18):
to practice and to put effort in there's rules and there's regulations and like there's,

(00:32:24):
there's responsibility and you have to take care of your equipment.

(00:32:28):
Like there's all, that's a positive childhood experience.

(00:32:30):
And if you can do things like that,

(00:32:33):
And focus on those kinds of things.

(00:32:36):
You won't have to worry about the small little adverse things that happen in your life.

(00:32:42):
Like, I don't have a pencil today.

(00:32:44):
Like, yes, that's a stressful moment.

(00:32:46):
But if you know how to deal with the adversity because you've played in the Dallas

(00:32:51):
Open or you played on the tennis team and you've dealt with adversity before,

(00:32:56):
you know how to get through the day without that pencil.

(00:32:59):
Like you know how to adapt, you know how to improvise, adapt and overcome.

(00:33:02):
Right.

(00:33:03):
And,

(00:33:03):
and we have to teach,

(00:33:06):
we have to teach adults and we have to teach students that positive childhood experiences,

(00:33:11):
improvising,

(00:33:12):
adapting and overcoming is the way to go.

(00:33:15):
Because if we've, if we just spend too much time focusing on the negative, what do we get?

(00:33:20):
We get the negative.

(00:33:22):
We, we've got, we've got to focus on positive things.

(00:33:25):
Yeah.

(00:33:26):
You say that and I'm like,

(00:33:28):
if that were me,

(00:33:30):
looking at sports is a very negative childhood experience for me.

(00:33:33):
That's one of my adverse ones is because after my parents got divorced,

(00:33:39):
it was I was put in the middle of only one could attend certain games or I was in

(00:33:46):
big trouble.

(00:33:46):
Yeah.

(00:33:47):
both of them showed up or they'd both miss it and I'd be sad.

(00:33:51):
And I was like,

(00:33:52):
so by the end it got to a point where,

(00:33:54):
I mean,

(00:33:54):
I never continued because it was so much to manipulate between two alcoholic,

(00:34:01):
angry parents that if I like was playing a sport,

(00:34:06):
volleyball and see them,

(00:34:07):
like they both ended up showing up.

(00:34:08):
I knew I was going to get in trouble that night because I was supposed to regulate

(00:34:11):
who comes,

(00:34:11):
who doesn't.

(00:34:13):
And it's like, I can already, I can feel my heart like already being like,

(00:34:18):
That would be pressure for me.

(00:34:20):
And that's like one of the bad experiences.

(00:34:23):
I like don't want to.

(00:34:24):
You know, and that's different because my parents are also divorced.

(00:34:29):
But they handled it well.

(00:34:30):
Well, yeah, that's the thing.

(00:34:31):
They didn't put that pressure on me to regulate who comes to like my tennis match.

(00:34:37):
It was, well, it's my week with Colin.

(00:34:40):
I'll go to his tennis match this week.

(00:34:42):
And then if I was at my mom's the next week and had a tennis match,

(00:34:45):
then she would be the one to take me.

(00:34:47):
and watch me so wasn't anything i had to worry about or regulate i've never heard

(00:34:52):
you say that but that's interesting how yeah they put that i mean for graduation i

(00:34:57):
had to pick you know like and it was like the it was it was hard it was really

(00:35:02):
really

(00:35:03):
because yeah my parents even though they were divorced they still communicated with

(00:35:06):
each other um about things and they might not have liked each other or got along or

(00:35:13):
agreed with each other but in front of when it came to me you know i was put first

(00:35:18):
and they set aside their differences and it wasn't until like after i graduated and

(00:35:24):
they really didn't have to deal with each other through me that they've kind of

(00:35:28):
really

(00:35:30):
stayed in their own corners and not communicated at all but yeah and it got really

(00:35:35):
bad after Ken moved in like I mean my dad would like be you know if we were to talk

(00:35:40):
to him and I mean he lives in my house like and I mean that's how stressful it was

(00:35:45):
and um

(00:35:48):
Yeah.

(00:35:49):
So for me,

(00:35:49):
I'm like,

(00:35:51):
it's a trigger,

(00:35:51):
but,

(00:35:52):
um,

(00:35:52):
I know that's not typically,

(00:35:54):
and that's also a,

(00:35:55):
this is a good way to say addiction.

(00:35:58):
It doesn't mean like you have a parent or you don't have a parent.

(00:36:01):
Like we have two totally opposite experiences and yet we still have the issue of

(00:36:09):
being alcoholic.

(00:36:12):
Well,

(00:36:13):
I'll throw in a third,

(00:36:14):
like I'm listening to you both talk and,

(00:36:16):
you know,

(00:36:16):
you said that,

(00:36:18):
you know,

(00:36:18):
you had to pick at graduation and Colin,

(00:36:21):
you didn't have to pick at graduation.

(00:36:22):
And I didn't even get a graduation.

(00:36:25):
Like, you know, I missed my graduation and I didn't get to graduate.

(00:36:30):
And that was my fault.

(00:36:31):
That was because of my addictions and my parents.

(00:36:34):
But I hear Colin say, like, my parents communicated, yours didn't.

(00:36:39):
My parents, they're still married.

(00:36:42):
Like I didn't learn that until later in life.

(00:36:44):
If you're hearing this too,

(00:36:46):
I think the big thing you probably drive home with teens and this can be adults.

(00:36:50):
Like I feel like with myself, when I got sober, I started kind of growing up at 27.

(00:36:54):
These are things that are all you can work to change.

(00:36:59):
Yep.

(00:36:59):
It used to be poor me, poor me, poor me.

(00:37:02):
Like if you had the life I had as,

(00:37:04):
you know,

(00:37:04):
like Colin already knows because it'd be like they knew that's when I hit my

(00:37:08):
blackout is when I'm like,

(00:37:10):
you would drink,

(00:37:11):
you know,

(00:37:11):
if you turn it into a competition with that.

(00:37:13):
And now it's like, okay.

(00:37:16):
We've accepted.

(00:37:17):
Here's the cards I've had.

(00:37:19):
But now I get to choose how I want to put them in order.

(00:37:21):
And I get now it takes time.

(00:37:23):
It takes work.

(00:37:24):
But I know staying away from the drink and drugs for me,

(00:37:28):
staying sober is the only way I have a fighting chance to regain my life back.

(00:37:34):
Yeah.

(00:37:35):
Yeah.

(00:37:36):
No, the, the brain is, you know, it's still the, you still have neuroplasticity.

(00:37:40):
I mean, past 35 years old.

(00:37:43):
Oh yeah.

(00:37:45):
You can still learn things.

(00:37:47):
Yeah,

(00:37:48):
no,

(00:37:48):
but I'm saying like,

(00:37:49):
even at 40,

(00:37:50):
I've seen people or,

(00:37:51):
you know,

(00:37:51):
50,

(00:37:52):
60,

(00:37:52):
like there are people that I've heard share in meetings that,

(00:37:56):
you know,

(00:37:59):
Maybe they had 60 years of that harbored darkness and anger and now they finally

(00:38:03):
get to live life happy,

(00:38:05):
joyous and free as they learn to not numb out to the things they used to numb out to.

(00:38:12):
Because those are things I used to numb out to.

(00:38:15):
I think that's having a good sponsor,

(00:38:17):
some good,

(00:38:18):
you know,

(00:38:19):
good coaching,

(00:38:20):
you know,

(00:38:21):
like that mentorship,

(00:38:22):
that,

(00:38:23):
that kind of thing.

(00:38:23):
I think that really,

(00:38:25):
that really helps when,

(00:38:27):
when you live that life for so long and then,

(00:38:30):
you know,

(00:38:30):
you can,

(00:38:31):
you can live it on the flip side of it and be more,

(00:38:34):
live that more positive,

(00:38:35):
like,

(00:38:35):
Hey,

(00:38:36):
I don't have to be stuck in that mindset of,

(00:38:39):
Oh,

(00:38:39):
well,

(00:38:39):
life is always going to deal me a bad hand.

(00:38:43):
It's hard.

(00:38:44):
I mean, and I would, I would tell kids like, yeah, it's, it feels like that.

(00:38:48):
And it feels like there's no one else who could possibly understand you,

(00:38:51):
but like,

(00:38:51):
there are so many groups that you can't even fathom the people who are just like

(00:38:57):
you and would totally speak your language,

(00:39:00):
you know?

(00:39:00):
And I think that's the putting those,

(00:39:05):
that's would be my way of,

(00:39:07):
you know,

(00:39:08):
Hey,

(00:39:08):
here's some information.

(00:39:09):
If that did sound good to you, you know, find me.

(00:39:12):
later privately,

(00:39:13):
email me,

(00:39:14):
leave my email,

(00:39:15):
you know,

(00:39:15):
because people don't want to like be in public.

(00:39:17):
And yeah, they don't.

(00:39:19):
I don't know.

(00:39:20):
What do you think, Colin?

(00:39:20):
Like,

(00:39:21):
No, yeah, I agree.

(00:39:23):
I'm still thinking about the just talking about the open connection because I know

(00:39:28):
you deal with this with talking to the teens.

(00:39:32):
And I think you put it or wrote it to us,

(00:39:34):
just the loneliness factor that a lot of kids have today that I feel like we were

(00:39:41):
maybe the last generation to write when social media was taking over because I

(00:39:47):
graduated in 07.

(00:39:48):
I was like, we graduated in 12.

(00:39:52):
Yeah.

(00:39:52):
But 07, I think was right when I got my first Facebook and that was right when it started.

(00:39:57):
But that was also,

(00:39:58):
I feel like the beginning of,

(00:40:01):
you know,

(00:40:02):
social media as a connection form or base or how people would connect.

(00:40:07):
And then they've lost that steadily through the years.

(00:40:11):
And so you don't have a lot of that open.

(00:40:13):
Passing notes in class.

(00:40:15):
Yeah.

(00:40:15):
Or talking to people.

(00:40:17):
Now they just text.

(00:40:18):
And I sometimes wonder how that's going to affect in the work life when,

(00:40:23):
you know,

(00:40:23):
a boss yells at an employee,

(00:40:26):
you know,

(00:40:26):
would they just completely shut down?

(00:40:28):
When you go review that boss on Yelp and be like, this boss fucking sucks.

(00:40:32):
You go on LinkedIn and you give them one star and be like, never again.

(00:40:38):
But I mean,

(00:40:38):
I've been yelled at before by a boss and,

(00:40:41):
you know,

(00:40:41):
and I deserved it and I didn't shut down.

(00:40:43):
But,

(00:40:44):
you know,

(00:40:45):
I wonder without some of those like really hardships or,

(00:40:49):
you know,

(00:40:49):
how the younger generation is going to react to that.

(00:40:53):
Yeah, it's it's I don't know, because like I see the way they react to it in school.

(00:41:00):
I mean, they cannot handle discipline in school.

(00:41:04):
And and yes, they're teenagers.

(00:41:07):
And, you know, I get it.

(00:41:09):
There's there's all of that.

(00:41:10):
But even when I was in school,

(00:41:13):
if if I messed up,

(00:41:15):
like if I messed up and I knew it and and the right teacher,

(00:41:20):
I'll say the right teacher,

(00:41:21):
because there were teachers that

(00:41:23):
they,

(00:41:24):
I knew they cared about me and I knew that like,

(00:41:27):
yeah,

(00:41:28):
like they were there,

(00:41:30):
like they're,

(00:41:31):
you know,

(00:41:32):
holding me accountable was their way of saying like,

(00:41:34):
Hey,

(00:41:36):
like I'm,

(00:41:36):
I'm here for you,

(00:41:37):
but you've got to,

(00:41:39):
you got to,

(00:41:40):
you got to act correct.

(00:41:41):
You know, even, even having those conversations, like I knew, okay, I got to get it together.

(00:41:49):
I've got to, I've got to rein it back in.

(00:41:52):
I got to step up.

(00:41:53):
But today,

(00:41:54):
like being in a school and like I'll be walking down a hall and you'll you'll see a

(00:42:01):
teacher pull a student out.

(00:42:02):
And it's just very dramatic.

(00:42:05):
It's very dramatic.

(00:42:06):
And matter of fact, I was at a school, I think it was two years ago.

(00:42:12):
And all of a sudden there was a circle forming in the hallway by the lunchroom.

(00:42:18):
Phones went up in the air.

(00:42:20):
I knew right away what it was.

(00:42:22):
It wasn't the serenity prayer, right?

(00:42:24):
No.

(00:42:24):
It works if we work it.

(00:42:25):
It was a fight.

(00:42:26):
That's the mentality, though, is...

(00:42:36):
if you're going to come at me,

(00:42:38):
I'm going to put you on social media and I'm going to make you look bad.

(00:42:42):
And, and the problem now today is it's not just the students.

(00:42:48):
So if a student gets in trouble today, what you'll find, and this is, this is just my opinion.

(00:42:53):
And, but I'm, I'm, I feel like it's probably right.

(00:43:00):
Oh, you're good.

(00:43:00):
Like I was like, you'll, you'll find that.

(00:43:04):
If a student gets in trouble today,

(00:43:06):
if they get caught vaping,

(00:43:07):
if they get caught skipping class,

(00:43:08):
whatever it is,

(00:43:09):
you'll find a parent on social media complaining about the school instead of

(00:43:15):
holding their student accountable.

(00:43:17):
I'm telling you, it's the, oh, it's their fault.

(00:43:23):
I also think that's like, again, you can go real deep in the...

(00:43:28):
That's probably how their parents did it.

(00:43:30):
This is a generation of how we learn.

(00:43:37):
And again,

(00:43:37):
getting sober is I learned I had a part in a lot of things,

(00:43:42):
and that's not something I had ever really learned.

(00:43:44):
And now in therapy, I'm learning how to let go of some of those things.

(00:43:50):
the auto thinking that my brain did for 25 years.

(00:43:53):
Yeah.

(00:43:54):
And because that doesn't go away, we just learn how to not react to it.

(00:43:58):
We respond.

(00:43:58):
Yeah.

(00:44:00):
the the phones that i don't know the oh god uh black mirror had one of those

(00:44:07):
episodes where everyone was recording um the phone one and like everything you ever

(00:44:13):
did like everyone was just pointing a phone at this one person and they felt so

(00:44:17):
uncomfortable i mean the end of it you know it was the person's punishment because

(00:44:23):
they were doing it to someone else and

(00:44:27):
It makes me so eerie.

(00:44:28):
Like,

(00:44:28):
I'm like,

(00:44:28):
I hate like people's first reaction is to like,

(00:44:32):
oh,

(00:44:32):
I want to,

(00:44:33):
I'm going to go viral on TikTok with this,

(00:44:36):
you know?

(00:44:37):
Yeah.

(00:44:38):
Not like, hey, there's another human.

(00:44:40):
There's another human in that.

(00:44:43):
two humans if it fighting um that there's no reason to get physical when did

(00:44:49):
schools completely give up on policing cell phones when i was in there yeah when

(00:44:56):
did when did parents like that's that i i talk to parents all the time and i'm like

(00:45:02):
do you look at your do you look at your kid's phone and they're like no it's theirs

(00:45:07):
and i'm like do you pay the bill

(00:45:09):
My parents sure looked at mine.

(00:45:10):
It's yours.

(00:45:13):
Like that's your dad used to look at my grammar and he'd be like, you spelled that wrong.

(00:45:16):
Or you didn't use it.

(00:45:17):
I mean, and again, and we're talking about functional people.

(00:45:22):
There are functional alcoholics, addicts as parents and the grace of,

(00:45:28):
that's given is that was really helpful when it came to making amends like with my

(00:45:32):
mom who yes i know she's listening and um like because i saw what it i thought like

(00:45:40):
being a parent was the exception like there's no way once i became a mom once i

(00:45:44):
became a wife like there was always a if this it would be different and it wasn't

(00:45:50):
um alcohol stood no chance against like evan is the light of my life but

(00:45:55):
um once alcohol was in the way there was you know i wasn't the parent i wanted to

(00:46:01):
be right there was no i again it wasn't a choice it's not like i was like it's

(00:46:07):
addiction that's that's what it is um but yeah if parent i mean i think kids also

(00:46:14):
like there's a thing like you want to

(00:46:18):
be wanted to know i don't want to be secretive in my phone like if colin wants to

(00:46:24):
see my phone he can see it like i don't have any he doesn't but i mean with evan

(00:46:29):
i'd probably yeah i'd still check his search history like to make sure like

(00:46:33):
I do laugh at those commercials that are out now with the Instagram teens.

(00:46:37):
And I'm like, all these kids look really cool with their parents sitting them down.

(00:46:42):
I'm like, you're going to be on Instagram teens.

(00:46:44):
It's like, where's the yelling and the shouting?

(00:46:46):
And they'll be like, no dad, let me live my life.

(00:46:48):
Well, you have to test the boundary.

(00:46:50):
If you're not like, again, life is about, you know, that's why there's rules.

(00:46:56):
Like that's why when you break a rule,

(00:46:57):
you're going to,

(00:46:59):
you're like kind of doing your little mini experiment.

(00:47:01):
Like,

(00:47:02):
what's going to happen.

(00:47:06):
And if, yeah, I mean, it's all just kind of doing the best, but

(00:47:15):
I will I will say that there are some schools in Tennessee that are that are

(00:47:21):
implementing no cell phones.

(00:47:24):
And and parents push back on like, what if there's an emergency?

(00:47:30):
And the school district was like, we have phones.

(00:47:33):
Nine one one.

(00:47:34):
We can we can just like when you were a kid and you were in school,

(00:47:39):
we can we can still manage this.

(00:47:42):
Well,

(00:47:42):
I remember if a cell phone went off or a teacher caught a kid with a cell phone,

(00:47:46):
they would take it.

(00:47:47):
And then the only way to get it back is a parent would have to come up to the school.

(00:47:51):
Let me tell you about my nightmare horror story.

(00:47:54):
But I mean, I want to.

(00:47:58):
No.

(00:47:58):
So, so I think some, I think somebody got sued.

(00:48:01):
I'll,

(00:48:02):
I'll have to,

(00:48:02):
if I remember,

(00:48:03):
I think somebody got sued and it made it to where like you,

(00:48:07):
because it's,

(00:48:08):
it's property.

(00:48:10):
Yeah.

(00:48:11):
You can't just take it.

(00:48:12):
Well, that's because phones are now like, well, my mom, that's how she caught that.

(00:48:15):
I had sent pictures and she's like,

(00:48:16):
had me fake arrested because you know,

(00:48:19):
that's a,

(00:48:20):
you can be a pedophile,

(00:48:22):
even as the child sending a picture to someone.

(00:48:25):
And she like.

(00:48:28):
Yes.

(00:48:29):
Yeah.

(00:48:30):
My mom's friend, it was her best friend's boyfriend at the time.

(00:48:35):
And I didn't even put it together.

(00:48:36):
But yeah, she had picked up my phone because it got caught texting at school.

(00:48:40):
She went through my phone,

(00:48:42):
saw pictures,

(00:48:43):
then had her,

(00:48:46):
Tracy is her friend,

(00:48:47):
had her boyfriend at the time who was a police officer come and arrest me and tell

(00:48:53):
me like the consequences of sending her

(00:48:57):
selfies that were not not not appropriate selfies and um yeah traumatizing that's

(00:49:05):
an adverse childhood experience thank you thank you mom like it was terrible it was

(00:49:12):
and i never even had a detention at that point like i was not um still don't have a

(00:49:18):
speeding ticket still don't have a speeding ticket no and uh but i have been fake

(00:49:22):
arrested yes

(00:49:26):
Yeah, it wasn't.

(00:49:27):
But anyway, I'm rarely at a loss for words.

(00:49:32):
But that's how my mom went through my...

(00:49:35):
And then the second other one...

(00:49:38):
She's trying to scare you straight.

(00:49:41):
Okay,

(00:49:41):
so...

(00:49:41):
But I was a good student because balancing the...

(00:49:47):
I felt very responsible for my mom's and dad's feelings,

(00:49:50):
especially in the divorce and maintaining that homeostasis.

(00:49:55):
And...

(00:49:57):
So school, I didn't really do, I didn't act out at school.

(00:50:02):
Number one, that was my safe place.

(00:50:04):
Like that was where I felt most safe.

(00:50:06):
And I actually had a really good connection with one of the teachers,

(00:50:09):
which my mom also vetoed because I think parents,

(00:50:12):
they'll see the connection that they want to have with someone and they see it

(00:50:18):
happening and they have to shut it down.

(00:50:20):
And they're like, yeah, that's, and then you have nothing.

(00:50:23):
And it's like, I had a,

(00:50:27):
I don't know.

(00:50:28):
It's, you know, again, all these things happened.

(00:50:32):
I used to drink at them.

(00:50:33):
I used to say, poor me, poor me.

(00:50:36):
And now it's like, guess what?

(00:50:38):
Those things are now like what helps me connect to other people.

(00:50:41):
Like that's what helps me understand things that happen that can make those drugs

(00:50:48):
feel so good and so relieving and make you just feel like,

(00:50:52):
okay,

(00:50:52):
they're not in the front forefront of my mind right now.

(00:50:56):
Yeah.

(00:50:56):
But the next drink is I want another like I'm trying like let's suppress it as much

(00:51:00):
as I possibly can.

(00:51:02):
Yeah.

(00:51:03):
How how long have you guys been sober?

(00:51:08):
A little over three years now.

(00:51:09):
Yeah.

(00:51:10):
Just three years.

(00:51:11):
Yeah.

(00:51:12):
Okay.

(00:51:12):
So yeah,

(00:51:13):
not,

(00:51:14):
it was like not a super long time,

(00:51:17):
but I mean,

(00:51:19):
I'm pretty confident in,

(00:51:20):
at least in myself.

(00:51:21):
Like I definitely, I don't crave drinks or drugs anymore.

(00:51:25):
Like if anything, it's very much the opposite.

(00:51:27):
I am the recoil, like a hot flame.

(00:51:30):
Like I don't,

(00:51:31):
I don't identify as much with,

(00:51:32):
but that was part of like the work I did,

(00:51:35):
the surrender I've done.

(00:51:36):
I've also done therapy work.

(00:51:37):
Like there's a lot of different things that I've done,

(00:51:40):
but I don't like see a margarita and wish I could have one.

(00:51:44):
Like I'm like, right.

(00:51:45):
the way i drank like i've never really wanted just one that wasn't the point my

(00:51:51):
point was to i can't remember when it happened but at some point like the uh

(00:51:56):
alcohol on a menu just became another word on the menu yeah it wasn't something

(00:52:01):
that i like stopped at when i was going through everything it was just

(00:52:05):
Another word, another item that's on the menu at a restaurant.

(00:52:08):
It's not something I really like jump.

(00:52:10):
Yeah, I don't see wine and be like, oh, I wish I could have a glass.

(00:52:13):
I know that is some people's experience.

(00:52:15):
It's just not mine.

(00:52:17):
But I'll tell you something really like really strange that happened to me.

(00:52:23):
last year, was it last year or the year before?

(00:52:26):
I don't know.

(00:52:27):
I had never been anywhere where marijuana was legal, where THC was legal.

(00:52:33):
And I was in Washington DC and I was,

(00:52:37):
I was walking,

(00:52:38):
um,

(00:52:38):
I was walking to a restaurant and I didn't even like,

(00:52:44):
I didn't even realize where like,

(00:52:47):
I wasn't paying attention to the stores or anything.

(00:52:49):
So I'm walking down the street and I walk past the store and I, I, I can smell it.

(00:52:56):
Like I just smell it.

(00:52:57):
And in the immediate,

(00:52:59):
like in the immediate,

(00:52:59):
my,

(00:53:00):
my brain who's been sober for so long when nobody would know.

(00:53:08):
I was there alone.

(00:53:09):
I was there alone.

(00:53:11):
And my immediate reaction was, but my wife would leave me.

(00:53:15):
So I'm just going to keep walking.

(00:53:19):
Don't have that thought because you might be like,

(00:53:21):
well,

(00:53:22):
thankfully I can get my wife to leave me.

(00:53:26):
I'm just kidding.

(00:53:26):
Start over.

(00:53:27):
Fresh start.

(00:53:30):
Yeah, that's the kind of flyby.

(00:53:32):
No, but those happen.

(00:53:33):
The flyby thoughts.

(00:53:35):
Yeah.

(00:53:37):
And I actually, I do remember my first

(00:53:40):
time and sobriety like i mean i can clear as day kind of remember a moment similar

(00:53:46):
to where it was at a stars game and it was the first time i think i was kind of

(00:53:50):
like alone alone and i was like i could go get a shot and no one would know like no

(00:53:55):
one would like no one's watching me no one's you know i'm in this public place like

(00:54:01):
And it's, I would know.

(00:54:02):
And you learn that's who really counts.

(00:54:05):
It doesn't really matter if the inventory, your amends, it's not about them.

(00:54:10):
It's about you.

(00:54:12):
And,

(00:54:12):
and I wouldn't be able to live with knowing,

(00:54:15):
but I think it's normal to be,

(00:54:17):
uh,

(00:54:19):
it's kind of,

(00:54:20):
again,

(00:54:20):
you're testing your boundary of how do I,

(00:54:23):
how can I escape?

(00:54:24):
Like, how can I, um,

(00:54:27):
And I think in my opinion,

(00:54:29):
I've told Colin this,

(00:54:30):
those kinds of moments are me reestablishing my step one.

(00:54:34):
I look at that as like,

(00:54:36):
oh,

(00:54:36):
I had like,

(00:54:37):
wait,

(00:54:37):
I need to take a minute and like remind myself I am powerless over alcohol and drugs.

(00:54:43):
And I kind of use that as a,

(00:54:45):
hey,

(00:54:46):
my higher power just gave me a small tap on the shoulder and was like,

(00:54:50):
let's bring it back to step one.

(00:54:52):
And that's kind of how I look at it.

(00:54:54):
But yeah.

(00:54:56):
I know it's hard to, again, these are things that take time and practice.

(00:55:02):
And I don't know how to explain that to a teenager either,

(00:55:04):
because it can be a hard concept to learn.

(00:55:07):
Oh, sure.

(00:55:11):
It is.

(00:55:12):
And,

(00:55:12):
you know,

(00:55:12):
when you,

(00:55:14):
when you walk it,

(00:55:16):
I've been,

(00:55:18):
I've been blessed enough to,

(00:55:20):
to teach,

(00:55:21):
help,

(00:55:21):
help,

(00:55:23):
right around 150 students from all over the country quit vaping and they probably

(00:55:29):
helped other people quit and it's like this it cycles right so really you've

(00:55:35):
probably helped way more than that i hope so like i i hope so because i i like i

(00:55:41):
remember the first time that i used like the first time i smoked a cigarette

(00:55:46):
And that like that was for me, it was there was so much pressure and I just wanted to fit in.

(00:55:52):
And I just wanted friends because I was new to the Air Force Base and I wanted

(00:55:57):
people to like me and I wanted people to connect with.

(00:56:00):
And like I just wanted that.

(00:56:03):
I don't know.

(00:56:04):
Inclusive.

(00:56:06):
But yeah, I wanted that community.

(00:56:08):
And I didn't have it.

(00:56:09):
I'd gone through the whole week of being there with,

(00:56:12):
you know,

(00:56:12):
going to school and nobody really talked to me.

(00:56:14):
And then at the end of the week, I get invited to a birthday party and like, oh, this is it.

(00:56:18):
And then there's this cigarette and it's like,

(00:56:20):
OK,

(00:56:21):
like I got to do this,

(00:56:22):
you know,

(00:56:22):
so I can be a part of the crowd.

(00:56:25):
And and so like I remember that moment.

(00:56:28):
But when I when I quit, like I remember like.

(00:56:34):
how I had to shift my mindset in so many different things,

(00:56:38):
as far as how I was going to deal with stress,

(00:56:41):
how it was self doubt,

(00:56:44):
how I was going to deal with,

(00:56:46):
um,

(00:56:46):
with the unexpected,

(00:56:48):
you know?

(00:56:49):
And, and I, like, I always say my, my dad always just,

(00:56:53):
and he still says this today,

(00:56:55):
but I accept it so much more now,

(00:56:56):
but proper preparation prevents poor performance.

(00:57:00):
And I used to hate it as a kid,

(00:57:01):
you know,

(00:57:01):
cause I'd come home and be like,

(00:57:03):
let me see your report card.

(00:57:04):
And I'd be like, it's all F's.

(00:57:05):
And he'd go proper preparation prevents poor performance.

(00:57:08):
And I'd be like, yeah, but, but what is that?

(00:57:10):
What does that really mean?

(00:57:11):
You know, like just what you would never, you'd never dig into that.

(00:57:15):
Very interesting response.

(00:57:16):
You're like, I'm in first grade.

(00:57:24):
Yeah.

(00:57:26):
Um,

(00:57:26):
but as I,

(00:57:27):
as I got older,

(00:57:28):
you know,

(00:57:29):
and,

(00:57:29):
and as I became an adult and,

(00:57:30):
and when I,

(00:57:31):
when I quit smoking,

(00:57:32):
I,

(00:57:33):
um,

(00:57:33):
and stopped using everything else,

(00:57:35):
I,

(00:57:35):
I,

(00:57:36):
I started to really kind of dig into that.

(00:57:37):
What does proper preparation prevent poor performance mean?

(00:57:41):
And, and it was really like, you know, just, you're not going to be prepared for everything.

(00:57:46):
but you can do the best that you can with the tools that you have.

(00:57:50):
Yeah.

(00:57:51):
And the more tools that you have, the better that you're going to do.

(00:57:54):
And so like,

(00:57:55):
I just started to,

(00:57:56):
to search for resources and build that toolbox,

(00:58:00):
build the toolbox.

(00:58:01):
And back in 2003, like I didn't, like, I didn't know about treatment centers.

(00:58:06):
I didn't know about anything like that.

(00:58:07):
And so it was like, I don't know, there was a church and they had coffee and

(00:58:14):
Um,

(00:58:15):
you know,

(00:58:15):
the,

(00:58:15):
that was the first try and there was like a weird lady there and it didn't,

(00:58:19):
it like,

(00:58:20):
it wasn't a good fit for me,

(00:58:22):
you know?

(00:58:22):
And I was like, I'm, I'm out, man.

(00:58:24):
I can't do this.

(00:58:25):
And, and so the, the insurance that I had at the time had some really good, like counseling, um,

(00:58:31):
um benefits and so i like i just started to do that and i you know put some tools

(00:58:37):
in the toolbox and started to research some more and and that kind of became my

(00:58:42):
proper preparation prevents poor performance so you know when the unexpected

(00:58:46):
happens what are what are my like what are my three positive self-talk statements

(00:58:51):
that i'm going to use

(00:58:53):
And when I get up in the morning,

(00:58:54):
you know,

(00:58:55):
what are what are the three things I'm going to write down that are positive

(00:58:59):
self-talk statements so that when the unexpected happens,

(00:59:02):
I can say those three things or when I get stressed out,

(00:59:04):
I can say those three things.

(00:59:06):
Or when I disagree with my wife,

(00:59:09):
I can say those three things so that I don't go back into that mode that I used to go,

(00:59:14):
that prideful mode that I used to go into that.

(00:59:17):
that Nathan's always right.

(00:59:18):
And Nathan has to have his way.

(00:59:21):
Like, I need to say those three things because I don't want to go back to that person.

(00:59:27):
I don't want to be that person ever again.

(00:59:30):
And so like, like if I can do, if I can just have that one thing in my toolbox, um,

(00:59:35):
I'm going to tell students,

(00:59:38):
listen,

(00:59:38):
if you can just write down one thing in the morning,

(00:59:42):
or if you can remember one positive phrase that you can say to yourself when a

(00:59:46):
teacher yells at you,

(00:59:48):
or when your guardians are arguing,

(00:59:51):
or when life didn't turn out the way that you didn't think it should turn out,

(00:59:55):
and you can repeat it over and over to yourself again and again,

(00:59:57):
eventually you're going to start to believe it.

(01:00:00):
And then you can forward like you don't you don't have to use nicotine.

(01:00:05):
You don't have to use THC.

(01:00:06):
You don't have to drink alcohol.

(01:00:08):
You know that you believe that statement and that life's going to be OK.

(01:00:13):
This is just a moment in time.

(01:00:15):
Yeah, great.

(01:00:16):
The great things about moments in time is they move on and you move forward.

(01:00:23):
Was it this too shall pass?

(01:00:25):
Like another phrase used during some hard times.

(01:00:29):
I also think it was one of the things that this could be.

(01:00:35):
This was what was kind of helpful for me.

(01:00:37):
Again, I was an adult.

(01:00:38):
I was 27 when I got sober.

(01:00:41):
But when I went to that meeting that Monday night,

(01:00:44):
that was the first time I kind of had heard I had a choice.

(01:00:48):
And I think I forgot that.

(01:00:51):
like what it,

(01:00:53):
someone had said,

(01:00:54):
like,

(01:00:54):
what if I told you today was like,

(01:00:57):
you'll never have to drink again after today.

(01:00:59):
And I was like, that sounds like some crazy shit.

(01:01:04):
Like that sounds like, like from someone who drank handle, I'm like, that sounds wild.

(01:01:09):
Like, okay.

(01:01:10):
And I was like, I kind of forgot I had a choice.

(01:01:15):
And I,

(01:01:16):
i think even with vaping with anything that you have that like over 30 day of

(01:01:20):
routine you're like it's not like washing your hands it's not like brushing your

(01:01:24):
teeth and it's like oh yeah i forgot i do kind of have a choice like you can take

(01:01:30):
your power back um and i had not realized that because the time that i had gotten

(01:01:37):
to drinking was a necessity

(01:01:41):
Drugs were a necessity.

(01:01:42):
It was a survival tool in my toolkit.

(01:01:44):
And I was like,

(01:01:45):
oh,

(01:01:45):
yeah,

(01:01:46):
I can take things out of my toolbox and I can replace them with better tools.

(01:01:51):
But reminding myself, hey, just so you know, this is a choice.

(01:01:57):
And I was like, oh, yeah.

(01:01:58):
I didn't know that.

(01:02:00):
And I never have had a drink since I heard that because I didn't know I had a

(01:02:04):
choice at that point.

(01:02:06):
And hearing that, I'm like, oh, yeah.

(01:02:08):
And that's what clicked for me.

(01:02:09):
And that's, again, it sounds really simple, really stupid, really small.

(01:02:13):
But for me, that was a big eye-opener of –

(01:02:17):
This is how deep I was.

(01:02:18):
Yeah.

(01:02:19):
It was like brushing my teeth.

(01:02:20):
How is it?

(01:02:22):
I mean,

(01:02:23):
I'm sure it's got to be super rewarding to see the teens when it clicks for them

(01:02:28):
when they do stop vaping.

(01:02:30):
But when they start to realize, oh, my life's so much better now.

(01:02:34):
Like,

(01:02:35):
do they come to you and tell you that I'm more productive in this area or I'm

(01:02:40):
feeling healthier?

(01:02:41):
Or I mean, what...

(01:02:43):
is like,

(01:02:43):
when's the moment they start to realize like,

(01:02:46):
oh,

(01:02:46):
this is better not vaping like every two minutes.

(01:02:49):
You probably see it before they even know it, though.

(01:02:52):
Yeah,

(01:02:53):
like,

(01:02:53):
I mean,

(01:02:54):
so sometimes when I...

(01:02:57):
I meet with a lot of them on Zoom,

(01:02:59):
and sometimes when that camera opens up,

(01:03:03):
I can see it in their face.

(01:03:04):
I'm like, you haven't had any nicotine today.

(01:03:07):
You know, like, you can see it.

(01:03:11):
But it is really cool, because, I mean, there's been...

(01:03:15):
a couple of them who have graduated high school.

(01:03:20):
And I had one reach out to me probably three or four months ago.

(01:03:24):
And he said,

(01:03:25):
hey,

(01:03:27):
I just wanted to let you know that when you were taking me through the quitting process,

(01:03:32):
you asked me what my dream life was.

(01:03:35):
And I told you that I wanted to be the best welder that there was.

(01:03:38):
And I wanted to work for this company.

(01:03:40):
And I achieved my dream life.

(01:03:45):
And, and I mean, that, that almost like wanted to make me cry.

(01:03:48):
Like I'm almost want to cry saying it, you know, and.

(01:03:50):
That's where helping others is actually,

(01:03:53):
it helps you because you think of that moment and it's like,

(01:03:56):
it's so powerful.

(01:03:57):
It's.

(01:03:57):
Yeah.

(01:03:59):
It's super, super powerful.

(01:04:01):
And there was one student locally who his mom,

(01:04:07):
she dragged him into my office literally by his ear.

(01:04:10):
And she was like, tell him what you're doing.

(01:04:16):
And,

(01:04:16):
and I felt so bad for him because I've been in that moment,

(01:04:20):
you know,

(01:04:20):
like I've been him and,

(01:04:23):
and he was like,

(01:04:24):
I've been vaping.

(01:04:25):
And she's like, tell him how much.

(01:04:27):
And he was like, he's like all the time.

(01:04:30):
And I was like, okay, all right.

(01:04:31):
You know, I was like, just sit down for a minute, you know?

(01:04:33):
And so I, I said, told his mom, I was like, will you, will you go outside with me?

(01:04:37):
And she's like, yeah.

(01:04:39):
And so we went outside and I said, Hey, why don't you leave for an hour?

(01:04:41):
Just give me an hour.

(01:04:42):
And I don't,

(01:04:44):
I would expect that kind of response to be like the Dexter type.

(01:04:47):
Like, my son's been murdering people on the street.

(01:04:50):
I mean, they're bad guys, but still, it's murder.

(01:04:53):
It was a pretty heavy response.

(01:04:56):
But she left, and we talked for an hour.

(01:04:58):
And I told him, I said, listen, I can't force you to go through my program.

(01:05:03):
If you want to go through it, you can go through it.

(01:05:05):
But if not, you don't have to go through it.

(01:05:07):
And he said, no, I'd, I'd really like to go through it.

(01:05:09):
And so he went through it.

(01:05:12):
It's typically a 12 week program.

(01:05:14):
It took him about 17 weeks, which is fine.

(01:05:18):
Cause some people take longer and that's okay.

(01:05:20):
So last year, yeah, last year he sent me a message and he said, Hey, I'm, I'm getting married.

(01:05:30):
And I was wondering if you would come to my wedding.

(01:05:33):
And I mean, right.

(01:05:36):
Like,

(01:05:37):
And there's like, it's those moments of

(01:05:42):
it's just those moments right of that connection to where you know that you've

(01:05:46):
helped someone and and there was like there was a lot of it's not just hey you got

(01:05:51):
to quit vaping it's like like what's going on in life like let's talk about that

(01:05:55):
first it's the root issue you know it's that's just a side effect that's what we

(01:06:02):
like yeah that's that's what it is are a lot of the people that come to you wanting

(01:06:07):
to quit is it something that they're wanting to do or they're being forced to

(01:06:10):
I was like, it sounds like the parents almost.

(01:06:12):
Yeah.

(01:06:13):
Or is it half and half?

(01:06:14):
Or how is that?

(01:06:16):
What are you seeing?

(01:06:16):
Are the kids just now realizing that,

(01:06:19):
oh,

(01:06:19):
I've been doing this for like two years and it's getting out of control and I need

(01:06:24):
to stop or slow down?

(01:06:27):
Like, how does that work?

(01:06:28):
Or what are you seeing?

(01:06:30):
So it's a it's a mixture of things.

(01:06:32):
So it can be the parent wants them to quit and they've kind of been thinking about it anyways.

(01:06:38):
And so they're they're open to it.

(01:06:41):
I always ask them, you have to be open.

(01:06:44):
If you're not open to this, it's not going to work.

(01:06:48):
It's true.

(01:06:50):
So at least if they're open to it, we're going to give it a shot.

(01:06:54):
The parent and the school has forced them to quit,

(01:06:58):
but they,

(01:06:59):
again,

(01:06:59):
they've still been thinking about it anyway.

(01:07:01):
So, you know, so they, they will go, okay, yeah, I'll, I'll give it a shot.

(01:07:07):
And then sometimes I,

(01:07:09):
you know,

(01:07:09):
I'll just get a message and it'll say,

(01:07:11):
Hey,

(01:07:12):
my friend told me about you and I want to quit vaping and I don't know how to do it.

(01:07:17):
And I'm, this is how much Nick I'm using.

(01:07:20):
And yeah,

(01:07:22):
I just can't do it anymore.

(01:07:24):
And, you know, cool.

(01:07:25):
You know, let's get started.

(01:07:28):
I know we are also taking a lot of your time.

(01:07:30):
I'm so sorry.

(01:07:31):
I was going to say, can people still contact you?

(01:07:33):
Like, if someone's listening to this right now and either they have a...

(01:07:37):
child or maybe it is someone who is i don't i mean anyone can technically listen to

(01:07:42):
the podcast um yeah is there helpful do they have to be in tennessee can it be

(01:07:46):
anywhere can it be no it can be it can be anywhere because again like i i go to

(01:07:50):
schools all over the nation and i'll i'll leave that school you know i'll be in

(01:07:55):
like nebraska and i'll come home and two weeks later i'll have a message from a

(01:08:00):
student and it'll be like hey

(01:08:02):
your message really kind of, I've been thinking about it really kind of got to me.

(01:08:05):
And I, if you can help me quit vaping, I'd like to go through that.

(01:08:09):
Okay.

(01:08:10):
And,

(01:08:10):
and so that,

(01:08:12):
and that,

(01:08:12):
I think you,

(01:08:13):
I have your website on how to get in touch with you and Nathan where he speaks.com.

(01:08:20):
So, I mean, I'll put that all in the show notes and whatnot.

(01:08:23):
So if you do want to get in touch,

(01:08:25):
if this sounds like something that,

(01:08:27):
again,

(01:08:27):
I don't really know.

(01:08:29):
who listens i'll continue to say that until i start to kind of know um but we're

(01:08:33):
still getting it up and roll other than my mom so i mean she'll check she listens

(01:08:38):
uh and and colin and i my mom my mom and dad will listen so yeah i mean the if you

(01:08:45):
the moms that listen so the hashtag yeah but uh yeah it's cool so you can be booked

(01:08:53):
like

(01:08:54):
as by a school district individually by the parent or even do you do both the

(01:08:59):
parent and the child like zoom like kind of doing like a family or is it more

(01:09:03):
preferred so so if a student contacts me the very first thing that i tell them is

(01:09:08):
your guardian is going to have to contact me and i know well obviously yeah i was

(01:09:12):
like legally i know yeah i know that is tough you're gonna have to go if they don't

(01:09:16):
know you're gonna have to go tell them hey they can help me quit but

(01:09:21):
But yes, so I can do both.

(01:09:24):
The Guardian can stay on.

(01:09:25):
If they don't want to stay on, I do have someone who they keep their camera off.

(01:09:31):
but they stay on the zoom and the zoom is recorded.

(01:09:33):
So if the guardian has any questions or has any doubts,

(01:09:38):
they can get the video recording and watch it all the way through.

(01:09:42):
That's no problem at all.

(01:09:44):
And yes, I can be booked by school districts, conferences, whatever.

(01:09:50):
It doesn't matter.

(01:09:52):
I'll just come and share what I know and my expertise and,

(01:09:56):
yeah well i mean you said it uh the kids know they they know when something's

(01:10:01):
authentic and when something is total yes and i think that was what i got told

(01:10:05):
early on too was don't try and go into an aa meeting with because those are the

(01:10:12):
expert bullshitters like they will read it because they used to so they'll be able

(01:10:18):
to read it like within seconds they'll know if you're

(01:10:22):
Being I mean, you can just I don't know how else to explain it.

(01:10:25):
You just hear the if it's authentic or if it's written,

(01:10:28):
which is why with like in the beginning,

(01:10:30):
we don't have like this scripted thing going.

(01:10:32):
Yeah, because it's I love it.

(01:10:34):
It's I don't know.

(01:10:36):
We don't want to be scripted.

(01:10:37):
I don't want to sound like a robot.

(01:10:38):
That's not what addiction and recovery is about.

(01:10:40):
Like.

(01:10:42):
I don't know.

(01:10:42):
This is no, this has been like, I'll be honest with you.

(01:10:48):
I've done several podcasts.

(01:10:51):
This has been one of my favorites because it's just, it is that connection.

(01:10:54):
It's just a conversation.

(01:10:56):
And yeah,

(01:10:58):
It's like I've enjoyed it.

(01:11:00):
And you're like, I'm like, I could do this all day.

(01:11:03):
Like, yeah, it's just going back and forth.

(01:11:06):
Yeah.

(01:11:09):
I mean, it's it's a it's been a really good connection for us.

(01:11:12):
So we've said at minimum,

(01:11:13):
like this podcast has helped us talk to just a lot of people and have just good

(01:11:18):
resources if people want to use it.

(01:11:20):
Yeah.

(01:11:22):
And again,

(01:11:23):
if they're looking to contact someone,

(01:11:25):
this is a way to just kind of help spread the word.

(01:11:28):
And as we do recover, thank God.

(01:11:32):
Thank God.

(01:11:34):
I wouldn't, I couldn't last much longer, but at least for me, but Colin, I mean,

(01:11:39):
You have any questions?

(01:11:41):
More will be revealed.

(01:11:42):
Oh, you can tell us what the lingo is now, like what the new words are.

(01:11:46):
Oh, man.

(01:11:48):
They change so fast.

(01:11:50):
Right now, like anxiety is knee surgery.

(01:11:55):
So if you're feeling anxious, like tomorrow's my knee surgery.

(01:11:58):
Your knee surgery.

(01:12:02):
Yeah.

(01:12:03):
What did we hear?

(01:12:04):
Ohio?

(01:12:04):
Ohio is like...

(01:12:07):
lame or yeah ohio's lame so if you have ohio riz that is you have no yeah i got

(01:12:14):
family in cincinnati so i feel bad for them that i know they they've got they've

(01:12:19):
got ohio riz it's not like yeah i don't they're all these words i'm like yeah uh

(01:12:25):
but you probably taper fade the low taper fade uh i always i always wear a hat and

(01:12:32):
typically at the end of an assembly they'll always be like

(01:12:36):
kind of haircut you got and i'll go you know i got a low taper fade and then

(01:12:40):
they're like oh i was gonna say do you try to use or again i think that that's kind

(01:12:49):
of like if i were to go into a class and like try and use those words they would

(01:12:53):
sniff it out that i am i'm trying yeah and that's not who i am you're trying too

(01:12:59):
hard i am i'm giving yeah oh hi

(01:13:05):
so i i do it in a certain way so i i have a there's a slide where i i put up a

(01:13:11):
picture my my senior picture and and i like i get to this we just come out of this

(01:13:18):
really heavy moment of where uh one of my friends has passed away in high school

(01:13:24):
and um and so a lot of the kids are crying there's this real emotional moment

(01:13:30):
And I put up my senior picture and I'll say, somehow I made it to my senior year.

(01:13:38):
And this is my senior picture.

(01:13:40):
I was at the doctor one day and the doctor came in with all this paperwork.

(01:13:46):
And you know, when the doctor comes with all the paperwork, it is not good.

(01:13:50):
and he,

(01:13:52):
he told me that I should probably call my,

(01:13:53):
my mom and my dad,

(01:13:54):
that I should probably get them there.

(01:13:55):
And, and I'm thinking like, man, what is, what is going on?

(01:13:58):
What's about to happen?

(01:13:59):
And, and I only do this at middle school.

(01:14:02):
And so I'm like, so, you know, I'm thinking like, what is about to happen?

(01:14:06):
And he said,

(01:14:07):
Nathan,

(01:14:07):
you've,

(01:14:07):
you've been diagnosed with a really complex disorder and you really need your mom

(01:14:11):
and dad here.

(01:14:11):
And I, and I tell the doctor like,

(01:14:14):
Just tell me, I'll tell my mom and dad when they get here, just tell me what it is.

(01:14:17):
I need to know because I can't take it.

(01:14:20):
Like I'm stressed out.

(01:14:20):
I want to know what it is.

(01:14:22):
And the doctor says, I'm sorry, Nathan, but you've been diagnosed with risotitis.

(01:14:28):
And the kids are kind of like, they're taking off for a minute, you know?

(01:14:31):
And then they're like, what?

(01:14:33):
And you can hear, like in some of my videos, you can hear them say that.

(01:14:37):
You can be like, what?

(01:14:39):
And then I'll go,

(01:14:40):
and then I'll go,

(01:14:41):
but there was,

(01:14:42):
there was a secondary,

(01:14:44):
a secondary like side effect to this.

(01:14:47):
And, and it had another name.

(01:14:52):
And so the doctor told me,

(01:14:53):
he said,

(01:14:53):
you know,

(01:14:53):
it's,

(01:14:54):
it's actually sigma risotitis and sigma is a word that they use all the time.

(01:14:59):
And so, yeah.

(01:15:00):
And so, and so then they, they really kind of start laughing and,

(01:15:05):
Either that or that, you know, they get real like that's cringe and I don't care either.

(01:15:10):
I don't care either way.

(01:15:11):
I've gotten their reaction and I brought them out of that heavy moment,

(01:15:14):
which that's that's what I'm trying to do.

(01:15:16):
And and so I'll go.

(01:15:20):
but there was no cure for it.

(01:15:22):
Like there's no cure for sigma risotitis.

(01:15:24):
Like you just always have it, you know?

(01:15:26):
And I said, so the doctor told me that.

(01:15:28):
So I had to do my own research.

(01:15:29):
What I found out was that there was actually a Latin term.

(01:15:32):
And I bet you guys didn't even know that there was a Latin term for sigma risotitis.

(01:15:35):
And they're all like, no, we had no idea, you know?

(01:15:38):
And I'm like,

(01:15:39):
yeah, the Latin term, it's Alpha Sigma Zatitis.

(01:15:41):
And,

(01:15:42):
you know,

(01:15:42):
and then they're just,

(01:15:43):
you know,

(01:15:43):
they're,

(01:15:43):
they're,

(01:15:44):
you know,

(01:15:44):
they're gone by that point.

(01:15:46):
And, and so just reel it in.

(01:15:49):
And then I,

(01:15:49):
I really dive into why my senior picture is up there,

(01:15:52):
but,

(01:15:54):
but I try to,

(01:15:57):
I try to do that throughout because there's,

(01:16:01):
happy moments, there's down moments, there's happy moments, there's down moments.

(01:16:05):
And,

(01:16:05):
and so I try to bring them up and down,

(01:16:07):
up and down,

(01:16:07):
up and down,

(01:16:08):
give them education,

(01:16:10):
bring them up and down,

(01:16:11):
give them education.

(01:16:11):
Yeah.

(01:16:12):
And then,

(01:16:13):
and then wrap it up,

(01:16:14):
you know,

(01:16:14):
and,

(01:16:16):
and the down moments are just real stories,

(01:16:18):
you know,

(01:16:18):
and a lot of times they'll come to me and they'll go,

(01:16:20):
you know,

(01:16:21):
that reminded me of a time when,

(01:16:24):
and it's like,

(01:16:26):
yeah,

(01:16:27):
you know,

(01:16:27):
and,

(01:16:27):
and it gives me a moment to go like,

(01:16:29):
how are you doing now?

(01:16:31):
You know, like, how are you handling things now?

(01:16:33):
You know,

(01:16:34):
and,

(01:16:34):
and if they're not handling things well,

(01:16:36):
then,

(01:16:37):
then,

(01:16:37):
okay,

(01:16:38):
what,

(01:16:38):
what are our next steps?

(01:16:39):
You know, what do we need to do?

(01:16:41):
I,

(01:16:41):
uh,

(01:16:42):
in November,

(01:16:44):
I was at a school and a student came up to me afterwards and he said,

(01:16:48):
um,

(01:16:50):
I'm glad you came today because I had a plan for after school.

(01:16:54):
Hmm.

(01:16:55):
And I said, well, let's get you connected.

(01:17:00):
And let's go talk to the counselor.

(01:17:03):
And I was supposed to have an assembly right after that one.

(01:17:06):
And so we went to the counselor.

(01:17:07):
We talked to the counselor.

(01:17:08):
And it was just, I'm a new student.

(01:17:11):
Kids call me fat.

(01:17:13):
I don't feel welcome here.

(01:17:14):
The loneliness.

(01:17:17):
Yeah.

(01:17:18):
And there's no connection.

(01:17:19):
And there's like, yeah, humans, I think that we seek connection.

(01:17:23):
we crave it we crave it and that's uh sometimes it takes just someone coming in

(01:17:30):
from the outside speaking and saying hey it's so like not directly to you you know

(01:17:37):
because when you feel directed at it can feel overwhelming or like you've been

(01:17:41):
pulled out and now you're like outed and instead it's like oh this person's

(01:17:47):
speaking to all of us so

(01:17:50):
Once something that clicks,

(01:17:52):
it's like,

(01:17:52):
okay,

(01:17:53):
maybe I can seek some guidance and you might not even know that again,

(01:17:58):
like I got told with alcohol,

(01:17:59):
I had a choice,

(01:18:01):
which sounds very,

(01:18:03):
you like you,

(01:18:04):
you'd think,

(01:18:05):
you know,

(01:18:05):
but it takes someone saying it for me to connect the two.

(01:18:09):
Yeah.

(01:18:10):
Yeah.

(01:18:10):
Sometimes you don't realize it's happening.

(01:18:12):
Right.

(01:18:13):
And that's where you get lost.

(01:18:16):
So he got, he got connected and, and really just, he just needed a friend.

(01:18:20):
Like that's all that he needed.

(01:18:22):
And so,

(01:18:22):
uh,

(01:18:23):
you know,

(01:18:23):
I left him with the council and I told him,

(01:18:24):
I said,

(01:18:24):
Hey,

(01:18:25):
I'm going to,

(01:18:25):
I'm going to check on you before I leave the school.

(01:18:28):
And I had two more assemblies that day to do.

(01:18:30):
And so I did both assemblies and,

(01:18:33):
um,

(01:18:34):
and we were walking out and that was one that my wife went to me with.

(01:18:37):
And so I, I'm, if I don't write it down, I'm going to forget it.

(01:18:42):
And, and not that that, that kid doesn't matter.

(01:18:45):
You know, it's just, I'm just going to forget it.

(01:18:47):
And so we're walking out of the school and my wife said,

(01:18:50):
said his name and she goes,

(01:18:52):
you need to check on him.

(01:18:53):
And I went, Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:18:55):
So I went in the office and I said, Hey, can you, can you call him up here?

(01:18:57):
And they're like, yeah.

(01:18:59):
And so he came and like, I seen him coming down the hall.

(01:19:02):
I mean, smiling from ear to ear, looked like a completely different kid.

(01:19:06):
And he comes in the office and he goes, Mr. Nathan, I,

(01:19:10):
I ate lunch with somebody today.

(01:19:12):
Like that was his big moment, you know, like that was.

(01:19:16):
And well, and if, if,

(01:19:20):
If I can do that, I don't listen.

(01:19:23):
I'm not there.

(01:19:24):
I'm not there to to tell you the reality of things that I'm not there to tell you

(01:19:31):
that drugs are bad and that drugs are going to kill you and that the drugs are

(01:19:35):
going to ruin your life.

(01:19:36):
Those are all things you probably already know.

(01:19:38):
You've probably already seen.

(01:19:39):
You probably already figured out.

(01:19:42):
I, I'm there to tell you that you matter, that you have value, that you have worth.

(01:19:47):
That's, that's what.

(01:19:51):
And you have choices, right?

(01:19:52):
And,

(01:19:52):
and,

(01:19:53):
and there are consequences to those choices,

(01:19:55):
but here's why you probably make the choices you do.

(01:20:00):
Like that's, that's why I'm there.

(01:20:02):
And,

(01:20:03):
and when I get to see moments like that,

(01:20:05):
it's like,

(01:20:06):
I'm just going to keep,

(01:20:07):
I'm just going to keep going,

(01:20:08):
man.

(01:20:09):
Like I'm just going to keep pushing and I'm going to get better and I'm going to keep,

(01:20:14):
you know,

(01:20:15):
contacting schools and like,

(01:20:17):
I'm just going to keep going.

(01:20:18):
I don't think they want you to stop.

(01:20:19):
So it's probably, I mean, mutual.

(01:20:21):
Yeah.

(01:20:22):
Yeah, that's awesome.

(01:20:24):
I'm excited to share this.

(01:20:25):
This was awesome.

(01:20:26):
Especially since,

(01:20:27):
like I said,

(01:20:28):
we've never really talked or considered about vaping,

(01:20:31):
but we know it's kind of like a big...

(01:20:34):
But my sponsor has a teenager and he tells me all the time about like the vaping.

(01:20:38):
I knew it was a big deal, but it never really dove much into it.

(01:20:42):
And sometimes it kind of a future trip a little bit because we have a five year old

(01:20:46):
and it's like,

(01:20:46):
man,

(01:20:46):
what's going to be the thing in 10 years?

(01:20:48):
That's going to be right.

(01:20:50):
Addiction.

(01:20:50):
But you won't we won't know.

(01:20:52):
It's a thing.

(01:20:52):
Oh, so fast.

(01:20:54):
I'm like.

(01:20:54):
I also think a lot of it could be gambling, you know, like the fan and stuff.

(01:21:01):
Do you know, do you follow Saul Malik?

(01:21:06):
It sounds familiar.

(01:21:08):
Okay.

(01:21:08):
I knew it was Saul, but it is not that one.

(01:21:11):
If not, I'll connect you with him.

(01:21:12):
So he speaks on on problem gambling and he was.

(01:21:17):
I think he gambled in college, but he speaks he speaks at schools about that.

(01:21:24):
And that is it's it's an increasing problem.

(01:21:27):
You know, it's the only disorder in the DSM five that is listed.

(01:21:32):
You have said the substance use disorder section.

(01:21:36):
And I actually just put this out on Substack and it was kind of a fun game.

(01:21:39):
I was like,

(01:21:39):
what's the only disorder that is considered a substance abuse,

(01:21:45):
but is not an ingestible substance?

(01:21:48):
And someone said tobacco.

(01:21:51):
I was like, you inhale tobacco.

(01:21:54):
Someone said porn,

(01:21:56):
which I was like,

(01:21:57):
okay,

(01:21:57):
that's actually a kind of,

(01:21:58):
but I don't think that's under substance abuse.

(01:22:00):
I think that's relationship or mood.

(01:22:04):
I don't know where that falls under.

(01:22:06):
But anyways,

(01:22:06):
gambling disorder is a literally a code number you can classify because of the

(01:22:14):
dopamine it produces when gambling.

(01:22:17):
So you, even though it's a, you have to fit with it.

(01:22:23):
I think they make the criteria a little bit harder.

(01:22:25):
It's like five of nine where a lot of them like depression is like three of nine or

(01:22:29):
like how you do severities, but nope.

(01:22:31):
Gambling disorder is the only substance use disorder.

(01:22:35):
That is not something you ingest or inhale.

(01:22:37):
Um, that is listed in the DSM five.

(01:22:39):
It's the very last page.

(01:22:42):
He, he's, uh, I, I didn't know that.

(01:22:45):
Um,

(01:22:46):
I don't, I don't even really know him.

(01:22:49):
Well, we've just been connected through Instagram.

(01:22:51):
I know that he's moving to Nashville soon,

(01:22:53):
but I live two and a half hours from Nashville,

(01:22:55):
but,

(01:22:56):
um,

(01:22:57):
he's been,

(01:22:58):
he's been on the Dr.

(01:22:59):
Phil show.

(01:23:00):
He's got a Ted talk coming up.

(01:23:03):
Um,

(01:23:03):
and so what he knows about problem gambling,

(01:23:07):
I think he'd be a really great resource for y'all.

(01:23:11):
Um,

(01:23:12):
it's also one of those things where you can like addiction you feel like you have a

(01:23:16):
handle on it and you feel like you can manage it and you feel like oh it's so easy

(01:23:21):
i can i'll just make it up yeah double down of course they're gonna win because and

(01:23:26):
yeah and that's anything can happen in uh sports gambling as someone gets hurt and

(01:23:32):
changes the whole dynamic of the game

(01:23:35):
And you know what's so funny about the way that they market it?

(01:23:37):
It is the absolute same way that you see it done in the movies or the comedies of...

(01:23:50):
where they're like selling cocaine or whatever it is.

(01:23:52):
They're like, Hey man, your first one is free.

(01:23:55):
Yeah.

(01:23:55):
You get a hundred dollars free.

(01:23:58):
That's free.

(01:23:59):
We'll match it.

(01:23:59):
Right.

(01:24:00):
Right.

(01:24:05):
I never thought about it like that.

(01:24:06):
That is exactly... I've always said it.

(01:24:08):
And they even send you, like, here's a scratch-off for you.

(01:24:11):
Do your first one and, like, scratch it on your phone.

(01:24:14):
Like, come on, guys.

(01:24:15):
Yeah.

(01:24:16):
Yeah, no.

(01:24:17):
No,

(01:24:17):
it's definitely...

(01:24:18):
Yeah,

(01:24:18):
it's just,

(01:24:19):
like...

(01:24:19):
It is the only disorder that is in the DSM-5 that is under substance use disorder

(01:24:26):
and can be diagnosed as a gambling use disorder,

(01:24:30):
which they also don't call...

(01:24:33):
like alcoholism they call it alcohol use disorder yeah so um everything is there's

(01:24:40):
been some shift changes in wording and classifications and is it it's not addiction

(01:24:47):
anymore right it's it's substance use disorder now right yes yeah yeah yeah yeah

(01:24:52):
it's it's the language is changing and and i i think that's a good thing i think

(01:24:57):
it's a you know it's a good thing but i

(01:25:00):
What I noticed,

(01:25:01):
though,

(01:25:01):
is like a lot of a lot of people who are who are actively in substance use disorder,

(01:25:09):
they will like they will.

(01:25:11):
own that addict terminology.

(01:25:14):
They're like, I'm an addict.

(01:25:16):
I used to.

(01:25:16):
I was like, I'm an alcoholic.

(01:25:18):
I can out-drink everyone.

(01:25:20):
I used to not think about it,

(01:25:23):
but now I'm like,

(01:25:25):
yeah,

(01:25:26):
that's not something I should have been so proud of,

(01:25:28):
but it's what also keeps me sober today.

(01:25:32):
I know I can't really do it differently.

(01:25:33):
I don't have that desire to be like, maybe I can be.

(01:25:37):
I just know in my heart

(01:25:40):
I'm an alcoholic.

(01:25:43):
I knew it before I got sober.

(01:25:44):
It's just getting sober I thought was impossible for me.

(01:25:48):
And here we are.

(01:25:50):
You couldn't have told me.

(01:25:52):
I'd be like, I'd laugh so hard if you told me I've been sober.

(01:25:57):
I thought it was impossible too.

(01:26:00):
But when my wife told me,

(01:26:02):
our son was three months old and she told me,

(01:26:04):
she said,

(01:26:06):
you can either be a husband or a father or you can get out.

(01:26:09):
Oh, wow.

(01:26:10):
And and that was kind of the moment where I was like, hmm, maybe sobriety isn't that far off.

(01:26:16):
Yeah.

(01:26:18):
And I mean, it's that's the and it was people say it is hard.

(01:26:24):
I don't know.

(01:26:27):
It's hard to compare, but like doing it together was very hard because we're both like.

(01:26:34):
as he'll say,

(01:26:35):
he was waiting for me to give it up,

(01:26:39):
you know,

(01:26:39):
and be like,

(01:26:39):
okay,

(01:26:40):
let's just do it.

(01:26:41):
And I'm kind of like on him.

(01:26:43):
And so we're both on each other, like who's going to give in first.

(01:26:46):
And because we both got sober the same day and with a two year old.

(01:26:53):
Yeah.

(01:26:53):
And so our son,

(01:26:54):
and so we were both having to like kind of call each other out in the same

(01:26:58):
addiction that we both had.

(01:27:00):
And it was very, uh, the first year we, it was very interesting.

(01:27:04):
Some people are like, you're so lucky you had someone.

(01:27:06):
I'm like, I don't know, man.

(01:27:07):
It's like having two people going through getting sober together with a two year old.

(01:27:12):
Yeah.

(01:27:12):
Not easy.

(01:27:13):
Yeah.

(01:27:15):
it's like three two-year-olds being in the house probably three it was three and we

(01:27:19):
all had our own rooms there was it was uh it was hard because we all had different

(01:27:27):
days and in paths and paths and it was not all equal again we didn't have same

(01:27:33):
childhood experiences or therapy experiences or

(01:27:37):
So I have to ask a question because my my marriage was it was that and,

(01:27:42):
you know,

(01:27:42):
my wife was she wasn't a drinker.

(01:27:45):
She didn't even know when we got married that I I wasn't sober.

(01:27:49):
I hid everything from her until the day that we moved in together.

(01:27:53):
And then it was and then she was just like, oh, God.

(01:27:57):
Um, so she, you know, she didn't know, but like, I have to ask this.

(01:28:01):
So when,

(01:28:02):
when you were going through that,

(01:28:03):
when you were,

(01:28:04):
you know,

(01:28:05):
going through your sobriety,

(01:28:06):
you know,

(01:28:06):
when you were figuring all of that out and life was difficult,

(01:28:10):
marriage was hard.

(01:28:12):
Was, was there a time where, where either one of you were just like, I don't know that this is.

(01:28:17):
hundred percent all the time all the time yeah all the time i was already picturing

(01:28:24):
my new life and divorce apartments.com almost every day looking like and then i

(01:28:30):
argued with him about apartments and i'm like you're already looking up like you

(01:28:33):
know what i i'm keeping the house i'm no and

(01:28:38):
you know you're selling the well another thing that doesn't help too because we

(01:28:41):
both were seeing therapists and counselors is you know they even say well a lot of

(01:28:46):
times when a couple gets sober together they don't stay together they prepped us

(01:28:50):
they were like there's a good chance this will not work out because of who you are

(01:28:55):
and who you become that was like good it's gonna be a different a different person

(01:29:00):
Yeah, because we were dating.

(01:29:02):
How long did we date?

(01:29:03):
We dated all through our... We drank through our entire dating life.

(01:29:07):
I mean, that was what we did.

(01:29:09):
It wasn't like we were together a very short time.

(01:29:12):
No, we were living together.

(01:29:14):
Yeah, we dated a good three, five years, then got married, and then...

(01:29:19):
um when we had evan so i mean it was we were together six years before we got sober

(01:29:26):
yeah i wasn't even expecting him when i said i was going to a meeting that night

(01:29:31):
for him to say me too like i thought i was like this is where we split up like and

(01:29:37):
you know it's like but what we what we learned or what i learned is

(01:29:43):
I worked with a sponsor who told me what he does is none of my business right now.

(01:29:47):
Like my business is my recovery because I was more concerned on him drinking around

(01:29:52):
me or cause he wasn't so sure about a,

(01:29:55):
you know,

(01:29:55):
being sober at first.

(01:29:56):
He didn't think he might be an alcoholic.

(01:29:58):
You know, he's like, he thought I was the problem.

(01:30:00):
I was kind of like, well, no, you're also the problem, but we would kind of get at it.

(01:30:05):
And I was reminded that,

(01:30:07):
I just need to focus on myself.

(01:30:09):
I need to not worry about what he's doing, what's happening.

(01:30:12):
We just need to grow individually.

(01:30:16):
And as we grew individually, we learned, hey, we can actually... We like...

(01:30:25):
our core things we love about each other.

(01:30:27):
But it was a lot of focusing on us instead of looking at the other person,

(01:30:32):
because that's what we were doing.

(01:30:34):
Oh, you're doing this wrong.

(01:30:35):
You're doing this wrong.

(01:30:36):
You're doing this wrong.

(01:30:37):
And instead, it was like, wait, why do I have such a problem with you doing it that way?

(01:30:43):
And then communicating like, hey, when you do this,

(01:30:48):
It's not that you don't make me feel like this.

(01:30:51):
I just feel like this.

(01:30:53):
So can we find a way to fix those types of things?

(01:30:57):
And I'll be honest, we really don't fight very often.

(01:30:59):
Like very rarely do we fight because we...

(01:31:03):
are pretty communicative about like when things are bothering us or we make an

(01:31:08):
amend pretty fast yeah i was about to say when we do fight the amends comes a lot

(01:31:13):
faster and it's about us it's it's about me it's not like a day or two long fight

(01:31:19):
where we're both you know separated you know not talking to each other for a long

(01:31:24):
time and

(01:31:25):
You don't have that awkward moment in the hallway where you're passing each other.

(01:31:28):
Exactly.

(01:31:29):
Yeah.

(01:31:29):
It's usually pretty quick where we get over things instead of holding on to it.

(01:31:33):
Because I learned that that's what my part is.

(01:31:35):
My part is that all grudge.

(01:31:37):
And that grudge, you know who that's hurting?

(01:31:40):
Not him.

(01:31:41):
It's hurting me.

(01:31:42):
Yeah.

(01:31:42):
Yeah.

(01:31:43):
I'm the bitter.

(01:31:44):
I'm the bitter Betty.

(01:31:46):
I'm better at when I just tell him,

(01:31:49):
hey,

(01:31:50):
it might sound stupid to you,

(01:31:51):
but when you suggest something in this banner,

(01:31:57):
I start to feel belittled.

(01:32:01):
A lot of times I'll tell him, this reminds me of something I grew up with.

(01:32:06):
Especially when we're parenting Evan and I start to shut down

(01:32:10):
I have to explain to him like, Hey, this is something that happened in my childhood.

(01:32:14):
And my body is just really scared that that is going to happen to Evan.

(01:32:19):
And so this is why I act this way.

(01:32:22):
And again, it's not like you made me angry.

(01:32:24):
It's like, no, I became angry, but here, let me at least give you a background.

(01:32:28):
Why?

(01:32:28):
Yeah.

(01:32:29):
Yeah.

(01:32:30):
And then he kind of understands.

(01:32:31):
And then once you have that authentic understanding that,

(01:32:35):
No, he's not going to be like, that's stupid.

(01:32:38):
He's going to go, oh, my God, that totally makes sense now.

(01:32:42):
And yeah, same for reverse.

(01:32:46):
Like, I mean, he's gotten frustrated and like he's going to play tennis today.

(01:32:51):
And, you know, that's his outlet because he's told me.

(01:32:54):
He doesn't go play tennis because he wants to be away.

(01:32:56):
It's just like his... Right.

(01:32:58):
It's his feel-good moment.

(01:32:59):
That's how he gets his endorphins.

(01:33:01):
Yeah.

(01:33:01):
And, you know, that's... Sorry.

(01:33:05):
I didn't mean to cut you on.

(01:33:06):
You're good.

(01:33:06):
You're good.

(01:33:08):
Follow-up question for Colin.

(01:33:11):
Colin, when did you...

(01:33:14):
so all all that happens when did you realize so you're on apartments.com and then

(01:33:19):
things are getting better when do you realize like what's that moment where you you

(01:33:23):
look at her and you go okay you know what i really do love her like i'm in love

(01:33:27):
with her and i don't when was that moment yeah i would like to know i'm trying i'm

(01:33:33):
trying to get you brownie points here colin so yeah no i always wanted it to work

(01:33:37):
out but of course there's i don't know

(01:33:40):
fights where you just do irrational things to probably make you happy in that moment.

(01:33:45):
Like going on to apartments.com is an irrational thing to do.

(01:33:49):
And it's just that like,

(01:33:51):
daydream kind of scenario that you know it's not going to happen but you're so

(01:33:56):
angry you just need to have an outlet to be like well I'm going to live my own life

(01:34:01):
but then you don't think about consequences of okay how are you going to you're

(01:34:05):
going to sell the house or you're going to have to do this or that that you know

(01:34:09):
there's all these other things you're not thinking about and you know I wanted us

(01:34:14):
to work but I realized you know we both come from divorced parents and it's just

(01:34:19):
kind of like

(01:34:20):
You almost put it in yourself like I'm fighting this uphill battle.

(01:34:24):
We're going to end up being two completely different people than the person we

(01:34:28):
originally married because we like to get fucked up all the time.

(01:34:31):
And now we're not.

(01:34:33):
So like, who are we going to be now?

(01:34:36):
And, you know, it's different, but we still like to do the same things.

(01:34:42):
We still like a lot of comedy and stand ups.

(01:34:46):
And then I found.

(01:34:47):
We love dark humor.

(01:34:49):
One thing that helped me was going back and doing things that I loved before my addiction.

(01:34:54):
Like I played tennis all through my childhood and going back and doing more of that

(01:34:59):
because I associated that not as a drinking or drug.

(01:35:04):
Like that was something that was separated,

(01:35:06):
even though I had played tennis,

(01:35:08):
you know,

(01:35:09):
sometimes drunk.

(01:35:10):
But for the most part,

(01:35:11):
when I think of me playing tennis,

(01:35:13):
it was like a different time before I got into my addiction.

(01:35:18):
So it's like I got to tap back into that.

(01:35:21):
Yeah.

(01:35:21):
And I mean, like I said, we just get along really well.

(01:35:23):
Like we almost started like dating in sobriety.

(01:35:27):
And that was kind of like, I don't know.

(01:35:30):
We just started like when we go on date and,

(01:35:32):
you know,

(01:35:33):
we just kind of get to know each other because I don't think we knew who we were

(01:35:36):
for a little bit.

(01:35:37):
Yeah.

(01:35:38):
I,

(01:35:39):
I asked that question because I,

(01:35:44):
when I was,

(01:35:45):
when I was getting sober,

(01:35:47):
I would,

(01:35:47):
I would threaten to,

(01:35:49):
to leave.

(01:35:50):
And especially when the day wasn't going my way, like,

(01:35:54):
I, I would just try to start a fight.

(01:35:56):
Like I just wanted,

(01:35:58):
it was almost like I wanted her to kick me out,

(01:36:00):
but she wouldn't do it,

(01:36:01):
you know,

(01:36:02):
like pushing and pushing and pushing,

(01:36:04):
but she wouldn't do it.

(01:36:04):
And so,

(01:36:05):
um,

(01:36:06):
so there was,

(01:36:07):
there was,

(01:36:07):
I guess it was,

(01:36:08):
I don't know,

(01:36:10):
really close to is really close to Thanksgiving.

(01:36:13):
Um,

(01:36:13):
I had started a fight and I was like, I'm, I'm leaving.

(01:36:17):
And so I, I get this little suitcase out.

(01:36:20):
It was almost like being a little kid,

(01:36:21):
you know,

(01:36:21):
like,

(01:36:21):
you're like,

(01:36:22):
I'm,

(01:36:22):
I'm leaving,

(01:36:23):
you know,

(01:36:24):
running away.

(01:36:28):
So I,

(01:36:28):
I throw the suitcase on the bed and I'm getting stuff out of my dresser and she

(01:36:32):
walks over all calm and nice.

(01:36:34):
And she starts putting stuff in the suitcase with me.

(01:36:38):
And I go, what are you doing?

(01:36:39):
And, and she goes, I just wanted to help.

(01:36:44):
And,

(01:36:44):
and I,

(01:36:45):
like in that moment,

(01:36:47):
I wanted to be so mad at her,

(01:36:49):
you know,

(01:36:49):
like what a jerk,

(01:36:51):
like what a jerk move.

(01:36:53):
But in that moment,

(01:36:54):
like I realized like how much of a giver she,

(01:36:57):
like she,

(01:36:58):
and she's always been like,

(01:36:59):
I just want to help.

(01:37:00):
I just want to help.

(01:37:00):
Just let me help.

(01:37:02):
Like how much of a giver she is.

(01:37:03):
And I, I thought about that in that moment.

(01:37:06):
And I thought, man, if I leave this, if I leave what I have, this giver is,

(01:37:14):
I won't make it.

(01:37:15):
I'm not going to make it.

(01:37:17):
And so I still acted like I was leaving.

(01:37:21):
I went through my whole scenario.

(01:37:23):
Well, we're still committed.

(01:37:25):
I mean, we're stubborn.

(01:37:27):
Yeah, stubborn and committed.

(01:37:30):
went to the door and I, and I, and I turned it and I did like this narcissistic thing.

(01:37:36):
I said, if you can tell me two things that you love about me, I'll stay.

(01:37:43):
And,

(01:37:44):
and she,

(01:37:44):
and she said,

(01:37:45):
she goes,

(01:37:48):
she goes,

(01:37:48):
well,

(01:37:49):
I can't tell you those right now because there's nothing that I love about you

(01:37:51):
right now.

(01:37:54):
And I was like,

(01:37:56):
dang.

(01:37:56):
Um, and so I, I like walked out to the car.

(01:38:00):
I put my bag in the car.

(01:38:01):
I went to the gas station, put gas in the car.

(01:38:04):
Like I didn't know what I was going to do.

(01:38:06):
And I just,

(01:38:07):
I finally like tuck my tail in and I drove back to the house and I said, I'm a complete jerk.

(01:38:15):
I am sorry.

(01:38:16):
And and I, I don't know what to do.

(01:38:21):
Like, I don't know how to behave.

(01:38:23):
It's a fear response.

(01:38:25):
It is,

(01:38:25):
you know,

(01:38:26):
I think we like the little bit of the drama of trying to test the boundary of when

(01:38:31):
we're

(01:38:32):
getting sober.

(01:38:34):
That's at least for me.

(01:38:35):
It's like I had to have some camaraderie and so I would create it.

(01:38:39):
We're testing the Joe Rogan podcast limit.

(01:38:41):
Yeah, we are.

(01:38:42):
We are.

(01:38:43):
But this is all really good stuff.

(01:38:45):
I've really enjoyed it.

(01:38:45):
Yeah, this has been great.

(01:38:46):
I have too.

(01:38:48):
Well, thank you so much for coming out.

(01:38:49):
Hey, thanks for having me.

(01:38:51):
You are welcome back whenever.

(01:38:52):
Thank you for listening.

(01:38:54):
Check out Nathan's website.

(01:38:55):
We'll put links below if you've liked anything you want to hear or anything.

(01:38:59):
This is the man to contact.

(01:39:00):
He is a good resource.

(01:39:03):
And thank you for listening.

(01:39:04):
Bye.

(01:39:05):
Bye.

(01:39:06):
Bye.