1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,040 It really goes down 2 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:02,520 to the mindset of that 3 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,600 every individual child has the ability 4 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,520 to their biggest potential 5 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:08,280 and really making sure that they see 6 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:09,960 each child and each student 7 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:11,280 as having the strengths 8 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,320 and the abilities to achieve 9 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:14,360 what they're able 10 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,240 to and making sure 11 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,440 that they support a system 12 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,320 that allows and enables 13 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,280 educators to do that for them 14 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,160 Welcome to Disruption Now! 15 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:35,720 I'm your host, the 16 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,600 moderator, Rob Richardson. 17 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,880 With me today, we're doing 18 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:39,680 We have to guests 19 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,000 you know, 20 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,360 we normally don't do two guests, 21 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:42,680 but got to disrupt it a little bit. 22 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,320 So we will today. 23 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,360 My first guest is Ryan MacDonald, 24 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,520 who is senior program associate 25 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:49,760 with the Council of Chief 26 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,920 State School Officers. 27 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,320 Also with me is 28 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,160 a vice president from Knowledge Works. 29 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,000 She's the vice president of Impact 30 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,200 and Improvement with Knowledge 31 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,800 Works and is based in Boston. 32 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,320 But, you know, we have a big Cincinatti 33 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,080 presence here, too, 34 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,200 so we're honored to 35 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:05,600 have them both on the show. 36 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,240 Welcome, both of you. 37 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:08,480 Thank you for having me. 38 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:09,120 We're looking forward 39 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,560 to the conversation. 40 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:11,240 No looking forward 41 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:12,560 to having you and really 42 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,760 talking about how we can 43 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:15,840 improve education. 44 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,720 It's the one of the most important things 45 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,040 that we do in our society. And 46 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:20,960 we need to constantly 47 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:22,280 innovate, constantly improve. 48 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,520 And so I'm always interested 49 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,880 and I know our listeners 50 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,720 are always interested in the innovation 51 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:28,920 that's happening within the space 52 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,960 and how we can improve it 53 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,120 to really impact more lives. 54 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,280 And so just honored to have you both on. 55 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,040 I know you are both kind of 56 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,800 co collaborating on a project. 57 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,160 If you can talk about 58 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:40,440 a little bit about what you 59 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,200 what you two are doing together 60 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,320 and what you see 61 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,520 as the vision going forward for that. 62 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,160 I'll start with you Rebecca. 63 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:48,760 Sure. 64 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:53,600 So Ryan and I came together almost six 65 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:54,880 or seven years ago 66 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,000 now in response to something that 67 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,240 both of our organizations, 68 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,040 we're hearing in different 69 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:01,920 parts of the world 70 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,560 where more and more folks 71 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,840 were starting to pay attention 72 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,840 to the research on 73 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:08,800 how students actually 74 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,040 learn, what motivates them, 75 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,240 what engages them, 76 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,320 and what we were calling 77 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,920 student centered learning. 78 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,720 And educators and innovators 79 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,880 kind of at that cutting edge were saying, 80 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,920 oh, we love this, but what is the this 81 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:22,920 what does it look like? 82 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:23,840 And at the same time, 83 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,120 Ryan's organization, 84 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,080 which focuses on the chiefs, 85 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,200 so the systems level, the folks in 86 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,520 each of the states were saying, well, 87 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,480 if we want to support this, 88 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,680 what would the policy be? 89 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,480 What would the regulation be? 90 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:37,160 And because it was 91 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,520 it was pretty brand new. 92 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,400 Again, this was starting 10 years ago. 93 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,520 So our organizations came together 94 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,240 in about seven years ago 95 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,200 to try to develop 96 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:46,920 a set of what we've called 97 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:48,880 educator competencies, 98 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,520 so that groups of educators, school 99 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,480 districts, states 100 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,960 that are trying to move in 101 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,000 this more transformative 102 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,960 direction, have a roadmap, 103 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,480 have a set of ways of saying, oh, 104 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:02,840 this is what it means 105 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,680 to truly be learner 106 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,800 centered, to truly build 107 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,360 collaboration systems, schools 108 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:10,400 that are meeting the learner 109 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:11,760 where they need and are helping 110 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,040 point them towards the future 111 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,480 of of where they want to go. 112 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,480 And the reason we're 113 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,360 kind of here and back, you know, 114 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,640 we said it seven years ago. 115 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,400 We just came out with a whole 116 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,720 refresh of the competencies. 117 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:26,920 So maybe I'll kick it to Ryan 118 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:28,080 to talk about why we thought 119 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,080 this was the time now 120 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,240 and kind of what we built into 121 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,640 the new version and 122 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:33,680 why we're really excited 123 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:34,920 to talk about it. 124 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,680 Yeah, thanks, Rebecca. 125 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,880 Yeah, I think it was almost two years ago 126 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,480 we came back together to reexamine 127 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:43,760 kind of what had happened 128 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,440 with the educator competencies. 129 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:46,840 First, to really just understand 130 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,680 we had released them at that point 131 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,280 around five years ago 132 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,520 and just wanted to know, like, 133 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,320 how have they been used in the field, 134 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,600 how the educators and communities 135 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:56,920 been able to utilize them 136 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,720 and able to help their transformation 137 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,280 towards a more student centered approach. 138 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,480 But then also, 139 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,800 we had an understanding that the field 140 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,320 had begun to focus and understand 141 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,000 the importance of directly 142 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,160 talking about equity 143 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:10,800 and the importance 144 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,600 of approaching education 145 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:13,960 through an equitable lens. 146 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,280 So we wanted to make sure 147 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,400 to go back and look, 148 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,640 how can we pull out 149 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,640 and make sure that 150 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,000 equities at the forefront. 151 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,600 I think in the original copy 152 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:22,680 it was there. 153 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:23,920 But nonetheless, 154 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:24,800 I think you were looking at it 155 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,480 through a fully equitable lens. 156 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,160 You might not be able 157 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,200 to see it at the forefront. 158 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,160 So we wanted to make sure 159 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,920 that we brought that up 160 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,280 in the in the work. 161 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:34,560 And then the third 162 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,640 just wanted to understand 163 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:36,520 how can we better 164 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,040 support educators 165 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,800 in the system, in the field 166 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,920 to utilize them in a more 167 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,840 and more actionable ways. 168 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,600 So thinking about whether or other ways 169 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,480 we can package and put the 170 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:48,640 companies together 171 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,120 to provide a more usable 172 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,480 resource for the field. 173 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,160 So we went through a process over 174 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,040 two years of doing some intense 175 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,600 stakeholder engagement 176 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,240 and doing bunches of focus groups 177 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,320 with a wide variety of stakeholders 178 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,600 and including teachers, educators, folks 179 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,120 that have used the document itself 180 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,040 previously, folks 181 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,720 that hadn't before state leaders, 182 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,400 but then also really equity and 183 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,160 civil rights oriented 184 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,640 organizations and individuals 185 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:18,520 who could really help 186 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,480 elevate that equity within the document 187 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,000 and also learners themselves, 188 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,160 the students that are 189 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,320 actually experiencing 190 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,120 this type of teaching 191 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,480 and learning to make sure 192 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,360 that we're portraying and putting forth 193 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,520 what what do they want 194 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,760 to experience in their learning 195 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,040 and make sure that their voices 196 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,240 are in the document. 197 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,240 And so in October, 198 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,720 we were able to kind of 199 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:37,560 culminate that with 200 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,200 a release of the new refresh, 201 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,640 educate our competencies 202 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,680 to hopefully be able to continue 203 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,000 to provide this field support 204 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,280 and thinking through 205 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:47,880 kind of what is that, 206 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,440 particularly for a team of educators 207 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,720 and school buildings, 208 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,680 and then support the broader system 209 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,200 to ensure that the 210 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,760 system aligns and our team 211 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:57,360 what they want to do, 212 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,200 that types of teaching and learning. 213 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,560 So how are we defining equity 214 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,120 and how and you know, 215 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,600 because we equity is a it's a good term, 216 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,960 but it's it's very difficult 217 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,600 sometimes when you are 218 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:11,760 when you have equity. 219 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:12,760 And then I think it's 220 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,480 even that much harder 221 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,640 to make it part of the culture. So 222 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,240 how are you guys going about that? 223 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:20,120 Because it's it's 224 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,600 much easier said than done. 225 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,280 Hundred percent. 226 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,240 And it's one of those 227 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,080 kind of learnings 228 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,760 that we did between 229 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,080 those two versions in that first version. 230 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,640 We put lots of good stuff in there, 231 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:33,760 but we actually realized 232 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,280 we never defined equity. 233 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,400 We just as as Ryan said, 234 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,040 like if you are already equity minded, 235 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,640 maybe you would see it 236 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:41,680 in the new version. 237 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,960 What we did is we adapted 238 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,120 the National Equity Project's definition 239 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,280 because they had already 240 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:47,520 they've done such amazing 241 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,880 work in this field for so long. 242 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,440 And they have a specific definition 243 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,040 where they look at 244 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,560 equity specifically 245 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,800 through an education lens. 246 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,120 So that's kind of was our starting point. 247 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,560 But then what we did from there was 248 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,280 we looked at all of the specific 249 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,120 skills, attributes, mindsets 250 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,080 that then could fit under that, 251 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,080 because just because 252 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,640 you have sort of a high 253 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,160 a high level definition doesn't 254 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,920 necessarily tell educators, well, 255 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,080 what do I do on a day to day? 256 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,200 And so that's kind of 257 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:24,960 what's built into the 258 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,520 competencies themselves. 259 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,960 And so what we did in this version 260 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,880 is we actually coded them. 261 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,160 So in the paper version, 262 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,960 there are the downloadable version, 263 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,160 there's little tags, 264 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,360 and then the digital version, 265 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:38,800 you can search just on that. 266 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,040 So it's really what you want to know is 267 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,280 how can I be learner 268 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,960 centered and equity minded? 269 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,200 You can kind of toggle it 270 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,360 in our interactive version 271 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,000 and you can see the competencies 272 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,720 that just focus on that. 273 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,160 And just I just found it. 274 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,680 I can't I can't recite it by heart. 275 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,080 But what we 276 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,640 the definition from national equity 277 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,560 projects that we use 278 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,280 is that educational equity 279 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,720 means that each child receives 280 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,280 what they need to develop 281 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,880 their unlimited academic 282 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,360 and social potential. 283 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:09,120 And working towards 284 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,280 equity in schools involves ensuring 285 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:13,600 equally high outcomes 286 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,800 for all participants 287 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,560 in the system, removing 288 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,120 the predictability of success or failure 289 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,200 that correlates with any social, 290 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,320 economic or cultural factor, 291 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,360 interrupting equity in equitable 292 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,160 practices, examining biases, 293 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:29,680 creating inclusive, 294 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:30,720 multicultural school 295 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,560 environments, and discovering 296 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:36,120 and cultivating unique gifts, talents 297 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,400 and interest of each 298 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,040 and every member 299 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,120 of that learning community. 300 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,960 That's a long definition 301 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,040 no longer moved everybody in academics. 302 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:45,920 That's why I don't have it memorized. 303 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,520 Yeah, you should look it up in the paper. 304 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,800 I knew we had done it. Right. 305 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,640 But, you know, and it's it's 306 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,400 one of the things that we both are 307 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,000 proud of and get criticized 308 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:55,960 for in the confidentially 309 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,320 is we are really thorough. 310 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,720 There's a lot in those competencies. 311 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,840 It's a big, deep, rich document. 312 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,440 But part of what we've tried to do 313 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,440 is break it down 314 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:07,720 so that there's lots 315 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,680 and lots of different ways, 316 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:10,640 different educators 317 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,440 at different parts of their journey 318 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,560 and different roles can use them. 319 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,640 So you don't have to 320 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:16,800 sort of start on page one 321 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,240 and go all the way to the end. 322 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:19,520 There's lots of different ways 323 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:20,880 to interact with them, 324 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,880 to test your own practice, to learn. 325 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:24,840 So and that definition 326 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:25,520 is just one of them. 327 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,800 You may not tackle all those pieces. 328 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,800 Of equity at once. Yeah. 329 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:30,840 But at least you 330 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,560 have that to start thinking about. 331 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,160 So I think it's probably 332 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,800 more than you asked for. 333 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,080 I thought being equity, 334 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,240 having an equity mindset, 335 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,760 you know, I think it 336 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,800 it requires 337 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:41,960 I mean, the definition said a lot, 338 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,360 but essentially I look at it 339 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,120 as a way that you have to learn how to 340 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,360 teach in a way that is not 341 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,920 necessarily straight 342 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,080 across the board universal. 343 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,000 And you have to give. 344 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,360 You have to give tools 345 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,200 that are specific 346 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,440 to the situation, environment, 347 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,840 a context that you're dealing with them 348 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 and not just say you can have one way 349 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,640 and one way of teaching it, 350 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:07,480 and that's it. 351 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,800 And expect that that's going to work 352 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,240 for all kids in every situation. 353 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:11,880 Right. 354 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,440 That's kind of my view 355 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,200 from what you said. 356 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,160 And in the summarizer, Brian, 357 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:16,800 I want to get to you 358 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,720 and actually ask you to jump in. 359 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,040 And I want to ask you 360 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,480 this question here, too. 361 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,800 How do we get from the chief of staff 362 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,480 point of view, how do we get 363 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:26,600 equity 364 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,240 minded kind of a culture to be there? 365 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,480 Because it's one thing to say 366 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:32,800 equity is important. 367 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,560 Have a check to check the box statement. 368 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:35,920 We believe in equity. 369 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,080 But when you look at 370 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,400 how how things are run, 371 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,120 you know, there's not 372 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,320 equity in and in things, 373 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,640 but we say we love equity 374 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:44,560 and we say these things. 375 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,000 But if you look at 376 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,040 a lot of organizations, 377 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,200 you don't see equitable results in 378 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:50,920 much of how things are applied. 379 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:52,120 So how do you have that? 380 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,240 How do you challenge your chief of staff 381 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,840 and folks to really 382 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,480 have that equity mindset? 383 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,360 Yeah, that's what I was going to say. 384 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,200 Your previous point is really 385 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,280 you know when we think around 386 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:05,120 kind of understanding 387 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,200 each kid as individuals. 388 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,680 Like that's what we're talking about 389 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:08,240 when we're talking 390 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,320 about kind of student center. 391 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,680 Personalized learning 392 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:11,760 is understanding 393 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,680 that that one size fits 394 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,680 all kind of industrial model 395 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:16,520 where there's the teacher 396 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,560 at the front of the classroom 397 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,320 giving the instruction and everyone's 398 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,960 going to move on to their next class, 399 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,000 but really understand 400 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,440 that every child 401 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,320 shows up in a classroom with their own 402 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,360 individual strengths, 403 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,320 the things they need to work 404 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,840 on, their interest in supporting a system 405 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,000 that allows educators 406 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,120 to tap into that 407 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,360 and create the learning environments 408 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:35,880 for that. 409 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,080 But when when it comes to a kind 410 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,880 of setting and understanding 411 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,600 how to get an equity mindset, 412 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,240 I think with our work 413 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,240 and the center. 414 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,760 So we really encourage state education 415 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,280 agency folks and the folks that lead them 416 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,880 to really start internally 417 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,680 and understand. 418 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:52,640 What does equity mean 419 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:53,640 to you at the state? 420 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:54,880 Every state is individual. 421 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,000 Every state brings their own history, 422 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,800 their own understanding, 423 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,320 but really understand kind of 424 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,960 what does equity mean for your state 425 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:01,880 and for your staff 426 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,000 and really do the learning 427 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,040 to kind of understand 428 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,320 what does equity mean within your state? 429 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,440 A state's education is going to think 430 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,360 they have all the answers, 431 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,600 but unless they start to really 432 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,880 take the time to understand 433 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:15,760 what is equity mean, 434 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:16,840 where are the inequities 435 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,200 within their states 436 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,120 that they see through not only the 437 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,560 test scores, but just 438 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:23,760 in proportionate support 439 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,480 and surrounding resources. 440 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,200 They're making sure 441 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,080 that things are kind of 442 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,240 what is the state of their state 443 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,920 and thinking about kind of how 444 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,640 their agency can better support 445 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,760 a more equitable learning environment. 446 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:36,800 It really goes down 447 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,280 to the mindset of that 448 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,360 every individual child has the ability 449 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,280 to their biggest potential 450 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,040 and really making sure that they see 451 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,720 each child and each student 452 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,040 as having the strengths 453 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,080 and the abilities to achieve 454 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,120 what they're able 455 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,000 to and making sure 456 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,200 that they support a system 457 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,080 that allows and enables 458 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,040 educators to do that for them 459 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,240 or with them, I should say. Yeah. 460 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:58,760 Yeah. 461 00:12:59,120 --> 00:12:59,840 Go ahead, Did 462 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,320 you want to say something Rebercca? 463 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,240 Well, I was just going to share 464 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,000 a little bit of a personal story, 465 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:05,520 because you were 466 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:06,200 you were kind enough 467 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,200 to kick us off earlier, 468 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,520 sharing a little of your background. 469 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,040 And I think it sort of complements 470 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,240 what Ryan is talking about. 471 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,080 And so my only sibling has Down syndrome, 472 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,000 and I grew up in a school system 473 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,960 that was actually really, 474 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,200 really well equipped to meet her 475 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,280 very specific needs. 476 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:30,520 I was kind of on the 477 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,440 other end of the spectrum, you know, 478 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,360 I'm the smarty pants researcher, 479 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,160 you know, had lots 480 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,560 and lots of kind of individual 481 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:41,360 drive and motivation and very type A 482 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,520 and the school system was pretty 483 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,360 well equipped to also serve me. 484 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,160 It was those huge percentage 485 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,000 of students in the middle 486 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,320 that in our particular school system, 487 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,080 they just kind of grouped in the middle 488 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,160 and got very kind of mediocre 489 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:00,520 kind of baseline, 490 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:01,560 like everybody kind of 491 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:02,400 got the same thing. 492 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,640 And so from a very early age, 493 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,000 I was really attuned to how 494 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,160 well my sister, even with her 495 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,480 profound disability, 496 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,800 and I arrived in a school system 497 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,600 that was able to meet what we need 498 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,600 and how fast numbers of kids 499 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,000 were just kind of bored and disengaged. 500 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,720 And so, 501 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:23,840 you know, no doubt that 502 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,680 that influenced the research 503 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,240 that I later started 504 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,800 being both a proponent of 505 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,040 and being around student centeredness. 506 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:31,600 Because 507 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,080 one thing that we have just 508 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,600 absolutely blasted out of the water 509 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,320 at this point, there is no it is a myth 510 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,240 that there is an average student. 511 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,600 Every single student has a diverse 512 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,280 set of needs and backgrounds 513 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,600 and interests and passions. 514 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,680 And so from the research standpoint 515 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,480 that I look most at, from the policy 516 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,120 standpoint that Ryan looks most at, 517 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,800 we're really trying to think about 518 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,760 how do we kind of craft 519 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:57,920 the systems that are 520 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,520 addressed, the fact that 521 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,400 every single learner has the potential 522 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,320 to learn at a very high button, 523 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,560 to learn at a very high level, 524 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,840 if they're given the kinds of 525 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,240 learner centered approaches 526 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,760 that we're hoping 527 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,080 more and more folks will use. 528 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,840 As time goes on. Absolutely. 529 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:15,440 I mean, I think that's 530 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,920 you make you make such a great point from 531 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:18,560 a couple of things. 532 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,040 I mean, looking at how students learn. 533 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:22,480 I shared the story with you earlier 534 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:22,920 and I've shared it 535 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,280 with listeners a lot of times. 536 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,920 I won't go into the great depths, 537 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,800 but a lot of people know I have ADHD. 538 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,840 And and in elementary school, 539 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,520 I struggled a whole lot. 540 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:32,840 But, you know, eventually 541 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:33,680 a light bulb went off 542 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,320 despite a teacher and some counselors 543 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,480 telling me I wouldn't go to school, 544 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,440 I wouldn't go to college. 545 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,320 I should say I did 546 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,120 and was very successful at it. 547 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,600 But I do know that, 548 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,320 you know, back then how they diagnosed 549 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,800 ADHD, you were diagnosed as a disability 550 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,320 like yourself is like you couldn't 551 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,840 do versus a learning difference. 552 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,720 Like it's 553 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,840 I'm better at listening to books 554 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,120 and I can absorb the. 555 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,240 Better than a lot of people 556 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,120 can reading it cover to cover. 557 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,400 But as long as you're learning it, 558 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,960 then we need to give 559 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,960 that to both teachers and students 560 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,160 the tools to learn in the way 561 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,720 that is receptive to the students 562 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,480 instead of really holding on to 563 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,200 this is the way we've always done it. 564 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,440 People have to read a book, 565 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,160 and that's the only way you can learn it. 566 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,280 That is not factual. 567 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,560 You can you can read. 568 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,280 You can listen to a book 569 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:22,960 read audible and not take notes. 570 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,080 And I can regurgitate what happened. 571 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,760 Much better than I can. 572 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Reading the paperback 573 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,440 now, some people are the opposite way. 574 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,040 But 575 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,040 but now we definitely have to 576 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,480 we have to teach models 577 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,000 that where people can pivot 578 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:35,840 and not necessarily 579 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,040 hold on to what worked 580 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,840 for them or what they 581 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,160 they thought was the right way. 582 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,120 And just pivoting 583 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,200 and really disrupting how we teach is 584 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,320 very, very, very important. 585 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,320 I would say second 586 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,440 back to our early point 587 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:50,680 with when we talk about equity, 588 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,760 and it's been unfortunate that 589 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:54,440 some things I think 590 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,280 have gotten politicized. 591 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,280 It shouldn't be politicized. 592 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,000 I'll put science in that category, 593 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,760 then I'm next going to put education. 594 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,440 And when I look at it 595 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,520 and I think, frankly, 596 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,840 why it's hard to deal 597 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,040 with talking about equity is because now, 598 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,280 you know, critical race theory 599 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,040 and things like that 600 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,400 have been havee become 601 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,040 a political football 602 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,880 when they shouldn't be critical. 603 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,760 Race to me involves critical thinking. 604 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:19,760 So we're saying 605 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,160 we're going to look and understand 606 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,840 race from a critical perspective, 607 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,120 not from a simplistic point of view 608 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,760 or the way we've traditionally taught. 609 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,120 So I think as we talk about doing equity, 610 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,200 we have to reason why it's tough. 611 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,080 And I think why we have 612 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,040 to have it as a culture is 613 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,040 we have to have a culture 614 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,120 where people can be challenged, 615 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:39,440 specifically challenged 616 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,960 some of their traditional beliefs. 617 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,480 And that's very difficult for people 618 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,760 because we've now tied it in. 619 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,240 I think the political environment 620 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,440 has done no favors to us, 621 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,360 but we've tied this in to like 622 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:50,640 this is part of your identity, 623 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,600 like I must be against this 624 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,320 if I vote this way 625 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,120 and nobody could explain why, 626 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,200 I just have to be against it. 627 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:57,480 All right. 628 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:57,960 So like 629 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,160 and I think this is a huge problem. 630 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:00,880 I don't know how you guys 631 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,440 are tackling this, 632 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,520 because you obviously have to work 633 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,360 in a bipartisan manner 634 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,080 in order to get things accomplished. 635 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:06,880 But I find 636 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,360 I become very concerned about the way 637 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,360 politics is entering education 638 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:14,200 in a way that people 639 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,760 don't even want to address 640 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,440 issues that we should be talking about. 641 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,560 I'm curious as to how 642 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,560 you approach these conversations 643 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,440 and how we can hopefully 644 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,600 change this narrative. 645 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,280 I do. I do find it quite disturbing. 646 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:25,960 So I know that was a 647 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,400 challenging statement. 648 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,920 I said a lot, but I'll turn it over, 649 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,160 you guys, and just 650 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,840 really just get your perspective on 651 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,040 how do we how do we navigate 652 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:33,840 in this situation 653 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,440 knowing how toxic 654 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:36,200 the climate is when 655 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,200 you talk about anything 656 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,840 with race inequity, 657 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:39,840 but you still have to 658 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:40,840 you have to talk and deal with it 659 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,880 because it's the reality of where we live 660 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:43,840 and where we are 661 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:45,440 now. 662 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,280 I'll say from this episode, 663 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,960 I mean, we represent 664 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,640 all the chiefs in the country, 665 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,760 and what we try to do 666 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,800 is be that kind of our executive 667 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,800 editor often talked about like 668 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,000 that friend next to them, 669 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,960 helping them walk through their journey 670 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,080 and really be a resource for them 671 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,520 to make sure that they can trust us 672 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:07,480 when they come to us, 673 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,960 that they can trust the information 674 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,600 we're providing them 675 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,480 and what we have and invested in working 676 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:14,840 around equity more. 677 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:15,960 We built out an equity 678 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,120 access team at the council, 679 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,360 and we have a chief equity officer 680 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:21,840 and have been running 681 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:22,960 like an anti-racism 682 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,160 webinar series for them 683 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,440 and really helped to kind of be 684 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,760 a learning organization for them 685 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,240 to help them understand 686 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,640 the kind of history around 687 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,640 the intersection of racism 688 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:35,760 and our discussions with them 689 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,280 and really be a support to them 690 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,840 to help be a resource for them 691 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,600 as they move forward 692 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,080 and work individually. 693 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,520 You know, with the chiefs in that 694 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:44,800 these are really kind of 695 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,720 help them and think through, 696 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:47,920 kind of expand their thinking. 697 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,000 We do a lot of posing questions 698 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:50,640 to them, to them, 699 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:51,840 and to explore and really think 700 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:52,760 that really helps to try 701 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,480 to push their thinking around 702 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,360 kind of what's happening 703 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,960 within their respective communities. 704 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,320 I'm curious like so Rebecca 705 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,480 when people come in, 706 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,760 because I know there's because, 707 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:04,600 look, I've dealt with it 708 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,160 on the university level 709 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,880 and I've had multiple 710 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:08,960 ways of communicating it, 711 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,720 but I always did communicate 712 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,200 the need for equity. 713 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,880 I had to happen. 714 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,200 How do you deal with it 715 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,200 when you get that resistance, 716 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:17,760 when you know what 717 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,720 you're doing objectively 718 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,240 is based on the research? 719 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,600 But humans aren't, myself included, 720 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,120 aren't always rational. 721 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,280 We're going to go back to our 722 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,960 our old biases and beliefs. 723 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,720 And so I'm sure you've had a situation 724 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:31,600 where someone sees this 725 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,040 that they feel like 726 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:33,800 you're doing something 727 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,000 from a political lens 728 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,480 when it's based on research 729 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,840 and what's actually best for the kids. 730 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,880 How do you approach that situation 731 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:40,400 when it happens? 732 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:41,960 I know. I know what's happened. 733 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:42,680 Oh, yes, indeed. 734 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,400 I am laughing because 735 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,160 we're in the middle 736 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,920 of like three of those situations. 737 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,080 I'm sure in real time what you could say. 738 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,920 There's not a confidential. 739 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,560 Yeah, not let let's just say we 740 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,280 because we work in. Likewise. 741 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:57,920 Where, you know, 742 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,600 we don't cover all 50 states 743 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,000 the way CXO does, 744 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000 but we are in very deep partnership 745 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,480 with blue states, red 746 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,080 states, purple states. 747 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,080 And, you know, political football, 748 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,920 I think is the right phrase. 749 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,960 We say it a lot right now, you know. 750 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,040 So a couple of things, Rob 751 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,480 I mean, we really 752 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,920 we as an organization 753 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,080 have been on our own journey 754 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,840 to better understand our own 755 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,240 diversity, equity, 756 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,600 inclusion, justice, 757 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,360 both external positioning and internally. 758 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,040 How do we support staff? 759 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,480 How do we talk to each other? 760 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,120 What kinds of systems do we have? 761 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:36,800 So we're we're in the middle 762 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,800 of a pretty deep journey ourselves. 763 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,480 And what that's doing is it's 764 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,960 giving us more clarity on 765 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:45,240 our values. 766 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,720 And what do we who 767 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,640 who do we want to be 768 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,840 as an organization in the field? 769 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,760 And so what we try to do 770 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,960 can't always do it, 771 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,400 but we try to start 772 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,840 from that position and say, 773 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,200 this is who we are, 774 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,200 this is what we believe in. 775 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,800 This is the kinds of education 776 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,400 transformation we're working for. 777 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,760 If you want to work with us, 778 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,720 just know that that's 779 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,800 what you're going to get. Right. 780 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,360 And so in some ways, 781 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,200 because we're talking about concepts 782 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,280 like competency based 783 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,160 education and performance assessment 784 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,720 and sort of all these 785 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:20,240 wonderful ways of 786 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,960 starting to understand learning 787 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,200 that we think are apolitical 788 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,600 but become very political. 789 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,520 You know, so from a certain standpoint, 790 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,720 we're trying to navigate that by saying, 791 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:33,920 here's who we are. 792 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,800 Yeah, this is this is what we stand for. 793 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,480 Now, we have lots of love. 794 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,240 We've been around for over 20 years now. 795 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,240 So lots of folks have known us 796 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,080 in different places from different ways. 797 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,400 So so they know you get 798 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,520 to ask those questions. 799 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,280 You know, and I you know, 800 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,960 I've been writing about 801 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,160 and speaking about student 802 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,720 centered research for years. 803 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,120 And I don't always speak to, 804 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:56,800 you know, audience 805 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,880 like you said, like Bill, I've gotten 806 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,040 will any challenge. 807 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,360 I mean, you're going to 808 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,160 and I think you're going to it's 809 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,120 going to continue more. 810 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,640 What I tend to do 811 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,640 is, you know, especially 812 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,360 if it's somebody I know. 813 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,800 But even if it's not, I try to get 814 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,800 an understanding of 815 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,200 where do they base their values on. 816 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,000 There are some people that you 817 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,080 that you can't agree with that 818 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,640 they're just there like but 819 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,680 generally speaking, 820 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,480 people have some basis of values 821 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,800 that they follow. 822 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,320 And I work to try 823 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,520 to get them to understand 824 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,720 that this is coming from 825 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,440 their values perspective. 826 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,280 This is not coming 827 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,600 from a different values perspective. 828 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,960 But then then then you follow. 829 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,120 And generally, that's been successful, 830 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,120 having people understand 831 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:36,680 where they come from 832 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,080 and communicate and just get them to 833 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,160 really just think about it, 834 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,800 not necessarily attacking them to say 835 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,720 like your race is your bias, 836 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,440 but getting them to understand 837 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,200 their perspective 838 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,880 and then seeing this perspective 839 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,280 in a way that reflects their values, 840 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,240 often works. 841 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,320 That's that's usually what I do 842 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,080 when I deal with people 843 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,120 that have a different perspective 844 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:56,920 or just automatically are, 845 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,600 you know, against critical race theory 846 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:59,960 without actually understanding 847 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,760 what critical race theory is, 848 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:03,920 because I think we have 849 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,200 to work individually 850 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,200 to get ourselves past 851 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,280 this collective madness 852 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:07,960 that is going on, 853 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,200 because it is collective madness 854 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:09,960 that is going on 855 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,200 right now in our society. 856 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,280 And I think a lot of it is fueled 857 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,200 by how social media 858 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,720 and things work at this time. 859 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,160 But I do think it's very important. 860 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:17,880 Let let's switch 861 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,400 the topic a little bit and go to 862 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,360 actually I want to talk about 863 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:22,320 related to that topic, 864 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:22,960 but a little bit 865 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,480 to talk about the pandemic 866 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,840 and the effect that's had on your work 867 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,000 and how you've seen 868 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,160 that kind of play out. 869 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,640 So just in general, 870 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,520 the pandemic, I think, 871 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,440 has done several things. I think it's 872 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,320 it's created a a 873 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,440 new normal in some ways 874 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,560 in terms of how humans 875 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,600 and how we interact. 876 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,960 I think there will always 877 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,080 be an urge to have face to face. 878 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,760 But I also think now, you know, 879 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,240 what we're doing now 880 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,480 digitally is now commonplace. 881 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,680 It's just as common to to have 882 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,520 a zoom meeting as it is to 883 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,480 if you need to look up information 884 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,840 to Google like a zoom 885 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,200 and Google are like now terms, 886 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,600 we can kind of have together. 887 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,640 That's because of the pandemic now. 888 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,200 And people have meetings now. 889 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,480 I'm sure the whole policies have changed 890 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,560 in terms of how people meet people. 891 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,240 Now, thought you couldn't do that. 892 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,240 You had to meet in person. 893 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:10,960 You had to have some 894 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,400 strategy meetings in person, you know. 895 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,600 So we've learned. 896 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,960 We've changed, but education, 897 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,280 I'm sure, has had some challenges. 898 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,120 What have you 899 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:20,040 what have you seen 900 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,880 as the challenges and the opportunities 901 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,240 in this moment with the pandemic, 902 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,560 with the work that you guys are doing? 903 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,600 I think one of the things we've seen 904 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,440 and even connected to that 905 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,360 educator Comess, is 906 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,600 an understanding that the current system, 907 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,960 like it was a stress test 908 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,640 in a way that the pandemic 909 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,600 and what we've learned 910 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,120 is that really this 911 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,240 type of model doesn't work, can't work. 912 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,000 And so we've seen 913 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,960 a real interest from states, 914 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,880 but also 915 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,200 around kind of looking 916 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,880 at education in a new way. 917 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,560 And I think that's what 918 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,040 the kind of benefit has been. 919 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,400 It exposed the inequities 920 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,800 within our system to everyone 921 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,880 and really force everyone 922 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,480 to look at kind of how we're doing school 923 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,760 and seeing the challenges 924 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,120 that this model has taken. 925 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,040 And what we've seen 926 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,000 and what I've heard from the folks 927 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,480 I work with at our schools, 928 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,880 that we're already on this model 929 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,720 that understood and 930 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,040 empowered their learners 931 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,600 to own their learning. 932 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,000 They have the relationships 933 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,280 with their students already 934 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,200 and saw them as 935 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,560 individuals and understood 936 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:28,480 what they show up 937 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,040 in the classroom 938 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:29,880 and that they were able 939 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,720 to transition to this model 940 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,360 to have this kind of hybrid 941 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,400 remote learning model 942 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,960 a lot more smoothly 943 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:36,720 than some of the more 944 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240 traditional education schools. 945 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,360 And so we want to take 946 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,200 advantage of that and highlight 947 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,280 that and illustrate 948 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,720 that there is a new model 949 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,760 that's out there 950 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,400 that's been around for a while 951 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,200 that state school districts can look to 952 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,840 as enabling more empowerment 953 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,360 of their learners 954 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,000 so they don't have to be 955 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,560 in front of them at all times 956 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,240 and know that they're learning. 957 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,400 But also that builds 958 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,920 those strong relationships 959 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,320 with a learner. 960 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,800 And even through the work, 961 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,880 we finish this project 962 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,600 through the end of the pandemic 963 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,760 and had this shift and integrated 964 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,640 kind of the importance 965 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,640 of social emotional learning 966 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,760 in the competencies, 967 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,520 because we saw it as such and elevated 968 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,200 our focus that school 969 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,120 and the system we're looking at, 970 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:22,680 but also not just the social 971 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,080 emotional effects of the limits, 972 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,440 but the educators themselves 973 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,960 and ensuring that they're supportive 974 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,280 and are able to kind of show up 975 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,880 their best selves in order 976 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,120 to support the learning of their students 977 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,480 or really kind of 978 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,080 exposing the inequities 979 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,280 that were already there 980 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,320 and that were hidden for some people. 981 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,440 But yeah, exactly said that. 982 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,480 Right. And for some people. 983 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,080 Because they didn't see it, correct? 984 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,200 Exactly. 985 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,360 So it really exposed the system. 986 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,880 And I think the hope is that 987 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,960 the field is looking for 988 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,840 kind of a new system. 989 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,080 And luckily, there have been folks 990 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,200 that have been working in that field 991 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,040 for a while that can point to it. 992 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,000 And so folks aren't 993 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,760 just starting from scratch 994 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,200 now that we're slowly 995 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,800 moving out of the pandemic. 996 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,840 Yeah, I think, you know, Rebecca, 997 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,960 as we look at this year, 998 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,840 some some see this as a loss year 999 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,480 for a lot of students right in there. 1000 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,240 And, you know, personally, 1001 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,880 my home with son is even even 1002 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,000 with resources, difficult 1003 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,760 depending on who you are. 1004 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,440 Like remote is challenging for some kids. 1005 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,760 Some kids remote is just bad for it. 1006 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,040 I mean, you can have the best engagement 1007 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,280 you can, but some kids just absolutely 1008 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,440 remote is just not it. 1009 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,960 You know, but that being said, 1010 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,680 if you don't have resources 1011 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,080 and you are already 1012 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,680 challenged, as as Ryan said, 1013 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,440 you saw a lot you saw a really dramatic 1014 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,480 kind of setback for a lot of people. 1015 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,080 What do you see as our opportunity here 1016 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,200 like that going forward? 1017 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,440 Like what? What, what, what, what, what 1018 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,280 gives you hope that we're going 1019 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,840 to get better from this moment 1020 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,600 and actually grow? 1021 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,080 Because we know of the drastic 1022 00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,880 kind of things that happen. 1023 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:00,600 I'm sure that I'm sure 1024 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,440 you've seen the numbers. 1025 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,960 And there was this was 1026 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,480 this was a 1027 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:04,800 this was a really challenging year 1028 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,320 for learning for everyone. 1029 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,400 Like what what can we take away? 1030 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,720 Like if there's something specifically 1031 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,240 you can point to that 1032 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,120 some of the work that you guys is doing 1033 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:13,880 could help folks. 1034 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,760 I would love to hear 1035 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,920 about what you see 1036 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,440 as a kind of a hopeful course 1037 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,920 going forward from this moment 1038 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,200 with the pandemic. 1039 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,040 So I see a lot to hope for 1040 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,360 and a lot of what Ryan 1041 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,800 was just saying it. 1042 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,720 So we've been at this work again 1043 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,640 for close to a decade, 1044 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,560 and this was a pretty massive reset. 1045 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,920 And yeah, 1046 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,280 that's another story. 1047 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,640 You know, there's a little bit 1048 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,840 you know, there's that little piece of me 1049 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,360 that's kind of like told you so. 1050 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,080 So like if we had been paying attention 1051 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,240 to individual learner 1052 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,320 needs to social, emotional, 1053 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,480 to relationships, to the whole 1054 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,600 there's the horrible lack of equity 1055 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,720 in our schools, things that Ryan and I 1056 00:29:58,720 --> 00:29:59,640 and our organizations 1057 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,640 have been talking about, 1058 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,440 screaming about, 1059 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,840 writing about, researching 1060 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,520 about for years. 1061 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:05,640 We would have been in 1062 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,760 a very different place in this pandemic. 1063 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,960 And so I while the numbers are staggering 1064 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,720 and horrifying right now, 1065 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,720 there's 1066 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,120 the hope and the optimism I have 1067 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,760 is that there are fewer people 1068 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,760 who think it's OK to go back to normal. 1069 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,520 There's a lot more 1070 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,960 talking about a new normal 1071 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,960 or how are we going to reinvent or 1072 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,200 what have we learned 1073 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,400 from this pandemic moment 1074 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,720 that we want to keep? 1075 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,480 Because things like paying attention 1076 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,120 to social, emotional, paying attention 1077 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,040 to relationships, 1078 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,720 I mean, there there has been no bigger 1079 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,600 kind of proof point 1080 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,640 at this point 1081 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,400 that would have been possible 1082 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,040 given the massive disruption 1083 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,880 of so many students lives, parents lives. 1084 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,280 And for so long we've been saying 1085 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,560 look at how different every learner is. 1086 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,880 And we all have now or many case studies. 1087 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,400 I mean, you have children who are home. 1088 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,800 I had to siblings 1089 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,520 my two children who are siblings, 1090 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,920 same parents, same household 1091 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,880 like super different experience of remote 1092 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:14,960 learning and pandemic 1093 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,320 and what each one of them needed 1094 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,120 and how they each 1095 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,600 found ways to socialize. 1096 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,680 And we were extremely fortunate 1097 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,600 that they were able 1098 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,280 to adapt to remote setting. 1099 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,720 But then kids, two houses down 1100 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,840 in a similar school system 1101 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,840 could not adapt to the remote setting. 1102 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,560 So 1103 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,080 while it means we have a 1104 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,880 just unbelievable 1105 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,920 set of needs of students 1106 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,160 and trauma and academics to figure out, 1107 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,040 I don't think anybody can argue anymore 1108 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,600 that there's this 1109 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,160 oh, if we just all give everybody 1110 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,080 the same thing, it'll be OK. 1111 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:54,800 Yeah. 1112 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,120 And with that and no one's going to argue 1113 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:57,920 about how valuable 1114 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,000 I don't think at least 1115 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,080 at least anytime soon, 1116 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,200 about how valuable teachers are. 1117 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,080 And you have to 1118 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,120 you had to go to be a 1119 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,040 teacher for yourself. 1120 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,880 Oh, my God. Like this is work. 1121 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,560 And as Ryan said, I mean, 1122 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,680 if you had a relationship with a school 1123 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,560 and with a teacher, 1124 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,240 you tended to do better. 1125 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,800 You tended to stay connected. 1126 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,280 So why wouldn't we pay attention 1127 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,080 to things like relationships? 1128 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,400 Why wouldn't we privilege 1129 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,040 those as much as academics 1130 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,040 because they are so tightly connected? 1131 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,200 And one one more thing 1132 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,200 that gave me a little 1133 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,200 bit of hope, and we don't 1134 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,800 we don't have enough numbers about this, 1135 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400 but talking to friends in the field whose 1136 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,800 school networks served 1137 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,800 some of our most marginalized students 1138 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,960 and just, you know, some of the anecdotes 1139 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,880 we were able to pull out of 1140 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,160 the field is for some youth 1141 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,360 who going to school was already 1142 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,560 a traumatic experience, 1143 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,800 who are already facing bias 1144 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,880 and cultural negativity every day. 1145 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,800 For some of those students, 1146 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,760 being able to disengage for that 1147 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,240 gave them the time 1148 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,520 that they'd never had 1149 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,240 to actually celebrate their own 1150 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,920 learning and learning in their own way 1151 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:06,480 because some student 1152 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,880 it was better for for some it was better. 1153 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,520 And we have a not there again. 1154 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,920 I'm I'm eager for those right now. 1155 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,520 I know, again, it does not negate 1156 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,440 the many, many, many losses, 1157 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,040 the trauma of the time, 1158 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,440 the losses of relationships. 1159 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,880 But I think it just points 1160 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,880 to the fact that one size 1161 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,280 is never going to see exactly 1162 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,720 if it's the opportunity for 1163 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,880 there should be some 1164 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,040 remote learning opportunities for 1165 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:35,600 for some students in some ways, 1166 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,400 because if it works, do that time, 1167 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,640 they are improving 1168 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:41,840 their remote offerings. 1169 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,840 We are seeing states 1170 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:43,480 that are looking 1171 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,160 at a more competency based framework 1172 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,160 so that you're not 1173 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,160 not all about learning loss. 1174 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,720 I'm trying very hard to avoid that term, 1175 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,400 because what you know 1176 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,840 against who benchmarked 1177 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,800 against what I mean, 1178 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,720 we need to really understand. 1179 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,640 That's a fair point. 1180 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,720 What did you learn 1181 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,080 and how do we help you get back on track? 1182 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:03,960 And so exactly something 1183 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,160 that a competency based system 1184 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,000 can do a lot more than 1185 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,120 one standardized test. 1186 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,880 And either you met it or you didn't. 1187 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,800 I mean, let's find out 1188 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,680 until they get standardized tests. 1189 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,840 You're preaching to the converted here. 1190 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,560 I was horrible at standardized tests. 1191 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,880 Ironically, I got to law school Right. 1192 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:20,160 Right. 1193 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Once I got to law school, 1194 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,080 eventually I actually 1195 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,080 I failed the bar the first time. 1196 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,520 The second time I got one of the highest 1197 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,240 scores in the state. 1198 00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:27,080 I figured out the hack in my. 1199 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,560 Brain to figure out 1200 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,760 how to do standardized test, 1201 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,640 but that that's better law. 1202 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,680 I did, but I didn't make exactally 1203 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,160 I didn't learn better. 1204 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,240 I figured out how to take a test better. 1205 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,960 And that's not learning. 1206 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,080 We have to 1207 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,360 we have to really get around like I can 1208 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,440 I can have a whole podcast 1209 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,160 about standardized tests. 1210 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,760 And we're seeing some openings 1211 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,320 for that conversation, too. 1212 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,720 So that's another place that I'm feeling 1213 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:49,240 hopeful coming out of the pandemic 1214 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:51,040 is some realization that 1215 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,320 maybe those tests. 1216 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,520 And we absolutely 1217 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,360 we need to know benchmarking. 1218 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,600 We need to know. 1219 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:57,240 Oh, yeah. 1220 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:58,320 Well, there's multiple ways to do 1221 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,520 kind of standardized way. 1222 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,080 But let's open up 1223 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,400 that definition a little bit more 1224 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,280 to really think about. 1225 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,800 How do you measure learning? 1226 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,200 Oh, absolutely. And you know what? 1227 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,160 When you talk about learning loss 1228 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,320 and I want to move on to something else, 1229 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:09,880 I think that I think 1230 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,720 my biggest concern is 1231 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:12,320 for kids 1232 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,600 that were just starting high school 1233 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,800 and they had a really bad year 1234 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,240 in terms of their grades. 1235 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,280 How is that going to be 1236 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,520 viewed from colleges? 1237 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,920 And to me, colleges and universities 1238 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,360 need to probably get some grace 1239 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,920 for this year for that 1240 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,200 for twenty twenty, twenty one. 1241 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,040 And just say this was just a unique time. 1242 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,680 And so I'm hoping that 1243 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,000 that's that's going to be 1244 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,080 part of the consideration. 1245 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,160 And that's really what I 1246 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,520 that's that's my biggest concern, 1247 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,240 because the other stuff, 1248 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:39,160 if you're not in high school, 1249 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,440 it's probably you can 1250 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,640 probably you'll be OK 1251 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,320 is not being counted against you. 1252 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,320 But when you did poorly in this year, 1253 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,240 that counts against you 1254 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,040 in a cumulative way. 1255 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960 So that's kind of my only God. 1256 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,480 That's my only concern 1257 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,600 as one of my biggest concerns. 1258 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,480 And so how is that going to be viewed? 1259 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,880 I mean, the other concern I have is 1260 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,200 what about the emotional component? 1261 00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,520 Let's dive into that a little bit, 1262 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,080 because I'm interested 1263 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:01,920 to hear about that. 1264 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,280 You know, there was the 1265 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,640 emotional component of 1266 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,400 of not being able to be around. 1267 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,760 People were tribal by nature, 1268 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,640 so that that did something 1269 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,840 to do something to me. 1270 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,840 So I imagine it did something to kids. 1271 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,800 And then, 1272 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:18,320 you know, 1273 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,720 if you're black in this country, 1274 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,640 you or brown and you 1275 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,360 and you saw what was happening, 1276 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,360 this is not new to you. 1277 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,600 It's been happening all the time, 1278 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,640 but in a way that was just 1279 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,480 more transparent 1280 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,280 and just kind of 1281 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,960 because even when you have things 1282 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:33,760 that are happening in 1283 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,600 an unjust way on a regular basis, 1284 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,600 people like to escape from it, 1285 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,640 not to think about it all the time, 1286 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,680 because then that becomes 1287 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,800 your only reality. 1288 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,240 But when things happened 1289 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:43,440 with George Floyd, Amed Aubrey, 1290 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,840 Brianna Taylor, so on and so forth, 1291 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,280 I can go through a lot of names. And 1292 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,000 I mean, it was really 1293 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,040 traumatic, traumatic for me. 1294 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,480 And I imagine it's traumatic for our kids 1295 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,560 in our schools that are 1296 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,200 going through this. 1297 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,760 So how did you 1298 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,000 what did you learn from this moment 1299 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,560 and how did you talk to your 1300 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:03,400 you know, for Ryan, 1301 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:04,040 for your point of view? 1302 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,480 How did you talk to the chief of staff? 1303 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,880 And then from you know, Rebecca, 1304 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,560 how did you figure out how to put that 1305 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,920 into a policy perspective 1306 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,520 in dealing with this emotional trauma, 1307 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,320 just dealing with 1308 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,040 this emotional trauma in general, 1309 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,120 and how that was 1310 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,680 something you could learn 1311 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,960 from or expand from, 1312 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,800 given what just happened? 1313 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,880 Yeah, I mean, I think, 1314 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,880 you know, work really put an emphasis on, 1315 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,200 you know, identifying 1316 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,680 and talking about that. 1317 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,200 Our system needs to talk about 1318 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,960 kind of what is what is 1319 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,040 and identify both the macro 1320 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,080 trauma that occurs, 1321 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,440 but then also the micro trauma 1322 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,000 for individual students. 1323 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:43,960 And so I think throughout 1324 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,760 that kind of this project 1325 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,120 we worked on and throughout 1326 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,000 is really putting 1327 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,800 an emphasis on the importance 1328 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,200 of that social emotional relationship 1329 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,520 that educators have with their students 1330 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,640 and making sure that they understand 1331 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:56,760 kind of who they are 1332 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,800 as individuals, 1333 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,160 how can they bring their community 1334 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,800 into the classroom 1335 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,840 and kind of making sure 1336 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,720 that they're building an environment 1337 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,360 that a student is does 1338 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,760 feel safe and feel seen, 1339 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,400 because we know from the science 1340 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,320 of learning and development 1341 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,920 that in order for a student 1342 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:12,960 to be able to learn best, 1343 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,120 they need to feel safe and secure 1344 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,320 and have adults around them 1345 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,680 that believe and support them. 1346 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,200 So, you know, with our work, 1347 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:20,760 we're just trying 1348 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,280 to emphasize the importance 1349 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,760 of the kind of well-being 1350 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,160 for students and putting out 1351 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,600 resources that will allow states to work 1352 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:29,640 with districts in the school 1353 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,680 to think about how to create 1354 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,520 environments where 1355 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,120 there is more well-being 1356 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,320 for their students and their educators, 1357 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,040 and to ensure that as we move 1358 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,840 through this moment 1359 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,040 to understand the trauma 1360 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,920 that we've all collectively felt 1361 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,320 and then some far greater than others, 1362 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,560 to really understand 1363 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:47,760 how to create an environment 1364 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,040 that well, as we continue 1365 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,400 to move back into the classrooms 1366 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,800 or think about 1367 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,200 learning in different ways, 1368 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,320 that puts an emphasis 1369 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,720 on the child and educator as well being. 1370 00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,720 I think we've seen obviously 1371 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:00,640 it's a lot more focused 1372 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,520 on academic and academic success 1373 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,400 except but we've seen 1374 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,360 that we're starting already, 1375 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,600 but I think really accelerated 1376 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:08,560 during the pandemic, 1377 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,440 a real emphasis on kind of the students 1378 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,880 well-being and ensuring 1379 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,760 you have a system 1380 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,440 in a school that supports 1381 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,000 kind of the whole child 1382 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,360 and ensures that they're able 1383 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,000 to thrive to their best ability 1384 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,440 in an environment 1385 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,880 that is supportive of them 1386 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,080 and their individual 1387 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,080 needs, their strengths, 1388 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,200 and kind of kind of what makes them them. 1389 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,120 Yeah. Rebecca. 1390 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,320 So I think what Ryan 1391 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,560 said was just spot on, and I think for us 1392 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,360 and in some ways in particular 1393 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,000 with this project, it. 1394 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:44,840 It 1395 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,000 enabled us to. 1396 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,120 To 1397 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,160 be more 1398 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,080 clear and transparent 1399 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,440 than we had in the past. Yeah. 1400 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,640 Look at what you're saying 1401 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,800 is no different from what 1402 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,600 I experienced either, 1403 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,320 and I'll say it more and more, frankly. 1404 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:03,800 Right. 1405 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,880 When talking to white Americans, 1406 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:06,640 it was easier to have 1407 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,640 a conversation about race. Exactly. 1408 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,600 And from the understand 1409 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,680 that this is not something 1410 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,360 that I was overexaggerating, making up, 1411 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,360 because people it's hard to deny it . 1412 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,240 Right. So no matter where you came from. 1413 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,040 So it became impossible. 1414 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,400 So the conversations 1415 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,840 I've never had more conversations 1416 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,640 with my white counterparts about race. 1417 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,760 And I'm hoping that there is a moment 1418 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:30,720 where we actually like 1419 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:32,480 we we expand and have real impact 1420 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,680 to where we are. 1421 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,680 I'm happy to see people 1422 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:36,960 with their diversity statements. 1423 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,080 I'm happy to see people say 1424 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,320 black lives matter, kind of. 1425 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,280 But at the end of day life, 1426 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,160 what really matters to me 1427 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,160 more is what policy changes 1428 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,480 are you going to do? 1429 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,720 What practices are you going to change? 1430 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:48,720 How are you going to make sure 1431 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,680 we have more equitable results 1432 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,440 across the board 1433 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,640 that I care about, 1434 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,640 that more words do matter. 1435 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:55,280 So I'm not going to say 1436 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,280 they don't matter. 1437 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,840 But what what really matters 1438 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,120 is substance to back up 1439 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,480 what you say as well. 1440 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,080 And from organizational standpoint, 1441 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,600 what it I mean, naming it again, 1442 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:06,760 we earlier were talking 1443 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,680 about definitions, not just kind of set. 1444 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,040 I mean, equity at 1445 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,400 this point has almost become 1446 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,520 almost a fluff term. I mean, I would. 1447 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,160 But but really naming. 1448 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,640 What do you mean and for whom and where? 1449 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,680 And then in and of my sphere 1450 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,120 here, it's then. 1451 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,080 Well, then 1452 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,800 how do you measure the impact of it? 1453 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,040 How do you surface it 1454 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,800 in a way that we can show 1455 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:30,720 what is happening 1456 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:31,840 to black and brown bodies 1457 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,240 so that we can show if we are thinking 1458 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:36,800 about student centered learning, 1459 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,000 we can show that, in fact, 1460 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,640 it is helping to close 1461 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,800 gaps and open opportunities 1462 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,320 rather than exacerbate them. Yeah. 1463 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,800 So for for, you know, from 1464 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,800 a very sort of organizational operational 1465 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,800 standpoint, it has given us 1466 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,920 more clarity and more 1467 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,680 necessity of naming it 1468 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,760 and being clear about 1469 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,880 what are we going to do about it. 1470 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,960 And so, you know, 1471 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,120 and then I also think it's sort of a very 1472 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,240 personal level. 1473 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,000 You know, I I'm a white person. 1474 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,480 I did not experience it personally, but 1475 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,560 had children who are of an age 1476 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,240 to understand the news. 1477 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:24,960 And so there were daily conversations. 1478 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,600 There were. 1479 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,400 How are their schools handling it? 1480 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,640 So and again, this was something 1481 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,000 that, you know, in in 1482 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,840 twelve years of having one child 1483 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,520 and nine of it like 1484 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,840 it was it has never been this explicit, 1485 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,280 which I take as a really positive sign, 1486 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,840 because if you can't talk about it 1487 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,080 and you can't name it and you can't 1488 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:49,280 measure it, then you're never 1489 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,040 going to be able to change. 1490 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,080 Absolutely. Absolutely not. 1491 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:52,280 Yeah. 1492 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,240 When you avoid a problem, 1493 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,800 the problem grows. 1494 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,160 If you try to avoid dealing 1495 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:57,960 with your suffering, 1496 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,280 your suffering increases. You don't. 1497 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,440 You got it. You got to deal with it. 1498 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,880 And this has been 1499 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,080 the single biggest challenge 1500 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:03,920 with dealing with race 1501 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,880 and equity in this country 1502 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,280 is that the way to address 1503 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,080 it is to not deal with it 1504 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,160 or pretend as if it doesn't exist, 1505 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,200 which always makes the problem worse. 1506 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:13,920 You got you got to 1507 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,760 you got to really have an 1508 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,160 acknowledgment of the issue 1509 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,240 before you can address it. 1510 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:22,280 And I think that's been a major problem 1511 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:23,280 for us 1512 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,480 collectively as Americans 1513 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,600 has been our one of our greatest, 1514 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,600 if not the greatest kind of our block. 1515 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:29,400 We've just had that 1516 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:30,560 kind of it's been like 1517 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,400 our emotional block 1518 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:33,960 that we just don't want to deal with. 1519 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,960 But but the pandemic, 1520 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,880 you know, made people deal 1521 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:38,560 with a lot of things 1522 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,160 that they previously had ignored. 1523 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,960 And so I do think there is hope 1524 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,120 in this opportunity 1525 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,640 that people can see this moment 1526 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,600 and want to make sure 1527 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,680 that we are better for it 1528 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:47,640 and not and not repeat 1529 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,040 some of the same inequities 1530 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:50,760 and systems 1531 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,280 that have failed us in the past. 1532 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:54,080 Final question 1533 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,160 as we kind of wrap up here, 1534 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,440 what does what you have 1535 00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:59,680 your vision of success? 1536 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,280 However, we can bring this out 1537 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,000 10, 15 years from now. 1538 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,280 What does success look like? 1539 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,120 Every educator in 1540 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,080 every system in the country 1541 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,720 is using the educator competencies 1542 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,480 for personalized learning center. 1543 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:14,840 I mean, I think, 1544 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:15,360 you know, 1545 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,640 I hate to be Pollyanna ish, 1546 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:17,600 but if we were doing 1547 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,480 what is in those competencies, 1548 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:20,280 we would have a very, 1549 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,160 very different system 1550 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,320 of education with very 1551 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,240 different outcomes. 1552 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,840 In particular, to marginalize students 1553 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,000 and just, you know that and ensure 1554 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:32,800 that every student 1555 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,600 just have a positive 1556 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,240 experience at school that enables them 1557 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,520 to develop themselves 1558 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,720 to their fullest individual. 1559 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,800 And I think if educators and our system 1560 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,560 move towards this more 1561 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,600 personalized system 1562 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640 that emphasizes individuals 1563 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:49,840 with their strengths, 1564 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,640 what they need to work on their 1565 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,120 their backgrounds, their communities, 1566 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,960 more students will have 1567 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,760 positive experiences 1568 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,240 in schools that will enable them 1569 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:00,280 to be successful 1570 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,560 as they move on into their adulthood 1571 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,560 when each kid to love learning. 1572 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:06,320 Yeah. 1573 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,760 Ryan MacDonald, Rebecca Wolfe, 1574 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,440 it's been a pleasure having you on. 1575 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:12,680 Love to have you guys on again. 1576 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,360 Appreciate you coming on disruption. 1577 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,880 Thank you, Rob. Thank you.