{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":5.52,"endTime":8.52,"body":"Hello, welcome"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":5.52,"endTime":8.52,"body":"to the June 2023 episode of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":8.52,"endTime":12.36,"body":"Chattering with ISFM. I'm"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":8.52,"endTime":12.36,"body":"Nathalie Dowgray, Head of  ISFM"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":12.39,"endTime":15.9,"body":"and host of this month's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":12.39,"endTime":15.9,"body":"podcast. This month Yaiza"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":15.96,"endTime":20.97,"body":"Gomez-Mejias is interviewing the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":15.96,"endTime":20.97,"body":"2022 winner of the JFMS resident"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":20.97,"endTime":24.75,"body":"best paper award, Dr. Marieke"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":20.97,"endTime":24.75,"body":"Knies, and they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":24.75,"endTime":27.93,"body":"talking about monitoring"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":24.75,"endTime":27.93,"body":"diabetes with Free Style Libres."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.74,"body":"We're also featuring our monthly"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":28.8,"endTime":31.74,"body":"JFMS clinical spotlight"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":31.74,"endTime":34.47,"body":"interview. This month, I'm"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":31.74,"endTime":34.47,"body":"speaking with some of my"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":34.5,"endTime":38.28,"body":"iCatCare colleagues, Sarah"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":34.5,"endTime":38.28,"body":"Ellis, Vicky Halls and our"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":38.28,"endTime":41.85,"body":"former CEO, Claire Bessant,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":38.28,"endTime":41.85,"body":"about cat friendly principles"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":41.85,"endTime":45.51,"body":"for veterinary professionals. As"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":41.85,"endTime":45.51,"body":"this is a topic very, very close"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":45.51,"endTime":48.24,"body":"to our hearts, we've made the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":45.51,"endTime":48.24,"body":"full version available to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":48.24,"endTime":52.08,"body":"everyone on our podcast channel."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":48.24,"endTime":52.08,"body":"We hope you enjoy this episode."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":58.59,"endTime":61.71,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":58.59,"endTime":61.71,"body":"much for being here today. We"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":61.71,"endTime":63.78,"body":"really appreciate your time."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":61.71,"endTime":63.78,"body":"Could you tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":63.78,"endTime":67.38,"body":"about why is it that you wanted"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":63.78,"endTime":67.38,"body":"to perform the study that you"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":67.41,"endTime":68.7,"body":"won the award for?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":68.76,"endTime":70.23,"body":"In feline"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":68.76,"endTime":70.23,"body":"medicine, I really like"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":70.23,"endTime":73.86,"body":"endocrinology, and especially"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":70.23,"endTime":73.86,"body":"like the chronic patients like"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":73.86,"endTime":77.88,"body":"the diabetes mellitus. And I was"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":73.86,"endTime":77.88,"body":"always struggling to get proper"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":77.88,"endTime":80.85,"body":"readings. And then so I thought"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":77.88,"endTime":80.85,"body":"this would be really cool to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":80.85,"endTime":83.43,"body":"write something down about it,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":80.85,"endTime":83.43,"body":"because then we can actually"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":83.46,"endTime":86.07,"body":"maybe use it on a bigger scale,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":83.46,"endTime":86.07,"body":"and people get more information"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":86.07,"endTime":88.98,"body":"on it. And what I did is, I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":86.07,"endTime":88.98,"body":"placed a Free Style Libre. And I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":88.98,"endTime":93.3,"body":"recorded a lot of things like"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":88.98,"endTime":93.3,"body":"how are the cats reacting? How"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":93.3,"endTime":97.47,"body":"long does it work? How long does"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":93.3,"endTime":97.47,"body":"it stay on? Is it even reliable?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":97.5,"endTime":99.66,"body":"Do we get numbers that mean"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":97.5,"endTime":99.66,"body":"anything? Or is it just"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":99.66,"endTime":104.76,"body":"completely, like a random number"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":99.66,"endTime":104.76,"body":"generator? And also, how do the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":104.82,"endTime":109.44,"body":"owners like the use of it? Is it"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":104.82,"endTime":109.44,"body":"something that I would recommend"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":109.44,"endTime":112.68,"body":"to other owners for diabetic"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":109.44,"endTime":112.68,"body":"cats? So I thought, I have to do"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":112.68,"endTime":115.53,"body":"something that is super"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":112.68,"endTime":115.53,"body":"practical, and that other"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":115.53,"endTime":118.38,"body":"practitioners and owners can"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":115.53,"endTime":118.38,"body":"read and think oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":118.44,"endTime":120.06,"body":"usefulfor me and my practice."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":120.24,"endTime":122.88,"body":"It was a"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":120.24,"endTime":122.88,"body":"brilliant idea. And what are the"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":122.88,"endTime":126.03,"body":"advantages of continuous blood"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":122.88,"endTime":126.03,"body":"glucose monitoring devices"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":126.03,"endTime":129.12,"body":"compared to in clinic, glucose"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":126.03,"endTime":129.12,"body":"curves or even at home the blood"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":129.12,"endTime":129.93,"body":"glucose curves?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":130.35,"endTime":133.44,"body":"Especially in"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":130.35,"endTime":133.44,"body":"clinic, you never get a proper"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":133.59,"endTime":136.71,"body":"reading. Because even if you're"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":133.59,"endTime":136.71,"body":"super cat friendly, the cat will"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":136.71,"endTime":140.58,"body":"be stressed out, it won't do its"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":136.71,"endTime":140.58,"body":"normal routine. So you're"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":140.58,"endTime":144.21,"body":"sticking it in a cage, it might"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":140.58,"endTime":144.21,"body":"not eat as much as it's eating"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":144.21,"endTime":147.09,"body":"at home because it's scared or"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":144.21,"endTime":147.09,"body":"it might eat more. It's not able"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":147.09,"endTime":150.27,"body":"to move around, you have to get"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":147.09,"endTime":150.27,"body":"it out of the cage and get a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":150.27,"endTime":155.34,"body":"reading so it's not so reliable."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":150.27,"endTime":155.34,"body":"It's similar at home, it's, of"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":155.34,"endTime":158.04,"body":"course, probably more reliable"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":155.34,"endTime":158.04,"body":"than in the clinic. But still,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":158.04,"endTime":161.49,"body":"it's quite a burden for both the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":158.04,"endTime":161.49,"body":"owner and the cat and it might"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":161.49,"endTime":165.36,"body":"be a big thing for them. And I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":161.49,"endTime":165.36,"body":"think that's what I got back a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":165.36,"endTime":168.69,"body":"lot from owners, is that they"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":165.36,"endTime":168.69,"body":"say, 'Oh, this really reduces my"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":168.69,"endTime":172.86,"body":"stress, this is so much less"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":168.69,"endTime":172.86,"body":"invasive for me. Instead of"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":172.89,"endTime":176.22,"body":"basically poking my cat with a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":172.89,"endTime":176.22,"body":"needle every few hours, for 12"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":176.22,"endTime":179.1,"body":"hours.' It makes it just so much"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":176.22,"endTime":179.1,"body":"more easy for owners."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":179.22,"endTime":181.32,"body":"Are there"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":179.22,"endTime":181.32,"body":"any complications associated"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":181.32,"endTime":185.46,"body":"with its use? Have you got any"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":181.32,"endTime":185.46,"body":"tips, any advice on how to avoid"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":185.46,"endTime":185.82,"body":"them?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":186.0,"endTime":187.44,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":186.0,"endTime":187.44,"body":"biggest complication is they"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":187.44,"endTime":191.52,"body":"stop working, which is annoying."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":187.44,"endTime":191.52,"body":"And I think communication is"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":191.55,"endTime":194.91,"body":"really important. If you inform"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":191.55,"endTime":194.91,"body":"an owner look, even if it works"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":194.91,"endTime":197.61,"body":"for two days, I'm super happy"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":194.91,"endTime":197.61,"body":"because then at least, already,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":197.61,"endTime":202.08,"body":"I got 48 hours of information."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":197.61,"endTime":202.08,"body":"And everything extra we got is"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":202.08,"endTime":205.59,"body":"just a bonus. I think that"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":202.08,"endTime":205.59,"body":"really helps. In our study, I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":205.59,"endTime":209.91,"body":"think it was about 25% of cats"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":205.59,"endTime":209.91,"body":"that it actually worked for the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":209.91,"endTime":213.57,"body":"full 14 days and the median time"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":209.91,"endTime":213.57,"body":"was 10 days, so it's still"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":213.57,"endTime":217.56,"body":"pretty good. I use glue to make"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":213.57,"endTime":217.56,"body":"sure it sticks on a bit better,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":217.65,"endTime":220.92,"body":"surgical glue, and that really"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":217.65,"endTime":220.92,"body":"works well. At the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":220.92,"endTime":223.74,"body":"the study, like half of the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":220.92,"endTime":223.74,"body":"cats, I'll do them dorsal neck"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":223.74,"endTime":227.04,"body":"and the other half of the cats,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":223.74,"endTime":227.04,"body":"I'll do the thoracic wall. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":227.04,"endTime":229.44,"body":"halfway through the study I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":227.04,"endTime":229.44,"body":"basically gave up on the dorsal"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":229.44,"endTime":232.8,"body":"neck because I find it easy to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":229.44,"endTime":232.8,"body":"have a flat surface to put the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":232.8,"endTime":236.43,"body":"freestyle on and the dorsal neck"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":232.8,"endTime":236.43,"body":"is not flat. Now I'm just doing"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":236.49,"endTime":239.94,"body":"the lateral thoracic wall and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":236.49,"endTime":239.94,"body":"that for me works pretty well."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":240.57,"endTime":242.88,"body":"And actually what I didn't put"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":240.57,"endTime":242.88,"body":"in this study because I was"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":242.88,"endTime":246.39,"body":"already way over the word count."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":242.88,"endTime":246.39,"body":"I also looked at if it makes a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":246.39,"endTime":249.18,"body":"difference if you cover it up or"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":246.39,"endTime":249.18,"body":"not. I talked to the owners and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":249.18,"endTime":251.64,"body":"I asked, look do you think your"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":249.18,"endTime":251.64,"body":"cat is going to try to get this"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":251.64,"endTime":255.48,"body":"thing off? So I think in about"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":251.64,"endTime":255.48,"body":"two thirds of the cats I did not"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":255.48,"endTime":258.0,"body":"have it covered with anything,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":255.48,"endTime":258.0,"body":"and in one third, I added with a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":258.39,"endTime":260.94,"body":"medical pet shirt. It didn't"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":258.39,"endTime":260.94,"body":"make a difference in whether you"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":260.94,"endTime":264.39,"body":"have it covered or not. You have"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":260.94,"endTime":264.39,"body":"to be a bit lucky that your cat"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":264.42,"endTime":268.62,"body":"will allow for this Free Style"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":264.42,"endTime":268.62,"body":"Libre to be placed on top of the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":268.62,"endTime":268.98,"body":"cat."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":269.16,"endTime":271.41,"body":"After"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":269.16,"endTime":271.41,"body":"working on this study, can you"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":271.56,"endTime":275.94,"body":"predict or identify certain"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":271.56,"endTime":275.94,"body":"traits in the cat that will help"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":275.94,"endTime":278.64,"body":"you anticipate whether or not"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":275.94,"endTime":278.64,"body":"they are going to keep the free"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":278.64,"endTime":279.96,"body":"style on for longer?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":280.62,"endTime":282.87,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":280.62,"endTime":282.87,"body":"owners really know a lot."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":282.87,"endTime":285.39,"body":"They're like, 'Oh, I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":282.87,"endTime":285.39,"body":"you know, about this one.' If"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":285.39,"endTime":287.49,"body":"you see them in the cage"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":285.39,"endTime":287.49,"body":"immediately going to the free"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":287.49,"endTime":291.09,"body":"style, 'What's this on my"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":287.49,"endTime":291.09,"body":"thoracic wall?' then I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":291.12,"endTime":294.54,"body":"Oh, I'm not sure if this is"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":291.12,"endTime":294.54,"body":"gonna stay on. And actually I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":294.54,"endTime":296.85,"body":"had one cat, he came home and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":294.54,"endTime":296.85,"body":"his sister was like, 'what's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":296.88,"endTime":299.28,"body":"that on you? That's not going to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":296.88,"endTime":299.28,"body":"be there.' So she took it off"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":299.28,"endTime":301.98,"body":"within two hours. So that"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":299.28,"endTime":301.98,"body":"happens as well. And I think one"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":301.98,"endTime":305.28,"body":"of the other cats was stuck in"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":301.98,"endTime":305.28,"body":"something and then he ripped the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":305.28,"endTime":308.22,"body":"the freestyle off. So it's like,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":305.28,"endTime":308.22,"body":"really silly stuff like that can"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":308.22,"endTime":311.01,"body":"happen as well. If you look at"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":308.22,"endTime":311.01,"body":"other complications, I think"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":311.01,"endTime":315.45,"body":"some cats have a sensitive skin."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":311.01,"endTime":315.45,"body":"So in most cats, I really had"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":315.45,"endTime":319.68,"body":"no, or almost no, reaction on"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":315.45,"endTime":319.68,"body":"the glue or on the sticker. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":319.68,"endTime":323.16,"body":"I think it was only out of the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":319.68,"endTime":323.16,"body":"41 cats, three cats, that skin"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.48,"body":"was really red, and inflamed and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.48,"body":"a bit thickened as well. I think"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":327.48,"endTime":331.5,"body":"you'll find it hard to predict"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":327.48,"endTime":331.5,"body":"which cats are gonna have that."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":331.71,"endTime":333.93,"body":"And there was another study done"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":331.71,"endTime":333.93,"body":"in cats where they didn't use"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":333.93,"endTime":338.1,"body":"glue, but they use sutures. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":333.93,"endTime":338.1,"body":"it also had a comparable amount"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":338.1,"endTime":341.34,"body":"of reactions on the skin. So I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":338.1,"endTime":341.34,"body":"think it's probably the sticker"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":341.34,"endTime":343.02,"body":"itself and not as much the glue."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":343.05,"endTime":345.39,"body":"In your"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":343.05,"endTime":345.39,"body":"study, you compared the clinical"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":345.42,"endTime":349.35,"body":"accuracy of this free style with"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":345.42,"endTime":349.35,"body":"that of alpha track. You"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":349.35,"endTime":353.52,"body":"reported that free style over"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":349.35,"endTime":353.52,"body":"and underestimated the blood"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.82,"body":"glucose readings in some cases."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.82,"body":"Could you explain in easy terms"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":356.82,"endTime":360.39,"body":"why those under and over"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":356.82,"endTime":360.39,"body":"estimations are not clinically"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":360.42,"endTime":363.84,"body":"relevant? And if there are any"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":360.42,"endTime":363.84,"body":"specific situations in which you"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":363.84,"endTime":365.01,"body":"should keep them in mind?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":365.28,"endTime":367.65,"body":"In humans, they"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":365.28,"endTime":367.65,"body":"don't look at the specific"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":367.77,"endTime":371.1,"body":"values so much. Of course, it's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":367.77,"endTime":371.1,"body":"also important but they look at"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":371.31,"endTime":375.57,"body":"will this change my strategy for"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":371.31,"endTime":375.57,"body":"treatment of this patient? So"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":375.57,"endTime":379.29,"body":"will this change how I look at"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":375.57,"endTime":379.29,"body":"the patients if I have the value"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":379.29,"endTime":382.59,"body":"from one monitoring device"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":379.29,"endTime":382.59,"body":"compared to the other one. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":382.59,"endTime":386.28,"body":"if you still make the same"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":382.59,"endTime":386.28,"body":"advice, or you still do the same"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":386.28,"endTime":389.97,"body":"treatment, it doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":386.28,"endTime":389.97,"body":"matter clinically. And if they"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":389.97,"endTime":392.79,"body":"say look, if you have this much"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":389.97,"endTime":392.79,"body":"different it actually it will be"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":392.79,"endTime":394.83,"body":"dangerous to the patient,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":392.79,"endTime":394.83,"body":"because you will make a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":394.83,"endTime":399.42,"body":"different clinical decision"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":394.83,"endTime":399.42,"body":"based on one monitoring device"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":399.45,"endTime":401.64,"body":"compared to the other one."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":399.45,"endTime":401.64,"body":"That's of course clinically"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":401.64,"endTime":404.64,"body":"relevant. So if you say in one"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":401.64,"endTime":404.64,"body":"case, for example, I will"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":404.64,"endTime":407.55,"body":"increase the insulin dose and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":404.64,"endTime":407.55,"body":"then if you get another reading"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":407.76,"endTime":410.7,"body":"from your other device, say oh"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":407.76,"endTime":410.7,"body":"no, we have to actually either"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":410.7,"endTime":413.61,"body":"decrease the insulin dose or"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":410.7,"endTime":413.61,"body":"keep the insulin dose the same."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":414.0,"endTime":416.64,"body":"Of course, that's clinically"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":414.0,"endTime":416.64,"body":"relevant. And that's why I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":416.64,"endTime":420.54,"body":"looked at that. And then I think"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":416.64,"endTime":420.54,"body":"in about 95% of the cases, the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":420.57,"endTime":423.33,"body":"differences between the two"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":420.57,"endTime":423.33,"body":"machines were not clinically"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":423.33,"endTime":427.47,"body":"relevant. So it would not really"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":423.33,"endTime":427.47,"body":"influence your decision on your"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":427.47,"endTime":431.31,"body":"insulin. No. So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":427.47,"endTime":431.31,"body":"more important. But I always"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":431.31,"endTime":434.31,"body":"tell the owner, if you get a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":431.31,"endTime":434.31,"body":"really weird measurement, I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":434.31,"endTime":437.49,"body":"would always recommend checking"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":434.31,"endTime":437.49,"body":"it with alpha track."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":438.39,"endTime":440.64,"body":"Perhaps in a"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":438.39,"endTime":440.64,"body":"non clinic situation where you"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":440.64,"endTime":444.0,"body":"have an unstable diabetic cat,"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":440.64,"endTime":444.0,"body":"would you still consider using"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":444.0,"endTime":445.5,"body":"the free style in that"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":444.0,"endTime":445.5,"body":"situation?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":445.83,"endTime":448.65,"body":"Yeah, I do. For"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":445.83,"endTime":448.65,"body":"example, in our clinic, when we"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":448.65,"endTime":452.55,"body":"have a cat with DKA, we always"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":448.65,"endTime":452.55,"body":"take a free style on. Because"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":452.55,"endTime":456.33,"body":"otherwise, we have to really"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":452.55,"endTime":456.33,"body":"take so much blood samples from"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":456.33,"endTime":459.42,"body":"the ears or from the jugular"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":456.33,"endTime":459.42,"body":"vein. It's just not very nice."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":459.42,"endTime":461.88,"body":"So we always put a free style"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":459.42,"endTime":461.88,"body":"on. But then again, I still"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":461.88,"endTime":465.63,"body":"think if you get really weird"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":461.88,"endTime":465.63,"body":"measurements, we just recheck to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":465.63,"endTime":466.29,"body":"be sure."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":467.07,"endTime":469.89,"body":"And you said"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":467.07,"endTime":469.89,"body":"before that the owners"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":469.89,"endTime":473.55,"body":"impression of the free style"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":469.89,"endTime":473.55,"body":"libre was positive? Did you get"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":473.55,"endTime":475.35,"body":"any more feedback on them?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":475.95,"endTime":478.35,"body":"Yeah, they said"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":475.95,"endTime":478.35,"body":"it really gave me much more."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":478.47,"endTime":482.16,"body":"Also, it was easier to use. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":478.47,"endTime":482.16,"body":"also, it gave them a lot of"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":482.16,"endTime":485.88,"body":"insight. I think that's also a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":482.16,"endTime":485.88,"body":"possible drawback. Because once"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":485.88,"endTime":489.57,"body":"you put a free style on, and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":485.88,"endTime":489.57,"body":"some owners are really checking"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":489.57,"endTime":492.72,"body":"every five seconds, basically,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":489.57,"endTime":492.72,"body":"and then you get an email every"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":492.72,"endTime":495.6,"body":"day, like, oh, today, the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":492.72,"endTime":495.6,"body":"glucose was this and that. This"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":495.6,"endTime":499.98,"body":"can be quite full on, if they"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":495.6,"endTime":499.98,"body":"send you like emails every day."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":499.98,"endTime":503.04,"body":"And I think it's also not"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":499.98,"endTime":503.04,"body":"healthy for owners to just check"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":503.04,"endTime":506.49,"body":"it so much, they're so hung up"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":503.04,"endTime":506.49,"body":"on numbers, then. And I think"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":506.49,"endTime":508.83,"body":"it's also really important to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":506.49,"endTime":508.83,"body":"communicate with an owner. Look,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":508.86,"endTime":511.29,"body":"it's not, we're not treating a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":508.86,"endTime":511.29,"body":"number, we're treating the cat"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":511.29,"endTime":515.85,"body":"around number. So we also have"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":511.29,"endTime":515.85,"body":"to look at a clinical situation,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":515.85,"endTime":519.03,"body":"that's, for me, the most"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":515.85,"endTime":519.03,"body":"important. I think a drawback"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":519.03,"endTime":522.12,"body":"that owners gave back to me was"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":519.03,"endTime":522.12,"body":"the cost of the free style, it's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":522.12,"endTime":525.51,"body":"not cheap. And of course, then"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":522.12,"endTime":525.51,"body":"if it falls off after two days,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":525.51,"endTime":528.96,"body":"or it stops working, it's quite"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":525.51,"endTime":528.96,"body":"a big investment for them. And"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":528.96,"endTime":531.48,"body":"also, sometimes they were just"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":528.96,"endTime":531.48,"body":"annoyed that it didn't work for"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":531.48,"endTime":534.42,"body":"the full 14 days. But I think"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":531.48,"endTime":534.42,"body":"communication is key. If you've"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.39,"body":"really communicated, I know it's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.39,"body":"a big investment and just count"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":537.39,"endTime":539.7,"body":"on the fact that we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":537.39,"endTime":539.7,"body":"have it two days. And then if we"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":539.7,"endTime":541.05,"body":"have it more, it's great."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":541.77,"endTime":543.9,"body":"When do you"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":541.77,"endTime":543.9,"body":"consider the management of a"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":543.9,"endTime":546.0,"body":"diabetic cat has been"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":543.9,"endTime":546.0,"body":"successful?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":546.0,"endTime":548.61,"body":"I think for me,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":546.0,"endTime":548.61,"body":"it is successful if everybody's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":548.61,"endTime":551.82,"body":"happy. So the cat is happy but"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":548.61,"endTime":551.82,"body":"the owners happy as well. I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":551.82,"endTime":554.64,"body":"think we underestimate how hard"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":551.82,"endTime":554.64,"body":"it is for an owner because you"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":554.64,"endTime":558.06,"body":"have to stick a needle in it"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":554.64,"endTime":558.06,"body":"twice a day and worrying about"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":558.06,"endTime":562.29,"body":"hyperglycemia or DKA. And what"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":558.06,"endTime":562.29,"body":"can I do if I go on holiday? I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":562.29,"endTime":565.5,"body":"can't ask a neighbour to do"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":562.29,"endTime":565.5,"body":"this. And so I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":565.5,"endTime":568.95,"body":"important to not be too strict."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":565.5,"endTime":568.95,"body":"If you can get 12 hours that's"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":568.95,"endTime":572.88,"body":"great, but if it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":568.95,"endTime":572.88,"body":"13 hours or 14 hours, I can live"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":572.88,"endTime":576.24,"body":"with that and I try to help them"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":572.88,"endTime":576.24,"body":"like, there's a special cat"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":576.24,"endTime":580.11,"body":"sitters that will come out if"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":576.24,"endTime":580.11,"body":"you're on holiday that are"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":580.17,"endTime":583.32,"body":"really experienced with cats"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":580.17,"endTime":583.32,"body":"with diabetes, so you don't have"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":583.32,"endTime":586.38,"body":"to ask your neighbour. We should"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":583.32,"endTime":586.38,"body":"make it easier on the owner"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":586.38,"endTime":589.62,"body":"because if the owner gives up"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":586.38,"endTime":589.62,"body":"and can't do any more than"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":589.62,"endTime":592.41,"body":"euthanasia is really basically"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":589.62,"endTime":592.41,"body":"the only other option."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":593.28,"endTime":595.38,"body":"How much do"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":593.28,"endTime":595.38,"body":"you talk about remission?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":596.34,"endTime":600.12,"body":"I do talk about"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":596.34,"endTime":600.12,"body":"it as a bonus. So my goal is to"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":600.12,"endTime":602.79,"body":"have a happy life for the cat"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":600.12,"endTime":602.79,"body":"and a happy life for owner and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":602.79,"endTime":605.61,"body":"avoid complications, if we"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":602.79,"endTime":605.61,"body":"managed to get the cat into"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":605.61,"endTime":608.55,"body":"remission, I'm super happy, but"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":605.61,"endTime":608.55,"body":"just try to be in it for the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":608.55,"endTime":612.12,"body":"long haul. And if we are lucky,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":608.55,"endTime":612.12,"body":"then we can get your cat into"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":612.12,"endTime":615.9,"body":"remission. And, of course, I do"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":612.12,"endTime":615.9,"body":"try to get there by"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":616.38,"endTime":619.98,"body":"incorporating a weight loss"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":616.38,"endTime":619.98,"body":"programme if necessary, focusing"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":619.98,"endTime":623.1,"body":"on the food and going for the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":619.98,"endTime":623.1,"body":"long acting insulin. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":623.1,"endTime":626.31,"body":"trying to make all the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":623.1,"endTime":626.31,"body":"surrounding possibilities as"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":626.31,"endTime":628.98,"body":"good as we can. But it's not the"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":626.31,"endTime":628.98,"body":"main goal, because I don't want"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":628.98,"endTime":631.53,"body":"the owner to be disappointed and"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":628.98,"endTime":631.53,"body":"give up if we can't get to cat"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":631.53,"endTime":632.31,"body":"into remission."},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":632.82,"endTime":635.31,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":632.82,"endTime":635.31,"body":"sometimes the best is the enemy"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":635.31,"endTime":639.54,"body":"of the good. How do you think"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":635.31,"endTime":639.54,"body":"technology is going to change in"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":639.54,"endTime":641.52,"body":"this field? Do you think it's"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":639.54,"endTime":641.52,"body":"going to change a lot?"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":641.79,"endTime":644.13,"body":"The free style is"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":641.79,"endTime":644.13,"body":"getting smaller and lighter,"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":644.13,"endTime":647.79,"body":"which will be amazing. It would"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":644.13,"endTime":647.79,"body":"be even more amazing if we can"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":647.79,"endTime":651.69,"body":"get like a super tiny insulin"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":647.79,"endTime":651.69,"body":"pump that we can get on to a"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":651.69,"endTime":655.5,"body":"cat, that would be super cool."},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":651.69,"endTime":655.5,"body":"And I think, not so much in"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":655.56,"endTime":658.5,"body":"technology, but in medication, I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":655.56,"endTime":658.5,"body":"think there's exciting stuff on"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":658.5,"endTime":662.85,"body":"the horizon with maybe oral"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":658.5,"endTime":662.85,"body":"treatment for diabetics or like"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":662.88,"endTime":666.03,"body":"ultra long acting insulin. I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":662.88,"endTime":666.03,"body":"think that's really cool. I"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":666.03,"endTime":667.89,"body":"can't wait until that's coming"},{"speaker":"Marieke Knies","startTime":666.03,"endTime":667.89,"body":"out"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":667.92,"endTime":670.53,"body":"Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Yaiza Gomez-Mejias","startTime":667.92,"endTime":670.53,"body":"will be really exciting."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":670.74,"endTime":672.99,"body":"And now over"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":670.74,"endTime":672.99,"body":"to the iCatCare team to talk"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":672.99,"endTime":676.53,"body":"about cat friendly principles"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":672.99,"endTime":676.53,"body":"for veterinary professionals. So"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":676.53,"endTime":678.6,"body":"the first sort of thing I wanted"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":676.53,"endTime":678.6,"body":"to talk about, I was going to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":678.6,"endTime":681.27,"body":"direct towards Sarah and I was"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":678.6,"endTime":681.27,"body":"wondering if you could just talk"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":681.27,"endTime":684.12,"body":"a little bit about why we felt"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":681.27,"endTime":684.12,"body":"the need to create the cat"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":684.12,"endTime":685.35,"body":"friendly principles."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":685.71,"endTime":688.05,"body":"I think the term"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":685.71,"endTime":688.05,"body":"cat friendly is something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":688.05,"endTime":691.41,"body":"we've used within the charity"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":688.05,"endTime":691.41,"body":"for quite a long time. But what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":691.41,"endTime":694.77,"body":"does that term really mean? Cat"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":691.41,"endTime":694.77,"body":"friendly? We knew amongst"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":694.77,"endTime":698.25,"body":"ourselves, the cat experts"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":694.77,"endTime":698.25,"body":"within the organisation knew"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":698.25,"endTime":702.27,"body":"what that meant. It's our DNA."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":698.25,"endTime":702.27,"body":"It's, It's who we are. It's what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":702.27,"endTime":706.29,"body":"we do. But actually having the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":702.27,"endTime":706.29,"body":"opportunity to articulate that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":706.44,"endTime":708.36,"body":"means that we could share it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":706.44,"endTime":708.36,"body":"externally."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":708.45,"endTime":710.16,"body":"Claire, I"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":708.45,"endTime":710.16,"body":"think we were all quite"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":710.16,"endTime":712.86,"body":"surprised with how quickly we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":710.16,"endTime":712.86,"body":"were able to write the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":712.86,"endTime":715.95,"body":"principles, why do you think it"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":712.86,"endTime":715.95,"body":"was an easy project?"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":716.88,"endTime":718.95,"body":"Often when you"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":716.88,"endTime":718.95,"body":"say you work for a cat charity,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":718.95,"endTime":722.04,"body":"people think you are out there"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":718.95,"endTime":722.04,"body":"working with unowned cats, they"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":722.04,"endTime":725.58,"body":"don't really understand the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":722.04,"endTime":725.58,"body":"whole process of trying to"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":725.58,"endTime":729.36,"body":"understand and treat our cats"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":725.58,"endTime":729.36,"body":"better. So let's articulate that"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":729.39,"endTime":733.23,"body":"DNA as Sarah said. We work with"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":729.39,"endTime":733.23,"body":"vets. We work with breeders. We"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":733.23,"endTime":736.56,"body":"work with owners, boarding"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":733.23,"endTime":736.56,"body":"catteries, all sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":736.56,"endTime":739.5,"body":"like that on different aspects."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":736.56,"endTime":739.5,"body":"And that can be quite complex."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":739.5,"endTime":742.77,"body":"And there's always been a need"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":739.5,"endTime":742.77,"body":"to simplify. While we sat down"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":742.77,"endTime":749.04,"body":"to do it, it was remarkably easy"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":742.77,"endTime":749.04,"body":"to see what was important. It"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":749.04,"endTime":751.71,"body":"was almost a relief to put down."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":749.04,"endTime":751.71,"body":"I don't know what the rest of"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":751.71,"endTime":754.77,"body":"you thought, but it felt really"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":751.71,"endTime":754.77,"body":"good to get that down."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":755.64,"endTime":757.65,"body":"Definitely, I"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":755.64,"endTime":757.65,"body":"remember us thinking that we'd"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":757.65,"endTime":761.49,"body":"put aside some meeting time, the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":757.65,"endTime":761.49,"body":"amount of time that we put aside"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":761.49,"endTime":765.45,"body":"for it, really, we just didn't"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":761.49,"endTime":765.45,"body":"need did we? The essential ideas"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":765.45,"endTime":767.7,"body":"came very easily. And then we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":765.45,"endTime":767.7,"body":"spent a little bit of time"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":767.7,"endTime":771.54,"body":"simplifying and refining the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":767.7,"endTime":771.54,"body":"language. We use a graphic of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":771.54,"endTime":774.99,"body":"the feline lifestyle spectrum to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":771.54,"endTime":774.99,"body":"really illustrate our respect"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":774.99,"endTime":778.74,"body":"cats principle. And this graphic"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":774.99,"endTime":778.74,"body":"was the result of your work"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":778.74,"endTime":781.83,"body":"Vicky, and I was wondering if"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":778.74,"endTime":781.83,"body":"you could just talk us through"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":781.86,"endTime":785.19,"body":"what it illustrates, and why it"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":781.86,"endTime":785.19,"body":"was a really important concept"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":785.19,"endTime":787.47,"body":"for the veterinary profession to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":785.19,"endTime":787.47,"body":"understand?"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":788.01,"endTime":790.32,"body":"There was this real"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":788.01,"endTime":790.32,"body":"perception that the only happy"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":790.32,"endTime":793.83,"body":"cat is one that lives in a home"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":790.32,"endTime":793.83,"body":"with somebody to love them. And"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":793.83,"endTime":797.16,"body":"we realised that may work very"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":793.83,"endTime":797.16,"body":"well for those cats who are"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":797.49,"endTime":800.73,"body":"comfortable being pets. But it"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":797.49,"endTime":800.73,"body":"certainly was not the right"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":800.76,"endTime":804.06,"body":"outcome for a lot of cats with"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":800.76,"endTime":804.06,"body":"the particular lifestyles they"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":804.06,"endTime":810.15,"body":"lead. So we produced this linear"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":804.06,"endTime":810.15,"body":"spectrum. And we chose two"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":810.36,"endTime":814.65,"body":"important factors of what made"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":810.36,"endTime":814.65,"body":"up the individual cats and that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":814.65,"endTime":819.15,"body":"was the sort of lifestyle they"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":814.65,"endTime":819.15,"body":"were adapted to, and their"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":819.15,"endTime":824.43,"body":"attitude towards people. So we"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":819.15,"endTime":824.43,"body":"put the Wildcat at the far end"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":824.43,"endTime":826.86,"body":"on the left towards the don't"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":824.43,"endTime":826.86,"body":"want to be near people don't put"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":826.86,"endTime":832.2,"body":"me near people. And then in"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":826.86,"endTime":832.2,"body":"between were the street cats, in"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":832.2,"endTime":837.15,"body":"the UK we would know those as"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":832.2,"endTime":837.15,"body":"community strays or semi ferals."},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":837.39,"endTime":840.72,"body":"And we also put a category of"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":837.39,"endTime":840.72,"body":"cat called the inbetweener."},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":841.35,"endTime":844.35,"body":"Anybody who's worked in rescue"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":841.35,"endTime":844.35,"body":"will know that they've seen cats"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":844.35,"endTime":847.8,"body":"who have been pets before,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":844.35,"endTime":847.8,"body":"clearly weren't very happy pets."},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":848.1,"endTime":851.88,"body":"So we put them on there as well"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":848.1,"endTime":851.88,"body":"to recognise that they needed"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":851.88,"endTime":855.63,"body":"something a bit different. And"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":851.88,"endTime":855.63,"body":"then the pet cat at the other"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":855.63,"endTime":859.23,"body":"end. So it really starts that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":855.63,"endTime":859.23,"body":"conversation, doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":859.23,"endTime":862.83,"body":"matter what you call them, as"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":859.23,"endTime":862.83,"body":"long as you understand that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":862.83,"endTime":865.17,"body":"they're very different to others"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":862.83,"endTime":865.17,"body":"and they have very specific"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":865.17,"endTime":865.74,"body":"needs."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":866.4,"endTime":868.92,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":866.4,"endTime":868.92,"body":"it's such a useful diagram,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":868.92,"endTime":871.62,"body":"these different types of cats,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":868.92,"endTime":871.62,"body":"when they come into the vet"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":871.62,"endTime":874.44,"body":"clinic, how we interact with"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":871.62,"endTime":874.44,"body":"them potentially needs to be"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":874.44,"endTime":877.32,"body":"different depending on where"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":874.44,"endTime":877.32,"body":"they're sitting. The other"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":877.32,"endTime":880.47,"body":"illustration that we use in that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":877.32,"endTime":880.47,"body":"section, Sarah, relates to cats"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":880.47,"endTime":883.38,"body":"emotions and behavioural"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":880.47,"endTime":883.38,"body":"responses, especially towards"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":883.38,"endTime":886.74,"body":"physical interactions. Would you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":883.38,"endTime":886.74,"body":"just be able to give us a brief"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":886.74,"endTime":889.92,"body":"overview on the types of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":886.74,"endTime":889.92,"body":"emotions that they experience,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":890.04,"endTime":892.08,"body":"especially around visiting the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":890.04,"endTime":892.08,"body":"vet clinic?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":892.87,"endTime":895.18,"body":"The cat can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":892.87,"endTime":895.18,"body":"experience the whole range of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":895.18,"endTime":900.01,"body":"emotions actually, and those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":895.18,"endTime":900.01,"body":"emotions may sound, in first the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":900.01,"endTime":903.76,"body":"impression, similar to ours. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":900.01,"endTime":903.76,"body":"of course, they don't have those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":903.94,"endTime":907.48,"body":"levels of cognition. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":903.94,"endTime":907.48,"body":"really individualised"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":907.48,"endTime":910.81,"body":"experience. And we're never"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":907.48,"endTime":910.81,"body":"going to know it fully. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":910.81,"endTime":915.13,"body":"there are these sort of very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":910.81,"endTime":915.13,"body":"ancestral mammalian emotions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":915.19,"endTime":919.78,"body":"that are there to help animals"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":915.19,"endTime":919.78,"body":"survive. And those are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":919.78,"endTime":923.23,"body":"incredibly useful for us to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":919.78,"endTime":923.23,"body":"know, particularly in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":923.23,"endTime":926.8,"body":"veterinary clinic environment,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":923.23,"endTime":926.8,"body":"which a cat may find quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":926.8,"endTime":930.28,"body":"threatening, or quite stressful,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":926.8,"endTime":930.28,"body":"no matter how much we try and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":930.4,"endTime":933.31,"body":"minimise that stress, we can't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":930.4,"endTime":933.31,"body":"get rid of it all. Some of these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":933.31,"endTime":936.58,"body":"cats are in pain, they have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":933.31,"endTime":936.58,"body":"injury, they may have disease or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":936.58,"endTime":939.1,"body":"illness, they may be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":936.58,"endTime":939.1,"body":"uncomfortable. And so they are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":939.1,"endTime":942.4,"body":"going to experience feelings"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":939.1,"endTime":942.4,"body":"that are going to be very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":942.4,"endTime":946.69,"body":"protective to try and keep them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":942.4,"endTime":946.69,"body":"away from further threat or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":946.69,"endTime":950.2,"body":"harm. But before I dive into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":946.69,"endTime":950.2,"body":"those, I'd probably just quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":950.56,"endTime":954.43,"body":"liked to start with thinking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":950.56,"endTime":954.43,"body":"about a very engaging emotion or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":954.43,"endTime":958.27,"body":"a positive emotion. And that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":954.43,"endTime":958.27,"body":"one called seeking. And that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":958.27,"endTime":962.65,"body":"what cats do when they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":958.27,"endTime":962.65,"body":"motivated to find pleasurable"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":962.65,"endTime":965.59,"body":"experiences. This is an emotion"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":962.65,"endTime":965.59,"body":"that we really want to promote"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":965.59,"endTime":969.4,"body":"in the clinic. And we can do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":965.59,"endTime":969.4,"body":"that through play, through food,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":969.61,"endTime":972.46,"body":"through gentle social"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":969.61,"endTime":972.46,"body":"interactions if it's appropriate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":972.46,"endTime":975.97,"body":"for that individual cat. And not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":972.46,"endTime":975.97,"body":"only just appropriate for that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":975.97,"endTime":978.91,"body":"individual cat, but at that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":975.97,"endTime":978.91,"body":"time, that's something else we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":978.91,"endTime":982.3,"body":"need to consider. But then we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":978.91,"endTime":982.3,"body":"need to think about those more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":982.3,"endTime":984.64,"body":"what we call protective"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":982.3,"endTime":984.64,"body":"emotions, the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":984.64,"endTime":988.72,"body":"designed to really help keep"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":984.64,"endTime":988.72,"body":"that cat safe. And the first two"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":988.72,"endTime":992.32,"body":"that spring to mind are fear and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":988.72,"endTime":992.32,"body":"anxiety. And they are about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":992.32,"endTime":995.77,"body":"avoiding threat and harm. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":992.32,"endTime":995.77,"body":"that's a threat that the cat can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":995.89,"endTime":998.5,"body":"perceive straightaway in front"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":995.89,"endTime":998.5,"body":"of it. It's really obvious"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":998.53,"endTime":1000.66,"body":"there's a dog in the waiting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":998.53,"endTime":1000.66,"body":"room, and I'm scared of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1000.66,"endTime":1004.17,"body":"dog. Right up to the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1000.66,"endTime":1004.17,"body":"that's a bit more like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1004.17,"endTime":1007.68,"body":"quite sure what's making me feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1004.17,"endTime":1007.68,"body":"a bit worried. I can't pinpoint"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1007.68,"endTime":1010.74,"body":"exactly what it is, but I am"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1007.68,"endTime":1010.74,"body":"anticipating that something good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1010.74,"endTime":1013.74,"body":"is not going to happen. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1010.74,"endTime":1013.74,"body":"something bad might happen. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1013.74,"endTime":1016.65,"body":"that's fear and anxiety. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1013.74,"endTime":1016.65,"body":"last one I really wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1016.65,"endTime":1021.63,"body":"cover is frustration. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1016.65,"endTime":1021.63,"body":"frustration occurs when a cat is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1021.84,"endTime":1025.38,"body":"prevented from doing something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1021.84,"endTime":1025.38,"body":"that it wants to do. So for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1025.38,"endTime":1029.79,"body":"example, if it wants to access"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1025.38,"endTime":1029.79,"body":"food, and it can't, but also"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1029.79,"endTime":1033.69,"body":"when it wants to access things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1029.79,"endTime":1033.69,"body":"like escape. Less is more when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1033.69,"endTime":1037.14,"body":"it comes to handling. And by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1033.69,"endTime":1037.14,"body":"giving those cats the autonomy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1037.14,"endTime":1041.61,"body":"to move positions, to stop, to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1037.14,"endTime":1041.61,"body":"rest, to sniff, actually helps"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1041.61,"endTime":1044.88,"body":"keep those frustration levels"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1041.61,"endTime":1044.88,"body":"much lower and keeps an animal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1044.88,"endTime":1048.96,"body":"in a much safer place because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1044.88,"endTime":1048.96,"body":"cats that are frustrated can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1048.96,"endTime":1051.93,"body":"show responses such as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1048.96,"endTime":1051.93,"body":"scratching and biting. And the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1051.93,"endTime":1056.7,"body":"last one is pain. That's one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1051.93,"endTime":1056.7,"body":"that covers not just a sensorial"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1056.7,"endTime":1060.09,"body":"experience, but also an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1056.7,"endTime":1060.09,"body":"emotional experience as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"Cats will learn to avoid pain,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"they will be fearful of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1063.99,"endTime":1067.77,"body":"anticipating pain. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1063.99,"endTime":1067.77,"body":"that's a quick synopsis really."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1068.73,"endTime":1071.04,"body":"We might do a"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1068.73,"endTime":1071.04,"body":"separate podcast on each one of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1071.04,"endTime":1074.97,"body":"the emotions maybe. Claire, one"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1071.04,"endTime":1074.97,"body":"of the points of difference for"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1074.97,"endTime":1078.54,"body":"ISFM as a veterinary association"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1074.97,"endTime":1078.54,"body":"has been championing equal"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1078.54,"endTime":1081.42,"body":"consideration to the cat's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1078.54,"endTime":1081.42,"body":"mental well being as well as"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1081.42,"endTime":1085.26,"body":"their physical health. As the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1081.42,"endTime":1085.26,"body":"charity CEO for 28 years, I'd be"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1085.26,"endTime":1088.65,"body":"really interested in hearing"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1085.26,"endTime":1088.65,"body":"your reflections on how this was"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1088.65,"endTime":1089.4,"body":"received."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1089.52,"endTime":1092.46,"body":"I was looking up"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1089.52,"endTime":1092.46,"body":"one of the quotes from 1960, in"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1092.46,"endTime":1095.25,"body":"the very early days of the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1092.46,"endTime":1095.25,"body":"charity, it said there are two"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1095.25,"endTime":1098.73,"body":"recognised diseases in cats. One"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1095.25,"endTime":1098.73,"body":"is cat flu and the other one"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1098.73,"endTime":1102.75,"body":"isn't. And I thought that really"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1098.73,"endTime":1102.75,"body":"just summed up where we were. We"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1102.75,"endTime":1106.68,"body":"talked to those vets who were"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1102.75,"endTime":1106.68,"body":"funded by the charity to"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1106.68,"endTime":1110.16,"body":"specialise in feline medicine,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1106.68,"endTime":1110.16,"body":"when we started to talk to them"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1110.16,"endTime":1114.54,"body":"about what was important, at the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1110.16,"endTime":1114.54,"body":"same time, cat behaviour was"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1114.54,"endTime":1117.9,"body":"coming to the fore, people were"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1114.54,"endTime":1117.9,"body":"understanding cats much better"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1118.02,"endTime":1121.86,"body":"and taking them seriously. And"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1118.02,"endTime":1121.86,"body":"so we began to think about"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1121.89,"endTime":1126.21,"body":"mental wellbeing. It's a credit"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1121.89,"endTime":1126.21,"body":"to the vets in those early days."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1126.24,"endTime":1129.21,"body":"I found another quote that says"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1126.24,"endTime":1129.21,"body":"that FAB, since its"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1129.21,"endTime":1133.68,"body":"inauguration, advised against"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1129.21,"endTime":1133.68,"body":"declawing due to many cases"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1133.68,"endTime":1138.18,"body":"reported of changed personality"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1133.68,"endTime":1138.18,"body":"and psychological upset. So"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1138.18,"endTime":1141.24,"body":"there's nothing there about"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1138.18,"endTime":1141.24,"body":"physical health. It was about"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1141.24,"endTime":1144.6,"body":"how the cats were behaving. And"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1141.24,"endTime":1144.6,"body":"that was the really early days,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1144.63,"endTime":1148.2,"body":"When you think about where we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1144.63,"endTime":1148.2,"body":"were, where we had cats flu and"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1148.23,"endTime":1151.68,"body":"nothing else. I think the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1148.23,"endTime":1151.68,"body":"profession was extremely"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1151.68,"endTime":1156.18,"body":"grateful for a tiny charity such"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1151.68,"endTime":1156.18,"body":"a lot of work was done. And"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1156.18,"endTime":1159.33,"body":"those cat people within the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1156.18,"endTime":1159.33,"body":"profession and around it, found"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1159.33,"endTime":1164.04,"body":"a home, found a place where they"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1159.33,"endTime":1164.04,"body":"could help develop that and take"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1164.04,"endTime":1167.46,"body":"things on. You look now at where"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1164.04,"endTime":1167.46,"body":"we are with cats and how we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1167.46,"endTime":1172.38,"body":"treat them. It's fantastic. And"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1167.46,"endTime":1172.38,"body":"it isn't just iCatCare and ISFM"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1172.41,"endTime":1174.9,"body":"who were talking about it and"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1172.41,"endTime":1174.9,"body":"that's the aim of the game."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1175.86,"endTime":1177.45,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1175.86,"endTime":1177.45,"body":"true, isn't it? A lot of the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1177.45,"endTime":1180.0,"body":"things that we talked about,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1177.45,"endTime":1180.0,"body":"especially in those early days,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1180.63,"endTime":1183.75,"body":"have really become mainstream"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1180.63,"endTime":1183.75,"body":"within the veterinary"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1183.75,"endTime":1187.08,"body":"profession, which is lovely."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1183.75,"endTime":1187.08,"body":"Vicky, I wanted to talk to you a"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1187.08,"endTime":1190.29,"body":"little bit about what we see in"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1187.08,"endTime":1190.29,"body":"a lot of pet cats that are"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1190.32,"endTime":1193.05,"body":"relinquished to shelters,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1190.32,"endTime":1193.05,"body":"potentially due to medical"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1193.05,"endTime":1196.44,"body":"conditions that have some degree"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1193.05,"endTime":1196.44,"body":"of a behavioural component."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1196.59,"endTime":1199.23,"body":"Probably the most common of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1196.59,"endTime":1199.23,"body":"those is urinary issues that may"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1199.23,"endTime":1202.8,"body":"or may not be lower urinary"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1199.23,"endTime":1202.8,"body":"tract disease, and how do you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1202.8,"endTime":1206.76,"body":"speak to both pet owners but"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1202.8,"endTime":1206.76,"body":"also shelter personnel about"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1206.76,"endTime":1210.45,"body":"relinquishment under those"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1206.76,"endTime":1210.45,"body":"circumstances, where maybe there"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1210.45,"endTime":1213.54,"body":"are situations where the mental"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1210.45,"endTime":1213.54,"body":"well being issues may not be"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1213.54,"endTime":1216.87,"body":"able to be addressed in their"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1213.54,"endTime":1216.87,"body":"current home, or that current"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1216.87,"endTime":1220.05,"body":"environment is causing"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1216.87,"endTime":1220.05,"body":"unintended harm to the cat."},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1220.83,"endTime":1224.64,"body":"That stress"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1220.83,"endTime":1224.64,"body":"cystitis situation was a really"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1224.64,"endTime":1229.23,"body":"big thing while I was working"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1224.64,"endTime":1229.23,"body":"with clients, and we all know"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1229.23,"endTime":1232.95,"body":"that in order to manage that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1229.23,"endTime":1232.95,"body":"condition, it's a very complex,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1233.22,"endTime":1237.48,"body":"multifactorial solution to get"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1233.22,"endTime":1237.48,"body":"good management. And there were"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1237.48,"endTime":1242.19,"body":"times in my career where there"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1237.48,"endTime":1242.19,"body":"was something so wrong about the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1242.19,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"environment, irrespective of how"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1242.19,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"wonderful, conscientious, or"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1249.78,"body":"loving the owner was, that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1249.78,"body":"particular cat had very specific"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1249.78,"endTime":1253.29,"body":"needs, and those needs were not"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1249.78,"endTime":1253.29,"body":"being met in that home. That"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1253.29,"endTime":1256.56,"body":"requires a very difficult and"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1253.29,"endTime":1256.56,"body":"sensitive conversation with the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1256.56,"endTime":1260.43,"body":"owner. And when the owner"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1256.56,"endTime":1260.43,"body":"decides for themselves, that's"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1260.43,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"going to be the best option for"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1260.43,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"their pet, because they just"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1263.07,"endTime":1267.24,"body":"can't manage those symptoms,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1263.07,"endTime":1267.24,"body":"then it's important that they"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1267.24,"endTime":1272.04,"body":"understand how well the cat does"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1267.24,"endTime":1272.04,"body":"in the future. Information is so"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1272.04,"endTime":1276.42,"body":"important. And to get that kind"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1272.04,"endTime":1276.42,"body":"of information from somebody"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1276.42,"endTime":1279.99,"body":"giving up their pet, because"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1276.42,"endTime":1279.99,"body":"let's face it, if their pets had"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1279.99,"endTime":1283.02,"body":"stress cystitis, they may have"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1279.99,"endTime":1283.02,"body":"messed around the house, people"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1283.02,"endTime":1286.62,"body":"can censor that information. And"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1283.02,"endTime":1286.62,"body":"they can actually hold it back"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1286.62,"endTime":1289.05,"body":"thinking it may act to the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1286.62,"endTime":1289.05,"body":"detriment of their cat or its"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1289.05,"endTime":1292.56,"body":"future. So they start saying"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1289.05,"endTime":1292.56,"body":"things like, my child's allergic"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1292.56,"endTime":1295.98,"body":"or got to move, can't take the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1292.56,"endTime":1295.98,"body":"cat. That relationship of trust,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1296.13,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"whereby the person understands"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1296.13,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"that whatever they say, it will"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1300.66,"endTime":1304.77,"body":"be positive, because we need to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1300.66,"endTime":1304.77,"body":"have information, warts and all,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1305.13,"endTime":1308.55,"body":"about the cats that are going"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1305.13,"endTime":1308.55,"body":"into care for very specific"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1308.55,"endTime":1311.31,"body":"reasons. The most important"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1308.55,"endTime":1311.31,"body":"thing is building that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1311.31,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"relationship, finding out what's"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1311.31,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"going wrong for that cat to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1318.66,"body":"establish what that cat needs."},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1318.66,"body":"And that's what you look for in"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1318.66,"endTime":1322.89,"body":"the future home. They homing"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1318.66,"endTime":1322.89,"body":"centre staff have to do a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1322.89,"endTime":1325.14,"body":"similar sort of thing to the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1322.89,"endTime":1325.14,"body":"clinical behaviourists. They"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1325.14,"endTime":1328.59,"body":"have to establish what the issue"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1325.14,"endTime":1328.59,"body":"is, and try and establish what"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1328.59,"endTime":1332.22,"body":"that cat needs that it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1328.59,"endTime":1332.22,"body":"have in existing home. And the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1332.31,"endTime":1335.22,"body":"bottom line is get that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1332.31,"endTime":1335.22,"body":"relationship working and you"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1335.22,"endTime":1336.57,"body":"will get that information."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1337.41,"endTime":1339.24,"body":"And when we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1337.41,"endTime":1339.24,"body":"were writing the principles, it"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1343.05,"body":"really did become apparent quite"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1343.05,"body":"quickly that we'd written three"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1343.05,"endTime":1345.81,"body":"that were very much focused on"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1343.05,"endTime":1345.81,"body":"the cat, respecting the cat,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1345.81,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"keeping cats well and doing cats"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1345.81,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"no harm. How would you summarise"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1350.28,"endTime":1351.54,"body":"those three principles?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1351.54,"endTime":1353.49,"body":"We're lucky that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1351.54,"endTime":1353.49,"body":"we're all really on the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1353.49,"endTime":1356.94,"body":"page at iCatCare. And I think we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1353.49,"endTime":1356.94,"body":"do take a very holistic approach"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1356.94,"endTime":1362.16,"body":"to cat welfare, we consider all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1356.94,"endTime":1362.16,"body":"aspects of the cat. Everybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1362.16,"endTime":1365.07,"body":"knows what we mean by the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1362.16,"endTime":1365.07,"body":"physical health of a cat. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1365.1,"endTime":1368.79,"body":"mental well being is really an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1365.1,"endTime":1368.79,"body":"umbrella term for the cat's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1368.85,"endTime":1371.61,"body":"emotional health. And we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1368.85,"endTime":1371.61,"body":"talked a bit about some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1371.61,"endTime":1374.13,"body":"emotions that cats can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1371.61,"endTime":1374.13,"body":"experience, but also its"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1374.13,"endTime":1376.77,"body":"cognitive health. So we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1374.13,"endTime":1376.77,"body":"thinking about the ways it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1376.77,"endTime":1380.19,"body":"learns as well. Helping that cat"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1376.77,"endTime":1380.19,"body":"to learn through positive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1380.19,"endTime":1383.22,"body":"reinforcement and not through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1380.19,"endTime":1383.22,"body":"punishment based techniques. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1383.22,"endTime":1387.0,"body":"no spraying it with water or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1383.22,"endTime":1387.0,"body":"shouting at it, none of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1387.0,"endTime":1390.27,"body":"types of things. And when we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1387.0,"endTime":1390.27,"body":"think about doing the cat no"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.11,"body":"harm then we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.11,"body":"not just no physical harm, we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1394.11,"endTime":1397.68,"body":"also thinking about no emotional"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1394.11,"endTime":1397.68,"body":"harm. We want to keep that cat"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1398.07,"endTime":1401.79,"body":"in a safe emotional place where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1398.07,"endTime":1401.79,"body":"it's not feeling threatened or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1401.79,"endTime":1406.11,"body":"at risk of harm, and also no"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1401.79,"endTime":1406.11,"body":"cognitive harm. So we want to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1406.11,"endTime":1409.23,"body":"supporting that animals"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1406.11,"endTime":1409.23,"body":"cognition as it gets older, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1409.23,"endTime":1413.13,"body":"want to be making sure it learns"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1409.23,"endTime":1413.13,"body":"in the most efficient, positive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1413.13,"endTime":1417.24,"body":"and safe ways. Finally, if we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1413.13,"endTime":1417.24,"body":"think about our respecting cats,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1417.27,"endTime":1420.6,"body":"it's going back down to that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1417.27,"endTime":1420.6,"body":"individualised approach that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1420.6,"endTime":1424.92,"body":"one, we understand what a cat is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1420.6,"endTime":1424.92,"body":"when it comes to its welfare,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1425.22,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"but also that not every cat the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1425.22,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"same. They're all individuals."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1428.31,"endTime":1430.56,"body":"And I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1428.31,"endTime":1430.56,"body":"that we've said for a long time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1430.56,"endTime":1434.1,"body":"at iCatCare is cats are not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1430.56,"endTime":1434.1,"body":"small dogs, their cats, they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1434.1,"endTime":1437.79,"body":"a species in their own right,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1434.1,"endTime":1437.79,"body":"every single cat is different."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1438.0,"endTime":1441.48,"body":"They're all individuals. That's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1438.0,"endTime":1441.48,"body":"really what we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1441.48,"endTime":1446.7,"body":"in our cat centric sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1441.48,"endTime":1446.7,"body":"welfare approach is considering"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1446.88,"endTime":1450.24,"body":"the physical health, emotional"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1446.88,"endTime":1450.24,"body":"health, the cognitive health,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1450.51,"endTime":1453.3,"body":"and not just what that means at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1450.51,"endTime":1453.3,"body":"the species level. But what that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1453.3,"endTime":1454.8,"body":"means for every individual."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1455.31,"endTime":1457.26,"body":"Our principle"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1455.31,"endTime":1457.26,"body":"about being solution driven for"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1457.26,"endTime":1460.68,"body":"cats encourages people to find"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1457.26,"endTime":1460.68,"body":"evidence based pragmatic,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1460.71,"endTime":1464.43,"body":"sustainable solutions for cats"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1460.71,"endTime":1464.43,"body":"and sometimes in the veterinary"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1464.43,"endTime":1467.64,"body":"world, there's a sort of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1464.43,"endTime":1467.64,"body":"perception that pragmatic is"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1467.64,"endTime":1472.05,"body":"seen as less and that we should"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1467.64,"endTime":1472.05,"body":"be striving for gold standard or"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1472.26,"endTime":1475.53,"body":"a high level of care. Would you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1472.26,"endTime":1475.53,"body":"be able to explain what we mean"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1475.53,"endTime":1479.19,"body":"by pragmatic when we use it and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1475.53,"endTime":1479.19,"body":"how being pragmatic can really"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1479.19,"endTime":1480.78,"body":"advance feline welfare?"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1481.5,"endTime":1483.54,"body":"I thought I'd"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1481.5,"endTime":1483.54,"body":"look up gold standard and I'd"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1483.54,"endTime":1486.78,"body":"look up pragmatic, just to be"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1483.54,"endTime":1486.78,"body":"sure. Gold standard, a thing of"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1486.78,"endTime":1490.47,"body":"superior quality which serves as"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1486.78,"endTime":1490.47,"body":"a point of reference against"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1490.47,"endTime":1494.4,"body":"which other things of its type"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1490.47,"endTime":1494.4,"body":"may be compared. Bear that mind."},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1494.46,"endTime":1498.18,"body":"Pragmatic, meeting sensible and"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1494.46,"endTime":1498.18,"body":"realistic, based on practical"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1498.18,"endTime":1501.72,"body":"things, which is fairly"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1498.18,"endTime":1501.72,"body":"straightforward. So then I"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1501.72,"endTime":1504.3,"body":"thought back to those very early"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1501.72,"endTime":1504.3,"body":"days of the charity when it was"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1504.3,"endTime":1507.78,"body":"flu or not cat flu, and I"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1504.3,"endTime":1507.78,"body":"thought just about anything was"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1507.78,"endTime":1510.3,"body":"gold standard at that point,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1507.78,"endTime":1510.3,"body":"because we knew absolutely"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1510.3,"endTime":1513.69,"body":"nothing. And what was"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1510.3,"endTime":1513.69,"body":"pragmatism, it was treating a"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1513.69,"endTime":1517.11,"body":"cat as a small dog, because"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1513.69,"endTime":1517.11,"body":"that's all we knew. So we've"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1517.11,"endTime":1520.11,"body":"come cquite a long way from"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1517.11,"endTime":1520.11,"body":"that. You're not just treating a"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1520.11,"endTime":1524.49,"body":"cat on a consult table, you're"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1520.11,"endTime":1524.49,"body":"working with the owners, you've"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1524.49,"endTime":1527.04,"body":"got owners who are very good at"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1524.49,"endTime":1527.04,"body":"dealing with their cats,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1527.04,"endTime":1530.07,"body":"handling them, and owners who"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1527.04,"endTime":1530.07,"body":"can't do anything, people who"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1530.07,"endTime":1533.37,"body":"can pay, people who can't pay,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1530.07,"endTime":1533.37,"body":"all sorts of things. To treat a"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1533.37,"endTime":1537.21,"body":"cat is just so much more complex"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1533.37,"endTime":1537.21,"body":"than that. And we've used the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1537.21,"endTime":1540.03,"body":"word pragmatic, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1537.21,"endTime":1540.03,"body":"because for cats, the reality of"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1540.06,"endTime":1544.08,"body":"the situation is what treatments"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1540.06,"endTime":1544.08,"body":"we can give pet cats, but can"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1544.08,"endTime":1547.44,"body":"they be given. And if you look,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1544.08,"endTime":1547.44,"body":"in all those different countries"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1551.49,"body":"where people are striving to do"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1551.49,"body":"the best for cats, they don't"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1551.49,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"necessarily have the treatments"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1551.49,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"available that may be available"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1555.09,"endTime":1557.91,"body":"in other countries, people try"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1555.09,"endTime":1557.91,"body":"to do the best they can in that"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1557.91,"endTime":1561.66,"body":"situation. Our founder, Joan"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1557.91,"endTime":1561.66,"body":"Judd once said, and I thought"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1561.66,"endTime":1564.93,"body":"this was such a nice quote, in"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1561.66,"endTime":1564.93,"body":"our pursuit of knowledge we can"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1564.93,"endTime":1568.44,"body":"lose sight of compassion, we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1564.93,"endTime":1568.44,"body":"must not get caught up in the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1568.44,"endTime":1571.95,"body":"excitement of achievement to the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1568.44,"endTime":1571.95,"body":"exclusion of all else, or this"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1571.95,"endTime":1578.22,"body":"will defeat our aims. If we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1571.95,"endTime":1578.22,"body":"rephrased gold standard to gold"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1578.22,"endTime":1582.9,"body":"standard solution for that cat,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1578.22,"endTime":1582.9,"body":"bearing in mind all our"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1582.9,"endTime":1587.94,"body":"principles, it may not be the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1582.9,"endTime":1587.94,"body":"perfect medical solution. But"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1588.36,"endTime":1592.86,"body":"the gold standard is what can"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1588.36,"endTime":1592.86,"body":"actually be fulfilled. So I"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1592.86,"endTime":1595.47,"body":"think striving for knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1592.86,"endTime":1595.47,"body":"gold standard, there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1595.47,"endTime":1598.59,"body":"wrong with that. But if we think"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1595.47,"endTime":1598.59,"body":"of it as a gold standard"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1602.22,"body":"solution for that animal that's"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1602.22,"body":"actually being pragmatic at the"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1602.22,"endTime":1602.94,"body":"same time."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1603.27,"endTime":1604.68,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1603.27,"endTime":1604.68,"body":"Claire. That's a brilliant"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1604.68,"endTime":1608.31,"body":"answer. And I think it really"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1604.68,"endTime":1608.31,"body":"sums up the direction for the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1608.31,"endTime":1611.13,"body":"veterinary profession that we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1608.31,"endTime":1611.13,"body":"need to be moving. And Vicki,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1611.34,"endTime":1614.43,"body":"your job requires a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1611.34,"endTime":1614.43,"body":"of communication and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1614.43,"endTime":1617.46,"body":"collaboration. And I wondered if"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1614.43,"endTime":1617.46,"body":"you could share with us why you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1619.5,"body":"think, especially in that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1619.5,"body":"relationship between the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1619.5,"endTime":1622.68,"body":"veterinary sector and people"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1619.5,"endTime":1622.68,"body":"that work with and for unowned"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1622.68,"endTime":1626.61,"body":"cats, the collaboration and the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1622.68,"endTime":1626.61,"body":"communication can be challenging"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1626.64,"endTime":1627.6,"body":"on both sides?"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1628.65,"endTime":1631.65,"body":"The whole unowned"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1628.65,"endTime":1631.65,"body":"cat world is all about cat"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1631.68,"endTime":1635.67,"body":"population management. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1631.68,"endTime":1635.67,"body":"people who work in the unowned"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1635.67,"endTime":1638.46,"body":"cat sector, bear in mind that a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1635.67,"endTime":1638.46,"body":"majority of them are actually"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1638.46,"endTime":1642.24,"body":"volunteers from all over the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1638.46,"endTime":1642.24,"body":"world, they work incredibly"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1642.24,"endTime":1646.5,"body":"hard. And they don't stop to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1642.24,"endTime":1646.5,"body":"think I need to build up a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1646.5,"endTime":1649.44,"body":"relationship with this"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1646.5,"endTime":1649.44,"body":"veterinary practice because they"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1649.44,"endTime":1653.37,"body":"are our collaborators. And we"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1649.44,"endTime":1653.37,"body":"need to work in partnership to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1653.37,"endTime":1656.46,"body":"make this work well. So it turns"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1653.37,"endTime":1656.46,"body":"into something quite"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1656.46,"endTime":1659.94,"body":"transactional. And I don't think"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1656.46,"endTime":1659.94,"body":"that's terribly satisfying for"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1659.94,"endTime":1663.72,"body":"the vets either because it's"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1659.94,"endTime":1663.72,"body":"quite often complex and"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1663.72,"endTime":1668.55,"body":"challenging work, it's often low"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1663.72,"endTime":1668.55,"body":"cost with regard to revenue. And"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1668.73,"endTime":1672.69,"body":"so often, the neutering will be"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1668.73,"endTime":1672.69,"body":"done, the cats will go out and"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1672.69,"endTime":1675.9,"body":"they'll say, oh, and that will"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1672.69,"endTime":1675.9,"body":"be the end of the relationship"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1675.9,"endTime":1678.75,"body":"between the two parties. The"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1675.9,"endTime":1678.75,"body":"other thing is, when they're"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1678.75,"endTime":1683.28,"body":"dealing with medical cases in"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1678.75,"endTime":1683.28,"body":"homing centres, there's that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1683.34,"endTime":1686.94,"body":"need to know attitude. And this"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1683.34,"endTime":1686.94,"body":"is just what I've acquired"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1686.94,"endTime":1689.61,"body":"through conversations with"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1686.94,"endTime":1689.61,"body":"various people. And they say"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1689.61,"endTime":1691.95,"body":"we're not quite sure because we"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1689.61,"endTime":1691.95,"body":"didn't really understand what"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1691.95,"endTime":1695.04,"body":"the vet said. So there's that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1691.95,"endTime":1695.04,"body":"breakdown in communication,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1695.07,"endTime":1698.82,"body":"there's a sense that they've got"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1695.07,"endTime":1698.82,"body":"no common ground. The"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1698.82,"endTime":1701.91,"body":"relationship is just"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1698.82,"endTime":1701.91,"body":"transactional. Whereas there's a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1701.91,"endTime":1706.98,"body":"huge movement now within the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1701.91,"endTime":1706.98,"body":"unowned cat sector to become"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1706.98,"endTime":1710.4,"body":"more professional. They want to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1706.98,"endTime":1710.4,"body":"be seen as a profession, as a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1710.4,"endTime":1713.49,"body":"career pathway. And this is"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1710.4,"endTime":1713.49,"body":"really exciting. And they're"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1713.49,"endTime":1715.77,"body":"starting to lift their heads up"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1713.49,"endTime":1715.77,"body":"and put their heads over the"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1715.77,"endTime":1719.97,"body":"parapet and say, I think we need"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1715.77,"endTime":1719.97,"body":"to collaborate, I think we need"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1719.97,"endTime":1724.44,"body":"to evolve. I think we need to"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1719.97,"endTime":1724.44,"body":"improve things. I think if that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1724.44,"endTime":1727.89,"body":"can be achieved, and if they're"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1724.44,"endTime":1727.89,"body":"just explicit with each other"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1727.92,"endTime":1731.13,"body":"and make it clear what their"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1727.92,"endTime":1731.13,"body":"needs are, they can build that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1731.13,"endTime":1734.97,"body":"working relationship. At that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1731.13,"endTime":1734.97,"body":"moment I think that's present in"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1734.97,"endTime":1738.54,"body":"pockets around the world but not"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1734.97,"endTime":1738.54,"body":"universally."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1741.27,"body":"Neither party"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1741.27,"body":"can do their job without that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1741.27,"endTime":1743.79,"body":"communication and that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1741.27,"endTime":1743.79,"body":"collaboration element, if we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1743.79,"endTime":1747.69,"body":"want to have the right outcome"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1743.79,"endTime":1747.69,"body":"for these cats. Just to finish"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1747.69,"endTime":1750.75,"body":"up our session, I was wondering"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1747.69,"endTime":1750.75,"body":"if each of you would be able to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1750.75,"endTime":1754.14,"body":"share what you think is the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1750.75,"endTime":1754.14,"body":"biggest evolution for cats that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1754.14,"endTime":1756.84,"body":"you've seen over your career,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1754.14,"endTime":1756.84,"body":"Sarah, I was going to turn to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1756.84,"endTime":1757.86,"body":"you first."},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1758.67,"endTime":1761.82,"body":"So when I did start"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1758.67,"endTime":1761.82,"body":"my PhD, which was the first time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1761.82,"endTime":1766.8,"body":"then I was studying just cats, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1761.82,"endTime":1766.8,"body":"was searching for scientific"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1766.8,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"papers and research done on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1766.8,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"behaviour and welfare, any"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1769.92,"endTime":1773.4,"body":"aspects of the cat human"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1769.92,"endTime":1773.4,"body":"relationship, when it was like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1773.61,"endTime":1777.75,"body":"digging for gold. When you found"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1773.61,"endTime":1777.75,"body":"one, it was so exciting. I could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1777.96,"endTime":1781.41,"body":"mentally file those papers. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1777.96,"endTime":1781.41,"body":"could tell you, they were in my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1781.41,"endTime":1785.07,"body":"brain, the date, the names of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1781.41,"endTime":1785.07,"body":"the author, what they were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1785.07,"endTime":1787.89,"body":"about, and I could reel them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1785.07,"endTime":1787.89,"body":"off. And then I would wait"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1788.04,"endTime":1792.6,"body":"weeks, if not months, before"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1788.04,"endTime":1792.6,"body":"another one came. And that was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1792.6,"endTime":1796.71,"body":"the state of behavioural"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1792.6,"endTime":1796.71,"body":"cognition, Welfare Research, for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1796.71,"endTime":1801.75,"body":"cats at that time. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1796.71,"endTime":1801.75,"body":"now their coming in thick and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1801.75,"endTime":1805.74,"body":"fast, not just every week, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1801.75,"endTime":1805.74,"body":"sometimes every day. Today"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1805.74,"endTime":1808.17,"body":"alone, there's three I've seen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1805.74,"endTime":1808.17,"body":"that I've thought, oh, I need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1808.17,"endTime":1812.61,"body":"read all of those. So for me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1808.17,"endTime":1812.61,"body":"that evolution, that development"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1812.64,"endTime":1820.5,"body":"of global interest in this topic"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1812.64,"endTime":1820.5,"body":"of behaviour and welfare is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Ellis","startTime":1820.5,"endTime":1822.36,"body":"just, for me, so fantastic."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1823.26,"endTime":1825.54,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1823.26,"endTime":1825.54,"body":"Sarah. The volume of papers has"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1829.02,"body":"been increasing year on year."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1829.02,"body":"Claire, what have you noticed?"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1829.02,"endTime":1830.76,"body":"What's the biggest evolution you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1829.02,"endTime":1830.76,"body":"have seen?"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1831.69,"endTime":1834.27,"body":"I've been"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1831.69,"endTime":1834.27,"body":"noticing what the charity did"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1834.33,"endTime":1839.19,"body":"even before I joined it probably"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1834.33,"endTime":1839.19,"body":"30 to 35 years ago. And it was a"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1839.19,"endTime":1844.38,"body":"time when suddenly all these"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1839.19,"endTime":1844.38,"body":"diseases were suddenly coming to"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1844.38,"endTime":1851.1,"body":"the fore. So we had FIV, FSE"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1844.38,"endTime":1851.1,"body":"FELV, diabetes, everything was"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1851.1,"endTime":1854.46,"body":"new, and so there was just"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1851.1,"endTime":1854.46,"body":"volumes of stuff coming out all"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1854.46,"endTime":1856.77,"body":"about the physical health of"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1854.46,"endTime":1856.77,"body":"cats. And that was a really"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1856.77,"endTime":1861.99,"body":"exciting time. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1856.77,"endTime":1861.99,"body":"led to the development of ISFM"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1861.99,"endTime":1864.03,"body":"and the Journal Of Feline"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1861.99,"endTime":1864.03,"body":"Medicine And Surgery as well,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1864.03,"endTime":1867.09,"body":"because there was so much to"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1864.03,"endTime":1867.09,"body":"say, because there was very"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1867.12,"endTime":1871.02,"body":"little before that. The charity,"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1867.12,"endTime":1871.02,"body":"it was probably fairly unique in"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1871.02,"endTime":1873.81,"body":"the beginning to even be"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1871.02,"endTime":1873.81,"body":"thinking about those things then"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1873.81,"endTime":1876.3,"body":"at the same time when we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1873.81,"endTime":1876.3,"body":"couldn't treat anything. We"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1876.3,"endTime":1879.99,"body":"understood that we had to think"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1876.3,"endTime":1879.99,"body":"about the cat itself and how we"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1879.99,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"did that. So to see that"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1879.99,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"happening is just absolutely"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1886.02,"body":"fantastic. And we're talking"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1886.02,"body":"about health, we're talking"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1886.02,"endTime":1889.2,"body":"about well being, we're bringing"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1886.02,"endTime":1889.2,"body":"it all together and to see that"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1889.2,"endTime":1893.01,"body":"come together is just absolutely"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1889.2,"endTime":1893.01,"body":"fantastic and to be involved"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1893.01,"endTime":1894.36,"body":"with the people who are doing"},{"speaker":"Claire Bessant","startTime":1893.01,"endTime":1894.36,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1894.66,"endTime":1896.67,"body":"And things"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1894.66,"endTime":1896.67,"body":"like if FIP being first"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1896.67,"endTime":1900.33,"body":"recognised, all the way through"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1896.67,"endTime":1900.33,"body":"to these recent years where we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1900.66,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"are at the stage where we can"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1900.66,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"say we can treat this disease"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1903.48,"endTime":1906.87,"body":"that was previously untreated."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1903.48,"endTime":1906.87,"body":"Well, it's a really fascinating"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1906.9,"endTime":1910.38,"body":"evolutionary arc to have"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1906.9,"endTime":1910.38,"body":"observed. How about you, Vicky?"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1910.38,"endTime":1912.9,"body":"What's the biggest evolution"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1910.38,"endTime":1912.9,"body":"that you've noticed?"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1912.0,"endTime":1915.15,"body":"The different"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1912.0,"endTime":1915.15,"body":"countries are starting to talk"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1915.15,"endTime":1918.45,"body":"globally about issues, we're"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1915.15,"endTime":1918.45,"body":"starting to recognise global"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1918.45,"endTime":1921.54,"body":"issues and there's, because of"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1918.45,"endTime":1921.54,"body":"the way we've become such a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1921.54,"endTime":1926.19,"body":"small planet now, I think that"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1921.54,"endTime":1926.19,"body":"technology that has enabled this"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1926.19,"endTime":1930.3,"body":"to become a much smaller world,"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1926.19,"endTime":1930.3,"body":"has enabled that knowledge as a"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1930.3,"endTime":1935.13,"body":"consequence to spread. So for my"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1930.3,"endTime":1935.13,"body":"lifetime over the past 60 odd"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1935.13,"endTime":1938.49,"body":"years, the fact that we can"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1935.13,"endTime":1938.49,"body":"communicate and talk and share"},{"speaker":"Vicky Halls","startTime":1938.82,"endTime":1939.75,"body":"across the globe."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1940.83,"endTime":1943.05,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1940.83,"endTime":1943.05,"body":"a fantastic point Vicky and some"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1943.05,"endTime":1946.5,"body":"of that was behind the decision"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1943.05,"endTime":1946.5,"body":"making when we converted JFMS"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1946.68,"endTime":1950.79,"body":"into an open access journal this"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1946.68,"endTime":1950.79,"body":"year is that, we've gone from"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1951.06,"endTime":1954.0,"body":"having a very informal journal"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1951.06,"endTime":1954.0,"body":"back in the FAB days, a"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1954.0,"endTime":1957.36,"body":"newsletter as it were, and then"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1954.0,"endTime":1957.36,"body":"moving towards a peer reviewed"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1957.36,"endTime":1961.62,"body":"journal with JFMS. And now it's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1957.36,"endTime":1961.62,"body":"an open access journal that's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1961.89,"endTime":1964.77,"body":"fully available to anyone"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1961.89,"endTime":1964.77,"body":"virtually and that ease of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1964.77,"endTime":1968.13,"body":"access just isn't something we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1964.77,"endTime":1968.13,"body":"would have even realised was an"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1968.13,"endTime":1970.74,"body":"option 20 years ago. When I was"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1968.13,"endTime":1970.74,"body":"thinking about how I was going"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1970.74,"endTime":1973.59,"body":"to answer this question, I was"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1970.74,"endTime":1973.59,"body":"reflecting on my area of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1973.59,"endTime":1976.92,"body":"research interest, which is"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1973.59,"endTime":1976.92,"body":"ageing cats and osteoarthritis,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1976.92,"endTime":1980.43,"body":"and some of the very early"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1976.92,"endTime":1980.43,"body":"papers around radiographic"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1980.43,"endTime":1983.91,"body":"lesions of osteoarthritis were"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1980.43,"endTime":1983.91,"body":"just publishing while I was at"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1983.91,"endTime":1988.11,"body":"vet school. And we were starting"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1983.91,"endTime":1988.11,"body":"to recognise that yes, cats did"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1988.11,"endTime":1992.25,"body":"have osteoarthritis. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1988.11,"endTime":1992.25,"body":"think we really recognised the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1992.25,"endTime":1995.31,"body":"significance because we just"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1992.25,"endTime":1995.31,"body":"didn't have the skills and the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1995.31,"endTime":1999.63,"body":"tools to truly understand"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1995.31,"endTime":1999.63,"body":"chronic pain. And to me pain"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1999.63,"endTime":2003.56,"body":"assessment, both acute and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":1999.63,"endTime":2003.56,"body":"chronic, our tools to be able to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2003.56,"endTime":2007.28,"body":"do that, but also our drugs to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2003.56,"endTime":2007.28,"body":"be able to treat it, have just"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2010.79,"body":"increased exponentially over the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2010.79,"body":"last 10 years or so especially."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2010.97,"endTime":2014.87,"body":"And some of that also has that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2010.97,"endTime":2014.87,"body":"technology element, that a lot"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2014.87,"endTime":2017.54,"body":"of these tools that we use, we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2014.87,"endTime":2017.54,"body":"can access through our"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2017.54,"endTime":2021.29,"body":"smartphones, through computer"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2017.54,"endTime":2021.29,"body":"algorithms. And I think all of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2021.29,"endTime":2025.1,"body":"that is really having a massive"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2021.29,"endTime":2025.1,"body":"impact on that physical health"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2025.1,"endTime":2028.28,"body":"element of pain. But as Sarah"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2025.1,"endTime":2028.28,"body":"alluded to earlier, there's the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2028.28,"endTime":2031.97,"body":"emotional element of chronic"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2028.28,"endTime":2031.97,"body":"pain especially as well. And I"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2031.97,"endTime":2035.21,"body":"think that's having a massive"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2031.97,"endTime":2035.21,"body":"advancement in feline welfare."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2041.54,"endTime":2044.57,"body":"If you are an ISFM member don’t"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2041.54,"endTime":2044.57,"body":"forget you can access all the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2044.57,"endTime":2049.31,"body":"other ISFM member benefit"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2044.57,"endTime":2049.31,"body":"including our 2020, 2021, and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2049.31,"endTime":2053.81,"body":"2022 congress recordings. The"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2049.31,"endTime":2053.81,"body":"2023 congress recordings will"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2053.81,"endTime":2058.07,"body":"also be going live in July. We"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2053.81,"endTime":2058.07,"body":"also have monthly webinars and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2058.1,"endTime":2061.91,"body":"clinical club, the discussion"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2058.1,"endTime":2061.91,"body":"forum and much much more and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2061.91,"endTime":2065.72,"body":"that's all available through"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2061.91,"endTime":2065.72,"body":"portal.icatcare.org. If you're"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2065.72,"endTime":2068.93,"body":"looking for more CPD in July, we"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2065.72,"endTime":2068.93,"body":"have further open access"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2068.93,"endTime":2072.98,"body":"webinars. The first one is from"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2068.93,"endTime":2072.98,"body":"IDEXX, 'Management of feline"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2072.98,"endTime":2076.73,"body":"chronic enteropathy', and second"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2072.98,"endTime":2076.73,"body":"one is from Bova, ‘Feline"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2076.73,"endTime":2080.72,"body":"sleepy? Anxiolysis and sedation"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2076.73,"endTime":2080.72,"body":"tips.' So do keep an eye on the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2080.75,"endTime":2084.65,"body":"ISFM social media channels for"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2080.75,"endTime":2084.65,"body":"more details on those. Don’t"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2084.65,"endTime":2088.64,"body":"forget, JFMS is now an open"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2084.65,"endTime":2088.64,"body":"access journal so if you wish to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2088.64,"endTime":2091.28,"body":"read JFMS's Cat Friendly"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2088.64,"endTime":2091.28,"body":"Principles for veterinary"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2091.28,"endTime":2094.19,"body":"professionals, the link is"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2091.28,"endTime":2094.19,"body":"available in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2094.85,"endTime":2097.43,"body":"We'll be back again next month."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2094.85,"endTime":2097.43,"body":"If you don't want to miss it,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2097.46,"endTime":2100.61,"body":"then do make sure you sign up to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2097.46,"endTime":2100.61,"body":"Chattering with ISFM on your"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":2100.61,"endTime":2101.93,"body":"preferred podcast channel."}]}