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You're listening to The Bible Guys,
a podcast where a couple of friends talk

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about the Bible in fun in practical
ways. Well, good morning everyone.

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Here we are. My name is
Chris and I'm Jeff, and we are

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the Bible Guys. I can't believe
we just instinctively did that. That's so

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funny. So if in case you're
wondering, we never script anything. We

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just wing it. So that's funny
that the only difference is you sort of

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sang it. The Bible Guys.
I figured you were going to stay right

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at the pitch you were at.
Oh love you a little bit. So

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hey, today we're gonna start out
with a segment called mail bags. I

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love mail bags. Mail bags are
great mailbags. We always say mail bags.

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We always sing that one. So, uh, mail bags is somebody

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who just writes in and just wants
to communicate with us, So we are

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always careful to say we love responses, we love questions. So email us

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at info at the Bible guys dot
com and we would love to consider your

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question because normally we love it when
you send us a question. But Erica,

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oh you crossed the line. Oh
yeah, yeah, yeah, this

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one, this one says, I
have really enjoyed listening to both of you

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every morning on my way to work. Eric, that's nice. We often

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get to see your silly sides.
But I wanted to ask, what are

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some of your favorite characteristics about each
other? What? Yeah, we're gonna

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get serious. So, Jeff,
what are your favorite characteristics about Chris?

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So, Jeff, what are your
favorite characteristics about Chris? And vice versa?

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Well Erica, Erica, Oh,
that's a little presumptuous to assume that

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we have fondness for each other.
Jesus serious, all right, So Chris

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and I have how long we've known
each other? For eighteen years or something

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like that, eighteen nineteen. It's
been eighteen years because I came to Heritage

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in March of two thousand and six, and we hung out at a retreat

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in Jane of two thousands. Oh
yeah, yeah, yeah wow, Okay,

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yeah yeah, so like eighteen years. And one one of my favorite

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things about Chris, just on a
surface level, is he's very clever and

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quick, and it's rare that I
find somebody that's as clever and as quick

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as I am. So Chris regularly
puts me in my place, catches me

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and it just makes me laugh.
So that's one of them. The other

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one is Chris's heart and passion for
getting the Gospel to people who don't know

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Jesus is a really big one,
right, and making the what we teach

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be as as understandable as possible.
So those two things, and then man,

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he's a real family man, real
family man. So those are the

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things I love about Chris. All
right. So but don't tell him,

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Erica, don't don't don't tell him
that I said that. All right,

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Here's what I would say. I
would say, You've got a super big

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compassionate heart for people. Well,
and it's and it's oftentimes people that you

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have uh no responsibility to have compassion
on, you know, So like you

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you would hear a situation about a
person and you feel ownership for that person.

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And uh, I've seen you do
it many times. You did it

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with me, uh you've done it
with staff members. I've seen you do

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it with with a fellow people in
in ministry, where you just have a

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super big heart for them and want
to help them and take care of them.

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So I think that that is that's
huge. And then also I would

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say, uh, I know,
I know and then I would also say,

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uh, you are very uh uh. I've not seen too many people

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willing to uh. I don't know
how to say it without saying it like

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like, uh, you brought me
on staff and gave gave me a lot

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of your responsibilities and a lot of
the things that you love, which means

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like there's there's humility there, there's
a there's a no ego kind of a

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thing, and you're willing to let
me shine. And I think that that

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is really rare. I think that's
really really rare. We've we've only seen

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that. I think I think I've
only seen that a couple of times in

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my whole life, where somebody is
really willing to say, hey, I'm

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secure enough, you know, I'm
okay to have somebody come in and shine

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bright uh And I'm okay with that. So so yeah, there's there's a

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lot of there's a lot in there. There's like there's a lot of humility.

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And the third thing I was I
would say is you're really open to

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changing your mind. And even though
that you debate well and and a lot

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of people won't won't argue with you, right, and they're just like,

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hey, it's just a losing battle
for you for you to just talk with

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Jeff. And that's true because you
debate. Well, I would say,

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the other thing is, but as
long as you're willing to hang. I've

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seen you some times ago. Okay, I changed my mind. You've convinced

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me, and so you were very
willing to do that. So there you

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go. Well I think that as
a compliment. Yeah, good, well,

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thank you, Chris. Yeah,
that's nice. That felt really gross

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the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't make us do that

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again. Yeah, And then we've
just been we've been buddies for a second.

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The joy out of the room exactly, ruining the whole day. But

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we've been buddies for quite a while. Everything that we ever did before we

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started working together full time, we
always had fun. It was just we'd

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stay up too late. We'd be
you know, laughing a lot and at

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the same time strategizing, trying to
figure out how to make a difference,

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whether you know, we were in
Cuba, we were in Kenya or different

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places, you know, working on
stuff. And then if you don't know,

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there's a secret video out there somewhere. For my tenth anniversary, Chris

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did one of the most brutal roasts
for me in front of about my mom

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and add my wife and my children
and about one hundred of my friends on

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our tenth anniversary years at the request
of Chasmine. Okay, Chad, Chad.

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Chad is the one who brought me
in and he told me to go

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full on. It was brutal.
So, uh, there's a lot of

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that. We just we have a
lot of fun together, and I think

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it's just really great too. I
think we have a relationship. I don't

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know what your relationship like you with
your brothers is, but my relationship with

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you is like my relationship with my
brothers, right, just constantly busting each

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other's chops and laughing, but really
significant. So yeah, it's fun.

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I decided a long time ago that
we would be better together than apart.

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At least I would be better with
you on the team. So yeah,

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that's awesome. Okay, let's stop
that. Yeah right, let's move on

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God's work. Like I said,
Erica is so unbelievably presumptuous that we had

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nice things to say about it.
What the heck? Yeah? Yeah,

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all right, well, hey,
today we're going to talk about he likes

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long walks on the beach Erica.
That's right, that's right. And puppies.

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He loves puppies and long walks on
the beach. Okay, so so

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today Matthew twenty three, I actually
do like both of those. Yes,

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I know. Okay. Do you
like long walks in the beach? No?

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I hate walking in the sand?
Hate it? Do you? Yeah?

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Yeah, yeah, I like to
go to the beach and they sit

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out. Yeah no, not me, man. I walk the coast.

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You know where the shoreward it hits
the beach, you know where it's packed,

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it's more a little bit more solid. Well, I'm an extrovert.

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Yeah, yeah, so I love
it. I like to go talk to

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peopeople watching. No, not necessarily
walking over and talking to people, because

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they're all wearing bathing suits, that's
weird, but just two people watch and

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then you know, hear the ocean, all that stuff. I like.

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When we're to the beach. My
wife usually rents a cabana. Yeah.

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We kind of pull it up,
block ourselves out from everybody else and just

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enjoy the water. Yeah. So, anyways, Matthew, Chapter twenty three,

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verse thirteen, Jesus is again challenging
these religious leaders. Last couple of

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days last week. Yep, he
was busting their chops a little bit.

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Yeah, and then they quit asking
him questions, so he pivots. Now,

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well, he knows the end is
near, and he's not holding back

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any punches. Right, Well,
he wants to. He's trying to shake

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the people off of their old premises
and one of the things that most of

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their life premises were built around these
religious leaders. So here goes. He

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says this in verse thirteen of chapter
twenty three of Matthew. What sorrow awaits

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you, teachers of religious law,
you pharisees, hypocrites, For you shut

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the door of the Kingdom of God
in people's faces. You won't go in

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yourselves, and you don't let others
enter either. What sorrow awaits you,

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teachers of religious law? And you
Pharisees, you hypocrites, for you cross

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land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into

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twice the child of hell that you
yourselves are, you blind guides. What

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sorrow awaits you, for you say
that it means nothing to swear by God's

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temple, but that it is binding
to swear by the gold in the temple,

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blind fools? Which is more important
the gold or the temple that makes

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the gold sacred. And you say
that to swear by the altar is not

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binding, but to swear by the
gifts on the altar is binding. How

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blind, for which is more important, the gift on the altar or the

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altar that makes the gift sacred.
When you swear by the altar, you're

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swearing by it and everything on it. And when you swear by the temple,

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you are swearing by it and by
God who lives in it. And

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when you swear by Heaven, you're
swearing by the throne of God and by

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God who sits on the throne.
What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law,

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and you pharisees hypocrites, For you
are careful to tithe even the tiniest

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income from your herb gardens, but
you ignore the more important aspects of the

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law, justice, mercy, and
faith. You should tithe, yes,

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but do not neglect the more important
things. Blind guides. You strain your

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water so you won't accidentally swallow a
gnat, but you swallow a camel.

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What sorrow awaits you you teach as
a religious law, and you pharisees hypocrites

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for you are so careful to clean
the outside of the cup and the dish,

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but inside your filthy, full of
greed and self indulgence. You blind

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Pharisee, First wash the inside of
the cup and the dish, and then

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the outside will come clean too.
What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law,

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and you Pharisees hypocrites, For you
are like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on

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the outside, but filled on the
inside of the dead people's bones and all

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sorts of impurity. Outwardly you look
like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts

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are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.
What sorrow awaits you, teachers are religious

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law, and you Pharisees hypocrites,
For you build tombs of the prophets your

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ancestors killed, and you decorate the
monuments of the godly people your ancestors destroyed.

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Then you say, if we had
lived in the days of our ancestors,

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we would never have joined them in
killing the prophets. But in saying

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that, you testify against yourselves that
you are indeed the descendants of those who

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murdered the prophets. Go ahead and
finish what your ancestors started. Snakes sons

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of vipers. How will you escape
the judgment of hell? Therefore, I'm

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sending you prophets and wise men and
teachers of religious law. But you will

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kill some by crucifixion, and you
will flog others with whips and your synagogues,

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chasing them from city to city.
As a result, you will be

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held responsible for the murder of all
godly people of all time, from the

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murder of righteous Able to the murder
of Zachariah, son of Barachia, whom

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you killed in the temple between the
sanctuary and the altar. I tell you

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the truth. This judgment will fall
on this very generation. That was so

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gee. I wonder how Jesus feels
about the Pharisees. Yeah, super,

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super harsh. Hey, if this
was on Facebook, he typed that entire

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thing in caps no kidding, no
kidding, or Twitter or whatever. That

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is unbelievable, man, he went
after it. Yeah, and uh,

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you know, and again we talked
about this just last week. But uh,

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you know the idea that that you
know that there was no good in

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the Pharisees, you know, and
I don't give them credit. Uh,

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and you you just said, hey, it could have been that they thought,

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you know, that they didn't have
to have their whole heart being a

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good person. They just had to
follow the law and I and I received

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that. But Jesus here is clearly
saying, yeah, some really harsh things.

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Okay, first, running people's lives
is what he's saying. Yeah,

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he's saying, he's saying, you're
like I think the worst one was,

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you're like whitewashed tombs, right,
You're you're you're white on the outside.

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Uh, and yet you're full of
dead man's bones on the inside. Holy

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Christmas. And then snakes vipers,
and then you know, hypocrites. Hypocrites

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seem to be a theme. Yeah, right, yeah, hypocrites, they

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always say, hypocrites. Yeah.
I'm watching The Chosen right now. And

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did you know that as of right
now, I just heard yesterday that Chosen

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season four. I guess maybe the
I don't even know, but somebody invited

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me and said, hey, it's
season fours at the theaters right now.

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We just finished season three, my
wife and I both and uh, and

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just in case I got to put
a caveat because everybody probably around the world

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knows The Chosen, The Chosen is
not straight gospel. Uh, so the

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reason why they call it I believe. I think this is true. I

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think the reason why they call it
the Chosen, my brother told me,

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is because he unpacks the lives of
those that Jesus chose, right. So

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it's like, so it's like everybody
he chose to heal, everybody he chose

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to, you know, follow him. What they do is they sort of

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suppose what it must have been like. So if there's only just like a

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sentence of saying, Jesus heals the
blind man, that's it. That's all

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it says. What they do is
they sort of create a story of like

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they show this blind man, you
know, what it must have been like,

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and all these things happen to him, and they give them a name,

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you know, hey Bill, you
know whatever, and then and then

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all of a sudden, by the
time he gets to Jesus, uh,

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you know, and then and then
Jesus heals him, you feel, uh,

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the of what it must have been
like, Like, you know,

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we read it and go, oh
cool, that must have been great for

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that man to receive a site.
But it's like, no, you don't

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understand. It's life changing and that's
what that's really what the Chosen. Does

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they'll they'll make half an episode over
three sentences, yes, right when it

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seems like a meaningful story. Yes, and so that's what they do.

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And and uh and honestly what ends
up happening is uh for me anyway,

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for me, Uh, it actually
makes a lot of sense theologically. The

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guy who makes the Chosen, Dallas
Jank, I think, has a lot

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of theological grit to him. And
I think that he sort of puts together

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and makes sense a lot of these
conversations in context. And honestly, un

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even the ones that are straight Bible, you know, like you just read

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the entire conversation straight in the Bible, and all of a sudden, all

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of a sudden, when he puts
context around it, I'm like, man,

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I understand that so much. Anyway, all that to say this when

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I unfortunately, when I hear this
speech by Jesus, all I see is

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the actor for the Chosen, so
you envisioned Jesus, I totally can see

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the actor going hypocrites right and then
and then turning around and looking at the

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crowd. And and you know,
I'm sort of wired that way by movies.

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And uh, and I'm telling you, uh, this must have been

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an uprising, right, so we
can't read it here, but try to

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imagine, like, try to be
dramatic with it, try to be uh,

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you know, use your imagination of
how the pharisees around him must have

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reacted. And I'm telling you this
would have been this would have been probably

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one of the most harsh things up
to Jesus ministry at this point. And

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it's interesting because he talks about at
the very beginning, you shut the door

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of the Kingdom of Heaven and people's
faces. You won't go in yourselves,

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and you don't let others enter either. That's his frustration. Then he just

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goes off on them. So by
the time he gets done, if the

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Pharisees didn't want to kill him before
this, right, he does this.

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Remember he's teaching in the temple every
day. This is likely happening in the

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courts of the Temple. Yeah,
and right, their whole job was to

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bring others to God, right,
right in their mind, that's what they

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thought, right, And he's saying
the opposite, right. Well, he

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says, you cross land and sea
to make one convert, and then you

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turn that person into twice the child
of Hell. You you selves are I

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take it back. That's the worst
comment. That's the worst comment. Yes,

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and then he calls them blind guides
all these things. So there's a

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note in the Life Application Study Bible
Matthew twenty three thirteen says being a religious

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leader in Jerusalem was very different from
being a pastor in secular society today.

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Israel's history, their culture, and
their daily life centered around its relationship with

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God. The religious leaders were the
best known, most powerful, and most

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respective of all leaders. Jesus made
these stinging accusations because the leaders hunger more

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for power, money and status had
made them lose sight of God, and

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their blindness was spreading with the whole
nation. Right, that's why he's going

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after them. So it's not like
he's just going after a couple of preachers

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down the street. You don't even
know the pastor down the name, down

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the street from your subdivision or something
probably. But then the religious leaders were

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the stars. They were the stars
of society. And so what he said

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is, you guys are the ones
that are building this religious system that is

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taking people away from God instead of
drawing them to them. And then the

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reason why you know that is because
by the time you get to the end.

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What he's saying is, I'm going
to be sending more prophets, more

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preachers to you, and you're going
to kill them too. Right, so

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you went after the people who are
preaching the truth, whether and you mentioned

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Zechariah. He mentions even all the
way from Able, but he gets to

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Zechariah, which is one of the
last prophets that was killed. He was

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killed in the temple where probably where
Jesus is preaching, although you know,

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between the sanctuary and the altar,
and he's going, I'm going to send

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you some more prophets, and you're
going to kill them too, because you

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hate the Word of God and you
hate anything that challenges the construct that you

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have of this religion. And so
he goes on, he comments, he

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compliments them in many ways. You
tithe, you strain your water. So

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a gnat was an unclean bug.
So they would literally pour their water through

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filters to make sure they didn't accidentally
get a bug in their you know,

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little tiny net in their drink because
they didn't want to be unclean. And

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so they were convinced that the rules
of the law were the point. Those

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are the point, not a relationship
with God, not knowing God, not

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having God permeate all of your life. The rules of God permeated their life,

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and that's why they were clean on
the inside, and they were I

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mean on the outside, and they
were completely dead on the inside. He

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mentions, you're like a washed cup, but on the inside you're full of

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filth. You're like a whited sepulcher. You're all clean on the outside,

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painted, all pretty on the outside, this beautiful tomb. Have you ever

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gone to a fancy cemetery and looked
at all the fancy things? Oh?

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Yeah. So my wife and I
several years ago, are children hated hiking.

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So I love being out in nature. Kids hated it. So we

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found this thing is called letterboxing,
letterboxing dot org or whatever, Atlas Quest.

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There's a couple of different websites,
but there's hundreds of thousands of these

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these basically scavenger hunt kind of things. You have to use clues and all

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this stuff. So one day we
were getting ready to it was my wife's

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birthday and she wanted to go away. We didn't have a lot of money,

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so I didn't have a lot of
money go do something, So I

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just drew a five hour circle around
our house, and it turns out and

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I was just looking for where it's
going to be the nicest weather, and

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it turned out it with Cincinnati.
So I'm looking around trying to figure out

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this letterboxing thing. Hey, we
could do that. That's free. I'll

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just get a hotel. We'll drive
down and spend two days. And it

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turns out the second largest cemetery in
the US is in Cincinnati. Well,

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and there are some super famous people. Procter and Gamble are both buried there,

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and they have these huge monuments.
There's I think there's a former president,

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there's governors, there's generals, are
all buried there. It's really a

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big deal. And they have these
massive, massive monuments, right, and

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huge sepulchers, and they build these
big buildings. It's really a magnificent kind

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of a place. And so we
spent like two days in that and it

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was funny We're going around taking pictures
of where dead people are, right,

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because you just get so sucked in
to look how beautiful these things are.

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And it just reminded me but on
the inside, we wouldn't want to see

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anything on the inside, right,
Right, it was just how incredibly ornate

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and fancy it was on the outside. That's exactly what Jesus is trying to

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say, is you're so beautiful and
fancy on the outside. You look great,

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you look like you're right, and
you're completely dead inside spiritually. That's

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awesome. Yeah, and well it's
an awesome challenge. Yeah. I mean,

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like the imagery I'm so impressed with
is why I said awesome, Right,

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Yeah, like Jesus is able to
use snakes, he's able to use

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sepulchers and tombs, he's able to
use camels and gnats. I mean all

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these different types of things. And
that's what I mean. It's like it's

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Jesus is awesome in these comparisons.
So, but yeah, you're right,

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it's not awesome. What I was
going to say is when he said you

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strain to not swallow a nap,
but you swallow a camel, it actually

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says see Leviticus eleven four and twenty
three, where gnats and camels are both

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forbidden as food. And so that
that helps to know what he's really saying

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is he's saying, you know,
you work so hard to pay attention to

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the little things, but you're neglecting
justice, mercy, and you know,

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and faith. And he's saying,
you swallow a camel. It's like,

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how could you be so you know, foolish as to swallow a camel.

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He's like, don't you understand what
you're actually doing? Right? Right?

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You're paying attention to these things and
you're neglecting these things. It's like you're

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swallowing your camel. I think that's
incredible imagery. Yeah. He's really challenging

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what's inside versus what's outside. And
he's not saying you shouldn't make sure the

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outside is right. Yeah. Right, he's saying that you shouldn't that.

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What you're doing is you're ignoring the
most important things. Justice, mercy,

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faith. Yeah. Right, So
there's it's interesting there's a few places in

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the Bible where it talks about the
most important things. We just read a

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couple days ago, the greatest commandments, Love God, love people. Right,

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what's the greatest commandments? When when
you look at all six hundred and

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seventeen laws, what's the greatest commandments? Love God, love people? Here,

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Jesus says, don't ignore the most
important things, right, justice,

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mercy, faith. Paul later on
writes, you know, there's only three

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things that are really going to last, faith, hope, and love.

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The greatest these things is love,
right, I really pay attention to those.

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Solomon said, the principal thing is
wisdom, So therefore get wisdom.

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Whenever you get these little lists like
that, just understand God is giving you

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a chance to kind of take a
glimpse at what is he really looking for?

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Right and this rate here, justice, mercy, and faith, those

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are all inside things. And maybe
a takeaway for an application for our listeners

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from this passages. We know some
people, don't we who like religiosity more

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than they do God himself. So
he says, you know, he says,

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you know what's gold? What's better
gold or the temple that makes the

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gold sacred? When you swear by
heaven, it's actually the throne of God.

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And so it's not these religious things
that you're a part of. It's

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God himself. And so a lot
of times we can we can like going

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to church. We could like on
the outside people seeing us go to church,

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but in the inside we have to
challenge ourselves and say, do we

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care about what's most important? Does
God have our heart on the inside?

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And I think that a lot of
times, you know, we could be

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that way. We can have a
show on the outside that God and not

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have our heart on the inside,
and that's really the heart of this.

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Wow, that's exactly it. All
right, Well, hey listen, that's

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our time and so we will see
you next time on the Bible. Guys,